Scott: Alright, everybody. Welcome back to the Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast, the unfiltered podcast for hockey parents. No politics, No sugarcoating. Just real talk for hockey parents in the trenches. Welcome back, JT.
Episode 50. Five zero.
Jamie: Five zero, dude.
Scott: That's what's up. Little nuts. Not gonna lie. Well 50? You know, every every every next one is Yeah.
Jamie: But 50 is milestone.
Scott: Yeah. Okay. For sure. Is it, like, in, like, podcast years? Is that, like
Jamie: I'm pretty sure we're gonna get a badge from our podcast hosting platform. I mean, I could be wrong, but I'm assuming we're gonna get something for you. Don't
Scott: wear the badge.
Jamie: Well, I don't know about that. That's kind of We'll post it.
Scott: We'll post it on the Gram.
Jamie: We have not posted any of
Bob: that stuff, by the way.
Scott: No. No. I mean, whatever.
Jamie: Yeah. No. No. But, man, 50. 50 is that's a big number.
Scott: Not solid.
Jamie: Yeah. They say most people don't get past three. Really? That's what they say.
Scott: It's a low bar, I think.
Jamie: I don't think this is as easy as people think it is.
Scott: I mean, three?
Jamie: Three, dude. They say the majority But don't get past
Scott: I'm not talking about quality. Meaning that like, anyway, okay. I hear you. I'm not taking away from us. Yes, 50 is great.
I'm 100% on board.
Jamie: Listen. I mean People don't get past three. And we're in 44 countries. Sorry. Sorry.
I was choking on the Yam and the gaming upstairs. Oh, really?
Scott: Yeah. Is that what that was?
Jamie: Yeah. Okay.
Scott: Yeah. It sounded like it.
Jamie: Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, man.
Scott: 50. You know what? It just makes me think we're we're almost at a year, which is it feels more impressive.
Jamie: Are three months shy of that. Yes. Yeah. Which is wild. Yeah.
We have to do something fun for our year, you know, the year anniversary.
Scott: You're like, what?
Jamie: I don't know. We need to come up with something, though. Maybe get you an Eric Lindroff jersey.
Scott: No. We need to get Eric on the podcast. Obviously, why not? Mister Lindros. You know?
Can't idol growing up. I'm I'm I was a defenseman. You don't
Jamie: have tell me. I'm well aware.
Scott: I played defense, I just wanted to be like Eric Lindros.
Jamie: Yes. You did. Well, you were also yeah. No. He was a big boy.
And you were a big boy.
Scott: He was unreal. It was good. I mean, if you go back and watch listen, it's there's there's plenty of great hockey players. If you go back and watch their clips that you haven't seen in a while, you're like, wow. But just that nineties hockey where it was like everything was finish your checks, Everything was just Scott
Jamie: Stevens. I mean
Scott: Dude, it's unreal.
Jamie: When we have Jim Dowd on the podcast we're having Jim Dowd on podcast too. When we have Jim Dowd on the podcast, we have to ask him about Scott Stevens. I'm just so curious to hear his thoughts about him, like, from behind the scenes.
Scott: Oh, well, I mean, that guy is a tall animal. There was Chickless was talking about Yes, iconic hockey photos. And it was on that segment now, RA's World. And Whit brought up viewers that there's a picture of after the Devils won one of their cups and Goldberg, I guess maybe he was in the locker room. I don't know if he was in the locker room or whatever.
There's a picture of Scott Stevens and Goldberg both without their shirts on at the cup. Oh, think I've seen that. And apparently Scott Stevens is just as Jack's as Goldberg. That's what Whitney said
Jamie: about pretty
Scott: big boy. No. No doubt.
Jamie: We're talking about the wrestler.
Scott: Yes. Okay. Mean, he was a pretty The point the point being is Scott Stevens was no slouch.
Jamie: No. He was no slouch. I'm trying to think. I wanna say, Randy Valczyk, who who was on those devil scenes.
Scott: No. He wasn't.
Jamie: He certainly was.
Scott: He was on the
Jamie: Randy Valichick?
Scott: He was on the cup winning he was still playing then?
Jamie: No. No. No.
Scott: I'm not
Jamie: saying he was on the cup winning teams, but I he knows Stevens. He knows those guys because
Scott: he was
Jamie: on the Devils for a while.
Scott: Yeah. I'm not
Jamie: sure if Randy was there for those
Scott: I don't think he was.
Jamie: I think you're right about that. But he told me a story about Scott Stevens right after they won the Cup. Everybody was out hanging out and drinking something like that, and he's in the parking lot running wind sprints.
Scott: Come on.
Jamie: That's what he told me.
Scott: No days off.
Jamie: It's the guy's fucking animal. Are you surprised? The guy's a freight train.
Scott: It's unreal. The level of obsession with some of these guys that which are just like you need to have to an extent to get another level.
Jamie: Yes. And he was at another level.
Scott: Yeah. He was. Mean, that guy was ferocious. I remember when the devils acquired him. Yeah.
That was, like, so unexpected.
Jamie: Yeah. Montreal? No. No, no, no. Who did acquire him
Scott: from? Capitals? Yeah, from the Capitals. Capitals. Yep, Why'd they trade him?
I forget the backstory, but that was a game changer. They had Martin Bordeaux, Scott Stevens. Mean, they had so many great
Jamie: Scott DeMeijer,
Scott: and they
Jamie: brought in like those teams
Scott: were great. There was Gomez. Gomez? The first cup in 'ninety five. Claud Lemieux was on the team.
Jamie: Claud Lemieux, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was Driver oh, Danico was on those teams?
Scott: No doubt.
Jamie: Yeah, nuts. I mean, those were some legit Devils teams. Hopefully, they get back there. Fingers crossed.
Scott: Not looking great. Not does not. That's for sure.
Jamie: Anyway Definitely doesn't look great.
Scott: All right. So we're back on the podcast.
Jamie: Yeah, man. Episode 50.
Scott: Yeah. Partners.
Jamie: Yes. Howie's hockey. Crazy 10.
Scott: Crazy.
Jamie: Go get your tape, laces, gear. Help me out here. Sweatshirts, candles. Scott's favorite, the candles. Yeah.
The wax. I mean, they they just have really cool stuff. The the scissors, by by the way, are, like, one of my favorite things. The yellow Very good. The yellow handle
Scott: They are very
Jamie: handle sizzles. The yellow Sizzles. Handle Sizzles. Scissors. Sizzles.
Yeah. So it's not easy. It's like a tongue twister. Yeah. It is.
Sure. The yellow handle scissors
Scott: Sizzles.
Jamie: Scissors are pretty legit. Not going to lie. Like, I feel like they need to be in an EMT's kit. They'll cut through anything.
Scott: They are good. I mean, I've only tried it on tape. I
Jamie: have tried on cloth. I've tried it. It's pretty good.
Scott: Remember those Ginsu commercials? The Ginsu knives where they would cut a soda can.
Jamie: Sinkutsu elbow thrust. Necessary roughness. Sorry.
Scott: Oh, that was so good.
Jamie: How meanwhile, how smoking was Kathy Ireland in that
Scott: movie? Oh, she was like a like a young teenage heartthrob that Kathy Ireland. So Lordy.
Jamie: There's some great lines in that movie, by
Scott: the way.
Jamie: Yeah. Show me the arm, son. Throw the ball, genius. She makes a muscle.
Scott: Kathy Ireland. She's lost from the past. Smooth Anyway show.
Jamie: Yeah. Sorry. Okay. So this
Scott: is So derailed. Just how know what's going on in my mind when I'm I'm I'm thinking of like the posters I had on my wall.
Jamie: Oh, I'm sure. I can guarantee I had multiple Kathy Island posters.
Scott: As you're trying to talk about tape and wax.
Jamie: I'm trying
Scott: to yeah. Know. Trust me. Post it.
Jamie: Yeah. Listen. I get it.
Scott: Anyway. I definitely get it.
Jamie: Yeah. So Howie's hockey, Crazy 10. Go get your tape, laces, gear, candles, wax, whole nine yards.
Scott: They have they
Jamie: have great of the swimsuit. Get your swimsuit issued from Hockey. Let let me know
Scott: what that looks like. It's like Howie the it's like
Jamie: Can you imagine? All different. This guy Yeah. Like in all different poses, like on
Scott: the Yeah. Beach Yeah.
Jamie: And like riding a horse and like,
Scott: don't know. Give me another one. Cowies do it. You hear it here first.
Jamie: Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Just give us credit.
Yeah. So yeah. So we have a little bit of change to some of our partners. So we don't have the Pro Stride Elite anymore, for Angelo and the power skating.
Scott: Still love them.
Jamie: Still love them, but don't use that anymore. Instead, we have, we have Titan Battle Gear.
Scott: Let's go.
Jamie: Which, if you guys are not familiar with Titan Battle Gear, you're going to hear the CEO on our podcast next week. Yep. Okay? Titan Battle Gear is a cut resistant base layer.
Scott: And apparel company.
Jamie: Yes, and an apparel company. But yes, they have sweatshirts and shorts and t shirts and stuff like that, yes. 100%. But their claim to fame is that they make cut resistant base layers that are some of the highest quality fabrics and materials out there.
Scott: Yep. It's on the market.
Jamie: Okay. So you guys are gonna hear from Andrew Stavillier, the CEO of Titan Battle Gear, next week. So we have a discount code for our listeners. If you use CrazyDads10 when you go to Titan Battle Gear, you'll get 10% off. We also have a link for our subscribers We'll put
Scott: it in the description.
Jamie: That we're gonna put in the description of all of our podcasts from now on. It is titanbattlegear.com/crazyhockeydads.
Scott: Let's go.
Jamie: So that's for all off. If if some of you are watching World Juniors, you will notice that some of the World Juniors players for The United States were wearing the Titan battle gear, their base layer, the blue base layer and the white base layer under their jerseys and stuff like that. Make listen, we all want to protect our children.
Scott: No doubt.
Jamie: Right? The most important thing. We spend tons of money in this game. This is something that I think that all of us parents need to buy for our children.
Scott: Yeah. And why this one? The Highest quality. And what does that really mean? That means a combination Safety.
It's a combination of coverage and protection
Jamie: in
Scott: terms of, like, the level of protection. And we'll learn more about that in the next not this week. Next week's episode. Yes. Yep.
So Titan Battle Gear.
Jamie: Yeah. Titan Battle Gear. Go check their website out. You will like what what they have to offer. It is the the highest protection base layer out on the market right now.
Yeah. Very impressive stuff. So you guys will hear more next week.
Scott: And it looks good to boot.
Jamie: It does look good. They did a very nice job with their colors. They have some very cool stuff. They did very well during Christmas. They sold out of a lot of stuff.
They're just starting to get some stuff back. I know the black is back in. They have a special USA hockey one with the USA Hockey logo on the chest.
Scott: Nice.
Jamie: That's pre order right now. So go check out Titan Battle Gear and use our code CRAZYDADS10 for 10 off.
Scott: Sweet.
Jamie: And then we have another partner that we're teaming up with. We're teaming up with Coach Kevin from hockeytraining.com. Hockeytraininghq is his Instagram. So you're gonna get some you're gonna you're gonna start to hear Kevin. We haven't really officially announced it yet.
Yeah. But you guys are gonna start to hear some stuff about hockeytraining.com and hockey training HQ coming shortly.
Scott: Let's go, coach Kevin.
Jamie: Yep. And
Scott: as always, athletic performance insight
Bob: Yeah.
Jamie: As always.
Scott: API. Any coaches, managers out there that are maybe looking to do some video review for your teams, have games broken down? I know we're the season is well underway, and we're probably on the back nine. Almost over. Definitely on the back nine.
Bob: Yeah. Sure.
Scott: But It's almost over. You know, I know that there are coaches that are already starting to think about next season. So if you wanna take a look at some options for video review and team analytics, go to athleticperformanceinsight.com. Eric, founder, owner, put together a fantastic platform that we're using over my son's team. And, use the contact form to reach out, and he'll happily break down the game for you at no cost.
I'm sure he'll
Jamie: be happy to
Scott: get on the a call with you, give you a tour of the the the platform. It's gotten super robust from you know, it's used from youth hockey up to the college ranks. It really can be used to its fullest potential or modified just for what you might need for the youth players. So athletic performance insight, API.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah, Eric's great. Dollars 100 value.
Scott: Dollars 100 value. Yep. Mention Crazy Hockey Dads.
Jamie: Mention Crazy Hockey Dads.
Scott: All right, partners.
Jamie: So how was your weekend?
Scott: Yo. My weekend?
Jamie: Your weekend was good. I was Everybody was home alone. I know you were.
Scott: All weekend. Was that kind of cool, by the way? I say this often. Well, I don't say it often. But whenever it does happen, I say that it's always better on paper.
You know, my so Otto and Orly were down in DC
Jamie: Right.
Scott: For Jay. You know, again, you know, it's like the DC tournament that's never in DC. You know
Jamie: It's like the Boston tournaments that never in Boston.
Scott: Oh, but they went to this place called the Saint James, which is like a facility down there for those of you that are in the New York, Connecticut area. I It sounds like it's Chelsea Piers, but like brand new and like they've got indoor pools and you know basketball courts That
Jamie: sounds awesome.
Scott: The eye can see and like indoor soccer fields that turn into football fields that have hockey So they were hanging out there in
Jamie: between games? They were
Scott: like, when you walk in this place, the only thing that comes to mind is just wow. Really? Yeah, it's down in Virginia somewhere, in any event. So they were down there.
Jamie: Nice.
Scott: Yeah. It's awesome. So saw of the four games they played, I saw like two and a half. And then I watched some of his shifts from the last game. They won the first one, lost the next three.
The last one sounds like one that they could have won. Okay. But overall, I got the impression that the kids played much better team game than they had been in the last couple weeks. But still Nice. You know, came up short on
Jamie: Okay. Few
Scott: It happens. Listen. It happens. Hey, listen. I think it was a great destination, for all the tournaments I'd ever gone to over the Mid Northeast or like Pittsburgh or Upstate New York or wherever, Ohio.
I haven't been down south. And it sounds like it was a really good Nice.
Bob: Okay.
Scott: Yeah. Ottawa, I'll say this for all the things that us parents can get on our kids for.
Jamie: Sure.
Scott: One thing that I think we all need to remember is that progress is not something that happens usually as fast as anyone wants it to happen.
Jamie: Really?
Scott: No. You don't think so? Progress at
Jamie: No. No. I'm I'm I'm with you.
Scott: No. Yeah. So I so I'm just saying. So there was in terms of his effort on the back check and you know, just there was a lot of positive signs.
Jamie: Right.
Scott: There were still plenty of things that it's like, oof, I thought we were past that one buddy, but we're not. And you know, still learning, still growing. It was a mixed bag, but I think there was more good to be seen than bad. Proud of him for making improvements in different areas. And it's unfortunate that they haven't necessarily strung together a lot of wins recently and it doesn't feel great to lose.
But I just tell them, listen, every time you're out there
Jamie: As long as he's developing.
Scott: Well, yeah. That's and there's a lot that goes into development, which we'll Yes, talk about very
Bob: we will.
Scott: But
Jamie: But I know what you mean.
Scott: You know, it's I don't know. It's it's I don't know what this this season is. I haven't
Jamie: You haven't evaluated it yet?
Scott: No. I just think I think this has been a tough season and I think that
Jamie: Okay. Fair.
Scott: That they I think that there's a lot of things that I wish Otto would oh, don't know. I would say it would have learned or had reinforced. I don't know. But nonetheless, I have nothing I can do about the past.
Jamie: True. Very true.
Scott: Anyway. So my weekend all in all was great. I was home alone.
Jamie: Got it.
Scott: How about you?
Jamie: My weekend, so we went up to Boston, which was not Boston. It was a Rhode Island, Foxborough.
Scott: It was like a Same state.
Jamie: Exactly. And can I just tell you, I have to break our manager's chops right now? So I get on him about picking hotels just because it's fun. Right? So he picks this Hampton Inn in Pawtucket, Rhode
Scott: Island.
Jamie: Never been to Pawtucket before. You?
Scott: Maybe drift through.
Jamie: Yeah. Gotcha. Alright. So so I I prepay the the we were there Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night, leaving Monday.
Scott: Yep.
Jamie: Because we could have had a game on Monday. Yep. Right? So we leave I don't know what time we left. We left around, like, I don't know, four something.
So we kinda we got there. We stopped. So we got there when it's dark. Mhmm. So we pull off the highway, and I was like, okay.
Pulled to a traffic light and there's a check cashing place to my right. Yeah. Nancy goes, Jamie? She goes she goes, if you had to prepay this thing, I'd be staying in Downtown Providence right now.
Scott: Downtown.
Jamie: At the Marriott. Yeah, downtown. Because you should always stay downtown. There's no reason to stay in the middle of nowhere.
Scott: That's your number one rule.
Jamie: There's no reason why. Nothing to do in the middle of nowhere. Zero.
Scott: It's true. Zero. There's more affordable hotels further afar. Fair.
Jamie: However, this was not cheap because it was a stay and play.
Scott: Yeah, it's fucked.
Jamie: Right? That's all we'll get on to that stay and play shit over time. But I will say this. The hotel was clean. The staff was lovely.
Like, the staff was lovely. Like, they really were all of them were lovely. The staff was lovely. The hotel was clean. It was in a shithole area.
But the but the staff was was lovely. Hotel was extremely clean. And the Mexican restaurant that was attached to it Yeah. Food was tremendous, by the way.
Scott: Oh, so that's good.
Jamie: Tremendous. Yeah. Like, bar, good drinks.
Scott: What So you complaining about? Nothing. There was in downtown?
Jamie: I'm not I'm not really The
Scott: check cashing place? What are you what are you trying to say. Check cashing place. Yeah? Yes.
It was a rougher neighborhood?
Jamie: It was a little shaky.
Scott: A little rougher of a neighborhood? Is that what you're trying
Jamie: to say? It little shaky. I was curious if my vehicle was gonna be there in the morning.
Scott: Listen. If you had a check that needed to be cashed, you were in the right spot, dude.
Jamie: Listen. If I needed one cashed, it was extremely convenient right across the
Scott: That's what I'm saying.
Jamie: Extremely convenient right across the way. Extremely. Very convenient. So I just break my our manager's chops because and I and I was breaking his chops because you have to break his chops because it's just fun. But no.
It was clean. The staff was lovely. It was actually a nice Just in a little bit of a questionable area.
Scott: Okay, well, that happens.
Jamie: Yeah, so we were there for a hockey tournament. It was fun. Played some good teams. We were put in a of in a AAA division.
Scott: Oh, good.
Jamie: So that was fun. Played some solid teams, Canadian team, that our parents their parents and our kids kind of gotten a little bit of a brawl at the end of game.
Scott: Oh, that's brilliant.
Jamie: You know, by the way, did you know that if a kid gets off the bench when there's a fight on the ice and the kid gets off of the bench Mhmm. Did you know that he could be suspended?
Scott: Sure.
Jamie: You did? Sure. Even if the game's over?
Scott: Well, okay. So I'll say that even if the game's over, like, the final whistle had blown. Like, in youth hockey, they don't have referees telling you when you can exit the bench. Like, they have that in, like, pros and maybe even college when they signal, like, you can go. They don't have that at youth hockey.
So So if the game's over and my kid jumped, like, on the ice, reasonable.
Jamie: So the game ended
Scott: Like, the whistle blew. Done and dusted.
Jamie: Game's over. Game ended. And, like, five of the Canadian kids were, like, pounding, like, one of our kid in the corner. I mean, like, the kid was laying face down on the ice and was just getting, like, jacked up from a couple dudes.
Scott: Yeah. K? What what what what why? What happened before that?
Jamie: Listen. We beat them, and they were probably mad. The Canadian Canadian team's losing to a US team. They were not happy. Yeah.
Right? So and I heard they they had some issues leading up to this game. Like, had three kids suspended. Like, there was some stuff here.
Scott: Alright. They're a rough group.
Jamie: Yeah. Something was was something was something happened previously. Right? Matter of fact, the parents of I'm assuming the game that they got into it, where they got three kids suspended, the parents of the opposite team
Scott: Yeah.
Jamie: Were in our stands cheering for us and, like, screaming.
Scott: Oh, really?
Jamie: Oh my god. Like, so something happened between those
Scott: two kids. Yeah.
Jamie: Got it. The end of game ends, and our kid is getting lit up in the there was three kids on the ice. The three forwards. Right? One kid's faced literally facedown, like, just laying there and getting pounded.
So Dominic skates over there Yep. And starts to, like, push people
Scott: Get involved.
Jamie: Yeah. And starts to push people off and stuff like that. The coach, actually, the coach of the team, of the Canadian team, he actually went to the front desk and tried to get us disqualified.
Scott: Because Dom was on the ice? Did any of his other anyone else from his team get on the ice?
Jamie: Well, they all got on the ice because the game was over.
Scott: So why was Dom singled out?
Jamie: Because Dom went over to the melee Oh. And started pushing people off of his teammate who was faced down on the ice.
Scott: That's interesting.
Jamie: Yeah. But they tried to get us disqualified.
Scott: And how'd that go?
Jamie: It didn't work.
Scott: Wow. Good. Yeah. But that's crazy. Why was it what are the what are the refs doing this whole time?
Were they not there trying to pull So kids
Jamie: the refs were there. And it's funny. You actually see on Live Barn. You see the refs are both here against the glass. Or they're trying to the glass is in front of them.
And right behind is one of our kids. And the kid saw that both refs were looking that way. And he cross checks the shit out of our kid from behind. Oh,
Scott: no way.
Jamie: Oh, yeah, dude. Such a cheap
Scott: shot. So the refs were so I'm sorry. I just didn't
Jamie: realize. The refs were dealing with other stuff here, like Dominic and three of the kids and the kid laying face down, and another kid was behind the refs.
Scott: Realizing of our he crushed right in the back.
Jamie: Like, high up on the shoulders.
Scott: That parent group must be fucking stellar.
Jamie: Dude, that it was it was in in Mississauga. They're from Mississauga.
Scott: I remember I played against the Mississauga team in Lake Placid years ago. The Mississauga Mississauga Rebels
Jamie: Listen. It was. This was the Mississauga Rattlers.
Scott: Oh, okay.
Jamie: Yeah. And listen. I'm not saying that there's I'm sure there's lovely people in Mississauga.
Scott: Yeah. But not this group.
Jamie: Listen. I was talking to one of the dads kind of like before our last game and their last game.
Scott: Yeah. You're like, dude, what the fuck?
Jamie: Well, you know you know what happened? Like, I was standing, like, in the lobby just on my phone. Yeah. And he he was he was going into the other rink, and he says to one of his other buddies, he's like, dude, he's like, that Vermont team is playing that same team. They're gonna lose by 20 goals.
I look at him. I go, I sure hope not. He's talking about our team. He's like, they're gonna lose by 20 goals.
Scott: Same with it. Your team was gonna lose by 20?
Jamie: He obviously didn't know that I was a parent Right. Of kid on that team. He's like, that Saints team is gonna lose by, like, 20 goals.
Scott: And what'd you say
Bob: to him?
Jamie: I I go, I hope not. And then he he was a little embarrassed that I, you know, kinda, you know, caught him saying that.
Scott: Yeah.
Jamie: So he went into the rink, and then he came out and he started talking to me. Was actually a stand up dude.
Scott: Oh, yeah? Yeah. And what did he have to say for him and his lot?
Jamie: I mean, listen, he's they were frustrated because they got into a new team and their their three kids got suspended, yada yada yada.
Scott: So why not just get more kids suspended? Like, what the fuck?
Jamie: Listen, they were a rough bunch. Not that not not all of them, but a bunch of them. You know? Some of parents were one of our parents said something they should not have said either. Like, parents
Scott: Just keep your mouth shut.
Jamie: I'm just gonna throw this out there. If a child says something like, you cannot say something to a child. Like, you can't. I I don't care what that kid does. I don't care if he flips you the bird.
I don't care if he tells tells you to fuck yourself. You cannot say something to a child. You just can't. An adult cannot say something. You just can't.
Like, you gotta shut your mouth. You just can't. Like, stop it. Like, come on.
Scott: So a parent on your team said something to one of their kids? I'm not sure. Was it the parent of the kid who was face down getting pummeled?
Jamie: It was.
Scott: There. Okay. 100% was. This. Yep.
That's obvious.
Jamie: A 100% was. Yes. But, like, you can't say anything to a kid. I don't care what they say to you. I don't care what you cannot an adult cannot say something to a 13 year old child.
Scott: And what did they say?
Jamie: I can't repeat it.
Scott: Oh, fair. Because
Jamie: Listen. Listen. It got a little, you know, but you can't say anything. It was on both sides. You can't do that.
Scott: Yikes. So it sounds like it was eventful.
Jamie: It was eventful. Yeah? It was eventful. So, yes. That was the only team we wound up beating.
We did not lose by 20 goals in the finals.
Scott: You only beat them on the scoreboard, apparently.
Jamie: Oh, we beat the Canadian team two-one. Yeah. We beat them.
Scott: Sounds like they beat you off the scoreboard, though.
Jamie: We lost our yeah. I don't know. Maybe. We lost our last game to a Vermont team, the one that the guy
Scott: By 20 goals?
Jamie: No. We lost three-zero.
Scott: Okay.
Jamie: And the last one was an empty netter.
Scott: Okay. All right. It was
Jamie: a good Respectful. Yeah. They were a good hockey team. We hit the post late in the game. The Catamounts?
The Catamounts, correct.
Scott: Yeah.
Jamie: It was a good
Scott: game. It
Jamie: was a good game.
Scott: Doesn't Matt Miles coach one of those teams?
Jamie: Oh, I don't know. Does he? From Exposure?
Scott: Maybe. Oh, I didn't know that. Nice. He's in Vermont. He's in Vermont.
Jamie: Right? He's I thought
Scott: he's in I think he might. I I I could be mistaken.
Jamie: Oh, isn't that funny if he was, like, behind the bench, and I didn't even know it?
Scott: Could've been. I would a triple a tournament.
Jamie: Yeah. It was.
Scott: It could've been.
Jamie: Yeah. So we got moved up into a triple a bracket, and the teams were good. We went one and three.
Scott: Alright. That's great, man.
Jamie: Yeah. No. Listen. The hockey was good, so no complaints.
Scott: Awesome.
Jamie: You know? So that was cool. And Yeah. I have a funny story for the weekend.
Scott: Let me
Jamie: know let me know when you wanna hear it an hour later.
Scott: It's up to you. You wanna keep going?
Jamie: You tell me. You want me to tell Keep after I
Scott: keep going.
Jamie: You want me? Okay.
Scott: Yeah. Just yeah. Round it up.
Jamie: Alright. So there's a back door to our hotel. So you could park in the front or you could park in the very back. Yep. Okay?
And the back door, we were on the 5th Floor. The back door was close to the larger elevator.
Scott: Okay.
Jamie: Okay? So the guy when we walked in and my buddy Rich, who worked at the at the Hampton in Pawtucket. Shout out Rich. Rich is a great dude, by the way.
Scott: Let's go Rich.
Jamie: Yeah. Rich is a good dude. So Rich when we first checked in, Rich was like, listen. You're never gonna get the luggage cart up the regular elevators. Go around the back.
The elevator's bigger. He's like, my sister-in-law wouldn't fit in our regular sized elevators. I was like, okay, Rich. I was like, we started using the rear elevators.
Scott: Okay.
Bob: So he
Jamie: said, you park in the rear, you come to the door, the back door, and you use those elevators. So as you walk in the back door, you walk into a hallway, and there's a room directly in front of you.
Scott: Okay.
Jamie: So you go through the glass door, and it's one of the ones where you put your key card in, open the door, and you're literally staring at Room 164. My point is that There's a
Scott: room right there, 12:00.
Jamie: Right in front
Scott: of you. Okay?
Jamie: So so Dominic and I Dominic and I left the game on Saturday. We went to the Providence first Boston College game at Providence.
Scott: Awesome.
Jamie: My wife took Luca, my older one, back to the hotel.
Scott: Okay.
Jamie: Okay? So, she comes in the back door. Okay? And apparently, the smoke alarm was going off in the room directly across the hall.
Scott: Okay.
Jamie: Okay? Because the door was open, okay? Okay. And the person was, I would say frantic was how she described it, a little frantic. Okay.
Because they what happened is is they were steaming their pants. Okay? Okay. So obviously, like, the shower was was on. Right?
So they were steaming their pants. Yeah. And they were because you have to have wrinkle free pants. So they're steaming their pants, and, and the person has the door open, and he's fanning the smoke detector in his room because it's going off.
Scott: Why is it going off?
Jamie: Because the steam rose and is now setting the alarm off.
Scott: Why would steam set off a
Jamie: smoke alarm? I don't know, Scott. I'm just telling you
Scott: what the story fucking steam alarm.
Jamie: I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. The funny part about it was this gentleman who my wife and older son walked into because they're coming in the door. So so he's he's directly ahead of them, like, eight feet. Right?
He's standing in the door with the door open in his underwear. And and a t shirt fanning the thing.
Scott: Listen. I yeah?
Jamie: One of our coaches. So Nancy's like so he sees Nancy Yeah. And panics. Right? Dives behind the door.
The door shuts, and she's like, you alright? You okay?
Scott: Dude, why wouldn't you just turn off the shower?
Jamie: I'm just telling you the situation. And then what makes it even what makes it even funnier is it So we come home from the game and I, I go back, I go to a bunch of parents were in the lobby having drinks. So I go down there and. And this coach never speaks to me. I mean, like never ever speaks to me.
Okay. So he came up to me and he's like and he starts asking me, he's like, did you guys go to the the Providence BC game? I'm like, yeah. We did. Yeah.
Dude, I'm telling you right now, he has not said five words to me in two fucking years. Yeah. And he all of a sudden, he's, like, talking to me. And I thought it was odd at first. I'm like, why is he, like
Scott: Like, where is
Jamie: this coming all from? Of a sudden, you're striking up a conversation with me. I've only known you for two seasons. Right. Or, like, a season and seven eights.
Scott: Right. So why now?
Jamie: Like, all of a sudden, like, you wanna have a like, standing in the with me in lobby chatting me up. Was like, oh, okay. He's a and he's a great dude. Don't get me wrong. Okay.
So I'm like I'm like, I'm like, I don't don't get it. So then he goes upstairs, right, and then the other coach comes up to me he's like he tells me what happened, I'm like holy shit. I'm like that's why he's fucking sitting there chatting me up.
Scott: Why would that motivate him to
Jamie: talk to Clearly he's uncomfortable that that my wife saw him in his underwear, which is I don't give a shit.
Scott: Yeah. But
Jamie: He was clearly very uncomfortable. It's so weird. I mean, listen. So so I'm so I'm blowing him up on the podcast because it's funny as fuck.
Scott: That is funny.
Jamie: So listen. He's a great dude. So I'm giving you a shout out, coach. It was very funny. My wife is still fucking dying about it.
She told all of her coworkers that I work, which she went
Scott: back to work. Wanted the steam alarm thing.
Jamie: Fanning fanning the smoke detector in his underwear, and Nancy just happened to walk in, and and and then he obviously saw her and panicked.
Bob: He's like,
Jamie: oh, shit. And slammed the door. Yes. There you go. Guys, if your alarm goes off
Scott: turn off the shower.
Jamie: Or be more aware of your surroundings when you're fanning the smoke alarm.
Scott: That or just
Jamie: Keep the door open.
Scott: Don't don't just be like, How Just chill.
Jamie: Funny is that, dude? One of our coaches.
Scott: That is funny.
Jamie: Die dude, dying. Absolutely dying. Say yes. That was funny. So it it was a fun weekend.
Scott: That's awesome, man.
Jamie: Yeah. Was a time.
Scott: Good stuff. Yeah, man. Alright. Well, listen. Let's why don't we dive into the interview?
So Let's. So today, we have for the second time
Jamie: Second time.
Scott: Bob Mancini from USA Hockey.
Jamie: Yeah, man.
Scott: Yeah. Unreal conversation. James, why don't you don't you share what the the meat and potatoes is about?
Jamie: So we wanted to have him on because of the new USA Hockey Developmental League that is coming shortly. Okay? For those of you who don't know, there is a developmental league coming from USA Hockey, which is going to be kind of on top of the pyramid as far as Tier one, Tier two. It's going to be Bob calls it another level, right, of of elite hockey. Yeah.
Okay? They're gonna pick 32 teams, and Bob will explain on the interview. You guys will hear it. They're gonna pick 32 teams from across the country. And these 32 teams will play against each other and will play, like, prep schools, Bob mentioned, other high schools and other tier one, you know, other tier one teams.
But it is different than your triple a hockey. It isn't above
Scott: It is above triple a hockey.
Jamie: Above triple a hockey. Yep. Okay? So there's a lot of misconceptions out there, a lot of false information flying around. So we wanted to have Bob on to explain this
Scott: Right.
Jamie: To our listeners so you guys know exactly what's going on out there. Okay? Because this this new developmental league that's coming down from USA Hockey is I mean, I see why they're doing it. It makes sense to me. Yeah.
You know? It's gonna add another pathway. It's gonna add another level, you know, to to to youth hockey. And and, really, USA Hockey was worried about it watering. They were worried about the watering down of triple a, double a, and single a hockey.
This should help that a little bit.
Scott: Yeah. And and the the the big the biggest takeaway that I took from this was, you know, the the that it's meant to work with the other leagues. And he used the expression that all ships rise with the tide. Right? And that
Jamie: Right. Rising tide lifts all boats.
Scott: Yeah. Well, know, version of that expression
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. I know what mean.
Scott: That the introduction of this should also, you know, in the tier one side of things, also, you know, raise those ships as well. And Yeah. There's a lot of takeaways that or a lot of things they're implementing that they're hoping will spread throughout more of tier one. And Yeah. You know, I think you know, I I I won't share more.
I'll let let Bob talk But it was great to bring him on here to go over the developmental league that's upcoming. And, yeah, really, really glad that he had the time and willingness to to chat with us about it.
Jamie: Yeah. It was great. We were going to release Andress Devilia from Titan Battle Gear today, but this kind of fell into our lap, and it's pretty pertinent information right now with what's going on. So we wanted you guys to kind of hear this and hopefully hear it first.
Scott: Yeah. And if if anyone hasn't To clarify. Yeah. If anyone hasn't listened to our previous pod with Bob Mancini
Jamie: Oh, god.
Scott: He is the assistant executive director of hockey development at USA Hockey, oversees youth hockey, coaching education, officiating education, and player safety nationwide. He's fantastic. So he is very big part of USA Hockey, a big part of the American development model, the ADM. He's got a son Victor who's
Jamie: With the Vancouver Canucks right now.
Scott: Yeah. Who's bouncing between the NHL and AHL right now. So not only as profession, he's been a dad, been there, done that, you know, raising an elite hockey player.
Jamie: Worked for the Edmonton Oilers. I mean, he's been there, done that. Episode 40 was our other one, if you guys want to go back and listen to that.
Scott: Every 10 episodes.
Jamie: Yeah, exactly.
Scott: He'll be back for 60.
Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Right. Listen, that may be a thing. But, yeah, he he's great.
Scott: Alright. So let's kick it over to Bob Mancini of USA Hockey. Alright. Alright, everybody. Welcome back to the Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast, and I am super happy to bring back one of the best interviews that we've had so far, Bob Mancini.
And for those of you that don't know him, he's the assistant direct executive director of hockey development at USA Hockey. He oversees youth hockey, coaching education, officiating education, player safety, among other things. He's then there's a player, coach, parent, all of it, and so thrilled to have you back, Bob. Thanks for taking the time.
Bob: Yeah. I appreciate you guys having me back. This is great.
Scott: No. I think of a popular demand. Yes. You know, we've gotten so many great responses just from, you know, the the interview itself and clips we put up online. And, you know, I just it's it's clear that people highly value your opinion.
And, you know, we we've got a bunch to talk about today. So we're looking forward to diving into some things that I think a lot of families have questions about.
Bob: Yeah, no, great. Fire away.
Jamie: All right, so for everybody out there that does not know what's going on, and I know there's a ton of them, can we talk about the new Development League and why you guys put it into place, what you think it's gonna do, and just clear up some, like you said before, misconceptions. So I think there's a ton of them, Bob.
Bob: Yeah. I'm sure there are. And, you know, with whenever there's a new program, right, the rumors run rampant. And, you know, when you're dealing with youth hockey, the rumor mill takes typically takes on a life of its own no matter what you're talking about. So when you're talking about something, possibly as game changing as we believe this could be in a very good way, there's going to be misperceptions about what we're trying to do.
So on on Sunday, USA Hockey Congress voted, in legislation to form the USA Hockey Development League. It'll start in 2728, so, you know, a full year and a half away. But the first thing is the term development league or league. It's not a league in your typical sense of a league. Right?
You think more like league of nations, or maybe we were talking and you guys said, what was it? The the the, superheroes. What what's that called? The league of something.
Jamie: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you mean.
Bob: Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which I I I don't follow, so I don't know.
But think those of you who are history majors. Right? What it is is it's going to be, up to 32 organizations when we first announced this that, want to join and get chosen that have development at the forefront of what they do. And it is for, you know, arguably, who will be the best hockey players at that age from most of The United States to find that path. Because as you know, the path in hockey, as a lot of youth sports, is very convoluted.
Right? Do you go here? Do you go there? Or what about this team versus that team? And all those are very, very important decisions.
So one of the reasons to do this Development League was to further refine and reorganize the path of development for players. And by creating this division and the age groups, by the way, are a little different. They're 15 u and 17, unlike the 14, 16, 18 we have in tier one, tier two, and the large majority of USA hockey. And there's a very good reason for that. So we're gonna create this division at those age groups.
And for most of The United States where tier one hockey is typically celebrated and that's the direction for the best players, those players will get funneled into this league. However, it's very important that other pathways to the top don't get closed off. We know that Minnesota High School produces great players. We're not at all saying that players should leave Minnesota High School to go find teams in the development league. That is a great pathway for players.
Prep school, that is a great pathway for players out east. Right? Prep school. So Yeah. It is actually it actually behooves and benefits USA hockey to have multiple pathways that players can can journey through to get to where they wanna go.
But as I said, for a large part of The United States where tier one is is the pathway, tier one has gotten a little bit too watered down, and it it it's lost the development focus that it needed to have. And that's why we wanted to put something there. So the fifteen and seventeen was really important because if you really study player development, it's important to have multiple exit and entry points in the development pathway because not everyone will develop at the same speed. So player a might be ready for the DL, right, this year as an underage, let's say, as a 16 year old, right, playing in the seventeen u league. But another player might be developing in tier one and not ready for that until he's 17.
And the same thing with the fifteen u. So one of the biggest keys because people said, oh, you're replacing tier one and, oh my god, this is you know, one of the biggest keys of this is that we've created a pathway for teams and organizations to work together to put development first. So we need to partner with our tier one programs that have 13 only tier one and fourteen u tier one and fifteen only and 16 u because those players will have to develop both inside the DL and outside the DL. And just like our national camps where we see high, high percentage of players going to and from national camps on a yearly basis, we plan on seeing that too. And that's a very difficult thing for the populace to understand.
Right? You know, everybody thinks, oh, we gotta get to where we wanna be as quick as possible, and then we gotta stay there. And that's not necessarily true. And the same relationship now we want to happen with tier two. Right?
You know, tier two should be an important development phase and pathway for tier one. Tier two should develop players for high school. Tier two should develop players for prep school, and tier two should develop players for the DL. Right? So we're what we tried to do, as I said, was reorganize and reimagine the development pathway for all players.
We truly believe that not only are we gonna do this right, and when I say we, I don't just mean USA Hockey National Office. I mean, all our partners and all our affiliates do it right where we will not only be producing more high end players, but better high end players. And those players will come out of all of those areas that I mentioned. You know? And I don't know what the next question is, but you know me.
Right? You're gonna get in two questions, and then the hour's gonna fly by.
Jamie: No. It's great information.
Bob: But, you know, I talk a little bit about trying to get someplace too soon. Right? And I think on the last podcast, we talked a little bit, maybe we didn't, about, you know, nobody gets better chasing around the player with the puck. Right.
Scott: We did talk about it for sure.
Jamie: We did talk about that. Right?
Bob: Yep. Yep. This is going to give those pathways for everybody. We're going to be able to put kids in what is one of the biggest tenets of the ADM, and that's players should be playing with players of similar ability. Right?
Because that's how you improve. So that player who may not make tier one needs to go back and dominate tier two. And that player who don't make z l needs to go back and dominate tier one. And our tier one, our DL, our tier two, our high school, and our prep school, all of those entities need to work together to do what's best for the player.
Scott: Yep. Gotcha. No. Quite so so this is just so interesting, and I and I can't imagine the number of parents that are already starting to, like, go bonkers about how they're gonna start, you know, angling to get into those organizations. But in terms of I got two questions, and I'll start with this one.
One is in terms of, like, the development and what a player could expect from the Development League versus tier one versus tier two. Is there going to be a, like, USA Hockey? I don't know if, like, mandates the right word, but in a similar way that there's the ADM. Is there going to be a philosophical approach to this that is going to be, like, mandated across all organizations, or might we see something similar to where in certain parts of the country, I think you'd mess mentioned in the last podcast that there's some parts of the country that really, you know, follow the ADM, and they're they're all in, and there are others that are less so. So just kinda curious about what what the the DL is gonna bring to the players that they might not find currently at tier one, and if that's going to be, like, more of a mandated philosophy across all organizations participating.
Bob: Well, the great question. I'm really glad you brought it up. The we got to the DL because president Trumbulli of USA Hockey, he put together a tier one task force, a commission on tier one. And our original thought and direction was how can we change the direction of tier one, and how can we change the way tier one looks? It wasn't to set up set out and do this new league.
But the way our structure works is our tier one teams are governed by our affiliates. And each affiliate is allowed, and we rely on them to make the best decisions they can possibly for hockey in their area. But as you can imagine, those decisions in one district are really good for Pacific, let's say, and Atlantic could be making really good decisions for their district, but those decisions could be very different. Right. But we needed to come up with some common ground of development for everybody.
And when we all realized and the commission realized we weren't be weren't going to be able to just change tier one blanket across the board because, again, we don't govern like that. We said, okay. We have to look at another way to do it. So that was how we pivoted from perhaps changing the face of tier one on a whole to this. Right?
Making tier one more, consistent across, across The US. And then we pivot and said, well, wait a second. If we can't do it for every tier one team, how can we do it? And that leads me to your question about development. The d d l will have a very, very strict very, very strict standards of development that every team will have to abide by.
Now, again, why didn't we do that for all tier one? Because we couldn't get buy in from every all the tier one. Right? We couldn't get buy in from all the affiliates. But now we've created this entity where if a team wants to be a part of it, they have to follow these development rules, these regulations, so to speak.
And there's an interesting thing on how this is gonna make tier one better as well. So let me give you an example. Years ago, we tried to get tier one to change to one game a day, twenty minute periods, right, at the older age level, 15, 16, and 17. Because we did a study, very scientific study, about the workload output of players and how that reduces over a five game weekend. Right.
And what the injury rate can go. Right? And you talk to any college coach, any scout coach. Go watch the fifth game on a five day weekend of a fifteen, sixteen, or 18 team. It's terrible.
Right. It's completely different than game one. They're
Scott: all exhausted. And that's only accounting for their club hockey. That's not including the high school hockey that some of these kids layer on top of it.
Bob: True. And in some affiliates, they play other hockey as well. Right?
Scott: Right.
Bob: So the rate of injury chance of injury goes up. The the workload output goes down. The so we're actually training our kids to play at a lower level, a a slower level. Right? You know?
And kids are smart. So now some kids are saying, well, I got five games, so I'm not gonna play that hard this day.
Scott: Right. They manage the workload.
Bob: Is exactly the opposite of what you want for high performance training. That's right. Another example was we wanted to limit the number of games a year in tier one, but we couldn't get by it. So those are two minor things that this league will put into place. And if you wanna be a part of this league, you have to follow those guidelines.
Right? And if you don't, you can't be part of the DL. But the interesting thing, and I believe this because I saw it with the national team development program and the USHL, A rising tide raises all boats. Right? Mhmm.
Scott: Yep.
Bob: So what I believe will happen because everybody does wanna do what's good for the kids. Sometimes it just takes nudges. Right? Well, the Development League is gonna set a standard on all of this. And then what we're gonna see is other entities saying, oh, well, we need to do that too.
Right? So instead of having a mandate, instead of having to force, instead of having to coerce, I think, I truly believe what's gonna happen is you'll see more and more tier one teams, for example, say, oh, well, we should only be playing one game a day too. And maybe instead of parents because the parents sometimes are the people who are pushing this game envelope, so to speak. Right? That's true.
I recruit you and my T Mobile. I'm gonna play 60 games. And then you tell me, well, yeah, I'm not gonna play for you because so and so is gonna play 65. And then someone else comes along, if you play for me, we'll play 70 games. Yeah.
Right? And the parents are actually perpetuating some of this. You know, tier one operators are telling us they don't wanna play as many games, which is a good thing. Right? So by putting in those limits and these kind of rules, we think it's gonna affect everybody who is in that space, which is gonna be a really good thing.
You know? And then and then some other things, you know, about mandatory or or strength training and a mental health training and and Oh, yes. Monthly webinars with goalie coaches and goaltenders and goalie parents. Like, all these different things that we can now and I hate the word mandate, but we can regulate Right. On the DL, we think will now start to creep into other levels as well.
And I mentioned I saw this with the NTDP. Right? When the NTDP first came on board, '96 was when we got hired to to start it. '97 was the first year with players. Right?
We we said, okay. We had two assistant had a head coach, two assistant coaches. We had a strength training coach. We had a trainer. Right?
And we were playing in the USHL in the North American League at the time. And then all of a sudden, those leagues started saying, alright. Well, we have to have a full time assistant coach. That's how far back it was. Junior hockey teams didn't have full time assistant coaches.
They were stipend. They were part time. Right? Then all of a sudden, the league said, well, if the development team is doing it, we're gonna do it. And if the development team has strength training, we gotta institute strength training.
So all of a sudden, everything around them started getting better and more standards were in. So, I'm really looking forward to not only some of the things we're putting in place for the development league, but very much so is how can my office and the player development managers help all the clubs who wanna be in this space.
Jamie: So I'm curious, Bob. You mentioned the guidelines. Right? They have to follow strict guidelines. Can you
Bob: talk about what those guidelines are for the different affiliates that are gonna be involved in this? Well, first of all, the affiliates are only involved in it because there are teams from their affiliates in the DL. Right. Understood. Yep.
Right? So we're talking about organizations.
Jamie: Yep. Understood.
Bob: But but just some of them I just said. Right? So one game a day. Okay. I figured that was one of them.
Twenty minute periods. Yep. Right? A maximum of 55 games. That was my next question.
What's the number of games? Okay. Right. Got it. Mandatory, every team is gonna organization has to have a goalie coach.
Okay. Like, know, just other stuff.
Jamie: Mental mental training coach. Okay.
Bob: Coaches coaches have to attend monthly webinars. Right? With USA Hockey. Not necessarily with USA Hockey person. Okay.
We we will do them. We will facilitate them. Mhmm. But for example, we're going to lean on our NHL partners or, you know, maybe the skills coach who I know very well, right, from this team or that or the goalie coach from this team. Right?
Some international coaches, development coaches, right? Who then will put on webinars for these coaches to to join. Okay. And why that's so important is while they'll be mandated for DL clubs, right, because we're USA hockey, they're open to other tier one coaches. They're open to coaches who wanna be part of becoming better coaches for their tier one clubs or whatever.
Right? And I wanna go back to so tier one and the Development League must work together because, again, the rising tide analogy is just fantastic. Right? Right. But, also, there's an important part of this for our players because players should play with players of similar ability, but players need to be overripe before they go to the next level.
Right? Whether that's an age group level or that's a talent level, you wanna be overripe. Right?
Jamie: What does that look like, Bob? What does overripe look like? I'm curious.
Bob: Yeah. That's a great question. So for example, you know, you get parents all the time. My kid has to play up. Okay.
Scott: Right.
Bob: If he plays up, is he one of the top three forwards on the age group above? Is he one of the top two defensemen? Right. Because if he's not Then probably shouldn't play up. Right.
Understood. Yep. You know, you hear so many NHL coaches. Right? You know, you get drafted.
You're a goal scorer. You better score goals. So Right. If if you don't if you don't score goals at the junior level and then maybe at the American League level, you know, and then you get to the NHL and you're there for two weeks and you don't score any goals, guess what? You've just become a checker.
Yeah. Right? Right. Right. You be so and and so we have to get into this idea instead of pushing our players forward too fast is putting our players in an environment where they can excel.
Scott: So Oh.
Jamie: So, again, I I so I'm I'm curious. Can you give a, for instance, you know, a kid who's in tier two that's scoring 75 goals when the next closest person to him is in the forties? Is that kid overripe, or is the kid who scores one point a game in tier two, is that kid overripe, or is it just what again, I'm just curious for other parents that are listening. You know?
Bob: So so that's a great question, but that's the problem. Right? Because not every tier two team is equal. Not every tier two team league is equal. Agreed.
Not every tier one team is equal. Not every tier one league is equal. Absolutely. So a player might be scoring a lot of goals for his tier two team, but then he goes to tier one tryouts, and he's clearly not ready.
Jamie: That's right.
Bob: Right? So it really is individual to that player and to that club. But as a parent, if you can step back and really evaluate and say, oh, you know, little Johnny has the puck all the time Right. Here. Right?
And then he played up an age group, and all he did was chase around the other players. You gotta take a step back and say, is that making him any better? Yeah. Right? Right.
Yeah. And and and it's, you know, we see too many players that are pushed through the development system too quickly, and they never become the player they should become. Right? The defenseman who has to play tier one hockey at too young of an age and to win that tier one coach is telling him, get it off the glass and out. Right.
So this kid who is really, really good now, all he learns for the next four years is not to handle the puck and not to make decisions. Right? Yeah. You know, one of the one of the things we're doing with the with the development league that we've talked about is all the teams make the playoffs. Right?
Because what happens when you're in a league when all the teams make the playoffs? You can afford to develop players. That's right. Right?
Jamie: You don't have to win. There's no win the win first mentality is
Bob: not there. Winning is important, and it has to be part of develop like like, let's face it. There's no development without winning, and there's no winning without development. Agreed. Right?
So if we can get those things to go hand in hand, now we've really created a structure that's great for kids.
Scott: Now let let me ask this. As far as as far as development, a key piece of that is the coaching staff. So in terms of the credentials prerequisites, is there anything that's gonna be laid out for the hiring of these coaches? Will USA Hockey have a hand in that? Like, is there anything in particular that organizations, like, you know, will have to consider when hiring coaches for these teams?
Bob: They have to be they have to be of a mind that is open to lifelong education. Right? We're we're we're not going to involve ourselves in who are the coaches and what you pick. You're the clubs that get chosen are gonna be our partners, and we have to trust that they're gonna pick good coaches. However, what we can regulate is their education.
Right?
Scott: Right.
Bob: And what we're hoping for and what we will push constantly are coaches who are lifelong you know, they believe in lifelong educate education. Right? Right. They wanna get better. They wanna improve.
And and, you know, in anything you do, if you have those people, they'll become better if their mind is open to new ways of looking at things and new things. And I am very, very confident in our coaching education program at USA Hockey. It's been completely overhauled in the last five years, for yeah. Five years, I guess it is. It is a tremendous, tremendous program that teaches coaches how to coach way more than they teach what to coach.
Right? And and we are planning on, further developing that mindset of what should we be doing for our best players.
Scott: Now speaking of the best players, and just kind of segueing away from the organization, the coaching side of things, but now, like, maybe the tactical stuff for families that are learning about this now. So there's going to be a select number of Development League teams within any given state, if I'm not mistaken. Region. Region. Okay.
So region. So could a player, let's say, that lives in New York, could they play for a Development League team that's, like, say, in Michigan, for example? Are there are there any, like, borders around some of these teams, and will they or does it do they have to stay within a certain geography?
Bob: No. Actually, the Development League will have no residency requirements unlike tier one and tier two. However, the reason we have up to 32 teams and the reason we're looking at what is that? 736 players, I think it is. The math.
I was liberal arts major, so I'll have to go to the
Jamie: I'm not of max of '22. Right? I saw 20 skaters, two goalies. Max.
Bob: Correct. Okay. Max. Right?
Jamie: Got it.
Bob: So we worked with a gentleman named Joe Baker out of the University of Toronto, and Joe is one of the world's leading experts on talent identification and development. And he, is the chair of the analytic and sports science department at the University of Toronto. Think I got that right. He has a very long title. But he's a a brilliant man, and and we we have been working close with him on because, you know, part of development is getting the right numbers of players.
So we have to take in consideration. Players gonna stay in Minnesota high school, and players might stay in prep school. And then we have all these tier one teams. And where are they where are the players in the region? Right?
How many players are in each region, in each state, as you said, in each district? And then figure out, okay, how many teams need to be in each of these areas Mhmm. In order for us to have the right number of players. So Interesting. While there is no residency, right, we think we have the right number of players, so we shouldn't see a mass exodus of players.
I don't believe the top and the bottom is going to be so great that a kid who isn't even close to making a development team in New Jersey, his parents are going to, you know, fly him across country.
Scott: Right.
Jamie: Right. To make one in California or something. Somewhere else. Yeah. Or Michigan or something.
Bob: Never been the goal And of if we are strict with our numbers and strict with the teams and we have our age groups right and we are partners with tier one, I very well I I I very much believe that that is not going to be of a major concern. Now will nutty Bob Mancini's doppelganger somewhere take his kid to nine different tryouts? Sure. But here's the thing that nobody wants to talk about. That's happening now.
That is happening now. Crazy parent a with the DL or without the DL is still gonna be crazy parent a.
Jamie: It's for sure.
Bob: Right? So we're very much going to let our partner teams, organizations fill you know, we're not getting involved in the selection process. We have to trust the teams and the partners that get chosen that they know the landscape, and they will do the right things.
Scott: Yep. So sorry, James. Just
Bob: one last question. No.
Jamie: Go ahead. Might ask the question I was gonna ask, so go ahead.
Scott: Maybe. Yeah. I'm just excited.
Jamie: Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. So much information.
Scott: So the the teams and the regions, can you give a little context on on how scheduling what scheduling might look like, and are all teams gonna eventually see all other teams in the league? You know, what travel commitments, that type of stuff? What what what is that gonna look like for families on the East Coast where they see West Coast and vice versa?
Bob: So we we did a lot of research. USA Soccer put together a development league years ago. And then and when you talk to the people at USA Soccer, it was one of the best things they had ever done until they mandated scheduling. And once they mandated scheduling and, you know, their development league team in Tampa had to go to Kansas City, right, once a year and right? Cost went through the roof.
Travel became the focus instead of development. Right? So, we are not. The scheduling will be, done by each team. There'll be some guidelines or or limits around scheduling.
So for example, they will have to play 60% of their games against other DL teams, but they're gonna be able to schedule tier one teams. Prep teams are gonna be able to right? Because this is important. That that is really important. Right?
So for example, a DL team in a heavily populated area that has a lot of good players and may have a few more DL teams than, let's say, a lesser populated area. And when I say populated, I mean with hockey players. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Hockey players. Yep. Yeah.
Right? They they may not have as much travel, right, as, let's say, a team if a team were to get picked in California.
Jamie: I was just gonna
Bob: say California. Out there are already traveling a lot. You know?
Jamie: It's true.
Bob: Their travel we don't want their travel to be any greater than it is than what they're doing now Right. Than what they're doing now. So by allowing them some freedom into their scheduling, you know, we think this is gonna be a a really the right way to go about go about this. So it is possible that not every team will play everybody else. Not possible.
It's probable.
Scott: Right.
Bob: That those things won't happen. Right? And and we're gonna have a couple showcases a year where, you know, all the teams in the East, let's say, all get together. Teams in the West all get together, and, you know, you might have some teams that want a trip for their kids and their families. Like, you know, so there's a lot of that that may go into it, but it's not gonna be strict scheduling.
And that's why I said earlier, league like league of nations, not league like the National Hockey League.
Jamie: Alright. Right. Right. So and correct me if I'm wrong. So they have to play 60% of their games against other DL teams, but they can go outside, play tier one, play prep.
So you could see one of these teams playing like an Avon Old Farms or like a South Kent or something like that. Right?
Bob: Like, they USA hockey registered. Right. Have to be USA hockey registered. So some of those prep schools have before and after teams that are really good teams. They would be able to play the DL teams and if they, you know, they wanna schedule.
Right? But these are USA Hockey registered registered teams.
Jamie: That feels like and tell me if I'm wrong. That feels like when the when the New York when the when the USA national development team goes and plays like BU or they go play, you know, Minnesota or Penn State. Am I right about that? Yeah. Is that kinda the idea?
Bob: Very much so. You know, and that that intra or interscheduling is so important. I had a question come up this past weekend. Well, why would a tier one team wanna play a d l team? Or why would a d l team wanna play a tier one team?
Right? What if they lose to a tier one team? Right? And that's the mindset we gotta get out of. If a 17 u team plays an 18 u tier one team and lose, that's good for both teams.
Jamie: Sure.
Bob: Right? It's just when the NTDP is a really good team and the eighteens go in and beat North Dakota, but lose to BU. It's a three two game either way. Guess what? Everybody benefits.
What doesn't benefit is when you're winning eleven one or losing eleven one.
Scott: Right.
Bob: Right? I wish I could mandate every single hockey game has to be a one goal hockey game going in. Gary Betman has figured out how to do it in the NHL. Yeah. How to do it in youth hockey yet.
Right? But, you know, that's where real development happens. Could you imagine if if youth hockey is structured in such a way and now with the Development League and this reorganization of the pathway, if all of a sudden more games are three two, five four
Jamie: Yeah. Right?
Bob: Six four with an empty net. Like, the development that's gonna go on for every player Yes. Will be huge.
Jamie: Like you said, it's that right that's that that rising tide that lifts all boats.
Bob: Yeah. Yeah. And I do before you ask another question, I do wanna mention something because I wrote this down, and I know you keep talking about parents wanna know. We will not be taking official applications for DL teams until May 1. That was my next question.
And and that that application process Uh-huh. Teams have already filled out some teams that are interested. It was open. Already filled out, request for information previously. And on May 1, the official application will go out.
And teams that have filled out the RFI previously will just have to fill out a one page application and declaration that they're applying for the DL. There might be some teams that didn't apply in the or didn't fill out that form, then they would be able to fill out that form and apply between May 1 and June 30. Then after June 30, the DL oversight committee, which is made up of nine volunteers from all the different not all, but from different sections and councils at USA Hockey. And they will start diving into the merits of all these different organizations that apply. And then they will make decisions and announce teams, October 16.
Jeez, Bob. Why October 16? Because October 16 is the day after tier one rosters have to be submitted. Oh. Because I I know one of you two crazy dads waiting for the announcement, and they're gonna try to move your kid from one team to another.
And that's not not at all what we want. Right? We want development to happen in your own club.
Jamie: Of course. Of course. Okay. So you have not picked the the the local teams from the from the regions yet.
Bob: Okay. No teams have been chosen.
Jamie: I understand.
Bob: In fact, no teams have even been vetted. Nothing. We have collected request for informations. And there are people out there. I I I have a couple of well, so and so says they're getting a team or I heard.
If that's happening, I will tell you right now they are lying to you. You're okay.
Jamie: The I think it much.
Bob: Has been vetted or promised anything. Got it.
Jamie: Okay. What are some of the criteria that you got that the council's gonna choose from when I mean, so obviously, you guys have relationships with some of these organizations already, long standing organizations. So what are some of the criteria? You you mentioned a couple of them.
Bob: So hang on. Define long standing relationships because that sounds like a jersey guy who just got off the set of the sopranos.
Jamie: Okay. Okay? That's true.
Bob: So I know I know all the clubs in The US, and I'm not on the selection committee. And the DL oversight committee, when the working group, the DL working group put together the RFI, they included all kinds of things that they will look at when they open up those RFIs and start to make those decisions on how they're going to ascertain which clubs should be seriously considered. But that is the oversight committee. Is made up just like all of our other committees and councils and sections of US of very, very hardworking volunteers that wanna do the right things for kids. And the the actual metrics of how these teams are picked has we have information from clubs.
We've asked questions, but those metrics have not been defined yet.
Jamie: And I and I guess what I meant by that was long standing relationships. On our last podcast when you came on with us, we were talking about some of the affiliates have been following the ADM and some haven't been in our area in the Northeast, you know. So would it be fair to say that it's not necessarily the biggest and most successful clubs in an area, that it could be, you know, clubs that have been following the ADM for since you guys kinda came up with that program and instituted it?
Bob: There is no way I am going to make a comment on what you just said. Okay. I didn't think
Jamie: so. I didn't I figured I'd try.
Bob: If you'd like to rephrase it four more times, I would find four more different ways to say no comment.
Jamie: Understood. Totally understood.
Bob: So
Jamie: I tried. You did. And I and and
Bob: more power to your answer. You know,
Jamie: sir, I I wasn't expecting you to answer it.
Scott: I I wanted to circle back just a bit on on the age groups that you had mentioned early on. And and if you could just maybe, like, dive just a touch deeper into, like, the 15 and 17 year old age groups and and the different entry and exit points that you had spoken to. Could you why why those two in particular? I mean, I think I have my own reasons, but if you could just share, you know, like, what what was discussed on your end, and just so our listeners get a sense for why why aren't you having it for younger age groups as well?
Bob: Great question. And it's all development reasons. We believe that well, a couple of things. A lot of development is happening between that 14 and 17. I mean, that is prime prime time.
Right? It's just after puberty. Right? Yeah. So things now we you as a coach, you as a development person, clubs can make a difference in in really helping develop players.
Right? Because, look, everything before puberty, right, is I'm on the count. Chain everything changes with puberty. Yeah. And we also know that us as a department, we know by focusing on those age groups, we can help coaches make a difference, and we can make a difference in players.
So that is really why. Now development is very important at eight and under, 10 and under, 12 and under, 14 and under. Right? But it's a different type of development. Right?
Like, you know, the ADM when you think about it. Right? Why why do we say multi multiple sport, multisport athleticism, multisport athletes? Because that's the base that when puberty hits, you're gonna build from in order to be a great player. And maybe when puberty hits, you figure out, I'm gonna be a baseball player.
Well, then good for you. Right? So that whole idea of sports sampling to multisport athletes to a primary and secondary sport. Right? We talked about that a little bit.
That part is very, very important. But we think USA hockey in creating this league can make a difference with players between those ages by making sure our teams and our coaches and our organizations are doing all the right things. So that's why we changed. We we chose those ages. And, also, because development isn't the same for every kid and puberty strikes a little bit different times and
Jamie: Sure.
Bob: We know we have early developers and normal developers and late developers or shouldn't say normal, on time developers because there's no such thing as normal development. Right? It it is is that we need that exit and entry point that goes along with every individual player's development. Now Yeah. I'll tell you a story.
Don't think I told it on the last podcast. When I was in my previous role as ADM manager, which are now player development managers, And my son was was growing up, and I was coaching, you know, a little bit. I didn't really coach much as six u, some of it, but then eight u, and then 10 u, and then 12 u, and then 14. And doctor Steve Norris, is one of the world's leaders experts on long term athlete development. If you don't know doc Norris, he was the guy that WinSport Canada hired when the Olympics were in Vancouver.
Right? And and he he was the one that said, okay. If we wanna win a lot of medals eight years down the road, we gotta start training kids when they're eight years old. Right? Because Olympians can can enter sports at 16 for most Olympic sports.
Right? And Right. Right. This whole idea. So, you know, our ADM principles long term athlete development, was so much shaped by, Jean Cote and and Steve Norris and these people that are experts in that field.
So I'm going through this with my son and my son's friends and and all these kids that I'm coaching. And eight and under is the most important age. Right. And then those kids got to nine, and I realized, oh my gosh. Everything I'm hearing, 10 and under is the most important age, and then 12.
And I called up doc Norris one day, and and we were chatting about it. And I said, doc, like, I'm bought in, and I can see every single player on my team getting better. And, you know, that group of kids that that me and these parent coaches work with, their success at older ages was incredible. Right? Mhmm.
Three of those kids have played games in the NHL. Wow. Four of those kids have played division one hockey. And then 12 of those kids from the very beginning were on two high school state championship. Like, just incredible things that were happening.
Right? So I said to him, doc, I'm so confused. You know, you told me eight and under was the most important, then 10, and then 12. Like, what's the most important? And he said to me, Bob, the most important development stage is the stage the kid is in.
Scott: Right.
Bob: That's where I thought you were going. And then I thought, thanks, doc. I am the dumbest hockey person in the world and that I'll talk to you some other time, and I went and I felt shame for a while. But that's what we have to understand, right, as as coaches and as parents. Yeah.
Right? Yeah. The most important stage is the stage that the player is in at that time. And that, right, leads into that whole idea about being overripe. Right?
Just
Scott: Well, you know, speaking of the overripe and the underripe, I just I was just thinking about this as we're talking and and reflecting on, like, you know, crazy parents and how there's a lot of families that chase letters. You know, they they just wanna be on that triple a team, and they'll find it wherever wherever they can. But now that there's yet yet another level for the older age groups in the Development League, I'm curious as far as, like, what conversations you might have had about, like, you know, you know, families that are now gonna even, like, double, triple down on doing whatever they can to specialize even earlier or commit even earlier to hockey just because they wanna get to this for whatever the reasoning is. Have there have there been conversations or concerns about, you know, about that?
Bob: Yes. And lots of conversations about that. But once again, it's a twofold or two pronged attack or three or four or whatever you wanna call it. But the first thing, when when people bring up that stuff, I think the immediate counterargument has to be, well, that's happening now. So we can't throw away a good idea or a great idea or go down a different path because of the boogeyman.
Oh, the sky is falling. The sky is falling. Oh, another parent's gonna chase something more.
Jamie: Right? Yeah.
Bob: That's already happening.
Scott: Sure. Of course.
Bob: Right?
Scott: Of course.
Bob: So so we can't say, oh, let's not do anything. Let's just stay in the cocoon. And right? We can't do that. Yeah.
Alright? So but education continues to be important, and I mentioned the re the rehauling of our coaching education program. Yeah. We now launched this year a six u, eight u clinic, and that clinic is not just for coaches, but for first time coaches. And, you know, a lot of eight u associations, they have parent helpers.
And it's a three and a half hour course, half the time of our levels one through four. It's for any parent that wants to get on the ice, any six u, eight u coach, and it's all this stuff we've talked about. What's important for kids at six u and eight u? Not being overripe, the ADM, long term athlete development. Why cross ice hockey is so important?
Why half ice hockey is so important? Right? Why the fitting of proper equipment is so important? Right? Yeah.
Like, all of this stuff. So one of the most important things we continue to do at USA Hockey is the education of coaches and the education of parents. Right? And if that's the other prong of this attack. Right?
We you know, and and people do ask me that. Right? Like, oh, you're just fueling the fire. Because we have to continue to take care of 95% of our business, 95% of our consumers and customers that are playing tier two and below. Right.
Nothing has changed. Our eye on the ball has not been taken away from tier two. You know, this is what our concentration in in player development, in coach education, in membership is all about. But just because we have to and we are and we will continue to keep our eye on the ball of tier two hockey and below does not mean we have to ignore that top 5% of players.
Scott: Of course.
Bob: We can do both. We all should do both.
Jamie: Yeah. Right? Yeah. And
Bob: hockey for life. Let's keep every single kid in. Right? Like, hey. Patrick Kane is one of the greatest American hockey players ever to lace up a pair of skates.
At some point, he will be an adult league hockey player.
Jamie: It's true. Right? It's a good point. You don't think about it
Bob: like that. We all get there sooner or later, some sooner than others.
Scott: No doubt.
Jamie: You know, that is true. Yes. Yes. Yes. So so, essentially, everything you've talked about tonight and even on the first part when we had you, I mean USA hockey is firmly entrenched in developing period stop.
That's the one theme that keeps coming up when we talk to you, Bob, In almost in every question, right? And I don't think that you guys get enough at USA Hockey. Don't think you get enough credit for because you hear crazy parents and the guy, USA Hockey doesn't do anything. Oh, they don't they just take our money. But I hope more people listen to this stuff because and I'm not trying to pump USA Hockey's tires, but from the two conversations that we've had together, I mean, you guys really, really are just interested in developing hockey players in The States, period end story.
Bob: And and and you know what's interesting? I thank you so much because you're you've hit it right on the head and and passion. Right? If you wanna do one thing, anybody who's listening to this, if you wanna do one thing that will make your your kid the best possible player he can do be in the future is is instill him with passion and love for the game. Make it fun because players don't develop unless it's fun, and players don't stay in the game unless it's fun.
I can tell you when I was the director of player development for the Edmonton Oilers, there are players playing at the highest levels game that hate hockey, and they can't wait to get out of it. And it's a job. And you look at some of our players now in the NHL, the ones that are having fun, you can tell. Right? You can tell who loves to be out there.
Right?
Jamie: Yes.
Bob: And and if you can do that, we have a chance to make every boy or girl, every boy and girl who who registers with USA Hockey, we have give them a chance to fulfill their potential. Right? And, you know, I I think I mentioned the last one. And, you know, passion, development, fun, challenging, all of that is so important. And remember, fun is not goofing off.
Fun is the environment we create to keep kids in hockey. Because you know what I do know? I know the kid that quits hockey at 11 will not become the best 12 year old.
Jamie: That's for sure.
Scott: No doubt about it.
Bob: He might become the best soccer player. That's right. He's gonna become the best 12 year old. If he quits the game and goes play something else, he's not you're right? So we gotta keep it fun and instill the passion and the love for the game.
Scott: You know? One thing that just came up for me was, as far as the, the development league, so it's is am I correct in saying that it's boys only at this point with or if there's gonna be a a a plan for girls development league teams as well?
Bob: So it's a youth development team, and youth is defined. It could be boys, boys, and girls.
Scott: Right? Okay.
Bob: What what it isn't right now is we are not introducing a development league for girls. Right? Our girls council looked very hard at this, and they don't feel that the Development League is the right step. And, we have a tremendous, tremendous girls council at USA Hockey headed by Don Gould, and, staff liaison is Kristen Sagerton. They they Don does a great job.
That whole council does a great job. And what they do better than anybody in in most walks of life is they look at what are what is good for the girls. What is good for our girls? What is the right step right now for the girls who play u s play hockey for USA hockey? Not,
Scott: oh,
Bob: we gotta do that because they're doing it, or we gotta do that because the boys are doing it. Right? You know, we wanna be fair and equitable. We you girls hockey is such an important part of what we do, but they have made tremendous decisions in making sure we're on the right path to make as many girls join hockey, develop, have fun, be challenged, you know, fulfill their potential in the environment that's right for girls in USA Hockey. And for some of them, that's playing coed hockey.
For some of them, youth. Right? But but Yeah. They have laid out a tremendous path, for our girls at USA hockey, and it's it's, it's growing. I think, we have a very, very good opportunity here where we're gonna break a 100,000 girls registered in the game of hockey in The US here, hopefully, in, the next
Jamie: little while. For this next year. Wow. That's impressive. Yeah.
My goodness.
Scott: And so so one other question, which, just got me thinking. We'd spoken with Sadie Lundquist from College Hockey Inc, if you're familiar, and, she was a great guest. And, you know, being a Minnesota native, the Development League will also Minnesota will also be participating in the Development League because I know that, you know, with they have the community model. I'm just not sure if that is there's any conflict there, if they'll, you know, also be part of it.
Bob: Well, we don't know because the applications don't open until May 1. Right. Right. We we hope if it's right for Minnesota hockey and right for those kids, we certainly hope they will. But, again, you know, this is why multiple paths to get to where you need to go are so important.
Scott: Sure.
Jamie: I mean, essentially, what you guys are doing is you're adding another path, another development path along the list of everything else. Right? Is that
Bob: essentially adding a level to the development path. And by doing so, we reorganized.
Jamie: Yes. Everything below it. Yes. Exactly. And I mean, essentially what you're doing is you're making now triple a more competitive, which would then make double a more competitive, which then makes single a more competitive.
Correct? Exactly right.
Bob: Right. We've taught kids pardon? No. No. Go ahead.
What are gonna say? Yeah. And and what you just said is a big, big ADM tenant. Right? Play with similar ability.
Play with kids with likability because that's how you get better. Right.
Jamie: And Scott and I have have talked on this podcast about how watered down tier one hockey is. Especially in our area, the Northeast. Right. Right. In our area, it is.
Scott: Yeah. You know? So so earlier in the when we were maybe before we started recording, Bob, we were talking about you as, like, maybe taking off your USA hockey hat and put on your dad cap. But, you know, you've you've lived it, and I'm curious from your perspective and assuming you're biased somewhat, but, like, as a as a parent, if you're, you know you know, with your son who's gone on to have, you know, tremendous success, you know, how how would this Development League maybe factor or not factor into, you know, if it was around when he was coming up? Is this something that would just be a given because it's like, you know, let's call it, you know, like, the top end talent or or not necessarily?
Bob: So let's start with the fact that I had my son play tier two hockey till he was 13 years old. Right? Oh, interesting. So he did not play triple a hockey till he was 13, and I felt that was the right entry point for him. And it was development at six u, eight u, ten u, twelve u.
It was about development so he could join triple a at the right time, and 13 ended up being the right time him. Because we live in Michigan and because that's a tier one environment, I would imagine that if the DL was there and if he was good enough to make it, that's where we would have wanted him. I would looking back at him, he probably would I probably would not have wanted him to play in the DL at 14. At 13 and 14, he was in tier one hockey, and that was the right spot for him. When he started to pop a little bit was when he was 15 years old, and he could you know?
Who knows? Right? But he could have very well have been one of those kids that wasn't ready to play d l until he was 15 or 16. Right? Which is which is fine.
His development path has been very different, right, than than most. But because he lives in Michigan now, if if we would have lived in Minnesota, I would imagine his path would have been high school hockey. Right? Which would have been great for him as well. And Yeah.
Sure. Maybe more age appropriate for what his development path was at at that time. Right? But we are all you know, and that's one of the things about the DL is, you know, we have to get we we have to have good options for all our kids in all areas of The United States. But I'll tell you this.
I know for a fact because I asked him because, you know, playing hockey at the highest level, and he just got sent down again on Sunday, you know, which is his path right now. Right? He's learning. He's developing as a player, and, hopefully, he's gonna get the opportunity to play in the NHL and hopefully play for a long time. But there's no guarantees, and he knows that.
Right? Right? But he has to continue to get better. But I will tell you this. Even now to this day, I will tell my kid, have fun.
Enjoy the journey. And I ask him, do you still like it? Are you still enjoying it? And just I had this conversation with just recently, and he said, dad, I love this.
Scott: Unreal.
Jamie: It's all
Bob: I needed to hear as a dad. Absolutely. All I needed to hear. And if he would have told me, no. This is awful.
I I I wanna go, you know, whatever. I would have been like, that's great. I support you a 100. Right? So so, goes back to fun, challenging, right, passion, and all all of that doesn't change.
Scott: The the the 17 age your age group, which I want just to dive into just a little bit more. And so, like, that's at that age group, you also have, like you know, you're competing with the USHL. Right? The the CHL, and now there's a Development League. Kind of, like, where I don't know if that I know it's obviously premature, it's not there yet, but how how does perhaps USA Hockey Hockey see the DL in in relationship to junior hockey, either in The States or in Canada?
Bob: So I admonished James earlier. Now I'm gonna admonish
Scott: you. Okay.
Bob: Because right away, you went to compete. Right? You went, how does the DL compete? Not our job. Our not our job isn't to compete with the USA job.
Our job is to develop as many USA hockey players as we can. Right. Sure. It's the USHL's job, right, to have space for those players when they're ready. To know that.
Yeah. And if right? So Yeah. This once again, this is another one of those things where partnerships and and working together is going to be so important because the last thing we want and the last thing that the DL is going to be is a bunch of organizations that are saying, hey, kids. Stay with us.
Don't go to the USHL. That's not what we're about. Our job is to develop develop as many American players as we can. And it's the junior leagues, the North American League, and the USHL job is to create the right place for them to go at the right time. That's a partnership.
Scott: Right. That makes sense.
Jamie: Yeah. I mean, essentially, what you guys are trying to do is move kids toward I wanna say toward US men's or toward college or toward the NHL, but or toward the Olympics. I mean I mean, can we talk about that for a couple minutes? Can we talk about world juniors and the Olympics that are
Bob: coming up shortly? And Yeah. Absolutely. But remember what you just said is very true. Our job in the hockey development department is to make John Van Biesbruck's job as hard
Jamie: as possible. That's right.
Bob: Make Mike Sullivan's job as hard as possible. Make those teams in the USHL their job. I wanna make every coach in the USHL. I wanna make their job to pick players as hard as possible. When we started the MTDP, you know, we had a camp, the 40 man camp.
Really, 25 players were red you know, we were choosing from 25.
Jamie: Right.
Bob: Right? Now they have 40 people go to that camp, and guess what? They had us they had to make decisions on players who didn't even make the 40 man camp who are close to making that team. Isn't that interesting? You you know, like and so think about this.
Right?
Scott: The
Jamie: talent level's exploding.
Bob: Use a what's that? The talent level's exploding. And and and we gotta continue to make it better. Right? Look at what's happening in the NHL.
The U USA Hockey has continually increased the percentage of players in the NHL. Absolutely. Up until these last three years, we continually increased the players in college hockey. Right? So we have to continue to develop players more and more and more.
Right. I'm gonna use the word approximately because every day is just a little different by one or two players who gets called up and who gets sent down. But there's approximately 100 players in the NHL right now this second who played at the NTDP. There's approximately 200 players in the NHL right now this second who didn't play at the NTDP. Interesting.
That's how that's how important all the other avenues are. That's how important the North American League is. That's how important the USHL is. High school hockey, prep school hockey, tier one, the DL. That's how important because the NTDP only has 46 players there a year.
Right? 23 on each team. Well, we're producing way more players than that, and we have to continue to produce more players than that. And provide paths
Jamie: for those players as well that are not NTDP players. Right. Exactly. It's unbelievable. So you guys actually have a running tally of how many US players are in you guys have, like, a running number of US players?
Bob: Well, I I mean, we don't have a tally board or anything like that.
Jamie: But, I mean, you guys have a general idea. Right? But we know. We know. Yeah.
Bob: Of course, we know. You know? Just like we know what our membership is, and it's important. Right? Because our membership department does great work bringing kids into USA Hockey.
We talk all the time. It's membership and development. Right? Membership and retention. They're the membership department.
Retention's here. We, in essence, are the retention department. Right? That's right. Right?
And, you know, grow grow the game and keep them in the game. So important. So
Jamie: who's gonna win who's gonna win in the Olympics next month? I mean, are we gonna meet Canada in the finals? Is that the
Bob: Well, first of all, we're so excited that our girls under 18
Scott: Oh, yeah.
Jamie: Yes. So that's absolutely
Scott: Yeah. Amazing.
Jamie: Oh, yes. Amazing
Bob: accomplishment. So much fun to watch. The coaches and the players deserve so much credit. The general manager, Kristen Saggart, out of our office, so much credit. Just they what so much fun to watch, isn't it?
Yes. Like, at 100%. Yes. Yeah. And it just like our national women's team, so much fun to watch Yes.
Jamie: Right
Bob: now. So congratulations to them.
Jamie: Yes. Congrats.
Bob: But, you know, look. Our goal is to come back with three gold medals. That's our goal. Yeah. Right?
And we can't be shy in saying that that's our goal. Is it gonna be hard? Yes. May we not make it? Yeah.
Absolutely. I mean, there are a lot of good hockey playing countries right now.
Jamie: Yes. There are.
Bob: A lot of good hockey. You saw the world junior. Absolutely. World junior went to eight eighteen quarterfinals, and probably five teams could have won the gold medal. Problem.
Great development system. Really good. Great team they had. But let's not forget it. They won an overtime game in a shootout to get to the gold medal.
Anybody could Like Right. Last year to lose that game. Right? And this is why we have to be so even keeled. Right?
And I I chuckle at some of the some of the the newspaper accounts and the websites and and everything else. Right? Because right away, we lose in the quarter final game and, oh my god, everything about our development system is all.
Jamie: Like, literally two out of the
Bob: last three
Jamie: years. We got two gold medals in the last three years.
Bob: Oh, here's my best story. I was sitting with a very good friend of mine from the Swedish Ice Hockey Association and told him about the article, and he left. And he pulled up an article, and he showed it to me from last year when the Swedes lost.
Jamie: It was the same thing?
Bob: And same exact thing except in Swedish. Some writer in in paper in Stockholm. Oh my god. We gotta change everything. Right?
And that's exactly what we don't have to do. We can't be reactive. We have to have a good plan. And we have to make sure that we're looking at our plan and make sure it's the best possible plan every year. Yeah.
Jamie: That's very true.
Scott: Well, listen, Bob. I think we're we're at the a little over the hour mark.
Jamie: A yellow long.
Bob: This is fine. Of course we No.
Scott: Listen. It's wonderful. Yeah. This was this was huge, and I know our listeners are just gonna love to hear the details about what's what's coming up, you know, with the DL and USA Hockey. And and thank you so much for taking the time tonight this evening to share with us and our listeners.
You know, I I'm personally so looking forward to see how this materializes, you know, and it's just what a great step for USA Hockey.
Bob: Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Scott: Yeah. Thank you so
Jamie: much, Bob. This was wonderful. Again, part two was wonderful.
Scott: Yeah. I
Jamie: appreciate appreciate it. Three, four and five.
Scott: Alright, Bob. Thanks so much. You have a great evening.
Bob: Take care. You too.
Scott: Alright. Do well.
Jamie: Alright, everybody. We are back from our second interview with Bob Mancini from USA Hockey. I hope that cleared things up for people about the new USA Hockey Developmental League. I mean, it was a lot of information. Yeah.
Tons of information.
Scott: Yeah. Mean, I didn't I know that there's some posts out there and some other information. I I didn't read up too much about it. But, you know, the what I thought was really interesting how they have it, you know, at the
Jamie: 15 and 17
Scott: year old levels and how we specifically talked about on ramps and off ramps. Maybe we used different words.
Jamie: No, no. You're right
Scott: about that. But just how You can kind
Jamie: of come and go.
Scott: Right. Like if you make it when you're younger, it doesn't mean you're going to be there when you're older. That's mature. And like people mature at different ages. And so there's an onboarding for kids that are ahead of the curve and when they're older.
So that made a lot of sense. I am curious though at the end of the conversation you didn't really get into it but how this is going to work with juniors for the old, for the younger, for the 15 year old age group. There's less kids that are going away from home and like that type of thing. But certainly when you get up to 17, like at that point, like kids will finish their, you know, u 16 year and that's, you know, for those that are playing premier, like elite levels u 16. Yeah.
You know, a lot of them do go on to the USHL. Some will even go off to the CHL. So I'm just curious how, you know, the that Development League will stack up against those options for that age group, you know?
Jamie: You know, I I think it's I think it's gonna be good for kids. Listen, every time we talk to Bob Mancini, one of the core tenets of everything he says is is development.
Scott: Right.
Jamie: Every single question he answers for us, development is woven into it somehow. Right. Right? You know, so that's what they're interested in. I think I actually mentioned it, like, later on the podcast.
Like, they're that's what they're looking to do.
Scott: Right.
Jamie: You know? So they're they're sending I know people, like, break USA Hockey's balls. Oh, they don't throw in. They just take your money. They what the fuck are they good for?
I mean, people in Internet are in comment section going, don't listen anything USA Hockey says.
Scott: You know? But I will say what what what is hard for USA Hockey, I think, is just that they are they have all of this information and this, you know, the ADM. Do. You know? And just they they rely on all of the organizations
Bob: To follow
Scott: suit. To follow suit. Yes. And if you're not getting buy in or you're not getting organizations that are drinking the Kool Aid, so to speak Yeah. You know, then it's like it's kinda, you know, kids, families are not benefiting from all of the research.
Jamie: Some are not. That's true.
Scott: No, plenty are.
Bob: You're not wrong.
Jamie: You're not wrong. I think he mentioned our area was one of those areas.
Scott: Where it's not 100%
Jamie: They were not really buying
Scott: 100, but there's a lot less buy in in this area.
Jamie: Whereas the new hockey markets
Scott: Right.
Jamie: Are more apt to buy into that stuff because they don't have a past history of ice hockey.
Scott: Right.
Jamie: Right. The game is new there, like Arizona and Florida and California. Right?
Scott: But it does sound like this Development League, that's going to be one of the things that is a non negotiable, is
Jamie: Sounds like it. Yeah. If you don't follow their model I meant to ask.
Scott: The enforcement? What's
Jamie: sheaths we're going to be?
Scott: How you're holding them accountable.
Jamie: Listen, they could probably yank the thing from you. If you have an organization who's not Listen, following suit from what I gather, they're going to have a lot of applications for this thing.
Scott: Yeah, no doubt. But then it's like, what does that look like? They're going to have someone come and audit?
Jamie: I don't know the
Scott: answer Like an on ice audit to see what practice is like?
Jamie: Listen, I don't know the answer to that. It's going to get interesting.
Scott: So that's definitely interesting. And also the the fact that there's gonna be less games and that any kid that
Jamie: want 50? Fifty five? Fifty?
Scott: Did he say 50? I thought it was 60.
Jamie: I think it was less than that.
Scott: It was less than 60? I think so.
Jamie: Oh. I wanna say fifty, fifty five ish.
Scott: Either way. Yeah. Something like that. Then the kids also can Yeah.
Jamie: Just heard it. Whatever.
Scott: Kids need a that's like their only the only club they're participating in. Like, you're not having a kid doing Development League and high school.
Jamie: Right? You know, did he say that?
Scott: That's what I'm pretty sure.
Jamie: Yeah. You might be right about that. You know, listen, they want one one game per day. I remember Marsh saying I remember Marsh saying, like, last year or two years ago, he's like, how stupid is two two games a day shit? Oh, yeah.
He's like, Jamie, he's like, it's so stupid. He's like, kids are fucking gassed for the second game. He's like, it's too much. He's like, mentally, physically. He's like, it's so stupid.
He's like, they should do one game a day. He was saying this, like, three years ago.
Scott: Yeah. Sounds like that. Mean, there's
Jamie: Alex Marcy, he used a hockey job.
Scott: Yeah, well, there you go. Shout out, Alex. That's right.
Jamie: Shout out, Marcy.
Scott: No, but I think for the older age group, certainly the less number of games, you're lowering the injury potential, the overuse I mean, lot there's of benefits. The burnout. Yeah. I mean, look, the time will tell how it evolves. But I think the fact that it's being positioned as above triple a in terms of the pyramid, like you said, is gonna draw a lot of attraction.
And there are gonna be families that have like, NTDP and like whatever other USA hockey Yes. Associations there are at the older age groups. Like, you know, so I I would be I'm curious to see if the younger age group is gonna be more competitive than the older age group.
Jamie: Meaning 15u, that one?
Scott: Yeah, not against one another, but meaning you're gonna have the most concentration of elite players at that age when there are other pathways and you talked about other pathways between the prep schools and the whatever else. If it's going to be as a concentration.
Jamie: It's going to be fascinating to see this thing play out. And I think you actually said that. I mean, it's really going be interesting to see how this thing actually plays out. I think USA Hockey has good intentions with all of this. I'm curious if there's any way for parents or organizations to ruin it.
Don't think you
Scott: would be able to ruin it.
Jamie: Well, know what
Scott: I mean. No, look. Listen, I think the proof will be out on the ice. You know what mean? I think it might take some time to get the best version of it in terms of the organizations.
But they're also being very selective. Like you said, they haven't even received any there was They haven't made any decisions.
Jamie: They're getting interest.
Scott: Interest, right.
Jamie: They're filling out applications of interest right now.
Scott: Right. So that process is even underway. So I'm assuming that the organizations that do get accepted into this Development League are ones that already have a very strong tier one program. I would think you're not where there's already attraction to the organization. That would be my guess.
Jamie: So I tried to ask him that. Obviously, that's the one where he chastised me. And broke my chops. No, actually, he's No, was Which I understand exactly why he didn't want to answer it because he can't answer that question.
Scott: But if you're looking for elite talent, right? You're going to go to the markets or the teams, I would imagine, that are Listen. That have a long that have a history of of like, in our
Jamie: area Doing
Scott: do do you think I'd be curious to see if Mid Fairfield's gonna be one of them, for example. Is the North Jersey Avalanche gonna be one
Jamie: of them? Obviously, that's what I was getting to when I was asking that. Right? I was I assumed Right.
Scott: Is Little Caesar's gonna be
Jamie: one? I assumed that the Rockets and the Avalanche Penns state of New Jersey. Right. Exactly. Right.
Mid Fairfield, Penns Elite.
Scott: Right. Junior Eagles.
Jamie: Right. Correct. Exactly right. Like, exactly. The Minutemen Flames or some or Worcester Railers, somebody like that.
You know? And that's where I was kind of asking him, like, you know, so obviously, they have relationships with these organizations over the years. And some of these organizations that don't listen to USA Hockey when they say, hey, try x, y, and z, and they say, no, we've been doing this for a long time, and we think a, b, and c is the right way to do it. Yeah. I'm curious if they're gonna maybe hold back some of these I don't wanna call it a charter.
Or if they
Scott: Acceptance.
Jamie: If they don't accept it from a big organization that maybe has not been listening to them for the last ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty. Don't know the answer.
Scott: I mean, if
Jamie: I tried to get it out of him. Obviously, he was not gonna answer. I didn't expect him to answer it, but I tried.
Scott: Yeah. Well, it'll be interesting when it plays out.
Jamie: And we'll
Scott: see. But I'm really glad that we had the opportunity to speak with him, have him share what's on the horizon, what parents can expect, at least based on the information that they can share now. Yeah. And he's great
Jamie: to have on.
Scott: Yeah. No, he's always an
Jamie: awesome And good luck to Victor Mancini. He just played a bunch of games with the Vancouver Canucks, his son, which I thought was very interesting. Bob said that he did not have his kid play AAA until 13.
Scott: You know what's so funny?
Jamie: Think Isn't that interesting?
Scott: He did say that. He was tier two until 13. Isn't that interesting? Right? Yes, it is.
I could have sworn and this was guess what game was I watching? I think it was Vancouver. It must have the Vancouver Edmonton game. And I'm almost positive.
Jamie: Was Victor playing?
Scott: Think just
Jamie: played four games then.
Scott: No. Yeah. And then when I saw Mancini, I was like, I wonder if that's not Mancini's game. Sure enough, it is.
Jamie: Yeah. Did not play triple a until thirteen.
Scott: Yeah.
Jamie: And we have all these schmucks in the not all these, but some schmucks in our comment sections going, you needed to be with the top town all the time.
Scott: Why do
Jamie: you turn
Scott: as Kermit the Frog when you make fun of playing
Jamie: with the top talent, you're not gonna go anywhere. Well, you know what? That's really not true. Every kid has his own path. Yeah.
Listen to Kermit. Seriously. Because Kermit knows. Because Kermit talks to really smart people in the hockey world. Right?
No. I'm joking. You know? So you have all these knuckleheads that are going, you no. You shouldn't play tier two.
You need to play with the best talent out there because that's how your kid gets better. Okay. Fair. But my point is is that you don't need to do it when you're six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11. Right?
Like, you know, so a lot of you people out there that have, you know, kit listen. I did it too when I first got into this. If I did have a podcast and was interviewing all these people, you know, I would probably still be thinking in that in that in that old school thinking. Right?
Scott: Yeah. I mean, that was you.
Jamie: That was me. 100%.
Scott: Knew it.
Jamie: Had Like, he needed to play full ice bikes. He was
Scott: on two different brick teams.
Jamie: 100%. If I needed to do it over again, it would be totally different. Totally different.
Scott: Totally different. Totally different. Different. Dom's still on the younger side of things. You have time to adjust your approach.
Jamie: I do. Yep. I definitely do. Listen, it's all about the development of the kids. Like Bob was saying at the end of the interviews, make sure they like it.
Make sure they love the game. Right? Because it gets hard, like Doug Christensen says, it gets hard, they need to love the game because it does not get any easier. If they don't love the game, it's really easy for them to not want to put the work in.
Scott: Yeah. Right?
Jamie: Yeah. So make sure your kids love the game. Make sure they're engaged. Make sure they're having fun. And they will develop on their own time.
Scott: That is true.
Jamie: And that's kind of what this developmental league is for. Yep. Right? I think it's another, what did he call it? Another level?
Scott: Level. Another level. So I
Jamie: hope that was informational to people. I know there's been a lot of bad information out there like we were talking about. So I'm hoping that this cleared some of it up, maybe gave you guys kind of an and for those of you who didn't know it, this is kind of what's coming
Scott: Yep.
Jamie: For, for youth hockey.
Scott: Yep. USA Hockey Developmental League.
Jamie: But it's designed to make the kids better across the board.
Scott: Yep. Right. That's it. So there you go, buddy. Alright, Kyle.
Well, listen. Great episode.
Jamie: Good seeing you again. 50 in the books.
Scott: In the books.
Jamie: Here we go. Look forward to Andres DeVillier from Titan Battle Gear. Yep. Next episode, use our our link. That's gonna be in our description for 10% off Titan Battle Gear.
Everybody should go buy it. I know it's not cheap, but we spend enough money on this game. And everybody should have this because it is the ultimate protection for your children.
Scott: Yep. Yep. That's it.
Jamie: Alright, buddy.
Scott: Alright, Guy. I'll talk to you.
Jamie: See you.
Scott: Hi.