1 00:00:08,884 --> 00:00:10,954 Rob: Hello and welcome back to Strange New Worlds. 2 00:00:10,954 --> 00:00:13,324 I'm Rob and joining me as always is 3 00:00:13,867 --> 00:00:14,977 Kevin: Kevin. 4 00:00:15,007 --> 00:00:15,727 How's it going, Rob? 5 00:00:16,106 --> 00:00:17,426 Rob: Oh, very, very good. 6 00:00:17,636 --> 00:00:20,706 I'm doing so well 'cause I'm here talking Star Trek with you. 7 00:00:21,416 --> 00:00:26,066 We are screaming into the void and hopefully people are listing back. 8 00:00:26,407 --> 00:00:29,107 Kevin: With our giant ship maw, that's what's screaming. 9 00:00:29,107 --> 00:00:29,527 Rob. 10 00:00:29,546 --> 00:00:31,586 Rob: With a ship with a mouth. 11 00:00:32,137 --> 00:00:32,437 Kevin: ship with a mouth. 12 00:00:32,891 --> 00:00:35,861 Rob: did it a menacing mouth with teeth? 13 00:00:35,951 --> 00:00:36,341 Did it 14 00:00:36,457 --> 00:00:39,037 Kevin: start with the lows before we get to the highs, Rob. 15 00:00:39,037 --> 00:00:42,787 And the low of this episode was definitely the design of that ship. 16 00:00:43,361 --> 00:00:45,641 Rob: Yeah, so it did, it did seem that it would be coming out of a 17 00:00:45,641 --> 00:00:48,131 different type of, uh, franchise. 18 00:00:48,251 --> 00:00:52,181 I could definitely see it in like a Guardians of the Galaxy or any 19 00:00:52,181 --> 00:00:56,621 of the Avengers type of space adventure, uh, comic book movies. 20 00:00:56,797 --> 00:01:00,067 Kevin: I can just imagine the creative meeting, the production meeting 21 00:01:00,067 --> 00:01:03,247 where the designer went, Look, I did something a little wild here. 22 00:01:03,337 --> 00:01:08,017 Uh, I'm, I'm not wedded to it, but what do you think of this? 23 00:01:08,017 --> 00:01:10,807 And everyone kind of went Ship it. 24 00:01:11,197 --> 00:01:12,547 We're outta time, just do it. 25 00:01:12,581 --> 00:01:13,091 Rob: Just do it. 26 00:01:13,121 --> 00:01:13,631 Just do it. 27 00:01:13,631 --> 00:01:16,841 We've got, you know, we've got so many episodes to film in a year, 28 00:01:17,081 --> 00:01:19,361 we can't stop and deliberate. 29 00:01:19,691 --> 00:01:24,521 So yes, we are up to episode six of season three of Strange New Worlds, 30 00:01:24,791 --> 00:01:27,401 The Sehlat That Ate Its Tail. 31 00:01:28,271 --> 00:01:29,711 What a title! 32 00:01:30,161 --> 00:01:34,721 Um, and this is a, I would say I'd be bold as to say it's a 33 00:01:34,721 --> 00:01:36,191 little cheeky backdoor pilot. 34 00:01:36,221 --> 00:01:36,941 What do you reckon? 35 00:01:37,267 --> 00:01:37,567 Kevin: Yep. 36 00:01:37,747 --> 00:01:38,527 I think so too. 37 00:01:38,527 --> 00:01:46,267 This is, uh, this is leaning into that origin story stuff that, that tickles all 38 00:01:46,267 --> 00:01:52,654 of our nostalgia brain cells and gives the fans exactly what they're asking for. 39 00:01:52,704 --> 00:01:57,564 Rob: So, yes, this is an episode that solely focuses on the crew 40 00:01:57,594 --> 00:02:03,924 that will become, uh, the, you know, TOS crew of the Enterprise. 41 00:02:03,966 --> 00:02:04,356 Kevin: Yes. 42 00:02:04,356 --> 00:02:10,566 Every member that is, that was available at this point in our, uh, casting process 43 00:02:11,286 --> 00:02:14,106 was, uh, arranged to be on the one ship. 44 00:02:14,454 --> 00:02:20,529 Rob: And the one person who is not leaves straight away, taking who they 45 00:02:20,529 --> 00:02:24,849 can with them and at that particular moment, as, as soon as they arrive on 46 00:02:24,849 --> 00:02:29,499 the Enterprise, uh, the ability to, you know, transport back there is gone. 47 00:02:29,499 --> 00:02:33,589 So we open on Kirk, uh, as first officer on the Farragut. 48 00:02:33,743 --> 00:02:37,883 Kevin: Satisfying by itself because we've talked before about how Kirk's 49 00:02:37,883 --> 00:02:40,223 Farragut is like this, this ghost ship. 50 00:02:40,253 --> 00:02:42,533 It gets mentioned, but it's never seen. 51 00:02:43,013 --> 00:02:46,373 Kirk talks about how the Farragut is there, but. 52 00:02:46,663 --> 00:02:49,943 We're not sure we quite believe him because it's, you know, it's kind 53 00:02:49,943 --> 00:02:52,973 of like the imaginary girlfriend from the internet sort of thing. 54 00:02:53,093 --> 00:02:56,783 Do you really have a ship, James Kirk, or are you just like hanging out? 55 00:02:56,903 --> 00:02:59,303 Uh, are you just crashing our party here on the Enterprise? 56 00:02:59,336 --> 00:03:01,196 Rob: I believe the Farragut is in Canada. 57 00:03:01,553 --> 00:03:01,973 Kevin: Yes. 58 00:03:03,353 --> 00:03:07,853 So good to see the actual Farragut in the flesh, the bridge, the 59 00:03:07,853 --> 00:03:10,133 crew, the Captain a Vulcan. 60 00:03:10,223 --> 00:03:10,793 Amazing. 61 00:03:11,201 --> 00:03:15,071 Rob: Now is, you know, you, you know, the original series more than I do. 62 00:03:15,311 --> 00:03:17,931 Um, there's quite a traumatic past with the Farragut. 63 00:03:17,951 --> 00:03:23,081 Like, uh, Kirk in the original series has talked about like taking risks, 64 00:03:23,081 --> 00:03:27,701 or not taking risks because it, like he lost half his crew and his captain. 65 00:03:28,618 --> 00:03:33,953 Kevin: I, I have to go back and look that one up, Rob, because I, I think it is 66 00:03:33,953 --> 00:03:36,353 lost to the mists of time in my memory. 67 00:03:36,353 --> 00:03:40,883 I get it confused with Picard's origin story and the Stargazer. 68 00:03:41,858 --> 00:03:45,608 Because the Stargazer was definitely a case of, of cap, like in a 69 00:03:45,608 --> 00:03:48,398 crisis, Picard had to take command. 70 00:03:48,458 --> 00:03:50,708 The ship was lost, they had to abandon ship. 71 00:03:50,738 --> 00:03:55,508 And, and that formative experience carries forward in Picard's future. 72 00:03:55,538 --> 00:03:58,718 And I don't know, it sounds right to me that Kirk has a 73 00:03:58,718 --> 00:04:00,388 parallel story with the Farragut. 74 00:04:00,608 --> 00:04:04,418 It sounds like something I've been told, but I can't tell you exactly where I 75 00:04:04,418 --> 00:04:05,948 heard it, and so I'm not a hundred percent 76 00:04:06,356 --> 00:04:09,026 Rob: Well, we can come back to that at a later date. 77 00:04:09,026 --> 00:04:16,421 So we have, the Farragut is attacked, uh, by a planet destroying 78 00:04:16,421 --> 00:04:18,701 ship that they witness firsthand. 79 00:04:19,031 --> 00:04:20,921 Uh, the Farragut is disabled. 80 00:04:21,521 --> 00:04:27,341 Coming into the rescue is the Enterprise with some gorgeous shots sh you know, 81 00:04:27,371 --> 00:04:32,861 warping in putting on the bubble shields, using the phasers to knock away 82 00:04:33,128 --> 00:04:38,558 Kevin: I sense that they had a choice between doing a quantity of effects 83 00:04:38,558 --> 00:04:42,458 shots that were called for in the script or putting it into quality 84 00:04:42,458 --> 00:04:45,848 of a smaller number of effects shots and doing without the number. 85 00:04:46,028 --> 00:04:49,778 And they definitely leaned into quality, so that later in the episode there were 86 00:04:49,778 --> 00:04:54,308 things happening and conspicuously, the camera just stayed on our character's 87 00:04:54,308 --> 00:04:57,068 faces as they were like, wow. 88 00:04:57,278 --> 00:04:58,808 And we got to see none of it. 89 00:05:00,191 --> 00:05:00,521 Rob: Yeah. 90 00:05:00,551 --> 00:05:00,821 Yeah. 91 00:05:00,821 --> 00:05:03,941 They put all their money into the opening shot and bless 'em for it. 92 00:05:04,208 --> 00:05:05,078 Kevin: But yeah, great. 93 00:05:05,078 --> 00:05:08,438 The, the, yeah, the Enterprise warping in with the shield bubble and the, the, the 94 00:05:08,468 --> 00:05:15,908 tumbling debris, the, the, the Enterprise being grabbed by the, the, the feelers 95 00:05:15,908 --> 00:05:21,488 of the ship and pulled into it, and it all felt, it all felt weighty and, and 96 00:05:21,488 --> 00:05:24,488 tangible and in, in a very satisfying way. 97 00:05:24,488 --> 00:05:25,058 I loved it. 98 00:05:25,478 --> 00:05:30,128 One of the things I wrote in my notes about this episode is it felt like a TV 99 00:05:30,128 --> 00:05:36,128 episode size story with movie quality production values, which I feel like has 100 00:05:36,128 --> 00:05:41,588 always been the promise of these, these modern Star Trek shows, but they rarely 101 00:05:41,588 --> 00:05:45,908 quite get there to the extent that I feel like they succeeded this episode. 102 00:05:46,286 --> 00:05:50,156 Rob: Yeah, I, I, um, just to right off the bat, I love this episode. 103 00:05:50,216 --> 00:05:52,496 I thought it another really good one. 104 00:05:52,496 --> 00:05:53,816 So that's two for two for me. 105 00:05:53,816 --> 00:05:59,726 Two really good quality, uh, episodes that, um, and had some, 106 00:05:59,726 --> 00:06:03,866 and had some really dark stuff at the end that you're going, right. 107 00:06:04,046 --> 00:06:05,096 Some really powerful 108 00:06:05,363 --> 00:06:08,298 Kevin: Actual original lore for the Star Trek universe. 109 00:06:08,458 --> 00:06:10,658 I, I didn't, I forgot what that felt like, Rob. 110 00:06:12,806 --> 00:06:14,156 Rob: Well, you've got it now. 111 00:06:14,921 --> 00:06:19,901 Um, so yes, we, uh, end up on the Farragut with Kirk and, uh, the 112 00:06:19,901 --> 00:06:22,541 away team that, uh, boards us. 113 00:06:22,601 --> 00:06:26,741 Yeah, like you said, conspicuously, the ones that will be on the Enterprise. 114 00:06:26,741 --> 00:06:29,411 So it was Spock, it was Chapel, it was Uhura. 115 00:06:29,484 --> 00:06:34,178 Kevin: I caught it right away, La'an beamed off, and then the, the, the 116 00:06:34,238 --> 00:06:39,173 all hell broke loose and I just said, Spock, Uhura, Scotty, Chapel and Kirk. 117 00:06:40,433 --> 00:06:41,243 That's all I said. 118 00:06:41,273 --> 00:06:44,993 Uh, because it was, it was so clear to me what we were doing all of a sudden. 119 00:06:45,536 --> 00:06:48,686 Rob: So, yeah, in the, um, in the previously on, we got a little 120 00:06:48,686 --> 00:06:53,486 taste of, um, how Kirk has helped Uhura in the previous episodes. 121 00:06:53,756 --> 00:06:58,166 So that's, it establishes that connection there and that plays into it here 122 00:06:58,316 --> 00:07:03,896 because this is a Kirk who is not fully at the place where we have seen him. 123 00:07:04,463 --> 00:07:05,543 Kevin: None of them are. 124 00:07:05,633 --> 00:07:11,788 Uh, so fun to see all of them in that not quite there yet, uh, mode. 125 00:07:11,788 --> 00:07:16,678 And it was like the, the differences were emphasized, sometimes literally 126 00:07:16,678 --> 00:07:20,998 in lines of dialogue that were, were like cutoff versions of 127 00:07:21,178 --> 00:07:23,188 famous lines they would say later. 128 00:07:23,578 --> 00:07:28,038 Uh, Kirk, Kirk says, Risk is why we're here, isn't it? 129 00:07:28,338 --> 00:07:32,278 Not Risk is our business, to cite the, uh, our, the, the, the 130 00:07:32,278 --> 00:07:34,528 soliloquy I mentioned last episode. 131 00:07:34,541 --> 00:07:38,231 Rob: It does sound a little bit like, uh, when they did the Amazing Spider-Man 132 00:07:38,231 --> 00:07:41,891 with Andrew Garfield, they could, they didn't want to use the phrase, with 133 00:07:41,891 --> 00:07:43,751 great power comes great responsibility. 134 00:07:43,871 --> 00:07:47,591 So they rewrote it to be, you know, when you have a lot of power, then you 135 00:07:47,591 --> 00:07:50,651 have to think about what you're gonna do with that power in a particular way. 136 00:07:50,651 --> 00:07:52,481 So there going, just say it. 137 00:07:52,571 --> 00:07:53,381 Just say the thing. 138 00:07:53,411 --> 00:07:56,021 Just say, just say it, Bart, say the line. 139 00:07:56,213 --> 00:07:56,633 Kevin: Yeah. 140 00:07:56,963 --> 00:08:00,388 Later on Spock says To keep them waiting longer would be not good. 141 00:08:01,121 --> 00:08:01,886 Rob: That was great. 142 00:08:01,946 --> 00:08:03,176 I really love that. 143 00:08:03,986 --> 00:08:07,556 Um, and like those proto development, 'cause we've had little tastes of it. 144 00:08:07,556 --> 00:08:14,726 Like there was a moment where like Uhura, Spock and, um, Kirk had like a, a drink at 145 00:08:14,726 --> 00:08:17,306 the bar at I think the end of season one. 146 00:08:17,307 --> 00:08:19,347 Kevin: No Scotty yet, but yeah, that, that was 147 00:08:19,556 --> 00:08:21,776 Rob: No Scotty, but this is like the development. 148 00:08:21,926 --> 00:08:28,376 This episode in particular, you see that dynamic of the counseling that Spock 149 00:08:28,376 --> 00:08:30,806 gives to Kirk, and Kirk listens to that. 150 00:08:30,866 --> 00:08:34,706 That would become a captain number one relationship, uh, 151 00:08:34,736 --> 00:08:36,356 developing, starting to develop. 152 00:08:36,386 --> 00:08:41,516 You see that relationship, that abrasive, almost borderline insubordinate, 153 00:08:41,786 --> 00:08:46,526 uh, Scotty behavior to Kirk, but how they develop that trust and 154 00:08:46,703 --> 00:08:47,218 Kevin: Oh yeah. 155 00:08:47,426 --> 00:08:47,606 Rob: yeah. 156 00:08:48,383 --> 00:08:48,543 Kevin: It's so good. 157 00:08:48,553 --> 00:08:51,943 Both of them are completely ineffective on their own, but you put them in that 158 00:08:51,943 --> 00:08:55,428 ready room together and they make magic, and that is exactly what we wanna see. 159 00:08:55,846 --> 00:08:59,836 Rob: The actor again, who playing plays Scotty is outstanding. 160 00:08:59,956 --> 00:09:03,496 Is absolutely, and because of him, because of him, and because of that episode 161 00:09:03,646 --> 00:09:07,306 I've had in my head for the last week, I've just had in my head running around. 162 00:09:07,726 --> 00:09:12,076 Um, I know it's got no connected, but Jimmy Doohan in Star Trek VI, I think 163 00:09:12,226 --> 00:09:15,256 when Spock asked for something, he goes, there's nothing wrong with a bloody thing. 164 00:09:15,556 --> 00:09:16,186 And he, yeah. 165 00:09:16,336 --> 00:09:19,426 So that insubordinate type of, you know, following 166 00:09:19,618 --> 00:09:24,988 Kevin: Insubordinate, sarcastic Scotty is very Simon Pegg from the and I 167 00:09:24,988 --> 00:09:30,778 feel like our actor here whose name I definitely need to learn is, uh, is a 168 00:09:30,778 --> 00:09:37,448 beautiful like halfway point between Simon Pegg and um, and Jimmy Doohan. 169 00:09:37,828 --> 00:09:42,088 It, you can see both of them through the one person and it's so delightful. 170 00:09:42,196 --> 00:09:46,306 Rob: Scotty in the movies is definitely, well, Scotty, like in the original movies, 171 00:09:46,306 --> 00:09:50,896 and Simon Pegg is a lot more insubordinate with his, like he's easier to swear, 172 00:09:51,253 --> 00:09:51,763 Kevin: Yes. 173 00:09:52,033 --> 00:09:56,203 Here he's insubordinate out of like, because he's green and then he's like 174 00:09:56,533 --> 00:10:00,373 at peak performance in the original series and then the movies, he's like, 175 00:10:00,373 --> 00:10:02,533 I'm too old for this shit insubordinate. 176 00:10:02,866 --> 00:10:03,136 Rob: Yes. 177 00:10:03,136 --> 00:10:04,066 Martin Quinn. 178 00:10:04,126 --> 00:10:08,296 Martin Quinn is the, uh, Scottish native who is actually 179 00:10:08,653 --> 00:10:11,083 Kevin: I think we both said we liked him right away when he appeared 180 00:10:11,083 --> 00:10:14,413 last season, and I feel like he's getting stronger with every episode. 181 00:10:14,581 --> 00:10:14,911 Rob: Yeah. 182 00:10:14,911 --> 00:10:20,251 And like, and him working off, uh, Paul Wesley is amazing and he, we, he's 183 00:10:20,251 --> 00:10:24,871 already established a great relationship with Uhura and um, and Ethan Peck. 184 00:10:25,321 --> 00:10:29,431 Um, so yeah, all that stuff was just there. 185 00:10:29,461 --> 00:10:35,686 And it's a case of, I'm going more along the lines of, this is, I'm in 186 00:10:35,686 --> 00:10:39,886 my head, it's, it's an alternative timeline, so it's not gonna be 187 00:10:39,886 --> 00:10:42,796 perfectly the original series. 188 00:10:43,006 --> 00:10:44,626 This is their version. 189 00:10:44,833 --> 00:10:48,163 Kevin: it is a new retelling of the same story. 190 00:10:48,526 --> 00:10:49,426 Rob: That's a good way to put it. 191 00:10:49,486 --> 00:10:49,846 Yeah. 192 00:10:50,251 --> 00:10:54,991 Um, and so, and Chapel there as well and how that balances out. 193 00:10:54,991 --> 00:10:59,791 And so him not dealing, Kirk, not dealing well with the pressure, snapping at a 194 00:10:59,791 --> 00:11:05,041 Uhura, having to come back and gain their trust again, and he has to trust himself. 195 00:11:05,251 --> 00:11:06,751 That type of stuff is really good. 196 00:11:06,751 --> 00:11:11,701 But on the same level, you've got back on the Enterprise, you've got that crew 197 00:11:11,731 --> 00:11:13,861 working at the top of their game as well. 198 00:11:14,008 --> 00:11:18,058 Kevin: Yeah, I, I was surprised at how much they fit into this one episode. 199 00:11:18,058 --> 00:11:24,178 They had two ships and two crews worth of scenes, and, uh, it worked despite that. 200 00:11:24,178 --> 00:11:28,123 We talked about last episode, feeling a, a little overstuffed with ideas 201 00:11:28,123 --> 00:11:31,663 and there wasn't enough room to really explain everything that was going on. 202 00:11:31,873 --> 00:11:33,763 This one feel felt like a better balance. 203 00:11:33,763 --> 00:11:39,313 There were definitely those effects shots missing to to fully paint the 204 00:11:39,313 --> 00:11:46,153 picture, but the story felt coherent, well contained and, and did justice 205 00:11:46,153 --> 00:11:49,513 to every one of that very large cast. 206 00:11:49,813 --> 00:11:51,553 The stuff going on on the Enterprise was great. 207 00:11:51,553 --> 00:11:55,603 I was, as soon as I, it started on the Farragut with Kirk and then we 208 00:11:55,663 --> 00:11:59,503 stranded that crew together, I was kind of like, oh, I'm gonna like this, 209 00:11:59,683 --> 00:12:03,973 but I feel a little guilty for liking it because it is pandering to me. 210 00:12:05,758 --> 00:12:09,238 I don't wanna sell out the crew of this Enterprise. 211 00:12:09,268 --> 00:12:12,958 Pike and his, his crew members, because I really like those 212 00:12:12,958 --> 00:12:16,648 characters and I feel like they deserve their stories being told. 213 00:12:16,648 --> 00:12:20,488 So anytime we're spending with the future crew of the Enterprise is 214 00:12:20,488 --> 00:12:22,888 time we're not getting with the current crew of the Enterprise. 215 00:12:22,888 --> 00:12:25,048 But they proved me wrong here. 216 00:12:25,378 --> 00:12:26,888 We struck a beautiful balance. 217 00:12:27,368 --> 00:12:32,153 think the, the Pelia fixes the communication problems with, uh, 218 00:12:32,213 --> 00:12:36,773 eighties phone technology is a definitely a lighter hearted story. 219 00:12:37,621 --> 00:12:41,101 Rob: And a reference to a pleasure device? 220 00:12:41,483 --> 00:12:41,993 Kevin: Yes. 221 00:12:42,653 --> 00:12:44,453 Well, look, you know what? 222 00:12:45,023 --> 00:12:46,668 I thought it was very well handled. 223 00:12:47,516 --> 00:12:49,141 Rob: Hey, if you know what I mean. 224 00:12:50,191 --> 00:12:53,401 Um, and I loved M'Benga's line, when he walks, he goes, Nope. 225 00:12:53,431 --> 00:12:55,621 This is how I exactly see your room. 226 00:12:55,818 --> 00:12:56,418 Kevin: I pictured it. 227 00:12:56,418 --> 00:12:56,658 Yeah. 228 00:12:57,766 --> 00:12:58,426 Rob: Um, yeah. 229 00:12:58,426 --> 00:12:59,146 And great stuff. 230 00:12:59,206 --> 00:12:59,386 Yeah. 231 00:12:59,386 --> 00:13:04,396 We had, like, we talked about it last episode, about filling the crew more with 232 00:13:04,456 --> 00:13:08,656 random crew members, and we literally had the very definition of a red 233 00:13:08,656 --> 00:13:12,136 shirt show up and get killed and then, 234 00:13:12,268 --> 00:13:12,448 Kevin: Yeah. 235 00:13:12,448 --> 00:13:14,308 We saw her face in like two shots, 236 00:13:14,446 --> 00:13:15,526 Rob: Yep, yep, yep, yep. 237 00:13:15,526 --> 00:13:19,066 And then she was there to this, this situation's real. 238 00:13:19,066 --> 00:13:20,566 We can't kill any of our guys yet. 239 00:13:20,566 --> 00:13:23,476 They're, you know, they're, they're time locked by canon. 240 00:13:24,133 --> 00:13:27,073 Kevin: Uh, fun to see La'an and, and Pike. 241 00:13:27,133 --> 00:13:30,313 That's like, I feel like every single episode is giving us these characters 242 00:13:30,313 --> 00:13:34,273 in new configurations so that we get to see new pairings of people working 243 00:13:34,273 --> 00:13:35,838 together, and it's really satisfying. 244 00:13:36,016 --> 00:13:37,666 Rob: Great clever stuff as well. 245 00:13:37,936 --> 00:13:42,226 Uh, like, you know, using the alcohol to and phasering the alcohol. 246 00:13:42,253 --> 00:13:45,313 Kevin: Apparently phasers and alcohol go boom. 247 00:13:45,496 --> 00:13:46,036 Rob: Go boom. 248 00:13:46,211 --> 00:13:47,026 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 249 00:13:47,536 --> 00:13:50,596 You know, alcohol can be used, uh, as an explosive device, 250 00:13:50,596 --> 00:13:52,336 but with a phaser chika-boom. 251 00:13:52,486 --> 00:13:57,691 And that moment of, that moment of, you know, let's set our, you 252 00:13:57,691 --> 00:14:00,211 know, set our, our phasers to kill. 253 00:14:00,361 --> 00:14:02,161 You're there going, all right, this is real. 254 00:14:02,161 --> 00:14:05,791 And talking about projectiles, so there's hints all the way through 255 00:14:05,791 --> 00:14:12,361 about what the, the actual identity of these scavengers, uh, are, is 256 00:14:12,391 --> 00:14:16,921 filtered throughout and makes it even more, you know, horrifying at the end. 257 00:14:17,623 --> 00:14:19,453 Kevin: Yeah, it, it was, um. 258 00:14:20,008 --> 00:14:25,348 I think judging it as a completed story, it is really satisfying. 259 00:14:25,378 --> 00:14:30,148 Rewatching the episode, knowing what the reveal is gonna be is really satisfying. 260 00:14:30,658 --> 00:14:37,198 Um, but the on first watching, like when they, when Pike takes off the mask and 261 00:14:37,198 --> 00:14:41,038 it's just some dude with a mustache, I'm like, are we meant to recognize that guy? 262 00:14:42,028 --> 00:14:42,628 Who is that? 263 00:14:42,778 --> 00:14:43,768 Who's it supposed to be? 264 00:14:43,948 --> 00:14:44,998 Yeah, exactly. 265 00:14:45,088 --> 00:14:46,348 I, I did have that thought. 266 00:14:46,468 --> 00:14:49,798 And then they're like, oh no, we, the whole, the point was they 267 00:14:49,798 --> 00:14:52,018 were human and I'm like, oh, okay. 268 00:14:52,078 --> 00:14:54,208 That's less satisfying than I was expecting. 269 00:14:54,301 --> 00:14:57,511 Rob: I was kind of, I was kind of picking that up when that moment 270 00:14:57,511 --> 00:15:05,071 where it sees, uh, Pike as a human and doesn't attack, doesn't kill. 271 00:15:05,383 --> 00:15:05,863 Kevin: Yes. 272 00:15:06,133 --> 00:15:09,403 Uh, I, yeah, I didn't catch that until the rewatch, myself. 273 00:15:09,433 --> 00:15:13,663 And like I said, like on the rewatch, it's very satisfying to see those me mechanics. 274 00:15:14,023 --> 00:15:18,463 Um, but in the, in the first time, like then, then they backfill the lore, 275 00:15:18,523 --> 00:15:22,603 uh, a little clumsily in the last like seven, eight minutes of the episode. 276 00:15:22,933 --> 00:15:25,753 And I was such a balance of, on the one hand, I'm like, why are 277 00:15:25,753 --> 00:15:28,018 we only finding this out later? 278 00:15:28,018 --> 00:15:29,428 It's like, here's the story. 279 00:15:29,428 --> 00:15:31,883 Now let us explain to you what it was about. 280 00:15:32,503 --> 00:15:32,723 Uh, 281 00:15:33,091 --> 00:15:36,031 Rob: It is very much a, it's a very much a Sherlock Holmes type of thing. 282 00:15:36,031 --> 00:15:39,241 Sherlock, you know, Arthur Conan Doyle was never really good at writing mysteries. 283 00:15:39,241 --> 00:15:40,711 That was an Agatha Christie thing. 284 00:15:40,891 --> 00:15:43,171 He was more, more focused on adventures. 285 00:15:43,321 --> 00:15:51,181 So he'd, um, he, all his, uh, stories were top heavy at the, at the back end. 286 00:15:51,331 --> 00:15:52,171 Because then, then 287 00:15:52,233 --> 00:15:56,908 Kevin: I'll justify everything that just happened with information you didn't have. 288 00:15:57,001 --> 00:15:57,661 Rob: Exactly. 289 00:15:57,721 --> 00:15:58,411 Yeah, exactly. 290 00:15:58,411 --> 00:16:00,211 So the clues aren't really there. 291 00:16:00,361 --> 00:16:02,851 It's just a case of, let me just explain everything. 292 00:16:03,133 --> 00:16:05,203 Kevin: That's what it felt like here as well, is the clues 293 00:16:05,203 --> 00:16:06,613 were not there for us to see. 294 00:16:06,613 --> 00:16:09,973 And that's the second time this season I have complained about a mystery 295 00:16:10,003 --> 00:16:11,653 not having the facts on the table. 296 00:16:11,983 --> 00:16:17,443 Uh, but, uh, nevertheless, I, I liked it at the same time for the world building. 297 00:16:17,493 --> 00:16:25,053 This new story of the best of us leaving, fleeing the planet to, to try to, uh, 298 00:16:25,083 --> 00:16:27,843 preserve the future of humanity, uh, 299 00:16:27,961 --> 00:16:31,261 Rob: Before Warp dr before, before Zephram Cochrane. 300 00:16:31,768 --> 00:16:32,038 Kevin: Yeah. 301 00:16:32,038 --> 00:16:37,018 Before Zephram Cochrane, before warp drive because of, uh, the climate crisis. 302 00:16:37,018 --> 00:16:40,678 And we watch this now and we go were they the best of humanity 303 00:16:40,678 --> 00:16:45,328 or were they the Elon Musks and, and, and Mr. Amazons of the world? 304 00:16:45,328 --> 00:16:48,298 Were they the billionaires fleeing the sinking ship? 305 00:16:48,448 --> 00:16:49,198 We don't know. 306 00:16:49,228 --> 00:16:54,988 Like the history obviously remembers them well, but uh, what were they at the time? 307 00:16:54,988 --> 00:16:57,928 It's like left for us to, to, to interpret. 308 00:16:58,366 --> 00:16:59,086 Rob: Not just history. 309 00:16:59,086 --> 00:17:00,406 We had Pelia there as well. 310 00:17:00,778 --> 00:17:01,138 Kevin: Yeah. 311 00:17:01,726 --> 00:17:06,736 Rob: Um, but yes, I was hoping, hoping to God they weren't the 312 00:17:06,736 --> 00:17:09,887 Bezos or, or Musk of our generation. 313 00:17:10,139 --> 00:17:13,799 Kevin: No, she, she did say she remembered like the call going out for 314 00:17:13,799 --> 00:17:17,819 the best and brightest and yeah, that is a, a cool, inspiring story that, 315 00:17:17,987 --> 00:17:23,147 Rob: That, that flip, that flip, which I loved so much, they had flips like that 316 00:17:23,177 --> 00:17:25,937 in, uh, season one, which I really loved. 317 00:17:25,937 --> 00:17:29,477 You going yep, yep, yep, and then that flip of horror and 318 00:17:29,477 --> 00:17:34,772 that realization, that hardcore sci-fi type, uh, concept explored. 319 00:17:35,012 --> 00:17:39,332 To have that moment of celebration of escaping and saving, saving the 320 00:17:39,332 --> 00:17:44,552 Enterprise, saving, uh, this planet that's gonna be devoured, saving themselves. 321 00:17:44,552 --> 00:17:49,412 And then, then that representation of 7,000 life forms, and 322 00:17:49,412 --> 00:17:50,882 they're dwindling fast. 323 00:17:50,972 --> 00:17:52,202 And you're going, oh. 324 00:17:52,772 --> 00:17:54,722 And then, and then the reveal. 325 00:17:54,722 --> 00:17:55,652 They take a time. 326 00:17:55,742 --> 00:17:56,972 So there's the hint of it. 327 00:17:57,322 --> 00:18:00,292 Then they cut to the reveal on the Enterprise. 328 00:18:00,292 --> 00:18:03,502 I think there's, they realize it on the Farragut, but they don't reveal 329 00:18:03,502 --> 00:18:05,602 it to us until on the Enterprise. 330 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:12,374 Kevin: The two money scenes in this episode for me were the, the breakdown 331 00:18:12,374 --> 00:18:15,464 on the bridge of the Farragut, where Kirk goes, I don't need more ideas. 332 00:18:15,464 --> 00:18:16,604 I don't need this chattering. 333 00:18:16,604 --> 00:18:18,674 And he, he runs off into the ready room. 334 00:18:19,034 --> 00:18:23,534 So good watching those characters that we love, we invest in, we are 335 00:18:23,534 --> 00:18:27,344 invested in their future relationship, watching them fall apart before us. 336 00:18:27,494 --> 00:18:30,884 Very satisfying, beautifully written and beautifully played. 337 00:18:31,364 --> 00:18:35,264 And then the one-on-one between Kirk and Pike at the end of the episode 338 00:18:35,264 --> 00:18:40,309 where Pike just wants to congratulate Kirk for the job he did, and Kirk 339 00:18:40,309 --> 00:18:43,729 can't take the compliment because he's beating himself up about what he 340 00:18:43,729 --> 00:18:46,969 sees as his first failure in command. 341 00:18:47,957 --> 00:18:51,887 Rob: You know, and wonderful work of not being sort of like a father 342 00:18:51,887 --> 00:18:56,357 figure or a mentor, just a captain who's had more experience at it. 343 00:18:56,507 --> 00:18:58,577 Just going, you gotta, you know. 344 00:18:58,944 --> 00:18:59,234 Kevin: Yeah. 345 00:18:59,719 --> 00:19:00,679 You take the wins with the 346 00:19:01,037 --> 00:19:04,307 Rob: You take the win, you're gonna have more wins and more losses coming. 347 00:19:04,307 --> 00:19:07,097 And um, um, incredible stuff. 348 00:19:07,097 --> 00:19:10,217 Beautifully written and beautiful realization of the characters. 349 00:19:10,217 --> 00:19:14,387 Not this sense of, you know, no patronizing tone, no sense of, 350 00:19:14,627 --> 00:19:17,777 it was just a case of two people 351 00:19:17,849 --> 00:19:19,499 Kevin: Very different captains as well. 352 00:19:19,499 --> 00:19:22,859 Like you can feel the, the, when, when the Enterprise shows 353 00:19:22,859 --> 00:19:24,119 up and Pike's on the screen. 354 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:25,719 He is like, tell me what you do know. 355 00:19:25,859 --> 00:19:27,089 Okay, we gotta get you out of there. 356 00:19:27,089 --> 00:19:32,234 Like he's so business efficient, matter of fact, and Kirk is 357 00:19:32,234 --> 00:19:35,114 so warm and and emotional. 358 00:19:35,114 --> 00:19:37,004 And you're like, they are both right. 359 00:19:37,004 --> 00:19:39,464 They're both good captains and they're different from each other. 360 00:19:39,464 --> 00:19:40,304 It's amazing. 361 00:19:40,337 --> 00:19:42,137 Rob: Great line, he goes, I know how you feel. 362 00:19:42,137 --> 00:19:42,737 You're the captain. 363 00:19:42,737 --> 00:19:44,327 You wanna stay with your ship, you wanna go? 364 00:19:44,417 --> 00:19:45,887 Yeah, but we gotta get you out. 365 00:19:46,154 --> 00:19:47,024 Kevin: It's the right call. 366 00:19:47,024 --> 00:19:47,804 It's the right call. 367 00:19:47,834 --> 00:19:49,154 He says, ah, so good. 368 00:19:49,204 --> 00:19:52,354 This is my favorite episode of the season so far. 369 00:19:52,504 --> 00:19:54,784 It is a highlight of the series overall. 370 00:19:54,994 --> 00:19:59,854 This is a, a, a, like this one goes down in my rewatch list for sure. 371 00:20:00,514 --> 00:20:06,199 It's, uh, and I love it for being a serious situation with a serious 372 00:20:06,199 --> 00:20:08,569 crew taking the situation seriously. 373 00:20:08,569 --> 00:20:13,649 Like this professional workplace drama in the future is what I 374 00:20:13,649 --> 00:20:17,099 show up for at in Star Trek and it, they gave it to us this week. 375 00:20:17,237 --> 00:20:20,597 Rob: And elements of comedy that didn't, you know, that were balanced well. 376 00:20:21,239 --> 00:20:22,799 Kevin: Yeah, the pink phone on the bridge. 377 00:20:22,829 --> 00:20:24,809 Absurd, hilarious. 378 00:20:24,869 --> 00:20:29,639 But it's a sight gag with all the characters playing it completely straight. 379 00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:30,479 It is amazing. 380 00:20:30,527 --> 00:20:36,467 Rob: And you've got what M'Benga and, and, uh, Number One operating joysticks 381 00:20:36,467 --> 00:20:41,417 to control the, yeah, just and the line you are scrapping on the inside 382 00:20:43,634 --> 00:20:44,264 Kevin: So good. 383 00:20:44,397 --> 00:20:45,687 Rob: Very Galaxy Quest. 384 00:20:45,774 --> 00:20:46,794 Kevin: Yes, indeed. 385 00:20:47,064 --> 00:20:51,144 Uh, but we didn't get the, we did get the, the shot in Galaxy Quest. 386 00:20:51,144 --> 00:20:52,194 We didn't get to see it here 387 00:20:52,392 --> 00:20:52,782 Rob: Too much. 388 00:20:52,782 --> 00:20:57,792 Too much money was spent on that opening bubble warp, uh, bubble uh shield. 389 00:20:58,314 --> 00:21:03,474 Kevin: Yeah, so this was so good that I, I basically, I, I already assume this is 390 00:21:03,474 --> 00:21:05,904 the best this season is gonna give us. 391 00:21:05,907 --> 00:21:06,732 Rob: Most probably, most probably. 392 00:21:07,194 --> 00:21:10,434 Kevin: Yeah, like I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, but if 393 00:21:10,434 --> 00:21:14,904 anything even approaches this standard, I will be pleasantly surprised. 394 00:21:15,144 --> 00:21:20,784 Not because I, I, I dislike the show, but just I feel like what it's going 395 00:21:20,784 --> 00:21:25,344 for is less this and more everything else we've, we've gotten this season. 396 00:21:25,344 --> 00:21:30,804 So I, I ex, I think next week is the too many Vulcans episode and so it's 397 00:21:30,804 --> 00:21:32,634 gonna be back to Vulcan Hijinks. 398 00:21:33,132 --> 00:21:35,742 Rob: Next week is, uh, do you wanna know the title? 399 00:21:35,844 --> 00:21:36,264 Kevin: Sure. 400 00:21:36,912 --> 00:21:38,852 Rob: What is Starfleet? 401 00:21:39,324 --> 00:21:40,254 Kevin: Oh, you know what? 402 00:21:40,254 --> 00:21:41,934 That does sound serious, doesn't it? 403 00:21:42,462 --> 00:21:44,892 Rob: Or it does sound like a documentary that might be shown. 404 00:21:45,084 --> 00:21:46,854 Kevin: Oh my gosh, it does. 405 00:21:46,884 --> 00:21:47,304 Okay. 406 00:21:47,304 --> 00:21:50,814 It's gonna be the meta, uh, interview episode. 407 00:21:50,844 --> 00:21:56,094 I wonder how they will separate it from our Lower Decks, uh, uh, documentary. 408 00:21:56,142 --> 00:21:56,622 Rob: right. 409 00:21:56,742 --> 00:21:57,382 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 410 00:21:57,852 --> 00:21:58,242 We wait and see. 411 00:21:58,482 --> 00:22:02,562 So, uh, what is our topic that we have, uh, based our, uh, 412 00:22:02,814 --> 00:22:05,424 Kevin: We've got a topic we've been talking about this episode so long. 413 00:22:05,424 --> 00:22:07,044 I completely forgot we had a topic. 414 00:22:07,044 --> 00:22:07,224 Our 415 00:22:07,332 --> 00:22:08,202 Rob: It was a good one. 416 00:22:08,262 --> 00:22:08,352 It 417 00:22:08,394 --> 00:22:09,744 Kevin: yeah, it was. 418 00:22:09,924 --> 00:22:10,584 Worthy. 419 00:22:10,764 --> 00:22:15,714 Uh, the use of ancient technology, which is, uh, the contents of 420 00:22:15,744 --> 00:22:17,694 Pelia's quarters in this episode. 421 00:22:18,432 --> 00:22:18,972 Rob: Yes. 422 00:22:18,972 --> 00:22:19,527 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 423 00:22:19,692 --> 00:22:24,672 I, I, I like the, uh, the, the loose, the loose strings that we 424 00:22:24,672 --> 00:22:27,042 attach to have our con conversations. 425 00:22:27,522 --> 00:22:30,822 Where did, where, where did you go for your, uh, episode? 426 00:22:31,089 --> 00:22:32,649 Kevin: I went to the original series, again. 427 00:22:32,649 --> 00:22:34,929 I'm on an original series kick at the moment. 428 00:22:34,929 --> 00:22:38,859 I'm challenging myself to think of the earliest example of these things 429 00:22:38,859 --> 00:22:40,179 that I can come up with at the moment. 430 00:22:40,737 --> 00:22:41,187 Rob: Excellent. 431 00:22:41,187 --> 00:22:42,957 What have we got to, uh, talk about? 432 00:22:43,044 --> 00:22:47,104 Kevin: We are in season three of the original series, six, Spectre 433 00:22:47,124 --> 00:22:53,214 of the Gun, which fans will remember as the showdown at the OK Corral. 434 00:22:54,162 --> 00:22:54,552 Rob: Hey. 435 00:22:54,552 --> 00:22:58,427 Well it is season three, so we are always a bit tentative when we go into 436 00:22:58,427 --> 00:23:00,987 this caution of, of what is to come. 437 00:23:01,494 --> 00:23:04,884 Kevin: I think this is a strong one for season three, definitely. 438 00:23:04,884 --> 00:23:10,224 But you can, you can also see the, the formula starting to fray. 439 00:23:10,644 --> 00:23:15,384 This is played on a Paramount western backlot, largely with, uh, 440 00:23:15,954 --> 00:23:21,804 because they, the, the Enterprise is ordered to make contact with this 441 00:23:21,804 --> 00:23:23,934 race whether they like it or not. 442 00:23:24,534 --> 00:23:28,929 And as they approach this planet, the, a buoy comes out and says, Turn 443 00:23:28,929 --> 00:23:30,939 back, this will be your only warning. 444 00:23:31,059 --> 00:23:34,119 Uh, and Kirk goes, well, we have our orders. 445 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:34,599 Let's go. 446 00:23:36,222 --> 00:23:37,422 Rob: Classic Kirk. 447 00:23:37,572 --> 00:23:38,622 Classic. 448 00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:43,569 Kevin: Um, and they, uh, for their disobedience, they get transported down 449 00:23:43,569 --> 00:23:49,714 onto the planet and the alien, uh, you know, which is a puppet bathe in colored 450 00:23:49,714 --> 00:23:54,034 lights, uh, tells them off for their transgression and tells Captain Kirk 451 00:23:54,034 --> 00:24:00,874 that as the one responsible, the pattern of their punishment will be, uh, his. 452 00:24:01,714 --> 00:24:03,124 And they don't know what that means. 453 00:24:03,124 --> 00:24:09,214 But suddenly, uh, they are teleported into what seems at first glance to be the 454 00:24:09,214 --> 00:24:12,244 main street of a western frontier town. 455 00:24:12,709 --> 00:24:15,979 But as they take in the scenery, they realize that the fronts of 456 00:24:15,979 --> 00:24:19,609 the buildings are really just facades held up by plywood. 457 00:24:19,789 --> 00:24:24,529 And so, so there, there's a line of, it's, it's just snippets and, 458 00:24:24,589 --> 00:24:29,939 and someone goes probably just all they needed to ensure our execution. 459 00:24:31,264 --> 00:24:38,224 They learn pretty quickly that they are standing in as the Clanton gang, uh, who 460 00:24:38,284 --> 00:24:45,814 will meet the Earps at the OK Corral at 5:00 PM for the historical, uh, gunfight 461 00:24:45,874 --> 00:24:48,374 in which the Clantons are killed. 462 00:24:49,202 --> 00:24:51,482 Rob: Going full Western mythology. 463 00:24:51,719 --> 00:24:53,129 Kevin: Full Western mythology. 464 00:24:53,129 --> 00:24:53,369 Yeah. 465 00:24:53,369 --> 00:24:57,179 They, each of the characters is, is like given their, their equivalent. 466 00:24:57,179 --> 00:25:02,249 And we get to meet these guest actors who are playing Wyatt Earp 467 00:25:02,249 --> 00:25:06,569 and Doc Holiday and, and all of, uh, the, the rest of the, uh, the Earp 468 00:25:07,199 --> 00:25:10,489 gang in Tombstone, Arizona, 1881. 469 00:25:10,562 --> 00:25:11,192 Rob: Year was this? 470 00:25:11,192 --> 00:25:12,632 This is the third season, so this is. 471 00:25:13,214 --> 00:25:14,699 Kevin: 69, I 472 00:25:14,777 --> 00:25:19,877 Rob: 69 because, um, Dr. Who bring it back to Dr. Who, they did an episode 473 00:25:19,877 --> 00:25:25,997 in season three, which would be 66, um, called the Gunfighters, where The Doctor, 474 00:25:25,997 --> 00:25:31,307 Steven and Dodo go to Tombstone and meet Doc Holiday and Wyatt Earp and go to. 475 00:25:32,027 --> 00:25:32,597 Yeah. 476 00:25:32,657 --> 00:25:34,547 Couple of years before, uh, Star Trek did it. 477 00:25:34,649 --> 00:25:35,429 Kevin: Sometimes, yeah. 478 00:25:35,429 --> 00:25:39,389 These old stories come back into the, the collective consciousness 479 00:25:39,389 --> 00:25:43,379 all at the same time, and then we get these, these sci-fi stories picking 480 00:25:43,379 --> 00:25:45,239 up on them all at the same moment. 481 00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:46,199 It's very interesting. 482 00:25:47,219 --> 00:25:51,429 Anyway, Captain Kirk, obviously, and crew set about trying to 483 00:25:51,604 --> 00:25:56,159 convince the the townsfolk that they are actually astronauts from 484 00:25:56,159 --> 00:25:58,439 the future and no one is having it. 485 00:25:58,819 --> 00:26:02,929 Uh, except for Chekov, whose eye as usual is on the girl. 486 00:26:02,959 --> 00:26:03,919 There is, uh, 487 00:26:04,352 --> 00:26:05,252 Rob: Of course. 488 00:26:05,389 --> 00:26:09,079 Kevin: is a young lady who is in love with his, uh, Billy Claiborne. 489 00:26:09,739 --> 00:26:16,424 And Chekov is goaded into a premature showdown on the street 490 00:26:16,424 --> 00:26:18,344 in which he is shot and killed. 491 00:26:18,884 --> 00:26:23,774 Uh, and so Kirk and the remaining crew, which is McCoy and Spock 492 00:26:23,774 --> 00:26:27,284 and Scotty, they're like, oh, well, I guess we can die here. 493 00:26:28,889 --> 00:26:31,589 And so they start hatching a plan for how they are going to 494 00:26:31,589 --> 00:26:33,449 survive this eventual gunfight. 495 00:26:33,449 --> 00:26:36,899 They continue to, to try to talk their way out of it, and the scenes are really 496 00:26:36,899 --> 00:26:42,179 fun for that, like McCoy visits Doc Holiday and the the barber slash dentist 497 00:26:42,179 --> 00:26:47,799 to, to try and talk some sense into Doc Holiday as a physician, but Doc Holiday's, 498 00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:52,329 like, I'll see you at 5:00 PM Well, I'll put some lead in your head with 499 00:26:52,329 --> 00:26:55,089 this gun, like completely implacable. 500 00:26:55,419 --> 00:27:00,519 And uh, Kirk goes to the authorities, he goes and tries to, to plead his 501 00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:04,409 case to the sheriff and the sheriff's like, What are you talking about? 502 00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:07,919 You've been looking for this opportunity to take out the Earps forever. 503 00:27:08,089 --> 00:27:10,249 It's too late to get yellow bellied now. 504 00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:12,859 The law will completely look the other way. 505 00:27:12,859 --> 00:27:14,209 You have my assurance. 506 00:27:15,589 --> 00:27:21,979 So it, it is lots of fun to watch these lay like, um, idealistic Star Trek 507 00:27:21,979 --> 00:27:26,599 characters try to talk their way out of the carnage that inevitably awaits them. 508 00:27:26,812 --> 00:27:29,732 Rob: And it's amazing to think, you know, because the, you know, 509 00:27:29,792 --> 00:27:34,412 urban legend is this was, you know, pushed as wagon train in space. 510 00:27:34,412 --> 00:27:36,842 So it's a western in space to make it go. 511 00:27:36,842 --> 00:27:40,772 So to have our Venn diagram is pretty much overlapping completely 512 00:27:41,129 --> 00:27:41,429 Kevin: Yeah. 513 00:27:41,429 --> 00:27:44,699 All of these actors would've starred in numerous Westerns 514 00:27:44,699 --> 00:27:49,229 around this time, especially, uh, uh, Deforest Kelly as McCoy. 515 00:27:49,229 --> 00:27:51,749 He was known for his career in the Westerns. 516 00:27:52,247 --> 00:27:55,127 Rob: And that was pretty much, that's what kept the, uh, the engine 517 00:27:55,127 --> 00:27:58,157 running on television and in the cinemas in America at the moment. 518 00:27:58,157 --> 00:28:00,472 It was, uh, Western's a hoy hoy. 519 00:28:00,864 --> 00:28:05,324 Kevin: Yeah, so playing a faux western here, like the fish out of water, the 520 00:28:05,324 --> 00:28:11,894 fish in a Western, uh, is an amazing kind of like, layering of, of stuff 521 00:28:11,894 --> 00:28:14,084 here that is really satisfying to watch. 522 00:28:14,684 --> 00:28:19,514 Uh, they are, they're all equipped with guns with, with six shooters 523 00:28:19,514 --> 00:28:22,064 that they admire as amazing specimens. 524 00:28:22,094 --> 00:28:26,414 And, uh, and Scotty of course wants to shoot his way out of the situation. 525 00:28:26,414 --> 00:28:29,144 He's like, well, we'll, we'll just have to take them on. 526 00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:31,759 Kirk goes, their, their expert gunsmen. 527 00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:33,189 We'll be dead in a moment. 528 00:28:33,189 --> 00:28:36,069 And, and it's, it played very realistically. 529 00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:39,429 Kirk also makes the point that the guns were given to them by the aliens. 530 00:28:39,429 --> 00:28:43,269 So they're obviously meant as, you know, instruments of their demise. 531 00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:46,599 So they set aside the idea of shooting their way out of the situation right 532 00:28:46,599 --> 00:28:48,489 away, and start to use their brains. 533 00:28:48,639 --> 00:28:50,614 The first thing they try to do is leave town. 534 00:28:50,734 --> 00:28:53,884 But there's a force field at the edge of town, so you're not leaving town. 535 00:28:54,694 --> 00:28:57,544 The next thing they try to do is make a tranquilizer grenade. 536 00:28:57,964 --> 00:29:02,014 Doc Holiday is happy to lend them some supplies. 537 00:29:02,014 --> 00:29:04,714 He's like, doesn't matter, I'm shooting you at 5:00 PM anyway. 538 00:29:04,714 --> 00:29:05,554 Take whatever you want. 539 00:29:05,884 --> 00:29:12,814 And uh, they McCoy cooks up a a, uh, tranquilizer gas that Spock creates a 540 00:29:12,814 --> 00:29:17,794 grenade for using instruments available to them at the time, the ancient 541 00:29:17,794 --> 00:29:19,954 technology we are here to discuss. 542 00:29:20,162 --> 00:29:20,432 Rob: done. 543 00:29:20,432 --> 00:29:20,972 Well done. 544 00:29:21,434 --> 00:29:24,854 Kevin: Then there's 10 minutes to go and Kirk goes, so how do you know it'll work? 545 00:29:25,034 --> 00:29:26,534 Uh, how is it tested? 546 00:29:26,534 --> 00:29:28,904 And McCoy and Spock go you don't need to test it. 547 00:29:28,934 --> 00:29:29,624 It's physics. 548 00:29:29,624 --> 00:29:30,614 It can't fail. 549 00:29:31,274 --> 00:29:33,674 And Kirk goes, everything else we've tried has failed. 550 00:29:33,674 --> 00:29:34,454 We're testing it. 551 00:29:34,544 --> 00:29:40,334 And Scotty volunteers as on one condition that I am awake and alert 552 00:29:40,334 --> 00:29:42,524 at 5:00 PM to to be there with you. 553 00:29:42,524 --> 00:29:43,874 And it's so heroic. 554 00:29:44,699 --> 00:29:48,719 Scotty puts his face over the, uh, the grenade and breathes 555 00:29:48,719 --> 00:29:50,459 deeply and nothing happens. 556 00:29:50,669 --> 00:29:55,349 And this, this is the solution that Spock was looking for, that if this 557 00:29:55,349 --> 00:30:00,629 gas that could not possibly fail, failed, then nothing here is real. 558 00:30:01,499 --> 00:30:05,549 And nothing, nothing is there to kill them. 559 00:30:05,969 --> 00:30:08,579 Uh, Spock is like, well, now I know the bullets aren't 560 00:30:08,579 --> 00:30:09,809 real, so they can't hurt me. 561 00:30:09,809 --> 00:30:13,304 And the humans are like, we'd have to be as sure as you. 562 00:30:13,304 --> 00:30:18,254 And Spock goes, if there is the slightest doubt, it'll be enough to kill you. 563 00:30:19,484 --> 00:30:22,184 So of course, the solution is mind melds for everyone. 564 00:30:22,184 --> 00:30:22,244 S, 565 00:30:24,629 --> 00:30:28,409 Spock hypnotizes everyone into being absolutely certain the bullets aren't 566 00:30:28,409 --> 00:30:33,479 real and they stand in front of the Earps who shoot guns, and we see a, a, a shot 567 00:30:33,479 --> 00:30:37,229 from behind as our heroic crew stand there in front of a wooden fence, and 568 00:30:37,229 --> 00:30:41,099 the wooden fence is pelted with bullets and bullet holes are riddled in it, and 569 00:30:41,099 --> 00:30:43,709 they stand there completely unaffected. 570 00:30:44,039 --> 00:30:44,454 The end. 571 00:30:45,294 --> 00:30:50,124 Uh, the, uh, the Melkotians, who are the aliens in question, are so impressed by 572 00:30:50,124 --> 00:30:54,384 the restraint of the humans to not, to not fight for their lives, to not try and 573 00:30:54,384 --> 00:30:58,344 take their take lives in order to preserve their own, that they go, you know what? 574 00:30:58,464 --> 00:30:59,544 Come on down. 575 00:30:59,544 --> 00:31:00,504 Let's be friends. 576 00:31:00,782 --> 00:31:02,477 Rob: Oh, amazing. 577 00:31:02,477 --> 00:31:02,897 Look at that. 578 00:31:02,897 --> 00:31:03,767 A happy ending 579 00:31:03,944 --> 00:31:04,454 Kevin: Yeah. 580 00:31:05,234 --> 00:31:08,814 Uh, but yes, I always remember Scotty like breathing the fumes and 581 00:31:08,814 --> 00:31:10,884 going, something meant to happen? 582 00:31:10,944 --> 00:31:14,694 Uh, it it fun little scene of the grenade not working. 583 00:31:14,892 --> 00:31:19,332 Rob: Amazing, amazing wagon train in space, actually going western. 584 00:31:19,482 --> 00:31:19,992 Love it. 585 00:31:20,304 --> 00:31:20,694 Kevin: Mm-hmm. 586 00:31:21,072 --> 00:31:24,852 Rob: Well, I went ahead to Voyager, back to Voyager. 587 00:31:24,852 --> 00:31:26,892 I seem to be going back to Voyager quite a lot. 588 00:31:27,222 --> 00:31:31,652 Um, season four, episode 20, Vis à Vis. 589 00:31:31,704 --> 00:31:33,364 Kevin: Vis à Vis, you'll have to refresh my memory. 590 00:31:34,002 --> 00:31:38,142 Rob: Now this is a, this is a, uh, well, I, the only way I could get to, I really 591 00:31:38,142 --> 00:31:43,692 wanted to get to that ancient technology that's connected within our time zone. 592 00:31:43,932 --> 00:31:49,422 And one of the characters who I knew was obsessed with this our time period or a 593 00:31:49,422 --> 00:31:52,152 little bit before obviously was Tom Paris. 594 00:31:52,209 --> 00:31:54,099 Kevin: We've talked about this recently with his black and 595 00:31:54,099 --> 00:31:55,479 white TV at the end of the bed. 596 00:31:55,572 --> 00:31:57,522 Rob: Yeah, black and white TV at the end of the bed. 597 00:31:57,522 --> 00:32:01,932 And he like creates the hologram of, um, the Irish village. 598 00:32:02,112 --> 00:32:04,602 He does, you know, um, uh, 599 00:32:04,629 --> 00:32:05,419 Kevin: Dr. Chaotica. 600 00:32:05,419 --> 00:32:07,039 Rob: Dr. Chaotica. 601 00:32:07,392 --> 00:32:09,882 So this is the one that I remember vividly. 602 00:32:09,882 --> 00:32:15,072 I remember him working on a car, working on a car, working on a roadster. 603 00:32:15,102 --> 00:32:17,742 He wants to, you know, he wants to be a grease monkey as 604 00:32:17,742 --> 00:32:19,332 they talk about, I remember. 605 00:32:20,442 --> 00:32:26,142 You know him walking around on the, on, on the deck in full overalls with gr 606 00:32:26,202 --> 00:32:29,832 with oil on his face, even though it's hologram oil, so it should go off, but 607 00:32:29,832 --> 00:32:31,482 maybe it's done by the same liquid as the 608 00:32:31,659 --> 00:32:31,959 Kevin: Yeah. 609 00:32:31,959 --> 00:32:32,139 Yeah. 610 00:32:32,139 --> 00:32:33,369 The liquids are permanent 611 00:32:33,417 --> 00:32:34,947 Rob: Yes, exactly. 612 00:32:35,637 --> 00:32:41,257 Um, so, so yeah, had a bit of a deep dive and a search, and I found, uh, Vis à Vis. 613 00:32:41,277 --> 00:32:46,737 So it's not the main focus of the episode, it's sort of like used to solve a problem. 614 00:32:46,737 --> 00:32:50,877 So it opens with Paris working in a garage on his car. 615 00:32:51,417 --> 00:32:56,817 Um, this is of the era where he's, um, assistant to the Doctor because since, um, 616 00:32:56,859 --> 00:32:57,099 Kevin: Wow. 617 00:32:57,099 --> 00:32:58,059 Yeah, early stuff. 618 00:32:58,059 --> 00:32:59,559 So this is pre Delta Flyer. 619 00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:01,689 This is before he gets a real space hot rod. 620 00:33:02,217 --> 00:33:04,707 Rob: Fly is mentioned, so it's in the early stages of it. 621 00:33:04,707 --> 00:33:08,427 But yeah, he's sort of like, what, he's got commitments with the 622 00:33:08,427 --> 00:33:11,217 Doctor in, um, in, in the hospital. 623 00:33:11,427 --> 00:33:14,667 So I think he's, he's on, he's on probation for something he's done. 624 00:33:15,087 --> 00:33:17,967 Um, and so he comes onto the deck. 625 00:33:18,267 --> 00:33:21,867 He's spending a lot of time in, because he's with B'Elanna at this point as well. 626 00:33:21,987 --> 00:33:26,247 So he comes on and they come across a ship that can warp in and out of 627 00:33:26,817 --> 00:33:32,262 time, and they're using a coaxial device, which was mentioned. 628 00:33:32,262 --> 00:33:35,922 He the only class he paid attention to at the academy, that means 629 00:33:35,922 --> 00:33:39,402 you can travel instantly from one part of the galaxy to the next. 630 00:33:39,642 --> 00:33:40,422 Uh, and, but 631 00:33:40,434 --> 00:33:42,204 Kevin: This is sounding very Threshold, Rob. 632 00:33:44,592 --> 00:33:48,967 Rob: Do we dare see a grease monkey slug of Paris again? 633 00:33:49,627 --> 00:33:53,544 Um, and so the uh, crew member is a test pilot, using this 634 00:33:53,544 --> 00:33:54,864 from travel to place to place. 635 00:33:55,164 --> 00:34:01,734 They have to find a solution so that the coaxial energy is, um, can stabilize 636 00:34:02,094 --> 00:34:09,049 and, um, Paris thinks outside the box and takes him, takes this passenger Steth 637 00:34:09,324 --> 00:34:15,314 to, um, his garage and he uses 1950s, sixties, seventies, carbureted engine, 638 00:34:15,674 --> 00:34:22,394 um, uh, technology and the theory of that and incorporates it to filter it and 639 00:34:22,604 --> 00:34:28,694 how a, an engine in a car works, use it to, um, to make this, uh, device work. 640 00:34:29,084 --> 00:34:34,284 And so that's really clever, using stuff from ancient, uh, uh, 641 00:34:34,284 --> 00:34:39,444 you know, uh, combustion engine cars, um, to solve a problem in 642 00:34:39,444 --> 00:34:41,124 the, you know, in the far future. 643 00:34:41,454 --> 00:34:44,754 Um, then of course, this test pilot isn't a test pilot. 644 00:34:44,754 --> 00:34:49,374 He steals people's bodies, he steals Tom's body and, and, and puts Tom body 645 00:34:49,374 --> 00:34:53,634 in the, in the ship as it flies off, and then the people whose original body is 646 00:34:54,101 --> 00:34:55,991 Kevin: Bit of a body snatcher episode as well. 647 00:34:55,996 --> 00:34:56,276 This one 648 00:34:56,454 --> 00:34:59,214 Rob: snare, a little bit, little bit switch. 649 00:34:59,364 --> 00:35:04,194 It's like kind of possession, but sort of like the, the thief touches someone 650 00:35:04,614 --> 00:35:09,864 and takes their body and then the body he's taken takes the original body. 651 00:35:10,164 --> 00:35:13,194 So it's a case of this has been going on for 652 00:35:13,416 --> 00:35:14,166 Kevin: Not possession. 653 00:35:14,166 --> 00:35:14,856 It's body swap. 654 00:35:14,856 --> 00:35:14,976 It's 655 00:35:15,144 --> 00:35:15,384 Rob: Its. 656 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,279 It, it's, yeah, body transfer. 657 00:35:18,279 --> 00:35:23,289 So the, so the person who was in the original body has come to get his, 658 00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:27,369 their body back, but then that body has to be returned to the original body. 659 00:35:27,369 --> 00:35:34,434 So this, this thief who's stealing bodies, his or his original body 660 00:35:34,434 --> 00:35:36,234 is like, could be a hundred. 661 00:35:36,234 --> 00:35:36,414 Yeah. 662 00:35:36,474 --> 00:35:36,774 Yeah. 663 00:35:36,984 --> 00:35:39,294 So anyway, that, that all sorts itself out. 664 00:35:39,294 --> 00:35:45,204 And Tom is possessed or taken over and so he's acting very strangely and like hits 665 00:35:45,204 --> 00:35:50,844 on uh, Seven of Nine and like threatens, uh, but then threatens Seven of Nine 666 00:35:50,844 --> 00:35:53,754 and like almost chokes, B'Elanna um. 667 00:35:54,849 --> 00:35:59,139 Uh, but yeah, the main focus of why I foc picked this episode was, um, 668 00:35:59,169 --> 00:36:05,739 Paris's obsession with, uh, our modern era technology is used to, uh, save 669 00:36:05,739 --> 00:36:08,739 the day in, uh, in the far future. 670 00:36:09,081 --> 00:36:13,191 Kevin: The Memory Alpha article I'm reading of this episode sums it up 671 00:36:13,191 --> 00:36:16,141 in one line, which is Paris decides to hit the shuttlecraft's polaric 672 00:36:16,161 --> 00:36:21,801 modulator with a chromoelectric pulse to disable its carburetor, in quotes. 673 00:36:21,891 --> 00:36:26,271 And, uh, that, you know, on the page in black and white, sounds like 674 00:36:26,271 --> 00:36:28,251 a bunch of Treknobabble nonsense. 675 00:36:28,311 --> 00:36:30,591 Is it, is it satisfying? 676 00:36:30,591 --> 00:36:31,941 Does it work in the episode? 677 00:36:32,169 --> 00:36:36,849 Rob: Um, yeah, I find it quite cool, especially 'cause they ingrain it 678 00:36:36,849 --> 00:36:40,539 so much into Tom's DNA and that's one of the only few things I find 679 00:36:40,539 --> 00:36:42,489 fascinating about him as a character. 680 00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:47,989 Like there's a scene earlier on where he misses a date with B'Elanna and B'Elanna's 681 00:36:48,009 --> 00:36:52,899 clearly annoyed as, as she has every right to be, and he starts getting emotional and 682 00:36:52,929 --> 00:36:55,389 angry and starts saying she's emotional. 683 00:36:55,659 --> 00:37:00,084 And as a half Klingon, she's being very restrained and being very reasonable 684 00:37:00,084 --> 00:37:03,984 and just wanting to talk about something that she's annoyed by, and he's being 685 00:37:04,014 --> 00:37:07,404 incredibly unreasonable and saying, oh look, you're getting all emotional. 686 00:37:07,404 --> 00:37:11,154 I'm there going, I don't really like this character. 687 00:37:12,024 --> 00:37:12,864 Um, 688 00:37:12,981 --> 00:37:15,111 Kevin: Paris, that happens with Paris a lot. 689 00:37:15,171 --> 00:37:18,051 He, they, they keep, oh, they keep just like crossing that 690 00:37:18,051 --> 00:37:20,151 line, un unintentionally. 691 00:37:20,274 --> 00:37:20,694 Rob: Yeah. 692 00:37:20,724 --> 00:37:22,884 And it's very much a case of, it's more of. 693 00:37:24,024 --> 00:37:29,424 It's very telling of the time that I'm there going is are we meant to 694 00:37:29,476 --> 00:37:30,691 Kevin: B'Elanna can do so much better. 695 00:37:31,024 --> 00:37:32,364 Rob: B'Elanna could do so much better. 696 00:37:32,514 --> 00:37:36,684 We there going, is this, are we meant to sympathize with Tom Paris here? 697 00:37:37,674 --> 00:37:41,514 Because then he's possessed and taken over by uh, uh Steth and 698 00:37:41,514 --> 00:37:47,589 he's even worse and you're going, so we want the good Tom Paris. 699 00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:48,429 Is that good? 700 00:37:48,909 --> 00:37:52,719 Um, and shout out the actor playing, uh, Steth is, uh, Dan Butler, 701 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,329 who is uh, Bulldog on Frasier. 702 00:37:54,579 --> 00:37:55,329 Great actor. 703 00:37:55,449 --> 00:37:57,189 Great actor, wonderful actor. 704 00:37:57,579 --> 00:38:01,359 Um, so yeah, it's a, that little moment was quite, um, 705 00:38:01,449 --> 00:38:04,089 remarkable in a standard episode. 706 00:38:04,089 --> 00:38:07,869 It's one that focuses on Tom Paris, so I wasn't really that invested. 707 00:38:08,436 --> 00:38:08,886 Kevin: Yeah, no. 708 00:38:08,916 --> 00:38:09,546 Fun one though. 709 00:38:09,546 --> 00:38:12,786 It's, it is nice to pull these, these, for me, like this is a 710 00:38:12,786 --> 00:38:14,406 forgotten episode of Voyager. 711 00:38:14,436 --> 00:38:19,686 And uh, yeah, I think, I think I said last week that Return to Tomorrow in Star 712 00:38:19,686 --> 00:38:21,331 Trek was one that is often forgotten. 713 00:38:21,331 --> 00:38:25,201 These, these not so splashy episodes that are still like, you know, a solid 714 00:38:25,201 --> 00:38:29,221 week at the office at Star of Star Trek, uh, they're fun to be reminded of. 715 00:38:29,484 --> 00:38:33,384 Rob: Yeah, because I was kind of looking at, uh, one in the later seasons, which is 716 00:38:33,384 --> 00:38:39,384 Alice, where it's about the, they go to a junkyard and they find a, a, a ship there. 717 00:38:39,444 --> 00:38:39,624 no, 718 00:38:39,751 --> 00:38:40,171 Kevin: Yeah. 719 00:38:40,171 --> 00:38:45,421 The, the sentient ship that, uh, yeah, it gets all of its, uh, plugs into Paris. 720 00:38:45,451 --> 00:38:45,751 Yeah. 721 00:38:45,849 --> 00:38:49,989 Rob: Delta Flyer is mentioned in that episode, so not in season four. 722 00:38:49,989 --> 00:38:52,179 Season four is before the Delta Flyer, you're right. 723 00:38:52,779 --> 00:38:57,309 Um, and so that one I'm there going, yeah, there's mention of like the, the working 724 00:38:57,309 --> 00:39:00,939 he does on mechanics in the holodeck, but we don't actually see it here. 725 00:39:00,939 --> 00:39:04,869 We see him working on this, uh, ship and how it takes over his body and 726 00:39:04,869 --> 00:39:09,269 creates this persona of Alice that he, you know, is taken over by, but 727 00:39:09,269 --> 00:39:11,069 it isn't really ancient technology. 728 00:39:11,069 --> 00:39:15,939 So I stopped watching that and moved on to, uh, to Vis à Vis. 729 00:39:16,116 --> 00:39:16,926 Kevin: Hmm. 730 00:39:17,046 --> 00:39:19,506 Well thank you for the trip down memory lane. 731 00:39:19,529 --> 00:39:22,439 Rob: Well, and thank you very much for a very wholehearted, uh, 732 00:39:22,709 --> 00:39:26,619 and hearty discussion about, yes, clearly the strongest episode of, 733 00:39:26,999 --> 00:39:29,189 uh, Strange New Worlds this season. 734 00:39:29,496 --> 00:39:30,786 Kevin: Well, we'll see. 735 00:39:30,976 --> 00:39:33,466 We're about to learn What is Starfleet, Rob. 736 00:39:33,679 --> 00:39:37,009 Rob: That is, we are about to learn what is Starfleet, and we still have 737 00:39:37,009 --> 00:39:42,229 four Vulcans, uh, four Vulcans, no waiting, uh, around the corner as well. 738 00:39:42,229 --> 00:39:47,479 So, um, we can only hope that it goes up and up and up with a little detour 739 00:39:47,479 --> 00:39:49,999 into, uh, superficial silliness. 740 00:39:50,296 --> 00:39:50,806 Kevin: Yeah. 741 00:39:50,811 --> 00:39:54,556 Alright, well uh, until next time, Rob, see you around the galaxy. 742 00:39:54,769 --> 00:39:55,489 Rob: So you then.