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Unknown: I have never liked when
they when they'll have a talk

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show host, bring on a sponsor as
a guest, because it just takes

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away from all credibility, no

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credibility whatsoever, none.
And especially if it's iffy, you

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know. Yes, you know. And
sometimes it is, yes, you know.

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And you're like, I can't believe
they're making me do this, yeah.

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Hopefully the good always
outweighs the bad. Yes, you

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know. And you get, you know, to
program your brands, and you get

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to do the right thing all the
time. You don't, but if you get

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there 90% of the time, or 95% of
the time, wow, that's a win. And

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I've listened, you know, to
stuff that you've done or

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whatever, and and go, oh yeah,
he's cringing. There's somebody

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in the studio they do not want
to be talking.

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Welcome to a podcast about music
and entertainment before it all

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goes down the disposal. This is
circling the drain.

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So for some reason, you guys
wanted me to kick this episode

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off, so here we go. This is the
circling the drain podcast. I am

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Jim McCarthy, across from me as
the man Johnny B Johnny Bozeman,

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say hello, my friend. Hello, my
friend. How are you? And to my

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left is always Mr.

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JR, yes. James Patrick, happy to
have you kick us off here. It

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does feel a little different,
though it does, but I like it,

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yeah, yeah. We may have little
ways have to do this more often.

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Perhaps we're just never again.
You know,

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why should

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introduce our guest? Yes. I
mean, you are such, you know, so

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familiar with our honored guests
that we thought that it would be

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appropriate for you

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to lead things off. The
gentleman that we have today is

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somebody I spent a considerable
amount of time with. What we

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spent about two, three years
together, absolutely and at the

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the the big powerhouse of 96
three, Jack FM here in

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Nashville, Mr. Ron Allen, hey,

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yes, sir.

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I feel very special that you did
the intro and that that's

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uncommon. Absolutely, about all

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three of us, we are uncommon.

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Well, I think I fall into the
little different category

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myself. I think

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we're good. And here's the thing
is that you know a lot of

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people. You know, when you
listen to a podcast like this,

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what is it that you're in for?
This episode, we talk a lot

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about Nashville radio history,
and Jack FM is certainly an

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indelible aspect, and part of
that history since 2005 it's

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20 years now. Yeah, that is
impressive. 20 years. Yes, it's

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one of the first adult hit
stations, really, in the nation,

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one of the most successful adult
hits radio stations and has the

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longevity. You know, it's just,
what do you know, we're still on

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the air. Matter of fact, I just,
I just did the creating for a

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billboard that says, still on
that go up tomorrow. So I think

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some people are shocked by that.
I know we are.

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Well, your billboards have been
the best of any radio station.

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Yeah.

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No, it's fun. We've had a good
time with those. And, you know,

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it's not rocket science. We're
not trying to put up a big

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message. People can't read that
in three seconds anyway. We're

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just trying to have some fun and
be a little stupid.

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Well, and you're and you're
promoting your radio station.

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Imagine that absolutely,

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you know. And I don't want to
knock the competition, but I see

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some of their billboards, and,
you know, the logos this big,

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yes, and then there's a bunch of
verbiage, and you just go, I

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don't even know what I just
yeah, what the heck was that?

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It's terrible.

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And then there's some out there
that don't even do that.

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They don't believe in marketing.
Yeah,

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there's my advertising in our
station, but by golly, we're not

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advertising ours.

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We don't believe in branding.

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Why would you do that? Does that
require spending money? Oh, hell

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no. We don't do that here. No,
we don't have money.

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Shareholders would not approve.

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Yes, if we can't trade it out,
then

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maybe some concert tickets.
Concert ticket. See free CDs

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anymore.

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You don't here's the download
code. Yeah, check out. When you

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go to check out, put this code
in, a walk, a walk, a 98 FM.

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But heck, the talent does. We
don't even get the tickets

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anymore. It's all the sales
people get the tickets now, so

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you don't even get that perk
anymore. Well, we

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have a suite, you know, our
company has a suite at

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Bridgestone, and they use it for
clients, you know. And then the

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salesperson goes and hosts,
yeah. And I was like, Wouldn't

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it be cool if the talent went
and hosted? That? Wouldn't that?

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Wouldn't the client want to
spend time with the On Air

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talent? You would think, maybe
the person going, can you give

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me money? Can you give me money?
They're trying to enjoy a

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concert. Jock. It just be like,
Hey, do you want a beer? Well,

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it's

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funny, when I worked at W, L, A,
C, never got invited to the

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suite, and one night I got we
got in. Invited my wife at the

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time, and I got invited by the
Tennessean. Their suite was

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right across from WAC, and I
love because there was a

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salesperson at the door as we're
walking up. And he goes, Oh,

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what are you doing here? I'm
here to see the game. And he

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shuts the door on

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Well, you see where you are on
the whole

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were far nicer. So I'm over
there and I'm waving at the

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folks this fun night.

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You know, it's it's true. And I
don't even know why I bring this

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up, but I had a birthday last
week, and that's not the point

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to this. Thank you so much. But
the company I work for, you

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know, I a couple of people walk
by my door and say, Hey, it's

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your birthday. Happy birthday.
There was no card, there was no

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balloon, there was no cupcakes
in the break room. There was

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none of that. The company that I
do a little side work for says,

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Oh, by the way, we forgot to
give this to you, and it's the

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entire staff of their office had
signed this card for me, and

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there was a very nice gift
certificate to take my wife out

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to dinner. And I was like, I
barely work for these people,

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but they're not in radio, so I
think they like me more, and

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they got me a brand new car,
right? I mean, we could talk

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step up radio, yeah, but it was
just funny. The way radio works

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and feels in the vibe today is
so much different than it is

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than when we all started. Yes,
so different. Yeah, not a good

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thing. How

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quantify that statement?

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You've worked like in Wichita
and Tulsa? Did you not?

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I did. I was in Tulsa, Wichita
in Kansas City, before I came

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here. And you know, I loved all
of those. I loved Wichita Tulsa.

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I don't know that I love Kansas
City. No one Kansas City is

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listening, right? I'm sorry, no,
but, you know, I loved, I loved

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the vibe of both of those
cities. Yeah, you know, I think

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Wichita is underrated. You know,
I really do. I really do. I

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think that it has an inferiority
complex. Radio is good there,

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yeah, it is. Radio in Tulsa is
very good, and so is a fun day.

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It was fun. It was a great you
know, I started in Tulsa in the

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late 80s, so, fairly small
company. And, you know, it was a

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different world. People truly
believed in the product. That

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was the foremost thing on
everybody's mind, that if we put

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the very, very best product on
the air that we can, we're going

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to invest in it. We're going to
invest in our people. And by

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doing that, we're going to reap
the rewards of we're going to

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have high sales and high
ratings. And what a novel

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concept. Instead of, you know,
today, it's a little bit more

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of, you know, we're going to
save ourselves to prosperity.

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And I think we all would agree
that doesn't work. No, it does

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not, no. So it's changed a lot,
and I wouldn't change anything

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in my career. I wouldn't go back
and do it differently. I'm not

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disappointed where I am today.
I'm super excited with the radio

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stations and the people that I
work with. Do I miss those old

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days and old times and old ways
of doing things? Oh, absolutely.

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And unfortunately, I think that
we have much more change on the

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horizon. I think as we get into,
you know, the conversations

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about AI in the digital space
and and across, you know, market

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programming, and there's going
to be more cost cutting, more

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people are going to lose their
jobs. It's not going to be why

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we all got into it. I'm hoping
that it's still compelling

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enough that as people younger
have other options, that it

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still is a viable format. Moving
forward, we'll see, you know, I

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mean, I've just got on my
soapbox here, so sorry, guys.

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No, you know, but there's a lot
going on out there, and I still

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really believe in radio and what
we all do, and where we all came

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from, and I just don't think
it's as I have a blast, but I

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don't think it's as much fun for
the average person anymore. I

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don't know if I was 1825, years
old, 30 years old, this is not

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the career I would be. Well, I
mean, where are the training

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grounds? There are none.

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Exactly. Yeah. Oh, wait a
minute, a high school actually

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has a program. Well,
broadcasting, there are

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some Yeah.

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Well, I even got invited to
speak to some college kids that

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were that are coming through
broadcast, and I turned it down

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because it was right after I was
let go, yeah, and I thought I

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have nothing positive to tell
these kids, you know, well, this

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is your future.

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Something else. There's always
going to be the need for

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content. I think there are.
There are just different

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platforms, yes, that are at our
disposal, aside from just, you

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know, putting a tower up,

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and I think challenge will
always rise to the top, and you

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know, there will be success in
what we've all done. It may be

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in a completely different form.
You may be doing something on

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seven radio stations instead of
one radio stations. And I hate

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that personally, because I don't
think that. Were paying enough

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attention to the one that you
should be paying attention to,

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amen, but that's probably the
the business model that we're

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dealing with now, unfortunately.
But you know, we had a 17 year

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old intern come in from high
school who loves radio and would

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love to do something in the
industry. And I was very

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encouraging. I You don't get to
see those people very often. And

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so I think of them as unicorns,
and I want to, I want to keep

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them excited about what I've
done my entire life. We just had

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a guy come in last week that
just graduated. He was 22 he

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would love to get into the
industry. And that was the

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challenge when you have that
conversation, when he says to

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you, Well, how do I do it? And
you go, Well, when I started,

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you came in and you did
weekends, and you did

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overnights, and then you did
seven to midnight, and you got

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better, and you crafted your
craft, and you got to do mid

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days, and then you got to do
afternoons. And there was this

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process, and you got to go to a
bigger market, and you got to

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make more money, and you had
goals and and challenges and

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things that you could see in the
future that were going to make

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this all worth it. The struggle
was, there was a goal at the end

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that made you think, I can
actually make my car payment at

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some day. There's not that now.
There's you can't come.

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Can you fog a mirror? That's the
requirement.

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00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:22,400
Can you fog a mirror? Or, you
know, and I would, I would take

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this a step farther. It's just
not talent, it's sales staffs

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the same way. Yeah, it's either,
can you fog a mirror, or,

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unfortunately, they all look
like us, and we're all aging

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out. You know, what's the
industry look like in 10 years,

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we have only five sales people
in our building. Oh, my God,

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really, only five at this point.
Four of them look like us. So

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Mark is still there. Mark still
there. Is he still there? He's

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still there. And he's one of the
leading billers in the company.

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And there is that, that ability,
that he has groomed and grown

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and has been successful. Well,
he's at retirement age. So what

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happens when he retires? Who do
you replace him with? So I think

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from the On Air and content side
of it, we this is our world. We

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worry about that. I step back
and worry about even the sales

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aspect of it. I mean, I get
there are other sales jobs. You

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can sell something else and
transition to radio, but you,

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but is that where your, you
know, life leads you?

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You were on my podcast, you
know, earlier this last, last

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year, and you know, that's the
one thing is, I don't want to

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come off like I'm hammering
radio. No, not at all. I love

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radio, yeah, and that's, this is
a romantic, nostalgic view and

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perspective of what we all
experience got we were lucky

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enough to

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experience, well, I think we all
love radio, yeah, that's why we

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got into right?

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And a lot of it was what the
same message I put out to

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anybody who's still left in the
business, if I think not, if,

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when what you're saying comes to
pass, the people that are still

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there need to know they are
still valuable. Because you have

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it over all the different
content creators that are out

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there on Instagram, Tiktok, that
are struggling to create

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content, you know, a couple
times a week. Do you guys?

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You're doing this every day,
every day you're doing this

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every day. You're already in the
rhythm. Yeah, remember that, you

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know. And so a couple of people
are actually figuring the, you

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know, the pivot out, you know,
but there, I think they're a lot

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of people in the radio business
right now are a lot more

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valuable to digital marketing
companies, like all anybody,

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anybody who's like in a
management position at a digital

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marketing company, whether
you're doing content creation

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for influencers or whatever.
Hire these people. This is what

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they do. They live in that
creative space. You know, all

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the time, there's hope.

242
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There is hope. But I think that
though there are less people

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doing what we all do every day,
there are less people, but there

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are still people doing it, and
there are less people to fill

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those jobs. Either they've moved
on to something else, they've

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aged out, they got smart. I
don't know. There is a need for

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young, new talent in the
industry, and as an industry, we

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have not done the best at
bringing those people on board.

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And I you know, if you're a
broadcaster and you're

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listening, wrap your arms around
some of these young guys and

251
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,480
girls and bring them in if
they're doing a podcast, show

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them the positive sides of radio
and where it's still growing and

253
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where you can still be
successful.

254
00:14:32,659 --> 00:14:39,019
But you know Ron the ability to
get into the industry and make a

255
00:14:39,019 --> 00:14:42,519
living. I mean, when you can
make more at Chick fil A, I

256
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mean, that that, let's face it,
that that's, that's an issue.

257
00:14:47,140 --> 00:14:51,040
It's horrid. I mean, you know,
you can't live on 25, or $30,000

258
00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:55,600
a year, $40,000 a year. And you
know, there are people in our

259
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,960
building that make $40,000 a
year, that have full time jobs,

260
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um. You know, that's rough. You
know your your rent is, you

261
00:15:02,676 --> 00:15:07,236
know, 1516, $1,700 in Nashville.
How do you how do you make ends

262
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meet? I worry about that. I
think about that with my staff a

263
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lot. I go to war with, you know,
the people that write the checks

264
00:15:15,336 --> 00:15:20,600
a lot. It doesn't do any good.
But the reality that I tried to

265
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,160
remind myself of and I'm so far
removed from it, I forget

266
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sometimes. But when I started in
this business, my first

267
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contract, I made $750 a month to
do seven to midnight, yeah. And

268
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different time, my rent was $200
you know, I get it. But even

269
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when I was in my 30s, and when I
was programming, you know,

270
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:49,720
legitimate radio stations, you
know, a 35,000 $40,000 a year

271
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job was kind of expected, you
know. And you had to figure out,

272
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how do I do it? And it was worse
for the guy doing midday,

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because he was making 25 you
know, and you just go, we all

274
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struggled through those early
years, I think, hoping for a

275
00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:09,780
point where it was going to get
better. And I think it did. It

276
00:16:09,780 --> 00:16:13,320
did. It does for a lot of
people, but it's not an industry

277
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,320
to get into if you want to get
rich, because none of us have

278
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:16,500
done

279
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:19,860
it right, right? You know, from
a sales perspective, you

280
00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:23,900
mentioned that, you know, sales
tax have shrunk as well. I mean,

281
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:27,020
what do you find is most
attractive to the advertisers

282
00:16:27,020 --> 00:16:31,340
these days? Is it the the
digital landscape, the website,

283
00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:34,820
the all you know, being on the
app, that kind of thing? I mean,

284
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what? What is the, what is the
sales point that that your sales

285
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,480
folks seem to really have the
most success with, you know,

286
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,320
I will give a tip of the hat to
I heart, which I don't do very

287
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,660
often. Their digital division is
really good. You know, they,

288
00:16:52,660 --> 00:16:54,940
they've spent a lot of money
there. They've spent a lot of

289
00:16:54,940 --> 00:16:58,000
time and energy and effort, and
from a sales standpoint,

290
00:16:58,060 --> 00:17:02,760
they're, I think, way ahead of
where we are as a company. We

291
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,240
have that division. It's
obviously much smaller. I think

292
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,200
we do marry radio and digital
together well, and I think we do

293
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,560
create great results for our
clients. But I don't think

294
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that's the sizzle for our sales
people right now, because,

295
00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:21,200
again, they're older, you know,
they they want to go and sell

296
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,120
radio I think that their revenue
is more closely associated with

297
00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:29,720
radio spots. You know, the spot
buy is going to be bigger than

298
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:34,760
the digital buy. I still
believe, and I think with our

299
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:40,120
staff, this is true. I hope it
is, that the connection that we

300
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:45,100
have, you know, let's talk about
Jack in particular. Moose has

301
00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:49,000
been with that radio station for
20 years. What a great guy. What

302
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,740
a great guy, right? Yeah, and
he, he is who he is, on the air,

303
00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:57,340
off the air on the streets, in
with the sales force, he will go

304
00:17:57,340 --> 00:18:00,780
out on the streets and pump gas
in his shorts and T shirt, and

305
00:18:00,780 --> 00:18:03,840
if a listener comes up, he will
make that personal connection,

306
00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:06,300
not because it's part of his
job, it's because of who he is

307
00:18:06,300 --> 00:18:12,120
exactly. And he lives that every
day. You can't buy that, that

308
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:16,740
that reality of who he is, those
personal touches, that

309
00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:19,680
connection that he can make. And
we have other people in our

310
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,720
building that that can make
those connections too. You can't

311
00:18:23,780 --> 00:18:26,600
always get that when you're
doing seven radio brands, or

312
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,920
whatever you're doing, and AI is
not going to do it. That's just

313
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,480
what a terrible thought. But I
hope that our sales staff still

314
00:18:35,660 --> 00:18:40,960
sees the value in that personal
connection, and I hope that our

315
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,080
listeners still see the value,
and that I know they do, and I

316
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,300
believe the advertisers do. I
mean, we still do a ton of

317
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:51,880
endorsements. I think it still
works for the client. I think

318
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,460
we're in this cool industry
that's so protected. You know,

319
00:18:55,060 --> 00:18:58,900
anybody can start a live stream.
Only so many licenses are

320
00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:02,820
available in Nashville. FCC has
protected us. We have a lane

321
00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:06,360
that is all to ourselves. No one
can come in and encroach on what

322
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:10,380
we're doing. We have this
competitive advantage, but we've

323
00:19:10,380 --> 00:19:14,580
tried to give it away so many
times by just not covering the

324
00:19:14,580 --> 00:19:18,420
bases and doing it well. And I
try every day. I know there's a

325
00:19:18,420 --> 00:19:21,620
lot of people out there every
day that love radio, breathe,

326
00:19:21,620 --> 00:19:26,120
radio, live radio. Still Believe
in what we do every day. I think

327
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:29,780
that there's a long lifespan
left for what we do. It's

328
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:33,380
accessible, it's free, it's
easy. Everybody knows what it

329
00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:36,320
is. There's still great music
discovery. There's still great

330
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:42,040
content for talk. These are big
voices, big you know, megaphones

331
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,100
that reach so many people,
hundreds of 1000s of people

332
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:52,480
every week. How does that fail?
Yeah, we've tried. We try, but

333
00:19:52,540 --> 00:19:56,680
there's a lot of life, I think
left. Do we still struggle

334
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,260
through some hard times? It's,
you know, it's this year has

335
00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:00,480
been rough. Well, you know,

336
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:05,160
especially given as we record
this, it was just a couple of

337
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,520
weeks ago, we had the major
weather event here with the ice

338
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:13,260
storm, and that really wreaked
havoc on the middle Tennessee

339
00:20:13,260 --> 00:20:18,480
area. And that is where radio,
the immediacy of it can really,

340
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,620
really shine, unlike any other
medium, absolutely.

341
00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:24,620
And I think that a lot of radio
stations in town did an

342
00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:28,700
excellent job with that. We were
challenged by it a little bit.

343
00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:32,120
We don't have de ICERs on our
sticks, on our towers, our

344
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:36,800
antennas, so y'all, one of the
radio stations I program was

345
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,780
actually off the air for 36
hours. You know, that's a pretty

346
00:20:40,780 --> 00:20:42,580
devastating blow in a PPM
market.

347
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:45,100
Well, it broke my wife's heart.
Not that

348
00:20:47,020 --> 00:20:50,320
her heart was broken, but I'm
glad she listens. You know,

349
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,460
that's a that's hard. Jack was
on low power for quite a while,

350
00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:58,660
and mix was almost unlistenable
for about 30 hours. And at the

351
00:20:58,660 --> 00:21:01,320
same time, we were getting
people calling us, State Farm

352
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,720
and other advertisers were
calling us saying, Hey, we would

353
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,860
like to start a pretty
significant radio buy at a

354
00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:10,740
pretty significant rate. They
wanted on right away. You know,

355
00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:14,100
they wanted to reach their
customers. And I actually hit

356
00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:18,600
the brakes and said, well, whoa,
we I don't love our signal. Let

357
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,780
me get on the phone with the
engineering staff and find out

358
00:21:20,780 --> 00:21:23,420
when we're going to be back to
full power before we take this

359
00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:26,960
revenue. And we were able to do
that, and I felt good about

360
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,400
moving forward, but, you know,
it was almost, we almost lost

361
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,900
money because of it. So, you
know, I think you're right, the

362
00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:40,160
the immediacy, when you're in
your car and it's snowing and

363
00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:43,180
you're trying to get home, you
could flip on the radio station,

364
00:21:43,180 --> 00:21:46,840
and hopefully there's somebody
live in the studio who can say,

365
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,540
Yeah, this is what's going on,
and this is, you know, this is

366
00:21:49,540 --> 00:21:52,240
what you can expect, Jack and
y'all are little different

367
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,200
animals. You know, we don't have
that live Air Staff, per se, but

368
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,860
I think we have a valuable
service we do, too, and that's

369
00:21:59,860 --> 00:22:03,420
just entertain everyone sure,
you know, and and make a local

370
00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:07,980
connection. I have said for
Jack, and I would say this about

371
00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:13,320
y'all as well, we're as live and
local as anybody else. And

372
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,280
people will look at me and go,
Well, no, you're not, did you

373
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,240
not live at all? You're, you
know. And I go, you know, every

374
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,260
song that we play, that decision
is made in my office. Every

375
00:22:24,260 --> 00:22:26,960
piece of imaging that's written
and gets on those radio stations

376
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,220
is written in my office. Every
promotion that we decide to do

377
00:22:31,220 --> 00:22:35,660
is decided in my office.
Everything that moose does out

378
00:22:35,660 --> 00:22:39,140
in the streets we talk about in
my office. We are connected to

379
00:22:39,140 --> 00:22:43,000
the community. We are at events.
We are at concerts. We are at

380
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,240
everything that's going on in
town. We are part of that. We're

381
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,720
talking about part of that where
some of these other companies,

382
00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:52,240
you know, the playlist is
corporate, coming from another

383
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,660
city. It's voice tracked, you
know, somebody from another city

384
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,960
that's maybe never even been to
Nashville. They're they're

385
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,400
reading liners that might not
have been written here. You

386
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,340
know, they're on googling
Nashville to find out what they

387
00:23:05,340 --> 00:23:07,740
should talk about. You know,
we're not doing any of that.

388
00:23:07,860 --> 00:23:10,260
We're actually in this city. We
love the city. We're part of

389
00:23:10,260 --> 00:23:13,380
this city, and the decisions
about what you hear are made in

390
00:23:13,380 --> 00:23:16,920
this city. So I think of us as a
local radio station. The live

391
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,600
part is a little little fishy,
but we are in the studio

392
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,800
recording stuff that plays back
pretty quickly. We are talking

393
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,380
about the things that are going
on in the city almost as they

394
00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:31,640
happen. So I kind of stand by
that statement, even though I

395
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:32,720
get questioned about it.

396
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,760
Yeah, is are they to expedite
the process? Obviously, you

397
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:43,000
mentioned I heart earlier. They
have proof of concept with the

398
00:23:43,420 --> 00:23:47,200
like, are they actually on the
air, driving and migrating the

399
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,260
audience to the podcasting
properties, if you will? I think

400
00:23:50,260 --> 00:23:53,080
that's their goal. Absolutely.
Yeah. It's a good goal, yeah,

401
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,840
and it's no. I think their
digital space is more important

402
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,020
to them than their terrestrial
antennas, which I think it

403
00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:03,780
should be. I think it should be
in time. I'm not sure we're at

404
00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:07,440
that moment. They've been
working on it for 20 years, 20

405
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,280
plus years, you know, they in
various, yeah, and I think

406
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,920
they've gotten a, you know,
ahead of the pitch count a

407
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,820
little bit sometimes, you know,
they were really early adapters

408
00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:21,172
with HD. I think they saw that
there were all these sub

409
00:24:21,172 --> 00:24:24,952
channels that they could, you
know, have content on. And they

410
00:24:24,952 --> 00:24:28,192
went out and they spent millions
and millions and millions of

411
00:24:28,192 --> 00:24:31,552
dollars on these first
generation HD transmitters, who,

412
00:24:31,612 --> 00:24:33,712
by the time they got them all
installed, were pretty much

413
00:24:33,712 --> 00:24:37,072
obsolete, you know. And then
they found out what we have in

414
00:24:37,072 --> 00:24:39,532
this building, in this cluster,
now, we have seven of these sub

415
00:24:39,532 --> 00:24:43,660
channels, but we don't have any
content, you know. I literally

416
00:24:43,660 --> 00:24:48,400
know interns that they said,
Hey, do you know anything about

417
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,140
smooth jazz? Because you want to
run a radio station, you know?

418
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,080
Because they just didn't. There
wasn't anything there. And so I

419
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,060
think that the cart got before
the horse a little bit. But. I

420
00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:03,000
guess that's a good thing. I'd
rather be having to pull back

421
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:08,340
and learn from my mistakes than
sitting on the sidelines. I

422
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:12,120
think that they drive what we do
as an industry. By the way, I

423
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:14,400
don't always agree with the way
they're driving it.

424
00:25:14,580 --> 00:25:17,220
That's my point. Is that I think
ultimately, you know, they're

425
00:25:17,220 --> 00:25:21,080
taking on all and spending this
money. Are they servicing the

426
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,200
debt? You know, we know
bankruptcy said they didn't,

427
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,220
right? This is why they're known
as, I heart, right? Okay,

428
00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:30,920
formerly known as Clear Channel,
right? Which means to tell me

429
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,280
that eventually they're gonna
screw this up too. So I have

430
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,580
faith they're good. So I mean,
why not take that business model

431
00:25:37,580 --> 00:25:40,540
with the advantage you guys
have, and expedite that, that

432
00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:43,180
same kind of model that seems to
be working, you still have the

433
00:25:43,180 --> 00:25:45,460
towers and everything like you
still have the live and local

434
00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:48,640
aspect. But, man, build a
podcast network. You got plenty

435
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,280
of podcasts here in town. This
one being one of them, right?

436
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,920
Absolutely, you can add to a
network and sell, you

437
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,100
know, yeah, I think that, you
know, my company again, smaller.

438
00:25:57,100 --> 00:26:00,780
We have 92 radio stations. I
think that would be our goal. I

439
00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:04,080
think that, you know, pie in the
sky, we'd love to get there.

440
00:26:04,140 --> 00:26:07,080
We're just not very good at it,
you know. I think we need help.

441
00:26:07,740 --> 00:26:10,740
We have hired some people in the
last six months that are

442
00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:13,320
pointing us in that direction. I
think there's hope and there's

443
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,280
there's more direction and more
of a goal. But it's not easy,

444
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,440
you know. And I think for two
reasons. One, you've got these

445
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,440
old school broadcasters, and I
may be among them that are

446
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:30,140
resistant, that aren't 100,000%
on board, because I'm worried

447
00:26:30,140 --> 00:26:34,400
about protecting my, you know,
my traditional signal. And then

448
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,780
you've just got the expense and
the the knowledge to help you

449
00:26:38,780 --> 00:26:44,920
move forward, you know, 2000 I
remember late 90s, you know, I

450
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,620
had corporate coming in telling
me that everything was going to

451
00:26:47,620 --> 00:26:50,740
focus on my website. You know,
we had to sell the website. We

452
00:26:50,740 --> 00:26:54,280
had to get all this stuff going
in. I was like, well, awesome,

453
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:59,320
great. What about all these
unsold spots? Why don't we sell

454
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:04,080
some radio while we're at. And
you know that, yeah, our website

455
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,520
is a thing. It's not the thing,
right? You know? So we have all

456
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,640
seen things come and go to the
industry that was going to be

457
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,840
the next big thing. And I'm not
detracting from where we are. I

458
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,660
think we are moving in that
direction, but I think that's

459
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:23,240
why there's some hesitancy and
some nervousness about jumping

460
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,220
in with both feet. I heart
jumped in with both feet.

461
00:27:25,220 --> 00:27:27,920
They've done really well. They
make money from their podcast.

462
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,340
They make money from all their
digital investments. Again, I

463
00:27:31,340 --> 00:27:34,160
think they've done really,
really well at that side of the

464
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,940
business. Has it been at the
expense of what's coming out of

465
00:27:37,940 --> 00:27:40,780
the speakers? That would be my
question. They've taken all this

466
00:27:40,780 --> 00:27:44,500
money and dedicated it to their
digital platforms and cut Air

467
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:48,100
Staff, you know, or cut
promotions budgets and cut

468
00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:52,840
marketing. And, you know, I, I
don't know that that was the

469
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,200
right thing to do. I think they
gave up on what got them to the

470
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:01,380
dance too fast. And I, no one in
their organization said we gave

471
00:28:01,380 --> 00:28:04,260
up on radio. I'm sure that was
never a conversation, but they

472
00:28:04,260 --> 00:28:06,300
did move a lot of resources
quickly.

473
00:28:06,420 --> 00:28:08,760
Well, how many plates are they
spinning? Though, over there,

474
00:28:09,180 --> 00:28:10,980
they got events, concerts.

475
00:28:10,980 --> 00:28:13,860
They're spending a lot of a lot
of plates. Yeah, they are, and

476
00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:17,340
they're making money from a lot
of those spinning plates, maybe

477
00:28:17,340 --> 00:28:19,800
more more at this point, than
they are from some of the

478
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,140
terrestrial radio properties,
you know, and good for them, you

479
00:28:24,140 --> 00:28:29,360
know, if that, if it was a two
way street, if radio paid for

480
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,780
these advancements, and then
these advancements started

481
00:28:32,780 --> 00:28:36,920
making money, and they paid for
radio to have more promotions,

482
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,040
more talent, more opportunity,
exactly, I would be super

483
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,380
excited. I think it's a one way
street. I think radio helps pay

484
00:28:44,380 --> 00:28:49,000
for our digital initiatives, and
then if there is return from

485
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,260
those initiatives, it goes
either to the bottom line or to

486
00:28:53,260 --> 00:28:57,160
corporate. You know, it doesn't
funnel back to Wow. We had an

487
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,320
amazing digital year. You can
have a couple more part timers,

488
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,100
or you get a new midday show,
or, wow, you get a new vehicle,

489
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,000
because your vehicle is 17 years
old. You know that? That doesn't

490
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,040
seem to be the business model.
You know which? It's a business.

491
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,220
I understand it. You know, none
of us, none of us got in to do

492
00:29:17,220 --> 00:29:19,920
this for free, and neither did
the corporations we work for.

493
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,680
They expect return on their
investment

494
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,420
now in terms of the social media
component. I mean, are you being

495
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,020
told to replace, for lack of a
better term, a lot of the

496
00:29:30,020 --> 00:29:35,120
marketing that was part of a
budget at one time, and now it's

497
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,820
well, you know, Facebook's free.

498
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:44,740
Facebook's free, yeah, you know,
on occasion, I will get some

499
00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:48,280
dollars dedicated, you know, to
geo fencing, a concert or

500
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,580
something, if it just makes
sense for the brand. For y'all,

501
00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:54,460
it's pretty simple, if, if you
know, Clint Black is at the

502
00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:59,320
Ryman, well, there's, there's a
fish in a barrel opportunity, I

503
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,880
don't get. Those dollars. Very
much. Again, whatever goes to

504
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:09,060
digital stays in digital, and it
doesn't really come back. We we

505
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,140
understand, you know, in our
building and my staffs how

506
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:16,620
important social media is to
everyone, how important their

507
00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:20,160
phone is to everyone, how
important it is to the survival

508
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,380
of what we do. So we're trying
to take advantage of every

509
00:30:24,380 --> 00:30:27,140
opportunity without spamming and
without cluttering up people's

510
00:30:27,140 --> 00:30:30,560
lives, to be part of the
interaction of their day. And

511
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,800
that's where the moose comes in,
or the tailor on y'all, me a

512
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,760
little bit on y'all, we just
hired Carissa Ella on y'all to

513
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,980
have a little footprint in their
life. And again, it's that

514
00:30:41,980 --> 00:30:45,580
personality driven stuff that if
we can get into your social

515
00:30:45,580 --> 00:30:50,680
media a little bit without being
overbearing about it absolutely

516
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,560
behooves us. It's something that
we need to be doing better at. I

517
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,720
think we we do a fine job. Finds
a terrible word we should do

518
00:30:58,720 --> 00:30:59,020
better.

519
00:30:59,019 --> 00:31:01,959
Do you have someone dedicated to
keep track of all that? Because

520
00:31:01,959 --> 00:31:04,379
that's that's that's a heck of
an undertaking. That's a full

521
00:31:04,379 --> 00:31:05,099
time gig,

522
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:08,400
to really do it right? I would
say that it is a, it is a

523
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,960
village effort, Yeah,
unfortunately, for for Jack, for

524
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,200
an example, we have a marketing
person who is assigned to that

525
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,960
brand and to y'all so she
officially would oversee that,

526
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,640
but she has 15 other
responsibilities, sure. So moose

527
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,520
is helping her. I am helping
her. Anybody that goes out for

528
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,520
the promotions team, and we do
have about six or seven part

529
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,600
time employees that make up the
street team. So if they're out,

530
00:31:35,780 --> 00:31:39,020
they post, you know, if I'm just
driving down the road and I see

531
00:31:39,020 --> 00:31:44,440
something that makes sense, I'll
post. I like it more when moose

532
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,360
does it and, you know, or Taylor
does it. I think that no one

533
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,020
really knows me, you know, a
little bit on y'all Not, not

534
00:31:53,020 --> 00:31:57,040
really on Jack this much. But
when moose or when our

535
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,900
promotions team doesn't, there's
not that personal connection. If

536
00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:05,400
moose says, hey, it's moose. And
I just saw this just, you know,

537
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,400
and does it through social
media, I think there's, again,

538
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:13,800
that personal connection. There
is more sales driven content now

539
00:32:14,220 --> 00:32:18,480
than there was five years ago.
Because though we try not to

540
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:24,980
sell that, when somebody comes
in and says, Hey, here's 500

541
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:25,880
bucks.

542
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,320
You take the money. Yeah, I hear
you, yeah.

543
00:32:30,380 --> 00:32:33,740
What is, what would be an
example of, like, sales driven.

544
00:32:33,740 --> 00:32:34,880
Content was

545
00:32:34,940 --> 00:32:38,420
that, look, oh, I mean, content
is sales driven, you know, XYZ,

546
00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:42,100
grand opening. And if, if we're
doing a remote moose is going to

547
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:45,220
be there, okay, that's fine. But
if moose isn't going to be

548
00:32:45,220 --> 00:32:47,620
there, and they just bought a
schedule, but all of a sudden

549
00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:50,680
we're posting about this amazing
Grand Opening they're doing,

550
00:32:51,820 --> 00:32:54,400
yeah, it crosses a little bit of
a line. And, I mean, there's a

551
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,640
little tagline the sponsored
content, whatever, but they

552
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,600
don't see that. They just see
that we're promoting it, it's

553
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,680
spam to them, or at least that's
the way I look at it. If I get

554
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:11,040
it, I go, Yeah, why did I get
this? It's got my logo on it.

555
00:33:11,340 --> 00:33:16,500
Then I'm like, yeah, it's got my
logo and I want to do that. Come

556
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:17,580
on, we're better than that.

557
00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:20,960
Well, it's kind of like talk
radio. I have never liked when

558
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,340
they when they'll have a talk
show host, bring on a sponsor as

559
00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:29,120
a guest, because it just takes
away from all credibility, no

560
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,000
credibility whatsoever, none.
And especially if it's iffy, you

561
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,820
know. Yes, you know. And
sometimes it is yes, you know.

562
00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:37,400
And you're like, I can't believe
they're making me do this. Yeah,

563
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:37,700
but

564
00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:40,900
you know, hopefully the good
always outweighs the bad. Yes,

565
00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:43,900
you know. And you get, you know,
to program your brands, and you

566
00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:47,980
get to do the right thing all
the time. You don't, but if you

567
00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:51,280
get there 90% of the time, or
95% of the time, wow, that's a

568
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,480
win, you know. And I, and I've
listened, you know, to stuff

569
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,540
that you've done or whatever,
and and go, oh yeah, he's

570
00:33:58,540 --> 00:34:03,900
cringing. There's somebody in
the studio they do not want to

571
00:34:03,900 --> 00:34:08,580
be talking. But, you know, I
don't. I think it's forgivable

572
00:34:08,580 --> 00:34:11,400
periodically. I don't know that
the audience always holds us

573
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,100
accountable. I don't know if
they're as critical about those

574
00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:19,140
things as I am. Maybe I'm just a
cynic, but, or maybe we're just

575
00:34:19,140 --> 00:34:21,440
more aware and more in tune.
Yeah, yeah.

576
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,739
That's one thing I did love
about Phil Valentine, is that he

577
00:34:25,219 --> 00:34:28,039
he never would allow like
salesperson would come in and

578
00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:31,279
say, Hey, so and so wants to be
a guest on your show. And he go,

579
00:34:31,279 --> 00:34:33,919
no, they're a client. Yeah. He
said, I

580
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,400
gotta have a wall for a guy
who's programmed music stations

581
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,220
his whole life. I listened to
Phil. I was definitely a p1 and

582
00:34:42,340 --> 00:34:46,360
thank you absolutely so honest.
Just thought he was such a

583
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,760
bright guy and so So just real
and so honest and just so

584
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,300
insightful. I would look at
those numbers and afternoons and

585
00:34:55,300 --> 00:35:01,020
just go, Oh, he's killing me.
But I. Yeah, he should have

586
00:35:01,020 --> 00:35:03,240
been, you know, those were,
yeah, those were great shows.

587
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:06,899
Well, thank you for that. Yeah,
and he was, he was,

588
00:35:07,139 --> 00:35:10,979
and you were a huge part of it,
you know, it's just, you know, I

589
00:35:10,979 --> 00:35:13,979
just, I, you know, I miss
listening. I miss

590
00:35:13,980 --> 00:35:15,120
it myself. It

591
00:35:17,099 --> 00:35:20,839
was, it was, it's good radio,
yeah, and compelling content.

592
00:35:20,839 --> 00:35:25,099
And, you know, not decisive in
it, you know, yeah, and just,

593
00:35:25,099 --> 00:35:26,479
just thought out, well,

594
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,200
he was reasonable. He wasn't
like a lot of some talk show

595
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,860
hosts are. It's just an echo
chamber. It's also, it's like

596
00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:38,660
the guy that they voted for
their championing can do no

597
00:35:38,660 --> 00:35:42,400
wrong if somebody that he voted
for did wrong. Well, I mean,

598
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,540
look at Glenn cassida, right? He
really, right. Laid into him.

599
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:46,900
Yeah?

600
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:50,800
I just Yeah. I always felt like
he was telling you the truth.

601
00:35:50,860 --> 00:35:54,340
He was, he was an honest guy.
That's why I knew I would go

602
00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:56,860
far. I said, I'm not leaving
this guy, because he's the most

603
00:35:56,860 --> 00:36:00,160
honest man I've ever met in
radio. He'll tell you the truth.

604
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,580
Sometimes it hurts.

605
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,719
I don't know if that's ever been
somebody's business model.

606
00:36:07,980 --> 00:36:13,260
Tell the truth, you might win.
Wow. Novel concept. Didn't think

607
00:36:13,260 --> 00:36:15,300
of that. Why didn't somebody
tell me?

608
00:36:17,460 --> 00:36:21,920
Well, Ron is a guy that programs
music radio and has all time,

609
00:36:21,980 --> 00:36:27,380
all these years. What do you see
yourself separating music radio

610
00:36:27,380 --> 00:36:32,180
from the Spotify is the YouTube
Music, the Apple Music. I mean,

611
00:36:32,180 --> 00:36:34,340
what? What is your advantage?

612
00:36:34,639 --> 00:36:38,239
You know, I think that when I
look at the pure plays and what

613
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,999
they're doing and I listen, I
I'm part of that group, I guess

614
00:36:43,299 --> 00:36:46,479
I think we still have, and I
don't want to harp on it, a

615
00:36:46,479 --> 00:36:51,699
couple avenues that we win. One
is moose. One is that, you know,

616
00:36:51,759 --> 00:36:55,239
we're giving you an opportunity
to be local personality,

617
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,839
personality content that they
don't have. I think even our

618
00:36:58,839 --> 00:37:02,519
writing that's local and funny
and entertaining our billboards,

619
00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:04,979
you know, when people see that,
they realize there's a

620
00:37:04,979 --> 00:37:08,999
connection there. You know, when
I listen to XM, you know,

621
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:14,519
satellite radio, I'm really into
it for about a week, and then

622
00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:17,519
after about a week, I It's
weird. I feel like there's

623
00:37:17,519 --> 00:37:21,559
something missing, you know, and
I'll be just all in for a week,

624
00:37:21,559 --> 00:37:25,339
and then I won't listen for six
months, because I just feel like

625
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,539
there is something going on that
I'm not aware of in my

626
00:37:29,539 --> 00:37:34,519
community. And then I'm back to
terrestrial radio, I think, with

627
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:37,999
the writing, the connection, the
personalities, and there is

628
00:37:37,999 --> 00:37:41,139
still great music discovery.
It's you don't have to. People

629
00:37:41,139 --> 00:37:47,859
are lazy. I'm lazy. I don't have
to go to Spotify and search my

630
00:37:47,859 --> 00:37:50,739
playlist, and I put in what I
like, and I put this thing, and

631
00:37:50,739 --> 00:37:53,559
it tells me that I might like
this guy or whatever. I don't

632
00:37:53,559 --> 00:37:57,699
have to do any of that. I can
drive in my car. And some dude

633
00:37:57,699 --> 00:38:01,739
like me picked out some songs
they thought I might like and

634
00:38:01,739 --> 00:38:05,159
they're playing them for me, and
maybe I do like them. And then I

635
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:08,399
have music discovery, and I
didn't even know I was and now I

636
00:38:08,399 --> 00:38:12,599
have a new artist that I like. I
think it can be that simple, you

637
00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:16,499
know, I think you still have,
you know, it's crazy as it is,

638
00:38:16,859 --> 00:38:19,199
you know, somebody's doing a big
show at Bridgestone, and

639
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:23,659
everybody's excited about
winning those tickets. That's

640
00:38:23,659 --> 00:38:27,139
really not who we are as radio
stations, but that personal

641
00:38:27,139 --> 00:38:30,199
connection and that fun is who
we are. You know, we're doing

642
00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:33,379
trips to the Caribbean a couple
times a year. A lot of people

643
00:38:33,379 --> 00:38:36,019
just they're never going to have
that experience unless we give

644
00:38:36,019 --> 00:38:40,539
it to them. You know that people
work really hard and to take,

645
00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:44,559
you know, $10,000 and go on a
vacation is just not reasonable

646
00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:48,339
for them at this point. I think
we offer really cool things for

647
00:38:48,339 --> 00:38:53,139
them to interact with, us with
and I just think that we're

648
00:38:53,319 --> 00:38:56,979
family to them to some extent.
Panda, Pandora is never going to

649
00:38:56,979 --> 00:38:59,019
offer you that correct, no,
correct,

650
00:38:59,020 --> 00:39:01,440
no, and they don't have moose,
and they don't have moose. I

651
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:01,680
mean,

652
00:39:02,099 --> 00:39:04,259
I mean, they don't have the
budget that we have for his

653
00:39:04,259 --> 00:39:04,739
shorts.

654
00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:09,779
I'm just so glad that you guys
have kept him this long as you

655
00:39:09,779 --> 00:39:12,239
talk about a personality that,
oh yeah.

656
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,760
Well, and I went here pat myself
on the back when I came in and

657
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,860
Jim, you'll probably remember
some of this. His image was a

658
00:39:21,860 --> 00:39:24,500
little different, you know,
they, they kind of had him in,

659
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,320
you know, broken glasses with a
piece of tape. Yeah, they had

660
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,980
the pocket protector and, you
know, the short sleeve shirt

661
00:39:30,980 --> 00:39:34,100
untucked. And I was, I, one of
the first things I did when,

662
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:37,340
when I got there, is I sat down
with him and said, Is this you?

663
00:39:37,340 --> 00:39:41,300
And he was like, oh, no, this is
not me at all. And I was like,

664
00:39:41,300 --> 00:39:45,280
Well, who are you? You know, as
a person, who are you? Yeah. And

665
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,820
he said, Oh, this big lovable
teddy bear. And I said, Well,

666
00:39:48,820 --> 00:39:52,420
then, why are we doing that?
Exactly, why don't you just be a

667
00:39:52,420 --> 00:39:54,940
big lovable teddy bear? He goes,
Well, I wear goofy shorts. And I

668
00:39:54,940 --> 00:39:59,320
go, okay, wear goofy shorts. Be
a big lovable teddy bear. Throw

669
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,520
those fake. Glasses away. Take
that pocket protector out.

670
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,020
That's just dumb. Let's let the
audience behind the curtain and

671
00:40:07,020 --> 00:40:11,100
show them who you are as a
person, as long and this is a

672
00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:13,680
huge caveat, as long as you're
okay with that, because you're

673
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,080
gonna get stopped at the gas
pump and people are gonna go,

674
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,200
are you moose? And you're gonna
have to buy in, yeah. So if

675
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,860
you're ready to take that step
if you're ready to take your

676
00:40:21,860 --> 00:40:25,580
personal life and make it a
brand, and make it part of this

677
00:40:25,580 --> 00:40:28,520
brand where you're never going
to get a moment's, you know,

678
00:40:28,940 --> 00:40:33,500
away from it, then let's move
forward. And he said, I want to

679
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:38,600
be one of the most recognizable
air personalities in Nashville,

680
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,360
and I don't have a show. And I
was like, That is a great goal.

681
00:40:44,260 --> 00:40:48,160
Let's see if we can get that
done. And it's pretty close.

682
00:40:48,220 --> 00:40:52,900
Yeah, you know, for a guy who is
not doing mornings or mid days

683
00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:58,300
or afternoons, he's as doing all
days, you know, he's he's as

684
00:40:58,300 --> 00:41:01,560
visible and as connected as
anyone is, I think he has as

685
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,280
many loyal fans, and I see them
out on the streets. I'm shocked.

686
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,080
That's probably a big word. I'm
amazed. Maybe we'll say that

687
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,280
Jack is a huge brand. It's been
here for 20 plus years now. It's

688
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,960
had amazing ratings. We've had,
I guess, 54 number one, months,

689
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:25,340
2554 persons, tunes, sometimes
350, almost 400,000 people,

690
00:41:25,460 --> 00:41:29,120
along with our sister station,
mix just has been these dominant

691
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:34,640
powerhouses for a decade. Mix
much longer, when I go out on

692
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,880
the streets and I'm around those
brands, and I see the excitement

693
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,700
that you don't get with Pandora,
when I see listeners coming up

694
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:46,000
and talking and interacting with
the brands, I expect a positive

695
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,840
experience almost every time,
and I expect it to be

696
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,960
substantial. When mix is out
there, when Jack is out there,

697
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,640
it's noticeable. I did not
expect that with y'all, you

698
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,220
know, I've called it my little
baby brand. You know, it's two

699
00:42:02,220 --> 00:42:06,300
and a half years old now, it's
not like nobody was doing

700
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:08,160
country in this market. You
know, there were, there were

701
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:13,260
stations out there, when I'm on
the streets, when I'm behind a

702
00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:17,520
table or on a stage, and it's at
a y'all event, or we pull up in

703
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,860
the y'all truck, it's the same
response, yeah, you know, it's

704
00:42:21,860 --> 00:42:27,800
this overwhelming excitement
about the brand. And you know,

705
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,220
it comes 100,000 instead of
three or 400,000 you know, its

706
00:42:31,220 --> 00:42:35,060
ratings are not anywhere near
what Jack or mixes are, but

707
00:42:35,060 --> 00:42:38,360
there is a very loyal,
connected, big time, yes,

708
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,120
audience. My wife is a perfect
example. It's amazing, yeah, you

709
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,600
know. And I just got me hooked.
People have come to me and said,

710
00:42:47,020 --> 00:42:50,620
Why didn't this happen before?
You know, there's this huge,

711
00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:55,660
just amazing amount of music
that was so big in the 90s that

712
00:42:55,660 --> 00:42:59,920
people just didn't play, yeah?
So, you know, we don't play

713
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:04,080
anything older. The first thing
is a 1980s a 1980 Alabama song.

714
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:09,300
So we go back to 80. We stop at
2000 512, 1006 song at this

715
00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:15,840
point, that's just such a great
time for country radio. And you

716
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,480
know, nothing against our
competitors. They were all doing

717
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,340
a very fine job, but they were
all sort of doing the same

718
00:43:22,340 --> 00:43:25,700
thing. I mean, I'm friends with
some of those guys. I love I

719
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:31,160
love listening to them. I listen
a lot, but they all kind of

720
00:43:31,220 --> 00:43:34,220
sound musically the same. I
mean, there's a little

721
00:43:34,220 --> 00:43:39,020
difference between KDF and SM.
Now so more, not sure that that

722
00:43:39,020 --> 00:43:44,260
was the right move, but now so
more. But we just felt like, you

723
00:43:44,260 --> 00:43:47,080
know, there's this lane that's
super underserved, not served,

724
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,820
not even, not even underserved,
just not served, that we can put

725
00:43:51,820 --> 00:43:56,920
a jack type brand on, run fairly
inexpensively, and be very

726
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:01,140
successful. And, you know, when
we launched, I said, I think I

727
00:44:01,140 --> 00:44:04,740
said this, you know, a few
months ago with you, I went on

728
00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:07,440
record saying, we don't have to
beat anybody to be successful.

729
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,700
That's that's not the goal. The
goal is to be viable and to be

730
00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:16,920
listened to. We need to find our
voice and our audience. I'm not

731
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,560
worried about the big three. You
know, they're great radio

732
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:25,940
stations. When we launched, that
week, mix was one, Jack was two,

733
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:31,700
WSM was no, si X was three, KDF
was four. I do not remember who

734
00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:36,380
was five and WSM was six. So
three of the talks, six radio

735
00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:40,120
stations, 2554, were country.
The day we launched, the week we

736
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,480
launched, there has not been,
and this is devastatingly bad

737
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,480
for all of us. There has not
been a top 10 country radio

738
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:51,280
station, 2554, persons in the
last year. So, and I don't think

739
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,760
it's a music cycle, I think we
did just everything's

740
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,580
compressed. I think we did just
enough damage. It brought

741
00:44:57,580 --> 00:45:00,300
everybody down, just enough that
everybody else snuck in. Front

742
00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:06,060
of them. We are normally the
third country radio station. We

743
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,420
always beat at least one. There
are times we've beat two. There

744
00:45:09,420 --> 00:45:13,320
are times we've beat all three,
like three months. I'm not gonna

745
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:18,720
hang my hat on that, but we are
competitive now. We have found

746
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:22,640
that lane. We have found our
audience. And even though, like

747
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:25,820
I have, Taylor is kind of the
face of that brand. You know,

748
00:45:25,820 --> 00:45:30,440
she's a 30 year old female,
she's a songwriter. She's been

749
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,480
connected to the country music
industry for 10 years. She's

750
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,300
great with the artists that we
have coming in. We have tons of

751
00:45:38,300 --> 00:45:40,420
artists coming in because
they're here and they're

752
00:45:40,420 --> 00:45:44,620
accessible. So there's something
else that we have that the pure

753
00:45:44,620 --> 00:45:47,500
plays don't have, you know, we
have artist interaction coming

754
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:51,040
in. We you know, we do talking
with Taylor on Sundays, and, you

755
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,460
know, every week there's
somebody in the studio talking

756
00:45:54,460 --> 00:45:57,280
to us that's got a number one
song, you know, and we're

757
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,260
getting to find out what they're
doing now, and, you know what's

758
00:46:01,260 --> 00:46:03,780
going on with their life. And
sometimes I'm just curious, you

759
00:46:03,780 --> 00:46:08,580
know, if I somebody had one hit,
and, you know, 95 I haven't even

760
00:46:08,580 --> 00:46:11,340
kept up with them. It's kind of
interesting sometimes to go back

761
00:46:11,340 --> 00:46:14,040
and see where they are, exactly
what they're doing. And a lot of

762
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,260
times they're still out on the
road. Oh, big time.

763
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,100
Yeah, that's about the only way
they can still make a living.

764
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:20,720
That's the truth?

765
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,740
Yeah, yeah. So, so I, you know,
I think we still have it a lot.

766
00:46:24,740 --> 00:46:27,860
I mean, that's like a 10 minute
answer to a question. So sorry,

767
00:46:27,860 --> 00:46:32,660
but I think we still have a real
lane that our competitors. I

768
00:46:32,660 --> 00:46:36,020
mean, the digital side of it is
awesome. You can take your phone

769
00:46:36,020 --> 00:46:39,440
and go listen, and, you know,
there's gonna be some music that

770
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,280
you you're gonna discover, but
we're still doing that for

771
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:42,580
people,

772
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,960
I would think that your lane has
gotten wider since ws MFM

773
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,220
dropped the whole mash icon.

774
00:46:48,940 --> 00:46:51,940
It has, yeah, I wanted to send
somebody a fruit basket.

775
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,500
I know who that is, yeah,

776
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,300
you know. And it's funny,
Charlie, you know, is a friend,

777
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:07,860
and you know, I've known Charlie
for a while, and he would say,

778
00:47:07,860 --> 00:47:10,800
we're friends. I would say we're
friends when he left the

779
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:15,300
building. I I always wondered,
you have these two huge brands,

780
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,860
why can't you squeeze s i x? Why
can't you get on either side and

781
00:47:19,860 --> 00:47:23,900
do real damage, because si X
honestly, was probably the

782
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:26,780
dominant country radio station
through a lot of those years,

783
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,780
and I thought they sounded a
little bit better. I thought

784
00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:33,560
musically, they were a little
bit better. Oh my, by the way,

785
00:47:33,980 --> 00:47:36,680
if the I heart people ever hear
this, I apologize. I'm sorry. I

786
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,140
did not mean this. All the I
heart people don't want to talk

787
00:47:39,140 --> 00:47:42,640
to anybody. They're not friendly
with you. They don't want to, if

788
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,180
you see them in an event or a
concert, they they're like, oh,

789
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:47,080
it's, you

790
00:47:47,260 --> 00:47:48,580
know, the Cubans. People

791
00:47:48,639 --> 00:47:51,999
are very kind and very generous
with their time, and they'll

792
00:47:51,999 --> 00:47:54,279
talk to you. And I have
relationships with most of them.

793
00:47:54,279 --> 00:47:57,879
And, you know, we're all just
one big, happy family. For

794
00:47:57,879 --> 00:48:00,359
whatever reason, the people
aren't in our family.

795
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,420
But when was this going?

796
00:48:03,420 --> 00:48:10,980
It was with Charlie, way too
honest. Nobody quote me. Is this

797
00:48:10,980 --> 00:48:11,280
on?

798
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,480
So the funny thing was, is, you
know, I thought he could do

799
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,840
this, and he didn't do it, and
Charlie, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I

800
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,220
just thought he could, he could
do more damage. And then when

801
00:48:22,220 --> 00:48:28,160
Travis came in, you know, year
or so goes by and I get it. If I

802
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,620
come into a building, I'm not
going to make a bunch of changes

803
00:48:30,620 --> 00:48:33,200
in the first year. I need to get
the lay of the land. I need to

804
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:38,600
understand why people are doing
things before I, or you did it

805
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,800
the way he did it, right? Well,
because maybe you don't know. I

806
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,580
mean, I've seen people rush into
decisions and then go, Oh no,

807
00:48:45,580 --> 00:48:47,860
the whole building just fell
down because I pulled this out.

808
00:48:50,140 --> 00:48:54,880
That's the guy with the resume.
Every year he has a new job

809
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:02,280
title. Sorry, not supposed to do
that. I've known some guys that

810
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,820
do that, so I would not do that.
And I think Travis didn't, I

811
00:49:05,820 --> 00:49:11,460
think he didn't do it. But, you
know, he took musically is, is,

812
00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:13,980
you know, KDF is a different
animal right now, especially

813
00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:18,240
during his show, there's a lot
of undiscovered music there, and

814
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:22,820
he has a very specific, unique
idea for what he I've talked to

815
00:49:22,820 --> 00:49:27,740
him about it. Maybe I'm maybe I
don't know he has, I believe he

816
00:49:27,740 --> 00:49:31,880
has a very specific idea and
direction that he wants that

817
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,360
radio station to go. And he is,
you know, Damn the torpedoes,

818
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,000
full speed ahead, and he's
getting it there. And if he can

819
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,020
push it over the finish line,
and he can accomplish the things

820
00:49:41,020 --> 00:49:43,900
that I think he wants to
accomplish. He is going to be

821
00:49:44,140 --> 00:49:49,540
the smartest guy in the
Nashville radio industry. If he

822
00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:53,560
doesn't get it there, you're the
resume gets another line.

823
00:49:55,119 --> 00:49:57,039
That's the way, that's the way
the industry works,

824
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,740
way the business is. What.

825
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:07,560
Yeah, and I listen, you know,
when I hear, you know, I'll hear

826
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,200
an album cut something that the
label was probably throwing a

827
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:15,240
fit about, because he's not
playing the single. And, you

828
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:18,780
know, the first time somebody
misses a number one because, you

829
00:50:18,780 --> 00:50:21,800
know, Katie F played the album
cut 10 times instead of the

830
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,920
current single. We'll see what
kind of pushback there is. I

831
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:30,500
don't know. I love the the
aggressive behavior. I love the

832
00:50:30,500 --> 00:50:33,500
I'm going to think outside the
box. I love that I'm going to

833
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:36,620
willing to roll the dice. I love
that I'm going to do something

834
00:50:36,620 --> 00:50:39,680
different and take chances, and
I'm going to revitalize this

835
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,740
brand. I love all that

836
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:47,079
bit of a gamble. Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, WSM FM. Now,

837
00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:51,039
since, you know, the Nash icon
was dispensed with, I mean, it's

838
00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:54,639
pretty just kind of middle of
the road mainstream. Now, you

839
00:50:54,639 --> 00:50:55,299
know, it is,

840
00:50:55,420 --> 00:50:59,440
it is. And, you know, I always
thought Big D and Bubba probably

841
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,800
should have been the morning
show there instead of KDF,

842
00:51:01,980 --> 00:51:03,840
thought it fit the brand a
little bit better.

843
00:51:07,199 --> 00:51:09,839
The way the move happened, I
think was a little abrupt.

844
00:51:11,099 --> 00:51:13,559
You know, I'm not disappointed
that they're over there. I don't

845
00:51:13,559 --> 00:51:16,739
I haven't talked to them about
it specifically, but I think

846
00:51:16,739 --> 00:51:19,979
it's great home for them. You
know, the air staff that had

847
00:51:19,979 --> 00:51:24,259
been there traditionally and and
had my respect that, you know,

848
00:51:24,319 --> 00:51:29,779
don't work in the building any
longer. I felt bad for them, you

849
00:51:29,779 --> 00:51:32,779
know, moving the folks from KDF
and kind of clearing the way

850
00:51:32,779 --> 00:51:36,559
over, you know, I think was a
little bump in the road. I get

851
00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:39,379
it. Sometimes you have to break
the eggs, you know, to make the

852
00:51:39,379 --> 00:51:43,599
omelet. I think that's what he
was trying to do. You know, I

853
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:47,679
really like some of those people
that aren't there and thought

854
00:51:47,679 --> 00:51:50,679
they did a fine job. So, you
know, it's a business. I

855
00:51:50,679 --> 00:51:55,479
understand that it's, it's a sad
part of the business. What I

856
00:51:55,479 --> 00:51:58,899
didn't get about the move and
being an armchair quarterback,

857
00:51:59,139 --> 00:52:01,739
and Travis will beat me up the
next time he sees me for saying

858
00:52:01,739 --> 00:52:07,079
this. You know, you spent three
years building the big D and

859
00:52:07,079 --> 00:52:11,639
Bubba show as a part of KDF. You
know, it was on the RDS, it was

860
00:52:11,699 --> 00:52:16,739
in all the promos. It was, you
know, it was so much a part of

861
00:52:16,739 --> 00:52:20,279
that brand, purposely. I mean,
everything was about Big D and

862
00:52:20,279 --> 00:52:23,179
Bubba in the mornings. And by
the way, this is going on on

863
00:52:23,179 --> 00:52:28,339
wkdf. And then overnight they
moved them, and they didn't move

864
00:52:28,339 --> 00:52:31,399
them off. They didn't go away.
They went to the sister station

865
00:52:31,579 --> 00:52:39,199
down the hall. So in my world, I
say, Wow, this is awesome. We've

866
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:42,219
just had this amazing thing
happened. And I run 1000 promos

867
00:52:42,219 --> 00:52:45,519
going, if you love Big D and
Bubba, don't worry. They're down

868
00:52:45,519 --> 00:52:49,239
the hall. Here's where you find
them. You know, I'm gonna move

869
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,679
that audience. Yeah, yeah. That
didn't happen. You know, there

870
00:52:53,679 --> 00:52:58,899
was very little noise on the
radio station about where these

871
00:52:58,899 --> 00:53:01,299
folks, yeah, where, where did
they go? Where did they go? And

872
00:53:01,299 --> 00:53:03,599
I think that it was one of those
things. Those things where I

873
00:53:04,739 --> 00:53:08,039
would have done it differently.
I would, you know, I programmed

874
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:10,199
both these radio stations. I
want to see both of them

875
00:53:10,199 --> 00:53:13,979
succeed. And I think the focus
really shifted to KDF and the

876
00:53:13,979 --> 00:53:17,339
new future and the goals there.
And then we're going to take

877
00:53:17,339 --> 00:53:20,819
these pieces and we're going to,
we're going to toss them over

878
00:53:20,819 --> 00:53:24,259
here and let the I should not be
having this conversation that's

879
00:53:24,259 --> 00:53:27,259
over my pay grade, and I don't
know. I mean, maybe I'm

880
00:53:27,259 --> 00:53:30,739
completely wrong. So I
absolutely wasn't in the room,

881
00:53:30,739 --> 00:53:33,739
obviously, but it just feels
like, from a listener

882
00:53:33,739 --> 00:53:37,639
standpoint, that the focus
became, we are going to get KDF

883
00:53:37,879 --> 00:53:40,699
across the finish line, and it
is going to attack si X and

884
00:53:40,699 --> 00:53:45,279
we're going to be the number one
country radio station. And I

885
00:53:45,279 --> 00:53:49,959
don't care what happens with
everything else and, and from a

886
00:53:49,959 --> 00:53:54,579
programmer who loves radio, that
hurts a little bit, yeah, you

887
00:53:54,579 --> 00:53:59,199
know, you're throwing away a big
stick again. It's a big that's a

888
00:53:59,199 --> 00:54:04,019
big statement. I don't mean
anything by that, other than

889
00:54:04,319 --> 00:54:05,579
outside looking in,

890
00:54:05,580 --> 00:54:07,740
sure. I mean, that's just a
competitive analysis.

891
00:54:09,780 --> 00:54:14,040
I have this. I wish I had that
stick, if I had that signal for

892
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:18,480
y'all, wow. I mean, I'd love to
have it, you know, we'd love to

893
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,940
buy it and have it in our
building. That's just not gonna

894
00:54:20,940 --> 00:54:22,880
happen, you know. And I think
it's a little bit of an

895
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,400
afterthought right now, which is
sad, because there's some great

896
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,100
people over there. There's been
great people over there. There's

897
00:54:28,100 --> 00:54:30,920
some great programming over
there. They still make money.

898
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,060
They're still viable.

899
00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:35,300
I just want them to be important
too.

900
00:54:36,619 --> 00:54:40,599
Yeah, out of all the music radio
that you've programmed, I mean,

901
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:44,439
is there a format that just
really gets your juices going?

902
00:54:44,499 --> 00:54:48,519
Polka? I love polka. Jimmy,
stir. Is your guy?

903
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:55,900
Man, love me. Yeah, that's what
we're gonna do. You know, I

904
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,920
country's probably in my blood.
You know, I've programmed a.

905
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,700
Bunch of country radio stations.
I've launched a handful, three

906
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:06,960
or four, but adult hits, you
know, it's the music that I grew

907
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:12,060
up with, yeah. And, you know, I
graduated high school and 82

908
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,100
that was a 1982 they had numbers
back then. And, you know, so

909
00:55:17,100 --> 00:55:20,480
journey and Boston, and, you
know, all those, those were the

910
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,160
bands, you know, sure. So we get
to still play all those. And I

911
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:29,060
was fortunate. There was a
couple. I heard the very first

912
00:55:29,060 --> 00:55:32,720
Jack launch. I was in Wichita,
actually, and I heard the first

913
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:37,040
Jack launch in the country in
Denver, and it was on this

914
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,300
little rim shot stick that
didn't have much of a chance. It

915
00:55:40,300 --> 00:55:43,600
sounded awesome. And I don't
even remember how I found it.

916
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,540
Started streaming. It started
listening to it. So this is

917
00:55:46,540 --> 00:55:50,860
probably oh four, and just fell
in love. Went to my company at

918
00:55:50,860 --> 00:55:54,400
that time, was journal, and
said, we have this stick that

919
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,100
hasn't been successful. This
what we should be doing. Thank

920
00:55:57,100 --> 00:55:59,560
God. They didn't listen to me.
They're like, No, we're not

921
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:04,380
going to do that. So couple
years go by, I leave, go to

922
00:56:04,380 --> 00:56:08,700
Kansas City, had an opportunity
to come back to Wichita, and

923
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,460
connoisseur media was restarting
their company. They had bought

924
00:56:11,460 --> 00:56:15,540
some construction permits, and
they said, We're going to do

925
00:56:15,540 --> 00:56:17,880
this adult hits thing. And my
first thought went, Oh, they're

926
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,020
going to do jack. So I went in
and had the conversation with

927
00:56:21,020 --> 00:56:24,560
them and found out it was going
to be a bob and Joel Folger had

928
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:29,660
been part of that, and I met him
back in Wichita, drove in from

929
00:56:29,660 --> 00:56:33,080
Kansas City, and we went to a
hotel conference room, and he,

930
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,900
he said, This is what we're
doing. This is how this

931
00:56:35,900 --> 00:56:39,320
schedules. This is what it looks
like. Couldn't have had a better

932
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,640
teacher at that point because he
he was on the ground floor of

933
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:47,320
adult hits. So I think I spent
two or three hours with him, and

934
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:51,520
he said, Do you want the job?
And I said, I think I probably

935
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,120
do. And he goes, Okay, well,
this is now your laptop. And I

936
00:56:55,120 --> 00:57:01,080
went, what? And he goes, so
here's the key, here's your

937
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,040
laptop. Here's the password. Can
you just start scheduling music

938
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:07,980
tomorrow? And I said, Well, I'm
still working in Kansas City.

939
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,840
And he's like, no, no, you got
this? Here's the transmitter

940
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,540
site. That's where the computer
is. They're building studios.

941
00:57:15,540 --> 00:57:19,440
They'll call you on Monday. And
I was just like, I think I

942
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,640
program an adult hits radio
station now, and so that's sort

943
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:27,980
of how I got involved in it. And
it's Joel passed away a couple

944
00:57:27,980 --> 00:57:33,200
years ago, and he program, or he
consulted a station in Austin

945
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:37,580
and a station in Pittsburgh,
which, if you go back and

946
00:57:37,700 --> 00:57:42,940
research the last 10 years of
adult hits radio stations, my

947
00:57:42,940 --> 00:57:46,840
jack and those two Bob's are
probably the highest rated three

948
00:57:47,140 --> 00:57:53,320
consistent brands doing adult
hits, and his footprint is

949
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,020
definitely on all three of
those. So there's a little tip

950
00:57:56,020 --> 00:57:58,660
of the hat that the guy knew
what he was doing. There's a

951
00:57:58,660 --> 00:58:01,020
couple other guys that were
doing it at that point too, but

952
00:58:01,020 --> 00:58:07,020
Joel really kind of taught me
the ropes. So I love adult hits,

953
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,680
but there's something about
country I love to first really

954
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:15,120
big radio station I worked for
was K 95 in Tulsa. And you know,

955
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,820
that was when you had a half a
million dollar marketing budget.

956
00:58:18,060 --> 00:58:21,800
That's when we had a concert
every week at Tulsa city limits,

957
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,460
which is the club that you know,
Ronnie Dunn wrote boot scooting

958
00:58:25,460 --> 00:58:28,940
Boogie about. The video was
filmed there. I was there. I

959
00:58:28,940 --> 00:58:33,620
mean, that was the heyday of
doing country that stuck with

960
00:58:33,620 --> 00:58:37,880
me. So what I when I started,
y'all, I actually referred back

961
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:42,280
to that time, and some of the,
some of the print and my LPD

962
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:46,780
from K 95 called me and said,
Oh, I It's amazing that you even

963
00:58:46,780 --> 00:58:49,840
mentioned the brand. And I was
like, No, it's just that's who

964
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,020
we're going to be. So that has
always been a part of me, even

965
00:58:53,020 --> 00:58:56,080
though I kind of grew up in that
rock vein. So I I'm getting the

966
00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:00,100
best of both worlds. I get to
relive my, you know, teenage

967
00:59:00,100 --> 00:59:03,600
years doing jack, and I get to
relive, you know, my 20s doing

968
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,660
country and, and I'm doing this
thing with pickle jar too. I

969
00:59:06,660 --> 00:59:09,900
have a little connection there.
And so I'm getting to do new

970
00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:15,660
country as well. So I don't
think I could pick three better

971
00:59:15,660 --> 00:59:19,680
formats to play with. Yeah,
that's fun. Yeah. Does keep me a

972
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,360
little busy. Nothing wrong with
that, nothing wrong with that.

973
00:59:23,420 --> 00:59:26,720
So it's fun. All right, there
you go.

974
00:59:27,860 --> 00:59:29,300
I just rambled on. God

975
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,560
myself trouble because I've said

976
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,040
things somebody's gonna quote me
on now, hey, we all got in

977
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,220
trouble on this one, bud.
Remember you signed the release?

978
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,640
You know, I have a crusty the
clown doll in my office that has

979
00:59:45,700 --> 00:59:48,640
the string, and you just pull
it, and it actually has, I don't

980
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,860
know if anybody seen the
episode, but there's one where

981
00:59:50,860 --> 00:59:54,220
there's a flip on a switch on
the back that says evil or good.

982
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,760
And if it's evil, it says, you
know, like, crusty is going to

983
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,420
kill you. You know, that's and
if you and it's like, oh. Crusty

984
01:00:00,420 --> 01:00:02,820
loves you if you put it on good
and I don't, I don't know what

985
01:00:02,820 --> 01:00:07,980
it's on right now. I should have
checked that. Check my back, but

986
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:09,000
Travis, I'm sorry.

987
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:14,460
You know, this is what a very
natural and organic feeling

988
01:00:14,460 --> 01:00:15,780
conversation can produce.

989
01:00:15,779 --> 01:00:19,199
That's exactly right. And we do
this all the time. We get

990
01:00:19,199 --> 01:00:20,099
ourselves in trouble.

991
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,460
But bad, like, I just completely
rambled on the whole time.

992
01:00:25,460 --> 01:00:29,180
So no, you did not okay. It was
entertaining and informative,

993
01:00:29,300 --> 01:00:31,100
and we've enjoyed having you on
with us.

994
01:00:31,099 --> 01:00:33,979
Well, I appreciate the
appreciate your time, and all

995
01:00:33,979 --> 01:00:34,759
these stations

996
01:00:34,820 --> 01:00:39,080
and Jack FM and, of course,
y'all, yeah, good. My wife, like

997
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:43,600
I said, and she's made a convert
out of me. Now I now, when I get

998
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:44,980
in her truck, I tuned to yellow

999
01:00:44,980 --> 01:00:47,860
if you can find about 200,000
more people.

1000
01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:55,600
Now, Jay, tell folks where they
can find

1001
01:00:56,139 --> 01:00:59,799
of course, we always like to
point you to the website

1002
01:00:59,799 --> 01:01:04,019
circling the drain.net. But
again, you can see our lovely

1003
01:01:04,019 --> 01:01:10,679
smiling faces. This is a video
podcast at our Yes, our social

1004
01:01:10,679 --> 01:01:14,639
media, yes, our social media.
That would be Facebook. Of

1005
01:01:14,639 --> 01:01:18,539
course. Just search circling the
drain Nashville on Facebook. You

1006
01:01:18,539 --> 01:01:22,459
can also find us on X formerly
Twitter. How long do we say

1007
01:01:22,459 --> 01:01:25,579
formerly Twitter? Probably
forever. And of course, our

1008
01:01:25,579 --> 01:01:30,139
YouTube channel like and share
radio, does the all new X? Yeah,

1009
01:01:30,139 --> 01:01:34,999
they all say that for five
years, but yeah, circling the

1010
01:01:34,999 --> 01:01:39,139
dream.net, man. We got t shirts,
we got hats, we got all kind of

1011
01:01:39,139 --> 01:01:43,659
fun stuff. We got even photos of
all, yes, the scary photo, yes,

1012
01:01:43,899 --> 01:01:46,899
yeah, so we appreciate you
checking things out

1013
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,420
and check us out next time on
circling the drain, you.