Welcome to the Love, Sex and Leadership podcast where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom and live an inspired life as a natural, intuitive and heart centered leader. Hello everyone and welcome to Love, Sex and Leadership. I'm very excited to have my friend Charlene Gisele with us and coming in from the south of France, I'm in central Portugal. We both determined it's very hot in Europe today. And yeah, I've excited for this conversation especially it's around the topics of burnout. It's around the topics of how we as a human sometimes push too much. And Charlene is a burnout specialist. She's a hypnotherapist and, and lots of experience and knowledge in this field and very excited to dive deep with you all today. So welcome Charlene today to the conversation. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm so excited to be here with you today. Amazing, amazing. So, yeah, a little bit, tell me a little bit of your story and what makes you now kind of helping people through burnout. I imagine there's probably some strong burnout in your life, but share a little bit with the audience of. Yes, yes, yes. Especially for those people that are the go getters that are always pushing and going and going and going and. Yeah. What your experience was with that. Yeah, yeah, I love that question. Thank you. Well, look, the truth is it started all the way from childhood, as most things do, don't they? I know you're a trauma informed practitioner and you do a lot of great work in that field. So I would say that my childhood was actually one of those golden childhoods. So not, not perhaps, you know, the. When you start with. It started with my childhood. You're expecting a big teach from our revelation. But with me it was a bit different in the sense that it was one of those golden childhood with a lot of expectation. So I was the last of a big family of four siblings. I was adored by my family and with all their love, they put immense expectations on me. Not in a way that had any bad intention, of course, but my dad was incredibly successful. He was very ambitious, had a very accomplished business. My mom didn't work, she was raising the kids. And he brought me up in a way that success was inevitable. And I was going to be the top girl in class, the grade A student. I was gonna aim high. There was no other option but Oxford or Cambridge. And you know, you could do anything in life, but it would be so much better if it was something that involved being a lawyer, so. And frankly, that's all I wanted to do. You know, some little girls dream about being a princess or riding unicorns. My dream was to be a lawyer. That's, that's all I wanted to do and make my father proud. So yeah, that's, that's really my childhood. I was so studious, so conscientious. I wanted to learn fast, be the best, work hard, make a lot of money. I, I know it sounds very materialistic, but that was my definition of success, right? And so guess what? I did that. And yes, I was a high flying lawyer. I joined one of the largest American law firm and it was an amazing experience, but I became completely obsessed with it and frankly, it became an addiction. I became completely addicted to work. So much so that my marriage break broke apart quickly. After a few years of working at that pace, I found myself being a divorcee. I couldn't sustain my health. I was diagnosed with clinical insomnia and general anxiety disorder. And I became a shadow or shell of the person that I was. I dropped all my passions, I dropped my hobbies, I even dropped my friends because all I wanted to do was work. And honestly I think I would have continued to do that. But then my father had a burnout driven heart attack. And that's the moment that shifted everything for me. So he has the, the heart attack and then there's a, a place of self reflection that happens or what, what's some of that process? Because this to me is the, you know, it's interesting states I think for everyone. We have these different breaking points and sometimes it takes like multiple breaking points. It sounds like this is one that really hit close to your heart. Yes, in some ways. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Good, good, good comment here. The truth is I saw my future when that happened to him because I was doing everything in my power to become a version of him. So when he had a heart attack, first of all, you know, there was very little chances that he was going to survive. And thank God he did. But when you're facing a life or death situation and doctors are telling you that they not sure that your person you love so much in the world is going to make the night. It shifts your paradigm in life. So I thought, is this my version of my future? Because so far all I ever wanted to do was to make daddy proud and follow his lead and his footsteps. But then, you know, the fear of losing him was immense. And I thought, well, all this life we had a very privileged childhood. We've Never been left to desire for anything. We had a beautiful home and things we didn't need. But then suddenly we could be about to lose our father, right? And then nothing really meant anything at that point. So for me, it was the decision that made me realize I wanted to be an ambassador for really high powered, really ambitious professionals. Not just lawyers, any professionals that were really, really ambitious, that were actually putting their life at risk because of their ways of working, like my father did and like I was doing. So in that timeline of things is like, I find these moments happen and we hit a. You know, I can look at many different times in my life of hitting a rock bottom and then how much quickly after that was there actually a place of self reflection and then change, because it requires a change in lifestyle, requires a change, and we as humans, we resist change. Like, you were working consistently, you're working hard, money was coming in. So, like, what was it? What was the timeline in that that actually made you have a strong change in your life where you should start to see an embodied difference? Yeah, I love that question. And exactly as you said, it wasn't overnight, right? So, first of all, I had huge amounts of commitment. You know, I had a flat in London, I had work, I couldn't quit from one day to the next. I was still married at the time. So between the decision to make a change and the making a change, there were months that happened. But the way I did it is quite radical and quite brutal, and I'm not sure I would recommend to do that. But I. I packed everything up, I quit, I left my flat, I got a divorce and I went to live in Bali, as a lot of people do. And the reason I did that was because I was on a quest for my own healing. At this point, I wanted to understand what were my, you know, my. My sort of shadows and my darker days. And the reason why I got myself into this position because frankly, I don't like to use the word broken, you know, because I don't think anyone is ever broken. Just we are on the path of repair. But I. I was in a pretty bad shape, mentally, emotionally and physically. So. So the reason I decided to do that is because I had always been drawn to yoga and meditation, but I had, of course, no time to do it whatsoever. So I thought I need an immersion, almost like an addict removes themself from the substance. My substance was work. So I needed something quite drastic. And then shortly after that, I actually took it even further and I went to an ashram in India for Three months. So even more drastic because I thought I need something that really deep immersion where I have no access to emails, no triggers, no access to my suits, no labels of being a lawyer. And so going from being a American law firm lawyer in oil and gas litigation to going to an ashram in India to meditate with my guru was quite a shift. That's a, that's a strong shift. That sounds like a few shifts of mine when I was actually, I mean, my last job in the maritime field actually was with oil and gas. And yeah, I left, left, left that a couple of times. But one of the first times I left it, I didn't get on a flight to Kenya and I got on a flight to California and I started a program in spiritual psychology. So I went from, you know, one side to the other side. So I understand the shift, the radical shift strike quite strongly for sure. And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm curious with that because in the, you know, in the radical shift and now as you've kind of regulated yourself into the work you're doing now and the hypnotherapy and, and you know, the helping people with burnout, like, where do you notice that? Because even in this work, like the amount of projects, the amount of things that I do, you know, I'm managing properties, I'm working with clients, I'm running this podcast. Like, I, I'm tracking my own level of, like, how much I can manage and do and trying to find balance and I, I find different ways to do it. But I'm curious for you, in your experience that you went through, like, what do you do now conscientiously, to not make your current work? Because it's always worked in one way, shape or form, not to the same degree as, as what you did before. What are some of the small things that you might, might do? I love that question so much and I think it's such a significant one because let's face it, and let's just start with a bit of a truth check because I'm burnout prone. I will always be burnout prone. In other words, you don't make a type A ambitious person become chilled overnight. Right? Like, I'm never not going to be an ambitious, driven, conscientious professional. But I have made some serious changes and especially around the way I love and the way I think and when I say love, you know, when I exited my previous marriage, I realized with hindsight that there were many toxic traits in that relationship and that marriage. And when I started my new path, more spiritual path, much more aligned path. I also met a partner who's now become my husband, who is really calm, really grounded, really reflective, and really aligned in terms of health and well being. We actually met outside a yoga studio. So you can't do a lot more aligned than that. And the, the reason I mentioned that though is because I think it's so important not to say that you need to be dependent upon somebody else to find your equilibrium, but nurturing that relationship while building a business and setting some boundaries in place so that I wouldn't neglect my love for love. And my desire to be in a romantic relationship has been such a learning curve because if I'm being honest, in my previous marriage I did prioritize work over my partner every single opportunity I got. In this current marriage, I learned to set boundaries. In other words, if I have a commitment with my husband, like be it a date night or a cinema or he's cooked for me, I, I am not going to let work come in the way. Yes, there's going to be unexpected, urgent emails. I'm not gonna lie and say that never happens, of course, and we both understand that, we're both professional. But I put things in the diary, like I sent him Google invites. I know that sounds extreme, but that's the way I know I can honor the space that we've created for our marriage because otherwise it's gonna to get booked by my assistant for my clients. So yes, I do send, you know, diary invites to my husband to have a date with me. But it works, right? And do you. This is something I started doing years ago. I mean, I still like. I generally don't never do sessions Saturday or Sunday. And now I schedule off like a whole day on Wednesday that generally I don't have anything. Sometimes I have to fit a client in there and do that. But like that, that's, that's helped me quite a bit. Do you find yourself still as an entrepreneur working five days a week, or do you have like a scheduled day off that you do or how do you manage that? I love that question. It's a really important question and I hope that my answer won't be shocking, but I want to keep it really authentic and real. I don't do weekends in the traditional way, so it's actually quite common for me to work on Saturdays and Sundays because especially with coaching and hypnotherapy, my clients are more available at the weekend. But what I do do is I take what I call clean breaks and Clean days off. So. So they're not your conventional weekends. They're not your conventional July or August holidays. They're clean days. Typically it's a Monday, because Monday they're so busy, they have to be focused on work. So their priority is not to get hypnotized or to get coached. Right. So Mondays are usually a good day for me to have a clean day, but if I have a clean day, I mean clean. So I'm not going to be on emails, I'm not going to check my notifications, and I'm not going to be available. So I put systems in place that buffer my stress away and allow me to fully recover. If I compare that to back when I was a lawyer, I was always on. So even on conventional weekends, I was still checking emails and getting email anxieties. Now I may be working Saturday and Sunday, but if I'm not working on a Monday, I'm truly not working. That's great. Yeah, it's my, My, My beloved. We have actually have a. A baby coming in September. Very exciting. Oh, is it your first baby? It's our first baby, yeah. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And she. She went through, I mean, before we knew each other years ago, she was working in the kind of corporate world and went through a pretty strong burnout. And so she kind of tracks her energy, you know, now, you know, she's not working traditionally in the sense. I mean, I'm. I'm tight financially taking care of her, but, you know, we're working on a lot of real estate projects and things, and we can really. I noticed that, like, when that energy is just going and going and going and we both actually starting right around September where, you know, I'm taking a full two months off with the baby coming in and just, you know, preparing ourselves for that way. But I like that. I like that word you use with clean break, because it, it feels that, you know, it's really an intentional time to not have anything else around. And I. I don't know that I'm a full type A personality. I mean, maybe other people would tell us differently, but, you know, there's this. There's this place of wanting to. Like, I find it wanting to be in service to my soul and wanting to. To support and wanting to serve. And, you know, I'm curious how this feels for you, which is like, for me, like, I'm running often 15 to 20 retreats a year, and I'm working a lot and I'm, you know, I have a lot of things on I mean, of course sometimes it feels like work, but in many ways it doesn't have the same feeling as of work as when I used to work on ships and I was a mariner. So how does your relationship with work now feel as an entrepreneur? And I imagine doing things that you love compared to the days in the law firm. I love that question and it brings a big smile on my face because there are two things that I love most in my business. The first one is the feeling that I get when I come out of coaching session and I see a shift or I see progress, or I get a Christmas card from the kitties, or I get to meet the cat or the pet of the family, here's my labradoodle. Or, you know, I get to meet the wife, or I get to see, see that something's shifted and that I don't like to say I made a difference because it's always my clients who made the difference, but I've been honored to be part of that shift and somehow a messenger to support that. You know, I, I, I often find clients in very, very dark places. When I mean find sounds like, you know, I'm finding them, perhaps that's the wrong word. But when they come to me, typically as a burnout advisor, is because they've hit, if not rock bottom, pretty close to that. So I typically deal with clients who have even, you know, contemplated ideas of suicide ideation. They've contemplated just quitting their jobs, but also doing something that would injure their, their self. I've had clients that have deliberately broken a limb to be on leave because they were afraid that if they were found out to have a mental health issue, they will be perceived at weak in the office. So I've had a client that deliberately broke a leg so that they could get time off, you see. So I deal with kind of the really dark side of the psychology. And so when I come to them, I really want to be there. And sure, their session is intense, but then when I get to see them on the other side, when they're thriving again and they're well and I've been part of that process, that joy and that satisfaction, yes, it's work, but it brings me a sense of happiness that's so immense that that nourishes my soul. And, and it's interesting that you've asked me that question because I think that the reason I wanted to be a lawyer in the first place was to get to feel this feeling. And I never really felt it in a big corporation. And I'm so sad about that because one of the reason I wanted to be a lawyer was to, yes, there was the, the money and the status and, you know, all of that. Right. But, but deep down I believe that there was something about being the person who helps, you know, that I had a fantasy that of all the professions, you know, I could have chosen trader or something else. Like if, if all you want is make money, there are other things that you can do other than being a lawyer. Right. But I think deep down there was a fantasy to help and to serve. And unfortunately, because of the way the corporate world is structured, I didn't get that human proximity that made me feel as satisfied. Whereas now it's so intimate. The work that I do, we talk about the dark days, the thoughts like we can't even communicate to others. The addictions, the behaviors, the secret behaviors. Right. I have a lot of clients that are binging, purging, using alcohol for relief, using drugs, things they couldn't ever disclose on the public place. And they say that to me. So you become a confident. There are many days where as hard work as it is, that that does not feel like work. So when I get asked the question, well, that's heavy lifting you're doing. Like, those are intense session. How do you recharge? Well, yes, I have a protocol to recharge my energy and to meet my client where they're at. But I, I, I truly think that it's almost like a gift exchange. Like, I'm so grateful that I have this ability to help. Yeah. I remember a similar feeling for myself when I started studying psychology and I was living in LA and I was starting to work with clients and suddenly it was like there was this like, lightness and I could work for, for hours and dedicate all this time and energy and it was so much like I was just lit up by it. And even, you know, I have a similar feeling after working with a, you know, after the end of a session or the end of a retreat or a weekend workshop, there's just this, like, wow, okay, I've, I've made a shift and a change in, you know, either one individual or a group of individuals. And that's like, it's kind of unlike anything else in many ways. You know, I've been able to access and to touch upon. So, yeah, I can definitely appreciate what you're sharing. I, I, you know, this is more of a question around human behavior and looking at addictions and, and I'm sure for yourself, having looked at your own Addictions and the addictions that we carry as humans, but this part of us that is addicted to work and is addicted to almost suffering in a way, and addicted to long hours. Like what, what, what do you find? Of course it's different for everyone, but what do you find are some of the, the universal pieces that almost, you know, drive people to such a level of unhealthiness and even, you know, when they know it's bad and that they continue to do it, or you know, smoking is bad and we continue to do it and you know, we have all these different addictions or you know, you know, you shouldn't have 10 beers at the end of a day, but people do. It's like all these addictions, each one has its own. But I'm curious from the. Especially the side of kind of the, you know, the psychotherapy and those pieces, like what your thoughts are on the realms of addictions and why we as a humanity in groups of individuals are so addicted prone. Yes, great question. So there are many components, there is physiological components and there are psychological components to this. Answer the first one from a psychological standpoint, and I know this is a bold thing to say, but I'm pretty confident to say it. I'm yet to find any professional who is suffering from burnout and work addiction who hasn't had some kind of big T trauma in their life, specifically around the childhood. And it doesn't have to be trauma in the sort of conventional thought of trauma, but it can be a feeling of abandonment from the parent, it can be under pressure, it can be any kind of trauma, perceived trauma as well. Because really an addiction is often a response to a traumatic experience that would have happened years and years before. And it could be something somatic as well. Like for instance, I fell off my father's Range Rover. Total freak accident. Nobody's fault. Like fell backward when I was age 3. And as a result of the fall, I lost momentary vision and my eyes. I'll spare graphic details for anyone who's a bit sensitive, but a pretty gruesome accident. So much so that I had to have an emergency eye operation because it triggers trabism and I couldn't see straight. It was pretty horrible. And I've had a traumatic response. Gives severe PTSD from that event of remembering not to be able to see or to see well for a while and post op as well with like very uncomfortable vision, etc. I didn't remember that in my conscious mind, but I remembered all of those trauma during hypnotherapy with my first hypnotherapist. And what was really interesting is from that point onward, I developed a really, really strong sense of I had to work hard, I had to be the best, I had to show up, I had to make sure. So I developed stories about how I needed to show up in the world as a certain version because, you know, I was at one point mocked in school for having certain kind of goggles or, you know, so you, you develop from bullying or anything that you've gone through. Or it can be a somatic trauma. So this is just an example, right? Or it can be a form of violence that you've experienced, emotional violence or physical violence. It can be that one of your parents didn't really pay attention to you. It could be that you were bullied in school because of your weight. It could be that you could. Any kind of trauma goes. But when it comes to work, then it gives you the opportunity to forge a new identity where you're good at something. So most people who are addicted to work are addicted to work because it's one thing they feel really good at and get rewarded for really highly. So if you have something that you perceive as a weakness when you work and you're good. So that's why it's very common with people that are suffering from example of being dyslexic or even having a bit of ADHD or being on a spectrum. So you would work that much more to compensate for what will be perceived as a challenge that you're looking to overcome. So I have many of my clients that have actually been diagnosed later and years as ADHD on the spectrum. Now, that's not considered to be a trauma, but it can be very traumatic to be in school and not to understand why you're the odd one out, why some people work this way and you don't work that way. But then you realize you're super smart. And when you get to work, you can make a lot of money and you get a lot of rewards. You get the promotion, you get the big paycheck. So how nice is it? Why wouldn't you do more of one thing? You get to realize you're good at when everything else is against the odds, right? So it's very common. It's a natural conclusion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's very common to. To find 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 forms of trauma. Big T trauma or small T traumas whenever we look at work addictions, because we often compensate for that. We feel somehow weaker about on one front. So another good reason, if I can say this, for work addiction is not being in a really good relationship. So for example, my toxic marriage was a vicious circle because being in the toxic marriage contributed to me working even harder. But working even harder contributed to the relationship becoming even more toxic. Right. So it's very common to meet professionals who are burnt out, who have sex less marriages, very low libido or very toxic marriages, or partnerships with very high risk sexual behavior with a lot of passionate but not conscious relationship, because again, you're trying to gamble your life away and get that kind of dopamine hit to feel something. Right. So work addiction often breeds another kind of addiction. So in my line of work, when I work with professionals that suffer from work addiction, it's not uncommon to discover that there is underpinning alcohol addiction or drug addiction, or sex addiction, or game addictions, or other forms of addictions that we would call co addictions that are actually the net result of other forms of trauma. No, thank you for that. And, and for yourself, when you were kind of, that you could say more of the, the, the peak before your kind of crash and your burnout, what was your sex life like with your partner? Was it like kind of, it didn't exist or was it, you know, kind of very passionate but disconnected or what were some of your own experience like that? I'm curious. And then how that connects to now. You worked with sensuality and sexuality and working with people in that way. Yeah, disconnected, very disconnected. It was actually one of those relationship that I think should last one night rather than a marriage. If I'm being completely honest. It was, it was founded on the wrong foundations. Let's just call a cat a cat. It was a very passionate relationship, but not the kind of passion that's sustainable, the kind of push passion that gets you burned. Right. So it was a very volatile relationship, a very high octane relationship. And the lines of communication were actually very poor. And I say that now because in a very calm relationship. So the contrast is almost sort of two worlds apart. It feels like I've also become a different versions through the different relationship that I'm in now. Not to say that my current marriage is not a passionate one, but the passion that is a sustainable, loving and kind and benevolent, where I genuinely want the best for him and he genuinely wants the best for me. Whereas the previous one there was a lot more ego, a lot more clashes, a lot more conflicts, and there was a sort of a speed to the relationship that was very qui pro quo. Right. There was a lot of tit for tats and not a lot of support and love and, you know, selfless acts of, of service, for example, which there is a whole lot now in, in my current marriage. So I think that's a, for me, that's a very big contrast. And you know, for, for clients you're working with that are kind of breaking free from the, the, the work addiction and the burnout, where, where do you feel like the, the, the, the best steps can be to be able to have then the healthy sensuality and sexuality, you know, and for myself, I'm working a lot with, with sexuality and retreats and you know, you know, I'm always curious to. One of the things that's been interesting for me is just to see where I can actually start to bridge some of the gap between the much more like secular people that come for sexuality work compared to bringing some of those things into more corporate environment. But I'm curious from your perspective, like, where, where do you feel like some of those pieces can be connected to support some of your clients in that way? I think that's an excellent question. And truthfully, I think it has a lot to do with your state. And what I mean by that is when you are in a stressed state, yes, you may have high libido, right? You may want to have that, you know, hot and passionate when you get home, but almost like a release or almost like a one and done as opposed to. I'm so happy to be back home and I'm delighted to be in your presence and you know, I want to look in your eyes and I love the way you smell and I love the way I feel around you like that. To me, that's much more aligned with the current vision that I have in my marriage where we, we meet when we're our best versions of self, right? So our love making comes from a place of being grounded and happy as opposed to quick release or, you know, sort of had a rough day or that to me is a reflection of your state. So I think when you're in a state that is a state where you're more reflective, where you're less addicted to whatever the substance may be. You have so much more to give to your partner, but also your partner can meet you exactly where you at. So I have a lot of my clients going through burnout that are actually in what I call sexless marriages. So. So that's not something that's ever happened to me, not in the past and definitely not in my current marriage. But I have a lot of experience from secondhand experience of being at the receiving end of the stories. And typically it goes, I'm too exhausted, I'm so busy. I like sex is the last thing on my mind. I can't even get to sleep, let alone get to think about how to please her or how to please him. Right. It's actually extremely common to be in sexless relationships and it kind of breeds all kind of insecurities because again, it's a vicious circle that would lead the partners to then seek comfort in work. So then the person works more because why stay in bed? Your partner doesn't really give attention to you or doesn't give a whether you're in bed or not. So you might as well get up and get paid. Get up, get paid and get shit done. Get done. Get that promotion. Get that bonus, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And you know, when it comes to emotions and working with emotions and witnessing people's relationship with emotions, I find, you know, especially for individuals that have never done any type of somatic work or emotional release work or, you know, being with more of their anger and their sadness, which, you know, with some of the big T, the stronger traumatic events, usually that's what's underneath the belly of so much of it. Where, where do you see or how do you kind of support the navigation of that with clients in, you know, because I imagine you're doing a fair amount of online sessions. I do a lot of online sessions as well and like navigating that in healthy ways to support someone to actually have a change in their own emotional body. Because that is where I see the greatest change that needs to happen is actually being able to feel our emotions and not surprising, repress them. And then all these, you know, things don't really arrive in that way. But how, how do you, you know, work with that with clients and how do you visualize that, you know, supporting them to have a healthier relationship with their emotion? Because a lot of people are, are terrified of feeling anger and sadness and all the, the thought and ideas and beliefs on what that means when they're angry or sad. Yeah, well, that's a good question. And actually a lot of it is working with repressed memories and emotion. So that's why I use the tool of clinical hypnotherapy. And if I, I can give you a no name basis example of one of my clients who was really struggling with erectile dysfunction for many, many years and feeling a lot of performance anxiety with multiple different female partners and it didn't matter, at least as far as he was telling me whether he was in a loving relationship or more of a, you know, sort of, I don't want to say one night stand, but a sort of looser relationship. He still felt a lot of performance anxiety, a lot of discomfort, a lot of lack of confidence, and he couldn't really pinpoint where that stem from. And so we did a little bit of work on a coaching basis. But I could see that this wasn't really going anywhere because it's not so much that he was not willing to share is that he couldn't consciously pinpoint to the root code. So what I like to think as the event, so what is the primary event that's ever happened that shifted your belief around sexuality and around the fact that sex for you had to be a performance or there was something to be anxious about, or there was something for you to do in a specific way. So what I did with him, and he was more than happy to do that and gave me full consent permission, is that I installed a trend state with a series of suggestions that we had agreed upon and they were aligned with his holistic well being and overarching goal to unroot that primary event and to see if we could reform any memories or recollect anything that he might have gone through that could be pinpoint to where he started to feel different about his body and about his sexuality. And it turned out that at summertime, many, many moons ago, in fact, when he was a little boy, although he was under adult supervision when the kids were playing, one of the boy had been playing with him and was quite indecent and he'd been molested and it was very embarrassing for him because he was in a house with parents, but that was happening all up in the attic because the kids were playing. And he formed a belief that because he got aroused with that interaction that he was going to be aroused more around men because that boy was, you know, it was a boy to boy interaction. And hence, although he grew up a heterosexual man, he felt immense pressure at an unconscious level to satisfy a woman because he formed that early on belief that he was getting aroused by a boy. And he was also in a position to arouse a boy. So there was so much work to do around entangling. But also that was a repressed memory. He did not consciously not. He didn't consciously remember it up until the point that came up in his hypnotherapy. Right. So that is so fascinating, isn't it? That you can access the unconscious mind to recall a memory that is real and that is accurate, but that was repressed. And from that point onward, we could recall, unroot, and recover. And that has actually unfolded in him being able to rekindle his perceived sexuality and to engage with a desired woman that he intended to be sexual with in a very conscious way without any erectile dysfunction or performance anxiety. Amazing, Amazing. Good work. It's one example. No, it's, you know, it's, it's especially in being a man and, you know, working with a lot of men. The men's retreats I run are kind of deep dive initiations for men into a lot of the areas that they never discuss around their sexuality and emotions. And we do, you know, a lot of embodiments. It's remarkable actually, how much men, you know, the levels of shame and conditioning and the programming that it's kind of instilled in at a young age. And then if you look at society like a man's emotions and a man's issues and the things that are underneath the surface never really have much of a time, time and a space. And you know, to me, it's examples like this that really showcase that, especially around our sexual conditioning. So they don't feel like we have any place to really go. So I'm, I'm curious for you, like, in what you're doing, like, where is your, where is your edge right now? Where is your edge in your own personal life around your emotions or your sexuality or your leadership? Like, what are some of the things that your leaning into and discovering more about? Because that's one thing I really, you know, as being an embodiment coach and somatic facilitator and you know, both working in these fields, like, I know for myself, I, I trust and lean into the facilitators and the coaches that I know are consciously not just talking about the work, but doing the work. And that's a, an example of, of, you know, showing up and being the best student for your own self and so you can be a better facilitator. So where are some of your edges that you're leaning into around emotions and sexuality and leadership and these things. I'm curious, how much time do we have? 10 minutes. Right. My goodness. So first of all, I'm gonna say like, A, I, I really love that question and B, like, not only do I honor that you asked that, but a bit like you, like, I wouldn't really trust the facilitator or a coach that's not getting coached themselves. So I have at least three coaches and that's on a good month. Right. I, I, I am work in progress and I do have a series of big T trauma that although I have worked through over the years, like I know will stay with me and have stayed with me and they will resurface in terms of trigger as, as, as life happens. Right. So what I'm working on, on right now, which is, you know, something that is quite personal for me to share publicly, but I think it's only fair considering the role that I have in my client's life, is navigating the public appearance of being a keynote speaker and doing all the work that I do, which demands a lot of travel. So I have a global team and I have global engagements. So I'm constantly, you know, one, one week in Asia, the other week in New York, etc. And navigating my desire to be a mom. So I'm closer to my 40s that I am to my 30s. It's, you know, no secret. I'm pretty open about my age and being in a really beautiful marriage and you know, loving my husband so much. It's one of our desire to grow a family, but it's a lot of work and moving pieces around the timing of the pregnancy and the engagements and the keynotes and how that can work and you know, potentially affect clients, etc. So that piece is a piece that I'm currently working on and getting coached on as well to really honor that space, especially because I do a lot of work with expecting mom and pregnancy. So I'm really, really passionate and I was a stepmom in my previous marriage. So parenting is something that's close to my heart. So I would say that that's my biggest, that's my biggest sort of work in progress at the moment is the path of, of motherhood and the path of conceiving and, and becoming a mom. That's, that's, that's my current path. Amazing. Amazing. Well, that's a one very near and dear to me right now with our, our little one coming in the world and so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, it's an interesting look at a question of values and knowing a lot of very, especially for feet for women. Like, I have a lot of friends that are, you know, high performance coaches and facilitators and a very kind of global life and them stepping into the world of motherhood, it was just like, you know, not a total shift, but just a rewiring of, of sometimes what's most important, I mean, nature and bringing, you know, a baby into this world is like all that energy that was over there that's now, you know, going in there. It's fascinating even, you know, with my partner Natasha, so she's always kind of researching what's happening in the brain and how the brain is impacted through pregnancy and how the focus literally, like completely biologically is just a shift into. Everything goes into this child and that, that, that part that used to be able to, you know, manage a global business. I'm sure it'll still be there, but at a different, a different state. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And, and that's, that's tough when you are, you know, effectively the face of the company and you have such a global role, especially when, when you have the company. So that's, that's an identity shift that I'm currently working on so that it's not this or that, it's this and that. Because I have the absolute belief that I can really do both and do it well. But it's the, you know, how to put the pieces together and make it happen and be really staying on track to prioritizing your health and well being while also wanting to continue to serve my clients at the highest level and, and be a mom. So, you know, it's not all, it's all. And Right. Yeah, it's all, all pieced together and, and being a woman, that helps people access more of their intuition. And what does your intuition guide you towards around your journey into motherhood? Is there a few children coming? Is this something that's. Yes, Definitely. Yes. Yes. 100. Yes. Yes. I do see that very much so in the cards and I think it's, it's a beautiful piece of life. I mean, the closest experience I've had to motherhood is, you know, when I was raising my, my stepson. Of course it's going to be a very different journey, but from what I've experienced so far, every single part of me wants to, wants to experience that again and I've never experienced pregnancy, so that's something that I've always wanted and I think it's such a blessing. Beautiful. So, last question before we close. And I'm sure we could talk about this one a long time, but in this, in this role of, you know, potentially going into the role of mother and having a partner in your life, how do you feel the dynamic of like the male being the provider or are you still, you know, co. Financially supporting, you know, and being a strong Businesswoman that's, you know, financially supporting yourself and how do you feel that with stepping into the role of, of the mother? Like is there a expectation, desire that he's completely financially supporting or is it a, is it a co support together? What's your, what's your business spidey sense on this one? It's much, many, many layers to it. But you know, and just tell me your thoughts. Yeah, it's a great question. I love that very much. And I think it's an important question to, to navigate and something that we talk about quite openly with my husband and his vision is very aligned with mine. So we don't really think of it as who is the main provider. We think of it of whose season of life is the season within which they need the most support. Right. So that's really our vision. So it's not really sex orientated. So for me it's not a gender question. It's not whether he's a man and I'm a woman and therefore he should be provide or I should provide because I being able in my life to provide a lot of financial securities to people I love. And he also has the same capacity. So he has provider capacity, I have provider capacity. The way we look at it and because we're both entrepreneur, that really helps. We look at it as my pregnancy will be a season of my life where his support will be more important than ever. But at the same time I've also anticipated that being a professional and a type A by putting measures in place financially and business wise so that that period of my life can happen and I can feel really secured about it. I think it's also important to say that when you're in a marriage you can lean on to your partner more during a period season of your life. Right. Like this idea that you need to be fiercely independent and you need to be a feminist about it all. Like this is not me. Like I love leaning on him and I also love the fact that he can lean on me at different seasons of his life. Right. So it's not a, in my opinion, it's not a gender conversation, it's where are you at and who can support the other and do you have more financial capacity right now? Do you have more physical capacity to do more work? Do you need some time off? Well then let me fill in. Right. Is that not because you're a man or woman? It's because you can and I can't. Right, that's the idea. So that's, that's our philosophy and it's very aligned. But I love the idea that he can take care of me for a while. And I love the idea that in the future I can take care of him for a while. Amazing. Amazing. Sounds like a perfect balance. So before, before we close together, if people want to find out more about your work and the things that you do in the world, what's the the best way to send them? That will be through my podcast as well. Just like you, I have a show so the Charlotte Gisele Show. If you want to learn more about burnout, it's weekly explanation around what burnout does to your brain and your overall well being. So if you want to drop into that and then the second way as a gift, it will be to understand where you are on your burnout recovery. So I have a free burnout assessment test. It will be a really good healthy point for you to get started just to understand where you add and what tools could help you. So those are two complementary resources that I would love to share with the world. Amazing. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today, Charlene. Thank you for joining this. I really appreciate the the humans that you're supporting on this planet, especially around burnout and hypnotherapy. And yeah, it sounds like you're doing the power, powerful and amazing work and appreciate you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you all for tuning in. This has been another episode of Love, Sex and Leadership. Please, please like or subscribe and we'd love to see you here again. Have an amazing day.