WEBVTT

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You are listening to the USDN on the

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DFPN.

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Thank you.

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What is up, everybody?

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It's the chairman here of the United

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States Department of Nerds,

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where we are for the people,

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by the people, and of the people.

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And sometimes in comic books,

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it's easy to spot the good guys.

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Red, white,

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and blue wrap tight around righteousness.

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But here in the real world,

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half the country would despise anyone who

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dressed up and tried to pretend to be

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Captain America.

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So what happens when a symbol of unity

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becomes a weapon of division?

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When the mantle of patriotism weighs

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heavier than the armor itself?

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Tonight on the USDN podcast,

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we're talking with John Lazar.

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Lazar.

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Nailed it.

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Writer of General Washington and the

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Liberty Tree,

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a Tom Clancy-style political thriller that

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asks,

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Who owns America's symbol and who's

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allowed to wear them?

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It's a legacy of power, patriotism,

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and conflict where an alien symbiote

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chooses its next host.

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And the burden of a divided nation falls

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on two men fighting for what's left of

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the American dream.

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John,

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welcome to the United States Department of

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Nerds.

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Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Good to be here.

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How was that intro for you?

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That was fantastic.

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Couldn't have put it better myself.

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That's the pitch of the conference.

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I do my best work when I'm doing

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an intro.

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So we're done here.

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I'll play it.

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Absolutely.

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I like the opening video and everything,

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too.

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It's very cool.

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Very cool.

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Appreciate it.

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I owe that to my good buddy, Black,

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who took care of me and made that

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for me.

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But let's start at the top, John.

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What is General Washington and the Liberty

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Tree, and where did this story come from?

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Yeah, you know,

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you put it really well yourself just a

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minute ago.

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It's just that idea that, you know,

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I think,

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and it's one of the things I love

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about superhero comics, it's...

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It's very clear who the good guy is

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and who the bad guy is.

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And we're trying to conquer the world or

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rob a bank or get revenge.

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But in the real world, we are fighting.

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uh over different things and everybody

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thinks you know they're the good guy and

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people with honest disagreements are the

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bad guy and if we had superheroes i

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think in the real world outside our window

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um

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you know,

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we'd be spending more time fighting each

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other than, you know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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Then, then, you know,

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then that clarity of good guys and bad

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guys.

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So again,

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it's the idea that if anybody tried to

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be captain America in the real world right

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now, you know,

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half the country would hate you.

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Yeah.

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Because we've got entirely different,

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you know, I don't know.

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Yeah.

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Do you watch Strange New Worlds,

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Star Trek Strange New Worlds?

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No, I'm a Star Wars guy.

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I do like the older Star Trek, though.

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I'm a huge fan of the earlier stuff,

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so I will watch the older stuff.

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It's fair.

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I highly recommend the show.

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But one of the early episodes there,

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I'm not a huge Star Trek guy either,

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actually.

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But I guess there's a big like nuclear

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war in Earth's past,

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like right around now, I think.

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No, I think you're right.

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Right.

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I think it was twenty twenty five is

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when the original Star Trek.

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is the year I think it was supposed

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to take place.

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Yeah.

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There's, there's a huge, and, and, um,

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it's, it's,

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I think it's one of the first might

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even be the first episode, but, uh,

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the captain is talking to this alien

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civilization that's on the brink of

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destroying themselves in a similar way.

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And the way he puts it is two

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dueling ideas about what freedom means,

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not good guys and bad guys,

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but two different ideas about what the

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right thing to do is.

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And that just,

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that resonated with me so strongly

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because, you know,

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we've all got super strong opinions about

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these things, but, uh,

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You know, who decides?

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Who decides what's right and wrong?

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Who decides what patriotism means?

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Yeah.

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No, that...

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It is weird to see us kind of,

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like, right back into, like...

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it feels like we're more divided now than

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we have been in quite some time with

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the,

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with everything going on in the world.

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And I hate seeing it that way.

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Cause coming up in the military,

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we were all just one,

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like we were there job and we didn't

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care about anything else.

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We'll do our job.

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We'll get our paycheck.

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And at the end of the day,

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we're going to go have a beer together,

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you know?

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we bullshit about everything and anything

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and nothing in between, you know?

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Yeah, no, that's definitely.

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And that's, you know,

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that's kind of one of the things that

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I want to explore with the book and

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what it would be like to, you know,

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have to carry that weight.

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Yeah.

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You know, I think,

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I think the other thing, and I, again,

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I love it about superhero comics,

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but like,

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You know, your basic superhero story.

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You get powers.

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You learn a quick lesson about power and

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responsibility.

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You know,

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it takes about twenty minutes and then

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you're a good professional superhero for

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the rest of your life.

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That's a good two issue spread.

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Twenty minutes.

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Yeah.

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Maybe three.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, the way they expand things now,

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they can do it for a year.

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Mark Waid could make it brilliant.

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But, you know, if it happened to me,

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like if I got bit by a radioactive

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whatever, I would be so bad at it.

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Like, well, whatever.

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You know, I don't know.

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I think ninety nine percent of us would

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stumble through it and just never figure

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it out.

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Right.

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It's like, oh,

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I can lift a car now.

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It doesn't mean I've got hand-eye

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coordination.

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It doesn't mean I'm not afraid.

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I would be the guy that dropped that

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car on my own toe.

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That's exactly right.

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I'd be like Superman number one,

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only I'd drop it on myself.

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So that's another thing.

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I thought about what it would be like

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to try to...

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carry that weight, that mantle.

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And especially if you're just a guy,

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like he's not,

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the character that we introduced in the

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first issue, Dale Gatner, he's just,

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you know, he's a real every man,

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not a Peter Parker every man,

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but a real just like, oh man,

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what did I stumble into?

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This is really, really hard.

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And, you know,

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he wants to do his best.

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He wants to serve his country and,

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and help people and do the right thing.

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But, you know,

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I just thinking about it right now,

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like I, it'd be a lot, man,

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you know.

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It is a lot to swallow all at

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one time.

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So the very first General Washington is

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George Washington West.

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Yes.

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And he did that.

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He held that mantle for sixty five years.

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From Normandy to Fallujah,

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he was like the ideal superhero for the

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time.

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So he's gone now.

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Ten years of silence.

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And then.

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It kind of felt like.

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the tree just wouldn't.

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So let's back up.

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The Liberty Tree in this story is a

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symbiote,

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similar to Venom and any other symbiotes

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out there.

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But it's very selective on who it will

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basically bond with.

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Yes, thank you.

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And so I think that's one of the

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dopest ideas ever, by the way.

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It's really cool that

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there's a tree, the liberty tree,

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you know, is like, no, not this guy,

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next.

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You know, how did that come about?

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It's so funny because, like, you know,

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I'm trying to tell this story that I

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want to tell, and, like,

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the superpowers aspect is, it didn't,

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it's like,

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I'll work out who's got what powers later.

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Um...

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And, again, with that sort of, like,

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idea I was just talking about of, like,

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you know,

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the everyman thrust in a situation that he

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never asked for.

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The George Washington West,

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that original character, he's very, like,

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don't tell Marvel, don't tell Disney,

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but it's a very, like,

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meant to evoke Steve Rogers,

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the kind of character.

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Yeah, yeah.

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You a hundred percent get that vibe when

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it shows the general...

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I'm sorry, the George Washington West.

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It one hundred percent felt like that.

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Which is funny because this new comic book

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day, Captain America,

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seventeen seventeen seventy six came out

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and that Captain Marvel was eerily similar

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to your George Washington West's character

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when it does the flashback to him.

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yeah it's it's it's uh i it's i

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i bought that issue i haven't had a

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chance to look at my comics yet um

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yeah like designing uh designing new

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superhero characters is tricky oh yeah i i

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imagine there's i don't think there's a

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character out there today who really isn't

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influenced

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from a character of yesteryear.

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It's just hard.

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It's all been done.

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One of the big processes of this project

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has been pulling characters that are meant

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to evoke

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You know, it's like, you are,

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you're supposed to look at this guy and

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think that's Captain America,

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that's Wonder Woman, that's the Flash.

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But that haven't been taken by any of

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the, by Marvel, by DC, by Astro City,

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by Image, by all of these worlds.

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And then I'm also, you know,

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I'm trying to pick up on some,

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because it's a book about patriotism in

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America and just trying to pick up some

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characters from American history.

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Yeah.

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You know,

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we've got we've got a speedster who has

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kind of an old time.

00:12:21.663 --> 00:12:21.803
Like,

00:12:21.844 --> 00:12:22.804
I don't know if you watch old John

00:12:22.845 --> 00:12:23.485
Wayne movies.

00:12:24.225 --> 00:12:24.527
Oh, no.

00:12:24.567 --> 00:12:25.206
One hundred percent.

00:12:25.607 --> 00:12:26.427
I grew up on that.

00:12:26.849 --> 00:12:27.048
Yeah.

00:12:27.068 --> 00:12:27.509
But, you know,

00:12:27.548 --> 00:12:28.971
he's he's he's got he's got like the

00:12:29.010 --> 00:12:30.312
old cavalryman uniform.

00:12:30.371 --> 00:12:30.631
Right.

00:12:30.731 --> 00:12:30.912
Yeah.

00:12:31.172 --> 00:12:32.153
Yeah.

00:12:32.173 --> 00:12:33.193
I did notice that.

00:12:33.214 --> 00:12:34.836
And I was wondering where the influence of

00:12:34.855 --> 00:12:35.475
that came from.

00:12:35.495 --> 00:12:36.736
And I'm glad you said John Wayne,

00:12:36.777 --> 00:12:38.938
because that's all my grandma watched

00:12:38.958 --> 00:12:39.440
growing up.

00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:40.340
Yeah.

00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:41.922
Bonanza and Gunsmoke.

00:12:42.884 --> 00:12:44.686
So as a kid, I'm sitting there going,

00:12:44.725 --> 00:12:46.427
hey, is Scooby-Doo on yet?

00:12:46.488 --> 00:12:46.948
And she's like,

00:12:47.490 --> 00:12:49.172
sit your ass down and watch Gunsmoke,

00:12:49.251 --> 00:12:49.852
Grandma.

00:12:50.633 --> 00:12:51.934
Can I go outside then?

00:12:52.154 --> 00:12:53.177
It's raining.

00:12:54.138 --> 00:12:55.339
All right, Gunsmoke it is.

00:12:56.961 --> 00:12:57.942
That's great.

00:12:57.961 --> 00:13:00.065
No, I love old Westerns and like...

00:13:01.683 --> 00:13:01.864
You know,

00:13:01.884 --> 00:13:05.071
you're trying to find stuff that hasn't

00:13:05.091 --> 00:13:07.414
been used and you get an idea that

00:13:07.455 --> 00:13:09.158
it doesn't, you know,

00:13:09.438 --> 00:13:10.500
it doesn't trigger anything in your

00:13:10.541 --> 00:13:10.841
memory.

00:13:10.861 --> 00:13:11.864
You go look on the internet,

00:13:11.884 --> 00:13:12.625
you type in the,

00:13:13.429 --> 00:13:15.511
You type in superhero and then the name.

00:13:15.532 --> 00:13:17.312
And then and it's like, no, actually,

00:13:17.373 --> 00:13:20.195
somebody in nineteen eighty two in

00:13:20.315 --> 00:13:22.056
Squadron Supreme number four,

00:13:22.135 --> 00:13:24.738
like use this name so you can't have

00:13:24.778 --> 00:13:24.918
it.

00:13:26.538 --> 00:13:27.019
But we you know,

00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:28.900
we got the speedster and like I'm

00:13:28.921 --> 00:13:30.402
brainstorming names came up with

00:13:30.481 --> 00:13:31.121
thoroughbred,

00:13:31.163 --> 00:13:32.482
which is a pretty good name for a

00:13:32.503 --> 00:13:33.464
speedster.

00:13:33.563 --> 00:13:34.264
It really is.

00:13:34.284 --> 00:13:34.985
Yeah.

00:13:35.105 --> 00:13:38.206
And somehow nobody's nobody's taken it.

00:13:39.307 --> 00:13:40.929
And then suddenly it's just like, oh,

00:13:40.950 --> 00:13:42.351
he can be a cavalryman.

00:13:42.432 --> 00:13:44.214
And like that blue and that yellow,

00:13:44.254 --> 00:13:46.177
that's such a great superhero look.

00:13:46.277 --> 00:13:52.663
And then the secret ingredient is our

00:13:52.724 --> 00:13:53.865
artist, Jason Muir.

00:13:53.885 --> 00:13:55.447
Yep, yep.

00:13:56.969 --> 00:13:58.690
I don't know if you've read By the

00:13:58.730 --> 00:13:59.289
Horns.

00:14:00.490 --> 00:14:01.010
I have not.

00:14:01.350 --> 00:14:02.691
Is it a Western comic book?

00:14:03.071 --> 00:14:05.091
No, it's a fantasy comic book.

00:14:05.231 --> 00:14:05.772
Okay.

00:14:05.912 --> 00:14:07.712
And it's put out by Scout.

00:14:08.092 --> 00:14:09.493
My shop,

00:14:09.712 --> 00:14:13.394
they've got a really great independent

00:14:13.414 --> 00:14:13.794
shelf.

00:14:15.774 --> 00:14:20.376
Bro, he is such an incredible designer.

00:14:20.437 --> 00:14:22.738
And that book, he's designing not just...

00:14:23.876 --> 00:14:26.518
humans, but like non-human creatures.

00:14:26.538 --> 00:14:28.437
There's unicorn, big floating eye.

00:14:28.898 --> 00:14:32.839
He's got such an incredible design sense,

00:14:32.859 --> 00:14:34.599
which is not something that even like,

00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:34.839
I mean,

00:14:34.859 --> 00:14:37.200
there are so many really successful

00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:41.400
pencillers who don't really design

00:14:41.441 --> 00:14:42.120
characters well.

00:14:42.160 --> 00:14:44.000
And I don't have a visual sense at

00:14:44.061 --> 00:14:47.501
all, so I'm not pointing the finger.

00:14:47.522 --> 00:14:48.741
But yeah, like,

00:14:48.922 --> 00:14:50.942
and he did so much great work because

00:14:50.982 --> 00:14:51.403
we need,

00:14:52.894 --> 00:14:54.514
We need the golden age version of the

00:14:54.554 --> 00:14:55.054
character.

00:14:55.115 --> 00:14:56.495
We need a modern version.

00:14:57.916 --> 00:14:59.976
That was one of my favorite things about

00:15:00.017 --> 00:15:02.378
the book is the way it blended the

00:15:02.477 --> 00:15:05.778
two different eras during the flashback of

00:15:05.839 --> 00:15:06.500
those scenes.

00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.140
Especially when you got the whole

00:15:09.160 --> 00:15:09.400
little...

00:15:09.721 --> 00:15:10.640
I don't want to say it was a

00:15:10.701 --> 00:15:11.442
Justice League,

00:15:11.461 --> 00:15:14.043
but the little Justice League from the

00:15:14.102 --> 00:15:16.903
flashback episodes in the book.

00:15:16.923 --> 00:15:20.424
I was like, this is so freaking cool.

00:15:20.865 --> 00:15:21.446
The way...

00:15:23.067 --> 00:15:25.630
even the character design itself was very

00:15:26.191 --> 00:15:28.714
golden age then you had the very modern

00:15:28.754 --> 00:15:32.616
looking one and i was like i can

00:15:32.636 --> 00:15:35.019
get behind this this is cool because i

00:15:35.058 --> 00:15:39.163
like that kind of stuff oh yeah uh

00:15:39.182 --> 00:15:40.705
i uh the golden age wasn't that long

00:15:40.764 --> 00:15:44.388
ago so yeah and it's like i mean

00:15:44.447 --> 00:15:45.369
i love that like

00:15:46.875 --> 00:15:48.236
mean i got all this i got all

00:15:48.256 --> 00:15:50.980
my merchant stuff and like my my friends

00:15:51.019 --> 00:15:52.841
always ask me like i don't i uh

00:15:53.222 --> 00:15:57.006
i love the movies right mcu but like

00:15:57.027 --> 00:15:59.690
when it comes to stuff i want in

00:15:59.730 --> 00:16:01.692
my house on my shelf i just love

00:16:01.753 --> 00:16:04.416
those old like official handbook of the

00:16:04.436 --> 00:16:05.356
marvel universe

00:16:06.556 --> 00:16:08.736
right simple colors and designs like i

00:16:08.756 --> 00:16:11.337
know i know it doesn't look real it's

00:16:11.357 --> 00:16:13.158
not supposed to it's a comic book and

00:16:13.198 --> 00:16:14.918
like yeah i love all the things that

00:16:14.938 --> 00:16:17.559
they've done in the movies to help you

00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:19.581
suspend disbelief and make it look real

00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:21.461
like the leather and the body armor but

00:16:21.481 --> 00:16:25.504
it's it's not where my heart is no

00:16:25.844 --> 00:16:29.845
uh yeah i it's it's hard you know

00:16:29.884 --> 00:16:31.525
because i know a lot of um

00:16:32.793 --> 00:16:35.695
people who still just prefer that era of

00:16:35.735 --> 00:16:37.056
comic book, the golden age.

00:16:37.856 --> 00:16:38.778
Here I am like,

00:16:39.638 --> 00:16:41.899
I'm absolutely in love with the modern

00:16:41.980 --> 00:16:44.341
stuff because during the modern age,

00:16:45.243 --> 00:16:48.384
we got a lot more independent comments and

00:16:48.404 --> 00:16:51.967
they don't have to have that.

00:16:52.028 --> 00:16:54.629
The dirt that the Marvel universe or the

00:16:54.730 --> 00:16:56.551
DC universe has to have.

00:16:57.052 --> 00:16:58.852
They're not restrictive comics.

00:16:59.522 --> 00:17:01.383
character over here on the indie comic can

00:17:01.423 --> 00:17:02.144
say fuck.

00:17:02.683 --> 00:17:04.164
They can say damn.

00:17:04.766 --> 00:17:06.287
They can punch you in the face and

00:17:06.326 --> 00:17:08.909
watch your face explode and we're going to

00:17:08.929 --> 00:17:11.451
get a full page of your head exploding.

00:17:12.131 --> 00:17:13.551
You're not going to get that Marvel in

00:17:13.612 --> 00:17:14.133
DC.

00:17:14.272 --> 00:17:15.894
You get a little bit in like the

00:17:15.933 --> 00:17:16.815
DC dark

00:17:17.761 --> 00:17:19.804
the old vertigo lineup you would get that

00:17:19.824 --> 00:17:22.306
kind of stuff but it was literally labeled

00:17:22.766 --> 00:17:26.249
plus adults on the old vertigo stuff so

00:17:26.509 --> 00:17:29.332
i've always found myself drawn more toward

00:17:30.373 --> 00:17:32.515
the independent scene of comic boats

00:17:33.737 --> 00:17:36.538
So did you I don't know.

00:17:36.558 --> 00:17:37.618
When did you get into comics?

00:17:37.739 --> 00:17:42.182
I started I got into comics right around

00:17:42.201 --> 00:17:44.202
the time that Spawn was born.

00:17:44.242 --> 00:17:46.903
So like ninety three exact exact same

00:17:46.963 --> 00:17:47.285
time.

00:17:47.924 --> 00:17:49.826
And like, you know,

00:17:50.006 --> 00:17:52.287
I I had a buddy who had the

00:17:52.366 --> 00:17:55.269
old I don't even remember what it was

00:17:55.308 --> 00:17:55.509
called.

00:17:55.528 --> 00:17:56.150
They've done so many.

00:17:56.190 --> 00:17:58.530
But it was a Marvel Universe role playing

00:17:58.550 --> 00:17:58.891
game.

00:17:59.270 --> 00:18:00.031
And like, yeah, yeah.

00:18:00.827 --> 00:18:02.749
And it's just all these characters.

00:18:02.828 --> 00:18:05.689
I just fell in love immediately and found

00:18:05.788 --> 00:18:07.869
a bookstore near my house that sold

00:18:07.910 --> 00:18:08.369
comics.

00:18:08.970 --> 00:18:09.769
Fell in love with Marvel,

00:18:09.789 --> 00:18:10.671
fell in love with DC.

00:18:10.711 --> 00:18:16.352
But then I found Valiant.

00:18:17.913 --> 00:18:18.813
Oh, that's a good one.

00:18:20.699 --> 00:18:22.300
That early Valiant stuff.

00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:24.442
It's funny because you talked about seeing

00:18:24.462 --> 00:18:25.884
a guy's head explode, right?

00:18:27.244 --> 00:18:30.648
One of the first Valiant comics I bought,

00:18:30.949 --> 00:18:32.150
hardcore number one.

00:18:33.932 --> 00:18:36.854
The gimmick they had there with the powers

00:18:37.054 --> 00:18:40.176
was they've got all kinds of different

00:18:40.217 --> 00:18:43.160
powers and they call into headquarters to

00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:44.141
switch them, right?

00:18:45.019 --> 00:18:47.381
And that created all kinds of fun action

00:18:47.401 --> 00:18:49.201
scenes, but they can only have one time.

00:18:49.922 --> 00:18:51.481
And at the climax of the first issue,

00:18:51.521 --> 00:18:52.982
I can't remember who wrote it or drew

00:18:53.042 --> 00:18:54.364
it, but the dude,

00:18:54.763 --> 00:18:56.663
he's got invulnerability on,

00:18:56.683 --> 00:18:58.325
like that's the power off.

00:18:58.785 --> 00:18:59.786
Got a big strong guy,

00:19:00.105 --> 00:19:01.125
got him in a bear hug,

00:19:01.526 --> 00:19:02.386
but he's invulnerable,

00:19:02.426 --> 00:19:06.008
so he can't hurt him.

00:19:06.067 --> 00:19:07.729
So he sticks his fist in the guy's

00:19:07.769 --> 00:19:08.048
mouth.

00:19:09.207 --> 00:19:11.549
and has him switch to a power with

00:19:11.589 --> 00:19:13.070
a force field on his fist and the

00:19:13.090 --> 00:19:16.134
dude's head explodes.

00:19:16.154 --> 00:19:16.355
Yes.

00:19:16.434 --> 00:19:18.857
And I'm in like eighth grade and I

00:19:18.897 --> 00:19:20.519
love Fantastic Four and I love the

00:19:20.539 --> 00:19:22.461
Avengers and I love the X-Men, but then...

00:19:23.472 --> 00:19:26.015
uh that was like it was more adults

00:19:26.335 --> 00:19:29.116
and kids so that was me i i

00:19:29.498 --> 00:19:32.900
i liked the darker grittier comics that we

00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:36.303
got with the valiance and you know well

00:19:36.323 --> 00:19:37.903
malibu was the first one that did the

00:19:37.943 --> 00:19:41.185
first spawn before todd started image and

00:19:41.226 --> 00:19:42.708
started producing spawn himself

00:19:43.701 --> 00:19:46.583
And just anything like that that I could

00:19:46.603 --> 00:19:48.664
get my hands on that was darker and

00:19:48.744 --> 00:19:51.326
greedier than what was going on in the

00:19:51.365 --> 00:19:54.167
rainbow world of Marvel in DC.

00:19:54.868 --> 00:19:55.048
Now,

00:19:55.068 --> 00:19:57.590
I did find Vertigo very early as well.

00:19:58.692 --> 00:20:01.713
So I have some earlier Vertigo stuff with

00:20:01.794 --> 00:20:04.134
Neil Gaiman's writing and that kind of

00:20:04.174 --> 00:20:04.556
stuff.

00:20:05.355 --> 00:20:09.179
And he just told a gritty, dirty story,

00:20:09.378 --> 00:20:12.101
whether from a magic standpoint or just...

00:20:13.334 --> 00:20:15.434
You know, something like that.

00:20:15.494 --> 00:20:17.777
And I fell in love with Hellblazer,

00:20:18.557 --> 00:20:19.577
Swamp Thing.

00:20:20.258 --> 00:20:23.800
I'm just like, these dudes are gritty.

00:20:23.840 --> 00:20:25.741
And I never really liked Wonder Woman

00:20:26.342 --> 00:20:28.103
until I seen her in Justice League Dark

00:20:28.123 --> 00:20:29.443
when she was the leader of it.

00:20:31.305 --> 00:20:34.106
I haven't read that one yet.

00:20:34.227 --> 00:20:35.688
I got a big heart of her.

00:20:35.708 --> 00:20:37.528
There's no way, looking in your office,

00:20:37.548 --> 00:20:38.829
that you don't have that one.

00:20:39.940 --> 00:20:42.601
uh i love i uh uh i it's

00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:45.101
it's it's it's on my list i it

00:20:45.121 --> 00:20:47.382
might be next would you believe i i

00:20:47.442 --> 00:20:50.702
have uh i have re i didn't read

00:20:50.742 --> 00:20:54.243
my first hellblazer comic until uh god

00:20:54.284 --> 00:20:56.864
like two years ago cy spurrier did

00:20:56.923 --> 00:21:00.265
something with a murphy yeah um and now

00:21:01.164 --> 00:21:02.746
there's there's like three years brun is

00:21:02.905 --> 00:21:06.267
so good yeah he's a good writer oh

00:21:06.287 --> 00:21:06.586
dude

00:21:08.604 --> 00:21:08.983
Yes.

00:21:09.884 --> 00:21:10.164
Yes.

00:21:10.204 --> 00:21:11.385
That's all I can like.

00:21:13.268 --> 00:21:14.788
And then Gaiman's influence.

00:21:14.828 --> 00:21:15.930
I know a lot of people have gone

00:21:15.970 --> 00:21:19.113
away from Gaiman due to recent allegations

00:21:19.153 --> 00:21:20.114
and stuff like that.

00:21:21.154 --> 00:21:22.796
But I'm never going to take away from

00:21:22.836 --> 00:21:24.577
the fact that the dude is just such

00:21:24.597 --> 00:21:27.681
a damn good writer and brought us so

00:21:27.721 --> 00:21:30.182
many characters that are unforgettable.

00:21:31.423 --> 00:21:33.104
Within that universe.

00:21:33.924 --> 00:21:36.566
So, no, absolutely, a hundred percent.

00:21:37.086 --> 00:21:37.707
Besides,

00:21:37.727 --> 00:21:39.807
there's something about his Hellblazer run

00:21:40.949 --> 00:21:43.431
that is just absolutely special.

00:21:43.490 --> 00:21:44.971
And I actually ended up getting it in

00:21:45.051 --> 00:21:47.252
hardback because I couldn't find

00:21:47.373 --> 00:21:49.173
individual issues because they're just so

00:21:49.193 --> 00:21:50.214
hard to get your hands on.

00:21:51.257 --> 00:21:55.001
Yeah, I read, because I still, you know,

00:21:55.021 --> 00:21:56.003
when I started making comics,

00:21:56.044 --> 00:21:58.928
I became more interested in independent

00:21:59.689 --> 00:21:59.949
stuff.

00:21:59.989 --> 00:22:02.893
He did a book called Alienated for Boom,

00:22:02.972 --> 00:22:03.314
I think.

00:22:03.773 --> 00:22:03.974
Mm-hmm.

00:22:07.093 --> 00:22:10.715
I love these different takes on superhero

00:22:10.736 --> 00:22:14.638
themes and trying to do something similar

00:22:14.659 --> 00:22:15.199
with my book.

00:22:15.239 --> 00:22:16.901
Just a little something that people will

00:22:16.921 --> 00:22:21.664
find familiar and hopefully a little off

00:22:21.704 --> 00:22:22.565
the beaten path,

00:22:23.445 --> 00:22:24.166
like you're talking about.

00:22:24.186 --> 00:22:25.347
It's off the beaten path,

00:22:25.367 --> 00:22:27.648
but in a very good way.

00:22:29.290 --> 00:22:31.413
I know we were talking before we went

00:22:31.513 --> 00:22:34.856
live how I am very much against the

00:22:34.896 --> 00:22:36.398
discussion of politics,

00:22:37.180 --> 00:22:39.863
but the approach that your book took to

00:22:39.883 --> 00:22:42.205
that, it's not divisive.

00:22:42.385 --> 00:22:43.126
You know what I'm saying?

00:22:43.207 --> 00:22:44.848
It doesn't try to have...

00:22:46.782 --> 00:22:47.903
political unrest,

00:22:48.502 --> 00:22:50.784
like some of the heavy politic political

00:22:50.804 --> 00:22:51.624
comments will do.

00:22:52.084 --> 00:22:53.284
So how did you go about,

00:22:53.865 --> 00:22:56.444
like finding that happy medium in this

00:22:56.644 --> 00:22:58.305
book to kind of like,

00:22:59.165 --> 00:23:00.405
I don't want to piss off these people.

00:23:00.546 --> 00:23:02.026
I don't want to piss off these people.

00:23:02.465 --> 00:23:05.227
I just want something down the middle to

00:23:05.247 --> 00:23:08.367
where it could unite both sides of that

00:23:08.407 --> 00:23:09.887
political fence, so to speak.

00:23:11.051 --> 00:23:12.452
Yeah, that's really tough because,

00:23:13.835 --> 00:23:14.154
of course,

00:23:14.194 --> 00:23:16.696
I have super specific political beliefs

00:23:16.717 --> 00:23:18.679
that I won't get into on your show,

00:23:18.699 --> 00:23:18.959
brother.

00:23:20.201 --> 00:23:23.423
I read it on your blog,

00:23:23.443 --> 00:23:24.724
which was really cool to see.

00:23:25.685 --> 00:23:27.227
The mask for me was like,

00:23:27.708 --> 00:23:28.548
I like this guy,

00:23:28.567 --> 00:23:30.029
just the mask and the coffee cup.

00:23:30.955 --> 00:23:33.778
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:33.817 --> 00:23:34.798
That's a long story.

00:23:35.038 --> 00:23:37.421
We'll save that one for another time.

00:23:37.461 --> 00:23:39.541
Let's talk about General Washington.

00:23:39.922 --> 00:23:40.343
Yeah,

00:23:40.363 --> 00:23:41.323
you got to be able to poke fun

00:23:41.343 --> 00:23:41.743
at yourself.

00:23:41.864 --> 00:23:42.023
No.

00:23:43.124 --> 00:23:44.005
So I come from theater.

00:23:45.026 --> 00:23:49.548
And there is nothing in the world like

00:23:49.648 --> 00:23:52.010
bad political theater.

00:23:52.050 --> 00:23:52.250
Like...

00:23:53.266 --> 00:23:53.967
Trust me.

00:23:54.287 --> 00:23:54.406
Like,

00:23:54.446 --> 00:23:56.088
we've seen bad political movies and bad

00:23:56.128 --> 00:23:56.970
political comics.

00:23:57.130 --> 00:23:58.431
Oh, yeah.

00:23:59.071 --> 00:24:01.294
And it's just because it's cheaper.

00:24:01.314 --> 00:24:03.616
It's just easier to put on a bad

00:24:03.656 --> 00:24:04.436
political play.

00:24:05.117 --> 00:24:06.318
And people have, like, you know,

00:24:06.338 --> 00:24:09.803
they have the best of intentions because

00:24:09.823 --> 00:24:10.923
you've got a point of view and you

00:24:10.963 --> 00:24:13.185
want to share it and you want people

00:24:13.226 --> 00:24:14.748
to think like you say, tell a story.

00:24:15.087 --> 00:24:15.387
And...

00:24:16.464 --> 00:24:19.107
The easiest thing in the world is to

00:24:19.147 --> 00:24:20.909
just do a story where, like, oh,

00:24:20.929 --> 00:24:23.531
the people who think like me are good,

00:24:23.551 --> 00:24:24.893
they're virtuous, they're brave,

00:24:24.913 --> 00:24:25.473
they're funny,

00:24:25.554 --> 00:24:27.875
and people who don't think like me are

00:24:27.935 --> 00:24:28.696
terrible, awful,

00:24:28.737 --> 00:24:30.238
cowardly people who do vicious,

00:24:30.278 --> 00:24:31.118
terrible things.

00:24:31.558 --> 00:24:31.859
Right?

00:24:33.500 --> 00:24:33.721
Mm-hmm.

00:24:33.740 --> 00:24:34.461
I used to...

00:24:36.044 --> 00:24:39.145
I used to read scripts for a submission

00:24:39.185 --> 00:24:41.446
process for a, I live in Chicago.

00:24:41.946 --> 00:24:45.147
I used to read scripts for a explicitly

00:24:45.189 --> 00:24:46.429
political theater company.

00:24:47.309 --> 00:24:48.690
And, you know,

00:24:48.910 --> 00:24:52.932
I learned so much because I read,

00:24:54.032 --> 00:24:55.953
I read scripts ranging from like, Oh,

00:24:55.973 --> 00:24:56.733
this is really,

00:24:56.753 --> 00:24:59.496
this is really amazing to like, you know,

00:24:59.516 --> 00:25:00.435
don't quit your day job.

00:25:00.496 --> 00:25:00.796
Right.

00:25:01.797 --> 00:25:02.277
Yeah.

00:25:02.356 --> 00:25:02.477
Yeah.

00:25:03.046 --> 00:25:04.686
That's where my grandparents are from

00:25:04.747 --> 00:25:06.008
originally is from Chicago.

00:25:06.488 --> 00:25:06.768
Nice.

00:25:07.108 --> 00:25:08.670
My dad, my dad grew up here too,

00:25:08.950 --> 00:25:11.171
years and years ago in the thirties.

00:25:12.571 --> 00:25:13.752
But, you know,

00:25:13.833 --> 00:25:15.733
and you just learn that the stuff,

00:25:16.535 --> 00:25:19.096
the stuff that is preachy and simplistic

00:25:19.115 --> 00:25:19.576
like that,

00:25:20.817 --> 00:25:25.279
it's not effective in terms of evoking

00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:25.759
emotion.

00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:26.941
Like it, believe me,

00:25:26.980 --> 00:25:28.442
as somebody like I can get up on

00:25:28.481 --> 00:25:30.522
my high horse and waggle my finger and

00:25:30.563 --> 00:25:31.023
preach and,

00:25:31.965 --> 00:25:35.827
And if you're talking to somebody who

00:25:35.847 --> 00:25:39.329
already agrees with you about stuff,

00:25:39.930 --> 00:25:41.490
it's nice to jerk that chain now and

00:25:41.530 --> 00:25:41.730
then.

00:25:42.411 --> 00:25:46.252
But for the purposes of drama,

00:25:46.493 --> 00:25:49.234
for creating a story,

00:25:50.115 --> 00:25:54.136
you need to be able to get inside

00:25:54.176 --> 00:25:55.837
the head of people who don't think like

00:25:55.877 --> 00:25:56.659
you and see

00:25:57.696 --> 00:25:59.738
where they're coming from and not just

00:25:59.978 --> 00:26:01.318
villainize them because that might,

00:26:01.358 --> 00:26:02.878
you know, on a level it feels good,

00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:04.299
but it's not,

00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:06.161
it doesn't contain a lot of truth.

00:26:06.181 --> 00:26:09.422
There aren't a lot of people who think

00:26:09.481 --> 00:26:11.103
like I'm going out there to do something

00:26:11.163 --> 00:26:11.563
bad.

00:26:11.643 --> 00:26:11.942
Right.

00:26:12.604 --> 00:26:12.923
Yeah.

00:26:13.463 --> 00:26:14.684
And there's, there's a,

00:26:15.684 --> 00:26:17.746
that small piece from both sides of the

00:26:17.786 --> 00:26:19.386
wall that are that way.

00:26:19.487 --> 00:26:20.567
Yeah.

00:26:20.606 --> 00:26:21.607
And there's a time, but no, it's like,

00:26:21.728 --> 00:26:23.749
there's a, it's, um,

00:26:26.760 --> 00:26:28.102
You know, I want to there's a scene,

00:26:28.143 --> 00:26:29.022
there's a scene in a book,

00:26:29.564 --> 00:26:31.105
there's a scene in the comics takes place

00:26:31.246 --> 00:26:31.905
at a bar.

00:26:32.307 --> 00:26:34.308
And I've got a narrator who, you know,

00:26:34.429 --> 00:26:36.090
stands in for my beliefs to a certain

00:26:36.131 --> 00:26:36.530
extent.

00:26:37.571 --> 00:26:39.433
And I thought that part was really cool.

00:26:39.795 --> 00:26:42.037
The bar scenes.

00:26:42.116 --> 00:26:44.278
I thought that was a really cool thing

00:26:44.318 --> 00:26:44.519
to do.

00:26:45.722 --> 00:26:48.664
And it is, it's just, it's,

00:26:50.185 --> 00:26:51.968
he's got a point of view and he's

00:26:52.008 --> 00:26:52.968
kind of a jerk about it.

00:26:53.368 --> 00:26:54.670
And he's our narrator and we're supposed

00:26:54.690 --> 00:26:55.230
to like him.

00:26:55.790 --> 00:26:59.032
But at the same time, he's, you know,

00:26:59.073 --> 00:27:00.933
he's rude and dismissive of a guy.

00:27:01.734 --> 00:27:05.077
And he ends up hurting his feelings and

00:27:05.097 --> 00:27:07.538
chasing him out of the room and thinking

00:27:07.638 --> 00:27:09.740
maybe that wasn't the best.

00:27:10.721 --> 00:27:11.803
Maybe that wasn't a good choice.

00:27:12.551 --> 00:27:14.313
yeah and maybe i don't understand where

00:27:14.353 --> 00:27:16.074
he's coming from which is part of the

00:27:16.094 --> 00:27:17.615
journey he's going to go on throughout

00:27:17.674 --> 00:27:20.496
this story because he's a you know gene's

00:27:20.736 --> 00:27:22.217
got a little bit of a short temper

00:27:23.176 --> 00:27:25.739
and uh you know as somebody as somebody

00:27:25.778 --> 00:27:29.279
who's a short temper has gotten him into

00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:32.082
a few situations over the years yeah

00:27:32.102 --> 00:27:33.261
that's that's something that's something

00:27:33.281 --> 00:27:34.863
he probably needs to work on that's a

00:27:34.903 --> 00:27:37.944
chicago thing a hundred percent yeah yeah

00:27:38.125 --> 00:27:39.905
yeah so yeah you just try to be

00:27:40.086 --> 00:27:40.246
uh

00:27:41.476 --> 00:27:41.855
you know,

00:27:41.915 --> 00:27:44.518
fair and compassionate and empathetic

00:27:44.637 --> 00:27:45.499
towards everybody.

00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:49.021
Because, you know,

00:27:49.102 --> 00:27:50.403
people think they're doing the right

00:27:50.423 --> 00:27:50.722
thing.

00:27:51.223 --> 00:27:52.744
Whatever they do.

00:27:53.184 --> 00:27:54.586
And we bump up against each other.

00:27:54.945 --> 00:27:56.186
Life is hard, you know?

00:27:57.788 --> 00:27:58.449
Gotta be harder.

00:28:00.570 --> 00:28:02.551
Yeah.

00:28:02.571 --> 00:28:04.713
So, when this alien symbiote,

00:28:04.733 --> 00:28:05.694
the Liberty Tree,

00:28:06.255 --> 00:28:08.336
finally bonds with its new host, Del...

00:28:09.926 --> 00:28:11.928
The dude's not exactly Captain America two

00:28:11.968 --> 00:28:12.167
point.

00:28:12.307 --> 00:28:12.428
Oh,

00:28:12.768 --> 00:28:15.749
he's definitely on a on a different

00:28:15.788 --> 00:28:18.890
learning curve than Captain America was.

00:28:18.910 --> 00:28:19.569
That's for sure.

00:28:20.450 --> 00:28:23.191
So walk us through that.

00:28:23.230 --> 00:28:26.011
Like how like what was you going into

00:28:26.071 --> 00:28:26.291
this?

00:28:26.471 --> 00:28:28.971
Like like how am I going to let

00:28:29.031 --> 00:28:30.272
this the Liberty Tree,

00:28:30.292 --> 00:28:33.374
the symbiote pick its new hopes?

00:28:33.413 --> 00:28:35.173
Like what kind of walk us through that?

00:28:35.273 --> 00:28:38.355
Like how you landed on that?

00:28:39.747 --> 00:28:43.708
Yeah, that's actually one of the big,

00:28:44.429 --> 00:28:44.929
hopefully,

00:28:44.949 --> 00:28:47.609
and I'm glad you're curious about it,

00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:50.010
because I want that to be one of

00:28:50.030 --> 00:28:53.951
the big mysteries of the book that

00:28:53.991 --> 00:28:54.832
everybody's trying to solve.

00:28:54.892 --> 00:28:55.291
Basically,

00:28:55.311 --> 00:28:58.594
the idea is the character we've been

00:28:58.634 --> 00:29:00.473
talking about, the Golden Age version,

00:29:00.693 --> 00:29:01.755
George Washington West,

00:29:01.795 --> 00:29:03.295
he died about ten years ago.

00:29:04.395 --> 00:29:06.736
We're telling the story of the flashbacks

00:29:06.796 --> 00:29:07.376
of his death,

00:29:07.717 --> 00:29:07.957
and

00:29:09.184 --> 00:29:11.307
Let's add in this symbiote does kind of

00:29:12.048 --> 00:29:14.950
extend the life of the host.

00:29:15.651 --> 00:29:17.531
So I don't any,

00:29:18.653 --> 00:29:20.134
because it's weird when we're talking

00:29:20.153 --> 00:29:22.737
about from Normandy to Fallujah and you're

00:29:22.757 --> 00:29:23.897
like, well,

00:29:23.917 --> 00:29:25.298
this guy just died ten years ago.

00:29:25.338 --> 00:29:27.019
And I don't want people scratching their

00:29:27.059 --> 00:29:28.000
head going, wait, what?

00:29:28.040 --> 00:29:29.982
How does that math don't math?

00:29:30.542 --> 00:29:31.943
The host, the Liberty Tree,

00:29:31.963 --> 00:29:33.244
when it pits its new host,

00:29:34.066 --> 00:29:36.048
it does extend the life of the host.

00:29:36.738 --> 00:29:38.019
Comic book science, man.

00:29:38.278 --> 00:29:40.020
I gotta love it.

00:29:40.121 --> 00:29:41.662
It's like science, but better.

00:29:42.603 --> 00:29:43.442
So much better.

00:29:44.304 --> 00:29:44.663
You wouldn't,

00:29:44.683 --> 00:29:46.385
you get bit by radioactive spider.

00:29:46.425 --> 00:29:47.006
You die.

00:29:47.606 --> 00:29:48.106
You die.

00:29:49.228 --> 00:29:50.929
Um, yeah, no.

00:29:50.949 --> 00:29:55.593
So the idea is that when he dies,

00:29:55.732 --> 00:29:55.972
when he,

00:29:56.053 --> 00:29:57.273
when the original dies about ten years

00:29:57.294 --> 00:29:59.516
before the story takes place, um,

00:30:01.007 --> 00:30:03.769
the symbiont just won't bond with anybody

00:30:03.888 --> 00:30:04.148
else.

00:30:05.190 --> 00:30:08.432
And the government tries and tries and

00:30:08.471 --> 00:30:08.732
tries,

00:30:08.772 --> 00:30:11.394
tries everything that they can think of.

00:30:12.154 --> 00:30:13.256
And as you can imagine,

00:30:13.296 --> 00:30:15.477
like invests billions and billions of

00:30:15.517 --> 00:30:15.857
dollars,

00:30:15.897 --> 00:30:19.599
just trying to get a new general

00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:21.000
Washington, get a new superhero.

00:30:21.040 --> 00:30:22.162
We wanted to do,

00:30:22.182 --> 00:30:26.204
we want to do a world like,

00:30:27.605 --> 00:30:29.948
unlike a marvel or a dc where there's

00:30:29.968 --> 00:30:32.269
just a limitless supply of super powered

00:30:32.309 --> 00:30:36.352
beings um we really want like like around

00:30:36.412 --> 00:30:39.034
twenty or thirty in the whole yeah in

00:30:39.074 --> 00:30:42.557
the whole universe here so that um

00:30:44.739 --> 00:30:46.299
so that like the emergence of a new

00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:49.923
superhuman is just a major shift in the

00:30:49.942 --> 00:30:51.964
balance of power it's newsworthy

00:30:52.546 --> 00:30:54.727
absolutely it's not like oh there's you

00:30:54.747 --> 00:30:57.189
know toast man and he's got the power

00:30:57.209 --> 00:31:00.352
to toast and will that not not the

00:31:00.372 --> 00:31:02.212
best example but you get what i'm getting

00:31:02.374 --> 00:31:03.755
we get where you're going with it

00:31:05.601 --> 00:31:08.042
But can he butter the bread evenly is

00:31:08.083 --> 00:31:10.503
the important part of Toast Man.

00:31:11.084 --> 00:31:13.986
You need Butter Knife Man and their team.

00:31:14.006 --> 00:31:17.106
I'll write that next.

00:31:21.490 --> 00:31:22.029
Co-creator.

00:31:22.069 --> 00:31:24.892
We'll work out the rights.

00:31:26.893 --> 00:31:28.153
We'll divvy up the rights when we're off

00:31:28.173 --> 00:31:30.394
the air.

00:31:30.413 --> 00:31:32.255
The idea is that it's been ten years

00:31:32.576 --> 00:31:33.016
and

00:31:34.320 --> 00:31:35.301
during that time,

00:31:35.461 --> 00:31:37.022
America hasn't had a superhero,

00:31:37.282 --> 00:31:40.746
and so we just feel vulnerable.

00:31:40.846 --> 00:31:41.787
We would, you know,

00:31:42.327 --> 00:31:44.429
if we had a superhero for years and

00:31:44.469 --> 00:31:45.529
years and years, and suddenly...

00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:48.132
Especially if every other major power

00:31:48.172 --> 00:31:49.712
player has their own.

00:31:51.015 --> 00:31:51.815
Yeah, like the idea,

00:31:51.855 --> 00:31:54.217
and we'll tell this story in future

00:31:54.317 --> 00:31:54.676
issues,

00:31:54.738 --> 00:31:58.279
like over the circumstances surrounding

00:31:58.319 --> 00:31:58.941
his death,

00:31:59.181 --> 00:32:01.343
the Justice League characters that we were

00:32:01.363 --> 00:32:02.384
talking about earlier...

00:32:04.752 --> 00:32:06.433
leave the United States, too.

00:32:06.555 --> 00:32:11.479
In an early draft, I used, it's corny,

00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:12.038
it didn't work,

00:32:12.058 --> 00:32:16.182
but I used the Liberty Society of America,

00:32:16.201 --> 00:32:17.864
and then they became the Liberty Society

00:32:17.943 --> 00:32:18.644
International.

00:32:18.683 --> 00:32:20.346
Of course, that's, you know,

00:32:20.405 --> 00:32:23.067
referencing all those great Giffen,

00:32:23.127 --> 00:32:23.769
DeMatteis,

00:32:24.743 --> 00:32:25.825
Yeah.

00:32:25.884 --> 00:32:26.964
And I wish I could.

00:32:27.184 --> 00:32:28.746
I wish I could have ended up using

00:32:28.786 --> 00:32:30.146
that because it's such a clear.

00:32:30.826 --> 00:32:31.487
That's another thing.

00:32:31.527 --> 00:32:32.248
Like in the real world,

00:32:32.288 --> 00:32:34.068
if you were the Justice League of America

00:32:34.088 --> 00:32:35.729
and then you became the Justice League

00:32:35.789 --> 00:32:36.589
International,

00:32:36.990 --> 00:32:38.510
that would piss a lot of people off.

00:32:38.851 --> 00:32:39.250
Oh, yeah.

00:32:40.031 --> 00:32:40.692
You know what I mean?

00:32:41.251 --> 00:32:41.672
Oh, yeah.

00:32:41.692 --> 00:32:43.633
I mean, we had a West Coast League,

00:32:43.692 --> 00:32:45.054
you know, at one point.

00:32:45.614 --> 00:32:45.713
Well,

00:32:45.733 --> 00:32:47.214
they just I think they just finished the

00:32:47.255 --> 00:32:47.935
run of that one.

00:32:47.996 --> 00:32:49.355
But, you know,

00:32:49.375 --> 00:32:51.537
it was like they only service the West

00:32:51.576 --> 00:32:52.498
Coast.

00:32:52.597 --> 00:32:52.698
Yeah.

00:32:53.262 --> 00:32:55.144
Yeah.

00:32:55.284 --> 00:32:55.565
Yeah.

00:32:55.785 --> 00:32:56.924
So it's just, it's, it's,

00:32:57.026 --> 00:32:59.047
it's about that long absence.

00:32:59.307 --> 00:33:01.367
And then, and we'll, we'll, we'll,

00:33:01.387 --> 00:33:02.969
we'll tell this story in issue three.

00:33:04.609 --> 00:33:07.172
But like Dale Gatner is just,

00:33:07.551 --> 00:33:08.393
he's an every guy.

00:33:08.452 --> 00:33:09.753
He's, he's me.

00:33:09.794 --> 00:33:10.273
And again,

00:33:11.335 --> 00:33:12.935
you could give me all the superpowers in

00:33:12.955 --> 00:33:13.375
the world,

00:33:13.395 --> 00:33:15.356
but I wouldn't be able to do the

00:33:15.396 --> 00:33:15.857
job.

00:33:16.857 --> 00:33:19.259
But we, we see Dell in this book.

00:33:20.401 --> 00:33:22.001
take a superb ass whipping.

00:33:22.642 --> 00:33:23.201
Absolutely.

00:33:23.402 --> 00:33:24.623
I mean, he gets his guy,

00:33:25.462 --> 00:33:27.825
but the boy took himself an ass whipping.

00:33:28.505 --> 00:33:29.285
Yeah.

00:33:29.365 --> 00:33:29.585
Yeah.

00:33:29.605 --> 00:33:29.726
Yeah.

00:33:29.786 --> 00:33:29.965
Yeah.

00:33:30.066 --> 00:33:33.606
It's so, it's so, uh, it's so interesting.

00:33:33.686 --> 00:33:34.847
Cause you're, you're, you're just,

00:33:35.647 --> 00:33:37.429
you're not, you don't see that a lot.

00:33:37.568 --> 00:33:38.230
Yeah.

00:33:38.289 --> 00:33:42.152
I'm going to, so when you see him,

00:33:42.211 --> 00:33:43.632
like kind of like on there,

00:33:43.791 --> 00:33:45.232
they showed the picture of him.

00:33:45.252 --> 00:33:46.834
His faces are all, you know,

00:33:46.993 --> 00:33:48.034
bloody and beat the shit.

00:33:48.054 --> 00:33:48.875
And he's just kind of like,

00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:54.421
Just just just try and it's so it's

00:33:54.540 --> 00:33:55.602
and Jason again,

00:33:55.761 --> 00:33:59.103
like he's so good at capturing, you know,

00:33:59.123 --> 00:34:00.544
you're used to seeing your superheroes as

00:34:00.564 --> 00:34:01.243
a badass.

00:34:01.304 --> 00:34:01.605
Right.

00:34:01.704 --> 00:34:04.526
And and like he's just very good at

00:34:04.586 --> 00:34:06.926
capturing, you know,

00:34:07.067 --> 00:34:09.989
a little a little more vulnerability.

00:34:12.101 --> 00:34:13.882
And I think seeing a little bit more

00:34:13.942 --> 00:34:18.985
fear in your superhero's eyes,

00:34:19.005 --> 00:34:19.925
you're not used to it.

00:34:20.126 --> 00:34:23.367
And again, if it was me...

00:34:23.507 --> 00:34:27.648
It was reminiscent of Superbad,

00:34:28.010 --> 00:34:29.010
if you read that.

00:34:29.469 --> 00:34:30.731
Like the actual comic book,

00:34:30.951 --> 00:34:31.431
The Vigilantes.

00:34:31.451 --> 00:34:31.911
I don't think I... No,

00:34:31.931 --> 00:34:36.353
I don't think I know that one.

00:34:36.434 --> 00:34:37.373
I think, was it Superbad?

00:34:37.793 --> 00:34:38.574
The one with the Vigilantes?

00:34:38.594 --> 00:34:40.755
I think that was it.

00:34:42.512 --> 00:34:42.773
I don't know.

00:34:43.273 --> 00:34:44.594
I want to say it's from Image,

00:34:44.914 --> 00:34:46.175
but they made it into a movie.

00:34:46.195 --> 00:34:47.894
You think it's Kick-Ass?

00:34:48.494 --> 00:34:49.715
Kick-Ass, that's it.

00:34:49.835 --> 00:34:50.315
I'm sorry.

00:34:50.356 --> 00:34:50.876
Yeah, Kick-Ass.

00:34:50.896 --> 00:34:53.617
Superbad has some of the same actors in

00:34:53.677 --> 00:34:53.777
it.

00:34:54.677 --> 00:34:54.978
You're right.

00:34:55.117 --> 00:34:57.199
It's Kick-Ass because it's got Nick Cage

00:34:57.259 --> 00:34:57.418
in it,

00:34:57.458 --> 00:34:59.619
and that's probably my favorite role Nick

00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:00.460
Cage has ever done.

00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:06.481
But very much that element of this dude

00:35:06.501 --> 00:35:08.402
just takes a supreme ass whipping but

00:35:08.442 --> 00:35:09.322
still gets his guy.

00:35:11.686 --> 00:35:15.427
nice yeah so have you read that i

00:35:15.568 --> 00:35:20.269
read that it's actually not bad and in

00:35:20.289 --> 00:35:22.909
the movie did a really good job of

00:35:22.929 --> 00:35:25.451
kind of bringing that to the screen yeah

00:35:25.490 --> 00:35:28.092
i definitely wanted to check out later on

00:35:28.112 --> 00:35:28.472
my list

00:35:33.938 --> 00:35:35.119
So while we're thinking about this,

00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:37.121
or rather while I'm thinking about this,

00:35:37.842 --> 00:35:42.045
how did the Liberty Tree come about

00:35:42.186 --> 00:35:42.826
exactly?

00:35:43.427 --> 00:35:44.788
Because I don't remember it being touched

00:35:44.927 --> 00:35:45.047
on.

00:35:47.889 --> 00:35:49.711
Excuse me, I'm coughing.

00:35:49.771 --> 00:35:50.713
How did that come about?

00:35:51.393 --> 00:35:52.853
You know, I just,

00:35:54.155 --> 00:35:55.856
I'm telling a story about symbols.

00:35:57.978 --> 00:36:00.561
And, you know, I was thinking about,

00:36:01.001 --> 00:36:01.822
I was thinking about

00:36:03.864 --> 00:36:05.065
thinking about the powers.

00:36:08.128 --> 00:36:10.530
And, you know, it's like that,

00:36:11.690 --> 00:36:13.773
that stuff didn't come as naturally to me.

00:36:14.413 --> 00:36:16.434
And I know, and I know that it's,

00:36:17.715 --> 00:36:20.077
you know what it was once upon a

00:36:20.137 --> 00:36:23.119
time, like, and this was like, this,

00:36:23.139 --> 00:36:24.422
this was quite a while ago when I

00:36:24.442 --> 00:36:25.282
was working on this.

00:36:26.123 --> 00:36:28.364
And the story was different and going in

00:36:28.385 --> 00:36:29.405
a different place.

00:36:30.438 --> 00:36:30.978
I was like,

00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:33.239
this is going to be like a spiritual

00:36:33.300 --> 00:36:35.280
successor to maximum carnage.

00:36:35.581 --> 00:36:36.081
You read that?

00:36:36.202 --> 00:36:36.702
Oh yeah.

00:36:36.862 --> 00:36:37.121
Yeah.

00:36:37.822 --> 00:36:39.463
And like that book, like, it's so funny.

00:36:39.483 --> 00:36:40.304
Cause like when I,

00:36:40.483 --> 00:36:42.605
I read it when it was out and

00:36:42.724 --> 00:36:43.445
I just loved it.

00:36:43.585 --> 00:36:45.425
And then I've got the trade on this

00:36:45.706 --> 00:36:46.487
shelf back here.

00:36:47.186 --> 00:36:48.487
I've read it three or four times and

00:36:48.507 --> 00:36:49.168
it's actually,

00:36:49.228 --> 00:36:50.228
I got to go pick up the trade

00:36:50.248 --> 00:36:51.009
because that's,

00:36:51.108 --> 00:36:52.550
I haven't read that in so long.

00:36:52.570 --> 00:36:54.130
I have to go hit up one of

00:36:54.150 --> 00:36:55.690
the secondhand bookstores around here and

00:36:55.751 --> 00:36:56.411
find that one.

00:36:58.103 --> 00:36:59.005
It was good.

00:36:59.824 --> 00:37:00.505
It's so good.

00:37:00.706 --> 00:37:03.088
And, like, for, like, you know, like,

00:37:03.268 --> 00:37:05.130
eighth grade me, it was awesome.

00:37:05.952 --> 00:37:08.173
But then reading it again as an adult,

00:37:08.673 --> 00:37:09.815
it's actually this, like,

00:37:09.835 --> 00:37:11.737
there's this great theme to it.

00:37:11.777 --> 00:37:12.498
And it's about...

00:37:13.438 --> 00:37:15.780
you know this previous traditional

00:37:16.460 --> 00:37:20.423
generation of don't kill superheroes

00:37:20.463 --> 00:37:25.047
versus a more violent venom and yeah and

00:37:25.248 --> 00:37:27.909
morbius there's actually and uh it's it's

00:37:27.949 --> 00:37:30.411
one of my favorite moments in comics when

00:37:30.851 --> 00:37:33.432
uh when spider-man's he's got his ass

00:37:33.452 --> 00:37:35.394
kicked and he's down and and the uh

00:37:35.434 --> 00:37:38.277
the last page during the splash page at

00:37:38.297 --> 00:37:39.338
the end of the issue is

00:37:40.713 --> 00:37:43.335
Captain America, Steve Rogers there to,

00:37:43.554 --> 00:37:44.675
you know, join,

00:37:44.715 --> 00:37:46.115
join his side and give him a hand

00:37:46.195 --> 00:37:46.356
up.

00:37:46.856 --> 00:37:48.956
And that's like, that's,

00:37:50.896 --> 00:37:52.777
that's the feeling I want this book to

00:37:52.797 --> 00:37:53.038
have.

00:37:53.077 --> 00:37:56.539
Cause we are at each other's throats about

00:37:57.518 --> 00:38:00.599
what is patriotism, who owns the flag,

00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:03.501
but there is still,

00:38:03.621 --> 00:38:05.902
there is still something that we can all

00:38:05.922 --> 00:38:06.362
understand.

00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.501
rally around and unite in because like

00:38:09.541 --> 00:38:13.063
that moment like that.

00:38:13.143 --> 00:38:14.804
Steve Rogers helping Peter Parker do his

00:38:14.844 --> 00:38:15.144
feet.

00:38:16.126 --> 00:38:17.706
I know exactly which one you're talking

00:38:17.726 --> 00:38:18.126
about too.

00:38:18.186 --> 00:38:19.427
I think that was one of the ones

00:38:19.608 --> 00:38:21.668
I read probably around the same time you

00:38:21.728 --> 00:38:22.389
read it as well.

00:38:22.987 --> 00:38:24.027
Yeah.

00:38:24.068 --> 00:38:24.807
So, yeah.

00:38:24.827 --> 00:38:26.329
So like in terms of the powers, like,

00:38:26.369 --> 00:38:28.170
it's like, I need, I need, I need,

00:38:28.630 --> 00:38:32.271
I need a power, um, for legal reasons.

00:38:32.331 --> 00:38:34.373
He can't have a shield of course.

00:38:34.452 --> 00:38:35.213
Yeah.

00:38:35.534 --> 00:38:39.056
Um, and I thought like a symbiote,

00:38:39.076 --> 00:38:41.436
a symbiont and like, but how do you,

00:38:41.496 --> 00:38:42.938
you know, how do you make it different?

00:38:43.057 --> 00:38:43.677
Yeah.

00:38:43.818 --> 00:38:45.518
And so the idea of making it,

00:38:45.878 --> 00:38:47.440
making it plant like, um,

00:38:50.827 --> 00:38:53.728
Which I think is something Jason does such

00:38:53.748 --> 00:38:55.168
a great job of.

00:38:55.228 --> 00:38:56.750
Sometimes it just looks like a big old

00:38:56.849 --> 00:38:57.550
tree trunk,

00:38:58.190 --> 00:38:59.751
but he's also got a sense of...

00:39:02.891 --> 00:39:04.393
I don't have the best visual sense.

00:39:04.612 --> 00:39:06.074
I just have to, I have to be,

00:39:06.114 --> 00:39:06.574
when I'm writing,

00:39:06.635 --> 00:39:08.056
I have to see something so that I

00:39:08.096 --> 00:39:10.556
know I'm not telling him to draw something

00:39:10.577 --> 00:39:11.538
that can't be drawn.

00:39:11.737 --> 00:39:12.038
Yeah.

00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:13.838
But, you know,

00:39:13.878 --> 00:39:16.260
to actually work with such a great artist

00:39:16.300 --> 00:39:18.942
who's got that sense and to see where

00:39:18.983 --> 00:39:19.742
he goes with it.

00:39:19.782 --> 00:39:22.224
Like this idea was just so vague in

00:39:22.284 --> 00:39:22.764
my head,

00:39:22.804 --> 00:39:24.646
but the way he brings it to life,

00:39:24.686 --> 00:39:25.586
just like I can, you can,

00:39:25.847 --> 00:39:26.987
you can see it.

00:39:27.788 --> 00:39:31.371
transforming and moving um so yeah that

00:39:31.411 --> 00:39:36.074
was honestly when you kind of see like

00:39:36.114 --> 00:39:37.596
the tree kind of envelop him a little

00:39:37.635 --> 00:39:40.338
bit and then you realize that as he's

00:39:40.438 --> 00:39:44.442
throwing punches it's like the tree is

00:39:44.742 --> 00:39:47.644
extending and hardening his fist in those

00:39:47.664 --> 00:39:52.068
punches yeah and i was like damn that's

00:39:52.389 --> 00:39:54.349
that's kind of cool i like that because

00:39:54.391 --> 00:39:55.692
it's so different

00:39:56.380 --> 00:39:58.260
yeah and what another thing that i think

00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:02.061
jason does a killer job of um you

00:40:02.081 --> 00:40:03.422
know one of the things we talked about

00:40:03.882 --> 00:40:06.103
uh to draw the distinction between dale

00:40:06.443 --> 00:40:09.184
the new guy and george washington west the

00:40:09.244 --> 00:40:13.324
original uh is like he's dale is not

00:40:13.364 --> 00:40:16.346
good at this so he's gonna know so

00:40:16.365 --> 00:40:17.945
he's he's all the help he can get

00:40:18.385 --> 00:40:19.706
he needs all the help he can get

00:40:19.786 --> 00:40:22.527
so he's just got big sloppy clumsy

00:40:22.568 --> 00:40:23.407
constructs

00:40:24.409 --> 00:40:25.168
And there's a panel.

00:40:25.849 --> 00:40:27.769
A lot of this is on the Kickstarter

00:40:27.809 --> 00:40:28.030
page,

00:40:28.050 --> 00:40:29.469
so if anybody listening wants to check it

00:40:29.570 --> 00:40:29.730
out.

00:40:31.150 --> 00:40:32.731
This is in our preview art.

00:40:34.231 --> 00:40:35.130
The original guy,

00:40:35.190 --> 00:40:38.791
he can jump around the room and whip

00:40:38.831 --> 00:40:41.592
it around like he's been doing his whole

00:40:41.612 --> 00:40:42.351
life, which he has.

00:40:42.411 --> 00:40:44.313
But Dale is just, you know,

00:40:44.393 --> 00:40:46.893
I've got a big hammer.

00:40:47.193 --> 00:40:49.253
It's like the difference between Silver

00:40:49.333 --> 00:40:51.514
Age Green Lantern stuff and Kyle Rayner.

00:40:52.266 --> 00:40:53.447
Green Lantern stuff, right?

00:40:53.668 --> 00:40:54.148
Yeah.

00:40:54.208 --> 00:40:56.110
Yeah.

00:40:56.170 --> 00:40:56.351
Yeah.

00:40:56.431 --> 00:41:00.014
And then, like, at a certain point,

00:41:01.076 --> 00:41:01.315
you know,

00:41:01.335 --> 00:41:03.759
I'm digging around for symbols and trying

00:41:03.778 --> 00:41:03.878
to...

00:41:06.771 --> 00:41:07.012
you know,

00:41:07.032 --> 00:41:09.193
put this guy's whole visual identity

00:41:09.233 --> 00:41:09.773
together.

00:41:10.494 --> 00:41:11.175
And, you know,

00:41:11.195 --> 00:41:12.836
I'm just on the internet looking for stuff

00:41:12.856 --> 00:41:13.436
and I'm looking at,

00:41:13.597 --> 00:41:17.460
and I'm looking at quotes and the Liberty

00:41:17.501 --> 00:41:20.143
tree thing fits so perfectly.

00:41:20.702 --> 00:41:21.204
It does.

00:41:21.224 --> 00:41:21.983
Yeah.

00:41:22.043 --> 00:41:23.505
Because of that quote,

00:41:23.545 --> 00:41:24.485
it's all over the book.

00:41:25.106 --> 00:41:25.806
We actually sent it,

00:41:25.847 --> 00:41:26.907
we're sending the book to the printer and

00:41:26.927 --> 00:41:28.449
we put this quote on the, on the,

00:41:28.530 --> 00:41:30.630
on the back of the book, Thomas Jefferson,

00:41:30.650 --> 00:41:32.632
the tree of Liberty must be refreshed from

00:41:32.693 --> 00:41:33.373
time to time.

00:41:34.126 --> 00:41:35.907
with the blood of patriots and tyrants,

00:41:36.568 --> 00:41:36.887
right?

00:41:38.327 --> 00:41:39.429
Badass quote.

00:41:40.309 --> 00:41:42.329
And it works so well for us here

00:41:42.349 --> 00:41:44.489
because who decides who's the patriot and

00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:47.731
who's the tyrant, right?

00:41:47.811 --> 00:41:47.911
Yep.

00:41:47.931 --> 00:41:49.291
And that's what the book is about.

00:41:49.331 --> 00:41:52.431
So it's just in the same way that

00:41:52.592 --> 00:41:54.012
like we were talking about a little while

00:41:54.032 --> 00:41:55.793
ago with the cavalryman named

00:41:55.833 --> 00:41:56.373
Thoroughbred.

00:41:56.393 --> 00:41:57.474
Yeah.

00:41:57.849 --> 00:41:59.650
And then you had the one guy who

00:41:59.690 --> 00:42:00.711
was the robot.

00:42:01.032 --> 00:42:03.014
You got a... Well, he was a...

00:42:03.634 --> 00:42:04.195
It's a suit.

00:42:04.215 --> 00:42:07.856
It's like an Iron Man.

00:42:07.876 --> 00:42:08.617
Don't tell Disney.

00:42:09.918 --> 00:42:10.938
But it's very different, though.

00:42:10.978 --> 00:42:12.840
It was a very different set of everything.

00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:15.121
Very different look to it.

00:42:15.782 --> 00:42:18.385
And then George Washington West, his wife,

00:42:18.965 --> 00:42:25.610
is very much like the Homelander stuff.

00:42:25.710 --> 00:42:27.371
The female Homelander, basically.

00:42:28.327 --> 00:42:31.530
Yeah, she's a little... Not the Nazi one,

00:42:31.570 --> 00:42:32.231
the other one.

00:42:32.251 --> 00:42:34.333
A little Wonder Woman-ish.

00:42:34.353 --> 00:42:35.534
I didn't want to say Wonder Woman,

00:42:35.974 --> 00:42:39.297
you know, but... But no,

00:42:39.396 --> 00:42:40.458
it's just a really,

00:42:40.777 --> 00:42:43.981
really cool team that was assembled there

00:42:44.041 --> 00:42:44.721
together.

00:42:45.541 --> 00:42:47.824
And the powers are really cool,

00:42:47.943 --> 00:42:49.864
very unique to the individual.

00:42:50.786 --> 00:42:52.568
And honestly,

00:42:52.608 --> 00:42:54.829
if you went back and did a prequel

00:42:54.849 --> 00:42:56.811
comic with just the Golden Age-looking

00:42:56.851 --> 00:42:57.371
characters...

00:42:58.527 --> 00:42:59.447
Would be dope as hell.

00:42:59.907 --> 00:43:00.849
I would be all over that in a

00:43:00.869 --> 00:43:02.550
heartbeat as well.

00:43:02.690 --> 00:43:05.333
If the book takes off, I have plans.

00:43:06.012 --> 00:43:08.054
I definitely have plans for that Iron Man

00:43:08.094 --> 00:43:08.414
guy.

00:43:08.434 --> 00:43:14.179
Dude, he was... The Indian...

00:43:15.438 --> 00:43:15.898
Coyote.

00:43:16.597 --> 00:43:19.898
Coyote, yes.

00:43:19.918 --> 00:43:20.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:20.980 --> 00:43:22.780
There's a whole back story there that I'll

00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:23.920
get to one of these days.

00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:26.001
It was just so cool because it was

00:43:26.041 --> 00:43:28.202
like you had the modern story going and

00:43:28.222 --> 00:43:29.623
then you kind of get this really cool

00:43:29.643 --> 00:43:31.342
flashback and you see all this whole new,

00:43:32.724 --> 00:43:34.664
the old school characters and you're like,

00:43:34.844 --> 00:43:37.585
man, these guys are cool.

00:43:37.905 --> 00:43:40.306
And then we're stuck with Dale Gatner.

00:43:41.054 --> 00:43:41.856
Yeah.

00:43:41.876 --> 00:43:42.916
In the modern day.

00:43:43.257 --> 00:43:44.157
Good old Dale.

00:43:44.797 --> 00:43:46.320
And that poor guy.

00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:49.262
Again, just imagine if it was you.

00:43:49.402 --> 00:43:50.123
You know what I mean?

00:43:50.143 --> 00:43:52.545
Dude, yeah.

00:43:54.186 --> 00:43:55.507
I don't know how far we got in

00:43:55.527 --> 00:43:57.208
discussing it, but how did the tree go?

00:43:58.010 --> 00:43:58.710
Dale's my guy.

00:43:59.931 --> 00:44:01.432
We're going to tell that story.

00:44:01.693 --> 00:44:04.175
Okay.

00:44:04.454 --> 00:44:05.096
We won't touch it.

00:44:05.155 --> 00:44:06.416
I don't want you to give nothing away

00:44:06.456 --> 00:44:06.956
too soon.

00:44:07.376 --> 00:44:07.978
But again,

00:44:09.918 --> 00:44:11.739
it's good that you wonder because

00:44:12.139 --> 00:44:16.903
everybody in this world is trying to

00:44:16.943 --> 00:44:19.686
figure that out because we don't have, oh,

00:44:19.706 --> 00:44:20.065
don't worry,

00:44:20.085 --> 00:44:21.746
we'll just get another superhero because

00:44:22.067 --> 00:44:23.168
it's intellectual property.

00:44:23.288 --> 00:44:25.028
It's like, no,

00:44:25.409 --> 00:44:27.550
there's a handful of these people.

00:44:27.590 --> 00:44:28.612
This symbiote

00:44:29.505 --> 00:44:32.447
is a major national security asset.

00:44:33.309 --> 00:44:33.648
So yeah,

00:44:33.708 --> 00:44:35.590
where's the tree actually located in the

00:44:35.610 --> 00:44:35.971
book?

00:44:36.692 --> 00:44:37.733
Like within the world?

00:44:38.494 --> 00:44:38.753
It's...

00:44:41.231 --> 00:44:43.873
It's in the custody of the United States

00:44:43.913 --> 00:44:44.393
government,

00:44:44.594 --> 00:44:47.514
and there's going to be conflict over that

00:44:48.135 --> 00:44:51.237
because the character we discussed

00:44:51.277 --> 00:44:55.780
earlier, his wife, Marcia Ultrix,

00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:58.942
she thinks quite reasonably,

00:44:59.202 --> 00:44:59.782
I would argue,

00:44:59.842 --> 00:45:02.583
that as George West's

00:45:03.563 --> 00:45:07.969
you know air next and that it should

00:45:07.989 --> 00:45:10.331
go to her but the united states government

00:45:10.713 --> 00:45:13.335
took possession of it and you know like

00:45:13.755 --> 00:45:14.817
you don't want that it's one of those

00:45:14.836 --> 00:45:18.641
things where this power is like absolutely

00:45:18.681 --> 00:45:20.224
bonkers to be in the hands of just

00:45:20.344 --> 00:45:23.447
a everyday joe yeah

00:45:24.545 --> 00:45:25.887
And Dale comes off as like,

00:45:26.586 --> 00:45:27.027
I don't know,

00:45:27.688 --> 00:45:29.289
I'm very off-stretching this,

00:45:29.771 --> 00:45:31.652
but Dale was the drunk security guard who

00:45:31.733 --> 00:45:33.494
accidentally stumbled in and the tree was

00:45:33.514 --> 00:45:35.536
like, Dale's my guy.

00:45:35.556 --> 00:45:38.019
He just was like, hey, come here, Dale.

00:45:40.242 --> 00:45:42.224
You're not super far off.

00:45:43.074 --> 00:45:44.755
I'm just throwing it out, dude, because,

00:45:45.016 --> 00:45:45.597
like, in my head,

00:45:45.617 --> 00:45:46.757
that's all I can see is, like,

00:45:47.478 --> 00:45:49.199
Del was the night security guard.

00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:52.021
He was still a little bit nippy from

00:45:52.061 --> 00:45:53.001
the night before.

00:45:53.061 --> 00:45:56.923
He comes in, and the tree's like, Del,

00:45:57.905 --> 00:45:59.025
that's my guy right there.

00:46:00.246 --> 00:46:01.748
And, like, why?

00:46:02.288 --> 00:46:04.009
You know, it doesn't... Yeah,

00:46:04.048 --> 00:46:05.309
nothing special about Del.

00:46:05.750 --> 00:46:06.490
He's got, you know,

00:46:06.530 --> 00:46:08.192
two divorces and three kids.

00:46:09.273 --> 00:46:10.052
That's right.

00:46:10.072 --> 00:46:10.454
That's right.

00:46:10.534 --> 00:46:11.534
And he works hard, but...

00:46:13.362 --> 00:46:15.943
yeah man like like and imagine you know

00:46:15.983 --> 00:46:18.163
imagine if you're working for the

00:46:18.202 --> 00:46:19.443
government and like you know they're

00:46:19.523 --> 00:46:21.184
they're they're we'll we'll see some of

00:46:21.204 --> 00:46:23.784
this coming up you know um because they

00:46:23.824 --> 00:46:25.925
want i was like you know they they

00:46:25.945 --> 00:46:27.485
want it they want to put it on

00:46:27.605 --> 00:46:29.545
a you know on the best of the

00:46:29.565 --> 00:46:32.286
best like you know the the elite military

00:46:32.326 --> 00:46:37.146
guys but yeah the tree is like math

00:46:37.226 --> 00:46:38.706
nothing no nothing works i had a you

00:46:38.726 --> 00:46:40.746
know i had a i had a scene

00:46:40.766 --> 00:46:42.668
that i haven't actually been able

00:46:46.173 --> 00:46:50.440
to work in into the story anywhere is

00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:52.123
actually one of the first scenes that came

00:46:52.143 --> 00:46:53.784
to me, just the notion of,

00:46:55.088 --> 00:46:58.472
you know sitting down with um the guy

00:46:58.492 --> 00:47:00.295
we talked about earlier gene gene fuller

00:47:00.315 --> 00:47:03.318
he's a narrator and he's he's um he's

00:47:03.338 --> 00:47:05.740
like a rick jones figure kind of grown

00:47:05.820 --> 00:47:08.164
up and grown old like like wanted to

00:47:08.184 --> 00:47:10.706
be a teen sidekick in the yeah yeah

00:47:11.387 --> 00:47:13.128
um and now he's now he's like he's

00:47:13.148 --> 00:47:14.110
like an older guy and

00:47:15.204 --> 00:47:19.668
sort of the self-appointed guardian of the

00:47:19.708 --> 00:47:21.369
general Washington legacy, right?

00:47:22.329 --> 00:47:24.572
And like just sitting down in a room

00:47:24.711 --> 00:47:27.052
with Dale and another character who will

00:47:27.333 --> 00:47:30.856
pop up a little later and just trying

00:47:31.016 --> 00:47:33.297
anything in the world to like,

00:47:34.978 --> 00:47:36.179
what could explain this?

00:47:36.260 --> 00:47:38.961
Like George liked pancakes.

00:47:39.001 --> 00:47:40.003
Do you like pancakes?

00:47:40.682 --> 00:47:43.623
no do you like james taylor i like

00:47:43.664 --> 00:47:45.364
james taylor i like james maybe it maybe

00:47:45.405 --> 00:47:46.485
it's james so you know what i mean

00:47:46.945 --> 00:47:49.686
yeah it's it's a mystery and trying to

00:47:49.927 --> 00:47:54.628
figure out what makes the symbiont choose

00:47:55.489 --> 00:47:57.449
is something that the characters will be

00:47:58.090 --> 00:48:00.190
just is that something you will touch on

00:48:00.271 --> 00:48:02.552
later in another issue on how like kind

00:48:02.572 --> 00:48:05.733
of like this is thinking like how he

00:48:05.773 --> 00:48:07.273
wants to do this or what his

00:48:08.393 --> 00:48:10.494
his thoughts are into why he picks who

00:48:10.534 --> 00:48:12.637
he picks to be his host.

00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:15.059
I mean, I know exactly where it's going.

00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:15.159
Yeah.

00:48:15.179 --> 00:48:15.260
Okay.

00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:15.820
Okay.

00:48:16.681 --> 00:48:18.943
Cool.

00:48:19.003 --> 00:48:19.103
No,

00:48:19.143 --> 00:48:21.686
it's one of those where I love the

00:48:21.706 --> 00:48:23.068
way you did it because you kind of

00:48:23.148 --> 00:48:25.010
gave us where we're at today.

00:48:25.951 --> 00:48:27.172
But by the time you get to the

00:48:27.253 --> 00:48:28.114
end of it, I'm like,

00:48:28.673 --> 00:48:30.695
I have so many questions.

00:48:32.594 --> 00:48:32.793
Good.

00:48:33.414 --> 00:48:34.634
Well, hopefully enough.

00:48:35.114 --> 00:48:36.434
It means you did your job.

00:48:37.114 --> 00:48:38.614
Hopefully enough to make you want to buy

00:48:38.715 --> 00:48:39.355
issue two.

00:48:40.235 --> 00:48:41.076
Oh, no, absolutely.

00:48:41.496 --> 00:48:43.516
Absolutely.

00:48:43.556 --> 00:48:47.137
So let's talk about this powerhouse team

00:48:47.617 --> 00:48:51.077
that you assembled to bring this book to

00:48:51.137 --> 00:48:51.538
life.

00:48:52.277 --> 00:48:57.759
So we have Jason Muir on art.

00:48:59.380 --> 00:49:01.340
Arthur Hesley on colors.

00:49:02.827 --> 00:49:07.708
mika meyers on letters sean manning did

00:49:07.889 --> 00:49:11.050
your edit in and then kelly williams is

00:49:11.150 --> 00:49:14.510
also doing a alternate cover for this book

00:49:15.371 --> 00:49:18.311
and mika meyers letters for quite a few

00:49:18.351 --> 00:49:19.873
companies because that name is very

00:49:19.972 --> 00:49:23.934
familiar yeah yeah he's uh he he's in

00:49:24.353 --> 00:49:28.175
indie comics powerhouse he does uh yeah

00:49:28.375 --> 00:49:28.974
zinscope

00:49:30.474 --> 00:49:30.894
Yeah.

00:49:31.235 --> 00:49:34.077
I, I, I, I, I found him.

00:49:34.637 --> 00:49:38.719
Um, he was, uh,

00:49:38.759 --> 00:49:40.079
looking for work on Twitter.

00:49:40.860 --> 00:49:41.981
Yeah.

00:49:42.001 --> 00:49:44.242
I, I click, uh,

00:49:44.342 --> 00:49:46.282
I think it's portfolio day hashtag.

00:49:46.302 --> 00:49:50.364
So, and, um, yeah.

00:49:50.425 --> 00:49:51.244
And then Sean,

00:49:51.766 --> 00:49:53.365
I suggested him when we were looking for

00:49:53.385 --> 00:49:54.487
a letter, um,

00:49:55.885 --> 00:49:58.666
Sean Manning, our editor,

00:49:58.806 --> 00:50:00.086
I brought up like, oh,

00:50:00.146 --> 00:50:01.268
I saw this guy in line and Sean

00:50:01.307 --> 00:50:02.047
went, oh, he's great.

00:50:03.088 --> 00:50:04.789
And we, yeah.

00:50:04.809 --> 00:50:06.530
When I seen his name, I was like,

00:50:07.590 --> 00:50:09.411
I'm pretty sure I know who that is.

00:50:09.452 --> 00:50:12.833
I'm pretty sure I probably have.

00:50:12.873 --> 00:50:14.914
Dirty or forty books lettered by him.

00:50:15.655 --> 00:50:15.996
Yeah.

00:50:16.195 --> 00:50:16.416
Yeah.

00:50:16.436 --> 00:50:17.177
I wouldn't be surprised.

00:50:17.496 --> 00:50:17.896
He works.

00:50:17.996 --> 00:50:18.577
He works a lot.

00:50:19.438 --> 00:50:21.418
And, you know, I'm like I said,

00:50:22.278 --> 00:50:23.000
I came from theater.

00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:23.320
Right.

00:50:23.619 --> 00:50:25.340
And, um,

00:50:26.586 --> 00:50:29.088
God bless all of these collaborators for

00:50:29.128 --> 00:50:32.990
bearing with me because this is the visual

00:50:33.030 --> 00:50:34.552
storytelling comics.

00:50:34.632 --> 00:50:38.815
Like it, it hasn't come naturally to me.

00:50:39.594 --> 00:50:40.956
Um, and like, if you look at,

00:50:40.976 --> 00:50:41.876
if you look at the first couple of

00:50:41.896 --> 00:50:42.677
books I've,

00:50:42.916 --> 00:50:45.039
I've made on it would absolutely prove it.

00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:45.958
Yeah.

00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:47.840
I have those written down here to talk

00:50:47.860 --> 00:50:48.760
about those a little bit too.

00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:48.900
Yeah.

00:50:49.340 --> 00:50:49.661
Yeah.

00:50:49.722 --> 00:50:49.842
Yeah.

00:50:50.021 --> 00:50:50.322
Yeah.

00:50:50.661 --> 00:50:52.784
Um, so I, I'm, I'm,

00:50:55.514 --> 00:50:56.835
I'm just very lucky to be working with

00:50:56.876 --> 00:51:01.438
people who can help me out in that

00:51:01.538 --> 00:51:02.757
aspect.

00:51:03.318 --> 00:51:04.559
Well, you know what they say, right?

00:51:05.579 --> 00:51:07.561
Surround yourself with people smarter than

00:51:07.601 --> 00:51:09.842
you.

00:51:09.922 --> 00:51:10.842
And that's most people.

00:51:11.061 --> 00:51:13.083
A hundred percent.

00:51:14.063 --> 00:51:16.764
All the best leaders will surround

00:51:16.784 --> 00:51:18.405
themselves with people smarter than

00:51:18.425 --> 00:51:19.025
themselves.

00:51:19.655 --> 00:51:20.036
Yeah.

00:51:20.135 --> 00:51:21.016
I mean, like there's, there's,

00:51:21.036 --> 00:51:22.538
there's just like, I, I,

00:51:22.637 --> 00:51:24.818
I love trying this new thing and learning

00:51:25.260 --> 00:51:25.699
new stuff.

00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:26.340
It's my favorite.

00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:27.800
Uh, but there's a lot, I don't know.

00:51:28.601 --> 00:51:31.443
Um, you know, like, uh,

00:51:31.463 --> 00:51:33.905
just one example when I'm, when I'm, uh,

00:51:35.427 --> 00:51:38.489
establishing like some of the antagonists.

00:51:38.548 --> 00:51:38.849
Right.

00:51:40.070 --> 00:51:44.231
And I want, I wanted to, um,

00:51:44.472 --> 00:51:46.753
establish that some of the younger guys

00:51:46.833 --> 00:51:49.596
were, uh,

00:51:52.027 --> 00:51:53.009
like doing a more,

00:51:54.110 --> 00:51:57.932
like they're confederacy themed bad guys,

00:51:57.972 --> 00:51:58.233
right?

00:51:58.432 --> 00:51:59.853
Yeah, they're domestic terrorists.

00:52:00.215 --> 00:52:01.094
They're domestic terrorists.

00:52:01.896 --> 00:52:05.559
And I wanted to establish that like these

00:52:05.619 --> 00:52:06.840
new younger guys,

00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:09.802
that they were initially like corny,

00:52:11.322 --> 00:52:12.423
Like, you ever read, like,

00:52:12.523 --> 00:52:13.583
old Marvel comics, like,

00:52:13.603 --> 00:52:14.985
stuff like The Sons of the Serpent?

00:52:15.664 --> 00:52:16.385
It's wonderful,

00:52:16.925 --> 00:52:20.228
admirable stuff with a little social

00:52:20.268 --> 00:52:21.228
justice cause in it,

00:52:21.268 --> 00:52:22.268
but it's also kind of corny.

00:52:22.289 --> 00:52:23.969
Like, oh, we're racist,

00:52:24.048 --> 00:52:25.250
and we dress up like snakes.

00:52:25.849 --> 00:52:28.751
Absolute Batman, yearly,

00:52:28.831 --> 00:52:34.815
just literally burned an entire, you know,

00:52:35.574 --> 00:52:37.456
house full of these people to the ground.

00:52:38.003 --> 00:52:39.625
Yeah, it was very, very controversial.

00:52:39.644 --> 00:52:41.226
I mean,

00:52:41.525 --> 00:52:43.246
and the absolute Batman is an absolute

00:52:43.306 --> 00:52:44.748
freaking unit to begin with.

00:52:45.768 --> 00:52:46.449
Absolutely.

00:52:47.628 --> 00:52:48.989
That's Daniel Warren Johnson, right?

00:52:49.650 --> 00:52:50.210
Oh, yeah.

00:52:50.231 --> 00:52:51.992
DWJ, dude.

00:52:52.092 --> 00:52:52.871
Or Scott Snyder.

00:52:52.911 --> 00:52:53.432
Scott Snyder.

00:52:54.112 --> 00:52:54.373
Right.

00:52:54.393 --> 00:52:55.333
Scott Snyder.

00:52:55.353 --> 00:52:57.215
But I think he did the art.

00:52:57.494 --> 00:52:57.755
Yeah.

00:52:58.315 --> 00:52:59.056
That guy's incredible.

00:52:59.896 --> 00:53:02.077
DWJ is phenomenal.

00:53:02.356 --> 00:53:04.177
Like that Wolverine cover he did a couple

00:53:04.197 --> 00:53:04.898
of months back.

00:53:07.614 --> 00:53:08.315
I think I missed it.

00:53:09.396 --> 00:53:10.695
Dude, you missed a classic.

00:53:10.976 --> 00:53:11.376
That book,

00:53:12.597 --> 00:53:14.878
I think it was like on the shelf

00:53:14.898 --> 00:53:17.259
for nine ninety nine.

00:53:17.298 --> 00:53:18.320
Like you weren't paying less.

00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:19.960
It might have been more.

00:53:19.981 --> 00:53:20.960
Nice.

00:53:21.041 --> 00:53:22.202
Might have been nineteen ninety nine.

00:53:22.242 --> 00:53:24.922
But the book is still like fifty bucks

00:53:25.302 --> 00:53:25.704
right now.

00:53:26.583 --> 00:53:30.126
And that's like today.

00:53:30.146 --> 00:53:31.306
He's worth the first month.

00:53:31.365 --> 00:53:32.547
It was worth it was like one hundred

00:53:32.586 --> 00:53:33.407
bucks at one point.

00:53:33.427 --> 00:53:33.887
Yeah.

00:53:34.891 --> 00:53:37.634
That's raw, ungraded, as it sits,

00:53:37.733 --> 00:53:38.434
bag and board.

00:53:39.655 --> 00:53:40.175
Crazy.

00:53:40.496 --> 00:53:42.018
I mean, he's worth every dollar.

00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:48.222
I think the first thing I read of

00:53:48.262 --> 00:53:50.204
his was that Beta Ray Bill book.

00:53:51.585 --> 00:53:52.525
Yeah.

00:53:52.565 --> 00:53:53.847
I think that's most people's first.

00:53:54.708 --> 00:53:55.588
And they don't know it's him.

00:53:55.789 --> 00:53:56.849
Because I think that was one of the

00:53:56.889 --> 00:53:58.471
very first books that kind of like

00:53:59.271 --> 00:54:00.512
introduced us to him.

00:54:01.385 --> 00:54:04.527
Yeah, because I'm a huge Marvel nerd,

00:54:04.648 --> 00:54:07.289
and second, third-rate characters,

00:54:07.389 --> 00:54:09.231
third-tier, let's say.

00:54:09.271 --> 00:54:10.373
Definitely a third-tier.

00:54:11.934 --> 00:54:12.454
Like, I...

00:54:13.186 --> 00:54:14.347
But he's so beloved.

00:54:14.927 --> 00:54:16.369
Beta Ray Bill is just like one of

00:54:16.389 --> 00:54:17.851
these beloved characters.

00:54:18.431 --> 00:54:22.034
Like if you see a giant camel or

00:54:22.175 --> 00:54:25.318
moose wearing Thor's armor and you're

00:54:25.338 --> 00:54:26.719
like, oh, that's Beta Ray Bill.

00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:27.500
Come on, guy.

00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:28.340
Get with it.

00:54:29.581 --> 00:54:31.885
That's how you know you love superhero

00:54:31.925 --> 00:54:32.425
comics.

00:54:32.545 --> 00:54:34.246
Like you look at that guy and it's

00:54:34.266 --> 00:54:36.349
like, yes, I want lots more of this.

00:54:37.250 --> 00:54:39.472
I'm the same way with Howard the Duck.

00:54:39.612 --> 00:54:41.432
I absolutely love Howard the Duck.

00:54:42.134 --> 00:54:44.396
And it's been one of my life goals.

00:54:44.516 --> 00:54:47.998
Anytime I come across something related to

00:54:48.057 --> 00:54:48.978
Howard the Duck, I'm like,

00:54:49.059 --> 00:54:51.601
I can't not go home with that.

00:54:52.141 --> 00:54:53.342
I should have worn my Howard the Duck

00:54:53.382 --> 00:54:54.103
t-shirt for this.

00:54:55.184 --> 00:54:56.224
I had one for a while.

00:54:57.125 --> 00:54:58.706
It got washed one too many times.

00:54:59.927 --> 00:55:00.128
Plus,

00:55:00.208 --> 00:55:03.309
I put on a little weight since I

00:55:03.369 --> 00:55:04.110
retired, so...

00:55:05.574 --> 00:55:07.356
It didn't quite fit anymore anyway.

00:55:07.896 --> 00:55:08.356
Yeah.

00:55:08.817 --> 00:55:10.498
No, I read that.

00:55:11.199 --> 00:55:12.019
It's here someplace.

00:55:12.380 --> 00:55:15.342
I read that omnibus during the pandemic.

00:55:15.802 --> 00:55:19.585
Steve Kerber, man.

00:55:20.545 --> 00:55:21.527
Insane talent.

00:55:23.889 --> 00:55:25.150
He's such a fun character too,

00:55:25.190 --> 00:55:28.092
but let's focus on General Washington.

00:55:28.112 --> 00:55:29.032
I'm sorry, we...

00:55:30.626 --> 00:55:33.768
let's talk about the team man yeah okay

00:55:33.789 --> 00:55:39.673
so jason um again uh i i found

00:55:39.713 --> 00:55:42.436
by the horns and like i'm not i'm

00:55:42.456 --> 00:55:44.077
not kidding like rush right out it is

00:55:45.057 --> 00:55:47.619
maybe the prettiest comic book i've ever

00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:51.784
i've ever read um you know you nailed

00:55:51.824 --> 00:55:53.465
it and he he's so good at both

00:55:53.485 --> 00:55:56.086
styles the modern the golden he he had

00:55:56.788 --> 00:55:59.028
he done a very good job

00:55:59.815 --> 00:56:05.735
of combining those yeah the styles and

00:56:05.775 --> 00:56:08.217
again like it it's like i needed such

00:56:08.317 --> 00:56:11.137
specific stuff and he knocked it out of

00:56:11.157 --> 00:56:14.057
the park and put up with me which

00:56:14.077 --> 00:56:20.519
isn't nothing um no i did um uh

00:56:20.619 --> 00:56:22.300
on on my last one shot which was

00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:23.840
quite a while ago um i hired him

00:56:23.860 --> 00:56:25.940
to do an alternate cover um

00:56:26.706 --> 00:56:29.909
And it was just, you know, first draft,

00:56:30.028 --> 00:56:30.429
got it.

00:56:30.849 --> 00:56:31.509
Like, it's great.

00:56:31.869 --> 00:56:34.050
When the time came to put the team

00:56:34.070 --> 00:56:34.331
together,

00:56:34.371 --> 00:56:35.391
he was at the top of the list

00:56:35.471 --> 00:56:36.672
and he was available.

00:56:36.731 --> 00:56:41.014
And I'm the luckiest boy in the world.

00:56:41.034 --> 00:56:42.295
We could all be so lucky.

00:56:42.635 --> 00:56:44.436
So do you know how long you're planning

00:56:44.476 --> 00:56:46.315
on to run this book?

00:56:46.356 --> 00:56:47.976
Are you planning on like three issues,

00:56:47.996 --> 00:56:48.818
a five?

00:56:49.958 --> 00:56:50.958
Or is it one of those where you'll

00:56:50.978 --> 00:56:52.659
let the audience let you know when they're

00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:53.559
kind of tired of it?

00:56:54.802 --> 00:57:00.266
So when I was putting the team together,

00:57:00.547 --> 00:57:04.650
one of the people I talked to gave

00:57:04.710 --> 00:57:08.253
me just a life-changing piece of advice.

00:57:08.992 --> 00:57:09.554
Because I do.

00:57:10.233 --> 00:57:14.496
When you talk about why did the symbiont

00:57:14.597 --> 00:57:15.737
choose who it chose,

00:57:17.139 --> 00:57:18.561
that's a moment at the very end of

00:57:18.581 --> 00:57:19.722
the story that I want to tell.

00:57:20.878 --> 00:57:20.978
Um,

00:57:21.159 --> 00:57:22.519
and I was talking to a dude and

00:57:22.539 --> 00:57:23.519
he told me like,

00:57:23.539 --> 00:57:24.621
what you want to do is like,

00:57:24.641 --> 00:57:25.862
you've got your star Wars.

00:57:26.362 --> 00:57:27.824
You want to carve out your,

00:57:28.023 --> 00:57:28.684
a new hope.

00:57:29.764 --> 00:57:29.985
Yeah.

00:57:30.365 --> 00:57:34.509
Something with a, um, beginning,

00:57:34.568 --> 00:57:37.110
a middle and an end that you can

00:57:37.170 --> 00:57:37.731
start with.

00:57:37.751 --> 00:57:38.472
Cause I'm, you know,

00:57:38.512 --> 00:57:39.432
nobody knows who I am.

00:57:39.853 --> 00:57:42.695
Uh, and, and people, I, I buy,

00:57:43.056 --> 00:57:45.677
I buy my comics based on, you know,

00:57:45.697 --> 00:57:47.699
knowing the art team and, and yeah.

00:57:48.199 --> 00:57:49.181
And, and so like, it's,

00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:50.081
it's an uphill battle.

00:57:51.231 --> 00:57:54.695
So for putting the story together and

00:57:54.755 --> 00:57:55.996
eventually hopefully looking for a

00:57:56.036 --> 00:57:56.817
publisher for it,

00:57:57.818 --> 00:58:00.621
we've got an opening four-issue arc.

00:58:01.943 --> 00:58:02.184
Again,

00:58:02.224 --> 00:58:03.605
like when this when this guy told me,

00:58:04.166 --> 00:58:05.686
do your do your A New Hope.

00:58:07.208 --> 00:58:09.949
It was like the sky parted because I'm

00:58:09.989 --> 00:58:11.670
staring down this like this is going to

00:58:11.690 --> 00:58:13.110
take me twelve, fifteen issues.

00:58:13.150 --> 00:58:14.351
How am I going to be able to,

00:58:15.432 --> 00:58:15.693
you know,

00:58:15.733 --> 00:58:17.414
afford that and put it all together?

00:58:17.514 --> 00:58:20.695
So four issues for this first opening arc.

00:58:21.936 --> 00:58:23.257
No, that's that's a good,

00:58:23.637 --> 00:58:24.478
good round number.

00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:25.199
Yeah.

00:58:25.773 --> 00:58:27.855
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:28.034 --> 00:58:29.614
And if we're lucky enough to find an

00:58:29.695 --> 00:58:32.976
audience and people want more,

00:58:34.416 --> 00:58:35.396
I'm happy to provide it.

00:58:35.536 --> 00:58:35.956
We'll see.

00:58:36.036 --> 00:58:37.177
We'll see what we'll see.

00:58:38.717 --> 00:58:40.737
No, you got a great team with you.

00:58:40.858 --> 00:58:46.119
And I think you've found that little piece

00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:46.739
of knowledge,

00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:48.501
that little nugget that you needed to kind

00:58:48.541 --> 00:58:49.181
of go, all right.

00:58:50.307 --> 00:58:52.068
know how to do this now i think

00:58:52.128 --> 00:58:54.449
i have this figured out and like i

00:58:54.489 --> 00:58:57.132
said you have a a really good team

00:58:57.172 --> 00:59:01.054
around you and thankfully they're a team

00:59:01.074 --> 00:59:03.315
that knows how to work together because

00:59:03.355 --> 00:59:05.657
the lettering was amazing the colors

00:59:06.297 --> 00:59:09.878
fantastic the art the story everything

00:59:09.978 --> 00:59:12.920
just works and flows together and i say

00:59:12.940 --> 00:59:14.380
this a hundred times i'll say it a

00:59:14.422 --> 00:59:14.942
hundred more

00:59:16.717 --> 00:59:18.798
It's the most neglected thing about comic

00:59:18.818 --> 00:59:20.300
books, and that's your letter.

00:59:20.860 --> 00:59:24.862
And they will make you or break you.

00:59:25.643 --> 00:59:28.005
And you've got a great letter on top

00:59:28.065 --> 00:59:28.385
of it.

00:59:29.126 --> 00:59:30.065
Yeah, it's crazy.

00:59:30.085 --> 00:59:30.226
Like,

00:59:30.246 --> 00:59:32.188
that's one of those things that I don't

00:59:32.427 --> 00:59:33.708
understand super well.

00:59:33.728 --> 00:59:36.690
I'm reading and trying to learn a little

00:59:36.731 --> 00:59:36.931
more.

00:59:37.010 --> 00:59:37.831
But, like, you know,

00:59:38.472 --> 00:59:40.273
we've all backed Kickstarters where, like,

00:59:40.632 --> 00:59:42.014
oh, this doesn't look like a comic book.

00:59:42.034 --> 00:59:43.114
And it just really...

00:59:43.893 --> 00:59:46.657
under my experience want to shout out

00:59:46.777 --> 00:59:52.481
Arthur as well came recommended by a

00:59:52.501 --> 00:59:57.547
writer that I know and like again by

00:59:57.586 --> 00:59:59.909
the horns which I keep bringing up get

00:59:59.949 --> 01:00:04.193
it it's so it's beautiful but it's it's

01:00:04.532 --> 01:00:06.215
brightly colored like yeah

01:00:07.009 --> 01:00:09.550
super super bright and like that's just

01:00:09.670 --> 01:00:12.291
not quite right for this book we want

01:00:12.331 --> 01:00:13.971
it to look a little bit like a

01:00:14.010 --> 01:00:16.311
little bit down to earth a little more

01:00:16.371 --> 01:00:18.652
down to earth and you know like that

01:00:18.672 --> 01:00:21.373
was the instruction that we talked about

01:00:21.413 --> 01:00:24.873
with Arthur right up front and again just

01:00:24.914 --> 01:00:27.914
sort of instinctively it looks like the

01:00:27.974 --> 01:00:31.376
real world and that's perfect for this

01:00:31.436 --> 01:00:33.697
book and what I think you're going for

01:00:33.737 --> 01:00:34.777
with this book and it's

01:00:37.485 --> 01:00:38.447
I absolutely loved it.

01:00:38.586 --> 01:00:39.246
It fit.

01:00:40.088 --> 01:00:41.327
Everything fit together.

01:00:43.509 --> 01:00:45.090
And like we talked earlier,

01:00:47.050 --> 01:00:50.271
this book could have easily done this and

01:00:50.291 --> 01:00:51.333
divided people.

01:00:52.273 --> 01:00:53.594
It didn't do that at all.

01:00:53.833 --> 01:00:56.775
It just towed the line very well in

01:00:56.815 --> 01:00:57.414
the story.

01:00:59.615 --> 01:01:00.916
And that's one of those things where I

01:01:00.936 --> 01:01:02.677
can greatly appreciate because...

01:01:04.405 --> 01:01:07.527
It's hard to do because you have a

01:01:07.586 --> 01:01:09.748
certain belief system,

01:01:10.547 --> 01:01:12.289
and oftentimes when you're reading a comic

01:01:12.309 --> 01:01:14.469
book, that bleeds through.

01:01:14.530 --> 01:01:16.670
And you can tell kind of where the

01:01:16.831 --> 01:01:19.592
author or the writer of the story is

01:01:19.612 --> 01:01:20.132
kind of like,

01:01:21.253 --> 01:01:22.552
I know what way he goes,

01:01:23.014 --> 01:01:24.414
and you did not do that.

01:01:24.554 --> 01:01:27.715
And I can't imagine you just sitting there

01:01:27.755 --> 01:01:29.777
going –

01:01:29.445 --> 01:01:29.804
damn.

01:01:29.864 --> 01:01:31.706
And then your editor going, Hey dude,

01:01:31.746 --> 01:01:33.367
did you really mean it to say like

01:01:33.407 --> 01:01:33.706
that?

01:01:34.427 --> 01:01:34.748
You know?

01:01:34.768 --> 01:01:35.467
So shout out to the,

01:01:35.989 --> 01:01:39.030
to the editors of the world because those

01:01:39.070 --> 01:01:40.391
people can make and break you too.

01:01:41.552 --> 01:01:41.891
Yeah.

01:01:41.911 --> 01:01:42.052
Yeah.

01:01:42.132 --> 01:01:43.813
And Sean is, Sean is fantastic.

01:01:43.932 --> 01:01:44.413
Keeps a,

01:01:44.472 --> 01:01:47.135
keeps good eye on me and on everybody

01:01:47.195 --> 01:01:47.894
helped us out.

01:01:47.934 --> 01:01:50.077
Sean helped us find Kelly,

01:01:51.918 --> 01:01:53.478
Kelly Williams for the alternate cover,

01:01:54.418 --> 01:01:56.059
who is wonderful and just has that,

01:01:56.139 --> 01:01:56.300
you know,

01:01:56.340 --> 01:01:57.581
he does a lot of horror stuff and,

01:01:58.936 --> 01:01:59.755
That's my heart right there.

01:01:59.775 --> 01:02:01.297
I love a good horror comic book.

01:02:01.737 --> 01:02:03.597
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:03.717 --> 01:02:04.458
And like, you know,

01:02:04.557 --> 01:02:05.498
in that alternate cover,

01:02:05.518 --> 01:02:06.798
which is selling really well for us,

01:02:07.179 --> 01:02:08.199
check it out on Kickstarter.

01:02:10.360 --> 01:02:10.639
You know,

01:02:10.679 --> 01:02:14.400
it's got it's a little bloodier than the

01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:15.521
main book, a little dirtier.

01:02:16.442 --> 01:02:19.443
And I think that's how that's my favorite

01:02:19.463 --> 01:02:20.123
type right there.

01:02:20.682 --> 01:02:22.483
yeah that's why i'm such a huge fan

01:02:22.543 --> 01:02:25.224
of these types of books of kickstarters

01:02:25.264 --> 01:02:28.027
and the indies man yeah just you want

01:02:28.067 --> 01:02:30.228
it dirty you want it greedy you want

01:02:30.248 --> 01:02:32.668
it to say four or five six times

01:02:33.789 --> 01:02:35.909
go for it because you can do it

01:02:35.929 --> 01:02:38.451
and get away with it yeah that's right

01:02:39.132 --> 01:02:42.672
it it's uh no accountable to no one

01:02:42.713 --> 01:02:43.273
but myself

01:02:44.425 --> 01:02:49.068
exactly and I had read just saying fuck

01:02:49.088 --> 01:02:50.668
that many times reminded me of a comic

01:02:50.688 --> 01:02:52.329
book I had read not that long ago

01:02:53.110 --> 01:02:54.791
it's like the main character of the comic

01:02:54.811 --> 01:02:57.172
book like every time something would

01:02:57.231 --> 01:03:03.574
happen you could see him just go it

01:03:03.594 --> 01:03:05.315
was just the way the art was done

01:03:05.356 --> 01:03:07.356
and just the way the lettering was done

01:03:07.396 --> 01:03:09.458
of that book it was just it made

01:03:09.518 --> 01:03:11.898
it funny in a more serious book where

01:03:11.958 --> 01:03:12.840
he was just kind of like

01:03:14.007 --> 01:03:16.048
every two to three page on like a

01:03:16.108 --> 01:03:21.753
random panel he's just like you're like

01:03:21.833 --> 01:03:25.534
yes i i know that feeling oh we

01:03:25.574 --> 01:03:28.016
all do i have to pause and do

01:03:28.056 --> 01:03:30.257
that a few times a day so you

01:03:30.297 --> 01:03:32.699
described this kind of as a tom clancy

01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:36.802
meets astro city like tactical realism

01:03:36.842 --> 01:03:38.403
meets some moral complexity

01:03:39.588 --> 01:03:41.829
did you keep the story grounded outside of

01:03:42.128 --> 01:03:44.389
we know you have a really strong editor

01:03:45.550 --> 01:03:47.931
did you while still you still managed to

01:03:47.951 --> 01:03:51.932
hit this cosmic superhero scale it like

01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:56.260
How did you keep all that together?

01:03:59.342 --> 01:03:59.601
Well,

01:04:00.222 --> 01:04:03.463
I try to lean on that theater background.

01:04:06.065 --> 01:04:06.965
I used to be an actor,

01:04:07.005 --> 01:04:07.784
not a very good one.

01:04:09.306 --> 01:04:13.648
But the job is to get inside everybody's

01:04:13.688 --> 01:04:16.809
head and just put yourself in the

01:04:16.849 --> 01:04:21.170
situation and look at it from everybody's

01:04:21.210 --> 01:04:21.851
point of view.

01:04:23.043 --> 01:04:23.744
And really, you know,

01:04:24.123 --> 01:04:26.085
you just have to really spend time.

01:04:26.184 --> 01:04:28.284
Cause again, the first,

01:04:29.865 --> 01:04:31.585
the first temptation, the easy,

01:04:31.806 --> 01:04:34.306
the easy road is like, ah, you're just,

01:04:34.387 --> 01:04:35.407
you're just a piece of shit.

01:04:35.427 --> 01:04:36.286
So I'm going to make you a piece

01:04:36.306 --> 01:04:36.706
of shit.

01:04:37.266 --> 01:04:38.407
Yeah.

01:04:38.447 --> 01:04:39.188
But you gotta,

01:04:39.387 --> 01:04:41.807
you gotta spend some time singing like,

01:04:41.847 --> 01:04:43.128
no, like what, what actually,

01:04:43.188 --> 01:04:45.949
what actually is it like to be this

01:04:46.009 --> 01:04:46.849
person right now?

01:04:47.849 --> 01:04:49.829
So like all, all, you know, that's a,

01:04:52.137 --> 01:04:53.818
that's part of my writing process every

01:04:53.858 --> 01:04:56.121
time just you know you do it from

01:04:57.322 --> 01:04:59.144
one character's point of view and write

01:04:59.204 --> 01:05:01.407
out what they do and then you switch

01:05:01.847 --> 01:05:06.731
hats which is tricky sometimes yeah but

01:05:06.751 --> 01:05:08.833
then and you see like okay well that's

01:05:08.853 --> 01:05:10.956
what this guy says well what's it like

01:05:11.076 --> 01:05:12.438
to hear that what's it like to be

01:05:12.478 --> 01:05:13.559
on the receiving end of that

01:05:15.827 --> 01:05:17.469
I always, you know, I start with myself.

01:05:18.190 --> 01:05:21.554
Like, how does that, which is an old,

01:05:22.155 --> 01:05:23.155
old, old acting trick.

01:05:23.942 --> 01:05:26.202
You know, the place,

01:05:26.744 --> 01:05:29.125
and I had a great, great acting teacher,

01:05:29.244 --> 01:05:31.846
and she would always,

01:05:31.947 --> 01:05:33.327
if you were struggling with a moment,

01:05:33.427 --> 01:05:37.329
she would always ground you by saying,

01:05:37.949 --> 01:05:40.530
how does this make you, not the character,

01:05:40.650 --> 01:05:42.012
you, John Lazar, the actor,

01:05:42.052 --> 01:05:44.393
how does this make you feel right now?

01:05:44.614 --> 01:05:45.114
Yeah.

01:05:45.193 --> 01:05:46.815
And you just answer that question for

01:05:46.835 --> 01:05:47.255
yourself.

01:05:47.835 --> 01:05:48.615
Great advice.

01:05:49.135 --> 01:05:50.896
Oh, so like, it's so, it's so,

01:05:51.197 --> 01:05:51.838
it's so simple.

01:05:52.677 --> 01:05:53.679
Yeah.

01:05:53.938 --> 01:05:54.820
And sometimes it's just,

01:05:55.601 --> 01:05:56.922
sometimes it's just about keeping it

01:05:56.961 --> 01:05:57.282
simple.

01:05:57.762 --> 01:05:58.483
Yeah, definitely.

01:05:58.842 --> 01:06:00.184
So that's what I try to do.

01:06:00.244 --> 01:06:00.965
Hopefully it works.

01:06:01.865 --> 01:06:04.248
So you're running this campaign through

01:06:04.327 --> 01:06:05.809
resistance comments.

01:06:06.349 --> 01:06:09.050
Is that like your personal brand or is

01:06:09.090 --> 01:06:12.034
that like somebody you just have with you?

01:06:12.153 --> 01:06:14.175
Like, or is that your brand?

01:06:14.755 --> 01:06:14.956
Yeah.

01:06:15.036 --> 01:06:17.858
I mean, it's, it's my brand, the,

01:06:17.878 --> 01:06:19.480
that it's a brand.

01:06:19.519 --> 01:06:20.561
Well, I mean, it's,

01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:22.782
actually say the same thing about usd and

01:06:23.101 --> 01:06:26.402
it that's why there's a chairman because i

01:06:26.443 --> 01:06:29.485
can't do this forever and if my name's

01:06:29.525 --> 01:06:31.605
associated with something they're like oh

01:06:31.625 --> 01:06:34.226
that's so-and-so's but if it's the

01:06:34.306 --> 01:06:34.827
chairman

01:06:35.815 --> 01:06:38.358
then the name the chairman can be passed

01:06:38.699 --> 01:06:40.681
to the next generation of the United

01:06:40.721 --> 01:06:41.681
States Department of Nerds.

01:06:42.141 --> 01:06:45.224
So that's why it's a brand, right?

01:06:45.405 --> 01:06:48.487
So you can pass the resistance comments to

01:06:48.527 --> 01:06:51.190
somebody else if you ever decided that's

01:06:51.210 --> 01:06:53.313
something that you wanted to do.

01:06:53.432 --> 01:06:54.333
And if anybody wants it.

01:06:58.177 --> 01:06:59.077
Talking about teams,

01:06:59.117 --> 01:07:00.958
I just want to put in another plug.

01:07:01.340 --> 01:07:01.900
No, please.

01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:06.922
The dude who created the Resistance Comics

01:07:07.063 --> 01:07:10.125
logo and has created...

01:07:10.164 --> 01:07:13.786
Facebook and Instagram both white it out.

01:07:13.847 --> 01:07:14.626
Yeah, I saw that.

01:07:14.726 --> 01:07:15.027
I don't know.

01:07:15.108 --> 01:07:16.949
It's a weird... I'm sorry.

01:07:18.188 --> 01:07:19.789
I can see why they tried to do

01:07:19.809 --> 01:07:20.911
that, but at the same time,

01:07:20.931 --> 01:07:23.733
I'm kind of like, I see it,

01:07:23.753 --> 01:07:25.273
but I don't see what they're trying to

01:07:25.333 --> 01:07:25.494
do.

01:07:26.561 --> 01:07:26.740
You know,

01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:28.802
because it doesn't really annotate

01:07:28.902 --> 01:07:29.442
anything.

01:07:29.882 --> 01:07:33.043
It's just like a random logo, you know?

01:07:33.824 --> 01:07:35.224
I don't understand why anybody does

01:07:35.284 --> 01:07:35.923
anything, brother.

01:07:37.344 --> 01:07:37.565
Yeah.

01:07:37.985 --> 01:07:40.286
But the guy who did that logo for

01:07:40.306 --> 01:07:43.387
us and the guy who did the cover

01:07:43.427 --> 01:07:46.007
logo for this book and the other books

01:07:46.168 --> 01:07:46.688
on the Kickstarter,

01:07:46.708 --> 01:07:48.228
his name is Winston Gambro.

01:07:49.168 --> 01:07:50.648
He makes comics of his own, too,

01:07:50.708 --> 01:07:54.771
but really top-notch logo designer.

01:07:55.369 --> 01:07:58.172
yeah if you anybody at home listening

01:07:58.853 --> 01:08:01.414
needs one plug away dude gambro very very

01:08:01.775 --> 01:08:04.536
very very cool guy and very uh good

01:08:04.577 --> 01:08:07.918
at his job i like it i will

01:08:07.958 --> 01:08:09.400
never get mad at somebody plugging

01:08:09.420 --> 01:08:11.081
somebody who helped get them to where they

01:08:11.121 --> 01:08:14.483
are today uh so we we started going

01:08:14.503 --> 01:08:17.846
down this road not your first rodeo you've

01:08:17.867 --> 01:08:20.427
done marguerite versus the occupation

01:08:21.404 --> 01:08:24.988
and you've also done odd your odd yarns

01:08:25.628 --> 01:08:27.850
yeah so how did you kind of take

01:08:27.912 --> 01:08:30.394
those two projects and took what you

01:08:30.413 --> 01:08:31.935
learned from those two and kind of applied

01:08:31.975 --> 01:08:34.578
it to you know general washington and the

01:08:34.618 --> 01:08:39.063
liberty tree and honestly i've seen what

01:08:39.082 --> 01:08:41.645
was it i'm sorry marguerite versus the

01:08:41.704 --> 01:08:43.947
occupation looks so fun like just such a

01:08:44.006 --> 01:08:45.368
cool looking comic book by the way

01:08:46.192 --> 01:08:48.796
Yeah, and it was.

01:08:49.077 --> 01:08:49.757
Casey Gavito,

01:08:49.958 --> 01:08:51.841
another great artist who was wonderful in

01:08:51.862 --> 01:08:52.262
that book.

01:08:54.988 --> 01:08:56.029
So the truth of the matter,

01:08:56.050 --> 01:08:57.252
like I was talking about a little while

01:08:57.271 --> 01:08:59.255
ago about how visual storytelling doesn't

01:08:59.274 --> 01:08:59.395
work.

01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:01.640
Naturally to me.

01:09:01.841 --> 01:09:03.082
The first two comics I made and

01:09:03.101 --> 01:09:05.323
kickstarted are, you know, they're not,

01:09:05.422 --> 01:09:07.444
they're not for sale on this,

01:09:07.704 --> 01:09:09.005
on this Kickstarter because they're not

01:09:09.145 --> 01:09:09.666
that good.

01:09:09.886 --> 01:09:12.207
And coming from theater,

01:09:12.306 --> 01:09:14.048
I'm a words first kind of guy.

01:09:14.988 --> 01:09:16.369
And that's not,

01:09:16.390 --> 01:09:18.912
that's not really what comics are about.

01:09:20.552 --> 01:09:23.534
One of, I used to do,

01:09:24.114 --> 01:09:24.835
when I wanted to,

01:09:25.895 --> 01:09:29.198
try doing this i took classes online at

01:09:29.238 --> 01:09:34.720
comics experience and um and i made a

01:09:34.761 --> 01:09:37.061
couple of books and you know i was

01:09:37.082 --> 01:09:39.783
talking with him and getting some advice

01:09:39.962 --> 01:09:42.444
and he told me like i because i

01:09:42.524 --> 01:09:44.506
i've had this idea general washing in it

01:09:44.645 --> 01:09:47.886
in different forms than for a long time

01:09:49.528 --> 01:09:50.809
and you know he just kind of told

01:09:50.849 --> 01:09:53.069
me point blank that i wasn't quite ready

01:09:53.090 --> 01:09:54.631
because i i didn't um

01:09:55.666 --> 01:09:57.527
I just didn't have my head wrapped around

01:09:57.846 --> 01:09:58.047
the video.

01:09:58.068 --> 01:09:58.887
It's very humbling,

01:09:59.047 --> 01:10:01.048
but sometimes that humbling is what you

01:10:01.088 --> 01:10:03.190
need to kind of take that step back

01:10:03.270 --> 01:10:06.292
and refocus and then go forward.

01:10:07.332 --> 01:10:07.493
I mean,

01:10:07.554 --> 01:10:08.713
it wouldn't have done me any good to

01:10:08.753 --> 01:10:11.235
do this project before I knew enough about

01:10:11.275 --> 01:10:13.077
the medium to do it right.

01:10:13.671 --> 01:10:14.832
And if I invested all that,

01:10:14.993 --> 01:10:16.055
all the time and money in it,

01:10:16.074 --> 01:10:17.856
and it was still,

01:10:18.358 --> 01:10:21.622
it was still a pretty long and daunting

01:10:21.681 --> 01:10:22.301
process.

01:10:22.563 --> 01:10:23.604
Yeah.

01:10:23.963 --> 01:10:28.069
But so Marguerite was just like,

01:10:28.710 --> 01:10:30.072
the goal was to just, just,

01:10:31.333 --> 01:10:32.734
It's like one big action scene.

01:10:33.454 --> 01:10:39.037
The gimmick is towards the end of World

01:10:39.056 --> 01:10:43.139
War II, and there's a young French girl,

01:10:43.179 --> 01:10:43.658
Marguerite,

01:10:44.838 --> 01:10:48.280
and she's coming home to the house she

01:10:48.320 --> 01:10:53.722
abandoned during the occupation because

01:10:53.743 --> 01:10:55.483
she wants to be there when it's liberated

01:10:55.523 --> 01:10:56.963
by the advancing Allied army.

01:10:58.003 --> 01:10:59.345
a house up on the top of the

01:10:59.364 --> 01:11:00.225
hill, right?

01:11:00.805 --> 01:11:01.445
Where she grew up.

01:11:01.565 --> 01:11:04.867
And when she gets there, she sees, uh,

01:11:04.886 --> 01:11:06.087
because it's on top of the hill,

01:11:06.247 --> 01:11:06.568
there are,

01:11:06.828 --> 01:11:08.429
there's a German machine gun nest.

01:11:08.689 --> 01:11:08.969
Yep.

01:11:09.009 --> 01:11:11.310
Still occupied, still occupied.

01:11:11.529 --> 01:11:13.051
And, and it's in her bedroom.

01:11:13.931 --> 01:11:16.033
And so, um,

01:11:16.073 --> 01:11:17.353
she has to do something about that.

01:11:17.372 --> 01:11:18.434
And that's what the comic is about.

01:11:19.474 --> 01:11:20.274
Uh, it looks fun.

01:11:20.335 --> 01:11:21.074
I'm not going to lie.

01:11:21.534 --> 01:11:22.595
I'll send you a copy, man.

01:11:22.855 --> 01:11:24.777
Um, I'm, I'm, I'm real proud of it.

01:11:24.936 --> 01:11:25.777
Real, real proud of it.

01:11:26.698 --> 01:11:26.858
Um,

01:11:29.261 --> 01:11:32.845
Talking about the team, it's funny.

01:11:35.828 --> 01:11:37.069
The colorist I worked with on that,

01:11:37.090 --> 01:11:38.310
her name is Laurel Dundee.

01:11:39.452 --> 01:11:41.373
And you should look her up,

01:11:41.394 --> 01:11:43.916
because she has a website.

01:11:43.996 --> 01:11:48.039
And it's not superhero stuff at all,

01:11:48.100 --> 01:11:51.002
but it's really cool artwork.

01:11:52.987 --> 01:11:54.988
the coloring is not, it's, it's,

01:11:55.069 --> 01:11:57.430
it's not like a superhero book, but yeah.

01:11:57.489 --> 01:11:59.631
So a lot of my favorite artists don't

01:11:59.971 --> 01:12:01.634
touch superheroes at all.

01:12:01.753 --> 01:12:04.015
Yeah.

01:12:04.336 --> 01:12:04.536
Yeah.

01:12:04.876 --> 01:12:06.917
So it is crazy to think about because

01:12:06.957 --> 01:12:07.358
I mean,

01:12:07.877 --> 01:12:09.520
you have people like Luanna Vecchia who

01:12:09.560 --> 01:12:10.439
did lovesick.

01:12:11.180 --> 01:12:13.101
Her art's just absolutely amazing.

01:12:14.443 --> 01:12:17.865
Tula Latte out of the UK, her work,

01:12:17.886 --> 01:12:19.447
she does a lot of work for distilleries.

01:12:19.466 --> 01:12:20.467
She does a lot of, uh,

01:12:21.957 --> 01:12:24.859
um covers for like boom and dynamite and

01:12:24.878 --> 01:12:27.319
that kind of stuff just absolutely

01:12:27.420 --> 01:12:30.501
phenomenal artwork her use of colors and

01:12:30.541 --> 01:12:34.563
like abstract colors just phenomenal stuff

01:12:34.622 --> 01:12:36.063
and that's just the name too i don't

01:12:36.082 --> 01:12:37.404
even want to get too deep into that

01:12:37.564 --> 01:12:39.805
because we'll literally be here all night

01:12:39.845 --> 01:12:43.265
talking about it yeah so much to know

01:12:43.326 --> 01:12:46.527
man it really is it's so deep and

01:12:46.587 --> 01:12:47.568
so rich right now

01:12:48.573 --> 01:12:49.673
Yeah.

01:12:49.713 --> 01:12:51.113
But like, you know, so that was like,

01:12:51.134 --> 01:12:52.475
that was, that was just, that was,

01:12:52.635 --> 01:12:54.095
that book was on a certain level,

01:12:54.136 --> 01:12:56.856
just like me, just like, okay, let's,

01:12:56.896 --> 01:12:58.118
let's, let's learn this lesson.

01:12:58.398 --> 01:12:58.717
Learn.

01:12:58.917 --> 01:12:59.097
Yeah.

01:12:59.118 --> 01:13:01.618
And, you know, I,

01:13:01.719 --> 01:13:03.140
I think it paid off and like, it's,

01:13:03.300 --> 01:13:05.720
it's, it's, it's again, coming, coming,

01:13:05.780 --> 01:13:07.801
coming from this world where we do

01:13:07.921 --> 01:13:10.604
everything with dialogue, like more than,

01:13:10.743 --> 01:13:11.304
more than film.

01:13:11.323 --> 01:13:12.064
Like you watch a movie,

01:13:12.123 --> 01:13:13.784
you listen to a play, right?

01:13:13.845 --> 01:13:15.105
Like dialogue is, is,

01:13:16.417 --> 01:13:18.917
it's going to be my first instinct for

01:13:18.938 --> 01:13:19.658
the rest of my life,

01:13:19.698 --> 01:13:20.818
whether I want it to be or not.

01:13:21.137 --> 01:13:22.537
Yeah.

01:13:22.578 --> 01:13:23.518
So to, to,

01:13:23.838 --> 01:13:25.038
to tell the story was like, no,

01:13:25.078 --> 01:13:26.498
the climax is an image,

01:13:27.618 --> 01:13:29.720
not a line of dialogue, but like to,

01:13:29.739 --> 01:13:29.920
to,

01:13:29.960 --> 01:13:31.460
to learn to tell a story that way.

01:13:31.500 --> 01:13:32.680
Like that's what.

01:13:32.699 --> 01:13:34.541
It's the image in the story advances.

01:13:34.900 --> 01:13:36.240
The words advanced the image.

01:13:36.860 --> 01:13:37.301
Yeah.

01:13:37.400 --> 01:13:37.541
Yeah.

01:13:37.600 --> 01:13:37.940
It's, it's,

01:13:38.041 --> 01:13:39.622
it's not my exact opposite of what you're

01:13:39.641 --> 01:13:39.841
used to.

01:13:39.862 --> 01:13:39.962
Yeah.

01:13:39.981 --> 01:13:40.061
Yeah.

01:13:40.082 --> 01:13:40.162
Yeah.

01:13:40.181 --> 01:13:40.322
Yeah.

01:13:40.341 --> 01:13:44.802
Cause I like to do things the easy

01:13:44.842 --> 01:13:45.082
way.

01:13:48.318 --> 01:13:49.698
But the book's always easy to hit the

01:13:49.759 --> 01:13:50.239
easy button.

01:13:50.819 --> 01:13:52.502
Yeah, yeah.

01:13:52.521 --> 01:13:53.682
But the book turned out really well.

01:13:54.644 --> 01:13:55.104
Like I said,

01:13:55.145 --> 01:13:56.426
I seen it on the Kickstarter and I

01:13:56.445 --> 01:13:57.827
was like, ooh, what's this one?

01:13:58.347 --> 01:14:01.770
Yeah, it's just a nice, sweet...

01:14:02.917 --> 01:14:05.520
little i called it an action fable mostly

01:14:05.541 --> 01:14:08.682
because that sounds cool uh no it really

01:14:08.764 --> 01:14:11.286
is actually i like that yeah yeah yeah

01:14:11.326 --> 01:14:12.827
somebody somebody asked me about that in

01:14:12.886 --> 01:14:14.389
an interview like why did you call it

01:14:14.769 --> 01:14:17.851
an action fable and i'm like uh because

01:14:17.872 --> 01:14:22.917
it sounds sounding cool doesn't it though

01:14:22.936 --> 01:14:23.056
um

01:14:24.337 --> 01:14:26.259
Plus I always wanted to tell like World

01:14:26.279 --> 01:14:27.059
War II stories.

01:14:27.238 --> 01:14:28.139
I love that stuff.

01:14:28.158 --> 01:14:28.719
John Wayne.

01:14:28.759 --> 01:14:30.139
You know what would be really cool?

01:14:30.158 --> 01:14:32.399
It's just a book about that kind of

01:14:32.439 --> 01:14:32.800
stuff.

01:14:32.939 --> 01:14:34.300
Like those little action fables,

01:14:34.340 --> 01:14:34.921
so to speak,

01:14:34.961 --> 01:14:37.201
about that timeframe and just shoved

01:14:37.240 --> 01:14:39.702
together where it's like five, six,

01:14:39.742 --> 01:14:40.761
seven different stories.

01:14:40.801 --> 01:14:42.922
It's just like two or three page stories.

01:14:43.563 --> 01:14:46.662
And it's just like little, little, little,

01:14:46.682 --> 01:14:47.604
little stories like that,

01:14:47.623 --> 01:14:48.804
where you have this girl's like,

01:14:49.676 --> 01:14:50.475
They're in my home.

01:14:51.055 --> 01:14:51.936
Oh, no, no, no, no.

01:14:52.556 --> 01:14:53.516
Legal fits this.

01:14:53.596 --> 01:14:53.676
Yeah.

01:14:53.697 --> 01:14:56.978
And you see this young teenage girl,

01:14:57.257 --> 01:14:59.738
you know, going up against the, you know,

01:14:59.778 --> 01:15:01.078
Nazi occupation of her home.

01:15:02.139 --> 01:15:02.599
Yeah.

01:15:03.059 --> 01:15:03.658
Yeah.

01:15:03.719 --> 01:15:04.599
Somebody out there.

01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:06.720
We need that in our lives.

01:15:07.619 --> 01:15:08.079
Absolutely.

01:15:08.619 --> 01:15:10.501
I'll make more as soon as I have

01:15:10.541 --> 01:15:11.001
the time.

01:15:11.945 --> 01:15:13.886
That would be really dope.

01:15:13.966 --> 01:15:14.867
It's a beautiful comic.

01:15:14.966 --> 01:15:17.766
It's available as an add-on and a rewards

01:15:17.827 --> 01:15:19.207
tier on this Kickstarter.

01:15:20.387 --> 01:15:21.207
Highly recommend you check it out.

01:15:21.228 --> 01:15:22.608
I'm super, super proud of that one.

01:15:23.648 --> 01:15:25.007
I'm glad you brought that up because

01:15:25.028 --> 01:15:26.288
that's where we're at in the interview,

01:15:26.328 --> 01:15:26.948
my friend.

01:15:28.588 --> 01:15:30.069
So let's talk about the Kickstarter.

01:15:30.548 --> 01:15:33.270
We have the book, have the digital book.

01:15:33.710 --> 01:15:35.489
You have the alternate cover.

01:15:36.189 --> 01:15:39.310
What else can people expect in the

01:15:39.331 --> 01:15:39.871
Kickstarter?

01:15:41.568 --> 01:15:44.230
um for right now like i'm just focused

01:15:44.412 --> 01:15:46.413
on the books i would love you know

01:15:47.414 --> 01:15:50.618
love to do merch someday um for right

01:15:50.658 --> 01:15:52.341
now i'm just like i'm i'm at the

01:15:52.381 --> 01:15:55.243
stage of building the readership one

01:15:55.283 --> 01:15:57.365
reader at a time yeah get your audience

01:15:57.966 --> 01:16:00.470
yeah so um the most popular tier has

01:16:00.529 --> 01:16:02.011
been kelly's alternate cover

01:16:03.984 --> 01:16:07.188
And then, yeah, you can get Marguerite vs.

01:16:07.228 --> 01:16:07.948
the Occupation,

01:16:07.967 --> 01:16:08.988
which we just talked about,

01:16:09.208 --> 01:16:13.412
and the other one-shot called Eye Yarns.

01:16:14.613 --> 01:16:16.015
That would look really unique, too.

01:16:16.494 --> 01:16:18.777
But it would look more of a fun

01:16:18.957 --> 01:16:20.458
story, but I'm not sure.

01:16:20.519 --> 01:16:21.639
Tell us a little bit about that one

01:16:21.659 --> 01:16:23.600
before we drag too far along.

01:16:24.442 --> 01:16:26.363
Yeah, that one was...

01:16:27.384 --> 01:16:28.045
I don't know if you've seen,

01:16:28.085 --> 01:16:29.426
he does a lot of indie stuff.

01:16:29.685 --> 01:16:30.627
He's done Kickstarter.

01:16:30.646 --> 01:16:31.648
You know Lane Lloyd?

01:16:34.881 --> 01:16:36.720
I'm not off the top of my head.

01:16:36.740 --> 01:16:38.502
I have to look him up.

01:16:38.542 --> 01:16:39.662
Lane is neat.

01:16:39.962 --> 01:16:43.283
Has a really great kind of curvy,

01:16:43.344 --> 01:16:46.425
kind of cartoony, dark humor style.

01:16:48.065 --> 01:16:48.805
Like Scotty Young.

01:16:49.867 --> 01:16:50.327
Yeah.

01:16:50.947 --> 01:16:54.248
Kind of.

01:16:54.569 --> 01:17:00.650
I was online and Lane was looking for

01:17:00.711 --> 01:17:02.712
work and

01:17:04.341 --> 01:17:08.163
you know sometimes is another another

01:17:08.184 --> 01:17:11.265
thing to do in theater um do we

01:17:11.286 --> 01:17:13.347
do these little festivals like just just

01:17:13.408 --> 01:17:15.270
make something as quick as you can write

01:17:15.329 --> 01:17:16.810
a play in twenty four hours and we'll

01:17:16.831 --> 01:17:18.952
rehearse it in twenty four hours kind of

01:17:18.971 --> 01:17:21.014
thing so i just thought like what if

01:17:21.213 --> 01:17:23.195
what if uh what if i take this

01:17:23.336 --> 01:17:25.618
this artist up on on their availability

01:17:26.859 --> 01:17:29.381
and make a comic and i thought the

01:17:29.461 --> 01:17:31.943
art style would be good

01:17:33.322 --> 01:17:38.305
uh to pair with silver age super heroics

01:17:38.865 --> 01:17:40.967
yeah so the idea i came up with

01:17:41.007 --> 01:17:42.868
was to do a tribute to the old

01:17:43.128 --> 01:17:46.631
marvel strange tales books those are so

01:17:46.671 --> 01:17:47.032
good

01:17:48.034 --> 01:17:49.216
Do you remember?

01:17:49.256 --> 01:17:51.256
Because you get into comics in the

01:17:51.317 --> 01:17:52.457
nineties, right?

01:17:52.738 --> 01:17:54.800
It's cool and it's awesome and you get

01:17:54.920 --> 01:17:56.341
interested enough to start looking

01:17:56.381 --> 01:17:57.480
backwards a little bit.

01:17:58.542 --> 01:18:01.123
And like Kirby is cool and it's awesome

01:18:01.144 --> 01:18:02.564
and you find all this good stuff and

01:18:02.604 --> 01:18:05.186
you find Strange Tales.

01:18:05.346 --> 01:18:07.908
Strange Tales birthed some really great

01:18:07.967 --> 01:18:10.850
stuff that we're just now really seeing

01:18:10.890 --> 01:18:11.951
today like Groot.

01:18:11.970 --> 01:18:14.912
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:18:14.993 --> 01:18:16.054
Groot was born in that.

01:18:16.623 --> 01:18:17.024
Yeah,

01:18:17.444 --> 01:18:19.966
and you've got the Ditko Doctor Strange

01:18:20.787 --> 01:18:22.387
and the Seranko Nick Fury,

01:18:22.507 --> 01:18:24.469
and it's just mind-blowing.

01:18:24.908 --> 01:18:26.550
Seranko Nick Fury might be my favorite

01:18:26.569 --> 01:18:26.869
stuff.

01:18:26.909 --> 01:18:27.730
So I just thought,

01:18:28.150 --> 01:18:29.231
let's do a tribute to that.

01:18:29.492 --> 01:18:31.172
Strange Tales, Odd Yarns.

01:18:31.872 --> 01:18:32.673
I'm very subtle.

01:18:34.854 --> 01:18:36.055
And just like,

01:18:36.076 --> 01:18:38.077
what if Doctor Strange and Nick Fury

01:18:38.117 --> 01:18:38.938
switched jobs?

01:18:40.176 --> 01:18:46.600
So there's like a hard-nosed World War II

01:18:46.659 --> 01:18:49.081
sergeant who's fighting mystical battles

01:18:49.740 --> 01:18:50.961
and, you know,

01:18:51.561 --> 01:18:56.082
a nerdy surgeon type who becomes an agent

01:18:56.162 --> 01:18:58.243
of... Yeah.

01:18:58.283 --> 01:18:59.465
Fury, so to speak.

01:18:59.864 --> 01:19:01.826
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:19:02.206 --> 01:19:02.765
And then, you know,

01:19:02.786 --> 01:19:04.167
we did the whole gimmick with, like,

01:19:04.207 --> 01:19:06.847
fake ads and stuff, which was fun.

01:19:07.188 --> 01:19:07.268
Yeah.

01:19:08.182 --> 01:19:10.003
The ads are so good in those books,

01:19:10.043 --> 01:19:10.664
though.

01:19:11.244 --> 01:19:13.247
Yeah.

01:19:13.287 --> 01:19:14.847
You can almost just go back and read

01:19:14.887 --> 01:19:17.229
some of those books and just enjoy the

01:19:17.409 --> 01:19:19.771
hell out of the ads because the story

01:19:19.811 --> 01:19:20.792
may be hit or miss,

01:19:20.832 --> 01:19:23.634
but the ads are always going to be

01:19:23.755 --> 01:19:24.774
amazing.

01:19:25.435 --> 01:19:27.457
Yeah.

01:19:28.018 --> 01:19:29.559
I like when you can get a reprint

01:19:29.578 --> 01:19:31.180
that reprints all of it.

01:19:31.640 --> 01:19:31.980
It's rare.

01:19:32.001 --> 01:19:33.902
They do the actual newsstand.

01:19:34.282 --> 01:19:35.182
Yeah.

01:19:35.443 --> 01:19:35.842
It's fun.

01:19:36.931 --> 01:19:38.912
So yeah, that book, it's a little lighter.

01:19:40.412 --> 01:19:40.832
It's fun.

01:19:40.853 --> 01:19:41.894
I think it turned out really well.

01:19:41.913 --> 01:19:45.454
We published it like Marvel Comics

01:19:45.515 --> 01:19:46.836
Presents style.

01:19:47.256 --> 01:19:47.536
Yeah.

01:19:47.975 --> 01:19:48.796
So it's a flip book.

01:19:48.836 --> 01:19:51.077
So we were able to get two covers

01:19:51.117 --> 01:19:52.238
and two alternate covers.

01:19:52.257 --> 01:19:52.818
The other one,

01:19:52.858 --> 01:19:54.177
which you can get on the Kickstarter,

01:19:54.337 --> 01:19:57.158
is a great cover by Alex Cormack,

01:19:57.600 --> 01:20:02.501
who if you like horror, man, the best.

01:20:02.560 --> 01:20:03.502
I'm not a big horror guy,

01:20:03.542 --> 01:20:05.842
but I read Alex's stuff because he's so

01:20:05.903 --> 01:20:06.502
fucking good.

01:20:08.715 --> 01:20:10.395
Um, so yeah, that's the other, those are,

01:20:10.416 --> 01:20:11.796
those are our other rewards.

01:20:12.916 --> 01:20:13.256
I like it.

01:20:13.296 --> 01:20:14.117
You kept it simple.

01:20:14.136 --> 01:20:16.497
You didn't overdo it too, too much,

01:20:16.537 --> 01:20:17.057
too soon.

01:20:17.078 --> 01:20:18.118
You never want to do that.

01:20:18.137 --> 01:20:20.319
You want to really establish an audience.

01:20:21.038 --> 01:20:23.659
And then on the next couple, you can,

01:20:24.260 --> 01:20:26.800
you can throw out the t-shirt or something

01:20:27.060 --> 01:20:28.621
along those lines to go with it.

01:20:30.001 --> 01:20:31.721
So no, you're doing it right.

01:20:32.521 --> 01:20:33.181
One of these days.

01:20:34.542 --> 01:20:35.103
Exactly.

01:20:36.095 --> 01:20:37.355
So for the listeners out there,

01:20:37.395 --> 01:20:41.738
this campaign is live until the twentieth?

01:20:42.637 --> 01:20:44.279
Yeah, twentieth, probably at midnight.

01:20:44.298 --> 01:20:46.640
So we've got about a week.

01:20:46.739 --> 01:20:48.301
And you can find this book simply by

01:20:48.341 --> 01:20:49.301
going to Kickstarter.

01:20:49.621 --> 01:20:51.502
If you just start typing in General

01:20:51.561 --> 01:20:54.104
Washington and the and symbol,

01:20:54.783 --> 01:20:55.564
and it's going to be one of the

01:20:55.604 --> 01:21:00.907
first ones to pop up and go give

01:21:00.947 --> 01:21:02.807
it a look.

01:21:03.268 --> 01:21:04.408
If it's something that sparks your

01:21:04.507 --> 01:21:04.908
interest,

01:21:05.779 --> 01:21:07.560
then back the comic book.

01:21:07.640 --> 01:21:09.481
It's really that simple on Kickstarter.

01:21:11.542 --> 01:21:12.604
It's honestly,

01:21:12.663 --> 01:21:16.286
and if you don't want to back the

01:21:16.345 --> 01:21:17.167
actual book itself,

01:21:17.207 --> 01:21:19.868
you can always donate a couple of dollars.

01:21:19.889 --> 01:21:21.590
There's always that one option on there

01:21:21.609 --> 01:21:24.051
that says, hey, yeah, I like the book,

01:21:24.712 --> 01:21:26.672
but funds aren't there, but hey,

01:21:26.712 --> 01:21:28.954
here's a buck for you to use toward

01:21:30.103 --> 01:21:31.064
whatever it is.

01:21:31.885 --> 01:21:33.206
And this is one of the first books

01:21:33.286 --> 01:21:37.029
I've had on the podcast that is actually

01:21:37.168 --> 01:21:38.289
done already.

01:21:38.930 --> 01:21:42.253
And we're running a Kickstarter so you can

01:21:42.274 --> 01:21:45.157
get the book print off to the printer.

01:21:45.237 --> 01:21:45.556
Yeah.

01:21:46.438 --> 01:21:46.637
Yeah.

01:21:46.717 --> 01:21:49.421
I like to, this is our fifth Kickstarter.

01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:51.421
I'd like to have it done just so,

01:21:52.523 --> 01:21:55.126
you know, so, so there's no, uh,

01:21:56.055 --> 01:21:57.117
you know, no risk, no,

01:21:57.176 --> 01:21:59.822
like it'll be ready in a year and

01:21:59.862 --> 01:22:00.162
a half.

01:22:00.203 --> 01:22:01.564
Maybe it's like, no, we're, we're,

01:22:01.604 --> 01:22:01.985
we're done.

01:22:02.025 --> 01:22:02.466
We're ready.

01:22:02.606 --> 01:22:03.068
And, uh,

01:22:03.087 --> 01:22:05.813
we will have it as soon as, uh,

01:22:06.194 --> 01:22:07.275
you know, as soon,

01:22:07.315 --> 01:22:08.377
as soon as we've got it in ours.

01:22:10.086 --> 01:22:10.786
I like it, man.

01:22:10.805 --> 01:22:12.386
That's how it should be.

01:22:13.087 --> 01:22:15.528
But I of all people,

01:22:15.648 --> 01:22:17.569
I have done so many Kickstarter interviews

01:22:17.609 --> 01:22:19.189
and these are my favorite things to do

01:22:19.590 --> 01:22:22.350
to the point that that's Kickstarters and

01:22:22.490 --> 01:22:25.011
independent creators are my bread and

01:22:25.051 --> 01:22:25.431
butter.

01:22:25.792 --> 01:22:27.712
And that's where I'm putting my love and

01:22:27.752 --> 01:22:28.632
follow behind.

01:22:29.792 --> 01:22:31.333
Are these types of interviews here because

01:22:31.594 --> 01:22:33.354
I enjoy the hell out of spotlighting

01:22:33.395 --> 01:22:36.277
people who you may not know today,

01:22:36.976 --> 01:22:38.677
but I want you to know them tomorrow

01:22:38.698 --> 01:22:41.680
because by damn, they deserve the love.

01:22:42.439 --> 01:22:44.740
So before I let you get out of

01:22:44.780 --> 01:22:45.161
here,

01:22:46.362 --> 01:22:47.502
I'm going to hit you with a tough

01:22:47.622 --> 01:22:47.743
one.

01:22:49.283 --> 01:22:51.305
We're going to zoom out just a little

01:22:51.345 --> 01:22:51.505
bit.

01:22:52.404 --> 01:22:54.766
Superhero stories have always reflected

01:22:55.106 --> 01:22:56.488
who we think we are.

01:22:57.264 --> 01:22:59.984
From Superman's idealism to the Watchmen's

01:23:00.345 --> 01:23:01.105
cynicism,

01:23:01.985 --> 01:23:04.207
now we're somewhere in between with this

01:23:04.407 --> 01:23:04.726
book.

01:23:05.306 --> 01:23:07.068
Where does General Washington and the

01:23:07.167 --> 01:23:12.050
Liberty Tree fit into that evolution?

01:23:12.090 --> 01:23:12.470
You know,

01:23:12.591 --> 01:23:14.131
I think you hit it right on the

01:23:14.190 --> 01:23:14.371
nose.

01:23:14.390 --> 01:23:14.490
Like,

01:23:14.511 --> 01:23:16.332
I'm shooting for something in the middle.

01:23:17.853 --> 01:23:20.573
Just because I'm... And, like...

01:23:23.385 --> 01:23:25.086
the you know superheroes are walking

01:23:25.105 --> 01:23:27.609
symbols right there's like you you see you

01:23:27.649 --> 01:23:29.890
see the character you see the name the

01:23:29.930 --> 01:23:31.811
costume and you put together pretty

01:23:31.851 --> 01:23:33.713
quickly who they are and what they're

01:23:33.734 --> 01:23:39.979
about um i want to get um under

01:23:39.998 --> 01:23:42.600
the hood a little bit and and deal

01:23:42.720 --> 01:23:43.421
with the

01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:49.962
human complexity of like it's great to

01:23:50.002 --> 01:23:52.465
have this symbol that everybody you know

01:23:53.204 --> 01:23:55.065
you see the symbol you make the assumption

01:23:55.787 --> 01:23:58.247
but there's a there's a real person with

01:23:58.287 --> 01:24:01.411
feet of clay underneath it and it's not

01:24:01.551 --> 01:24:04.391
you know it's not as simple as you

01:24:04.412 --> 01:24:05.792
know you fight the bad guy and on

01:24:05.832 --> 01:24:07.434
page twenty two you beat him up and

01:24:07.774 --> 01:24:10.957
you go home with the girl um

01:24:12.235 --> 01:24:13.235
You know, I love.

01:24:13.355 --> 01:24:14.136
Unless you're Dale,

01:24:14.636 --> 01:24:15.837
you go home with a bloody face.

01:24:16.457 --> 01:24:16.938
That's right.

01:24:17.238 --> 01:24:18.479
That's right, Dale.

01:24:18.658 --> 01:24:19.099
Poor Dale.

01:24:19.118 --> 01:24:19.458
He does.

01:24:20.960 --> 01:24:21.840
That's not his last.

01:24:21.899 --> 01:24:23.400
He took that ass whipping like a champ,

01:24:23.421 --> 01:24:23.661
though.

01:24:24.060 --> 01:24:24.621
I'll give him that.

01:24:24.661 --> 01:24:25.301
He got his guy,

01:24:25.320 --> 01:24:26.561
but he took that ass whipping.

01:24:27.261 --> 01:24:27.822
Yeah.

01:24:27.902 --> 01:24:30.703
And, you know, like and like, you know,

01:24:30.724 --> 01:24:31.703
then he's got to decide, like,

01:24:31.743 --> 01:24:34.085
do I do I want to do this

01:24:34.104 --> 01:24:34.425
again?

01:24:35.404 --> 01:24:36.565
There's nobody else to do it.

01:24:37.886 --> 01:24:40.068
I guess I have to, but oh man,

01:24:40.649 --> 01:24:42.789
can we try something else, please?

01:24:42.810 --> 01:24:46.771
Because I think that's what most people

01:24:46.792 --> 01:24:49.353
will be like.

01:24:49.393 --> 01:24:53.855
Yeah, so I'm not, you know, I... Yeah,

01:24:53.935 --> 01:24:55.095
not the...

01:24:56.617 --> 01:24:58.837
Just sort of the place where that broad

01:24:59.078 --> 01:25:02.900
symbolism collides with the complexity of

01:25:02.980 --> 01:25:03.520
reality.

01:25:03.881 --> 01:25:04.721
Complexity is...

01:25:05.930 --> 01:25:08.072
That's where the interesting stuff is at.

01:25:10.212 --> 01:25:10.854
Oh, absolutely.

01:25:11.833 --> 01:25:12.493
Absolutely.

01:25:13.274 --> 01:25:13.734
All right, John,

01:25:13.755 --> 01:25:14.796
before I let you get out of here,

01:25:14.895 --> 01:25:17.417
tell everybody where they can find you.

01:25:20.002 --> 01:25:25.064
Well, I am at John underscore Lazar,

01:25:25.224 --> 01:25:26.104
L-U-Z-A-R,

01:25:26.444 --> 01:25:28.625
on the website formerly known as Twitter.

01:25:29.426 --> 01:25:31.265
You can find me under my name on

01:25:31.326 --> 01:25:31.865
Facebook.

01:25:33.127 --> 01:25:35.268
If you really want a lot more politics,

01:25:35.328 --> 01:25:36.707
you can check out my blog,

01:25:37.167 --> 01:25:38.769
showercapblog.com.

01:25:40.342 --> 01:25:41.963
It's not for everybody.

01:25:42.984 --> 01:25:44.025
It really isn't,

01:25:44.105 --> 01:25:49.889
but the picture is phenomenal.

01:25:50.130 --> 01:25:51.711
The profile picture on the website.

01:25:53.072 --> 01:25:54.292
If you don't go there to read it,

01:25:54.632 --> 01:25:56.154
go there just to see the profile picture

01:25:56.194 --> 01:25:58.914
because it is that amazing.

01:25:58.994 --> 01:25:59.395
I agree.

01:26:00.957 --> 01:26:02.217
All right, John.

01:26:03.128 --> 01:26:03.788
All right, everybody.

01:26:04.408 --> 01:26:05.890
That's all the time we have for tonight.

01:26:05.949 --> 01:26:07.510
John, you've been amazing.

01:26:08.671 --> 01:26:09.930
What's coming up next for me on the

01:26:09.990 --> 01:26:10.451
fifteenth?

01:26:10.490 --> 01:26:12.372
I'll be back here with Giuseppe.

01:26:12.692 --> 01:26:15.592
He is the artist who did Shock Headed

01:26:15.632 --> 01:26:17.853
Peter volume one and volume two.

01:26:17.912 --> 01:26:19.913
And I can almost guarantee you he's going

01:26:19.934 --> 01:26:21.033
to do volume three.

01:26:21.054 --> 01:26:24.175
He'll be joining us right here on the

01:26:24.215 --> 01:26:24.854
fifteenth.

01:26:26.155 --> 01:26:26.576
Fresh fresh.

01:26:27.952 --> 01:26:29.833
as a daisy in Italy because he will

01:26:29.873 --> 01:26:31.194
be up all day and I will just

01:26:31.274 --> 01:26:32.176
have been waking up.

01:26:32.796 --> 01:26:34.077
So you're going to spend that one at

01:26:34.157 --> 01:26:34.917
ten a.m.

01:26:35.399 --> 01:26:36.699
Let me check again.

01:26:38.020 --> 01:26:39.042
Yep, we're going ten a.m.

01:26:39.162 --> 01:26:40.582
Eastern Time, which is four p.m.

01:26:40.643 --> 01:26:41.224
in Italy.

01:26:41.283 --> 01:26:42.685
So he will probably be waking up from

01:26:42.744 --> 01:26:43.645
his fiesta.

01:26:44.867 --> 01:26:46.047
Or siesta, I should say.

01:26:46.068 --> 01:26:47.548
One or the other.

01:26:48.130 --> 01:26:48.930
And then after that,

01:26:49.270 --> 01:26:50.572
I think we're going to have Bloodline

01:26:50.612 --> 01:26:52.753
Comic Zone with Carmella on the

01:26:52.974 --> 01:26:53.613
eighteenth.

01:26:54.434 --> 01:26:56.114
I'm still waiting for them to confirm that

01:26:56.154 --> 01:26:56.475
date.

01:26:56.956 --> 01:27:00.537
So another huge month planned here at the

01:27:00.658 --> 01:27:04.079
USDN highlighting these phenomenal indie

01:27:04.119 --> 01:27:05.921
creators just like John here.

01:27:06.622 --> 01:27:07.422
And as always,

01:27:07.502 --> 01:27:08.743
I can't thank you all enough.

01:27:09.003 --> 01:27:11.824
John, welcome to the Council of Nerds,

01:27:11.885 --> 01:27:12.405
my friend.

01:27:13.246 --> 01:27:14.006
And you, sir,

01:27:15.307 --> 01:27:17.828
and George Washington and the Liberty Tree

01:27:18.470 --> 01:27:20.091
are USDN approved.

01:27:21.011 --> 01:27:22.011
That's kind of you, sir.

01:27:22.032 --> 01:27:22.953
I appreciate your...

01:27:23.975 --> 01:27:25.318
I appreciate your kind attention.

01:27:27.121 --> 01:27:29.265
We'll be right back with you after this

01:27:29.385 --> 01:27:29.645
ends.