You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Thank you.
What is up, everybody?
It's the chairman here of the United
States Department of Nerds,
where we are for the people,
by the people, and of the people.
And sometimes in comic books,
it's easy to spot the good guys.
Red, white,
and blue wrap tight around righteousness.
But here in the real world,
half the country would despise anyone who
dressed up and tried to pretend to be
Captain America.
So what happens when a symbol of unity
becomes a weapon of division?
When the mantle of patriotism weighs
heavier than the armor itself?
Tonight on the USDN podcast,
we're talking with John Lazar.
Lazar.
Nailed it.
Writer of General Washington and the
Liberty Tree,
a Tom Clancy-style political thriller that
asks,
Who owns America's symbol and who's
allowed to wear them?
It's a legacy of power, patriotism,
and conflict where an alien symbiote
chooses its next host.
And the burden of a divided nation falls
on two men fighting for what's left of
the American dream.
John,
welcome to the United States Department of
Nerds.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good to be here.
How was that intro for you?
That was fantastic.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
That's the pitch of the conference.
I do my best work when I'm doing
an intro.
So we're done here.
I'll play it.
Absolutely.
I like the opening video and everything,
too.
It's very cool.
Very cool.
Appreciate it.
I owe that to my good buddy, Black,
who took care of me and made that
for me.
But let's start at the top, John.
What is General Washington and the Liberty
Tree, and where did this story come from?
Yeah, you know,
you put it really well yourself just a
minute ago.
It's just that idea that, you know,
I think,
and it's one of the things I love
about superhero comics, it's...
It's very clear who the good guy is
and who the bad guy is.
And we're trying to conquer the world or
rob a bank or get revenge.
But in the real world, we are fighting.
uh over different things and everybody
thinks you know they're the good guy and
people with honest disagreements are the
bad guy and if we had superheroes i
think in the real world outside our window
um
you know,
we'd be spending more time fighting each
other than, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Then, then, you know,
then that clarity of good guys and bad
guys.
So again,
it's the idea that if anybody tried to
be captain America in the real world right
now, you know,
half the country would hate you.
Yeah.
Because we've got entirely different,
you know, I don't know.
Yeah.
Do you watch Strange New Worlds,
Star Trek Strange New Worlds?
No, I'm a Star Wars guy.
I do like the older Star Trek, though.
I'm a huge fan of the earlier stuff,
so I will watch the older stuff.
It's fair.
I highly recommend the show.
But one of the early episodes there,
I'm not a huge Star Trek guy either,
actually.
But I guess there's a big like nuclear
war in Earth's past,
like right around now, I think.
No, I think you're right.
Right.
I think it was twenty twenty five is
when the original Star Trek.
is the year I think it was supposed
to take place.
Yeah.
There's, there's a huge, and, and, um,
it's, it's,
I think it's one of the first might
even be the first episode, but, uh,
the captain is talking to this alien
civilization that's on the brink of
destroying themselves in a similar way.
And the way he puts it is two
dueling ideas about what freedom means,
not good guys and bad guys,
but two different ideas about what the
right thing to do is.
And that just,
that resonated with me so strongly
because, you know,
we've all got super strong opinions about
these things, but, uh,
You know, who decides?
Who decides what's right and wrong?
Who decides what patriotism means?
Yeah.
No, that...
It is weird to see us kind of,
like, right back into, like...
it feels like we're more divided now than
we have been in quite some time with
the,
with everything going on in the world.
And I hate seeing it that way.
Cause coming up in the military,
we were all just one,
like we were there job and we didn't
care about anything else.
We'll do our job.
We'll get our paycheck.
And at the end of the day,
we're going to go have a beer together,
you know?
we bullshit about everything and anything
and nothing in between, you know?
Yeah, no, that's definitely.
And that's, you know,
that's kind of one of the things that
I want to explore with the book and
what it would be like to, you know,
have to carry that weight.
Yeah.
You know, I think,
I think the other thing, and I, again,
I love it about superhero comics,
but like,
You know, your basic superhero story.
You get powers.
You learn a quick lesson about power and
responsibility.
You know,
it takes about twenty minutes and then
you're a good professional superhero for
the rest of your life.
That's a good two issue spread.
Twenty minutes.
Yeah.
Maybe three.
Yeah.
I mean, the way they expand things now,
they can do it for a year.
Mark Waid could make it brilliant.
But, you know, if it happened to me,
like if I got bit by a radioactive
whatever, I would be so bad at it.
Like, well, whatever.
You know, I don't know.
I think ninety nine percent of us would
stumble through it and just never figure
it out.
Right.
It's like, oh,
I can lift a car now.
It doesn't mean I've got hand-eye
coordination.
It doesn't mean I'm not afraid.
I would be the guy that dropped that
car on my own toe.
That's exactly right.
I'd be like Superman number one,
only I'd drop it on myself.
So that's another thing.
I thought about what it would be like
to try to...
carry that weight, that mantle.
And especially if you're just a guy,
like he's not,
the character that we introduced in the
first issue, Dale Gatner, he's just,
you know, he's a real every man,
not a Peter Parker every man,
but a real just like, oh man,
what did I stumble into?
This is really, really hard.
And, you know,
he wants to do his best.
He wants to serve his country and,
and help people and do the right thing.
But, you know,
I just thinking about it right now,
like I, it'd be a lot, man,
you know.
It is a lot to swallow all at
one time.
So the very first General Washington is
George Washington West.
Yes.
And he did that.
He held that mantle for sixty five years.
From Normandy to Fallujah,
he was like the ideal superhero for the
time.
So he's gone now.
Ten years of silence.
And then.
It kind of felt like.
the tree just wouldn't.
So let's back up.
The Liberty Tree in this story is a
symbiote,
similar to Venom and any other symbiotes
out there.
But it's very selective on who it will
basically bond with.
Yes, thank you.
And so I think that's one of the
dopest ideas ever, by the way.
It's really cool that
there's a tree, the liberty tree,
you know, is like, no, not this guy,
next.
You know, how did that come about?
It's so funny because, like, you know,
I'm trying to tell this story that I
want to tell, and, like,
the superpowers aspect is, it didn't,
it's like,
I'll work out who's got what powers later.
Um...
And, again, with that sort of, like,
idea I was just talking about of, like,
you know,
the everyman thrust in a situation that he
never asked for.
The George Washington West,
that original character, he's very, like,
don't tell Marvel, don't tell Disney,
but it's a very, like,
meant to evoke Steve Rogers,
the kind of character.
Yeah, yeah.
You a hundred percent get that vibe when
it shows the general...
I'm sorry, the George Washington West.
It one hundred percent felt like that.
Which is funny because this new comic book
day, Captain America,
seventeen seventeen seventy six came out
and that Captain Marvel was eerily similar
to your George Washington West's character
when it does the flashback to him.
yeah it's it's it's uh i it's i
i bought that issue i haven't had a
chance to look at my comics yet um
yeah like designing uh designing new
superhero characters is tricky oh yeah i i
imagine there's i don't think there's a
character out there today who really isn't
influenced
from a character of yesteryear.
It's just hard.
It's all been done.
One of the big processes of this project
has been pulling characters that are meant
to evoke
You know, it's like, you are,
you're supposed to look at this guy and
think that's Captain America,
that's Wonder Woman, that's the Flash.
But that haven't been taken by any of
the, by Marvel, by DC, by Astro City,
by Image, by all of these worlds.
And then I'm also, you know,
I'm trying to pick up on some,
because it's a book about patriotism in
America and just trying to pick up some
characters from American history.
Yeah.
You know,
we've got we've got a speedster who has
kind of an old time.
Like,
I don't know if you watch old John
Wayne movies.
Oh, no.
One hundred percent.
I grew up on that.
Yeah.
But, you know,
he's he's he's got he's got like the
old cavalryman uniform.
Right.
Yeah.
I did notice that.
And I was wondering where the influence of
that came from.
And I'm glad you said John Wayne,
because that's all my grandma watched
growing up.
Yeah.
Bonanza and Gunsmoke.
So as a kid, I'm sitting there going,
hey, is Scooby-Doo on yet?
And she's like,
sit your ass down and watch Gunsmoke,
Grandma.
Can I go outside then?
It's raining.
All right, Gunsmoke it is.
That's great.
No, I love old Westerns and like...
You know,
you're trying to find stuff that hasn't
been used and you get an idea that
it doesn't, you know,
it doesn't trigger anything in your
memory.
You go look on the internet,
you type in the,
You type in superhero and then the name.
And then and it's like, no, actually,
somebody in nineteen eighty two in
Squadron Supreme number four,
like use this name so you can't have
it.
But we you know,
we got the speedster and like I'm
brainstorming names came up with
thoroughbred,
which is a pretty good name for a
speedster.
It really is.
Yeah.
And somehow nobody's nobody's taken it.
And then suddenly it's just like, oh,
he can be a cavalryman.
And like that blue and that yellow,
that's such a great superhero look.
And then the secret ingredient is our
artist, Jason Muir.
Yep, yep.
I don't know if you've read By the
Horns.
I have not.
Is it a Western comic book?
No, it's a fantasy comic book.
Okay.
And it's put out by Scout.
My shop,
they've got a really great independent
shelf.
Bro, he is such an incredible designer.
And that book, he's designing not just...
humans, but like non-human creatures.
There's unicorn, big floating eye.
He's got such an incredible design sense,
which is not something that even like,
I mean,
there are so many really successful
pencillers who don't really design
characters well.
And I don't have a visual sense at
all, so I'm not pointing the finger.
But yeah, like,
and he did so much great work because
we need,
We need the golden age version of the
character.
We need a modern version.
That was one of my favorite things about
the book is the way it blended the
two different eras during the flashback of
those scenes.
Especially when you got the whole
little...
I don't want to say it was a
Justice League,
but the little Justice League from the
flashback episodes in the book.
I was like, this is so freaking cool.
The way...
even the character design itself was very
golden age then you had the very modern
looking one and i was like i can
get behind this this is cool because i
like that kind of stuff oh yeah uh
i uh the golden age wasn't that long
ago so yeah and it's like i mean
i love that like
mean i got all this i got all
my merchant stuff and like my my friends
always ask me like i don't i uh
i love the movies right mcu but like
when it comes to stuff i want in
my house on my shelf i just love
those old like official handbook of the
marvel universe
right simple colors and designs like i
know i know it doesn't look real it's
not supposed to it's a comic book and
like yeah i love all the things that
they've done in the movies to help you
suspend disbelief and make it look real
like the leather and the body armor but
it's it's not where my heart is no
uh yeah i it's it's hard you know
because i know a lot of um
people who still just prefer that era of
comic book, the golden age.
Here I am like,
I'm absolutely in love with the modern
stuff because during the modern age,
we got a lot more independent comments and
they don't have to have that.
The dirt that the Marvel universe or the
DC universe has to have.
They're not restrictive comics.
character over here on the indie comic can
say fuck.
They can say damn.
They can punch you in the face and
watch your face explode and we're going to
get a full page of your head exploding.
You're not going to get that Marvel in
DC.
You get a little bit in like the
DC dark
the old vertigo lineup you would get that
kind of stuff but it was literally labeled
plus adults on the old vertigo stuff so
i've always found myself drawn more toward
the independent scene of comic boats
So did you I don't know.
When did you get into comics?
I started I got into comics right around
the time that Spawn was born.
So like ninety three exact exact same
time.
And like, you know,
I I had a buddy who had the
old I don't even remember what it was
called.
They've done so many.
But it was a Marvel Universe role playing
game.
And like, yeah, yeah.
And it's just all these characters.
I just fell in love immediately and found
a bookstore near my house that sold
comics.
Fell in love with Marvel,
fell in love with DC.
But then I found Valiant.
Oh, that's a good one.
That early Valiant stuff.
It's funny because you talked about seeing
a guy's head explode, right?
One of the first Valiant comics I bought,
hardcore number one.
The gimmick they had there with the powers
was they've got all kinds of different
powers and they call into headquarters to
switch them, right?
And that created all kinds of fun action
scenes, but they can only have one time.
And at the climax of the first issue,
I can't remember who wrote it or drew
it, but the dude,
he's got invulnerability on,
like that's the power off.
Got a big strong guy,
got him in a bear hug,
but he's invulnerable,
so he can't hurt him.
So he sticks his fist in the guy's
mouth.
and has him switch to a power with
a force field on his fist and the
dude's head explodes.
Yes.
And I'm in like eighth grade and I
love Fantastic Four and I love the
Avengers and I love the X-Men, but then...
uh that was like it was more adults
and kids so that was me i i
i liked the darker grittier comics that we
got with the valiance and you know well
malibu was the first one that did the
first spawn before todd started image and
started producing spawn himself
And just anything like that that I could
get my hands on that was darker and
greedier than what was going on in the
rainbow world of Marvel in DC.
Now,
I did find Vertigo very early as well.
So I have some earlier Vertigo stuff with
Neil Gaiman's writing and that kind of
stuff.
And he just told a gritty, dirty story,
whether from a magic standpoint or just...
You know, something like that.
And I fell in love with Hellblazer,
Swamp Thing.
I'm just like, these dudes are gritty.
And I never really liked Wonder Woman
until I seen her in Justice League Dark
when she was the leader of it.
I haven't read that one yet.
I got a big heart of her.
There's no way, looking in your office,
that you don't have that one.
uh i love i uh uh i it's
it's it's it's on my list i it
might be next would you believe i i
have uh i have re i didn't read
my first hellblazer comic until uh god
like two years ago cy spurrier did
something with a murphy yeah um and now
there's there's like three years brun is
so good yeah he's a good writer oh
dude
Yes.
That's all I can like.
And then Gaiman's influence.
I know a lot of people have gone
away from Gaiman due to recent allegations
and stuff like that.
But I'm never going to take away from
the fact that the dude is just such
a damn good writer and brought us so
many characters that are unforgettable.
Within that universe.
So, no, absolutely, a hundred percent.
Besides,
there's something about his Hellblazer run
that is just absolutely special.
And I actually ended up getting it in
hardback because I couldn't find
individual issues because they're just so
hard to get your hands on.
Yeah, I read, because I still, you know,
when I started making comics,
I became more interested in independent
stuff.
He did a book called Alienated for Boom,
I think.
Mm-hmm.
I love these different takes on superhero
themes and trying to do something similar
with my book.
Just a little something that people will
find familiar and hopefully a little off
the beaten path,
like you're talking about.
It's off the beaten path,
but in a very good way.
I know we were talking before we went
live how I am very much against the
discussion of politics,
but the approach that your book took to
that, it's not divisive.
You know what I'm saying?
It doesn't try to have...
political unrest,
like some of the heavy politic political
comments will do.
So how did you go about,
like finding that happy medium in this
book to kind of like,
I don't want to piss off these people.
I just want something down the middle to
where it could unite both sides of that
political fence, so to speak.
Yeah, that's really tough because,
of course,
I have super specific political beliefs
that I won't get into on your show,
brother.
I read it on your blog,
which was really cool to see.
The mask for me was like,
I like this guy,
just the mask and the coffee cup.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a long story.
We'll save that one for another time.
Let's talk about General Washington.
Yeah,
you got to be able to poke fun
at yourself.
No.
So I come from theater.
And there is nothing in the world like
bad political theater.
Like...
Trust me.
Like,
we've seen bad political movies and bad
political comics.
Oh, yeah.
And it's just because it's cheaper.
It's just easier to put on a bad
political play.
And people have, like, you know,
they have the best of intentions because
you've got a point of view and you
want to share it and you want people
to think like you say, tell a story.
And...
The easiest thing in the world is to
just do a story where, like, oh,
the people who think like me are good,
they're virtuous, they're brave,
they're funny,
and people who don't think like me are
terrible, awful,
cowardly people who do vicious,
terrible things.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
I used to...
I used to read scripts for a submission
process for a, I live in Chicago.
I used to read scripts for a explicitly
political theater company.
And, you know,
I learned so much because I read,
I read scripts ranging from like, Oh,
this is really,
this is really amazing to like, you know,
don't quit your day job.
Right.
Yeah.
That's where my grandparents are from
originally is from Chicago.
Nice.
My dad, my dad grew up here too,
years and years ago in the thirties.
But, you know,
and you just learn that the stuff,
the stuff that is preachy and simplistic
like that,
it's not effective in terms of evoking
emotion.
Like it, believe me,
as somebody like I can get up on
my high horse and waggle my finger and
preach and,
And if you're talking to somebody who
already agrees with you about stuff,
it's nice to jerk that chain now and
then.
But for the purposes of drama,
for creating a story,
you need to be able to get inside
the head of people who don't think like
you and see
where they're coming from and not just
villainize them because that might,
you know, on a level it feels good,
but it's not,
it doesn't contain a lot of truth.
There aren't a lot of people who think
like I'm going out there to do something
bad.
Right.
Yeah.
And there's, there's a,
that small piece from both sides of the
wall that are that way.
Yeah.
And there's a time, but no, it's like,
there's a, it's, um,
You know, I want to there's a scene,
there's a scene in a book,
there's a scene in the comics takes place
at a bar.
And I've got a narrator who, you know,
stands in for my beliefs to a certain
extent.
And I thought that part was really cool.
The bar scenes.
I thought that was a really cool thing
to do.
And it is, it's just, it's,
he's got a point of view and he's
kind of a jerk about it.
And he's our narrator and we're supposed
to like him.
But at the same time, he's, you know,
he's rude and dismissive of a guy.
And he ends up hurting his feelings and
chasing him out of the room and thinking
maybe that wasn't the best.
Maybe that wasn't a good choice.
yeah and maybe i don't understand where
he's coming from which is part of the
journey he's going to go on throughout
this story because he's a you know gene's
got a little bit of a short temper
and uh you know as somebody as somebody
who's a short temper has gotten him into
a few situations over the years yeah
that's that's something that's something
he probably needs to work on that's a
chicago thing a hundred percent yeah yeah
yeah so yeah you just try to be
uh
you know,
fair and compassionate and empathetic
towards everybody.
Because, you know,
people think they're doing the right
thing.
Whatever they do.
And we bump up against each other.
Life is hard, you know?
Gotta be harder.
Yeah.
So, when this alien symbiote,
the Liberty Tree,
finally bonds with its new host, Del...
The dude's not exactly Captain America two
point.
Oh,
he's definitely on a on a different
learning curve than Captain America was.
That's for sure.
So walk us through that.
Like how like what was you going into
this?
Like like how am I going to let
this the Liberty Tree,
the symbiote pick its new hopes?
Like what kind of walk us through that?
Like how you landed on that?
Yeah, that's actually one of the big,
hopefully,
and I'm glad you're curious about it,
because I want that to be one of
the big mysteries of the book that
everybody's trying to solve.
Basically,
the idea is the character we've been
talking about, the Golden Age version,
George Washington West,
he died about ten years ago.
We're telling the story of the flashbacks
of his death,
and
Let's add in this symbiote does kind of
extend the life of the host.
So I don't any,
because it's weird when we're talking
about from Normandy to Fallujah and you're
like, well,
this guy just died ten years ago.
And I don't want people scratching their
head going, wait, what?
How does that math don't math?
The host, the Liberty Tree,
when it pits its new host,
it does extend the life of the host.
Comic book science, man.
I gotta love it.
It's like science, but better.
So much better.
You wouldn't,
you get bit by radioactive spider.
You die.
Um, yeah, no.
So the idea is that when he dies,
when he,
when the original dies about ten years
before the story takes place, um,
the symbiont just won't bond with anybody
else.
And the government tries and tries and
tries,
tries everything that they can think of.
And as you can imagine,
like invests billions and billions of
dollars,
just trying to get a new general
Washington, get a new superhero.
We wanted to do,
we want to do a world like,
unlike a marvel or a dc where there's
just a limitless supply of super powered
beings um we really want like like around
twenty or thirty in the whole yeah in
the whole universe here so that um
so that like the emergence of a new
superhuman is just a major shift in the
balance of power it's newsworthy
absolutely it's not like oh there's you
know toast man and he's got the power
to toast and will that not not the
best example but you get what i'm getting
we get where you're going with it
But can he butter the bread evenly is
the important part of Toast Man.
You need Butter Knife Man and their team.
I'll write that next.
Co-creator.
We'll work out the rights.
We'll divvy up the rights when we're off
the air.
The idea is that it's been ten years
and
during that time,
America hasn't had a superhero,
and so we just feel vulnerable.
We would, you know,
if we had a superhero for years and
years and years, and suddenly...
Especially if every other major power
player has their own.
Yeah, like the idea,
and we'll tell this story in future
issues,
like over the circumstances surrounding
his death,
the Justice League characters that we were
talking about earlier...
leave the United States, too.
In an early draft, I used, it's corny,
it didn't work,
but I used the Liberty Society of America,
and then they became the Liberty Society
International.
Of course, that's, you know,
referencing all those great Giffen,
DeMatteis,
Yeah.
And I wish I could.
I wish I could have ended up using
that because it's such a clear.
That's another thing.
Like in the real world,
if you were the Justice League of America
and then you became the Justice League
International,
that would piss a lot of people off.
Oh, yeah.
You know what I mean?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, we had a West Coast League,
you know, at one point.
Well,
they just I think they just finished the
run of that one.
But, you know,
it was like they only service the West
Coast.
Yeah.
So it's just, it's, it's,
it's about that long absence.
And then, and we'll, we'll, we'll,
we'll tell this story in issue three.
But like Dale Gatner is just,
he's an every guy.
He's, he's me.
And again,
you could give me all the superpowers in
the world,
but I wouldn't be able to do the
job.
But we, we see Dell in this book.
take a superb ass whipping.
Absolutely.
I mean, he gets his guy,
but the boy took himself an ass whipping.
Yeah.
It's so, it's so, uh, it's so interesting.
Cause you're, you're, you're just,
you're not, you don't see that a lot.
Yeah.
I'm going to, so when you see him,
like kind of like on there,
they showed the picture of him.
His faces are all, you know,
bloody and beat the shit.
And he's just kind of like,
Just just just try and it's so it's
and Jason again,
like he's so good at capturing, you know,
you're used to seeing your superheroes as
a badass.
Right.
And and like he's just very good at
capturing, you know,
a little a little more vulnerability.
And I think seeing a little bit more
fear in your superhero's eyes,
you're not used to it.
And again, if it was me...
It was reminiscent of Superbad,
if you read that.
Like the actual comic book,
The Vigilantes.
I don't think I... No,
I don't think I know that one.
I think, was it Superbad?
The one with the Vigilantes?
I think that was it.
I don't know.
I want to say it's from Image,
but they made it into a movie.
You think it's Kick-Ass?
Kick-Ass, that's it.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, Kick-Ass.
Superbad has some of the same actors in
it.
You're right.
It's Kick-Ass because it's got Nick Cage
in it,
and that's probably my favorite role Nick
Cage has ever done.
But very much that element of this dude
just takes a supreme ass whipping but
still gets his guy.
nice yeah so have you read that i
read that it's actually not bad and in
the movie did a really good job of
kind of bringing that to the screen yeah
i definitely wanted to check out later on
my list
So while we're thinking about this,
or rather while I'm thinking about this,
how did the Liberty Tree come about
exactly?
Because I don't remember it being touched
on.
Excuse me, I'm coughing.
How did that come about?
You know, I just,
I'm telling a story about symbols.
And, you know, I was thinking about,
I was thinking about
thinking about the powers.
And, you know, it's like that,
that stuff didn't come as naturally to me.
And I know, and I know that it's,
you know what it was once upon a
time, like, and this was like, this,
this was quite a while ago when I
was working on this.
And the story was different and going in
a different place.
I was like,
this is going to be like a spiritual
successor to maximum carnage.
You read that?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And like that book, like, it's so funny.
Cause like when I,
I read it when it was out and
I just loved it.
And then I've got the trade on this
shelf back here.
I've read it three or four times and
it's actually,
I got to go pick up the trade
because that's,
I haven't read that in so long.
I have to go hit up one of
the secondhand bookstores around here and
find that one.
It was good.
It's so good.
And, like, for, like, you know, like,
eighth grade me, it was awesome.
But then reading it again as an adult,
it's actually this, like,
there's this great theme to it.
And it's about...
you know this previous traditional
generation of don't kill superheroes
versus a more violent venom and yeah and
morbius there's actually and uh it's it's
one of my favorite moments in comics when
uh when spider-man's he's got his ass
kicked and he's down and and the uh
the last page during the splash page at
the end of the issue is
Captain America, Steve Rogers there to,
you know, join,
join his side and give him a hand
up.
And that's like, that's,
that's the feeling I want this book to
have.
Cause we are at each other's throats about
what is patriotism, who owns the flag,
but there is still,
there is still something that we can all
understand.
rally around and unite in because like
that moment like that.
Steve Rogers helping Peter Parker do his
feet.
I know exactly which one you're talking
about too.
I think that was one of the ones
I read probably around the same time you
read it as well.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So like in terms of the powers, like,
it's like, I need, I need, I need,
I need a power, um, for legal reasons.
He can't have a shield of course.
Yeah.
Um, and I thought like a symbiote,
a symbiont and like, but how do you,
you know, how do you make it different?
Yeah.
And so the idea of making it,
making it plant like, um,
Which I think is something Jason does such
a great job of.
Sometimes it just looks like a big old
tree trunk,
but he's also got a sense of...
I don't have the best visual sense.
I just have to, I have to be,
when I'm writing,
I have to see something so that I
know I'm not telling him to draw something
that can't be drawn.
Yeah.
But, you know,
to actually work with such a great artist
who's got that sense and to see where
he goes with it.
Like this idea was just so vague in
my head,
but the way he brings it to life,
just like I can, you can,
you can see it.
transforming and moving um so yeah that
was honestly when you kind of see like
the tree kind of envelop him a little
bit and then you realize that as he's
throwing punches it's like the tree is
extending and hardening his fist in those
punches yeah and i was like damn that's
that's kind of cool i like that because
it's so different
yeah and what another thing that i think
jason does a killer job of um you
know one of the things we talked about
uh to draw the distinction between dale
the new guy and george washington west the
original uh is like he's dale is not
good at this so he's gonna know so
he's he's all the help he can get
he needs all the help he can get
so he's just got big sloppy clumsy
constructs
And there's a panel.
A lot of this is on the Kickstarter
page,
so if anybody listening wants to check it
out.
This is in our preview art.
The original guy,
he can jump around the room and whip
it around like he's been doing his whole
life, which he has.
But Dale is just, you know,
I've got a big hammer.
It's like the difference between Silver
Age Green Lantern stuff and Kyle Rayner.
Green Lantern stuff, right?
Yeah.
And then, like, at a certain point,
you know,
I'm digging around for symbols and trying
to...
you know,
put this guy's whole visual identity
together.
And, you know,
I'm just on the internet looking for stuff
and I'm looking at,
and I'm looking at quotes and the Liberty
tree thing fits so perfectly.
It does.
Yeah.
Because of that quote,
it's all over the book.
We actually sent it,
we're sending the book to the printer and
we put this quote on the, on the,
on the back of the book, Thomas Jefferson,
the tree of Liberty must be refreshed from
time to time.
with the blood of patriots and tyrants,
right?
Badass quote.
And it works so well for us here
because who decides who's the patriot and
who's the tyrant, right?
Yep.
And that's what the book is about.
So it's just in the same way that
like we were talking about a little while
ago with the cavalryman named
Thoroughbred.
Yeah.
And then you had the one guy who
was the robot.
You got a... Well, he was a...
It's a suit.
It's like an Iron Man.
Don't tell Disney.
But it's very different, though.
It was a very different set of everything.
Very different look to it.
And then George Washington West, his wife,
is very much like the Homelander stuff.
The female Homelander, basically.
Yeah, she's a little... Not the Nazi one,
the other one.
A little Wonder Woman-ish.
I didn't want to say Wonder Woman,
you know, but... But no,
it's just a really,
really cool team that was assembled there
together.
And the powers are really cool,
very unique to the individual.
And honestly,
if you went back and did a prequel
comic with just the Golden Age-looking
characters...
Would be dope as hell.
I would be all over that in a
heartbeat as well.
If the book takes off, I have plans.
I definitely have plans for that Iron Man
guy.
Dude, he was... The Indian...
Coyote.
Coyote, yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's a whole back story there that I'll
get to one of these days.
It was just so cool because it was
like you had the modern story going and
then you kind of get this really cool
flashback and you see all this whole new,
the old school characters and you're like,
man, these guys are cool.
And then we're stuck with Dale Gatner.
Yeah.
In the modern day.
Good old Dale.
And that poor guy.
Again, just imagine if it was you.
You know what I mean?
Dude, yeah.
I don't know how far we got in
discussing it, but how did the tree go?
Dale's my guy.
We're going to tell that story.
Okay.
We won't touch it.
I don't want you to give nothing away
too soon.
But again,
it's good that you wonder because
everybody in this world is trying to
figure that out because we don't have, oh,
don't worry,
we'll just get another superhero because
it's intellectual property.
It's like, no,
there's a handful of these people.
This symbiote
is a major national security asset.
So yeah,
where's the tree actually located in the
book?
Like within the world?
It's...
It's in the custody of the United States
government,
and there's going to be conflict over that
because the character we discussed
earlier, his wife, Marcia Ultrix,
she thinks quite reasonably,
I would argue,
that as George West's
you know air next and that it should
go to her but the united states government
took possession of it and you know like
you don't want that it's one of those
things where this power is like absolutely
bonkers to be in the hands of just
a everyday joe yeah
And Dale comes off as like,
I don't know,
I'm very off-stretching this,
but Dale was the drunk security guard who
accidentally stumbled in and the tree was
like, Dale's my guy.
He just was like, hey, come here, Dale.
You're not super far off.
I'm just throwing it out, dude, because,
like, in my head,
that's all I can see is, like,
Del was the night security guard.
He was still a little bit nippy from
the night before.
He comes in, and the tree's like, Del,
that's my guy right there.
And, like, why?
You know, it doesn't... Yeah,
nothing special about Del.
He's got, you know,
two divorces and three kids.
That's right.
And he works hard, but...
yeah man like like and imagine you know
imagine if you're working for the
government and like you know they're
they're they're we'll we'll see some of
this coming up you know um because they
want i was like you know they they
want it they want to put it on
a you know on the best of the
best like you know the the elite military
guys but yeah the tree is like math
nothing no nothing works i had a you
know i had a i had a scene
that i haven't actually been able
to work in into the story anywhere is
actually one of the first scenes that came
to me, just the notion of,
you know sitting down with um the guy
we talked about earlier gene gene fuller
he's a narrator and he's he's um he's
like a rick jones figure kind of grown
up and grown old like like wanted to
be a teen sidekick in the yeah yeah
um and now he's now he's like he's
like an older guy and
sort of the self-appointed guardian of the
general Washington legacy, right?
And like just sitting down in a room
with Dale and another character who will
pop up a little later and just trying
anything in the world to like,
what could explain this?
Like George liked pancakes.
Do you like pancakes?
no do you like james taylor i like
james taylor i like james maybe it maybe
it's james so you know what i mean
yeah it's it's a mystery and trying to
figure out what makes the symbiont choose
is something that the characters will be
just is that something you will touch on
later in another issue on how like kind
of like this is thinking like how he
wants to do this or what his
his thoughts are into why he picks who
he picks to be his host.
I mean, I know exactly where it's going.
Yeah.
Okay.
Cool.
No,
it's one of those where I love the
way you did it because you kind of
gave us where we're at today.
But by the time you get to the
end of it, I'm like,
I have so many questions.
Good.
Well, hopefully enough.
It means you did your job.
Hopefully enough to make you want to buy
issue two.
Oh, no, absolutely.
Absolutely.
So let's talk about this powerhouse team
that you assembled to bring this book to
life.
So we have Jason Muir on art.
Arthur Hesley on colors.
mika meyers on letters sean manning did
your edit in and then kelly williams is
also doing a alternate cover for this book
and mika meyers letters for quite a few
companies because that name is very
familiar yeah yeah he's uh he he's in
indie comics powerhouse he does uh yeah
zinscope
Yeah.
I, I, I, I, I found him.
Um, he was, uh,
looking for work on Twitter.
Yeah.
I, I click, uh,
I think it's portfolio day hashtag.
So, and, um, yeah.
And then Sean,
I suggested him when we were looking for
a letter, um,
Sean Manning, our editor,
I brought up like, oh,
I saw this guy in line and Sean
went, oh, he's great.
And we, yeah.
When I seen his name, I was like,
I'm pretty sure I know who that is.
I'm pretty sure I probably have.
Dirty or forty books lettered by him.
Yeah.
I wouldn't be surprised.
He works.
He works a lot.
And, you know, I'm like I said,
I came from theater.
Right.
And, um,
God bless all of these collaborators for
bearing with me because this is the visual
storytelling comics.
Like it, it hasn't come naturally to me.
Um, and like, if you look at,
if you look at the first couple of
books I've,
I've made on it would absolutely prove it.
Yeah.
I have those written down here to talk
about those a little bit too.
Yeah.
Um, so I, I'm, I'm,
I'm just very lucky to be working with
people who can help me out in that
aspect.
Well, you know what they say, right?
Surround yourself with people smarter than
you.
And that's most people.
A hundred percent.
All the best leaders will surround
themselves with people smarter than
themselves.
Yeah.
I mean, like there's, there's,
there's just like, I, I,
I love trying this new thing and learning
new stuff.
It's my favorite.
Uh, but there's a lot, I don't know.
Um, you know, like, uh,
just one example when I'm, when I'm, uh,
establishing like some of the antagonists.
Right.
And I want, I wanted to, um,
establish that some of the younger guys
were, uh,
like doing a more,
like they're confederacy themed bad guys,
right?
Yeah, they're domestic terrorists.
They're domestic terrorists.
And I wanted to establish that like these
new younger guys,
that they were initially like corny,
Like, you ever read, like,
old Marvel comics, like,
stuff like The Sons of the Serpent?
It's wonderful,
admirable stuff with a little social
justice cause in it,
but it's also kind of corny.
Like, oh, we're racist,
and we dress up like snakes.
Absolute Batman, yearly,
just literally burned an entire, you know,
house full of these people to the ground.
Yeah, it was very, very controversial.
I mean,
and the absolute Batman is an absolute
freaking unit to begin with.
Absolutely.
That's Daniel Warren Johnson, right?
Oh, yeah.
DWJ, dude.
Or Scott Snyder.
Scott Snyder.
Right.
Scott Snyder.
But I think he did the art.
Yeah.
That guy's incredible.
DWJ is phenomenal.
Like that Wolverine cover he did a couple
of months back.
I think I missed it.
Dude, you missed a classic.
That book,
I think it was like on the shelf
for nine ninety nine.
Like you weren't paying less.
It might have been more.
Nice.
Might have been nineteen ninety nine.
But the book is still like fifty bucks
right now.
And that's like today.
He's worth the first month.
It was worth it was like one hundred
bucks at one point.
Yeah.
That's raw, ungraded, as it sits,
bag and board.
Crazy.
I mean, he's worth every dollar.
I think the first thing I read of
his was that Beta Ray Bill book.
Yeah.
I think that's most people's first.
And they don't know it's him.
Because I think that was one of the
very first books that kind of like
introduced us to him.
Yeah, because I'm a huge Marvel nerd,
and second, third-rate characters,
third-tier, let's say.
Definitely a third-tier.
Like, I...
But he's so beloved.
Beta Ray Bill is just like one of
these beloved characters.
Like if you see a giant camel or
moose wearing Thor's armor and you're
like, oh, that's Beta Ray Bill.
Come on, guy.
Get with it.
That's how you know you love superhero
comics.
Like you look at that guy and it's
like, yes, I want lots more of this.
I'm the same way with Howard the Duck.
I absolutely love Howard the Duck.
And it's been one of my life goals.
Anytime I come across something related to
Howard the Duck, I'm like,
I can't not go home with that.
I should have worn my Howard the Duck
t-shirt for this.
I had one for a while.
It got washed one too many times.
Plus,
I put on a little weight since I
retired, so...
It didn't quite fit anymore anyway.
Yeah.
No, I read that.
It's here someplace.
I read that omnibus during the pandemic.
Steve Kerber, man.
Insane talent.
He's such a fun character too,
but let's focus on General Washington.
I'm sorry, we...
let's talk about the team man yeah okay
so jason um again uh i i found
by the horns and like i'm not i'm
not kidding like rush right out it is
maybe the prettiest comic book i've ever
i've ever read um you know you nailed
it and he he's so good at both
styles the modern the golden he he had
he done a very good job
of combining those yeah the styles and
again like it it's like i needed such
specific stuff and he knocked it out of
the park and put up with me which
isn't nothing um no i did um uh
on on my last one shot which was
quite a while ago um i hired him
to do an alternate cover um
And it was just, you know, first draft,
got it.
Like, it's great.
When the time came to put the team
together,
he was at the top of the list
and he was available.
And I'm the luckiest boy in the world.
We could all be so lucky.
So do you know how long you're planning
on to run this book?
Are you planning on like three issues,
a five?
Or is it one of those where you'll
let the audience let you know when they're
kind of tired of it?
So when I was putting the team together,
one of the people I talked to gave
me just a life-changing piece of advice.
Because I do.
When you talk about why did the symbiont
choose who it chose,
that's a moment at the very end of
the story that I want to tell.
Um,
and I was talking to a dude and
he told me like,
what you want to do is like,
you've got your star Wars.
You want to carve out your,
a new hope.
Yeah.
Something with a, um, beginning,
a middle and an end that you can
start with.
Cause I'm, you know,
nobody knows who I am.
Uh, and, and people, I, I buy,
I buy my comics based on, you know,
knowing the art team and, and yeah.
And, and so like, it's,
it's an uphill battle.
So for putting the story together and
eventually hopefully looking for a
publisher for it,
we've got an opening four-issue arc.
Again,
like when this when this guy told me,
do your do your A New Hope.
It was like the sky parted because I'm
staring down this like this is going to
take me twelve, fifteen issues.
How am I going to be able to,
you know,
afford that and put it all together?
So four issues for this first opening arc.
No, that's that's a good,
good round number.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And if we're lucky enough to find an
audience and people want more,
I'm happy to provide it.
We'll see.
We'll see what we'll see.
No, you got a great team with you.
And I think you've found that little piece
of knowledge,
that little nugget that you needed to kind
of go, all right.
know how to do this now i think
i have this figured out and like i
said you have a a really good team
around you and thankfully they're a team
that knows how to work together because
the lettering was amazing the colors
fantastic the art the story everything
just works and flows together and i say
this a hundred times i'll say it a
hundred more
It's the most neglected thing about comic
books, and that's your letter.
And they will make you or break you.
And you've got a great letter on top
of it.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Like,
that's one of those things that I don't
understand super well.
I'm reading and trying to learn a little
more.
But, like, you know,
we've all backed Kickstarters where, like,
oh, this doesn't look like a comic book.
And it just really...
under my experience want to shout out
Arthur as well came recommended by a
writer that I know and like again by
the horns which I keep bringing up get
it it's so it's beautiful but it's it's
brightly colored like yeah
super super bright and like that's just
not quite right for this book we want
it to look a little bit like a
little bit down to earth a little more
down to earth and you know like that
was the instruction that we talked about
with Arthur right up front and again just
sort of instinctively it looks like the
real world and that's perfect for this
book and what I think you're going for
with this book and it's
I absolutely loved it.
It fit.
Everything fit together.
And like we talked earlier,
this book could have easily done this and
divided people.
It didn't do that at all.
It just towed the line very well in
the story.
And that's one of those things where I
can greatly appreciate because...
It's hard to do because you have a
certain belief system,
and oftentimes when you're reading a comic
book, that bleeds through.
And you can tell kind of where the
author or the writer of the story is
kind of like,
I know what way he goes,
and you did not do that.
And I can't imagine you just sitting there
going –
damn.
And then your editor going, Hey dude,
did you really mean it to say like
that?
You know?
So shout out to the,
to the editors of the world because those
people can make and break you too.
Yeah.
And Sean is, Sean is fantastic.
Keeps a,
keeps good eye on me and on everybody
helped us out.
Sean helped us find Kelly,
Kelly Williams for the alternate cover,
who is wonderful and just has that,
you know,
he does a lot of horror stuff and,
That's my heart right there.
I love a good horror comic book.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like, you know,
in that alternate cover,
which is selling really well for us,
check it out on Kickstarter.
You know,
it's got it's a little bloodier than the
main book, a little dirtier.
And I think that's how that's my favorite
type right there.
yeah that's why i'm such a huge fan
of these types of books of kickstarters
and the indies man yeah just you want
it dirty you want it greedy you want
it to say four or five six times
go for it because you can do it
and get away with it yeah that's right
it it's uh no accountable to no one
but myself
exactly and I had read just saying fuck
that many times reminded me of a comic
book I had read not that long ago
it's like the main character of the comic
book like every time something would
happen you could see him just go it
was just the way the art was done
and just the way the lettering was done
of that book it was just it made
it funny in a more serious book where
he was just kind of like
every two to three page on like a
random panel he's just like you're like
yes i i know that feeling oh we
all do i have to pause and do
that a few times a day so you
described this kind of as a tom clancy
meets astro city like tactical realism
meets some moral complexity
did you keep the story grounded outside of
we know you have a really strong editor
did you while still you still managed to
hit this cosmic superhero scale it like
How did you keep all that together?
Well,
I try to lean on that theater background.
I used to be an actor,
not a very good one.
But the job is to get inside everybody's
head and just put yourself in the
situation and look at it from everybody's
point of view.
And really, you know,
you just have to really spend time.
Cause again, the first,
the first temptation, the easy,
the easy road is like, ah, you're just,
you're just a piece of shit.
So I'm going to make you a piece
of shit.
Yeah.
But you gotta,
you gotta spend some time singing like,
no, like what, what actually,
what actually is it like to be this
person right now?
So like all, all, you know, that's a,
that's part of my writing process every
time just you know you do it from
one character's point of view and write
out what they do and then you switch
hats which is tricky sometimes yeah but
then and you see like okay well that's
what this guy says well what's it like
to hear that what's it like to be
on the receiving end of that
I always, you know, I start with myself.
Like, how does that, which is an old,
old, old acting trick.
You know, the place,
and I had a great, great acting teacher,
and she would always,
if you were struggling with a moment,
she would always ground you by saying,
how does this make you, not the character,
you, John Lazar, the actor,
how does this make you feel right now?
Yeah.
And you just answer that question for
yourself.
Great advice.
Oh, so like, it's so, it's so,
it's so simple.
Yeah.
And sometimes it's just,
sometimes it's just about keeping it
simple.
Yeah, definitely.
So that's what I try to do.
Hopefully it works.
So you're running this campaign through
resistance comments.
Is that like your personal brand or is
that like somebody you just have with you?
Like, or is that your brand?
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's my brand, the,
that it's a brand.
Well, I mean, it's,
actually say the same thing about usd and
it that's why there's a chairman because i
can't do this forever and if my name's
associated with something they're like oh
that's so-and-so's but if it's the
chairman
then the name the chairman can be passed
to the next generation of the United
States Department of Nerds.
So that's why it's a brand, right?
So you can pass the resistance comments to
somebody else if you ever decided that's
something that you wanted to do.
And if anybody wants it.
Talking about teams,
I just want to put in another plug.
No, please.
The dude who created the Resistance Comics
logo and has created...
Facebook and Instagram both white it out.
Yeah, I saw that.
I don't know.
It's a weird... I'm sorry.
I can see why they tried to do
that, but at the same time,
I'm kind of like, I see it,
but I don't see what they're trying to
do.
You know,
because it doesn't really annotate
anything.
It's just like a random logo, you know?
I don't understand why anybody does
anything, brother.
Yeah.
But the guy who did that logo for
us and the guy who did the cover
logo for this book and the other books
on the Kickstarter,
his name is Winston Gambro.
He makes comics of his own, too,
but really top-notch logo designer.
yeah if you anybody at home listening
needs one plug away dude gambro very very
very very cool guy and very uh good
at his job i like it i will
never get mad at somebody plugging
somebody who helped get them to where they
are today uh so we we started going
down this road not your first rodeo you've
done marguerite versus the occupation
and you've also done odd your odd yarns
yeah so how did you kind of take
those two projects and took what you
learned from those two and kind of applied
it to you know general washington and the
liberty tree and honestly i've seen what
was it i'm sorry marguerite versus the
occupation looks so fun like just such a
cool looking comic book by the way
Yeah, and it was.
Casey Gavito,
another great artist who was wonderful in
that book.
So the truth of the matter,
like I was talking about a little while
ago about how visual storytelling doesn't
work.
Naturally to me.
The first two comics I made and
kickstarted are, you know, they're not,
they're not for sale on this,
on this Kickstarter because they're not
that good.
And coming from theater,
I'm a words first kind of guy.
And that's not,
that's not really what comics are about.
One of, I used to do,
when I wanted to,
try doing this i took classes online at
comics experience and um and i made a
couple of books and you know i was
talking with him and getting some advice
and he told me like i because i
i've had this idea general washing in it
in different forms than for a long time
and you know he just kind of told
me point blank that i wasn't quite ready
because i i didn't um
I just didn't have my head wrapped around
the video.
It's very humbling,
but sometimes that humbling is what you
need to kind of take that step back
and refocus and then go forward.
I mean,
it wouldn't have done me any good to
do this project before I knew enough about
the medium to do it right.
And if I invested all that,
all the time and money in it,
and it was still,
it was still a pretty long and daunting
process.
Yeah.
But so Marguerite was just like,
the goal was to just, just,
It's like one big action scene.
The gimmick is towards the end of World
War II, and there's a young French girl,
Marguerite,
and she's coming home to the house she
abandoned during the occupation because
she wants to be there when it's liberated
by the advancing Allied army.
a house up on the top of the
hill, right?
Where she grew up.
And when she gets there, she sees, uh,
because it's on top of the hill,
there are,
there's a German machine gun nest.
Yep.
Still occupied, still occupied.
And, and it's in her bedroom.
And so, um,
she has to do something about that.
And that's what the comic is about.
Uh, it looks fun.
I'm not going to lie.
I'll send you a copy, man.
Um, I'm, I'm, I'm real proud of it.
Real, real proud of it.
Um,
Talking about the team, it's funny.
The colorist I worked with on that,
her name is Laurel Dundee.
And you should look her up,
because she has a website.
And it's not superhero stuff at all,
but it's really cool artwork.
the coloring is not, it's, it's,
it's not like a superhero book, but yeah.
So a lot of my favorite artists don't
touch superheroes at all.
Yeah.
So it is crazy to think about because
I mean,
you have people like Luanna Vecchia who
did lovesick.
Her art's just absolutely amazing.
Tula Latte out of the UK, her work,
she does a lot of work for distilleries.
She does a lot of, uh,
um covers for like boom and dynamite and
that kind of stuff just absolutely
phenomenal artwork her use of colors and
like abstract colors just phenomenal stuff
and that's just the name too i don't
even want to get too deep into that
because we'll literally be here all night
talking about it yeah so much to know
man it really is it's so deep and
so rich right now
Yeah.
But like, you know, so that was like,
that was, that was just, that was,
that book was on a certain level,
just like me, just like, okay, let's,
let's, let's learn this lesson.
Learn.
Yeah.
And, you know, I,
I think it paid off and like, it's,
it's, it's, it's again, coming, coming,
coming from this world where we do
everything with dialogue, like more than,
more than film.
Like you watch a movie,
you listen to a play, right?
Like dialogue is, is,
it's going to be my first instinct for
the rest of my life,
whether I want it to be or not.
Yeah.
So to, to,
to tell the story was like, no,
the climax is an image,
not a line of dialogue, but like to,
to,
to learn to tell a story that way.
Like that's what.
It's the image in the story advances.
The words advanced the image.
Yeah.
It's, it's,
it's not my exact opposite of what you're
used to.
Yeah.
Cause I like to do things the easy
way.
But the book's always easy to hit the
easy button.
Yeah, yeah.
But the book turned out really well.
Like I said,
I seen it on the Kickstarter and I
was like, ooh, what's this one?
Yeah, it's just a nice, sweet...
little i called it an action fable mostly
because that sounds cool uh no it really
is actually i like that yeah yeah yeah
somebody somebody asked me about that in
an interview like why did you call it
an action fable and i'm like uh because
it sounds sounding cool doesn't it though
um
Plus I always wanted to tell like World
War II stories.
I love that stuff.
John Wayne.
You know what would be really cool?
It's just a book about that kind of
stuff.
Like those little action fables,
so to speak,
about that timeframe and just shoved
together where it's like five, six,
seven different stories.
It's just like two or three page stories.
And it's just like little, little, little,
little stories like that,
where you have this girl's like,
They're in my home.
Oh, no, no, no, no.
Legal fits this.
Yeah.
And you see this young teenage girl,
you know, going up against the, you know,
Nazi occupation of her home.
Yeah.
Somebody out there.
We need that in our lives.
Absolutely.
I'll make more as soon as I have
the time.
That would be really dope.
It's a beautiful comic.
It's available as an add-on and a rewards
tier on this Kickstarter.
Highly recommend you check it out.
I'm super, super proud of that one.
I'm glad you brought that up because
that's where we're at in the interview,
my friend.
So let's talk about the Kickstarter.
We have the book, have the digital book.
You have the alternate cover.
What else can people expect in the
Kickstarter?
um for right now like i'm just focused
on the books i would love you know
love to do merch someday um for right
now i'm just like i'm i'm at the
stage of building the readership one
reader at a time yeah get your audience
yeah so um the most popular tier has
been kelly's alternate cover
And then, yeah, you can get Marguerite vs.
the Occupation,
which we just talked about,
and the other one-shot called Eye Yarns.
That would look really unique, too.
But it would look more of a fun
story, but I'm not sure.
Tell us a little bit about that one
before we drag too far along.
Yeah, that one was...
I don't know if you've seen,
he does a lot of indie stuff.
He's done Kickstarter.
You know Lane Lloyd?
I'm not off the top of my head.
I have to look him up.
Lane is neat.
Has a really great kind of curvy,
kind of cartoony, dark humor style.
Like Scotty Young.
Yeah.
Kind of.
I was online and Lane was looking for
work and
you know sometimes is another another
thing to do in theater um do we
do these little festivals like just just
make something as quick as you can write
a play in twenty four hours and we'll
rehearse it in twenty four hours kind of
thing so i just thought like what if
what if uh what if i take this
this artist up on on their availability
and make a comic and i thought the
art style would be good
uh to pair with silver age super heroics
yeah so the idea i came up with
was to do a tribute to the old
marvel strange tales books those are so
good
Do you remember?
Because you get into comics in the
nineties, right?
It's cool and it's awesome and you get
interested enough to start looking
backwards a little bit.
And like Kirby is cool and it's awesome
and you find all this good stuff and
you find Strange Tales.
Strange Tales birthed some really great
stuff that we're just now really seeing
today like Groot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Groot was born in that.
Yeah,
and you've got the Ditko Doctor Strange
and the Seranko Nick Fury,
and it's just mind-blowing.
Seranko Nick Fury might be my favorite
stuff.
So I just thought,
let's do a tribute to that.
Strange Tales, Odd Yarns.
I'm very subtle.
And just like,
what if Doctor Strange and Nick Fury
switched jobs?
So there's like a hard-nosed World War II
sergeant who's fighting mystical battles
and, you know,
a nerdy surgeon type who becomes an agent
of... Yeah.
Fury, so to speak.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then, you know,
we did the whole gimmick with, like,
fake ads and stuff, which was fun.
Yeah.
The ads are so good in those books,
though.
Yeah.
You can almost just go back and read
some of those books and just enjoy the
hell out of the ads because the story
may be hit or miss,
but the ads are always going to be
amazing.
Yeah.
I like when you can get a reprint
that reprints all of it.
It's rare.
They do the actual newsstand.
Yeah.
It's fun.
So yeah, that book, it's a little lighter.
It's fun.
I think it turned out really well.
We published it like Marvel Comics
Presents style.
Yeah.
So it's a flip book.
So we were able to get two covers
and two alternate covers.
The other one,
which you can get on the Kickstarter,
is a great cover by Alex Cormack,
who if you like horror, man, the best.
I'm not a big horror guy,
but I read Alex's stuff because he's so
fucking good.
Um, so yeah, that's the other, those are,
those are our other rewards.
I like it.
You kept it simple.
You didn't overdo it too, too much,
too soon.
You never want to do that.
You want to really establish an audience.
And then on the next couple, you can,
you can throw out the t-shirt or something
along those lines to go with it.
So no, you're doing it right.
One of these days.
Exactly.
So for the listeners out there,
this campaign is live until the twentieth?
Yeah, twentieth, probably at midnight.
So we've got about a week.
And you can find this book simply by
going to Kickstarter.
If you just start typing in General
Washington and the and symbol,
and it's going to be one of the
first ones to pop up and go give
it a look.
If it's something that sparks your
interest,
then back the comic book.
It's really that simple on Kickstarter.
It's honestly,
and if you don't want to back the
actual book itself,
you can always donate a couple of dollars.
There's always that one option on there
that says, hey, yeah, I like the book,
but funds aren't there, but hey,
here's a buck for you to use toward
whatever it is.
And this is one of the first books
I've had on the podcast that is actually
done already.
And we're running a Kickstarter so you can
get the book print off to the printer.
Yeah.
I like to, this is our fifth Kickstarter.
I'd like to have it done just so,
you know, so, so there's no, uh,
you know, no risk, no,
like it'll be ready in a year and
a half.
Maybe it's like, no, we're, we're,
we're done.
We're ready.
And, uh,
we will have it as soon as, uh,
you know, as soon,
as soon as we've got it in ours.
I like it, man.
That's how it should be.
But I of all people,
I have done so many Kickstarter interviews
and these are my favorite things to do
to the point that that's Kickstarters and
independent creators are my bread and
butter.
And that's where I'm putting my love and
follow behind.
Are these types of interviews here because
I enjoy the hell out of spotlighting
people who you may not know today,
but I want you to know them tomorrow
because by damn, they deserve the love.
So before I let you get out of
here,
I'm going to hit you with a tough
one.
We're going to zoom out just a little
bit.
Superhero stories have always reflected
who we think we are.
From Superman's idealism to the Watchmen's
cynicism,
now we're somewhere in between with this
book.
Where does General Washington and the
Liberty Tree fit into that evolution?
You know,
I think you hit it right on the
nose.
Like,
I'm shooting for something in the middle.
Just because I'm... And, like...
the you know superheroes are walking
symbols right there's like you you see you
see the character you see the name the
costume and you put together pretty
quickly who they are and what they're
about um i want to get um under
the hood a little bit and and deal
with the
human complexity of like it's great to
have this symbol that everybody you know
you see the symbol you make the assumption
but there's a there's a real person with
feet of clay underneath it and it's not
you know it's not as simple as you
know you fight the bad guy and on
page twenty two you beat him up and
you go home with the girl um
You know, I love.
Unless you're Dale,
you go home with a bloody face.
That's right.
That's right, Dale.
Poor Dale.
He does.
That's not his last.
He took that ass whipping like a champ,
though.
I'll give him that.
He got his guy,
but he took that ass whipping.
Yeah.
And, you know, like and like, you know,
then he's got to decide, like,
do I do I want to do this
again?
There's nobody else to do it.
I guess I have to, but oh man,
can we try something else, please?
Because I think that's what most people
will be like.
Yeah, so I'm not, you know, I... Yeah,
not the...
Just sort of the place where that broad
symbolism collides with the complexity of
reality.
Complexity is...
That's where the interesting stuff is at.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
All right, John,
before I let you get out of here,
tell everybody where they can find you.
Well, I am at John underscore Lazar,
L-U-Z-A-R,
on the website formerly known as Twitter.
You can find me under my name on
Facebook.
If you really want a lot more politics,
you can check out my blog,
showercapblog.com.
It's not for everybody.
It really isn't,
but the picture is phenomenal.
The profile picture on the website.
If you don't go there to read it,
go there just to see the profile picture
because it is that amazing.
I agree.
All right, John.
All right, everybody.
That's all the time we have for tonight.
John, you've been amazing.
What's coming up next for me on the
fifteenth?
I'll be back here with Giuseppe.
He is the artist who did Shock Headed
Peter volume one and volume two.
And I can almost guarantee you he's going
to do volume three.
He'll be joining us right here on the
fifteenth.
Fresh fresh.
as a daisy in Italy because he will
be up all day and I will just
have been waking up.
So you're going to spend that one at
ten a.m.
Let me check again.
Yep, we're going ten a.m.
Eastern Time, which is four p.m.
in Italy.
So he will probably be waking up from
his fiesta.
Or siesta, I should say.
One or the other.
And then after that,
I think we're going to have Bloodline
Comic Zone with Carmella on the
eighteenth.
I'm still waiting for them to confirm that
date.
So another huge month planned here at the
USDN highlighting these phenomenal indie
creators just like John here.
And as always,
I can't thank you all enough.
John, welcome to the Council of Nerds,
my friend.
And you, sir,
and George Washington and the Liberty Tree
are USDN approved.
That's kind of you, sir.
I appreciate your...
I appreciate your kind attention.
We'll be right back with you after this
ends.