Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome.
I'm super excited this morning.
Um, actually early morning my time for change, and I'm here with
the lovely Vicky and Joe from the Canine Business Academy, and I can't
wait to get stuck into that topic.
So, ladies, Take it away.
Where in this lovely world are you based?
And, you know, what's your business?
I've kind of already given it away.
Jo: We are in, uh, in England, in the UK, and I would love to say
it's sunny, but it really is not.
It's very grey.
It's trying to be.
No, not here, it's not.
And our business is supporting dog professionals to have a business that
they absolutely love and that loves them back for all the right reasons.
Anke: I love the sound of that.
Okay, well, there's so much I want to know about that.
Um, so, but you're dog trainers as well, aren't you?
Jo: Yes, we are.
Yeah, that's right.
We've been doing dog training for collectively about 25 years, uh, between
us, so lots of miles on the clock.
Anke: So are you still, are you still supporting clients or do still people
come to you like my dog does, whatever, so like you're still working as that or
have you, fully shifted towards like, okay, uh, we support dog professionals.
Vicky: In the thick of it still.
Joe and I had, we met because we had two separate dog training businesses that
we have now collaborated them together.
We've merged them together.
It's one.
And we had very similar views of the dog industry and we could see
there were some things that needed.
Attention, shall we say, and that was our mission, really, is to work together to be
able to help these dog professionals who are struggling in the ways that they are.
And yeah, so the dog training business is now one.
We are doing that alongside Canine Business Academy.
We are reducing our client base because we all find it very
difficult to juggle everything.
But yes, no, we are still in the thick of that dog training at the moment.
Anke: Hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, I was just thinking like, yeah, anybody who's ever transitioned
or pivoted, like knows there is that period where you just have to do both.
But the question, you know, where I was curious about was
like, is the plan to keep to, or is the plan to transition over?
Because it is hard to keep up.
I literally saw an email you sent out this morning and you've got a book in the
making and, you know, and the mastermind, and there are a lot of balls to juggle.
So which ones are your favorite balls then?
Ooh, great question.
Great question.
I hope nobody takes that out of context.
That's
Vicky: Yeah.
I love it, I love it.
Well, actually, we were having a conversation yesterday,
weren't we Jo, about this?
And how much we, we're putting everything into CBA, as we call it, affectionately.
And we never thought we'd feel this way about another business
or another angle of the industry.
Like our passion is so great for this business that we are, yeah, I
think we're feeling that trajectory to make this something really huge.
And we've got these massive goals that we want to be able to hit.
So I think the dog training will, it is reducing, and that is the aim
is to still do it, but in a very limited, reduced capacity and let
the Canine Business Academy kind of just keep growing and growing.
Anke: Yeah, no, I mean, that does make sense because it
gives you that unique angle.
Like, you know, the industry, like, you know, so what is it that
dog professionals struggle most?
Like, what's the state they come to you for?
Like in, you know, like when I go, Oh, what, what's the hardest part of it?
Jo: There is really, doesn't it?
We've got people that are either just really early doors of their
business where they've, they've gone and got a air quote qualification or
an accreditation with a course, and then they're going right, okay, how
do I then turn this into a business?
So we've had a few of those.
Um, We've had some like training veterans that have been doing it for several
years and are just feeling really stuck with knowing what to do next.
Um, feeling like they're not making a living wage, feeling frustrated with the
clients that they're perhaps working with.
Um, and then we've got others that are bigger businesses, let's say where
they've got teams under them and they are in slightly different marketplaces.
So we've got.
Borders and daycares we're working with.
We've got groomers.
Um, so it's kind of cast that net quite nicely, actually, to cover the
dog profession, even though we are specifically talking from our experience.
But because of the role that we have, which is essentially business strategists,
it can apply to the whole industry and it's the whole industry that we,
that we love and want to improve.
Anke: Yeah, no, I love that.
And I remember the conversation, like your podcast, when we, when we met, I was
sitting there listening to Andy, like your fabulous guest on the day, talking about
the challenges and I'm like, well, that's exactly the same that I know in the, in
the coaching space, you know, the sort of the coaching and trainers and therapists
like it's exactly the same stuff, right?
added layer here that there's the dogs involved.
So it's not just the people.
So there's also like, well, okay, like how, you know, who's harder to
deal with the dogs or the people?
Vicky: Always the people.
Anke: All the time.
Yeah, that's kind of like the main difference that it's almost, it's
almost like when you, like I had my first business was a sewing
business and sometimes I'd make, um, You know, flamenco dance costumes.
I'm in Spain.
And, and so I would, you know, and then I would go and, and make a dress, dresses
for like a little group of dancers.
And when they were kids, it's that same situation.
Like the person actually getting the dress is the child, but the person
you're dealing with is the parent, right?
And the teacher of the group.
So it's an interesting, interesting dynamic.
So what would you, what would you recommend to somebody who
says, Oh, you know, I love dogs and I just did the certification.
I want to turn it into a business.
Like what's a tip you'd give them?
Vicky: Well, it's, it's one of those things because
people get into this industry.
This reason, don't they?
It's, it's pull in, it's a passion piece.
And very often that takes over and, and that's all they can think about is
that I want to work with these dogs.
I want to help people, all this stuff, but they forget any kind of plan and
any kind of roadmap and strategy where the business is going to start and
where it's going to maybe end up or the journey they're going to go on to
get to their, their goals or missions.
And have they even thought about what they want their business to look like,
have they even thought about who they want to serve, you know, what kind
of people they are targeting and, you know, what is the purpose of the
business, what are they trying to achieve, what's their, their mission?
Because if we don't know that, then it's really hard to base
the rest on anything really.
So like the, a lot of the work that we do with people is a lot of pre work.
And getting people to think about the purpose of the business, the why they're
doing what they do, where they are and where they want to be and, and just plan
all of those things and just get all what we call the foundational pillars really
solid to be able to build the rest on.
So it can be, I think back to when I first started out and it's the last thing I'd
be thinking about is this business thing.
It's like, what, why do you need to think about that?
It's all the exciting things of starting a business and working with people.
But it pays off so much if you spend that time and just do that groundwork
and it just prevents so many problems in the, in the future if you do that right.
So I think Jo would probably agree that that would be our first piece of advice
is to sit down and think about all of those things that are really important
to you and your values, uh, vision, mission, um, and yeah, just get those
really good and, and really solid.
Anke: Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
I mean, it's like, I, and I think it makes it harder when
it's your first rodeo, right?
Because when I moved to Spain in 2004, it's like, Oh, I want to
make Flamenco costumes, right?
Uh, well, I was the same, you know, all I thought about was next, like
what I can find some poor soul will buy a skirt I made, right?
And you didn't really, and the problem is, I think a lot of people
like that don't know, you don't know what you don't know, right?
So you're not, because I'm sort of seeing it now where it's like, when
you, Like, it's the second vote of you, you know, all these things and you
kind of know about, you know, you were saying it targeting and positioning and
like, what problem are you solving for somebody when you first start out with
this, like, I want to help dogs, like, that's the last thing you think about,
but you should be thinking about, right?
So how do you find this hard to,
I mean, it feels to me, it's like people won't search for
something they don't know exists.
Vicky: Yeah, it's a bit like a puppy owner.
In an ideal world, you want them all to start as soon as they get the puppy
without any issues having started or anything, but they don't do that.
So they try and do things on their own for a little bit and then they
go, Oh my God, it's too overwhelming.
I can't do it by myself.
So this is what we typically tend to find, isn't it, Jo, that we get people
who have tried to do their best.
And it really is trying to do your best because you just
don't know anything different.
And then coming up with all these obstacles and this frustration that
we talked about at the beginning, the burnout, the tiredness, all
of that stuff just kicks in.
Um, and it would be absolutely amazing if we could reach out to people who
haven't even started yet or are thinking about getting started and getting
to the source of, of them really.
Um, so again, that's another one of our missions is to try and,
yeah, prevent as many people going through what we've been through.
Both been through as we possibly can.
Anke: Yeah, no, I think anybody who's, who's turned a passion into
like, that's the thing for me, that started 20 years ago and it's
always been about the passion.
But it comes with that pitfall, like the very same thing that drives you,
motivates you to actually do something with it is also the thing that stops
you from being strategic and methodical.
So yeah, totally makes sense.
So tell me about the book.
Jo: It's a labour of love, this is.
So the book is due to come out in November this year, so November 2024, and it
is We haven't got a name for it yet.
Nameless book.
But the content is, is all about, as, as Vicky alluded to, like
building these really strong foundational pillars in your business.
So the, the hope and the purpose of it is that somebody will be
able to pick it up and go, right.
If I do these steps.
Then I'm going to be in a much better place to understand myself and my
role in the business, like what my business actually looks like, the, the
type of people that I'm serving, the offers that I am putting out there.
It's like my whole service piece, whatever that looks like.
And thinking about it from the customer Journey bit as well, like how are
they viewing your business and just really getting you to think about all
of these different pillars that you've potentially not ever considered, or
if it has been considered, it may have just been a fleeting thought because
then the day to day gets in and we're like, Oh, I need to bring in some
money, I just need new clients, I just need this, I just need that, and
we get caught up in, in that world.
So.
This is to hopefully give people space to, to take a little bit of time out, hit
pause, breathe, and start to implement some of these strategies that we know
can really make a huge difference.
Anke: I love that.
I love that.
It's kind of like the dog business Bible, right?
Yeah,
Vicky: I
Jo: think,
Vicky: yeah.
And actually, it's designed and it's written in such a way where if the
steps are followed in the order that we put them in, it takes you from
one to the other really fluidly.
And it, like Jo said, it's a step by step guide as to, Wherever you are, whether
you're new, whether you're established, to be able to get to that point where
you absolutely love your business again and you enjoy everything about it.
Because really, when you have a business, You should love
everything about the business.
There are bits you prefer and bits you don't.
But ultimately, it should be, like, the whole thing you absolutely love.
A bit like a person.
We had an interview with somebody the other day and they used that analogy.
And ever since, it's really, like, stuck with me.
And gone, yeah, do you know what?
Like, it is like a relationship.
You don't just pick and choose the bits that you accept.
You kind of have to accept the whole thing, don't you?
Anke: Yeah, actually there's, there's somebody like, like actually a couple
of sort of coaches I know, they really talk about like, they, they, they
go very much sort of tune into their business sort of energetically and they
literally say, well, I treat it like, like it's got its own, like, they kind
of like, not like a person, but you know, like its own sort of energetic entity.
So then they literally have this conversation with their business, right?
It's this thing, it's this whole thing that you have a relationship with, right?
I think, and it's kind of like, Well, I have, I don't think I've ever
talked to my business, but you know, I talked to my dogs, but I haven't
really talked to my business, but it does make sense to kind of think like,
okay, it is a relationship, right?
So, and it's, it's something that is easy to overlook when all you think
about, I just want to help dogs.
Vicky: Yeah, absolutely.
And I think a business for a lot of people is the inconvenience part of it.
They're like, we just want to work with the dogs.
We just want to do the thing we're really good at.
And we totally appreciate that.
And we understand it.
And we felt the same.
But if you get all of these things right, you can love everything.
every part of it as much.
And, and it should be enjoyable because at the end of the day we do it for the,
for the love of everything about it.
And we've made that choice.
And so we should own that choice.
Anke: Absolutely.
And I think also to, to just, uh, embrace the learning journey, because
I feel a lot of, I see this, you know, like I'm, I'm a tech girl.
So it's like, uh, I see it.
A lot of people come as like, Oh, the tech does my head in and, and, Well,
most of it comes because it's out of your area of competence, right?
And nobody enjoys something you're no good at.
So like part of it is like, yeah, there is some stuff you have to learn
because you can keep this as a hobby.
You can help somebody else with their dog as a hobby.
If you want to turn it into a business, there's going to be some things.
And as you gain competence, you often enjoy something more.
Is that, is that something that you see?
Jo: Yeah, absolutely.
And I would say that it's.
It's, it's really interesting when you start looking at other people's
businesses as well, because you realize how, I don't know, I've certainly,
it's been like a bit of a learning journey for us as individuals as well
in going, realize just how much we.
We do get stuck in on all of these different parts of it and we'd not
necessarily realized it at the time when we were in the thick of it in the dog
training business but now we've kind of like applied everything into this
business we're like oh it's actually gone quite seamlessly because we've got
some knowledge and we and we know what we're doing more but I think it's it can
absolutely be a scary thing for people in general to to try something that
they're not necessarily wanting to do.
Like, there's still elements that, yeah, like Vicky said, like we're
not overly keen on doing the tech.
We can do, we can do the basic bits, but knowing, oh gosh, sorry, I'm drinking
a massive mug of tea because my voice has gone a bit croaky this morning.
So, anyone who's watching and you can't see my face when
I'm drinking, I apologize.
Um, When you are doing that work for your mission and that, and that purpose of your
business, you can start to forward project where you want your business to go.
And you can implement things for the short term.
So we know that we are going to have, um, we're going to grow this business
so that it's got a team working in it.
And we can then start to.
Divvy up some of the roles and give it to people who have got the specialism
in that so that it becomes a more efficient part of the business.
But in these early stages, and again, it totally depends on what type of
business you want to be running.
You may never want to have a team, or you may just naturally start growing and then
go, Oh, I actually need somebody now.
Um, so I think it's being mindful that your business will grow as a team.
you do and the more you learn and the more you implement things will change
and it's okay for it to change as well.
In fact it's quite exciting when it changes I think.
Anke: Yeah I think it's it's inevitable and it's wonderful
because it'd be boring if it didn't.
I was just thinking like I don't know like if I look back like 20 years
before oh no I wouldn't want to go back there you know I definitely want
to you know it's so much it's um yeah and it doesn't always have to be.
Perfect days every day.
Like, I think even as the, especially when, when you have these moments, like
literally just thinking of this email this morning, we're like, Oh, we've
got this launch coming up and that.
So it's like those little pressure pot moments.
You know, I think that's where a lot of insights come through as well.
When you see it's like, Oh, well actually, you know, time pressure.
Tell me about time pressure.
Cause I said, I read something in your email.
We said, Ooh, we love a bit of a deadline.
You know, I find it's like when there's time pressure, it's almost
like priorities become really.
Clearer.
Easier than if you're just kind of like, oh, you pick and choose one out randomly.
Vicky: Yeah, and it's like in that email it, we talked about juggling
or spinning a lot of plates.
Like, we are doing that at the moment, but it is strategic.
It's strategic juggling of balls or strategic spilling of plates.
It's not sustainable for a long period of time.
So what we're in at the moment is a lot of stuff.
Like, we're getting family members and friends being like, My God,
how much stuff have you got on?
But because we know there's an end point to it, because we know it isn't forever,
and if it was, we would absolutely be like, But we can kind of just get
through it day to day at the moment.
Um, and so all of these things that we've got coming up are like,
some things are very imminent.
So some of those deadlines are going to pass very quickly.
In fact, the book is going to be today.
Isn't it, Jo?
Off with the publisher today.
Yeah, the final draft is going to go off today.
So that will be one massive tick off that.
And so Because we know what we need to do, when we need to do it, and there is
that light at the end, at the end of the tunnel, that means that it's, it's not
just this stupid busyness that we're in for a long period of time, which, you
know, there are people who are in that day to day for like extended periods of
time, and this is where that burnout can happen, because they have no plan, they
have no strategy, they have no end point for things, and then they just want to
give up because they can't do it anymore.
And it's so sad because this industry is losing people every
day because of that burnout.
And because of that, I don't know what else to do.
I'm trying to like stick pins in things all the time and just firefight.
And they just have no clue how to, how to deal with it.
And I guess that's where we come in because this is what we love to help
people that are in that situation.
And to make them again, coming back to that love element again,
we want them to love that business because they started it with love.
So we want them to get that back again.
Anke: I love that.
I love that.
That's, that's just, yeah, it's such a beautiful space, just
beautiful place to land the plane.
So, you know, if anybody, well, not anybody, like a lot of people will
resonate with that because I, and there's also, it's like, you know what
I love about this, how leveraged it is for you to, you still help dogs.
You know, by, by helping the people who help dogs stick out
and build their businesses.
So I think it's that leveraged piece of it.
That it's even if you were to never actually work with dog training clients
again, you'd still help the dogs, right?
So I just, just love that.
So where can people go to find out about you?
Where can they get in touch, get on your email list, find out what you've got?
Vicky: So there are a couple of ways actually, if people want
to have a look at what we do.
Then have a look at our website caninebusinessacademy.
com.
So there's some information on there about obviously more about us and how
we do things, what we, um, how we work.
You can subscribe to our mailing list on there.
And then we've also got a Facebook community group,
which is really nice actually.
We're building a really nice group there.
Um, which if you search on Facebook CBA community, That will come up.
And so, yeah, if anybody's interested in, again, engaging more with us, we
do some live trainings in that group.
Um, you hear about things first in that group as well.
So yeah, any dog professionals that are just interested in wanting to have more
of a plan with their business, feeling a bit stuck and want to connect with other,
um, dog professionals in there, because that's something that we really, really
promote is that community and connection, which is lacking in the industry.
Anke: And so important, right?
Because it's so often that people will.
I feel they're battling.
I really saw this when I did my summit in February, and people were
in the room and they go, Oh my God, I can't believe there's all these
other people on the same path.
You know, and there was literally somebody says like, Oh, I've been, you
know, battling and especially they're all, you know, like fear free, force
free and they get a lot of slack so they get kind of attacked a lot so they feel
they, they, they're so passionate about.
Like, not using any, any, any harmful kind of approaches, and they feel
they're kind of yelling in a vacuum, they sort of feel it's like just me
against, like, the wind of everything.
So all of a sudden they're like, oh my god, like, I'm not the only one and
that is such a big piece, you know, when you know you're not, you're not alone
and what you're going through is, like,
Vicky: And it's a bit like dog owners, isn't it?
You know, dog owners, when they connect together and they're having the same
problems, it's like, Oh my God, I'm not the only person going through.
Yeah.
It makes such a difference.
And of course the other thing is our podcast.
So we've got our podcast, Let's Talk Dog Business, um, which we
have lots of episodes with just Jo and I chatting about, you know, all
sorts of things, but we have lots of amazing guests on there as well.
So we've got some, yeah, very well known dog trainers, um, and business
professionals and like all people from all walks of life, actually, because
there were lots of different angles that we come at from that podcast.
So yeah, if people want to learn more about us, that's probably the best way
because we're just on there chatting and, um, giving lots of, um, yeah,
tips and ideas and information away.
So, yeah.
Love that.
Well,
Anke: thank you so much.
This has been delightful and, um, yeah, let's just all help
dogs and their people, right?
So thanks so much for coming.
Thanks for having us.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so
other dog lovers can find the show.
If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs.
com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal
stories to warm your dog loving heart.
And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview,
I'd love an introduction.
Email me at Anke.
That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.