Well, today my guest is Father Luke Rowicki.
Uh, he's the chaplain at Cardinal Gibbons High School.
Father Luke completed two years of architectural studies at Texas A& M
University before joining the Seminary of the Legionnaires of Christ in 2009.
During his seminary years, he earned a bachelor's in philosophy and theology
and from Regina Apostolatorium Pontifical University in Rome, Italy.
Fr.
Luke spent three pastoral years in Washington, D.
C.
directing faith and leadership programs for the youth.
He was a three year catechism teacher at St.
San Salvador in Lauro Parish in Rome.
After being ordained a deacon, he helped direct a large youth organization in
Monterey, Mexico, while supporting students as a spiritual mentor at
the Irish Institute of Monterey.
Father Luke was ordained a priest in Rome on May 7th, 2022.
And as I mentioned before, he's currently the chaplain at Cardinal
Gibbons High School in Raleigh, North Carolina, where he accompanies students,
faculty, and families in their journey of faith and human flourishing.
Welcome Father Luke.
It's great to see you.
Great to be here, John.
It's fantastic.
So you, you are, uh, at Cardinal Givens High School here in Raleigh,
North Carolina, and you are blessed, I should say the school
is blessed to have you there.
And you serve there as their chaplain, and I just know all the great things
that are going on over at that school.
But let's talk, let's back up just a little bit here.
You entered the seminary in 2009.
Talk a little bit to our listeners about the role Catholic education played in
your formation and in your discernment.
Yeah.
So I grew up, I'm a third of six kids in a Catholic family and my parents
always made sure that we were enrolled at a Catholic school growing up.
So I think that had a major impact on.
my life just because it was always second nature to have Catholic education, to
pray at the beginning of classes, to have masses on, you know, the major
feast days in the church calendar.
so yeah, I think that was foundational for my Catholic upbringing.
And, I think another aspect of it that I think about quite a bit as now chaplain
of a Catholic high school is that while it was a Catholic school, I don't really
remember ever having close relationship with any priest on the campus.
And I got a little lost in my years of high school, especially.
And I think many times, just often how helpful it would have been if I would have
had kind of a trusted faith mentor in a priest to be able to go to with questions
I have, doubts I have about the faith.
kind of helped me understand why the church says no to certain things.
so also, while that was so helpful, I think there were also
certain things that were lacking.
And that has kind of motivated me to prepare myself to, I mean,
to, yeah, I guess be the best instrument of God's grace that I
can be for all the students and be approachable and be accessible to them.
Yeah, and I think, I think that's a great point because sometimes it's like
you, you, you know you want it, but when you have it there, it's like, oh
my goodness, this is such a blessing and such a, dare I call, resource to have.
But I mean, honestly, your goal is to help the students, grow in their
relationship with Christ and to, and to help them find their way.
And, uh, Recognizing in a school as large as yours, there's a lot of
people coming from a lot of different directions on that type of a thing.
Yes.
And, and one of the things I found most interesting in, in, you know, getting
to know you and, and your bio, and, and for those of you that, that don't know
that, I mean, you, you heard a little bit about Father Luke at the beginning.
But you've been able to serve and to minister worldwide even even as we
were talking kind of before recording over the summer You'll be doing some
mission work and things like that.
Yeah, and as Catholics, I think our worlds sometimes are so small anymore You know
in speaking, you know to a friend He said, you know, the the experiences that he's
enjoyed the most or when you when you were get to know other people and other
cultures outside of our own worldview.
Um, what have you taken from just, just your, your work across the
world, and maybe some of the, your favorite places that you've visited?
Yeah, um, gosh, a lot.
I, I felt spoiled throughout actually my life before joining the seminary,
becoming a legionnaire of Christ.
And then especially I think during this time, because I have been able to
travel a lot and live in some places that I never would have imagined.
So, just a tiny bit of background on that.
My dad, because of his job, we'd move around a lot.
So I was, you know, born in Louisiana.
And after that, the longest we ever lived somewhere was
five years, but that was rare.
It was usually like between two and three years.
Uh, so that brought us all around the United States, but also to Australia
when I was little, and I think that was, you know, one of the ways that
God went preparing me for my missionary life, because as a legionnaire of
Christ, like other religious groups, missionary groups, Uh, you're not
gonna be stuck in one diocese.
You're not gonna be stuck, you know, as, as parish priests feel called to serve in
their diocese and they will remain there.
a missionary vocation sort of implies, entails that you're willing to go
to another continent, learn a new language, adapt to a new culture.
So I think part of, yeah, God, God's way of calling me and preparing me
to be a legionary of Christ was that.
And then, yeah, you're exactly right.
As a legionary, I started in Connecticut, in Rome, in Washington, D.
C.
Uh, as well as once you're in Rome and in Europe, you have all these
awesome opportunities to, you know, go visit a Marian shrine like Lourdes or
Medjugorje, which I've been to both, or Fatima, uh, to, you know, attend a
youth festival in Salzburg, Austria to spend a month driving around Austria.
So, it helps you to, yeah, you gain a lot of perspective.
It's eye opening to see how, different cultures.
you know, live out their faith as a deacon in Mexico, again, a very Catholic
country, but they also have their, their style of, of worshiping the
Lord, of gathering young people, kind of the activities that attract them.
And, also, yeah, different perspectives, even senses of humor that I think has
just helped me um, not take my one way of looking at things too seriously.
I think that's something I'm extremely grateful for.
And then I, yeah, you can't overemphasize enough living in
Rome for six years, like being that close to the Vatican, to the Pope.
I was there when Pope Francis came out on the balcony for the first time.
I was there in St.
Peter's Square.
So like you're living the history of the church right in
front of you every single day.
so that just, yeah, fills you with gratitude, but also just a lot of,
hopefully healthy, holy pride in who we are as a Catholic Church and everything
that the Holy Spirit has done throughout these 2, 000 years, as a church.
Uh, so that's a huge privilege that I do not take for granted at all.
absolutely.
And, and I think living the culture, As opposed to just visiting it for a couple
of days is a much different experience because, you know, I can travel to
Europe for a week and go to church at a particular church or cathedral or whatever
I may attend Mass at, and I've got a snippet of that, but when you're living
it and you're truly, working with and, and each and every day and, and living in
that culture that, that gives you a much different perspective on things for sure.
Wow.
Yes, it was, I think it was that aspect that attracted me the most, that,
okay, I'm going to be in Italy six years, first of all, I really need to
be able to speak Italian after this.
And, and I really wanted to kind of get to the point where at least I
didn't feel so much like a tourist and again, that meant, you know,
getting out of your comfort zone.
I signed up to be a catechist at a local parish in Rome.
And, uh, again, those were just amazing experiences because every
culture has its, uh, advantages.
And also, I guess it's challenges when it comes to evangelization,
like these kids are living in the footsteps of countless saints and Pope.
Every street corner has.
You know, a St.
Barry there and you're just thinking why, why, like, why don't these kids get it?
Why aren't they more excited about their faith?
Why are they just going through the motions when you, you're literally like
you have Padre Pio's Gloves that are bloodstained with his stigmata at your
parish and you don't care, you know So it was like also has like that challenge of
okay They kind of do take it for granted and there were even kids in our Catechism
class that had never been inside St.
Peter's Basilica And it was 10 minutes walking distance from their house
And, and, and for us, we would jump on that opportunity in about one second.
Yes.
It would be like, how quickly I'll get in line right now, you
know, to, to go tomorrow morning.
Well, and, and I think that your work in terms of, You know, having to move
around a lot and, and, and assimilating to cultures and getting to know what's
going on, that's got to help you connect with, with students at the school, because
you've got kids that are very outgoing.
You've got kids that may be very introverted.
talk about how that, has influenced you, because I know sometimes for our
Catholic schools, you know, we want to teach our kids about the faith,
but sometimes we, we maybe don't know how to reach those kids who, Maybe a
little more introverted, or maybe don't want to outwardly live their faith.
And tell me about that experience that you've had in your, in your
travels, and how that's impacted the work that you're doing right now.
Yeah.
I, um, I think I've had just a lot of good examples.
I'm a, I'm the beneficiary of a preach priest reaching out to me, going out
of, getting out of, going out of his way to reach out to me, remembering
my name after I'd met him once.
So I went to Texas a and m University, still kind of in a phase of just
distancing myself from God and my faith.
And I was leaving mass one day on a Sunday.
And he called out to me as I walked out the doors towards my car by name.
And I think because he did that, I was then much more open to then, you
know, what he had to say after that.
And he invited me to a talk and that ended up being life changing for me.
So, I also just, I try to, um, not let different fears or, um, I guess, yeah,
like comforts or I don't, I don't ever want to be comfortable with, uh, like
the few students that maybe have that spiritual sensibility, sensitivity, and
they're already coming, because I want to reach out to those kids that were like
me, that didn't feel a connection with the church, and you're right, there are
the extroverts, and they're, maybe they, it comes easier to them to try something
new, but also the introverts, I think everyone, I know everyone needs Christ,
and I know everyone wants to feel like, you know, someone cares about them, and
is willing to take the time to answer their questions, so I think it's, yeah,
just, you really have to get creative and think outside the box, come up with.
Activities are going to attract, you know, the, the different sorts
of people, but then I think even more than that, uh, something that
I've learned that I try to apply is just meeting them where they're at.
So if they're athletes, I'm going to go to their games and cheer them on.
If they're in drama, if they're in music, orchestra, same thing.
Art, there's an art show I'm going to try to, You know, get to know a
few of them and, really take time to appreciate what they're doing, what they
feel like is important for their life.
And then once, you know, you've made that connection at just human relationship,
then now, I think they're going to be more open to hearing about what you
think is important, which is the faith.
And kind of a combination of doing a lot of different activities.
And again, thinking outside the box to attract different types of
personalities and, and sensibilities.
And also getting out of your comfort zone a lot, because it's, yeah, it's,
it's just, again, very easy to stay kind of between, you know, your office, your
campus ministry area, and just kind of wait for kids to come to you, but as
Pope Francis is always, always, always emphasizing so much and insisting is that
we need to leave, like, right, he says today, it's like, you know, the, instead
of leaving the 99 to go after the one, it's like, leaving the one to go after
the 99 because the church has just lost so many young people and and so like that's
just always a a real a motivation for me to leave the one or actually as I saw
it referenced you know recently take the one with you and go out to the 99 yeah
use the buddy system.
Come with me.
We're going to go get the 99.
You know what I mean?
and I think that that approach right there, first and foremost, taking a
personal interest in the students and starting there is so important because,
I mean, I'm growing up at a time where, you know, we would go to a Bible school
in the summer and everything like that, and it was like, come on, everybody's got
to stand up and everybody's got to dance and everybody's got to do this, and you
had kids that were going to ham it up, and then I'll do it in front of everybody,
and then others who that's the most uncomfortable thing in the world for them.
And I don't want to come back tomorrow because they made me get
up and dance in front of everybody or whatever the case might be.
So I think that's so important to meet them where they're at, so that you can
make a bigger impact in their lives.
And, and as you just said, going to what is interesting to them.
is such a huge impact, uh, because then they get that sense of, this
guy really cares for me and is interested in what I'm interested in.
Okay, let me hear a little bit more about what he has to say.
Uh, well, well done is better than well said.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Now, the other interesting piece is, as our Catholic schools nowadays, we have
students in our schools who are non Catholic or may not believe in God at all.
And what's your approach to somebody who may seem unreachable or maybe
expresses zero interest in the faith.
You talk a lot about how do you, how you meet students where they are.
How do you meet them when they are, when it can be rather intimidating?
Or how do you break the ice for them without coming on too strong when they've
not only expressed not an interest, but maybe even a little bit of pushback at it?
Yeah.
I think so.
those are, I think some of the most interesting and, uh, students because,
uh, it's, it's almost exciting, like being a missionary priest and you
kind of, we have kind of ingrained in us, you know, God has given us this
desire to reach out specifically to really to those kinds of students.
And again, to take the one that's maybe already into their faith
and help them as well to see like, Hey, this is a real opportunity.
And that person needs Jesus just as much as any of us do.
so I actually get excited and I have like a passion for reaching out to those
kids that, you know, at first glance are not going to walk into a church
and they have their prejudices and, and ideas of what they think the church
teaches and what the church is all about and who a priest is and who Jesus is.
so again, it's meeting them where they're at.
And.
Maybe like kind of breaking down those prejudices, like, and how do you do that?
I think really first is always on kind of a human level.
You show them that you care.
you know, like right now, Spikeball, that, you know, game where you gather
around a little Ned and you're, you know, you're playing that, that
has been a huge kind of gateway
seen you out there playing with the kids too.
I mean, you're, you're, you're diving and everything.
It's all on.
Oh yeah, I hold nothing back.
So, yeah, I guess, you know, as I speak to myself personally,
there's gifts that I feel like God has given me for that purpose.
So I like music.
You can reach students through that.
I like, you know, sports and I'm competitive, so I
reach students through that.
and those might be kids that were involved in faith, but a
lot of them aren't necessarily.
They're just out there to have a good time.
And sure, if the priest wants to jump into our game, maybe
it's kind of awkward at first.
But then, you know, although you realize, oh, I didn't realize
priests could, you could have a normal conversation with a priest.
I didn't, I didn't realize priests had a life outside of
praying and going to church.
And I, I had that false idea growing up.
I thought priests were in churches all day long.
but we want to bring people into church, and so you have
to go out and, and find them.
And so, We've also just on campus, because with the campus ministry team
there, given spiritual life team, organized some events, kind of, in our
minds, catered towards those students.
Again, it's not, they're not coming in droves, you know, looking for church
teaching, but the idea is that we can have honest, open discussions, and that
there's no question that's, you know, out of bounds, so to speak, that they
can't ask like, Hey, I don't understand why the church teaches us about pro
life issues, or about dating, or about
Yeah, whatever it might be about, like, Catholic doctrine or, like, obligations
that the faith, you know, teaches.
I don't understand that.
I don't agree with it.
Uh, we, we open up that space and that forum so that those kind of students,
you know, once you've connected with them, hopefully then they'll
come and then they feel comfortable.
Exploring these questions, you know, in a place where they're going to
get the truth about the church, um, hopefully, because there's so many,
um, you know, opinions out there that just do not do justice to our amazing
richness of our Catholic tradition.
And I think by you making it a point to go out to where the kids are, you
know, like you said, the spike ball or maybe in the cafeteria or, you know,
these events that you're talking about.
You know, I had the chance to interview Bishop Byrne from, Springfield,
Massachusetts a couple weeks ago.
And he said, I'm the bishop of a diocese, not behind a desk.
Okay, so I want to be out with the students and I want
to be out there with them.
And I think your approach within the school as a chaplain of the school is, is
really one in the same where it's like you can just sit in your office all day and
wait for kids to come to you, but how much more powerful is that when you go out and
say, Hey, look, can I join you for lunch?
Hey, can I jump in this game with you?
Hey, can I play this card game with you?
Or whatever the case might be, And then I think what also is, is big on that is
I'll be willing to bet you that maybe there's three kids at that table who know
you, but maybe there's two that don't.
And now it's when that guy leaves, who was that?
What's he all about?
You know, what's going on there?
And then obviously that door opens up for more of an invitation to come back.
So I think that's huge right there.
Yes, yeah, exactly.
And again, it does take kind of getting in your comfort zone, because you,
you know, You're, you know, it's a little bit of a risk, but there was
something that, uh, I will never forget.
It was a, we have, you know, once a year as legionaries of Christ, we'll get
together with all the other legionaries and Regnum Christi members, which is
associated with legionaries of Christ.
And everyone doing youth work will gather and have some meetings,
uh, discussions about how we can.
Continue serving the people that were called to minister to better.
And there was a panel of high school students and there was
just kind of a last chance.
Hey, question said, Hey, you have, you know, we have five more minutes, everyone.
Let's go around and say, what's one thing you want?
Each of these priests and lay people and consecrated women,
men and women to walk away with.
And this one girl I'll never forget it.
She said, don't be afraid of us.
And we need, we need mentors, but we're probably not going to, you know,
run telling you that we need you.
We're not going to like beg you for help, but we need your help.
Like we don't, we don't have life figured out as 15, 16, 17 year olds.
So don't be afraid of us.
And so I remember many times, like, looking at a group of students and,
you know, stereotypes you're looking at, I'm like, there, there's no way
they're interested in what I have to say.
And then I think in my head, don't be afraid of us.
And I go directly to that group of students and I
say, hey, how are you doing?
And those are always the best conversations.
So.
and probably the ones that leave the biggest impact on them.
And, and I've seen that too with, priests that we have at, at
say an elementary school level.
There is there, when you're not used to being around kids, there's probably
nothing more intimidating than a high schooler or a kindergartner.
You know what I mean?
Because, because they'll just tell you how it is.
You know what I mean?
Uh, if you've got something on your shirt, a kindergartner will tell you.
You got a spot on your shirt or whatever the case might be and they
just and they do it out of complete love Uh, but they're just the cutest
things in the world So, uh, they're as I always say There's nothing probably
more intimidating than this the high schoolers or the kindergartners Uh for
for people that aren't used to being around them as as somebody who works
with with the youth What advice do you have for teachers or principals?
about fostering or and encouraging vocations with without coming on too
strong because you and I both know the kids can smell the lie from 10 miles away
okay if you're not sincere about what it is that that you're bringing to them
they're going to tune you out in about 15 seconds okay it might not take that long
so what advice do you have for for that teacher out there or or the the principal
the new principal or the principal it's been for a while you know, obviously we
want to encourage vocations, we want to encourage because there may be somebody
in each of our schools right now who, much like you, is, is, gets that spark
in them, that, that interest, that hears God's calling to them, but if that Little
flame is not fanned to help it grow.
Uh, we don't want it to burn out.
So what advice would you have for somebody who's working in a Catholic school right
now to be able to foster that vocation?
Because we all know the vocation could be, you know, something, uh,
going into the seminary or, or a convent, or it could be a deacon.
It could be, there's a lot of different roles out there, uh, in religious life.
What advice would you have for those people out there?
I.
I'm convinced that just the more we can help, um, all the students,
all the youth to have kind of high intensity spiritual experiences,
and then you let God do the rest.
So, I brought students to World Youth Day last summer.
Those kids, those 13 students from Cardinal Gibbons are never going to
forget that experience of their lives.
They were one of 1.
5 million young people in Portugal with Pope Francis, seeing that the
faith, the church is not dying out.
It is absolutely not dying out and it's so exciting.
And then on top of that, you're seeing, you're meeting a young person who
says, Hey, I'm going to be a priest or I'm discerning the priest or I'm
discerning being a sister and you're just exposed to the richness of the church.
Uh, I brought students up to the seminary, for a high school guys retreat.
you bring them on mission trips like we're doing.
there's, you can also do local missions.
Not everyone's going to have the money and the time to travel to Europe, right?
But you can do local mission work.
But.
Kind of exposing them to the church, to the faith, getting them involved in some
type of giving ministry, um, that awakens in them something like even being a camp
counselor at a Catholic, you know, retreat or something, you're sharing your faith.
Gibbons, we do a really good job of that just because we have so many peer led
retreats that you are leading middle schoolers or underclassmen sharing
your faith, you come back on fire.
And so that flame is, is fanned, right?
And then And then you have to accompany them after that.
So I guess not enough to just bring them on these retreats because
like we all know, there's like, you know, that you have the, you
know, big emotional high afterwards.
And I love my faith and I love Jesus.
And then very quickly the world can smother that, you know, and just that our
the noise comes back,
Exactly.
All the noise comes back.
And, and so you have to accompany that person, help them reflect, you know,
deeper in a deeper way on that experience.
Um, but we do have to kind of get them out of, yeah, disconnect from their
normal routine to hear that voice of God and to have that experience,
to let, give God that space to speak to them in that deeper way.
yeah.
And I, and then you're, you just really have to trust like every single
person on this planet has a vocation.
So.
Really, just to be genuine, to say, hey, like, I would love for, you know, 10 guys
this year to say, I want to be a priest, but I can't enforce the vocation, no one
can enforce the vocation, so, there's no point in me even trying, but if If
someone does mention, Hey, I'm open to it, or I'm interested in it, then I will
absolutely make it a point to get him to a seminary, to experience it, get him to
be a leader at a retreat, to help, you know, okay, this is what a priest does.
You're sharing your faith, you're leading others, you're helping them grow.
Is there some resonance there?
Like, like does it, does it fit for you?
And then again, just walk with them, continue to walk with them.
And then, you know, some, it happens really quick.
In my, in my case, within two weeks of meeting the priest and inviting me to the
sermon retreat, I was at the seminary, other guys, it's years and years.
And so it's, you have to be willing to patiently walk with, you know, Each
individual person and never, like, never make it about numbers or, um,
never make it about yourself either.
Obviously.
So,
Absolutely.
And, and, and when sometimes people hear the call very young, sometimes much later
in life, uh, but, but as what's important is they hear the call and talk to me
about, uh, the experience with the kids at World Youth Day, because I know one of the
experiences my wife had the opportunity to do was to go to World Youth Day, uh,
when it was out in Denver, I believe.
And what's ironic is, is that, a few years back we were, we were
having dinner with, uh, Father Phil Hurley, who was a pastor at the time.
And the two of them started talking about their World Youth Day experience and
realized not only were they both at the same World Youth Day, But their, their
tracks had taken them to the same spots to kind of in the same bus caravan, from
the East Coast out to, to, uh, Denver.
And, and so the stories they were able to share, they, you remember this
guy who, yeah, I remember that guy.
Now did the two of them ever, no.
But because they were there at the same time and experienced the same
thing, uh, they might as well been sitting next to each other for, for
the, for the time that they were there.
Talk about what you saw from the students and what they took from
that experience at World Youth Day.
Oh yeah.
I'd love to.
I, it has been one of the highlights of my priesthood, to accompany these students.
it was something that I was convinced of because I went as a
seminarian to Krakow, 2016, and that experience was just spectacular.
It was so powerful because I realized you bring young people
there and then God starts to work.
And so every, you know, you're in conferences, mass, concerts, there's
like a whole festival feel to it, but there's a lot of downtime where you're
just eating with them, walking with them, braving the elements with them, you
know, it's just like, it's an adventure.
Every day you're kind of backpacking through these towns and all
these just conversations start happening spontaneously about.
God's plan for their lives.
And so, all along the way there in Poland, uh, in Portugal, sorry, these
students were meeting, uh, other young people from other countries.
I think that was kind of the highlight for them.
Uh, obviously being close to the Pope and just being in the sea of Catholics.
But then you kind of just like little by little you saw them just, I don't know, on
really like their hearts are set on fire.
And so the fears and like maybe like self esteem issues or um, worrying about
what other people think just kind of fade away because what we have in common
is something so deep and profound which is that we all believe in Jesus Christ.
And so differences didn't matter anymore and you weren't comparing
yourself to other people which high schoolers do all the time.
We all do but especially high schoolers.
And so now they're suddenly just, they're free and they're free to love.
They're free to share their gifts with each other.
Uh, again, the, the eyeopening experience of, um, you know, being
with people from so many other countries, but for the same reason.
And then, honestly, to see God work in their hearts and their young
hearts because the priesthood came up and being a missionary came up and
dedicating your life to God, well, was suddenly on their minds because that's
what they were hearing constantly.
That's the people they were meeting and they were surrounded by all of a sudden,
you're You know, right next to all the sisters of Mother Teresa, Missionaries
of Charity, they, they literally, one night, appeared from behind a bush,
and there were about 30 of them.
And suddenly, I turn around, and all of our Given students are in a one on one
conversation with a Missionary of Charity.
Where does that ever happen, besides at a World Youth Day, right?
Like, haha,
it's not happening on Raleigh.
yeah, I know.
So, it was just, there were so many unexpected, unpredictable
things that occurred.
Almost at every turn, that's hard to describe, but if you can imagine like
a big music festival or, you know, something like that, but just everyone
there is Catholic and is open and sharing their faith and sing, literally
singing and dancing as you walk down a normal road in downtown Lisbon.
there's just something strange, like what is it that's making
us so joyful, if not our faith?
And so like, suddenly the things that, again, the world that smothers that
because you're busy, because it's not cool, because, the temptations that are
out there, and like, you're wasting time on your phone, all of that is put to
the side, and it's just a celebration of what it means to be Catholic.
It is an incredible experience that I'm going to continue taking students to, so.
Okay, so now let's talk about the other side of it.
So now, in order to get students to go, or to be allowed to go, you
have, let's talk to the parents for a minute, because, oh my god,
where's the next World Youth Day at?
Next summer is a Rome Jubilee for Youth 2025,
Okay.
and then South Korea will be the officially next World
Youth Day in 2027, in the
Okay.
So, so now what about the parents?
I don't know.
I don't feel comfortable sending my kids to this event.
It's overseas.
It's there's all this going on.
What, what do you tell the parents out there to kind of put their mind at ease?
Um, okay, well, a story comes to mind.
So we were there one evening, we're all, so you always stay together, you have, you
know, one adult chaperone for every five or six kids, and you're constantly making,
you know, headcounts, you're traveling together, you never let a kid off on his
own, but we're walking down this, like, kind of main drag, and there's all these,
you know, You know, policemen and women lined up in front of this building and
you just, we just started talking to 'em.
Actually, our, our kids decided they would put on a dance show for 'em again,
only half in the world, you think.
Um, and, you know, all these policemen and women are there laughing and clapping
and then you, you know, start, I started talking to one of them and he was
mentioning to me and this other, You know, got a young man next to me, about how
it's been the easiest week of their lives.
To think that 1.
5 million young people descend on the same city for the same event.
And there's no crime.
Like, it's just like the safest place in the world.
So, of course, with the Pope coming and, you know, all these
bishops and connoisseurs around the world and all these young
people, they want it to be safe.
So they go all out with security.
There are metal detectors for certain events and things like that.
Uh, they're checking bags as you walk into certain arenas.
But, just the fact that all those policemen, like, they're,
they're there, they're ready.
But they've been bored in a good way, right?
All, all week long because it's just everyone there is, is gathered for,
good, wholesome, spirit filled fun,
we like it when our law enforcement are bored.
You know what I mean?
That's, that's, that's a good thing.
We like that.
We want that.
So, and we appreciate all of our law enforcement officers, but I'm
sure they would much rather be bored as well in terms of crime.
I want to go back to something you talked about a few minutes ago,
because you talked about the noise.
And sometimes it can be hard to hear God's calling when
there's so much noise around us.
And I remember Matthew Kelly did something, On one of his, uh, audio, uh,
tapes or whatever you want to call it.
I'm showing my age there when I say tapes, but you know,
audio recordings, I should say.
And he just says, with all the noise, the static that's coming
in and everything like that, it can be hard to hear the message.
With technology so fast moving, there's so much that gets missed.
How do you help kids hear the call to just stop and unplug and just sit in silence?
When they're so used to just 24 7 noise coming at them.
Yeah, you have to, it's tough.
I'm not, I mean.
That's tough, I hope someone one day figures that out, I think young people
sort of just have to discover for themselves, and maybe it's just like
providing opportunities where they, they can, they can experience that contrast.
So, we did a silent retreat.
Um, I know you know that.
And, um, so, and that was an experience where they were totally disconnected
from their phones, but also the spiritual exercises experience is
that it's really, it's you and God.
And so the priest is there, you know, kind of leading you through scripture
and there's this whole, strategy, spiritual strategy and purpose, purposeful
itinerary, spiritually speaking, you know, from the beginning to the end.
But really like those students that went on that retreat, they said this retreat
was not fun, I'm so grateful for it and they still bring it up months later.
and so they themselves experienced, okay, the difference between me
being on my phone all day and then the three days that I was without my
phone, I chose to leave it, you know, turn it off and leave it in a box and
just the depth of that experience.
And I think that again, we have to kind of wake them up to the alternative because,
you know, it's It's they're glued to it.
It's also like their security when they're awkward, when they don't want to talk to
someone, they, you can just lose yourself in your, in your little virtual world.
And, uh, it's, it's, it's definitely a fallback.
It's easy to do that.
So, you kind of need to help them lead them outside of their comfort zone.
And it's really just like show, don't tell in the sense of like, you have
to let them experience it because they're just not going to believe it.
They, they don't, they can't believe that a world without cell phones is
actually better and more advantageous and beneficial for human, human, yeah,
humankind, you know, so, yeah, I think kind of being a witness to it, maybe
ourselves as well as adults, that we're not glued to our phones, that we also
have silence in our lives, that we're not constantly, Just consuming more
media ourselves, because then we can be, we're not hypocrites, you know,
we can be faithful, uh, you know, give testimony to that, witnesses to that.
So, I would say, yeah, providing the contrast, even if it's for a short
period of time, but forcing it.
Um, kind of, and not, not, uh, going back on that, you know, so if we're going to
retreat without cell phones, you make that very clear from the beginning.
Tell them about the advantages of it, how you're going to form these bonds.
I think that's a big one that they kind of look, we look in our, through our phones
for connections with people, but they're very rarely meaningful connections.
And so what they're searching for is the meaningful connection.
And hopefully we, as adults mentors, we can help you find it.
You just have to turn that phone off.
And so what they desire, we kind of know the human heart, hopefully,
and we always can know it better.
And just appeal to the human heart, appeal to that desire for
connection, for, true friendship.
Yep.
And to have the, the, um, the time and space to, to think and to, you know,
rest and to, um, away from all the noise.
every heart aches for that.
It's just that it's harder to, to kind of be in touch with that deeper
desire and yearning that we have.
I, one of the things I found very interesting was speaking with a friend
of mine this past week, and he's a very outgoing person, probably one
of the most outgoing people I know.
And, you know, I said, what, what, how do you do that?
How do you, how do you, you know, be so outgoing with people?
And, and his answer was one that was really interesting to me.
He said, I know my story.
I want to hear yours.
Hmm.
if I'm just rattling off stuff about me, but not getting to know
about you, what does that do?
He said, I know what my story is.
I want to hear what your story is.
And by me doing that, I get to know you.
And he said, he's made friends all over the world as a result of that.
And I think that's something right there, that sometimes we have
to be around those two or three people that we really know well.
And I don't want to branch outside of this little group or I got to
be on my phone because I got to be talking and texting with the people
that aren't with me right now.
When there's these meaningful connections that are just right in
front of us, but we just have to take the time to learn their story.
Yes.
I, I love that.
It reminded me too of the, I'm reading, rereading, uh, St.
Francis.
It's, it's, that's the title of this biography by Chesterton.
And, uh, He said that St.
Francis kind of had, again, like that kind of charisma that attracted so
many people to leave their comfortable lives and take on a very austere,
difficult lifestyle as Franciscans.
And how did he do it?
And he said, Chester Dana was amazing with words, right?
But he, he described that most people live in a kingdom where they
are, they reign in your kingdom.
So like, it's like, I live in my world and my world revolves around me.
He described St.
Francis's approach to life as St.
Francis is in a kingdom where everyone else is royalty and he's the jester.
In a similar way, he is so fascinated with everyone else around him.
The joy that he has is like authentic and genuine.
There's a fascination with the world around him.
So that brings him to desire that connection and to get to know people.
obviously he's had a way better than I just did, but it was, it's such a
interesting image that I've, you know, just the last couple of weeks had in
my mind, uh, because we can, Yeah, make ourselves out to be the most important
when, and we're just missing out on all those opportunities, like you mentioned.
Yeah, and I think, as I read in a book a couple years ago, when we
use the word friend as a verb more than a noun, uh, that's problematic.
Uh, on Facebook, we, we, I friended you.
I, I, you know, that's a verb, okay?
Uh, when you're friends with somebody, it should be a noun, and
it should be a personal connection.
I, I don't care who you are, but I see people on Facebook with
two and three thousand friends.
I don't care who you are.
They probably don't know two or three thousand people, so it's those,
it's those meaningful connections, I think, that are just so deep.
You, you've worked with youth, not only, uh, here in Raleigh,
but all over the world.
What's something that you've learned?
Your, your, uh, something that you would want to share With everybody
out there that's listening to this, in working with the youth,
that may surprise people to know.
I've just sensed and realized that young people are thirsty for the
truth, and I think that's surprising.
Maybe it's not, but I think it's surprising because You just hear so
much, negativity, like when it's like comes to young people today, they're
all lost and they're all leaving the church and no one cares anymore.
And the church has to get with the times and kind of in a sense that like, you
know, it's, we've already lost the battle.
And I just think we've kind of stopped fighting the battle.
And, we have to get the narrative out there.
That's from Christ and from the good news from the gospel and keep
sharing that narrative because as much as we think they don't care,
it's just because they don't hear it.
The truth of it.
And so.
They are very thirsty, and that's why, I'm so encouraged every day as I walk
through those doors of the school, because Again, we know how God made us.
We, he made every human person in his image and likeness for him to know him,
love him, and then want to serve him.
So, there's no exception to that.
People might be turned off because of bad experiences.
Uh, because again, because of all the noise, they just,
they're deaf to that voice.
so we have every reason to be hopeful, that if we just can find a
way to communicate in an authentic.
way, that the kids are going to, they desire it and they're, they're
going to accept it and they're going to be transformed by it.
I just witnessed that thirst all the time.
And, and the, the interesting part is, is that I think we've had six people come
into the church this year at Gibbons.
And where does that come from?
Like you're in high school, you should, your mind, like we think, I
think as adults is on parties, on, you know, girlfriends, boyfriends, on.
success in college and career.
How is it that these six students, I think it's at least six, have come
and like, are making, actually taking those steps to go into RCIA, are
getting baptized and confirmed in the church, or want to receive the
sacraments, if there's not that thirst deep down, that profound thirst that
when it's just, for so many years, like meeting junk and garbage that's out
there in the And it's not satisfied.
It eventually is going to have to turn to God and say, like, I think
I'm missing out on, on what's true and truly satisfying and fulfilling.
so yeah, we have, we have a lot of hope there.
Um, John Paul II in, um, one of his documents, I remember him saying
that, uh, we as missionaries, and that's all of us because as
Catholics, the church is a mission.
we have to trust that the Holy Spirit.
is already there before we arrive at that doorstep or arrive at that
person to talk to that conversation, has already prepared the way.
And so as you knock on that door of that person's heart and you're going to
bring that conversation, you're going to try to invite them to your activity
or to youth group or to whatever it is.
Just trust and know that the Holy Spirit has already been there.
He's already prepared that terrain for you then for that seed to fall.
they're thirsty.
And I think that's just all about surrendering.
Uh, and just knowing that, uh, I always say, God has a plan, and
his plan will be much better than anything I could ever come up with.
And so, just trusting in, in what God has in store for us, and just
knowing that, boy, when you see the, the end product, boy, you're gonna be,
You're going to be blown away by it.
And so, uh, well, I can't thank you enough for taking the time
today to sit down with me.
I've, I've so enjoyed this conversation and, and getting to know you.
And I know that the, the ministry work that you're doing at Cardinal
Gibbons is absolutely outstanding and seeing a lot of hearts.
Touched and students growing in their faith and, uh, that that can only be
kudos to you for that and the entire team at Cardinal Gibbons and so, please
know you're all will be in my prayers for continued success and you have my
support if you need anything at any point.
Thank you, John.
It's been a pleasure as well having this conversation with you and sharing
these ideas and kind of brainstorming a little bit together how to continue
reaching out to our young people.
So thanks for the invitation.
Absolutely.
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