>> Mercedes: Foreign.
Welcome to episode six of the AI
Church Toolkit podcast. This is the
podcast where we empower church leaders with tools for
faithful ministry in the digital age. I'm
Mercedes.
>> Peter: And I'm Peter. Together we explore how faith and
technology intersect, guided by the
baptismal covenant.
>> Mercedes: And today we'll be taking a slightly different
approach as we have a, uh,
discussion about how we've managed the changes
around AI, uh, within our
congregations. So we'll have
some open question and answer and
exploring processes about each of our
experiences within our churches and in our
communities.
>> Peter: And Mercedes, you led a very intentional process with
your own congregation, which I admire deeply. And
so we're really going to focus a lot on that
experience of yours today. Are you ready
to dive in?
>> Mercedes: Let's go.
>> Peter: All right, so, uh, why don't you start by talking us, uh,
through an overview of the change process that
you experienced with your congregation and then I'll
have some questions for you and we can discuss, uh,
it further in a bit.
>> Mercedes: Okay. So I'm going to kind of start with,
uh, a high level overview as I have explored
AI in general. And I do think it's probably helpful
at this point to say that, uh, because of my previous
career in technology, that
implementing systems,
um, software, uh, business
processes, business process improvement is kind
of, uh, part of my
core skill set. And
so I was very intentional about
approaching this with my church. You
know, when all the news hype came out in
2023, uh, I did some initial experimenting
with AI on my own. Uh, but that
was mostly just playing around
with, uh, some of the features. I
avoided the sermon writing thing because there was so
much chatter about that. But I
did attend the first Try Tank webinar,
uh, on the use of AI to generate
ideas for your church around
context. And, uh, I did
appreciate that, uh, Father Lorenzo
included panelists from BTS that discussed the potential
use in sermons. And at that time,
you know, the focus was, well, to get away from the
blank page, uh, for brainstorming, for
outlining ideas. Um, but when I
talk to my own peers, I
heard a lot of pushback. There was Discomfort around using
AI in
2024. So last summer, right before
we met, I did bring it up with the
Vestry, uh, as I
was planning on attending the AI summit,
ah, which was in August last year.
And so I also mentioned it in the
announcement at that time, since I'd be traveling and out of the
office, uh, that we would. I was just, I was
going to the summit to learn more about AI.
And then after the Summit, my use
increased significantly. I learned quite a bit there.
It's like, oh, oh, well, this is cool.
And so I began, uh,
to revisit it at Vestry.
I, uh, mention it at announcements.
Probably about once a month. We have
continued discussion, uh, at Vestry with very
specific examples. I've also held an
open forum between the services
for discussion of concerns and
feedback. And that worked really well
because a professor from our local college who is on
their AI Ethics committee, uh,
is a member of the church and also came and
played devil's, uh, advocate.
And then, uh, now
we're, uh, actually introducing an
AI Responsible use
policy, uh, with, uh, to
start to put what we're thinking down on paper
to manage the expectations. And I should
mention that after the summit, once I
started exploring it for sermon
use, I, uh, was transparent, uh,
in my announcements to say that, uh, at
times I was using AI for that, uh, so that
folks would be able and invited
as much conversation or
feedback, uh, as people wanted to provide.
So we are right there at that edge. I'm
thinking at the next Vestry meeting, we'll probably finalize
the responsible use policy.
>> Peter: Great. Okay. That's. That's exciting.
Um, it's
funny. Policies, uh, can be a
bit of a drag. But also they're so helpful if you just have
clarity and transparency about,
uh, what the policy is and everybody knows and we're all
on the same page.
So do you want to go back and talk a bit more about
how you introduced the idea of using AI to
your parish and what language or framing you found
to be most helpful with them?
>> Mercedes: Yes, and I actually kind of fell into it because I had
reached out to Father Lorenzo Labrija
at Try Tank about some other technology
questions, and he invited me to the summit at
that point. And so I used
that to frame as kind of like in a restaurant. They call
it a soft opening that, uh, when
you open for a few days, unofficially, before your
grand opening. And
attending the AI Summit gave me kind of a
soft opening opportunity to say, this is
going on. It's being sponsored by
an Episcopal organization,
and, um, I am going
to learn about it and see
what's out there, uh, and
specifically talking about with my
congregation as
we navigate decline, uh,
what, uh, AI may or may not be
able to help with, uh, either in
cost savings or, uh, new
ideas or wherever it would go. So
that was kind of my opportunity to
initially start the conversation
with the sense that I was going to a
legitimate source to learn about it.
>> Peter: Sure. Yeah. Soft openings are great because Then you can sort of test
the water. I imagine you get a little bit of a
sense of, okay, you know, this is the, uh,
temperature in the room about this. This issue in my
context. And have, uh, some initial
conversations.
>> Mercedes: Yeah.
>> Peter: Um, so about these, uh, initial
conversations and reactions, were there any ones that
surprised you, either in a positive or a negative
way?
>> Mercedes: Yes, actually, when I mentioned it to
Vestry, uh, that I'd like to go on this trip, uh,
and that I asked first,
what do you all know about AI and what
concerns do you have? And they were like,
we're not worried about AI. Why?
Well, what have you heard in the news?
And somebody said, I guess I'd be a little
worried about privacy concerns. And I
said, okay, what about, um,
in the church? And they're like.
To be honest, I think, uh, sometimes
as clergy, we are.
We. We are getting information that we
don't realize that the
congregations don't see as often
as we do. So until
I said, well, what do y'all think about AI
and sermon writing? Because I hear a lot about
that. They were like, I don't
know. I. I guess don't plagiarize.
How does that work? What does it do? And so
really the biggest part of it was there was a
complete lack of knowledge and information.
Ah. Because they just hadn't had a reason to explore it
before.
>> Peter: Sure. Wow. Okay. Yeah.
>> Mercedes: Um, how did your
first chat go?
>> Peter: Oh, man. Um, it was a bit different.
I, uh, definitely experienced some
pushback. And
that's interesting. You know, every context is going to be different.
And I love that you, despite, uh, having, you
know, this openness to it, you, uh, still
went through the whole intentional process, uh, that you
did.
Uh, we talked about, um, but, yeah, so in my own experience,
there are a variety of
opinions and people have a lot of, uh,
ethical and moral questions about using
generative AI, many of which we've talked about on
this podcast already. Um, in a general
sense, uh, there were two
parishioners I can think of who were,
uh, outspoken about it.
One maintained that AI use should be
disclosed whenever it's been used.
And I,
like, want to honor that and also
understand that it's complicated, um,
because, you know, there's. Whenever I'm
using generative AI, it's not just like the
AI creates a finished product on its own. There's always
this back and forth. Um, and so the thing
that has, uh, worked for me is to
say, uh, that, like, I'm maintaining full responsibility for
whatever I say or share or write, whether it's with assistance
from AI or not. And,
you know, I want people to know that they're talking to me
and people, uh, whether I, you know, used an
AI to help me write an email or not, they're. They're
talking to me and constantly giving the
disclaimer. My concern would be that it would be misleading
because people would, you know, if they don't have
familiar familiarity with AI, they
might be led to think that this is the AI talking, not
Peter. Can I really trust this? When in fact it's know,
my job to retain, uh, full
responsibility. And. And we'll talk about that more at a later
question. But.
So that was one. One parishioner and another
parishioner maintained that AI shouldn't be used at all.
I, uh, think for a variety of reasons. And
I've, you know, had this discussion several, uh,
times with various, uh, folks and
I, in this, you know, mostly with people who are
not members of my congregation. Um, I've told this particular
parishioner I'd be glad to talk about it in detail.
And they haven't followed up. So obviously there's more work
to be done there. And I think, uh, you've led a more thorough
process, which is why we're focused primarily on
your experience. But, um, in my own context,
I've talked with my rector and we
decided, uh, to not make a policy,
uh, because really, it's just I'm the one,
uh, in my context who is using generative
AI. And uh, I'm trying to be faithful
and, um, ethical in my youth and
exploring this and sharing obviously what we're learning with others.
And if we were a larger team where
multiple people were going to be. Use it then, yet. Using it then,
yeah, we should have that transparency and clarity. Um,
and since it's just me, I guess I try to maintain that within
myself, uh, and share with others. But, um,
yeah, that's been my experience.
Uh, so, Mercedes, I'm curious.
Um, did you name your
use of AI from the pulpit or
other public settings? And, uh, how did
you navigate that decision?
>> Mercedes: Um, I just said it. I'm
like, I'm going to a conference. I'm going to learn about
AI. And oh, by the way, it kind of does
some cool stuff. Uh, I have played with it. It
writes really lousy sermons, but it does kind of.
It help with revising. And that
tends to be the way I present things.
My, uh. But that. That's also my
style. Um, but I, you know, as I was just thinking
about this, I had a funny thought because
so Last week I sat down and
wrote my sermon,
um, from my
outline. And then I
used the GPT
to suggest uh, slight
revisions just to any cleanup
it saw. And the revisions were so
slight that I, I uh, had the two
of them and I'm going
sentence by sentence so I pulled my 11 year old daughter
in, said Sydney, you read one
while I read the other one. And I tell you what, um,
it was funny because she
understood tone and context
remarkably well. I was surprised
and uh, made probably more suggested
edits than the AI that were good edits.
And so I found myself actually
talking last week more about the fact that my daughter helped
me write my sermon and AI help me revise
it. So, um, but you know
that, that is kind of a thing.
I, I say that in jest, but also in
seriousness. Uh, early on
my husband would review my sermons
for me, uh, before, uh, just to help me
catch things or perspectives that I might
miss. And then uh, some people
I know have writing partners,
uh, that they swap sermons so that they can
help. Uh, I'm part of uh, backstory
preaching, which big shout out to that program,
uh, because I love it. And so we work together
in terms of outlining and ideas,
uh, to keep our sermons tight.
And I, I'm not expected to
disclose all of those
resources on a regular basis.
And so I, you know, somewhere in there is kind of
like really fine tuning what it is
that is uh, making us feel
the need if, if it's the same level of
editing that that AI is
different. Taking full
responsibility for what I put down on the page as
you have mentioned, and being responsible to make sure
that it's not making things up and,
and that it's not. That we're not plagiarizing.
>> Peter: Sure, yeah, yeah. Definitely have to be
mindful of that. Um, and I, you know, in my own
experience I, I preached about
generative AI in like in general
as a sort of the focus of a, of a
sermon. And in that sermon declare, disclose that.
Yeah, I used AI use AI. I use it to help
me write their sermon etc,
and people found that funny. Um,
and yeah, so I think, you
know, I made sure that people know and acknowledge my
own, uh, use. But. And especially you know,
if someone new comes and ask me a question
about how do you know, how do
you uh, come up with your sermons or
how do you use AI et cetera. I'm m. Transparent about
all that, but um, but yeah, just making sure that generally it's
known but I don't feel the need to like say
every Time, or especially like each, you
know, which words came from AI
versus my own brain. Like what? I
don't know how that would even work. Um, but.
Okay, so here's a more pointed question.
Is using AI cheating? How would
you respond?
>> Mercedes: I do not believe so. Uh, I do feel like
I have, uh, had people indirectly
charge me with that, uh, which is an
awkward conversation.
I think it's a evolution of, uh, the
technology. Uh, and as somebody that is
fairly deep in technology, anyway, it
feels like a next, uh, step to me.
A big next step, but it's still there.
And, um, I keep thinking about
the fact that we have
commentaries and writing guides and
thesauria and
um, uh, podcasts that are
talking about ideas. And there's
Grammarly is already there,
helping to correct the text as it
goes.
>> Peter: And, and that's generative AI too, by the way. And
most people don't know that.
>> Mercedes: Right, right. And
so, uh, it
feels to me my use is in
line with how I use all those
other tools. I
am still doing the work. Uh,
I'm still the
priest.
It's my work and prayer at the
intersection of my
context and my congregation
that drives and
guides where the AI is
going. So it's just another
way of resourcing information more
quickly right now. How about
you?
>> Peter: Well, yeah, I just think the Grammarly example is a really great one,
um, because they, uh, yeah, that's a
tool that people often accept as completely
valid, uh, even if they think that generative AI
might not be. And not realizing that that is generative
AI. Similarly, you know that whenever, uh,
you're composing something in an email or
in a word processor these days, there's that
the word processor will try to complete the sentence for
you and you can just press tab to autocomplete. Um,
and you know, that's, that's also generative
AI, and I think people don't realize that. So it's like it's
impossible to, you know, disclose every single time. But.
But yeah, having some sort of generative general
disclosure is helpful. So people know.
>> Mercedes: Wait, wait, before we go on, I want to come back to something
on this one. Um, because again, we tend
to focus on the sermon writing. And I'll be quite
honest, uh, to me, the sermon writing
has become a red herring. It is. I'm barely
using it, uh, for the sermon writing side of
it. Uh, I, you know, using it for
policies and other, uh,
resources, uh, to get things done around
the church. I, uh, know policies are boring.
But when I get. I think
we've said this in a previous episode, but I have to reiterate
it. When we have to sit down to write a
business document for the church, the first
step is almost always to go
out and search for templates and,
or other churches business
document of whatever kind it is, from
bylaws to
policies. You know, all of
this is, uh, we
go borrow somebody else's and we revise
it. Uh, and depending on what it
is, most of the time, if it's a business
document, somebody else wrote it a long time ago
and we just keep revising it now.
Caveat, you know, if somebody has written
a liturgy and we're
taking that in and revising it, then we do
credit that work. But for the, for the
business documents and things like that, I mean, is it
cheating? We've never called it cheating to go search
for all of those sample templates and
other church policies that are publicly
accessible. So it doesn't
feel like cheating to get uh, AI
to do that search and compile that information for
me.
>> Peter: Yeah, so really I just think we need to take full
responsibility for whatever we put
out into the world.
Um, but yeah, uh, there are
a variety of things we're always copying and learning from
and adapting a metaphor that I love that
you know about, but I'll share. Uh, now is
Tesla full self driving mode? Um,
I don't have one myself, but I learned about this when I rode
in a Tesla for the first time about six months ago.
You, you, you have to keep your hands on the
wheel. Uh, but the car will do all the driving
for you. And the person
legally responsible if the car makes a mistake is
the driver. So you know, you're,
you're the driver in
every way of, uh,
interpreting what that means, except you're not physically doing the
motions. The car is doing it for you. And
so if you're doing your job ethically and faithfully,
getting from A to B, whether that's, you know, driving from place to A
to B, or in a work, um,
process or whatever it may be,
um, there it's uh, important
to, you know, keep that mindset of this is my own
responsibility. Uh, how could you know, keeping
still doing your work ethically and
faithfully. Um, and we have this strange
capitalist mindset I think about know, knowledge work, where
we believe it has to be hard for it to be
valuable. But that doesn't really seem healthy to
me.
>> Mercedes: No.
>> Peter: And I'm actually really hopeful that uh, we can maybe break out of
that. Um, and you know, I, I
think that's what this podcast is all about. It's,
uh. We're, uh, trying to figure out how to faithfully, ethically,
and and hopefully healthily engage, uh,
with this technology.
>> Mercedes: Right. I mean, it goes back to the old saying,
we. Why do we reinvent the wheel
if what exists serves our
needs? Uh, and I
think, uh, in a lot of
organizations, you do see that,
um, understanding
that repetition, uh,
of work is okay. It's fine
if it gets the job done.
>> Peter: Sure.
All right. Another pointed question for you.
Does AI written prayer count as
prayer?
>> Mercedes: Well, I have used it,
and, uh. I've
had, like, good, uh, outputs and bad
outputs. Um, all of them have been reviewed by
me, and all of them have been disclosed when
I did use them. And
I find that, uh,
they. It can do
a good job, especially with the Episcopal
collect, since we're so formulaic
anyway.
>> Peter: Right.
>> Mercedes: Um, and to cover topics that,
uh, were thought of after 1979
and the last BCP. Uh,
so I have used it. I
haven't recently. I did actually do
something, uh, a little bit fun.
Uh, actually, it was our Inquirers class
where I had it outline the
class. I had to go in and do a fair number of revisions, but
I asked it to pair up an opening
and closing prayer for each session
from the bcp, and it did a
lousy job of that. And so one of the things we were
doing as we.
>> Peter: I'm curious. We're using chatgpt or it was
chatgpt. Okay. Because. Because I
imagine Ask Kathy would be really good at that.
>> Mercedes: I. I think I did an earlier version
with Ask Kathy, and then I lost track of that one. And
so it was the ChatGPT one. And
so, uh, the funny thing was, so
we just, uh, going into the Inquirers class,
I just said, okay, we're gonna. I need y'all to tell
me what doesn't make sense here, because AI helped
write this, and, uh, I'm kind of curious to
see what your feedback is. And so
we had. We had mismatched page numbers and
some prayers that didn't match the topics.
But it was. It was a way. Yeah, it was a. It was a way of adding a
little bit of fun, uh, to the class as we went
along. How about you?
>> Peter: Well, yeah, I. I guess, uh, when I'm thinking about
prayer, there are
two aspects to it. You know, there's
the, uh. Or I would say any written prayer is
prayed twice. Once by the person
who wrote it and then
again by the people who read it. Ah.
And, you know,
both of those are completely valid. Uh,
but even with something as. As important as
prayer, sometimes in the life of a
rector or parish priest or whatever, um, you
know, you just need a prayer to share with your
congregation for a specific moment. And so the means of getting
there are less important as a spiritual
practice than the end
of having something to pray in the moment with your
congregation. Uh, I sort of think of it a little
bit as a pilgrimage. Is the process of writing this
prayer going to be a pilgrimage for you?
If so, then write it yourself. But if you need
to just have something, um,
then you might not be prayerful in the act
of writing it, um, but you can be prayerful in the act
of reading it. And another
way I think of it again, back to the car metaphor. You know,
the difference of walking versus driving a car. Uh, you're trying
to get from point A to point B. The car will get you there
faster, but sometimes
it's worth it to walk, you know, back to. Again,
pilgrimage. Uh, walking is inherently good. It
gets you from point A to point B. But also it's, um,
uh, a pleasurable, m. Spiritual,
meaningful experience. Often when we choose to do so
intentionally. Um, um. And so, yeah,
discern what, you know, is this a time where I want to walk there
or do I want to drive there? Uh, and I think that's a, uh,
uh, an apt metaphor for using generative AI.
>> Mercedes: I. You know, I just had a
example pop into my head beyond prayer a little bit. Well, I
mean, it's prayer. It's a short liturgy. Several
years ago, I got a call from, uh, the
daughter of a long time. I mean,
lifelong Episcopalian,
because that afternoon she was
transitioning from her home into an
assisted living. And of course, that was a
difficult transition. And so the daughter
was like, it seems like we should have a
little liturgy that we could
do. For the last time, she locks the
door and makes this transition.
And I looked
everywhere and couldn't find,
uh, I found things around it, but not exactly what
we needed. So we ended up with a couple of
prayers. But, you know, I would have
loved in that moment to have been able to
resource, but I had no
time to go find them and write
because to write a liturgy
like that does take, uh, it is a
prayerful process. And
I only had a couple hours, but it
would have meant so much to her
to really be able to walk through,
uh, a liturgy like that in that moment. So
it.
>> Peter: Yeah.
>> Mercedes: Opportunities.
>> Peter: Yes. I used your discernment.
How do you decide how frequently
to disclose AI use? I know we've talked
about this A bit already. So maybe we'll make this one
quick.
>> Mercedes: Yeah, Um, I think for the most part it
has uh, happened with the
changes as I am finding new ways to
use it. Uh, then I'm letting them know
where it might be, have supported my
work. So that, that's mostly
um, so as I said, it's about once a month
that I will mention it in some way or another.
And right now it's a regular topic on our best street
meetings. Uh, so we're
talking about it monthly.
>> Peter: Great. And yeah, um, again I
believe that uh, AI users should take
full responsibility for their output and
um, make general disclosures.
But um, the reason I don't do every time is
because, you know, um, usually I find that most people
think something is either AI made or human
made, when in fact it's not a binary but more of a
spectrum. You know, anything I share with the public isn't going
to be made solely by AI, but rather involves a
creative back and forth between myself and the generative
AI tool. So it's really more like
made with a human augmented by AI.
Um, but I think the public awareness and discourse isn't to
the level where most people understand what that means.
>> Mercedes: And you know, that brings us.
I'm going to jump on the next question about that because
that's where I get the hooked.
Uh, I'm realizing how much
people don't understand
of what can be done with AI. And I
say that because in the last couple of weeks I've sat down and
done some one on ones with people and once they actually
see the process they're like, oh,
will you share that with me? Uh, I want to try that again.
And the big one in our church
was, I've mentioned it
before, but using it to process and
create a summary report of our SWOT analysis from
our, of all the SWOT reports from our
strategic planning. And
once uh, they saw that it looked like a
report and that our strategic planning
consultant recognized and agreed with the
findings, that that just made a huge
difference because I, I
don't know what they're imagining I'm doing with it when they
are concerned. But as soon as you actually
sit down or I sit down and say this is what I do,
they're like, well, that makes sense that there's nothing
wrong with that. And so that, that's been
something, you know, uh, trying to
navigate, uh, how people are
feeling about it. Uh, is, is
interesting when I don't realize or I
don't know exactly what their knowledge
level is. Um, but Uh,
I am trying to be. Well, I am very open to the
concerns and keeping track of it and
listening. As, uh, I mentioned earlier, we
have an open rectors forum, and
so everybody could express. We had really good discussion around
that. And, you know, they brought up some
concerns that I felt like, needed to be
addressed sooner rather than later, like the
protection of human creatives and making sure they're
compensated. We talked about the environmental
impact, as we have in previous,
uh, conversations. Uh, we, uh,
have a few episodes here. Yep. And then, uh, the
impact on youth. But what I heard
clearly and is, uh, being
reflected in our responsible use policy
is the concern about the privacy
of, uh, personal information. So
that's not an area that we will be
exploring. And so that
is, I think it's just important to listen
and to be open to the fact that,
uh, they may have read something they probably have that
I haven't had a chance to get to yet. But I just
don't know sometimes if they have actually sat down and
played with it either. Well,
well.
>> Peter: So, yeah, our next question was, and you've talked a
bit about this, uh, so how do you build trust with your parishioners
around something as unfamiliar and potentially controversial
as AI? And for me, you know, the
answer, uh, boiled down to its
essence is just, uh, be transparent and
invite conversation. And, you know,
you, uh, respond pastorally to wherever that
conversation leads.
>> Mercedes: So I'm going to give, like, a not quite pastoral
example. Well, it's a. It's a friend of mine who's an
artist, uh, said, I tried AI and
it just didn't do what I wanted it to do. I said, well, what did you want it to
do? Uh, and y'all will probably have to look
this up. But she said, I needed it to produce a list
of nouns and verbs and, uh,
descriptions or adjectives as prompts for
a particular art project. And, uh,
I didn't like what it produced. And I said, what
kind of art project was it? She
said, it's called an Exquisite Corpse.
So I opened up ChatGPT and
said, Describe an exquisite
corpse project, uh, to me.
And it did. And
then I said, create the prompts for an
exquisite. And it immediately did
that. Uh, and it was
perfect. That was all we had to do was produce
the context, provide the context. And then she
was like, well, that's exactly what I wanted it to do. So
that again, is that we've said it over and over again.
Provide the context first, and then it
will, you know, provide some interesting information.
>> Peter: Sure, yeah.
Um, so have you Ever
had to adjust course based on feedback
from your congregation?
>> Mercedes: I would say not specifically,
uh,
on any particular timeline, because it's kind of just evolving
as it goes. But I always
feel like, uh, in change management
in any organization, but especially a church,
part of the process is listening
and then giving time for ideas
to spread within the congregation and for people to discuss and
process and before you assess
when to take a next step. So that's just kind of part of integrated
and how we change things in churches.
>> Peter: Yeah. M. And I've shared some things about this
already, but I think the only, uh, further thing I want to
share is, you know, we're in this period of trial
and error. It's a new technology, and people are figuring out, uh, how
to make it, use how m. How to make it useful and
how to use it well. And I think the
main adjustments I've had to make have just been how
I've learned to use these tools better and fix
their mist and, you know, take better responsibility
for them as a user of this
technology. Um, I want to make sure that
I, uh, you know, I'm understanding better that how
I can take full responsibility for the output that I'm
putting out there.
So how does your theology of the Holy Spirit shape your
understanding, understanding of collaboration with AI
tools?
>> Mercedes: Uh, I. I'm going to lean into a saying I heard
a few years ago that I love and,
uh, I share often now, which is I want
to be open to being surprised by the Holy
Spirit, and I
associate the Holy Spirit with
change and discernment.
And so, uh, given
my experience with technology, again, it
kind of feels like that the Holy Spirit sometimes might throw
things at me technology wise. Just
like, uh, sometimes it's,
uh, a cat lost in a parking lot that my husband told
me not to pick up.
>> Peter: There's a story there for sure. Um,
yeah, so we've talked about discernment, especially in
episode two. Uh, as long as we're using these tools
faithfully and ethically, the Spirit works through us
regardless of what tools we're using. Um, so,
yeah, I would just say keep discerning. Keep using these
tools well, and the Spirit will be there, whether you're using
an AI tool or social media
algorithms or word processors
or text messages or pencil and paper. Whatever tools you
use, the Spirit can work through us as we use
them.
So what would you say, Mercedes, to a church
leader who feels curious about A.I.
but, uh, is afraid to bring it up with their vestry or
congregation?
>> Mercedes: Well, you know, there's the standard,
uh, approach of church management in terms of
starting with key lay leaders,
uh, to have one on
one conversations, uh, and get, and take
the temperature of your organization before
you do a presentation. And I think, uh,
that's always an important part of change management.
But I think after my experience over the
last few weeks,
um, I would be ready,
uh, with some examples
because again, every time
I have actually shown an example
of what I provide
and what AI responds and how
we shape something together, or even
just here's the context, here's the question,
and, oh, look, here's some information
that has changed minds very
quickly. So,
uh, you know, but a lot of it is going to
be, uh, don't take it
personally if folks are criticizing AI, they're
criticizing AI, not us. Um,
and, uh, also continue
to research and be open and
honest about acknowledging the
risks, uh, and the concerns
and uh, having a willingness
to adapt the strategy or a
policy to meet those risks and concerns.
>> Peter: Sure, yeah. And I would just add, you
know, if you're thinking about bringing this up with your
congregation, play around with it, uh, get a solid
understanding of how generative AI can be useful
and think deeply about its ethical and faithful
use. Um, of course that's what we're trying to do here on this
podcast. So keep listening. And
uh, it's really, you know, it is a contentious
topic, and it's a bit too much of a contentious
topic to bring up without some
preparation. And that involves talking to your
congregation in one on ones, but also having a
deeper understanding of how the technology actually works.
So when you can, when you feel that you can stand on
somewhat solid ground, whatever that looks like in your
context, and still listen deeply to the
concerns of your parishioners, whatever they may have,
that's when you can engage in a helpful
congregation conversation with your
congregation.
>> Mercedes: Absolutely. Because, uh, again,
when we said this many times, it is
ultimately about what it's doing, uh,
to help us with human, uh,
relationships, not to undermine them
or to bypass them. So,
uh, we're not taking that part of change
out of the process. We still need
to, uh, talk to humans and work with
humans and listen and be, uh, and be
attentive to their concerns.
>> Peter: All right, so shall we wrap it up with the baptismal
covenant?
>> Mercedes: Absolutely. I'll take a little turn here on the question
asking.
>> Peter: Okay.
>> Mercedes: All right. What, uh, do you think about
continuing in the apostles teaching and fellowship and in
the breaking of the bread and in the prayers?
>> Peter: Well, I guess I just think that helping, um,
your community navigate this change that we're all
going through, uh, as generative AI
transforms the world around us, also helps them
throughout the rest of their lives and
living, uh, into the modern world. And how great could that be
if churches are a place that serve, um, their
communities in, uh, navigating
this transition. So there's
a lot of teaching that goes on there, but also a,
ah, teaching about how to use this faithfully and
well. Any disruption will
lead to pain. Um, and,
and that's a, a hard fact of life.
And so how can we minimize pain? How can
we care for those who are experiencing that
pain? Um, you know, uh, that's, that's
what the church is there for.
>> Mercedes: Absolutely. I think I would just add
to that that, uh,
we, we, we, we say all the time
that, uh, worship is not necessarily, necessarily
what happens in the nave of the
sanctuary, but how it prepares us to go out into
the world to serve our ministry. And
we can't control the pace of change in
society. It is getting, uh, more
complex every day. And
I hate to discard a
potential technology that could help
us better engage, uh, in
ministry and evangelism and
connecting with people where they are.
Okay, next up, will you persevere in resisting
evil and whenever you fall into sin, repent and return
to the Lord?
>> Peter: Yeah, I mean, uh, this is a big shift we're all going
through, so you have to navigate it transparently and
pastorally. And, uh, we're all going to make
mistakes. I've made mistakes. I've, you
know, in. Not in any big ways, but,
um, there are times where I know I've
failed, um, to check, you know, everything it put out and
realized there was a mistake in email or something.
And, and taking responsibility for that,
taking a pastoral approach to whatever the
consequences might be. And
yeah, um, I think transparency
and care for others is how we can, um, best
resist evil in this case.
>> Mercedes: Absolutely. And then, you know, we've said before it's an
evolving technology, so we recognize that
more information is coming out every day. And
sometimes we're going to find ourselves in a place where what
we're doing might not have been the best idea. So the best
we can do, uh, is when we know better,
do better. Okay.
Uh, will you proclaim by word and example the good news
of God in Christ?
>> Peter: Yeah. And we've talked about how AI can be
a tool that helps us serve that
purpose. But in regards to, you know,
understanding it, ah, theologically and communally, like, we
have to be really clear that, you know, AI will not save
us. Ah, it is, it is a tool. Uh,
there Is no known tool that can.
Will save us from who we are as human
beings. But AI can help us to do God's
work in the world. And you know, uh, God gives us
tools all the time. And I'm excited to see, see and
continue learning about what the Holy Spirit is up to and the
creation of new tools all the time.
>> Mercedes: Absolutely. Uh, I've always found that my call
is at the intersection of technology and
ministry. And in particular right
now, um, I see opportunity with AI
for improving the things that we
do more in the quote unquote, running the
church side of,
um, side of things. Better
administration, better communications,
new, um, ways to evangelize. I, uh, just think there's some
great opportunities there. Will you
strive for justice and
peace? Did I skip one? I did.
Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as
yourself? How can I miss the greatest
commandment?
>> Peter: Right. But I mean, it is great and it's are
relatively simple. I think transparency is care.
And you know, um, having
transparency, having pastoral care for folks who
are navigating this transition with us, um, it
really boils down to that. And then. Yeah, for that last
one, um, do you have more things to say? Well, for either of
those.
>> Mercedes: Ah, well, I mean, if you're not willing to be authentic
about saying that you're doing it, then you might not want to be doing
it. That, you know, that's the transparency.
>> Peter: Yeah, sure. Yeah.
>> Mercedes: Oh. Will you, Will you strive for justice and peace among
all people and respect the dignity of every human
being?
>> Peter: Yeah. I don't think I have anything more to say than all the things we've
already said there. What about you?
>> Mercedes: I would only add that, uh, as
with all change, uh, there
is going to be concerns and
anxiety and um. I was actually
talking to somebody earlier today and uh, we were
reflecting on the fact that
that comes from a place of love. People
get, uh, anxious about change because they love
their church, they love the traditions, they love the worship,
they love the community. And
uh, I think it's important for us just to remember
and reframe that
we're all working towards community, uh,
here.
>> Peter: Right. I'll actually add one more thing that I just thought of
that I should make more clear. I talked about how
disruption brings pain. And
there, you know, any, any big
technological disruption is going to create the
loss of jobs. And we've seen that with social
media and the way that, you know, um,
communications, uh, institutions like
journalism have. Have been so, uh,
heavily impacted by that. You know, we don't know the full
replication repercussions of what generative AI is going
to have. But artists are definitely feeling the
pain. And I think there is a.
There's a very important role in the church of, you know,
caring for people who are experiencing that pain. And I
just want to underline, uh, that thing that I
already said before. Yeah.
>> Mercedes: When it comes to justice and peace, I think. Yeah. That. That's.
That's really important. Thank you.
>> Peter: Yeah.
>> Mercedes: Okay, well, we've come to the end here, so
here's the takeaway. Um, if you're going to work
with AI, we recommend starting to communicate
early and often. Uh, and be
transparent with your congregation. Uh, if I
can borrow an old phrase. Ah. From church
communications, uh, figure out how to say it at
least three times in three different ways.
Uh, it is helpful. Uh, but if you did find
this helpful, uh, we hope that you will
share it and leave a review. And don't forget to
subscribe to aichurch.
>> Peter: Toolkit as, uh, always some
listener homework.
Think about your own organization, where you work.
Do you need to have some transparent conversations with leaders in
your congregation about using generative AI?
And could you use this opportunity to support
them in their own journey of learning to use
generative AI? So reflect on all of that.
>> Mercedes: All right, thank you for joining us for episode six
of the AI Church Toolkit podcast. We are
grateful to the Try Tank Research Institute for
making this podcast possible.
>> Peter: And remember, AI is a tool, but our mission
remains rooted in faith and community. See
you next time.
>> Mercedes: Sa.