1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,740 >> Mercedes: Foreign. 2 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,384 Welcome to episode six of the AI 3 00:00:15,432 --> 00:00:18,200 Church Toolkit podcast. This is the 4 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:20,952 podcast where we empower church leaders with tools for 5 00:00:20,976 --> 00:00:23,496 faithful ministry in the digital age. I'm 6 00:00:23,528 --> 00:00:24,540 Mercedes. 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,800 >> Peter: And I'm Peter. Together we explore how faith and 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,232 technology intersect, guided by the 9 00:00:30,256 --> 00:00:31,660 baptismal covenant. 10 00:00:32,490 --> 00:00:34,914 >> Mercedes: And today we'll be taking a slightly different 11 00:00:35,002 --> 00:00:37,740 approach as we have a, uh, 12 00:00:37,770 --> 00:00:40,530 discussion about how we've managed the changes 13 00:00:40,610 --> 00:00:43,378 around AI, uh, within our 14 00:00:43,434 --> 00:00:46,130 congregations. So we'll have 15 00:00:46,250 --> 00:00:48,754 some open question and answer and 16 00:00:48,842 --> 00:00:51,650 exploring processes about each of our 17 00:00:51,690 --> 00:00:54,370 experiences within our churches and in our 18 00:00:54,410 --> 00:00:55,110 communities. 19 00:00:55,770 --> 00:00:58,610 >> Peter: And Mercedes, you led a very intentional process with 20 00:00:58,650 --> 00:01:01,618 your own congregation, which I admire deeply. And 21 00:01:01,674 --> 00:01:04,270 so we're really going to focus a lot on that 22 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:07,166 experience of yours today. Are you ready 23 00:01:07,198 --> 00:01:07,982 to dive in? 24 00:01:08,086 --> 00:01:09,050 >> Mercedes: Let's go. 25 00:01:21,190 --> 00:01:24,160 >> Peter: All right, so, uh, why don't you start by talking us, uh, 26 00:01:24,230 --> 00:01:27,102 through an overview of the change process that 27 00:01:27,126 --> 00:01:29,988 you experienced with your congregation and then I'll 28 00:01:30,004 --> 00:01:32,550 have some questions for you and we can discuss, uh, 29 00:01:32,844 --> 00:01:34,020 it further in a bit. 30 00:01:34,140 --> 00:01:36,770 >> Mercedes: Okay. So I'm going to kind of start with, 31 00:01:36,770 --> 00:01:39,412 uh, a high level overview as I have explored 32 00:01:39,476 --> 00:01:42,356 AI in general. And I do think it's probably helpful 33 00:01:42,388 --> 00:01:45,220 at this point to say that, uh, because of my previous 34 00:01:45,340 --> 00:01:47,620 career in technology, that 35 00:01:47,740 --> 00:01:49,560 implementing systems, 36 00:01:49,570 --> 00:01:52,244 um, software, uh, business 37 00:01:52,332 --> 00:01:54,772 processes, business process improvement is kind 38 00:01:54,796 --> 00:01:57,332 of, uh, part of my 39 00:01:57,436 --> 00:02:00,276 core skill set. And 40 00:02:00,428 --> 00:02:03,204 so I was very intentional about 41 00:02:03,372 --> 00:02:06,292 approaching this with my church. You 42 00:02:06,316 --> 00:02:08,692 know, when all the news hype came out in 43 00:02:08,716 --> 00:02:11,636 2023, uh, I did some initial experimenting 44 00:02:11,668 --> 00:02:14,532 with AI on my own. Uh, but that 45 00:02:14,556 --> 00:02:17,460 was mostly just playing around 46 00:02:17,580 --> 00:02:20,452 with, uh, some of the features. I 47 00:02:20,476 --> 00:02:23,140 avoided the sermon writing thing because there was so 48 00:02:23,180 --> 00:02:25,950 much chatter about that. But I 49 00:02:25,990 --> 00:02:28,610 did attend the first Try Tank webinar, 50 00:02:28,820 --> 00:02:31,806 uh, on the use of AI to generate 51 00:02:31,918 --> 00:02:34,126 ideas for your church around 52 00:02:34,278 --> 00:02:36,782 context. And, uh, I did 53 00:02:36,806 --> 00:02:39,406 appreciate that, uh, Father Lorenzo 54 00:02:39,438 --> 00:02:42,382 included panelists from BTS that discussed the potential 55 00:02:42,446 --> 00:02:45,214 use in sermons. And at that time, 56 00:02:45,302 --> 00:02:48,142 you know, the focus was, well, to get away from the 57 00:02:48,166 --> 00:02:50,998 blank page, uh, for brainstorming, for 58 00:02:51,054 --> 00:02:53,846 outlining ideas. Um, but when I 59 00:02:53,918 --> 00:02:56,886 talk to my own peers, I 60 00:02:56,958 --> 00:02:59,958 heard a lot of pushback. There was Discomfort around using 61 00:03:00,014 --> 00:03:02,070 AI in 62 00:03:02,190 --> 00:03:05,030 2024. So last summer, right before 63 00:03:05,070 --> 00:03:07,862 we met, I did bring it up with the 64 00:03:07,886 --> 00:03:10,758 Vestry, uh, as I 65 00:03:10,894 --> 00:03:13,770 was planning on attending the AI summit, 66 00:03:14,190 --> 00:03:16,754 ah, which was in August last year. 67 00:03:16,922 --> 00:03:19,442 And so I also mentioned it in the 68 00:03:19,466 --> 00:03:22,274 announcement at that time, since I'd be traveling and out of the 69 00:03:22,282 --> 00:03:25,202 office, uh, that we would. I was just, I was 70 00:03:25,226 --> 00:03:27,990 going to the summit to learn more about AI. 71 00:03:28,890 --> 00:03:31,826 And then after the Summit, my use 72 00:03:31,898 --> 00:03:34,802 increased significantly. I learned quite a bit there. 73 00:03:34,906 --> 00:03:37,670 It's like, oh, oh, well, this is cool. 74 00:03:38,010 --> 00:03:40,630 And so I began, uh, 75 00:03:40,962 --> 00:03:42,950 to revisit it at Vestry. 76 00:03:43,470 --> 00:03:46,246 I, uh, mention it at announcements. 77 00:03:46,358 --> 00:03:49,014 Probably about once a month. We have 78 00:03:49,102 --> 00:03:52,006 continued discussion, uh, at Vestry with very 79 00:03:52,078 --> 00:03:54,982 specific examples. I've also held an 80 00:03:55,006 --> 00:03:57,730 open forum between the services 81 00:03:58,030 --> 00:04:00,566 for discussion of concerns and 82 00:04:00,638 --> 00:04:03,398 feedback. And that worked really well 83 00:04:03,454 --> 00:04:06,326 because a professor from our local college who is on 84 00:04:06,398 --> 00:04:09,150 their AI Ethics committee, uh, 85 00:04:09,310 --> 00:04:12,054 is a member of the church and also came and 86 00:04:12,222 --> 00:04:14,330 played devil's, uh, advocate. 87 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,320 And then, uh, now 88 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,248 we're, uh, actually introducing an 89 00:04:20,304 --> 00:04:22,824 AI Responsible use 90 00:04:22,912 --> 00:04:25,880 policy, uh, with, uh, to 91 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,872 start to put what we're thinking down on paper 92 00:04:29,016 --> 00:04:31,608 to manage the expectations. And I should 93 00:04:31,664 --> 00:04:34,472 mention that after the summit, once I 94 00:04:34,496 --> 00:04:37,352 started exploring it for sermon 95 00:04:37,416 --> 00:04:39,650 use, I, uh, was transparent, uh, 96 00:04:40,552 --> 00:04:43,540 in my announcements to say that, uh, at 97 00:04:43,580 --> 00:04:46,516 times I was using AI for that, uh, so that 98 00:04:46,588 --> 00:04:49,316 folks would be able and invited 99 00:04:49,428 --> 00:04:51,840 as much conversation or 100 00:04:52,620 --> 00:04:55,040 feedback, uh, as people wanted to provide. 101 00:04:55,900 --> 00:04:58,884 So we are right there at that edge. I'm 102 00:04:58,932 --> 00:05:01,908 thinking at the next Vestry meeting, we'll probably finalize 103 00:05:02,004 --> 00:05:04,000 the responsible use policy. 104 00:05:05,180 --> 00:05:07,580 >> Peter: Great. Okay. That's. That's exciting. 105 00:05:07,580 --> 00:05:10,066 Um, it's 106 00:05:10,098 --> 00:05:13,042 funny. Policies, uh, can be a 107 00:05:13,066 --> 00:05:15,938 bit of a drag. But also they're so helpful if you just have 108 00:05:15,994 --> 00:05:18,030 clarity and transparency about, 109 00:05:19,060 --> 00:05:21,970 uh, what the policy is and everybody knows and we're all 110 00:05:22,010 --> 00:05:23,298 on the same page. 111 00:05:23,474 --> 00:05:25,950 So do you want to go back and talk a bit more about 112 00:05:26,250 --> 00:05:29,202 how you introduced the idea of using AI to 113 00:05:29,226 --> 00:05:32,162 your parish and what language or framing you found 114 00:05:32,186 --> 00:05:33,650 to be most helpful with them? 115 00:05:33,770 --> 00:05:36,642 >> Mercedes: Yes, and I actually kind of fell into it because I had 116 00:05:36,666 --> 00:05:39,506 reached out to Father Lorenzo Labrija 117 00:05:39,538 --> 00:05:42,242 at Try Tank about some other technology 118 00:05:42,346 --> 00:05:45,282 questions, and he invited me to the summit at 119 00:05:45,306 --> 00:05:48,274 that point. And so I used 120 00:05:48,362 --> 00:05:51,362 that to frame as kind of like in a restaurant. They call 121 00:05:51,386 --> 00:05:54,290 it a soft opening that, uh, when 122 00:05:54,330 --> 00:05:57,106 you open for a few days, unofficially, before your 123 00:05:57,178 --> 00:05:59,550 grand opening. And 124 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,240 attending the AI Summit gave me kind of a 125 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,312 soft opening opportunity to say, this is 126 00:06:06,336 --> 00:06:09,256 going on. It's being sponsored by 127 00:06:09,328 --> 00:06:11,100 an Episcopal organization, 128 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:14,408 and, um, I am going 129 00:06:14,544 --> 00:06:17,176 to learn about it and see 130 00:06:17,328 --> 00:06:20,056 what's out there, uh, and 131 00:06:20,128 --> 00:06:22,152 specifically talking about with my 132 00:06:22,176 --> 00:06:24,632 congregation as 133 00:06:24,736 --> 00:06:26,840 we navigate decline, uh, 134 00:06:28,110 --> 00:06:30,902 what, uh, AI may or may not be 135 00:06:30,926 --> 00:06:33,910 able to help with, uh, either in 136 00:06:33,950 --> 00:06:36,742 cost savings or, uh, new 137 00:06:36,766 --> 00:06:39,622 ideas or wherever it would go. So 138 00:06:39,646 --> 00:06:42,598 that was kind of my opportunity to 139 00:06:42,654 --> 00:06:45,238 initially start the conversation 140 00:06:45,414 --> 00:06:48,022 with the sense that I was going to a 141 00:06:48,046 --> 00:06:50,610 legitimate source to learn about it. 142 00:06:51,870 --> 00:06:54,822 >> Peter: Sure. Yeah. Soft openings are great because Then you can sort of test 143 00:06:54,846 --> 00:06:57,834 the water. I imagine you get a little bit of a 144 00:06:57,842 --> 00:07:00,520 sense of, okay, you know, this is the, uh, 145 00:07:00,706 --> 00:07:03,690 temperature in the room about this. This issue in my 146 00:07:03,730 --> 00:07:06,074 context. And have, uh, some initial 147 00:07:06,122 --> 00:07:06,922 conversations. 148 00:07:07,066 --> 00:07:07,440 >> Mercedes: Yeah. 149 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,362 >> Peter: Um, so about these, uh, initial 150 00:07:10,426 --> 00:07:13,402 conversations and reactions, were there any ones that 151 00:07:13,506 --> 00:07:16,442 surprised you, either in a positive or a negative 152 00:07:16,506 --> 00:07:17,018 way? 153 00:07:17,154 --> 00:07:19,882 >> Mercedes: Yes, actually, when I mentioned it to 154 00:07:19,906 --> 00:07:22,490 Vestry, uh, that I'd like to go on this trip, uh, 155 00:07:22,634 --> 00:07:25,564 and that I asked first, 156 00:07:25,732 --> 00:07:28,668 what do you all know about AI and what 157 00:07:28,724 --> 00:07:31,612 concerns do you have? And they were like, 158 00:07:31,796 --> 00:07:33,880 we're not worried about AI. Why? 159 00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:38,120 Well, what have you heard in the news? 160 00:07:38,580 --> 00:07:41,372 And somebody said, I guess I'd be a little 161 00:07:41,396 --> 00:07:44,300 worried about privacy concerns. And I 162 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:47,290 said, okay, what about, um, 163 00:07:47,290 --> 00:07:49,160 in the church? And they're like. 164 00:07:50,190 --> 00:07:53,142 To be honest, I think, uh, sometimes 165 00:07:53,206 --> 00:07:56,166 as clergy, we are. 166 00:07:56,238 --> 00:07:59,190 We. We are getting information that we 167 00:07:59,230 --> 00:08:01,142 don't realize that the 168 00:08:01,246 --> 00:08:04,118 congregations don't see as often 169 00:08:04,174 --> 00:08:07,014 as we do. So until 170 00:08:07,102 --> 00:08:10,054 I said, well, what do y'all think about AI 171 00:08:10,102 --> 00:08:12,870 and sermon writing? Because I hear a lot about 172 00:08:12,910 --> 00:08:15,808 that. They were like, I don't 173 00:08:15,824 --> 00:08:18,740 know. I. I guess don't plagiarize. 174 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,640 How does that work? What does it do? And so 175 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,600 really the biggest part of it was there was a 176 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,620 complete lack of knowledge and information. 177 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,712 Ah. Because they just hadn't had a reason to explore it 178 00:08:31,736 --> 00:08:32,300 before. 179 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,060 >> Peter: Sure. Wow. Okay. Yeah. 180 00:08:35,060 --> 00:08:38,000 >> Mercedes: Um, how did your 181 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,420 first chat go? 182 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,816 >> Peter: Oh, man. Um, it was a bit different. 183 00:08:42,968 --> 00:08:45,120 I, uh, definitely experienced some 184 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,580 pushback. And 185 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,624 that's interesting. You know, every context is going to be different. 186 00:08:50,712 --> 00:08:53,392 And I love that you, despite, uh, having, you 187 00:08:53,416 --> 00:08:56,320 know, this openness to it, you, uh, still 188 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,120 went through the whole intentional process, uh, that you 189 00:08:59,160 --> 00:08:59,600 did. 190 00:08:59,630 --> 00:09:02,460 Uh, we talked about, um, but, yeah, so in my own experience, 191 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,840 there are a variety of 192 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,810 opinions and people have a lot of, uh, 193 00:09:08,810 --> 00:09:11,678 ethical and moral questions about using 194 00:09:11,734 --> 00:09:14,542 generative AI, many of which we've talked about on 195 00:09:14,566 --> 00:09:17,054 this podcast already. Um, in a general 196 00:09:17,142 --> 00:09:19,438 sense, uh, there were two 197 00:09:19,494 --> 00:09:21,850 parishioners I can think of who were, 198 00:09:21,950 --> 00:09:24,730 uh, outspoken about it. 199 00:09:25,270 --> 00:09:27,870 One maintained that AI use should be 200 00:09:27,910 --> 00:09:30,570 disclosed whenever it's been used. 201 00:09:31,110 --> 00:09:33,690 And I, 202 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,840 like, want to honor that and also 203 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,000 understand that it's complicated, um, 204 00:09:39,784 --> 00:09:42,488 because, you know, there's. Whenever I'm 205 00:09:42,504 --> 00:09:45,272 using generative AI, it's not just like the 206 00:09:45,296 --> 00:09:48,120 AI creates a finished product on its own. There's always 207 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,000 this back and forth. Um, and so the thing 208 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,780 that has, uh, worked for me is to 209 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,968 say, uh, that, like, I'm maintaining full responsibility for 210 00:09:57,024 --> 00:10:00,024 whatever I say or share or write, whether it's with assistance 211 00:10:00,072 --> 00:10:02,702 from AI or not. And, 212 00:10:02,886 --> 00:10:05,598 you know, I want people to know that they're talking to me 213 00:10:05,654 --> 00:10:08,462 and people, uh, whether I, you know, used an 214 00:10:08,486 --> 00:10:11,358 AI to help me write an email or not, they're. They're 215 00:10:11,374 --> 00:10:13,822 talking to me and constantly giving the 216 00:10:13,846 --> 00:10:16,846 disclaimer. My concern would be that it would be misleading 217 00:10:16,878 --> 00:10:19,150 because people would, you know, if they don't have 218 00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:22,062 familiar familiarity with AI, they 219 00:10:22,086 --> 00:10:25,022 might be led to think that this is the AI talking, not 220 00:10:25,046 --> 00:10:27,950 Peter. Can I really trust this? When in fact it's know, 221 00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:30,750 my job to retain, uh, full 222 00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:33,550 responsibility. And. And we'll talk about that more at a later 223 00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:34,570 question. But. 224 00:10:34,870 --> 00:10:37,358 So that was one. One parishioner and another 225 00:10:37,414 --> 00:10:40,286 parishioner maintained that AI shouldn't be used at all. 226 00:10:40,438 --> 00:10:43,310 I, uh, think for a variety of reasons. And 227 00:10:43,430 --> 00:10:46,390 I've, you know, had this discussion several, uh, 228 00:10:46,694 --> 00:10:49,166 times with various, uh, folks and 229 00:10:49,318 --> 00:10:52,270 I, in this, you know, mostly with people who are 230 00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:55,246 not members of my congregation. Um, I've told this particular 231 00:10:55,318 --> 00:10:57,850 parishioner I'd be glad to talk about it in detail. 232 00:10:58,530 --> 00:11:01,530 And they haven't followed up. So obviously there's more work 233 00:11:01,570 --> 00:11:04,442 to be done there. And I think, uh, you've led a more thorough 234 00:11:04,506 --> 00:11:07,482 process, which is why we're focused primarily on 235 00:11:07,506 --> 00:11:10,362 your experience. But, um, in my own context, 236 00:11:10,506 --> 00:11:12,890 I've talked with my rector and we 237 00:11:12,930 --> 00:11:15,590 decided, uh, to not make a policy, 238 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,870 uh, because really, it's just I'm the one, 239 00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:21,434 uh, in my context who is using generative 240 00:11:21,482 --> 00:11:24,442 AI. And uh, I'm trying to be faithful 241 00:11:24,506 --> 00:11:27,302 and, um, ethical in my youth and 242 00:11:27,326 --> 00:11:30,166 exploring this and sharing obviously what we're learning with others. 243 00:11:30,238 --> 00:11:32,902 And if we were a larger team where 244 00:11:32,926 --> 00:11:35,862 multiple people were going to be. Use it then, yet. Using it then, 245 00:11:35,886 --> 00:11:38,490 yeah, we should have that transparency and clarity. Um, 246 00:11:39,390 --> 00:11:42,358 and since it's just me, I guess I try to maintain that within 247 00:11:42,414 --> 00:11:45,170 myself, uh, and share with others. But, um, 248 00:11:45,246 --> 00:11:46,770 yeah, that's been my experience. 249 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,020 Uh, so, Mercedes, I'm curious. 250 00:11:50,020 --> 00:11:52,848 Um, did you name your 251 00:11:52,904 --> 00:11:55,696 use of AI from the pulpit or 252 00:11:55,768 --> 00:11:58,608 other public settings? And, uh, how did 253 00:11:58,664 --> 00:12:00,540 you navigate that decision? 254 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,256 >> Mercedes: Um, I just said it. I'm 255 00:12:04,288 --> 00:12:06,880 like, I'm going to a conference. I'm going to learn about 256 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,792 AI. And oh, by the way, it kind of does 257 00:12:09,816 --> 00:12:12,800 some cool stuff. Uh, I have played with it. It 258 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,648 writes really lousy sermons, but it does kind of. 259 00:12:15,704 --> 00:12:18,672 It help with revising. And that 260 00:12:18,856 --> 00:12:21,088 tends to be the way I present things. 261 00:12:21,224 --> 00:12:23,888 My, uh. But that. That's also my 262 00:12:23,944 --> 00:12:26,912 style. Um, but I, you know, as I was just thinking 263 00:12:26,976 --> 00:12:29,660 about this, I had a funny thought because 264 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,120 so Last week I sat down and 265 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,980 wrote my sermon, 266 00:12:35,660 --> 00:12:37,808 um, from my 267 00:12:37,864 --> 00:12:40,512 outline. And then I 268 00:12:40,616 --> 00:12:42,960 used the GPT 269 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,334 to suggest uh, slight 270 00:12:45,382 --> 00:12:48,374 revisions just to any cleanup 271 00:12:48,422 --> 00:12:50,950 it saw. And the revisions were so 272 00:12:50,990 --> 00:12:53,862 slight that I, I uh, had the two 273 00:12:53,886 --> 00:12:55,570 of them and I'm going 274 00:12:56,590 --> 00:12:59,494 sentence by sentence so I pulled my 11 year old daughter 275 00:12:59,542 --> 00:13:02,358 in, said Sydney, you read one 276 00:13:02,414 --> 00:13:05,360 while I read the other one. And I tell you what, um, 277 00:13:06,190 --> 00:13:08,930 it was funny because she 278 00:13:09,630 --> 00:13:11,610 understood tone and context 279 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,400 remarkably well. I was surprised 280 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:17,472 and uh, made probably more suggested 281 00:13:17,536 --> 00:13:20,368 edits than the AI that were good edits. 282 00:13:20,544 --> 00:13:23,312 And so I found myself actually 283 00:13:23,416 --> 00:13:26,288 talking last week more about the fact that my daughter helped 284 00:13:26,304 --> 00:13:29,184 me write my sermon and AI help me revise 285 00:13:29,232 --> 00:13:31,792 it. So, um, but you know 286 00:13:31,816 --> 00:13:34,688 that, that is kind of a thing. 287 00:13:34,744 --> 00:13:37,008 I, I say that in jest, but also in 288 00:13:37,064 --> 00:13:39,840 seriousness. Uh, early on 289 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,944 my husband would review my sermons 290 00:13:42,992 --> 00:13:45,920 for me, uh, before, uh, just to help me 291 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,528 catch things or perspectives that I might 292 00:13:48,584 --> 00:13:51,360 miss. And then uh, some people 293 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,860 I know have writing partners, 294 00:13:54,350 --> 00:13:57,152 uh, that they swap sermons so that they can 295 00:13:57,176 --> 00:13:59,776 help. Uh, I'm part of uh, backstory 296 00:13:59,888 --> 00:14:02,780 preaching, which big shout out to that program, 297 00:14:03,130 --> 00:14:06,128 uh, because I love it. And so we work together 298 00:14:06,264 --> 00:14:09,230 in terms of outlining and ideas, 299 00:14:09,230 --> 00:14:11,680 uh, to keep our sermons tight. 300 00:14:12,020 --> 00:14:14,268 And I, I'm not expected to 301 00:14:14,324 --> 00:14:16,764 disclose all of those 302 00:14:16,932 --> 00:14:19,516 resources on a regular basis. 303 00:14:19,708 --> 00:14:22,268 And so I, you know, somewhere in there is kind of 304 00:14:22,324 --> 00:14:25,100 like really fine tuning what it is 305 00:14:25,220 --> 00:14:27,964 that is uh, making us feel 306 00:14:28,052 --> 00:14:30,380 the need if, if it's the same level of 307 00:14:30,420 --> 00:14:33,148 editing that that AI is 308 00:14:33,284 --> 00:14:35,708 different. Taking full 309 00:14:35,764 --> 00:14:38,742 responsibility for what I put down on the page as 310 00:14:38,766 --> 00:14:41,718 you have mentioned, and being responsible to make sure 311 00:14:41,774 --> 00:14:44,534 that it's not making things up and, 312 00:14:44,622 --> 00:14:47,610 and that it's not. That we're not plagiarizing. 313 00:14:48,510 --> 00:14:51,334 >> Peter: Sure, yeah, yeah. Definitely have to be 314 00:14:51,422 --> 00:14:54,422 mindful of that. Um, and I, you know, in my own 315 00:14:54,526 --> 00:14:57,410 experience I, I preached about 316 00:14:57,950 --> 00:15:00,854 generative AI in like in general 317 00:15:00,942 --> 00:15:03,526 as a sort of the focus of a, of a 318 00:15:03,598 --> 00:15:06,500 sermon. And in that sermon declare, disclose that. 319 00:15:06,540 --> 00:15:09,492 Yeah, I used AI use AI. I use it to help 320 00:15:09,516 --> 00:15:11,800 me write their sermon etc, 321 00:15:12,220 --> 00:15:14,640 and people found that funny. Um, 322 00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,572 and yeah, so I think, you 323 00:15:17,596 --> 00:15:20,452 know, I made sure that people know and acknowledge my 324 00:15:20,476 --> 00:15:23,396 own, uh, use. But. And especially you know, 325 00:15:23,548 --> 00:15:26,324 if someone new comes and ask me a question 326 00:15:26,412 --> 00:15:28,932 about how do you know, how do 327 00:15:28,956 --> 00:15:31,822 you uh, come up with your sermons or 328 00:15:31,846 --> 00:15:34,670 how do you use AI et cetera. I'm m. Transparent about 329 00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:37,646 all that, but um, but yeah, just making sure that generally it's 330 00:15:37,678 --> 00:15:40,398 known but I don't feel the need to like say 331 00:15:40,454 --> 00:15:43,150 every Time, or especially like each, you 332 00:15:43,190 --> 00:15:46,094 know, which words came from AI 333 00:15:46,142 --> 00:15:49,054 versus my own brain. Like what? I 334 00:15:49,062 --> 00:15:51,902 don't know how that would even work. Um, but. 335 00:15:51,926 --> 00:15:54,810 Okay, so here's a more pointed question. 336 00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:58,772 Is using AI cheating? How would 337 00:15:58,796 --> 00:15:59,640 you respond? 338 00:15:59,980 --> 00:16:02,820 >> Mercedes: I do not believe so. Uh, I do feel like 339 00:16:02,860 --> 00:16:05,332 I have, uh, had people indirectly 340 00:16:05,476 --> 00:16:08,372 charge me with that, uh, which is an 341 00:16:08,396 --> 00:16:09,880 awkward conversation. 342 00:16:11,660 --> 00:16:14,580 I think it's a evolution of, uh, the 343 00:16:14,620 --> 00:16:17,492 technology. Uh, and as somebody that is 344 00:16:17,596 --> 00:16:20,452 fairly deep in technology, anyway, it 345 00:16:20,476 --> 00:16:23,188 feels like a next, uh, step to me. 346 00:16:23,324 --> 00:16:25,844 A big next step, but it's still there. 347 00:16:25,932 --> 00:16:28,756 And, um, I keep thinking about 348 00:16:28,828 --> 00:16:31,520 the fact that we have 349 00:16:32,220 --> 00:16:35,060 commentaries and writing guides and 350 00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:37,400 thesauria and 351 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,180 um, uh, podcasts that are 352 00:16:40,220 --> 00:16:42,644 talking about ideas. And there's 353 00:16:42,772 --> 00:16:45,460 Grammarly is already there, 354 00:16:45,580 --> 00:16:47,860 helping to correct the text as it 355 00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:48,680 goes. 356 00:16:49,260 --> 00:16:52,132 >> Peter: And, and that's generative AI too, by the way. And 357 00:16:52,156 --> 00:16:53,332 most people don't know that. 358 00:16:53,436 --> 00:16:56,184 >> Mercedes: Right, right. And 359 00:16:56,352 --> 00:16:59,288 so, uh, it 360 00:16:59,344 --> 00:17:01,800 feels to me my use is in 361 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,600 line with how I use all those 362 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,560 other tools. I 363 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,520 am still doing the work. Uh, 364 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,984 I'm still the 365 00:17:13,072 --> 00:17:13,820 priest. 366 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,640 It's my work and prayer at the 367 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,276 intersection of my 368 00:17:22,348 --> 00:17:25,240 context and my congregation 369 00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:28,308 that drives and 370 00:17:28,444 --> 00:17:31,108 guides where the AI is 371 00:17:31,164 --> 00:17:33,764 going. So it's just another 372 00:17:33,852 --> 00:17:36,740 way of resourcing information more 373 00:17:36,780 --> 00:17:39,412 quickly right now. How about 374 00:17:39,436 --> 00:17:40,052 you? 375 00:17:40,236 --> 00:17:43,130 >> Peter: Well, yeah, I just think the Grammarly example is a really great one, 376 00:17:43,130 --> 00:17:45,972 um, because they, uh, yeah, that's a 377 00:17:45,996 --> 00:17:48,564 tool that people often accept as completely 378 00:17:48,612 --> 00:17:51,464 valid, uh, even if they think that generative AI 379 00:17:51,512 --> 00:17:54,184 might not be. And not realizing that that is generative 380 00:17:54,232 --> 00:17:56,910 AI. Similarly, you know that whenever, uh, 381 00:17:57,208 --> 00:18:00,200 you're composing something in an email or 382 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,888 in a word processor these days, there's that 383 00:18:03,024 --> 00:18:05,912 the word processor will try to complete the sentence for 384 00:18:05,936 --> 00:18:08,750 you and you can just press tab to autocomplete. Um, 385 00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:11,432 and you know, that's, that's also generative 386 00:18:11,496 --> 00:18:14,296 AI, and I think people don't realize that. So it's like it's 387 00:18:14,328 --> 00:18:17,312 impossible to, you know, disclose every single time. But. 388 00:18:17,456 --> 00:18:19,856 But yeah, having some sort of generative general 389 00:18:19,928 --> 00:18:22,320 disclosure is helpful. So people know. 390 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,216 >> Mercedes: Wait, wait, before we go on, I want to come back to something 391 00:18:25,288 --> 00:18:28,224 on this one. Um, because again, we tend 392 00:18:28,272 --> 00:18:30,576 to focus on the sermon writing. And I'll be quite 393 00:18:30,608 --> 00:18:33,536 honest, uh, to me, the sermon writing 394 00:18:33,568 --> 00:18:36,560 has become a red herring. It is. I'm barely 395 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,632 using it, uh, for the sermon writing side of 396 00:18:39,656 --> 00:18:42,368 it. Uh, I, you know, using it for 397 00:18:42,424 --> 00:18:44,860 policies and other, uh, 398 00:18:44,860 --> 00:18:47,748 resources, uh, to get things done around 399 00:18:47,804 --> 00:18:50,612 the church. I, uh, know policies are boring. 400 00:18:50,756 --> 00:18:53,572 But when I get. I think 401 00:18:53,596 --> 00:18:56,276 we've said this in a previous episode, but I have to reiterate 402 00:18:56,308 --> 00:18:59,300 it. When we have to sit down to write a 403 00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:02,292 business document for the church, the first 404 00:19:02,396 --> 00:19:05,268 step is almost always to go 405 00:19:05,324 --> 00:19:08,180 out and search for templates and, 406 00:19:08,220 --> 00:19:10,756 or other churches business 407 00:19:10,908 --> 00:19:13,788 document of whatever kind it is, from 408 00:19:13,844 --> 00:19:15,800 bylaws to 409 00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:19,100 policies. You know, all of 410 00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:22,108 this is, uh, we 411 00:19:22,164 --> 00:19:24,684 go borrow somebody else's and we revise 412 00:19:24,732 --> 00:19:27,372 it. Uh, and depending on what it 413 00:19:27,396 --> 00:19:30,364 is, most of the time, if it's a business 414 00:19:30,452 --> 00:19:33,340 document, somebody else wrote it a long time ago 415 00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:35,804 and we just keep revising it now. 416 00:19:35,892 --> 00:19:38,460 Caveat, you know, if somebody has written 417 00:19:38,540 --> 00:19:41,294 a liturgy and we're 418 00:19:41,342 --> 00:19:44,030 taking that in and revising it, then we do 419 00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:46,830 credit that work. But for the, for the 420 00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:49,582 business documents and things like that, I mean, is it 421 00:19:49,606 --> 00:19:52,590 cheating? We've never called it cheating to go search 422 00:19:52,670 --> 00:19:55,470 for all of those sample templates and 423 00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:57,614 other church policies that are publicly 424 00:19:57,662 --> 00:20:00,446 accessible. So it doesn't 425 00:20:00,478 --> 00:20:03,374 feel like cheating to get uh, AI 426 00:20:03,422 --> 00:20:05,982 to do that search and compile that information for 427 00:20:06,006 --> 00:20:06,570 me. 428 00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:09,998 >> Peter: Yeah, so really I just think we need to take full 429 00:20:10,054 --> 00:20:12,910 responsibility for whatever we put 430 00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:14,330 out into the world. 431 00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:17,530 Um, but yeah, uh, there are 432 00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:21,118 a variety of things we're always copying and learning from 433 00:20:21,174 --> 00:20:24,142 and adapting a metaphor that I love that 434 00:20:24,166 --> 00:20:26,798 you know about, but I'll share. Uh, now is 435 00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:29,300 Tesla full self driving mode? Um, 436 00:20:30,790 --> 00:20:33,646 I don't have one myself, but I learned about this when I rode 437 00:20:33,678 --> 00:20:36,250 in a Tesla for the first time about six months ago. 438 00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:39,322 You, you, you have to keep your hands on the 439 00:20:39,346 --> 00:20:42,170 wheel. Uh, but the car will do all the driving 440 00:20:42,250 --> 00:20:44,794 for you. And the person 441 00:20:44,882 --> 00:20:47,658 legally responsible if the car makes a mistake is 442 00:20:47,714 --> 00:20:50,346 the driver. So you know, you're, 443 00:20:50,458 --> 00:20:52,634 you're the driver in 444 00:20:52,802 --> 00:20:55,530 every way of, uh, 445 00:20:55,530 --> 00:20:58,234 interpreting what that means, except you're not physically doing the 446 00:20:58,242 --> 00:21:00,950 motions. The car is doing it for you. And 447 00:21:01,490 --> 00:21:04,444 so if you're doing your job ethically and faithfully, 448 00:21:04,492 --> 00:21:07,452 getting from A to B, whether that's, you know, driving from place to A 449 00:21:07,476 --> 00:21:10,050 to B, or in a work, um, 450 00:21:10,724 --> 00:21:13,160 process or whatever it may be, 451 00:21:13,170 --> 00:21:16,156 um, there it's uh, important 452 00:21:16,228 --> 00:21:19,020 to, you know, keep that mindset of this is my own 453 00:21:19,060 --> 00:21:22,060 responsibility. Uh, how could you know, keeping 454 00:21:22,220 --> 00:21:24,380 still doing your work ethically and 455 00:21:24,420 --> 00:21:26,828 faithfully. Um, and we have this strange 456 00:21:26,924 --> 00:21:29,842 capitalist mindset I think about know, knowledge work, where 457 00:21:29,866 --> 00:21:32,770 we believe it has to be hard for it to be 458 00:21:32,810 --> 00:21:35,442 valuable. But that doesn't really seem healthy to 459 00:21:35,466 --> 00:21:35,890 me. 460 00:21:36,010 --> 00:21:36,434 >> Mercedes: No. 461 00:21:36,522 --> 00:21:39,474 >> Peter: And I'm actually really hopeful that uh, we can maybe break out of 462 00:21:39,482 --> 00:21:42,434 that. Um, and you know, I, I 463 00:21:42,442 --> 00:21:44,960 think that's what this podcast is all about. It's, 464 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,842 uh. We're, uh, trying to figure out how to faithfully, ethically, 465 00:21:47,906 --> 00:21:50,320 and and hopefully healthily engage, uh, 466 00:21:51,202 --> 00:21:52,750 with this technology. 467 00:21:53,130 --> 00:21:55,470 >> Mercedes: Right. I mean, it goes back to the old saying, 468 00:21:55,770 --> 00:21:58,280 we. Why do we reinvent the wheel 469 00:21:58,620 --> 00:22:01,140 if what exists serves our 470 00:22:01,180 --> 00:22:03,684 needs? Uh, and I 471 00:22:03,692 --> 00:22:05,572 think, uh, in a lot of 472 00:22:05,756 --> 00:22:08,240 organizations, you do see that, 473 00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:10,628 um, understanding 474 00:22:10,724 --> 00:22:11,830 that repetition, uh, 475 00:22:13,980 --> 00:22:16,680 of work is okay. It's fine 476 00:22:17,020 --> 00:22:18,640 if it gets the job done. 477 00:22:19,020 --> 00:22:19,764 >> Peter: Sure. 478 00:22:19,932 --> 00:22:22,560 All right. Another pointed question for you. 479 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,968 Does AI written prayer count as 480 00:22:26,024 --> 00:22:26,740 prayer? 481 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,304 >> Mercedes: Well, I have used it, 482 00:22:32,392 --> 00:22:35,088 and, uh. I've 483 00:22:35,104 --> 00:22:37,792 had, like, good, uh, outputs and bad 484 00:22:37,816 --> 00:22:40,592 outputs. Um, all of them have been reviewed by 485 00:22:40,616 --> 00:22:43,376 me, and all of them have been disclosed when 486 00:22:43,448 --> 00:22:46,336 I did use them. And 487 00:22:46,488 --> 00:22:48,800 I find that, uh, 488 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,604 they. It can do 489 00:22:51,692 --> 00:22:54,084 a good job, especially with the Episcopal 490 00:22:54,132 --> 00:22:56,692 collect, since we're so formulaic 491 00:22:56,756 --> 00:22:57,220 anyway. 492 00:22:57,300 --> 00:22:57,830 >> Peter: Right. 493 00:22:57,830 --> 00:23:00,370 >> Mercedes: Um, and to cover topics that, 494 00:23:00,370 --> 00:23:03,236 uh, were thought of after 1979 495 00:23:03,308 --> 00:23:04,570 and the last BCP. Uh, 496 00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:09,124 so I have used it. I 497 00:23:09,132 --> 00:23:11,508 haven't recently. I did actually do 498 00:23:11,564 --> 00:23:14,480 something, uh, a little bit fun. 499 00:23:14,850 --> 00:23:17,120 Uh, actually, it was our Inquirers class 500 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,272 where I had it outline the 501 00:23:20,296 --> 00:23:23,152 class. I had to go in and do a fair number of revisions, but 502 00:23:23,176 --> 00:23:25,936 I asked it to pair up an opening 503 00:23:25,968 --> 00:23:28,832 and closing prayer for each session 504 00:23:28,896 --> 00:23:31,584 from the bcp, and it did a 505 00:23:31,592 --> 00:23:34,400 lousy job of that. And so one of the things we were 506 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,872 doing as we. 507 00:23:36,056 --> 00:23:38,672 >> Peter: I'm curious. We're using chatgpt or it was 508 00:23:38,696 --> 00:23:41,584 chatgpt. Okay. Because. Because I 509 00:23:41,592 --> 00:23:43,824 imagine Ask Kathy would be really good at that. 510 00:23:43,912 --> 00:23:46,760 >> Mercedes: I. I think I did an earlier version 511 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,800 with Ask Kathy, and then I lost track of that one. And 512 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,216 so it was the ChatGPT one. And 513 00:23:52,288 --> 00:23:55,112 so, uh, the funny thing was, so 514 00:23:55,136 --> 00:23:57,896 we just, uh, going into the Inquirers class, 515 00:23:58,048 --> 00:24:01,000 I just said, okay, we're gonna. I need y'all to tell 516 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,816 me what doesn't make sense here, because AI helped 517 00:24:03,848 --> 00:24:06,792 write this, and, uh, I'm kind of curious to 518 00:24:06,816 --> 00:24:09,384 see what your feedback is. And so 519 00:24:09,552 --> 00:24:12,232 we had. We had mismatched page numbers and 520 00:24:12,336 --> 00:24:14,700 some prayers that didn't match the topics. 521 00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:18,644 But it was. It was a way. Yeah, it was a. It was a way of adding a 522 00:24:18,652 --> 00:24:21,412 little bit of fun, uh, to the class as we went 523 00:24:21,436 --> 00:24:23,840 along. How about you? 524 00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:26,788 >> Peter: Well, yeah, I. I guess, uh, when I'm thinking about 525 00:24:26,924 --> 00:24:29,280 prayer, there are 526 00:24:29,660 --> 00:24:32,372 two aspects to it. You know, there's 527 00:24:32,436 --> 00:24:35,300 the, uh. Or I would say any written prayer is 528 00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:37,924 prayed twice. Once by the person 529 00:24:38,092 --> 00:24:40,590 who wrote it and then 530 00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:43,490 again by the people who read it. Ah. 531 00:24:43,490 --> 00:24:45,850 And, you know, 532 00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:48,790 both of those are completely valid. Uh, 533 00:24:48,790 --> 00:24:51,630 but even with something as. As important as 534 00:24:51,670 --> 00:24:54,170 prayer, sometimes in the life of a 535 00:24:54,550 --> 00:24:57,342 rector or parish priest or whatever, um, you 536 00:24:57,366 --> 00:25:00,302 know, you just need a prayer to share with your 537 00:25:00,326 --> 00:25:03,278 congregation for a specific moment. And so the means of getting 538 00:25:03,334 --> 00:25:06,334 there are less important as a spiritual 539 00:25:06,382 --> 00:25:08,750 practice than the end 540 00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:11,422 of having something to pray in the moment with your 541 00:25:11,446 --> 00:25:14,382 congregation. Uh, I sort of think of it a little 542 00:25:14,406 --> 00:25:17,310 bit as a pilgrimage. Is the process of writing this 543 00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:20,090 prayer going to be a pilgrimage for you? 544 00:25:20,790 --> 00:25:23,662 If so, then write it yourself. But if you need 545 00:25:23,686 --> 00:25:26,120 to just have something, um, 546 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:29,070 then you might not be prayerful in the act 547 00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:31,982 of writing it, um, but you can be prayerful in the act 548 00:25:32,006 --> 00:25:34,908 of reading it. And another 549 00:25:35,044 --> 00:25:37,980 way I think of it again, back to the car metaphor. You know, 550 00:25:38,020 --> 00:25:40,972 the difference of walking versus driving a car. Uh, you're trying 551 00:25:40,996 --> 00:25:43,900 to get from point A to point B. The car will get you there 552 00:25:43,940 --> 00:25:45,600 faster, but sometimes 553 00:25:46,740 --> 00:25:49,388 it's worth it to walk, you know, back to. Again, 554 00:25:49,444 --> 00:25:52,252 pilgrimage. Uh, walking is inherently good. It 555 00:25:52,276 --> 00:25:55,070 gets you from point A to point B. But also it's, um, 556 00:25:55,130 --> 00:25:58,012 uh, a pleasurable, m. Spiritual, 557 00:25:58,076 --> 00:26:00,940 meaningful experience. Often when we choose to do so 558 00:26:00,980 --> 00:26:03,696 intentionally. Um, um. And so, yeah, 559 00:26:03,728 --> 00:26:06,720 discern what, you know, is this a time where I want to walk there 560 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,570 or do I want to drive there? Uh, and I think that's a, uh, 561 00:26:09,630 --> 00:26:12,320 uh, an apt metaphor for using generative AI. 562 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,140 >> Mercedes: I. You know, I just had a 563 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,384 example pop into my head beyond prayer a little bit. Well, I 564 00:26:18,392 --> 00:26:21,328 mean, it's prayer. It's a short liturgy. Several 565 00:26:21,384 --> 00:26:24,192 years ago, I got a call from, uh, the 566 00:26:24,216 --> 00:26:27,168 daughter of a long time. I mean, 567 00:26:27,224 --> 00:26:29,440 lifelong Episcopalian, 568 00:26:29,940 --> 00:26:32,748 because that afternoon she was 569 00:26:32,804 --> 00:26:35,692 transitioning from her home into an 570 00:26:35,716 --> 00:26:38,380 assisted living. And of course, that was a 571 00:26:38,420 --> 00:26:41,212 difficult transition. And so the daughter 572 00:26:41,276 --> 00:26:44,156 was like, it seems like we should have a 573 00:26:44,228 --> 00:26:46,876 little liturgy that we could 574 00:26:46,948 --> 00:26:49,740 do. For the last time, she locks the 575 00:26:49,780 --> 00:26:52,684 door and makes this transition. 576 00:26:52,812 --> 00:26:55,494 And I looked 577 00:26:55,542 --> 00:26:57,810 everywhere and couldn't find, 578 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,982 uh, I found things around it, but not exactly what 579 00:27:01,006 --> 00:27:03,302 we needed. So we ended up with a couple of 580 00:27:03,326 --> 00:27:06,038 prayers. But, you know, I would have 581 00:27:06,094 --> 00:27:08,758 loved in that moment to have been able to 582 00:27:08,814 --> 00:27:11,238 resource, but I had no 583 00:27:11,294 --> 00:27:14,022 time to go find them and write 584 00:27:14,086 --> 00:27:17,046 because to write a liturgy 585 00:27:17,078 --> 00:27:19,622 like that does take, uh, it is a 586 00:27:19,646 --> 00:27:22,510 prayerful process. And 587 00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:25,470 I only had a couple hours, but it 588 00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:27,930 would have meant so much to her 589 00:27:28,790 --> 00:27:31,290 to really be able to walk through, 590 00:27:31,490 --> 00:27:34,430 uh, a liturgy like that in that moment. So 591 00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:35,050 it. 592 00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:37,166 >> Peter: Yeah. 593 00:27:37,358 --> 00:27:38,530 >> Mercedes: Opportunities. 594 00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:41,010 >> Peter: Yes. I used your discernment. 595 00:27:53,650 --> 00:27:55,962 How do you decide how frequently 596 00:27:56,026 --> 00:27:59,018 to disclose AI use? I know we've talked 597 00:27:59,034 --> 00:28:01,962 about this A bit already. So maybe we'll make this one 598 00:28:01,986 --> 00:28:02,410 quick. 599 00:28:02,530 --> 00:28:05,370 >> Mercedes: Yeah, Um, I think for the most part it 600 00:28:05,410 --> 00:28:07,786 has uh, happened with the 601 00:28:07,858 --> 00:28:10,858 changes as I am finding new ways to 602 00:28:10,914 --> 00:28:13,674 use it. Uh, then I'm letting them know 603 00:28:13,842 --> 00:28:16,442 where it might be, have supported my 604 00:28:16,466 --> 00:28:19,100 work. So that, that's mostly 605 00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:21,834 um, so as I said, it's about once a month 606 00:28:22,002 --> 00:28:24,778 that I will mention it in some way or another. 607 00:28:24,914 --> 00:28:27,658 And right now it's a regular topic on our best street 608 00:28:27,794 --> 00:28:30,698 meetings. Uh, so we're 609 00:28:30,714 --> 00:28:32,030 talking about it monthly. 610 00:28:32,530 --> 00:28:35,274 >> Peter: Great. And yeah, um, again I 611 00:28:35,362 --> 00:28:38,090 believe that uh, AI users should take 612 00:28:38,130 --> 00:28:40,870 full responsibility for their output and 613 00:28:41,050 --> 00:28:43,690 um, make general disclosures. 614 00:28:43,770 --> 00:28:46,646 But um, the reason I don't do every time is 615 00:28:46,718 --> 00:28:49,510 because, you know, um, usually I find that most people 616 00:28:49,550 --> 00:28:52,486 think something is either AI made or human 617 00:28:52,558 --> 00:28:55,542 made, when in fact it's not a binary but more of a 618 00:28:55,566 --> 00:28:58,454 spectrum. You know, anything I share with the public isn't going 619 00:28:58,462 --> 00:29:01,222 to be made solely by AI, but rather involves a 620 00:29:01,246 --> 00:29:04,054 creative back and forth between myself and the generative 621 00:29:04,102 --> 00:29:07,078 AI tool. So it's really more like 622 00:29:07,134 --> 00:29:09,690 made with a human augmented by AI. 623 00:29:09,730 --> 00:29:12,694 Um, but I think the public awareness and discourse isn't to 624 00:29:12,702 --> 00:29:15,480 the level where most people understand what that means. 625 00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:16,980 >> Mercedes: And you know, that brings us. 626 00:29:17,020 --> 00:29:19,716 I'm going to jump on the next question about that because 627 00:29:19,868 --> 00:29:22,650 that's where I get the hooked. 628 00:29:22,650 --> 00:29:25,540 Uh, I'm realizing how much 629 00:29:25,580 --> 00:29:27,120 people don't understand 630 00:29:28,780 --> 00:29:31,684 of what can be done with AI. And I 631 00:29:31,692 --> 00:29:34,628 say that because in the last couple of weeks I've sat down and 632 00:29:34,684 --> 00:29:37,604 done some one on ones with people and once they actually 633 00:29:37,692 --> 00:29:40,596 see the process they're like, oh, 634 00:29:40,708 --> 00:29:43,706 will you share that with me? Uh, I want to try that again. 635 00:29:43,828 --> 00:29:46,238 And the big one in our church 636 00:29:46,334 --> 00:29:49,262 was, I've mentioned it 637 00:29:49,286 --> 00:29:52,254 before, but using it to process and 638 00:29:52,342 --> 00:29:55,278 create a summary report of our SWOT analysis from 639 00:29:55,334 --> 00:29:58,142 our, of all the SWOT reports from our 640 00:29:58,166 --> 00:30:00,570 strategic planning. And 641 00:30:01,110 --> 00:30:03,870 once uh, they saw that it looked like a 642 00:30:03,910 --> 00:30:06,350 report and that our strategic planning 643 00:30:06,430 --> 00:30:09,150 consultant recognized and agreed with the 644 00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:11,438 findings, that that just made a huge 645 00:30:11,534 --> 00:30:14,282 difference because I, I 646 00:30:14,306 --> 00:30:17,242 don't know what they're imagining I'm doing with it when they 647 00:30:17,266 --> 00:30:20,010 are concerned. But as soon as you actually 648 00:30:20,130 --> 00:30:22,858 sit down or I sit down and say this is what I do, 649 00:30:22,914 --> 00:30:25,674 they're like, well, that makes sense that there's nothing 650 00:30:25,722 --> 00:30:28,378 wrong with that. And so that, that's been 651 00:30:28,434 --> 00:30:30,490 something, you know, uh, trying to 652 00:30:30,530 --> 00:30:33,530 navigate, uh, how people are 653 00:30:33,570 --> 00:30:36,058 feeling about it. Uh, is, is 654 00:30:36,114 --> 00:30:38,634 interesting when I don't realize or I 655 00:30:38,722 --> 00:30:41,588 don't know exactly what their knowledge 656 00:30:41,684 --> 00:30:44,350 level is. Um, but Uh, 657 00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:47,412 I am trying to be. Well, I am very open to the 658 00:30:47,436 --> 00:30:50,164 concerns and keeping track of it and 659 00:30:50,252 --> 00:30:53,252 listening. As, uh, I mentioned earlier, we 660 00:30:53,276 --> 00:30:56,004 have an open rectors forum, and 661 00:30:56,092 --> 00:30:58,948 so everybody could express. We had really good discussion around 662 00:30:59,004 --> 00:31:01,412 that. And, you know, they brought up some 663 00:31:01,436 --> 00:31:04,132 concerns that I felt like, needed to be 664 00:31:04,156 --> 00:31:06,670 addressed sooner rather than later, like the 665 00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:09,534 protection of human creatives and making sure they're 666 00:31:09,582 --> 00:31:12,270 compensated. We talked about the environmental 667 00:31:12,350 --> 00:31:14,810 impact, as we have in previous, 668 00:31:15,290 --> 00:31:17,930 uh, conversations. Uh, we, uh, 669 00:31:18,150 --> 00:31:21,150 have a few episodes here. Yep. And then, uh, the 670 00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:24,110 impact on youth. But what I heard 671 00:31:24,190 --> 00:31:26,750 clearly and is, uh, being 672 00:31:26,790 --> 00:31:29,230 reflected in our responsible use policy 673 00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:31,966 is the concern about the privacy 674 00:31:32,078 --> 00:31:34,916 of, uh, personal information. So 675 00:31:34,988 --> 00:31:37,492 that's not an area that we will be 676 00:31:37,596 --> 00:31:40,372 exploring. And so that 677 00:31:40,476 --> 00:31:43,444 is, I think it's just important to listen 678 00:31:43,492 --> 00:31:45,920 and to be open to the fact that, 679 00:31:46,210 --> 00:31:49,172 uh, they may have read something they probably have that 680 00:31:49,196 --> 00:31:52,180 I haven't had a chance to get to yet. But I just 681 00:31:52,220 --> 00:31:55,092 don't know sometimes if they have actually sat down and 682 00:31:55,116 --> 00:31:57,732 played with it either. Well, 683 00:31:57,836 --> 00:31:58,480 well. 684 00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:10,894 >> Peter: So, yeah, our next question was, and you've talked a 685 00:32:10,902 --> 00:32:13,902 bit about this, uh, so how do you build trust with your parishioners 686 00:32:13,966 --> 00:32:16,910 around something as unfamiliar and potentially controversial 687 00:32:16,990 --> 00:32:19,742 as AI? And for me, you know, the 688 00:32:19,766 --> 00:32:22,430 answer, uh, boiled down to its 689 00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:25,150 essence is just, uh, be transparent and 690 00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:27,586 invite conversation. And, you know, 691 00:32:27,658 --> 00:32:30,162 you, uh, respond pastorally to wherever that 692 00:32:30,186 --> 00:32:31,510 conversation leads. 693 00:32:32,410 --> 00:32:35,314 >> Mercedes: So I'm going to give, like, a not quite pastoral 694 00:32:35,362 --> 00:32:38,082 example. Well, it's a. It's a friend of mine who's an 695 00:32:38,106 --> 00:32:40,978 artist, uh, said, I tried AI and 696 00:32:41,034 --> 00:32:43,954 it just didn't do what I wanted it to do. I said, well, what did you want it to 697 00:32:43,962 --> 00:32:46,802 do? Uh, and y'all will probably have to look 698 00:32:46,826 --> 00:32:49,698 this up. But she said, I needed it to produce a list 699 00:32:49,754 --> 00:32:52,620 of nouns and verbs and, uh, 700 00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:55,532 descriptions or adjectives as prompts for 701 00:32:55,556 --> 00:32:58,230 a particular art project. And, uh, 702 00:32:58,372 --> 00:33:01,196 I didn't like what it produced. And I said, what 703 00:33:01,268 --> 00:33:04,140 kind of art project was it? She 704 00:33:04,180 --> 00:33:06,800 said, it's called an Exquisite Corpse. 705 00:33:07,380 --> 00:33:09,916 So I opened up ChatGPT and 706 00:33:09,988 --> 00:33:12,236 said, Describe an exquisite 707 00:33:12,268 --> 00:33:14,520 corpse project, uh, to me. 708 00:33:14,980 --> 00:33:17,820 And it did. And 709 00:33:17,860 --> 00:33:20,412 then I said, create the prompts for an 710 00:33:20,436 --> 00:33:23,300 exquisite. And it immediately did 711 00:33:23,340 --> 00:33:26,020 that. Uh, and it was 712 00:33:26,060 --> 00:33:28,884 perfect. That was all we had to do was produce 713 00:33:28,932 --> 00:33:31,892 the context, provide the context. And then she 714 00:33:31,916 --> 00:33:34,772 was like, well, that's exactly what I wanted it to do. So 715 00:33:34,796 --> 00:33:37,348 that again, is that we've said it over and over again. 716 00:33:37,484 --> 00:33:40,388 Provide the context first, and then it 717 00:33:40,444 --> 00:33:43,120 will, you know, provide some interesting information. 718 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:44,030 >> Peter: Sure, yeah. 719 00:33:44,030 --> 00:33:46,708 Um, so have you Ever 720 00:33:46,764 --> 00:33:49,604 had to adjust course based on feedback 721 00:33:49,652 --> 00:33:50,920 from your congregation? 722 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,290 >> Mercedes: I would say not specifically, 723 00:33:54,290 --> 00:33:55,030 uh, 724 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,944 on any particular timeline, because it's kind of just evolving 725 00:33:59,992 --> 00:34:02,872 as it goes. But I always 726 00:34:02,976 --> 00:34:05,672 feel like, uh, in change management 727 00:34:05,776 --> 00:34:08,540 in any organization, but especially a church, 728 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,660 part of the process is listening 729 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,024 and then giving time for ideas 730 00:34:16,072 --> 00:34:19,000 to spread within the congregation and for people to discuss and 731 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,943 process and before you assess 732 00:34:21,991 --> 00:34:24,951 when to take a next step. So that's just kind of part of integrated 733 00:34:25,015 --> 00:34:27,175 and how we change things in churches. 734 00:34:27,367 --> 00:34:30,311 >> Peter: Yeah. M. And I've shared some things about this 735 00:34:30,335 --> 00:34:33,271 already, but I think the only, uh, further thing I want to 736 00:34:33,295 --> 00:34:36,135 share is, you know, we're in this period of trial 737 00:34:36,167 --> 00:34:39,031 and error. It's a new technology, and people are figuring out, uh, how 738 00:34:39,055 --> 00:34:41,895 to make it, use how m. How to make it useful and 739 00:34:42,047 --> 00:34:45,047 how to use it well. And I think the 740 00:34:45,183 --> 00:34:47,911 main adjustments I've had to make have just been how 741 00:34:47,935 --> 00:34:50,823 I've learned to use these tools better and fix 742 00:34:50,871 --> 00:34:53,588 their mist and, you know, take better responsibility 743 00:34:53,684 --> 00:34:56,516 for them as a user of this 744 00:34:56,588 --> 00:34:59,200 technology. Um, I want to make sure that 745 00:34:59,660 --> 00:35:02,580 I, uh, you know, I'm understanding better that how 746 00:35:02,620 --> 00:35:05,428 I can take full responsibility for the output that I'm 747 00:35:05,444 --> 00:35:06,400 putting out there. 748 00:35:15,100 --> 00:35:17,860 So how does your theology of the Holy Spirit shape your 749 00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:20,584 understanding, understanding of collaboration with AI 750 00:35:20,632 --> 00:35:21,420 tools? 751 00:35:22,090 --> 00:35:24,952 >> Mercedes: Uh, I. I'm going to lean into a saying I heard 752 00:35:25,016 --> 00:35:27,220 a few years ago that I love and, 753 00:35:27,350 --> 00:35:30,280 uh, I share often now, which is I want 754 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,176 to be open to being surprised by the Holy 755 00:35:33,208 --> 00:35:35,768 Spirit, and I 756 00:35:35,824 --> 00:35:38,216 associate the Holy Spirit with 757 00:35:38,288 --> 00:35:40,700 change and discernment. 758 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,078 And so, uh, given 759 00:35:44,264 --> 00:35:47,170 my experience with technology, again, it 760 00:35:47,210 --> 00:35:50,082 kind of feels like that the Holy Spirit sometimes might throw 761 00:35:50,146 --> 00:35:52,658 things at me technology wise. Just 762 00:35:52,714 --> 00:35:55,490 like, uh, sometimes it's, 763 00:35:55,490 --> 00:35:58,402 uh, a cat lost in a parking lot that my husband told 764 00:35:58,426 --> 00:35:59,550 me not to pick up. 765 00:36:02,970 --> 00:36:05,700 >> Peter: There's a story there for sure. Um, 766 00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:08,482 yeah, so we've talked about discernment, especially in 767 00:36:08,506 --> 00:36:11,442 episode two. Uh, as long as we're using these tools 768 00:36:11,506 --> 00:36:14,290 faithfully and ethically, the Spirit works through us 769 00:36:14,330 --> 00:36:17,110 regardless of what tools we're using. Um, so, 770 00:36:17,150 --> 00:36:19,942 yeah, I would just say keep discerning. Keep using these 771 00:36:19,966 --> 00:36:22,870 tools well, and the Spirit will be there, whether you're using 772 00:36:22,910 --> 00:36:24,770 an AI tool or social media 773 00:36:25,150 --> 00:36:28,022 algorithms or word processors 774 00:36:28,086 --> 00:36:31,062 or text messages or pencil and paper. Whatever tools you 775 00:36:31,086 --> 00:36:34,070 use, the Spirit can work through us as we use 776 00:36:34,110 --> 00:36:34,690 them. 777 00:36:35,150 --> 00:36:37,894 So what would you say, Mercedes, to a church 778 00:36:37,942 --> 00:36:40,570 leader who feels curious about A.I. 779 00:36:41,310 --> 00:36:44,182 but, uh, is afraid to bring it up with their vestry or 780 00:36:44,206 --> 00:36:45,130 congregation? 781 00:36:46,070 --> 00:36:48,850 >> Mercedes: Well, you know, there's the standard, 782 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,902 uh, approach of church management in terms of 783 00:36:51,926 --> 00:36:54,250 starting with key lay leaders, 784 00:36:54,620 --> 00:36:57,230 uh, to have one on 785 00:36:57,270 --> 00:37:00,222 one conversations, uh, and get, and take 786 00:37:00,246 --> 00:37:02,570 the temperature of your organization before 787 00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:05,660 you do a presentation. And I think, uh, 788 00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:08,810 that's always an important part of change management. 789 00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:12,222 But I think after my experience over the 790 00:37:12,246 --> 00:37:13,690 last few weeks, 791 00:37:14,260 --> 00:37:17,228 um, I would be ready, 792 00:37:17,260 --> 00:37:19,548 uh, with some examples 793 00:37:19,724 --> 00:37:22,684 because again, every time 794 00:37:22,772 --> 00:37:25,680 I have actually shown an example 795 00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:28,876 of what I provide 796 00:37:28,948 --> 00:37:31,820 and what AI responds and how 797 00:37:31,860 --> 00:37:34,716 we shape something together, or even 798 00:37:34,788 --> 00:37:37,436 just here's the context, here's the question, 799 00:37:37,588 --> 00:37:40,320 and, oh, look, here's some information 800 00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:43,380 that has changed minds very 801 00:37:43,420 --> 00:37:45,520 quickly. So, 802 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,660 uh, you know, but a lot of it is going to 803 00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:50,948 be, uh, don't take it 804 00:37:51,004 --> 00:37:53,908 personally if folks are criticizing AI, they're 805 00:37:53,924 --> 00:37:56,680 criticizing AI, not us. Um, 806 00:37:56,700 --> 00:37:59,604 and, uh, also continue 807 00:37:59,692 --> 00:38:02,228 to research and be open and 808 00:38:02,284 --> 00:38:04,484 honest about acknowledging the 809 00:38:04,572 --> 00:38:07,212 risks, uh, and the concerns 810 00:38:07,276 --> 00:38:09,900 and uh, having a willingness 811 00:38:10,060 --> 00:38:12,572 to adapt the strategy or a 812 00:38:12,596 --> 00:38:15,440 policy to meet those risks and concerns. 813 00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:19,420 >> Peter: Sure, yeah. And I would just add, you 814 00:38:19,460 --> 00:38:22,412 know, if you're thinking about bringing this up with your 815 00:38:22,436 --> 00:38:25,164 congregation, play around with it, uh, get a solid 816 00:38:25,212 --> 00:38:28,156 understanding of how generative AI can be useful 817 00:38:28,268 --> 00:38:30,716 and think deeply about its ethical and faithful 818 00:38:30,748 --> 00:38:33,350 use. Um, of course that's what we're trying to do here on this 819 00:38:33,390 --> 00:38:36,290 podcast. So keep listening. And 820 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,734 uh, it's really, you know, it is a contentious 821 00:38:39,782 --> 00:38:42,230 topic, and it's a bit too much of a contentious 822 00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:44,518 topic to bring up without some 823 00:38:44,574 --> 00:38:47,110 preparation. And that involves talking to your 824 00:38:47,150 --> 00:38:50,102 congregation in one on ones, but also having a 825 00:38:50,126 --> 00:38:53,014 deeper understanding of how the technology actually works. 826 00:38:53,142 --> 00:38:55,942 So when you can, when you feel that you can stand on 827 00:38:55,966 --> 00:38:58,780 somewhat solid ground, whatever that looks like in your 828 00:38:58,820 --> 00:39:01,532 context, and still listen deeply to the 829 00:39:01,556 --> 00:39:04,364 concerns of your parishioners, whatever they may have, 830 00:39:04,452 --> 00:39:06,812 that's when you can engage in a helpful 831 00:39:06,876 --> 00:39:09,580 congregation conversation with your 832 00:39:09,620 --> 00:39:10,396 congregation. 833 00:39:10,508 --> 00:39:12,680 >> Mercedes: Absolutely. Because, uh, again, 834 00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:15,932 when we said this many times, it is 835 00:39:16,036 --> 00:39:18,970 ultimately about what it's doing, uh, 836 00:39:18,970 --> 00:39:21,350 to help us with human, uh, 837 00:39:21,764 --> 00:39:24,620 relationships, not to undermine them 838 00:39:24,660 --> 00:39:27,100 or to bypass them. So, 839 00:39:27,350 --> 00:39:30,304 uh, we're not taking that part of change 840 00:39:30,392 --> 00:39:32,848 out of the process. We still need 841 00:39:32,904 --> 00:39:35,600 to, uh, talk to humans and work with 842 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,592 humans and listen and be, uh, and be 843 00:39:38,616 --> 00:39:40,500 attentive to their concerns. 844 00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:52,290 >> Peter: All right, so shall we wrap it up with the baptismal 845 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:52,958 covenant? 846 00:39:53,054 --> 00:39:56,046 >> Mercedes: Absolutely. I'll take a little turn here on the question 847 00:39:56,118 --> 00:39:56,926 asking. 848 00:39:57,118 --> 00:39:57,790 >> Peter: Okay. 849 00:39:57,870 --> 00:40:00,382 >> Mercedes: All right. What, uh, do you think about 850 00:40:00,566 --> 00:40:03,454 continuing in the apostles teaching and fellowship and in 851 00:40:03,462 --> 00:40:05,730 the breaking of the bread and in the prayers? 852 00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:09,360 >> Peter: Well, I guess I just think that helping, um, 853 00:40:09,742 --> 00:40:12,718 your community navigate this change that we're all 854 00:40:12,774 --> 00:40:15,774 going through, uh, as generative AI 855 00:40:15,902 --> 00:40:18,768 transforms the world around us, also helps them 856 00:40:18,824 --> 00:40:21,100 throughout the rest of their lives and 857 00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,592 living, uh, into the modern world. And how great could that be 858 00:40:24,616 --> 00:40:27,600 if churches are a place that serve, um, their 859 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,352 communities in, uh, navigating 860 00:40:30,416 --> 00:40:33,152 this transition. So there's 861 00:40:33,296 --> 00:40:36,210 a lot of teaching that goes on there, but also a, 862 00:40:36,210 --> 00:40:38,768 ah, teaching about how to use this faithfully and 863 00:40:38,824 --> 00:40:41,664 well. Any disruption will 864 00:40:41,752 --> 00:40:44,666 lead to pain. Um, and, 865 00:40:44,738 --> 00:40:47,594 and that's a, a hard fact of life. 866 00:40:47,682 --> 00:40:50,362 And so how can we minimize pain? How can 867 00:40:50,386 --> 00:40:52,890 we care for those who are experiencing that 868 00:40:52,930 --> 00:40:55,898 pain? Um, you know, uh, that's, that's 869 00:40:55,914 --> 00:40:57,258 what the church is there for. 870 00:40:57,394 --> 00:41:00,234 >> Mercedes: Absolutely. I think I would just add 871 00:41:00,322 --> 00:41:01,860 to that that, uh, 872 00:41:03,810 --> 00:41:06,522 we, we, we, we say all the time 873 00:41:06,626 --> 00:41:09,536 that, uh, worship is not necessarily, necessarily 874 00:41:09,568 --> 00:41:12,192 what happens in the nave of the 875 00:41:12,216 --> 00:41:15,040 sanctuary, but how it prepares us to go out into 876 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,824 the world to serve our ministry. And 877 00:41:17,912 --> 00:41:20,560 we can't control the pace of change in 878 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,248 society. It is getting, uh, more 879 00:41:23,304 --> 00:41:25,840 complex every day. And 880 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,752 I hate to discard a 881 00:41:28,776 --> 00:41:31,440 potential technology that could help 882 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,224 us better engage, uh, in 883 00:41:34,312 --> 00:41:36,720 ministry and evangelism and 884 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,240 connecting with people where they are. 885 00:41:40,660 --> 00:41:43,324 Okay, next up, will you persevere in resisting 886 00:41:43,372 --> 00:41:46,236 evil and whenever you fall into sin, repent and return 887 00:41:46,308 --> 00:41:47,200 to the Lord? 888 00:41:48,180 --> 00:41:51,100 >> Peter: Yeah, I mean, uh, this is a big shift we're all going 889 00:41:51,140 --> 00:41:53,980 through, so you have to navigate it transparently and 890 00:41:54,020 --> 00:41:56,700 pastorally. And, uh, we're all going to make 891 00:41:56,740 --> 00:41:59,532 mistakes. I've made mistakes. I've, you 892 00:41:59,556 --> 00:42:02,200 know, in. Not in any big ways, but, 893 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,560 um, there are times where I know I've 894 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,944 failed, um, to check, you know, everything it put out and 895 00:42:08,032 --> 00:42:10,872 realized there was a mistake in email or something. 896 00:42:10,976 --> 00:42:13,784 And, and taking responsibility for that, 897 00:42:13,872 --> 00:42:16,472 taking a pastoral approach to whatever the 898 00:42:16,496 --> 00:42:19,060 consequences might be. And 899 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,488 yeah, um, I think transparency 900 00:42:22,584 --> 00:42:25,320 and care for others is how we can, um, best 901 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:26,888 resist evil in this case. 902 00:42:27,024 --> 00:42:29,912 >> Mercedes: Absolutely. And then, you know, we've said before it's an 903 00:42:29,936 --> 00:42:32,858 evolving technology, so we recognize that 904 00:42:32,914 --> 00:42:35,562 more information is coming out every day. And 905 00:42:35,666 --> 00:42:38,650 sometimes we're going to find ourselves in a place where what 906 00:42:38,690 --> 00:42:41,610 we're doing might not have been the best idea. So the best 907 00:42:41,650 --> 00:42:44,458 we can do, uh, is when we know better, 908 00:42:44,514 --> 00:42:47,450 do better. Okay. 909 00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:50,330 Uh, will you proclaim by word and example the good news 910 00:42:50,370 --> 00:42:51,670 of God in Christ? 911 00:42:53,010 --> 00:42:55,786 >> Peter: Yeah. And we've talked about how AI can be 912 00:42:55,858 --> 00:42:58,830 a tool that helps us serve that 913 00:42:58,870 --> 00:43:01,710 purpose. But in regards to, you know, 914 00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:04,734 understanding it, ah, theologically and communally, like, we 915 00:43:04,742 --> 00:43:07,214 have to be really clear that, you know, AI will not save 916 00:43:07,262 --> 00:43:10,040 us. Ah, it is, it is a tool. Uh, 917 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,878 there Is no known tool that can. 918 00:43:12,934 --> 00:43:15,678 Will save us from who we are as human 919 00:43:15,734 --> 00:43:18,686 beings. But AI can help us to do God's 920 00:43:18,718 --> 00:43:21,582 work in the world. And you know, uh, God gives us 921 00:43:21,606 --> 00:43:24,404 tools all the time. And I'm excited to see, see and 922 00:43:24,492 --> 00:43:27,364 continue learning about what the Holy Spirit is up to and the 923 00:43:27,372 --> 00:43:29,012 creation of new tools all the time. 924 00:43:29,116 --> 00:43:32,020 >> Mercedes: Absolutely. Uh, I've always found that my call 925 00:43:32,060 --> 00:43:34,660 is at the intersection of technology and 926 00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:37,140 ministry. And in particular right 927 00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:40,180 now, um, I see opportunity with AI 928 00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:43,172 for improving the things that we 929 00:43:43,276 --> 00:43:46,212 do more in the quote unquote, running the 930 00:43:46,236 --> 00:43:48,400 church side of, 931 00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:50,910 um, side of things. Better 932 00:43:50,950 --> 00:43:52,930 administration, better communications, 933 00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:56,942 new, um, ways to evangelize. I, uh, just think there's some 934 00:43:56,966 --> 00:43:59,838 great opportunities there. Will you 935 00:43:59,894 --> 00:44:02,174 strive for justice and 936 00:44:02,262 --> 00:44:05,198 peace? Did I skip one? I did. 937 00:44:05,254 --> 00:44:08,142 Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as 938 00:44:08,166 --> 00:44:10,654 yourself? How can I miss the greatest 939 00:44:10,702 --> 00:44:11,570 commandment? 940 00:44:12,070 --> 00:44:15,032 >> Peter: Right. But I mean, it is great and it's are 941 00:44:15,056 --> 00:44:17,848 relatively simple. I think transparency is care. 942 00:44:17,984 --> 00:44:20,328 And you know, um, having 943 00:44:20,384 --> 00:44:23,304 transparency, having pastoral care for folks who 944 00:44:23,312 --> 00:44:26,232 are navigating this transition with us, um, it 945 00:44:26,256 --> 00:44:29,160 really boils down to that. And then. Yeah, for that last 946 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,184 one, um, do you have more things to say? Well, for either of 947 00:44:32,192 --> 00:44:32,740 those. 948 00:44:32,850 --> 00:44:35,784 >> Mercedes: Ah, well, I mean, if you're not willing to be authentic 949 00:44:35,832 --> 00:44:38,760 about saying that you're doing it, then you might not want to be doing 950 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,530 it. That, you know, that's the transparency. 951 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,130 >> Peter: Yeah, sure. Yeah. 952 00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:46,430 >> Mercedes: Oh. Will you, Will you strive for justice and peace among 953 00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:48,878 all people and respect the dignity of every human 954 00:44:48,934 --> 00:44:49,530 being? 955 00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:53,278 >> Peter: Yeah. I don't think I have anything more to say than all the things we've 956 00:44:53,294 --> 00:44:54,798 already said there. What about you? 957 00:44:54,934 --> 00:44:57,822 >> Mercedes: I would only add that, uh, as 958 00:44:57,846 --> 00:45:00,638 with all change, uh, there 959 00:45:00,694 --> 00:45:02,910 is going to be concerns and 960 00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:05,950 anxiety and um. I was actually 961 00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:08,782 talking to somebody earlier today and uh, we were 962 00:45:08,806 --> 00:45:10,570 reflecting on the fact that 963 00:45:11,830 --> 00:45:14,798 that comes from a place of love. People 964 00:45:14,854 --> 00:45:17,790 get, uh, anxious about change because they love 965 00:45:17,830 --> 00:45:20,814 their church, they love the traditions, they love the worship, 966 00:45:20,862 --> 00:45:23,370 they love the community. And 967 00:45:23,390 --> 00:45:26,350 uh, I think it's important for us just to remember 968 00:45:26,430 --> 00:45:28,890 and reframe that 969 00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:32,330 we're all working towards community, uh, 970 00:45:32,886 --> 00:45:33,530 here. 971 00:45:34,070 --> 00:45:37,022 >> Peter: Right. I'll actually add one more thing that I just thought of 972 00:45:37,046 --> 00:45:39,614 that I should make more clear. I talked about how 973 00:45:39,702 --> 00:45:41,930 disruption brings pain. And 974 00:45:43,220 --> 00:45:45,356 there, you know, any, any big 975 00:45:45,508 --> 00:45:48,492 technological disruption is going to create the 976 00:45:48,516 --> 00:45:51,148 loss of jobs. And we've seen that with social 977 00:45:51,204 --> 00:45:53,790 media and the way that, you know, um, 978 00:45:53,790 --> 00:45:56,492 communications, uh, institutions like 979 00:45:56,516 --> 00:45:59,190 journalism have. Have been so, uh, 980 00:45:59,190 --> 00:46:01,740 heavily impacted by that. You know, we don't know the full 981 00:46:01,780 --> 00:46:04,732 replication repercussions of what generative AI is going 982 00:46:04,756 --> 00:46:07,532 to have. But artists are definitely feeling the 983 00:46:07,556 --> 00:46:10,150 pain. And I think there is a. 984 00:46:11,330 --> 00:46:14,202 There's a very important role in the church of, you know, 985 00:46:14,226 --> 00:46:17,082 caring for people who are experiencing that pain. And I 986 00:46:17,106 --> 00:46:20,042 just want to underline, uh, that thing that I 987 00:46:20,066 --> 00:46:21,658 already said before. Yeah. 988 00:46:21,754 --> 00:46:24,506 >> Mercedes: When it comes to justice and peace, I think. Yeah. That. That's. 989 00:46:24,538 --> 00:46:26,474 That's really important. Thank you. 990 00:46:26,642 --> 00:46:27,390 >> Peter: Yeah. 991 00:46:27,890 --> 00:46:30,890 >> Mercedes: Okay, well, we've come to the end here, so 992 00:46:30,930 --> 00:46:33,882 here's the takeaway. Um, if you're going to work 993 00:46:33,906 --> 00:46:36,634 with AI, we recommend starting to communicate 994 00:46:36,682 --> 00:46:39,346 early and often. Uh, and be 995 00:46:39,418 --> 00:46:42,322 transparent with your congregation. Uh, if I 996 00:46:42,346 --> 00:46:45,122 can borrow an old phrase. Ah. From church 997 00:46:45,186 --> 00:46:48,002 communications, uh, figure out how to say it at 998 00:46:48,026 --> 00:46:50,150 least three times in three different ways. 999 00:46:52,430 --> 00:46:55,250 Uh, it is helpful. Uh, but if you did find 1000 00:46:55,290 --> 00:46:58,130 this helpful, uh, we hope that you will 1001 00:46:58,170 --> 00:47:00,770 share it and leave a review. And don't forget to 1002 00:47:00,890 --> 00:47:02,306 subscribe to aichurch. 1003 00:47:02,338 --> 00:47:05,020 >> Peter: Toolkit as, uh, always some 1004 00:47:05,060 --> 00:47:06,060 listener homework. 1005 00:47:06,140 --> 00:47:08,840 Think about your own organization, where you work. 1006 00:47:09,140 --> 00:47:12,012 Do you need to have some transparent conversations with leaders in 1007 00:47:12,036 --> 00:47:14,988 your congregation about using generative AI? 1008 00:47:15,084 --> 00:47:17,884 And could you use this opportunity to support 1009 00:47:17,972 --> 00:47:20,540 them in their own journey of learning to use 1010 00:47:20,580 --> 00:47:23,564 generative AI? So reflect on all of that. 1011 00:47:23,732 --> 00:47:26,620 >> Mercedes: All right, thank you for joining us for episode six 1012 00:47:26,740 --> 00:47:29,708 of the AI Church Toolkit podcast. We are 1013 00:47:29,764 --> 00:47:32,720 grateful to the Try Tank Research Institute for 1014 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,380 making this podcast possible. 1015 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,664 >> Peter: And remember, AI is a tool, but our mission 1016 00:47:37,712 --> 00:47:40,624 remains rooted in faith and community. See 1017 00:47:40,632 --> 00:47:41,580 you next time. 1018 00:47:57,490 --> 00:47:57,730 >> Mercedes: Sa.