WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:06.011 --> 00:00:12.071 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Welcome to Transformative Principle, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading. 00:00:12.581 --> 00:00:14.081 I'm your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:14.081 --> 00:00:16.781 You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones. 00:00:35.154 --> 00:00:43.224 Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to Transformative Principal, and actually this is also going to be simulcast on resilient schools. 00:00:43.569 --> 00:00:46.479 That's the beauty of having two awesome podcasts. 00:00:46.509 --> 00:00:47.919 I'm your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:48.219 --> 00:00:49.569 Grateful to be here with you. 00:00:50.049 --> 00:00:58.299 Both of these shows are proud members of the BE Podcast Network, where there's a show for everybody who is interested in anything in education. 00:00:58.749 --> 00:01:02.799 And so go check out all of our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com. 00:01:03.369 --> 00:01:09.969 Today we are continuing a conversation from last week where Barb SOLs and Aaron Bailey. 00:01:10.254 --> 00:01:18.684 From NAMI and R, respect, respectively, we're talking about literacy and mental health. 00:01:18.894 --> 00:01:21.804 So today I'm gonna just interview Barb. 00:01:22.164 --> 00:01:27.624 She is the National Director of Innovation for the National Alliance on Mental Illness. 00:01:27.954 --> 00:01:35.784 She's passionate, passionate about mental health, awareness, education, and advocacy, especially after the loss of a friend to suicide. 00:01:36.354 --> 00:01:37.134 Barb has lived. 00:01:37.554 --> 00:01:47.034 Barb's lived experience developing a mental health condition as a young person also motivates her work, improving outcomes for young people with mental health concerns. 00:01:47.604 --> 00:02:04.649 There's a whole bunch of really cool stuff that Barb has done, and I encourage you to check out the rest of her stuff at the show notes for this podcast at Transformative Principal dot org or resilient schools.com where we have more show notes and other interesting links to the things that we are talking about. 00:02:05.904 --> 00:02:07.974 Barb, welcome to the podcast. 00:02:07.974 --> 00:02:08.934 So great to have you here. 00:02:09.164 --> 00:02:10.649 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Thank you so much for having me. 00:02:11.634 --> 00:02:17.964 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: So last week after you and Aaron talked, I had a whole bunch of questions that I want to get into. 00:02:17.964 --> 00:02:26.184 And before we do that, I just want to start out by saying that this, uh, podcast is a part of the Macy's mission, everyone. 00:02:26.514 --> 00:02:30.624 Which is a social commitment focusing on creating brighter futures. 00:02:30.684 --> 00:02:42.204 And Macy's has partnered with Reading is Fundamental and the National Alliance on Mental Illness for a campaign that will help students head back to school with confidence and support that they need. 00:02:42.234 --> 00:02:46.584 And they provide books and mental health resources to children nationwide. 00:02:47.184 --> 00:02:55.554 And, uh, tell me just a little bit about that Macy's collaboration and what that means to you as the director of renovation at nami. 00:02:55.754 --> 00:03:02.714 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Yeah, I'm so grateful for Macy's continued partnership with NAMI and for our connection. 00:03:02.714 --> 00:03:07.004 Now with R we have such aligned missions. 00:03:07.034 --> 00:03:14.864 Um, both mental health and literacy are all about early intervention for better outcomes for young people and how to shape a child's future. 00:03:15.164 --> 00:03:21.764 Um, so we have this roundup at the register initiative, which may seem small, but it makes a really big impact. 00:03:22.119 --> 00:03:30.314 Um, so we're really grateful to Macy's for just recognizing that thriving communities start with strong, supported kids. 00:03:31.539 --> 00:03:39.099 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Yeah, that is absolutely true and that that's essential, um, for, for kids to have support and for us to be able to do that. 00:03:39.099 --> 00:03:43.569 So let's get into a couple things that we kind of hinted at in the last conversation. 00:03:43.929 --> 00:03:47.529 Um, but I, I want to talk a little bit more about them. 00:03:47.589 --> 00:03:52.539 Um, and the first one is, is that, um, a lot of mental health issues happen. 00:03:53.409 --> 00:03:55.689 Younger than we think. 00:03:55.839 --> 00:04:05.049 And when you think about it, you're like, oh yeah, that makes sense because something bad happens in your childhood and then it creates a mental health issue, or you have it genetically. 00:04:05.049 --> 00:04:06.969 So literally it starts a conception. 00:04:07.389 --> 00:04:12.549 And so, uh, tell, talk to us about that part of it, of, of these things starting early. 00:04:13.554 --> 00:04:26.244 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Yeah, I mentioned this when we spoke before, but I'm gonna repeat it 'cause I think it's really important and it's that half of all mental health conditions begin by age 14 and 75% by age 24. 00:04:26.244 --> 00:04:28.614 So it really does start young and. 00:04:29.454 --> 00:04:45.504 If you look at the numbers, about 16.5% of youth six or six to 17 experience a mental health condition, I think that number is probably higher just because early detection is hard and probably under reported. 00:04:45.864 --> 00:04:54.054 Um, but I also wanna say of those kids that we know about, only half of them are getting the treatment that they deserve. 00:04:54.444 --> 00:05:04.224 And we actually know that the average delay between the onset of a mental health condition and the treatment of that mental health condition is 11 years. 00:05:04.374 --> 00:05:09.564 So when you're talking about kids, that has a huge impact on their outcomes and their lives. 00:05:11.424 --> 00:05:12.594 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Well, and the thing. 00:05:12.594 --> 00:05:16.584 Here is that this is where we, we sometimes struggle. 00:05:16.584 --> 00:05:20.304 Like when I was a kid it was like, toughen up and get over. 00:05:20.304 --> 00:05:22.224 It was how we responded. 00:05:22.644 --> 00:05:26.304 And to a certain extent that is appropriate. 00:05:26.304 --> 00:05:34.134 And so where do you draw the line between a mental health issue and like, life is just tough. 00:05:34.434 --> 00:05:36.114 How do you, how do you manage that? 00:05:36.739 --> 00:05:40.669 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: You know, it's challenging and we hear it from parents and caregivers all the time. 00:05:40.669 --> 00:05:45.319 Like, is this a normal challenge or is this something else? 00:05:45.649 --> 00:05:56.664 Um, what I will say is that, um, there are some distinct warning signs that parents can look out for, and I will, there's like, I. plus. 00:05:56.664 --> 00:06:05.574 But if you go to nami.org/signs, so n aami.org/signs, you can find some things to look for. 00:06:06.054 --> 00:06:11.454 But what I would say just broadly is you are looking for changes. 00:06:11.664 --> 00:06:19.794 So if you're looking for, um, you know, say a kid is normally really outgoing and having a great time in school and. 00:06:20.454 --> 00:06:25.644 For a few weeks and maybe more, and maybe even longer than that, they start withdrawing. 00:06:25.974 --> 00:06:27.984 And they're not enjoying school anymore. 00:06:27.984 --> 00:06:34.254 They're not talking to anyone they, you know, call, uh, call home with bellyaches saying, I wanna come home. 00:06:35.274 --> 00:06:38.424 something you're, you're looking for as a change. 00:06:38.484 --> 00:06:43.884 Um, and so that's just one example and people often say, okay, so I saw this change. 00:06:43.884 --> 00:06:44.964 Now what do I do? 00:06:45.339 --> 00:06:49.149 Um, the first thing you can do is call your pediatrician. 00:06:49.449 --> 00:06:53.709 Uh, a lot of people think, oh, now I have to call a psychiatrist and like, figure this all out and what do I do? 00:06:53.919 --> 00:07:05.679 A pediatrician is someone who is taking care of your kid that you know and trust and can help guide you through that process, um, and connect you to the resources that your child might need. 00:07:06.159 --> 00:07:14.859 Um, but I will say even if you're not yet worried about your child, it's still worthwhile to start talking about mental health. 00:07:15.339 --> 00:07:24.999 Early, you know, you wanna mark yourself as a safe person to come to if they do end up facing mental health challenges. 00:07:25.329 --> 00:07:28.959 Um, we have a lot of great conversation starters, again, at our website. 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:31.179 I, I hate to be the one who always does the like. 00:07:31.929 --> 00:07:32.409 here. 00:07:32.619 --> 00:07:38.559 Um, but we do, um, and a lot of great ways to open the conversation so that it's ongoing. 00:07:38.769 --> 00:07:44.679 And so when you see something and you want to bring it up with your child, it's not out of the blue. 00:07:44.949 --> 00:07:50.079 It's something you've been talking about and you're comfortable and they're comfortable talking about with you. 00:07:51.994 --> 00:07:52.384 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Yeah. 00:07:52.444 --> 00:08:05.674 Uh, well that is something that if, if it is a taboo subject, then it's even harder to, to like know if you should say just get over it or, or if it's really an issue. 00:08:05.674 --> 00:08:14.374 And, and I think this is where the school officials and parents really struggled because you may not. 00:08:15.204 --> 00:08:20.634 You know, a lot of the things when you, when you look at these signs, you're like, yeah, that describes a teenager. 00:08:20.814 --> 00:08:30.084 And, and so it's tough because if you don't know that kid very well, if you're a teacher then you might be confused. 00:08:30.114 --> 00:08:38.124 But if you're a parent, uh, you might really be confused because they could just be going through puberty and it could be something bigger. 00:08:38.124 --> 00:08:41.124 So that's why I think talking to a doctor is worthwhile. 00:08:41.784 --> 00:08:50.184 But the other thing I would add is you should probably have a, a safe person to talk to yourself about Hey, this is what's going on. 00:08:50.184 --> 00:08:51.444 Do you think I need to worry about it? 00:08:51.444 --> 00:09:00.204 And that person doesn't have to necessarily be a therapist, but just someone else that's outside of your own head saying, uh, you know, I'm seeing these signs in my kid. 00:09:00.204 --> 00:09:01.164 Should I be worried? 00:09:01.164 --> 00:09:03.834 And they can say, I don't think you need to be worried. 00:09:03.834 --> 00:09:05.364 I see your kid and I don't see that. 00:09:05.364 --> 00:09:09.864 Or maybe you should be worried because I saw that too and I didn't wanna say anything 'cause I didn't wanna offend you. 00:09:10.419 --> 00:09:11.769 And those things are real. 00:09:11.769 --> 00:09:17.229 So I would suggest also having a another adult that you trust that you can talk to about that. 00:09:17.259 --> 00:09:19.124 Is, is that a good idea or am I crazy? 00:09:19.369 --> 00:09:21.139 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Oh no, that's a perfect idea. 00:09:21.139 --> 00:09:22.549 And in fact, kind of what Nami. 00:09:22.819 --> 00:09:24.739 Built on is support. 00:09:24.739 --> 00:09:34.249 And uh, we started actually as parents of kids with mental health conditions who were being misunderstood and the parents were being blamed for their mental illnesses. 00:09:34.579 --> 00:09:36.919 Um, so it was really a support group to begin with. 00:09:36.979 --> 00:09:42.949 Um, and so when you find, and this is something we say all the time, that you are not alone. 00:09:43.189 --> 00:09:44.689 You then have hope 00:09:45.369 --> 00:09:45.579 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:09:45.769 --> 00:09:47.809 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: and you can start to problem solve. 00:09:48.229 --> 00:09:49.309 Um, and so. 00:09:49.884 --> 00:09:50.694 Absolutely. 00:09:50.694 --> 00:09:56.424 Having community and support is so important, and you can, you can find that in, in a lot of different ways. 00:09:56.574 --> 00:10:07.074 And I would say to your point about educators, parents and teachers are allies in this and open communication about kids' mental health okay. 00:10:07.074 --> 00:10:13.704 And it doesn't mean either the parent, neither the parent nor the educator are doctors. 00:10:14.079 --> 00:10:14.589 Right. 00:10:14.619 --> 00:10:17.439 And you should never feel like you have to be one. 00:10:17.529 --> 00:10:20.259 You should not be the one diagnosing your child. 00:10:20.649 --> 00:10:26.079 Um, you know your child best and that teacher also probably knows your child really well too. 00:10:26.229 --> 00:10:27.039 And you should have 00:10:27.069 --> 00:10:27.189 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:33.369 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: about what you're seeing, but don't feel like you to be the therapist in this situation. 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:36.729 You are a supportive adult and you will get them the support that they need. 00:10:38.259 --> 00:10:38.529 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Yeah. 00:10:38.529 --> 00:10:45.009 Well, I'm glad you brought up that piece because this is one of the things that I just, uh, rail on all the time. 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:51.669 And I've done, uh, training, uh, trauma-informed trainings, and I used to have, uh. 00:10:51.999 --> 00:10:53.199 A course all about that. 00:10:53.199 --> 00:11:11.739 And I've rebranded all of that stuff to call it resilient schools because every trauma thing that I've been to, every training I've gone to, and every time I've led one, people walk out saying, so basically I need to be a therapist and, and I part of my, uh. 00:11:12.144 --> 00:11:15.564 Part of my presentation is teachers are not therapists. 00:11:15.564 --> 00:11:26.574 They should not feel like they need to be one, nor should they act like one, nor should they implement the strategies that a therapist, uh, is doing like counseling, therapy strategies. 00:11:26.784 --> 00:11:30.444 They can implement other strategies, but they do not need to do that. 00:11:30.444 --> 00:11:34.494 And, and it is, uh, one of those things that is so important to understand. 00:11:34.764 --> 00:11:49.839 You can't expect a teacher to become a. A therapist, uh, as well as a teacher that's putting way too much on their plates and asking way too much of them and giving them, uh, an expectation that is impossible for them to fill. 00:11:50.689 --> 00:11:59.509 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Absolutely, and I think, you know, educators relieving themselves of that pressure to be a therapist or a doctor is so important. 00:11:59.509 --> 00:12:09.079 And actually makes it easier to have, be that supportive adult that is really the role that you, you know, make it makes more sense to be playing. 00:12:09.379 --> 00:12:13.789 Um, 'cause you don't feel awkward or pressured, you're just doing your job. 00:12:13.789 --> 00:12:19.579 And also, you know, which is, you know, in part supporting the, the children in your classroom. 00:12:20.479 --> 00:12:23.629 Um, and I to your point about, oh, sorry to interrupt, 00:12:23.754 --> 00:12:24.234 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: that's okay. 00:12:24.469 --> 00:12:24.889 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: yeah. 00:12:26.859 --> 00:12:34.959 Trauma Informed care and all of those trainings, we actually at NAMI, have been calling it, um, trauma Awareness. 00:12:35.019 --> 00:12:37.509 So we have a, an online course. 00:12:37.509 --> 00:12:40.269 It's free for any youth serving professional. 00:12:40.269 --> 00:12:52.929 So that could be an educator, it could be a camp counselor, all about what is trauma and how does it affect kids and how you can, um, you know, support them in a way that makes sense. 00:12:53.229 --> 00:12:56.139 I will say, you know, a significant number. 00:12:57.414 --> 00:13:08.904 to 60% of kids have experienced multiple traumatic events, but I would say eight up to 80% have experienced at least one traumatic event. 00:13:09.924 --> 00:13:20.034 But the important thing to note, note is that the majority of children and adolescents show resilience in the aftermath of a traumatic experience. 00:13:20.364 --> 00:13:25.044 I think kids are a lot stronger, stronger than we give them credit for. 00:13:25.464 --> 00:13:40.104 Um, so that's where, you know, understanding that while there is a lot of traumatic events that are happening in, in kids' lives right now, uh, you know, one traumatic event is not necessarily going to change the course of their lives. 00:13:40.404 --> 00:13:42.204 Um, they're going to be resilient. 00:13:42.234 --> 00:13:45.894 It's creating an environment so that they can be resilient. 00:13:46.269 --> 00:13:49.119 Um, is, is such a big part of it. 00:13:49.389 --> 00:13:50.949 Uh, multiple traumatic events. 00:13:51.009 --> 00:13:59.919 ACEs, adverse childhood experiences definitely, um, can change how you know your future is charted. 00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:12.669 You know, more negative experiences you experience like abuse or neglect or losing a family member, the more likely you are gonna face, you know, some mental health challenges and other challenges in your life. 00:14:12.669 --> 00:14:13.594 And so we do need to be. 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:22.509 of these things, but not necessarily, uh, guess people are throwing around the, the word trauma so much. 00:14:22.509 --> 00:14:23.709 It's lost its meaning. 00:14:24.564 --> 00:14:24.984 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Yeah. 00:14:25.014 --> 00:14:37.974 Which, which is exactly what happens when, when one of these Bud Buzzwords hits and, and then everything is traumatic and everything is, is, uh, is so difficult that it's going to affect me. 00:14:38.304 --> 00:14:42.894 And I've had several instances with students with, um. 00:14:43.849 --> 00:15:06.324 Where kids figured out that that was the case and would start to use that as a way to get out of doing work, get out of, uh, something difficult or, or challenging, which then just makes it harder when somebody really is experiencing some mental health issues and, and that, you know, isn't, isn't good either, but that's, that's the problem when we have these well-meaning. 00:15:06.764 --> 00:15:14.684 Approaches where we're like, yeah, we wanna take care of everybody, but sometimes that's not exactly what we, what we really need. 00:15:14.744 --> 00:15:30.404 Sometimes we need to say, okay, I get that this is, that this is hard and this has happened, but here, like this is a safe place to block that out and, and not, uh, let it impact what you're doing in here as best you can. 00:15:30.464 --> 00:15:36.224 And you know, the reason why I am, I'm using language like that is because we've said that. 00:15:36.789 --> 00:15:46.449 It is, it is traumatic if I have been abused or neglected, and it is traumatic if somebody did not give me half of their sandwich at lunch today. 00:15:46.809 --> 00:15:57.729 And, and that's part of our problem is that we've made this buzzword be something that is anything and, and that's not helpful to, to the bigger conversation. 00:15:57.729 --> 00:16:04.509 So what would be your advice in that situation of, you know, we talk about it too much and now it's like everything is traumatic. 00:16:04.779 --> 00:16:05.704 What, what are we to do? 00:16:06.529 --> 00:16:07.759 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Yeah, it is tough. 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.649 I mean, it's like a kid, you know, pretending to have a stomach ache, right? 00:16:12.649 --> 00:16:18.379 It's, but what you know is you, you may have a little bit more education about physical. 00:16:19.104 --> 00:16:21.324 Health conditions than you do about mental health 00:16:21.649 --> 00:16:22.069 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:16:22.284 --> 00:16:35.154 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: So the more you know about mental health conditions and those signs that we were talking about earlier, those changes in kids, those big changes that you're, you're seeing, um. 00:16:35.469 --> 00:16:41.379 The more you're able to spot what is, what is and is not a real concern, 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:42.279 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Yeah. 00:16:42.339 --> 00:16:48.759 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: and be able to inter intervene early and help make sure that kid is supported. 00:16:48.924 --> 00:16:49.344 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:16:49.749 --> 00:16:50.769 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: so it's really a lot. 00:16:50.769 --> 00:16:52.779 I know, you know, educators have a lot. 00:16:53.499 --> 00:16:54.609 their plates already. 00:16:55.059 --> 00:17:12.279 But I think everybody, every adult, every sport of adult can learn a lot more about mental health and be able to, you know, the more people in your community that understand what to look for, the more likely we're gonna get in early intervention, um, and then better outcomes. 00:17:12.819 --> 00:17:13.239 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:17:16.044 --> 00:17:18.482 So, talk about those better outcomes. 00:17:18.602 --> 00:17:22.442 What does, what does that mean to you in your role? 00:17:22.742 --> 00:17:24.902 Uh, for students specifically? 00:17:25.127 --> 00:17:25.517 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Yeah. 00:17:25.517 --> 00:17:36.977 It's so interesting, um, talking a little bit with Riff, for example, reading is fundamental is that some of the outcomes they talk about, like graduating from high school, are the same outcomes we talk 00:17:37.317 --> 00:17:37.737 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:17:37.937 --> 00:17:38.267 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: we're. 00:17:38.612 --> 00:17:45.422 Talking about mental health intervention, graduating from high school, staying out of the criminal justice system. 00:17:45.452 --> 00:17:52.562 Really high numbers of people with mental illness in the criminal justice system and revisit and, going back into the system 00:17:52.742 --> 00:17:53.552 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Recidivism. 00:17:53.822 --> 00:17:53.972 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: you. 00:17:53.972 --> 00:17:54.242 I was 00:17:54.452 --> 00:17:54.842 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: You're welcome. 00:17:54.902 --> 00:17:56.792 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: but my, but I was like, oh, you know what? 00:17:56.792 --> 00:17:58.592 My mouth is not gonna be able to say it today. 00:17:58.652 --> 00:17:59.492 It's just not gonna be able to 00:17:59.612 --> 00:17:59.972 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Yeah. 00:18:00.122 --> 00:18:01.262 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Um, yes. 00:18:03.212 --> 00:18:07.322 so we wanna make sure people are getting help early. 00:18:08.087 --> 00:18:14.297 Um, and getting the right po he help and the best possible care I can talk about myself. 00:18:14.297 --> 00:18:24.047 You know, I experienced a mental health condition early, um, probably middle school, high school when it really started to appear, which is that 14-year-old, you know, average. 00:18:24.317 --> 00:18:26.867 But I did not get help until college. 00:18:26.947 --> 00:18:27.367 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:18:27.467 --> 00:18:30.437 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: long time to be really struggling. 00:18:30.737 --> 00:18:33.047 Um, and it did affect. 00:18:33.407 --> 00:18:42.647 How I, you know, interacted with my friends and how I, you know, studied for school and how I interacted with substances and things like that. 00:18:42.887 --> 00:18:49.997 You know, it, it, all of those things potentially could have been different had I had early intervention. 00:18:50.267 --> 00:18:58.907 And also I just think period, the pain that someone experiences when they have an untreated mental health condition is worth early intervention. 00:18:58.912 --> 00:18:59.332 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:18:59.987 --> 00:19:00.377 Yeah. 00:19:00.737 --> 00:19:06.137 Well, and I, I, I like how you mentioned that the outcomes are these long-term. 00:19:06.497 --> 00:19:08.477 Far away outcomes. 00:19:08.807 --> 00:19:23.717 Uh, because it could take, you know, if, if you manage it and, and are able to stay out of prison, for example, until you turn 40 and then you finally snap, like, that means the outcome was not successful. 00:19:23.867 --> 00:19:24.287 Right. 00:19:24.497 --> 00:19:29.657 And, and the goals, you know, could have been met in other ways. 00:19:29.657 --> 00:19:33.797 Like, yeah, you graduated high school, you started family, you got a job, all that kind of stuff. 00:19:33.857 --> 00:19:34.727 But then eventually. 00:19:35.267 --> 00:19:35.987 You broke. 00:19:36.017 --> 00:19:40.337 And that is, uh, that is a, a real issue. 00:19:40.727 --> 00:19:52.247 That doesn't mean that like the things we did weren't worthwhile or weren't beneficial, but the, the point that I'm trying to get to is that these things are so much bigger than the one year at a time. 00:19:52.757 --> 00:19:54.857 School mindset, right? 00:19:54.992 --> 00:20:01.667 You, you go to school, you're in fifth grade, you have that teacher, you're in ninth grade, you have those teachers, and then you move on. 00:20:01.667 --> 00:20:15.347 And the thing is, is that we really need to take a more long-term, bigger picture approach to, uh, education as a whole and uh, to mental, mental health as well, and to literacy as well. 00:20:15.377 --> 00:20:21.587 I think that we need to stop thinking in these, uh, in these high stress. 00:20:21.917 --> 00:20:37.817 A legislatively convenient type ways of looking at education, that it needs to be deeper and, you know, it needs to go on for more than just the 13 years we're in school, but we need to continually be learning even after we graduate. 00:20:38.087 --> 00:20:40.427 Um, is that too, uh, too out there for you? 00:20:40.722 --> 00:20:41.292 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: it's not. 00:20:41.292 --> 00:20:43.692 I think, you know, you're talking about preventing crises. 00:20:44.132 --> 00:20:44.192 You 00:20:44.432 --> 00:20:44.852 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:20:45.182 --> 00:20:53.492 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: we don't wanna get to that point of, of crisis and that point of crisis might not ex happen for a long time. 00:20:53.492 --> 00:21:05.162 Like you're saying, it could happen once you're in the workforce, you've been doing, you've been managing a mental health condition for that long, but something, you know, pressure burnout, something makes it. 00:21:06.347 --> 00:21:11.087 Dip into that crisis point, and that is just not where we wanna put anybody. 00:21:11.567 --> 00:21:15.107 Um, so your point about education is really Im important. 00:21:15.107 --> 00:21:25.307 We, we would talk a lot about literacy, but mental health literacy in particular, mental health mental health education is health education. 00:21:25.547 --> 00:21:29.807 And I think people separate them a lot and thinking about, you know. 00:21:30.167 --> 00:21:32.687 I'm, I'm a health teacher, I'm teaching physical health. 00:21:32.717 --> 00:21:37.697 Well, there's a lot to learn about mental health too, that has similar outcomes, 00:21:37.827 --> 00:21:38.247 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:21:38.447 --> 00:21:46.217 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: and things that you need to be prepared for and prevention that can happen by teaching mental health literacy, what a mental health condition is and is not. 00:21:46.277 --> 00:21:48.767 How to help, uh, get help when you need it. 00:21:48.767 --> 00:21:51.197 How to talk to your friends about mental health, et cetera. 00:21:52.142 --> 00:21:53.432 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Yeah, I like that. 00:21:53.492 --> 00:22:02.552 Um, so the last thing that, uh, that I wanted to chat about today was this, um, idea that you just briefly touched on in your conversation with Erin last time. 00:22:02.552 --> 00:22:06.182 And I'm gonna talk about this with her also, but I wanna talk about that idea of. 00:22:06.917 --> 00:22:14.057 Of building connections in a physical space by reading next to someone and why that's so important. 00:22:14.057 --> 00:22:30.197 And I, when you two talked last week, you both hit on it, but I feel like there's so much more to sitting on your parents' lap, being read a story, sitting next to other kids while someone else is reading a story, that kind of stuff. 00:22:30.482 --> 00:22:31.922 Can be incredibly powerful. 00:22:31.922 --> 00:22:38.462 What, what do you wanna say about that and building connections in general, uh, with people and why that's so valuable? 00:22:39.007 --> 00:22:49.057 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Yeah, I think a lot of parents are focused on being the perfect parent and making sure they read three books a day or you know, they're getting through homework at this hour. 00:22:49.057 --> 00:22:57.337 And you know, it's great to have goals, but it's, let's focus on connection, not perfection. 00:22:57.397 --> 00:22:57.817 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:22:58.382 --> 00:23:03.512 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: as we said in the, in our last chat, connection is protection, right? 00:23:03.512 --> 00:23:06.272 So what matters most is that a kid is. 00:23:07.277 --> 00:23:13.397 Feeling seen, heard is feeling safe in, in their learning environment. 00:23:13.467 --> 00:23:13.887 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Mm-hmm. 00:23:13.967 --> 00:23:19.007 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: so that's in part why sitting with a child has such a powerful effect. 00:23:19.427 --> 00:23:33.407 Um, and we talked a little bit about how having a conversation about mental health or any really challenging topic with a young, uh, with a young person, a, a child or a teen, can be easier when it's not a high pressure. 00:23:33.407 --> 00:23:36.702 Face-to-face, this is the talk that we're having. 00:23:36.702 --> 00:23:38.502 It's an ongoing conversation. 00:23:38.502 --> 00:23:47.112 Maybe you're driving in the front seat and somebody's, you know, in the back, one of the, your kids is in the backseat, and you ask some open-ended questions. 00:23:47.172 --> 00:23:53.652 I, I always recommend, um, asking questions that don't have a yes or no answer, 00:23:53.682 --> 00:23:53.982 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Yeah. 00:23:53.982 --> 00:23:57.012 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: that shuts down the conversation pretty quickly. 00:23:57.312 --> 00:24:02.202 Um, but saying, you know, what did you like about X, Y, or Z today? 00:24:02.567 --> 00:24:03.347 How did you know? 00:24:03.347 --> 00:24:08.477 How did you feel the game went and uh, what kind of pressure did you feel during it? 00:24:08.987 --> 00:24:15.197 Those kinds of things, um, can really up a conversation and get that consistency. 00:24:15.197 --> 00:24:21.827 And like you're saying, that physical space matters and it doesn't have to be just sitting too, it could be. 00:24:22.802 --> 00:24:26.012 a puzzle together, something where you're using your hands. 00:24:26.012 --> 00:24:28.142 You're, you're even outside. 00:24:28.142 --> 00:24:33.152 Maybe you're, you're helping your child learn to garden and you're putting seeds in the dirt. 00:24:33.212 --> 00:24:40.277 That, that's an opportunity, that's a great time to start a conversation because it's taking the pressure off of it. 00:24:40.277 --> 00:24:42.032 It's not making it such a big deal. 00:24:42.032 --> 00:24:45.512 It's making it just part of how you interact with your child. 00:24:46.327 --> 00:24:46.747 jethro_1_06-25-2025_124132: Yeah. 00:24:46.777 --> 00:25:00.572 Well, and, and to the school context, one of the things that teachers can do is go play with your kids at recess and, and do those things, uh, those physical things with them that open. 00:25:01.052 --> 00:25:09.302 To help them open up in ways that, that you would be surprised about, uh, compared to when they're sitting in your classroom and you are the master of the domain. 00:25:09.512 --> 00:25:16.562 You know, go, go try doing the monkey bars with them and, and then talk about how hard it is for you to do it at. 00:25:16.847 --> 00:25:21.827 However old you are, it's a lot harder than it is for them to do it at whatever grade they're at. 00:25:21.857 --> 00:25:26.267 And those are, those are important things that help you build that connection. 00:25:26.267 --> 00:25:33.317 I especially love doing the physical things together and reading, looking at a book together can be one of those, but there's, there's a lot more. 00:25:33.707 --> 00:25:36.257 Um, Barb, this was a great chatting with you today. 00:25:36.257 --> 00:25:37.787 Thank you so much for your time. 00:25:37.787 --> 00:25:43.667 And just a reminder, if you, uh, shop at Macy's, go do their roundup between now and. 00:25:43.667 --> 00:25:55.877 And, uh, September 14th and your rounding up will support r and NAMI's efforts to provide mental health and literacy resources to students. 00:25:55.937 --> 00:25:59.237 Thank you so much again, Barb, for being part of the podcast today. 00:25:59.652 --> 00:26:01.122 barb-solish---she-her-_1_06-25-2025_154151: Thank you so much for having me. 00:26:01.122 --> 00:26:02.292 I really appreciate it.