WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.850 --> 00:00:04.116 Welcome to ChannelWaves, the podcast where channel 2 00:00:04.116 --> 00:00:07.322 leaders share success strategies, best practices, and emerging 3 00:00:07.322 --> 00:00:09.748 trends brought to you by StructuredWeb. 4 00:00:09.748 --> 00:00:12.186 Here's your host, Steven Kellam. 5 00:00:12.186 --> 00:00:15.082 Hey, welcome everyone, to ChannelWaves podcast 6 00:00:15.082 --> 00:00:16.996 StructuredWeb's view into everything channel. 7 00:00:16.996 --> 00:00:19.402 I'm your host Steven Kellam, and very excited 8 00:00:19.402 --> 00:00:21.556 to have Jamie Mendez joining us today. 9 00:00:21.556 --> 00:00:23.562 Welcome, Jamie. Hi, Steven. 10 00:00:23.562 --> 00:00:26.188 Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome. 11 00:00:26.188 --> 00:00:28.012 So Jamie is the Vice President of 12 00:00:28.012 --> 00:00:32.066 Ecosystem Transformation and Programs at Pegasystems. 13 00:00:32.066 --> 00:00:33.644 So maybe you could just take a moment, 14 00:00:33.644 --> 00:00:36.162 tell everyone a little bit, just real briefly 15 00:00:36.162 --> 00:00:38.844 about your background, a little bit of history, 16 00:00:38.844 --> 00:00:42.000 and maybe a little bit about Pegasystems too. Sure. 17 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:46.576 So I've been in the partner environment for longer 18 00:00:46.576 --> 00:00:49.100 than I care to admit, many, many years. 19 00:00:49.630 --> 00:00:52.298 And through that, worked with all kinds 20 00:00:52.298 --> 00:00:55.780 of partner types from the traditional channel 21 00:00:55.780 --> 00:00:59.956 partner, the old VAR reseller model through 22 00:00:59.956 --> 00:01:03.706 as that community evolved into solution providers 23 00:01:03.706 --> 00:01:07.662 ISPs, regional system integrators, global system integrators. 24 00:01:07.662 --> 00:01:10.408 And really over the last probably ten or 25 00:01:10.408 --> 00:01:13.416 15 years, I've worked in the ecosystem and 26 00:01:13.416 --> 00:01:17.138 building ecosystems of ecosystems, finding core partners. 27 00:01:17.138 --> 00:01:20.834 An ISB looking at their ecosystem of partners, marrying 28 00:01:20.834 --> 00:01:23.986 that ecosystem of partners with other partners who brought 29 00:01:23.986 --> 00:01:27.110 complementary value to the table for the client. 30 00:01:27.710 --> 00:01:31.280 So I've been in and around partner operations, channel 31 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:36.656 management, selling, marketing for many, many years and have 32 00:01:36.656 --> 00:01:39.024 learned a lot and seen a lot of change. 33 00:01:39.024 --> 00:01:42.852 And what I did become and built some 34 00:01:42.852 --> 00:01:46.116 skill around is designing change and managing change. 35 00:01:46.116 --> 00:01:46.900 Change is hard. 36 00:01:46.900 --> 00:01:49.268 Change means I'm asking people to 37 00:01:49.268 --> 00:01:51.108 give up things for new things. 38 00:01:51.108 --> 00:01:54.456 And while people love new things, giving up something 39 00:01:54.456 --> 00:01:57.976 typically creates an emotional response at some level. 40 00:01:57.976 --> 00:02:01.128 People are either super excited or super protective and you 41 00:02:01.128 --> 00:02:03.096 have to kind of manage your way through that. 42 00:02:03.096 --> 00:02:06.588 So operationally, I've been focused on 43 00:02:06.588 --> 00:02:07.852 that for a few years. 44 00:02:07.852 --> 00:02:10.651 And I joined Pegasystems two years ago as 45 00:02:10.651 --> 00:02:15.250 Pega was really trying to evolve its partner ecosystem 46 00:02:15.250 --> 00:02:20.374 to really have the partners participate in a greater 47 00:02:20.374 --> 00:02:23.648 way around the co-selling, selling motion in the 48 00:02:23.648 --> 00:02:27.526 journey with our clients and start that motion earlier. 49 00:02:27.526 --> 00:02:29.414 So that when we got to delivery 50 00:02:29.414 --> 00:02:33.216 and our partners provide most delivery support. 51 00:02:33.216 --> 00:02:36.788 Around Pegasystem solutions, we are a platform 52 00:02:36.788 --> 00:02:39.124 that can be designed to address many of 53 00:02:39.124 --> 00:02:42.560 the most complex issues that our clients face. 54 00:02:43.330 --> 00:02:45.944 When you get partners involved early and they understand 55 00:02:45.944 --> 00:02:48.952 the client pain points, the opportunities, they have, more 56 00:02:48.952 --> 00:02:51.518 time to really digest that, build the right approach 57 00:02:51.518 --> 00:02:54.782 to the project, the right implementation strategy. 58 00:02:54.782 --> 00:02:58.076 So that's the kind of operational model 59 00:02:58.076 --> 00:03:00.588 we're putting in place and working with 60 00:03:00.588 --> 00:03:03.370 our partners to evolve over time. 61 00:03:03.370 --> 00:03:07.298 We have a small ecosystem, but that ecosystem drives 62 00:03:07.298 --> 00:03:09.800 our business and very important to our success. 63 00:03:10.330 --> 00:03:12.572 So there's two things I want to talk 64 00:03:12.572 --> 00:03:15.558 about, by the way, listeners or viewers. 65 00:03:15.558 --> 00:03:18.032 We're going to talk about how do you do more with less? 66 00:03:18.032 --> 00:03:19.344 And I know everybody's talking about how 67 00:03:19.344 --> 00:03:20.048 do you do more or less. 68 00:03:20.048 --> 00:03:20.784 But we're going to look at from a 69 00:03:20.784 --> 00:03:23.142 strategic perspective because I think it involves. 70 00:03:23.142 --> 00:03:24.404 Two things you were talking about. 71 00:03:24.404 --> 00:03:25.962 One, it involves the ecosystem. 72 00:03:25.962 --> 00:03:28.292 And by the way, you got to say ecosystem before I did. 73 00:03:28.292 --> 00:03:31.658 So we had to bring it in somewhere. 74 00:03:31.658 --> 00:03:33.492 I win, you win. 75 00:03:33.492 --> 00:03:36.872 And when we go talk to ecosystem beyond partners, your 76 00:03:36.872 --> 00:03:39.832 ecosystem really from my perspective when you're running a channel, 77 00:03:39.832 --> 00:03:43.320 is the partners that you sell with the partners you 78 00:03:43.320 --> 00:03:49.788 sell to, the resources, human resources that you have and 79 00:03:49.788 --> 00:03:51.820 even the technology that's in there, right. 80 00:03:51.820 --> 00:03:55.330 It all forms a pretty broad ecosystem. 81 00:03:55.330 --> 00:03:57.708 The interesting thing is they're all changing and 82 00:03:57.708 --> 00:04:00.188 they were all step back for a second. 83 00:04:00.188 --> 00:04:03.366 They were all changing anyways during the pandemic. 84 00:04:03.366 --> 00:04:06.070 Then they were all changing post the pandemic. 85 00:04:06.070 --> 00:04:08.880 And then you took those changes and said 86 00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:10.784 now we need to do more with less. 87 00:04:10.784 --> 00:04:13.508 Which is not a change I'm not sure everybody was 88 00:04:13.508 --> 00:04:17.570 really looking forward to, but it is where we are. 89 00:04:17.570 --> 00:04:20.531 So I think we're going to talk about those changes. 90 00:04:20.531 --> 00:04:22.388 The place I'd like to start with 91 00:04:22.388 --> 00:04:25.396 is what's the partner's perspective on this? 92 00:04:25.396 --> 00:04:27.460 Because so many of the conversations that I've had with 93 00:04:27.460 --> 00:04:29.560 people have been, okay, here's how I'm going to change 94 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:31.688 my for vendors, here's how I'm going to change my 95 00:04:31.688 --> 00:04:34.478 programs, here's going to lay out my resources. 96 00:04:34.478 --> 00:04:36.248 And the first thing comes to mind to 97 00:04:36.248 --> 00:04:38.338 me is how is that going to affect 98 00:04:38.338 --> 00:04:41.830 our partner relationships, their go to market strategy 99 00:04:42.490 --> 00:04:45.530 and how that all really affects the partner. 100 00:04:45.530 --> 00:04:49.276 Yeah, well, I think it depends on which 101 00:04:49.276 --> 00:04:51.894 partners we're talking about and how you react. 102 00:04:51.894 --> 00:04:53.392 I mean, at the end of the day, 103 00:04:53.392 --> 00:04:55.952 some of our biggest partners are going through 104 00:04:55.952 --> 00:04:58.060 some of the same challenges we're going through. 105 00:04:58.830 --> 00:05:01.894 Our clients are all being very cautious. 106 00:05:01.894 --> 00:05:04.202 People are still kind of uncertain about the economy. 107 00:05:04.202 --> 00:05:05.748 Some are saying it's a disaster, some 108 00:05:05.748 --> 00:05:07.364 are saying it's not so bad. 109 00:05:07.364 --> 00:05:10.442 But most all clients are moving very cautiously. 110 00:05:10.442 --> 00:05:13.918 So buying decisions are made, are being prolonged. 111 00:05:13.918 --> 00:05:15.780 That cycle is being prolonged a bit. 112 00:05:16.310 --> 00:05:19.080 So everybody's facing the same situation. 113 00:05:19.080 --> 00:05:22.632 And what I find is the partners want to 114 00:05:22.632 --> 00:05:26.088 have conversations about those challenges and ensure alignment in 115 00:05:26.088 --> 00:05:28.988 the decisions we're making because we're all having to 116 00:05:28.988 --> 00:05:32.620 make trade off decisions on how to prioritize and 117 00:05:32.620 --> 00:05:36.882 what to prioritize on and what the downstream implications 118 00:05:36.882 --> 00:05:37.868 are going to be. 119 00:05:37.868 --> 00:05:39.910 And they want to have that conversation. 120 00:05:39.910 --> 00:05:44.198 Their expectation and their ask is don't make a decision 121 00:05:44.198 --> 00:05:48.518 until we can kind of make sure that those decisions, 122 00:05:48.518 --> 00:05:51.172 what those, the impact of those decisions will be on 123 00:05:51.172 --> 00:05:52.916 the decisions we now have to make. 124 00:05:52.916 --> 00:05:55.268 So we've had partners calling us and 125 00:05:55.268 --> 00:05:56.308 saying, look, we're going to have to 126 00:05:56.308 --> 00:06:00.990 make some reassignments reprioritizations cuts. 127 00:06:01.730 --> 00:06:04.790 This is where we're thinking about doing it. 128 00:06:04.790 --> 00:06:08.980 What will that look like on your side if we do this? 129 00:06:09.750 --> 00:06:11.992 What will the longer term implication be? 130 00:06:11.992 --> 00:06:13.886 Will there be any longer term implications. 131 00:06:13.886 --> 00:06:16.786 So alignment, transparency and alignment 132 00:06:16.786 --> 00:06:18.650 is critical in these times. 133 00:06:18.650 --> 00:06:21.772 One for making sure you're not 134 00:06:21.772 --> 00:06:23.138 fighting each other right and creating 135 00:06:23.138 --> 00:06:25.468 collisions in market, but building trust. 136 00:06:25.468 --> 00:06:31.744 It's like marriages aren't made from the happy times. 137 00:06:31.744 --> 00:06:34.358 Marriages are made from the difficult times when you're 138 00:06:34.358 --> 00:06:38.032 challenged and you work together to get through those 139 00:06:38.032 --> 00:06:39.904 difficult times and come out the other end. 140 00:06:39.904 --> 00:06:41.302 And that's true of our partnerships. 141 00:06:41.302 --> 00:06:43.508 I hate to use the marriage analogy, but 142 00:06:43.508 --> 00:06:45.268 we are committed to each other right, in 143 00:06:45.268 --> 00:06:47.722 these partnerships, and we have to be willing 144 00:06:47.722 --> 00:06:51.274 to talk about the things that aren't comfortable. 145 00:06:51.274 --> 00:06:53.040 And that's what we're seeing. 146 00:06:53.810 --> 00:06:56.090 And hopefully our partners are seeing that we're 147 00:06:56.090 --> 00:06:59.704 willing and are actively having these conversations about 148 00:06:59.704 --> 00:07:01.608 how can we do this together and get 149 00:07:01.608 --> 00:07:03.670 through these tough times together. 150 00:07:03.670 --> 00:07:05.592 I think that's a great way to look at it. 151 00:07:05.592 --> 00:07:06.312 A couple of things. 152 00:07:06.312 --> 00:07:09.576 One is a commitment is something I think really important, 153 00:07:09.576 --> 00:07:11.218 and I think that's the best thing about a marriage. 154 00:07:11.218 --> 00:07:11.388 Right. 155 00:07:11.388 --> 00:07:13.954 You choose to commit I don't 156 00:07:13.954 --> 00:07:16.630 know, partners in a relationship, marriage. 157 00:07:18.510 --> 00:07:19.168 Yeah, I know. 158 00:07:19.168 --> 00:07:21.382 That's why I apologize a little bit for the analogy. 159 00:07:21.382 --> 00:07:24.810 But it's, you know, like, I I relate. 160 00:07:25.790 --> 00:07:27.936 It's something I I understand, 161 00:07:27.936 --> 00:07:29.872 but it's any relationship. 162 00:07:29.872 --> 00:07:30.934 It doesn't have to be marriage. 163 00:07:30.934 --> 00:07:33.820 It could be your best your BFF. Right. 164 00:07:35.790 --> 00:07:37.508 Look, I think transparent, I agree with you. 165 00:07:37.508 --> 00:07:40.868 I think transparency in any relationship and does that mean 166 00:07:40.868 --> 00:07:42.554 you have to have some of the hard conversations? 167 00:07:42.554 --> 00:07:45.384 So the questions are they may not have 168 00:07:45.384 --> 00:07:48.446 enough resources and you have less resources. 169 00:07:48.446 --> 00:07:50.488 Where's the middle ground on that? 170 00:07:50.488 --> 00:07:53.128 And that's not the easiest conversation to 171 00:07:53.128 --> 00:07:55.438 have, right, because you're mutually dependent. 172 00:07:55.438 --> 00:07:58.802 I guess it would depend on the type of partner 173 00:07:58.802 --> 00:08:03.468 and how critical each one is to each other. Yeah. 174 00:08:03.468 --> 00:08:05.612 At the end of the day, what are we all trying to do? 175 00:08:05.612 --> 00:08:07.778 We're all trying to serve a client. 176 00:08:07.778 --> 00:08:10.892 So if we start with the client and we 177 00:08:10.892 --> 00:08:13.142 start backing away from the client in the conversation 178 00:08:13.142 --> 00:08:15.206 of what do we need to serve that client, 179 00:08:15.206 --> 00:08:17.558 how do we together go to that client? 180 00:08:17.558 --> 00:08:20.272 Which resources are needed, which activities are 181 00:08:20.272 --> 00:08:23.476 needed to make all of that happen? 182 00:08:23.476 --> 00:08:26.868 And it makes the conversation easier because when 183 00:08:26.868 --> 00:08:29.428 it starts to get difficult, you come back 184 00:08:29.428 --> 00:08:31.290 to, how are we serving the client? 185 00:08:31.290 --> 00:08:33.511 And if you can keep reminding yourself of 186 00:08:33.511 --> 00:08:37.182 that, you can get through the conversation easier. 187 00:08:37.182 --> 00:08:40.648 Because we have been in conversations where somebody feels very 188 00:08:40.648 --> 00:08:44.398 strongly about a program that we agreed to in December, 189 00:08:44.398 --> 00:08:48.536 and now do we keep doing it? Well, 190 00:08:48.536 --> 00:08:50.908 Is that the best way to serve that client at this 191 00:08:50.908 --> 00:08:53.196 point in time, based on what is the client going through? 192 00:08:53.196 --> 00:08:54.482 Is the client downsizing? 193 00:08:54.482 --> 00:08:55.676 Is the client changing their 194 00:08:55.676 --> 00:08:58.146 strategy based on economic conditions? 195 00:08:58.146 --> 00:09:02.208 So that seems to be the right area to start with. 196 00:09:02.208 --> 00:09:05.280 And keep asking yourself, what are they trying to do? 197 00:09:05.280 --> 00:09:07.020 How can we best serve them? 198 00:09:08.110 --> 00:09:10.672 And it seems obvious, but it's still hard to get 199 00:09:10.672 --> 00:09:13.856 yourself to come back to those, especially when you're really 200 00:09:13.856 --> 00:09:16.868 invested in something that you already agreed to and now 201 00:09:16.868 --> 00:09:18.308 you're finding you have to revisit it. 202 00:09:18.308 --> 00:09:19.156 That's hard to do. 203 00:09:19.156 --> 00:09:21.332 Those are not easy conversations to have. 204 00:09:21.332 --> 00:09:23.492 So you've got to find that grounding point. 205 00:09:23.492 --> 00:09:25.508 I think it's interesting you said it sounds obvious. 206 00:09:25.508 --> 00:09:26.648 I'm not so sure it is 207 00:09:26.648 --> 00:09:29.544 because you have pundits out there. 208 00:09:29.544 --> 00:09:31.176 Sorry, pundits probably the wrong word. 209 00:09:31.176 --> 00:09:32.328 You have consultants out there. 210 00:09:32.328 --> 00:09:34.216 You have groups like Forrester who are doing 211 00:09:34.216 --> 00:09:36.008 very well, talking about how we need to 212 00:09:36.008 --> 00:09:38.760 all look at the client perspective first. 213 00:09:38.760 --> 00:09:40.268 How are they going to buy, what do they 214 00:09:40.268 --> 00:09:41.586 want to do, what do they want to accomplish? 215 00:09:41.586 --> 00:09:43.692 And they're constantly reminding us as we put our 216 00:09:43.692 --> 00:09:47.324 programs together, whether it's an MDF program or an 217 00:09:47.324 --> 00:09:50.284 incentive program or whatever that program is with the 218 00:09:50.284 --> 00:09:52.830 partner, to think about the end user. 219 00:09:52.830 --> 00:09:57.216 And I do think that is the way to do it. 220 00:09:57.216 --> 00:09:58.928 The other thing I think about you made me 221 00:09:58.928 --> 00:10:03.062 think about is when you manage someone, if you're 222 00:10:03.062 --> 00:10:04.784 going through a review with someone and you're trying 223 00:10:04.784 --> 00:10:06.682 to work with someone and have a difficult conversation, 224 00:10:06.682 --> 00:10:09.034 it's much easier if you have a different focal 225 00:10:09.034 --> 00:10:11.908 point than them and you're actually talking about how 226 00:10:11.908 --> 00:10:13.940 you get somewhere else together. 227 00:10:14.710 --> 00:10:17.262 That's like an age old wise 228 00:10:17.262 --> 00:10:20.020 way to manage someone anyways, right? Yeah. 229 00:10:21.350 --> 00:10:25.544 It's funny because I was just thinking about when you 230 00:10:25.544 --> 00:10:29.714 were saying that we were on a client call, we're 231 00:10:29.714 --> 00:10:34.330 doing a delivery review and the team was talking about 232 00:10:34.330 --> 00:10:37.666 a challenge that the client was having with scope creep 233 00:10:37.666 --> 00:10:41.728 and the business team, and the client, was wanting to 234 00:10:41.728 --> 00:10:45.862 add functionality, feature sets, scope. 235 00:10:45.862 --> 00:10:48.992 And the It team at the client was saying, 236 00:10:48.992 --> 00:10:50.676 this was the scope we signed up for. 237 00:10:50.676 --> 00:10:54.080 This is the delivery date we're going to. 238 00:10:54.610 --> 00:11:00.290 And they were both emotionally invested and the partner and 239 00:11:00.290 --> 00:11:05.192 Pega were sitting on the outside listening to this and 240 00:11:05.192 --> 00:11:10.808 trying to help them see that they were each taking 241 00:11:10.808 --> 00:11:13.800 a different perspective on what the scope was. 242 00:11:13.800 --> 00:11:17.596 And they had to come back to what is more 243 00:11:17.596 --> 00:11:23.388 important solving a specific initial prioritization or moving to a 244 00:11:23.388 --> 00:11:27.420 different one or being okay with missing the date. 245 00:11:27.420 --> 00:11:29.554 Like you can make all kinds of decisions 246 00:11:29.554 --> 00:11:31.552 in that none of them are wrong. 247 00:11:31.552 --> 00:11:34.934 It's getting the team to agree on the shift. 248 00:11:34.934 --> 00:11:37.136 And again, that may meant somebody 249 00:11:37.136 --> 00:11:38.620 had to give something up. 250 00:11:40.130 --> 00:11:44.468 I had a business mentor remind me to go 251 00:11:44.468 --> 00:11:47.588 back and reread what is it? Getting to Yes? 252 00:11:47.588 --> 00:11:52.282 It's like such an old book, but the principles 253 00:11:52.282 --> 00:11:56.904 of going back to what do we have in common 254 00:11:56.904 --> 00:12:02.462 at stake has to be the pillar of every conversation. 255 00:12:02.462 --> 00:12:05.022 And I just have gone back recently and reread 256 00:12:05.022 --> 00:12:08.348 that to keep asking myself, okay, if I'm at 257 00:12:08.348 --> 00:12:13.720 an impasse or I'm unsure, what is the common 258 00:12:14.570 --> 00:12:16.636 milestone that we all have to hit here? 259 00:12:16.636 --> 00:12:19.724 Or what is the common interest that we all have. 260 00:12:19.724 --> 00:12:21.728 And if I can keep bringing everybody back to 261 00:12:21.728 --> 00:12:24.576 that then we can keep the conversation going. 262 00:12:24.576 --> 00:12:27.888 We don't have people digging in on a specific point of 263 00:12:27.888 --> 00:12:31.776 view and these are not easy conversations as I said. 264 00:12:31.776 --> 00:12:35.348 So you got to pick something to focus on, as 265 00:12:35.348 --> 00:12:39.386 you said in particular if there are less resources. 266 00:12:39.386 --> 00:12:41.988 So let me just going down that path, one more point. 267 00:12:41.988 --> 00:12:44.084 If there are less resources involved, you either need to 268 00:12:44.084 --> 00:12:48.728 get to a decision quicker, you have finite I think 269 00:12:48.728 --> 00:12:50.174 both of you have to figure out when you're dealing 270 00:12:50.174 --> 00:12:52.142 with that client, you have finite resources. 271 00:12:52.142 --> 00:12:55.086 At some point somebody has to make a decision 272 00:12:55.086 --> 00:12:59.220 because do you find there's any impatience in that? 273 00:13:01.770 --> 00:13:03.772 There's people pleasers everywhere, right? 274 00:13:03.772 --> 00:13:06.732 So what I find is somebody's going to come 275 00:13:06.732 --> 00:13:10.220 to the rescue and sign up to do something 276 00:13:10.830 --> 00:13:15.568 that is mostly impossible and sometimes they will end 277 00:13:15.568 --> 00:13:19.520 up doing it and that's super human. Far out. 278 00:13:19.520 --> 00:13:21.364 Thank you for working 24/7 for the 279 00:13:21.364 --> 00:13:23.828 last three weeks to make that happen. Right? 280 00:13:23.828 --> 00:13:31.892 But the unfortunate issue is that more times 281 00:13:31.892 --> 00:13:34.888 people can't do all that work and even 282 00:13:34.888 --> 00:13:39.262 though they will try to do the extend 283 00:13:39.262 --> 00:13:44.472 themselves beyond human capability, it's just not possible. 284 00:13:44.472 --> 00:13:46.984 So they take it on themselves. 285 00:13:46.984 --> 00:13:50.504 And look, I try to do that sometimes too and I have 286 00:13:50.504 --> 00:13:52.364 people on my team, I see them doing that and I have 287 00:13:52.364 --> 00:13:55.980 to say please, like your job is not to work 24/7. 288 00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:57.640 Let's be reasonable here. 289 00:13:58.490 --> 00:14:01.264 This is a long journey we're on together. 290 00:14:01.264 --> 00:14:03.878 Let's not kill ourselves in the first mile. 291 00:14:03.878 --> 00:14:06.368 Like let's be reasonable about this. 292 00:14:06.368 --> 00:14:09.568 And it's hard when you really want somebody to be or 293 00:14:09.568 --> 00:14:13.178 a project to be successful or a team to be successful. 294 00:14:13.178 --> 00:14:17.722 It's really hard pulling back and saying that's 295 00:14:17.722 --> 00:14:21.994 not possible in realistic terms because we don't 296 00:14:21.994 --> 00:14:23.796 have the resources, we don't have the money, 297 00:14:23.796 --> 00:14:25.240 we don't have the time, whatever. 298 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.050 The thing is that you've had to remove, 299 00:14:29.750 --> 00:14:31.432 you have to be careful that the people 300 00:14:31.432 --> 00:14:34.584 pleasers don't jump in to save the day. 301 00:14:34.584 --> 00:14:36.168 So that gets me to the second one. 302 00:14:36.168 --> 00:14:37.022 That's a human resource. 303 00:14:37.022 --> 00:14:38.728 So we'll talk about the partners and 304 00:14:38.728 --> 00:14:39.938 then we'll talk about human resources. 305 00:14:39.938 --> 00:14:42.268 Then let's talk about the automation, maybe technology and 306 00:14:42.268 --> 00:14:44.338 then we'll end it up with maybe innovation. 307 00:14:44.338 --> 00:14:46.924 So you just jumped into the human side 308 00:14:46.924 --> 00:14:48.652 and so how do you coach that? 309 00:14:48.652 --> 00:14:49.820 How do you manage that? 310 00:14:49.820 --> 00:14:54.240 I've had people who work for me that wanted 311 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:56.448 to do everything and they couldn't say no. 312 00:14:56.448 --> 00:14:58.288 And the problem was if you can't say 313 00:14:58.288 --> 00:15:01.908 no and you can't deliver it, you not 314 00:15:01.908 --> 00:15:05.520 only hurt yourself, you hurt the whole project. 315 00:15:06.290 --> 00:15:12.586 I think it's that conversation, right, is giving them permission 316 00:15:12.586 --> 00:15:17.608 by helping them understand that no one can do it 317 00:15:17.608 --> 00:15:19.528 all and we don't have to do it all. 318 00:15:19.528 --> 00:15:21.214 We have to be reasonable. 319 00:15:21.214 --> 00:15:23.134 We have to set expectations 320 00:15:23.134 --> 00:15:25.330 and deliver against expectations. 321 00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:27.742 That's the conversation. 322 00:15:27.742 --> 00:15:30.812 I'm not saying I've successfully done it in every 323 00:15:30.812 --> 00:15:33.900 conversation because again, I've been guilty of this. 324 00:15:33.900 --> 00:15:35.868 I've seen people on my team still do 325 00:15:35.868 --> 00:15:38.396 it and it's all for the right reason. 326 00:15:38.396 --> 00:15:40.544 And when you have somebody that's doing something for the 327 00:15:40.544 --> 00:15:43.020 right reason, it's hard to coach them out of it. 328 00:15:43.710 --> 00:15:50.038 But I think in the volume of change, we've 329 00:15:50.038 --> 00:15:52.720 had so much change in this last year. 330 00:15:53.570 --> 00:15:57.348 Everyone says it's unprecedented and it's cliche, but I 331 00:15:57.348 --> 00:16:00.340 just think about it's not just the big news 332 00:16:00.340 --> 00:16:02.564 changes that have been going on, but all the 333 00:16:02.564 --> 00:16:06.152 reaction to that down below it. 334 00:16:06.152 --> 00:16:12.990 And it's been personal, community, professional. 335 00:16:12.990 --> 00:16:18.978 It's a lot and I think it's a little bit easier. 336 00:16:18.978 --> 00:16:20.604 I don't know, I just find people are a 337 00:16:20.604 --> 00:16:23.372 little more open than they've ever been to these 338 00:16:23.372 --> 00:16:26.550 kind of tough conversations and being more vulnerable. 339 00:16:27.370 --> 00:16:29.052 And I find that I have to be 340 00:16:29.052 --> 00:16:31.794 vulnerable in order to have these conversations. 341 00:16:31.794 --> 00:16:33.152 I was going to say, how do you actually 342 00:16:33.152 --> 00:16:34.592 get people to do that, by the way? 343 00:16:34.592 --> 00:16:35.584 If you're doing that and you got 344 00:16:35.584 --> 00:16:37.078 your team to do that, that's fantastic, 345 00:16:37.078 --> 00:16:40.640 because I don't think that's the norm. 346 00:16:40.640 --> 00:16:48.964 Yeah, look again, 100% no, but I feel that I 347 00:16:48.964 --> 00:16:50.404 don't know, maybe we should get my team on the 348 00:16:50.404 --> 00:16:55.670 call to have this conversation, but I've pretty much taken. 349 00:16:55.670 --> 00:16:56.888 I used to be a closed book. 350 00:16:56.888 --> 00:16:59.086 I didn't talk about anything personal, I didn't reveal. 351 00:16:59.086 --> 00:17:02.478 I would never share my failures. 352 00:17:02.478 --> 00:17:04.685 I now openly share my failures. 353 00:17:04.685 --> 00:17:06.887 I openly share my vulnerabilities, my 354 00:17:06.887 --> 00:17:09.329 fears to a certain degree. 355 00:17:09.329 --> 00:17:10.268 I can't do it to the point 356 00:17:10.268 --> 00:17:11.746 where I'm making other people scared. 357 00:17:11.746 --> 00:17:14.700 Right, because that's the other thing. 358 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:17.675 There's a fine line leaders have to walk of being 359 00:17:17.675 --> 00:17:22.722 vulnerable, but not so vulnerable that people can't have confidence 360 00:17:22.722 --> 00:17:24.464 that you know what you're doing and you'll get the 361 00:17:24.464 --> 00:17:26.736 job done or lead them to get the job done. 362 00:17:26.736 --> 00:17:28.864 So there's a fine line that you have to 363 00:17:28.864 --> 00:17:33.652 walk on being willing to be vulnerable, to have 364 00:17:33.652 --> 00:17:36.730 your team vulnerable so you can have those conversations, 365 00:17:36.730 --> 00:17:41.178 those tough conversations, and then you've got to commit 366 00:17:41.178 --> 00:17:44.052 to the people to make them successful and hold 367 00:17:44.052 --> 00:17:45.886 them up and ensure they're successful. 368 00:17:45.886 --> 00:17:49.288 Not do the job for them, but arm them, commit to 369 00:17:49.288 --> 00:17:52.536 them, make sure that they have the support that they need. 370 00:17:52.536 --> 00:17:56.172 And these are leadership lessons that we've been prepared in 371 00:17:56.172 --> 00:18:01.400 getting for years now, right, and we're learning more as 372 00:18:02.010 --> 00:18:04.924 post COVID times are changing us yet again. 373 00:18:04.924 --> 00:18:09.130 We're learning more about what our employees 374 00:18:09.870 --> 00:18:11.568 need to be successful and what our 375 00:18:11.568 --> 00:18:13.062 partners need to be successful. 376 00:18:13.062 --> 00:18:17.552 And a lot of this is today we have to be 377 00:18:17.552 --> 00:18:25.514 open and flexible, but clear on our expectations because we can't 378 00:18:25.514 --> 00:18:27.840 be so flexible that we can't run a business. 379 00:18:30.050 --> 00:18:33.268 And I think in some ways we've been 380 00:18:33.268 --> 00:18:35.956 testing the boundaries of that a little bit. Right? 381 00:18:35.956 --> 00:18:39.188 And so some companies are pulling way back 382 00:18:39.188 --> 00:18:40.840 in and saying, everybody back to the office. 383 00:18:40.840 --> 00:18:42.792 Some companies that's what I was thinking of. 384 00:18:42.792 --> 00:18:44.398 I was thinking of work from home, don't 385 00:18:44.398 --> 00:18:45.912 work from home, what's in the middle? 386 00:18:45.912 --> 00:18:49.964 We got very flexible for quite a long time on that. 387 00:18:49.964 --> 00:18:53.148 And now most companies are trying to find where's the 388 00:18:53.148 --> 00:18:56.508 line in hybrid have some people in some of the 389 00:18:56.508 --> 00:18:59.372 times, most of the people in some of the time. 390 00:18:59.372 --> 00:19:00.992 And every company's got their own 391 00:19:00.992 --> 00:19:04.010 culture and are defining those rules. 392 00:19:04.590 --> 00:19:05.728 And they just need to be 393 00:19:05.728 --> 00:19:07.824 clear on what the expectation is. 394 00:19:07.824 --> 00:19:10.208 As we work with partners, we need to understand 395 00:19:10.208 --> 00:19:13.322 what are their boundaries, what are their work styles, 396 00:19:13.322 --> 00:19:15.972 how is their culture changed, and what are we 397 00:19:15.972 --> 00:19:20.484 doing to support that as part of our business 398 00:19:20.484 --> 00:19:23.012 model in as much as we can. 399 00:19:23.012 --> 00:19:24.648 And again, it comes back 400 00:19:24.648 --> 00:19:27.438 to constant conversations about alignment. 401 00:19:27.438 --> 00:19:32.904 Are we aligned as organizations in our go to market, 402 00:19:32.904 --> 00:19:36.770 in our culture, in our aspirations and our goals? 403 00:19:36.770 --> 00:19:39.400 What are the roles we're expecting of each other? 404 00:19:39.930 --> 00:19:43.160 And when there's conflict of any kind, 405 00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:45.986 how do we manage that conflict? 406 00:19:45.986 --> 00:19:50.476 What are our escalation agreements on these things? 407 00:19:50.476 --> 00:19:53.968 Because we are going to hit impasses, but as long 408 00:19:53.968 --> 00:19:56.608 as we understand how we're both going to handle those, 409 00:19:56.608 --> 00:19:58.144 we're going to get through it and it's going to 410 00:19:58.144 --> 00:20:00.288 be productive and we're going to learn from it. 411 00:20:00.288 --> 00:20:01.968 That's what we hope for. 412 00:20:01.968 --> 00:20:03.100 Personal question. 413 00:20:04.990 --> 00:20:07.126 My weakness has been patience. 414 00:20:07.126 --> 00:20:08.548 And one of the things that I've had 415 00:20:08.548 --> 00:20:09.908 to work on in the past couple of 416 00:20:09.908 --> 00:20:11.578 years going through this has been patience. 417 00:20:11.578 --> 00:20:12.650 So I'm being vulnerable. 418 00:20:12.650 --> 00:20:17.108 That was the thing that just wasn't there for 419 00:20:17.108 --> 00:20:19.736 me, and I really had to work on that. 420 00:20:19.736 --> 00:20:21.624 Anything for you in particular that 421 00:20:21.624 --> 00:20:22.248 you would like to share? 422 00:20:22.248 --> 00:20:24.664 Matter of fact, you don't have to. No. 423 00:20:24.664 --> 00:20:26.828 I would tell you, patience is also, I 424 00:20:26.828 --> 00:20:32.978 think, patience for Type A personalities, overachievers, perfection 425 00:20:32.978 --> 00:20:35.532 and patience are our two Achilles heels, right? 426 00:20:35.532 --> 00:20:37.708 Like, we're always trying to get the best we 427 00:20:37.708 --> 00:20:40.796 can get in the time, the shortest time possible. 428 00:20:40.796 --> 00:20:44.518 And that can have a negative impact on our teams. 429 00:20:44.518 --> 00:20:45.952 And I constantly have to ask 430 00:20:45.952 --> 00:20:47.952 myself, am I going too far? 431 00:20:47.952 --> 00:20:50.850 I've had my team call me out and say, 432 00:20:50.850 --> 00:20:55.410 hey, you're expecting more than we can deliver. 433 00:20:55.410 --> 00:20:58.260 Okay, I went too far. 434 00:20:58.260 --> 00:21:00.068 Thank you for letting me know. 435 00:21:00.068 --> 00:21:02.474 And I've also had them say that, and I've 436 00:21:02.474 --> 00:21:05.438 had to say, you know what, it's the client's 437 00:21:05.438 --> 00:21:08.168 expectation or the executive team is asking us to 438 00:21:08.168 --> 00:21:09.780 push a little harder to get there. 439 00:21:10.710 --> 00:21:13.490 But yeah, probably patience and perfection 440 00:21:14.150 --> 00:21:15.678 hand in hand, very dangerous. 441 00:21:15.678 --> 00:21:19.510 I have to constantly watch myself on those. 442 00:21:19.510 --> 00:21:20.654 Agreed. 443 00:21:20.654 --> 00:21:22.188 All right, well, let's shift gears a little bit. 444 00:21:22.188 --> 00:21:23.746 Let's talk a little bit about automation. 445 00:21:23.746 --> 00:21:24.828 And you and I have talked about 446 00:21:24.828 --> 00:21:26.950 this a couple of times offline. 447 00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:30.384 We hear over and over again, got automate, you 448 00:21:30.384 --> 00:21:32.220 got to automate, you got to automate everything. 449 00:21:33.230 --> 00:21:34.608 You're talking to someone who's run 450 00:21:34.608 --> 00:21:36.860 an MDF company an incentive company. 451 00:21:37.390 --> 00:21:39.648 TCMA been involved pretty much and 452 00:21:39.648 --> 00:21:41.664 watched whole automation grow up. 453 00:21:41.664 --> 00:21:44.464 I'm talking MDF and incentives and PRM and 454 00:21:44.464 --> 00:21:46.240 TCMA and all that sort of stuff. 455 00:21:47.170 --> 00:21:49.796 So I realize it's not perfect but 456 00:21:49.796 --> 00:21:51.882 everybody says, hey Automate, automate, automate. 457 00:21:51.882 --> 00:21:53.802 I'm curious to your perspective. 458 00:21:53.802 --> 00:21:57.252 Time savings involved some of the challenges and 459 00:21:57.252 --> 00:21:59.688 actually even what your team thinks about it. Right. 460 00:21:59.688 --> 00:22:01.640 Because it's one thing to hear 461 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:03.438 from maybe a supplier or vendor. 462 00:22:03.438 --> 00:22:04.648 It's one thing to look at it from an 463 00:22:04.648 --> 00:22:07.484 executive level or management level but it's sort of 464 00:22:07.484 --> 00:22:10.844 curious how even your team thinks about that. Right? 465 00:22:10.844 --> 00:22:14.460 And any side of automation totally open. Yeah. 466 00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:17.666 So look, especially now automation 467 00:22:17.666 --> 00:22:19.088 is the answer to everything. 468 00:22:19.088 --> 00:22:22.048 The more you can automate the more you 469 00:22:22.048 --> 00:22:26.300 can get done, the more accurate potentially. Right. 470 00:22:27.230 --> 00:22:29.958 Whatever process you're setting up, whatever reporting 471 00:22:29.958 --> 00:22:31.978 you're setting up, whatever support you're setting 472 00:22:31.978 --> 00:22:35.924 up, automation solves for a lot of 473 00:22:35.924 --> 00:22:38.372 the challenges we face today. 474 00:22:38.372 --> 00:22:43.112 The challenge we have is always, build 475 00:22:43.112 --> 00:22:49.860 or buy, cost and flexibility and agility. Right. 476 00:22:50.550 --> 00:22:53.848 As things are expanding and contracting, we all 477 00:22:53.848 --> 00:22:56.328 built systems for expansion during COVID because all 478 00:22:56.328 --> 00:22:59.692 of a sudden everybody needed us and technology 479 00:22:59.692 --> 00:23:01.244 was the place to be. 480 00:23:01.244 --> 00:23:02.764 It was great. 481 00:23:02.764 --> 00:23:06.236 And so we all hurried and built things or bought things 482 00:23:06.236 --> 00:23:09.968 and then we started to see a contraction and it's like, 483 00:23:09.968 --> 00:23:12.496 well if we contract here we're going to break that or 484 00:23:12.496 --> 00:23:16.460 if we remove this then this isn't going to work. 485 00:23:18.830 --> 00:23:22.704 And my team will say look we'll just build a 486 00:23:22.704 --> 00:23:25.716 little process on our low code platform or we'll go 487 00:23:25.716 --> 00:23:28.308 do this in Excel and we've got things all over 488 00:23:28.308 --> 00:23:30.202 the place and then how does it all interwork? 489 00:23:30.202 --> 00:23:32.148 And what ends up happening is you 490 00:23:32.148 --> 00:23:35.732 have manual processes tying automation together. 491 00:23:35.732 --> 00:23:36.996 That's what ends up happening. 492 00:23:36.996 --> 00:23:39.172 And we used to come at Auto-magical, right? 493 00:23:39.172 --> 00:23:41.512 Auto-magical, that's great on the front end, 494 00:23:41.512 --> 00:23:43.640 not so great on the back end. Yeah. 495 00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:47.852 But I need experts like you to tell me and 496 00:23:47.852 --> 00:23:50.444 guide me on how do I deal with this. 497 00:23:50.444 --> 00:23:54.188 Because look, I'm one of those business, you know 498 00:23:54.188 --> 00:23:56.706 the client I mentioned earlier who had scope creep? 499 00:23:56.706 --> 00:23:58.210 I'm guilty. 500 00:23:58.210 --> 00:24:00.348 I start out with a little project and I can by 501 00:24:00.348 --> 00:24:02.272 the time we're two weeks into it I got five more 502 00:24:02.272 --> 00:24:04.838 ideas and three weeks into it I got 20 more ideas 503 00:24:04.838 --> 00:24:08.182 and a month into it I got 60 more ideas. 504 00:24:08.182 --> 00:24:13.236 So I know scope creep very well and very guilty of it. 505 00:24:13.236 --> 00:24:18.292 And I need the platform vendors who really understand 506 00:24:18.292 --> 00:24:21.828 this stuff to say this is the kind of 507 00:24:21.828 --> 00:24:23.832 thing that you want to plan for or this 508 00:24:23.832 --> 00:24:26.660 is how you can bring this together. 509 00:24:28.470 --> 00:24:30.872 I've been in seven or eight 510 00:24:30.872 --> 00:24:33.368 different companies now nine companies. 511 00:24:33.368 --> 00:24:35.720 I've used all kinds of best of 512 00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:39.068 breed and all kinds of homegrown and 513 00:24:39.068 --> 00:24:41.990 they all have their advantages and disadvantages. 514 00:24:44.490 --> 00:24:46.508 I don't know what the next set of innovation is going 515 00:24:46.508 --> 00:24:49.020 to bring in this but I certainly think we could. 516 00:24:50.910 --> 00:24:59.310 The martech, especially landscape, is challenging. 517 00:24:59.310 --> 00:25:04.468 To figure out how to build the right stack to 518 00:25:04.468 --> 00:25:08.490 drive your business and have that flexibility, it's tough. 519 00:25:08.490 --> 00:25:09.162 It's tough. 520 00:25:09.162 --> 00:25:12.618 I do think having been involved in MDF 521 00:25:12.618 --> 00:25:15.760 and incentives and PRM and TCMA, all that, 522 00:25:16.370 --> 00:25:19.150 I do think there is a bright spot. 523 00:25:19.150 --> 00:25:20.958 I do think there's light at the end of the tunnel. 524 00:25:20.958 --> 00:25:22.360 It's not a train coming. 525 00:25:22.360 --> 00:25:24.968 It's going to work, but it's taken some time 526 00:25:24.968 --> 00:25:27.852 because I don't think everyone has really pulled together. 527 00:25:27.852 --> 00:25:31.996 I think a lot of the martech companies have 528 00:25:31.996 --> 00:25:34.988 been siloed in their thinking and what happens, what 529 00:25:34.988 --> 00:25:37.084 you were talking about, when you start build or 530 00:25:37.084 --> 00:25:40.108 buy and you end up halfway, and we all 531 00:25:40.108 --> 00:25:42.290 sort of work together in this, right? When it's halfway. 532 00:25:42.290 --> 00:25:44.364 Look, you can do anything in an Excel spreadsheet, but you 533 00:25:44.364 --> 00:25:46.124 can also make a lot of mistakes and it takes a 534 00:25:46.124 --> 00:25:49.004 lot of time, and everybody knows it's a problem, and then 535 00:25:49.004 --> 00:25:50.612 you end up with a bunch of silos is. 536 00:25:50.612 --> 00:25:52.884 I do think the vendors out there 537 00:25:52.884 --> 00:25:54.436 are starting to figure all this out. 538 00:25:54.436 --> 00:25:56.148 I think another thing is they're all trying to figure 539 00:25:56.148 --> 00:25:58.452 out how to truly make it a SaaS platform. 540 00:25:58.452 --> 00:26:00.004 You and I talked about that. 541 00:26:00.004 --> 00:26:02.826 Not everything that's out there is configurable. 542 00:26:02.826 --> 00:26:04.868 There's still a lot of coding, and I 543 00:26:04.868 --> 00:26:07.384 do think organizations are getting better at that. 544 00:26:07.384 --> 00:26:08.776 I get to be the first one says 545 00:26:08.776 --> 00:26:12.568 ecosystem orchestration, whatever that means in someone's mind. 546 00:26:12.568 --> 00:26:14.648 The ideal piece is I think you should have a 547 00:26:14.648 --> 00:26:17.448 piece of technology that has a single layer data, has 548 00:26:17.448 --> 00:26:21.212 a single view across the top, and has a single 549 00:26:21.212 --> 00:26:23.628 data layer underneath it, and a bunch of apps run 550 00:26:23.628 --> 00:26:25.730 up underneath it, and it's all interchangeable. 551 00:26:25.730 --> 00:26:26.668 I mean, if I'm in your 552 00:26:26.668 --> 00:26:28.252 shoes, that's what I'm looking for. 553 00:26:28.252 --> 00:26:31.132 And maybe you're a year or two away from that 554 00:26:31.132 --> 00:26:35.376 being really good, I just don't see it not happening. 555 00:26:35.376 --> 00:26:36.224 Do you remember? 556 00:26:36.224 --> 00:26:37.888 You probably do remember, because we've both 557 00:26:37.888 --> 00:26:38.960 been doing this for a while. 558 00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.208 If you bought an MDF platform ten years ago, 559 00:26:42.208 --> 00:26:45.028 it was all bespoke, it was all custom. 560 00:26:45.028 --> 00:26:46.980 Look, I used to have a programmer that 561 00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:49.962 a very large vendor would call at midnight 562 00:26:49.962 --> 00:26:51.812 and he would code it and fix it. 563 00:26:51.812 --> 00:26:53.060 And he was really happy. 564 00:26:53.060 --> 00:26:55.352 And I was like, that is not good. 565 00:26:55.352 --> 00:26:56.930 This does not scale. 566 00:26:57.670 --> 00:26:59.144 We can't do that. 567 00:26:59.144 --> 00:27:02.360 And then it makes it so hard for what your people 568 00:27:02.360 --> 00:27:07.048 to be successful, because I think the optimal supplier makes it 569 00:27:07.048 --> 00:27:09.278 really easy for you and your people to operate. 570 00:27:09.278 --> 00:27:10.732 It's not just is it easy and simple 571 00:27:10.732 --> 00:27:11.868 for the partner, but it needs to be 572 00:27:11.868 --> 00:27:14.028 really easy and simple for you guys too. 573 00:27:14.028 --> 00:27:15.836 And I did get there. 574 00:27:15.836 --> 00:27:19.084 Well, I think about it again, I agree with 575 00:27:19.084 --> 00:27:21.488 you 100%, and I think about it even a 576 00:27:21.488 --> 00:27:24.128 step further if we think about the client, right? 577 00:27:24.128 --> 00:27:26.096 So if a client has a 578 00:27:26.096 --> 00:27:28.912 technology stack to run their business. 579 00:27:28.912 --> 00:27:31.344 And we see that technology stack kind 580 00:27:31.344 --> 00:27:32.884 of play out over and over. 581 00:27:32.884 --> 00:27:37.090 You've got the martech stack, you've got the HR 582 00:27:37.090 --> 00:27:40.212 stack, you've got the ERP stack, and then you 583 00:27:40.212 --> 00:27:43.460 have kind of platforms like ours where they're building 584 00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:48.942 very specialized, highly transactional, workflow based systems. 585 00:27:48.942 --> 00:27:51.086 Right, but we see the same vendors 586 00:27:51.086 --> 00:27:52.408 over and over and over again. 587 00:27:52.408 --> 00:27:54.392 Wouldn't it be great if we had, 588 00:27:54.392 --> 00:27:55.966 I'm going to call it a marketplace. 589 00:27:55.966 --> 00:27:58.830 That might not be the right word, but an environment. 590 00:27:58.830 --> 00:28:00.994 Okay, well that's a whole separate conversation if we've 591 00:28:00.994 --> 00:28:02.268 got to go down there because it'd be pretty 592 00:28:02.268 --> 00:28:03.900 cool if it all was there, right? 593 00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:07.522 Yeah, like the ecosystem of each vendor's ecosystem 594 00:28:07.522 --> 00:28:10.288 played together to say, look, we're going to 595 00:28:10.288 --> 00:28:12.639 do enablement around the staff, we're going to 596 00:28:12.639 --> 00:28:14.182 do marketing around the staff. 597 00:28:14.182 --> 00:28:17.366 We're going to do because when these clients 598 00:28:17.366 --> 00:28:20.256 are thinking about these things, they can't think 599 00:28:20.256 --> 00:28:24.522 about one app or one vendor in isolation. 600 00:28:24.522 --> 00:28:26.628 They've got to think about, hey, if I 601 00:28:26.628 --> 00:28:29.604 make this decision around this technology, it's going 602 00:28:29.604 --> 00:28:31.316 to affect all the other things. 603 00:28:31.316 --> 00:28:32.964 So how do these things play? 604 00:28:32.964 --> 00:28:35.028 And you don't see that very often. 605 00:28:35.028 --> 00:28:36.808 You might see two vendors going out 606 00:28:36.808 --> 00:28:39.694 with joint messaging or co-branding. 607 00:28:39.694 --> 00:28:40.712 You might see three. 608 00:28:40.712 --> 00:28:42.808 Now that the hyperscalers are doing a lot of the 609 00:28:42.808 --> 00:28:46.078 kind of co-marketing type of stuff, but you don't 610 00:28:46.078 --> 00:28:48.962 have just three vendors in a true tech stack. 611 00:28:48.962 --> 00:28:51.320 You might have 7 or 8, 10. 612 00:28:52.410 --> 00:28:54.668 Why can't we figure out how to get a 613 00:28:54.668 --> 00:28:57.772 system where this stuff gets pulled together and we 614 00:28:57.772 --> 00:29:02.070 work together to enable that stack for the client 615 00:29:02.070 --> 00:29:05.552 thinking, putting the client first, that would be an 616 00:29:05.552 --> 00:29:07.366 innovation where everybody feels safe. 617 00:29:07.366 --> 00:29:09.168 We're all getting our words in, we're all getting 618 00:29:09.168 --> 00:29:12.292 our messages and we're getting to that buyer to 619 00:29:12.292 --> 00:29:16.932 make the buyer's decision and buyer's understanding of that 620 00:29:16.932 --> 00:29:20.986 stack so much better, faster, easier. 621 00:29:20.986 --> 00:29:22.564 That would be very cool. 622 00:29:22.564 --> 00:29:23.940 I don't know if we can get there, 623 00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:25.412 so okay, I think three things on that. 624 00:29:25.412 --> 00:29:27.064 First of all, the partners would love it 625 00:29:27.064 --> 00:29:29.304 because partners, there's like six, they understand there 626 00:29:29.304 --> 00:29:30.648 are other partners involved in it. 627 00:29:30.648 --> 00:29:32.734 You got an ISB, you got a reseller, you've 628 00:29:32.734 --> 00:29:35.608 got all sorts of partners that are coming in. 629 00:29:35.608 --> 00:29:37.300 So I think they would like that. 630 00:29:37.910 --> 00:29:39.372 There are a couple of organizations like 631 00:29:39.372 --> 00:29:41.068 Partnership Leaders is kind of interesting, right? 632 00:29:41.068 --> 00:29:42.962 They're a new and up and coming organization. 633 00:29:42.962 --> 00:29:47.068 I know they did Catalyst event in Miami last 634 00:29:47.068 --> 00:29:48.380 year and they did one in Denver. 635 00:29:48.380 --> 00:29:50.044 And so they spent a lot 636 00:29:50.044 --> 00:29:52.784 of time talking about doing that. 637 00:29:52.784 --> 00:29:54.688 So I think there's organizations that 638 00:29:54.688 --> 00:29:55.984 are kind of thinking that way. 639 00:29:55.984 --> 00:29:59.152 I think partners would love it, believe it or not. 640 00:29:59.152 --> 00:30:01.150 I hear distribution. 641 00:30:01.150 --> 00:30:03.984 So distribution is trying to figure out how they add value 642 00:30:03.984 --> 00:30:06.868 and they're sitting there thinking, okay, I don't want to just 643 00:30:06.868 --> 00:30:09.274 be a warehouse, I don't want to be a bank. 644 00:30:09.274 --> 00:30:11.508 But I see the partners here, I see all. 645 00:30:11.508 --> 00:30:13.924 The vendors here, I see the end user here. 646 00:30:13.924 --> 00:30:16.248 They're actually in a pretty interesting place if 647 00:30:16.248 --> 00:30:18.168 you're talking on the long tail side in 648 00:30:18.168 --> 00:30:21.422 particular to actually create this orchestration. 649 00:30:21.422 --> 00:30:23.880 And I think that actually makes a lot of sense. 650 00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:27.288 I think there I've been out of the kind 651 00:30:27.288 --> 00:30:30.508 of direct contact to distribution for a couple of 652 00:30:30.508 --> 00:30:32.722 years now because Pega, we don't use distribution. 653 00:30:32.722 --> 00:30:36.252 But I do remember when I was at IBM, both 654 00:30:36.252 --> 00:30:39.724 Ingram and Tech Data were working around this kind of 655 00:30:39.724 --> 00:30:41.372 trying to figure out how to bring it all together. 656 00:30:41.372 --> 00:30:44.480 And I haven't seen it as kind of a big play. 657 00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:46.112 They may already have it in place for their 658 00:30:46.112 --> 00:30:49.904 partners, but I know clients are still trying to 659 00:30:49.904 --> 00:30:52.116 piece some of this together themselves and would love 660 00:30:52.116 --> 00:30:54.468 the help of how this could all come together. 661 00:30:54.468 --> 00:30:57.524 Yeah, I think it's a huge opportunity for someone. 662 00:30:57.524 --> 00:30:59.828 I totally agree, this goes all the way 663 00:30:59.828 --> 00:31:04.788 back when I was an MSP in the 2000's, right 664 00:31:04.788 --> 00:31:07.018 I had 14 solutions as a managed service provider. 665 00:31:07.018 --> 00:31:08.728 I was like, why am I going to 666 00:31:08.728 --> 00:31:11.022 all these places for my MDF and incentives? 667 00:31:11.022 --> 00:31:12.520 Why couldn't I have it all in one place? 668 00:31:12.520 --> 00:31:15.912 So I think everybody's trying to streamline, I think 669 00:31:15.912 --> 00:31:19.042 automation will get there, but I also think there's 670 00:31:19.042 --> 00:31:20.764 innovation that's going to help as well. 671 00:31:20.764 --> 00:31:23.370 So maybe we can wrap it up with, 672 00:31:23.370 --> 00:31:28.310 I think OpenAI and chatGPT is everywhere. 673 00:31:29.690 --> 00:31:32.912 When I'm at a cocktail party and everybody's talking about 674 00:31:32.912 --> 00:31:36.374 chatGPT for their kids, or I'm even at church, 675 00:31:36.374 --> 00:31:38.768 and the pastor is talking about how he put his 676 00:31:38.768 --> 00:31:42.070 name in chatGPT before his sermon. 677 00:31:42.070 --> 00:31:44.720 And it came up and some was good and some was bad. 678 00:31:45.330 --> 00:31:47.690 I mean, it's gone mainstream faster 679 00:31:47.690 --> 00:31:49.716 than anything that I've seen. 680 00:31:49.716 --> 00:31:51.188 As a matter of fact, chatGPT is 681 00:31:51.188 --> 00:31:55.012 the fastest growing per user technology in history. 682 00:31:55.012 --> 00:31:57.528 Yeah, I saw a chart, where did I see that 683 00:31:57.528 --> 00:32:00.792 chart where it showed like compared to other technologies like 684 00:32:00.792 --> 00:32:04.062 social media and some of the other technologies. 685 00:32:04.062 --> 00:32:06.348 And then it had chatGPT and it was 686 00:32:06.348 --> 00:32:09.148 like straight up and everything else had kind of 687 00:32:09.148 --> 00:32:13.990 a nice line curve, but yeah, scary. 688 00:32:14.730 --> 00:32:15.996 This is what everybody wants. 689 00:32:15.996 --> 00:32:18.492 Everybody wants a simple, like ask 690 00:32:18.492 --> 00:32:19.676 a question and get an answer. 691 00:32:19.676 --> 00:32:21.408 Nobody wants to have to try to figure out the 692 00:32:21.408 --> 00:32:25.630 right syntax or the right questions or the right answers. 693 00:32:25.630 --> 00:32:26.688 And of course all the 694 00:32:26.688 --> 00:32:29.050 students want their papers written. 695 00:32:30.110 --> 00:32:31.100 They do. 696 00:32:32.590 --> 00:32:34.394 Are you guys using chatGPT? 697 00:32:34.394 --> 00:32:35.562 Have you guys got involved? 698 00:32:35.562 --> 00:32:37.908 Do you see that as a place in which 699 00:32:37.908 --> 00:32:40.650 you guys do? Well from a technology perspective 700 00:32:40.650 --> 00:32:43.220 we have work underway with chatGPT. 701 00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:45.864 We are a strategic partner with Google. 702 00:32:45.864 --> 00:32:47.438 So there's announcements. 703 00:32:47.438 --> 00:32:51.000 We made a pre-announced we announced our intention and 704 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.342 we have our big event coming up in June. 705 00:32:53.342 --> 00:32:55.772 I believe there will be some announcements there on 706 00:32:55.772 --> 00:33:00.268 how we've integrated chatGPT into the own expansion of 707 00:33:00.268 --> 00:33:02.760 our own AI work in our platform. 708 00:33:03.290 --> 00:33:04.690 From my perspective. 709 00:33:04.690 --> 00:33:07.772 I was just having a conversation with our team about where 710 00:33:07.772 --> 00:33:11.904 does our portal go with instead of people searching for things 711 00:33:11.904 --> 00:33:15.488 or having to go through a process on the site, why 712 00:33:15.488 --> 00:33:18.400 can't I just go in and say, tell me how to 713 00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:22.662 XYZ, fill in the blank and have chatGPT 714 00:33:22.662 --> 00:33:25.100 just give me the answer. Right. 715 00:33:25.970 --> 00:33:29.796 Especially for partners that don't have a direct relationship 716 00:33:29.796 --> 00:33:33.684 and are exploring or building their business around us 717 00:33:33.684 --> 00:33:36.312 and aren't yet in the formal program and they 718 00:33:36.312 --> 00:33:39.176 just want to know how to engage us. 719 00:33:39.176 --> 00:33:40.750 That would be ideal. 720 00:33:40.750 --> 00:33:44.100 So we are having those conversations and trying to 721 00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:47.480 lay out our plan for how we get there. 722 00:33:48.330 --> 00:33:50.498 So we're seeing it from our perspective. 723 00:33:50.498 --> 00:33:52.722 We're marketing automation, channel marketing automation 724 00:33:52.722 --> 00:33:54.252 platform it's pretty interesting, right? 725 00:33:54.252 --> 00:33:57.282 Even at the most base level what I've seen partners 726 00:33:57.282 --> 00:34:00.658 biggest fear besides not having content or not having leads 727 00:34:00.658 --> 00:34:02.988 is what to do when they get content, right? 728 00:34:02.988 --> 00:34:04.502 And it's a real challenge. 729 00:34:04.502 --> 00:34:06.368 You could go out and create the best content in the 730 00:34:06.368 --> 00:34:08.351 world and you send it to a partner, especially the small 731 00:34:08.351 --> 00:34:11.391 partners and they're like oh my gosh, how do I send 732 00:34:11.391 --> 00:34:13.674 an email and a subject line to this vertical? 733 00:34:13.674 --> 00:34:18.132 And I know that sounds silly but it's not. 734 00:34:18.132 --> 00:34:21.764 It's a frozen moment for a partner who a 735 00:34:21.764 --> 00:34:23.812 lot of them don't have big marketing teams to 736 00:34:23.812 --> 00:34:25.704 understand how to do something like that. 737 00:34:25.704 --> 00:34:28.520 And it's not perfect but it's pretty amazing. 738 00:34:28.520 --> 00:34:30.792 And that's the road we're going to go down to 739 00:34:30.792 --> 00:34:35.239 is how do we help you get your content to 740 00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:38.364 those partners and get those partners to really use it? 741 00:34:38.364 --> 00:34:41.324 Because if they can engage and get a 742 00:34:41.324 --> 00:34:44.310 subject line and email to a particular vertical 743 00:34:45.050 --> 00:34:47.116 now, we're going to have to train something 744 00:34:47.116 --> 00:34:49.132 like chatGPT in our instance, right. 745 00:34:49.132 --> 00:34:52.614 So it's all up to date but that's totally doable. 746 00:34:52.614 --> 00:34:54.608 Just a huge time saver and 747 00:34:54.608 --> 00:34:56.719 that's at a very basic level. 748 00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:59.328 I'm sure OpenAI could do so many things but I 749 00:34:59.328 --> 00:35:01.808 just think from a marketing perspective in the channel it 750 00:35:01.808 --> 00:35:04.698 can really, really be a time saver for partners. 751 00:35:04.698 --> 00:35:06.202 Yeah, 100% agreed. 752 00:35:06.202 --> 00:35:08.666 I mean, look, none of us have the patience. 753 00:35:08.666 --> 00:35:10.218 Our patience keeps getting shorter 754 00:35:10.218 --> 00:35:11.098 and shorter and shorter. 755 00:35:11.098 --> 00:35:13.290 Our attention spans get shorter and shorter, shorter. 756 00:35:13.290 --> 00:35:14.724 So do I want to go do a 757 00:35:14.724 --> 00:35:16.472 bunch of homework to figure something out? No. 758 00:35:16.472 --> 00:35:18.248 I just want somebody to tell me what, tell me 759 00:35:18.248 --> 00:35:22.248 how to do it and tell me the probabilities of 760 00:35:22.248 --> 00:35:26.248 my success right, of doing this because I could see 761 00:35:26.248 --> 00:35:28.828 where I would get an automated recommendation but I'd want 762 00:35:28.828 --> 00:35:30.760 to be able to validate in some way. 763 00:35:31.450 --> 00:35:33.676 Did they mean for this to be my answer? 764 00:35:33.676 --> 00:35:37.052 How do I go out and verify that that's the one 765 00:35:37.052 --> 00:35:40.140 thing and maybe it's just me and my suspicious mind. 766 00:35:41.790 --> 00:35:46.592 Was this just the trained answer for somebody that sort of looks 767 00:35:46.592 --> 00:35:49.552 like me or is it really going to work for me. 768 00:35:49.552 --> 00:35:50.832 How do I validate that? 769 00:35:50.832 --> 00:35:51.984 So that's the one thing. 770 00:35:51.984 --> 00:35:54.320 And I guess I would just ask different questions 771 00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:56.164 to see what kind of different answers I would 772 00:35:56.164 --> 00:35:58.500 get to circle around back to that. 773 00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:00.612 But yeah, if I can ask a question and get 774 00:36:00.612 --> 00:36:05.560 a recommendation without having to spend hours searching websites or 775 00:36:05.560 --> 00:36:09.432 reading white papers on best practices, why not? 776 00:36:09.432 --> 00:36:10.952 Yeah, you're right. 777 00:36:10.952 --> 00:36:14.168 I think you've got to be able to validate it, for sure. 778 00:36:14.168 --> 00:36:15.848 I think you need to be able to train it 779 00:36:15.848 --> 00:36:18.328 and make sure that it's all up to date. 780 00:36:18.328 --> 00:36:20.908 And I think you need to understand, I think we're going 781 00:36:20.908 --> 00:36:24.108 to learn how do we prompt it's not just do I 782 00:36:24.108 --> 00:36:26.732 ask a question, how do I ask the right questions? 783 00:36:26.732 --> 00:36:28.076 But I do agree with this. 784 00:36:28.076 --> 00:36:31.184 Validate across, use chatGPT and 785 00:36:31.184 --> 00:36:32.540 you validate it with Google. 786 00:36:34.110 --> 00:36:36.304 There's got to be a way to validate this, right? 787 00:36:36.304 --> 00:36:37.568 Well, when you were saying that, I 788 00:36:37.568 --> 00:36:42.378 was just thinking so everybody started relying 789 00:36:42.378 --> 00:36:44.612 on ratings and rankings, right? 790 00:36:44.612 --> 00:36:48.308 So if chatGPT is recommending things, what's going 791 00:36:48.308 --> 00:36:50.308 to happen with ratings and rankings and how 792 00:36:50.308 --> 00:36:52.468 will I value ratings and rankings versus what 793 00:36:52.468 --> 00:36:53.988 chatGPT is telling me what to do? 794 00:36:53.988 --> 00:36:58.030 It'll be interesting to see what behaviors start to emerge 795 00:36:58.030 --> 00:37:01.750 in the way we think and react to those things. Right. 796 00:37:01.750 --> 00:37:05.000 Because we've all gotten trained to go look at 797 00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:08.520 what's the star rating on that thing right now. 798 00:37:10.090 --> 00:37:14.710 Yeah, I wonder, like you look at G2 to Yelp 799 00:37:15.850 --> 00:37:18.896 everything we do, how many stars it has, what is it? 800 00:37:18.896 --> 00:37:21.078 This will be absolutely facinating. 801 00:37:21.078 --> 00:37:23.702 Will there be influencers on chatGPT? 802 00:37:23.702 --> 00:37:26.192 Look, I think that's interesting. 803 00:37:26.192 --> 00:37:28.032 That is really interesting is right. 804 00:37:28.032 --> 00:37:30.250 Who's going to influence chatGPT? 805 00:37:31.950 --> 00:37:34.400 Okay, we could open Pandora's box. 806 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.548 But literally, if you just want to be able 807 00:37:36.548 --> 00:37:38.452 to write an email and make it sound half 808 00:37:38.452 --> 00:37:41.668 decent, there's some of the simplest things possible that 809 00:37:41.668 --> 00:37:42.900 you can save so much time. 810 00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:45.988 But then once you get broader, then yes, I think the 811 00:37:45.988 --> 00:37:48.392 answer is going to be what do you plug into it? 812 00:37:48.392 --> 00:37:50.248 But remember, information is only as good 813 00:37:50.248 --> 00:37:51.688 as what you get plugged into. 814 00:37:51.688 --> 00:37:55.032 So we could take chatGPT, for instance, on our 815 00:37:55.032 --> 00:37:58.424 system, if your partners were using it and your website 816 00:37:58.424 --> 00:38:01.148 and all of your information was plugged into it, so 817 00:38:01.148 --> 00:38:03.260 it was accurate and update on a regular time. 818 00:38:03.260 --> 00:38:05.788 And then if they searched anything about you, it 819 00:38:05.788 --> 00:38:09.320 would be dependent on your website and your information. 820 00:38:10.330 --> 00:38:12.022 That's going to be totally doable. 821 00:38:12.022 --> 00:38:14.512 You're going to have plugins to this that are 822 00:38:14.512 --> 00:38:17.024 going to be validated by whatever you as a 823 00:38:17.024 --> 00:38:19.472 vendor or anybody think is plugged into it. 824 00:38:19.472 --> 00:38:21.142 I mean, there's going to be plugins 825 00:38:21.142 --> 00:38:22.864 back and forth on all this stuff. 826 00:38:22.864 --> 00:38:24.660 So, yeah, technology is really interesting. 827 00:38:24.660 --> 00:38:27.280 We'll see where something like chatGPT goes, right? 828 00:38:28.850 --> 00:38:29.962 I think it's inevitable. 829 00:38:29.962 --> 00:38:31.924 The question is, how do we make it really work? 830 00:38:31.924 --> 00:38:33.594 When does it become mainstream, 831 00:38:33.594 --> 00:38:35.390 someone argued, its already mainstream. 832 00:38:35.390 --> 00:38:36.734 So I think we'll see how it plays 833 00:38:36.734 --> 00:38:38.680 in the channel, but it has a place. 834 00:38:38.680 --> 00:38:41.624 I have another technology question, sort of for you. 835 00:38:41.624 --> 00:38:47.464 Okay, so Bitcoin digital currency, there was a 836 00:38:47.464 --> 00:38:50.258 lot of talk, and I remember being I'm 837 00:38:50.258 --> 00:38:53.516 a huge proponent until the FTX thing happened. 838 00:38:53.516 --> 00:38:55.564 Maybe now I have a question mark 839 00:38:55.564 --> 00:38:57.042 that brought up a few question marks. 840 00:38:57.042 --> 00:39:01.248 Sure, but at one point, there was a 841 00:39:01.248 --> 00:39:04.918 lot of conversation about marketplaces based on digital 842 00:39:04.918 --> 00:39:10.566 currency and or exchange of Bitcoin. 843 00:39:10.566 --> 00:39:16.772 Do you guys see the market continuing to evolve and 844 00:39:16.772 --> 00:39:22.228 embrace digital currency as a way to support some of 845 00:39:22.228 --> 00:39:25.902 this go to market activity and giving partners the ability 846 00:39:25.902 --> 00:39:30.648 to earn digital currency through activity and then spend that 847 00:39:30.648 --> 00:39:32.568 digital currency and go to market? 848 00:39:32.568 --> 00:39:37.880 Or is the world going to remain based in cash payment? 849 00:39:38.810 --> 00:39:40.680 Look, I think that's a great question. 850 00:39:41.450 --> 00:39:43.640 I think there's two sides to it. 851 00:39:45.930 --> 00:39:48.464 Are partners going to start to be 852 00:39:48.464 --> 00:39:51.942 scored on everything they do, and that's 853 00:39:51.942 --> 00:39:55.648 how we reward, motivate, or incentivize them? 854 00:39:55.648 --> 00:39:57.216 I 100% agree. 855 00:39:57.216 --> 00:39:59.248 The whole tiering and everybody goes, 856 00:39:59.248 --> 00:40:00.832 oh, tiering systems, I'm sorry. 857 00:40:00.832 --> 00:40:06.432 It's just another way of tiering it is a 858 00:40:06.432 --> 00:40:08.420 better way, I think, to tier things right. 859 00:40:08.420 --> 00:40:11.892 Because you're basing it on it's a meritocracy, right? 860 00:40:11.892 --> 00:40:13.560 And you're basing on what they do. 861 00:40:13.560 --> 00:40:15.512 So I absolutely believe in 862 00:40:15.512 --> 00:40:17.854 scoring based reward systems. 863 00:40:17.854 --> 00:40:20.740 What the currency is that's in there? 864 00:40:21.270 --> 00:40:24.230 It could be all over the place. 865 00:40:24.230 --> 00:40:25.752 I had a vendor come to me and said, 866 00:40:25.752 --> 00:40:30.680 hey, we've got all these MDF dollars that someone 867 00:40:30.680 --> 00:40:33.474 all these rebates dollars that someone has earned. 868 00:40:33.474 --> 00:40:35.868 And we could either pay them a rebate, but what if 869 00:40:35.868 --> 00:40:39.330 we gave them MDF dollars instead and gave them a bonus? 870 00:40:39.330 --> 00:40:41.164 And this was ten years ago, I was like, 871 00:40:41.164 --> 00:40:44.288 okay, you're definitely showing me that we need to 872 00:40:44.288 --> 00:40:47.568 figure out how to motivate partners to take their 873 00:40:47.568 --> 00:40:49.232 money and spin it in the most productive way. 874 00:40:49.232 --> 00:40:52.030 But some partners, top line, bottom line, 875 00:40:52.030 --> 00:40:54.208 and actually, do you really care if 876 00:40:54.208 --> 00:40:56.352 they're successful in driving revenue? Right? 877 00:40:56.352 --> 00:40:58.004 Every partner is going to be a little bit different. 878 00:40:58.004 --> 00:41:00.020 So I think the answer is yes all over the place. 879 00:41:00.020 --> 00:41:01.172 How we're going to reward them 880 00:41:01.172 --> 00:41:02.666 and what sort of currency? 881 00:41:02.666 --> 00:41:05.620 Honestly, I don't have a great answer on that. 882 00:41:06.870 --> 00:41:07.620 Interesting. 883 00:41:08.550 --> 00:41:11.464 There's a lot of opportunity again, to build 884 00:41:11.464 --> 00:41:18.012 marketing marketplaces where multiple vendors come together and 885 00:41:18.012 --> 00:41:21.548 can buy and sell services, and it just 886 00:41:21.548 --> 00:41:24.620 makes it easier if everybody's using the same 887 00:41:24.620 --> 00:41:27.612 system and there's some tracking in that. 888 00:41:27.612 --> 00:41:30.928 So I think that's still an innovation to kind of 889 00:41:30.928 --> 00:41:35.680 catch up with the It marketplace in some way. 890 00:41:35.680 --> 00:41:36.592 I think so. 891 00:41:36.592 --> 00:41:40.032 All right, so one last thing. Is that it? 892 00:41:40.032 --> 00:41:41.936 Do you have opportunity, one last thought. 893 00:41:41.936 --> 00:41:43.136 Anything you want to leave 894 00:41:43.136 --> 00:41:44.596 our listeners or viewers with? 895 00:41:44.596 --> 00:41:47.252 Anything that, hey, I'll take it back. 896 00:41:47.252 --> 00:41:49.156 So what do you think about on business 897 00:41:49.156 --> 00:41:50.276 when you wake up in the morning? 898 00:41:50.276 --> 00:41:51.920 What's the first thing on your mind? 899 00:41:54.950 --> 00:41:57.256 The first thing on mind is, I guess, 900 00:41:57.256 --> 00:41:59.540 is, how can I do more better? 901 00:42:02.150 --> 00:42:04.340 Where are we on point? 902 00:42:04.970 --> 00:42:07.500 Where do we have gaps and where have we not started? 903 00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:11.080 So it's start, stop, continue kind of thinking. 904 00:42:13.210 --> 00:42:17.948 And again, I think trying to meet our partners and 905 00:42:17.948 --> 00:42:22.032 our clients where they are and supporting that motion is 906 00:42:22.032 --> 00:42:27.558 our biggest challenge and opportunity at the moment, because everybody's 907 00:42:27.558 --> 00:42:29.616 going through some kind of change right now, and just 908 00:42:29.616 --> 00:42:33.892 trying to run a program as it's published is probably 909 00:42:33.892 --> 00:42:35.680 not very meaningful at the moment. 910 00:42:36.370 --> 00:42:38.954 I think we need that as guidance and guidelines, 911 00:42:38.954 --> 00:42:42.692 but we really need to be responsive to the 912 00:42:42.692 --> 00:42:45.448 challenges everybody's going through right now and help each 913 00:42:45.448 --> 00:42:49.576 other get through that over the next whatever the 914 00:42:49.576 --> 00:42:51.976 Economist would like to do. Yeah. Okay. 915 00:42:51.976 --> 00:42:53.358 Last piece 916 00:42:53.358 --> 00:42:54.968 So how long do you think we're going to be in this? 917 00:42:54.968 --> 00:42:55.976 Do you have any idea? 918 00:42:55.976 --> 00:42:57.016 Have you thought about that? 919 00:42:57.016 --> 00:42:58.716 Are we six months, twelve months? 920 00:42:58.716 --> 00:42:59.804 What do you think? 921 00:42:59.804 --> 00:43:01.772 I'm not an economist, that's for sure. 922 00:43:01.772 --> 00:43:04.210 And the thing is, it's very mixed. 923 00:43:04.210 --> 00:43:07.516 It's like there's some bright, sharp stars and 924 00:43:07.516 --> 00:43:10.242 good things happening, and then there's some challenges. 925 00:43:10.242 --> 00:43:12.992 And every time I draw on the news and I see 926 00:43:12.992 --> 00:43:16.940 OPEC cut production and raise prices, that's not a good sign. 927 00:43:18.270 --> 00:43:20.820 Or interest rates go up again, not a good sign. 928 00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:22.858 But on the other hand, we're 929 00:43:22.858 --> 00:43:26.052 closing new customers and new business. 930 00:43:26.052 --> 00:43:27.440 That's a great sign. 931 00:43:29.890 --> 00:43:31.972 Clients are driving their 932 00:43:31.972 --> 00:43:34.212 digital transformation initiatives forward. 933 00:43:34.212 --> 00:43:36.766 And I know that's kind of a tired expression. 934 00:43:36.766 --> 00:43:40.600 These are not simple transitions they're going through. 935 00:43:40.600 --> 00:43:43.560 These are three year journeys that started. 936 00:43:43.560 --> 00:43:45.538 They were kind of forced into accelerate 937 00:43:45.538 --> 00:43:48.092 because of COVID and they're continuing to 938 00:43:48.092 --> 00:43:49.906 pull those through to completion. 939 00:43:49.906 --> 00:43:54.082 So we are seeing continued, very positive 940 00:43:54.082 --> 00:43:57.474 movement for our clients, but very cautiously. 941 00:43:57.474 --> 00:44:01.900 So I'm hoping we're out of this in early 2024. 942 00:44:03.150 --> 00:44:05.130 Cautiously optimistic? 943 00:44:06.030 --> 00:44:07.552 Yeah, I think so. 944 00:44:07.552 --> 00:44:09.328 That's a pretty good way to go. All right. 945 00:44:09.328 --> 00:44:12.580 Well, Jamie, thank you for spending some time with us. 946 00:44:12.580 --> 00:44:13.428 Thank you. 947 00:44:13.428 --> 00:44:15.236 So what's the best way for anyone 948 00:44:15.236 --> 00:44:16.852 to get in touch with you? 949 00:44:16.852 --> 00:44:18.330 I'm on LinkedIn. 950 00:44:18.330 --> 00:44:20.212 Jamie Mendez on 951 00:44:20.212 --> 00:44:23.098 J.A. Mendez on LinkedIn. Twitter. 952 00:44:23.098 --> 00:44:24.814 I'm always reading Twitter. 953 00:44:24.814 --> 00:44:26.056 I haven't posted in a while. 954 00:44:26.056 --> 00:44:31.192 But either way, and happy to connect with anyone that 955 00:44:31.192 --> 00:44:37.036 wants to chat about marketing, marketplaces, and or how we 956 00:44:37.036 --> 00:44:39.190 go to market together in the tech stack. 957 00:44:40.090 --> 00:44:41.858 Once again, thank you very much, listeners. 958 00:44:41.858 --> 00:44:42.860 Thank you for joining us. 959 00:44:42.860 --> 00:44:44.100 Thanks Steven, have a great day.