Carol Cox: Here. What happens when purposeful
storytelling meets clear,
actionable frameworks?
As you listen in to two of our recent
graduates of our Thought Leader Academy
deliver their signature talks on this episode
of the Speaking Your Brand podcast.
More and more women are making an impact by
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Hi there and welcome to backstage with
Speaking Your Brand. I'm your host,
Carol Cox. Today we have two of our current
Thought Leader Academy clients who are
actually graduating next week.
They will have been with us for eight weeks
working on their signature talks,
their thought leadership messages,
and their pitching and speaking proposals.
I'm excited to bring Aaron,
Mark and Doctor Deborah Stein to you today.
Next week we're going to hear from the three
other women who have been in our Thought
Leader Academy as they deliver the ten minute
version of the signature talks that they have
worked on with us.
And what I love about doing these live shows
is that not only do I get to share with all
of you how amazing these women are,
but to also showcase the different
industries, the different topics that they
represent and that and how much variety it is
and how important it is for you to have that
thought leadership message for the change
that you want to see in the world,
and the change that you want your audience to
be able to do for themselves.
So we're going to have a round table
discussion after Aaron delivers her ten
minute version, and then Debbie presents her
ten minute version of her talk.
So hang tight, listen to them.
Please let us know in the comments what
you're liking. Questions you have.
Cheer them on, and then we'll have that round
table discussion afterwards to talk about
what it was like to put their talk together
and what is next for them as speakers and
thought leaders. All right, Erin,
you are first up. So I'm going to bring your
slides up on the stage.
Awesome. Go ahead and take it away.
Erin Mark: Awesome okay. Thanks so much Carol.
Hi, everybody. All right.
Let's get started. So obviously as you know
my name is Erin Mark.
And this is the beginning of my talk.
So think about something.
Don't you just love that feeling when you
first wake up in the morning and you kind of
look around and think,
wow, everything in my entire life has worked
out exactly the way I wanted it to.
Now, thank God.
Me neither. I was going to say,
if you said yes, please message me
afterwards. I have so many questions.
That space between expectation and reality.
That's where uncertainty lives.
Uncertainty is one of the biggest stressors
we are all living with.
It is causing us so much burnout.
And that's what I talk about.
And here's the good news.
These aren't going to be some big dramatic
changes that I'm going to suggest.
They're small, and it's based on my lived
experiences with research to back it up.
Because for me, uncertainty hasn't been just
an occasional visitor.
It's been a constant companion.
I have spent my entire life training to die.
I want to talk about that a little more in a
second. But first, I want to start with a
little confession about,
oh, maybe ten years ago,
before one of my very first big keynote
talks. I was so nervous.
I had this pounding headache.
So a few seconds before I went on stage,
I reached into my bag,
grabbed some Tylenol, took it when I went to
put it back. That's when I noticed the label.
I didn't take just regular Tylenol.
I had accidentally taken a Tylenol PM.
Instant panic.
I started sweating, my heart was racing.
By the way, that headache the least of my
worries. My brain went into overdrive.
Am I going to start slurring my words on
stage? Am I going to fall asleep in the
middle of this 45 minute keynote?
Is everybody going to think I'm drunk?
Of course, none of that was actually
happening yet, but my brain was fully
reacting to what might happen.
Because that's what our brains do.
They don't wait for danger to show up.
They respond to the possibility of it.
And research shows our brains find
uncertainty more stressful than receiving bad
news. When you don't know what's coming next,
your nervous system is on constant alert.
Okay, so if you are feeling more stressed,
anxious, overwhelmed.
You are not alone.
It is a human response to the world.
We are all living in at work.
That can look like showing up when you're
already exhausted, understaffed,
and still expected to hold it all together.
You're probably being asked to do more with
less. And on top of that,
navigating your own uncertainty in your
personal lives.
Maybe with families, relationships,
finances, your own health.
It's a lot of pressure.
And listen, while I may not know every unique
challenge that you have,
I do know what it's like to live with
uncertainty that doesn't let up.
Which is why right when the MCU was
announcing my name after I took that Tylenol
PM, I had to pause and ask myself one
question what can I control right now?
Because for me, that question has always been
my North Star.
I was born with a fatal illness called cystic
fibrosis, and my life came with an expiration
date. Doctors told my parents I wouldn't live
past 18, and I found that out early on
because I overheard my dad on the phone one
night quietly saying my life expectancy out
loud. I was five years old.
While most kids were dreaming about their
future, I was trying to grasp that I wouldn't
get one. In the night.
After I heard my dad on that phone call,
Make-A-Wish came to our house.
I didn't fully understand what that meant at
the time, but I was putting two and two
together, and I knew I was sick enough to get
a wish. And most kids back then wished for
Disney World. That was sort of the default
and had already been prearranged,
but no one told me that.
So when one of the men from Make-A-Wish
leaned down to ask Aaron,
if you could have one wish to go anywhere in
the world, where would it be?
Well, without hesitation I shouted,
Tahiti! Yes, you heard that right.
And you see that picture Tahiti in French
Polynesia. I was a very exotic five year old,
as you can imagine, the room went silent.
After a couple seconds,
that same man cleared his throat and said,
how about Disney World?
I had a follow up question.
Are there palm trees there?
The entire room shouted,
and you're probably thinking it too.
Yes. So I grudgingly accepted the palm trees
and a chance to meet Mickey and Cinderella.
Even though I don't look pleased in this
picture, I remember thinking,
Tahiti will have to wait.
But not too long, because even at five I knew
I was on limited time.
And limited time changes how you see the
world. Birthdays feel different.
I made it to 18, then 20,
then 30. Each one a bonus I wasn't supposed
to get. I was so grateful,
and I wanted more.
But at 35, that road ran out.
I entered end stage disease and I was dying.
And I remember holding,
excuse me grief in one hand and gratitude in
the other. Grief because I didn't want to go
in gratitude because it was a miracle I got
to live those extra years.
But at the last minute,
as time was running out,
a breakthrough drug was approved and it saved
my life. I didn't die,
I was going to get to live.
But I did not expect how I would feel next.
It was both relief and confusion.
I was preparing to wrap things up and
suddenly I needed a 400 1KA LinkedIn strategy
SPF in my moisturizer,
I have to pause and ask you people been
living like this your whole lives?
This is very stressful.
The future I never thought I have was in
front of me. This identity shift that
happened overnight, almost.
And you don't have to have gone through what
I have to know that feeling of an identity
shift for you.
It could be a role, a goal,
a season of life that has suddenly
disappeared. In psychology,
it's called identity foreclosure.
And it's what we cling so tightly to who we
are. We can't imagine who we could be.
This future that I had wide open came with
almost a lot of pressure.
Positive pressure, but new expectations,
new options, new decisions,
even good change can knock us off balance,
right? We buy a new house,
have a baby, get that job we always wanted,
or get that role we worked really hard to
get. Nothing bad happened,
but suddenly there's more at stake.
And what I learned was everything that I
needed to live, to train,
to live, to really live for this next phase
of my life. I had already learned while
dying. Because struggle has a way of teaching
us things that comfort never does.
What I learned through all of that massive
uncertainty, that burnout I went through.
It wasn't about pushing harder.
It was about staying calm and not just as an
emotion, but as four key pieces that anybody
can use to help survive uncertain moments.
Whether you're a company,
corporation or individual,
it relates to all of it.
Controlling what you can,
adapting, leaning on others and moving
forward. I would be honored to share my
framework with you.
And thanks so much for listening to a little
bit of my story.
Carol Cox: Thank you so much, Erin.
That was fantastic.
Uh, as you know, we've been working closely
over the past few months,
so I'm always inspired when I hear your story
and your message and the message that you
have to share with your audiences before we
bring Debbie on for her ten minutes.
Let me just ask you one quick question.
So how did that feel?
Did it feel as good as going to Disney World
or Tahiti?
Erin Mark: I mean, maybe not of Tahiti,
but it felt just as good as Disney World,
I guess. Okay, you're better than Disney
World. Carol speaking,
your brand is better than going to.
It's almost like at the Super Bowl. Like,
what will you do next? I'm going to see Carol
Cox at Speaking your brand.
Carol Cox: Which you did last week.
And we'll talk about that during the
roundtable, too.
All right. That was amazing.
Um, fantastic delivery as well.
And we'll talk a little bit about that too
during the roundtable.
All right. So, Debbie,
you're next. I'm going to load your slides up
here on the stage.
Let me bring you up.
And so, Debbie, go ahead and take it away.
Deborah Stine: Okay. So I'm doctor Deborah Stine,
I'm founder of the Science and Technology
Policy Academy.
Um, and I Want you to first think about what
societal problems that you care about.
It could be health policy,
just like Erin was talking about.
It could be environment or energy,
national security, homelessness,
whatever it is. Just think about those sort
of problems and what you might be able to do
to impact policy that will help resolve those
challenges. So the first societal challenge I
addressed was when I was a high school
student, uh, I was in Texas and the Gulf
Coast. And just like the little girl in this
picture, I was really concerned about oil
pollution in the Gulf of Mexico.
I could see it on the beach when I went in
the water, it would get in my swimsuit.
And as a high school student,
I conducted research on the use of microbial
elements to clean up that oil.
And that was like really exciting for me.
And I produced a paper.
But what I found out shortly after words was
that, you know, if you want to have impact on
society. It's not enough to produce a paper.
So just like, uh, the.
At the Raiders of the Lost Ark,
Indiana Jones went to all that effort to find
the Ark of the covenant,
and then it ended up in this big warehouse.
The same thing can happen with scientific
research, unless we take actions to get it
out there into the world.
So this came up again when I was at the White
House. And and you can see me there in the
back and I'm sort of in the red suit,
and President Obama is on the,
the right. And this is during the BP oil
spill. And I sat there in my office listening
to the folks in the office next door trying
to figure out ways to respond to this
challenge. And I thought back,
you know, that goes back to my paper just,
you know, again, we have an oil spill in the
Gulf of Mexico. What can we do about it?
What what actions can we take to have an
impact on society?
And luckily, through the years I was in DC,
including at the White House.
I was able to have an impact.
And I can say all these things change because
of my contribution and that of many other
scientists, engineers and health
professionals to society.
And but what I learned is that it doesn't
happen just with scientific and technical
evidence. It also means storytelling.
So the person on the the left who is shaking
hands with President Clinton is a guy named
Norm Augustine, a former CEO of Lockheed
Martin. I worked with him on this report
called Rising Above the Gathering Storm.
And this was a bipartisan,
bicameral effort to try to think about how
the US could be more innovative with
scientific and technical information.
And it was something where we could really
see that the parties could work together.
Uh, they passed the American Competes act.
Uh, when President Obama came into office,
he signed legislation to actually fund all
the different activities in the America
Competes act. But unfortunately,
those days are are behind us.
So although it used to be that Republicans
and had a great deal of confidence in
scientists, that's not the case.
Overall, the United States, we've seen a 10%
decrease in confidence in scientists and in
Republicans it's been 20%.
So we really need to take actions to figure
out how to get back that confidence that we
lost and began during the pandemic. But
what's of greater concern is that we're not
really getting it back.
And one way to do that is to make sure that
we answer the questions that policymakers and
the public have.
And too often, as scientists and engineers,
we focus on effectiveness,
the degree to which a societal goal is met.
We also have to think about efficiency.
What will get the best bang for the buck?
We have to think about equity, the fairness
of the policy, who are the winners,
who are the losers?
And we have to think about ease of political
acceptability. The degree to which people
will oppose or support a particular policy.
Another lesson that I learned,
and this goes back to when I was working on
The Rising Above the Gathering Storm report,
is that we need to learn that people prefer
stories. You know, you'll see here on this
chart on the right that,
yes, facts and evidence do play a role,
but stories also play a very important role.
And so for those of you who are not
scientists, engineers, but you still think
that public policy should be evidence based,
your stories, your lived experiences,
are just as important as that scientific
evidence in trying to bridge these moral and
political divides that we're facing today.
So what we need is a combination of skills
and stories and spaces.
We need skills.
So this is an example of an analysis I just
recently did for an organization called
Reimagine Appalachia, about using waste heat
from data centers to provide some sort of
community good, like perhaps a greenhouse
that could help grow food for people who lack
food, or those who are for food deserts.
Um, when I was teaching a workshop in
Virginia, a student told me about her
grandmother, who was forced to leave her home
because of PFAS in her.
Well, and we need spaces.
We need to make sure that the stories and the
analysis that we do are focused on where
people live on their communities.
And this is analysis done by one of my former
students when she was at the University of
Minnesota, uh, that, uh,
and she was concerned about tear gas that
came into where she was living,
uh, attending the University of Minnesota
during the George Floyd protest.
And we've seen this even again today,
recently with the Ice protest.
So we need those skills and stories and those
spaces where people live to really have an
impact on policy.
So to do this, I came up with this Ace
framework. It includes three elements.
The first is analysis.
The key thing that I've been doing for
decades. Getting those facts and figures.
Um, and then we want to communicate. We need
to sort of tell a story.
But just like this, we also have to do
engagement because just like this scene,
which is from Hamilton,
where he's where, um, Aaron Burr is telling
Alexander Hammer to to talk less and that he
needs to smile more, listen more.
That's something else that we also need to
do. And we need to do this in partnership
with those who have those lived experiences,
so that together, we can have an impact on
society and make the world a better place.
So if you'd like to know more about my Ace
framework and how you can get involved in all
the work that I'm doing to try to bring
scientific and technical information to bear
on societal outcomes, please connect with me
on LinkedIn and I'd be happy to tell you
more.
Carol Cox: Fantastic. Debbie.
All right. Let me. I'll leave that. All
right. We got that slide.
Wonderful. So it was.
It's been so fun to work with you as well,
Debbie, because you and Aaron are so
different in your approaches.
Your speaker archetypes,
I would say. And but you.
But I love that you bring what is authentic
to you, to your speaking,
to your messaging and to your talk.
So, Debbie, I'll start with you.
Tell me a little bit about the the speaking
that you traditionally do.
And I know we call you a presentation machine
because you do. I don't know how many virtual
presentations and workshops plus in-person
conferences that that you do.
So tell me a little bit about how you
approach putting your presentations together,
and then why you decided to come work with us
here at Speaking Your Brand.
Deborah Stine: Well, I do, I actually did a catalog last
summer and I do about 40 different workshops
and different workshop topics, so I really
cover all sorts of different things.
Analysis, community engagement.
Um, AI you know, the application of AI,
um, things about AI data centers.
So I really cover a vast array of topics.
Most of, most of the time my audience is,
um, scientists, engineers.
It can be anything from high school students
up to very senior professionals.
Uh, but it's a very but it's still sort of
the same people, people who already,
um, believe that scientific and technical
evidence should have an impact on public
policy. And this year,
I really felt that I would kind of try to
make my for 2026.
I tried to go from that workshop stage,
which I've been on for quite a while,
uh, to try to do more at,
at a, at a keynote level.
But I also realized that the same
presentation that I give for all these
workshops is not going to be the same as
that. I would give on a stage,
uh, you know, where like sometimes,
uh, as I find out I can have I can't even
have slides with me that I can point to and
talk about my four E's and all these
different things that I that I do,
which for me is a real challenge,
um, in terms of doing these things.
But if you look at like Ted Talks and South
by Southwest, I mean, it's true that, you
know, it's not rarely do you see sort of
slides. So I sort of knew I needed help.
Um, and then I came across Carol,
actually for totally other reasons,
for AI related reasons.
And then I found out that she did this work.
And I thought, you know, I think Carol can
maybe help me. And that's that's how I
started.
Carol Cox: Okay, great. We'll come back to you, Debbie,
in just a moment. Erin,
let me come to you. So we also connected last
fall and tell tell us a little bit about,
you know, where did this,
uh, you know, desire to become a speaker come
from and sharing your message of having
cystic fibrosis and this idea of training to
die and then now training to live.
Where did that come from?
That you wanted to share your message with
more audiences?
Yes and yes. Like you said,
broadening your message out.
Say not just to even people who have an
illness like cystic fibrosis or some other
type of illness, or even like,
you know, caregivers or people in the health
care industry, which I know one of your one
of the different types of audiences you can
speak to are people in health care,
but then broadening that out.
And so I remember when,
as we've been working together on your talk,
Aaron, obviously you have the personal
stories and that really is the core of your
talk and your message because it is
incredibly inspiring to people,
even if they've never been in your situation,
they can still think about this idea of
uncertainty and where it shows up for them,
but then taking the storytelling,
but then wrapping it into a framework.
Your calm framework and into that third party
credibility, the research studies and kind of
blending all of that together.
So what was the process like for you working
on your talk? I know you like you like to
write, which is great.
I'm a speaker. Clearly I'm not a writer you
like to write. So tell me a little bit about
the process and what worked well for you.
Well, and I was going to tell you on your
delivery today.
You did an incredible job at the pacing.
So for those of you who are watching and
listening, we talk about with with your
content. The content should have contrast,
right? Like you're kind of bringing the
audience up, you know,
energetically and kind of like then bringing
them down and bringing them up through your
stories and your content and so on.
The same thing applies for delivery.
Even if you're super energetic and upbeat,
if you keep that same energetic,
upbeat level the entire time,
the audience doesn't really have a chance to
like, just like, take a breath.
Neither do you, right?
And so that's like one of the things we've
been we've been encouraging all of you is to
do that vocal contrast,
find those key moments to slow down.
Right. Bring the energy down a beat.
Have those intentional pauses.
And you did it.
I can tell. And you did.
And because you have such great energy.
Naturally. And I saw this when you were at
our one day workshop here in Orlando last
week. You have incredible energy. But then
just doing that contrast,
then when your energy comes back up,
the audience tunes in even more and the same
thing when like, and this is for any speaker,
you slow down and you pause and then the
audience also leans back in.
So I love that.
All right, Debbie, let's come back to you.
So you and Aaron and the and the other three
women who will be on the LinkedIn live with
Diane next week have been with us and our
thought leader Academy for it will be eight
weeks as of next week,
your graduation. So tell me a little bit
about what that experience has been like for
you. Because we do the one on one VIP day
where we map out your talk,
but then we have these small group weekly
calls to dive into other topics.
What has been the value for you there?
Deborah Stine: Yeah. I think for me, the hardest part,
uh, sort of like Aaron is trying to get down
to, like, my core message,
you know, like, this was ten minutes, but I
have to do this again in a week.
In five minutes. Right?
And, you know, that's really tough.
You know, for somebody, particularly for
somebody like me who, you know,
was a former academic and a policy where you
used to have like an hour to talk,
uh, it's really, really tough to get your
core message down. So,
um, I think that the what was useful for me
was, you know, the session where we went with
your big board, you know,
with, you know, kind of like the kind of
introduction or like act one,
act two, act three, all that other aspect of
it. And then that was still kind of like the
first time I did that.
Um, not long after that,
it was still pretty long.
Uh, and then it's ever since then,
I've been just trying to winnow it down
further and further and further.
This is the closest I've gotten.
I don't know what it was, you know,
just now, but when I was,
you know, doing my practice runs and tying
myself, I got myself down to eight minutes,
which for me is amazing to get down to eight
minutes, because just a couple days ago I was
like at, you know, like much longer than
that. So, um, so I think,
I think that is really helpful.
And then the other aspect,
I think that you added and I guess this is
maybe even the day after we did it,
is you added those three S's,
you know, the, the, the spaces and things
like that, which, which I thought was helpful
in bringing together some of some of the
aspects that I was interested in.
Like I was focused much more because I'm an
analyst on my Ace framework,
which is analysis, and I thought that would
be the focus of what I was doing.
But you basically said, okay, no, that's more
the endpoint as opposed to the beginning
point. And that was a change for me because
again, I have been for decades teaching
workshops, classes, everything on how to do
policy analysis and how to communicate those
analyses. But I really wanted to get to that
engagement point.
And, um, I think you can just see and this is
why I think Aaron and I pair well,
so well together is.
Yes, you need an analyst like me.
You need those researchers who do the
research, but you also need people like Erin
to tell the story, because believe me,
they're going to remember Erin a heck a lot
more than they can remember me.
I mean, even the people on this podcast,
they're going to remember Erin's story more.
Erin Mark: Because opposites attract.
We need you. Yes.
Deborah Stine: Yes, we we need both of us.
We need a partnership to kind of have an
impact on society.
And, you know, we're just having our impacts
in different, different ways.
Um, so, um, I think that that to me was
something that really helped helped because
I'm used to doing stories, right. I'm used to
writing reports with beginning and middles
and ends, but, uh, I have always done it for
my workshop presentations.
It's more of steps, you know,
like one steps, one through ten versus more
of a story.
Carol Cox: Yes. Well, I'm glad you brought up the three
S's. Now I'm a sucker for alliterations.
I will if you know whether it's an acronym
like Erin has with Calm,
if that. You know, if I can't think of an
acronym, you already had an acronym,
Debbie with Ace, which I figured was good for
act three for the call to action for the for
your audience. But I really wanted in that
act to to think about you sharing with an
audience on a keynote stage.
Right. Not a workshop training,
not your traditional presentations that you
are already excellent at.
But how can we broaden out your message?
And that's where I thought of the the skills,
the stories and the spaces.
And again, I like alliteration because then I
remember it, which I just did,
which otherwise I probably would not have
remembered it. Yeah.
So because I really imagine you,
Debbie, because of the,
the background, you have the Obama White
House, National Science Foundation, all of
these incredible positions you've had and the
impact that you have, I think a lot of people
can learn from you, not only the scientists
and the researchers and the people who are
already in those fields.
But I think a lot of other people,
whether it's healthcare or nurses or just,
you know, people who do have some type of
expertise but don't think of themselves as
connected to having an impact on policy.
But to your I know your message is,
but we need them, right?
You know, to whether it's writing op eds,
engaging with their local community,
state legislatures, etc.,
so that these positive changes are more
likely to happen.
Deborah Stine: Yeah. And I think that's really the case. You
know, it's one thing for me as an analyst to
present their story, but I will never be as
strong a voice as, you know, I'm based in
Pittsburgh, you know, and for those of you
who watch Pitt, you know,
the, you know, the Pitt, which is with no
Wiley. You know, they had you know,
they definitely have doctors and nurses,
you know, from Pittsburgh who said,
hey, this is real life.
Like what's on that show is really what we
experience. Well, that obviously means a lot
more to people than anything.
I would say. Any data I would give about all
the challenges that are faced by emergency
departments in Pittsburgh,
public hospitals. Right.
Um, so I really think it's important to kind
of broaden that message.
And like I said, that's the reason I wanted
to do this, is to try to go beyond,
you know, my core audience who already know
me. And, you know, I know maybe they're tired
of me at this point, but but,
but to reach others because ultimately,
you know, my life goal is to have an impact
on society with evidence based knowledge,
whatever that knowledge you know,
might be. And to to realize,
um, that though we as scientists,
engineers, we have to be humble enough to
recognize that what we say is not enough to
really impact action, impact society.
Uh, and that's, I think, a very important
message for us to understand.
And then for also those who have stories to
know that we need them,
you know, because oftentimes people will say,
oh, but I don't know, science or I don't
know, it doesn't really make any difference.
What's important is that you tell your story
so that you can show that,
yes, you know, this is an important issue to
address. Or like in Aaron's case,
you know, like there's been a lot of cuts to
research funding, for example,
to show that. Yes. Just because,
you know, we had federal research funding, it
created this drug which ended up saving her
life. Right.
And we've really had for the past year or so,
really had to get across that message.
Um, and before, I think as a community,
we took that for granted and we could no
longer take for granted that people
understand the power that science and
technology can bring to people's lives.
Erin Mark: Uh, Debbie, are we are we collaborating for
a. I think what's next is Debbie and I are
going on tour for.
Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes.
I didn't mean to interrupt. Sorry. I was
like, Debbie, what are we doing here? What
are we doing? Let's get together.
Yes. Bring with us, Diane.
Hop on. All right.
Go ahead. Sorry, Carol. I got so excited.
Carol Cox: No, we're going to Tahiti.
We gotta find a speaking engagement.
Erin Mark: Yes.
Deborah Stine: You know, I you know, I kept wondering,
Aaron, actually. Did you ever make it to
Tahiti? I've actually been to Haiti, and it's
very lovely. Did you ever go?
Erin Mark: I have never made it to Tahiti yet.
Okay.
Deborah Stine: Okay, well, we gotta solve this problem.
We need to book a speaking gig in Tahiti.
Erin Mark: Right? If anybody is listening,
hire me for your off site Tahiti for
corporate. Debbie and I will come.
Carol's going to come.
We're in. Yes.
Carol Cox: Make Erin's wish come true.
Deborah Stine: Right.
Erin Mark: The adult Make-A-Wish.
Right. Like. Yeah, I survived,
right? I remember, by the way,
Cinderella, this beautiful blonde would save
me a seat every day at breakfast because I
was obsessed with her. I was not obsessed
with Mickey, but the Cinderella I warmed up
to. She was near a palm tree,
and I thought to myself,
if she only knew that I made it right.
That I survived because at the time,
right? She probably didn't think so.
Me? I gotta find her.
So, Cinderella, if you're watching,
I made it. I made it, Cindy.
And I'm going to Tahiti eventually.
Carol Cox: Oh, we're gonna get you there soon.
All right. Erin. So that was my next question
is, what's next for you?
Erin Mark: Yeah, yeah. Besides Tahiti,
what's next for me is keynotes and being able
to impact as many people as possible and
really firing up this business of mine and
really just taking it to the next level.
I'm looking to really expand into just
healthcare, more conferences,
associations, but corporates really any
industry is going through change,
which is very broad, right?
But partnering right with HR teams to come in
and to help also motivate their employees.
Talking about realistic Resilience.
Not this forced optimism.
Right. Because I think we have so much going
on in both our professional lives and our
work lives and in our personal lives.
So we need a way to stay calm as much as
possible, to keep moving forward and to make
a better life for all of us.
You don't need a crisis to change everything
in your life. You don't have to have a
terminal illness like I did,
right? It's just these small changes that can
really set you up for success professionally
and personally.
Carol Cox: You know, Erin, I was actually was just last
week because I know your framework and I know
your talk since we've been working together.
And there was there was something I was like
sitting on the sofa and getting ready to,
you know, watch something on TV for the night
to like, you know, like,
relax and you're calm.
Framework popped into my head for some
reason. Maybe I had been watching the news.
I don't know, I probably was it.
And then I actually went through it.
I'm like, okay, what can I control?
Adapt. Lean on others,
you know, move forward and I remembered it.
And so I think that is the power of combining
a framework with a story for a talk,
for an audience, because I think they will
walk away remembering it,
and then they'll start putting it into
practice. Because as speakers,
sure, we want to, you know,
entertain the audience while we're on stage,
you know, inspire them,
make them feel good, have them think
differently for that 30 minutes or 45 minutes
or an hour that we're with them,
but we want them to be able to take what they
heard from us and carry it forward and
remember it. And so I think they'll remember
your story and they'll you'll remember your
framework. And, Debbie,
same with you. So what's next for you?
I know you also have some speaking
engagements coming up.
Deborah Stine: Um, yeah. So I'm sort of like building up
again for my goal of 2026,
which is to move to more of a keynote,
um, stage, uh, where I'll be next week is
actually with Dorie Clark,
who you've had, I know on your podcast,
Carol and and her interview was really very
useful. And so my my challenge I think that I
have next is to figure out,
um, the uh, kind of how to market this enough
to get to the right audience because in my
world, you know, you know, a lot of people
speak for free.
And I would certainly love to speak for free.
But the reality is, is I cannot afford to
speak for free. And so I need to figure out
some way to to still get across my message
and find audiences who are interested in
inspiring their audiences.
You know, with what it is that my message is,
uh, in terms of what it is that I have to
say. So that I think is my big next,
uh, step. So I'm doing that next week and
then the like, I know,
two weeks after that, uh,
here in Pittsburgh, I'm,
I'm doing a, uh, speakers,
uh, with the National Speakers Association.
I'm doing another event also.
Again, I have to do this in,
like five minutes, uh,
to get a recording to Again to be able to use
that for for marketing.
So I still have a lot of like workshops and
things booked.
I haven't really tried yet to book.
Um, like to find the right thing for the
keynote? Um, because I think it's going to
take some thought. And I'm hoping after this
strategy session I have next week,
plus all the stuff I've learned from you,
Carol, um, that I can figure out,
you know, who might be interested in the
message that I have that I can make,
maybe make the pitch to.
And I feel that it's definitely possible
because I've done this in the past, like at
NIH, they didn't at one point.
They didn't have any classes that were on
policy or things like that,
and I pitched it to them,
I don't know, maybe ten years ago now.
Um, and, you know, then I started out with
one like, you know, class,
and then I went to, like, five,
right? Uh, so I found that if I could just
find one, like, niche.
Niche, you know, that I can.
It will make sense to me, but I'm just not
quite sure what that is yet.
So I'm going to rely on you and others to try
to help me figure out it from a marketing
perspective, what that is,
I don't feel very comfortable yet again with
that keynote style of,
uh, of marketing.
Carol Cox: Okay, well, we are here for you,
Debbie. And like I told you,
I think because of your background, your
credibility, your message,
your storytelling ability,
you are right for the keynote stage.
A lot of it is relationship building.
And even going back to the conferences you've
spoken at in the past,
even if you, you know,
even if you weren't paid at the time or,
you know, you were a breakout session and
pitching them as the keynote speaker for
their next, the next event,
whatever that it could be next year, you
know, because they book far in advance a lot
of the times it's you would be surprised that
we have to let them know that,
hey, like, I'm could be this like I could be
your keynote speaker because they don't
necessarily put two and two together and it
can feel very like, uh,
intimidating to do it because you're,
you know, and I'm speaking for me and
probably for a lot of listeners, if you're a
rejection, like, maybe they just don't reply.
What are they going to think about me?
But I would just say, like,
Debbie, you are so qualified to be on those
keynote stages. Audiences need to hear your
message. So as a public service to your
audiences, you should start pitching
yourself.
Deborah Stine: Yes, yes I will, and I just I just need to
figure out how how best to do it.
But yeah, I mean like and again, I'm
passionate about my message.
My entire career has been focused,
you know, like that was to not because
originally I could have just been a
researcher, but to try to have an impact on
society. And I've been able to have that,
you know, working for all the different
places that I've worked.
And so I really feel I can still carry that
message. I just, I just need to figure out
how best to do it.
Carol Cox: All right. Well, you're in the right place.
All right. So everyone who was watching and
listening Make sure to connect with Debbie
and Erin on LinkedIn.
Obviously, if you're watching on LinkedIn,
you can see them as the speakers and you can
connect with them there. If you're listening
to this on the podcast,
check the show notes for the links to their
LinkedIn profiles.
Also for their websites.
You can find Erin at Erinmark.com that's e r
i n m a r k . Com and you can find Debbie's
website at scitechpolicyacademy.com.
Again, links will be in the show notes.
And if you would like to join us in the
Thought Leader Academy to develop your
thought leadership message, your signature
talk, learn the business of speaking and be
around an amazing group of other women
speakers and women leaders.
You can get all the details and apply
speaking your brand. Com Academy again,
that's speaking your brand academy.
And until next time, thanks for listening.