1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,390 < Intro > 2 00:00:06,390 --> 00:00:07,700 - Welcome back to Count Me In. 3 00:00:07,700 --> 00:00:09,700 I'm Adam Larson from IMA, 4 00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:11,129 or the Institute of Management Accountants, 5 00:00:11,129 --> 00:00:13,167 for those of us joining us for the first time. 6 00:00:13,167 --> 00:00:16,890 I'm excited to welcome back, Michael Teape, to the podcast. 7 00:00:16,890 --> 00:00:21,029 Michael is a seasoned management coach 8 00:00:21,029 --> 00:00:24,334 and the co-founder and president of Teape Training International. 9 00:00:24,334 --> 00:00:26,210 Today, we discuss the tips for leaders 10 00:00:26,210 --> 00:00:27,590 in the face of constant disruption 11 00:00:27,590 --> 00:00:29,334 to business as usual. 12 00:00:29,334 --> 00:00:30,910 With Covid, inflation, 13 00:00:30,910 --> 00:00:33,667 supply chain issues, technology changes, 14 00:00:33,667 --> 00:00:35,930 leaders need to stop bracing for the next curve ball, 15 00:00:35,930 --> 00:00:37,760 and instead look for ways they can adapt 16 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,430 to find new paths to success. 17 00:00:39,430 --> 00:00:41,500 It was great to get Michael's insight and optimism 18 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:43,300 on this important topic. 19 00:00:43,300 --> 00:00:45,000 Let's get the conversation started. 20 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:51,333 < Music > 21 00:00:51,333 --> 00:00:52,710 Michael, thank you so much 22 00:00:52,710 --> 00:00:54,239 for coming back to Count Me In. 23 00:00:54,239 --> 00:00:56,390 We've talked about being more productive at work 24 00:00:56,390 --> 00:00:59,167 and maximizing our human capital management, 25 00:00:59,167 --> 00:01:00,129 in the past with you. 26 00:01:00,129 --> 00:01:04,500 But today we're going to focus in on the disrupted leader. 27 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:05,820 And I figured we can start off 28 00:01:05,820 --> 00:01:08,939 by what do we mean by the disrupted leader, 29 00:01:08,939 --> 00:01:12,290 and how are leaders being disrupted? 30 00:01:12,290 --> 00:01:15,000 - I think it's easier to say, 31 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,167 "How are they not being disrupted?" 32 00:01:17,167 --> 00:01:21,720 Because, I think, when you're a leader in your organization 33 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,833 and everyone thinks about what's going on? 34 00:01:23,833 --> 00:01:26,290 What are the challenges right now? 35 00:01:26,290 --> 00:01:27,460 There's some common themes 36 00:01:27,460 --> 00:01:29,790 that are only getting quicker, 37 00:01:29,790 --> 00:01:32,060 faster, more challenging. 38 00:01:32,060 --> 00:01:35,630 So you can think of climate change. 39 00:01:35,630 --> 00:01:40,520 Climate change has a huge impact on how we work? 40 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,110 Where we work? 41 00:01:43,110 --> 00:01:46,666 All of those, and safety elements of that as well. 42 00:01:46,666 --> 00:01:51,180 Social change; the diversity of the people we work with now, 43 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:53,350 that's been being disrupted. 44 00:01:53,350 --> 00:01:57,490 We're not all in the office in one place, 45 00:01:57,490 --> 00:02:00,090 that's another part of social change as well. 46 00:02:00,090 --> 00:02:03,130 Covid-19, I mean, hello? 47 00:02:03,130 --> 00:02:07,340 Last three years, it's been a real challenge. 48 00:02:07,340 --> 00:02:08,490 And that's one of the biggest ones 49 00:02:08,490 --> 00:02:12,190 because it was an unknown challenge. 50 00:02:12,190 --> 00:02:16,499 The others climate, social, and the last one, technology. 51 00:02:16,499 --> 00:02:17,720 The technology revolution, 52 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,833 what they call the fourth industrial revolution, 53 00:02:20,833 --> 00:02:25,333 are the four key areas I see right now, and there'll be more 54 00:02:25,333 --> 00:02:27,499 There'll be more things that come along, 55 00:02:27,499 --> 00:02:30,833 let alone the small challenges of running a business. 56 00:02:30,833 --> 00:02:34,666 Issues with clients, lack of clients, too many clients, 57 00:02:34,819 --> 00:02:37,166 things not going well with clients, 58 00:02:37,166 --> 00:02:39,019 disruption on so many levels. 59 00:02:39,019 --> 00:02:42,333 So now we've cheered your audience up. 60 00:02:42,333 --> 00:02:46,999 And, so, it is not an easy place, 61 00:02:46,999 --> 00:02:51,300 it's more about how we react to it, 62 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:53,310 and technology is one of the biggest ones. 63 00:02:53,310 --> 00:02:55,739 That fourth industrial revolution 64 00:02:55,739 --> 00:02:58,060 talking about the technology revolution. 65 00:02:58,060 --> 00:03:00,209 It's that people are coming up 66 00:03:00,209 --> 00:03:04,220 with intuitive ways of breaking our systems 67 00:03:04,220 --> 00:03:05,379 and doing things differently. 68 00:03:05,379 --> 00:03:06,960 If you have an organization 69 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,780 that's run on mainframe systems, spreadsheets, 70 00:03:10,780 --> 00:03:14,832 there are so much things available to skip all of that 71 00:03:14,832 --> 00:03:18,499 Fintech, the financial technologies 72 00:03:18,569 --> 00:03:21,166 that really don't have any of those 73 00:03:21,166 --> 00:03:23,832 and are just very simply making connections. 74 00:03:23,832 --> 00:03:25,832 using the technology in front of them quicker, 75 00:03:25,832 --> 00:03:29,640 faster, cheaper, that's a huge part 76 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:30,666 that's going on as well. 77 00:03:30,666 --> 00:03:35,069 So, yes, where are they not being disrupted, Adam? 78 00:03:35,069 --> 00:03:37,166 - Exactly, I think, you hit it on the nose, 79 00:03:37,166 --> 00:03:40,020 there's so much disruption happening all over. 80 00:03:40,020 --> 00:03:42,569 But when you're thinking about, as a leader yourself, 81 00:03:42,569 --> 00:03:43,610 if I'm thinking about my team 82 00:03:43,610 --> 00:03:44,939 and how I act with my team. 83 00:03:44,939 --> 00:03:47,332 Yes, there's so many outside disruptions. 84 00:03:47,332 --> 00:03:48,990 What does it look like, for me, 85 00:03:48,990 --> 00:03:52,189 if I want to look upon myself and how am I being disrupted? 86 00:03:52,189 --> 00:03:54,430 And what does a disrupted one look like? 87 00:03:54,430 --> 00:03:57,999 Because you don't want to stay there, obviously. 88 00:03:57,999 --> 00:04:01,450 - No, it's a stressful place to be, being disrupted, 89 00:04:01,450 --> 00:04:02,739 you're playing defense, 90 00:04:02,739 --> 00:04:07,499 you're frustrated that things aren't working, which causes stress. 91 00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:11,079 Which also limits our vision and our focus. 92 00:04:11,079 --> 00:04:14,999 A lot of being creative and getting ourselves out of these issues, 93 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,910 by thinking of new things that we could do 94 00:04:17,910 --> 00:04:20,165 to face a challenge and move forward. 95 00:04:20,165 --> 00:04:26,350 So, yes, that looks like, and I'll say this, Adam, 96 00:04:26,350 --> 00:04:29,832 a lot of the time we don't realize we're in this space. 97 00:04:29,860 --> 00:04:31,370 Call it the disruptive leader, 98 00:04:31,370 --> 00:04:34,165 we don't know that we're acting in a certain way 99 00:04:34,165 --> 00:04:36,332 because we're under stress. 100 00:04:36,332 --> 00:04:38,498 We've got our blinkers on, 101 00:04:38,498 --> 00:04:41,165 like, "My business is not making money. 102 00:04:41,165 --> 00:04:42,770 How are we going to make some money?" 103 00:04:42,770 --> 00:04:46,665 And being stressful, following up on one particular client 104 00:04:46,665 --> 00:04:48,998 who's never going to give you the money 105 00:04:48,998 --> 00:04:51,490 is a blinkered approach. 106 00:04:51,490 --> 00:04:53,165 You need to be looking at, 107 00:04:53,165 --> 00:04:56,332 "Well, what could I do to create another million dollars?" 108 00:04:56,332 --> 00:04:59,970 Depending on the size of your organization; 50, 100, million. 109 00:04:59,970 --> 00:05:01,620 "What could I be doing?" 110 00:05:01,620 --> 00:05:04,700 So they're disrupted, they're blind to the problem, really. 111 00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:07,190 And what I mean by that is that 112 00:05:07,190 --> 00:05:11,165 they're focused on the minute, the tactical, 113 00:05:11,165 --> 00:05:13,665 trying to get the number of accounts, 114 00:05:13,665 --> 00:05:16,665 trying to charge more per client. 115 00:05:16,665 --> 00:05:18,165 When really the problem is maybe 116 00:05:18,165 --> 00:05:20,998 what I'm offering the client is not what they're looking for. 117 00:05:20,998 --> 00:05:22,819 Have you ever thought about that? 118 00:05:22,819 --> 00:05:24,570 And that would be a curious mindset. 119 00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:27,530 So being blind to the problem 120 00:05:27,530 --> 00:05:31,331 is all about losing your focus, overall, 121 00:05:31,331 --> 00:05:33,850 and focusing on the minutiae and doing... 122 00:05:33,850 --> 00:05:35,260 Have you ever heard that adage, 123 00:05:35,260 --> 00:05:36,870 "If you're ever doing the same thing 124 00:05:36,870 --> 00:05:38,831 and expecting a different result, 125 00:05:38,831 --> 00:05:40,498 that's a definition of insanity." 126 00:05:40,498 --> 00:05:44,199 I love that term, that phrase. 127 00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:45,620 So that's where someone would be stuck, 128 00:05:45,620 --> 00:05:47,800 that would be one of them. 129 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:48,830 And that links into the other one 130 00:05:48,830 --> 00:05:54,331 is having no direction, no purpose, 131 00:05:54,331 --> 00:05:56,998 and what I mean is that; where are we going? 132 00:05:56,998 --> 00:05:58,650 Where do I want to go? 133 00:05:58,650 --> 00:06:01,164 And I think I shared on our last podcast, 134 00:06:01,164 --> 00:06:03,450 a little bit, I'll have to go back 135 00:06:03,450 --> 00:06:04,450 and have a little look at it, 136 00:06:04,450 --> 00:06:06,998 maybe your listeners would do as well. 137 00:06:06,998 --> 00:06:10,180 Is that I was working with a client 138 00:06:10,180 --> 00:06:12,331 who was totally disrupted by Covid. 139 00:06:12,331 --> 00:06:14,790 They were a Fintech. 140 00:06:14,790 --> 00:06:17,539 They were 30% growth they were aiming at 141 00:06:17,539 --> 00:06:19,190 and it just disappeared overnight. 142 00:06:19,190 --> 00:06:23,190 Because people didn't need to manage cash flow 143 00:06:23,190 --> 00:06:25,331 because they weren't out spending cash. 144 00:06:25,331 --> 00:06:28,710 And, so, the flow was very different 145 00:06:28,710 --> 00:06:30,780 and it wasn't where their market was. 146 00:06:30,780 --> 00:06:34,450 But instead of panicking this person found the purpose. 147 00:06:34,450 --> 00:06:36,650 Well, her purpose was to take over the world 148 00:06:36,650 --> 00:06:38,831 and help the cash management globally, 149 00:06:38,831 --> 00:06:41,669 however, that's not possible right now. 150 00:06:41,669 --> 00:06:44,360 So I believe it's coming back 151 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,349 but let's focus on rebuilding what we have. 152 00:06:47,349 --> 00:06:51,330 The mergers, the acquisitions, being more efficient. 153 00:06:51,330 --> 00:06:53,070 Let's focus on fixing what we have, 154 00:06:53,070 --> 00:06:55,389 and we have a dream time right now. 155 00:06:55,389 --> 00:06:57,080 Let's not think of it as, "Oh, my goodness, 156 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,350 we're not going to grow this year." 157 00:06:58,350 --> 00:06:59,960 We've already made revenue, 158 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:02,490 so let's take the panic off the table. 159 00:07:02,490 --> 00:07:04,050 But wouldn't it be great if we had the time 160 00:07:04,050 --> 00:07:06,819 to fix all the efficiencies and the mergers, now? 161 00:07:06,819 --> 00:07:07,819 Well, guess what, 162 00:07:07,819 --> 00:07:11,099 they have and they got excited about that and moved forward. 163 00:07:11,099 --> 00:07:14,164 So that's someone who's found purpose 164 00:07:14,164 --> 00:07:18,090 in the disruption that's happening around them. 165 00:07:18,090 --> 00:07:20,230 What they could have done, 166 00:07:20,230 --> 00:07:21,680 not having purpose, is knuckle down, 167 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,330 and, "Well, we need to get more accounts. 168 00:07:23,330 --> 00:07:27,497 Go sell, go meet everyone in the industry, sell." 169 00:07:27,497 --> 00:07:29,240 But you're not going to sell something 170 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,664 that people don't need right now. 171 00:07:31,664 --> 00:07:33,330 So you're banging your head on a brick wall. 172 00:07:33,330 --> 00:07:35,164 So I'm talking about banging your head on a brick wall, 173 00:07:35,164 --> 00:07:36,960 not thinking about what you're trying 174 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,460 to achieve, overall adjusting. 175 00:07:40,460 --> 00:07:42,840 And that leads me onto the third one, 176 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:48,164 which is, do you have a psychologically safe environment or not? 177 00:07:48,164 --> 00:07:55,164 So if you're under stress, Adam, employees, that work for you, 178 00:07:55,164 --> 00:07:56,379 are going to feel the stress 179 00:07:56,379 --> 00:08:00,163 in the way you talk to them, not making it safe, shouting. 180 00:08:00,163 --> 00:08:03,340 Blaming people, "Well, why didn't you make the sales? 181 00:08:03,340 --> 00:08:05,919 I asked you to go and get some more sales." 182 00:08:05,919 --> 00:08:07,050 And that leads me, really, 183 00:08:07,050 --> 00:08:08,870 nicely into the next session 184 00:08:08,870 --> 00:08:13,720 of not allowing people to express their ideas, 185 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,663 and thoughts, and fail, 186 00:08:15,663 --> 00:08:17,860 and not a safe environment. 187 00:08:17,860 --> 00:08:20,389 If we are too busy pushing our employees to go out 188 00:08:20,389 --> 00:08:23,680 and sell something that isn't possible, 189 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,949 or make something better in the disrupted environment. 190 00:08:27,949 --> 00:08:29,210 We don't have the clients right now, 191 00:08:29,210 --> 00:08:30,663 they don't want what we offer. 192 00:08:30,663 --> 00:08:32,997 There's no use shouting or blaming them, 193 00:08:32,997 --> 00:08:36,800 and that is really when a leader is under stress, 194 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,200 that's where they're coming from. 195 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:39,663 They're blaming others. 196 00:08:39,663 --> 00:08:40,997 When really you should be like, 197 00:08:40,997 --> 00:08:44,330 "Well, where does the blame actually really sit?" 198 00:08:44,330 --> 00:08:47,330 Is it with the person you told to do 199 00:08:47,330 --> 00:08:51,496 an impossible objective and they're not bringing back a result? 200 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,496 Or is it with the person who sent them on this mission? 201 00:08:54,496 --> 00:08:57,496 On a mission that they're never going to achieve? 202 00:08:57,496 --> 00:09:00,163 So let's think of it in that way. 203 00:09:00,163 --> 00:09:03,330 But what we do is we lash out, we complain. 204 00:09:03,330 --> 00:09:06,830 We get frustrated at people that don't bring us results. 205 00:09:06,830 --> 00:09:07,680 But they can't bring us results 206 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:10,890 if they're not focused on what's going to work. 207 00:09:10,890 --> 00:09:12,490 So that's a huge piece; 208 00:09:12,490 --> 00:09:16,370 is you're not going to get people thinking differently, 209 00:09:16,370 --> 00:09:18,850 helping us get us out of a challenge, 210 00:09:18,850 --> 00:09:20,320 by shouting at them. 211 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,880 You need to create what's called a psychologically-safe environment. 212 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,310 And then the last thing a disrupted leader would be is, 213 00:09:27,310 --> 00:09:28,940 "I need to build something new." 214 00:09:28,940 --> 00:09:32,230 Or, "I need to rebuild this product, 215 00:09:32,230 --> 00:09:34,910 and I'll spend a lot of time working on that 216 00:09:34,910 --> 00:09:38,496 and releasing something perfect." 217 00:09:38,496 --> 00:09:40,070 But the problem with that is that 218 00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:41,720 by the time they've done that, the world's moved on. 219 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,760 the world's moved on. 220 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,240 So I feel as though they can't really balance 221 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,640 execution with innovation. 222 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,030 It's like, "Well, we've had some great ideas, 223 00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:53,390 but I just can't get it executed." 224 00:09:53,390 --> 00:09:54,440 And that's a fact. 225 00:09:54,440 --> 00:10:00,163 So blind to the problem, it's as denial really. 226 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,163 Not focusing on the purpose and direction, 227 00:10:02,163 --> 00:10:04,650 focusing on the day-to-day. 228 00:10:04,650 --> 00:10:07,089 How you talk to employees. 229 00:10:07,089 --> 00:10:11,399 So that psychological-safe environment, being blunt, 230 00:10:11,399 --> 00:10:13,170 and blaming others is not going to help. 231 00:10:13,170 --> 00:10:15,370 And, lastly, is spending too long 232 00:10:15,370 --> 00:10:18,290 executing something and releasing, 233 00:10:18,290 --> 00:10:20,560 what you think the environment wants. 234 00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:21,810 When really you need to be checking 235 00:10:21,810 --> 00:10:23,730 in a lot quicker on that. 236 00:10:23,730 --> 00:10:26,170 So they're really the four areas 237 00:10:26,170 --> 00:10:28,162 where leaders get disrupted. 238 00:10:28,162 --> 00:10:31,790 And I'm sure your listeners can feel the pressure 239 00:10:31,790 --> 00:10:35,662 in one or a multitude of those. 240 00:10:35,662 --> 00:10:37,662 - Yes, I'm sure many can relate, especially, 241 00:10:37,662 --> 00:10:39,030 with what everybody's gone through 242 00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:40,662 in the last three years, with Covid. 243 00:10:40,662 --> 00:10:42,399 But the other examples you gave 244 00:10:42,399 --> 00:10:45,162 have been going on for longer than that. 245 00:10:45,162 --> 00:10:46,959 I wanted to shift the conversation 246 00:10:46,959 --> 00:10:48,329 to the other side of it. 247 00:10:48,329 --> 00:10:50,060 We've talked about disrupted, 248 00:10:50,060 --> 00:10:52,162 and there's something else that you and I were discussing 249 00:10:52,162 --> 00:10:54,820 is the disruptor or the disruptor leader. 250 00:10:54,820 --> 00:10:56,700 Can we talk about what that means, 251 00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:59,300 as an opposite, I guess? 252 00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:03,079 - Sure, yes, so if you are disrupted, 253 00:11:03,079 --> 00:11:06,760 that usually means you're in a psychologically unsafe place, 254 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,329 you're in an away state. 255 00:11:08,329 --> 00:11:11,329 You're blaming others, you're frustrated, 256 00:11:11,329 --> 00:11:15,162 you're worried about loss, losing something, 257 00:11:15,162 --> 00:11:17,662 and you're on the defensive. 258 00:11:17,662 --> 00:11:20,660 None of this is going to be useful 259 00:11:20,660 --> 00:11:22,495 when you're facing a challenge 260 00:11:22,495 --> 00:11:27,162 or your business is facing a challenge or challenges, 261 00:11:27,162 --> 00:11:30,995 in helping you getting unstuck and moving forward. 262 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,190 And then the opposite of disruptive 263 00:11:32,190 --> 00:11:33,899 is to be a disruptor. 264 00:11:33,899 --> 00:11:37,495 And that's someone who's more forward-thinking, curious. 265 00:11:37,495 --> 00:11:40,162 Like, "Oh, this is interesting, this is different. 266 00:11:40,162 --> 00:11:42,828 This feels totally different; we've never had this before. 267 00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:43,940 What's causing this?" 268 00:11:43,940 --> 00:11:46,662 Or, "What are our clients really looking for? 269 00:11:46,662 --> 00:11:50,495 What support do they want from us and our team?" 270 00:11:50,495 --> 00:11:54,662 And that's an open way of looking at the environment, 271 00:11:54,662 --> 00:12:00,162 it's a growth mindset, really, not a fixed mindset. 272 00:12:00,162 --> 00:12:03,029 Looking at the environment, being open, humble, 273 00:12:03,029 --> 00:12:04,970 hungry to learn what's really going on. 274 00:12:04,970 --> 00:12:07,162 Going and talking to people, 275 00:12:07,162 --> 00:12:10,180 listening to what people have to say in podcasts, 276 00:12:10,180 --> 00:12:13,769 and reading the latest of where the industry 277 00:12:13,769 --> 00:12:17,162 might be going based on what's happening right now. 278 00:12:17,162 --> 00:12:21,162 So that opens it up, that allows you to see the landscape 279 00:12:21,162 --> 00:12:24,029 in order to find your place in it. 280 00:12:24,029 --> 00:12:25,070 So that would be the first thing, 281 00:12:25,070 --> 00:12:26,860 rather than being blind to the problem. 282 00:12:26,860 --> 00:12:28,161 And then I talked about purpose. 283 00:12:28,161 --> 00:12:31,495 So people say, "Yes, I know my purpose." 284 00:12:31,495 --> 00:12:33,161 But do they? 285 00:12:33,161 --> 00:12:34,495 They know that their purpose 286 00:12:34,495 --> 00:12:38,161 is to get the reports in for a client, 287 00:12:38,161 --> 00:12:41,040 management accounting, there are certain tactical things. 288 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,269 But what's my purpose overall? 289 00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:45,610 Is my purpose to stay in business? 290 00:12:45,610 --> 00:12:49,550 That's more reactionary and proactive. 291 00:12:49,550 --> 00:12:51,828 So I encourage leaders, if you want to get unstuck 292 00:12:51,828 --> 00:12:55,328 is ask, "Well, what do I want to do for my clients?" 293 00:12:55,328 --> 00:12:57,440 "What do I want to do for my profession?" 294 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,995 And it helps open us up a little bit. 295 00:13:00,995 --> 00:13:02,200 "Yes, I want to achieve that. 296 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,495 How else could I achieve that?" 297 00:13:04,495 --> 00:13:06,000 There's a client that I work for 298 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,830 in the insurance industry. 299 00:13:07,830 --> 00:13:10,580 Very specific and very good at what they do, 300 00:13:10,580 --> 00:13:12,850 and a very specific market. 301 00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:16,050 But they're reaching saturation point, 302 00:13:16,050 --> 00:13:17,970 so really that's a challenge. 303 00:13:17,970 --> 00:13:20,190 It's none of the industrial challenges 304 00:13:20,190 --> 00:13:22,161 I talked about, although, it will be 305 00:13:22,161 --> 00:13:24,420 when they have to update the systems. 306 00:13:24,420 --> 00:13:27,829 But they are looking at different ways 307 00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:32,494 of helping their clients, and they're offering training 308 00:13:32,494 --> 00:13:37,328 for their specific housing associations that they support. 309 00:13:37,328 --> 00:13:39,494 Training on how to be effective, 310 00:13:39,494 --> 00:13:42,494 how to mitigate their losses. 311 00:13:42,494 --> 00:13:45,480 How to less the insurance claims. 312 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,970 So they've gone into this whole different submarket 313 00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:49,220 that there's a need. 314 00:13:49,220 --> 00:13:52,199 Thousands of their clients are signing up 315 00:13:52,199 --> 00:13:54,339 to listen to training courses 316 00:13:54,339 --> 00:13:57,259 on a subscription basis for them. 317 00:13:57,259 --> 00:14:01,029 I mean, it's genius but it came from wanting 318 00:14:01,029 --> 00:14:03,494 to serve your clients, helping them. 319 00:14:03,494 --> 00:14:06,000 "What challenges do my clients face?" 320 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,994 It didn't come from, "I need to sell more insurance policies." 321 00:14:09,994 --> 00:14:12,327 So that's a big area. 322 00:14:12,327 --> 00:14:16,060 And the last two is if you want 323 00:14:16,060 --> 00:14:19,327 people to be creative, it's got to be okay for people 324 00:14:19,327 --> 00:14:21,827 to come up with ideas that don't work. 325 00:14:21,827 --> 00:14:24,140 It's they've got to be... but that, then, 326 00:14:24,140 --> 00:14:28,709 leads me to the last one is let's be quick to fail. 327 00:14:28,709 --> 00:14:30,827 "Let's try something real quick. 328 00:14:30,827 --> 00:14:33,494 Let's keep it in a two-week turnaround." 329 00:14:33,494 --> 00:14:34,827 Two weeks, "Is this going to work or not? 330 00:14:34,827 --> 00:14:37,810 We've got two weeks, let's play with it. 331 00:14:37,810 --> 00:14:38,660 Let's work with it. 332 00:14:38,660 --> 00:14:39,880 Can we test it? 333 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:40,994 Can we release it?" 334 00:14:40,994 --> 00:14:43,160 So it's a bit like project management 335 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,050 that has moved to the agile mindset, 336 00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:48,209 which a lot of your listeners will know about. 337 00:14:48,209 --> 00:14:49,509 And that's all about scrums 338 00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:51,660 and, very quickly, what can we produce in two weeks? 339 00:14:51,660 --> 00:14:52,494 Boom, boom, boom. 340 00:14:52,494 --> 00:14:54,230 We're just going to sprint, 341 00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:56,620 get that out there, and then adjust. 342 00:14:56,620 --> 00:14:59,327 There's no point in my world, my learning world, 343 00:14:59,327 --> 00:15:01,290 there's no point in me spending six months 344 00:15:01,290 --> 00:15:04,620 to release a leadership and development program. 345 00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:06,160 Because I'll be out of date by 346 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,494 who knows what's going to happen. 347 00:15:08,494 --> 00:15:12,494 And it'll need to be adjusted as soon as I've released, 348 00:15:12,494 --> 00:15:13,949 it'll be old news. 349 00:15:13,949 --> 00:15:17,827 So think of that and what we are doing for our clients is, 350 00:15:17,827 --> 00:15:20,029 are we hitting what they really need? 351 00:15:20,029 --> 00:15:24,160 Are we curious enough to know what they really need? 352 00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:26,339 And are we releasing things quickly, 353 00:15:26,339 --> 00:15:29,827 so that helps people to experiment, 354 00:15:29,827 --> 00:15:31,827 it makes them feel safe, "We'll, give it a go." 355 00:15:31,827 --> 00:15:33,600 And, "Yes, we want it to be successful, 356 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,130 but we're not going to be upset if it doesn't. 357 00:15:35,130 --> 00:15:37,339 We're going to learn from it and quickly adjust 358 00:15:37,339 --> 00:15:39,940 to find something that does work." 359 00:15:39,940 --> 00:15:45,160 So that would be my advice, open, forward-facing, 360 00:15:45,180 --> 00:15:49,819 a clear overall purpose, 361 00:15:49,819 --> 00:15:52,259 making it safe for people to experiment, 362 00:15:52,259 --> 00:15:56,160 safe to fail and expect some things will not work. 363 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,660 And, lastly, do it quick enough, 364 00:15:57,660 --> 00:16:02,160 do short bursts super quick, and that helps you to stay agile, 365 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,660 for want of a better word, in a disrupted world. 366 00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:07,970 - Yes, so if I'm hearing you, correctly, 367 00:16:07,970 --> 00:16:10,370 it sounds like the first step of going 368 00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:14,993 from disrupted to disruptor is a mindset thing? 369 00:16:14,993 --> 00:16:18,209 Because you've gone over a lot of very practical steps. 370 00:16:18,209 --> 00:16:20,290 But I think the first step seems to be a mindset 371 00:16:20,290 --> 00:16:21,990 because you need to change 372 00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:23,660 the way you think about things and see things, 373 00:16:23,660 --> 00:16:26,630 and then really figure out your why, in a sense. 374 00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:30,040 So that you can understand where your business 375 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,826 is going and where you want to go. 376 00:16:32,826 --> 00:16:36,950 - Yes, I mean, you've got to look outward not inward. 377 00:16:36,950 --> 00:16:38,500 That's the first thing is, 378 00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:41,649 if you are looking for result and answers within, 379 00:16:41,649 --> 00:16:44,493 and spending too much time looking at processes, 380 00:16:44,493 --> 00:16:49,326 that's not going to help you focus on that. 381 00:16:49,326 --> 00:16:53,326 And don't be afraid to go broad beyond what your limit is. 382 00:16:53,326 --> 00:16:54,790 Like I said with the insurance example, 383 00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:57,826 who thought the training would be useful? 384 00:16:57,826 --> 00:16:59,659 And it actually brings back clients, 385 00:16:59,659 --> 00:17:02,809 it helps in so many different ways. 386 00:17:02,809 --> 00:17:05,159 You become a trusted resource to the client 387 00:17:05,159 --> 00:17:06,919 and it doesn't cost much to do it. 388 00:17:06,919 --> 00:17:08,659 So what else have we got? 389 00:17:08,659 --> 00:17:15,169 Really, it's making sure that we are hungry and curious 390 00:17:15,169 --> 00:17:16,459 to find out what's going on 391 00:17:16,459 --> 00:17:18,159 with the people we serve. 392 00:17:18,159 --> 00:17:19,659 - Mh-hmm. - Yes, that's it. 393 00:17:19,659 --> 00:17:23,480 Forget Your Troubles, that's the song, I know. 394 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,299 So forget your troubles and focus on the client. 395 00:17:27,299 --> 00:17:29,590 - And one thing that we had talked about before, 396 00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:32,021 that I remember seeing in a report 397 00:17:32,021 --> 00:17:33,326 that we were discussing. 398 00:17:33,326 --> 00:17:35,800 It was saying that, "Safety drives courage, 399 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,770 and courage drives experimentation." 400 00:17:37,770 --> 00:17:40,159 And I think that's a huge element, 401 00:17:40,159 --> 00:17:44,159 that when you feel safe, you feel that more emphasis 402 00:17:44,159 --> 00:17:46,492 to be able to, "Hey, I can make mistakes 403 00:17:46,492 --> 00:17:48,492 and I can do things, because this is..." 404 00:17:48,492 --> 00:17:51,070 It's almost like, "I'm in a sandbox right now, 405 00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:52,549 I can do everything I need to do. 406 00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:54,679 And, yes, things may break but it's okay 407 00:17:54,679 --> 00:17:57,250 and we can fix it and get it back together." 408 00:17:57,250 --> 00:17:59,492 And I think that's really important, especially, for organizations 409 00:17:59,492 --> 00:18:02,240 and for employees who feel this. 410 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,326 When things are disrupted the employees feel it the most, 411 00:18:04,326 --> 00:18:05,992 because it trickles down to them. 412 00:18:05,992 --> 00:18:08,826 And, so, for them to create that safe environment, 413 00:18:08,826 --> 00:18:12,620 it's not easy but it's essential. 414 00:18:12,620 --> 00:18:15,325 - You have to create, and that's what leaders don't realize, 415 00:18:15,325 --> 00:18:17,825 is that if they're frustrated, and they're worried, 416 00:18:17,825 --> 00:18:19,992 and they're concerned, 417 00:18:19,992 --> 00:18:21,730 your employees take the lead from you. 418 00:18:21,730 --> 00:18:23,010 The way you walk into the room, 419 00:18:23,010 --> 00:18:24,992 the way you describe the situation. 420 00:18:24,992 --> 00:18:27,325 So you could say, "Oh, we've got a big problem, 421 00:18:27,325 --> 00:18:30,659 we've lost 90% of our revenue." 422 00:18:30,659 --> 00:18:32,590 Which happened to me and a number of other people 423 00:18:32,590 --> 00:18:34,492 they lost all their revenue, at the beginning of Covid, 424 00:18:34,492 --> 00:18:36,325 because everything just stopped. 425 00:18:36,325 --> 00:18:38,825 You could come in like, "Oh, my goodness, yes, 426 00:18:38,825 --> 00:18:41,159 we've lost a 100% of our revenue. 427 00:18:41,159 --> 00:18:43,050 I don't know what we're going to do, 428 00:18:43,050 --> 00:18:44,850 but we're going to try and find out. 429 00:18:44,850 --> 00:18:45,825 I need you to go and see 430 00:18:45,825 --> 00:18:47,159 if we can get some more money." 431 00:18:47,159 --> 00:18:50,492 That's pushing people in an away state. 432 00:18:50,492 --> 00:18:52,992 Oh, my goodness, it's scaring them. 433 00:18:52,992 --> 00:18:55,658 What you want to do, is to get them into a place 434 00:18:55,658 --> 00:18:57,500 where they can scenario plan, 435 00:18:57,500 --> 00:18:59,740 and that needs to be a calm area. 436 00:18:59,740 --> 00:19:03,492 Where people can adapt and say to them, 437 00:19:03,492 --> 00:19:04,992 "Look, the way we've earned money 438 00:19:04,992 --> 00:19:08,325 has paused for the moment, with Covid. 439 00:19:08,325 --> 00:19:11,260 It's no surprise that people have stopped doing 440 00:19:11,260 --> 00:19:18,492 whatever it is that you are doing, across all these industries. 441 00:19:18,492 --> 00:19:23,325 So how can we help our clients through Covid? 442 00:19:23,325 --> 00:19:25,610 What is it that we could do, 443 00:19:25,610 --> 00:19:27,325 with everything we've got available to us, 444 00:19:27,325 --> 00:19:29,658 our resources, our knowledge, 445 00:19:29,658 --> 00:19:30,870 how can we serve them? 446 00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:32,970 How can we help them?" 447 00:19:32,970 --> 00:19:35,325 And that puts people, just by using that phrase, 448 00:19:35,325 --> 00:19:38,090 in a curious mindset, a forward mindset 449 00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:39,830 And they're like, "Yes." 450 00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:43,325 That you are focusing them on helping serve people, 451 00:19:43,325 --> 00:19:46,429 rather than worrying about the facts 452 00:19:46,429 --> 00:19:49,991 that your current revenue stream has dried up. 453 00:19:49,991 --> 00:19:51,991 Do you see what I'm saying there, Adam? 454 00:19:51,991 --> 00:19:53,825 It's a very different way. 455 00:19:53,825 --> 00:19:57,659 Just by the way a leader phrases problems to their team. 456 00:19:57,659 --> 00:20:02,825 It gives them that unleashing of potential and it creates, 457 00:20:02,825 --> 00:20:06,158 say you are creating a little bubble around your group, 458 00:20:06,158 --> 00:20:09,158 and focusing them on being curious, 459 00:20:09,158 --> 00:20:13,825 and trying to help move things forward. 460 00:20:13,825 --> 00:20:16,309 - What role has things like diversity, 461 00:20:16,309 --> 00:20:17,309 equity, and inclusion 462 00:20:17,309 --> 00:20:21,240 had in this disrupted versus disruptor relationship? 463 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,490 Because I can imagine that it is a big part of it 464 00:20:24,490 --> 00:20:25,770 and it's becoming a big part, 465 00:20:25,770 --> 00:20:27,590 especially, in our world society today. 466 00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:29,158 Of the things that have happened 467 00:20:29,158 --> 00:20:34,158 over the last hundreds of years have brought us to this point. 468 00:20:34,158 --> 00:20:35,929 What role does it play when trying 469 00:20:35,929 --> 00:20:38,824 to become disruptor versus disrupted? 470 00:20:38,824 --> 00:20:41,870 - Well, it has an immediate value to a leader, 471 00:20:41,870 --> 00:20:45,419 and I'm not sure that everybody really realizes that. 472 00:20:45,419 --> 00:20:49,110 It's having, "Wouldn't it be great 473 00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:51,770 if I could have all these different ways of thinking 474 00:20:51,770 --> 00:20:53,890 in my team and thought process?" 475 00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:56,830 Because they're more likely to come up with creative 476 00:20:56,830 --> 00:21:00,510 and different ideas to help us with this challenge. 477 00:21:00,510 --> 00:21:02,690 So that's the first thing. 478 00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:06,460 So diversity, equity, inclusion, 479 00:21:06,460 --> 00:21:08,820 which then equals to belonging, 480 00:21:08,820 --> 00:21:12,049 are all strapped together, they're a flow. 481 00:21:12,049 --> 00:21:15,491 So I like the analogy of diversity, 482 00:21:15,491 --> 00:21:20,491 making sure that everybody got invited to the party. 483 00:21:20,491 --> 00:21:24,110 So there's a party, making sure that we invited everyone, 484 00:21:24,110 --> 00:21:26,340 that's a diversity aspect. 485 00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:28,657 Trying to get as many different people there and thoughts. 486 00:21:28,657 --> 00:21:32,100 But then thinking, "Well, the equity is 487 00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:34,610 allowing them to get to the party, 488 00:21:34,610 --> 00:21:37,491 access the party, physical access, 489 00:21:37,491 --> 00:21:39,870 to be able to hear the music, see the music. 490 00:21:39,870 --> 00:21:43,500 If you can't hear it can they access this? 491 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:46,440 Is it on the fifth floor of a walk-up building, 492 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:47,157 setting things like that. 493 00:21:47,157 --> 00:21:49,630 But the equity is equitable, 494 00:21:49,630 --> 00:21:52,990 so all those diverse people can access it. 495 00:21:52,990 --> 00:21:57,157 And, then, lastly, everyone is being asked to dance, 496 00:21:57,157 --> 00:21:58,120 they're been included. 497 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,157 There's nobody sat on the bench. 498 00:22:00,157 --> 00:22:03,490 They're like, "No, everyone's come up and dance." 499 00:22:03,490 --> 00:22:06,179 Now, you know when you've got it right 500 00:22:06,179 --> 00:22:08,657 because belonging is affected, 501 00:22:08,657 --> 00:22:10,657 belonging is released. 502 00:22:10,657 --> 00:22:13,990 And belonging is a sense that you feel as though you belong. 503 00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:15,560 The fact that you are very diverse 504 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:16,560 from all the other people 505 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,010 you're working with, you belong. 506 00:22:18,010 --> 00:22:19,824 So equate that to a party, 507 00:22:19,824 --> 00:22:22,549 That's when I've invited everyone over to the dance floor 508 00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:25,824 and they're all dancing like no one is watching 509 00:22:25,824 --> 00:22:27,824 because they feel they're comfortable, 510 00:22:27,824 --> 00:22:28,540 they feel they belong. 511 00:22:28,540 --> 00:22:31,970 Wouldn't it be great if you had all of your people 512 00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:33,330 feeling like they belong? 513 00:22:33,330 --> 00:22:35,657 They could suggest stuff. 514 00:22:35,657 --> 00:22:37,429 Well, they understand the purpose 515 00:22:37,429 --> 00:22:39,030 but they're free to make suggestions. 516 00:22:39,030 --> 00:22:39,823 They're not looking over, 517 00:22:39,823 --> 00:22:40,823 "Well, I don't want to say that 518 00:22:40,823 --> 00:22:41,657 because my team leader is here 519 00:22:41,657 --> 00:22:44,657 and he's going to laugh at that idea." 520 00:22:44,657 --> 00:22:47,823 And there's a lot of examples we use 521 00:22:47,823 --> 00:22:51,157 in our training case studies that show companies 522 00:22:51,157 --> 00:22:55,500 that have helped themselves get out of a hole and a challenge. 523 00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:58,020 And it always came down to having 524 00:22:58,020 --> 00:23:00,600 as wide of a spectrum of people to pull from. 525 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,220 But then they felt comfortable 526 00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:04,160 to share some ideas, 527 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,050 and they came up with crazy ideas 528 00:23:06,050 --> 00:23:07,720 that would never work. 529 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,140 But then that leads to the not so crazy idea 530 00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:14,657 that they've never thought of that does work. 531 00:23:14,657 --> 00:23:16,179 So that's how I see diversity, 532 00:23:16,179 --> 00:23:18,730 equity and inclusion, really, 533 00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:23,470 a powerful tool here in getting the right people 534 00:23:23,470 --> 00:23:25,656 to help you with the problems. 535 00:23:25,656 --> 00:23:27,220 - It almost seems like that 536 00:23:27,220 --> 00:23:29,990 when you get to that point that, 537 00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:32,156 what you describe, almost, seems utopic. 538 00:23:32,156 --> 00:23:36,020 That place that we may never attain to 539 00:23:36,020 --> 00:23:37,669 but I feel like we should be working 540 00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:38,990 toward that moment, 541 00:23:38,990 --> 00:23:41,419 where everybody can feel like they can dance 542 00:23:41,419 --> 00:23:42,960 and nobody is watching. 543 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,800 And I think that would create the resilience 544 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,720 that organizations need to keep 545 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,990 going forward, in a sense. 546 00:23:48,990 --> 00:23:51,990 - Yes, but the leader is focused on their troubles 547 00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:53,823 and their challenges. 548 00:23:53,823 --> 00:23:56,156 But if you can focus on, 549 00:23:56,156 --> 00:23:58,299 "Hey, I want to create this environment 550 00:23:58,299 --> 00:24:01,156 where my people feel that they could say, 'What if? 551 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,640 Oh, have you thought about this? 552 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,989 I've never thought about maybe we could do this.'" 553 00:24:05,989 --> 00:24:07,090 And you can do that with 554 00:24:07,090 --> 00:24:08,450 small exercises in the group. 555 00:24:08,450 --> 00:24:10,230 You don't have to spend money; 556 00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:12,156 you can get a group together. 557 00:24:12,156 --> 00:24:15,989 How you do brainstorming, innovation, creativity, 558 00:24:15,989 --> 00:24:18,611 there's plenty of examples and tips out there. 559 00:24:18,611 --> 00:24:23,156 You can just do with a team in a conference room. 560 00:24:23,156 --> 00:24:25,390 And one of my favorite examples 561 00:24:25,390 --> 00:24:28,156 is a colleague of mine, Jane Thompson, 562 00:24:28,156 --> 00:24:31,322 she does her work in the Asia-Pacific region. 563 00:24:31,322 --> 00:24:32,989 And she uses this case study 564 00:24:32,989 --> 00:24:36,989 of the problem of electricity companies in Alaska, 565 00:24:36,989 --> 00:24:41,100 where ice would form on the electrical wires. 566 00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:43,320 So we have in America, on those poles, 567 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,330 and it would bring down the wires, 568 00:24:45,330 --> 00:24:46,989 and they could never keep up with it. 569 00:24:46,989 --> 00:24:47,809 They were like, "Well, 570 00:24:47,809 --> 00:24:50,322 how do we get rid of the ice on the wires?" 571 00:24:50,322 --> 00:24:52,240 So they had a huge brainstorming event, 572 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,989 they came up with all kinds of things. 573 00:24:54,989 --> 00:24:56,989 The crazy idea was, 574 00:24:56,989 --> 00:25:00,340 "We're going to put honey on top of the wire, 575 00:25:00,340 --> 00:25:03,156 the telephone wire pole." 576 00:25:03,156 --> 00:25:04,720 And they're like, "Well, why would you do that?" 577 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,600 "Well, so the grizzly bears will come up" 578 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:08,600 or whatever type of bear, 579 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,020 I'm being a little bit exclusive, diverse, I'd say. 580 00:25:12,020 --> 00:25:15,270 Any type of bear that likes honey would climb up 581 00:25:15,270 --> 00:25:18,489 and in doing so would shake the pole and knock the ice off. 582 00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:21,190 Now, do you think that would actually work? 583 00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:23,989 - It doesn't sound like it. 584 00:25:23,989 --> 00:25:26,399 - It's a crazy idea. 585 00:25:26,399 --> 00:25:28,059 And we use this in our training to say, 586 00:25:28,059 --> 00:25:29,489 "Well, why would you come up with that?" 587 00:25:29,489 --> 00:25:32,250 But then it opened their minds up so much 588 00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:34,750 they came up with the actual solution. 589 00:25:34,750 --> 00:25:36,540 And all you got to do, they found out, 590 00:25:36,540 --> 00:25:40,489 is hire a helicopter, on those winter days, 591 00:25:40,489 --> 00:25:43,060 just after the precipitation has fallen, 592 00:25:43,060 --> 00:25:44,380 and hover over the wires 593 00:25:44,380 --> 00:25:46,340 and it blows the ice off of your wires, 594 00:25:46,340 --> 00:25:50,410 and you don't have the problem with broken wires. 595 00:25:50,410 --> 00:25:54,110 No one would've thought of that before, no one. 596 00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:55,559 But they had to go there first. 597 00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:57,740 So, like you said, you have to aim 598 00:25:57,740 --> 00:25:59,830 for everyone feeling like they can dance, 599 00:25:59,830 --> 00:26:01,822 so no one is watching. 600 00:26:01,822 --> 00:26:02,655 You may never reach that, 601 00:26:02,655 --> 00:26:03,489 but that's not the point, 602 00:26:03,489 --> 00:26:04,970 the fact point is you're trying 603 00:26:04,970 --> 00:26:07,160 to open up their thought process 604 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,919 because then they will access the real ideas afterwards. 605 00:26:11,919 --> 00:26:15,610 So that's just one example of many that are out there, 606 00:26:15,610 --> 00:26:18,679 that people can look up quite easily. 607 00:26:18,679 --> 00:26:21,640 - So we've been going a lot through this conversation, 608 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:22,929 I think, it's been really helpful. 609 00:26:22,929 --> 00:26:24,440 But there's one thing I keep wondering, 610 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,220 in the back of my head, 611 00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:28,230 is for that disrupted leader, 612 00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:30,822 who's trying to become the disruptor. 613 00:26:30,822 --> 00:26:33,080 How do you still deal with the fact that, 614 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,750 there is always going to be those minutiae thing 615 00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:36,750 that are still there. 616 00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:38,320 They're still going to be there. 617 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,320 How do you get past that 618 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,510 or how do you still deal with those things? 619 00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:42,510 Because they're still there 620 00:26:42,510 --> 00:26:43,520 and they have to be dealt with, 621 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:44,929 but also you want to expand your mind 622 00:26:44,929 --> 00:26:45,655 to these bigger things. 623 00:26:45,655 --> 00:26:46,929 So that you can become the disruptor 624 00:26:46,929 --> 00:26:49,655 and become a better leader, in a sense. 625 00:26:49,655 --> 00:26:55,321 - Well, I think, the fact is we're in this situation. 626 00:26:55,321 --> 00:26:58,155 And, so, you know in a month's time 627 00:26:58,155 --> 00:26:59,821 that you might go out of business 628 00:26:59,821 --> 00:27:02,490 or you need to get some game 629 00:27:02,490 --> 00:27:04,321 by the end of the month. 630 00:27:04,321 --> 00:27:05,750 Just by the changing the way 631 00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:07,460 you are acting straight away. 632 00:27:07,460 --> 00:27:10,419 I'm not asking people to do extra work, 633 00:27:10,419 --> 00:27:13,821 I'm asking them to change the way they're talking, 634 00:27:13,821 --> 00:27:17,155 change the way they're interacting. 635 00:27:17,155 --> 00:27:18,809 Don't bother phoning up all the clients 636 00:27:18,809 --> 00:27:21,410 you know are not going to give you the business. 637 00:27:21,410 --> 00:27:23,020 Let's spend a bit more time looking 638 00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:26,090 at what people really need and talking to 639 00:27:26,090 --> 00:27:27,090 people in the industry. 640 00:27:27,090 --> 00:27:28,090 Do you see what I mean? 641 00:27:28,090 --> 00:27:31,500 Doing all of these things that I mentioned before, 642 00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:33,988 on a day-to-day basis. 643 00:27:33,988 --> 00:27:36,510 And say to yourself, "Okay, the first week, 644 00:27:36,510 --> 00:27:38,860 we need to pick something that might work great. 645 00:27:38,860 --> 00:27:41,488 We're going to try this, two weeks' time, 646 00:27:41,488 --> 00:27:44,059 if it doesn't work, we'll try something else 647 00:27:44,059 --> 00:27:47,659 or if it works a bit we'll adjust it." 648 00:27:47,659 --> 00:27:50,654 So that's the only real way through this 649 00:27:50,654 --> 00:27:52,210 because you can sit and worry about 650 00:27:52,210 --> 00:27:54,780 something that you know, "If we don't fix this, 651 00:27:54,780 --> 00:27:57,654 we're going out of business in a month 652 00:27:57,654 --> 00:27:59,821 or we're going to have to do something else." 653 00:27:59,821 --> 00:28:02,988 Let's get on board early. 654 00:28:02,988 --> 00:28:05,120 Change the way we're meeting; 655 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:06,821 change the way we're talking to people. 656 00:28:06,821 --> 00:28:09,169 If you have a one-to-one catch up 657 00:28:09,169 --> 00:28:12,154 stop talking about updates 658 00:28:12,154 --> 00:28:15,321 that you know in the current market composition 659 00:28:15,321 --> 00:28:16,919 that we have an end date, 660 00:28:16,919 --> 00:28:17,654 stop talking about that. 661 00:28:17,654 --> 00:28:19,620 Start thinking about, "What if?" 662 00:28:19,620 --> 00:28:22,487 Talking about what if in your one-to-ones. 663 00:28:22,487 --> 00:28:26,487 So that would be my biggest recommendation. 664 00:28:26,487 --> 00:28:29,987 It's going to happen, so you need to get on board 665 00:28:29,987 --> 00:28:36,487 with, "Hey, if I keep doing the same stuff it's going to fail. 666 00:28:36,529 --> 00:28:39,987 So what can I do differently in the way, I talk to people? 667 00:28:39,987 --> 00:28:42,821 Where I'm looking for answers? 668 00:28:42,821 --> 00:28:45,487 Change who I'm talking to in the market. 669 00:28:45,487 --> 00:28:47,429 Let's try and unleash this, 670 00:28:47,429 --> 00:28:49,909 but know that whatever we come up with 671 00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:52,987 in the first week, we're going to try and move forward. 672 00:28:52,987 --> 00:28:55,150 < Outro > 673 00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:57,880 - This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, 674 00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,890 providing you with the latest perspectives 675 00:28:59,890 --> 00:29:01,390 of thought leaders from the accounting 676 00:29:01,390 --> 00:29:02,390 and finance profession. 677 00:29:02,390 --> 00:29:03,821 If you like what you heard 678 00:29:03,821 --> 00:29:05,899 and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant 679 00:29:05,899 --> 00:29:07,654 accounting and finance education, 680 00:29:07,654 --> 00:29:15,487 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.