{ "version": "1.0.0", "segments": [ { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "0.0", "endTime": "19.615", "body": "So we discussed in a previous episode about the core of the brand, and I'm very fascinating about what you have been doing building the Pathfinder. You nudged into it in the previous session that we had, but I want to dive into the Pathfinder. So tell us, first of all, what the Pathfinder is for those who don't know." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "21.375", "endTime": "39.239998", "body": "Pathfinder is a non alcoholic spirit made of hemp and root distilled. It is an Amaro like liquid based on the American West of the eighteen forties, pre gold rush. It's taken the world by storm. It's doing really well. So anyway" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "39.32", "endTime": "48.245", "body": "In a previous episode, like, from a couple of years back, you mentioned something about non alk spirits must not be stupid." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "48.965", "endTime": "69.04", "body": "Well, yeah. So the Pathfinder started when I got a call from Guy Eskom, who was my client at Guinness. And then he went to Johnny Walker, and he said, do you want to work with us on an odd out spirit? And I was like, I don't know, man. I've tried a few of them, and I thought they were like the emperor's new clothes." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "69.04", "endTime": "102.095", "body": "I thought they were kind of bullshit, and I thought they were kind of like snake oil. And so I thought it'd be funny to create a brand that actually worked like snake oil because it was me poking fun at the industry. And I'm also started with the initial idea for the brand was we were gonna be a cannabis brand. And the other partner, Chris Abbott, is a cannabis entrepreneur. He he we wanted to base it off the golden age of cannabis, which is why it's got that American West 1840s kind of vibe." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "102.095", "endTime": "128.975", "body": "So but the snake oil thing was us kind of poking fun at the whole category of being, like, snake oil. So I also thought it would be fun to work on this category and have all of these outrageous claims. So what is it? Destroyer of bad vibes is our tagline. It's a cure for weak knees, And it's funny." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "128.975", "endTime": "166.945", "body": "We have all these outrageous claims on the bottle that you just can't do in spirit. So we just had like a lot of fun with this. And then the liquid itself, we wanted it to taste like I made a brand a couple years ago called Art in the Age. There was a flavor called Root, which was an alcoholic version of what root beer Root beer started as an alcoholic tea, and then it became non alk. The first non alk wave was during the eighteen seventy six centennial celebration in Philadelphia, and hires created root beer, and root beer was actually a non alk version of alcoholic root tea." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "167.79", "endTime": "209.045", "body": "So when I launched Art in the Age Root, it was the alcoholic version of the original root tea. That flavor was very popular. We sold that brand to Grant's, the Grant's didn't want to continue it after a while, so they gave the brand back to me. So I said, well, we should make the Pathfinder reminiscent of that route, which was sassafrasse, wintergreen, a lot of American herbal things that were really interesting. I also thought, one of the things I saw in the non alk category was everyone was trying to say, this is a non alk tequila, this is a non alk whiskey, this is a non alk gin." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "209.045", "endTime": "243.06502", "body": "That's not smart to me because then I have something to compare it to, and I can say, that doesn't taste like whiskey. That doesn't taste like gin. So I thought being more in the Amaro area would give us freedom to create something that was unique to what it was? I wanted to create a great brand that just happened to not have alcohol, as opposed to creating a non alc tequila. We're careful not to call the Pathfinder in a maroon, but it does work like a fernet." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "243.705", "endTime": "272.39502", "body": "We like to say fernet without regret, but it's got that sort of alpine Jaeger vibe to it. And I also, like, I'm a drinker, so I mix my Pathfinder with I'll make a lower proof Manhattan or I'll make a lower proof Negroni, and they're great drinks. So to me, it's like Pathfinder is a way of reducing ABV level in my cocktails. I also mix it in a lager. It's really good in a beer." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "272.795", "endTime": "305.76", "body": "We're very careful to not be a non alk brand per se, a mocktail brand. Like, we equally talk about alcoholic cocktails as we do about non alk cocktails. I think a lot of non alk brands, the expression your strategy is showing, we say that in advertising sometimes when it's too obvious what To you're trying to me, a lot of non out brands are very clearly, even the names of the brands. There's a gym brand called Mondays, I'm like, oh, I get it. On Monday, I'm fresh and alive." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "305.76", "endTime": "313.04", "body": "I'm recovering from my weekend. I get it. So I feel like the Pathfinder is just a great fucking brand. It just happens to not hang out." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "313.04", "endTime": "329.495", "body": "Many of the brands that I'm analyzing or aware of in the non alc space have that common ground. For example, from BOTIVO in The UK, that is another great brand for me that just happens to be non alkali." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "329.575", "endTime": "333.63", "body": "I haven't tried BOTIVO, but I I like what they're doing. I think they're another brand that" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "333.71", "endTime": "342.19", "body": "Yeah. And it's, you know, it's all these brands that actually they're not like I'm deciding not to do something. It's more like I'm doing something." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "342.19", "endTime": "374.64", "body": "Yeah. Oh, and and I think the Pathfinder brand has a level of mysticism, and it resonates the same way an alcoholic brand does. So to me, the Pathfinder is every bit as interesting as as Hendrix. And we deliberately approach the brand that way, that it's mysterious, it's got a sense of humor, it's got a magical quality to it. And that's it just happens to not have alcohol in it." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "374.64", "endTime": "409.57498", "body": "In fact, I think the whole non alk thing, it's not even something we never consider. I just say, it's just the Pathfinder. And the other thing too, I think what's amazing about Pathfinder is we created a liquid that works in coffee, it works in cocktails, mocktails, beer cocktails, and it's really good to cook with. So and I'm sure I'm stealing this from someone else, but we like to call it it's like ketchup because it works with everything. And that's why it does well because it's so useful in so many different things." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "409.57498", "endTime": "426.37997", "body": "And in a lot of bars what's this? A great Amaro bar in New York. I forget what it's called. But we were the only non alc on the back bar because they use the Pathfinder in a lot of their drinks across the board, not just their non ALK" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "426.37997", "endTime": "444.34503", "body": "drinks. Tell me more about this because I think you mentioned it also in brand mysticism in the book, but for sure in the recent post on LinkedIn about the three main things about successful brand, differentiated liquid, stand out packaging, immersive brand world." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "445.30502", "endTime": "455.31", "body": "Yeah, it's pretty obvious. And then the fourth thing is time. You gotta because something's gotta you know, it doesn't happen overnight. Yeah. I mean, it's like you just gotta and they all need to happen at once." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "455.31", "endTime": "496.775", "body": "So it is like a cosmic big bang of creation. I always hate when we work with these bigger companies. It's like they have a One firm does packaging, one agency does above the line, another agency does experiential. We're like, no, we need to do all of it. We want to do every single aspect of it, because that's how you know it's like one idea, and the one idea is burst upon the world as a singular thought, and that's how something works and how it resonates with the consumer, is that it feels like it's a cohesive idea, not not bits and pieces of it." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "496.775", "endTime": "502.85498", "body": "And I I Do you think that it needs kinda like being adjusted when it's alcoholic versus nonalcoholic, or it doesn't really No." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "503.78", "endTime": "511.78", "body": "No. No. No. It could be a freaking sausage. A brand's a brand." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "511.78", "endTime": "536.75", "body": "I think more sausages could benefit from brand mysticism. The reason I like the spirits category is the level of storytelling you can do, the level of weirdness you can put into a brand. And so, yeah, of course you can put that into a non out brand, of course, especially the way we've built it. So" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "536.99", "endTime": "545.39", "body": "And do you think that, you know, many nonalcoholic brands are kinda like scared of doing that? You know, they start from kinda like privation rather than" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "546.82996", "endTime": "573.08", "body": "Absolutely. Yeah. I think the category that's how the category started. But I think as the category matures, there'll be more we've already seen quite a few knockoffs in what we're doing, but there'll be quite a few more brands that take the approach that we did, although they won't do it as well as we did because, you know, only I can do that. But yeah, I think as the category matures, and I think it is a real category." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "573.08", "endTime": "604.83997", "body": "It's also we're seeing it with the THC category, and who knows where that's going? I think it's going to get fixed in the next year, and it's going to become a permanent legal skew, so if anyone's hoping that it goes away, unfortunately, don't care either way because I'm going to make money on it, I think it's going to be here to stay, but we've seen now a lot of those brands again, have names nowadays. I'm sure it's a great brand. I've never tried it. But I'm just saying they have names that are functional, functional names, as opposed to" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "606.51996", "endTime": "606.83997", "body": "brand. You" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "607.94495", "endTime": "640.605", "body": "see what I mean? Yeah, so I feel like as a category matures, there's more room to do a brand that's interesting. Although, it's interesting, The reason Hendrix is the global behemoth that it is, it was the first. It was the first craft First interesting craft gym in the world, and everything else came after. Pathfinder has the same benefit." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "640.605", "endTime": "655.01", "body": "It wasn't the first Monarch, but it was the first interesting one. And I think that's partially why we had the momentum we had. Instead, it was right place, right time. I'll always say, it's like surfing. Get on you're on the board." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "655.01", "endTime": "679.69", "body": "First of all, you need to know how to surf. And then you're on your board, and you're just waiting for the wave. So if you've got your brand, if you've everything lined up, everything's working, you got your brand, you got your packaging, you got your liquid, you're just waiting for that wave to come in. And when that wave comes in, then you get on the board and you ride it in. And the the fundamentals are there, but you gotta do right place, right time," }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "679.69", "endTime": "679.93005", "body": "at the" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "679.93005", "endTime": "680.25", "body": "same time." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "680.25", "endTime": "684.01", "body": "And if you have the perfect wave, but you don't know how to surf, it's useless." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "684.33", "endTime": "686.49005", "body": "You don't know how to scale. You don't know how to do this." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "686.49005", "endTime": "693.13", "body": "So Tell me. In a previous episode, you were mentioning that you were building Pathfinder with on and off trade. You know? Like, you wanted to make sure that." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "693.355", "endTime": "694.955", "body": "Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So here" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "694.875", "endTime": "696.315", "body": "Let's we dive into that." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "697.59503", "endTime": "727.175", "body": "Okay. So we launched Pathfinder. We wanted it to be again, we said we wanted to create a great brand that just happens to not have alcohol. So the thought was, let's launch it like a traditional spirit. So we launched in Seattle at a bar called Life on Mars, which is a very good cocktail bar, And we even poached the bartender there." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "727.175", "endTime": "752.555", "body": "He became our brand ambassador, Craig. And we then just focused on one, just the neighborhood around, forget what it's called, Capital Hill, is that what it's called? We just focused on that neighborhood and got into all the right bars. And then when we saturated Seattle and we started getting into the off trade, we got into all the coffee shops, got everyone. Seattle is the epicenter for Pathfinder." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "753.03503", "endTime": "815.695", "body": "Then we got into the best bars, Depp and Co, all the best bars around the country, but handpicked and sold it in, so we really worked the on trade first, launched it like a traditional spirit. And it wasn't until, I think, two years later that we did our first canned RTD, which is very different than the way everyone else had done. And I think what we've done, so we have a really healthy on premise seven fifty ml bottle sales, very healthy on premise, and then we which made so that's why Pathfinder is is in a lot of the best bars on the menu, which is very different than brands that launch strictly doing direct to consumer or strictly launched with canned RTDs. So our canned RTDs then came out, we have did the Spritz. No, I think we launched the Negroni first, the Spritz, and now we just came out with the Espresso Autotonic, which they're all doing very well, but they're, I think, the foundation of the $7.50 launch is key to the brand's success." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "815.695", "endTime": "818.655", "body": "And why do you choose Seattle instead of Philly?" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "821.455", "endTime": "833.43", "body": "Because that's where Chris, our Chris Maffeo, our cannabis entrepreneur. That's where he's from. And it's also the brand world is based on the Pacific Northwest in terms of the botanicals and" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "833.43", "endTime": "836.95", "body": "the story. So that was the home turf Yeah. For the brand in that sense." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "836.95", "endTime": "845.915", "body": "Yeah. Yeah. So the brand lives in Seattle. I think we're in eight cities with our brand ambassadors, and then we're also in The UK." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "847.995", "endTime": "867.81", "body": "Do you think that very often brands are kinda lacking that specific specificity of whatever it's because I can't say that word. You know, the specific city, like that kinda home turf that to build the brand on. You know, like, they just decide on launching on London, New York. You know, like, they just go for the big." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "868.115", "endTime": "888.46", "body": "Oh, I I I totally I think I think a big mistake people make is wanting to launch in New York, London, all the hot cities. It's so hard to get attention. It's better to launch in a I mean, go back to Sailor Jerry. The reason the brand worked is that they focused on the Rust Belt. We didn't get to LA or New York till years in." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "888.77997", "endTime": "895.74", "body": "It's not always that way. It's just it's harder to get attention. I think it's very important for a brand to have a provenance, a place where it's from." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "896.205", "endTime": "917.92", "body": "Yep. Because very often I see these brands are you know, they're either lacking a home, but, you know, in that sense, I mean, the Pathfinders had a home elsewhere, know, because it wasn't made in Seattle. But Yeah. The brand world is from the Pacific West Coast, as you said. Yes." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "918.24", "endTime": "930.935", "body": "I see brands are kinda like unclear in that element, and then they default to the big cosmopolitan cities because that's where they think that they belong anyway because it's a global brand." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "930.935", "endTime": "938.07", "body": "Yeah. Oh, I know. Let's launch in Austin. No. You know what I mean?" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "938.07", "endTime": "959.185", "body": "It's like every brand launches their shit in Austin. No. So the Pathfinder named after a James Fenimore Cooper book. James Fenimore Cooper wrote Les Mille Eukins. He also wrote The Deer Slayer, and he wrote The Pathfinder." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "959.185", "endTime": "978.64496", "body": "The Deer Slayer is another brand of mine. It's the venison whiskey we make. So I came up with the name Pathfinder based on these old books I'm reading. And I don't know. So there's just every aspect of the brand has this weird again, our brands purposely don't make any sense." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "979.845", "endTime": "984.805", "body": "We purposely make them just weird, and it's just weird. It's like" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "984.64496", "endTime": "986.96497", "body": "You said ugly on purpose, last sign. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Filiberto Amati", "startTime": "987.845", "endTime": "991.52997", "body": "Ugly on purpose. You're looking at some weird ingredients. Oh, let's throw a little bit there." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "992.25", "endTime": "1011.515", "body": "And you're like, what? That makes no sense. But when you taste it, it's like, ah. And that's what makes it resonate, and what makes it jump out and pop out and create interest. But then the strangeness of it all is what creates something fresh and new which resonates with the consumer." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1011.835", "endTime": "1052.7399", "body": "So the other thing that we worked into the Pathfinder is, so the Pathfinder, it's a book by James Fenimore Cooper Cooper. He lived in the eighteen thirties. The book was written in the eighteen thirties. There was a guy named John c Fremont who they dubbed the Pathfinder, who explored the American West in the eighteen fifties. But this time, there was also this period where spiritualism was a specific movement in the mid eighteen hundreds, which was the dawning of industrialization and the end of the civil during the civil war, people were looking for spiritual answers, so they turned to seances and they turned to, like, Ouija boards and weird shit like that." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1053.22", "endTime": "1081.91", "body": "So there's a big element of spiritualism worked into the Pathfinder with the all seeing eye, and so there's a heavy dose of mystical energy that we put into this, which makes the brand interesting and makes it resonate, but it also gives the feeling that there's a magical quality to the liquid. So all these things come together and create this very bizarre product that seems to be taking over the world. Mhmm." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1081.99", "endTime": "1107.6", "body": "And what you were saying last time and what I see in relation to the Pathfinder is also this very kinda, like, deep brand world. Know, in the book you're making the example of the Simpsons as kind of like layers that are, you know, like the the the ability for a brand to not alienating the the newcomers, but at the same time being deep enough for the loyal loyals." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1108.96", "endTime": "1134.35", "body": "Yes. And I think that everything I learned from Hendrix, I poured into the Pathfinder. And what I learned from Hendrix, it's from just experience over twenty five years. What I mean by that is we've made Pathfinder the weirdest fucking brand on purpose, and I think it's just gonna get stranger. Stranger and stranger." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1134.35", "endTime": "1171.15", "body": "And I've never had a brand before where we've gotten into every single Total Wine store without a trial, or we've gotten into every single Whole Foods without a trial. This has grown faster than any spirits brand I've ever wanted, and it's exciting. And it's fun for me to work outside of the rules and regs of the three tier system in The United States because you can literally do anything. So it's been a wild ride, it's a fun ride." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1171.15", "endTime": "1176.015", "body": "So it's fun as a spirits brand, but it's actually easier to build." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1176.015", "endTime": "1183.2949", "body": "Yeah. But you can do stuff. And I can make outrageous claims without without the government breathing down my back. And" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1184.495", "endTime": "1198.08", "body": "let's dive into another aspect, which is the let's call it the occasion, like the consumption occasion. You mentioned it's very flexible. You're gonna use it with coffee and with beer, with cocktails on its own." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1198.0801", "endTime": "1198.5599", "body": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1198.56", "endTime": "1205.9049", "body": "Is there like, what's your take when building brands on you know, do you need to have a clear core occasion?" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1206.0651", "endTime": "1214.7051", "body": "We need to really think it through. How are people gonna use it? What's it for? Don't just say you'll figure it out along the way. I mean, you will." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1214.7051", "endTime": "1219.04", "body": "You'll figure out more things along the way, but definitely think, okay. What's how" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1219.28", "endTime": "1228.32", "body": "Do you suffer from one, or do you have, like, a panel of them and then you do small experiments and then you double down on the winners?" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1230.4", "endTime": "1255.8499", "body": "We have a whole team of people at Quaker City who do a test and talk and do all these things. The other rule is like bend it, don't break it in the sense of you can make shit that's too weird, and nobody wants it. Done that a couple times. You gotta make it relatable, so it's kinda like it's different, yet it's familiar to something other experience I've had so I can imagine how to use it. You see what I mean?" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1256.57", "endTime": "1265.3549", "body": "So that's why I'm saying, like, Pathfinder's frenet without regret. Like, it's okay. So I it's kind of a tomorrow. Like, I get I get what? How I can how will I be able to use that?" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1265.4349", "endTime": "1279.4799", "body": "But I'm not trying to be exactly like that. It's like its own thing, so it adds a new flavor. So I'm not I don't wanna replicate what's out there, but I also don't wanna make it so different that no one can imagine what to do with it." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1279.6399", "endTime": "1302.215", "body": "I like to call it the ring road of the cell in ring road. I'm from Rome, so it's typically European kind of ring road around the city, and then you can choose which way to go into the city. You have to find this I mean, people call it category entry points or I like to call it this way. And then you can get into the, you know, there is the botanical aspect. There is, you know, people like Amaro." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1302.215", "endTime": "1322.4349", "body": "So maybe then you talk more about the Amaro aspect. People want to have something with coffee to boost their coffee and then, you know, you use that into the selling story. You know, depending on which type of angle you see the buyer of the shopper or the consumer wants to hear, then you double down on that element." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1323.7949", "endTime": "1338.7198", "body": "Yeah. You know, the oh, and now I remember the calling it ketchup. We took that from Saint Germain first came out. Rob Cooper told me that it was bartenders ketchup. And I was like, oh, it's so good." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1338.72", "endTime": "1352.395", "body": "And because Saint Germain was used in everything. It was the miracle ingredient for everything. I'm like, that's pretty smart. So yeah. So that I'm attributing the catch up phrase to Rob Cooper." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1353.275", "endTime": "1354.0751", "body": "Rest in peace." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1354.0751", "endTime": "1371.17", "body": "That's beautiful. And it's very similar to what you know, like, there's a friend of mine, Adam. I'm calling him out so that so that when he listen to the episode, he will he will listen to his name. And he told me he's a bartender. He's one of the best bartenders, Prague, and and he was telling me that his ketchup, let's call it, is for net branca, for example." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1371.675", "endTime": "1382.155", "body": "No. When he misses something on a cocktail, I need to put a little bit of something else, then that's what he's usually using. You know? And every time, like, it became a bit of a joke. You know?" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1382.155", "endTime": "1385.1951", "body": "When he makes a cocktail for me, there's like, guess what's in it?" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1385.1951", "endTime": "1406.095", "body": "Yeah. But that there's a certain familiar it's like like literal Heinz ketchup is a standard. So you wanna create a liquid that works with everything, but then becomes a familiar standard that you can imagine in your mind. Like, oh, I bet you would be good in this. You know?" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1406.095", "endTime": "1407.0549", "body": "So I think that's" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1407.135", "endTime": "1410.495", "body": "few brands that have that. You know? Like, very few I mean, Campari is another one." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1410.495", "endTime": "1423.8099", "body": "Exactly. And Aperol. So that was the goal with the Pathfinder is to create a new standard. It's gotta have it can't just be the liquid. It's gotta be all the shit that happens with it." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1424.21", "endTime": "1448.73", "body": "And you wanna create the brand so it's got this mystery, layers of meaning, great liquid, but then it also feels like it's always been there. And that's the key. And I do think that Pathfinder is exciting to work on something, and when it really starts to take off and go viral, no better feeling in the world than that." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1449.37", "endTime": "1450.89", "body": "Okay. I can feel the passion." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1450.89", "endTime": "1475.95", "body": "And it's funny because I really like my partners on the Pathfinder. They're a great team to work with, and that's a big part of why it's growing is everyone involved in this brand is of a similar mindset and similar values. So a big part of it growing is, we do, QCM does all the branding, but the team involved, everything from the fundraising to everything involved, the the whole team on this brand is amazing." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1475.95", "endTime": "1487.5499", "body": "And I think that that's the key in ultimately bringing people with you because you can have the inspiration and the creative moment. But then if you don't bring the people with you on the journey, then it begins." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1488.045", "endTime": "1509.78", "body": "You know, the other brand were Narragansett beer, the brand we've worked with since 2008 that we're part owners of. It works because we have a similar mindset to the other owners of the brand. And Ganta's doing great right now because, you know, people aren't drinking craft beer, but they're drinking lager. And we're a great American lager," }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1509.78", "endTime": "1517.9401", "body": "so anyway. Fantastic. Yeah. So last thoughts, Steve. Like, leave us with some final thoughts to close the episode." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1519.455", "endTime": "1542.99", "body": "I think Not Alc is here to stay. I think it's a maturing category, and it needs to start creating some great brands within the category. And I think it's an exciting development, and I wish everyone all the luck. But if you really wanna get it moving, I am the shortcut." }, { "speaker": "Filiberto Amati", "startTime": "1545.105", "endTime": "1546.785", "body": "I was waiting for them." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1546.785", "endTime": "1548.225", "body": "You're waiting. I served" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1548.625", "endTime": "1551.105", "body": "it on the silver plate." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1551.665", "endTime": "1554.865", "body": "Hey, man. An American who likes to make money." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1555.5851", "endTime": "1562.0", "body": "Oh, fantastic, Steve. It was a it was a fantastic chat. Yeah. And it was long overdue, so I'm really happy that we managed to" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1562.5599", "endTime": "1571.375", "body": "Yeah. Me too. Let's I'm I'm gonna come see you one day in Prague. So next time I'm in I'll make it happen. And likewise," }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1571.375", "endTime": "1574.655", "body": "I have to come and see you at the Yeah. Absolutely. Especially in New" }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1574.655", "endTime": "1577.455", "body": "Hampshire. Absolutely." }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1577.455", "endTime": "1581.3749", "body": "Yeah. When I see those beautiful photos of the distillery, it makes me wanna come there." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1581.455", "endTime": "1582.895", "body": "Alright, sir. Happy New" }, { "speaker": "Chris Maffeo", "startTime": "1582.895", "endTime": "1584.495", "body": "Year to you. Thanks, Steve." }, { "speaker": "Steven Grasse", "startTime": "1584.495", "endTime": "1586.3899", "body": "Yep. Bye. Bye." } ] }