1 00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:02,330 Carol Cox: If you're an author who wants to build your 2 00:00:02,330 --> 00:00:05,090 speaking platform even, or especially if 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,820 you're an introvert or you're a speaker who 4 00:00:07,820 --> 00:00:09,650 knows that you want to write a book, you're 5 00:00:09,650 --> 00:00:11,840 going to love. My conversation with Tiffany 6 00:00:11,870 --> 00:00:14,060 Hawk on this episode of the Speaking Your 7 00:00:14,060 --> 00:00:15,140 Brand podcast. 8 00:00:18,500 --> 00:00:21,200 More and more women are making an impact by 9 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,930 starting businesses, running for office, and 10 00:00:23,930 --> 00:00:25,940 speaking up for what matters. 11 00:00:25,970 --> 00:00:28,220 With my background as a TV political 12 00:00:28,220 --> 00:00:31,070 analyst, entrepreneur, and speaker, I 13 00:00:31,070 --> 00:00:33,500 interview and coach purpose driven women to 14 00:00:33,530 --> 00:00:35,990 shape their brands, grow their companies, 15 00:00:35,990 --> 00:00:38,660 and become recognized as influencers in 16 00:00:38,690 --> 00:00:41,990 their field. This is speaking your brand, 17 00:00:42,020 --> 00:00:44,540 your place to learn how to persuasively 18 00:00:44,540 --> 00:00:47,900 communicate your message to your audience. 19 00:00:49,130 --> 00:00:51,590 Before we get into today's episode, I want 20 00:00:51,590 --> 00:00:53,720 to let you know about our brand new 21 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,630 in-person speaking workshop we're holding in 22 00:00:56,630 --> 00:01:00,220 Orlando, Florida on October 10th, 2020 2024. 23 00:01:00,220 --> 00:01:02,830 Early bird pricing is on right now. 24 00:01:02,830 --> 00:01:05,500 If you want to ten x your speaking skills, 25 00:01:05,500 --> 00:01:08,200 both your storytelling and your delivery, 26 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,960 this event is exactly the one you've been 27 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:13,420 waiting for. If you want to learn how to 28 00:01:13,450 --> 00:01:16,120 lessen those butterflies, those nerves that 29 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,160 sometimes get the best of you before a 30 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:19,240 speaking engagement. 31 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,370 If you want to learn how to speak 32 00:01:21,370 --> 00:01:24,430 comfortably without notes and without a 33 00:01:24,430 --> 00:01:26,890 script, if you want to develop your 34 00:01:26,890 --> 00:01:28,990 storytelling skills so that you can tell 35 00:01:29,020 --> 00:01:31,270 stories in a compelling way to your 36 00:01:31,270 --> 00:01:34,450 audiences, as well as know how to activate 37 00:01:34,450 --> 00:01:36,970 your storytelling with body movement, 38 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,210 strategic pausing, and vocal variation in 39 00:01:40,210 --> 00:01:42,970 your delivery. And if you want to boost your 40 00:01:42,970 --> 00:01:45,580 confidence and your stage presence, this is 41 00:01:45,580 --> 00:01:47,740 what you're going to do. At our full day 42 00:01:47,740 --> 00:01:50,500 in-person workshop, you'll get personalized 43 00:01:50,500 --> 00:01:53,950 hands on coaching instruction and feedback. 44 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:56,410 You'll get to practice on our stage. 45 00:01:56,410 --> 00:01:58,450 We're going to help you develop your key 46 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:00,510 stories in your talk segments and then of 47 00:02:00,510 --> 00:02:02,580 course, give you feedback as you're 48 00:02:02,580 --> 00:02:05,280 practicing them in a supportive environment 49 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,280 with other women entrepreneurs and leaders. 50 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,040 You also get professional photography of you 51 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:13,470 speaking that you can use on your website 52 00:02:13,470 --> 00:02:15,240 and on your social media. 53 00:02:15,270 --> 00:02:18,090 Get all of the details and register today as 54 00:02:18,090 --> 00:02:20,700 speaking your brand.com/workshop. 55 00:02:20,730 --> 00:02:21,660 Again, that's speaking your 56 00:02:21,660 --> 00:02:25,350 brand.com/workshop. Now let's get on with 57 00:02:25,350 --> 00:02:27,720 the show. Hi there and welcome to the 58 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:28,950 Speaking Your Brand podcast. 59 00:02:28,950 --> 00:02:30,390 I'm your host Carol Cox. 60 00:02:30,390 --> 00:02:33,720 Today we have back Tiffany Hawk who is my 61 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,640 book coach. But not just my book coach. 62 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:37,830 She's an amazing book coach to many, many 63 00:02:37,830 --> 00:02:39,930 other people out there who are working on 64 00:02:39,930 --> 00:02:42,450 developing their book idea, but even more 65 00:02:42,450 --> 00:02:45,180 importantly, developing their book proposal, 66 00:02:45,180 --> 00:02:47,280 which they're then going to use to find the 67 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,440 perfect agent for them so that they can get 68 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,900 a publisher and put their book out into the 69 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:54,270 world. We're going to talk today about how 70 00:02:54,270 --> 00:02:57,770 to know what is a great idea for a book how 71 00:02:57,770 --> 00:03:00,410 to Build Your Platform as an author, 72 00:03:00,410 --> 00:03:02,210 especially your speaking platform. 73 00:03:02,210 --> 00:03:03,860 If you are a speaker. 74 00:03:03,860 --> 00:03:06,140 How to go about building authority for 75 00:03:06,140 --> 00:03:08,330 yourself as an author, especially when 76 00:03:08,330 --> 00:03:10,130 you're doing that all important book 77 00:03:10,130 --> 00:03:12,110 proposal. But we're going to start out 78 00:03:12,140 --> 00:03:15,650 talking about Tiffany's journey from maybe 79 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,130 we could call it a reluctancy, to call 80 00:03:19,130 --> 00:03:22,400 herself a speaker, to now getting feedback 81 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,140 from the speaking engagements that she's 82 00:03:24,140 --> 00:03:26,600 been doing this year as an energetic and 83 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,370 charismatic speaker. 84 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,710 Tiffany, welcome back to the podcast. 85 00:03:30,980 --> 00:03:32,030 Tiffany Hawk: Thank you. Carol. 86 00:03:32,030 --> 00:03:35,510 Yes, definitely reluctant speaker for sure. 87 00:03:36,110 --> 00:03:39,620 Carol Cox: Well, I was so honored to have you attend our 88 00:03:39,620 --> 00:03:41,540 client retreat that we held earlier this 89 00:03:41,540 --> 00:03:43,730 year in February in Orlando, Florida. 90 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,520 You flew in to that and we had ten women 91 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,130 together for three days, where we did 92 00:03:49,130 --> 00:03:51,320 coaching and practicing on our stage. 93 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,480 And then we did filming on the third stage, 94 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,060 and we had known each other for a few years. 95 00:03:56,060 --> 00:03:58,450 I had hired you to help me work on my book 96 00:03:58,450 --> 00:04:00,370 idea. I'm in your book proposal group 97 00:04:00,370 --> 00:04:02,170 program right now, which is fantastic. 98 00:04:02,170 --> 00:04:03,610 I can't recommend it enough. 99 00:04:03,610 --> 00:04:05,980 And then you decided to come to this 100 00:04:06,010 --> 00:04:09,010 in-person retreat, even though you have told 101 00:04:09,010 --> 00:04:10,360 me that you're not a speaker. 102 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,100 So why did you decide to come? 103 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,160 Tiffany Hawk: Oh my gosh. Yeah, this is so funny to me 104 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:16,840 because you come to me, Carol. 105 00:04:16,870 --> 00:04:18,580 Like I'm not a writer. 106 00:04:18,610 --> 00:04:21,340 Even though you're writing these amazing 107 00:04:21,340 --> 00:04:23,140 speeches and you have all of the 108 00:04:23,140 --> 00:04:25,120 storytelling skills. And then I've been 109 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,340 teaching for years, but I come to you like I 110 00:04:27,370 --> 00:04:29,860 am not a speaker, and I would still almost 111 00:04:29,860 --> 00:04:32,050 say that it's really hard to kind of embrace 112 00:04:32,050 --> 00:04:35,800 that. But part of why mostly it was just 113 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,110 really intuitive. I had this feeling like I 114 00:04:38,110 --> 00:04:40,960 need to go to Carol's retreat eventually. 115 00:04:40,990 --> 00:04:42,970 Like when I have, you know, I wanted to be 116 00:04:42,970 --> 00:04:45,160 in person more. That was a big part of it. 117 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,380 And then we were emailing and I said 118 00:04:47,380 --> 00:04:49,690 something about like, next year I'll do that 119 00:04:49,690 --> 00:04:51,520 because I don't have a talk prepared. 120 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,410 And then you convince me, no, you can come 121 00:04:53,410 --> 00:04:54,880 here without your talk prepared. 122 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,780 You only need a few segments. 123 00:04:56,780 --> 00:04:59,270 And I just instantly said, okay, I'm doing 124 00:04:59,270 --> 00:05:02,060 it. And it was just a complete moment of 125 00:05:02,060 --> 00:05:03,710 intuition. I had no idea what I was going to 126 00:05:03,710 --> 00:05:05,570 talk about, what I was getting myself into, 127 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,250 but I just pulled the trigger and signed up. 128 00:05:07,250 --> 00:05:09,290 And it was, you say, ten women. 129 00:05:09,290 --> 00:05:11,570 It was ten amazing women. 130 00:05:11,570 --> 00:05:13,760 Like, I could not believe the strength of 131 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,080 this group and the warmth. 132 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,030 And it was it was just really, really 133 00:05:17,030 --> 00:05:19,190 incredible. But I keep telling people, you 134 00:05:19,220 --> 00:05:20,930 hear me say this because you're in my class 135 00:05:20,930 --> 00:05:22,910 and I'm not going to sound like you paid me 136 00:05:22,910 --> 00:05:26,270 or something, but it was truly a life 137 00:05:26,300 --> 00:05:30,950 changing retreat for me because, you know, I 138 00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:34,790 think in a number of ways because it even 139 00:05:34,790 --> 00:05:36,500 helped my writing, because I think if 140 00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:39,230 there's something that you're afraid to say 141 00:05:39,260 --> 00:05:41,450 or you're afraid to say in front of a big 142 00:05:41,450 --> 00:05:43,580 enough audience, that's going to show up on 143 00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:45,410 the page, and it's going to show up in other 144 00:05:45,410 --> 00:05:46,550 parts of your life. 145 00:05:46,550 --> 00:05:49,400 So going there, I was just kind of hoping, 146 00:05:49,430 --> 00:05:51,800 like anyone, like a couple going to therapy 147 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,390 or something for some tips and tricks and 148 00:05:53,390 --> 00:05:55,240 maybe you know, a little bit of footage or 149 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,550 something. But being in that group and 150 00:05:57,550 --> 00:06:00,610 getting up on the stage over and over and 151 00:06:00,610 --> 00:06:02,950 over and getting comfortable with that warm 152 00:06:02,980 --> 00:06:06,100 audience, learning how to kind of command 153 00:06:06,100 --> 00:06:08,770 the stage and use body language like 154 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,110 deliberately, instead of either just 155 00:06:11,110 --> 00:06:12,760 standing there behind the podium like I 156 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,830 probably would normally do, or, you know, 157 00:06:14,860 --> 00:06:18,010 just kind of frantically pacing or using my 158 00:06:18,010 --> 00:06:20,860 hands, not deliberately getting comfortable 159 00:06:20,860 --> 00:06:22,900 with that. It was so much more natural than 160 00:06:22,900 --> 00:06:24,250 I thought it would be. 161 00:06:24,250 --> 00:06:29,230 And then I don't know how one weekend could 162 00:06:29,230 --> 00:06:31,750 do this, but I left there with so much more 163 00:06:31,750 --> 00:06:34,030 comfort and so much more confidence, because 164 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:37,390 before that, I mean, I was like heart 165 00:06:37,420 --> 00:06:40,660 pounding in my chest, in my ears, not able 166 00:06:40,660 --> 00:06:42,370 to think. So. All the stuff that I would 167 00:06:42,370 --> 00:06:45,460 want to say, the people wanted to hear from 168 00:06:45,460 --> 00:06:47,440 me until I got comfortable with that group, 169 00:06:47,470 --> 00:06:49,300 like if it was a group of students, I just 170 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:51,400 would lose track of what I was thinking and 171 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,900 magically like once you have that comfort in 172 00:06:54,900 --> 00:06:57,990 yourself and your strength, I'm not going to 173 00:06:57,990 --> 00:07:00,000 say I don't get nervous. I definitely still 174 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,820 do, but not to the point where I can't think 175 00:07:02,820 --> 00:07:04,350 and I can't impart my message. 176 00:07:04,350 --> 00:07:07,470 So for a book person who's we consider 177 00:07:07,470 --> 00:07:09,810 ourselves very introverted. 178 00:07:10,020 --> 00:07:13,020 I really, really recommend doing something 179 00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:14,370 like that. I mean, you guys put us through 180 00:07:14,370 --> 00:07:16,650 all that improv too, which, my God, there is 181 00:07:16,650 --> 00:07:19,980 nothing a book person would hate more than 182 00:07:20,010 --> 00:07:21,870 doing the improv. And I was terrible at 183 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:24,390 that. But I mean, legitimately, I'm not 184 00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:25,860 putting myself down like that was 185 00:07:25,860 --> 00:07:28,170 ridiculous. Some people were just like, so 186 00:07:28,170 --> 00:07:31,800 great at it. Um, but all of that just doing 187 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,510 it, you know, like anything, you get 188 00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:34,980 comfortable by doing it. 189 00:07:35,250 --> 00:07:37,800 Carol Cox: Well, Tiffany, I am I'm so glad to hear this. 190 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,710 And you were so naturally funny in the 191 00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:43,440 stories that you told as part of the talk 192 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,270 segments that you were working on at the 193 00:07:45,270 --> 00:07:47,100 retreat. Like, you have this natural sense 194 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:49,320 of humor that really came across. 195 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:50,850 And of course, you're great at storytelling 196 00:07:50,850 --> 00:07:53,240 because that's what you do in your writing 197 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,030 as well. And, you know, thinking about being 198 00:07:56,030 --> 00:07:58,100 an introvert. And I know we've talked about 199 00:07:58,100 --> 00:08:00,380 this, uh, you know, in your book proposal 200 00:08:00,410 --> 00:08:03,170 Group program is that many authors, because 201 00:08:03,170 --> 00:08:05,150 we probably like to read, consider ourselves 202 00:08:05,150 --> 00:08:07,850 to be introverts. I consider myself to be an 203 00:08:07,850 --> 00:08:10,520 introvert. Yes, I really do. 204 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,000 And so and so for me, it's like I, you know, 205 00:08:14,030 --> 00:08:16,220 I enjoy speaking because it's a way for me 206 00:08:16,220 --> 00:08:19,160 to share a message with more people, but 207 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,350 it's almost like it's also a way for me to 208 00:08:21,350 --> 00:08:24,020 have a role at an event where I don't feel 209 00:08:24,020 --> 00:08:25,970 like I'm just kind of like, I don't know, 210 00:08:25,970 --> 00:08:27,440 what am I doing here? Who am I supposed to 211 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:28,850 talk to? What am I supposed to do? 212 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,100 Like, it gives me a place and a role as an 213 00:08:31,100 --> 00:08:32,810 introvert that makes me feel so much better. 214 00:08:32,810 --> 00:08:34,910 But then the other thing is about improv. 215 00:08:34,910 --> 00:08:38,420 So I'm terrible at improv, right? 216 00:08:38,420 --> 00:08:40,640 I'm a reader. I'm an introvert, I totally 217 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,620 relate, but this is why I do it. 218 00:08:42,620 --> 00:08:44,570 I force myself to do it, and I force you all 219 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,720 to do it because it makes such a difference 220 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,610 in that. All right, so, Tiffany, you came to 221 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,490 the retreat in February, and then you had a 222 00:08:51,490 --> 00:08:54,250 pretty high profile workshop that you were 223 00:08:54,250 --> 00:08:57,160 facilitating not long after that, a couple 224 00:08:57,190 --> 00:08:59,620 of months after that, and you gave you sent 225 00:08:59,620 --> 00:09:01,720 me some of the feedback that you got from 226 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,270 the attendees of that workshop, and you were 227 00:09:04,270 --> 00:09:07,000 very pleasantly surprised about some of that 228 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,710 feedback. And but I was not. 229 00:09:08,740 --> 00:09:11,170 I knew that that's probably I wouldn't be 230 00:09:11,170 --> 00:09:11,740 surprised. 231 00:09:11,740 --> 00:09:13,660 Tiffany Hawk: I was shocked, it was literally I think it 232 00:09:13,660 --> 00:09:16,090 was three weeks later, something like that. 233 00:09:16,090 --> 00:09:18,490 It was it was I think it was still in 234 00:09:18,490 --> 00:09:20,200 February, if I'd have to look back and 235 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,240 check. But it was very, very shortly after 236 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,180 that and I really enjoyed it. 237 00:09:25,210 --> 00:09:26,770 Like, I'm not going to lie, I left the 238 00:09:26,770 --> 00:09:28,810 retreat. Most of the women there left being 239 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,160 like, I want to do this for the rest of my 240 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,110 life. I love speaking and I left going, 241 00:09:32,110 --> 00:09:34,000 well, that was great. That was life changing 242 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,710 and I never want to do that again. 243 00:09:35,740 --> 00:09:38,560 I just, you know, I was just so nervous up 244 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:40,480 on stage. But then I took that. 245 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:41,800 So I was teaching at Stanford. 246 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,700 So I went there and I was with people who 247 00:09:45,730 --> 00:09:47,590 were there to hear what I had to say. 248 00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:49,440 So it was like a different kind of audience 249 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,630 that was really interested in books, and I 250 00:09:51,630 --> 00:09:53,940 had that comfort walking around and talking 251 00:09:53,940 --> 00:09:55,680 whatever, and I was shocked by the feedback. 252 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:57,480 I was hoping to hold my own, and that was 253 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,190 part of why I was glad I had the retreat 254 00:09:59,190 --> 00:10:01,920 first. But people's reviews were like 255 00:10:01,950 --> 00:10:03,540 anonymous reviews, and they were saying I 256 00:10:03,540 --> 00:10:06,180 was a gifted speaker and charismatic, and 257 00:10:06,180 --> 00:10:08,580 I'm like, okay, I have never heard that 258 00:10:08,580 --> 00:10:09,930 before in my life. 259 00:10:09,930 --> 00:10:12,420 So it was pretty cool to tap into just 260 00:10:12,420 --> 00:10:14,790 figuring out what makes you what your 261 00:10:14,790 --> 00:10:18,510 strengths are and how to how to use that in 262 00:10:18,510 --> 00:10:20,160 a way that's comfortable for you, rather 263 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,110 than trying to be the way someone else 264 00:10:22,110 --> 00:10:24,240 might. And it also didn't require me to be 265 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,930 totally rehearsed, which, you know, I still 266 00:10:27,930 --> 00:10:31,800 I don't think I would be as good at the big 267 00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:33,060 20 minute Ted talk. 268 00:10:33,090 --> 00:10:34,890 I think I would really need to work up to 269 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,420 getting comfortable to something that was 270 00:10:36,420 --> 00:10:38,550 that long, but it was somewhat more 271 00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:40,560 conversational where I would be talking for 272 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:42,000 a while, and then people would be asking 273 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,830 questions and back and forth and be able to 274 00:10:43,860 --> 00:10:45,690 really get the audience engaged. 275 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,580 So yeah, thank you for that. 276 00:10:47,610 --> 00:10:48,860 Carol Cox: Okay well. Challenge accepted. 277 00:10:48,860 --> 00:10:50,360 We'll get you there to. 278 00:10:51,470 --> 00:10:52,640 Tiffany Hawk: Oh, maybe. No, no. 279 00:10:52,670 --> 00:10:55,580 Yeah, we will, we will, we will believe it. 280 00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:57,680 I'm getting more and more comfortable all 281 00:10:57,680 --> 00:10:58,700 the time, so thank you. 282 00:10:58,730 --> 00:10:59,840 Yeah. We'll get there. 283 00:11:00,050 --> 00:11:03,110 Carol Cox: All right Tiffany. So thinking thinking about 284 00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:06,080 leveraging our strengths and kind of in, you 285 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:07,940 know amplifying what we're already good at. 286 00:11:07,940 --> 00:11:09,740 And a lot of that has to do with our 287 00:11:09,740 --> 00:11:12,350 communication style but also our voice. 288 00:11:12,350 --> 00:11:14,060 So not just not I don't mean our physical 289 00:11:14,060 --> 00:11:15,650 voice, but our voice in the sense of our 290 00:11:15,650 --> 00:11:18,680 perspective, our angle, what we want to say 291 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:21,380 on our topic. So let's talk about what makes 292 00:11:21,380 --> 00:11:23,720 a good idea for a book, because obviously 293 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,960 books and speaking go very well together. 294 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,080 And so but obviously with the signature talk 295 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,350 or a keynote or even a Ted talk, it's short, 296 00:11:33,380 --> 00:11:35,750 right? Ten minutes, maybe 45 minutes, maybe 297 00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:37,550 an hour. There's only so many words you can 298 00:11:37,550 --> 00:11:41,870 fit in that. But a book 200 pages, 250, 300 299 00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:43,580 pages, it's a lot. It's a lot more than a 300 00:11:43,580 --> 00:11:46,220 talk. So how do you know what is a big 301 00:11:46,220 --> 00:11:48,610 enough idea and a good idea for a book. 302 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:50,860 Tiffany Hawk: Oh yeah, that's such a good question. 303 00:11:50,860 --> 00:11:53,800 And I actually want to back up from the idea 304 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,490 for a second, um, because, well, some of the 305 00:11:57,490 --> 00:11:59,530 reasons that or some of the questions that a 306 00:11:59,530 --> 00:12:01,660 publisher is going to ask you or a literary 307 00:12:01,690 --> 00:12:04,900 agent are going to be, why this book? 308 00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:07,660 Why you and why now? 309 00:12:07,660 --> 00:12:09,580 And so that's something I do want to come 310 00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:12,130 back to. But I think before we even get 311 00:12:12,130 --> 00:12:14,170 there into that specific idea and how to 312 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,690 market it, there's another why that Simon 313 00:12:16,690 --> 00:12:19,000 Sinek kind of why that's way more important. 314 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,250 And that's your intention, your reason for 315 00:12:21,250 --> 00:12:23,740 writing this book. Because especially when 316 00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:25,390 I'm talking to entrepreneurs, a lot of 317 00:12:25,390 --> 00:12:28,690 people come to it, um, like, I want to write 318 00:12:28,690 --> 00:12:29,920 a book and I don't know if I should. 319 00:12:29,950 --> 00:12:32,590 And so if their reason is because they can't 320 00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:34,540 stop talking about this topic, it's so 321 00:12:34,540 --> 00:12:36,490 important to them. They find it meaningful. 322 00:12:36,490 --> 00:12:37,780 There's an audience they can help. 323 00:12:37,780 --> 00:12:39,070 We can take that all the way to the 324 00:12:39,070 --> 00:12:41,110 bookstore. But if they're like, well, I 325 00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:42,160 should do this. 326 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,290 People are telling me this is a good way to 327 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,620 market my business or you know, it's time. 328 00:12:46,620 --> 00:12:49,710 And I don't feel like, you know, I'm a real 329 00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:51,210 thought leader until I have a book. 330 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,370 That is not a good reason to write a book 331 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,240 yet at least should is the worst reason to 332 00:12:57,270 --> 00:12:58,740 write a book. And I have actually done that. 333 00:12:58,740 --> 00:13:01,110 So personal experience with that not working 334 00:13:01,110 --> 00:13:05,160 out. Um, but once you have that reason 335 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:06,600 that's bigger than that, because you are 336 00:13:06,630 --> 00:13:09,300 going to be spending maybe two years working 337 00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:11,520 on this, even if you like, if you've already 338 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,620 got your book today and you get a literary 339 00:13:13,620 --> 00:13:15,630 agent tomorrow and they magically are able 340 00:13:15,630 --> 00:13:17,580 to sell it three days later, the book isn't 341 00:13:17,580 --> 00:13:19,710 going to hit the shelves for probably 18 342 00:13:19,710 --> 00:13:20,790 months at least. 343 00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:22,860 So this is something you're going to be 344 00:13:22,860 --> 00:13:24,690 living with in terms of the writing and the 345 00:13:24,690 --> 00:13:27,420 editing and then the promoting for years. 346 00:13:27,420 --> 00:13:29,040 So you really, really do have to care about 347 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,600 it. The second thing is that's what's going 348 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,790 to help make the book stand out, because, 349 00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:35,010 okay, so we had talked about this, someone 350 00:13:35,010 --> 00:13:36,870 we both know had come to me wanting to write 351 00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:39,570 a book and had two different ideas, both of 352 00:13:39,570 --> 00:13:41,490 which were cool. One I was more drawn to, 353 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,530 but she wanted to hire me to help her with 354 00:13:44,530 --> 00:13:46,600 the first one that she was determined to do 355 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,640 because she could write it in her sleep that 356 00:13:48,670 --> 00:13:50,110 like, let's just knock it out and get it out 357 00:13:50,110 --> 00:13:51,400 of the way. And I didn't work with her 358 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,110 because I was like, if you're if you can 359 00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:54,880 write this in your sleep, you're going to 360 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,200 put your reader to sleep. 361 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,750 So having that thing that you can really put 362 00:13:58,750 --> 00:14:02,260 your enthusiasm behind is going to matter to 363 00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:04,900 the reader. So then we want to look at, 364 00:14:04,900 --> 00:14:07,450 okay, how do we make this idea something 365 00:14:07,450 --> 00:14:09,520 that's, you know, I don't say worthy of a 366 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,500 book in terms like you're worthy of saying 367 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:14,800 what you need to say, but fitted for a book. 368 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,870 So one of the things that you really want to 369 00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:19,600 do to explain to an agent or publisher why 370 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,880 this book, their first why, is to really 371 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,400 start to understand the market, look at what 372 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,130 are the other books on your topic so that 373 00:14:27,130 --> 00:14:29,740 then you can start to, you know, first 374 00:14:29,740 --> 00:14:31,240 understand the industry and what's out 375 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,770 there, but start to notice what makes you 376 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,870 different and what makes you stand out. 377 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:36,490 Now, of course, it's completely normal. 378 00:14:36,490 --> 00:14:37,870 The first thing you're going to do is freak 379 00:14:37,870 --> 00:14:39,280 out and go, oh my gosh, it's already all 380 00:14:39,310 --> 00:14:42,280 been said before. And that it's like major 381 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,370 imposter syndrome because this is their idea 382 00:14:44,370 --> 00:14:46,590 that's been distilled for years with the 383 00:14:46,590 --> 00:14:47,790 help of their publisher and all the 384 00:14:47,790 --> 00:14:49,350 publicity and everything. So you don't 385 00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:52,230 compare your first draft to their published 386 00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:54,120 book that's already out there, but start to 387 00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:57,330 notice, like the tone, the audience, their 388 00:14:57,330 --> 00:15:00,300 take. What can you add to this conversation? 389 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:01,980 What do you have that's different? 390 00:15:01,980 --> 00:15:03,630 That might be that you're taking a familiar 391 00:15:03,660 --> 00:15:05,370 topic and bringing it to a brand new 392 00:15:05,370 --> 00:15:07,170 audience that's been overlooked. 393 00:15:07,170 --> 00:15:10,170 Or maybe it's a topic that's been written 394 00:15:10,170 --> 00:15:13,260 about very, you know, dense and academic in 395 00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:15,030 terms of tone and content, and you can make 396 00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:17,970 it accessible or funny, or maybe you're 397 00:15:17,970 --> 00:15:20,430 tackling something that everybody kind of 398 00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:22,530 knows the same advice, and you want to turn 399 00:15:22,530 --> 00:15:24,960 it on your head and, you know, think of it 400 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,370 from a completely different way. 401 00:15:26,370 --> 00:15:27,990 Either the problem or the solution is 402 00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:29,220 different than what we're thinking of. 403 00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:32,040 That's actually a really great, great topic 404 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:33,390 for a book is when you can make it 405 00:15:33,420 --> 00:15:34,590 counterintuitive like that. 406 00:15:34,590 --> 00:15:37,620 And then, like you said, it has to be big 407 00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:39,510 enough and broad enough for an entire book. 408 00:15:39,540 --> 00:15:41,670 You might be able to figure that out by if 409 00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:44,120 you give a 20 minute talk and you're that 410 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,770 you've exhausted everything you have to say, 411 00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:46,970 well, it's not quite there yet. 412 00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:48,320 You're going to have to kind of keep 413 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,000 developing your material because it's going 414 00:15:50,030 --> 00:15:51,500 to take hours and hours and hours for 415 00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:53,430 someone to read a book, as opposed to 20 416 00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:55,610 minutes. You might start with an article and 417 00:15:55,610 --> 00:15:57,200 see how that's received. 418 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,960 And that also can help build your platform. 419 00:15:59,990 --> 00:16:03,230 Um, so then you also want to be able to say 420 00:16:03,230 --> 00:16:04,550 why now? 421 00:16:04,580 --> 00:16:07,220 Like, why is this important to people now? 422 00:16:07,220 --> 00:16:08,930 How is this different? How is it fresh? 423 00:16:08,930 --> 00:16:11,030 How is it moving the conversation from where 424 00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:13,310 it is now forward? 425 00:16:14,660 --> 00:16:15,110 Carol Cox: Okay. 426 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,030 Tiffany Hawk: Winded answers. 427 00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:18,830 Carol Cox: No, this is this was so helpful. 428 00:16:18,830 --> 00:16:21,560 So I have lots of questions and I know the 429 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,390 listeners are taking notes on this. 430 00:16:23,390 --> 00:16:26,420 So you mentioned about if you feel like you 431 00:16:26,420 --> 00:16:28,580 can write your book in your sleep, it's 432 00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:31,220 probably not the right book to write because 433 00:16:31,220 --> 00:16:32,570 you may put your reader to sleep. 434 00:16:32,570 --> 00:16:33,770 So here's what comes to mind. 435 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,960 And please, I would love to hear your 436 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,020 thoughts on this or to change, change, or 437 00:16:39,020 --> 00:16:40,070 correct what I'm saying. 438 00:16:40,070 --> 00:16:42,430 So it sounds to me like, you know, you 439 00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:43,870 you're going to have a premise for your book 440 00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:45,400 idea. It could be based on speaking 441 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,560 engagements that you've been doing or some 442 00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:49,000 or the work that you've been doing in your 443 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,590 business or career. So you have this sense 444 00:16:50,590 --> 00:16:52,180 of what your idea is. 445 00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:53,980 Maybe it's counterintuitive, like you said, 446 00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:55,210 maybe it's to a different audience that 447 00:16:55,210 --> 00:16:57,670 hasn't been served with this similar message 448 00:16:57,670 --> 00:17:01,060 before. It sounds to me, though, that if you 449 00:17:01,060 --> 00:17:04,360 in your your own mind, already know all the 450 00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:07,210 answers that you would put in the book, 451 00:17:07,210 --> 00:17:10,030 maybe there's not enough in there to spark 452 00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:12,220 your curiosity as the writer. 453 00:17:12,430 --> 00:17:12,910 Tiffany Hawk: Yeah. 454 00:17:12,940 --> 00:17:16,660 Carol Cox: To like to dig almost deeper into yourself, 455 00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:20,050 to find more like to write, to find those 456 00:17:20,050 --> 00:17:21,940 deeper nuggets to put into the book. 457 00:17:21,940 --> 00:17:23,860 Because if if I feel like I could just write 458 00:17:23,860 --> 00:17:26,110 the book in my sleep, then I don't know. 459 00:17:26,110 --> 00:17:27,550 I guess I feel like maybe it's too 460 00:17:27,550 --> 00:17:28,750 superficial. 461 00:17:30,610 --> 00:17:32,680 Tiffany Hawk: Possibly. I mean, yeah, I think that's 462 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:33,700 really, really interesting. 463 00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:35,860 I do think, though, that sometimes you might 464 00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:37,780 feel like you know your topic, but at least 465 00:17:37,780 --> 00:17:39,520 you're excited and you know that you don't 466 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,040 know what it is, but you know that there's 467 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,960 more. There's something more that you're 468 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:44,460 going to have to delve into because, you 469 00:17:44,460 --> 00:17:45,960 know, people don't want to only hear your 470 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,060 perspective. Even if it's a memoir, you're 471 00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:49,530 probably going to be doing some research to 472 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,380 be able to add context about the time you're 473 00:17:52,380 --> 00:17:53,520 writing about. You're going to have to go 474 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,080 back and look at things. So there's probably 475 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,960 going to be some research involved and also 476 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,420 some if you, you know where you're going 477 00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:02,700 with it. But right now it's only somewhat of 478 00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:05,100 a vague idea as you work on each piece of 479 00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:07,200 your proposal or as you start writing the 480 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:08,760 book, things are going to come up. 481 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,190 And almost always with a project this long, 482 00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:12,870 you're going to reach a point where you go, 483 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:14,250 oh my God, I can't do this. 484 00:18:14,250 --> 00:18:15,690 I don't know what I'm doing. This is so 485 00:18:15,690 --> 00:18:17,220 complicated. As soon as I start to talk 486 00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:18,750 about this, it brings up that, and I don't 487 00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:20,670 know where to go. That's a good thing. 488 00:18:20,670 --> 00:18:21,840 It it won't feel like it. 489 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,340 It'll feel horrible and terrible and you'll 490 00:18:23,340 --> 00:18:24,990 want to give up. But as long as you know not 491 00:18:24,990 --> 00:18:26,940 to give up because that's part of it, you 492 00:18:26,940 --> 00:18:28,740 actually start rethinking your material. 493 00:18:28,740 --> 00:18:30,270 And as you're writing your book, you're 494 00:18:30,270 --> 00:18:31,830 developing your thought leadership. 495 00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:33,690 You're further developing that message, and 496 00:18:33,690 --> 00:18:35,520 it's usually going to change, and you're 497 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,380 going to have to go back and start to revise 498 00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:40,610 what you've already written or what your 499 00:18:40,610 --> 00:18:42,110 plan was, and that's when you know you're 500 00:18:42,110 --> 00:18:43,460 really digging into something special. 501 00:18:43,490 --> 00:18:45,890 Because, yeah, it's not just you're exactly 502 00:18:45,890 --> 00:18:48,530 right, Carol. Because if you're if you know 503 00:18:48,530 --> 00:18:49,850 everything that's in there, you're saying 504 00:18:49,850 --> 00:18:51,320 stuff that's been said before. 505 00:18:51,530 --> 00:18:53,510 So if there's no element of surprise for 506 00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:56,120 you, it's probably not that original. 507 00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:57,740 It's something that at the very least, 508 00:18:57,740 --> 00:18:59,210 you've been saying over and over. 509 00:18:59,210 --> 00:19:01,430 So that means other people probably have as 510 00:19:01,430 --> 00:19:02,090 well. 511 00:19:02,540 --> 00:19:03,800 Carol Cox: Oh, that is so good. 512 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,660 That's like a juicy little nugget right 513 00:19:05,660 --> 00:19:06,740 there, you know. 514 00:19:06,830 --> 00:19:09,560 Tiffany Hawk: Cool. Well, you know, and I was actually 515 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,510 speaking this last weekend. 516 00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:13,610 And because I get to do it again and again 517 00:19:13,610 --> 00:19:15,800 now that I've had your help, but I was on a 518 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,540 panel with a couple of other authors, and 519 00:19:17,540 --> 00:19:19,520 one of them really brought up a great point, 520 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,620 and that we all had agreed people were 521 00:19:21,620 --> 00:19:22,970 asking about like how to start, and 522 00:19:22,970 --> 00:19:24,830 sometimes it's just a matter of starting. 523 00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:26,420 It doesn't matter what, it doesn't matter if 524 00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:28,490 it's terrible, but you just need to start 525 00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:30,800 with some kind of material, no matter how 526 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,690 bad it is, because it's a lot easier to 527 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,000 revise and to rewrite than it is to just 528 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,440 come up with that initial thing. 529 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,740 But one of the authors who's incredibly, 530 00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:41,260 incredibly well known was saying that he 531 00:19:41,260 --> 00:19:43,600 just knows going into that first chapter, 532 00:19:43,630 --> 00:19:45,640 those first things he writes 100% of the 533 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,860 time in all of his books, ends up being 534 00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:49,810 completely different. By the time he reaches 535 00:19:49,810 --> 00:19:51,640 the end of the book, he's so much better 536 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,560 understands what he's saying that that first 537 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,570 chapter is always going to get revised. 538 00:19:55,570 --> 00:19:58,390 So you really don't want to have pressure on 539 00:19:58,420 --> 00:20:00,730 that first chapter, because you just one 540 00:20:00,730 --> 00:20:02,500 need to get on the page so you can work with 541 00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:05,710 it. And then two, as you keep going, even 542 00:20:05,710 --> 00:20:07,390 the proposal process, even when you haven't 543 00:20:07,390 --> 00:20:08,410 written the whole book, you're going to 544 00:20:08,410 --> 00:20:09,850 understand it so much better. 545 00:20:09,850 --> 00:20:11,860 As you go through each piece, you're going 546 00:20:11,890 --> 00:20:13,150 to go back to the beginning again. 547 00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:15,430 And knowing that, I think can be freeing. 548 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,410 Carol Cox: Yes, that really helps a lot. 549 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,570 Tiffany. Yeah, knowing that whatever you're 550 00:20:19,570 --> 00:20:22,000 putting down on the page is certainly not in 551 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,950 its final form. Eventually we'll get to a 552 00:20:23,950 --> 00:20:25,540 final form and we have to be willing to let 553 00:20:25,540 --> 00:20:26,830 it go at that point. 554 00:20:26,860 --> 00:20:29,650 Yeah, and not like the perfectionism, uh, 555 00:20:29,950 --> 00:20:32,230 paralyze us too much, but I that is so 556 00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:34,420 helpful to think. Okay, remind yourself as 557 00:20:34,420 --> 00:20:35,800 you're writing, like, where you're going to 558 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:36,960 come back and edit this. You don't need to 559 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,010 do it right now. 560 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,330 It will. It will happen. 561 00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:40,860 So don't feel like it has to be perfect 562 00:20:40,860 --> 00:20:42,390 coming out. And I'm giving myself this my 563 00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:43,260 own advice. 564 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,240 Tiffany Hawk: Yeah. Knowing it's going to change. 565 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,970 I think very rarely, but occasionally someone 566 00:20:47,970 --> 00:20:50,010 knows exactly what the start of their book 567 00:20:50,010 --> 00:20:51,720 is, whether it's fiction or non-fiction or 568 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,510 anything. It's exactly right in the first 569 00:20:54,510 --> 00:20:56,310 chapter because they just know that scene. 570 00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:57,990 That was the whole kernel of the book, their 571 00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:59,460 whole wire intention. 572 00:20:59,460 --> 00:21:03,000 But most of the time, what you if you were 573 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,040 to start out and then just polish it and 574 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,630 never change the first chapter, you probably 575 00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:09,750 didn't grow and develop that idea very much 576 00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:10,830 as you were writing it. 577 00:21:10,830 --> 00:21:13,890 So maybe that's more often than not a sign 578 00:21:13,890 --> 00:21:15,810 that you didn't. 579 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,130 You didn't go deep enough. 580 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,690 You didn't push yourself hard enough. 581 00:21:18,690 --> 00:21:20,400 Something I've been telling you, actually, 582 00:21:20,430 --> 00:21:22,860 like yours is great, and there are parts 583 00:21:22,860 --> 00:21:26,820 where you are going back to relying on that 584 00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:28,590 expert thing. So I'm saying, Carol, we need 585 00:21:28,590 --> 00:21:30,300 to make this more Carol. We need to push, 586 00:21:30,330 --> 00:21:31,740 make it bolder, make it more. 587 00:21:31,770 --> 00:21:32,940 You know? Anyway, I'm sorry. 588 00:21:32,940 --> 00:21:34,660 I'm, like, calling you out on your own 589 00:21:34,660 --> 00:21:35,500 podcast. 590 00:21:35,530 --> 00:21:37,540 Carol Cox: I. This is why I do this publicly. 591 00:21:37,540 --> 00:21:38,980 Because I have to be called out and I have 592 00:21:38,980 --> 00:21:41,410 to be reminded. And this is why I work with 593 00:21:41,410 --> 00:21:43,600 you, Tiffany. Because to remind me of this 594 00:21:43,630 --> 00:21:45,460 and, you know, and you mentioned about 595 00:21:45,460 --> 00:21:47,230 coming back to the opening of the book. 596 00:21:47,260 --> 00:21:48,580 And I think about when we work with our 597 00:21:48,580 --> 00:21:51,460 clients on their talks, we do the opening 598 00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:53,050 last. Yeah. 599 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,270 Because I don't know, at the beginning of 600 00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:57,070 our work together what that opening is going 601 00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:59,290 to be for them. I have to fill out all the 602 00:21:59,290 --> 00:22:01,600 rest of the talk on the board and figure 603 00:22:01,630 --> 00:22:02,860 out, okay, now what's going to be 604 00:22:02,860 --> 00:22:04,660 interesting for the audience to bring them 605 00:22:04,660 --> 00:22:06,550 in based on everything else we've just laid 606 00:22:06,550 --> 00:22:09,100 out. So it's the same process? 607 00:22:09,130 --> 00:22:12,070 Tiffany Hawk: Yes. And unfortunately, at least when you're 608 00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:13,630 working on a book proposal, you're usually 609 00:22:13,630 --> 00:22:15,250 at least going to start trying to write that 610 00:22:15,250 --> 00:22:17,440 first chapter. But hopefully when you come 611 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,420 back to it after writing, you know the rest 612 00:22:19,420 --> 00:22:20,590 of it anyway. 613 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,000 Carol Cox: Well, let's talk about how authors and 614 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,560 speakers can build their platform. 615 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,300 So I know that, Tiffany, obviously you work 616 00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:30,490 with a lot of authors and not that many some 617 00:22:30,490 --> 00:22:32,710 of them have done speaking before or have 618 00:22:32,740 --> 00:22:34,180 their own podcast or have I've been doing 619 00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:36,160 podcast interviews and they've been building 620 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:37,570 their platform that way. 621 00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:39,160 I know a lot of the authors that you work 622 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,500 with have not been doing much speaking. 623 00:22:41,530 --> 00:22:43,810 What do you recommend as far as what are 624 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,450 agents and and editors and potentially 625 00:22:46,450 --> 00:22:48,580 publishers? What are they looking for? 626 00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:50,890 But even just for authors who know that when 627 00:22:50,890 --> 00:22:52,270 their book comes out, maybe they're going to 628 00:22:52,270 --> 00:22:54,490 do self-publishing or hybrid publishing, 629 00:22:54,490 --> 00:22:57,430 that they still want to go to bookstores and 630 00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:58,540 talk about what they're doing, or they still 631 00:22:58,540 --> 00:23:00,700 want to get exposure for their book. 632 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:02,830 Tiffany Hawk: Yeah. And I think that's actually an 633 00:23:02,830 --> 00:23:04,630 important distinction that you make or not 634 00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:06,370 distinction, but an important topic that you 635 00:23:06,370 --> 00:23:07,930 bring up the self-publishing versus 636 00:23:07,930 --> 00:23:08,950 traditional publishing. 637 00:23:08,950 --> 00:23:11,110 I think they can both be really, really 638 00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:13,300 great. But where I worry about 639 00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:16,090 self-publishing is when people bypass 640 00:23:16,090 --> 00:23:17,710 traditional publishing because they think 641 00:23:17,710 --> 00:23:19,390 self-publishing is going to be easier, and 642 00:23:19,390 --> 00:23:21,070 they just kind of put their book out there. 643 00:23:21,070 --> 00:23:25,180 So if we look at this as the reason that 644 00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:27,520 publishers want certain things from you, 645 00:23:27,550 --> 00:23:29,230 like that idea that's adding to the 646 00:23:29,230 --> 00:23:31,900 conversation and is fresh and new, and that 647 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:33,500 you have an audience, which I am going to 648 00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:35,510 come back to your question, but I wanted to 649 00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:36,830 address the self-publishing. 650 00:23:36,860 --> 00:23:39,680 If you aren't able to speak to those things 651 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,630 there, they want those because that's how 652 00:23:41,630 --> 00:23:42,740 they're going to reach readers. 653 00:23:42,740 --> 00:23:44,540 So if you don't put the thought and the 654 00:23:44,540 --> 00:23:47,060 effort into how you might be attractive to a 655 00:23:47,060 --> 00:23:48,590 traditional publisher, you're probably not 656 00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:50,510 going to be attractive to readers either, 657 00:23:50,510 --> 00:23:52,670 because you haven't clarified your idea. 658 00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:54,800 You haven't built your way to reach an 659 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,020 audience. So platform is something writers 660 00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:58,610 get really, really worried about because 661 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,400 again, we're shy, you know, book people that 662 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,140 aren't necessarily putting ourselves out 663 00:24:03,140 --> 00:24:05,630 there, but it is important. 664 00:24:05,630 --> 00:24:07,790 The biggest misconception, I think, that I 665 00:24:07,820 --> 00:24:10,310 hear over and over and over is that authors 666 00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:12,170 assume it has to be social media, and they 667 00:24:12,170 --> 00:24:14,240 have to have, you know, 6 million followers 668 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,100 on Instagram or TikTok or whatever it might 669 00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:19,130 be. 100% does not have to be social media. 670 00:24:19,130 --> 00:24:21,320 If you are good at that, that can be great. 671 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,660 But in most agents are telling me it's 672 00:24:23,690 --> 00:24:25,730 actually the least effective and the one 673 00:24:25,730 --> 00:24:27,080 that takes the most work. 674 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,580 So you definitely don't have to go there. 675 00:24:28,610 --> 00:24:31,480 There's other really, really more um, 676 00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:34,960 potentially authoritative and faster ways to 677 00:24:34,990 --> 00:24:37,060 build an audience. But you do need to have a 678 00:24:37,060 --> 00:24:38,830 way that people are going to hear about your 679 00:24:38,830 --> 00:24:41,980 book. So some of those are writing articles 680 00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:43,540 for publications, either well-known 681 00:24:43,540 --> 00:24:46,180 publications or those that are directly 682 00:24:46,180 --> 00:24:48,010 related to your audience, even if it's a 683 00:24:48,010 --> 00:24:49,750 little bit smaller. But it's the people 684 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:51,400 you're trying to reach are reading that. 685 00:24:51,670 --> 00:24:55,090 Um, podcasting can be great networking and 686 00:24:55,090 --> 00:24:57,430 getting blurbs from people in your industry. 687 00:24:57,430 --> 00:25:00,700 Those are all great speaking is at least 688 00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:03,130 it's probably tied for one and two with with 689 00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:06,130 articles for me. But, um, it's one of the 690 00:25:06,130 --> 00:25:08,680 best ways to build a platform because you're 691 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,630 getting in front of your audience, you're 692 00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:13,030 working that material with them, so you're 693 00:25:13,030 --> 00:25:14,860 understanding it and you're vetted. 694 00:25:14,890 --> 00:25:17,740 It's showing authority, that and 695 00:25:17,740 --> 00:25:19,210 credibility. So the two things that 696 00:25:19,210 --> 00:25:21,280 publishers are looking for with when we talk 697 00:25:21,310 --> 00:25:22,750 about platform one is that you have the 698 00:25:22,750 --> 00:25:24,820 credibility that people are going to want to 699 00:25:24,820 --> 00:25:26,680 read this book from your perspective. 700 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,110 And then two is that ability to reach an 701 00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:30,750 audience. So speaking is doing both of those 702 00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:34,110 things. You're going to be showing, um, that 703 00:25:34,110 --> 00:25:35,790 you've been chosen to speak at this 704 00:25:35,790 --> 00:25:37,710 organization. So you're kind of vetted as an 705 00:25:37,740 --> 00:25:41,310 authority. You are interacting with your 706 00:25:41,310 --> 00:25:43,380 material and your profession, especially if 707 00:25:43,380 --> 00:25:44,430 it's non-fiction. 708 00:25:44,430 --> 00:25:46,350 You're able to develop your material that 709 00:25:46,350 --> 00:25:47,850 way. And then the other thing, you're able 710 00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:50,370 to stand out from other writers because this 711 00:25:50,370 --> 00:25:56,580 is like clear, clear, um, sign that you know 712 00:25:56,580 --> 00:25:59,310 how to and are willing to get out there in a 713 00:25:59,310 --> 00:26:01,590 way that so many shy authors aren't. 714 00:26:01,590 --> 00:26:03,600 So it's a wonderful, wonderful way to do 715 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,220 that. Plus, they know that then you'll be 716 00:26:05,220 --> 00:26:07,350 able to sell books at your speaking 717 00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:08,670 engagements later. 718 00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:10,680 So that doesn't mean you have to be this 719 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,240 huge speaker, and you've been all over the 720 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,190 place and you've been speaking to thousands, 721 00:26:14,190 --> 00:26:16,290 or you have, you know, a million views of 722 00:26:16,290 --> 00:26:18,420 your Ted talk. Like, I know you have clients 723 00:26:18,420 --> 00:26:19,980 who have done, which is just awesome. 724 00:26:19,980 --> 00:26:22,710 But even if it's smaller, if you can show a 725 00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:26,190 few events, especially if they are directly 726 00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:28,140 getting you in front of your audience and 727 00:26:28,140 --> 00:26:29,640 people that are interested. 728 00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:32,100 And then you can say, okay, I've spoken at 729 00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:34,560 these three or whatever places, and here's 730 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,330 the other places I plan to pitch. 731 00:26:36,330 --> 00:26:39,750 And here's my, you know, speaker bio. 732 00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:42,000 That's going to go a long way to show that 733 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,650 credibility and that you're going to be 734 00:26:43,650 --> 00:26:45,150 putting yourself out there and that you know 735 00:26:45,150 --> 00:26:46,560 where to find your audience. 736 00:26:46,590 --> 00:26:48,660 Carol Cox: And I can imagine with the agents and the 737 00:26:48,660 --> 00:26:52,050 publishers that they're also seeing that you 738 00:26:52,050 --> 00:26:55,560 as an author, you're putting the work in to 739 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:56,700 build those relationships. 740 00:26:56,700 --> 00:26:58,920 And so then they can they can reassure 741 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,840 themselves, okay, this person is going to be 742 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,400 willing to go out there and speak because he 743 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:03,840 or she has already been doing it. 744 00:27:03,870 --> 00:27:06,330 Tiffany Hawk: Yeah, yeah, to publicize the book, but also 745 00:27:06,330 --> 00:27:07,890 that it's really hard to write a book for an 746 00:27:07,890 --> 00:27:09,750 industry that you're not interacting in. 747 00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:11,370 Like, who's going to want to hear from you 748 00:27:11,370 --> 00:27:12,870 if you're not part of it? 749 00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:15,060 So speaking is a really great way to be part 750 00:27:15,060 --> 00:27:16,650 of it. It's not the only way by any means, 751 00:27:16,650 --> 00:27:18,960 but it's an excellent way to do it and it 752 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,250 builds your network as well. 753 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,110 Like you said, when you're there. 754 00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:23,550 Carol Cox: Well, thinking about it from the speaker 755 00:27:23,550 --> 00:27:25,140 point of view. So for those of you listening 756 00:27:25,140 --> 00:27:27,240 who are doing speaking but don't yet have a 757 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,530 book and you are thinking about having a 758 00:27:29,530 --> 00:27:32,620 book. I can say from looking at clients that 759 00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:34,780 we've had that clients who already have 760 00:27:34,810 --> 00:27:37,060 books get more speaking invitations. 761 00:27:37,090 --> 00:27:37,990 Tiffany Hawk: Oh for sure. 762 00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:40,090 Carol Cox: Because they already have this body of work 763 00:27:40,090 --> 00:27:42,880 that's out there, and it gives them a lot of 764 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,410 authority and credibility built in, 765 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,030 especially if it's related to a specific 766 00:27:46,030 --> 00:27:47,950 industry that they're in and they have a 767 00:27:47,950 --> 00:27:49,090 book. And then I see them. 768 00:27:49,090 --> 00:27:50,560 They get speaking invitations all around the 769 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,810 world for that industry, because the book 770 00:27:52,810 --> 00:27:55,480 gives them that additional leg up. 771 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,660 And I know that also, for a lot of the 772 00:27:58,660 --> 00:28:00,700 clients that we have who have books, they 773 00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:04,360 can do, uh, like negotiations for their 774 00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:06,130 speaking fees, because a lot of times maybe 775 00:28:06,130 --> 00:28:07,720 they'll have a certain speaking fee, but 776 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,900 that particular conference or company or 777 00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:12,970 group doesn't have quite the budget for 778 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,950 that. But they do have a line item in their 779 00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:16,900 budget for books. So then they'll say, okay, 780 00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:19,810 we'll buy 100 books or 200 books for the 781 00:28:19,810 --> 00:28:22,420 event, and then and then and then pay you X 782 00:28:22,420 --> 00:28:24,970 number of dollars for your speaking fee. 783 00:28:25,420 --> 00:28:27,420 Tiffany Hawk: Oh, that's a tidbit I didn't even know. 784 00:28:27,450 --> 00:28:29,280 Like, I know how well they go together and 785 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,810 that they feed each other and that people 786 00:28:30,810 --> 00:28:32,490 are often selling hundreds of books. 787 00:28:32,490 --> 00:28:35,520 I had a client go and sell like 400 books at 788 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,470 two different events, one after the other, 789 00:28:37,470 --> 00:28:38,760 because it was a really good book. 790 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,440 That's the key. It wasn't just that he was 791 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,660 there and he had one, but I didn't think 792 00:28:42,660 --> 00:28:44,700 about that being something that the 793 00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:47,070 conference itself might purchase. 794 00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:48,810 Yeah, that's a great tip. 795 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,850 Yes. You learn something every day when you 796 00:28:50,850 --> 00:28:53,220 interact in a different profession. 797 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,550 Carol Cox: Yeah so books and speaking go very well 798 00:28:56,580 --> 00:28:59,790 together. And so Tiffany, let's talk a 799 00:28:59,790 --> 00:29:03,240 little bit about some of the ways that we 800 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,550 are collaborating coming up because I think 801 00:29:05,580 --> 00:29:07,470 listeners will be excited about this. 802 00:29:07,470 --> 00:29:09,990 So on October 1st, 2024. 803 00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:13,200 So coming up not too far from now, we are 804 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,780 doing a joint online workshop. 805 00:29:15,780 --> 00:29:16,890 So it's going to be live. 806 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,920 Both myself and Tiffany will be there and 807 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,410 we're going to lead you through that. 808 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,720 How to build your platform your speaking 809 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,330 platform as an author. 810 00:29:26,330 --> 00:29:29,270 So if you are kind of that bookworm 811 00:29:29,270 --> 00:29:31,850 introverted person like we are, how to get 812 00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:33,920 started as a speaker, how to find some 813 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,780 speaking engagements, how to put together a 814 00:29:35,780 --> 00:29:37,850 talk based on your book idea based on the 815 00:29:37,850 --> 00:29:39,020 book that you have. 816 00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:40,550 So how to build your speaking platform. 817 00:29:40,550 --> 00:29:43,400 And then if you're a speaker and you haven't 818 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,970 yet published a book, or you're working on a 819 00:29:46,970 --> 00:29:48,500 book proposal, or you want to work on a book 820 00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:50,630 proposal with Tiffany during that workshop, 821 00:29:50,660 --> 00:29:52,040 we're going to help you think about how to 822 00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:54,170 build your authority for your book proposal 823 00:29:54,170 --> 00:29:56,900 and then your eventual book as a speaker. 824 00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:59,000 So information about that is coming out. 825 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,770 So stay tuned for that. 826 00:30:00,770 --> 00:30:03,110 Get on one of our email lists or both of our 827 00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:05,210 email lists, and I'll make sure to put links 828 00:30:05,210 --> 00:30:07,130 in the show notes so that you can do that. 829 00:30:07,130 --> 00:30:09,620 I know, Tiffany, you also have a resource 830 00:30:09,620 --> 00:30:10,850 for the listeners, which we're going to 831 00:30:10,850 --> 00:30:12,170 share here in just a moment. 832 00:30:12,170 --> 00:30:14,060 The other thing that Tiffany are going to be 833 00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:16,790 doing is in the spring, we are very excited 834 00:30:16,790 --> 00:30:18,650 about this, and we are just working on the 835 00:30:18,650 --> 00:30:19,880 details right now. 836 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,670 We are going to be doing a joint in-person 837 00:30:22,670 --> 00:30:25,590 writing and speaking retreat. 838 00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:28,200 So if you know you want to have a place that 839 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,870 you can go to to kind of get away from your 840 00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:33,420 regular environment and have that time and 841 00:30:33,420 --> 00:30:35,970 space with Tiffany's guidance to work on 842 00:30:35,970 --> 00:30:37,830 your book idea, to work on sections of your 843 00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:39,540 book, you're going to have an opportunity to 844 00:30:39,570 --> 00:30:43,440 do that, as well as an opportunity to get 845 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,320 feedback and guidance and exercises, maybe 846 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,660 some improv and dance parties as well to 847 00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:50,490 hone your speaking skills. 848 00:30:50,490 --> 00:30:52,710 I know now this everyone's like, nope, not 849 00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:54,660 going to do it. But trust me, I know, know 850 00:30:54,690 --> 00:30:55,950 know you will. 851 00:30:55,950 --> 00:30:59,040 Love it so much no matter how introverted you 852 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,590 are. I promise you you will love it and it 853 00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:04,920 really will help you to develop not only 854 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,780 those speaking skills, but I think it's that 855 00:31:06,780 --> 00:31:09,270 inner confidence which, even if you decide 856 00:31:09,270 --> 00:31:11,910 you don't want to like go on a speaking 857 00:31:11,910 --> 00:31:14,250 circuit for your book or what have you, I 858 00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:17,010 feel like you'll feel more confident putting 859 00:31:17,010 --> 00:31:19,110 those query letters out there to find 860 00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:21,060 agents, because all of a sudden you're going 861 00:31:21,090 --> 00:31:23,690 to feel more comfortable in literally in 862 00:31:23,690 --> 00:31:25,670 your own body, in your own skin and 863 00:31:25,670 --> 00:31:27,080 understanding your message and what makes 864 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,730 you unique so much better. 865 00:31:30,380 --> 00:31:34,310 Tiffany Hawk: Oh, 100% I, I can attest to that because the 866 00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:35,990 confidence that I've gained as a speaker, 867 00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:37,460 when it was something I was shying away 868 00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:40,100 from, now it's just it's that using your 869 00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:42,020 voice again, when you find different ways to 870 00:31:42,050 --> 00:31:44,030 use your voice, it shows up in the other 871 00:31:44,030 --> 00:31:45,620 places. And I think that could help for 872 00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:48,470 speakers too. Not telling themselves, oh, I 873 00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:50,030 can't write, you know. 874 00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:52,970 Carol Cox: Yes. Yeah, it all goes, it all goes together. 875 00:31:52,970 --> 00:31:55,040 And just like with anything that we do in 876 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,690 our businesses and our careers, we have to 877 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:57,830 hone those skills. 878 00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:59,660 They're not innate. I didn't come out of the 879 00:31:59,660 --> 00:32:00,770 womb as a speaker. 880 00:32:00,770 --> 00:32:02,540 Tiffany did not come out of the womb as a 881 00:32:02,540 --> 00:32:05,210 writer. We developed these skills over time. 882 00:32:05,210 --> 00:32:08,060 We had this innate interest in it, so we 883 00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:09,140 wanted to develop it. 884 00:32:09,140 --> 00:32:10,670 And so we kept doing the reps. 885 00:32:10,670 --> 00:32:12,620 But now, if you want to develop, another 886 00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:14,540 side of it is putting the reps in and having 887 00:32:14,540 --> 00:32:16,340 that guidance along the way. 888 00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:19,340 All right, Tiffany, so you have a resource 889 00:32:19,340 --> 00:32:22,240 for the listeners about helping them figure 890 00:32:22,270 --> 00:32:24,790 out how good their book idea is, what is? 891 00:32:24,820 --> 00:32:26,170 Where is the best place to get that 892 00:32:26,170 --> 00:32:27,130 resource? 893 00:32:28,510 --> 00:32:31,060 Tiffany Hawk: Yeah, if they go to Tiffany Hawk Comm. 894 00:32:31,060 --> 00:32:32,380 So it's h.a.w.k. 895 00:32:32,410 --> 00:32:37,030 Tiffany.com/idea. I have a workbook to kind 896 00:32:37,030 --> 00:32:38,200 of work through. 897 00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:41,560 Is this book, um, is this book idea good. 898 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,290 And what do I need to do next if I discover 899 00:32:44,290 --> 00:32:46,060 that it is at the end of it? 900 00:32:46,090 --> 00:32:47,710 Carol Cox: Okay, great. And so by doing that. 901 00:32:47,710 --> 00:32:49,780 Tiffany Hawk: Come by my class or something like that. 902 00:32:49,780 --> 00:32:52,030 It's like a few different options for 903 00:32:52,030 --> 00:32:53,920 different levels of where you fall out 904 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:54,160 there. 905 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,890 Carol Cox: Well, even if it is come by, come by your 906 00:32:56,890 --> 00:32:58,870 class or go into your group program, I 907 00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:01,000 highly recommend that. So if they do that, 908 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,290 they'll get on your email list as well, 909 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:03,070 correct? 910 00:33:03,250 --> 00:33:04,030 Tiffany Hawk: Yes. 911 00:33:04,030 --> 00:33:06,700 Carol Cox: Yes, okay. So go do that Tiffany Hawk comm 912 00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:09,010 slash idea to get that resource. 913 00:33:09,010 --> 00:33:10,750 And then also get on Tiffany's email list so 914 00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:13,300 that you'll hear about our online workshop 915 00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:15,160 this fall and the in-person retreat in the 916 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,260 spring. You could also come to speaking your 917 00:33:17,260 --> 00:33:20,560 brand.com/quiz to take our speaker archetype 918 00:33:20,610 --> 00:33:22,170 quiz. It's fun. 919 00:33:22,170 --> 00:33:23,910 You'll think you'll discover what your 920 00:33:23,910 --> 00:33:26,070 natural communication strengths are and how 921 00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:28,260 to add to them. So if you do that speaking 922 00:33:28,260 --> 00:33:30,090 your Brand.com slash quiz, you'll also get 923 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,170 on my email list. 924 00:33:31,170 --> 00:33:33,210 So then you'll get notified about these 925 00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:35,340 upcoming collaborations as well. 926 00:33:35,370 --> 00:33:37,500 All right, Tiffany, thank you again for 927 00:33:37,500 --> 00:33:39,030 coming back on the Speaking Your Brand 928 00:33:39,030 --> 00:33:42,360 podcast. It was so fun to talk with you, and 929 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,020 I always appreciate all of your wisdom and 930 00:33:46,020 --> 00:33:49,170 your insights, and I can't wait to do more 931 00:33:49,170 --> 00:33:50,700 and to have you we'll have you back on the 932 00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:53,130 podcast. I know sometime soon to talk about 933 00:33:53,130 --> 00:33:54,420 more of what you've been doing. 934 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,790 Tiffany Hawk: Great. Thank you. It's been fun being here. 935 00:33:56,790 --> 00:33:58,230 I always love connecting. 936 00:33:58,650 --> 00:34:00,930 Carol Cox: Thanks again to Tiffany for coming on the 937 00:34:00,930 --> 00:34:03,240 podcast. Make sure to check out all the 938 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,100 links for the different things that we 939 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:06,630 talked about in the show notes. 940 00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:08,310 You can find those show notes as speaking 941 00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:11,760 your brand.com/407. 942 00:34:11,790 --> 00:34:14,100 Until next time, thanks for listening.