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All right? We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from the pilots of the RCAF. Brought to you by Skies magazine and RCAF today. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. With me today is my buddy, Corey O'Neill.

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Corey, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.

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So, before we get started, we'll go over Corey's bio. Corey graduated from flight training in 2015 and was posted to four Two Three Maritime helicopter squadron in Shearwater, Nova Scotia, flying the new Ch 148 Cyclone. While awaiting training on that aircraft, he flew some familial trips on the retiring Ch 124 Sea King and took a ground operations deployment to Kuwait during Op impact to work with the CP 140 Aurora Fleet in 2016 2017. He also took the delay as an opportunity to do the Arctic Survival and advanced Siri training in Resolute Bay and Winnipeg respectively. After completing his Otu training in 2017 on the Ch 148, he was immediately deployed as a First Officer with the HMCS, revealed the Quebec on the first operational deployment of the Cyclone. Upon return, he completed the upgrade to Maritime Helo or MH aircraft Commander and deployed again with the HMCS Toronto. Following that deployment, he completed the Maintenance Test Pilot Course and the Maritime Helicopter Crew Commander upgrade, reaching his highest category in the community. During his posting, he was involved in domestic operations, several multinational operations, and was deployed on a few short sails to the Caribbean. He was posted to three Canadian Forces Flight Training School in 2022 and recently.

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Became a qualified flight instructor.

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So where did aviation start for you?

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Aviation started completely by accident for me, for the most part.

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I worked for the RCMP while I.

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Was in university at the University of.

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Ottawa, and originally I had planned to be a police officer.

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So I worked doing policy work for.

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Them in Ottawa and headquarters during my time there.

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I essentially worked, um, with the Skyhawks, the Parachute jump team.

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Oh, cool.

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And it was just kind of a public relations thing that we were doing. And after that we all went out for drinks. There were some delays in my progress anyways, trying to crack the police force as a regular member. I had ambitions to get down to BC and do some work down there.

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And I was a bit frustrated.

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And they had mentioned the military as.

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An option for me, mhm, and said.

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You should check out being an intelligence officer in the military.

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Okay. And after a mundane day at work.

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I decided to go down to Spark Street in Ottawa and apply.

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So while there, essentially they were quite.

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Happy that I already had a security clearance. I was working for the government. I did some reserve time when I was quite young in Thunder Bay. So they created a file for me, and we're pretty enthusiastic, I thought.

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I kind of was a shoe in.

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For it and went back to work. And after a couple of months, I.

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Didn'T hear anything from them.

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So I inquired again and they said, we're simply not hiring, um, for that particular trade.

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And I said, well, what can you give me?

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I want to be challenged both physically. I want to be in the mix, but I want something that's going to make me think. And they said, well, you should be a pilot. And I immediately dismissed that as an option for myself. I had no previous background. I didn't have an engineering background. I was an international relations and global politics graduate.

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That sounds like a perfect pilot.

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Yeah, exactly right. Somebody that is a complete, uh, natural. And the way that it was explained.

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To me was more or less you're.

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Kind of in the queue anyways, what's the harm? Brush up on your math and we're.

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Going to send you to Trenton. So off I went.

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And it was explained to me that typically guys or girls that come into this trade have a background, obviously, in the field, or they've done air cadets or gliders or have a private pilot's license, which tempered my expectations. And, uh, I went down to Trenton.

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And tried my best to, uh, I.

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Guess, compete and crack the lineup, and.

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It worked out for me.

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Wow. Yeah.

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So you had no background in aviation?

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None.

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No initial intent to be a pilot?

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None.

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But your trade was closed and they recommended it to you and that was that.

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Yeah, I think there was a timing thing where the trade had just opened, and I had a good recruiter who said that this is an option based off of my prerequisites, and again, kind of tempered my expectations as to who is typically successful in the trade. And yeah, he was sent down to air crew selection. I think there was 14 of us.

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That went down and six came out the other end.

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Um, either that weren't successful in the initial portion or the medical portion that follows, and I was successful.

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So off I went.

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So when did you start thinking, like.

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Okay, I'm going to be a pilot?

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It wasn't until phase one, I'd say.

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Where it started to feel real, where.

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It started to feel like that it was a possibility. Obviously, you get excited at the prospect. Basic training wasn't something I was massively.

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Worried about, but I went through and.

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I know actually, Captain Foreman talked about this a little bit as well, but I went through during the heyday of I think there was like a 60% to 70% failure rate in phase one. So I just worked as hard as.

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I could to try to be successful. And how did that go? How did your flight training go?

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You know what?

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Hindsight is 2020. Uh, looking back on it, I loved it.

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Yeah.

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I'm very much more so now.

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Kind of of the opinion that growth happens in failure. And I had a little bit of.

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That, obviously, with my struggles in the RCMP or trying to crack the police force. But, I mean, I forged some of the best friendships through training. The challenges of training were something that I came to enjoy. Once you surpass the stress that, uh, of course, you're aware of and everybody else that's kind of gone through that rigorous training is aware of.

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Did you have any big setbacks during your flight training?

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Nothing that was substantial. A few failed trips here and there. One or two Eds on the way through, extra duels to brush up on a few things.

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But I came through pretty unscathed, luckily.

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Now, when you had to do those extra duels from a failure, did you find that difficult? Did you have a tool you use to get through that?

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It's a mental game, for sure. You go into any one of those training flights, especially pre wings, knowing that your career is kind of on the liners. At the very least, it's a perspective that you have mhm for sure, uh, of the student.

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So you know that it is very.

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Much a do or die type situation. So really, just ensuring that you know your stuff and getting into the books and trying to prepare yourself as much as you can before you jump in the aircraft is really all you can do. Try to calm your nerves.

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Yeah.

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So preparation was your big thing?

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I'd say so, yeah.

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So you did get through your flight training?

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I did.

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And you got to selection and you get selected for the Cyclone?

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Yes.

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Now, at the time, were they saying Cyclone or seeking?

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It depended who you asked. It was right on that cusp, really.

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Okay, so you weren't sure if you're going to be like the last cadre of seeking.

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Exactly. So they did on my graduation announce, when they kind of make that announcement.

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During the ceremony that I am off.

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To fly the brand new Cyclone.

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Okay.

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But I feel like in speaking with people from the squadron, they were saying that years prior and yet they were selling the Sea King. So I think it was just kind of a caged response for them, maybe.

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And was that what you had wanted to get?

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So I jumped around a little bit. I was heavily influenced by my primary and secondary instructors here in Southport, and they were both MH guys.

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MH is short for maritime helicopter.

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And they really spoke to some of the benefits of MH and spoke to the lifestyle a little bit. I originally, I think, when I was in basic training, wanted to go tackel and then that parried over to search and rescue and doing domestic ops. And then by the time I graduated, I was swayed to MH, so I did end up getting what I wanted, but I was, uh, pretty indecisive at times.

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That's fair. I think a lot of us were though, back then, because you have so little idea. All you have is a few secondhand accounts, and if you're lucky, you've sat down with an instructor or two who's flown different airframes, but you really don't know.

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Yeah, I feel like probably a lot of listeners or a lot of people that think about pilots are like, I want to go jets. Jets is kind of the thing, because I've watched Maverick. Um, but once you get into actually how operations work and what you want to do and where you want to live and what you want to get paid, there's just so many different variables that you have to consider in terms of work, life balance, family, all the stuff that you need to kind of bring into account.

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Yeah, totally agree.

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Were you intimidated at all asking for the Maritime Kilo fleet by the idea.

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Of being at sea?

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No, I wasn't. I spoke about my reserve time. It was in the Navy. Now, granted, it was in Thunder Bay, so I really just floated around Lake Superior. That didn't really count. But no, it really didn't phase me.

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About going to sea.

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So over water operations really didn't come.

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Into my frame of mind.

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So before you started flying on the Cyclone, you deployed in a ground position in support of Op Impact to work with the CP 140 Aurora Fleet?

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I did.

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How did that come about?

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So going back to, uh, I guess whether or not I was going to fly the Sea King or the Cyclone.

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When I got to Squadron, they told.

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Me, you know what, you're lucky. You were going to be on the.

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Last Sea King Otu. So I thought, that's fantastic.

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I'm going to fly both aircraft. I'm going to get some experience. So I was awaiting this Otu. I was course loaded on the training, and it was the Friday prior to the Otu start.

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And I got called into the DCO's office and he says, I'm so sorry, but you've been off ramped and you.

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Are no longer on the OT. Uh, reason being because the fleet was kind of dwindling and OTS were taking a little bit longer. It was a course of eight. They cut it to a course of six, and I was number seven.

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That must have been a tough I.

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Mean, it was nice that it was a Friday. Yeah, that might have been strategic. That could have been strategic. So in the period of time after that, after, uh, coming to terms with the fact that there would be probably a significant delay in my training, I just kind of wanted to take advantage best I could and do some additional training. So you mentioned it in kind of the preamble there that I did Arctic survival. I did Aceri.

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Can you explain what Aceri is?

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Acer? Yes. That's the advanced survive, resist, escape. It's put on here just, uh, outside of Winnipeg. And it essentially gives you the survival techniques and skills in case you have a downed aircraft and you're kind of behind enemy lines. It just kind of gives you some survival techniques. It's a challenging course and kind of has you on the run, sleep deprived for quite some time, but it's great training. So I did all these other things that were made available to me, essentially.

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To be as productive as possible before.

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I got into the actual helicopter training. And Kuwait was given to me as an option.

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Obviously, the CP 140 fleet, as well.

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As the maritime helicopter community, we are kind of in the same realm of work.

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Yeah, for sure.

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So it was a nice way for me to transition into MH and learn a little bit about underwater warfare, above water warfare, and things that would be.

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Relevant to me when I actually did hit the fleet. Yeah, so that was a six month tour, actually.

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I did, uh, several back to back to back HLTA backfills.

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Okay.

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So it ended up being just over three in order to accommodate everybody.

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Okay.

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So yeah.

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And that was a positive experience.

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It was, yeah, it was a really good experience. It was my first operation kind of out in the real world, which was a nice thing. I did learn a lot just about the coordination in terms of, obviously a bigger joint mission like that. And I did learn quite a bit about CP 140 operations as well. So I did a lot of mission prep, worked with intelligence, cultivated kind of.

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All of the information that would go.

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Into their daily brief, and then I would brief the crews before they went up.

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That's awesome.

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Mhm.

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Yeah, those briefings are huge. That's really cool. I didn't realize that's what you're doing over there.

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Yeah.

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What do you think was the coolest.

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Experience you had while you're over there? Coolest experience?

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I had had to have been who I ended up there with, I feel. So we talked about training a little bit and my experience in the training system here. Phase two is a real highlight for me, and I will shout out my guys in Kestrel flight, but, uh, that was probably the most enjoyable phase. It was kind of a long eight month stint here in South Port. And of course, all of those individuals kind of, um, branched out to their respective fleets after. Some went multi, some went hilo.

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And while we were there, there was.

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About three or four of us that.

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Ended up back in Kuwait at the.

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Same time with the respective fleets. And we got to kind of catch up. It was just a really neat experience to have all these guys, some of them were flying a couple of us were doing ground jobs while waiting, and.

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We all got to kind of reconnect in Kuwait, which is pretty cool.

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When you run into an old friend from the Air Force and you're both doing your thing in an operational theater, it's neat to see that friendly face in, uh, in a faraway place.

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Absolutely. And I don't know if it was kind of the same when you went through, but even through basic training, there was a lot of pilots loaded on that course.

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So we all kind of weathered the storm together to finally get our wings.

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And then we all kind of branched out and did our own thing and ended up spread out across the country. So it was almost like, uh, to see everybody, ah at completion and be able to hang out.

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It was, uh, really cool.

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So what exactly does the Cyclone do?

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It's a loaded question.

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It does everything, which is kind of what was one of the main selling features when speaking to the MH guys. So, primary functions above water warfare and underwater warfare.

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Right.

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So it acts as the eyes and ears for the Navy. It deploys as a naval asset over the horizon and is able to identify vessels that are above water and then has a capability to, uh, track submarines and engage in underwater warfare.

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Secondarily, um, it's a secondary SAR platform.

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Essentially, and it does utility work as well. So we can hoist, we can sling, troop transport, diver deployments. So it's a little bit of everything.

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Yeah.

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You guys do it all?

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Yeah.

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I knew, obviously, that you guys were an anti submarine warfare ASW asset because I've worked with plenty of maritime helicopters, but I didn't realize I mean, it seems obvious, but I didn't realize that you guys would do all that utility work as well.

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Yeah, utility is a big part of it. We had the capability to hoist and.

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Sling, obviously, as well. I can't tell you how many times that operationally that was employed.

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But it's a capability that we have.

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And one that you maintain and have.

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To train for, and one that we maintain. We do it over land and at sea. So we pick up a, uh, load and do circuits around the ship and come back and try to pickle it in a certain spot.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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How was the cyclone? A step up from the sea. King, what's the big differences?

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The biggest difference was the capacity for sanitization in that TS.

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Uh, just go the ball.

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So that's like a big sonar ball that you dip in the ocean and you can ping with, right.

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And then it opens up and essentially, we can put sound into the water and then we can track that way. So we almost had to, in the initial stages, rethink our tactics and our dipping profiles, for example, just because putting.

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That particular sonar in the water just.

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Sanitized can't remember what the metric was in terms of like, how much more, but it was significantly more than what the Sea King was capable of. So they would do whatever pattern they chose that would be in line with whatever tactics they were trying to employ. And it almost didn't apply because one dip with this particular ball would just cover a massive area.

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So you guys basically had to start rethinking. How do you fight with this aircraft?

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Yeah, honestly, it was good and bad.

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It was worse for pilots because we didn't fly as much. But you could sit in the hover, essentially, and it was really the sensor operator in the back that would play with the specifics, like the settings, essentially, of the sonar to try to pick up whatever the target may be. But we didn't have to do much in terms of movement to try to maximize his area.

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Yeah, I mean, that's the name of the game, right? That's the only reason, when you're out doing ASW that's the only reason you're out there is to put those guys where they want to be.

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Exactly.

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You're just there to get them in the right spot so they can do their thing.

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Glorified bus Driver yeah, for sure.

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Can you tell us a little more about the training and upgrade process for a Cyclone pilot?

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Sure.

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So you get to your squadron, you're sent to the Operational training Unit, uh, being 406, and you go through the Otu. When successful on the Otu, you'll be employed on squadron.

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From there, you'll do a little bit.

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Of local flying and start working away on your upgrade package. A big part of that upgrade package is Seaborne operations.

180
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So you deploy as a copilot and.

181
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Work away at that.

182
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From there, you get all your seaborne.

183
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Checks as well as your overland checks and, uh, upgrade to aircraft captain.

184
00:17:54.020 --> 00:17:55.952
And then it's almost a rinse repeat.

185
00:17:56.016 --> 00:18:09.016
For a maritime helicopter crew commander. There's an upgrade package, things that you need to do, and that's more sort of the tactical side. They have a crew commander course, which I thought was fantastic. It was a really good almost a.

186
00:18:09.038 --> 00:18:12.120
Forum of really experienced MH guys.

187
00:18:12.270 --> 00:18:31.536
So it was a good combination of learning the tools, employing the tools, say, in the simulator, filling that role, but also drawing from the experiences of some really knowledgeable maritime helicopter operators. So I couldn't say enough good things about the course. Then from there, you go through your.

188
00:18:31.558 --> 00:18:39.824
Typical check rides and eventually get that crew commander qualification. Um, it's not exactly that quick.

189
00:18:39.862 --> 00:18:46.464
There's obviously hours requirements and things uh, like that as well. But that's typically the stepping stone in every one of those roles.

190
00:18:46.512 --> 00:18:48.976
You typically deploy in some capacity.

191
00:18:49.008 --> 00:18:53.076
So you'll deploy as a copilot, you'll deploy as an aircraft captain, sometimes an.

192
00:18:53.098 --> 00:18:57.910
Aircraft captain and an MHCC, or sometimes.

193
00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:02.680
Just as an aircraft captain. Then you might get a short sale as an MHCC as well.

194
00:19:02.750 --> 00:19:04.644
And when you say deploy, you mean a sale?

195
00:19:04.692 --> 00:19:05.156
A, uh, sale?

196
00:19:05.188 --> 00:19:18.584
Yeah. So I did two long ones. So I did a six, seven month sale as a copilot. I did a six month sale as an aircraft captain, and then I just did some more so local flying.

197
00:19:18.632 --> 00:19:21.496
But it was in a, uh, like.

198
00:19:21.538 --> 00:19:31.464
A Join X type thing with the Navy as an MHCC. So I got a few rides as a crew commander, but I didn't really get to deploy in that role.

199
00:19:31.532 --> 00:19:31.908
Okay.

200
00:19:31.994 --> 00:19:32.532
Yeah.

201
00:19:32.666 --> 00:20:03.308
You were talking about the crew commander course that you guys take. That mentorship is so key when it comes to because you're stepping into this leadership role. And the thing that's different about being a crew commander on the Aurora or the maritime helicopter is, unlike other fleets, you are organized into crews, and you're responsible for that crew and their admin. It's not just when you're flying that you're responsible for them. Right, right. So you have a leadership position that a lot of pilots don't get put into.

202
00:20:03.394 --> 00:20:03.644
Right.

203
00:20:03.682 --> 00:20:23.112
And that dichotomy was something that was most confusing to me and a little bit challenging when I did deploy as an aircraft captain, is just kind of knowing my arcs. M vice, the crew commander that I had, which was a Taco, and, uh, he did a really good job as well of still mentoring me in that role.

204
00:20:23.276 --> 00:20:26.292
And I got to employ kind of.

205
00:20:26.426 --> 00:20:37.784
What I was trying to employ as a new aircraft captain to try to gain the required experience deploying in that role. So it's a lot of teamwork that kind of goes into that relationship.

206
00:20:37.982 --> 00:20:38.296
Yeah.

207
00:20:38.318 --> 00:20:40.120
And you can get that mentorship. It's important.

208
00:20:40.190 --> 00:20:40.376
Right.

209
00:20:40.398 --> 00:20:59.160
You can get that mentorship from a Taco. A taco is an axo. So we just interviewed someone who explained on a recent episode that an Axo is Air Combat Systems Officer, aka a navigator. And on the maritime fleets, both the Aurora and the maritime helicopter, you can have a Axo who is the crew commander.

210
00:20:59.240 --> 00:20:59.628
Yes.

211
00:20:59.714 --> 00:21:03.152
So you can get plenty of mentorship from those guys and girls as well.

212
00:21:03.206 --> 00:21:03.970
For sure.

213
00:21:04.340 --> 00:21:11.696
So we just started talking about this a bit, but something unique about the Cyclone is that it deploys on board a ship. Can you tell us what a normal.

214
00:21:11.728 --> 00:21:15.392
Day at sea looks like for a Cyclone crew member?

215
00:21:15.456 --> 00:21:18.544
They call that an oxymoron. A normal day at sea.

216
00:21:18.592 --> 00:21:18.804
Okay.

217
00:21:18.842 --> 00:21:19.380
Yeah.

218
00:21:19.530 --> 00:21:33.060
Seaborne operations are interesting, for sure. So there's usually this familiarity period where you integrate with the Navy. They do things differently. They're on different schedules.

219
00:21:33.220 --> 00:21:34.744
And you really have to try to.

220
00:21:34.782 --> 00:21:44.760
Find this balance with, um, them being kind of the awkward cousin in their ship dynamic. But they usually eventually break and they welcome you with open arms.

221
00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:46.460
Typically on ship.

222
00:21:48.160 --> 00:22:11.380
You'Re woken up by their bong bong alarms. First thing in the morning, you go and you have breakfast, you look at what they have. It's called the flex and that's their schedule, essentially, and where your air missions fit in that particular day. And then you start planning around that. The interesting thing about shipborne operations is no matter which crew you are on, you're always involved.

223
00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:14.064
That being you'll have a landing signals.

224
00:22:14.112 --> 00:22:16.516
Officer, an LSO, or you're the flying.

225
00:22:16.548 --> 00:22:19.636
Pilot now, the landing signals officer, that's.

226
00:22:19.668 --> 00:22:22.904
The person who's in that little kind of mini control tower hut thing.

227
00:22:22.942 --> 00:22:23.288
Right?

228
00:22:23.374 --> 00:22:37.884
Exactly. Yeah. So you're clearing them for takeoff. Clearing them for landing. And you're working alongside the bridge. You're essentially on comms with the bridge, getting their required clearance to bring them in, make sure that your Rad has safe so you're not shining a radar or anything like that.

229
00:22:38.002 --> 00:22:39.512
Rad has is radar hazard.

230
00:22:39.576 --> 00:22:39.756
Yeah.

231
00:22:39.778 --> 00:22:42.828
So you make sure that they're safe to come in into the landing profile.

232
00:22:42.924 --> 00:22:44.992
And ah, not just blasting them with radar, basically.

233
00:22:45.126 --> 00:23:21.964
Exactly right. So you're always kind of employed and if the debt commander happens to be flying, then responsibilities can be delegated to you to kind of deal with the other piece being like the day to day admin that needs to happen during that because our sorties are about 3 hours while, uh, at sea. So you could fly anywhere from one trip to four trips with both crews throughout the day, depending on uh, what your goals are for the day. But then otherwise it's kind of normal. Again, oxymoron normal ish in that you try to go to the gym, but your gym moves and rocks and rolls. Um, and depending on the sea state, you try to have some dinner, but.

234
00:23:22.002 --> 00:23:25.260
Your plates might is that hard to get used to?

235
00:23:25.330 --> 00:23:32.492
It is. I remember my first exposure was as I was again, just trying to capitalize.

236
00:23:32.556 --> 00:23:36.112
On some learning opportunities as a young.

237
00:23:36.166 --> 00:23:37.776
New member of four, two, three I.

238
00:23:37.798 --> 00:23:41.472
Jumped on the Athabascan before they retired it okay.

239
00:23:41.606 --> 00:23:43.840
And went out on a famil.

240
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.780
They call it a salty dip.

241
00:23:46.280 --> 00:23:48.244
And I don't think I was more.

242
00:23:48.282 --> 00:23:50.596
Than a couple miles out of the.

243
00:23:50.618 --> 00:23:53.636
Break and I was not feeling great.

244
00:23:53.738 --> 00:23:54.736
Were you getting seasick?

245
00:23:54.768 --> 00:24:07.704
Yeah. You have to work yourself up to it. I've now come to realize that everybody gets seasick. Yeah, it is at what level you get seasick is the variable. So we build up our tolerance and eventually you can deal with it.

246
00:24:07.742 --> 00:24:09.672
But it does take some getting used to.

247
00:24:09.726 --> 00:24:12.028
If you're pretty sick, do they just give you a break to deal with.

248
00:24:12.034 --> 00:24:13.820
It or do you still have all your duties?

249
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.668
They give you a little bit of a break.

250
00:24:16.754 --> 00:24:19.016
A lot of personnel in the Navy.

251
00:24:19.048 --> 00:24:31.648
Can wear like, say, a patch that I don't have no idea what it actually does. I think it messes with your inner ear a little bit and can help combat some seasickness. But us having a different medical profile and having to fly, we don't have access to it.

252
00:24:31.654 --> 00:24:34.068
So have to grin and bear it.

253
00:24:34.074 --> 00:24:43.972
So, I mean, uh, they're going to hate that I say this, but we might be a little bit harder than the Navy because we don't get any gravel esque type things.

254
00:24:44.026 --> 00:24:54.184
That's right. The Air Force is known for its ruggedness, for sure. So when you guys have a rough sea state, what's it like taking off.

255
00:24:54.222 --> 00:24:55.636
And landing from a ship?

256
00:24:55.748 --> 00:25:00.212
Taking off is easier because essentially you're just pulling pitch.

257
00:25:00.356 --> 00:25:01.840
Do you time it with the role?

258
00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:07.016
Yes. So that's, again, one of the roles of the LSO, the landing signals officer.

259
00:25:07.128 --> 00:25:10.376
So you are what they call trapped on deck.

260
00:25:10.408 --> 00:25:13.728
And that's the bear trap has you kind of latched to the deck with.

261
00:25:13.734 --> 00:25:18.348
A probe and the sea has a rhythm.

262
00:25:18.524 --> 00:25:21.116
And once it has that, uh, they call it a quiescent period.

263
00:25:21.148 --> 00:25:26.656
But once it has kind of a quiet period, they will open the trap.

264
00:25:26.688 --> 00:25:28.340
And clear you, take off, and without.

265
00:25:28.410 --> 00:25:30.484
Delay, you want to pull pitch and.

266
00:25:30.522 --> 00:25:32.336
Start flying away from the ship, essentially.

267
00:25:32.448 --> 00:25:32.772
Basically.

268
00:25:32.826 --> 00:25:34.096
So it doesn't come up and smack.

269
00:25:34.128 --> 00:25:39.764
You as you're, uh yeah, essentially, like you have maybe it's 1 second, maybe it's 2 seconds to start lifting.

270
00:25:39.812 --> 00:25:45.336
So you don't want to delay at all. What's that like? The first time you do that, as.

271
00:25:45.358 --> 00:26:01.932
You would imagine, uh, there is some stress and copilots are often very white knuckled when they're doing it. No doubt good aircraft captains are shadowing the controls like we do kind of here when you're learning a new skill. So, yeah, that part's a little bit easier. The biggest concern, obviously, is drift.

272
00:26:01.996 --> 00:26:05.296
And there's kind of visual illusions that.

273
00:26:05.318 --> 00:26:11.696
You got to deal with because the ship may be coming towards you and away from you. With the waves and the motion of.

274
00:26:11.718 --> 00:26:13.628
The ship, you might feel like you're.

275
00:26:13.644 --> 00:26:18.516
Drifting towards it or drifting back. You have to just be very steady on the controls and then kind of.

276
00:26:18.538 --> 00:26:20.176
Take off, I guess, because the ship's.

277
00:26:20.208 --> 00:26:24.628
Your only reference visually. Right. So, uh, if it starts to move around, you might think you're moving.

278
00:26:24.714 --> 00:26:51.040
Exactly. So this will parry very well into the next, which is landing, and you can imagine that that's even more difficult. So when the ship is kind of rocking and rolling, you're looking at a reference that is just above the hangar. You feel very, very close. It's not a very large landing spot, obviously, to begin with, but you'll have the reference of that hangar that is coming toward you and away from you and you have to just kind of trust your references and trust that you're not moving.

279
00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:51.330
Wow.

280
00:26:51.330 --> 00:26:57.516
Uh, and once you hit that quiescent period, you have to call that you're going to attempt a landing and you're.

281
00:26:57.548 --> 00:27:00.540
Almost working with the LSO to ensure.

282
00:27:00.620 --> 00:27:05.988
That your attempt is safe. And you can wave yourself off if it's not going well. Your copilot can wave you off if.

283
00:27:05.994 --> 00:27:07.060
It'S not going well.

284
00:27:07.210 --> 00:27:09.604
And the LSO could also. Wave you off if it's not going.

285
00:27:09.642 --> 00:27:14.760
Well, what's that like? If it's, let's say, nighttime and rough the worst.

286
00:27:15.860 --> 00:27:18.024
Uh, honestly, it's a double edged thing.

287
00:27:18.062 --> 00:27:21.816
Because you land successfully with such a.

288
00:27:21.838 --> 00:27:35.996
Sense of accomplishment, but at the same time, it's after you're done kind of breathing into the paper bag. But really, you know what I mean? It can get tense, for sure, and it can get challenging. And a lot of the times I've been in situations where you just have.

289
00:27:36.018 --> 00:27:38.280
To wait, uh, in that high hover.

290
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:55.492
For three, four, five minutes. The bridge is probably in the LSO's ear saying, you got to land now. Get down, get down. And of course, you eventually being the aircraft captain or as a copilot, hopefully listening to your aircraft captain, you're not going to try to execute a landing until it's safe to do so. And you just got to wait it out.

291
00:27:55.546 --> 00:27:58.804
And I guess the ship has to go in a straight line while you guys are doing that.

292
00:27:58.922 --> 00:28:07.540
Yeah, they do. I mean, if they do need to maneuver, they will wave us off somewhere and they'll reposition. But, yeah, once they've picked a heading.

293
00:28:07.620 --> 00:28:10.872
Or we've requested a heading, we've worked.

294
00:28:10.926 --> 00:28:18.392
Through Wins and all the rest of that stuff. So they have to kind of stay the course until we're successfully landed on the ground.

295
00:28:18.456 --> 00:28:21.644
Man, that's got to be really scary sometimes.

296
00:28:21.762 --> 00:28:24.076
There's certainly been some challenging days, for sure.

297
00:28:24.178 --> 00:28:28.796
And again, we kind of chat a little bit offline about it, but when.

298
00:28:28.818 --> 00:28:45.140
You come back to the ship, when you first kind of deployed from the ship, you're within limits. We have now. It's, um, kind of an accelerometer to say whether or not you're in or out of limits to land and take off, just like our normal kind of weather, wind limits. But, uh, ship motion limits is something that we have to deal with.

299
00:28:45.210 --> 00:28:48.080
Okay, so you may deploy and you're.

300
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:55.460
Within limits, and then all of a sudden, you hit some unexpected weather or, uh, some unexpected sea state and you come back and you're out of limits.

301
00:28:56.040 --> 00:28:56.452
Okay.

302
00:28:56.506 --> 00:28:57.272
What are you going to do?

303
00:28:57.326 --> 00:29:05.348
You got to land. There's nothing you don't have an alternate. There's no alternate. There's no options. You're at the only possible spot to land the helicopter.

304
00:29:05.364 --> 00:29:09.260
So you just got to execute. Is that where the bear trap comes into play?

305
00:29:09.410 --> 00:29:09.820
Yeah.

306
00:29:09.890 --> 00:29:16.616
So the bear trap certainly assists with that. We can land what's called clear deck, free deck, or tethered, essentially.

307
00:29:16.728 --> 00:29:18.444
So can you explain what the bear trap is?

308
00:29:18.482 --> 00:29:28.956
So the bear trap is this mechanism that secures us to the deck, a successful landing. We have a probe that will deploy out of the middle of the fuselage, the body of the helicopter.

309
00:29:28.988 --> 00:29:31.168
Is that like, on a cable or no.

310
00:29:31.254 --> 00:29:33.688
So the probe will come down regardless.

311
00:29:33.804 --> 00:29:34.468
Okay.

312
00:29:34.634 --> 00:29:37.856
And when you land, I think it's.

313
00:29:37.888 --> 00:29:40.224
Probably about 4ft by 4ft, the bear trap.

314
00:29:40.272 --> 00:29:45.076
Okay. And if you can put the probe in the bear trap, the LSO will.

315
00:29:45.098 --> 00:29:49.812
Close the bear trap, and it secures you on deck. We can do that with a tether.

316
00:29:49.956 --> 00:29:54.008
Or without a tether. If there's rougher sea states, it would.

317
00:29:54.014 --> 00:30:08.060
Be more beneficial to use a tether. And essentially, what the LSO could do is apply tension as you're lowering collective and help guide you in to a degree. Now, granted, this is a pretty heavy helicopter, and that is assistance at best.

318
00:30:08.210 --> 00:30:10.684
Right. So, like, a person hooks that up?

319
00:30:10.722 --> 00:30:15.212
Yeah. We would get into a high hover. We would lower messenger wire.

320
00:30:15.356 --> 00:30:17.196
A deck handler would come out, clip.

321
00:30:17.228 --> 00:30:20.928
Those together, give a signal, we would raise the messenger wire, and that would.

322
00:30:21.094 --> 00:30:23.360
Essentially get us on the tether.

323
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:24.068
Okay.

324
00:30:24.234 --> 00:30:35.064
And then we try to execute a landing that way. And as we are lowering collective to land, the LSO is applying a certain amount of pounds of pressure to try.

325
00:30:35.102 --> 00:30:37.972
To help us guide ourselves into the bear trap.

326
00:30:38.116 --> 00:30:39.640
That sounds really intense.

327
00:30:41.260 --> 00:30:49.580
Honestly, it's some of the most challenging but best flying that obviously, I've done. But I think overall, in the calf.

328
00:30:49.830 --> 00:30:51.832
Uh, it's a challenging feat.

329
00:30:51.896 --> 00:31:09.536
Well, it is a great feeling. Like when you're really earning your pay and you're coming in under difficult weather, challenging circumstances on fixed wing, let's say you're fighting a big crosswind and there's lots of gusts or wind shear, visibility is bad, whatever. And you get in there, you bring it in, you're on solid ground again.

330
00:31:09.718 --> 00:31:11.410
And you can kind of just go.

331
00:31:12.580 --> 00:31:14.820
And you get this feeling like, yeah, we did it.

332
00:31:14.890 --> 00:31:18.836
Well. Exactly. Right. So in the moment, you wish that.

333
00:31:18.938 --> 00:31:21.696
Obviously you had calm seas and sunny.

334
00:31:21.728 --> 00:31:22.532
Skies all the time.

335
00:31:22.586 --> 00:31:24.388
Everyone loves to land when it's nice out.

336
00:31:24.474 --> 00:31:37.288
Exactly. But when you do kind of get down, it's kind of etched in your mind as obviously, some of the most challenging flying. And there is kind of a heightened sense of accomplishment when you do things that, you know, only a handful of.

337
00:31:37.294 --> 00:31:40.636
Pilots will ever do in that kind.

338
00:31:40.658 --> 00:31:41.736
Of regime of flying.

339
00:31:41.768 --> 00:31:46.524
So that's it's pretty cool. So we've talked about a day at sea, right.

340
00:31:46.642 --> 00:31:48.476
What does a normal day look like? At four.

341
00:31:48.498 --> 00:31:49.496
Two, three squadron.

342
00:31:49.608 --> 00:31:56.976
Four two three squadron. I'll, uh, first and foremost say, great group of guys, good camaraderie out there, but Four Two Three Squadron with a.

343
00:31:56.998 --> 00:31:59.484
Changeover from Sea King to Cyclone.

344
00:31:59.532 --> 00:32:10.244
As with any kind of fleet that is trying to introduce a a new new helicopter, there's been some serviceability issues, obviously, some setbacks in progression of training.

345
00:32:10.442 --> 00:32:16.008
So we do have some state of the art simulators there that are getting.

346
00:32:16.094 --> 00:32:18.760
High use, I'd say, in terms of training.

347
00:32:18.830 --> 00:32:23.028
So you spend some time doing simulator trips.

348
00:32:23.204 --> 00:32:33.752
There's also, obviously, local training flights that we do to stay proficient in the helicopter, but we end up sharing the fleet with 406 and generating new pilots.

349
00:32:33.816 --> 00:32:35.916
Does take priority yeah, we had the.

350
00:32:35.938 --> 00:32:48.524
Same issue in Greenwood. With 404 and 405, the operational squadron is always second priority. And if you're having any serviceability issues, that means that all the serviceable aircraft are going to the training squadron.

351
00:32:48.572 --> 00:33:00.320
Exactly. So deployed operations are prior One, students are Pride Two, and your own kind of flying proficiency is Pride Three. Considering that you have like, two state of the art simulators that are accessible.

352
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:03.364
For the most part, but with that.

353
00:33:03.402 --> 00:33:09.080
New fleet as well, there's a lot of amendments to courseware it's how can we do it better?

354
00:33:09.150 --> 00:33:11.736
Kind of those thinking groups to try.

355
00:33:11.758 --> 00:33:16.584
To maximize training value with the resources that we have. And then, of course, the normal list.

356
00:33:16.622 --> 00:33:19.720
Of secondary duties that are at kind of any squadron.

357
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.592
So how often do you think you fly? Like on a weekly basis?

358
00:33:23.656 --> 00:33:26.588
You'd be scheduled probably for about three trips a week.

359
00:33:26.674 --> 00:33:26.972
Okay.

360
00:33:27.026 --> 00:33:31.856
I'd say so. It's not, um, uncommon scheduling wise. And then again, it's a matter of.

361
00:33:31.878 --> 00:33:35.036
Whether or not those aircraft are going to be serviceable.

362
00:33:35.068 --> 00:33:44.228
And then you end up probably donating one of those to the 406 program. That's actually a big reason why they employ as much of us.

363
00:33:44.314 --> 00:33:46.596
Or I guess we take advantage of.

364
00:33:46.618 --> 00:33:57.144
The MTP course, the maintenance test pilot course. So when things aren't going well serviceability wise, we at least have the resources to try to get some back online so we can get some of that training.

365
00:33:57.262 --> 00:34:26.412
Yeah, for sure. And the thing that listeners should realize as well is it's not uncommon for something like there's so many things on this aircraft. When we say that an aircraft goes us or unserviceable, it could be something major, it could be something quite minor. But if something's broken, it's broken. And if you're the second, I'm sure you guys run into this as well. If there's a training flight first and you're taking it after them because their first priority, it's just that much more of a chance that something has gone wrong during that flight.

366
00:34:26.476 --> 00:34:26.800
Exactly.

367
00:34:26.870 --> 00:34:29.824
And it might be something minor, but it's still enough to bump your trip off for them.

368
00:34:29.862 --> 00:34:56.440
Exactly. Or the type of trip as well. Right. So think of instrument flying is, I guess, the easiest example, but, ah, ours would say overwater flying vice, just kind of going out for proficiency hands and feet type stuff. We could lose the Sono boy dispenser and that stops restricted. So it essentially is just kind of, uh, again, the flying bus, but it's just the helicopter that you can go out and you can do some sort of confined area landings.

369
00:34:57.260 --> 00:34:57.576
Yeah.

370
00:34:57.598 --> 00:35:00.060
You have to just kind of amend what you want to do.

371
00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:03.372
Right. But when I left, which was probably.

372
00:35:03.426 --> 00:35:10.560
Just over a year ago now, the service ability was good enough that I would get a few trips a week. Okay, that's pretty good.

373
00:35:10.630 --> 00:35:11.250
Yeah.

374
00:35:12.020 --> 00:35:14.528
What would you say was the hardest part when you started flying on the.

375
00:35:14.534 --> 00:35:16.716
Cyclone, it would certainly be seaborne operations.

376
00:35:16.828 --> 00:35:17.248
Okay.

377
00:35:17.334 --> 00:35:25.012
Reason being is that there's no real portion of the operational training unit that.

378
00:35:25.066 --> 00:35:28.672
Touches on the hands and feet of seaborne operations.

379
00:35:28.736 --> 00:35:38.650
So the first time that I transitioned over top of A deck was on my way out on my first deployment. So there's no work up to that.

380
00:35:39.020 --> 00:35:42.504
Now, let me qualify that by saying.

381
00:35:42.542 --> 00:35:45.816
That typically we have sea training on with us, and we do a couple.

382
00:35:45.838 --> 00:35:51.356
Of days around the local area, but I essentially was not getting off the.

383
00:35:51.378 --> 00:35:57.304
Ship until, or at least back on Canadian soil until we got back from the deployment.

384
00:35:57.432 --> 00:36:00.808
So you learn how to fly this helicopter.

385
00:36:00.904 --> 00:36:14.076
You learn some of theory behind landing on a ship, but you don't get that experience until you're in it. So there is no work up to that. So that, I think, is probably the biggest challenge for any maritime helicopter pilot.

386
00:36:14.108 --> 00:36:15.856
Is you're thrown in the pool.

387
00:36:16.048 --> 00:36:23.844
So something I always ask after that is what can you do to overcome that? It sounds to me like probably just getting in the reps. Yeah, I mean.

388
00:36:23.882 --> 00:36:25.864
That'S some of it, but it again.

389
00:36:25.982 --> 00:36:29.652
Goes back to work ethic and preparation.

390
00:36:29.716 --> 00:36:31.464
Control what you can control, and then.

391
00:36:31.502 --> 00:36:33.752
Accept what you can't is what I would say.

392
00:36:33.806 --> 00:36:44.216
So we have shipborne operating procedures. Know your limits, know the approach profiles, know the numbers required, so you don't.

393
00:36:44.248 --> 00:36:47.452
Have to waste any mental capacity thinking.

394
00:36:47.506 --> 00:36:58.096
Of that, and you can just kind of focus on the task at hand. That concept likely rings true for a lot of things when it comes to flight training is that we have thousands and thousands of pages of publications which.

395
00:36:58.118 --> 00:36:59.808
You know but to be able to.

396
00:36:59.814 --> 00:37:04.996
Parse through that, understand the important things and commit those things to memory in.

397
00:37:05.018 --> 00:37:10.276
Order to allow you the capacity to get the job done is probably the.

398
00:37:10.298 --> 00:37:12.212
Only thing that can really prepare you.

399
00:37:12.266 --> 00:37:14.804
I'd say how much are you away.

400
00:37:14.842 --> 00:37:16.464
From home flying the Cyclone?

401
00:37:16.592 --> 00:37:23.572
I kind of alluded to this with kind of my personal sailing schedule. And depending on who you ask, it's always quite varied.

402
00:37:23.716 --> 00:37:25.636
I guess some of it comes down to luck.

403
00:37:25.748 --> 00:37:26.568
It is.

404
00:37:26.734 --> 00:37:30.748
I happen to be more of a seaborne guy than an overland guy.

405
00:37:30.914 --> 00:37:33.148
There are people in squadron that are.

406
00:37:33.154 --> 00:37:49.788
More overland than seaborne, and they end up doing, uh, the ferry flights, and they end up doing east west transfers. And there was a cyclone here only, uh, about a week, week and a half ago, and they were doing essentially an east west transfer and a cross country PR tour.

407
00:37:49.964 --> 00:37:50.040
Nice.

408
00:37:50.040 --> 00:37:52.690
Uh, at the same time, which was awesome to see.

409
00:37:53.140 --> 00:37:59.028
But in terms of deploying, it's typically a six month sale, usually maybe a.

410
00:37:59.034 --> 00:38:01.204
Little bit under, a little bit over, give or take a month.

411
00:38:01.242 --> 00:38:05.404
And then they do have smaller operations.

412
00:38:05.472 --> 00:38:09.668
Or multinational operations, say, off the coast or down in Autec off the coast.

413
00:38:09.684 --> 00:38:11.944
Of the Bahamas and those can be.

414
00:38:11.982 --> 00:38:13.736
Two to three months as well.

415
00:38:13.918 --> 00:38:17.288
So it's varied, but expect if you're.

416
00:38:17.304 --> 00:38:19.096
Going to be a maritime helicopter pilot.

417
00:38:19.128 --> 00:38:22.360
That you will deploy at least twice.

418
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:28.120
In your first tour as a copilot and hopefully eventually an aircraft captain for.

419
00:38:28.210 --> 00:38:36.508
At least nine months, at most 15 months. Okay, so you can expect to deploy.

420
00:38:36.604 --> 00:38:38.672
Once every two years type thing.

421
00:38:38.726 --> 00:38:50.192
Exactly. I deployed in 2018, 2020, and in the middle of that I did a three month stint down in Autech as well, so down off the coast of Florida. And I mean, that one wasn't too tough.

422
00:38:50.256 --> 00:38:51.652
Yeah, right, but it's still time away.

423
00:38:51.706 --> 00:39:12.216
It is, it is time away. And again, if you take for example, what this last crew just did, they I believe, took a month to just hit a bunch of different stops in terms of trying to cultivate some interest in the Cyclone, doing some recruiting for the RCIF so you can be away from home domestically as well, mhm, in certain cases.

424
00:39:12.248 --> 00:39:15.276
So because we are a fleet that.

425
00:39:15.378 --> 00:39:19.804
Is able to kind of do a little bit of everything, there's a chance that you can get tasked to do.

426
00:39:19.842 --> 00:39:20.716
A little bit of everything.

427
00:39:20.818 --> 00:39:25.184
So it sounds like you need to be prepared if you want to fly the Cyclone for a fair bit of time away.

428
00:39:25.302 --> 00:39:31.216
Yeah, I'd say so in the operational sense, for sure. In terms of that career progression that we talked about, there's a couple of.

429
00:39:31.238 --> 00:39:33.312
Other things that you can end up doing.

430
00:39:33.366 --> 00:39:50.756
You're a little bit of a master your own domain as well. So I talked about myself going the MTP route. You can then parry over as well to 406 and become a maritime helicopter instructor pilot and teach and that course keeps you at home right, as well. And then there's those other positions and standards, et cetera.

431
00:39:50.868 --> 00:40:06.060
Something that I've come to realize in the last couple of years is that as pilots, most of us, we just want to fly. We want to fly and we want to be, most of us operational. We all joined to be at the pointy end and that's kind of what we want, especially when we're new, right?

432
00:40:06.130 --> 00:40:06.556
Yeah.

433
00:40:06.658 --> 00:40:33.232
But there is a reason that they kind of ideally would say, okay, you do four years operational, four years out of school, two or three years in a ground position and then back to operational because that actually gets you a chance to not be burnt out if you do all that time. So I just counted out ten years. If you do ten years operational, there's a pretty good chance you're going to be really burnt out. It's going to be very hard on your family because you're going to be gone every couple of years for half a year or more. That's really tough.

434
00:40:33.296 --> 00:40:47.928
Absolutely. And I think it's a real disservice to you as a pilot as well because there's so many things that you could gain and acquire from being in Squadron mhm. So that opportunity to kind of become a flight safety specialist or an HPMA.

435
00:40:48.024 --> 00:40:53.080
Specialist or human performance and military aviation is, ah, HPMA.

436
00:40:53.160 --> 00:41:08.540
So there's all these opportunities in squadron to learn about very important concepts of aviation outside of actually being on the controls that's right. That you don't really get the opportunity to focus on doing deployed operations.

437
00:41:08.700 --> 00:41:09.024
Yeah.

438
00:41:09.062 --> 00:41:10.860
There's more to being a pilot than just flying.

439
00:41:10.940 --> 00:41:11.570
Yeah.

440
00:41:12.020 --> 00:41:34.632
And even a school, a lot of people don't want to go to a school, which I think is crazy, but learning to be an instructor is huge. You learn so much about the art of flying, uh, when you have to learn to take it from being kind of instinctive to saying it and explaining it to somebody and putting it into words and showing them how to do it.

441
00:41:34.686 --> 00:41:35.290
Yeah.

442
00:41:36.460 --> 00:41:37.676
What would you say was your best.

443
00:41:37.698 --> 00:41:42.812
Day on the Cyclone? My best day on the Cyclone was.

444
00:41:42.866 --> 00:41:55.184
Probably my first accomplishment of the Cyclone. The transition from the Sea King to the Cyclone was, of course, a challenging one and a challenging one for command as well. They gave priority for the most part.

445
00:41:55.222 --> 00:42:00.536
In the initial conversion training to seasoned.

446
00:42:00.668 --> 00:42:02.368
Or at least a little bit seasoned.

447
00:42:02.464 --> 00:42:06.756
Lightly seasoned MH pilots that had a.

448
00:42:06.778 --> 00:42:11.492
Qualification in the Sea King. I, um, as well as one other.

449
00:42:11.546 --> 00:42:16.564
Individual, happened to be the first unseasoned.

450
00:42:16.612 --> 00:42:22.890
The abenishio, untouched pilots. So they loaded two of us on conversion training, one.

451
00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:24.424
And it was a bit of an.

452
00:42:24.462 --> 00:42:26.388
Experiment to see kind of how we.

453
00:42:26.414 --> 00:42:29.196
Would measure up against individuals with a.

454
00:42:29.218 --> 00:42:30.350
Little bit more time.

455
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:34.328
And because they had kind of earmarked.

456
00:42:34.344 --> 00:42:44.096
Me for that first deployment, they pushed the pace a little bit. So I was a little bit actually I mean, it's almost consistent with all of my pilot training feeling a little.

457
00:42:44.118 --> 00:42:46.224
Bit behind the eight ball or having.

458
00:42:46.262 --> 00:42:54.036
To try that much harder because I didn't have any aviation experience or whatever the case kind of may be. Knowing that I was a little bit.

459
00:42:54.058 --> 00:42:56.644
Under the microscope, i, uh, put that.

460
00:42:56.682 --> 00:43:04.636
Much more effort in and I was the first to finish the course along with a major that was, again, like a 4000 hours pilot.

461
00:43:04.688 --> 00:43:04.952
Okay.

462
00:43:05.006 --> 00:43:05.656
Wow.

463
00:43:05.838 --> 00:43:17.720
So that accomplishment, I remember it quite vividly. I was walking back from the aircraft and the CEO was out there to kind of meet me and again gave that kind of cautious look like, how did he do?

464
00:43:17.790 --> 00:43:18.616
How did he do?

465
00:43:18.718 --> 00:43:28.604
Is it good to go? And I was flying with Captain McDonald at the time and, uh, he kind of gave the thumbs up. He said, good enough to be a copilot, and kind of gave a smirk and that was that.

466
00:43:28.642 --> 00:43:32.236
So that walk probably from the aircraft.

467
00:43:32.268 --> 00:43:35.312
Back to the hangar was a pretty proud moment for me.

468
00:43:35.446 --> 00:43:36.784
It's a great feeling, isn't it?

469
00:43:36.822 --> 00:43:37.680
It is, yeah.

470
00:43:37.830 --> 00:43:40.844
How long is the Otu variable?

471
00:43:40.972 --> 00:43:41.660
Ideally?

472
00:43:41.740 --> 00:43:45.012
Ideally, I feel like you can get through it in four to six months.

473
00:43:45.066 --> 00:43:45.476
Okay.

474
00:43:45.578 --> 00:43:45.844
Yeah.

475
00:43:45.882 --> 00:43:51.492
Which is a bit of a slog. A lot of people's otu is quite short on the aurora. We're about nine months.

476
00:43:51.546 --> 00:43:51.764
Eight.

477
00:43:51.802 --> 00:43:52.212
Nine months.

478
00:43:52.266 --> 00:43:52.676
Yeah.

479
00:43:52.778 --> 00:43:57.432
Four to six months is quite long, too. It's another whole flying course, for sure.

480
00:43:57.486 --> 00:43:59.912
And, I mean, it's likely the same.

481
00:43:59.966 --> 00:44:01.976
Probably more so for you guys, maybe.

482
00:44:02.078 --> 00:44:06.232
But we're a little bit limited by weather as well.

483
00:44:06.286 --> 00:44:09.464
So it depends the time of year that you're there.

484
00:44:09.582 --> 00:44:12.556
The aircraft service ability again, a couple.

485
00:44:12.578 --> 00:44:13.868
Of variables come into play.

486
00:44:13.954 --> 00:44:14.572
Yeah, for sure.

487
00:44:14.626 --> 00:44:38.292
I mean, you need a few days. Uh, the aircraft are capable in all weather, but you, as a student, need certain weather to go out and actually be able to see what you're doing. And you can go out in some bad weather because that's a good experience, too. But you can't do every flight in bad weather because you need a chance to go out and have the visual reference is and be able to see what it looks like to see a ship from 20 miles away or to have a horizon to practice some of the things you need to do.

488
00:44:38.346 --> 00:44:44.368
Exactly. And there is an overwater component. There's not a shipborn operation component, but there's an over water component where you'll.

489
00:44:44.384 --> 00:44:46.750
Go out and again, dip lower, uh.

490
00:44:46.986 --> 00:44:55.668
The sonar, raise the sonar, all the rest of that stuff. And if you don't have the limits over the water, or if you have some equipment, stuff like the aircraft flying.

491
00:44:55.684 --> 00:44:57.896
But the equipment might be us or.

492
00:44:57.918 --> 00:45:02.092
Ops restricted or stuff like that, so there's just some delays can pop up.

493
00:45:02.146 --> 00:45:05.036
Yes, for sure. So if that was your best day.

494
00:45:05.058 --> 00:45:06.156
On the cyclone, what would you say.

495
00:45:06.178 --> 00:45:07.148
Was your hardest day?

496
00:45:07.234 --> 00:45:11.772
Hardest day on the cyclone, when I was in control of the cyclone was a deployed mission.

497
00:45:11.836 --> 00:45:13.952
It was just one of those days.

498
00:45:14.006 --> 00:45:19.248
And I think that most pilots will, at some point have something similar where.

499
00:45:19.414 --> 00:45:22.400
The weather may or may not be in limits.

500
00:45:22.560 --> 00:45:28.868
It was a night operation. There was a risk of clear Icing at, uh, an altitude that we were.

501
00:45:28.874 --> 00:45:32.484
Planning to operate below, but not a lot below.

502
00:45:32.602 --> 00:45:34.516
The significance of clear Icing is that.

503
00:45:34.538 --> 00:45:35.808
It tends to be pretty severe.

504
00:45:35.904 --> 00:45:39.700
Yeah. So it can weigh you down pretty quickly and put you in a bad spot.

505
00:45:39.860 --> 00:45:40.872
And it was a night op.

506
00:45:40.926 --> 00:45:58.110
So I was looking at the weather and kind of humming and hawing. It was one of those things where I looked to my debt commander for a little bit of guidance as an aircraft captain, and I said, Would you go? He looked at it a little bit. It was a very dark night as well. Millilux was down.

507
00:45:58.410 --> 00:46:00.428
Uh, and he said, yeah, I'd go.

508
00:46:00.594 --> 00:46:00.972
Sorry.

509
00:46:01.026 --> 00:46:02.316
What was down the millilux.

510
00:46:02.348 --> 00:46:07.020
So that was just a very dark night. There was not a lot of ambient light from the moon.

511
00:46:07.100 --> 00:46:19.716
Okay, so anyways, we gear up, we're over the Arctic Sea. So north in northern Norway, we take off, deploy from the ship. I lose visual of the ship go.

512
00:46:19.738 --> 00:46:22.768
To turn on my night vision goggles, and I get a goggle failure.

513
00:46:22.864 --> 00:46:23.796
Oh, wow.

514
00:46:23.978 --> 00:46:26.676
Now, typically in that regime, we have.

515
00:46:26.698 --> 00:46:31.576
Two battery packs and then you just kind of flick it over to the other, the other side and they come back on.

516
00:46:31.678 --> 00:46:35.016
I attempted that unsuccessful as well.

517
00:46:35.038 --> 00:46:46.492
I hand control to the copilot who's already on Goggles. And we have something on the cyclone called Rips, which is an ice detection system, essentially. And it gives you the metric, actually.

518
00:46:46.546 --> 00:46:48.924
Like, uh, how do I explain that?

519
00:46:48.962 --> 00:46:50.204
Like how bad icing is.

520
00:46:50.242 --> 00:46:54.732
Yeah, essentially it'll say, okay, while you're picking up some light Icing, some moderate Icing, some severe.

521
00:46:54.796 --> 00:46:55.264
Okay.

522
00:46:55.382 --> 00:47:02.928
And the rip system kicks in almost immediately. We're at about 200ft and it just starts to peg over into the severe Icing.

523
00:47:03.104 --> 00:47:05.876
And I can't see any, so that.

524
00:47:05.898 --> 00:47:07.956
Was probably my worst day.

525
00:47:08.058 --> 00:47:11.924
Anyways, I ended up taking control back.

526
00:47:11.962 --> 00:47:19.364
We're off goggles. My MHTC taco was on the radio. We got back behind the ship, executed a landing.

527
00:47:19.492 --> 00:47:23.000
Turns out the cord was frayed to.

528
00:47:23.070 --> 00:47:26.660
The box that actually holds the battery. So there is no hope for goggles.

529
00:47:26.740 --> 00:47:28.276
For me, uh, that day.

530
00:47:28.318 --> 00:47:53.584
But got back behind the ship, landed on, avoided the Icing, and just kind of carried on. But again, speaking to one of those moments that makes you think is you're only about 100ft because we hit ice at 200, so we're between zero and 200ft over water. Black night flying off the rattle. We have like the one little light out in the distance, uh, to try to get back, to navigate, to land.

531
00:47:53.622 --> 00:47:57.940
To anyways, that was the end of my night. That night, that was the worst one.

532
00:47:58.010 --> 00:47:59.908
Really intense. That's crazy.

533
00:47:59.994 --> 00:48:07.016
Yeah, but I mean, those experiences are what help you grow, what help you learn. Again, the struggle is kind of what gets you there and it gives you.

534
00:48:07.038 --> 00:48:10.200
Just, um, another sense of airmanship.

535
00:48:11.180 --> 00:48:28.976
Listeners who are listening carefully will notice that for that last answer you started with your worst day while you were at the controls of the cyclone. On April 29, 2020, stalker 22 crashed into the Ionian Sea while operating from the HMCS Frederickton, killing all on board. Can you tell us about how that.

536
00:48:28.998 --> 00:48:32.130
Day went for you that day?

537
00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:32.900
Um.

538
00:48:35.540 --> 00:48:48.084
The easy answer is obviously it was massively difficult. You're almost putting, uh, a kind of a tailspin trying to cultivate information as.

539
00:48:48.122 --> 00:48:53.372
Best you can, when of course, the opposite is employed in the calf.

540
00:48:53.536 --> 00:48:56.580
Communications go down intentionally.

541
00:48:56.660 --> 00:48:59.204
Intentionally, for sure. So people that are, that are immediately.

542
00:48:59.252 --> 00:49:04.136
Involved are dealing with the tragedy, with.

543
00:49:04.158 --> 00:49:06.376
The accident, and you're just kind of.

544
00:49:06.398 --> 00:49:09.550
On the sidelines working to try to.

545
00:49:10.080 --> 00:49:17.196
Gather as much information as possible just to give you some sort of semblance of control. So that's how I remember the day.

546
00:49:17.378 --> 00:49:25.056
Was pacing, essentially trying to figure out who the crews were who were on.

547
00:49:25.078 --> 00:49:31.492
Board, how the crews would have been kind of broken up. The first reports that came out mentioned.

548
00:49:31.546 --> 00:49:34.864
A Sea King vice cyclone out of Greece.

549
00:49:34.912 --> 00:49:40.644
And uh, it was just trying to verify what information was credible the best.

550
00:49:40.682 --> 00:49:44.328
Way that you could. And that's just kind of how I remember it.

551
00:49:44.334 --> 00:49:47.384
And then again, just touching base with.

552
00:49:47.582 --> 00:49:52.296
Immediate friends, trying to just deal with.

553
00:49:52.318 --> 00:49:54.344
It collectively to see who's safe and.

554
00:49:54.382 --> 00:49:58.492
Just see who's safe and see who knows what, uh, for the most part.

555
00:49:58.546 --> 00:50:06.508
But it was obviously very erratic. Uh, and that's the best way that.

556
00:50:06.514 --> 00:50:12.320
I can explain how the initial day went. And then of course, as more information.

557
00:50:12.470 --> 00:50:16.156
Came in, it was very piecemeal, unverified.

558
00:50:16.268 --> 00:50:18.240
And you just kind of wait until.

559
00:50:18.390 --> 00:50:26.836
Command calls you in to give you actual details. So uh, after the dust sort of.

560
00:50:26.858 --> 00:50:28.724
Settled and a little bit of time.

561
00:50:28.762 --> 00:50:30.950
Went on, how did you find that affected you?

562
00:50:33.500 --> 00:50:54.360
The only positives that you can draw, really, is how the maritime helicopter community came together. I found a lot of support from people in that community. Again, those friendships that you cultivate were, I think, for a lot of people, very important in working through the tragedy.

563
00:50:54.520 --> 00:51:02.140
And uh, you again wait for answers.

564
00:51:02.580 --> 00:51:10.210
Not that answers make anything any better or worse. I think it kind of gives you, again, that semblance of of control.

565
00:51:10.680 --> 00:51:20.928
But with anything of this nature, there's a time aspect that is very hard to appreciate.

566
00:51:21.104 --> 00:51:53.070
I don't know if you remember it as uh, obviously as vividly as I do, but the equipment required to recover the uncertainty of kind of where it was in the state of everybody there uh, was a period of time in there where you just didn't know what was going on. And for me, I kind of found comfort in just kind of dealing with those realities with people in the community, the uh, MH community and the Nova Scotian community. There was a lot of support that was around at the time.

567
00:51:54.560 --> 00:51:56.204
Do you think that doing that and.

568
00:51:56.242 --> 00:52:04.356
Dealing with it in that way has allowed you to have a degree of closure, to move on in a way that's healthy? Or are you still working through it in some ways?

569
00:52:04.458 --> 00:52:05.488
I mean, I don't think that you're.

570
00:52:05.504 --> 00:52:08.230
Ever not working through it.

571
00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:22.776
You understand aviation, uh, in general, but more so military aviation, there's risks associated with more complex flying, for sure. But no, I don't think over it is a thing that you ever get.

572
00:52:22.798 --> 00:52:25.176
To in terms of dealing with it.

573
00:52:25.198 --> 00:52:34.184
In terms of outlets. The military as well as the community, the military themselves have come a long way in terms of providing different supports.

574
00:52:34.232 --> 00:52:37.548
Operational stress, injury stuff, and kind of.

575
00:52:37.554 --> 00:52:42.620
Mental health pieces to help work through these types of events.

576
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:46.544
And then secondarily, again, discussing that stuff.

577
00:52:46.582 --> 00:52:53.716
With people that have had similar experiences or the same experiences certainly help, but I think it's always kind of a.

578
00:52:53.738 --> 00:52:57.364
Constant self check here and there to.

579
00:52:57.402 --> 00:52:59.220
Make sure that you're kind of doing.

580
00:52:59.290 --> 00:53:01.284
Okay with that type of stuff.

581
00:53:01.482 --> 00:53:04.408
Thanks for opening up about that. I know it's not easy.

582
00:53:04.494 --> 00:53:10.360
No, uh, it's certainly, ah, a tough subject to broach and to reflect on.

583
00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:12.472
Um thank you.

584
00:53:12.526 --> 00:53:13.130
Yeah.

585
00:53:14.860 --> 00:53:15.924
Shifting gears.

586
00:53:16.052 --> 00:53:17.384
What would you say are the most.

587
00:53:17.422 --> 00:53:19.952
Memorable flights you've had while flying the Cyclone?

588
00:53:20.116 --> 00:53:22.990
Most memorable flight that I had was.

589
00:53:23.680 --> 00:53:24.876
I think it had to have been.

590
00:53:24.898 --> 00:53:28.132
About a four, four and a half hour long flight. It was in the Lithuania.

591
00:53:28.216 --> 00:53:34.944
And my MHCC, uh, at the time, Major Pete Tomlik, now, he, um, had.

592
00:53:34.982 --> 00:53:41.772
This idea of pretty much executing a medevac diver deployment.

593
00:53:41.916 --> 00:53:45.492
A Folks will transfer into Lithuania in.

594
00:53:45.546 --> 00:53:46.976
Consort with the Lithuanians.

595
00:53:47.008 --> 00:53:47.908
And this was all training.

596
00:53:47.994 --> 00:53:53.270
This was all training, but it was like a obviously multinational training kind of event.

597
00:53:54.120 --> 00:53:56.920
So the idea being there was somebody.

598
00:53:56.990 --> 00:54:00.644
In the water, you had to go pick them up, deploy some divers, recover.

599
00:54:00.692 --> 00:54:05.812
Them, bring them back to the ship, they get some medical attention, you hoist.

600
00:54:05.876 --> 00:54:14.204
Them down onto the Folks, which is the front of the ship. So you're kind of doing some sidewards flight into a ship that's floating into.

601
00:54:14.242 --> 00:54:17.212
You, essentially driving into you, and from.

602
00:54:17.266 --> 00:54:22.728
There getting some sort of semblance of medical attention, and then airlifting them into Lithuania.

603
00:54:22.904 --> 00:54:25.728
And it was, again, I was a.

604
00:54:25.734 --> 00:54:45.044
Pretty junior aircraft captain. I was pretty nervous in terms of just the complexity of two, three. Typically you spend a lot of time just kind of briefing one of those four aspects. But, uh, it was certainly probably my most memorable flight in terms of doing the business, doing the job, and that.

605
00:54:45.082 --> 00:54:46.628
Kind of dynamic flying.

606
00:54:46.804 --> 00:54:48.776
Were you intimidated when you found out.

607
00:54:48.798 --> 00:54:49.770
That was the plan?

608
00:54:50.380 --> 00:55:04.556
Yes, I was. I could admit it after the fact at the time, I got, no, it's not a big deal. But yeah, when I found out what the plan was, there is a little bit of intimidation, for sure. So I was an aircraft captain with a junior co pilot, pretty green, and.

609
00:55:04.578 --> 00:55:08.344
Then had, uh, a new Ish crew commander.

610
00:55:08.472 --> 00:55:19.260
So the crew commander came over from 406. He spent a lot of time there just teaching. So, not a new crew commander, but new to operational, uh, cycle.

611
00:55:19.340 --> 00:55:19.776
Right.

612
00:55:19.878 --> 00:55:33.732
So there was a lot of learning that was going on. And honestly, again, the best way to learn is under stress sometimes. And it was a pretty complex thing, but, uh, it was well executed. And, uh, again, one of those things you come back from and you're like, man, that was cool.

613
00:55:33.786 --> 00:55:34.756
That was great that we pulled that.

614
00:55:34.778 --> 00:55:37.464
Off, that we pulled that off. And everything went well. Yeah.

615
00:55:37.502 --> 00:55:40.920
So it was one of the good ones. Okay.

616
00:55:40.990 --> 00:55:49.828
It's sales pitch time in 30 seconds or less. If I'm a pilot in training, why should I want to fly the cyclone? What makes it unique, and who would it appeal to?

617
00:55:49.934 --> 00:55:53.644
Okay, number one, pay. Now, I don't know what the pay.

618
00:55:53.682 --> 00:55:59.512
Difference is now, because they're kind of amending those, but at one point, I believe we were the highest paid pilots in the Canadian forces.

619
00:55:59.576 --> 00:55:59.948
Okay.

620
00:56:00.034 --> 00:56:06.268
Reason being is especially, I think, if we were in halifax, because PLD, which is getting yeah, I was getting changed.

621
00:56:06.284 --> 00:56:07.280
So that'll be gone.

622
00:56:07.350 --> 00:56:09.884
No promises, but you get air crew.

623
00:56:09.932 --> 00:56:13.024
Pay and CPAY on top of your normal pilot pay.

624
00:56:13.062 --> 00:56:13.984
So pay was a big one.

625
00:56:14.022 --> 00:56:16.172
Well, they'll still be getting, I would think, CPAY.

626
00:56:16.236 --> 00:56:18.132
They get the CPAY air crew is.

627
00:56:18.186 --> 00:56:18.816
Part of your salary.

628
00:56:18.848 --> 00:56:22.788
Part of your salary now. So there might be some amendments. I don't know how it's I didn't look too close.

629
00:56:22.874 --> 00:56:25.149
Okay. But the second one, we already kind.

630
00:56:25.149 --> 00:56:33.864
Of talked about flying in general. That kind of flying is unmatched. I feel maybe four, two, seven. They must do something over there, I.

631
00:56:33.902 --> 00:56:35.572
Feel, is in the mix.

632
00:56:35.716 --> 00:56:41.384
But outside of that, this is the most dynamic helicopter flying the Canadian forces, in my opinion I'm biased.

633
00:56:41.512 --> 00:56:41.804
Sorry.

634
00:56:41.842 --> 00:56:46.104
Guys will tell you different, tacau will tell you different. So we're all just going to argue and agree to disagree.

635
00:56:46.232 --> 00:56:50.152
And the third is travel. So port stops.

636
00:56:50.296 --> 00:57:04.004
So the one thing, just think of the navy as like, a very terrible cruise ship, but you get to go to a lot of cool places. So my first appointment was in the mediterranean. I hit sicily, I hit egypt, I.

637
00:57:04.042 --> 00:57:09.328
Hit croatia, I hit north africa, I hit israel.

638
00:57:09.424 --> 00:57:12.080
So there's a lot of and of course, spain, portugal.

639
00:57:12.160 --> 00:57:12.452
Wow.

640
00:57:12.506 --> 00:57:23.192
You get to hit all of these different destinations every I mean, it could be as much as every two weeks, could be as long as once a month. But it's the only community, I feel.

641
00:57:23.246 --> 00:57:24.984
Where you get to see all these.

642
00:57:25.022 --> 00:57:29.412
Different places, because there's just different stops on the, uh scheduled on the deployment.

643
00:57:29.476 --> 00:57:29.812
Yeah.

644
00:57:29.886 --> 00:57:44.844
So I've been lucky enough to see the mediterranean side of it, and then the second time that I was deployed, it was more up in the baltic. So norway, denmark, france, I've seen a lot more of the world than some of my counterparts.

645
00:57:44.972 --> 00:57:47.010
What kind of a person would it appeal to?

646
00:57:47.640 --> 00:57:49.436
Um, I think that it would appeal.

647
00:57:49.468 --> 00:57:55.636
To someone with, number one, a high tolerance. Because, again, when you kind of high.

648
00:57:55.658 --> 00:58:04.832
Tolerance for what just in general, again, the type of flying some people don't deal well with that kind of high stress flying.

649
00:58:04.976 --> 00:58:10.168
Right. So kind of that adventure seeker, as I feel, is what I think it.

650
00:58:10.174 --> 00:58:22.876
Would mostly appeal to for me. And I think a lot of people that are like, minded. You want to get your deployments out. I think that's anywhere, though, you want to get those out early in terms of getting that operational experience, for sure.

651
00:58:22.898 --> 00:58:25.596
Or you have a family, being away.

652
00:58:25.618 --> 00:58:37.600
From home, no matter what community you're in, is never great. And these deployments are six months where I think, um, a lot of the times, and correct me if I'm wrong, but in the fixed, uh, wing side, it's more of three months.

653
00:58:37.670 --> 00:58:40.160
Yeah, it's typically two to three months. Yeah.

654
00:58:40.230 --> 00:58:51.620
So, I mean, that differs for us, it's usually six. So somebody that is either single or is ready to kind of commit to that amount of time away.

655
00:58:51.690 --> 00:58:51.876
Yeah.

656
00:58:51.898 --> 00:58:54.112
You need to have that independent spouse.

657
00:58:54.256 --> 00:58:54.564
Yeah.

658
00:58:54.602 --> 00:59:03.480
Just kind of know what you're getting into beforehand. But I mean, hopefully you've done your research by the time you put in kind of selection type things. And that's something that you're at least aware of.

659
00:59:03.550 --> 00:59:04.570
Okay? Yeah.

660
00:59:06.220 --> 00:59:08.188
All right, we're down to our last three questions.

661
00:59:08.274 --> 00:59:08.572
Okay.

662
00:59:08.626 --> 00:59:09.596
They're always the same.

663
00:59:09.698 --> 00:59:10.350
Okay.

664
00:59:11.040 --> 00:59:15.310
What is the most important thing you do to keep yourself ready for the job study?

665
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:17.420
Always keep learning.

666
00:59:17.570 --> 00:59:31.580
And that doesn't mean that you're necessarily in the books all the time, but you learn from there's always somebody that has more hours than you that has been in similar situations, but you learn from other pilots.

667
00:59:31.740 --> 00:59:35.328
I loved, loved learning from technicians.

668
00:59:35.504 --> 00:59:39.380
I spent a lot of time, especially on my second sale, the aircraft service.

669
00:59:39.450 --> 00:59:41.476
Ability wasn't as well as it was.

670
00:59:41.498 --> 00:59:44.456
In the first sale. Like, the hours that I got were about half.

671
00:59:44.558 --> 00:59:45.112
Okay.

672
00:59:45.246 --> 01:00:11.656
But I spent a lot of time in what they call the aid on the tech manual. Um, going through some things with technicians to really understand not only that the aircraft is broken, but why the aircraft is broken, how these things work. And honestly, it's a wealth of knowledge out there. And just continue to keep learning and set your goals to what's kind of coming up next and facilitate an avenue.

673
01:00:11.688 --> 01:00:13.600
To get there best way that you can.

674
01:00:13.750 --> 01:00:22.324
I like your answer, but I like your follow up even more that studying doesn't necessarily mean being in the books, that some of your best resources are the people around you.

675
01:00:22.362 --> 01:00:23.108
For sure.

676
01:00:23.274 --> 01:00:44.568
I also really like that you mentioned the technicians because they are so knowledgeable and their documents are much more in depth than just what we call Aois, your aircraft operating instructions that have your systems and various things in them. That's typically what air crew are studying, or at least pilots are studying, for sure. But the Aedums, as you mentioned, the.

677
01:00:44.574 --> 01:00:47.336
Tech manuals that they have, are so.

678
01:00:47.358 --> 01:00:56.936
Much more in depth. And once you're ready to go into that depth level, you can learn a lot about your aircraft systems. And that really brings you up to what I think the level of knowledge.

679
01:00:56.968 --> 01:01:04.960
That a crew commander should have, for sure. I would agree. Yeah, that's really cool. What do you think makes a good pilot?

680
01:01:05.380 --> 01:01:16.244
I think first and foremost, being humble will make you a good pilot. Totally. It will humble you at some point if you think otherwise. When I started teaching deck landings, for.

681
01:01:16.282 --> 01:01:19.316
Example, it's something that I endeavored to.

682
01:01:19.338 --> 01:01:20.704
Drive into my copilot.

683
01:01:20.752 --> 01:01:27.128
It's like, do not be afraid of waving yourself off. And that was driven into my head.

684
01:01:27.214 --> 01:01:28.836
By the aircraft captain.

685
01:01:28.868 --> 01:01:33.864
That taught me. A lot of times I feel like.

686
01:01:33.902 --> 01:01:43.224
Pilots in general felt pressured to make things work when they tried to execute a landing that may not have been perfect. And just realize that it's challenging.

687
01:01:43.272 --> 01:01:45.896
And you have to check your ego.

688
01:01:45.928 --> 01:02:04.388
At the door a little bit when it comes to that kind of flying, because safety is paramount, obviously, and those two things don't usually go hand in hand when you're trying to just kind of execute a landing and you don't want to miss, and you have to kind of check that at the door. And I guess the second thing that I would say is kind of that diverse knowledge that we talked about.

689
01:02:04.554 --> 01:02:12.772
There's so much out there in terms of information or skill set for piloting in the air.

690
01:02:12.826 --> 01:02:19.290
I'd say more so in the RCIF. I had a lot of experience with deployed operations. I didn't have a ton of experience.

691
01:02:19.660 --> 01:02:29.164
In the overland side. Right. So trying to expand my knowledge in the if world, for example, flying into.

692
01:02:29.202 --> 01:02:30.824
Busy airports like for instrument flying.

693
01:02:30.872 --> 01:02:45.808
Instrument flying, or just doing VFR visual flying rules into busy airports as well. It's just something I wasn't heavily exposed to by way of being out in Halifax and by way of being overseas. So there's always things to work on.

694
01:02:45.894 --> 01:02:46.288
Right.

695
01:02:46.374 --> 01:02:48.656
So just understand that the career in.

696
01:02:48.678 --> 01:02:53.232
General is just a learning process and there's always more M. Yeah.

697
01:02:53.286 --> 01:02:55.316
And there's going to be some discomfort that comes with that.

698
01:02:55.338 --> 01:02:55.716
Right?

699
01:02:55.818 --> 01:03:00.016
Yeah, for sure. Um, it was one of the reasons.

700
01:03:00.208 --> 01:03:02.384
I asked to come out to Porters Prairie.

701
01:03:02.512 --> 01:03:06.340
Things I loved about the job were that teaching aspect.

702
01:03:06.500 --> 01:03:08.136
But on the opposite side of it.

703
01:03:08.158 --> 01:03:24.824
Things that I wasn't massively comfortable with is flying to the States cross country. It's just not something that I did while I was on my first tour ever. So I identified kind of somewhere where I think that I could improve and kind of worked that into my career.

704
01:03:24.872 --> 01:03:27.980
Plan to be a more rounded pilot.

705
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:29.390
That's great.

706
01:03:29.920 --> 01:03:31.544
All right, this is the last question.

707
01:03:31.682 --> 01:03:38.284
I want you to picture somebody who is thinking about joining or has just joined. They want to be a pilot.

708
01:03:38.412 --> 01:03:49.796
What advice would you give to that new pilot? I would say if you've just joined, I'll take that example and I'll say they do this a little bit for.

709
01:03:49.818 --> 01:03:51.076
You, but really give it thought is.

710
01:03:51.098 --> 01:03:54.196
To set goals first and foremost and.

711
01:03:54.218 --> 01:03:55.884
Then make those goals known.

712
01:03:56.032 --> 01:03:57.764
There's usually a tale of two pilots.

713
01:03:57.812 --> 01:04:02.152
I feel in the Air Force, there are pilots that seem to have wanted.

714
01:04:02.206 --> 01:04:12.060
A career progression and have gotten that career progression, and then there's a pilot that had wished for something and things.

715
01:04:12.130 --> 01:04:17.630
Just didn't line up. And I think communication comes into play in a big way.

716
01:04:18.240 --> 01:04:23.856
There are people out there in terms of career managers or even chain of.

717
01:04:23.878 --> 01:04:31.664
Command sometimes that might just say, that's not possible, understand that it's always possible and work towards those goals is kind of what I'd say.

718
01:04:31.702 --> 01:04:35.204
So I've been fortunate that, um, maybe.

719
01:04:35.242 --> 01:04:41.364
I haven't gotten absolutely everything that I've wanted, but I've been able to navigate through at least this portion of my.

720
01:04:41.402 --> 01:04:45.284
Career since joining the RCAF in a.

721
01:04:45.322 --> 01:04:55.272
Way that I at least had some sort of directed control of. And that's because I made those intentions known to my chain of command and had really candid conversations about what was possible and what's not.

722
01:04:55.406 --> 01:05:05.612
So that's kind of the advice that I would give is just, number one, do your work. And I guess first impressions are everything.

723
01:05:05.666 --> 01:05:06.968
And leave a good impression.

724
01:05:07.064 --> 01:05:12.700
And then secondly, that will parry into the ability to have those conversations about.

725
01:05:12.850 --> 01:05:14.476
What you want to do long term.

726
01:05:14.508 --> 01:05:15.792
And give us some good thought.

727
01:05:15.926 --> 01:05:17.072
That's a really great answer.

728
01:05:17.126 --> 01:05:19.984
I, uh, like that. Okay, that's going to wrap it up.

729
01:05:20.022 --> 01:05:26.852
Thank you so much, Corey, for coming in today. I know you're very busy with Instructing, and I really appreciate you taking the time out today to chat with us.

730
01:05:26.906 --> 01:05:27.364
That's great.

731
01:05:27.402 --> 01:05:29.108
Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it.

732
01:05:29.194 --> 01:05:30.340
Awesome. Cheers.

733
01:05:30.760 --> 01:06:31.300
All right, that wraps up our episode on The Cyclone with Corey O'Neill. For our next episode, I'll be sitting down with my old comrade from Aurora days, Paul Hodgson. Paul worked extensively with Canadian Forces Recruitment Group, or CFRG, and we'll be answering all your recruiting questions that were submitted by listeners as well as the Canadian Forces subreddit. Do you have any questions or comments about something you've heard in this episode or would you or someone you know make a great guest? You can reach out to us at, uh, thepilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com or on all social media at Atpod Pilot Project. As always, we'd like to thank you for your help with our growth in listenership. We've seen some huge growth this month, so rest assured, your efforts are helping us with that. We'd like to ask for your help, as always, with the big Three that's like and follow us on social media. Share with your friends and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer shut down all four shutting down all four engines.

734
01:06:35.160 --> 01:06:40.680
You subscribe.