What's up, guys? My name is John Evans. And yesterday, we had one of the greatest track coaches of all time on the podcast, and that is Boo Sheksander. So we wanna reflect on that a little bit and go over some of the things we learned. My name is John Evans.

This is Isaiah Rivera. We coach athletes athletes athletes athletes to jump higher. And so, yeah, Isaiah, it was, for me, like I said, one of the greatest experiences I've ever had as a coach, but I'm curious, what were some of the key takeaways that you had from that podcast?

The first one was how much he hammered variety as an important variable for adaptation. And we we always talk about the importance of variety in training and how it drives adaptation. Adaptation is essentially making a change in your body and the specific ones we want for jumping, which are things like type two muscle fiber hypertrophy, for example, or how much neural drive you can get from from your alpha motor neurons, tendon stiffness, things like that. And everything we do in training is essentially to try to get very specific adaptations. And your body, when it gets used to a stimulus, let's say you do my favorite five by five back squat.

If you do that for long enough, eventually you will stop responding. You could potentially even get worse if you just to that. And Boo, he just really hammered how important variety is even to a like a greater extreme than what we would do. Like one of the things he mentioned was doing squat jumps with bars of different weights and they just have a bunch of bars and the athletes just go in and set to set, they will they will do the squat bar jumps. And I think for me personally, I'm creature of habit.

I think without coaching, naturally tend to lean towards squat, clean, really heavy weights, low rep ranges, jump once a week. If left to my own devices, I wouldn't program a lot of plyos for myself either. Yeah. Even things like sprinting, for example. Actually, I'll I'll get into that one later on.

The the oh, rising tides raise all ships part.

Tides raise all ships. Yeah. So we called it the big d word, which is diversification, not the big d. And I I thought that was really interesting too because he was specifically talking about plyometrics and how he likes to integrate a lot of different ones. He likes to do them deep.

He likes to do them laterally. He likes to do unilateral, double leg, long contacts, stiff contacts, and he finds that most of the benefit of plyos diversification and not necessarily the fact that it's just a plyo. It's having a very well rounded, robust movement inventory and being able to do all of those exercises in the inventory well. I've also found that to be true coming from a background where I did a lot of different plyos. I saw a massive amount of improvement early, early on in that period.

And I think too, you know, it's the assumption is that he's nice little sports bike back back there. Oh, it's a Hyundai Elantra. So another another thing that that I found is or that I'm assuming is that he has a pretty robust progression. And and I know that because when I was watching the podcast, it was weird and I was thinking about it the other day. And I was like, listening to Boo talk and then listening to Mike talk and then listening to myself talk or my own ideas.

And I was like, oh, I really am like an iteration of Boo and then an iteration of Mike and then, you know, myself, like my own coaching.

Who he is for those

Oh, yeah. So for those of you that maybe don't know who he is, Boo coached at LSU. He was there for many, many years, and LSU has one of the most dominant track and field programs. And while you might be thinking like, oh, well, it's just college or whatever, what you have to understand about track is unlike the NFL or the NBA, the best performances from athletes can happen at the collegiate level. So if you're like an NCAA champion, it basically means that you could go to the Olympics and win a medal.

And so Boo had probably arguably one of the most successful careers as a speed power coach at the collegiate level in the jumps and sprints. And not only that, but he was he's very methodical. Like, it's it's super well thought out how he does his progressions. He actually said in the podcast, I was like, do you just go in and kinda know what you're gonna do? Do you write it out?

And he's like, no. Think it sends a bad message to the athlete, and, you know, it helps me keep track of things and things like that. And you can tell that everything is incredibly well thought out. And then taking it to the next level with Mike, Mike has worked with all those same athletes for four years. It was really cool hearing their stories, because I'd actually never heard many of those stories or seen them interact, but Boo is Mike's biggest mentor, and Mike is my biggest mentor and one of the smartest people I've ever met.

And so you see that at another level with Mike. Like Mike took everything that Boo did and then added sports tech to it, re you know, the re the newest research and things like that and applied it to to his methodology too. And then that's where, you know, I kinda come in as taking all of what Mike did and then applying a lot of the load management principles and stuff to it.

Essentially, like, we turned all that into dunking. Yeah. It it essentially was because you were classically trained as a track and field coach. And I always I always mention this during our first conversation, you always ask what would happen if you trained like a track and field athlete. And I think specifically if you were to dig into that is what would happen to you if you trained under Boo and Mike's and Yep and John's training system

Yeah.

Training methodology and reiterate it in terms of dunking. Because dunking is very different. Right? Track and field is mainly very low ground contact times, one foot jumping versus we said this in the podcast, dunking is actually more similar to something like like the throwing events. Mhmm.

And you would now see the product of what the answer to that question. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's I think if you if you guys watch the podcast too, Boot does talk a lot about the ground contact times and the differences. And that was pretty eye opening, but he the caveat to it that he also brings into kind of the conversation is that you have to get better at everything. Irrespective of whether it's a short ground contact time or a long ground contact time, yes, you want to have a level of specificity there. Yes, you know, the plyos should look more like the ground contact times that you're doing in your event.

But at the end of the day, you wanna get better at everything.

Can I add a point in there? Because it

I was done.

Oh. Oh. It's that and I I wanted to open it with what he mentioned that if you're bad at something, it's more of a reason to do it. Yeah. And especially, always before the podcast, I always saw different training variables as like, if it's nonspecific, it's not as important.

Well, actually alright. So, you know, like, specificity continuum, it's, like, general to specific. And then there's a point where it almost goes the other end. So you have, like, slow stuff. Think deep back squat four by 14 something like that.

Yeah. Then you have, like, your jump squats and your your power cleans and the weights get lighter. And then you have actual two foot jumping. Then you probably have one foot jumping, then, like, speed jumping and then sprinting. And I always considered it as, like, when you get past the continuum where, past two foot jumping essentially, like, two foot is the end to me.

You don't need to get more specific on that.

Yeah. But then he was making it he was alluding to the fact that, like, you should also be good on that end of it. And then he mentioned a story about a different track coach. I'm actually so curious who that he said it was, like, a very well known, like, track coach. And he basically, like, had he consulted with with Boo, and Boo Boo told him that he does a sprint flow sprints.

And then the track coach was, like he was basically, like, hey, like, I did I did the sprint float sprints, and, my my guys were really bad on, like, the the last half of it. And then he was, like, then that means they need to do it. Yeah. And I I gave the analogy I've already given in this podcast, like, there was, a dude, a Buddhist monk talking to a guy and then he was like, meditate like ten minutes every morning. And then the guy was like he was like some business dude.

He's like, oh, don't have ten minutes in the morning. And then the monk was like, that means you need to meditate for an hour every morning. And same thing with power cleans. I think we connected it to cleans. It's like people give not like the power clean being hard in terms of coordination as a reason to not do it, but it's actually a reason you should do it.

Yeah. And he talked about the sequencing in the clean. Oh, it's very, like it teaches you timing, coordination of your lambs when you run and jump. And, yes, something being hard and you sucking at it is, like, more of a reason to do it to do it and get good at it, even if it might be nonspecific to what to what

you do. Yeah. And I think it was really interesting too when we asked about the Olympic lifts, and he was like, we keep them in year round. You know, kind of like to that point, he's like he's like, every time we take it out, they get worse. Like, why would you not do Olympic lifts?

Any program that takes them out, their athletes just get worse. And I thought that was really interesting. And I've heard a few different lectures from him through, you know, other coaches that have gone to seminars or to conferences and stuff like that. And it was interesting. It's just interesting hearing it straight kind of out of the horse's mouth.

Like, Okay, this is a major point of focus and emphasis for us in in our program. So I think that was that was really, really eye opening. And then one thing that maybe I thought was just really interesting is how impressive as Coach's Eye was or is. I think it's easy to forget how good these older coaches are at just watching something and knowing whether it's good or bad without any data. You know, I think a lot of the time, you and I, I I can do it, I can be like, oh, that was that was really good.

But maybe the the time doesn't, you know, necessarily match with what it looked like or something else. And that is one of my strengths is being able to just tell when something is good or when it's bad.

We we gamify it too. Like, we'll literally yesterday, we gamified it with RSI. Yeah. Like, you and Lewis were like I was like, oh, what do think that RSI was? And then and then you just sped out the number.

Was within, like, point one. We do it with verticals all the Like, I think we actually have pretty good

Jumping's easy. Spring's hard. Spring is hard. Spring is really hard because it could look really good, but you're running really slow. And so if you're not around really fast people really, really often, I know when mechanics look good.

I can tell when guys are chopping. I can tell when they're just kinda like tapping the ground. Especially with you when I watch you sprint, I can just tell. When I watch you run, was like, dude, you're sitting. Like, I can just see it.

And then I watch Usain Bolt, and I'm like, this is a prime I like screenshotted it, I was like, is what I'm talking when I say sitting.

That was really interesting to see when you sent the comparison where it was essentially exact same position, but I was softer at the knee and ankle.

Yep. And so I think keeping in mind that these guys are just so finely tuned with their coach's eye, and they can just watch things and know whether it's good or bad and know whether that's going to move the needle or not. So those were the big I mean, at least off the top of my head, those were the big takeaways. The other thing I really enjoyed was the storytelling about athletes they've worked with. Because I'm used to the I was very used to the track and field world, but I've gotten away from it being with a lot of dunkers.

And so when you have a guy like Boo and and Mike on there and they're like, oh, yeah. Like, Walter Davis was the freakiest athlete ever.

I was thinking he would be a great dunker.

He probably would.

When you were describing him

Yeah.

I was like, injury prone, like, fall body falls apart, but then he's insanely high outputs, especially if you give him some time to produce force. I was like, this would be like a Jay Clark, like, two point o probably.

Yeah. Just like in yeah. Jay Clark is another, like, freak freak athlete, but you I think a lot of people forget that track is full of those guys, you know? Yeah. Like, this guy seemingly could have ran Boo was, yeah, 80 meters down the, you know, the track.

He's taken off his his one his one piece and just, like, jogging it out and couldn't, you know, couldn't stay healthy enough to run it. But they made it seem like he was going to run-in the low tens or something like that. Like, just, you know, we asked him at the combine what he would do, they're like, oh, he'd test in the forties, you know, mid forties standing, run a four one, which I was like, holy shit, that's so fast. And then broad jump twelve six. And for perspective, our broad jumps the other day were like or you guys were what?

Like around the high tens and stuff like that?

Low tens. Low tens? Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, obviously, that's not like an ideal conditions, but it just really goes to show you how freaky these track and field athletes are. And another thing I asked him is like, how do you, you know, how do you work with those talents? How do you know how much volume to give them? Because they're so they're already so good.

And, you know, I mentioned Dan and stuff like that, and he's like, well, I mean, that's kind of same thing. Like, you just watch practice and you can tell, you know, who's gonna who's gonna be able to handle those volumes and who's who's not, and just knowing when to cut it and and different athletes. And then he also gave another story of an athlete that one year in didn't improve at all and the next year had like a three foot, it was like a four foot PR. Yeah, was like a four foot PR. And I think it's really a good testament to how long it takes to really achieve your genetic potential and really see the fruits of your labor, you know, kind of take over.

And we've seen that happen with you. Like, you know, you train super hard for a year or two and then your vertical doesn't budge and then boom, one day you go out and you you test three inches higher. And he also said this and I have said this in a couple of my videos, like you can't you can't force an athlete to jump their highest or you can't you're not a puppeteer. You you can't make them do everything they need to do on the day.

Like a he he mentioned like adrenaline and feeling. He said adrenaline and being healthy is gonna play more of a determinant on if you're gonna jump high on the day than what your year of training

Yeah.

Look like. Or if you're like periodized it and perfectly and unloaded when you're supposed to. Like adrenaline and how healthy you feel is gonna play a bigger role. Like and I've seen that. Yeah.

Like, I've been in my absolute like, I've I've been looking at as I've been trying to find videos, like old videos to post. And I looked back at some of these dunk camps that I did, 2023, 2024 specifically, when I was like, I had some pretty bad injuries tore my IT band one year, That was 2023. And then 2024, just over jumped when we were doing a we were testing very intense training methods, knowing the risks. But when I look at those dunk camps, I'm hitting like nine six, nine seven flight times.

Mhmm.

Out of shape. Like, I'm out of shape. Like, when you look at me now so it's like just being in a high adrenaline environment Alone could is insane. Like, you think about, like, me with my outputs now and then add that environment, like, would probably be ridiculous. Like This

would would be a fun word game that maybe we'll save for next time, but it's like adrenaline verse, good training. Adrenaline verse. Like, adrenaline is the great equalizer.

I have the last, thing that was a big takeaway for me, and it's relevant to what what I just said. And he said because I I mentioned traditional periodization. He's like, does that even mean? Like, what is traditional periodization? Like, that's just what just because it was awesome book fifty years ago.

Like, that's, like, tradi and then he mentioned, he was like, it's just stack good training for a long period of time. Mhmm. Like, that is more probably more important. I I think under the lens of periodize it, according to how he periodizes probably, but it's still, like, stack good training. Like, don't get hurt.

And it's relevant. Remember when we were pulling up to the field yesterday?

Yeah.

And I was like I was like, guys, it was Josh and Donovan, were warming and John, we were all warming up. I get there I got or, yeah, Dom and Josh. And I got there a little late. And I'm like, guys, like, today's the last day of the training cycle. I was meditating this morning, and it hit me.

That's always when when stuff hits me for some reason. And I was like, and it hit me. It's just like, don't be a hero today. Just get through the workout. Like, just come out of it's the last day of the training cycle.

Like, we just got to pull out of this and then you unload and you're probably going to jump high next week. Like, if you feel something with sprint, cut it, like, just don't be a hero. And yeah, it's like, it was relevant for the podcast because it's just like, just stack good days. Like always on the safe side of things. We were talking about muscle pulls about how, like, with tendons, you can work through a little bit of pain, but then, like, muscle pulls, it's like if you feel something grabbing and you're used to tendon pain, you might push and then you're cooked if you push.

But it's like if you feel something, just like cut it. Like, you can you can literally destroy, like, one rep deciding to do one extra rep when you shouldn't can destroy a month of training. Or you could cut it and then feel perfectly fine the next workout.

And you got through all of it. It's so hard too because it's like you see it on a piece of paper and you wanna do it, but it's it is a really, really good reminder that you don't you don't have to murder yourself. Like, you you can get a good amount of work in and high quality and not hurt yourself. And it it is a fine balance and it it takes a long time. Like Dom's finally mastered that probably after three years of me coaching.

Maybe I mean, it's been since 2025, six years of me coaching him. Dom's finally understood this is okay to push through, this isn't. He's like, feel my Achilles. I've never felt that before. I'm not gonna push this.

Okay, I'll cut that. Or, you know, I feel my hamstring here, okay, I'm not gonna do the next rep. Or in a session though, he knows the biggest thing is gonna be his knee pain. So like, if he feels a little bit there, he's dealt with it so many times, he's so familiar with it, he knows what's considered to be okay that he can bounce back from, train hard, won't linger, and is very manageable versus something like a hamstring where, yeah, you could just have a flat tire and then you're out for a month, you can't sprint. So I've learned that as well over the years and I've had to manage quite a few injuries.

But, yeah, it is a huge part of long term progress. So that's podcast, guys. If you are interested in coaching, go to teachbstrength.com. We use all of the things we talked about. I like to think that the iteration of our coaching is an iteration of Mike and Boo, and I said previously in the podcast.

So if you

commented last podcast, they were like, John just needs an underling, and then he'll be invited to his podcast, like, twenty years from now, and it'll be a full circle.

What's funny is, like, Isaiah and Ben are probably, was thinking about this too, is like how I'm really, you know, truly an iteration of that. And I'm like, damn, like Ben is an iteration of me and Isaiah is an iteration of me. Like Ben's probably gonna be if if he isn't a better coach than me in ten years, I've told him this, consider yourself a failure. Consider everything you've done as a coach a failure if you're not better than me in ten years because I've essentially pioneered so much of that work for you that you didn't have to spend fifteen years doing. So for you, you know, I've I've learned from Boo, I've learned from Mike, I've learned from Dan, you know, and and sometimes in a roundabout way.

It's like you have gained all of that experience. Maybe not to quite the degree that I have, or maybe I haven't gotten it to the degree Mike has, but you have that experience. So if you don't build on this and be better, then, again, consider yourself a failure. And I think he's already starting to prove that with the work that he's done with Mason and the work he's done with Hiram. It's why we hired him, because I know he's gonna be one of the best coaches in probably shorter than ten years.

So Ben's Ben's gonna listen to this on repeat, like, 50 times.

I'm in a weird, like, spot where it's like a hybrid athlete coach.

Yeah.

Because I think a lot of it like, a lot of the the coaching lineage is, like, you've like, get formal training, you get your degree, and then you intern, and then you, like, you gotta go through, like, the the suck essentially of it. But for me, it was, like, I got exposed to it through being the athlete and coach. It's like a weird hybrid of like Yeah. But it's like a cool lens though.

Because it I think it helps you communicate it helps you communicate really effectively, you know, with people who are athletes. Because as a coach, you know, I can go out to a session, I can coach it, but when I'm teaching in an in an organized kind of format like this or or pre planned or whatever else, I'm really explaining the underlying thoughts that are happening. But for you, it's like, I kinda know these things, but I'm also very heavily on the athlete side, like almost more heavily on the athlete side to the point where you can take those concepts and just explain them in very easily understood ways. And that was really apparent with the writing, which we won't get into too much. But there's a big project with a lot of writing.

So, yeah, I want to end on that. I wonder what that could be. But I do want to end on that. Thank you guys for listening. Hopefully, you enjoyed the podcast yesterday.

And let us know who else we should have on the podcast. I'm leaning towards one of the greatest jumps coaches ever being Randy Huntington. So he's the next one that I'm gonna see if he wants to to come on the podcast, which if we have him, Boo, Mike, I think I can get Dan. I think I can get Dan on there. Dan and Lauren Seagrave.

I don't know Lauren at all, so that one would be kinda hard. Dan, I think, would do it unless, you know, he's too busy. So he does have a a lot of responsibilities. I think he is retired.

We're very careful with who we put on the

podcast. Very careful. So thanks for watching, guys. We'll see you next time.