Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Kelly Driscoll.
In this episode, you'll hear part two of my conversation with Lillian
Rafeldt, professor of nursing at Three Rivers Community College.
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There is something else beautiful that you said about the learning
experience of your students.
I don't know if this is something that you kind of think about
often, but you described it as this kind of process of coming undone.
and then coming back together again, and that there is this vulnerability
in the, uh, the coming undone.
And honestly, this is something that happens to all of us through,
throughout our lives, um mm-hmm.
in our decision making.
This kind of lovely description of how, you know it is in that vulnerability and
the, the strength that they're finding when things do come back together again,
that's kind of solidifying why they really did make the best choice for themselves
in moving into this particular field and the, the kind of life changing impact
that it has had on them to, to do so.
Um, and I was curious, um, with some of the students as they're kind of going
through this process of, you know, coming undone and coming back to together
again and sharing some of what they've done, um, after they've gone through
their reviews, it sounds like they do sometimes have the opportunity to share.
These, um, portfolios or maybe some curated versions of that with external
audiences, if they have shared with you, um, you know, what, what that experience
was like and maybe some of the feedback that they got from, from those audiences,
whether it was from family or friends or.
Um, maybe some of them have used the e-portfolios to get employment.
Um, I would love to hear if you've gotten some stories from students
about, about that aspect as well.
Um, Many stories from family and friends who they're like, oh, so this is why
I never saw you, um, or, because there was so . You know, there, there
are are activities that you miss when you're in any professional program.
Right.
So it just Oh, sure.
Help solidify the family and how they helped with dinners or whatever
they helped with at different points.
Um, and, and a sense of pride, right?
A sense of pride.
When we have the pinning ceremonies, some students have taken pictures from
different experiences and they put together a whole slideshow with, um, While
people are coming into the auditorium waiting for the ceremony to begin.
So there's that whole visual and, and, you know, from the beginning, all
right, you know, funny pictures too.
And, and so, so maybe not as many patient stories, but stories about themselves.
Okay, so that's there.
Um, the, the employers is an actual interesting question.
Um, and that's possibly because we're regarded well, so I will say
electronically, students can put the link to an e-portfolio, another mm-hmm.
E-portfolio, another learning portfolio that they've used all the
time, but a, uh, more polished, um, portfolio that they wanna share.
They do put that link on that electronic submission.
and the feedback we've gotten is that some people actually click into
it, but some people do not because they prefer an in-person interview.
Right.
So, um mm-hmm.
. Mm-hmm.
. So, but, but I will share one thing with you in how.
Portfolios are being used, let's say for me, professionally, right?
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
. So it's not the beautiful story portfolio, right?
What it is is I just reapplied for my certified nursing
educator, um, you know, renewal.
And what was interesting to me, you have to do this every five years.
You can either take the exam.
Or submit how you're meeting each of the eight outcomes.
Okay?
So, mm-hmm.
, I did it.
I submitted it.
Do you know it was a portfolio system, right?
Provide a reflection, an artifact, and how, um, you've achieved this.
And I got a response back within a day.
Alright, that you have now earned your next five year renewal.
In previous years you did fill out electronic submissions, but it wasn't
set up in a portfolio, so Right, right.
So it's a different type of portfolio, but I would say that the speed in
which I received my reply was amazing.
It was amazing.
Yeah.
So yeah, so in that sense there's that, um, the schools per se.
Um, also some students share, we have many articulation agreements, so there's
multiple factors of why, um, Students articulate into different programs.
Um, but again mm-hmm.
, I think it's the thinking process.
It may not be the actual product, but it's the thinking process.
Mm-hmm.
that has been developed in the student that helps them to succeed
with employer interviews and within school work, um, and graduate work.
Um, And in academia, actually, many of the four year ac um, academic
settings, they ask for a portfolio.
So those people that have access to previous work they've done can be used.
And do you know, for the students that may be developing, uh, these more kind
of, I think you referred to them as polished versions of their portfolio,
um, that aren't the same portfolios where they may have been doing more of their
storytelling or these kind of mm-hmm.
case studies of their experiences.
Um, , do you know what the, the process is like for them as they may be
creating that, um, additional portfolio?
What, as we're working, and I'm asking this because as we're working with
different institutions and organizations around, uh, portfolios in the variety
of different ways that the technology can support teaching and learning and
preparation for career after graduation.
You know, we very often get asked this question of, you know, well,
you know, we want students to be able to create these learning portfolios,
but we also want them to have this kind of showcase portfolio and, you
know, how are we gonna manage that?
And, you know, Jeff and I, well and, uh, all of the kind of evolution
that's happened within our product that it's always been, you know,
a space for students to be able to create really as many kind of separate.
ePortfolios or, um, you know, collections of work and experiences that they may need
to, to share with different audiences.
So, um, even though this question comes up so much, we're always like, well, you
know, this, this is how we've solved this.
You know, we make it really easy for students to, you know, create whatever
they need and, uh, you know, that they can easily kind of copy and move
things from one portfolio to another.
They can add new pages, they could duplicate the whole thing and
then go in and make modifications.
But I'm curious if you could share a little bit about, uh, within nursing, Some
of the, um, practices are specifically for your students if they are developing
a portfolio that has more of this kind of, um, in the field kind of story
storytelling element, and then, you know, what that might look like as they're
creating a different version that they may wanna share with other people.
Right.
So, so I mean that, that traditional model that they have, um, You know,
you put in that brief resume, you, you say your experience per se.
Um, I do believe you might have multiple showcase portfolios because depending
on the position you're applying for, you do need to match to right the position.
Right.
So, so right, right.
That you might have certain areas that are the same, but ultimately your goal
would be there, um, as to what you want, and then supporting evidence as to
how you would be qualified to do that.
Some of the, you know, looking at the employer's website and
what are their core values.
For instance, one of our hospital's values integrity and communication
and patient centered care.
So if you address their core values, um, then, right?
That would be the best way to do that.
Now I do.
. So here's my question though.
This is my question because mm-hmm.
HR in theory is not supposed to know what you look like, right?
Mm-hmm.
in theory.
Mm-hmm.
. because I, I, truthfully, one of the best things I would think would be to have,
you know, maybe a one minute introductory video being that Digication, you can,
um, you know, video actually straight through, um, the computer itself.
Mm-hmm.
and upload that.
I mean, yes, you can use your phone and you can upload things and,
and, but would that be accepted?
That, I don't know.
Um, because I'm not in an HR department.
All right.
So I don't know.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, and I think it's an important conversation and I think it's one that,
you know, I will continue to kind of evolve over time with, with technology
and vary by different fields and organizations and, and what's accepted.
I mean, I think we know now.
Whether someone is submitting or a resume or a link to their portfolio that.
The ability to simply Google someone and see pictures of who they are or yeah.
Their, how they live and breathe on a variety of different
social media platforms.
You know, that that's the reality that we live in now that it's very visual.
Mm-hmm.
. So I do think it's a, it's an interesting conversation and it'll
be, um, something, you know, to continue to watch and respond to.
And I think the more.
Open conversations we're able to have with the organizations mm-hmm.
that, that we know may be hiring from our programs and institutions and,
you know, what is it that they value?
Knowing about these, uh, potential candidates, you know, what are, what are
they hoping that they can capture about them from their, you know, about me or
their cover letters or their resumes, so that, That the kind of coaching and
mentoring that we give the students is gonna be, um, you know, in line with
what the employers are, are looking for.
Yeah, and you spoke a little bit earlier too, that some of the students, um, as
they may be going through the, the process of creating these more, um, Uh, kind
of different versions of their career oriented portfolios that they, they may
actually be creating more than one and, um, that they have the ability to kind of
shape and model and kind of pull evidence and experiences that align with the
very specific kinds of job opportunities that they may be applying for.
Um, Which is lovely to hear, and I think a real asset with some of
the, the customization available.
Yep.
And, and the one actually, um, if they could do a visual, I would think
they should do something of what's called that elevator statement.
Right.
If you see somebody in an elevator who would hire you and in one minute or
less tell them why they should actually hire you or interview you at least.
Um, and that would be a great opening, right?
Um, if the visual was part of what you could do, uh, because mm-hmm , it
just makes sense, you know, that quick, you know how most humans are.
They're like, okay, let me see in two seconds.
or less, should I keep watching?
Right.
? Um, right, right.
And then somehow incorporating if you can, besides the hard, um, resume, the,
that you are demonstrating soft skills.
Right?
Because most employers really, they say they can train all other types of things,
but not necessarily the soft skills if you don't come with those, so, So that
might be something in all those Right.
Other portfolios.
Absolutely.
And, and how you might have, um, you know, a, a fit with.
The other colleagues within the organization or really bring
in a new perspective that they desperately need and don't have yet.
And, um, mm-hmm.
, you know, all of these are things that I think would be incredibly hard to gather
from, you know, bullet points on a resume.
But I think that we have the ability to, um, , you know, get quite a lot
of that information that we're looking for from sometimes these very brief,
but media oriented kinds of, um, storytelling, you know, where we're
sharing a little bit about who we are and why we believe we would be, um,
a good addition to a team and what skills we bring to the table and...
So, um, I think it's a lovely perspective and one that, um, you know, as you're kind
of continuing to, you know, I, I believe be a kind of trailblazer in e-portfolios
within the nursing field to kind of keep pushing at the edges of what, what this
technology can do for your students.
While they're moving through your courses and in their clinical experiences,
um, it's a beautiful thing that you've developed this community for the students
to provide mentorship for each other.
Um, I did wanna touch on one other thing that you mentioned earlier about.
And I believe you said you've already started to do this, but, uh, correct me
if I'm wrong, maybe it's something that you're planning for, but have you also
started to invite, um, alumni to take part in some of this mentorship as well?
Okay.
We, um, asked the graduates of, of the spring semester, um,
to come back and share things.
About testing, about studying, about getting ready for the program and what
to, you know, do those type of things.
And so they came back and created some videos and we.
Asked a variety of cultures, um, to do that.
And, you know, some came directly into school, um, and we set up the
cameras and did it that way and did it, you know that a few of them
were there together for support.
We'll be meeting as a group soon because we're going out to either lunch or dinner.
Um, and I've been sharing how it's worked.
It has been supportive.
We did have one student create, um, the way he passed NCLEX.
Um, He did it while he was sitting in his car.
It was very, it was a funny video, but it was right on.
It was just, yep.
That makes so much sense.
So that was something shared with all the faculty and then they could choose
to put it into their Blackboard shell.
Um, but I have the video.
Mm-hmm.
, when I talk about the Digication future, um, You know, that it would happen.
So, so that's what we're doing.
There are graduates from the past, um, who have said they're willing
to help and meet either in person or virtually, or how we wanna do it.
Um, we just have to have more of a structure too, uh, to mm-hmm.
, because our curriculums have changed.
So, so in the sense of mm-hmm.
, if.
Somebody from a previous curriculum wants to mentor someone.
We just have to be a little careful, um, as to, well, let's just run through what
mentoring really means and what you would be sharing and what you know, might have
been changes and that type of stuff.
So that's a ongoing process.
But definitely we don't have a nursing alumni association, but we do have.
Nurses connected on Facebook.
So , you know, most of them, we don't friend them as educators when
they're in the program, but after, um, they graduate if they'd like to.
And, and even if they don't graduate and they, you know, move on to something
else if they'd like to after, um, they're welcome to ask to friend any of us.
And.
Many of us have quite a few followers.
And so in that way we've stayed connected.
So it, it looks like it's going to evolve into a more formalized, um, way.
Right now we just track people, have you passed NCLEX?
Okay, where do you work?
How long do you work there?
You know, that kind of stuff, right?
But now it's, it's moving into some other areas.
Um, and, you know, can I, like I say, with that, that larger,
um, e-portfolio collage, let's call it a collage of mentoring.
Mm-hmm.
, um, you know that ha, that does have potential.
All right.
And again, you're inspiring me to, to keep, keep moving on with this song,
I have the context now.
I have to move them into digital
I have, uh, all the faith that you'll be able to, uh, keep
moving that, that forward.
Lily.
Um, and I know we're getting close to the, the end of our time, um, but
I did wanna touch a little bit on.
The assessment of the student e portfolios as well.
We spent a good bit of time talking about the mentorship it at some stage.
Um, are these, uh, e-portfolios going through any kind of
formal assessment process?
We have some nursing programs that use them, um, specifically for, um, You
know, assessment towards professional practice standards and learning outcomes,
and in some cases, some program level kinds of accreditation activities.
Is that something that's happening within nursing at Three Rivers as well?
Um, our focus more at Three Rivers has been the general education
assessment to bring it across.
Mm-hmm.
, the college.
Um, that was our push, um, with Kem Barfield and, and, um,
Mike Stutz and Terry Delaney.
We pushed it in that way so that yes, we're assessing, um, artifacts
related to science or any of the general education courses.
That nursing has had, um, we did change the curriculum from a three credit
course to a one credit leadership course, so that in essence in nursing,
that changed the, um, assignment to some degree to respect student time.
. So the assessment is there, but it's more informal.
Um, is it growing?
Mm-hmm.
, it reemerging again.
Yes, of course it has to because accreditors now are asking
to see authentic assessment.
Right?
Authentic assessment.
So right.
No longer, can you just say, our NCLEX pass rate is always about 90 or 100%.
Um, here are our mountain measure reports.
You have to say, well, What artifacts or what reflections are
you choosing to demonstrate authentic assessment and in that case, right.
Um, Digication comes back to life in that way.
And, um, I just, anybody who's listening to this, I do want them to understand that
there's an ebb and a flow to the process.
Um, and again, it has to do, I mean, when you.
You know, um, faculty change positions and, and especially in nursing,
faculty might go back to practice cuz it's a different pay differential.
So, um mm-hmm.
, it's, you know, there's a, there's a training process and a uh, um, you know,
excitement process about using this and.
We've passed accreditation.
So, you know, eight years from now, not quite.
That was a while ago.
You know, it keeps reemerging.
Yeah.
What is our authentic assessment?
Um, and so that's how curriculum meetings go.
So it is reemerging again, it, it's, it's the ebb and flow.
Mm.
But Three Rivers definitely.
Um, we do have that five year cycle of all the elements of the gen ed assessment
and, you know, we're science is diligently putting in artifacts for the whole
college to review, um, in January, and then we'll move on to our next set of.
You know, in May and that type of thing.
And that's been a fun process, um, for faculty to learn that assessment
is part of, um, teaching too.
And also to see that we at Three Rivers treat assessment in a
positive way, that it's not meant to penalize any instructor, you know.
, if the cla, it's not a class assessment of a person, right?
It's a let's look at the college, the program and areas we need to, to show.
And let's say for instance, when we looked at communication artifacts, um, you know,
public speaking, and we looked at those and they were, they were in Digication.
It was fun to review.
The outcomes became, okay, we need this better equipment.
We need to structure the assignment differently, not.
Who wasn't doing what.
So really assessment needs to be thought of in a positive way, in a growth way.
So that's, that's where we are at Three Rivers right now.
And we kind of think about it with, um, you know, being
able to draw from that data.
It's.
, you know, one other piece to the story, right?
And it's often this data that gives the, you know, the kind of
information that's needed to make.
Decisions that are going to create the best opportunity for the students.
And that might be that, you know, budget changes need to be made
to allocate more for resources, to improve classrooms, et cetera.
So it's, it's often, um, You know, when everything gets pulled
together, it, it's really not a story about, um, an an individual.
It, it's really about how all of the pieces come together.
Um, and the, the data can actually show that quite.
Quite clearly and, and Three Rivers has so much that has been collected,
you know, since 2014 as evidence of the student learning across general
education through that time period.
It's really remarkable.
Yeah, so, but thank you so much for, for touching on that too.
And you remind me of the, our login too.
So our login, it's is tied directly so that there's not multiple logins.
I mean, that came through in, through our system.
But the other thing is that if you are a graduate now or an alumni, you have
the ability to save your portfolio.
right.
Which, um, is something that is very valuable.
And when you talk about the future and, and career portfolios, the ability
to, to go back and see that if you're moving on to a different, different,
um, position or if you're moving into the BSN program or the MSN program later
on, that having that ability to not only have your portfolio while you're in.
School, but have your portfolio, um, as an alum too is is an
excellent, um, opportunity that we have through Digication.
So thank you for that.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
And you know, when we created this technology, um, myself and um, co-founder
Jeffrey Yan, it, we always had this knowledge that it's important for the
students to be able to have all of that evidence of what they did while
they were a student is something that they can continue to hold onto and that
they can continue to go back in and.
Refine and share as they need to.
And I know you mentioned within nursing that there's, you know, some requirements
in continuing your professional development and having a space where you
can keep adding evidence of what you've done and reflections on those experiences
so that when you are up for those kinds of renewals or recertifications mm-hmm.
that it's material that you can all, um, get back to and, and.
, you know, download if you need to or share publicly if that's appropriate.
And, um, so we've really paid a lot of attention into trying to make, um,
something that will be valuable for students after graduation as well.
Mm-hmm.
? Yep.
So thank you very much, Lily.
It was wonderful to connect with you today.
I really appreciate this time for us to kind of go down memory lane a little
bit and also celebrate what you've done and brainstorm some new ideas too.
Uh, I can't wait to see where some of these new plans of yours go,
and we'll have to connect again in the not too distant future
and see how things are evolving.
That sounds wonderful.
All right.
Thank you, Kelly.
Thank you.
Take good care.
This concludes our conversation.
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