All right, so I am back. This is Rasheem of the counter narrative, and I am here to keep you informed and let you know about a little bit about what's coming up, what's happened in the past, and how we're going to move forward. I am so excited if you have been watching us live, thank you so much for joining. If you have been watching the replay, thank you so much for the replay. I appreciate comments, feedbacks, retweets, shares, everything. Yay, victory. Okay, I think that last time was on my end. Um, because everybody and their grandmother around here has Wi Fi, and sometimes it could just pick up other people's Wi Fi, even though their signal isn't strong, okay, yeah, yeah, here, and I'm here down, I'm not too far from downtown, and I'm not too far from like the college area.
Well, you might not know where, but you know, in terms of social media and things, Stacy Patton, have you had her on your show?
So Stacy Patton, P, A T, P, A T, T O N,
yeah, she's an advocate against spanking in the black community. She'd be interesting to have. I don't it might be hard to get her. Yeah,
she's in DC.
She She teaches in Morgan.
Did I? Oh my gosh, I think I might have seen her when, um, when Mark Lamont Hill came out there. I think she was on that panel, yeah, when he came out, I think she was on a panel, on the same panel with him.
Oh, okay. Oh, okay. She may have been writes a lot about spanked as a child, well, abused she was in about her foster mom. She has an interesting story. She has a book called the mean old yesterday, and but, yeah, I mean, I think she would be an interesting I don't know if you can get her, though, that's the thing you might be able to. I'm sure you know someone who knows her.
I'm sure I do. Like, listen, she on Morgan campus. I will go to her office. You I sure will i am not opposed to sitting outside somebody's office.
Well now tell me, where are you studying for your intellectual Negro DOM PhD? Right?
I I'm at Morgan, yeah,
oh, you're at Morgan too. Yeah,
okay, cool.
Yeah, you know, I'd like to get my PhD, but it's too expensive.
It is. I mean, I wouldn't be able to do it unless I got a scholarship. And I made that very clear, oh, you got a full ride, yeah. Well, so, I mean, yes, the first part of that, but the second part of that is I also have a like, I recently switched into a research fellowship. So I I dance for my food. You know, I dance for my food, so to speak. Um, so, yeah, I mean, everything that come with that, in terms of um, ta in classes, were you really um? And they all somewhere on the beach, that sort of thing. Okay,
well, that's cool, yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm aware of that too. It's just I'm not sure the return on investment as far as time is concerned, either, and the politics of working in some organizations,
I will tell you, yeah, no, it's that's real. Because one of the things that that I thought about is because we, they've had several conversations with us around once we get our PhD, what are you going to do? They really strong us to work in academia, and they want us to my degree is going to be in social work, macro social work, but they really want us to work in academia. I don't know if I'm all the way built for accurate for the politics of academia. I. Um, there's aspects of it that are naturally me, like, naturally I'm going to research, naturally, I'm inquisitive, and I'm going to ask questions. I'm going to read, like, all of the things that they want you to do to, like, prove your you know you allowed to speak in at the table. Um, are things that I would like to do anyway. It's just the damn game of playing. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if I'm built to play the game. I'm built for the work of it, but I don't know if I'm built to play the game. And, um, so that's the thing that, that's the thing that I'm that I'm really thinking about right now, as I finish up,
well, I tell you if, if I do decide, because it'll be pretty soon here, if I decide to do it, I don't think I want to work in an institution or, you know, I think I might want to work for a research, you know, organization, or Just continue to do what I'm doing, you know, I think it would help in terms of some of the work that I do in other community. But, yeah, I mean, I worked in local government and the politics there just about did me in. And to be honest, I don't know where you learn about the politics and organizations other than trial and error, unless you have a good mentor and someone who teaches you how it works. I mean, you learn by, you know, guessing and trying to figure it out and then knowing how systems work, how power works. But yeah, I learned my lesson. I was the magical Negro for a while. And
yeah, and that gets exhausted, yeah, because, um, I will tell you one of the things that on on online platforms that I'm like, starting to just get just a little bit annoyed with is, like the the number of times that I have to say to white people who say that they want to help and all of these other things, um, listen, I don't know this stuff. Just intuitively, because I'm black, I had to read some books and figure some stuff out. So if you really want to help, go read some books and figure some stuff out, number one and number two, don't come to every meeting like you want to leave the meeting in a community that's not your own, you know. So, so, I mean, there's a couple of challenges that come with it. There's a there is a couple of challenges with with not just, like, not really, necessarily, as much with just being in academia. Because if I am in academia, I think I would rather be at an HBCU. They are. It does have its own politics and its own beast, but it's something that I'm like, I'm familiar to their messiness. I'm familiar with, like, it's like the uncle, like, you know, he jacked up, and we keep him in the closet, or we don't invite him, or whatever. Or your cousin who, like, they gonna act ignorant and they gonna mess up and they gonna wanna fight, um. And there's some some things that, like, I know how to navigate around. There's other things where it just like, I can't deal with Becky's passive aggressiveness, like, I might, like, hit her if she send me one more email with all caps with exclamation points, right? I might, you know, bust Ron in the face one more time to get my attention. You know, I don't
know. Well, I mean, it's about power, right? And so as long as the institutions are part of a capitalistic society, you're going to have, you know, it's not necessarily, although there are differences when you're at an HBCU, still some of us still are trying to get ahead, and even in those institutions, we can oppress other people. It's not really the same thing, per se. But you know, some of us are addicted to power too. You know, I've been reading this book called the pedagogy of the oppressed. Oh, yeah,
yeah.
And he talks about that, yeah, right about this idea that even the who are pressed we well, we internalize the image of the oppressor, and even so much that when we get into certain positions that we also take on to subscribe to that and oppress other people. So, you know, it's just a different, you know, that's whether. Hm, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I.
I think we're on a delay, so I ended up interrupting you, but finish.
Yeah, it's a little bit of a delay. But um, so I mean that dynamic exists. I don't think you can fully take that out of the equation. It's always in the back. But maybe the dynamic that's not there is, does this person not like me? Because you know when you're at an HBCU, but then you got black folks who don't like black folks, and you got so maybe if they're at an HBCU, they love black folks.
That's not necessarily.
It's like white folks who say, Well, my cousin is black. I married a black man. You know that doesn't matter. You still can hold racist attitudes. You still live in the system, and you've been educated in these environments and everything. So that doesn't negate that, but yeah, you're
right. HBCU is historically black college or university, and university, that's what HBCU is.
Did somebody ask you that?
Yeah, it's Chad Eckhart, aka uncle Bert. I'm sure you did know that somewhere deep down.
Oh, wow. Okay, hey, we're just chatting Hi, Chad Eckhart,
yeah. I mean it's, it's like. So the thing the challenge is, because everything is so informed by capitalism, when you make the decision of what you want to be when you grow up, it has to take into consideration how you're going to make money when you grow up. And, um, unfortunately, um, there's a lot of situations wherein the things that we would probably like to be when we grow up, or those things that we're most passionate about aren't necessarily the things that society value the most, and wouldn't be the things that we will be able to support a family on. So, you know, so I know all of those things go go into consideration when a person is going down XYZ road, I'm fortunate that I'm just currently in a position where I do have a choice, like, I can turn down, you know, I have turned down six figures working at The State Department, because I was just like, I can't deal with y'all. So
when I have four, I have not had that opportunity to turn down six. I cannot say that, um, you know, and I'm not
sure I want to turn it down, but
I understand why you might turn it,
yeah, I mean, and that's fine too. I mean, I don't like one of the things that I feel like I have definitely learned this year is that I think that the way that people, you know, with their multiple identities and multiple choices and all of these things. I think we just all have different ways of navigating our space. So when I see people navigating it in a way that I wouldn't necessarily do this year, whatever reason, I've had a lot of opportunity to do some internal reflection, and it's put in a situation wherein I can have a certain level of appreciation for this is just different, not better, not worse. This is just different, and especially when you have made a commitment, which I have, like I've made a commitment to help and love black and brown people through their uh, ugly, through their beauty, through their ignorance, through their whatever it is at whatever level like that's just the that that I put above everything. So loving them doesn't always mean that I'm going to love their choices, and I know how to separate the two better now, and I'm grateful for that, because I can love you and not love that you decide to do crack
you. I'm sorry say that again. I say
I could love you and not decide and not love that you do crack, not to say that you do crack. Listen,
okay, well, I mean, you know, we're informed. The choices that we make, our experiences inform them, the ones that we are aware of and the ones that we're not, you know, just by a byproduct of being a part of this society, you know, the families that we come from are just general experiences, all of that. You know, we're not an island of. To ourselves, and so for me, I think my choices are informed by the fact of having a great job and then going for a situation where a position is cut, and recognizing what's really important, at least to me, in terms of how I navigate the space in this in this world, and what I can do with the resources I have. So going from, you know, having a lot in terms of income, not necessarily wealth, because that's another discussion. I don't know if you've seen some of the articles and know about, you know, the wealth in the black community, it's very low, even though people may have a high income, our assets and resources are low, and that's because of the historical discrimination. But I digress, so I understand what you're saying about what you know, making choices for yourself that makes sense. So for me, it's just been a product of, I guess, having some some some decisions that were made for me and recognizing, I mentioned the deterministic, okay, so anyway, you know decisions made for me, responding to those and just recognizing what I can affect and what you know, generally, makes me happy in the process and so and shedding the expectations of others, you know, I think that's an ongoing process too, and it's, it can be a difficult at least, you know, I recognize that as well. So
no, I mean circumstances beyond our control. Oh, that's what you're saying. 75% of things are determined by circumstances out of our control, and 25% by free will, that what you're saying, Chad, I see um, yeah, I also, I know that. I've also heard of um like social workers are very much person and environment. So circumstance like whatever is in your situation, it is because, partially because of the person, but also they're operating within the environment. So there's some things that could look absolutely absurd, but they look absolutely absurd if you comparing it to a normal situation, a normal life, what have you. There are some things that looks absolutely absurd, but then when you apply the absurd context, and this is perfectly what you should expect, giving this particular context and situation, so I think I can kind of get that, um, what you were saying earlier, I wonder. Oh, let's ask Bert. How do you break that down? Do you want to come on? If so hit camera.
Okay, just once you're ready. All right, oh, he's walking dogs.
Yeah,
you know Chad, and
I know him from another um, so there was another platform that was up before called Blad, which was a little bit more awesome than this. I hope the fire talk gods don't hear me, and damn me, um, but it was another platform similar to this that I met him on, and we were in a few groups where just different groups, where they would have different chats or different conversations going on. That's kind of like how I met him online, those different things. And that platform shut down, and many of the people from that platform came over to this one
and started using it. Yeah,
so your boys gonna be on coming up soon. Did you see that?
Don, yeah, I saw that. I'm gonna tune in. That's that looks like that's gonna be a good show.
I'm looking forward to it, especially if Dr T is still available. I think he is going to be available. Um, Dr Marvin, Thomas, Thomas or Thompson, I gotta look that back up. That's so bad that I don't got that known. But the dude is sharp in terms of, like, knowing his educational history, and knowing the history of like, HBCUs and stuff like that. And. It's so good when you can have a conversation with somebody who knows something about something, because sometimes you have conversations with people and they start at, I don't know, like, they'll start at the end of a thing, like, for example, like when people sometimes when people talk about, let's say, I'm in Baltimore, so Freddie Gray. Thing happened here. So sometimes we will talk about Freddie Gray from the day that Freddie Gray from the day that we got the verdict, and that's the story. But what is not talked about? Yes, my love Okay, I'll get to it. Thank you. I appreciate it. I think I know who it is, so I'm probably going to ignore it. Yep, um, okay, so hit the camera, so they'll talk about it from the day that the conviction happened. And then they may go back one step and talk about, okay, the conviction happened, and then this is what happened. But they won't talk about, you know, just all of these things that led up, up to, oh no camera. They won't talk about all of these things providing different context. What led up to it like if we talk about HBCUs now, we just say, and the only thing that we say is that they're closing at an alarming rate. Or, how am I gonna let you in? Chad, you gotta, Okay, listen,
let's see if this works.
Oh, there he is, like that you didn't have a camera. No, I'm saying that I can't let myself on. Oh, it's not like, it's not like, Blab. I can't let myself on you
all the control we'll see when you have so like from Leslie on over there by the chat section, it has a picture of a camera, and I guess that's just because she has a, it's a PC or something, yeah? Huh,
it's a delay, yeah, that makes things interesting.
It makes us have to actually listen to each other, though
it's good. You see, I'm getting close. I get close.
Come on, Jen, this.
Oh,
okay, so what's your break?
Okay, so it's a it's a long story, but I'll make it short.
So I've been listening a lot. I don't know what the sad. You know, forgive my, my stupidity here with my language, but I've been listening a lot on the subject of race and and and, and whatever's been going on with the police and all this other stuff, but just race in general, and the the interesting conversations that I've been listening to are somebody named Glenn C Lowry. And I forget the guy's name, Alexander watts. Does that make sense to you? That might be wrong. But anyway, this sort of deterministic thing that I was talking about it, it's something that I've kind of taken on generally, and it's, it's your circumstances, so how much of your life is decided for you, basically In the fact that if, if all things equal and you would wind clock back the clock, what would you make? The same decisions that you, that you made. So I'm saying that, yes, if all things were equal, of course, you would make the same decision. And not saying that you you know now, if you knew now what you knew, then I'm saying that if you had everything the same and you just wound the like had a time warp and you went back, you'd have made the same decision as you made, you know? I mean, there's nothing to say differently. There's nothing that you would do differently, because there's nothing that's changed. You would make the same decision. So what I'm saying is, is that all your circumstances, that that happened up to that time, were kind of beyond your control. I mean, many things are beyond your control, and you would make the. Same choices over and over again, because there's if everything was the same, you would make the same choice. It makes no sense to say that you would do something different with everything being equal. So I kind of take that view and put it on everything. So you kind of take this blanket and put it over everything, and you come at it from this very deterministic viewpoint, and then you sort of see that the culpability of certain people and what's going on with them and is lowered quite a bit. So I'm not saying that you know people shouldn't have, you know, accountability, but at the same time, we should take into account the sort of circumstances and and the situation at hand, and sort of, you know, judge it from that perspective. I mean, I know that that's sort of like common sense, but a lot of people don't seem to think that way. You
okay, how far do you think that goes, Chad, in terms of the impact of your environment over certain places or decisions? Where would you say that cuts off at
well, that's, that's an interesting discussion that I'm trying to have. So, like, I right now I think that it's a great deal of it. So that's what I mean by the 7525 I mean, like, you got to hold somebody accountable. But yet again, I mean, we have to take it from the perspective, like, if they were wanting to clock back, they would make the same choices is that, is that their fault? Is that some sort of problem with their decision making? Like, what is it like? What Why would you make? Why did you make those choices in the first place? Was it completely just your own decision? You're completely culpable, or was it some sort of a separation error, where it was like my circumstances. So like, if I grow up in a poor neighborhood where there's little to no opportunity and all this stuff, my choices are limited because my knowledge is limited, or my experience is limited to this. So like, why should it be put on me to say that, you know, oh, well, I had better choices than to join a gang or to like sell drugs or to like do whatever it is that, that you know, we deem faulty or wrong. I think that you can't just say no, that you can't hold somebody accountable. I mean, you have to hold people accountable, because there's, you know what I mean, like, you can't just say, Oh, well, it's not their fault at all. But I don't know. I just think that you should lower the lower it quite a great deal, like a great deal.
And I can jump in here. I hear what you're saying, Chad, and to me, I see it as there are multiple layers of perspectives to this, right? So someone is in front of you and doing something unjust, or if a teacher sees a behavior, they have to deal with the behavior in front of them at the time. Right at the same time, I think there has to be an understanding of the conditions that create certain behaviors, or that people responding to the conditions in which they live, or the circumstances in which they live. And so, on the one hand, I think there needs to be some accountability. It's also that accountability to take into account some of the circumstances of a situation. So, you know, I'm kind of a systems thinker, and so when you're talking about deterministic so while things may be
determined
within that determination, there are some there are choices, but not everyone has the same access, not everyone has access to the same choices within that deterministic framework, right? And so those are limited. So, I mean, I think I see it as you're you have choices within a deterministic framework, but those choices are limited based on the conditions. And you know what's determined for you at the same time, and not everyone sees things necessarily that way, especially in our society, because we are what is it? Individual, right, individual, no. Rugged individualism and Bootstrap thinking kind of undergirds a lot of that. So I. That's just, that's my what you're saying there.
I I agree with you completely, and I think my lack of eloquence is kind of holding me back here. But yeah, so I'm saying that it sort of gives you a better ability to be sympathetic, to have a kind heart, to give a helping hand, rather than this sort of retribution punishment attitude that I see a lot like it seems that people were much too quick to sort of give the backhand rather than the hand out, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, come with me. Like, let me show you a different way. Like, this is, this is this is better for you, rather than just being like, you know, like bad kid, like bad kid or bad person, like, you're wrong and shouted down and completely, like, punished for, for rather than like, you know, I'm saying so the sort of understanding of this deterministic thing that's happening, this, this, these circumstances of life that are beyond our control, it gives us a better sense of the humanity of the person and like seeing them through a different you know, rather than just seeing them as this bad person, this bad human being, as seeing somebody as as a human being and all their flaws and saying, like, look, okay, yeah, you're doing something wrong. But I'm not just gonna sit here and punch you in the face for it. I'm going to be like, okay, like, look, this is the right way to go about this. And like, you know, like you were saying the pedagogy of the press. I mean, let's be teacher and student all the time, and metaphorically and literally. So, yeah,
right. And so even in that, also you're we have agency, right? So things are determined for, you know, to some degree, but it doesn't take away completely agency. We do have some agency, you know, it varies. It varies, I think,
with the combination of what both of you have said, what it makes me think of one is that, you know, we are a lot more of a punitive society than we are one of redemption. So when someone does something wrong, instead of trying to correct their behavior, we're trying to, you know, punish them, get them away from us. Go to just get away from us. I don't care, you know, what happens to you or even kill them, really? If they're a bad person, right? Just get rid of them. Um, and it also makes me think about something that you said, Leslie, when it comes to systems, if we're saying that circumstances, that environment, that system, that all of this, that this person's ecosystem, influence and determines an outcome. Then, if we want a different outcome, then let's plant a different seed. Let's create a different ecosystem. Let's cultivate something differently. But I think it's easier to blame an apple for being an apple than it is to plant a new seed or to tear down a tree, or to like or to, you know, start something over. I think it's much easier to just take out bad apples, you know, quote, unquote, bad apples, and just throw them away, than to say, You know what for the way that this is set up, this is actually producing exactly this is the system is actually working to produce exactly, you know what it's set up to produce that just takes a whole lot of a lot more work. It takes a lot more collective work and responsibility, and we have been and it also requires us to do more introspection and kind of look at ourselves as a society and say, How am I contributing to this system? How am I contributing to this environment? And that's a hard, much harder look than saying this person is asshole or jerk or they did something bad, you know, so
how much is the barrel and how much is the sorry?
They could be an asshole too.
Oh, yeah,
something with them.
And here's the thing too, about that, if this person is an asshole and they're rich and this person is an asshole and they're poor, they should suffer the same amount at whatever asshole this whatever our meter is for ass, hold them, but not have a greater amount that they suffer for their ass. Hold them. You know, just like greater not that have it be a situation where it's greater punishment for that? Is that a scientific term? It is a scientific term, ass, hold up. And if it's not, listen, when I get my PhD in a year or so, I'm going to make it a word, then
you can get away with it. Then, right? Create words.
You just make up stuff.
Just say what I say. You know what I'm talking about. Fool, right? Don't echo,
you know what I'm saying? Well, you know what,
where we just focus on, you know, individuals, and not do the hard work or the hard lifting of changing the tree. You know, we wanted to kind of change the apple, per se, in some ways, is work avoidance, and so it's a lot easier to focus on what we see than it is to do the hard lifting. And as you said, recognize how we may be contributing, even though it may be different degrees of contributing to the issue, or whatever we're talking about. You know, not everyone, necessarily, our communities are or institutions are, are contributing equally to it, but we're contributing something, and recognizing that in the process, which is kind of helps us to then move toward change. I think, yeah,
I mean, and that's hard too, um, that's hard not because I will tell you, um, who was it first? I think it was Trayvon that had to hit me the hardest, because that was earlier on. It was, it was just one that just, like, jacked up my whole mind, um, and not just him being shy, but him being shy, and nothing happened to the person. Because I was just like, damn, they really don't care. Like, they like, really, you know, people really don't care about, um, about um, human life, um, or care about some people's life other ones. But the thing that I started to challenge myself on right and this, and like you said, Leslie, different levels of contribution. How did I contribute to that? And one of the ways that I felt like that I possibly have contributed to that is ways in which I have, or may have, gave the impression as a CO and then sometimes in like communities of color, just gave the impression that I value Trayvon and everybody that looks like Trayvon less, that I buy into this threatening, limiting African American male, right? Or that I buy or that I promote, that that person is a is, is a threat like I just had to ask myself that question, and then I even asked my question self that question on a more collective in terms of if there was fear of retribution, I don't think that that would have happened now. And I'm not saying pure retribution, as in, like people go shoot up people, sort of thing. But if they fear whether it's economic power or political power or what have you, then that wouldn't went down. So why don't they fear that? And that's because we're not we're not collectively supporting and or giving the the impression that we value Trayvon life less as well, and there's no fear of because punishment is more of a you know, people care about consequences. So, so that's a conversation that I had to have with myself. And like, how did I contribute to not not really so much as much his death, but how much did I contribute to the belief, or the idea that you can do this and nothing will happen and no one will care.
All right,
what you know, and this conversation is, you know, is a little difficult to have, because on, you know, part of the pushback on it is, Are you blaming the victim, right? So, are you a blame blaming, putting the blame on groups that are oppressed or marginalized to do the what
happened? To everyone? Both of you went away at the same time.
Okay, you're back.
I don't know, is Chad back
again? Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry, blaming the victim,
you know, right? Because there's this, so either you blame one or blame the other, but not looking at there's, there's a space in between. There's meaning in between the two, right? And so I think that I can see from communities acquiescing, so making the exchange for silence, for whatever their comfort zone is, it could be a job. It could be, you know, maintaining a friendship, or something of that. So not taking a risk, per se, to lose something in the process. And so I do think, you know, we can, there's a responsibility in this, and then reframing it in such a way where, you know, it's kind of the set kind of conversation that generally happens, for example, with with Nate Parker, and people automatically labeling folks as rape apologists or other things of that nature, or blaming the victim, and some of that does go on, and in some ways that can be dismissive of a more critical conversation or analysis around these more difficult issues. You know, so on the one hand, we want to affirm the humanity of people who are being oppressed, but we also want to recognize, how can we move forward with change, right, like you're talking about, how can we recognize, in little or small ways, how we are allowing, to some degree, these systems continue to perpetuate itself? Now I will, I don't really like like when we have conversations with other black folks, and we'll sit there and we'll say, well, we don't like each other, we don't get along. And it's really negative, right? It comes from this really negative place. And in some ways, we're pathologic. We are pathological, you know, I can't even say the word, pathologizing each other in this process, yeah, affirming each other. We're kind of perpetuating these images and stories and not recognizing how, why we do see some of the behavior that we do see, or why, you know, taking a step back and seeing why these things don't go on. And so I think there's a way to frame the conversation where that does not necessarily happen. You know, I tend to want to think of the best in people, but that doesn't mean people don't disappoint me. But you know that do the best we can with the information we have at the time for the most part. So, yeah, I mean, you know, so I've been thinking about that too, in which ways have I accepted or internalized some of the messages, or I have stayed silent, not to speak up, and trying to figure out ways to, you know, to be more agents of change in that process, and it's hard. I mean, on the one hand, you know, once you convince, once you recognize what you're doing, then finding other people who also recognize that, or how do you have conversations and get other people to see that too, you know, in the process of change. And it can be a difficult it
can be difficult. These conversations are extremely difficult. And, you know, I listen to somebody else say this too, but I've kind of said it myself in a less eloquent way. But it's really hard to have these conversations in a sort of rational, meaningful way when it seems like a lot of us are sort of coming at it from this defensive crouch. So it's very hard to have these sort of conversations in a like, kind of blunt, straightforward, like to the facts kind of way, when everybody is already coming from it with their shield out, you know, it's, it's hard, but I think it's breaking through a little bit. I think if we, like, obviously, I'm a white guy, so like, if I, if I keep trying, I know it's hard to believe it must be the beard, if, but if I keep poking at it right, I'll learn something. And, yeah, I. I just mean that I want to have these conversations because I'm trying to learn is what it is I come like so, you know, I'll say things, and they may come, they may be offensive at times, not that I'm meaning to be offensive. But how do you how do you have these conversations sometimes, when the topic, like I said, is, is that we're already coming at it from this, this either from resentment or or a historical context, or, like I said, just from a defensive posture and the uh, the we have to, sort of, like, be direct and blunt about it, and that's what's going to change this sort of environment, where we're not just automatically, like, putting the arm up and being like, you know, forget that. You know, I'm not listening to you, because you just don't get it, you're you're insensitive, or you don't understand, or, like, check your privilege, or whatever the the comments might be. But I mean, I'm willing to, like, take some of the heat just so that I can learn, right? And I'm sure there's some times where I might say things that are maybe slightly insensitive, not meaning to be, or, like, ignorant and like, I've already said a couple of times just in this I'm not even saying anything outrageous that I feel slightly defensive, not because of either of you, but just your own, some somewhat of the nature of the conversation, in my own ignorance so
well. I mean, yeah, but so change, change happens on generally, on an emotional level. I mean the ways in which our minds work to work. I mean, the ways our minds work to resist new information is staggering. I mean, we have confirmation bias, right? So we look for information to confirm what we already believe and discount information that does not confirm that. You know, then the cognitive dissonance that happens when you're confronted with new information. And so I agree. So you know, you have to have some sense of comfort with being this, being uncomfortable. So some disruption to some degree on you know, your sense of normalcy, whether that's a story that hits you on an emotional level, whether it's information that impacts you or anyone else, it has to be disruptive. I guess there's some really lovey dovey stories that also hit on the emotional level too. But beyond the stories, then, how do we move towards some systemic chain?
Yeah, how do we change this environment? You know what I mean, that we're all in? Like, how do you get out of it? Like, either from my side or from your side, or whoever side it might be, whatever their situation might be. How do you sort of, like, knock it, knock it off, like, you know what I mean, it's like, without sort of dismissing things. You know, I don't want to be dismissive or sound dismissive, but I mean, at a certain point you have to kind of just be, like, knock it off already. Like, let's, let's move forward here. Okay, we've, you know, we've kind of spoken from our sides, and we've kind of done battle, and we've kind of, you know what I mean, there's, there's resentment here and hate here and dislike here, and, you know, there's some of this injustice here. Okay, we've, we've aired all this out. Right now, let's, let's make the change, and then, like, move forward. So, you know, maybe that's just a long process, and this, maybe this is how it happens. It's just simple conversations that are happening all over the place. I mean, I'm sure we're not the only people having conversations, but, um,
no, I think conversation, you have to talk to each other, so that's that's important, but I think you have to also, wherever your spirit influences, figure out how you can best affect change line, it's the family, if it's in your, you know, work environment, wherever that is, you know, then I think you have to figure out what's mode of method to affect change there.
You're saying a mouthful there. I've been saying that a lot, and I I'm. Think one of the honest people who say that the sort of work environment that I'm in, the social environment that I'm in my in my area, in the town I'm in, you know my neighbors, that you know the people at the grocery store, or wherever I might be when you sort of hear or see these sorts of injustices happening, whatever they might be, you know, sexuality, race, whatever the issue might be, when you see this sort of dehumanizing or or ignorant position, you know, you kind of got, you got to kind of poke it and say, No, not here. You're not doing that. That's wrong. But like, I I find myself wanting to do that, like, in a visceral sense, many times through my day, even some days more than others. But like, you know, say, my coworkers, for instance, are, are fairly, you know, a middle class, white Christian, Republican kind of thought. So you know, I'm not holding that against them, necessarily, but you know they have a specific mindset. And when you hear it, you know it. And I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, I have an internal, visceral reaction where I want to say and do something, but I know it's going to be a world of hurt for me. So it's mostly cowardice that keeps me from these things, because it affects my life a great deal. So but I want, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, when is the sort of, this sort of breaking point where, where I'm going to be able to, like, shut this stuff down, or, like, voice my opinion in a way that that it's known that this is, this is, this isn't going to fly anymore. I mean, when am I going to be able to do that and not fear for my own life and safety and welfare of my children? And you know what I mean, it's, I know it sounds drastic, but it's really true.
Well, I think, I think a lot of what you're talking about is very real, Chad. And I think some of some of the ways to approach that is that there is, I think sometimes we can talk about critiquing the ideology without attacking the person. Right? All knowledge come from a Knower. Yeah, they
can't even do that right, because, because people don't have that mindset. I mean, I do you do
right? I think if you talk about the idea, I mean, I think it's easier to critique an idea than it is to go towards a person, because then, you know, people get more defensive, and that sort of thing. And I also think some of the challenges behind trying to have some of those conversations is that we don't go into it with a certain level of not only self awareness, but positionality, like, how are we positioned within the context of a particular situation, and how does that play into how we view things? For example, I know that when I come into a situation or when I see or view something, I know that I'm viewing it with with my my race, my gender, my background, my lived experience, all of those things. So it allows me to be able to say, like, I know I'm looking at this this way because of this, and you're probably looking at this this way, because it is, and it's not a matter of, you know, necessarily being right or wrong, but if we could just get to a point first where we could say that nobody has a monopoly on the truth, and that everybody is looking at this through a particular lens That is colored by their experiences, values and beliefs, and if we could just start with that, I think that that would be monumental. But no, I think everybody thinks that they have the monopoly on the truth, and whatever is the difference from how they're viewing something is bad. Now I'm not going to say that I'm any better. Not much better one situations where it comes to like, I'm not challenging, like my 92 year old grandmother on her belief system, like, for what? No, you know what I mean. Like, I don't, I don't see the relevance of the or the or the importance of that, and I don't know how relevant or important it is in one to one relationship, so much as it is when it comes about, like in a communal aspect, or in a situation where you could, where you can actually impact change. And I think that if you can just critique and pull back the layers and have the conversation and get them to think about why they think about the things that. They do in the way that they do that.
I try very hard. I mean, I'm a pretty big student on, you know, the Socratic method and and, like really asking questions rather than and stating opinions. But you know, when you when I hear somebody say something, I'm constantly thinking about how I could get in there somehow, like, how am I going to get in with this person where they're not viewing me as this attacker, if you will, this, this, this person who's trying to point something wrong about them. And it's, maybe it's my own specific experience, and it is anecdotal, but I mean, this world that I'm living in, I don't, I mean, I, I don't know if I could even get in there with an ax. I mean it's, it's tough. I mean it's, it's a solid oak tree, and I'm I looking for weak points, but there's not many. Well, don't
what I'm gonna say. One thing I'm gonna let Leslie talk, say whatever she was about to say. But the thing is, maybe not try to, maybe not try to attack or get in there with an ex, but just like, get curious and just like, ask, like, ask questions, really, not to tear it down. But like, why do you what I'm saying for yourself, but for them in terms of like, so why? Why do you think that you use, let's say, if they said something like, I don't know, all black people are monkeys. Why is it that you think that they're monkeys? Like, when you say that, or do you think, like, biological that
ain't gonna fly? Nope, I'm already done. You're one of them. Call me liberal, liberal pinkos, aren't you? You're a sodomite lover. If I, if I ask the question outright, like that, like, if I, even if I'm just, like, Why do you think that is, I mean, that curious about that? Like, there, like, what you don't think black people monkeys. What's wrong with you? You're one of them, commie liberals, aren't you? Like, you know, you asking questions. It's awful suspicious. You asking questions all the time. What's wrong with you? Are you Christian? Like, I'm serious.
So that's interesting, because I want to know more about the group that we're talking about, but you can tell me that in a minute, if you want to. My initial thought is this is that you don't fix people, you know. So people aren't created to be in this idea that we fix people is, is interesting. I mean, although it's, you know, and analyzing ideas which kind of goes to the point you were making, you know, looking at the ideologies, and not necessarily the people, people, but this idea that you go in and fix people, I think that's counterproductive. So what about an approach where you just own who you are in that process? Yeah, the best you with your ideas and being able to express and if you can't do that, then maybe there's some other questions that are important for you to ask yourself about the space that you're in, you know, is this a good space for you to be in where you can't be fully who you
are, not,
not in a way where you're trying to be dogmatic, but just being who you are in that doesn't really Sound like you're able to be fully who you are.
Well, well, that's kind of what I'm talking about is, is that I can't even have conversations with these people, because I if the only way that I can have conversations is basically to be fake, I have to take on this, this act. I have to be an actor who's playing one of them, because if I be myself too much, I get a suspicious eye. And they're their nose starts going. They're like, Something doesn't smell right. Are you? Are you sure you're okay? Like, did you hit your head or something? So
what are your options here? I'm just wondering, in this particular situation, and my
option isn't to change I'm not trying to change people. I'm trying to educate
that's that's gonna get exhausting.
I mean, how? Okay, so is it not all are when, like, I say though, like, if let's just be straight up about it, let's say I saw somebody. Let's take a drastic example, right? So something that we would all agree with, like, let's say I found somebody in the bathroom raping a young child. Out. Okay, what would you do about that? Would you just be like, well, you know, that's their life, you know, not mine, you know, I'm not gonna change that. So no, we wouldn't do that, right? That's a ridiculous thing to say. We would try and stop it any way we could, right, even put ourselves in danger. Okay, so let's take something a little less drastic. You know, what if we saw somebody, some young kid, stealing a candy bar, right? But would you say something? Would you do something? So, like, so, like, we don't have to, necessarily, that's what I'm saying, though, is like when you see these sorts of behaviors, when, when you see these sorts of actions happening, like, what sort of responsibility do I have to, like, kind of, at least, hey, like, what like, why are you doing that? Like, this, this isn't right, and this is why it's not right. Like, and you can do it in many different ways. You can be blunt about it and just be like, Look, that's stupid man. Why are you doing that? That's that's ignorant. This. You need to learn, learn something here this educate stuff.
I feel like we do those sort of things in situations where we feel like we can actually affect change, like in the situation that you were talking about earlier, it didn't seem like you could affect change with the candy bar thing. You can with the child being raped, you can. But in some situations where you may not feel like you can necessarily, you know what I mean? Affect changing in that situation, we're probably less likely to act and
so I'm stuck being somebody I'm not.
What do you mean when you say,
be a free I can't be a free person in the in a free country, because I have to be somebody I'm not all most of the time. I mean, I have I can be free at at home. I can be free with my friends. But, you know, like half of my life, basically, I can't at certain functions, at other people's houses, at work, at, you know, just out and about, at the grocery store. You know, you can't, can't just be yourself all the time. I mean it, are you? Are you saying, telling me that you don't put on some sort of faces for for different situations, like, say, in your work or school environment, or whatever, mine just is a drastic example is, is that I can't, I can't let on any kind of like liberal idea at all.
That's interesting.
So what are they gonna set that all around? What are
the I'm just curious. So what have you what are the consequences of you actually saying something? What has happened?
Well, I've never brought it to a drastic point, but I've definitely tested the waters a few times, and just having a conversation with somebody, and they're saying ignorant thing after ignorant thing after ignorant thing. And I, you know, I don't come at them at all, but I just sort of be myself and state my opinion about it, or I even try, like I know maybe Rasheem knows about what SE is and all that stuff. So, I mean, I use those sorts of techniques so, so I even, I even try and do a better job than just be myself. I try to be myself with a delicate, you know, touch. So that's what I meant by like, I'm trying to find these, these points where I can kind of, you know, express myself and not in an attacking way, but not get the attack back from them. So, you know what I'm saying. So, and then the thing, the consequences are, this is that, well, if it's a minor offense, sort of like, Oh, I've just kind of like, made this person feel uncomfortable about themselves, right? And talking to me, they might sort of kind of shun me at work, like, you know, though they won't help me or talk to me, or, like, give me heads up on things, or, you know what I mean, like, and then if it's, if it's a little bit worse than that, they might start saying stuff around the office to other people. And then I would get affected by all the rest of those people, right? So just make my job even more difficult. And then I would feel, you know, unwelcomed, and I wouldn't be getting I'm a service technician, so I need the help of my everybody on this, on the team, right? So if I don't have it, it makes my job almost impossible. And then if it goes even further than that, right? So then they start looking for reasons that the. Find mistakes with me, right? So they can be like, well, you know, you're not doing this and that, and you need to pick it up, and then it might even go so far as to fire my ass.
Have you had this happen to you?
Like I said, I'd never taken it to that point. The last job I was at, I almost did, because they were saying such ridiculously hateful, ignorant things that it just like I almost didn't have a chance. I actually stood there at my job with tears coming out of my eyes because I felt so strongly about what they were saying and that I had to, I had to hold it back that it was making me cry like it was just intense what they were saying and like, I just can't I can't stand it when I hear that shit. So like, it I pushed on the boss at that point. I was just like, you know, when you're saying those things, you have to be aware of the people around you and the consequences of your words, and that's what I told him, and like, I felt the heat of that for months, and I had to basically smooth that over, and I didn't even sit that's exactly what I said to him. And so I didn't even say anything specific or mean or hateful to him or anything like that. I just simply was like, Look, you got to watch yourself here, because you don't know who you're talking or who's hearing you or who these people are. I was like, so like, you know you have your ideas and you can have your ideas, but like, you gotta be careful about how you're who you're saying it around, right? And that was just to protect myself, basically.
So kente just joined. Joined us. Kente from indie radio. Kente from my screen above you is Leslie Keeney, and then, of course, to your left is Chad Eckert, the whole little Brady Bunch situation. I'm not sure how everybody is showing up. But to bring kente in, we're kind of just really talking about the ability to affect positive change. And you know, our level of our sphere of influence and different things. And so what Chad was just sharing is how, basically challenges around speaking up in situations where if something comes up and you feel like it is against what you believe, or um, or what have you, how, how do you navigate that space? And he's talking about situations where he's in situations where people will say something. I hear it echo. Is that me? Oh, where he's in situations where people say something that is offensive or derogatory,
downright hateful, hate, like, like, hateful stuff, like hateful stuff, like, it's one thing to be just ignorant and, like, bigoted and stuff like that. But like this, this is, this is beyond that. It's all that. So
those are the things that he's experiencing. Um, one of the things that I mentioned was around, um, well, one of the things that Leslie mentioned was actually around, you know, don't, maybe not, maybe not necessarily, put yourself in Not, not put yourself in those situations, but not trying to change other people, not try to do that sort of thing. And he was, and then Chad brought up, okay, to what extent does that go to if you see a child and they're being attacked, sexually assaulted, not jumping in. And then a point that I brought up was
we typically take action to the degree that we feel like we can affect project change. And it sounds like he's in a situation where
he can't do a whole lot about so that's kind of where we are in the conversation. Thank you.
Look, I've, I've never in my life been afraid to speak my opinion on a situation. So let's see, is that better? Yeah, okay, I've never been afraid to to my thoughts in a situation that I felt like was necessary to affect, let's say, a positive change. Um, I think that is that better?
I sounds good on mine. Oh, okay,
okay. But I think that, you know, not everybody has the internal, whatever you want to call it, to do that. Some people, they just don't have it in them. They don't have whatever that thing is to speak up, and I don't. Know. I mean, I don't know if it's something that, you know, we should get on people for, you know, to speak up and speak out, but you definitely want to. There's things that you can do if you don't have that in, you know, to do that, you know? I mean, I mean, in many ways,
yeah,
go ahead. Rasheem,
you can. One of the things too, is when you, when you do have it in, you speak up, and it's gonna, like, whether or not it's gonna affect your livelihood, or whether or not you speaking up in the in, like, your own community, like, Would you speak up against? Like, within your within your quote, unquote, in group? I think that those are probably where it's probably a little bit more challenging. One word affect your livelihood, and two, where it's like part of your nucleus, whether it's your family or organization you're a part of or what have you,
you have a great example of that. I don't know if you guys are aware of this NFL quarterback named Colin Kaepernick who's deciding to not stand for the national anthem, and a lot of people are going in on him because they feel like he's being disrespectful and all of this craziness. And I give him so much credit, because I wouldn't, I'm a big sports fan. II would have been the guy to make that kind of stand. And I have nothing, but I like, I have nothing but for having all and my thing is this, we have certain people that have made that speak up and speak out, because to be honest with you, you're not going to make change by just going with the flow. Right? In order to make change, you gotta make a way. You gotta provoke conversation. And that comes by, I don't know what that you you know, I think that
support people when they Take, you know, because he, he may never play again, you know, they're going to definitely use that to try to blacklist him from the league. And I think that he should have the support of the people to help him through this, because I think it's, it's a major thing that he's doing and that he's bringing attention to this issue, you know. So I think that's a great example of what you're speaking Yeah.
And, you know, I do think and appreciate what Kaepernick did do. It was certainly a risk, and took some amount of courage, you know, at the same time, I think the risk that he's taking is different from someone who may be as two children, you know, and on the margins and saying something, right? So the risk you're taking,
what you got going on over there?
Put the link to the article in here. But, oh, super long. Go ahead. I'm listening like,
you know, the risk is different. I mean, he What makes $14 million a a year, or, you know, and he and so even if he did lose his job because of taking that risk, and I'm not saying it's not a risk, and that it wasn't important that he did what he did from a public perspective and being a professional football player, I'm just saying that the risk is different than someone who is doesn't have as much, not making as much, let
me ask you, this certainly
be I give you a chance. I give you a chance like I said. I mean, I appreciate what the brother has done, but I also can recognize why certain people, under certain circumstances, may not take a particular risk. So, you know, and we do weigh the cost versus the benefits of the choices that we make. So, I mean, I can, I think that, you know, it's like we extol the virtues of these billionaires who give up some of their fortune for the less fortunate, and but in reality, it's very a small percentage of what of their entire wealth. And while it may impact things from a positive perspective, in the grand scheme of things. Things, it ain't really much, and the risk wasn't really that high. So I guess what I'm saying is, is that you know that there are varying types of risk, and you're right, in order to affect positive change, we have to make some risk. I mean, you know, I haven't always spoken out about certain things that, you know, some things I have and some things I haven't. I was in a meeting this past week, and I spoke up, and I was the youngest person in that particular group, and it was a racially mixed group, and I spoke out about an issue there, and none of the other black folks said anything until afterwards. They were like, Yeah, I'm glad you said something. I'm like, Well, why didn't you say something? Why didn't you want me to do but so that's all I'm saying. You know, I appreciate him taking a stand and all of that, and the the risk of doing that, and then I think what it is done is catapult catapulted, a conversation not only about police brutality, but about the national anthem and how problematic that is in and of itself. And I've read other, you know, professional athletes, one has come out and said they're not going to stand as well. And there have been other stories about other athletes that in the past, historically, who have not stood. And so I think there's a conversation in that about what, what is patriotism? What does that mean, the complexity of history and the characters in history, and just things that we don't know. So that's just my take on that. But what was your question? You had
a question, not necessarily a question, but I feel like it's unfair for you to say that that brother is not taking a risk, or his risk doesn't matter. First of all, he's a public person doing something that angers a lot of people his life,
taking a risk. I didn't say. It didn't matter. I said, but you
kind of said, though, like, Oh, it wasn't that big of a risk because he's so rich, or whatever. First of all, he's taking a list a risk for his safety. Number one, and there's no amount of money that can you know for your safety. You know if you if your safety is at jeopardy, that's a big deal also, too, is that, you know, believe me, $14 million which I don't even think he's really getting. But, uh, $14 million believe me, you don't want to throw away $14 million you know, I don't care how rich you are, like, I'm sure you got money yourself, and you wouldn't want $100 to go away. So, you know, so that that man's money is a big deal, you know, and if you have that kind of mentality that $14 million ain't nothing, you ain't gonna be rich very long. So I think that we ask our athletes and our entertainers to make a stand, and then when they make a stand, we gotta support them. And I think it is a big deal. It's a huge deal with this brother is doing, and I think that, and for the fact that the conversation is being started, and then also to your it's it's allowing other people to feel like I can do it too, like I can make a stand as well. That's why I appreciate it, what he would, what he's done, and I don't want to belittle that at all. It's a I think it's amazing, and I think that the more of us that that do that, I think that it opens the door, and that's why we need a support system around people like that who choose to do something of that nature. So that's all I was trying to say, was I give that. I give him a lot of respect, and he his career is at a crossroads right now, somebody was saying that in the chat where, you know, he may never play again, you know, because of this. And it was another guy 20 years ago, and I'm so glad that media is starting to show this. It was a guy named Mahmoud Abdul Rauf, and I remember this very well, formerly known as Chris Jackson, who made a similar stand 20 years ago, and he ran his ass out the NBA, the guy, you know, they really did a number on his career. So, you know, so you can lose a lot by doing that. And he was a very successful athlete, you know, who making money and his stand cost him everything, and he didn't get support really, like he should have from us, the people.
Well, this is, let me, if I may, respond to that. So let me make it clear. So Katherine Nikki, it took courage and it was a risk. Period, $14 million is a lot of money, period. Now, if the single mother with two kids decides that at her son's football game that she is not going to stand for the anthem, the risk that she is taking without the Social. Safety net in place is a greater risk than Catherine. What? It's an important risk, you know, but I am not going to say that. What arguing
about whose risk is greater. That's silly, like that's
it's not silly to me, because everyday people make risk every risk every day. I'm thankful for him taking the risk. I'm thankful that he has a he has the publicity that he has. But I'm saying that what also happens on the everyday basis is you have people who are taking risk, like him. And so we're just talking about conversations about because Chad talked about taking risks and the impacts of taking risks from his perspective. So I'm just folding that into a conversation on everyday people taking risks as well. You know, I'm a fan of Katherine Nikki. I might buy his jersey because of what he did. You know, I'm thankful that people are talking about what he's done great, but he's not, you know, that's fine. I appreciate it. I support him publicly. I respect him. I equally support people who don't, you know, who are not in the public eye, who are doing things as well, and so we were talking about, before you came in, kente, about Chad, and about how Chad has some difficulties in the context in which he is in and the risks and the rewards and things that happened to him in the context of taking risks. And so that's all I'm saying. I agree with you. I don't disagree with the point that you
are you're talking like I don't get what you're saying. There's
like agreement, but there's like point of disagreement, which is cool, like everybody got there on the scene. That's fine, but, and I also think that the the point that kente brought up was in response to what I said about people, I'm right coming to you. Are you on mute? Chad, because I can't hear you. I don't know if you're talking right now. Talking right now. Yep, I can't hear you. Uh, was in response to when I made the comment about how it might be different for a person based on, if it's based on their income, what else would I say, or if they're staying in group? And Kente brought out a point. This is a person he took a stand, and it was based on that income, just as a example, which is awesome. So one thing that I really want to do really quick is acknowledge everybody who is watching in the chat. I'm not going to pronounce the first name right till it began. Please charge it to my head and not to my heart. I'm just going to say the last name, Daniel. Thank you for joining Tachi Durham, Skyrider, Pat leomi, Kiana Steph, which is my co host on another show, Leslie, who is live and in full effect, she thought she would just come on, coming on for a quick I gotcha. Um, me, I like to thank myself for being here. You know what I mean, science, kente of NJ, sorry, of nd radio co host on the Mars and Venus and say the full name kente.
Men and women talk the Mars Venus show, starring, starring Kente and Rasheem. Rasheem,
sorry, I feel like I should walk in slow motion with like a big flame behind me. Um, mamita and uh surge as well. Thank you guys for joining. We just kind of jumped into this so, um, anybody else who wanted to comment on in terms of risk and that sort of thing. Another thing that I saw happening in the news, and we could come back to this, this particular thing as well. One of the other things that I saw happen in the news that I thought was interesting is how Trump is on this thing of black people, what you got? Do you lose? I don't know if you guys heard that. Just kind of like, I know Tachi, where he was just kind of like, um, you're dying, you're unemployed, you're the least educated. He's a waste of skin, um, all of these things. And then he was kind of like, black people, what do you got to lose? Kente, did you see that or hear that?
Yeah, because, you know, I, I follow Trump every day. I know he do. I wake up in the morning and I, I look and see what he said, because, you know, I'm voting for him. And you know, that's my, that's, that's my, our next president. There. There? No, I did see that. You know, you know what's so funny about the whole Trump thing is he's the same guy. He's always been, I don't know why people are acting like they're surprised. He's been a national all the time. This is the guy that he was 20 years ago, 30 years ago, whenever he came on the scene as a public figure. So why are people shocked like what is so shocking about the way he's acting? This is how he's always, you know, possibly could be the president united states, but that's the only thing different. He's the city. He's always this guy. When he was taking pictures with Hillary and Bill and they were yucking it up. He was that same dude. Now, all of a sudden they got a problem with it, guy that they were buddies with before it's let's talk a bunch of BS,
yeah. So go to some of the comments. I think Steph is responding to what we're saying earlier. She said measuring risk means trying to measure the future. It's what I do for a living. Measure risk, and if you are a person of little influence, socially or economically, the risks are less than those who are affluent influence on the national level. That's interesting. Um, yes, he has been consistently in response to kente comment on Trump, yes, he has been consistently racist, classist, sexist, and every is Beth says the difference between a poor person losing a job and a rich person losing a job. And then David said, Oh, Lord, anytime Kente is involved, is trouble.
David vine
Steph says that you have more instinct. So one of the things that I can say that I appreciate, and Leslie, jump in whenever you're ready. One of the things I appreciate about this whole thing, this whole Trump phenomenon, and it being more on a national platform, is that people feel more comfortable to articulate and share their different biases. And I am so really appreciating that, because I like to see and know who people are. So that is one of the things that I am really appreciating about this whole something. And I, you know, I, for one, really do appreciate it. I really do. How do you feel about Trump? Leslie, you voting for him?
Yep, that's right. The blacks for Trump.
You diamond down. Other chick names, diamond Who is it? I forgot her name. What's the other one? Name, kente.
I'm in dumber.
He's shocking. Jobs,
Coon and coon cooner,
somebody's coming in.
I just invited Pat,
right? So I think one of the other issues with Trump is the media is really giving him, like carte blanche. They don't really challenge him much. He hasn't been challenged. Oh, great race.
Oh, earphones must be me. What's going on there?
What's going
on? Okay, educate on and got the test. Um, if somebody else want to keep they gave
it to me, though I appreciate it. I appreciate
it like the brothers standing up. I
know. No, and that's not what we just don't have to agree to disagree on my interpretation of things.
Really giving him a carte blanche. They haven't really challenged them much, and I think it's because of the ratings that they're getting, because of the absurd things that he's saying. No one has challenged him on some of the absurd things that he's talking about, as far as African Americans. I mean, they just posted without any critical analysis of that and everything else, because they're both other candidates are problematic. So because he's so blatantly problematic in terms of what he says, that it makes eyes it's harder for them to see the other issues with the person that you can't say their name and you can't. Remember that that am I right? Rasheem,
the person that you got, I can't, I still can't remember
their name, right, right? You know, so forever. But yeah, it has it. It has created an environment where people are much more open, um, bias, racist. I have seen some of that, too. And like you, I think that's a good thing.
Think about it. Before Trump, it was already going back. I mean, you know, he's just taking advantage of it. It was already going there. You know, they were taken. Think about What's that girl's name that makes all the stuff, food, that makes you get diabetes? Say her name, holiday, right? What she said, and then she was going dancing with the star. Look at uh, the dog, the bounty hunter, you know? Look at uh, Hulk. Hogan just went on, how you how you be racist? Why you having sex? You're having sex, and you still got black people on your mind, and you're being racist. And this guy just got a settlement. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. Hulk Hogan just got a settlement after the whole his whole scandal, racist and whatever from the tape, or whatever, dead spin, I think it's dead. Yeah, the darker that's the doctor, yeah. So, I mean, this ain't Trump. Trump is just Hulk Hogan, his daughter was dating a black guy and talking about, you know, he didn't want to date, or something like that, and the tape got out and all of this stuff, and then he ended up hunting for,
you know, so it's the best thing to ever happen to him, you know, yeah,
There was someone else's involved with that lawsuit, or they used Hogan as the way to Gawker because Docker outed him. He was another some
gay, rich food, right? Yeah,
yep, I'm
like, she like me on tape. Go in the 100 40 million.
Yeah. So I'm out. I'm sure this will be a good conversation. All right,
what you got to say? Oh, what's he drinking on? I'm on phone. That's that brown too. What's going on? Sweet Tea, baby. Oh, I thought that was that Crown Royal song. Oh no, oh no.
I don't drink. I don't drink, and if I do, that means something really bad happened, like the wrong person became president.
Away, though, to be honest with you, you might move we ain't going nowhere. No, I said I might drink either way. Oh,
I mean, like, Oh, my goodness, honest with you, I'm not happy about Hillary either. I'm like, Yeah, but she's a lesser of two evils. What the heck we have? We have nothing to lose, right? We're nothing. We have nothing to lose. We have nothing to lose. Nothing. Because we have we have nothing. Why
are we ignoring her?
Who? Who?
Jill Stein, she's running on the Green Party. Let
me pay attention to those other parties. That's just throwing away a vote. We worked hard to for this right to vote. We didn't throw away votes on
I feel like challenging time when we get to a point where voting for the person that you actually think should be president is throwing away the vote, that's the time when we should really think about our whole democratic system,
you know, you and I really believe is at work well,
until, until parties can somehow gain parity, and that's not going to happen, unless there's serious reform, I will continue to think that
way. You know what I you know what I really think is like Hillary's going to win, right? But I think if
Hillary just won, so definitely by the Metro College, yeah, we
wouldn't be, you know, we wouldn't be all that happy, right, that Hillary get in there. So I think they put Darth Vader in there, so that when Hillary does get in, we'll be so happy that the evil madman glad she's here, and then that's when she's going to come and give it to us too.
I've lived through, I've lived through so many ridiculous presidents. It's not that big a deal. What
are you talking about? Talking about Trump. Trump, I just don't want to
see. No, no, not Trump. I mean, Hillary, oh, it would be, it would be horrendous if he became president. I. I'm just saying I have lived through some pretty ridiculous president, couple cool ones, but I'm just
saying Trump, she's coming. Like, I don't want Trump to be president. Oh, my God, no. I The main reason is I don't want to see his face. Like, you know how another word from the President? I'm like, oh shit. Like, that's the worst part when Bush was president, is you had to see his ass on TV. You know, I couldn't even say his name. You would walk into a government building in his goofy ass picture.
This is what's this is the thing there's, there is the possibility. Because I really think that the Republican Party really wants, they had, who, who we, who they currently have position as the VP. I think President, I think he's going to be the Trojan horse through which, once he and Trump get in, everybody's going to work together to get rid of Trump. And the VP is going to become, I think it's set up, and that's the plot twist.
What is moving into Texas is no longer an independent nation that was a long time ago. Didn't they succeed? They tried, come on, they already tried that they were a country for a few years. Here's the thing, Ghana has offered citizenship to every African American. So we can have dual citizenship if we want to. I might pick them up on that.
How's it? How's it? Is the internet pretty fast. It's
probably faster,
huh? Not Diana.
What happened?
She already almost married America. So what was your take on it? Why
is your voice so muffled? Or is that me? Because
I got it sitting on my thighs. You know, you sit down your thigh, spread, cover up everything. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes,
yes, ma'am, if
your thigh is approved,
no, I just picked it up because there's no
Huh, what does your thighs have to do with your mic? Well, the the mic
is on the where, where the mic is on my laptop.
Oh,
um, so I just picked
it up off my leg because she had Chad. Really wanted to say something. Is he gone? I don't know. He was trying so hard to get in. Well, he just
got muted, like something happened where he's not here anymore. I
thought he's gonna come back. I feel bad now.
Click the camera, but I don't know. Okay, here comes touchy. Okay.
Fire talk has been slightly problematic. I think it's making improvements. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. All
these black people, they brought the blab technical difficulty bug over.
We bought the virus with these people.
There she is, okay, I can't
see myself. Oh, I see myself now. Can you hear me? Yep, hey, catchy
tasting for you.
Oh, okay. Can you hear me?
Yeah, okay, good. And you're wearing that cap at that rakish angle again, that
here, that's the way I do it.
I hear echo Tati, are you? Is that a trick?
No, I'm, I'm, I have the earpiece in, and then I have my, um, my mic, hmm,
can say, say something.
Hello, you Rasheem. That's Rasheem. The only one not wearing earbuds must be you.
Pick on the black girl. That's what y'all do.
You know? What? We have nothing to lose. I just said today
that she went to school with Omarosa, right? I did. Omarosa is um, is his African is his black community outreach? Why they pick her? I'm not sure not, because she's not an intelligent, capable, capable sister. I just don't see her as having strong time. Ties with the black community, unless they just think that, by default, because she is black, that this is going to get him some type of in. Well,
first of all, that's like taking shots in the air. He's just trying to pick somebody black that he has some connection with, and they've actually had a connection for a long time. Because, as I said, when we were in school, Omarosa was Mrs. DC, which is part of the whole Miss Universe Organization. So this has been like since the 90s, that he's had a connection, and then she is her area of specialty was Steph said, Oh Lord, who let her in the past? Definitely. She also her area was political communication. So she has worked on the Hill, and had done some, you know, political stuff on the hill while, while we were in school. So
did work on the Hill is? This? She working? Yeah, I
can't remember exactly where she I know she did hell stuff. I I think it was white house too. I can't remember. It's all a blown out
for Bill Clinton in his White House. Yeah, I don't know. I know Trump Hillary, that's right.
I heard that Trump is scheduled to come on to, oh, I'm not sure I can hear you touching, okay,
I hear you now.
There's a bit of a delay. Oh,
hello. You
know what, though, what are we asking for? Because all these platforms are free, none of us pay a damn dime for them.
I love you. No, I paid plenty.
Why? When time they don't give any Yeah, they don't give two damns about your time.
So I just, and this is sweet tea, sweetie, God's gift to the south, besides freedom and watermelon freedom.
Wow. I was like, who's free? Give us some
right? What's that?
So, wait a minute. Interesting. Go ahead. No,
I was at you were asking before you had a question before I heard that that
he was supposed to come to some big, mega black church. Trump, when I say he's
hitting them all. He's making payments left and right. It's not even funny.
Excuse me while I zone out for a moment. Come in.
Okay, yeah, these, these preachers coming out for Trump. They're getting paid. There's no way that they would clown like that for free. They and yes, I use clown as a fresh Hey,
Ahmed, thank you for subscribing. So did you already comment um Tachi or pat on the Caber. Kaepernick, did I say it right?
Yeah. Colin. Kaepernick.
Kaepernick, I did not. And here's the thing. My thing is, like, go on. Absolutely. I stand with you. One thing we do not get to do is to police and oppress people's response to their oppression, regardless of the fact that he's a football player and he makes x amount, he absolutely does have something to lose. So it kills me when people are like, Oh, well, what is he complaining about, whether on whatever side, because he makes x, y, z, but when you're out of that uniform and you're on the street, guess what, you're just like everybody else. So money, status, degrees does not preclude you from being profiled, from being treated like everybody else. So I think we, I mean, I think we've all learned that a long time ago, that none of this insulates you from the ills of society when it comes to treatment of people of color as such, I think you have no choice but to stand with things that are just and right and and think about it like this. Would you ever have found a Jewish person in Nazi Germany of their own free will saluting the Nazi flag? I'm just saying I'm not trying to make an absolute comparison between the two. Well, I'm just saying I'm not trying to do that because for everybody, that's not necessarily the case so but I'm just saying that if you feel so persecuted, and you feel and there is proof that you're being. Persecuted that you're being shot down. Why would you then expect me to stand and show respect for the very song and the very flag that shows me disrespect? Only stupid people do that. And I don't think that people are thinking about that. They're just so caught up in this is America, the American way, and they don't look at the things that Americans are going through simply because it's not happening to you, does not make it invalid.
Yeah, that's like, I mean, you know, I just think it's funny, like, I don't stand up. I never stood up for it. I never stood up when I played sports. I didn't stand or put my hand over hard. I never say it. I've been in Dodger Stadium, for example, and I sit down for it, and I've had people look at me, give me dirty looks, and I'm like, what? They don't do nothing. So I'm right there with them. So that's not something I do anyway, so, and I'm right there with them. So I'm so proud of that cat. I'm very proud of him. That's why I'm, like, we gotta be supporting and we shouldn't be talking about who's, you know, who's, uh, thing is bigger, or whatever. I'm like, what? That's silly to me. That's silly. That's awesome. I think it's amazing. And
did you guys, I remember, oh, go ahead. I remember when I was a kid, back in 1968 when the black gentleman raised their fist during the Mexico Olympics, that for us, was thrilling. And I know I hope I'm not saying your name, right, wrong. Shana do Xanadu. Xanadu, okay, it's just a gesture, sure, but it was thrilling to us, who were just kids. Oh, Chelsea, okay. It made a huge impact. Of course, this was during the so called Black Power movement, and it was absolutely thrilling to see someone high profile. We didn't have a lot of high profile black folks in 1968 like we do now, and it was a pure thrill we were that really empowered us. We thought it was wonderful. Now, I don't know about how kids would feel today, I stand for the national anthem because, you know, well, actually, I don't go to sports games, but I guess if I did, I'd probably just stand up, because everybody else is I guess I'd have to really feel strongly to to protest. I think when I protest, I'd rather do it with the pen. Since I'm a writer, I guess we choose our battles. Sitting down is in itself a protest. And I think that's, you know, either, either. Either decision is fine for me, but for someone who's high profile, like this athlete. I never heard of him until today, because I don't follow sports anymore, but I think he did take quite a chance, because what often happens when you anger the type of white folks who have finally gotten their voice together since Obama's become president, I think you are taking you are taking risks when you stand against them. They they perceive themselves being attacked. They always whenever they disagree with someone, they they say they're being attacked. I actually remember when I did follow sports, who's a number 44 Henry Hank Aaron, when he got close to the Babe Ruth home run record, because he was going to break the record his life, his very life, was threatened, And we could not understand why anyone would be upset for someone hitting home runs, but he was a black man attacking the white Hero, Babe Ruth with his back. And I'm
sorry I just not to interrupt, but it calls out mediocrity when you are white in this society, and let's be honest, you are allowed to function as a mediocre individual. That doesn't mean that white people are mediocre. It's just that you are given a pass for being mediocre, that, you know. And there's this whole saying of, you know, we have to work twice as hard, three times as hard, for half as much, because we're not allowed to be mediocre. We just can't be so if you you know the fact that he's getting close and able to do that, that calls into question his talent and his mediocrity. When you've been told all along that you are the greatest thing since baked bread, and it's threatening, and people feel threatened by others success, because then that means that possibly won't be yours anymore. Never mind that there's enough to go around. So that's that's exactly what it is. The feeling threatened by other success calls out what you're not doing and calls out your mediocrity.
All right, there's a statement
I just want to refer to. I've heard this all my life about yellow black people having to you. Prove their black and all that stuff. And I know you're talking about, probably him, not me, but I still have to respond to it. Some of us were brought up very black. The people in my family range literally from the color white to the color black, and we were brought up very, being very, very proud. I never had to feel that I had to prove my blackness. And a lot of us, I don't know this man personally. I don't know anyone personally. I mean, you all are just friends of mine. I don't know I didn't grow up with any of you. I don't know how anyone feels here, but many of us were brought up a lot blacker than we look, if you want to say it that way. And I have heard a lot of darker skinned people kind of sneer at the light ones who are, you know, pro black power and all that, because we have to prove ourselves. Um, it's not necessarily true. I've run into so many dark skinned people who would challenge my blackness, and they seem to know nothing about being black except poverty. Challenge your blackness, a lot of some of
them, yeah, why would they tell me? Why blackness? Well,
I was, I've been nappy since 1969 and that was quite the statement. Back then, we were, we were brought up, very pro black. We were brought up. In fact, my my parents had black art on the walls. And back then, the kids were like, Oh, your parents are, like, radical or, you know, what are they like? You know, start, what's this ungawa Black Power stuff? But we were brought up being, I don't know why. We were just brought up being very I had very hip parents, and we were just steeped in black history, black culture, black power. We were taught to buy black anyway. I don't want to go on and take over the show, but I just wanted to make make the statements that very often, sometimes dark skinned black folks think that it's enough just being dark to be black. And to me, that's not enough. It's not enough. You got to know your history. You've got to shop with your people. You've got to you've got to be able to counter racism, because you're not going to be able to change your color unless, of course, you put on black face or something. But I think it's very important for us, of all shades and hairstyles and eye colors, to know our history and realize Black is still black. I mean, if, if I'm in an environment where we're disliked, I'm still disconnected, just like everybody else you know different, they're not going to say, Well, you're a yellow one, so you're cool. No, sorry.
Well, I mean, wait, wait, you don't get a pass. No, I
never have, oh, man.
Even when she says about her blackness being challenged, I'm thinking to myself like, who was ever challenged? You know what I mean, like,
But mind you, I was born in 55 so I've been through maybe a few more.
So this was early on in your life, not anytime in your adult life. Well, I'm 60 now, nobody, yeah, right. They know better, yeah. So blackness. So I'm going to read a few comments from the chat, but then I just wanted to, I wanted to throw something else out there that just recently, that I recently saw in the news. So, um, stuff. Says, I have people in my family that are damn near transparent. Tachi says, Xanadu, yes, he is by biracial. I think she's referring to Kaepernick. Kaepernick, um, but we are black. Steph says, and Xanadu says, I just ain't real sure how I feel with all these representatives with white mamas, seems like it defeats the point kente says, lol. Xanadu says something about incorrect, and then so so stuff says, I think it actually enhances the point that the backdrop of race in this nation is based on the 1/8 rule, like one drop, 1% from mulatto, Octoroon, Quadroon, all of those different associations. And I think, too, you know, you know, nobody owns no one type of blackness owns blackness. It's a multitude, and it's very black experiences, right? Whether you are black, Haitian, black, Jamaican, light skin, dark skin. We all have different varieties. Like within ourselves, we are somewhat of a rainbow. Thank you for subscribing. Danny, um, so here's a link to something else recently that I saw in the news. Um, Tatiana Ali sues, Warner Brothers for stealing the show the real. And the thing about that is, like, the real to me is just like the view and the talk. So I'm not sure all of like, how they saw her idea. The only thing that I do know is that they that she said, that they that each. Person is has a very strong characteristic of the prototypes of people that she would have picked, that she pitched this idea. But all of those shows see so much of light. What you say? Tachi,
oh, I was just giving a heavy side, like I do when I'm like, What the hell. But continue,
go ahead. You
know, when we did our show with Sophia a couple of weeks ago, she referenced this. And what I think, what I think she's trying to say, this happens quite a bit where, in touchy knows, I'm sure she knows what I'm about to talk about is when you have an idea or a script or something like that, you basically start pitching. You go around and start pitching it, and what happens is, sometimes they'll buy it, you know, and you're a producer, or they buy it outright, or whatever. But then sometimes they'll say they're not interested, and they'll turn around and do it without you, without you, basically. And what she's trying to say is, when she pitched it to the people that did it, they said, Oh, we're not interested. And then they turned around and did it without
and here's the thing, I don't know what the parameters were of that type of thing. I've been in pitch sessions before, and we pitched projects. One thing that they make you do is sign a waiver. I don't know that that was the case, because, again, she's, she's been in Hollywood. It might have just been a thing. Oh, I want to have a meeting with you, because I have an idea for a show, and it went that way. It wasn't any form of process, but it happens all the time. I'm not saying it's right, but it happens all the time. And as somebody that has been in Hollywood since she Okay, let's talk about four because she was on Sesame Street. So she's been in the game for a very, very, very, yeah, Tatiana Ali was on Sesame Street, so she's been for a very long time, and she should know the game by this point. So here's the thing, there's nothing new, even when you have something that's been pitched, it's been done before. One thing that you learn when you're going out there through film school or, you know, producing, is that it's the spin that you take on it. And like you were saying, Rasheem, I don't think that the what is it, the chat, the chew, the view, the real, right? Well, the real. It's not that much different from any of the other four, four person roundtable talk shows with four women that are on there. It's not that special, and I'm not, no you know, no disrespect to them, but it's not like this was a groundbreaking idea that was clearly different, that was scripted, that you could clearly show they took this script and made their own thing. It's an idea, and you can't really copyright ideas in that sense. So I don't know what to tell her. I just think
that's the thing that makes it tough. That's the main that's the thing that makes it tough for me, in that I see so many other ones that look like that, like, if she's claiming that one like, Was she the original behind the first view? Because it's like there, right? So, and if, if not, that, that makes a hard case for me, because all of them are like alike. There's nothing that makes it uniquely stand out to me
nothing except the fact that she specifically wrote youth and diverse. Not wrote, but had youth and diversity in her idea. Apparently, if we're going off of the the model of the view the real they're all young and they're all diverse. Not one of them is white. So if you're going off of that, that's the only difference. While some of the other shows have diversity, it's not young and of color like that one is, but which I can understand may give some very different viewpoints, but it's not that different.
I wonder what Bruce Lee felt about his treatment with the Kung Fu show from the 1970s Bruce Bruce Lee was a kung fu guy, and he wrote this. I don't know if the word is pilot or treatment, or whatever the word is for a show called Kung Fu, right? Yeah, about a young, young Chinese man in the American West back in the 1870s or something. So, yes, David Carradine became the star, because when he took the treatment, or the pilot, whatever, to the to the network, they said, Nobody wants to see a Chinese, you know, actor. And so not only did they just take his show, maybe he sold it. I don't know how Hollywood works, but they took his show and put David Carradine in the lead, because there's no way. Hmm, you know.