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Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader and
this is the Silvercore Podcast.

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Silvercore  has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

00:00:17.975 --> 00:00:22.800
necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years, and

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we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

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If you enjoy the positive and educational
content we provide, please let others

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know by sharing, commenting, and
following so that you can join in on

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everything that Silvercore stands for.

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If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

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Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at Silvercore.ca

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today.

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I'm excited to have a
very interesting guest.

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This person left a fast-paced, high paying
job in the world of accounting is a TED

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Talk alumni and now kills her money.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
Podcast, Jeff Senger.

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Hey.

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Hi Travis.

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How are you doing?

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Really good.

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And what we should have done is we
should have pressed record at the

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very beginning when we're talking here
because the amount of gold that we have

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before and after a podcast is, is crazy.

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I really wish there's a way to capture
that, but you know, I guess that's

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just the nature of doing podcasts.

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I feel

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Jeff Senger: that.

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Yeah, I think we did cover some good
ground, but now we're able to share it.

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Yeah, now we were pals.

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We could just share and
chat about anything, man.

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Travis Bader: Totally.

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So I find it interesting you had
I, you kind of followed a path

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that a lot of people dream about.

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They are sitting in their cubicle,
looking out the window or driving

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into work, stuck in rush hour traffic
thinking, man, if I didn't have to

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do this, I'd be doing something else.

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And you said, Hey, I'm
making a lot of money.

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I'm working as an accountant, but
I want to do something different.

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Can you tell me about that?

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Yeah.

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Story just to kind of get things rolling.

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Jeff Senger: Well, we were in the
right place at the right time.

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Uh, we owned a home in Calgary
in the 2004 to 2006 times.

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So we were a hundred thousand heirs
for doing nothing at all other than

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existing and qualifying for credit.

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Uh, so we became a hundred
thousandaires by a fluke.

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Really?

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Um, and I said, wow, Heather, you
know, we could own a piece of land.

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Heather.

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Heather became pregnant, right?

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Like in my, okay.

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Year two or year three in
Calgary, year two and a half.

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A very repetitive monthly
schedule that made me want to

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kill myself, and I was the guy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Dark humor.

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Uh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Looking out the window of the office
tower down in Calgary, looking at the

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mountains and just wishing to be outside
and, uh, So that was the calling.

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And we, we had this in a once
in a lifetime fluke of having

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a bunch of wealth growing up.

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Uh, uh, down we, I joked, downwardly
mobile, lower middle class was

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how our both, both of us lived.

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Like things weren't great.

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Yes.

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And the older I get, I realized, yeah.

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That that wasn't normal.

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Like pizza pops and uh,
pizza pops were, dinner was.

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Anyway, uh, so Heather being
pregnant and, and, and kind

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of, uh, uh, going through that.

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And Calgary, she's a teacher.

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I'm accounting, and uh, I said, we're a
hundred thousandaires now we have equity.

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Yeah.

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And the normal thing to do was to
refinance and just get on that hamster

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wheel, uh, refinance, buy a bigger
house, refinance, use the down payment.

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Buy a bigger house.

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Buy a bigger house.

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And I said, well, we have enough
money to, to move to a very poor third

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world country and own 10 or 20 acres.

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So I was looking at
Nicaragua online, um, a lot.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, there were problems
with Nicaragua because Canadian

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education didn't prepare us to
speak, uh, hardly any languages,

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uh, other than rudimentary English.

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And, um, so, uh, I don't know, a few
months of, uh, and worrying about not,

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so not speaking Spanish, uh, the worry
of nationalization for like, so sort of

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moving to another culture would be hard.

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Spiders.

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I don't like spiders, so, so
some stroke of, uh, some miracle

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flash of, uh, brilliance.

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I said I found the very poor third world
country Heather, and that's rural Alberta.

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And she was like, uh, our
parents are in Edmonton.

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I said, so we have this kid on the way,
uh, we can move to Edmonton, or we moved

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to a, a rural area very close to Edmonton.

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Uh, within an hour of the city was
probably about one eighth the price

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of a similar house in Calgary that
was an hour from downtown, which

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was eight 86th, uh, avenue South.

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Yes.

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So it took an hour on the train to
get to my office tower downtown.

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Uh, and I'd have to step over human
feces on the platform to get to my job.

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And there were some of those
poignant moments, uh, where

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I thought, this isn't for me.

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This isn't humanity.

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We weren't designed, or
I wasn't designed mm-hmm.

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Uh, to pack into a
little, a little vessel.

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Like it was the most efficient, uh, to
not pay for parking, but just to get

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on the, on the seat, the light rail.

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Yeah.

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And I was like, this is
just, uh, this is not for me.

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So, uh, we found 20 acres on
the Pemina River, uh, I think

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circa oh oh six, I think.

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Mm-hmm.

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Or somewhere in there.

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And, uh, and we bought it with cash
and I'm like, we're retired sister.

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So my wife and I was like,
let's raise this baby.

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Let's see what raising a baby is like.

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So, um, we only had to work,
uh, a couple days a week for

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utilities and, and groceries.

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So Heather started subbing a bit
and she was flexible and, and like

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able to just pick up, uh, odd jobs.

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And I renovated, uh, the house
from, from, from scratch.

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So it was, it was a shed, but I
was like, I'd be willing to live

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in a shed if I could retire 26.

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And then, uh, that was like, kidding.

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That was 20 years ago.

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So lots has changed.

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We graduated to a full quarter section.

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I picked up some accounting work
and, uh, did a little bit of economic

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development in the town closest to our,
our quarter section farm that we live on

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now, uh, with this economic development
group just on a voluntary basis.

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And they said, well, You know, we'd
like to either, you know, attract new

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businesses and then the group said,
well, before we go ahead and try to

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attract new businesses to this town of
300 San Gudo Alberta, an hour and a half

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northwest of Edmonton, how do we retain
the businesses that are already here?

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And so we, we had a piece of
paper and, um, the secretary and

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the treasurer and the, you know,
president, and so they're writing

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down like, what business do we have?

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Uh, and one of them was a
slaughterhouse, and I'm like,

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there's a slaughterhouse in Sangudo.

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And I was like, yeah, yeah.

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So that was 13 years ago.

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And, and, um, we, there was a, there's
an old guy in his, uh, early seventies

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or late sixties, and, uh, he, it was
down to just him and, and one helper.

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Running this place, it looked
like an abandoned bottle depot.

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Uh, and I remember I was the guy
who was sort of nominated to go in

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there and say, well, how much do
you want for your slaughterhouse?

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And he said, why do you wanna buy it?

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And I said, maybe, maybe I do.

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Perhaps, right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, uh, uh, long story longer, we, uh,
created, we, uh, conventional banks

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didn't wanna finance the slaughterhouse
for an accountant to run with his, uh,

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I made a friend, a neighbor who, uh,
who had a retail retail meat cutting.

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They, they had blackout lending
policies on commercial properties

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in small towns because Right.

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I think that, uh, corporate finance
said, Uh, small towns are the, it's,

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we're we're done with small towns.

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It's over.

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That lifestyle is over,
so we're not gonna land.

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It's too much risk.

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So we ended up going through the steps
of forming, uh, an investor cooperative

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in Sangudo, the first of its kind, a
community, uh, pulling itself up by

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its own bootstraps and saying, can
we borrow from local area ranchers to

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provide financing and then, and then
keep the service in the community.

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So, uh, yeah, it was like, I remember day
one, like, this is your slaughterhouse.

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Like, so honey, we bought a zoo and,
and, uh, I, I had grown up hunting, of

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course, uh, even living in Edmonton.

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We did do hunting.

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I think that it was, it, it helped save,
uh, on the feed bill for my brother and I.

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We ate, we ate moose growing up in
north, growing up in North Edmonton.

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Dad was a big, uh, tri owning hunter.

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Yeah, so I really enjoyed the
meat cutting and wrapping.

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Uh, once per year, you know, for a
couple weeks he'd be in the bush and a

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couple of weekends you'd be cutting up
meat and I thought it was really cool.

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So, Uh, seeing the slaughterhouse for the
first time, I thought, this is insane.

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So I left my accounting job
right and, uh, I remember the

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first kill day, I was so nervous.

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I walked into a pipe and
it almost took out my eye.

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There was a, there's still a big, big
scar there, but I was walking, uh, on

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my little speed walk, like going to
move cattle from one pen to another to

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keep the surly old owner, uh, happy.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I was speed walking and didn't see
this pipe in a, in a a two and three

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quarter inch pipe, or two and seven,
eight inch piece of, uh, pipe hit, cut

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me in the eye and I kicked my shoes off.

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I hit it so hard.

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My shoes went out, like off my feet.

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I hit the ground.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's a good, yeah.

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Yeah.

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That was the first of thousands of
injuries at the slaughterhouse, learning

00:08:21.195 --> 00:08:24.195
the business and finding out how not
to shoot yourself in those things.

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So funny.

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Yeah.

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That was 13 years ago now.

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Travis Bader: So you'd never, aside from
hunting, you'd never, uh, slaughtered

00:08:33.419 --> 00:08:35.280
an animal before, had to kill an animal.

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Jeff Senger: That's not,
no, not entirely true.

00:08:37.230 --> 00:08:40.350
So I think there was sort of this
gateway livestock drug while I was

00:08:40.350 --> 00:08:43.380
working accounting in, in, in the
town or the city of white court.

00:08:43.710 --> 00:08:47.820
Uh, after we transitioned to country
living, uh, we bought a quarter section

00:08:47.825 --> 00:08:51.090
with a nice, a reasonable house, and
it had all these outbuildings and we

00:08:51.090 --> 00:08:53.310
asked the neighbors like, what were,
what are those old buildings for?

00:08:53.310 --> 00:08:55.080
Oh, that was a hog barn in the fifties.

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And that was the, the guy before
you, the family, before you

00:08:57.900 --> 00:08:58.860
had some chickens over there.

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So, um, I was working at a company in
white court and the, there was a nice,

00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:05.970
a kindly older lady there and she said,
you guys should get some chickens.

00:09:05.975 --> 00:09:08.190
You know, if you're gonna do
this farm homestead thing, you

00:09:08.190 --> 00:09:09.300
should get a couple laying hands.

00:09:09.300 --> 00:09:11.070
So we, that was the gateway drug.

00:09:11.070 --> 00:09:13.650
The gateway livestock
was laying hands hens.

00:09:13.655 --> 00:09:14.160
Okay.

00:09:14.340 --> 00:09:14.820
That's right.

00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:15.900
And so we, we knew.

00:09:16.350 --> 00:09:20.610
We knew from our experiences in, in, uh,
the Bora Forest that harvested animals,

00:09:20.610 --> 00:09:23.700
you could really control the quality
of the meat that we were putting in

00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:27.600
your freezer, uh, by the way that you
handled it, the animal that you selected.

00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:28.860
It's gender and species.

00:09:28.860 --> 00:09:30.030
All of those things mattered.

00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:32.580
Uh, how you shot it, how it
died, how you bled it, how you

00:09:32.585 --> 00:09:33.540
hung it, how long you hung it.

00:09:33.540 --> 00:09:35.230
So I kind of, I was food adjacent.

00:09:35.610 --> 00:09:39.150
And then we kind of took the plunge
into livestock and, and the eggs

00:09:39.150 --> 00:09:42.270
were better depending on what the,
how the life that the hens ran.

00:09:42.570 --> 00:09:46.410
So I encourage anyone who's curious
about how big an impact the way

00:09:46.410 --> 00:09:49.500
that the animal is treated and, and
the food is handled, like the qu

00:09:49.710 --> 00:09:50.730
affects the quality of the food.

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Well, I think, uh, gateway hens,
uh, sort of blew our minds.

00:09:55.230 --> 00:09:57.270
Uh, and then really, oh man, yeah.

00:09:57.810 --> 00:10:00.630
Um, you, you just, it's not something
kind of when food is served to you

00:10:00.635 --> 00:10:03.390
on a styrofoam tray or if you're, you
eat out a lot because you have the

00:10:03.390 --> 00:10:05.460
income to do that, uh, which we didn't.

00:10:05.520 --> 00:10:08.100
Um, then you don't think twice about it.

00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:10.920
It's just sort of this, it's monotonous
and it's something you have to do

00:10:10.920 --> 00:10:12.300
three times a day or what, whatever.

00:10:12.750 --> 00:10:13.170
Mm-hmm.

00:10:13.176 --> 00:10:15.120
More of a social thing
than really invested.

00:10:15.420 --> 00:10:18.510
But because we had this land and we
had limited entertainment options,

00:10:18.510 --> 00:10:22.590
the chickens were great, and then
we led to goats and milk goats.

00:10:22.650 --> 00:10:25.980
Uh, we had a milk cow that we
ended up having three more kids.

00:10:25.980 --> 00:10:26.250
Four.

00:10:26.250 --> 00:10:28.380
So four daughters grew up,
have grown up here on the farm.

00:10:28.830 --> 00:10:33.090
Uh, and we had a milk cow for probably
eight, eight of the last 13 years

00:10:33.095 --> 00:10:37.680
that, uh, my wife was milking twice
a day, uh, to have raw, fresh dairy.

00:10:38.130 --> 00:10:40.170
Then we had a few pigs
that I killed on farm.

00:10:40.170 --> 00:10:44.970
We had, uh, we experimented with a few
beef, uh, we killed some, a bull on farm.

00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:49.090
We had, I had a bull escape that
ran through three fences and then

00:10:49.090 --> 00:10:51.930
turned up on the neighbors six miles
away, and I had to, had to hunt.

00:10:52.260 --> 00:10:54.000
I hunted that bull and I killed them.

00:10:54.060 --> 00:10:56.670
And then we cut 'em into four pieces
to get 'em into the back of the stock

00:10:56.670 --> 00:10:58.530
trailer to, to bring them to the plant.

00:10:58.910 --> 00:10:59.400
So that, so

00:10:59.410 --> 00:11:01.890
Travis Bader: those, those bulls
have, uh, thicker skulls too.

00:11:01.895 --> 00:11:04.441
They don't, I found, uh,
22 doesn't work like.

00:11:04.755 --> 00:11:05.245
Correct.

00:11:05.475 --> 00:11:07.155
It does On a cow, on a bull.

00:11:07.155 --> 00:11:07.156
Yeah.

00:11:07.395 --> 00:11:07.575
Yeah.

00:11:07.575 --> 00:11:09.225
I learned in an interesting way.

00:11:09.405 --> 00:11:09.855
That's right.

00:11:09.855 --> 00:11:10.064
Jeff Senger: Yeah.

00:11:10.064 --> 00:11:12.495
That's, that's the story of
my life on the kill floor.

00:11:12.495 --> 00:11:12.705
Yeah.

00:11:12.705 --> 00:11:13.335
So, right.

00:11:13.635 --> 00:11:16.875
Uh, so, so yeah, so I kind of knew
about, you know, butchering our own.

00:11:16.875 --> 00:11:19.575
And we had, we had brought some animals
to the provincial slaughterhouse at

00:11:19.575 --> 00:11:23.085
Barrhead a couple times to try and
like, promote meat that we were growing

00:11:23.085 --> 00:11:26.445
on our farm and getting rid of excess
to, to, to folks, friends in the city.

00:11:26.715 --> 00:11:29.535
So we really didn't know what
we were doing, but, uh, but

00:11:29.535 --> 00:11:30.555
we knew that we liked it.

00:11:30.555 --> 00:11:33.945
We felt passionate about people,
uh, you know, eating better because

00:11:33.945 --> 00:11:35.265
we had discovered this secret.

00:11:35.270 --> 00:11:38.685
And that was that, uh, the way
an animal handled killed, uh, the

00:11:38.685 --> 00:11:41.685
sort of life that it has can make
for more flavorful, richer, more

00:11:41.915 --> 00:11:43.785
nutritious, nutritionally dense foods.

00:11:43.785 --> 00:11:45.855
So, um, so yeah, I've got a que

00:11:46.005 --> 00:11:50.655
Travis Bader: question on that one
because I, I can see how it's handled

00:11:50.655 --> 00:11:52.455
and how it's raised and what it's fed.

00:11:52.455 --> 00:11:56.385
It's gonna have a long term impact
on the flavor and the quality of the

00:11:56.385 --> 00:11:58.275
meat that you're gonna be producing.

00:11:58.725 --> 00:12:03.675
And of course, we hear about a nice quick
humane death, and so you're not releasing.

00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.130
Uh, hormones and adrenaline and
the rest into, into the body.

00:12:08.130 --> 00:12:13.410
Is there a marked difference
between a quick death and one

00:12:13.410 --> 00:12:14.790
that doesn't go as planned?

00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:17.100
Jeff Senger: Uh, yeah, it's appalling.

00:12:17.160 --> 00:12:19.110
It's actually kind of
like, really, so, yeah.

00:12:19.115 --> 00:12:22.920
Yeah, we're very interested, uh,
because we're like, we weren't,

00:12:22.920 --> 00:12:25.590
we didn't grow up in the industry,
so everything was this miracle.

00:12:25.590 --> 00:12:26.880
Like, oh, you gotta come and look at this.

00:12:27.330 --> 00:12:31.950
Uh, we had a guy bring in a bison that
he had shot, and it ran into a swamp.

00:12:32.140 --> 00:12:33.690
Uh, uh, so an on-farm kill.

00:12:33.690 --> 00:12:36.690
So this is a domestic bison that
a feller raises lots of bison,

00:12:36.695 --> 00:12:37.800
but he had a big old bull.

00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:40.470
He didn't want to, he didn't want
to, uh, load into the trailer.

00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:43.440
So, uh, he shot it in the head
probably with the, you know, he

00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.920
misjudged the car, the, the, the
skull plate over the sinuses.

00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:46.980
Yeah.

00:12:47.370 --> 00:12:49.140
Uh, or, or, you know, was slightly off.

00:12:49.140 --> 00:12:51.840
So he shot it, it didn't die,
it ran into a swamp and there it

00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:53.310
struggled in the swamp all night.

00:12:53.310 --> 00:12:55.290
And this guy tried to get
around it with a machine.

00:12:55.590 --> 00:12:56.520
So it struggled all night.

00:12:56.520 --> 00:12:59.190
And then eventually he caught up to it and
killed it, like at four in the morning.

00:12:59.190 --> 00:13:01.620
And then he hauled it to us and he
said, cut this up and make it burger.

00:13:01.620 --> 00:13:02.580
It's going in my freezer.

00:13:03.090 --> 00:13:04.590
Cause he, he couldn't have it go to waste.

00:13:04.590 --> 00:13:10.590
But there was this, uh, a disgusting,
like a bruise slime between

00:13:10.590 --> 00:13:11.730
all of the major muscle groups.

00:13:11.730 --> 00:13:13.950
So we seen butcher,
that's pretty standard.

00:13:14.010 --> 00:13:17.880
And we couldn't believe the darkness in
the meat, the, the smell of the meat,

00:13:18.090 --> 00:13:21.720
not from a rot perspective, but just from
those that that hormone release of this

00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:23.940
thing had a horrible struggling death.

00:13:24.450 --> 00:13:27.450
And that affected it, like right
through every major muscle.

00:13:27.450 --> 00:13:31.290
So it wasn't an injury, it was
just like a, a muscle, like a

00:13:31.870 --> 00:13:35.310
Yeah, just a cl a clear liquid
and a separation of the muscle.

00:13:35.310 --> 00:13:38.790
Uh, mu the main muscle groups
were separated with a slimy goop

00:13:39.030 --> 00:13:43.410
and it smelled, it had a sticky,
tacky, uh, snot to it because that

00:13:43.410 --> 00:13:44.820
animal's really, really worked up.

00:13:45.150 --> 00:13:47.760
And the only thing that's been similar
is like animals that have come in with,

00:13:47.790 --> 00:13:50.820
um, like severe pneumonia or colds.

00:13:51.330 --> 00:13:51.540
Okay.

00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.180
I mean, not colds, but severe
pneumonia or bronchitis.

00:13:54.180 --> 00:13:54.240
Yeah.

00:13:54.555 --> 00:13:55.485
Uh, they're flemmi.

00:13:55.485 --> 00:13:59.925
And sometimes you can get something like
that in the, in the meat where, um, I

00:13:59.925 --> 00:14:03.045
mean, it's not snot in the meat, it's
just that the, the muscles are unwell.

00:14:03.075 --> 00:14:03.165
Mm-hmm.

00:14:03.405 --> 00:14:04.845
They're not as oxygenated
as they should be.

00:14:04.845 --> 00:14:08.535
The animal's been hy hy,
you know, uh, it was low.

00:14:08.535 --> 00:14:12.435
Oxygen levels have created hypoxia,
and you can have muscle hypoxia.

00:14:12.439 --> 00:14:14.805
It's, it's evident inside
the, inside the carcass.

00:14:14.805 --> 00:14:17.625
But all of that being
said, very, very rare.

00:14:17.715 --> 00:14:20.955
Like we had a couple animals that
didn't die well in the knock box.

00:14:21.285 --> 00:14:22.814
Uh, good intentions.

00:14:22.845 --> 00:14:23.325
Absolutely.

00:14:23.325 --> 00:14:24.015
The knock box.

00:14:24.165 --> 00:14:24.825
Yeah, the knock box.

00:14:24.825 --> 00:14:26.265
That's, that's where they, they get shot.

00:14:26.270 --> 00:14:29.205
So there's an animal handling
and leverage, like an area

00:14:29.205 --> 00:14:30.525
that's a barn that's indoors.

00:14:30.915 --> 00:14:33.555
Um, and actually one of the
first, uh, things we renovated

00:14:33.555 --> 00:14:35.955
about the slaughterhouse, it
was kind of a 1950s style.

00:14:35.955 --> 00:14:39.375
And Kevin and I had our asses
handed to us every kill day,

00:14:39.645 --> 00:14:41.355
uh, because of square corners.

00:14:41.699 --> 00:14:47.100
Um, horse, horse panels, uh, patches and
chains, uh, deep mud in, in the outdoors.

00:14:47.250 --> 00:14:47.340
Mm-hmm.

00:14:47.341 --> 00:14:51.209
So, uh, we said, man, if we're going
to stay alive long enough to, to

00:14:51.215 --> 00:14:53.760
make a go of this business, we need
to invest in the animal handling

00:14:53.760 --> 00:14:55.170
and the, and the, and the kill box.

00:14:55.530 --> 00:14:57.329
Um, so we got a couple of grants.

00:14:57.334 --> 00:15:01.500
At the time, there were federal grant
money, uh, available to grant matching.

00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:04.590
So if you wanted to upgrade your
animal handling, you could go nuts.

00:15:04.590 --> 00:15:07.260
And so we 50, 50, 50 matching.

00:15:07.680 --> 00:15:12.090
So we built a covered barn, a heated
cement floor, and we looked at designs

00:15:12.090 --> 00:15:16.079
to, I, I read some books about,
uh, animal design and handling.

00:15:16.079 --> 00:15:19.520
There was a, a gal in the United States
that was on Oprah called Temple Grandon.

00:15:19.770 --> 00:15:24.240
She was an autistic lady who walked
through different federal, uh, commodity

00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.199
beef handling plants and pointed out
the things that irritated her because

00:15:28.199 --> 00:15:31.740
she kind of saw the world like an
animal and, or, I mean, you know, she

00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:35.640
said, and, uh, I said, uh, jokingly
that I wanted to build a plant.

00:15:36.045 --> 00:15:39.915
That Temple Grand, that Temple
Grande could be humanely know,

00:15:39.915 --> 00:15:41.655
like, so Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:41.685 --> 00:15:44.925
We wanted to make a, a plant so
humane that she would blow her mind.

00:15:44.925 --> 00:15:49.364
And so we went to a genius in the
area called, uh, Don Bamber, who is

00:15:49.369 --> 00:15:51.675
a big, uh, elk velvet specialist.

00:15:51.704 --> 00:15:52.244
Uh, okay.

00:15:52.244 --> 00:15:54.165
5, 5, 10 miles south of San Gudo.

00:15:54.265 --> 00:15:57.704
And he says, if you, if I heard you're
looking at building this plant, uh, I

00:15:57.704 --> 00:16:00.645
heard that you want to handle different
species, different sizes, all the things

00:16:00.915 --> 00:16:02.535
come and look at my elk handling system.

00:16:02.655 --> 00:16:05.775
And he had designed it because he
was some sort of artistic genius

00:16:05.775 --> 00:16:07.515
in, uh, better than Temple Grand.

00:16:07.515 --> 00:16:10.305
Now I'm like, this is better than what
Temple says in, in all of her stuff.

00:16:10.515 --> 00:16:13.665
I think that there may have been
a, a, a desire to not make the

00:16:13.814 --> 00:16:17.474
multi-billion dollar livestock
industry change much so Right.

00:16:17.474 --> 00:16:20.175
Temple Temple's like, they'll
like this if I say how to be more

00:16:20.175 --> 00:16:21.614
humane, but not so expensive.

00:16:22.155 --> 00:16:22.935
Uh, this was a.

00:16:23.479 --> 00:16:28.400
This guy in the elk, uh, is handling,
I mean handling, uh, monthly his

00:16:28.400 --> 00:16:31.969
herd of bull elk to saw their antlers
off to make elk velvet tablets.

00:16:32.030 --> 00:16:35.780
So that, that, that's the elk, the
domestic elk velvet business in Canada.

00:16:36.229 --> 00:16:36.740
Um, okay.

00:16:36.740 --> 00:16:40.640
His grow bulls out to grow great big
antlers and then cut their antlers

00:16:40.640 --> 00:16:43.969
while they're still in velvet and grind
them up for nutraceutical benefits.

00:16:44.300 --> 00:16:44.420
And

00:16:44.420 --> 00:16:45.890
Travis Bader: what, what are
the benefits you get from that?

00:16:45.890 --> 00:16:46.579
Or is, is that,

00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:48.060
Jeff Senger: Uh, mic.

00:16:48.180 --> 00:16:48.270
Mic.

00:16:49.680 --> 00:16:49.800
Yeah.

00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:51.870
Are they gas station boner pills, right?

00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:53.220
No, absolutely not.

00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:57.480
They're legitimate sources of
phosphorous, calcium, magnesium, uh,

00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:02.160
increases blood flow, uh, which is
just snicker snicker, but Right, right.

00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:05.640
So many, many medicinal and
traditional medicinal benefits.

00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:06.569
So that's all fine.

00:17:06.569 --> 00:17:07.109
And I get it.

00:17:07.109 --> 00:17:09.839
Like, and uh, I don's like, you
should get on these, they just

00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:10.800
improve your overall health.

00:17:10.800 --> 00:17:12.180
So like, I, I, yeah,

00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:13.020
Travis Bader: so that's a real thing.

00:17:13.020 --> 00:17:15.119
I always, I always thought it was okay.

00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:18.780
Increases blood flow, cuz you know, you
always hear the, the jokes about that and

00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:20.859
yeah, different cultures, cardiovascular,

00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:21.660
Jeff Senger: et cetera.

00:17:21.665 --> 00:17:22.819
So there's a lot of export market.

00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.655
So, So he was figuring out, Don and
his family were figuring out a way

00:17:26.655 --> 00:17:30.105
to build an agricultural product in
Alberta that hadn't been commodified by

00:17:30.105 --> 00:17:32.445
big money or big multinational money.

00:17:32.595 --> 00:17:33.765
And that wasn't growing beef.

00:17:33.765 --> 00:17:34.695
And it remains growing.

00:17:34.695 --> 00:17:38.475
Beef is is a difficult business,
um, because there's a couple

00:17:38.475 --> 00:17:41.805
of big players that kind of
monopolize and push everyone's

00:17:41.805 --> 00:17:43.695
small, medium, and large around.

00:17:44.115 --> 00:17:46.545
Um, so, so anyway, it, yeah.

00:17:47.025 --> 00:17:49.455
So he figured out a, a unique,
uh, product, but he had

00:17:49.455 --> 00:17:50.745
to handle a unique animal.

00:17:50.750 --> 00:17:54.525
And the most recently domesticated
North American animal are these elk.

00:17:54.525 --> 00:17:56.775
And so they can jump straight
into 10 feet, straight up.

00:17:56.775 --> 00:17:59.385
That's the thing, you know, uh,
from a standstill because they're

00:17:59.385 --> 00:18:03.705
powerful, amazing wild animals, and
they, they haven't been bred for

00:18:03.825 --> 00:18:06.915
hundreds or even thousands of years,
like cattle have to grow quick.

00:18:07.515 --> 00:18:10.605
So they still have a brain
between their ears, uh, cattle.

00:18:11.205 --> 00:18:19.725
It's imagine if you br if you br just,
uh, low iq, low iq, uh, bodybuilders

00:18:19.730 --> 00:18:21.375
to more low IQ bodybuilders.

00:18:21.375 --> 00:18:24.395
So passive and complacent
bodybuilders that are mm-hmm.

00:18:24.655 --> 00:18:26.445
Uh, to for a thousand years.

00:18:26.965 --> 00:18:27.315
Right.

00:18:27.615 --> 00:18:31.125
Uh, cow cows aren't, don't have an
awareness the way that definitely elk

00:18:31.125 --> 00:18:35.325
do after having killed, uh, thousands
of animals at the slaughterhouse

00:18:35.325 --> 00:18:36.945
over 13 years of owning it.

00:18:37.275 --> 00:18:38.355
Um, some animals.

00:18:38.355 --> 00:18:38.595
Yeah.

00:18:38.625 --> 00:18:39.015
Oh yeah.

00:18:39.285 --> 00:18:42.645
Uh, Razorback boars, uh, recently
imported from Siberia for hunting

00:18:42.645 --> 00:18:46.715
ranches and for, uh, novelty meat or
exotic meat markets, uh, in Alberta.

00:18:47.415 --> 00:18:51.105
And, and, and, you know, um, have
escaped into the wild and then

00:18:51.105 --> 00:18:52.545
have created this bounty have hunt.

00:18:52.545 --> 00:18:55.515
I've hunted them on bounty and
collected bounty on wild bores.

00:18:55.785 --> 00:18:57.435
Uh, but they will look
you right in the eye.

00:18:57.585 --> 00:18:59.355
Domestic pigs don't look you in the eye.

00:18:59.955 --> 00:19:02.295
Uh, but wild bores will look you right
in the eye and they'll challenge you.

00:19:02.295 --> 00:19:03.405
They'll square off and face.

00:19:03.495 --> 00:19:04.665
They'll face off cuz they've been.

00:19:05.010 --> 00:19:10.230
They've been, uh, prey recently enough
in their evolutionary history that

00:19:10.230 --> 00:19:13.560
they have a memory about to be afraid
and to think about what's going on.

00:19:13.560 --> 00:19:17.100
Think about their mortality of
smidge interesting, uh, domestic pigs

00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:18.450
and domestic cattle, not so much.

00:19:18.450 --> 00:19:19.740
Pigs are definitely smarter.

00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:21.510
Uh, but ca an opportu.

00:19:21.515 --> 00:19:21.930
I've, I've seen that.

00:19:22.050 --> 00:19:22.380
Yeah.

00:19:22.470 --> 00:19:25.830
And opp opportunistic and a and
a bit like appalling, like orks

00:19:25.830 --> 00:19:27.180
from Toks Lord of the Rings.

00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:29.040
Like they, they really got it.

00:19:29.070 --> 00:19:32.100
If they could characterize hu
like humanoid characteristics

00:19:32.100 --> 00:19:34.890
and u using Anyway, uh, well

00:19:34.890 --> 00:19:40.140
Travis Bader: I got, so I, I got a
question about the, um, I, I don't

00:19:40.145 --> 00:19:42.160
know if I should tell this story,
but I'm gonna tell it anyways.

00:19:43.110 --> 00:19:47.430
Uh, I started doing the basic
firearm safety course in Canada

00:19:47.430 --> 00:19:48.510
while I was in high school.

00:19:48.510 --> 00:19:50.580
I was about 1994 when I started that.

00:19:51.210 --> 00:19:52.620
Graduated in 96.

00:19:53.130 --> 00:19:58.350
And somewhere in my late teens,
maybe early twenties, got a

00:19:58.350 --> 00:20:00.421
fellow who says, Hey, I'd like to.

00:20:01.515 --> 00:20:02.625
I'd like to take the course.

00:20:02.715 --> 00:20:04.455
I said, well, we've got a
course coming up this weekend.

00:20:04.455 --> 00:20:05.055
You're in luck.

00:20:05.325 --> 00:20:06.045
He says, perfect.

00:20:06.045 --> 00:20:07.995
Cause I need a gun for
the following weekend.

00:20:08.475 --> 00:20:09.855
I said, well, it doesn't work like that.

00:20:09.885 --> 00:20:12.735
Mandatory minimum waiting
periods and all the rest, right.

00:20:13.335 --> 00:20:15.765
Anyways, he says, okay,
let me figure this out.

00:20:15.765 --> 00:20:17.265
Calls back, says, I got it.

00:20:17.265 --> 00:20:19.675
I'll take the course, I'll bring
a few of my friends through

00:20:20.025 --> 00:20:21.165
so you can see what I'm like.

00:20:21.165 --> 00:20:25.185
You can see my associates and you see
I'm a good person and you can lend me one

00:20:25.185 --> 00:20:27.195
of your firearms for the next weekend.

00:20:27.705 --> 00:20:28.785
I'm like, no, sorry.

00:20:28.790 --> 00:20:29.865
It doesn't work like that.

00:20:30.345 --> 00:20:32.625
I said, what do you need
a firearm for so badly?

00:20:32.625 --> 00:20:34.365
He says, well, my
brother's coming in town.

00:20:34.755 --> 00:20:35.985
Okay, this doesn't sound good.

00:20:35.985 --> 00:20:36.285
Right?

00:20:36.495 --> 00:20:36.795
Yeah.

00:20:36.915 --> 00:20:43.665
Well, turns out, uh, they had started
a small farm and his brother was coming

00:20:43.665 --> 00:20:47.115
in town and previously they just had
goats and they could slaughter them

00:20:47.115 --> 00:20:51.615
themselves, but they had just purchased
two cows and they wanted to be able

00:20:51.620 --> 00:20:54.226
to humanly slaughter these cows and.

00:20:54.840 --> 00:20:58.770
He says, well, can you come on
my farm and shoot my cows for me?

00:20:59.310 --> 00:21:01.290
I said, well, I've
never shot a cow before.

00:21:01.290 --> 00:21:01.590
Right.

00:21:01.590 --> 00:21:04.140
You know, I've, but sure.

00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:04.740
I guess.

00:21:04.770 --> 00:21:05.220
Okay.

00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:07.620
You know, out of all the options
here, this is gonna be one that

00:21:07.620 --> 00:21:11.670
can assist you and help you out
and the least illegal, right?

00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:12.210
Yes.

00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:12.900
Yep.

00:21:13.270 --> 00:21:13.900
Least illegal.

00:21:13.900 --> 00:21:15.270
That's a good way of putting it.

00:21:15.270 --> 00:21:15.720
That's good.

00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:15.810
Yeah.

00:21:15.840 --> 00:21:19.620
Um, so I go onto his property
and it was a small property.

00:21:19.620 --> 00:21:20.640
It was a small farm.

00:21:21.345 --> 00:21:22.815
Probably shouldn't say where it was.

00:21:22.815 --> 00:21:22.935
Mm-hmm.

00:21:23.175 --> 00:21:24.165
It's not around anymore.

00:21:24.915 --> 00:21:29.235
And, uh, Filipino community,
I was six foot, six white guy

00:21:29.235 --> 00:21:33.615
towering over everybody else, and
they'd already butchered a goat.

00:21:33.620 --> 00:21:36.044
They had it on the ground and I
thought they were cooking the hair

00:21:36.044 --> 00:21:37.815
off of it with a, uh, roofing torch.

00:21:37.820 --> 00:21:38.205
But yeah.

00:21:38.445 --> 00:21:39.885
Uh, they said they're, they're cooking it.

00:21:39.955 --> 00:21:41.685
They're just gonna cook it like that.

00:21:41.685 --> 00:21:43.155
And it was so, okay.

00:21:43.155 --> 00:21:43.845
Interesting.

00:21:43.875 --> 00:21:44.115
Right.

00:21:44.115 --> 00:21:45.945
Never eaten goat like that before.

00:21:46.635 --> 00:21:49.034
And I said, okay, well, let's
see if we can get these cows.

00:21:49.034 --> 00:21:54.105
And I got a little, uh, martini
action, uh, BSA cadet 22.

00:21:54.105 --> 00:21:55.575
It's aperture sites.

00:21:55.575 --> 00:21:59.475
And, and, uh, these cows
still had their horns.

00:21:59.804 --> 00:22:04.965
They weren't chopped and lied off
and, and, uh, kind of wildish animals

00:22:04.965 --> 00:22:07.034
and kept running after these fellows.

00:22:07.040 --> 00:22:08.625
And, and so finally said, okay.

00:22:08.655 --> 00:22:09.014
Okay.

00:22:09.945 --> 00:22:13.725
If we can't get them to be still,
let's just calm 'em down and I'll,

00:22:14.325 --> 00:22:15.705
I, I think I know where to shoot it.

00:22:15.825 --> 00:22:21.135
I mean, at, at my cabin we had a cow skull
hanging on the wall that had been shot by

00:22:21.135 --> 00:22:27.135
some rancher years and years ago and I, I
knew where that 22 hole was, but the skull

00:22:27.135 --> 00:22:30.254
is very different from the cow's head.

00:22:30.254 --> 00:22:30.315
Yeah.

00:22:30.315 --> 00:22:30.585
When it's

00:22:30.585 --> 00:22:31.245
Jeff Senger: got hair on it.

00:22:31.245 --> 00:22:31.485
Yeah.

00:22:31.490 --> 00:22:31.645
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:22:31.875 --> 00:22:36.705
Anyways, so I get it lined up in Snap
Merr thing goes running off, ah, I'm

00:22:36.705 --> 00:22:40.905
feeling kind of bad right and get
back up to it and mo closest I could

00:22:40.905 --> 00:22:42.945
get to it is about 50 yards or so.

00:22:43.514 --> 00:22:45.405
Snap merr running off.

00:22:45.405 --> 00:22:49.754
Did this a few times till I finally
figured out where that sweet spot was.

00:22:50.055 --> 00:22:52.785
Second cow went down, like it
was on roller skate, so it was

00:22:52.785 --> 00:22:55.274
dead before it hit the ground
because I knew where to shoot it.

00:22:55.274 --> 00:22:59.085
But I mean, the first one I was feeling
really bad for this thing because I was

00:22:59.090 --> 00:23:02.415
expecting a quick humane death and I
thought I knew where I was shooting it.

00:23:02.774 --> 00:23:05.085
I guess my question is gonna
be twofold, number one.

00:23:05.895 --> 00:23:08.024
Um, how much different.

00:23:08.565 --> 00:23:11.265
Would that cow taste the meat on that one?

00:23:11.265 --> 00:23:14.715
That took a while to find the
sweet spot to the one that went

00:23:14.715 --> 00:23:16.155
down, like was on roller skates.

00:23:16.215 --> 00:23:21.075
And if we were to apply that to, let's
say, the hunting world, how much different

00:23:21.105 --> 00:23:26.995
is a quick humane harvest of a, uh,
of an ungulate, let's say, gonna taste

00:23:27.065 --> 00:23:28.726
than maybe one that's been gut shot?

00:23:28.731 --> 00:23:33.795
Shot and he had to track it down for maybe
it ends up dying an hour later, let's say.

00:23:33.885 --> 00:23:34.095
Jeff Senger: Yeah.

00:23:35.055 --> 00:23:38.145
Oh, that's a great, uh, that's a
great scenario and a really good, uh,

00:23:38.175 --> 00:23:39.825
buildup and question and a fun story.

00:23:39.885 --> 00:23:43.485
Uh, not a fun story for the cow, but
a learning story about a young man

00:23:43.485 --> 00:23:48.015
figuring out how to, so you have your
morals intact and you have your, you

00:23:48.015 --> 00:23:51.405
know, your ethics intact, and sometimes
things don't go the way that you plant.

00:23:51.435 --> 00:23:55.005
And that happens to experi me
with 13 years on the kill floor.

00:23:55.305 --> 00:23:59.565
Um, sometimes I guess wrong or at the
last moment, even with a knock box.

00:23:59.835 --> 00:24:02.295
Um, they'll, they'll turn their
head suddenly and you know,

00:24:02.300 --> 00:24:03.075
like, everything's going fine.

00:24:03.375 --> 00:24:03.465
Mm-hmm.

00:24:03.735 --> 00:24:04.955
We really worked hard in building a calm.

00:24:05.669 --> 00:24:07.979
Serene environment for them
to move up into the knock box.

00:24:07.979 --> 00:24:11.669
But, um, you have some, some animals
that, uh, they were just born to

00:24:11.669 --> 00:24:14.489
hate and there's some that, that
are, are man hunters and are, and

00:24:14.489 --> 00:24:15.750
really want to fight everything.

00:24:15.750 --> 00:24:18.449
So it, it gets 'em hard to
hard, you know, hard to, to

00:24:18.449 --> 00:24:19.560
hold them, have them hold still.

00:24:19.830 --> 00:24:20.790
Uh, they're huge animals.

00:24:20.790 --> 00:24:23.489
So, uh, the correct caliber
is important in the correct

00:24:23.489 --> 00:24:24.810
placement is very important also.

00:24:25.050 --> 00:24:29.489
Um, and my answer is kind of uninteresting
in that, uh, not a huge difference,

00:24:29.550 --> 00:24:33.239
uh, not a huge difference from, from
the one to like, you know, if it, if

00:24:33.239 --> 00:24:36.030
it runs around and it's 10 minutes
later and you finally hit the, like,

00:24:36.030 --> 00:24:40.709
press the button and then powers down,
um, that makes less of a difference.

00:24:40.739 --> 00:24:43.470
So, I don't know that your
palate could discern a difference

00:24:43.470 --> 00:24:44.610
in taste between the two.

00:24:44.879 --> 00:24:47.310
There might be a little more
toughness in the animal that ran.

00:24:47.399 --> 00:24:49.830
The more it runs the, the more
toughness that you'll have.

00:24:49.830 --> 00:24:53.700
Lactic, lactic acid and, and,
and adrenaline in, in the meat.

00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:57.720
But it wouldn't be like, oh man, this
is, this is totally off where you

00:24:57.725 --> 00:24:59.389
would have meat that was totally off.

00:24:59.450 --> 00:25:01.770
And this like, it's
kind of more surprising.

00:25:01.770 --> 00:25:04.710
Kevin and I talked about this,
uh, in from the wild episodes with

00:25:04.710 --> 00:25:06.689
our wild game harvesting a lot.

00:25:06.870 --> 00:25:06.960
Mm-hmm.

00:25:07.350 --> 00:25:11.580
Um, would be how quickly after
it's dead that it gets bled and how

00:25:11.585 --> 00:25:13.110
completely you bleed the animal.

00:25:13.565 --> 00:25:13.895
Really.

00:25:13.895 --> 00:25:15.035
So, yeah, absolutely.

00:25:15.035 --> 00:25:21.275
So this even applies to fish, which is,
which it was a huge, uh, I mean, for us,

00:25:21.335 --> 00:25:22.595
you know, for us it was a huge big deal.

00:25:22.595 --> 00:25:26.825
People that, that are obsessive compulsive
about the, the handling of their meat.

00:25:27.185 --> 00:25:31.295
Uh, we sat around a ice fishing
tent saying, well, why wouldn't,

00:25:31.300 --> 00:25:32.405
like, did your dad bleed fish?

00:25:32.825 --> 00:25:33.215
No.

00:25:33.215 --> 00:25:34.655
Did your dad dad bleed fish?

00:25:34.655 --> 00:25:36.455
We talked to some people on the
West coast and they're like, yeah,

00:25:36.455 --> 00:25:39.455
for commercial salmon fishery,
they always bleed the fish.

00:25:39.755 --> 00:25:42.935
Uh, right, or they're flash frozen
and, but, but, uh, but I think

00:25:42.935 --> 00:25:45.695
they're, anyway, certain, certain
boats bleed them and certain don't.

00:25:45.695 --> 00:25:49.265
But, uh, we started bleeding our jack,
our pike, our northern pike here that are

00:25:49.270 --> 00:25:55.235
sometimes, uh, not great tasting fish, uh,
and slew tasting and definitely dumping

00:25:55.235 --> 00:25:58.535
the blott of them, uh, just like you
would with cattle or pigs or whatever.

00:25:58.535 --> 00:26:01.235
It makes a, a significant
improvement in shelf life.

00:26:01.625 --> 00:26:05.525
Uh, it takes the funkiness or a
dan out of the meat, uh, improved

00:26:05.525 --> 00:26:08.365
shelf life and, and, and is an
overall better quality product.

00:26:08.875 --> 00:26:12.335
Less, less minerally taste, less both.

00:26:12.689 --> 00:26:13.439
Bull taste.

00:26:13.919 --> 00:26:18.719
So a male animal, uh, a male animal
in Rotch, uh, whether it's a deer or

00:26:18.719 --> 00:26:24.780
a bovine, uh, has, is way more heavily
built, uh, more connective tissue in

00:26:24.780 --> 00:26:28.830
its muscle, in its hide in its guts,
pulling at the guts out of an old bull.

00:26:29.189 --> 00:26:32.760
Um, I have to hang from its kidneys
to, to, to yank the, the kidneys out,

00:26:33.090 --> 00:26:37.290
whereas a young heifer or a steer, so a
young female animal or a steer would be

00:26:37.300 --> 00:26:41.899
a, a male animal born with its testicles
clipped, uh, mm-hmm two days after birth.

00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.990
Uh, those animals are built very, they're,
they're really easy to pull apart.

00:26:45.990 --> 00:26:49.540
They're tender all the way through
light hides, uh, less connective

00:26:49.540 --> 00:26:52.800
tissue and light, but something in
the field that all hunters should

00:26:52.800 --> 00:26:54.540
do is to, to bleed the animal.

00:26:54.600 --> 00:26:57.659
And it was funny because I'd, you know,
doing two kill days a week, I'm on the

00:26:57.659 --> 00:27:00.240
kill floor all the time, and then Kevin
and I zip away, uh, hunting buddy, and

00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.899
I zip away and do a hunting adventure,
uh, this time with archery tackle.

00:27:04.350 --> 00:27:05.610
Is this Costo any you're talking about?

00:27:05.610 --> 00:27:09.480
This is Kevin, Kevin Coston from the
Wild creator, filmmaker extraordinaire.

00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:10.530
Travis Bader: I love Kevin.

00:27:10.530 --> 00:27:11.260
He's amazing.

00:27:11.730 --> 00:27:12.030
Jeff Senger: Yeah.

00:27:12.030 --> 00:27:15.150
We spent way too much time together
over eight years of filming.

00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:18.990
We went on 10 or 12 hunting trips for
three days every year for eight years.

00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:21.000
Um, so it was my second home.

00:27:21.005 --> 00:27:24.060
My second, uh, spouse was, is Kevin Cowan.

00:27:24.390 --> 00:27:24.660
Yeah.

00:27:24.990 --> 00:27:27.690
I took a step back a little
bit building the, the retail,

00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:29.310
uh, meat shop in Edmonton.

00:27:29.310 --> 00:27:31.560
And he's got just an
amazing, he's continuing.

00:27:31.565 --> 00:27:34.110
He, he hasn't missed a beat,
uh, 10 episodes a year.

00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:35.760
Um, so amazing outdoors man.

00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:39.240
But, but we talked about bleeding
fish and, um, we're on this hunt and

00:27:39.245 --> 00:27:41.940
we get an arrow into a mule deer,
and it doesn't die immediately.

00:27:42.360 --> 00:27:45.120
And we track it down, chase
it down, and then get another

00:27:45.125 --> 00:27:46.110
air into it and it's dead.

00:27:46.530 --> 00:27:49.800
And by, like I was in a auto
mode, I ran up to the animal and

00:27:49.800 --> 00:27:51.000
grabbed it and then, and bled it.

00:27:51.005 --> 00:27:53.880
The, the quick way, which was like
from, you know, from ear to ear.

00:27:53.885 --> 00:27:54.060
Yeah.

00:27:54.060 --> 00:27:56.040
And then I, I bled it the business way.

00:27:56.100 --> 00:28:00.100
Uh, that's reaching your knife along the
trachea, down into the collarbones and

00:28:00.360 --> 00:28:02.250
snrp righting the, uh, cardiac aorta.

00:28:02.639 --> 00:28:04.410
Uh, and he had no more blood pressure.

00:28:04.410 --> 00:28:08.639
The blood had left through the wound, you
know, but Kev, Kevin's dad, who's in his

00:28:08.639 --> 00:28:10.379
sixties, he's like, what the hell is that?

00:28:10.410 --> 00:28:12.210
What is your friend
doing to that poor deer?

00:28:12.540 --> 00:28:15.300
And then I was like, oh, I
was just bleeding it like I,

00:28:15.360 --> 00:28:16.830
I lapsed into kill floor mode.

00:28:16.835 --> 00:28:18.060
Like we have to bleed this animal.

00:28:18.360 --> 00:28:18.800
Um, right.

00:28:19.260 --> 00:28:21.160
Kevin laughed because it's
become practice for us.

00:28:21.620 --> 00:28:24.810
Uh, if the wound, if you shoot in the
heart and lungs, it's gonna bleed, uh,

00:28:24.810 --> 00:28:26.340
with a rifle, they tend to bleed out.

00:28:26.340 --> 00:28:28.080
They're filled with, uh, red jelly.

00:28:28.560 --> 00:28:31.139
Um, so they do bleed out in the
cavity and it's a, it's a really

00:28:31.139 --> 00:28:32.320
quick death, but, uh mm-hmm.

00:28:32.520 --> 00:28:36.389
If for any reason, uh, you don't open
a humongous wound channel, uh, if you

00:28:36.395 --> 00:28:39.271
want to maintain the integrity of the
meat, then bleed the animal as soon as

00:28:39.910 --> 00:28:41.820
ideally while the heart is still beating.

00:28:41.820 --> 00:28:43.770
And that sounds vulgar to even hunters.

00:28:44.070 --> 00:28:46.770
Generally, that's tough to get
up to an animal that you've shot.

00:28:47.100 --> 00:28:50.940
Um, you're usually at some kind of range
or you have to mitigate some sorts of

00:28:50.945 --> 00:28:54.450
obstacles and get through trees or,
or rough terrain to get to an animal.

00:28:54.450 --> 00:28:57.540
But ideally on the kill floor,
and this isn't, I'm didn't invent

00:28:57.540 --> 00:29:00.389
this, this is very much part of
the craft and the art of butcher.

00:29:00.929 --> 00:29:04.290
That's that use, uh, the, the heart's
beating for two to two to five

00:29:04.290 --> 00:29:06.750
minutes after, uh, it's brain dead.

00:29:07.110 --> 00:29:10.620
And that's the pump that, that,
that the grand mal seizures and the,

00:29:10.620 --> 00:29:12.990
and the heart pumping is what dumps
all the blood out onto the floor.

00:29:12.990 --> 00:29:14.669
And it, it, it just makes a better quality

00:29:14.675 --> 00:29:14.909
Travis Bader: meat.

00:29:15.270 --> 00:29:19.649
So somebody has, let's say a neck
shot or now I'm never been a fan of

00:29:19.655 --> 00:29:24.750
head shots, but let's say somebody
did a headshot on an animal, um, and

00:29:24.750 --> 00:29:25.980
they're able to get over to quickly.

00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:30.480
They better be bleeding that, that
wild game if they want to have

00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:31.980
the integrity of the meat intact.

00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:32.250
Abs.

00:29:32.280 --> 00:29:32.520
Yeah.

00:29:32.520 --> 00:29:33.899
Jeff Senger: That was the,
the condition there is.

00:29:33.899 --> 00:29:34.050
Yeah.

00:29:34.050 --> 00:29:37.350
A lot of hunters give zero shits about
the integrity of the meat or it's

00:29:37.350 --> 00:29:38.370
all gonna be turned into pepperoni.

00:29:38.649 --> 00:29:40.710
I, I ain't never done that before anyway.

00:29:40.950 --> 00:29:44.189
And it's so spice, it's so sugared
and, and salted and spiced.

00:29:44.189 --> 00:29:47.700
Uh, you don't really get any essence of
the game animal any, or mixed with so

00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:48.990
much pork that it doesn't really matter.

00:29:48.990 --> 00:29:54.270
But for, for, for people that want to
eat, say a, a whitetail steak and you want

00:29:54.274 --> 00:29:58.695
to reduce gaminess, you want to reduce
any kind of, Uh, readiness or reduce

00:29:58.695 --> 00:30:02.895
readiness or reduce anything that's foul
or unpleasant and definitely bleeding it.

00:30:03.075 --> 00:30:05.535
I mean, obviously shooting it in
a quick kill is everyone's goal.

00:30:05.535 --> 00:30:05.625
Mm-hmm.

00:30:05.895 --> 00:30:09.045
But I think that matters, that matters,
makes less difference to meet quality

00:30:09.045 --> 00:30:12.945
than if you, uh, if you remember to
bleed it or if just the nature of the

00:30:12.950 --> 00:30:16.815
wound channel and through heart and
lungs, that's a, pretty much every drop

00:30:16.815 --> 00:30:20.265
of blood is out of the animal before
you get to it, even especially a pastor.

00:30:20.270 --> 00:30:23.475
Travis Bader: So, so just, you mentioned
there about Gaminess and that's been

00:30:23.475 --> 00:30:29.295
the ongoing debate with hunters for,
for eons of what causes gaminess.

00:30:29.295 --> 00:30:35.355
Do you have an idea, given your profession
and the amount of time that you've spent

00:30:35.355 --> 00:30:38.955
with meat, that you'd probably have a
decent idea of where that gaminess comes

00:30:38.955 --> 00:30:39.165
Jeff Senger: from?

00:30:39.225 --> 00:30:39.885
Yeah.

00:30:39.885 --> 00:30:42.765
I really, really know exactly
where Gaminess comes from.

00:30:43.065 --> 00:30:46.755
Listen to this commercial just after
this commercial break, you know,

00:30:47.385 --> 00:30:49.185
that's a little sizzle reel there.

00:30:49.185 --> 00:30:51.405
But yeah, the scissor reel is man.

00:30:51.435 --> 00:30:54.525
Um, so, uh, hunters.

00:30:55.004 --> 00:30:57.555
Overage wild game meat.

00:30:57.825 --> 00:31:01.004
Uh, they're doing the right thing
kind of for the wrong reasons.

00:31:01.004 --> 00:31:01.595
So they, okay.

00:31:01.595 --> 00:31:04.335
They have an inkling that they
go to a steakhouse that they love

00:31:04.335 --> 00:31:07.125
and they pay a hundred dollars
for a delicious, uh, beef steak.

00:31:07.125 --> 00:31:09.615
And they say, wow, that was 28
aged, or something like that.

00:31:10.034 --> 00:31:11.595
And so they say, well, I killed my dad's.

00:31:11.595 --> 00:31:12.675
Like, I killed the bull moose.

00:31:12.675 --> 00:31:13.815
I'm gonna hang it in my garage.

00:31:13.815 --> 00:31:15.165
It's reasonably cool in there.

00:31:15.165 --> 00:31:18.254
And this is, that's a, uh, yeah, yeah.

00:31:18.524 --> 00:31:19.125
Spoiler alert.

00:31:19.125 --> 00:31:19.185
Yeah.

00:31:19.215 --> 00:31:20.955
Uh, it's reasonably cool in my garage.

00:31:20.955 --> 00:31:24.014
I'm gonna hang it for a month and
then that bowl will be tender.

00:31:24.585 --> 00:31:24.675
Mm-hmm.

00:31:24.915 --> 00:31:27.615
Now, dry aging is a com
It's, it's a nuancey thing.

00:31:27.615 --> 00:31:28.425
It's not that complex.

00:31:28.425 --> 00:31:29.715
There's two or three things to remember.

00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:35.475
One is that if the animal has sufficient
fat cover, then the animal hanging, uh,

00:31:35.475 --> 00:31:41.055
enzymatic activity makes the muscles
more tender through enzymatic rotting.

00:31:41.085 --> 00:31:42.105
And that's a vulgar term.

00:31:42.110 --> 00:31:42.165
Yeah.

00:31:42.165 --> 00:31:45.855
But it's enzymatic, enzymatic
breakdown of the, uh, fibrous

00:31:45.860 --> 00:31:47.715
muscle fiber inside the animal.

00:31:47.805 --> 00:31:50.805
Uh, it breaks down with time
when it hangs on the rail at

00:31:50.935 --> 00:31:52.485
two to four degrees Celsius.

00:31:53.475 --> 00:31:59.525
Um, Now if that animal is covered in fat,
that is, it's in a wetsuit, like a seal.

00:31:59.530 --> 00:31:59.545
Mm-hmm.

00:31:59.625 --> 00:32:01.235
Or a person, a diving suit.

00:32:01.415 --> 00:32:03.155
It has fat on every covered surface.

00:32:03.155 --> 00:32:07.475
Like we talk about 95 to 98%
coverage on a full finished fat beef.

00:32:08.015 --> 00:32:11.705
Uh, whereas a bull moose would
have two to 6% fat coverage.

00:32:11.710 --> 00:32:11.825
Mm-hmm.

00:32:12.085 --> 00:32:17.165
Um, the, the, the, the animal without
fat coverage like it's, is losing

00:32:17.165 --> 00:32:21.545
moisture kind of at a faster rate,
depending on temperature and the,

00:32:21.545 --> 00:32:23.615
and the humidity inside your cooler.

00:32:23.825 --> 00:32:27.515
It's losing moisture at a rate
that is stripping the meat quality

00:32:27.515 --> 00:32:30.785
characteristics away from, it's getting
more tender, but it's getting drier.

00:32:31.075 --> 00:32:31.425
Right.

00:32:31.955 --> 00:32:35.585
It's, it's concentrating that flavor
by losing water out of your moose hip.

00:32:36.005 --> 00:32:39.665
Uh, it's losing water concentrating
flavor of a bull moose,

00:32:39.845 --> 00:32:41.345
which is often the gaminess.

00:32:41.435 --> 00:32:41.525
Mm-hmm.

00:32:41.645 --> 00:32:43.565
And it's getting more tender,
but it's losing water.

00:32:43.565 --> 00:32:44.885
So you're trading one for the other.

00:32:44.885 --> 00:32:47.135
You should just cut it as soon
as it's rigor mortis and cold.

00:32:47.645 --> 00:32:48.335
So cut it.

00:32:48.335 --> 00:32:51.845
Game animal that's not covered
in fat once immediately.

00:32:51.845 --> 00:32:52.625
Once it's cold.

00:32:53.129 --> 00:32:54.990
Uh, that's a way to reduce gaminess.

00:32:55.050 --> 00:32:55.830
So bleed it.

00:32:55.919 --> 00:32:56.280
Interesting.

00:32:56.280 --> 00:32:59.639
And then hang it for, uh, I mean
overnight at the, at, you know, in

00:32:59.639 --> 00:33:02.639
the negative temperatures here in
Alberta, uh, pretty easy to get.

00:33:02.639 --> 00:33:05.370
And I would, I would cut it once
it's cold, uh, through to the bone.

00:33:05.550 --> 00:33:07.919
So in a day or two, you're
not getting anything.

00:33:07.919 --> 00:33:08.040
Awesome.

00:33:08.129 --> 00:33:10.050
If you're hanging it for
two weeks, you're, you're

00:33:10.050 --> 00:33:10.960
getting, except for gaminess.

00:33:11.260 --> 00:33:13.320
So again, you're trading
tenderness for juiciness.

00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:17.280
So if I have a big old fat pig, they, in
the traditional way, we would scald pigs.

00:33:17.340 --> 00:33:19.590
That's, you just deha them
and they keep their hide on.

00:33:19.770 --> 00:33:23.100
And then a pig has a jacket
of fat under every on.

00:33:23.250 --> 00:33:25.830
Oh, covering every joint
is now fat and skin.

00:33:25.889 --> 00:33:27.810
When you, when you just
scald and scrape them.

00:33:28.139 --> 00:33:29.280
Um, we've aged some pigs.

00:33:29.669 --> 00:33:34.200
It's a great success because it's
maintaining every speck of water inside

00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:35.850
that waxy jacket that he's wearing.

00:33:36.060 --> 00:33:36.149
Mm-hmm.

00:33:36.389 --> 00:33:39.090
And then, then, then enzymatic
activity is making it more tender.

00:33:39.330 --> 00:33:43.110
So if you want an an in, this is another
tip for an insane meat experience.

00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:47.220
Uh, go to a traditional artisanal butcher
that is able to bring inside the pork and

00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:51.240
see if you can get some dry-aged pork, uh,
because they can go an extremely long time

00:33:51.245 --> 00:33:54.900
on the rail, uh, drying in a cooler, not
drying in a cooler, they're staying wet

00:33:54.905 --> 00:33:58.170
on the inside, but they're enzymatically
breaking down so they're more tender.

00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:01.171
And then, then that, that also
applies to very, very fat beef.

00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:05.700
And we kill everything from lean, lean,
beef and wild game on, on the wind end,

00:34:05.910 --> 00:34:09.510
end of the spectrum, or elk or bi domestic
elk, domestic bison, um, all the way

00:34:09.510 --> 00:34:14.460
to Wagyu cross beef that have sometimes
three or four inches of back fat, rib

00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:18.360
fat, and a hundred percent coverage
of, of maybe three quarters to one inch

00:34:18.365 --> 00:34:19.780
of fat over their entire hip section.

00:34:20.130 --> 00:34:20.821
They're shanks are fat.

00:34:21.614 --> 00:34:23.594
They're so fat that they
have fat in their eyelids.

00:34:23.834 --> 00:34:25.274
If they're, if you sh yeah.

00:34:26.084 --> 00:34:27.014
You know it's fat.

00:34:27.105 --> 00:34:28.424
You know it's fat when it hits the ground.

00:34:28.429 --> 00:34:32.054
You and Obama, so fat, when that
beef hits, it hits the ground and

00:34:32.054 --> 00:34:35.054
its shoulders so fat that it heads
its head, doesn't touch the floor.

00:34:35.114 --> 00:34:37.245
Then you're like, this one's gonna,
this one's gonna grade prime.

00:34:37.574 --> 00:34:38.355
We can guess this.

00:34:38.355 --> 00:34:38.625
Yeah.

00:34:38.654 --> 00:34:42.435
Anyway, so those guys have, so
those, those units, those animals

00:34:42.435 --> 00:34:44.685
have so much fat on them that
they're not losing any water.

00:34:44.685 --> 00:34:48.134
So we can put a hundred days on the
cooler in them and they'll still be just

00:34:48.134 --> 00:34:53.444
as ju or not just as juicy, but they'll
be, uh, maybe three or 4% water loss.

00:34:54.105 --> 00:34:55.815
Because you're in that waxy jacket of fat.

00:34:56.475 --> 00:35:00.495
If you wanted to age your bull,
your fricking 48 inch bull moose,

00:35:00.495 --> 00:35:04.875
12 year old bull moose, uh, uh, to
get some of that, uh, tenderizing,

00:35:05.355 --> 00:35:07.185
I would primal the muscle group.

00:35:07.214 --> 00:35:10.424
So I would butcher the animal, pull the,
the muscle group that you want to age

00:35:10.424 --> 00:35:12.884
off and then cover it in a dry age bag.

00:35:12.884 --> 00:35:14.895
They sell those commercial,
I don't think they're cheap.

00:35:15.435 --> 00:35:18.795
Uh, so it's kind of like a semi-permeable
membrane that you can buy it.

00:35:18.795 --> 00:35:21.194
They're, they're promoted
in, in hunting stores.

00:35:21.555 --> 00:35:25.485
Um, so it's kind of like a, a breathable
bladder and you wet it down and you,

00:35:25.490 --> 00:35:29.365
you stick that joint in that bag, uh,
that reduces the total of water loss.

00:35:29.625 --> 00:35:32.714
So kind of acts as a semi-permeable
membrane, just like fat does.

00:35:32.714 --> 00:35:35.775
But the poor man's version of that is go
to your butcher shop and buy a bunch of

00:35:35.775 --> 00:35:39.705
pork ld or rendered beef towel, right,
and then, then you can take that joint

00:35:39.705 --> 00:35:42.915
and dip it into the fat and let it cool
and dip it into the fat and let it cool

00:35:42.915 --> 00:35:44.025
and dip it into the fat and let it cool.

00:35:44.029 --> 00:35:45.115
So you build up a wax candle.

00:35:45.855 --> 00:35:48.075
On the outside of your moose tenderloin.

00:35:48.404 --> 00:35:52.365
And then you can let it hang out for
your, your 28 days or your 50 days.

00:35:52.484 --> 00:35:56.085
And it's not gonna lose water, but
it will increase in tenderness.

00:35:56.145 --> 00:35:59.294
So you're not gonna get more and more
concentrated flavor by it dumping water.

00:35:59.745 --> 00:36:01.605
Um, but you, it is gonna
become more tender.

00:36:01.609 --> 00:36:04.634
So that is a way of taking
like a, a really tough old bowl

00:36:05.015 --> 00:36:09.825
and, and making the joints more
useful for grilling a bull moose.

00:36:09.825 --> 00:36:10.575
I've never met that animal.

00:36:10.575 --> 00:36:13.154
Yeah, there's no animal that you
can't eat when you're hungry enough.

00:36:13.665 --> 00:36:17.205
But also if you have a couple tools in
the tool shed and learn the definition of

00:36:17.205 --> 00:36:21.765
the word, if you're a hunter, Uh, learn
the definition of the word braze, and

00:36:21.765 --> 00:36:24.765
I just solved years of horrible meals.

00:36:24.885 --> 00:36:28.575
If you just learn, you can solve
the years of, of your family

00:36:28.575 --> 00:36:30.045
hating your hunting addiction.

00:36:30.195 --> 00:36:30.765
Right.

00:36:30.855 --> 00:36:33.015
Uh, if you learned how to properly braze.

00:36:33.075 --> 00:36:34.395
So it's a technique of cooking.

00:36:34.785 --> 00:36:37.715
I mean, everybody does it in
the slow cooker, so mm-hmm.

00:36:37.845 --> 00:36:41.655
A can of Campbell soup and the slow
cooker is like over your roasting joint

00:36:41.655 --> 00:36:43.515
is kind of a poor man's braze, so mm-hmm.

00:36:43.600 --> 00:36:45.975
Your mom was doing it, or, you
know, someone, someone in your

00:36:45.975 --> 00:36:46.995
family was doing that mm-hmm.

00:36:47.075 --> 00:36:48.225
Since you were a little kid.

00:36:48.525 --> 00:36:48.645
Yeah.

00:36:48.645 --> 00:36:52.575
But that braze can make a crappy
joint, a less desirable, tougher

00:36:52.575 --> 00:36:55.516
joint, like a hip, a hip, uh, inside
or outside round an eye of, round

00:36:55.855 --> 00:36:59.115
off a game animal into something that
just s smushes apart with your thumbs.

00:36:59.115 --> 00:37:00.585
And you can, you can make tacos off it.

00:37:00.585 --> 00:37:01.845
You can make it really, really nice.

00:37:01.935 --> 00:37:05.055
And then one advanced concept,
uh, from the braze in a slow

00:37:05.055 --> 00:37:09.375
cooker is replace the braze liquid
with just fat, like animal fat.

00:37:09.380 --> 00:37:10.485
And that's conf right.

00:37:10.904 --> 00:37:11.384
Right, right.

00:37:11.774 --> 00:37:12.705
C o n f i t.

00:37:12.705 --> 00:37:13.484
It's a French term.

00:37:13.484 --> 00:37:16.274
It's a French method, but if you
can get a bunch of lard from a

00:37:16.274 --> 00:37:19.214
butcher, and I wouldn't use game fat
because it has different qualities,

00:37:19.220 --> 00:37:20.294
it's quite a bit more waxy.

00:37:20.299 --> 00:37:20.384
Mm-hmm.

00:37:20.745 --> 00:37:22.424
But pork fat would be the number one.

00:37:22.430 --> 00:37:26.595
And, and, and second best fat would
probably be beef tall from Oh Jesus.

00:37:26.595 --> 00:37:26.714
Yeah.

00:37:26.720 --> 00:37:28.634
If you had poultry fat,
you're in your business.

00:37:28.640 --> 00:37:29.174
But yeah.

00:37:29.274 --> 00:37:34.935
Any kind of rendered fat, not, not seed
oil barf, but animal fat and it's heated

00:37:34.935 --> 00:37:39.075
to like 170 f like it's a hot bath
and you put a joint and submerge it.

00:37:39.075 --> 00:37:41.475
You can salt it, you can rub
it and then put your joint

00:37:41.475 --> 00:37:43.245
in that, in that confi bath.

00:37:43.605 --> 00:37:46.365
Um, so it just slow cooking
over low heat, but in fat.

00:37:46.365 --> 00:37:48.015
And that just keeps all the
moisture inside that roast.

00:37:48.464 --> 00:37:50.564
And you can get it
after four to six hours.

00:37:50.564 --> 00:37:54.915
You can, you can tame the most
wild and rugged wild animal.

00:37:54.915 --> 00:37:55.305
Beast.

00:37:55.335 --> 00:37:57.734
Like a male bear was probably
the toughest and rubies.

00:37:57.774 --> 00:37:58.015
Mm-hmm.

00:37:58.095 --> 00:37:58.845
Meat that I ever had.

00:37:58.850 --> 00:37:59.564
An old black bear.

00:37:59.564 --> 00:37:59.625
Yeah.

00:37:59.955 --> 00:38:02.714
Uh, and you can make it something
that will pull apart or break apart

00:38:02.714 --> 00:38:05.475
and you can eat it like on a sandwich
without pulling all your teeth out.

00:38:05.955 --> 00:38:09.465
Travis Bader: So my wife's a
chef by trade, uh, worked under

00:38:09.465 --> 00:38:14.085
Hawksworth Uhto for over a year and
then, uh, got a Red seal through

00:38:14.085 --> 00:38:16.455
Fairmont, um, hotel Vancouver.

00:38:16.725 --> 00:38:19.605
And she was extremely jealous
that I was getting to be able

00:38:19.605 --> 00:38:21.135
to speak to you on this podcast.

00:38:21.140 --> 00:38:21.225
Oh wow.

00:38:21.230 --> 00:38:24.645
So, uh, I'll make sure to have
to, uh, get her to listen to

00:38:24.645 --> 00:38:25.785
a few of these points here.

00:38:26.145 --> 00:38:26.775
Oh, for sure.

00:38:27.045 --> 00:38:30.495
But, um, you know, you brought something
up and he basically answered the

00:38:30.495 --> 00:38:35.055
question, which I knew I had to ask
anyways, cuz it's been an ongoing debate

00:38:35.060 --> 00:38:36.375
that I've had with a friend of mine.

00:38:36.375 --> 00:38:40.755
And he talks about aging beef or aging
meat, is what he's talking about.

00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:44.145
And certain animals, he says, you don't
age 'em because they're too small.

00:38:44.415 --> 00:38:49.455
And the aging and the softness, the
breakdown comes from, uh, the weight

00:38:49.515 --> 00:38:51.465
of the animal kind of tearing apart.

00:38:51.465 --> 00:38:55.035
And I've always said it's an enzyme thing.

00:38:55.950 --> 00:38:59.730
Is there much truth to, can I turn
around after this podcast and tell my

00:38:59.730 --> 00:39:01.350
friend that I was right and he was wrong?

00:39:01.350 --> 00:39:04.129
Or is there some truth to the weight
of the animal actually being a, yeah.

00:39:04.290 --> 00:39:06.299
A part of the, uh, the aging process.

00:39:06.660 --> 00:39:06.990
Jeff Senger: Yeah.

00:39:07.049 --> 00:39:10.980
The, and this is, that's actually getting
really nuancey, but it's, it's, it's

00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:15.600
so exciting to hear that people in the
world outside of, uh, proper butchery

00:39:15.600 --> 00:39:20.430
outside of these channels or I, I love
that Silvercore  and the projects that

00:39:20.430 --> 00:39:24.810
you guys are working on are bringing in
people from maybe, you know, it's a Venn

00:39:24.810 --> 00:39:26.490
diagram where the circles intersect.

00:39:26.490 --> 00:39:29.370
So there's what you talk about,
your wife is beautiful, like a chef

00:39:29.370 --> 00:39:30.779
in the kitchen or chef at home.

00:39:30.785 --> 00:39:31.129
Mm-hmm.

00:39:31.210 --> 00:39:35.399
Uh, kind of coalescing with you and,
and your, your hunting hobby, uh,

00:39:35.430 --> 00:39:39.029
can mean that you've had some of
the best, uh, food experiences from

00:39:39.299 --> 00:39:40.680
animals that you've harvested yourself.

00:39:40.680 --> 00:39:42.779
Not just the memory of the animal,
but also the treatment of it.

00:39:42.779 --> 00:39:44.160
And you control kind of all the steps.

00:39:44.160 --> 00:39:47.670
So those are Michelin star, like Michelin
star doesn't even come close to touching

00:39:47.670 --> 00:39:48.839
the, the meals that I'm sure you've had.

00:39:49.410 --> 00:39:51.730
Um, and then your, your, like
the butcher, butcher curious

00:39:52.109 --> 00:39:54.120
and butcher adjacency is Yes.

00:39:54.120 --> 00:39:54.509
There, there.

00:39:54.569 --> 00:39:58.080
So, When an animal is hung, uh,
in the, in the side, the, the

00:39:58.080 --> 00:39:59.220
weight of the animal is stretching.

00:39:59.220 --> 00:40:02.370
All the fibers, Riga, morta
sets in, so they become stiff.

00:40:02.370 --> 00:40:05.460
And now you can no long, no longer
pliable joints, and people would argue

00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:08.669
that there is stretching of the fiber
while the animal is still stretchy.

00:40:08.674 --> 00:40:10.140
And then Riga morta stiffens it up.

00:40:10.140 --> 00:40:11.160
So it's hard like a rock.

00:40:11.160 --> 00:40:14.240
So you can swing a side of beef round,
if you were immensely strong, you'd

00:40:14.430 --> 00:40:17.399
swing it around and it, it's, it's,
it's rigid like a lollipop kind of.

00:40:17.580 --> 00:40:17.819
Yeah.

00:40:18.029 --> 00:40:21.720
Um, but that initial stretching
in Riga mortis is, is part of the

00:40:21.899 --> 00:40:25.740
lengthening and, and eh, to some extent
softening of those muscle fibers.

00:40:25.740 --> 00:40:27.120
So that's part of the process, but, okay.

00:40:27.509 --> 00:40:32.580
I did read some super nerds talk
about hanging lambs by the HB bone

00:40:32.830 --> 00:40:36.240
instead of by the heel or the back
of the, the back of the knees.

00:40:36.299 --> 00:40:39.990
So all animals are on a spreader bar
between the backs of the knees and the

00:40:39.990 --> 00:40:43.169
whole way to the animal hanging basically
off the knee joints, and then they're

00:40:43.169 --> 00:40:45.240
hanging head down knee joints split.

00:40:45.240 --> 00:40:45.330
Mm-hmm.

00:40:46.080 --> 00:40:49.589
Um, but some super nerds and
new theories in hanging lambs.

00:40:49.595 --> 00:40:52.919
And it, it's, it should work for beef too,
is that if you hang the animal, let it

00:40:52.919 --> 00:40:54.689
riga mortis with a hook in its HB bone.

00:40:55.035 --> 00:40:56.745
Then the front leg is just lulled forward.

00:40:56.750 --> 00:40:56.835
Mm-hmm.

00:40:57.165 --> 00:41:00.615
And it, it's, it's no longer under
stretch cuz you're picking it up by

00:41:00.615 --> 00:41:05.115
a, by the joint in the hip that's,
uh, that's lower than that hip.

00:41:05.445 --> 00:41:07.905
So all of your rounds
are able to not stretch.

00:41:07.935 --> 00:41:11.175
And then, and then Riga mortis happens
with the am the, the fiber knot at,

00:41:11.175 --> 00:41:12.455
at sort of this maximum stretch.

00:41:12.825 --> 00:41:16.095
And that's supposed to,
scientifically papers have proven it.

00:41:16.605 --> 00:41:21.705
Um, that lamb, uh, hip muscles, the
hip, the hip, uh, meat cuts are more

00:41:21.705 --> 00:41:23.265
tender when you hang 'em by the H bone.

00:41:23.895 --> 00:41:27.735
There are problems in our, yeah, our
cooler isn't designed to, like, there's

00:41:27.735 --> 00:41:31.545
a little bit of geometry problems
to do that with pigs or with lambs.

00:41:31.605 --> 00:41:35.955
Uh, it's, it's easier because that leg
hanging down kind of eats up too much

00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:37.485
cooler space to, to do it with beef.

00:41:37.545 --> 00:41:40.215
And with beef you're dealing
with maybe 500 pounds aside.

00:41:40.515 --> 00:41:44.565
So generally, if the HB bone
is cut exactly down the middle

00:41:44.570 --> 00:41:45.615
of the HB bone can hold it.

00:41:45.795 --> 00:41:47.625
But we didn't want to gamble with beef.

00:41:47.685 --> 00:41:51.555
Um, uh, the, the hook coming through
the HB bone or the HB bone breaking

00:41:51.555 --> 00:41:54.135
under the way to the beef and then
having it kills kill somebody.

00:41:54.135 --> 00:41:55.245
So we haven't done it with beef.

00:41:55.545 --> 00:42:00.135
Um, we did a trial with lamb and the,
it looked funny, and there's the lake

00:42:00.135 --> 00:42:05.475
and the, the, the lamb was butter
tender, but I, I don't eat enough lamb.

00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:07.605
And we didn't do it with
enough samples to say.

00:42:08.205 --> 00:42:09.315
Uh, what do you call it?

00:42:09.345 --> 00:42:13.815
Um, not measurable objectively,
or si we couldn't say that it was

00:42:13.815 --> 00:42:15.645
more tender than this other lamb.

00:42:15.825 --> 00:42:17.895
There's just too many other variables
that you would have to control.

00:42:17.895 --> 00:42:21.855
But if you had two identical lambs or
two identical fawns, uh, whitetail,

00:42:21.855 --> 00:42:25.335
fawns that you shot out of the same,
uh, batch, you, you might be able to

00:42:25.335 --> 00:42:27.735
hang one one way and hang one of the,
and there, there should be a difference

00:42:27.735 --> 00:42:29.985
because science says there is interesting.

00:42:29.985 --> 00:42:32.955
So the cord is still out for
my lived experience in that.

00:42:32.955 --> 00:42:36.884
And I don't think Kevin or I, Kevin
Kowan, or I, or any of my hunting group

00:42:36.890 --> 00:42:41.505
has actually hung a deer by the H bone
yet to see if that relaxed leg during

00:42:41.505 --> 00:42:43.935
the process of rigor mortis would
mean that the muscle fibers aren't

00:42:43.935 --> 00:42:45.705
as, aren't as stretched and aren't as.

00:42:46.305 --> 00:42:50.345
So enzymatic activity is what leads to
your softening and, and breakdown of,

00:42:50.475 --> 00:42:54.075
of tenderness of the muscle, um, and
the weight of the animal does affect it.

00:42:54.075 --> 00:42:59.235
But, but this new study is saying
that, um, having it stretched to the

00:42:59.235 --> 00:43:02.895
max, like a lot of weight vertical
on every muscle fiber in the, in the

00:43:02.895 --> 00:43:05.775
thing, uh, long longitudinally along
the length from the knee to the.

00:43:06.090 --> 00:43:08.550
The knee to the neck, probably
not the most, the best way

00:43:08.550 --> 00:43:09.540
to hang it to be tender.

00:43:10.020 --> 00:43:10.650
Travis Bader: Interesting.

00:43:11.070 --> 00:43:15.900
The, the other thing I've seen, so
I did my first hunt out of country.

00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.460
I was in, uh, Molokai, did a access deer
hunt with my, my wife and my son, and,

00:43:22.020 --> 00:43:24.140
excuse me, my, my daughter stayed behind.

00:43:24.450 --> 00:43:27.420
She was, uh, in voca but wasn't,
didn't want to come on the hunt.

00:43:27.930 --> 00:43:33.120
Um, and in these warmer climates, I'm
told they'll get the meat and they'll

00:43:33.120 --> 00:43:37.680
immediately put it on, on ice in
like a, uh, a cooler with a bunch of

00:43:37.680 --> 00:43:43.020
crust crushed ice, which I've never
done here in, in British Columbia.

00:43:43.770 --> 00:43:47.760
And I've always figured if I throw
it into water and crushed ice

00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:53.610
like that, it's going to, uh, uh,
adversely ef affect the flavor of it.

00:43:53.850 --> 00:43:56.970
But apparently it's a, I was told
anyways, in the warmer weather

00:43:56.970 --> 00:43:59.730
climates is a very common thing
that they'll bleed it like that.

00:44:00.180 --> 00:44:02.700
Um, what are your thoughts on, on

00:44:02.700 --> 00:44:03.000
Jeff Senger: that?

00:44:03.720 --> 00:44:09.600
Um, in our, in North American food
systems all, uh, poultry, or 99%

00:44:09.600 --> 00:44:11.850
of poultry are, uh, ice water bath.

00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:12.299
So, okay.

00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.090
It's not, it's not something strange and
not something you haven't eaten before.

00:44:15.090 --> 00:44:19.230
It would be, uh, poultry is
gutted, uh, plucked, uh, gutted,

00:44:19.259 --> 00:44:21.220
and then, uh, uh, cold water bath.

00:44:21.279 --> 00:44:21.900
So, okay.

00:44:22.620 --> 00:44:28.799
Um, it immediately brings that high risk
food temperature down, uh, because of

00:44:28.799 --> 00:44:33.930
the, any contamination of poultry, uh,
would be salmonella, which is dangerous.

00:44:33.930 --> 00:44:35.610
So they want to get the
temperature down really quickly.

00:44:35.850 --> 00:44:36.810
They wanna wash the birds.

00:44:37.080 --> 00:44:39.540
Um, there could, it can be
a mild, uh, saltwater brine,

00:44:40.020 --> 00:44:42.029
uh, saltwater brine on birds.

00:44:42.299 --> 00:44:44.040
Uh, the birds will pick up water.

00:44:44.040 --> 00:44:46.350
They will absorb water, and so
you're adding, you're adding

00:44:46.350 --> 00:44:47.640
weight to the finished bird.

00:44:47.640 --> 00:44:50.759
And, uh, giant commodity
agriculture producers love that.

00:44:51.235 --> 00:44:55.634
Um, you can get birds in North America
that are air dried or air air chilled, and

00:44:55.634 --> 00:44:59.715
that would be, you need way more cooler
space and spacing between the birds.

00:44:59.715 --> 00:45:02.025
You can't pack 'em as dense as
you could just into an ice bath.

00:45:02.025 --> 00:45:03.855
So it's a little bit economy of scale.

00:45:03.855 --> 00:45:07.515
Like it's, it's cheaper for a
gigantic bird processor to put 'em

00:45:07.515 --> 00:45:10.815
in ice water rather than hang them
on any kind of a rail, so, right.

00:45:10.875 --> 00:45:13.575
Um, now it is interesting.

00:45:13.575 --> 00:45:18.735
It does have an effect on, uh, uh, you
know, food, uh, quality characteristics

00:45:18.735 --> 00:45:22.815
that, uh, you have a flabbier skin on a
bird that's been in water, and so the same

00:45:22.815 --> 00:45:25.455
would apply to your deer, uh, or Yeah.

00:45:25.460 --> 00:45:28.375
To a fallow deer or, or
a wild game of any kind.

00:45:28.785 --> 00:45:28.875
Mm-hmm.

00:45:29.475 --> 00:45:34.095
Um, we like the, the, the scab that forms
on a, on an animal that's hung in air.

00:45:34.245 --> 00:45:34.335
Right.

00:45:34.605 --> 00:45:38.565
Uh, that becomes kind of a, a, a
barrier from things getting in, like

00:45:38.565 --> 00:45:41.775
insects or, uh, mold, uh, bacteria.

00:45:41.775 --> 00:45:42.015
Mm-hmm.

00:45:42.255 --> 00:45:45.015
And that scab usually comes off the
animal when you're butchering it.

00:45:45.015 --> 00:45:46.665
So there's a real clear delineation.

00:45:46.665 --> 00:45:51.194
A millimeter or two of bark or scab comes
off the wild game animal, and then you're

00:45:51.200 --> 00:45:53.005
just into beautiful red or burgundy meat.

00:45:53.625 --> 00:45:56.924
Um, if something's been, uh, in a cold
water bath, like I, I'm not knocking the

00:45:56.924 --> 00:45:58.785
culture, I think it, that works just fine.

00:45:58.845 --> 00:46:01.634
And probably they're used to
eating an animal, like it's way

00:46:01.634 --> 00:46:02.775
better that it's chilled down.

00:46:03.194 --> 00:46:06.404
Uh, even if it's not chilled down, hanging
it in a, in, you know, on a, on a gambler

00:46:06.404 --> 00:46:07.785
or something, it's chilled down quickly.

00:46:07.785 --> 00:46:12.125
And I think that is the most important
thing, um, to preserve food, uh, from

00:46:12.375 --> 00:46:14.625
being rotted or from, from going to waste.

00:46:14.625 --> 00:46:15.615
So that's great.

00:46:16.035 --> 00:46:19.904
Um, but it would offer a bit of a
weird texture because it could, it

00:46:19.910 --> 00:46:23.325
could be drinking, it could be soaking
up water instead of losing water and

00:46:23.325 --> 00:46:24.674
making that hard husk on the outside.

00:46:24.674 --> 00:46:26.565
So you might approach it
a little bit differently.

00:46:26.565 --> 00:46:27.165
Butchering.

00:46:27.375 --> 00:46:30.085
You wouldn't have to take off a scab and
you'd, you, you'd probably have lovely

00:46:30.085 --> 00:46:32.625
red meat, uh, on the outside still.

00:46:32.970 --> 00:46:36.450
Uh, or you may choose to remove this,
the, the, the outer layer, the outer

00:46:36.450 --> 00:46:39.839
two or three millimeters, um, because
it was in contact with, with that water.

00:46:39.839 --> 00:46:42.990
And if you had concerns about
contamination in the water, like a tiny

00:46:42.995 --> 00:46:48.120
fleck of something in the water leaves
or, uh, pine needles or dirt or, or, uh,

00:46:48.150 --> 00:46:51.440
contamination viscera or whatever could,
could be then on spread out throughout

00:46:51.690 --> 00:46:53.220
the carcass instead of just on the spot.

00:46:53.225 --> 00:46:56.609
So, so there's pros and cons, but I
think the main thing is the spirit

00:46:56.609 --> 00:46:59.580
is right and that's just getting that
thing cold as quickly as you can.

00:47:00.029 --> 00:47:04.140
Uh, because heat can cause, uh, bone
ro right in the, in the heaviest muscle

00:47:04.140 --> 00:47:07.589
groups, particularly for big animals,
uh, they can take a really long time and

00:47:07.589 --> 00:47:11.250
ambient temperatures to cool down, uh,
especially around the spine in the heavy,

00:47:11.250 --> 00:47:14.940
in the shoulders of heavy, big game like
moose, uh, around the hip and hip bones.

00:47:15.390 --> 00:47:21.060
Um, that's probably the most likely
way to lose meat or make yourself

00:47:21.060 --> 00:47:25.470
really sick is that green bone ro uh,
right around the hip joints and in

00:47:25.470 --> 00:47:28.839
the should of big game if they haven't
cooled down properly or quickly enough.

00:47:29.565 --> 00:47:33.375
Um, uh, that's why there's a bit of an
obsession about saw alls in camp for

00:47:33.375 --> 00:47:36.525
moose or deer to split 'em down the
spine, just like at the ABA avatar.

00:47:37.215 --> 00:47:39.255
Um, that that's not easy to do either.

00:47:39.255 --> 00:47:40.395
The hand sawing sucks.

00:47:40.605 --> 00:47:42.674
Uh, we've seen chain chainsaw.

00:47:42.735 --> 00:47:43.665
Uh, no, everything's moving

00:47:43.665 --> 00:47:44.805
Travis Bader: up and
down as you're using it.

00:47:44.955 --> 00:47:45.674
Jeff Senger: It's a mess.

00:47:45.680 --> 00:47:45.915
Yeah.

00:47:46.305 --> 00:47:47.805
Um, but it, that, that's the whole point.

00:47:48.674 --> 00:47:52.365
A similar, I did, uh, a couple of
game butchery workshops where I had

00:47:52.365 --> 00:47:55.455
some alpacas from a neighbor stand
in and I killed, I killed three

00:47:55.455 --> 00:47:58.605
alpacas, one at a time in the middle
of February and an Alberta winter.

00:47:58.634 --> 00:47:58.725
Mm-hmm.

00:47:58.970 --> 00:48:00.225
In front of six or eight hunters.

00:48:00.465 --> 00:48:04.275
And I showed them several different, uh,
field dressing and, and, and butchering

00:48:04.275 --> 00:48:08.865
techniques that they could do in the
field from, um, from just gutting it,

00:48:08.865 --> 00:48:12.735
leaving the hide on and hauling it on
a sledge, um, down to quartering it.

00:48:12.735 --> 00:48:15.404
And then the third one was
actually pulling all the primal

00:48:15.404 --> 00:48:17.955
muscle groups off and leaving the
ribs in the spine, in the field.

00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:22.170
So in different, different scenarios,
like how far back you are, whether you're

00:48:22.170 --> 00:48:28.860
backpacking or have access to, uh, um,
quad strikes and, uh, and trucks, like

00:48:28.860 --> 00:48:29.860
how close you're to a road mm-hmm.

00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:31.770
Would determine what and the temperature.

00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:31.890
Right.

00:48:31.890 --> 00:48:33.840
So we had all these, it was a
great conversation and it was

00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:35.190
really a fun course to teach.

00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:38.740
Um, but Cub Bank a good one.

00:48:38.740 --> 00:48:38.860
Yeah.

00:48:38.860 --> 00:48:40.440
It's, there's something to think about.

00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:43.950
About, oh, so a quick way anyway to get,
to get to, to, to prevent green rod.

00:48:43.950 --> 00:48:46.140
Here's some more value for
your sweet, sweet listeners.

00:48:46.140 --> 00:48:50.910
My, my family of outdoor enthusiasts
and, and, uh, is that, um, if you go

00:48:50.910 --> 00:48:54.700
behind the, the shoulder blade on,
on even a, a buck deer, you can, you

00:48:54.930 --> 00:48:58.650
can cut under the shoulder blade and
kind of drop the, the front arms.

00:48:59.205 --> 00:49:03.825
Um, to get cold air circulating
under the shoulder blades and cool

00:49:03.825 --> 00:49:07.275
that front quarter a lot quicker
without splitting it down the,

00:49:07.305 --> 00:49:08.685
down the scent or down the spine.

00:49:08.685 --> 00:49:11.836
Like you would, if you were, like, you
didn't have a battery operated, saw all.

00:49:12.345 --> 00:49:16.995
If you didn't have a hand saw and someone
with, you know, 45 minutes to kill, um,

00:49:16.995 --> 00:49:18.055
you can just drop those shoulder blades.

00:49:18.055 --> 00:49:18.175
Yeah.

00:49:18.375 --> 00:49:21.705
And they kind of hang down like
chicken wings, but it allows cold air.

00:49:21.710 --> 00:49:21.765
Yeah.

00:49:21.795 --> 00:49:24.915
So you're just kind of breaking up that
huge muscle mass so that cold air can get

00:49:24.915 --> 00:49:26.445
it around it and, and chill the animal.

00:49:27.165 --> 00:49:28.515
Um, so it's something to think about.

00:49:28.515 --> 00:49:30.765
And we've do done that in the field
as well when we're in a pinch or the

00:49:30.765 --> 00:49:33.495
weather's a bit too warm, uh, we know
we've gotta spend the night and it's

00:49:33.495 --> 00:49:35.115
gonna be plus 10 overnight or something.

00:49:35.475 --> 00:49:39.435
Um, we'll, we'll, we'll just find
the, find the, the seam under the

00:49:39.435 --> 00:49:42.855
shoulder blade, drop those chicken
wings open and make sure that the HB

00:49:42.860 --> 00:49:46.065
bones split so that the hip, the hips
got lots of air to circulate around,

00:49:46.065 --> 00:49:49.995
like through the, through the colon
cavity, like through the HB bone.

00:49:50.025 --> 00:49:51.405
Uh, there's lots of air movement.

00:49:51.405 --> 00:49:51.406
Yeah.

00:49:53.775 --> 00:49:53.985
So

00:49:53.985 --> 00:49:56.175
Travis Bader: I've got a Garmin
watch and they make this little

00:49:56.175 --> 00:49:59.625
thing called the Garmin temp to E
M P E and I put that on my back.

00:49:59.625 --> 00:50:01.545
So on my pack, sorry.

00:50:01.995 --> 00:50:05.205
So I can get a hopefully accurate
temperature reading that's not

00:50:05.210 --> 00:50:07.125
as, uh, right on my wrist here.

00:50:07.515 --> 00:50:11.325
What would I be looking at as sort
of a danger zone for temperature

00:50:11.425 --> 00:50:14.955
if, let's say I'm on a early season
hunt and it's a bit warmer out.

00:50:15.615 --> 00:50:16.245
Jeff Senger: Oh man.

00:50:16.365 --> 00:50:19.545
Like, uh, over six degrees
Celsius, you're in the day,

00:50:19.815 --> 00:50:21.375
like over four degrees Celsius.

00:50:21.405 --> 00:50:25.155
You have two hours, the food should
be exposed no more than two hours to

00:50:25.155 --> 00:50:27.345
anything warmer than four degrees Celsius.

00:50:27.885 --> 00:50:31.695
And so for hunting, that
is a challenge, you know?

00:50:31.725 --> 00:50:33.675
So, and, and like Kevin
and I have been manic.

00:50:33.735 --> 00:50:34.695
Yeah, we've been manic.

00:50:34.725 --> 00:50:37.335
Like that's where the pressure,
the pressure to get that animal,

00:50:37.635 --> 00:50:38.955
uh, field dressed skinned.

00:50:39.390 --> 00:50:42.060
Uh, whacked into smaller
pieces, carried out, hauled out.

00:50:42.065 --> 00:50:44.700
You, you really want to minimize
the total amount of temperature

00:50:44.700 --> 00:50:49.170
that that meat spends at, uh, at, at
greater than four degrees Celsius.

00:50:49.170 --> 00:50:53.310
So, so I, yeah, I mean, we get panicky,
you know, if it's four to six and,

00:50:53.310 --> 00:50:56.820
and it doesn't call for an over
overnight low below zero, um, then

00:50:56.825 --> 00:50:57.750
you're like, geez, I should, mm-hmm.

00:50:57.990 --> 00:50:59.520
Someone's, someone's driving out tonight.

00:50:59.520 --> 00:51:01.500
When an animal goes
down, if you care about.

00:51:01.830 --> 00:51:03.930
Uh, the, the, the meat quality.

00:51:04.470 --> 00:51:08.310
Uh, and you want your family to enjoy
it and eat it and have the best quality

00:51:08.310 --> 00:51:09.840
experience they can from that animal.

00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:11.880
So, uh, you know, an older mm-hmm.

00:51:12.180 --> 00:51:15.060
Male animal is gonna be gaming to
begin with, and then you shoot it

00:51:15.065 --> 00:51:18.340
way back in the brush, and then
it's a six hour extract mm-hmm.

00:51:18.720 --> 00:51:20.100
Uh, of a 700 pound animal.

00:51:20.100 --> 00:51:20.380
Mm-hmm.

00:51:20.640 --> 00:51:23.550
And it's gonna be an unpleasant
eating experience all the way through.

00:51:23.670 --> 00:51:27.030
And then definitely the, the way to
mitigate that hunters, since time

00:51:27.240 --> 00:51:31.170
immemorial has been to cook the shit out
of, like, literally you're cooking the

00:51:31.170 --> 00:51:33.330
bacteria out of it right in, in the meat.

00:51:33.330 --> 00:51:37.320
So, um, overcooking it is
desirable because, I mean, I,

00:51:37.350 --> 00:51:39.900
growing up, I think I got an iron
gut from eating moose that had.

00:51:40.410 --> 00:51:42.810
Had taken too long to re recover at two.

00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:45.780
Like we had, we had chronic irritable,
we thought we had irritable bowel

00:51:45.780 --> 00:51:49.260
syndrome, but it was just through eating
meat that was probably very close to,

00:51:49.710 --> 00:51:52.110
very close to the boundary of spoiled.

00:51:52.140 --> 00:51:52.440
Right.

00:51:52.680 --> 00:51:55.950
As a consistent, two big boys
eating a lot of big steaks.

00:51:55.950 --> 00:51:59.000
And the steaks were like, this one tastes
a little like gar, like the garbage dump.

00:51:59.460 --> 00:52:01.440
And dad's like, shut, shut up.

00:52:01.710 --> 00:52:01.950
You know?

00:52:03.390 --> 00:52:06.570
Uh, if it tastes like a garbage
dump, you gotta try in farming,

00:52:06.630 --> 00:52:11.010
fermenting and, and, um, kimchi
and, um, sauerkraut at the farm.

00:52:11.110 --> 00:52:11.400
Yeah.

00:52:11.730 --> 00:52:14.700
Uh, there's some great books written
on fermenting and it says, trust

00:52:14.700 --> 00:52:17.080
your nose and trust your palate.

00:52:17.100 --> 00:52:19.560
If it tastes like it's bad, it's bad.

00:52:20.220 --> 00:52:20.670
Okay.

00:52:21.030 --> 00:52:21.270
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:52:21.300 --> 00:52:21.660
Yeah.

00:52:21.930 --> 00:52:24.990
Who's that guy who does
all that fermenting in, uh,

00:52:24.990 --> 00:52:26.550
not in the Nordic country.

00:52:26.580 --> 00:52:29.610
It's not Noma, uh, Zepi.

00:52:30.230 --> 00:52:30.920
Yeah, Zepi.

00:52:31.080 --> 00:52:32.100
That's what I'm thinking of.

00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:32.460
Yeah.

00:52:32.490 --> 00:52:33.240
Uh, yeah.

00:52:33.630 --> 00:52:36.360
Is, is he still deep into that
whole fermenting business?

00:52:36.750 --> 00:52:37.950
Jeff Senger: Uh, yeah.

00:52:37.980 --> 00:52:38.129
Yeah.

00:52:38.129 --> 00:52:41.520
I think the, the chefs that go deep
go really deep and they stay there.

00:52:41.520 --> 00:52:42.660
So there's a lot.

00:52:42.689 --> 00:52:43.020
Ofpi.

00:52:43.379 --> 00:52:43.620
All right.

00:52:43.625 --> 00:52:43.850
Renny.

00:52:43.950 --> 00:52:44.250
Rozee.

00:52:44.250 --> 00:52:44.490
Yeah.

00:52:44.580 --> 00:52:46.859
Um, yeah, those who love it.

00:52:46.859 --> 00:52:47.279
Love it a lot.

00:52:47.279 --> 00:52:50.339
I mean, you discover, I think when
you're tired of coloring with the

00:52:50.345 --> 00:52:52.379
eight crown crayons that mm-hmm.

00:52:52.410 --> 00:52:56.549
I think that fermentation and exploring
traditional cultural food traditions,

00:52:56.879 --> 00:53:03.000
uh, and deep traditions, cheese making,
uh, dry cured fermented meats, uh, and,

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:04.919
and, and fermented fruits and vegetables.

00:53:04.924 --> 00:53:07.859
You can go, you're now you're
calling with the Lorenn 36 pack

00:53:07.859 --> 00:53:09.629
or whatever back in the eighties.

00:53:09.634 --> 00:53:10.799
You're like, wow, they have gold.

00:53:10.980 --> 00:53:12.029
They have gold in here.

00:53:12.029 --> 00:53:13.169
This looks like, yeah, I remember.

00:53:14.839 --> 00:53:16.109
Travis Bader: Yeah, I remember that.

00:53:16.115 --> 00:53:17.490
That was always the, uh, yeah.

00:53:17.850 --> 00:53:18.120
Yeah.

00:53:18.120 --> 00:53:19.439
The cool kit on the block if you had

00:53:19.439 --> 00:53:19.830
Jeff Senger: those.

00:53:20.279 --> 00:53:23.850
Well, fermentation is the, is the, you
know, the, the pencil crown kit that

00:53:23.850 --> 00:53:27.000
we would all kill for back in the,
in the 19 and eighties or whatever.

00:53:27.060 --> 00:53:31.529
Uh, as, as is the cooking techniques
mentioned earlier that if you

00:53:31.529 --> 00:53:34.410
can get just one technique under
your belt that isn't grilling.

00:53:34.995 --> 00:53:35.145
Hmm.

00:53:35.175 --> 00:53:37.365
Even really get, really
get keen on pan Fry.

00:53:37.365 --> 00:53:39.195
I went through a whole pan frying stage.

00:53:39.585 --> 00:53:43.515
I just wanted to sort of make
an excellent steak, uh, in pan

00:53:43.515 --> 00:53:44.805
Fry, splashing with butter.

00:53:45.105 --> 00:53:48.885
And it's way easier than you think,
but it's not something you can really

00:53:48.885 --> 00:53:50.805
read a book about or set a watch to.

00:53:50.835 --> 00:53:53.605
It's kind of something that's an
intuitive, kind of like barbecuing,

00:53:53.895 --> 00:53:59.025
like there is the science and there
are all of those, uh, temperature, um,

00:53:59.175 --> 00:53:59.355
Travis Bader: senses.

00:53:59.355 --> 00:53:59.415
Yeah.

00:53:59.565 --> 00:53:59.895
And the finger

00:53:59.895 --> 00:54:00.825
Jeff Senger: thing and Yeah.

00:54:00.830 --> 00:54:00.845
Yeah.

00:54:00.885 --> 00:54:02.115
And the finger thing on your th Yeah.

00:54:02.115 --> 00:54:02.295
Yeah.

00:54:02.300 --> 00:54:05.325
That, that, the, John Schneider told
me about that, and, uh, I thought it

00:54:05.325 --> 00:54:06.855
was funny and he's, it's not wrong.

00:54:07.275 --> 00:54:11.415
Uh, probably the probes are pretty
decent for a new cook to not screw

00:54:11.415 --> 00:54:13.905
it up and overcook particularly
wild game because it's lean.

00:54:13.905 --> 00:54:16.785
You want to keep, you want to,
it's rare to medium, rare is, is

00:54:16.785 --> 00:54:18.075
best served probably all game.

00:54:18.615 --> 00:54:18.735
Mm-hmm.

00:54:18.850 --> 00:54:21.765
Uh, on the rare side, not on the
well done side, or else it's a little

00:54:21.765 --> 00:54:24.645
bit like shoe leather because of
a lack of marbling, a lack of fat.

00:54:24.855 --> 00:54:25.755
Because these animals work.

00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:25.815
Yeah.

00:54:25.845 --> 00:54:26.805
They work for a living.

00:54:26.805 --> 00:54:29.405
They have to stay, they're not
generally really, really fat.

00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:33.420
Travis Bader: What are some of
the most common mistakes you're

00:54:33.420 --> 00:54:36.840
seeing hunters make when they're
out in the field with their meat?

00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:38.640
Is that not bleeding it?

00:54:38.640 --> 00:54:41.220
If it's, uh, if it's not
a heart and lung shot.

00:54:41.805 --> 00:54:42.135
No.

00:54:42.135 --> 00:54:43.275
Just getting dirt and

00:54:43.275 --> 00:54:43.665
Jeff Senger: everything.

00:54:44.265 --> 00:54:45.075
No.

00:54:45.075 --> 00:54:49.935
Travis Bader, uh, poor shot
placement is appalling.

00:54:50.715 --> 00:54:52.305
Just, ah, dude.

00:54:52.305 --> 00:54:53.655
It's, it's nauseating.

00:54:54.225 --> 00:54:58.425
I think this scenario is something
like Nude Hunter goes to Cabela's, uh,

00:54:58.455 --> 00:55:00.915
Cabela's has the new Whizbang Magnum.

00:55:01.485 --> 00:55:04.725
Uh, they're all written about, like
that's what's on the magazine covers.

00:55:04.725 --> 00:55:04.815
Yep.

00:55:04.905 --> 00:55:08.415
That's, that's what's on every freaking,
uh, podcast they're talking about.

00:55:08.415 --> 00:55:12.975
Do you know, does the super extra,
super huge magnum, like, does it deliver

00:55:12.980 --> 00:55:14.805
three feet per second more of velocity?

00:55:14.805 --> 00:55:14.895
Yeah.

00:55:14.900 --> 00:55:17.865
Like what's the killing power and
don't go into the field ill-equipped,

00:55:18.165 --> 00:55:21.735
but so many new hunters are going
into the field with calibers that

00:55:21.735 --> 00:55:24.165
they cannot shoot effectively.

00:55:24.795 --> 00:55:24.885
Mm-hmm.

00:55:25.125 --> 00:55:30.015
And an old man called Chuck Hawks,
uh, wrote a whole bunch of weird Yes.

00:55:30.020 --> 00:55:31.635
Ancient on the internet.

00:55:31.635 --> 00:55:33.855
He was early to the internet
probably in the nineties.

00:55:33.855 --> 00:55:36.985
He started writing
articles@chuckhawks.com and.

00:55:37.875 --> 00:55:41.325
He's kind of a minimalist and I kind
of built some of my Jedi philosophy

00:55:41.325 --> 00:55:46.695
around hunting and that was that Chuck
Hawks is the Yoda that sort of helped

00:55:46.695 --> 00:55:51.365
keep me on the path of what Canadian
hunting, non militaristic hunting mm-hmm.

00:55:51.445 --> 00:55:51.725
Is about.

00:55:51.730 --> 00:55:51.735
Mm-hmm.

00:55:51.975 --> 00:55:56.365
So there's an American style hunting
where it's militar gi Jeff with the

00:55:56.595 --> 00:56:01.455
face paint and Gilly suit, uh, the,
uh, assault rifle style rifles that

00:56:01.455 --> 00:56:03.345
are shaped like man killing rifles.

00:56:03.735 --> 00:56:03.885
Sure.

00:56:03.885 --> 00:56:08.145
And then there's, there's the Chuck Hawks
philosophy that's like, uh, indigenous

00:56:08.145 --> 00:56:11.715
subsistence hunters that wear red
plaid jackets or their street clothes

00:56:11.925 --> 00:56:15.195
and they learn the techniques to hunt
where you don't have to dress up in a

00:56:15.195 --> 00:56:20.415
goofy, uh, outfit that I just shake my
head at almost a lot of the costume.

00:56:20.415 --> 00:56:20.475
Yeah.

00:56:20.955 --> 00:56:25.605
If you need a costume to go hunting, Uh,
you probably haven't spent enough time

00:56:25.605 --> 00:56:29.235
learning how to hunt or reading, read
books about hunting, and you can spend

00:56:29.235 --> 00:56:32.805
your money on books and ammo practice
with your gun, uh, rather than buying

00:56:32.805 --> 00:56:36.495
the silly, uh, the silly camouflage
because you can find out if you like

00:56:36.500 --> 00:56:37.935
it before you invest in that stuff.

00:56:38.355 --> 00:56:38.895
And that's, that's beautiful.

00:56:39.465 --> 00:56:39.945
Yeah.

00:56:39.950 --> 00:56:42.975
It, it has a time and a place the
time, and a place when, when you're the

00:56:43.035 --> 00:56:47.595
black belt level hunter and you need
to, you need to creep, you know, that

00:56:47.595 --> 00:56:53.895
make that final 10, 10 yard approach,
then probably the, the Gilly suit is

00:56:53.895 --> 00:56:59.325
gonna do better than the, than the, um,
standard Cabela's, uh, cam camouflage.

00:56:59.685 --> 00:57:04.125
But for almost the, the, the first
90% of all hunting you can get done.

00:57:04.500 --> 00:57:10.290
By taking a 1970s rifle, uh, practicing
with it and going out in your street close

00:57:10.290 --> 00:57:12.390
to find a deer and, and, and ping a deer.

00:57:12.390 --> 00:57:14.279
And then see, did I like that experience?

00:57:14.549 --> 00:57:14.640
Mm-hmm.

00:57:14.745 --> 00:57:18.960
Uh, was I able to like, uh, achieve
my goals with meat recovery?

00:57:19.319 --> 00:57:20.730
Uh, how did it make me feel?

00:57:20.730 --> 00:57:22.290
And like this is something
gonna do more of.

00:57:22.290 --> 00:57:26.730
But, but I think that, uh, the salesman
at the gun desk wants to make a sale.

00:57:27.240 --> 00:57:31.620
He's well served if he sells a junior
hunter the wrong gun because there's

00:57:31.620 --> 00:57:33.089
no return east, no take backies.

00:57:33.200 --> 00:57:33.620
Mm-hmm.

00:57:33.705 --> 00:57:37.470
So if I, if I sell you, if I'm a gun
guy and I a gun counter a person,

00:57:37.470 --> 00:57:42.660
and I sell a new hunter, uh, 3 38
win mag, and he, and say, oh yeah.

00:57:42.720 --> 00:57:45.660
Oh, the kid doesn't know what to
ask, and they're like, oh, I wanna

00:57:45.665 --> 00:57:47.400
shoot everything under the sun.

00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:48.330
Well, it's true.

00:57:48.330 --> 00:57:51.180
Th through 3 38 win,
meg would kill a moose.

00:57:51.569 --> 00:57:54.900
But even me as an avid hunter,
I'm still only hunting moose

00:57:55.200 --> 00:57:58.740
one 10th of the ti of the, the
number of times I'm shooting deer.

00:57:59.095 --> 00:57:59.515
Mm-hmm.

00:57:59.715 --> 00:58:00.075
That's right.

00:58:00.075 --> 00:58:03.255
And so, so if you're only
buying one rifle, that's one

00:58:03.255 --> 00:58:04.215
question that I would ask.

00:58:04.275 --> 00:58:06.735
If you only have a one gun
cabinet, what's the ideal, uh,

00:58:06.765 --> 00:58:08.715
caliber in Alberta to hunt with?

00:58:08.955 --> 00:58:10.395
And that would be different
from in British Columbia.

00:58:10.605 --> 00:58:14.055
If you can kind of afford to swing a
two or three gun cabinet, you can have

00:58:14.060 --> 00:58:17.355
a small, medium, and large caliber,
but the more you invest in your gun

00:58:17.355 --> 00:58:21.615
cabinet, The more time you need to spend
at a fricking range, and the more you

00:58:21.615 --> 00:58:24.975
need to spend on ammunition to know
what the gun likes, what to feed it.

00:58:24.975 --> 00:58:25.375
Yeah.

00:58:25.575 --> 00:58:28.995
And then what shoots accurately
and what is a pleasure for you to

00:58:28.995 --> 00:58:32.924
shoot because the, I mean, in the
butcher trade, so I'm rounding out

00:58:32.930 --> 00:58:34.694
the answer to your question by, yeah.

00:58:34.700 --> 00:58:35.415
25

00:58:35.415 --> 00:58:36.701
Travis Bader: minutes.

00:58:35.595 --> 00:58:36.464
You're bringing up so many great points.

00:58:36.654 --> 00:58:36.944
Yeah,

00:58:37.154 --> 00:58:37.634
Jeff Senger: I love this.

00:58:37.995 --> 00:58:42.765
Um, but, but Chuck Hawk said it, and like
other great minds in hunting have said

00:58:42.765 --> 00:58:47.084
it also that the most lethal thing in
determining lethality is shot placement.

00:58:47.595 --> 00:58:52.035
So if you can get a 22 shell
into a moose's up his snout and

00:58:52.035 --> 00:58:56.865
into his brain, that is a, a way
better outcome than shooting a a

00:58:56.870 --> 00:59:00.134
a 3 38 lap, uh, through his ass.

00:59:00.140 --> 00:59:00.975
And he pronounce it right too.

00:59:00.975 --> 00:59:01.395
Good for you.

00:59:01.395 --> 00:59:01.694
Oh, there you go.

00:59:01.694 --> 00:59:02.116
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:02.404 --> 00:59:04.154
Uh, yeah, I've been
looking at such a rifle.

00:59:04.185 --> 00:59:04.334
Yeah.

00:59:04.339 --> 00:59:06.794
I've been looking at such a
long, long rage rifle, so yeah.

00:59:06.799 --> 00:59:07.544
I'm like, Mr.

00:59:07.544 --> 00:59:08.084
Hypocrite here.

00:59:08.205 --> 00:59:11.174
But no, I, I, I, I like
it for precision shooting.

00:59:11.234 --> 00:59:13.305
I, I think that also making
a delineation between.

00:59:14.295 --> 00:59:17.924
Hey, young folks, there's precision
shooting and there's also mm-hmm.

00:59:18.005 --> 00:59:19.325
Hunting and subsistence hunting.

00:59:19.355 --> 00:59:21.435
There's trophy hunting and
then subsistence hunting.

00:59:21.435 --> 00:59:24.705
So those little nuancey things our
brains aren't particularly good at.

00:59:24.915 --> 00:59:25.875
As chi, as hairless.

00:59:25.875 --> 00:59:30.085
Chimpanzees, we kind of like to, to bend
things into black and white, so Yes.

00:59:30.145 --> 00:59:33.795
Uh, and questions like, what's the
best cut of meat on the, on the animal

00:59:33.795 --> 00:59:35.265
is like, that's too black and white.

00:59:35.265 --> 00:59:36.194
It depends on what you like.

00:59:36.200 --> 00:59:36.245
Yeah.

00:59:36.255 --> 00:59:37.455
What's the best caliber?

00:59:37.694 --> 00:59:39.915
You see those on, uh, web
searches all, all the time.

00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:42.915
It's like, there is no best caliber,
it's the best caliber for you.

00:59:43.335 --> 00:59:47.775
But I find because I'm a fire hose of
butchery knowledge and, and a bit of

00:59:47.779 --> 00:59:51.285
hunting knowledge, people kind of zone out
the attention span of average youngsters

00:59:51.285 --> 00:59:56.415
is lo like I have kids and, uh, they,
you're like, oh God, he's on another rant.

00:59:56.444 --> 00:59:57.375
Like, give it a break then.

00:59:58.035 --> 01:00:01.964
But, uh, but there's a lot to think about
and, and, and, and, and I think that to

01:00:01.964 --> 01:00:05.325
make the most sales in the shortest period
of time at the gun counter, at this, at

01:00:05.330 --> 01:00:08.884
the mega store, uh, they don't really want
to, they don't care about what you weigh.

01:00:09.705 --> 01:00:13.995
What your flinch resistance is and what
your experience planking might have been.

01:00:13.995 --> 01:00:15.794
And they don't want, they
don't need to be that patient.

01:00:15.794 --> 01:00:16.725
They just wanna make a sale.

01:00:17.415 --> 01:00:20.774
Uh, and they'll have, so we've, we've
handled deer that have been shot, you

01:00:20.779 --> 01:00:26.205
know, 12 times with an Uber Magnum,
and then we've gotta charge $145 or

01:00:26.205 --> 01:00:27.904
something, is our flat rate for whitetail.

01:00:28.444 --> 01:00:31.694
And the hunter comes in, in
inevitably the hunter that emptied

01:00:31.694 --> 01:00:33.015
a magazine on this poor thing.

01:00:33.044 --> 01:00:37.395
And he, he comes or he comes in and he,
and we, we hand them a, a a 10 pound box.

01:00:37.395 --> 01:00:38.595
And he's like, what'd you do with my deer?

01:00:39.350 --> 01:00:41.130
And, and you'll say, $145 for this.

01:00:41.130 --> 01:00:41.610
10 pounds.

01:00:41.610 --> 01:00:43.140
And he's like, what did you
do with the rest of my dear?

01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:47.040
And you're like, dude, that
was Shrapnel broken bone lead.

01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:51.150
It was gravel, gravel tree branches were
stuck at like, what were you shooting

01:00:51.150 --> 01:00:52.290
through to kill this poor thing?

01:00:52.295 --> 01:00:54.600
Like, my God, spend
some time at the range.

01:00:54.630 --> 01:00:55.321
I'm not paying you.

01:00:55.560 --> 01:00:56.341
And then he storms out.

01:00:56.520 --> 01:00:59.100
Like, we could make a really,
oh, we could make cartoons.

01:00:59.100 --> 01:01:00.130
Yeah, you stole my deer.

01:01:00.510 --> 01:01:01.500
And you're like, buddy, come on.

01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:06.120
This is, we do not steal, but we would
definitely not steal this piece of

01:01:06.120 --> 01:01:10.410
garbage because it was mostly, it had
more weight by lead and copper than

01:01:10.415 --> 01:01:12.250
it had any, any real, uh, food value.

01:01:13.530 --> 01:01:15.360
So it's tough and that happens a lot.

01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:19.050
I think just people not putting in the
time to practice, they think that they

01:01:19.050 --> 01:01:23.400
can, like a set of golf clubs on the go,
it's way easier to buy the Wizbang Club.

01:01:23.405 --> 01:01:23.570
Yeah.

01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:27.270
Oh, I spent more on this club or,
or car drivers in, yeah, in, in the

01:01:27.270 --> 01:01:29.130
pothole, uh, center of, of Canada.

01:01:29.790 --> 01:01:32.610
Oh look, a Lamborghini, my kid says,
and I'm like, why would you buy

01:01:32.700 --> 01:01:34.500
Lamborghini to drive on Edmonton's?

01:01:34.510 --> 01:01:37.751
Pothole roads like, anyway,
it's kind of like that.

01:01:38.170 --> 01:01:40.750
Can I buy myself a cool thing
to make me a better hunter?

01:01:40.750 --> 01:01:42.520
And the answer, man, you can't.

01:01:42.910 --> 01:01:44.170
Yeah, you cannot.

01:01:44.170 --> 01:01:47.200
And I've tried, like, I've tried, like
there's, there's gotta be some sort of

01:01:47.200 --> 01:01:49.060
a, some sort of a gadget that I need.

01:01:49.390 --> 01:01:53.750
And I would say almost all the time
gadgets disappoint me and just working

01:01:54.160 --> 01:01:58.210
wind, like working on your technique and
practicing is, is what, uh, achieves more

01:01:58.210 --> 01:02:00.640
successful hunts and less bad experiences.

01:02:00.640 --> 01:02:04.570
Like it was traumatizing as a young
guy to watch a deer get wounded with

01:02:04.600 --> 01:02:07.690
in your hunting party and then get,
you know, get the call or whatever.

01:02:07.695 --> 01:02:11.140
Yet we got one that's, it didn't go down
and we've gotta spend the next 24 hours

01:02:11.140 --> 01:02:12.670
looking like blood tracking this thing.

01:02:12.675 --> 01:02:12.750
Yeah.

01:02:13.660 --> 01:02:16.360
So shot placement is
everything, uh, and prac.

01:02:16.390 --> 01:02:18.550
And that becomes make your
rifle an extension of your

01:02:18.550 --> 01:02:20.830
arm and now you're a hunter.

01:02:21.430 --> 01:02:23.680
Uh, and that, that comes
right, right up your alley.

01:02:23.680 --> 01:02:24.640
Like take another course.

01:02:24.640 --> 01:02:25.030
Totally.

01:02:25.305 --> 01:02:26.415
When you've done taking a course.

01:02:26.415 --> 01:02:26.654
Yeah.

01:02:26.835 --> 01:02:29.295
If you don't know how to
approach it, ask the internet.

01:02:29.595 --> 01:02:34.035
Ask the internet for qualified, uh,
teachers, instructors, take a course and

01:02:34.035 --> 01:02:37.995
spend more, more money on your courses
and more money in your ammo than on

01:02:37.995 --> 01:02:41.625
your gun because you can buy a 1950s.

01:02:41.774 --> 01:02:47.835
A fricking World War II gun can shoot more
accurately and be more deadly, uh, than

01:02:47.835 --> 01:02:50.265
most hunters will ever in their career.

01:02:50.295 --> 01:02:53.955
Be able to shoot like so the gun
can out shoot me a 3 0 3 Brit can

01:02:53.955 --> 01:02:57.855
out shoot me and can be made to be
made more a accurate than my, my

01:02:57.855 --> 01:03:00.075
shaky, uh, hands will ever shoot.

01:03:00.080 --> 01:03:01.515
See, it's a super lethal tax driver.

01:03:01.535 --> 01:03:01.754
Yes.

01:03:02.055 --> 01:03:03.286
If you practice with it,

01:03:03.734 --> 01:03:05.475
Travis Bader: you've
nailed it on the head man.

01:03:05.565 --> 01:03:05.955
You brought Yeah.

01:03:05.955 --> 01:03:06.105
Love it.

01:03:06.674 --> 01:03:08.895
A a lot of really great
points up in there.

01:03:08.895 --> 01:03:12.045
And you know the old saying,
beware the man with one gun.

01:03:12.075 --> 01:03:12.435
Right.

01:03:12.884 --> 01:03:15.315
Which is now probably beware
the person with one gun.

01:03:15.345 --> 01:03:15.765
Correct.

01:03:15.765 --> 01:03:16.035
Yep.

01:03:16.214 --> 01:03:16.545
Right.

01:03:16.935 --> 01:03:19.484
Um, because they know how to use it.

01:03:20.505 --> 01:03:22.665
And you're, you're talking
about camouflage now.

01:03:22.725 --> 01:03:23.955
I had Guy Kramer on here.

01:03:23.955 --> 01:03:28.335
He does camouflage design for hundreds
of different armies around the world.

01:03:28.335 --> 01:03:32.505
And you know, we talking
about, uh, plaid with the, the

01:03:32.505 --> 01:03:34.245
original disbursement pattern.

01:03:34.785 --> 01:03:39.795
I was always raised that the best
camouflage you can wear is be still.

01:03:40.275 --> 01:03:40.485
Yep.

01:03:40.485 --> 01:03:43.965
So it's, uh, movement's
gonna be the number one thing

01:03:43.965 --> 01:03:45.795
that gives you away as well.

01:03:45.855 --> 01:03:48.705
Animals, all of a sudden you'll
hear something, you'll see

01:03:48.710 --> 01:03:51.795
something move, and that's bang,
that's what's gonna give 'em away.

01:03:51.795 --> 01:03:54.855
It's not their coloring or
how well camouflage they are.

01:03:54.860 --> 01:03:56.685
It's gonna be that movement
that gives 'em away.

01:03:56.690 --> 01:03:57.075
Man,

01:03:57.165 --> 01:04:00.735
Jeff Senger: I love that topic too, the
nuances in that, that, you're right.

01:04:00.735 --> 01:04:02.775
There's a, there's a, there's
a, there's a co there are

01:04:02.775 --> 01:04:06.345
companies designing camouflage
for humans, hunting other humans.

01:04:06.884 --> 01:04:07.215
Right.

01:04:07.305 --> 01:04:10.305
And don't make the mistake of thinking
that when you're hunting a sheep,

01:04:10.935 --> 01:04:13.005
it's got a brain like a human.

01:04:13.605 --> 01:04:18.105
It's like our, our visual acuity is
pathetic compared to a big horn sheet.

01:04:18.450 --> 01:04:18.660
Right.

01:04:18.930 --> 01:04:23.700
So the big horn sheep, by the time you,
if, if your barrier to entry was the

01:04:23.700 --> 01:04:27.299
$1,300, uh, I don't want to pick a brand.

01:04:27.299 --> 01:04:27.779
I don't really care.

01:04:27.779 --> 01:04:28.740
I don't even know the brands.

01:04:28.740 --> 01:04:28.741
Sure.

01:04:28.745 --> 01:04:29.339
But sure.

01:04:29.339 --> 01:04:33.390
A $1,300 outfit or costume that
you think that you, you're told by

01:04:33.390 --> 01:04:35.910
the salesman that you need to have
this costume to sneak up on sheep.

01:04:36.330 --> 01:04:36.629
Don't do that.

01:04:36.629 --> 01:04:38.310
And, and so, oh, I can't do it this year.

01:04:38.520 --> 01:04:39.029
You know what?

01:04:39.029 --> 01:04:39.839
Life is short?

01:04:39.990 --> 01:04:43.890
You put on your golf shirt or put on
your frigging khaki pants from the

01:04:43.890 --> 01:04:47.310
ga and, and get your thrift store
t-shirt or your hunter conservationist

01:04:47.310 --> 01:04:48.480
t-shirt that they sent you in the mail.

01:04:48.484 --> 01:04:48.990
Yeah, sure.

01:04:49.020 --> 01:04:51.029
And just get on your shoes and go out.

01:04:51.029 --> 01:04:54.210
You don't need the, a
solo $589 hunting boots.

01:04:54.210 --> 01:04:56.879
That's probably where I would spend my
money if I was spending 'em on clothes.

01:04:57.240 --> 01:04:57.330
Yeah.

01:04:57.330 --> 01:05:01.319
The interface between you and the
nature, the terrain are your feet.

01:05:01.859 --> 01:05:04.200
If, if you're doing it any other
way, you're probably doing it wrong.

01:05:04.259 --> 01:05:08.310
And then oftentimes, I mean, kawan
uh, read some was inspired by some

01:05:08.310 --> 01:05:11.819
indigenous techniques while we were bow
hunting and he would kick his shoes off.

01:05:12.359 --> 01:05:13.500
So that's really funny too.

01:05:13.500 --> 01:05:15.000
The quietest you can walk in nature Cool.

01:05:15.060 --> 01:05:16.529
Is in, is an effing muck.

01:05:16.950 --> 01:05:17.009
Yeah.

01:05:17.339 --> 01:05:18.660
Or so sock feet.

01:05:18.720 --> 01:05:21.031
And you get a lot of thistles in a
short period of time in your feet.

01:05:21.240 --> 01:05:21.839
But yes.

01:05:21.870 --> 01:05:21.960
Yes.

01:05:22.200 --> 01:05:25.950
If he was pulling up, he's pulling up on
a, on a feeding black bear on a cut line.

01:05:26.339 --> 01:05:26.670
Yeah.

01:05:26.819 --> 01:05:30.120
And, uh, he didn't wanna snap any twigs
and his, he had some really nice, really

01:05:30.120 --> 01:05:33.060
nice boots, but they would snap, you
couldn't feel anything through the

01:05:33.060 --> 01:05:34.290
bottom, through the soles of your feet.

01:05:34.290 --> 01:05:38.910
So if you wanna shorten that distance,
then probably barefoot or, uh, you know,

01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:42.670
like, like hide or leather, mlux mucks.

01:05:42.990 --> 01:05:43.350
Yeah.

01:05:43.770 --> 01:05:45.000
Or socks, heavy socks.

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:46.980
He, he burned through the
socks, uh, in no time.

01:05:47.220 --> 01:05:48.569
I would say they were,
they're garbage socks.

01:05:48.569 --> 01:05:52.350
But yeah, the final stock is often done
for bow hunters in sock sock footed.

01:05:52.620 --> 01:05:56.549
So the $589 shoes that I I, that I
invested in once I really liked on

01:05:56.549 --> 01:06:00.180
the, on the hard scrabble in mountain
hunting, um, but, but weren't even

01:06:00.180 --> 01:06:03.420
applicable, applicable across most
of the hunting that I do, which is

01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:04.859
white tails and, and black bears.

01:06:05.009 --> 01:06:05.130
Mm-hmm.

01:06:05.370 --> 01:06:08.220
Uh, because you get a tag for
three to five deer every year.

01:06:08.225 --> 01:06:11.970
And, and two, two bears with, with
a, with a two season hunt in Alberta

01:06:11.975 --> 01:06:13.290
Spring and, and, and in the fall.

01:06:13.290 --> 01:06:13.529
So.

01:06:13.980 --> 01:06:15.330
So, um,

01:06:16.544 --> 01:06:17.115
Travis Bader: Yeah, I know.

01:06:17.444 --> 01:06:19.995
You know, the, the big heavy
calibers, you're gonna have more

01:06:19.995 --> 01:06:21.645
noise, you're gonna have more recoil.

01:06:21.645 --> 01:06:25.185
And that's the two most offensive
things that a firearm's gonna produce.

01:06:25.814 --> 01:06:28.995
And second, you start flinching,
watch out, and then you got the

01:06:28.995 --> 01:06:32.055
adrenaline Russian when you're hunting
and you've been waiting forever and

01:06:32.055 --> 01:06:34.865
all of a sudden all this money and
time and effort that you put in to

01:06:34.865 --> 01:06:36.524
find your animal, and there it is.

01:06:36.524 --> 01:06:38.085
And it's only gonna be
here for a little bit.

01:06:38.089 --> 01:06:42.134
And the mind games that come up
with it, if you could eliminate the

01:06:42.140 --> 01:06:46.305
concern about where that round is
gonna land because you've practiced

01:06:46.305 --> 01:06:50.415
enough and you are comfortable with
the firearm, you're much more likely

01:06:50.415 --> 01:06:52.265
to have a successful harvest and hunt.

01:06:52.265 --> 01:06:52.464
Yeah.

01:06:52.605 --> 01:06:56.415
Jeff Senger: Rather than the alternative,
which is an absolute heartbreak.

01:06:56.564 --> 01:07:02.205
Like I, uh, wounded a moose when I was
17 years old with a 3 0 8 on a shot

01:07:02.205 --> 01:07:03.825
that I shouldn't have taken way too far.

01:07:04.395 --> 01:07:06.165
Uh, I misjudged the range.

01:07:06.225 --> 01:07:10.845
It was a snowy trail and it was like, How
nature can sometimes do that you like,

01:07:10.845 --> 01:07:12.615
that was way further than I thought.

01:07:12.615 --> 01:07:17.595
So Uhhuh, I was reaching too far with an
inadequate rifle because I hadn't read

01:07:17.595 --> 01:07:19.605
enough about terminal, uh, ballistics.

01:07:19.665 --> 01:07:19.755
Mm-hmm.

01:07:20.055 --> 01:07:25.965
And I, I lost sleep for not just the, not
just that night, uh, but the, you know,

01:07:25.965 --> 01:07:29.475
and then I, and I sweat my nuts off the
whole next day in waist deep snow trying

01:07:29.475 --> 01:07:31.185
to, trying to pick up, pick up blood.

01:07:31.185 --> 01:07:34.515
Like it was a miserable amount of
work to do honor to this majestic

01:07:34.515 --> 01:07:36.015
king of the forest that I wounded.

01:07:36.405 --> 01:07:40.845
Uh, he, he laid down and made a little ice
bed, a little ice, uh, bed where he slept

01:07:40.845 --> 01:07:42.435
and then he healed up and walked off.

01:07:42.675 --> 01:07:45.305
He wasn't gonna have a fun
next couple of months when the

01:07:45.305 --> 01:07:47.235
wolves No, uh, tore 'em apart.

01:07:47.385 --> 01:07:51.555
And I felt so guilty that it w that
I wish I could go back and undo that.

01:07:51.555 --> 01:07:55.125
And I had, I carry that guilt around for
your whole life just by not being prepared

01:07:55.305 --> 01:07:59.205
and sort of, Uh, but this was a 3 0 8
though, was, it was a hand-me-down gun,

01:07:59.205 --> 01:08:01.245
so the gun was capable of killing a moose.

01:08:01.245 --> 01:08:05.085
But my inadequacy in estimating range is
something I have to carry around forever.

01:08:05.085 --> 01:08:07.785
And I wouldn't wish that on any young
hunter because it could turn you

01:08:07.785 --> 01:08:11.415
off the sport entirely and actually
put a stink on, on the sport.

01:08:11.745 --> 01:08:13.065
Your perception of the sport.

01:08:13.065 --> 01:08:16.274
Well, that, that's what must what
everyone must do because everyone

01:08:16.274 --> 01:08:19.635
just go, goes out and later on
today, I want to have a dead moose.

01:08:19.639 --> 01:08:22.035
And it's like, man time at the range.

01:08:22.095 --> 01:08:25.694
Uh, time on courses and time reading
about, uh, ballistics is, is is

01:08:25.700 --> 01:08:30.224
better spent than than time like,
um, uh, shopping for the, for,

01:08:30.404 --> 01:08:32.865
you know, time spent shopping.

01:08:32.865 --> 01:08:35.055
But I think that, yeah, funding has
kind of, it's kind of been degraded

01:08:35.055 --> 01:08:38.774
to a, a little bit too much shopping
and not a, not enough time spent

01:08:38.774 --> 01:08:41.835
with knowledgeable, not knowledgeable
folks that either are part of your

01:08:41.835 --> 01:08:43.365
family or, or building that community.

01:08:43.365 --> 01:08:48.495
And that's why I think that I was drawn
to you and to Silvercore  because man,

01:08:48.495 --> 01:08:52.014
we, we talked about it, uh, before, uh,
we'd gone live or, or live recording.

01:08:52.740 --> 01:08:57.210
That, that is so cool that you in, in
your niche and your community and your

01:08:57.210 --> 01:09:03.390
province, you decided I can really add
value if we can help educate, hunter,

01:09:03.395 --> 01:09:05.700
curious or like outdoor curious folks.

01:09:05.705 --> 01:09:05.740
Sure.

01:09:05.740 --> 01:09:05.980
Yeah.

01:09:06.240 --> 01:09:08.970
Uh, that didn't have the privilege
of having someone, a member of

01:09:08.970 --> 01:09:11.500
the family, uh, that, that, that
had built that tradition as,

01:09:11.500 --> 01:09:13.020
as part of a family tradition.

01:09:13.025 --> 01:09:13.300
Yeah.

01:09:13.300 --> 01:09:18.060
Um, so you, your Silver Corps has, I
would argue, has, has avoided wounding

01:09:18.060 --> 01:09:22.350
more animals than, than, than any
Cabelas or, uh, or BassPro ever has.

01:09:23.010 --> 01:09:25.319
Travis Bader: Well, and even just
by having these conversations right

01:09:25.319 --> 01:09:28.319
now, people are learning from your
experience and what you've been

01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:34.020
carrying with yourself from that, uh,
incorrect distance estimation and the

01:09:34.020 --> 01:09:37.770
shot placement and, and they're logging
these things in the back of their

01:09:37.775 --> 01:09:39.600
mind thinking, okay, hold on a second.

01:09:39.779 --> 01:09:41.640
Here's some tips I can use to get on out.

01:09:41.645 --> 01:09:43.080
And it's absolutely free.

01:09:43.080 --> 01:09:45.960
So this level of accessible
mentorship, which is something that

01:09:45.960 --> 01:09:51.120
we really pride ourself on is, is so
invaluable to building our community.

01:09:51.630 --> 01:09:52.200
Jeff Senger: Yeah, I love it.

01:09:52.200 --> 01:09:52.920
I wrote that down.

01:09:52.920 --> 01:09:55.590
The accessible, uh,
mentorship like catchphrase.

01:09:55.590 --> 01:09:57.300
And I think it's just, it's just genius.

01:09:57.900 --> 01:10:00.060
And thank, thank you for technology.

01:10:00.360 --> 01:10:02.820
Thank you for learning the technology
to be, to be able to deliver

01:10:02.820 --> 01:10:04.530
this, but it's inexpensive to do.

01:10:04.740 --> 01:10:08.460
And you get to sit around a campfire
with a sober at this point, Jeff

01:10:08.465 --> 01:10:09.661
Singer, not a, not a drunken hunter.

01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:12.870
Um, sometimes there's
some, there's some whiskey.

01:10:12.870 --> 01:10:13.320
Sometimes.

01:10:13.325 --> 01:10:15.270
Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes
it's been known to happen.

01:10:15.570 --> 01:10:16.200
Yeah.

01:10:16.200 --> 01:10:18.690
And I like whiskey out of
camp, just to be clear.

01:10:18.690 --> 01:10:18.750
Yeah.

01:10:18.780 --> 01:10:20.970
Like, it's, it's not,
it's not the funnest.

01:10:20.970 --> 01:10:23.610
And we watched people, uh,
in, in, in the family, in the

01:10:23.615 --> 01:10:25.020
community, go down to alcohol.

01:10:25.025 --> 01:10:28.380
And alcoholism isn't, it doesn't mix
very well, but if you're having a social

01:10:28.380 --> 01:10:31.740
beverage, th these conversations I'm
saying are only accessible a lot of

01:10:31.740 --> 01:10:36.390
times around the dinner table or around
the campfire, uh, where you start BSing.

01:10:36.480 --> 01:10:39.990
And I think thanks to the technology
and, and, and the investment into, into

01:10:39.990 --> 01:10:42.960
Silvercore  and just the investment of
your time really to build the podcast

01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:46.660
and making that accessible, then, uh,
I, I really do think that you're saving.

01:10:47.519 --> 01:10:52.410
Uh, untold tortures, the anguish
of the soul of the young person who

01:10:52.410 --> 01:10:55.590
goes out and wounds a deer and can't
find it and, and, and just, and

01:10:55.595 --> 01:10:57.930
wants to rethink their entire life.

01:10:58.380 --> 01:11:01.230
Uh, and they, they, they, they, they
go, you know, into deep veganism

01:11:01.230 --> 01:11:03.330
after that horrible event or whatever.

01:11:03.420 --> 01:11:03.510
Mm-hmm.

01:11:03.750 --> 01:11:04.559
And then also, yeah.

01:11:04.590 --> 01:11:04.950
Yeah.

01:11:04.955 --> 01:11:09.990
And, uh, for the person and then
also the horrific end, not laughing,

01:11:10.019 --> 01:11:11.370
the horrific end for the animal.

01:11:11.370 --> 01:11:11.460
Right.

01:11:11.490 --> 01:11:15.120
Like with his, with his jaw shot off
because, uh, because the guy didn't,

01:11:15.120 --> 01:11:18.000
or the, the, the shooter didn't know
where to, where to place the crossers,

01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:21.900
how to adjust for wind or, or couldn't
get 10 yards closer because they, they

01:11:21.900 --> 01:11:25.740
just never heard Travis badder talk
about kicking his shoes off in the

01:11:25.740 --> 01:11:27.300
last 10 yards or something like that.

01:11:27.300 --> 01:11:27.900
So, sure.

01:11:28.080 --> 01:11:28.349
Yeah.

01:11:28.410 --> 01:11:30.389
Shared experience is so, so important.

01:11:31.725 --> 01:11:33.165
Travis Bader: So, is there
anything else we should be?

01:11:33.285 --> 01:11:36.165
I, I've got, honestly,
I've, I, I can hold 'em up.

01:11:36.165 --> 01:11:39.645
I got so many different notes and
questions, but I'm also conscious of the

01:11:39.645 --> 01:11:44.505
time and I'm thinking maybe, uh, maybe
we should continue a conversation in the

01:11:44.505 --> 01:11:47.205
future and involve the community as well.

01:11:47.205 --> 01:11:48.916
See if there's other questions
and things that come up.

01:11:49.015 --> 01:11:51.825
But is there anything else that
we should be talking about before

01:11:51.825 --> 01:11:53.475
we kinda look at wrapping this up?

01:11:55.365 --> 01:11:58.215
Jeff Senger: No, I mean, I, I think
that's a great idea, a multi-form.

01:11:58.225 --> 01:12:00.825
I, I watched some of your podcasts
before and I think they're great where

01:12:00.830 --> 01:12:06.615
you have, uh, uh, um, questions come
in, uh, you know, you know, a viewer,

01:12:06.615 --> 01:12:08.145
I guess we call 'em viewer or listener.

01:12:08.145 --> 01:12:08.345
Sure, yeah.

01:12:08.345 --> 01:12:11.295
Calls in with call, calls in with
questions or, or they, they, they ask

01:12:11.295 --> 01:12:14.685
their questions, uh, uh, uh, prior to
taping, and then we just answer some

01:12:14.685 --> 01:12:19.995
questions like, yeah, I would love to
know what is, uh, what the average, you

01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:24.225
know, new hunter, your average viewer,
uh, what's their burning question?

01:12:24.230 --> 01:12:26.985
They want to ask kind of an old crusty
guy, but that, that has harvested

01:12:26.985 --> 01:12:28.845
quite a few, quite a few animals.

01:12:29.265 --> 01:12:29.685
Um, so.

01:12:30.345 --> 01:12:32.955
And then to put to, I think that's
unimportant, that's important too, is

01:12:32.955 --> 01:12:35.535
like, know who you're getting advice from.

01:12:35.804 --> 01:12:35.894
Mm-hmm.

01:12:36.139 --> 01:12:38.355
I think there are a lot of people that
would offer advice that actually haven't

01:12:38.355 --> 01:12:42.675
done a lot of hunting, but they're kind
of, they're basing their lives on being,

01:12:42.705 --> 01:12:46.905
um, there's an, there's the influencer
class folks that love to influence, but

01:12:46.905 --> 01:12:50.804
so they, they talk the talk and they sound
real salesy, but they haven't done a lot.

01:12:50.804 --> 01:12:51.644
Mm-hmm.

01:12:51.705 --> 01:12:55.965
Uh, so, and so just to put
it, this isn't a brag, I think

01:12:55.965 --> 01:13:01.215
probably 10 or 12 moose I've killed
probably 60 to 95 deer in mm-hmm.

01:13:01.455 --> 01:13:02.804
Since hunting since I was five.

01:13:03.315 --> 01:13:05.985
Uh, probably 15 or 20 black bears.

01:13:06.375 --> 01:13:09.045
And then, I don't know,
uh, geese and ducks.

01:13:09.045 --> 01:13:09.735
Countless geese.

01:13:09.740 --> 01:13:11.684
Ducks and gross, I guess
like in the hundreds.

01:13:11.715 --> 01:13:14.085
But, but so, so like, that's great.

01:13:14.115 --> 01:13:15.885
I'm not a guide, not an outfitter.

01:13:15.945 --> 01:13:20.264
Uh, nothing significantly of,
uh, like trophy size animals.

01:13:20.295 --> 01:13:20.474
Mm-hmm.

01:13:21.135 --> 01:13:23.835
Um, so I'm not a trophy hunter,
but I did mount a big deer.

01:13:24.825 --> 01:13:28.335
Um, uh, that was like 170 a meal.

01:13:28.335 --> 01:13:30.135
Deer 170 inch class year.

01:13:30.135 --> 01:13:30.335
Mm-hmm.

01:13:30.341 --> 01:13:33.555
So not a trophy hunter, but I've worked,
worked with and gone hunting with

01:13:33.555 --> 01:13:36.975
guys that pass animals steady because
they're looking for the next biggest.

01:13:37.095 --> 01:13:41.255
So like I know that weird fancy, that
sort of new, that little subset segment

01:13:41.595 --> 01:13:44.385
of, of hunters that'll say only if it's
bigger than the one I already have.

01:13:44.625 --> 01:13:46.575
And I think that's amazing
discipline actually.

01:13:46.575 --> 01:13:49.605
I, I like to pull the trigger, I
like to pull the trigger and do the

01:13:49.605 --> 01:13:51.345
butchery, uh, to put meat in the freezer.

01:13:51.345 --> 01:13:55.395
So we have a variety of proteins to eat,
uh, and more than, uh, antlers on the

01:13:55.400 --> 01:13:59.415
wall because I, we, we just couldn't
afford to taxidermy, you know, everything.

01:13:59.925 --> 01:14:03.405
Uh, and it's a more patient person
than me to, to shoot something

01:14:03.405 --> 01:14:04.975
that's just on, on bigness.

01:14:05.655 --> 01:14:08.355
Um, so anyway, that, that's just,
we're kind of putting it out there

01:14:08.360 --> 01:14:11.895
that people who have hunted are
useful to get information on hunting.

01:14:12.105 --> 01:14:12.915
People have won.

01:14:13.299 --> 01:14:17.769
Uh, gong Bang competitions that is
precision shooters that are, they're a

01:14:17.769 --> 01:14:19.990
award-winning Chuck Norris's out there.

01:14:20.290 --> 01:14:20.410
Yeah.

01:14:20.410 --> 01:14:26.139
That are so good and knowledgeable about,
uh, about precision shooting that I love

01:14:26.139 --> 01:14:30.580
to listen to those folks, uh, if they've
sort, not just their, not just because

01:14:30.580 --> 01:14:34.299
they're influencers or, or their, their,
their verbal fire hoses, the, like myself.

01:14:34.660 --> 01:14:38.200
Um, but, but guys that really think
a lot about get, you know, like

01:14:38.200 --> 01:14:42.460
about closing those, closing those
distances on the paper at 400 yard or

01:14:42.670 --> 01:14:44.860
at competition yards thousand yards.

01:14:45.099 --> 01:14:46.299
That's fascinating to me.

01:14:46.750 --> 01:14:50.652
Um, even if I don't, uh, even if
it's not a, uh, a pursuit that I

01:14:50.656 --> 01:14:54.639
wish to, to, to, to, to chase, uh,
their tips and tricks can make you

01:14:54.639 --> 01:14:56.049
a better short distance hunter.

01:14:56.440 --> 01:15:00.040
Uh, and also the archery world, man, us,
us flirting with or dipping our little

01:15:00.040 --> 01:15:02.920
pinky pose in, into compound archery.

01:15:03.190 --> 01:15:03.280
Mm-hmm.

01:15:03.519 --> 01:15:08.379
Ha When the sea, the arch, when rifles
opened up, uh, Kevin and I could just.

01:15:09.285 --> 01:15:13.155
We could just walk into a, a
cut block and pick an animal and

01:15:13.155 --> 01:15:14.415
then walk up to it and shoot it.

01:15:14.445 --> 01:15:17.625
Because we had spent so much time
trying to get, trying to get within

01:15:17.894 --> 01:15:22.184
like a lethal range of 40 yards of
bull moose and, and or, and or deer.

01:15:22.545 --> 01:15:22.875
Yeah.

01:15:22.875 --> 01:15:25.844
Uh, and, and then so, so the techniques
and the skills that we picked up, sort

01:15:25.849 --> 01:15:29.415
of just from the archery craft, we got
really keen during rifle season and had a

01:15:29.415 --> 01:15:32.025
lot of, uh, short distance humane kills.

01:15:32.025 --> 01:15:33.884
And that was like we
achieved some success.

01:15:34.304 --> 01:15:35.565
Uh, we felt really good about ourselves.

01:15:35.565 --> 01:15:37.724
So, you know, interested in knowing,

01:15:37.785 --> 01:15:38.384
Travis Bader: sorry, go ahead.

01:15:38.389 --> 01:15:41.174
You, you bring up a good point and
one thing that you talked about, let's

01:15:41.174 --> 01:15:46.184
say, let's say trophy hunting and
there's negative connotations that can

01:15:46.184 --> 01:15:49.875
be associated with, I'm doing my air
brackets, trophy hunting, or maybe a

01:15:49.875 --> 01:15:53.174
better way to call that is selective
hunting, because you're still using the

01:15:53.174 --> 01:15:54.945
animal, you're using every part of it.

01:15:55.455 --> 01:15:59.835
Um, for peop, for some people
there's an ego side of it.

01:15:59.839 --> 01:16:02.355
They gotta have the biggest and
the best or whatever it might be.

01:16:03.255 --> 01:16:07.094
But what I've seen in people, which
I think is kind of a neat phenomena,

01:16:07.785 --> 01:16:10.635
Is they see an animal on day one.

01:16:10.965 --> 01:16:14.355
They don't want to take that animal
on day one because they enjoy the

01:16:14.355 --> 01:16:16.095
process of hunting and everything.

01:16:16.155 --> 01:16:20.925
They enjoy being outside the camaraderie,
the sitting around the campfire, the

01:16:21.255 --> 01:16:22.995
all the learning you do in nature.

01:16:22.995 --> 01:16:25.485
And maybe they go home skunk
cuz that's the only animal

01:16:25.725 --> 01:16:27.045
they see for the entire time.

01:16:27.045 --> 01:16:29.985
They're, that they're out there, but
they're willing to pass up on that

01:16:29.985 --> 01:16:34.635
animal because it's not just about
the kill or the, let's say the meat.

01:16:34.635 --> 01:16:37.875
It's more about the holistic experience
that they're, they're getting outta

01:16:37.875 --> 01:16:40.365
this and they want to see that extended.

01:16:40.605 --> 01:16:43.425
So that's, yeah, it's just
sort of another side to that.

01:16:43.430 --> 01:16:46.095
And I'm gonna do the air
bracket's, maybe selective hunting.

01:16:46.635 --> 01:16:50.115
Jeff Senger: Yeah, no, I agree totally
with, with the, our experience also.

01:16:50.115 --> 01:16:50.355
Yeah.

01:16:50.515 --> 01:16:54.420
That, that, that, um, I think that's
a clear point or an important point

01:16:54.420 --> 01:16:58.740
to drive home is that, uh, our
enjoyment doesn't come from the kill.

01:16:58.740 --> 01:17:01.980
I mean, you can be proud of a harvest
and you can be pr like pat yourself

01:17:01.980 --> 01:17:03.480
on the back for a job well done.

01:17:03.780 --> 01:17:03.870
Mm-hmm.

01:17:04.115 --> 01:17:07.440
And also supplying your food
and or providing for your, your,

01:17:07.590 --> 01:17:10.800
your protein for the next, uh,
month or the next year, whatever.

01:17:10.800 --> 01:17:11.400
That's all good.

01:17:11.970 --> 01:17:14.220
But yeah, I think the greatest
feeling of success coming is from

01:17:14.220 --> 01:17:16.110
hanging out with really great friends.

01:17:16.470 --> 01:17:19.380
Um, immersing in nature, the
sorts of things that happen

01:17:19.380 --> 01:17:21.300
only on, on, on hunting trips.

01:17:21.300 --> 01:17:24.270
Like watching the sun come up and
the sun go down, or the forest, the

01:17:24.270 --> 01:17:26.070
forest go quiet when it accepts you.

01:17:26.270 --> 01:17:26.490
Yes.

01:17:27.470 --> 01:17:27.970
That's cool.

01:17:28.120 --> 01:17:28.410
Yeah.

01:17:28.410 --> 01:17:28.690
Yeah.

01:17:29.130 --> 01:17:32.070
I, it's a, it's a, all these little
miracles, the little, the, the,

01:17:32.070 --> 01:17:35.040
the minor miracles that you get to
experience by just being in nature

01:17:35.130 --> 01:17:40.110
and sort of becoming one with it as,
as a predator or predator curious.

01:17:40.560 --> 01:17:40.710
Mm-hmm.

01:17:40.980 --> 01:17:42.600
If you just pass, if you
pass up opportunities.

01:17:43.530 --> 01:17:45.420
Um, but yeah, that's, that's a ton of fun.

01:17:45.450 --> 01:17:50.220
So, Yeah, I look forward to, uh, more
chats and I look forward to sort of

01:17:50.220 --> 01:17:55.440
connecting with, uh, younger, younger
hunters or, or, or hunters with more

01:17:55.440 --> 01:17:59.010
experience, but different experiences,
uh, through this platform and others

01:17:59.010 --> 01:18:03.990
through social media and things, uh, to
try and, uh, you know, share experiences

01:18:03.995 --> 01:18:08.700
to increase success and just increase that
feeling of camaraderie, uh, electronically

01:18:08.700 --> 01:18:09.870
as, as well as in the field.

01:18:10.740 --> 01:18:13.050
Travis Bader: Jeff, I absolutely
love the conversation.

01:18:13.260 --> 01:18:16.170
Thank you so much for being
on the Silvercore Podcast.

01:18:16.710 --> 01:18:17.940
Jeff Senger: Thank you
for including me, Travis.

01:18:17.945 --> 01:18:18.960
This is a great thing you're doing here.