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Welcome to Wake Up Excited.

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In this episode I talk
with Jessica Hische.

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Jessica is a creative powerhouse.

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She's created an illustrated children's
books, designed postage stamps,

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done lettering for West Anderson
movies, improved countless logos,

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and her new venture is invoicing
and payment software for  creative

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professionals called Studio Works.

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Jessica and I go way back and
from the moment I met her, I

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knew we were kindred spirits.

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She is energetic and multidisciplinary
excitable, and is one of the few people

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that I really feel shares my weird
blend of both sincerity and goofiness.

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So, uh, I loved our conversation.

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We discussed a lot of things.

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We talked about using positivity
and enthusiasm to fight all the

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negativity engulfing our world.

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We talked about ADHD and mental health.

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We talked about balancing our
personal responsibilities with our

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responsibilities to the world at large.

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We talked about engaging with and
improving your local community.

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We talked about creativity,
breadth, and depth and creativity

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over time, and a whole lot more.

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Before we get into our conversation,
I wanted to say that Wake Up

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Excited is a real labor of love
and is totally self-funded.

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So if you enjoy these conversations
and you want to support the

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show, support me and my work.

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I'd love it if you checked out our
online courses bradfrost.com/courses.

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We have courses on design tokens, atomic
design with a whole bunch more on the way.

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And we're really committed to helping
the world's designers and developers

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and anyone making websites and
apps really level up their skills.

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So I'd love it if you checked out
our courses at bradfrost.com/courses.

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Now, without further ado, here's my
conversation with Jessica Hische.

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Brad: Jessica.

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Hi.

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Jessica Hische: How's it going?

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Brad: to converse?

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Jessica Hische: I am ready to converse.

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Brad: what are you excited about?

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What are, what has you waking up excited?

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What'd you wake up excited
this morning about?

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Jessica Hische: Well, a couple of things.

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I went skiing this
weekend and it was epic.

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And now I am really excited to be a skier.

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Um, I skied growing up and I haven't
really had a chance to go very much

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'cause I have three children and they have
varying degrees of enthusiasm for sport.

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Uh, but they all, all three of 'em
did all day lessons and they all

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hung out and me and Russ got to ski
all day for two whole days in a row.

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And I was feeling super cool about
it and it made me wanna go out

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and I'm gonna buy myself skis.

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I'm a grownup.

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I don't change sizes
now so I can own skis.

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And I bought season passes for next year.

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'cause they're super cheap if
you buy them the year before.

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And yeah, so that's one thing that's my
li that's my life thing I'm excited about.

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my work thing I'm excited about is, um.

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I've been building this thing called
Studio Works with my friend Chris Shiflet.

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And, uh, Sean and Nick are
two super bro developer folks.

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And, uh, it's been epic and really fun
to work on and I feel like my brain

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is now, I'm like, you know that meme
where it's like the like shriveled

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head guy and then it's bigger and
then it's like self-actualization guy.

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I feel like that's.

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Me, uh, and uh, and then I launched
this week a, online community

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for it that I didn't tell anyone
about before I launched it.

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So it was like a surprise.

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And that's been super fun.

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And there's already like three,
like almost 400 people in it and

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it's been really active and we're
doing like Zoom hangs and people are

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sharing resources and posting events
and stuff and it's really cool.

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I'm just really happy.

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So I just wanna get a bunch of
students in there so I can just be

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everybody's big sister and just be
answering all their little questions

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Brad: Beautiful.

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You figured it out.

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Jessica Hische: I know, everyone's
like, what do you do to mentor people?

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And my answer is always very wishy-washy
and being like, well, I talk at

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conferences and I answer people's emails.

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And so, uh, I feel like now I can
have a bit more of a direct line

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towards helping people, which is nice.

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I am also excited to just make a very
casual, fun place to hang out on the

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internet so that it doesn't have to
be in the places where everyone feels

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they have to be in performative mode.

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cause there's not really
good casual hangs.

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And you know, even on all the fun,
uh, texty places like Blue Sky and

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all that, everyone's like kind of
bummed out and wants to talk about

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being bummed out and wants to talk
about being worried about stuff.

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And I just wanna hang out and not
be bummed out for a little while.

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That's my goal.

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Brad: if I were to run my own
conversations through an AI modeler and

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to make it sound like Jessica Hische I
would say the exact same thing as you.

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There's a reason why I wanted you to
come on this show, because I think

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we're wired very, very, very similarly.

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I think that that, uh, our, our
conversations that have now spanned.

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Over, I think a decade or no, like

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Jessica Hische: Well, probably close.

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Probably close to two decades.

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Yeah.

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Brad: what's wild is
what you just described.

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I wrestle with this and I'm curious to
get your take on it because I wrestle

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with it because on one hand everything
you just described sounds almost

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like charmingly, simple and naive.

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But I think we understand
that there is a deep, level of

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profundity underneath all of that,

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Jessica Hische: my big like ethos of
the times and has been, you know, since

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2016 basically is we all, especially
us the like internet generation.

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I got really excited about always
be thinking on like a global

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scale, like global community,
global reach, global everything.

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But, and then when you think about
problems in the world, you're

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always thinking like, we need to
attack it from like the top down.

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And then that just like is so intimidating
and doesn't really work and mostly just

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makes people crumble and feel upset
and everybody forgets that actually

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just like the small positive things
that you can do, including just like

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protecting your own mental health and
helping other people protect theirs.

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That ends up making an actual
difference in the world because

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people that are crushed by.

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Depressing things or full of anxiety
about the estate of everything.

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What they don't do is take
any action to make it better.

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They just crawl into a hole and feel bad.

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And that's, I mean, that's kind of the
default way to do it, but if you feel

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like resort like full of resources
and you feel capable, you're much

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more likely to go, oh man, you know,
like, I'm done with my work right now.

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What can I do to like do a helpful
thing or make a thing that like impacts

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other people or donate to a thing or
volunteer for a thing or whatever.

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Like you need to feel whole
in order to do those things.

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And so I think it's actually just
really important to make people focus

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on positive local community stuff
instead of just spending all of their

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time looking at the big picture doom
and gloom, because there's always big

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picture doom and gloom to look at.

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Brad: Yeah.

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And, and that big picture, doom and
gloom is a relatively new phenomenon.

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Like the fact that in between all of
our cat memes are slotted in pictures

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of a children's hospital getting
bombed and then here's another cat

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meme, like, like it's messed up.

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It's like super messed up.

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So we have it, it's kind of no wonder
why we are so scrambled up and, and

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just absolutely ripped apart mentally,
and that, that that guilt, that that

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overwhelming crushing guilt that
just is nothing but shed energy.

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It just vibrates out.

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It just burns off into the ether.

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That's like, that's how I view it.

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It's just this, this anxious, vibrating
energy that doesn't go anywhere.

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It doesn't do anything.

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It's just, it's

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Jessica Hische: Totally.

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Yeah.

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Brad: It's

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Jessica Hische: I mean, I think we
all, we all like know people and

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like family members that like watch
too much news and they like see it

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as a positive to be so informed.

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But to me it's like if that
information is not translating

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to action, like what is it doing?

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You know, like if all you're doing
is absorbing all the ills of the

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world and it's not translating
to action, you're basically just

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like punishing yourself, you know?

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So it's almost like you have to
control what you let in so that you

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can actually still maintain the ability
to do something about it, you know?

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I was at an event recently called
um, Paradiso, which is put on

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by one of the founders of Off.

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Stefan Sagmeister gave a talk there, and
I've seen him talk a million, billion

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times, but it was a talk about, a
recent, like project sabbatical project

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that he did called now is better.

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and he basically just because so many
people around him were talking about

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how we're living in terrible times
and all these terrible things were

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happening, he decided to sort of do a
research project about like, what is

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terrible, like, like, you know, like.

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Let's look at the data
of like all of the stuff.

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And it basically is just like, now
is the best possible time to exist.

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And the thing that was really
interesting about it is he was on

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like a, uh, a podcast or like the news
interview or something and they were

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like, yeah, but how do you, people
in Ukraine probably feel about that?

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And he was like, yeah, well what if
you're being like actively bombed?

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Obviously, like it's hard to
say like, now's the best time.

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But what ended up happening is
a bunch of folks in the Ukraine

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reached out to him and asked him
to like put on a show of this work.

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And he said of all of the places
that the show ended up being, the

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best response was in the Ukraine.

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'cause they just like needed
hope and positivity so much.

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And so, I mean that's just like amazing.

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Like, I mean, it's one data
point, but it's like really good

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proof that like when you're.

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You're the most receptive to like
hope when you're going through

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tough stuff, you know, like that's
when you really reach for it.

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That's why people get religious when
they get cancer and all kinds of stuff.

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You're like reaching out for like, what
is the positive I can find in this?

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Brad: and, and we need to be of the
positive of the other end of the spectrum.

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I feel like there's just
been this overwhelming.

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Focus the negative and even in the, the
resistance to one side of the negative,

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it's all, it continues to be negative.

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and there's this, we need to be
reminded of like fun and the joy and

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the, the great things in life and,
and laughter and, and all of, and

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music and, and all of these things.

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And deprive ourselves or we're like, I,
I feel like the overwhelming majority

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of people are like waiting for moment
of calm to, to be able to claim

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that or to be able to pursue that.

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And it's like it ain't
coming like you, it like,

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Jessica Hische: Yeah.

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Brad: say that there aren't mac macro
level like ebbs and flows to things, but

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like you have to create that for yourself.

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No one else is going to give
you permission to do that.

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And I feel like people like, like us.

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that is our kind of like mission or duty
is to kind of help remind people of that.

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I don't know if

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Jessica Hische: Yeah.

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Brad: same, but

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Jessica Hische: Oh, totally.

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there's two things.

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One, I've been like workshopping
the right way to say this quote, it

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stems from that thing of Not being a
person who's capable of actually being

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like an on the ground world saver.

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You know what I mean?

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Like, I have three little kids.

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I can't go to the protests and I
can't be like, you know, doing a

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lot of really active stuff, and I'm
also like, des design feels like a

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selfish discipline where you're just
like helping people sell things.

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You know?

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Like it's all, it's all that.

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but the, the thing that I, that I return
to, which is very similar to what you're

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talking about, is, and this is the kind
of quote that I'm working on, uh, which

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is that some people are born to save
the world and some people are born to

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show us why the world is worth saving.

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And so it's like the same thing of like,
you need to see the beauty in the world

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in order to have the, like, fortitude to
save it and, and the desire to save it.

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'cause why would you
wanna save a shitty place?

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You know, like you have to believe
this is a good place to save it.

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Brad: there's So, I, I love that.

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I love that.

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You good, good work shopping
there that, no, no notes.

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Jessica Hische: There's also, you
know, I, this is a weird thing,

227
00:13:39,241 --> 00:13:45,901
but I have a strange appreciation
for social media algorithms now.

228
00:13:46,236 --> 00:13:49,176
you know, like everybody hates the
algorithm, and the algorithm destroys

229
00:13:49,176 --> 00:13:50,166
our lives and blah, blah, blah, blah.

230
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But for me,

231
00:13:51,648 --> 00:13:52,068
Brad: Mm-hmm.

232
00:13:52,296 --> 00:13:56,406
Jessica Hische: thing that was a
weird side effect of the algorithm is

233
00:13:56,406 --> 00:13:59,676
that the algorithm favors negativity.

234
00:14:00,006 --> 00:14:00,396
Right.

235
00:14:00,708 --> 00:14:04,098
if you post about negative stuff, it's
much more likely to pop to the top

236
00:14:04,098 --> 00:14:07,728
of the charts just because it's like
people wanna know about negative stuff.

237
00:14:07,728 --> 00:14:11,118
We just have this like innate thing
of like disaster looking and whatever.

238
00:14:11,628 --> 00:14:17,028
And what happened is in early internet,
everyone saw everything that you said.

239
00:14:17,028 --> 00:14:20,598
So if you posted 10 things and
eight of them were positive and two

240
00:14:20,598 --> 00:14:23,688
of them were negative, people got
a really good understanding about

241
00:14:23,688 --> 00:14:25,098
what your life was like, right?

242
00:14:25,458 --> 00:14:30,138
But now if you post those same 10
things, the likelihood of people

243
00:14:30,138 --> 00:14:32,388
seeing the positive stuff is way less.

244
00:14:32,538 --> 00:14:35,418
So they're much more likely to see
the negative stuff and then get a

245
00:14:35,418 --> 00:14:38,388
false idea of what your reality is.

246
00:14:38,628 --> 00:14:42,408
So it actually changes the way that you.

247
00:14:43,023 --> 00:14:47,373
Look at the things that you share
because you're like, oh, if I share

248
00:14:47,373 --> 00:14:51,693
these negative things too often or
you know, like I won't say at all.

249
00:14:51,723 --> 00:14:54,963
'cause I think it's important to
share some, but it actually will

250
00:14:54,963 --> 00:15:00,033
end up not only coloring your view
of your own life, but also coloring

251
00:15:00,033 --> 00:15:01,503
other people's view of your life.

252
00:15:01,563 --> 00:15:06,873
And I think that it sort of forces
you into this thing of looking at all

253
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the positives and posting those, but
not necessarily in like a, a way that

254
00:15:12,693 --> 00:15:15,873
needs to be about projecting a falsity.

255
00:15:15,933 --> 00:15:19,653
You know, it's actually about
projecting what is the truth.

256
00:15:19,743 --> 00:15:24,423
'cause the truth is actually that you
had an overwhelming positive amount

257
00:15:24,423 --> 00:15:27,903
of stuff to say, and the negative
stuff was a small portion of that.

258
00:15:28,323 --> 00:15:31,353
And so it makes you actually
notice that a lot more.

259
00:15:31,841 --> 00:15:36,311
Brad: you're describing an active
resistance to the affordances

260
00:15:36,341 --> 00:15:38,051
of these algorithms, right?

261
00:15:38,051 --> 00:15:43,241
You, you are like, you are like, I will
show them, and, and you're using it as

262
00:15:43,241 --> 00:15:49,871
a, as a lens to be more conscious of
your actions rather than just falling

263
00:15:49,871 --> 00:15:55,241
prey to the affordances of those things,
which is just, yeah, the negativity,

264
00:15:55,241 --> 00:15:59,921
snowball, and like, yeah, we're all
gonna dog pile on to, to get out there

265
00:15:59,921 --> 00:16:10,991
and throw an overwhelmingly unabashed,
enthusiastic, fun, funny thing that's a

266
00:16:10,991 --> 00:16:13,961
freaking act of resistance right there.

267
00:16:14,122 --> 00:16:16,642
Jessica Hische: I feel when
you say like, enthusiasm too.

268
00:16:16,642 --> 00:16:17,542
I love that word.

269
00:16:17,572 --> 00:16:23,152
Um, because one of the things that
has been really interesting about

270
00:16:23,152 --> 00:16:27,022
becoming a grownup in the world is just.

271
00:16:28,282 --> 00:16:30,922
The level of fucks you give dropping off.

272
00:16:31,342 --> 00:16:37,222
And then you also just realize that
things that you felt like allergic to

273
00:16:37,222 --> 00:16:41,272
as a young person when you were like
trying to like you were like really in

274
00:16:41,272 --> 00:16:45,142
control, like trying to control your
cool, you're like, I need to project

275
00:16:45,142 --> 00:16:46,762
only this certain thing, whatever.

276
00:16:46,762 --> 00:16:52,012
It just all goes away and, or at least it
does for the few of us that have reached

277
00:16:52,012 --> 00:16:53,812
that top of the pyramid feeling great.

278
00:16:54,112 --> 00:16:57,442
Um, but like there were so many things.

279
00:16:57,682 --> 00:17:03,172
That I would've seen as like dorky
or cringe or whatever, that now I'm

280
00:17:03,172 --> 00:17:08,272
like, anytime that I get like a cringe
reaction in my body, it feels like a

281
00:17:08,272 --> 00:17:12,622
moment where I have to do like personal
work to like work through the cringe.

282
00:17:12,652 --> 00:17:18,052
Instead of that, it's about like being
anti, the other thing, it's actually

283
00:17:18,052 --> 00:17:22,792
like I'm grateful for this, for pointing
out this cringe reaction that I now

284
00:17:22,792 --> 00:17:27,832
have to like work through and break up
because it's bad to have that reaction.

285
00:17:27,982 --> 00:17:33,382
And so when I see people in the world that
have like zero, like cringe reaction, I'm

286
00:17:33,382 --> 00:17:37,072
just like, these are the ascendant humans.

287
00:17:37,072 --> 00:17:40,252
Like these are the ones that
have made it to the top.

288
00:17:40,432 --> 00:17:40,792
Yeah.

289
00:17:41,069 --> 00:17:42,539
Brad: yes, yes.

290
00:17:42,989 --> 00:17:44,489
That, that like.

291
00:17:45,404 --> 00:17:47,864
The, the utmost sincerity.

292
00:17:48,284 --> 00:17:50,594
Oh my God, you, you love this.

293
00:17:50,684 --> 00:17:56,084
This movie that I think is this
over the top, just explosion

294
00:17:56,084 --> 00:17:57,854
fest, big budget, whatever.

295
00:17:57,854 --> 00:17:59,984
But like, you, you love that.

296
00:18:00,704 --> 00:18:02,084
And like, I love that.

297
00:18:02,084 --> 00:18:06,374
You love that like, like that,
that is making you happy.

298
00:18:06,824 --> 00:18:10,514
And like, I don't give a shit
about the nature of can I, can

299
00:18:10,514 --> 00:18:13,694
I, you're like the perfect person
since we're workshopping things.

300
00:18:13,957 --> 00:18:16,147
and it is exactly what you're describing.

301
00:18:16,147 --> 00:18:21,787
I have this idea for a big
art installation in fact,

302
00:18:22,087 --> 00:18:24,131
one second I got props.

303
00:18:24,485 --> 00:18:29,285
this, I went to Goodwill
Live, laugh, love, give, let

304
00:18:29,698 --> 00:18:30,223
Jessica Hische: I love it.

305
00:18:30,515 --> 00:18:31,415
Brad: be done in love.

306
00:18:31,505 --> 00:18:31,865
Right?

307
00:18:31,865 --> 00:18:37,560
Like, as letter art person,
whatever, and, but it's, it's

308
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:44,100
exactly that level of cringe, We, we
describe that shit as basic, right?

309
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,270
Live, laugh, love.

310
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:45,750
Ha ha.

311
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:47,700
It's a meme, it's a joke.

312
00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:54,181
like what I've done back to like, those,
those feelings of like, ah, yeah, Let's

313
00:18:54,181 --> 00:18:58,621
all like, look at this stuff and laugh
and then like, you pick at that and it's

314
00:18:58,621 --> 00:19:00,691
like, what does this actually say here?

315
00:19:01,171 --> 00:19:05,191
It's like, laugh, love, my God.

316
00:19:05,191 --> 00:19:09,511
That's like some of the most profound
shit that like, it's, it's the truth.

317
00:19:09,511 --> 00:19:10,531
It's right in front of

318
00:19:10,699 --> 00:19:10,989
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

319
00:19:11,071 --> 00:19:11,491
Brad: Like it

320
00:19:11,589 --> 00:19:11,709
Jessica Hische: I.

321
00:19:12,241 --> 00:19:12,631
Brad: is.

322
00:19:12,781 --> 00:19:17,671
So, so what I wanna do is I wanna do
a go, go to all these Goodwills and

323
00:19:17,671 --> 00:19:21,781
like, like round up all of the live
laugh, love stuff, and I want to do

324
00:19:21,781 --> 00:19:25,021
just like a giant fucking wall of it and

325
00:19:25,149 --> 00:19:25,869
Jessica Hische: I love it.

326
00:19:26,071 --> 00:19:28,471
Brad: do some cool stuff,
like gutsy it up a little bit.

327
00:19:28,471 --> 00:19:32,521
But it's just like, and that's the title
of the piece is with utmost Sincerity.

328
00:19:32,911 --> 00:19:37,531
And it's just like, recontextualizing,
this stuff that like fell in.

329
00:19:37,861 --> 00:19:39,511
Who, where did that go?

330
00:19:39,511 --> 00:19:43,681
Like, jaded, cynical kind of horse.

331
00:19:43,681 --> 00:19:44,161
Shitty.

332
00:19:44,161 --> 00:19:49,921
Like, like let's, let's actually
let people like things like,

333
00:19:49,921 --> 00:19:51,541
let's actually celebrate that.

334
00:19:51,541 --> 00:19:57,541
Like, like, uh, that's I think one of
the, the, the most unfortunate side

335
00:19:57,541 --> 00:20:01,411
effects of like the first generation
of like social media is that there

336
00:20:01,411 --> 00:20:05,611
ended up being this like cynicism
that took root, that it's like, you

337
00:20:05,611 --> 00:20:10,981
can't actually like something, or we
can't, like, we gotta find the angle.

338
00:20:10,981 --> 00:20:13,411
Like, let me, I don't
like this being up here.

339
00:20:13,411 --> 00:20:15,241
I gotta take it down a notch or two.

340
00:20:15,241 --> 00:20:20,551
It's like, let's like who, who
says, you know, like, when did

341
00:20:20,769 --> 00:20:21,159
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

342
00:20:21,451 --> 00:20:23,041
Brad: and how did we all agree to that?

343
00:20:23,304 --> 00:20:26,844
Jessica Hische: one of the things that
I feel like I am hopeful for with the

344
00:20:26,844 --> 00:20:31,824
younger generations that I feel like I've
seen a bit of, but I don't know if it's

345
00:20:31,824 --> 00:20:37,314
like a regional thing, which is that it
doesn't seem cool to be mean anymore.

346
00:20:37,752 --> 00:20:42,042
when you meet kids that are like
middle schoolers or in high school or

347
00:20:42,042 --> 00:20:46,812
whatever, like I feel like I haven't
seen a lot of like, oh yeah, they're

348
00:20:46,812 --> 00:20:48,462
the cool kid because they're mean.

349
00:20:48,492 --> 00:20:52,272
Like, if someone's mean, everyone
kind of has like a, that person

350
00:20:52,272 --> 00:20:54,552
must be going through some
stuff, you know, like whatever.

351
00:20:54,732 --> 00:20:59,472
And I love this, and I hope that that's
not just like a Bay Area regional thing,

352
00:20:59,472 --> 00:21:01,782
because obviously like I'm in a bubble.

353
00:21:01,782 --> 00:21:04,902
And so it's a different,
different situation here, but.

354
00:21:05,307 --> 00:21:09,027
I don't know, like it was so cool
to be mean when we were teenagers

355
00:21:09,027 --> 00:21:11,787
and in our twenties and like the
mean kids always seemed to like

356
00:21:11,787 --> 00:21:13,227
rise to the top of the pile.

357
00:21:13,707 --> 00:21:16,017
And if it's not cool to be
mean anymore, that'd be great.

358
00:21:16,077 --> 00:21:18,147
That'd be so great for everyone.

359
00:21:19,097 --> 00:21:20,327
Brad: It would be interesting.

360
00:21:20,327 --> 00:21:22,067
Like I, I, I genuinely don't know.

361
00:21:22,122 --> 00:21:26,477
I I, I'm in my own little cul-de-sac
bubble here outside of Pittsburgh when

362
00:21:26,477 --> 00:21:33,557
all of the teenagers on our little street
are like the sweetest, kindest people.

363
00:21:33,797 --> 00:21:40,302
And I have no idea if like that's
an anomaly or if that's, yeah.

364
00:21:40,302 --> 00:21:42,762
Is that the exception
or, or is that the role?

365
00:21:42,879 --> 00:21:51,114
but I, but I would have to think
there is some semblance of, let's

366
00:21:51,114 --> 00:21:55,644
say like mental health being more of
like a front and center thing that's

367
00:21:55,644 --> 00:21:57,504
like a, like that's a live thing.

368
00:21:57,504 --> 00:22:02,832
There's like, I think a lot more
of like the psychology well,

369
00:22:02,832 --> 00:22:06,462
positive psychology, but just an
understanding of psychology in general.

370
00:22:06,462 --> 00:22:10,692
Like it's no longer, like the first like
hundred years of, of psychology was just

371
00:22:10,692 --> 00:22:15,372
all like weird Freud stuff and like all
this like very like pathological stuff.

372
00:22:15,672 --> 00:22:21,552
And I feel like we are now living in a
moment where kids are growing up with

373
00:22:21,552 --> 00:22:24,462
like some, like, my daughter comes
home from school, I'm sure your kids

374
00:22:24,462 --> 00:22:27,342
are the same way, where it's like,
there's some stuff that's just like

375
00:22:27,342 --> 00:22:32,802
really good emotional intelligence
stuff and just like good, like

376
00:22:32,922 --> 00:22:36,132
holistic, like wellbeing kind of stuff.

377
00:22:36,192 --> 00:22:37,062
And my

378
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:37,590
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

379
00:22:37,902 --> 00:22:43,422
Brad: that that taught and there's,
there's more of an awareness around it.

380
00:22:43,422 --> 00:22:48,093
And there's, there also seems to be a bit
more of like a counter, momentum swing

381
00:22:48,093 --> 00:22:53,388
away from like helicopter parenting a
little bit and like a, a real reckoning

382
00:22:53,388 --> 00:22:56,633
with like, we kind of need kids to.

383
00:22:57,618 --> 00:23:01,758
You know, develop and, and, and
grow and, and learn how to be

384
00:23:01,758 --> 00:23:06,348
resilient on their own rather than
us trying to design that for them.

385
00:23:06,738 --> 00:23:08,088
Um, so I don't know.

386
00:23:08,448 --> 00:23:12,228
I maybe we're just optimistic
and maybe like most

387
00:23:12,311 --> 00:23:12,601
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

388
00:23:12,618 --> 00:23:14,238
Brad: are like, no,
everybody's still shitty.

389
00:23:14,502 --> 00:23:14,922
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

390
00:23:15,042 --> 00:23:17,717
They're like, no, the teenagers
destroy everything and La

391
00:23:17,717 --> 00:23:20,237
la, which is also true, so

392
00:23:20,254 --> 00:23:23,644
Brad: guess you'll find out,
you'll, you'll find out soon enough.

393
00:23:23,644 --> 00:23:26,656
I'll find out soon enough
and we'll report back.

394
00:23:26,706 --> 00:23:30,876
what's like the biggest thing that
your kids have, like, taught you about

395
00:23:30,891 --> 00:23:35,331
the emotional landscape or the, the,
the spiritual realm or like what?

396
00:23:35,331 --> 00:23:39,891
Like, because the lens
by which kids exist.

397
00:23:40,499 --> 00:23:40,919
Jessica Hische: Mm-hmm.

398
00:23:40,986 --> 00:23:43,804
Brad: talking about with just
like enthusiasm and positivity

399
00:23:43,804 --> 00:23:47,674
and boundlessness, and almost
like a kind of a joyful naivety.

400
00:23:48,577 --> 00:23:52,117
you're confronted with that every
day, I, I say confronted, but whenever

401
00:23:52,117 --> 00:23:56,767
you're exposed to that every day,
that radically has changed me.

402
00:23:56,767 --> 00:23:57,642
I don't, I don't know.

403
00:23:57,647 --> 00:24:01,627
Like what, what sort of lessons
you've learned from, from your kids.

404
00:24:01,729 --> 00:24:04,699
Jessica Hische: I've got some
really different personalities in

405
00:24:04,699 --> 00:24:10,519
my household, so I. My youngest is
like, I love everything and everyone,

406
00:24:10,579 --> 00:24:12,649
I'm always happy about everything.

407
00:24:12,649 --> 00:24:14,809
I just, I'm just here to party.

408
00:24:14,869 --> 00:24:16,069
Like, that's his whole vibe.

409
00:24:16,329 --> 00:24:20,259
the thing that I learned through
him, which I already know in myself

410
00:24:20,289 --> 00:24:23,799
'cause I am also this person, is
that just like showing up in the

411
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:26,679
world with a smile on your face
makes the world better for everyone.

412
00:24:26,679 --> 00:24:30,099
It makes your, your life better and
it makes everyone else's life better.

413
00:24:30,309 --> 00:24:36,343
Because my oldest, who is not that, she
definitely is much more introverted.

414
00:24:36,373 --> 00:24:39,553
She like straight up, like
will just be unresponsive to

415
00:24:39,553 --> 00:24:40,783
adults that are talking to her.

416
00:24:40,993 --> 00:24:45,463
So like if someone gives her a compliment
or something, she just kind of stone

417
00:24:45,463 --> 00:24:50,053
faces them and I'll like talk to her
about it afterwards and be like, Hey,

418
00:24:50,053 --> 00:24:55,333
you know, like it's okay for you to like
give a response back or like show some

419
00:24:55,333 --> 00:24:59,083
emotion in your face, like when people
say a nice thing to you or whatever.

420
00:24:59,473 --> 00:25:01,873
And then she was just like,
what if I don't want to.

421
00:25:02,233 --> 00:25:03,643
And I was like, it's totally fine.

422
00:25:03,643 --> 00:25:04,933
You know, like, that's on you.

423
00:25:05,443 --> 00:25:10,123
Uh, but she'll also like, we'll go
to a, we went to like a craft fair or

424
00:25:10,123 --> 00:25:15,373
whatever, and George, who's five will
like walk up to some lady their booth and

425
00:25:15,373 --> 00:25:17,623
be like, I love the earrings you make.

426
00:25:17,623 --> 00:25:20,023
These are the most beautiful
bracelets I've ever seen.

427
00:25:20,023 --> 00:25:22,303
You know, like, and just be
like really engaging with her.

428
00:25:22,573 --> 00:25:24,583
And then she's just like,
take them, take them all.

429
00:25:24,613 --> 00:25:26,263
Like, she just like gives him stuff.

430
00:25:26,323 --> 00:25:30,133
And then Ramona will walk away
and be like, be like, how come

431
00:25:30,133 --> 00:25:31,303
I didn't get any free stuff?

432
00:25:31,303 --> 00:25:32,923
And people always give George free stuff.

433
00:25:32,923 --> 00:25:35,833
And I was like, 'cause George looks
at people and makes them feel good.

434
00:25:36,643 --> 00:25:40,123
Like, if you walk out to
people and make them feel nice,

435
00:25:40,153 --> 00:25:41,473
they wanna give you things.

436
00:25:41,533 --> 00:25:44,593
So like, even if that's not a
natural thing that you wanna do,

437
00:25:44,653 --> 00:25:47,983
know that that is a useful tool
that you can have with other people.

438
00:25:48,073 --> 00:25:51,403
And so that's been really
interesting to sort of see that

439
00:25:51,403 --> 00:25:53,023
play out in like real ways.

440
00:25:53,023 --> 00:25:58,762
And then, um, my middle, is
also a very different person.

441
00:25:58,762 --> 00:26:01,972
Like he's also like a big goofball
and a big clown or whatever,

442
00:26:01,972 --> 00:26:03,562
but he's also crazy sensitive.

443
00:26:03,712 --> 00:26:08,092
So he's both that like introverted
sensitive kid, but also like a loud

444
00:26:08,092 --> 00:26:12,172
performer, like always the jokester,
like trying to like, you know,

445
00:26:12,412 --> 00:26:15,082
be the, the, the show iest one.

446
00:26:15,502 --> 00:26:20,182
And it's just been really interesting
to see both my and Russ's personality

447
00:26:20,182 --> 00:26:21,982
traits come out in different ways in them.

448
00:26:21,982 --> 00:26:26,182
And then also basically both of us being
like, well, I guess literally everyone

449
00:26:26,182 --> 00:26:29,212
in the family has a DHD and just has
a different flavor of it because we're

450
00:26:29,212 --> 00:26:32,782
just seeing like, you see what the kids
are doing and what they're going through

451
00:26:32,782 --> 00:26:36,952
and being like, oh, that's that you have
that version, and I have this version,

452
00:26:36,952 --> 00:26:38,482
and that's why that one does that.

453
00:26:38,602 --> 00:26:42,892
And so we're just, it's very, like, the
thing that's really interesting is that

454
00:26:43,402 --> 00:26:48,022
we feel like such a unit, like, you know,
like I feel like any, we just like hang

455
00:26:48,022 --> 00:26:49,882
out and everybody gets along really well.

456
00:26:49,887 --> 00:26:51,442
And I think it's because we're all like.

457
00:26:51,847 --> 00:26:58,117
Just neurodivergent in our own ways and
so we all really get each other, you know?

458
00:26:58,117 --> 00:27:02,317
And, uh, that's been really interesting
to just like be in a household full

459
00:27:02,317 --> 00:27:06,547
of people that kind of all have
a similar, you know, affectation.

460
00:27:06,937 --> 00:27:07,417
So

461
00:27:07,631 --> 00:27:10,331
Brad: I mean, that's be I, and
that's beautiful and like you have

462
00:27:10,331 --> 00:27:14,531
your flavor of that and it's like
everyone has their flavor of that.

463
00:27:14,531 --> 00:27:18,371
Even if it's like, like some people
I know, like entire families of

464
00:27:18,371 --> 00:27:20,921
curmudgeons and it's like they're yeah.

465
00:27:20,921 --> 00:27:22,961
Happily curmudgeony together.

466
00:27:22,961 --> 00:27:26,218
And, there's something there where
it's like you can just have that

467
00:27:26,248 --> 00:27:30,778
unspoken, you all know you're, you're
built the same, you're wired the

468
00:27:30,778 --> 00:27:35,278
same, or you have your own, you know,
equilibrium, your own like kind of

469
00:27:35,278 --> 00:27:42,388
family organism kind of vibe, and you're
just able to enjoy it, lean into it.

470
00:27:42,388 --> 00:27:43,498
I think that's beautiful.

471
00:27:43,558 --> 00:27:44,338
That's amazing.

472
00:27:44,447 --> 00:27:49,127
So yeah, you, you have like a
real stark contrast between.

473
00:27:50,012 --> 00:27:56,072
Like unbounded enthusiasm
and exuberance with this.

474
00:27:56,072 --> 00:27:56,702
Like,

475
00:27:58,330 --> 00:27:59,935
Jessica Hische: Gloomy
teenager, basically.

476
00:27:59,935 --> 00:28:00,385
Yeah.

477
00:28:01,112 --> 00:28:01,442
Brad: yeah.

478
00:28:03,512 --> 00:28:03,902
Wait till

479
00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:07,495
Jessica Hische: We will see though,
like, I think, I think the main, the

480
00:28:07,495 --> 00:28:10,915
main thing that's good though is that
she was born in this time to these

481
00:28:10,915 --> 00:28:16,165
parents because we're, I think she's also
just way low on the dopamine scale and

482
00:28:16,165 --> 00:28:17,725
we're just gonna try to level her out.

483
00:28:17,785 --> 00:28:22,885
And so we're in the process of doing
that because it's very clear that like

484
00:28:22,885 --> 00:28:26,065
all the, like she's just not happy
because she just doesn't have enough

485
00:28:26,065 --> 00:28:30,295
happy juice going on and just wants
to eat candy all the time and doesn't

486
00:28:30,295 --> 00:28:35,005
sleep very well and is moody blues and
I just don't want her to be moody blues.

487
00:28:35,334 --> 00:28:38,694
Brad: I love how you frame that,
because we've used like, pretty

488
00:28:38,694 --> 00:28:40,134
much the exact same thing.

489
00:28:40,164 --> 00:28:45,064
It's like, like, Melissa's inner master's
program to become a therapist, an arts

490
00:28:45,064 --> 00:28:49,654
therapist, and like having been through
what we've been through, we have like

491
00:28:49,654 --> 00:28:55,564
this really, you know, acute sense of,
of mental health and all of that stuff.

492
00:28:55,564 --> 00:28:59,769
And so when we noticed those things
that we're like, oh yeah, monitor it

493
00:28:59,859 --> 00:29:03,399
for now, but like, eventually that's
probably going to become a thing.

494
00:29:03,399 --> 00:29:05,619
But at, but at the same time it's okay.

495
00:29:05,619 --> 00:29:09,789
It's just, you know, it's, it's
genes and, and it's wiring, but

496
00:29:09,789 --> 00:29:11,829
it's like you could sort it out.

497
00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:16,089
And the fact that there's this,
like you said, like born at this

498
00:29:16,089 --> 00:29:19,179
time to these people is such a gift.

499
00:29:19,179 --> 00:29:23,169
And we, we talk about it all the
time that it's like we know, not to

500
00:29:23,169 --> 00:29:24,609
just be like, what's wrong with you?

501
00:29:24,609 --> 00:29:27,849
Just, you know, sit down and shut
up or, you know, like, don't be

502
00:29:28,257 --> 00:29:28,537
Jessica Hische: Yeah,

503
00:29:28,659 --> 00:29:29,289
Brad: crying.

504
00:29:29,289 --> 00:29:35,229
Like it's no, like we, we know that
there's like a lot going on and,

505
00:29:35,497 --> 00:29:41,467
and, and that there are ways of, of
being able to help and, and support

506
00:29:41,565 --> 00:29:41,985
Jessica Hische: Also.

507
00:29:42,157 --> 00:29:42,547
Brad: isn't,

508
00:29:42,675 --> 00:29:43,965
Jessica Hische: Yeah, and also too,

509
00:29:44,137 --> 00:29:44,677
Brad: lifelong

510
00:29:44,865 --> 00:29:49,917
Jessica Hische: I, yeah, well, I feel
like too, like, like medication was

511
00:29:49,917 --> 00:29:55,317
viewed so differently in the nineties
and 2000 and s than it is now.

512
00:29:55,587 --> 00:30:01,497
And I, it's sort of, I can compare it to
like, trying to do an unmedicated birth,

513
00:30:01,887 --> 00:30:04,827
you know, like where you don't have a, um.

514
00:30:05,622 --> 00:30:08,022
You know, you don't do
the epidural or whatever.

515
00:30:08,052 --> 00:30:12,162
Like, uh, a friend, I tried to to go
about it that way with my first one

516
00:30:12,162 --> 00:30:14,052
and it just like went, it was terrible.

517
00:30:14,052 --> 00:30:18,012
And I had, I just had to lean in
and a friend of mine was like,

518
00:30:18,252 --> 00:30:19,512
let me just put it this way.

519
00:30:19,752 --> 00:30:23,352
No one ever has a second
baby without an epidural.

520
00:30:23,412 --> 00:30:26,022
They might do it the first time
and then the second time they're

521
00:30:26,022 --> 00:30:27,642
like, Nope, let's just go for it.

522
00:30:28,002 --> 00:30:33,222
And I think there's this like thing where
we feel like we have to try the absolute

523
00:30:33,222 --> 00:30:37,872
hardest way to do something first,
because we see the medication as a cop

524
00:30:37,872 --> 00:30:43,422
out when really it's like all of those
hard things don't actually get you to,

525
00:30:43,482 --> 00:30:46,512
it's like a constant maintenance cycle.

526
00:30:46,632 --> 00:30:50,952
You know, like my mom also had like mental
health stuff when I was growing up and

527
00:30:50,952 --> 00:30:55,902
has dealt with like, she has very severe A
DHD clearly, but she's undiagnosed and um,

528
00:30:55,932 --> 00:30:58,962
had a bunch of depression and all kinds
of things and she was like, yeah, the

529
00:30:58,962 --> 00:31:00,432
only thing that worked for me was like.

530
00:31:00,927 --> 00:31:03,867
Intensely exercising for
two to four hours per day.

531
00:31:04,017 --> 00:31:05,967
And I was like, who can do that?

532
00:31:06,027 --> 00:31:10,587
You know, like, like, you know, like
there are things you can do to like

533
00:31:10,587 --> 00:31:16,047
solve the problem, like mostly where
you can get yourself like 70 to 80%

534
00:31:16,047 --> 00:31:21,927
there, but it involves like gargantuan
lifestyle changes that don't necessarily

535
00:31:22,077 --> 00:31:26,757
mesh with modern life or having a
job or having kids and all that.

536
00:31:27,132 --> 00:31:32,697
And so you do what you can to like
mitigate things, but also like, I feel

537
00:31:32,697 --> 00:31:37,827
like people just cut themselves off
from the ability to actually like solve

538
00:31:37,827 --> 00:31:44,877
these problems in a much more like easy
way by just like trying out rebalancing

539
00:31:44,907 --> 00:31:46,887
your brain chemicals, you know?

540
00:31:47,127 --> 00:31:51,567
Because I think there's just this whole
thing of like, yeah, I mean, I thought

541
00:31:51,567 --> 00:31:53,157
for sure it was gonna totally, I.

542
00:31:53,562 --> 00:31:56,142
Change who I like, change
my personality or something.

543
00:31:56,142 --> 00:32:00,762
And I just feel like, oh my God,
look, I am like back to being my best

544
00:32:00,762 --> 00:32:05,450
self that I was like before I started
having crazy hormone problems or uh, or

545
00:32:05,450 --> 00:32:08,720
like my best self when I wasn't being
triggered by anxiety and was getting

546
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,070
great sleep and was doing whatever.

547
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,390
I'm not getting great sleep, but my brain
is like in the same place as if I am.

548
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,020
But yeah.

549
00:32:15,597 --> 00:32:17,517
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

550
00:32:17,607 --> 00:32:19,347
It's, you, you are healthier.

551
00:32:19,347 --> 00:32:23,187
It's like, it, it is, the, the analogy
I use is it's eyeglasses, right?

552
00:32:23,187 --> 00:32:27,687
And, and coming, coming back to the
exercising two to four hours, it's like,

553
00:32:27,687 --> 00:32:33,987
yeah, well, I might not need glasses if I
just redesign my entire life to, to make

554
00:32:33,987 --> 00:32:37,857
it so that I could just kind of see things
if I just sort of stand so far away.

555
00:32:37,857 --> 00:32:38,247
And if I,

556
00:32:38,450 --> 00:32:40,490
Jessica Hische: And squint
a certain way and yeah.

557
00:32:40,497 --> 00:32:41,397
Brad: way and like, like.

558
00:32:42,297 --> 00:32:46,317
And, and, and put this on my car in a
big magnifying glass on my, like, it's

559
00:32:46,317 --> 00:32:52,647
like, or just get some eyeglasses but
it's like there's an uneven understanding

560
00:32:52,977 --> 00:32:58,377
and appreciation for what this class
of Dr It's, it's very misunderstood.

561
00:32:58,377 --> 00:33:00,687
It's very stigmatized still, or whatever.

562
00:33:01,017 --> 00:33:03,027
The stigma part, I don't understand.

563
00:33:03,297 --> 00:33:06,447
The misunderstood part is fully
understandable, because even the

564
00:33:06,447 --> 00:33:10,167
people that make this stuff, they're
like, how do, how do SSRIs work?

565
00:33:10,167 --> 00:33:10,467
They're like,

566
00:33:11,446 --> 00:33:11,896
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

567
00:33:11,896 --> 00:33:12,076
I dunno.

568
00:33:12,188 --> 00:33:12,758
Brad: okay.

569
00:33:12,886 --> 00:33:13,366
Jessica Hische: happens.

570
00:33:13,688 --> 00:33:13,868
Brad: they're

571
00:33:13,876 --> 00:33:14,206
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

572
00:33:14,408 --> 00:33:15,518
Brad: we have our theories.

573
00:33:15,518 --> 00:33:17,528
Like we, you know, we, we think it's this.

574
00:33:17,768 --> 00:33:22,478
So it's like, I, I understand maybe like
a lack of understanding, but the, but

575
00:33:22,478 --> 00:33:28,958
the, the, the more like stigma around
it, it does feel, it feels generational.

576
00:33:28,958 --> 00:33:29,648
It feels.

577
00:33:30,743 --> 00:33:36,263
It there, there's a lot wrapped up in
it, but at the same time, I'm hopeful

578
00:33:36,263 --> 00:33:41,573
back to like the, the younger kids,
I think that it's, it's not just

579
00:33:41,573 --> 00:33:46,403
like slamming Ritalin in their mouth
anymore, you know, just as a, as a,

580
00:33:46,793 --> 00:33:49,283
you know, settle down kind of thing.

581
00:33:49,343 --> 00:33:54,023
It's a, it seems like more deliberate
and, and designed and whatever, but

582
00:33:54,255 --> 00:33:56,685
Jessica Hische: I'm slamming
Ritalin and it's great.

583
00:33:56,805 --> 00:34:03,264
And so like the main thing being, uh,
I didn't understand How, like, you

584
00:34:03,264 --> 00:34:06,684
know, and I, I, it feels weird to like
go and get my medicine now because

585
00:34:06,684 --> 00:34:09,504
it is, it's a controlled substance
and it's a big fucking pain in the

586
00:34:09,504 --> 00:34:11,124
butt to get my prescription filled.

587
00:34:11,364 --> 00:34:13,404
Like every time I go to the pharmacy,

588
00:34:13,576 --> 00:34:13,876
Brad: part.

589
00:34:13,884 --> 00:34:14,394
Jessica Hische: I hate it.

590
00:34:14,724 --> 00:34:18,324
I have to call in every month and
there's always shortages, but I can't

591
00:34:18,324 --> 00:34:21,114
ask the pharmacy if they have it
'cause they're not allowed to tell me.

592
00:34:21,234 --> 00:34:24,684
So sometimes I have to call, like my
doctor has to send in prescriptions

593
00:34:24,684 --> 00:34:27,114
to like eight different pharmacies
until I find one that has it.

594
00:34:27,594 --> 00:34:32,364
But it even feels like, then, like,
I'm like, do you know what this does?

595
00:34:32,394 --> 00:34:37,104
Like it, all that it does is
make me not a hummingbird.

596
00:34:37,374 --> 00:34:38,664
Like that's all that it does.

597
00:34:38,694 --> 00:34:44,124
Like I, if I feel like I'm in a yoga class
all day when I'm on it and when I'm not

598
00:34:44,124 --> 00:34:45,474
on it, I'm like, Ooh, what about that?

599
00:34:45,564 --> 00:34:46,134
Ooh, what about that?

600
00:34:46,139 --> 00:34:47,124
No, what we should do, we should do that.

601
00:34:47,184 --> 00:34:47,784
Oh, we should do that.

602
00:34:47,784 --> 00:34:51,415
And it just like non-sequitur
jump, jump junk I, I get that.

603
00:34:51,415 --> 00:34:58,615
If you're not like us, uh, or me,
then it makes you psychotically wired.

604
00:34:58,765 --> 00:35:04,516
But like, I get way crazier
of a wiry effect from caffeine

605
00:35:04,756 --> 00:35:06,916
than I do from Ritalin.

606
00:35:07,096 --> 00:35:09,316
Ritalin does not make me wired at all.

607
00:35:09,376 --> 00:35:12,826
I don't get wired, but like,
if I have two cups of coffee,

608
00:35:12,826 --> 00:35:15,346
I'm like, like crazy buzzy.

609
00:35:15,614 --> 00:35:19,094
Brad: It's so weird how it
hits everybody differently too.

610
00:35:19,094 --> 00:35:25,214
And my doctor was like, she's like this,
uh, this, because I'm on Adderall xr.

611
00:35:25,274 --> 00:35:29,774
And she's like, she's like, and we
recently are, we're playing around with

612
00:35:29,774 --> 00:35:34,654
putting like a second dose in uh, this
might keep you up all night, or you might

613
00:35:34,654 --> 00:35:36,874
sleep better than you've ever seen before.

614
00:35:36,904 --> 00:35:38,674
Or maybe it has no change.

615
00:35:38,674 --> 00:35:42,694
And it is just like,
okay, sure, that's fine.

616
00:35:43,144 --> 00:35:49,144
But I like, I like what you're saying
that there is a, there, there's

617
00:35:49,144 --> 00:35:54,664
like a clarity in your tendencies.

618
00:35:54,664 --> 00:35:57,394
I 'cause like, it's not
like a diminishment.

619
00:35:58,204 --> 00:35:58,444
Of,

620
00:35:58,577 --> 00:35:58,797
Jessica Hische: Mm.

621
00:35:58,984 --> 00:35:59,794
Brad: skills.

622
00:35:59,854 --> 00:36:04,361
And, and I wanna kind of pick at that
too, because like it's been so fun

623
00:36:04,361 --> 00:36:07,211
just kinda watching you from afar.

624
00:36:07,241 --> 00:36:11,876
'cause like we, we kind of like year
that was, like, let's say like late

625
00:36:13,181 --> 00:36:15,041
2010, let's call it, I don't know.

626
00:36:15,761 --> 00:36:18,251
we're there, we're kind
of at like the same spot.

627
00:36:18,251 --> 00:36:22,576
We're both like, you know,
go, you know, and, and, and

628
00:36:22,609 --> 00:36:23,299
Jessica Hische: Making stuff.

629
00:36:23,299 --> 00:36:23,989
Let's do stuff.

630
00:36:24,019 --> 00:36:24,259
Yeah.

631
00:36:24,281 --> 00:36:24,941
Brad: things.

632
00:36:24,941 --> 00:36:26,291
Yeah, yeah.

633
00:36:26,561 --> 00:36:30,431
But, but like that, making
stuff and making varied things

634
00:36:30,431 --> 00:36:32,261
in different kinds of things.

635
00:36:32,261 --> 00:36:32,531
Right.

636
00:36:32,531 --> 00:36:36,851
And this is like an, it's an interesting
thing that I'm sure you've heard about,

637
00:36:36,851 --> 00:36:41,351
but curious to get your take on it as
someone who has really benefited from

638
00:36:42,671 --> 00:36:46,811
hummingbird approach to things is a gift.

639
00:36:46,811 --> 00:36:47,141
Right?

640
00:36:47,141 --> 00:36:50,981
It's like, it's a gift so long
as it doesn't get in the way.

641
00:36:51,311 --> 00:36:56,801
And that's what the medicine, in my view,
like for, for me personally, the medicine

642
00:36:57,611 --> 00:37:05,800
keeps the hummingbird moving towards
actual feeders have actual nutrients

643
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,610
in it versus just like flitting around
going here, there, and everywhere.

644
00:37:09,610 --> 00:37:14,200
It's like it's a focusing effect,
but it doesn't diminish the spirit.

645
00:37:14,478 --> 00:37:14,768
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

646
00:37:14,868 --> 00:37:18,253
To me, um, I, no, I feel the same way.

647
00:37:18,253 --> 00:37:19,963
I think the one thing is.

648
00:37:20,878 --> 00:37:26,758
In losing the hummingbird brain, I
do lose a bit of the like, like this,

649
00:37:26,758 --> 00:37:28,618
this, this, this, this, this, this.

650
00:37:28,618 --> 00:37:32,248
If I'm like, on a real tear, like every
now and then, I would get, basically

651
00:37:32,248 --> 00:37:36,803
get in like a manic creative tear where
I could just like, have a billion ideas

652
00:37:36,803 --> 00:37:40,823
flying at me and, and a lot of them
were like worth pursuing or they were

653
00:37:40,823 --> 00:37:42,743
all contained within the same thing.

654
00:37:43,073 --> 00:37:49,463
But that happens so rarely that it's
not worth living my life for that.

655
00:37:49,853 --> 00:37:50,693
You know what I mean?

656
00:37:50,963 --> 00:37:55,943
Like when in the, in the prior days I
was, when I could be in control of my

657
00:37:55,943 --> 00:37:59,783
own time, I would just like hop from
project, project, project, project to

658
00:37:59,783 --> 00:38:03,413
like make, keep the, um, enthusiasm going.

659
00:38:03,413 --> 00:38:06,143
And so like the whole procrast
working thing was basically just

660
00:38:06,143 --> 00:38:07,793
a big A DHD coping mechanism.

661
00:38:08,303 --> 00:38:14,003
Um, but now that I'm a parent and my,
and my work days are more contained

662
00:38:14,003 --> 00:38:17,783
and I, and it's a little unpredictable
about whether or not I can go into

663
00:38:17,783 --> 00:38:22,733
that hyperfocus mode or not, I need to
make sure that when I'm at my office

664
00:38:22,793 --> 00:38:27,443
that I'm not being diverted because
the diversions aren't helpful anymore.

665
00:38:27,473 --> 00:38:30,503
Like, those are really helpful
when you're working like 14 hours

666
00:38:30,503 --> 00:38:34,703
a day and you can just like divert
and then divert and then divert.

667
00:38:34,853 --> 00:38:40,343
But when you're only working for like
six to nine hours a day, then the,

668
00:38:40,343 --> 00:38:44,633
the diversions are like an absolute
wrench thrown into the whole thing.

669
00:38:44,843 --> 00:38:45,593
And so.

670
00:38:46,283 --> 00:38:46,583
Yeah.

671
00:38:46,583 --> 00:38:50,063
I mean, and also too, like the, the other
thing that I found is like, is similar to

672
00:38:50,063 --> 00:38:52,163
the four hours of exercise thing, like.

673
00:38:52,763 --> 00:38:59,873
My thing is I am so much less anxious if I
can just like be in perpetual motion, like

674
00:38:59,873 --> 00:39:01,763
working on stuff, you know, like that.

675
00:39:01,763 --> 00:39:03,263
I always have something to do.

676
00:39:03,353 --> 00:39:04,853
You know, I'm a very busy person.

677
00:39:04,853 --> 00:39:08,363
I just have to like keep busy, keep
busy, keep moving forward like a shark,

678
00:39:08,423 --> 00:39:09,833
you know, like just have to keep moving.

679
00:39:09,833 --> 00:39:11,243
Otherwise, I feel like I'm gonna die.

680
00:39:11,543 --> 00:39:15,863
And when I don't have the
capacity to do that all the time,

681
00:39:15,983 --> 00:39:18,563
my anxiety builds up and so.

682
00:39:18,893 --> 00:39:22,313
What, and that's because all that
energy that I would've been spending

683
00:39:22,343 --> 00:39:26,813
on all of those outlets is building
up and doesn't have a place to go.

684
00:39:26,873 --> 00:39:32,033
And so the taking a stimulant, like
taking the Ritalin, what it does is it

685
00:39:32,033 --> 00:39:34,043
dissipates that energy that's built up.

686
00:39:34,373 --> 00:39:36,113
And so I think like.

687
00:39:36,318 --> 00:39:39,468
If I could live, like there's probably
a world in which I'm no longer on

688
00:39:39,468 --> 00:39:43,458
stimulants when I'm not so on top of
the kids or traveling or like whatever.

689
00:39:43,698 --> 00:39:47,958
Like if I can just do what I want all the
time, I probably don't need it as much.

690
00:39:47,958 --> 00:39:54,198
But I feel like now what it really does is
just help that energy disperse so that I,

691
00:39:54,318 --> 00:39:56,568
that doesn't turn into horrible anxiety.

692
00:39:56,808 --> 00:39:58,728
'cause like that's what
it feels like to me.

693
00:39:59,028 --> 00:40:02,868
And a friend of mine was like, 'cause
I was kind of back and forth about

694
00:40:02,868 --> 00:40:05,928
whether or not I should try stimulants
and she was like, dude, don't, don't

695
00:40:05,928 --> 00:40:08,898
sleep on how much it can impact anxiety.

696
00:40:08,898 --> 00:40:10,908
Like if you're like an an anxious person.

697
00:40:11,268 --> 00:40:15,258
It had the biggest impact for me
in terms of anxiety more so than

698
00:40:15,258 --> 00:40:19,158
taking S-S-R-I-S-N-R-I and I, and
I found that to be really true.

699
00:40:19,188 --> 00:40:22,248
Like, you know, like the, I
definitely feel like the SNRI.

700
00:40:23,088 --> 00:40:27,438
What that does is kind of like, not
have me in these weird, like false

701
00:40:27,438 --> 00:40:31,458
reality shifts where I like have a
false belief about what's going on.

702
00:40:31,638 --> 00:40:34,188
Because like every now and then you
kind of like have that sort of like,

703
00:40:34,668 --> 00:40:36,378
wait, what is, what was that about?

704
00:40:36,378 --> 00:40:38,748
You know, like the, those kind
of feelings and I, and those

705
00:40:38,748 --> 00:40:39,888
just don't happen anymore.

706
00:40:39,888 --> 00:40:43,158
And I think it's because I'm like way
more leveled out because of the SNRI.

707
00:40:43,428 --> 00:40:47,928
But in terms of just that like low hum
of anxiety that kind of builds and builds

708
00:40:47,928 --> 00:40:50,478
and builds, the, the stimulants are what?

709
00:40:50,538 --> 00:40:51,258
Knock that out.

710
00:40:51,258 --> 00:40:54,588
Like if I, if I'm feeling kind of
like ugh in the afternoon and I

711
00:40:54,588 --> 00:40:58,128
take a little boost of the Ritalin,
I'm just like, ah, now I feel good.

712
00:40:58,188 --> 00:40:59,118
Now I can do stuff.

713
00:40:59,268 --> 00:40:59,508
Yeah.

714
00:41:00,210 --> 00:41:01,050
Brad: Yeah.

715
00:41:01,140 --> 00:41:02,280
No, that's, that's wild.

716
00:41:02,310 --> 00:41:05,430
That's a, that, that was very,
that was very descriptive and

717
00:41:05,460 --> 00:41:07,020
like I, I was following along.

718
00:41:07,020 --> 00:41:12,097
It's like that articulation of your
inner energy levels, it's like, and

719
00:41:12,097 --> 00:41:15,727
again, like every body is different
and I think that that's always like

720
00:41:15,727 --> 00:41:17,767
something that's like worth pointing out.

721
00:41:17,767 --> 00:41:21,577
And that's yet another thing that I
get frustrated with when it comes to

722
00:41:21,577 --> 00:41:24,967
people talking about mental health is
that they're like, Hey, I tried that.

723
00:41:24,967 --> 00:41:26,197
Or even like therapy and stuff.

724
00:41:26,197 --> 00:41:27,577
They're like, yeah, I tried that and.

725
00:41:27,982 --> 00:41:28,702
Didn't work.

726
00:41:29,062 --> 00:41:31,342
Uh, and it's like, well, on.

727
00:41:31,937 --> 00:41:35,992
Like, it's like this,
this binary kind of thing.

728
00:41:35,992 --> 00:41:37,132
It's like, it's like you,

729
00:41:37,140 --> 00:41:37,560
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

730
00:41:37,642 --> 00:41:42,862
Brad: have to find the right, the
equilibrium with, with anything, right?

731
00:41:42,862 --> 00:41:47,842
Like it's, it's all about sort of
balances and iterating over things in

732
00:41:47,842 --> 00:41:52,282
order to get to a place where you're
like feeling like your optimal self

733
00:41:52,612 --> 00:41:54,412
and you owe that to yourself, right?

734
00:41:54,412 --> 00:41:58,552
Like, I, I, again, like, I feel like
a lot of the conversations that I have

735
00:41:58,552 --> 00:42:04,522
with people that are or pushing back on
that are like, they're like, no, but I

736
00:42:04,522 --> 00:42:11,062
like wanna stay in that like, low hum
anxiety state, or I wanna feel like that

737
00:42:11,092 --> 00:42:13,192
energy's building up with nowhere to go.

738
00:42:13,192 --> 00:42:16,432
And you're like, but do you
like, it's, it's like, what,

739
00:42:16,650 --> 00:42:20,803
Jessica Hische: Well, you know, it
depends if it, if the way that it works

740
00:42:20,803 --> 00:42:24,493
for them is that they're baking themself
a coiled spring, and then they have

741
00:42:24,493 --> 00:42:28,243
a place to release that coil, great.

742
00:42:28,483 --> 00:42:31,963
Then yeah, I mean that's when it does
feel like a superpower because it's

743
00:42:31,963 --> 00:42:35,773
like that energy builds up and then
you just constantly are outputting it.

744
00:42:36,043 --> 00:42:39,943
But once you get older and you don't have
the capacity to do that as much anymore.

745
00:42:40,003 --> 00:42:40,273
Yeah.

746
00:42:40,273 --> 00:42:41,623
I mean it's like a different thing.

747
00:42:41,743 --> 00:42:48,583
And with therapy it's also like,
like therapy as an adult is so

748
00:42:48,703 --> 00:42:55,978
hard because our brains are like
rigid stone structures, right?

749
00:42:56,278 --> 00:42:59,548
We've like built these pathways
over and over and over again.

750
00:42:59,548 --> 00:43:03,568
We've walked the same roots over and over
again in terms of our thought patterns.

751
00:43:03,748 --> 00:43:08,818
So trying to like unmake those
walkways is so fucking hard.

752
00:43:08,848 --> 00:43:12,958
It's like, it's like you're in, it's
like you're on a trail in the woods and

753
00:43:12,958 --> 00:43:17,848
there's a trail that has been walked
for centuries and you're now starting

754
00:43:17,848 --> 00:43:22,378
to walk down a slightly different trail
that has not been walked for centuries.

755
00:43:22,408 --> 00:43:26,668
And of course, everything wants
to divert down the centuries

756
00:43:26,668 --> 00:43:29,338
long path for a very long time.

757
00:43:29,668 --> 00:43:34,438
And it just takes so much
time to build that new path.

758
00:43:34,528 --> 00:43:39,478
And that's why like the whole, uh,
psychedelic assisted stuff is really cool

759
00:43:39,478 --> 00:43:43,798
because it does allow you to like make
those deep new pathways much quicker.

760
00:43:44,044 --> 00:43:47,224
yeah, I mean like, I loved
therapy, but it took four years

761
00:43:47,254 --> 00:43:50,194
to like unmake some bad mental

762
00:43:50,584 --> 00:43:51,724
pathways of behaviors.

763
00:43:51,724 --> 00:43:55,984
Like it was the slowest, most
arduous, most not noticeable

764
00:43:55,984 --> 00:43:57,754
thing in the whole world.

765
00:43:57,754 --> 00:43:58,534
And it worked.

766
00:43:58,714 --> 00:44:03,544
And it's like, because I did it, it's
gonna stick 'cause I did the hard thing.

767
00:44:03,694 --> 00:44:07,684
And the, and the pathways are there
versus trying to like race to a good

768
00:44:07,684 --> 00:44:11,074
answer and then it can just bounce
right back to the, to the old ways.

769
00:44:11,464 --> 00:44:14,134
But it's, I mean, who can commit to that?

770
00:44:14,134 --> 00:44:17,164
It was like $175 a week for four years.

771
00:44:17,434 --> 00:44:20,404
That's like, you know, it's
like five or six grand a year.

772
00:44:20,644 --> 00:44:22,054
You know, like it's not, nothing.

773
00:44:22,084 --> 00:44:23,374
Like not everybody can do that,

774
00:44:23,775 --> 00:44:27,495
Brad: and, and again and there,
and there's very uneven results.

775
00:44:27,735 --> 00:44:31,005
And it's, it's funny you brought
up the psychedelic speak, whatever

776
00:44:31,005 --> 00:44:35,985
you're talking about, the two to four
hours of exercise the same thing.

777
00:44:35,985 --> 00:44:38,715
It's like that's, that's immediately
where my head went is it's like, oh

778
00:44:38,715 --> 00:44:44,595
yeah, you could do years of talk therapy
or going to meditate these intensive

779
00:44:44,655 --> 00:44:49,275
multi-day meditation retreats and spend
a year long, like years long practice.

780
00:44:49,485 --> 00:44:55,575
It's like, or this way that hook will help
you jump those neural canyons a lot fast.

781
00:44:56,034 --> 00:44:56,484
Jessica Hische: I wish I

782
00:44:56,484 --> 00:45:01,464
could have stuck doing more psychedelics
because I did see this like outrageous

783
00:45:01,464 --> 00:45:03,204
benefit when I first started doing it.

784
00:45:03,204 --> 00:45:07,914
It's like I was so flat, like not
like depressed, but just kind of like.

785
00:45:08,259 --> 00:45:09,789
Everything just felt like a slog.

786
00:45:09,999 --> 00:45:10,239
You know?

787
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:11,829
Like thi like just everything, you know?

788
00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:12,789
I was just like, Ugh.

789
00:45:12,879 --> 00:45:16,204
You know, like the kids ask you to
play outside and you're like, Ugh.

790
00:45:16,359 --> 00:45:18,849
Like the first reaction is, no thank you.

791
00:45:18,849 --> 00:45:22,869
I just wanna sit here and do my own thing
instead of like, wow, that sounds fun.

792
00:45:22,929 --> 00:45:24,309
Of course, it's a beautiful day.

793
00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:24,969
Like whatever.

794
00:45:25,021 --> 00:45:25,311
Brad: Yeah.

795
00:45:26,349 --> 00:45:28,569
Jessica Hische: When I started
doing mushrooms pretty regularly,

796
00:45:28,569 --> 00:45:31,899
I was just like, does anyone
know how gorgeous trees are?

797
00:45:31,899 --> 00:45:35,979
You know, like just even when, when I
wasn't like, like in that space, it just

798
00:45:35,979 --> 00:45:38,529
kind of filtered out into my whole life.

799
00:45:38,529 --> 00:45:42,429
I was just full of wonder all of a sudden,
and I would've been keep doing them.

800
00:45:42,429 --> 00:45:47,331
But I had this issue I don't have
like the best memory because I think

801
00:45:47,331 --> 00:45:50,841
I went through some like tricky yucky
stuff when I was a teenager, and I

802
00:45:50,841 --> 00:45:55,233
just like don't have great recall
for a lot of my, like young memories.

803
00:45:55,473 --> 00:45:59,583
But what, but I have incredibly
vivid dreams almost all the time.

804
00:45:59,703 --> 00:46:03,633
Like my dreams are very
real and I do a lot.

805
00:46:03,633 --> 00:46:06,933
I know that I'm dreaming sometimes,
you know, where I can be like, you

806
00:46:06,933 --> 00:46:10,383
know, in the dream and I'm, I feel
like I'm just watching it like a movie.

807
00:46:10,803 --> 00:46:13,143
Um, yeah, it's like lucid dreaming.

808
00:46:13,413 --> 00:46:16,713
I don't necessarily have control
in the dream, but I'm like aware

809
00:46:16,713 --> 00:46:19,893
that I'm dreaming and it's just
because my sleep is like so yucky

810
00:46:19,893 --> 00:46:21,873
that I'm sort of in REM a lot.

811
00:46:22,323 --> 00:46:24,393
And what happened from the mushrooms?

812
00:46:24,393 --> 00:46:26,073
And this wasn't like while on mushrooms.

813
00:46:26,073 --> 00:46:28,023
This just happened for
like weeks following.

814
00:46:28,263 --> 00:46:29,013
Is that.

815
00:46:29,623 --> 00:46:37,003
My brain started to mix in memories and
details of memories into my vivid dreams.

816
00:46:37,183 --> 00:46:41,833
So then I couldn't tell if the dream
was like a thing that happened or if it

817
00:46:41,833 --> 00:46:45,013
was a dream, and that felt really scary.

818
00:46:45,103 --> 00:46:46,933
And so I was like, I
need to stop doing this.

819
00:46:46,933 --> 00:46:50,563
And that's when I went on SNRIs instead,
I was just like, you know, regular

820
00:46:50,563 --> 00:46:54,643
medicine is also great for managing your
mental health and let's do that instead.

821
00:46:54,818 --> 00:46:55,958
Brad: that's fascinating.

822
00:46:56,078 --> 00:47:02,783
Do you feel that those experiences
though, have had a staying power though?

823
00:47:02,783 --> 00:47:07,553
Or like, are, are there like lessons
learned from that phase that you,

824
00:47:07,943 --> 00:47:10,373
when you like look at the trees now,

825
00:47:10,739 --> 00:47:13,559
Jessica Hische: I think like
there were a couple of experiences

826
00:47:13,559 --> 00:47:15,539
that I had that were really good.

827
00:47:15,539 --> 00:47:18,119
I never like had like a proper trip.

828
00:47:18,299 --> 00:47:22,979
Like I only a couple of times, uh, got
to the place of seeing like some visuals,

829
00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:27,719
like I like, you know, kind of like
holographic ledy world, which was great.

830
00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:34,350
but I think it's more, I think
it was more like understanding

831
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:40,260
that I was capable of joy, like
that kind of joy again, you know?

832
00:47:40,260 --> 00:47:44,220
And it didn't have to be because of like
getting a little, like having a little

833
00:47:44,220 --> 00:47:48,390
bit too much alcohol and feeling that
like tipsy, like extroversion thing.

834
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:50,160
I was like, oh, like.

835
00:47:50,376 --> 00:47:53,886
this is like straight up joyful wonder.

836
00:47:53,916 --> 00:47:58,206
And the fact that you can experience
that as an adult is amazing.

837
00:47:58,386 --> 00:48:01,296
And I was like, I need to figure
out how to have more of that.

838
00:48:01,296 --> 00:48:04,416
Like, however that happens,
because I think you kind of forget.

839
00:48:04,476 --> 00:48:06,516
'cause like kids are
always like, that's crazy.

840
00:48:06,516 --> 00:48:07,506
Like for everything.

841
00:48:07,806 --> 00:48:08,796
And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

842
00:48:08,796 --> 00:48:10,086
You just don't know yet.

843
00:48:10,206 --> 00:48:10,896
Like, you know.

844
00:48:11,136 --> 00:48:15,186
But yeah, I mean, it, it was, I
do think that that stuck with me.

845
00:48:15,186 --> 00:48:19,506
I think it, it made me feel
like prioritizing that was a

846
00:48:19,506 --> 00:48:21,426
real priority, you know, like.

847
00:48:21,801 --> 00:48:25,791
That finding that was something
I really needed to focus on.

848
00:48:26,128 --> 00:48:30,928
it's sort of that thing of like when,
when stuff's going weird mentally, you

849
00:48:30,928 --> 00:48:35,248
don't really realize that, that it wasn't
good until you're out of it and then

850
00:48:35,248 --> 00:48:38,428
you're like, oh wow, that was actually
worse than I thought that it was.

851
00:48:38,488 --> 00:48:40,708
You know, like, and so once
you're out of it, you're, you

852
00:48:40,708 --> 00:48:42,028
have much more perspective.

853
00:48:42,358 --> 00:48:45,268
And it's always so hard to know
because it's such a slow build

854
00:48:45,298 --> 00:48:46,948
to get to like the bad part.

855
00:48:47,008 --> 00:48:50,818
And I think a lot of us get
to a part that's bad, but,

856
00:48:50,998 --> 00:48:52,228
but we're still functional.

857
00:48:52,258 --> 00:48:55,948
Like you're still totally capable
of like doing work and taking care

858
00:48:55,948 --> 00:48:57,568
of your kids and doing whatever.

859
00:48:57,748 --> 00:49:01,558
It's just you are just like a
robot doing those things, you know?

860
00:49:01,588 --> 00:49:04,648
It's just you're going through
the motions and you're not doing

861
00:49:04,648 --> 00:49:06,448
stuff because it makes you stoked.

862
00:49:06,448 --> 00:49:08,998
You're just doing it because it's
like another thing on your calendar.

863
00:49:09,328 --> 00:49:12,478
And yeah, and it was really
nice to get outta that mode.

864
00:49:12,910 --> 00:49:13,510
Brad: that's great.

865
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:15,520
And I think, I think that
that's really well said.

866
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:20,350
And w whether psychedelics or,
or other ways, I think that

867
00:49:20,350 --> 00:49:24,010
there are ways that adults can.

868
00:49:24,670 --> 00:49:32,320
Find that perspective and, and, and
evaluate, get outside of the, the normal

869
00:49:32,350 --> 00:49:36,700
neural canyons, that normal path, uh,
through the woods that, that we take.

870
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:47,290
and frankly I think like as I've
grown older and reconnected with

871
00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:52,240
things like music and art, I'm
like, oh, that's what that is for.

872
00:49:52,540 --> 00:49:53,740
That's what it's for.

873
00:49:54,070 --> 00:49:58,510
Like I always was like, oh, I like to
make pictures and I like to make music.

874
00:49:58,510 --> 00:49:59,290
And that's fun.

875
00:49:59,290 --> 00:50:04,135
I. And now I, what I'm realizing with
especially like kind of coming outta

876
00:50:04,135 --> 00:50:10,015
covid, going to those like first
concerts post COVI, you are taken to

877
00:50:10,015 --> 00:50:13,765
that place, that, that, that, that
same place that you're describing

878
00:50:13,765 --> 00:50:17,665
with, with psychedelics and there's
like, it is, it is a real presence.

879
00:50:17,695 --> 00:50:19,075
It is a real joy.

880
00:50:19,255 --> 00:50:23,005
There's a sense of connectedness, there's
a sense of elevation, there's a sense

881
00:50:23,005 --> 00:50:28,525
of, of like, we're all standing in this
room together, sharing this experience.

882
00:50:28,885 --> 00:50:36,760
And after being robbed of that for several
years, that hit me like a ton of bricks.

883
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:43,975
And, and just like you're saying to,
to, to focus there is, I mean, why

884
00:50:43,975 --> 00:50:48,865
we're talking now on this, the, the show
that's kind of like dedicated, I think

885
00:50:48,865 --> 00:50:55,945
to this attitude and I, it, and it's like
there's a real importance that I think.

886
00:50:56,965 --> 00:50:58,675
need to be reminded of.

887
00:50:58,705 --> 00:51:00,925
And that's what, that's
what the arts are for.

888
00:51:00,925 --> 00:51:06,955
That's what these things that aren't part
of your just everyday lived experience,

889
00:51:06,955 --> 00:51:11,995
that, that running through the motions,
that's, that is where the trap can lie.

890
00:51:12,175 --> 00:51:16,015
Even for creative professionals like
us, like, or for people that, like we,

891
00:51:16,315 --> 00:51:20,995
we flex these muscles more than a lot
of people, but it's like, yeah, I mean

892
00:51:21,835 --> 00:51:26,335
it's such like a, a trope, but at the
same time it's like, yeah, people get

893
00:51:26,335 --> 00:51:29,995
in their car and they go commute to work
and then like the next thing, you know,

894
00:51:29,995 --> 00:51:35,305
like 15 years them by and they're just
like, wait, what, what, what was I doing?

895
00:51:35,395 --> 00:51:35,845
Right?

896
00:51:36,055 --> 00:51:40,015
And that's where I think
that those why the arts.

897
00:51:40,975 --> 00:51:42,385
are so important.

898
00:51:42,685 --> 00:51:47,185
Uh, and, and there are other ways to
it, but I do feel like there are these

899
00:51:47,185 --> 00:51:53,515
just different modalities or different,
different ways jolting us out of our,

900
00:51:53,575 --> 00:52:00,955
our normal routine that end up that
kind of shift off of the normal walking

901
00:52:00,955 --> 00:52:06,775
path and, and into a place or at least
has us reevaluating or evaluating

902
00:52:06,775 --> 00:52:08,365
like, wait, why am I on this path?

903
00:52:08,365 --> 00:52:10,945
Am I, am I enjoying this, this journey?

904
00:52:10,945 --> 00:52:16,675
Or, or does this just feel, I
feel stuck or do I feel like, do

905
00:52:16,675 --> 00:52:19,015
I feel okay or do I feel great?

906
00:52:19,765 --> 00:52:23,515
kind of bringing this all back to like
the people sort of like bathing in the, in

907
00:52:23,515 --> 00:52:27,475
the guilt and bathing into despair and in
the doom scrolling and all of that stuff.

908
00:52:28,525 --> 00:52:30,085
You don't get that time back.

909
00:52:31,015 --> 00:52:32,665
You don't get that time back.

910
00:52:32,905 --> 00:52:37,405
And as the, the, the days have turned
into months have turned into years

911
00:52:37,405 --> 00:52:39,355
and are now turning into decades.

912
00:52:40,525 --> 00:52:46,705
The people waiting for permission to
reclaim that joy and reclaim happiness.

913
00:52:47,455 --> 00:52:49,225
It's like you, you lost it.

914
00:52:49,225 --> 00:52:55,915
Like you l you allowed yourself to
lose this point, since 2016, almost

915
00:52:55,915 --> 00:53:03,265
a decade of your life to, uh, other
people's shitty attitude and other

916
00:53:03,265 --> 00:53:04,825
people's shitty ways of being.

917
00:53:04,825 --> 00:53:05,695
And I, and I get it.

918
00:53:05,695 --> 00:53:08,275
It's like, it's bad,
it's wrong and whatever.

919
00:53:08,755 --> 00:53:12,685
There's a lot of concerning things and
that's, I think maybe something I'd love

920
00:53:12,685 --> 00:53:17,755
to like pick at with you is just like,
'cause I've, I fall into this, this trap

921
00:53:17,755 --> 00:53:23,575
a little bit, or not a trap, but like,
something that I try to reconcile is

922
00:53:23,575 --> 00:53:29,605
that this kind of positivity, optimism,
hope, all of the good things that

923
00:53:29,605 --> 00:53:34,582
we've been talking about Can't come
across as, as, as like dismissive or

924
00:53:34,582 --> 00:53:42,622
uncaring for the, the real hard things
happening in the world, happening in

925
00:53:42,622 --> 00:53:45,202
society, happening even in our own lives.

926
00:53:45,502 --> 00:53:45,832
Right.

927
00:53:45,832 --> 00:53:48,652
And it's like, I know that isn't true.

928
00:53:49,342 --> 00:53:53,872
And, and I could feel it in my bones
that it's not true that I care very

929
00:53:53,872 --> 00:53:55,642
deeply about all of this stuff.

930
00:53:55,642 --> 00:53:59,992
In fact, I, I feel that this is, as
we've already kind of covered, it's like

931
00:53:59,992 --> 00:54:03,772
this is an important way to fight that.

932
00:54:04,432 --> 00:54:08,632
But like, I'm curious if you feel that
at all, like where it's like this,

933
00:54:09,592 --> 00:54:16,822
like you feel so juxtaposed against the
negative that it, it almost feels like,

934
00:54:17,153 --> 00:54:17,828
Jessica Hische: I, and
I get what you mean.

935
00:54:17,858 --> 00:54:25,808
I think what I would say to that is I
think everybody has their fight to fight.

936
00:54:26,288 --> 00:54:30,398
You know, like everybody has the cause
that lights the fire within them.

937
00:54:30,908 --> 00:54:35,378
You know, and whatever that is for each
person is gonna be super different.

938
00:54:35,678 --> 00:54:40,628
Like some people are kicked up about
women's rights, some people are kicked

939
00:54:40,628 --> 00:54:44,258
up about immigrant rights, some people
are kicked up about Ukraine, some

940
00:54:44,258 --> 00:54:45,788
people are kicked up about Palestine.

941
00:54:46,028 --> 00:54:49,328
You know, like everybody's got
their thing that has triggered

942
00:54:49,328 --> 00:54:52,778
them, that has like lit the fire
in them of like, this is my thing.

943
00:54:52,778 --> 00:54:54,038
This will not stand.

944
00:54:54,128 --> 00:54:55,598
I must be for this thing.

945
00:54:55,988 --> 00:55:00,128
And I think it's just important
to remember that each person has

946
00:55:00,188 --> 00:55:05,408
the cause that they are the most
excited to fight against, you know?

947
00:55:05,768 --> 00:55:09,788
And so I think with like the
positivity thing, the biggest

948
00:55:09,788 --> 00:55:15,608
thing for me is focusing on
local, immediate community stuff.

949
00:55:15,938 --> 00:55:17,258
Because I think that.

950
00:55:17,648 --> 00:55:22,178
My, my big thing right now is
that like all of this work from

951
00:55:22,178 --> 00:55:26,408
home post Covid stuff has like
destroyed all local businesses.

952
00:55:26,708 --> 00:55:31,118
You know, like it's just had such an
immense impact of local communities,

953
00:55:31,418 --> 00:55:36,128
of how people get together, of people's
connectivity to each other and all that

954
00:55:36,128 --> 00:55:40,568
I wanna do because I know I can have an
immediate impact that not only makes other

955
00:55:40,568 --> 00:55:43,898
people's life better, but it makes my life
better and it makes my kids' life better

956
00:55:44,138 --> 00:55:48,488
by just being way more engaged in my local
community and trying to create initiatives

957
00:55:48,518 --> 00:55:53,318
around getting the local community to
like be more connected and involved.

958
00:55:53,588 --> 00:55:56,078
And then what happens then
from that is that like.

959
00:55:57,053 --> 00:56:01,073
Local communities stand strong
against larger communities,

960
00:56:01,073 --> 00:56:02,753
against the largest communities.

961
00:56:02,963 --> 00:56:07,013
So like that's why it can feel really
good to be in California because

962
00:56:07,013 --> 00:56:10,703
everybody in California just sort
of agrees like, Hey, fuck all that.

963
00:56:10,973 --> 00:56:14,753
Like we, if we have to, we'll
just be an island unto ourselves.

964
00:56:14,783 --> 00:56:18,413
And you just kind of have this
understanding that we all are in this.

965
00:56:18,958 --> 00:56:22,648
And that we are not gonna let
that corrupt us or whatever.

966
00:56:22,648 --> 00:56:27,088
And it has to do with the fact that this
smaller community feels aligned against

967
00:56:27,088 --> 00:56:28,798
this bigger or bad thing, you know?

968
00:56:29,098 --> 00:56:32,128
And I think that's, so that's
my, that's where I'm at.

969
00:56:32,128 --> 00:56:33,928
But like everybody is really different.

970
00:56:33,928 --> 00:56:37,858
You know, like if you have a family
member that's been personally affected

971
00:56:37,858 --> 00:56:40,918
by something, if you have been personally
affected by something, you're gonna

972
00:56:40,918 --> 00:56:44,398
have a really different approach
to, like how to deal with all this.

973
00:56:44,598 --> 00:56:49,968
And I think the, the thing that gets
tricky is when people try to assign a

974
00:56:49,968 --> 00:56:57,168
value scale to the things that people
are upset about or are kicked up

975
00:56:57,168 --> 00:57:01,668
about, or care about, you know, like
by saying, oh, well you don't, you're

976
00:57:01,668 --> 00:57:05,808
not putting all your effort into this
other thing that is way more important.

977
00:57:05,808 --> 00:57:08,628
Therefore, what you are
doing doesn't have value.

978
00:57:08,628 --> 00:57:09,858
And that's just not true.

979
00:57:10,008 --> 00:57:13,818
You know, like you are gonna be
the most effective when fighting

980
00:57:13,818 --> 00:57:14,988
the fight that you care about.

981
00:57:15,378 --> 00:57:18,978
And so, like, don't try to fight
the fights that you don't all

982
00:57:18,978 --> 00:57:19,908
the way care about right now.

983
00:57:19,908 --> 00:57:22,308
You still care about them, but
they're just not the top fight.

984
00:57:22,728 --> 00:57:26,358
And so just, we only have so much
time, and so you have to just pick

985
00:57:26,358 --> 00:57:27,558
the fight that you're gonna win.

986
00:57:27,888 --> 00:57:30,044
So pick the fight that
you're ready to fight.

987
00:57:30,107 --> 00:57:30,317
Brad: Yeah.

988
00:57:30,317 --> 00:57:32,117
It's, it's, it's really well said.

989
00:57:32,117 --> 00:57:36,257
And I think that that's a really
important reminder for people because

990
00:57:36,257 --> 00:57:39,887
I think that there is, there's, there's
kind of a, a narrative out there.

991
00:57:39,887 --> 00:57:43,787
There's the, you know, if, if
you're not outraged by this, then

992
00:57:43,787 --> 00:57:45,497
you're, you're part of the problem.

993
00:57:45,497 --> 00:57:48,287
And like all of that stuff,
like, that's a, a very, very

994
00:57:48,287 --> 00:57:50,597
dangerous mentality and stuff.

995
00:57:50,597 --> 00:57:53,537
And the fact of the matter is, is that.

996
00:57:53,957 --> 00:57:56,687
There, there is only so much of you.

997
00:57:56,717 --> 00:57:59,177
There's only so many hours in the day.

998
00:57:59,447 --> 00:58:04,847
If you are committed yourself fully
to, you know, uh, gun control or

999
00:58:04,847 --> 00:58:07,697
women's rights, that means that
you're not committing your full

1000
00:58:07,697 --> 00:58:10,277
self to preservation of coral reefs.

1001
00:58:10,487 --> 00:58:12,917
If you're preserving the coral
reefs, that means that you're

1002
00:58:12,917 --> 00:58:13,997
not fighting gun control.

1003
00:58:14,147 --> 00:58:19,427
Like there, there is only so much
of you, but like, because we are

1004
00:58:19,427 --> 00:58:25,097
just inundated, inundated and
it's just so loud and so noisy.

1005
00:58:25,427 --> 00:58:29,987
And I think it's a lot of that
sentiment is coming from a place

1006
00:58:30,017 --> 00:58:32,957
of, I feel this in my body.

1007
00:58:33,137 --> 00:58:34,847
I feel this in my soul.

1008
00:58:35,537 --> 00:58:37,217
know this to be important.

1009
00:58:37,637 --> 00:58:42,827
And that sentiment is a reflection
of their, their reaction to it.

1010
00:58:42,827 --> 00:58:47,117
So it's, it's understandable,
but it's not understandable to

1011
00:58:47,117 --> 00:58:49,712
expect other people to do it.

1012
00:58:49,932 --> 00:58:56,042
But it's like, so, so that I, I. My, my
take on it is it's like everyone has to

1013
00:58:56,042 --> 00:59:03,752
do their own work, and that often involves
taking a step away from the noise machine

1014
00:59:04,232 --> 00:59:09,422
in order to reconnect with, with their
values and what their life experience

1015
00:59:09,422 --> 00:59:14,462
and what their skills and unique gifts
and, and, passions and enthusiasms are.

1016
00:59:14,882 --> 00:59:15,212
And then.

1017
00:59:16,107 --> 00:59:20,427
will have a, a greater sense of
clarity and purpose to be able to

1018
00:59:20,427 --> 00:59:22,497
sort of move the needle forward.

1019
00:59:23,337 --> 00:59:27,057
And the surprising and kind of
cool thing is that there will be

1020
00:59:27,057 --> 00:59:32,247
byproducts of that that will end up
rippling out into these other fields.

1021
00:59:32,247 --> 00:59:36,687
Like if it's all grounded in,
in love, ultimately, these

1022
00:59:36,687 --> 00:59:38,337
things are interconnected.

1023
00:59:38,457 --> 00:59:42,357
These, all of these systems, all
living things are interconnected.

1024
00:59:42,807 --> 00:59:48,177
And that, like, it really does require
all of us moving and, and hitting things

1025
00:59:48,177 --> 00:59:53,397
from our respective angles to make
a difference to, to, to, to show up.

1026
00:59:53,397 --> 00:59:58,437
Like if we all pick a lane, it
means that the rest of the lane's

1027
00:59:58,437 --> 01:00:01,047
atrophy and, and bad things happen.

1028
01:00:01,047 --> 01:00:07,587
So it really does require this, this idea
of, um, I was just talking to somebody

1029
01:00:07,587 --> 01:00:13,677
that the, the word, I don't even know
if it's real, but istic is, is what

1030
01:00:13,677 --> 01:00:15,417
we're describing here, is this like.

1031
01:00:16,022 --> 01:00:20,642
Show up there, there is a
pluralism to how we show up.

1032
01:00:20,642 --> 01:00:22,712
And we could all sort
of express our virtues.

1033
01:00:22,712 --> 01:00:25,262
We could all build love, we
could all build community, we

1034
01:00:25,262 --> 01:00:28,862
could all help in our own ways.

1035
01:00:29,642 --> 01:00:33,422
that like your way is going
to be different than my way.

1036
01:00:33,422 --> 01:00:34,532
And that's okay.

1037
01:00:34,592 --> 01:00:38,436
So long as we're all,
good things together.

1038
01:00:38,466 --> 01:00:39,726
Like that's, that's it.

1039
01:00:40,416 --> 01:00:41,646
And I think we could appreciate that.

1040
01:00:41,676 --> 01:00:43,596
Like we, we could learn
to appreciate that.

1041
01:00:44,025 --> 01:00:44,205
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

1042
01:00:44,265 --> 01:00:47,441
I think one of the biggest
things too is that, it's really

1043
01:00:47,441 --> 01:00:50,231
difficult to make big changes.

1044
01:00:50,408 --> 01:00:53,588
for one organization or one
person to make really big changes.

1045
01:00:53,828 --> 01:00:56,658
'cause I was, I was having a conversation
with someone about this, about like

1046
01:00:56,743 --> 01:00:59,923
initiatives on a city level or like,
you know, stuff that's meant to like,

1047
01:01:00,223 --> 01:01:02,263
address like really systemic problems.

1048
01:01:02,563 --> 01:01:07,033
But the issue is, is that it takes a
lot of people, a lot of time to come

1049
01:01:07,033 --> 01:01:10,573
up with a plan, and then they have
to start rolling out the plan, and

1050
01:01:10,573 --> 01:01:12,223
they roll out the plan bit by bit.

1051
01:01:12,403 --> 01:01:15,523
But as they're rolling out the plan,
there's other groups that are going,

1052
01:01:15,523 --> 01:01:17,503
this plan isn't happening fast enough.

1053
01:01:17,563 --> 01:01:21,673
We're gonna put together another new
plan of how to address this system.

1054
01:01:21,913 --> 01:01:23,293
And then everyone goes, you're right.

1055
01:01:23,293 --> 01:01:24,463
That's not happening fast enough.

1056
01:01:24,463 --> 01:01:27,313
Because 5% of that first
plan has only rolled out.

1057
01:01:27,553 --> 01:01:30,883
So then a new plan, plan goes into
place that then starts from zero.

1058
01:01:31,033 --> 01:01:34,993
And what happens is when people
do this, when people try to always

1059
01:01:34,993 --> 01:01:38,953
address it from the top down, they're
putting forth these huge systemic

1060
01:01:38,953 --> 01:01:41,713
changes and only getting 10 to 15%.

1061
01:01:42,043 --> 01:01:42,553
Done.

1062
01:01:42,613 --> 01:01:44,683
And then all of a sudden
everybody has a big rebellion

1063
01:01:44,683 --> 01:01:45,883
and says Not enough is happening.

1064
01:01:46,033 --> 01:01:47,713
So it never gets to a hundred percent.

1065
01:01:47,983 --> 01:01:51,763
Whereas if you just tackle small
problems bit by bit and just work through

1066
01:01:51,763 --> 01:01:53,443
them, you can actually get stuff done.

1067
01:01:53,653 --> 01:01:58,333
And so like, I think that's another
thing to remember is like that all this

1068
01:01:58,333 --> 01:02:02,383
stuff that we're talking about is just
about like taking action now and setting

1069
01:02:02,383 --> 01:02:04,633
yourself up in a way to take action.

1070
01:02:04,843 --> 01:02:08,503
You know, like building up your personal
reserves, getting yourself kicked up about

1071
01:02:08,503 --> 01:02:12,493
a thing, doing a thing that you can have
immediate impact on, even if it's small.

1072
01:02:12,493 --> 01:02:15,403
And understand that many small
things equals one big thing.

1073
01:02:15,673 --> 01:02:15,913
You know?

1074
01:02:15,913 --> 01:02:19,381
Because a lot of times when you try
to do one big thing, It's really

1075
01:02:19,381 --> 01:02:22,501
difficult to roll out that whole
thing because people always wanna

1076
01:02:22,501 --> 01:02:23,731
come up with the new big thing.

1077
01:02:23,911 --> 01:02:26,731
They wanna be in charge of the new
big thing they want, you know, like

1078
01:02:26,851 --> 01:02:29,311
everybody's got different ideas of
what the new big thing should be and

1079
01:02:29,311 --> 01:02:30,931
it's just really hard to do that.

1080
01:02:31,231 --> 01:02:34,621
And it just, you just see it over and
over again where people have these

1081
01:02:34,621 --> 01:02:38,341
really grand plans and they never get
a chance to actually actualize them

1082
01:02:38,341 --> 01:02:40,591
because be because everyone's impatient.

1083
01:02:40,591 --> 01:02:43,381
And by the time they start rolling
it out, other people are like,

1084
01:02:43,381 --> 01:02:44,521
well, clearly this wasn't working.

1085
01:02:44,521 --> 01:02:45,631
We've gotta rethink it all.

1086
01:02:46,018 --> 01:02:46,438
Brad: yeah.

1087
01:02:46,498 --> 01:02:48,088
No, that, that's exactly it.

1088
01:02:48,088 --> 01:02:50,908
And I can't help but think like that our.

1089
01:02:51,191 --> 01:02:54,761
Media landscape contributes to that.

1090
01:02:54,761 --> 01:02:57,611
It's like, again, like the,
the woes of the world are

1091
01:02:57,611 --> 01:03:00,251
showing up to our screens 24 7.

1092
01:03:01,061 --> 01:03:07,728
so we feel like we need to react and act,
in equal measure, which is, oh yeah, we

1093
01:03:07,728 --> 01:03:14,088
gotta solve these big wicked problems
and wouldn't, you know it, I feel guilty

1094
01:03:14,148 --> 01:03:16,688
and, uh, like I'm incapable of doing.

1095
01:03:16,928 --> 01:03:20,018
It's, it's because you are
right, you are incapable

1096
01:03:20,071 --> 01:03:20,361
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

1097
01:03:20,498 --> 01:03:22,268
Brad: these, these big,
wicked problems, right?

1098
01:03:22,268 --> 01:03:26,918
So it's like, it's like we, we, we
have to like reframe our reactions

1099
01:03:26,918 --> 01:03:32,408
and our response to these like macro
level things with, like how you're

1100
01:03:32,408 --> 01:03:35,708
saying it just like this, just these
really like, kind of focused and,

1101
01:03:35,708 --> 01:03:37,628
and immediate and actionable things.

1102
01:03:38,045 --> 01:03:43,715
that is what any human
single person can do, undo.

1103
01:03:44,212 --> 01:03:44,992
That's beautiful.

1104
01:03:45,172 --> 01:03:45,742
That's great.

1105
01:03:46,180 --> 01:03:47,110
We need more of it.

1106
01:03:48,898 --> 01:03:49,318
Jessica Hische: agreed.

1107
01:03:49,983 --> 01:03:50,403
Agreed.

1108
01:03:50,598 --> 01:03:56,921
Brad: how have you felt that your
ambitions and priorities have changed?

1109
01:03:56,921 --> 01:03:59,951
We've already kind of like talked
about it with like, like the kids and

1110
01:03:59,951 --> 01:04:04,181
stuff, but even just in, into this more
like purposeful stuff, like there's

1111
01:04:04,661 --> 01:04:09,311
kind of like different seasons of
our career and, and life and stuff.

1112
01:04:09,311 --> 01:04:15,071
Like how, how have you felt
things shift for you and how

1113
01:04:15,071 --> 01:04:16,931
do you, like, feel about it?

1114
01:04:16,931 --> 01:04:21,851
Do you feel like a loss or do you
feel, uh, like it's just inevitable

1115
01:04:21,851 --> 01:04:22,841
and you're rolling with it?

1116
01:04:23,301 --> 01:04:28,469
Jessica Hische: don't, I feel like I've
been really able to recalibrate like every

1117
01:04:28,469 --> 01:04:32,999
few years based on what I want my life
to be like and what my interests are.

1118
01:04:33,359 --> 01:04:37,169
So for me now, my big
focus is sort of two.

1119
01:04:37,229 --> 01:04:39,689
It's really like the big focus now is.

1120
01:04:40,259 --> 01:04:45,179
How do I set myself up financially so
that I can do more things that are more

1121
01:04:45,179 --> 01:04:50,669
fun, like both workwise and lifewise,
you know, mostly workwise because a

1122
01:04:50,669 --> 01:04:55,709
lot of, you know, the higher paying
projects are you working in a silo?

1123
01:04:55,709 --> 01:04:58,049
It's a, it's for like a big
commercial thing or whatever.

1124
01:04:58,139 --> 01:05:02,309
And the more fun things are things that
don't always pay the best, things that are

1125
01:05:02,309 --> 01:05:08,046
more like collaborations than they are,
client projects or, volunteerism through

1126
01:05:08,046 --> 01:05:10,056
design and work and that kind of thing.

1127
01:05:10,266 --> 01:05:15,096
And I feel like I always want to do those
things, but have a hard time balancing

1128
01:05:15,096 --> 01:05:19,596
it against needing to earn an income
for my family and stuff like that.

1129
01:05:19,926 --> 01:05:25,416
So just really trying to figure out
the way to make it so that I can do

1130
01:05:25,416 --> 01:05:28,896
more of those things in five years
and I can make more of my life's

1131
01:05:28,896 --> 01:05:30,966
focus around that, you know, like.

1132
01:05:31,296 --> 01:05:35,346
That I, it's not just about like
donating money to local organizations

1133
01:05:35,346 --> 01:05:39,906
and more just about like, what can I do
to actually do things like, you know,

1134
01:05:40,026 --> 01:05:46,446
can I turn studio works into, uh, have
a nonprofit where like I take my salary

1135
01:05:46,446 --> 01:05:49,686
and anything that goes beyond that goes
into a nonprofit that goes towards local

1136
01:05:49,686 --> 01:05:54,186
arts organizations or towards, you know,
grants or whatever, you know, like a

1137
01:05:54,186 --> 01:05:56,436
way to help sustain everybody else.

1138
01:05:56,826 --> 01:05:59,436
You know, I feel pretty
strongly about like.

1139
01:06:00,156 --> 01:06:03,186
Local retail and things like
that and how difficult it is.

1140
01:06:03,216 --> 01:06:04,836
It's like just almost impossible.

1141
01:06:05,076 --> 01:06:09,546
It would be amazing to just like be
able to have some sort of program to

1142
01:06:09,546 --> 01:06:11,886
help people do small scale retail.

1143
01:06:11,886 --> 01:06:15,366
Be knowing that it's not really a big
money maker, you know, that it's just

1144
01:06:15,366 --> 01:06:19,026
like a thing that you have to do, or
like, if you wanna do it, it's not

1145
01:06:19,026 --> 01:06:22,266
meant to be like your next career 'cause
it's really difficult to succeed at.

1146
01:06:22,686 --> 01:06:27,366
Um, but that, those things are
really amazing for local culture

1147
01:06:27,366 --> 01:06:29,886
and also just for personal reasons.

1148
01:06:30,276 --> 01:06:34,356
And so, I don't know, just like try
and I, I wanna figure out a way to

1149
01:06:34,356 --> 01:06:37,836
like take all the skills that I've
learned and resources that I have

1150
01:06:38,136 --> 01:06:39,726
and help other people with them.

1151
01:06:39,726 --> 01:06:43,506
But I also know that I need the
financial ability to do that.

1152
01:06:43,506 --> 01:06:45,276
And I don't wanna be
reliant on other people.

1153
01:06:45,396 --> 01:06:48,006
You know, like I don't want it to
be like setting up a thing where

1154
01:06:48,006 --> 01:06:50,556
there's donors and then board
members and blah, blah, blah.

1155
01:06:50,736 --> 01:06:54,366
Because I like it just, I don't know,
I just feel like people with lots

1156
01:06:54,366 --> 01:06:55,926
of money always screw things up.

1157
01:06:56,316 --> 01:06:56,676
So.

1158
01:06:58,528 --> 01:06:59,458
Brad: So it's true.

1159
01:07:00,388 --> 01:07:02,038
I lo I love what you're saying.

1160
01:07:02,038 --> 01:07:05,452
It's like, and this is a really
interesting, we'll say theme that's,

1161
01:07:05,452 --> 01:07:08,452
that's emerging on, this is something
that I spent a lot of time thinking

1162
01:07:08,452 --> 01:07:12,052
about as well, where it's like, you
know, like money is a tool, right?

1163
01:07:12,052 --> 01:07:18,622
And what you're describing is like, money
in this sense is a platform a way for

1164
01:07:18,622 --> 01:07:21,082
you to provide stability to your family.

1165
01:07:21,082 --> 01:07:21,802
And you wanna like.

1166
01:07:22,702 --> 01:07:28,252
like tick that box so that you could free
up your, your mental, you know, spiritual

1167
01:07:28,252 --> 01:07:31,582
energy to, to do more worthwhile things.

1168
01:07:31,582 --> 01:07:36,412
It's, it's, it's money is a
tool in that respect that can be

1169
01:07:36,412 --> 01:07:40,432
wielded to unlock many good things.

1170
01:07:40,693 --> 01:07:41,413
Jessica Hische: Absolutely.

1171
01:07:41,533 --> 01:07:44,893
Because I think too, like it just
depends on how you're using it, you know?

1172
01:07:45,043 --> 01:07:53,368
Because like city, like if you think about
how to effectively use money to do stuff.

1173
01:07:53,518 --> 01:07:57,508
Like there's certainly, like the city of
Oakland, which is where my studio is, is

1174
01:07:57,508 --> 01:08:00,388
not a very well organized city in general.

1175
01:08:00,388 --> 01:08:03,568
I think I can say that without
getting everybody upset.

1176
01:08:03,778 --> 01:08:06,718
And part of it is like they
end up having to charge.

1177
01:08:06,958 --> 01:08:09,028
They have to charge,
they, they charge a lot.

1178
01:08:09,058 --> 01:08:13,018
They have to charge a lot for things
like permits to do things or whatever, to

1179
01:08:13,018 --> 01:08:16,228
like make up for the fact that they just
like bleed money over all sorts of stuff.

1180
01:08:16,378 --> 01:08:19,918
So it's just like, there's certain
organizations where like more money

1181
01:08:19,918 --> 01:08:21,748
does not equal more effectiveness.

1182
01:08:22,348 --> 01:08:23,638
And actually, like I.

1183
01:08:23,735 --> 01:08:24,125
Brad: Yes.

1184
01:08:24,478 --> 01:08:27,808
Jessica Hische: out how to like
use money in a smart way is really

1185
01:08:27,808 --> 01:08:30,118
important and is really difficult to do.

1186
01:08:30,448 --> 01:08:35,908
And so I think like I wanna focus on
things like that, whereas I feel like

1187
01:08:36,358 --> 01:08:39,208
there's like plenty, I mean, there's
tons of organizations that you can

1188
01:08:39,208 --> 01:08:42,208
donate to and they use the money in
excellent ways and it's very useful.

1189
01:08:42,478 --> 01:08:46,948
Um, and so I'm not knocking nonprofits and
charities and stuff that already exist.

1190
01:08:47,158 --> 01:08:50,728
I'm just saying that like, if you're
thinking about direct contributions to

1191
01:08:50,728 --> 01:08:56,008
people, there's probably some really smart
ways to set that up where it actually

1192
01:08:56,008 --> 01:09:00,028
does have like a really big short-term
impact on both them and the community.

1193
01:09:00,298 --> 01:09:03,703
You know, like one of the things that
I was thinking about doing and this was

1194
01:09:03,703 --> 01:09:07,363
just, this is sort of a down the line
pipe dream in, in terms of doing something

1195
01:09:07,363 --> 01:09:13,513
that's a more nonprofit thing, is setting
up a fund that people can apply to to

1196
01:09:13,513 --> 01:09:16,543
host local events like community events.

1197
01:09:17,028 --> 01:09:22,368
So it's basically like you, you get a
grant to do a community event, which then

1198
01:09:22,458 --> 01:09:28,278
unlocks the community in terms of their
like presence with local retail and other

1199
01:09:28,308 --> 01:09:29,718
restaurants and all that kind of stuff.

1200
01:09:29,898 --> 01:09:33,138
So it's less about like giving
money to a person to do a thing and

1201
01:09:33,138 --> 01:09:37,728
more about like, if you are doing a
community related event, we will help

1202
01:09:37,728 --> 01:09:41,508
you file all your paperwork and we
will give you money to like set to

1203
01:09:41,508 --> 01:09:45,378
do rentals and, and permits and like
whatever, like that kind of thing.

1204
01:09:45,768 --> 01:09:49,788
Um, so it's like thinking about
ways where the money goes towards

1205
01:09:49,788 --> 01:09:53,568
something that's very immediate and
actionable and has ripple out impact

1206
01:09:53,568 --> 01:09:58,218
on the other local businesses and not
just on that one person's business.

1207
01:09:58,676 --> 01:09:59,516
Brad: Right, right.

1208
01:09:59,516 --> 01:10:04,856
It's like, here's this thing that's
like right now because it's just,

1209
01:10:04,886 --> 01:10:08,216
it's, it's harder than it needs to
be or just like out of the budget

1210
01:10:08,546 --> 01:10:10,646
of, of like a normal community.

1211
01:10:10,646 --> 01:10:13,766
So it's just like, here's, here's just
like this little push to just like

1212
01:10:13,766 --> 01:10:18,506
get the ball rolling on, on it, and
then you end up with this beautiful

1213
01:10:18,506 --> 01:10:22,586
ripple effect of, of people kind of
taking it and, and rolling with it.

1214
01:10:22,586 --> 01:10:23,186
That's great.

1215
01:10:23,606 --> 01:10:25,886
But, but I guess like, kind
of like back to, let's say

1216
01:10:25,886 --> 01:10:27,626
like personal finances though.

1217
01:10:27,656 --> 01:10:31,646
So hard to grieve with all of that
stuff, and that sounds great and I'm

1218
01:10:31,706 --> 01:10:33,506
looking forward to you making that.

1219
01:10:33,926 --> 01:10:37,354
But also like whe when it comes
to like your like personal.

1220
01:10:37,684 --> 01:10:42,514
Financial situation and it's like, okay,
you got a family and there's that, there's

1221
01:10:42,514 --> 01:10:47,104
that kind of like balancing act that tends
to happen where it's like, okay, like

1222
01:10:47,104 --> 01:10:52,924
what's our obligation to provide stability
for our own family versus like the, the

1223
01:10:52,924 --> 01:10:54,844
world at large and community at large.

1224
01:10:54,874 --> 01:10:58,144
And obviously like as your
financial situation changes,

1225
01:10:58,504 --> 01:11:00,274
so does that balance Right?

1226
01:11:00,664 --> 01:11:03,694
But I like what you were saying
earlier, 'cause it's, it's almost

1227
01:11:03,694 --> 01:11:07,924
like, it's not even about like the
money, like where do I point my money?

1228
01:11:08,224 --> 01:11:12,274
You're, I think you're really describing
like, where do I point my energy

1229
01:11:12,274 --> 01:11:18,124
and how could I free up my energy by
way of just kind of like taking care

1230
01:11:18,124 --> 01:11:20,524
of my personal financial situation.

1231
01:11:20,944 --> 01:11:26,644
Getting that almost kind of out of
the way so that you're free be able

1232
01:11:26,644 --> 01:11:31,714
to exercise your and point your
energy to these really important.

1233
01:11:32,089 --> 01:11:33,019
Projects, right?

1234
01:11:33,019 --> 01:11:36,769
That, that maybe it's not that you can't
trust other people with your money,

1235
01:11:36,769 --> 01:11:40,609
but it's like, no, you, you have ideas,
you have gifts, you have skills that

1236
01:11:40,707 --> 01:11:40,997
Jessica Hische: Yeah.

1237
01:11:41,149 --> 01:11:41,269
Brad: to

1238
01:11:41,292 --> 01:11:45,324
Jessica Hische: Well I think you've
been part of groups and organizations

1239
01:11:45,324 --> 01:11:49,319
and all kinds of things before where,
you know that like the main thing is

1240
01:11:49,319 --> 01:11:50,879
just getting people to follow through.

1241
01:11:51,549 --> 01:11:55,059
You know, like everyone's got
a lot of ideas and very few

1242
01:11:55,059 --> 01:11:56,229
people wanna follow through.

1243
01:11:56,229 --> 01:12:00,309
And part of it is because everybody
is just too busy, you know?

1244
01:12:00,309 --> 01:12:01,749
Like they got too much shit going on.

1245
01:12:01,749 --> 01:12:03,189
And that's kind of what happens.

1246
01:12:03,609 --> 01:12:05,469
And so I think like.

1247
01:12:05,844 --> 01:12:11,814
While I have the energy to do stuff, you
know, like I'm 40, I feel like I'm gonna

1248
01:12:11,814 --> 01:12:16,644
have a lot of energy until I'm like 55 or
60, and then I'm still gonna have energy,

1249
01:12:16,644 --> 01:12:18,474
but it's gonna start to taper, you know?

1250
01:12:18,474 --> 01:12:21,714
And I just feel like I've got
these, like two decades of,

1251
01:12:21,774 --> 01:12:24,174
of proper go get 'em energy.

1252
01:12:24,624 --> 01:12:27,864
And then I, I just wanna do as
much as I can during that time.

1253
01:12:27,864 --> 01:12:31,194
I wanna be the person who makes a
suggestion, then actually tries to do it.

1254
01:12:31,494 --> 01:12:34,554
You know, not the person who just
like talks about it and tries to get

1255
01:12:34,554 --> 01:12:38,244
someone else to do it that is not as
invested as me or whatever, you know?

1256
01:12:38,304 --> 01:12:41,424
And that's, that's really what it
is, is like, it's not, I'm saying

1257
01:12:41,424 --> 01:12:44,694
that I can do it better than someone,
it's just like very few people have

1258
01:12:44,694 --> 01:12:49,794
the ability and that attitude and
the tenacity to actually do stuff.

1259
01:12:49,824 --> 01:12:55,554
And I know that I'm one of those people,
um, just because I love just hammering

1260
01:12:55,554 --> 01:12:57,324
away at a thing and, and making it happen.

1261
01:12:57,324 --> 01:12:59,394
It's like, it's really thrilling to me.

1262
01:12:59,604 --> 01:13:01,074
And so I wanted.

1263
01:13:01,464 --> 01:13:02,574
Make myself more.

1264
01:13:02,664 --> 01:13:06,714
I wanna be like, I want people to be
able to use me in an effective way.

1265
01:13:06,894 --> 01:13:10,134
I wanna be, I wanna be a resource
to people, you know, like if

1266
01:13:10,134 --> 01:13:12,264
they have a thing they wanna
do, I'm like, how do we do it?

1267
01:13:12,264 --> 01:13:13,044
Let me help you do it.

1268
01:13:13,374 --> 01:13:17,694
And, but I do need to make sure
that we're not like, freaking

1269
01:13:17,694 --> 01:13:19,284
out financially as a family.

1270
01:13:19,824 --> 01:13:21,894
Like, you know, 'cause
I, you can't do that.

1271
01:13:21,894 --> 01:13:25,044
You can't like, give yourself to other
people if you're not taking care of the

1272
01:13:25,044 --> 01:13:28,404
people that you're in a, in a house with.

1273
01:13:28,884 --> 01:13:32,844
And so that doesn't mean that I need to
have like, crazy trust funds for the kids

1274
01:13:32,844 --> 01:13:36,384
or whatever, but it means that I should
probably start their college funds.

1275
01:13:36,654 --> 01:13:40,314
Like, you know, one of them is 10
this year, so it's probably time

1276
01:13:40,524 --> 01:13:42,684
to start a college fund, you know?

1277
01:13:43,224 --> 01:13:48,474
Uh, and like, not that it has to be all
the way saved or anything, but you know

1278
01:13:48,474 --> 01:13:52,704
that before I divert a lot of energy
into another space, I probably have to

1279
01:13:52,704 --> 01:13:57,924
make sure that my kids aren't complaining
about me in therapy, uh, in 10 years time.

1280
01:14:00,343 --> 01:14:02,563
Brad: But yeah, I, I think
that that's, that's well said.

1281
01:14:02,563 --> 01:14:07,629
And I think that that really like hits at
the, It's like, well-meaning altruistic.

1282
01:14:08,079 --> 01:14:13,449
It's kind of always feels weird to be
seemingly selfish, but it's like after

1283
01:14:13,449 --> 01:14:17,319
it's all said and done, it's like you
do need to take care of your family.

1284
01:14:17,319 --> 01:14:19,779
Like that is, that is the most
important thing you could do.

1285
01:14:19,959 --> 01:14:23,859
And that's ultimately like a good
thing for society writ large and for

1286
01:14:23,859 --> 01:14:27,399
your community that you are taking
care of your family and your kids.

1287
01:14:27,621 --> 01:14:30,651
there's kind of like a reframing
of like the selfishness, but Yeah.

1288
01:14:31,131 --> 01:14:31,881
A hundred percent.

1289
01:14:31,881 --> 01:14:32,091
Right.

1290
01:14:32,091 --> 01:14:37,431
It's like there's a difference between
that level of kind of pragmatic, like,

1291
01:14:37,851 --> 01:14:44,181
I've got mouth to feed and kids to put
through college and they have a trust fund

1292
01:14:44,181 --> 01:14:47,245
and we have a, a yacht and, and whatever,

1293
01:14:47,245 --> 01:14:47,995
Jessica Hische: exactly.

1294
01:14:47,995 --> 01:14:53,433
I think people have a hard time, parsing
the difference between wanting to have

1295
01:14:53,433 --> 01:14:58,983
a decent retirement fund just in case,
you know, like, I don't plan to retire.

1296
01:14:58,983 --> 01:15:02,403
I plan to work as long as I humanly can,
'cause my work is fun and enjoyable.

1297
01:15:02,585 --> 01:15:03,995
but who knows?

1298
01:15:04,025 --> 01:15:08,135
I mean, what if I like get physically
disabled and I can't do that anymore?

1299
01:15:08,315 --> 01:15:11,045
Like, I have to, you have
to like set yourself up.

1300
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:15,260
Like, what if one of us ends up
being a solo parent because something

1301
01:15:15,260 --> 01:15:16,790
tragic happens to the other person.

1302
01:15:16,790 --> 01:15:18,950
What if one of the kids has a problem?

1303
01:15:18,950 --> 01:15:20,510
Like, you just don't know.

1304
01:15:20,510 --> 01:15:22,910
I mean it, like all kinds
of stuff can happen.

1305
01:15:23,150 --> 01:15:26,660
So there always has to be buffer,
but there's a real difference between

1306
01:15:26,660 --> 01:15:32,480
like being practical and safe and
planning for like potential hardship

1307
01:15:32,660 --> 01:15:38,930
that might happen or might not happen
versus like hoarding like money and

1308
01:15:38,930 --> 01:15:40,550
sitting on top of a pile of emeralds.

1309
01:15:40,580 --> 01:15:43,970
Like it's a very different thing,
you know, like at a certain point

1310
01:15:44,330 --> 01:15:47,180
everybody will be fine, like you
can just start giving it away.

1311
01:15:47,458 --> 01:15:52,438
yeah, I mean, just getting to the
point where everyone would be fine

1312
01:15:52,498 --> 01:15:56,638
if I got knocked out or if Russ got
knocked out or if one of the kids

1313
01:15:56,638 --> 01:15:58,048
got knocked out or like whatever.

1314
01:15:58,168 --> 01:16:01,138
Just like getting it to the point
where we'd survive as a family.

1315
01:16:01,348 --> 01:16:02,968
We wouldn't have to go bankrupt.

1316
01:16:03,208 --> 01:16:05,608
We'd be able to like take care of.

1317
01:16:05,923 --> 01:16:09,763
A big problem that happened and it
wouldn't be an incredible hardship.

1318
01:16:10,003 --> 01:16:10,903
That's all that I want.

1319
01:16:10,903 --> 01:16:13,993
And then anything, once we have
that, those assurances, anything

1320
01:16:13,993 --> 01:16:17,053
beyond that that doesn't need
to get saved up, that's fine.

1321
01:16:17,173 --> 01:16:19,869
That can go towards cool, helpful things.

1322
01:16:20,329 --> 01:16:21,109
Brad: Uh, that's great.

1323
01:16:21,201 --> 01:16:24,471
I wanna touch on something
and then, uh, looking at the

1324
01:16:24,559 --> 01:16:24,679
Jessica Hische: I.

1325
01:16:24,741 --> 01:16:29,391
Brad: we should probably wrap up soon,
but I really like what you're describing.

1326
01:16:29,726 --> 01:16:33,356
you've done it a couple times,
you've put yourself 10 years down

1327
01:16:33,356 --> 01:16:37,466
the road, 15 years down the road and,
and also saying, yeah, I just wanna

1328
01:16:37,466 --> 01:16:39,656
work for as, as long as possible.

1329
01:16:39,883 --> 01:16:42,673
how do you think about that?

1330
01:16:42,673 --> 01:16:47,803
And also like how, in that same
lens of like the longevity of your

1331
01:16:48,853 --> 01:16:54,050
and, and creative life, the breadth
and depth of that creativity.

1332
01:16:54,050 --> 01:17:00,080
Like, like you've already turned
over a lot of stones, uh, in the

1333
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,600
creative realm, which is awesome.

1334
01:17:03,290 --> 01:17:09,530
Um, and I guess like how do you see
that breadth and depth, like how have,

1335
01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:13,370
how have you, how do you describe
that and how do you like, see that

1336
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:15,830
changing in the, in the coming decades?

1337
01:17:15,830 --> 01:17:15,860
I.

1338
01:17:16,467 --> 01:17:20,442
Jessica Hische: Yeah, I think I,
you know, I've been much more of

1339
01:17:20,562 --> 01:17:23,157
a designer and commercial artist.

1340
01:17:23,157 --> 01:17:28,572
I. Um, because for most of my life I have
felt like I've needed permission to make

1341
01:17:28,572 --> 01:17:34,362
things, you know, like I need a brief, I
need someone asking me to solve a problem.

1342
01:17:34,692 --> 01:17:39,132
Um, and that makes me excited and
gives me permission to make stuff.

1343
01:17:39,522 --> 01:17:41,712
And so it's kind of a mix of that.

1344
01:17:41,922 --> 01:17:45,822
And then also coming up with my own
things, which usually have to do with

1345
01:17:46,122 --> 01:17:50,502
me learning a little bit of a new skill
and wanting a way to practically apply

1346
01:17:50,502 --> 01:17:54,972
that skill or trying to like work in
a certain way or think a certain way.

1347
01:17:55,182 --> 01:17:58,932
And so it's like projects end up
being the way that I'm like, oh, I

1348
01:17:58,932 --> 01:18:02,682
really like doing this one thing,
so I'm gonna come up with a way that

1349
01:18:02,682 --> 01:18:04,032
I can do that thing for a while.

1350
01:18:04,572 --> 01:18:12,342
Um, and so that all is still gonna
exist, but I think like I would, I

1351
01:18:12,342 --> 01:18:16,812
do want to be a person who can like,
loosen up a little bit more in terms

1352
01:18:16,812 --> 01:18:20,112
of how I create and, you know, like.

1353
01:18:20,637 --> 01:18:24,597
Try new things and get a little sloppy
and get a little bit more experimental

1354
01:18:24,837 --> 01:18:29,577
and maybe like exist in the world as
a bit more of an artist and, and a bit

1355
01:18:29,577 --> 01:18:32,007
less as a commercial artist designer.

1356
01:18:32,457 --> 01:18:36,147
Um, I don't know when, and if that'll
happen, if it'll ever happen, like

1357
01:18:36,147 --> 01:18:39,477
maybe things will just totally keep
shifting and I'll just keep getting

1358
01:18:39,477 --> 01:18:43,917
more and more like problem solving and
pragmatic and whatever, like, who knows?

1359
01:18:44,232 --> 01:18:46,932
But that's one path that it could go down.

1360
01:18:46,992 --> 01:18:47,712
I'm not sure.

1361
01:18:47,862 --> 01:18:51,732
I also would love to teach more
'cause I like, uh, being around

1362
01:18:51,732 --> 01:18:54,762
young people and, uh, that's fun.

1363
01:18:55,032 --> 01:18:57,882
Like, I, I love that and I haven't
been able to do that because I

1364
01:18:57,882 --> 01:19:01,422
just have been too busy and haven't
been able to pin down and whatever.

1365
01:19:01,632 --> 01:19:04,662
So I wanna, I would love to
do that more as I get older,

1366
01:19:04,662 --> 01:19:05,742
and that would be really fun.

1367
01:19:06,252 --> 01:19:14,262
Um, also just like hoarding uh, maker
equipment and doing a lot of stuff with

1368
01:19:14,262 --> 01:19:17,952
that and letting other people use all
my maker equipment that's, that's big.

1369
01:19:17,982 --> 01:19:21,672
Like Russ wants like to get some
sort of workshop space at some

1370
01:19:21,672 --> 01:19:24,432
point when he doesn't have to work
in tech anymore so that we can just

1371
01:19:24,432 --> 01:19:28,092
like accrue a bunch of maker shit
and just like let people use it.

1372
01:19:28,572 --> 01:19:30,042
Um, I don't know.

1373
01:19:30,042 --> 01:19:36,942
I feel like my, my thing for my whole
career has just been about helping people.

1374
01:19:37,115 --> 01:19:42,966
both myself and other people, helping
them get unstuck and getting them excited

1375
01:19:42,966 --> 01:19:46,476
to like, make stuff and not feel like it
needs to be this whole intimidating thing.

1376
01:19:46,806 --> 01:19:49,386
And I feel like that's just
gonna translate into different

1377
01:19:49,386 --> 01:19:50,676
things as I get older.

1378
01:19:50,676 --> 01:19:55,986
Like whether that's like I'm doing
it through money ways, by setting up

1379
01:19:56,316 --> 01:20:00,606
like scholarships or like whatever, or
whether I'm doing that through youth

1380
01:20:00,606 --> 01:20:06,546
programs or through arts programs or
through like having a maker space that

1381
01:20:06,546 --> 01:20:08,016
people have access to or like whatever.

1382
01:20:08,016 --> 01:20:13,806
It's just about like, how do I break
down the friction to make making stuff

1383
01:20:13,806 --> 01:20:15,726
for everyone and for myself, you know?

1384
01:20:15,786 --> 01:20:18,396
Like I think that's, that's
kind of the biggest thing.

1385
01:20:19,056 --> 01:20:23,136
Um, so I think that's just gonna
always be, that's just always

1386
01:20:23,136 --> 01:20:24,486
gonna be part of it, you know?

1387
01:20:24,486 --> 01:20:28,386
And it's just gonna have different
forms, you know, it's just gonna

1388
01:20:28,386 --> 01:20:30,816
take different shapes as I get older.

1389
01:20:32,098 --> 01:20:33,688
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1390
01:20:33,688 --> 01:20:37,678
It's like that's the, that's the
winning formula that you've already

1391
01:20:37,678 --> 01:20:43,228
demonstrated in many realms and to just
point that formula at, at different

1392
01:20:43,228 --> 01:20:48,688
things and open up doors for more
people to make things that's beautiful.

1393
01:20:48,778 --> 01:20:50,128
Absolutely beautiful.

1394
01:20:50,226 --> 01:20:53,526
Jessica Hische: to to, to bring
it back to the kid convo too.

1395
01:20:53,526 --> 01:20:57,217
I've been one of the things, and you
can validate this 'cause it's a hundred

1396
01:20:57,217 --> 01:21:01,537
percent true, whereas like people are
bored and exactly who they are, right.

1397
01:21:01,537 --> 01:21:05,617
You know, like they come into this
world and they are fully formed people.

1398
01:21:06,067 --> 01:21:10,987
And so my big thing about parenting
is the only thing that you can do

1399
01:21:11,047 --> 01:21:17,497
to impact your kids is to either
add friction or remove friction on

1400
01:21:17,497 --> 01:21:19,327
the path of who they're becoming.

1401
01:21:19,972 --> 01:21:20,362
Right.

1402
01:21:20,572 --> 01:21:26,092
So as a parent, you are either throwing
things in their path and preventing

1403
01:21:26,092 --> 01:21:30,892
them from taking that path, and they
have to go around your obstacles to

1404
01:21:30,892 --> 01:21:35,392
get to where they're ultimately gonna
be, or you're actively removing the

1405
01:21:35,392 --> 01:21:38,992
things that are in their path for
them and helping them through that.

1406
01:21:39,232 --> 01:21:44,872
And I think that like having that approach
to parenting and understanding that like

1407
01:21:44,872 --> 01:21:50,122
people are, whoever they're gonna be and
everybody has different blocks, and the

1408
01:21:50,122 --> 01:21:53,842
whole thing is identifying those blocks
and helping them move them outta the way.

1409
01:21:54,172 --> 01:21:57,202
You know, like whether I can
physically move them out myself or

1410
01:21:57,202 --> 01:22:00,202
I can show them how to move it out
and like that's the whole thing.

1411
01:22:00,232 --> 01:22:03,982
And so I think it's like, it's both
like a parenting thing, but then also

1412
01:22:03,982 --> 01:22:06,532
just like a general creative life thing.

1413
01:22:06,532 --> 01:22:10,042
Is that like identifying the, that
we're all on a different path and

1414
01:22:10,042 --> 01:22:14,302
everybody's got different blocks and
that we can actually go and help remove

1415
01:22:14,302 --> 01:22:17,692
those blocks or teach people how to
push their own blocks aside, you know?

1416
01:22:18,574 --> 01:22:20,044
Brad: Yeah, a hundred percent.

1417
01:22:20,044 --> 01:22:21,814
And I'm sure you get it all the time.

1418
01:22:21,814 --> 01:22:23,794
It's like, how do I do what you do?

1419
01:22:24,248 --> 01:22:24,668
And

1420
01:22:24,921 --> 01:22:25,201
Jessica Hische: Yeah,

1421
01:22:25,598 --> 01:22:28,958
Brad: younger people or people that
look up to you and it's like, it's

1422
01:22:28,958 --> 01:22:32,659
like, how do it's exactly what you
described with your, with your kids.

1423
01:22:32,659 --> 01:22:35,734
It's like have your own version of this.

1424
01:22:35,929 --> 01:22:37,099
It's not going to look.

1425
01:22:37,474 --> 01:22:39,604
Like me, you are not going to be me.

1426
01:22:39,604 --> 01:22:44,014
You're going to be you, and
you have no choice to be you.

1427
01:22:44,022 --> 01:22:44,382
Jessica Hische: yeah,

1428
01:22:44,524 --> 01:22:44,884
Brad: Right.

1429
01:22:44,884 --> 01:22:46,054
So best get to it.

1430
01:22:46,054 --> 01:22:46,534
Right?

1431
01:22:48,252 --> 01:22:48,582
Jessica Hische: yeah.

1432
01:22:48,672 --> 01:22:52,062
That's why like the thing that's kind
of funny is like the whole idea of

1433
01:22:52,062 --> 01:22:54,582
like a family business, you know, like.

1434
01:22:55,482 --> 01:22:59,412
If you think about passing down your
family business to your kids, it's

1435
01:22:59,412 --> 01:23:02,772
like that's just assuming that they're
built just like you, if they're

1436
01:23:02,772 --> 01:23:04,212
gonna have the same role as you.

1437
01:23:04,422 --> 01:23:08,172
Whereas like they, like the reason
why family businesses don't always

1438
01:23:08,172 --> 01:23:10,932
last multiple generations is
because you're basically having

1439
01:23:10,932 --> 01:23:14,052
your kids fall into a role that
they're not necessarily built for.

1440
01:23:14,382 --> 01:23:19,332
But if the idea of the family business
is, Hey, this is the thing I've

1441
01:23:19,332 --> 01:23:22,812
built, what role in it could you have?

1442
01:23:23,082 --> 01:23:26,202
You know, like what would get
you excited that would make

1443
01:23:26,202 --> 01:23:27,702
you wanna participate in this?

1444
01:23:28,062 --> 01:23:29,592
That's a totally different thing.

1445
01:23:29,652 --> 01:23:33,432
You know, like it's not all about,
you know, handing down the ownership.

1446
01:23:33,432 --> 01:23:36,012
It could just be about handing
down part of it that they

1447
01:23:36,132 --> 01:23:37,812
get excited about, you know?

1448
01:23:37,812 --> 01:23:38,862
So I, I don't know.

1449
01:23:38,862 --> 01:23:39,462
I think it's.

1450
01:23:39,912 --> 01:23:44,232
It's just very interesting
and it's fun to model.

1451
01:23:44,292 --> 01:23:46,992
Like a lot of the things, like,
that's my favorite thing too,

1452
01:23:46,992 --> 01:23:49,002
is just like living my life.

1453
01:23:49,002 --> 01:23:51,822
How I hope that the kids live their life.

1454
01:23:52,302 --> 01:23:55,332
You know, if they see me working
after hours and make a comment

1455
01:23:55,332 --> 01:23:57,672
about how I'm working a lot, I'm
like, I'm only working right now

1456
01:23:57,702 --> 01:23:59,082
'cause I really love what I'm doing.

1457
01:23:59,112 --> 01:24:01,812
Like, you know, I'm just really excited
about this thing, so I just can't stop

1458
01:24:01,812 --> 01:24:03,282
working on it 'cause I'm excited about it.

1459
01:24:03,492 --> 01:24:07,242
And so I'll just be like, I hope
that you're excited about a thing to

1460
01:24:07,242 --> 01:24:10,242
the point where it's bedtime and you
have a hard time going to bed because

1461
01:24:10,242 --> 01:24:11,232
you just wanna work on the thing.

1462
01:24:11,382 --> 01:24:12,497
You know, like, we'll see.

1463
01:24:12,909 --> 01:24:13,419
Brad: percent.

1464
01:24:14,079 --> 01:24:14,889
hundred percent.

1465
01:24:14,919 --> 01:24:21,880
And, and, and that, enthusiasm
absolutely infectious, and your kids

1466
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:26,260
will benefit from it in the same way
that the rest of the community who

1467
01:24:26,260 --> 01:24:30,385
have, you know, who are familiar with
you and your work and all that you do.

1468
01:24:31,675 --> 01:24:34,825
Are also impacted in a positive way by it.

1469
01:24:34,885 --> 01:24:40,075
Uh, it's like that, that, that
outward facing, that broadcasting

1470
01:24:40,255 --> 01:24:42,835
of, of passion and enthusiasm is.

1471
01:24:43,765 --> 01:24:46,075
It's again, so, so important.

1472
01:24:46,165 --> 01:24:50,515
And that's why, again, kind of coming back
to this idea of, it's like in this moment

1473
01:24:50,515 --> 01:24:55,675
in time, I feel like there's a, there's
a constriction or, or there's a, there's

1474
01:24:55,675 --> 01:24:58,255
a, you, you can't, you can't do that.

1475
01:24:58,255 --> 01:25:02,545
You can't say that you can't, you can't,
uh, share those, those eight positive

1476
01:25:02,545 --> 01:25:05,275
things in, in this moment in time.

1477
01:25:05,275 --> 01:25:10,345
It's like, no, it's actually imperative
for you to, to do that because people need

1478
01:25:10,345 --> 01:25:14,125
to be reminded that these things exist.

1479
01:25:14,125 --> 01:25:19,555
That they can, that they have agency, that
they have that same spirit inside of them,

1480
01:25:19,855 --> 01:25:26,185
even if it is dormant or even if it, if
it's underutilized, you're helping give

1481
01:25:26,185 --> 01:25:29,875
them permission to exercise those muscles.

1482
01:25:29,875 --> 01:25:32,335
And, and that's, that's
a really important gift.

1483
01:25:32,626 --> 01:25:36,586
I cannot believe that we made
it this entire time without

1484
01:25:36,586 --> 01:25:40,336
digging into music in any real

1485
01:25:40,374 --> 01:25:40,854
Jessica Hische: yeah.

1486
01:25:40,996 --> 01:25:46,771
Brad: Uh, aside from just glancing on
it, I would love to hear what music you

1487
01:25:46,771 --> 01:25:49,231
think more people should know about.

1488
01:25:49,808 --> 01:25:53,558
Jessica Hische: So it's a bit of a
tricky one because I am the world's most

1489
01:25:53,558 --> 01:25:58,538
nostalgic person, and I just listen to the
same shit over and over and over again.

1490
01:25:58,980 --> 01:26:01,410
there's a, there's one thing I feel
like everyone should know about,

1491
01:26:01,410 --> 01:26:06,889
which is that you can search,
Spotify for playlists based on BPM.

1492
01:26:07,407 --> 01:26:09,657
so that is a, a fun tool.

1493
01:26:09,687 --> 01:26:15,627
So I do sprinting at the gym, and so I'm
always looking at the one 90 BPM lists and

1494
01:26:15,837 --> 01:26:22,257
finding music based on things that are one
90 BPM, which I find to be really helpful.

1495
01:26:23,116 --> 01:26:27,856
And then let me look into
my, my recent liked songs.

1496
01:26:29,026 --> 01:26:33,646
Um, oh, I really liked the band
Bronco, and they're young and touring.

1497
01:26:34,006 --> 01:26:36,046
They're very fun, big into them.

1498
01:26:36,198 --> 01:26:41,808
there's also a band named Fiddler,
which is like a kind of drunk

1499
01:26:41,808 --> 01:26:44,118
teenage band, and I love them a lot.

1500
01:26:44,118 --> 01:26:44,628
Right now.

1501
01:26:44,748 --> 01:26:47,748
I can't play them in the car with
my kids 'cause they curse too much.

1502
01:26:48,092 --> 01:26:52,712
But no, I just listen to the same
tired music over and over again.

1503
01:26:53,499 --> 01:26:53,739
Brad: That's

1504
01:26:53,912 --> 01:26:54,332
Jessica Hische: So

1505
01:26:54,999 --> 01:26:55,539
Brad: That's not

1506
01:26:55,832 --> 01:26:56,942
Jessica Hische: I'm a creature of habit.

1507
01:26:57,532 --> 01:26:59,122
Brad: Well, I, I think we all are.

1508
01:26:59,122 --> 01:27:01,792
And there's, there's
definitely back to those neural

1509
01:27:02,070 --> 01:27:02,190
Jessica Hische: I,

1510
01:27:02,452 --> 01:27:05,602
Brad: There's, there's a lot of
science that backs that stuff up.

1511
01:27:05,602 --> 01:27:06,052
Why?

1512
01:27:06,112 --> 01:27:06,832
Why We kind of

1513
01:27:07,065 --> 01:27:07,335
Jessica Hische: yeah.

1514
01:27:07,372 --> 01:27:09,562
Brad: those, those rhythms.

1515
01:27:09,562 --> 01:27:13,822
But I, I would give yourself more
credit based on our other conversations.

1516
01:27:13,822 --> 01:27:17,182
You, you, your finger on the
pulse more than most, so.

1517
01:27:18,982 --> 01:27:19,942
All right, well, cool.

1518
01:27:19,942 --> 01:27:23,632
Um, any like, last things, uh,
you wanna, you wanna plug where

1519
01:27:23,632 --> 01:27:25,462
could people find you and, uh,

1520
01:27:25,712 --> 01:27:28,128
Jessica Hische: Well, should
definitely sign up at Studio

1521
01:27:28,128 --> 01:27:30,318
Works app for our new thing.

1522
01:27:30,318 --> 01:27:31,458
We're still pre-launch.

1523
01:27:31,488 --> 01:27:35,418
Um, and then the community, if you
don't care about uh, invoicing software

1524
01:27:35,418 --> 01:27:37,578
and stuff is Studio works.community.

1525
01:27:38,058 --> 01:27:41,688
And then, um, I always have kids books to

1526
01:27:41,830 --> 01:27:42,640
Brad: anybody?

1527
01:27:42,850 --> 01:27:43,150
Jessica Hische: Oh yeah.

1528
01:27:43,150 --> 01:27:46,210
It's free to students and it's
free to Studio Works members.

1529
01:27:46,270 --> 01:27:49,690
And so right now you can sign up for
free for Studio Works and then get

1530
01:27:49,690 --> 01:27:52,630
a free, like in into the community.

1531
01:27:52,870 --> 01:27:55,270
But then once we actually
release the invoicing software,

1532
01:27:55,270 --> 01:27:57,730
you'll be paying for invoicing
software but have free community.

1533
01:27:57,970 --> 01:28:02,290
And then, um, I always have
new or kids books to chill.

1534
01:28:02,440 --> 01:28:03,520
Ooh, I do have something.

1535
01:28:03,580 --> 01:28:04,810
Let me go off screen for a second.

1536
01:28:05,385 --> 01:28:06,524
Two things.

1537
01:28:06,718 --> 01:28:09,748
This book came out not that long
ago, my first book of fancy letters.

1538
01:28:09,748 --> 01:28:12,148
My camera doesn't wanna
focus on it, but there it is.

1539
01:28:12,388 --> 01:28:13,318
That one's a good one.

1540
01:28:13,948 --> 01:28:15,148
And then this is new.

1541
01:28:15,148 --> 01:28:21,598
I have an updated version of my IMP
Progress book, which is now a thick boy

1542
01:28:22,378 --> 01:28:24,298
'cause I added almost 90 pages to it.

1543
01:28:24,598 --> 01:28:28,138
And so this is on pre-order right
now and it, and it comes out in May.

1544
01:28:28,198 --> 01:28:30,928
So you should get this
'cause I'm proud of it.

1545
01:28:31,018 --> 01:28:31,948
And it turned out really good

1546
01:28:32,588 --> 01:28:33,728
Brad: Beautiful.

1547
01:28:33,818 --> 01:28:34,628
Beautiful.

1548
01:28:35,018 --> 01:28:35,948
Well, that's awesome.

1549
01:28:35,948 --> 01:28:39,338
Well, uh, we're gonna have
to do this again sometime.

1550
01:28:39,338 --> 01:28:42,698
I thank you so much for,
for coming on the show.

1551
01:28:42,758 --> 01:28:45,548
Uh, you're one of the, the
first people that I'm talking

1552
01:28:45,548 --> 01:28:47,378
to, so really appreciate it.

1553
01:28:47,798 --> 01:28:51,608
And, uh, yeah, keep doing your
thing, putting out the positive

1554
01:28:51,608 --> 01:28:54,668
vibes in the world and those kiddos.

1555
01:28:54,981 --> 01:28:55,881
Jessica Hische: all day our day.