Cheyenne Hunt (00:00)
Eric Swalwell was relying on the silence of so many women for a profound amount of time. And he was able to get away with it. And there's so many others, too, whether it was Jeffrey Epstein, whether it was Graham Potner, like there's so many other figures that rely on the silence of women and have been able to get away with it because we are in a culture of resurgent misogyny. And the story that we tell about American women and what they deserve has changed fundamentally.

And so in large part the work is not only structural and it's not only legal, but it is cultural and it's a narrative change battle. And the battlefield is primarily online now.

Kim Villanueva (00:44)
Hello and welcome to Feminism Now. I'm Kim Villanueva President of the National Organization for Women. I'm here with National Vice President Rose Brunache Hello.

Rose Brunache (00:54)
Hello Kim. it's time for a reckoning. What has you mad as hell this week?

Kim Villanueva (00:59)
Well, not really mad as hell, more annoyed.

Cheyenne Hunt (01:02)
You know, the there's been discussions about, you know

Kim Villanueva (01:05)
powerful women who are very successful, but yet they're not feminist. And that just annoys the hell out of me. You know, and example is Dolly Parton, who rest in power, cast away this week. But you know, people were saying she wasn't a feminist. And I'm thinking, yes, yes, she was. I mean, she was successful. She was smart. She was kind. You know, she gave away millions of dollars. She helped people who need. I mean she cared about other people. I mean, what more feminist is that? You know, as we say in our statement about her, Dolly Parton defined feminism.

So if you don't agree, then you don't know anything about them. So what about

Cheyenne Hunt (01:37)
Well what about

Kim Villanueva (01:38)
you? What has what's righteously riled you up this week?

Rose Brunache (01:42)
like normal like usually it's hard to choose yeah but one thing is this attempt to criminalize mifeprestone miphoprestone accounts for like over 63 percent of abortions a lot of people don't know that they still think it's a procedure but it's actually the pill and there's this attempt that hasn't been fully exposed yet to but they're go try the FDA is is thinking of criminalizing it

missile Pristone is safe. it's very safe compared to some other drugs that are on the market. But that's one way that they're going to criminalize abortion. And also it makes me mad as hell, is because it's hypocritical, because they're always the people who want to criminalize abortion always say it should be a state issue. But they're gonna take that away from states like California, Massachusetts issue,

Kim Villanueva (02:32)
This is not an issue.

Rose Brunache (02:34)
and my home well, adopted home state of Maryland, where abortion is a constitutional right.

Kim Villanueva (02:40)
I know things like that make me angry too. But you know, the thing that makes anger powerful isn't the emotion, it's the action we take afterwards. So that's why we're so excited today to have Cheyenne Hunt on our show. She's a lawyer and organizer and the founder and executive director of Reckoning Action. And our listeners know you've heard of her before.

Rose Brunache (02:59)
Yes, she's a lawyer that helped bring Eric Swalwell to account for sexual misconduct.

Kim Villanueva (03:05)
Right, yeah, she is someone who gets things done. So we're about to talk to her, but first we want to hear from our listeners. What do you think about holding politicians to account? Why do you think so many abusers end up in such positions of power and readership? Call now with the number in our show notes and leave a voice message. You can also email us a voice note at through the phone to feminismnow at now.org. Finally, we all want to let you know we'll be talking about abuse and sexual abuse of women.

So please do take care of yourself on new list. Now let's talk to Cheyenne Hunt.

Well, Cheyenne, it's great to have you with us and welcome to Feminism Now. You've always been involved in justice and human rights as an attorney, but you started reckoning action after working to hold former representative Eric Swalwell accountable. And I love the fact that you can call him former now. So can you talk about how you got involved in that process? You know, and how did you hear about it initially?

Cheyenne Hunt (04:05)
I first heard about Eric Swalwell when I was hired as a young law clerk in the Senate, actually. I was working for Amy Klobuchar in the Senate Judiciary Committee, and I wasn't on the hill more than two or three days before I was in conversations with other young staffers.

And junior staff and interns who pulled me aside and warned me to stay away from Swalwell, not to be alone in a room with him, and not to add him on social media because I wouldn't like where that was gonna go. We're we're fast forwarding now to kind of the heat of the California governor's race, where for the first time someone takes a lead in the polls and it's Eric Swalwell. And at that point, I think we were 25 days or so from ballots going out in the mail.

And that's where I get outreach from a close friend disclosing that she had been sexually harassed by the congressman and asking me to use my platform on social media to bring awareness to her story because she suspected that she was not the only one. And she had also heard you know, similar things that I had heard. And, you know, for me, I it felt like a no-brainer. It felt like I wasn't going to be doing anything that.

Controversial because it was such an open secret. It felt so known. Apparently, that was not true, or at least it was only known in kind of those inside baseball political circles. And so after that way,

Kim Villanueva (05:34)
Insight about

Cheyenne Hunt (05:35)
yeah, after I posted that video, it just absolutely exploded. And I was getting outreach from reporters who were blowing up my phone and said that they had been working the story for upwards of 10 years.

And then I started to get outreach from other survivors as well who had seen the video and said they had a similar story to tell. So that was really kind of how it all started. And we organized in that moment around that to really get these survivors hooked up with the resources that they would need to be able to come forward safely. So pro bono legal counsel, communication support, mental health support. and we we brought that forward and the rest is history.

Kim Villanueva (06:14)
It only took eleven days, I think.

Cheyenne Hunt (06:16)
It did. For that from the very from the time I posted that first video till the time the story broke and his career was effectively over, it was eleven days. Wow.

Kim Villanueva (06:25)
But after decades of secret abuse and harassment.

Rose Brunache (06:29)
Well, this is just one of the many cases where men in power abuse women. And in spite of the Me Too movement, a lot of women keep it secret. They don't make it ever public. It's may seem obvious to us, but can you talk about why women don't come forward as even if in the Me Too era?

Cheyenne Hunt (06:47)
Well, think that, you know, the Me Too era was groundbreaking. It opened a lot of doors and it started to push the boundaries on what powerful men were able to get away with and the silence that they could rely on from the women that they hurt. And that was huge. It was a cultural breakthrough in so many ways. And yet, like any any movement that is

Going to go after a structure of power that is built on the subjugation of others is going to have a reaction to being threatened. And that's exactly what we've seen in the 10 years since the Me Too movement. We've seen the right and the reactionary forces of the misogynist patriarchy get you know, deeply reactionary and become more entrenched and

push a culture war on women and really kind of start to change the story and come back with a lot of historical revisionism about the Me Too movement and what it meant and what it took from men. I'm doing air quotes to the listeners. Right. how many

Kim Villanueva (07:57)
Hard.

Cheyenne Hunt (07:58)
Yeah. And I think that that's done some damage, especially in the digital era where cultural change has never happened as quickly as it does now when narratives can be claimed and shaped that quickly online. And so

You know, that was part of what brought us to found reckoning, our C3 Reckoning Initiative and R C4 Reckoning Action was how did this happen? Like Eric Swalwell was relying on the silence of so many women for a profound amount of time. And he was able to get away with it. And there's so many others too, whether it was Jeffrey Epstein, whether it was Graham Potner, like there, there's so many other figures that.

Rely on the silence of women and have been able to get away with it because we are in a culture of resurgent misogyny. And the story that we tell about American women and what they deserve has changed fundamentally. And so, in large part, the work is not only structural and it's not only legal, but it is cultural and it's a narrative change battle. And the battlefield is primarily online now. And so if we're not really prepared to play on that battleground, then we're not contesting the the

fight and we're we're losing. And so that's a big part of what we were founded to do and why I think we still see so many women who aren't getting the message that there's a coalition that will believe them, that will get behind them, that will support them. and that's a part of the work.

Kim Villanueva (09:22)
Yeah, you're so correct in terms of how social media and digital media can help promote positivity and encourage women to come out of about violence against women. Now I can remember when I was in college in the 80s, which dates me, but there was no social media. In my dorm, we had what was called the rape wall, which is where a woman would write down the name of her abuser or her rapist and his phone number if she had it or where he lived, you know, out dorm or something like that. So that was the only way we could communicate.

And it was still in secret because we could we didn't feel like we could come forward. But now, you know, for this you know, with the solo case, it started with a group chat, you know, women talking to each other privately and then feeling empowered to come forward. So why do you think that the women did come forward eventually?

Cheyenne Hunt (10:07)
I had a my own version of this when I was in college. And it wasn't a wall, it was a website where you would place the like emoji of a fire somewhere on the map where you had been sexually assaulted. And you could put the person's name in the details. It it goes to show, like, yeah, things have we've made some progress, but not enough. Not enough. We're still ultimately doing the same thing, which is bearing the burden of protecting each other when there is no justice. And I think that these women.

Ultimately came forward, and and this is a misconception that we get a lot, which is you know, they must have had some ulterior motive if they weren't motivated to come forward and tell he was taking the lead in the governor's race. You know, that timing is really suspicious. But I think the truth is when your abuser, who you have tried to spend years, some of these women forgetting about, recovering from, healing from, is now.

Back in a national spotlight and prepared and poised to be one of the most powerful government officials in the world of the state of California, which, if it was a country, would have the fourth largest GDP in the world. that can be a pretty powerful motivating factor to say enough is enough. This person is going to assume a profound amount of power that he could use and abuse to hurt other women.

And this thing that I never in a million years thought that I would want to expose, I now feel compelled. And I I think that anybody who puts themselves in those shoes can understand it. And so, you know, I think a lot of those arguments are pretty intentionally dense and bad faith. like the these women are heroes and they've spared countless other women. And in the case of Swalwell, too, like his MO was using his power and authority.

To lure these women in. And it was across the country. Like it wasn't just political staffers. It was women that he was talking to online, offering favors, the guise of professional mentorship. And if a congressman can do that, a governor can do it tenfold.

Rose Brunache (12:15)
This isn't the only story since then. Other politicians have suspended their campaigns. The most public is probably Graham Platinum's campaign for Maine. You actually initially supported Plattner and then dropped your support and finally helped connect Politico with one of his accusers. Can you talk about that process?

Cheyenne Hunt (12:35)
You know, I endorse Platiner because the platform that he was running on was one that I ultimately agreed with. It was a bold progressive vision. it was one that ultimately could have unseated Susan Collins, who is no friend to women, and her as her votes to confirm Brett Kavanaugh have have made clear. and so at the time, with the information that we had, that felt like the right choice. And I think that one thing that

We as a culture need to be more willing to do is publicly change course and admit that we were wrong when we learn new information. And I think that's something that like the Trump administration has really inoculated a lot of people against is this idea that we have to change course when we learn new things and that it's like safe to do that. And in fact, it's our civic duty to take in new information and change course as we learn it. And the

The culture that seemed to really double down around him as more and more kind of disturbing details came out about his past. and specifically seeing people make excuses for the this deeply misogynistic rhetoric that he had posted online. And for me, really the straw that broke the camel's back was a New York Times article, which contained pretty graphic details of domestic abuse and watching people say.

That it didn't really cross the line. I mean, I'm a as an attorney, I've litigated domestic abuse cases in family court. I know that what was alleged in that article and what was substantiated in that reporting would have met the standard of domestic violence in all 50 states. And yet people were really waffling on that line and and weren't willing to take a renewed look at their commitment to this candidate. And so that was the point at which.

I said enough is enough and I pulled my endorsement. Ultimately, that decision and that announcement was the first thing that really initiated us getting connected to his survivors. there were organizers on the ground in Maine who saw me rescinding that endorsement and explaining why. And they reached out and said they knew some women who had stories to tell and needed help. And

That was how we got connected. And really for them, it was just about people knowing the truth, the same way with the Swalwell survivors. And to watch Platner, you know, go around the state touting this idea that, you know, he had made mistakes in his past, but he was a reformed man. And that, you know, everyone nationally talking about this idea of it's a grand story of redemption. But there are certain things that are not redeemable for public.

life like for public office and sexual assault is one of them. you you don't get to come back from that and be a senator. You don't get to ignore that and play that down and never take accountability. And that was very much what was going on in so many of these women. You know, just I mean they risk a lot their physical safety, their mental health, their relationships in their communities, their careers, and the in a commitment to keeping other women safe and

people knowing the truth, they come forward anyway, and it's just endlessly inspiring.

Kim Villanueva (15:56)
It's was sad to see how often the default was blame the victim, you know, or she she's really a democratic operative or she's with the opposition campaign, you know, instead of this is the truth, this is her truth. Right. You know, and what's also shocking that so many women still supported Platner after all these came out. And also I think that there had to even be a line, you know, to be crossed before people would decide that he was not a viable candidate.

So why do you think politics is like that these days? Is it the Trump administration? Is it the backlash that you talked about? What do you think?

Cheyenne Hunt (16:30)
Yeah. I mean, I think let's take a look at like what is the pushback that we get, right? And a lot of what I see when we talk about Platinum, when we talk about Swalwell, when we talk about anybody on our side of the street, quote unquote, is we've got people who are coming after abortion rights and we are we're campaigning against people who want to see the downfall of our democracy. So we need to be completely focused on that. And what are we doing? You know, dividing our own team, going after our own.

And I think that while I can understand how this moment of deep polarization and feeling like so much is at stake, people can get there. What they don't understand, if you take a step back and look at it with clarity, is what you are saying is that women are an acceptable form of collateral damage for any other number of issues, which is just

Fundamentally wrong. Like we can't normalize that. And we also can't purport to be advocates for women and the party that stands for XYZ for women and allow this to go on in our ranks at the same time. And I think what we have now is really a proof of concept that when we keep the bar high.

And we clean up and we hold our own accountable. What actually happens is the bar gets forcibly raised across the board because Tony Gonzalez had been known to have been an abuser for well over six weeks before we exposed Eric Swalwell, abusing one of his staffers so egregiously that she took her own life. And he was fine and and was, you know, sitting pretty in his seat until we forced the resignation of Eric Swalwell and his party then had to kind of force him out in kind.

We've seen the same thing now that we've kept the conversation going and the momentum going. All of a sudden there's a national conversation about Chuck Edwards harassing his staffers. And he was just censured by many of his Republican colleagues. And national almost all the conversation about Max Miller, that you know, they're trying to sweep under the rug, and suddenly now they just can't get away from because we've raised the bar. And so it's also like ultimately a win-win. And I think hopefully now.

We have enough proof of concept that people understand why this is so critically important if the pure moral argument wasn't enough.

Kim Villanueva (19:00)
Right. Yeah, that there's so many examples that this really is true. It's really happening. Cheyenne, obviously there's so much more that we want to cover, but we have to take a quick break so that we can hear from our chapters. And the chapters on the source of our grassroots power. So that's

Rose Brunache (19:13)
Hear what they have to say. My name is Nancy Nichols and I am the

Kim Villanueva (19:17)
I'm president

of the Northeast Texas National Organization

Rose Brunache (19:21)
National organization.

Kim Villanueva (19:22)
for Women. My name is Laura.

For women. Our chapter, Net Now, is amazing and unique because we are the most active chapter in Texas. We have received a grant from the Now Foundation to help with our annual East Texas Women's March and Expo. What we do is twofold. The first thing

Rose Brunache (19:49)
Is

Kim Villanueva (19:50)
that we have the Women's March, which is a peaceful march through Tyler.

That begins and ends at the conference center. It's escorted by the police department. And women come out from all over East Texas. Not only women, women, men, families, small animals all over Texas are marching to bring an awareness to not only women's rights, but the fact that women are losing our rights here in Texas.

The second part is the Women's Expo. And the Women's Expo is designed to bring together families and interested folks. It's a community event that brings people together in more of a fun way to bring an awareness about women's issues. Our area is very conservative. Our folks have a very conservative mindset.

This is not out of choice. This is out of not knowing. So that's why it's so important to us to have all kinds of fun, community-friendly

Rose Brunache (21:06)
Fred

Kim Villanueva (21:08)
happenings within the expo that will bring people in so that they can then have the opportunity to the to some of the other things available, such as a blood drive.

Free HIV and STD testing, mental health information, energy renewal opportunities that's going on. And that's just an example. Bringing in banned books for our banned book collection trunk. And there's also a protest poster making session that's happening that's for everybody. The X

Rose Brunache (21:45)
Free for info is annual.

Kim Villanueva (21:49)
and it's on a Saturday.

in September every year.

Rose Brunache (21:53)
Yeah.

Kim Villanueva (21:54)
This year it will be Saturday, September nineteenth.

Cheyenne Hunt (21:57)
Can

find us on our website at www.netx.

Kim Villanueva (22:04)
N O dot

Cheyenne Hunt (22:07)
So that's netxnow.org. And you can also find a lot of information about us on Linktree. It's

Kim Villanueva (22:15)
It's L I

Cheyenne Hunt (22:17)
I-N-K-T-R dot-e-e slash

Kim Villanueva (22:22)
In

Cheyenne Hunt (22:22)
E T E S

Rose Brunache (22:25)
X A S.

Cheyenne Hunt (22:26)
N O W. So Link Tree slash N-E-Texes now.

Kim Villanueva (22:36)
And we're back with Cheyenne Hunt, the founder and executive director of Reckoning Action. Hey, Cheyenne Swolo was a Democrat, and so was Platner. And we just talked about the fact that, you know, we worked to force out Tony Gonzalez and Chuck Edwards was just censored by the House. But as we've seen in the news, it seems like there's really one party that takes accountability more seriously. Why do you think that is?

Cheyenne Hunt (23:02)
Well, I think that there yeah. I I think that there's one party, frankly, who understand and this maybe is cynical. Like I am really proud of the Democratic Party and the way that they've responded time and time again as we've brought these forward. I did not expect that they would respond as quickly in in all of these cases, because frankly, I'm very cynical about what people are willing to do to protect women.

and they have exceeded my expectations. However, I also think that there is no political party that is immune from deeply embedded misogyny. It's everywhere. And it's and there's no faction. I I don't care if you are super progressive on the left, like you guys have it too. We all have it. and so we need to be like disabused of the notion that any of us have like arrived at perfect anti-misogynistic representation. We just haven't yet. And it's

It is a cancer that we all need to be committed to uprooting. And I think that, you know, the the Democrats understand at a certain level that a big part of their constituency, their core constituency, is women. And they can't get away with sweeping these things under the rug in the same way. I think that's the electoral reason. I also just think that in general, we are more committed to women's issues and that.

Blends itself, you know, to being more willing to kind of clean it up. I think that the Republican Party has a fundamental problem with the fact that most of their power players, whether it's it's actually the people who sit in these seats of power or their key donors who bankroll the whole operation, have a cultural issue with treating violence against women as a currency of power.

And something that is a excusable liability that the right lawyer, the right crisis PR person, enough money and the right NDA can make go away. That is something that has become so normalized over there that if they were to start kicking people out, it I I think the list would be pretty long. Right. And the

Kim Villanueva (25:11)
It'll pretty empty after a couple of minutes.

Cheyenne Hunt (25:13)
Yeah, I think so. And so, you know, it's it's gonna be some work.

To really push for that. But I think that we are seeing progress in a different way. We're having more conversations about it. Stories that usually would have been like a blip are becoming inescapable and painful for them. And that's really our goal. Yeah.

Kim Villanueva (25:33)
It's

interesting because the women in Congress, especially in the House, whether they're Democratic or Republicans, seem to have come together and are working on standards and rules to protect women's staffers. So I think that's very promising. Sure that it really is bipartisan.

Cheyenne Hunt (25:50)
worked

with the Democratic Women's Caucus on some of this and we're definitely heartened to see the Republicans women the Republican women's caucus join in that effort. Ultimately, I think, you know, the package that they come up with will hopefully reflect a lot of really common sense reforms. but I'm hoping that it goes further than that too and actually has appropriate kind of punitive measures built in for abusers.

And you know, we'll ultimately see what they're able to come up with. But I'm I'm really hopeful that this is a step in the right direction. Might have.

Kim Villanueva (26:28)
I mean, it's sad that we have to have punitive change happen. We should be thinking into preventative and it shouldn't be happening in the first place.

Rose Brunache (26:35)
Right. So you found in Reckoning Action, as we said, to keep this movement along. What do you hope to do with it?

Cheyenne Hunt (26:42)
I think our goal is to have a comprehensive rebuttal to the cultural resurgence of misogyny in American public life. It's a tall order, but it is deeply, deeply necessary. I think that there's a lot of people who understand that democracy is under threat. And there's a lot of groups that have been stood up to try to respond to that. There's a lot of groups who see that, you know, the the left has a young man problem, and there's been hundreds of millions of dollars invested in that.

There are not a lot of people who are willing to recognize how much of this is deeply rooted in misogyny and the fact that unchecked misogyny historically is almost always a precursor to democratic erosion. And if we want to preserve our rights, we have to protect the rights of women first. and because they are so often the first to go.

And so that is really key for us. And we want to play on multiple levels. You know, we're working with our policy partners on state and federal legislation. We're working with content creators to build that narrative change ecosystem. And we really are continuing to support survivors. That was where it all started for us because they're such a incredible messengers. And women need to be empowered to come forward in the 21st century. It's a different world now. It takes a lot.

To put your face out there when it can be amplified 10,000 times over online and when you can be doxxed and harassed and people can find your house. Right. And so that's another thing that we really provide is our survivor support hub that brings forward everything that you need to tell this story and have your narrative championed the right way. So that is our creator, our content creator network that amplifies those stories and calls for accountability. That's

digital security to ensure that all of these survivors have their information safely locked away. And it's com support and it's pro bono legal help, like all of that is a necessary part of supporting these women and coming forward. And so that support hub is always going to be a part of what we do as well.

Kim Villanueva (28:47)
Really interested to hear about your the latest project you're working on, the cover-up roundup.

Cheyenne Hunt (28:54)
Absolutely. So the cover up roundup is a new series we've started talking about the powerful people who are complicit in the Epstein cover up, especially the ones who are still really getting away with it and not facing accountability. It ties into a project we're also working on and will be working with Epstein Epstein survivors on.

Up until the midterms, we're partnered with the Institute for Primary Facts and we're bringing the Trump Epstein Reading Room on tour across the country so that people across the country have the opportunity to just see the files, understand how many uninvestigated leads there are and how justice is still being denied to these incredible survivors. and so we're we're doing that on the ground, but we're also digitally amplifying the reach with this series to.

continue kind of showing people just how intertwined many powerful figures are and how complicit they are still. And it's a deep web that I think people get the sense that, well, the files have been released. So clearly it's all out there. And it's not even close. So we're really continuing to hammer on this because the Epstein message is so far beyond just one man. It's a a broader cultural story that's resonating with people who understand that our system is so corrupt.

And that there is a class of men who still exist and believe that they can act with impunity and treat violence against women as their currency of power. And so it's something that we're committed to continuing to talk about and raise awareness about. Right.

Kim Villanueva (30:25)
It really isn't a true crime story. You know, the Epstein files are evidence of crimes against women. You know, maybe we do we need to have them prosecuted. The people who perpetuate these crimes need to be brought to justice for the survivors.

Cheyenne Hunt (30:38)
Absolutely.

Kim Villanueva (30:39)
Well, Cheyenne, thank you so much for coming on the show and for the incredible work you're doing. we're hoping to partner with you in the future as well. And thank you again for making the promote for orb a little safer for women.

Cheyenne Hunt (30:52)
Absolutely happy to do it.

Kim Villanueva (30:54)
Yeah.

It's almost October, and now it's proud to be relaunching our Unlock the Future campaign. We started this campaign in 2019 to expose the inhumane treatment of women and girls held at immigration detention centers under the first term of the Trump administration. Unfortunately, here we are again. And now even more people are being held against their will and without cause. With Unlock the Future, we demand the fundamental civil and human rights of every immigrant in the United States. We stand with immigrants.

And we hope that you will stand with us. Rosa, was one heck up a conversation. What do you think?

Rose Brunache (31:34)
I mean, it's sad that these type of organizations have to exist. You know, someone as brilliant as Cheyenne Hunt having to dedicate her education and skills to taking down people in power. I think it's important that we have organizations like this because, you know, like I said in the the interview, is that, you know, you think that this would be over with the Me Too movement, right? 'cause I I'm always shocked about men who continue to do this after the Me Too movement because

I always th thought they would they would be afraid, like they'd be scared that it would come out.

Kim Villanueva (32:06)
Yeah, me too doesn't mean for them.

Rose Brunache (32:08)
Yeah, maybe they're just they just think it's never gonna happen to them, but yeah, you know, it's gonna come out. Right. Might not come out now, but it'll come out years later. What about you? What is something that surprised you?

Kim Villanueva (32:19)
Do.

Yeah, I was really surprised when Cheyenne talked about the fact that when she first started as a staffer, that she was immediately warned about certain people to avoid. I mean, the fact that she'd only done there a week and yet there was this underground network of women wanting to help other women. And the fact that that network had to be created. I mean, that was sad to hear and shocking, I thought. So hopefully, you know, some of the actions that women of commerce are taking now to provide guidelines and rules to help.

provide for the safety of women staffers who all take that. We have such amazing people come on this show. But I want to hear what our listeners think about that and about our conversations. So give us a call at the number in the show notes or send us a voice memo at feminismnow at now.org. Thank you.

Rose Brunache (33:05)
Thank

you all for joining us and we'll see you next time.

Kim Villanueva (33:23)
Mm.

Cheyenne Hunt (33:24)
Last topica.