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Yeah, how are you?

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Yeah, so welcome to the Add IDEAS Podcast. I'm joined by a phenomenal leader who helps

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other leaders communicate better.

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Thabani Mtsi, how are you?

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I'm good thanks.

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Thanks for having me.

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Thank you.

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I'm excited for this.

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Yeah, so what introduced you to go more into communication and helping people communicate

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to overcome their fears?

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You know, there was a turning point in my communication journey when I transitioned from primary school

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to high school.

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So if you can imagine, primary school you're with people that you were with since young

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age, you're highly socialized, you know them, you know who they are, you know their backgrounds,

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you know where their houses are and we experimented a lot growing up with each other.

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And so by the time I got to Grade 7 I was comfortable with the space that I was in.

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So this was the primary that I was at in EMonti, East London called George

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Randell Primary School.

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So, you know, I spent the first seven years of my primary school there, grew up with the

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people that I was in pre-school with as well.

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So that was fine, right?

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And when I got to high school, I went into an old boy's school, new environment, new

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people, we had a bit grown up, there's a bit of maturing that's happening, there's, you

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know, teenagers.

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So there's that happening and where there was a sharp turning point that I realized and

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I'll share why this was a sharp turning point.

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There were some other points before but there was a sharp turning point where, so okay,

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I'm at this all boy's school.

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Then some of my friends that I was in primary school with go to co-ed schools and all

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other schools.

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And so a friend of mine then says, dude, there is this young lady that's asking about you.

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I think she's interested, he sends me pictures and I'm like, oh my goodness, I've seen her

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before because I'd seen her in my cousin's, you know, yearbook and I was like, yoh, who's

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this?

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And I had a bit of a conversation about it but I didn't follow up.

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And so he tells me that, look, this person's interested in you.

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And of course, I'm like, this is fate, this is her, this is the one.

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And I say, ja, I said set something up, let's link up.

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We link up over the weekend.

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I'm dressed in my best clothes, I think I stole my dad's cologne.

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But I'm ready for this.

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She comes, I come, my friend introduces us and it's like, okay, you two, chat it

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up, telling you.

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And I remember it like it was yesterday.

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I had absolutely nothing to say.

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Froze.

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Yeah.

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Nothing came out.

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And she was like, Haibo.

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Ugrand?

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And like, you know, I'm playing around, I'm thinking, you know, the weather, but like

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I'm panicking, like legit, I've got nothing to say.

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So she said, you know, maybe let's start walking, maybe you'll cool down, you know.

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So we start walking and still nothing's happened.

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I'm shaking, like I'm having like a proper, you know, episode of sorts.

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So fast forward, you know, 40 minutes later, 20, it felt like 40, but it was probably 10.

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My friend comes in and is like, oh, how are you two feeling?

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And she says, yeah, this one is not talking.

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He's boring me.

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You know, like he's not.

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So she wants to explain a different outcome than the reality.

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Yeah.

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Of course.

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And she says, I'll never forget you.

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She says, I was told, you are tall, dark and charismatic.

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You are just dark.

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Wow.

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My heart.

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So I think at that point, that was a sharp turning point that the way I responded to

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it was how I respond to most things, get as many books as possible, ask as many questions,

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try and upskill myself because there's obviously a gap in communication.

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So that's when I started undergoing formal training, if you will, reading books, finding

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out things, asking pointed questions that I wanted and attempt to try and get, you know,

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competent at this thing.

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And I call that the sharpest turn because I think I've always been introverted and I've

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never been, you know, a conversationalist in any and every space.

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I stick to myself.

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I'm in the background.

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I call myself a background panel guy and I'm not the loudest person in any room.

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Right.

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I'm not one of those center of attention commanding the whole room types of people.

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So I've always been like that, but I've never had to face that before because I'll socialize

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with the people I was in primary school up until the sharp turning point.

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And the journey began and I've been obsessed with communication since that point.

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I think like what other experiences that help you hold into a clinical profession to help

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others overcome the fear?

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And what opportunities do you see in that moment after that journey of that sharp turning

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point that you realize, nah, this is my fine tune?

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Sure.

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So after that sharp turning point, you can imagine some of the content I was exposed

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to, you know, and I took some rabbit holes along the way.

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I know a lot of people will be familiar with some of the pickup artist's content that a

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lot of young men of the time were consuming and trying to better themselves.

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Right.

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You know, I took that route and read a whole lot of books, how to influence, how to win

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people and how to win friends and influence people, a whole bunch of books.

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And so you can imagine that because I'm reading all of the stuff, my eyes are fine tuned to

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see how people are interacting, the loudest people, how they're interacting, how they

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are stepping into the room, what are they doing that I could adopt to become more, to

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become less awkward, actually.

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It's not more of anything.

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Just become less awkward, become more comfortable in social situations.

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And so to speak to opportunities, I then developed an eye to observe social situations,

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people.

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I also think it's part of nature.

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You know, there's a nature, a nature part of it.

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I also think I'm a natural and observing person.

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I listen a lot.

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I am always looking out to see, you know, what's happening here, what's happening there.

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And I think part of it was informed by the number of backgrounds I grew up in, but I'll

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touch on that a bit later.

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But as I went through, I've gotten on like, I'm seeing these things, right?

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I'm seeing that all so-and-so is commanding attention because of how they use their voice.

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So-and-so is commanding attention because of how they use their body.

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So-and-so is commanding attention because of how well they tell stories.

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And so with that theoretical foundation and me consistent in trying these things out in

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certain spaces, in new spaces, spaces that I felt somewhat okay, I'm here once.

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I'm never probably going to be here again.

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So it's time for me to try out these new tricks, see if they're working, if they do, I integrate

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them into my life.

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And then I started seeing, I'm noticing things that other people have not noticed.

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And I'm asking questions that other people are maybe not comfortable asking or other

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people are noticing, but they're not saying.

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So like, if a situation is tense, I'm like, no, this is obvious.

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So I've always been quick to say, no, this is tense.

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Let's address it.

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What's causing the tenseness there?

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And then of course, the response that I got from people as a result of asking those questions,

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conducting myself the way I conducted myself on the basis of that theoretical knowledge

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and that experimentation, then showed me that people aren't as well versed on this topic

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as I would have thought they are.

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Because of course, when you're on the outside, you think that everyone else is fine, right?

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Everyone else is laughing, everyone else is chilled, and you having an internal experience

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think you're the only person that's awkward in that social environment, the only person

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that's uncomfortable, the only person that's a bit weird when something happens and you're

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like, I don't quite know what's just happened.

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You think you're having a singular experience.

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And when I started having conversations and asking those questions, I then realized that

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no, I'm not going to do the same thing, Bandile is asking themselves the same questions.

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There are a lot of people who are asking themselves the same questions.

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And then I was like, okay, there might be an opportunity here.

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And then I started sharing some of those things with some of the people I went to high school

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with because, and I don't know if there's how factual this is, but there were a lot of

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our school because we were in an old boys' school, speaking to women or girls was just

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a tough hurdle in general.

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And we'd often have conversations of, oh, how do you do this?

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How do you do that?

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And so I was then using both the book knowledge and what I was experimenting with, putting

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in inputs.

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And so I was like, no, man, people are asking these questions.

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People want to know these things.

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And so I started then playing around with not training or coaching people, but just contributing

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my knowledge within the social realm.

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And then move over to university, I'm somewhat comfortable in the skill, right?

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So me being comfortable in the skill doesn't mean I'm comfortable in social situations.

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I probably still have the level of discomfort, but now I know I've got the steel of communication

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so I can communicate.

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I can ask questions.

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I can contribute to conversation.

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I can be social, right?

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Without feeling that sense of comfort.

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And then when I got to university, I then thought I was drawn into leadership training

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and facilitation and all of those things.

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And there was a clear, clear gap there.

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I had people who said, I don't want to run because I'm going to have to deliver a speech.

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And I'm like, you're a phenomenal leader.

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You're phenomenal.

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You're thoughts are refined.

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They nuanced.

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You're smart.

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You seem to have a good vision.

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And this one presentation that's five minutes is going to stop you from stepping into a

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leadership position.

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And so I was like, there's a clear gap.

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People are struggling to communicate.

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And so it started off as me guiding some of those leaders and saying, okay, what are you

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challenging?

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What's the struggle here?

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I want to do this.

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Okay, let's go through it.

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Let's practice it.

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Let's run through it.

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And then I ran across organizations like Toastmasters, came across organizations like the

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Transformation Office within the university structure.

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And I started experiencing a lot more of people who needed this guidance.

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And I stepped in and positioned myself to serve.

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So from those experiences, right?

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You say you're connected with people who have the similar thought processes, social anxiety

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or the fear of feeling uncomfortable because everyone is laughing.

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You have to laugh.

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So what are the top concepts in your experience that I comment on?

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It's across different groups that you really tackle and say, okay, cool, there's a fear

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of freezing for what to do to freeze them.

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How do you overcome that as a first step?

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Let me first paint the spectrum.

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There is one-on-one talking, which is more conversational and all of that.

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And then the more people you add, the format becomes different.

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So let's say at this end of the spectrum there's one-on-one communication I'm talking to you

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and having a conversation.

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Then you scale that up, you add more people.

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You maybe add a camera, you sort of widen the audience.

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And then you move to, there's a group of us when a group conversation.

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So everyone is contributing.

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And then you move to, there's one of me and there's 50 of you, which is public speaking.

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Or there's one of me and there's 12, or there's five of you, right?

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Just a one-to-many type of model.

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So challenges on one-on-one or in a group setting or in a one-to-many.

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I think in different stages, I think as you say, like a best case, I know for myself,

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as also as an introvert, I had to grow into being an uncomfortable talking.

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Because sometimes you think to yourself, how can you be this whole of myself?

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But what I realized is that people don't like reading.

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We hear more, we learn from talking and engaging more in relationships.

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So I think it's easier for us to converse, but as you say, as you add, for example, a

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camera, the anxiety comes in.

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You know, the thoughts that like, I wonder who's watching.

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So what did you find are the common, I think as we transition to different states of communication?

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Gotcha.

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Yeah.

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At the base level, at the base level, the research says at a primal level, whenever you're

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standing in the midst of uncertainty, now let's track back to back when maybe you

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were hunting for things.

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You need to be acutely aware of your surroundings because that then contributes to what you're

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going to catch and how safe you are.

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So any level of uncertainty then should heighten your five flights or freeze or freak out.

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It should heighten it.

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So you're unsafe.

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Now let's quickly fast forward and draw to a public speaking instance for instance.

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You're standing in front of probably strangers, right?

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Because no one has a problem in public speaking in front of their family because it's familiarity.

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There's some sense of safety depending on the family dynamic, but very seldom people

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are, or maybe rather paint that differently.

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Seldom are people uncomfortable speaking in front of people they know and they're familiar

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with and they're safe in their environment.

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It's not public speaking.

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Then you just talk into friends, whether they're sitting down, whether you're standing on a

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podium, if it's them, then you feel somewhat safe.

237
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When you change elements, you add a stranger.

238
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,960
It contributes to the fear.

239
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,360
When you add stakes there.

240
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:44,360
So let me highlight four causes for the fear of public speaking.

241
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,600
But I think these also apply to one or more conversations.

242
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:52,760
So the first one is the situation.

243
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:53,760
So where am I?

244
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,480
Am I talking about new content?

245
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,040
Am I speaking to a new audience?

246
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,680
How much is this setting?

247
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,360
How uncomfortable or how uncertain is this?

248
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:11,280
So new topics, new people, new ideas, new concepts are going to cause some sense of discomfort.

249
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,920
So that's the first one, situation.

250
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,800
The second one is skill, the level of skill and your perceived skill.

251
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:24,320
If you perceive yourself to be a competent communicator, you will do better than someone

252
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,120
who doesn't perceive themselves as a competent communicator.

253
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:32,160
So it's an internal story you tell yourself, especially around your ability to communicate

254
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,880
and the safety they're in.

255
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,800
Tell a different story when you're speaking to your family or your friends or a safe space

256
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,320
than when you're speaking to executives, for instance.

257
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:49,920
So there's a skill and then there are your thoughts in the moment.

258
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:50,920
What does this mean?

259
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:51,920
What are the stakes?

260
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,600
If I make a mistake here, what does that mean for me?

261
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,760
If I fumble this, what does that mean?

262
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,320
So there's skill, there's situation, there's skill, there's thoughts.

263
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,440
Situation, the situations of audience vary.

264
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,960
And so whether you're in a conversation one-on-one, depending on what the conversation is about,

265
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,680
I'm going to feel less nervous for a conversation that's not a conflict than I am going to feel

266
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:15,680
if it's a conflict.

267
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,400
If I'm coming here to confide in you about something, of course, I'm feeling some type

268
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,720
of way because the situation dictates that.

269
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,200
So the way I use my voice is not going to be the same.

270
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,120
I'm not going to come to you and say, well, depending on what type of person in my relationship

271
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:35,640
to conflict is, I'm going to use the voice that dictates what my relationship to conflict

272
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,640
is in the one-on-one conversation.

273
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:44,080
The same thing if you're on a stage and you think that you're being evaluated, the situation

274
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,600
changes versus when you think, ah, it's a bunch of people I know and I have to move.

275
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:50,600
So that's the situation.

276
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,920
Then your skill, which is what I specialize in, I think you can always ramp your skill

277
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:55,920
up.

278
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:03,240
And I always say that your competence as a speaker is no one's at zero.

279
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,760
No one's not competent at all.

280
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:11,160
You're on some spectrum of competence.

281
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,000
And what you can do is increase that slider.

282
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,600
And of course, nature and nurture, again, some people based on how their proclivities

283
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,920
or where they were raised, they'll change.

284
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:31,480
Some people are more extroverted, more open to experience and just more, more enthusiastic.

285
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,080
And so they'll have a bit of an advantage.

286
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,680
Some people are placed in situations where they had to speak a lot more than others,

287
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,480
which is speaking to the nurture part.

288
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,560
So in terms of that slider and the level of confidence, they would have been a lot further

289
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,440
than someone who didn't, who had a different background and has a different sort of makeup,

290
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:50,440
DNA makeup.

291
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,440
That's actually the fourth one.

292
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,760
Yes, it's physiology is the fourth one.

293
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,240
It's who are you inside, right?

294
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,160
Are you introvert, extrovert?

295
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,080
Are you open to experience?

296
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,760
By the way, I think introvert, extrovert has less of a relationship on your ability to

297
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:08,760
speak.

298
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:14,120
And I think your openness to experience has more of a relationship because your openness

299
00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:20,400
to experience speaks to your comfort with uncertainty, your comfort with ambiguity.

300
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:27,360
So if you're comfortable being in ambiguous situations and uncertain situations, whether

301
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:32,080
you're introverted or extroverted, it just speaks to how you charge up for social situations.

302
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:37,240
Of course, an introvert, I'm also an introvert, by the way, if I'm not charged up and I show up

303
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,240
to speak to you, I'm going to be compromised earlier on.

304
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,280
Even if I charge up, then I should be equipped, but then my openness to experience and my comfort

305
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,960
with discomfort and ambiguity will actually dictate how well I treat a public speaker

306
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:51,960
situation.

307
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,720
So physiology, nature, nature, and then situation, right?

308
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,920
And then it's your thoughts and then it's your skill level.

309
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:04,480
Those are the four things that across the board, if you address them, you should at

310
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,560
least become a more effective communicator with skill being the biggest lever.

311
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:15,280
If you improve on your skill anyway, you can go anywhere, you can put me in any situation.

312
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:21,440
Yes, I can adjust my nurture and nature to some degree, but if you ramp the skill up,

313
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,720
then you're in much better standing.

314
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,600
So how do we get that skill muscle?

315
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,880
I think, for example, let's say you come from Washington now, you've just completed your

316
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,400
degree, you want to access the opportunity by just starting to sell yourself because you

317
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:34,840
never taught them how to communicate.

318
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:40,600
You've been taught about consuming knowledge, consuming so much information to build a basic

319
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,240
of skill of going into the labor market, right?

320
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,680
So how do we sell ourselves?

321
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:51,360
How do we communicate our skillset in that environment where you don't want to go and

322
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:54,880
pick between a million people in a whole?

323
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,600
Well first, you follow me.

324
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,080
I'm not kidding.

325
00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,080
Yeah, follow me.

326
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,080
That's the first thing because I've got good tips.

327
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:09,560
And then secondly, more practically, I think there is one first understanding where you

328
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:10,560
are.

329
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:16,360
You know, I think as you share my sound, admitting that you've got an incompetence in being a

330
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,240
communicator is the first step.

331
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,600
If you don't admit it, then I'm fine.

332
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,760
I get nervous every now and then when I have to present, I'm fine, right?

333
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,280
And I've seen many people who are into that.

334
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,520
Many people will say, I'm fine.

335
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,480
I don't need any coaching, don't need any guidance.

336
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,280
And this is not even me selling services because this is when you're passionate about something

337
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,560
and infiltrates into your conversation.

338
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:45,920
So if I hear someone saying, ah, my boss, when I speak to them, I just can't tell them

339
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:46,920
that he knows.

340
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:47,920
Let's unpack that.

341
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:48,920
Let's unpack that.

342
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:49,920
What's that about?

343
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,520
And then I see that there is actually a communication incompetence here.

344
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,320
But people are like, no, I don't have an incompetence.

345
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:57,480
I speak with you all the time.

346
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:58,880
Like, of course, you're safe.

347
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,680
You know, we know each other.

348
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:01,680
We're comfortable.

349
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,080
So first step is admitting that you've got an issue.

350
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,600
And then I'm going to break it down into the elements.

351
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,200
So admitting that you've got an issue.

352
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:18,560
And then before I go into the elements, highlight where is this issue the most prevalent.

353
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,800
Like where is it bothering you the most?

354
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:22,800
Is it at work?

355
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,800
Is it in your personal relationships?

356
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,720
Is it in family?

357
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,240
Is it with strangers?

358
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,240
Is it in?

359
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,240
And this is important because the approach differs, right?

360
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:41,160
And you'll find that there is a, you know, a very accurate mapping between where it happens

361
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,480
and the safety that you feel in that space.

362
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:50,560
And if it only happens at work and everywhere else you're comfortable, then you need to see

363
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:51,560
someone about that.

364
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:52,560
Yeah.

365
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:57,760
And you know, you have to see people who are professionals at addressing your relationship

366
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:03,560
to work and the health and how psychologically safe you feel in that environment.

367
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:09,800
And that really contributes a lot because a lot of getting competent at the skill is

368
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:10,800
making mistakes.

369
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:11,800
Trial and error.

370
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:12,800
Trying things out.

371
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:13,800
The more you try them out, the better you get.

372
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:19,040
But if you don't have an environment that's safe enough for you to try things out, then

373
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,120
you know, it's like a catch-22.

374
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:26,120
You want to improve, but you're not safe enough to have the runway to improve.

375
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:30,320
And so if the workplace, for instance, let's use that for an example, because I think that's

376
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:35,080
the most practical, you find that in the workplace you don't feel safe.

377
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,440
What are the pockets within there that are safe?

378
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,280
So now you're trying to find a place where you can practice.

379
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,280
Know yourself.

380
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:43,800
I have a problem.

381
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,760
This problem is the biggest pain point of this problem is at work.

382
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,520
I don't feel safe at work.

383
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:55,840
Whenever I feel safe at work, oh, and I'm going through my journey here as well.

384
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,840
When I talk to a sister in the kitchen, we laugh it up.

385
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:00,840
We really connect.

386
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,200
And I'm able to have a conversation with her.

387
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:14,960
I wish I could take that energy to the top complete, the boardroom, my meetings, my interviews,

388
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,200
when I negotiate for salary.

389
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,280
So I now have a point of reference within the workplace.

390
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:27,200
And I know how I show up when I'm talking to what's this turning for the sake of the

391
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,200
example.

392
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,280
I'm laughing out loud.

393
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:31,280
I'm jubilant.

394
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,280
I'm just sharp as my true self.

395
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:36,280
I use my body.

396
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,280
I use my voice.

397
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,280
I use my face.

398
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:43,280
But when I'm in a meeting, then, you know?

399
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,320
So I now at least have a reference point that I can map that to.

400
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:53,480
Then it's mapping out the steps of how can I transfer uThabani in the kitchen with uSis Thandi

401
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,680
to uThabani in the boardroom with uSis Thandeka.

402
00:22:58,680 --> 00:22:59,680
Right?

403
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,800
And then there's a mapping that you can do.

404
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,000
I'll give a tool that you can use practically.

405
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,160
In public speaking, there is the tools that you're working with.

406
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,640
It's your voice.

407
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,680
It's your body.

408
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,320
And it is your eyes, eye contact, and ability to connect with people.

409
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,880
So it's those three tools that you're working with that are on your person.

410
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,760
Or at the very least, these are the things that people look at when they're listening

411
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,760
to how strong of a communicator you are, how compelling your message sounds.

412
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,760
You're working with those three.

413
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:40,480
So I'm asking myself practically, in the kitchen with uSis Thandi, how does my voice

414
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:41,480
sound?

415
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,160
Am I speaking with a low tone?

416
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,160
Am I excited?

417
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:46,160
Yeah.

418
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:47,160
How does my voice sound?

419
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:48,160
And I'm responding.

420
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,160
Let me not go too technical.

421
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,280
Just how does my voice sound?

422
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,880
And my voice, the body of it, you know?

423
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:57,880
Am I loud?

424
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,880
How does my laughter sound?

425
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:00,880
Am I loud?

426
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,320
And then in the boardroom.

427
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,320
Yeah.

428
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:05,320
Right?

429
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,920
So that's the first one.

430
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,080
Voice?

431
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,240
How can I match that voice?

432
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:16,320
When you ask yourself in the boardroom, what elements can you steal from your kitchen self

433
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,080
and bring to the boardroom?

434
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,840
Maybe I say, you know what?

435
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,480
I want to be a bit louder.

436
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,320
I think my volume is too low when I'm in the boardroom.

437
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,200
Or I want to increase my frequency of speaking.

438
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,960
So in a meeting, I speak twice.

439
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:40,200
But in a conversation with uSis Thandi, I'm speaking 70% of the time.

440
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,600
So in the boardroom, increase it to 30%.

441
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,760
In the following meeting to 40%.

442
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,400
In the following meeting to 50%.

443
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,560
So that's mapping your voice from the kitchen to the boardroom.

444
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,000
And then it is your body.

445
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,000
How does my body look?

446
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,000
How does my posture look?

447
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,160
When I'm in the kitchen, I'm throwing my hands around.

448
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,200
I'm hitting her on the bed top.

449
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,200
I'm relaxed.

450
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,200
Right?

451
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,320
But when I'm in the boardroom, I'm to myself.

452
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,800
I'm at my computer.

453
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:16,200
And typically, when we are safe and free and open, our body is open up naturally.

454
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,960
And when we are unsafe, we close up and you do yourself.

455
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,200
And of course, the safest position is the fetal position.

456
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,680
And you sort of sit there, in your head.

457
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,680
That's what you actually want to do.

458
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,280
You want to sit there and rock yourself.

459
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,400
And rock yourself to sleep when you're like, it's okay.

460
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:34,400
And self-soothe.

461
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,400
But when you're safe, you're open.

462
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,720
You sort of want to laugh out loud, you want to open up your body language.

463
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,400
Transfer some of that through.

464
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,120
How do I look like in the boardroom?

465
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:45,920
How does my posture look like?

466
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,320
And I'm not talking power poses here.

467
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,400
I mean, am I comfortable in my body when I'm inside that boardroom?

468
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,400
No.

469
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,400
What steps can I take to be more comfortable?

470
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,400
Okay.

471
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:57,400
I want to sit up.

472
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:58,400
Let's start there.

473
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,400
I want to use my hands a lot more.

474
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:07,080
Especially when a question is being asked instead of saying, I've got a question.

475
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,600
I want to pick my hand up.

476
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,840
It's a micro movement that moves you towards being more competent.

477
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,400
So that's you've moved the voice, you've moved a bit of the body.

478
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,880
Then it's eye contact.

479
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,200
Comfort levels increase eye contact.

480
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,120
The more comfortable I am with you, the more eye contact I'm able to make with you.

481
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:30,520
This can sometimes be tough because culturally, you're sometimes taught to don't look at elder's in the eyes

482
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,440
well as you do.

483
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:33,440
Which is fine.

484
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:39,600
I think it's fair, culturally appropriate and wanting to give reverence to that.

485
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:46,800
And I think it's fair to say that the mode of operation, at least in the workplace, is

486
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,280
different to the mode of operation in the cultural background.

487
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,080
You need to be able to be dynamic in that way.

488
00:26:54,080 --> 00:27:02,040
So if your comfort levels are compromised when you look down in the boardroom, your

489
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,240
eyes are a bit more.

490
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,920
Maybe if you don't look at anyone, maybe just try and look at a few people every now and

491
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:09,920
again.

492
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,000
And how you can do this practically, stop by looking at people when they speak because

493
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,680
it's easier to look at someone in the eye when they're speaking versus when you're speaking.

494
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,280
So when they speak, just try and look them in the eye.

495
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,280
Then look, then so-and-so speak.

496
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:22,280
You look them in the eye, so-and-so speak.

497
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,280
You look them in the eye.

498
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,280
You look them in the eye.

499
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,280
You're practicing, put by bit, put by bit.

500
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,280
I'll say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

501
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,280
Yes.

502
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,280
And then over time, you then incorporate that when you're speaking, you look people in

503
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,280
the eye.

504
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,360
So you've transferred your voice.

505
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:36,760
You've transferred your body.

506
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,640
You've transferred your eye contact.

507
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,880
You do that long enough.

508
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,720
You are becoming a more effective communicator.

509
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,760
And you'll see in how people respond to you.

510
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,000
You'll see that when you contribute more in a meeting, and contributing more in a meeting

511
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,440
can even sound like hopping onto a meeting first online and saying, oh, hey, everyone.

512
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,720
Then people say, hey, how are you?

513
00:27:58,720 --> 00:27:59,880
Good.

514
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:05,840
And just take the step and say, even if you're not leading the meeting, this is the powerful

515
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:06,960
line.

516
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,600
I see people haven't joined the meeting yet.

517
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:10,920
Let's wait a few minutes.

518
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,040
You've been invited to this meeting, but you can practically see that this meeting has

519
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,680
50 people that are supposed to join, and there are only three of you there.

520
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:19,680
Say that line.

521
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:20,680
Use that line.

522
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,720
And then every meeting, say it.

523
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:23,720
Practice it.

524
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,640
And what happens is then people start responding to your, you know, you say, yeah, let's just

525
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:29,640
wait a bit.

526
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,280
Yeah, people already do this.

527
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:36,120
Anyway, you know, so you then get into the conversation and you now know my conversational

528
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:40,120
game in a meeting is going up, right?

529
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,320
I'm able to use my voice to throw my voice into the space a lot more.

530
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,760
I'm more comfortable looking at people in the eye.

531
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,760
I'm more comfortable using my body.

532
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:53,800
And naturally you'll start coming into yourself more and more will start coming into yourself.

533
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,200
So I think as a start, people can use that as a starting point.

534
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,440
And to sustain that, we can chat about what some of the sustaining, the sustaining practices

535
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,720
are over time.

536
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,320
But as a start, as someone who says, I'm struggling to speak at work, those should put you in

537
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:11,400
good stead.

538
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,800
Try those consistently every day for three months and come back to me and tell me they

539
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:16,800
don't work.

540
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:17,800
Yeah.

541
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,800
So I think now you're touching on something that also gets confused a lot because I think

542
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,800
most of the time we can come such freeze moments.

543
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:23,800
I can't even think.

544
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,800
I need more confidence.

545
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:27,800
Do you feel like that is common?

546
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:33,800
Like people can't use confidence or communication or do the two go hand in hand?

547
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,680
Yeah, so and with every workshop, that's what people say.

548
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:43,240
I ask, I'll never, I've never been in a workshop where people don't say, I say, okay, I'm going

549
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,000
to train at public speak.

550
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,000
Not in expectations.

551
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,000
And they say, I want to be more confident.

552
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,000
And I say, I left my confidence shot back in the car.

553
00:29:53,000 --> 00:30:00,120
Maybe, you know, so, but the myth there is I'm going to be confident or I communicate

554
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,440
because I'm confident.

555
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,880
It switched around.

556
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,920
I'm confident because I communicate.

557
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,920
And the bridge between those two is competence.

558
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:18,360
So you, you, you're not confident, at least for me, let me talk about myself.

559
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:25,240
I'm not confident in my ability to communicate because I'm a confident human being.

560
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,680
I'm confident in my ability to communicate because I'm a competent communicator.

561
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,920
I've trained how to use my voice.

562
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,080
I've trained how to use my body.

563
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,520
I've trained how to connect with people using eye contact.

564
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,680
I've, I've built that competence.

565
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,040
And as a result, you can put me in any situation.

566
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,280
I might not know the answer.

567
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,760
I might not know what we're talking about.

568
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,640
But I know I have the competence to say, sorry, I didn't hear the question.

569
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,160
Please ask the question again.

570
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,880
Or I'm not over in what the topic was speaking about.

571
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,360
Maybe provide more context.

572
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:02,360
Right.

573
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,360
And I think you are correct.

574
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,720
People do switch these around.

575
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:11,280
They think that confidence and the ability to communicate are the same thing, but confidence

576
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,960
is the result of being able to communicate, being competent at communicating.

577
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,880
So, and I often say, or I often ask the question, I want to, they say I want to be confident.

578
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,000
Make want to be confident in what?

579
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,000
They're like, oh, no, yeah, I'm like, as a person.

580
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:33,000
I meant the reality is, if you call me to do surgery, I'm not confident.

581
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,000
I'm like, no.

582
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,000
Yeah.

583
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,000
I'm like, no, I analyze businesses where you live.

584
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,000
I'm an engineer.

585
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,760
I don't, I don't slice people up.

586
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,680
So I'm not confident actually in performing surgery.

587
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,320
And there are a lot of other things that I'm not confident.

588
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,600
I'm not confident in my ability to dance.

589
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,600
I'm questioning that in my head because I'm not that confident that other people think

590
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,280
that my dance moves are wack.

591
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,400
But you know, I'm not confident in that.

592
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,640
But in my ability to communicate, I'm confident.

593
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:08,120
So ask yourself what you want to be confident in, and if you want to be a confident communicator,

594
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:09,840
build your competence.

595
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:18,680
And building your competence is brick by brick, element by element, voice, body, eye contact,

596
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,320
hand gestures, and your ability to listen.

597
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,520
That's you building the competence.

598
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:29,080
And then you'll find that when you've got that competence, there's no reason why you

599
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:34,160
wouldn't contribute in a meeting when there's something you're uncertain about.

600
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,000
You're like, no man, something, I miss something here.

601
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,640
I am able to unmute and say, no, sorry, sorry, let's track back.

602
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,120
I missed this, that, that.

603
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,880
Not because I'm confident in my technical capability.

604
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:53,480
I know that I'm competent and I've listened, I've comprehended, and there's a gap for

605
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:54,480
me.

606
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,520
And I'll be able to convey that gap effectively.

607
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,320
Not going to ramble, not going to ask something that hasn't been spoken about.

608
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,320
I'm going to communicate effectively that which I, the gap.

609
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,320
So it's competence.

610
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,120
Competence is the thing that people should go for, and confidence will come as a result.

611
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:17,040
And do you feel that when we ask for help, for example, in these situations that we find

612
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,880
ourselves in, how do we overcome the fear of shame in asking for help or asking a question

613
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,760
that the presenter has probably touched on by dressing, catching up to that concept?

614
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,240
Yeah, a lot of it is experimentation.

615
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:39,200
And I say that because I think we overstate how shameful asking questions are.

616
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,200
I think we overstate how a lot of people are like, I don't want to ask a question that

617
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,720
was going to be stupid, stupid question.

618
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:53,560
I think we overstate how people evaluate what stupid is.

619
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:59,040
And also, I must say this, I think we overstate how much people care.

620
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,520
You know, people don't care.

621
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:07,000
I promise you, and I've experimented and played around with this, I've deliberately

622
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,720
asked a stupid question.

623
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:11,800
Like not a stupid question, let me not call it stupid.

624
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:18,120
I've asked a question that if I was listening, I wouldn't have asked that question.

625
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,120
And then I try and gauge.

626
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,560
People are like, no, you asked the question.

627
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,120
I don't even know what question you asked.

628
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:32,640
So because we've got this gallery of people in our minds that are watching every single

629
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:38,800
thing we do with no pants argument, why would one need to say that?

630
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:45,600
We've got this gallery of people and then we overplay the stakes of us asking a question.

631
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,320
And this is not to say that every situation is laissez-faire, it's chill.

632
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,360
You can sort of shop or whatever.

633
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,440
It's not true.

634
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,240
It's important that you're able to give reverence to whatever situation there is.

635
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:03,040
So if you're in whatever forum that you're in, it's important that you listen.

636
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,280
It's important that you try and take notes and you play by what's been spoken about

637
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:12,240
and be able to know the gravitas of the situation that you're in.

638
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:17,960
And I think it's also important that you realize that people don't care.

639
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,080
People don't listen that attentively.

640
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,440
People listen to ideas more than they do to words.

641
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,440
If I were to ask you to play by the same as I just said, no one is ever able to play that

642
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,760
back because people don't listen to, oh, you said this and that and that and the thing

643
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,760
that I always point out, and I think I'm going to do this for the audience as well, I've

644
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:44,680
got a thick lisp, like a thick, but people aren't able to hear that until I tell them.

645
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,080
So if I was self-conscious about that, I think, oh, let me not speak because people are going

646
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,160
to be thinking about how sissy, sissy, sissy, you know?

647
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:57,040
But I'm like, also, they don't care to pay attention to that stuff.

648
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:02,360
So the micro detail that we think people are paying attention to is not there.

649
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:08,720
And so that chain that you might feel I'd challenge you to experiment with it.

650
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,320
Whenever you feel like you need to ask this question, it might be a stupid question.

651
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:19,120
And then query after you've asked it, how high were those stakes?

652
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,120
You know?

653
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:25,360
And again, cautioning here, for instance, in the world that I operate in, I'm in the

654
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,320
consulting world, I ask more questions than client meetings.

655
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:36,480
I ask more questions that are pointed at clarifying what they say, but less questions about my

656
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,280
work and my competence.

657
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:44,200
But if I'm in a meeting with fellow colleagues and someone says, yeah, the CRM is, I'm like,

658
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,200
what's a CRM?

659
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:47,200
You know?

660
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,200
I'm not going to ask that in client meetings because I know that I'm supposed to know what

661
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,040
a CRM is in a client meeting.

662
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,080
And because I know that if I throw that in as a question in a client meeting, then it's

663
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,640
going to be like, this guy doesn't know what a CRM is.

664
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:04,680
So it's looking at the situation and giving it the reverence that it deserves.

665
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,800
And then just asking the questions.

666
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,600
The safer the environment, the more questions you should ask.

667
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,360
And then be able to see how high are these stakes here?

668
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:15,640
How high are these stakes?

669
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,320
And stakes are not, and people make this mistake.

670
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,920
People think audience size is a stake.

671
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,120
It's not a stake.

672
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,920
Like the number of people in a room doesn't make that meeting high stakes or that situation

673
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:28,920
more high stakes.

674
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,680
Yes, it contributes to how nervous you feel.

675
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:39,560
It contributes to your level of anxiety because again, there's more ambiguity, right?

676
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,840
With two people, there's less ambiguity than a movie with 50 people.

677
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,880
And the room for judgment and all those other things.

678
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,480
And yeah, there's just more ambiguity.

679
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:51,960
But that doesn't mean the stakes are high.

680
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,280
It doesn't naturally mean the stakes are higher.

681
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,560
So before you ask the question, have real conversation with yourself.

682
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,080
You can even do this before a meeting or forum.

683
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:07,840
And I give actually this as a tool to some of my students.

684
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:14,280
I'll say write down five questions that you're going to ask in every meeting.

685
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,160
And like, ah, five is too much.

686
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,400
I'm like, then do three.

687
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:23,960
So before the meeting starts, you know that you've got a three question quota to put your

688
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,920
voice in there and also to see and recognize that the stakes typically aren't as high as

689
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:30,920
we think they are.

690
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,080
They really aren't in what I've seen.

691
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:41,600
So that chain is not the stakes on its high as you think they are.

692
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,760
And unfortunately, most of us realize this in our 80s.

693
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,480
Have you heard how disrespectful 80 year olds are?

694
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:54,920
Because they've got one of this thing, they're like, ah, I'm just going to go unhinged.

695
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:00,320
And so that not caring comes later on in life.

696
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,280
And sometimes it's misplaced and it's displaced because they can be very rude and toxic.

697
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,480
But the point is try out and test the waters.

698
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,520
They say, ooh, maybe that was a bit too much.

699
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,200
So this is the zone that I need to play here.

700
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:15,800
So in terms of relationships, right?

701
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,040
So how do we communicate better with our people that care for us?

702
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,040
And how do we ask help?

703
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:26,160
I mean, you find, for example, when you look at mental health statistics, most of the tragedies

704
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,040
that happen around mental health fall out is the lack of localizing help.

705
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:36,480
It's like being an aftermath of a lot of dangers that still plague our societies.

706
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,280
How do we communicate with loved ones that, hey, this is what I'm struggling with.

707
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,520
This is how I can connect better with my partner, for example.

708
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:50,160
Or this is how I can communicate my need in this relationship.

709
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:58,680
So I wanted to give that on some thought because I think the first layer, and I've noticed

710
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:05,560
in my life personally, where it's important that you know who's in your support system

711
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:06,560
first.

712
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:12,360
And I say this because if you're in my support system, one, I need for you to know that you

713
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,560
know that you're my person.

714
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,920
You can't be my person and you're just my person to me because when I tell you something

715
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:27,600
and you don't respond with the love, support, follow up that I need, it's going to decrease

716
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,440
the chances of me doing that again in the future.

717
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:36,760
And if I do that with 10 people and then I get the same response, then the belief that

718
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,240
forms in my mind is that when I speak to people, they don't respond.

719
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:45,920
But the truth is, those people don't know that you're their people.

720
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,760
Because I think your people will know.

721
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,800
So I think I want to put that out as a caveat before.

722
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,480
And then I'm going to move to the communication side of things.

723
00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:02,840
In any communication experience or instance, there is the expression and the perception.

724
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,520
And I'm a big fan of over-communicating.

725
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:15,600
If we're in relationship, I come to you and I let you know, look, there's a bit of a,

726
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:20,120
I try as far as possible, especially with loved ones and those that are close to me.

727
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:26,560
I try as far as possible to be as outright and direct with what it is that I'm feeling

728
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,120
and possibly what support I might need.

729
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,280
And if I don't know what that support is, I can say, I don't know why I'm telling you

730
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:39,200
this, but I feel compelled to share that dot dot dot.

731
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:44,800
So as a go-to, so I start off by having that person know that you're my person and when

732
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,840
I'm in trouble, I'm expecting to show.

733
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,600
Are you consenting to that?

734
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,200
That's not commitment.

735
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:53,680
How far do I go?

736
00:41:53,680 --> 00:42:00,080
And if they say, no, that's a lot of work.

737
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,000
And I've had some of those conversations.

738
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,400
Some people have said, you're a bit intense.

739
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,360
You know, like you're a bit intense.

740
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,440
I don't know if I can, I'm like, fair, at least it's clear.

741
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,720
So that having an honest conversation of knowing who's in your corner.

742
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:19,520
And then when you go to that corner, realizing that there's what you say and is what they

743
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,760
perceive, the expression and the perception and trying to have those be as close to each

744
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:30,480
other as possible and how you can get those as close to each other as possible by over

745
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:35,360
communicating and being as explicit as possible.

746
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,200
So this takes a leap.

747
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,520
And people don't start from the same points.

748
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:46,680
People, some grew up in families where shame wasn't a thing.

749
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:54,080
Some grew up in families where sharing your problems with other people wasn't a thing.

750
00:42:54,080 --> 00:43:00,040
Which is why that first step is establishing a safe and secure support.

751
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:06,760
Someone called it a secure attachment, you know, and to attach and to latch onto another

752
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,640
human being is a massive responsibility.

753
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:18,640
One, when you consent to do that, you're in essence saying, it's not I'm giving

754
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:25,720
you my life, but I'm giving you a heavy influence in my decision-making.

755
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:29,160
And then setting those people up in concentration circles as well.

756
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:39,160
I don't know where I heard this recently, but knowing that when I'm having a self-doubt moment,

757
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,520
this is the person that I can go to.

758
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:47,080
And if I'm having a, I need to jump over this hurdle moment, this is the person I'm going

759
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,080
to.

760
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,040
And the importance of that is the way you place those people.

761
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,880
There are some people in my life who are just saying it like it is a type of people.

762
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,960
I'm not going to take anything less.

763
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,560
You're making excuses.

764
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,200
That's actually the person I'm thinking about.

765
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,160
That's their favorite phrase.

766
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:06,160
That's an excuse.

767
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,160
What's going on?

768
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,160
Yeah.

769
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,160
I'm not going to want to go to that person when I'm feeling tender.

770
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,160
If I'm feeling tender, then you tell me that.

771
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,160
I'm like, yeah.

772
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:20,040
And then they're like, yeah, no, you're making excuses.

773
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,040
That's not the council I need.

774
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:26,160
I'm going to need someone who's going to say, tell me more.

775
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,160
How did that make you feel?

776
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,160
Okay.

777
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,640
And then once I've contextualized all of that, I can then go to the making excuses person

778
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:33,640
I'm thinking about.

779
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:34,640
How do I confront this?

780
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,640
Then I say, I'm going to send them an email and then they'll say, no, you're making excuses.

781
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:44,120
You're being passive because of what they, so, you know, setting knowing those people

782
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:50,440
and your relationship with them, then of course knowing yourself and what you respond to when

783
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:55,680
I think setting those as primary foundations.

784
00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:01,000
So again, to summarize, you have a consensual support system, the people know that they

785
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:06,880
are good people, you place them in accordance to what and how they can serve you and over

786
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:13,280
delivering on the communication when you speak to them and then just being aware of the relationship

787
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:14,880
that you have with them.

788
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,360
And that then should dictate the communication jobs.

789
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:24,280
And when I say that, there are some people for instance, that I can't swear in front

790
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:25,440
of, right?

791
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,440
My mom.

792
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:27,440
Yeah.

793
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,680
I'm not going to say, I have a...

794
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,640
You know, if she asked me how my day was, I'm not going to cuss.

795
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,320
I'm going to say it was a tough one.

796
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,080
You know, they should respond in a motherly way or whatever, whatever.

797
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:46,560
But with some people, I can easily say they'll call me and I'm like, I don't have time for

798
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:47,560
this now.

799
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:48,560
Leave me alone.

800
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,120
And they know that it's a call for help.

801
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,600
They know that I'm in trouble and then they know how to communicate.

802
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,800
They know, okay, he's just done this.

803
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:02,600
They may call you immediately or they may pop a message to say, look, I'm seeing you

804
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:03,600
in a state.

805
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,760
Didn't appreciate this.

806
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,960
You don't speak to me like that.

807
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,560
And I'm here if you want to chat.

808
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:16,200
So now they know, I know those people when they say that, I'm not going to be like,

809
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,200
what the hell?

810
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,440
You know, who the hell are you talking about?

811
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,560
Your feelings when I've got mine.

812
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:30,200
And so the terms of communication are dictated by the relationship that exists and how transparent

813
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:36,480
you are, how forthcoming you are, how honest you are, all of that then plays there.

814
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,760
So that's a long-winded answer to that question.

815
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,840
It's all about relationship and safety.

816
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:47,240
It's all about relationship and safety and the consensual terms of engagement.

817
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:52,720
Those are so important to have conversations like that.

818
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:53,720
How do you want to be spoken to?

819
00:46:53,720 --> 00:47:00,920
For instance, I don't do well with, I need someone to say, okay, I hear what you're saying.

820
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:01,920
Here's a perspective.

821
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:02,920
Here's a perspective.

822
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:03,920
Here's a perspective.

823
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:04,920
Here's a perspective.

824
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:10,560
I really like that, but depending on where I'm at, if I'm down, down, down, don't give

825
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:11,560
me perspectives.

826
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,560
Give me a hug and say it's okay.

827
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,440
You don't have to say I'm right.

828
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:16,440
Don't lie to me also.

829
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:17,960
Don't say, no, no, you're right.

830
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:18,960
They're wrong.

831
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,160
Let's move forward because I'm going to be on some no.

832
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,240
I know that I'm probably not right.

833
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:30,560
So I know how, and I've had those conversations with certain people that I appreciate your

834
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:31,560
input.

835
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,320
I think this is not sincere.

836
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,800
Like what are your thoughts?

837
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,960
And over time, you didn't see the people that are willing to delve into their thoughts.

838
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:42,960
And those are like, no.

839
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,160
And they'll use a high-pitched voice even.

840
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:46,720
No, you're fine.

841
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:51,960
Then I'm like, okay, maybe I should cut this relationship and start working, start serving

842
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:52,960
the both of us.

843
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,280
And they're a person not able to be honest with me.

844
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:00,240
But if you enjoy and appreciate and are served by that, then seek those people out and move

845
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:02,040
forward with them accordingly.

846
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:08,320
You elitized on like, you going back to like the boys school, as you mentioned earlier,

847
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:13,320
helping other men rethink their minds, they talk, change that denialism about how they

848
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,520
think about women specifically or other groups.

849
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:22,600
How do you feel that the state of mentality among men is towards giving the rising GBV,

850
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:30,520
giving so many almost anti-other human life narratives?

851
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,320
How should men approach that?

852
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,480
You are struggling with that mindset.

853
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,000
How do they approach a better state in that?

854
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:49,000
By healing first day, I think hurt people hurt people and unhealed wounds bleed on people.

855
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:58,720
Unfortunately, I've never come across someone in a healthy state that will be unkind, that

856
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:04,080
will be rude, belittling, that will be abusive.

857
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:09,880
I don't think I've come across someone who's in a healthy state and is comfortable with

858
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,600
who they are and knows where they trigger points.

859
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:21,960
I've never met someone who's aware and that's been rude and troublesome.

860
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:27,600
With that said, the healing is the first part and drilling into that healing journey.

861
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:33,640
The reality is we all have scars that are for a mess over time.

862
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:42,720
And you then become what you grew up seeing either consciously or subconsciously.

863
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:46,880
And you then react and act in the world.

864
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,440
You show up as that.

865
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:55,360
And if you're not aware and you don't know that those landmines, those triggers are there,

866
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,120
you then end up projecting and you hurt people.

867
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,600
So I think that the core of it is healing.

868
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:01,600
People need to heal.

869
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:08,800
I've also never heard of someone saying all of abuse just existing in isolation.

870
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,440
Someone saying, no, I just thought, let me just be rude.

871
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,120
I just thought, let me just out of the blue.

872
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:17,120
I was fine.

873
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:23,840
I was just sitting when they sat down and I thought, let me just eliminate.

874
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,040
It's always a reaction to something.

875
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:37,040
And there's a very twisted sick cycle around your oppression and transferring it.

876
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:42,160
There's a very sick cycle of when you've been.

877
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,680
And I think at the core of it is just the insecurity.

878
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,480
I don't feel safe.

879
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:55,800
I don't feel attacked in some other way, be it by your existence, by your confidence,

880
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:01,760
by something that you're imposing that's making you feel unsafe and insecure.

881
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:09,040
So I'm directly mapping that lack of safety to an insecurity because you're lacking security.

882
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,080
And we all experienced this.

883
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:20,200
I think unfortunately, men have gotten a, there's another cycle there in that it's almost

884
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:24,760
like you feel big feelings, but you never know where to take or how to address those

885
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:25,760
big feelings.

886
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,960
Give you a simple example.

887
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,200
And this happened to me personally over a longer period of time.

888
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,960
Like I no longer, and this is a miracle.

889
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,640
I think it's a big transformation.

890
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:45,680
I no longer react to taxi drivers on the road when they do these things.

891
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:51,120
And for me, it's miraculous because when they, I'm, I used to drive taxis.

892
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:56,160
So my driving skills have been, let's say painted by some of the practices that are

893
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:57,600
from there.

894
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:02,280
So when they do that, I sort of understand the mentality.

895
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,680
It's almost like, like, here's a situation that needs taken advantage of this person

896
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:07,760
is slow.

897
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,600
This person is not focused.

898
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:11,880
Like they just not on the clock.

899
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:12,880
I'm on the clock.

900
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:13,880
I'm busy working here.

901
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:14,880
I need to make my money.

902
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,400
And you're getting in the way of that.

903
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:21,720
So let me disrespect you or let me step over you.

904
00:52:21,720 --> 00:52:23,000
Let me walk all over you.

905
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,680
It's bullying actually what they do.

906
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,600
It's actually bullying what they do and how they treat the rules of the road.

907
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,840
Let me bully you and let me get what I want to your detriment.

908
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:40,800
Now because I've been a taxi driver and I've unfortunately done that to other people, I

909
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:47,380
now know the mentality that or the approach that they use when they do that to people.

910
00:52:47,380 --> 00:52:53,560
So when they did this to me, I was like, who the hell did you think I am?

911
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:58,880
And again, it's exactly that loop.

912
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:05,960
I realized that my intention of hurting is so that I can secure myself, put myself in

913
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:07,480
a better position.

914
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,560
When that's done to me, I know the intention behind it.

915
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:12,800
And so I personalized it.

916
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:17,240
I made it about myself and I'll always without fail.

917
00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:22,240
When there was a taxi driver on the road, the antics outpour and it's not even rolling

918
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:24,600
the window down or shouting.

919
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,080
It's like, okay, no, no, no, it's fine.

920
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,400
I'll show you.

921
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:29,720
You come in front of me.

922
00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:35,160
I'm going to spend the rest of this afternoon to ensure that you get to your destination

923
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,160
five minutes later.

924
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,120
I can be late, it's fine.

925
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:42,440
But you're not getting there because you've just done what you've done to me.

926
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:48,920
And through healing, I've realized that no, it's none of my business.

927
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:50,920
You know, they doing it.

928
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,200
Yes, it is an inconvenience to me.

929
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,280
Yes, it puts me at risk.

930
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,840
Yes it compromises my flow, right?

931
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:02,560
Because if someone quickly cuts into you, you know, and there's that quick burst of energy

932
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,840
that fight flight of freeze that comes in or freak out that comes in.

933
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,800
But when I quickly caught that, I'm like, no, I'm projecting because I feel disrespected.

934
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,360
I feel belittled.

935
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:18,480
More importantly, I feel unseen, unheard, unvalued.

936
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,040
Oh, what's that reminding me of?

937
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:27,600
All of those situations, especially for instance, social situations where I sort of have adopted

938
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:32,560
Yeah, like it's a, I'm in a social situation.

939
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:38,880
Everyone's having fun and I'm trying to get my voice in, but none seem to, or I step

940
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:48,080
in and feel like, anyway, you know, so in that microenvironment of the taxi, cutting

941
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:52,000
in front of me, all of those feelings are coming in.

942
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:57,560
And the narrative I'm telling myself is I'm not worth being seen.

943
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:02,720
I'm, yeah, I'm just not someone who's worth considering.

944
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:07,920
And this person is not considering me because the story is I'm not worth being seen.

945
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,960
And then I project.

946
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:14,360
But when I caught, I was like, ah, it's all my business.

947
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:19,360
Of course I get pissed off that I'm like me engaging in this thing with this person.

948
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,800
I'm not going to solve anything.

949
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,000
So I've got to make me feel like I'm enough.

950
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,800
It's not going to make me feel like I'm lovable.

951
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,880
It's not going to make me feel seen.

952
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,520
Maybe in the moment it's going to make me feel seen and heard.

953
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,240
And then I can be like, yeah, yeah, I shout at that thing.

954
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:37,680
It's not going to make me feel more valued.

955
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,560
How was your experience as a taxi driver?

956
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,120
It was interesting.

957
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,440
Hey, it was really interesting.

958
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,160
It was we used to do it over the holidays.

959
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,360
So I wasn't a full-time taxi driver.

960
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,320
It was like a side hustle that I did when it was school holidays.

961
00:55:53,320 --> 00:56:00,640
And we used to drive longer distances from emalalini, which is the villages to town.

962
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,120
And they always used to be another.

963
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:07,200
We used to step in for our uncle who was the driver.

964
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,320
We'd sometimes be like, you want to learn up?

965
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,720
And of course, when you grow up, you're like, yeah, you want to drive?

966
00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:13,840
Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.

967
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,840
And then we'd hop onto those trips and he'd let us drive.

968
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,800
And then of course, we're growing up with very impressionable.

969
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:27,040
And we learned some of the practices that they have, you know, the shouting at the passengers,

970
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:34,480
the yelling on the road, the cutting lines, even some of the lines that we regurgitated.

971
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,240
Like, oh, this one is steeping.

972
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:38,600
You know, oh, yeah, here's the steepest in front of us.

973
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,440
It's just quickly, you know.

974
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,320
So yeah, that was my experience in driving taxis.

975
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,440
It isn't as elaborate as I would want it to be.

976
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:53,520
It was a very short lift over certain holidays, but I definitely adopted a lot of negative

977
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:55,200
traits in that time.

978
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,000
I also adopted quite positive traits.

979
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,280
I would even say more positive than negative.

980
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:05,600
But of course, it's those negative ones that have been not served in this time has gone.

981
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:10,080
You know, with the economy and its titters right now, you know, everyone is looking for

982
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:11,080
a recovery.

983
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:17,120
You find a lot of people still cannot afford if you look at the average basket of goods

984
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:20,160
receiving incomes that aren't enough for them to go to work.

985
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,240
You know, with the public transport system.

986
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:28,360
What would you say how the tax industry or government or the economy at all can work

987
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,640
together to communicate solutions in that situation?

988
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,920
Yeah, I, my master's research was about that.

989
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:36,920
Yeah.

990
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:43,600
But we're speaking about how the government and the minibus taxi industry could conspire

991
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:47,800
to make the user experience the most conducive.

992
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,080
And that's the question I still ask myself to this day.

993
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,200
I don't have the answer to it.

994
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:59,760
I think what I found was because I mapped out the relationships between so there's the

995
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:04,200
owner, the driver, and I'm looking at the people that are involved.

996
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,120
There's the owner, there's the driver, there's the commuter.

997
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:11,120
And then of course, there's the government and the support staff that are around the

998
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,120
taxi industry.

999
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:17,520
But the core ones are, or the core ones that showed, the strongest sort of ties and

1000
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,920
relationships and dependencies is the owner, the driver and the commuter.

1001
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:27,400
The owner requires a certain amount of money at the end of the day or the week, depending

1002
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,640
on the agreement they have with the driver.

1003
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,720
Maybe the drivers that drive don't own the vehicles.

1004
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:38,280
And so they're both chasing target and trying to get their salary.

1005
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,640
And of course, the commuters are what make the business run.

1006
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,440
The customers are it.

1007
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,560
If the commuters don't pay, there's no business.

1008
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,120
There's no running money.

1009
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:53,080
What makes the situation tough in South Africa is exactly what you're referring to that level

1010
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,000
of dependency.

1011
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:59,960
Everyone's financial situation doesn't allow them to have the optionality to use other

1012
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:00,960
modes.

1013
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:05,160
So in transport science, there's a called captive users.

1014
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:10,880
They don't have the optionality to use either a bus, a Uber or they don't have either

1015
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:11,880
horse.

1016
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:13,160
They don't have extra luxuries anyway.

1017
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:14,160
Yeah.

1018
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:15,760
It's taxi, you're captive to the taxi industry.

1019
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,560
You have to use it.

1020
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:23,040
In Cape Town, unfortunately the train was the other alternative, but the trains have since

1021
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,120
been compromised.

1022
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:34,160
And so they left to the wilds of the industry, which is why when the taxi industry stops,

1023
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:37,160
there's a flow of money from people.

1024
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:40,240
Yeah, there's no food on the table.

1025
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:41,240
Yeah.

1026
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:45,560
So when you look at that relationship with that dependency, it then causes a power dynamic

1027
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:46,560
of sorts.

1028
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:51,520
All the way from the owner, the owner has a power dynamic they have with their driver,

1029
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,160
because of course they pay their money.

1030
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:59,560
Then the commuter, there's a power dynamic between them and the driver because they don't

1031
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,480
have any other alternative.

1032
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:10,440
There also is some power dynamic that advantages the commuter in that the drivers need the commuter.

1033
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:17,000
But I think if we were to look at the percentages or even look at the contribution, people need

1034
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:18,000
to get to work.

1035
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:19,920
They don't have other alternatives.

1036
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,800
They don't have personal vehicles.

1037
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,600
They have to use the taxi and they time frames to it.

1038
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:30,720
So it's not like you can sit at the rack and say, if you're not rude, they're not going

1039
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,440
to hop into the taxi, but someone else is just going to step in and step into the taxi.

1040
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:40,000
So I know it doesn't answer your question, but what I found with the research was that

1041
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,160
they have longstanding power dynamics.

1042
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:48,880
And then when it comes to the industry and the government, I no longer consider myself

1043
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:52,800
as an expert in this because of course, there've been developments over the years.

1044
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:59,280
There is, if we look at the industry, the industry has never been under the government.

1045
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,800
The relationship between them has always been like this.

1046
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,320
They've always been rebelling even how the industry was started.

1047
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:06,640
Like a different state.

1048
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:07,640
Yeah.

1049
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:17,280
Back in the past days, the industry started by illegally transporting people from the

1050
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,320
city centers to the township.

1051
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,480
The regulations that are put, they were like, I think they were meant to only put four people

1052
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,600
in, but then that wasn't going to be economically viable for them.

1053
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:31,080
So they shut eight people in and that served the people that were on it because instead

1054
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:35,080
of having a trip that's going to take four, it's going to take eight, which means more

1055
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,240
people get to go to their place of work in the morning.

1056
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:41,800
So if you look at that early dynamic between the industry and the government, there's never

1057
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,320
been a, we're aligned.

1058
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,360
We're on the same page.

1059
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:49,200
It's always been, the government needs them to contribute to the economy.

1060
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:53,800
So they have an upper hand and natural guard, but also they still wanted to maintain their

1061
01:01:53,800 --> 01:02:01,880
autonomy and their sense of self, I guess, sort of these mavericks of business.

1062
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,480
And that still permeates the industry to this day.

1063
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:11,480
I'm not as close to it now as I don't know what the most accurate stance is, but I sense

1064
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,920
that there's still some reconciliation that needs to happen.

1065
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:16,920
And alignment.

1066
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:17,920
Yeah.

1067
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,640
Those two have never been aligned.

1068
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:25,040
And so long as those two are not aligned, the communities are going to suffer.

1069
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,880
And I think this thing about suffering, we've also seen them, because it's been over also

1070
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:32,880
into the Uber or the share riding platform that they've also emerged quite recently.

1071
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,640
It's about quite a long time.

1072
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:40,120
And we've seen in different parts of nature, it's taxi owners and taxi drivers just fighting

1073
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:41,600
for their jobs.

1074
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,120
Your job breaks my heart.

1075
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:44,120
How do we challenge that?

1076
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:49,400
Like, I think of the day as a citizen, or a user, a rider, or a passenger, you are

1077
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:54,680
left helpless and powerless in a way, because you don't have the techniques, you don't have

1078
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,320
a recourse to go about.

1079
01:02:58,320 --> 01:02:59,800
That really breaks my heart.

1080
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:01,200
That really breaks my heart.

1081
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,160
And again, it's back to insecurity.

1082
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:09,680
As a taxi driver, it's feel insecure with Uber's coming in.

1083
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,200
It's the subtraction of income.

1084
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:12,200
100%.

1085
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:13,920
It is a subtraction of income.

1086
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:14,920
I don't know.

1087
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,160
Is it just taxi?

1088
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:17,840
I don't know if...

1089
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:18,840
Because it's a different market.

1090
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:27,320
I was about to say, I don't know if the person who contributes to an Uber is as much of a

1091
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:31,320
contributor than you typical, and I'm sure they'll aggregate themselves.

1092
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,400
I haven't done the research on this.

1093
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,320
So I'm speaking under correction here.

1094
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:42,160
But I wonder how much market share Uber really takes away from the taxis.

1095
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:48,280
I genuinely wonder, especially given that you hear stories about them abusing Uber drivers

1096
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,960
that are going to drop people off at the taxi rank.

1097
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:57,000
If you don't know where that person comes from, don't know where that person is going.

1098
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,480
They've been come to...

1099
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,760
They're getting dropped off.

1100
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:06,960
They're getting dropped off for you to gain business, but they still insist on abusing

1101
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:07,960
them.

1102
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:12,640
So I really wonder, and I'll be curious to hear what the results of that research would

1103
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:19,640
be, what the actual market share that Uber's are taking away from taxes.

1104
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:24,440
So speaking, now going back to communication, all the touch done, I think we've spoke about

1105
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:31,440
coaching and the importance of going for professional services in a way like coaching, sponsorships,

1106
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:36,240
finding a sponsor for example at work who can elevate you, build that competence that

1107
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:38,840
you want to elevate next to.

1108
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,840
How would you describe those as a quintessential toolkit?

1109
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,000
How do we access these services?

1110
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:46,600
What is the value in the room?

1111
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:50,440
For example, going to a coach or going to a mentor or going to a sponsor to help me

1112
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,560
with various needs.

1113
01:04:53,560 --> 01:05:02,800
So as a caveat, I think the power of coaching, training, mentorship, having a sponsor is

1114
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:09,560
the whole idea of asking those who came before, it's almost like you can suppress the 15 years that someone

1115
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:14,160
took to a master's skill in three months, in two weeks.

1116
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:15,960
So that's the first gift.

1117
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:22,680
And I always encourage people to, and I'll tell you why this is in a moment, I always

1118
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:29,000
encourage people to do your own research, scour the internet and as a matter of fact,

1119
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,320
everything that I talk about is on the internet.

1120
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,320
I study communication, I don't come up with communication techniques.

1121
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:39,480
Yes, I come up with techniques based on what I've seen, what I've heard, what I've experienced

1122
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,240
and I'll package it in a way that's going to be digestible based on the queries that

1123
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:44,240
I've seen it.

1124
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:48,680
I've got the advantage of having a wide data set to know this is where people get

1125
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:53,480
tripped up if they've got a bad start, they're going to struggle to continue.

1126
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:57,920
So what tool can I add there to ensure that they overcome that hurdle of a bad start?

1127
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,800
So my years of experience have given me that advantage, but I always encourage people to

1128
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:08,320
scour the internet and find ways to proactively improve it themselves because by the time

1129
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:13,480
they get to someone like me, I know they've put in the time.

1130
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:18,040
I've unfortunately had people who have come to me because they've seen my services and

1131
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:22,160
they're like, no, this is affordable and I've always wanted to acquire this skill.

1132
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:25,400
And then we work and they just don't have the will.

1133
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:29,520
I can give you the ability, I can give you the skills, I can equip you with the skills.

1134
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,600
I can't give you the will.

1135
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:41,920
Unfortunately, I can't, you know, and as encouraging as I can be and as enthusiastically as I

1136
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:45,680
can speak, I can't sell you to you.

1137
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:47,080
I just can't.

1138
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:54,520
You need to buy into willing yourself to do the hours, to do the activities, to show up

1139
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,680
every time and then get yourself over the line.

1140
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:02,120
And I find people who have undergone, you know, they've read some books, they've looked at

1141
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:07,080
some things, working with them, it's a lot easier than working with people that haven't

1142
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:08,080
done that.

1143
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:13,360
So I always encourage people to look on the internet and it's as simple as five tips on

1144
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:15,320
how to become a public speaker.

1145
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:18,520
You get thousands of hits.

1146
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:20,640
Read up, read up, read up.

1147
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:24,960
So it's reading, it's practicing, it's putting it in and then it's tweaking based on that

1148
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:25,960
practice.

1149
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:27,880
Then the loop continues.

1150
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,360
So that's the first career that I want to put.

1151
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:36,240
And then again, then back to the point and how important the coaching and the training

1152
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:39,840
is and just to quickly distinguish between what coaching and training is.

1153
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,640
So training is me to a group of people.

1154
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:51,160
So I'm training a group of 15 chartered accountants or a group of 25 graduates.

1155
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:56,880
And so of course, because of that format, it's going to be a lot of input and then we'll

1156
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:01,160
slate time, we'll put time aside for them to practice and to run through.

1157
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:03,240
It's not as tailored.

1158
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,440
The coaching is more one-on-one.

1159
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:11,040
You reach out, we look at your communication ability, your level of competence, we go into

1160
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:15,880
detail to where the hurdles are, and then I also then go into the background.

1161
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,920
What kind of family did you come from?

1162
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:20,400
How was your voice growing up?

1163
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,320
Or your firstborn or your last born?

1164
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:25,280
How's the family dynamic?

1165
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:26,920
What's your relationship to conflict?

1166
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:27,920
What's your relationship?

1167
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:32,640
So I didn't do a deep dive to understand the person that's you so that I know what some

1168
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:33,640
of the hurdles are.

1169
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,280
Because it's no use me equipping you with skills.

1170
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,120
And then for instance, to go back to the earlier conversation I was speaking about, you're

1171
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:44,000
like, I've got all the skills now to use at work, then you don't feel safe at work.

1172
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:48,880
So in a one-on-one instance, I can then go through, okay, you don't feel safe at work,

1173
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:52,160
let's look at psychological safety and let's work with that.

1174
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:56,240
And then it becomes more life coaching adjacent, juxtaposed communication.

1175
01:08:56,240 --> 01:09:00,240
And of course, the core of it is to try and get you to a point where you're able to communicate

1176
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:04,840
effectively, but it's in bed with other techniques and tools that I use.

1177
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,960
Whereas with the training itself, it's purely communication.

1178
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:12,120
Go from a time standpoint, because it's normally a limited period.

1179
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:17,240
And then just for the volume of people that they have in the room, we don't have the luxury

1180
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:20,320
of going in depth with every individual.

1181
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:25,360
Although you gain the insight that's come from all the data that I've got and all the

1182
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:30,720
people that I've encountered, they typically, you know, common threats, you know, why people

1183
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:35,000
are scared of public speaking or even communicating one-on-one.

1184
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:41,280
And so the power of coaching is that you get to gain the value that I've amassed since

1185
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:45,120
I was, you know, a 13, 14-year-old.

1186
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:52,200
And I've used those and I've weaved those now into products and packages that you can

1187
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:54,800
then as a client gain from.

1188
01:09:54,800 --> 01:10:00,280
So looking forward now, like taking stock of today's conversation, what are you keeping

1189
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:04,840
with you and what are your highlights that you're going to remember from this conversation?

1190
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,560
From today, from today on overall?

1191
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,480
Yeah, I think first, thank you.

1192
01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:12,400
Yeah, this was fun.

1193
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:16,760
Thank you for having me on your platform.

1194
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:21,120
And I think I also want to honor the fact that you've entrusted me, right?

1195
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,320
You've got an audience that loves you.

1196
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:27,600
And now you've brought me in and you've exposed me to your audience.

1197
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,280
Thank you for entrusting me with that.

1198
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:30,280
So I really am grateful.

1199
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:31,920
I want to express my gratitude for that.

1200
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:33,920
I'm appreciative of that fact.

1201
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:41,000
And then secondly, I think speaking, you've made me see how, and again, I'm someone who

1202
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,240
thinks about communication all the time.

1203
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:49,440
And I often have conversations through the lens of communication and having this conversation

1204
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:53,040
with you has shown me how widespread it could be.

1205
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:58,640
You know, I mean, I'm thinking about the chat we're having about insecurity and how one's

1206
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:03,560
ability to communicate can actually foreground that insecurity.

1207
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:09,760
And how the lack of safety permeates out, actually, and how the core actual ability

1208
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,560
to communicate is based on safety.

1209
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:20,560
I mean, if I felt threatened by you, I probably wouldn't have had, you know, a conversation.

1210
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,480
I wouldn't have been this comfortable.

1211
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:25,440
We wouldn't have had the conversation that we had.

1212
01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:32,920
For instance, I'm a small as if he had a notebook saying a notebook would have been fine, actually.

1213
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:39,440
If you had a scorecard, and you're like, before the interview, you're like, okay, I'm just

1214
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:44,680
going to rate you while we talk to see how much of a 50-odd audience that would have

1215
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:45,680
increased my threat.

1216
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:46,680
Now I'm being vetted.

1217
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:51,280
Now I'm being checked out and tested.

1218
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,960
So you know, that would have contributed to my insecurity, would have lowered my level

1219
01:11:54,960 --> 01:12:00,400
of safety that I feel, and would have compromised the communication that would have had in the

1220
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,640
exchange of having this conversation.

1221
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:09,280
So I think I'm taking that away, the importance of safety and security in any communication

1222
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:10,280
instance.

1223
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:16,280
And again, you know, the importance then of using some of those levers to increase that

1224
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:19,040
safety and communication.

1225
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:25,840
Now that I step into the space knowing that I trust my level of skill, I now know whether

1226
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:30,360
the cameras here, whether there aren't, whether there's a live audience here or not, I know

1227
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:36,480
my skill, and I know that my skill has served me in various instances, and I think it's

1228
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:37,640
going to serve me here.

1229
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:43,680
So I've got the skill intact in the situation, and my physiology and my makeup is really going

1230
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,360
to influence the rest of the conversation.

1231
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,960
So yeah, those are some of my key takeaways from this.

1232
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:50,440
But thank you for trusting me.

1233
01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:53,720
No, thank you, because you've hosted me quite a lot from this conversation.

1234
01:12:53,720 --> 01:13:00,240
I learned, I think, more than anything about the power of knowing yourself more, to be able

1235
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:05,080
to speak better, you know, knowing what your limitations are, what remembering the encounters

1236
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:10,240
that you've had with different friends to give you feedback of, okay, this is what triggers

1237
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:14,160
me to be destructive in my communication, for example.

1238
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:18,880
And I think that was quite a, and I open up, you know, like just giving room for different

1239
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:21,000
possibilities to unravel.

1240
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,600
I would say, accepting back and saying, why am I feeling insecure?

1241
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,680
And you say, like, well, I'm hoping that taxi is the right way.

1242
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:32,240
Drive us just, don't try to disrespect you almost.

1243
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,840
Holding yourself back and actually resonating more with the impact that you want to create.

1244
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:40,880
So thank you so much for just giving us 9 just so that we can use.

1245
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,360
And everyone else, this was Thabani Mtsi.

1246
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:45,680
And thank you so much, sir.

1247
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:46,680
Thank you.

1248
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:47,680
Right.

1249
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:48,680
Right.

1250
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:51,680
Bye.