I'm Travis Bader, and this is the
Silvercore podcast.
Join me as I discuss matters related to
hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits with the
people in businesses that comprise the community.
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Today I'm joined by the host of the hunting dog
podcast, recurring guest on mediator, passionate
Upland game, hunter, dog handler, and all around
cool guy, Ron Boehme Ron I'm really excited
to be chatting with you on this hunting dog.
Silvercore swap cast.
Cool, cool.
Yeah, you wrote, and uh, you said one key word
to speak my interest.
You're thinking about getting the bird dog.
I am thinking about getting a bird dog.
Yes.
Why would you do something so stupid?
Honestly.
So I've, I've had dogs before previously.
I had a border Collie and smart as a whip, easy to
train how to train, doing everything I wanted.
But, uh, but not as a hunting dog, right.
The kids had kids come on the way.
And we realized we weren't giving the
dog the attention that it needed.
And we have two kids that needed our attention.
And I didn't feel that we're being
fair to the dog.
So, I mean, the kids would say, or dogs
living on a farm now.
Well, it actually was, we found that some
farmers who had some property who could take
care of the dog and give it the attention
I needed, and I was always of the mindset.
I'm not going to get myself another dog
until we got a large property and I want to
get a couple because they're pack animals.
They want the.
And recently out hunting.
I came to the very sudden realization.
I am tired of retrieving my own birds and I would
love to have a dog.
And this happened after about, I don't
know, three hours of trying to find a bird
that went down and just couldn't find it.
And finally had some other hunters come by and
they had dogs and they were able to help out.
So I said, time to get a dog texted the
wife, she's immediately looking at all these
different breeds.
And that's, we're kind of, we're kind of looking
at Munster Landers, but you probably have some
ideas on those, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I, what I was going to ask you, who was, you
would not be, you are so not alone in this world
of how to pick a breed because back in the day,
if it was kind of always, the guy met the guy that
he was hunting with and he got a dog from his
friend and now the wife and the kids always
come into the court.
And online and they start reading breed
descriptions, and you could read, I got
several books, I got an encyclopedia over there,
all the dog breeds.
I've got that great book that, uh, Craig Kaushik,
a follow a fellow Canadian friend of,
uh, or fellow Canadian of yours wrote a book.
And it breaks down every continental
breed that points in this particular bank.
And it gives you kind of an explanation and
he tells you the pros and cons, but you'll
fall in love with every dog you read on that,
like lower in there.
That's the thing.
Yeah.
So what I was getting at is there's so many
families to get involved with picking a dog.
And a minute you said your wife on the
inside, I'm going, you got, you know,
it's not just a dog.
It's going to be another kid of
some, some fashion, you know, agreed.
But the upside I tell everybody and
I probably filter.
Three or four calls a day.
And they ended up getting to be long
calls with people, looking for first dog.
And when I know someone's got a that they haven't
done it before, I literally asked them
two different questions.
One of them is always, are you married?
And they're like, yes.
Okay.
Do you have kids?
And they said, yeah, how old?
Uh, five and seven.
Okay.
You're not going to have a problem if
you raise that dog.
And you've got kids that you're, you know, 85%
happy with, you'll be able to raise a dog, but
it's just like, you've probably met somebody
with that first kid and they, they think
they're, they don't know what to do and
everything's an emergency and everything's this
and everything's that, um, the worry part
of being a parent, if you're not a worry
ward, parent, you've got a pretty good kid.
You're I don't care if the kid's three or 13.
If you did a pretty good job, you're going to do
a good job with your dog, whatever breed you get.
So there's a, there's a silver lining for still
silver lining for silver Corp.
Yeah.
Well, our kids are what, 14 and 12 right now.
And, uh, I don't know.
I think we're doing a good job with them.
I've got a good family unit partying about
getting this dog though.
I said, look at, everyone's gotta be
on the same page.
So we're buying some books on
training the dog.
And what is one of them?
The gentleman's hunting dog, I think
was a Mike Stewart.
And there's a, another book, a smaller one,
a lot of really good information that we're
going through right now.
But I said, I don't want to train at one thing.
And have you guys do something different?
We gotta be unified in our approach.
Yeah, well, that's, that's going to
be important.
Um, so what, what kind of birds up in your neck
of the woods would you be chasing forest grouse?
Mostly.
Are you in what part of.
So we're, I'm in the lower mainland area
and I'm fortunate enough where I live.
I mean, we've got some great waterfowl
hunting, so we've got great ducks and geese
I in the area where I'm at actually, they've
got a club that'll release pheasants, and
so we could do some pheasant hunting, uh,
and then you don't have to travel too far.
And we've got a lot of, uh, gross hunting and
all my gross hunting in the past has been okay.
Let's let's walk the roads and look out
for the guard gross and just try and keep,
keep my eyes open.
So having a dog will be a completely
different dynamic.
It will be.
And, you know, especially like the breed, you're
talking about the, the monster Lander
I've judged a lot of them over the years.
And one of the parts of the versatile hunting
dog test is, uh, a puppy needs to track a live.
So we disable this pheasant from being
able to fly with both wings and we released
it on the ground outside of the dog and we
basically shoot it away.
Like, go, go, go.
Right.
And in an ideal situation, you're in
maybe six inches of cover, like a hayfield
or something like that, or a Stubblefield
or something.
And ideally that bird runs into some
other cover, like a fence row or a
Woodlawn or something.
We set this up and I've said this probably 50
times on my podcast, but I haven't said it
to you or your listener.
Um, as judges, we, we, we cringe some time
when we're like, oh, is this a good spot?
Are we giving the dog the best we could give it?
Like the covers kind of sparse, it's kind
of just mostly mud or the covers too tall,
or, you know, we all.
We could judge the field search of a
dog because you're watching a dog run.
No problem, no big deal.
Right.
But the track is really important because
it's up to us to set up a good track.
We can, and this has happened dozens of times.
Let's say we get a couple of other dogs that
aren't, I'm not going to say what breed, they're
just not monster Landers.
Sure.
And the first couple, just that dog just didn't
inherit a lot of tracking or it use kind of a wild
search to track and the dog can still get some
qualifying points, you know, as long as he's
making forward progress.
But as judges were always like, oh, I
knew we should've found a different field.
And then third dog up is a small monster Lander
and the person puts the dog out on a track and it
looks like a bloodhound chasing a prisoner
right through the swamp.
You know, it just really just now there's the
exception to the rule, but I mean, the exception
is rare in the rural.
Strong months.
These have a hell of a tracking instinct, a hell
of a tracking instinct.
You know, that's good to
hear.
That's good to hear.
So that last bird you looked for forever.
Never.
I don't think that's going to happen.
Well, amen.
That's awesome.
So I guess the next question would be, so
you get, you get this as a pop and I think
we're, where is it?
We're looking at somewhere in the states.
There's a breeder out there, so we'll have
to fly in, grab it.
And when it's a, uh, a few months old, like
what age do you do?
You start their training at
well, trading kind of starts the day.
You get it home.
You'll hear people say that it really does
because dogs learn that they only can
learn by association.
So it's either they're G they got seven inherited
appointing dog has seven inherited traits.
Okay.
Obedience and understanding, and
this language is not one of them.
There's desire.
There's search there's nos, there's tracking
there's water, cooperation, those things
come in the package, but the training starts just
like with crate training.
Um, you know, I don't know with your border
Collie, if you create trained it for travel
and for the ho home, or did you let it become a
bed puppy and deal with a couple accidents in the
house back in the day?
No, no bed pups.
I've.
I was raised with having dogs as an outside only
dog, uh, our new dog that we'll be bringing
in, we'll have a crate inside the house.
And, um, yeah, I'm, I'm sort of torn between the
utility of a dog, as well as the fact that you're
saying, you know, the kids and the wife and
every, and it's becomes part of your family.
Right, right.
So that crate is like your, your pups.
Hmm.
So like when we have kids, they sleep in
the bassinet nearby, so mom can feed them.
And everyone's worried about the new kid.
I tell you, when you bring home a new puppy,
let's say let's hope it's not before eight weeks of
age, it should be okay.
I think 10 or 12 is well-proven to
be a better age to pick them up.
If it's a good kennel, that's really
developing their pups.
And honestly that keeps you from
having less house accidents at 12 weeks.
And it doesn't, they just have a more developed
bladder and food system.
But so when you bring that dog home, you
set that CR I tell people, set that crate
up by a door, closest door to your yard.
And when you put that puppy in, when you don't
have time to play with the puppy, which would
be outside, taking walks a little bit of house
with the kids, of course, they're going to hold
them and watch TV with them and all that stuff.
Sure.
But when you don't have time with
the, for the pop.
Put them in a crate and he's going to haul
a little bit and he's probably going to haul
all the first time you shut the door and you
go to bed, but what kid didn't cry the first time
you put them in his own crib, in his own room.
Right.
And what mother didn't tell their daughter,
don't you go in there?
Cause if you go in there
once
baby, that baby can only learn by association.
So you can't tell the baby it's okay.
I'll be back in the morning.
And when you wake up at three, I'm going
to nurse you, you can't resort baby.
You can't reason with a puppy.
So you put them in that crate and you never
let them out when he's barking or crying.
I mean, there's exceptions.
Like we've got to make sure that he's already
emptied his bladder, you know, and maybe maybe
made to the poop in the backyard or whatever,
or maybe he already pooped on your carpet.
Who knows?
You don't want to put them in there.
Yeah.
There's a chance that he really has to
go to the bathroom.
Other than that, even adult dogs can sleep
20 some hours a day when you're not doing
nothing, you know how regular house.
And, uh, so you get him used to that crate.
And that just starts that, that crate
training, like, no, it's not about me right now.
It's about, it's about now.
It's quiet time.
Now.
My mom used to, she'd been gone for a long
time, but she gets, she can it around now.
My mom was, you know, I was born in the
fifties, so my mom would go next door and have
cigarettes and coffee with the neighbor and
plop me in a, in a plate.
You know, back in the day I had four foot square
wooden playpens, right.
She says you were raised in a playpen
for like two years.
She goes, I didn't do anything with you.
Kids are easy.
Kids are easy, you know, give me a toy.
And I was fighting like a dog with a chew
toy, but I, I keep that with the dogs.
Like when you don't have the time, put it in
the kennel is not going to resent that once he
gets used to the kennel.
That's good to know.
So, so when you ask, when does this training start?
That's part of it.
The next training on that is in the beginning,
you, your kids, your wife are going to open
that crate door and he's going to come running
out like, ah, I'm here, you know, and of course
you've got to let them out to the door.
You always they'll always relieve themselves
after a nap, pretty much most of the time.
And, but after that's developed a little
bit, you take that door and you kind of, when
they come charge, not you snap it in their
face a little bit.
And he's going to keep banging.
This is a dog.
It's not a kid, so you're not going to get child
services after you.
Right.
And I always say, picture yourself, trying to get
out of, uh, uh let's.
Have you ever used a portajohn on a job site?
Okay.
Yeah.
Those doors unimportant.
Johns can be weird, right?
They can swing back and like you get your
hand caught in a once.
You're like, ah, no, I know part of John
Doerr needs to go all the way out because
it's spring loaded.
And if I'm not all the way out the door,
it's going to come back and hit me.
And for some reason, the porta John door's
grocer, then, you know, so the dog's gonna
think the same thing.
You, you, you, you give him a note.
Nope.
You close that door.
And then the minute he kind of is like,
should I come out or should I not come out?
You open that door a little bit and you get
a couple inches out and then you say, okay,
now he starts learning.
Okay.
Means.
Right.
Developed that over a few, a few weeks, right?
To the point where when you go to let
them out of that door, you're going to go.
Aye.
And then you're going to open that door.
That door is going to be open 180 degrees,
and he's going to be sitting in there.
She, and he's going to be like, say the
word, say the word.
Okay.
You know, you're going to go, okay, he's
going to come up.
Just like he did.
When you first got home, he let him
out happy puppy.
But he already learned that he's got to
wait a little bit.
Right?
So what that does is it establishes you as
making the rules for the dog and that's where so
many people go wrong.
Just those little things like that.
When you go to the door, once he's learned the
kennel door, you do the same thing at the house
store you, as you go out the door, you never let
the dog take the lead.
You say.
You know, don't worry about teaching
the dog to sit.
Uh, I, I won't ever go into that pointing dog.
Some people would never train them to sit, sits,
sits a default for a dog.
If they don't know what to do, they're
going to sit.
If you want to give it a name, give it a name.
But if you don't, I guarantee if you keep
opening a door and your dog is trying to
get out at some point, it's going to go like
this, I'll just set it.
So they're going to sit, right?
So then you start doing the house door
and he sees that house door goes open.
You get one step out under the threshold
and then say, okay.
And then he comes out with you, but
you take the lead.
So, so that training starts early on it.
That's just associate of training.
How to be a good puppy at home, you know?
Yeah.
That's it sit, stay thing.
I had a, with my last dog, I was,
I told them shit.
And then I said, stay in someone's.
Why are you telling them to say, like, if you
told them to sit doesn't that just mean sit.
If he gets up two seconds later, it's
not sitting anymore.
So do you teach state?
Yeah, I will.
I will enforce the duration of
the sit later on.
Okay.
Yeah.
But all I'm looking for early on is just
some compliance, just that he understands,
like I, and it gets it.
We, it would take forever to go through the whole
process, but that early teaching him to stop is
going to help you later because there's going to
be times when you need to make your teenage dog
six months, 10 months, year old, whatever you
want to call a teenager as a dog, you're going
to, you're going to be asking him to stop.
Whether it's walking on a leash and you got to
stop at a sidewalk or you're out in the field.
If you end up getting into some real bird,
dog training down the road later on, you're
going to want to steady this dog up to at least.
The word woe means stop when you're moving, but
if he understands stop and it comes from you
or the word wall, so most people use wall
in the Burt and the pointing dog world.
Right.
If you use the word wall early, when you
start training him later, let's say with
a little check court on or a leash and you say,
whoa, his brain goes right back to the kennel
in the house stories.
Like, I think that means I should stop.
Right.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's not hard to do.
It's just consistent.
Yup.
So I brought my border Collie many years ago,
brought them out to the local shotgun range and
we just kind of stayed in the parking lot, who far
away from the gunshots.
And I figured I'd try and slowly try and
introduce my dog to the sound of gunfire
right now, a border.
You're prime hunting dog at all, but I found
that every single time I put a long gun up
to my shoulder, my dog would come right beside
me, lean hard into me and start shaking.
So I probably did something wrong in
the introduction to firearms with this
dog at some point.
And I definitely don't want to repeat that with
a dedicated hunting dog.
How would you introduce them?
Well, there's, there's several ways to do it.
Um, probably the most one you're going to hear the
most you'll see on the internet and on YouTube
would be, um, get this dog to chase like a
pigeon or a, a pen raised bird that you can kind
of control the flight.
Pigeons, you don't control the flight of,
but pigeons never land back on the ground.
So you take a, you get a pigeon, you let it
fly the dogs and mid pursued he's he's.
He thinks he's going to catch it.
He can't, but the dog's running.
And then in the background back here,
you do some light, maybe blank gun, or if
you don't have a blank and you got to have
a friend, another 50 yards behind with, let's
say a four, 10 shotgun or a 22 rifle, and he
still keeps the barrel pointed the opposite
direction of the dog.
But now this dog is seeing a bird
as it's running.
And he's hearing a little something in his head,
but just in his eyes because of his instincts
where the border Collie doesn't have that chase.
The, I bet you, if you'd have had a sh.
And he was hurting and you were shooting
when he was young.
He probably be like, man, that's
the sound of sheep.
Yeah, you're probably right.
Right.
Um, the, the thing about gun clubs, I'm
telling you, a lot of people have done it.
And I cannot tell those people that didn't work
because they did it.
Right.
But what they also have is probably what I refer
to as a Bulletproof dog.
There's some dogs out that are just so not
going to be bothered by noise, that it
would be literally you'd have to work at
making them gun shy.
Right.
You almost have to take a, take a starting
pistol and wake them up for breakfast
with it in his ear.
Like, Hey, boom, Hey, wake up and eat.
So there's some dogs.
My first short hair, I didn't do
any gun training.
I took her hunting, but she was chasing a bird.
I shot the bird.
She associated the noise with the bird.
The noise was always good for.
Uh, when did you get your, for short hair?
Huh?
How old were you when he first got
your, your first?
Oh, I was thinking I was, well, I was in
my twenties when I got one, but when I actually
bought one, like with the purpose that I
was 30, 30, 2, 64.
So it might, my first purchase is what I
call a bred dog was probably 32 years ago.
Something like that now.
Okay.
Have you noticed a change in sort of training
tactics over the years?
Yeah, mostly because in the beginning
I didn't train it.
You know, I literally had one of the things
I mentioned to you about dogs are the
natural cooperation.
What that is like, I'm guessing
that your border.
Was pretty good running around all the time.
Right?
Didn't didn't run off and leave you for 300 yards.
He right.
That's bred into the border Collie.
And that's one of the reasons they're very
intelligent is they're very cooperative.
So cooperation is the teamwork.
The you don't, it's not trained.
It's the teamwork that the dog gives you.
So that border Collie probably had a good
amount of cooperation.
So my first dog had a lot of cooperation and
she literally, in her genetics, her searched
genetics were inherited from generations of
good hunting dogs.
So she searched at a pattern that something
in her brain said, that's about right.
I'll turn, I'll come back.
Well, that's about, you know, so I got
very lucky and then I bought a next dog which
had zero cooperation.
So, so somewhere in my mid thirties, I
said, I'm gonna have to learn how to train the
dog because this dog.
I don't.
I think I took a trip to Canada.
One time to go a sharp tail hunting, and I never
shot a dog bird over the other people did,
but I never shot a dog, a bird over my own dog.
He just doing his thing all day long.
Some somebody would see him on point.
He goes, Hey, Ron, Hasko's over here.
I'm pointing.
I'm like, God, shoot the bird farm.
I don't care.
Oh yeah.
Well what about the whole male female thing?
Is there any, is an old wives tale people
saying you got to get a female hunting dog or is
there any truth to that?
I don't think so.
I think one of the reasons if people are
pro male, it's probably because a lot of the
champions out there back in the day were male.
And the reason that is is because they
never go into a heat.
Right.
So you've got that when it comes to competition,
you've got that when it comes to everyday
hunting, you could get a heat cycle.
I just had one come up in North Dakota with a dog.
So I couldn't get her out with my mail.
And if another dog would have, you know,
it would have been a real, real catastrophe.
So, um, so some people will say one Hunt's
better than the other.
And some dogs I've been told this, some females
like guys better, some females like the mom
better, but that could also be some early
imprinting of this stuff.
We talk about, you know, they just they're like,
oh, there's my boss.
And they know the difference.
So there's, I bet you there's just so many
great stories about female hunting dogs as
there is male hunting dogs and you could
find it would be, uh, it would be as divided
as the United States is politically, right?
Yeah.
I hear ya.
Well, you just came back from a hunting trip.
While we're chatting last year driving.
Yeah.
Um, I went to Northwest North Dakota.
In fact, we went up so far Northwest that
one of my friend's phones, the text said
welcome to Canada.
I never, it didn't come up on my phone, but he
said, yeah, I'm getting some texts alert.
Like, you know, something probably from the
border, like some like welcome to Canada,
make sure you stay.
He's like, we're getting texts from Canada here.
So I didn't get that on my phone.
But, um, so we were up there, we did
some pheasant hunting fire up there.
We were chasing sharp tail grouse.
Uh, looking for Hungarian.
Partridges only found one Covey.
And we did a fair amount of duck hunting, which
is probably our bigger success in, but this trip
was all just a trip with my best friend since we
were in diapers and my neighbor and his boy.
And it was like no pressure.
There was no expectations on this trip and it
went down in history of my trips as well.
Yeah, top five trips I've ever taken.
So yeah.
Yeah.
You know, once you leave those expectations
behind, if the expectation I find
for me personally, if the expectation is the
outcome, like what, how many animals are
we going to harvest or are we going to
be successful or not?
None of those trips ever rank high with me,
if the expectation is, man, we're just going
to have a good time.
Inevitably we do.
And if we end up harvesting something,
that's just icing on the cake and yeah.
And, and that's, I don't know, that's one of
the things like in the silver Corp podcast,
I try and speak with, uh, find the people who
are inspirational and sort of groundbreaking
in their territory, who are passionate
about what they do.
And I try my best, a learn from them and B
share that passion with others and more and more
I'm finding that the most passionate and the people
who are having the most fun are the ones who.
Just truly enjoying the process.
And like, when I look at you, I watch you.
So you've been on a few episodes of mediator
there and you're showing Steve how you're making
your own lead shot.
And you got some nice shot guns
that you're using.
They're not always the latest greenest fanciest
thing, but they got some character to them.
I mean, that's one thing that I've really taken
away from your podcast from watching you is
that you are the type of person that truly knows
how to enjoy the process.
I
know I'm just about to open a beer right now.
Good
for you.
Good for you.
And that was this.
Yeah.
When, uh, when you said meet her.
Yeah, I was fortunate enough to be, uh, Steve
was one of my Stephen, his brothers, but Steve
specifically, and his brother, Danny, where
some of my earliest employees, he just
got out of high school here where he lived
and I ran into his mom and she said, my sons
are looking for work.
I'm like, I'm looking for.
So that's how we met.
And so I was fortunate enough to get asked when
his production budget was much smaller way back
in the day, he'd say, Hey, can you come out
to, you know, here and here and do an episode.
So, you know, he pay for my gas or whatever,
you know, but, so yeah, I was lucky enough
to do that with him.
And, and that, that was, uh, that's actually
the start of my podcast because Joe Rogan talked
him into doing one in our, one of our hunting
trips in Texas, that we filmed, he brought
out podcast equipment and I thought you
needed a studio, right.
I've listened to podcasts for about four
years at this point.
And I thought, I'm not going to find a studio.
And you know, I'm not good morning, five
minutes after 7, 7 0 5 work, you know?
And then when I saw we could sit down at
the kitchen table and drink beer, Mike, I'm
doing a podcast as soon as I get home sold.
So what was your podcast background, Travis?
I mean, because it's, it's a lot similar,
but, but like what made you start it?
What made you say?
So I've I started, I've got a training company,
silver core training, and we do among other
things, firearms training and hunter education and
outdoor safety printing and Canadian based.
And it's something that I love, but I've also
got a desire to always create and build things.
And I don't know if it's the ADHD in
me or what it is.
But I'm always looking at other things that I can
do to kind of occupy my mind and occupy my time.
And there was a growing trend that I
found myself sort of, uh, being surrounded
by in my industry.
And I don't know if it's the same in the
states, but in Canada.
I mean, like there, there is a social stigma
surrounding firearms.
There's a social stigma that surrounds hunting
and there's a lot of negativity as well.
And if, and I, and I found that I was seeing
a lot of that negativity, but in the same breath,
there's a lot of positivity and there's
a lot of great stories and it's, I dunno if it's
equal on both sides, but I thought, well, I want
to be able to change my vantage point to be able
to see the positivity, really that positivity.
And so I started the silver Corp podcast and
we're like, we're in the hunting or I don't
think they have a hunting category we're in the
wilderness section.
What's that.
Yeah.
So we're in that outdoor section on the, um,
on the, uh, the iTunes chart, but we talk about
everything under the sun.
Usually it starts with hunting or firearms, but
like we've had, uh, uh, last one, we just let
it was with a British special forces commando.
And he's talking about a selection process and,
and the rest I had the inventor of the invisible
cloak on the podcast.
I don't know if you've heard of this guy.
He is so smart.
And I thought, well, this is kind of camouflage
related, right?
This has got something to do with, uh, are you talk
about the Harry Potter?
Kind of like that, what this guy did.
Okay.
It's going to sound really fancy.
He took a, an array of lenticular lenses with
a, uh, special viscous compound in between them
to refract light in such a way that the person
behind it is not seen, but what's in behind
that person is seen.
And I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it.
So he brings us in, he brings it into the,
uh, into the studio that we have here.
His name is guy Kramer.
His grandfather invented the walkie talkie during,
uh, during the war.
And so lineage of really smart dudes.
And it's funny because we're having this podcast
and he keeps looking at his watch, right.
And this is one of my earlier podcasts.
I'm like, oh man, I must be boring him.
Right.
And he keeps looking at his watch and I'm
like, finally I said, look it, if he gotta
be somewhere I'm don't don't let me hold you up.
He's like, no, no, I'm really sorry.
This is, um, uh, I'm getting my
email notifications come through.
Uh, that was Fox news.
The other one was, I don't know, CNN
or something else.
Cause he just, uh, release the trademark
and patent on is this invisible cloak thing.
And you know what it is.
Have you ever taken a, uh, you know, the
stickers that you can look at, but you can
tilt it and it changes the, uh, whatever you
see on the sticker.
And it's like, as kids would play
with them, those are lenticular lenses.
And he basically took a couple of those things
and he put an oil between it and you can go online
and you can see all the, um, the videos of people.
Who've tried to copy it anyways.
Positive fellow.
Is that related to hunting and firearms?
No, but he's a pretty cool story or, I mean
like Colin Deller, he was attacked by a grizzly
bear and fought it off of this pocket knife.
I mean, that's not really, that's not
really hunting, but Hey, but it's a story.
Yeah.
That's how I started.
I just was in North Dakota.
We didn't really bring layout blinds or anything
for duck hunting.
We just thought we'd hide in cattails.
And some of the ponds did not have cat tails
and we would just kind of sit, it doesn't work
real good for a duck, you know, an invisible
cloak that you could just reflect, whatever else
is around you on that.
I bet you, we're going to see that at Sportsman's
warehouse someday.
I
think you will.
I think you will.
He tried to sell it to the military and he
says, this shouldn't be in civilian hands.
And he went around and, uh, he did the circuit,
but nobody really picked them up on it.
And if you look at the videos that he has
online, I mean, it's amazing what it does,
but it's also got a different application.
You can put it over top of solar panels and it,
I don't know, I don't know the exact number,
but like 10 times or 20 times the amount of
light will come through onto your solar panels.
So anyways,
I got to ask, what was it like?
So if he was in your studio and he pulled
this over him, would you just be kind of
seeing a broke up version of your studio?
Like
kind kind of, I actually, I took a picture and it
wasn't the best picture of him and I, and we're
holding this thing in front of us and you
can see the, sort of the, the frame of the
picture and behind us.
And, but we kind of disappear.
I mean, if you go on his website, you can see
all the videos in there.
They're optimal.
I mean, the things just disappear behind it,
but I guess that's a bit of a tangent, but
yeah, essentially the silver Corp podcast,
I don't monetize it.
I mean, I'm sure there's, there's
ancillary benefits to having the silver
coordinator out there, but I do it because
I love talking with people like yourself.
I love learning things and I want to surround
myself and others with the positive things
that are in both of our
realms.
Yeah.
I'm sure you get those emails that like, yep.
That's why I'm doing the podcast.
Right.
Somebody will write you from a guest and
you really feel like.
You know, philanthropic to one word that's
like for money, you really feel like, wow,
this guy would not have wrote me an email
if he didn't mean it.
And it's almost sometimes a little gushy, you know,
you're like, wow, I can't believe I got you to get
back into the hunting world and got you to buy
a dog or got you to like, in your case, like yeah.
You know, I used to shoot and I'm going to
shoot again or so yeah.
Sometimes that's all you need for
payment, you know?
And, uh, that's, it's fun.
It
is.
Yeah.
It is fun.
And, and really, I don't know, at the end
of the day, everyone's got to make a living.
Everyone's got to do something to retire and
have the nice things that you want to have, but
the real positive change that you can affect in
the community typically, isn't, it, it, isn't
something that comes from directly from your
job and it's something.
As a by-product of your passion, your endeavor
will probably end up generating revenue.
But if you, if you look at it from a revenue
standpoint, I think that's, it's a dead end.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, you you've what, 2012, I
think it was when you started your podcast.
No,
no, it was 2015.
I'm going to be in my, uh, I I've, I've
done it for almost seven years now.
So next year will be my eighth year
starting my eighth
year.
Did you find it hard to start or will
you just imagine, like you are now?
Well, I found it like, I want to do it and
like, who's going to be my first guest.
Right.
Got my oldest hunting buddy to come over here
and drink beer with me.
And we just started rehashing a trip
to South Dakota.
I'm like, I guess that's what it is.
But you mentioned something about
me and like making my own shells and.
I don't want to say I'm not calling
myself genuine, but I never change.
You can ask my wife.
I never changed.
I'm sure.
She'll agree.
Just like drinking a beer or smoking a cigar.
I'm like, no, I'm not going to not do that
because that's what I do.
And that just resonates with people.
Like, I mean, I say sarcastically, I'm trying
to bring smoking back.
I think he had a better, but that's because
when everybody smoked, it was just a better
country back then.
So maybe it was the country.
Cigars did not have anything to do with it,
but maybe we've banned this so bad that some
people that might be cool or like, God, if I could
just have a cigarette, that'd be great.
You know, I hate censorship.
You know, I agree again.
I know if you're sitting in a restaurant,
nobody wants to smell a cigarette coming
off the Ash tray.
But when I grew up, you S you smoked on planes.
Yeah.
Smoked in the last five rows.
Now at that age, I don't think I was smoking.
It didn't seem to bother me, but that's cause my
mom blew cigarette smoke into my baby blanket.
So I mean, it obviously didn't bother me.
Remind your
mom might as a new mom, but so yeah.
Be it and being real, like, like you said,
you're, you're just so passionate about what
you do that you want.
You're not trying to convert people.
You're just trying to celebrate the
passion kinda right.
Yeah.
By default you end up surrounding yourself
with more like-minded people who have that same
passion and same drive.
Yeah.
Like I think most podcasters, if they, I
don't know if they did a murder mystery or what.
It's kind of like, we all served a little
term together, figuring out how to do it.
You know, that first, that first
episode, when are we going to next week?
How did you pick a first guest for, for, uh, for
yours, for silver Corp?
Just like you.
I had a couple of friends and so when both
of them are retired, Vancouver city police,
and, and from the training background, I
look at it and I said, well, I figure every
single episode I put out should have some
educational components.
Like if I'm asking for somebody's time to listen
to me for X amount of time, what value am
I imparting to them?
And so I figured, well, it's got to have some
training components.
And so I'd kind of draft out all the different
things that we'd try and have, uh, covered,
or it's got to have some entertainment
value and it wasn't until, uh, sitting down
with, well, there's a couple, but, uh, I
don't know, uh, Brad Brooks from our galley.
I remember before doing the podcast with
them, just like with you, we have a little
bit of preamble, we talked back and forth.
He was like, you know, if you want to talk about
whatever technical things that I do with hunting.
Sure.
Yeah.
We can do it.
I mean, like they make the game bags and yeah,
we could talk about that, but honestly,
I'm more interested just to tell stories.
I want to see what you're about and I'd
love to be able to share some of my stories.
And I'm like, it's just like you're saying this,
this whole world of social media, that's been
so polished and everybody knows it's fake.
Right?
For the most part, you look at all this
policy, they want to see something real
and they want to be able to connect with,
with the people that they're listening to,
where they're watching.
And if they happen to be entertained
and educated in the process, even better,
it's a bonus.
It's a bonus, right?
Yeah.
I mean, I'll bring guests on that are not
usually entertaining, but very informal.
Um, and that's a podcast where I want
them to do a lot of the talking, right.
A habitat biologist, um, right.
We've had several of those on, and I'm kind
of like when I got them on and they're on a
roll about habitat and biology and pollinators,
I'm like, oh, right.
So then I feel like one of my own listeners.
Yeah.
Like that's why they liked this because I
just learned something.
They gotta like it, you know?
And then with, in my particular case, cause
I'm known for being such a, a drinker.
Well, I am, I mean, my dad said I drove a beer
truck in Chicago for two years when I was
20 and 21 years old.
I drove a paps blue ribbon, a tractor
trailer and delivered beer to stores.
Awesome.
You, you cannot imagine how much beer,
I think the other day, a buddy of mine.
Uh, best friends since I was, you know, like
I said, right around diapers, we don't
remember ourselves, but we were next
door neighbors and he goes, how much beer do
you think you drank?
And I'm like, I don't know.
So I got my calculator out and I
didn't drink early.
I wasn't like a 13 year old delinquent, you know,
like I didn't cigarette until I was old enough
to buy cigarettes.
Yeah.
But my mom smoked and she said, oh, you're smoking.
I'm like, well, yeah.
She goes, well, I certainly can't tell
you not to, you know, it came to beer drinking.
I was, I was probably, I was not like the
high school party kid.
You know, we were out trying to chase
bugs and flies and try to hunt and trap.
And even though we're in the city of Chicago,
but when it came to like drinking, when I
was able to say, get into someplace or go
to Wisconsin, where it was only 18, I took to
that, like a, like a, you know, a flight of shit.
And then I drove this beer truck.
And the sales, the job is called driver salesman.
It was a union.
It's a union.
I think it was, I think it was local
7 43 in Chicago.
I think it was.
And so my first day, I'm with this other
driver and I'm his helper, which means I
got to do all the work.
Of course, 12 packs on the Dolly, bring them
down the stairs, stock the sh you know, you
don't stock the shelves, but you, you make sure
the beers in the shelf where people can see it.
An old bill was over at the bar having a
short glass of beer.
And that's right after breakfast, because our
tender would pour him a, a shorty glass and
that he'd get, he'd get the bill made out.
And he'd say, you want a glass?
I'm like, I'm dying from work.
I mean, yeah, let me have a Bible.
Okay.
That would go on all day long, all day
long, five days a week.
And I'm not saying I have good friends of mine have
literally told me, Ryan.
I don't think I've ever seen you out of
control in your life.
I've seen you on stage.
Might've seen the lampshade once, you
know, but I have some and I drink very light.
I drink light beer, you know, I don't
drink content.
I don't drink alcohol.
Like what I call alcohol?
I don't drink wine.
I don't drink bourbon.
I'll sip on something once in a blue moon,
but I have some innate, maybe it's just because
of conditioning.
I've been pulled over three times for
suspicion of DUI.
It never, it never blew illegal.
Now.
I don't know how to explain that.
Some horse shoes, maybe.
I don't know, once you up
my ass, the one I got under the seat, I,
again, I was, I know that those times that I had
alcohol on my breath.
Yeah.
But I wasn't in a bar, you know, drinking,
but I've been on, I was on a hunting trip
once and I got pulled.
And of course you could smell it on my breath.
Right.
This cop made me do three times into this
straw and he's like, he's like, he was literally
like, I don't understand this thing and go like
this thing's broken
good genetics.
That goes, just goes back to, I, I always
am who I am, you know?
And I, I mean, I could tell from talking
to you the other day and you're like, kind
of guy we'd bump in.
If we sat down on a plane together, it's
not the guy you're not going to talk to.
It's the guy that's going to make the
whole flight go by and totally blink of an eye.
Yeah,
totally.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Sounds like a dream job.
I don't know why you left that one.
Yeah,
it was a good job.
It was a good job.
I, unfortunately, I don't know.
I forget what I think it was a Monday morning.
I took what was called a barrel.
I had to do a barrel run, so it's a
different truck.
It's a straight bed truck.
And I was starving.
I was probably out all day at a
barbecue or whatever.
Got up, more starving, hungry.
And I, I pulled into a McDonald's through and
thank God, there was a car under the canopy at
the drive-through window.
But so I stopped with my, the front end of this
old international PO you know, ma literally manual
steering box truck.
And I'm bright behind this car.
But what I didn't realize was that the sign
that said clearance up clear it's nine, six.
Yeah.
I was just thinking McDonald's.
So when I pulled up and stopped the box and
my truck was literally up against that sign,
I didn't know it.
And when that car pulled up, I let off the clutch.
And all the glass started breaking and coming
down under the hood.
No, I didn't take the canopy down or anything.
Yeah.
But, uh, it gave my boss some pause for
keeping me going.
I went back into construction,
but yeah.
So that must have been what you hired, uh,
Steve and his bros for was being construction.
Was
it?
Yeah.
Yes.
Even Danny and Matt.
Um, so yeah, I, I just jumped back into
construction and started my own crew, but I
mean, what is your background, military
or law enforcement or what's yours?
Cause I couldn't, I know on that podcast
you did with April Vokey and I'm a huge
fan of April Vokey.
You said she asked you a question.
It was like, well, you're kind of known as
the gun guy and you're like, no, I don't want
to be known as the gun.
What's your back.
So, yeah, my background aside from being in the
army cadet program as a, uh, as a teenager
and going through that, that's the closest to
military I've ever been.
Um, I've got family background in
law enforcement.
My father and grandfather were law enforcement.
I just was, uh, a bit of a delinquent in
school, in elementary school and high school.
And wasn't really fitting in and I did
like to blow things up.
And nowadays after nine 11, that's not something
that would wear well, but back in the day, it
was just, Hey, this is chemistry, or this is
engineering, or this is.
Actually one of the fellows, he was the
head of the police academy here at the
justice Institute in British Columbia.
And he says, travel, you know, why don't
you come on and take a few courses.
It might be right up your alley and, uh, their
firearms related courses.
So at 18 years old, I started packing a gun on
my hip and was working as an armor car guard.
And I thought, Hey, this'll, this'll
be a good step in the right direction
for, uh, for law enforcement or military.
I flew over actually to the UK because
I was going to join the British military.
Um, but I went through the process with
our local police department, Vancouver
police scored top of my intake on the written.
I came third on the physical because you
can actually see, uh, based on where you
place on everybody else.
And they said, well, Travis,
you're kinda young.
Come on back when he got a bit more experience and
I've always kind of been entrepreneurial minded.
I mean, I might.
Job.
I had, I was performing magic at kids' birthday
parties when I was in grade four grade five.
Right.
I mean like what, what can I do?
I can make some money.
And, and even before that, when I was
working for the armored car company, I was
welding up all their hand trucks for them
because I thought, well, geez, how can I make
a couple extra bucks?
And then I started doing their gun
smithing for them, went down to Springfield,
Massachusetts to the Smith and Western
factory and got myself trained up on their,
their wheel guns.
And of course, I guess Springfield's
move in now.
I think they're going to Tennessee or something.
So always had that sort of background,
that knowledge base.
And I decided, well, geez, maybe my life
experience will be, I'll start a business
and you know, most businesses fail.
And so if I go through that and I suck at it,
then I can show that life experience and go back
and try the policing.
I didn't suck.
It took off and I've, I've never looked back.
And then we do work with law enforcement,
for firearms, repair and maintenance.
Uh, we do work with like the armored car
industry do and use of force training.
And I do, I'm a subject matter expert with
the courts for both defense and crown
counsel for firearms and use of force and
weapons related things.
But that's not, I don't know.
That's just one aspect of, of what I do.
I wouldn't call you the, the construction guy.
I know that you can do it.
That is what I'm probably the best at you're.
Right,
right.
Yeah.
Well now you're.
Yeah.
Cause I assumed when I, when I talked to you and
I was watching you in April on your podcast,
I'm like, oh, he's a Navy seal or something, you
know, or, uh, or, uh, uh, uh, Royal Marines or so
I, I just assumed, right.
And I'm like, nah, he looks like he's about six
foot three and ripped, you know, my eyes, this
guy's going to tear, tear, someone's head off.
You know, you have a fight.
You're the fighting background.
Yeah.
I, so both non-professionally
and when I say non-professionally, I
got into a lot of fights when I was younger.
And then in a more organized perspective,
I got into.
Muy Thai kickboxing and jujitsu and Akido you.
Yeah.
And then our niece or niece was a kind of
a neat one, but you do jujitsu don't you?
Yeah.
There you go.
I, uh, see, I, I did not hear it.
I did not do any research on that, but
you know, like you said, when you meet
somebody, like there's something about him.
It's, if it's not military it's
martial arts.
And so I, uh, I got into, I took, uh, some
show to con class in high school at somebody
other school, but when I there's a little rabbit
hole, but when I got divorced, I was married
for a very short time to the very wrong person,
no kids, no fault.
But when I got divorced, I wanted
to go kick this other guy's ass, you know?
And then I was told that, well, he's a state police
officer and he protects the governor of Illinois.
Well, that's not going to be a good
guy to go against.
So now I got, I said, I'm going to get into March.
So I took Ken Paul and I was in that
for a long time.
I have a, you mentioned add and ADHD.
I've got some version of that.
Cause I can't, I got to reread and
reread, reread.
So learning all the cottages and techniques
took me a long time.
I earned a brown belt in that, um, fought
competitively, but not for money in amateur, you
know, like tournaments.
Right.
And I would do the forms.
I would do the weapons.
So when you said our niece, you know,
um, I would do, and then I would also
do the sparring or
Yeah.
So I did that and did that in Chicago for
a long time when I was still in Chicago.
Found schools up in Michigan and then with
having three daughters, it was always, there
was always a heavy bag in my life.
There was always a heavy bag.
Yes.
There was always a on the road go to, uh, I'd
go to a dojo and say, what's your, what's
your walking policy?
Can I walk in for a week?
And I would go take TaeKwonDo.
It was never a big fan of the, I wasn't
built for TaeKwonDo.
It's just, I'm not a Lakey, well stretched
guy, but I mean, and I would even
enter tournaments in other cities.
So like, I it's like so weird then when you
said jujitsu, listen to the damn Joe Rogan.
I started jujitsu at age 58.
Holy Crow.
Yeah, because of Joe Rogan because
of Joe Rogan.
Yup.
That's the power of the podcast, right?
Yep.
And that's why I started my podcast.
Cause he got Steve to start a podcast.
So that man has no idea how influential
he's been on me.
That's an.
Uh, jujitsu is by far it's the most, I've never
enjoyed a martial art as much as jujitsu because
it's so you can put a hundred percent into it.
And if you're careful not get hurt, you
know, like Muay Thai, that's some deadly
shit there poets a task for your conditioning.
Oh yeah.
But you can't show a guy a technique at
full strength just to show him the technique
involves breaking his face on your knee.
Yes.
You can get yourself, locked up, tied up,
choked out arm barred.
And you can tap that you had, that is close
to feeling is so I at age 60, no, 58, 9 68
61 took me a long time.
I only went a couple of days a week.
I earned my blue belt, which was like, yeah.
Good for you.
That's fantastic.
Yeah.
I don't even remember.
Are you still training
when COVID hit the school closed and
the school near me?
I did find a school last summer.
That's near me.
I walked into a couple of classes.
I liked the class and it's probably as soon as
hunting, season's over, I'm going to, I talked
to the professor there and I'm going to join
up and get back there a couple of days a week.
Cause it doesn't get your legs in shape for
hunting, but boy gets your, get your heart
going.
It's your heart going?
Like crazy.
Yeah.
Crazy.
Well, you know, I little bit of a segue
here, but a training.
So I've got the training background
training company.
That's what I do.
And I've always had a keen interest in online
training and I happened to know that, uh, you've
got some background in online training as well.
Don't you?
Well, now I do, uh, two years ago, I didn't.
Um, yeah, a friend of mine, who's a dog
trainer in this area in west Michigan.
He would come on my podcast and we
would do question and answer, uh, segments.
And they were always well received.
I'm sure.
You know, you get certain guests on and in the
beginning you always look at your download numbers.
Like, oh, people are listening.
I don't look at it anymore.
And, uh, I got to turn that ringer off.
I don't look at downloads anymore until I load up
an episode and it pops up there on my feed and it's
always pretty consistent.
Um, hang on, I gotta get that off.
And so, um, the guy that I used to bring on
Justin McGrail, he was a really good dog trainer.
And I tried to talk him into doing like
some YouTube clips and stuff like that.
Just let's show some people, some
of the stuff you do.
He's like he, and he is not a computer guy.
He's not a phone guys, much younger than
me, but you'd swear.
He was born in the 18 hundreds.
Yeah.
I think, yeah, they, the phone to him is just,
someone's got to call me, so I have to have
a phone, but that's all he wants it for.
Right.
If a tin can and a string of work, he'd
be happy with it.
So he looked at some YouTube videos.
He's like, no, no.
He said, I'm not, I am not putting myself out on
YouTube and sorry, Ron.
I enjoy doing the podcast with, you
know, I I've got a little rhythm going.
I, I enjoyed the questions he said,
and then one day were kicking something around
and it just turned into like, well, what if
we filmed what you do?
So it's not like the only way to train a dog.
It's just the way he trains his
dogs in the past.
He guides for like six weeks in Montana, six
weeks in, uh, Arizona.
Now on those trips, there's some non
hunting season time.
But anyway, Scott used to be on the
road 12 weeks a year.
Guiding wild bird hunts and Arizona and Montana.
So, I mean, he is as real as you can get when it
comes to wild bird, dog, and, and the training it
takes to make that dog.
So we started coming up with this, you know,
cockamamie idea that we're going to have an
online training school.
We didn't know what that meant, you know,
but in now a year and a half of filming and, uh,
eight months of editing, it's, it's out there.
It's called the Upland Institute.
It's based on all the dogs we use
are pointing dogs.
So, I mean, for the few listeners that you or
I would have that be like, okay, I know what
a German Shorthaired pointer and a Labrador
is a flushing dog, but there's a lot of same
stuff in those dogs.
Just one happens to flush a bird.
One happens to point.
So this course is tailor made for appointing.
But it also tailor made for, if you got a new
dog it's tailor made for like, what do I do with
this dog when it's young, when you asked early on,
how do I, you know, when does training start?
Well, it starts early and there's a lot of
little things that, you know, I've known this
guy for a long time.
I'm like, I didn't know you did that
with your puppy when he was that age.
Like just these little things.
And so we filmed it and then we filmed
it when they got older and we filmed.
And then we just went into, we went into
the weeds with it and we felt that we had
enough content to, you know, create, you
know, we had somebody create a website.
And so I had no background in online
training, but, you know, I kind of do now, but
like how, how did, how did you, I mean, did you
go at it like with your eyes closed, like we do
with podcasts or were you doing live training
and then turned it to.
So, yes and no.
So when we talk with the whole ADHD thing
and I've joked in other podcasts about it, so
I was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age.
I don't even know if I have ADHD, but it was
just seems like to be the common thing that people
would diagnosed with.
But I do know that I'm always looking
at new things and I'm always trying
to invent or create.
And, and on the training side, I did not do
well in school, which is really funny for
a guy who now owns a training company.
But I was able to take like from the cadet
side, the man management method of instruction and
all the, the military, uh, techniques for
providing training, whether it be theoretical
or practical training.
And I thought, man, they kind of got it dialed in.
They can take people from the all different
spectrums, from the lowest common denominator
to bright people, get them all on the same
page, get them trained up, get them proficient
and get them going.
So.
I looked at that.
And by around 2004, 2005, I was already certified
as a, uh, a master instructor within the
firearms training here.
That's a designation from our RCMP for, um, just
some really basic sort of safety training that
we do, but I'm able to train other trainers.
And I started having talks with the
different government officials about saying,
you guys got to put your stuff online.
You have to have some sort of consistency in
the, in the delivery and the approach and looking
at these benefits.
And, you know, it kind of fell on deaf
ears, despite all the different, uh, people
I was talking with and they're flying
people, uh, from back east over here.
And I thought, man, they're just pumping
me for information and they're gonna
go do it themselves.
So I started delving deeper and deeper into
the, into sort of the online training world and
there's pros and cons.
I mean, you can learn a lot in an in-person
course that you wouldn't get online
and vice versa.
Totally.
So how do we, how do we speak to those
pros in the online?
Because being a, uh, a small business owner,
uh, and having employees, w w our reach is only
so far, we've got the lower mainland, we've
got our locations.
You can only get so many people in a classroom,
and you can only have so many instructors, right.
And instructors will have a, um, a turnover rate.
How can we sort of systemize that?
So people can get the quality of information
and sort of without the downside of that
administrative side.
And that's where that's sort of where the online
training kind of came in.
And I actually, I took it from an approach.
I wanted to build a SAS or a software
as a service.
And I had, uh, at, at the end, I think
it was five different programmers, building
something for me.
And I had zero business building a SAS, and I
sunk a lot of money and time and energy into this
only to realize there's other ways we can.
We can skin this cat.
And so the online training has
been a passion.
And right now we hold the contract for provincial
hunter education training in British Columbia.
And every dollar that I have coming back in
from that goes back into new hunter recruitment,
hunter retention, getting people into the activity
that I, that I enjoy and hopefully try and
introduce them to some of the reasons for that
enjoyment we've tripled.
We've tripled our provinces, uh, take on,
uh, what they've been bringing in, which is
fantastic and massive new hunter retention
or recruitment and hunter retention.
So that's sort of a passion project and I'm
sure if I keep following that passion, at some
point, there will be a monetary reward at
the end, but that's not why I do it sort of
long-winded but I think that kind of touches
on why I got into it.
Did you, did you run into the.
The like, oh my God, we have to film this
in on-camera and is it like, oh, shit moment.
Like, you know, no wonder why I can
watch television.
There's a lot of stuff that goes on to make
that television show.
Right.
And a lot of footage just never get
seen by anybody.
You know,
our very first course that we put together
and put online and I put a press release
out on Newswire for it.
And we hired a fellow to do sort of the filming
and production of it.
And so I learned a lot about the process
of like scripting a storyboarding and kind
of what's involved.
I also learned holy Crow, some of these people
that get into this, I don't know, I'm using
air brackets for people that are listening, but
this Hollywood mentality or this Hollywood.
I am.
I never had somebody be able to push my buttons.
So either this guy could and holy Crow,
it was like, we would get somebody trained
up and I would find a appropriate male model
and female model or actor or actress for,
for different things.
And, and on the night before he would fire
them and he says, oh, I met somebody out
at the Siri sky train station and we're going
to give them the job.
And I mean, it was, it was all over the board.
And I, I was so frustrated by the end,
we have a final product.
It costs a lot more than I wanted that.
I went out and I purchased my own
audio equipment, my own video equipment.
And I figured if one man can do it,
another can do it.
I'm going to figure this out.
And we started proceeding with our,
our future courses from that perspective,
you know, and that's.
I'm sure that this was not a COVID thing.
It could be a COVID thing, you know, because
of everybody being able to go out and certainly
it's way more popular.
I mean, kids are going to school online, which that
was unheard of, you know?
I mean, I'm sure there was some college courses
that you could take online back in the day.
I always heard the commercials.
Yeah.
Um, but, but getting into that is it's,
it's almost like sometimes you're like,
you're so proud of it.
And the other part is like, well, why wouldn't
people just come to me and learn this well, but
then you could reach, like you said, you can
reach so many more people what you've done with
the numbers for, you know, the hunter state.
Like I know there's an online hunter safety
now I'm old enough that most places I don't
go, I go, I don't need a hunter safety card.
Right.
In fact, in fact, I remember I took my twin
daughters and my youngest daughter to Kansas.
So that would have been a long time ago.
They were just getting their driver's permit.
There were 15 and they're in their mid thirties.
So 15 plus years ago, and I had not hunted
Kansas previously went to South Dakota, North
Dakota, Texas, Oklahoma mountain, all over,
never hunted Kansas.
So I go and you know, there was,
there was computers.
Then you could look in that long ago, but
I went on there and it said, enter your
hunter safety number.
And it said, or check here if you're old
enough, like, well, of course I'm old enough.
Well, I already put my information
down up in the top.
I hit.
The button didn't say, of course I'm old
enough, but it was, and then it said little
red line come up.
You are not old enough.
I'm like, what
really?
I'm not
old enough.
You know, they didn't even have good
automatic shotguns.
When I started hunting.
Anyway, turns out I was like eight months
too young to just go to the state of
Kansas and then trust me to have firearms.
So I had to take a hunter safety course.
So, yeah.
And so my kids did it in high school, which
was great, you know, at Boulder state,
you know, we're in a rural area of Michigan
had boater safety was a hunter safety,
all kinds of things, you know, they talk.
And so I had to, I had to do a hunter
safety class when I was like in my forties.
Like I'm, I know more about guns than
you do, but, but it would have been not
really, not really.
It was pretty rudimentary.
Yeah.
Um, and the instructor that actually that I
know he's like probably shouldn't say it, but
I think statute of limitations ran out and
he goes, we're not need, we don't need to go in
the field for the field.
Right.
You've answered all the questions on the,
you know yeah, I did.
But I think that a hunter safety, I think that
that is so cool that that's out there for
the kids, because it's not going to teach you
how to shoot a bird, but it's going to drill that
one or two things into your head, you know?
And I drilled it into my kids.
It's that?
Where's that barrel point.
Where is that barrel pool?
And if.
That's it.
Yeah.
We told people, I said, you know, if you violate
all of the other safety principles, if your
fingers on the trigger, you didn't check to
see if it was loaded.
You trip, you fall equals bang, but at the
very least you control that muscle direction.
You've got no loss of life.
You have minimal property damage.
Your ears are ringing.
People are screaming at you, but that's the
fundamental of all of, all of that safety.
But I think for my, my personal standpoint, and
I'm, you know, I'm still learning, but for sort
of, let's say, talk about online hunter education.
I think I could do so much more than what
it currently does.
I mean, we live in such a litigious society that
everybody's now says, well, geez, like you
look at the ERT members.
Well, are you door kicker certified.
If you're not door kicker certified, you
can't get a good door.
And right.
Everyone figures, if you have a certificate
or some sort of.
Piece of paper over your head, then, then
you're going to be competent, proficient
in what you do.
Or maybe it's from the other side.
Now in an organization can say, Hey, we've
done our part, right?
We've done our due diligence.
Don't can come after us.
But what if they use hunter education in
a way to, um, to vote and inspire people
to get outside?
And what if it was put out in such a way that
maybe wasn't necessarily strictly hunter
education, but that could be a component of it.
Cause any course that you do about hunting hunter
education, it's not going to teach you how to hunt.
It'll teach you how to be safe.
I'll teach you how to be legal.
But what about the vast majority of people that
go to school that maybe just want to learn how to
hike could be, have some knowledge of the flora
and fauna around them or be safe in bear country.
And I think if it was maybe modularized and
put out in, in such a way that, uh, could
attract a much wider audience than the whole
conversation around hunting could be talking.
Maybe maybe talked about it in a different light.
I don't know.
Well, yeah, I, I, I, uh, I kinda, I envy the
kids that can do it and not envy them, but I'm
glad they do it, but it would be cool if that
class was just more than just what it was just
a little bit more like almost like a teaser
commercial for a movie.
Right.
So you're showing the passion.
Right, right.
You're you're cause you could, you know, you
remember going to school and the guy would put a
movie on it was health education, like totally.
You know, but, and I'm being obviously way
off the rails here.
If health education had two or three minutes of.
All right.
Let's say soft porn.
Not, not for two or three minutes of like,
oh, the kids would be paying attention.
Those students would be like, Ooh, I'm
going to be here.
And I'm going to be careful too.
You know?
So, you know, you're a hunter safety course
has to expand into like some hunting segments,
you know, some raid ducks dropping out of
the sky, the tailgate.
Yeah.
So everyone says, oh man, why can't you
teach whatever, right.
Oh, I wish we went to the range on this.
Like in the, in Canada, in order to get a
firearms license, you have to have some basic
safety training, you know, but the laws
and history and, and actions and safety
and, and all the rest.
And they say, oh man, we should have a, a
live fire portion.
And some countries do that.
Like Germany will have that.
And I say, well, you know, each one
of those would be a barrier to lawful
firearms ownership.
Um, there are important points that people
can know about.
But what if you instill a passion, some just
rudimentary fundamentals and instilled sort
of the drive to want to learn more.
And that's what we try and do with
our, our courses.
Cause I mean, we've got YouTube.
You can learn anything you want on YouTube
or through Google.
The issue is, is you've got to sort through
a lot of garbage to get there, right?
Where your course is really good.
This is a particularly curated course for
someone like it's curates all of this information.
It's not the only way to train your hunting
dog, but it's a proven method that works for
you and your friends and the people that, and I
think there's, that's where the value is in.
In online training, condensed, curated,
uh, content.
That'll get somebody where they need to
go in a quick way.
When you look at it from a certification
standpoint and checking boxes, or I got to sit
in front of my computer for X amount of time.
I mean, you're probably like me.
If I have to do an online course, I'm going
to go to the very end and do the test and see
what do I know and what don't I know, right?
Yeah.
Yup.
Yeah.
Just like we were in school,
right?
If you want to be somewhere else, I didn't
want to be in school.
Right?
Well, I'll leave it up to you to work on the,
uh, the better hunter trainer safety online
school, and you leave it up to me to work on
the, uh, our, our tagline is be a better trainer.
Oh,
I love it.
I'm going to, I'm going to sign up for your
course and I'm going to put links in the
podcast or both on the podcast and in YouTube.
So anyone else who wants to check it out can
appreciate it.
All right.
Well, is there anything else that we should
be chatting about?
No, I mean, nothing, unless we got into
like rabbit holes, but you know, no, I mean,
it was, it was good.
It was great to meet you.
I, I feel like we could go onto mat together.
I got, I got to go.
I still got, I still got a role in a G I
don't like no geek because I'm old.
I still need something to hang on to a car,
but I feel like if we ever bumped into each
other, you say, Hey, let's get on the mat and
let's roll, you know?
And there to me, like, you know, the jujitsu
world, that's kinda like the hunting world.
Like, there's like a weird brotherhood
totally is in general.
But jujitsu is like, oh my God, it is the,
it's the best thing I ever did in my life.
I just wish I'd have started earlier.
You know?
Um, well, I cannot tell people like, couldn't.
Th the last class I went to when you said that I
have, I, am I still in it while I was out of
it, completely for the co the big COVID part.
And I really missed going, and I'm in
worse shape now than, you know, because I
haven't done it, but I can get that back.
But when I went to this class at this school,
that's in my town now, cause I used to travel
to go to do this.
It was an hour away.
And, uh, which, you know, in Canada may not
be a long ways, but it was an office on the
road.
Come on.
That's just like going to, it's like
going to Montana, I'm going to go to Philly.
But on the second class I was there and I was,
I was really sucking some air pretty good.
You know, I was like, Hmm, I can still
remember how to defend myself, but I wasn't
getting very far.
And the, the professor, you know, he's very,
very nice guy and.
I can tell you says, Ryan, you're
gonna roll again.
Come on, get another partner.
I said, hang on a minute.
I literally being my chatty Cathy
onstage self.
I said, oh, hold on, everybody, hold on.
I said, could some of you kids bring
your dads tomorrow?
You bring your dads in here.
So I got someone near my decade to, but I that's,
it I'd say other than dogs, bird hunting and
people like jujitsu's number four, you know?
Awesome.
Well, I think, uh, I think we're going to
have to get into some rabbit holes maybe at
another time if you'll have me, but, uh, yeah.
We'll,
we'll go down the, we'll go down to my gun
stuff, your gun stuff, martial arts stuff.
Uh, we could touch on ADHD cause they
didn't diagnose me.
Cause I didn't sit still long enough
to be diagnosed.
And your other door, we can talk about the
Beretta that I sold.
Nice over, under like E L that a
sold for 800 bucks.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I think that'll be fun.
Let's make sure we do it once or twice a year.
It sounds
great, Ron.
Well, thanks very much.
This has been a lot of fun.
It's been a pleasure.
I made another new friend.