WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:03.030 --> 00:00:04.920 Warren Zena: The CRO Spotlight Podcast. 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:12.930 Hi, I'm Warren Zena, founder and c e o of the CRO Collective, and 00:00:12.935 --> 00:00:15.030 welcome to the CRO Spotlight Podcast. 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:20.340 This podcast is for Chief Revenue Officers, aspiring CROs and 00:00:20.340 --> 00:00:23.490 CEOs who are looking to hire or support a CRO to succeed. 00:00:24.980 --> 00:00:29.360 To join me and my expert guests as we debate, discuss and tackle today's 00:00:29.360 --> 00:00:32.509 complex revenue growth challenges, and provide practical insights 00:00:32.509 --> 00:00:33.920 to help CROs succeed in the role. 00:00:34.460 --> 00:00:36.320 We're really excited to have you with us now. 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:36.830 Let's get to it. 00:00:44.660 --> 00:00:45.420 Hey everyone. 00:00:45.620 --> 00:00:46.640 I'm real excited today. 00:00:47.060 --> 00:00:49.700 I know it's been a bit of time since, uh, we've had an episode. 00:00:50.850 --> 00:00:53.820 This is wait, the, it's worth the wait because, uh, I have, uh, 00:00:53.820 --> 00:00:55.769 Rosalyn Santa Elena with me today. 00:00:56.550 --> 00:01:00.269 And, um, everyone knows, I'm sure most people know who she is. 00:01:01.050 --> 00:01:04.110 Uh, you know, she's probably the foremost expert in the rev op space. 00:01:04.170 --> 00:01:07.830 Probably the, certainly the, the biggest voice, you know, the leading voice. 00:01:07.890 --> 00:01:11.070 Um, every time I speak to anybody, Mentioned rosalin 00:01:11.070 --> 00:01:12.090 as the person to speak to. 00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:16.680 Um, and the rev ops, uh, space is just blown up, you know, it's huge. 00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:19.560 And so there's so much energy and gravity going towards it. 00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:22.830 And I think there's also a lot of confusion about it too, and 00:01:22.835 --> 00:01:24.810 I thought it'd be a really good opportunity to talk about some stuff. 00:01:24.810 --> 00:01:26.790 I was a guest on Rosalyn's show, man. 00:01:26.820 --> 00:01:27.720 How long ago was that? 00:01:27.720 --> 00:01:28.560 It's a long time ago, right? 00:01:28.660 --> 00:01:31.320 Feels like, feels like it was last year, 20 years ago. 00:01:31.770 --> 00:01:32.970 Salespeople often 00:01:32.970 --> 00:01:33.690 Rosalyn Santa Elena: hate their cr. 00:01:34.105 --> 00:01:34.494 Why? 00:01:34.765 --> 00:01:39.685 Because they are hard to use, difficult to customize, and expensive to maintain. 00:01:39.715 --> 00:01:42.925 This means leads and opportunities don't get updated. 00:01:43.075 --> 00:01:46.285 Things get missed, and sales can suffer in. 00:01:46.285 --> 00:01:49.195 Insightly is the modern CRM that teams love. 00:01:49.405 --> 00:01:53.604 Easy to use, flexible enough to support your unique needs and 00:01:53.884 --> 00:01:55.554 scales with you as you grow. 00:01:55.735 --> 00:01:56.664 This helps you sell. 00:01:57.225 --> 00:02:02.505 Grow faster and build lasting customer relationships in Insightly is trusted 00:02:02.505 --> 00:02:04.815 by more than a million users worldwide. 00:02:05.145 --> 00:02:09.945 For more information, visit insightly.com/get. 00:02:09.945 --> 00:02:10.574 Insightly. 00:02:12.420 --> 00:02:13.920 Warren Zena: Rosalyn, welcome and thank you. 00:02:13.920 --> 00:02:14.490 I'm so glad. 00:02:14.490 --> 00:02:17.190 I know you're busy, so thanks for giving the time and um, I'm really 00:02:17.190 --> 00:02:18.210 looking forward to this conversation. 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:19.680 Rosalyn Santa Elena: No, thank you for having me. 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:21.150 I think this is a long time coming. 00:02:21.150 --> 00:02:25.290 I'm excited to be here and always, always a pleasure to chat with you, Warren. 00:02:25.295 --> 00:02:25.320 Oh, 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:25.950 Warren Zena: thanks. 00:02:25.955 --> 00:02:27.960 So a lot of new things going on in your world. 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:29.400 I want to hear you share with everybody. 00:02:29.460 --> 00:02:32.580 So one thing I would say is you've, uh, just recently kind of like 00:02:32.580 --> 00:02:35.880 launched your own business, which I know we talked about prior, and you 00:02:35.880 --> 00:02:38.760 also joined, created your community, the Rev Ops collective, which is. 00:02:39.605 --> 00:02:40.805 And, um, I'm a member. 00:02:40.805 --> 00:02:41.735 I'm really happy about that too. 00:02:42.425 --> 00:02:43.655 So tell us a bit about that. 00:02:43.685 --> 00:02:46.235 Like, I know that, you know, you've been doing the consulting thing for a while 00:02:46.235 --> 00:02:47.615 and you're working for some companies. 00:02:48.275 --> 00:02:51.335 Um, it'd be really interesting, I think, cuz a lot of people that are listening 00:02:51.335 --> 00:02:54.545 to this are entrepreneurs or they're thinking about being entrepreneurs. 00:02:54.545 --> 00:02:57.234 And you and I both have, you know, Ventured out to do these things. 00:02:57.954 --> 00:03:01.795 What was that process like, and how did you arrive at the point that you decided, 00:03:01.885 --> 00:03:05.995 you know, I'm gonna just do this finally, I'm not gonna work for anybody anymore. 00:03:06.095 --> 00:03:10.135 What, what was the sort of motivation and what drove you to make the 00:03:10.135 --> 00:03:11.364 decision and how's it been going? 00:03:11.484 --> 00:03:12.625 What's, what's been happening with it? 00:03:12.625 --> 00:03:12.984 Yeah. 00:03:12.984 --> 00:03:13.225 Yeah. 00:03:13.225 --> 00:03:13.885 Rosalyn Santa Elena: Thank you. 00:03:13.885 --> 00:03:17.535 Um, so, Yeah, as you were asking the question, I was thinking 00:03:17.535 --> 00:03:18.945 like, what drove me to this? 00:03:18.945 --> 00:03:20.145 Why am I doing this? 00:03:20.745 --> 00:03:25.455 Because honestly, why am I've never, yeah, I mean, honestly, I've never really 00:03:25.805 --> 00:03:29.385 envisioned myself as an entrepreneur or kind of going out on my own. 00:03:29.385 --> 00:03:33.255 I've always saw myself as a practitioner working for, you know, working for 00:03:33.255 --> 00:03:35.805 a company, whether it's a small company or a really big company, but 00:03:35.805 --> 00:03:37.635 working for a different organization. 00:03:37.965 --> 00:03:41.475 But I think that over the last, um, maybe four years or so, I've 00:03:41.475 --> 00:03:42.675 been spending a lot of time. 00:03:43.605 --> 00:03:47.406 Um, you know, advising for companies kind of on the side in addition to 00:03:47.411 --> 00:03:51.285 kind of the day job and really helping, you know, organizations figure out 00:03:51.285 --> 00:03:55.275 their go-to-market strategy, thinking about product roadmap and messaging 00:03:55.275 --> 00:03:59.234 and, and, you know, thinking about setting up revenue operations. 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:00.495 You know, why do they need it? 00:04:00.765 --> 00:04:03.704 And, sorry, my dog is very passionate about this topic too. 00:04:03.885 --> 00:04:04.125 Warren Zena: Yeah. 00:04:04.394 --> 00:04:05.685 We'll, we be interviewing your dog. 00:04:06.250 --> 00:04:08.049 We're gonna get the dog in on this soon. 00:04:08.350 --> 00:04:08.890 So, yeah. 00:04:08.890 --> 00:04:09.190 So, but 00:04:09.190 --> 00:04:11.590 Rosalyn Santa Elena: anyways, but I think, but I spent so much time advising 00:04:11.590 --> 00:04:15.040 companies really on the go-to-market strategy and on product roadmap and 00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:18.670 messaging, as well as, you know, how to build scale and grow revenue 00:04:18.670 --> 00:04:23.290 operations kind of on the side, in addition to doing sort of the day job. 00:04:23.380 --> 00:04:27.070 And then also been doing a lot of coaching and mentoring of rev ops professionals. 00:04:27.500 --> 00:04:31.910 So recently decided, as you mentioned, to really go out on my own and do more of 00:04:31.910 --> 00:04:36.860 that because I felt like I wasn't having enough time to dedicate, to be able to 00:04:36.860 --> 00:04:41.030 help all the organizations and all the people that I really wanted to help. 00:04:41.540 --> 00:04:42.890 And so by going kind of. 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:48.580 On my own and doing this full-time, I'm able to, you know, have the bandwidth 00:04:48.580 --> 00:04:53.140 really, and the time to meet with more organizations and really help more people. 00:04:53.350 --> 00:04:55.930 So, hey, if I can make a living off of it, great. 00:04:55.990 --> 00:04:56.560 But we'll see. 00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:57.460 That's still T B D. 00:04:58.310 --> 00:04:58.800 Yeah. 00:04:58.805 --> 00:05:01.360 But I think that, you know, it's been really interesting to do that. 00:05:01.365 --> 00:05:05.710 And then as you mentioned, I just launched the community by the Rev Op Collective, 00:05:05.710 --> 00:05:08.200 and really that's been sort of a passion. 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:12.810 Project for me as well because there's so many great communities 00:05:12.810 --> 00:05:14.940 out there, many of which I belong to. 00:05:14.940 --> 00:05:20.010 I've had, you know, a lot of, um, You know, effort put forth in terms of helping 00:05:20.010 --> 00:05:23.070 to build out the rev ops kind of space. 00:05:23.430 --> 00:05:26.580 But I always felt like in a lot of these communities, rev ops is 00:05:26.580 --> 00:05:30.660 still sort of, you know, kind of the, the, the stepchild, right? 00:05:30.660 --> 00:05:32.540 Kind of in a smaller corner of this. 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:36.650 Of a much bigger community, you know, primarily of revenue, right? 00:05:36.650 --> 00:05:39.800 Sales and marketing and cs, and it's almost like within the community, 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:44.930 similar to being in organizations where we are also a subset of the 00:05:44.930 --> 00:05:49.544 revenue team in a much smaller, um, A smaller group or function. 00:05:49.695 --> 00:05:54.465 So really wanted to build out a community that's truly focused on revenue, 00:05:54.465 --> 00:05:58.994 operations, growth, um, and really growth around those professionals, right? 00:05:58.994 --> 00:06:03.195 Helping people who are interested in operations or are pursuing, or 00:06:03.195 --> 00:06:10.005 already in a rev ops career to really navigate and, um, elevate themselves. 00:06:10.295 --> 00:06:14.675 In terms of their career and helping them to hit their personal and professional 00:06:14.675 --> 00:06:18.995 goals while building sort of this network of trusted advisors that they, 00:06:19.265 --> 00:06:23.705 they can, they can lean on and, you know, help and share with others. 00:06:23.825 --> 00:06:26.465 So that's kind of the gist of the community. 00:06:26.765 --> 00:06:30.630 Um, But in selfishly, it's a place, you know, as I've been telling people, 00:06:30.630 --> 00:06:34.890 it's a place for me to, you know, kind of dump, do a brain dump as well, and 00:06:34.890 --> 00:06:39.870 really share just kind of my experience and some of my ex my, my learnings over 00:06:39.870 --> 00:06:44.099 the last, you know, couple of decades in being in all of these different roles. 00:06:44.280 --> 00:06:45.960 Because right now I share a lot on LinkedIn. 00:06:45.960 --> 00:06:49.349 I do webinars and events and such, but having a place to really be 00:06:49.349 --> 00:06:52.590 almost like a repository to kind of share all of that content. 00:06:53.305 --> 00:06:57.355 You know, hugely, I think selfishly impactful for myself, and hopefully 00:06:57.355 --> 00:06:58.435 it'll help some other people. 00:06:58.525 --> 00:06:58.795 Yeah, 00:06:58.905 --> 00:06:59.905 Warren Zena: I, I get it. 00:06:59.995 --> 00:07:00.655 You know, I do. 00:07:00.655 --> 00:07:02.305 I I certainly can relate. 00:07:03.265 --> 00:07:04.015 Um, I mean, I think. 00:07:04.635 --> 00:07:07.094 You know, I look at what you're doing and I think it makes perfect sense. 00:07:07.155 --> 00:07:10.065 I know it's, you know, running a business is tough, you know, there's a lot of bells 00:07:10.065 --> 00:07:11.534 and whistles and stuff associated with it. 00:07:11.534 --> 00:07:13.575 It's, it's not an easy thing. 00:07:14.354 --> 00:07:16.304 Uh, it's a love, you know, thing. 00:07:16.304 --> 00:07:18.044 You do it cuz you just really wanna do it. 00:07:18.585 --> 00:07:18.765 You know? 00:07:18.765 --> 00:07:21.015 In my case, I think I've always been entrepreneurial, but I'm 00:07:21.015 --> 00:07:24.164 also unemployable, you know, so, you know, it's like I gotta be. 00:07:24.804 --> 00:07:26.385 So that all still never happened for me. 00:07:26.835 --> 00:07:29.385 But, you know, I've always had a business of my own always for, I 00:07:29.385 --> 00:07:33.005 don't know, it's gotta be 20 years now, so, Even when I worked for other 00:07:33.005 --> 00:07:34.745 companies, I still had my own thing. 00:07:34.745 --> 00:07:38.165 So, but in any event, I, I'm curious about something around this, right? 00:07:38.165 --> 00:07:39.005 So you mentioned a couple things. 00:07:39.005 --> 00:07:39.995 One is a community, right? 00:07:39.995 --> 00:07:43.805 So, you know, there's a bit of, what do you think about community fatigue, right? 00:07:43.810 --> 00:07:45.125 There's so many communities, right? 00:07:45.185 --> 00:07:47.255 I mean, how many communities can be a part of, and how many. 00:07:47.495 --> 00:07:50.435 Communities are people willing to pay for too, right? 00:07:50.435 --> 00:07:51.755 Particularly when there's some overlap. 00:07:51.845 --> 00:07:54.575 I mean, you look at like Rev Genius and Pavilion and these 00:07:54.575 --> 00:07:55.895 are all great platforms. 00:07:55.900 --> 00:07:57.905 I have nothing but you know, positive things to say about them. 00:07:58.325 --> 00:08:00.815 But there's a point at which, and even, you know, the growth forum, which 00:08:00.815 --> 00:08:04.205 we're both part of, you know, there's a lot of communities and you know 00:08:04.210 --> 00:08:05.795 there's costs associated with them. 00:08:06.305 --> 00:08:10.615 What are your thoughts on how to navigate this issue and how do 00:08:10.620 --> 00:08:13.835 you mitigate that problem with I think people almost feeling. 00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:16.710 They can't give the time that you want them to give to the 00:08:16.710 --> 00:08:20.190 community, which doesn't get the value from either you or them. 00:08:20.190 --> 00:08:22.170 What's the, I dunno, I'm just curious what you're thinking about it, cuz 00:08:22.170 --> 00:08:24.510 I'm thinking about it too, and, and I, and I'm, I'm just curious what 00:08:24.510 --> 00:08:24.900 Rosalyn Santa Elena: your thoughts are. 00:08:24.930 --> 00:08:26.730 Yeah, no, I 100% agree. 00:08:26.730 --> 00:08:29.190 I think there's so many communities out there. 00:08:29.550 --> 00:08:33.930 Um, and when folks ask me like, oh, what's the best community for me to join? 00:08:34.290 --> 00:08:37.409 Um, it's very similar to, you know, if you're looking for a new role 00:08:37.409 --> 00:08:40.530 or if you're thinking about a, you know, changing, pivoting your career. 00:08:40.534 --> 00:08:44.140 It's all about like, You know, what are you looking to do and 00:08:44.140 --> 00:08:45.580 what are you hoping to gain? 00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:46.120 Right? 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:49.960 And I think with all of these communities, um, that at least the ones that I belong 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:52.120 to, they all serve a different purpose. 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:56.950 And the reason I join them is because it serves that particular purpose. 00:08:57.190 --> 00:08:57.520 Right? 00:08:57.520 --> 00:09:00.400 Because, you know, there's some communities that are very, oh, 00:09:00.400 --> 00:09:04.420 very tactical, very technically focused around operations. 00:09:04.420 --> 00:09:06.550 There's ones that are more, you know, women in. 00:09:07.055 --> 00:09:07.775 Focused. 00:09:08.045 --> 00:09:10.535 You know, there's ones that are more kind of professional growth 00:09:10.535 --> 00:09:14.435 around overall revenue experience and some are just networking, right? 00:09:14.435 --> 00:09:16.925 It's kind of like, hey, get together and chat with other people. 00:09:17.224 --> 00:09:22.395 Um, But I think you have to be really intentional about what it is that 00:09:22.395 --> 00:09:26.085 you are hoping to gain from the community, and then looking for a 00:09:26.085 --> 00:09:27.915 community that meets those needs. 00:09:28.125 --> 00:09:30.225 Because to your point, you need to invest. 00:09:30.230 --> 00:09:31.155 Sometimes it's money. 00:09:31.155 --> 00:09:33.315 A lot of these communities are free to join. 00:09:33.645 --> 00:09:37.395 Um, but sometimes there's funds involved, you know, membership dues, but it's 00:09:37.665 --> 00:09:40.395 the time that you dedicate because 00:09:40.635 --> 00:09:41.235 Warren Zena: I, I think that. 00:09:41.590 --> 00:09:43.000 It's, it's really the time. 00:09:43.030 --> 00:09:43.090 Yeah. 00:09:43.090 --> 00:09:46.780 Because if I, if I'm paying 50 bucks a month or whatever month, if I'm in it 00:09:46.780 --> 00:09:49.630 a lot and I'm getting value out of it, I probably won't even see that money. 00:09:49.630 --> 00:09:52.060 But, you know, you make a good point. 00:09:52.090 --> 00:09:56.080 I, I wanna say it, I think is the way, way through this, cuz I think there is 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:02.290 community fatigue and I, I think the way to navigate, you said it so well, it's 00:10:02.290 --> 00:10:05.020 all about specificity and niche, right? 00:10:05.020 --> 00:10:05.790 So mm-hmm. 00:10:05.970 --> 00:10:10.570 You know, if you have general communities, if I may say a sales c. 00:10:11.400 --> 00:10:12.660 That's a big umbrella. 00:10:12.689 --> 00:10:16.349 That's a lot of things fit under that, you know, whereas if it was like, maybe 00:10:16.355 --> 00:10:21.569 it's just telephone sales, you know, or you know, s d r group, you know, 00:10:21.569 --> 00:10:26.610 that's very specific and you know, I think that if I'm, like you advising 00:10:26.610 --> 00:10:30.120 people in the marketplace how to think about a community, it's if fine 00:10:30.125 --> 00:10:32.550 communities that are as specific as. 00:10:33.675 --> 00:10:36.615 So that you get the most value based on what you're looking for. 00:10:36.615 --> 00:10:40.454 And I think what you're doing, and you know myself as well, we're lucky in 00:10:40.454 --> 00:10:42.765 that we've picked very specific things. 00:10:43.349 --> 00:10:47.040 Like rev ops is a disciplinary, it's a lot of specificity to it. 00:10:47.219 --> 00:10:49.530 And then it's also, which I want to ask you about the 00:10:49.930 --> 00:10:50.790 approach you're taking, right? 00:10:50.790 --> 00:10:54.599 So you mentioned things like technical or tactical, like how would you describe 00:10:54.599 --> 00:10:57.579 the way you're gonna approach Rev op as opposed to like, let's say, any 00:10:57.810 --> 00:10:59.280 other option that might be out there? 00:10:59.280 --> 00:11:02.250 What, what do you think your vision is for how your particular 00:11:02.250 --> 00:11:03.510 platform is gonna focus? 00:11:03.569 --> 00:11:04.020 Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yeah. 00:11:04.050 --> 00:11:04.349 Yeah. 00:11:04.349 --> 00:11:05.280 That's a great question. 00:11:05.280 --> 00:11:08.969 And I think that because we are very, I'm very focused on. 00:11:09.445 --> 00:11:12.205 Up-leveling the rev ops professional, right? 00:11:12.205 --> 00:11:16.705 And so that means very different things for different rev ops people, right? 00:11:16.705 --> 00:11:19.735 Depending on where they're at in terms of their career. 00:11:19.735 --> 00:11:24.115 They could be a year or two in, they could have just pivoted into revenue operations. 00:11:24.295 --> 00:11:28.105 They could be, you know, a seasoned veteran who has, you know, 20 years 00:11:28.105 --> 00:11:31.525 experience, 10 years experience, and maybe has done a lot more. 00:11:31.935 --> 00:11:36.075 And I think the ultimate goal is that wherever you are in kind of size 00:11:36.075 --> 00:11:40.455 and stage of co of your career and where you're at in terms of years of 00:11:40.455 --> 00:11:43.935 experience, you still wanna learn, right? 00:11:43.985 --> 00:11:44.105 Yeah. 00:11:44.105 --> 00:11:46.665 And you still wanna grow, but how do you get there? 00:11:46.785 --> 00:11:47.085 Right? 00:11:47.085 --> 00:11:51.405 And I think that's where my primary focus is around up-leveling the people. 00:11:51.855 --> 00:11:57.195 And that means through content, through, you know, learning, through meetings 00:11:57.195 --> 00:12:04.080 and get togethers and, um, Uh, different types of events around learning, right? 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:07.110 So we'll have fireside chats and monthly meetups on different topics, 00:12:07.110 --> 00:12:11.880 but all relevant to a day in the life of a rev ops professional, right? 00:12:11.880 --> 00:12:16.770 Because there's a lot of events that you can join around social selling, right? 00:12:16.775 --> 00:12:19.710 Or around different things around brand, you know, marketing 00:12:19.710 --> 00:12:20.880 and how to do your website. 00:12:20.880 --> 00:12:23.250 And there's just so no shortage of topics. 00:12:23.685 --> 00:12:26.625 Around the business, but very specific to operations. 00:12:26.625 --> 00:12:31.155 Like what does a Rev ops person care about when it comes to sales? 00:12:31.155 --> 00:12:33.165 You know, like you mentioned SDRs, for example. 00:12:33.170 --> 00:12:34.725 You might be in an SD R community. 00:12:34.725 --> 00:12:34.965 Mm-hmm. 00:12:35.050 --> 00:12:37.365 But from a rev op perspective, what do we care about? 00:12:37.455 --> 00:12:39.915 We care about enabling the SD R, right? 00:12:39.920 --> 00:12:41.385 The sales engagement platform. 00:12:41.385 --> 00:12:42.465 What is that messaging? 00:12:42.465 --> 00:12:43.965 How do we drive adoption? 00:12:44.205 --> 00:12:45.945 You know, all of these different questions. 00:12:46.755 --> 00:12:50.265 I think from an ops perspective, and again from a rev ops perspective, there's 00:12:50.265 --> 00:12:52.314 no shortage of topics to cover, right? 00:12:52.454 --> 00:12:58.125 The, the sure, the how broad our roles are and how deep across the funnel is, 00:12:58.635 --> 00:13:02.925 you know, lends itself to being very challenging in a very positive and. 00:13:04.470 --> 00:13:06.930 Not negative, but very challenging way. 00:13:07.199 --> 00:13:07.590 Right? 00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:09.199 It can be very overwhelming. 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:12.900 And so in this community, we're really focused on things that are 00:13:12.900 --> 00:13:15.030 top of mind for ops professionals. 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:19.380 You know, how to navigate their day-to-day challenges, but also how do they 00:13:19.380 --> 00:13:21.400 get to where they need to go, right? 00:13:21.510 --> 00:13:24.030 In terms of kind of short-term and long term goals. 00:13:24.300 --> 00:13:27.090 And those goals are gonna be different for everyone, which means that 00:13:27.150 --> 00:13:32.160 there's got to be different flavors of that learning so members can join. 00:13:32.595 --> 00:13:36.435 Um, different types of initiatives that make sense for them. 00:13:37.005 --> 00:13:40.305 Um, and I think a lot of, I'm also seeing a lot of more senior level 00:13:40.305 --> 00:13:42.255 folks who wanna give back, right. 00:13:42.255 --> 00:13:45.735 And they wanna be part of a community where they can share their learnings 00:13:45.735 --> 00:13:49.675 and be able to mentor others that are kind of up and coming as well as mm-hmm. 00:13:49.760 --> 00:13:51.525 Establish themselves as thought leaders. 00:13:51.645 --> 00:13:57.135 So there's a lot of different, um, avenues I think for, um, really helping to. 00:13:58.089 --> 00:14:02.864 Um, accelerate your career and accelerate your kind of positioning in 00:14:02.864 --> 00:14:07.064 the market, depending on what those, uh, ideal outcomes are going to be. 00:14:07.125 --> 00:14:07.334 Yep. 00:14:07.995 --> 00:14:08.354 Warren Zena: Got it. 00:14:08.535 --> 00:14:09.135 That's really great. 00:14:09.704 --> 00:14:12.915 So we have, you know, very similar perspectives on things within our, 00:14:12.915 --> 00:14:16.635 with, within our own respective swim lanes, so, not surprisingly 00:14:16.635 --> 00:14:18.224 so, so I, I, let's switch gears. 00:14:18.224 --> 00:14:20.114 I wanna ask you something you and I talked about and that. 00:14:21.495 --> 00:14:24.855 So, uh, I'll just give you the anecdote like I'm, I'm very close 00:14:24.855 --> 00:14:27.315 with a bunch of chief revenue officers and other people whom are sort 00:14:27.315 --> 00:14:28.545 of thought leaders in that space. 00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:32.891 You know, there was a article, I think it was in LinkedIn, it was like a 00:14:32.896 --> 00:14:34.950 couple weeks ago, maybe a month ago, that was basically talking about how 00:14:34.950 --> 00:14:38.130 the Rev Ops role is now the number one like role available, the head of 00:14:38.130 --> 00:14:39.030 Rosalyn Santa Elena: revenue operations. 00:14:39.035 --> 00:14:39.290 Warren Zena: Great news. 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:42.840 It it, it's good news and it's all great and I, but I was so happy to hear 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:44.520 it cause I think it makes sense to me. 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:49.650 But I also thought about the way that the article was utilized 00:14:49.650 --> 00:14:52.380 by various organizations and the way it was repurposed. 00:14:52.380 --> 00:14:53.760 Like a lot of this happens, you know, like if. 00:14:54.795 --> 00:14:58.605 If I'm a, a rev ops software developer, let's say for example, 00:14:58.605 --> 00:15:00.975 and I see an article like that, it makes sense that I'm gonna tout that 00:15:00.975 --> 00:15:02.385 article as being, you know, someone. 00:15:02.390 --> 00:15:02.595 Right. 00:15:03.105 --> 00:15:05.655 And a lot of the articles, not a lot, I won't say a lot, but a 00:15:05.655 --> 00:15:09.885 few of them in particular seem to sort of equate the Rev ops role as 00:15:09.890 --> 00:15:12.155 being a chief revenue officer role. 00:15:12.155 --> 00:15:12.515 Mm-hmm. 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:12.885 Right. 00:15:13.155 --> 00:15:16.485 And this is like a really interesting area where these two sort of disciplines 00:15:16.485 --> 00:15:20.145 sort of, I wouldn't say they both exist together cooperatively and probably 00:15:20.145 --> 00:15:21.715 necessarily like a, almost like a. 00:15:22.040 --> 00:15:23.270 Ying and yang is sort of thing. 00:15:23.330 --> 00:15:23.420 Mm-hmm. 00:15:23.660 --> 00:15:26.720 There's also some degree of like, where do you see the role going? 00:15:26.810 --> 00:15:30.380 You know, like, cause the, in my perspective, we've talked about this a 00:15:30.380 --> 00:15:34.550 lot, you and I, we'd continue to, is, you know, I have a worldview of, of 00:15:34.550 --> 00:15:38.240 a, of a revenue operation being led by a executive leader, the chief revenue 00:15:38.245 --> 00:15:42.200 officer, who has oversight over the entire revenue function, which is sales, 00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:43.580 marketing, customer success, et cetera. 00:15:43.910 --> 00:15:47.210 And is it necessary for that person to have a really smart rev op. 00:15:47.805 --> 00:15:51.495 Professional within that organization to help keep the intelligence and the 00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:54.735 data and all the functions and systems working in a way that makes everything 00:15:54.735 --> 00:16:00.405 work together in a data-driven and, you know, uh, uh, call aligned manner, right? 00:16:00.435 --> 00:16:00.525 Mm-hmm. 00:16:00.855 --> 00:16:05.775 So the question I ask my participants in my course all the time is if, 00:16:05.805 --> 00:16:07.935 uh, you were interviewing for a Chief Revenue Officer role. 00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:11.790 And you're interviewing a sales leader, a marketing leader, a customer 00:16:11.790 --> 00:16:14.430 success leader, or a rev ops leader, which one would you think would you 00:16:14.430 --> 00:16:16.260 be more likely to hire as a C R O? 00:16:16.260 --> 00:16:20.010 And it's sort of a trick question, but I'm curious what your thoughts are in terms of 00:16:20.010 --> 00:16:22.920 the way the role is evolving, what you see the future of the role, particularly as it 00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:27.870 pertains to running revenue teams and how that's being like played out right now in 00:16:27.870 --> 00:16:29.070 the world, or what the perception's like. 00:16:29.370 --> 00:16:29.880 Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yeah. 00:16:29.940 --> 00:16:30.090 Yeah. 00:16:30.090 --> 00:16:31.020 That's a great question. 00:16:31.020 --> 00:16:34.180 And I did see that article as well, and I think you. 00:16:35.145 --> 00:16:39.525 It was a LinkedIn, kind of the fastest growing roles, right, for 2023. 00:16:39.525 --> 00:16:40.045 That's right. 00:16:40.045 --> 00:16:42.795 And head of Revenue Operations was sort of that first title. 00:16:43.125 --> 00:16:46.005 Um, and it was interesting because I said, oh, well that's great. 00:16:46.005 --> 00:16:47.205 That's no surprise. 00:16:47.205 --> 00:16:50.685 But when you read the article it says, oh, also often called Chief 00:16:50.685 --> 00:16:53.745 Revenue Officer or called, you know, some of these other titles. 00:16:53.745 --> 00:16:54.525 And I'm like, that's right. 00:16:54.525 --> 00:16:54.605 It was. 00:16:54.815 --> 00:16:55.865 Warren Zena: Often call that kind. 00:16:56.035 --> 00:16:57.095 Rosalyn Santa Elena: And I was like, exactly. 00:16:57.095 --> 00:16:58.015 A little annoyed. 00:16:58.165 --> 00:17:00.125 I was like, it, it really kind of, yeah. 00:17:00.125 --> 00:17:04.205 It took away a lot of that credibility of revenue operations, kind of that 00:17:04.210 --> 00:17:08.345 title being number one, because now it led me to think about data quality. 00:17:08.345 --> 00:17:08.555 Right. 00:17:08.555 --> 00:17:10.265 Immediately my Ops Brainin goes to that. 00:17:10.265 --> 00:17:10.355 Sure. 00:17:10.385 --> 00:17:14.825 And says, are they actually, um, counting this as number one because 00:17:14.825 --> 00:17:17.525 they're including all the chief revenue officer titles, which has 00:17:17.525 --> 00:17:20.915 also, you know, hugely, you know, increased in, it's growing as well. 00:17:21.820 --> 00:17:22.520 Question about that For sure. 00:17:22.520 --> 00:17:23.090 Exactly. 00:17:23.090 --> 00:17:25.760 And so then I'm thinking, okay, well that makes sense why it's number one then 00:17:25.760 --> 00:17:29.750 because they're including things that I probably you and I both would not include. 00:17:29.990 --> 00:17:30.200 Right? 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:32.420 Because I certainly would never include a chief revenue 00:17:32.425 --> 00:17:34.220 officer as a head of rev ops. 00:17:34.220 --> 00:17:36.320 I mean, those are two totally different roles. 00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:37.310 Um, yep. 00:17:37.995 --> 00:17:41.790 But then what, what was, um, what was very positive in the article though? 00:17:41.790 --> 00:17:43.080 There were a number of other roles. 00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:46.440 I think there were five or six other roles that were actually roles that 00:17:46.445 --> 00:17:48.570 belong as part of a rev op function. 00:17:48.780 --> 00:17:52.170 There was like a deals desk manager, I think there was, um, you know, 00:17:52.170 --> 00:17:55.260 an enablement function, you know, enablement manager and some type 00:17:55.260 --> 00:17:56.790 of head of enablement type of role. 00:17:56.790 --> 00:17:57.570 I see. 00:17:57.570 --> 00:17:57.630 They 00:17:57.870 --> 00:18:00.690 Warren Zena: were like putting a bunch of other roles underneath the rev ops 00:18:00.690 --> 00:18:02.400 umbrella, so to speak, in a way, right? 00:18:02.510 --> 00:18:02.940 Uh uh, no. 00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:04.050 Rosalyn Santa Elena: So actually they were on. 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:05.430 10 list. 00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:07.740 There were other roles that were also fastest growing. 00:18:07.890 --> 00:18:07.920 Okay. 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:09.930 But I'm like, oh, these fit into the ops. 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.270 So I was more focused, a little bit more on that. 00:18:12.270 --> 00:18:15.930 But I did see a lot of, similar to you, a lot of companies saying, oh, head 00:18:15.930 --> 00:18:19.110 of rev ops, you know, and I, I think there was a lot of debate about that. 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.620 And you know, my perspective is that a cro, r o is a very, very 00:18:22.800 --> 00:18:27.060 different role from the head of revenue operations or a VP of Rev ops. 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:27.510 Right. 00:18:27.510 --> 00:18:30.180 I look at the VP of Rev Ops as that, right. 00:18:30.995 --> 00:18:36.965 You know, chief of staff person that helps partner with the chief revenue officer. 00:18:37.175 --> 00:18:41.555 If I think about, um, even the skillset and sort of the mindset of 00:18:41.555 --> 00:18:46.025 an operations person around running, you know, processes, technology, 00:18:46.025 --> 00:18:47.975 data, insights, enablement, right? 00:18:47.980 --> 00:18:51.785 And kind of the, and keeping those people, that people aspect as well. 00:18:52.085 --> 00:18:55.625 I really think about them as running that infrastructure the day-to-day. 00:18:56.294 --> 00:19:00.225 Providing the partnership and thought leadership to the C R O. 00:19:00.425 --> 00:19:00.665 Yep. 00:19:00.764 --> 00:19:05.024 And then the C R O is then can go focus in on longer term strategy 00:19:05.054 --> 00:19:09.855 working with the c e O on kind of what's, what's to come on the revenue 00:19:09.860 --> 00:19:11.925 side and out meeting customers. 00:19:12.044 --> 00:19:12.345 Right. 00:19:12.350 --> 00:19:15.524 Being in front of clients and customers and out there running 00:19:15.584 --> 00:19:17.905 the overall revenue engine and. 00:19:18.860 --> 00:19:21.780 I think people start to confuse that thinking that, oh, uh, 00:19:21.870 --> 00:19:25.620 head of rev ops, you know, can it be a path to a cro o Sure. 00:19:25.620 --> 00:19:30.030 If they want to be in sales and in marketing and, and doing, you know, the, 00:19:30.090 --> 00:19:35.190 the client facing work and being able to carry a bag and close deals, right. 00:19:35.190 --> 00:19:39.960 And be able to, you know, work with customers on retention and keeping 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:41.910 them happy and driving that value. 00:19:43.125 --> 00:19:43.945 It's a different role. 00:19:44.065 --> 00:19:46.795 I think it's a different, um, sometimes a different skillset. 00:19:47.125 --> 00:19:50.785 But from a rev ops perspective, when folks ask me, you know, what's next? 00:19:50.845 --> 00:19:51.085 Right? 00:19:51.085 --> 00:19:54.595 Okay, I'm a head of rev ops or a VP of Rev op, what should I do next? 00:19:54.655 --> 00:19:56.275 And I think there's different paths, right? 00:19:56.275 --> 00:19:58.705 And again, it, going back to even that community answer, 00:19:58.705 --> 00:19:59.685 it depends on what it is. 00:20:00.254 --> 00:20:04.635 What you're interested in, where you're strong and what's your ultimate goal? 00:20:05.025 --> 00:20:10.095 Because from a rev ops perspective, you could move into a COO role. 00:20:10.245 --> 00:20:12.165 You maybe could move into a CR role role. 00:20:12.165 --> 00:20:14.835 Maybe you're really marketing focused and you wanna be more of ahead 00:20:14.835 --> 00:20:19.305 of marketing or customer success, or even in a finance role, right? 00:20:19.305 --> 00:20:21.555 I've seen folks move over there or maybe. 00:20:22.020 --> 00:20:24.330 System and technically focused. 00:20:24.330 --> 00:20:28.139 So they move, move over more into analytics or, you know, IT 00:20:28.290 --> 00:20:30.900 role or even business ops, right? 00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:35.520 There's tons of different opportunities, I think because there's, you come in, 00:20:35.639 --> 00:20:39.450 the entry point into revenue operations is gonna be very different for everyone. 00:20:39.510 --> 00:20:39.629 Yep. 00:20:39.870 --> 00:20:43.050 And then so where you go from there can also be very different. 00:20:43.139 --> 00:20:43.560 Um, agree. 00:20:43.590 --> 00:20:44.280 But does it not? 00:20:44.285 --> 00:20:47.790 I agree, but does a CRO have to be an ops person? 00:20:47.910 --> 00:20:48.360 No. 00:20:48.360 --> 00:20:51.450 And that's probably why they're so good at being a C R O and they have a. 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:56.550 You know, kind of second in command ops person by their side because process 00:20:56.550 --> 00:20:59.670 maybe not their thing, you know, and some of the things that ops people think 00:20:59.670 --> 00:21:02.190 Warren Zena: about, I talk about it this way, you're a hundred percent right. 00:21:02.190 --> 00:21:06.660 I, I don't look at it as, I mean, I certainly think that, you know, there's 00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:14.490 the, uh, let's call it like the, the, the brain type cro, you know, who's more 00:21:14.490 --> 00:21:16.710 numbers driven and data driven and very. 00:21:17.790 --> 00:21:20.550 Process driven and, you know, they're, they're, they're gonna bring a 00:21:20.550 --> 00:21:25.200 certain type of cultural nuance to that role that someone who's more 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:29.580 leadership driven and more, you know, strategically driven to the role. 00:21:29.580 --> 00:21:32.370 And, you know, I think that I've seen two types of really 00:21:32.375 --> 00:21:33.750 successful chief revenue officers. 00:21:33.750 --> 00:21:37.889 Ones that are grounded in really amazing good data and business acumen, and they 00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:42.419 analyze everything and they look at things like systems and, you know, they, 00:21:42.690 --> 00:21:48.360 they're not necessarily these sort of like really, uh, You know, uh, let's say. 00:21:49.845 --> 00:21:53.565 They didn't have like, a lot of this sort of like, uh, strong leadership. 00:21:53.565 --> 00:21:55.215 They're not like these, um, what's the word? 00:21:55.215 --> 00:21:56.264 Like charismatic. 00:21:56.325 --> 00:21:56.415 Mm-hmm. 00:21:56.715 --> 00:22:00.585 Visionary types, you know, they're not like leading the charge and creating 00:22:00.585 --> 00:22:02.895 this big vision, but they're really good at getting the business done. 00:22:02.985 --> 00:22:05.715 And then they're the ones that are really good at being like the ralliers 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.054 and they know how to build teams and create this big vision and they 00:22:08.415 --> 00:22:10.095 employ people that get the job done. 00:22:10.155 --> 00:22:10.395 Mm-hmm. 00:22:10.475 --> 00:22:12.915 You know, and I see, you know, it's not one or two, but I 00:22:12.915 --> 00:22:13.905 see that's on the, on the. 00:22:14.689 --> 00:22:16.399 Outer end of the rim of the two types. 00:22:16.399 --> 00:22:17.030 That's where they are, right? 00:22:17.030 --> 00:22:17.179 Yep. 00:22:17.510 --> 00:22:21.919 And that's why I think that as revenue operations in the B2B space becomes 00:22:21.919 --> 00:22:25.610 more complex, marketing becomes more, becomes more complex, and more 00:22:25.610 --> 00:22:27.260 software tools get added into the mix. 00:22:27.264 --> 00:22:30.020 The way we're seeing now, more automation systems get into effect. 00:22:30.379 --> 00:22:31.370 You need to have. 00:22:32.415 --> 00:22:35.355 A partner who understands how all this stuff connects together and 00:22:35.355 --> 00:22:38.535 naturally thinks that way because you're ultimately gonna have everything 00:22:38.535 --> 00:22:41.775 plugging into some centralized CRM and all these other tools hanging off of it. 00:22:41.775 --> 00:22:44.055 And if you don't have somebody who can make sense of all of it for you 00:22:44.355 --> 00:22:46.935 on a day-to-day basis and run those things and keep everything running 00:22:46.935 --> 00:22:52.455 together, you're going to fight against the natural, uh, entropy of those 00:22:52.455 --> 00:22:55.665 teams all started to try and become individualized silos again, that's like. 00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:00.210 Nat, it's like a gravitational force of trying to push all these teams to 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:04.170 self net self-manage before someone has to keep the thing together. 00:23:04.170 --> 00:23:06.540 Yeah, and I think that's an interesting thing people to understand is that 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:09.060 this, this misalignment that these. 00:23:09.585 --> 00:23:12.615 Two functions that we're talking about fix, they do it 00:23:12.615 --> 00:23:14.265 because left their own devices. 00:23:14.265 --> 00:23:15.465 People run their own thing. 00:23:15.465 --> 00:23:16.575 You know, they don't cooperate. 00:23:16.875 --> 00:23:17.445 They just don't. 00:23:17.450 --> 00:23:20.445 It's not because they're not good people, it's just that we are more inclined to 00:23:20.445 --> 00:23:23.745 wanna survive, you know, and run our own little ship than we are to cooperate. 00:23:24.315 --> 00:23:28.095 And so to that end, you know, our, my, the audience listening to this, right? 00:23:28.095 --> 00:23:29.055 They're, they're CROs. 00:23:29.790 --> 00:23:34.709 They're aspiring CROs, and then they're also CEOs who are maybe 00:23:34.709 --> 00:23:37.800 in the process of thinking about maturing their revenue engines. 00:23:38.159 --> 00:23:41.010 So to those three people who are listening to this and they're thinking 00:23:41.010 --> 00:23:42.750 about, Hmm, rev ops, what is this thing? 00:23:42.750 --> 00:23:44.760 And, you know, what's the right timing for me? 00:23:44.760 --> 00:23:48.570 And, and, and, and if I'm in the process of thinking about maybe getting past my 00:23:48.570 --> 00:23:54.179 revenue stall or my revenue, um, plateau or whatever area I'm trying to increase 00:23:54.179 --> 00:23:58.830 and start to add, Disciplinary functions or strategic direction to my company. 00:23:59.250 --> 00:24:01.230 How does Rev op fit into that for them? 00:24:01.320 --> 00:24:01.379 Yeah. 00:24:01.770 --> 00:24:05.429 And what's a way in which they start to think about it so that they can make 00:24:05.435 --> 00:24:08.730 sense of it and, and pull it into their organizations in a way that makes it work? 00:24:09.090 --> 00:24:09.330 Yeah. 00:24:09.330 --> 00:24:09.389 Yeah. 00:24:09.389 --> 00:24:10.230 Rosalyn Santa Elena: That's a great question. 00:24:10.230 --> 00:24:14.260 And I think that, you know, I always ask folks when they're thinking 00:24:14.260 --> 00:24:19.600 about revenue operations, if they are at a point where, um, you know, 00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:21.580 obviously earlier, the better, right? 00:24:21.585 --> 00:24:23.860 To start bringing in some type of operations. 00:24:23.865 --> 00:24:24.410 Like, like how 00:24:24.410 --> 00:24:28.060 Warren Zena: early like I I, 1 million in revenue, 2 million, like when's the 00:24:28.065 --> 00:24:29.200 point at which you think about this? 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:29.710 Yeah, and 00:24:29.710 --> 00:24:32.650 Rosalyn Santa Elena: I let people try to put either a dollar amount or a 00:24:32.650 --> 00:24:36.400 headcount number on it, but I think that, you know, as we both know, a 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:37.840 million dollars in revenue could. 00:24:38.495 --> 00:24:42.485 One transaction, it could be a hundred transactions, right? 00:24:42.485 --> 00:24:46.745 And so it really depends on your, your selling motion and who do, 00:24:46.745 --> 00:24:50.195 who are you selling to in the complexity in terms of how you sell. 00:24:50.345 --> 00:24:54.125 So kind of taking a step away from those numbers, I think about. 00:24:54.659 --> 00:24:58.980 When you have product market fit right, when you are starting to sell, when your 00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:03.929 c e O is no longer your only seller, it's probably, it's time to start thinking 00:25:03.935 --> 00:25:05.490 about some of that infrastructure. 00:25:05.669 --> 00:25:08.879 Does it mean that you have to hire a full-blown rev op team? 00:25:08.970 --> 00:25:10.230 No, absolutely not. 00:25:10.230 --> 00:25:13.230 Does it mean that you have to hire an executive VP of rev ops? 00:25:13.320 --> 00:25:17.280 No, but it does mean that you need to start thinking about and start to build 00:25:17.280 --> 00:25:21.540 some of that foundation so that you're able to start creating a repeatable. 00:25:22.570 --> 00:25:22.810 Right. 00:25:22.815 --> 00:25:29.230 When you start to have somewhat of a sales process, you want to not only align that 00:25:29.230 --> 00:25:34.780 process to start to scale, but also look at the information to be able to iterate. 00:25:35.080 --> 00:25:39.430 Because in a small company, your ability to move fast and to iterate and to 00:25:39.430 --> 00:25:41.380 lean in on the things that are working. 00:25:41.745 --> 00:25:43.485 Is critical to your survival. 00:25:43.754 --> 00:25:43.935 Right? 00:25:43.935 --> 00:25:46.514 And that's where I think ops steps in, right? 00:25:46.514 --> 00:25:49.935 It's where you're starting to get your systems in line and maybe you just have a 00:25:49.935 --> 00:25:54.495 crm, which is fine, and don't over, we can go into whole section on, you know, whole, 00:25:54.705 --> 00:25:57.825 whole session on, not over overengineering your tech stack, but if you just 00:25:57.825 --> 00:26:02.385 start to have some type of system, you start to have a repeatable process. 00:26:02.504 --> 00:26:05.175 You start to build, lay out the groundwork, right? 00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:05.595 It's almost like. 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:10.810 Cement of your foundation, of your, your revenue, um, infrastructure, then 00:26:10.810 --> 00:26:12.430 you can start to build from there. 00:26:12.760 --> 00:26:17.170 Because more often than not, you see companies not hiring ops. 00:26:17.170 --> 00:26:21.910 And so what happens is their seller, their C R O, right, their VP of sales or 00:26:21.910 --> 00:26:25.540 their marketing leader, whoever, those folks that are already on board, they end 00:26:25.570 --> 00:26:30.640 up getting bogged down with the ops type of work, or they struggle to get those 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:32.530 insights and information that they need. 00:26:32.890 --> 00:26:34.690 In worst case, they build something. 00:26:35.140 --> 00:26:38.710 Think is, you know, that works for the company that isn't going 00:26:38.710 --> 00:26:40.150 to work for the company, right? 00:26:40.150 --> 00:26:43.750 It's not, maybe not best practices or the right way to build it, but they're 00:26:43.750 --> 00:26:46.480 kind of hobbling things together just to get, you know, through their day 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:47.920 and get the information that they need. 00:26:48.280 --> 00:26:53.590 And so when you do hire operations, uh, at that point, a lot of times it's unwinding 00:26:53.740 --> 00:26:58.090 some of the things that have been built incorrectly and then start to rebuild. 00:26:58.140 --> 00:26:58.460 Mm-hmm. 00:26:58.540 --> 00:26:59.860 The things that need to work. 00:27:00.190 --> 00:27:04.800 Um, Aside from them kind of working on things that may be building it 00:27:04.800 --> 00:27:09.030 incorrectly or maybe not in the best format for what you need longer term, 00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:13.110 but also takes away from them doing the things that they're really good at. 00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:13.740 Right. 00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:17.700 So if I'm a sales leader, instead of going out and selling and meeting customers, 00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:20.610 I'm spending time figuring out my systems. 00:27:20.610 --> 00:27:20.820 Right? 00:27:20.825 --> 00:27:22.770 Or just trying to get the data that I need. 00:27:22.860 --> 00:27:22.920 Yeah. 00:27:23.100 --> 00:27:25.440 And so it may not be there, you know, if they're, the more 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:26.700 the business acumen type of. 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:29.420 Then yes, maybe they know how to do it, but do you really 00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:30.800 want them spending time on that? 00:27:31.250 --> 00:27:34.250 And if they're not that type of process or systems person, then 00:27:34.250 --> 00:27:36.980 chances are they're struggling and they're not building it correctly. 00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:37.340 Warren Zena: Yeah. 00:27:37.345 --> 00:27:39.380 This make up great points there. 00:27:41.030 --> 00:27:44.960 You know, I see a lot of my clients struggle with pulling themselves out 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:50.330 of the technical quagmire, you know, because they, they'll add a sales force 00:27:50.330 --> 00:27:54.140 or a HubSpot system, and then there's a lot of admin associated with it, 00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:55.760 or just getting it set up properly. 00:27:56.625 --> 00:28:00.315 We sort of turn all of our people into technicians unwittingly, and they become 00:28:00.375 --> 00:28:04.035 software engineers without realizing it because we give them these tools to 00:28:04.035 --> 00:28:05.265 work with and then they're forced to. 00:28:05.265 --> 00:28:07.245 And then you get two types of people, right? 00:28:07.455 --> 00:28:09.705 So you get these certain people that are, they're. 00:28:11.610 --> 00:28:13.320 They're good at what they supposed to do. 00:28:13.320 --> 00:28:15.449 Like you put them, let's say, let's use sales as an example. 00:28:15.449 --> 00:28:17.459 You hire someone who's a good salesperson and they're really, 00:28:17.939 --> 00:28:21.090 um, responsible and they like getting on the phone and creating 00:28:21.090 --> 00:28:22.620 prospect and having conversations. 00:28:23.159 --> 00:28:25.709 And the more they complicate that process, the more they realize 00:28:25.715 --> 00:28:28.290 that they need to rely on the tools they've been given to make it work. 00:28:28.290 --> 00:28:31.439 And they become stuck in them and they're doing it too much and they 00:28:31.439 --> 00:28:33.330 kind of want to get out of it, you know, but they're, they're. 00:28:34.050 --> 00:28:37.439 And then the other type of person is people who use technology as a 00:28:37.439 --> 00:28:39.780 distraction to keep them away from doing things they don't want to 00:28:39.780 --> 00:28:41.010 do because you know, they're fun. 00:28:41.010 --> 00:28:42.629 You know, software can be fun. 00:28:42.689 --> 00:28:44.909 You know, it's sort of like a neat little thing. 00:28:44.909 --> 00:28:45.270 I see. 00:28:45.274 --> 00:28:48.179 I've seen this a lot where you get a couple of these salespeople that are 00:28:48.179 --> 00:28:50.760 sort of like quasi engineer types, you know, and they like sitting 00:28:50.760 --> 00:28:54.000 inside of Salesforce and fiddling with it and making things better. 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.790 And it's like, Steve, listen, you know, that's not your job, dude. 00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:57.840 Like, get on the phone. 00:28:57.840 --> 00:28:59.310 Like, yeah, but I can make this better. 00:28:59.310 --> 00:28:59.970 It would be amazing. 00:28:59.970 --> 00:29:01.230 You know, I'm gonna add this field. 00:29:01.235 --> 00:29:02.310 It's like, yeah, I get that. 00:29:02.314 --> 00:29:02.939 But they don't. 00:29:03.615 --> 00:29:08.535 And you know, it's, I think a rev ops function is a good way to sort of keep 00:29:08.535 --> 00:29:12.045 people focused on their jobs by having somebody responsible for something 00:29:12.375 --> 00:29:13.995 that is where it's supposed to be. 00:29:14.235 --> 00:29:16.725 And it's putting people not only in the seats where they're supposed to be, 00:29:16.935 --> 00:29:19.875 but keeping them focused on the actions that they're supposed to be focused on. 00:29:20.175 --> 00:29:23.415 Because the reason why there's a lot of salespeople, um, many times 00:29:23.415 --> 00:29:25.905 in companies because a lot of 'em half only selling half the time. 00:29:26.955 --> 00:29:28.815 You're only only getting half a person, you know? 00:29:28.845 --> 00:29:28.965 Yeah. 00:29:29.265 --> 00:29:30.645 And you need to get them efficient. 00:29:30.765 --> 00:29:34.935 And I see that this is part of the issue is that a rev ops function, it not only 00:29:34.935 --> 00:29:39.885 drives intelligence and creates process, but it also frees people up to do the 00:29:39.885 --> 00:29:41.385 things that they're supposed to be doing. 00:29:41.805 --> 00:29:45.195 And also gives them a focus, like focus here. 00:29:45.420 --> 00:29:46.290 Don't focus there. 00:29:46.320 --> 00:29:46.410 Mm-hmm. 00:29:46.650 --> 00:29:49.950 This data or this particular metric is more important than this one. 00:29:50.430 --> 00:29:53.550 And, you know, if you do this more often, you'll get this result as opposed to 00:29:53.550 --> 00:29:55.680 this other thing that you may occur. 00:29:55.685 --> 00:29:58.860 Like it's a good idea, but it's actually a waste of time in terms of our bottom line. 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:03.120 And I think that's a big part of it is rev ops is an intelligence, uh, layer. 00:30:03.120 --> 00:30:05.760 It, it makes people smarter about what they should and shouldn't do. 00:30:05.760 --> 00:30:07.650 And, um, yeah. 00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:12.450 It might be so much that you're saying is that in a way the rev ops 00:30:12.860 --> 00:30:14.730 function should follow any type. 00:30:16.020 --> 00:30:18.090 MA maturity around their technology. 00:30:18.449 --> 00:30:22.919 So when someone says, all right, we're getting HubSpot, you know, it's probably a 00:30:22.919 --> 00:30:25.889 good time to start thinking about bringing somebody in whom not just knows how to 00:30:25.889 --> 00:30:27.570 set up HubSpot, but actually thinks about. 00:30:28.065 --> 00:30:29.775 The organization from a data perspective. 00:30:29.775 --> 00:30:31.995 I'm just curious what your thoughts are in terms of the timing. 00:30:32.025 --> 00:30:32.655 Yeah, definitely. 00:30:32.655 --> 00:30:34.605 Rosalyn Santa Elena: I think when you think about the data and then the 00:30:34.605 --> 00:30:38.775 processes and the governance, right, as well as the adoption that needs 00:30:38.775 --> 00:30:43.245 to happen around any technology and even before you get the technology 00:30:43.245 --> 00:30:45.435 right, what is that process look like? 00:30:45.490 --> 00:30:49.120 Does everybody, is everybody, you know, clear on what that process is? 00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:51.520 Do they, are they enabled to follow the process? 00:30:51.520 --> 00:30:52.780 Do they understand the why? 00:30:52.780 --> 00:30:53.170 Right? 00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:58.150 And building a lot of that, um, to be able to then bring in. 00:30:58.860 --> 00:31:01.274 Um, technology to help drive efficiency. 00:31:01.274 --> 00:31:01.574 Right. 00:31:01.655 --> 00:31:02.985 And, and automation. 00:31:03.345 --> 00:31:06.105 I always tell folks that before you buy technology, I think a lot of 00:31:06.105 --> 00:31:09.645 times people will buy technology as a forcing kind of function to get their 00:31:09.645 --> 00:31:12.584 processes right and to kind of really think about how they wanna do business. 00:31:12.615 --> 00:31:13.185 Yeah, it's true. 00:31:13.254 --> 00:31:13.615 It's, 00:31:13.615 --> 00:31:16.485 Warren Zena: it's, it's, it does, it forced this things to happen when you 00:31:16.485 --> 00:31:17.774 get tech, you know, cuz there's no way. 00:31:17.915 --> 00:31:19.565 There's no interpretation left anymore. 00:31:19.565 --> 00:31:22.115 It's like, okay, we're trying to create facts that's right here, folks. 00:31:22.504 --> 00:31:22.655 You 00:31:22.655 --> 00:31:22.805 Rosalyn Santa Elena: know? 00:31:22.865 --> 00:31:23.495 That's right. 00:31:23.500 --> 00:31:23.995 That's funny. 00:31:23.995 --> 00:31:24.355 That's right. 00:31:24.355 --> 00:31:27.605 And so I think if you, yeah, and so a lot of times it's like if you can, if 00:31:27.605 --> 00:31:32.375 you have a process and the process is working and you understand it, then if 00:31:32.375 --> 00:31:35.615 you bring in tech layer on technology on top of that, then you're getting 00:31:35.620 --> 00:31:37.415 the true benefit and the roi, right? 00:31:37.415 --> 00:31:40.534 Because then you're starting to get the automation and getting 00:31:40.534 --> 00:31:43.155 better efficiency through the te. 00:31:43.695 --> 00:31:43.784 Right. 00:31:43.784 --> 00:31:44.715 And then the technology. 00:31:44.825 --> 00:31:45.225 Mm-hmm. 00:31:45.305 --> 00:31:48.675 In a lot of cases, when there's really deep analytics or insights, 00:31:48.885 --> 00:31:53.685 is able to then provide the level of insights that maybe a human either 00:31:53.685 --> 00:31:56.085 can't do or it takes them hours to do. 00:31:56.294 --> 00:31:56.534 Right. 00:31:56.534 --> 00:31:59.055 Being able to pull all this data and be able to do that. 00:31:59.355 --> 00:32:01.905 Um, the other thing I think to think about, you know, we talked about 00:32:01.905 --> 00:32:03.225 a lot of factors to think about. 00:32:03.585 --> 00:32:04.905 Whether or not you need ops. 00:32:05.325 --> 00:32:08.535 But yeah, I think another reason is you know when you 00:32:08.535 --> 00:32:10.575 don't have visibility, right? 00:32:10.575 --> 00:32:14.445 I think when you are not really sure what your forecast looks like or you're 00:32:14.445 --> 00:32:18.345 not really sure where those leads are coming from, or you're not really sure 00:32:18.350 --> 00:32:21.435 you know what's working and what's not in any part of the end-to-end 00:32:21.435 --> 00:32:25.155 funnel, that's where your ops, kind of that revenue operations around the 00:32:25.155 --> 00:32:26.895 intelligence piece that you were speaking. 00:32:27.490 --> 00:32:29.860 That's where it's super powerful, right? 00:32:29.860 --> 00:32:33.280 Because yes, there's the kind of the, the practical side of building 00:32:33.280 --> 00:32:38.230 infrastructure, but it's about unlocking those insights to really share, you 00:32:38.235 --> 00:32:40.030 know, what's working and what's not. 00:32:40.060 --> 00:32:43.629 Because I think that's the blind spots that you hear a lot from companies. 00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:43.899 Yeah. 00:32:43.899 --> 00:32:46.419 They're selling, they have 12 customers, they're. 00:32:46.784 --> 00:32:50.955 Generating some revenue, but they don't really know why they're, 00:32:51.195 --> 00:32:53.264 why did these customers sign up? 00:32:53.294 --> 00:32:55.784 Why did these customers sign up and not these other, you know, 00:32:55.784 --> 00:32:57.074 a hundred that they talked to? 00:32:57.314 --> 00:33:01.334 And really di diving more deep into those insights and then feeding that 00:33:01.340 --> 00:33:03.284 back into the engine is really important. 00:33:03.824 --> 00:33:06.689 Um, And it's not just when customers sign up, right? 00:33:06.689 --> 00:33:10.230 I've been on my soapbox lately about when customers leave you. 00:33:10.530 --> 00:33:10.860 Right? 00:33:10.860 --> 00:33:12.959 Really, there's so much learnings there. 00:33:12.959 --> 00:33:16.050 If a customer turns, there's so much learning there to 00:33:16.050 --> 00:33:17.879 understand why did they leave? 00:33:17.879 --> 00:33:20.610 Was it just because they went out of business and they didn't have funding? 00:33:20.820 --> 00:33:24.810 You know, was it because they didn't get the experience that they were expecting? 00:33:24.959 --> 00:33:28.350 Were they never a, a, a, a customer that should have bought 00:33:28.350 --> 00:33:29.699 in the first place, right? 00:33:29.699 --> 00:33:30.030 But all. 00:33:30.340 --> 00:33:33.340 Things, whatever those learnings are, you can feed that back into your 00:33:33.340 --> 00:33:36.939 top of funnel marketing, into your messaging, into your sales cycle, 00:33:36.939 --> 00:33:38.949 you know, all along the journey. 00:33:38.980 --> 00:33:42.580 And there's so much to learn there, but I think there's a lot of insights 00:33:42.580 --> 00:33:44.110 there that we're not tapping into. 00:33:44.260 --> 00:33:47.919 But then if you have a rev ops function that is solely focused on a lot of 00:33:47.919 --> 00:33:51.290 this kind of holistic view of the business, that's where you're gonna 00:33:51.290 --> 00:33:55.120 glean those insights, you know, those deeper insights, and then also help 00:33:55.120 --> 00:33:56.439 you see kind of what's around the. 00:33:57.225 --> 00:33:58.485 And we always talk about the blind 00:33:58.485 --> 00:33:58.935 Warren Zena: spots. 00:33:58.965 --> 00:33:59.235 Yeah. 00:33:59.235 --> 00:34:00.105 It's so important. 00:34:00.105 --> 00:34:01.785 I it's intelligence again. 00:34:01.845 --> 00:34:07.155 You know, I think that aside from not knowing or not knowing how things 00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:11.054 happen or when they happen, or you know, what the events that occur that 00:34:11.054 --> 00:34:15.240 make things happen, A lot of times too, the companies I work with, they 00:34:15.240 --> 00:34:16.650 don't even know the questions to ask. 00:34:16.655 --> 00:34:16.740 Mm-hmm. 00:34:17.220 --> 00:34:19.230 They don't know what they're looking for, you know? 00:34:19.230 --> 00:34:21.930 Which is why we created a bunch of diagnostics that forced them 00:34:21.930 --> 00:34:25.500 to say things like, so what's the time to market that you take? 00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:27.450 How long does it take a customer to become a customer? 00:34:27.450 --> 00:34:30.300 How long does take a customer to reach value? 00:34:30.330 --> 00:34:31.770 What's the time that it takes for you? 00:34:32.230 --> 00:34:35.409 When a person first reaches out to you that you close a deal, what's the cost 00:34:35.409 --> 00:34:36.880 it costs you to get that customer? 00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.239 There's like a hundred questions you can ask and you know, I'm amazed if some 00:34:40.245 --> 00:34:41.589 of the CEOs I work with are eyes open. 00:34:41.594 --> 00:34:42.969 Like, I don't know any of these interest. 00:34:42.975 --> 00:34:44.589 Like, well, you know, you should, right? 00:34:44.650 --> 00:34:47.529 And you know, think about it, if you had all this information. 00:34:48.010 --> 00:34:49.810 How much smarter you'd be working every day. 00:34:49.810 --> 00:34:55.090 Because the in intent would be to identify we two or three key trigger events that, 00:34:55.090 --> 00:34:58.330 you know, if we do these repeatedly and we can make them happen repeatedly, a 00:34:58.330 --> 00:35:01.690 lot of other ones cascade from those that will result in us getting business faster. 00:35:01.695 --> 00:35:01.900 Right? 00:35:01.950 --> 00:35:02.270 That's right. 00:35:02.350 --> 00:35:04.270 And when you can identify that, that's when that repeatable 00:35:04.270 --> 00:35:05.410 business engine comes into play. 00:35:05.410 --> 00:35:08.170 I think the rev ops is such a key component of that, because without 00:35:08.170 --> 00:35:10.090 that intelligence, you're never really gonna, you're always gonna be sort 00:35:10.090 --> 00:35:11.290 of guessing all the time, you know? 00:35:12.035 --> 00:35:12.140 Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yep. 00:35:12.145 --> 00:35:12.330 Yep. 00:35:12.330 --> 00:35:13.890 And especially in this market, right? 00:35:13.890 --> 00:35:18.000 When everyone's talking about doing better with less or doing more with less, it's, 00:35:18.299 --> 00:35:21.980 it's all about putting your money, your resource, you know, all of your resources, 00:35:21.984 --> 00:35:26.399 time, money, people towards the right things that are going to drive the best, 00:35:26.399 --> 00:35:29.520 you know, most likely I, uh, outcomes. 00:35:29.580 --> 00:35:29.879 Right? 00:35:29.879 --> 00:35:30.700 The ones that you want. 00:35:30.990 --> 00:35:34.799 And I think we spend a lot of time and money on doing thi a lot of 00:35:34.799 --> 00:35:38.189 the things that people are like, don't really see the value in doing. 00:35:38.189 --> 00:35:38.250 Yeah. 00:35:39.410 --> 00:35:39.700 Warren Zena: I. 00:35:40.770 --> 00:35:42.690 So I'm gonna ask you a question. 00:35:43.020 --> 00:35:49.290 Be helpful in this framework is so to the CROs that are listening 00:35:49.290 --> 00:35:50.310 to this conversation right now. 00:35:51.765 --> 00:35:55.365 What would your, what would your sort of perspective or advice to, to the 00:35:55.365 --> 00:35:59.294 lack of a better word be in terms of how to best, how A C R O should 00:35:59.294 --> 00:36:00.765 best work with a rev ops person? 00:36:00.825 --> 00:36:03.645 Like what's the right sort of cadence in the right way in which that 00:36:03.734 --> 00:36:05.205 particular role would benefit them? 00:36:05.504 --> 00:36:07.154 And what's the, like, structure of it? 00:36:07.334 --> 00:36:08.355 What's the cadence of it? 00:36:08.714 --> 00:36:10.154 What's the nature of the relationship? 00:36:10.154 --> 00:36:12.825 And so, uh, maybe even some ceros. 00:36:13.830 --> 00:36:16.919 Maybe either a, being challenged with the rev ops function right 00:36:16.919 --> 00:36:22.259 now, or CROs who are thinking about increasing or like augmenting the, 00:36:22.709 --> 00:36:23.939 the, the rev op function they have. 00:36:24.270 --> 00:36:26.040 What kind of advice would you give them in terms of how to 00:36:26.040 --> 00:36:26.669 Rosalyn Santa Elena: best utilize it? 00:36:26.700 --> 00:36:27.089 Yeah. 00:36:27.180 --> 00:36:29.939 I think, you know, st starting to, you know, at a very 00:36:29.939 --> 00:36:32.549 foundational basic, um, level. 00:36:33.100 --> 00:36:36.670 Start thinking about your revenue operations as really that 00:36:36.670 --> 00:36:39.549 strategic business partner, right? 00:36:39.549 --> 00:36:43.540 Stop thinking about them as just the data or just the tech, or just 00:36:43.540 --> 00:36:48.759 the tactical folks, and really think about that leader needs to be. 00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:52.410 You know, your business partner, your thought leader, the one that 00:36:52.410 --> 00:36:57.390 really executes upon the things that you want to accomplish, right? 00:36:57.390 --> 00:37:01.890 I think about me as a VP of Rev ops, working with the C R O, kind 00:37:01.895 --> 00:37:04.280 of in my past roles and the C R O. 00:37:04.935 --> 00:37:08.445 He or she may have a specific like idea, right? 00:37:08.685 --> 00:37:10.245 That, oh, I think we should go do this. 00:37:10.275 --> 00:37:10.515 Right? 00:37:10.515 --> 00:37:16.185 And as an ops professional, that person, if um, you know, if you hire for the 00:37:16.185 --> 00:37:19.335 right, with the right expertise and knowledge, they're gonna challenge 00:37:19.335 --> 00:37:23.085 you right on a lot of this and either support you and say, yes, this is right 00:37:23.085 --> 00:37:27.885 because of the data, proves it, or, Th that's just, you know, that is not 00:37:27.885 --> 00:37:29.655 a good idea and it's not gonna work. 00:37:29.745 --> 00:37:33.735 And they need to be able to be at that level where they can challenge 00:37:33.735 --> 00:37:37.785 you and help you make the best decisions for the overall business. 00:37:37.815 --> 00:37:41.925 And I think the sooner you think about the role as being more of a strategic 00:37:41.925 --> 00:37:46.425 business partner and thought leader than as a tactical, you know, order taker or 00:37:46.425 --> 00:37:51.735 administrator, then the, the faster you're going to get that true value from someone. 00:37:51.795 --> 00:37:52.395 And I think a. 00:37:52.875 --> 00:37:56.025 Professional because we are, it's a really unique. 00:37:58.305 --> 00:38:03.855 Uh, personality, I think because we are folks who are, can be very strategic, 00:38:03.855 --> 00:38:05.415 but aren't afraid of the tactical. 00:38:05.625 --> 00:38:06.044 Right. 00:38:06.165 --> 00:38:09.464 And we are very outwardly facing because one of the biggest, I 00:38:09.470 --> 00:38:14.294 think, key traits of a successful rev op leader is that they can. 00:38:14.750 --> 00:38:19.330 Drive consensus and be able to influence and align multiple 00:38:19.335 --> 00:38:24.590 stakeholders who have very different agendas and values and goals, right? 00:38:24.590 --> 00:38:27.200 And be able to bring everybody along for that journey. 00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:30.770 That's a key trait that I think is number one over anything 00:38:30.770 --> 00:38:34.280 else, I think for a RevUps leader is that ability to influence. 00:38:34.495 --> 00:38:37.134 Drive consensus, that really strong communicator. 00:38:37.524 --> 00:38:41.575 Um, but on top of that, we're also not afraid to go dig into the data, right? 00:38:41.575 --> 00:38:44.214 And be tech, be technical and not afraid of systems. 00:38:44.395 --> 00:38:48.504 So it's a really unique kind of balance of mindset for those folks. 00:38:48.825 --> 00:38:53.785 And, and it's hard to find, you know, I think it's harder to find that person. 00:38:54.115 --> 00:38:58.325 Um, but at the same time, you can co, you can compliment that by. 00:38:59.010 --> 00:39:02.010 Folks that are in that kind of more technical, tactical and then have 00:39:02.370 --> 00:39:03.690 somebody who's more strategic as well. 00:39:03.690 --> 00:39:07.440 If you can't find kind of that one, we call it the unicorn or the purple 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:07.860 Warren Zena: squirrel. 00:39:07.890 --> 00:39:10.860 Yeah, it's great you say this cuz the thing I tell my clients 00:39:10.860 --> 00:39:14.310 a lot is your rev ops person. 00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:17.790 Is going to be the person that will give you the evidence that 00:39:17.790 --> 00:39:21.690 you need to make decisions and sell the decisions into the company. 00:39:21.690 --> 00:39:21.779 Mm-hmm. 00:39:22.020 --> 00:39:28.200 Because you know what happens a lot at the executive level is it's a lot of 00:39:28.200 --> 00:39:31.680 opinions being bounced at each other, and it's the one who's in charge most 00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:33.270 that wins when it's a battle of opinions. 00:39:33.270 --> 00:39:33.480 Right. 00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:33.540 Yeah. 00:39:34.169 --> 00:39:36.540 I'm in charge of my opinions more importantly, you know? 00:39:36.569 --> 00:39:36.870 Okay. 00:39:37.620 --> 00:39:38.399 But if I have. 00:39:39.765 --> 00:39:41.685 And that data is monetized data. 00:39:41.685 --> 00:39:45.105 Like for example, we're losing this much money, or we'll make this much more money, 00:39:45.105 --> 00:39:46.515 or we'll gain this many more customers. 00:39:46.515 --> 00:39:46.605 Mm-hmm. 00:39:46.935 --> 00:39:48.045 You can win any argument. 00:39:48.075 --> 00:39:51.315 And so you sort of need to have that rev op person to, to kind of almost put 00:39:51.315 --> 00:39:55.305 them into a mission and say, all right, I need you to create a rationale for me. 00:39:55.305 --> 00:39:58.935 If please first, first, Val, validate it, validate my claim, my thesis. 00:39:58.935 --> 00:39:59.115 Right. 00:39:59.625 --> 00:40:01.815 And then once you validated it, if I'm wrong, fine. 00:40:01.815 --> 00:40:02.025 Tell me. 00:40:02.745 --> 00:40:07.455 Then I need to put together the story using data to make my case so that I can 00:40:07.455 --> 00:40:11.685 get movement and I can get consensus, and I can get resources and authority 00:40:11.685 --> 00:40:13.635 and permission to take actions. 00:40:13.635 --> 00:40:17.175 And it's so critically important and I find a lot of my clients are coming to 00:40:17.175 --> 00:40:18.645 me and saying, oh, my boss won't do X. 00:40:18.645 --> 00:40:19.815 My boss won't do Y. 00:40:20.025 --> 00:40:22.216 And it's just all it is is they're just arguing with each other about this. 00:40:22.221 --> 00:40:22.585 That's right. 00:40:23.095 --> 00:40:23.485 That's right. 00:40:23.515 --> 00:40:24.505 Like, did you do any data? 00:40:24.505 --> 00:40:25.345 Did you do any research? 00:40:25.345 --> 00:40:25.585 That's right. 00:40:25.585 --> 00:40:29.545 Can you bring your boss, like a PowerPoint presentation that shows how much money 00:40:29.545 --> 00:40:32.995 they're losing that one way, or how much money they're gonna make the other way. 00:40:33.175 --> 00:40:36.685 And when they do that, it's, it's, you know, you really can be very persuasive. 00:40:36.685 --> 00:40:43.545 So I think your secret weapon, You know is your rev ops person whom can 00:40:43.634 --> 00:40:45.255 first make sure you're not crazy. 00:40:45.750 --> 00:40:48.375 And then second of all, then help you tell your story better. 00:40:48.435 --> 00:40:48.615 Right? 00:40:48.620 --> 00:40:48.705 Yeah. 00:40:48.765 --> 00:40:49.725 More persuasively. 00:40:49.725 --> 00:40:52.365 So I think it's important cuz so much of being a C R O is 00:40:52.370 --> 00:40:53.415 about trying to get stuff done. 00:40:53.475 --> 00:40:53.565 Yes. 00:40:53.835 --> 00:40:57.105 And trying to break down walls and like get decisions made and get 00:40:57.110 --> 00:40:59.025 resource allocations and approvals. 00:40:59.085 --> 00:40:59.535 Oh God. 00:40:59.884 --> 00:41:02.444 And so, you know, if I had somebody who I knew can do that, then you know, 00:41:02.444 --> 00:41:04.154 you, you got a great, a great partner. 00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:09.960 Um, any other things you wanted to like emphasize about the Rev ops role and. 00:41:10.365 --> 00:41:11.835 You know, your own business. 00:41:12.105 --> 00:41:15.585 Before we, we end here cuz we're coming up on time, I wanted to make 00:41:15.590 --> 00:41:17.955 sure that I have a chance for you to, like, how do people reach you? 00:41:17.955 --> 00:41:18.825 What are you working on? 00:41:18.825 --> 00:41:20.025 What are some things that are happening? 00:41:20.325 --> 00:41:24.285 Maybe important things you'd like for people to listen to know about yourself 00:41:24.315 --> 00:41:26.025 or the rev ops role, whatever the case 00:41:26.025 --> 00:41:26.175 Rosalyn Santa Elena: may be. 00:41:26.175 --> 00:41:27.045 Yeah, no, no. 00:41:27.045 --> 00:41:28.625 Thank you for just the opportunity. 00:41:28.995 --> 00:41:32.655 I'm super, you know, was very excited to kind of be on this podcast. 00:41:32.655 --> 00:41:36.585 I think it's been a long time coming, so I'm happy to be here and you 00:41:36.585 --> 00:41:38.625 know, just share more anytime I. 00:41:39.050 --> 00:41:41.210 A platform to talk about Rev op, I'm gonna take it. 00:41:41.210 --> 00:41:41.390 Right. 00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:43.850 I'm just so passionate about it. 00:41:43.850 --> 00:41:43.940 Sure. 00:41:43.940 --> 00:41:47.060 And yeah, just definitely building, if anyone wants to reach out, 00:41:47.120 --> 00:41:48.800 LinkedIn is always the best way. 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:52.520 You can also come to the rev ops collective.com website, 00:41:52.550 --> 00:41:54.290 book, book some time with me. 00:41:54.620 --> 00:41:57.740 Um, that's probably a better way to get in front of me and to, to have, 00:41:57.745 --> 00:42:01.850 just have a conversation because I think all of us are probably in this 00:42:01.850 --> 00:42:05.000 LinkedIn, uh, DM kind of madness. 00:42:05.770 --> 00:42:09.910 You know, we can't find any messages, um, in terms of their, things get lost. 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:11.200 But yeah, reach out anytime. 00:42:11.200 --> 00:42:14.170 I'm always happy to talk shop, always happy to talk to any, you 00:42:14.170 --> 00:42:18.549 know, CEOs, founders, CROs who are maybe more interested in learning 00:42:18.549 --> 00:42:21.880 about rev ops and like, why do they need it and when do they need it? 00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:26.020 And, you know, if they are convinced that they need it, you know, what do they need? 00:42:26.380 --> 00:42:28.990 And also I think we, I see a lot of also. 00:42:30.165 --> 00:42:33.585 I think you mentioned earlier around they have rev ops, but maybe 00:42:33.585 --> 00:42:36.885 they're not leveraging it properly or they're not seeing the value. 00:42:37.035 --> 00:42:37.125 Right. 00:42:37.125 --> 00:42:40.725 Because it hasn't been, you know, maybe set up properly or enabled 00:42:40.730 --> 00:42:44.385 to be that strategic advisor that we're, you know, that we're talking 00:42:44.390 --> 00:42:44.685 Warren Zena: about. 00:42:44.690 --> 00:42:44.835 Yeah. 00:42:44.835 --> 00:42:46.795 It's like the, uh, Ferrari in the garage, you know? 00:42:46.795 --> 00:42:47.035 Yeah. 00:42:47.095 --> 00:42:48.675 You gotta like unleash the power. 00:42:48.675 --> 00:42:48.735 Yeah. 00:42:49.845 --> 00:42:50.235 Well, great. 00:42:50.235 --> 00:42:53.565 Well, so it's the Rev Ops collective and uh, they can find 00:42:53.565 --> 00:42:55.215 you at the rev ops collective.com. 00:42:55.215 --> 00:42:55.425 Rosalyn Santa Elena: Right. 00:42:56.040 --> 00:42:56.310 Yep. 00:42:56.370 --> 00:42:57.060 Definitely. 00:42:57.149 --> 00:42:59.399 And yeah, and for anyone who's listening, they've gotta go back 00:42:59.399 --> 00:43:02.970 and listen to our initial episode on the revenue engine when you's Right. 00:43:02.970 --> 00:43:03.690 Were a guest's, 00:43:03.779 --> 00:43:05.759 Warren Zena: which is totally, I, I haven't listened to it at all. 00:43:05.759 --> 00:43:06.690 Yeah, I wanna hear what that was like. 00:43:06.690 --> 00:43:08.000 I probably sound like a little whipper snap. 00:43:08.750 --> 00:43:10.200 Rosalyn Santa Elena: Heck, I was saying No, I'd be surprised. 00:43:10.200 --> 00:43:13.259 I think I, I bet you we'd be pleasantly surprised if we were to listen to 00:43:13.259 --> 00:43:16.720 it, that a lot of the messaging is still consistent three years later 00:43:16.720 --> 00:43:17.850 or two and a half years later. 00:43:17.850 --> 00:43:18.180 Right. 00:43:19.290 --> 00:43:20.040 Warren Zena: I'll, I'll listen. 00:43:20.080 --> 00:43:21.420 I, I, I, I trust you. 00:43:21.450 --> 00:43:23.460 I, I'm a my worst critic. 00:43:24.060 --> 00:43:26.850 Um, so to that end, um, thank you. 00:43:26.910 --> 00:43:31.590 And, uh, you know, just a little kind of a related plug, you know, uh, 00:43:31.620 --> 00:43:35.220 Rosalyn's gonna be a guest speaker on the C R O Accelerator course, 00:43:35.220 --> 00:43:37.800 which is for aspiring Chief Revenue Officers, and we're excited to have her. 00:43:38.290 --> 00:43:41.710 We actually add some more depth to some of the people who are participating. 00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:45.040 And, uh, for those interested on the podcast, if you're interested 00:43:45.040 --> 00:43:48.640 in becoming a Chief Revenue Officer, the next c r o collective Accelerator 00:43:48.640 --> 00:43:49.930 course is coming up in April. 00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:50.650 It's a great course. 00:43:50.655 --> 00:43:52.570 Everyone's getting a lot out of it, and I love doing it. 00:43:53.085 --> 00:43:57.105 And then for CEOs, uh, we have the, um, c o readiness program. 00:43:57.165 --> 00:43:58.935 If you're thinking about hiring a Chief Revenue Officer, you should 00:43:58.935 --> 00:44:01.575 definitely talk to me because you make a lot of mistakes along the way. 00:44:01.575 --> 00:44:03.735 It can cost you like about a million dollars, literally about 00:44:03.735 --> 00:44:05.805 a million dollars in wasted money if you don't do it properly. 00:44:05.810 --> 00:44:09.525 Plus maybe a couple years of, of a, of a stall on the way that you are 00:44:09.525 --> 00:44:10.755 operating in revenue operations. 00:44:10.755 --> 00:44:11.805 So gimme a buzz about that. 00:44:12.225 --> 00:44:13.665 But anyway, this is always great, Raj. 00:44:13.665 --> 00:44:14.685 Thank you so much. 00:44:14.745 --> 00:44:15.375 Um, I know you're. 00:44:16.150 --> 00:44:19.480 And, um, uh, I just love, uh, having your, your, your wisdom 00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:21.100 shared with all, with the audience. 00:44:21.130 --> 00:44:24.670 And, um, I'll see you on your, in your community and I'll see you in a 00:44:24.675 --> 00:44:26.230 couple weeks on the, uh, on the course. 00:44:26.260 --> 00:44:26.590 Thanks. 00:44:26.770 --> 00:44:27.070 Awesome. 00:44:27.070 --> 00:44:27.820 Thank you so much. 00:44:27.820 --> 00:44:28.150 You got it. 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:28.660 Bye-bye.