WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-GB 00:00:08.350 --> 00:00:12.540 Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader, and this is the Silvercore podcast. 00:00:13.380 --> 00:00:17.930 Silvercore has been providing its members with the skills and knowledge 00:00:17.950 --> 00:00:22.620 necessary to be confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 20 years. 00:00:22.710 --> 00:00:26.790 And we make it easier for people to deepen their connection to the natural world. 00:00:27.730 --> 00:00:30.500 If you enjoy the positive and educational content. 00:00:30.710 --> 00:00:35.530 We provide, please let others know by sharing, commenting, and 00:00:35.530 --> 00:00:39.630 following so that you can join in on everything that Silvercore stands for. 00:00:40.710 --> 00:00:43.340 If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the 00:00:43.340 --> 00:00:47.929 Silvercore club and community, visit our website at silvercore. 00:00:47.940 --> 00:00:48.370 ca. 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:55.280 I'm joined today by a Canadian infantry combat veteran who spent 00:00:55.290 --> 00:00:56.720 three weeks in a coma in the U. 00:00:56.720 --> 00:00:56.839 S. 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:58.400 military hospital in Germany. 00:00:58.919 --> 00:01:01.559 With no fewer than 47 broken bones in his body. 00:01:02.220 --> 00:01:05.160 He's a past director of Wounded Warriors Canada and a passionate 00:01:05.179 --> 00:01:08.350 advocate for soldiers facing physical and mental health challenges. 00:01:08.729 --> 00:01:11.600 He's an avid sports shooter and hunter, and now works with Stoker 00:01:11.609 --> 00:01:15.240 Canada and Breda Defense Technologies, getting next generation weapons 00:01:15.240 --> 00:01:17.139 and technology to our soldiers. 00:01:17.949 --> 00:01:20.779 Welcome podcast, David McDonald. 00:01:20.850 --> 00:01:21.100 Thanks for 00:01:21.100 --> 00:01:21.449 David Macdonald: having me. 00:01:21.559 --> 00:01:24.169 I appreciate the opportunity to come on into the podcast and. 00:01:24.720 --> 00:01:28.429 Yeah, answer any questions or talk wherever you want. 00:01:28.440 --> 00:01:28.840 Well, I'm 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:29.370 Travis Bader: stoked. 00:01:29.410 --> 00:01:31.630 You know, well, I guess, first off, how was your flight 00:01:31.630 --> 00:01:31.850 David Macdonald: in? 00:01:32.300 --> 00:01:33.030 Flight was fine. 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:35.539 Uh, they said we're going to hit turbulence and it never really happened. 00:01:35.539 --> 00:01:36.840 So I can't complain. 00:01:36.870 --> 00:01:41.440 Um, I'm always thrown off a little bit that it takes, you From where I live, 00:01:41.440 --> 00:01:44.169 uh, you know, near where I'm flying out of Toronto, I don't live just 00:01:44.169 --> 00:01:45.369 outside Toronto or anything like that. 00:01:45.729 --> 00:01:48.759 The time it takes to fly from heat, from Toronto to Vancouver is 00:01:48.759 --> 00:01:49.949 basically the exact same distance. 00:01:49.949 --> 00:01:52.619 It goes from, from Toronto to London, England. 00:01:52.619 --> 00:01:54.059 So, you know, it's, uh, 00:01:54.499 --> 00:01:55.729 Travis Bader: it's crazy, man. 00:01:55.729 --> 00:01:56.350 It's probably cheaper 00:01:56.350 --> 00:01:57.029 David Macdonald: to fly to London. 00:01:57.169 --> 00:01:57.559 It is. 00:01:57.579 --> 00:02:00.490 My sister lives there and I see her about three times a year and it is cheaper 00:02:00.490 --> 00:02:01.929 to fly there than it is to Vancouver. 00:02:01.929 --> 00:02:03.359 But, uh, you're saying he might've 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:04.699 Travis Bader: had a bit of a celebrity on the flight. 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:05.410 Yeah, 00:02:05.410 --> 00:02:08.600 David Macdonald: we were, we were, um, me, uh, me and my, uh, coworker were 00:02:08.600 --> 00:02:11.950 flying out here and we were boarding the plane and a couple of seats back from us. 00:02:11.950 --> 00:02:16.060 And I, I got on the plane and I'm like, is that Pierre Pauly? 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:19.270 Yeah, because it looks a bit like him, but I didn't want to be the guy to be 00:02:19.270 --> 00:02:21.710 like, call him out, but kind of had to. 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:24.520 It looked like he was talking to someone and I was just like, Hey, Pierre. 00:02:24.530 --> 00:02:26.050 And he turns around, he's like, yeah. 00:02:26.619 --> 00:02:27.329 I'm like, Oh, okay. 00:02:27.329 --> 00:02:30.869 It is him or like, I just didn't think, you know, the leader of the opposition 00:02:30.869 --> 00:02:35.269 was going to be flying economy WestJet out to, uh, out, uh, uh, Vancouver. 00:02:35.269 --> 00:02:37.920 But yeah, it was, uh, it was cool to see him. 00:02:37.920 --> 00:02:40.809 Um, you know, he sat there and talked to a whole bunch of people and stuff like that. 00:02:40.820 --> 00:02:43.060 Then he went to the back of the plane and, you know, was doing, I guess, some 00:02:43.060 --> 00:02:47.354 stuff with his team, but, uh, but it was just really cool, you know, to see him. 00:02:47.645 --> 00:02:51.305 It not to see, I used to see him on a commercial flight and not taking 00:02:51.555 --> 00:02:53.815 like a government airbus or cause I'm sure that's available to him. 00:02:53.815 --> 00:02:54.715 So yeah. 00:02:54.735 --> 00:02:54.975 Travis Bader: Yeah. 00:02:55.475 --> 00:02:58.795 It's, you know, it's, I'm sure it's all part of it, but I mean, he's got a 00:02:58.795 --> 00:03:00.425 choice and some people choose not to, 00:03:00.525 --> 00:03:02.315 David Macdonald: and I've, I've taken, I was lucky enough 00:03:02.315 --> 00:03:03.195 to actually fly one of those. 00:03:03.645 --> 00:03:06.635 Government Airbus is one time back from Alberta, from a military accident. 00:03:06.645 --> 00:03:08.205 So they're, they're, they are comfortable. 00:03:08.215 --> 00:03:09.375 So yeah, I believe they would be. 00:03:09.375 --> 00:03:12.675 It's a little, it's definitely better than flying economy WestJet, not 00:03:12.675 --> 00:03:16.004 that anything's going bad against WestJet, but, uh, it's a little more 00:03:16.004 --> 00:03:19.625 spacious on those government, uh, provided, uh, contract flights, but. 00:03:19.910 --> 00:03:20.610 Travis Bader: That's funny. 00:03:20.650 --> 00:03:24.020 You know, I, uh, recently I was talking with a friend of mine and 00:03:24.020 --> 00:03:29.050 he's, uh, moved up to the Soyouz area and he was asked to run as a mayor 00:03:29.090 --> 00:03:34.059 up there and he's a big advocate, advocate in the firearms community. 00:03:34.059 --> 00:03:35.789 And he's got a firearms business. 00:03:35.789 --> 00:03:38.450 People could probably figure it out just by the information I'm given here. 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.410 And, uh, he's involved with his local range and they're. 00:03:43.220 --> 00:03:48.600 He gets a contact saying, Hey, we've got a, um, uh, someone who 00:03:48.600 --> 00:03:49.610 wants to come into the range. 00:03:49.610 --> 00:03:52.489 It's, it's Pierre, you'd want to come to the range and talk to some people there. 00:03:52.489 --> 00:03:56.549 And so I guess he's part of the, uh, the process going around, looking 00:03:56.550 --> 00:04:00.180 for places that, uh, he needs to drum up more support and, um. 00:04:01.035 --> 00:04:06.464 So my buddy missed by a narrow margin of getting elected in, but 00:04:06.515 --> 00:04:10.935 this reporter just did an absolute smear job on him a couple of times. 00:04:11.095 --> 00:04:14.304 And even after he missed it, the reporter comes in and makes, he's just 00:04:14.304 --> 00:04:16.874 like, it was, anyone can look it up. 00:04:16.885 --> 00:04:17.604 They can see it. 00:04:17.604 --> 00:04:19.314 It's pretty self evident for what it is. 00:04:19.474 --> 00:04:24.255 Um, Just making broad allegations and nothing of it's true. 00:04:24.735 --> 00:04:28.675 And so my buddy is sitting there and he's, you know, pretty, pretty upset about 00:04:28.675 --> 00:04:30.124 this, but he didn't do anything about it. 00:04:30.124 --> 00:04:32.844 And he probably had grounds to do something about it, but 00:04:33.315 --> 00:04:36.164 he's of the mindset that the universe will unfold as it should. 00:04:36.245 --> 00:04:36.455 Yeah. 00:04:36.485 --> 00:04:38.035 Well, Pierre is coming up. 00:04:38.194 --> 00:04:42.215 And so he's like, well, just, you know, Pierre got to let you know 00:04:42.245 --> 00:04:47.005 through, through your, uh, people to you, uh, there is a reporter up 00:04:47.005 --> 00:04:48.995 here who's not going to be friendly. 00:04:49.124 --> 00:04:53.250 Um, And, uh, here's what happened to me, you know, just, you know, 00:04:54.500 --> 00:04:55.790 comport yourself accordingly. 00:04:55.810 --> 00:04:58.560 Just here's a bit of a, bit of a heads up anyways. 00:04:58.570 --> 00:05:02.459 So Pierre comes up, does his thing, and I don't know if it's common practice or 00:05:02.460 --> 00:05:06.549 not, but it was because my buddy gave him the, the specific heads up on this event, 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:11.219 but they made sure to have their cameras rolling as this guy, the reporter came 00:05:11.219 --> 00:05:13.450 in to do his, uh, interview with him. 00:05:13.450 --> 00:05:18.405 And he starts going down the similar kind of Poor reporting tactic. 00:05:18.435 --> 00:05:18.745 Right. 00:05:18.775 --> 00:05:21.905 And, uh, there's Pierre in a vineyard chewing on an 00:05:21.905 --> 00:05:22.185 David Macdonald: apple. 00:05:22.185 --> 00:05:22.794 Oh, okay. 00:05:22.794 --> 00:05:23.965 That, that's the famous interview. 00:05:24.474 --> 00:05:25.365 The famous interview. 00:05:25.365 --> 00:05:26.554 Travis Bader: How do you like them apples? 00:05:26.664 --> 00:05:28.984 And, uh, so anyways, my buddy's like. 00:05:30.090 --> 00:05:30.950 It's true. 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:31.830 I didn't do anything. 00:05:31.830 --> 00:05:33.370 The universe correspondence corrected. 00:05:33.410 --> 00:05:35.550 It came about this guy's name is mud. 00:05:35.550 --> 00:05:37.350 Now everyone can see him for what he is. 00:05:37.830 --> 00:05:39.759 And it's, uh, it is interesting. 00:05:39.760 --> 00:05:40.260 It's nice. 00:05:40.280 --> 00:05:43.920 What goes around comes around in a way that's, I guess, positive and 00:05:44.200 --> 00:05:44.640 David Macdonald: yeah. 00:05:44.780 --> 00:05:49.080 Well, I mean, and I've, I've been in interviews with media before where, 00:05:49.710 --> 00:05:52.620 you know, generally they're, you know, generally they are respectful or something 00:05:52.620 --> 00:05:54.989 like that, especially when we're talking about, and whenever there was an incident 00:05:54.989 --> 00:05:58.570 that occurred for, you know, before we pulled out of Afghanistan or when we had 00:05:58.570 --> 00:06:02.389 troops in Iraq, for whatever reason, when, especially when I was with the charity, I 00:06:02.499 --> 00:06:05.930 was like, I'm the number one call list for let's call this guy and get his opinion 00:06:06.190 --> 00:06:07.330 on what happened or something like that. 00:06:07.340 --> 00:06:08.700 And, um. 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:12.520 And I was always kind of like, well, I'm not saying anything until, obviously 00:06:12.520 --> 00:06:14.000 until it's been cleared by the army. 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:16.210 I'm still in the army at this point for a fair amount of it. 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.710 And I got to, you know, cause mainly because I didn't want to say 00:06:19.710 --> 00:06:22.909 anything or speak out of turn before the families had been notified or 00:06:22.909 --> 00:06:25.250 anything, it has to be done that way. 00:06:25.250 --> 00:06:28.880 I'm, you know, that's important, but I've, yeah, I've sat interviews 00:06:28.880 --> 00:06:34.430 before where they, the reporter clearly wanted to go a certain Yeah, 00:06:34.610 --> 00:06:36.390 and I just would not give it to them. 00:06:37.490 --> 00:06:40.849 And those are always the interviews I found that surprisingly, they 00:06:40.849 --> 00:06:41.980 never aired at six o'clock. 00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:43.979 They were just kind of like, yeah, we're going to quash that story. 00:06:43.979 --> 00:06:46.159 Cause they just wouldn't, he just wouldn't give us, we'll be 00:06:46.159 --> 00:06:47.409 one, you know, him to say it. 00:06:47.409 --> 00:06:50.599 And, uh, we're all trained in the army with media awareness. 00:06:51.059 --> 00:06:56.450 Um, but, uh, I was lucky enough that I also had some added experience 00:06:56.890 --> 00:06:59.094 and I had some, I, I have, I have. 00:06:59.625 --> 00:07:04.515 I had some previous, uh, little, you know, I pulled a doozy here or there, um, 00:07:04.985 --> 00:07:09.745 in past interviews, I, I, uh, I got in a little bit of trouble with my army unit 00:07:09.755 --> 00:07:16.005 for the public affairs in Ottawa because after the, uh, uh, after the attack that 00:07:16.005 --> 00:07:19.595 happened in, uh, at parliament, uh, where the, uh, Nathan Cirillo, unfortunately 00:07:19.595 --> 00:07:25.355 was killed, uh, again, I found myself in front of a camera with the CBC and global, 00:07:25.465 --> 00:07:27.495 and I think it was the global interview. 00:07:27.495 --> 00:07:30.265 They caught me, I was at work, I was working at the TD, TD bank at the 00:07:30.265 --> 00:07:31.405 time, actually, or something like that. 00:07:31.415 --> 00:07:35.955 And, uh, they, I was a little emotional because just everything was going on and, 00:07:35.955 --> 00:07:40.435 uh, I think I probably called out ISIS to, this is my address, this is my home. 00:07:40.435 --> 00:07:42.815 You're feel free to come, you know, and talk to me anytime 00:07:42.815 --> 00:07:43.725 you want or something like that. 00:07:43.755 --> 00:07:45.215 And got a little bit of trouble for that. 00:07:45.225 --> 00:07:47.389 But, uh, at the same time, you know. 00:07:48.020 --> 00:07:48.530 , it's already out there. 00:07:48.534 --> 00:07:49.070 What are you gonna do? 00:07:49.250 --> 00:07:52.909 But, uh, yeah, but, but you know what I did? 00:07:52.909 --> 00:07:53.480 They hear that? 00:07:53.570 --> 00:07:54.080 Yeah, they did. 00:07:54.230 --> 00:07:57.980 And really, I, I became known and amongst the Army units in Toronto, 00:07:57.980 --> 00:08:00.375 the guy that called out Isis, that, that told 'em exactly where I live. 00:08:00.375 --> 00:08:00.775 Good for you. 00:08:00.780 --> 00:08:01.730 And come join you. 00:08:01.730 --> 00:08:03.140 Feel free to come by whenever you want. 00:08:03.140 --> 00:08:03.230 Yeah. 00:08:03.260 --> 00:08:03.469 Maybe 00:08:03.469 --> 00:08:04.159 Travis Bader: come by at night. 00:08:04.159 --> 00:08:06.080 Maybe they feel a little braver, but 00:08:06.080 --> 00:08:09.220 David Macdonald: all means, but yeah, you learn that, you know, you 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:11.890 can't let em, everyone let emotion get into it the exact same way that 00:08:11.890 --> 00:08:13.660 interview that, uh, that Pierre did. 00:08:13.660 --> 00:08:15.010 It's, it's not about, that's about. 00:08:15.455 --> 00:08:18.155 You know, stay in the point of your, your, your message or anything like that. 00:08:18.155 --> 00:08:21.315 And, and being respectful, most important of all or anything like that. 00:08:21.315 --> 00:08:23.355 I think that's really the key factor there. 00:08:23.365 --> 00:08:26.575 And even if the reporter clearly, it doesn't really want to be, or 00:08:26.575 --> 00:08:29.355 want you in a certain way, you kind of have to keep on message. 00:08:29.355 --> 00:08:29.554 Right. 00:08:29.554 --> 00:08:29.804 So. 00:08:30.514 --> 00:08:34.395 Travis Bader: I remember, you know, oftentimes I'll get phone calls from, from 00:08:34.395 --> 00:08:39.055 media cause I've been in media in the past and they want an opinion on something and. 00:08:39.585 --> 00:08:46.885 Uh, I think the first one I did with CBC was, I was in my twenties and, um, man, 00:08:47.075 --> 00:08:49.054 cameras were on, the reporter was there. 00:08:49.054 --> 00:08:53.735 They're I'm talking about everything I know, which is well within my wheelhouse. 00:08:53.804 --> 00:08:55.544 And then he asks me a question. 00:08:55.545 --> 00:08:56.524 I forget what it was. 00:08:57.405 --> 00:08:58.575 I had no clue what the answer is. 00:08:58.575 --> 00:09:00.945 And the correct answer should have been, I don't know. 00:09:01.065 --> 00:09:01.385 Yeah. 00:09:01.495 --> 00:09:01.835 Right. 00:09:01.895 --> 00:09:03.365 But the cameras are on, you're up there. 00:09:03.365 --> 00:09:04.695 I'm like, well, it could be. 00:09:04.695 --> 00:09:06.104 And I was sitting here speculating. 00:09:06.105 --> 00:09:10.415 And I think a lot of times we can be our own worst enemies when we do that. 00:09:10.524 --> 00:09:14.875 You having media training with the military, I think is fantastic. 00:09:14.925 --> 00:09:19.705 I think is, uh, let's say firearms owners or hunters or, uh, people who are going 00:09:19.705 --> 00:09:24.125 to be talking to the media should at least get on Google and look up or AI. 00:09:24.995 --> 00:09:26.025 Hey, well, how should I. 00:09:26.314 --> 00:09:27.015 Approach this. 00:09:27.045 --> 00:09:27.995 Cause it's a business deal. 00:09:27.995 --> 00:09:28.635 It's a transaction. 00:09:28.665 --> 00:09:29.194 They want something. 00:09:29.855 --> 00:09:30.175 Yeah. 00:09:30.425 --> 00:09:34.795 And it's just, I found a friend of mine. 00:09:34.795 --> 00:09:39.394 He's in, um, he works for the, uh, provincial government and he says, you 00:09:39.395 --> 00:09:41.084 know, the whole thing is a business deal. 00:09:41.504 --> 00:09:42.694 Uh, ask him ahead of time. 00:09:42.714 --> 00:09:43.874 What is it you're trying to achieve? 00:09:43.874 --> 00:09:44.735 What would you like to see? 00:09:44.794 --> 00:09:46.159 And if it doesn't align with yours. 00:09:46.520 --> 00:09:46.939 That's easy. 00:09:46.939 --> 00:09:48.339 It's an easy answer for you, right? 00:09:48.370 --> 00:09:48.709 You're out. 00:09:48.829 --> 00:09:49.150 Yeah. 00:09:49.770 --> 00:09:52.060 David Macdonald: But yeah, as you said, I mean, the best thing you do is say, 00:09:52.060 --> 00:09:55.540 I'm sorry, I don't know that answer, but you can, I'll refer you to this person. 00:09:55.540 --> 00:10:00.350 They may be able to, you know, um, and I don't know what it is about being 00:10:00.350 --> 00:10:03.039 in the army whenever there's a report around, they always seem to catch you. 00:10:04.350 --> 00:10:06.230 When you're in the, when you're coming out of the field, right after like 00:10:06.230 --> 00:10:10.540 just a bad drive of a exercise or a training event and first time, actually 00:10:10.540 --> 00:10:13.390 the first time I ever got in any media event whatsoever, it was actually, I 00:10:13.390 --> 00:10:15.230 got into a stars and stripes article. 00:10:15.410 --> 00:10:15.890 Okay. 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:19.789 Uh, I was down in, we were down in Texas doing some cross training 00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:24.599 and, uh, we were getting ready to go overseas on my first tour and it was, 00:10:24.599 --> 00:10:28.370 uh, It just happened to be a Stars and Stripes reporter reporting that, 00:10:28.520 --> 00:10:30.070 you know, there's Canadians down here. 00:10:30.070 --> 00:10:32.990 What if, I guess it was big news that, you know, we were down there 00:10:32.990 --> 00:10:36.070 and we were actually, America finally realized that, you know, Canada had 00:10:36.070 --> 00:10:39.550 deployed, was deploying troops with Americans into Afghanistan like that. 00:10:39.550 --> 00:10:43.489 So, uh, uh, so they tried to interview a couple of us and it was well 00:10:43.490 --> 00:10:46.379 before the public affairs officer could get out to the, you know, to 00:10:46.379 --> 00:10:48.139 the desert range where we were at. 00:10:48.139 --> 00:10:52.060 And we had just been hiking for up in the mountains around the El Paso area 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:56.895 for probably You know, eight hours we're coming off the mountain range and that's 00:10:56.895 --> 00:11:01.405 when the reporter was in my face and I'm, it was handled well, but yeah, it was just 00:11:01.405 --> 00:11:04.095 like, you know, of course you're catching us all at the worst time possible. 00:11:04.095 --> 00:11:06.845 At the time I was like a young corporal, just, I got my stripes 00:11:06.845 --> 00:11:08.095 and it was just like, it. 00:11:09.095 --> 00:11:11.555 Looking back now, I'm like, yeah, I could have done better at that 00:11:11.555 --> 00:11:13.575 interview, but what are you going to do? 00:11:13.595 --> 00:11:13.845 Right. 00:11:14.345 --> 00:11:14.825 It's a learning 00:11:14.825 --> 00:11:15.235 Travis Bader: experience. 00:11:15.535 --> 00:11:16.775 As long as we treat it like that. 00:11:16.795 --> 00:11:19.405 I mean, there's all these things like late at night, you'll wake up. 00:11:19.405 --> 00:11:20.225 I'm like, I should have said that. 00:11:20.225 --> 00:11:21.054 I should have done that. 00:11:21.055 --> 00:11:21.345 Right. 00:11:21.374 --> 00:11:21.614 David Macdonald: And. 00:11:21.685 --> 00:11:22.945 Oh, I probably shouldn't have said that. 00:11:23.744 --> 00:11:24.404 Travis Bader: Probably shouldn't have. 00:11:24.615 --> 00:11:25.445 Those are the worst. 00:11:25.445 --> 00:11:25.495 Right. 00:11:26.375 --> 00:11:30.185 Um, but as long as we can look at it as a learning experience 00:11:30.185 --> 00:11:31.751 and actually learn from it. 00:11:31.751 --> 00:11:32.064 Yeah. 00:11:33.035 --> 00:11:35.954 That's kind of how I get over kicking myself in the butt too hard. 00:11:36.145 --> 00:11:38.704 David Macdonald: And that's really anything in life, you know, like 00:11:38.954 --> 00:11:42.444 I've, I've made a lot of mistakes and I'm sure we'll get into some on the 00:11:42.445 --> 00:11:43.675 podcast today or something like that. 00:11:43.735 --> 00:11:48.034 And, uh, but I said, as long as it's, if you learn something from it, you know, 00:11:48.044 --> 00:11:49.904 it's not really truly a failure yet. 00:11:51.175 --> 00:11:51.485 Well, 00:11:51.535 --> 00:11:54.435 Travis Bader: you know, yeah, we're talking a little bit off air here 00:11:54.735 --> 00:11:59.525 about, um, I think I use Brad Brooks as an example and, uh, Brad, he owns 00:11:59.525 --> 00:12:03.284 our galley and he's makes tents and trekking poles and he's a climber 00:12:03.284 --> 00:12:05.994 and he makes this lightweight gear and it's fantastic hunting gear. 00:12:05.994 --> 00:12:10.265 And my first podcast I did with him, I'm researching all the gear 00:12:10.355 --> 00:12:12.395 because I figured we're going to want to talk about gear and everyone's 00:12:12.395 --> 00:12:13.475 going to want to hear about gear. 00:12:13.475 --> 00:12:18.034 And he, I get ready to record and he says, okay, Travis, this is your podcast. 00:12:18.045 --> 00:12:21.844 You do what you want, but I'm going to If you don't mind, I'm so sick 00:12:21.849 --> 00:12:23.224 and tired of talking about gear 00:12:24.189 --> 00:12:26.224 Can, can we talk about the passion of the hunt? 00:12:26.224 --> 00:12:26.344 Yeah. 00:12:26.344 --> 00:12:26.645 Yeah. 00:12:27.395 --> 00:12:30.124 And, and that was what he was passionate about at the time. 00:12:30.130 --> 00:12:31.805 And so that was a big learning thing for me. 00:12:32.015 --> 00:12:33.814 What is a person passionate about at the time? 00:12:33.814 --> 00:12:38.165 Now you've, like you're saying before your story, you've told 00:12:38.165 --> 00:12:39.905 it a fair number of times. 00:12:39.905 --> 00:12:41.074 It's an important story. 00:12:41.074 --> 00:12:42.604 It's a, it's a good story. 00:12:42.874 --> 00:12:45.035 Love to hear it on the podcast, but if it's not something 00:12:45.035 --> 00:12:46.145 that you're passionate about. 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:47.969 We can talk about other things too. 00:12:48.640 --> 00:12:51.829 David Macdonald: Uh, no, you know what, I I'm, I'm happy sharing my story. 00:12:51.920 --> 00:12:57.050 Um, I think it's an, it's an important, it's definitely an important, you know, 00:12:57.079 --> 00:13:03.235 uh, It's an important to show you kind of how I progressed to where I am now or 00:13:03.235 --> 00:13:06.414 something like that, and what also still the challenges that face, you know, that 00:13:06.415 --> 00:13:11.204 I face on a daily basis today, I think it's really important that now I, you 00:13:11.204 --> 00:13:14.234 know, I'll say this ahead of time, I've, I've also, I've, I've seen some of your 00:13:14.235 --> 00:13:16.964 podcasts, I've seen some of the people on it, uh, just recently this morning, 00:13:16.964 --> 00:13:21.035 I was watching the one officer down with the RCMP officer and it's funny. 00:13:21.035 --> 00:13:24.735 It was actually giving me kind of chills, but his story is no different from, 00:13:24.735 --> 00:13:29.445 uh, In terms of, you know, what he, not what the trauma that he experiences and 00:13:29.445 --> 00:13:33.135 the reason and the thing that caused it, but all the things that came after. 00:13:33.135 --> 00:13:34.425 I'm like, yep, I did all that. 00:13:36.215 --> 00:13:36.925 It's a cycle. 00:13:36.955 --> 00:13:39.015 It's the same kind of thing that happens to every single person. 00:13:39.015 --> 00:13:40.955 I was like, dad, it happens at different times in different 00:13:40.965 --> 00:13:42.284 ways and things like that. 00:13:42.285 --> 00:13:45.675 But I was just like, yeah, that all sounds kind of familiar. 00:13:45.695 --> 00:13:49.165 Uh, the destructive pattern, you kind of go down and then pulling yourself 00:13:49.165 --> 00:13:52.805 back and something occurred or some sort of incident occurred that. 00:13:53.665 --> 00:13:56.275 Allows you to kind of be like, okay, I got to stop doing what I'm doing. 00:13:56.275 --> 00:13:57.565 And I got to get my head straight on. 00:13:58.155 --> 00:14:01.924 Uh, but I know I'm happy to share, uh, parts of my story. 00:14:01.924 --> 00:14:04.044 I'm happy to share, you know, the whole thing, as you mentioned. 00:14:04.045 --> 00:14:07.825 So when I was getting into the veterans help space, I was 00:14:07.825 --> 00:14:09.345 extremely passionate about it. 00:14:09.494 --> 00:14:14.360 Um, uh, I realized that, uh, I wasn't alone, you know, for a long 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:15.620 time there, I felt completely alone. 00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:17.400 I thought, you know, they'd given us all the briefings. 00:14:17.400 --> 00:14:21.340 I had time for it to where you could experience this and PTSD is a real thing. 00:14:21.340 --> 00:14:25.220 At this point it was 2007 and it was good enough that they were like, 00:14:25.550 --> 00:14:26.499 oh yeah, this could all happen. 00:14:26.530 --> 00:14:28.749 But then again, when you look back, I'm like, yeah, that wasn't, that 00:14:28.750 --> 00:14:30.570 was a half hour lecture we had. 00:14:34.660 --> 00:14:37.860 And it was happening at like two o'clock in the afternoon on a Friday. 00:14:37.860 --> 00:14:39.950 And we're like, when are we getting out of here so we can go home? 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:42.509 Like, like you weren't really, you weren't paying attention, right? 00:14:42.510 --> 00:14:47.639 So, uh, and you know, when I've deployed the first time, 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:49.089 I think I was 23 years old. 00:14:49.719 --> 00:14:50.990 Maybe, maybe 22. 00:14:53.710 --> 00:14:54.840 You're invincible, right? 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.650 You're, you're, you're not, you're not worried about, I remember when I was 00:14:57.680 --> 00:14:57.870 Travis Bader: 22. 00:14:58.870 --> 00:15:00.420 David Macdonald: Yeah, you're, you're, you're not worried about 00:15:00.449 --> 00:15:03.490 all the mental trauma that your tour could cause or anything like that. 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:06.310 You're all, you're concerned about, you're not even really concerned about dying. 00:15:06.310 --> 00:15:07.689 I, I wasn't actually concerned. 00:15:07.750 --> 00:15:11.689 The only time I actually at all thought about, oh crap, I actually might die. 00:15:11.699 --> 00:15:13.930 I'm sorry if I, I don't know if I can swear on this or anything like that. 00:15:13.949 --> 00:15:18.430 But if it comes out, if it comes out, I 15 years in the infantry, man, it, it, it 00:15:18.430 --> 00:15:22.530 almost happens, I came out to catch myself now with my son, because I'm like, he's 00:15:22.530 --> 00:15:25.230 going to say something when he stays at daycare and I'm going to get in trouble. 00:15:26.565 --> 00:15:30.495 But, uh, but yeah, you're not thinking of the only time I thought at all that, 00:15:30.515 --> 00:15:33.585 oh crap, I actually might die here was actually the plane ride into Afghanistan. 00:15:33.775 --> 00:15:34.295 That's it, eh? 00:15:34.345 --> 00:15:34.565 Yeah. 00:15:35.104 --> 00:15:37.915 Up until that point, I was just like the worst fear I had and the worst 00:15:37.915 --> 00:15:41.205 fear I had onto her was I may do something that may kill one of my 00:15:41.654 --> 00:15:43.414 buddies, one of my platoon mates. 00:15:43.974 --> 00:15:46.164 I may not see something, I may miss something or anything like that. 00:15:46.164 --> 00:15:47.294 That's what I was concerned about. 00:15:48.354 --> 00:15:51.994 You weren't concerned about, you know, every time you left the wire. 00:15:53.219 --> 00:15:53.920 You're rolling out. 00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:54.050 Yeah. 00:15:54.050 --> 00:15:55.509 You said I had a little ritual. 00:15:55.509 --> 00:15:58.959 I said a little, I'm not really a religious person, uh. 00:15:59.269 --> 00:16:00.560 There are no atheists and foxholes. 00:16:00.599 --> 00:16:00.989 Yeah. 00:16:00.990 --> 00:16:01.319 Yeah. 00:16:01.319 --> 00:16:02.509 But I said a little prayer to God. 00:16:02.509 --> 00:16:03.219 I'd be like, bring me back. 00:16:03.229 --> 00:16:05.799 And it always seemed to work until it, until it didn't. 00:16:05.809 --> 00:16:09.420 But, uh, but there was a little, you know, moment there, but that was it. 00:16:09.420 --> 00:16:10.829 And then it was just, okay, let's go. 00:16:10.889 --> 00:16:11.569 It's mission time. 00:16:11.829 --> 00:16:14.099 And, uh. 00:16:14.255 --> 00:16:19.405 So when you're, when it actually does happen and the incident occurs, 00:16:19.465 --> 00:16:23.115 and then you start having all these challenges at home, you know, both 00:16:23.115 --> 00:16:26.664 physically, but also mentally, it, you just feel completely alone. 00:16:26.665 --> 00:16:30.025 You don't, you don't remember the lecture you had, you know, a year 00:16:30.025 --> 00:16:32.625 or two ago or like that, then this could, this could happen to you. 00:16:33.505 --> 00:16:36.855 And, uh, so when you finally. 00:16:37.305 --> 00:16:37.505 What do 00:16:37.505 --> 00:16:38.645 Travis Bader: you feel triggered at? 00:16:38.645 --> 00:16:39.715 What do you feel is a, uh. 00:16:41.005 --> 00:16:45.355 . David Macdonald: So in initially, um, and I, I, when I talk to school kids, 00:16:45.415 --> 00:16:48.535 'cause I still do occasionally have school, uh, I, I like doing, going out 00:16:48.535 --> 00:16:51.805 and talking to, you know, both school, all age groups from like, you know, public 00:16:51.805 --> 00:16:52.975 school all the way up to high school. 00:16:53.965 --> 00:16:58.525 Uh, the initial trigger for me and as I like to, and I say this because 00:16:58.795 --> 00:17:02.725 we'll get to that in a second, but I'd like to say it, is that it was a, uh. 00:17:03.645 --> 00:17:06.464 It was firecrackers initially, totally makes sense. 00:17:06.825 --> 00:17:08.055 Of course, explosions. 00:17:08.335 --> 00:17:11.895 My job overseas was, I had, let me preface, I had one, probably one of 00:17:11.895 --> 00:17:14.855 the best jobs you could have, I know people have probably said it before. 00:17:15.485 --> 00:17:18.209 As a infantry reservist deploying, I had a 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.069 I'd probably one of the best jobs you could have overseas. 00:17:23.190 --> 00:17:23.500 Okay. 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:24.690 I was force protection. 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:25.260 Okay. 00:17:25.410 --> 00:17:29.060 So we went out and, and did all this, all the security for all the supply convoys. 00:17:29.429 --> 00:17:35.270 So I got to live at CAF with all the luxuries of CAF, but I got to 00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:38.140 go outside the wire and go out to the fobs and go out to all the cops 00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:40.379 and the outposts every, every day. 00:17:40.700 --> 00:17:41.149 Hmm. 00:17:41.495 --> 00:17:45.015 So I got to see the countryside more than even the infantry guys did, cause 00:17:45.015 --> 00:17:46.285 they had their little areas of operation. 00:17:46.295 --> 00:17:49.255 I got to go to every single area operation they had from all the way 00:17:49.255 --> 00:17:50.735 up in the North, down to the South. 00:17:51.295 --> 00:17:54.845 We even went off into the furthest kind of US base where we had a 00:17:54.845 --> 00:17:56.405 Canadian artillery station at. 00:17:57.285 --> 00:17:59.825 And, uh, so you got to see a lot of the country. 00:18:00.675 --> 00:18:00.825 You. 00:18:01.485 --> 00:18:04.264 You know, we had a lot of potential to get into contacts. 00:18:04.344 --> 00:18:08.915 Um, we didn't really see too many, which we're, you know, good or bad, 00:18:09.555 --> 00:18:10.765 depending on who you talk to, but. 00:18:11.175 --> 00:18:12.575 Travis Bader: And that, and that builds too, right? 00:18:12.814 --> 00:18:14.365 Every time you go, is it going to happen? 00:18:14.365 --> 00:18:14.665 Is it going to 00:18:14.665 --> 00:18:15.005 David Macdonald: happen? 00:18:15.024 --> 00:18:15.685 Oh, absolutely. 00:18:15.685 --> 00:18:16.784 Like the, the stress. 00:18:17.225 --> 00:18:20.715 And, you know, on that was, and then my, you know, and then I like to 00:18:20.715 --> 00:18:23.525 say like my job was, was I had fun. 00:18:23.525 --> 00:18:27.134 I thought I was, I had, I had the greatest job within force protection is that I 00:18:27.135 --> 00:18:28.894 was just, that was a rifleman dismount. 00:18:28.895 --> 00:18:29.875 So I wasn't a driver. 00:18:29.875 --> 00:18:30.575 I wasn't a gunner. 00:18:30.884 --> 00:18:34.354 I was a backup gunner for the vehicle, but my job was to get driven around. 00:18:34.535 --> 00:18:38.185 Well, you get driven around, but it, and I, I tell this to my civilian 00:18:38.185 --> 00:18:41.325 friends and they look at me like, I'm absolutely just, you know, are you nuts? 00:18:41.335 --> 00:18:41.575 Like. 00:18:42.325 --> 00:18:46.525 Uh, because when I say I was a human bomb detector, that's literally 00:18:46.545 --> 00:18:48.795 the best description I could give you is what my job was, is 00:18:48.795 --> 00:18:50.645 that we're driving down the road. 00:18:50.645 --> 00:18:53.985 We were in these, the, the RG 31 Nile, as they had got for us at this point. 00:18:54.985 --> 00:18:59.254 So a vehicle specifically designed to roll over an ID and have a blow 00:18:59.254 --> 00:19:01.594 up underneath it or anything like that for survivability of the crew. 00:19:02.725 --> 00:19:03.265 But. 00:19:03.915 --> 00:19:07.245 You know, they cost more than the average, than the, than my life does or like that. 00:19:07.245 --> 00:19:07.665 So, 00:19:07.665 --> 00:19:09.864 Travis Bader: uh, well, I guess who's, depending 00:19:09.864 --> 00:19:12.735 David Macdonald: on who's doing it, yeah, but, uh, but anyway, 00:19:12.735 --> 00:19:13.675 so we're driving down the road. 00:19:13.914 --> 00:19:16.955 My job was to get out of the perfectly good mine resistant vehicle. 00:19:16.994 --> 00:19:19.884 If we had a little, if we had any sort of, you know, idea that 00:19:19.894 --> 00:19:21.624 there might be something up, up, you know, in front of it. 00:19:22.450 --> 00:19:26.100 And go walk with my team and do vehicle checkpoints, uh, well, 00:19:26.100 --> 00:19:29.630 the vulnerable checkpoints and search for IEDs ahead of it. 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:31.880 So the convoys are back here. 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.490 We're about, you know, up to, you know, a kilometer in front of it, 00:19:34.860 --> 00:19:39.730 searching around, uh, looking for, you know, anything that looks at a place. 00:19:39.740 --> 00:19:42.010 And I remember when I first landed in theater, they were like, 00:19:42.010 --> 00:19:43.410 Oh, you look for like garbage. 00:19:43.990 --> 00:19:44.100 Okay. 00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:45.510 Look for, look, look for garbage. 00:19:45.520 --> 00:19:49.530 Cause that's a good place to put IEDs and look for yellow containers. 00:19:51.330 --> 00:19:53.090 Cause that's what they like using homemade explosives with. 00:19:53.110 --> 00:19:54.690 And then you actually get outside the wire and you're 00:19:54.690 --> 00:19:56.790 like, there's garbage everywhere. 00:19:57.649 --> 00:20:00.860 And the main thing they use to transport everything in this country 00:20:00.879 --> 00:20:02.450 is yellow plastic containers. 00:20:02.459 --> 00:20:03.260 So I'm like, great. 00:20:03.270 --> 00:20:07.820 This is look, look, look for, look for low riding Toyotas and Corollas. 00:20:07.899 --> 00:20:11.800 You're like, okay, well what the taxis or every, like, you know, like all of them. 00:20:11.800 --> 00:20:15.100 Cause all of them are, you know, from the, you know, 1980s or seventies and all 00:20:15.100 --> 00:20:16.639 the, all the suspension is shot on them. 00:20:16.639 --> 00:20:17.804 So you're like, yeah, that's a good idea. 00:20:18.124 --> 00:20:18.544 Okay. 00:20:18.544 --> 00:20:20.024 So this is going to be an easy job, right? 00:20:20.054 --> 00:20:20.794 Right, right. 00:20:20.894 --> 00:20:22.534 But you got a brilliant track. 00:20:22.544 --> 00:20:24.965 You really felt you were finally kind of like, you know, you felt that 00:20:24.965 --> 00:20:26.185 you're doing something over there. 00:20:27.135 --> 00:20:30.004 And we went out ahead of the mine clearance crews that went out to 00:20:30.015 --> 00:20:31.075 the road clearance every morning. 00:20:31.075 --> 00:20:32.164 So we were out ahead of that. 00:20:32.864 --> 00:20:34.944 So the time they rolled, we already cleared the road 00:20:34.944 --> 00:20:35.874 by the time they rolled up. 00:20:37.554 --> 00:20:40.114 Um, and they're like, Oh, you had metal detectors. 00:20:40.114 --> 00:20:41.094 You had dogs with it. 00:20:41.094 --> 00:20:42.165 No, we don't have any of that. 00:20:42.175 --> 00:20:45.095 It was literally step, step, step, nothing blew up. 00:20:45.095 --> 00:20:48.945 I guess we can keep going or sticking, sticking your head inside culverts. 00:20:48.945 --> 00:20:52.265 And you know, your body looked with a flashlight to look for, you know, where 00:20:52.265 --> 00:20:55.994 it was in there now that we knew how to defuse it, our job was just to find it. 00:20:56.164 --> 00:20:56.904 Right. 00:20:57.115 --> 00:20:59.745 So, and if we found something, then you're calling the common 00:20:59.745 --> 00:21:01.785 engineers out and they're going to, you know, diffuse it for you. 00:21:01.785 --> 00:21:04.265 If you're lucky enough, you had might have an engineer with you that could do it. 00:21:04.285 --> 00:21:09.675 But, uh, but still, I, I thought it was the greatest job you could have. 00:21:09.675 --> 00:21:11.155 We weren't stuck in an outpost. 00:21:13.315 --> 00:21:17.145 We got to do that thing and then come back and have a, you know, a pizza back at CAF. 00:21:17.145 --> 00:21:18.435 Well, he got good food. 00:21:18.435 --> 00:21:22.345 He got, and I think overall, we had the respect of a lot of the, 00:21:22.695 --> 00:21:24.985 you know, Red Force battalions that were out of the FOBs. 00:21:24.994 --> 00:21:27.975 Cause you know, we were still at least infantry doing the 00:21:27.975 --> 00:21:29.624 job, getting their supplies. 00:21:29.625 --> 00:21:33.115 We always made sure that if we're going out to like Spur, Wilson or 00:21:33.145 --> 00:21:35.895 Matt or, you know, or Frontenac or whatever it is, well, we're going to 00:21:36.065 --> 00:21:38.455 make sure we load up on pizzas for the boys and bring them out to the 00:21:38.455 --> 00:21:40.725 Merthlit It's the least we could do. 00:21:40.745 --> 00:21:41.105 Right. 00:21:41.795 --> 00:21:48.495 Um, but anyway, so the stress of that, you're not thinking 00:21:48.505 --> 00:21:49.785 of the time that's building up. 00:21:49.845 --> 00:21:50.265 Sure. 00:21:50.535 --> 00:21:51.235 There'd be a lot of stress. 00:21:51.255 --> 00:21:51.625 Oh yeah. 00:21:51.675 --> 00:21:51.995 Yeah. 00:21:52.154 --> 00:21:57.185 And you're, uh, You're just, you know, you're just doing this day in, day out, 00:21:57.425 --> 00:21:59.835 you know, and we were just counting, no, you're not going out every day. 00:21:59.835 --> 00:22:02.075 Cause we have a, you know, a platoon of guys. 00:22:02.075 --> 00:22:04.714 So a patrol would usually be around three vehicles. 00:22:04.715 --> 00:22:06.124 We have nine vehicles in the platoon. 00:22:06.125 --> 00:22:09.704 So sometimes you're back at CAF doing other stuff, VIP protection. 00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:14.100 Uh, POW protection, because you can't have a high value 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:16.790 Taliban prisoner at the hospital. 00:22:17.470 --> 00:22:19.889 Cause any of the Afghans that work there, sure, they're going to try 00:22:19.890 --> 00:22:20.750 to kill them or anything like that. 00:22:20.750 --> 00:22:23.300 So your job is to protect, but your own, you know, you're a 00:22:23.300 --> 00:22:24.190 little conflicted about too. 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:25.979 Cause you're like, this guy probably just tried to kill me. 00:22:25.979 --> 00:22:26.649 Not that long ago. 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:27.160 Yeah. 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:27.960 Travis Bader: Yeah. 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:29.730 That's a, a tough moral, 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:30.960 David Macdonald: ethical thing. 00:22:31.050 --> 00:22:32.002 It is what it is. 00:22:32.002 --> 00:22:32.324 But yeah. 00:22:32.625 --> 00:22:35.265 You would do escorts for the local Afghans that work on camp and 00:22:35.265 --> 00:22:38.595 things like that, or, and we were QRF for the, for the calf as well. 00:22:38.595 --> 00:22:41.715 So if the base ever came under attack, it did it on our tour. 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:46.035 But in a later tour in 20 20 10, it, it did, I wasn't there at the time. 00:22:46.125 --> 00:22:50.805 Um, but uh, I had a bunch of friends that were from my, actually my reserve 00:22:50.805 --> 00:22:52.185 unit that was over there at that time. 00:22:52.185 --> 00:22:54.195 And so they had to fight off an attack at calf, which. 00:22:55.275 --> 00:23:01.005 Sounds like, uh, but actually for all of us, we're like, Hey, to do something cool. 00:23:01.025 --> 00:23:04.344 Like, uh, again, it's the, it's a weird mentality, but like, you know, 00:23:04.345 --> 00:23:05.995 that's that's a soldier's mentality. 00:23:05.995 --> 00:23:06.235 Right. 00:23:06.235 --> 00:23:13.014 So, uh, but so anyway, fast forward, you know, You go from high speed unit 00:23:13.044 --> 00:23:15.465 doing that kind of work or anything like that, which, you know, some 00:23:15.465 --> 00:23:19.304 might, some may say it's not a high speed, you know, job, but it doesn't 00:23:19.304 --> 00:23:20.784 really matter in terms of this product. 00:23:20.784 --> 00:23:23.044 I felt like we were doing something really, really, 00:23:23.084 --> 00:23:24.274 you know, valuable and cool. 00:23:24.274 --> 00:23:28.004 And we were involved or, and we did a bunch of multinational operations as well 00:23:28.004 --> 00:23:31.625 with the Brits and the Aussies and things and, and like row Marine commandos and 00:23:31.625 --> 00:23:34.425 stuff like that, which, you know, you wouldn't think we'd be able to, right. 00:23:35.915 --> 00:23:38.155 And then you, it all comes to a screeching halt. 00:23:38.625 --> 00:23:39.095 What happened? 00:23:39.635 --> 00:23:40.004 So. 00:23:40.985 --> 00:23:44.385 I can't tell you the exact thing that happened that day, 00:23:44.845 --> 00:23:45.875 because I have no memory of it. 00:23:46.534 --> 00:23:46.725 Hmm. 00:23:47.355 --> 00:23:50.554 Uh, it was late in the tour. 00:23:51.655 --> 00:23:54.304 So our, our tour, we called it the never ending story. 00:23:54.675 --> 00:23:55.064 Okay. 00:23:55.770 --> 00:23:57.870 Tours for Canadians usually lasted six months long. 00:23:58.280 --> 00:23:59.790 Workup training usually was six months long. 00:23:59.820 --> 00:24:02.209 Our workup training was just over a year. 00:24:02.770 --> 00:24:06.319 Cause at this time in round 2007, the reg force had already been deployed 00:24:06.330 --> 00:24:10.089 to Afghanistan since 20, uh, 2002. 00:24:10.090 --> 00:24:12.649 You'd guys with multiple tours, they were just getting tired. 00:24:12.699 --> 00:24:16.439 They were releasing, they were getting out and there was a recruitment problem, 00:24:16.540 --> 00:24:19.389 even the same way it is now, but there was a recruitment problem at the time. 00:24:19.399 --> 00:24:22.069 And so they thought we have a great resource. 00:24:22.069 --> 00:24:23.800 We'll, we'll pull reservists up. 00:24:24.430 --> 00:24:27.420 And they'll fill backfill spots in the right force battalions. 00:24:27.810 --> 00:24:30.480 And we'll, and we were all on board because we're 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.410 getting, you know, extra pay. 00:24:32.590 --> 00:24:32.920 Sure. 00:24:32.930 --> 00:24:35.840 It was, you know, a good chance for us to work with the right force units. 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.700 That extra time, I really think actually set us up well. 00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:43.160 Cause it allowed us to really, really meld with them, but also gain their respect. 00:24:43.180 --> 00:24:47.870 Cause it, when we first landed, there wasn't a huge amount of, uh, 00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:52.720 uh, respect between, there was a professional comradery, you know, but. 00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:57.419 It was a little, yeah, the first couple of weeks were a little, 00:24:57.419 --> 00:25:02.919 uh, tough to, uh, to get through, but, uh, so anyway, so, uh, we, we 00:25:02.919 --> 00:25:04.210 deployed, we did our first six months. 00:25:04.220 --> 00:25:07.560 I didn't even get my HLTA until six and a half months into the tour. 00:25:08.990 --> 00:25:11.269 When we were getting, when we were thinking, okay, 00:25:11.269 --> 00:25:13.029 it's time for us to rip out. 00:25:13.719 --> 00:25:16.949 We were told, well, your, your replacement coming in, they're not ready yet. 00:25:17.399 --> 00:25:19.419 They've been deemed that they had need additional training in Canada. 00:25:20.344 --> 00:25:23.754 So you're all here, you've all been voluntold for, you're going to be here 00:25:23.754 --> 00:25:25.334 for an additional three to four months. 00:25:26.594 --> 00:25:27.145 We didn't care. 00:25:27.504 --> 00:25:27.804 Sure. 00:25:27.814 --> 00:25:28.644 We're like, great, cool. 00:25:28.725 --> 00:25:33.824 Second, second bar, you know, a bar on the tour, a metal and more pay for us. 00:25:34.225 --> 00:25:36.454 It was really, it came down to great more three months, additional 00:25:36.454 --> 00:25:38.475 pay, like with danger pay tax free. 00:25:38.624 --> 00:25:39.135 Hell yeah. 00:25:39.175 --> 00:25:43.445 Like we're, we're all young and the ones that aren't, they all have mortgages and 00:25:43.445 --> 00:25:46.024 they're like, I got to pay that off or I got a kid in college that, you know, 00:25:46.024 --> 00:25:53.010 like, so So went on my leave, came home, came back to, you know, went, came back 00:25:53.010 --> 00:25:54.050 into the theater or something like that. 00:25:54.050 --> 00:25:58.910 And I was there for maybe a month, um, went into orders that, that morning 00:25:59.420 --> 00:26:01.870 that we were going to go out and do the standard, what we called the milk 00:26:01.870 --> 00:26:07.160 run, which was a, a move of supply moved from what we call the CLP. 00:26:08.055 --> 00:26:14.214 Not the oil, I'm sure that was on one of the trucks, but we were going to move, uh, 00:26:14.215 --> 00:26:18.915 combat logistic patrols, we got a CLP and we're going to go from CAF to Mastamgarh. 00:26:18.915 --> 00:26:22.974 And I think it was to Wilson and possibly, um, went down to 00:26:22.974 --> 00:26:25.245 Spur, went and back one day run. 00:26:25.814 --> 00:26:27.605 Something we were doing, you know, we called the milk run. 00:26:27.605 --> 00:26:30.095 Cause it's something we, we did so often that it became kind 00:26:30.095 --> 00:26:31.695 of, it was through Kandar city. 00:26:32.385 --> 00:26:36.485 Uh, but through the Pantaway district center like that, which is a bit of a 00:26:36.485 --> 00:26:41.535 Taliban hotbed, but, and, uh, so we were going through more orders that morning. 00:26:42.655 --> 00:26:45.574 Uh, I was deemed the team medic actually, cause I was a, I was TCCC 00:26:45.575 --> 00:26:48.965 qualified and we didn't have any other medics going out with us that day. 00:26:48.965 --> 00:26:50.974 Medics were a hot commodity on my tour. 00:26:50.974 --> 00:26:52.995 They really didn't have, there wasn't enough of them to go around. 00:26:53.175 --> 00:26:56.405 So, so like, Oh, Max, Max, you're the team medic. 00:26:56.405 --> 00:26:57.205 I'm like, Oh, okay. 00:26:57.205 --> 00:26:57.415 Yeah. 00:26:57.465 --> 00:27:00.075 I was really on board with that. 00:27:00.445 --> 00:27:01.804 I like doing the medical stuff. 00:27:02.895 --> 00:27:07.525 And, uh, I probably the most experienced medic on, uh, outside of civilian 00:27:07.535 --> 00:27:09.505 world or anything like that, like when, because I'd been involved in 00:27:09.505 --> 00:27:12.005 a couple of mass casualty situations on the tour and things like that. 00:27:13.015 --> 00:27:16.575 Uh, so anyway, the last thing I remember is that rolling out 00:27:16.845 --> 00:27:18.765 outside the wire in my vehicle. 00:27:18.775 --> 00:27:20.774 We were lead vehicle out that night, that morning. 00:27:21.454 --> 00:27:24.595 Next thing I remember, I'm waking up three weeks later in a hospital in Germany. 00:27:26.530 --> 00:27:27.850 That's going to be an odd feeling. 00:27:27.860 --> 00:27:29.910 Oh, you're waking up another continent away. 00:27:30.310 --> 00:27:30.810 Yeah. 00:27:30.980 --> 00:27:33.119 In a clean, first of all, I knew it wasn't in Afghanistan anymore. 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:34.850 Cause I'm in a clean white room. 00:27:35.650 --> 00:27:36.644 When you're waking up, what were you thinking? 00:27:36.644 --> 00:27:37.470 Well, that didn't happen. 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:39.720 I've, you know, that no sand anywhere, no dirt. 00:27:39.810 --> 00:27:40.160 Right. 00:27:40.170 --> 00:27:40.410 Right. 00:27:40.580 --> 00:27:44.450 And I'm like, uh, okay, this is weird. 00:27:44.670 --> 00:27:45.070 Yeah. 00:27:45.750 --> 00:27:46.690 Travis Bader: What was it going through your head? 00:27:47.390 --> 00:27:50.660 David Macdonald: First thing through my head is honestly, it was, I, you know, 00:27:50.820 --> 00:27:52.180 did I have, are my legs still there? 00:27:52.220 --> 00:27:52.440 Hmm. 00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:53.034 Yeah. 00:27:53.745 --> 00:27:56.475 We had a kind of a growing, we had to be the kind of thing like, Oh, if you're, 00:27:56.485 --> 00:27:59.335 if you're sent to Germany, you've lost, you know, you've lost an appendage, 00:27:59.375 --> 00:28:02.215 like you, your leg arm was gone. 00:28:03.305 --> 00:28:06.834 So, uh, I remember the nurse came in and you know, they saw that 00:28:06.834 --> 00:28:07.935 I was awake and stuff like that. 00:28:07.935 --> 00:28:09.615 So they came in and they were trying to explain what was 00:28:09.615 --> 00:28:10.474 going on or something like that. 00:28:10.475 --> 00:28:10.575 And 00:28:10.575 --> 00:28:10.888 Travis Bader: they're like. 00:28:10.888 --> 00:28:12.514 So you woke up without anybody around you. 00:28:12.674 --> 00:28:12.984 No, yeah. 00:28:13.014 --> 00:28:13.734 Nothing, nobody around me. 00:28:13.734 --> 00:28:15.315 You just kind of start opening your eyes. 00:28:15.325 --> 00:28:15.905 Open my eyes up 00:28:15.905 --> 00:28:16.604 David Macdonald: and I'm like. 00:28:16.604 --> 00:28:17.304 Things are focusing. 00:28:17.304 --> 00:28:17.537 Yeah. 00:28:17.537 --> 00:28:19.637 And I'm like, well, hold on, where am I? 00:28:19.637 --> 00:28:19.870 Right. 00:28:19.870 --> 00:28:24.280 Nurse runs in and she's like, Oh, you know, You were, you 00:28:24.280 --> 00:28:25.360 were involved in an incident. 00:28:26.290 --> 00:28:31.040 You know, you're, you're okay, but you're, you're, you are hurt. 00:28:31.040 --> 00:28:31.830 You're in Germany. 00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:35.659 I'm like, Oh, once I heard Germany, I'm like, Oh, so I was 00:28:35.660 --> 00:28:38.279 like, you know, do I have my legs? 00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:39.959 She's like, yeah, yeah, sure. 00:28:40.019 --> 00:28:40.780 No, your legs are good. 00:28:40.780 --> 00:28:41.820 And I'm like, Oh, okay. 00:28:41.980 --> 00:28:43.240 Wait, do I have, do I have my arms? 00:28:43.810 --> 00:28:46.230 Cause I, at this point I'm on so much morphine. 00:28:46.230 --> 00:28:47.340 I can't feel anything below my neck. 00:28:48.325 --> 00:28:55.175 And being 23, rather than ask if I'm paralyzed or like that, I'm 00:28:55.175 --> 00:28:56.355 wondering about my legs, my arms. 00:28:56.695 --> 00:28:57.555 What's the third question? 00:28:57.565 --> 00:28:57.885 Yeah. 00:28:57.885 --> 00:28:59.095 You know what the third question is going to be? 00:28:59.095 --> 00:29:01.685 I asked like, you know, is everything still good down there? 00:29:02.265 --> 00:29:04.684 And she took a look and I thought she took way too long to tell me 00:29:04.685 --> 00:29:06.275 that she was like, yeah, everything's where it's supposed to be. 00:29:06.275 --> 00:29:07.375 I'm like, Oh, thank God. 00:29:07.384 --> 00:29:07.674 Okay. 00:29:08.540 --> 00:29:11.170 And, uh, so then it kind of, you know, over the next couple of days, 00:29:11.170 --> 00:29:13.370 they explained to me, no, like, you know, this is what's happened. 00:29:13.370 --> 00:29:15.700 You were involved in a, in a, in an accident. 00:29:15.710 --> 00:29:20.500 It was, uh, it wasn't the official report is that it wasn't a dude enemy action. 00:29:20.510 --> 00:29:21.209 It wasn't due to combat. 00:29:21.210 --> 00:29:22.610 It was a vehicle accident. 00:29:23.369 --> 00:29:30.460 A Afghan Corolla, uh, drove, try to drive into our vehicle and RV, our, 00:29:31.750 --> 00:29:33.010 we were going to go clear bridge. 00:29:33.040 --> 00:29:35.200 It'll be clear just outside of Canada, Canada, our city bridge. 00:29:36.555 --> 00:29:39.465 Uh, between calf and Kent and that was curtsy Canada, our city. 00:29:40.075 --> 00:29:44.235 Um, and we declared this bridge probably 90 times before or something like 00:29:44.235 --> 00:29:45.194 that, you know, something like that. 00:29:45.195 --> 00:29:45.375 Right. 00:29:45.395 --> 00:29:47.674 You know, and we were in the lead vehicle. 00:29:47.674 --> 00:29:50.914 We went to go clear the bridge ahead of it against the rest of the convoys. 00:29:50.914 --> 00:29:55.230 So we would drive across the entire thing and then set up a, you A security 00:29:55.230 --> 00:29:59.410 point on their side, somewhere between that area, between when we get to 00:29:59.410 --> 00:30:01.910 the other side of vehicle drove out and almost hit our vehicles. 00:30:01.910 --> 00:30:05.850 We swerved, but we were going so fast at this point, our vehicles are top heavy. 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:11.339 It started to roll and it just rolled and it didn't stop rolling 00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:12.570 for about like a hundred feet. 00:30:13.520 --> 00:30:17.360 So everything in the vehicle that's packed in the vehicle 00:30:17.360 --> 00:30:19.130 happens to be packed right near me. 00:30:21.595 --> 00:30:25.215 So everything, all the bags and everything is, even though they're secured, 00:30:25.215 --> 00:30:26.585 they're ripping out or like that. 00:30:26.615 --> 00:30:28.465 And it's just all falling on top of me. 00:30:28.465 --> 00:30:29.488 It's like a tumble dryer. 00:30:29.488 --> 00:30:29.897 Oh yeah. 00:30:29.897 --> 00:30:31.925 My machine gun slams me in the face. 00:30:32.255 --> 00:30:37.064 Um, apparently I hit my head into the back of the glass of the RG. 00:30:37.865 --> 00:30:41.065 With enough force to crack the glass and that's bulletproof resistant 00:30:41.075 --> 00:30:42.515 glass resistance of 50 cals. 00:30:42.545 --> 00:30:44.295 Now it will still crack if you shoot it. 00:30:44.295 --> 00:30:44.505 Right. 00:30:44.515 --> 00:30:44.865 Sure. 00:30:45.075 --> 00:30:47.955 So what exact force that was, who knows, but it was enough to crack 00:30:47.955 --> 00:30:49.455 the glass and flatten my helmet. 00:30:50.915 --> 00:30:55.514 Uh, and, uh, that led to me having a skull fracture that pretty much went from 00:30:55.515 --> 00:30:58.865 my back, my neck, all the way up to my front, my left orbital, orbital bone right 00:30:58.865 --> 00:31:04.445 here, which, you know, led to the coma and everything else that was going on here. 00:31:04.445 --> 00:31:04.935 It's like that. 00:31:04.965 --> 00:31:06.935 And so. 00:31:07.330 --> 00:31:12.330 Waking up in Germany, yeah, that was, and then, you know, it, it, hearing the, 00:31:12.540 --> 00:31:18.349 you know, getting the physical injuries out, but really, I think the more, the 00:31:18.349 --> 00:31:23.190 most traumatic part of that entire day was finding out that I was in Germany, 00:31:23.769 --> 00:31:27.690 my platoon was still in Afghanistan and they still had a month left of 00:31:27.690 --> 00:31:31.539 their tour and I wasn't going back. 00:31:31.540 --> 00:31:34.150 Like these, these are guys, you know, men and women that I'd been 00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:36.210 with for two years at this point. 00:31:38.045 --> 00:31:40.205 Yeah, they were closer to me than my family in most cases. 00:31:40.245 --> 00:31:40.835 And 00:31:42.095 --> 00:31:42.765 Travis Bader: that'd be tough. 00:31:43.015 --> 00:31:43.305 Yeah. 00:31:43.925 --> 00:31:45.984 What about the other people, the other occupants of the vehicle? 00:31:45.995 --> 00:31:46.805 David Macdonald: They got away. 00:31:46.885 --> 00:31:47.335 Okay. 00:31:47.595 --> 00:31:47.815 Yeah. 00:31:47.865 --> 00:31:51.344 Uh, it just happened to be that I just happened to be in the worst spot of the 00:31:51.345 --> 00:31:52.934 vehicle when this rolled over like that. 00:31:52.965 --> 00:31:57.245 And, uh, the driver got out, uh, the crew commander got out the back. 00:31:57.285 --> 00:32:00.145 My gunner hurt his back a bit, but he was, he managed to stay in theater, 00:32:00.175 --> 00:32:03.345 but I was just completely, you know. 00:32:03.540 --> 00:32:07.760 Yeah, there was no walking away from that. 00:32:07.760 --> 00:32:10.370 And now, um, I had bleeding in the brain. 00:32:11.150 --> 00:32:14.429 They, uh, I'd crushed every bone in my left hand or something like that. 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:16.889 It's looking pretty good today, but it's been 12 years now. 00:32:16.889 --> 00:32:20.599 And, um, you're right handed to begin with. 00:32:20.669 --> 00:32:21.359 I'm right handed to begin with. 00:32:21.360 --> 00:32:23.950 So I didn't have to learn to do anything with my other hand, which is good. 00:32:23.950 --> 00:32:28.750 But, um, yeah, I broke my, broke my pelvis, dislocated my left 00:32:28.750 --> 00:32:31.580 leg, had some spinal fractures. 00:32:31.730 --> 00:32:36.770 Um, Later in life, I find out, you know, during the incident, also severed 00:32:36.770 --> 00:32:41.280 a nerve in my, in my leg or like that, that controls, doesn't hurt, but it 00:32:41.280 --> 00:32:44.359 controls, uh, four of the five toes. 00:32:44.529 --> 00:32:45.560 So they just don't move. 00:32:45.560 --> 00:32:46.769 They don't move at all. 00:32:46.769 --> 00:32:49.449 And actually they, they just, they, they just operate independently and they kind 00:32:49.450 --> 00:32:51.160 of just stay close together like that. 00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:55.290 So it comes up, I guess, with some balance issues here or there, but 00:32:55.300 --> 00:32:56.380 it's just one of those things. 00:32:56.390 --> 00:32:57.260 You got a feeling there? 00:32:57.270 --> 00:32:58.950 Yeah, I got a feeling for the most part. 00:32:59.230 --> 00:32:59.430 Okay. 00:32:59.935 --> 00:33:01.945 But just, they just move as one. 00:33:02.005 --> 00:33:04.115 So it's almost like kind of like a flipper more than anything else. 00:33:04.145 --> 00:33:10.395 But, uh, then as you find your final things, you know, as you go on, but it, 00:33:11.544 --> 00:33:17.544 the, the bright side to it coming home, uh, and the physical injuries, despite 00:33:17.544 --> 00:33:24.975 them being as much as they were, it, you know, young and got to say super fit. 00:33:25.185 --> 00:33:27.314 There's nothing to do in Afghanistan other than. 00:33:27.730 --> 00:33:30.420 You know, play poker, work out, work out. 00:33:30.670 --> 00:33:32.450 I was working out twice a day over there like that. 00:33:32.450 --> 00:33:32.670 Right. 00:33:32.670 --> 00:33:35.680 And I'm at the point, you know, you're, you're almost Olympic level fitness. 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:38.899 So being that physically fit, you recover pretty quickly. 00:33:38.899 --> 00:33:39.729 It helps a lot. 00:33:40.420 --> 00:33:40.929 Uh, yeah. 00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:45.089 And that's, I'm learning today now that I'm 39, turn 40. 00:33:46.490 --> 00:33:49.060 Yeah, even though the workouts aren't as intense as they once were, you 00:33:49.060 --> 00:33:52.970 got to keep it up because it's, it's, the injuries don't stop and that, 00:33:53.080 --> 00:33:55.970 and they're starting to bring their ugly heads here and there from past. 00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:56.300 So, 00:33:56.300 --> 00:33:57.909 Travis Bader: uh, well that effort at the front end sure 00:33:57.909 --> 00:33:59.140 pays dividends in the back end. 00:33:59.140 --> 00:34:02.780 David Macdonald: Yeah, but, uh, but I'm a little more, a little more prone 00:34:02.789 --> 00:34:04.970 now to sit on the couch and eat a bag of chips than I am to work, go to the 00:34:05.109 --> 00:34:09.905 gym, but, uh, but, uh, So you recover quickly, but yeah, mentally though, 00:34:09.965 --> 00:34:14.195 the, I didn't realize the, you know, it took a couple of years for me to realize 00:34:14.195 --> 00:34:15.835 really what was going on mentally. 00:34:16.885 --> 00:34:17.025 Did 00:34:17.025 --> 00:34:18.704 Travis Bader: other people recognize it before you? 00:34:19.365 --> 00:34:21.585 David Macdonald: You know, I think they did, but they were in 00:34:21.585 --> 00:34:22.625 denial just as much as I were. 00:34:24.075 --> 00:34:28.674 Um, and I mentioned before, uh, firecrackers. 00:34:29.065 --> 00:34:33.485 So, and, and, and this is why I want to say that, you know, they just say that. 00:34:34.740 --> 00:34:37.130 Triggering, you know, everyone's triggers a little bit different. 00:34:37.670 --> 00:34:41.020 Everyone, you know, no mental health injury is the same. 00:34:41.020 --> 00:34:43.960 Although, as I said, when I left in your officer down podcast, 00:34:43.969 --> 00:34:47.030 I was just like, okay, all that stuff that he did, I did as well. 00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:47.479 Yeah. 00:34:47.929 --> 00:34:48.690 That's Nathan Kepler. 00:34:48.690 --> 00:34:49.000 Yeah. 00:34:49.049 --> 00:34:51.749 It's a very, very, you know, everything I'm like, okay, maybe different 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.120 way he did it, maybe different reasons or different, you know, 00:34:54.140 --> 00:34:55.560 but it's very, very similar, but. 00:34:56.565 --> 00:34:58.995 It doesn't mean that the triggers are necessarily the same or 00:34:58.995 --> 00:35:00.585 even the way the trigger. 00:35:00.585 --> 00:35:03.525 So when I say, when I was telling kids, you know, I tell kids firecrackers, 00:35:04.325 --> 00:35:07.235 everyone's like, yeah, of course the explosions you, you worked with IEDs, you, 00:35:07.244 --> 00:35:08.585 you've had explosions happen around you. 00:35:08.595 --> 00:35:10.954 I was involved in rocket attacks and overseas. 00:35:10.954 --> 00:35:14.645 And I'm like, yeah, you know, I was, I spent a lot of time at Massengar, 00:35:14.665 --> 00:35:16.915 which we called the catcher's mitt, which was literally just a base 00:35:16.915 --> 00:35:21.165 with a big open end that faced Panja, that, uh, the city center. 00:35:21.955 --> 00:35:24.765 And there's always these great pots where they'd lob mortars in at us. 00:35:26.915 --> 00:35:29.985 And, but then I explained, well, what about the fireworks 00:35:30.075 --> 00:35:31.075 do you think triggers me? 00:35:32.705 --> 00:35:34.385 And everyone's like, well, the explosions. 00:35:34.395 --> 00:35:37.755 I'm like, no, it's that the explosion is actually a release for me. 00:35:37.824 --> 00:35:41.925 There's a calming effect because over, and then when you're there, but if 00:35:41.925 --> 00:35:43.855 you heard the explosion, you survive. 00:35:43.884 --> 00:35:44.394 That's right. 00:35:45.394 --> 00:35:47.994 Hearing the launch, the little funk of it, leaving the tube. 00:35:48.424 --> 00:35:52.124 Oh, even now, like I'm, it sends some shivers down my spine. 00:35:52.134 --> 00:35:52.474 Yeah. 00:35:53.074 --> 00:35:53.444 Guys. 00:35:54.515 --> 00:35:57.465 All you could do is, you know, I remember there was one incident in Massacre, we 00:35:57.465 --> 00:36:00.675 heard the thunk and you heard get down and there was nowhere to, I was literally 00:36:00.675 --> 00:36:08.335 in the middle of going from my, uh, uh, ballistic hut up here down to where 00:36:08.404 --> 00:36:12.415 the, uh, logistics headquarters was, was getting some orders and like that. 00:36:12.434 --> 00:36:16.045 And I was stuck in the middle, just in this open flat area with 00:36:16.045 --> 00:36:17.015 nothing but gravel around you. 00:36:17.015 --> 00:36:20.165 And the only thing you do is get to the ground and hope you hear that explosion. 00:36:21.875 --> 00:36:25.295 You know, you did and look, you know, I managed it, it, it hit on the other side 00:36:25.295 --> 00:36:28.575 of the base and it didn't affect me, but it definitely stuck with you a little bit. 00:36:28.575 --> 00:36:29.705 Cause you're like, okay. 00:36:30.785 --> 00:36:32.365 Travis Bader: In the moment when that happened, it is a 00:36:32.365 --> 00:36:34.105 hit adrenaline rush thing. 00:36:34.815 --> 00:36:35.414 David Macdonald: This is great. 00:36:35.415 --> 00:36:35.935 Yeah. 00:36:36.255 --> 00:36:37.324 Oh, and you're like, ha ha. 00:36:37.594 --> 00:36:37.904 Right. 00:36:37.904 --> 00:36:42.375 You, you missed me, but at the exact same time, and again, you're young 00:36:42.375 --> 00:36:45.155 at the time, you don't realize what's going on, but it does definitely leave 00:36:45.155 --> 00:36:46.545 a scar in your head of kind of like. 00:36:46.585 --> 00:36:51.615 Remember the thunk of the tube means you're, you're, you're going to die. 00:36:52.335 --> 00:36:53.495 The explosion is a release. 00:36:53.495 --> 00:36:54.345 You just survive. 00:36:55.285 --> 00:36:59.235 So I remember, uh, one May 4th, May 1, May 2, 4 weekend, I was out with 00:36:59.235 --> 00:37:02.015 my girlfriend and we were down at, uh, we thought it'd be really smart 00:37:02.025 --> 00:37:06.505 to go down to, uh, uh, Atherton Bay in Toronto, massive firework display. 00:37:07.740 --> 00:37:09.900 And I couldn't handle, I, I, I just, I retreated to the, 00:37:10.080 --> 00:37:11.540 like the basement or like that. 00:37:11.550 --> 00:37:13.490 And, you know, and she didn't understand at all. 00:37:13.600 --> 00:37:16.080 She was, she got upset again, alcohol was involved. 00:37:16.080 --> 00:37:21.200 So, uh, and I was weirdly enough, I actually found the person we were 00:37:21.200 --> 00:37:25.969 visiting her, her dad was down there and I was like, he was like, you okay? 00:37:25.969 --> 00:37:27.930 And I'm like, no, I don't think I am. 00:37:27.930 --> 00:37:30.500 And he's just like, yeah. 00:37:30.530 --> 00:37:32.850 And it turns out he was, he had been a, uh, a Vietnam vet. 00:37:36.055 --> 00:37:38.605 And he's like, yeah, yeah, don't worry. 00:37:39.085 --> 00:37:39.475 I get it. 00:37:39.765 --> 00:37:40.625 And I'm like, okay. 00:37:41.415 --> 00:37:44.475 So I felt kind of safe that moment, but that was like kind of the first sign 00:37:44.475 --> 00:37:49.245 of, I remember I was crossing a field on another day, same thing, fireworks go off. 00:37:49.265 --> 00:37:51.915 And the first thing I do is I go to the, I'm like, I have groceries in my hand, 00:37:52.155 --> 00:37:53.745 throw them off and I go to the dirt. 00:37:54.455 --> 00:37:55.165 It's usually an explosion. 00:37:55.165 --> 00:37:57.535 And then I go booking it across the field and back home. 00:37:57.625 --> 00:37:59.145 I just leave the groceries there in the field. 00:37:59.225 --> 00:37:59.605 Yeah. 00:38:00.235 --> 00:38:02.445 And then I got home and I was, I was so confused because 00:38:02.445 --> 00:38:03.415 I'm like, why did I do that? 00:38:03.935 --> 00:38:04.685 I'm, I'm home. 00:38:04.945 --> 00:38:05.845 It makes sense at the time. 00:38:05.845 --> 00:38:06.875 It makes sense completely. 00:38:06.875 --> 00:38:09.714 It's, it's, it's your body goes in, you know, the training kicks in and 00:38:09.725 --> 00:38:13.265 you immediately go into, uh, what, you know, survival mode, but then 00:38:13.265 --> 00:38:16.424 you get, you get, you think about it after a second, you're like, I'm home. 00:38:16.425 --> 00:38:17.795 There's, there's, there was no threat there. 00:38:19.205 --> 00:38:20.465 Um, trying to 00:38:20.465 --> 00:38:24.875 Travis Bader: rationalize those things is, um, can be difficult though. 00:38:24.975 --> 00:38:26.695 David Macdonald: And you feel completely embarrassed. 00:38:26.695 --> 00:38:27.054 You felt that. 00:38:27.054 --> 00:38:28.084 And that's it, right? 00:38:28.145 --> 00:38:29.205 I felt like a jackass. 00:38:29.205 --> 00:38:29.504 And then. 00:38:30.030 --> 00:38:31.760 Travis Bader: And I think that's where people have difficulty. 00:38:31.850 --> 00:38:35.540 And I think it exacerbates the issue because you're like, well, 00:38:35.560 --> 00:38:36.550 I shouldn't have done that. 00:38:36.550 --> 00:38:41.690 And I shouldn't have felt like this when the reality is how you feeling and how 00:38:42.240 --> 00:38:46.540 you're reacting is a perfectly natural response to everything that's happening. 00:38:47.099 --> 00:38:47.579 And. 00:38:48.710 --> 00:38:52.690 I remember my wife will kill me for this, but I remember years ago, you know, 00:38:52.700 --> 00:38:56.290 having an argument, I'm basically, I'm rationally trying to work through this. 00:38:56.290 --> 00:38:58.460 And I'm like, this doesn't make sense, right? 00:38:58.460 --> 00:39:00.740 This is how you're feeling. 00:39:00.740 --> 00:39:01.579 Does it make sense? 00:39:01.580 --> 00:39:03.080 It's essentially what I'm saying to her. 00:39:03.290 --> 00:39:07.559 And she's like, you're right, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel 00:39:07.560 --> 00:39:09.510 like this, we need to address this. 00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:10.680 Okay. 00:39:10.730 --> 00:39:14.240 And I think that same sort of logic applies to the situation like this, 00:39:14.250 --> 00:39:15.960 like, okay, maybe I can't rationalize it. 00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:18.030 But I'm still feeling it and I can recognize it. 00:39:18.730 --> 00:39:19.690 So let's address 00:39:19.690 --> 00:39:19.890 David Macdonald: it. 00:39:20.210 --> 00:39:23.720 But also, and, and as, at the same time, I was just like, oh, well, this 00:39:23.720 --> 00:39:25.720 is just, this'll probably go away. 00:39:25.770 --> 00:39:26.730 This is common. 00:39:27.430 --> 00:39:29.949 You just got back from tour not that long ago or anything like that. 00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:31.569 You know, you're just going through the motions of it. 00:39:31.580 --> 00:39:35.890 Cause again, and this is where some of the lectures, maybe the army taught us kind 00:39:35.890 --> 00:39:40.380 of was actually the worst enemy because, oh, this is, this is normal or like that. 00:39:41.305 --> 00:39:41.815 Travis Bader: It'll go away. 00:39:41.815 --> 00:39:42.430 It's just like a muscle. 00:39:42.430 --> 00:39:42.790 It'll go away. 00:39:42.790 --> 00:39:42.910 Yeah. 00:39:42.915 --> 00:39:43.585 Muscle injury. 00:39:43.585 --> 00:39:44.275 It'll go away. 00:39:44.305 --> 00:39:44.995 A break it'll go away. 00:39:44.995 --> 00:39:45.505 If I ignore 00:39:45.505 --> 00:39:45.655 David Macdonald: it. 00:39:46.075 --> 00:39:51.545 . And then you kind of realize over the years, you know, it, it, it didn't, 00:39:51.695 --> 00:39:54.755 you know, kind of go, the stress was always, hypervigilance was always there. 00:39:55.645 --> 00:39:58.635 Um, it worked, it played in my benefit cause I got into security, 00:39:58.655 --> 00:40:00.785 got into, you know, special constable work and stuff like that. 00:40:00.785 --> 00:40:04.835 So it kind of, you know, played in my benefit there, but it, and 00:40:04.835 --> 00:40:08.664 then, but then also like, you know, my sleep was, was shit. 00:40:09.554 --> 00:40:10.264 Absolutely. 00:40:10.325 --> 00:40:13.245 You know, I maybe sleep three hours a night and that went 00:40:13.245 --> 00:40:14.345 on for four and a half years. 00:40:14.955 --> 00:40:15.325 Travis Bader: Yeah. 00:40:15.965 --> 00:40:21.065 So that's, that's probably one of the biggest things that you need is sleep. 00:40:21.075 --> 00:40:21.215 Oh, 00:40:21.215 --> 00:40:21.785 David Macdonald: absolutely. 00:40:22.025 --> 00:40:22.735 But I, but I couldn't. 00:40:23.380 --> 00:40:25.610 I was, my brain would just not shut off. 00:40:26.510 --> 00:40:28.000 And so what do you do? 00:40:28.070 --> 00:40:32.200 Well, at the time I'm like, well, if I'm going to be awake, I might as well work. 00:40:32.790 --> 00:40:35.089 So I just kept taking jobs, multiple jobs. 00:40:35.589 --> 00:40:38.040 I used to work with what I called the Ironman shift. 00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:40.830 So I was working two, I was working at the time, two different security jobs. 00:40:40.849 --> 00:40:41.810 I was working at the science center. 00:40:41.810 --> 00:40:43.470 I was working at the Harborfront center in Toronto. 00:40:44.210 --> 00:40:47.210 I would do an eight hour day shift at the Harborfront. 00:40:47.935 --> 00:40:48.305 No, sorry. 00:40:48.345 --> 00:40:49.925 I'll do an eight hour day shift at the science center. 00:40:50.605 --> 00:40:54.025 Then go down and do a 12 hour night shift at the Harborfront and then go back and do 00:40:54.025 --> 00:40:55.495 an eight hour shift at the science center. 00:40:56.435 --> 00:40:59.675 And only then would I then go home and you think, well, you're 00:40:59.705 --> 00:41:00.805 going to sleep or like that. 00:41:00.815 --> 00:41:03.155 Now you've just been up for 36 hours and like that. 00:41:03.434 --> 00:41:05.354 And I would go home and I would just sit, I would just sit there and be 00:41:05.484 --> 00:41:11.325 like, I know I'm tired, but I know there's no point in sleeping because 00:41:11.325 --> 00:41:12.815 I'm going to be up in two hours. 00:41:13.415 --> 00:41:13.595 Did 00:41:13.595 --> 00:41:15.565 Travis Bader: you turn to sleep aids 00:41:16.145 --> 00:41:17.835 David Macdonald: or substances? 00:41:18.045 --> 00:41:22.674 No, at, at the time, I, despite me working all that, I was also 00:41:22.675 --> 00:41:25.095 living in Toronto in Midtown. 00:41:25.304 --> 00:41:30.474 I couldn't afford substances if I wanted to, um, I, and at the time 00:41:30.474 --> 00:41:33.165 I didn't realize I, you know, I didn't realize I could go through 00:41:33.165 --> 00:41:34.635 Veterans Affairs for it and, um, 00:41:39.155 --> 00:41:45.685 There was to this day and it, it, it, uh, it, it still hurts to this day. 00:41:45.705 --> 00:41:45.995 Yeah. 00:41:46.015 --> 00:41:52.915 The, what not, I wouldn't say the betrayal, but when I came home, um, 00:41:53.425 --> 00:41:57.594 the reserves weren't prepared to deal with casualties from Afghanistan. 00:41:59.205 --> 00:42:01.685 It, it really is a shame because at the point where we, while we were 00:42:01.685 --> 00:42:04.465 deploying a lot of reservists from my tour, I think, you know, my tour 00:42:04.465 --> 00:42:08.295 is almost, we were almost 50, 50 with right force in terms of the amount of 00:42:08.305 --> 00:42:12.285 people, preservers that deployed and up near the, up near like later tours, 00:42:12.285 --> 00:42:15.564 you're getting upwards of 60 percent preservers were deploying on the tour. 00:42:16.854 --> 00:42:18.285 But when we got hurt. 00:42:18.795 --> 00:42:22.295 And we came home, we instantly reverted back to from, this was 00:42:22.295 --> 00:42:23.325 three classes of reservists. 00:42:23.325 --> 00:42:25.905 There's class a, which just standard be going in. 00:42:25.915 --> 00:42:28.445 You sign in for your days or your weekends and you get paid for that. 00:42:29.055 --> 00:42:30.885 Class B, which is a whole other thing. 00:42:30.895 --> 00:42:33.195 You're kind of quasi full time, quasi not. 00:42:33.704 --> 00:42:36.854 There's certain benefits depending on how long your, your contract is. 00:42:36.955 --> 00:42:38.975 It's a contract and then class C. 00:42:39.075 --> 00:42:41.075 So you deploy, we, we deployed as a class C. 00:42:41.555 --> 00:42:43.425 You're essentially, you have all the benefits of a rank 00:42:43.425 --> 00:42:45.395 four soldier, you're full time. 00:42:46.210 --> 00:42:49.039 Um, you're, you're, for all intents and purposes, you're, you're 00:42:49.040 --> 00:42:50.630 the same as a Regforce soldier. 00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:54.859 Uh, you're attached to a Regforce battalion during that time when 00:42:54.870 --> 00:42:56.849 you're either deployed or you're doing your workup training. 00:42:57.899 --> 00:43:04.519 Um, and near the end of the tour, they offered all of us component transfers 00:43:04.529 --> 00:43:07.530 over to Regforce cause we, as far as our concern, we've proven ourselves. 00:43:07.530 --> 00:43:09.840 They offered it at our rank, which was almost unheard of. 00:43:09.890 --> 00:43:10.840 Um, wow. 00:43:11.205 --> 00:43:17.605 And so I got, uh, I was looking at, uh, five year stint at, uh, two VP in Shiloh 00:43:18.145 --> 00:43:22.515 really didn't want to go there, but, uh, but it's where the next, it's where the 00:43:22.515 --> 00:43:25.184 next tour was going, this was pre injury. 00:43:26.015 --> 00:43:30.205 I really want, my, my goal was to actually come back and at this point. 00:43:32.380 --> 00:43:34.630 And I was just like, these guys are, these guys are bad ass. 00:43:34.650 --> 00:43:38.130 This is, I really wanted to at least go try for selection for see saw. 00:43:38.389 --> 00:43:41.229 I was like, I'm going to come back from tour, stay fit. 00:43:41.450 --> 00:43:44.069 Cause I'm going to be in good shape and I'm going to put in my slip, you 00:43:44.070 --> 00:43:46.630 know, maybe, maybe go to VP and then put in my selection for see saw. 00:43:47.265 --> 00:43:51.705 Injury changed all that I got injured, my CT got pulled. 00:43:52.495 --> 00:43:56.375 There was no way I thought at that point I'd, you know, I was physically injured. 00:43:56.375 --> 00:43:59.195 So there's no way I was going to be trying out for selection. 00:43:59.205 --> 00:43:59.985 I couldn't make it through. 00:44:00.764 --> 00:44:05.154 Um, and I know at the time I wasn't thinking mentally, but meant looking 00:44:05.155 --> 00:44:07.615 back now mentally, there's no way I could have gone through the mental 00:44:07.615 --> 00:44:08.525 game of it or anything like that. 00:44:08.535 --> 00:44:14.160 So, um, Not a cop out, just, it just is what it is. 00:44:14.230 --> 00:44:16.740 It was the, it was the hand that life dealt me or anything like that. 00:44:17.870 --> 00:44:24.880 And, um, so yeah, anyway, as I said, so going back, I couldn't afford any of 00:44:24.890 --> 00:44:26.069 the substances or anything like that. 00:44:26.070 --> 00:44:26.720 Didn't realize that. 00:44:26.720 --> 00:44:34.029 And when I got home, the, I, you know, I wasn't even. 00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:36.940 When I got home, I basically got told, okay, report to the 00:44:36.940 --> 00:44:40.140 MIR at CFP Toronto on Tuesday. 00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:41.510 It was like a Friday. 00:44:41.510 --> 00:44:41.970 I got home. 00:44:42.030 --> 00:44:44.350 Okay Everything's still broken. 00:44:44.350 --> 00:44:47.080 Everything's still, you know, swelled up I was cleared to for a flight 00:44:47.080 --> 00:44:52.269 home from the hospital in Lungstuhl If I had known that the last medical 00:44:52.270 --> 00:44:54.460 care I was gonna get was in Germany. 00:44:54.820 --> 00:44:55.560 Really? 00:44:57.805 --> 00:45:00.045 Yeah, I would have requested to stay. 00:45:00.045 --> 00:45:01.415 I would have stayed there as long as I could. 00:45:01.685 --> 00:45:02.705 I basically came home. 00:45:02.705 --> 00:45:05.624 I got landed on the, the, the tarmac in Toronto. 00:45:06.015 --> 00:45:07.695 And that's where medical care stopped. 00:45:08.085 --> 00:45:08.355 He said, 00:45:08.375 --> 00:45:09.314 Travis Bader: well, you walked in here. 00:45:09.345 --> 00:45:09.745 Okay. 00:45:09.745 --> 00:45:09.895 They're 00:45:09.895 --> 00:45:11.255 David Macdonald: like, well, you're a class A reservist now. 00:45:12.134 --> 00:45:12.874 Class A reservist. 00:45:12.874 --> 00:45:16.545 You don't, you don't get the benefits of a reg force soldier or a class C 00:45:17.145 --> 00:45:21.365 you, even though, and actually when I first got to the MRR, I got wheeled 00:45:21.365 --> 00:45:24.215 in a wheelchair and they're like, I'm like, yeah, I'm here for my appointment. 00:45:24.215 --> 00:45:25.125 They're like, what appointment? 00:45:26.055 --> 00:45:26.775 They had no clue. 00:45:27.025 --> 00:45:29.125 Like I'm like, I'm in from Afghanistan. 00:45:29.135 --> 00:45:31.445 Like we don't have an injured soldier coming in from Afghanistan today. 00:45:32.315 --> 00:45:32.815 Well, I'm here. 00:45:32.825 --> 00:45:36.835 No, I'm like, well, I'm here and I'm, I'm, you know what? 00:45:37.005 --> 00:45:37.725 Yeah, I'm here. 00:45:37.795 --> 00:45:39.855 Like, uh, and I just got back from Afghanistan. 00:45:39.855 --> 00:45:40.504 So I don't have to tell you. 00:45:40.505 --> 00:45:42.434 And they're like, they had to like search for the file. 00:45:43.250 --> 00:45:44.960 And they're like, okay, we finally found it. 00:45:45.460 --> 00:45:47.060 Um, at this point, my head's still ringing. 00:45:47.070 --> 00:45:50.410 Cause you know, I, I, I got, you know, I've got headaches, go lower 00:45:50.410 --> 00:45:51.640 migraines going or something like that. 00:45:51.640 --> 00:45:54.199 Cause of all the head injuries and the, uh, still, you know, the 00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:55.379 split skull and things like that. 00:45:55.409 --> 00:45:59.650 And, um, so in a way the doctor comes in and he's like, oh, we looked at 00:45:59.650 --> 00:46:00.860 your file or anything like that. 00:46:00.860 --> 00:46:02.590 Uh, you know, you were gonna probably have to transfer to 00:46:02.590 --> 00:46:04.430 your, to your civilian doctor. 00:46:05.490 --> 00:46:06.790 What civilian doctor like that? 00:46:06.810 --> 00:46:07.890 You know, like I had one, but. 00:46:08.670 --> 00:46:09.890 How are they going to treat the injuries? 00:46:09.890 --> 00:46:13.740 The, uh, like, you know, I expected, I might be going to, you know, I had a 00:46:13.740 --> 00:46:17.340 friend earlier in our previous tour that had been really injured in an IED strike. 00:46:18.295 --> 00:46:21.485 And, uh, when he got back, he was immediately transferred to Sunnybrook. 00:46:21.645 --> 00:46:23.704 So that's what I thought where I was going. 00:46:23.705 --> 00:46:24.165 None of that. 00:46:24.175 --> 00:46:27.695 So, and then I'm like, okay, well, I document a lot of pain 00:46:28.295 --> 00:46:30.904 and I've got a lot of broken bones and things are still swelled up. 00:46:30.905 --> 00:46:33.514 I got a lot of cortisol going through my body, like crazy or like that. 00:46:33.725 --> 00:46:34.954 He's like, okay, don't worry me. 00:46:35.014 --> 00:46:36.885 You know, we'll, we'll be, obviously we'll take care of that for you. 00:46:37.465 --> 00:46:39.735 They sent me to the pharmacy at the MIR. 00:46:40.335 --> 00:46:40.895 T3s? 00:46:41.715 --> 00:46:41.995 Oxycontin. 00:46:42.845 --> 00:46:44.095 Here's three bottles of Oxycontin. 00:46:44.485 --> 00:46:45.535 Take it when you feel pain. 00:46:47.485 --> 00:46:48.835 So that I, so, okay. 00:46:48.845 --> 00:46:51.695 So I did have access to some substances that I think about it or it's like that. 00:46:51.695 --> 00:46:51.965 Right. 00:46:52.315 --> 00:46:55.245 But probably the worst substance you could possibly give. 00:46:55.384 --> 00:46:56.415 Let's just get somebody addicted. 00:46:57.115 --> 00:47:00.745 And then to make matters even worse, this was all in one visit to me 00:47:00.985 --> 00:47:02.365 when I'm rolling myself back out. 00:47:02.565 --> 00:47:06.335 Suddenly one of the pharmacy nurses comes running up to like, Hey, sorry, like, 00:47:06.335 --> 00:47:07.435 um, let me check what they gave you. 00:47:08.335 --> 00:47:09.585 So they checked the bot, the bottle. 00:47:09.585 --> 00:47:10.835 They're like, yeah, this would have killed you. 00:47:10.835 --> 00:47:12.575 They gave you blood thinners by accident. 00:47:14.285 --> 00:47:15.025 Wow. 00:47:16.165 --> 00:47:19.125 First sign that everything was about to, you know, was going to 00:47:19.125 --> 00:47:20.275 go to shit for the next four years. 00:47:20.505 --> 00:47:21.215 Wow. 00:47:22.394 --> 00:47:25.455 Uh, left my own devices after that. 00:47:26.434 --> 00:47:30.845 No, no contact with veterans affairs, no case officer assigned, nothing. 00:47:30.864 --> 00:47:32.565 Just basically get better. 00:47:32.565 --> 00:47:34.795 You have 30 days to get, actually I was told you got 30 days to get 00:47:34.805 --> 00:47:35.855 better or you're out of the army. 00:47:38.675 --> 00:47:39.185 Wow. 00:47:39.265 --> 00:47:43.725 So I showed up at my unit, you know, barely able to walk, but 00:47:43.725 --> 00:47:45.165 they're like, you're back on duty. 00:47:46.430 --> 00:47:46.880 Good to go. 00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:47.650 And you're 00:47:47.650 --> 00:47:48.380 Travis Bader: thinking who raw? 00:47:48.380 --> 00:47:49.030 I'm a tough guy. 00:47:49.590 --> 00:47:50.350 David Macdonald: I'm thinking I'm young. 00:47:50.350 --> 00:47:51.950 I can, I can, I guess this is just another thing. 00:47:51.950 --> 00:47:52.940 I'll do it or something like that. 00:47:52.940 --> 00:47:53.220 Right? 00:47:54.250 --> 00:47:59.340 Um, fast forward four years, you know, haven't slept in forever. 00:47:59.510 --> 00:48:01.159 Luckily I'd never developed a. 00:48:04.005 --> 00:48:05.465 I mean, I didn't like what they were doing to me. 00:48:05.745 --> 00:48:06.055 Yeah. 00:48:06.305 --> 00:48:10.795 Um, my, I decided to quit it in gold, just deal with the pain after 00:48:10.795 --> 00:48:15.485 I took one and my, my fiance at the time or like that, uh, she, uh, 00:48:15.585 --> 00:48:16.635 she made, she was going to work. 00:48:16.635 --> 00:48:19.324 So she, she kissed me, you know, before she went to work, I was laying 00:48:19.324 --> 00:48:21.512 in bed, did my job at the time. 00:48:21.512 --> 00:48:22.305 So I was just like, okay. 00:48:22.415 --> 00:48:25.595 Um, and what I thought was 10 minutes past. 00:48:26.325 --> 00:48:28.455 When she comes back in the room and I'm like, well, what are 00:48:28.455 --> 00:48:29.195 you, what are you doing here? 00:48:29.355 --> 00:48:31.385 Like, you know, I thought you had to go to work. 00:48:31.385 --> 00:48:32.615 She's like, what are you talking about? 00:48:32.665 --> 00:48:33.945 I'm like, I thought you had to go to work. 00:48:34.975 --> 00:48:35.944 Babe, I've been gone. 00:48:36.155 --> 00:48:37.055 I went to work. 00:48:37.095 --> 00:48:39.255 She, she worked downtown in Toronto. 00:48:39.265 --> 00:48:41.364 We were, we lived up at like Uptown. 00:48:41.374 --> 00:48:42.155 She's like, I've been gone. 00:48:42.214 --> 00:48:43.215 I've been gone for 10 hours. 00:48:43.774 --> 00:48:43.994 Yeah. 00:48:43.995 --> 00:48:44.665 I wouldn't like that. 00:48:45.445 --> 00:48:47.705 I'm like, Oh, I got to get off these things. 00:48:47.765 --> 00:48:53.725 Like, so, so luckily I never went down that, that, that opioid path. 00:48:53.735 --> 00:48:54.305 Thank God. 00:48:54.504 --> 00:48:54.894 But. 00:48:55.400 --> 00:48:57.600 It would have been real simple to do it. 00:48:58.670 --> 00:49:01.640 I mean, yeah, they gave it to me, you know, right. 00:49:02.310 --> 00:49:07.119 Um, it was actually years later I was talking to, I was at one of the, one of 00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:08.650 the, the, uh, wounded warrior events. 00:49:08.680 --> 00:49:14.160 I was talking to a general, um, Which is, you know, a weird thing to say that, you 00:49:14.160 --> 00:49:18.300 know, corporal was talking to a general as we were peers, but, uh, I wasn't, 00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:21.989 you know, in the military, I wasn't there as part of my military rank, but, 00:49:22.899 --> 00:49:25.609 but we were kind of shooting, you know, we were shooting around or like that. 00:49:25.630 --> 00:49:29.769 And I actually got him to publicly admit the army was completely 00:49:30.089 --> 00:49:35.090 unprepared for the reservists to, when to deploy and to be injured. 00:49:35.640 --> 00:49:37.490 They had, there was no plans. 00:49:39.010 --> 00:49:41.460 No plans at all for how to deal with reservists that have been, 00:49:41.500 --> 00:49:42.560 were injured in Afghanistan. 00:49:42.570 --> 00:49:44.940 Cause they're just, they just had never had really occurred before. 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:48.820 And like we, they never deployed us into a, a war zone in that type of 00:49:48.820 --> 00:49:50.130 capacity and that type of conflict. 00:49:50.200 --> 00:49:50.610 Right. 00:49:50.700 --> 00:49:52.070 Obviously we deployed into Bosnia. 00:49:52.080 --> 00:49:55.589 We'd, we'd gone to, you know, in place, we'd gone, I don't, I think some of us 00:49:55.589 --> 00:49:56.900 had gone to Rwanda or something like that. 00:49:56.929 --> 00:49:59.969 Um, but it was a different combat zone. 00:50:00.229 --> 00:50:04.459 It wasn't outward flat out combat and fighting an insurgency. 00:50:04.489 --> 00:50:04.769 Right. 00:50:04.769 --> 00:50:05.069 So. 00:50:05.990 --> 00:50:09.370 Um, IEDs were, you know, mines were the main threat in a lot 00:50:09.370 --> 00:50:10.880 of Bosnia and Kosovo area. 00:50:10.900 --> 00:50:16.110 We were dealing with an active IED threat that, you know, and it, so. 00:50:16.550 --> 00:50:17.039 Is this why you 00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:18.739 Travis Bader: got involved with, uh, wounded warriors? 00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:19.956 You spoke at the Senate too, 00:50:19.956 --> 00:50:20.309 David Macdonald: didn't you? 00:50:20.310 --> 00:50:20.690 I did. 00:50:20.690 --> 00:50:24.489 I testified at the Senate, uh, when I was with wounded warriors, but I went 00:50:24.490 --> 00:50:28.020 in, I went as a capacity, as a corporal in the army, as an injured veteran. 00:50:28.680 --> 00:50:30.900 Because, uh, and I'll talk about that in a second. 00:50:31.210 --> 00:50:35.290 I got a really cool story about that experience, but, uh, how I got 00:50:35.290 --> 00:50:37.980 involved with wounded warriors, I actually knew about them for a while. 00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:39.999 I actually received one of their care packages when I was 00:50:39.999 --> 00:50:41.000 in the hospital in Germany. 00:50:41.070 --> 00:50:46.919 Um, it was a, the whole thing about wounded warriors was started and, uh, 00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:51.490 it was started around a soldier that, uh, a combat engineer that had been 00:50:51.490 --> 00:50:54.879 injured, uh, I forget, 06 in Afghanistan. 00:50:54.879 --> 00:50:55.539 Okay. 00:50:56.615 --> 00:50:59.815 It turns out he was my fire, him and me, we had been fire team partners during boot 00:50:59.815 --> 00:51:01.605 camp and a soldier qualification course. 00:51:01.615 --> 00:51:03.025 So we got, we were pretty close together. 00:51:03.025 --> 00:51:05.955 Um, and that's how I kind of knew about it. 00:51:05.975 --> 00:51:07.915 And then I got it. 00:51:08.364 --> 00:51:12.085 I actually got into Wounded Warriors after I got into the veteran's aid space. 00:51:12.174 --> 00:51:13.535 It was actually further on down the line. 00:51:13.625 --> 00:51:19.025 Um, But, uh, no, actually how I got into the whole veteran's aid space was 00:51:19.315 --> 00:51:23.605 I started off as an, it was actually my own kind of story of reclaiming my 00:51:23.605 --> 00:51:28.815 life back again, fast forward four years after my injury, no sleep, not really 00:51:28.815 --> 00:51:30.095 sure what the hell was going on with me. 00:51:30.195 --> 00:51:34.605 Um, I had kind of given up, I pulled away from my family. 00:51:34.885 --> 00:51:35.205 Yeah. 00:51:35.535 --> 00:51:40.155 Uh, so, but for about almost four years, my mom didn't know if I was alive or dead. 00:51:40.655 --> 00:51:42.065 She never, she didn't, she never heard from me. 00:51:42.844 --> 00:51:47.580 And, uh, I'd gone married, gone divorced. 00:51:47.750 --> 00:51:53.040 I'd F that relationship up completely, uh, decide to get into another 00:51:53.040 --> 00:51:55.760 relationship, which was completely destructive or like that, you know, 00:51:55.790 --> 00:51:57.479 like going down this path or like that. 00:51:57.750 --> 00:51:59.790 You've heard from all the, you know, a bunch of other guys that 00:51:59.790 --> 00:52:02.479 are on this podcast or when you hear from other people like, Oh yeah, 00:52:02.579 --> 00:52:04.460 it was doing real stupid stuff. 00:52:05.600 --> 00:52:06.840 Were you recognizing it at the time? 00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:07.950 Oh God, no, no. 00:52:09.125 --> 00:52:12.635 It was always someone else's, you know, it didn't work out because that's just 00:52:12.635 --> 00:52:15.335 the way it's supposed to go, or they didn't do this or, and it wasn't getting 00:52:15.335 --> 00:52:16.735 fulfilled in this way or like that. 00:52:16.965 --> 00:52:18.105 Travis Bader: But what had to happen for you to 00:52:18.105 --> 00:52:18.715 David Macdonald: recognize it? 00:52:19.765 --> 00:52:22.685 I actually got extremely lucky. 00:52:23.105 --> 00:52:27.100 Um, So I went into my army unit one day and this was 00:52:28.680 --> 00:52:31.610 2012 and went in my army unit. 00:52:31.640 --> 00:52:34.500 And, uh, they, they went to me and they're like, and at this point there 00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:38.679 was maybe there was two injured soldiers in my unit that had been injured in 00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:40.660 Afghanistan, me and a guy on 2010. 00:52:41.629 --> 00:52:44.300 Um, and they, they just, they came to me. 00:52:44.300 --> 00:52:44.570 I happened 00:52:44.570 --> 00:52:48.690 Travis Bader: to show up that night and they said, Hey, you know, I think we, 00:52:48.690 --> 00:52:50.700 we, something came across our desk and. 00:52:51.885 --> 00:52:52.855 I think it's a good go. 00:52:53.295 --> 00:52:57.145 Now, anyone in the army will tell you when you hear a good go, you are 00:52:57.145 --> 00:53:00.595 merely suspicious of that because it's like ice cream, you know. 00:53:01.300 --> 00:53:03.060 You know, it's like the D day and do what we're doing. 00:53:03.060 --> 00:53:03.830 They're giving you ice cream. 00:53:03.830 --> 00:53:05.750 You're like, Oh, is this actually going to happen? 00:53:05.750 --> 00:53:07.980 We're, we're, we're jumping into the buzzsaw here. 00:53:07.980 --> 00:53:08.560 It's like that. 00:53:08.560 --> 00:53:08.820 Right. 00:53:08.820 --> 00:53:12.379 And so you're like, yeah, okay, let's, I'm willing to hear it 00:53:12.380 --> 00:53:13.400 out, but what is this good to go? 00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:15.020 I'm like thinking, I'm like, they're going to send me on, 00:53:15.080 --> 00:53:16.410 they're going to appeal cute. 00:53:16.419 --> 00:53:16.780 They're going to. 00:53:17.295 --> 00:53:21.225 You know, some, you know, bad drive course or some other I'm going off to, you 00:53:21.225 --> 00:53:23.955 know, like, uh, something or like that. 00:53:23.965 --> 00:53:26.175 And there, but I'm like, okay, I'm interested. 00:53:26.195 --> 00:53:26.515 Sure. 00:53:26.565 --> 00:53:27.405 Send it my way. 00:53:27.405 --> 00:53:29.075 And it turned out it was the troop. 00:53:29.135 --> 00:53:33.965 It was the first inaugural true patron love, um, March to the top. 00:53:34.454 --> 00:53:35.874 So this was true. 00:53:35.874 --> 00:53:38.555 We'd love as a, uh, not as a charity in Toronto. 00:53:38.555 --> 00:53:41.435 And they decided they were going to do an expedition. 00:53:41.970 --> 00:53:45.500 Taking 12 injured soldiers all have been injured in different areas in 00:53:45.510 --> 00:53:47.160 the military, not all Afghanistan. 00:53:47.160 --> 00:53:48.030 So I'm previous to that. 00:53:49.070 --> 00:53:53.749 Uh, and we were going to go climb a mountain in Nepal, 22, 000 foot, you 00:53:53.749 --> 00:53:57.590 know, mountain Island peak, and we were doing it to raise awareness and money for. 00:53:58.975 --> 00:54:00.155 Had you done mountaineering before? 00:54:00.165 --> 00:54:04.045 Oh God, no, no, I'd done some rock climbing, but like indoor rock 00:54:04.045 --> 00:54:07.235 climbing at like, you know, that's some, you know, 30 foot tall. 00:54:07.324 --> 00:54:08.754 22, 000. 00:54:08.845 --> 00:54:12.974 So if people, I'm just thinking of perspective here, mountain Baker, which 00:54:12.975 --> 00:54:14.594 is kind of the highest peak that we have. 00:54:14.595 --> 00:54:17.655 You can see over that's 10, seven, I think. 00:54:17.655 --> 00:54:17.885 Yeah. 00:54:17.945 --> 00:54:22.325 So that's twice the size that in, so 22. 00:54:23.635 --> 00:54:24.885 That that's up there. 00:54:24.925 --> 00:54:25.215 Oh yeah. 00:54:25.255 --> 00:54:26.125 That is out there. 00:54:26.165 --> 00:54:27.265 It is above the clouds. 00:54:27.285 --> 00:54:28.265 What, what peak is that? 00:54:28.385 --> 00:54:29.005 Island peak. 00:54:29.065 --> 00:54:29.615 Island peak. 00:54:29.835 --> 00:54:33.274 So it's in, it's on, it's in the, uh, shadow of Mount Everest 00:54:33.605 --> 00:54:34.405 the entire time you're climbing. 00:54:34.625 --> 00:54:37.055 You're when you actually get to the actual mountain base of your climbing 00:54:37.055 --> 00:54:38.355 Mount Everest is right there next to you. 00:54:39.504 --> 00:54:42.874 Um, and it's about, you know, you think Jesus, that's another 9, 000 feet, 10, 00:54:42.875 --> 00:54:49.590 000 feet more than what we did, but, uh, So we, we actually, our training 00:54:49.590 --> 00:54:53.600 camp was actually out here, uh, in kind of, not that far away from Mount Baker. 00:54:53.680 --> 00:54:56.040 Like we were climbing the Columbia ice field and doing 00:54:56.040 --> 00:54:56.860 a bunch of training out there. 00:54:57.735 --> 00:55:01.025 Uh, so yeah, whenever I come out here, I'm always kind of like, I, my hotel 00:55:01.025 --> 00:55:02.655 here to now I'm here for something else. 00:55:02.655 --> 00:55:03.325 I was sleeping in my hotel. 00:55:03.325 --> 00:55:05.815 I can see the mountains and it always brings back good memories of being 00:55:05.815 --> 00:55:09.055 up there for three weeks, just kind of training grounds, but, but it 00:55:09.195 --> 00:55:12.325 was, the climb itself was amazing. 00:55:12.524 --> 00:55:15.395 I didn't, you don't actually realize when you think of Nepal, you think of, 00:55:15.504 --> 00:55:18.625 oh, ice climbing, you know, there's a huge amount of, you gotta, you 00:55:18.625 --> 00:55:19.635 gotta remember, you gotta get there. 00:55:19.875 --> 00:55:20.235 Yes. 00:55:20.815 --> 00:55:25.180 It took, It took, what, 14 days just to get to the base camp. 00:55:25.580 --> 00:55:29.090 And then you're just walking and it's everything from temperate forest to 00:55:29.090 --> 00:55:33.159 rainforest to Rocky, you know, it, we set up the Sherpas or anything. 00:55:33.180 --> 00:55:33.450 Oh yeah. 00:55:33.450 --> 00:55:33.599 Yeah. 00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:36.229 We Sherpas and like, it was a dream experience. 00:55:36.229 --> 00:55:39.759 We had Yaks and we, you know, but it has every train. 00:55:40.190 --> 00:55:45.125 If you went to Nepal, you could film any, Anyplace in the world, minus 00:55:45.125 --> 00:55:49.245 an urban city, you could film there and you could, it could be Ireland. 00:55:49.255 --> 00:55:50.125 It could be Scotland. 00:55:50.135 --> 00:55:52.465 It could be, you know, Vietnam. 00:55:52.515 --> 00:55:54.925 Like it could be anywhere in the world because they have all those different 00:55:54.955 --> 00:55:56.515 environments right there with you. 00:55:56.935 --> 00:56:01.415 You're climbing, you're, you're walking across wire bridges that 00:56:01.415 --> 00:56:04.895 are 200 feet long over, you know, gorges with waterfalls and like that, 00:56:04.905 --> 00:56:07.065 that, you know, that's pretty cool. 00:56:07.470 --> 00:56:10.500 And you're walking past that had been, you know, like trade routes for 2000 years. 00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:14.170 Like it's, it's Nancy Bazaar is this amazing town built in the 00:56:14.170 --> 00:56:17.590 amphitheater of a mountain where it's literally, it's just carved out. 00:56:17.630 --> 00:56:20.270 And all the town is just on this one up inside this one Hill. 00:56:21.350 --> 00:56:24.510 And then they tell you, Oh, Alexander the great went through here. 00:56:24.780 --> 00:56:25.409 That's cool. 00:56:25.420 --> 00:56:28.270 You're like, Jesus, like, like, like, you know, the history here. 00:56:28.270 --> 00:56:30.370 And like, just the, it was just amazing. 00:56:32.150 --> 00:56:35.740 So, but really it was being back in a group of soldiers. 00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:38.980 And so hearing some of their stories and hearing what they've kind of, some 00:56:38.990 --> 00:56:39.880 of the things they've been through. 00:56:39.900 --> 00:56:41.930 And that's when I realized that's when it kind of clicked. 00:56:41.930 --> 00:56:45.120 I was like, I may be not okay. 00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:52.200 And it was the first time I'd cried in four years, finally telling 00:56:52.200 --> 00:56:54.099 them my background, my story. 00:56:55.009 --> 00:56:58.240 And unfortunately the one downside of that. 00:56:59.215 --> 00:57:02.555 Is once I finally start feeling emotion again, it just, I 00:57:02.555 --> 00:57:03.685 couldn't, I couldn't stop. 00:57:03.695 --> 00:57:03.965 Yeah. 00:57:06.090 --> 00:57:10.380 But, but, you know, my, my girlfriend or, or I started trying to start 00:57:10.390 --> 00:57:12.990 dating during this time a little bit, and it was really hard to get a date. 00:57:13.740 --> 00:57:15.080 It was really hard to keep a date after. 00:57:15.080 --> 00:57:17.840 Cause like, cause sometimes I would just burst into tears and 00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:19.489 I'm like, I can't, I'm sorry. 00:57:19.510 --> 00:57:20.510 It's like, you know, try and explain this. 00:57:20.510 --> 00:57:22.870 And they're like, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm going to, thanks. 00:57:23.070 --> 00:57:26.340 It's not sexy to be at a restaurant and you're like, just, you know, 00:57:26.340 --> 00:57:27.690 crying by your, you know, I'm like. 00:57:27.995 --> 00:57:29.165 It is what it is, right. 00:57:29.165 --> 00:57:30.045 It is what it is. 00:57:30.045 --> 00:57:34.135 And it's an absolutely normal by product to what's going on. 00:57:34.135 --> 00:57:35.425 But I think. 00:57:35.475 --> 00:57:40.415 Still didn't realize I was suffering from PTSD yet, that took another year. 00:57:41.375 --> 00:57:45.524 And it was actually, it was after a bad drive of a winter X with my 00:57:45.525 --> 00:57:51.055 army unit that, uh, I was hanging out on just my rock and it was just 00:57:51.055 --> 00:57:53.925 a, it just cold, even freezing. 00:57:54.775 --> 00:57:58.485 Um, And it just, it was one of those weird ones where they're like, you know, take 00:57:58.505 --> 00:58:01.125 down your tent, put your tent back up, take down your tent, but it was a learning 00:58:01.615 --> 00:58:04.265 experience, but of course they have to cram a week's worth of stuff into one day. 00:58:04.265 --> 00:58:04.525 Right. 00:58:04.525 --> 00:58:09.815 So anyway, um, anyone who says winter camping to me now, 00:58:09.865 --> 00:58:10.355 they're like, Oh, let's go. 00:58:10.365 --> 00:58:11.875 I'm like, yeah, no, you know what? 00:58:11.895 --> 00:58:12.425 I'm good. 00:58:12.615 --> 00:58:14.254 I'll be okay with you in the summer. 00:58:14.254 --> 00:58:14.904 How's that sound? 00:58:14.904 --> 00:58:15.765 I've been there, done that. 00:58:15.775 --> 00:58:16.995 I know how to survive in the winter. 00:58:16.995 --> 00:58:18.595 I don't need to go and practice it anymore. 00:58:19.375 --> 00:58:20.505 But, uh, yeah. 00:58:21.345 --> 00:58:23.885 Yeah, I was sitting on my ruck and I don't know what came over me 00:58:23.885 --> 00:58:29.535 or like that, but it just, I just broke down and, uh, a sergeant came 00:58:29.535 --> 00:58:30.785 up and he's just like, you okay? 00:58:30.785 --> 00:58:31.744 And I said, no. 00:58:32.975 --> 00:58:36.375 And I think it was, I was, I was in the throes of my divorce at that point. 00:58:36.535 --> 00:58:40.805 And it was a really tough night, uh, working a night shift or 00:58:40.805 --> 00:58:43.285 anything like that, uh, the previous, in the previous week. 00:58:44.465 --> 00:58:47.165 And, um, I can't remember what it was. 00:58:47.165 --> 00:58:51.964 Something, basically someone, someone posted something on my Facebook. 00:58:51.965 --> 00:58:54.065 Uh, I know I'm on a podcast right now and it's going to be on social 00:58:54.074 --> 00:58:56.944 media and stuff like that, but I got to say, like, I'm on social media. 00:58:56.944 --> 00:58:59.545 I understand, you know, the impact it has, but I don't think 00:58:59.545 --> 00:59:02.415 a lot of people understand how, what impact it can truly have. 00:59:02.424 --> 00:59:05.175 And at this point, this is early days of social Instagram didn't exist yet. 00:59:05.185 --> 00:59:05.965 This was just Facebook. 00:59:06.145 --> 00:59:06.535 Yeah. 00:59:07.315 --> 00:59:10.185 So one of my friends decided to post a, what he thought was a 00:59:10.185 --> 00:59:11.895 supportive message on Facebook. 00:59:12.295 --> 00:59:12.675 Okay. 00:59:13.255 --> 00:59:19.005 And not thinking, not realizing that all my, you know, ex wife's friends are also 00:59:19.005 --> 00:59:20.685 on Facebook and we're all still friends. 00:59:20.695 --> 00:59:25.114 So they see this and they just start going in on me thinking that I had 00:59:25.284 --> 00:59:31.004 posted, you know, and one of them told me again, through Matt, through 00:59:31.004 --> 00:59:33.749 a message that said, you know what, it just, it probably would have just been 00:59:33.749 --> 00:59:35.155 better if you didn't come home at all. 00:59:37.455 --> 00:59:41.475 And then it started dawning on me and I, you know, I realized, I was 00:59:41.515 --> 00:59:42.555 thinking, I'm like, you know what? 00:59:42.775 --> 00:59:43.654 Yeah, they're right. 00:59:45.365 --> 00:59:46.105 100 percent right. 00:59:46.395 --> 00:59:47.525 What am I doing with my life? 00:59:47.555 --> 00:59:49.795 I'm working at, you know, two dead end jobs. 00:59:50.755 --> 00:59:51.745 I'm not really doing anything. 00:59:51.775 --> 00:59:52.575 I'm not successful. 00:59:52.585 --> 00:59:55.475 I've just lost, you know, what I thought was the love of my life. 00:59:56.125 --> 00:59:57.495 I haven't spoke to my family. 00:59:57.495 --> 00:59:59.045 I've lost all connections or like that. 00:59:59.045 --> 01:00:00.375 I don't really have any friends. 01:00:01.175 --> 01:00:01.955 Not making any money. 01:00:03.345 --> 01:00:05.745 Meanwhile, I'm like, I have. 01:00:06.215 --> 01:00:08.615 Buddies that were killed overseas that had families. 01:00:08.675 --> 01:00:09.825 They had children. 01:00:09.835 --> 01:00:11.205 They had a whole life ahead of them. 01:00:11.595 --> 01:00:12.685 They didn't get to come home. 01:00:12.775 --> 01:00:15.715 I got to come home, survive this injury, recover and what the 01:00:15.715 --> 01:00:16.575 hell am I doing with my life? 01:00:16.965 --> 01:00:17.185 You're right. 01:00:17.245 --> 01:00:18.325 I don't deserve this. 01:00:19.285 --> 01:00:21.105 So that morning I decided I'm going to kill myself. 01:00:22.765 --> 01:00:25.315 And the only reason I'm standing here right now, sitting, talking to you and 01:00:25.315 --> 01:00:29.195 where I am is because the platform in the subway was too crowded to get to. 01:00:31.995 --> 01:00:33.725 I was, I was going to jump in front of the subway. 01:00:33.725 --> 01:00:35.915 So I, that's the, that's my, my way to go. 01:00:36.555 --> 01:00:38.885 And I just couldn't get to the platform in time in order to 01:00:38.885 --> 01:00:39.805 get in front of the subway. 01:00:40.555 --> 01:00:42.205 And then I thought even shittier about myself. 01:00:42.205 --> 01:00:43.805 Cause I'm like, I can't even kill myself. 01:00:44.815 --> 01:00:46.485 I can't, I'm not even successful at that. 01:00:46.495 --> 01:00:48.235 And I got really hit a really deep low. 01:00:48.235 --> 01:00:51.565 And then I had the weekend exercise scheduled and I went on it thinking 01:00:51.825 --> 01:00:55.005 the army was the one kind of, you know, comfortable spot for me or like that. 01:00:55.005 --> 01:00:56.565 It's where I thrived or like that. 01:00:56.575 --> 01:00:59.095 And I didn't even thrive on that weekend and I just broke down. 01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:03.760 So when I came forward and I, I, it all came out, I told the Sergeant, listen, 01:01:03.820 --> 01:01:06.200 I'm, I'm going to kill myself, man. 01:01:06.240 --> 01:01:08.640 Like I'm in, I'm in a horrible spot. 01:01:09.540 --> 01:01:13.250 All at that point within the unit, people started muckling onto me. 01:01:14.580 --> 01:01:16.400 Officers started being like, okay, well, hold on, like, 01:01:16.930 --> 01:01:17.840 there's something wrong here. 01:01:17.910 --> 01:01:20.400 We need to, he needs some help. 01:01:21.100 --> 01:01:22.720 So they directed me in the right direction. 01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:26.430 I did get finally in back into the MIR, which I didn't want to go. 01:01:26.890 --> 01:01:27.260 Yeah. 01:01:27.660 --> 01:01:30.370 But luckily at that point, a new doctor, uh, you know, a new 01:01:30.370 --> 01:01:31.910 officer taken over and like that. 01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:33.440 And it was a much better experience. 01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:37.130 They realized that I was suffering from something and 01:01:37.130 --> 01:01:38.940 I got some psychological care. 01:01:40.680 --> 01:01:42.670 And that's where my road to recovery started happening. 01:01:42.770 --> 01:01:46.110 The very first thing they said, and anybody out there right now going through 01:01:46.110 --> 01:01:48.550 this and going through in the, you think you're in the worst spot of your life or 01:01:48.550 --> 01:01:51.560 things like that, and it doesn't matter if it's caused by trauma or you're just 01:01:51.560 --> 01:01:53.520 having a shitty, shitty fucking week. 01:01:53.620 --> 01:01:53.970 Yeah. 01:01:54.670 --> 01:01:59.270 Um, The first thing is always the same thing I tell everybody is you need sleep. 01:01:59.410 --> 01:02:01.050 Cause I guarantee your sleep, you're not sleeping. 01:02:01.050 --> 01:02:04.310 Your synapses are all screwed up. 01:02:04.310 --> 01:02:05.070 Your chemicals in your brain. 01:02:05.070 --> 01:02:05.860 Cause you're not sleeping. 01:02:06.870 --> 01:02:09.440 And, uh, how do you get sleep when you're not sleeping? 01:02:09.450 --> 01:02:11.960 Well, I, I, I, yeah, I was put on medication. 01:02:12.110 --> 01:02:12.500 Sure. 01:02:12.670 --> 01:02:16.720 And I tell you, oh my God, that first, that first morning waking 01:02:16.720 --> 01:02:22.750 up, I slept 10 hours straight and waking up, I wouldn't say I was 01:02:22.750 --> 01:02:25.580 necessarily rested, but it was just. 01:02:26.995 --> 01:02:28.594 Whoa, night and day. 01:02:28.595 --> 01:02:29.315 Oh, completely. 01:02:29.335 --> 01:02:29.625 Yeah. 01:02:30.315 --> 01:02:32.405 That outlook and that perspective that you have, people say, oh, 01:02:32.405 --> 01:02:33.475 it looked better in the morning. 01:02:33.475 --> 01:02:33.695 Right. 01:02:33.695 --> 01:02:38.025 And oftentimes it's just, you need that sleep, that regenerative, 01:02:38.045 --> 01:02:40.815 that rest process for you to have that, that different perspective. 01:02:41.435 --> 01:02:46.465 So that was the first step in the road to getting back to my recovery. 01:02:46.565 --> 01:02:51.065 Um, and starting to think straight again, or something like that. 01:02:51.385 --> 01:02:57.295 After the climb, um, I did, Troop, Troop, Troop Patriot, that's how I 01:02:57.295 --> 01:02:58.315 got involved with Wounded Warriors. 01:02:58.975 --> 01:03:01.715 Somehow after the climb, I guess they saw something in me. 01:03:02.065 --> 01:03:04.185 I became kind of the media darling for the climb. 01:03:05.295 --> 01:03:10.505 So Troop Patriot Love offered me a, uh, looking back at it now, I'm like, 01:03:10.505 --> 01:03:14.315 I should negotiate better, but, uh, they offered me an unpaid internship to 01:03:14.325 --> 01:03:15.785 come in and work as a marketing intern. 01:03:15.785 --> 01:03:20.135 And that's when I got my very first taste of kind of doing stuff for veterans. 01:03:21.005 --> 01:03:23.335 Seeing that there was a group out there, non government agency. 01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:28.220 Trying to, uh, help out Vetson and it was cool. 01:03:28.220 --> 01:03:31.500 I got handed a project working with Degree, the deodorant 01:03:31.500 --> 01:03:33.200 company and Tough Mudder. 01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:34.290 Cool. 01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:37.320 So I put together a team of Wounded Vets that was going to run Tough 01:03:37.340 --> 01:03:40.920 Mudder, but we didn't like, you know, yeah, the cross promotion was Degree. 01:03:41.630 --> 01:03:44.800 That's where the very first Degree do more commercial came from or I think that 01:03:45.090 --> 01:03:46.860 in Canada, uh, you can find on YouTube. 01:03:46.860 --> 01:03:48.100 We did commercials for them. 01:03:48.970 --> 01:03:50.280 Um, which I thought was kind of cool. 01:03:50.310 --> 01:03:52.280 And it was my first kind of experience project managing that. 01:03:53.705 --> 01:03:57.925 And, uh, but then my, my time came up at TPL. 01:03:57.935 --> 01:04:00.435 They decided we're not going to offer you a full time position. 01:04:00.445 --> 01:04:04.415 It was, you were, you were great for us, but you know, we're 01:04:04.465 --> 01:04:05.515 going in a different direction. 01:04:05.545 --> 01:04:05.825 Okay. 01:04:06.115 --> 01:04:07.345 No, no hard feelings or like that. 01:04:07.535 --> 01:04:09.885 Um, Oh, well, a little bit hard feelings to be honest with you. 01:04:09.895 --> 01:04:10.965 Cause I was like, yeah, come on. 01:04:10.965 --> 01:04:15.525 Like, like I, I'm a perfect for this next role, but, but then they'd kind of 01:04:15.525 --> 01:04:19.445 direct me to some other charities and that's when kind of wounded warriors 01:04:19.455 --> 01:04:23.325 started getting involved and they're like, we, We, you know, we've seen 01:04:23.325 --> 01:04:26.365 you, we've seen you at a couple of your talks you've done or things like that. 01:04:26.365 --> 01:04:27.165 We like what you have to say. 01:04:27.165 --> 01:04:28.225 We like your message. 01:04:28.965 --> 01:04:32.795 And they brought me in initially as a volunteer coordinator for Ontario and 01:04:32.795 --> 01:04:36.775 that kind of blossomed into, well, you know, we need a new financial director. 01:04:38.005 --> 01:04:38.895 Would you be interested? 01:04:38.895 --> 01:04:40.065 At the time I was working at a bank. 01:04:40.065 --> 01:04:42.115 So they're like, man, you must know finances. 01:04:43.035 --> 01:04:44.505 I was a mortgage analyst. 01:04:44.525 --> 01:04:45.745 I don't know how I even got that. 01:04:45.895 --> 01:04:47.935 To be honest, TD hired me. 01:04:48.015 --> 01:04:50.665 Um, Well, no, that's not true. 01:04:50.695 --> 01:04:55.955 I, I, I, I, at this point, I had enough experience in working with different 01:04:56.215 --> 01:05:00.495 charities that I learned that, you know, a lot of guys don't think as an infanteer, 01:05:00.505 --> 01:05:02.115 you have any skills to bring any job. 01:05:02.745 --> 01:05:04.595 You actually have a huge amount of transferable skills. 01:05:05.035 --> 01:05:06.455 You just got to learn how to sell them. 01:05:07.905 --> 01:05:11.095 So I remember I was actually, I remember I was at the interview for TD bank. 01:05:12.250 --> 01:05:15.200 And I'm in a room, you know, waiting and there's all these people with master's 01:05:15.200 --> 01:05:16.750 degrees in finance and stuff like that. 01:05:16.750 --> 01:05:20.940 And I'm like, yeah, I got to call a certificate in, you know, firefighting. 01:05:21.410 --> 01:05:21.620 Yeah. 01:05:21.620 --> 01:05:22.910 But I show up every day. 01:05:22.980 --> 01:05:23.610 I'm on time. 01:05:23.700 --> 01:05:24.080 That's true. 01:05:24.100 --> 01:05:27.890 But present well, I, so they said, name us a time and I'm like, oh, 01:05:27.890 --> 01:05:30.860 the interview is going okay, but I'm like, I don't really, I'm not really 01:05:30.860 --> 01:05:33.770 sure there's, they're, they're buying it, but I was told, okay, you gotta 01:05:33.770 --> 01:05:34.750 do something to set yourself apart. 01:05:34.750 --> 01:05:35.750 You gotta do something to set yourself apart. 01:05:35.750 --> 01:05:36.800 How do you sell your skills? 01:05:37.590 --> 01:05:40.060 And then you went and then I got the name us a time. 01:05:40.720 --> 01:05:43.440 That you exemplified customer service under stress. 01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:45.820 And I'm like, got it. 01:05:46.210 --> 01:05:46.570 Got it. 01:05:46.570 --> 01:05:46.930 Okay. 01:05:48.140 --> 01:05:51.680 Let me tell you this time I was in, you know, the, the, I was in the Argandab 01:05:51.830 --> 01:05:55.200 going through a village and then like, they're like, what, the what and where? 01:05:56.170 --> 01:06:00.700 Like, okay, I'm in Afghanistan and we're clearing a village and 01:06:00.700 --> 01:06:01.960 I come into, I come out of this. 01:06:01.970 --> 01:06:03.510 Now we didn't have a platoon with us. 01:06:03.510 --> 01:06:05.650 I literally had me and six guys and we're clearing a village, 01:06:05.660 --> 01:06:06.510 but this was completely. 01:06:07.365 --> 01:06:07.745 Okay. 01:06:07.915 --> 01:06:09.435 But it's what you had on hand or like that. 01:06:09.435 --> 01:06:12.805 So we're clearing this pocket of these, of like, you know, 01:06:12.855 --> 01:06:13.955 gray pots and stuff like that. 01:06:13.975 --> 01:06:18.965 And I enter into a gray pot, uh, to clear it and I get an AK for 01:06:18.965 --> 01:06:20.455 a kid with an AK 47 on my face. 01:06:22.565 --> 01:06:22.965 Okay. 01:06:23.035 --> 01:06:25.985 Well, he's got the drop on me if he wants to shoot, but is he Taliban? 01:06:25.985 --> 01:06:27.365 Is he just a civilian? 01:06:27.425 --> 01:06:28.595 Like everyone has a gun over there. 01:06:28.675 --> 01:06:33.735 I think that I had all within my ROEs to shoot him. 01:06:33.945 --> 01:06:34.305 Sure. 01:06:35.980 --> 01:06:37.650 And instead I held my hand out, 01:06:40.850 --> 01:06:45.150 managed to get him to put down his gun to me, you know, and sit there 01:06:45.150 --> 01:06:46.690 and just kind of talk and calm down. 01:06:46.690 --> 01:06:47.840 And then, so I could go about my way. 01:06:48.890 --> 01:06:52.760 So next thing you know, you know, he's, he's no longer my enemy. 01:06:52.770 --> 01:06:57.040 He's now my, he's now at least a non combatant. 01:06:58.890 --> 01:06:59.710 I didn't have to shoot a kid. 01:06:59.730 --> 01:07:00.820 I didn't have to kill anybody. 01:07:02.070 --> 01:07:03.000 I sold NATO. 01:07:03.560 --> 01:07:03.960 Yeah. 01:07:04.750 --> 01:07:10.240 Tell me, uh, more, uh, better customer service under stress. 01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:11.550 Beat that everyone else. 01:07:11.720 --> 01:07:12.060 Right? 01:07:12.610 --> 01:07:16.240 I'm not, and they, and they hired me based on that interview. 01:07:18.425 --> 01:07:21.655 And I went, I went in as a mid level manager, not a manager, 01:07:21.655 --> 01:07:25.225 but a mid level position or like that, uh, within the bank. 01:07:25.235 --> 01:07:27.975 So anyway, Wounded Warriors was like, he knows finances. 01:07:27.995 --> 01:07:29.615 Let's bring him over as a fundraising director. 01:07:29.665 --> 01:07:30.555 Like this offered me this role. 01:07:30.555 --> 01:07:32.535 And I was working with Wounded Warriors for a couple of 01:07:32.535 --> 01:07:33.815 years in that, in that role. 01:07:34.385 --> 01:07:38.655 At this point though, I was starting to feel that I went to all these different 01:07:38.745 --> 01:07:40.325 dinners, all these different events. 01:07:41.965 --> 01:07:46.325 And while I felt we were helping vets, I was It started feeling that my story 01:07:46.355 --> 01:07:48.575 was, was no longer becoming my story. 01:07:49.295 --> 01:07:50.505 The one I've just told you, it's like that. 01:07:50.505 --> 01:07:53.795 It was now becoming the narrative of a charity. 01:07:54.595 --> 01:07:54.935 Yeah. 01:07:55.885 --> 01:08:01.925 And I started feeling that I wasn't really, I need to reclaim my, my, my tale. 01:08:02.075 --> 01:08:02.675 Cause it's mine. 01:08:02.695 --> 01:08:03.465 It's no one else's. 01:08:05.295 --> 01:08:09.805 And, uh, that's weirdly enough. 01:08:09.875 --> 01:08:13.325 And again, just the way fate works, I guess, or it's like that. 01:08:13.825 --> 01:08:19.490 Uh, I got involved with Stoker Canada, but in not, but in the, in the sense that 01:08:19.500 --> 01:08:20.920 they want to get involved in helping vets. 01:08:22.340 --> 01:08:24.100 So they were my client for a while. 01:08:24.730 --> 01:08:25.230 Really? 01:08:25.250 --> 01:08:25.580 Yeah. 01:08:25.640 --> 01:08:26.830 They, they were my client. 01:08:26.850 --> 01:08:28.820 Uh, I went and did a couple of trade shows with them. 01:08:28.980 --> 01:08:29.230 Yeah. 01:08:29.280 --> 01:08:33.370 Uh, but as the Wounded Warrior, like director and like that, so I would 01:08:33.390 --> 01:08:35.960 do some cross promotions with them and they'd be able to push Wounded 01:08:35.960 --> 01:08:38.410 Warriors and get people to sign up and donate and stuff like that. 01:08:38.410 --> 01:08:41.380 And then I'd be there answering questions of the charity, but I 01:08:41.380 --> 01:08:43.330 was also really into firearms. 01:08:43.400 --> 01:08:46.740 I, I had my pal, I liked, you know, so I saw this, I'm like, this is a 01:08:46.750 --> 01:08:48.379 great opportunity to, to, to do this. 01:08:48.760 --> 01:08:51.630 And I was talking to a bunch of the sales reps and stuff like that, and then... 01:08:52.135 --> 01:08:54.295 When they would go off for lunch and do trade shows, I was the only 01:08:54.295 --> 01:08:55.435 one left sometimes in the booth. 01:08:55.445 --> 01:08:59.575 Then I'd be like, guys would come up and I'd start regurgitating what I heard 01:08:59.575 --> 01:09:01.445 about the guns and learning about them. 01:09:02.365 --> 01:09:05.725 Anyway, the GM at the time saw that I was selling the guns and I'm like, 01:09:05.775 --> 01:09:08.355 he's like, you're selling guns better than you're selling your charity. 01:09:09.455 --> 01:09:10.365 I'm like, well, you know. 01:09:10.535 --> 01:09:11.745 I'm passionate about this right now. 01:09:12.175 --> 01:09:12.695 Sorry. 01:09:12.895 --> 01:09:13.315 Sorry. 01:09:13.855 --> 01:09:15.555 You know, the director of the charity. 01:09:16.175 --> 01:09:20.260 I apologize in advance, but, uh, But yeah, I had to state that, you know, 01:09:20.260 --> 01:09:22.850 I was realized this is kind of a cool company, never thought a millionaire 01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:23.590 or anything would come of it. 01:09:23.590 --> 01:09:25.420 Just, it was a fun partner to work with. 01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:32.010 Um, and then unfortunately my predecessor at the, at the Stoger, uh, fell ill. 01:09:32.580 --> 01:09:32.970 He was, uh. 01:09:33.565 --> 01:09:36.425 Yeah, he can tell his own story, but I'm not here to tell his, but 01:09:36.575 --> 01:09:39.455 he fell ill and it was deemed that he, he had, he could no longer work. 01:09:40.475 --> 01:09:44.545 So I got called into Stoker, the Stoker Can offices. 01:09:44.545 --> 01:09:46.585 I'm thinking, okay, they're either going to, they're either going to cut 01:09:46.585 --> 01:09:50.975 me a check or they want to talk about, you know, if there's something we can 01:09:50.975 --> 01:09:53.235 do to help out their, their manager. 01:09:54.645 --> 01:09:58.055 So I'm sitting there with, uh, I'm with Spiros who's the, uh, now the, 01:09:58.735 --> 01:10:02.315 the GM of, uh, Norman Precision USA, but he was our GM at the time. 01:10:03.425 --> 01:10:07.745 And, uh, we're just kind of talking and we're kind of like, and I'm starting to 01:10:07.745 --> 01:10:11.175 see that, like the conversations kind of going towards, well, do you know 01:10:11.175 --> 01:10:12.445 anybody that would be good for this role? 01:10:12.445 --> 01:10:13.835 They need to be this, this, this, this, this. 01:10:13.835 --> 01:10:15.365 And I'm like, that's all me. 01:10:16.525 --> 01:10:17.245 So I call them out. 01:10:17.245 --> 01:10:19.595 I said, just, I'm like, are you offering me a job? 01:10:20.545 --> 01:10:21.495 He's like, do you want a job? 01:10:21.535 --> 01:10:22.645 I'm like, hell yeah. 01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:26.350 And I'm like, if you offer to me right now, I will go back to my 01:10:26.350 --> 01:10:27.810 charity and I will quit today. 01:10:28.870 --> 01:10:31.710 Not that I didn't want to still work with veterans, but it's just, 01:10:31.710 --> 01:10:33.450 I need a change needed to happen. 01:10:33.510 --> 01:10:34.500 Something had to change. 01:10:34.500 --> 01:10:34.910 Yes. 01:10:35.910 --> 01:10:38.380 He couldn't offer me a job right then and there, but he basically said, if the job, 01:10:38.380 --> 01:10:39.570 if you want the job, the job is yours. 01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:42.220 So a couple of weeks passed and we finally got the job off. 01:10:42.260 --> 01:10:44.760 I wasn't gonna do anything until I got a job offer and signed the contract. 01:10:45.660 --> 01:10:47.110 Um, but that was all done. 01:10:47.120 --> 01:10:48.870 I handed my resignation in to. 01:10:49.415 --> 01:10:53.205 To Wounded Warriors, and I've been with Stoker for eight years, almost eight 01:10:53.205 --> 01:10:56.815 years now, doing what I'm currently doing, which is, uh, military law enforcement. 01:10:59.790 --> 01:11:03.170 So working with, doing all the government contracting, working with the D and D 01:11:03.220 --> 01:11:07.500 to get them their new weapons systems, um, equipment, working with all law 01:11:07.500 --> 01:11:12.740 enforcement agencies in Canada, uh, helping out individual officers as well. 01:11:13.050 --> 01:11:13.280 Yeah. 01:11:13.320 --> 01:11:17.160 You know, for, even though it's not necessarily, you know, military product, 01:11:17.160 --> 01:11:19.750 but if they need any of their hunting needs and stuff, we do that as well. 01:11:19.770 --> 01:11:22.860 Yeah, it's just, it's customer service. 01:11:22.860 --> 01:11:23.640 Yeah, that's what it is. 01:11:23.650 --> 01:11:27.070 And, you know, and for, you know, getting the contacts there, but, uh, 01:11:28.140 --> 01:11:32.710 it's just, you know, it, and then in the last couple of years, in a lot, well, 01:11:32.710 --> 01:11:35.980 the last year I've kind of really been thinking of getting back into the, in 01:11:35.980 --> 01:11:37.500 some capacity, veterans helping out vets. 01:11:38.715 --> 01:11:42.825 Whether it's telling my story in some capacity, podcasts or something like that. 01:11:43.165 --> 01:11:45.915 I'm not sure I'm ready to start my own podcast yet, but in some regards 01:11:45.915 --> 01:11:51.355 of saying, you know, there is light out there, Afghanistan's over, but 01:11:51.605 --> 01:11:54.575 I'm sure there's guys still suffering from it, but now we've got a whole 01:11:54.595 --> 01:11:58.355 other group of people now deploying over to other areas, maybe not combat 01:11:58.355 --> 01:12:00.295 zones, but training accidents occur. 01:12:01.695 --> 01:12:04.825 Finding ways to systemize the message and let people know. 01:12:05.530 --> 01:12:09.690 Be able to communicate what you know in a way that other people will 01:12:09.690 --> 01:12:12.890 hear at the widest possible scale. 01:12:12.890 --> 01:12:15.970 And I think that's something to sit down, think about and what, 01:12:16.050 --> 01:12:17.410 what makes the most sense for you. 01:12:17.410 --> 01:12:19.860 But I mean, even just talking on this podcast, you bring up a 01:12:19.860 --> 01:12:21.570 bunch of points of similarities. 01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:23.200 People will have similarities. 01:12:23.200 --> 01:12:26.180 They might have different backgrounds, different life experiences, different 01:12:26.190 --> 01:12:30.500 tolerances, different, and different ways of interpreting things. 01:12:30.530 --> 01:12:33.210 You and I could be in the exact same situation, but just because 01:12:33.210 --> 01:12:36.610 of those differences, it affects us in completely different ways. 01:12:38.540 --> 01:12:41.970 Having these conversations, uh, normalizes it. 01:12:42.630 --> 01:12:46.820 I think that's probably the biggest, most important part and something I really 01:12:46.820 --> 01:12:52.400 appreciate about you is being able to have that conversation without it being you. 01:12:52.805 --> 01:12:53.125 Right. 01:12:53.395 --> 01:12:54.825 I am not my PTSD. 01:12:54.825 --> 01:13:01.015 I am not my it's I'm not the, the cut I caught on my arm before that's healed up. 01:13:01.015 --> 01:13:01.315 Right. 01:13:01.535 --> 01:13:01.755 Yeah. 01:13:01.755 --> 01:13:03.595 It sucked at the time, but it's healed. 01:13:03.595 --> 01:13:04.751 And now we're on there. 01:13:04.751 --> 01:13:12.155 And I think that's, uh, I, from my perspective, probably a massive value 01:13:12.235 --> 01:13:13.515 that you can provide to everyone else. 01:13:13.685 --> 01:13:14.725 I I'm hoping so. 01:13:14.825 --> 01:13:18.485 Um, you know, it's, it's. 01:13:19.705 --> 01:13:24.745 It sucks to say that I've lost almost as many friends overseas as 01:13:24.745 --> 01:13:26.615 I have that lost the battle at home. 01:13:28.075 --> 01:13:33.195 Um, you know, we, we, yeah, guys died over, you know, on tours like that. 01:13:33.875 --> 01:13:36.305 I've been to enough RAM ceremonies in my time that I never want to 01:13:36.305 --> 01:13:37.445 have to go to another one again. 01:13:38.265 --> 01:13:40.155 Um, but I've done them since we've come home. 01:13:40.285 --> 01:13:42.775 And that's the number that absolutely kills me with like that. 01:13:42.775 --> 01:13:45.345 Is that, and I was almost one of them myself. 01:13:46.025 --> 01:13:50.025 Well, I wanted to talk about that cause it's an interesting thing. 01:13:50.025 --> 01:13:54.645 And you said the Facebook post, would it be better if he just 01:13:54.645 --> 01:13:57.695 didn't come back or it would be better if he just didn't come back. 01:13:58.655 --> 01:14:01.065 And you said, yeah, they're right. 01:14:01.255 --> 01:14:01.815 Yeah. 01:14:01.865 --> 01:14:02.975 I should kill myself. 01:14:03.075 --> 01:14:10.995 And I think the disconnect that's very difficult for a lot of people to see when 01:14:10.995 --> 01:14:15.085 they lack the sleep, when they're lacking the direction, when they're lacking, maybe 01:14:15.085 --> 01:14:18.615 their substances, maybe they're not eating right when they're exercising, right. 01:14:18.625 --> 01:14:21.745 All, all of these different things that come into it is that. 01:14:22.335 --> 01:14:24.535 Logically, maybe they were right. 01:14:24.655 --> 01:14:28.185 Maybe there was a part of you that shouldn't be coming back. 01:14:28.395 --> 01:14:32.035 You need to change and it doesn't have to be a physical death. 01:14:32.225 --> 01:14:35.715 It can be a spiritual death or a, right. 01:14:35.905 --> 01:14:38.375 There's a part of you that that's not right. 01:14:38.695 --> 01:14:43.665 That needs to change and it can die as you don't run away, but you run 01:14:43.665 --> 01:14:45.075 towards something more desirable. 01:14:45.345 --> 01:14:47.275 And I think that's the hard part that a lot of people. 01:14:48.175 --> 01:14:52.995 Uh, perhaps get stuck up on when they're lacking all that 01:14:52.995 --> 01:14:54.055 sleep and not thinking, right. 01:14:54.095 --> 01:14:56.675 It's like, okay, logically, yeah, there's something that's not right. 01:14:56.715 --> 01:14:56.975 Okay. 01:14:56.975 --> 01:14:57.815 It needs to stop. 01:14:58.625 --> 01:14:59.465 How do I stop it? 01:14:59.495 --> 01:14:59.755 Yeah. 01:15:00.465 --> 01:15:00.735 Yeah. 01:15:00.795 --> 01:15:05.385 And you know, it's, and especially after everything we've gone through, 01:15:05.555 --> 01:15:07.925 just as a, not just the military, but everyone, everyone has gone 01:15:07.925 --> 01:15:10.805 through over the last three years, whatever, however long it's been. 01:15:11.535 --> 01:15:14.665 I think there's a little more understanding of, you 01:15:14.665 --> 01:15:15.795 know, what mental health. 01:15:16.920 --> 01:15:21.420 Not is, but maybe what more, what mental health is not right. 01:15:21.480 --> 01:15:22.670 Um, everyone's stressed. 01:15:22.710 --> 01:15:25.670 I, I I've, I've, I've talked to a couple of groups since the pandemic 01:15:25.670 --> 01:15:30.280 and I'm just like, I, I, I about three or four times a year, I, I guess, 01:15:30.280 --> 01:15:33.750 lecture at Centennial college in Toronto to the, of all people, to the 01:15:33.750 --> 01:15:40.440 RMT students, um, to explain them what, what, you know, sometimes what mental, 01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:43.450 what military combat trauma can do. 01:15:43.910 --> 01:15:47.080 Not to just a military member, but similar experiences amongst first 01:15:47.080 --> 01:15:50.940 responders, police, firefighters, these are some of your clients you're going 01:15:50.940 --> 01:15:57.640 to get and how typically, um, I'll register with a massage therapist. 01:15:57.660 --> 01:16:00.240 That's going to be, you're going to be the first gateway to their therapy. 01:16:00.830 --> 01:16:03.340 They won't go see a therapist because I'm not weak. 01:16:03.400 --> 01:16:04.430 I'm not going to go talk to someone. 01:16:04.580 --> 01:16:04.800 Right. 01:16:04.820 --> 01:16:07.880 They won't go, you know, to anyone, they'll do a doctor, 01:16:07.880 --> 01:16:09.030 but I'll go for a massage. 01:16:09.230 --> 01:16:09.590 Sure. 01:16:09.640 --> 01:16:10.369 Because that's, that's true. 01:16:10.670 --> 01:16:12.230 That's not the weird about that or like that. 01:16:12.230 --> 01:16:12.510 Right. 01:16:13.460 --> 01:16:15.130 Young, attractive girl over at, you know, like, like, 01:16:15.130 --> 01:16:16.130 like, like, of course, why not? 01:16:16.130 --> 01:16:18.060 When I could do that, you're going to be the very first point of 01:16:18.060 --> 01:16:20.640 contact and the body holds trauma. 01:16:20.690 --> 01:16:21.530 That's a good point. 01:16:22.330 --> 01:16:27.430 The very first time I went for a massage, again, it, I, I, I, I teared up because 01:16:27.430 --> 01:16:28.630 they want to start working on my hip. 01:16:29.270 --> 01:16:32.040 So I've heard this time again, the body holds trauma. 01:16:32.090 --> 01:16:33.000 What does that mean? 01:16:33.885 --> 01:16:34.625 How does that happen? 01:16:34.685 --> 01:16:36.985 I, you know, I can't have explained how it happens exactly. 01:16:37.015 --> 01:16:40.905 I'm not, I don't have enough medical knowledge to explain it. 01:16:41.545 --> 01:16:45.015 What I can say is that literally in something within your muscles or 01:16:45.015 --> 01:16:49.815 anything like that, it holds almost memories of that trauma that occurred 01:16:49.825 --> 01:16:50.935 in that incident or anything like that. 01:16:51.505 --> 01:16:55.165 Sometimes when you, like, I know when I wake up on a cold morning, every 01:16:55.165 --> 01:16:59.165 injury I've had to my, all 15 years of infantry to my experience with my knees. 01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:01.990 My, you know, hamstring tears I've had, stuff like that. 01:17:02.240 --> 01:17:03.400 Oh, I feel every single one of those. 01:17:03.460 --> 01:17:03.780 Yeah. 01:17:05.260 --> 01:17:08.080 That's different type of trauma, but it's still there. 01:17:08.090 --> 01:17:08.750 That's the easiest. 01:17:09.050 --> 01:17:12.400 But think about that is you've suffered a major physical injury, you've 01:17:12.400 --> 01:17:15.840 recovered, but there's mental impact that things that have happened there, 01:17:15.990 --> 01:17:18.890 your brain is no different from your heart or any other muscle with it. 01:17:18.900 --> 01:17:22.230 It's still sending out, you know, chemicals and all working together. 01:17:23.360 --> 01:17:27.310 And that somehow cast, you know, where you had that trauma, 01:17:27.380 --> 01:17:28.570 it stays there, like that. 01:17:28.580 --> 01:17:31.300 And sometimes when you go for a massage and I'm saying this to anyone that's 01:17:32.130 --> 01:17:35.990 going through this or like that the very first time you go, don't be surprised 01:17:35.990 --> 01:17:42.770 if you have a real emotional reaction because it's, and I tell that to the RMT 01:17:42.770 --> 01:17:46.740 students as well as don't be surprised if they have an emotional reaction to you, 01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:48.280 you know, touching them doing your work. 01:17:49.275 --> 01:17:52.255 Um, because it very likely will happen. 01:17:53.495 --> 01:17:57.715 Also, I was always tell them, build your, you know, build your, your inner 01:17:57.715 --> 01:18:03.465 circle of trusted, you know, uh, medical professionals with you, psychologists, 01:18:03.475 --> 01:18:08.325 psychiatrists, doctors, because you being their first point of contact, they, they 01:18:08.325 --> 01:18:11.725 trust you, especially if they come into you for a long time, they trust you. 01:18:12.015 --> 01:18:13.855 Now I also tell RMT students. 01:18:16.360 --> 01:18:18.100 It's probably going to be your best client you've ever had. 01:18:18.100 --> 01:18:20.010 Cause they're going to come to you for life if they trust you. 01:18:20.010 --> 01:18:21.730 They're like, yeah, I'm going to go to them. 01:18:21.740 --> 01:18:22.330 I was like that. 01:18:23.090 --> 01:18:25.170 Um, so you've got a lifelong client there. 01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:25.780 That's good for you. 01:18:25.990 --> 01:18:26.760 That's good for your business. 01:18:26.780 --> 01:18:30.350 But, uh, but you only can treat so much when it's like that. 01:18:30.350 --> 01:18:30.520 Right. 01:18:30.520 --> 01:18:32.690 And you don't want to take on that, that trauma either. 01:18:32.720 --> 01:18:33.210 It's like that. 01:18:33.260 --> 01:18:37.490 But, uh, so build that client, build up that professional network because 01:18:37.570 --> 01:18:40.800 there might be a time when you say, Hey, like, you know, I've, I might 01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:41.950 know someone you want to talk to. 01:18:42.320 --> 01:18:47.990 And normalizing the, and having the right words to express it makes it a lot easier. 01:18:48.000 --> 01:18:48.480 Absolutely. 01:18:48.530 --> 01:18:48.840 Right. 01:18:49.500 --> 01:18:54.170 If someone had told me, you know, I, the very first therapy I ever had 01:18:54.240 --> 01:18:57.140 in that four year stint, when, when the army wasn't looking after me 01:18:57.750 --> 01:18:59.280 was the only therapy I had was RMT. 01:18:59.980 --> 01:19:03.630 Cause I had a friend that was an RMT, uh, that owned an RMT clinic and she 01:19:03.630 --> 01:19:04.650 was willing to treat me for free. 01:19:06.135 --> 01:19:06.555 Perfect. 01:19:06.605 --> 01:19:07.045 That was it. 01:19:07.855 --> 01:19:08.725 You know, I was going to get that. 01:19:08.725 --> 01:19:10.505 I got lucky enough that I had that. 01:19:10.505 --> 01:19:11.464 Sure. 01:19:11.465 --> 01:19:11.855 But. 01:19:12.255 --> 01:19:17.985 So it's building up that support base or it's like that, um, building up 01:19:18.105 --> 01:19:22.235 both for the, the practitioner, but also for nor, I just said, normalizing 01:19:22.235 --> 01:19:23.785 it for the actual soldier themselves. 01:19:23.785 --> 01:19:25.645 Normally I'm asking for the, for their first responder. 01:19:25.645 --> 01:19:28.625 No, I said for the everyday person, because everyone's going through stress. 01:19:28.775 --> 01:19:29.115 Sure. 01:19:29.145 --> 01:19:32.415 I said, when I taught the RMT students since the pandemic, I'm just like, 01:19:32.635 --> 01:19:33.695 okay, who's stressed out here? 01:19:34.155 --> 01:19:34.905 No one puts up their hand. 01:19:34.905 --> 01:19:37.035 I'm like, okay, BS guys, come on. 01:19:37.365 --> 01:19:39.375 We just went through a global pandemic. 01:19:39.745 --> 01:19:40.945 The whole world shut down. 01:19:42.945 --> 01:19:45.935 Everyone here should have their hands up that you guys are stressed out. 01:19:45.935 --> 01:19:49.765 If anyone who's not, I seriously want to know one, your trick and 01:19:49.765 --> 01:19:51.945 two, you're a psychopath, dude. 01:19:51.945 --> 01:19:55.085 Like you don't feel things. 01:19:55.305 --> 01:19:56.125 Yeah. 01:19:56.205 --> 01:19:57.645 So, but I tell them. 01:19:58.210 --> 01:20:00.020 It's nothing wrong with that. 01:20:00.490 --> 01:20:05.880 You've just joined the rest of our community of stressed out PTSD 01:20:05.890 --> 01:20:07.580 stricken first responders and soldiers. 01:20:07.590 --> 01:20:10.110 We've been dealing with this for 10, 15 years. 01:20:10.840 --> 01:20:13.860 So there's, I think DSM four. 01:20:14.110 --> 01:20:20.310 Uh, it says, uh, PTSD needs a life threatening trigger to be, I think DSM 01:20:20.800 --> 01:20:25.020 five says CPTSD or complex PSD, PTSD. 01:20:26.100 --> 01:20:27.840 Did they remove that life threatening thing? 01:20:28.030 --> 01:20:29.000 I, I, I don't know. 01:20:29.360 --> 01:20:34.980 Um, but yeah, I mean, there there's, uh, I mean, mine was definitely. 01:20:35.985 --> 01:20:37.725 There was definitely a life threatening element to mine. 01:20:37.725 --> 01:20:42.355 Uh, I, I, I, I, my heart did stop on the helicopter ride back to CAF from 01:20:42.355 --> 01:20:43.445 the injury incident or like that. 01:20:43.445 --> 01:20:46.015 I had to be, I had to be brought, brought back and stuff like that. 01:20:46.385 --> 01:20:47.335 Again, no memory of it. 01:20:47.940 --> 01:20:51.070 But being in a coma for three weeks, you have a life threatening injury. 01:20:51.080 --> 01:20:53.990 I think that your brain's basically telling your organs are shut down. 01:20:54.590 --> 01:20:58.980 I think, I think a lot of people, but there was a chocolate bar guy. 01:20:59.040 --> 01:21:00.210 Did we talk about today? 01:21:00.470 --> 01:21:01.340 Uh, you know what? 01:21:01.340 --> 01:21:03.420 No, but on the other podcast, you did or something like that. 01:21:03.420 --> 01:21:03.770 Okay. 01:21:03.770 --> 01:21:03.870 Yeah. 01:21:03.870 --> 01:21:04.200 Yeah. 01:21:04.280 --> 01:21:06.030 So, uh, yeah, that's right. 01:21:06.030 --> 01:21:09.660 Nathan and I talked about the chocolate bar guy, the guy who goes into for 01:21:09.690 --> 01:21:11.080 people who haven't listened to that one. 01:21:11.230 --> 01:21:15.025 Um, Ordinary individual, this guy's not a soldier. 01:21:15.025 --> 01:21:20.265 He's not a first responder goes into his corner store, buys a chocolate bar, uh, 01:21:20.275 --> 01:21:24.735 starts eating it, gets halfway through and it's full of maggots and he goes back, 01:21:25.115 --> 01:21:28.855 guys like, I'll give you another bar, give you a refund, whatever it is, day's over. 01:21:28.885 --> 01:21:29.425 I mean. 01:21:30.505 --> 01:21:30.845 All right. 01:21:30.845 --> 01:21:31.865 So he eats some maggots, right? 01:21:31.865 --> 01:21:32.115 Yeah. 01:21:32.265 --> 01:21:33.635 That's most people would look at it like that. 01:21:33.655 --> 01:21:36.865 But then he stops, he thinks everyone's laughing at him. 01:21:36.865 --> 01:21:39.055 He thinks everyone's going to be talking about the maggot eater. 01:21:39.325 --> 01:21:41.515 Doesn't want to go to his, I guess he's involved with the church. 01:21:41.515 --> 01:21:43.265 Doesn't want to go to the church group because he figures 01:21:43.265 --> 01:21:45.065 or starts avoiding things. 01:21:45.065 --> 01:21:46.585 He starts having reoccurring thoughts. 01:21:46.585 --> 01:21:53.535 He starts and all of these typical PTSD type, uh, symptoms from eating 01:21:53.535 --> 01:21:54.725 a chocolate bar with maggots in it. 01:21:54.725 --> 01:21:58.385 So when you're talking about everyone's stressed, everyone's got something. 01:21:58.770 --> 01:22:05.410 I think that there is a value to people understanding that whether or not they 01:22:05.410 --> 01:22:10.650 meet a clinical definition or not in some book that a guy made, if they're 01:22:10.650 --> 01:22:13.740 seeing these sort of things that they're going through, there is a path 01:22:13.740 --> 01:22:16.820 forward that they can take that others have taken that's proven successful. 01:22:17.160 --> 01:22:19.000 And I think you raised an excellent point there. 01:22:19.000 --> 01:22:25.660 And I think one of the things that needs to be said, and I mean, ask any, 01:22:25.660 --> 01:22:29.690 you know, Any, especially, but if you guys ask any veteran out there, it's 01:22:29.690 --> 01:22:35.530 like that there is no community that is harder on ourselves than our community. 01:22:36.690 --> 01:22:40.630 And you were going to find, and it happened to me where I, I came forward 01:22:40.640 --> 01:22:44.240 with my injury, even years after I came forward with my injury, with my, my, you 01:22:44.240 --> 01:22:47.450 know, problem system like that, where I was told, you know, what's wrong with you? 01:22:47.490 --> 01:22:48.130 Just suck it up. 01:22:48.150 --> 01:22:49.820 But what, what, what is your problem? 01:22:49.820 --> 01:22:50.810 Or it's like that really like. 01:22:50.880 --> 01:22:51.790 So and so's got it worse. 01:22:51.970 --> 01:22:52.470 So I've done it. 01:22:52.645 --> 01:22:55.905 You know, like, Oh, well, and, and there's, we're always comparing tours. 01:22:56.215 --> 01:22:57.425 It's like, Oh, well, you went to it. 01:22:57.455 --> 01:23:02.425 I, I remember I spoke at a, uh, at a, uh, charitable bike, bike, 01:23:02.465 --> 01:23:04.495 like motorcycle, like motorcycle rally or something like that. 01:23:04.815 --> 01:23:07.435 And all these were, it was one of the veterans motorcycle groups. 01:23:08.275 --> 01:23:10.305 And I didn't know too much about them, but I was like, yeah, they 01:23:10.305 --> 01:23:11.365 asked me to come out and talk to them. 01:23:11.365 --> 01:23:12.165 I'm like, absolutely. 01:23:12.165 --> 01:23:14.085 I'll, I'll, I'll talk to you before you kick off your ride. 01:23:15.425 --> 01:23:17.595 And I was told, tell your story. 01:23:18.055 --> 01:23:18.285 Okay. 01:23:18.285 --> 01:23:19.155 So I told my story. 01:23:19.155 --> 01:23:20.035 That's what I just told you. 01:23:20.045 --> 01:23:20.935 It was about Afghanistan. 01:23:22.365 --> 01:23:27.665 And later I got a seething, angry email from the organizer, from the, 01:23:27.685 --> 01:23:30.625 of the president of the riding company saying, you didn't want to talk about 01:23:30.625 --> 01:23:34.585 Bosnia, all these guys that serve in Bosnia and Kosovo and Rwanda. 01:23:35.175 --> 01:23:35.475 Sure. 01:23:35.495 --> 01:23:36.835 I'm like, okay. 01:23:38.930 --> 01:23:41.090 Was I supposed to, but absolutely. 01:23:41.190 --> 01:23:42.260 Why did you not talk about that? 01:23:42.320 --> 01:23:43.150 I wasn't there. 01:23:44.470 --> 01:23:45.419 Be hard for you to talk about. 01:23:45.420 --> 01:23:47.740 I was in grade school when you guys deployed there. 01:23:47.740 --> 01:23:52.260 Like I was still, you know, I was eight years old when you deployed into Bosnia 01:23:52.550 --> 01:23:55.030 or Rwanda, my war was Afghanistan. 01:23:55.440 --> 01:23:56.550 Well, that wasn't a real war. 01:23:57.035 --> 01:23:57.575 Okay. 01:23:57.575 --> 01:23:57.825 Here we go. 01:23:58.465 --> 01:24:01.745 So this whole thing starts to, we are horrible to ourselves, 01:24:01.755 --> 01:24:02.655 to each other and like that. 01:24:02.675 --> 01:24:04.735 And that leads, I think, to the same thing. 01:24:04.735 --> 01:24:06.565 This guy at the chocolate, you start getting feelings of, 01:24:06.605 --> 01:24:07.945 well, I don't have it that bad. 01:24:08.085 --> 01:24:08.595 Right. 01:24:08.975 --> 01:24:10.705 People are going to laugh at me if I come forward. 01:24:11.245 --> 01:24:13.515 And I'm really worried about this next generation of soldiers 01:24:13.515 --> 01:24:16.225 deploying because they're deploying to places like Latvia, Jordan. 01:24:16.605 --> 01:24:20.355 Poland, UK to train the Ukrainians and for, and to do operation, 01:24:20.355 --> 01:24:22.705 impact of mop up operations in Iraq. 01:24:23.245 --> 01:24:25.655 Who knows if we're going to be involved in the middle east in some 01:24:25.655 --> 01:24:26.995 regard with what's going on there. 01:24:27.545 --> 01:24:31.695 Africa probably the, if we have any troops left and I think we have some troops in 01:24:31.695 --> 01:24:35.135 Africa, but especially in like the Western African regions, that's the closest thing 01:24:35.135 --> 01:24:38.105 you have to putting troops in an area where there's an open conflict where 01:24:38.105 --> 01:24:39.405 Canadians could actually get shot at. 01:24:41.180 --> 01:24:45.100 So now you have all these Afghan vets and ones that are still left over, but the 01:24:45.100 --> 01:24:50.920 ones that are now gone out that are, are we going to treat the, the guys that are 01:24:50.920 --> 01:24:56.000 deploying to Latvia as somehow their tour was less than ours, because we got shot at 01:24:56.030 --> 01:24:58.920 and they're just training the Ukrainians that are going to go off to war. 01:24:58.920 --> 01:25:02.460 It's not, it's an unfair comparison. 01:25:02.610 --> 01:25:02.910 Sure. 01:25:03.810 --> 01:25:05.010 If, if a soldier gets. 01:25:05.010 --> 01:25:05.540 It'll happen. 01:25:05.730 --> 01:25:06.350 Oh, absolutely. 01:25:06.350 --> 01:25:07.280 I know, I know, I know it will. 01:25:07.960 --> 01:25:09.320 But a soldier gets hurt in training. 01:25:09.600 --> 01:25:12.230 Why is it any different from the fact that I got hurt on a 01:25:12.230 --> 01:25:13.520 combat patrol in Afghanistan? 01:25:13.540 --> 01:25:15.880 And I wasn't injured due to combat action. 01:25:15.880 --> 01:25:18.310 I don't have a sacrifice medal because I don't qualify for it. 01:25:19.040 --> 01:25:21.070 That hurt, that, that bugged me for a long time. 01:25:21.120 --> 01:25:21.510 Sure. 01:25:21.550 --> 01:25:22.210 I can see that. 01:25:22.650 --> 01:25:23.020 Right. 01:25:23.750 --> 01:25:29.230 Not that I wanted an extra piece of bling on my chest, you know, do, but 01:25:29.460 --> 01:25:33.915 you know, that's not, we, we, we, We, we, we measure ourselves with the amount 01:25:33.915 --> 01:25:35.105 of medals you got or things like that. 01:25:35.105 --> 01:25:36.285 It's not a fair comparison. 01:25:36.955 --> 01:25:41.655 Uh, but it's the fact that, you know, you, you have guys now deploying 01:25:41.655 --> 01:25:44.515 in non combat roles, but they do a very, very serious, important job. 01:25:44.515 --> 01:25:46.435 They're away from home for months on end. 01:25:46.815 --> 01:25:48.015 They've left their families. 01:25:48.765 --> 01:25:52.505 Training incidents, training accidents are just as deadly as combat related 01:25:52.545 --> 01:25:53.575 incidents or things like that. 01:25:54.145 --> 01:25:54.535 And. 01:25:55.090 --> 01:25:58.410 I don't, you know, I really hope that any of these guys could come back where if 01:25:58.410 --> 01:26:01.590 they were involved in a serious training accident, where they got hurt, it doesn't 01:26:01.590 --> 01:26:04.890 diminish at all what they're going through either physically or mentally, 01:26:05.350 --> 01:26:09.220 the fact, and I've heard it from other, even today, I've heard it from people when 01:26:09.220 --> 01:26:10.620 I said, well, I got hurt in Afghanistan. 01:26:10.620 --> 01:26:14.330 My story was being told to a group of vets and they got hurt in a training 01:26:14.330 --> 01:26:18.470 accident in Canada and they're like, yeah, but like my injury is not as, it's 01:26:18.480 --> 01:26:20.050 not as, it's not as severe as yours. 01:26:20.950 --> 01:26:21.320 Why? 01:26:21.410 --> 01:26:22.710 Well, because it didn't occur on tour. 01:26:22.950 --> 01:26:24.210 What, what does that matter? 01:26:25.015 --> 01:26:31.305 It doesn't you lost a leg, you know, I'm, I'm still intact or like, you know, 01:26:31.305 --> 01:26:34.035 like, like you've had, you actually have severe, you have more severe injuries 01:26:34.035 --> 01:26:37.185 than I do, but it doesn't matter what, what, you know, like the fact of the 01:26:37.185 --> 01:26:41.805 matter is, is that you were injured in your line of service, same thing 01:26:41.805 --> 01:26:43.795 as a cop, you know, you were injured. 01:26:44.245 --> 01:26:46.675 I talked to tons of cops are like, yeah, but you were injured in Afghanistan, man. 01:26:46.675 --> 01:26:47.855 That's like serious stuff. 01:26:48.410 --> 01:26:53.810 Dude, you got shot by, by some gang banger or you got the crap beat out 01:26:53.810 --> 01:26:56.870 of you by a bunch of, you know, drug, you know, like drug guys or like that, 01:26:57.120 --> 01:27:02.400 when you were, you know, had to go in alone or like that, um, you know, it, 01:27:02.400 --> 01:27:04.310 it really, why are we comparing this? 01:27:06.450 --> 01:27:08.290 I think that's a massive point, right? 01:27:08.290 --> 01:27:13.970 Like people should be, I've got a couple of, and I'm going to just ADHD 01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:18.040 diverge here just a little bit, a couple of questions about things we 01:27:18.040 --> 01:27:20.420 talked about earlier, which is, um, 01:27:25.890 --> 01:27:31.760 Uh, supplying arms and equipment to the military, different armies. 01:27:31.770 --> 01:27:35.300 But you were saying it's kind of like a brotherhood working with 01:27:35.300 --> 01:27:37.260 the competitors as well out there. 01:27:37.320 --> 01:27:37.450 Yeah. 01:27:37.450 --> 01:27:39.310 I guess I should probably talk about job here, since that's 01:27:39.310 --> 01:27:41.420 what I'm really here to do. 01:27:41.990 --> 01:27:45.690 Uh, Believe it or not, I do work for Breda, uh, despite everything I've said. 01:27:45.690 --> 01:27:46.000 Yeah. 01:27:46.030 --> 01:27:52.370 Um, so yeah, so, uh, just like the army is in Canada is fairly small. 01:27:52.610 --> 01:27:54.100 The defense industry is even smaller. 01:27:54.520 --> 01:27:54.920 Yeah. 01:27:54.970 --> 01:27:58.150 There's only, you know, a couple, you know, there's only so many players in 01:27:58.150 --> 01:28:00.210 the, in the, in the game or anything like that, uh, we're one of them. 01:28:01.230 --> 01:28:08.939 And, uh, so, you know, the Canadian army only puts out so many, you know, 01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:13.960 Uh, tenders a year, you know, for especially, particularly for firearms, 01:28:13.960 --> 01:28:17.790 you know, it's a, it's a hard, you know, it's not always everyone's competing 01:28:17.790 --> 01:28:19.030 for the same thing or like that. 01:28:19.070 --> 01:28:22.530 Uh, you know, last year, back in 2020, we won the sniper rifle 01:28:22.530 --> 01:28:23.660 contract or something like that. 01:28:23.670 --> 01:28:25.440 And it was a big win for us. 01:28:25.440 --> 01:28:27.640 It was great, but we were competing against, you know, 01:28:27.690 --> 01:28:28.980 three other bidders and like that. 01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:30.350 And we had a bit, we had outbid them. 01:28:30.875 --> 01:28:34.505 A lot of people think that that would may lead to an environment of 01:28:34.505 --> 01:28:37.365 extreme competitiveness and well, like, I don't like that guy or 01:28:37.505 --> 01:28:41.295 animosity and animosity and just don't talk to him or anything like that. 01:28:42.525 --> 01:28:46.545 But it, it is, as I said, as you said, it really kind of is a bit 01:28:46.545 --> 01:28:47.785 of a brotherhood in its own right. 01:28:48.525 --> 01:28:52.465 Um, I'm going to, uh, later, well, actually we have, so we have a 01:28:52.465 --> 01:28:56.375 range day tomorrow, uh, at the Range Langley, uh, here in BC. 01:28:56.375 --> 01:28:59.295 It's one of our, it's our first ever BDT range day we're running. 01:28:59.855 --> 01:29:01.535 Uh, so I got, got to promote that. 01:29:01.535 --> 01:29:01.743 Yeah. 01:29:01.743 --> 01:29:03.823 Uh, all military law enforcement are allowed to come out. 01:29:03.823 --> 01:29:04.654 It's a free event. 01:29:05.415 --> 01:29:06.155 What's it going to look like? 01:29:07.675 --> 01:29:11.065 We're going to wait and see, uh, really happy to arrange Langley 01:29:11.135 --> 01:29:12.365 came out and support us on that. 01:29:12.425 --> 01:29:16.125 I should plug this after it's like that, but get back to the point. 01:29:16.125 --> 01:29:19.445 But, uh, but then there's OPEX West operator expo West 01:29:19.445 --> 01:29:22.815 happening in Burnaby and my fellow 01:29:26.215 --> 01:29:29.475 We're all promoting, you know, our, our goods. 01:29:29.865 --> 01:29:32.745 We're all competing for the Slack same, you know, maybe five tenders that 01:29:32.745 --> 01:29:33.615 are out there or something like that. 01:29:34.495 --> 01:29:38.565 And, uh, we also are all probably going to meet up after 01:29:38.565 --> 01:29:39.665 the show and go out for beers. 01:29:40.205 --> 01:29:40.725 Amazing. 01:29:41.490 --> 01:29:45.690 Like, you know, I, we, we actually let each other know when tenders come out. 01:29:46.640 --> 01:29:46.990 Awesome. 01:29:47.470 --> 01:29:49.070 Like I don't have to notify. 01:29:49.140 --> 01:29:50.370 That's kind of unheard of. 01:29:50.730 --> 01:29:52.860 That's unheard of in other industries. 01:29:53.090 --> 01:29:56.820 Like I, even especially also if like it's happened where I'm like, I don't 01:29:56.830 --> 01:29:59.290 have necessarily a product that I think could compete on this tender, but I 01:29:59.290 --> 01:30:02.790 know someone that will, I will send them that tender, even though technically. 01:30:04.010 --> 01:30:05.940 I could be like, well, I sent that to you. 01:30:05.940 --> 01:30:07.980 So you owe me a finder's fee or anything like that. 01:30:08.020 --> 01:30:11.660 Or I'll, I'll find, or I could find a product that was a bid it's I'd 01:30:11.660 --> 01:30:13.240 rather send them off to somebody else. 01:30:13.740 --> 01:30:14.530 That's good business. 01:30:14.530 --> 01:30:18.200 In my opinion, I've never been a fan of the, the finder's fee, the 01:30:18.200 --> 01:30:21.360 referral fee, the, cause you're always going to question the, um. 01:30:22.105 --> 01:30:23.975 The motivation behind it afterwards. 01:30:24.145 --> 01:30:27.765 And I truly believe, you know, people say, you know, business isn't personal. 01:30:29.505 --> 01:30:30.275 I disagree. 01:30:30.325 --> 01:30:33.175 I think business is based on personal relationships, which 01:30:33.175 --> 01:30:37.075 require trust, which are built over time and all business is personal. 01:30:37.105 --> 01:30:38.965 You make pragmatic decisions within that. 01:30:40.160 --> 01:30:41.540 You got to respect the personal. 01:30:41.550 --> 01:30:44.840 Well, and we just said their business, you know, isn't person business 01:30:44.840 --> 01:30:46.140 is extremely personal for me. 01:30:46.200 --> 01:30:46.580 Right. 01:30:46.680 --> 01:30:47.670 I was an operator. 01:30:47.990 --> 01:30:49.050 I was a door kicker. 01:30:49.360 --> 01:30:53.010 I was the guy I'm, I was the guy that was, that we're trying to get these, this 01:30:53.010 --> 01:30:58.690 equipment to, and I've told, you know, all my clients that, If you pick, you 01:30:58.690 --> 01:31:01.010 know, if you put out a tender or you're, you're looking, you're interested in a 01:31:01.010 --> 01:31:02.640 product, if you pick my product, great. 01:31:02.690 --> 01:31:03.640 It's great for my bottom line. 01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:04.150 Sure. 01:31:04.620 --> 01:31:06.820 We, you know, it keeps the lights on our shop. 01:31:06.820 --> 01:31:08.060 It keeps me employed. 01:31:08.300 --> 01:31:09.030 That's important to me. 01:31:09.650 --> 01:31:11.730 Um, you know, life's not cheap right now. 01:31:11.730 --> 01:31:15.720 I was like that, you know, uh, but, uh, and neither is, oh, neither is 01:31:15.730 --> 01:31:22.020 daycare or God like another mortgage payment in itself, but, uh, but at the 01:31:22.020 --> 01:31:26.660 end of the day, my ultimate goal is to make sure you have the best product. 01:31:28.925 --> 01:31:32.765 If that's not my product and one of my competitors, I'm ha I'm fine with that. 01:31:33.455 --> 01:31:36.305 I would rather you have the best gear and the best equipment 01:31:36.305 --> 01:31:37.525 you, you could possibly have. 01:31:38.545 --> 01:31:41.215 Um, and I really, really, so I really hope it's mine. 01:31:41.685 --> 01:31:43.315 You will try to make that work or like that. 01:31:43.335 --> 01:31:46.295 But if I really truly feel that it's not, or it's just not going to work or 01:31:46.295 --> 01:31:51.015 just ends up not working out, but you feel you got the best equipment possible. 01:31:52.430 --> 01:31:56.340 And last thing I want is an operator fielding a piece of equipment that 01:31:56.350 --> 01:31:59.170 ends up failing and, you know, puts them in jeopardy or like that. 01:31:59.180 --> 01:32:02.370 And I think we all, all within the industry, we feel the same 01:32:02.370 --> 01:32:03.250 way or like that more or less. 01:32:03.270 --> 01:32:04.110 We, we want. 01:32:04.620 --> 01:32:06.320 That's a group of people who are playing the long game. 01:32:06.890 --> 01:32:08.370 The short game is how do I make my buck? 01:32:08.370 --> 01:32:09.040 Can I make it now? 01:32:09.040 --> 01:32:09.460 And I'm gone. 01:32:09.820 --> 01:32:13.320 The long game is based on that level of integrity in those relationships. 01:32:13.350 --> 01:32:16.590 Well, and anyone who can tell you that's in government procurement, it's, it's a 01:32:16.590 --> 01:32:21.230 long game, whether you like it or not, it took 40 years for them to design, to get 01:32:21.230 --> 01:32:23.160 a new pistol that replaced the Brownings. 01:32:23.170 --> 01:32:23.410 Right. 01:32:23.410 --> 01:32:25.740 So it, you're in this for the long haul. 01:32:27.340 --> 01:32:29.410 We've had an exceptionally busy time. 01:32:29.410 --> 01:32:32.660 Uh, and we've been luckily very successful over the last couple of years 01:32:32.660 --> 01:32:36.840 in tenders, but, um, it's not uncommon that you, you could have, you could go 01:32:36.840 --> 01:32:38.540 your entire 30 year career and only. 01:32:38.955 --> 01:32:42.535 Really have maybe three or four programs at the federal level come out. 01:32:43.205 --> 01:32:45.545 If somebody wanted to get into this line of work, is that a, 01:32:45.585 --> 01:32:47.165 uh, a difficult thing for them? 01:32:48.085 --> 01:32:50.375 Um, cause there's not too many openings. 01:32:50.375 --> 01:32:50.695 I would think. 01:32:50.695 --> 01:32:51.625 There's not, no. 01:32:51.695 --> 01:32:53.225 Um, I think. 01:32:54.215 --> 01:32:56.775 Unfortunately they're, they're, you know, there's, there's not 01:32:56.775 --> 01:32:57.585 that many openings out there. 01:32:57.585 --> 01:33:01.635 There's, you know, there is opportunities that always arise, but generally, yeah, 01:33:01.635 --> 01:33:04.695 when you, when you get into the, you know, I've been lucky enough, the way I 01:33:04.695 --> 01:33:08.045 did get into it or like that and the way and, and get, you know, be involved in 01:33:08.045 --> 01:33:12.225 this trade, you don't typically leave it unless you really want to, unless you just 01:33:12.225 --> 01:33:16.585 can't, you know, you are, it's a, it's a good position to be in or like that. 01:33:16.595 --> 01:33:16.815 Sure. 01:33:17.795 --> 01:33:23.930 But, you know, there's always, you know, To anyone, to, you know, ex military 01:33:23.930 --> 01:33:26.570 or currently serving military that's thinking of getting out there and like 01:33:26.570 --> 01:33:28.795 that, uh, Police and stuff like that. 01:33:29.155 --> 01:33:30.865 I don't know why you would leave your police job, to be honest with you, cause 01:33:30.865 --> 01:33:34.185 it's a pretty sweet job, but maybe, you know, but maybe they want to do fire. 01:33:34.195 --> 01:33:35.645 Maybe they want to do, Oh, wow. 01:33:36.365 --> 01:33:40.985 Well, you know, I, I, I, I will admit, and they, you know, like adversity, 01:33:41.275 --> 01:33:44.325 I was trained as a firefighter and a fire protection engineer. 01:33:44.325 --> 01:33:47.315 So, you know, I tell that to some of my cop and my police clients and they're 01:33:47.315 --> 01:33:52.165 like, uh, yeah, I don't think you can, uh, I'm like, well, I'm not working on it now. 01:33:53.755 --> 01:33:58.535 But, uh, but yeah, anyone is, uh, you know, I, I get all asked all the time 01:33:58.535 --> 01:34:00.635 by, you know, by a lot of military guys. 01:34:00.635 --> 01:34:02.055 Oh, well, are you, are you hiring? 01:34:02.645 --> 01:34:03.365 No, we're not. 01:34:03.365 --> 01:34:07.555 It doesn't mean we're never not never gonna, but you need 01:34:07.555 --> 01:34:08.575 a particular set of skills. 01:34:08.575 --> 01:34:11.995 You need to be able to, you know, have just me, haven't just been a 01:34:11.995 --> 01:34:14.565 door kicker or just being an infantry or just being more in uniform. 01:34:14.565 --> 01:34:15.605 Unfortunately, isn't enough. 01:34:15.675 --> 01:34:16.005 Sure. 01:34:16.235 --> 01:34:19.535 You also have to have some sort of skills in sales. 01:34:19.635 --> 01:34:19.925 Yeah. 01:34:19.975 --> 01:34:20.995 You have to have a personality. 01:34:21.065 --> 01:34:21.195 Yeah. 01:34:21.645 --> 01:34:25.315 Um, You have to have the ability to actually sell 01:34:25.345 --> 01:34:26.475 yourself or anything like that. 01:34:26.795 --> 01:34:28.775 You can, if you can sell yourself, you can sell anything else. 01:34:29.605 --> 01:34:30.935 That's what most salespeople are. 01:34:31.285 --> 01:34:33.125 Their first and foremost job is to sell themselves. 01:34:33.155 --> 01:34:34.715 I'm selling myself to these agencies. 01:34:34.715 --> 01:34:36.985 I might ask, I want them to come back to me and talk to me. 01:34:38.015 --> 01:34:40.895 It's not, you know, the product is an afterthought or something like that. 01:34:40.905 --> 01:34:44.855 I want them to know that I'm there to help them out, that if they call me up 01:34:44.855 --> 01:34:46.445 at, you know, that they can trust you. 01:34:46.695 --> 01:34:48.785 If they call me up at three o'clock in the morning and say, Hey, this, you know, we 01:34:48.785 --> 01:34:49.985 need something right now with Light Deck. 01:34:49.995 --> 01:34:50.655 Can you help us out? 01:34:50.935 --> 01:34:55.675 Yeah, but I will do, I will do it for you or something like that, because that's 01:34:55.675 --> 01:34:59.355 what, you know, uh, I would expect that myself or like that, because I've been 01:34:59.355 --> 01:35:00.425 on the, I've been on the front line. 01:35:00.425 --> 01:35:02.885 I've been on, I've in the field where gear fails, gear will 01:35:02.885 --> 01:35:04.025 fail no matter how good it is. 01:35:05.165 --> 01:35:11.555 And you want to have a solution right then and there, you can't afford to not, right. 01:35:11.555 --> 01:35:15.300 So, uh, But yeah, so the whole industry is a bit of a 01:35:15.300 --> 01:35:16.170 brotherhood or something like that. 01:35:16.200 --> 01:35:18.840 We all kind of, you know, we, we, we're all in competition with each other. 01:35:18.840 --> 01:35:25.600 As I said, we all do get along and, uh, that relationship amongst that 01:35:25.600 --> 01:35:29.120 is just, it's just as important to me as, is building relations with 01:35:29.130 --> 01:35:32.600 governments, with agencies, with, uh, anything along those lines. 01:35:32.690 --> 01:35:37.550 Cause without that, you know, sometimes you gotta work together on a contract. 01:35:37.990 --> 01:35:38.950 You don't have a choice in the matter. 01:35:39.895 --> 01:35:44.975 When we did the C 19 ranger rifle program, TICA, we were, I mean, it's an interesting 01:35:44.975 --> 01:35:46.175 project manager position for me. 01:35:46.175 --> 01:35:48.095 It was when the, when I first got into Stougard, that was, 01:35:48.105 --> 01:35:49.075 I was handed that project. 01:35:49.075 --> 01:35:50.325 You're like, this is yours to manage now. 01:35:50.805 --> 01:35:54.535 So I'm managing it between the government of Canada, ourselves, our manufacturer 01:35:54.535 --> 01:35:58.195 TICA and Colt Canada, cause Colt Canada, the contracts with Canada, but it has to 01:35:58.195 --> 01:35:59.695 go through the MSP partner, Colt Canada. 01:36:00.635 --> 01:36:01.805 So we're supplying them all the parts. 01:36:01.805 --> 01:36:02.625 They're assembling it. 01:36:02.635 --> 01:36:03.605 They're putting the rifle together. 01:36:03.805 --> 01:36:04.925 Then we're getting the D and D. 01:36:06.945 --> 01:36:08.475 I'm managing all the different things together. 01:36:08.535 --> 01:36:11.005 I'm making sure everyone plays nice in the sandbox. 01:36:12.585 --> 01:36:15.345 And it's not, it doesn't always work out well. 01:36:15.355 --> 01:36:18.255 Just like, you know, just like, you know, brothers are going to, 01:36:18.335 --> 01:36:19.535 are going to fight or something. 01:36:19.535 --> 01:36:19.795 Right. 01:36:19.795 --> 01:36:22.015 But, uh, you kind of got to, that's what you got to do. 01:36:22.015 --> 01:36:26.095 And the unique position of being Brett, of working with Brett is 01:36:26.095 --> 01:36:28.545 that we are, um, still family owned. 01:36:29.685 --> 01:36:31.255 We have been for 15 generations. 01:36:31.595 --> 01:36:34.555 So it's still a Brett, a brother that's running the company. 01:36:34.605 --> 01:36:35.335 That's crazy. 01:36:35.455 --> 01:36:35.975 That's nuts. 01:36:36.940 --> 01:36:41.370 But, uh, and they buy the, they buy companies to bring them into the fold. 01:36:42.070 --> 01:36:44.390 So like take a sack. 01:36:44.390 --> 01:36:47.070 Oh, you know, Steiner said like they, they buy them out. 01:36:47.070 --> 01:36:47.430 Right. 01:36:48.340 --> 01:36:49.960 It's not like we're working under a. 01:36:50.095 --> 01:36:54.915 Contracts where it could, the contract could end up, you know, expiring. 01:36:55.845 --> 01:36:59.085 So we can offer that kind of, you know, experience within the, uh, the 01:36:59.085 --> 01:37:02.095 fantasy industry is that, you know, and it came up with a sniper rifle 01:37:02.095 --> 01:37:04.655 is that, you know, we offered the, we won the contract for the rifle. 01:37:04.675 --> 01:37:06.855 Then we go on to the contract for the scope, cause it's 01:37:06.855 --> 01:37:07.675 all within the same company. 01:37:07.845 --> 01:37:08.985 Then we won the contract for the ammo. 01:37:09.075 --> 01:37:09.435 Right. 01:37:09.785 --> 01:37:12.185 Cause we have an manufacturer as well. 01:37:12.185 --> 01:37:15.495 So we can provide that full package, different three tenders and we 01:37:15.495 --> 01:37:18.055 all had to bid on separately, but. 01:37:21.605 --> 01:37:24.565 It gives us, I'd say there's definitely an advantage there and it's nice. 01:37:24.565 --> 01:37:26.715 The fact we, we don't have shareholders, we have to answer it too. 01:37:26.825 --> 01:37:27.655 We're answering to one guy. 01:37:28.335 --> 01:37:29.075 That's crazy. 01:37:29.745 --> 01:37:35.795 Um, it's a unique, I think in this world to have that type of thing happen. 01:37:36.675 --> 01:37:39.325 Um, and we, we can't just be like, you know, the shareholders will 01:37:39.325 --> 01:37:41.545 be like, we don't want to get in the, we want, we don't want to be 01:37:41.545 --> 01:37:42.645 in the firearms business anymore. 01:37:42.655 --> 01:37:43.385 We're getting out. 01:37:43.915 --> 01:37:48.500 This is the next thing, you know, your company's, you know, It's been sucked out 01:37:48.500 --> 01:37:50.460 of, you know, of all the assets you had. 01:37:51.290 --> 01:37:53.640 I don't think bread is getting out of the fireman's restraints anytime soon. 01:37:53.640 --> 01:37:54.930 They've been in it for 500 years. 01:37:55.730 --> 01:37:55.920 Yeah. 01:37:55.920 --> 01:37:56.790 I don't see it either. 01:37:57.060 --> 01:38:00.680 So, uh, um, and there's a lot of investment there in that regard. 01:38:00.680 --> 01:38:04.930 So, uh, I, you know, I, we're, we're, we're going to go, we're, 01:38:05.160 --> 01:38:06.500 we're still going strong in it. 01:38:06.520 --> 01:38:12.405 And, uh, yeah, As I said, um, it's, it really was a unique 01:38:12.435 --> 01:38:15.685 experience for me to come in at the level I did into this industry. 01:38:16.055 --> 01:38:18.905 I had, you know, some work before I was a range safety officers and stuff 01:38:18.905 --> 01:38:21.525 like that, certain indoor ranges, but then to jump right into the role 01:38:21.525 --> 01:38:25.335 I had because of the skill sets I had was something really unique. 01:38:25.335 --> 01:38:26.475 Everything happens for a reason. 01:38:26.475 --> 01:38:27.375 I truly believe that. 01:38:27.415 --> 01:38:27.695 Yeah. 01:38:28.165 --> 01:38:30.005 And it, it really worked out well. 01:38:30.085 --> 01:38:33.855 Um, I just happened to also live in the exact same town that the office is in. 01:38:34.265 --> 01:38:35.535 So that worked out well as local. 01:38:36.585 --> 01:38:42.815 And, uh, You know, and I would, you know, I wouldn't change anything for it. 01:38:42.815 --> 01:38:47.025 I think I, I, it's really interesting having been an operator, 01:38:47.025 --> 01:38:48.545 been, you know, an infantier. 01:38:49.165 --> 01:38:51.405 Um, when I say operate, I want to make it clear. 01:38:51.405 --> 01:38:52.395 It was never special forces. 01:38:52.395 --> 01:38:54.389 I just say operator because it's the, the. 01:38:54.710 --> 01:38:56.000 I guess the funky term now, or something like that. 01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:58.000 That was, that was the infantry soldier. 01:38:58.600 --> 01:38:59.150 Uh, yeah. 01:38:59.160 --> 01:39:01.610 I'm not trying to sound cooler than, you know, it is or anything like that. 01:39:01.720 --> 01:39:04.350 I'm not trying to, you know, those people out there are going to fat check it. 01:39:04.350 --> 01:39:06.340 Oh, he was never a Seesawer. 01:39:06.410 --> 01:39:07.010 Yeah, I never was. 01:39:07.010 --> 01:39:08.220 I'm not trying to say that I was. 01:39:08.810 --> 01:39:12.520 Um, but what's cool is I get to work with them. 01:39:13.180 --> 01:39:13.530 Yeah. 01:39:13.700 --> 01:39:16.010 So something I could never do within the army. 01:39:16.500 --> 01:39:16.690 Yeah. 01:39:16.690 --> 01:39:17.400 You're still able to. 01:39:17.410 --> 01:39:21.260 Now I get to work with them and train with them and equip them and, 01:39:21.530 --> 01:39:23.440 but also be able to equip, you know. 01:39:24.265 --> 01:39:28.665 Regular soldiers, regular, you know, army guys see the, see that it's been 01:39:28.665 --> 01:39:32.775 a huge pride of me, uh, that I was involved in that sniper C 21, uh, 01:39:32.835 --> 01:39:38.425 program that I don't know if I had a lasting effect when I was in uniform 01:39:38.485 --> 01:39:42.005 on anybody other than some soldiers I trained and maybe on my, on my unit 01:39:42.005 --> 01:39:44.335 itself, I am in my unit's history books. 01:39:44.365 --> 01:39:47.315 Like Claire, I carried my Royal, you know, my, my Royal Regiment of Canada. 01:39:47.315 --> 01:39:49.085 I carried their flag up into the Nepal. 01:39:49.820 --> 01:39:52.090 It's been up above the clouds, 22, 000 feet. 01:39:52.100 --> 01:39:52.590 That's cool. 01:39:52.590 --> 01:39:53.390 I'm in their history book. 01:39:53.420 --> 01:39:55.510 But other than that, it was, you know, I'm not sure what 01:39:55.510 --> 01:39:56.680 impact I had within the army. 01:39:56.710 --> 01:39:57.020 Sure. 01:39:57.370 --> 01:40:02.470 But I know now that I'm no longer in the uniform, but I'm doing what I'm doing 01:40:02.470 --> 01:40:04.170 now, that I had an impact in the army. 01:40:04.650 --> 01:40:07.820 They got a new sniper rifle because of the work we did and what I did. 01:40:08.980 --> 01:40:11.749 And that, you know. 01:40:12.400 --> 01:40:14.590 Whether they have it for five years, 10 years, 30 years, the 01:40:14.590 --> 01:40:18.080 fact is they got a new weapon platform and it's, my name is on it. 01:40:18.260 --> 01:40:21.380 And that's no simple feat, like you mentioned with the, uh, Browning 01:40:21.380 --> 01:40:22.850 Hi Power, it's no simple feat. 01:40:22.880 --> 01:40:25.820 No, that program started long before I was in the company. 01:40:25.880 --> 01:40:26.090 Yeah. 01:40:26.560 --> 01:40:26.980 Um. 01:40:26.990 --> 01:40:28.160 But you got your fingerprints on it. 01:40:28.650 --> 01:40:28.910 Yeah. 01:40:28.960 --> 01:40:32.030 And we, I was the one that put the bid in that, that took it 01:40:32.030 --> 01:40:34.589 from, you know, RFI to RFP. 01:40:34.590 --> 01:40:37.630 It, you know, I was involved with for four years until we finally delivered the very 01:40:37.630 --> 01:40:43.055 first rifle to Canada and, uh, There's something I can always, no matter what 01:40:43.055 --> 01:40:47.935 I do in my life, there's something I can say is I did something greater than, you 01:40:47.935 --> 01:40:51.885 know, the, the small pieces I did in the army or like that, not dismissing me, not 01:40:51.885 --> 01:40:53.395 diminishing my service, but it's just. 01:40:53.535 --> 01:40:56.605 Well, you're doing something right now as well, and whether you see it 01:40:56.605 --> 01:40:59.295 or not, and I'm pretty sure you see it, but you're doing something right 01:40:59.295 --> 01:41:03.405 now and just what you're sharing by sharing your story in the path that 01:41:03.405 --> 01:41:07.155 you're taking with your physical and mental health that other people look at. 01:41:07.595 --> 01:41:09.355 And it'll make an impact. 01:41:09.385 --> 01:41:12.935 I'm always surprised at people who come up to me and say, thank you so much. 01:41:12.945 --> 01:41:17.845 Just the other day, I was at a remembrance day ceremony and one guy looks over 01:41:17.845 --> 01:41:20.945 and sees my hat I'm wearing and he's like, well, I've done level one, level 01:41:20.945 --> 01:41:22.225 two courses with you guys so far. 01:41:22.305 --> 01:41:23.495 Oh, that's, thank you. 01:41:23.815 --> 01:41:28.095 Another guy comes up as I'm leaving and says, you don't know me, this is my name. 01:41:28.115 --> 01:41:30.535 I really want to thank you so much for the guests that you had on. 01:41:30.555 --> 01:41:33.205 It really made a big difference to me. 01:41:33.255 --> 01:41:33.375 Yeah. 01:41:33.385 --> 01:41:34.885 And, um. 01:41:35.520 --> 01:41:38.690 I know for a fact that the story that you've shared is going to have the 01:41:38.690 --> 01:41:40.390 same, whether we hear back on it or not. 01:41:40.830 --> 01:41:41.670 I appreciate that. 01:41:41.740 --> 01:41:47.880 And I, I also, you know, want to make it just going back to the, the mental health 01:41:47.970 --> 01:41:51.910 side of it, like that one, make it clear that like I'm doing much better than I 01:41:51.910 --> 01:41:58.430 did back in 2012, 20, 2000, you know, from the injury now it, it, it's not. 01:41:59.410 --> 01:42:02.280 It never goes away though it's, it's, it's, it's weird. 01:42:02.280 --> 01:42:02.940 It's ugly head. 01:42:03.040 --> 01:42:03.350 Sure. 01:42:03.370 --> 01:42:03.940 You manage it. 01:42:04.000 --> 01:42:04.820 Yeah, you manage it. 01:42:04.820 --> 01:42:07.480 I, I was told for a while there, I was like, Oh, like, it's almost 01:42:07.480 --> 01:42:09.420 like a cancer treatment, you're, you're in remission right now. 01:42:09.460 --> 01:42:10.180 You're doing good. 01:42:10.190 --> 01:42:12.210 You're, I was able to go into public to the mall. 01:42:12.210 --> 01:42:18.510 I wasn't having the triggers I was having, um, last, you know, a little while. 01:42:18.530 --> 01:42:22.430 I thought that kind of, you know, in the last year, since my son turned one and 01:42:22.450 --> 01:42:26.350 he's about to turn two now, I thought that, Life changes or anything like that. 01:42:26.350 --> 01:42:28.780 There's stresses now or anything like that, that weren't there. 01:42:28.830 --> 01:42:31.190 And something was kind of triggering a little bit of it. 01:42:31.190 --> 01:42:35.200 And I found myself getting going, going, going bound the path again of mental, 01:42:35.250 --> 01:42:36.750 like I'm not doing so good or like that. 01:42:36.750 --> 01:42:36.950 Right. 01:42:36.950 --> 01:42:40.300 And so it's a constant management of it. 01:42:40.530 --> 01:42:41.440 It's going to be a balance. 01:42:42.090 --> 01:42:43.060 It's a constant fight. 01:42:43.200 --> 01:42:47.900 And so, but I had the tools now to recognize what's going on. 01:42:48.100 --> 01:42:49.370 I'm like, I'm not doing well. 01:42:50.270 --> 01:42:52.750 I know now I have a partner in life that I can talk to. 01:42:53.815 --> 01:42:56.305 She, you know, she's, she's awesome. 01:42:56.305 --> 01:42:56.965 She's with me. 01:42:56.975 --> 01:42:59.345 She's been with me through a lot of the recovery process and all like that. 01:42:59.345 --> 01:43:04.065 So I'm, I now know that it'd be like, Hey, I'm not doing so good and I need 01:43:04.065 --> 01:43:06.505 to tell you to talk about it or I need to be left alone for a little while. 01:43:07.155 --> 01:43:10.445 Being able to recognize that is massive and knowing that, 01:43:10.565 --> 01:43:11.895 okay, I've come this far. 01:43:12.775 --> 01:43:18.055 I recognize that it's never too late to stop, regroup and pick a new direction. 01:43:18.065 --> 01:43:18.495 That's right. 01:43:18.535 --> 01:43:21.395 Cause so many people, well, and for a penny and for a pound, I'm 01:43:21.395 --> 01:43:22.435 already going down this road. 01:43:22.435 --> 01:43:22.745 I'm here. 01:43:22.775 --> 01:43:24.705 I'm going to hammer on through, you know, like push through 01:43:24.705 --> 01:43:26.025 the objective or like that. 01:43:26.285 --> 01:43:29.015 And sometimes you gotta be like, well, well, hold on, you're, you 01:43:29.015 --> 01:43:30.785 can't always do that across the board. 01:43:30.815 --> 01:43:34.725 And if you do the consequences of doing that may be more than you're. 01:43:37.930 --> 01:43:41.430 Um, and I've seen it, you know, why do you think divorce rates are so high 01:43:42.150 --> 01:43:45.880 amongst, uh, service members and why you think suicide rates are so high 01:43:45.890 --> 01:43:51.760 amongst men is that you can't, sometimes pushing the objective is maybe just not, 01:43:51.760 --> 01:43:52.940 that'd be the best decision for you. 01:43:54.080 --> 01:43:57.000 Taking the second to be like, hold on, what is going on here in my bed? 01:43:57.000 --> 01:43:58.120 And do I need some help? 01:43:58.160 --> 01:43:59.210 Get that holistic look. 01:43:59.270 --> 01:43:59.550 Yeah. 01:43:59.750 --> 01:44:03.340 Well, I'm looking at the time and I'm looking out the, uh, the door here. 01:44:03.340 --> 01:44:05.810 I think there's a couple of faces that are waiting on us. 01:44:05.810 --> 01:44:07.760 Is there anything else we should say before we wrap up? 01:44:08.370 --> 01:44:12.760 Uh, again, just plug in, uh, the BDT range day tomorrow, uh, at Range Langley. 01:44:12.800 --> 01:44:13.610 Uh, we hope. 01:44:13.665 --> 01:44:19.805 You know, any serving retired military law enforcement, first responder, uh, is 01:44:19.815 --> 01:44:22.745 a lot, you know, we want you to come out, it's a free event or things like that. 01:44:22.745 --> 01:44:26.005 You come out, you shoot a bunch of our guns, it's free ammo, there'll be free 01:44:26.005 --> 01:44:28.865 food there, and we're just, we want you to come out and have a good day. 01:44:29.590 --> 01:44:33.680 Um, thank you for range Langley to, uh, putting on the green to put on 01:44:33.680 --> 01:44:36.680 the event for us, all their staff and Andrew, uh, Taff there like that. 01:44:36.680 --> 01:44:37.790 That's one to support us. 01:44:37.810 --> 01:44:41.040 Um, and honestly, I just want to say thank you to yourself and having 01:44:41.050 --> 01:44:44.310 me on this is, uh, this is my first experience really kind of on a podcast. 01:44:44.350 --> 01:44:45.570 It's been honestly a great one. 01:44:45.600 --> 01:44:46.380 Oh, you're a natural. 01:44:46.510 --> 01:44:48.530 Uh, I, I, I appreciate that. 01:44:48.560 --> 01:44:49.440 You can have your own show. 01:44:49.440 --> 01:44:50.020 I can see it already. 01:44:50.270 --> 01:44:53.670 I don't know about that, but, uh, Yeah. 01:44:53.730 --> 01:44:56.490 Can I get past daycare first and then maybe you can afford some of 01:44:56.490 --> 01:44:59.785 this equipment, but, uh, But no, it's, it's been a, it's been a 01:44:59.805 --> 01:45:01.845 really, really good, uh, experience. 01:45:01.935 --> 01:45:04.385 Um, you're, you're a great interviewer, like that. 01:45:04.395 --> 01:45:06.965 You kind of just let us kind of talk or like that. 01:45:07.115 --> 01:45:10.085 And it's, uh, there's therapy in that in itself. 01:45:10.385 --> 01:45:26.519 I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the podcast.