WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore podcast.

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Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

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necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years.

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And we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

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If you enjoy the positive
and educational content.

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We provide, please let others
know by sharing, commenting, and

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following so that you can join in on
everything that Silvercore stands for.

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If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

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Silvercore club and community,
visit our website at silvercore.

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ca.

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I'm joined today by a man who has hunted
on nearly every continent in the world.

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He is with Korth Group, deals closely with
Leupold and Hornady, and he is a prolific,

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avid hunter and a wealth of knowledge.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Matt Siemens.

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Thanks for having me here.

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So we've been trying to line this
one up for a little while now.

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Um, it's been a good to
finally make this one happen.

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Last time we were chatting.

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Man, you were blowing my mind with
some of your stories about hunting

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all over the world, African hunts,
your knowledge on ballistics.

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And I thought there's gotta be a way we
can distill some of this information,

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some of your background, some of the
adventures that you've had into something

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where others can learn from your
successes and your failures and, and.

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Where you're at.

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So, uh, this is, this is
going to be a fun one.

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Yeah,

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Matt Siemens: I'm looking forward to it.

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I've been thinking about this for a while.

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I've always been taught.

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It's always cheaper to learn someone
else's mistakes and make them yourself.

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Right.

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So if you can get some
information from somebody who's

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firsthand, it's always a good

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Travis Bader: start.

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I wish I could be like that, but for
whatever reason, I've always been

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the kind of guy who will look at
somebody else's mistake and I got

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to make it myself and learn from it.

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Someone will say, Hey, don't touch
that stove, it's hot as a child.

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Right.

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And I'd be.

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Hot?

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Like how hot?

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Like, what do you mean by hot?

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Like, can I touch it really
quick and get my hand off?

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Matt Siemens: Yeah, I think all, I think
that's in the man manual though, isn't

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Travis Bader: it?

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Maybe that is.

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It's just obstinate, stubborn ADHD.

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So you've, uh, you've got a hunt in
Africa lined up in a little bit, but

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I guess what I'd be interested in is.

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Your very first African hunt, lessons
you learn from it, things that went

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well, things that maybe you would
advise other people to do differently.

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Uh,

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Matt Siemens: my first
hunt wasn't really planned.

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Uh, you always dreamt
about going to Africa.

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I never thought I'd ever get
there myself, to be honest.

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It was always something somebody else did.

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We grew up, um, no extra money.

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A lot of month led.

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And, uh, I was living, we were
living in Southern Michigan at the

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time I was working with Cabela.

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So I was in the gun library system
and my boss called me up and said,

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Hey, do you want to, do you think
it's safe to go hunt in Zimbabwe?

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This is when Mugabe was out of season,
the farms and all the advisories.

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I said, Hey, Phil, we live in Detroit.

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It can't be any worse.

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So three weeks later, we were in
Africa and he had a deal, right?

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Arranged.

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I paid his airfare.

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He paid my hunt.

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And we went over there and,
uh, my only regret is not

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Travis Bader: going sooner.

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How

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Matt Siemens: old were you?

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Uh, I would have been early thirties.

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Travis Bader: Okay.

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Yeah.

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And you know, for me, I look at this and
I say, man, you got to have pretty deep

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pockets if you want to go hunt outside
of, even just outside of British Columbia.

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But I'm starting to learn that
might not necessarily be the case.

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No,

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Matt Siemens: there's, it's much more
affordable than people think it is.

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The airfare is what's the burden nowadays.

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That's all changed since our pandemic.

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But, um, animal for animal,
Africa is pretty cheap.

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And then people will look at the high end
countries that have are thousand dollars a

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day to hunt and think it's all like that.

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But no, you can go over there.

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I had a guy from Aldergrove.

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I sent him over.

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He did a 15 animal hunt and
it was under 5, 000 Canadian.

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For a 15 animal,

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Travis Bader: 10 day hunt.

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But that wouldn't include airfare.

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That didn't include

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Matt Siemens: airfare, but at that
time you could fly for 11, 500 bucks.

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Wow.

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Travis Bader: So.

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I mean, 15 different animals, 5, 000.

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Yeah.

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In how long?

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10 days.

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10 days.

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So what's it like when you get over there?

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I've heard, so a friend of mine, he was
a pH and he's talks about, it's kind

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of like being in the lap of luxury.

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He says he came over.

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And did a hunt with a guide
in BC and he shows up and he's

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like, okay, we're ready to hunt.

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And they're like, uh,
where's your sleeping bags?

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Where's your kit?

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Where's your gear?

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And he's like, what do you mean?

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Like, don't you guys supply all of this?

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No.

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Matt Siemens: Yeah.

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It's a different world.

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Like a lot of people, when I start
talking about it and they go, I, my

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friend went and they had servants and
they had maids and they had a swimming

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pool and they had this, they had that.

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And I said, that's standard.

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That that's basic rudimentary there.

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Everybody has that.

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Wow.

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It's, it's a different way of life.

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It's like spa for

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Travis Bader: men.

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Yes.

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So, so walk me through it.

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You arrive, what's it look like?

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I was shocked

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Matt Siemens: at how big
and modern Johannesburg was.

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I knew it was going to be big,
but didn't quite comprehend

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as big as it was flying in.

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Um, the neat thing about there is when
you get out of the city, you you're

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out of the city, there is nothing.

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Really?

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And, uh, we flew in, uh.

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I'm from Johannesburg, and the
first ship we flew was the Belawayo,

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Zimbabwe, and it was all the
Mugabe era, and there was nothing.

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There's all these big We went to
the one version of Costco they

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have there, I think it was called
farmers, a big discount chain.

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They had Coke and corn chips
in the whole store, two racks.

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That was it.

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That was it.

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That was it.

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Uh, first time I was there, there was
lineups for about two, three blocks

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for, for fuel, uh, fuel stations.

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The next time it was probably a mile long.

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And my third trip there,
there was simply no fuel.

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Like you just couldn't get it.

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They were out.

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Travis Bader: You just don't
consider that from over

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Matt Siemens: here.

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No.

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Yeah.

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Like the Africans always have that term.

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You have to make a plan.

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And if you can't plan ahead
there, you aren't going to go very

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Travis Bader: far.

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So what do you do?

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There's no fuel.

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The pH will

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Matt Siemens: have all that sorted.

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He has all that.

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But if you like, you couldn't do
it, do it yourself hunt there.

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Got it.

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Just because logistics
and legality anyways.

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But, um, yeah, you have
to plan for everything.

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I remember he came across in Botswana
with a load of stuff for the trip and

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they tax the toilet paper as luxury items.

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Travis Bader: Toilet
paper is a luxury item.

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So it's, it's third world.

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Yeah, I guess.

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Yeah.

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So.

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Are you using firearms down there?

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Are you bringing your own
over or how does that work?

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I've done

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Matt Siemens: it both ways.

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Yeah.

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Um, I always like using my own,
but the more you travel with

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them, the more hassles you have.

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The trip I'm going on
in March, I'm renting.

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Okay.

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Just, um, it's just so much easier.

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Travis Bader: What are safety
concerns like when you go over there?

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Is it on the top of your mind?

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Like I had one.

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Matt Siemens: No, no, I I've hunted places
where it wasn't on the top of my mind.

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I couldn't sleep for the
first couple of days.

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But, um, we're actually flying in
Johannesburg this time, then we're going

00:07:19.145 --> 00:07:23.224
to drive four and a half, five hours
across the country, my boss and myself.

00:07:23.225 --> 00:07:24.205
So we'll see how that goes.

00:07:25.015 --> 00:07:28.784
Um, talk to several people, four
people say it's safe and they'll,

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Fifth person says, absolutely not.

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Do not even entertain the thought.

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And it's all major highways
and set the last 40 kilometers.

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So I, I feel confident

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Travis Bader: in it.

00:07:37.100 --> 00:07:37.890
Otherwise I wouldn't do it.

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He had a, uh, a friend.

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He was over there with his brother
and his brother is a U S army.

00:07:43.819 --> 00:07:45.549
I think it was an A10 pilot.

00:07:45.570 --> 00:07:48.759
And, um, anyways, they're,
they're in Africa.

00:07:48.899 --> 00:07:49.619
I don't know.

00:07:49.620 --> 00:07:54.540
Uh, I think they're in South Africa
and he was wearing a Casio watch.

00:07:54.960 --> 00:07:56.320
He's like, you better take that watch off.

00:07:56.330 --> 00:07:57.050
He's like, what do you mean?

00:07:57.150 --> 00:07:58.310
He says your life.

00:07:58.914 --> 00:08:02.675
Is worth less than what that Casio
watch that you're wearing is, right?

00:08:03.344 --> 00:08:03.815
Is that.

00:08:04.794 --> 00:08:07.645
Matt Siemens: There, there's probably
sections of that area like that.

00:08:08.284 --> 00:08:11.525
And, uh, I plan the route
pretty close, like stay in the

00:08:11.525 --> 00:08:12.854
major highways best we can.

00:08:13.724 --> 00:08:17.085
We have a doctor friend of ours,
his family from South Africa.

00:08:17.409 --> 00:08:20.140
They actually packed up and
moved back, uh, two years

00:08:20.140 --> 00:08:20.450
Travis Bader: ago.

00:08:20.640 --> 00:08:22.109
Packed up, moved back to South Africa.

00:08:22.109 --> 00:08:23.739
Back to South Africa from,

00:08:23.880 --> 00:08:24.580
Matt Siemens: from Chilliwack.

00:08:25.180 --> 00:08:25.880
Travis Bader: Because?

00:08:27.890 --> 00:08:28.640
Well, that's a whole nother

00:08:28.960 --> 00:08:32.400
Matt Siemens: conversation, but he
just, like, we've had some pretty

00:08:32.400 --> 00:08:34.969
candid talks and stuff and well,
their families from there and

00:08:34.969 --> 00:08:36.730
stuff, but they just felt there was.

00:08:37.339 --> 00:08:38.069
Travis Bader: Isn't that telling

00:08:38.069 --> 00:08:38.349
Matt Siemens: though?

00:08:38.429 --> 00:08:39.280
That's very telling.

00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:39.740
Right.

00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:41.039
And if it was up to me.

00:08:41.905 --> 00:08:44.115
When I'm, when we're done this, I
get back in my truck and keep on

00:08:44.115 --> 00:08:46.584
driving the sea island, get on a
plane and not come back myself.

00:08:46.645 --> 00:08:47.105
Really?

00:08:47.105 --> 00:08:47.255
Yeah.

00:08:47.324 --> 00:08:51.885
I'd be there, not South Africa,
wouldn't be my first choice, but

00:08:51.904 --> 00:08:54.125
I would definitely go to Namibia

00:08:54.125 --> 00:08:54.865
Travis Bader: and not come back.

00:08:54.934 --> 00:08:55.885
That'd be your first choice?

00:08:55.915 --> 00:08:56.024
Yeah.

00:08:56.024 --> 00:08:56.364
Namibia?

00:08:56.405 --> 00:08:57.324
Namibia would be my first choice.

00:08:57.335 --> 00:08:57.715
Really?

00:08:57.745 --> 00:08:57.954
Yeah.

00:08:58.494 --> 00:09:00.005
So, uh, property over there is.

00:09:01.160 --> 00:09:01.750
Attainable?

00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:02.589
Yeah.

00:09:02.980 --> 00:09:05.740
Matt Siemens: There's some regulations
of buying agricultural lands and,

00:09:06.359 --> 00:09:07.869
and stuff, but it's attainable.

00:09:07.910 --> 00:09:09.109
And I've looked at farms.

00:09:09.109 --> 00:09:12.310
I've been looking at farms for a
couple of years now, and I found

00:09:12.529 --> 00:09:15.619
like 30, 000 acre farms for less than
what you can buy a lot in Chilliwack

00:09:15.619 --> 00:09:15.839
Travis Bader: for.

00:09:15.869 --> 00:09:16.339
Really?

00:09:16.390 --> 00:09:19.380
Well, do you have to worry
about squatters or not having?

00:09:19.700 --> 00:09:21.370
Property next time you go down there.

00:09:22.550 --> 00:09:24.510
Matt Siemens: No, not,
not in Namibia per se.

00:09:24.590 --> 00:09:24.880
Okay.

00:09:24.880 --> 00:09:28.580
It depends where you buy to, but,
uh, the, the cheap land is cheap

00:09:28.580 --> 00:09:33.639
for a reason and the water it's,
it might sustain natural game, but

00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:35.569
livestock and stuff may struggle on it.

00:09:35.920 --> 00:09:38.429
Like here you talk about how many
cows you can have on an acre.

00:09:39.160 --> 00:09:42.420
There it's 40, 50
hectares per, per animal.

00:09:42.490 --> 00:09:43.270
Like it changes.

00:09:43.280 --> 00:09:45.230
It reverses quite dramatically.

00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:45.440
I'm

00:09:45.820 --> 00:09:46.230
Travis Bader: kidding.

00:09:46.750 --> 00:09:48.379
How did you get into this line of work?

00:09:48.379 --> 00:09:49.210
How did he get in?

00:09:49.230 --> 00:09:53.309
So your, your Cabela's working in
the gun, gun counter, gun library?

00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:54.669
Well, this

00:09:54.669 --> 00:09:55.510
Matt Siemens: goes way back.

00:09:55.539 --> 00:09:58.824
Um, I started working in a local
gun shop in Abbotsford in 86.

00:09:59.405 --> 00:10:00.605
Just when I was in high school.

00:10:00.715 --> 00:10:01.375
Which one was that?

00:10:01.445 --> 00:10:02.515
Perfection Tackle and Guns.

00:10:02.565 --> 00:10:03.035
Okay.

00:10:03.175 --> 00:10:06.455
They're gone since,
well, since I think 89.

00:10:06.855 --> 00:10:10.195
But anyway, so I started that and then
my goal was law enforcement, went to

00:10:10.195 --> 00:10:13.915
university and stuff, and then I wanted
to move to the U S for law enforcement.

00:10:14.785 --> 00:10:18.025
So I, um, we're looking to my,
we got married, my wife's born in

00:10:18.025 --> 00:10:19.599
the U S we lived in Prince George.

00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:21.570
We applied for my immigration.

00:10:21.570 --> 00:10:23.680
We were told it would take
years to come through.

00:10:23.780 --> 00:10:25.000
Three months, it came through here.

00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:25.560
You have to move.

00:10:26.050 --> 00:10:27.780
So I just look for the first job I can.

00:10:27.780 --> 00:10:29.810
I fired off her resume to Cabela's.

00:10:29.820 --> 00:10:34.719
They flew me down for an interview
three days later and, uh, the local law

00:10:34.719 --> 00:10:38.429
enforcement agencies couldn't compete
with what Cabela's paid and benefits.

00:10:39.370 --> 00:10:39.760
Wow.

00:10:39.770 --> 00:10:41.080
That was before they went public.

00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:41.510
Right.

00:10:41.560 --> 00:10:43.390
I actually had to work over
them and they had two stores.

00:10:44.150 --> 00:10:44.510
Really?

00:10:44.510 --> 00:10:44.730
Yeah.

00:10:44.770 --> 00:10:46.960
Dick and Mary and Jim
would come in the store.

00:10:48.079 --> 00:10:49.829
My wife started work there as well.

00:10:49.829 --> 00:10:52.739
And she was working the back door once and
Dick and Mary tried coming in without ID.

00:10:52.740 --> 00:10:53.410
She wouldn't let him in.

00:10:53.569 --> 00:10:55.959
She didn't recognize him
when we just started.

00:10:56.170 --> 00:11:00.129
So it was, it was, uh, they, they
looked after employees very well.

00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:01.840
Nothing like it is today.

00:11:02.410 --> 00:11:03.540
Yeah, it's a little
different now, isn't it?

00:11:03.540 --> 00:11:07.050
Yeah, it's, uh, you have
shareholders that changes everything.

00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:09.090
It's the bottom line is,

00:11:09.460 --> 00:11:10.170
Travis Bader: is what they look at.

00:11:10.390 --> 00:11:12.950
Well, I guess you still deal
with Cabela's now with Korth.

00:11:12.950 --> 00:11:13.899
Yeah.

00:11:13.900 --> 00:11:14.160
Yeah.

00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:19.410
So, uh, and then from Cabela's you
got on to Korth, is that, was there

00:11:19.410 --> 00:11:21.110
a transition like that or what?

00:11:21.189 --> 00:11:21.489
Yeah.

00:11:21.490 --> 00:11:22.450
Matt Siemens: Cabela's, um.

00:11:23.569 --> 00:11:26.219
I was in Idaho at the time with
them at the Pulse Falls store,

00:11:26.730 --> 00:11:28.160
been there almost 15 years.

00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:32.790
They'd gone public, things were
changing drastically and I was

00:11:32.819 --> 00:11:35.440
looking for something else and I
said, if the next real job that

00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:36.709
comes along, I'm going to entertain.

00:11:37.110 --> 00:11:39.930
And I was dealing with a deal
with one of the guys from Leupold.

00:11:40.469 --> 00:11:41.839
I worked in the Beaverton
plant and I said, Hey, you

00:11:41.849 --> 00:11:42.939
know, I'm looking for somebody.

00:11:42.939 --> 00:11:43.430
Let me know.

00:11:44.439 --> 00:11:48.729
Two days later, Korth flew me to Alberta
for an interview and the rest is history.

00:11:48.729 --> 00:11:48.979
Travis Bader: Right.

00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:52.609
And I like, uh, we're going to have
people chiming in, I'm sure they said,

00:11:52.610 --> 00:11:54.290
no, it's not Leupold, it's Leopold.

00:11:54.349 --> 00:11:55.170
No, that's Leupold.

00:11:55.250 --> 00:11:55.620
Okay.

00:11:55.620 --> 00:11:55.880
Yeah.

00:11:55.929 --> 00:11:55.939
A

00:11:55.939 --> 00:11:56.559
Matt Siemens: hundred percent.

00:11:56.560 --> 00:11:56.939
Leupold.

00:11:56.939 --> 00:11:57.730
A hundred percent Leupold.

00:11:57.730 --> 00:11:59.620
If you call the plant, they're
going to answer it Leupold and

00:11:59.620 --> 00:12:00.089
Travis Bader: Stevens.

00:12:00.359 --> 00:12:01.260
Leupold and Stevens.

00:12:01.260 --> 00:12:01.369
Yeah.

00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:03.800
My very first rifle was a Stevens.

00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:04.329
Okay.

00:12:04.359 --> 00:12:06.829
Little takedown, 22 Stevens favorite.

00:12:07.329 --> 00:12:09.550
Uh, I could fit it into my backpack.

00:12:09.550 --> 00:12:12.839
I'd go across the street from my school
in a place that I called the desert

00:12:13.180 --> 00:12:14.579
because they had a bunch of sand there.

00:12:15.220 --> 00:12:17.590
And, uh, it's Joe Brown
park out in Surrey.

00:12:17.630 --> 00:12:19.980
They actually had a bit of a range
there that the police would use.

00:12:19.980 --> 00:12:23.520
And I'd shoot there same as
a Delta watershed and same

00:12:23.520 --> 00:12:25.030
as the Burns bog out here.

00:12:25.030 --> 00:12:30.369
I got a sign over there, uh, they
all had ranges in there and that's,

00:12:30.370 --> 00:12:31.450
that's where I'd shoot growing up.

00:12:31.944 --> 00:12:33.625
Yeah, it's a different
Stevens though, completely.

00:12:33.885 --> 00:12:34.415
Different Stevens.

00:12:34.415 --> 00:12:34.635
Yeah.

00:12:34.895 --> 00:12:35.204
Right.

00:12:35.265 --> 00:12:35.604
Okay.

00:12:35.834 --> 00:12:37.925
It's loophole to Stevens, but nothing
to do with the firearm company.

00:12:37.974 --> 00:12:41.604
Nothing to do with the Chippewa
Falls, Massachusetts, Stevens.

00:12:41.684 --> 00:12:42.135
Got it.

00:12:42.135 --> 00:12:42.635
Okay.

00:12:42.894 --> 00:12:43.415
There we go.

00:12:44.235 --> 00:12:45.565
Um, I probably should know that.

00:12:45.565 --> 00:12:46.034
Shouldn't I?

00:12:46.445 --> 00:12:46.615
You

00:12:46.615 --> 00:12:49.814
Matt Siemens: know, the firearm industry
and stuff, you can never say never, right?

00:12:49.824 --> 00:12:53.065
So you never know it's, but
it's a lot of people make that

00:12:53.065 --> 00:12:53.505
Travis Bader: assumption.

00:12:53.715 --> 00:12:54.205
Okay.

00:12:54.835 --> 00:12:58.395
Well, Hey, I got to talk about
my first firearm anyways, so

00:12:58.395 --> 00:12:59.524
nothing wrong with that one.

00:13:00.130 --> 00:13:04.650
Yeah, I had a, um, custom made
stock on it for my small frame

00:13:04.650 --> 00:13:06.610
and the shorter barrel on it.

00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:11.220
And it came off of a, uh, I think it was
some old Cooey that was kind of cut down.

00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:14.130
And I, I remember even at five years
old, trying to hold that thing up.

00:13:14.140 --> 00:13:18.619
It was the heaviest thing in the world and
arched back and that, um, yeah, started

00:13:18.619 --> 00:13:20.329
shooting at four first gun at five.

00:13:20.330 --> 00:13:20.920
That was that one.

00:13:20.920 --> 00:13:22.680
And there you go.

00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.980
But you're, uh, you're pretty heavy
into the ballistics as well, too.

00:13:26.425 --> 00:13:26.595
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

00:13:26.595 --> 00:13:27.815
I've always found it fascinating.

00:13:27.945 --> 00:13:28.325
Yeah.

00:13:28.455 --> 00:13:32.165
I couldn't do math to save my
life in high school, but all the.

00:13:32.315 --> 00:13:33.035
You and me both.

00:13:33.385 --> 00:13:38.025
And even before all the apps came
out and ballistic calculators came

00:13:38.025 --> 00:13:41.564
out, I could sit down and figure
stuff out with your basic algebra

00:13:41.565 --> 00:13:43.315
and cause I had interest in it.

00:13:44.115 --> 00:13:45.965
And, uh, it's been great.

00:13:46.025 --> 00:13:51.725
Um, I still am very keen on
terminal ballistics and I should

00:13:51.725 --> 00:13:53.015
say keen interested in it.

00:13:53.494 --> 00:13:56.415
Yeah, you always searching for
that perfect bullet and stuff and,

00:13:57.595 --> 00:14:01.035
and, and being the Hornady rep,
a lot of conversations of people

00:14:01.035 --> 00:14:02.814
with quote unquote, bullet failure.

00:14:03.555 --> 00:14:04.724
And that's, that's

00:14:04.724 --> 00:14:04.814
Travis Bader: a.

00:14:05.395 --> 00:14:05.824
Tell me about

00:14:05.824 --> 00:14:06.304
Matt Siemens: that.

00:14:07.535 --> 00:14:11.885
As soon as someone recovers a bullet
that doesn't perform the way they want

00:14:12.165 --> 00:14:13.814
to try claiming the bullet failed.

00:14:14.745 --> 00:14:16.565
Well, I always, where would
you get the bullet from?

00:14:16.585 --> 00:14:18.925
Well, the animal, well, was it dead?

00:14:18.944 --> 00:14:19.485
Well, yeah.

00:14:19.485 --> 00:14:20.204
Well then, okay.

00:14:20.225 --> 00:14:21.064
How has it failed?

00:14:21.464 --> 00:14:21.764
Right.

00:14:21.795 --> 00:14:24.265
But I had an, be careful.

00:14:24.265 --> 00:14:25.055
I don't want to mention names.

00:14:25.915 --> 00:14:26.525
I had an account.

00:14:27.035 --> 00:14:30.775
Contact me once, they had a bunch of
bullet failures with the ELDX in Africa.

00:14:30.905 --> 00:14:31.314
Okay.

00:14:31.355 --> 00:14:33.255
Had to shoot a Gemsbuck nine times.

00:14:33.255 --> 00:14:34.805
It didn't die and all this stuff.

00:14:34.805 --> 00:14:36.964
And so, well, I said, doesn't sound right.

00:14:36.974 --> 00:14:37.794
Send me pictures.

00:14:38.224 --> 00:14:40.714
Well, they were literally, there
wasn't a shot in the vitals.

00:14:40.865 --> 00:14:42.674
It was all got shot, shot in that.

00:14:42.674 --> 00:14:46.494
It was just by North American
standards, they may have been in

00:14:46.494 --> 00:14:50.344
the vitals, but the African tropical
games vitals located differently.

00:14:51.130 --> 00:14:51.520
Really?

00:14:51.540 --> 00:14:51.790
Yeah.

00:14:51.940 --> 00:14:55.060
And, uh, quite a, quite enough, like,
like some animals you tuck behind the

00:14:55.060 --> 00:14:56.560
front, right behind the front leg.

00:14:56.600 --> 00:14:56.900
Yeah.

00:14:56.950 --> 00:14:57.540
That's a gut shot.

00:14:57.560 --> 00:14:57.910
There's nothing

00:14:57.910 --> 00:14:58.170
Travis Bader: there.

00:14:58.540 --> 00:14:58.910
Okay.

00:14:58.940 --> 00:14:59.040
Yeah.

00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:00.970
I'll, I'll use you like right
behind the front leg or if

00:15:00.970 --> 00:15:01.820
they're walking, I'll split the

00:15:01.999 --> 00:15:02.620
Matt Siemens: V, go up.

00:15:02.690 --> 00:15:04.360
A little dramatic, but the giraffe.

00:15:04.530 --> 00:15:04.830
Okay.

00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:06.550
All the vitals are in
front of the front leg.

00:15:07.189 --> 00:15:10.310
If you, if you tuck it in, tuck
it in behind the rear shoulder,

00:15:10.670 --> 00:15:11.990
you're just going through gut.

00:15:12.490 --> 00:15:13.270
Travis Bader: Interesting.

00:15:13.270 --> 00:15:13.430
Yeah.

00:15:13.790 --> 00:15:15.420
So they're gut shooting.

00:15:15.450 --> 00:15:18.579
They're shooting these things in tails and
hooves and saying the bullet's not working

00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:18.689
Matt Siemens: right.

00:15:18.689 --> 00:15:19.450
Blaming the bullet.

00:15:20.140 --> 00:15:22.900
When the ELDX first came out,
I was really keen to try it.

00:15:22.900 --> 00:15:24.329
Not a real good bear hunting spot.

00:15:24.329 --> 00:15:26.980
We could watch this one
bank at 700 yards, 707.

00:15:26.980 --> 00:15:30.160
It ranged across and we
were all set up for this.

00:15:30.160 --> 00:15:33.450
So we loaded a bunch, we couldn't
even get the bullets yet.

00:15:33.460 --> 00:15:34.359
So I had to buy.

00:15:34.540 --> 00:15:37.640
Factory ammo, pull it out and load it
into the cartridges we were shooting.

00:15:38.190 --> 00:15:40.030
And we shot three bears that trip.

00:15:40.280 --> 00:15:42.770
All total, the yardage
didn't total a hundred yards.

00:15:42.830 --> 00:15:45.010
So we were all, we're all
equipped to shoot long range and

00:15:45.160 --> 00:15:47.290
everything was right in front of

00:15:47.290 --> 00:15:47.469
Travis Bader: us.

00:15:47.469 --> 00:15:50.150
So, yeah, I did, um, I like that ELDX.

00:15:50.930 --> 00:15:52.969
I've used it in, uh, uh, 6.

00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:57.880
5 Creep War with great success
and then, uh, 280 Ackley improved.

00:15:58.815 --> 00:16:04.025
You know, I took a, uh, a moose at a much
further distance than I probably should

00:16:04.025 --> 00:16:09.275
have with the, uh, ELDX in hindsight, who
was, uh, poor arranging and few errors,

00:16:09.675 --> 00:16:15.015
everything went as it ought to, went down,
but that was, uh, almost 800 meters away.

00:16:15.154 --> 00:16:18.774
And, um, uh, it performed,
performed as it ought to,

00:16:19.644 --> 00:16:22.005
Matt Siemens: it's a, it's a good bullet.

00:16:22.819 --> 00:16:26.950
It's, you can't have a bullet soft
enough to expand at low velocities

00:16:27.439 --> 00:16:33.059
and then overexpand, not overexpand
when you're real close from

00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:34.890
personal at extreme velocities.

00:16:35.150 --> 00:16:35.819
It's softer.

00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:37.750
So it expands at lower velocity.

00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.539
So if it separates up front, if you
shoot something at 10 yards, well,

00:16:41.539 --> 00:16:42.650
it wasn't really designed for that.

00:16:42.660 --> 00:16:46.709
You're just, you're just, you're pushing
it beyond its limit, its impact velocity.

00:16:47.540 --> 00:16:50.170
Another trend now is fast twist rifles.

00:16:50.754 --> 00:16:51.024
Right.

00:16:51.024 --> 00:16:51.524
I'm seeing that.

00:16:51.545 --> 00:16:56.204
And, uh, you need the fast twist to
spin the bullet to stabilize it, but

00:16:56.204 --> 00:16:59.155
you can also overstate over spin it.

00:16:59.715 --> 00:17:05.625
Now your RPM jumps, you start getting
RPM over 300, 000 RPM, 320, 350, and

00:17:05.625 --> 00:17:06.794
the bullets aren't designed for that.

00:17:08.434 --> 00:17:09.084
Travis Bader: Burst apart.

00:17:09.114 --> 00:17:10.594
Matt Siemens: Centrifugal
force will pull them apart.

00:17:10.665 --> 00:17:10.985
Right.

00:17:10.985 --> 00:17:11.315
Okay.

00:17:11.385 --> 00:17:13.345
And is it the bullet
that a bullet come apart?

00:17:13.365 --> 00:17:13.645
Yeah.

00:17:13.645 --> 00:17:17.915
Well, it just didn't work, but
then people, people say it doesn't

00:17:17.915 --> 00:17:20.375
work, but no, it did because
you just be on this limits.

00:17:21.355 --> 00:17:25.015
Like I always say, you can haul
bags of manure in your Corvette,

00:17:25.015 --> 00:17:26.035
but a pickup truck's better.

00:17:26.055 --> 00:17:27.755
Everything has its purpose, right?

00:17:27.805 --> 00:17:28.275
Right.

00:17:28.345 --> 00:17:31.155
Travis Bader: There really isn't
one be all end all for everything.

00:17:31.830 --> 00:17:32.110
No,

00:17:32.110 --> 00:17:33.360
Matt Siemens: there's a lot
of great products out there.

00:17:33.530 --> 00:17:34.610
There's some great competitors out there.

00:17:35.230 --> 00:17:38.129
And, uh, but everything has its limits.

00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:44.379
Travis Bader: So the faster twist rate,
I've always been of the assumption

00:17:44.379 --> 00:17:49.630
that if you over twist a bullet as
better than under twisting a bullet.

00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:50.030
Yes.

00:17:50.050 --> 00:17:50.680
For accuracy.

00:17:50.729 --> 00:17:51.360
For accuracy.

00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:51.610
Yeah.

00:17:52.620 --> 00:17:53.659
Uh, but you start.

00:17:54.025 --> 00:17:57.495
Twisting a little too fast, pushing
them out a little too hot, too fast.

00:17:57.505 --> 00:18:01.195
You're going to end up having centripetal
force and centrifugal force, uh, failure.

00:18:01.255 --> 00:18:01.485
Well, you

00:18:01.485 --> 00:18:03.415
Matt Siemens: start thinking if
you, if you do the math and there's

00:18:03.415 --> 00:18:06.475
a formula and it slips in my
mind right now, I was remembering

00:18:06.475 --> 00:18:07.655
on the way in, but now I can't.

00:18:08.155 --> 00:18:12.994
Um, like there's some of the stuff, some
of the rifle, there's a rifle company out

00:18:12.995 --> 00:18:18.145
there that's twisted their six, five PRCs,
a whole inch faster than Sammy's spec

00:18:19.024 --> 00:18:22.144
and that's pushing it at 320, 000 RPM.

00:18:23.625 --> 00:18:24.574
That that's spinning.

00:18:24.889 --> 00:18:25.360
Yeah.

00:18:25.690 --> 00:18:26.610
And it's.

00:18:27.020 --> 00:18:28.710
Travis Bader: So why would
they do that outside semi spec

00:18:28.710 --> 00:18:29.770
just for marketing purposes?

00:18:30.360 --> 00:18:33.899
Matt Siemens: Well, I think the general,
general topic is, and I've always had it

00:18:33.899 --> 00:18:35.490
too, when in Dell, it's spinning faster.

00:18:35.540 --> 00:18:35.939
Right.

00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:40.909
But I, I, with my thinking of that
was back when I was building dangerous

00:18:40.909 --> 00:18:44.889
game guns and you want to be able
to get to the vitals from any angle.

00:18:45.429 --> 00:18:47.090
And if it's too slow, it veers off.

00:18:47.250 --> 00:18:48.929
So when in Dell, it's spinning faster.

00:18:49.159 --> 00:18:51.730
But when you're shooting solids, it's a
different story than shooting cup and core

00:18:51.730 --> 00:18:54.260
bullets, expanding bullets, I should say.

00:18:54.260 --> 00:18:59.019
Cause some non expanding solids will
be cup and core as well, just reversed.

00:18:59.020 --> 00:18:59.270
Travis Bader: Right.

00:18:59.360 --> 00:19:03.690
So for me, I'm used to
primarily hunting within BC.

00:19:04.250 --> 00:19:08.620
I've done a little bit in the U S, uh,
what are some of the biggest differences

00:19:08.620 --> 00:19:13.290
that I'm going to find for my style of
hunting over here for North American

00:19:13.290 --> 00:19:15.350
game than I would over in Africa?

00:19:17.350 --> 00:19:17.740
The amount of

00:19:17.750 --> 00:19:18.689
Matt Siemens: game you're going to see.

00:19:18.949 --> 00:19:19.279
Yeah.

00:19:19.660 --> 00:19:24.529
And, uh, this is going to sound
terrible, but spotlighting.

00:19:25.249 --> 00:19:25.769
Okay.

00:19:25.820 --> 00:19:26.230
Yeah.

00:19:26.269 --> 00:19:30.840
I've done it in New Zealand,
Australia, Pakistan, Africa, and

00:19:30.860 --> 00:19:32.929
it's an acceptable way to hunt.

00:19:33.510 --> 00:19:34.770
It's a different way to hunt.

00:19:35.445 --> 00:19:40.335
Travis Bader: Um, so are you just doing
that to see where the glare comes back

00:19:40.335 --> 00:19:43.035
off of eyes or you try to freeze them or.

00:19:43.635 --> 00:19:44.595
It's going out to,

00:19:44.625 --> 00:19:47.235
Matt Siemens: uh, some animals
are more nocturnal, so you should

00:19:47.235 --> 00:19:48.615
look for the nocturnal species.

00:19:49.705 --> 00:19:53.554
It's just, you should do it one day
at one, I bring a group over, we'll do

00:19:53.554 --> 00:19:54.995
one night at one day and night hunting.

00:19:55.105 --> 00:19:55.485
Okay.

00:19:55.524 --> 00:19:58.105
It's just a different experience
that you can't do here legally.

00:19:59.055 --> 00:20:00.445
And it's a hundred percent legal there.

00:20:00.625 --> 00:20:03.265
You're not, you're not shooting
your impala and your stuff.

00:20:03.265 --> 00:20:07.674
You're shooting the night species,
like honey badger, stuff like that.

00:20:07.675 --> 00:20:10.985
And jackal and all that fun stuff.

00:20:11.155 --> 00:20:15.224
Travis Bader: I remember I was in,
um, an area here in BC and we're

00:20:15.225 --> 00:20:18.995
coming back from our hunt for the
day, you know, sun's going down.

00:20:19.004 --> 00:20:22.864
We've got, uh, one hour after
sunset for legal shooting.

00:20:22.965 --> 00:20:23.905
And as we're heading.

00:20:24.985 --> 00:20:28.255
We see a truck going up and people
sitting on the back of it and they

00:20:28.255 --> 00:20:31.835
got their big spotlight and like, hold
on a second, what's going on here.

00:20:31.855 --> 00:20:32.175
Right.

00:20:32.185 --> 00:20:36.674
And so I get on the report, oppose
your polluter line and get a hold of,

00:20:36.705 --> 00:20:38.115
just let them know what's going on.

00:20:38.115 --> 00:20:41.555
And I, and I get a, um,
uh, someone come back.

00:20:41.780 --> 00:20:46.470
Got back to me afterwards and says, well,
uh, certain people are allowed to do that.

00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:47.690
Like, what do you mean?

00:20:47.710 --> 00:20:47.960
Right.

00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:50.770
And indigenous groups, they say,
we're, we're not going to touch it.

00:20:51.210 --> 00:20:53.989
So I researched a little bit further
and I guess there was a court case

00:20:53.989 --> 00:20:57.589
here in British Columbia and there's
an indigenous group over on the

00:20:57.620 --> 00:20:59.709
island and they were successful.

00:20:59.719 --> 00:21:04.280
And they said back in, um, ancestral
hunting time, we'd go with torches

00:21:04.280 --> 00:21:05.960
and they made their case that way.

00:21:06.300 --> 00:21:08.690
But it only applies to that one area.

00:21:08.790 --> 00:21:12.540
And I guess it took a while for
conservation officers to kind of get

00:21:12.540 --> 00:21:15.470
the grounding and know what's allowed
and what's permitted and what isn't.

00:21:15.769 --> 00:21:19.010
Now it's pretty well accepted
that, no, you can't do that.

00:21:19.040 --> 00:21:22.179
And, you know, we work with a lot
of different indigenous groups and

00:21:22.179 --> 00:21:23.669
like, yeah, no, we don't do that.

00:21:23.889 --> 00:21:26.370
You can't, this is just
a rogue group of people.

00:21:26.379 --> 00:21:27.040
There's always a few

00:21:27.040 --> 00:21:27.690
Matt Siemens: bad apples.

00:21:27.750 --> 00:21:28.590
Always going to be that way.

00:21:28.629 --> 00:21:31.899
And we're, we're dealing with that
stuff now in the province with,

00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.060
with, with some of the first nations.

00:21:35.409 --> 00:21:38.920
Are trying to do, and they have,
they're trying to, they're trying

00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:40.130
to manage it as a resource.

00:21:40.770 --> 00:21:45.189
And then you have other groups
that, from my point of view,

00:21:45.189 --> 00:21:47.739
you're trying to eliminate it
because there's no sustainability.

00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:50.110
Yeah, but that's, that's
another rabbit hole.

00:21:50.619 --> 00:21:50.839
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:21:50.840 --> 00:21:52.659
You know, it's a friend of mine.

00:21:52.659 --> 00:21:57.260
He was, uh, on the podcast before
conservation officer Ojibwe bear

00:21:57.260 --> 00:22:01.270
clan is his background and the bear
clan is they're the protectors of the

00:22:01.270 --> 00:22:07.104
environment and the people in the, um,
Very interesting talking to him about

00:22:07.104 --> 00:22:12.725
that subject and talking to, uh, cause
he approaches it both from the indigenous

00:22:12.725 --> 00:22:17.064
side, as well as the conservation officer
side, man, I learned a lot, like just

00:22:17.074 --> 00:22:20.674
the sheer number of different groups
that we have here in British Columbia and

00:22:20.674 --> 00:22:25.485
the number of groups that are going well
above and beyond what, uh, non indigenous

00:22:25.485 --> 00:22:30.345
folks are doing to help conserve and
to protect what's going on there.

00:22:30.385 --> 00:22:30.745
It was.

00:22:31.035 --> 00:22:33.325
There's a really encouraging
conversation, actually.

00:22:33.645 --> 00:22:34.045
Yeah.

00:22:34.105 --> 00:22:35.315
Matt Siemens: Like I said,
there's some guys out there

00:22:35.315 --> 00:22:36.265
trying to do the right thing.

00:22:36.265 --> 00:22:39.774
And there's some guys out there
with, with no, not looking

00:22:39.774 --> 00:22:41.465
for the future, unfortunately.

00:22:41.565 --> 00:22:41.685
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:22:41.685 --> 00:22:43.365
There's always going
to be those bad apples.

00:22:43.875 --> 00:22:47.964
Um, you know, speaking of that, part of
the reason I thought this would be kind

00:22:47.964 --> 00:22:51.374
of interesting is because you bring that
background and that wealth of experience

00:22:51.524 --> 00:22:55.904
and you're, you're, uh, dealing in
an area that most people from North

00:22:55.904 --> 00:22:58.984
America don't have familiarity with.

00:22:59.610 --> 00:23:03.269
You know, you look at how the news
will portray African hunting and how

00:23:03.269 --> 00:23:06.989
social media can portray it, but there's
a whole other side to that as well.

00:23:06.989 --> 00:23:10.569
And this is something that, uh, my friend
who's a PH was getting into is like, you

00:23:10.569 --> 00:23:14.370
know, the amount of good that comes out
of the African hunting, the amount of

00:23:14.370 --> 00:23:18.769
conservation efforts and money that's put
back into the society and species that

00:23:18.769 --> 00:23:20.669
are only around because of the hunting.

00:23:21.540 --> 00:23:25.510
And that's something that, uh, hunters
will talk about, but I don't think

00:23:25.520 --> 00:23:30.770
the, uh, the general populace is,
is aware of, of all of those ins and

00:23:30.770 --> 00:23:31.100
Matt Siemens: outs.

00:23:31.170 --> 00:23:31.510
No.

00:23:31.510 --> 00:23:36.300
And how much of the animals actually
used in Africa would blow people's mind.

00:23:36.670 --> 00:23:37.090
Really?

00:23:37.130 --> 00:23:37.480
Yeah.

00:23:37.520 --> 00:23:42.890
Like I'm, it would be funny if
BC conservation would enforce the

00:23:42.890 --> 00:23:44.720
edible meat law to African standards.

00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:45.450
What's their

00:23:45.450 --> 00:23:45.980
Travis Bader: standards?

00:23:47.024 --> 00:23:48.764
Matt Siemens: If it's made
of protein, it can rot.

00:23:48.784 --> 00:23:49.485
You can eat it.

00:23:49.874 --> 00:23:50.284
Travis Bader: Really?

00:23:50.294 --> 00:23:50.495
Yeah.

00:23:51.525 --> 00:23:51.765
Yeah.

00:23:51.765 --> 00:23:56.975
We don't, uh, you know, BC conservation
has got to, and we've got a good standard

00:23:57.004 --> 00:23:59.235
over here, but not to the same degree.

00:23:59.245 --> 00:23:59.895
In Namibia,

00:23:59.895 --> 00:24:05.355
Matt Siemens: when you shoot a Gamsbok,
they clean the colon out and then they.

00:24:06.085 --> 00:24:10.205
Barbecue it till it's crispy
and they think it tastes great.

00:24:10.495 --> 00:24:11.875
Well, have you tried it?

00:24:12.575 --> 00:24:14.335
Oh, it's like eating crispy rubber bands.

00:24:14.645 --> 00:24:14.905
Okay.

00:24:14.905 --> 00:24:17.495
But, uh, it's, I'd rather have
a Reese's peanut butter cup.

00:24:17.495 --> 00:24:17.765
Right.

00:24:17.804 --> 00:24:19.954
But it's, um, they, they swear by it.

00:24:19.995 --> 00:24:25.674
I mean, I always try everything just
be part of it, but no, they eat like

00:24:25.675 --> 00:24:29.985
they'll clean the poncho, everything.

00:24:30.065 --> 00:24:32.565
And if they don't eat
it, their dogs eat it.

00:24:33.155 --> 00:24:35.695
I've seen them take stomach
contents in buckets.

00:24:35.995 --> 00:24:38.225
Back to the house for
fertilizer in the garden.

00:24:39.225 --> 00:24:39.395
It

00:24:39.665 --> 00:24:40.475
Travis Bader: totally makes sense.

00:24:40.504 --> 00:24:40.774
Matt Siemens: Yep.

00:24:40.865 --> 00:24:42.595
It's nothing goes

00:24:42.595 --> 00:24:43.304
Travis Bader: to waste.

00:24:43.729 --> 00:24:48.199
We had a, a butcher on the podcast and
he's talking about how he uses every

00:24:48.199 --> 00:24:50.700
part of the animals through his abattoir.

00:24:50.820 --> 00:24:50.970
Yeah.

00:24:50.970 --> 00:24:55.950
And he's watching how making
compost out of it and the, the

00:24:55.950 --> 00:24:59.340
effects that it's having on, uh, the
orchards that he's putting it in.

00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:00.840
Matt Siemens: I mean, the
North Americans got it.

00:25:00.840 --> 00:25:03.750
We got it pretty, pretty
down pat with pigs.

00:25:03.870 --> 00:25:03.960
Mm.

00:25:04.495 --> 00:25:05.875
You know, the only thing
they don't use in the pig.

00:25:05.875 --> 00:25:05.955
Right.

00:25:07.580 --> 00:25:09.230
Travis Bader: Well, what's that
the toenails and the snout?

00:25:09.300 --> 00:25:09.930
The squeal.

00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:10.930
The squeal,

00:25:10.930 --> 00:25:11.129
Matt Siemens: okay.

00:25:11.139 --> 00:25:14.430
Everything, everything else is used, but
Africa, everything is treated that way.

00:25:14.980 --> 00:25:16.720
Absolutely everything.

00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:20.070
I was shocked, like shooting
hyenas and jackals, they eat that.

00:25:20.550 --> 00:25:21.080
Okay.

00:25:21.150 --> 00:25:21.350
Yeah.

00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:24.360
Some of the, like I've shot cats
there and they eat them like,

00:25:24.360 --> 00:25:26.080
like nothing goes to waste.

00:25:26.089 --> 00:25:26.380
So I

00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:28.500
Travis Bader: had, um,
I've had cougar here.

00:25:28.520 --> 00:25:28.710
Yeah.

00:25:28.790 --> 00:25:29.940
I've never hunted cougar.

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.480
Um, last SCI dinner I was at, uh, I
think it was Tammy, she was doing the,

00:25:34.490 --> 00:25:36.030
the cooking out there and cook some up.

00:25:36.584 --> 00:25:37.324
That's fantastic.

00:25:37.324 --> 00:25:37.524
Yeah.

00:25:37.804 --> 00:25:38.425
Yeah, she did.

00:25:38.455 --> 00:25:42.365
Uh, and you don't think, I don't know,
I don't think most people would normally

00:25:42.385 --> 00:25:46.135
think eating cougar would actually be
a good meat, but yeah, it was amazing.

00:25:47.045 --> 00:25:48.384
Matt Siemens: You know, and
there's been a big push.

00:25:48.405 --> 00:25:53.094
Like you see some of the guys now
trying to push eating coyotes and stuff.

00:25:53.104 --> 00:25:53.574
Well, okay.

00:25:53.574 --> 00:25:57.279
I'll draw a line there, but, um,
I'll, I'll try most things, but.

00:25:58.450 --> 00:25:59.450
Travis Bader: Yeah, I can't see.

00:25:59.450 --> 00:26:00.430
I'd be too keen on that.

00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:03.430
And I don't know if that's
because we have a, an emotional

00:26:03.430 --> 00:26:04.880
connection to our own dogs.

00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:08.289
And you look at that or you look at
what these things eat and the amount

00:26:08.290 --> 00:26:10.420
of bugs that they have in their body.

00:26:10.780 --> 00:26:11.410
Um,

00:26:11.770 --> 00:26:13.970
Matt Siemens: yeah,
it's something, no harm.

00:26:13.970 --> 00:26:16.389
Anybody wants to try it, but it's not

00:26:16.389 --> 00:26:17.150
Travis Bader: my cup of tea.

00:26:17.649 --> 00:26:21.240
I think Ranella said that he tried,
uh, Eaton, Eaton Coyote at one

00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:21.490
Matt Siemens: point.

00:26:21.490 --> 00:26:21.659
Yeah.

00:26:21.659 --> 00:26:25.199
I've seen one of his, uh, shows on it.

00:26:25.399 --> 00:26:25.829
Okay.

00:26:25.879 --> 00:26:28.309
And I guess you can put enough spice
on anything to make it taste what

00:26:28.310 --> 00:26:31.069
you want, but it's, it's just the

00:26:31.070 --> 00:26:31.599
Travis Bader: thought of it.

00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:31.909
Right.

00:26:32.190 --> 00:26:36.279
Remember that guy in the States, I think
he was a dentist, maybe a doctor and

00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:38.830
he, uh, shot a lion over and after it.

00:26:38.870 --> 00:26:42.840
I think he, from what I understand,
everything was done above board legally.

00:26:42.879 --> 00:26:43.929
Matt Siemens: 100 percent legal.

00:26:44.390 --> 00:26:48.870
Travis Bader: And he posted it on social
media and he was getting death threats.

00:26:48.890 --> 00:26:49.360
Dr.

00:26:49.360 --> 00:26:50.250
Matt Siemens: Walter Palmer.

00:26:50.330 --> 00:26:50.680
Okay.

00:26:50.690 --> 00:26:53.590
He came, he used to come to
the Cabela store I used to work

00:26:53.590 --> 00:26:53.780
Travis Bader: at.

00:26:54.020 --> 00:26:54.430
Okay.

00:26:54.450 --> 00:26:54.730
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

00:26:55.230 --> 00:26:59.109
And, uh, he had even guilty of
what they accused him of, and

00:26:59.109 --> 00:27:00.110
then they found out he wasn't.

00:27:00.170 --> 00:27:00.470
Right.

00:27:00.620 --> 00:27:02.040
It would have been a 300 fine.

00:27:02.874 --> 00:27:08.205
Like it wasn't even a, it was
breaking the law is breaking the law.

00:27:08.215 --> 00:27:10.025
So it's not right, but they hadn't.

00:27:10.305 --> 00:27:10.585
Right.

00:27:10.605 --> 00:27:14.305
And, uh, it's an area I've hunted
real close to where he shot that lion.

00:27:14.355 --> 00:27:14.695
Okay.

00:27:15.034 --> 00:27:18.725
And the national park boundary,
they come and go all the time.

00:27:18.795 --> 00:27:19.475
And that's all it was.

00:27:19.475 --> 00:27:21.134
It came out of the park
and they shot the lion.

00:27:21.785 --> 00:27:22.185
Okay.

00:27:22.205 --> 00:27:24.995
And the big thing, funny thing there
is they called it Cecil the lion.

00:27:25.615 --> 00:27:26.585
Oh, you name it.

00:27:26.655 --> 00:27:27.435
Yeah, you name it.

00:27:27.455 --> 00:27:28.805
And that's the first thing, but.

00:27:30.074 --> 00:27:35.685
No self respecting Zimbabwean
is going to name a lion after

00:27:35.685 --> 00:27:37.405
the big oppressor Cecil Rhodes.

00:27:38.314 --> 00:27:40.975
So it was fabrication
right from the start.

00:27:40.985 --> 00:27:43.414
And they played on heartstrings,
people who didn't know.

00:27:43.414 --> 00:27:47.184
And, and when I talked to people
over there about it, cause I hunted

00:27:47.185 --> 00:27:51.475
there since and like the locals
would never name something Cecil.

00:27:52.025 --> 00:27:52.595
No kidding.

00:27:52.625 --> 00:27:52.865
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:27:53.665 --> 00:27:54.585
We'll just watch a watch.

00:27:54.585 --> 00:27:55.855
It keeps, oh, there we go.

00:27:55.895 --> 00:27:56.775
Not, not in positive

00:27:56.775 --> 00:27:57.375
Matt Siemens: light anyways.

00:27:57.375 --> 00:27:57.625
Right,

00:27:57.675 --> 00:27:58.015
Travis Bader: right.

00:27:58.045 --> 00:27:58.465
Yes.

00:27:59.565 --> 00:28:06.889
Um, so is that something that, uh, you've
had to deal with is people, uh, I don't,

00:28:06.889 --> 00:28:12.294
I don't see you posting a whole bunch
of, uh, stuff that would be controversial

00:28:12.294 --> 00:28:16.925
on social media, but if you had to
deal with, uh, Uh, individuals who are

00:28:16.925 --> 00:28:20.574
just adamantly against us who might not
have the background or knowledge of,

00:28:20.604 --> 00:28:21.334
Matt Siemens: of what you're doing.

00:28:21.475 --> 00:28:21.634
Yeah.

00:28:21.634 --> 00:28:22.455
I've had death threats.

00:28:22.465 --> 00:28:26.434
Uh, the first one we thought was
kind of comical, uh, was back when I

00:28:26.434 --> 00:28:29.724
was in Michigan in the gun library,
we put pictures up of stuff we'd

00:28:29.724 --> 00:28:31.804
shot, credibility to gun library.

00:28:32.775 --> 00:28:34.775
And I put a picture up
of a giraffe I shot.

00:28:35.125 --> 00:28:35.395
Okay.

00:28:35.465 --> 00:28:39.075
And, um, one of the guys
from work sent me a link.

00:28:39.075 --> 00:28:39.985
Hey, check out this link.

00:28:39.985 --> 00:28:44.205
And here, here was this blog and
they were going to find the guy who

00:28:44.205 --> 00:28:45.614
killed this giraffe and come get him.

00:28:46.485 --> 00:28:48.484
And my picture was on the blog.

00:28:48.485 --> 00:28:49.594
I thought it was comical.

00:28:49.605 --> 00:28:52.504
So I jumped on the blog and asked
the guys where they wanted to meet.

00:28:52.504 --> 00:28:54.514
And of course no one piped up.

00:28:55.175 --> 00:28:56.024
I don't think it's those.

00:28:57.630 --> 00:28:59.360
It is a dangerous situation.

00:28:59.360 --> 00:29:04.500
Some of these people are quite
fanatical and with the family and

00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:07.600
stuff, it's any death threat I get
now, I deal with it accordingly.

00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:13.080
I have contact authorities and, and,
um, try getting it dealt with because

00:29:13.090 --> 00:29:14.469
it is, what I'm doing is legal.

00:29:15.035 --> 00:29:18.875
Science, conservation based,
and there's a reason I do it.

00:29:19.125 --> 00:29:23.554
I, I enjoy it for one, but it's money
back in the environment, it's things

00:29:23.554 --> 00:29:26.225
working, it's managing the herd, right?

00:29:27.354 --> 00:29:27.705
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:29:27.804 --> 00:29:29.974
If somebody is going to threaten
you, whether it's a death threat

00:29:29.975 --> 00:29:33.574
or just a threat in any way, shape
or form, one thing I've learned

00:29:33.644 --> 00:29:35.224
is you never laugh them off.

00:29:35.274 --> 00:29:35.584
Nope.

00:29:35.644 --> 00:29:37.294
You always take it seriously.

00:29:37.364 --> 00:29:39.164
Worst case scenario, you're wrong.

00:29:40.284 --> 00:29:42.214
The other way around, worst case scenario.

00:29:43.070 --> 00:29:48.560
I'd rather be wrong acting accordingly
than treating it as if it was

00:29:48.560 --> 00:29:49.030
Matt Siemens: a joke.

00:29:49.110 --> 00:29:49.320
Yeah.

00:29:49.320 --> 00:29:52.900
The whole hunting thing draws very
heavy emotions from both sides.

00:29:53.820 --> 00:29:55.979
And you get fanaticals on both sides too.

00:29:55.980 --> 00:30:00.100
And like I said earlier, bad apples,
but it seems like the anti hunting

00:30:00.100 --> 00:30:04.170
movement is based on a whole lot of
things on emotion without any scientific,

00:30:04.410 --> 00:30:05.710
very little science behind it.

00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:08.770
Travis Bader: And that's one
thing we see over and over again.

00:30:08.770 --> 00:30:12.850
I mean, when we're talking about,
uh, uh, wolf culling over here and

00:30:12.850 --> 00:30:16.200
we're talking about caribou herds
and, uh, everyone talks about,

00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:17.580
oh, this is, there's no science.

00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:18.469
This is all emotion.

00:30:18.469 --> 00:30:19.550
Then you're reacting to it.

00:30:20.170 --> 00:30:23.349
And then people will pull out
or cherry pick their science

00:30:23.349 --> 00:30:24.519
or cherry pick their stats.

00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:28.750
And I don't know if it was Disraeli that
said it, but someone attributed it to him.

00:30:28.760 --> 00:30:32.580
He says, you know, there's liars,
damn liars and statisticians, right?

00:30:33.360 --> 00:30:35.130
You can make that look any way you want.

00:30:35.780 --> 00:30:43.370
Um, how do you start separating that
emotion to be able to, uh, articulate

00:30:43.960 --> 00:30:47.149
what it is that you're doing, or do
you bother, like, do you just let

00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:50.110
people have their emotions and you
say, look at what I'm doing is legal.

00:30:50.110 --> 00:30:51.369
It's helping the environment.

00:30:51.370 --> 00:30:53.270
It's based on conservation.

00:30:53.370 --> 00:30:54.870
Like, where do you fall in that?

00:30:55.230 --> 00:30:59.420
Matt Siemens: You have to kind of
take it and, um, try to weigh your

00:30:59.420 --> 00:31:03.400
audience to see, see if you have
any chance of making any headway.

00:31:04.280 --> 00:31:06.050
And it's, I've seen it.

00:31:07.949 --> 00:31:10.930
I've converted a few people, but there
are some people you can't convert.

00:31:12.700 --> 00:31:15.880
When I lived in the States, it's a little,
little different topic, but very similar.

00:31:16.560 --> 00:31:20.140
Gun control and the
classic word machine gun.

00:31:21.650 --> 00:31:24.440
One of my good friend I worked
with, he had his class three, he

00:31:24.450 --> 00:31:26.950
had a bunch of neat stuff and he
had an old original Tommy gun.

00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:27.500
Right.

00:31:28.460 --> 00:31:32.720
And we would take people out
who were anti gun, anti machine

00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:33.790
gun, nobody should own this.

00:31:33.790 --> 00:31:38.830
Nobody knows what it takes to own them,
the cost of them and all the licensing.

00:31:39.109 --> 00:31:41.609
You could take the biggest anti
gun person and give them that Tommy

00:31:41.609 --> 00:31:44.650
gun and you couldn't remove their
smile with a jackhammer after.

00:31:45.215 --> 00:31:48.725
They might not be pro gun, right, but
they come out with a different point

00:31:48.735 --> 00:31:53.295
of view, especially when they start
talking and asking questions about how

00:31:53.295 --> 00:31:58.085
much it costs to get a gun, legal gun
and the paperwork and the background

00:31:58.085 --> 00:32:01.184
checks and all your tax stamps and stuff.

00:32:01.185 --> 00:32:03.589
And they realize that these things
aren't for sale in the street corners.

00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:05.840
No, they're a heavy investment.

00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:11.330
Travis Bader: Well, how is, cause
of course we've been under a liberal

00:32:11.330 --> 00:32:15.439
government for the last number of years,
looks like things might be changing based

00:32:15.439 --> 00:32:20.140
on polling and where things are at, people
are getting tired of the same old, same

00:32:20.140 --> 00:32:21.709
old, and where that's been leading them.

00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:25.349
But one of the big pushes that you've
been seeing is obviously on the

00:32:25.349 --> 00:32:30.889
firearm side and trying to restrict
or eliminate classes of firearms.

00:32:31.199 --> 00:32:32.169
How has that been?

00:32:32.735 --> 00:32:36.345
Impacting your livelihood and
the business that you work with.

00:32:36.355 --> 00:32:39.995
Have you been seeing that as
a, uh, significant threat?

00:32:41.515 --> 00:32:45.575
Matt Siemens: Substantial downturn
with loss of handguns, handgun sales,

00:32:46.015 --> 00:32:48.005
ammunition sales and handgun calibers are.

00:32:48.810 --> 00:32:49.910
I've slowed down as well.

00:32:51.430 --> 00:32:53.160
You don't sell as much two,
two, three as you used to.

00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:54.290
Travis Bader: No.

00:32:54.580 --> 00:32:57.510
Matt Siemens: And it's,
it's definitely a threat.

00:32:59.110 --> 00:33:01.840
They're not going to stop
with what they have now.

00:33:02.760 --> 00:33:04.259
Travis Bader: I think we
made that pretty darn clear.

00:33:04.930 --> 00:33:10.359
Matt Siemens: It's if they were based
on actual science and crime reports

00:33:10.360 --> 00:33:12.810
and listening to chief of police and
all that kind of stuff, we wouldn't

00:33:12.810 --> 00:33:13.900
even be having this conversation.

00:33:14.620 --> 00:33:17.010
It's not you and me causing the problems.

00:33:17.110 --> 00:33:18.090
Travis Bader: Well, the police don't even.

00:33:18.950 --> 00:33:22.910
They used to have, Hey, you know, chief
of police, you union of police officers,

00:33:22.910 --> 00:33:25.280
and, uh, they're, they're backing this.

00:33:25.330 --> 00:33:26.290
They don't even have that.

00:33:26.329 --> 00:33:31.129
Matt Siemens: No, it won't make any
difference because it's not the legal guy.

00:33:31.130 --> 00:33:31.830
That's the problem.

00:33:32.380 --> 00:33:32.910
Yes.

00:33:33.019 --> 00:33:36.179
A handful of guns get stolen every
year and it shouldn't happen,

00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.900
but in the courts, the guys get
caught stealing a gun in there.

00:33:42.115 --> 00:33:44.165
They're out before the
paperwork's finished.

00:33:44.175 --> 00:33:44.965
Travis Bader: They're in, they're out.

00:33:45.015 --> 00:33:45.245
Yeah.

00:33:45.355 --> 00:33:45.745
Right.

00:33:46.475 --> 00:33:51.575
Yeah, it's, uh, it's funny, the tie
between the firearm side that we see, the

00:33:51.575 --> 00:33:56.535
emotions involved there, as well as on
the hunting side, the second you name the

00:33:56.535 --> 00:33:58.684
animal, a second, it's furry and fuzzy.

00:33:58.765 --> 00:34:05.855
You don't see, you see, um, Uh,
seals, they're cute and big eyes

00:34:05.865 --> 00:34:07.155
and baby seals and all the rest.

00:34:07.155 --> 00:34:11.395
And so there'll be the poster child on
a, on an anti hunting, uh, campaign.

00:34:11.395 --> 00:34:15.394
You don't see slugs and eels and,
uh, the, the ugly critters out there.

00:34:15.394 --> 00:34:17.095
No, it's only the, only the cute ones.

00:34:17.314 --> 00:34:17.774
Yeah.

00:34:18.965 --> 00:34:23.495
Is there a case to be made,
uh, for hunting, uh, that can,

00:34:23.545 --> 00:34:25.315
uh, elicit similar emotions?

00:34:28.230 --> 00:34:28.850
In what way?

00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:33.090
Well, I mean, if anti hunters, cause
we were talking about this before,

00:34:33.160 --> 00:34:36.869
and you're saying, you know, if,
if the, uh, hunting community could

00:34:36.869 --> 00:34:42.020
get together and work together as a
team in the same way that the anti

00:34:42.049 --> 00:34:44.439
hunting community will get together.

00:34:44.825 --> 00:34:47.665
Um, and we'd be an unstoppable force.

00:34:47.715 --> 00:34:47.925
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

00:34:47.925 --> 00:34:51.535
If the, if the hunting community
would be a cohesive as the

00:34:51.535 --> 00:34:53.215
antis, we'd be unstoppable.

00:34:53.355 --> 00:34:53.594
Right.

00:34:53.594 --> 00:34:56.315
But here you have the bow
hunters against these people,

00:34:56.315 --> 00:34:57.544
Oh, you hunt with a crossbow.

00:34:57.735 --> 00:34:58.795
You're not a real archer.

00:34:58.815 --> 00:35:00.834
And it's, it's, this goes down that road.

00:35:01.045 --> 00:35:01.375
Right.

00:35:01.404 --> 00:35:02.994
It's never ending.

00:35:03.035 --> 00:35:04.125
It's global.

00:35:04.185 --> 00:35:12.105
Uh, we're this industry or just
sport is full of A type personalities

00:35:12.215 --> 00:35:18.004
and everybody wants, wants to
have their, their voice heard.

00:35:18.004 --> 00:35:20.215
And they're the most
important way of hunting.

00:35:20.985 --> 00:35:23.435
SCI fights for all hunting
doesn't make a difference.

00:35:23.454 --> 00:35:26.415
And I use the term sport and I don't even
like using that when I talk about hunting.

00:35:27.155 --> 00:35:31.155
Sport hunting term came from my
research on it came way back when they

00:35:31.155 --> 00:35:32.565
actually, actually have market hunting.

00:35:33.055 --> 00:35:33.295
Okay.

00:35:33.335 --> 00:35:34.505
So the guy would say, I'm going hunting.

00:35:34.505 --> 00:35:36.295
Why are you, is that for your job?

00:35:36.305 --> 00:35:37.065
No, it's my sport.

00:35:37.065 --> 00:35:38.625
I'm going out for my own enjoyment.

00:35:38.805 --> 00:35:43.795
It's not a sport like football is, but
it was a recreational activity where

00:35:43.795 --> 00:35:46.874
the guy could fill his freezer and do
that kind of, he wasn't going out to

00:35:46.874 --> 00:35:48.374
sell the meat, he's going out for his

00:35:48.374 --> 00:35:49.275
Travis Bader: own, own use.

00:35:49.395 --> 00:35:52.535
I, I heard a Ron Spomer recently
come up and he's like, you know

00:35:52.535 --> 00:35:53.575
why it's called sport hunting?

00:35:54.115 --> 00:35:58.325
He says, because there are rules
and regulations and limits to

00:35:58.325 --> 00:36:01.065
what you're like any other sport.

00:36:01.265 --> 00:36:02.675
It's not just go out there and.

00:36:03.105 --> 00:36:04.515
And kill whatever is out there.

00:36:04.565 --> 00:36:07.665
There's very strict protocol
that needs to be cut followed,

00:36:07.945 --> 00:36:09.445
which is why they call it sports.

00:36:09.455 --> 00:36:10.695
So that was, that was his take on it.

00:36:10.695 --> 00:36:12.725
I thought, you know,
that's very well said.

00:36:13.005 --> 00:36:14.285
I thought so as well.

00:36:14.335 --> 00:36:19.175
And the, I know in the province
here, everyone talks about,

00:36:19.205 --> 00:36:20.885
you look in our provincial.

00:36:21.315 --> 00:36:23.685
Uh, websites and legislation
and everything that they

00:36:23.685 --> 00:36:25.295
talk about sport hunting.

00:36:25.685 --> 00:36:27.305
And everyone says, we got
to get rid of that term.

00:36:27.305 --> 00:36:28.445
It's such a bad term.

00:36:29.685 --> 00:36:31.855
Well, do we need to get rid of
the term or do people need to

00:36:31.855 --> 00:36:34.135
understand, need to educate, right?

00:36:34.445 --> 00:36:36.604
We it's a sport, not in the same way.

00:36:36.605 --> 00:36:38.095
Like, ha ha, this is a fun sport.

00:36:38.095 --> 00:36:39.124
It's go and kill something.

00:36:39.125 --> 00:36:39.375
No.

00:36:39.820 --> 00:36:42.340
There are strict protocol
that we have to follow.

00:36:42.340 --> 00:36:45.490
We need to be able to harvest only
within certain times of the day,

00:36:45.490 --> 00:36:49.620
certain times of the year, certain
species, certain, uh, age groups.

00:36:49.990 --> 00:36:53.630
And we need to use all, all of the animal.

00:36:53.630 --> 00:36:59.490
And it's all done in conjunction
with, uh, biologists who are looking

00:36:59.490 --> 00:37:03.450
at, uh, reproduction rates and,
uh, what's going to be the best

00:37:03.460 --> 00:37:04.260
Matt Siemens: for the environment.

00:37:04.310 --> 00:37:06.349
Caring capacity, the
land and all that stuff.

00:37:06.349 --> 00:37:06.630
That's right.

00:37:06.630 --> 00:37:09.209
Another one that's real bad
connotations is trophy hunting.

00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:15.630
And if people look at me and I say, I'm a
trophy hunter and they just go off irate.

00:37:15.790 --> 00:37:17.090
So let me give you an example.

00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:23.370
You have a field of 14 deer out
there, seven or bucks, you have seven

00:37:23.370 --> 00:37:28.180
trophy hunters, you have six bucks
left in the field when the hunt's

00:37:28.180 --> 00:37:30.439
over, you have seven meat hunters.

00:37:31.109 --> 00:37:31.579
They're all gone.

00:37:31.589 --> 00:37:32.150
They're all gone.

00:37:32.430 --> 00:37:32.810
Right.

00:37:32.910 --> 00:37:34.250
It's, I haven't shot.

00:37:35.900 --> 00:37:38.970
I've not shot game before, cause
it was raining and I didn't want to

00:37:38.970 --> 00:37:40.290
deal with a wet animal in the rain.

00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:42.640
I mean, it's, I enjoy being out there.

00:37:42.770 --> 00:37:43.010
Yep.

00:37:43.060 --> 00:37:44.900
It was nice and a whole
lot, but it wasn't.

00:37:45.855 --> 00:37:47.155
I didn't have to take it.

00:37:47.595 --> 00:37:51.725
I didn't have to feel the freezer, but
anything I do take, everything is used.

00:37:52.645 --> 00:37:56.355
Not that African standard, but
everything, everything's used.

00:37:56.355 --> 00:37:59.595
Travis Bader: I, you're not deep
frying up the, uh, the colon

00:37:59.595 --> 00:37:59.715
Matt Siemens: and.

00:37:59.725 --> 00:38:03.575
No, I, I do a lot of, I make a lot
of bill tongue and drawer wars.

00:38:03.654 --> 00:38:04.545
I love bill tongue.

00:38:04.644 --> 00:38:07.445
The South African dried
meat and dried sausage.

00:38:07.545 --> 00:38:08.145
What was the other one you

00:38:08.145 --> 00:38:08.355
Travis Bader: said?

00:38:08.355 --> 00:38:08.755
Drawer wars.

00:38:08.755 --> 00:38:09.945
Drawer wars, dried sausage.

00:38:10.200 --> 00:38:10.480
Okay.

00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:10.830
Okay.

00:38:10.830 --> 00:38:11.020
Yeah.

00:38:11.050 --> 00:38:13.120
I didn't know that's what it's
called, but I quite like that.

00:38:13.170 --> 00:38:13.630
I make

00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:14.470
Matt Siemens: quite a bit of it.

00:38:14.490 --> 00:38:19.019
And a lot of times I'm running to
the store when they have ground beef

00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:20.620
on sale, I'm making it with that.

00:38:20.650 --> 00:38:24.709
But otherwise I'm using loose
term venison, all this stuff.

00:38:24.710 --> 00:38:27.609
I, all the stuff I shoot,
whether it's antelope or moose or

00:38:27.619 --> 00:38:28.289
Travis Bader: elk, it's.

00:38:28.879 --> 00:38:32.200
I find it's got to have a good fat
cap on it for the biltong just to be.

00:38:32.875 --> 00:38:37.255
Matt Siemens: Yeah, it's, I was on a
hunt in Africa and it was probably, I

00:38:37.255 --> 00:38:43.764
posted a picture and it's three, four
times, three or four times more fat

00:38:43.775 --> 00:38:45.505
than there is, than there is meat.

00:38:45.535 --> 00:38:49.014
But it's, it's the, it absorbs the
flavor differently, the texture.

00:38:49.385 --> 00:38:52.255
If people look at me and I say,
well, try it first and then try it.

00:38:52.255 --> 00:38:53.755
It's like, Oh, I didn't
think it'd be like that.

00:38:53.755 --> 00:38:54.554
You know, it's, it's

00:38:54.555 --> 00:38:54.845
Travis Bader: good.

00:38:55.305 --> 00:38:55.535
Yeah.

00:38:55.535 --> 00:38:57.695
And it's an excellent energy source.

00:38:58.185 --> 00:39:00.434
Like if I'm doing a fly
in hunt, I'll have Biltong

00:39:00.444 --> 00:39:00.775
Matt Siemens: with me.

00:39:01.055 --> 00:39:03.235
Is this basically a little
bit of vinegar on it?

00:39:03.675 --> 00:39:06.945
Um, with some coriander and
salt and pepper and dried.

00:39:07.175 --> 00:39:07.595
That's all it

00:39:07.595 --> 00:39:07.795
Travis Bader: is.

00:39:07.795 --> 00:39:08.355
That's all it is.

00:39:08.605 --> 00:39:10.885
But over in Africa, don't
they just dry it out on rocks?

00:39:11.665 --> 00:39:11.885
Is that.

00:39:11.885 --> 00:39:14.834
Matt Siemens: Yeah,
they still use vinegar.

00:39:14.945 --> 00:39:15.355
Okay.

00:39:15.355 --> 00:39:16.494
Just as an antibacterial.

00:39:16.624 --> 00:39:18.115
I believe I could be wrong on that.

00:39:18.145 --> 00:39:19.234
It adds flavor as well.

00:39:19.265 --> 00:39:19.665
Right.

00:39:20.055 --> 00:39:22.345
And I've done, we went
on a tuna fishing trip.

00:39:22.345 --> 00:39:25.745
So I made a bunch up and I had
all the different types of vinegar

00:39:26.305 --> 00:39:27.335
and it did make a difference

00:39:27.335 --> 00:39:27.845
Travis Bader: in flavor.

00:39:28.095 --> 00:39:29.405
So what's the best vinegar to use?

00:39:29.545 --> 00:39:31.994
Matt Siemens: Malt, brown
malt vinegar is my favorite.

00:39:31.995 --> 00:39:33.025
But I use like, uh.

00:39:33.625 --> 00:39:37.265
Red wine, apple cider,
white, and brown malt.

00:39:37.665 --> 00:39:39.245
And brown malt I found was the best.

00:39:39.275 --> 00:39:39.415
Do you

00:39:39.415 --> 00:39:41.255
Travis Bader: put it in a
dehydrator or what do you do?

00:39:41.845 --> 00:39:42.525
How do you?

00:39:43.445 --> 00:39:46.515
Matt Siemens: I built my own, just,
just pulling warm air over it.

00:39:46.525 --> 00:39:46.864
That's it.

00:39:47.485 --> 00:39:49.975
And then you always that
thing, how, how dry.

00:39:50.145 --> 00:39:51.095
Some guys like it moist.

00:39:51.105 --> 00:39:55.095
Some guys like it bone dry, three or
four days, and then it's done for me.

00:39:55.315 --> 00:39:55.735
Travis Bader: Okay.

00:39:55.805 --> 00:39:56.755
And it lasts pretty long.

00:39:58.315 --> 00:39:58.545
Never

00:39:58.545 --> 00:40:00.445
Matt Siemens: goes rotten
cause you're eating it, right?

00:40:01.265 --> 00:40:01.494
That's what I thought.

00:40:01.494 --> 00:40:02.564
It doesn't last that long.

00:40:02.605 --> 00:40:04.855
I mean, never tried it that way.

00:40:04.855 --> 00:40:05.935
Cause it doesn't last long enough.

00:40:05.935 --> 00:40:06.175
Travis Bader: So.

00:40:06.755 --> 00:40:10.055
With the difficulties that firearms
businesses are facing under the current

00:40:10.055 --> 00:40:15.385
legislation and our current government,
uh, are there, is Korth Group hiring?

00:40:15.524 --> 00:40:19.235
Are they, uh, are they kind of
holding, holding the pattern right now?

00:40:19.455 --> 00:40:19.625
We're

00:40:19.625 --> 00:40:20.295
Matt Siemens: holding the pattern.

00:40:20.305 --> 00:40:24.275
The warehouse is always looking
for good people to, to work.

00:40:24.435 --> 00:40:24.715
Yeah.

00:40:25.474 --> 00:40:26.525
In Okotoks there.

00:40:27.475 --> 00:40:29.655
The rep group, we've got
a pretty solid group.

00:40:29.705 --> 00:40:30.695
Everybody.

00:40:32.595 --> 00:40:36.665
It's not just a bunch of salesmen,
and I'm proud to say that I was

00:40:36.665 --> 00:40:40.235
lucky when I started with Korth,
I didn't know what to expect and,

00:40:40.235 --> 00:40:45.125
um, they had basically everything I
was using already, so I didn't have

00:40:45.135 --> 00:40:50.515
to sell myself short on anything,
everything that the, all the lines we

00:40:50.525 --> 00:40:51.745
had and stuff I had at home already.

00:40:52.245 --> 00:40:52.815
Perfect.

00:40:53.145 --> 00:40:55.455
I've been diehard
loophole for a long time.

00:40:55.575 --> 00:40:55.815
Yeah.

00:40:55.935 --> 00:40:59.175
When I graduated high school, I bought
myself Webby Mark five, and I put a

00:40:59.175 --> 00:41:02.605
loophole on it, , and then when I got
done with university, I went and bought

00:41:02.605 --> 00:41:05.025
myself a high-end European scope.

00:41:05.325 --> 00:41:05.655
Okay.

00:41:05.975 --> 00:41:07.855
Wouldn't hold zero really?

00:41:07.885 --> 00:41:11.275
When I was guiding my particular
one, I'd have to check my rifles

00:41:11.275 --> 00:41:12.450
with new clients all the time.

00:41:13.385 --> 00:41:14.345
Went back to loophole.

00:41:14.345 --> 00:41:15.575
Never had that happen.

00:41:15.905 --> 00:41:16.625
Interesting.

00:41:17.530 --> 00:41:20.600
They're man made, anything can happen.

00:41:20.600 --> 00:41:20.940
Sure.

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:21.870
They have a warranty.

00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:23.410
We can fix them right in Okotoks.

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.219
Generally speaking, they'll
spend more time with Canada

00:41:26.220 --> 00:41:27.420
Post than they'll spend with us.

00:41:27.660 --> 00:41:28.130
Really?

00:41:28.200 --> 00:41:30.340
And I've never had one lose zero.

00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:33.460
On one African hunt, I had an adjustment.

00:41:33.460 --> 00:41:36.509
I had to make some adjustments
on my gun and the O ring.

00:41:36.890 --> 00:41:38.450
The seal on the adjustment came out.

00:41:38.980 --> 00:41:40.060
Didn't affect performance.

00:41:40.160 --> 00:41:40.580
Sure.

00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:43.600
If, if hunting coastal Alaska
might be a different thing, but.

00:41:43.730 --> 00:41:44.330
It'd be an issue.

00:41:44.380 --> 00:41:48.190
I was hunting Matezi in
Zimbabwe and it was dry.

00:41:48.319 --> 00:41:48.619
Yeah.

00:41:48.630 --> 00:41:49.320
It wasn't an issue.

00:41:49.330 --> 00:41:49.920
Sent it back,

00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:51.810
Travis Bader: had it back in a week.

00:41:52.110 --> 00:41:54.140
Well, don't you guys have a
range in your basement as well?

00:41:54.529 --> 00:41:55.259
Yeah, we have a

00:41:55.279 --> 00:41:58.560
Matt Siemens: 425 yard pistol
base and 200 yard rifle base.

00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:05.010
So we can go down there and check
zeros and, uh, We had a guy come

00:42:05.010 --> 00:42:06.850
in once, uh, send a scope back.

00:42:07.180 --> 00:42:11.890
Wouldn't hold zero and they
had, he's on a 378 Weatherby.

00:42:12.610 --> 00:42:14.720
So the tech came to me and this
is when I was working there.

00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:16.020
He goes, Hey, what's the
biggest gun you have at home?

00:42:16.020 --> 00:42:16.729
He put a scope on.

00:42:16.730 --> 00:42:18.140
I got a 500 A square.

00:42:18.150 --> 00:42:18.589
We'll bring it in.

00:42:18.589 --> 00:42:19.110
We got to test it.

00:42:20.470 --> 00:42:25.029
Well, I shot literally three,
three holes touching with it.

00:42:25.030 --> 00:42:26.050
The scope held zero.

00:42:26.390 --> 00:42:27.540
It's just the guy was afraid of his gun.

00:42:27.585 --> 00:42:27.645
Mm.

00:42:28.865 --> 00:42:29.945
Travis Bader: How often do you find that?

00:42:30.555 --> 00:42:31.245
Matt Siemens: Most of the time.

00:42:31.335 --> 00:42:31.725
Really?

00:42:31.905 --> 00:42:32.205
Yeah.

00:42:32.235 --> 00:42:37.365
The, the, this stat goes back a few
years, but I believe it was loophole made

00:42:37.365 --> 00:42:42.015
more scopes in three months than all the
European companies did in a year combined.

00:42:42.075 --> 00:42:43.035
Holy crow.

00:42:43.095 --> 00:42:46.275
Out of those, out of those
scopes, did I say scopes and guns?

00:42:46.335 --> 00:42:47.085
Any scopes?

00:42:47.145 --> 00:42:47.385
Yeah.

00:42:47.775 --> 00:42:51.735
Out of those scopes, 3%
would come back for warranty.

00:42:51.915 --> 00:42:52.245
Okay.

00:42:52.485 --> 00:42:56.175
Outta that 3%, one third of
1% was actually defective.

00:42:56.175 --> 00:42:56.920
The rest was user error.

00:42:58.755 --> 00:43:02.065
Travis Bader: And it was kind
of like websites or technology

00:43:02.105 --> 00:43:03.325
versus like, it's not working.

00:43:03.395 --> 00:43:05.795
And so the person, have
you reset your computer?

00:43:06.085 --> 00:43:06.915
Oh, it works now.

00:43:06.955 --> 00:43:07.345
Okay.

00:43:07.525 --> 00:43:09.445
Or are you clicking on the right thing?

00:43:09.455 --> 00:43:09.755
Right.

00:43:09.794 --> 00:43:10.425
Oh, okay.

00:43:10.425 --> 00:43:13.514
So there's gotta be a heavy
education piece in there as well.

00:43:13.525 --> 00:43:14.124
We'd have people

00:43:14.124 --> 00:43:14.815
Matt Siemens: send them back.

00:43:14.815 --> 00:43:17.535
I put my scope in the safe and
now I take it out, it's reset

00:43:17.535 --> 00:43:18.945
itself to factory defaults.

00:43:19.395 --> 00:43:19.695
Oh yeah.

00:43:19.695 --> 00:43:20.085
Travis Bader: That's.

00:43:20.095 --> 00:43:20.865
It doesn't do that.

00:43:20.875 --> 00:43:20.995
Like.

00:43:21.015 --> 00:43:21.765
Totally, totally

00:43:21.765 --> 00:43:22.155
Matt Siemens: happens.

00:43:22.185 --> 00:43:24.215
It's, people's a betting issue.

00:43:24.595 --> 00:43:26.584
The biggest thing is a lot of
people think all these rifles

00:43:26.584 --> 00:43:27.784
we're shooting are square.

00:43:28.615 --> 00:43:30.425
But like you have all
these different accesses.

00:43:30.425 --> 00:43:33.115
So you have the line of the
board to the line of the action.

00:43:33.655 --> 00:43:35.985
And is it threaded straight?

00:43:36.075 --> 00:43:37.295
Is the barrel threaded straight?

00:43:37.295 --> 00:43:38.425
The action threaded straight?

00:43:38.965 --> 00:43:43.605
I used to have some long 648 screws,
probably six, eight inches long.

00:43:43.745 --> 00:43:44.065
Okay.

00:43:44.154 --> 00:43:47.435
I used to screw them into the action
holes and look, look back and show people.

00:43:47.765 --> 00:43:49.175
And they, they didn't line up.

00:43:49.195 --> 00:43:53.015
They were close, but you don't see it
when it's short, but when you have them

00:43:53.015 --> 00:43:55.645
long, you could see how far they were out.

00:43:55.825 --> 00:43:56.325
Travis Bader: Totally.

00:43:56.455 --> 00:43:58.425
Oh, that's an interesting, I've
never thought about doing that.

00:43:58.465 --> 00:43:58.735
Yeah,

00:43:58.805 --> 00:44:00.595
Matt Siemens: it's, we live
in a world of tolerance.

00:44:00.595 --> 00:44:06.644
There's not absolutes and making
a base square is easy, but the

00:44:06.644 --> 00:44:10.395
first thing that gets blamed is
the optic and it's the ammunition.

00:44:11.150 --> 00:44:14.230
And it's never the nut behind the
trigger, which is usually the problem.

00:44:14.690 --> 00:44:15.090
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:44:15.130 --> 00:44:20.209
You know, I, I remember there is,
so prior to being, uh, silver core

00:44:20.209 --> 00:44:23.810
outdoors was silver core training and
it was silver core gunworks and would

00:44:23.810 --> 00:44:29.459
do firearms repair and maintenance for
the general public, as well as for, uh,

00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:34.090
different law enforcement groups who do
extended work, um, armor car companies.

00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:38.960
There's one government group that,
um, we're doing all of their, their

00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:40.490
handguns, all of their pistols.

00:44:40.570 --> 00:44:45.959
And, um, I would get called on down to
where they're training on a training

00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:47.429
day with a bunch of fresh recruits.

00:44:47.429 --> 00:44:50.880
And they like the gun's not working
and you got to get this fixed.

00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:52.129
You got to get it right for us.

00:44:52.130 --> 00:44:54.060
And I said, well.

00:44:54.425 --> 00:44:56.275
Have you, and this would
be the instructors, right?

00:44:56.495 --> 00:44:57.445
Well, have you shot it?

00:44:57.785 --> 00:45:00.055
Well, no, but the student,
it was all over the place.

00:45:00.425 --> 00:45:04.414
And they said, and so,
okay, well, let me see.

00:45:04.415 --> 00:45:05.684
And then they got the whole class.

00:45:05.684 --> 00:45:07.084
They're watching me and the instructors.

00:45:07.085 --> 00:45:11.514
They're watching me and I take
it out and they run the target

00:45:11.555 --> 00:45:12.974
all the way to the end for me.

00:45:13.305 --> 00:45:14.705
This is how you got to test your accuracy.

00:45:14.705 --> 00:45:15.735
I'm like, okay, here we go.

00:45:15.735 --> 00:45:15.915
Right.

00:45:15.915 --> 00:45:17.485
I better, better make sure I do my part.

00:45:17.485 --> 00:45:20.495
Everybody here is watching all the
bullets go exactly where they're

00:45:20.495 --> 00:45:21.945
supposed to go and it comes back.

00:45:21.985 --> 00:45:22.775
Oh, what'd you do?

00:45:22.865 --> 00:45:24.305
I'm like, Oh, you know,
in front of everyone.

00:45:24.930 --> 00:45:26.360
Oh, I made a few tweaks on it.

00:45:26.380 --> 00:45:27.800
It shouldn't be a problem anymore.

00:45:28.020 --> 00:45:32.200
And then separately aside with the
instructor, next time you call up,

00:45:32.570 --> 00:45:35.739
make sure you get a second person
to take some shots on it, and that

00:45:35.740 --> 00:45:39.120
should be the number one thing I would
think that any, any company would say.

00:45:39.680 --> 00:45:40.980
It wasn't performing for you.

00:45:41.010 --> 00:45:43.570
Did you give it to somebody else
who, you know, to be proficient

00:45:43.720 --> 00:45:45.610
that it wasn't performing for?

00:45:45.980 --> 00:45:47.470
Matt Siemens: I always tell
people, if you keep your eyes

00:45:47.470 --> 00:45:48.830
open, your accuracy improves too.

00:45:50.609 --> 00:45:53.830
There was another case when I was out of
the office in Okotoks, a tech said, Hey,

00:45:53.870 --> 00:45:56.519
I got to test some scopes for an agency.

00:45:57.739 --> 00:46:02.740
So we had two Kimber rifles at that point,
the 308, I'm going to use police tactic.

00:46:02.740 --> 00:46:05.620
I can't remember exactly what your model
it was, but there were no one shooters.

00:46:06.310 --> 00:46:07.350
So we had them all in rings.

00:46:07.350 --> 00:46:10.310
We went up to the Rosebud range and
we sat a hundred yards and we shot

00:46:10.310 --> 00:46:13.140
groups and just Cut them out and attach
them to the scope and sent them back.

00:46:13.980 --> 00:46:17.390
Then the agency contacted him wanting
to know what rests we were using,

00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:20.410
because they wanted to buy the same
so they could test it themselves.

00:46:21.020 --> 00:46:23.180
And he went back, no, no,
they were shot off sandbags.

00:46:23.230 --> 00:46:24.709
They'll burn, I was a burner at the time.

00:46:24.710 --> 00:46:25.980
It was a burner up in myself.

00:46:26.870 --> 00:46:28.939
We just shot him off sandbags
and they couldn't believe it.

00:46:30.799 --> 00:46:32.540
And this is ERT stuff.

00:46:33.070 --> 00:46:33.390
Yeah.

00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:37.240
There's a lot of qualified ERT
people out there, but there's.

00:46:38.265 --> 00:46:40.355
Travis Bader: Sometimes ego
gets in the way too, right?

00:46:40.365 --> 00:46:41.165
Something's not going

00:46:41.165 --> 00:46:41.385
Matt Siemens: right.

00:46:41.385 --> 00:46:42.095
Can't be me.

00:46:42.245 --> 00:46:44.065
Back to A type personalities, right?

00:46:44.225 --> 00:46:44.405
Well,

00:46:44.405 --> 00:46:44.945
Travis Bader: that's it.

00:46:44.945 --> 00:46:49.484
You know, we are a group of
individuals, people who find solace

00:46:49.485 --> 00:46:53.334
in the outdoors typically don't want
to be surrounding themselves with a

00:46:53.334 --> 00:46:55.005
whole bunch of other people, right?

00:46:55.045 --> 00:46:55.065
Yeah.

00:46:55.394 --> 00:46:56.974
Um, people who want to.

00:46:57.295 --> 00:47:02.135
Uh, hunt or fish, or they're typically
people who are self sufficient

00:47:02.135 --> 00:47:05.335
and they have their way of doing
things as work for them in the past.

00:47:05.675 --> 00:47:09.245
Uh, even just in the firearms
community, there are some social

00:47:09.285 --> 00:47:12.635
aspects to that, but even in there,
there's a lot of aid type, uh,

00:47:12.704 --> 00:47:16.494
individualistic type, uh, personalities,
and I think that's probably.

00:47:17.090 --> 00:47:21.650
The number one thing that the, uh, hunting
community and the firearms community

00:47:22.110 --> 00:47:27.040
has to recognize and square themselves
with if they want to all work together.

00:47:27.270 --> 00:47:27.570
Yeah.

00:47:27.770 --> 00:47:30.420
Matt Siemens: I find a lot of the
old wives tales from 40 years ago,

00:47:30.420 --> 00:47:34.309
aren't dying or even 50 or 60 years
ago, like which ones, uh, how a

00:47:34.309 --> 00:47:36.230
bullet flies through the air and, and.

00:47:36.995 --> 00:47:39.685
A scope gathering light,
nothing gathers light.

00:47:39.735 --> 00:47:40.875
It transmits light.

00:47:40.875 --> 00:47:42.015
It doesn't gather light.

00:47:42.085 --> 00:47:42.365
Tell me

00:47:42.365 --> 00:47:42.965
Travis Bader: about that.

00:47:44.465 --> 00:47:46.815
Matt Siemens: Well, people think it's
gathers light because we, when you

00:47:46.815 --> 00:47:50.085
look through the scope, if you're
low light situation, like last

00:47:50.085 --> 00:47:52.635
light, you're out and you look and
it looks brighter through your scope.

00:47:52.674 --> 00:47:54.305
Well, now it's focused to your eye.

00:47:54.574 --> 00:47:54.954
Right.

00:47:54.984 --> 00:47:56.764
And it's coming right back to your pupil.

00:47:57.264 --> 00:47:59.335
Because, well, I need a bigger lens.

00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:01.990
We'll gather, gather more light.

00:48:01.990 --> 00:48:04.960
No, your erector system inside
the scopes the same size,

00:48:05.370 --> 00:48:06.910
the transmission is the same.

00:48:07.130 --> 00:48:09.700
It will affect your exit pupil, right?

00:48:09.810 --> 00:48:13.359
But a lot of that times when you get
to our age, our eyes, our pupils aren't

00:48:13.359 --> 00:48:14.940
expanding that much anymore, anymore.

00:48:15.650 --> 00:48:16.720
Doesn't help anything.

00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:17.320
Right.

00:48:17.350 --> 00:48:18.000
Within reason.

00:48:18.030 --> 00:48:21.040
There's always, some of the
higher power scopes are huge.

00:48:21.040 --> 00:48:24.180
Like when I was culling in,
in New Zealand, I had a three

00:48:24.180 --> 00:48:25.230
and a half, 10 on my rifle.

00:48:25.230 --> 00:48:28.340
I was doing quite good, but I
went back to next season and

00:48:28.340 --> 00:48:29.630
I was going to be the bad guy.

00:48:29.850 --> 00:48:31.690
I was, I was going to rack up numbers.

00:48:31.690 --> 00:48:33.859
I put a six and a half,
a 20 on my, on my gun.

00:48:34.775 --> 00:48:39.305
Target dot, and I had it dialed,
cranked it up to 20 power and

00:48:39.305 --> 00:48:40.445
just made a fool of myself.

00:48:42.085 --> 00:48:44.125
Cause early morning you
couldn't, it wasn't a knife,

00:48:44.785 --> 00:48:46.145
exit people wasn't big enough.

00:48:46.174 --> 00:48:46.494
Right.

00:48:46.705 --> 00:48:49.624
Then you feel the view was so small,
you're trying to find these goats running.

00:48:49.625 --> 00:48:52.704
And then I ended up cranking it
back down to 10 and left it there.

00:48:52.940 --> 00:48:53.930
I've got my numbers back up.

00:48:53.980 --> 00:48:56.750
Travis Bader: That's usually,
it's amazing how that works.

00:48:56.770 --> 00:48:57.130
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

00:48:57.130 --> 00:48:59.670
It's would have been cheaper keeping it.

00:48:59.670 --> 00:48:59.810
Right.

00:49:00.450 --> 00:49:03.380
But it's one of the things that it's
all this stuff, like the, my culling

00:49:03.380 --> 00:49:07.780
in the South Pacific really taught me
a lot old, like testing his old wives,

00:49:07.780 --> 00:49:09.330
tails with different bullets and stuff.

00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:11.749
Cause you go down and you're
shooting quantities, animals.

00:49:13.155 --> 00:49:17.725
You could shoot in a day, what you
couldn't shoot in several lifetimes here.

00:49:18.125 --> 00:49:18.455
Really?

00:49:18.475 --> 00:49:21.825
And so with different bullets
and stuff, it really taught me

00:49:21.825 --> 00:49:23.035
what worked and what didn't.

00:49:24.185 --> 00:49:27.545
Travis Bader: So this, the whole
culling aspect, they take a look,

00:49:27.545 --> 00:49:29.275
it's usually with invasive species.

00:49:29.625 --> 00:49:33.265
And they say they're overrunning,
it's going to cause damage to the

00:49:33.265 --> 00:49:37.675
environment and to the other species in
here, carrying capacities diminished.

00:49:37.775 --> 00:49:37.985
Yeah.

00:49:38.775 --> 00:49:45.305
Now we had a, um, a cull here over in BC,
uh, one of the local little islands here.

00:49:45.695 --> 00:49:47.425
And they will bring people in.

00:49:47.905 --> 00:49:52.145
You were going to New Zealand and these
guys were New Zealand fellows that were

00:49:52.145 --> 00:49:54.175
coming over here, coming over here.

00:49:54.365 --> 00:49:57.245
Matt Siemens: I was, I helped him out
with that little bit in the beginning

00:49:57.425 --> 00:50:03.214
as the loophole horny rep, I tried
talking to them and they wouldn't listen.

00:50:03.835 --> 00:50:07.195
And their second purchase was more
geared to what I, what I told.

00:50:07.495 --> 00:50:08.615
But I think the whole thing was wrong.

00:50:08.825 --> 00:50:13.325
You're paying a company, come in,
come in here, kill deer when you

00:50:13.325 --> 00:50:14.575
and I would have done it for free.

00:50:14.915 --> 00:50:16.045
You could have had a draw.

00:50:16.314 --> 00:50:16.614
Sure.

00:50:16.615 --> 00:50:16.854
Yeah.

00:50:16.854 --> 00:50:17.804
It's a national park.

00:50:17.805 --> 00:50:18.075
Okay.

00:50:18.075 --> 00:50:19.485
We'll have it a draw basis.

00:50:19.804 --> 00:50:23.405
When I lived in Detroit, we used to, we
always talked about guarding piles of corn

00:50:24.105 --> 00:50:26.075
in the Metro parks in downtown Detroit.

00:50:26.295 --> 00:50:26.545
Okay.

00:50:26.575 --> 00:50:29.385
They would stack corn up and
get all the deer coming in.

00:50:30.035 --> 00:50:34.345
And then in middle of winter,
we would guard the pile of corn.

00:50:35.065 --> 00:50:35.815
And shoot any deer.

00:50:35.815 --> 00:50:43.615
I tried to eat it and all, all the, all
the meat went right back to It was all

00:50:43.615 --> 00:50:45.375
processed through Whitetails Unlimited.

00:50:45.435 --> 00:50:45.685
Yeah.

00:50:46.585 --> 00:50:49.775
But I mean, that wasn't invasive,
but it was just the Metro parks, you

00:50:49.775 --> 00:50:50.835
couldn't control it any other way.

00:50:50.885 --> 00:50:52.765
You can't, you couldn't
open it up in the cities.

00:50:53.015 --> 00:50:53.395
Right.

00:50:53.445 --> 00:50:57.285
I feel if we did a call like
that in a metropolitan area in

00:50:57.285 --> 00:50:58.744
Canada, there'd be such outcry.

00:50:59.655 --> 00:51:01.714
Down there, I'm not sure
if they're still doing it.

00:51:01.715 --> 00:51:03.795
This goes back 20 some years now.

00:51:04.260 --> 00:51:06.020
But it was always, it
was always interesting.

00:51:06.330 --> 00:51:07.750
And then that was muzzleloader only.

00:51:08.550 --> 00:51:12.370
And we would try different bullets
and that's a, my terminal ballistics

00:51:12.370 --> 00:51:17.070
fascination is always, I'd go
to New Zealand, I'd have my, so

00:51:17.070 --> 00:51:19.440
much of my regular go to bullet.

00:51:19.979 --> 00:51:22.680
And I try a few new ones that were on
the market and see how they worked.

00:51:23.229 --> 00:51:24.459
And when you can try.

00:51:25.140 --> 00:51:27.020
A bullet on 50 different animals in a day.

00:51:27.570 --> 00:51:32.510
It's not, it's a much broader
snapshot than just that focus.

00:51:32.540 --> 00:51:33.879
Well, you tried it once, it didn't work.

00:51:33.879 --> 00:51:38.979
It didn't, maybe that was the one off, but
came pretty apparent what worked and what

00:51:38.980 --> 00:51:39.390
Travis Bader: didn't.

00:51:40.030 --> 00:51:40.970
What do you find works for you?

00:51:42.389 --> 00:51:43.220
Most of my killing

00:51:43.220 --> 00:51:45.299
Matt Siemens: bullet was
the Hornady interlock, even

00:51:45.299 --> 00:51:46.400
before I worked for Hornady.

00:51:46.645 --> 00:51:47.055
Okay.

00:51:47.195 --> 00:51:49.735
And it was performed very good.

00:51:49.875 --> 00:51:50.225
Yeah.

00:51:50.365 --> 00:51:53.025
And they were economical when you're
shooting that kind of volumes.

00:51:53.115 --> 00:51:53.615
Hmm.

00:51:54.205 --> 00:51:54.425
Yeah.

00:51:54.555 --> 00:51:56.305
I'm talking hundreds
of rounds a day, right?

00:51:56.305 --> 00:52:00.135
Like it's, and it made a difference
if you were shooting some of the stuff

00:52:00.135 --> 00:52:01.684
that was four or five times the price.

00:52:02.024 --> 00:52:04.924
And when we experimented with
them and I found the best bang

00:52:04.924 --> 00:52:06.625
for the buck was that Hornady

00:52:06.625 --> 00:52:06.974
Travis Bader: Interlock.

00:52:06.975 --> 00:52:07.665
Interesting.

00:52:08.515 --> 00:52:13.285
So what I heard back from the, the
local culling that was over here, um,

00:52:14.380 --> 00:52:16.900
They said, well, why are you bringing
people in from New Zealand to do this?

00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:19.790
I said, well, they're the ones with
the expertise and they're going to be

00:52:19.790 --> 00:52:22.470
shooting from helicopters and they're
going to blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:24.220
But he, a mighty flies helicopter.

00:52:24.220 --> 00:52:27.870
He's like, you know, we train the New
Zealanders how to shoot from helicopters.

00:52:27.870 --> 00:52:30.220
I, uh, Canadians know how to do this.

00:52:30.675 --> 00:52:32.165
Matt Siemens: I've shot from
helicopter in New Zealand.

00:52:32.285 --> 00:52:32.605
Yeah.

00:52:32.765 --> 00:52:34.705
I'm a hundred percent
success rate in helicopter.

00:52:35.015 --> 00:52:35.425
Okay.

00:52:35.505 --> 00:52:36.385
Never missed a shot.

00:52:37.005 --> 00:52:37.355
Okay.

00:52:38.155 --> 00:52:39.005
I've only taken one.

00:52:39.745 --> 00:52:39.865
That

00:52:39.865 --> 00:52:41.235
Travis Bader: was going
to be my next question.

00:52:42.525 --> 00:52:43.565
That was going to be my next question.

00:52:43.565 --> 00:52:46.575
Cause that'd be a pretty darn impressive
shooting from a moving helicopter.

00:52:46.605 --> 00:52:46.784
It

00:52:46.784 --> 00:52:47.875
Matt Siemens: was, um.

00:52:48.620 --> 00:52:53.120
We were, we were culling tar
and, uh, it ran into the bullet.

00:52:53.480 --> 00:52:53.910
Okay.

00:52:53.950 --> 00:52:59.640
Like it, it, it's, I act like it was all
me, but it's, do you want to try again?

00:52:59.650 --> 00:52:59.930
Nope.

00:52:59.960 --> 00:53:00.460
I'm fine.

00:53:00.460 --> 00:53:01.259
Yeah.

00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:01.660
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:53:02.319 --> 00:53:03.120
Just rest of

00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:04.150
Matt Siemens: my laurels here.

00:53:04.220 --> 00:53:04.810
No, it was.

00:53:05.915 --> 00:53:08.775
It was a lucky shot, but I mean, I
always tell people I'm a hundred percent

00:53:08.775 --> 00:53:12.605
from helicopter, which isn't a lie, but
that's another one of those stats things.

00:53:12.605 --> 00:53:12.855
Right.

00:53:12.885 --> 00:53:14.605
Like statistically, I'm not telling them.

00:53:14.765 --> 00:53:17.875
I'm just physically, I'm telling
the truth, but it's, it's a

00:53:17.935 --> 00:53:19.985
very, very small cross section.

00:53:20.585 --> 00:53:24.435
Travis Bader: Well, I heard there
is no, um, No Canadians, uh, put

00:53:24.435 --> 00:53:26.355
in for the, uh, for the call.

00:53:27.085 --> 00:53:29.255
I don't know if that's true or
not, or if that was just something

00:53:29.255 --> 00:53:31.385
that was, uh, said afterwards, but.

00:53:31.395 --> 00:53:32.264
I'd never, I'd never

00:53:32.265 --> 00:53:33.425
Matt Siemens: heard it
being offered to anybody.

00:53:33.725 --> 00:53:34.724
Travis Bader: I never did either.

00:53:34.734 --> 00:53:35.324
Because when

00:53:35.324 --> 00:53:37.064
Matt Siemens: I, when we were
involved with it, it was Parks

00:53:37.065 --> 00:53:38.575
Canada trying to do it themselves.

00:53:40.055 --> 00:53:40.525
Travis Bader: Gotcha.

00:53:41.774 --> 00:53:42.224
Yeah.

00:53:42.305 --> 00:53:43.545
Interesting anyways.

00:53:43.584 --> 00:53:45.995
I mean, you know, they've
got a reason they've got a.

00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:48.120
They've gone through, they've
looked at the science.

00:53:48.120 --> 00:53:50.660
They've looked at why they need
to do this, but the next step

00:53:51.170 --> 00:53:52.740
seemed a little ridiculous.

00:53:52.740 --> 00:53:54.980
The amount of money
that's spent in the, uh.

00:53:55.260 --> 00:53:55.710
Didn't it work

00:53:55.710 --> 00:53:57.420
Matt Siemens: out like 83, 000 a deer?

00:53:57.470 --> 00:53:57.529
I

00:53:57.529 --> 00:53:58.490
Travis Bader: think it
was something like that.

00:53:58.520 --> 00:53:59.310
It's just brutal.

00:53:59.620 --> 00:54:00.220
Yeah.

00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:04.709
I don't understand that,
but, um, interesting.

00:54:04.899 --> 00:54:08.010
Matt Siemens: I hunted on the, on
the islands there a couple of years

00:54:08.010 --> 00:54:10.850
back and we weren't welcome there.

00:54:11.250 --> 00:54:14.130
No, by most of the people, it was
clear they didn't want us there.

00:54:14.130 --> 00:54:18.850
A few, a few guys were fine, but so
now they have the problem of the deer.

00:54:20.250 --> 00:54:22.830
It's everybody wants
their cake and eat it too.

00:54:22.830 --> 00:54:23.120
Right?

00:54:23.969 --> 00:54:24.119
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:54:24.120 --> 00:54:27.830
Well, I mean, they're, they're cute and
they, they're little guys and they're,

00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:33.010
they're like little pets and they come
by all the time, but you can't stick

00:54:33.120 --> 00:54:36.370
your finger into the bowl of water
and not expect to see some ripples.

00:54:36.690 --> 00:54:39.220
There's going to be a
consequence one way or the other.

00:54:39.930 --> 00:54:43.270
And I guess we come to a
point where you either say.

00:54:43.650 --> 00:54:44.090
Okay.

00:54:44.090 --> 00:54:47.710
The consequence is, is the
environment's changed completely,

00:54:48.220 --> 00:54:53.400
or you get in there and you try and
make some changes to, to correct

00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:54.660
some of the mistakes that were made.

00:54:54.860 --> 00:54:55.140
Well, it's a

00:54:55.140 --> 00:54:59.799
Matt Siemens: textbook example of how
managing herds and hunting can help not

00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:03.810
only the herd, but the, but the landscape
and the carrying capacity of the land.

00:55:04.030 --> 00:55:04.430
Mm hmm.

00:55:04.430 --> 00:55:05.220
Keep it healthy.

00:55:05.350 --> 00:55:05.860
Mm hmm.

00:55:06.200 --> 00:55:09.590
And people have to realize that people,
biggest thing that aunties don't

00:55:09.590 --> 00:55:11.390
understand are animal rights people.

00:55:11.910 --> 00:55:13.100
Well, you're killing an animal.

00:55:13.379 --> 00:55:13.519
Yeah.

00:55:13.520 --> 00:55:15.100
You're not managing for an individual.

00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:17.280
You're managing for the herd long term.

00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:17.940
Mm hmm.

00:55:17.970 --> 00:55:23.499
And you have to give some stuff
up for it to be viable long term.

00:55:23.810 --> 00:55:25.240
Travis Bader: Yeah, because
the consequence otherwise is

00:55:25.240 --> 00:55:26.700
they'll, they starved to death.

00:55:26.720 --> 00:55:27.010
Yeah.

00:55:27.350 --> 00:55:29.270
Matt Siemens: Disease comes
in, wipes them out and.

00:55:29.890 --> 00:55:30.320
Right.

00:55:30.430 --> 00:55:34.210
You take a look, what's happening in
the prairies and in the States with CWD

00:55:34.210 --> 00:55:38.729
now is, and that was from supposedly
coming from the deer farming, crowded

00:55:38.729 --> 00:55:41.430
pens and it disease wipe stuff out.

00:55:41.469 --> 00:55:41.989
Is that where it

00:55:41.990 --> 00:55:42.510
Travis Bader: came from?

00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:44.220
That's the story I heard.

00:55:44.310 --> 00:55:47.650
CWD, chronic wasting disease for anyone
who's listening, who doesn't quite.

00:55:48.330 --> 00:55:51.390
Um, and that's, I think
it's in Alberta now.

00:55:52.740 --> 00:55:54.839
Any reported cases in British Columbia?

00:55:55.375 --> 00:55:56.685
Not that I'm aware of.

00:55:57.335 --> 00:55:58.945
I don't think there is yet.

00:55:58.955 --> 00:55:59.715
Do you think it's coming?

00:56:03.795 --> 00:56:04.355
Matt Siemens: I don't know.

00:56:04.355 --> 00:56:05.245
I sure hope not.

00:56:07.500 --> 00:56:13.680
Travis Bader: Yeah, that's, um, just,
it's decimating populations and I, I

00:56:13.680 --> 00:56:17.510
never, I never heard about where they
were speculating where he came from.

00:56:17.510 --> 00:56:17.789
So that's

00:56:17.789 --> 00:56:18.249
Matt Siemens: interesting.

00:56:18.260 --> 00:56:23.969
I hunted Alberta this fall for antelope
and in what was once a prime mule deer

00:56:24.010 --> 00:56:26.259
area, there wasn't a mule deer left.

00:56:26.860 --> 00:56:27.680
They wiped them out.

00:56:27.890 --> 00:56:30.849
Not that they purposely
culled them all out.

00:56:30.850 --> 00:56:31.800
It's my understanding.

00:56:32.190 --> 00:56:33.590
Just so the disease wouldn't spread.

00:56:33.600 --> 00:56:35.500
Now that what comes
back should be healthy.

00:56:36.695 --> 00:56:37.805
But you have to manage that too.

00:56:37.805 --> 00:56:41.625
I know every deer you shoot in Alberta,
when, once I've shot, you submit a head

00:56:41.635 --> 00:56:45.695
for testing and then if it comes back
positive, they give you another tag

00:56:46.225 --> 00:56:48.145
and they don't recommend eating it.

00:56:48.685 --> 00:56:51.404
They say it can't jump to the human,
but you don't want to be that.

00:56:52.510 --> 00:56:53.350
Travis Bader: Case number one.

00:56:53.470 --> 00:56:54.910
Didn't realize they gave another tag.

00:56:54.910 --> 00:56:55.570
I thought you just, maybe that.

00:56:55.570 --> 00:56:55.750
Maybe

00:56:55.750 --> 00:56:58.270
Matt Siemens: that stopped, but
I know at first it was guys I was

00:56:58.270 --> 00:57:01.210
hunting with when I lived there
were getting replacement tags.

00:57:02.060 --> 00:57:06.560
One year we we got, you got drawn and
you go buy your tag and you get two tags.

00:57:06.560 --> 00:57:07.010
Next year.

00:57:07.040 --> 00:57:08.000
Next year it's three.

00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:09.710
I heard one year being six.

00:57:09.860 --> 00:57:10.850
They're trying to get rid of them.

00:57:11.560 --> 00:57:13.690
They're quite aggressive
on managing it there.

00:57:14.910 --> 00:57:17.400
Travis Bader: So I gotta ask
right now, shot show's on.

00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:19.080
How did you manage to get outta that one?

00:57:19.110 --> 00:57:21.870
Like for me, I have a hard time at shot.

00:57:22.520 --> 00:57:25.740
It is too many people,
too busy, too much stuff.

00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:31.430
I'd rather be in the ocean, up a mountain,
in the woods, shot's a tough place for me.

00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:31.850
Yeah.

00:57:31.850 --> 00:57:32.240
Shot

00:57:32.240 --> 00:57:33.230
Matt Siemens: opens tomorrow.

00:57:33.410 --> 00:57:37.000
It is to go and work.

00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:41.789
It is one thing to go and visit it as a
consumer, or I guess it's not consumers

00:57:41.799 --> 00:57:44.640
and industry related, but to go there
as a guest is a different thing.

00:57:45.770 --> 00:57:48.580
It was lots of fun the
first couple of years.

00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:52.860
If I had to be there, I'd be there,
put my best foot forward, but it is.

00:57:53.510 --> 00:57:58.050
It is four days of
grinding it out nonstop.

00:57:58.080 --> 00:58:02.309
You can barely walk while halls
are so full, thousands of people,

00:58:02.349 --> 00:58:03.689
tens of thousands of people.

00:58:04.759 --> 00:58:08.170
And I'm just not a crowd person, but
no, I, it's half the crews there.

00:58:08.180 --> 00:58:09.020
I'll be there next year.

00:58:09.209 --> 00:58:09.659
Okay.

00:58:09.720 --> 00:58:13.990
And it's, it's a phenomenal place.

00:58:13.990 --> 00:58:16.880
Like you realize how small
the Canadian market really is

00:58:16.890 --> 00:58:18.040
Travis Bader: when you walk through Shaw.

00:58:18.130 --> 00:58:21.420
I got to wonder why they even
care, even listen to us, honestly.

00:58:21.420 --> 00:58:23.390
I mean, it's, we are so small.

00:58:23.950 --> 00:58:24.319
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

00:58:24.319 --> 00:58:24.709
We're.

00:58:25.070 --> 00:58:28.490
If anywhere from three to
7%, depends who you talk

00:58:28.490 --> 00:58:28.700
Travis Bader: to.

00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:32.000
And we make their life difficult
by having all these weird

00:58:32.020 --> 00:58:34.310
import export laws and yeah.

00:58:34.410 --> 00:58:34.780
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

00:58:34.780 --> 00:58:36.159
And magazine restrictions.

00:58:36.160 --> 00:58:39.800
And now that, yeah, it's just brutal.

00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:44.330
You, they can't just ship a gun up
by changing, throwing a mag out.

00:58:44.339 --> 00:58:48.700
They got to do so many, a lot of a
hundred or whatever, and it just changes

00:58:48.710 --> 00:58:49.070
Travis Bader: things.

00:58:49.070 --> 00:58:52.970
And have you been keeping up on the,
uh, the newer magazine laws that

00:58:52.990 --> 00:58:54.300
they're talking about here in Canada?

00:58:57.045 --> 00:58:58.325
Matt Siemens: I know
enough to be dangerous.

00:58:58.415 --> 00:59:00.865
Um, I've been trying to keep up with it.

00:59:00.875 --> 00:59:04.825
What's actually, once it passes, I
will, I will educate myself a hundred

00:59:04.825 --> 00:59:08.094
percent on it, but there's so much
speculation out there and stuff I want it.

00:59:08.095 --> 00:59:09.385
I don't want to get myself confused.

00:59:09.985 --> 00:59:14.075
I've lived in enough places and
hunted enough places that naturally

00:59:14.075 --> 00:59:15.165
I'm getting stuff mixed up.

00:59:15.194 --> 00:59:16.565
Well, where was this?

00:59:16.565 --> 00:59:20.325
How do I, just because I've lived in
different places and things have changed.

00:59:22.195 --> 00:59:25.015
Travis Bader: From what I understand,
they're looking at, uh, pinned

00:59:25.065 --> 00:59:27.455
magazines and magazine capacities and.

00:59:28.530 --> 00:59:32.740
They say they keep bringing in
new regulations and legislation

00:59:32.740 --> 00:59:34.850
as to the number of rounds that
you can have in a magazine.

00:59:34.850 --> 00:59:37.829
And well, if a restricted firearm,
you can have 10, but if it's a

00:59:37.829 --> 00:59:40.690
non restricted center fire, semi
auto, you can only have five.

00:59:40.740 --> 00:59:43.859
But if it's a restricted,
that's kind of looks like a

00:59:43.860 --> 00:59:45.770
non restricted it's five again.

00:59:45.890 --> 00:59:49.220
But if it takes a pistol mags and it's
10, they said, tell you what, anything

00:59:49.220 --> 00:59:53.330
that's pinned, uh, it's going to be
made prohibited is what I'm hearing.

00:59:53.590 --> 00:59:53.730
I

00:59:53.730 --> 00:59:54.630
Matt Siemens: heard the same thing.

00:59:54.650 --> 00:59:55.160
And then like.

00:59:55.610 --> 00:59:57.290
We get stuff up from Ruger.

00:59:57.500 --> 00:59:57.830
Mm-Hmm.

00:59:58.130 --> 00:59:59.870
. And they won't be pinned to be dimpled.

01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:00.870
Right.

01:00:01.110 --> 01:00:03.660
And 'cause pending is
not legal in some states.

01:00:04.050 --> 01:00:04.080
Mm.

01:00:04.085 --> 01:00:05.130
'cause it could be removed.

01:00:05.190 --> 01:00:05.490
Right.

01:00:05.580 --> 01:00:08.430
So they dimple the mag and
they sim simply with a hammer.

01:00:08.430 --> 01:00:10.050
They probably have a jig, they
put it in the hammer and a

01:00:10.050 --> 01:00:12.210
punch and it deforms the mag.

01:00:12.215 --> 01:00:12.255
Mm-Hmm.

01:00:12.720 --> 01:00:15.810
And then they get people upset with
that because the mags deformed.

01:00:15.810 --> 01:00:21.320
Well, you know, P'S not legal, so
this is what it is and we aren't

01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:24.430
big enough for them to to, to do it.

01:00:24.940 --> 01:00:27.320
Travis Bader: Yeah, I remember back
in the day when, uh, Vancouver police,

01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:30.980
you know, they transitioned from their
Breda's to their Sig's and it was my

01:00:30.980 --> 01:00:34.470
job to dimple thousands of magazines.

01:00:34.470 --> 01:00:36.039
And that's exactly what I did.

01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:40.419
Made a little jig, slide the thing
in, get the torch just to heat it and

01:00:40.420 --> 01:00:41.870
then give it a smack, bring it out.

01:00:41.870 --> 01:00:44.470
So they all have a little bit of
discoloration from the torch and

01:00:44.470 --> 01:00:46.720
a little bit of a dimple, but
they're all in the same place.

01:00:47.690 --> 01:00:52.980
Made them legal again for them to be able
to sell it prior to them, uh, enforcing

01:00:52.980 --> 01:00:57.600
some, uh, legislation or regulations that
were on the books about law enforcement,

01:00:57.620 --> 01:00:59.260
being able to recoup costs through the

01:00:59.870 --> 01:01:00.090
Matt Siemens: city of Margaret.

01:01:00.110 --> 01:01:01.329
My understanding, they can't anymore.

01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:03.280
Travis Bader: They can and they can't.

01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:08.870
I mean, the legislation was on the books,
um, but they just weren't enacting it.

01:01:09.930 --> 01:01:11.050
Some stuff happened.

01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:12.830
They decided they're going to enact it.

01:01:12.890 --> 01:01:15.520
And from what I understand,
there is a little bit of a, um.

01:01:15.955 --> 01:01:17.055
It's a bit of a gray area.

01:01:17.105 --> 01:01:18.975
I think they came down really
hard and said, you can't.

01:01:19.185 --> 01:01:22.585
The same reason why, let's say safety
course instructors in Canada, they used

01:01:22.595 --> 01:01:27.434
to get all of their firearms through
seized guns from the police stations.

01:01:27.434 --> 01:01:31.535
And they'd in BC, they'd either come
over to, at the time it was, uh, Murray

01:01:31.535 --> 01:01:33.794
Charlton, who was doing it or myself.

01:01:33.835 --> 01:01:39.475
And we would be, um, Deactivating
or the, now they call it disabling a

01:01:39.585 --> 01:01:43.205
firearm so that it'll still click and
it'll still do what it's got to do.

01:01:43.205 --> 01:01:45.315
And, but it'll never go bang again.

01:01:45.615 --> 01:01:46.405
And we get it all from the.

01:01:47.650 --> 01:01:49.470
And then they said, you
can't do that anymore.

01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:51.840
And I think that's
certain to lax up a bit.

01:01:52.100 --> 01:01:53.070
I've certain areas.

01:01:53.070 --> 01:01:56.089
I still hear instructors saying,
Oh, I went to my local RCMP

01:01:56.089 --> 01:01:57.230
and they put some aside for me.

01:01:58.010 --> 01:01:58.870
So there's a lot

01:01:58.870 --> 01:02:00.170
Matt Siemens: of officer
discretion involved.

01:02:00.249 --> 01:02:00.679
Yes.

01:02:00.720 --> 01:02:02.490
And it depends where you are.

01:02:04.029 --> 01:02:07.960
I have some friends who are
members and, uh, they're night

01:02:07.960 --> 01:02:09.700
and day how they interpret things.

01:02:10.660 --> 01:02:11.080
Travis Bader: Sure.

01:02:11.110 --> 01:02:11.350
Yeah.

01:02:11.680 --> 01:02:11.840
Yeah.

01:02:11.840 --> 01:02:13.350
It's like calling up the firearms program.

01:02:13.370 --> 01:02:13.570
Yeah.

01:02:13.610 --> 01:02:16.419
You can call five different times
and get eight different answers.

01:02:16.419 --> 01:02:16.509
Yeah.

01:02:18.390 --> 01:02:22.630
Interesting world that we try and
navigate, create, make sure that like

01:02:22.630 --> 01:02:28.139
operating a business, I got to imagine
it's got to be incredibly difficult

01:02:28.260 --> 01:02:35.109
for a company as large as the one
you work with to, uh, operate under

01:02:35.110 --> 01:02:39.019
the auspices of certain rules and
regulations only to have somebody else

01:02:39.020 --> 01:02:40.644
interpreted differently the next day.

01:02:40.865 --> 01:02:41.055
And

01:02:41.055 --> 01:02:44.435
Matt Siemens: this is why we draw
the company makes policies are

01:02:44.435 --> 01:02:47.445
black and white and people want
to see, well, can't you help me?

01:02:47.455 --> 01:02:48.485
No, we're black and white.

01:02:48.485 --> 01:02:56.955
We have to be, there's too many variables
involved and we've been advised or we, the

01:02:57.365 --> 01:02:59.004
company feels that this is what it means.

01:02:59.265 --> 01:03:00.195
So we stick to that and we don't

01:03:00.195 --> 01:03:00.874
Travis Bader: deviate from it.

01:03:01.505 --> 01:03:04.595
Do you guys seek permission
or do you seek, um, do you

01:03:04.595 --> 01:03:05.845
say this is what we're doing?

01:03:05.865 --> 01:03:08.445
Does it meet, do you
look for tacit approval?

01:03:08.455 --> 01:03:09.924
Do you look for it?

01:03:10.195 --> 01:03:11.945
Because if you want to
get everything in writing?

01:03:12.375 --> 01:03:13.555
You're going to be waiting years.

01:03:13.595 --> 01:03:13.795
Yeah.

01:03:13.955 --> 01:03:13.995
That's

01:03:13.995 --> 01:03:14.725
Matt Siemens: above my pay grade.

01:03:14.875 --> 01:03:15.295
Okay.

01:03:15.525 --> 01:03:17.375
It comes down to me and I
just follow what I'm told.

01:03:17.395 --> 01:03:17.775
Sure.

01:03:17.785 --> 01:03:18.355
Fair enough.

01:03:18.825 --> 01:03:23.325
I I've, yeah, I don't need to put
that responsibility on myself.

01:03:23.325 --> 01:03:26.804
If someone else is going to do it, I'll
listen and do exactly what I'm told.

01:03:26.805 --> 01:03:26.995
Travis Bader: Right.

01:03:27.015 --> 01:03:27.215
Yeah.

01:03:27.224 --> 01:03:27.964
Fair enough.

01:03:28.184 --> 01:03:33.595
Where do you see the future of, uh, of
firearms in, in Canada and, and hunting?

01:03:36.640 --> 01:03:36.940
That's

01:03:36.940 --> 01:03:37.570
Matt Siemens: a tough one.

01:03:37.690 --> 01:03:41.910
If something doesn't change now,
it's not going to be a good future.

01:03:43.210 --> 01:03:45.250
And that, that can be
interpreted in many ways.

01:03:45.850 --> 01:03:48.359
And that's just how I feel though.

01:03:49.460 --> 01:03:53.160
It's brutal what we're going
through as history repeats itself.

01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:58.399
You can draw all these parallels
from other regimes and stuff.

01:03:58.399 --> 01:04:00.619
And some of the stuff's word for word.

01:04:01.640 --> 01:04:03.540
Travis Bader: You talk to some
people and they say, you know,

01:04:03.540 --> 01:04:04.640
the writing's on the wall.

01:04:04.710 --> 01:04:06.070
I mean, it's just a matter of time.

01:04:07.100 --> 01:04:12.639
Um, I got to wonder what would
have to happen in order for

01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:14.800
that not to go down that course.

01:04:15.500 --> 01:04:16.910
Matt Siemens: There has to
be a change in government.

01:04:17.810 --> 01:04:22.479
I mean, that that's, that's the first,
but can the Canadian with a Canadian

01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:28.740
public allow the next government, give
them enough leeway and time to fix.

01:04:29.065 --> 01:04:35.115
What it is, where most Canadians
can't buy green bananas to plan ahead.

01:04:35.365 --> 01:04:37.785
And then they aren't, they aren't
going to be able to sit here and wait

01:04:37.785 --> 01:04:41.805
for the cons, if say the conservative
party is going to be our saviour,

01:04:41.844 --> 01:04:44.674
they aren't going to give them two
terms to fix what the last guys did.

01:04:45.104 --> 01:04:45.434
Right.

01:04:45.944 --> 01:04:49.655
They're going to, Oh, this is soon
as soon as they start tightening

01:04:49.655 --> 01:04:52.665
the belt and stuff, they're going
to, Oh, it was better the other way.

01:04:52.665 --> 01:04:55.515
And it's just, they can't see the future.

01:04:56.470 --> 01:05:01.450
Travis Bader: Well, I look at COVID
all of a sudden, there's a resurgence

01:05:01.450 --> 01:05:05.870
in people wanting to be able to
be self reliant to get outside.

01:05:07.380 --> 01:05:10.369
Obviously, uh, self
protection was another one.

01:05:10.370 --> 01:05:12.290
They kind of brought it to the forefront.

01:05:13.379 --> 01:05:16.959
And I guess if I'm to be pessimistic,
I'd say that's probably the only

01:05:16.970 --> 01:05:20.030
thing that will course correct,
even different governments coming in

01:05:20.030 --> 01:05:25.370
might slow or bait these different,
uh, the course that we're on.

01:05:25.755 --> 01:05:30.925
But it's going to take either natural
disaster, war, something catastrophic

01:05:30.925 --> 01:05:35.995
in order for people to reevaluate,
um, what they find important.

01:05:36.155 --> 01:05:36.455
I,

01:05:36.505 --> 01:05:37.814
Matt Siemens: I've been
saying that for a while.

01:05:37.814 --> 01:05:42.595
It's going to take an act of God or a
catastrophic event to get the country

01:05:42.595 --> 01:05:44.554
back on, on, on the right course.

01:05:45.565 --> 01:05:47.905
Especially if we get another
liberal government in.

01:05:49.935 --> 01:05:53.955
And I say, I'm not picking on the
liberals here because Mulroney's

01:05:53.985 --> 01:05:56.785
conservatives and Kim Campbell
brought a bunch of this crap in.

01:05:56.914 --> 01:05:57.284
Sure.

01:05:57.374 --> 01:05:57.584
Yeah.

01:05:57.584 --> 01:06:01.155
So it's the best way to look at it.

01:06:01.164 --> 01:06:03.035
They're, they're, they're
all in the same party.

01:06:03.045 --> 01:06:04.144
It's just different money wings.

01:06:04.144 --> 01:06:04.404
Travis Bader: Right.

01:06:04.744 --> 01:06:08.065
Well, I, I look at it and I know, you
know, the macro politics are going to

01:06:08.065 --> 01:06:11.720
be different from the micro politics,
but I remember, And there were years

01:06:11.720 --> 01:06:15.480
ago, here we are in the incorporation
of Delta, which is now the city of

01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:20.290
Delta and at the time of the corporation
of Delta says, we don't want any more

01:06:20.300 --> 01:06:22.630
firearms related businesses in Delta.

01:06:22.640 --> 01:06:24.119
Similar to what Syria has done.

01:06:24.119 --> 01:06:27.780
If you're in there, you're grandfathered,
but, uh, that's it no more.

01:06:27.839 --> 01:06:28.199
Right.

01:06:29.290 --> 01:06:34.540
And so I went in there and I had myself
all prepared and got my suit on and

01:06:34.540 --> 01:06:38.489
I've got all my notes and I'm in there
and I'm talking, given all my different

01:06:38.500 --> 01:06:41.150
points and you know, that there was one.

01:06:41.390 --> 01:06:44.600
Um, firearm business that thought
this was the greatest thing in the

01:06:44.600 --> 01:06:47.540
world because they were close to
retirement and this was just making,

01:06:47.810 --> 01:06:49.750
um, it was a short sighted approach.

01:06:49.770 --> 01:06:54.359
And, um, I didn't see eye to eye with
that individual on that one point.

01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:57.469
Great person, but just that one
point, I didn't see eye to eye on.

01:06:57.770 --> 01:07:03.010
Anyways, I'm given my spiel
and one of the guys stands up.

01:07:03.040 --> 01:07:04.960
One of the politicians says, Travis.

01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:07.520
Like, how, how much longer
are you going to go here?

01:07:07.910 --> 01:07:10.030
And it's cause he sees all my notes.

01:07:10.030 --> 01:07:10.730
And I says, well, I don't know.

01:07:10.730 --> 01:07:12.160
I got this much more to go through.

01:07:12.200 --> 01:07:14.290
And he's like, let me just stop you short.

01:07:14.839 --> 01:07:16.550
I agree with everything you're saying.

01:07:16.860 --> 01:07:20.150
This has got nothing to do with what
makes sense and it's got everything to

01:07:20.150 --> 01:07:21.700
do with what we think that people want.

01:07:23.390 --> 01:07:25.800
Oh, I didn't know how to respond to that.

01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:28.570
He says, yeah, no, you're right.

01:07:28.650 --> 01:07:32.530
Nothing here really makes sense,
but this is what we think the

01:07:32.570 --> 01:07:35.460
constituents who elected us in want.

01:07:36.789 --> 01:07:37.630
And I.

01:07:38.735 --> 01:07:40.885
Look at that more on the macro side.

01:07:41.405 --> 01:07:44.015
Is this what people actually want?

01:07:44.115 --> 01:07:45.445
I think people want safety.

01:07:45.445 --> 01:07:51.284
They want security, but I think the
story that's being told over and

01:07:51.284 --> 01:07:55.895
over again, either through either
inadvertently through let's say

01:07:55.895 --> 01:08:01.874
media, which glorifies firearms and
in a certain way, or through, um.

01:08:02.620 --> 01:08:07.220
Like legacy media and social media and
all the rest that may be objective driven

01:08:07.220 --> 01:08:09.130
to, to paint a picture in a certain way.

01:08:09.510 --> 01:08:12.130
They'll say, you know, firearms
are bad or hunting is bad.

01:08:12.130 --> 01:08:15.309
And majority of people say, well,
yeah, you know, I want to be safe.

01:08:15.310 --> 01:08:17.569
I don't want to walk out and see
everybody carrying around a gun.

01:08:17.569 --> 01:08:19.069
Cause that doesn't make me feel safe.

01:08:19.419 --> 01:08:22.809
I don't want to see people out there
hurting these poor animals because,

01:08:22.870 --> 01:08:26.030
you know, I'd rather just get it
from the abattoir and don't, don't

01:08:26.030 --> 01:08:27.340
you just get meat from Safeway.

01:08:27.730 --> 01:08:32.140
And I think there's an education piece
in here that can bridge the gap of.

01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:36.050
What people actually want, because
they want safety and security and

01:08:36.050 --> 01:08:39.880
they want their environment to
thrive and the animals to do well.

01:08:40.530 --> 01:08:41.460
And how we get there.

01:08:41.470 --> 01:08:46.050
And I think there's, there's a,
a divide in there that we aren't

01:08:46.140 --> 01:08:47.710
adequately bridging at the moment.

01:08:48.610 --> 01:08:48.970
No,

01:08:49.010 --> 01:08:52.090
Matt Siemens: and it's uphill battle
because like you say, the media

01:08:52.139 --> 01:08:56.179
is giving people what they want.

01:08:56.610 --> 01:08:56.960
Right.

01:08:57.070 --> 01:09:01.170
And, and it's the politician, all
the politician wants is another term

01:09:02.010 --> 01:09:04.140
and it's keeps on going that way.

01:09:04.450 --> 01:09:09.100
If it was all based on science
and common sense and all that

01:09:09.100 --> 01:09:10.600
kind of stuff, it wouldn't be an

01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:10.980
Travis Bader: issue.

01:09:11.540 --> 01:09:12.410
It's based on money.

01:09:13.245 --> 01:09:13.985
Follow the money.

01:09:14.095 --> 01:09:14.305
Right.

01:09:14.305 --> 01:09:16.895
Media doesn't sell stories.

01:09:16.895 --> 01:09:18.175
They sell advertising, right?

01:09:18.185 --> 01:09:20.465
They want eyes on so
they can convert that.

01:09:20.465 --> 01:09:23.955
And there's going to be money involved,
or there's going to be money back through

01:09:23.955 --> 01:09:27.804
the government, if certain governments are
in power that are favorable to the media.

01:09:29.465 --> 01:09:34.735
And I think people are starting to wake
up to that, you know, just all the.

01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:40.350
Um, fake news, all the, like what
Trump, Trump would go on about.

01:09:40.350 --> 01:09:44.259
I think people are waking up to the
amount of bias that's out there, but it

01:09:44.259 --> 01:09:47.450
also creates a very dangerous category
where people just can't believe anything.

01:09:47.460 --> 01:09:48.469
They don't know what to believe.

01:09:48.469 --> 01:09:48.599
And

01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:50.265
Matt Siemens: it's something
comes across as plausible.

01:09:50.265 --> 01:09:54.550
Well, if you look at how many of
these tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

01:09:54.610 --> 01:09:54.890
Mm.

01:09:55.460 --> 01:10:00.340
Have the, have been proven correct and
actually exist in the last three years.

01:10:00.360 --> 01:10:00.630
Like

01:10:00.630 --> 01:10:01.980
Travis Bader: it's, it's just brutal.

01:10:02.160 --> 01:10:03.840
I actually got my tinfoil hat back there.

01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:05.203
You can just see it up behind me.

01:10:05.203 --> 01:10:06.860
I haven't had a chance to wear it yet.

01:10:06.860 --> 01:10:09.789
I'm just waiting for some guests to
come on with some real tinfoil stuff.

01:10:09.789 --> 01:10:11.220
And I put my hat on.

01:10:11.959 --> 01:10:15.370
Matt Siemens: I was in Africa when
COVID hit and I flew back through

01:10:15.380 --> 01:10:18.970
four or five major airports around
the world after the lockdown.

01:10:19.050 --> 01:10:19.270
Yeah.

01:10:20.505 --> 01:10:23.995
And all I can say is my firsthand
experience for what that's

01:10:23.995 --> 01:10:26.585
worth, this and two bucks will
get you a coffee at Timmy's.

01:10:27.685 --> 01:10:31.395
It's how they were talking about the
lockdown being handled in all these

01:10:31.395 --> 01:10:34.025
countries and all these wasn't the case.

01:10:34.945 --> 01:10:37.164
I, I, I seen it myself
completely different.

01:10:37.515 --> 01:10:41.155
Did it change right after I left
or was it like that before I came?

01:10:41.185 --> 01:10:46.235
I don't know, but I went through these
places and it wasn't, wasn't with

01:10:46.245 --> 01:10:47.845
anything, anything the news was reporting.

01:10:48.495 --> 01:10:51.815
It was definitely agenda
driven and a lot of fear

01:10:51.815 --> 01:10:52.655
Travis Bader: mongering going on.

01:10:53.225 --> 01:10:57.655
I likened it to fog that whole thing,
because I'd talk to people and no

01:10:57.655 --> 01:11:01.395
fellow in Spain, he was doing some
work on one of our websites and he's

01:11:01.395 --> 01:11:04.105
in Valencia there and COVID first hit.

01:11:04.115 --> 01:11:05.315
He's like, Oh, it's bad.

01:11:05.405 --> 01:11:05.885
Okay.

01:11:05.925 --> 01:11:06.625
Tell me about this.

01:11:06.625 --> 01:11:06.835
Right?

01:11:06.835 --> 01:11:08.994
Like we don't, I'm, I'm learning here.

01:11:09.750 --> 01:11:12.200
Oh, you know, the lockdowns are
going to happen and people are going

01:11:12.200 --> 01:11:13.720
to start dying and this and that.

01:11:13.840 --> 01:11:16.550
Are you seeing that in your
area there in Valencia?

01:11:16.570 --> 01:11:20.809
Well, no, no, but it's, it's over in these
other areas and just like fog, right?

01:11:21.189 --> 01:11:23.060
Are you, is it really
foggy right where you are?

01:11:23.060 --> 01:11:25.870
Well, no, I can see all around me,
but it's really foggy over there.

01:11:25.880 --> 01:11:28.290
You walk over there and you look
around, it's the same thing, right?

01:11:28.810 --> 01:11:29.159
There's a

01:11:29.160 --> 01:11:32.740
Matt Siemens: European vendor
we were dealing with and the

01:11:32.740 --> 01:11:34.350
conversation was, how's it going?

01:11:34.360 --> 01:11:35.330
And they go, this is great.

01:11:35.400 --> 01:11:36.200
There's no tourists.

01:11:37.900 --> 01:11:39.150
And I'll leave it at that, right?

01:11:39.380 --> 01:11:39.520
Right.

01:11:39.529 --> 01:11:39.809
Like

01:11:39.819 --> 01:11:40.510
Travis Bader: it was.

01:11:41.340 --> 01:11:46.110
Well, it also had an effect of, on
firearms businesses, which was positive

01:11:46.130 --> 01:11:49.860
in the short term, it's not a sustainable
sort of model, but I mean, it got

01:11:49.860 --> 01:11:54.680
everybody wanting to learn to hunt,
wanting to learn to garden, wanting to

01:11:54.810 --> 01:11:58.850
purchase firearms and you couldn't keep
them on the shelves for quite some time.

01:11:58.910 --> 01:11:59.179
Yeah.

01:11:59.179 --> 01:11:59.549
There was

01:11:59.560 --> 01:12:02.730
Matt Siemens: that time where you
had this happening and political

01:12:02.730 --> 01:12:04.020
stuff happening around the world.

01:12:04.030 --> 01:12:08.020
It was a perfect storm for the
industry, but not, not sustainable.

01:12:08.980 --> 01:12:10.400
And we're going through
the correction now.

01:12:10.490 --> 01:12:15.560
It's still, there's still strong sales,
but it's, well, even if we went back to

01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:20.830
quote unquote, normal, people would think
is the bottoms dropped out because it was

01:12:20.830 --> 01:12:23.590
Travis Bader: just so, so
busy for those few years.

01:12:24.040 --> 01:12:24.730
Yeah.

01:12:25.169 --> 01:12:25.379
Yeah.

01:12:25.379 --> 01:12:29.020
That was, uh, it was interesting.

01:12:29.079 --> 01:12:32.760
Uh, you're not seeing people wanting
to go outside in the same way anymore.

01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:36.470
It's funny how quickly people can
just go back to, well, this is normal.

01:12:36.470 --> 01:12:38.210
This is, this is easy.

01:12:38.925 --> 01:12:42.335
The easy path, I guess that's why
we have game trails because we are

01:12:42.335 --> 01:12:43.955
animals, just like anything else.

01:12:43.965 --> 01:12:44.885
This is an easy way.

01:12:44.885 --> 01:12:47.905
And I can, I was go back and
forth kind of on autopilot.

01:12:47.955 --> 01:12:48.265
Yeah.

01:12:48.555 --> 01:12:49.615
Path least resistance.

01:12:49.665 --> 01:12:50.125
Yeah.

01:12:51.285 --> 01:12:51.955
Interesting.

01:12:52.435 --> 01:12:56.875
Um, any other, any inside scoops from
the industry that we should be, uh,

01:12:56.955 --> 01:12:59.535
chatting about any up and coming things?

01:13:01.105 --> 01:13:02.375
That you're allowed to talk about?

01:13:02.795 --> 01:13:03.315
Well, it's not the real

01:13:03.325 --> 01:13:03.875
Matt Siemens: secret now.

01:13:03.875 --> 01:13:06.265
Everything will be released at
SHOT Show, that type of thing.

01:13:06.265 --> 01:13:06.525
Right.

01:13:06.555 --> 01:13:09.735
Um, on the, on the loophole side of
things, they brought the Mark IV back.

01:13:10.025 --> 01:13:10.395
Okay.

01:13:10.434 --> 01:13:12.165
And it seemed that Mark IV HD.

01:13:12.224 --> 01:13:12.444
Yeah.

01:13:12.815 --> 01:13:15.175
And it looks like they've
done a great job on it.

01:13:15.295 --> 01:13:15.634
Nice.

01:13:15.634 --> 01:13:16.594
Hit it out of the park.

01:13:16.724 --> 01:13:17.204
Nice.

01:13:17.284 --> 01:13:19.795
We'll, we'll see how the
sales translate to that.

01:13:19.805 --> 01:13:23.935
And Hornet is always coming out
with these new cartridges and what

01:13:23.935 --> 01:13:25.445
a lot of them are designed for.

01:13:26.140 --> 01:13:30.350
Military application and then released
to the public as a secondary thing.

01:13:30.350 --> 01:13:34.090
But a lot of that stuff is AR driven
and we've lost that market here.

01:13:34.990 --> 01:13:36.300
It'll still work in a bolt gun, but.

01:13:36.835 --> 01:13:39.115
For the, for the Americans and their ARs.

01:13:39.165 --> 01:13:40.345
It's some

01:13:40.345 --> 01:13:41.175
Travis Bader: neat stuff out there.

01:13:41.235 --> 01:13:42.995
Do you think, do you
think ARs are coming back?

01:13:44.725 --> 01:13:45.485
I sure hope so.

01:13:46.385 --> 01:13:46.895
Yeah.

01:13:47.205 --> 01:13:52.045
I, um, cause they're talking about a
complete rewrite of the firearms act.

01:13:53.274 --> 01:13:58.625
It's so patchwork together as it is right
now, and it's so open to interpretation.

01:13:59.530 --> 01:14:03.430
It's, um, it's a little ridiculous,
you know, people will call up and

01:14:03.430 --> 01:14:06.290
they'll say, you know, I got this issue.

01:14:06.930 --> 01:14:08.790
Do you know a good firearms lawyer?

01:14:09.510 --> 01:14:10.640
And I always tell them the same thing.

01:14:10.640 --> 01:14:12.049
You don't need a firearms lawyer.

01:14:12.080 --> 01:14:13.130
You just need a good lawyer.

01:14:13.630 --> 01:14:17.709
Somebody knows who's got a sharp head, who
knows procedural law and everything else.

01:14:18.325 --> 01:14:21.245
Because that, that's not
where these things are going

01:14:21.245 --> 01:14:22.395
to be won or lost for you.

01:14:23.035 --> 01:14:23.295
Yeah.

01:14:23.565 --> 01:14:26.255
Matt Siemens: But it comes back
to our talk there about educating,

01:14:26.305 --> 01:14:30.295
educating people, like so many people,
all the semi auto, the auto, uh,

01:14:30.335 --> 01:14:34.065
automatic is everything that's, they
have no place in the sporting field.

01:14:34.115 --> 01:14:37.155
Well, actually they were made for the
sportsmen long before the military,

01:14:37.875 --> 01:14:39.135
when Chester came out with that.

01:14:39.565 --> 01:14:42.615
Self, self loading rifle,
Remington model eight.

01:14:42.965 --> 01:14:46.145
And that's where Kalashnikov,
Kalashnikov got his safety for the

01:14:46.155 --> 01:14:47.505
AK off the Remington model eight.

01:14:48.305 --> 01:14:52.074
They were built for the Hunter
that at early in the early part

01:14:52.074 --> 01:14:53.274
of the century, last century.

01:14:53.275 --> 01:14:59.255
And the military didn't start using them
successfully until the grand World War II.

01:14:59.455 --> 01:15:02.045
But, but the semi auto rifle was made.

01:15:03.845 --> 01:15:05.225
Travis Bader: And most people
don't think about it like that.

01:15:05.245 --> 01:15:05.915
No, no.

01:15:07.725 --> 01:15:08.415
Interesting.

01:15:09.185 --> 01:15:13.505
So, you know, SHOT Show, the one thing I
did like about it, they'd send us media

01:15:13.505 --> 01:15:15.275
passes, so I don't have to pay to get in.

01:15:15.275 --> 01:15:19.205
I get to go down to the range days ahead
of time, and that was always a fun thing.

01:15:19.215 --> 01:15:23.304
You get to go in, shoot all the
new things for free, meet all

01:15:23.304 --> 01:15:24.445
the people that are out there.

01:15:24.995 --> 01:15:29.020
Um, is that something
that you guys would Uh,

01:15:29.020 --> 01:15:33.270
Matt Siemens: the LE guys would
be down there with our various

01:15:33.290 --> 01:15:35.300
vendors on the line and stuff.

01:15:35.300 --> 01:15:35.620
Yeah.

01:15:36.060 --> 01:15:39.350
As we'd separated, uh, I
used to do LEN commercial.

01:15:39.390 --> 01:15:41.200
Now I just do the
commercial side of things.

01:15:41.710 --> 01:15:43.879
So I'm not dealing with
that nearly as much.

01:15:43.890 --> 01:15:47.980
I'll pick up some slack once in a while,
but I never went down there and shot that.

01:15:47.980 --> 01:15:52.680
I've done it before in previous life
and played with all that kind of stuff.

01:15:52.710 --> 01:15:53.470
It's fun.

01:15:53.470 --> 01:15:54.990
And I'll let someone else go.

01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:55.829
I've not had a chance yet.

01:15:56.040 --> 01:15:56.730
Travis Bader: Yeah, makes sense.

01:15:56.740 --> 01:15:59.980
I just like free food, free, free shuttle

01:15:59.980 --> 01:16:00.250
Matt Siemens: down.

01:16:00.260 --> 01:16:02.570
Anytime you can shoot a full
auto on someone else's animal

01:16:02.570 --> 01:16:03.560
bill, that's the way to do it.

01:16:04.670 --> 01:16:05.330
Travis Bader: Yes.

01:16:05.840 --> 01:16:07.070
Um, what else?

01:16:07.180 --> 01:16:14.020
Um, so looking at these African hunts,
um, you're saying before, you know, caviar

01:16:14.020 --> 01:16:15.980
tastes on a, on a peanut butter budget.

01:16:16.490 --> 01:16:20.970
Um, what advice would you have to
somebody else who's looking to, to do

01:16:20.970 --> 01:16:22.650
the same thing, go on an African hunt?

01:16:26.640 --> 01:16:27.460
It's achievable.

01:16:27.690 --> 01:16:29.010
Matt Siemens: That's,
that's the bottom line.

01:16:29.030 --> 01:16:33.700
If you go to vacation, if you go
on vacation to Hawaii, Mexico,

01:16:33.710 --> 01:16:37.864
if you do a cruise, you can do
an African hunt if you want to.

01:16:42.385 --> 01:16:47.175
It's, um, I'm very lucky that the, my key
thing that gets me to Africa is my wife.

01:16:47.405 --> 01:16:48.685
She's a hundred percent supportive.

01:16:48.804 --> 01:16:49.234
Okay.

01:16:49.285 --> 01:16:53.785
And that changes it that I know
people who wives aren't quite as

01:16:53.975 --> 01:16:55.464
encouraging as when it comes to hunting.

01:16:55.464 --> 01:16:57.065
My wife's a hundred percent behind it.

01:16:57.835 --> 01:17:01.265
And actually on the hunt I'm going on
now, I was going to go shoot a female lion

01:17:02.075 --> 01:17:03.065
Travis Bader: on a management hunt.

01:17:03.165 --> 01:17:04.445
That's going to raise some eyebrows

01:17:04.445 --> 01:17:05.478
Matt Siemens: and get some people upset.

01:17:05.478 --> 01:17:11.290
And, uh, I, because the price
was, uh, In my budget and my wife,

01:17:11.290 --> 01:17:13.060
no, they're going to close this.

01:17:13.090 --> 01:17:14.650
It's not going to be
something you can do again.

01:17:14.650 --> 01:17:20.630
Go, go, go shoot a male, go
shoot the big main lions.

01:17:20.929 --> 01:17:22.029
Well, go hunt for me.

01:17:22.040 --> 01:17:23.820
Whether you get one or not,
it's a different story.

01:17:23.849 --> 01:17:24.099
Right.

01:17:24.429 --> 01:17:29.939
And so he twisted my arm and
that's what I signed up for now.

01:17:30.810 --> 01:17:31.819
Like I'm not.

01:17:32.050 --> 01:17:33.130
I don't have the money.

01:17:33.290 --> 01:17:36.470
I'm just financially irresponsible.

01:17:36.510 --> 01:17:36.740
Right.

01:17:37.380 --> 01:17:37.630
So.

01:17:38.340 --> 01:17:39.450
Travis Bader: You got the perseverance.

01:17:39.470 --> 01:17:39.800
Yeah.

01:17:39.800 --> 01:17:42.739
Matt Siemens: It's, it's one of
the things it's, I wanted something

01:17:42.739 --> 01:17:43.570
I never thought I'd ever do.

01:17:43.890 --> 01:17:47.469
Travis Bader: Well, there's also
the aspect of, uh, the hunter can

01:17:47.469 --> 01:17:48.734
be hunted with these things too.

01:17:48.734 --> 01:17:49.099
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

01:17:49.099 --> 01:17:50.699
It's called dangerous game for a reason.

01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:53.460
And then it's part of the big five.

01:17:54.340 --> 01:17:58.870
And I, if you had told me 15 years ago,
I'd be talking about hunting the big five.

01:17:59.690 --> 01:18:00.740
I would've thought you were nuts.

01:18:00.750 --> 01:18:02.470
Like there's no way someone in my income.

01:18:05.675 --> 01:18:09.625
And if I'm successful in the lion hunt,
it'll be my number four of the big five.

01:18:10.225 --> 01:18:10.675
Wow.

01:18:10.755 --> 01:18:14.995
So, and it's something I've, and
it's just chasing things down.

01:18:15.005 --> 01:18:17.105
The buddy came to me a couple
of years ago, asked me if

01:18:17.105 --> 01:18:17.945
I want to shoot a leopard.

01:18:17.945 --> 01:18:21.465
And of course I want to shoot a leopard,
but that's not my income bracket.

01:18:21.474 --> 01:18:21.894
That's.

01:18:23.015 --> 01:18:26.705
A quarter of my annual salary or
more, I can't do that kind of stuff.

01:18:26.705 --> 01:18:30.785
And he, he, well, yeah, you give me
this, I'll give you a lion as a leopard.

01:18:30.795 --> 01:18:32.395
And so, well, what am I missing here?

01:18:32.735 --> 01:18:33.835
The numbers don't add up.

01:18:33.835 --> 01:18:35.485
He's no, I'll just, you help me.

01:18:35.635 --> 01:18:36.325
I'll help you out.

01:18:36.895 --> 01:18:38.284
So the right place at the right time.

01:18:38.284 --> 01:18:43.920
And when I hunted Pakistan back when,
uh, I had my friend from Georgia up here,

01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:47.470
we're hunting the, the bison in Alberta
when they were concealed, considered

01:18:47.470 --> 01:18:50.939
pests, when they didn't need a license
or anything, that's just a few years ago.

01:18:51.039 --> 01:18:51.389
Right.

01:18:52.000 --> 01:18:55.620
And we were way back up hunting
bison and his cell phone rings.

01:18:56.380 --> 01:18:59.539
There's no cell phone
service, but the phone rang.

01:18:59.549 --> 01:19:02.380
It must've been, I don't know what
they call it, skip or whatever.

01:19:02.380 --> 01:19:02.999
And sure.

01:19:03.050 --> 01:19:04.860
And it was one of his pro staff.

01:19:05.370 --> 01:19:09.980
Was canceling the Pakistan
hunt for that January.

01:19:10.250 --> 01:19:10.620
Okay.

01:19:10.760 --> 01:19:12.670
This is in the September.

01:19:14.040 --> 01:19:16.560
And so he ended up the phone and he goes,
Siemens, do you want to go to Pakistan?

01:19:17.150 --> 01:19:18.020
What's it going to cost me?

01:19:18.300 --> 01:19:19.080
He goes, the hunt's free.

01:19:19.469 --> 01:19:20.190
So you got to get there.

01:19:20.600 --> 01:19:21.620
I said, well, sign me up.

01:19:22.600 --> 01:19:23.499
And that's how I got the

01:19:23.500 --> 01:19:24.319
Travis Bader: Pakistan hunt.

01:19:24.449 --> 01:19:26.220
And he works all on board with this.

01:19:26.279 --> 01:19:26.389
Yeah.

01:19:26.389 --> 01:19:27.300
We're going to lose you for.

01:19:28.945 --> 01:19:29.245
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

01:19:29.245 --> 01:19:31.435
Well, I, I flew, uh, I flew over Pakistan.

01:19:31.435 --> 01:19:35.585
I landed the 13th of January
and shot show started the 15th.

01:19:35.655 --> 01:19:39.384
So I did a quick turnaround and
going back to us customs after

01:19:39.385 --> 01:19:40.905
visiting Pakistan was interesting.

01:19:41.055 --> 01:19:41.225
Yeah.

01:19:41.225 --> 01:19:43.792
I should imagine, but it was one
of the things that's, that's,

01:19:43.792 --> 01:19:46.640
that's I run everything down.

01:19:46.640 --> 01:19:50.360
Someone offers me a hunt, I'll run
it down and see if it's legit or

01:19:50.360 --> 01:19:54.940
if the guy's just blowing smoke and
if I can do it and then more off

01:19:54.969 --> 01:19:57.289
the beaten path is more enjoyable.

01:19:57.340 --> 01:19:57.580
Right.

01:19:58.020 --> 01:19:59.459
Travis Bader: Are there
many scams out there?

01:19:59.499 --> 01:20:01.840
Many people, uh, run, run and scam hunts.

01:20:03.370 --> 01:20:06.330
Matt Siemens: Yeah, but not as
bad as other industries, I'd say.

01:20:06.540 --> 01:20:10.060
I mean, there's people not
reading the fine print.

01:20:10.940 --> 01:20:14.299
Like, like a lot of people,
these hunting and conservation

01:20:14.300 --> 01:20:15.620
groups, we have fundraisers.

01:20:15.620 --> 01:20:17.750
Like SCI, we have a
fundraiser on April 13th.

01:20:17.750 --> 01:20:19.899
And we have some African
auction hunts there.

01:20:20.820 --> 01:20:25.540
And you can save some money
by buying a hunt there.

01:20:25.540 --> 01:20:26.839
Now.

01:20:27.760 --> 01:20:30.210
Is the hunt going to be
pennies in the dollar?

01:20:30.440 --> 01:20:31.430
Not if you do it right.

01:20:32.250 --> 01:20:34.560
Like you're going to save
a little bit of money.

01:20:34.560 --> 01:20:35.480
It's still going to cost you.

01:20:35.480 --> 01:20:37.640
Instead of spending 10, 000,
you're going to spend eight.

01:20:37.740 --> 01:20:38.060
Right.

01:20:38.340 --> 01:20:43.020
But it's, and you can do it for less
than that too, but you just have

01:20:43.020 --> 01:20:44.250
to, you just have to run them down.

01:20:44.715 --> 01:20:49.555
Like my first trip to New Zealand
was guy made me an offer and I

01:20:49.555 --> 01:20:50.735
kind of lost contact with him.

01:20:50.735 --> 01:20:51.765
I didn't think he was legit.

01:20:51.775 --> 01:20:55.555
Then I found them and send him an
email and, Oh no, the offer stands.

01:20:56.474 --> 01:20:57.405
Let's do this.

01:20:57.405 --> 01:21:00.245
And that was my first of
nine trips down there.

01:21:00.245 --> 01:21:00.535
Right.

01:21:00.575 --> 01:21:03.265
And it was just, but I pursue everything.

01:21:03.915 --> 01:21:05.745
And a lot of times it's.

01:21:07.970 --> 01:21:10.700
You're spinning your wheels for
nothing, but when it does come

01:21:10.700 --> 01:21:13.400
true, it's, it's, it's brilliant.

01:21:13.960 --> 01:21:15.800
Travis Bader: I did a
hunt over in Molokai.

01:21:15.950 --> 01:21:19.440
And yeah, you know, trying to
figure this thing out, hunting

01:21:19.530 --> 01:21:23.529
in the States and access deer, I
can bring all the meat back home.

01:21:23.529 --> 01:21:24.609
This is fantastic.

01:21:24.610 --> 01:21:27.690
And, um, met some great people over there.

01:21:27.950 --> 01:21:29.390
I don't know if I'd do that hunt again.

01:21:29.580 --> 01:21:34.950
Um, Just from my perspective, cause
I met with the, um, uh, some other

01:21:34.950 --> 01:21:38.150
locals and they said, if you want to
hunt, you just let, let me know next

01:21:38.150 --> 01:21:40.439
time we'll, we'll go out together.

01:21:40.680 --> 01:21:45.430
That was the hunt that I want to
do is with the locals is, uh, I, I

01:21:45.670 --> 01:21:48.470
did a recce of the area beforehand.

01:21:48.470 --> 01:21:52.050
I'm looking around and getting
things kind of sorted and, uh, met

01:21:52.050 --> 01:21:53.440
with the, uh, the fellow there.

01:21:54.160 --> 01:21:57.870
And, uh, he said, okay, well, let's get
in this, uh, great big, it wasn't an

01:21:57.880 --> 01:22:03.599
Argo, but it was a multi seater side
by side and we'll drive around and so,

01:22:03.610 --> 01:22:05.179
okay, well, how would I get out here?

01:22:05.180 --> 01:22:09.809
I'm going to hike over the next hillside
and I, the wrecking I've been doing,

01:22:09.830 --> 01:22:10.939
he said, no, no, no, just sit here.

01:22:10.940 --> 01:22:11.859
We'll drive you around.

01:22:11.860 --> 01:22:15.870
And it was, it was a different style
of hunt that I've ever hunted before.

01:22:15.870 --> 01:22:17.690
It was interesting for the experience.

01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:18.800
Got to keep all the meat.

01:22:18.810 --> 01:22:20.900
It was, uh, uh, used.

01:22:21.150 --> 01:22:25.160
Everything on it, got the hides, all
the rest, um, made me feel good about

01:22:25.160 --> 01:22:30.130
myself, but I wanted to put some more
legwork in and I wanted to make it a,

01:22:30.130 --> 01:22:32.709
um, uh, a different type of a hunt.

01:22:32.990 --> 01:22:35.300
So definitely a hundred percent,
I'd do access to area again,

01:22:35.789 --> 01:22:37.889
uh, just in a different way.

01:22:37.919 --> 01:22:42.720
Do you have that sort of, uh, freedom, uh,
if you're doing an African hunt or do you?

01:22:42.730 --> 01:22:43.010
Well,

01:22:43.050 --> 01:22:43.800
Matt Siemens: absolutely.

01:22:43.860 --> 01:22:48.200
Like I know, like in place I hunt in
Namibia, If you want to walk from the

01:22:48.210 --> 01:22:50.370
lodge, you can walk from the lodge.

01:22:50.370 --> 01:22:53.990
If you want to drive out, you can
drive out and get out in stock.

01:22:54.720 --> 01:22:59.050
Um, I know I avoided hunting in
South Africa for quite a few years.

01:22:59.050 --> 01:23:00.840
Cause I heard horror
stories about South Africa.

01:23:01.180 --> 01:23:01.609
So have I.

01:23:01.730 --> 01:23:07.020
And then I went last year in March with
an outfit there and I was very impressed.

01:23:07.119 --> 01:23:13.580
I took my son and a friend and the
outfitter really, the outfitter really.

01:23:14.085 --> 01:23:16.635
Spent time with my son
and it was brilliant.

01:23:17.055 --> 01:23:19.815
And it was, there was, there
was a fence around the place.

01:23:20.255 --> 01:23:21.365
It was a huge, huge

01:23:21.365 --> 01:23:21.725
Travis Bader: farm.

01:23:21.935 --> 01:23:22.535
Like how big?

01:23:23.635 --> 01:23:23.985
Uh,

01:23:24.015 --> 01:23:25.025
Matt Siemens: 15, 000 acres.

01:23:25.294 --> 01:23:25.925
That's pretty big.

01:23:26.444 --> 01:23:30.585
And you know, the animals didn't know
the fence was there, but they knew where

01:23:30.585 --> 01:23:33.284
every rock was, every tree, every bush.

01:23:33.995 --> 01:23:38.975
And I've had many free range, true
free range BC hunts here, much

01:23:38.975 --> 01:23:40.915
easier than that South Africa hunt.

01:23:42.425 --> 01:23:44.795
It's that high fence.

01:23:45.705 --> 01:23:46.975
It isn't my first choice.

01:23:47.335 --> 01:23:48.555
I'm never going to say it is.

01:23:48.665 --> 01:23:49.045
Right.

01:23:49.135 --> 01:23:52.945
But the hunt is still a spirit of
fair chase and it can be challenging.

01:23:53.345 --> 01:23:53.835
Right.

01:23:53.935 --> 01:23:59.025
But then you hear stories of guys go
up and they're hunting a very small

01:23:59.025 --> 01:24:02.365
pool table type thing, like, like
this, this go out and shoot and stuff.

01:24:02.365 --> 01:24:02.965
And that's not for

01:24:02.975 --> 01:24:03.145
Travis Bader: me.

01:24:03.165 --> 01:24:03.895
No, me neither.

01:24:03.895 --> 01:24:04.165
Yeah.

01:24:04.994 --> 01:24:10.045
Um, anytime it became dangerous
when you're out there, anytime

01:24:10.045 --> 01:24:14.705
you've been concerned about, uh,
either the environment or the game.

01:24:15.134 --> 01:24:15.625
Matt Siemens: In Africa.

01:24:15.625 --> 01:24:15.975
Yeah.

01:24:15.985 --> 01:24:16.735
My elephant hunt.

01:24:17.580 --> 01:24:19.460
I have never been more scared in my life.

01:24:19.530 --> 01:24:19.950
Yeah.

01:24:20.190 --> 01:24:21.890
But never felt more
alive at the same time.

01:24:22.440 --> 01:24:25.710
Travis Bader: Well, you never feel quite
as alive when you're almost dead, right?

01:24:25.710 --> 01:24:29.820
Matt Siemens: It's, uh, and it was truly
the most addictive thing I've ever done.

01:24:30.190 --> 01:24:30.500
Yeah.

01:24:30.760 --> 01:24:33.829
It's, I'd never be able to do it again,
just because the costs and stuff.

01:24:33.830 --> 01:24:37.070
And I just happened to be at the
right place again and had a thing.

01:24:37.070 --> 01:24:42.380
And I first seen a wild elephant on my
first trip to Zimbabwe and I thought, wow.

01:24:42.840 --> 01:24:45.320
And you see him in, in the zoo and stuff.

01:24:45.320 --> 01:24:46.270
I had no interest.

01:24:46.535 --> 01:24:47.565
Didn't interest me at all.

01:24:47.605 --> 01:24:47.875
Yeah,

01:24:48.255 --> 01:24:48.365
Travis Bader: I

01:24:48.365 --> 01:24:48.755
Matt Siemens: agree.

01:24:48.815 --> 01:24:51.505
But, but in the wild,
it's a different thing.

01:24:51.575 --> 01:24:51.865
Yeah.

01:24:52.175 --> 01:24:55.805
And it's a whole lot more level
playing field than people think.

01:24:56.375 --> 01:24:57.925
If you screw up.

01:24:58.490 --> 01:25:00.200
Someone's getting hurt, getting stomped.

01:25:00.260 --> 01:25:00.560
Yeah.

01:25:00.640 --> 01:25:03.280
And it's, it's not for everybody.

01:25:03.280 --> 01:25:07.530
Like my pH told me when you shoot an
elephant, you're going to have a very

01:25:07.530 --> 01:25:09.300
emotional response one way or the other.

01:25:10.230 --> 01:25:15.329
And everything is going to be, you're
going to not regret doing it, but,

01:25:15.350 --> 01:25:16.580
but you will never do it again.

01:25:17.340 --> 01:25:18.070
Interesting.

01:25:18.090 --> 01:25:20.839
Or everything else you do
after this is rats and mice.

01:25:21.050 --> 01:25:22.740
He said his term.

01:25:22.740 --> 01:25:24.940
And I had the expensive
reaction, of course.

01:25:25.570 --> 01:25:26.680
And it was most.

01:25:27.490 --> 01:25:28.280
Amazing thing.

01:25:28.280 --> 01:25:30.100
We looked over my first hunt.

01:25:30.220 --> 01:25:31.530
I did a hunt was unsuccessful.

01:25:31.530 --> 01:25:33.430
My first time they let
me come back in a second.

01:25:34.450 --> 01:25:36.140
And we looked at, we're
probably 400 elephant.

01:25:36.370 --> 01:25:38.340
We probably walked 10, 15 miles a day.

01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:41.719
And it was incredibly challenging.

01:25:42.355 --> 01:25:44.605
I couldn't believe the fact that
there could be elephants standing

01:25:44.605 --> 01:25:46.615
in trees, 20 yards in front of
you and you couldn't see them.

01:25:47.035 --> 01:25:47.575
Really?

01:25:47.625 --> 01:25:47.735
Yeah.

01:25:47.765 --> 01:25:48.535
Like it was just like.

01:25:48.535 --> 01:25:49.490
20 yards.

01:25:49.490 --> 01:25:50.444
20 yards.

01:25:50.445 --> 01:25:53.335
We were driving on the road and there's
some elephant tracks across, I can't even

01:25:53.335 --> 01:25:56.514
tell which way they're headed because
it's just this round disc in the sand.

01:25:57.294 --> 01:25:59.575
The tracker looks at it
and says, 20 minutes.

01:25:59.624 --> 01:26:00.834
They're 20 minutes in front of us.

01:26:01.455 --> 01:26:02.935
And I'm like, yeah, this guy's.

01:26:03.255 --> 01:26:04.285
Travis Bader: Like crocodile Dundee

01:26:04.325 --> 01:26:04.505
Matt Siemens: type?

01:26:04.555 --> 01:26:08.255
Drinking all that rotten corn
maize, corn drink that they drink.

01:26:08.255 --> 01:26:12.934
And so we jumped out and 20
minutes later, we were in the herd.

01:26:14.080 --> 01:26:14.500
Wow.

01:26:14.550 --> 01:26:17.990
And I say in the herd, like
you're 10 yards from him

01:26:18.010 --> 01:26:19.820
sometimes, you're right there.

01:26:20.180 --> 01:26:21.250
It's up close and personal.

01:26:21.420 --> 01:26:25.090
You're, you're, when I first booked the
hunt, I asked him, well, what do you want?

01:26:25.110 --> 01:26:27.010
How do you want me to sight my rifle in?

01:26:27.540 --> 01:26:29.220
He goes, well, zero at 25 yards.

01:26:29.810 --> 01:26:30.860
I said, 25 yards.

01:26:30.980 --> 01:26:31.960
Yeah, don't worry.

01:26:31.980 --> 01:26:33.040
We won't shoot that far.

01:26:33.780 --> 01:26:34.700
We won't shoot that far.

01:26:34.810 --> 01:26:38.020
And, and it was, no, year right
up, personal, if something goes

01:26:38.020 --> 01:26:39.249
wrong, it goes wrong in a hurry.

01:26:39.690 --> 01:26:40.450
No kidding.

01:26:40.460 --> 01:26:44.890
And, um, what people don't understand,
there's not as many elephants as there

01:26:44.900 --> 01:26:49.160
used to be, but based on carrying
capacity to land, they're overpopulated.

01:26:50.230 --> 01:26:55.200
That has to do with geopolitical stuff
and farming and all that kind of stuff.

01:26:55.200 --> 01:26:56.300
And they have to manage to hurt.

01:26:56.600 --> 01:26:57.200
Interesting.

01:26:57.240 --> 01:26:58.710
And then you get the bad apples again.

01:26:58.710 --> 01:27:00.899
Like there are some fish and game
guys in one of the countries,

01:27:00.900 --> 01:27:02.290
they're poised on the water holes.

01:27:02.290 --> 01:27:04.490
And then it went and found all the ivory.

01:27:04.970 --> 01:27:05.670
They killed hundreds.

01:27:05.670 --> 01:27:06.769
Well, that doesn't help anybody.

01:27:06.769 --> 01:27:07.789
That's not conservation.

01:27:07.900 --> 01:27:07.969
I

01:27:08.249 --> 01:27:11.040
Travis Bader: was having sushi
with a, uh, a friend and.

01:27:11.945 --> 01:27:20.715
He's, um, uh, British individual has
a family over in, um, Zimbabwe and

01:27:21.225 --> 01:27:24.674
anyways, or he gets a text coming
through and looks, it makes a bit of

01:27:24.675 --> 01:27:26.835
a face and like, Oh, what's going on?

01:27:27.284 --> 01:27:28.465
Say, Oh, you don't want to see this.

01:27:28.755 --> 01:27:29.255
Okay.

01:27:29.775 --> 01:27:30.225
Yeah.

01:27:30.615 --> 01:27:32.335
You know what we do with
poachers over there?

01:27:33.005 --> 01:27:35.885
Anyways, they, they deal
with them rather harshly.

01:27:36.155 --> 01:27:36.395
Yeah.

01:27:36.395 --> 01:27:36.935
When I was

01:27:36.975 --> 01:27:39.865
Matt Siemens: both elephant
trips to the Zimbabwe, when

01:27:39.865 --> 01:27:41.585
I was there the week before.

01:27:42.235 --> 01:27:45.975
There were poachers shot in
the area by PHs and stuff.

01:27:46.015 --> 01:27:46.425
Just line

01:27:46.425 --> 01:27:46.955
Travis Bader: them up and take

01:27:46.955 --> 01:27:47.325
Matt Siemens: care of them.

01:27:47.475 --> 01:27:49.215
But Fish and Game have
no problem with that.

01:27:49.215 --> 01:27:51.105
National parks, what
they're called over there.

01:27:51.465 --> 01:27:54.055
But the police department
has serious issues with it.

01:27:54.215 --> 01:27:54.695
Interesting.

01:27:54.755 --> 01:27:55.045
Yeah.

01:27:55.235 --> 01:27:58.264
And even though that they, the one,
the one time that they were shot

01:27:58.264 --> 01:28:03.274
at first, they returned fire, but
it's, they, they don't deal with it.

01:28:03.374 --> 01:28:06.905
I have signs when we're going through
an area, don't get out of your vehicle

01:28:07.665 --> 01:28:08.895
because there's no hunting in the area.

01:28:09.720 --> 01:28:10.550
Travis Bader: You get out,
they're going to think

01:28:10.550 --> 01:28:11.110
Matt Siemens: you're a poacher.

01:28:11.180 --> 01:28:14.110
And it says right there, if you, if
you're out of your vehicle, you'd be

01:28:14.280 --> 01:28:15.730
dealt with as a poacher and shot in sight.

01:28:15.810 --> 01:28:16.040
Yeah.

01:28:17.950 --> 01:28:18.310
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:28:18.370 --> 01:28:21.009
It's just a different world than
what we're used to over here.

01:28:21.030 --> 01:28:21.839
And poaching

01:28:21.839 --> 01:28:24.119
Matt Siemens: there is what's
killing African wildlife.

01:28:24.140 --> 01:28:25.120
It's not the hunters.

01:28:26.920 --> 01:28:28.450
Travis Bader: Well, what's
driving the poaching, obviously

01:28:28.450 --> 01:28:29.530
there's a market for it, right?

01:28:29.620 --> 01:28:30.129
Matt Siemens: There is.

01:28:30.130 --> 01:28:30.360
Yeah.

01:28:30.390 --> 01:28:33.050
If there was no market for it,
they wouldn't be going after,

01:28:33.050 --> 01:28:33.820
they wouldn't be doing it.

01:28:33.820 --> 01:28:34.110
Right.

01:28:35.475 --> 01:28:35.805
Travis Bader: Huh.

01:28:37.355 --> 01:28:39.065
Well, um, what else?

01:28:39.125 --> 01:28:40.475
Anything else we should be talking about?

01:28:43.655 --> 01:28:46.565
Matt Siemens: Oh, there's so much stuff
that we start going down these rabbit

01:28:46.565 --> 01:28:48.005
holes and stuff and Cape Buffalo.

01:28:48.005 --> 01:28:51.375
Travis Bader: There's, uh, uh,
they're on the big five, aren't they?

01:28:51.465 --> 01:28:51.705
Yep.

01:28:51.795 --> 01:28:53.505
Matt Siemens: I shot a
Cape Buffalo in March.

01:28:53.595 --> 01:28:54.015
Okay.

01:28:54.315 --> 01:28:58.145
Past March with my son and distance
on that, uh, about 70 yards.

01:29:00.950 --> 01:29:05.860
And it was, I practice, I'm on it,
shoot as fast as I can, but everything

01:29:05.860 --> 01:29:10.580
in Africa bites you, the bugs, the
trees, and I got tangled up in the

01:29:10.730 --> 01:29:14.490
bush right in front of me and it grabs
onto your skin and incredibly painful.

01:29:14.830 --> 01:29:17.350
And the time I got cleared,
the Buffalo had run 10 yards,

01:29:17.350 --> 01:29:18.610
turned back, I'd run another way.

01:29:19.300 --> 01:29:20.900
So I hit him on the other side, almost.

01:29:21.465 --> 01:29:23.935
Exactly mirror image of the other side.

01:29:24.305 --> 01:29:26.455
And he went into this real
thick stuff and piled up.

01:29:27.115 --> 01:29:30.305
So then he, I was, we were walking up to
him and I see his tail was still moving.

01:29:30.305 --> 01:29:34.065
So then I gave him two more with
a 458 and that was all she wrote.

01:29:34.795 --> 01:29:38.935
And that's a hunt that was great to
do with, with my son, but it's a hunt.

01:29:38.975 --> 01:29:42.895
And another one of my hunts, I never
thought I'd be able to do on my income.

01:29:42.895 --> 01:29:43.185
Right.

01:29:43.695 --> 01:29:47.135
So that hunt, like trying
to run things down.

01:29:47.135 --> 01:29:47.765
I was serious.

01:29:47.765 --> 01:29:48.475
I had a budget.

01:29:49.485 --> 01:29:51.945
I reached out to three people
I knew in the industry.

01:29:52.485 --> 01:29:53.975
Hey, I want to do a Cape Buffalo hunt.

01:29:54.385 --> 01:29:55.465
What can you do it for me?

01:29:56.595 --> 01:29:58.365
Two guys came back with,
what's your budget?

01:29:59.565 --> 01:30:01.235
And the next guy came back with a price.

01:30:01.645 --> 01:30:02.737
So I went, I

01:30:02.737 --> 01:30:02.964
Travis Bader: went.

01:30:02.965 --> 01:30:03.795
I'm not giving you my budget.

01:30:03.815 --> 01:30:06.825
No, because whatever,
whatever it is, it'll be more.

01:30:06.865 --> 01:30:07.085
Yeah.

01:30:07.115 --> 01:30:08.045
It'll be at or more.

01:30:08.065 --> 01:30:08.345
Yeah.

01:30:08.605 --> 01:30:09.935
So you're in luck.

01:30:09.935 --> 01:30:10.975
It's exactly that amount.

01:30:10.975 --> 01:30:11.185
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

01:30:11.185 --> 01:30:14.055
It's just like, I remember watching
one of the duck commander guy and

01:30:14.065 --> 01:30:16.815
Phil Robertson was talking about when
he bought his first lathe, he went

01:30:16.815 --> 01:30:18.734
to the lathe shop and I got 30, 000.

01:30:18.735 --> 01:30:19.435
Well, you're in luck.

01:30:19.615 --> 01:30:21.035
I have one here for 30, 000.

01:30:21.645 --> 01:30:23.075
So I am.

01:30:24.005 --> 01:30:28.045
I did that and it was a
great hunt, great memories.

01:30:28.055 --> 01:30:32.025
My son shot two head, shot
an ostrich and a warthog and

01:30:32.025 --> 01:30:33.235
he had to hunt hard for them.

01:30:33.985 --> 01:30:38.195
And even this quote unquote high fence,
I didn't think he was going to get them.

01:30:38.495 --> 01:30:38.835
Really?

01:30:38.875 --> 01:30:39.065
Yeah.

01:30:39.315 --> 01:30:39.685
Like it

01:30:39.685 --> 01:30:40.135
Travis Bader: was.

01:30:41.135 --> 01:30:43.325
So what would happen if they
got rid of that hunting?

01:30:43.915 --> 01:30:45.924
Matt Siemens: All the
game has to be euthanized.

01:30:45.925 --> 01:30:47.125
Like it doesn't get let go.

01:30:47.545 --> 01:30:50.945
So like with, if South Africa finally
shuts down their lion hunting, they have

01:30:50.945 --> 01:30:52.905
all these lions behind the Hiawatha wire.

01:30:52.905 --> 01:30:56.505
And some of these farms are 75, 000
acres plus, and people think the anti

01:30:56.505 --> 01:30:58.895
hunters, well, we're going to show
the hunting and save these lions.

01:30:58.945 --> 01:30:59.335
Yeah.

01:30:59.415 --> 01:31:01.335
No, they're going to kill the lions.

01:31:01.745 --> 01:31:03.425
The lions have to be euthanized.

01:31:04.055 --> 01:31:05.675
So you're not saving

01:31:05.675 --> 01:31:06.185
Travis Bader: anything.

01:31:06.765 --> 01:31:10.875
They just can't put the captive
lions out into the wild?

01:31:10.915 --> 01:31:11.065
No.

01:31:11.525 --> 01:31:14.035
Matt Siemens: Even though there
has been cases where they will

01:31:14.035 --> 01:31:15.615
survive and we'll, we'll breed.

01:31:16.005 --> 01:31:20.735
No, they have to be euthanized for case
in point, uh, the guy was hunting with

01:31:20.735 --> 01:31:26.915
us in March, his, the property next door
sold, and there were 75 bounty buck on it.

01:31:27.335 --> 01:31:31.155
And bounty buck looks very close to
a Blesbuck, but there are sighties,

01:31:31.175 --> 01:31:33.275
endangered animals, dangerous species.

01:31:34.405 --> 01:31:37.815
So the other property owner said to
my buddy, you can have them for free.

01:31:38.135 --> 01:31:41.565
You had to pay to catch them and
you can put them on your farm.

01:31:42.635 --> 01:31:44.005
The government said no
one killed them all.

01:31:44.700 --> 01:31:45.190
Really?

01:31:45.220 --> 01:31:45.480
Yeah.

01:31:45.580 --> 01:31:48.450
So like, like there's no
rhyme, no reason to it.

01:31:48.830 --> 01:31:53.170
And why would you just
kill and bury 75 of these?

01:31:53.210 --> 01:31:53.920
No kidding.

01:31:54.310 --> 01:31:55.600
Even if they weren't endangered.

01:31:56.030 --> 01:31:58.190
Travis Bader: Well, what would
the economic outcome be if

01:31:58.190 --> 01:32:00.700
they got rid of these hunts?

01:32:00.940 --> 01:32:01.350
Oh, it'd be

01:32:01.500 --> 01:32:03.860
Matt Siemens: for the South
African farmer and hunter.

01:32:03.870 --> 01:32:04.330
Huge.

01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:08.540
Like it's some of these guys
only, it's such an industry

01:32:08.540 --> 01:32:10.750
down there that it's, it's huge.

01:32:10.750 --> 01:32:13.310
And the vast majority of
outfitters are doing it, right?

01:32:13.780 --> 01:32:16.650
Some guys are doing it for pretty small
pieces of property, like we talked about.

01:32:16.660 --> 01:32:19.280
It's not my cup of tea,
but there's some places.

01:32:19.840 --> 01:32:25.160
For instance, my buddy in Namibia,
where I hunt, he has his farm separated

01:32:25.160 --> 01:32:26.700
to North and South across the highway.

01:32:28.050 --> 01:32:32.610
His property, his fence line, I think
is 13 kilometers by 17 kilometers.

01:32:33.090 --> 01:32:36.520
Like we aren't talking 40 acre plots.

01:32:36.550 --> 01:32:36.950
Right.

01:32:37.010 --> 01:32:37.910
It's big enough there.

01:32:37.910 --> 01:32:41.110
If you walked onto there and you
didn't have water and you got

01:32:41.110 --> 01:32:42.730
lost, you'd be in serious trouble.

01:32:42.800 --> 01:32:43.440
Travis Bader: Right.

01:32:45.280 --> 01:32:45.580
Decent

01:32:45.580 --> 01:32:46.040
Matt Siemens: size.

01:32:46.090 --> 01:32:46.370
Yeah.

01:32:46.420 --> 01:32:50.870
It's like I said, I, I, I'm not a
high fence guy, but the spirit of fair

01:32:50.880 --> 01:32:53.110
chase does come into play down there.

01:32:54.240 --> 01:32:57.010
Travis Bader: So do you get to go
hunting with other people from work?

01:32:57.710 --> 01:33:00.020
Matt Siemens: Yeah, I'm
on the lion hunt in March.

01:33:00.040 --> 01:33:01.380
Um, my boss is coming with me.

01:33:02.090 --> 01:33:02.470
Nice.

01:33:02.480 --> 01:33:02.860
So.

01:33:03.610 --> 01:33:03.990
Travis Bader: Nice.

01:33:04.010 --> 01:33:06.840
So full support for why you're
not going to be at work.

01:33:07.880 --> 01:33:08.230
Oh, yeah.

01:33:09.050 --> 01:33:09.340
Yeah.

01:33:09.760 --> 01:33:13.240
Matt Siemens: So he's looking for,
he's looking for a good male lion too.

01:33:13.240 --> 01:33:14.530
We'll see, we'll see
what we can come across.

01:33:14.530 --> 01:33:14.790
Travis Bader: Right.

01:33:14.940 --> 01:33:15.540
Interesting.

01:33:15.860 --> 01:33:18.570
Oh, it'd be interesting to see
how that, uh, that works out.

01:33:18.570 --> 01:33:19.690
Love to hear the story on that.

01:33:20.860 --> 01:33:21.310
Um, yeah.

01:33:22.665 --> 01:33:23.835
What else, anything else?

01:33:25.205 --> 01:33:26.575
Trying to think of the list we discussed.

01:33:27.145 --> 01:33:31.755
Oh, we got some stuff about, uh,
you got SCI, uh, First Safari, um,

01:33:35.705 --> 01:33:36.395
um,

01:33:39.955 --> 01:33:43.245
yeah, you know, talk, you've talked
about ballistics there a little bit and

01:33:43.245 --> 01:33:49.045
you're, you're, um, and that, that's
something that you, you're dealing

01:33:49.045 --> 01:33:52.654
with the general public mostly with
your, uh, with Korth group there or.

01:33:52.655 --> 01:33:52.845
Yeah.

01:33:52.845 --> 01:33:55.585
Matt Siemens: Well, I generally
deal with accounts directly, but

01:33:55.595 --> 01:33:58.765
the consumers would get ahold of me
sometimes and I steer them in the right.

01:33:59.310 --> 01:34:03.040
Right direction and get them
looked after if they have issues

01:34:03.080 --> 01:34:04.820
and try to educate people.

01:34:05.910 --> 01:34:10.990
But the biggest thing is like, we can
do a whole, whole talk just on this is

01:34:11.120 --> 01:34:13.750
what people consider a bullet failure.

01:34:14.330 --> 01:34:18.650
And you killed the animal,
you shot in the right place.

01:34:18.650 --> 01:34:19.240
It died.

01:34:19.780 --> 01:34:23.900
The bullet came apart while,
okay, did it really fail?

01:34:24.950 --> 01:34:27.620
It's, I mean, when you go back to the.

01:34:29.180 --> 01:34:33.920
Weatherby cartridges, which were
developed long time ago and they're still

01:34:33.920 --> 01:34:36.280
holding their edge, like velocity wise.

01:34:36.320 --> 01:34:38.760
And they're still right up in the
top, even with today's standards.

01:34:39.470 --> 01:34:41.720
Roy Weatherby wanted
that bullet to blow up.

01:34:42.500 --> 01:34:42.840
Okay.

01:34:42.860 --> 01:34:46.110
He believed in the hydrostatic
shock theory, goes in and comes

01:34:46.110 --> 01:34:48.920
apart, massive damage, shock power.

01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:49.270
Right.

01:34:49.430 --> 01:34:51.190
And that's what he
believed in way back then.

01:34:51.610 --> 01:34:54.880
And so guys are shooting the modern
Weatherby cartridges or the Weatherby

01:34:54.880 --> 01:34:58.840
cartridges, the 300 Weatherby, and which
came out in the forties, I believe.

01:34:59.470 --> 01:35:02.120
And they're putting these controlled
round controlled expansion bullets

01:35:02.120 --> 01:35:05.570
in them and having great success,
but that's contrary what Roy wanted.

01:35:06.460 --> 01:35:10.420
But there's, well, what I'm trying to
say there, it's there's two schools

01:35:10.430 --> 01:35:11.480
of thought and they both work.

01:35:12.970 --> 01:35:14.750
Travis Bader: What are the
biggest education pieces that

01:35:14.760 --> 01:35:16.180
you typically have to deal with?

01:35:16.210 --> 01:35:17.620
And how do you guys tackle that?

01:35:18.960 --> 01:35:23.860
You educating consumers, you
educating the, uh, uh, the retailers.

01:35:23.990 --> 01:35:25.000
We'll, we start with

01:35:25.000 --> 01:35:27.600
Matt Siemens: the
retailers, but we will do.

01:35:29.265 --> 01:35:31.945
Like we've been at some, at some
of the trade shows and hunting

01:35:31.945 --> 01:35:33.485
shows with our booth there.

01:35:33.485 --> 01:35:35.225
And we're there to talk
to people firsthand.

01:35:35.985 --> 01:35:38.875
And we love video displays sometimes,
depending what the comments and we'll

01:35:38.875 --> 01:35:40.405
have people from the factory come up.

01:35:40.985 --> 01:35:45.695
It's funny, you can have a guy who
works at Hornady in Nebraska, come

01:35:45.695 --> 01:35:46.965
up and tell a person something.

01:35:47.625 --> 01:35:51.215
And they'll means a whole lot
more coming from him than me.

01:35:51.675 --> 01:35:52.315
Sure.

01:35:52.425 --> 01:35:54.195
Even though that guy sits behind a desk.

01:35:54.365 --> 01:35:55.015
Sure.

01:35:55.095 --> 01:35:57.765
But it's just because of
the credibility thing.

01:35:57.765 --> 01:35:58.035
Right.

01:35:58.075 --> 01:35:58.265
Yeah.

01:35:58.265 --> 01:36:01.295
And so that always helps, but no,
we'll, we'll get with the, with

01:36:01.305 --> 01:36:05.515
the dealer, try to educate them
and we'll do events with them.

01:36:05.525 --> 01:36:07.915
I'll what we call PK
product knowledge sessions.

01:36:08.535 --> 01:36:09.335
I'll go in.

01:36:09.740 --> 01:36:13.230
Usually right time to close
and go over with employees and

01:36:13.660 --> 01:36:15.130
have a chat and go over stuff.

01:36:15.140 --> 01:36:17.600
And they'll ask questions and
we'll explain why we do this,

01:36:17.620 --> 01:36:22.160
why it's this and how it competes
with our competitors or, and

01:36:22.160 --> 01:36:22.910
Travis Bader: that kind of stuff.

01:36:22.910 --> 01:36:23.190
Right.

01:36:23.450 --> 01:36:26.240
You know, there's never going to
be an end to people modifying or

01:36:26.240 --> 01:36:29.614
doing things differently than what
the manufacturer intended it to.

01:36:30.135 --> 01:36:30.405
Yeah.

01:36:30.785 --> 01:36:33.405
I haven't been through a number
of the different manufacturers

01:36:33.455 --> 01:36:35.405
courses and programs.

01:36:35.405 --> 01:36:36.295
It's always neat.

01:36:36.315 --> 01:36:38.665
The things that you pick up
that you thought were maybe, uh,

01:36:38.715 --> 01:36:42.195
they didn't realize are actually
design features because he didn't

01:36:42.195 --> 01:36:43.805
know the proper way to use it.

01:36:44.205 --> 01:36:48.880
Um, I can see the education piece
being a very valuable, both sales

01:36:48.880 --> 01:36:52.620
tool, as well as, uh, uh, ensuring
that people are getting the most

01:36:52.620 --> 01:36:53.800
out of whatever product they

01:36:53.800 --> 01:36:54.330
Matt Siemens: have.

01:36:54.520 --> 01:36:54.700
Yeah.

01:36:54.700 --> 01:36:57.450
I was shocked at how many
people don't focus binoculars

01:36:57.450 --> 01:36:57.930
Travis Bader: properly.

01:36:58.120 --> 01:36:58.430
Okay.

01:36:58.430 --> 01:36:59.140
Talk me through it.

01:36:59.610 --> 01:37:03.090
Matt Siemens: Well, you have your,
your main focus, then you have your

01:37:03.620 --> 01:37:05.650
diopter, which adjusts the one eye.

01:37:06.430 --> 01:37:09.640
And, um, so when you're looking
through, you, you pick up, pick out

01:37:09.640 --> 01:37:11.880
an object, uh, you're in a store.

01:37:11.880 --> 01:37:15.880
So obviously pick up that stop sign
across the street, put the lens cap on.

01:37:16.735 --> 01:37:20.935
The right eye focused your
left eye with the main focus.

01:37:21.605 --> 01:37:23.075
Close that one, open the right.

01:37:23.095 --> 01:37:24.895
Now adjust the diopter and the same thing.

01:37:25.925 --> 01:37:29.635
And, uh, so you're focusing each eye
individual, but you have your diopter

01:37:29.635 --> 01:37:34.195
you're focusing, and then your focus,
your course focus are set up the same.

01:37:34.715 --> 01:37:37.835
Most people have both eyes
open and they're focusing, oh,

01:37:37.855 --> 01:37:39.445
sorry, focusing, hitting that.

01:37:39.465 --> 01:37:43.235
Or they squint with one eye, but
when you squint, your body changes.

01:37:43.375 --> 01:37:45.375
Travis Bader: What if he, what
if he said the diopter first?

01:37:45.780 --> 01:37:49.540
Well, it doesn't matter, probably
your way is better because then,

01:37:49.540 --> 01:37:50.730
you know, at least you've got a,

01:37:51.330 --> 01:37:54.060
Matt Siemens: I, I, maybe the way I do it
is backwards supposed to do the diopter

01:37:54.060 --> 01:37:59.840
first, but along as, long as you're
doing it both individually with the lens

01:37:59.840 --> 01:38:02.610
cap on the, on the optic or covered.

01:38:02.690 --> 01:38:04.490
So you're not squinting
with both eyes open.

01:38:04.750 --> 01:38:05.290
It's going to give you the

01:38:05.290 --> 01:38:06.090
Travis Bader: best performance.

01:38:06.310 --> 01:38:06.740
Awesome.

01:38:06.770 --> 01:38:07.160
Okay.

01:38:07.170 --> 01:38:12.170
So diopter first and the other side,
but I might try the, try it doing, okay.

01:38:12.200 --> 01:38:12.530
I mean,

01:38:12.540 --> 01:38:15.120
Matt Siemens: and it's, I was
taught, the guy who taught me.

01:38:15.585 --> 01:38:18.885
Well, sitting in a PK, he
said, this is how you do it.

01:38:18.905 --> 01:38:21.345
And you know, human nature,
that's what I was told.

01:38:21.345 --> 01:38:22.045
So that's the right way.

01:38:22.055 --> 01:38:22.385
It doesn't

01:38:22.385 --> 01:38:22.955
Travis Bader: mean it was.

01:38:23.005 --> 01:38:25.705
Well, if that's what the manufacturer
designed it, you might as well

01:38:25.705 --> 01:38:27.365
try using it the intended way.

01:38:27.885 --> 01:38:28.225
Matt Siemens: Yeah.

01:38:28.785 --> 01:38:31.325
Like as a rep, I get
things wrong sometimes too.

01:38:31.335 --> 01:38:31.455
Right.

01:38:31.655 --> 01:38:33.175
So he could have had it backwards too.

01:38:33.175 --> 01:38:37.775
And, and, but it, it makes a huge
difference on focusing it that

01:38:37.775 --> 01:38:38.015
Travis Bader: way.

01:38:38.165 --> 01:38:38.735
No kidding.

01:38:39.575 --> 01:38:40.995
What about, uh, scopes?

01:38:40.995 --> 01:38:44.235
If you put too much, you know, a lot of
PRS shooters will put their hand over top

01:38:44.235 --> 01:38:45.765
of the scope and when they're shooting.

01:38:46.755 --> 01:38:52.195
I've watched videos that, uh, MDT has put
out about pressure testing on barrels.

01:38:52.355 --> 01:38:53.555
What if you press on the scope?

01:38:53.595 --> 01:38:54.785
Is that going to make a big difference?

01:38:57.895 --> 01:38:59.515
Matt Siemens: Maybe in
laboratory conditions, but

01:38:59.525 --> 01:39:00.785
I can't see it in the field.

01:39:00.825 --> 01:39:01.205
Okay.

01:39:01.275 --> 01:39:04.975
Um, I know when you're resting your,
resting your rifle on something, you

01:39:04.975 --> 01:39:06.435
want it on the forearm, not the barrel.

01:39:06.865 --> 01:39:08.105
That's going to affect harmonics.

01:39:08.105 --> 01:39:12.075
And all these things, I know what drives
me nuts when you see guys carrying their

01:39:12.075 --> 01:39:13.715
rifle by their scope, like a handle.

01:39:14.425 --> 01:39:15.225
It's not a handle.

01:39:15.225 --> 01:39:18.076
It's don't use it as such.

01:39:18.076 --> 01:39:19.027
Note to

01:39:19.027 --> 01:39:21.879
Travis Bader: self, stop
carrying rifle by scope.

01:39:21.879 --> 01:39:23.304
It's, uh, it's

01:39:25.165 --> 01:39:26.835
Matt Siemens: yeah, there's
so much stuff out there that.

01:39:27.425 --> 01:39:30.655
I still will find myself using
incorrect terms, even though.

01:39:31.375 --> 01:39:33.915
Like I'll be talking to people and
I start talking, I use the term

01:39:33.915 --> 01:39:35.055
gather light, like we spoke earlier.

01:39:35.055 --> 01:39:35.385
Sure.

01:39:35.385 --> 01:39:41.555
It's not, it's, it's transmit and it
focus lights and all that kind of stuff.

01:39:42.105 --> 01:39:44.865
But Leupold's put a lot of
stuff, money into training us.

01:39:45.815 --> 01:39:48.875
They have a range out
down in central Oregon.

01:39:50.095 --> 01:39:54.155
I can't remember if it's 2, 300 meters
or 2, 600 meters, but it's a ways.

01:39:54.165 --> 01:39:55.895
It's well, well past the mile.

01:39:56.605 --> 01:39:59.165
And, uh, they have us lined up there.

01:39:59.910 --> 01:40:03.830
With all our competitor
scopes and our line.

01:40:04.310 --> 01:40:07.030
And then you get there before sunup.

01:40:07.990 --> 01:40:10.920
And as soon as you can start,
as soon as you can start, you

01:40:10.920 --> 01:40:12.330
can see, you can start shooting.

01:40:13.410 --> 01:40:16.540
And then the same thing in the evening
when you shoot till you can't see.

01:40:16.660 --> 01:40:17.020
Right.

01:40:17.440 --> 01:40:21.900
And there's two optics that are
consistently the first one shooting and

01:40:22.280 --> 01:40:23.480
consisting of the last two shooting.

01:40:24.170 --> 01:40:24.630
Interesting.

01:40:24.640 --> 01:40:28.380
And Leupold's one of them with
their new light system with the

01:40:28.380 --> 01:40:30.210
new lenses and they've put stuff.

01:40:30.210 --> 01:40:34.590
And there's some, we've got some great
competitors out there and we've got

01:40:34.590 --> 01:40:37.600
some competitors that aren't so great.

01:40:39.240 --> 01:40:40.530
Travis Bader: I think the
biggest thing that makes her

01:40:40.530 --> 01:40:41.870
company is the people behind it.

01:40:41.950 --> 01:40:42.240
Yeah.

01:40:42.500 --> 01:40:42.850
Yeah.

01:40:43.140 --> 01:40:44.730
Matt Siemens: And it's still
a family owned business, fifth

01:40:44.730 --> 01:40:46.050
generation, fifth generation.

01:40:47.150 --> 01:40:50.540
And when we do these tests and
when they do the, the punisher

01:40:50.540 --> 01:40:53.900
test, the impact test, they don't
go take a scope off the floor.

01:40:54.565 --> 01:40:57.095
They run down to the local
sports shop and buy everything.

01:40:57.105 --> 01:40:58.955
Even the loophole product
they buy off the shelf.

01:40:59.005 --> 01:40:59.325
Yeah.

01:40:59.345 --> 01:41:00.915
So it is a true test.

01:41:01.455 --> 01:41:02.105
Very cool.

01:41:03.995 --> 01:41:06.905
Travis Bader: I was just thinking of,
uh, you know, if there's education

01:41:06.905 --> 01:41:11.445
pieces, maybe we, uh, create little,
uh, short education content that'll get

01:41:11.445 --> 01:41:15.305
people out there using products properly
and, uh, or maybe that's something

01:41:15.305 --> 01:41:17.175
that, uh, Korth is interested in doing.

01:41:17.645 --> 01:41:19.385
Matt Siemens: Yeah, we,
we've talked about that.

01:41:19.405 --> 01:41:22.115
And it's always, always intend to do it.

01:41:22.125 --> 01:41:23.755
And then the next thing you
know, a year's past, right?

01:41:23.765 --> 01:41:23.835
Yeah,

01:41:24.175 --> 01:41:24.745
Travis Bader: shot again.

01:41:24.745 --> 01:41:26.505
And everyone's ramping up
for that and then dealing.

01:41:26.795 --> 01:41:30.185
Matt Siemens: But it's funny, like this
industry back to A type personalities.

01:41:30.905 --> 01:41:37.145
Um, I was at a event with Rob Furlong
and he was talking to a guy about

01:41:37.155 --> 01:41:41.675
shooting and about shooting down
here, uphill and how the range finder.

01:41:45.035 --> 01:41:49.105
And this guy looked at Rob, he goes, well,
obviously you haven't shot very much.

01:41:49.105 --> 01:41:50.625
He goes, because the bullets defy gravity.

01:41:50.625 --> 01:41:51.345
Nothing happens.

01:41:51.985 --> 01:41:53.835
And Rob, Rob goes, yeah, I'm just new.

01:41:53.835 --> 01:41:54.465
I'm just learning.

01:41:55.845 --> 01:41:59.385
And I, I always thought like, why
didn't you put that person in his place?

01:41:59.395 --> 01:42:00.305
He goes, what's it going to change?

01:42:00.305 --> 01:42:00.805
Yeah, exactly.

01:42:01.525 --> 01:42:01.765
Yeah.

01:42:01.815 --> 01:42:05.635
So here's a guy at this time, at this
point, I think Rob was still number

01:42:05.635 --> 01:42:07.285
two in the world for, for length.

01:42:07.785 --> 01:42:10.850
Here's a guy, Talking to him, like
doesn't have, uh, doesn't have

01:42:10.850 --> 01:42:11.880
a clue what he's talking about.

01:42:12.010 --> 01:42:12.420
Yeah.

01:42:13.050 --> 01:42:13.970
Talking down to him.

01:42:13.970 --> 01:42:17.190
And if you only knew, if you only knew
who he was talking to, but you can't,

01:42:18.210 --> 01:42:19.470
Travis Bader: you can't help some people.

01:42:19.480 --> 01:42:23.560
You know, sometimes it doesn't
rise to the dignity of a response,

01:42:23.900 --> 01:42:24.200
Matt Siemens: right?

01:42:24.440 --> 01:42:29.970
And it's no matter what you tell people,
people, some people just want to complain,

01:42:30.120 --> 01:42:31.630
want to find something to argue about.

01:42:31.730 --> 01:42:32.000
Yep.

01:42:32.060 --> 01:42:37.110
And they don't quite listen to what was
said, or they take it as a absolutely

01:42:37.130 --> 01:42:38.890
every scenario, this is how it works.

01:42:38.890 --> 01:42:40.090
And it doesn't, there's too many variables

01:42:40.090 --> 01:42:40.520
Travis Bader: in this stuff.

01:42:40.860 --> 01:42:44.720
Yeah, you know, I've spent some
time with Rob in the past and,

01:42:44.720 --> 01:42:47.030
um, you know, good, good fellow.

01:42:47.060 --> 01:42:50.110
Definitely knows what he's talking
about when it comes to, uh, shooting.

01:42:50.910 --> 01:42:55.610
I remember I was at SHOT Show one
time and I'm at the, um, uh, AI booth

01:42:55.730 --> 01:42:59.390
and there's a fellow there who's
really looked like he was dyed black

01:42:59.390 --> 01:43:00.760
hair, really dark hair, looked like.

01:43:01.320 --> 01:43:02.370
You could smell it on him.

01:43:02.370 --> 01:43:05.750
He was giving her the night before
tattoos up one arm down the other.

01:43:05.980 --> 01:43:07.570
He's just standing there in the AI booth.

01:43:07.570 --> 01:43:10.140
And I'm looking at, I think
there is some, uh, packs, maybe

01:43:10.140 --> 01:43:11.380
they're ever, ever really sock.

01:43:11.410 --> 01:43:12.790
Maybe I forget what it was.

01:43:12.790 --> 01:43:16.950
And he comes up, he's like, Oh, I'm
doing some, um, uh, pack design.

01:43:17.400 --> 01:43:18.030
Oh, okay.

01:43:18.090 --> 01:43:24.210
And he's like, yeah, no, they,
they wanted my input on this stuff.

01:43:24.250 --> 01:43:25.640
Oh, are you with these people here?

01:43:25.680 --> 01:43:27.180
Well, no, no, I'm not with them.

01:43:27.700 --> 01:43:28.270
Okay.

01:43:28.410 --> 01:43:28.670
Right.

01:43:28.730 --> 01:43:31.660
And we had this little conference,
very awkward conversation.

01:43:32.640 --> 01:43:35.340
Basically he's like,
don't you know who I am?

01:43:35.910 --> 01:43:36.080
Right.

01:43:36.320 --> 01:43:41.179
So the guy who was Craig Harrison,
who took the, he took the, right.

01:43:41.180 --> 01:43:45.385
And, um, and, You know, he was, he
was looking rough, maybe from the

01:43:45.705 --> 01:43:49.305
last night in Vegas, probably going
out with all the other, uh, industry

01:43:49.305 --> 01:43:51.085
reps and then taking them out.

01:43:51.125 --> 01:43:52.025
But I had no clue.

01:43:52.075 --> 01:43:55.485
I've seen pictures of him, like
he's fully, he had shirts on,

01:43:55.485 --> 01:43:56.945
his beret and everything else.

01:43:56.945 --> 01:44:00.285
And he looked to this
guy was like, like, okay.

01:44:00.285 --> 01:44:03.115
So, and he was talking about the
rifles a little bit and like,

01:44:03.115 --> 01:44:06.275
oh, so you're, you're, you're
in the manufacturing of these.

01:44:06.305 --> 01:44:07.135
Oh no, no, no, no.

01:44:07.655 --> 01:44:09.425
And he skated all around the issue.

01:44:09.425 --> 01:44:09.795
Yeah.

01:44:10.245 --> 01:44:13.045
If he said, Hey, I'm Craig Harrison,
I would have known who he was, but

01:44:13.225 --> 01:44:17.475
we just had this probably about a 10
minute long, very awkward conversation

01:44:17.475 --> 01:44:19.195
where he left like, Oh, I guys.

01:44:20.115 --> 01:44:23.445
So probably maybe similar to
the whole Rob for a long one.

01:44:23.615 --> 01:44:23.855
Well, it's

01:44:23.855 --> 01:44:26.575
Matt Siemens: one of the things that's
like most things when the people.

01:44:27.980 --> 01:44:29.240
People have to tell you what they've done.

01:44:29.720 --> 01:44:30.410
They probably haven't done

01:44:30.410 --> 01:44:30.600
Travis Bader: it.

01:44:31.600 --> 01:44:31.920
Yeah.

01:44:31.950 --> 01:44:34.050
Or maybe they're just, you
know, surrounding themselves

01:44:34.050 --> 01:44:35.040
with the wrong type of people.

01:44:35.040 --> 01:44:37.790
I clearly didn't recognize
him out of uniform and all the

01:44:37.790 --> 01:44:41.040
rest and not diminishing what
he's done or his achievements.

01:44:41.040 --> 01:44:42.800
And, you know, he's
had a rough go as well.

01:44:42.810 --> 01:44:46.310
Afterwards, there's some pretty difficult
things that he had to, uh, work through.

01:44:46.310 --> 01:44:50.340
And that's, um, but, uh, Yeah.

01:44:50.650 --> 01:44:50.900
Yeah.

01:44:50.900 --> 01:44:53.350
You know, sometimes it's better just to
keep your mouth shut and be thought a

01:44:53.350 --> 01:44:56.160
fool and to open it and remove all doubt.

01:44:56.170 --> 01:44:56.350
And

01:44:56.660 --> 01:44:58.620
Matt Siemens: that's just like,
sometimes like when I'm in a

01:44:58.620 --> 01:45:00.050
situation, someone's talking, I'll.

01:45:00.765 --> 01:45:01.995
Sit there and think, should I interject?

01:45:01.995 --> 01:45:04.815
And I don't, and I regret
doing it, but then when I do,

01:45:04.815 --> 01:45:05.985
it's like I shouldn't have.

01:45:05.985 --> 01:45:07.305
And then you really regret it, right?

01:45:07.305 --> 01:45:07.365
Yeah.

01:45:07.365 --> 01:45:10.680
It's like, so it's keeping your mouth
shut, like you say, just Mm-Hmm.

01:45:11.155 --> 01:45:12.355
it goes a long way sometimes.

01:45:12.360 --> 01:45:18.815
So I like to sit and listen and, um,
hear people talk and social media's

01:45:18.815 --> 01:45:21.725
and thing out, watch these chat
rooms and stuff and people discussing

01:45:21.725 --> 01:45:22.955
stuff and it's like, yeah, I know.

01:45:22.955 --> 01:45:23.705
You dunno what you're talking about.

01:45:24.045 --> 01:45:24.375
Yeah.

01:45:24.435 --> 01:45:26.805
But it's, you get in there
and try correcting it.

01:45:26.865 --> 01:45:28.575
It just, it goes nowhere.

01:45:29.145 --> 01:45:32.355
And it just digresses and this
raises your blood pressure.

01:45:32.355 --> 01:45:33.425
Nothing else seems to happen.

01:45:33.425 --> 01:45:33.615
Right.

01:45:34.495 --> 01:45:36.295
Travis Bader: It's all about
finding the right group of people

01:45:36.295 --> 01:45:39.095
that you're going to surround
yourself with, who value your time.

01:45:39.095 --> 01:45:43.275
And you don't have to get into the, the
convincing, you know, I, I guess it's

01:45:43.275 --> 01:45:46.185
difficult when you're really passionate
about something and you see things.

01:45:46.885 --> 01:45:51.225
The consequence of not stepping in
and saying something would just be the

01:45:51.225 --> 01:45:55.715
continuance of that ignorance, or at least
less openness to that way of thinking.

01:45:55.985 --> 01:45:56.475
But generally

01:45:56.475 --> 01:45:58.475
Matt Siemens: speaking, no matter
how well versed you are in this,

01:45:58.485 --> 01:45:59.545
you learn something every day.

01:46:01.895 --> 01:46:06.235
Even from people who don't know a fraction
of what you know, but they might know

01:46:06.235 --> 01:46:11.695
something that you don't, and you listen
to them and it can go a long ways.

01:46:12.485 --> 01:46:13.845
Travis Bader: There's always
something that you can pick out.

01:46:13.845 --> 01:46:17.345
And even if you think it's a little
offside, go give it a shot or

01:46:17.345 --> 01:46:20.325
do your own research and find it
out before jumping on the person.

01:46:21.815 --> 01:46:22.235
Nice.

01:46:22.675 --> 01:46:25.615
Well, why don't we take a
look at wrapping it up here?

01:46:25.665 --> 01:46:31.955
We can, we can, um, uh, look at
future, future educational type things.

01:46:32.245 --> 01:46:32.865
Absolutely.

01:46:32.885 --> 01:46:35.235
As we work through, because I
think that's, I think that's

01:46:35.235 --> 01:46:36.335
a really important part.

01:46:36.345 --> 01:46:38.415
I mean, we're not going to convince
people listening to this at

01:46:38.415 --> 01:46:41.385
Africanadu is great or terrible.

01:46:41.515 --> 01:46:44.905
We're not going to convince people of, uh,
different politics that they're already

01:46:44.905 --> 01:46:48.205
set in a certain way, but Hey, maybe some
people are going to be able to use it.

01:46:48.505 --> 01:46:51.485
Their, uh, binoculars a bit
better moving forward, right?

01:46:51.705 --> 01:46:53.975
Or understand the high
twist rate on their, um.

01:46:54.450 --> 01:46:56.510
ELDX bullets and what's happening there.

01:46:56.610 --> 01:46:59.750
Matt Siemens: You know, I mean, long
people listen to each other and, and

01:46:59.850 --> 01:47:05.000
we start working together as that's,
I mean, that gets beat like a dead

01:47:05.000 --> 01:47:06.720
horse, but it's, we still have the same

01:47:06.720 --> 01:47:07.100
Travis Bader: issues.

01:47:07.100 --> 01:47:07.350
Right.

01:47:07.710 --> 01:47:08.110
Yeah.

01:47:08.460 --> 01:47:08.760
Yeah.

01:47:08.760 --> 01:47:11.860
And I think that just comes down to what
you're saying before, maybe keep our mouth

01:47:11.860 --> 01:47:17.120
shut a little bit, take a listen, see
where it's at and we find the correct way

01:47:17.120 --> 01:47:18.810
or the correct audience that we, I mean,

01:47:18.810 --> 01:47:19.890
Matt Siemens: everybody has their passion.

01:47:20.920 --> 01:47:23.180
And like living in the
States for as long as I did.

01:47:23.190 --> 01:47:25.720
A lot of people like sitting
in a tree stand with a bull

01:47:25.720 --> 01:47:26.930
waiting for a deer to walk by.

01:47:27.630 --> 01:47:31.190
I can't think of a bigger waste
of time personally, but I will

01:47:31.200 --> 01:47:32.410
fight for their right to do that.

01:47:32.410 --> 01:47:32.630
Right.

01:47:32.640 --> 01:47:33.240
A hundred percent.

01:47:33.240 --> 01:47:33.450
Yeah.

01:47:33.500 --> 01:47:35.230
I mean, it's what they
have, it's what they do.

01:47:35.230 --> 01:47:36.340
And they love it.

01:47:36.370 --> 01:47:37.460
And yeah, exactly.

01:47:37.470 --> 01:47:37.570
Yeah.

01:47:37.640 --> 01:47:38.800
Some people get the sheep bug.

01:47:38.930 --> 01:47:39.300
Yep.

01:47:40.060 --> 01:47:42.490
I, I've shot sheep, but I
never got the sheep bug.

01:47:42.730 --> 01:47:43.030
Yeah.

01:47:43.140 --> 01:47:43.610
So.

01:47:44.565 --> 01:47:45.935
Yeah, that's nothing wrong with it.

01:47:46.565 --> 01:47:49.205
It's everybody has their own
passions and you've got to follow

01:47:49.205 --> 01:47:50.465
Travis Bader: those whole different world.

01:47:50.505 --> 01:47:54.165
And is looking down at the other ones who
are doing the exact same thing as you just

01:47:54.165 --> 01:47:56.455
in a different way is not helping anybody.

01:47:56.465 --> 01:47:56.765
No.

01:47:57.715 --> 01:47:59.655
Well, Matt, thank you
so much for having me.

01:47:59.945 --> 01:48:13.034
Matt Siemens: Really enjoyed this.