You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Oh, my God.
what is up everybody and welcome to the
united states department of nerds where we
are for the people by the people and
of the people some creators chase the
industry others build their own from the
indie boom of the to today's creator
driven comic renaissance one publisher
never stopped telling stories not for
trends and not for algorithms
They kept doing it for the love of
the medium.
This is more than comments.
This is legacy.
Tonight, we are joined by Lynn Mihalovic.
Mihalovic.
Yeah, I was close.
That's okay.
creator and publisher behind Linovations
Press,
a boutique indie comics imprint built on
passion, persistence,
and storytelling that spans decades.
This is a conversation about longevity,
creativity,
and what it really takes to build
something that lasts in indie comics.
The Council of Nerds is now in session.
Lynn, welcome to the USDN.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
and i apologize for your name i am
not a name person i i try my
damn this though i was practicing before
we we got started and before you had
popped in i'm like i'm gonna say it
like this and if it's wrong it's wrong
and apologize about it so somebody who
calls himself the chairman and doesn't use
his real easy to pronounce name okay hey
the chairman is a character that's all i'm
saying all right
But, uh,
so take us back to the early nineties
and what got you doing,
what created innovations press?
Well, okay.
Um, I have problems editing my story,
but I'll try.
Um, so way back, way back when, um,
I always been a comic fan,
sent in stuff.
I won a Marvel No Prize.
Just a big,
big super fan all my life as a
kid growing up, whatever.
Then all of a sudden,
I turned a magic age,
I went whitewater rafting.
I went doing all kinds of dangerous
things.
And I'm like, you know what?
I want to try this whole comic writing
thing.
So it's like every senior graduating
college, I'm like, here I am, world.
I'm ready to do it.
And you just get slapped in the face
because you're like, you know,
get out of here, kid,
because everybody has tried this before.
And you're just one of many.
I started collecting all my rejection
letters.
I have my one from Marvel on my
website, actually.
But I sent submissions to everybody.
I wanted to be a comic writer.
That's what I wanted to do.
This is going to be fun.
I know so much about it.
I know the whole history of Marvel, DC,
you know, Archie,
whoever's going to hire me.
I was ready to write some stories.
And I got rejection letters from all of
them.
But it wasn't until I got the one
from Dark Horse that was that really
resonated with me because it was an editor
who took some time,
took the form letter and wrote on the
other side of it.
Some suggestions that I should do said,
you know, my samples were decent.
I've never been published by anybody else.
So, of course,
they wouldn't want to take a chance on
me.
OK.
Yeah.
So that was that was a valid thing.
And she said to get published like
anywhere that you could just just write,
just write, get published,
work with editors, get better at it.
So I did all kinds of zines and
fan fiction and things like that.
I got picked up by the Comic Buyer's
Guide,
which was a comic newspaper back in the
day.
And I wrote a couple of articles for
them.
I wrote something for a collect magazine.
I wrote something for Indie Magazine.
I wrote a feature there.
So there were a lot of things that
I wrote.
And then I'm like, you know what?
I'm going to take the second part of
her suggestion,
and I'm going to make my own comic
series,
and I'm going to start shopping it.
And I'm not going to shop it to
Marvel or DC.
I'm going to shop it to these smaller
publishers.
So way back when we had that comic
buyer's guide,
which was a comic newspaper that came out
every week,
little publishers would take out ads in
there, you know,
pitching their books and everything.
So I collected all these little publishers
and I started sending out my samples of
a series I created called Section Twelve
to them.
And the first one I sent out to,
you know,
Dilemma Productions out of Springfield,
Massachusetts,
about two hours away from my house.
He called me.
He's like, I want to do this.
He goes, I'm doing a book right now.
And he goes,
I want to do this one, too.
I can't afford to do both.
So we're going to put it together.
We're going to make an anthology.
You know, I'll take half your story,
half my story.
And we'll and we're in this together.
And I'm like, absolutely.
This is great.
The guy's name was Mike Kelleher.
And he he works for Marvel, D.C.,
all kinds of places right now.
But at the time,
he was just self-publishing his book,
Legend Killer.
We had Section XII on the other side.
He called it Dilemma Presents.
It was one of those black and white
flippy books.
Very indie.
And they're still out there on eBay if
you want to find them, folks.
It ran for four issues before it got
shut down by all of the...
all of the stuff that was happening back
in the nineties with comic publishers.
So after that,
I had met during the convention trail,
this guy called named Phil Miller.
And he was a really nice guy.
I met him up in Utica.
and i'm like i really want to work
with you as an artist you're fantastic i'd
love to see how you draw section twelve
he drew a story for me it was
wonderful and i'm like okay we're gonna
we're gonna have this as number five of
dilemma presents and mike's like no we
can't do that
So then I was able to cut a
deal with a company in Canada called
Mythic Comics,
and they picked up Section XII as a
full feature.
So Phil redrew the first issue of Section
XII.
It looked beautiful.
It became their bestseller.
It got that diamond spotlight or whatever
in the catalog.
Everybody loved it.
And then...
Mythic had to close doors because Marvel
bought distributors and if you didn't use
their distributor,
if you weren't Marvel or DC,
they weren't going to distribute the Indy
Comics.
So an Indy Comics publisher who's not able
to get to the store at the time,
it was just the kiss of death.
So we walked off into the sunset with
a lot of those stories,
never seeing the light of day.
So flash forward,
life happens to two thousand fourteen.
I'm working my real job.
I fly on a plane every week.
This is where the story gets really crazy.
I fly on a plane every week.
I'm one of those people who I work
on.
I work from Monday to Thursday off site
and then I fly home.
So I'm on the same plane every week.
commuting at this time I was commuting to
the Midwest and it happens that this guy
was on the plane and he was taking
up all the overhead space and it was
because he was pushing his way in front
of line and he was just getting there
first and I'd have to check my bag
every time because it's like I only carry
this one little backpack but he had four
suitcases and I'm like why are they
letting this guy carry four suitcases and
And I knew him because he wore a
ridiculous looking tracksuit that he
traveled with him.
So I was like, okay,
I'm going to get there at five in
the morning.
And just out of spite,
I'm going to stand right by the gate
the entire time for this, you know,
for this six thirty flight.
And I stood there for an hour and
a half.
And the gate agent said, okay,
anybody with any disabilities or anything
that needs to board first?
So this guy fake limps up there,
fake limps past the gate agent and then
runs down the jet by laughing.
And I was like, okay.
I'm putting this on social media.
I got to tell the world about this.
I did.
Week after week,
it was something different.
He would do something else to get on
the plane first.
He would foil me,
and he would get on the plane first.
One week,
he pretended he was the wheelchair guy,
and he pushed this woman with a wheelchair
onto the plane with him.
He pretended he knew her.
I was like,
wow, this is all really happening.
And I have photos of it and I'm,
I'm putting it on social media and my
following is growing.
And all of a sudden, you know,
people are asking my wife in the preschool
pickup line,
like what did tracksuit man do this week?
And what did tracksuit man do that week?
and so here i am now it's two
thousand fourteen and my my buddy mike
kelleher is like you know you should do
comics again because you just had a
perfect story fall on your lap make this
into a comic story and i'm like okay
so i took all of the social media
posts and looked at them and said okay
this can be a page and this can
be a page and so on the left
i would have the
the visual representation of it and on the
right i'd have everybody's comments which
were hilarious so that was tracksuit man
and
a funny thing happened when I did that
comic because as a writer,
I didn't really have a lot of skills.
So I had to go find an artist.
I had a, you know,
I had learned how to digitally color and
letter.
So I was able to do that.
I was a,
I had a printer who helped me with
all the pre-press stuff.
So I got it all.
I got it all together.
I printed it out.
It looked like a great book.
And then my comic friends started to come
back out of the woodwork.
I'm hearing from Phil Miller.
I'm hearing from Mike Keller.
And they're like,
let's do this let's make comics again
let's put section twelve back up and i
was like okay you guys want to do
this we'll we'll make uh we'll make
section twelve so we did we had all
these great stories from the nineties that
that never saw print so the question with
section twelve became
What do we do?
Do we do what everybody does?
And do we do we just rewrite everything
so that it's going to happen in twenty
twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen at
this point?
Or I said, no,
I think it's going to be cool if
we do if we set the whole thing
in nineteen ninety four and we keep it
in nineteen ninety four.
And then the other voice in my head
said.
But GPSs and cell phones and stuff like
that are cool too.
And I'm like, yeah, they are.
So what if we set the story in
the modern day
And I'm like, you know what?
I'm a little publisher.
I can do them both.
So I have both.
So I expanded my timeline by I did
all the nineteen ninety four stories that
I had in inventory.
And then I created another one in the
modern day where there's this team of
people that are looking for the section
twelve technology because it's all
futuristic, even even in two thousand.
that we're at at this point.
And they want to find all that technology
and it's valuable to them,
but it's all gone.
So it's a very interesting series because
I have to find a plausible way to
make things that were.
Twenty,
twenty two years ago at this point come
up.
In a plausible way that they can be.
that they can have survived.
So just as an example,
in the first issue,
we found this woman hires this guy who's
going to be one of the Section-XII new
team,
and he is paid to clear out a
widow's basement because she's moving to
Florida,
while all these boxes have the Section-XII
logo because her late husband was a
hoarder, and he worked at Section-XII,
and he was stealing stuff from the...
from the installation.
So he has all this top secret tech.
Sorry,
my head just went to Johnny Cash working
at the Cadillac plant and stealing all the
Cadillac parts.
Yes, exactly.
So that was one thing.
And then I had another where a guy
was in a coma for twenty years and
he woke up and he was nonverbal,
but he's painting pictures of what he saw
in section twelve and the logo was all
over the place.
So there's another plausible way.
So just just an example.
I had a lot of fun with a
storage locker that was prepaid for twenty
years and then got opened up and auctioned
off with a reality TV show.
Yeah.
And so so that was that series has
been a lot of fun and it's really
caught on.
We just we just released section twelve
declassified where the team finds a clue
and it takes them to a renaissance fair.
And I won't spoil it any more than
that.
So yeah.
It's really fun.
But the classic series is the one that
I love.
Section twelve is a top secret government
installation that keeps scientific
failures out of the public eye.
So every time something fails,
science wise, catastrophically,
they call this special team of superheroes
in that are all inmates of section twelve
because they were all parts of failed
experiments and their job is to cover
everything up so we have a we have
a lot of fun covering everything up and
recently people have been asking me so i
have started combining them into um not
quite graphic novels i call them mega size
comics so it's the first four issues of
section twelve
um paperbacks yeah yeah yeah it's it's
still in the floppy format it's you know
but
cause it's a little more inexpensive for
people that way, but it's like, it's nice.
Um,
and we've had a lot of success with
those.
So it's, um, because I'm,
I'm running out of the,
the original print runs.
So rather than, uh, reprinting a second,
a second run, I decided to, um,
make these mega size ones because I can
add some director's cut kind of stuff in
there.
And, you know, So,
You just basically answered a whole lot of
questions all at once, which is – No,
hell no, dude.
That is – I love that kind of
stuff.
When I could just ask a question and
just let the person go,
it makes for a whole lot of less
editing and stuff like that later.
So for me,
it's like ask a question and let them
go.
All right.
But let me see.
How far did you go?
Let's see.
So let's talk about section twelve.
Yeah.
Let's go back to the nineties for a
second because the nineties scene,
the birth of image,
the birth of image mirage was still
around.
Marvel DC was trying to do everything in
its power to stop the images and the
mirages and the black horses and those
types of people from Marvel.
being able to get their books into stores
that's well it's well known that's well
known history that that's what they were
doing but from an indie perspective a pure
indie perspective what was that like
watching image be born mirage and all
these other companies being born at the
time despite what marvel and dc were
trying to accomplish on their side and
then you
Like, hey,
I'm going to make comics now and kind
of jumping into the midst with the big
boys before some of them became big boys.
So I'll jump into my,
so you want to get into comics school
speech for a second.
I'll take a paragraph out of that.
No, dude, I love that.
Go for it.
Okay.
So publishing in the twenty-first century
was a lot different than publishing
public than it was in the twentieth
century.
So in the twentieth century,
a lot of publishers had things in black
and white just because it was so cost
prohibitive to do printing.
Digital printing wasn't really a thing.
You had to do the four color offset
stuff and that meant you were either
getting a thousand or two thousand copies
of something and you were going to have
them sitting in your garage when you sold
twenty, thirty copies a show.
at two or three dollars a piece.
The numbers didn't work well.
So it was tough.
You put in your
book was more like a magazine because you
put it in and for a month you
had some great sales you had sales from
diamond you had sales from capital city
you had sales from hero's world and they
would order you know twelve hundred books
fifteen hundred books things like that all
you had to do was show up in
the catalog and these indie friendly
stores would would get if you had a
good cover and a good description you'd
get the orders and that that was great
and that's exactly what you were saying
that
you know,
DC and everybody else hated because,
you know,
all you had to do was show up.
Um, and it was a lot of fun.
We, we got out there,
we got back then you've got fan letters.
We got fan letters from all over the
world.
It was great.
We, um, we got a call from, um,
and this is really aging me,
but we got a call from a company
in New Jersey that was filming a movie
about two comic creators that fell in love
and they wanted to have people be extras
in that movie.
And this director was a fan of our
comics.
So he had called my publisher and asked
if he and I would be willing to
drive down to Red Bank,
New Jersey and be extras in the movie,
Chasing Amy.
so it was like yeah we got to
spend the weekend that's really cool ben
affleck and you know we were in this
creepy hotel in new jersey and you know
they're all creepy in new jersey yeah it
looked like something out of shining um
yeah you know the good version of the
show oh i know which one you meant
yeah to me there's only one yeah so
it was like wow it was so much
fun hanging out with these guys for the
weekend and there were all kinds of indie
guys there um you know
And it was incredible.
So you were featured in Stan Lee's How
to Draw Comics.
Yeah.
How was that moment for you?
It was a Christmas present from Mike
Kelleher.
Mike was working with Stan Lee on how
to draw comics.
And he,
Stan and Mike were looking for something
that was a good...
good powerful page one image that was in
black and white that was a recognizable
indie comic because you know Stan was
doing this outside of Marvel so you know
and
The mind came up and Mike is like,
I know this guy.
Well, I can I can get this.
So it was it was Phil Miller's
illustration from from Section twelve,
which is in Section twelve flashback
number one.
And it was a fantastic illustration.
And it and it was in there and
it was in the in the section on
scanning and digitally cleaning up images,
you know, when they start with and they,
you know,
They got my permission.
They took it through the scan to the
digital cleanups and all of that.
So it was it was fantastic.
I did not get a Stanley nickname.
Mike did.
He's mighty.
Mike, tell her I did not get one.
I was a little jealous, but yeah.
It was great.
I met Stan once at a convention.
I never got to really work with him
much on that,
but Mike traded a lot of emails with
him.
He was corresponding with him a lot.
He said it was a great experience.
It's still I think I don't think I
know for a fact I had that book
in the nineties growing up.
Yeah.
And I wish I still had it to
this day because I remember getting it at
a bookstore because I was really big into
drawing.
I was trying it anyway.
I was never very good at it.
But it was just one of those where
it was a Stan Lee thing.
So it was one of those where I'm
like,
Stan Lee's going to tell me how to
draw comic books.
And I'm like, that's cool.
I want that.
And I remember getting it,
taking it home and trying to practice,
probably tracing the pictures from the
book.
So who knows?
I probably traced your... You might have,
yeah.
That's really cool, man.
As I was creating this interview over
here,
that was one of those where I was
like,
I have to tell him that because it's
so cool that you were featured in it.
I used to trace pictures out of that
thing like it was going out of style.
I'm pretty sure that was one of those
books where
i had some espn like comic books from
the nineties too where i probably just
wore right through the staples and
everything i traced out of it so much
just trying to learn how to do shading
and drawing and line work and like i
said i never got good at it but
it was i just i loved it you
know
We were in Borders one time,
a friend of mine and myself.
And I don't know,
he was ragging on me like, oh,
you wrote a comic book.
You know, good luck having it in here.
And I said,
I'll bet you dinner that I can find
my name in this bookstore.
And he's like, oh, yeah, right.
And then I went right over and they
had that book.
The deck was loaded because I knew they
had the book.
And I just opened it up.
I opened up the index and I'm like,
OK, here you go.
free dinner let's go yep exactly so what
sparked the creation of lenovations press
in which is just the coolest name ever
by the way because you literally got to
take the first part of your name and
just like add ovations in it and boom
yeah that's why it's called jay leno's
garage now because i got the domain first
uh
That's why the show is called Jay Leno's
garage They did contact me for it.
But no, um,
I I in another life I was a
web designer and I needed a cool name
and that was what I came up with
and Then at in twenty fourteen tracksuit
man was only gonna be a one-shot,
you know I'm you know,
I Want to prove that I can do
this thing.
So what do I call it?
Exciting comics good comics,
you know fun comics
Lenovations Press.
Okay.
You know,
because I already had the Lenovations logo
from the website and all of that stuff.
So I said, okay,
it's going to be Lenovations Press.
If I had known that it was going
to, like, turn into something,
I probably wouldn't have named it after
myself,
because there's a lot of other people that
are involved.
But here we are.
Hey, you know, it sounds cool.
It rose off the tongue really good.
So, I mean, hey.
Yeah.
But let me ask,
what does boutique publishing mean to you?
Because I love that word,
boutique publishing.
It just sounds fancy.
Again, we get together and we talk,
and it's kind of like –
I don't do Kickstarters because I have
this thing about holding on to somebody
else's money and making promises and
things like that.
So that's not my model.
My model is...
I go out there, I publish.
I have three or four sites that either
do fulfillment and do printing or that I
sell through.
I sell digital copies.
I sell print copies.
I have a stock here.
that i um do i do shows not
just comic shows i'll do you know fan
shows media shows craft shows sometimes i
do things events at schools i do you
know things at libraries so there's a lot
of things that i do um and how
do you what word brings all of that
eclectic stuff together you know and i
think a boutique publisher because
Yeah, I'm not in a lot of stores.
I'm in a couple of stores locally where
I can sign stuff, but that's about it.
Because I never went the diamond path,
which in twenty fourteen was really weird.
And everybody said, oh, good.
You didn't.
Yeah.
Don't do the diet.
You know,
don't do this without the diamond path
because you'll starve.
And I said.
through social media,
through the internet,
through just getting the word out,
I can make enough to cover what I
need to do.
And I have.
And it's like one comic funds the next.
And that's how this is all built.
So yeah, I'm not rolling in.
I'm not acting like a lottery winner.
But it's like it's paying for itself,
which keeps my wife happy.
And that's the important part, right?
Exactly.
So so that pays for itself.
But but little else.
So I thought boutique was really a good
word because think of a small specialty
shop that you would go in,
which is the only place that you can
go and buy something.
You know,
it's it's available some other places,
but, you know, not widely.
So so that's what we are.
We're a boutique publisher.
No, I like it.
And like I said.
Linovations Press, Boutique Publishing.
You've gotten these words that just roll
off the tongue just so well.
It is great marketing, too.
So, I mean... But no, hey,
if you're ever...
You need somebody to come do a show
with you, I know a couple of things.
I know enough to get me into some
trouble.
I love Mass.
Mass is so fun to be up there.
When it warms up.
We have a lot of fun at shows.
Yeah.
But...
When you say we don't chase volume,
we create something worth collecting.
It's another one of those sayings that you
have and I really like.
What is that?
Okay.
So I'm not looking to... Again,
me trying to edit my stories.
So when I delved into...
Public domain and golden age characters.
I was like, wow, this is great.
Here's all this content.
I could put out so many books just
by reprinting, you know,
all of these old Western stories,
these horror stories,
these superhero stories,
all of this stuff that's in the public
domain.
And I'm like,
I started reading it and I'm like,
I know why these books were canceled.
I'm sorry.
They're horrible.
So why should I devote my time, money,
and resources and that of the people that
work with me on a project that I'm
not excited about?
So I made a rule that we don't
publish something unless we're excited
about it.
So what you read is a fancy way
of saying we don't half-ass it.
You know,
I'm not putting out a book just to
say I put out more books.
So to brag,
I just sent off to the printer today,
book number forty and forty one from
Lenovations Press,
which we've been around a little over ten
years.
It's not it's not a startling number,
but I'm proud of it because a lot
a lot of indie creators don't get beyond
number five of
so you know yeah and i i interview
a lot of young kids coming up in
the in the industry right now and i
love talking to them i love to fill
their energy their excitement and we i was
just talking about this last night with
donald as well and it's like i hope
they have what it takes to make it
past that number you know they get to
two they get to three and then
the amount of work it takes to sustain
what they dream of.
I don't think that that's really caught up
to them yet.
And when it does catch up to them,
that's when you see the crash and burn.
Yeah, there's a,
there's a lot of crashes and burns.
Um,
Mega Size was born because everybody buys
the most recent one.
Everybody buys ones and twos.
What about three, four, five?
You know, when you start to get up.
I still got to bring them all to
shows.
But I'm going to.
You know what?
I call that the meat and potatoes of
any comic series.
That's the meat and potatoes.
Yeah.
So I was like, you know what?
By combining these into these little mini
graphic novels.
I don't have to carry as much stock.
And number three has just as much weight
now as number one, because it's in,
because it's, it's part of the same story.
It's in the same book.
Yeah.
So that's worked really well.
So you're in local shops up there.
So I need to feel that a lot
of local comic shops won't carry their
local comic book writers and artists.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's tough.
And the consignment thing is tough, too.
And I tell people this, you know,
because local shops, let's be honest,
it's not all brick and mortar store like
you see on TV or the movies.
Sometimes it's a guy at a flea market
that has a booth there every week.
you know yeah so it's stuff like that
too but what i've learned is if you're
going to consign things you have to visit
them often and you have to inventory often
because through you know it's not always
just one person working there and you know
through no fault of their own if you
leave if you leave twenty copies of
something there and they only have three
they're like oh
Who are you again?
I don't know.
We must have got these from somebody's
collection or something.
You have to keep renewing that
relationship.
That's a lot of work.
It really is.
I've definitely cut back on that because
I've been burned too many times.
I know...
There's some like Ray Raynett down in
South Florida drives like hours on end to
get to shops that will carry his product
on the shelves.
He has no problems doing that because he
has such a good relationship with that
shop, which is really amazing.
And I love to hear local comic shops
supporting their local artists and local
writers and local producers of comic
books.
When they have in-store sign-ins or
in-store promotions and stuff like that,
and they bring in the local people,
I always enjoy seeing that being done.
I just don't think it happens on a
scale that I wish it would.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Well,
part of it is not the store owner's
fault either,
because I've talked to a lot of store
owners about it.
They have these events and there's a big
store up by where Phil Miller lives.
And I'm like,
I'll do I'll drive up there anytime and
do a signing with him.
And, you know,
we have stuff coming out if you want
us on free comic book day or whatever.
And they're like,
not a lot of people show up.
And that's what happens.
I always also look at that as, okay,
where was the marketing from the LCS to
announce this thing was happening?
And it's a two-way street with that.
Mom and pop shops aren't going to do
what it takes to get that word of
mouth out there.
So if it doesn't do good that first
year they attempt it,
they're not going to come back a second
year to try it again because they wasted
money on the first year.
But
but did you market it the proper way?
And nine times out of ten,
the answer is no.
Yeah.
I did one about a couple years back
in Connecticut,
and the guy marketed it really well,
and it was a free comic book day
event,
and there were like fifteen of us there.
It was a mini comic show in the
back of his store,
because he had a huge store.
And it was like, I'm like, wow,
this is busy.
I made a lot of money.
I've connected with a lot of people.
And when you go to things like this,
to be clear,
When I say I made a lot of
money,
that just means that I got people
interested in my stuff,
which is really the goal.
It's not about the revenue that you bring
in.
It's about how many new readers are you
getting on board?
Because at the end of the day,
that's why we're making comics is for
people to read them and for people to
enjoy them.
And those people lead to clicks on the
website,
which lead to sales on the website,
which leads...
Yeah.
Our pockets being a little heavier.
And that's what you want.
And we were talking before we went live
about how many people cannot give that two
minute pitch on their comic book.
And it's their comic book.
Yeah.
So, well,
the other the other thing and I'll say
this for all these people that have a
problem with that at the show.
Just remember one thing.
OK,
if you can get the information in
somebody's hand,
if they're so so about it,
that doesn't mean just because they're not
buying it from you today doesn't mean that
they're not going to buy it from you.
The last comic show I went to,
I was packing up the car and my
phone started blowing up because people
were buying things that they, you know,
the show closed earlier than they thought
and they went on my website and went
out and bought it.
So that happens too.
Yeah.
So, fourteen years now,
what does it actually take to sustain a
publishing line over that long of a
timeframe from an independent perspective?
Five words.
Don't quit your day job.
That's why I have one.
That's why people are like, hey,
I shot you an email.
I'm like, yeah, I know you did.
I'll get to it when I get home.
Right.
Yeah.
Most of us do.
You know, big, big secret.
Most of us don't do this full time.
Can't do this full time.
Would like to do it full time,
but we don't.
Oh, yeah.
So.
There's so many people that I try and
counsel out of quitting their day job
because they think they think that this is
the path to success.
They think that this is going to make
them rich,
that they're going to be the next big
thing.
Much like when I got into writing,
I'm like, hey, world, here I am.
You know, it just doesn't work that way.
You have to take the ladder one rung
at a time.
And you're going to start from the bottom.
No matter how much you want to start
from the middle,
you're going to start from the bottom.
So what does it take?
It takes patience.
It takes a thick skin.
Just because people walk away from your
table at a show,
either rudely or not rudely,
You know, they're not rejecting you.
Sometimes people are not nice about it
either.
And they're like, oh, this sucks.
Or this is stupid.
Or I've seen something like this before.
it's used for people.
There's no more new comic book ideas out
there.
No, there's not.
It's been done in some way.
Everything is something else.
Yeah.
So, um,
one of the things that you have to
remember is sometimes it's not about you.
It's about them.
It's about they, we had,
we had an incident at a show, um,
last year where somebody came up and said
i could have done this better i i
draw better than this or i do that
i do better than this and it was
it was a little upsetting and hurtful the
way he was saying it so i talked
to the two guys that i was with
there and i said look i said this
this wasn't about you or your artwork at
all
it was about him feeling bad about himself
because he hasn't done this with his life
and he wanted to clearly so because of
that he makes himself feel better by
saying bad things about you and so you
have to have a little bit of a
thick skin and a little bit of a
patience to be able to understand that you
know some sometimes people just take it
out on you unfortunately and that's part
of being look facing you know
Because when you put your work out there,
it's a very personal thing.
And you're putting stories that you made
out there.
You're putting your work out there.
Not everybody's going to be gracious about
it.
And I feel that so much.
You're doing it too.
You have media.
It's just a different type of medium,
but it's the same thing.
And it's amazing to me the amount of,
I don't want to say it's hate.
It's just better or I should do this.
I'm like, hey, please, I encourage you.
If you need help, reach out.
I will help you get started in what
I do.
And I will give every tip and every
pointer and everything I've learned along
the way.
And if you're still around in a month,
hey, cool.
Yeah, it's it's not that easy.
And, you know,
not everybody has the patience to learn
something and develop it as a craft.
And I guess that's what it takes is
having patience, having thick skin,
having confidence,
being daring enough to put yourself out
there and wanting to learn and grow and
develop along the way.
And understand this stuff don't happen
overnight.
And when people go, oh, well,
you're making money.
Oh, no, I'm not.
Yeah.
And if I am making money off of
it,
it's off affiliate clicks from BCW and a
few others that I have.
Yes.
And, and oh, by the way,
for anybody out there,
whoever wonders like, oh,
how much does he get off a click?
Two cents.
Okay.
Yeah.
two cents and oh by the way i
don't even i can't even take out the
cash until i hit a certain dollar amount
which is it's the same with comic books
yeah it's the same with digital comic
sales it's like there's a certain amount
they take a commission after you take it
out yeah i know i mean if somebody
buys something from the site then yes i
do get a little bit more but it's
not that much more it's a couple of
bucks yeah but exactly
Exactly.
You have this affiliate thing and...
No,
all the subscriptions to the software that
you have to pay for and all of
that stuff, you know,
it's probably barely covering those costs.
They don't cover anything.
Okay.
There you go.
I literally just got it.
So it's one of those where I just
got this.
Hey, people,
go click this link and go buy stuff
from the website.
Get ten percent off, please.
And thank you.
And, you know,
it's like people are people in their head
have this certain thing.
Like it's a number in their head.
And for, in this instance,
it's ten thousand, right?
Yeah.
Ten thousand followers across your
platforms.
That's when they start to take notice and
start willing to be, hey,
you run my advertisements.
This is what I will pay you.
And I'm working toward that number right
now.
It's just not easy to do.
And people think, oh,
I'm charismatic and I'm this and I'm like,
hey, that's cool, man.
But can you market yourself?
Can you market your product?
Do your friends and family give a damn
what you're trying to do?
Will they support you in this?
Because all of that matters is do you
have that kind of support?
And thankfully,
I came into this with a support system
in place.
I have a lot of
people who are very smart and very
knowledgeable in this.
But the rest of it was up to
me.
Can I market this?
Can I get people willingly to come on
this podcast to sell people their
products?
And at the end of the day,
that's what I do.
I provide a platform for people to sell
their products on and to pitch themselves
to you for you to become a new
fan of them and vice versa.
and it's fun i don't care either way
i get to talk to to lynn here
i get to talk to donald last night
i get to talk to all these amazing
creators and get their stories out there
for everybody to hear and to listen to
and to enjoy as much as i enjoy
pulling the stories from people whether
it's a bridge the abridged version or the
edited version of the story right lynn
yeah
So this is what I tell my guys
and I'll tell you.
OK,
so this is because I think your your
show falls into the same category.
So when I create comics, I say,
this is my statue in the park.
This is what I'm famous for.
I've contributed something to pop culture
that is going to outlive me.
All right.
So, fifty years from now,
somebody will be looking with their
holographic, you know,
Apple Watch version.
And it'll display my comic book and
they'll be able to read it and scroll
through it like that.
And they'll be doing the same thing with
your podcast.
And, you know,
it's outlived us and it's amused somebody
else in the future.
So this is our this is our shot
of doing something to, you know,
make this pop culture of ours matter.
Yeah,
and what I always say is I'm giving
back to the industry that I love so
much, which is indie comic books.
And getting to talk to indie creators is
so fun.
And people,
if you're at a convention and you see
an indie comic book creator just sitting
there bored off his ass,
go get their story because their story is
going to blow you away with how this
happened.
The passion they bring to storytelling is
some of the,
the best energy that you could soak in.
And I get to do it so often.
And it's so fun for me to get
to do this and talk to people.
Like I can't explain how,
like the adrenaline rush i have sitting
here talking to people that goes well
after the show ends of course you know
you crash because you're riding that
adrenaline high you're gonna crash
eventually you're gonna sleep like a baby
but um but
So I got asked, though,
how do you decide which of your projects
will get made and like which artists are
collaborators that you work with?
Do you have like your little inner circle
there where you all get together on a
Zoom or whatever it is?
And we're like, no, what are we doing?
It's not like that at all.
It's been a lot of trial and error,
I'll be honest.
With Phil Miller, it's just a natural fit.
He's got that classic Silver Age style.
I don't know if you got a chance
to look at some of the comics.
I did get a chance to finally figure
out how to make the passwords and stuff
work,
so I was able to get my eyes
on a few of them.
Some of the links,
I would download the covers and they would
be this big,
so I would try to blow it back
up.
Yeah.
Make it something I could use and it
would just distort it so bad.
So I had to go to Facebook and
grab a couple from there.
I grabbed your,
the innovations press thing from there and
just use that to kind of advertise that,
Hey, you're going to be on here tonight.
And I use the same ones when I
go to make these clips as well.
Yeah.
We have two free comics online that you
can totally read.
I'm not looking for anybody's information
or anything like that.
So it's like you can just go read
them.
So that works out really well.
But Phil had that natural Silver Age style
for Section XII,
and it's just become the defining look.
So I was like, okay,
we're going to give you...
The Section XII flashback title is yours.
Nobody else is going to take it.
And that all...
Once upon a time,
we just did section twelve flashback and
section twelve declassified.
You know, we had two series.
We had the modern day.
We had the nineteen ninety four one.
I finally found a guy in the Philippines.
He was a artist for Upper Deck.
He was doing trading cards.
And I'm like, you know what?
If I give this guy the right direction,
I think he's he's got what it takes
to give us that modern day look.
And his name is Dominic Rancho.
And he
He's fantastic.
He does that.
So we'll,
we'll go on Facebook and we'll chat for
every once in a while.
Phil and I text, um, you know,
more than we actually talk on the phone,
but, um, you know,
those are the main two guys.
And then we have,
we've had a lot of people join us
over the years.
Um,
some of them stuck and some of them
don't, um, but that's okay too.
But, um,
We were we were sitting there and somebody
a lot of my stories start with somebody
came up to me at a show and
asked.
So somebody came up to me at a
show and asked,
is that all you do is section twelve?
And I said, well, I have tracksuit man,
too.
And they're like, well, that's one book.
And the secret of doing well at a
show is having having a lot of things
to sell to people.
If you have one comic you can expect
that somebody will come over to your table
and buy one comic They're not gonna buy
ten of the same comic So you can
if ten people come over to your table
You're going to make ten sales if you
you know,
if you sell your comic for five dollars
a piece You're gonna make fifty dollars
that day that that's just simple math.
Yeah,
so if you scale that up and you
have a
fifteen twenty twenty five comics at your
table then you know the numbers get a
little more real so i was looking at
phil and i was saying you know we
could do some other stuff and phil goes
i want to draw cowboys so i'm like
okay let me that's wild i just had
this conversation at my lcs with um
with the owner there.
And I forgot what comic book it was,
but I was like, dude,
we need more cowboy comic books,
like stuff like that.
Whether it's like a sci-fi type of Western
or just like apocalyptic type of Western,
something like that.
And then the following week,
no kidding to come out like two separate
ones.
I think one from boom studios and one
from a dark horse.
Yeah.
And I was just like, he was,
he was holding them up.
Like, yeah.
Two of them come out, dude.
He's like, I don't know what you did,
but two of them come out.
Yeah.
So I was looking at public domain stuff.
I think I mentioned that earlier on.
And I was kind of like, well,
you know,
maybe I can just do something with one
of these characters because it's free.
It's already established.
I don't have to craft this origin story.
So I found Red Mask from Magazine
Enterprises.
So I made Red Mask Rides Again.
And I did reprint the origin because the
origin story was decent.
And the whole thing of that book was
Tim Holt was a cowboy star and they
wanted to make him into a comic book
superhero.
But that's just, you know,
it ran for a number of issues,
but it was more Tim Holt centric than
Red Mask.
So I took the Tim Holt out of
it and I made Red Mask rides again.
Yeah.
and um it's it's a great comic it's
done well we're working on number two i'm
very excited about that and then the other
one i did was um wild west adventures
of buffalo bill and phil made a face
at me when i said that uh because
he's like i like the idea of the
red mask and i'm like okay i'll get
somebody else to do buffalo bill so i
found this guy with a very quirky and
unique art style alexander bosick he's
from um
Serbia,
and he does a great job on it.
And it reimagines Buffalo Bill.
Buffalo Bill had a Wild West show.
that was very famous, and that's all true.
But I changed it a little bit.
I made it into a traveling Wild West
show.
So now he goes around the Old West,
and he finds all of these things.
Now,
you're talking to a guy who doesn't like
Westerns,
so I wrote it more like that old
TV show, The Wild Wild West,
than I did the
you know yeah a western show so um
you know he he fights frankenstein he
fights remember that old john wayne movie
the war wagon oh yeah um yeah so
somebody somebody resurrected you know
what that reminds me of though is you
can still find them every now and then
and like dollar bins and stuff like that
but the penny dreadfuls oh right yeah
It was just a collection of stories like
that.
And then they made the TV series,
which is really fantastic.
I really love that TV series and was
sad when it ended,
but it ended on a good note and
in the proper way.
But I just think that's really cool.
That's like one of some of my favorite
types of stories where it's just fun and
it's quirky.
And why in the hell is Frankenstein's
muster in a Western?
Exactly.
So I did that and I thought, hey,
this is my chance because I love to
hide Easter eggs in stories.
I love to put hidden references in
stories.
And I'm like,
how many hidden references can I actually
put in there?
And this stuff is just full of it.
It was getting to be,
and I'm going to segue on to something
else now.
It was getting to be a bit cumbersome
having all of these Easter eggs and hidden
references because I'd have to burn so
many pages to tell people where they were.
So, you know, when you're telling a story,
pages are money.
And it's like,
I don't want to have eight pages of
exposition to say in the last issue,
did you see this?
Did you see this?
So I decided that I would follow in
your footsteps, before I even knew you,
to make a video and a video explainer
of that.
So I and I'm going to segue on
to another story about how I created my
own YouTube videos and things like that
and how I do it.
It's fairly unique.
I went in and I dressed up my
basement like a comic show.
So I had all my banners and I
had tables and everything and I did it
over there and I put my iPad up
and I'm like, okay, I'm going to record.
And I'm like, hi everybody, this is Len.
And I'm, you know,
I'm here to talk to you about the
Wild West Adventures of Buffalo Bill.
Did you see this?
And, and,
And I showed it to my kids and
you could hear them laughing from down the
street.
They said,
this is like you were taken hostage and
we have to buy your comic books to
get you free.
And so they just thought it was- I
actually kind of liked that concept.
Yeah.
So much for my video career.
I'm kind of like, okay,
I'm all done with this.
And that sat on the shelf for a
couple of years.
And I'm like,
I don't know how I'm going to get
it.
I'm just going to have to do like
a book or something with all the Easter
eggs in it or something.
I don't know.
I'm just going to put that on the
shelf.
So then you're going to hate this word,
but some of these AI programs came out.
So I was able to use an AI
program.
and manipulate it to the point where I
had two podcast hosts talking about my
comic book.
I fed it in all of the details.
I gave it every single Easter egg.
I gave it all of that.
And the banter that went back and forth
was what was missing.
So rather than hearing me drone on and
on about comics,
it really took just two people talking
about it to make the same content
interesting.
So I created Indie Comics Deep Dive with
Mona and Sam and Mona and Sam are
my virtual hosts and they go on and
they will tell you what all the Easter
eggs in Buffalo Bill number one are and
they will point it out and.
I like the concept.
I'm not a fan of AI,
but if AI is used ethically for the
right reasons, it could be... It's a tool,
right?
It is a tool.
I'm not ripping off any artists because
I'm using my own art.
Art that I...
that I either made or bought and paid
for.
So I have perfect,
I have perfect rights to use it.
I'm not saying like create an image of
Buffalo bill doing this, you know, it's,
it's all my own stuff in there that,
you know, has been bought and paid for.
So we have a lot of fun with
that.
And yeah,
Every comic will have its own show.
And like you,
it takes me a very long time to
do them.
I'm not as quick as you are.
But it's a lot of fun.
We have a small but mighty following.
When I stop doing them and I focus
on comics,
I start getting emails from people like,
when's the next show coming out?
So I know that there's some interest
there, which is great.
So it's...
I'm not in the podcast business per se.
I'm just in the business of promoting the
Lenovations Press brand.
It's another way of connecting with our
readers to give them a little bit behind
the scenes.
If it works, it works, right?
Do I want to see it in my
comic books?
Absolutely not.
But in the way you're doing it,
it's fine.
Is it hurting anybody?
No.
And if people are going, hey,
when's the next one?
You're probably on to something and you're
probably doing it right.
Yeah.
So what we're working on now is Mona
and Sam, the fictitious characters,
are going to have their own comic book
where they're going to interview all the
Lenovations Press characters on their
fictitious podcast show.
So how is that for three levels of
meta?
That's actually kind of cool.
It's a pretty cool concept, actually.
Yeah.
Where they're interviewing Wild West Bill
and, you know,
Tracksuit Man would be interesting.
Yeah.
Tracksuit Man is going to be on there
and Batter from Section Twelve and,
you know,
somebody else from Section Twelve and the
Fantastic Fanboys.
So there's a lot of there's a lot
of stuff that is going on.
So let me ask,
what do you think is the biggest mistake
indie creators are making?
I think you touched on it earlier.
I think that they are going to give
up too soon.
I think that if you...
one issue you print it you you lay
out a dozen of them on the table
why did i only make fifty bucks this
show because you only had one comic to
sell and you're you're getting ten bucks a
piece and only five people bought them um
so i think that they're you know they
pay a hundred two hundred dollars to have
a table of the show for the weekend
they don't sell a lot that's being
generous it could be more
yeah so they don't sell a lot they
don't make a lot and they give up
and they go on to something else and
they try something else and they try
something else like one of these is
magically going to hit and you got to
put in the work i mean it's it's
not i've been doing this for you know
over a decade now and i'm you know
yeah it pays for itself uh i'm not
super famous at it but it's like
You've got to find that it's rewarding for
its own sake.
Yeah.
So beyond Kickstarter,
because you've never used Kickstarter
yourself or Indiegogo or anything like
that.
Patreon.
I use Patreon.
Patreon is a subscription based because
they have a pay as you go model.
And that way people,
people can not only support me,
but they get, you know,
inside scoop on things.
I get,
I get them peaks every month on,
on artwork that's ongoing.
Like the text between me and Phil are
art based a lot.
And I'll just put those up on Patreon
and say,
this is what we're working on right now.
You know,
Um, so that's great.
And then I'll build them when a comic
comes out.
This was the last one that comes out.
And for the print customers,
if I'm mailing something,
I'm going to stuff something else in that
envelope too,
because it doesn't cost me any extra to
postage.
So I'm like, if I,
if I have another comic that I know
you don't have,
I'm going to stuff that in there too.
Oh, that's really cool.
Yeah.
So beyond that, um,
Where do you think creators should focus
their time beyond the Kickstarters and
beyond Indiegogos and that kind of stuff?
I know Patreon is a great asset for
people if they can use it correctly and
understand that.
Fifty dollars for a subscription to you to
post sneak peeks of your your work or
your writing, it's not worth fifty bucks.
I'm just putting it out there for people.
And I like to follow some creators on
there.
And if I see you're charging,
trying to charge me fifty bucks for and
you only put out one thing a month,
I'm not coming back to it.
No, of course not.
You're probably going to get a nasty gram
from me going bus for one post a
month.
No.
Yeah.
But, you know,
it's it's like and I'm I'm a big
proponent of the free memberships, too.
I mean,
we have more free people than anything.
And all you got to do is sign
up for free and you'll you'll see these
sneak peeks and these art art pics and
things like that.
So, you know, why not?
I'm not.
I'm not after anything other than
increasing the brand.
And I think that's what people should
focus on.
What's the best way you can increase your
brand?
Like Global Comics,
DriveThru Comics are two digital platforms
that I use.
Do I make a ton of money on
them?
No.
And it's because of how their model is
set up.
It's not that I'm not selling a lot
there.
It's just that they don't pay a lot.
Um, and,
and know that as you go in,
you know, it's, it's like, again,
you know, your penny a click,
you're happy to get the penny.
You're happy to get the click because,
you know,
it drives traffic around and that's what
you're here to do.
Um, but you know, is there,
if there were a magic way to do
this and be successful at it,
I'd already be doing it right now.
I wouldn't be trying.
Yeah.
So, and,
and now I'm going to segue again.
So if you read my comic book,
section twelve, flashback number one,
which is the story that started it all.
It's a cool twenty two page story about,
you know,
somebody who who turns into a monster and
gets abducted.
He's blackmailed into, you know,
working for a secret government project
that he finds out all about.
And then in the midst of it,
there's a prison break that he has to
help, you know.
That it has to help suppress.
Okay.
There's a lot that could happen in between
all of those scenes and all of those
panels.
And I wrote a book,
like a book book.
And it's just about that novel.
So imagine taking your favorite comic book
and blowing up that story and giving
characterization, giving pacing,
giving motivation,
giving the guards that walked by,
what's his story?
Is he afraid?
Does he have a backstory?
Does he have...
there's a lot more world building that was
possible so i i released my first novel
last year i'm working on my second one
um and i'm you know that's gonna be
another way to increase the brand you know
i i i took the ninety four timeline
and i and i put a a you
know present day timeline on top of it
as a way of stretching my world and
now i'm making it a little thicker by
putting uh novels together
So that's really cool.
And it's just another element to what
you're already doing with no real work
because everything is already there in
your head.
So I already have the outline.
Yeah, it's a printed comic.
So it's like, yeah.
So what's next for Lenovations Press and
what has you the most decided?
So I've already touched on it.
The novels have me excited because I think
that that's a future because it's a way
of introducing people into the brand that
wouldn't normally be there.
So in the last show,
I had a father that was looking for
a science fiction book and I had a
son who was younger who didn't want to
read the science fiction book,
but he was happy to read a twenty
page comic book.
So the comic book is the same story
as the novel.
So I sold the father of the novel
and gave the comic book to the kid.
And they were able to do that as
a father and son activity together.
And they really enjoyed it.
And the father could tell the son all
of the things that was happening in
between the panels.
So I think I really served the audience
that way.
That's a cool moment.
I like to do stuff like that.
The Mona and Sam podcast is like getting
out of control in the best way possible
because my last video was like, I'm like,
What do I get Phil Miller for his
birthday?
He's one of my best friends.
He's a great artist.
He doesn't need anything.
It's like, OK, I'll get him.
I'll get him a pack of pens or
something.
And I'm like, no,
I can just I'll just put all this
stuff through Mona and Sam's algorithm and
tell him it's his birthday and see what
comes up.
So we had a virtual birthday party for
Phil Miller on Thursday.
on the show and it was great he
had he had a show and they talked
about what they liked the best about all
of the art that i uploaded there and
their honest feedback about it and it was
a lot of fun so you know we
were able to take it in that take
the show in that direction which was
really cool and then we took um
You know, like I said,
we're making a comic book out of it
right now.
Our newest artist, Kevin Phillips,
is drawing it.
He's doing a fantastic job with it.
And it's just a lot of fun.
It's goofy.
It's really goofy.
But I think people are going to enjoy
it.
We also have a very aggressive,
and this is another one of my podcast
things where I had a lot of fun.
I kicked Sam off the show and Mona
and I did it.
So I recorded my voice along with the
AI host and we bantered back and forth
with each other about our twenty twenty
six schedule because I wanted to.
I started again.
I had that same moment.
I started reading the twenty twenty six
schedule into the microphone and I'm like,
this is so boring.
So then I loaded that recording into the
microphone and she came up with witty
banter as I was doing it.
So I just had to cut the audio
a little bit and it sounded like we
were hosting a show together.
That's really cool,
and it's really amazing what you can
actually do utilizing that tool.
Yeah.
But what do you think, Lynn?
Got another five to ten years in you
for the universe?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, we're going down swinging.
We have a lot of things planned.
We have some good storylines that are
going to finish with –
with section twelve and we have i i
do have a rule no more number ones
um we started tales of the unknown which
is a horror anthology um this month and
last year around this time we started
uneven ground which is a historical
fiction um which gives underserved moments
in history a chance
Right now I'm writing about the largest
mail truck robbery in history.
So I'm writing a story about that.
I wrote about a USO show that with
a downed helicopter in nineteen sixty
eight.
And then the first issue was a distant
relative of mine who was a freedom fighter
in Yugoslavia fighting against the Nazis.
That's really cool, actually.
So, Lynn,
you ready for some rapid-fire questions?
Sure.
Physical or digital comics?
Physical.
Which surprises even me.
I thought digital was really going to take
off more than it does.
Everybody likes digital.
I do, too.
People love digital, too,
but I'm a physical guy, man.
Something about holding it and the smells
and, yeah.
Favorite era of comics?
seventies okay yeah i mean that's really
where everything was really the modern day
stuff was born in that time frame so
indie or mainstream um it depends if you
go back in time and you ask me
i'm gonna say mainstream but now it's
indie i'm an indie guy all the way
so one comic every creator should read
Yeah, this is a loaded question, but,
you know,
it's like I've been working a lot with
Don Simpson.
I did his multi mentions book.
So so my characters got to cross over
with Megaton Man, which was fantastic.
I think everybody should read his Megaton
Man stuff because it's it's great parody.
It's great satire.
It's just a lot of fun.
And one mistake every indie creator should
avoid.
i think we've said it multiple times yeah
i think we have to um you know
don't give up um other other than that
um don't be surprised when you fail like
just because you have a kickstarter
doesn't mean you're gonna get funded
nailed it so lynn tell everybody now where
they can find you
Lenovationspress.com is where everything
is.
There's a link to,
you can read two of my comic books
for free.
You can read section twelve flashback and
section twelve declassified.
Absolutely free.
I'm not looking for your email address or
anything.
It's displayed right there on the screen.
You don't have to click through.
You don't have to fill out a form.
Um, we have everything for sale on there.
You don't have to try and track us
down at a show.
I'll combine shipping when I can.
If, uh,
the combo packages don't work for you,
just send us an email.
I'll make up a custom combo package for
you, whatever you need.
You can buy the novel there.
You can buy any of our books.
I'll throw some stickers in the envelope.
We'd love it if you join us on
Patreon.
Even if you join us for free,
you'll get to see some of those art
texts between me and Phil Miller.
That's always a lot of fun.
And, of course,
if you want to see Mona and Sam
in action, I've talked about them so much,
you can go to our YouTube channel and
check that out too.
I did see them, and I was –
At first,
I didn't realize what I was watching.
After a moment, I was like, oh, gotcha.
I'm like, I see you.
It's a really cool concept that I know
a lot of people are making use of
that kind of stuff,
but it's just kind of cool to see
it.
You're not using it in a nefarious way
at all.
It's just one of those,
you're doing something fun for your own
brand, which is really cool to do.
It promotes it better than I can.
And all these links will be in the
description of this podcast when it goes
live.
maybe Sunday.
I'm not for sure yet, but, but Lynn,
this has been an incredible conversation.
Hopefully everybody who listens,
learn something from this one.
Cause this was a really good one.
And, you know, it's just not,
it wasn't just about comics.
We had, this has been about persistence,
evolution and building something that
stands the test of time.
And we'll continue to stand the test of
time.
Cause you heard it first.
Lynn's got another good ten,
twenty years in it.
Yeah.
So for everyone watching,
make sure you check out Lenovation Press,
support indie creators and dive into these
stories.
They are amazing.
Section twelve to number ones are both
free.
And those were my favorite reads that I
got to do from his collection.
So but if you enjoyed this conversation,
make sure you like,
subscribe and share this episode with
somebody who loves indie comics.
And remember,
Indie Comets aren't just the future.
They're happening right now.
The Council of Nerds is now adjourned.
This has been the USDN Podcast,
where Indie Comets come to life.
Y'all be safe out there.