WEBVTT

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You are listening to the USDN on the

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DFPN.

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Oh, my God.

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what is up everybody and welcome to the

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united states department of nerds where we

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are for the people by the people and

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of the people some creators chase the

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industry others build their own from the

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indie boom of the to today's creator

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driven comic renaissance one publisher

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never stopped telling stories not for

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trends and not for algorithms

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They kept doing it for the love of

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the medium.

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This is more than comments.

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This is legacy.

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Tonight, we are joined by Lynn Mihalovic.

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Mihalovic.

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Yeah, I was close.

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That's okay.

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creator and publisher behind Linovations

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Press,

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a boutique indie comics imprint built on

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passion, persistence,

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and storytelling that spans decades.

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This is a conversation about longevity,

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creativity,

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and what it really takes to build

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something that lasts in indie comics.

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The Council of Nerds is now in session.

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Lynn, welcome to the USDN.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for having me.

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and i apologize for your name i am

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not a name person i i try my

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damn this though i was practicing before

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we we got started and before you had

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popped in i'm like i'm gonna say it

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like this and if it's wrong it's wrong

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and apologize about it so somebody who

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calls himself the chairman and doesn't use

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his real easy to pronounce name okay hey

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the chairman is a character that's all i'm

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saying all right

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But, uh,

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so take us back to the early nineties

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and what got you doing,

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what created innovations press?

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Well, okay.

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Um, I have problems editing my story,

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but I'll try.

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Um, so way back, way back when, um,

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I always been a comic fan,

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sent in stuff.

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I won a Marvel No Prize.

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Just a big,

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big super fan all my life as a

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kid growing up, whatever.

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Then all of a sudden,

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I turned a magic age,

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I went whitewater rafting.

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I went doing all kinds of dangerous

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things.

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And I'm like, you know what?

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I want to try this whole comic writing

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thing.

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So it's like every senior graduating

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college, I'm like, here I am, world.

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I'm ready to do it.

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And you just get slapped in the face

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because you're like, you know,

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get out of here, kid,

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because everybody has tried this before.

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And you're just one of many.

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I started collecting all my rejection

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letters.

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I have my one from Marvel on my

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website, actually.

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But I sent submissions to everybody.

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I wanted to be a comic writer.

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That's what I wanted to do.

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This is going to be fun.

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I know so much about it.

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I know the whole history of Marvel, DC,

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you know, Archie,

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whoever's going to hire me.

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I was ready to write some stories.

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And I got rejection letters from all of

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them.

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But it wasn't until I got the one

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from Dark Horse that was that really

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resonated with me because it was an editor

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who took some time,

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took the form letter and wrote on the

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other side of it.

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Some suggestions that I should do said,

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you know, my samples were decent.

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I've never been published by anybody else.

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So, of course,

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they wouldn't want to take a chance on

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me.

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OK.

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Yeah.

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So that was that was a valid thing.

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And she said to get published like

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anywhere that you could just just write,

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just write, get published,

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work with editors, get better at it.

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So I did all kinds of zines and

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fan fiction and things like that.

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I got picked up by the Comic Buyer's

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Guide,

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which was a comic newspaper back in the

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day.

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And I wrote a couple of articles for

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them.

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I wrote something for a collect magazine.

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I wrote something for Indie Magazine.

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I wrote a feature there.

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So there were a lot of things that

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I wrote.

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And then I'm like, you know what?

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I'm going to take the second part of

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her suggestion,

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and I'm going to make my own comic

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series,

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and I'm going to start shopping it.

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And I'm not going to shop it to

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Marvel or DC.

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I'm going to shop it to these smaller

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publishers.

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So way back when we had that comic

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buyer's guide,

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which was a comic newspaper that came out

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every week,

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little publishers would take out ads in

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there, you know,

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pitching their books and everything.

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So I collected all these little publishers

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and I started sending out my samples of

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a series I created called Section Twelve

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to them.

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And the first one I sent out to,

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you know,

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Dilemma Productions out of Springfield,

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Massachusetts,

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about two hours away from my house.

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He called me.

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He's like, I want to do this.

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He goes, I'm doing a book right now.

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And he goes,

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I want to do this one, too.

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I can't afford to do both.

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So we're going to put it together.

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We're going to make an anthology.

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You know, I'll take half your story,

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half my story.

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And we'll and we're in this together.

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And I'm like, absolutely.

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This is great.

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The guy's name was Mike Kelleher.

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And he he works for Marvel, D.C.,

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all kinds of places right now.

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But at the time,

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he was just self-publishing his book,

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Legend Killer.

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We had Section XII on the other side.

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He called it Dilemma Presents.

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It was one of those black and white

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flippy books.

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Very indie.

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And they're still out there on eBay if

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you want to find them, folks.

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It ran for four issues before it got

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shut down by all of the...

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all of the stuff that was happening back

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in the nineties with comic publishers.

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So after that,

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I had met during the convention trail,

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this guy called named Phil Miller.

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And he was a really nice guy.

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I met him up in Utica.

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and i'm like i really want to work

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with you as an artist you're fantastic i'd

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love to see how you draw section twelve

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he drew a story for me it was

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wonderful and i'm like okay we're gonna

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we're gonna have this as number five of

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dilemma presents and mike's like no we

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can't do that

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So then I was able to cut a

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deal with a company in Canada called

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Mythic Comics,

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and they picked up Section XII as a

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full feature.

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So Phil redrew the first issue of Section

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XII.

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It looked beautiful.

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It became their bestseller.

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It got that diamond spotlight or whatever

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in the catalog.

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Everybody loved it.

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And then...

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Mythic had to close doors because Marvel

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bought distributors and if you didn't use

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their distributor,

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if you weren't Marvel or DC,

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they weren't going to distribute the Indy

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Comics.

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So an Indy Comics publisher who's not able

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to get to the store at the time,

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it was just the kiss of death.

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So we walked off into the sunset with

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a lot of those stories,

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never seeing the light of day.

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So flash forward,

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life happens to two thousand fourteen.

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I'm working my real job.

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I fly on a plane every week.

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This is where the story gets really crazy.

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I fly on a plane every week.

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I'm one of those people who I work

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on.

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I work from Monday to Thursday off site

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and then I fly home.

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So I'm on the same plane every week.

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commuting at this time I was commuting to

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the Midwest and it happens that this guy

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was on the plane and he was taking

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up all the overhead space and it was

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because he was pushing his way in front

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of line and he was just getting there

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first and I'd have to check my bag

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every time because it's like I only carry

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this one little backpack but he had four

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suitcases and I'm like why are they

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letting this guy carry four suitcases and

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And I knew him because he wore a

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ridiculous looking tracksuit that he

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traveled with him.

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So I was like, okay,

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I'm going to get there at five in

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the morning.

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And just out of spite,

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I'm going to stand right by the gate

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the entire time for this, you know,

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for this six thirty flight.

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And I stood there for an hour and

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a half.

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And the gate agent said, okay,

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anybody with any disabilities or anything

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that needs to board first?

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So this guy fake limps up there,

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fake limps past the gate agent and then

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runs down the jet by laughing.

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And I was like, okay.

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I'm putting this on social media.

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I got to tell the world about this.

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I did.

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Week after week,

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it was something different.

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He would do something else to get on

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the plane first.

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He would foil me,

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and he would get on the plane first.

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One week,

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he pretended he was the wheelchair guy,

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and he pushed this woman with a wheelchair

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onto the plane with him.

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He pretended he knew her.

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I was like,

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wow, this is all really happening.

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And I have photos of it and I'm,

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I'm putting it on social media and my

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following is growing.

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And all of a sudden, you know,

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people are asking my wife in the preschool

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pickup line,

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like what did tracksuit man do this week?

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And what did tracksuit man do that week?

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and so here i am now it's two

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thousand fourteen and my my buddy mike

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kelleher is like you know you should do

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comics again because you just had a

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perfect story fall on your lap make this

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into a comic story and i'm like okay

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so i took all of the social media

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posts and looked at them and said okay

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this can be a page and this can

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be a page and so on the left

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i would have the

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the visual representation of it and on the

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right i'd have everybody's comments which

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were hilarious so that was tracksuit man

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and

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a funny thing happened when I did that

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comic because as a writer,

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I didn't really have a lot of skills.

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So I had to go find an artist.

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I had a, you know,

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I had learned how to digitally color and

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letter.

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So I was able to do that.

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I was a,

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I had a printer who helped me with

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all the pre-press stuff.

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So I got it all.

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I got it all together.

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I printed it out.

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It looked like a great book.

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And then my comic friends started to come

00:10:56.841 --> 00:10:57.981
back out of the woodwork.

00:10:58.381 --> 00:10:59.643
I'm hearing from Phil Miller.

00:10:59.682 --> 00:11:00.763
I'm hearing from Mike Keller.

00:11:00.802 --> 00:11:01.243
And they're like,

00:11:01.942 --> 00:11:03.845
let's do this let's make comics again

00:11:04.265 --> 00:11:07.629
let's put section twelve back up and i

00:11:07.769 --> 00:11:09.410
was like okay you guys want to do

00:11:09.451 --> 00:11:12.053
this we'll we'll make uh we'll make

00:11:12.094 --> 00:11:15.918
section twelve so we did we had all

00:11:15.937 --> 00:11:17.679
these great stories from the nineties that

00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:22.024
that never saw print so the question with

00:11:22.063 --> 00:11:23.385
section twelve became

00:11:24.215 --> 00:11:24.875
What do we do?

00:11:24.936 --> 00:11:26.256
Do we do what everybody does?

00:11:26.297 --> 00:11:28.599
And do we do we just rewrite everything

00:11:28.719 --> 00:11:30.620
so that it's going to happen in twenty

00:11:31.160 --> 00:11:33.783
twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen at

00:11:33.802 --> 00:11:34.323
this point?

00:11:34.903 --> 00:11:36.184
Or I said, no,

00:11:36.586 --> 00:11:37.907
I think it's going to be cool if

00:11:37.947 --> 00:11:39.248
we do if we set the whole thing

00:11:39.268 --> 00:11:40.828
in nineteen ninety four and we keep it

00:11:40.849 --> 00:11:43.392
in nineteen ninety four.

00:11:43.451 --> 00:11:45.393
And then the other voice in my head

00:11:45.633 --> 00:11:45.933
said.

00:11:47.142 --> 00:11:50.446
But GPSs and cell phones and stuff like

00:11:50.466 --> 00:11:51.707
that are cool too.

00:11:52.369 --> 00:11:53.951
And I'm like, yeah, they are.

00:11:54.071 --> 00:11:57.355
So what if we set the story in

00:11:57.394 --> 00:11:58.437
the modern day

00:11:59.975 --> 00:12:01.135
And I'm like, you know what?

00:12:01.416 --> 00:12:02.336
I'm a little publisher.

00:12:02.716 --> 00:12:03.677
I can do them both.

00:12:04.336 --> 00:12:05.258
So I have both.

00:12:05.857 --> 00:12:08.679
So I expanded my timeline by I did

00:12:08.740 --> 00:12:10.980
all the nineteen ninety four stories that

00:12:11.081 --> 00:12:12.361
I had in inventory.

00:12:13.022 --> 00:12:15.442
And then I created another one in the

00:12:15.523 --> 00:12:17.663
modern day where there's this team of

00:12:17.724 --> 00:12:19.264
people that are looking for the section

00:12:19.304 --> 00:12:20.885
twelve technology because it's all

00:12:20.926 --> 00:12:23.847
futuristic, even even in two thousand.

00:12:24.868 --> 00:12:27.808
that we're at at this point.

00:12:28.009 --> 00:12:30.070
And they want to find all that technology

00:12:30.110 --> 00:12:31.330
and it's valuable to them,

00:12:32.169 --> 00:12:33.510
but it's all gone.

00:12:34.270 --> 00:12:37.831
So it's a very interesting series because

00:12:38.272 --> 00:12:40.793
I have to find a plausible way to

00:12:40.852 --> 00:12:42.332
make things that were.

00:12:44.134 --> 00:12:44.573
Twenty,

00:12:44.774 --> 00:12:48.174
twenty two years ago at this point come

00:12:48.274 --> 00:12:48.455
up.

00:12:49.774 --> 00:12:51.375
In a plausible way that they can be.

00:12:52.907 --> 00:12:55.369
that they can have survived.

00:12:55.929 --> 00:12:57.370
So just as an example,

00:12:57.671 --> 00:12:58.631
in the first issue,

00:12:59.513 --> 00:13:03.096
we found this woman hires this guy who's

00:13:03.115 --> 00:13:06.818
going to be one of the Section-XII new

00:13:06.859 --> 00:13:07.259
team,

00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:11.081
and he is paid to clear out a

00:13:11.121 --> 00:13:12.604
widow's basement because she's moving to

00:13:12.624 --> 00:13:13.024
Florida,

00:13:13.484 --> 00:13:16.086
while all these boxes have the Section-XII

00:13:16.126 --> 00:13:17.707
logo because her late husband was a

00:13:17.807 --> 00:13:19.730
hoarder, and he worked at Section-XII,

00:13:19.750 --> 00:13:21.071
and he was stealing stuff from the...

00:13:21.650 --> 00:13:22.631
from the installation.

00:13:22.692 --> 00:13:24.572
So he has all this top secret tech.

00:13:24.592 --> 00:13:26.615
Sorry,

00:13:26.674 --> 00:13:28.676
my head just went to Johnny Cash working

00:13:28.716 --> 00:13:30.576
at the Cadillac plant and stealing all the

00:13:30.616 --> 00:13:31.498
Cadillac parts.

00:13:31.898 --> 00:13:34.360
Yes, exactly.

00:13:34.820 --> 00:13:35.841
So that was one thing.

00:13:35.860 --> 00:13:37.461
And then I had another where a guy

00:13:37.501 --> 00:13:39.043
was in a coma for twenty years and

00:13:39.062 --> 00:13:41.264
he woke up and he was nonverbal,

00:13:41.304 --> 00:13:43.426
but he's painting pictures of what he saw

00:13:43.485 --> 00:13:45.506
in section twelve and the logo was all

00:13:45.567 --> 00:13:46.148
over the place.

00:13:46.187 --> 00:13:48.168
So there's another plausible way.

00:13:48.229 --> 00:13:50.091
So just just an example.

00:13:50.951 --> 00:13:51.912
I had a lot of fun with a

00:13:51.971 --> 00:13:53.913
storage locker that was prepaid for twenty

00:13:53.953 --> 00:13:55.794
years and then got opened up and auctioned

00:13:55.914 --> 00:13:58.256
off with a reality TV show.

00:13:58.297 --> 00:13:58.376
Yeah.

00:14:00.219 --> 00:14:02.660
And so so that was that series has

00:14:02.681 --> 00:14:04.663
been a lot of fun and it's really

00:14:04.702 --> 00:14:05.182
caught on.

00:14:05.222 --> 00:14:09.147
We just we just released section twelve

00:14:09.187 --> 00:14:12.970
declassified where the team finds a clue

00:14:13.049 --> 00:14:14.571
and it takes them to a renaissance fair.

00:14:14.591 --> 00:14:15.851
And I won't spoil it any more than

00:14:15.871 --> 00:14:16.133
that.

00:14:16.732 --> 00:14:17.274
So yeah.

00:14:20.135 --> 00:14:21.235
It's really fun.

00:14:21.395 --> 00:14:23.576
But the classic series is the one that

00:14:23.636 --> 00:14:24.136
I love.

00:14:24.417 --> 00:14:28.078
Section twelve is a top secret government

00:14:28.139 --> 00:14:30.700
installation that keeps scientific

00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:32.620
failures out of the public eye.

00:14:32.821 --> 00:14:34.562
So every time something fails,

00:14:34.961 --> 00:14:37.562
science wise, catastrophically,

00:14:38.243 --> 00:14:41.424
they call this special team of superheroes

00:14:41.605 --> 00:14:43.927
in that are all inmates of section twelve

00:14:43.947 --> 00:14:45.947
because they were all parts of failed

00:14:45.988 --> 00:14:48.350
experiments and their job is to cover

00:14:48.429 --> 00:14:50.772
everything up so we have a we have

00:14:50.792 --> 00:14:52.793
a lot of fun covering everything up and

00:14:53.253 --> 00:14:56.335
recently people have been asking me so i

00:14:56.515 --> 00:15:00.638
have started combining them into um not

00:15:00.658 --> 00:15:02.799
quite graphic novels i call them mega size

00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:04.681
comics so it's the first four issues of

00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:05.442
section twelve

00:15:06.162 --> 00:15:09.886
um paperbacks yeah yeah yeah it's it's

00:15:09.927 --> 00:15:12.269
still in the floppy format it's you know

00:15:12.308 --> 00:15:12.509
but

00:15:13.577 --> 00:15:15.318
cause it's a little more inexpensive for

00:15:15.339 --> 00:15:18.042
people that way, but it's like, it's nice.

00:15:18.381 --> 00:15:18.542
Um,

00:15:18.721 --> 00:15:20.243
and we've had a lot of success with

00:15:20.263 --> 00:15:20.803
those.

00:15:20.823 --> 00:15:22.325
So it's, um, because I'm,

00:15:22.524 --> 00:15:23.846
I'm running out of the,

00:15:23.865 --> 00:15:24.927
the original print runs.

00:15:25.006 --> 00:15:27.389
So rather than, uh, reprinting a second,

00:15:27.649 --> 00:15:29.610
a second run, I decided to, um,

00:15:30.030 --> 00:15:32.413
make these mega size ones because I can

00:15:32.513 --> 00:15:34.695
add some director's cut kind of stuff in

00:15:34.715 --> 00:15:35.034
there.

00:15:35.095 --> 00:15:35.735
And, you know, So,

00:15:41.179 --> 00:15:43.701
You just basically answered a whole lot of

00:15:43.741 --> 00:15:46.423
questions all at once, which is – No,

00:15:46.462 --> 00:15:47.023
hell no, dude.

00:15:47.082 --> 00:15:48.624
That is – I love that kind of

00:15:48.663 --> 00:15:48.923
stuff.

00:15:48.964 --> 00:15:51.086
When I could just ask a question and

00:15:51.125 --> 00:15:52.405
just let the person go,

00:15:53.267 --> 00:15:54.988
it makes for a whole lot of less

00:15:55.207 --> 00:15:57.009
editing and stuff like that later.

00:15:57.028 --> 00:15:57.688
So for me,

00:15:57.788 --> 00:16:00.190
it's like ask a question and let them

00:16:00.230 --> 00:16:00.490
go.

00:16:00.850 --> 00:16:01.571
All right.

00:16:01.610 --> 00:16:04.952
But let me see.

00:16:05.033 --> 00:16:06.073
How far did you go?

00:16:06.333 --> 00:16:06.614
Let's see.

00:16:08.547 --> 00:16:10.888
So let's talk about section twelve.

00:16:12.028 --> 00:16:12.128
Yeah.

00:16:12.168 --> 00:16:12.248
Yeah.

00:16:12.268 --> 00:16:13.349
Let's go back to the nineties for a

00:16:13.389 --> 00:16:15.690
second because the nineties scene,

00:16:16.190 --> 00:16:17.549
the birth of image,

00:16:18.370 --> 00:16:20.892
the birth of image mirage was still

00:16:20.912 --> 00:16:21.451
around.

00:16:21.552 --> 00:16:24.413
Marvel DC was trying to do everything in

00:16:24.472 --> 00:16:27.573
its power to stop the images and the

00:16:27.614 --> 00:16:30.274
mirages and the black horses and those

00:16:30.315 --> 00:16:31.975
types of people from Marvel.

00:16:32.196 --> 00:16:34.496
being able to get their books into stores

00:16:35.017 --> 00:16:37.639
that's well it's well known that's well

00:16:37.678 --> 00:16:39.220
known history that that's what they were

00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.561
doing but from an indie perspective a pure

00:16:42.821 --> 00:16:45.962
indie perspective what was that like

00:16:46.043 --> 00:16:49.605
watching image be born mirage and all

00:16:49.644 --> 00:16:51.365
these other companies being born at the

00:16:51.426 --> 00:16:54.547
time despite what marvel and dc were

00:16:54.606 --> 00:16:56.868
trying to accomplish on their side and

00:16:56.888 --> 00:16:57.288
then you

00:16:58.583 --> 00:16:59.063
Like, hey,

00:16:59.124 --> 00:17:00.904
I'm going to make comics now and kind

00:17:01.044 --> 00:17:02.705
of jumping into the midst with the big

00:17:02.745 --> 00:17:05.506
boys before some of them became big boys.

00:17:06.686 --> 00:17:10.268
So I'll jump into my,

00:17:10.788 --> 00:17:12.847
so you want to get into comics school

00:17:12.887 --> 00:17:13.888
speech for a second.

00:17:13.929 --> 00:17:15.788
I'll take a paragraph out of that.

00:17:16.048 --> 00:17:17.250
No, dude, I love that.

00:17:17.269 --> 00:17:17.710
Go for it.

00:17:18.130 --> 00:17:18.470
Okay.

00:17:19.029 --> 00:17:22.030
So publishing in the twenty-first century

00:17:22.191 --> 00:17:23.771
was a lot different than publishing

00:17:24.412 --> 00:17:26.373
public than it was in the twentieth

00:17:26.413 --> 00:17:26.792
century.

00:17:27.354 --> 00:17:28.595
So in the twentieth century,

00:17:29.454 --> 00:17:31.056
a lot of publishers had things in black

00:17:31.076 --> 00:17:32.777
and white just because it was so cost

00:17:32.797 --> 00:17:34.178
prohibitive to do printing.

00:17:34.538 --> 00:17:36.699
Digital printing wasn't really a thing.

00:17:36.739 --> 00:17:38.519
You had to do the four color offset

00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:41.362
stuff and that meant you were either

00:17:41.382 --> 00:17:43.282
getting a thousand or two thousand copies

00:17:43.303 --> 00:17:44.523
of something and you were going to have

00:17:44.544 --> 00:17:47.506
them sitting in your garage when you sold

00:17:47.605 --> 00:17:49.186
twenty, thirty copies a show.

00:17:49.807 --> 00:17:51.469
at two or three dollars a piece.

00:17:51.528 --> 00:17:53.451
The numbers didn't work well.

00:17:54.852 --> 00:17:56.933
So it was tough.

00:17:57.734 --> 00:17:58.836
You put in your

00:18:00.037 --> 00:18:02.117
book was more like a magazine because you

00:18:02.157 --> 00:18:03.939
put it in and for a month you

00:18:03.979 --> 00:18:06.019
had some great sales you had sales from

00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:07.961
diamond you had sales from capital city

00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:10.041
you had sales from hero's world and they

00:18:10.061 --> 00:18:12.522
would order you know twelve hundred books

00:18:12.663 --> 00:18:14.743
fifteen hundred books things like that all

00:18:14.763 --> 00:18:15.844
you had to do was show up in

00:18:15.864 --> 00:18:17.605
the catalog and these indie friendly

00:18:17.664 --> 00:18:19.865
stores would would get if you had a

00:18:20.386 --> 00:18:23.008
good cover and a good description you'd

00:18:23.028 --> 00:18:25.648
get the orders and that that was great

00:18:25.788 --> 00:18:27.609
and that's exactly what you were saying

00:18:27.650 --> 00:18:27.769
that

00:18:28.170 --> 00:18:28.471
you know,

00:18:28.810 --> 00:18:31.512
DC and everybody else hated because,

00:18:31.673 --> 00:18:31.913
you know,

00:18:32.013 --> 00:18:33.214
all you had to do was show up.

00:18:33.955 --> 00:18:35.257
Um, and it was a lot of fun.

00:18:35.336 --> 00:18:36.438
We, we got out there,

00:18:36.837 --> 00:18:39.601
we got back then you've got fan letters.

00:18:39.641 --> 00:18:41.061
We got fan letters from all over the

00:18:41.122 --> 00:18:41.442
world.

00:18:41.501 --> 00:18:42.202
It was great.

00:18:42.682 --> 00:18:46.487
We, um, we got a call from, um,

00:18:47.674 --> 00:18:48.875
and this is really aging me,

00:18:48.934 --> 00:18:52.157
but we got a call from a company

00:18:52.298 --> 00:18:54.660
in New Jersey that was filming a movie

00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:57.721
about two comic creators that fell in love

00:18:57.842 --> 00:19:00.784
and they wanted to have people be extras

00:19:00.824 --> 00:19:01.644
in that movie.

00:19:02.224 --> 00:19:03.925
And this director was a fan of our

00:19:03.965 --> 00:19:04.567
comics.

00:19:04.767 --> 00:19:07.209
So he had called my publisher and asked

00:19:07.308 --> 00:19:09.170
if he and I would be willing to

00:19:09.790 --> 00:19:10.971
drive down to Red Bank,

00:19:11.010 --> 00:19:13.333
New Jersey and be extras in the movie,

00:19:13.373 --> 00:19:14.034
Chasing Amy.

00:19:14.653 --> 00:19:16.075
so it was like yeah we got to

00:19:16.115 --> 00:19:18.156
spend the weekend that's really cool ben

00:19:18.257 --> 00:19:20.078
affleck and you know we were in this

00:19:20.179 --> 00:19:22.760
creepy hotel in new jersey and you know

00:19:22.780 --> 00:19:25.923
they're all creepy in new jersey yeah it

00:19:25.942 --> 00:19:27.664
looked like something out of shining um

00:19:28.025 --> 00:19:29.747
yeah you know the good version of the

00:19:29.767 --> 00:19:31.748
show oh i know which one you meant

00:19:31.768 --> 00:19:34.631
yeah to me there's only one yeah so

00:19:34.851 --> 00:19:37.553
it was like wow it was so much

00:19:37.613 --> 00:19:39.074
fun hanging out with these guys for the

00:19:39.114 --> 00:19:41.336
weekend and there were all kinds of indie

00:19:41.355 --> 00:19:42.676
guys there um you know

00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:46.862
And it was incredible.

00:19:46.942 --> 00:19:52.945
So you were featured in Stan Lee's How

00:19:53.006 --> 00:19:54.666
to Draw Comics.

00:19:55.126 --> 00:19:55.446
Yeah.

00:19:56.028 --> 00:19:57.769
How was that moment for you?

00:19:59.181 --> 00:20:00.903
It was a Christmas present from Mike

00:20:00.923 --> 00:20:01.463
Kelleher.

00:20:02.605 --> 00:20:05.009
Mike was working with Stan Lee on how

00:20:05.048 --> 00:20:05.970
to draw comics.

00:20:06.651 --> 00:20:09.755
And he,

00:20:10.096 --> 00:20:12.739
Stan and Mike were looking for something

00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:14.521
that was a good...

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.467
good powerful page one image that was in

00:20:20.507 --> 00:20:22.749
black and white that was a recognizable

00:20:22.849 --> 00:20:25.553
indie comic because you know Stan was

00:20:25.593 --> 00:20:28.537
doing this outside of Marvel so you know

00:20:29.037 --> 00:20:29.257
and

00:20:30.441 --> 00:20:32.681
The mind came up and Mike is like,

00:20:33.082 --> 00:20:33.821
I know this guy.

00:20:34.162 --> 00:20:35.342
Well, I can I can get this.

00:20:35.382 --> 00:20:36.721
So it was it was Phil Miller's

00:20:36.761 --> 00:20:39.083
illustration from from Section twelve,

00:20:39.103 --> 00:20:42.163
which is in Section twelve flashback

00:20:42.182 --> 00:20:42.682
number one.

00:20:43.384 --> 00:20:45.864
And it was a fantastic illustration.

00:20:46.044 --> 00:20:47.723
And it and it was in there and

00:20:47.743 --> 00:20:49.605
it was in the in the section on

00:20:50.105 --> 00:20:52.384
scanning and digitally cleaning up images,

00:20:52.704 --> 00:20:54.286
you know, when they start with and they,

00:20:54.705 --> 00:20:55.185
you know,

00:20:55.566 --> 00:20:56.366
They got my permission.

00:20:56.406 --> 00:20:57.847
They took it through the scan to the

00:20:57.867 --> 00:20:59.329
digital cleanups and all of that.

00:20:59.450 --> 00:21:01.332
So it was it was fantastic.

00:21:01.632 --> 00:21:04.134
I did not get a Stanley nickname.

00:21:04.575 --> 00:21:05.215
Mike did.

00:21:05.516 --> 00:21:06.738
He's mighty.

00:21:06.778 --> 00:21:08.819
Mike, tell her I did not get one.

00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:10.721
I was a little jealous, but yeah.

00:21:13.954 --> 00:21:14.375
It was great.

00:21:14.717 --> 00:21:17.161
I met Stan once at a convention.

00:21:17.300 --> 00:21:19.002
I never got to really work with him

00:21:19.064 --> 00:21:19.584
much on that,

00:21:19.624 --> 00:21:21.587
but Mike traded a lot of emails with

00:21:21.627 --> 00:21:21.728
him.

00:21:21.807 --> 00:21:23.471
He was corresponding with him a lot.

00:21:24.551 --> 00:21:25.794
He said it was a great experience.

00:21:27.515 --> 00:21:30.135
It's still I think I don't think I

00:21:30.195 --> 00:21:32.277
know for a fact I had that book

00:21:32.477 --> 00:21:35.137
in the nineties growing up.

00:21:35.758 --> 00:21:36.298
Yeah.

00:21:36.317 --> 00:21:37.618
And I wish I still had it to

00:21:37.659 --> 00:21:39.559
this day because I remember getting it at

00:21:39.579 --> 00:21:41.559
a bookstore because I was really big into

00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:42.181
drawing.

00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:44.422
I was trying it anyway.

00:21:44.541 --> 00:21:45.883
I was never very good at it.

00:21:46.423 --> 00:21:47.704
But it was just one of those where

00:21:48.005 --> 00:21:49.926
it was a Stan Lee thing.

00:21:50.106 --> 00:21:51.208
So it was one of those where I'm

00:21:51.248 --> 00:21:51.448
like,

00:21:51.887 --> 00:21:53.328
Stan Lee's going to tell me how to

00:21:53.368 --> 00:21:54.349
draw comic books.

00:21:55.131 --> 00:21:56.311
And I'm like, that's cool.

00:21:56.392 --> 00:21:57.232
I want that.

00:21:57.313 --> 00:21:58.634
And I remember getting it,

00:21:59.074 --> 00:22:00.955
taking it home and trying to practice,

00:22:00.996 --> 00:22:03.617
probably tracing the pictures from the

00:22:03.678 --> 00:22:03.998
book.

00:22:04.018 --> 00:22:04.478
So who knows?

00:22:04.617 --> 00:22:08.060
I probably traced your... You might have,

00:22:08.121 --> 00:22:08.561
yeah.

00:22:09.605 --> 00:22:10.626
That's really cool, man.

00:22:10.787 --> 00:22:14.691
As I was creating this interview over

00:22:14.750 --> 00:22:15.010
here,

00:22:15.551 --> 00:22:16.853
that was one of those where I was

00:22:16.893 --> 00:22:17.113
like,

00:22:17.433 --> 00:22:19.836
I have to tell him that because it's

00:22:19.875 --> 00:22:21.457
so cool that you were featured in it.

00:22:21.958 --> 00:22:23.578
I used to trace pictures out of that

00:22:23.618 --> 00:22:25.760
thing like it was going out of style.

00:22:26.382 --> 00:22:28.183
I'm pretty sure that was one of those

00:22:28.263 --> 00:22:28.784
books where

00:22:29.785 --> 00:22:32.167
i had some espn like comic books from

00:22:32.189 --> 00:22:33.589
the nineties too where i probably just

00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:35.051
wore right through the staples and

00:22:35.132 --> 00:22:37.935
everything i traced out of it so much

00:22:37.955 --> 00:22:40.380
just trying to learn how to do shading

00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.083
and drawing and line work and like i

00:22:43.103 --> 00:22:44.424
said i never got good at it but

00:22:44.464 --> 00:22:46.887
it was i just i loved it you

00:22:46.907 --> 00:22:47.088
know

00:22:48.358 --> 00:22:50.201
We were in Borders one time,

00:22:50.260 --> 00:22:51.582
a friend of mine and myself.

00:22:51.801 --> 00:22:53.123
And I don't know,

00:22:53.182 --> 00:22:55.065
he was ragging on me like, oh,

00:22:55.425 --> 00:22:56.527
you wrote a comic book.

00:22:56.866 --> 00:22:58.167
You know, good luck having it in here.

00:22:58.188 --> 00:22:58.508
And I said,

00:22:58.548 --> 00:23:00.109
I'll bet you dinner that I can find

00:23:00.150 --> 00:23:01.351
my name in this bookstore.

00:23:01.851 --> 00:23:03.573
And he's like, oh, yeah, right.

00:23:03.873 --> 00:23:05.074
And then I went right over and they

00:23:05.134 --> 00:23:05.855
had that book.

00:23:06.635 --> 00:23:08.317
The deck was loaded because I knew they

00:23:08.356 --> 00:23:08.817
had the book.

00:23:09.377 --> 00:23:10.720
And I just opened it up.

00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:12.141
I opened up the index and I'm like,

00:23:12.221 --> 00:23:13.082
OK, here you go.

00:23:15.748 --> 00:23:21.029
free dinner let's go yep exactly so what

00:23:21.470 --> 00:23:25.112
sparked the creation of lenovations press

00:23:25.192 --> 00:23:27.532
in which is just the coolest name ever

00:23:27.573 --> 00:23:29.453
by the way because you literally got to

00:23:29.473 --> 00:23:31.154
take the first part of your name and

00:23:31.174 --> 00:23:35.236
just like add ovations in it and boom

00:23:35.896 --> 00:23:38.218
yeah that's why it's called jay leno's

00:23:38.258 --> 00:23:40.258
garage now because i got the domain first

00:23:40.878 --> 00:23:40.919
uh

00:23:43.579 --> 00:23:45.240
That's why the show is called Jay Leno's

00:23:45.259 --> 00:23:48.080
garage They did contact me for it.

00:23:48.141 --> 00:23:48.901
But no, um,

00:23:49.121 --> 00:23:50.981
I I in another life I was a

00:23:51.021 --> 00:23:53.221
web designer and I needed a cool name

00:23:53.461 --> 00:23:55.063
and that was what I came up with

00:23:55.742 --> 00:23:58.282
and Then at in twenty fourteen tracksuit

00:23:58.323 --> 00:23:59.864
man was only gonna be a one-shot,

00:23:59.923 --> 00:24:02.844
you know I'm you know,

00:24:03.044 --> 00:24:04.644
I Want to prove that I can do

00:24:04.684 --> 00:24:05.345
this thing.

00:24:05.404 --> 00:24:06.845
So what do I call it?

00:24:06.884 --> 00:24:08.625
Exciting comics good comics,

00:24:08.806 --> 00:24:09.846
you know fun comics

00:24:11.655 --> 00:24:12.675
Lenovations Press.

00:24:12.955 --> 00:24:13.257
Okay.

00:24:13.656 --> 00:24:13.957
You know,

00:24:14.497 --> 00:24:17.577
because I already had the Lenovations logo

00:24:17.597 --> 00:24:19.919
from the website and all of that stuff.

00:24:19.939 --> 00:24:20.878
So I said, okay,

00:24:20.898 --> 00:24:22.119
it's going to be Lenovations Press.

00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:23.720
If I had known that it was going

00:24:23.740 --> 00:24:26.240
to, like, turn into something,

00:24:26.320 --> 00:24:27.861
I probably wouldn't have named it after

00:24:27.902 --> 00:24:28.422
myself,

00:24:28.501 --> 00:24:30.561
because there's a lot of other people that

00:24:30.602 --> 00:24:31.202
are involved.

00:24:31.222 --> 00:24:32.823
But here we are.

00:24:33.742 --> 00:24:37.224
Hey, you know, it sounds cool.

00:24:37.305 --> 00:24:39.505
It rose off the tongue really good.

00:24:39.684 --> 00:24:41.006
So, I mean, hey.

00:24:41.046 --> 00:24:41.165
Yeah.

00:24:43.222 --> 00:24:44.785
But let me ask,

00:24:44.944 --> 00:24:49.429
what does boutique publishing mean to you?

00:24:50.109 --> 00:24:51.111
Because I love that word,

00:24:51.151 --> 00:24:52.112
boutique publishing.

00:24:52.211 --> 00:24:55.055
It just sounds fancy.

00:24:56.415 --> 00:24:59.219
Again, we get together and we talk,

00:24:59.740 --> 00:25:02.541
and it's kind of like –

00:25:02.859 --> 00:25:05.980
I don't do Kickstarters because I have

00:25:06.020 --> 00:25:08.942
this thing about holding on to somebody

00:25:09.001 --> 00:25:12.202
else's money and making promises and

00:25:12.222 --> 00:25:13.084
things like that.

00:25:13.124 --> 00:25:14.903
So that's not my model.

00:25:15.324 --> 00:25:16.285
My model is...

00:25:17.144 --> 00:25:18.986
I go out there, I publish.

00:25:19.386 --> 00:25:21.667
I have three or four sites that either

00:25:22.568 --> 00:25:25.790
do fulfillment and do printing or that I

00:25:25.871 --> 00:25:26.631
sell through.

00:25:26.751 --> 00:25:27.791
I sell digital copies.

00:25:27.852 --> 00:25:29.113
I sell print copies.

00:25:31.775 --> 00:25:32.895
I have a stock here.

00:25:33.435 --> 00:25:36.537
that i um do i do shows not

00:25:36.576 --> 00:25:38.978
just comic shows i'll do you know fan

00:25:38.998 --> 00:25:42.440
shows media shows craft shows sometimes i

00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:46.201
do things events at schools i do you

00:25:46.221 --> 00:25:49.542
know things at libraries so there's a lot

00:25:49.583 --> 00:25:53.144
of things that i do um and how

00:25:53.163 --> 00:25:56.365
do you what word brings all of that

00:25:56.705 --> 00:25:59.886
eclectic stuff together you know and i

00:25:59.906 --> 00:26:02.107
think a boutique publisher because

00:26:03.176 --> 00:26:05.838
Yeah, I'm not in a lot of stores.

00:26:05.858 --> 00:26:07.319
I'm in a couple of stores locally where

00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:09.321
I can sign stuff, but that's about it.

00:26:09.981 --> 00:26:12.284
Because I never went the diamond path,

00:26:12.364 --> 00:26:15.145
which in twenty fourteen was really weird.

00:26:15.185 --> 00:26:16.587
And everybody said, oh, good.

00:26:16.627 --> 00:26:17.127
You didn't.

00:26:17.347 --> 00:26:17.868
Yeah.

00:26:17.888 --> 00:26:18.989
Don't do the diet.

00:26:19.028 --> 00:26:19.289
You know,

00:26:19.390 --> 00:26:20.931
don't do this without the diamond path

00:26:20.951 --> 00:26:21.590
because you'll starve.

00:26:21.611 --> 00:26:22.011
And I said.

00:26:23.321 --> 00:26:24.362
through social media,

00:26:24.461 --> 00:26:25.442
through the internet,

00:26:25.803 --> 00:26:28.242
through just getting the word out,

00:26:28.963 --> 00:26:31.284
I can make enough to cover what I

00:26:31.324 --> 00:26:32.244
need to do.

00:26:32.585 --> 00:26:36.006
And I have.

00:26:36.026 --> 00:26:38.547
And it's like one comic funds the next.

00:26:38.646 --> 00:26:41.307
And that's how this is all built.

00:26:42.067 --> 00:26:44.448
So yeah, I'm not rolling in.

00:26:44.468 --> 00:26:45.969
I'm not acting like a lottery winner.

00:26:46.028 --> 00:26:47.888
But it's like it's paying for itself,

00:26:47.909 --> 00:26:49.150
which keeps my wife happy.

00:26:51.186 --> 00:26:52.367
And that's the important part, right?

00:26:53.088 --> 00:26:53.548
Exactly.

00:26:54.049 --> 00:26:55.830
So so that pays for itself.

00:26:55.891 --> 00:26:58.473
But but little else.

00:26:58.773 --> 00:27:01.215
So I thought boutique was really a good

00:27:01.256 --> 00:27:03.877
word because think of a small specialty

00:27:03.897 --> 00:27:04.898
shop that you would go in,

00:27:04.939 --> 00:27:06.441
which is the only place that you can

00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:07.481
go and buy something.

00:27:07.761 --> 00:27:07.981
You know,

00:27:08.221 --> 00:27:10.263
it's it's available some other places,

00:27:10.344 --> 00:27:11.785
but, you know, not widely.

00:27:12.165 --> 00:27:13.747
So so that's what we are.

00:27:13.787 --> 00:27:14.887
We're a boutique publisher.

00:27:15.288 --> 00:27:16.429
No, I like it.

00:27:16.470 --> 00:27:17.369
And like I said.

00:27:18.310 --> 00:27:20.951
Linovations Press, Boutique Publishing.

00:27:20.991 --> 00:27:22.833
You've gotten these words that just roll

00:27:22.913 --> 00:27:24.413
off the tongue just so well.

00:27:25.574 --> 00:27:27.075
It is great marketing, too.

00:27:27.234 --> 00:27:29.675
So, I mean... But no, hey,

00:27:29.756 --> 00:27:30.396
if you're ever...

00:27:30.596 --> 00:27:32.458
You need somebody to come do a show

00:27:32.478 --> 00:27:34.838
with you, I know a couple of things.

00:27:35.058 --> 00:27:36.239
I know enough to get me into some

00:27:36.278 --> 00:27:36.638
trouble.

00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:38.339
I love Mass.

00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:39.760
Mass is so fun to be up there.

00:27:40.881 --> 00:27:41.682
When it warms up.

00:27:42.342 --> 00:27:44.282
We have a lot of fun at shows.

00:27:44.682 --> 00:27:45.923
Yeah.

00:27:45.963 --> 00:27:46.084
But...

00:27:51.018 --> 00:27:53.398
When you say we don't chase volume,

00:27:53.818 --> 00:27:56.459
we create something worth collecting.

00:27:57.219 --> 00:27:58.799
It's another one of those sayings that you

00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:00.319
have and I really like.

00:28:01.619 --> 00:28:04.520
What is that?

00:28:04.701 --> 00:28:05.040
Okay.

00:28:05.101 --> 00:28:11.682
So I'm not looking to... Again,

00:28:11.722 --> 00:28:12.823
me trying to edit my stories.

00:28:13.222 --> 00:28:16.284
So when I delved into...

00:28:17.241 --> 00:28:19.262
Public domain and golden age characters.

00:28:19.403 --> 00:28:21.483
I was like, wow, this is great.

00:28:21.784 --> 00:28:23.164
Here's all this content.

00:28:23.265 --> 00:28:25.385
I could put out so many books just

00:28:25.445 --> 00:28:27.386
by reprinting, you know,

00:28:27.467 --> 00:28:29.028
all of these old Western stories,

00:28:29.067 --> 00:28:30.147
these horror stories,

00:28:30.188 --> 00:28:31.769
these superhero stories,

00:28:31.909 --> 00:28:33.789
all of this stuff that's in the public

00:28:33.829 --> 00:28:34.230
domain.

00:28:34.810 --> 00:28:35.351
And I'm like,

00:28:36.351 --> 00:28:39.373
I started reading it and I'm like,

00:28:40.032 --> 00:28:41.733
I know why these books were canceled.

00:28:45.432 --> 00:28:47.232
I'm sorry.

00:28:47.532 --> 00:28:48.093
They're horrible.

00:28:48.292 --> 00:28:51.414
So why should I devote my time, money,

00:28:51.434 --> 00:28:54.276
and resources and that of the people that

00:28:54.355 --> 00:28:57.797
work with me on a project that I'm

00:28:57.856 --> 00:28:58.758
not excited about?

00:28:58.897 --> 00:29:01.199
So I made a rule that we don't

00:29:01.239 --> 00:29:02.819
publish something unless we're excited

00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:03.160
about it.

00:29:03.740 --> 00:29:06.661
So what you read is a fancy way

00:29:06.681 --> 00:29:08.122
of saying we don't half-ass it.

00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:10.181
You know,

00:29:10.340 --> 00:29:12.242
I'm not putting out a book just to

00:29:12.282 --> 00:29:13.804
say I put out more books.

00:29:14.263 --> 00:29:15.865
So to brag,

00:29:16.164 --> 00:29:18.366
I just sent off to the printer today,

00:29:18.826 --> 00:29:21.288
book number forty and forty one from

00:29:21.348 --> 00:29:22.369
Lenovations Press,

00:29:22.789 --> 00:29:24.530
which we've been around a little over ten

00:29:24.570 --> 00:29:24.971
years.

00:29:25.372 --> 00:29:27.353
It's not it's not a startling number,

00:29:27.373 --> 00:29:29.714
but I'm proud of it because a lot

00:29:29.835 --> 00:29:31.756
a lot of indie creators don't get beyond

00:29:31.796 --> 00:29:32.576
number five of

00:29:33.626 --> 00:29:36.630
so you know yeah and i i interview

00:29:36.750 --> 00:29:38.510
a lot of young kids coming up in

00:29:38.530 --> 00:29:40.613
the in the industry right now and i

00:29:40.653 --> 00:29:42.473
love talking to them i love to fill

00:29:42.513 --> 00:29:44.977
their energy their excitement and we i was

00:29:44.997 --> 00:29:47.398
just talking about this last night with

00:29:47.479 --> 00:29:50.820
donald as well and it's like i hope

00:29:50.961 --> 00:29:53.002
they have what it takes to make it

00:29:53.343 --> 00:29:56.546
past that number you know they get to

00:29:56.586 --> 00:29:58.367
two they get to three and then

00:29:59.670 --> 00:30:02.192
the amount of work it takes to sustain

00:30:02.372 --> 00:30:03.593
what they dream of.

00:30:04.074 --> 00:30:05.775
I don't think that that's really caught up

00:30:05.835 --> 00:30:06.576
to them yet.

00:30:07.036 --> 00:30:08.837
And when it does catch up to them,

00:30:09.298 --> 00:30:12.580
that's when you see the crash and burn.

00:30:13.101 --> 00:30:13.701
Yeah, there's a,

00:30:13.721 --> 00:30:15.923
there's a lot of crashes and burns.

00:30:16.344 --> 00:30:16.443
Um,

00:30:18.310 --> 00:30:24.211
Mega Size was born because everybody buys

00:30:25.192 --> 00:30:26.153
the most recent one.

00:30:26.272 --> 00:30:28.012
Everybody buys ones and twos.

00:30:28.752 --> 00:30:30.634
What about three, four, five?

00:30:30.834 --> 00:30:32.193
You know, when you start to get up.

00:30:32.594 --> 00:30:33.974
I still got to bring them all to

00:30:33.994 --> 00:30:34.474
shows.

00:30:34.894 --> 00:30:35.355
But I'm going to.

00:30:35.375 --> 00:30:35.775
You know what?

00:30:35.934 --> 00:30:37.556
I call that the meat and potatoes of

00:30:37.655 --> 00:30:38.675
any comic series.

00:30:38.796 --> 00:30:40.036
That's the meat and potatoes.

00:30:40.516 --> 00:30:41.977
Yeah.

00:30:42.596 --> 00:30:44.116
So I was like, you know what?

00:30:44.297 --> 00:30:46.438
By combining these into these little mini

00:30:46.458 --> 00:30:47.377
graphic novels.

00:30:48.176 --> 00:30:49.998
I don't have to carry as much stock.

00:30:50.837 --> 00:30:54.259
And number three has just as much weight

00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:56.621
now as number one, because it's in,

00:30:56.820 --> 00:30:59.321
because it's, it's part of the same story.

00:30:59.643 --> 00:31:00.663
It's in the same book.

00:31:01.262 --> 00:31:01.443
Yeah.

00:31:01.483 --> 00:31:03.403
So that's worked really well.

00:31:04.404 --> 00:31:06.546
So you're in local shops up there.

00:31:07.205 --> 00:31:08.846
So I need to feel that a lot

00:31:08.886 --> 00:31:11.048
of local comic shops won't carry their

00:31:11.147 --> 00:31:14.509
local comic book writers and artists.

00:31:14.529 --> 00:31:14.609
Yeah.

00:31:15.713 --> 00:31:17.315
Yeah, it's tough.

00:31:18.296 --> 00:31:19.977
And the consignment thing is tough, too.

00:31:20.017 --> 00:31:23.240
And I tell people this, you know,

00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:25.560
because local shops, let's be honest,

00:31:25.601 --> 00:31:27.482
it's not all brick and mortar store like

00:31:27.502 --> 00:31:29.003
you see on TV or the movies.

00:31:29.744 --> 00:31:31.286
Sometimes it's a guy at a flea market

00:31:31.306 --> 00:31:32.686
that has a booth there every week.

00:31:33.106 --> 00:31:36.048
you know yeah so it's stuff like that

00:31:36.087 --> 00:31:39.410
too but what i've learned is if you're

00:31:39.430 --> 00:31:41.490
going to consign things you have to visit

00:31:41.530 --> 00:31:44.291
them often and you have to inventory often

00:31:44.692 --> 00:31:47.692
because through you know it's not always

00:31:47.712 --> 00:31:50.153
just one person working there and you know

00:31:50.173 --> 00:31:52.154
through no fault of their own if you

00:31:52.194 --> 00:31:54.036
leave if you leave twenty copies of

00:31:54.076 --> 00:31:55.576
something there and they only have three

00:31:55.596 --> 00:31:56.557
they're like oh

00:31:56.977 --> 00:31:57.897
Who are you again?

00:31:57.917 --> 00:32:00.559
I don't know.

00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:02.422
We must have got these from somebody's

00:32:02.461 --> 00:32:03.923
collection or something.

00:32:04.502 --> 00:32:05.804
You have to keep renewing that

00:32:05.824 --> 00:32:06.625
relationship.

00:32:06.644 --> 00:32:07.445
That's a lot of work.

00:32:09.567 --> 00:32:10.468
It really is.

00:32:10.508 --> 00:32:11.888
I've definitely cut back on that because

00:32:12.210 --> 00:32:17.054
I've been burned too many times.

00:32:17.753 --> 00:32:18.055
I know...

00:32:19.666 --> 00:32:22.249
There's some like Ray Raynett down in

00:32:22.308 --> 00:32:25.049
South Florida drives like hours on end to

00:32:25.089 --> 00:32:27.330
get to shops that will carry his product

00:32:27.432 --> 00:32:28.132
on the shelves.

00:32:28.751 --> 00:32:30.933
He has no problems doing that because he

00:32:30.953 --> 00:32:33.654
has such a good relationship with that

00:32:33.694 --> 00:32:35.296
shop, which is really amazing.

00:32:35.355 --> 00:32:37.978
And I love to hear local comic shops

00:32:38.018 --> 00:32:41.619
supporting their local artists and local

00:32:41.660 --> 00:32:44.320
writers and local producers of comic

00:32:44.361 --> 00:32:44.662
books.

00:32:45.721 --> 00:32:47.923
When they have in-store sign-ins or

00:32:48.022 --> 00:32:51.703
in-store promotions and stuff like that,

00:32:51.723 --> 00:32:53.003
and they bring in the local people,

00:32:53.023 --> 00:32:56.125
I always enjoy seeing that being done.

00:32:56.184 --> 00:32:58.046
I just don't think it happens on a

00:32:58.766 --> 00:32:59.967
scale that I wish it would.

00:33:00.007 --> 00:33:00.767
Do you know what I'm saying?

00:33:02.013 --> 00:33:02.213
Well,

00:33:02.535 --> 00:33:04.316
part of it is not the store owner's

00:33:04.355 --> 00:33:05.176
fault either,

00:33:05.217 --> 00:33:06.637
because I've talked to a lot of store

00:33:06.698 --> 00:33:07.199
owners about it.

00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:10.361
They have these events and there's a big

00:33:10.481 --> 00:33:11.982
store up by where Phil Miller lives.

00:33:12.022 --> 00:33:12.442
And I'm like,

00:33:12.824 --> 00:33:15.226
I'll do I'll drive up there anytime and

00:33:15.266 --> 00:33:16.307
do a signing with him.

00:33:16.366 --> 00:33:17.027
And, you know,

00:33:17.047 --> 00:33:18.729
we have stuff coming out if you want

00:33:18.769 --> 00:33:20.390
us on free comic book day or whatever.

00:33:20.871 --> 00:33:21.371
And they're like,

00:33:21.912 --> 00:33:23.032
not a lot of people show up.

00:33:23.913 --> 00:33:26.154
And that's what happens.

00:33:26.474 --> 00:33:29.476
I always also look at that as, okay,

00:33:30.135 --> 00:33:32.457
where was the marketing from the LCS to

00:33:32.517 --> 00:33:34.617
announce this thing was happening?

00:33:35.738 --> 00:33:37.538
And it's a two-way street with that.

00:33:39.338 --> 00:33:41.019
Mom and pop shops aren't going to do

00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:42.599
what it takes to get that word of

00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:43.260
mouth out there.

00:33:43.300 --> 00:33:45.040
So if it doesn't do good that first

00:33:45.060 --> 00:33:45.942
year they attempt it,

00:33:46.382 --> 00:33:47.721
they're not going to come back a second

00:33:47.741 --> 00:33:50.502
year to try it again because they wasted

00:33:50.542 --> 00:33:51.544
money on the first year.

00:33:52.003 --> 00:33:52.763
But

00:33:53.273 --> 00:33:56.134
but did you market it the proper way?

00:33:56.214 --> 00:33:57.295
And nine times out of ten,

00:33:57.315 --> 00:33:58.375
the answer is no.

00:33:58.895 --> 00:33:59.155
Yeah.

00:33:59.635 --> 00:34:02.237
I did one about a couple years back

00:34:02.297 --> 00:34:02.916
in Connecticut,

00:34:02.997 --> 00:34:05.397
and the guy marketed it really well,

00:34:05.857 --> 00:34:07.657
and it was a free comic book day

00:34:07.698 --> 00:34:07.939
event,

00:34:07.999 --> 00:34:09.458
and there were like fifteen of us there.

00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:10.818
It was a mini comic show in the

00:34:10.858 --> 00:34:11.519
back of his store,

00:34:11.539 --> 00:34:12.679
because he had a huge store.

00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.380
And it was like, I'm like, wow,

00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:16.061
this is busy.

00:34:16.181 --> 00:34:17.101
I made a lot of money.

00:34:17.380 --> 00:34:18.882
I've connected with a lot of people.

00:34:19.762 --> 00:34:21.262
And when you go to things like this,

00:34:21.302 --> 00:34:21.922
to be clear,

00:34:23.342 --> 00:34:24.724
When I say I made a lot of

00:34:24.844 --> 00:34:25.103
money,

00:34:25.143 --> 00:34:27.164
that just means that I got people

00:34:27.284 --> 00:34:28.784
interested in my stuff,

00:34:29.164 --> 00:34:30.246
which is really the goal.

00:34:30.945 --> 00:34:33.867
It's not about the revenue that you bring

00:34:33.967 --> 00:34:34.146
in.

00:34:34.507 --> 00:34:36.788
It's about how many new readers are you

00:34:36.827 --> 00:34:37.568
getting on board?

00:34:37.588 --> 00:34:38.949
Because at the end of the day,

00:34:39.289 --> 00:34:41.028
that's why we're making comics is for

00:34:41.068 --> 00:34:42.670
people to read them and for people to

00:34:42.710 --> 00:34:43.250
enjoy them.

00:34:43.929 --> 00:34:45.630
And those people lead to clicks on the

00:34:45.670 --> 00:34:46.291
website,

00:34:46.411 --> 00:34:48.132
which lead to sales on the website,

00:34:48.172 --> 00:34:48.692
which leads...

00:34:49.485 --> 00:34:50.686
Yeah.

00:34:50.746 --> 00:34:52.228
Our pockets being a little heavier.

00:34:52.750 --> 00:34:53.570
And that's what you want.

00:34:53.690 --> 00:34:55.835
And we were talking before we went live

00:34:56.576 --> 00:34:59.039
about how many people cannot give that two

00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:01.023
minute pitch on their comic book.

00:35:01.222 --> 00:35:02.284
And it's their comic book.

00:35:03.048 --> 00:35:04.509
Yeah.

00:35:04.528 --> 00:35:04.728
So, well,

00:35:04.748 --> 00:35:06.570
the other the other thing and I'll say

00:35:06.590 --> 00:35:08.010
this for all these people that have a

00:35:08.070 --> 00:35:09.291
problem with that at the show.

00:35:09.650 --> 00:35:10.771
Just remember one thing.

00:35:11.030 --> 00:35:11.271
OK,

00:35:11.731 --> 00:35:14.012
if you can get the information in

00:35:14.072 --> 00:35:14.891
somebody's hand,

00:35:14.992 --> 00:35:16.213
if they're so so about it,

00:35:16.592 --> 00:35:18.552
that doesn't mean just because they're not

00:35:18.592 --> 00:35:20.454
buying it from you today doesn't mean that

00:35:20.474 --> 00:35:21.653
they're not going to buy it from you.

00:35:22.148 --> 00:35:23.469
The last comic show I went to,

00:35:23.568 --> 00:35:25.068
I was packing up the car and my

00:35:25.108 --> 00:35:27.409
phone started blowing up because people

00:35:27.469 --> 00:35:29.670
were buying things that they, you know,

00:35:29.690 --> 00:35:32.192
the show closed earlier than they thought

00:35:32.311 --> 00:35:33.853
and they went on my website and went

00:35:33.893 --> 00:35:34.452
out and bought it.

00:35:34.913 --> 00:35:36.373
So that happens too.

00:35:36.414 --> 00:35:38.454
Yeah.

00:35:38.514 --> 00:35:40.936
So, fourteen years now,

00:35:41.936 --> 00:35:45.998
what does it actually take to sustain a

00:35:46.077 --> 00:35:48.599
publishing line over that long of a

00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:51.099
timeframe from an independent perspective?

00:35:55.686 --> 00:35:56.286
Five words.

00:35:56.347 --> 00:35:57.387
Don't quit your day job.

00:36:00.128 --> 00:36:01.268
That's why I have one.

00:36:01.289 --> 00:36:02.869
That's why people are like, hey,

00:36:02.909 --> 00:36:03.688
I shot you an email.

00:36:03.708 --> 00:36:04.570
I'm like, yeah, I know you did.

00:36:04.610 --> 00:36:05.750
I'll get to it when I get home.

00:36:05.909 --> 00:36:06.130
Right.

00:36:06.389 --> 00:36:06.570
Yeah.

00:36:06.630 --> 00:36:07.269
Most of us do.

00:36:07.329 --> 00:36:09.690
You know, big, big secret.

00:36:09.731 --> 00:36:11.751
Most of us don't do this full time.

00:36:11.811 --> 00:36:12.731
Can't do this full time.

00:36:12.751 --> 00:36:13.731
Would like to do it full time,

00:36:13.771 --> 00:36:14.152
but we don't.

00:36:14.172 --> 00:36:14.472
Oh, yeah.

00:36:15.393 --> 00:36:15.592
So.

00:36:17.061 --> 00:36:18.985
There's so many people that I try and

00:36:19.005 --> 00:36:21.427
counsel out of quitting their day job

00:36:21.467 --> 00:36:23.570
because they think they think that this is

00:36:23.612 --> 00:36:24.733
the path to success.

00:36:24.773 --> 00:36:26.175
They think that this is going to make

00:36:26.195 --> 00:36:26.615
them rich,

00:36:26.635 --> 00:36:27.838
that they're going to be the next big

00:36:27.878 --> 00:36:28.177
thing.

00:36:28.518 --> 00:36:30.300
Much like when I got into writing,

00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:31.822
I'm like, hey, world, here I am.

00:36:32.344 --> 00:36:35.387
You know, it just doesn't work that way.

00:36:36.347 --> 00:36:37.969
You have to take the ladder one rung

00:36:38.010 --> 00:36:38.570
at a time.

00:36:38.911 --> 00:36:40.351
And you're going to start from the bottom.

00:36:40.672 --> 00:36:42.414
No matter how much you want to start

00:36:42.434 --> 00:36:42.954
from the middle,

00:36:43.054 --> 00:36:44.195
you're going to start from the bottom.

00:36:44.677 --> 00:36:46.579
So what does it take?

00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:47.579
It takes patience.

00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:48.780
It takes a thick skin.

00:36:49.722 --> 00:36:52.164
Just because people walk away from your

00:36:52.204 --> 00:36:53.144
table at a show,

00:36:53.266 --> 00:36:54.547
either rudely or not rudely,

00:36:54.887 --> 00:36:57.028
You know, they're not rejecting you.

00:36:57.369 --> 00:36:59.371
Sometimes people are not nice about it

00:36:59.451 --> 00:36:59.731
either.

00:36:59.871 --> 00:37:01.371
And they're like, oh, this sucks.

00:37:01.431 --> 00:37:03.353
Or this is stupid.

00:37:03.574 --> 00:37:05.195
Or I've seen something like this before.

00:37:07.204 --> 00:37:08.186
it's used for people.

00:37:08.206 --> 00:37:09.987
There's no more new comic book ideas out

00:37:10.007 --> 00:37:10.228
there.

00:37:10.648 --> 00:37:11.248
No, there's not.

00:37:11.309 --> 00:37:12.730
It's been done in some way.

00:37:13.170 --> 00:37:14.271
Everything is something else.

00:37:14.291 --> 00:37:14.472
Yeah.

00:37:14.492 --> 00:37:17.313
So, um,

00:37:17.733 --> 00:37:19.356
one of the things that you have to

00:37:19.396 --> 00:37:22.599
remember is sometimes it's not about you.

00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:23.480
It's about them.

00:37:23.619 --> 00:37:25.981
It's about they, we had,

00:37:26.021 --> 00:37:27.903
we had an incident at a show, um,

00:37:28.543 --> 00:37:31.666
last year where somebody came up and said

00:37:31.827 --> 00:37:33.047
i could have done this better i i

00:37:33.088 --> 00:37:34.708
draw better than this or i do that

00:37:34.728 --> 00:37:37.010
i do better than this and it was

00:37:37.291 --> 00:37:39.373
it was a little upsetting and hurtful the

00:37:39.413 --> 00:37:41.474
way he was saying it so i talked

00:37:41.494 --> 00:37:43.155
to the two guys that i was with

00:37:43.195 --> 00:37:45.697
there and i said look i said this

00:37:45.737 --> 00:37:47.958
this wasn't about you or your artwork at

00:37:48.018 --> 00:37:48.179
all

00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.460
it was about him feeling bad about himself

00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.501
because he hasn't done this with his life

00:37:55.601 --> 00:37:59.362
and he wanted to clearly so because of

00:37:59.402 --> 00:38:02.043
that he makes himself feel better by

00:38:02.364 --> 00:38:04.923
saying bad things about you and so you

00:38:04.963 --> 00:38:05.925
have to have a little bit of a

00:38:05.985 --> 00:38:07.284
thick skin and a little bit of a

00:38:07.385 --> 00:38:11.726
patience to be able to understand that you

00:38:11.746 --> 00:38:13.927
know some sometimes people just take it

00:38:13.987 --> 00:38:15.686
out on you unfortunately and that's part

00:38:15.706 --> 00:38:17.307
of being look facing you know

00:38:18.248 --> 00:38:20.188
Because when you put your work out there,

00:38:20.248 --> 00:38:21.570
it's a very personal thing.

00:38:22.030 --> 00:38:23.630
And you're putting stories that you made

00:38:23.690 --> 00:38:23.951
out there.

00:38:23.971 --> 00:38:25.291
You're putting your work out there.

00:38:25.931 --> 00:38:28.251
Not everybody's going to be gracious about

00:38:28.271 --> 00:38:28.411
it.

00:38:30.052 --> 00:38:32.173
And I feel that so much.

00:38:34.894 --> 00:38:35.655
You're doing it too.

00:38:36.054 --> 00:38:37.335
You have media.

00:38:37.396 --> 00:38:38.817
It's just a different type of medium,

00:38:38.916 --> 00:38:40.376
but it's the same thing.

00:38:41.097 --> 00:38:44.099
And it's amazing to me the amount of,

00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:47.320
I don't want to say it's hate.

00:38:50.255 --> 00:38:52.536
It's just better or I should do this.

00:38:52.596 --> 00:38:54.635
I'm like, hey, please, I encourage you.

00:38:54.655 --> 00:38:55.916
If you need help, reach out.

00:38:56.036 --> 00:38:58.737
I will help you get started in what

00:38:58.896 --> 00:38:59.317
I do.

00:38:59.896 --> 00:39:01.617
And I will give every tip and every

00:39:01.657 --> 00:39:03.398
pointer and everything I've learned along

00:39:03.418 --> 00:39:03.797
the way.

00:39:04.637 --> 00:39:06.657
And if you're still around in a month,

00:39:06.878 --> 00:39:07.818
hey, cool.

00:39:08.858 --> 00:39:10.858
Yeah, it's it's not that easy.

00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:11.599
And, you know,

00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:14.579
not everybody has the patience to learn

00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:16.559
something and develop it as a craft.

00:39:18.041 --> 00:39:21.184
And I guess that's what it takes is

00:39:22.105 --> 00:39:23.585
having patience, having thick skin,

00:39:24.025 --> 00:39:25.007
having confidence,

00:39:25.646 --> 00:39:27.869
being daring enough to put yourself out

00:39:27.889 --> 00:39:31.291
there and wanting to learn and grow and

00:39:31.331 --> 00:39:32.492
develop along the way.

00:39:32.952 --> 00:39:35.614
And understand this stuff don't happen

00:39:35.693 --> 00:39:37.936
overnight.

00:39:37.976 --> 00:39:39.036
And when people go, oh, well,

00:39:39.056 --> 00:39:39.737
you're making money.

00:39:39.856 --> 00:39:40.657
Oh, no, I'm not.

00:39:41.293 --> 00:39:42.215
Yeah.

00:39:42.335 --> 00:39:43.836
And if I am making money off of

00:39:43.876 --> 00:39:43.936
it,

00:39:44.018 --> 00:39:46.601
it's off affiliate clicks from BCW and a

00:39:46.661 --> 00:39:48.083
few others that I have.

00:39:48.643 --> 00:39:48.923
Yes.

00:39:49.364 --> 00:39:50.465
And, and oh, by the way,

00:39:50.925 --> 00:39:51.887
for anybody out there,

00:39:51.907 --> 00:39:53.168
whoever wonders like, oh,

00:39:53.188 --> 00:39:54.731
how much does he get off a click?

00:39:55.231 --> 00:39:55.773
Two cents.

00:39:55.793 --> 00:39:56.353
Okay.

00:39:56.373 --> 00:39:56.474
Yeah.

00:39:56.833 --> 00:39:59.414
two cents and oh by the way i

00:39:59.434 --> 00:40:00.795
don't even i can't even take out the

00:40:00.815 --> 00:40:03.014
cash until i hit a certain dollar amount

00:40:03.074 --> 00:40:05.235
which is it's the same with comic books

00:40:05.376 --> 00:40:07.315
yeah it's the same with digital comic

00:40:07.335 --> 00:40:09.356
sales it's like there's a certain amount

00:40:09.396 --> 00:40:11.818
they take a commission after you take it

00:40:11.918 --> 00:40:15.097
out yeah i know i mean if somebody

00:40:15.137 --> 00:40:17.259
buys something from the site then yes i

00:40:17.298 --> 00:40:18.838
do get a little bit more but it's

00:40:18.858 --> 00:40:20.159
not that much more it's a couple of

00:40:20.179 --> 00:40:21.960
bucks yeah but exactly

00:40:24.164 --> 00:40:24.485
Exactly.

00:40:24.505 --> 00:40:25.389
You have this affiliate thing and...

00:40:28.945 --> 00:40:29.045
No,

00:40:29.144 --> 00:40:30.865
all the subscriptions to the software that

00:40:30.885 --> 00:40:32.485
you have to pay for and all of

00:40:32.505 --> 00:40:33.586
that stuff, you know,

00:40:33.626 --> 00:40:35.367
it's probably barely covering those costs.

00:40:35.786 --> 00:40:36.708
They don't cover anything.

00:40:37.168 --> 00:40:37.427
Okay.

00:40:37.467 --> 00:40:38.929
There you go.

00:40:39.048 --> 00:40:40.528
I literally just got it.

00:40:41.088 --> 00:40:43.510
So it's one of those where I just

00:40:43.550 --> 00:40:43.889
got this.

00:40:43.929 --> 00:40:44.389
Hey, people,

00:40:44.429 --> 00:40:46.130
go click this link and go buy stuff

00:40:46.150 --> 00:40:46.771
from the website.

00:40:46.871 --> 00:40:48.972
Get ten percent off, please.

00:40:48.992 --> 00:40:49.692
And thank you.

00:40:49.831 --> 00:40:50.552
And, you know,

00:40:50.612 --> 00:40:53.173
it's like people are people in their head

00:40:53.193 --> 00:40:53.873
have this certain thing.

00:40:55.286 --> 00:40:56.487
Like it's a number in their head.

00:40:56.547 --> 00:40:58.268
And for, in this instance,

00:40:58.307 --> 00:40:59.489
it's ten thousand, right?

00:40:59.849 --> 00:41:00.869
Yeah.

00:41:00.889 --> 00:41:03.190
Ten thousand followers across your

00:41:03.210 --> 00:41:03.951
platforms.

00:41:04.050 --> 00:41:05.831
That's when they start to take notice and

00:41:05.871 --> 00:41:08.773
start willing to be, hey,

00:41:08.793 --> 00:41:10.034
you run my advertisements.

00:41:10.074 --> 00:41:12.514
This is what I will pay you.

00:41:12.594 --> 00:41:14.056
And I'm working toward that number right

00:41:14.096 --> 00:41:14.376
now.

00:41:14.536 --> 00:41:17.536
It's just not easy to do.

00:41:18.358 --> 00:41:19.617
And people think, oh,

00:41:19.697 --> 00:41:21.898
I'm charismatic and I'm this and I'm like,

00:41:21.938 --> 00:41:22.659
hey, that's cool, man.

00:41:23.643 --> 00:41:24.943
But can you market yourself?

00:41:25.483 --> 00:41:26.764
Can you market your product?

00:41:29.164 --> 00:41:30.965
Do your friends and family give a damn

00:41:31.005 --> 00:41:32.186
what you're trying to do?

00:41:32.326 --> 00:41:33.905
Will they support you in this?

00:41:35.166 --> 00:41:38.027
Because all of that matters is do you

00:41:38.068 --> 00:41:39.248
have that kind of support?

00:41:39.728 --> 00:41:40.307
And thankfully,

00:41:40.447 --> 00:41:42.369
I came into this with a support system

00:41:42.429 --> 00:41:42.949
in place.

00:41:43.710 --> 00:41:44.789
I have a lot of

00:41:45.831 --> 00:41:47.192
people who are very smart and very

00:41:47.211 --> 00:41:48.413
knowledgeable in this.

00:41:48.932 --> 00:41:50.094
But the rest of it was up to

00:41:50.153 --> 00:41:50.494
me.

00:41:50.954 --> 00:41:52.155
Can I market this?

00:41:52.695 --> 00:41:56.119
Can I get people willingly to come on

00:41:56.338 --> 00:41:58.940
this podcast to sell people their

00:41:58.960 --> 00:41:59.561
products?

00:42:00.041 --> 00:42:00.862
And at the end of the day,

00:42:00.882 --> 00:42:01.463
that's what I do.

00:42:01.543 --> 00:42:03.525
I provide a platform for people to sell

00:42:03.565 --> 00:42:05.565
their products on and to pitch themselves

00:42:05.626 --> 00:42:07.827
to you for you to become a new

00:42:07.867 --> 00:42:09.670
fan of them and vice versa.

00:42:10.751 --> 00:42:13.114
and it's fun i don't care either way

00:42:13.213 --> 00:42:15.034
i get to talk to to lynn here

00:42:15.094 --> 00:42:16.896
i get to talk to donald last night

00:42:17.416 --> 00:42:19.097
i get to talk to all these amazing

00:42:19.137 --> 00:42:22.440
creators and get their stories out there

00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:24.882
for everybody to hear and to listen to

00:42:25.322 --> 00:42:27.445
and to enjoy as much as i enjoy

00:42:27.684 --> 00:42:30.186
pulling the stories from people whether

00:42:30.226 --> 00:42:32.768
it's a bridge the abridged version or the

00:42:32.829 --> 00:42:34.889
edited version of the story right lynn

00:42:34.929 --> 00:42:35.010
yeah

00:42:36.137 --> 00:42:39.304
So this is what I tell my guys

00:42:39.324 --> 00:42:39.824
and I'll tell you.

00:42:40.264 --> 00:42:40.326
OK,

00:42:40.987 --> 00:42:46.076
so this is because I think your your

00:42:46.295 --> 00:42:48.639
show falls into the same category.

00:42:49.490 --> 00:42:51.413
So when I create comics, I say,

00:42:51.753 --> 00:42:53.414
this is my statue in the park.

00:42:53.655 --> 00:42:54.976
This is what I'm famous for.

00:42:55.295 --> 00:42:57.237
I've contributed something to pop culture

00:42:57.498 --> 00:42:58.978
that is going to outlive me.

00:42:58.998 --> 00:42:59.900
All right.

00:43:00.340 --> 00:43:02.282
So, fifty years from now,

00:43:02.402 --> 00:43:03.623
somebody will be looking with their

00:43:03.682 --> 00:43:05.123
holographic, you know,

00:43:05.284 --> 00:43:06.346
Apple Watch version.

00:43:08.608 --> 00:43:11.030
And it'll display my comic book and

00:43:11.050 --> 00:43:12.451
they'll be able to read it and scroll

00:43:12.530 --> 00:43:13.331
through it like that.

00:43:13.411 --> 00:43:14.572
And they'll be doing the same thing with

00:43:14.592 --> 00:43:15.373
your podcast.

00:43:15.514 --> 00:43:16.034
And, you know,

00:43:16.114 --> 00:43:18.596
it's outlived us and it's amused somebody

00:43:18.655 --> 00:43:19.436
else in the future.

00:43:19.536 --> 00:43:21.739
So this is our this is our shot

00:43:21.818 --> 00:43:24.240
of doing something to, you know,

00:43:24.702 --> 00:43:27.945
make this pop culture of ours matter.

00:43:28.907 --> 00:43:29.288
Yeah,

00:43:29.608 --> 00:43:31.668
and what I always say is I'm giving

00:43:31.688 --> 00:43:34.010
back to the industry that I love so

00:43:34.070 --> 00:43:36.449
much, which is indie comic books.

00:43:37.170 --> 00:43:39.090
And getting to talk to indie creators is

00:43:39.231 --> 00:43:39.811
so fun.

00:43:40.070 --> 00:43:40.451
And people,

00:43:40.490 --> 00:43:42.072
if you're at a convention and you see

00:43:42.092 --> 00:43:44.032
an indie comic book creator just sitting

00:43:44.052 --> 00:43:45.373
there bored off his ass,

00:43:47.675 --> 00:43:50.117
go get their story because their story is

00:43:50.157 --> 00:43:52.920
going to blow you away with how this

00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:53.400
happened.

00:43:53.902 --> 00:43:57.505
The passion they bring to storytelling is

00:43:57.684 --> 00:43:58.125
some of the,

00:43:58.806 --> 00:44:01.088
the best energy that you could soak in.

00:44:01.809 --> 00:44:03.610
And I get to do it so often.

00:44:03.769 --> 00:44:05.150
And it's so fun for me to get

00:44:05.190 --> 00:44:06.753
to do this and talk to people.

00:44:07.233 --> 00:44:09.235
Like I can't explain how,

00:44:09.375 --> 00:44:12.277
like the adrenaline rush i have sitting

00:44:12.297 --> 00:44:15.177
here talking to people that goes well

00:44:15.318 --> 00:44:17.760
after the show ends of course you know

00:44:17.780 --> 00:44:18.900
you crash because you're riding that

00:44:18.940 --> 00:44:20.340
adrenaline high you're gonna crash

00:44:20.402 --> 00:44:22.682
eventually you're gonna sleep like a baby

00:44:23.322 --> 00:44:26.164
but um but

00:44:28.976 --> 00:44:29.577
So I got asked, though,

00:44:29.697 --> 00:44:31.539
how do you decide which of your projects

00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:33.902
will get made and like which artists are

00:44:34.023 --> 00:44:35.786
collaborators that you work with?

00:44:36.226 --> 00:44:37.929
Do you have like your little inner circle

00:44:37.949 --> 00:44:39.311
there where you all get together on a

00:44:39.391 --> 00:44:40.932
Zoom or whatever it is?

00:44:41.032 --> 00:44:43.336
And we're like, no, what are we doing?

00:44:43.896 --> 00:44:45.217
It's not like that at all.

00:44:46.338 --> 00:44:47.697
It's been a lot of trial and error,

00:44:47.737 --> 00:44:50.659
I'll be honest.

00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:52.599
With Phil Miller, it's just a natural fit.

00:44:53.018 --> 00:44:54.940
He's got that classic Silver Age style.

00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:56.099
I don't know if you got a chance

00:44:56.119 --> 00:44:57.139
to look at some of the comics.

00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:00.621
I did get a chance to finally figure

00:45:00.641 --> 00:45:02.280
out how to make the passwords and stuff

00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:02.601
work,

00:45:02.621 --> 00:45:04.282
so I was able to get my eyes

00:45:04.342 --> 00:45:05.121
on a few of them.

00:45:06.362 --> 00:45:08.163
Some of the links,

00:45:08.523 --> 00:45:10.043
I would download the covers and they would

00:45:10.083 --> 00:45:10.762
be this big,

00:45:11.503 --> 00:45:12.724
so I would try to blow it back

00:45:12.884 --> 00:45:13.043
up.

00:45:13.583 --> 00:45:13.903
Yeah.

00:45:14.005 --> 00:45:16.065
Make it something I could use and it

00:45:16.086 --> 00:45:17.708
would just distort it so bad.

00:45:17.748 --> 00:45:19.108
So I had to go to Facebook and

00:45:19.128 --> 00:45:20.371
grab a couple from there.

00:45:20.911 --> 00:45:21.552
I grabbed your,

00:45:22.351 --> 00:45:24.974
the innovations press thing from there and

00:45:24.994 --> 00:45:27.516
just use that to kind of advertise that,

00:45:27.577 --> 00:45:28.938
Hey, you're going to be on here tonight.

00:45:29.458 --> 00:45:30.800
And I use the same ones when I

00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:32.282
go to make these clips as well.

00:45:32.461 --> 00:45:32.561
Yeah.

00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:37.181
We have two free comics online that you

00:45:37.221 --> 00:45:38.221
can totally read.

00:45:38.260 --> 00:45:40.081
I'm not looking for anybody's information

00:45:40.121 --> 00:45:40.960
or anything like that.

00:45:41.001 --> 00:45:43.021
So it's like you can just go read

00:45:43.041 --> 00:45:43.161
them.

00:45:43.222 --> 00:45:45.081
So that works out really well.

00:45:45.121 --> 00:45:48.103
But Phil had that natural Silver Age style

00:45:48.143 --> 00:45:49.023
for Section XII,

00:45:49.083 --> 00:45:51.023
and it's just become the defining look.

00:45:51.043 --> 00:45:52.043
So I was like, okay,

00:45:52.423 --> 00:45:54.003
we're going to give you...

00:45:54.744 --> 00:45:56.724
The Section XII flashback title is yours.

00:45:56.784 --> 00:45:57.945
Nobody else is going to take it.

00:45:58.505 --> 00:45:59.885
And that all...

00:46:01.123 --> 00:46:02.043
Once upon a time,

00:46:02.103 --> 00:46:04.224
we just did section twelve flashback and

00:46:04.264 --> 00:46:05.764
section twelve declassified.

00:46:05.905 --> 00:46:07.465
You know, we had two series.

00:46:07.485 --> 00:46:08.266
We had the modern day.

00:46:08.286 --> 00:46:09.646
We had the nineteen ninety four one.

00:46:10.047 --> 00:46:13.327
I finally found a guy in the Philippines.

00:46:13.367 --> 00:46:16.208
He was a artist for Upper Deck.

00:46:16.248 --> 00:46:17.409
He was doing trading cards.

00:46:17.628 --> 00:46:18.849
And I'm like, you know what?

00:46:19.168 --> 00:46:21.449
If I give this guy the right direction,

00:46:21.570 --> 00:46:23.630
I think he's he's got what it takes

00:46:23.670 --> 00:46:25.871
to give us that modern day look.

00:46:25.951 --> 00:46:27.351
And his name is Dominic Rancho.

00:46:27.411 --> 00:46:27.612
And he

00:46:28.052 --> 00:46:29.432
He's fantastic.

00:46:29.733 --> 00:46:30.414
He does that.

00:46:30.753 --> 00:46:31.273
So we'll,

00:46:31.434 --> 00:46:33.516
we'll go on Facebook and we'll chat for

00:46:33.896 --> 00:46:34.737
every once in a while.

00:46:34.817 --> 00:46:37.619
Phil and I text, um, you know,

00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:39.739
more than we actually talk on the phone,

00:46:40.081 --> 00:46:41.181
but, um, you know,

00:46:41.521 --> 00:46:43.023
those are the main two guys.

00:46:43.043 --> 00:46:43.663
And then we have,

00:46:44.123 --> 00:46:45.764
we've had a lot of people join us

00:46:45.844 --> 00:46:46.664
over the years.

00:46:46.804 --> 00:46:46.945
Um,

00:46:47.126 --> 00:46:48.726
some of them stuck and some of them

00:46:48.806 --> 00:46:51.668
don't, um, but that's okay too.

00:46:52.188 --> 00:46:52.769
But, um,

00:46:53.469 --> 00:46:56.150
We were we were sitting there and somebody

00:46:56.831 --> 00:46:58.590
a lot of my stories start with somebody

00:46:58.630 --> 00:46:59.831
came up to me at a show and

00:47:00.052 --> 00:47:00.331
asked.

00:47:00.891 --> 00:47:01.952
So somebody came up to me at a

00:47:01.972 --> 00:47:02.592
show and asked,

00:47:03.213 --> 00:47:04.512
is that all you do is section twelve?

00:47:04.532 --> 00:47:05.873
And I said, well, I have tracksuit man,

00:47:05.913 --> 00:47:06.173
too.

00:47:06.414 --> 00:47:07.974
And they're like, well, that's one book.

00:47:08.614 --> 00:47:10.454
And the secret of doing well at a

00:47:10.474 --> 00:47:13.896
show is having having a lot of things

00:47:13.956 --> 00:47:14.936
to sell to people.

00:47:15.949 --> 00:47:18.250
If you have one comic you can expect

00:47:18.269 --> 00:47:19.911
that somebody will come over to your table

00:47:19.990 --> 00:47:21.632
and buy one comic They're not gonna buy

00:47:21.711 --> 00:47:24.713
ten of the same comic So you can

00:47:24.992 --> 00:47:26.653
if ten people come over to your table

00:47:26.753 --> 00:47:29.034
You're going to make ten sales if you

00:47:29.074 --> 00:47:29.315
you know,

00:47:29.715 --> 00:47:31.695
if you sell your comic for five dollars

00:47:31.715 --> 00:47:33.277
a piece You're gonna make fifty dollars

00:47:33.317 --> 00:47:35.438
that day that that's just simple math.

00:47:35.858 --> 00:47:36.038
Yeah,

00:47:36.097 --> 00:47:37.798
so if you scale that up and you

00:47:37.838 --> 00:47:38.179
have a

00:47:38.619 --> 00:47:40.981
fifteen twenty twenty five comics at your

00:47:41.001 --> 00:47:43.322
table then you know the numbers get a

00:47:43.362 --> 00:47:46.583
little more real so i was looking at

00:47:46.623 --> 00:47:48.045
phil and i was saying you know we

00:47:48.065 --> 00:47:50.045
could do some other stuff and phil goes

00:47:50.226 --> 00:47:54.088
i want to draw cowboys so i'm like

00:47:54.188 --> 00:47:56.530
okay let me that's wild i just had

00:47:56.570 --> 00:47:59.592
this conversation at my lcs with um

00:48:00.432 --> 00:48:01.393
with the owner there.

00:48:02.193 --> 00:48:03.994
And I forgot what comic book it was,

00:48:04.054 --> 00:48:04.775
but I was like, dude,

00:48:04.795 --> 00:48:06.617
we need more cowboy comic books,

00:48:06.677 --> 00:48:07.637
like stuff like that.

00:48:07.677 --> 00:48:09.958
Whether it's like a sci-fi type of Western

00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:13.021
or just like apocalyptic type of Western,

00:48:13.041 --> 00:48:13.942
something like that.

00:48:14.541 --> 00:48:15.822
And then the following week,

00:48:16.402 --> 00:48:18.905
no kidding to come out like two separate

00:48:19.065 --> 00:48:19.324
ones.

00:48:19.344 --> 00:48:21.847
I think one from boom studios and one

00:48:21.887 --> 00:48:23.327
from a dark horse.

00:48:23.748 --> 00:48:24.608
Yeah.

00:48:24.688 --> 00:48:26.289
And I was just like, he was,

00:48:26.349 --> 00:48:27.050
he was holding them up.

00:48:27.090 --> 00:48:27.891
Like, yeah.

00:48:28.722 --> 00:48:29.762
Two of them come out, dude.

00:48:29.802 --> 00:48:31.103
He's like, I don't know what you did,

00:48:31.143 --> 00:48:32.264
but two of them come out.

00:48:33.525 --> 00:48:33.644
Yeah.

00:48:34.644 --> 00:48:36.565
So I was looking at public domain stuff.

00:48:36.646 --> 00:48:38.065
I think I mentioned that earlier on.

00:48:38.827 --> 00:48:41.146
And I was kind of like, well,

00:48:41.166 --> 00:48:41.568
you know,

00:48:42.047 --> 00:48:43.887
maybe I can just do something with one

00:48:43.907 --> 00:48:45.548
of these characters because it's free.

00:48:45.588 --> 00:48:46.748
It's already established.

00:48:47.570 --> 00:48:50.030
I don't have to craft this origin story.

00:48:50.471 --> 00:48:53.452
So I found Red Mask from Magazine

00:48:53.492 --> 00:48:54.152
Enterprises.

00:48:54.251 --> 00:48:56.152
So I made Red Mask Rides Again.

00:48:56.873 --> 00:48:59.474
And I did reprint the origin because the

00:48:59.514 --> 00:49:00.914
origin story was decent.

00:49:01.476 --> 00:49:03.797
And the whole thing of that book was

00:49:04.456 --> 00:49:06.478
Tim Holt was a cowboy star and they

00:49:06.498 --> 00:49:07.998
wanted to make him into a comic book

00:49:08.099 --> 00:49:08.760
superhero.

00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:10.400
But that's just, you know,

00:49:10.539 --> 00:49:11.940
it ran for a number of issues,

00:49:11.981 --> 00:49:13.722
but it was more Tim Holt centric than

00:49:13.782 --> 00:49:14.322
Red Mask.

00:49:14.362 --> 00:49:16.123
So I took the Tim Holt out of

00:49:16.163 --> 00:49:18.364
it and I made Red Mask rides again.

00:49:18.545 --> 00:49:18.704
Yeah.

00:49:19.224 --> 00:49:21.646
and um it's it's a great comic it's

00:49:21.706 --> 00:49:24.009
done well we're working on number two i'm

00:49:24.489 --> 00:49:26.311
very excited about that and then the other

00:49:26.391 --> 00:49:28.672
one i did was um wild west adventures

00:49:28.713 --> 00:49:31.454
of buffalo bill and phil made a face

00:49:31.494 --> 00:49:33.856
at me when i said that uh because

00:49:33.876 --> 00:49:35.277
he's like i like the idea of the

00:49:35.318 --> 00:49:37.039
red mask and i'm like okay i'll get

00:49:37.059 --> 00:49:38.559
somebody else to do buffalo bill so i

00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:40.802
found this guy with a very quirky and

00:49:40.882 --> 00:49:43.704
unique art style alexander bosick he's

00:49:43.764 --> 00:49:44.344
from um

00:49:46.103 --> 00:49:46.605
Serbia,

00:49:47.045 --> 00:49:49.590
and he does a great job on it.

00:49:50.190 --> 00:49:52.876
And it reimagines Buffalo Bill.

00:49:52.956 --> 00:49:54.940
Buffalo Bill had a Wild West show.

00:49:57.739 --> 00:50:00.199
that was very famous, and that's all true.

00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:02.500
But I changed it a little bit.

00:50:02.659 --> 00:50:04.641
I made it into a traveling Wild West

00:50:04.661 --> 00:50:04.920
show.

00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:06.581
So now he goes around the Old West,

00:50:06.661 --> 00:50:08.782
and he finds all of these things.

00:50:08.862 --> 00:50:09.121
Now,

00:50:09.742 --> 00:50:11.322
you're talking to a guy who doesn't like

00:50:11.362 --> 00:50:11.963
Westerns,

00:50:12.182 --> 00:50:14.043
so I wrote it more like that old

00:50:14.083 --> 00:50:15.684
TV show, The Wild Wild West,

00:50:15.724 --> 00:50:16.724
than I did the

00:50:17.425 --> 00:50:20.407
you know yeah a western show so um

00:50:20.628 --> 00:50:23.190
you know he he fights frankenstein he

00:50:23.251 --> 00:50:25.333
fights remember that old john wayne movie

00:50:25.373 --> 00:50:28.255
the war wagon oh yeah um yeah so

00:50:28.496 --> 00:50:29.976
somebody somebody resurrected you know

00:50:29.996 --> 00:50:33.641
what that reminds me of though is you

00:50:33.661 --> 00:50:35.342
can still find them every now and then

00:50:36.302 --> 00:50:38.125
and like dollar bins and stuff like that

00:50:38.144 --> 00:50:40.967
but the penny dreadfuls oh right yeah

00:50:42.012 --> 00:50:44.094
It was just a collection of stories like

00:50:44.114 --> 00:50:44.516
that.

00:50:45.536 --> 00:50:46.818
And then they made the TV series,

00:50:46.838 --> 00:50:48.161
which is really fantastic.

00:50:48.221 --> 00:50:50.083
I really love that TV series and was

00:50:50.123 --> 00:50:51.025
sad when it ended,

00:50:51.425 --> 00:50:52.947
but it ended on a good note and

00:50:52.987 --> 00:50:53.748
in the proper way.

00:50:54.690 --> 00:50:56.329
But I just think that's really cool.

00:50:56.349 --> 00:50:57.891
That's like one of some of my favorite

00:50:57.911 --> 00:50:59.530
types of stories where it's just fun and

00:50:59.570 --> 00:51:00.291
it's quirky.

00:51:00.371 --> 00:51:02.452
And why in the hell is Frankenstein's

00:51:02.512 --> 00:51:03.552
muster in a Western?

00:51:04.851 --> 00:51:05.373
Exactly.

00:51:05.492 --> 00:51:08.853
So I did that and I thought, hey,

00:51:09.492 --> 00:51:11.954
this is my chance because I love to

00:51:12.014 --> 00:51:13.353
hide Easter eggs in stories.

00:51:13.693 --> 00:51:15.355
I love to put hidden references in

00:51:15.394 --> 00:51:15.795
stories.

00:51:15.934 --> 00:51:16.375
And I'm like,

00:51:16.855 --> 00:51:18.755
how many hidden references can I actually

00:51:18.835 --> 00:51:19.456
put in there?

00:51:20.215 --> 00:51:23.297
And this stuff is just full of it.

00:51:26.336 --> 00:51:27.838
It was getting to be,

00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:29.242
and I'm going to segue on to something

00:51:29.282 --> 00:51:29.681
else now.

00:51:30.362 --> 00:51:32.246
It was getting to be a bit cumbersome

00:51:32.346 --> 00:51:34.068
having all of these Easter eggs and hidden

00:51:34.108 --> 00:51:36.112
references because I'd have to burn so

00:51:36.132 --> 00:51:38.414
many pages to tell people where they were.

00:51:39.244 --> 00:51:41.865
So, you know, when you're telling a story,

00:51:42.425 --> 00:51:43.206
pages are money.

00:51:43.407 --> 00:51:44.987
And it's like,

00:51:45.108 --> 00:51:47.128
I don't want to have eight pages of

00:51:47.248 --> 00:51:49.329
exposition to say in the last issue,

00:51:49.369 --> 00:51:50.050
did you see this?

00:51:50.130 --> 00:51:50.771
Did you see this?

00:51:50.831 --> 00:51:51.771
Did you see this?

00:51:52.452 --> 00:51:55.914
So I decided that I would follow in

00:51:55.954 --> 00:52:00.317
your footsteps, before I even knew you,

00:52:00.876 --> 00:52:04.719
to make a video and a video explainer

00:52:04.780 --> 00:52:04.920
of that.

00:52:05.797 --> 00:52:08.681
So I and I'm going to segue on

00:52:08.722 --> 00:52:10.525
to another story about how I created my

00:52:10.646 --> 00:52:12.969
own YouTube videos and things like that

00:52:13.030 --> 00:52:14.152
and how I do it.

00:52:14.351 --> 00:52:15.373
It's fairly unique.

00:52:17.445 --> 00:52:19.487
I went in and I dressed up my

00:52:19.568 --> 00:52:21.309
basement like a comic show.

00:52:21.650 --> 00:52:22.992
So I had all my banners and I

00:52:23.012 --> 00:52:25.054
had tables and everything and I did it

00:52:25.094 --> 00:52:26.635
over there and I put my iPad up

00:52:26.695 --> 00:52:28.297
and I'm like, okay, I'm going to record.

00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:30.561
And I'm like, hi everybody, this is Len.

00:52:30.601 --> 00:52:31.521
And I'm, you know,

00:52:31.581 --> 00:52:32.842
I'm here to talk to you about the

00:52:32.902 --> 00:52:34.445
Wild West Adventures of Buffalo Bill.

00:52:34.465 --> 00:52:35.266
Did you see this?

00:52:35.326 --> 00:52:35.806
And, and,

00:52:36.724 --> 00:52:39.164
And I showed it to my kids and

00:52:39.204 --> 00:52:40.945
you could hear them laughing from down the

00:52:40.965 --> 00:52:41.925
street.

00:52:41.945 --> 00:52:42.445
They said,

00:52:42.905 --> 00:52:45.585
this is like you were taken hostage and

00:52:45.945 --> 00:52:47.666
we have to buy your comic books to

00:52:47.726 --> 00:52:48.586
get you free.

00:52:49.586 --> 00:52:51.887
And so they just thought it was- I

00:52:51.907 --> 00:52:53.307
actually kind of liked that concept.

00:52:53.628 --> 00:52:54.007
Yeah.

00:52:56.829 --> 00:52:59.528
So much for my video career.

00:52:59.548 --> 00:53:00.730
I'm kind of like, okay,

00:53:00.789 --> 00:53:01.789
I'm all done with this.

00:53:02.666 --> 00:53:05.027
And that sat on the shelf for a

00:53:05.086 --> 00:53:05.686
couple of years.

00:53:05.706 --> 00:53:06.047
And I'm like,

00:53:06.106 --> 00:53:07.146
I don't know how I'm going to get

00:53:07.166 --> 00:53:07.246
it.

00:53:07.887 --> 00:53:09.467
I'm just going to have to do like

00:53:09.487 --> 00:53:10.967
a book or something with all the Easter

00:53:11.047 --> 00:53:11.927
eggs in it or something.

00:53:12.068 --> 00:53:12.467
I don't know.

00:53:12.487 --> 00:53:13.788
I'm just going to put that on the

00:53:13.807 --> 00:53:14.148
shelf.

00:53:14.708 --> 00:53:17.208
So then you're going to hate this word,

00:53:17.248 --> 00:53:20.610
but some of these AI programs came out.

00:53:21.150 --> 00:53:25.030
So I was able to use an AI

00:53:25.070 --> 00:53:25.590
program.

00:53:26.300 --> 00:53:28.262
and manipulate it to the point where I

00:53:28.322 --> 00:53:33.246
had two podcast hosts talking about my

00:53:33.286 --> 00:53:33.945
comic book.

00:53:34.266 --> 00:53:35.847
I fed it in all of the details.

00:53:35.887 --> 00:53:37.248
I gave it every single Easter egg.

00:53:37.289 --> 00:53:38.130
I gave it all of that.

00:53:38.831 --> 00:53:41.972
And the banter that went back and forth

00:53:42.052 --> 00:53:43.114
was what was missing.

00:53:43.173 --> 00:53:45.235
So rather than hearing me drone on and

00:53:45.315 --> 00:53:46.177
on about comics,

00:53:46.597 --> 00:53:48.998
it really took just two people talking

00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:51.800
about it to make the same content

00:53:51.981 --> 00:53:52.521
interesting.

00:53:53.489 --> 00:53:56.731
So I created Indie Comics Deep Dive with

00:53:56.771 --> 00:53:58.931
Mona and Sam and Mona and Sam are

00:53:58.952 --> 00:54:01.213
my virtual hosts and they go on and

00:54:01.253 --> 00:54:03.072
they will tell you what all the Easter

00:54:03.132 --> 00:54:05.574
eggs in Buffalo Bill number one are and

00:54:05.614 --> 00:54:07.275
they will point it out and.

00:54:08.702 --> 00:54:09.744
I like the concept.

00:54:11.025 --> 00:54:12.547
I'm not a fan of AI,

00:54:12.588 --> 00:54:15.110
but if AI is used ethically for the

00:54:15.170 --> 00:54:17.554
right reasons, it could be... It's a tool,

00:54:17.614 --> 00:54:17.914
right?

00:54:17.934 --> 00:54:20.438
It is a tool.

00:54:20.719 --> 00:54:22.340
I'm not ripping off any artists because

00:54:22.420 --> 00:54:23.902
I'm using my own art.

00:54:24.304 --> 00:54:24.684
Art that I...

00:54:25.284 --> 00:54:26.827
that I either made or bought and paid

00:54:26.847 --> 00:54:27.067
for.

00:54:27.487 --> 00:54:28.628
So I have perfect,

00:54:28.949 --> 00:54:30.090
I have perfect rights to use it.

00:54:30.150 --> 00:54:32.333
I'm not saying like create an image of

00:54:32.393 --> 00:54:34.376
Buffalo bill doing this, you know, it's,

00:54:34.936 --> 00:54:36.717
it's all my own stuff in there that,

00:54:36.878 --> 00:54:38.701
you know, has been bought and paid for.

00:54:38.860 --> 00:54:41.643
So we have a lot of fun with

00:54:41.684 --> 00:54:41.864
that.

00:54:42.284 --> 00:54:43.126
And yeah,

00:54:44.835 --> 00:54:47.998
Every comic will have its own show.

00:54:48.619 --> 00:54:49.360
And like you,

00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:51.001
it takes me a very long time to

00:54:51.041 --> 00:54:51.440
do them.

00:54:51.661 --> 00:54:52.681
I'm not as quick as you are.

00:54:53.123 --> 00:54:55.324
But it's a lot of fun.

00:54:55.385 --> 00:54:57.005
We have a small but mighty following.

00:54:58.387 --> 00:55:00.789
When I stop doing them and I focus

00:55:00.829 --> 00:55:01.429
on comics,

00:55:01.789 --> 00:55:03.411
I start getting emails from people like,

00:55:03.451 --> 00:55:04.552
when's the next show coming out?

00:55:04.952 --> 00:55:06.753
So I know that there's some interest

00:55:06.793 --> 00:55:07.755
there, which is great.

00:55:08.896 --> 00:55:09.436
So it's...

00:55:10.717 --> 00:55:13.137
I'm not in the podcast business per se.

00:55:13.297 --> 00:55:16.579
I'm just in the business of promoting the

00:55:16.619 --> 00:55:18.780
Lenovations Press brand.

00:55:20.081 --> 00:55:21.880
It's another way of connecting with our

00:55:21.940 --> 00:55:24.481
readers to give them a little bit behind

00:55:24.501 --> 00:55:28.884
the scenes.

00:55:29.523 --> 00:55:31.384
If it works, it works, right?

00:55:33.284 --> 00:55:34.246
Do I want to see it in my

00:55:34.286 --> 00:55:34.905
comic books?

00:55:34.985 --> 00:55:35.806
Absolutely not.

00:55:35.885 --> 00:55:37.686
But in the way you're doing it,

00:55:37.827 --> 00:55:38.027
it's fine.

00:55:39.331 --> 00:55:40.273
Is it hurting anybody?

00:55:40.592 --> 00:55:40.972
No.

00:55:41.492 --> 00:55:42.594
And if people are going, hey,

00:55:42.634 --> 00:55:43.494
when's the next one?

00:55:44.094 --> 00:55:45.436
You're probably on to something and you're

00:55:45.456 --> 00:55:46.856
probably doing it right.

00:55:46.976 --> 00:55:48.157
Yeah.

00:55:49.097 --> 00:55:52.699
So what we're working on now is Mona

00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:54.722
and Sam, the fictitious characters,

00:55:55.262 --> 00:55:57.342
are going to have their own comic book

00:55:57.762 --> 00:55:59.344
where they're going to interview all the

00:55:59.384 --> 00:56:01.186
Lenovations Press characters on their

00:56:01.226 --> 00:56:02.626
fictitious podcast show.

00:56:02.686 --> 00:56:04.608
So how is that for three levels of

00:56:04.648 --> 00:56:04.847
meta?

00:56:06.784 --> 00:56:07.706
That's actually kind of cool.

00:56:07.985 --> 00:56:09.487
It's a pretty cool concept, actually.

00:56:09.507 --> 00:56:09.666
Yeah.

00:56:10.286 --> 00:56:12.608
Where they're interviewing Wild West Bill

00:56:12.728 --> 00:56:14.309
and, you know,

00:56:14.568 --> 00:56:16.309
Tracksuit Man would be interesting.

00:56:16.909 --> 00:56:17.070
Yeah.

00:56:17.130 --> 00:56:18.630
Tracksuit Man is going to be on there

00:56:18.791 --> 00:56:21.393
and Batter from Section Twelve and,

00:56:21.672 --> 00:56:22.132
you know,

00:56:22.172 --> 00:56:24.914
somebody else from Section Twelve and the

00:56:25.074 --> 00:56:26.175
Fantastic Fanboys.

00:56:26.215 --> 00:56:28.076
So there's a lot of there's a lot

00:56:28.115 --> 00:56:30.137
of stuff that is going on.

00:56:31.016 --> 00:56:31.697
So let me ask,

00:56:31.717 --> 00:56:33.818
what do you think is the biggest mistake

00:56:34.259 --> 00:56:36.239
indie creators are making?

00:56:39.135 --> 00:56:40.579
I think you touched on it earlier.

00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:41.922
I think that they are going to give

00:56:41.981 --> 00:56:42.684
up too soon.

00:56:44.065 --> 00:56:45.969
I think that if you...

00:56:46.923 --> 00:56:49.724
one issue you print it you you lay

00:56:49.764 --> 00:56:51.425
out a dozen of them on the table

00:56:51.985 --> 00:56:53.686
why did i only make fifty bucks this

00:56:53.706 --> 00:56:56.007
show because you only had one comic to

00:56:56.088 --> 00:56:58.329
sell and you're you're getting ten bucks a

00:56:58.369 --> 00:57:00.851
piece and only five people bought them um

00:57:01.570 --> 00:57:04.411
so i think that they're you know they

00:57:04.431 --> 00:57:06.413
pay a hundred two hundred dollars to have

00:57:06.432 --> 00:57:08.134
a table of the show for the weekend

00:57:08.273 --> 00:57:10.675
they don't sell a lot that's being

00:57:10.715 --> 00:57:12.255
generous it could be more

00:57:12.856 --> 00:57:14.856
yeah so they don't sell a lot they

00:57:14.876 --> 00:57:17.557
don't make a lot and they give up

00:57:18.237 --> 00:57:20.699
and they go on to something else and

00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:22.099
they try something else and they try

00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:23.621
something else like one of these is

00:57:23.701 --> 00:57:26.802
magically going to hit and you got to

00:57:26.822 --> 00:57:30.543
put in the work i mean it's it's

00:57:30.623 --> 00:57:32.684
not i've been doing this for you know

00:57:32.905 --> 00:57:36.306
over a decade now and i'm you know

00:57:36.427 --> 00:57:38.867
yeah it pays for itself uh i'm not

00:57:38.947 --> 00:57:41.268
super famous at it but it's like

00:57:42.253 --> 00:57:45.396
You've got to find that it's rewarding for

00:57:45.556 --> 00:57:46.958
its own sake.

00:57:47.099 --> 00:57:49.021
Yeah.

00:57:49.061 --> 00:57:50.282
So beyond Kickstarter,

00:57:50.302 --> 00:57:51.744
because you've never used Kickstarter

00:57:51.764 --> 00:57:54.568
yourself or Indiegogo or anything like

00:57:54.608 --> 00:57:54.907
that.

00:57:55.367 --> 00:57:56.148
Patreon.

00:57:56.349 --> 00:57:57.170
I use Patreon.

00:57:58.817 --> 00:58:01.199
Patreon is a subscription based because

00:58:01.219 --> 00:58:02.800
they have a pay as you go model.

00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:05.541
And that way people,

00:58:05.902 --> 00:58:08.304
people can not only support me,

00:58:08.704 --> 00:58:10.585
but they get, you know,

00:58:10.704 --> 00:58:11.885
inside scoop on things.

00:58:11.965 --> 00:58:12.186
I get,

00:58:12.327 --> 00:58:13.847
I get them peaks every month on,

00:58:14.068 --> 00:58:15.708
on artwork that's ongoing.

00:58:16.028 --> 00:58:17.891
Like the text between me and Phil are

00:58:18.050 --> 00:58:19.472
art based a lot.

00:58:19.572 --> 00:58:21.072
And I'll just put those up on Patreon

00:58:21.092 --> 00:58:21.353
and say,

00:58:21.393 --> 00:58:22.893
this is what we're working on right now.

00:58:23.315 --> 00:58:23.514
You know,

00:58:24.335 --> 00:58:25.715
Um, so that's great.

00:58:25.996 --> 00:58:29.396
And then I'll build them when a comic

00:58:29.416 --> 00:58:29.976
comes out.

00:58:30.518 --> 00:58:32.117
This was the last one that comes out.

00:58:32.838 --> 00:58:34.539
And for the print customers,

00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:35.820
if I'm mailing something,

00:58:36.380 --> 00:58:37.740
I'm going to stuff something else in that

00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:38.380
envelope too,

00:58:38.420 --> 00:58:40.922
because it doesn't cost me any extra to

00:58:40.942 --> 00:58:41.481
postage.

00:58:41.802 --> 00:58:43.083
So I'm like, if I,

00:58:43.422 --> 00:58:44.822
if I have another comic that I know

00:58:44.842 --> 00:58:45.423
you don't have,

00:58:45.503 --> 00:58:46.543
I'm going to stuff that in there too.

00:58:46.563 --> 00:58:48.284
Oh, that's really cool.

00:58:48.864 --> 00:58:49.184
Yeah.

00:58:49.405 --> 00:58:50.646
So beyond that, um,

00:58:52.255 --> 00:58:54.476
Where do you think creators should focus

00:58:54.516 --> 00:58:56.896
their time beyond the Kickstarters and

00:58:57.456 --> 00:59:00.378
beyond Indiegogos and that kind of stuff?

00:59:00.797 --> 00:59:02.778
I know Patreon is a great asset for

00:59:02.818 --> 00:59:05.458
people if they can use it correctly and

00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:06.539
understand that.

00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:11.340
Fifty dollars for a subscription to you to

00:59:11.380 --> 00:59:14.240
post sneak peeks of your your work or

00:59:14.260 --> 00:59:16.842
your writing, it's not worth fifty bucks.

00:59:18.304 --> 00:59:19.626
I'm just putting it out there for people.

00:59:21.186 --> 00:59:22.929
And I like to follow some creators on

00:59:22.949 --> 00:59:23.188
there.

00:59:23.989 --> 00:59:25.250
And if I see you're charging,

00:59:25.269 --> 00:59:27.391
trying to charge me fifty bucks for and

00:59:27.411 --> 00:59:29.233
you only put out one thing a month,

00:59:29.253 --> 00:59:31.755
I'm not coming back to it.

00:59:32.376 --> 00:59:33.956
No, of course not.

00:59:33.976 --> 00:59:35.498
You're probably going to get a nasty gram

00:59:35.538 --> 00:59:38.380
from me going bus for one post a

00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:38.721
month.

00:59:38.981 --> 00:59:39.802
No.

00:59:39.882 --> 00:59:40.061
Yeah.

00:59:41.586 --> 00:59:42.588
But, you know,

00:59:42.909 --> 00:59:45.652
it's it's like and I'm I'm a big

00:59:45.692 --> 00:59:47.835
proponent of the free memberships, too.

00:59:47.894 --> 00:59:48.114
I mean,

00:59:48.135 --> 00:59:49.737
we have more free people than anything.

00:59:50.197 --> 00:59:51.179
And all you got to do is sign

00:59:51.199 --> 00:59:53.260
up for free and you'll you'll see these

00:59:53.300 --> 00:59:55.282
sneak peeks and these art art pics and

00:59:55.304 --> 00:59:55.824
things like that.

00:59:56.264 --> 00:59:57.847
So, you know, why not?

00:59:59.427 --> 00:59:59.809
I'm not.

01:00:00.548 --> 01:00:02.690
I'm not after anything other than

01:00:02.851 --> 01:00:03.891
increasing the brand.

01:00:03.931 --> 01:00:05.193
And I think that's what people should

01:00:05.253 --> 01:00:05.853
focus on.

01:00:06.333 --> 01:00:08.094
What's the best way you can increase your

01:00:08.114 --> 01:00:08.476
brand?

01:00:08.576 --> 01:00:10.097
Like Global Comics,

01:00:10.157 --> 01:00:12.579
DriveThru Comics are two digital platforms

01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:13.460
that I use.

01:00:14.681 --> 01:00:16.202
Do I make a ton of money on

01:00:16.222 --> 01:00:16.362
them?

01:00:16.541 --> 01:00:16.862
No.

01:00:17.021 --> 01:00:19.284
And it's because of how their model is

01:00:19.324 --> 01:00:19.644
set up.

01:00:19.684 --> 01:00:21.425
It's not that I'm not selling a lot

01:00:21.465 --> 01:00:21.686
there.

01:00:22.007 --> 01:00:23.547
It's just that they don't pay a lot.

01:00:24.373 --> 01:00:25.532
Um, and,

01:00:25.652 --> 01:00:27.353
and know that as you go in,

01:00:27.534 --> 01:00:29.393
you know, it's, it's like, again,

01:00:29.514 --> 01:00:30.635
you know, your penny a click,

01:00:30.934 --> 01:00:32.235
you're happy to get the penny.

01:00:32.275 --> 01:00:34.295
You're happy to get the click because,

01:00:34.414 --> 01:00:34.655
you know,

01:00:35.036 --> 01:00:36.695
it drives traffic around and that's what

01:00:36.715 --> 01:00:37.476
you're here to do.

01:00:38.195 --> 01:00:41.217
Um, but you know, is there,

01:00:41.677 --> 01:00:44.697
if there were a magic way to do

01:00:44.717 --> 01:00:46.018
this and be successful at it,

01:00:46.097 --> 01:00:47.639
I'd already be doing it right now.

01:00:47.699 --> 01:00:48.599
I wouldn't be trying.

01:00:48.619 --> 01:00:48.778
Yeah.

01:00:50.418 --> 01:00:51.760
So, and,

01:00:51.780 --> 01:00:53.440
and now I'm going to segue again.

01:00:55.128 --> 01:00:58.389
So if you read my comic book,

01:01:00.510 --> 01:01:02.630
section twelve, flashback number one,

01:01:02.670 --> 01:01:04.791
which is the story that started it all.

01:01:05.190 --> 01:01:07.170
It's a cool twenty two page story about,

01:01:07.630 --> 01:01:07.851
you know,

01:01:07.891 --> 01:01:10.592
somebody who who turns into a monster and

01:01:10.612 --> 01:01:11.331
gets abducted.

01:01:11.351 --> 01:01:13.512
He's blackmailed into, you know,

01:01:13.532 --> 01:01:15.713
working for a secret government project

01:01:15.733 --> 01:01:17.092
that he finds out all about.

01:01:17.532 --> 01:01:18.753
And then in the midst of it,

01:01:18.773 --> 01:01:20.393
there's a prison break that he has to

01:01:20.454 --> 01:01:21.313
help, you know.

01:01:21.954 --> 01:01:23.554
That it has to help suppress.

01:01:23.574 --> 01:01:24.795
Okay.

01:01:24.815 --> 01:01:27.838
There's a lot that could happen in between

01:01:27.998 --> 01:01:29.559
all of those scenes and all of those

01:01:29.619 --> 01:01:30.139
panels.

01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:33.061
And I wrote a book,

01:01:33.961 --> 01:01:34.842
like a book book.

01:01:36.681 --> 01:01:38.300
And it's just about that novel.

01:01:38.742 --> 01:01:41.001
So imagine taking your favorite comic book

01:01:41.461 --> 01:01:45.123
and blowing up that story and giving

01:01:45.202 --> 01:01:47.204
characterization, giving pacing,

01:01:47.264 --> 01:01:48.324
giving motivation,

01:01:48.403 --> 01:01:52.644
giving the guards that walked by,

01:01:52.704 --> 01:01:53.724
what's his story?

01:01:54.865 --> 01:01:55.786
Is he afraid?

01:01:57.166 --> 01:01:58.467
Does he have a backstory?

01:01:58.507 --> 01:01:58.967
Does he have...

01:01:59.766 --> 01:02:02.768
there's a lot more world building that was

01:02:02.849 --> 01:02:04.949
possible so i i released my first novel

01:02:04.989 --> 01:02:07.110
last year i'm working on my second one

01:02:07.871 --> 01:02:10.673
um and i'm you know that's gonna be

01:02:11.393 --> 01:02:13.635
another way to increase the brand you know

01:02:13.775 --> 01:02:16.197
i i i took the ninety four timeline

01:02:16.297 --> 01:02:19.699
and i and i put a a you

01:02:19.719 --> 01:02:21.619
know present day timeline on top of it

01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:24.161
as a way of stretching my world and

01:02:24.242 --> 01:02:26.242
now i'm making it a little thicker by

01:02:26.603 --> 01:02:27.983
putting uh novels together

01:02:28.692 --> 01:02:29.893
So that's really cool.

01:02:30.213 --> 01:02:32.414
And it's just another element to what

01:02:32.434 --> 01:02:34.855
you're already doing with no real work

01:02:34.875 --> 01:02:36.356
because everything is already there in

01:02:36.376 --> 01:02:36.956
your head.

01:02:37.416 --> 01:02:38.777
So I already have the outline.

01:02:38.836 --> 01:02:40.137
Yeah, it's a printed comic.

01:02:40.197 --> 01:02:43.179
So it's like, yeah.

01:02:43.219 --> 01:02:48.121
So what's next for Lenovations Press and

01:02:48.201 --> 01:02:50.001
what has you the most decided?

01:02:52.246 --> 01:02:53.367
So I've already touched on it.

01:02:53.746 --> 01:02:56.166
The novels have me excited because I think

01:02:56.186 --> 01:02:58.867
that that's a future because it's a way

01:02:58.987 --> 01:03:04.188
of introducing people into the brand that

01:03:04.228 --> 01:03:05.610
wouldn't normally be there.

01:03:06.050 --> 01:03:07.170
So in the last show,

01:03:07.329 --> 01:03:08.670
I had a father that was looking for

01:03:08.690 --> 01:03:10.811
a science fiction book and I had a

01:03:10.951 --> 01:03:13.052
son who was younger who didn't want to

01:03:13.092 --> 01:03:14.472
read the science fiction book,

01:03:14.931 --> 01:03:16.512
but he was happy to read a twenty

01:03:16.552 --> 01:03:17.512
page comic book.

01:03:18.032 --> 01:03:20.454
So the comic book is the same story

01:03:20.554 --> 01:03:21.273
as the novel.

01:03:21.574 --> 01:03:23.114
So I sold the father of the novel

01:03:23.153 --> 01:03:25.295
and gave the comic book to the kid.

01:03:25.735 --> 01:03:27.554
And they were able to do that as

01:03:27.614 --> 01:03:29.215
a father and son activity together.

01:03:29.396 --> 01:03:30.416
And they really enjoyed it.

01:03:31.175 --> 01:03:33.416
And the father could tell the son all

01:03:33.476 --> 01:03:34.617
of the things that was happening in

01:03:34.637 --> 01:03:35.496
between the panels.

01:03:35.936 --> 01:03:38.777
So I think I really served the audience

01:03:38.818 --> 01:03:39.257
that way.

01:03:39.858 --> 01:03:40.757
That's a cool moment.

01:03:42.474 --> 01:03:43.757
I like to do stuff like that.

01:03:44.137 --> 01:03:49.324
The Mona and Sam podcast is like getting

01:03:49.384 --> 01:03:52.586
out of control in the best way possible

01:03:52.788 --> 01:03:56.813
because my last video was like, I'm like,

01:03:57.293 --> 01:03:58.494
What do I get Phil Miller for his

01:03:58.634 --> 01:03:59.114
birthday?

01:03:59.134 --> 01:04:00.233
He's one of my best friends.

01:04:00.253 --> 01:04:01.255
He's a great artist.

01:04:01.315 --> 01:04:02.614
He doesn't need anything.

01:04:02.855 --> 01:04:04.135
It's like, OK, I'll get him.

01:04:04.635 --> 01:04:06.036
I'll get him a pack of pens or

01:04:06.056 --> 01:04:06.396
something.

01:04:07.456 --> 01:04:08.137
And I'm like, no,

01:04:08.277 --> 01:04:10.097
I can just I'll just put all this

01:04:10.137 --> 01:04:13.219
stuff through Mona and Sam's algorithm and

01:04:13.478 --> 01:04:15.219
tell him it's his birthday and see what

01:04:15.260 --> 01:04:15.679
comes up.

01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:18.380
So we had a virtual birthday party for

01:04:18.420 --> 01:04:20.081
Phil Miller on Thursday.

01:04:20.362 --> 01:04:22.543
on the show and it was great he

01:04:22.583 --> 01:04:25.146
had he had a show and they talked

01:04:25.166 --> 01:04:27.547
about what they liked the best about all

01:04:27.568 --> 01:04:29.309
of the art that i uploaded there and

01:04:29.929 --> 01:04:32.891
their honest feedback about it and it was

01:04:32.931 --> 01:04:35.333
a lot of fun so you know we

01:04:35.373 --> 01:04:37.114
were able to take it in that take

01:04:37.155 --> 01:04:39.516
the show in that direction which was

01:04:39.556 --> 01:04:42.219
really cool and then we took um

01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:44.260
You know, like I said,

01:04:44.679 --> 01:04:46.300
we're making a comic book out of it

01:04:46.340 --> 01:04:46.800
right now.

01:04:47.701 --> 01:04:49.501
Our newest artist, Kevin Phillips,

01:04:49.541 --> 01:04:50.061
is drawing it.

01:04:50.141 --> 01:04:51.922
He's doing a fantastic job with it.

01:04:52.521 --> 01:04:55.623
And it's just a lot of fun.

01:04:55.722 --> 01:04:56.443
It's goofy.

01:04:57.204 --> 01:04:58.164
It's really goofy.

01:04:58.543 --> 01:05:01.085
But I think people are going to enjoy

01:05:01.125 --> 01:05:01.204
it.

01:05:02.969 --> 01:05:04.911
We also have a very aggressive,

01:05:05.190 --> 01:05:06.931
and this is another one of my podcast

01:05:06.951 --> 01:05:08.952
things where I had a lot of fun.

01:05:10.411 --> 01:05:12.373
I kicked Sam off the show and Mona

01:05:12.452 --> 01:05:13.413
and I did it.

01:05:13.512 --> 01:05:15.813
So I recorded my voice along with the

01:05:16.253 --> 01:05:19.155
AI host and we bantered back and forth

01:05:19.175 --> 01:05:20.735
with each other about our twenty twenty

01:05:20.775 --> 01:05:22.996
six schedule because I wanted to.

01:05:23.335 --> 01:05:24.255
I started again.

01:05:24.315 --> 01:05:25.215
I had that same moment.

01:05:25.396 --> 01:05:27.317
I started reading the twenty twenty six

01:05:27.396 --> 01:05:28.918
schedule into the microphone and I'm like,

01:05:29.197 --> 01:05:30.237
this is so boring.

01:05:30.677 --> 01:05:32.840
So then I loaded that recording into the

01:05:32.860 --> 01:05:34.661
microphone and she came up with witty

01:05:34.702 --> 01:05:37.043
banter as I was doing it.

01:05:37.083 --> 01:05:38.525
So I just had to cut the audio

01:05:38.545 --> 01:05:40.867
a little bit and it sounded like we

01:05:40.907 --> 01:05:41.949
were hosting a show together.

01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:44.440
That's really cool,

01:05:44.500 --> 01:05:46.561
and it's really amazing what you can

01:05:46.681 --> 01:05:49.483
actually do utilizing that tool.

01:05:49.503 --> 01:05:49.623
Yeah.

01:05:50.664 --> 01:05:52.545
But what do you think, Lynn?

01:05:52.786 --> 01:05:54.507
Got another five to ten years in you

01:05:54.547 --> 01:05:55.327
for the universe?

01:05:55.347 --> 01:05:56.568
Oh, absolutely.

01:05:58.208 --> 01:05:59.630
Yeah, we're going down swinging.

01:06:00.210 --> 01:06:02.192
We have a lot of things planned.

01:06:02.811 --> 01:06:05.074
We have some good storylines that are

01:06:05.094 --> 01:06:06.275
going to finish with –

01:06:06.835 --> 01:06:09.556
with section twelve and we have i i

01:06:09.597 --> 01:06:11.679
do have a rule no more number ones

01:06:12.079 --> 01:06:15.041
um we started tales of the unknown which

01:06:15.081 --> 01:06:18.644
is a horror anthology um this month and

01:06:18.704 --> 01:06:21.186
last year around this time we started

01:06:21.206 --> 01:06:23.248
uneven ground which is a historical

01:06:23.307 --> 01:06:26.911
fiction um which gives underserved moments

01:06:26.951 --> 01:06:28.512
in history a chance

01:06:29.172 --> 01:06:31.675
Right now I'm writing about the largest

01:06:31.775 --> 01:06:34.277
mail truck robbery in history.

01:06:35.559 --> 01:06:36.981
So I'm writing a story about that.

01:06:37.340 --> 01:06:40.224
I wrote about a USO show that with

01:06:40.244 --> 01:06:42.706
a downed helicopter in nineteen sixty

01:06:42.907 --> 01:06:43.226
eight.

01:06:43.907 --> 01:06:47.570
And then the first issue was a distant

01:06:47.630 --> 01:06:50.353
relative of mine who was a freedom fighter

01:06:50.434 --> 01:06:52.976
in Yugoslavia fighting against the Nazis.

01:06:54.514 --> 01:06:55.554
That's really cool, actually.

01:06:56.255 --> 01:06:57.974
So, Lynn,

01:06:58.135 --> 01:06:59.795
you ready for some rapid-fire questions?

01:07:00.155 --> 01:07:00.576
Sure.

01:07:01.516 --> 01:07:03.617
Physical or digital comics?

01:07:04.996 --> 01:07:05.456
Physical.

01:07:06.797 --> 01:07:08.237
Which surprises even me.

01:07:08.318 --> 01:07:09.797
I thought digital was really going to take

01:07:09.858 --> 01:07:10.659
off more than it does.

01:07:10.978 --> 01:07:11.898
Everybody likes digital.

01:07:12.318 --> 01:07:13.059
I do, too.

01:07:13.139 --> 01:07:14.340
People love digital, too,

01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:15.940
but I'm a physical guy, man.

01:07:15.980 --> 01:07:18.021
Something about holding it and the smells

01:07:18.121 --> 01:07:18.780
and, yeah.

01:07:20.021 --> 01:07:21.862
Favorite era of comics?

01:07:24.224 --> 01:07:27.925
seventies okay yeah i mean that's really

01:07:28.005 --> 01:07:30.505
where everything was really the modern day

01:07:30.545 --> 01:07:33.547
stuff was born in that time frame so

01:07:33.786 --> 01:07:40.829
indie or mainstream um it depends if you

01:07:40.869 --> 01:07:42.750
go back in time and you ask me

01:07:42.809 --> 01:07:44.809
i'm gonna say mainstream but now it's

01:07:44.909 --> 01:07:48.972
indie i'm an indie guy all the way

01:07:50.311 --> 01:07:53.213
so one comic every creator should read

01:07:56.722 --> 01:07:58.443
Yeah, this is a loaded question, but,

01:07:58.702 --> 01:07:59.023
you know,

01:07:59.304 --> 01:08:01.184
it's like I've been working a lot with

01:08:01.224 --> 01:08:02.425
Don Simpson.

01:08:03.525 --> 01:08:05.485
I did his multi mentions book.

01:08:06.527 --> 01:08:08.867
So so my characters got to cross over

01:08:08.907 --> 01:08:10.989
with Megaton Man, which was fantastic.

01:08:12.088 --> 01:08:14.050
I think everybody should read his Megaton

01:08:14.070 --> 01:08:17.231
Man stuff because it's it's great parody.

01:08:17.311 --> 01:08:18.311
It's great satire.

01:08:18.372 --> 01:08:20.872
It's just a lot of fun.

01:08:20.932 --> 01:08:23.574
And one mistake every indie creator should

01:08:23.614 --> 01:08:23.975
avoid.

01:08:25.268 --> 01:08:27.448
i think we've said it multiple times yeah

01:08:27.469 --> 01:08:29.288
i think we have to um you know

01:08:29.328 --> 01:08:33.930
don't give up um other other than that

01:08:34.490 --> 01:08:39.091
um don't be surprised when you fail like

01:08:39.353 --> 01:08:40.872
just because you have a kickstarter

01:08:40.912 --> 01:08:45.293
doesn't mean you're gonna get funded

01:08:45.994 --> 01:08:48.855
nailed it so lynn tell everybody now where

01:08:48.895 --> 01:08:49.876
they can find you

01:08:50.942 --> 01:08:53.904
Lenovationspress.com is where everything

01:08:54.006 --> 01:08:54.206
is.

01:08:54.246 --> 01:08:55.506
There's a link to,

01:08:56.207 --> 01:08:57.869
you can read two of my comic books

01:08:57.890 --> 01:08:58.229
for free.

01:08:58.250 --> 01:09:00.773
You can read section twelve flashback and

01:09:00.813 --> 01:09:02.435
section twelve declassified.

01:09:03.015 --> 01:09:04.117
Absolutely free.

01:09:04.377 --> 01:09:06.180
I'm not looking for your email address or

01:09:06.279 --> 01:09:06.699
anything.

01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:08.922
It's displayed right there on the screen.

01:09:09.203 --> 01:09:10.363
You don't have to click through.

01:09:10.423 --> 01:09:11.605
You don't have to fill out a form.

01:09:12.449 --> 01:09:15.171
Um, we have everything for sale on there.

01:09:15.212 --> 01:09:16.353
You don't have to try and track us

01:09:16.434 --> 01:09:17.274
down at a show.

01:09:17.675 --> 01:09:19.416
I'll combine shipping when I can.

01:09:20.317 --> 01:09:21.117
If, uh,

01:09:21.157 --> 01:09:23.418
the combo packages don't work for you,

01:09:23.458 --> 01:09:24.539
just send us an email.

01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:26.502
I'll make up a custom combo package for

01:09:26.521 --> 01:09:27.983
you, whatever you need.

01:09:28.722 --> 01:09:29.904
You can buy the novel there.

01:09:29.923 --> 01:09:31.225
You can buy any of our books.

01:09:31.585 --> 01:09:33.286
I'll throw some stickers in the envelope.

01:09:34.186 --> 01:09:35.547
We'd love it if you join us on

01:09:35.587 --> 01:09:36.207
Patreon.

01:09:36.547 --> 01:09:37.948
Even if you join us for free,

01:09:38.208 --> 01:09:39.489
you'll get to see some of those art

01:09:39.510 --> 01:09:41.070
texts between me and Phil Miller.

01:09:41.752 --> 01:09:42.893
That's always a lot of fun.

01:09:43.212 --> 01:09:43.912
And, of course,

01:09:44.073 --> 01:09:45.613
if you want to see Mona and Sam

01:09:45.654 --> 01:09:47.255
in action, I've talked about them so much,

01:09:47.295 --> 01:09:49.796
you can go to our YouTube channel and

01:09:50.056 --> 01:09:50.877
check that out too.

01:09:51.877 --> 01:09:54.460
I did see them, and I was –

01:09:55.065 --> 01:09:55.386
At first,

01:09:55.466 --> 01:09:56.846
I didn't realize what I was watching.

01:09:57.887 --> 01:10:00.789
After a moment, I was like, oh, gotcha.

01:10:00.810 --> 01:10:02.270
I'm like, I see you.

01:10:02.770 --> 01:10:05.393
It's a really cool concept that I know

01:10:05.412 --> 01:10:06.774
a lot of people are making use of

01:10:06.793 --> 01:10:07.715
that kind of stuff,

01:10:08.055 --> 01:10:09.615
but it's just kind of cool to see

01:10:10.476 --> 01:10:10.596
it.

01:10:10.636 --> 01:10:12.597
You're not using it in a nefarious way

01:10:12.717 --> 01:10:13.238
at all.

01:10:13.719 --> 01:10:14.458
It's just one of those,

01:10:14.779 --> 01:10:16.881
you're doing something fun for your own

01:10:16.921 --> 01:10:19.722
brand, which is really cool to do.

01:10:19.823 --> 01:10:22.404
It promotes it better than I can.

01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:25.247
And all these links will be in the

01:10:25.287 --> 01:10:27.979
description of this podcast when it goes

01:10:28.060 --> 01:10:28.462
live.

01:10:29.858 --> 01:10:30.518
maybe Sunday.

01:10:30.537 --> 01:10:33.900
I'm not for sure yet, but, but Lynn,

01:10:33.940 --> 01:10:35.801
this has been an incredible conversation.

01:10:35.962 --> 01:10:37.922
Hopefully everybody who listens,

01:10:38.143 --> 01:10:39.323
learn something from this one.

01:10:39.363 --> 01:10:40.585
Cause this was a really good one.

01:10:41.365 --> 01:10:43.287
And, you know, it's just not,

01:10:43.386 --> 01:10:44.467
it wasn't just about comics.

01:10:44.507 --> 01:10:46.889
We had, this has been about persistence,

01:10:46.948 --> 01:10:48.470
evolution and building something that

01:10:48.510 --> 01:10:49.911
stands the test of time.

01:10:50.331 --> 01:10:53.252
And we'll continue to stand the test of

01:10:53.292 --> 01:10:53.514
time.

01:10:53.573 --> 01:10:54.694
Cause you heard it first.

01:10:54.814 --> 01:10:56.215
Lynn's got another good ten,

01:10:56.255 --> 01:10:57.136
twenty years in it.

01:10:57.155 --> 01:10:58.056
Yeah.

01:10:59.234 --> 01:11:00.494
So for everyone watching,

01:11:00.914 --> 01:11:02.655
make sure you check out Lenovation Press,

01:11:02.695 --> 01:11:05.435
support indie creators and dive into these

01:11:05.555 --> 01:11:06.176
stories.

01:11:06.996 --> 01:11:08.676
They are amazing.

01:11:08.756 --> 01:11:11.377
Section twelve to number ones are both

01:11:11.436 --> 01:11:11.817
free.

01:11:11.957 --> 01:11:13.917
And those were my favorite reads that I

01:11:13.938 --> 01:11:16.337
got to do from his collection.

01:11:16.398 --> 01:11:18.958
So but if you enjoyed this conversation,

01:11:19.019 --> 01:11:19.719
make sure you like,

01:11:19.838 --> 01:11:21.759
subscribe and share this episode with

01:11:21.798 --> 01:11:24.859
somebody who loves indie comics.

01:11:25.680 --> 01:11:26.261
And remember,

01:11:26.820 --> 01:11:29.122
Indie Comets aren't just the future.

01:11:29.342 --> 01:11:32.064
They're happening right now.

01:11:32.546 --> 01:11:35.328
The Council of Nerds is now adjourned.

01:11:36.007 --> 01:11:38.390
This has been the USDN Podcast,

01:11:38.789 --> 01:11:41.252
where Indie Comets come to life.

01:11:41.893 --> 01:11:42.974
Y'all be safe out there.