WEBVTT

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And that's what climate change is about.

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It is literally not

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figuratively a clear and present danger.

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We are in the beginning of a

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mass extinction.

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The ability of CO2 to do the

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heavy work of creating a

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climate catastrophe is

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almost nil at this point.

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The price of oil has been

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artificially elevated to

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the point of insanity.

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That's not how you power a

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modern industrial system.

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The ultimate goal of this

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renewable energy plan is to

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reach the exact same point

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that we're at now.

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You know who's tried that?

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Germany.

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Seven straight days of no

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wind for Germany.

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Their factories are shutting down.

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They really do act like

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weather didn't happen prior to, like,

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1910.

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Today is Friday.

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That's right, Greta.

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It is Friday.

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And this is our own personal

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Friday protest.

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Climate Change Roundtable, Episode 96,

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Climate Trial of the Century,

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Man vs. Stein, Round 3.

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I'm Jim Lakely,

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Vice President of the

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Heartland Institute.

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And our usual host, Anthony Watts,

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is under the weather today

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instead of forecasting it.

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So feel better soon, Anthony,

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and we'll see you next week.

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With us as always are Dr. H.

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Sterling Burnett.

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He is the director of the

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Arthur B. Robinson Center

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at the Heartland Institute.

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And also Linnea Lucan,

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a research fellow with the

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Robinson Center.

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Well, you know,

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and we also have a special guest.

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I'll get to her in just a moment.

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But we've just ended week three.

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of the defamation trial

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where serial litigator and

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all around nasty piece of business,

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a climate hockey stick

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inventor named Michael E. Mann,

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he's suing Mark Stein and

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Ran Simberg for a couple of

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blog posts that supposedly

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so greatly injured his

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reputation that it damaged

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his ability to get

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government grants to fund

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more climate alarmism and

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made him a pariah in public

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and professional circles.

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Well,

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anyone following this trial that has

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operating ears and an open mind

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would find that that claim

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is utterly ridiculous.

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And that surely includes our

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special guest this week.

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That is one Anne McElhenney.

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She and her husband, fellow McAleer,

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who we had on the show last week,

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run the Unreported Stories

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Society and have been in

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the courtroom every day.

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And they provide

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comprehensive coverage on

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this important trial via their podcast,

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Climate Change on Trial.

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Welcome, everybody.

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This is going to be a

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fantastic show and special welcome to you,

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Anne.

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Thank you so much.

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It's great to be here.

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Thank you for having me.

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You are quite welcome.

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It's our honor to have you here.

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And I know we only have you

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for a limited time.

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So we're going to try to get

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to some of the new

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developments in the trial this week.

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Michael Mann rested his case.

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And I think, you know,

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anybody listening to trial,

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as I alluded to in the introduction,

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would find actually that

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Mann's witnesses were not

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really all that impressive.

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In fact, the defense...

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And again,

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you get a lot of this from

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listening to the Climate

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Change on Trial podcast.

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A lot of the witnesses for the plaintiffs,

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the defense questioning of

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those witnesses seem to do

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a lot more good for the

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defense than they ever did

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for the prosecution,

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or I should say for the plaintiffs.

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But one of my favorite

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things about the trial, Anne,

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favorite maybe isn't the right word,

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but I think it's actually something,

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it is my favorite then,

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because it actually is

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exposing what kind of a

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person Michael Mann really is.

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Those of us in the climate skeptic,

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climate realist community,

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whom he calls climate deniers,

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which is of course to make

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an analogy to Holocaust denial,

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which is evil and filthy thing to do.

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But over and over,

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he has to keep read into

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the public record are

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emails that he had written to colleagues.

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Now, mind you, this is a professional.

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This is a PhD.

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This is a professor at Penn

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State University.

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And now he's in the Ivy

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League at the University of Pennsylvania.

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And the language that he uses,

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the insults that he so

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freely and so frequently

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throws out there,

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among his colleagues,

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among people that just

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happen to disagree with him

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and think maybe he may have

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made a few mistakes in his

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hockey stick is really shocking.

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And I think it's awesome, actually,

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that this is on the

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permanent public record about, as I said,

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what a nasty piece of

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business Michael Mann is.

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Yeah, I mean, I was very,

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very shocked by that.

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You know, he calls people human filth.

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He called McIntyre human filth,

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a guy who had published, by the way,

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McIntyre and McKittrick had

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published their criticism

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of the hockey stick in the

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same peer reviewed journal

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where Michael Mann's

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hockey stick had appeared first.

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And those guys, you know,

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got the ire of Michael Mann and he called,

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you know, human filth, by the way,

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to call somebody that.

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He also called him an a-hole

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and I'm abbreviating that.

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But I think even almost

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worse was Judith Curry.

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Judith Curry,

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as I think you guys would

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probably know her very well,

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world-renowned climate scientist,

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uh you know very pure you

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know science person by the

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way big time

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environmentalist she

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explained yet when she was

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in court yesterday I think

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she has 26 solar panels at

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her house and all of that

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but he insinuated in emails

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to other academics

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including people at nasa

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that she had slept her way

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to the top which is the

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oldest slur against a woman

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uh being successful in the world

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that is known to man, basically.

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And this is what he did.

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And when he had an

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opportunity in the court

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under pain of perjury,

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he admitted on the

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testimony that every part

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of the email where he

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insinuated that she was a

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student when she went to Penn State,

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that she had an affair with a married man,

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that every part of that was untrue.

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And when he had an opportunity,

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when Judith Curry was in the courtroom,

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when Dr. Webster was also

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in the courtroom, her husband,

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He didn't apologize and

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hasn't done anything to apologize since.

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I mean, this for me,

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I found it really shocking.

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I mean, we've all been to university,

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I presume.

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And my memory of third level

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education was that I was

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taught by people who were, you know,

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crusty academics, a little eccentric,

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but awfully correct.

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Very, you know, very impressive.

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And this if this is the

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caliber of person who's

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teaching at Penn State,

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it's kind of an interesting

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insight that you speak like

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that about people who disagree with you.

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you know these people didn't

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kill your dog you know this

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these people didn't you

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know shoot your wife you

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know and yet he uses

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language incredibly in

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temperate language to

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describe these people and

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as you know and I think

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you've talked about it

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before tim ball you know in

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canada we basically

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litigated him to death

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Extraordinary.

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And when the case went

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against Michael Mann, he never paid.

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And Tim Ball died in penury.

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He's an extraordinary man.

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Obviously incredibly

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insecure because he needs

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to do this kind of the way

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he speaks about people.

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I'm shocked by it, by the way.

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Every day I'm completely blown over by it.

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his insecurity was was on

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full display when he talked

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about someone glaring he

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was convinced someone

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glared at him in a grocery

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store and oh can I just oh

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my whole life yeah I can't

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shop there anymore you are

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so right I mean I i we made

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the joke by the way he

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should have a look at our

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my inbox sometime and the

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things that have been

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written to me I hope you

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die I hope you're I've

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gotten a couple of my

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choice ones was I hope your

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children are disabled

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I hope you are hung from a

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short rope like the Nazis.

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Like I got all of that just

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in a day's work, by the way.

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He said,

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and this is by way of him as the

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plaintiff proving damages,

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said that in a Wegmans, by the way,

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let's be specific,

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in a Wegmans in State College,

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someone looked at him,

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the meanest look he'd ever seen.

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Woo!

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And by the way, my question to that is,

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how do you know, Michael Mann,

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that that man didn't just

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find his wife in bed with someone else?

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How do you know that that

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man didn't just stand in a piece of poo?

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How do you know that that

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man didn't just realize

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that the winning lottery

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ticket for that week was

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his numbers and his wife

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had washed down the sink?

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How do you know that

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Whatever, right?

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How do you know he didn't look at man?

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He never said his name.

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He never said anything.

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Well, yeah, I mean,

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and the irony with all of

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this and Michael Mann being

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a nasty piece of business

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is that if there's anybody

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who's a serial defamer of

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others in this community,

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it is Michael Mann.

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It is not Rand Simberg and

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it is not Mark Stein.

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So as I mentioned,

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Mann did rest his case this week.

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And we're going to get to

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something that many thought

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might happen after he rested his case,

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but apparently did not happen.

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And you were in the

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courtroom to see it and

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people listening and

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watching online were not able to see it.

0:08:45.541 --> 0:08:46.760
So it's very important that

0:08:46.780 --> 0:08:47.480
we get to that.

0:08:48.061 --> 0:08:48.601
But, Anne, first,

0:08:48.642 --> 0:08:49.383
I wanted to get to two

0:08:49.482 --> 0:08:51.205
clips from near the end of

0:08:51.264 --> 0:08:54.427
Mann's case from your

0:08:54.467 --> 0:08:55.369
excellent Climate Change on

0:08:55.408 --> 0:08:56.551
Trial podcast and play them

0:08:56.870 --> 0:08:57.511
for our audience.

0:08:58.192 --> 0:08:59.413
The first is a clip from

0:08:59.453 --> 0:09:00.735
your self-admitted girl crush,

0:09:01.556 --> 0:09:03.979
Victoria Weatherford, who is the attorney,

0:09:04.019 --> 0:09:05.360
one of the attorneys for Rand Simberg.

0:09:06.961 --> 0:09:08.003
She was going hard after

0:09:08.043 --> 0:09:09.484
Michael Mann's claim of damages,

0:09:09.563 --> 0:09:11.785
which is his burden to prove, by the way.

0:09:11.905 --> 0:09:12.986
He has to prove that he has

0:09:13.027 --> 0:09:13.706
suffered damages.

0:09:14.307 --> 0:09:15.129
And specifically,

0:09:15.308 --> 0:09:16.129
she was going after the

0:09:16.188 --> 0:09:17.269
idea that he had lost out

0:09:17.510 --> 0:09:19.072
on millions of dollars of

0:09:19.131 --> 0:09:20.092
government grants that he

0:09:20.133 --> 0:09:21.754
normally applies for and

0:09:21.813 --> 0:09:22.715
normally receives.

0:09:23.235 --> 0:09:23.375
Now,

0:09:23.434 --> 0:09:24.556
when he first submitted a sworn

0:09:24.576 --> 0:09:28.259
document about those losses in 2020,

0:09:28.259 --> 0:09:29.200
the amount was in the many,

0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:30.100
many millions of dollars

0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:31.022
that he claimed to have lost.

0:09:31.501 --> 0:09:32.022
And then when he had to

0:09:32.062 --> 0:09:33.062
submit them again under

0:09:33.102 --> 0:09:35.864
pain of perjury in 2023,

0:09:35.864 --> 0:09:37.725
those numbers dropped dramatically.

0:09:38.086 --> 0:09:39.166
And in fact, in one case,

0:09:39.866 --> 0:09:41.126
he swore in 2020 that he

0:09:41.167 --> 0:09:42.947
lost a $9 million grant, I believe.

0:09:42.988 --> 0:09:43.969
You can correct me if I'm wrong.

0:09:44.688 --> 0:09:46.830
And then he later amended that in 2023,

0:09:46.830 --> 0:09:48.932
did Michael Mann, to say, oh,

0:09:49.032 --> 0:09:51.572
that grant was actually only $112,000.

0:09:51.572 --> 0:09:51.773
Now,

0:09:52.333 --> 0:09:54.736
we're not playing that clip where you

0:09:54.756 --> 0:09:55.758
could hear Victoria

0:09:55.778 --> 0:09:56.918
Weatherford's eyes roll

0:09:57.078 --> 0:09:58.019
when she mentioned that

0:09:58.039 --> 0:09:58.980
there's quite a difference there,

0:09:59.020 --> 0:09:59.841
isn't there, Dr. Mann,

0:09:59.861 --> 0:10:01.283
between $9 million and $112 million.

0:10:02.345 --> 0:10:02.705
But, Annie,

0:10:02.725 --> 0:10:03.927
let's go ahead and play this other clip,

0:10:04.307 --> 0:10:06.408
which you and Phelan had

0:10:06.489 --> 0:10:07.389
identified as one of your

0:10:07.450 --> 0:10:08.490
favorite bits as she was

0:10:08.572 --> 0:10:09.552
wrapping up this point she

0:10:09.592 --> 0:10:11.575
was making in going after Michael Mann.

0:10:12.668 --> 0:10:12.849
Now,

0:10:12.948 --> 0:10:14.509
her conclusion to this long and very

0:10:14.528 --> 0:10:15.230
effective line of

0:10:15.250 --> 0:10:16.309
questioning is a total delight.

0:10:16.590 --> 0:10:17.990
Just again, to remember, we obviously,

0:10:18.289 --> 0:10:19.649
you know, I mean, the show could be,

0:10:19.710 --> 0:10:20.990
you know, 12 hours long or whatever.

0:10:21.051 --> 0:10:22.150
It could go on forever.

0:10:22.490 --> 0:10:23.691
So we have had to cut this

0:10:23.730 --> 0:10:24.250
down a little bit.

0:10:24.551 --> 0:10:25.591
But I honestly think

0:10:26.072 --> 0:10:27.152
Weatherford's conclusion,

0:10:27.292 --> 0:10:28.432
so she went back and forth

0:10:28.471 --> 0:10:29.272
and back and forth through

0:10:29.471 --> 0:10:31.633
all of these different errors.

0:10:31.692 --> 0:10:32.393
And we're going to hear kind

0:10:32.432 --> 0:10:33.732
of a summing up of that now.

0:10:34.133 --> 0:10:35.033
And I do think that this is

0:10:35.192 --> 0:10:36.092
extremely delightful.

0:10:37.533 --> 0:10:38.754
So let me get this straight.

0:10:39.635 --> 0:10:42.216
For your funded grants between June 2020,

0:10:42.216 --> 0:10:44.116
March 2023,

0:10:44.116 --> 0:10:46.336
you have to make corrections to 7,

0:10:46.336 --> 0:10:47.337
by my calculation,

0:10:47.457 --> 0:10:49.238
out of the 13 grants on here.

0:10:49.918 --> 0:10:50.518
Isn't that right?

0:10:51.258 --> 0:10:51.618
Yes.

0:10:52.458 --> 0:10:54.918
Less than 50% score, Dr. Mann.

0:10:56.298 --> 0:10:57.299
Are you saying that it's

0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.019
okay to give us a failing

0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:00.159
grade in your sworn

0:11:00.220 --> 0:11:01.900
responses under penalty of

0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:03.980
perjury about your grants?

0:11:06.313 --> 0:11:07.614
That prompted Mance going to

0:11:07.653 --> 0:11:08.934
one of his rather lengthy

0:11:08.975 --> 0:11:10.514
responses and he talked

0:11:10.534 --> 0:11:11.434
about how his grants could

0:11:11.455 --> 0:11:12.436
be funded at different

0:11:12.535 --> 0:11:14.615
levels and what he applied for, et cetera,

0:11:14.655 --> 0:11:15.035
et cetera.

0:11:15.056 --> 0:11:16.636
But Weatherford then came in

0:11:16.677 --> 0:11:17.697
and responded to his

0:11:17.817 --> 0:11:20.498
flailing effort at explaining himself.

0:11:20.597 --> 0:11:22.097
And this is just delightful.

0:11:22.197 --> 0:11:22.857
Let's listen to this.

0:11:23.958 --> 0:11:25.038
And let me get this straight.

0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.279
You are asking the jury to

0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:28.279
believe that your

0:11:28.419 --> 0:11:30.061
complicated statistics in

0:11:30.100 --> 0:11:31.681
this case are unimpeachable

0:11:32.100 --> 0:11:33.181
and they should trust you

0:11:33.301 --> 0:11:34.621
on the data for your graph

0:11:34.642 --> 0:11:36.282
when you can't get a dozen

0:11:36.381 --> 0:11:37.501
grant amounts right.

0:11:38.182 --> 0:11:39.001
Is that what I'm supposed to

0:11:39.042 --> 0:11:40.361
believe and what the jury

0:11:40.423 --> 0:11:41.263
is supposed to believe?

0:11:43.842 --> 0:11:44.023
Yeah.

0:11:44.842 --> 0:11:45.702
So that was that was her

0:11:45.743 --> 0:11:47.583
wrapping up going after a

0:11:47.744 --> 0:11:49.744
man's claims of damages in

0:11:49.783 --> 0:11:51.144
a pretty devastating way.

0:11:51.203 --> 0:11:51.943
And, you know,

0:11:52.063 --> 0:11:53.404
using the failing grade for

0:11:53.424 --> 0:11:54.965
a professor is a pretty good dig.

0:11:55.748 --> 0:11:57.349
Yeah, and this is 12 years, you know,

0:11:57.369 --> 0:11:58.769
this is 12 years of litigation.

0:11:59.850 --> 0:12:01.370
And when you were asked

0:12:01.451 --> 0:12:03.011
these interrogatories, as they call them,

0:12:03.491 --> 0:12:05.253
under pain of perjury, as you picked,

0:12:05.312 --> 0:12:06.933
as you're pointing out there, Jim, I mean,

0:12:07.453 --> 0:12:09.495
this is very, very serious stuff.

0:12:09.855 --> 0:12:11.436
And this error is ridiculous.

0:12:11.476 --> 0:12:13.618
I mean, you know, as Phelan was joking,

0:12:13.658 --> 0:12:13.778
like,

0:12:13.957 --> 0:12:15.798
who among us haven't mistaken 9

0:12:15.798 --> 0:12:16.259
million for 112,000?

0:12:16.259 --> 0:12:16.778
You know, and it...

0:12:20.822 --> 0:12:21.743
I don't know what it shows,

0:12:21.802 --> 0:12:23.924
but it definitely shows a sloppiness.

0:12:23.965 --> 0:12:26.447
At the very least, it shows sloppiness.

0:12:26.486 --> 0:12:28.489
At the worst, it shows something much,

0:12:28.589 --> 0:12:29.509
much, much worse.

0:12:30.711 --> 0:12:32.932
You're kind of alluding to

0:12:32.972 --> 0:12:33.514
the fact that they're

0:12:33.533 --> 0:12:34.494
trying to get a summary

0:12:34.514 --> 0:12:35.394
judgment at this point and

0:12:35.414 --> 0:12:37.537
get this whole case thrown out.

0:12:38.118 --> 0:12:39.538
I think on the basis of he

0:12:39.578 --> 0:12:41.160
has been unable to show

0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:42.682
that he was damaged and

0:12:42.721 --> 0:12:43.381
particularly with this

0:12:43.422 --> 0:12:44.823
grant making thing and I

0:12:44.864 --> 0:12:45.783
thought they made a lot of

0:12:45.864 --> 0:12:47.105
very good points the grant

0:12:47.186 --> 0:12:47.806
making and it's just

0:12:47.865 --> 0:12:48.547
important maybe for

0:12:48.586 --> 0:12:49.407
everyone to understand that

0:12:49.827 --> 0:12:51.089
the grant making that he

0:12:51.229 --> 0:12:52.769
lost out on let's say and

0:12:52.929 --> 0:12:53.750
you know the big number in

0:12:53.791 --> 0:12:54.871
the end was like it went

0:12:54.932 --> 0:12:57.153
from four four years prior

0:12:57.313 --> 0:12:59.975
was 3.3 four years after

0:13:00.015 --> 0:13:01.096
these alleged defamatory

0:13:01.177 --> 0:13:03.458
articles it was 500 000 but

0:13:03.899 --> 0:13:05.179
what really is important is

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:06.201
that these grants did not

0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:07.542
go to michael mann

0:13:08.177 --> 0:13:09.477
They went to Penn State.

0:13:09.937 --> 0:13:11.820
And Penn State, we all remember,

0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:13.360
was having a little bit of

0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.162
a reputational issue at the time.

0:13:15.623 --> 0:13:17.764
Their president ended up in prison.

0:13:18.504 --> 0:13:20.086
So the idea that somehow

0:13:20.485 --> 0:13:22.447
these grants were reduced.

0:13:23.128 --> 0:13:24.188
There's some other reasons

0:13:24.249 --> 0:13:25.950
why the grants might have been reduced.

0:13:26.230 --> 0:13:29.232
And the effort to try to

0:13:29.293 --> 0:13:31.434
connect the grant laws with

0:13:31.475 --> 0:13:33.475
these articles was not made.

0:13:33.515 --> 0:13:35.717
That argument was not made.

0:13:36.485 --> 0:13:38.346
and while that's not made

0:13:38.365 --> 0:13:39.706
that's literally the only

0:13:39.746 --> 0:13:40.746
thing they've got and they

0:13:40.807 --> 0:13:42.347
didn't make it I mean who

0:13:42.408 --> 0:13:43.368
is to know that it wasn't

0:13:43.388 --> 0:13:44.788
the fact that the president

0:13:44.808 --> 0:13:46.149
of the college was under

0:13:46.188 --> 0:13:47.470
investigation for one of

0:13:47.529 --> 0:13:48.470
the worst things you could

0:13:48.529 --> 0:13:49.910
possibly do which is to

0:13:49.971 --> 0:13:52.032
hide the rape of children

0:13:53.272 --> 0:13:53.951
So, you know,

0:13:53.991 --> 0:13:55.312
if you're somebody from one of these,

0:13:55.452 --> 0:13:56.033
you know, large,

0:13:56.072 --> 0:13:57.513
maybe prestigious

0:13:57.572 --> 0:13:59.813
grant-making organizations, and, you know,

0:13:59.833 --> 0:14:01.394
you've got 100 people

0:14:01.413 --> 0:14:03.854
who've applied for grants, guys in Oxford,

0:14:03.933 --> 0:14:05.294
in Cambridge, you know, whatever,

0:14:05.335 --> 0:14:07.375
in Australia, people all over the world,

0:14:07.934 --> 0:14:09.215
you know, you might say to yourself,

0:14:09.875 --> 0:14:10.115
you know,

0:14:10.375 --> 0:14:11.176
I think we're going to wait a

0:14:11.196 --> 0:14:12.115
wee bit with this Penn

0:14:12.155 --> 0:14:14.235
State and see how things, you know,

0:14:14.275 --> 0:14:15.537
shake out because I'm not

0:14:15.596 --> 0:14:17.336
comfortable with us using

0:14:17.376 --> 0:14:19.777
this grant money to support

0:14:19.817 --> 0:14:20.937
these guys because this

0:14:20.998 --> 0:14:21.798
college is rotten.

0:14:22.557 --> 0:14:23.359
And, you know,

0:14:23.399 --> 0:14:24.821
we know that the college is rotten.

0:14:25.121 --> 0:14:25.322
I mean,

0:14:25.361 --> 0:14:27.024
when the president went to prison

0:14:27.705 --> 0:14:28.645
and another one of the

0:14:28.666 --> 0:14:29.886
executives went to prison.

0:14:29.927 --> 0:14:30.087
I mean,

0:14:30.128 --> 0:14:31.789
this is it's the first time in history,

0:14:31.830 --> 0:14:32.149
by the way,

0:14:32.530 --> 0:14:33.731
that a college president went

0:14:33.912 --> 0:14:34.793
to went to prison.

0:14:35.453 --> 0:14:37.056
So this is not a small thing.

0:14:37.076 --> 0:14:39.919
Yeah, you got to.

0:14:43.095 --> 0:14:44.476
man in my experience I've

0:14:44.517 --> 0:14:45.638
actually met him been on

0:14:45.658 --> 0:14:47.380
the same conference as him

0:14:48.562 --> 0:14:49.263
published in the same

0:14:49.302 --> 0:14:52.746
journal he has no small amount of hubris

0:14:53.860 --> 0:14:56.062
And you've got to think

0:14:56.422 --> 0:14:59.245
another factor in him not

0:14:59.304 --> 0:15:00.765
getting his grants.

0:15:01.427 --> 0:15:01.626
I mean,

0:15:01.647 --> 0:15:03.048
he's he's assuming that they just

0:15:03.089 --> 0:15:03.889
come to him every year.

0:15:03.908 --> 0:15:04.610
They're going to just come

0:15:04.629 --> 0:15:06.010
to him and his group,

0:15:06.051 --> 0:15:07.111
whoever he's applying with.

0:15:07.513 --> 0:15:08.232
But the truth is,

0:15:08.813 --> 0:15:09.975
just like there are lots of

0:15:10.034 --> 0:15:12.216
people you said from Oxford and wherever,

0:15:13.118 --> 0:15:13.317
you know,

0:15:14.379 --> 0:15:17.082
pushing for grants, they all have good,

0:15:17.403 --> 0:15:18.946
interesting research,

0:15:19.586 --> 0:15:21.028
and he doesn't have a right

0:15:21.067 --> 0:15:22.409
to a set amount of that pool money.

0:15:22.809 --> 0:15:24.192
Others may need more

0:15:24.211 --> 0:15:25.933
deserving that year and in

0:15:25.953 --> 0:15:26.754
the following years.

0:15:28.878 --> 0:15:28.977
And

0:15:31.043 --> 0:15:32.063
I think the Grant thing,

0:15:32.364 --> 0:15:33.125
I'd be interested to see

0:15:33.164 --> 0:15:35.246
how the judge responded to the fact that,

0:15:35.326 --> 0:15:36.849
what your impression of

0:15:37.229 --> 0:15:38.750
what the judge responding

0:15:38.791 --> 0:15:40.272
to the fact that they had

0:15:40.351 --> 0:15:42.193
filed these false or

0:15:42.214 --> 0:15:44.375
misleading statements about the money.

0:15:44.395 --> 0:15:47.479
I think they all should call

0:15:47.519 --> 0:15:49.461
him out on the fact that he claims

0:15:50.461 --> 0:15:51.981
he claimed early that he doesn't,

0:15:52.701 --> 0:15:54.823
he doesn't, uh, tweet much.

0:15:55.903 --> 0:15:56.284
Something like,

0:15:56.365 --> 0:15:58.426
something like one of the attorneys said,

0:15:58.485 --> 0:16:00.506
look, you know, aren't you constantly?

0:16:00.527 --> 0:16:01.368
No, I don't tweet much.

0:16:01.888 --> 0:16:02.388
Well, he'd,

0:16:02.528 --> 0:16:04.269
he'd done over a hundred thousand tweets.

0:16:04.330 --> 0:16:05.931
It turned out to be something like,

0:16:06.431 --> 0:16:09.993
you know, X dozens per day, every day.

0:16:10.013 --> 0:16:10.052
Um,

0:16:12.383 --> 0:16:13.644
Look, I don't tweet much.

0:16:14.125 --> 0:16:14.565
Zero.

0:16:15.885 --> 0:16:16.687
There's a lot of people that

0:16:16.726 --> 0:16:17.427
don't tweet much.

0:16:18.028 --> 0:16:18.749
Man tweets.

0:16:18.828 --> 0:16:18.969
I mean,

0:16:18.989 --> 0:16:22.351
he rivals Donald Trump during his peak.

0:16:24.417 --> 0:16:29.160
Yeah, he really loves to tweet.

0:16:29.181 --> 0:16:31.864
And in fact, actually, of course,

0:16:31.884 --> 0:16:33.065
I think the first day of the trial,

0:16:33.105 --> 0:16:34.105
he blocked me on Twitter.

0:16:34.586 --> 0:16:35.846
And he's blocked an awful lot of people.

0:16:35.866 --> 0:16:37.168
But obviously, we have ways around that.

0:16:37.188 --> 0:16:38.629
And we've got other people who he hasn't.

0:16:38.889 --> 0:16:39.610
He's not aware of.

0:16:39.890 --> 0:16:40.971
So we're able to see his tweets.

0:16:41.011 --> 0:16:41.331
And actually,

0:16:41.351 --> 0:16:42.774
he's been going nuts on

0:16:42.813 --> 0:16:43.975
Twitter over the last few days.

0:16:44.455 --> 0:16:45.296
because he doesn't like

0:16:45.336 --> 0:16:46.096
what's going on in the

0:16:46.136 --> 0:16:47.378
court and what's coming to light.

0:16:47.898 --> 0:16:48.938
One of the things that kind

0:16:48.979 --> 0:16:50.821
of I think you just kind of

0:16:50.860 --> 0:16:52.142
alluded to there when you

0:16:52.162 --> 0:16:54.043
were talking was the fact

0:16:54.063 --> 0:16:54.745
that he actually

0:16:55.024 --> 0:16:58.107
misrepresented to the jury

0:16:58.609 --> 0:17:00.070
visually with a demonstrative.

0:17:00.429 --> 0:17:02.072
He showed a spreadsheet

0:17:03.253 --> 0:17:05.134
of grants that he had missed out on.

0:17:05.374 --> 0:17:06.974
And the 9 million, that error,

0:17:07.496 --> 0:17:09.196
which had been pointed out prior,

0:17:09.656 --> 0:17:11.358
he showed that to the jury.

0:17:11.638 --> 0:17:12.380
They showed that.

0:17:12.700 --> 0:17:14.601
The plaintiffs showed that to the jury in,

0:17:15.402 --> 0:17:15.642
you know,

0:17:15.741 --> 0:17:18.124
and the judge went fairly nuts over that,

0:17:18.304 --> 0:17:18.983
to be honest with you.

0:17:19.003 --> 0:17:21.746
Was very, very, very angry about that.

0:17:22.567 --> 0:17:24.628
To knowingly show something

0:17:24.648 --> 0:17:26.609
to the jury that is completely an error.

0:17:27.171 --> 0:17:28.971
But as you have mentioned earlier, Jim,

0:17:29.112 --> 0:17:29.372
you know,

0:17:29.451 --> 0:17:31.513
so the plaintiff's case has rested.

0:17:32.134 --> 0:17:33.555
And then we get to hear the defense.

0:17:33.634 --> 0:17:35.576
And we're running out of time, by the way,

0:17:35.636 --> 0:17:35.757
here.

0:17:35.777 --> 0:17:36.477
It's unbelievable.

0:17:36.998 --> 0:17:38.419
The judge said yesterday,

0:17:38.778 --> 0:17:39.680
no matter what happens,

0:17:40.180 --> 0:17:41.441
we're finishing on Wednesday.

0:17:41.500 --> 0:17:43.742
So that leaves us now with three more days,

0:17:43.823 --> 0:17:43.982
right?

0:17:44.002 --> 0:17:45.324
Because we don't have court on Friday.

0:17:45.743 --> 0:17:46.724
So we've got three more days.

0:17:46.765 --> 0:17:49.467
We've got a jury that are always...

0:17:50.452 --> 0:17:51.554
Always late.

0:17:51.913 --> 0:17:54.035
So we never, ever start on time.

0:17:54.214 --> 0:17:55.516
OK, it's a little bugbear of mine.

0:17:55.615 --> 0:17:58.538
I'm terminally punctual.

0:17:58.597 --> 0:17:59.739
It's just a thing with me.

0:18:00.038 --> 0:18:01.519
I think it's very disrespectful.

0:18:01.539 --> 0:18:03.461
I just think it's incredibly

0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:04.340
disrespectful to have

0:18:04.381 --> 0:18:05.182
somebody waiting on you.

0:18:06.362 --> 0:18:07.123
It doesn't matter who it is.

0:18:07.442 --> 0:18:09.023
And I'm not saying everyone in the jury,

0:18:09.104 --> 0:18:10.045
but I am saying that there

0:18:10.065 --> 0:18:12.807
is a court in that jury who

0:18:12.847 --> 0:18:13.387
are late every day.

0:18:13.407 --> 0:18:14.769
And I'm not talking about five minutes.

0:18:14.848 --> 0:18:16.570
I am not talking about five minutes.

0:18:16.951 --> 0:18:18.311
We start at least a half an

0:18:18.352 --> 0:18:21.535
hour late basically every day, every day.

0:18:22.036 --> 0:18:23.416
So this is cutting into the time

0:18:25.057 --> 0:18:27.420
that the defense have to put

0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:27.980
their case out.

0:18:28.259 --> 0:18:29.201
So we've only heard really

0:18:29.221 --> 0:18:29.881
from Judith Curry,

0:18:29.901 --> 0:18:31.762
but we did get to hear from

0:18:31.863 --> 0:18:32.702
Professor Weiner,

0:18:33.104 --> 0:18:34.204
who you mentioned that I

0:18:34.244 --> 0:18:36.665
had a girl crush on Miss Weatherford.

0:18:36.905 --> 0:18:37.106
Well,

0:18:37.626 --> 0:18:39.969
she's been slightly replaced by

0:18:40.169 --> 0:18:41.509
Professor Dr. Weiner,

0:18:43.683 --> 0:18:44.763
My God, what a delight.

0:18:44.884 --> 0:18:45.384
And really,

0:18:45.464 --> 0:18:47.545
he has restored my faith in academia.

0:18:47.884 --> 0:18:49.826
He's from the Wharton School of Business.

0:18:49.865 --> 0:18:51.046
He's a statistician.

0:18:51.705 --> 0:18:53.727
And he's what every young

0:18:53.826 --> 0:18:55.948
person deserves when they

0:18:55.988 --> 0:18:58.428
go into third level education.

0:18:58.667 --> 0:19:00.088
He's very pure.

0:19:00.769 --> 0:19:03.230
He's incredibly excited by what he does.

0:19:03.769 --> 0:19:04.829
And he's somebody who

0:19:04.891 --> 0:19:06.990
analyzed Michael Mann's

0:19:07.411 --> 0:19:09.692
methods for creating the hockey stick.

0:19:10.071 --> 0:19:10.833
And I thought was

0:19:11.053 --> 0:19:12.833
devastating in the

0:19:12.873 --> 0:19:14.394
demonstratives that he presented.

0:19:14.574 --> 0:19:15.913
I thought he was devastating

0:19:16.273 --> 0:19:17.734
to the case because he

0:19:17.815 --> 0:19:20.096
showed and it was I think maybe Jim,

0:19:20.516 --> 0:19:21.516
maybe you have those visuals,

0:19:21.836 --> 0:19:23.057
but he was devastating.

0:19:23.096 --> 0:19:23.497
And I think.

0:19:23.997 --> 0:19:24.176
You know,

0:19:24.196 --> 0:19:25.798
a lot of this case is very technical.

0:19:25.838 --> 0:19:27.000
It's quite tough for people.

0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:28.601
I'm not a scientist.

0:19:28.661 --> 0:19:29.801
I find it very tough at

0:19:29.842 --> 0:19:30.903
times to keep up with some

0:19:30.942 --> 0:19:31.463
of the language.

0:19:32.144 --> 0:19:33.105
And yet there we are.

0:19:33.244 --> 0:19:33.545
There we are.

0:19:33.565 --> 0:19:34.266
We're going to start seeing

0:19:34.286 --> 0:19:35.086
some of Dr. Weiner's.

0:19:35.106 --> 0:19:37.048
But as I said, I've replaced it away.

0:19:37.127 --> 0:19:38.589
I still really do have a

0:19:38.630 --> 0:19:39.790
crush on Miss Weatherford.

0:19:39.810 --> 0:19:40.971
But I do think Dr. Weiner

0:19:41.332 --> 0:19:42.772
became my new favorite.

0:19:42.813 --> 0:19:43.933
And he's like my poster boy

0:19:43.973 --> 0:19:47.096
for just real intelligent, sober,

0:19:47.696 --> 0:19:48.557
serious science.

0:19:48.778 --> 0:19:50.398
delightful and charming way

0:19:50.439 --> 0:19:51.539
he presented and I noticed

0:19:51.559 --> 0:19:52.441
that the jury were very

0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:53.300
impressed with him they

0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:54.781
they really leaned into him

0:19:54.821 --> 0:19:55.903
they were all taking notes

0:19:56.383 --> 0:19:57.344
and he really did a lecture

0:19:57.364 --> 0:19:58.464
it was like you know they

0:19:58.484 --> 0:19:59.505
got the opportunity to have

0:19:59.525 --> 0:20:00.605
a statistics class that

0:20:00.625 --> 0:20:02.166
they hadn't asked for um

0:20:02.386 --> 0:20:03.208
and he gave these great

0:20:03.248 --> 0:20:04.107
visuals if you want to

0:20:04.528 --> 0:20:05.950
maybe talk us you know this

0:20:06.329 --> 0:20:07.371
at the moment on the screen

0:20:07.411 --> 0:20:08.351
for people who are watching

0:20:08.371 --> 0:20:09.912
there's a there's a there's

0:20:09.951 --> 0:20:11.153
a visual there of Dr

0:20:11.232 --> 0:20:12.334
Weiner's reconstruction

0:20:13.573 --> 0:20:14.854
Now, he had a number of these.

0:20:15.394 --> 0:20:16.213
He has a number of these.

0:20:16.273 --> 0:20:16.994
But as you can see,

0:20:17.015 --> 0:20:18.355
I think what's important

0:20:18.395 --> 0:20:19.655
there is if you see the top,

0:20:19.695 --> 0:20:21.057
the very top to the very

0:20:21.116 --> 0:20:24.137
bottom is the mapping of uncertainty.

0:20:24.519 --> 0:20:25.219
And this is really the

0:20:25.318 --> 0:20:27.099
center of what Dr. Weiner was saying,

0:20:27.140 --> 0:20:28.260
that in this whole climate,

0:20:29.260 --> 0:20:30.402
this climate conversation

0:20:30.761 --> 0:20:31.721
and in the conversation

0:20:31.761 --> 0:20:32.883
particularly about the hockey stick,

0:20:33.282 --> 0:20:34.262
The last period,

0:20:34.502 --> 0:20:35.703
which of course Dr. Weiner

0:20:35.763 --> 0:20:38.003
very honestly has done, created a line.

0:20:38.023 --> 0:20:39.243
So if you see that,

0:20:39.743 --> 0:20:41.744
the long line near the end there,

0:20:41.805 --> 0:20:43.204
which is coming into where

0:20:43.244 --> 0:20:45.265
we have the actual temperature record,

0:20:45.685 --> 0:20:47.125
he created a line to say,

0:20:47.185 --> 0:20:49.365
now we're using thermometers.

0:20:49.746 --> 0:20:52.007
But prior to that, they're using proxies.

0:20:52.267 --> 0:20:53.987
They're using these kind of ice cores.

0:20:54.027 --> 0:20:55.106
They're using tree ring data.

0:20:55.347 --> 0:20:56.048
They're using all these

0:20:56.127 --> 0:20:56.948
things from all over the

0:20:56.988 --> 0:20:57.508
world or whatever.

0:20:57.827 --> 0:20:58.548
And there's an incredible

0:20:58.568 --> 0:20:59.429
amount of uncertainty.

0:20:59.529 --> 0:21:00.951
It's probably fair to say

0:21:00.971 --> 0:21:01.892
there's a much less

0:21:01.951 --> 0:21:05.153
uncertainty after that line.

0:21:05.734 --> 0:21:07.276
But what he's basically

0:21:07.316 --> 0:21:08.497
saying is that with the

0:21:08.537 --> 0:21:10.078
data available with the proxies,

0:21:10.318 --> 0:21:12.421
does any number of potential

0:21:13.121 --> 0:21:14.461
graphs that you could create.

0:21:14.741 --> 0:21:15.442
And I don't know if you've

0:21:15.462 --> 0:21:16.403
got the slide there that

0:21:16.463 --> 0:21:17.904
shows the three different

0:21:18.144 --> 0:21:20.487
possibilities that have equal validity.

0:21:21.708 --> 0:21:22.189
Keep going.

0:21:22.209 --> 0:21:23.028
There's another one.

0:21:23.710 --> 0:21:25.171
Or maybe, oh, no, maybe you don't have it.

0:21:25.451 --> 0:21:26.071
But there's another one

0:21:26.092 --> 0:21:26.811
that's really fabulous.

0:21:27.031 --> 0:21:29.054
And it's green, red, and blue, I think.

0:21:29.074 --> 0:21:29.994
It's green and blue.

0:21:30.394 --> 0:21:30.915
Not this one.

0:21:31.155 --> 0:21:32.017
This one's interesting, though.

0:21:32.037 --> 0:21:33.096
I can talk to this one.

0:21:34.317 --> 0:21:35.419
So this one's very interesting.

0:21:35.900 --> 0:21:35.940
It

0:21:36.997 --> 0:21:38.198
Dr. Weiner made the point

0:21:38.218 --> 0:21:39.057
that in statistics,

0:21:39.238 --> 0:21:40.699
you're constantly making

0:21:40.939 --> 0:21:42.740
choices and you need to be

0:21:42.980 --> 0:21:44.540
very transparent about how

0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:45.382
you made those choices.

0:21:45.662 --> 0:21:46.742
So we said you're constantly

0:21:46.782 --> 0:21:47.762
coming to a fork in the road.

0:21:48.123 --> 0:21:48.683
Do I go right?

0:21:48.723 --> 0:21:49.284
Do I go left?

0:21:49.304 --> 0:21:50.223
There's nothing wrong with

0:21:50.365 --> 0:21:51.045
either direction,

0:21:51.285 --> 0:21:53.346
but you make choices and

0:21:53.365 --> 0:21:55.247
the choices will affect an outcome.

0:21:55.788 --> 0:21:57.468
And here's one of the choices.

0:21:57.808 --> 0:21:59.169
And it's very interesting

0:21:59.229 --> 0:22:01.391
for your viewers to look at this.

0:22:02.070 --> 0:22:03.994
Here's a number of choices available.

0:22:04.035 --> 0:22:06.298
There's 22 different data points here.

0:22:06.318 --> 0:22:08.864
And you see the graphs there.

0:22:08.884 --> 0:22:10.006
So 22 different lines there.

0:22:10.026 --> 0:22:11.347
And if you look at them,

0:22:12.563 --> 0:22:14.263
An awful lot of them are fairly flat.

0:22:14.663 --> 0:22:16.305
Enormous number of them are very flat.

0:22:16.505 --> 0:22:20.707
There are two of them that have a blade.

0:22:21.106 --> 0:22:22.728
So two of them kind of have

0:22:22.768 --> 0:22:25.890
a little bit of a, they go up at the end,

0:22:26.069 --> 0:22:26.670
two of them.

0:22:27.069 --> 0:22:28.550
So they're the two that

0:22:28.631 --> 0:22:32.313
Michael Mann chose from 22.

0:22:32.313 --> 0:22:33.653
He chose those two.

0:22:34.074 --> 0:22:38.015
He made a choice because he had a bias,

0:22:38.415 --> 0:22:39.855
because he wanted things to

0:22:39.895 --> 0:22:40.797
go a particular way.

0:22:41.477 --> 0:22:42.718
And I suppose what Dr.

0:22:42.917 --> 0:22:43.999
Weiner is saying is that

0:22:44.019 --> 0:22:44.739
you should be a lot more

0:22:44.798 --> 0:22:46.619
disinterested as a statistician.

0:22:47.059 --> 0:22:49.521
You shouldn't be looking for a result.

0:22:49.961 --> 0:22:50.883
And you should certainly be

0:22:50.923 --> 0:22:52.663
giving the people who are your audience

0:22:53.692 --> 0:22:56.053
the knowledge that this is all very,

0:22:56.173 --> 0:22:56.953
very uncertain.

0:22:57.314 --> 0:22:57.993
But I think that that

0:22:58.054 --> 0:22:59.255
slide's very instructive

0:22:59.315 --> 0:23:02.476
because it shows you that he chose, he,

0:23:02.675 --> 0:23:03.336
and they call it,

0:23:03.436 --> 0:23:05.356
I think they call it P-hacking.

0:23:05.758 --> 0:23:06.637
And some of your very

0:23:06.698 --> 0:23:08.479
intelligent listeners and

0:23:08.499 --> 0:23:10.460
viewers may pick me up on that,

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:11.119
but I think that's what's

0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:11.799
called P-hacking.

0:23:12.020 --> 0:23:13.121
So what you're doing is out

0:23:13.161 --> 0:23:13.621
of a number of

0:23:13.961 --> 0:23:15.342
opportunities and possibilities,

0:23:15.582 --> 0:23:17.103
all of them equally valid

0:23:18.137 --> 0:23:20.862
You choose the one that goes

0:23:20.922 --> 0:23:24.126
along with your bias, if you like.

0:23:24.548 --> 0:23:26.431
And his bias is, there we are.

0:23:26.471 --> 0:23:27.152
This is the one I love.

0:23:27.271 --> 0:23:28.113
Okay, this is the one I love.

0:23:28.614 --> 0:23:30.175
This is one of his, and I just love this.

0:23:30.196 --> 0:23:31.238
I think everyone should

0:23:31.278 --> 0:23:32.240
focus on this if you can.

0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:33.442
He said,

0:23:33.801 --> 0:23:35.084
here's different reconstructions

0:23:35.124 --> 0:23:36.424
that he made based on the data.

0:23:37.185 --> 0:23:39.489
Each of these is equally valid.

0:23:39.568 --> 0:23:40.750
That's the really important thing.

0:23:41.030 --> 0:23:42.051
Now, look at the green one.

0:23:42.532 --> 0:23:44.394
So the green one, if you look at it, right,

0:23:44.715 --> 0:23:46.196
it's equally valid to the red one.

0:23:46.257 --> 0:23:47.419
Now, the red one is very close.

0:23:47.479 --> 0:23:48.861
It's not Michael Mann's hockey stick,

0:23:49.060 --> 0:23:51.284
but it looks like it, right?

0:23:52.037 --> 0:23:53.917
But that red one is as valid

0:23:53.938 --> 0:23:54.479
as the blue one,

0:23:54.959 --> 0:23:56.119
is as valid as the green one.

0:23:56.519 --> 0:23:57.601
But look at the green one.

0:23:57.681 --> 0:23:59.321
The green one, it was warmer.

0:23:59.382 --> 0:24:00.942
Like, according to that green one,

0:24:01.502 --> 0:24:03.163
really nothing to see here in a way,

0:24:03.243 --> 0:24:03.484
right?

0:24:04.125 --> 0:24:06.246
It totally blows out of the

0:24:06.306 --> 0:24:08.688
water the Michael Mann hockey stick.

0:24:09.087 --> 0:24:10.809
which has the idea that the

0:24:10.869 --> 0:24:12.291
world was just doing hunky

0:24:12.311 --> 0:24:13.693
dory for a thousand years

0:24:14.054 --> 0:24:15.154
until we invented the

0:24:15.174 --> 0:24:16.155
combustion engine and

0:24:16.195 --> 0:24:17.597
introduced fossil fuels.

0:24:17.917 --> 0:24:18.739
And now we're all going to

0:24:18.778 --> 0:24:21.603
hell in a hike and hike in a cart.

0:24:21.643 --> 0:24:21.803
Right.

0:24:22.282 --> 0:24:23.704
But if you look at that,

0:24:23.924 --> 0:24:25.046
he's saying from a

0:24:25.106 --> 0:24:26.268
statistical point of view,

0:24:26.407 --> 0:24:27.449
each of these are equally valid.

0:24:27.730 --> 0:24:29.511
Now, the jury got to look at this.

0:24:30.528 --> 0:24:31.288
They got to look at this

0:24:31.868 --> 0:24:33.470
from a guy who's Yale.

0:24:34.089 --> 0:24:35.590
I'm going to run Stanford

0:24:35.951 --> 0:24:37.290
now at the Wharton School

0:24:37.731 --> 0:24:38.932
at the Wharton School, by the way,

0:24:38.951 --> 0:24:41.073
in the University of

0:24:41.113 --> 0:24:42.133
Pennsylvania and the very

0:24:42.192 --> 0:24:43.114
same institution where

0:24:43.134 --> 0:24:44.173
Michael Mann is teaching right now.

0:24:44.963 --> 0:24:46.144
This isn't a charlatan.

0:24:46.224 --> 0:24:49.885
This isn't some tinfoil hat wearing guy.

0:24:49.905 --> 0:24:51.326
This is a guy who knows his stuff.

0:24:51.866 --> 0:24:53.827
And he's saying these three

0:24:53.948 --> 0:24:54.688
are equally valid.

0:24:56.229 --> 0:24:56.449
Please.

0:24:56.509 --> 0:24:57.430
Just real quick, Sterling.

0:24:57.470 --> 0:24:58.450
I know we only got a few minutes.

0:24:58.609 --> 0:24:58.750
Andy,

0:24:58.769 --> 0:25:00.010
can you put that first chart that you

0:25:00.030 --> 0:25:01.551
had up there before that

0:25:01.692 --> 0:25:02.592
was shown to the jury?

0:25:02.612 --> 0:25:02.652
No.

0:25:04.853 --> 0:25:05.232
Keep going.

0:25:05.692 --> 0:25:06.233
You'll find it there.

0:25:06.253 --> 0:25:07.054
That one right there.

0:25:07.314 --> 0:25:07.473
So.

0:25:07.773 --> 0:25:08.954
So, Anne, in the time we have you,

0:25:09.755 --> 0:25:10.855
my recollection of watching

0:25:10.895 --> 0:25:14.657
this on on the stream was

0:25:14.678 --> 0:25:15.778
that the attorneys for

0:25:16.097 --> 0:25:17.979
Michael Mann were trying to say, like,

0:25:18.078 --> 0:25:18.759
that doesn't look like a

0:25:18.799 --> 0:25:19.640
hockey stick to you.

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:21.040
Doesn't that look like a

0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:21.721
hockey stick to you?

0:25:21.740 --> 0:25:22.020
It's like, no,

0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:22.580
that doesn't look like a

0:25:22.621 --> 0:25:23.402
hockey stick at all.

0:25:24.521 --> 0:25:26.883
It looks like, actually, a very,

0:25:27.003 --> 0:25:29.484
it looks like a U trend

0:25:29.605 --> 0:25:30.766
with the bottom of the U

0:25:31.746 --> 0:25:32.686
quite far to the right.

0:25:32.747 --> 0:25:33.166
But yeah,

0:25:33.527 --> 0:25:35.248
so I guess his attorneys were trying to,

0:25:35.288 --> 0:25:36.608
because it's important, I think,

0:25:37.028 --> 0:25:39.009
the case that what Mark

0:25:39.029 --> 0:25:40.150
Stein and Ransomberg had

0:25:40.190 --> 0:25:41.010
written was that the hockey

0:25:41.030 --> 0:25:42.070
stick graph is a fraud.

0:25:42.090 --> 0:25:43.011
In other words, it's fake.

0:25:43.092 --> 0:25:43.731
It's not real.

0:25:43.771 --> 0:25:44.692
It's not a hockey stick.

0:25:45.333 --> 0:25:46.492
And so when you can put this

0:25:46.792 --> 0:25:47.854
evidence up there from the

0:25:47.874 --> 0:25:49.933
statistician who knows how to, you know,

0:25:49.973 --> 0:25:52.015
and one of the things that Anthony Weiner,

0:25:53.055 --> 0:25:53.955
Abraham Weiner, I should say,

0:25:54.395 --> 0:25:55.355
said during the trial is

0:25:55.395 --> 0:25:57.336
that he is probably one of the most,

0:25:57.977 --> 0:25:58.797
certainly this country's

0:25:58.836 --> 0:26:00.137
most renowned statisticians.

0:26:00.357 --> 0:26:01.557
He has a radio show on

0:26:01.657 --> 0:26:03.939
Sirius XM radio as a statistician.

0:26:03.979 --> 0:26:04.659
That's, you know,

0:26:04.919 --> 0:26:05.798
how many statisticians have

0:26:05.818 --> 0:26:06.900
their own national radio shows?

0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:08.240
Yeah,

0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:09.740
we should give a shout out because

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:10.480
some of your listeners

0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:11.441
would probably really like

0:26:11.461 --> 0:26:12.221
this guy so much.

0:26:12.580 --> 0:26:13.642
And I haven't listened to the show,

0:26:13.682 --> 0:26:14.321
but it's called

0:26:15.125 --> 0:26:17.388
The Wharton Powerball, I think.

0:26:17.509 --> 0:26:18.329
So people can check it out.

0:26:18.569 --> 0:26:21.272
The Wharton Powerball and Powerball.

0:26:21.353 --> 0:26:23.015
And it's basically a lot of

0:26:23.095 --> 0:26:25.136
it is about sports statistics.

0:26:25.498 --> 0:26:26.659
But I just he's a delight.

0:26:26.679 --> 0:26:27.440
He's a complete delight.

0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:27.960
Actually,

0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:29.622
if you go back to the chart there

0:26:29.701 --> 0:26:30.844
with the three different colors.

0:26:31.684 --> 0:26:32.925
um what you're saying jim

0:26:32.965 --> 0:26:34.006
actually this is the chart

0:26:34.026 --> 0:26:34.665
that they were talking

0:26:34.685 --> 0:26:35.386
about and they were saying

0:26:35.747 --> 0:26:36.866
oh sure that green that

0:26:36.906 --> 0:26:38.008
green line is a hockey

0:26:38.028 --> 0:26:39.147
stick and I'm not even

0:26:39.188 --> 0:26:39.989
going to begin to argue

0:26:40.028 --> 0:26:41.068
with that the hockey stick

0:26:41.088 --> 0:26:42.869
that's in question is the

0:26:43.150 --> 0:26:45.070
hockey stick which is here

0:26:45.391 --> 0:26:46.632
which is basically where

0:26:46.932 --> 0:26:48.251
it's a hockey stick lying

0:26:48.332 --> 0:26:51.334
down lying horizontal where

0:26:51.374 --> 0:26:52.973
the blade sticks up and

0:26:53.095 --> 0:26:53.934
this idea that you're

0:26:53.954 --> 0:26:54.575
trying to confuse

0:26:54.615 --> 0:26:55.194
everything by saying

0:26:55.255 --> 0:26:56.316
everything looks like a hockey stick

0:26:56.980 --> 0:26:58.621
No, this actually looks, as you say,

0:26:58.681 --> 0:27:00.682
it comes down and goes up.

0:27:01.282 --> 0:27:03.744
But they were flailing.

0:27:03.904 --> 0:27:05.046
I felt they were flailing

0:27:05.086 --> 0:27:07.047
with this hockey stick back and forth.

0:27:07.406 --> 0:27:09.028
It's the hockey stick that

0:27:09.048 --> 0:27:09.929
has been criticized,

0:27:10.009 --> 0:27:11.589
which is Michael Mann's hockey stick,

0:27:11.911 --> 0:27:13.571
which has the 1,000 years

0:27:13.892 --> 0:27:15.673
flatline interrupted then

0:27:15.772 --> 0:27:17.515
by this catastrophic

0:27:17.615 --> 0:27:19.415
warming where we're all going to die.

0:27:19.695 --> 0:27:20.737
And something else I want to

0:27:20.777 --> 0:27:21.938
say that I really would love,

0:27:21.978 --> 0:27:22.698
and I maybe failed to

0:27:22.738 --> 0:27:23.659
mention it last week,

0:27:24.219 --> 0:27:26.381
was Ran Simberg made a speech,

0:27:26.780 --> 0:27:27.461
or not made a speech,

0:27:27.501 --> 0:27:28.863
but it was being questioned.

0:27:29.083 --> 0:27:31.785
And I really like Ran Simberg.

0:27:31.805 --> 0:27:35.227
He's a very serious man.

0:27:35.287 --> 0:27:37.249
He's actually what would be

0:27:37.288 --> 0:27:39.609
called colloquially a rocket scientist.

0:27:40.230 --> 0:27:41.672
Actually, genuinely, he's one of them.

0:27:41.751 --> 0:27:42.952
He's that kind of guy, right?

0:27:43.373 --> 0:27:45.835
But he said, why is this important?

0:27:46.174 --> 0:27:47.375
Why is all of this important?

0:27:47.695 --> 0:27:49.717
And it came up in the context of

0:27:50.518 --> 0:27:53.180
his criticism of Al Gore's

0:27:53.220 --> 0:27:54.240
An Inconvenient Truth.

0:27:54.921 --> 0:27:57.762
And this really meant a lot to me as well.

0:27:58.222 --> 0:27:59.503
And he said,

0:28:00.484 --> 0:28:01.945
he was criticizing that Al

0:28:01.965 --> 0:28:03.247
Gore's movie is being shown

0:28:03.287 --> 0:28:04.548
to kids in schools.

0:28:05.647 --> 0:28:07.690
And he made the point that

0:28:07.710 --> 0:28:08.971
for the first time in history,

0:28:09.869 --> 0:28:10.690
First time in history,

0:28:11.290 --> 0:28:13.151
young people are deciding

0:28:13.191 --> 0:28:14.172
not to have children.

0:28:14.711 --> 0:28:14.951
Right.

0:28:15.392 --> 0:28:16.553
Because they're so

0:28:16.633 --> 0:28:19.273
terrorized and depressed by

0:28:19.314 --> 0:28:20.594
the teacher who they love

0:28:21.335 --> 0:28:23.174
and respect and believe in

0:28:23.516 --> 0:28:25.476
telling them we're all going to die.

0:28:25.797 --> 0:28:26.896
We're going to fry.

0:28:27.217 --> 0:28:28.758
So if you were to have a child, I mean,

0:28:28.778 --> 0:28:29.998
who in their right mind would do that,

0:28:30.038 --> 0:28:30.357
by the way,

0:28:30.577 --> 0:28:31.499
have a child and bring them

0:28:31.519 --> 0:28:33.299
into some kind of apocalyptic nightmare?

0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:34.119
Nobody would do that.

0:28:34.619 --> 0:28:36.564
So the teachers that they are, so children,

0:28:36.703 --> 0:28:37.605
and I've noticed this when

0:28:37.625 --> 0:28:38.646
I've spoken on campuses,

0:28:38.666 --> 0:28:39.328
and it's something that

0:28:39.429 --> 0:28:41.412
matters a great deal to me,

0:28:41.972 --> 0:28:42.974
is I go to these campuses

0:28:42.994 --> 0:28:44.678
and I meet these depressed young people.

0:28:45.346 --> 0:28:46.468
And I'm thinking, you know,

0:28:46.508 --> 0:28:47.528
and I know you guys and I

0:28:47.568 --> 0:28:49.349
know we're all on the same team here,

0:28:49.529 --> 0:28:49.830
whatever.

0:28:49.851 --> 0:28:50.411
But, you know,

0:28:50.811 --> 0:28:52.593
it's never it's never been better.

0:28:52.972 --> 0:28:54.134
We're so lucky.

0:28:54.193 --> 0:28:55.115
We can't even we don't even

0:28:55.174 --> 0:28:55.976
know how lucky we are.

0:28:56.296 --> 0:28:57.416
People are walking around and they're,

0:28:57.477 --> 0:28:59.238
you know, Richard Linsen the other day.

0:28:59.278 --> 0:29:00.599
And I could talk a little bit about him.

0:29:00.619 --> 0:29:01.640
I can stay on a bit longer.

0:29:01.961 --> 0:29:04.082
Richard Linsen, you know, an advanced age.

0:29:04.122 --> 0:29:04.942
And there he was, you know,

0:29:05.262 --> 0:29:06.443
coming in to give evidence

0:29:06.483 --> 0:29:08.286
from Paris through Zoom.

0:29:08.306 --> 0:29:09.846
It didn't work, but the technology.

0:29:10.126 --> 0:29:11.307
But we're living at the best

0:29:11.347 --> 0:29:12.348
time in history and young

0:29:12.409 --> 0:29:13.309
people should be told that.

0:29:13.710 --> 0:29:15.351
and told to be enthusiastic

0:29:15.691 --> 0:29:16.951
and told to get excited and

0:29:16.991 --> 0:29:17.932
have loads of children

0:29:17.951 --> 0:29:18.472
because one of their

0:29:18.492 --> 0:29:20.733
children will cure cancer

0:29:21.253 --> 0:29:22.835
and make them joyful and be

0:29:23.115 --> 0:29:24.455
Beethoven or not even be

0:29:24.476 --> 0:29:25.496
Beethoven and annoy them,

0:29:25.777 --> 0:29:27.498
but be magnificent and a joy to them.

0:29:27.877 --> 0:29:28.637
But instead of that,

0:29:28.678 --> 0:29:29.439
they're being brought up in

0:29:29.459 --> 0:29:33.580
this horribly doomsary environment.

0:29:33.641 --> 0:29:35.261
And Rand said that on the stand.

0:29:35.301 --> 0:29:37.923
And I just really, I really loved that.

0:29:37.962 --> 0:29:39.604
And I think this is what

0:29:39.644 --> 0:29:40.605
this case is about.

0:29:40.625 --> 0:29:42.705
And this is why they need to win.

0:29:43.628 --> 0:29:43.808
Yeah.

0:29:44.388 --> 0:29:45.569
Yeah.

0:29:45.769 --> 0:29:46.630
Just one last thing I want

0:29:46.650 --> 0:29:48.371
to mention about Abraham Weiner.

0:29:48.510 --> 0:29:49.791
He said he testified that

0:29:49.832 --> 0:29:51.772
the reason because actually

0:29:51.792 --> 0:29:53.292
the man's attorneys were like,

0:29:53.313 --> 0:29:54.173
this is the first time

0:29:54.193 --> 0:29:54.933
you've ever gone into

0:29:55.034 --> 0:29:56.615
climate science and statistics.

0:29:56.674 --> 0:29:56.815
Right.

0:29:56.835 --> 0:29:57.494
And you haven't really done

0:29:57.515 --> 0:29:58.615
a lot of other work when it

0:29:58.635 --> 0:30:00.396
comes to climate science and statistics,

0:30:00.436 --> 0:30:00.676
have you?

0:30:00.856 --> 0:30:01.477
And he says, no.

0:30:01.836 --> 0:30:02.678
But he said, you know,

0:30:02.698 --> 0:30:03.698
that wasn't really his thing.

0:30:03.877 --> 0:30:04.858
His thing is statistics.

0:30:05.078 --> 0:30:06.038
And he said he looked at the

0:30:06.058 --> 0:30:06.979
hockey stick and he looked.

0:30:07.259 --> 0:30:07.579
He says.

0:30:08.259 --> 0:30:08.519
you know,

0:30:08.901 --> 0:30:10.602
what Michael Mann was trying to

0:30:10.642 --> 0:30:12.182
do with statistics.

0:30:12.242 --> 0:30:13.384
And he is not a statistician.

0:30:13.743 --> 0:30:15.125
He said that was the hardest

0:30:15.224 --> 0:30:16.365
problem I could even

0:30:16.425 --> 0:30:18.228
imagine having to deal with

0:30:18.587 --> 0:30:19.709
with statistical algorithms.

0:30:20.048 --> 0:30:21.329
And so one of the country's

0:30:21.390 --> 0:30:22.711
most renowned statisticians

0:30:23.332 --> 0:30:24.132
actually takes a look at

0:30:24.152 --> 0:30:25.733
the data and comes to a

0:30:26.054 --> 0:30:26.974
very different conclusion.

0:30:27.075 --> 0:30:27.894
And actually what he did is

0:30:27.914 --> 0:30:29.336
he exposed that what

0:30:29.375 --> 0:30:30.436
Michael Mann did and which

0:30:30.497 --> 0:30:31.278
is what he's being

0:30:31.298 --> 0:30:32.398
criticized for and what

0:30:32.419 --> 0:30:33.720
he's suing over is that he

0:30:33.740 --> 0:30:35.361
was cherry picking data and that, frankly,

0:30:35.401 --> 0:30:36.261
he doesn't know what he's doing.

0:30:36.642 --> 0:30:37.422
When it comes to a

0:30:37.662 --> 0:30:39.202
statistical analysis of

0:30:39.323 --> 0:30:42.722
both temperature records and proxy data.

0:30:43.143 --> 0:30:44.963
On that point, you know, on that point,

0:30:46.663 --> 0:30:47.784
you know, man, when he,

0:30:47.804 --> 0:30:48.545
when he was just fine,

0:30:48.585 --> 0:30:49.565
he specifically said, no,

0:30:49.605 --> 0:30:50.605
I'm not a statistician.

0:30:51.644 --> 0:30:53.246
And they said, well, you had status.

0:30:53.326 --> 0:30:54.786
No, I didn't work with statisticians.

0:30:55.026 --> 0:30:57.125
We, we talked to a few, we consulted,

0:30:57.185 --> 0:30:59.166
but they weren't part of the,

0:30:59.346 --> 0:31:00.626
they weren't part of the research team.

0:31:01.227 --> 0:31:02.527
So a non-statistician

0:31:02.788 --> 0:31:04.907
produces a statistical analysis of,

0:31:06.009 --> 0:31:07.551
And then they criticize the

0:31:07.592 --> 0:31:09.413
statistician who analyzes

0:31:09.453 --> 0:31:10.494
their analysis because he's

0:31:10.535 --> 0:31:11.616
not a climate scientist.

0:31:12.076 --> 0:31:13.258
He's not a climate scientist.

0:31:13.278 --> 0:31:14.220
It was about the results of

0:31:14.259 --> 0:31:15.881
their statistical analysis.

0:31:16.082 --> 0:31:17.643
Correct.

0:31:17.683 --> 0:31:18.724
That graphic to me

0:31:21.148 --> 0:31:22.009
I know hockey sticks.

0:31:22.068 --> 0:31:22.829
They are flat.

0:31:22.930 --> 0:31:24.130
And then they have a blade at the end.

0:31:24.269 --> 0:31:25.550
And that's what man's look like.

0:31:26.211 --> 0:31:27.330
Flat with blade.

0:31:27.671 --> 0:31:28.672
That looks like a bucket

0:31:28.692 --> 0:31:31.853
scoop on the front of a tractor.

0:31:32.292 --> 0:31:32.472
Yeah.

0:31:32.512 --> 0:31:32.673
Right.

0:31:32.752 --> 0:31:33.032
You know,

0:31:33.413 --> 0:31:35.473
and it does show very clearly

0:31:35.814 --> 0:31:38.394
that there was no flat before.

0:31:38.414 --> 0:31:38.654
Right.

0:31:39.740 --> 0:31:40.361
What's you know,

0:31:40.381 --> 0:31:41.642
what's also great about Dr.

0:31:41.682 --> 0:31:43.962
Weiner is and it's such an

0:31:44.002 --> 0:31:45.583
interesting thing about statistics.

0:31:45.663 --> 0:31:47.223
I literally can imagine some of the jury,

0:31:47.263 --> 0:31:47.584
by the way,

0:31:47.644 --> 0:31:48.644
deciding that they're going to

0:31:48.664 --> 0:31:49.825
study statistics after this,

0:31:50.025 --> 0:31:50.545
because it's really

0:31:50.585 --> 0:31:52.105
fascinating because it

0:31:52.145 --> 0:31:52.905
doesn't matter that he

0:31:52.925 --> 0:31:54.027
doesn't know anything about climate.

0:31:54.047 --> 0:31:54.287
In fact,

0:31:54.346 --> 0:31:56.407
it's almost an advantage that he

0:31:56.448 --> 0:31:57.548
doesn't know anything about climate.

0:31:57.988 --> 0:31:59.068
He knows about data.

0:31:59.628 --> 0:32:00.549
And what we're looking at

0:32:00.589 --> 0:32:01.250
when we look at these

0:32:01.329 --> 0:32:03.511
graphs is data and how data

0:32:03.571 --> 0:32:05.633
has been manipulated or

0:32:05.692 --> 0:32:07.433
dealt with in order to create a result.

0:32:07.554 --> 0:32:09.755
And it's very legitimate for

0:32:09.775 --> 0:32:11.236
a statistician to come along and say,

0:32:11.276 --> 0:32:11.957
let's have a look at this

0:32:11.997 --> 0:32:12.896
and how this was created

0:32:13.257 --> 0:32:14.458
and if this is accurate,

0:32:14.498 --> 0:32:16.940
because the stakes are very high here.

0:32:16.960 --> 0:32:18.361
This is trillions of dollars.

0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:20.041
This is people who froze to

0:32:20.082 --> 0:32:21.762
death in Texas.

0:32:22.462 --> 0:32:23.443
by the way this is about

0:32:23.503 --> 0:32:24.884
people who froze to death

0:32:24.944 --> 0:32:26.445
in texas including a child

0:32:26.945 --> 0:32:27.926
this is what this is about

0:32:27.946 --> 0:32:29.387
this is about the lights

0:32:29.407 --> 0:32:30.648
going off in germany this

0:32:30.669 --> 0:32:31.549
is this is what this is

0:32:31.609 --> 0:32:32.829
about this it could the

0:32:32.849 --> 0:32:34.270
stakes could not possibly

0:32:34.310 --> 0:32:35.612
be higher so yes you should

0:32:35.652 --> 0:32:37.133
invite if you care you

0:32:37.153 --> 0:32:38.453
should be inviting everyone

0:32:38.493 --> 0:32:39.515
in to criticize your

0:32:39.555 --> 0:32:40.855
results because we're all

0:32:40.895 --> 0:32:41.777
in this together this

0:32:41.936 --> 0:32:43.157
really really matters

0:32:43.738 --> 0:32:45.378
But I loved what Dr. Weiner said.

0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:46.921
He talked about how

0:32:48.041 --> 0:32:50.884
confirmation bias and p-hacking,

0:32:51.044 --> 0:32:51.584
et cetera,

0:32:51.644 --> 0:32:53.326
these inappropriate ways of

0:32:53.365 --> 0:32:54.567
dealing with data

0:32:55.492 --> 0:32:57.074
create results that are incorrect.

0:32:57.115 --> 0:32:59.115
And he gave fabulous examples,

0:32:59.175 --> 0:33:00.356
and not as serious,

0:33:00.396 --> 0:33:01.939
but he gave a wonderful example about,

0:33:01.959 --> 0:33:02.878
I think it was,

0:33:02.959 --> 0:33:04.621
and he mentioned it without

0:33:04.641 --> 0:33:05.481
getting into too many details,

0:33:05.801 --> 0:33:07.323
about a cough medicine,

0:33:07.884 --> 0:33:08.743
which then had been

0:33:09.045 --> 0:33:09.904
scrutinized by

0:33:10.005 --> 0:33:11.105
statisticians who came back

0:33:11.145 --> 0:33:12.968
and basically said, hmm, OK,

0:33:13.468 --> 0:33:14.628
that cough medicine that

0:33:14.669 --> 0:33:15.809
we've all been taking all

0:33:15.829 --> 0:33:18.553
around the world forever does nothing.

0:33:19.432 --> 0:33:22.714
And so people like this Dr. Weiner,

0:33:23.795 --> 0:33:24.855
the world needs more of him.

0:33:24.935 --> 0:33:25.736
And I'll tell you one other

0:33:25.756 --> 0:33:26.936
thing that I really think is important.

0:33:27.517 --> 0:33:28.196
One thing that has really

0:33:28.237 --> 0:33:29.637
struck me in this case and

0:33:29.678 --> 0:33:30.597
sitting in that court case

0:33:30.637 --> 0:33:32.479
is what has been going on

0:33:32.519 --> 0:33:34.259
in that courtroom is what

0:33:34.299 --> 0:33:35.500
should be going on in the

0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:37.480
town square of every town in the world.

0:33:38.362 --> 0:33:39.162
And it's what's not

0:33:39.221 --> 0:33:41.022
happening because the

0:33:41.123 --> 0:33:42.503
climate change alarmists

0:33:42.903 --> 0:33:44.865
will not debate anything.

0:33:45.740 --> 0:33:46.881
They will not debate.

0:33:47.181 --> 0:33:48.082
And so there's something

0:33:48.221 --> 0:33:49.663
very powerful happening in

0:33:49.682 --> 0:33:51.365
this courtroom where they

0:33:51.424 --> 0:33:53.807
are having to answer questions.

0:33:54.007 --> 0:33:55.587
And my God, they hate us.

0:33:56.249 --> 0:33:57.589
That's why Michael Mann does

0:33:57.650 --> 0:34:00.853
not want to talk to anyone who won't,

0:34:01.472 --> 0:34:03.394
you know, to celebrate him.

0:34:04.096 --> 0:34:06.017
without question you know he

0:34:06.057 --> 0:34:07.196
wants to pal around as he

0:34:07.237 --> 0:34:08.958
said he has a bromance with

0:34:09.018 --> 0:34:10.838
leonardo dicaprio you know

0:34:10.878 --> 0:34:11.739
and we didn't mention I

0:34:11.759 --> 0:34:12.778
presume phelan mentioned it

0:34:12.818 --> 0:34:15.340
last week the idea that 12

0:34:15.340 --> 0:34:16.940
years of litigation he has

0:34:17.039 --> 0:34:19.260
never spent a penny he is

0:34:19.320 --> 0:34:20.601
in law here trying to

0:34:20.641 --> 0:34:23.141
destroy people michael mark

0:34:23.161 --> 0:34:24.043
stein is there in the

0:34:24.083 --> 0:34:25.963
courtroom in a wheelchair I

0:34:26.403 --> 0:34:27.523
mean it's horrible

0:34:28.123 --> 0:34:29.925
And it's no small measure

0:34:30.005 --> 0:34:30.826
that he is in that

0:34:30.846 --> 0:34:32.226
wheelchair because of this litigation.

0:34:32.467 --> 0:34:33.728
Who would be fit for it?

0:34:34.248 --> 0:34:36.009
The bills are astronomical.

0:34:36.469 --> 0:34:37.951
They're frightening.

0:34:38.371 --> 0:34:38.610
I mean,

0:34:38.630 --> 0:34:39.931
I have a very good friend who's a

0:34:39.972 --> 0:34:40.853
lawyer in town here.

0:34:41.172 --> 0:34:43.594
He explained to me that the

0:34:44.315 --> 0:34:46.597
average kind of price for

0:34:46.617 --> 0:34:48.358
these lawyers is fifteen

0:34:48.458 --> 0:34:49.679
hundred dollars an hour.

0:34:50.199 --> 0:34:52.400
But most of them are twenty

0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:53.800
five hundred dollars an hour.

0:34:53.940 --> 0:34:54.481
Most of them.

0:34:54.862 --> 0:34:56.543
So fifteen hundred is kind of, you know,

0:34:56.563 --> 0:34:57.603
the kind of the lower end.

0:34:58.505 --> 0:35:01.206
Let's exaggerate downwards

0:35:01.226 --> 0:35:01.726
and say $1,000 an hour.

0:35:01.746 --> 0:35:02.688
This is hours and hours and

0:35:03.208 --> 0:35:03.628
hours for 12 years.

0:35:08.222 --> 0:35:09.543
This is huge money.

0:35:10.003 --> 0:35:11.925
So somebody is paying Michael Mann.

0:35:12.045 --> 0:35:13.184
We don't know who is doing it,

0:35:13.746 --> 0:35:15.505
but it's a nightmare.

0:35:15.867 --> 0:35:18.148
If you, you know, so basically the word,

0:35:18.427 --> 0:35:18.947
you know,

0:35:18.987 --> 0:35:20.088
the word that goes out there is

0:35:20.168 --> 0:35:20.789
be careful.

0:35:21.188 --> 0:35:23.130
Oh God, you skeptics,

0:35:23.530 --> 0:35:24.771
be careful because I'll

0:35:24.811 --> 0:35:26.851
come after you and I will destroy you.

0:35:26.891 --> 0:35:27.711
I'll take your home.

0:35:27.731 --> 0:35:29.373
I'll make sure your children

0:35:29.413 --> 0:35:30.112
don't go to college.

0:35:30.333 --> 0:35:31.213
I'll take your house.

0:35:31.813 --> 0:35:34.074
We will destroy you for having an opinion.

0:35:34.710 --> 0:35:36.831
Well, the irony here, Anne,

0:35:36.871 --> 0:35:38.391
is that in testimony,

0:35:38.811 --> 0:35:40.172
I believe it was John Abraham,

0:35:40.333 --> 0:35:43.635
was that one of Michael Mann's witnesses?

0:35:44.054 --> 0:35:44.795
He's the founder of

0:35:44.835 --> 0:35:45.396
something called the

0:35:45.436 --> 0:35:47.117
Climate Science Legal Defense Fund.

0:35:47.137 --> 0:35:47.356
I mean,

0:35:47.396 --> 0:35:48.858
we actually mentioned this on the

0:35:48.898 --> 0:35:50.259
podcast with Phelan last week.

0:35:50.998 --> 0:35:51.539
And, you know,

0:35:51.599 --> 0:35:52.701
it's the Climate Science

0:35:52.800 --> 0:35:54.443
Legal Defense Fund.

0:35:55.103 --> 0:35:56.864
And that is why, presumably,

0:35:56.925 --> 0:35:57.826
Michael Mann has not spent

0:35:57.905 --> 0:35:59.987
a thin dime of his own

0:36:00.047 --> 0:36:01.170
money while emptying the

0:36:01.210 --> 0:36:02.590
bank accounts and causing

0:36:02.650 --> 0:36:03.672
financial ruination and

0:36:03.731 --> 0:36:05.233
physical ruination of men

0:36:05.253 --> 0:36:06.554
like Mark Stein and Rand Simberg.

0:36:07.036 --> 0:36:07.635
They should call it the

0:36:07.675 --> 0:36:08.677
Climate Science Legal

0:36:08.936 --> 0:36:10.398
Offense Fund because

0:36:10.458 --> 0:36:11.880
apparently its only purpose...

0:36:12.460 --> 0:36:13.681
is for people like Michael Mann,

0:36:13.722 --> 0:36:15.043
a serial litigator and a

0:36:15.083 --> 0:36:16.666
nasty piece of business to

0:36:16.706 --> 0:36:19.289
have unlimited funds to sue

0:36:19.409 --> 0:36:20.789
anybody who criticizes him

0:36:20.909 --> 0:36:22.132
in a way that he finds

0:36:23.273 --> 0:36:24.815
distasteful and people that

0:36:24.835 --> 0:36:27.438
he sees as vulnerable to being ruined.

0:36:27.538 --> 0:36:28.818
So it's not a defense fund,

0:36:29.079 --> 0:36:31.121
it's an offense fund and it's disgusting.

0:36:31.882 --> 0:36:33.643
Jim, this is just taking I mean,

0:36:33.702 --> 0:36:34.804
Michael Mann is basically

0:36:34.844 --> 0:36:36.465
just using the tactics of

0:36:36.525 --> 0:36:38.505
Greenpeace and them at the

0:36:38.967 --> 0:36:40.507
individual level, you know,

0:36:40.547 --> 0:36:41.967
instead of going after, you know,

0:36:42.007 --> 0:36:43.228
Greenpeace will try to sue

0:36:43.289 --> 0:36:44.989
like a utility company or

0:36:45.030 --> 0:36:47.110
something to get them, you know,

0:36:47.311 --> 0:36:48.632
trapped in such expensive

0:36:48.672 --> 0:36:49.632
litigation that they just

0:36:49.773 --> 0:36:51.653
opt to close down a coal plant anyway.

0:36:51.673 --> 0:36:52.534
Right.

0:36:54.456 --> 0:36:55.936
And Michael Mann is doing the same thing,

0:36:55.996 --> 0:36:57.918
but instead of going after groups,

0:36:57.958 --> 0:36:59.059
he goes after individuals

0:36:59.099 --> 0:37:00.500
who call him mean names on

0:37:00.619 --> 0:37:02.041
Twitter or blog posts.

0:37:02.260 --> 0:37:03.041
It's lawfare.

0:37:04.322 --> 0:37:06.903
And it's lawfare attacking.

0:37:07.905 --> 0:37:08.905
I don't think that the

0:37:08.945 --> 0:37:10.766
fundamental issue is science.

0:37:10.806 --> 0:37:11.567
I think the fundamental

0:37:11.586 --> 0:37:12.788
issue is free speech.

0:37:13.108 --> 0:37:14.869
We have a First Amendment in this country.

0:37:15.028 --> 0:37:16.050
They don't have it in Canada.

0:37:16.369 --> 0:37:17.291
They don't have it in Europe.

0:37:17.731 --> 0:37:18.512
We have it here.

0:37:18.532 --> 0:37:18.851
Yes.

0:37:19.532 --> 0:37:21.434
And supposedly that is

0:37:21.474 --> 0:37:22.876
supposed to identify you

0:37:23.516 --> 0:37:26.260
unless you are actually committing fraud.

0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:27.360
And there's no evidence that

0:37:27.380 --> 0:37:28.442
these people have committed fraud.

0:37:28.483 --> 0:37:29.282
They mocked him.

0:37:29.744 --> 0:37:31.346
Mocking public figures is

0:37:31.385 --> 0:37:32.106
supposed to be OK.

0:37:32.166 --> 0:37:32.266
Yes.

0:37:32.547 --> 0:37:32.786
Yes.

0:37:33.228 --> 0:37:33.487
Yeah.

0:37:34.588 --> 0:37:35.409
and should be encouraged.

0:37:35.768 --> 0:37:37.590
And so the result of this is

0:37:37.909 --> 0:37:38.969
incredibly important.

0:37:39.369 --> 0:37:41.110
Jim, were you going to play another clip?

0:37:41.130 --> 0:37:42.130
Because I'd love the

0:37:42.170 --> 0:37:43.951
listeners to hear the better audio,

0:37:44.731 --> 0:37:45.931
just to realize that the

0:37:45.972 --> 0:37:48.313
podcast has very high production values.

0:37:48.353 --> 0:37:49.152
And I'd love them to hear

0:37:49.213 --> 0:37:51.572
the better audio in the second clip.

0:37:51.893 --> 0:37:52.914
Because what we're doing is,

0:37:52.994 --> 0:37:53.934
as people probably know,

0:37:54.233 --> 0:37:54.974
your listeners probably

0:37:54.994 --> 0:37:55.693
know this quite well,

0:37:55.733 --> 0:37:57.695
we have actors over in Los Angeles

0:37:58.215 --> 0:37:59.436
who you know the way we're

0:37:59.456 --> 0:38:00.416
doing this is we go to the

0:38:00.456 --> 0:38:01.898
court every day we come out

0:38:02.057 --> 0:38:03.438
we work on the transcript

0:38:03.900 --> 0:38:05.740
then we send the transcript

0:38:06.141 --> 0:38:08.563
to los angeles have actors

0:38:08.643 --> 0:38:10.405
reenact the best parts of

0:38:10.445 --> 0:38:11.385
the day the most dramatic

0:38:11.405 --> 0:38:13.086
parts of the day then we go

0:38:13.126 --> 0:38:15.289
to a studio here we record the links

0:38:15.829 --> 0:38:17.230
Then all of that gets sent

0:38:17.289 --> 0:38:19.411
to an editor in Dublin, Ireland,

0:38:19.472 --> 0:38:21.172
who works overnight and it

0:38:21.233 --> 0:38:22.134
comes out in the morning.

0:38:22.173 --> 0:38:24.275
So it's quite the production,

0:38:24.315 --> 0:38:25.016
as you can imagine.

0:38:25.195 --> 0:38:26.396
And anyone out there, by the way,

0:38:26.436 --> 0:38:27.157
who wants to help us,

0:38:27.257 --> 0:38:28.038
we would appreciate it.

0:38:28.338 --> 0:38:30.119
We're the Unreported Story Society,

0:38:30.179 --> 0:38:31.280
by the way, and we are a 501c3.

0:38:32.452 --> 0:38:32.652
Yes.

0:38:32.731 --> 0:38:33.592
OK, Andy, you're.

0:38:34.074 --> 0:38:34.554
Yeah, there you go.

0:38:34.653 --> 0:38:35.014
And so, yeah,

0:38:35.034 --> 0:38:35.775
we'll play that clip real

0:38:35.795 --> 0:38:36.496
quick so people can hear

0:38:36.536 --> 0:38:38.717
the fantastic audio quality

0:38:38.759 --> 0:38:41.400
of this very professional production.

0:38:41.742 --> 0:38:42.842
So this is Rand Simberg.

0:38:42.902 --> 0:38:43.704
And then I hope we have time.

0:38:43.724 --> 0:38:44.403
I hope that your feet

0:38:44.423 --> 0:38:46.166
doesn't turn into a pumpkin too soon.

0:38:46.226 --> 0:38:47.286
I have to ask you about the

0:38:47.887 --> 0:38:48.969
attempt to dismiss the case

0:38:49.009 --> 0:38:49.809
and what the judge said,

0:38:49.849 --> 0:38:50.971
because people watching the

0:38:50.990 --> 0:38:52.472
trial had no idea what the judge said.

0:38:52.713 --> 0:38:53.072
But actually,

0:38:53.092 --> 0:38:54.994
you can get it on episode 10.

0:38:54.994 --> 0:38:56.217
climate change on trial.

0:38:56.277 --> 0:38:57.637
So but maybe they can give us a preview.

0:38:58.199 --> 0:38:58.438
Anyway,

0:38:58.478 --> 0:39:00.021
so so they tried to make a big deal.

0:39:00.621 --> 0:39:03.344
Ran Simberg in his brief blog post said,

0:39:03.364 --> 0:39:05.367
I guess you can call me a denier.

0:39:06.148 --> 0:39:07.951
And I'm not quite sure what

0:39:08.271 --> 0:39:09.092
point they were trying to make.

0:39:09.192 --> 0:39:11.054
But that is the plaintiffs.

0:39:11.855 --> 0:39:13.675
But, you know, we're called deniers,

0:39:13.715 --> 0:39:14.315
climate deniers.

0:39:14.375 --> 0:39:14.554
I mean,

0:39:14.574 --> 0:39:15.416
Michael Mann must have said the

0:39:15.436 --> 0:39:16.396
word denier in his own

0:39:16.436 --> 0:39:17.815
testimony about 100 times.

0:39:19.016 --> 0:39:19.315
But, yeah,

0:39:19.516 --> 0:39:21.237
let's play this clip from Rand Simberg,

0:39:21.617 --> 0:39:24.317
who I imagine, I think the actor,

0:39:24.356 --> 0:39:24.856
I hope he is,

0:39:26.237 --> 0:39:28.097
mirroring the sense of

0:39:28.518 --> 0:39:30.978
exasperation the actor has

0:39:30.998 --> 0:39:32.619
in playing the role of Rand Simberg.

0:39:32.639 --> 0:39:33.619
So, Andy, go ahead and cue that up,

0:39:33.639 --> 0:39:33.878
please.

0:39:34.679 --> 0:39:37.159
When you say, now consider me a denier,

0:39:37.219 --> 0:39:38.300
what do you mean by that?

0:39:38.860 --> 0:39:39.920
Denier in quotes.

0:39:40.579 --> 0:39:40.800
I know.

0:39:41.422 --> 0:39:42.784
It means that I believe

0:39:42.824 --> 0:39:44.945
what... I was kind of upset

0:39:44.985 --> 0:39:45.626
when I wrote that.

0:39:45.746 --> 0:39:46.865
And what it really means is

0:39:46.905 --> 0:39:49.788
that I'm... I'm kind of

0:39:49.847 --> 0:39:50.869
skeptical about the

0:39:50.889 --> 0:39:51.949
validity of the climate

0:39:52.030 --> 0:39:53.230
science up to this point.

0:39:53.431 --> 0:39:54.931
I'm seeing what I think is

0:39:55.132 --> 0:39:57.432
actual deception resulting

0:39:57.472 --> 0:39:58.773
from the ClimateGate emails.

0:39:59.153 --> 0:40:00.295
That's really what I am saying.

0:40:00.932 --> 0:40:01.934
When you say that you have

0:40:01.954 --> 0:40:03.815
been skeptical of climate science,

0:40:04.594 --> 0:40:05.335
are you referring to

0:40:05.376 --> 0:40:06.916
climate change or are you

0:40:06.976 --> 0:40:08.137
referring to the issues

0:40:08.177 --> 0:40:09.097
that are in this case,

0:40:09.177 --> 0:40:10.217
which is the research

0:40:10.297 --> 0:40:11.778
around the historical temperatures?

0:40:12.639 --> 0:40:13.719
I was referring to really

0:40:13.739 --> 0:40:15.521
the hockey stick and all

0:40:15.541 --> 0:40:16.722
the hype it got in

0:40:16.762 --> 0:40:17.722
particular at the IPCC.

0:40:17.762 --> 0:40:17.902
Yeah.

0:40:21.146 --> 0:40:22.208
yeah you get to hear you get

0:40:22.228 --> 0:40:23.427
to hear the audio there um

0:40:23.688 --> 0:40:24.949
and uh you know the

0:40:24.969 --> 0:40:26.208
production values which I

0:40:26.248 --> 0:40:27.369
have no I have no hand in

0:40:27.409 --> 0:40:28.731
but other great people are

0:40:28.771 --> 0:40:30.811
involved with um and yeah I

0:40:30.851 --> 0:40:32.612
mean so yeah so rand

0:40:32.652 --> 0:40:33.452
simberg had referred to

0:40:33.492 --> 0:40:35.074
himself in inverted commas

0:40:35.114 --> 0:40:36.554
as a denier I mean I'm very

0:40:36.614 --> 0:40:37.795
sensitive about this denier

0:40:37.835 --> 0:40:38.954
thing I've got you know I

0:40:39.275 --> 0:40:40.556
I'm an irish catholic but I

0:40:40.596 --> 0:40:42.036
came to live in america and

0:40:42.097 --> 0:40:43.418
I happened to have ended up

0:40:43.458 --> 0:40:44.057
in los angeles

0:40:44.418 --> 0:40:45.458
And basically everyone I

0:40:45.498 --> 0:40:46.880
love now in the world is Jewish.

0:40:47.260 --> 0:40:49.461
So I'm very sensitive about

0:40:49.501 --> 0:40:50.541
the word denier because I

0:40:50.601 --> 0:40:51.543
think it has been always

0:40:51.583 --> 0:40:52.824
reserved for people who

0:40:52.844 --> 0:40:54.105
deny that 6 million people

0:40:54.144 --> 0:40:56.505
were tortured and executed by the Nazis.

0:40:57.106 --> 0:40:59.088
And I think any other use of it,

0:40:59.367 --> 0:41:00.329
I almost feel like it's a,

0:41:01.195 --> 0:41:03.235
But it's somehow almost sacred.

0:41:03.335 --> 0:41:03.956
You know, it's a word.

0:41:04.016 --> 0:41:05.096
It's a very specific word

0:41:05.135 --> 0:41:06.135
about a very specific thing

0:41:06.396 --> 0:41:07.257
that we've all known about

0:41:07.297 --> 0:41:09.597
for years and we have utter disgust for.

0:41:10.057 --> 0:41:11.277
And to use that word in

0:41:11.318 --> 0:41:12.117
relation to somebody who's

0:41:12.217 --> 0:41:13.818
sceptical about the hockey stick,

0:41:14.278 --> 0:41:15.418
it's disgusting, by the way.

0:41:15.798 --> 0:41:16.780
And equally, by the way,

0:41:16.820 --> 0:41:18.000
I have a such clear memory.

0:41:18.059 --> 0:41:19.000
Some of your listeners will

0:41:19.019 --> 0:41:20.061
remember we created a

0:41:20.101 --> 0:41:20.900
documentary a number of

0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:21.860
years ago called Not Evil,

0:41:21.880 --> 0:41:23.121
Just Wrong about this whole issue,

0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:24.961
about this whole global warming madness.

0:41:25.481 --> 0:41:28.025
And we interviewed the great

0:41:28.385 --> 0:41:29.306
Dr. Richard Lindzen,

0:41:29.485 --> 0:41:30.447
chair of atmospheric

0:41:30.487 --> 0:41:32.248
sciences at MIT at the time.

0:41:32.909 --> 0:41:33.909
I know he's retired now,

0:41:33.969 --> 0:41:34.951
but a brilliant person.

0:41:35.490 --> 0:41:38.534
And this is where my sensitivity started,

0:41:38.614 --> 0:41:39.414
because he said,

0:41:39.434 --> 0:41:42.396
he had literally just read at that time,

0:41:42.416 --> 0:41:43.617
this is, I don't know, a decade ago,

0:41:43.677 --> 0:41:44.559
he had literally read in

0:41:44.599 --> 0:41:45.519
The Economist magazine,

0:41:45.931 --> 0:41:48.733
himself be described as a denier.

0:41:49.213 --> 0:41:49.914
And he's, you know,

0:41:50.094 --> 0:41:50.974
you guys probably know

0:41:51.135 --> 0:41:52.215
Richard Linsing quite well,

0:41:52.315 --> 0:41:53.255
very mild mannered,

0:41:53.396 --> 0:41:54.657
very correct gentleman.

0:41:55.056 --> 0:41:56.277
And he said, you know,

0:41:56.297 --> 0:41:58.139
that he was quite shook up

0:41:58.159 --> 0:42:00.940
by it because so many of

0:42:00.981 --> 0:42:02.641
his own family had perished

0:42:02.822 --> 0:42:03.402
in the Holocaust.

0:42:04.389 --> 0:42:05.451
And for him to be called

0:42:05.490 --> 0:42:06.972
that and to have that word

0:42:07.152 --> 0:42:07.811
used against him.

0:42:08.472 --> 0:42:09.793
I mean, it's really horrific, you know,

0:42:09.853 --> 0:42:11.474
and this is this is the tenor.

0:42:11.713 --> 0:42:14.235
This is the tenor of this conversation.

0:42:14.896 --> 0:42:16.496
And there's something really

0:42:16.597 --> 0:42:18.538
quite disgusting about that.

0:42:18.577 --> 0:42:19.798
There's something disturbing

0:42:19.858 --> 0:42:21.519
about that when you can't

0:42:21.659 --> 0:42:22.860
speak civilly to people

0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:23.900
about something that has

0:42:24.481 --> 0:42:26.922
couldn't have more import for the world.

0:42:27.023 --> 0:42:29.724
As I said, people froze to death in Texas.

0:42:30.405 --> 0:42:31.907
because of that hockey stick.

0:42:31.927 --> 0:42:32.427
I mean,

0:42:32.447 --> 0:42:33.688
literally because of that hockey stick,

0:42:33.748 --> 0:42:34.449
one of them a child.

0:42:35.769 --> 0:42:37.050
This couldn't be more important.

0:42:37.090 --> 0:42:38.413
So we're allowed to talk about it.

0:42:38.472 --> 0:42:39.474
We're meant to talk about it.

0:42:40.074 --> 0:42:42.215
As you said there very correctly, Sterling,

0:42:42.556 --> 0:42:44.958
we have free speech in this country.

0:42:45.626 --> 0:42:47.806
And this idea that somebody

0:42:47.847 --> 0:42:49.487
like Michael Mann can come

0:42:49.527 --> 0:42:51.188
along and lawfare us into

0:42:51.289 --> 0:42:53.989
quiet and lawfare us into

0:42:54.010 --> 0:42:55.050
being quiet and worrying

0:42:55.070 --> 0:42:56.110
that we're going to lose our house.

0:42:56.771 --> 0:42:57.871
This is not a good thing.

0:42:58.192 --> 0:43:01.193
And this case needs to end

0:43:01.293 --> 0:43:03.293
this and to let these guys

0:43:03.373 --> 0:43:05.155
know you have to take it.

0:43:05.878 --> 0:43:07.501
You have to take it when people say,

0:43:07.521 --> 0:43:08.983
I'm questioning this.

0:43:09.463 --> 0:43:10.545
In the strongest terms,

0:43:10.585 --> 0:43:11.327
I'm questioning this.

0:43:11.407 --> 0:43:12.547
This looks wrong to me.

0:43:13.789 --> 0:43:15.072
And the reason, by the way,

0:43:15.132 --> 0:43:16.793
that Rand Simberg and Mark

0:43:16.813 --> 0:43:18.456
Stein were so critical was

0:43:18.516 --> 0:43:21.099
based on their reading of people like

0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:25.380
Dr. Wyman and others, Nobel Prize winning,

0:43:25.541 --> 0:43:27.021
actual Nobel Prize winning

0:43:27.061 --> 0:43:28.601
scientists who criticized

0:43:28.621 --> 0:43:29.262
the hockey stick.

0:43:29.822 --> 0:43:30.782
And that Nobel Prize,

0:43:30.822 --> 0:43:32.123
I presume Phelan dealt with

0:43:32.143 --> 0:43:32.742
that last week.

0:43:32.802 --> 0:43:33.182
But again,

0:43:33.202 --> 0:43:35.603
the stolen valor involved with that.

0:43:35.643 --> 0:43:38.043
You know, Marie Curie won the Nobel Prize.

0:43:38.304 --> 0:43:39.985
Michael Mann, you did not.

0:43:40.692 --> 0:43:40.931
Yes.

0:43:41.271 --> 0:43:44.652
And, you know, and so, yeah,

0:43:44.833 --> 0:43:46.153
it's it's 43 minutes since

0:43:46.173 --> 0:43:46.974
we started and I think you

0:43:46.994 --> 0:43:47.693
may have to go soon.

0:43:47.713 --> 0:43:48.954
So see how quickly you could

0:43:48.974 --> 0:43:49.894
do this before you have to go.

0:43:50.054 --> 0:43:52.755
So so so after the plaintiff, Michael Mann,

0:43:52.795 --> 0:43:53.536
arrested his case,

0:43:53.956 --> 0:43:54.795
the defense moved to have

0:43:54.815 --> 0:43:55.657
the case dismissed.

0:43:55.717 --> 0:43:56.637
They were arguing that Mann

0:43:56.677 --> 0:43:58.197
had not proved his case,

0:43:58.237 --> 0:44:00.038
that he suffered defamation or damages,

0:44:00.177 --> 0:44:00.518
injury.

0:44:01.038 --> 0:44:01.998
And the judge did not rule

0:44:02.018 --> 0:44:03.318
in favor of the of the defense.

0:44:03.438 --> 0:44:04.498
Can you walk us through

0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:06.760
those arguments and why the

0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:08.201
judge declined to just bang

0:44:08.221 --> 0:44:09.601
the gavel and throw everybody out?

0:44:10.396 --> 0:44:11.976
Well, it's quite a formal process.

0:44:12.016 --> 0:44:13.016
So what you have to do is, I mean,

0:44:13.036 --> 0:44:14.217
they did argue a little bit

0:44:14.237 --> 0:44:15.177
in court and came up with

0:44:15.197 --> 0:44:16.498
some of the stuff, which is, you know,

0:44:16.617 --> 0:44:17.978
and it's very simple in a sense.

0:44:18.378 --> 0:44:19.699
They have not proved their case.

0:44:19.998 --> 0:44:21.360
They have not proved damages.

0:44:22.340 --> 0:44:22.780
They haven't.

0:44:23.059 --> 0:44:23.780
They have been they

0:44:23.860 --> 0:44:25.081
literally have been unable to do that.

0:44:25.501 --> 0:44:25.760
You know,

0:44:26.001 --> 0:44:27.141
somebody looked strangely at me

0:44:27.161 --> 0:44:27.661
in a Wegmans.

0:44:27.802 --> 0:44:28.702
Oh, shut up.

0:44:29.101 --> 0:44:30.822
You know, already get over yourself.

0:44:32.175 --> 0:44:34.257
But so the judge has

0:44:34.338 --> 0:44:36.521
received submissions from

0:44:36.621 --> 0:44:38.623
the Simberg side and from Mark Stein side,

0:44:38.704 --> 0:44:40.284
quite lengthy submissions

0:44:40.766 --> 0:44:42.967
detailing the reasons why

0:44:43.007 --> 0:44:43.909
this case should be dismissed.

0:44:44.309 --> 0:44:46.813
They are being considered as we speak.

0:44:47.273 --> 0:44:47.893
And in fact,

0:44:48.373 --> 0:44:51.375
the plaintiffs are also

0:44:51.514 --> 0:44:52.795
allowed to speak into that

0:44:52.835 --> 0:44:54.056
and say why it shouldn't be dismissed.

0:44:54.436 --> 0:44:57.717
And they were allowed till noon Eastern,

0:44:57.898 --> 0:44:59.418
so just a couple of hours ago,

0:44:59.757 --> 0:45:01.518
noon Eastern today to

0:45:01.599 --> 0:45:03.380
submit their rejoinder.

0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:06.001
And then the judge will decide.

0:45:06.021 --> 0:45:07.021
And funny enough,

0:45:07.041 --> 0:45:08.581
somebody asked me that very question,

0:45:08.601 --> 0:45:09.262
the question that you're

0:45:09.282 --> 0:45:10.063
kind of asking now.

0:45:10.483 --> 0:45:11.422
I believe what will have to

0:45:11.463 --> 0:45:12.344
happen is that we will go

0:45:12.384 --> 0:45:13.463
back into court on Monday

0:45:13.503 --> 0:45:14.844
morning and the judge will

0:45:14.925 --> 0:45:17.945
say what he decided after

0:45:17.985 --> 0:45:19.027
considering these documents.

0:45:19.126 --> 0:45:20.246
I don't believe we're going

0:45:20.266 --> 0:45:22.467
to get a phone call today

0:45:22.507 --> 0:45:24.148
or over the weekend saying it's all over.

0:45:24.289 --> 0:45:25.208
I think we're going back to

0:45:25.248 --> 0:45:25.849
court on Monday.

0:45:26.289 --> 0:45:27.130
I would be inclined to think

0:45:27.150 --> 0:45:27.690
that the judge will

0:45:27.730 --> 0:45:28.670
continue at this stage.

0:45:29.291 --> 0:45:30.572
But I but I do think they

0:45:30.592 --> 0:45:33.074
have a very strong case for dismissing,

0:45:33.135 --> 0:45:35.255
including in that the case

0:45:35.275 --> 0:45:36.197
for dismissal is the fact

0:45:36.237 --> 0:45:37.759
that the plaintiffs had

0:45:38.358 --> 0:45:40.880
shown erroneous information in a very,

0:45:40.920 --> 0:45:42.302
very prejudicial way to the jury.

0:45:43.182 --> 0:45:44.224
And it's certainly if this

0:45:44.264 --> 0:45:46.746
thing goes on and if there was any and if,

0:45:47.025 --> 0:45:48.768
for example, if they if the defense,

0:45:48.847 --> 0:45:49.489
if they lost.

0:45:50.668 --> 0:45:53.889
It certainly grounds for a

0:45:53.969 --> 0:45:55.170
retrial or a mistrial,

0:45:56.150 --> 0:45:58.291
what happened inside the court.

0:45:59.210 --> 0:45:59.831
So it's interesting.

0:46:00.911 --> 0:46:02.072
Who knows?

0:46:02.152 --> 0:46:02.911
And don't forget,

0:46:03.012 --> 0:46:05.333
and your viewers will very

0:46:05.353 --> 0:46:06.532
much appreciate my next comment,

0:46:06.952 --> 0:46:08.554
we are in Washington, D.C.

0:46:08.614 --> 0:46:10.233
This is a Washington, D.C.

0:46:10.253 --> 0:46:10.554
jury,

0:46:10.893 --> 0:46:12.054
which is almost in itself

0:46:12.594 --> 0:46:13.855
extraordinarily unfair.

0:46:14.614 --> 0:46:15.594
It shouldn't be here at all.

0:46:15.675 --> 0:46:16.536
It wouldn't be here at all

0:46:16.556 --> 0:46:18.335
if it wasn't for CEI and National Review,

0:46:18.416 --> 0:46:19.797
neither of whom are now in

0:46:19.836 --> 0:46:20.556
this case at all.

0:46:20.956 --> 0:46:21.597
It shouldn't be here.

0:46:21.797 --> 0:46:25.117
It should be in a much more neutral venue.

0:46:25.418 --> 0:46:28.639
But I still believe in the jury system.

0:46:29.340 --> 0:46:31.599
I covered a case recently,

0:46:31.619 --> 0:46:33.041
the Kevin Spacey case,

0:46:33.440 --> 0:46:34.740
which I imagine many of

0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:35.581
your listeners would

0:46:35.601 --> 0:46:36.742
probably think Kevin Spacey

0:46:36.782 --> 0:46:38.181
is a dreadful person and

0:46:38.362 --> 0:46:39.322
was guilty and whatever.

0:46:39.382 --> 0:46:39.563
Well,

0:46:39.603 --> 0:46:42.103
he has been exonerated in every last

0:46:42.422 --> 0:46:43.704
court he's been in.

0:46:44.884 --> 0:46:46.244
because the guy who took the

0:46:46.304 --> 0:46:47.465
action against him lied.

0:46:47.945 --> 0:46:49.865
And the jury in New York,

0:46:49.905 --> 0:46:51.547
where I thought Kevin

0:46:51.586 --> 0:46:52.847
Spacey didn't have hope,

0:46:53.487 --> 0:46:54.367
made their decision within

0:46:54.387 --> 0:46:54.927
a half an hour.

0:46:55.068 --> 0:46:56.528
So there's always hope.

0:46:56.688 --> 0:46:57.309
There's always hope.

0:46:57.728 --> 0:46:58.469
And the jury system,

0:46:58.489 --> 0:46:59.949
we have to believe in it.

0:47:00.570 --> 0:47:01.670
And I do believe that they

0:47:01.690 --> 0:47:02.411
were very impressed,

0:47:02.471 --> 0:47:04.572
particularly by Dr. Weiner.

0:47:04.791 --> 0:47:05.871
And I hope to get to hear

0:47:05.931 --> 0:47:08.072
from Dr. Curry on Monday.

0:47:08.463 --> 0:47:09.045
Yeah, well,

0:47:09.125 --> 0:47:11.065
so a quick question for you before you go,

0:47:11.086 --> 0:47:12.588
because you might know this and we don't.

0:47:13.148 --> 0:47:14.248
A question from Phil Rader.

0:47:14.389 --> 0:47:15.451
Do we know if Dr. Ross

0:47:15.471 --> 0:47:16.931
McKittrick is going to testify?

0:47:16.972 --> 0:47:18.293
He did a statistical

0:47:18.353 --> 0:47:19.974
analysis of the hockey stick as well.

0:47:20.014 --> 0:47:21.255
Do you know if he's going to

0:47:21.275 --> 0:47:23.338
be on the witness list for Mark Stein?

0:47:24.159 --> 0:47:25.019
Yes, absolutely.

0:47:25.059 --> 0:47:26.240
Thanks, Phil, for that question.

0:47:26.260 --> 0:47:27.342
I'm actually really glad you

0:47:27.382 --> 0:47:27.822
wrote that in.

0:47:28.202 --> 0:47:28.302
So

0:47:29.103 --> 0:47:30.425
We have on the list of

0:47:30.485 --> 0:47:31.606
people who have yet to

0:47:31.666 --> 0:47:32.967
appear and should appear if

0:47:33.027 --> 0:47:34.028
this thing isn't dismissed

0:47:34.570 --> 0:47:37.253
are Ross McKittrick and McIntyre.

0:47:38.534 --> 0:47:39.135
Ross McKittrick,

0:47:39.235 --> 0:47:40.856
McIntyre and McKittrick and

0:47:41.597 --> 0:47:44.201
Judith Curry and Dr. Richard Lindzen.

0:47:44.280 --> 0:47:45.362
Those are the ones that are on the list.

0:47:45.862 --> 0:47:47.224
but as I said the judge has

0:47:47.244 --> 0:47:48.266
been you know came out

0:47:48.346 --> 0:47:49.427
quite strongly and was

0:47:49.447 --> 0:47:52.389
quite kind of uh more firm

0:47:52.429 --> 0:47:53.291
than he's been before

0:47:53.391 --> 0:47:54.891
saying we're finishing this

0:47:55.052 --> 0:47:56.173
on wednesday one way or the

0:47:56.213 --> 0:47:57.315
other and I don't know how

0:47:57.375 --> 0:47:59.297
we do that with all those

0:47:59.317 --> 0:48:01.179
um witnesses who haven't uh

0:48:01.259 --> 0:48:02.619
appeared yet and you know

0:48:02.639 --> 0:48:03.300
you have to think that they

0:48:03.340 --> 0:48:04.121
have to give their evidence

0:48:04.802 --> 0:48:07.202
to Rand Simberg's lawyers

0:48:07.302 --> 0:48:08.742
and to Mark Stein himself

0:48:09.184 --> 0:48:10.384
and then be cross-examined.

0:48:11.103 --> 0:48:12.005
And I would really like all

0:48:12.025 --> 0:48:13.344
of them to be heard because

0:48:13.405 --> 0:48:14.485
McKittrick and McIntyre,

0:48:14.684 --> 0:48:16.326
as you said very correctly, Phil,

0:48:16.746 --> 0:48:17.826
they did the criticism

0:48:18.086 --> 0:48:20.246
which appeared in the peer-reviewed,

0:48:20.266 --> 0:48:21.487
the same peer-reviewed

0:48:21.628 --> 0:48:23.487
journal where the hockey

0:48:23.507 --> 0:48:24.489
stick originally appeared.

0:48:24.509 --> 0:48:26.708
I honestly don't understand

0:48:26.750 --> 0:48:27.610
how the judge can set a

0:48:27.650 --> 0:48:28.590
timeline on a trial.

0:48:28.929 --> 0:48:29.150
I know.

0:48:29.510 --> 0:48:31.170
You have your plaintiffs,

0:48:31.570 --> 0:48:32.471
they have their witnesses,

0:48:32.490 --> 0:48:33.391
and you have your defense.

0:48:33.492 --> 0:48:33.831
There's no...

0:48:37.309 --> 0:48:38.931
Well, it's also it's also sterling.

0:48:38.971 --> 0:48:40.351
It's also very unfair

0:48:40.773 --> 0:48:44.876
because the the defense, the plaintiffs,

0:48:44.896 --> 0:48:45.376
I should say,

0:48:45.675 --> 0:48:46.856
the plaintiffs didn't rest

0:48:47.418 --> 0:48:49.818
until yesterday or whatever it was like.

0:48:49.920 --> 0:48:50.679
So, you know,

0:48:50.940 --> 0:48:52.041
so they went they went over

0:48:52.101 --> 0:48:53.141
like three days over what

0:48:53.161 --> 0:48:53.681
they should have done.

0:48:53.742 --> 0:48:54.643
So, you know,

0:48:54.762 --> 0:48:56.485
it's very unfair that the

0:48:56.585 --> 0:48:58.985
defense have now got such a

0:48:59.025 --> 0:49:00.327
limited time to present

0:49:00.728 --> 0:49:02.088
powerful witnesses that they have.

0:49:03.326 --> 0:49:04.005
I think that would be

0:49:04.045 --> 0:49:05.867
grounds for appeals if

0:49:05.907 --> 0:49:07.088
they're not able to present

0:49:07.128 --> 0:49:08.028
their case in full.

0:49:08.429 --> 0:49:09.130
Yeah.

0:49:09.351 --> 0:49:10.291
I think he's not going to

0:49:10.311 --> 0:49:11.271
move on Wednesday, by the way.

0:49:11.552 --> 0:49:12.652
It's going to end on Wednesday.

0:49:12.672 --> 0:49:15.856
And can I just say on my own behalf,

0:49:16.275 --> 0:49:18.677
I have two cats in Los

0:49:18.757 --> 0:49:20.360
Angeles waiting for me who

0:49:20.460 --> 0:49:21.701
do have somebody taking care of them,

0:49:21.800 --> 0:49:24.282
but they'll be very upset

0:49:24.322 --> 0:49:25.403
if I don't return on Friday.

0:49:29.347 --> 0:49:31.369
That's my plan, but we'll keep you posted,

0:49:31.389 --> 0:49:31.568
guys.

0:49:32.244 --> 0:49:34.327
Okay, well, we'll let you go, Anne.

0:49:34.347 --> 0:49:35.208
I know that you have another

0:49:35.248 --> 0:49:36.110
interview coming up.

0:49:36.411 --> 0:49:36.811
Please,

0:49:36.992 --> 0:49:38.835
I urge all of our viewers and

0:49:38.875 --> 0:49:42.059
listeners to support the great work,

0:49:43.061 --> 0:49:43.862
the heroic work

0:49:44.634 --> 0:49:45.894
of Philem McAleer and Anne

0:49:45.914 --> 0:49:47.315
McElhenney at the

0:49:47.436 --> 0:49:48.836
Unreported Stories Society.

0:49:48.896 --> 0:49:50.257
It is a 501c3,

0:49:50.338 --> 0:49:51.418
just like the Heartland Institute.

0:49:51.458 --> 0:49:52.739
They need your support.

0:49:53.280 --> 0:49:55.842
So if you actually value

0:49:56.202 --> 0:49:57.523
real journalism that

0:49:57.603 --> 0:49:59.344
challenges those in power,

0:49:59.646 --> 0:50:01.067
you must support that organization.

0:50:01.126 --> 0:50:02.487
And please subscribe and

0:50:02.527 --> 0:50:05.010
leave reviews for the

0:50:05.070 --> 0:50:06.010
Climate Change on Trial

0:50:06.030 --> 0:50:08.391
podcast because when Philem

0:50:08.411 --> 0:50:09.333
was on last weekend,

0:50:09.393 --> 0:50:10.454
he said it was at that time

0:50:10.474 --> 0:50:11.355
the number six podcast

0:50:12.014 --> 0:50:14.637
science podcast in the world.

0:50:15.016 --> 0:50:15.577
Where are you now?

0:50:15.597 --> 0:50:16.057
Do you remember?

0:50:16.297 --> 0:50:17.039
I looked this morning,

0:50:17.059 --> 0:50:17.938
we were number seven.

0:50:18.099 --> 0:50:19.300
We would love to be number

0:50:19.420 --> 0:50:21.021
one by the end of the week, but you know,

0:50:21.081 --> 0:50:22.543
by the end of, by the end of the trial,

0:50:22.782 --> 0:50:23.443
but it's still,

0:50:23.682 --> 0:50:24.684
it's extraordinary because

0:50:24.724 --> 0:50:26.085
we're ahead of like the, you know,

0:50:26.405 --> 0:50:27.846
National Geographic and NPR

0:50:27.865 --> 0:50:29.067
and these people with

0:50:29.126 --> 0:50:30.188
obviously massive teams.

0:50:30.248 --> 0:50:30.929
So we're a tight,

0:50:31.228 --> 0:50:32.369
little tight organization.

0:50:32.409 --> 0:50:33.550
So we're very proud of

0:50:33.590 --> 0:50:34.291
what's been achieved.

0:50:34.809 --> 0:50:35.090
Yeah, well,

0:50:35.110 --> 0:50:36.012
we're very proud to have you on

0:50:36.032 --> 0:50:36.572
the podcast,

0:50:36.693 --> 0:50:37.914
and I hope we can have you on

0:50:37.954 --> 0:50:39.275
again after the trial.

0:50:39.655 --> 0:50:41.659
You and Phelan together would be fantastic,

0:50:41.719 --> 0:50:43.320
but we'll see if we can work that out.

0:50:43.340 --> 0:50:44.762
Thanks so much for being on with us today,

0:50:44.782 --> 0:50:45.824
and we'll see you,

0:50:45.905 --> 0:50:46.766
and we'll keep an eye on

0:50:46.806 --> 0:50:47.706
you and the trial.

0:50:48.067 --> 0:50:48.748
Thank you so much.

0:50:48.788 --> 0:50:49.548
I really appreciate it.

0:50:49.869 --> 0:50:50.150
God bless.

0:50:50.190 --> 0:50:50.431
All right.

0:50:51.771 --> 0:50:52.371
Guys, also,

0:50:52.431 --> 0:50:54.853
if you want to support Mark Stein,

0:50:54.914 --> 0:50:57.315
he's selling like a hockey stick,

0:50:58.036 --> 0:51:00.117
a Liberty stick on his website,

0:51:01.097 --> 0:51:03.400
which I think is steinonline.com.

0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:04.920
And he has a shop there.

0:51:06.422 --> 0:51:08.083
So he can probably use all

0:51:08.103 --> 0:51:09.364
the help that he can get as well.

0:51:10.403 --> 0:51:10.585
Yep.

0:51:11.925 --> 0:51:12.485
For sure.

0:51:12.786 --> 0:51:13.025
All right.

0:51:13.045 --> 0:51:14.407
Well, let's pull up that super chat.

0:51:14.806 --> 0:51:15.487
Let's do that.

0:51:16.342 --> 0:51:17.864
Thank you very much, Dean.

0:51:19.264 --> 0:51:19.983
As always, Dean,

0:51:20.005 --> 0:51:21.684
we appreciate it when you

0:51:21.724 --> 0:51:22.865
guys support us as well.

0:51:22.945 --> 0:51:24.126
So thank you very much.

0:51:24.806 --> 0:51:25.806
We're doing our best.

0:51:25.987 --> 0:51:28.108
So I'm glad that people are

0:51:28.148 --> 0:51:29.347
enjoying the show so much.

0:51:31.068 --> 0:51:32.208
Yes, me as well.

0:51:33.630 --> 0:51:35.411
Before we go to questions or crazy climate,

0:51:35.431 --> 0:51:35.990
I don't know if we're going

0:51:36.010 --> 0:51:36.471
to get to that,

0:51:36.650 --> 0:51:38.072
but I'd like to just follow

0:51:38.112 --> 0:51:39.371
up on one thing that she brought up,

0:51:39.913 --> 0:51:40.893
the whole denier thing.

0:51:41.952 --> 0:51:42.773
So I've been doing this

0:51:44.248 --> 0:51:45.590
as much as I hate to admit it,

0:51:45.590 --> 0:51:47.630
25 years now on climate, off and on.

0:51:48.512 --> 0:51:50.472
And I have been, of course,

0:51:50.673 --> 0:51:51.494
called a denier,

0:51:51.914 --> 0:51:53.375
as have everyone at Heartland,

0:51:53.434 --> 0:51:55.896
but me before at NCPA even.

0:51:58.179 --> 0:52:01.860
And I've been compared to Nazis.

0:52:03.762 --> 0:52:06.244
And the problem with the

0:52:06.264 --> 0:52:09.065
denier opprobrium is not

0:52:09.106 --> 0:52:10.166
just that I don't deny that

0:52:10.186 --> 0:52:10.927
climate changes.

0:52:13.039 --> 0:52:16.360
The whole comparison is just awful,

0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:18.039
not because the Nazis were

0:52:18.159 --> 0:52:19.960
evil and the Holocaust was evil.

0:52:20.101 --> 0:52:22.181
It was, but because it's a fact.

0:52:23.181 --> 0:52:24.942
It is a known fact.

0:52:25.181 --> 0:52:26.121
We have bodies.

0:52:26.561 --> 0:52:27.942
We have photographic evidence.

0:52:28.202 --> 0:52:29.922
We have eyewitness testimony.

0:52:30.722 --> 0:52:32.623
It's not a matter of

0:52:34.684 --> 0:52:37.143
supposition or computer models saying,

0:52:37.224 --> 0:52:37.643
well,

0:52:37.884 --> 0:52:38.985
statistics show the Jewish

0:52:39.005 --> 0:52:40.005
population went down.

0:52:40.025 --> 0:52:40.065
No.

0:52:40.525 --> 0:52:40.644
No.

0:52:43.317 --> 0:52:44.976
as opposed to the whole

0:52:45.237 --> 0:52:46.677
theory of climate change,

0:52:47.559 --> 0:52:48.659
which is not a fact.

0:52:48.798 --> 0:52:50.119
It's not supported by data.

0:52:50.739 --> 0:52:51.960
It's not supported by evidence.

0:52:52.280 --> 0:52:53.440
It's driven by computer

0:52:53.481 --> 0:52:54.902
models and statistical

0:52:55.322 --> 0:52:56.943
manipulation like man's.

0:52:58.204 --> 0:52:59.083
That's not fact.

0:52:59.443 --> 0:53:00.664
That's not even science.

0:53:01.445 --> 0:53:03.186
Those are tools used in science.

0:53:03.525 --> 0:53:05.126
So it's just a totally

0:53:05.847 --> 0:53:06.807
inappropriate comparison.

0:53:10.182 --> 0:53:10.402
Right.

0:53:10.722 --> 0:53:12.063
And the most notable thing

0:53:12.103 --> 0:53:13.125
to me about this trial,

0:53:13.164 --> 0:53:14.865
other than it going on at all,

0:53:15.385 --> 0:53:17.806
is as Anne remarked at the

0:53:17.847 --> 0:53:18.768
beginning of the show,

0:53:19.407 --> 0:53:20.949
there is such a huge

0:53:21.329 --> 0:53:22.849
difference between the

0:53:22.989 --> 0:53:24.170
persona that Mann is

0:53:24.210 --> 0:53:25.592
putting on for this trial

0:53:26.231 --> 0:53:28.512
and his content and what

0:53:28.552 --> 0:53:30.114
you can go and look at on

0:53:30.153 --> 0:53:30.974
his Twitter account.

0:53:31.375 --> 0:53:33.556
And also the way he talks on,

0:53:33.755 --> 0:53:35.077
he goes on the news all the time.

0:53:35.376 --> 0:53:36.777
I think CNN has him on.

0:53:37.538 --> 0:53:38.838
Relatively frequently.

0:53:39.579 --> 0:53:42.661
And he is just contemptible on there.

0:53:42.681 --> 0:53:45.963
It's man on trial versus man in real life.

0:53:46.844 --> 0:53:47.405
Yeah.

0:53:47.766 --> 0:53:49.106
Him trying to play the like...

0:53:50.003 --> 0:53:50.704
Nice guy who,

0:53:50.764 --> 0:53:51.664
I don't know how I get in

0:53:51.684 --> 0:53:52.724
these situations.

0:53:52.764 --> 0:53:53.726
This is so weird.

0:53:53.806 --> 0:53:54.626
Why would they say these

0:53:54.666 --> 0:53:55.586
mean things about me?

0:53:55.746 --> 0:53:56.527
Yeah, all right.

0:53:56.967 --> 0:53:58.510
Yeah, it's infuriating.

0:53:58.550 --> 0:53:59.130
I know a lot of our

0:53:59.170 --> 0:54:00.771
listeners and viewers of

0:54:00.811 --> 0:54:02.512
this show have been following it,

0:54:02.592 --> 0:54:05.135
maybe not following it as much as I have.

0:54:05.195 --> 0:54:06.496
I'm almost trying to listen

0:54:06.516 --> 0:54:07.637
to every single minute.

0:54:08.297 --> 0:54:09.077
But I think one of the

0:54:09.117 --> 0:54:10.878
really and I was actually kind of shocked,

0:54:11.239 --> 0:54:11.920
maybe not shocked,

0:54:12.420 --> 0:54:13.601
but that the judge didn't

0:54:13.641 --> 0:54:14.621
just dismiss the case.

0:54:14.762 --> 0:54:14.983
I mean,

0:54:15.262 --> 0:54:17.224
the burden here is on Michael Mann.

0:54:17.344 --> 0:54:19.867
He has to prove that not

0:54:19.907 --> 0:54:21.467
just him being attacked in

0:54:21.568 --> 0:54:23.849
general by climate deniers.

0:54:24.650 --> 0:54:24.811
No,

0:54:25.150 --> 0:54:27.072
he has to prove that that blog post

0:54:27.432 --> 0:54:29.373
seen by about 17000 people.

0:54:29.414 --> 0:54:30.275
I think that was it was

0:54:30.315 --> 0:54:31.096
entered into evidence

0:54:31.115 --> 0:54:31.976
because you can track that.

0:54:32.777 --> 0:54:34.657
is what cost him all these grants,

0:54:34.878 --> 0:54:35.858
and it cost him,

0:54:35.938 --> 0:54:37.099
it harmed his personal and

0:54:37.139 --> 0:54:39.259
professional reputation, and that,

0:54:39.418 --> 0:54:39.639
you know,

0:54:39.679 --> 0:54:40.920
nobody would associate with him

0:54:40.980 --> 0:54:41.820
anymore because of this.

0:54:42.280 --> 0:54:42.721
And of course,

0:54:43.820 --> 0:54:45.061
Mark Stein in Rensenberg's

0:54:45.081 --> 0:54:46.262
side brings up photos of

0:54:46.322 --> 0:54:47.601
him from his own website,

0:54:48.141 --> 0:54:49.483
of him with his bromance

0:54:49.543 --> 0:54:51.224
with Leonardo DiCaprio.

0:54:51.543 --> 0:54:52.643
And here he is on stage

0:54:52.684 --> 0:54:53.925
introducing Bill Clinton

0:54:54.324 --> 0:54:55.724
and Terry McAuliffe at a

0:54:55.784 --> 0:54:57.545
Democratic political event in Virginia.

0:54:58.166 --> 0:54:59.367
And here's Michael Mann in a

0:54:59.666 --> 0:55:01.327
documentary on climate change.

0:55:01.367 --> 0:55:02.228
And here's Michael Mann at

0:55:02.248 --> 0:55:03.047
the premiere of that

0:55:03.088 --> 0:55:04.128
documentary on climate

0:55:04.148 --> 0:55:06.190
change at some wonderful place.

0:55:06.250 --> 0:55:07.670
And I'm sure he got a nice gift bag.

0:55:08.070 --> 0:55:09.891
So it seems obvious to

0:55:10.012 --> 0:55:11.893
anybody with eyes and ears

0:55:12.072 --> 0:55:13.873
that this case is a joke.

0:55:14.153 --> 0:55:15.414
It's a complete joke.

0:55:15.855 --> 0:55:17.715
There is no way that he has

0:55:18.096 --> 0:55:19.275
even remotely approached

0:55:19.335 --> 0:55:20.697
the burden that is put upon

0:55:20.916 --> 0:55:22.538
him as the plaintiff.

0:55:22.577 --> 0:55:24.338
It is not Michael Markstein

0:55:24.639 --> 0:55:26.440
and Ranzenberg's job to prove anything.

0:55:27.019 --> 0:55:28.601
It is only it is his burden.

0:55:29.282 --> 0:55:30.043
It's a civil case,

0:55:30.083 --> 0:55:31.105
but he's the prosecution

0:55:31.125 --> 0:55:32.186
and it is not even close.

0:55:33.586 --> 0:55:36.090
And it's not just that his

0:55:36.751 --> 0:55:38.893
personal reputation hasn't

0:55:38.952 --> 0:55:40.074
suffered with sort of big

0:55:40.114 --> 0:55:42.257
wigs and and celebrities.

0:55:42.936 --> 0:55:44.458
You know, he had to go through.

0:55:44.478 --> 0:55:45.019
Oh, well,

0:55:45.079 --> 0:55:46.501
how many journal articles have

0:55:46.541 --> 0:55:47.581
you published since then?

0:55:47.762 --> 0:55:48.684
Well, yeah, a lot.

0:55:49.697 --> 0:55:49.797
Uh,

0:55:50.117 --> 0:55:51.458
how many conferences were you at to

0:55:51.498 --> 0:55:52.739
speak at professional?

0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:54.179
His reputation hasn't

0:55:54.239 --> 0:55:55.541
suffered among his peers either.

0:55:55.860 --> 0:55:56.902
So where has his

0:55:56.961 --> 0:55:58.603
professional reputation suffered?

0:55:59.123 --> 0:56:00.023
His reputation among the

0:56:00.023 --> 0:56:01.563
17,000 people that read the post.

0:56:05.815 --> 0:56:06.576
You could argue that his

0:56:06.615 --> 0:56:08.217
reputation would go up because he's like,

0:56:08.237 --> 0:56:08.958
you know,

0:56:08.998 --> 0:56:10.960
public enemy number one among the deniers,

0:56:11.041 --> 0:56:11.260
right?

0:56:11.340 --> 0:56:12.362
So he's like the most

0:56:12.422 --> 0:56:13.483
prominent guy to go after

0:56:13.523 --> 0:56:14.043
that would actually

0:56:14.085 --> 0:56:15.126
increase your reputation.

0:56:15.385 --> 0:56:15.746
Frankly,

0:56:15.826 --> 0:56:16.947
we here at the Heartland Institute,

0:56:17.387 --> 0:56:18.489
we take pride in the fact

0:56:18.528 --> 0:56:19.871
that we are the number one

0:56:20.030 --> 0:56:21.393
global think tank when it

0:56:21.432 --> 0:56:22.534
comes to covering climate

0:56:22.773 --> 0:56:24.456
and research on climate and

0:56:24.476 --> 0:56:25.077
energy policy.

0:56:25.137 --> 0:56:26.577
We are attacked constantly.

0:56:27.179 --> 0:56:28.199
in ways that are much more

0:56:28.938 --> 0:56:30.119
defamatory and libelous

0:56:30.500 --> 0:56:32.380
than what Michael Mann is

0:56:32.480 --> 0:56:33.320
claiming in this case.

0:56:33.661 --> 0:56:35.240
But we wear it as a badge of pride,

0:56:35.501 --> 0:56:36.161
because as they say,

0:56:36.201 --> 0:56:37.902
if you're not taking flak,

0:56:37.922 --> 0:56:38.802
you're not over the target.

0:56:39.081 --> 0:56:40.443
And that's exactly what's happening here.

0:56:40.902 --> 0:56:41.742
About three years ago,

0:56:41.782 --> 0:56:43.043
there was a peer-reviewed

0:56:43.083 --> 0:56:44.623
journal article that published...

0:56:46.831 --> 0:56:48.192
that did the ratings,

0:56:48.231 --> 0:56:49.431
how many times different

0:56:49.853 --> 0:56:51.972
deniers were mentioned in, in,

0:56:52.592 --> 0:56:53.952
in articles and journals

0:56:54.052 --> 0:56:55.193
and newspaper reports.

0:56:55.534 --> 0:56:56.494
And I was offended that I

0:56:56.534 --> 0:56:57.494
was as low as I was.

0:56:59.293 --> 0:56:59.594
You know,

0:56:59.614 --> 0:57:02.175
I hope my ratings have gone up since then,

0:57:02.275 --> 0:57:04.534
but you know, I still, I made the list,

0:57:05.094 --> 0:57:06.876
but I was, I was lower than people.

0:57:06.916 --> 0:57:08.295
I thought that guy got

0:57:08.335 --> 0:57:09.175
mentioned more than me.

0:57:09.275 --> 0:57:10.275
That's not right.

0:57:11.056 --> 0:57:12.157
I write a lot more than him.

0:57:14.257 --> 0:57:14.436
Right.

0:57:15.048 --> 0:57:15.268
Well,

0:57:16.690 --> 0:57:18.211
I wish we could have had Anne on for

0:57:18.231 --> 0:57:18.811
the whole time.

0:57:19.251 --> 0:57:19.873
As she says,

0:57:19.952 --> 0:57:22.954
she is obsessively punctual

0:57:23.074 --> 0:57:24.556
and I did not want to make

0:57:24.577 --> 0:57:25.958
her late and have it be our

0:57:26.038 --> 0:57:27.478
fault for her next appointment.

0:57:28.920 --> 0:57:31.202
So I just want to go over a couple.

0:57:31.262 --> 0:57:31.842
We're not going to go over

0:57:31.882 --> 0:57:33.463
climate crazy news of the week.

0:57:33.543 --> 0:57:34.264
There's a lot.

0:57:34.443 --> 0:57:35.045
So we'll get to it.

0:57:35.065 --> 0:57:35.804
Maybe I'll have to dedicate

0:57:35.824 --> 0:57:37.146
an entire show to just that.

0:57:37.166 --> 0:57:37.786
That would be something.

0:57:38.166 --> 0:57:38.807
Because you certainly,

0:57:38.887 --> 0:57:39.889
we can fill an hour every

0:57:39.929 --> 0:57:40.949
week just talking about that.

0:57:41.048 --> 0:57:41.409
Believe me.

0:57:42.630 --> 0:57:43.630
So the...

0:57:45.170 --> 0:57:46.713
the Stein Simberg side,

0:57:46.753 --> 0:57:47.954
the defense got to start

0:57:48.014 --> 0:57:48.815
calling witnesses.

0:57:49.096 --> 0:57:50.438
And as we talked about earlier,

0:57:50.458 --> 0:57:52.400
the statistician,

0:57:53.481 --> 0:57:54.362
America's probably most

0:57:54.442 --> 0:57:57.085
prominent statistician was,

0:57:57.226 --> 0:57:58.226
was the first witness.

0:57:58.407 --> 0:58:00.849
And he was the one that looked at the,

0:58:01.873 --> 0:58:03.875
result of Michael Mann's

0:58:04.376 --> 0:58:06.036
data manipulation and found

0:58:06.077 --> 0:58:07.818
it wanting and wrote a very

0:58:07.858 --> 0:58:09.438
critical paper that was well known.

0:58:09.858 --> 0:58:12.460
And again, so now Stein has his witnesses.

0:58:12.501 --> 0:58:14.523
So after Abraham Weiner talked about that,

0:58:15.242 --> 0:58:15.864
Judith Curry,

0:58:16.771 --> 0:58:20.315
took the witness stand and she barely got,

0:58:21.297 --> 0:58:21.577
you know,

0:58:22.257 --> 0:58:23.398
I used to cover Congress and I

0:58:23.418 --> 0:58:24.099
used to joke, you know,

0:58:24.119 --> 0:58:25.240
Congress is one of the

0:58:25.260 --> 0:58:26.221
easiest jobs in the world

0:58:26.262 --> 0:58:27.543
because you don't work on Mondays,

0:58:27.643 --> 0:58:29.063
you work Tuesday through Thursday,

0:58:29.385 --> 0:58:30.686
and then you leave early

0:58:30.726 --> 0:58:32.387
Thursday afternoon and you

0:58:32.427 --> 0:58:33.188
never work Fridays.

0:58:33.768 --> 0:58:34.489
And apparently that's the

0:58:34.530 --> 0:58:35.809
way it works in the DC

0:58:36.431 --> 0:58:37.472
Superior Court as well,

0:58:37.512 --> 0:58:39.112
because they don't have court on Fridays.

0:58:39.693 --> 0:58:40.773
They do have it on Mondays.

0:58:40.853 --> 0:58:41.775
Apparently the jury,

0:58:41.914 --> 0:58:43.476
as Anne was annoyed by,

0:58:43.516 --> 0:58:44.297
can just come in whenever

0:58:44.336 --> 0:58:44.956
they feel like it.

0:58:45.297 --> 0:58:47.059
So when these guys are

0:58:47.079 --> 0:58:47.878
paying their attorneys a

0:58:47.918 --> 0:58:49.079
thousand or $2,000 an hour,

0:58:50.420 --> 0:58:50.601
Well,

0:58:50.641 --> 0:58:51.740
there goes a thousand bucks for the

0:58:51.780 --> 0:58:52.641
half an hour that we didn't

0:58:52.661 --> 0:58:53.942
start on time because they

0:58:53.961 --> 0:58:55.101
charge for that too when

0:58:55.121 --> 0:58:55.981
the jury doesn't come in.

0:58:56.342 --> 0:58:58.583
So this jury, by not being punctual,

0:58:58.663 --> 0:59:00.822
is costing everybody lots

0:59:00.862 --> 0:59:01.402
and lots of money.

0:59:01.443 --> 0:59:02.143
But putting that aside,

0:59:02.784 --> 0:59:03.804
Judy Curry didn't actually

0:59:03.864 --> 0:59:05.983
get to testify very much.

0:59:06.784 --> 0:59:08.244
I think it's actually going

0:59:08.264 --> 0:59:09.364
to be starting up on Monday

0:59:09.885 --> 0:59:10.585
and I think they'll really

0:59:10.625 --> 0:59:11.445
get rolling with her.

0:59:11.664 --> 0:59:12.606
And, you know,

0:59:13.226 --> 0:59:14.146
Judith Curry has been on

0:59:14.166 --> 0:59:17.005
this podcast on our show a

0:59:17.045 --> 0:59:17.686
couple of times.

0:59:18.266 --> 0:59:18.947
She has spoken.

0:59:20.056 --> 0:59:21.197
at our climate conferences.

0:59:21.717 --> 0:59:23.059
So has Ross McKittrick.

0:59:23.380 --> 0:59:24.800
So has Richard Lindzen.

0:59:25.240 --> 0:59:26.681
So has Stephen McIntyre.

0:59:27.121 --> 0:59:28.143
So, you know, this is,

0:59:28.242 --> 0:59:29.244
we know all these names

0:59:29.344 --> 0:59:31.144
because we work with them quite often.

0:59:31.626 --> 0:59:32.907
So next week is really what

0:59:32.927 --> 0:59:33.927
I was looking forward to,

0:59:34.007 --> 0:59:35.608
the defense witnesses.

0:59:36.449 --> 0:59:39.152
And they are going to go after Mark Stein,

0:59:39.311 --> 0:59:39.911
or they're going to go

0:59:39.972 --> 0:59:41.873
after Michael Mann and his hockey stick.

0:59:42.914 --> 0:59:43.815
And so no matter what the

0:59:43.855 --> 0:59:45.615
result of this trial, guys, I think

0:59:46.556 --> 0:59:49.177
its usefulness for posterity

0:59:49.958 --> 0:59:51.920
is that for the first time

0:59:52.059 --> 0:59:53.320
ever in a public forum,

0:59:54.021 --> 0:59:55.402
the fraudulent hockey stick

0:59:55.461 --> 0:59:56.902
is going to be exposed and

0:59:56.922 --> 0:59:57.682
it will be on the public

0:59:57.722 --> 0:59:59.784
record forever and it will be referenced,

0:59:59.824 --> 1:00:02.045
I would hope, for decades to come.

1:00:03.106 --> 1:00:04.706
Maybe as a kind of thing, hey,

1:00:04.726 --> 1:00:05.447
remember when the hockey

1:00:05.467 --> 1:00:06.126
stick was a thing?

1:00:06.427 --> 1:00:07.248
That would be kind of fun,

1:00:07.407 --> 1:00:09.248
but we'll see if that's how it turns out.

1:00:11.329 --> 1:00:12.951
I want to caution CARE

1:00:14.175 --> 1:00:14.856
I don't know if I've ever

1:00:14.916 --> 1:00:15.835
called it fraudulent.

1:00:17.277 --> 1:00:19.760
But the statistician yesterday, he said,

1:00:19.800 --> 1:00:20.880
no, I never said it was fraud.

1:00:20.940 --> 1:00:22.601
Fraud requires intent.

1:00:22.681 --> 1:00:23.862
I can't get in people's minds.

1:00:24.262 --> 1:00:25.164
I called it deceptive

1:00:25.284 --> 1:00:26.284
because it is deceptive.

1:00:26.324 --> 1:00:28.005
And he explained why it was deceptive,

1:00:28.126 --> 1:00:31.248
why it didn't follow norms of statistics,

1:00:31.349 --> 1:00:36.373
why it cherry-picked certain statistics.

1:00:39.596 --> 1:00:40.996
There's no question it's deceptive.

1:00:41.976 --> 1:00:43.559
And man...

1:00:45.978 --> 1:00:48.059
He may have committed fraud when he said,

1:00:48.378 --> 1:00:49.438
I'm a Nobel Prize winner.

1:00:50.639 --> 1:00:53.559
He may have lied in court when he said,

1:00:53.699 --> 1:00:54.880
I don't tweet that often.

1:00:57.561 --> 1:01:00.302
And when he said, before Congress,

1:01:00.581 --> 1:01:02.222
under oath, I don't call people,

1:01:02.262 --> 1:01:03.583
I've never called anyone a denier.

1:01:06.114 --> 1:01:09.376
How he could say that, it befuddles me.

1:01:10.775 --> 1:01:14.637
But I'm not convinced we can

1:01:14.858 --> 1:01:16.117
know with certainty that it

1:01:16.157 --> 1:01:18.338
was fraud perpetrated upon the IPCC.

1:01:18.639 --> 1:01:20.259
Because I'm not convinced

1:01:20.478 --> 1:01:21.860
the IPCC ever cared about

1:01:21.900 --> 1:01:22.659
the truthfulness of it.

1:01:23.139 --> 1:01:25.920
It made the case they were trying to make.

1:01:25.981 --> 1:01:26.141
Right.

1:01:26.820 --> 1:01:27.902
They didn't care about the accuracy.

1:01:27.942 --> 1:01:29.202
They cared about the usefulness of it.

1:01:29.242 --> 1:01:30.523
They didn't care about the accuracy of it.

1:01:31.585 --> 1:01:33.146
So we'll wrap up the show here,

1:01:33.186 --> 1:01:36.028
but I wanted to thank both

1:01:36.128 --> 1:01:39.030
Peter Williams for his nine pounds,

1:01:39.030 --> 1:01:42.934
99 pence, I believe, in proper money,

1:01:42.974 --> 1:01:44.414
as they say, from England.

1:01:44.675 --> 1:01:45.916
And also here,

1:01:45.996 --> 1:01:47.157
Alan Griffiths has a question.

1:01:48.217 --> 1:01:49.199
for 10 pounds.

1:01:49.239 --> 1:01:49.938
Thank you very much.

1:01:50.039 --> 1:01:52.000
Let's suppose Stein and Simberg win.

1:01:52.679 --> 1:01:54.380
What then for the IPCC and

1:01:54.400 --> 1:01:56.782
the whole climate change industry?

1:01:57.842 --> 1:02:03.545
Well, I hate to be the negative one.

1:02:03.585 --> 1:02:04.605
I don't think it'll make the

1:02:04.704 --> 1:02:09.027
IPCC withdraw using some of

1:02:09.047 --> 1:02:11.268
those models from their AR6

1:02:11.547 --> 1:02:12.307
reports or anything.

1:02:12.608 --> 1:02:13.248
I don't think that that's

1:02:13.268 --> 1:02:14.289
going to change anything.

1:02:14.309 --> 1:02:14.329
I

1:02:17.681 --> 1:02:20.322
I do think that they will be seething mad.

1:02:20.983 --> 1:02:22.483
There will be many emails

1:02:22.563 --> 1:02:23.644
going back and forth,

1:02:24.364 --> 1:02:25.806
particularly among the

1:02:25.925 --> 1:02:27.226
individuals who are already

1:02:27.306 --> 1:02:28.666
busted for sending nasty

1:02:28.726 --> 1:02:30.387
emails that were brought up in this trial,

1:02:30.427 --> 1:02:32.427
including a gentleman from

1:02:32.487 --> 1:02:36.230
NASA who is also just...

1:02:36.510 --> 1:02:38.471
His activities on Twitter

1:02:38.490 --> 1:02:40.431
are just really shocking

1:02:40.512 --> 1:02:41.271
for someone who's supposed

1:02:41.291 --> 1:02:42.112
to be a professional.

1:02:44.833 --> 1:02:44.974
It's...

1:02:47.918 --> 1:02:49.900
I won't say that it will all

1:02:49.920 --> 1:02:51.760
of a sudden create like a

1:02:51.840 --> 1:02:54.483
collapse in the whole narrative,

1:02:55.103 --> 1:02:58.405
but it will reveal a pre-existing crack.

1:02:59.206 --> 1:03:01.288
And I think that it can be

1:03:01.369 --> 1:03:03.190
leveraged on our part from there.

1:03:05.572 --> 1:03:07.135
I largely agree with Linnea there.

1:03:07.335 --> 1:03:08.416
I don't think it will change

1:03:08.436 --> 1:03:09.956
their narrative, right?

1:03:10.277 --> 1:03:11.157
Because the hockey stick is

1:03:11.197 --> 1:03:11.798
only part of it.

1:03:12.159 --> 1:03:13.460
It's not one of the climate models.

1:03:13.581 --> 1:03:15.461
It's a statistical analysis

1:03:15.501 --> 1:03:16.963
that used graphical form.

1:03:17.403 --> 1:03:18.804
They didn't use it in the

1:03:19.226 --> 1:03:22.889
three reports they issued

1:03:23.088 --> 1:03:24.451
after it because they

1:03:24.530 --> 1:03:25.532
didn't want to get into that.

1:03:26.331 --> 1:03:27.353
I doubt they'll ever put it

1:03:27.393 --> 1:03:28.614
in there again if it loses.

1:03:28.695 --> 1:03:29.335
I mean, you know,

1:03:29.896 --> 1:03:30.976
they almost certainly won't.

1:03:32.195 --> 1:03:34.237
They'll just it'll be it'll

1:03:34.257 --> 1:03:35.978
be like in The Wizard of Oz

1:03:36.137 --> 1:03:37.298
when the curtain is peeled

1:03:37.318 --> 1:03:39.579
back and the wizard says, ignore the man,

1:03:39.860 --> 1:03:41.300
ignore the man behind the curtain.

1:03:41.800 --> 1:03:43.802
And and the IPCC says, oh, well,

1:03:43.842 --> 1:03:44.902
that's old news.

1:03:44.963 --> 1:03:47.503
That was that was five reports ago.

1:03:47.563 --> 1:03:49.385
We're not talking about that.

1:03:51.606 --> 1:03:53.266
We know we've got a lot of

1:03:53.286 --> 1:03:54.068
data since then.

1:03:55.153 --> 1:03:55.695
Yeah, well,

1:03:55.735 --> 1:03:56.755
I think what's fair to say is

1:03:56.815 --> 1:03:59.137
that Michael Mann winning

1:03:59.177 --> 1:04:00.780
would be really great for his side,

1:04:00.800 --> 1:04:01.960
or at least would be portrayed that way.

1:04:01.981 --> 1:04:04.402
And him losing is what you

1:04:04.443 --> 1:04:05.664
would think is the opposite of that.

1:04:05.724 --> 1:04:06.945
So it's better than the alternative,

1:04:07.065 --> 1:04:09.568
which is a D.C.

1:04:09.969 --> 1:04:12.610
jury ruling, I think,

1:04:12.672 --> 1:04:14.974
beyond all logic and evidence that...

1:04:16.215 --> 1:04:17.735
He has been defamed and is

1:04:17.896 --> 1:04:20.677
in his due punishment for

1:04:21.217 --> 1:04:22.157
Stein and Simberg.

1:04:22.498 --> 1:04:23.858
If he loses, it'll be appealed.

1:04:24.478 --> 1:04:25.659
If he loses, it'll be appealed.

1:04:25.679 --> 1:04:25.938
Sure.

1:04:26.239 --> 1:04:28.981
So more court for Stein and Simberg.

1:04:29.260 --> 1:04:29.541
Yeah.

1:04:29.780 --> 1:04:30.981
If he loses, it'll be appealed.

1:04:31.581 --> 1:04:32.481
It'll be a black mark.

1:04:32.702 --> 1:04:35.164
I suspect that it won't hurt the IPCC,

1:04:35.224 --> 1:04:36.824
but it will hurt man and

1:04:36.864 --> 1:04:37.824
it'll hurt his colleagues.

1:04:38.105 --> 1:04:39.465
If I'm one of his colleagues,

1:04:39.525 --> 1:04:40.266
I don't want to work with him.

1:04:40.826 --> 1:04:42.086
I don't think I don't think

1:04:42.126 --> 1:04:43.246
it'll hurt man one bit

1:04:43.286 --> 1:04:44.507
because he's already lost

1:04:44.768 --> 1:04:45.788
court cases that should

1:04:45.807 --> 1:04:47.309
have hurt him in the eyes

1:04:47.329 --> 1:04:49.389
of his colleagues and stuff.

1:04:50.110 --> 1:04:50.891
And they don't they don't

1:04:50.951 --> 1:04:51.791
care because the kind of

1:04:51.831 --> 1:04:52.710
people that he's hanging

1:04:52.811 --> 1:04:53.871
out with don't care.

1:04:53.911 --> 1:04:55.333
Leonardo DiCaprio doesn't

1:04:55.413 --> 1:04:57.873
care that the data doesn't back it up.

1:04:58.233 --> 1:04:59.855
He's having too much fun, you know,

1:04:59.894 --> 1:05:00.695
running around doing

1:05:01.275 --> 1:05:02.936
whatever celebrity

1:05:02.976 --> 1:05:04.496
appearances he does for this stuff.

1:05:04.916 --> 1:05:05.157
I mean,

1:05:05.197 --> 1:05:07.097
they don't they really do not care.

1:05:08.311 --> 1:05:09.090
No, they don't.

1:05:09.291 --> 1:05:09.490
Well,

1:05:09.650 --> 1:05:11.132
we will have it as actually as an

1:05:11.172 --> 1:05:11.831
exit question.

1:05:12.652 --> 1:05:14.913
It's so asks,

1:05:14.992 --> 1:05:16.474
does Mark need financial support?

1:05:16.514 --> 1:05:18.054
And the answer to that is yes.

1:05:18.514 --> 1:05:20.614
So you can go to Mark Stein,

1:05:21.596 --> 1:05:22.436
Mark Stein's website,

1:05:22.576 --> 1:05:24.157
Stein online dot com.

1:05:24.356 --> 1:05:26.277
He is selling truth sticks,

1:05:26.416 --> 1:05:28.358
truth hockey sticks to help

1:05:28.438 --> 1:05:31.498
fund his his his legal bills.

1:05:31.739 --> 1:05:32.480
He doesn't have the

1:05:35.260 --> 1:05:36.201
what Michael Mann has,

1:05:36.260 --> 1:05:37.581
which is the supposed

1:05:37.800 --> 1:05:40.541
climate science legal defense fund.

1:05:40.981 --> 1:05:42.222
So he has to depend on the

1:05:42.262 --> 1:05:44.262
likes of us to help him in

1:05:44.302 --> 1:05:45.503
this very important fight

1:05:45.563 --> 1:05:47.023
and battle for the truth

1:05:47.244 --> 1:05:48.844
when it comes to the climate.

1:05:50.085 --> 1:05:52.226
So that's going to be it for today.

1:05:52.246 --> 1:05:55.527
You know, I want to thank everybody here,

1:05:55.586 --> 1:05:57.608
obviously, for being on the program.

1:05:58.509 --> 1:06:00.690
And we are covering this trial.

1:06:00.710 --> 1:06:01.289
We're going to take it all

1:06:01.309 --> 1:06:01.809
the way to the end.

1:06:01.869 --> 1:06:03.311
So the judge says that the

1:06:03.351 --> 1:06:05.030
trial is supposed to end on Wednesday.

1:06:05.251 --> 1:06:06.012
So Monday, Tuesday,

1:06:06.052 --> 1:06:06.692
Wednesday are going to be

1:06:06.711 --> 1:06:07.532
very important days.

1:06:08.152 --> 1:06:09.092
I know I will be watching

1:06:09.112 --> 1:06:09.992
and listening to the trial.

1:06:10.052 --> 1:06:11.233
I suspect Sterling and

1:06:11.273 --> 1:06:12.673
Linnea will as much as they can.

1:06:13.074 --> 1:06:14.934
And we will hopefully have

1:06:14.974 --> 1:06:16.056
some good news to report

1:06:16.675 --> 1:06:18.878
at the end of next week and

1:06:19.298 --> 1:06:21.099
every Friday at 1 p.m.

1:06:21.199 --> 1:06:22.822
Eastern Time, 12 p.m.

1:06:23.342 --> 1:06:23.943
Central Time.

1:06:24.222 --> 1:06:24.784
It's Climate Change

1:06:24.824 --> 1:06:26.184
Roundtable by the Heartland Institute.

1:06:26.204 --> 1:06:28.246
I want to thank again all of

1:06:28.367 --> 1:06:29.849
you for watching here online.

1:06:29.889 --> 1:06:32.351
I want to thank you for being in the chat.

1:06:32.811 --> 1:06:33.672
It's been fantastic.

1:06:33.813 --> 1:06:35.795
And we will talk to you next week.

1:06:57.472 --> 1:06:58.215
How dare you?

1:07:00.106 --> 1:07:00.829
How dare you?