1 00:00:01.850 --> 00:00:04.051 Welcome to ChannelWaves, the podcast where channel 2 00:00:04.051 --> 00:00:07.322 leaders share success strategies, best practices, and emerging 3 00:00:07.322 --> 00:00:09.668 trends brought to you by StructuredWeb. 4 00:00:09.668 --> 00:00:12.042 Here's your host, Stephen Kellam. 5 00:00:12.042 --> 00:00:13.252 Welcome, everybody, to another 6 00:00:13.252 --> 00:00:14.634 episode of ChannelWaves. 7 00:00:14.634 --> 00:00:16.314 I'm your host, Stephen Kellam. 8 00:00:16.314 --> 00:00:19.882 Very excited today to be talking partnerships, Partnership 9 00:00:19.882 --> 00:00:23.908 Leaders with Asher Mathew, who is the co- 10 00:00:23.908 --> 00:00:26.594 founder and CEO of Partnership Leaders. 11 00:00:26.594 --> 00:00:28.908 Welcome, Asher. Thank you so much. 12 00:00:28.908 --> 00:00:30.012 Thanks for having me. 13 00:00:30.012 --> 00:00:31.260 No, it's great. 14 00:00:31.260 --> 00:00:34.434 Hey, look, congratulations for becoming 15 00:00:34.434 --> 00:00:36.252 a partnership leaders member finally. 16 00:00:36.252 --> 00:00:37.160 This is love. 17 00:00:38.270 --> 00:00:38.864 Yes. 18 00:00:38.864 --> 00:00:41.952 And thank you for finally showing me 19 00:00:41.952 --> 00:00:44.918 the value and providing me value Partnership 20 00:00:44.918 --> 00:00:46.890 Leaders so that I could join. 21 00:00:48.590 --> 00:00:49.900 It's interesting, right? 22 00:00:51.970 --> 00:00:54.160 I was talking to somebody else this week, right? 23 00:00:56.050 --> 00:01:00.708 And in our history, we started working 24 00:01:00.708 --> 00:01:02.564 with a company called Crossbeam, which I 25 00:01:02.564 --> 00:01:04.180 think everybody should know, right? 26 00:01:05.349 --> 00:01:07.460 And we did so much stuff with them 27 00:01:08.310 --> 00:01:10.568 because Crossbeam needed us and we needed them. 28 00:01:10.568 --> 00:01:14.150 And there was a very symbiotic relationship. 29 00:01:14.150 --> 00:01:15.656 People for the longest time thought 30 00:01:15.656 --> 00:01:17.960 we were the Crossbeams Community, right? 31 00:01:19.450 --> 00:01:21.442 And then since then, Crossbeams have grown 32 00:01:21.442 --> 00:01:23.618 up and they have much larger ambitions. 33 00:01:23.618 --> 00:01:26.810 They have to go create a much larger company, right? 34 00:01:26.810 --> 00:01:29.708 So they're focusing on partnerships, personas, but 35 00:01:29.708 --> 00:01:32.252 also other go to market personas, right? 36 00:01:32.252 --> 00:01:33.888 And then people like, I was on the 37 00:01:33.888 --> 00:01:35.408 phone with somebody else and they were like, 38 00:01:35.408 --> 00:01:37.632 hey, how's things at Crossbeam? 39 00:01:37.632 --> 00:01:38.272 I'm like, what do you mean? 40 00:01:38.272 --> 00:01:40.000 They're like, well, aren't you their community? 41 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:43.652 And I'm like, okay, let me explain to you what we do. 42 00:01:43.652 --> 00:01:45.444 And not that there's anything wrong with that, 43 00:01:45.444 --> 00:01:48.196 but I'm just like, it's so hard to 44 00:01:48.196 --> 00:01:50.990 share information and just make it stick. 45 00:01:52.690 --> 00:01:54.776 But the reason I share that is because 46 00:01:54.776 --> 00:01:57.208 the primary value when we started was just 47 00:01:57.208 --> 00:02:00.712 to help people understand how account mapping actually 48 00:02:00.712 --> 00:02:02.792 works and why account mapping is great. 49 00:02:02.792 --> 00:02:08.972 And then now where we are is we have 978 companies 50 00:02:08.972 --> 00:02:11.720 on the network, if you want to call it that. Right? 51 00:02:12.410 --> 00:02:16.892 And then 34% of them are SMBs, 33% of them are 52 00:02:16.892 --> 00:02:20.230 mid market, and now 33% of them are like large enterprise. 53 00:02:20.890 --> 00:02:23.136 Not to interrupt you, but I am going to interrupt you. 54 00:02:23.136 --> 00:02:26.032 Yeah, that's okay for me, people 55 00:02:26.032 --> 00:02:27.296 like me, that is the value. 56 00:02:27.296 --> 00:02:30.022 This is the reason we're talking, I think. Fascinating. 57 00:02:30.022 --> 00:02:31.188 We're going to talk about the 58 00:02:31.188 --> 00:02:33.732 acceleration of all of this, right? 59 00:02:33.732 --> 00:02:36.548 And that 33% of the enterprise and 60 00:02:36.548 --> 00:02:39.840 the difference two years really makes. Yeah. 61 00:02:41.090 --> 00:02:42.452 Thank you to you. 62 00:02:42.452 --> 00:02:44.218 Thank you to, let's say, Heather Margolis. 63 00:02:44.218 --> 00:02:46.072 And thank you to a few other people that 64 00:02:46.072 --> 00:02:49.208 actually gave me this feedback in January, because I 65 00:02:49.208 --> 00:02:53.678 clearly remember the feedback was, hey, look like Partnership 66 00:02:53.678 --> 00:02:58.780 Leaders is supporting a lot of the emerging tech, 67 00:02:58.780 --> 00:03:02.274 but what about the tech that needs transformation? 68 00:03:02.274 --> 00:03:08.028 Because if partnerships is the future, then there's a lot 69 00:03:08.028 --> 00:03:10.352 of other people that need to hear this message, too. 70 00:03:10.352 --> 00:03:11.104 Right. 71 00:03:11.104 --> 00:03:14.096 And it didn't quite click back then. 72 00:03:14.096 --> 00:03:17.312 But then right from that, we started exploring what 73 00:03:17.312 --> 00:03:19.648 would it take to serve the large enterprise. Right. 74 00:03:19.648 --> 00:03:21.440 Like, we don't have a product for them, and then 75 00:03:21.440 --> 00:03:24.160 we also don't want to just show up and say, 76 00:03:24.160 --> 00:03:28.468 me, me, but rather actually find value for them. 77 00:03:28.468 --> 00:03:30.228 And I feel like today we have that. Right. 78 00:03:30.228 --> 00:03:32.772 And so I can go into detail of that. 79 00:03:32.772 --> 00:03:35.176 But thank you for inspiring us. 80 00:03:35.176 --> 00:03:38.980 And you were also there at Catalyst in Miami last year. 81 00:03:39.750 --> 00:03:42.472 I've been there since the beginning. Exactly. 82 00:03:42.472 --> 00:03:44.542 You've literally seen the whole journey. 83 00:03:44.542 --> 00:03:46.328 So thank you for that. Yeah. 84 00:03:46.328 --> 00:03:49.612 And look, I'm no visionary, that for sure, but I 85 00:03:49.612 --> 00:03:51.484 recognize a good thing when I see it coming. 86 00:03:51.484 --> 00:03:55.132 And I also recognize how quickly I 87 00:03:55.132 --> 00:03:57.026 thought this was going to Intertwine. 88 00:03:57.026 --> 00:03:59.130 And we met two years ago in Miami. 89 00:03:59.710 --> 00:04:03.216 I thought a CPO was a Chief Product Officer. Right. 90 00:04:03.216 --> 00:04:04.352 Okay, I'm dating myself. 91 00:04:04.352 --> 00:04:05.856 I'm not really dating myself. 92 00:04:05.856 --> 00:04:10.336 Four years ago, if you said CPO, what's a CPO? Yeah. 93 00:04:10.336 --> 00:04:11.702 You would have said Chief Product Officer. 94 00:04:11.702 --> 00:04:12.912 It's a Chief Product Officer. Right. 95 00:04:12.912 --> 00:04:14.672 I still have a hard time writing it. 96 00:04:14.672 --> 00:04:17.690 And, you know, what is the Chief Partnerships Officer? 97 00:04:17.690 --> 00:04:19.956 So maybe here's what I really. 98 00:04:19.956 --> 00:04:22.132 The question I want to ask is this is 99 00:04:22.132 --> 00:04:25.428 incredibly disruptive and for the channel, is this an 100 00:04:25.428 --> 00:04:27.480 opportunity or is this something to angst over? 101 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:32.408 But don't answer that, because I think yet, because 102 00:04:32.408 --> 00:04:34.808 what I think we should go is a little 103 00:04:34.808 --> 00:04:38.248 bit of Partnership Leaders, how it's evolved, and what 104 00:04:38.248 --> 00:04:41.708 is a Chief Partnership Officer, and how does that 105 00:04:41.708 --> 00:04:44.514 fit into this world where we're all seeking clarity? 106 00:04:44.514 --> 00:04:46.044 And you got channel on one side, 107 00:04:46.044 --> 00:04:48.050 you got ecosystems, you got alliances. 108 00:04:48.050 --> 00:04:51.248 And they are just getting so intertwined, and people 109 00:04:51.248 --> 00:04:53.020 are trying to figure out what's the difference? 110 00:04:54.270 --> 00:04:55.574 What's the similarity? 111 00:04:55.574 --> 00:04:56.848 I think most importantly, they're trying 112 00:04:56.848 --> 00:04:58.410 to figure out where's the synergy? 113 00:04:59.470 --> 00:05:02.746 What do I need to do to be a part of it? Yeah, totally. 114 00:05:02.746 --> 00:05:07.002 So Partnership Leaders exists to elevate 115 00:05:07.002 --> 00:05:12.212 partner teams around the world, and 116 00:05:12.212 --> 00:05:15.112 we have four distinct offerings today. 117 00:05:15.112 --> 00:05:18.168 We have a community which can be thought 118 00:05:18.168 --> 00:05:21.330 of as a membership association or a network. 119 00:05:22.310 --> 00:05:26.136 And we were born out of COVID So we built 120 00:05:26.136 --> 00:05:30.130 virtual engagement first, and then we built in person experiences. 121 00:05:30.130 --> 00:05:31.644 So that's one piece. 122 00:05:31.644 --> 00:05:34.722 The second piece is market insights. 123 00:05:34.722 --> 00:05:38.972 We have seven or eight reports done on topics like 124 00:05:38.972 --> 00:05:42.358 the state of partner ops, the state of partner led 125 00:05:42.358 --> 00:05:45.790 growth, which is focused on go to market teams. 126 00:05:45.790 --> 00:05:48.022 We have the state of partner 127 00:05:48.022 --> 00:05:49.814 experience, the state of co-sale. 128 00:05:49.814 --> 00:05:52.030 How do you work with hyperscalers? 129 00:05:53.410 --> 00:05:56.132 So that's another part of our group, right? 130 00:05:56.132 --> 00:05:58.346 And then the third piece is experiences. 131 00:05:58.346 --> 00:06:01.508 We have meetups that are running around the world. 132 00:06:01.508 --> 00:06:04.308 We have our conference, Catalyst, which 133 00:06:04.308 --> 00:06:06.630 had 700 people attend this year. 134 00:06:06.630 --> 00:06:08.728 And then the last piece is we have education, right? 135 00:06:08.728 --> 00:06:10.520 So we have self-serve education, 136 00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:12.888 and we have cohort based education. 137 00:06:12.888 --> 00:06:16.338 And these four pieces, in our humble 138 00:06:16.338 --> 00:06:20.818 opinion, bring together tools that partner teams 139 00:06:20.818 --> 00:06:22.760 can use to elevate themselves. 140 00:06:23.370 --> 00:06:26.130 And a lot of partner people are really builders. 141 00:06:26.130 --> 00:06:27.436 And so they want to build. 142 00:06:27.436 --> 00:06:28.802 They want to go build partner 143 00:06:28.802 --> 00:06:30.496 programs, they want to build companies. 144 00:06:30.496 --> 00:06:32.368 So we created a company 145 00:06:32.368 --> 00:06:34.112 that literally just supports them. 146 00:06:34.112 --> 00:06:37.056 So if there was like, a platform for success 147 00:06:37.056 --> 00:06:39.744 for partner teams, that's how we're positioning it, and 148 00:06:39.744 --> 00:06:41.668 we'll add more features to support them. 149 00:06:41.668 --> 00:06:44.996 So that's how we've been able to 150 00:06:44.996 --> 00:06:47.252 take the most important things that create 151 00:06:47.252 --> 00:06:49.652 value for members and put them together. 152 00:06:49.652 --> 00:06:51.716 Okay, maybe you can start with what 153 00:06:51.716 --> 00:06:55.272 is a CPO in this, right? 154 00:06:55.272 --> 00:06:59.992 And remember, 95% of the audience that I reach 155 00:06:59.992 --> 00:07:02.696 on a daily basis or that I'm connected with 156 00:07:02.696 --> 00:07:08.570 define the channel as selling through versus selling with. 157 00:07:08.570 --> 00:07:10.898 Once again, it's all starting to comingle. 158 00:07:10.898 --> 00:07:21.478 But I think that's our one thing to emphasize 159 00:07:21.478 --> 00:07:26.640 is Partnership Leaders is not creating any movement, right. 160 00:07:26.640 --> 00:07:28.560 Like we are creating a platform 161 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:30.832 to support other people's movement, right? 162 00:07:30.832 --> 00:07:33.526 So everything that's happening in the marketplace, 163 00:07:33.526 --> 00:07:35.972 we are reading it, we have 1500 164 00:07:35.972 --> 00:07:37.386 members in 42 different countries. 165 00:07:37.386 --> 00:07:40.628 So we're grabbing information all the time, and 166 00:07:40.628 --> 00:07:43.224 we're picking the things that logically make sense, 167 00:07:43.224 --> 00:07:45.192 and then we're amplifying that, right? 168 00:07:45.192 --> 00:07:48.248 So what we learned in the last two years, 169 00:07:48.248 --> 00:07:51.944 specifically, actually, it started at Catalyst last year, right. 170 00:07:51.944 --> 00:07:56.492 Is that partnerships impact across the 171 00:07:56.492 --> 00:08:01.090 customer journey became important to realize. 172 00:08:01.090 --> 00:08:04.108 And so whether it is the presales process, where I 173 00:08:04.108 --> 00:08:07.932 believe most of the channel exists, or it's the post 174 00:08:07.932 --> 00:08:12.976 sales process, which is where services and alliances exist, or 175 00:08:12.976 --> 00:08:15.798 I know there are some definitions of channel which include 176 00:08:15.798 --> 00:08:17.872 all of that, too, that's also okay, right? 177 00:08:17.872 --> 00:08:20.932 But this new thing that came up, which was 178 00:08:20.932 --> 00:08:25.492 technology integrations, which actually focused on the workflow of 179 00:08:25.492 --> 00:08:30.602 users, that part of partnerships was even more underserved 180 00:08:30.602 --> 00:08:32.484 than all the other parts of partnerships, which would 181 00:08:32.484 --> 00:08:33.832 be channels and alliances, right? 182 00:08:33.832 --> 00:08:38.472 And so we found ourselves as a home for them first. 183 00:08:38.472 --> 00:08:42.142 And then at Catalyst, the whole conversation became 184 00:08:42.142 --> 00:08:46.012 about serving the entire customer journey, and it 185 00:08:46.012 --> 00:08:49.042 almost became, like a Chief Customer Officer role 186 00:08:49.042 --> 00:08:53.692 for partnerships, because the customer success team also 187 00:08:53.692 --> 00:08:55.510 serves the entire customer journey. 188 00:08:56.490 --> 00:08:58.816 And in some companies, the CRO does that. 189 00:08:58.816 --> 00:09:01.888 And so what we realized over the last year or 190 00:09:01.888 --> 00:09:06.518 so is that there are three or four different types 191 00:09:06.518 --> 00:09:11.892 of partnerships, and then there is now a world where 192 00:09:11.892 --> 00:09:15.380 they all have to work together, whether they're selling together, 193 00:09:15.380 --> 00:09:17.844 marketing together, serving together, or building together. 194 00:09:17.844 --> 00:09:18.480 Right. 195 00:09:21.010 --> 00:09:24.222 But what's missing is a leader 196 00:09:24.222 --> 00:09:26.260 who can unify all of them. 197 00:09:29.750 --> 00:09:31.912 And the reason why we believe that is 198 00:09:31.912 --> 00:09:34.808 because on the direct business side, there is 199 00:09:34.808 --> 00:09:38.588 a CRO who's responsible for unifying SMB, mid 200 00:09:38.588 --> 00:09:43.266 market and enterprise sales. For us in partnerships, 201 00:09:43.266 --> 00:09:46.300 I would say whether you're in the pre-sales process, 202 00:09:46.300 --> 00:09:48.188 which is where a lot of channel companies exist, or 203 00:09:48.188 --> 00:09:50.566 you're in the post-sales process, where the alliances exist, 204 00:09:50.566 --> 00:09:54.080 or you're helping with the workflow, which is where technology 205 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:58.192 integrations exist, or you're building large strategic deals to grow 206 00:09:58.192 --> 00:10:02.996 companies and provide leverage, there has to be talent that 207 00:10:02.996 --> 00:10:07.988 exists out in the marketplace that is an expert in 208 00:10:07.988 --> 00:10:08.836 all of them. 209 00:10:08.836 --> 00:10:14.552 And so the stats are there are 152,000 CMOs, there 210 00:10:14.552 --> 00:10:19.998 are 37,000 CROs, about 27,000 Chief Sales Officers, 10,000 Chief 211 00:10:19.998 --> 00:10:22.900 Customer Officers, and I think less than 2000, 212 00:10:23.430 --> 00:10:25.922 let's call it alliances, channels, or partnership 213 00:10:25.922 --> 00:10:28.892 leaders that are senior at that level. 214 00:10:28.892 --> 00:10:31.724 Well, okay, you say there's 2000. 215 00:10:31.724 --> 00:10:34.840 How many of them were there four years ago? 216 00:10:35.770 --> 00:10:36.348 I don't know. 217 00:10:36.348 --> 00:10:37.400 I think no. 218 00:10:38.410 --> 00:10:39.640 We were so young. 219 00:10:41.210 --> 00:10:42.604 So this is a hobby, right? 220 00:10:42.604 --> 00:10:44.448 This is a hobby that became something. 221 00:10:44.448 --> 00:10:47.632 And then along the way, folks that are super 222 00:10:47.632 --> 00:10:50.928 experienced, like yourself and Heather and Jay and a 223 00:10:50.928 --> 00:10:54.020 number of people like Alan and stuff, you've all 224 00:10:54.020 --> 00:10:57.364 helped us realize the different things that are important. 225 00:10:57.364 --> 00:10:59.828 And so we have built this thing with you. 226 00:10:59.828 --> 00:11:01.348 All right, again, we didn't build 227 00:11:01.348 --> 00:11:02.590 this thing all by ourselves. 228 00:11:03.570 --> 00:11:05.928 Actually, almost everything in Partnership Leaders is 229 00:11:05.928 --> 00:11:07.656 built by somebody in our community. 230 00:11:07.656 --> 00:11:08.760 And so it's a very 231 00:11:08.760 --> 00:11:12.750 member driven, member built organization. 232 00:11:12.750 --> 00:11:15.140 And now we're at a point where we are 233 00:11:15.750 --> 00:11:18.840 creating some structure so we can elevate all of 234 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.628 those members to the goals that they want. 235 00:11:21.628 --> 00:11:23.708 Look, I think it's a great opportunity when 236 00:11:23.708 --> 00:11:25.148 you're talking to someone, and you and I 237 00:11:25.148 --> 00:11:27.548 both, we've both been in sales, both been 238 00:11:27.548 --> 00:11:31.318 in marketing, I've been a channel chief. 239 00:11:31.318 --> 00:11:33.190 I've run alliances. 240 00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:35.792 And I think the evolution was that 241 00:11:35.792 --> 00:11:37.472 it was all going to come together. 242 00:11:37.472 --> 00:11:40.384 There was a moment in my brain when it just went click. 243 00:11:40.384 --> 00:11:40.948 Okay. 244 00:11:40.948 --> 00:11:42.938 Does it really matter whether you're selling 245 00:11:42.938 --> 00:11:44.640 with or whether you're selling through. 246 00:11:46.690 --> 00:11:50.292 How does that sale work with the ultimate buyer? Right. 247 00:11:50.292 --> 00:11:52.852 And how do we maximize and 248 00:11:52.852 --> 00:11:55.160 make that as effective as possible? 249 00:11:55.160 --> 00:11:57.928 That selling motion marketing, and actually 250 00:11:57.928 --> 00:11:59.256 even the marketing motion too. 251 00:11:59.256 --> 00:12:02.850 Because let me tell you, I was involved in alliances. 252 00:12:04.070 --> 00:12:07.464 I was watching partnerships like seven or 253 00:12:07.464 --> 00:12:08.956 eight years ago when you would have 254 00:12:08.956 --> 00:12:13.020 two massive Fortune 100 companies selling together. 255 00:12:13.020 --> 00:12:14.188 You could name maybe three of them 256 00:12:14.188 --> 00:12:15.964 coming together, doing an offering, and the 257 00:12:15.964 --> 00:12:17.560 worst thing they actually did was market. 258 00:12:18.490 --> 00:12:21.906 And then at the end, on fulfillment and operations 259 00:12:21.906 --> 00:12:24.368 side, we're not even talking about the challenges you 260 00:12:24.368 --> 00:12:26.496 had in the sales side, but they couldn't market 261 00:12:26.496 --> 00:12:28.624 their way out of a box with a message. Right. 262 00:12:28.624 --> 00:12:30.506 So, I mean, it's been going on forever. 263 00:12:30.506 --> 00:12:32.960 It just wasn't done very well. Yeah. 264 00:12:34.850 --> 00:12:40.708 I've now been through four different startups and two 265 00:12:40.708 --> 00:12:42.596 of them were acquired and one went public. 266 00:12:42.596 --> 00:12:44.424 So I've kind of seen a lot of 267 00:12:44.424 --> 00:12:47.048 the different iterations of a go to market. Right. 268 00:12:47.048 --> 00:12:51.220 And so I feel like companies have been working on 269 00:12:52.630 --> 00:12:56.268 co-selling and co-marketing with each other for a 270 00:12:56.268 --> 00:13:01.468 while, but it still landed in this art zone, it 271 00:13:01.468 --> 00:13:05.052 never landed in this science, and maybe it does in 272 00:13:05.052 --> 00:13:11.090 larger organizations, but the vast majority of the SMB and mid 273 00:13:11.090 --> 00:13:15.312 market just looked at it as this thought experiment and 274 00:13:15.312 --> 00:13:17.872 never really put any structure around it. 275 00:13:17.872 --> 00:13:19.808 And that's why you don't have a lot 276 00:13:19.808 --> 00:13:23.316 of senior partner people in mid market companies. 277 00:13:23.316 --> 00:13:24.836 Even companies that like a billion dollars 278 00:13:24.836 --> 00:13:27.818 in revenue don't have Chief Partner Officers 279 00:13:27.818 --> 00:13:29.588 or somebody that's aligning all of the 280 00:13:29.588 --> 00:13:31.476 different partnering functions together. 281 00:13:31.476 --> 00:13:34.266 And by the way, developer audiences 282 00:13:34.266 --> 00:13:35.898 are also a channel of sorts. 283 00:13:35.898 --> 00:13:37.448 Like you and I were talking when we met 284 00:13:37.448 --> 00:13:40.968 for dinner a few weeks ago, where you have 285 00:13:40.968 --> 00:13:44.328 a large company that has a consultants network, but 286 00:13:44.328 --> 00:13:46.744 they also have an app store, and there's a 287 00:13:46.744 --> 00:13:48.524 big opportunity to bring those two together. 288 00:13:48.524 --> 00:13:50.828 But how many leaders exist that can 289 00:13:50.828 --> 00:13:52.600 actually do that type of work? 290 00:13:54.170 --> 00:13:55.004 I don't know. 291 00:13:55.004 --> 00:13:56.620 I actually think there are a fair amount. 292 00:13:56.620 --> 00:13:58.208 Look, I think you could have asked the 293 00:13:58.208 --> 00:14:01.500 partners a long time ago in the channel 294 00:14:03.470 --> 00:14:07.200 through sell partners how it would work. 295 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.254 And it was funny. 296 00:14:09.254 --> 00:14:10.912 We were talking about this when I was 297 00:14:10.912 --> 00:14:14.068 at 360ecosystems last week, and Chris was 298 00:14:14.068 --> 00:14:17.588 there and we were talking about that. 299 00:14:17.588 --> 00:14:19.892 This partnerships has been going 300 00:14:19.892 --> 00:14:21.978 on forever at both levels. 301 00:14:21.978 --> 00:14:24.500 At both the vendor side, they didn't very, like I said, 302 00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:26.888 didn't do a great job on marketing and probably at the 303 00:14:26.888 --> 00:14:30.328 end, but at the partner side, I was an MSP a 304 00:14:30.328 --> 00:14:35.368 while ago, I partnered in 30% of my deals already. 305 00:14:35.368 --> 00:14:37.140 This was ten years ago. 306 00:14:38.790 --> 00:14:40.178 So it's been going on forever. 307 00:14:40.178 --> 00:14:41.970 And we could have probably just asked the partners 308 00:14:41.970 --> 00:14:44.716 in the channel, okay, what do we see? 309 00:14:44.716 --> 00:14:45.804 Where's this thing going? 310 00:14:45.804 --> 00:14:48.354 And I think both from the software side that you're 311 00:14:48.354 --> 00:14:51.874 talking about and development and surely from, we have average 312 00:14:51.874 --> 00:14:54.496 of four vendors in a deal or more. Right. 313 00:14:54.496 --> 00:14:55.648 And then I'm working with two 314 00:14:55.648 --> 00:14:57.334 other partners on my delivery. 315 00:14:57.334 --> 00:14:58.752 By the way, the buyer was looking 316 00:14:58.752 --> 00:15:01.410 at this over ten years ago. 317 00:15:01.410 --> 00:15:08.228 Yeah, I know I'm on this podcast, so 318 00:15:08.228 --> 00:15:11.268 I should be your interview, but I like 319 00:15:11.268 --> 00:15:13.700 to do podcasts where it's a discussion, really. 320 00:15:15.830 --> 00:15:21.016 Why hasn't there been a leader that 321 00:15:21.016 --> 00:15:24.660 unifies all partnering functions in the past? 322 00:15:25.590 --> 00:15:27.320 What does your data point say 323 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:29.060 or what's your experience say? 324 00:15:29.830 --> 00:15:31.948 This is just my take, right. 325 00:15:31.948 --> 00:15:33.788 And it's a discussion. We'll do this. 326 00:15:33.788 --> 00:15:35.378 And maybe just a couple of points because nobody 327 00:15:35.378 --> 00:15:37.042 wants to listen to a 45 minutes podcast. 328 00:15:37.042 --> 00:15:39.532 We can literally take two on it. 329 00:15:39.532 --> 00:15:40.736 Here's my take on it. 330 00:15:40.736 --> 00:15:42.016 I think a couple of things. 331 00:15:42.016 --> 00:15:44.464 I think the channel is very complex and I 332 00:15:44.464 --> 00:15:47.456 think already the focus of a channel chief has 333 00:15:47.456 --> 00:15:52.656 gotten so complex just in the channel itself. Right. 334 00:15:52.656 --> 00:15:55.044 If you look at the evolution of that where, as I 335 00:15:55.044 --> 00:15:58.788 said, ten, okay, maybe 15 years ago when I ran an 336 00:15:58.788 --> 00:16:02.884 MSP, 30% of my deals were with someone else and I 337 00:16:02.884 --> 00:16:04.968 could aggregate what I needed to pull together. 338 00:16:04.968 --> 00:16:06.488 It wasn't that complex, right. 339 00:16:06.488 --> 00:16:07.656 I just made it happen. 340 00:16:07.656 --> 00:16:11.320 And then how people bought started to change. 341 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.846 And that whole idea of, am I MSP? 342 00:16:14.846 --> 00:16:17.358 We were an MSP and we were ISV. 343 00:16:17.358 --> 00:16:21.762 I mean, we sold 40% of our revenue was IP 344 00:16:21.762 --> 00:16:24.716 that we put on top of things 15 years ago. 345 00:16:24.716 --> 00:16:27.218 So all this started to get more complex 346 00:16:27.218 --> 00:16:29.436 and I think the focus was here. 347 00:16:29.436 --> 00:16:31.932 And then while the whole alliance piece was 348 00:16:31.932 --> 00:16:33.376 trying to figure out how to get that 349 00:16:33.376 --> 00:16:35.328 act together, here's what I don't think the 350 00:16:35.328 --> 00:16:37.552 alliance act was together all that long ago. 351 00:16:37.552 --> 00:16:40.336 Once again, having been involved, running an incentive company 352 00:16:40.336 --> 00:16:43.620 with multiple Fortune 50 companies trying to sell something 353 00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:47.764 together and being the incentive arm on that and 354 00:16:47.764 --> 00:16:50.308 watching what they did from their marketing and how 355 00:16:50.308 --> 00:16:52.660 they tried to pull the salespeople together and really 356 00:16:52.660 --> 00:16:55.172 how they tried to do it at the end. 357 00:16:55.172 --> 00:16:57.112 I watched 40% of the deals get 358 00:16:57.112 --> 00:16:58.750 unwound at the end of the quarter. 359 00:16:58.750 --> 00:17:01.352 This is on alliances because sales guys that 360 00:17:01.352 --> 00:17:04.503 had a multimillion dollar quota weren't going to 361 00:17:04.503 --> 00:17:05.960 wait for the other end to come around, 362 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.412 unwound the deal, sold it on their own. Okay. 363 00:17:08.412 --> 00:17:10.626 So you got to fight through all that on the alliances. 364 00:17:10.626 --> 00:17:12.914 You got channel getting very complex. 365 00:17:12.914 --> 00:17:15.020 And I don't think it was until 366 00:17:15.020 --> 00:17:18.188 the realization was a couple of things. 367 00:17:18.188 --> 00:17:19.568 If the buyer is insisting on 368 00:17:19.568 --> 00:17:21.430 this, it becomes more efficient. 369 00:17:21.430 --> 00:17:23.579 And then I think organizations like yourself, 370 00:17:24.270 --> 00:17:26.550 I don't know whether you're reactive or proactive. 371 00:17:26.550 --> 00:17:30.496 I think you're proactively reactive, right? 372 00:17:30.496 --> 00:17:31.952 You're listening and seeing. 373 00:17:31.952 --> 00:17:34.548 And then you guys said, okay, we're going to 374 00:17:34.548 --> 00:17:36.484 run with this and you guys can come along. 375 00:17:36.484 --> 00:17:38.516 And I think you guys created, along 376 00:17:38.516 --> 00:17:41.332 with the market conditions and everybody else, 377 00:17:41.332 --> 00:17:42.916 an opportunity to pull this together. 378 00:17:42.916 --> 00:17:44.682 And someone goes, ding. 379 00:17:44.682 --> 00:17:47.076 All right, why doesn't this fit? 380 00:17:47.076 --> 00:17:49.726 And then we could talk forever about corporate infrastructure 381 00:17:49.726 --> 00:17:51.288 and how it makes sense and how you need 382 00:17:51.288 --> 00:17:53.784 to streamline it and how eventually someone's going to 383 00:17:53.784 --> 00:17:56.020 go, what do they have in common? 384 00:17:57.110 --> 00:17:59.676 If there's a partnership, it doesn't matter. 385 00:17:59.676 --> 00:18:02.316 What we're saying is we're dependent on a relationship 386 00:18:02.316 --> 00:18:04.962 of trust with someone else to create a partner 387 00:18:04.962 --> 00:18:07.938 experience that's going to drive the selling motion, that's 388 00:18:07.938 --> 00:18:10.170 going to allow more sales wins. 389 00:18:10.170 --> 00:18:14.928 I think I just set the whole reason exists, right? Yeah. 390 00:18:14.928 --> 00:18:16.272 At the end of the day, it comes 391 00:18:16.272 --> 00:18:18.928 down to sales velocity, at least for me. Right? 392 00:18:18.928 --> 00:18:20.742 If the sales velocity is faster, 393 00:18:20.742 --> 00:18:21.792 direct, let's just go direct. 394 00:18:21.792 --> 00:18:24.140 If it's faster this way, let's go this way. Right? 395 00:18:25.410 --> 00:18:28.276 I know a lot of leaders emphasize on 396 00:18:28.276 --> 00:18:31.332 ASP and these other things, but for me, 397 00:18:31.332 --> 00:18:33.002 it really comes down to sales velocity. 398 00:18:33.002 --> 00:18:36.080 And so whichever way is faster, we should go do that. 399 00:18:37.910 --> 00:18:40.136 Customer preference dictates that anyways then, right? 400 00:18:40.136 --> 00:18:40.264 Yeah. 401 00:18:40.264 --> 00:18:41.598 I think you got customer preference. 402 00:18:41.598 --> 00:18:43.006 I think you got sales velocity. 403 00:18:43.006 --> 00:18:46.732 I think you've got cost of sale. Right? 404 00:18:46.732 --> 00:18:48.594 Let's just be really frank. 405 00:18:48.594 --> 00:18:51.532 If it was just as cost effective to 406 00:18:51.532 --> 00:18:54.412 sell direct as it was to sell through 407 00:18:54.412 --> 00:18:57.762 the channel, the channel wouldn't exist. 408 00:18:57.762 --> 00:19:02.006 No one wants to add complexity to a sale unless 409 00:19:02.006 --> 00:19:05.952 there is a cost benefit analysis, totally, to it, right? 410 00:19:05.952 --> 00:19:13.588 So I think it's velocity, but I think you just 411 00:19:13.588 --> 00:19:16.210 got to be able to do it cost effectively. 412 00:19:16.210 --> 00:19:17.630 Yeah, agreed. 413 00:19:18.850 --> 00:19:20.858 So you gave the enterprise, 414 00:19:20.858 --> 00:19:22.756 let's call it perspective, right? 415 00:19:22.756 --> 00:19:25.250 I think in the mid market and the SMB, 416 00:19:25.990 --> 00:19:30.070 what happened is you have leaders, but the leaders 417 00:19:30.070 --> 00:19:34.150 did not have the operational infrastructure supporting them. 418 00:19:34.150 --> 00:19:38.550 So they're running around justifying their existence 419 00:19:39.130 --> 00:19:42.044 when they should be working on moving 420 00:19:42.044 --> 00:19:44.390 investment from ad hoc to programmatic. 421 00:19:44.970 --> 00:19:48.598 And so there was no operational layer like the notion 422 00:19:48.598 --> 00:19:53.168 of partner operations that exist in large enterprise companies does 423 00:19:53.168 --> 00:19:58.118 not exist in mid market and SMB, and the tech stack 424 00:19:58.118 --> 00:19:59.776 isn't there for them to do it. 425 00:19:59.776 --> 00:20:02.356 Look, the reason again, we're in the enterprise space 426 00:20:02.356 --> 00:20:05.754 is because they've been able to have the resources 427 00:20:05.754 --> 00:20:07.908 to create a tech stack that allows them to 428 00:20:07.908 --> 00:20:11.396 automate everything so that they can go focus on 429 00:20:11.396 --> 00:20:14.148 other things versus creating a spreadsheet and trying to 430 00:20:14.148 --> 00:20:17.912 drive someone's ROI or metrics across that, right? 431 00:20:17.912 --> 00:20:20.648 And I think that's been the big challenge in 432 00:20:20.648 --> 00:20:22.552 the mid market and the SMB, which 433 00:20:22.552 --> 00:20:24.632 I think created an opportunity for people to come 434 00:20:24.632 --> 00:20:26.712 along, there's both sides to it, right? 435 00:20:26.712 --> 00:20:28.108 I would say the SMB and the mid 436 00:20:28.108 --> 00:20:31.388 market were more flexible because people were less worried about 437 00:20:31.388 --> 00:20:33.484 what they can't do and more worried about put there 438 00:20:33.484 --> 00:20:36.710 to solve problems and less red tape. 439 00:20:39.850 --> 00:20:42.048 So what happened is if you double click 440 00:20:42.048 --> 00:20:43.792 on that, right, so the partner leader then 441 00:20:43.792 --> 00:20:46.800 goes and does multiple experiments when there's no 442 00:20:46.800 --> 00:20:50.272 red tape, right, because they're not focused on 443 00:20:50.272 --> 00:20:53.940 repeatability and rigor, they're focused on revenue, right, 444 00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:55.492 because they're like, go do this, right? 445 00:20:55.492 --> 00:20:58.442 And so what happens is you have 17 446 00:20:58.442 --> 00:21:02.196 different partner types enter the company and then 447 00:21:02.196 --> 00:21:05.112 the organization feels the burden of supporting them. 448 00:21:05.112 --> 00:21:09.166 It would be the same thing as for a startup. 449 00:21:09.166 --> 00:21:12.120 2000 PLG customers came in, SMB customers 450 00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:14.440 and five large enterprise came in, right? 451 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:17.770 They would feel the burden of supporting them, right? 452 00:21:17.770 --> 00:21:21.644 So that then, along with the startup trying to understand, 453 00:21:21.644 --> 00:21:23.564 it's like go to market fit and then trying to 454 00:21:23.564 --> 00:21:28.342 understand how to scale creates a lot of executive friction. 455 00:21:28.342 --> 00:21:32.112 And then when executive friction happens, if you 456 00:21:32.112 --> 00:21:36.160 are a board or a CEO, your first 457 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:38.910 intuition is to remove the friction. 458 00:21:38.910 --> 00:21:41.488 And so you're going to have your 459 00:21:41.488 --> 00:21:42.980 sales and market leaders there because you 460 00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:45.790 absolutely need them, definitely at that stage. 461 00:21:47.730 --> 00:21:50.132 That's why we did the state of partner operations as 462 00:21:50.132 --> 00:21:53.518 a research report, because we said, look, if you don't 463 00:21:53.518 --> 00:21:57.598 invest in operations, you will always be as a partner 464 00:21:57.598 --> 00:22:01.976 leader, always be thought of as an experiment person, because 465 00:22:01.976 --> 00:22:07.132 you just don't have enough time for stakeholder alignment, which 466 00:22:07.132 --> 00:22:09.000 should be 50% of your time. 467 00:22:10.010 --> 00:22:12.764 But we should be getting past that pretty soon, right? 468 00:22:12.764 --> 00:22:14.550 Once again, I don't think Partnership 469 00:22:15.530 --> 00:22:18.082 L eaders exist just to exist. 470 00:22:18.082 --> 00:22:20.416 I think there is something very much something 471 00:22:20.416 --> 00:22:23.568 said, no one wants to be reactionary, but 472 00:22:23.568 --> 00:22:27.232 I do think it started as well. 473 00:22:27.232 --> 00:22:28.438 There's a negative reactionary. 474 00:22:28.438 --> 00:22:30.358 Like someone comes too late and there's 475 00:22:30.358 --> 00:22:33.552 a positive reactionary and someone witnessed something 476 00:22:33.552 --> 00:22:35.012 and got on it, right? 477 00:22:35.012 --> 00:22:37.588 So I think it's the positive side of it. 478 00:22:37.588 --> 00:22:40.084 I think the question is, how do you make it? 479 00:22:40.084 --> 00:22:43.268 Was it moved to proactive, which finally gets to what 480 00:22:43.268 --> 00:22:45.704 we were going to start the whole podcast on. 481 00:22:45.704 --> 00:22:48.360 Totally, which is great, by the way. 482 00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:49.726 So I want a clip. 483 00:22:49.726 --> 00:22:50.846 So I need a clip. 484 00:22:50.846 --> 00:22:53.262 I need 20 seconds. 485 00:22:53.262 --> 00:22:55.356 What's a CPO? Yeah. 486 00:22:55.356 --> 00:22:58.284 So a Chief Partner Officer for 487 00:22:58.284 --> 00:23:00.860 us right now is somebody that 488 00:23:00.860 --> 00:23:05.030 understands all partner motions, including marketplaces. 489 00:23:05.690 --> 00:23:06.440 Okay. 490 00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:14.170 And that's a big enough job to have a C suite role. 491 00:23:15.950 --> 00:23:19.760 And I also believe this is going to evolve, right. 492 00:23:19.760 --> 00:23:22.528 Because when the CRO role started, 493 00:23:22.528 --> 00:23:25.610 it became this all encompassing role. 494 00:23:26.130 --> 00:23:29.658 It was like a rigid definition that all revenue 495 00:23:29.658 --> 00:23:31.818 functions and marketing and customer success and everything that's 496 00:23:31.818 --> 00:23:33.700 a customer is going to be there. Right. 497 00:23:34.390 --> 00:23:38.952 And what happened then was it was just that 498 00:23:38.952 --> 00:23:42.654 CMOs were more brand focused than demand focused. 499 00:23:42.654 --> 00:23:44.520 And so it just made sense to put the 500 00:23:44.520 --> 00:23:47.850 SDR team and the demand function underneath the CRO. 501 00:23:47.850 --> 00:23:50.620 But then over time, you've seen the 502 00:23:50.620 --> 00:23:55.116 CMOs become extremely demand focused and start 503 00:23:55.116 --> 00:23:57.388 taking ownership of pricing and packaging. Right. 504 00:23:57.388 --> 00:23:59.788 And so you have this resurgence of CMOs. Right. 505 00:23:59.788 --> 00:24:00.928 And so I think that's what's going to 506 00:24:00.928 --> 00:24:03.312 happen with the Chief Partner Officer as well. 507 00:24:03.312 --> 00:24:08.288 There's going to be a consolidation of the 508 00:24:08.288 --> 00:24:10.976 different routes to market, as we call them. Right. 509 00:24:10.976 --> 00:24:13.946 And then from there there's going to be specialization. 510 00:24:13.946 --> 00:24:15.412 And so we'll have to see. 511 00:24:15.412 --> 00:24:18.362 But today my definition is someone that understands 512 00:24:18.362 --> 00:24:23.656 and owns all partner motions, including marketplaces, and 513 00:24:23.656 --> 00:24:25.410 then we'll see how it evolves. 514 00:24:26.390 --> 00:24:29.192 It's so interesting and fascinating for me because I 515 00:24:29.192 --> 00:24:32.680 actually lived this right, where I was a channel 516 00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:36.748 chief and then owned alliances at the same time. 517 00:24:36.748 --> 00:24:40.450 So back then, being a channel chief and owning alliance, 518 00:24:40.450 --> 00:24:45.548 no one was calling me a Chief Partnership Officer because 519 00:24:45.548 --> 00:24:49.910 once again, CPO was a Chief Product Officer. 520 00:24:49.910 --> 00:24:51.760 So I've actually walked in those 521 00:24:51.760 --> 00:24:53.216 shoes for a little bit. 522 00:24:53.216 --> 00:24:55.222 It's a pretty, pretty fascinating role. 523 00:24:55.222 --> 00:24:57.776 So how do channel chiefs now 524 00:24:57.776 --> 00:25:01.790 today, how should they view this? 525 00:25:01.790 --> 00:25:03.782 How should they look at a CPO? 526 00:25:03.782 --> 00:25:06.154 Should they want to be a CPO? 527 00:25:06.154 --> 00:25:08.618 How does it fit in on an org chart? 528 00:25:08.618 --> 00:25:09.812 Like, really just get down to 529 00:25:09.812 --> 00:25:11.748 the brass tacks of it, right? 530 00:25:11.748 --> 00:25:12.900 What's the opportunity? 531 00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:13.940 How do you get there? 532 00:25:13.940 --> 00:25:15.838 And do you want it? Yeah, totally. 533 00:25:15.838 --> 00:25:17.198 And so it's interesting, we're 534 00:25:17.198 --> 00:25:18.382 about to launch two reports. 535 00:25:18.382 --> 00:25:20.610 One is literally called the Chief Partner Officer. 536 00:25:21.190 --> 00:25:24.008 It actually goes into exactly this. 537 00:25:24.008 --> 00:25:25.720 And I'll share some information, but 538 00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:27.628 it actually goes into this topic. Right. 539 00:25:27.628 --> 00:25:29.628 And we're also about to launch the 540 00:25:29.628 --> 00:25:32.194 State of Partner Ecosystem, or Platform Ecosystem. 541 00:25:32.194 --> 00:25:32.780 Sorry, exactly. 542 00:25:32.780 --> 00:25:34.550 The State of Platform Ecosystems 543 00:25:35.530 --> 00:25:37.548 with our friends at HubSpot. Right. 544 00:25:37.548 --> 00:25:40.102 And so the reason why both of these reports 545 00:25:40.102 --> 00:25:44.544 exist is to actually show that in some companies, 546 00:25:44.544 --> 00:25:47.910 the channel chiefs actually do own all partner functions. 547 00:25:47.910 --> 00:25:48.910 Right. 548 00:25:48.910 --> 00:25:55.392 But in many companies, they don't, in a number 549 00:25:55.392 --> 00:25:58.532 of companies, actually own a part of the channel. 550 00:25:58.532 --> 00:26:00.132 They don't even own all of the 551 00:26:00.132 --> 00:26:02.720 channel traditionally what we call the channel. Right. 552 00:26:05.010 --> 00:26:08.292 The question then becomes that if you were 553 00:26:08.292 --> 00:26:13.258 to elevate yourself to then create a larger 554 00:26:13.258 --> 00:26:17.270 organization that is responsible for all partner motions, 555 00:26:18.170 --> 00:26:23.794 then can you effectively create a bigger impact? 556 00:26:23.794 --> 00:26:27.804 Because all of partnering is managed by one. Right? 557 00:26:27.804 --> 00:26:29.872 So that means there could be 30 558 00:26:29.872 --> 00:26:33.382 different partner programs, 20 different incentive plans, 559 00:26:33.382 --> 00:26:36.830 four different regions, five different geographies. 560 00:26:36.830 --> 00:26:39.040 All the things that we have to do on the direct 561 00:26:39.040 --> 00:26:41.636 side, they have to be done on the indirect side, too. 562 00:26:41.636 --> 00:26:42.240 Right? 563 00:26:44.370 --> 00:26:47.652 I believe there's an opportunity to do that also. 564 00:26:47.652 --> 00:26:50.852 What we have seen is not all of 565 00:26:50.852 --> 00:26:52.792 those, or maybe a majority of those. 566 00:26:52.792 --> 00:26:54.740 I think that's what the data says. 567 00:26:55.350 --> 00:26:58.050 Channel chiefs report to the CEO. 568 00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:03.736 And so we believe there's an opportunity where this 569 00:27:03.736 --> 00:27:07.944 group can elevate themselves and start sitting in the 570 00:27:07.944 --> 00:27:11.900 C suite organization and actually build the business. 571 00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:15.132 Because if you really think about it, you 572 00:27:15.132 --> 00:27:17.036 go all the way to almost all. 573 00:27:17.036 --> 00:27:18.918 Every partner person that I've met, every good partner 574 00:27:18.918 --> 00:27:21.088 person I've met, they have two things, right? 575 00:27:21.088 --> 00:27:26.262 They're connectors and they're builders, but they don't 576 00:27:26.262 --> 00:27:29.888 sit at this table where other connectors and 577 00:27:29.888 --> 00:27:32.460 builders or senior connectors and builders sit. 578 00:27:33.250 --> 00:27:38.164 So I think they have the traits and they have 579 00:27:38.164 --> 00:27:41.840 the experience, and they just haven't taken that step. 580 00:27:42.370 --> 00:27:44.104 So I'm not an expert in this today. 581 00:27:44.104 --> 00:27:46.552 We're building expertise as we're going, right? 582 00:27:46.552 --> 00:27:48.408 So the next body of work that we have to 583 00:27:48.408 --> 00:27:54.248 do is why haven't the current leaders taken that step? 584 00:27:54.248 --> 00:27:57.816 Or why haven't the CEOs looked 585 00:27:57.816 --> 00:27:59.708 at this much more closely? Right. 586 00:27:59.708 --> 00:28:02.178 I'm sure there were reasons in the past, and there's 587 00:28:02.178 --> 00:28:06.348 current reasons to go look at this, but maybe now 588 00:28:06.348 --> 00:28:08.108 is the time to actually do it right again, like 589 00:28:08.108 --> 00:28:09.702 I said, we are not creating any movement. 590 00:28:09.702 --> 00:28:11.712 We're just picking the things that are happening 591 00:28:11.712 --> 00:28:16.294 in the marketplace and then taking steps logically 592 00:28:16.294 --> 00:28:18.890 to support every type of partner leader. 593 00:28:19.870 --> 00:28:21.174 So do you see this accelerated? 594 00:28:21.174 --> 00:28:22.176 I was going to ask you the 595 00:28:22.176 --> 00:28:24.358 standard ending question of any podcast. 596 00:28:24.358 --> 00:28:27.396 So, Asher, what does this look like in two years? Right? 597 00:28:27.396 --> 00:28:29.626 And part of it is you guys are reactionary, 598 00:28:29.626 --> 00:28:31.908 but I'm sure you have your own thoughts because 599 00:28:31.908 --> 00:28:35.272 you're reactionary, but even in that, you're seeing the 600 00:28:35.272 --> 00:28:38.910 trajectory and the acceleration of all these conversations. 601 00:28:38.910 --> 00:28:41.832 So my perspective is going to look very different in 602 00:28:41.832 --> 00:28:45.430 two years, and the CEO's ears are perking up. 603 00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:47.212 Here's what I think is going to happen is 604 00:28:47.212 --> 00:28:49.586 because this is going to become standard nomenclature. 605 00:28:49.586 --> 00:28:52.946 And from Forrester to Catalyst, 606 00:28:52.946 --> 00:28:55.530 everybody's talking about this, right? 607 00:28:55.530 --> 00:28:58.040 There are T-shirts at Catalyst that said CPO now. 608 00:28:59.230 --> 00:29:00.518 It's close to becoming a meme. 609 00:29:00.518 --> 00:29:01.820 Then it is. 610 00:29:03.070 --> 00:29:05.846 I say this is analogous to AI 611 00:29:05.846 --> 00:29:08.646 and that it's not going anywhere. 612 00:29:08.646 --> 00:29:10.806 It is only going to accelerate. 613 00:29:10.806 --> 00:29:14.128 And there's some great truths out there, and 614 00:29:14.128 --> 00:29:16.068 there's some non truths out there, too. 615 00:29:16.068 --> 00:29:17.332 And everybody's trying to figure 616 00:29:17.332 --> 00:29:18.970 out what's the direction. 617 00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:20.868 And I think, most importantly, so many people are 618 00:29:20.868 --> 00:29:22.426 trying to figure out, where do I contribute? 619 00:29:22.426 --> 00:29:24.468 How do I contribute, and how 620 00:29:24.468 --> 00:29:26.410 do I actually not be reactionary? 621 00:29:26.410 --> 00:29:28.056 I think that's going to be the key, right? 622 00:29:28.056 --> 00:29:29.416 How do I take everything I know? 623 00:29:29.416 --> 00:29:32.488 How do I leverage people and resources like yourself, and 624 00:29:32.488 --> 00:29:34.712 then how do I build my career on this, right? 625 00:29:34.712 --> 00:29:36.456 I think that's the interesting side of it. 626 00:29:36.456 --> 00:29:37.986 So I'm an opportunist. 627 00:29:37.986 --> 00:29:41.292 I see it as just a massive opportunity for everybody. 628 00:29:41.292 --> 00:29:44.490 And I would say, to answer your question specifically, 629 00:29:44.490 --> 00:29:47.480 I don't actually know where it'll go, right. 630 00:29:48.030 --> 00:29:51.174 Because the market changes, and we've 631 00:29:51.174 --> 00:29:52.528 seen market changes pretty quickly. 632 00:29:52.528 --> 00:29:56.224 But what I do know is that our members 633 00:29:56.224 --> 00:30:00.740 are working to upskill themselves to be able to 634 00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:03.120 take this opportunity if it became available. 635 00:30:03.970 --> 00:30:05.572 Now all of us have to come 636 00:30:05.572 --> 00:30:09.120 together and drive this industry change. 637 00:30:09.650 --> 00:30:14.164 But when that happens, we do need leaders that 638 00:30:14.164 --> 00:30:17.470 are ready to take advantage of those opportunities. 639 00:30:17.470 --> 00:30:20.232 Because in the mid market, right, like, if you look 640 00:30:20.232 --> 00:30:25.048 at companies at 100 million in ARR, to, like, 1 641 00:30:25.048 --> 00:30:28.332 billion in ARR, there's about 225,000 companies in there. 642 00:30:28.332 --> 00:30:32.730 Let's just say 2000 of them needed CPOs. 643 00:30:32.730 --> 00:30:35.068 I don't believe 2000 CPOs exist today. 644 00:30:35.068 --> 00:30:36.908 Again, that just may be me, but 645 00:30:36.908 --> 00:30:38.192 I don't believe that they exist today. 646 00:30:38.192 --> 00:30:40.752 So even if you got 2000 CPOs, which is 647 00:30:40.752 --> 00:30:46.032 kind of the promise we made at Catalyst with 648 00:30:46.032 --> 00:30:51.150 our friends from Workspan, would be a great achievement, 649 00:30:52.450 --> 00:30:56.858 because ten years ago, the 10,000 Chief Customer Officers 650 00:30:56.858 --> 00:31:00.292 did not exist. Four years ago. Right. 651 00:31:00.292 --> 00:31:03.604 So, once again, I think this is moving pretty fast. 652 00:31:03.604 --> 00:31:04.292 Okay. 653 00:31:04.292 --> 00:31:06.858 So, once again, thank you for joining us, Asher. 654 00:31:06.858 --> 00:31:08.184 It sounds like you've got a couple of 655 00:31:08.184 --> 00:31:10.520 very cool pieces of content coming out. 656 00:31:10.520 --> 00:31:12.488 What's the best way to get connected with you? 657 00:31:12.488 --> 00:31:13.304 What's the best way to 658 00:31:13.304 --> 00:31:15.038 get connected with Partnership Leaders? 659 00:31:15.038 --> 00:31:17.874 Yeah, the best way to connect with me is on LinkedIn. 660 00:31:17.874 --> 00:31:21.164 It's Asher Mathew, and the best way to 661 00:31:21.164 --> 00:31:24.882 connect with Partnership Leaders, also through LinkedIn. 662 00:31:24.882 --> 00:31:28.124 Just go to our LinkedIn company page. 663 00:31:28.124 --> 00:31:29.850 It's also called Partnership Leaders. 664 00:31:32.270 --> 00:31:33.392 And you can follow us. 665 00:31:33.392 --> 00:31:36.832 And then as you feel motivated to take the next 666 00:31:36.832 --> 00:31:40.048 step in up leveling yourself and elevating yourself and your 667 00:31:40.048 --> 00:31:41.478 team, then you can apply to be a member. 668 00:31:41.478 --> 00:31:44.404 And we'd love to build this with you. One last thing. 669 00:31:44.404 --> 00:31:45.914 You guys do a lot of events. 670 00:31:45.914 --> 00:31:47.412 You guys bring people together. 671 00:31:47.412 --> 00:31:48.868 When's your next event? 672 00:31:48.868 --> 00:31:53.146 So our next event is on November 14. 673 00:31:53.146 --> 00:31:55.090 It's actually in San Francisco. 674 00:31:56.070 --> 00:31:58.088 And then after that, we have an event in 675 00:31:58.088 --> 00:32:01.860 December in Austin to basically close the year out. 676 00:32:02.710 --> 00:32:04.216 And then we'll kick the year 677 00:32:04.216 --> 00:32:07.906 off at ImpartnerCon in February. 678 00:32:07.906 --> 00:32:09.916 We announced earlier this week that we're actually 679 00:32:09.916 --> 00:32:12.956 building Impartnercon with Impartner, which is something 680 00:32:12.956 --> 00:32:15.868 that, again, no community has ever done before. Right. 681 00:32:15.868 --> 00:32:18.284 But we believe that we need to provide a lot 682 00:32:18.284 --> 00:32:20.652 of connection points for all of us to meet, and 683 00:32:20.652 --> 00:32:24.508 then we build deeper relationships, and then we build and 684 00:32:24.508 --> 00:32:27.930 put those relationships into action, and then we elevate ourselves. 685 00:32:27.930 --> 00:32:28.770 Fantastic. 686 00:32:28.770 --> 00:32:31.364 So again, Asher, thank you for joining us. 687 00:32:31.364 --> 00:32:33.700 Listeners and viewers, thank you for joining us. 688 00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:34.540 Everybody. Have a great day.