Colin Casey (00:00:06):
Welcome to Sober Banter.

Colin Casey (00:00:07):
I am Colin.

Sarah Kate (00:00:08):
And I am Rachel.

Colin Casey (00:00:09):
And today we have a special guest all the way from Canada today.

Sarah Kate (00:00:13):
And this is Sarah Kate.

Sarah Kate (00:00:15):
Yes.

Sarah Kate (00:00:16):
Hello.

Sarah Kate (00:00:18):
You are a sober sommelier.

Sarah Kate (00:00:20):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:00:21):
Yes.

Sarah Kate (00:00:22):
I didn't coin that for myself.

Sarah Kate (00:00:24):
A magazine actually did.

Sarah Kate (00:00:25):
That's what they called me.

Sarah Kate (00:00:27):
And it's stuck since then.

Sarah Kate (00:00:28):
So I'm owning it now.

Sarah Kate (00:00:30):
Sober sommelier.

Sarah Kate (00:00:31):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:00:32):
I got my level two back in the day.

Sarah Kate (00:00:34):
And now I'm sober.

Sarah Kate (00:00:36):
So that doesn't really do me.

Sarah Kate (00:00:37):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:00:38):
And I did my level one and I never went anywhere after that.

Sarah Kate (00:00:41):
So just like, yeah, for true transparency, I'm not, I'm not an official like certified Psalm.

Sarah Kate (00:00:46):
That's, that's why I never coined it for myself.

Sarah Kate (00:00:48):
It was, you know, somebody else sort of said, this is sober Psalm.

Sarah Kate (00:00:51):
Sober Psalm and.

Colin Casey (00:00:52):
Sober Psalm.

Sarah Kate (00:00:53):
To me,

Sarah Kate (00:00:53):
the role of Assam is to connect people in the wine world with wine that they want

Sarah Kate (00:01:01):
to drink.

Sarah Kate (00:01:01):
For me, it's any liquid.

Sarah Kate (00:01:04):
So there is no certification for a sober Assam.

Sarah Kate (00:01:08):
I always appreciated wine.

Sarah Kate (00:01:10):
I was a champion wine drinker.

Sarah Kate (00:01:12):
And I always say that wine got in the way of learning more about wine and actually

Sarah Kate (00:01:17):
doing my certification because there comes a point where

Sarah Kate (00:01:20):
You know,

Sarah Kate (00:01:20):
the you drink too much and you lose the mojo to do the things you need to do in

Sarah Kate (00:01:26):
your life.

Sarah Kate (00:01:26):
And it probably was the universe,

Sarah Kate (00:01:28):
actually,

Sarah Kate (00:01:29):
because had I gotten in my sommelier,

Sarah Kate (00:01:31):
I probably would have never been here today.

Sarah Kate (00:01:33):
Like it would have been a much different path in life.

Sarah Kate (00:01:35):
So but I appreciate the process of making wine,

Sarah Kate (00:01:38):
the agricultural aspect of the drink and the beer and beer and spirits can be made

Sarah Kate (00:01:44):
in a tank.

Sarah Kate (00:01:46):
whereas wine is an agricultural product and in the non-alcoholic space now

Sarah Kate (00:01:49):
everybody complains oh they just can't get the wine right i'm like because it's an

Sarah Kate (00:01:53):
agricultural product don't forget you can't it's very hard to manufacture wine in a

Sarah Kate (00:01:57):
tank like so yeah that's i've always appreciated the winemaking process the beauty

Sarah Kate (00:02:02):
of like pulling the grapes off you know taking the grapes off the vine and pressing

Sarah Kate (00:02:06):
out the juice and fermenting them naturally and

Sarah Kate (00:02:09):
biodynamic and natural wines.

Sarah Kate (00:02:10):
Actually,

Sarah Kate (00:02:11):
I was one of the first people to be talking about that back in the early 2010s,

Sarah Kate (00:02:14):
11,

Sarah Kate (00:02:15):
12s.

Sarah Kate (00:02:15):
And it hadn't been,

Sarah Kate (00:02:16):
it wasn't a thing yet,

Sarah Kate (00:02:17):
but I just loved this idea of like going back to natural winemaking.

Sarah Kate (00:02:21):
And now it's really, everyone talks about it now.

Sarah Kate (00:02:23):
So I honestly,

Sarah Kate (00:02:25):
every wine tour we've ever done when we did Austin,

Sarah Kate (00:02:27):
I always drink too much and I never really appreciated it.

Sarah Kate (00:02:30):
So I had all this knowledge of wine and I was the one just downing the wine like it was water.

Colin Casey (00:02:37):
I only know we were there because there are pictures to prove.

Colin Casey (00:02:40):
There are pictures.

Colin Casey (00:02:41):
That's really the only thing I have.

Sarah Kate (00:02:44):
And it's like, man, I'm so knowledgeable.

Sarah Kate (00:02:46):
And literally my alcoholism did get in the way.

Sarah Kate (00:02:49):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:02:50):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:02:51):
But I also like, let's be real.

Sarah Kate (00:02:53):
The whole winery thing, it's all bullshit.

Sarah Kate (00:02:56):
Like, and I'm saying that from a sober place now.

Sarah Kate (00:02:58):
And I know people listening may not believe that,

Sarah Kate (00:03:00):
but I do feel like the wine marketing and the elegance of being at a winery,

Sarah Kate (00:03:03):
it's all bullshit.

Sarah Kate (00:03:05):
Like,

Sarah Kate (00:03:05):
you're not going to remember the seven or eight wines that you tasted at the winery

Sarah Kate (00:03:09):
because the first one is numbing your taste buds.

Sarah Kate (00:03:12):
And the second one is making you tipsy.

Sarah Kate (00:03:14):
The third one is like taking you out of your,

Sarah Kate (00:03:16):
even your,

Sarah Kate (00:03:17):
your ability to process what you're drinking and assess it.

Sarah Kate (00:03:21):
Like by the fourth or fifth sample, you're,

Sarah Kate (00:03:25):
you're not paying attention to what you're not going to remember unless you're

Sarah Kate (00:03:27):
sitting there taking notes.

Sarah Kate (00:03:28):
Right.

Sarah Kate (00:03:29):
Which is why they spit,

Sarah Kate (00:03:30):
which is why when you're doing that many wine tastings and like you're doing even,

Sarah Kate (00:03:35):
and I always refuse to do that.

Sarah Kate (00:03:37):
I was like, I will not.

Sarah Kate (00:03:38):
I never spit.

Sarah Kate (00:03:39):
I always do everything.

Sarah Kate (00:03:40):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:03:41):
And so that's why I say it's, it's all bullshit.

Sarah Kate (00:03:42):
It's like have, you know, taste our wines.

Sarah Kate (00:03:45):
They're trying to,

Sarah Kate (00:03:45):
they want to sell their wine and they know that everybody's going to come and drink

Sarah Kate (00:03:49):
too much and not remember it.

Sarah Kate (00:03:50):
Like it, I just think it's a, it,

Sarah Kate (00:03:53):
I don't,

Sarah Kate (00:03:53):
I hate to say this,

Sarah Kate (00:03:54):
but it is a bit,

Sarah Kate (00:03:54):
it is a bit,

Sarah Kate (00:03:55):
it's a bit of snobbery and convoluted marketing.

Sarah Kate (00:03:59):
You can't just enjoy it.

Sarah Kate (00:04:00):
You can't enjoy it.

Sarah Kate (00:04:01):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:04:01):
When you're, when the kind of everything's like open to you for sure.

Sarah Kate (00:04:04):
And anyway, so we're, we're, we've gone down the rabbit hole already.

Sarah Kate (00:04:07):
We're only a few minutes in.

Sarah Kate (00:04:08):
I'm sorry.

Sarah Kate (00:04:09):
Well, so let's just an introduction of you, what I have.

Sarah Kate (00:04:13):
You are the founder and creator of

Sarah Kate (00:04:17):
Some good fun and what you kind of have done since 2021.

Sarah Kate (00:04:22):
So we just kind of got in the backstory that, you know, you have a wine background.

Sarah Kate (00:04:26):
That was something that you did connections on.

Sarah Kate (00:04:29):
And now you are in the sobriety world and you're bringing you're like,

Sarah Kate (00:04:33):
I don't have to leave that fun connection of.

Sarah Kate (00:04:37):
mocktail making I can do that in sobriety too that's right how did that start so I

Sarah Kate (00:04:42):
a couple like weird not weird things but a couple of things sort of synergized

Sarah Kate (00:04:46):
together that made me like I gotta change something about this again this has got

Sarah Kate (00:04:50):
to be there's got to be a different life so number one I when I quit uh I so I did

Sarah Kate (00:04:55):
Annie Grace's 30-day alcohol experiment in 2020 April 2020 like before she had her

Sarah Kate (00:04:59):
fancy app and stuff this was like the

Sarah Kate (00:05:01):
old school like log yeah this thing in my login into the like html template

Sarah Kate (00:05:06):
practically like i'm laughing now because it's just so like you can't even access

Sarah Kate (00:05:09):
it anymore anyway i did that and then spent another eight months what i call

Sarah Kate (00:05:13):
rethinking drinking and so rethinking drinking was this time like you know i was

Sarah Kate (00:05:18):
letting myself disconnect i call it like disconnect my neural circuitry from

Sarah Kate (00:05:23):
Alcohol, because I had read her book, I sort of understood what was happening to me.

Sarah Kate (00:05:28):
So I allowed myself the grace of those that time to knowing I wanted to quit.

Sarah Kate (00:05:33):
That was my goal.

Sarah Kate (00:05:34):
That moderation didn't work for me,

Sarah Kate (00:05:35):
but that I was giving myself grace to go big,

Sarah Kate (00:05:38):
long chunks of time without drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:05:40):
And then, you know, we had a wedding anniversary.

Sarah Kate (00:05:43):
We had a, you know, I got in a car accident.

Sarah Kate (00:05:46):
My son got bitten by a dog and something else happened all in one week in that summer of 2020.

Sarah Kate (00:05:50):
And I was like, I'm going to have a bottle of wine.

Sarah Kate (00:05:52):
I immediately regretted it, but like gave myself that grace to be like, you know what?

Sarah Kate (00:05:55):
I'm learning how to handle stress as a mother and

Sarah Kate (00:05:59):
Without alcohol and learning how to do this.

Sarah Kate (00:06:02):
So in that process, I couldn't bear to throw out my wine glasses.

Sarah Kate (00:06:07):
It was really like I couldn't do it.

Sarah Kate (00:06:10):
I'm like, I'm just going to leave them in the cupboard.

Sarah Kate (00:06:11):
And I kept thinking,

Sarah Kate (00:06:13):
well,

Sarah Kate (00:06:13):
if we can make hamburgers out of beef,

Sarah Kate (00:06:15):
then eventually we're going to be able to make really good non-alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:06:17):
Like we're going to be able to like use chemistry to like, you know, make wine.

Sarah Kate (00:06:22):
that doesn't have alcohol in it.

Sarah Kate (00:06:23):
And little did I know at the time that,

Sarah Kate (00:06:25):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:06:25):
I just started looking at the,

Sarah Kate (00:06:28):
the industry was in its infancy and there was already in the UK,

Sarah Kate (00:06:31):
things were starting to be developed,

Sarah Kate (00:06:33):
the spirits and the beer.

Sarah Kate (00:06:33):
And I knew there was stuff at the grocery store,

Sarah Kate (00:06:35):
but I kept holding on to hope that I'd be able to use my one glasses again.

Sarah Kate (00:06:39):
And then I couldn't bear the,

Sarah Kate (00:06:42):
So I couldn't bear the idea of drinking sparkling water for the rest of my life as

Sarah Kate (00:06:47):
my only go-to option.

Sarah Kate (00:06:49):
I couldn't deal with that.

Sarah Kate (00:06:51):
I was like, there's got to be something else.

Sarah Kate (00:06:53):
So I would be in my kitchen making shrubs,

Sarah Kate (00:06:55):
using apple cider vinegar to replicate the zing of a cocktail.

Sarah Kate (00:07:00):
I even ordered, I forget what it's called, a Capuscum Drops.

Sarah Kate (00:07:05):
to try and make my own spirit.

Sarah Kate (00:07:08):
That's way over my head.

Sarah Kate (00:07:09):
Like I started, oh, I need a double boiler.

Sarah Kate (00:07:11):
Oh, I need that.

Sarah Kate (00:07:13):
I need to soak this.

Sarah Kate (00:07:14):
I'm like, forget it.

Sarah Kate (00:07:15):
But I had this plan.

Sarah Kate (00:07:16):
I was like, I'm going to make a cocktail that doesn't have alcohol in it.

Sarah Kate (00:07:20):
So that's how that all kind of came together.

Sarah Kate (00:07:21):
By the time we got to like April 2021,

Sarah Kate (00:07:23):
which was like a year later,

Sarah Kate (00:07:24):
the industry was already starting to grow,

Sarah Kate (00:07:26):
that non-alcoholic drinks industry.

Sarah Kate (00:07:29):
But nobody was writing about the products.

Sarah Kate (00:07:32):
There weren't any mocktail creators on Instagram, really.

Sarah Kate (00:07:35):
There was like one or two, maybe.

Sarah Kate (00:07:37):
Christine from On The Mocks was around.

Sarah Kate (00:07:38):
And so I was like, I've got to share with people like all these cool things like...

Sarah Kate (00:07:43):
I always say the foundation of some good,

Sarah Kate (00:07:45):
clean fun is like,

Sarah Kate (00:07:46):
ladies,

Sarah Kate (00:07:47):
holy shit,

Sarah Kate (00:07:48):
we can have a gin and tonic without alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:07:52):
It's so like that's that's the foundation of this is like and then move to like,

Sarah Kate (00:07:57):
oh,

Sarah Kate (00:07:57):
holy shit,

Sarah Kate (00:07:58):
ladies,

Sarah Kate (00:07:58):
we can have a glass of really great non-alcoholic red wine or we have a glass of

Sarah Kate (00:08:01):
red wine without alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:08:03):
Right.

Sarah Kate (00:08:04):
And that's, that's been a long progression, but that's how it all started.

Sarah Kate (00:08:06):
I was like,

Sarah Kate (00:08:07):
I really want to share with the world that,

Sarah Kate (00:08:09):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:08:10):
at the beginning,

Sarah Kate (00:08:11):
it was like,

Sarah Kate (00:08:12):
I want to share with the world that I feel like I'd be duped my whole life.

Sarah Kate (00:08:14):
And that softened that sort of that anger softened.

Sarah Kate (00:08:17):
I think a lot of people who go who they get sober,

Sarah Kate (00:08:20):
they've read all the books,

Sarah Kate (00:08:22):
and they're fucking angry.

Sarah Kate (00:08:24):
They're so angry that they like, and I had this rage, like I had been

Sarah Kate (00:08:30):
lied to my whole life and I was like so when I started Some Good Clean Fun I really

Sarah Kate (00:08:36):
was it was a lot of work to not

Sarah Kate (00:08:39):
put that rage like bring out that rage because I wanted to just always be shouting

Sarah Kate (00:08:43):
at people like you're being doomed by alcohol marketing you're being my too like

Sarah Kate (00:08:49):
but nobody wants to hear that they weren't ready to hear that so I really wanted to

Sarah Kate (00:08:53):
I wanted it to be a space and a place where people could go and find exciting

Sarah Kate (00:08:57):
things to drink if they were sober curious sober always sober never just interested

Sarah Kate (00:09:02):
in

Sarah Kate (00:09:03):
like having a drink that doesn't have alcohol in it but also to start building that

Sarah Kate (00:09:06):
message from like a non-judgmental positive place that you you can be present in

Sarah Kate (00:09:12):
life and enjoy something elevated to drink it doesn't have to have alcohol in it

Sarah Kate (00:09:18):
because i i mean the alcohol took over everything and i mean by the time i stopped

Sarah Kate (00:09:22):
drinking it wasn't even for like

Sarah Kate (00:09:26):
when I was in my early twenties, I liked all the fruity fun drinks.

Sarah Kate (00:09:29):
I loved baking.

Sarah Kate (00:09:30):
I love bartending.

Sarah Kate (00:09:31):
I love trying to make new cocktails.

Sarah Kate (00:09:34):
And by the end of it, I really just truly wanted the alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:09:37):
I did not care what it tasted like.

Sarah Kate (00:09:38):
I just wanted it to survive.

Sarah Kate (00:09:40):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:09:41):
And it's like, almost like you're trying to get normal.

Sarah Kate (00:09:44):
It took years.

Colin Casey (00:09:46):
But yeah,

Colin Casey (00:09:47):
something like just calm back down or get to normal so you can get back to thinking

Colin Casey (00:09:52):
clearly.

Colin Casey (00:09:53):
And you needed so much alcohol just to get to that.

Sarah Kate (00:09:55):
And I think that that's where I get the fear of the mocktails or.

Sarah Kate (00:10:00):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:10:01):
And I think I'm at the point where I like drinking a mocktail I don't think is

Sarah Kate (00:10:04):
going to make me crave alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:10:05):
Like I know what alcohol does to my body.

Colin Casey (00:10:08):
Because in the beginning, I know you were really afraid of it.

Colin Casey (00:10:11):
And I think I was similar to you.

Colin Casey (00:10:12):
I just I couldn't stand the fact like,

Colin Casey (00:10:15):
OK,

Colin Casey (00:10:15):
my only two choices for the rest of the life can't be soda and Topo Chico.

Rachel Casey (00:10:20):
See, I didn't say that.

Colin Casey (00:10:22):
More than you go.

Colin Casey (00:10:23):
Yeah, I was like, I need something more.

Colin Casey (00:10:25):
And so I got, and I haven't used it.

Colin Casey (00:10:27):
And just because it takes, I feel like sometimes a lot of upkeep.

Colin Casey (00:10:30):
What's the SodaStream?

Colin Casey (00:10:32):
Yeah, the SodaStream.

Sarah Kate (00:10:33):
I agree.

Sarah Kate (00:10:34):
Oh my God, I agree.

Sarah Kate (00:10:35):
Having to keep the tubes filled all the time.

Sarah Kate (00:10:38):
Just like, God damn it.

Sarah Kate (00:10:39):
I'm just going to buy a case of a beer.

Colin Casey (00:10:40):
Exactly.

Colin Casey (00:10:41):
So I did that for a month or two.

Colin Casey (00:10:43):
And then I was like, oh, this upkeep.

Colin Casey (00:10:44):
And then the yeah, so it was just too much.

Colin Casey (00:10:48):
And that's probably the alcoholic in me.

Colin Casey (00:10:50):
It's like, I just need an easier process.

Colin Casey (00:10:52):
Just give it to me.

Colin Casey (00:10:53):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:10:54):
And there is so many things that you can just crack open now that.

Sarah Kate (00:10:58):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:10:59):
Exactly.

Sarah Kate (00:11:00):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:11:00):
Like fill the what's that called?

Sarah Kate (00:11:01):
Like scratch the itch.

Sarah Kate (00:11:02):
It scratches.

Sarah Kate (00:11:03):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:11:03):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:11:05):
And in those kind of the big thing is just relaxing with some sort of drink.

Colin Casey (00:11:09):
Now I drink a lot because there's so many more flavor waters out there that I'll do too.

Colin Casey (00:11:15):
But usually I'll only do like the NA beers if we're out on vacation or something like that.

Sarah Kate (00:11:20):
How long have you two been sober?

Sarah Kate (00:11:23):
So we got sober on the same day on November 22nd, 2021.

Sarah Kate (00:11:28):
Amazing!

Sarah Kate (00:11:29):
So you're just right behind me.

Sarah Kate (00:11:32):
Really, my truly last drink was January 2022.

Sarah Kate (00:11:34):
So I was like, you guys are on the same...

Sarah Kate (00:11:37):
window yeah he didn't really plan to stay sober necessarily in the beginning he was

Sarah Kate (00:11:41):
just waiting for me to crack and i was like again i really just harped into i had a

Colin Casey (00:11:48):
problem well we did a lot of sober octobers or dry january never finished i never

Colin Casey (00:11:52):
finished i just waited for her to tap out and then i'd be like okay i guess we're

Colin Casey (00:11:56):
back to drinking yeah 20 but she never tapped out

Sarah Kate (00:12:00):
Do you find now, because we're kind of at the same stage.

Sarah Kate (00:12:04):
Now I find fast forward to now that I don't even think about it.

Sarah Kate (00:12:09):
Like I don't even, there's not even an itch and urge like five o'clock comes and goes.

Sarah Kate (00:12:14):
I barely ever have that.

Sarah Kate (00:12:16):
Like, Oh my God, I need to have a glass of wine or we're out at family dinners.

Sarah Kate (00:12:19):
People are, my, my husband's from Russia.

Sarah Kate (00:12:21):
So they drink a lot of vodka.

Sarah Kate (00:12:23):
So you got to go over for dinner and they're like, you know,

Sarah Kate (00:12:26):
we were,

Sarah Kate (00:12:26):
I was over there the other night and there was friends from Miami in,

Sarah Kate (00:12:30):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:12:31):
so they're,

Sarah Kate (00:12:31):
they're drinking tequila shots with dinner in front of like 11 kids.

Sarah Kate (00:12:35):
And I'm like, in my mind, I was like, you guys are so fucking gross.

Sarah Kate (00:12:39):
Like you're, this is so gross that you're setting this tone.

Sarah Kate (00:12:43):
But I was like, I brought my non-alcoholic wine.

Sarah Kate (00:12:45):
I don't know if you can see behind me, but

Sarah Kate (00:12:47):
This is my favorite of my life.

Sarah Kate (00:12:50):
It's called the Ronimo.

Sarah Kate (00:12:51):
It's from Austria.

Sarah Kate (00:12:52):
So I had a little mini bottle with me and I was just like making a big deal in

Sarah Kate (00:12:56):
front of the kids that I was drinking non-alcoholic wine because I wanted them to

Sarah Kate (00:12:59):
see that like there are options.

Sarah Kate (00:13:01):
But there, yeah, they're taking tequila shots and it doesn't bother me.

Sarah Kate (00:13:03):
I don't want the shot.

Sarah Kate (00:13:04):
I can smell it and I'm like, no, thanks.

Sarah Kate (00:13:06):
There's a so...

Sarah Kate (00:13:08):
asking you this like do you have that lightness also yeah I don't crave it at all

Sarah Kate (00:13:12):
like I just don't and it doesn't lay out when I see people drinking like that it's

Sarah Kate (00:13:17):
it is cringe it's very like and I know that would have been me it's not cringe and

Sarah Kate (00:13:21):
like I'm judging it's like I would have been the one

Sarah Kate (00:13:26):
pulling people to take the shots it's just yeah it's like yeah i just am really

Sarah Kate (00:13:31):
glad it's not me but yeah it does look like oh that is not a great example

Sarah Kate (00:13:36):
especially with kids around and like but again i mean we've seen it and it's like

Sarah Kate (00:13:41):
that i've probably been there too before i got sober you know i was the same person

Sarah Kate (00:13:45):
so i have no pull towards it yeah

Colin Casey (00:13:49):
I really miss,

Colin Casey (00:13:50):
I think,

Colin Casey (00:13:50):
is the camaraderie of going to like a happy hour or a bar,

Colin Casey (00:13:55):
but only in the first like 10 minutes.

Colin Casey (00:13:57):
Because then after that,

Colin Casey (00:13:58):
once everybody's moved on to their second,

Colin Casey (00:14:00):
third drink,

Colin Casey (00:14:01):
that's when it becomes more of a shit show.

Colin Casey (00:14:02):
It's like, okay, I can dip out now.

Colin Casey (00:14:05):
But I still go to the happy hour places or when we have a work happy hour and I'll

Colin Casey (00:14:11):
just grab,

Colin Casey (00:14:12):
you know,

Colin Casey (00:14:12):
a non-alcoholic beer or some flavored water and no one really knows or cares.

Sarah Kate (00:14:17):
Yeah, nobody cares anymore.

Sarah Kate (00:14:19):
As I said,

Sarah Kate (00:14:19):
I just enjoy leaving and not like making an ass to myself or saying something that

Sarah Kate (00:14:23):
I shouldn't have said or like doing something that I was sloppy.

Sarah Kate (00:14:27):
And just like,

Sarah Kate (00:14:27):
because by the end,

Sarah Kate (00:14:28):
I mean,

Sarah Kate (00:14:28):
again,

Sarah Kate (00:14:29):
I was like falling down drinking of like,

Sarah Kate (00:14:31):
couldn't keep myself together.

Sarah Kate (00:14:33):
It's just, it wasn't pretty.

Sarah Kate (00:14:35):
It never, it never is.

Sarah Kate (00:14:37):
And it's,

Sarah Kate (00:14:38):
I always say like how,

Sarah Kate (00:14:39):
I always think about just how crazy it is that we're still in this situation.

Sarah Kate (00:14:44):
with all the information out there and how connected we all are,

Sarah Kate (00:14:48):
there's still millions of people out there who do this every weekend,

Sarah Kate (00:14:52):
even though we all know,

Sarah Kate (00:14:54):
like it still feels,

Sarah Kate (00:14:57):
it still feels almost like we're part of a secret club,

Sarah Kate (00:14:59):
even though so many more people now are sober.

Sarah Kate (00:15:01):
So many more people are,

Sarah Kate (00:15:02):
especially in my cohort of women who are in their forties,

Sarah Kate (00:15:05):
we all know we can't drink anymore because of perimenopause.

Sarah Kate (00:15:08):
It has nothing to do with like, you know, Oh, we're getting drunk and blacking out now.

Sarah Kate (00:15:11):
It's like,

Sarah Kate (00:15:12):
Oh God, if we don't want to have hot flashes and all that stuff, like stop drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:15:16):
So,

Sarah Kate (00:15:16):
yeah,

Sarah Kate (00:15:17):
but it still feels like we're in a secret club that,

Sarah Kate (00:15:19):
that people are still going out and drinking heavily and like,

Sarah Kate (00:15:23):
and haven't gotten that message yet.

Sarah Kate (00:15:25):
And it's,

Sarah Kate (00:15:25):
it boggles my mind with all the connectedness we have and consumer information and

Sarah Kate (00:15:30):
the things that are talked about on social people still don't,

Sarah Kate (00:15:33):
Don't want to believe that it's not fun to get the blackout drunk,

Sarah Kate (00:15:38):
be messy,

Sarah Kate (00:15:39):
sloppy,

Sarah Kate (00:15:39):
to have anxiety,

Sarah Kate (00:15:40):
to be worried about what you said the other night and the night before or whatever.

Sarah Kate (00:15:43):
And that's still it still feels like we're in the infancy of the movement,

Sarah Kate (00:15:48):
even though there's now so many more people.

Sarah Kate (00:15:50):
We're still we haven't even touched this or scratched the surface of how many

Sarah Kate (00:15:54):
people ahead of us there are to like figure this out.

Sarah Kate (00:15:58):
That's true.

Sarah Kate (00:15:59):
See,

Sarah Kate (00:15:59):
there's a part of me that's on social that I feel like I'm seeing so many more like

Sarah Kate (00:16:05):
sober,

Sarah Kate (00:16:06):
even Instagram accounts or podcasts.

Sarah Kate (00:16:09):
And I'm like, oh my God, am I like behind the, was I like, I feel like

Sarah Kate (00:16:15):
originally i had said in 2024 even i'm like i think i got sober before it was cool

Sarah Kate (00:16:19):
like i was desperate i had to and now it's like there are like you said mocktails

Colin Casey (00:16:24):
there are not alcohol because well denver has sober breweries yeah colorado and

Sarah Kate (00:16:30):
other because i don't remember i mean athletic was like just getting started at

Sarah Kate (00:16:35):
least or it was i was just hearing about it

Sarah Kate (00:16:38):
I think in 22, by the end of it.

Sarah Kate (00:16:41):
And I know it's by some sober guys who created it.

Sarah Kate (00:16:44):
Because I'd done Recovery Elevator for a little bit.

Sarah Kate (00:16:48):
I didn't do the Annie Grace,

Sarah Kate (00:16:49):
but my therapist very much recommends that book to anyone struggling.

Sarah Kate (00:16:53):
She is all about this naked mind.

Sarah Kate (00:16:54):
She is a huge Annie Grace man.

Sarah Kate (00:16:56):
Yeah, it's it's I always say it's the Bible.

Sarah Kate (00:16:59):
Like it's the Bible of people trying to get sober.

Sarah Kate (00:17:02):
I know that, you know, there are other books out there.

Sarah Kate (00:17:04):
But as a tome, that ship truly shifts.

Sarah Kate (00:17:09):
You,

Sarah Kate (00:17:09):
like Alan Carr's book is very much about the logistics of alcohol,

Sarah Kate (00:17:14):
how it affects your body.

Sarah Kate (00:17:16):
But the way Annie Grace gets into the marketing,

Sarah Kate (00:17:19):
the research,

Sarah Kate (00:17:20):
the breaking,

Sarah Kate (00:17:21):
like breaking apart the studies that aren't real,

Sarah Kate (00:17:25):
who sponsored them,

Sarah Kate (00:17:26):
like about red wine being good for you,

Sarah Kate (00:17:28):
for instance.

Sarah Kate (00:17:28):
Like the way that she does that really,

Sarah Kate (00:17:30):
really shifts your belief in,

Sarah Kate (00:17:35):
and that's why I say it's like the Bible because it's like,

Sarah Kate (00:17:38):
So there's a bit of a spiritual shift in your mind when you read it and start to see the world.

Sarah Kate (00:17:46):
That's the difference between her book and Alan Carr, for instance, are the other books.

Sarah Kate (00:17:49):
Not that they're bad books.

Sarah Kate (00:17:50):
People should read them all.

Sarah Kate (00:17:51):
Read them all.

Sarah Kate (00:17:53):
If you're trying to get sober, read them all.

Colin Casey (00:17:55):
Well, what prompted you to want to get so?

Colin Casey (00:17:57):
Was it a specific moment or a slow buildup through time?

Sarah Kate (00:18:01):
There's a whole bunch of things.

Sarah Kate (00:18:02):
Like, I never had... Like, I didn't hit rock bottom.

Sarah Kate (00:18:05):
I had this really kind of boring story of just, like, I overdrank.

Sarah Kate (00:18:08):
I was a mom.

Sarah Kate (00:18:10):
I had a couple of toxic work situations.

Sarah Kate (00:18:13):
And I went from, like, two glass of the wine at night, maybe three on the weekends.

Sarah Kate (00:18:18):
Like,

Sarah Kate (00:18:19):
I was running long distance at the time and stuff to,

Sarah Kate (00:18:21):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:18:21):
practically overnight drinking at least a bottle,

Sarah Kate (00:18:23):
sometimes more,

Sarah Kate (00:18:25):
to cope.

Sarah Kate (00:18:26):
And I just... Though you're just...

Sarah Kate (00:18:30):
This is I hardly ever tell the story because it's almost borderline embarrassing

Sarah Kate (00:18:33):
for me to tell the story that the moment that clicked for me,

Sarah Kate (00:18:38):
I'm like,

Sarah Kate (00:18:38):
you're in deep shit right now,

Sarah Kate (00:18:40):
Sarah,

Sarah Kate (00:18:41):
like you got to get out of this.

Sarah Kate (00:18:43):
I was sitting in my bed one night and it was like after 12 probably I'd had a lot to drink.

Sarah Kate (00:18:48):
And it was just,

Sarah Kate (00:18:48):
I was in my room probably trying to,

Sarah Kate (00:18:50):
I don't remember,

Sarah Kate (00:18:51):
I was probably trying to read something.

Sarah Kate (00:18:53):
Like, who reads after a bottle and a half of wine?

Sarah Kate (00:18:55):
Anyway, trying to keep up the appearances or whatever.

Sarah Kate (00:18:59):
And I lost my sense of smell.

Sarah Kate (00:19:02):
And it had happened,

Sarah Kate (00:19:04):
it had almost happened a few times before that where I had stopped being able to,

Sarah Kate (00:19:08):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:19:09):
it wasn't that I lost my sense of smell.

Sarah Kate (00:19:10):
It was just, like, this weird sensation where...

Sarah Kate (00:19:13):
the world suddenly smelled different.

Sarah Kate (00:19:15):
It was almost like I couldn't smell anything.

Sarah Kate (00:19:18):
And that was where I was like, oh no, girl, what are you doing to yourself?

Sarah Kate (00:19:25):
This is crazy that you're letting this...

Sarah Kate (00:19:28):
That's when I really was like,

Sarah Kate (00:19:31):
oh shoot,

Sarah Kate (00:19:31):
I think I have a problem.

Sarah Kate (00:19:34):
I knew I had a problem.

Sarah Kate (00:19:34):
I've always, for years, I knew.

Sarah Kate (00:19:36):
I was that person Googling, am I an alcoholic and doing those...

Sarah Kate (00:19:40):
all they all tell you they'll tell you yeah you should quit drinking you should

Sarah Kate (00:19:43):
stop drinking and i was somehow googling yeah it's like you know that was the thing

Sarah Kate (00:19:50):
that was the thing that i was really and that happened like you know just before

Sarah Kate (00:19:53):
christmas that year and then i a friend of mine had an open bar christmas party

Sarah Kate (00:19:56):
with like a server and everything like making drinks so that they could enjoy their

Sarah Kate (00:20:00):
party and i was like i'm just gonna have one

Sarah Kate (00:20:03):
and my husband had to come pick me up like I couldn't walk home at two o'clock in

Sarah Kate (00:20:06):
the morning like he had to leave the kids at home and walk to get me because I was

Sarah Kate (00:20:10):
like I'm afraid to walk home on my own I'm too drunk and he was mad as a hornet and

Sarah Kate (00:20:14):
I think I probably fell asleep on the bathroom floor that night I don't really

Sarah Kate (00:20:18):
quite remember if that was two separate events or one but that all happened around

Sarah Kate (00:20:22):
the same time and then we've been there yeah so with that January I was like

Sarah Kate (00:20:28):
I don't think I tried dry January.

Sarah Kate (00:20:29):
I didn't even really know.

Sarah Kate (00:20:30):
I knew about dry January, but I was like busy with life stuff.

Sarah Kate (00:20:33):
And I don't think I, but that's when I started reading.

Sarah Kate (00:20:35):
I don't know if we have time for this quick story, but I have a lot of stories.

Sarah Kate (00:20:40):
I have a lot of stories guys.

Sarah Kate (00:20:41):
So you could have me on three times and I wouldn't cover it.

Sarah Kate (00:20:45):
We're here.

Sarah Kate (00:20:46):
My fight.

Sarah Kate (00:20:46):
Well,

Sarah Kate (00:20:46):
I always laugh about this because so in that January,

Sarah Kate (00:20:50):
I downloaded an app called it's,

Sarah Kate (00:20:53):
I think it's still around.

Sarah Kate (00:20:54):
It's called drinks counter.

Sarah Kate (00:20:56):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:20:58):
And I was like, I'm going to count my drinks.

Sarah Kate (00:21:00):
And the funny thing is we all know we're drinking how much we're drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:21:04):
We all know exactly how much we drink every day.

Sarah Kate (00:21:06):
You don't need to count, right?

Sarah Kate (00:21:08):
Like we know we're drinking more than the seven you're supposed to.

Sarah Kate (00:21:11):
Now it's less than that.

Sarah Kate (00:21:12):
But at the time it was like still like seven drinks a week.

Sarah Kate (00:21:14):
Like, you know, you're drinking what, like, what was the purpose of this drink counter?

Sarah Kate (00:21:18):
Maybe moderation probably.

Sarah Kate (00:21:19):
And I hadn't started reading Annie's book yet.

Sarah Kate (00:21:21):
So the thing, what happened was,

Sarah Kate (00:21:24):
That actually ended up saving my life because they hook you up in that app with a

Sarah Kate (00:21:30):
random community group.

Sarah Kate (00:21:31):
They put you in a pod with like a virtual pod in a message group with like eight or

Sarah Kate (00:21:36):
10 or 15 other people who are also using the app to count their drinks.

Sarah Kate (00:21:40):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:21:41):
And it's like a sober support.

Sarah Kate (00:21:43):
It's like an AA meeting, but in not a meeting, but it's like an AA support group in this app.

Sarah Kate (00:21:48):
And it wasn't helpful for a lot of people.

Sarah Kate (00:21:51):
Like I,

Sarah Kate (00:21:51):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:21:52):
there was one woman who would,

Sarah Kate (00:21:54):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:21:54):
she'd log in and be like,

Sarah Kate (00:21:55):
I'm at work right now.

Sarah Kate (00:21:56):
I'm a nurse and I, I'm drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:21:57):
Like I had to take a little mini shot of Bailey's cause I couldn't get through my shift.

Sarah Kate (00:22:02):
And I'm just like, what do you say to that?

Sarah Kate (00:22:03):
Like when you're not a couch drink one, count one.

Sarah Kate (00:22:07):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:22:08):
Like it's like count your drinks anyway.

Sarah Kate (00:22:09):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:22:11):
at some point in the chat, some guy chimed in.

Sarah Kate (00:22:13):
He's like, I've been alcohol free for 45 days and I'm feeling great.

Sarah Kate (00:22:16):
And everybody's like, how did you do it?

Sarah Kate (00:22:19):
And he's like, oh, you should read this naked mind.

Sarah Kate (00:22:21):
And I was like, I don't even know what that is, but okay.

Sarah Kate (00:22:24):
Like I trusted this guy.

Sarah Kate (00:22:25):
Like by then it was like February.

Sarah Kate (00:22:27):
So that's around the time when I started, when I read this naked mind and,

Sarah Kate (00:22:31):
I had planned to,

Sarah Kate (00:22:33):
I planned my date when I was going to start the 30 day alcohol free experiment.

Sarah Kate (00:22:36):
So COVID lockdown in Ontario started March 13th.

Sarah Kate (00:22:42):
And I knew I was doing Annie's program starting April 6th.

Sarah Kate (00:22:45):
That was my day.

Sarah Kate (00:22:46):
I was giving myself a month because I think it was March 6th.

Sarah Kate (00:22:49):
I said, I'm going to give myself a month to get ready for this.

Sarah Kate (00:22:53):
And at the time, everybody's like, oh, it's going to be COVID is going to be over in two weeks.

Sarah Kate (00:22:56):
The pandemic is going to, you know, we'll all be out of lockdown in a couple of weeks.

Sarah Kate (00:22:58):
Right.

Sarah Kate (00:22:58):
So in the middle of the lockdown, I started this 30 day alcohol free program.

Sarah Kate (00:23:02):
And I believe that that was one of the main reasons I was successful,

Sarah Kate (00:23:06):
because you could either go two ways when you're locked down.

Sarah Kate (00:23:11):
You can either drink too much from loneliness,

Sarah Kate (00:23:15):
whatever,

Sarah Kate (00:23:15):
from,

Sarah Kate (00:23:16):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:23:16):
the stress of being locked down.

Sarah Kate (00:23:18):
Right?

Sarah Kate (00:23:18):
That's where we were.

Sarah Kate (00:23:20):
Yeah, a lot of people were like that.

Sarah Kate (00:23:23):
For me,

Sarah Kate (00:23:23):
though,

Sarah Kate (00:23:23):
I think because I'd already decided that I was going to quit,

Sarah Kate (00:23:27):
I had no social pressure to pressure me to drink.

Sarah Kate (00:23:35):
I was like, I hate the algorithm on Instagram so much these days.

Sarah Kate (00:23:38):
But at that, you know, back then, all you had to do was say uninterested.

Sarah Kate (00:23:42):
So anytime somebody posted something about like that they were drinking during the

Sarah Kate (00:23:45):
pandemic,

Sarah Kate (00:23:46):
I was just like not interested.

Sarah Kate (00:23:47):
This post made me uncomfortable over and over again.

Sarah Kate (00:23:50):
And eventually my feed was just positive things,

Sarah Kate (00:23:52):
how to help your children learn in school and like all those things,

Sarah Kate (00:23:54):
right?

Sarah Kate (00:23:55):
It was a blessing in disguise.

Sarah Kate (00:23:56):
And the pandemic was terrible for everyone.

Sarah Kate (00:24:00):
but I was able to school my children.

Sarah Kate (00:24:02):
I was able to run, partially run my business.

Sarah Kate (00:24:04):
I started some good, clean fun.

Sarah Kate (00:24:06):
I was present and I look back now and I feel so like it didn't happen,

Sarah Kate (00:24:13):
but it could have happened that I blacked out all of the pandemic and missed that

Sarah Kate (00:24:20):
precious time with my kids.

Sarah Kate (00:24:21):
Like I'm not a, I'm not a mom's mom.

Sarah Kate (00:24:24):
Like I'm not a

Sarah Kate (00:24:25):
Oh, honey, I'm going to make your sandwich for you, and that brings me so much joy.

Sarah Kate (00:24:28):
I'm like, God, you need another sandwich?

Sarah Kate (00:24:30):
It sucks.

Sarah Kate (00:24:32):
It sucks.

Sarah Kate (00:24:34):
Like, I love you kids, but God damn it.

Sarah Kate (00:24:36):
I keep having to make your lunch for you.

Sarah Kate (00:24:38):
But during the pandemic, no more snacks.

Rachel Casey (00:24:41):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:24:43):
It was nice because I was so present and really enjoyed that time with them that

Sarah Kate (00:24:49):
I'm like,

Sarah Kate (00:24:49):
I'm never going to get that back.

Sarah Kate (00:24:51):
My son was in grade three and my daughter was in grade six when the pandemic started.

Sarah Kate (00:24:54):
So if you can imagine like what a prime time, like we went for bike rides.

Sarah Kate (00:24:57):
We got lost a few times in the woods.

Sarah Kate (00:24:59):
Like it was like really fun.

Sarah Kate (00:25:02):
And yeah,

Sarah Kate (00:25:03):
that's kind of what anyway sorry the question you asked me so many minutes ago was

Sarah Kate (00:25:06):
like how did I start deciding to not drink and that was the story I was like sick

Sarah Kate (00:25:11):
of my own bullshit worried about my health and I wanted and you know once the

Sarah Kate (00:25:15):
pandemic started and I started seeing the benefit of like being clear-headed of

Sarah Kate (00:25:19):
being with my kids uh and like having that time being present I was like I don't

Sarah Kate (00:25:24):
want to go back like it that's that was sort of the it all came together the

Sarah Kate (00:25:28):
universe was like helping me

Colin Casey (00:25:30):
Well,

Colin Casey (00:25:30):
it seems like that became almost your new addiction was being present for the first

Colin Casey (00:25:34):
time for your kids.

Rachel Casey (00:25:35):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:25:36):
Have they ever mentioned anything kind of like before that?

Colin Casey (00:25:39):
Because I feel like we were a little lucky because Evan was two when we decided to get sober.

Colin Casey (00:25:45):
So I don't know if he really he doesn't really remember.

Colin Casey (00:25:49):
I know I'm subconsciously in the back way back of his mind.

Colin Casey (00:25:53):
He probably does remember parents drinking.

Colin Casey (00:25:56):
But for the most of his life, I mean, we've been sober.

Sarah Kate (00:26:00):
If he would have been now, I mean, he would literally be like, why is mommy always napping?

Sarah Kate (00:26:05):
Like, because I would, I would drink till I passed out or.

Colin Casey (00:26:08):
Cause he's almost six now.

Sarah Kate (00:26:10):
If he didn't put into it himself,

Sarah Kate (00:26:11):
because if I would have blacked out and it were on the counter or cause we were bad

Sarah Kate (00:26:15):
out cleaning up,

Sarah Kate (00:26:15):
we'd leave handles on the counter.

Sarah Kate (00:26:17):
And we always had to make sure that was in stock.

Sarah Kate (00:26:19):
Like, I don't even know how we would be able to afford all this stuff.

Sarah Kate (00:26:22):
Like, we'd be like, Evan had bare minimum shit.

Sarah Kate (00:26:25):
Like, he would not get all these extra Legos, because that would be James.

Colin Casey (00:26:28):
He had so many toys.

Colin Casey (00:26:29):
Because all the beer money's gone to Evan's toy farm, basically.

Sarah Kate (00:26:34):
And I'm like...

Sarah Kate (00:26:36):
I mean, we probably would have made it.

Sarah Kate (00:26:38):
Obviously, we always find a way to make it work.

Sarah Kate (00:26:40):
We didn't necessarily hit bottom either.

Sarah Kate (00:26:42):
You know what?

Sarah Kate (00:26:42):
It's not like we lost car, home, job.

Sarah Kate (00:26:44):
But I lost my feel like my soul.

Sarah Kate (00:26:47):
Like, I mean, I didn't.

Sarah Kate (00:26:49):
All I cared about was drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:26:50):
And that was it.

Sarah Kate (00:26:51):
I didn't care.

Sarah Kate (00:26:52):
about much and like all my thing was like how can i get someone to watch this baby

Sarah Kate (00:26:57):
who wants you know milk and i'm supposed to be doing this tummy and i do this tummy

Sarah Kate (00:27:02):
time and i'm like oh look we can roll on the floor together and like i can start

Sarah Kate (00:27:06):
drinking at like one or two because he has a nap from like three to four but if he

Sarah Kate (00:27:10):
wakes up early i'm gonna get angry and yeah oh that's a really sad timing but it's

Sarah Kate (00:27:14):
yeah it's like you're constantly living under the the like

Sarah Kate (00:27:17):
oh my God, I used to have a term for this and I forget what I used to call it.

Sarah Kate (00:27:20):
It's five o'clock somewhere.

Sarah Kate (00:27:21):
It's five o'clock somewhere.

Sarah Kate (00:27:23):
It's like the stress of like trying to figure out and manipulate time to make sure

Sarah Kate (00:27:28):
that we can have a drink when you need to have a drink,

Sarah Kate (00:27:30):
right?

Sarah Kate (00:27:30):
Like, and I, yeah, I was kind of like, luckily I was employed.

Sarah Kate (00:27:34):
So it was, I wasn't drinking on the job.

Sarah Kate (00:27:36):
I wasn't, you know, it was always after five o'clock or on the weekends.

Sarah Kate (00:27:39):
And that's like,

Sarah Kate (00:27:40):
I used to think that was like this.

Sarah Kate (00:27:41):
I was safe.

Sarah Kate (00:27:42):
I wasn't an alcoholic because and I don't consider myself still an alcoholic.

Sarah Kate (00:27:45):
But I know a lot of people would argue with that.

Sarah Kate (00:27:48):
But I didn't go through that, like the typical like AA recovery.

Sarah Kate (00:27:50):
But I always felt like, well, everybody else is drinking in the evenings and on the weekends.

Sarah Kate (00:27:54):
I'm fine.

Sarah Kate (00:27:54):
I'm not like drinking when I get up in the morning.

Sarah Kate (00:27:56):
I'm not drinking on the job.

Sarah Kate (00:27:57):
I can get through my day.

Sarah Kate (00:27:58):
I'm like working out of the gym.

Sarah Kate (00:28:00):
Like so like high functioning, high functioning gray area drinker is kind of like

Sarah Kate (00:28:03):
If I had to have a light bulb.

Sarah Kate (00:28:04):
I feel like that two get marketed to the most.

Sarah Kate (00:28:07):
Functioning?

Sarah Kate (00:28:07):
Yeah, functioning, doing well.

Sarah Kate (00:28:09):
That's how they get the money.

Sarah Kate (00:28:10):
They're not marketing to the people that are homeless and on the street that have gone.

Sarah Kate (00:28:13):
Because it's progressive.

Sarah Kate (00:28:15):
It's preparing further and further.

Colin Casey (00:28:17):
Because you're like, oh, I can handle two shots.

Sarah Kate (00:28:19):
And we don't think that there's one way to recover.

Sarah Kate (00:28:22):
And I think that that's the blessing of the social media and places like Substack,

Sarah Kate (00:28:27):
places like Instagram,

Sarah Kate (00:28:28):
that there are...

Sarah Kate (00:28:30):
so many different ways to recover you do not have to go that it's like it used to

Sarah Kate (00:28:34):
be aa was the one program out there and it's like oh if you don't go to aa you're

Sarah Kate (00:28:39):
gonna be unhappy and while i did go to aa and aa really did help give me structure

Sarah Kate (00:28:44):
it got me to where you know i became to a point i wanted to grow more and there is

Sarah Kate (00:28:51):
a little bit of a box of aa and again thankful i'm

Sarah Kate (00:28:57):
saved my life i mean the step really did help me at least get a good look at like

Sarah Kate (00:29:01):
what was happening yeah but i don't believe that that's the only way to get sober i

Sarah Kate (00:29:05):
think there's

Sarah Kate (00:29:06):
Just like you had said,

Sarah Kate (00:29:07):
even if you don't want to use the word alcoholic,

Sarah Kate (00:29:09):
like saying,

Sarah Kate (00:29:09):
I don't like the way I feel when I drink and I don't feel like I can say no.

Sarah Kate (00:29:14):
You know, don't matter how much you are drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:29:16):
That's enough.

Sarah Kate (00:29:16):
That's enough.

Sarah Kate (00:29:17):
I want to change it.

Sarah Kate (00:29:18):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:29:18):
Like it's enough to raise your hand and be like, I, I need to change.

Sarah Kate (00:29:22):
And I think where people get stuck is that especially change.

Sarah Kate (00:29:27):
I'm in,

Sarah Kate (00:29:27):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:29:28):
I'm in a,

Sarah Kate (00:29:28):
I want to say I'm Gen X,

Sarah Kate (00:29:29):
but I'm also,

Sarah Kate (00:29:29):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:29:30):
I'm in that xenial age group where I'm,

Sarah Kate (00:29:32):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:29:33):
a super,

Sarah Kate (00:29:33):
super young Gen X and almost a millennial,

Sarah Kate (00:29:36):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:29:36):
just at the gap there.

Sarah Kate (00:29:37):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:29:39):
So, yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:29:40):
Like, I think we were sort of raised by parents who were very...

Sarah Kate (00:29:46):
conservative strict not everybody but i feel like there was a certain

Sarah Kate (00:29:50):
traditionalism to our parents generation that you you can't ask for help like it's

Sarah Kate (00:29:55):
it's a shameful thing if you have a problem with anything like not just alcohol but

Sarah Kate (00:30:00):
that so i think that a lot of women especially who are we've grown up with this

Sarah Kate (00:30:05):
like you have to you can have it all you can have a job a career you can be a you

Sarah Kate (00:30:08):
have you have to be not have to but you should be a good wife and like you can be a

Sarah Kate (00:30:12):
good parent and a good you have to be a good mother and all these things and

Sarah Kate (00:30:15):
we have a hard time raising our hand and saying like, I need help.

Sarah Kate (00:30:18):
I have a problem with alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:30:19):
Like it's,

Sarah Kate (00:30:20):
we,

Sarah Kate (00:30:20):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:30:21):
there's some sort of,

Sarah Kate (00:30:22):
there's still,

Sarah Kate (00:30:23):
still like a bit of a shame and a stigma around asking for help.

Sarah Kate (00:30:28):
Like we're trying to be heroic on our own.

Sarah Kate (00:30:30):
And it's,

Sarah Kate (00:30:30):
I think now like five years out,

Sarah Kate (00:30:33):
I'm like,

Sarah Kate (00:30:33):
things have really changed in the last five years.

Sarah Kate (00:30:35):
I think now more than ever, it's becoming acceptable to just say at the dinner, to, at the

Sarah Kate (00:30:40):
if you're out at a restaurant or something I'm just I'm not drinking tonight and

Sarah Kate (00:30:44):
people don't really question it or you don't even have to say it like a lot people

Sarah Kate (00:30:46):
aren't even asking anymore are you drinking or why aren't you drinking I don't I

Sarah Kate (00:30:50):
can't believe it because I thought it was going to take a lot longer for us to get

Sarah Kate (00:30:52):
here to be honest it took so long for people to stop smoking

Sarah Kate (00:30:56):
And to where we are with smoking now,

Sarah Kate (00:30:58):
I think it's happening at a much faster pace with alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:31:02):
And I think that's due to social media,

Sarah Kate (00:31:04):
but also like at least in for me and in my experience and a lot of the women that

Sarah Kate (00:31:10):
I've worked with or anyone I really even you see the before and after pictures.

Sarah Kate (00:31:15):
It's hard not to like literally see that.

Sarah Kate (00:31:19):
where I was and what I looked like,

Sarah Kate (00:31:21):
even just in my face,

Sarah Kate (00:31:22):
in my eyes,

Sarah Kate (00:31:23):
in like literally my phone ID for face ID did not recognize me three months sober.

Sarah Kate (00:31:29):
Like it was like no face recognition.

Sarah Kate (00:31:32):
And I had to reset my entire face recognition because the alcohol, I mean, I was drinking a lot.

Sarah Kate (00:31:38):
I mean, I was drinking way more than it was, it was bad.

Sarah Kate (00:31:42):
I mean, it was a loss though.

Sarah Kate (00:31:43):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:31:44):
So but you see a lot of people and they stop drinking and like you just it doesn't

Sarah Kate (00:31:50):
they don't even have to say they're happy or feeling good.

Sarah Kate (00:31:52):
You can just see it.

Sarah Kate (00:31:54):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:31:54):
And so I think that that's kind of convincing with the whole social media thing.

Sarah Kate (00:31:58):
You see this picture of like,

Sarah Kate (00:31:59):
holy crap,

Sarah Kate (00:32:00):
did they get one girl berated me of like where I got a nose job.

Sarah Kate (00:32:05):
I was about to say and I was like, I did not get a nose job.

Sarah Kate (00:32:08):
Really?

Sarah Kate (00:32:09):
Okay.

Sarah Kate (00:32:10):
again,

Sarah Kate (00:32:10):
my whole face just changed because I was so soaked and saturated in alcohol that

Sarah Kate (00:32:16):
I'm not even having to say,

Sarah Kate (00:32:17):
like with smoking,

Sarah Kate (00:32:18):
I don't obviously like teeth and smell,

Sarah Kate (00:32:22):
but when some,

Sarah Kate (00:32:24):
I haven't seen a huge drastic change when someone quit smoking or,

Sarah Kate (00:32:28):
Are they there?

Sarah Kate (00:32:28):
Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:32:30):
Their teeth become maybe a little bit lighter.

Sarah Kate (00:32:31):
Yeah, you're right.

Sarah Kate (00:32:33):
But alcohol, it affects like your hair, your hair, your skin, your eyes.

Sarah Kate (00:32:38):
And just everything becomes brighter and lighter.

Sarah Kate (00:32:41):
And it's just normal to question, to be like,

Sarah Kate (00:32:45):
What what are they doing?

Sarah Kate (00:32:47):
Because yeah, there's something different.

Sarah Kate (00:32:49):
Well, I'm going to say something a little bit racy right now.

Sarah Kate (00:32:51):
But like you guys, it's so good.

Sarah Kate (00:32:53):
You did it together because now you're probably seeing it like it's like seeing

Sarah Kate (00:32:56):
each other like as more attractive,

Sarah Kate (00:32:58):
maybe like more like cute,

Sarah Kate (00:33:00):
sexy.

Sarah Kate (00:33:01):
Like you probably like a much better connection now because like you won't.

Sarah Kate (00:33:04):
What was that in the beginning, though?

Sarah Kate (00:33:05):
And so does your husband's he still drinks?

Sarah Kate (00:33:07):
So no, but it was just such a weird thing.

Sarah Kate (00:33:10):
He doesn't he doesn't drink at all.

Sarah Kate (00:33:14):
Here's another small, like, short story.

Sarah Kate (00:33:15):
But during COVID here in Ontario, the liquor stores, you had to stand in line.

Sarah Kate (00:33:21):
So you can only buy alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:33:22):
Now you can get beer and wine at grocery stores and convenience stores.

Sarah Kate (00:33:26):
But that was just sort of rolling out during COVID.

Sarah Kate (00:33:30):
So the LCBO is the place you get all your,

Sarah Kate (00:33:32):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:33:32):
spirits and the most...

Sarah Kate (00:33:34):
We haven't actually got Texas.

Sarah Kate (00:33:36):
Oh, yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:33:36):
We're glad you're out.

Sarah Kate (00:33:37):
Right.

Sarah Kate (00:33:38):
So it's like a, like government controlled store anyway.

Sarah Kate (00:33:40):
Right.

Sarah Kate (00:33:40):
So they set this thing, you got to line up and only four people allowed in each store.

Sarah Kate (00:33:43):
So like people were lining up around the block to get in.

Sarah Kate (00:33:46):
It was, I would ride by and this is terrible to admit.

Sarah Kate (00:33:50):
I'm,

Sarah Kate (00:33:50):
I,

Sarah Kate (00:33:50):
I'm such an asshole when I do that,

Sarah Kate (00:33:51):
when I say this,

Sarah Kate (00:33:52):
but I would ride my bike by and be like,

Sarah Kate (00:33:54):
I don't need to wait in line.

Sarah Kate (00:33:57):
Like I was drunk waiting in line and I was probably angry and being like,

Sarah Kate (00:34:01):
I want my fucking liquor.

Sarah Kate (00:34:02):
Right.

Sarah Kate (00:34:03):
Right.

Sarah Kate (00:34:03):
People were mad.

Sarah Kate (00:34:04):
So anyway, so my husband didn't want to wait in those lines.

Sarah Kate (00:34:07):
So he would go,

Sarah Kate (00:34:08):
he would get like just beer at the grocery store because it had just started

Sarah Kate (00:34:11):
rolling out.

Sarah Kate (00:34:12):
Or he would go to the beer store.

Sarah Kate (00:34:13):
I think the beer store had less of the line, whatever.

Sarah Kate (00:34:15):
Or he would find, he would go at a time when it wasn't busy at the LCBO, whatever.

Sarah Kate (00:34:19):
But he was like,

Sarah Kate (00:34:20):
when I stopped drinking,

Sarah Kate (00:34:22):
he was still smoking a cigar every night and probably drinking three Tall Boys.

Sarah Kate (00:34:28):
most nights of the week maybe four like on the weekends for sure he was drinking

Sarah Kate (00:34:33):
probably at least four when we met he never drank at all he used to be embarrassed

Sarah Kate (00:34:38):
because we'd go to a restaurant with his friends and i'd order three glasses of

Sarah Kate (00:34:41):
wine or two glasses of wine he was embarrassed that i would drink because to me

Sarah Kate (00:34:44):
we're out on a friday night i'm drinking wine like

Sarah Kate (00:34:46):
yeah you know um normal what's normal yeah so he would be so but over time being

Sarah Kate (00:34:52):
with me he started drinking more and more but then covet happened and he like

Sarah Kate (00:34:57):
didn't want to wait in line as much so he started like just accidents and i wasn't

Sarah Kate (00:35:01):
going to the lcbo every day like i practically at that point i would buy one bottle

Sarah Kate (00:35:06):
of wine and beer for him almost every day i'd be like i'm not i this well this one

Sarah Kate (00:35:09):
bottle is going to last me

Sarah Kate (00:35:11):
you know, for a few days.

Sarah Kate (00:35:12):
So this is before, before COVID.

Sarah Kate (00:35:13):
It never does.

Sarah Kate (00:35:14):
It never did.

Sarah Kate (00:35:15):
So I go, so I wasn't going to, yeah, so rude.

Sarah Kate (00:35:17):
So rude.

Sarah Kate (00:35:19):
They make those bottles bigger.

Sarah Kate (00:35:20):
God damn it.

Sarah Kate (00:35:21):
Anyway.

Sarah Kate (00:35:21):
No, seriously.

Sarah Kate (00:35:24):
Big Joe.

Sarah Kate (00:35:24):
Big Joe.

Sarah Kate (00:35:25):
I used to love the, did you remember Cougar Town and Big Joe?

Rachel Casey (00:35:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:35:29):
Like that was, that was me.

Sarah Kate (00:35:30):
I'm like, give me the biggest wine glass.

Sarah Kate (00:35:32):
Um, talking, it was all the shitty wild was in the big ones though.

Sarah Kate (00:35:35):
And I was like, I don't want that.

Sarah Kate (00:35:37):
I can't do it.

Rachel Casey (00:35:38):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:35:39):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:35:40):
the chilean the chilean wines that were all daddy bottles yeah so he didn't have me

Sarah Kate (00:35:45):
going to the lcbo buying beer he didn't want to wait in the line so organically he

Sarah Kate (00:35:49):
kind of just sort of slowly started cutting back because i wasn't providing i

Sarah Kate (00:35:53):
wasn't his his pusher i wasn't his drug dealer anymore and so um so then i like

Sarah Kate (00:36:01):
just i i didn't even know he had stopped drinking

Sarah Kate (00:36:05):
And we rented a cottage maybe two summers ago, and he came into the door.

Sarah Kate (00:36:10):
He had gone to the grocery store, and he came in the door with a beer in his hand.

Sarah Kate (00:36:14):
And he's like, oh, my God, it felt so good.

Sarah Kate (00:36:16):
Like,

Sarah Kate (00:36:16):
it was so awesome to drive down the highway because the grocery store was quite a

Sarah Kate (00:36:20):
ways away from the cottage.

Sarah Kate (00:36:22):
Drive down the highway, eating my chips, drinking my beer, and I'm like, what?

Sarah Kate (00:36:25):
you're driving?

Sarah Kate (00:36:26):
No, I can't have beer.

Sarah Kate (00:36:27):
And he's like, I bought like selection, like a non-alcoholic blonde.

Sarah Kate (00:36:33):
He was drinking in the car.

Sarah Kate (00:36:34):
I was like, I'm like, you're hilarious.

Sarah Kate (00:36:36):
You actually bought a case of non-alcoholic beer.

Sarah Kate (00:36:38):
I have a whole bunch here.

Sarah Kate (00:36:39):
He's like, no, I want my own.

Sarah Kate (00:36:41):
And then really from then on, I was like, oh, I guess you're not drinking anymore.

Sarah Kate (00:36:44):
And recently,

Sarah Kate (00:36:45):
I'd say maybe two,

Sarah Kate (00:36:46):
three months ago,

Sarah Kate (00:36:46):
his dad is a really like,

Sarah Kate (00:36:48):
he pushes the alcohol like a

Sarah Kate (00:36:50):
you know come on have a shot have a shot have a have a beer come on like so he

Sarah Kate (00:36:55):
seems to be he's an old restaurant yeah he's an old restaurant guy yeah so he's

Sarah Kate (00:36:59):
like he doesn't understand this whole leon my husband just literally burned and

Sarah Kate (00:37:03):
like screamed at the whole family like i don't drink anymore what's wrong with you

Sarah Kate (00:37:08):
like can't you understand that and i was like you gotta simmer down like back off i

Sarah Kate (00:37:14):
never did that

Sarah Kate (00:37:16):
And so I didn't say that to him, but I'm like, you got to just, they don't get it.

Sarah Kate (00:37:20):
They don't, like, simmer down.

Sarah Kate (00:37:22):
I had to pull him into the other room and be like, take a deep breath.

Sarah Kate (00:37:26):
He didn't mean it.

Sarah Kate (00:37:27):
Yes, he does.

Sarah Kate (00:37:28):
He's always pushing alcohol on me.

Sarah Kate (00:37:29):
And I'm like, but you used to be a drinker.

Sarah Kate (00:37:31):
You never told him that you're anybody that you weren't drinking anymore.

Sarah Kate (00:37:35):
Like, you know, so just calm down.

Sarah Kate (00:37:37):
And I think his family just doesn't understand it.

Sarah Kate (00:37:40):
And, like, his dad specifically, like, I think now he won't.

Sarah Kate (00:37:45):
he's never gonna bug him about it again because he flipped out on it like flipped

Sarah Kate (00:37:50):
out like anyway so that's sort of how like we got to this point now where we're you

Sarah Kate (00:37:55):
know we have we eat dinner as a family and the kids don't see any alcohol in the

Sarah Kate (00:37:59):
house and it happened organically like I wasn't making a big deal either like when

Sarah Kate (00:38:03):
I stopped drinking I think I told my husband but not like I'm quitting drinking

Sarah Kate (00:38:08):
like I didn't make a big deal of it I saw I just

Sarah Kate (00:38:13):
I sat him down.

Sarah Kate (00:38:13):
I thought we were getting divorced.

Sarah Kate (00:38:14):
I was like, listen, here's what's happening.

Sarah Kate (00:38:18):
I'm going to try an AA meeting.

Sarah Kate (00:38:20):
Cause I told my mom,

Sarah Kate (00:38:21):
cause I had gone to her house with,

Sarah Kate (00:38:23):
with our two year old because I was so drunk.

Sarah Kate (00:38:25):
And I was just like, I want, I didn't want to live.

Sarah Kate (00:38:27):
I was just like, I'm done.

Sarah Kate (00:38:28):
I thought I was going to a psych ward.

Sarah Kate (00:38:30):
Oh my God.

Sarah Kate (00:38:31):
And I'm like, we're doing this.

Sarah Kate (00:38:34):
And I sat at the table.

Sarah Kate (00:38:34):
He's like, I'll go with, I want to go too.

Sarah Kate (00:38:36):
And I was like, really?

Sarah Kate (00:38:38):
And I mean, for the first year,

Sarah Kate (00:38:40):
it was hard because we he didn't know what was happening i didn't know what was you

Sarah Kate (00:38:45):
know it was figuring out and now i'm like i think i dated him drunk the whole time

Sarah Kate (00:38:52):
and so i'm like sober and i'm like i don't know who you really are yeah can you

Sarah Kate (00:38:55):
imagine can you imagine if you guys had gotten sober and then like oh no we don't

Sarah Kate (00:38:59):
like each other i think that happens yeah that i think that happens a lot or

Sarah Kate (00:39:03):
someone one of them relapses like

Colin Casey (00:39:06):
I feel like our counselors were preparing us for that too.

Colin Casey (00:39:09):
They're like, don't be surprised if you guys don't make it.

Sarah Kate (00:39:12):
Like there were,

Sarah Kate (00:39:13):
there was a lot of talk of,

Sarah Kate (00:39:14):
and there was no other people that had gotten sober and stayed sober since the same

Sarah Kate (00:39:18):
day.

Sarah Kate (00:39:19):
Like we, we've not really met anyone.

Sarah Kate (00:39:22):
So even when we've talked to sponsors or people in AA,

Sarah Kate (00:39:25):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:39:25):
they're like,

Sarah Kate (00:39:25):
most people get divorced.

Sarah Kate (00:39:26):
Most people, it doesn't work out.

Rachel Casey (00:39:28):
But I feel like,

Sarah Kate (00:39:29):
You're a fighter, though.

Sarah Kate (00:39:30):
I feel like I feel like you are not going to back down from a challenge.

Sarah Kate (00:39:34):
So,

Sarah Kate (00:39:35):
yeah,

Sarah Kate (00:39:35):
we I mean,

Sarah Kate (00:39:36):
it's thankfully like,

Sarah Kate (00:39:38):
again,

Sarah Kate (00:39:38):
we've almost had to redate in sobriety and there's still fights.

Sarah Kate (00:39:41):
But like,

Sarah Kate (00:39:41):
as you probably know,

Sarah Kate (00:39:43):
too,

Sarah Kate (00:39:43):
when there's not alcohol to fuel,

Sarah Kate (00:39:45):
like our fights don't escalate as much.

Colin Casey (00:39:48):
And quicker to apology.

Colin Casey (00:39:50):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:39:50):
quicker to apologize unless we realize when we're in the wrong or...

Sarah Kate (00:39:53):
And even the fights we do have,

Sarah Kate (00:39:55):
it's over such minimal stuff because of the serious stuff.

Sarah Kate (00:39:58):
We now know,

Sarah Kate (00:39:58):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:39:59):
we can have a cohesive conversation that...

Sarah Kate (00:40:03):
It's not fueled because before I would,

Sarah Kate (00:40:05):
like...

Sarah Kate (00:40:06):
I had, I was stubborn.

Sarah Kate (00:40:07):
I had to be right too.

Sarah Kate (00:40:08):
And so if I was drinking and if I was being told I was wrong,

Sarah Kate (00:40:11):
I was like,

Sarah Kate (00:40:12):
just take shots and shots and shots to discomfort.

Sarah Kate (00:40:14):
And I'm like, how do I get out of this?

Sarah Kate (00:40:18):
You know,

Sarah Kate (00:40:18):
when you're drinking,

Sarah Kate (00:40:18):
you're on this massive roller coaster where you're like,

Sarah Kate (00:40:21):
you're so highly emotionally charged at the smallest little thing.

Sarah Kate (00:40:25):
And then you crash and you're like, so regretful.

Sarah Kate (00:40:29):
You're,

Sarah Kate (00:40:30):
you're like kicking yourself for being,

Sarah Kate (00:40:31):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:40:32):
for like,

Sarah Kate (00:40:32):
for being,

Sarah Kate (00:40:33):
for being so dramatic or overreacting,

Sarah Kate (00:40:35):
whatever.

Sarah Kate (00:40:36):
but can't had too much pride.

Sarah Kate (00:40:38):
You don't want to admit that you were fighting because you were drunk.

Sarah Kate (00:40:41):
And so then you never say anything.

Sarah Kate (00:40:43):
And it just,

Sarah Kate (00:40:43):
you just get like,

Sarah Kate (00:40:44):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:40:44):
just kind of skate over the fact that you had a big,

Sarah Kate (00:40:46):
massive argument.

Sarah Kate (00:40:47):
Or if you can't remember it,

Sarah Kate (00:40:49):
or I'm like,

Sarah Kate (00:40:50):
I'm angry,

Sarah Kate (00:40:50):
but I don't remember what exactly what happened.

Sarah Kate (00:40:53):
And it's like, you just remember the feeling.

Sarah Kate (00:40:55):
And then if I had in-laws in front of us,

Sarah Kate (00:40:57):
like we're with his parents,

Sarah Kate (00:40:59):
because his mom is a huge wino.

Sarah Kate (00:41:01):
She would break out the expensive wine.

Sarah Kate (00:41:02):
She loved that.

Sarah Kate (00:41:03):
I was in love with wine.

Sarah Kate (00:41:05):
And,

Sarah Kate (00:41:06):
it was like i would have to wake up and apologize and be like i'm so sorry and it

Sarah Kate (00:41:11):
was it wasn't fine yeah and it doesn't matter how expensive the wine is the alcohol

Sarah Kate (00:41:16):
volume is still the same and it still hits you the same way like and that's the

Sarah Kate (00:41:20):
funny thing like a lot of fitness people still say okay you can have a drink a

Sarah Kate (00:41:25):
glass of wine here and there or whatever and so this was this woman the other day

Sarah Kate (00:41:27):
she's like i she's trying to like

Sarah Kate (00:41:30):
brick myths I guess about being healthy in your 40s and 50s and she was like you

Sarah Kate (00:41:34):
know yeah I do cardio sometimes before weights and I sometimes I eat dessert once

Sarah Kate (00:41:38):
in a while like I drink red wine and I wanted to like I was just like but it

Sarah Kate (00:41:45):
doesn't matter if it's you might as well just be saying you're taking a shot of

Sarah Kate (00:41:48):
tequila

Sarah Kate (00:41:50):
Do you understand?

Sarah Kate (00:41:51):
It's like red wine sounds sophisticated and like, oh, it's red wine.

Sarah Kate (00:41:57):
First of all, the resveratrol that you get from one glass of wine is so minimal.

Sarah Kate (00:42:02):
You need to drink three or four or 12 bottles of wine to get that ingredient that's

Sarah Kate (00:42:06):
good for your heart.

Sarah Kate (00:42:08):
In enough quantity that actually impacts your heart,

Sarah Kate (00:42:10):
but by then you're killing yourself with alcoholism.

Sarah Kate (00:42:13):
So the glass of red wine has negligible heart benefits that none,

Sarah Kate (00:42:17):
like no heart benefits,

Sarah Kate (00:42:19):
but also it's,

Sarah Kate (00:42:20):
you might as well be saying,

Sarah Kate (00:42:21):
I'm taking a shot of tequila.

Sarah Kate (00:42:23):
It's the same alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:42:25):
It's the same ethanol molecule.

Sarah Kate (00:42:27):
It's just wrapped in a different gift wrap.

Sarah Kate (00:42:31):
Right.

Sarah Kate (00:42:31):
And I was like, Oh God, that really bugs me.

Sarah Kate (00:42:34):
So that's the,

Sarah Kate (00:42:36):
that's sort of the,

Sarah Kate (00:42:38):
this thing that whenever people are,

Sarah Kate (00:42:39):
Oh,

Sarah Kate (00:42:39):
I drink,

Sarah Kate (00:42:40):
I only drink expensive wine.

Sarah Kate (00:42:41):
Oh, like good for you.

Sarah Kate (00:42:42):
Good for you.

Sarah Kate (00:42:44):
Well,

Sarah Kate (00:42:45):
and that was one of the red flags that really hit home with me too,

Sarah Kate (00:42:50):
is we would be given by his mom,

Sarah Kate (00:42:52):
nice bottles,

Sarah Kate (00:42:53):
like put away for a good night.

Sarah Kate (00:42:55):
And when I tell you they didn't last a week because it's like,

Sarah Kate (00:43:00):
And sometimes it would be we're so drunk and then we open that bottle and we didn't

Sarah Kate (00:43:04):
get to enjoy it.

Sarah Kate (00:43:04):
You don't get to taste it.

Sarah Kate (00:43:06):
It's the same.

Colin Casey (00:43:07):
It's something now.

Sarah Kate (00:43:09):
It was like.

Colin Casey (00:43:09):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:43:11):
And I just remember like thinking I can't even keep a bottle in the house for a

Sarah Kate (00:43:19):
good time because like I will,

Sarah Kate (00:43:22):
I will want,

Sarah Kate (00:43:22):
I will care more about the alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:43:24):
I care about how it's going to affect me and not like who,

Sarah Kate (00:43:27):
how do people save alcohol for a nice time?

Sarah Kate (00:43:30):
We could never keep our bar stocked.

Colin Casey (00:43:31):
I remember one time when Evan had a play date with some friends for a Halloween party.

Colin Casey (00:43:38):
We were invited to kind of pregame at a neighbor's Halloween house.

Colin Casey (00:43:42):
And we told him that, you know, we weren't drinkers and didn't drink.

Colin Casey (00:43:45):
And they were like, well, we're going to drink.

Colin Casey (00:43:46):
Is that okay?

Colin Casey (00:43:47):
And we're like, yeah, that's fine.

Colin Casey (00:43:48):
And we went over there.

Colin Casey (00:43:49):
And I think afterwards you point out, they're like, they had a nice stock bar.

Colin Casey (00:43:53):
And I thought about like,

Colin Casey (00:43:54):
that's how you know they're not alcoholic is because their bar is stock.

Colin Casey (00:43:57):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:43:58):
We used to be jealous of people.

Sarah Kate (00:44:00):
We'd go to people's houses and not jealous,

Sarah Kate (00:44:02):
but I remember my husband saying once,

Sarah Kate (00:44:04):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:44:04):
we could never have a bar cart.

Sarah Kate (00:44:06):
No.

Sarah Kate (00:44:07):
Well,

Sarah Kate (00:44:07):
we tried,

Sarah Kate (00:44:08):
and it would just,

Colin Casey (00:44:09):
like...

Colin Casey (00:44:09):
Like,

Colin Casey (00:44:09):
how do they have six bottles,

Colin Casey (00:44:10):
and they're all,

Colin Casey (00:44:11):
like,

Colin Casey (00:44:11):
more than full?

Colin Casey (00:44:12):
Like, or more than half wet?

Colin Casey (00:44:14):
It's like, ours would all be, like, needing to be replaced.

Sarah Kate (00:44:17):
I mean,

Sarah Kate (00:44:17):
I remember a point where we would watch his mom's house,

Sarah Kate (00:44:21):
and she would have alcohol,

Sarah Kate (00:44:23):
and we would have to,

Sarah Kate (00:44:23):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:44:24):
measure it because we knew we were going to drink it and then,

Sarah Kate (00:44:26):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:44:26):
replace it.

Sarah Kate (00:44:28):
And it's like, why couldn't we just, like, have what we had?

Sarah Kate (00:44:31):
And it was...

Sarah Kate (00:44:32):
I mean, it was stupid.

Sarah Kate (00:44:33):
And sometimes we would drink stuff we didn't even really like.

Sarah Kate (00:44:36):
Like we were like crumb to meth because that's all that was in the back hall.

Sarah Kate (00:44:41):
Yeah, I know.

Sarah Kate (00:44:42):
Hot sauce in it to make it taste different or something like that.

Sarah Kate (00:44:45):
Like it's so bad.

Sarah Kate (00:44:47):
Colin,

Sarah Kate (00:44:47):
you asked me way back and I never answered your question,

Sarah Kate (00:44:49):
but I think this is important because if there are any moms listening out there,

Sarah Kate (00:44:53):
this is,

Sarah Kate (00:44:53):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:44:55):
it was such a blow.

Sarah Kate (00:44:56):
It was such a blow to find out that your kids...

Sarah Kate (00:44:59):
are watching how much they're watching you don't realize it so this is like if

Sarah Kate (00:45:05):
there's any takeaway from this episode like this is the heart the most

Sarah Kate (00:45:10):
heartbreaking thing that i i still get heart palpitations when i'm like oh my god

Sarah Kate (00:45:15):
my daughter said to me after i stopped drinking she said

Sarah Kate (00:45:19):
I didn't ever want to play with my dollhouse mommy and I said why and so but by

Sarah Kate (00:45:23):
this time she was in grade she was in grade six we had this conversation but she

Sarah Kate (00:45:27):
was like early grade seven she was like I never wanted to play with my dollhouse

Sarah Kate (00:45:30):
mommy I said why and she said because there was always a a big red wine stain on my

Sarah Kate (00:45:36):
dollhouse on the top floor of my dollhouse from where you would put your wine glass

Sarah Kate (00:45:40):
down when you were reading to me

Sarah Kate (00:45:43):
And I was like,

Sarah Kate (00:45:44):
oh my God,

Sarah Kate (00:45:44):
I felt sick to my stomach because of course I was reading to her with my wine.

Sarah Kate (00:45:49):
Why wouldn't I?

Sarah Kate (00:45:50):
She's not noticing.

Sarah Kate (00:45:52):
It's just something I drink, right?

Sarah Kate (00:45:54):
That was like, there was a few other little tiny things.

Sarah Kate (00:45:58):
Like she didn't, she knew that my breath smelled, like my breath always smelled bad, she said.

Sarah Kate (00:46:03):
My breath always smelled like wine.

Sarah Kate (00:46:05):
And I was like, oh my God, like it's heartbreaking because she realized what it was.

Sarah Kate (00:46:12):
But she didn't know at the time how toxic it was,

Sarah Kate (00:46:14):
but she was like,

Sarah Kate (00:46:15):
kids instinctively don't like the smell of alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:46:18):
You're not supposed to.

Sarah Kate (00:46:19):
It's poison.

Sarah Kate (00:46:20):
Yeah, it's a poison, right?

Sarah Kate (00:46:21):
And my son has never really said anything,

Sarah Kate (00:46:24):
but he's made comments and stuff over the past few years.

Sarah Kate (00:46:29):
But he was really he was still kind of little.

Sarah Kate (00:46:31):
He was like grade three when I stopped drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:46:33):
So he he only vaguely remembers things.

Sarah Kate (00:46:35):
But and I was I'm going to say I'm saving this.

Sarah Kate (00:46:38):
I was saving this sort of this little quick story I'm going to tell you for.

Sarah Kate (00:46:43):
I hope I'm going to write a book one day, like some sort of book.

Sarah Kate (00:46:46):
Mocktail hybrid of stories and mocktails.

Sarah Kate (00:46:48):
Anyway, we can use this to promote that section.

Colin Casey (00:46:50):
I actually like the title stories and mocktails, stories and mocktails.

Sarah Kate (00:46:54):
that's a good there you go i love that stories and mocktails yeah because they're

Sarah Kate (00:46:59):
so many stories um trade market the trade market oh my son the thing that happened

Sarah Kate (00:47:06):
with my son wasn't that he's so much that he said something is that uh we were in

Sarah Kate (00:47:09):
mexico once and he almost got abducted because i was drinking by the pool and this

Sarah Kate (00:47:15):
woman this weird man and woman were sort of befriending me and and him and

Sarah Kate (00:47:20):
He had scraped his knee and his knee was band-aid had fallen off or whatever.

Sarah Kate (00:47:24):
And this woman's like, I'm going to take Jack up to my room to get a band-aid.

Sarah Kate (00:47:27):
And the thing that stops my heart right now,

Sarah Kate (00:47:29):
even still to this day,

Sarah Kate (00:47:31):
it's like there was a brief moment because I drank so much that I trusted Jack.

Sarah Kate (00:47:37):
Like that I almost did, my mother instinct almost didn't come out.

Sarah Kate (00:47:41):
There was a brief moment where like my mother, my mothering instinct was like not there.

Sarah Kate (00:47:49):
Like there was the mama bear instinct was not there briefly for a split second.

Sarah Kate (00:47:55):
I almost let her take him.

Sarah Kate (00:47:57):
And then I was like, no, thank you.

Sarah Kate (00:47:58):
Like I meet,

Sarah Kate (00:47:59):
like it took a second because I had been drinking so much for me to understand that

Sarah Kate (00:48:03):
a lady was walking away with my son in Mexico.

Sarah Kate (00:48:06):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:48:07):
Like, but that's like what alcohol does.

Sarah Kate (00:48:09):
It diminishes your reaction time.

Sarah Kate (00:48:13):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:48:13):
And it's, you know, I love Nikki Glaser.

Sarah Kate (00:48:16):
I don't know.

Sarah Kate (00:48:16):
She's a comedian.

Sarah Kate (00:48:17):
She's done.

Sarah Kate (00:48:18):
I love her.

Sarah Kate (00:48:18):
And I've seen her.

Sarah Kate (00:48:19):
I saw her video about drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:48:21):
Okay.

Sarah Kate (00:48:22):
So we saw her live in 22 and she was using a lot of the AA terms and I did find out

Sarah Kate (00:48:27):
she is sober and she,

Sarah Kate (00:48:29):
and anyways,

Sarah Kate (00:48:30):
I'm like,

Sarah Kate (00:48:30):
man,

Sarah Kate (00:48:31):
she's saying a lot of things that I say about drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:48:33):
Like I could pick up on it.

Sarah Kate (00:48:35):
And I'm like, yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:48:37):
Anyway, but she was like, she does a bit that she's talking about drinking made me stupid.

Sarah Kate (00:48:43):
Like, she's like, I'm going to say it.

Sarah Kate (00:48:44):
Like, it made it easy to sleep with men.

Sarah Kate (00:48:47):
Like, it made me stupid.

Sarah Kate (00:48:48):
And if you can't accept that, like...

Sarah Kate (00:48:50):
And I think it's the way that's probably why date rate drugs happen in bars is

Sarah Kate (00:48:56):
because like your intuition's lowered.

Sarah Kate (00:48:58):
You're trusting people more.

Sarah Kate (00:49:00):
It's not even with just kids, but it's everywhere.

Sarah Kate (00:49:02):
And that's who they prey on.

Sarah Kate (00:49:04):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:49:05):
Because yes, of some moms drinking on a vacation, that's a easy target.

Sarah Kate (00:49:11):
Easy target.

Sarah Kate (00:49:12):
It's so scary.

Sarah Kate (00:49:13):
And I like,

Sarah Kate (00:49:15):
I don't,

Sarah Kate (00:49:15):
I hate saying that it was Mexico because I know there's like a lot,

Sarah Kate (00:49:18):
like there's a lot going on in Mexico,

Sarah Kate (00:49:20):
but it could have,

Sarah Kate (00:49:20):
yeah,

Sarah Kate (00:49:21):
it could have been anywhere.

Sarah Kate (00:49:21):
And the people that were doing it were not Mexican.

Sarah Kate (00:49:23):
They were French Canadian actually.

Sarah Kate (00:49:25):
So that was even scarier.

Sarah Kate (00:49:26):
You're able to be like, you wreck it.

Sarah Kate (00:49:28):
Cause you know,

Sarah Kate (00:49:29):
there's a lot of people that I think wouldn't even connect alcohol to like

Sarah Kate (00:49:33):
diminishing that.

Sarah Kate (00:49:34):
It's like, those people are con artists, you know, like they're, they're marketed like to like,

Sarah Kate (00:49:41):
be able to, Oh, let me go help get a bandaid.

Sarah Kate (00:49:43):
Something that's very innocent, you know?

Sarah Kate (00:49:45):
So I think,

Sarah Kate (00:49:46):
so I think your mama bear instinct,

Sarah Kate (00:49:48):
you've probably gave yourself a little grace on that.

Sarah Kate (00:49:50):
It did kick in eventually, but it was that moment.

Sarah Kate (00:49:52):
I still, my stomach drops like a rock whenever I think about it.

Sarah Kate (00:49:55):
And I try not to think about it very often.

Sarah Kate (00:49:57):
Cause it really like still after all this time, like this happened in 2016.

Sarah Kate (00:50:00):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:50:03):
Like it's nine years later and my stomach drops out every time I think about it.

Sarah Kate (00:50:07):
So that would have still been me though.

Sarah Kate (00:50:09):
Like,

Sarah Kate (00:50:09):
and I,

Sarah Kate (00:50:10):
we were big about like,

Sarah Kate (00:50:11):
even during the pandemic,

Sarah Kate (00:50:13):
bringing the white claws and putting them in like our Stanleys and going to the

Sarah Kate (00:50:18):
park and drinking at the park.

Sarah Kate (00:50:19):
So, I mean, that definitely could have easily, easily happened to us just in our neighborhood.

Colin Casey (00:50:25):
I mean, or the fool.

Colin Casey (00:50:26):
Yeah.

(00:50:27):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:50:30):
I do.

Sarah Kate (00:50:30):
I was telling my kids the other speaking of the pool there.

Sarah Kate (00:50:33):
I do.

Sarah Kate (00:50:33):
It's not that I miss it.

Sarah Kate (00:50:34):
But when I was before the kids were born,

Sarah Kate (00:50:36):
my husband and I lived in this apartment building that had a pool.

Sarah Kate (00:50:39):
And I just remember I'd take my tote bag and I'd have my cigarettes.

Sarah Kate (00:50:44):
I'd have a towel, my book, two packs of licorice.

Sarah Kate (00:50:47):
Yes.

Sarah Kate (00:50:48):
Because I love licorice.

Sarah Kate (00:50:50):
But I'd also bring,

Sarah Kate (00:50:51):
I'd bring a huge,

Sarah Kate (00:50:53):
huge,

Sarah Kate (00:50:53):
like,

Sarah Kate (00:50:54):
it wasn't,

Sarah Kate (00:50:55):
there were no such things as Stanley's back then.

Sarah Kate (00:50:57):
Like the Yetis, yeah, or whatever.

Sarah Kate (00:50:58):
It's a huge thing of like, Diet Coke and vodka.

Sarah Kate (00:51:02):
And I would just sit by the pool drinking my Diet Coke and vodka and smoking for

Sarah Kate (00:51:07):
hours and hours every Saturday and Sunday afternoon in the weather.

Sarah Kate (00:51:10):
Like tanning, not every weekend, but like I loved that.

Sarah Kate (00:51:15):
And I loved being like just a little bit out of it, lying in the sun.

Sarah Kate (00:51:19):
Of course, like I could nurse that vodka Diet Coke like the whole afternoon.

Sarah Kate (00:51:23):
But, you know, there's like a romanticizing thing.

Sarah Kate (00:51:30):
Of that in my head that I'm never going to be young and hot and be able to smoke

Sarah Kate (00:51:35):
and drink as much as I want and get up and go have a nap and go party like,

Sarah Kate (00:51:39):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:51:40):
and that was fun in my 20s.

Sarah Kate (00:51:41):
But unfortunately,

Sarah Kate (00:51:42):
like I was that person that couldn't just have one couldn't just have the Yeti with

Sarah Kate (00:51:46):
my vodka Diet Coke and then stay in for the night.

Sarah Kate (00:51:48):
I had to be like, whoa.

Sarah Kate (00:51:50):
now i had 700 drinks like it's time to go out for the night too right we learned

Sarah Kate (00:51:54):
that's not really that attractive like we think it is because it's glorified in

Sarah Kate (00:51:58):
movies but the movies don't those actors are not drinking when they're doing yeah

Sarah Kate (00:52:02):
yeah right totally yeah and it's not real it's in our head we're like oh the

Sarah Kate (00:52:08):
build-up into and like

Colin Casey (00:52:10):
Well,

Colin Casey (00:52:10):
it's the same thing,

Colin Casey (00:52:11):
like,

Colin Casey (00:52:11):
you'll see the actor with the six-pack eat a burger or pizza,

Colin Casey (00:52:15):
and,

Colin Casey (00:52:15):
like,

Colin Casey (00:52:15):
that's not accurate either.

Colin Casey (00:52:17):
Because you can't eat our drunk food and still be in that good of shape.

Colin Casey (00:52:21):
You can't drink those many drinks and still... Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:52:23):
And that's all the marketing.

Sarah Kate (00:52:25):
And that's, like, the same, like, cigarette smoking.

Sarah Kate (00:52:27):
Yeah, there was, like, Mad Men kind of makes it look cool.

Sarah Kate (00:52:30):
They're probably smoking fake cigarettes, number one.

Sarah Kate (00:52:33):
And number two, like...

Sarah Kate (00:52:35):
it's then you smell it and you're around it and then it's like coughing they don't

Sarah Kate (00:52:39):
do that part sex in the city sex in the city for it was my that was my generation's

Sarah Kate (00:52:45):
like

Sarah Kate (00:52:47):
It's a very smoking and a lot of drinking.

Sarah Kate (00:52:51):
And the thing that's so,

Sarah Kate (00:52:52):
so then,

Sarah Kate (00:52:53):
yeah,

Sarah Kate (00:52:53):
there was so much of like pivotal things in that for women,

Sarah Kate (00:52:57):
because it was that like when sex in the city came out,

Sarah Kate (00:53:00):
it was right at this like zeitgeist of women are powerful.

Sarah Kate (00:53:05):
We can be equal to men.

Sarah Kate (00:53:07):
And it was different than our, we're going to be different than our mothers.

Sarah Kate (00:53:11):
We've got, you know, we're starting to be more empowered, but also your girl squad is,

Sarah Kate (00:53:16):
Your girl,

Sarah Kate (00:53:16):
your girls,

Sarah Kate (00:53:17):
like going out with the girls,

Sarah Kate (00:53:18):
being like having power together,

Sarah Kate (00:53:20):
being,

Sarah Kate (00:53:21):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:53:21):
going out.

Sarah Kate (00:53:22):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:53:23):
And like that, we can we can go out and drink with, you know, in the evenings and have a blast.

Sarah Kate (00:53:28):
We can go to our jobs during the day.

Sarah Kate (00:53:29):
We can look sexy.

Sarah Kate (00:53:31):
So there was a lot of drinking, a lot of smoking and sex in the city and really glamorized.

Sarah Kate (00:53:37):
That,

Sarah Kate (00:53:38):
that,

Sarah Kate (00:53:38):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:53:39):
the sexiness of being single and I wasn't single,

Sarah Kate (00:53:43):
but like being young and single and like,

Sarah Kate (00:53:45):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:53:46):
I think that we were really influenced by this.

Sarah Kate (00:53:48):
And it's so funny because now and just like that, nobody drinks in that show anymore.

Sarah Kate (00:53:53):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:53:54):
right like it's it's it's really like gone to the complete opposite direction from

Sarah Kate (00:53:59):
where it used to be which was like sexy and young and whatever and they're all old

Sarah Kate (00:54:02):
they're all talking about being becoming old and that kind of thing but yeah that's

Sarah Kate (00:54:05):
sort of like the you get over that you you start to see through some of that

Sarah Kate (00:54:09):
marketing and high like in hindsight once you get to this side of things so always

Sarah Kate (00:54:13):
grateful that i've always grateful for that because it's it opens your eyes to a

Sarah Kate (00:54:18):
lot of other things too like just to the world in general so happy to be here

Sarah Kate (00:54:23):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:54:24):
And it's like you're not you're not drownded by the noise in it.

Sarah Kate (00:54:27):
You know, it's it's really cool.

Sarah Kate (00:54:30):
Like, yeah, there's just I have zero regrets on.

Sarah Kate (00:54:32):
There's never a time where I'm like, man, I wish I didn't get sober.

Sarah Kate (00:54:36):
You know, that's I wake up.

Sarah Kate (00:54:37):
I'm always like grateful that I don't have to drink.

Sarah Kate (00:54:41):
Yeah, I do miss.

Sarah Kate (00:54:42):
I do miss cigarettes, though.

Sarah Kate (00:54:43):
I once in a while I'm like, oh, I just want to have a Marlboro light.

Sarah Kate (00:54:47):
Like I just, just, and then I'll smell it.

Sarah Kate (00:54:50):
I'll be like, oh my God, it smells so good.

Sarah Kate (00:54:51):
And then, but then I remember, but then I remember how bad it tastes.

Sarah Kate (00:54:57):
You know,

Sarah Kate (00:54:58):
so I've just,

Sarah Kate (00:54:59):
you know,

Sarah Kate (00:54:59):
so it's like,

Sarah Kate (00:54:59):
okay,

Sarah Kate (00:55:00):
I don't really,

Sarah Kate (00:55:01):
I don't really need a cigarette.

Sarah Kate (00:55:02):
But so sometimes I do like really like, oh, I don't want a cigarette, but it's not real.

Sarah Kate (00:55:06):
It's not,

Sarah Kate (00:55:06):
but I don't think about that about the only thing I,

Sarah Kate (00:55:09):
the only thing I,

Sarah Kate (00:55:11):
I always said,

Sarah Kate (00:55:11):
I said this to my,

Sarah Kate (00:55:12):
one of my girlfriends yesterday.

Sarah Kate (00:55:14):
If I make it to 90,

Sarah Kate (00:55:16):
I'm having an ice cold martini because that's the only thing you can't replicate in

Sarah Kate (00:55:20):
non-alcoholic drinks.

Sarah Kate (00:55:22):
Like it's one of the only drinks you can't,

Sarah Kate (00:55:24):
they're never going to be able to replicate it because it's a hundred percent

Sarah Kate (00:55:26):
alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:55:28):
There's no mixer in it like vermouth and gin or vermouth and vodka and like a

Sarah Kate (00:55:33):
little bit of olive brine.

Sarah Kate (00:55:34):
So there's people that are trying to replicate the non-alcoholic martini now and

Sarah Kate (00:55:38):
it's like they use olive brine and pickle brine and potato water and blah,

Sarah Kate (00:55:41):
blah,

Sarah Kate (00:55:42):
blah,

Sarah Kate (00:55:42):
blah,

Sarah Kate (00:55:42):
blah.

Sarah Kate (00:55:43):
it's just not the same like it's just really not the same there's it where they're

Sarah Kate (00:55:47):
getting close like you can do a gin vermouth vodka um a gin vermouth martini now

Sarah Kate (00:55:51):
that's like pretty good missing the punch though of like a real like bully

Sarah Kate (00:55:56):
alcoholic martini so when i'm 90 i'm gonna let myself celebrate what

Colin Casey (00:56:01):
if they haven't made something you know what would be crazy though is like if

Sarah Kate (00:56:05):
you're 90 you taste it and like you just it just doesn't do it then you're just

Sarah Kate (00:56:10):
like because you've gotten over alcohol at that point yeah and it's or is it i mean

Sarah Kate (00:56:15):
yeah i don't know it will be that's to follow for more or you'll be back at the

Colin Casey (00:56:24):
club in the old folks home for happy hour

Sarah Kate (00:56:27):
You know, I just heard about this place called The Villages, I think, in Florida.

Sarah Kate (00:56:32):
Have you heard about this place?

Sarah Kate (00:56:33):
It's like spring break for...

Sarah Kate (00:56:39):
It's like a spring break village or like a Daytona beach for seniors.

Sarah Kate (00:56:44):
They party like nobody's business.

Sarah Kate (00:56:46):
It's alcohol, guns, and raves for seniors.

Sarah Kate (00:56:49):
And it's huge.

Sarah Kate (00:56:50):
It's the size of Washington, D.C.

Sarah Kate (00:56:51):
It's the largest retirement community in the U.S.,

Sarah Kate (00:56:54):
and I just heard about this it's in Florida and I was like wow my husband and I

Sarah Kate (00:57:00):
used to joke because he's also Jewish so we used to joke that we were gonna we're

Sarah Kate (00:57:03):
gonna retire in Boca and velour tracksuits and drive golf carts and stuff like

Sarah Kate (00:57:07):
that's just it's in our future and I'm like wow maybe that's with gold chains yeah

Sarah Kate (00:57:11):
totally I'm gonna be a Bubby and he's gonna be a Zadie and we're gonna like it

Sarah Kate (00:57:15):
right we're gonna have our like

Sarah Kate (00:57:17):
our crew of like old jewish folks to hang out with i'm like maybe i'll end up at

Sarah Kate (00:57:22):
the village and we'll just be partying but like not not drinking obviously but i'll

Sarah Kate (00:57:27):
set i'll go down there and start making mocktails for everyone and all of a sudden

Sarah Kate (00:57:29):
all the seniors are going to stop drinking that's what's going to happen

Sarah Kate (00:57:33):
I'll set up my little mocktail bar.

Sarah Kate (00:57:34):
That would be, see, there you go.

Sarah Kate (00:57:36):
You already have like, and then it can be called some good, clean fun.

Sarah Kate (00:57:39):
And that's a good, clean, fun retirement home.

Colin Casey (00:57:42):
We were talking about the mocktails you're going to make for the seniors in Florida.

Colin Casey (00:57:46):
What is your favorite mocktail drink that you're making now?

Sarah Kate (00:57:48):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (00:57:49):
Oh my God.

Sarah Kate (00:57:50):
So.

Sarah Kate (00:57:52):
This is a loaded question because what I'm really, I really love bitters.

Sarah Kate (00:57:59):
So I love, and I love, I used to love an Aperol spritz.

Sarah Kate (00:58:03):
And so that's one of the, you know, you didn't like Aperol spritz.

Sarah Kate (00:58:06):
Okay.

Sarah Kate (00:58:06):
So you don't like bitters?

Sarah Kate (00:58:07):
The only thing I didn't like, I could not do Aperol.

Sarah Kate (00:58:09):
That was the one I could not do, but people love it.

Sarah Kate (00:58:13):
Yeah, people love it.

Sarah Kate (00:58:13):
So I go back all the time to the Aperol Spritz just because it's really,

Sarah Kate (00:58:17):
it's so easy to make because you can have,

Sarah Kate (00:58:18):
there's really good non-alcoholic Prosecco now.

Sarah Kate (00:58:20):
There's really good non-alcoholic Aperol dupes now.

Sarah Kate (00:58:23):
The other thing too that I'm loving is, I think I have it behind me, Almave.

Sarah Kate (00:58:28):
Almave is a new, it's not new, but Lewis Hamilton's non-alcoholic tequila brand.

Sarah Kate (00:58:33):
And it's really great.

Sarah Kate (00:58:35):
And just a basic margarita.

Sarah Kate (00:58:36):
Like it makes a great margarita.

Sarah Kate (00:58:38):
lime and some salt and a little bit of so instead of oh my god the orange stuff I

Sarah Kate (00:58:43):
always forget the name of the orange liqueur or um Cointreau Cointreau yeah so

Sarah Kate (00:58:48):
instead of Cointreau like or like whatever orange liqueur you're gonna put in you

Sarah Kate (00:58:51):
can just use a little bit of orange juice and really like I will say to some I will

Sarah Kate (00:58:54):
say to people the thing that you people love about margaritas is not necessarily

Sarah Kate (00:58:57):
the the alcohol like the tequila like it's they there's the flavors from the

Sarah Kate (00:59:02):
tequila that they like the agave and the smoke mixed with the lime mixed with the

Sarah Kate (00:59:06):
salt

Sarah Kate (00:59:07):
those are the things you like.

Sarah Kate (00:59:08):
So that's easy to replicate.

Sarah Kate (00:59:09):
So that's, I, now it's starting to get warm.

Sarah Kate (00:59:12):
I'm like, it's going to be a margarita season soon.

Sarah Kate (00:59:14):
And the Aperol spritz I drank, you know, it's so easy to make.

Sarah Kate (00:59:17):
And my, my thing is really like,

Sarah Kate (00:59:20):
For a while,

Sarah Kate (00:59:21):
I was really working on becoming a recipe,

Sarah Kate (00:59:23):
like not becoming a recipe creator,

Sarah Kate (00:59:25):
but I wanted to create recipes.

Sarah Kate (00:59:27):
And I realized that that's not really my jam necessarily,

Sarah Kate (00:59:31):
like becoming a food creator,

Sarah Kate (00:59:32):
like a recipe developer.

Sarah Kate (00:59:34):
My mission is to just say, like I said, damn girl, you can make a gin and tonic without alcohol.

Sarah Kate (00:59:39):
Like, oh my God, like we got to do this.

Sarah Kate (00:59:42):
easy mocktails and the Aperol Spritz is one of those things that's like it's an

Sarah Kate (00:59:45):
excellent dupe there's like excellent dupes out there of Aperol tastes very similar

Sarah Kate (00:59:49):
so easy to make at home like an Aperol a Prosecco you need two things and you can

Sarah Kate (00:59:53):
get like you know a couple of drinks out of out of that if you you know so once you

Sarah Kate (00:59:58):
open the Prosecco you've got it for like a day or two you know so you can make a

Sarah Kate (01:00:01):
couple of drinks out of those two bottles and the with the margarita if you buy the

Sarah Kate (01:00:05):
Almay if you there's like 30 ounces in here practically so

Sarah Kate (01:00:08):
it's a good investment to like buy a spirit that you like because then you can do

Sarah Kate (01:00:14):
something easy and do other things to make something easy don't try and make

Sarah Kate (01:00:18):
complicated recipes like i used to make my own syrups and like oh my god like matt

Sarah Kate (01:00:24):
like muddling fruit even it's like some people are like i don't want to muddle

Sarah Kate (01:00:27):
fruit i'm like don't then don't muddle fruit like if you don't want to muddle

Sarah Kate (01:00:29):
blackberries just get blackberry sparkling water because you're going to get a

Sarah Kate (01:00:32):
similar flavor anyway it

Sarah Kate (01:00:34):
even shakers like not everybody has a shaker at home you gotta wash them after just

Sarah Kate (01:00:38):
use a mason jar put some ice in then drink from the jar who cares like I think

Sarah Kate (01:00:42):
there's a new I saw this in the cocktail world just recently that this is a it's

Sarah Kate (01:00:46):
called a dirty shake you might know this maybe not but I think this is a more and

Sarah Kate (01:00:50):
more people are talking about this where the bartender is shaking up the drink

Sarah Kate (01:00:55):
And then instead of straining it into over fresh ice, they're just using the dirt like that.

Sarah Kate (01:01:00):
It's not dirty ice, but you know what I mean?

Sarah Kate (01:01:02):
The ice,

Sarah Kate (01:01:03):
everything from the shaker goes into the glass,

Sarah Kate (01:01:05):
which is the almost edible leftover,

Sarah Kate (01:01:07):
which the bartender would drink.

Sarah Kate (01:01:10):
Yeah,

Sarah Kate (01:01:10):
and like,

Sarah Kate (01:01:11):
that's the opposite of what bartenders are being taught,

Sarah Kate (01:01:13):
which is like,

Sarah Kate (01:01:13):
keep,

Sarah Kate (01:01:13):
you know,

Sarah Kate (01:01:14):
strain it into the glass.

Sarah Kate (01:01:15):
And then of course, there's a lot, you know, there's leftover whatever.

Sarah Kate (01:01:18):
But so yeah, I always say make it easy, make it easy to make a mocktail.

Sarah Kate (01:01:21):
And actually, on that note, I'm going to share with you guys.

Sarah Kate (01:01:25):
I see you guys have all your ingredients there behind you.

Sarah Kate (01:01:27):
So we have the athletic

Colin Casey (01:01:30):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (01:01:31):
Yes.

Sarah Kate (01:01:31):
And I actually didn't, I told you guys to buy the hazy IPA and then I didn't even have any.

Sarah Kate (01:01:35):
I have the upside Dawn, which is a little bit more of like a wheat.

Sarah Kate (01:01:39):
So it's a blonde.

Sarah Kate (01:01:40):
So it's a little bit thinner, but so we'll pop this.

Sarah Kate (01:01:42):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (01:01:43):
So pop this open.

Sarah Kate (01:01:43):
Just a quick shout out to athletic.

Sarah Kate (01:01:45):
They're, they're.

Sarah Kate (01:01:46):
I think one of the only breweries in the U.S.

Sarah Kate (01:01:48):
that's fully non-alcoholic.

Sarah Kate (01:01:50):
They were in the game way early.

Sarah Kate (01:01:52):
They're early.

Sarah Kate (01:01:52):
They were very, very early adapters.

Sarah Kate (01:01:54):
They've been around forever.

Sarah Kate (01:01:55):
They're a great brand.

Sarah Kate (01:01:56):
They make amazing non-alcoholic beer made in the U.S.

Sarah Kate (01:01:59):
And it's just,

Sarah Kate (01:02:01):
oh,

Sarah Kate (01:02:02):
it's so easy to find it now that if you're out there and you're looking for,

Sarah Kate (01:02:05):
you know,

Sarah Kate (01:02:05):
I just want to grab some non-alcoholic beer for the boat,

Sarah Kate (01:02:07):
picnic,

Sarah Kate (01:02:08):
backyard barbecue.

Sarah Kate (01:02:09):
Like you can find an athletic almost everywhere now.

Sarah Kate (01:02:12):
Well, it's like that fruit.

Colin Casey (01:02:16):
It's big for, I know, like runners and marathons to have them afterwards.

Colin Casey (01:02:20):
Because I've heard from a few friends that are big runners and they'll go to these

Colin Casey (01:02:25):
running or meets and stuff.

Colin Casey (01:02:26):
And there'll be a big athletic presence there.

Colin Casey (01:02:28):
So if you can drink a beer afterwards, it's like you drink an athletic.

Sarah Kate (01:02:32):
Yeah, that was part of their strategy.

Sarah Kate (01:02:33):
And I think it's very smart to connect to that group of people who,

Sarah Kate (01:02:38):
you know,

Sarah Kate (01:02:39):
I hate the culture.

Sarah Kate (01:02:39):
I used to be a runner.

Sarah Kate (01:02:40):
And I hated the culture of going for runs and then having a... Oh, sorry, I didn't hate it.

Sarah Kate (01:02:44):
Now I hate it.

Sarah Kate (01:02:45):
I loved it at the time.

Sarah Kate (01:02:46):
But now I look back and I'm like, oh, God, that's so gross.

Sarah Kate (01:02:48):
Like, you're running a hard run.

Sarah Kate (01:02:51):
You're like, I ran a marathon.

Sarah Kate (01:02:52):
Sorry, half marathon.

Sarah Kate (01:02:54):
I ran a half marathon, couldn't wait to get home and drink a bottle of champagne.

Sarah Kate (01:02:59):
gross right like so fucking gross and you hydrate your body instantly after so yeah

Sarah Kate (01:03:04):
so this is the athletic there's a lot of really good non-alcoholic beers in the

Sarah Kate (01:03:07):
U.S.

Sarah Kate (01:03:07):
actually like it's crazy and I'm in Canada and so in Canada as well like there was

Sarah Kate (01:03:13):
you know lots of great non-alcoholic beers but the U.S.

Sarah Kate (01:03:16):
has really started like upping the game when it comes to non-alcoholic beer but

Sarah Kate (01:03:21):
If you are,

Sarah Kate (01:03:21):
the reason I'm sharing this mocktail with you guys that I'm going to share in a

Sarah Kate (01:03:24):
second,

Sarah Kate (01:03:25):
it goes back to sort of the beginnings of my drinking career,

Sarah Kate (01:03:29):
not like my sober time.

Sarah Kate (01:03:31):
It was the first summer of COVID and everybody was having these street parties,

Sarah Kate (01:03:34):
like not street parties,

Sarah Kate (01:03:35):
but street get togethers because nobody could get together inside their homes.

Sarah Kate (01:03:38):
Everybody was in like, you know, social distancing.

Sarah Kate (01:03:41):
So everybody was out in their front yards.

Sarah Kate (01:03:42):
And I just felt like I just wanted to have something to carry around with me.

Sarah Kate (01:03:45):
I didn't want everybody to notice I wasn't drinking.

Sarah Kate (01:03:48):
But I also was never a huge beer drinker.

Sarah Kate (01:03:50):
I appreciate it way more now, let me tell you.

Sarah Kate (01:03:52):
Like now that I'm on this side, I actually love non-alcoholic beer now.

Sarah Kate (01:03:55):
But at the time, I was like, I don't really love beer, but I wanted to have something.

Sarah Kate (01:03:58):
So...

Sarah Kate (01:03:59):
I created this like beer, beer tonic.

Sarah Kate (01:04:02):
I'm sure other people have done this before, but it's almost like a shandy.

Sarah Kate (01:04:05):
And so what basically what it is,

Sarah Kate (01:04:06):
is I just realized I grabbed the smallest little mason jar ever.

Sarah Kate (01:04:09):
So this is not going to be a good example.

Sarah Kate (01:04:11):
And usually there's ice in this.

Sarah Kate (01:04:13):
So I think you guys have your Stanley's there, your cups there with ice in them, right?

Sarah Kate (01:04:17):
Okay,

Sarah Kate (01:04:17):
so all you do,

Sarah Kate (01:04:18):
and I'm going to do mine without ice,

Sarah Kate (01:04:20):
but all you do is you pour in about half the

Sarah Kate (01:04:24):
Oh my God.

Sarah Kate (01:04:24):
I'm spilling all over.

Sarah Kate (01:04:26):
See, can't make, can't take me anywhere.

Sarah Kate (01:04:28):
So port, I'm ported about that much beer, like about half of the can.

Sarah Kate (01:04:32):
Then you have tonic, like a diet tonic water.

Sarah Kate (01:04:35):
So you can pour the diatonic water into this.

Sarah Kate (01:04:39):
And the tonic water and the beer are cold, but there's no ice.

Sarah Kate (01:04:42):
It fizzes a lot.

Sarah Kate (01:04:43):
So just you got to kind of do it slowly.

Sarah Kate (01:04:45):
But again, like about half a can of the tonic.

Sarah Kate (01:04:48):
And if you don't love bitter stuff,

Sarah Kate (01:04:50):
you may not like this because there's a lot of quinine in tonic water,

Sarah Kate (01:04:54):
right?

Sarah Kate (01:04:54):
And beer is bitter.

Sarah Kate (01:04:55):
But that's why the hazy IPA is a good one because it's juicy.

Sarah Kate (01:04:58):
I don't have the hazy.

Sarah Kate (01:04:59):
I don't have the hazy today.

Sarah Kate (01:05:00):
But the hazy IPA is a little bit more fruity, a little bit sweeter.

Sarah Kate (01:05:03):
So it's... In any of the non-alcoholic brands, the hazy is a bit more juicier.

Sarah Kate (01:05:09):
And so then if I had lime, I don't have any lime.

Sarah Kate (01:05:14):
I...

Sarah Kate (01:05:14):
thought I did in the fridge so this is a little bit of a fail on the mocktail front

Sarah Kate (01:05:18):
today but essentially what you do is you're just going to squeeze in the juice of

Sarah Kate (01:05:22):
half a lime or even a full lime if you want into this and give it a stir and then

Sarah Kate (01:05:26):
you've got like a um a bit of a shandy almost it's like a beer tonic and so I'd

Sarah Kate (01:05:31):
have a big mason jar of this and I'd be walking around the neighborhood and you can

Sarah Kate (01:05:35):
sip on it and it hydrates you and

Sarah Kate (01:05:37):
It doesn't look like you're not drinking something.

Sarah Kate (01:05:39):
And the beer taste,

Sarah Kate (01:05:41):
the flavor,

Sarah Kate (01:05:42):
it kind of tricks your brain into like,

Sarah Kate (01:05:44):
oh,

Sarah Kate (01:05:44):
this is like you're drinking a drink,

Sarah Kate (01:05:46):
right?

Sarah Kate (01:05:47):
So cheers.

Sarah Kate (01:05:49):
I'm just going to take a sip.

Sarah Kate (01:05:49):
Cheers.

Sarah Kate (01:05:51):
we're just gonna keep it i was like we have the tonic and lime and i mean probably

Sarah Kate (01:05:55):
make it afterwards could you do soda water if you don't want the tonic like the or

Sarah Kate (01:06:00):
is it not the same it's not the same soda water is like watering it down it has no

Sarah Kate (01:06:04):
flavor and so the tonic tonic water has the bitter quinine in it and that's what

Sarah Kate (01:06:09):
that's what works so nicely with the hazy ip so definitely try it later post and

Sarah Kate (01:06:14):
there's always chats

Sarah Kate (01:06:16):
in the various places that the podcast gets posted so you know i'd love to i'd love

Colin Casey (01:06:21):
for you guys to post uh if in because i was thinking you you just cut like a slice

Colin Casey (01:06:27):
of lime like you would with a beer normally but you're saying take half of a lime

Colin Casey (01:06:32):
and squeeze it in there and then discard the lime or put the lime in the now just

Sarah Kate (01:06:37):
toss the lime interesting okay so it's lime juice

Sarah Kate (01:06:41):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (01:06:42):
Lime juice and tonic.

Sarah Kate (01:06:45):
I use diet tonic water because I want to watch my sugar.

Sarah Kate (01:06:48):
You could use regular tonic water.

Sarah Kate (01:06:51):
It doesn't have to be diet.

Sarah Kate (01:06:52):
I just find that it tastes a little bit better with the low sugar or the zero sugar tonic water.

Sarah Kate (01:06:59):
For some reason, it's almost too thick and sweet with regular full sugar tonic water.

Sarah Kate (01:07:05):
We all should be watching our sugar anyway, okay?

Sarah Kate (01:07:08):
So let's... You're bright.

Sarah Kate (01:07:10):
Right?

Sarah Kate (01:07:10):
So...

Sarah Kate (01:07:11):
Even a low sugar will taste a bit better.

Sarah Kate (01:07:13):
But and then use a beer, a non-alcoholic beer that's a bit juicier and not too bitter.

Sarah Kate (01:07:18):
Like you want some of the beer flavor.

Sarah Kate (01:07:20):
I started doing this with where I live.

Sarah Kate (01:07:24):
There wasn't this.

Sarah Kate (01:07:25):
These beers weren't available yet.

Sarah Kate (01:07:27):
So all I had was at the grocery store.

Sarah Kate (01:07:28):
We're really lucky here because there's a lot of they import a lot of German

Sarah Kate (01:07:32):
non-alcoholic beers.

Sarah Kate (01:07:34):
So there's a brand called Klaus Taylor and Klaus Taylor,

Sarah Kate (01:07:38):
I,

Sarah Kate (01:07:38):
you know,

Sarah Kate (01:07:38):
was,

Sarah Kate (01:07:39):
I tried up all the grocery store beers and that was the one I liked the most.

Sarah Kate (01:07:42):
It was from Germany.

Sarah Kate (01:07:43):
It was like delicious.

Sarah Kate (01:07:44):
And there was another one that was a wheat beer, but this one is like a, it's like a dry hop.

Sarah Kate (01:07:49):
Like it's kind of malty a little bit.

Sarah Kate (01:07:51):
Anyway, it's, it was nicer than some of the other ones.

Sarah Kate (01:07:54):
And so that's what I, I actually started it with Klaus Taylor diet, tonic water and lime.

Sarah Kate (01:08:00):
And I,

Sarah Kate (01:08:01):
Over the years, I found other beers that I liked to use with it.

Sarah Kate (01:08:06):
So I think this would even be good with like orange.

Sarah Kate (01:08:09):
Like, honestly, like you could do like orange or lime.

Sarah Kate (01:08:12):
Yeah, I think it would be like a, because it kind of reminds me of Blue Moon a little bit.

Sarah Kate (01:08:16):
It's got a little Blue Moon.

Sarah Kate (01:08:18):
100%.

Sarah Kate (01:08:18):
You could add in, you could even do this with Blue Moon.

Sarah Kate (01:08:20):
The Blue Moon non-alcoholic is really, really good.

Colin Casey (01:08:24):
I didn't realize Blue Moon had a non-alcoholic.

Sarah Kate (01:08:27):
Yeah, I told you that.

Sarah Kate (01:08:28):
When we put on the podcast because you were, like, sad, you had an orange, you were like, R.I.P.

Sarah Kate (01:08:34):
Blue Moon.

Colin Casey (01:08:35):
Yeah,

Colin Casey (01:08:35):
I had one of those moments where,

Colin Casey (01:08:37):
and you probably had those too,

Colin Casey (01:08:39):
where you were not expecting it,

Colin Casey (01:08:41):
but I remember Evan,

Colin Casey (01:08:42):
her son,

Colin Casey (01:08:43):
when he was three,

Colin Casey (01:08:44):
maybe,

Colin Casey (01:08:44):
was wanting a slice of orange.

Colin Casey (01:08:46):
So I'm just cutting up an orange for him,

Colin Casey (01:08:48):
and then all of a sudden it hit me like,

Colin Casey (01:08:49):
I'm never going to have a Blue Moon again.

Colin Casey (01:08:51):
And it just, like,

Sarah Kate (01:08:53):
You will because they have alcohol.

Colin Casey (01:08:54):
Out of nowhere.

Colin Casey (01:08:55):
I wasn't craving other beer.

Sarah Kate (01:08:56):
They have really good non-alcoholic.

Colin Casey (01:08:58):
And it just like hit me.

Colin Casey (01:08:59):
And I was like, when I was cutting up an orange, I was like, oh man, but okay.

Sarah Kate (01:09:04):
yeah this is this is a drink for definitely at the pool or yes yes summer now that

Sarah Kate (01:09:09):
it's getting hotter i'm wearing shorts today because it's like to me that's like

Sarah Kate (01:09:12):
yes summer's here 65 degrees this is it this is definitely a summer drink i could

Sarah Kate (01:09:19):
think of like this is and i want to make it like on the camera and we can make that

Colin Casey (01:09:23):
in here that'd be fun we'll do that afterwards

Sarah Kate (01:09:26):
Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah Kate (01:09:27):
I can't wait for you guys to try it and tell me what you think.

Sarah Kate (01:09:30):
And I love your idea of using what you have, whatever citrus you have.

Sarah Kate (01:09:34):
So if you don't have lime, yeah, use an orange.

Sarah Kate (01:09:36):
I don't have lemon.

Sarah Kate (01:09:37):
Lemon might make it taste too much.

Sarah Kate (01:09:39):
Like I never like things with lemon in them.

Sarah Kate (01:09:40):
It's like too much like cleaner.

Sarah Kate (01:09:41):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (01:09:42):
Like, right?

Sarah Kate (01:09:43):
Or like air freshener.

Sarah Kate (01:09:46):
But orange, I think, would be great in this.

Sarah Kate (01:09:47):
So yeah, use whatever citrus you have.

Sarah Kate (01:09:49):
Play around with different beers.

Sarah Kate (01:09:51):
The recipe is not on my way.

Sarah Kate (01:09:52):
I know it's, you know, we're going to say, is there a recipe on your website?

Sarah Kate (01:09:55):
I don't know.

Sarah Kate (01:09:55):
It's there somewhere.

Sarah Kate (01:09:56):
I've written...

Sarah Kate (01:09:57):
three posts on it over the years probably i have no idea where it is i'll try and

Sarah Kate (01:10:01):
put it on the front page so people can find it i like the sober banter shandy we

Sarah Kate (01:10:06):
can like yeah you'll put like a little recipe thing of like yeah do that then just

Sarah Kate (01:10:11):
like with more go to your website we're not gonna take credit for

Sarah Kate (01:10:18):
If you want to,

Sarah Kate (01:10:19):
you can like,

Sarah Kate (01:10:20):
but yeah,

Sarah Kate (01:10:21):
I think,

Sarah Kate (01:10:21):
I think the whole,

Sarah Kate (01:10:22):
like,

Sarah Kate (01:10:23):
you know,

Sarah Kate (01:10:23):
the,

Sarah Kate (01:10:23):
I don't know what that's,

Sarah Kate (01:10:25):
that's called,

Sarah Kate (01:10:25):
but like the,

Sarah Kate (01:10:26):
you know,

Sarah Kate (01:10:26):
the brand mission,

Sarah Kate (01:10:28):
I guess,

Sarah Kate (01:10:28):
if you want to get technical about it,

Sarah Kate (01:10:30):
it's like,

Sarah Kate (01:10:31):
can you make easy mocktails that taste like the real thing?

Sarah Kate (01:10:34):
I think that's the biggest thing for me was like,

Sarah Kate (01:10:36):
I want something to taste similar to as similar to the real thing as possible

Sarah Kate (01:10:39):
without the alcohol,

Sarah Kate (01:10:40):
without tasting the alcohol,

Sarah Kate (01:10:41):
because that's not what I want the taste of.

Sarah Kate (01:10:43):
And this was an easy one,

Sarah Kate (01:10:45):
you know,

Sarah Kate (01:10:45):
and here's another,

Sarah Kate (01:10:47):
I just want to share another tip because this is something that people always ask

Sarah Kate (01:10:50):
me like,

Sarah Kate (01:10:51):
You know, what do you drink when you go to a restaurant?

Sarah Kate (01:10:54):
You could get this at a restaurant too.

Sarah Kate (01:10:55):
You could ask them to put half a non-alcoholic beer and top it up with tonic water

Sarah Kate (01:11:00):
and a squeeze of lime or ask them to bring you slices of lime and you squeeze it

Sarah Kate (01:11:04):
until you get the taste that you want.

Sarah Kate (01:11:05):
So you can do that.

Sarah Kate (01:11:06):
You could also just ask for club soda with bitters, not related to non-alcoholic beer at all.

Sarah Kate (01:11:10):
I just ask for club soda with bitters.

Sarah Kate (01:11:13):
And so some people don't want bitters because it tastes too much like they're at point...

Sarah Kate (01:11:18):
I can't remember what it is now,

Sarah Kate (01:11:19):
but like one drop of bitter,

Sarah Kate (01:11:22):
a couple drops of bitters is under,

Sarah Kate (01:11:25):
it's still considered non-alcoholic,

Sarah Kate (01:11:27):
under 0.5,

Sarah Kate (01:11:28):
but the actual liquid of the bitters is 40 proof.

Sarah Kate (01:11:34):
So people who really need to stay away from alcohol.

Sarah Kate (01:11:37):
Yeah, exactly.

Sarah Kate (01:11:38):
So people who want to stay away from alcohol for whatever the reason is,

Sarah Kate (01:11:42):
whether it's going to trigger them,

Sarah Kate (01:11:43):
they can't have it.

Sarah Kate (01:11:44):
So there's always a big debate in the sober community about bitters.

Sarah Kate (01:11:48):
I'm just going to say, if you want, do this.

Sarah Kate (01:11:50):
You don't have to.

Sarah Kate (01:11:51):
Don't fight me.

Sarah Kate (01:11:53):
I'm just giving you a suggestion.

Sarah Kate (01:11:55):
Ask the bartender just to put a couple of dashes of Angostura bitters and some club

Sarah Kate (01:11:59):
soda,

Sarah Kate (01:12:00):
seltzer.

Sarah Kate (01:12:01):
with some ice add lime if you want to or not but that is more elevated than just

Sarah Kate (01:12:06):
club playing club soda so that's another option well that's what the bitters was

Sarah Kate (01:12:09):
for i used to do it with bitters and well it was vodka and ginger ale and you could

Sarah Kate (01:12:15):
you could almost make like a uh a vodka coke doing it that way like it could

Sarah Kate (01:12:21):
because bitters can change yeah it changes the changes the the mouth feel and the

Sarah Kate (01:12:25):
complexity of whatever you're drinking and the taste

Sarah Kate (01:12:27):
The other thing,

Sarah Kate (01:12:28):
my last tip too,

Sarah Kate (01:12:29):
is if a bar has...

Sarah Kate (01:12:31):
So sometimes bars will have a bottle of non-alcoholic something,

Sarah Kate (01:12:35):
like gin or tequila or whatever,

Sarah Kate (01:12:37):
and they make mocktails with it.

Sarah Kate (01:12:38):
And sometimes those things are really high in sugar.

Sarah Kate (01:12:40):
So I've been to bars before where... So Cedars is a brand that they have here.

Sarah Kate (01:12:45):
A lot of restaurants have it, but it's not very...

Sarah Kate (01:12:48):
It's not my favorite.

Sarah Kate (01:12:49):
It's OK, but it's like more of a herbal water.

Sarah Kate (01:12:51):
It's more like seed lip than it is a spirit.

Sarah Kate (01:12:53):
And they they make a lot of these bars will make mocktails with cedars and you

Sarah Kate (01:12:57):
can't taste the cedars in it because all the other ingredients are so full of sugar

Sarah Kate (01:13:01):
that it just overpowers the spirit.

Sarah Kate (01:13:03):
Don't be afraid to just ask for a non-alcoholic gin and tonic.

Sarah Kate (01:13:08):
I don't don't be afraid to ask for like, I don't want any of these mocktails.

Sarah Kate (01:13:12):
Just get a gin and tonic if that's what you want.

Sarah Kate (01:13:14):
Like you don't have to get a fancy mocktail at a bar.

Sarah Kate (01:13:17):
If they've got a spirit, if they've got like a ritual, a bottle of ritual gin or whatever,

Sarah Kate (01:13:21):
You know, I'm saying ritual just because it's everywhere.

Sarah Kate (01:13:23):
Just ask for a gin and tonic with lime.

Sarah Kate (01:13:26):
I think people,

Sarah Kate (01:13:27):
at least for me,

Sarah Kate (01:13:29):
as I know from the other side of the industry,

Sarah Kate (01:13:31):
is we made cocktails to try and disguise the alcohol.

Sarah Kate (01:13:36):
Like,

Sarah Kate (01:13:36):
your whole point was you're supposed to,

Sarah Kate (01:13:37):
like...

Sarah Kate (01:13:38):
And I remember,

Sarah Kate (01:13:39):
you know,

Sarah Kate (01:13:40):
I would challenge,

Sarah Kate (01:13:40):
like,

Sarah Kate (01:13:40):
oh,

Sarah Kate (01:13:41):
this isn't strong enough.

Sarah Kate (01:13:41):
Like, I want the kick.

Sarah Kate (01:13:43):
But, yeah, I mean, a mocktail is still... It's now trying to disguise...

Sarah Kate (01:13:49):
not having it not having exactly so i mean if you want you want the flavor like now

Sarah Kate (01:13:55):
we're reversed now we're not trying to have the liquor now we have the flavor of

Sarah Kate (01:14:00):
this we want you want this to just be highlighted in your drink right and like what

Sarah Kate (01:14:05):
a time to be alive exactly what a time to be alive

Colin Casey (01:14:11):
It's not just O'Doul's anymore.

Colin Casey (01:14:13):
There's a lot of options.

Sarah Kate (01:14:16):
Oh my god, O'Doul's.

Sarah Kate (01:14:17):
Grandpa's beer.

Sarah Kate (01:14:18):
That's why I always call O'Doul's.

Sarah Kate (01:14:19):
I think it's all about how you can still indulge

Sarah Kate (01:14:28):
Or it be too much like drinking 12 old duels is probably a little alarming because

Sarah Kate (01:14:33):
like that's even just a lot of carbs.

Sarah Kate (01:14:35):
And, you know, that's like a binge almost.

Sarah Kate (01:14:38):
That's like six.

Sarah Kate (01:14:38):
That's like drinking.

Sarah Kate (01:14:39):
Drinking 12 old duels will be equal to one beer.

Sarah Kate (01:14:42):
It's such a small amount of alcohol.

Sarah Kate (01:14:44):
Your body doesn't even put it into the bloodstream.

Sarah Kate (01:14:46):
Really?

Sarah Kate (01:14:47):
Or even if you had 12 Oduels,

Sarah Kate (01:14:48):
it won't go into it because it takes so long to get to the 12th beer that your

Sarah Kate (01:14:52):
body,

Sarah Kate (01:14:53):
it doesn't even metabolize the alcohol goes right through because it's such a

Sarah Kate (01:14:55):
small,

Sarah Kate (01:14:56):
minuscule amount.

Sarah Kate (01:14:57):
That's why you can eat ripe bananas and not get drunk or vanilla extract, right?

Sarah Kate (01:15:03):
Like it's such a small,

Sarah Kate (01:15:05):
that's why it's 0.5 and under because scientists who know what they're talking

Sarah Kate (01:15:08):
about understood this.

Sarah Kate (01:15:10):
That's why it's 0.5 and under because it's such a small amount of alcohol that your

Sarah Kate (01:15:17):
body doesn't even have time for it to go through the stomach lining into the

Sarah Kate (01:15:24):
bloodstream and metabolize it.

Sarah Kate (01:15:25):
It just goes right through you.

Sarah Kate (01:15:26):
So let's go get it now.

Sarah Kate (01:15:28):
yeah so even yeah you could even you could drink 12 oduels and by the time you've

Sarah Kate (01:15:32):
got there you would have gone to the bathroom 17 times yeah no that's what i was

Sarah Kate (01:15:36):
gonna say but it's like heat out seven of them i would consider that me drinking

Sarah Kate (01:15:39):
like alcoholically because like i am like addicted to like the the next thing like

Sarah Kate (01:15:44):
with when i'm drinking an athletic i'm not

Sarah Kate (01:15:47):
It's not like I'm downing them because I'm wanting to feel the effect.

Colin Casey (01:15:51):
I wanted to know if this ever happened to you.

Colin Casey (01:15:54):
Because I remember,

Colin Casey (01:15:55):
I think when I first had like a Heineken Zero and it was the first time and I drank

Colin Casey (01:16:00):
and I was like,

Colin Casey (01:16:01):
oh,

Colin Casey (01:16:01):
wow,

Colin Casey (01:16:01):
this tastes pretty much just like a Heineken.

Colin Casey (01:16:04):
Like I would say 90% there.

Colin Casey (01:16:06):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (01:16:07):
And it was also the first time I finished it.

Colin Casey (01:16:10):
I really liked it.

Colin Casey (01:16:11):
I was surprised how much I liked it.

Colin Casey (01:16:12):
And then I was like, I'm good.

Colin Casey (01:16:14):
And it was different because if it was a real drink,

Colin Casey (01:16:18):
I would need a second and a third and a fourth.

Colin Casey (01:16:21):
But when I was drinking a non-alcoholic beer and I finished one and I was like, okay, I'm good.

Colin Casey (01:16:26):
I'm good.

Rachel Casey (01:16:27):
You scratched the itch.

Colin Casey (01:16:28):
Yeah,

Colin Casey (01:16:29):
but I also wondered,

Colin Casey (01:16:30):
is this what it feels to be normal for people who are able to handle their alcohol

Colin Casey (01:16:34):
where they just drink one beer or two and they're like,

Colin Casey (01:16:37):
okay,

Colin Casey (01:16:37):
I'm great.

Sarah Kate (01:16:37):
We will never know.

Sarah Kate (01:16:38):
We will never know.

Colin Casey (01:16:40):
And I was like, is this what it's like to just drink one and be done and be satisfied?

Colin Casey (01:16:45):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (01:16:45):
Probably.

Sarah Kate (01:16:46):
And I think that,

Sarah Kate (01:16:48):
well,

Sarah Kate (01:16:48):
on the one hand,

Sarah Kate (01:16:49):
the reason why we want to have that second drink is because alcohol has already,

Sarah Kate (01:16:55):
we've trained our brain as to what's coming.

Sarah Kate (01:16:59):
That's why we want the second.

Sarah Kate (01:17:00):
It's addictive.

Sarah Kate (01:17:01):
The brain knows that we're going to feel good if we have a second drink.

Sarah Kate (01:17:05):
And so it's an addictive substance.

Sarah Kate (01:17:08):
There's no alcohol in these drinks.

Sarah Kate (01:17:11):
So there's nothing telling your brain that

Sarah Kate (01:17:13):
oh, you should have another one.

Sarah Kate (01:17:15):
You're going to feel good.

Sarah Kate (01:17:17):
There's no dopamine that you get from one drink is the thing that's fueling your brain.

Sarah Kate (01:17:24):
Oh, we should have another one so we feel good.

Sarah Kate (01:17:26):
These non-alcoholic beers, they don't mess with your dopamine at all.

Sarah Kate (01:17:30):
There's nothing there to say, oh, this feels good.

Sarah Kate (01:17:32):
I want more.

Sarah Kate (01:17:33):
There's no pleasure center reaction.

Sarah Kate (01:17:38):
I've often been jealous of those people too that can have one glass of wine and

Sarah Kate (01:17:43):
not even finish it like what who doesn't finish their wine like that still baffles

Sarah Kate (01:17:49):
me that still makes me like how do you do that how do you do that yeah anyway crazy

Sarah Kate (01:17:54):
we will never know but better to be on the side of things than

Sarah Kate (01:17:58):
Absolutely.

Sarah Kate (01:17:58):
And I just want to thank you again.

Sarah Kate (01:18:00):
I know we've taken quite a bit of your time and I am so thankful.

Sarah Kate (01:18:02):
I hope maybe after, if you have your book done, we would love to have you back on.

Sarah Kate (01:18:08):
Please, more stories.

Sarah Kate (01:18:11):
So I will put all of your information in the links and notes below in both on Substack.

Sarah Kate (01:18:18):
And I can also send you a copy.

Sarah Kate (01:18:19):
So if you want to post it yourself on your stuff, you're more than welcome to.

Sarah Kate (01:18:23):
I'm

Sarah Kate (01:18:24):
We're just grateful that you came on and shared some of your, some good, clean fun.

Sarah Kate (01:18:29):
Well, it was an honor and a privilege to have this time with you guys.

Sarah Kate (01:18:33):
I love connecting with other people in the community,

Sarah Kate (01:18:36):
especially people who have been,

Sarah Kate (01:18:38):
are already,

Sarah Kate (01:18:39):
like,

Sarah Kate (01:18:39):
we're at the same level in our,

Sarah Kate (01:18:41):
not level,

Sarah Kate (01:18:42):
but the same length of our sobriety.

Sarah Kate (01:18:43):
It's so nice to talk to other people who are like, oh, yeah, we're experiencing the same thing.

Sarah Kate (01:18:47):
Like, look at us go!

Sarah Kate (01:18:48):
Woo!

Sarah Kate (01:18:50):
it's really really cool how it evolves and there is something special about someone

Sarah Kate (01:18:53):
who got sober even within like that same year you know because you're and you're

Sarah Kate (01:18:57):
only a few like we're months yeah uh either or backwards and it's it is a really i

Sarah Kate (01:19:05):
think we're in a very special time of yeah we are and there it is growing i mean

Sarah Kate (01:19:10):
i'll be cool to see in 10 years like

Sarah Kate (01:19:13):
even we're saying now, like it's booming.

Sarah Kate (01:19:15):
We're going to probably look back and laugh and be like, wow, we were like, we had no idea.

Sarah Kate (01:19:19):
No idea.

Sarah Kate (01:19:20):
Yeah.

Sarah Kate (01:19:22):
But also the last thing I was going to say too,

Sarah Kate (01:19:23):
is it's just so wonderful to be able to like,

Sarah Kate (01:19:26):
see people like you guys who are trying to like spread the joy,

Sarah Kate (01:19:32):
spread the,

Sarah Kate (01:19:32):
spread the mission and the movement of like getting people to realize like what a

Sarah Kate (01:19:37):
life hack it is to not drink.

Sarah Kate (01:19:39):
And so I just want to say thank you for,

Sarah Kate (01:19:42):
you know,

Sarah Kate (01:19:42):
putting this out in the world every week or two.

Sarah Kate (01:19:45):
And like,

Sarah Kate (01:19:45):
I don't know what your schedule is,

Sarah Kate (01:19:46):
but I do know you've I've watched a couple of them already.

Sarah Kate (01:19:49):
And it's like, you guys are, you know, very special.

Sarah Kate (01:19:52):
And so keep doing this because it's really such a thrill to meet you.

Sarah Kate (01:19:55):
And I'm so grateful to be here today.

Sarah Kate (01:19:57):
and same to you i was gonna say keep doing it because i know it's helping people

Sarah Kate (01:20:01):
see that we can still do all the same things just without the like regret shame and

Sarah Kate (01:20:09):
embarrassment you know you can have

Sarah Kate (01:20:17):
it is not boring to get sober that is definitely not something i would say so

Sarah Kate (01:20:21):
absolutely yeah well thank you again thank you so much i hope everyone comes in you

Sarah Kate (01:20:27):
have so many recipes at left side too so like there is literally something for

Sarah Kate (01:20:31):
everyone