[00:00:00] 

[00:00:05] Dan: Hello, and welcome back to we, not me, the podcast where we explore, how humans connect to get stuff done together. I'm Dan hammond. 

[00:00:13] Pia: I am Paley. 

[00:00:15] Dan: And how the devil are you purely? I think you've been a little bit of an adventure. 

[00:00:18] Pia: I have been on one of those infamous driving adventures, nine hours in my Ute, up to Byron and nine hours back. And I'm definitely inspired by a conversation. We had a few months back when we thought about. Growing Squadify and whether we'd make a nice big corporate office, and then we decided, no, we would never have a corporate office because we would know where to put it because the entire team is spread across the planet.

[00:00:43] And, um, really got excited by that to become a, you know, a work from anywhere type organization. So, we're thinking of moving the entire family up. Must. I think I said before we sell the house and then, so I went up to the outskirts of Byron to go and see what was out there. Had some couple of close encounters, not with the locals, but with four legged creatures, uh, thought I was going to check out chicken coop, but actually I discovered as I was on the wrong side of a locked door, that I was face-to-face with a gun.

[00:01:12] Which then gave me the evil and the real estate agent said, oh, he didn't actually meet the goat, which I then panicked a bit and said, no, no, no. She said, well, the last person that actually got in there got chased off out of the, out of the paddock. And all they saw was him running in the opposite direction, chased by the goats.

[00:01:28] So I'm really quite lucky that I didn't actually get into that, that 

[00:01:30] Dan: classic Miranda moment from ups. 

[00:01:32] Pia: it wasn't around the moment. I have to say that, uh, it was me talking to the goat, just trying to reassure it. But anyway, so. House was good. and, um, yeah, I think we might be buying it. So it was all really quite exciting. Bit of a big, big move to a new adventure.

[00:01:47] Dan: And I think this is probably, I guess, something that's sort of next wave of what's happening to teams at the moment, which is the, um, the move to remote working means that people are probably going to be starting to think, well, why am I sitting on this expensive real estate? I could go off and live somewhere else. And we live in, we live out of, out of London and I'm sure that we're going to see a few people thinking rather than living. Clap them or somewhere I can, I can go and live in, in yorkshire and have a larger, 

[00:02:14] Pia: Nothing wrong with clapper, 

[00:02:15] Dan: capital's beautiful. Um, but yeah, there'll be a really interesting impact, I think, on the, on teams coming up on shore. So you're part of a movement as ever pair.

[00:02:24] Pia: Well, it's, it'll be fun. It'll be a few interesting stories of all the animals and wildlife. I'll be joining snake, Facebook groups, apparently just to determine water on our property. So there'll be plenty of adventures.

[00:02:36] Dan: Doesn't bear thinking about.

[00:02:37] Pia: But it has been a bit, there has been a bit of sad news hasn't that done? So, and I thought that was quite, you know, timely given our guests that we're having this week. 

[00:02:46] Dan: Yes, unfortunately. Yeah, we, we, we, our guest this week is, um, Eric Thompson, who for 30 years has graced our screens, particularly in Australia, but globally, I've seen him some really amazing films and. Talking to us about life on set. And, uh, so the really sad news about Halina Hutchins, cinematographer, being involved in the accident on the set of rust this week, really after that conversation really resonated and just really brought it home, how the climate created on set. And we don't know what happened there of course yet, but it made me think about what that would have been like and the conditions that could have created such a terrible.

[00:03:26] Pia: So I think it'll be, um, it'd be really interesting to hear what Eric says and how he sees. That large set as a player of the, of team members all together with a single focus to get that vision out. And as he talks about, you know, all you see as the person on the screen, but he's actually going to tell us what sits behind that and give us a little peek behind the curtain. . 

[00:03:54] Eric Thompson. Welcome to we. Not me. It is wonderful to see you here and have you join us.

[00:04:00] Erik: Thank you very much, Pia. Nice to see you guys as well. Hey dad.

[00:04:03] Pia: So we have seen you for many years on a screen, so we w we're hoping to get behind the screen and talk to you a bit about. How people interact the teamwork. But before we do that, well, we get into the guts of it. Tell us a bit about yourself. Cause there'll be people listening to this who may not know you as well as we certainly do down here in Australia and New Zealand.

[00:04:26] Erik: Well, okay. In a nutshell, I've been an actor for 31 years. I trained, I did a bachelor of arts in English, Jewish drama school, and I've been working in theater for five years in New Zealand, came to Australia in 1995. I've done catalysts, TV series and films. I've done over about five or maybe 600 hours of TV drama. Most recently, I've been doing. Um, my own series called aftertaste, which for the ABC about an angry chef, who's been brought back down to earth. I did a BBC show called the luminaries, um, and a film called coming home in the dark, which has had its world premiere at the Sundance film festival. So, um, that sort of brings us up to now. 

[00:05:03] So I've been doing this for a long time to the point where. There is nothing else I can do. It's too late to change the river. The river is almost at the sea and I, this is what I am basically.

[00:05:14] Pia: This is like what you say in therapy. This is it. I can'tI can't change anymore.

[00:05:19] Erik: guess the thing is I've been fortunate enough to have a decent enough career that on one level that's good, but the other level of I've developed no other skills. I can't even be a barista. So, you know, unfortunately you're stuck with me in this, in this, uh, manifestation,

[00:05:33] Pia: We'll keep rooting for you or try and get the low, get you to wear more logos and things

[00:05:37] Erik: more luxurious, but maybe we should admire.

[00:05:39] Dan: I think you're quite lucky, Eric, by this time most actors have picked up a good portfolio of other skills. I think it shows you've been pretty busy with your acting over the years.

[00:05:47] Erik: Yeah, well, that's, that's what I'm thinking. You know, I have painted ceilings. So if you have any work, you never know the, Hey, look in this, in this business, you've got to keep, everything's not a possibility.

[00:05:56] Pia: So let's dive into, let's dive into behind the scenes. So let's think about this in terms of teams and, and it might seem maybe to, to people listening, thinking, what is this a bit of an odd choice sort of looking at at the arts and thinking of teams, but we saw that there was a real link. So, so tell us what part does teamwork play on the set of a production, 

[00:06:20] Erik: It's absolutely everything, you know, if, if you can look at what happens is the way a television show is put together in a way of film crew is constructed. It's kind of like a it's slightly essence of society. And that we draw from. All the different aspects of society. We've got tradies in terms of carpenters, building sets, we've got electricians, uh, doing lighting.

[00:06:42] We've got, um, usually former, um, forces, personnel being grips, carrying stuff around, and you've got makeup, artists wardrobe. You've got script writers. You've got people who are, who are really, really good at management, I don't know how you classify actors, whether they've didn't get enough attention as a kid, or they just love still at telling stories. Um, and then you've got people who have to sell it. So look at any in any, if you really want to look at it, it's, uh, it's very much a cross section of society that we work with. And when you walk onto a film set, you're generally speaking, you see people working and then you'll see a lot of people standing around., Everyone has their chance to do their job. Uh, at their specific opportunity and they have to jump in and do it as efficiently as they can. And then the next person has a chance. And if anything goes wrong, the people standing around have to jump in and fix it very, very quickly because time is as the saying goes money. I mean, you never really see that. I don't think it more than its pure sense. Uh, particularly in Australia, Australian film industry, because we don't have that kind of, uh, deep pockets that the big, the big international industries have

[00:07:49] Dan: so when you're working, when you're actually acting, you know, we, who do you see first to primarily as the team around you? Do you, do you see the people on set? 

[00:07:59] Erik: The primary focus for us is to see the other actors, to see the director and to see the other actors. And if a film set is put together well enough, um, you really, you want to believe as much in the situation that you're in. So you don't really want to see a grip walkthrough the back of shot, even though he's not on camera, but behind your eye, they say clear the lines, so if you're looking at another actor, you don't want people moving around over there, cause it'll just take you out of the scene. So everything again is all working towards that moment where the camera starts rolling and we capture that moment. So everything is working towards that one moment and then between action and cut, everyone else is quiet, and then as soon as they say cuts, it usually just all hell breaks, loose as it is reset back to the beginning of the scene.

[00:08:47] So yeah, ideally you don't really want to see too much, but then at the same time, the camaraderie is really important to you see the crews, you know, pre pandemic, you'd see the crews have lunch and breakfast and you'd have, you know, passing and the corridors and whatever, and, you know, trying to keep, um, as congenial, uh, uh, rapport with everyone because, um, you know, it's, it's, it's a really, really a bad, you know, the film sets that really worked, that really worked very well, uh, the most inclusive and the ones that celebrate each individual cog in the machine. Um, and, uh, and those are usually other productions that are whether or not the piece of work itself is brilliant, the experience of making it as is usually the most satisfying.

[00:09:31] Pia: So how do they do that? How'd you get that inclusiveness? What have you seen that makes people feel like they're part of something bigger?

[00:09:38] Erik: Well, the game and the productions that I've seen that work really well. It, it does come from the top and it comes from the, the top, um, making sure, just doing the small things that actually, you know, really just give everyone all the way at the coalface a sense that they're a vital part of creating whatever it is that you do, whether you're a lighting assistant, shifting lights around or walking up the red carpet and con, the guy walked out the red carpet and Karen wouldn't be there without the lighting assistant. That's just the reality of it.

[00:10:09] So as an employer, and I've been in that position as a producer about architects, which I'm doing at the moment is that it's, it's, it's very important that you create a sense of inclusivity from, from the outset, and those are done by the small things, communication, saying, thank you, being present, giving the sense that the, that the, uh, avenues of communication are open, or channels are open for communication, that, that people have an opportunity to express themselves without judgment. Again, as you set that up really, really well from the outset, then a lot of your other problems that could develop, tend to, uh, tend to not either come up or a quickly resolved.

[00:10:48] Pia: That's quite interesting. It's sort of takes us back to, um, Dr. Jess Thompson had talked to us about psych safety, which was that ability to be able to speak or to feel comfortable, to be uncomfortable, and to be able to say what you need to say. Cause I would imagine you, you don't want your creativity and your talents curbed by a culture that doesn't enable you to be at your best. I would imagine that that's almost palpable if the, if that's go 

[00:11:15] Erik: Yeah. And it's probably in our business, it's probably at its most raw because you're dealing with in those human emotions, you're kind of peddling and that's what people are tuning into watch. They want humans watching humans, emote. They're very tough audience humans, you know, because they all understand what it is to be a human. So when you know how it feels.

[00:11:35] So certainly in our business. But I think, I think that that translates through to every, every business in terms of, uh, people need to be able to feel that that idea that they might've had, which, you know, might be the thing that solves the problem isn't going to be laughed down because you never know where that's going to come from. It's really stands in our favor if everyone feels that they can actually offer up a little bit of a little bit of a, an odd day every now and again that said he Haitians to jump in, a lot of judgment comes around that, and I think if someone's offering up too much, uh, opinions, uh, out of, out of place, then you've got, it's a fine line that you'll never get anything done.

[00:12:17] Dan: And how do you create that Eric quickly? Because I imagine, you know, you land, you, you, you arrive on site, you've got a new team. Some people, you probably know others you don't. 

[00:12:25] Erik: Well, I think it's, there's nothing uh, more useful than just like a, pre-shoot get together few snags on a body and a couple of beers, you know, it's not about the alcohol. It's not, not about getting off your net or anything. It's, you know, I've worked on productions. It's about actually getting people together to break through that initial layer of anxiety or apprehension, social awkwardness, and the best way to do that is away from the working environment if you can.

[00:12:53] I did a production in New Zealand called 800 Words and that neither the network, nor the company that I worked for saw the value, the dollar value. Having appreciate drinks. They couldn't see it because it wasn't in the budget. So I had it in my house and got everyone together and it was such a great way to start the whole production because we got to know each other. And then when we rocked up on set on, on Monday, we'd already busted through those initial anxieties.

[00:13:19] Pia: And I think that's an important part. Isn't it of everyone feeling like they're part of this bigger production and everyone's got a part to play. If you don't recognize that at the pre-stage, it's a bit much to expect it when it's actually meant to be happening.

[00:13:33] Erik: Yeah, because, people might decide to become resentful. And, uh, once, once that kind of negative emotion is, is inserted, it's sometimes very hard to shake it off because it becomes about an us and them situation. And once you get an us and them situation, people feel manipulated. That's it, that's a very hard ship to turn around. 

[00:13:52] Dan: And Erik looking more broadly out. The team is impacted by a lot of people who are maybe not present or, um, out there, some, you know, the, the producers I'm guessing and other folks, how much impact can they have even from a far on what's happening actually inside that team that's working on the ground?

[00:14:11] Erik: I think there's a good example. It's just the sending of a thank you card or a welcome card to people who've been traveling from interstate or, or putting on drinks the end of the week again, um, maybe, and most production is do that where you, you, you, there might be a day where you know, suddenly there'll be ice creams getting handed around sets or what you it's sounding like we're really easy to um be being manipulations on one level, but it's, uh, or easy to please, but you know, generally speaking people are, you know, it's just those little things that make, so that, that can come from a far, but certainly, it certainly has to come from a far because project producers want you, that you want the people working for it to be working at their best and enjoying the experience and that invariably, that comes across.

[00:14:57] Pia: I've got this sort of image. And I think it might be wrong that, you know, the actors are like the centerpiece with everyone else running around. But I guess, because it's got to be organized, it might be a bit different. Is it hierarchical?

[00:15:08] Erik: Yeah, well, you've got the creative structure and the creative structure is, you know, writers usually these days are on set and they're used as a kind of brains trust for the director of if he can't remember what happens the next scene or he's forgotten, or he, he or she has forgotten the character thread line having the writer there to kind of advisors being good. So you've got to kind of got that creative, soft core, and then around them as a, as a team, which, which protects them and moves the production forward.

[00:15:36] You've got to keep, so you gotta start at the beginning of the, get to the end of the day, and you've got six minutes of screen, time to shoot, it's been broken down into the one and a half hours per scene or whatever it is. And the first assistant director is the person that who is the Sergeant major, they keep the tide coming in, they don't let things dissipate. Uh, their role is very, very important because, um, the way they speak to people, if they speak too much, Their voice can just become this kind of drug. And when they've got something important to say, You too, not because they just say too much information. So the best, first ideas I've ever worked with, but people who are quiet, they step, they sit back and when they do speak, you listen to every single word. Uh, and generally speaking, they're loved by every different department.

[00:16:24] Um, underneath them. You've got the second day. They're usually offset and they're creating the, putting the schedule together for the next day and making sure that all the extras are gonna turn up on time and the actors are going to turn up on time and how the S how the days will be put together. And they liaise with the production office.

[00:16:38] And then third aid, third assistant director deals brings the actors on set, brings the extras on set, moves the background action around. Um, so they're the kind of, they are, they're all protecting the vision of your creative core, which is the director, and then everywhere, like I said before, there's people who move a camera, there's people who light for the camera, there's the makeup artists and the wardrobe, and they all working on the actors. But what happens in the frame is the most important thing, so, um, actors are on the frame, so they've got to be protected and looked after, and makeup and made to look the best and look appropriate for whatever scene that they're in. So they do tend to be the center of the focus, but that's the whole point. 

[00:17:19] Pia: but it's interesting because the intent is about, as you, as you talked about it, this creative core, it's about the output. It's not about the person that the oldest doing your work by the sounds of things like everybody else.

[00:17:32] Erik: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Then that's, that's it. And then I think there's a lot of, uh, I suppose misconceptions they're perpetuated by some actors and some creatives I think is being precious or whatever, but I mean, it's a, it's a kind of low blow when you say that about, about artists, because ultimately, you know, that the sort of sense of perfectionism that exists in this business, but that, that exists in every business.

[00:17:53] We're just visible much more visible. The main thing is that none of us and I, you know, I said, I've said it myself, you know, at the end of the day, if the scene is not looking good or your performance isn't good because something is, the culture is bad behind the camera and you're feeling uncomfortable and you're feeling not supported, no, one's going to know that when they watch your performance and just, uh, he stopped doing a very good job as he not going to give him a job. This is it. This, this is all they see. They're not going to go. Oh, that was a badly scheduled day.

[00:18:23] Pia: he obviously didn't get caught at the beginning of filming.

[00:18:26] Erik: didn't get a card at the beginning of filming. He should've got a fruit box, didn't get 

[00:18:30] Pia: That was what was missing. 

[00:18:31] Erik: Again, it's really is the simple, simple things that make, uh, that lubricate a good well-run set.

[00:18:36] Pia: something I'm really intrigued to ask you about. So what happens in sex scenes? Because you've got a really intimate 

[00:18:44] Erik: when a man loves a woman or a woman loves him, or man loves a man. 

[00:18:49] Pia: That makes it much clearer. Actually, I, that wasn't quite the angle, but I mean, I remember watching, um, well Bridgeton and being like, well, that was, that was quite a hot racy series. But then I read about the number of people that were watching, but mainly to protect the sort of heritage piece of furniture, they were knocked over in some sort of hot flush of a moment 

[00:19:12] Erik: well, the teamwork is, it's the flip side of the corn from a fight, the choreographed fight scene, um, uh, choreographed love making scene. You basically everyone's taken through that. And, uh, agreements and consents are had by both actors or presuming there's only two in the seat, that everyone's gotta be comfortable and everyone has to know exactly what's going to go on. And once you've got that structure and everything's agreed upon, there's an intimacy coordinator and they're quite new because we used to have five choreographers, but with, with intimate scenes, the director usually goes, I just, just do what you'd usually do. And, you know, the actors would be standing there going. You know, when they say action, you've got a kiss. If, you know, what kind of kisses, what kind of kisses it supposed to be?

[00:19:57] And nowadays we have those stacks to Harvey Weinstein and the likes and the like, but going back further a little bit further, but certainly right now, it's very much at the forefront of consent and making sure that everyone's comfortable.

[00:20:11] And then once you've got the structure, you can add the lyricism and the, you know, not the real emotion, but the performed emotion and really, you know, from an actor's perspective, it's very important to protect yourself between action and cat and make sure, especially cat, when they say cat, you've really got to step back and kind of walk away and cause two people in close proximity, you know, certain, uh, chemicals are going to produce and, uh, basic physiological, um, situations can occur, you know, they can, they can not always, but they can, and you've got to make sure that, yeah, again, it's a, it's a very protected and important part of the job otherwise, cause you've got to go home to your partners and your wives and all that kind of stuff. So it's most important that, that, that it's well-protected. 

[00:21:01] Dan: that's really good to hear I mean that's a sort of uh, almost like an extreme version of creating that site safety as well. And the team, as you say, the, the Harvey Weinstein, um, episodes among many others is, is, is it's all about protecting them, but it's, it's a rare situation in that team to have to have an actual coordinator for that but it's good to, good to hear that it's happening, Erik.

[00:21:22] Erik: Yeah. And I think at a lot of businesses these days, there are people who are, who are coming in and, and making sure that the culture is right around all of that. I mean, it, we, we have it in our, in our business in front of the camera, but also, you know, on call sheets and everything these days, there are things that never used to be on there saying we respect the rights of people. If you there's a list that comes out of things that you can do a say in inappropriate behavior and perhaps that's all, it's all part of it. Like it is probably among many business.

[00:21:50] Dan: That's good to hear. You talked about the creative core and the director, um, in all teams, the role of the team leaders, obviously important. How does it work? Um, how does the dynamic work with the director in terms of they own it, the sort of auteur versus having the, the other people, the actors and other people, on set, actually contributing to that creation. How, how does that dynamic work at its best? And how can that fall over?

[00:22:15] Erik: Yeah. Well, I think, I think everyone wants to, uh, be part of the creative vision at that sort of soft core of creativity. and the actors have opinions and the director has opinions and you know, the director, the good ones they'll come in and they'll kind of offer up a structure and they'll say, this is, this is the basic structure of how I'm seeing this. And then as the actor, you can be. Add to that structure again, it starts with a foundation and then we can all add to it and have them do a very quick negotiation usually, or we'll negotiate. You would have talked about this on the phone prior to this usually, but on set, sometimes you got to make some decisions.

[00:22:55] And by then again, going right back to that very beginning barometer of when you, when you have that initial bonding experience. And that trust is formed early, then those things are usually resolved pretty, pretty well, and pretty positively for the outcome of the, of the whole project. But I've got people that for some reason, and everyone has them that the minute that person walks into the room, very few people am I safe in my life, but that personal walks into the room and there's a kind of instant tension within me and I know that we don't actually have that rapport and then it, then it's not a clear creative kind of warm and kind of a positive thing. It's, it's a kind of dance around ego, and those are hard ones. Um, and I don't know, I really don't vote personally, I just make sure that we're just top talking on topic and I'll get through that, the situations without trying to get too personal and just look forward to the end of the day. Really

[00:23:56] Pia: Chewing through time. 

[00:23:57] Erik: Chewing through time.

[00:23:58] Pia: many of us listening now would know that experience, you know, that's somebody that you're working with either on a project or becomes renowned and what you want is, is that the interaction you have with someone leaves a positive outcome, and sometimes it's a negative outcome that you're left with. And it's a hemorrhaging effect of the relationship and the experience, and sometimes people aren't aware of that. So. That's an important lesson for all of us to be aware that some of us are, we're not always on our top game and we don't want to leave people in that situation.

[00:24:26] Erik: Absolutely. Yeah. Cause it can disappear. It can dissipate it. It can not go through the team very quickly. If there's a, suddenly you've got a personality clash between two people it can really change the day for everyone or change the whole experience for everyone. So I think it's again, when you do have that. That kind of tension between yourself and another person that, um, you just have to find the best and most amenable way of actually dealing with it without affecting anything and just making it not about you making it about remembering that we're all here to do the one thing and that we all want to get home in one piece 

[00:25:01] Pia: yeah. Generally a good idea. job done. all in one piece. And then, you know, so I guess one of my last questions is where have you had that experience where you've gone poop and it is a teamwork thing. It's either a miss coordination or it's too strong, a personality or that negative impact or, you talked about when the dollars pressures are on

[00:25:22] Erik: There's a lot of money involved, basically every dollar is accounted for and time is money. And then on top of that, you have people's creative visions and I've seen situations where the money's running out. Um, the producers are concerned that we're going over budget, we're going and we're running out of time. The writer is then compromised. The director is then compromised. The producers come from their offices upstairs and suddenly they're on set. And that you're aware over by what they call tent city, which is usually where the monitors are and the directors set. And there's two monitors watching what the cameras are doing.

[00:26:00] There's like 10 people where they use it. They'd usually be three. Every decision is discussed. Every decision comes down to, um, and, and basically the pressure just builds and builds and builds. And, um, And that's just a terrible environment to be in because you, you know, that, that, you know, everything is this tension and you can't work with you can't work at your optimum with tension in the air. No one can. I mean, you can find a ways I suppose, of pushing forward and we all have to, but, um, I look back on those experiences and yeah, like, you don't want to have too many days like that or weeks or months like that in your life. We've got a limited amount of time and limited amount of professional choices that we make. So you want to, you want to try and stay as far away from that situation as possible, but it happens. It just happens. And and that particular situation culminated in a full glass of red wine being thrown from one creative at another creative, um, at the wrap party. So, um.

[00:27:01] Pia: Did they catch it?

[00:27:02] Erik: I think they caught it all over themselves. 

[00:27:04] Dan: Yeah. It's a sort of archetypal sort of situation that we sort of imagine isn't it, but it's good to hear from you, take us into your world that it's not always like that Eric, but, uh, over, um, and thank you so much for joining us today. Um, as we just wrap up, how would you encapsulate your experience of working in teams in groups of humans over those 30 years? What what's your takeaway that, um, you could leave us with?

[00:27:29] Erik: The social aspect of my work is at the forefront. I really, I mean, I enjoy the creative side of it, but what I enjoy the little exchanges that I have with people and the, uh, the standing in those beautiful environments and getting through, uh, completing our jobs and standing back and congratulating each other and going we've done this. It's, it's going to be sad to not see you tomorrow at the cause the job's over. And, um, it's really about the human connection for me and I think, especially in my business when we're kind of reflecting humanity on seeing that on screen. Um, I think that if you, if you make that human connection, most of your jobs done, um, and so that's, something that I kind of aim for is the at its pure foundation.

[00:28:10] 

[00:28:14] Dan: You know that piece about the pre-moment really landed for me from what Eric was saying. Um, he really took us into his world, but that idea that while we see them working, they've got to work on sat together. There's a, there's that? What do you call that? Pre-moment how do you connect? Together before you start doing the work that really landed for me. And it's something I've seen in teams in, in many walks of life, but it's probably less conscious than he was talking about. There was, um, it was that, that, that was a very useful point. I think anyone could take away

[00:28:44] Pia: And I think what was interesting for me is you, you might make the assumption that it's all about the actor and the actor singular singular talent, but, but actually it's about setting the right conditions and anyone in the team could do that. I mean, Eric talked about the, you know, when there wasn't a pre-party they needed to set the right tone for the team on set. So he hosted everybody at his home in New Zealand, and I just thought, a you've got somebody who's stepping up into that role, but seeing it as important. Whereas sometimes we get blindsided by the talent and, and in all of that. Whereas in actual fact, you've got to set the right, the right tone and the right conditions for everyone 

[00:29:27] inclusively to be successful. And I think that can be applied right across the board. All types of teams, all kinds of settings.

[00:29:36] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. He talked about the creative cord in there And I think you know, you can be mistaken for thinking that was the director, but it was clear that what he was trying to do with. Well, they did before was to make sure that everyone is involved in that creative. Cool. Everyone has a, a view on the thing and inclusion seem to be really important so that people can speak up because actually everyone has a different view of the, of what you're trying to create.

[00:30:01] So, uh, so being really conscious about, um, about that point of bringing everyone in at the start really landed for me. And in a way, quite to be honest with you, quite surprising for me, you do think that. The, the, the images of the actors being the sort of, uh, the prima Donna is in the middle. And, but actually Eric's view is no, everyone has a part to play here. And it was, uh, it was very pleasing to hear.

[00:30:24] Pia: And I think also what that does is that everyone becomes accountable for the success of the outcome, which is what we see on the screen. And, but that's the end point. And therefore you want everyone to have that attention to detail. You want everyone to be aligned, which, you know, applies to. All organizations and all teams, but quite often it is going back to what Owen was talking about.

[00:30:51] You know, you end up with a team of champions and I would imagine, you know, in an artistic setting that could get end up creating, you know, a few artistic types of conversations, you know? And so, whereas if you go the other way, uh, it's more of a, definitely more of an abundant mindset. Um, and sometimes, you know, we've seen in the corporate setting that could be ego status, rank, and title that can get in the way so I think that was quite an insight for all of us.

[00:31:21] Dan: it was, it was. And now obviously pier, you asked him about sex, which surprisingly yielded some useful insights.

[00:31:29] Pia: Well, I D I can't believe it. It took me into what I was six or seven episodes before I could actually ask that question. But anyway, this new role of interim intimacy coordinator is, um, is, well, that's a new one, I have to say. And, um, in a way you think of the the me too movement. And you think, gosh, I bet they were hanging out for an intimacy court. So, so brilliant that, that now is done in a way that is respectful of the artist's talent, but respectful of human beings

[00:31:58] Dan: yeah, no, it w it actually did yield something useful. And again, that safety on set. You honestly, you think back of all the films that were made in the Weinstein era and before, and just think it gives you a shutter, doesn't it to think what was, um, you know, how unsafe people must've felt. So this. Really positive movement and, uh, um, yeah.

[00:32:16] Great to hear that that role actually exists. And, uh, you know, it was yielded by your question, so very glad you covered that. Um, the other line he used that leapt out from me. It was clear the eye line. I'd never heard that before, but it seems that in that sort of lights, camera action sequence, there is a clear, the eye-line so that the actor, when they're in that moment and clearly they give themselves a lot, it's a demanding and a vulnerable moment that they don't need to see people wandering about in their eyeline. It struck me that that's a brilliant example of creating the conditions for success for the actors. It'd be easy to say. Yeah everyone move around. It's fine. But actually, no, we're going to think about that person. What do they need? They do not need distraction.

[00:32:59] So there's a broader. Piece there that we can all do for each other in teams, which is what does that person need and need to succeed and and give them those conditions, whatever they are. So that, that jumped off me. I love the phrase clear the eyeline.

[00:33:13] Pia: I thought it was clear the eyeliner, but obviously that wasn't what he was saying. It was, I lied, 

[00:33:17] Dan: that's after. 

[00:33:18] Pia: Oh yeah. Just checking. Um, also though it was about respecting people and, and again the higher intent and giving people the space, but respecting what they need to be successful, and everybody within the team doing that for the greater good. So an amazing, amazing insight. I will never look at a production really quite in the same way. I feel like we've, we've a little peep behind the curtain.

[00:33:44] Dan: it took us into his world. And, um, next week, pier, we're talking about this word. That's been much maligned, we're talking about agile, um, in 

[00:33:53] Pia: Not to do with yoga 

[00:33:54] Dan: no, exactly. Quite surprising really. 

[00:33:56] Pia: Or the splits. 

[00:33:57] Dan: now agile teams. And we'll have that pizza's to talk to us about that. which should be, uh, uh, should be a wonderful conversation and a completely different view actually back into the big corporate world and how you can really transform teams and where they operate to deliver value.

[00:34:13] Pia: Not knows a lot about agile transformation and she's got some really, really clear views about the value of it. And, um, and the way it can transform our way of work. So I think we'll learn a lot and we'll, and we'll get the right definitions and understanding of, of what it all is.

[00:34:28] Dan: That will be helpful. And that's it. For this episode, you can find show notes and resources at Squadify dot net. Just click on the we, not me podcast link. If you've enjoyed the show, please do share the love and recommend it to your friends. We not me as produced by Mark Steadman of origin.fm. Thank you so much for listening. it's goodbye for me.

[00:34:47] Pia: And it's goodbye from me.