A key component of the modern world economy, the chemical
industry delivers products and innovations to enhance everyday life.
It is also an industry in transformation where chemical executives and
workers are delivering growth and industry changing advancements while
responding to pressures from investors, regulators, and public opinion.
Discover how leading companies are approaching these challenges
here on the chemical show.
Join Victoria Meyer, president of Progressio Global and
host of the chemical show.
As she speaks with executives across the industry and learns how they are leading
their companies to grow, transform, and push industry boundaries on all frontiers.
Here's your host, Victoria Meyer.
VictoriaM: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer.
Welcome back to the Chemical Show, where Chemicals Means Business.
Today, I am speaking with Sean Riley, who is the President and COO
of Veson Nautical, where he leads sales and marketing, professional
services, and all the things that you would assume go into operations.
Sean's going to talk a little bit about Veson, and we are also going to discuss
how to gain a decision advantage.
In this increasingly complex world of maritime and Marine shipping.
So we've got a lot of things to cover today.
Sean, welcome to the chemical show.
Sean Riley: Thanks for having me.
Excited to be here.
VictoriaM: Excited to have you here.
So let's just start with you.
What's your origin story and how did you get into this world of maritime?
Sean Riley: So my origin.
I fell into maritime, but I'm Boston based.
I'm, Boston born and raised.
So I'm local as local comes, And I started my career working, on,
the strategy consulting side.
So working with both private equity businesses, private equity companies
on due diligence, as well as, operating businesses on big strategic
initiatives, and then joined a supply chain software business.
There was software and data to the power and oil and gas.
industry.
And I spent a number of years there and along the way I came across this company,
Veson, that was looking for someone.
And it turned out the founder, went to business school here in
Boston that my sister went to.
And I said, do you know him?
She said, I turns out I sat next to him for six months, in class.
And so he made the intro and, next thing, John Veson and I had been working
together for, 12 and a half years.
VictoriaM: That's very cool.
yeah.
Serendipity sometimes, right?
Sean Riley: Yeah.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
Cool.
And tell us a little bit about Veson.
Sean Riley: So Veson is a, I think, with a little bias, but
a super interesting business.
We are a software and data business that focuses exclusively
on, the maritime space.
So the roots of the business are in, an enterprise software.
that kind of runs the business of bulk marine freight.
So buyers and sellers, managing their business on a day to day operations from
a chartering perspective, a operation, vessel operations and then financials
and all the different, machinations that go into managing that business.
Along the way, we have partnered with, all sorts of natural
resource businesses, from mining businesses to, chemicals businesses.
and then over the last few years, we've recognized that it's not just
software that our clients want.
It's data at the point of decision, right?
It's data in the evaluation of decisions.
And so we've acquired, four businesses that focus around.
The data of shipping and each one of them has a unique, proprietary
set of data that they have.
And so we're now in the process of combining all those data sets, but then
folding that into the software platform.
So we can deliver that to them as they make their decisions.
VictoriaM: Very cool.
Very cool.
And I think, we're certainly, living in the time of data and not just
data, but getting information and intelligence out of data.
So it sounds like you guys are in the right place with that.
Yeah,
time will tell.
Sean Riley: time will tell.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
the maritime industry is, probably better than many others, is facing a number
of disruptions and challenges, right?
Geopolitical conflicts, weather related impacts, new regulations.
can you talk just about what you guys are seeing?
Sean Riley: Yeah, so we, and you'll have to pardon, the pun here a little
bit, but what we say is there's waves of compounding complexity hitting shipping.
and I feel like I've been saying that for a number of years or
we've been saying that and a lot of people have been saying it.
But I also feel like now it sounds like now really is
waves of compounded complexity.
And that's, all of those create risks, right?
There's environmental risks.
There's business risks.
There's geopolitical risks.
Those environmental challenges, right?
Weather related things.
All of those are risks to the business and their risks.
If you're on the ship owner charter side to your, business and profitability.
If you're on the chemical, manufacturer, chemical producer side, their
risks to your supply chain, right?
Risks to your factory or, plant viability or, plant operations, right?
And all of those things, I like to say we're not in the business of
eliminating risks for our clients that, I mentioned this to you, in the sort
of pre conversation, that's where the money is, is, but it's around managing
that risk, understanding that risk and eliminating the surprise risk.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
I could see that.
And I think the Risk management is critical and I've even talked about
recently, I think, I'm calling the 2020s the decade of supply chain because
supply chain was really boring up until.
The last several years, maybe not to people that are deep practitioners
in it, but really it's, there's this whole benefit of creating
steady state supply chains.
And, there's just so much flux going on that there is nothing steady state.
And as you call it waves of compounding risk and compounding change.
And, it's a wild
Sean Riley: I think a lot, of people saw supply chain as procurement
only.
So like the purchase of.
X.
and, as you said, right to those who are in it and live it is way more than that.
But I think you're right in that in the last, whether it's a, a ship sideways
in the Suez Canal or, all the, container ships lined up off the port of Long
Beach, waiting and waiting to come in.
Those are now all of a sudden people are seeing those, as like
business critical issues, right?
we can't run our business if we can't get if we can't keep our
supply chain going and that, and you add in some of the stuff.
and where it gets really interesting.
I think is, you have a lot of like traceability concepts going
on in the supply chain as well.
And, that's finding its way back to the raw material sector.
itself or the chemical sector itself.
And that concept of visibility and data and supply chain management and
active supply chain management is.
Is a really cool place to live.
VictoriaM: And is that something that your business, your systems can help with?
Is that traceability?
Is that kind of an element of what you guys do?
Sean Riley: Yeah.
There's a few ways to address that, right?
There's a data component, in terms of the sort of purchase of data, right?
And then there's the software piece of it, which is, if you're
a chemical manufacturer, right?
You understand where all your feed stocks are coming from.
You know exactly who shipped those right?
What ships they came in on where they came, what part of the world they
came out of, all that sort of stuff.
You can absolutely trace that all the way back to, in some cases, the ground.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
Makes sense.
Great.
So, let's, maybe talk about trends and what are the big trends that
chemical shippers are facing today?
Sean Riley: So I think there's a few, right.
There's, the, risk trends right around those environmental risks
around geopolitical risks around volatility risks, supply chain risks.
And then there's like the business opportunities trends.
And so I think a lot of people talk about the risk piece of it and managing that,
VictoriaM: Yeah.
Great.
Sean Riley: we're now starting to hear more conversations around, the
opportunity and thinking of, the concepts of like collaboration and
partnership with your suppliers or your vendors or your maritime partners.
supply chain providers rather than,
like we're counterparties against each other.
We need to work together to make sure that our businesses run right.
There's positive benefits for both of us if we work and we collaborate together.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
I think that's right.
And I think that's part of this whole shift in supply chain moving
from a bit of a utility function to something that's more value creative.
Sean Riley: Yeah, it's like a well run supply chain is a
strategic asset to a business.
Poorly run supply chain, poorly run logistics function, for us, poorly
run maritime logistics function.
Function is a real, it's a massive cost center, right?
And it's a massive risk to the business, both P and L wise, but
also like business continuity was.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
Makes sense.
And we've certainly seen that recently in, particular, just that whole aspect of risk
and business continuity and cost, man.
I think that is the number one thing that people I talk to talk about is just
the increased cost that's taken that we've seen over the past several years.
And then also the fluctuating, right?
So we thought there was going to be some resonance and some steady
state and leveling out and that doesn't hold true for very long.
Yeah.
Sean Riley: the volatility piece is something that's really, and in
maritime, there's always been, freight rate movements, fairly significantly.
typically, historically some of that stuff was always, it
was tied to supply and demand.
and companies were okay managing their way through supply and demand
price movements, Cause you understand that they all, these are all right.
Chemical, most chemical manufacturers are pretty decent size businesses, They have
thoughts on macroeconomic, trends and how that's going to impact their business.
things that they couldn't manage, Or that were harder to manage
were things that were injecting volatility that they couldn't.
Forecast or control or understand right?
Everybody can understand interest rates and, a rate drop or rate increase
and how that impacts their business.
But like sideways ship in the Suez Canal.
I what?
VictoriaM: Yeah.
that was not on my bingo card.
Sean Riley: it was not on my bingo card.
Exactly right.
A missile off of Yemen.
It was not in my,
and those are just increasing.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
Sean Riley: There's more and more of them.
And unfortunately, you don't see a path where they slow down.
VictoriaM: no, not in the near term.
That's for sure.
So a lot is working with Veson's platforms, help chemical shippers.
Is it helping to manage risks?
Is it doing something else?
Why do you, why do they work with you?
Yeah.
Sean Riley: so yes.
so they were, they work with us for a variety of reasons.
One is, the risk management and the active risk management.
The second is, one of the things we found in chemical shippers is that across their
businesses prior to working with Veson or prior to having a sort of standardized
system, not everyone in the business was singing from the same song sheet.
And so when you have disparate data right there and you know you think a ship's
going to arrive it on Monday and I think the ship's going to arrive on Friday
and it actually arrives on Wednesday.
creates a lot of challenges in the planning and logistics of your business.
And then the other one that I think we see is, to the point of collaboration
between the counterparties right between the chemical shippers
and the shipping companies.
That transparency of communication so that everyone is understanding, talking
the same language, understanding.
What the risks are, different coffee, like to merge risks or claims type risks.
Making sure that we're negotiating from a common visibility into the events at hand.
Those kinds of activities are, really critical to, both your profitability,
but also your sort of ongoing operations.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
and are you guys providing services like a freight forward would or a, gosh,
there's a number of, so many 3PL agencies
that are providing some of the matchmaking.
Are you guys doing matchmaking and paperwork and stuff or are you
Sean Riley: No, so we don't, we're the systems and infrastructure, right?
we like to talk about, our vision for Veson, is to be the platform
that propels maritime commerce.
Bulk shipping, which is where we spend most of our time.
The facilitation of transactions is really done primarily through a broker
led engagement, and, Veson doesn't get it, but we get involved in the
evaluation of deals, meaning our software helps our clients evaluate deals.
It helps us understand scheduling, right?
It helps us understand, drivers of price, right?
Or drivers of cost.
But in terms of matching a buyer with a seller, that happens not, through us.
VictoriaM: let's talk maybe a little bit, we touched on this earlier,
sustainability and regulatory shifts.
That seems to be really critical at the moment in maritime, and
with the shipping companies, right?
Everything from new fuels to new regulations, particularly in Europe,
what are you guys seeing here?
And what are your customers responses?
Yeah.
Sean Riley: so it's one of the, if not the largest, it's one of the largest, both
trends and challenges in the industry.
And one of the big challenges in shipping is it's such a global enterprise that you
have lots of, ships are calling ports in Asia and leaving ports in Asia and calling
ports in Europe and then leaving ports in Europe and calling ports in Latin America.
And moving their way around the world and all of them have different regulatory
profiles, and that's just an array of complexity that is so, hard to manage,
Europe seems to be taking the lead on, a lot of that part of that is, they tend
to be a little more forward looking.
Around some of the environmental stuff.
Part of it is also they're very central in terms of, global trade, right?
And then what in terms of what are we seeing?
we see everything from very active management of these new rules and
regulations and planning for it all the way to, people who are
just like putting their head in the sand and hoping it goes away.
The trend is more towards the, active management of it.
And we have, we have a number of tools within our software platform and within
the data, to understand the impact of different types of fuels that you'd be
consuming on a voyage or the impact of calling, the cost of calling on different,
European ports or, things like,
C.
I.
I data, which is carbon intensity index around, how essentially
how polluting is a vessel, right?
what's the quality of a vessel efficiency quality of a vessel?
Our clients are using the software and data.
We have to make all of those assessments both at a, individual voyage level,
and then all the way up, you can you start everything at the voyage level,
and then you can roll your way up to, on the, carrier side of the shipping
company side to the fleet level, or, on the producers, the chemical producer
side, all the way up to your, scheduling and deliveries and things like that,
and understanding, the impact of all that on your inventory and your costs
VictoriaM: Yeah.
are you able to discern from the data, obviously you guys are,
there's a lot of data that filters through you and I know there's an
abundance of firewalls and all that.
So understanding, data security, I'm certain is a critical
thing to you and your company.
Are you able to discern any specific patterns?
Are you seeing that, shippers are making more carbon conscious choices?
Is there enough data to demonstrate that?
Sean Riley: Yes and no.
I would say, we haven't dove fully into the data to say, how does it
compare today versus what it was.
But we absolutely see our clients making carbon related decisions.
100 100%.
Now, it doesn't mean every.
It doesn't mean every decision, is made with the, with the
lowest carbon consumption.
our clients typically are thinking about it at the portfolio level.
So they can, a voyage, can consume or produce less carbon.
On one voyage and, that may allow them to make a different decision later
on so that on average there, within the range of what they, want to be.
But if you look, compare that to five years ago, or longer, right?
It's like night and day,
VictoriaM: yeah.
it's just
Sean Riley: And they're
VictoriaM: and it's everybody is right.
People are talking about it today in ways that we weren't five years ago
or 10
Sean Riley: it.
Yeah.
No, you couldn't.
and I think that's where, for me, that's where it all starts, right?
Is you have to start talking about it first, right?
And then you have to figure out, every business , has a set of operating
principles and risk profiles that they're willing to accept for their
business, and then they have laws and regulations that they have to layer
in to try to manage through that.
Our job is not to set the risk profile, of the business, it's to help enable
their competitive advantage, whatever they decide that would be, and through that,
we have to deliver a product that captures new regulations right on a regular basis.
So we're constantly updating to make sure we have the latest in, or fuel,
you or built into the platform, as well as, providing new data.
Into it so that they can optimize around that, risk profile or P
and L profile or whatever their competitive advantage, they say is,
VictoriaM: Oh, cool.
So, one of the things we talk about a lot on the chemical show is,
the customer experience, right?
And, ultimately at the end of the day, that can be a key
differentiator for companies.
So when you think about your customers and how you serve them, why they do business
with you, what's unique or critical about Besson's customer experience?
Sean Riley: so I would say a couple of things.
first, I think one of the things that's unique is a lot
of people talk about customers.
That's what talks about clients.
And it's a super small differentiator, right?
Or super small nuance in the word.
But there's an implication of partnership that I think comes with the word
client or an implication of a level of service and commitment to them.
that doesn't, versus the customer tends to be a bit more transactional in nature.
1st and foremost, it's that, we view our clients as clients, and as partners
and, we advise them, but they advise us.
So it's very much a two way street, almost every product we've ever built.
Has been in deep collaboration with our partners, right?
As we add in enhancements to the product to handle new regulations,
we go to our clients and we say, Hey, How are you handling this regulation?
What's the timing, by which you need to have this in play?
Because oftentimes a regulation goes in, January 1st, but clients
are making decisions, right?
January 21st, 2025, some, changes are coming.
They're making decisions, in July for 2025.
These are not, instantaneous things.
So we need to have that stuff.
built in so that I would say is the first piece of it.
I think the second piece is, we've been focused on maritime for
20 years, and that's all we do.
And so we have a level of expertise.
Within our team, we have a, an amazing global services team, that
has a level of expertise in this world, not just shipping.
But chemical shipping.
And those are different.
And, a lot of people from outside of the shipping world talk about, they
talk about shipping as one monolithic entity, Or, industry and we know,
And maybe they get to a container is different than a bulk carrier, but,
we know that a chemical partial tanker behaves and operates very, differently.
Then a VLCC, which is carrying crude oil, right?
And, it's not to say we're the only ones that do that, but we understand the
level of depth and the specificity of, how our clients work and the nuance of
chemicals that's different than bulk.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
And I think that's a great point.
I think it's so critical.
I think you, people take it for granted, to your point from the outside.
And if you're not embedded within an industry, you assume, maritime
shipping is maritime shipping, right?
what's the, but it's what's inside of it
matters.
Sean Riley: it's different
VictoriaM: Different treatments, different decisions, processes, different,
regulatory frameworks, et cetera.
Sean Riley: shipping ethylene is different than shipping Nike.
Like it just, it is.
And, I think a lot of people coming from the outside don't
necessarily appreciate that,
maybe right at a high level,
VictoriaM: you got into the industry?
Sean Riley: not to the level I do now, I think I understood at a high
level, liquids are different than bulk, than dry bulk kind of thing.
But, and I, Understood a little bit.
I had done some work with some chemicals companies before.
So I understood that the same stuff that makes, Barbies makes
plastic explosives, right?
and so there's a 9 11 change the chemical shipping.
if you go way back, right?
9, 11 change the chemical shipping world massively.
So I would say I understood it.
At some level, but probably not, as appreciative of the nuances.
Maybe I am today and I would say, we have people with
investment who understand a way,
VictoriaM: Absolutely.
Sean Riley: a level way more than even than I do,
VictoriaM: Absolutely.
Yeah.
there's the leadership and then there's the practitioner.
The practitioners are always going to be, SME subject matter experts.
They're, they really know it in and out, in ways that
others can't fully appreciate.
Sean Riley: no, I'm consistently reality checks by our team with ideas.
I haven't yeah, it's not going to work, and they're like this,
and okay, it's a good idea.
VictoriaM: it's nice.
I'm testing you guys.
I'm
Sean Riley: Yeah, not all my, I would say not all my ideas are good ideas.
They're just ideas.
VictoriaM: to talking about leadership, and your career experience.
what advice do you have?
Because I think one of the, what advice do you have to people?
individuals that want to achieve success in the industry, such as you
have, what's the difference maker.
Sean Riley: So I don't know that there's like one.
don't know.
There's one thing that you can say.
I think everyone every path is, unique.
I think things that I would say about myself is, find things you
like doing and do more of them, find ways to do a little bit more right?
So when I was a strategy consultant, we always, you would set out
the client would come to you and say, here's a set of questions
that we would like you to answer.
VictoriaM: Right.
Sean Riley: And one of the partners that I used to work for a lot was
like, Hey, one of the things that we always want to do is answer one, one
or two more questions than they asked.
And we'll uncover what those questions are throughout the
course of this project and study or whatever, but we've got 12 questions.
We want to answer 14.
And what that's going to do is they realize, hey, we're going
beyond just what they asked.
We're doing more.
and I think for, people are starting their career or up and coming in their
career, like doing just a little bit more.
And that's not like a little bit more than the bare minimum.
usually you're asked, you're not asked to do the bare minimum, you're usually
asked to do, something substantial, but do it, do a little bit more.
and then just, I would say I'm a generally reasonably curious person.
I like learning about new things.
And so that serves you well, but also, I have, enough self confidence that I'm
probably not afraid to, fail at things.
So I've, screwed more things up than, I've screwed more
things up than I've done well.
And here I am, but, being not afraid and finding people who will tolerate that.
Because I think one of the,
mentors who will push you to screw things up and then we'll back you
up is a really important, really important piece of, developing yourself.
VictoriaM: Absolutely.
And that's something you earn in some ways because you've
gone beyond, you've answered
the 14 questions instead of 12.
you're not afraid to take those risks and
recover.
Sean Riley: yeah.
And if they're, if they're a good leader, If, they understand that
okay, you meant well, you were trying to do the right thing.
You were trying to, you were trying to move forward.
That helps.
And, you do learn stuff.
I think everybody wants to work also for the best boss ever.
But I also like I learned, some of the best things I learned were from people.
I never want to work for again because I was like, oh, don't want to do that.
if I ever find myself doing that, I better stop.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
I think it's great.
and I think, Yeah, we've all had great bosses and crappy bosses.
And, one of my best bosses that I've learned the most from was
the guy I was most afraid to go work for because he had a bad rep.
He had a bit of a reputation.
I was like, no, you can handle him.
and I understood, what it took to be successful.
And man, I grew so much from him.
It was awesome.
got to take those chances.
Sean Riley: I also think , people are afraid a lot of feedback, right?
And when someone gives you feedback, and I think one of the like big
keys to success is like, whether you agree or not, with feedback,
right?
Feedback is the result of a perception.
And so you have to deal with that.
And so you can choose to be like, you know what?
Victoria is wrong.
She doesn't know what she's talking about.
Or you can say, wait a minute, like Victoria thought this, and she may be
wrong, but could someone else think that, and how do I, and how do I adapt to that?
I believe like being able to take feedback and find the one that's Thing
that you can do a little bit better and yourself is like a really key.
It's a skill.
Some people maybe do it naturally, but it is definitely an acquired skill,
particularly when you don't always agree with the feedback you're going to be
VictoriaM: Yeah, but I like, I agree with that, but I'd like your approach
that it, it is a perception and you have to be aware that if one person has that
perception, somebody else may as well.
and so just
Sean Riley: So we,
VictoriaM: with it.
Sean Riley: within our business, I talk to our team a lot about,
and it relates to this, right?
Client comes back to you and, or a team member does something and it's the concept
of not my fault, but my problem, right?
And it's like you, it may not be your fault, but It's our job
and our, it's our problem, but we got to deal with it, right?
Your teammate may not be very good at their job.
It's not your fault, but we've got to deal with it.
Client may have outrageous expectations.
It's not your fault.
We still have, you can't just roll over and say, that's outrageous.
You're like, Oh, that's,
VictoriaM: Yeah.
it is outrageous.
And, then what, what are you
Sean Riley: And then what?
It may be.
But we got to, we've got to move forward and deal with that.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
I like that.
And I think that's great.
I think it applies to business life, leadership.
Your customers and clients.
Yeah, that's great.
So what's next for Veson Nautical?
What do you guys, what should we be looking for you over the rest
of the year and into next year?
Sean Riley: We have some really cool stuff coming.
so we have some really cool products coming around, combining
where, what I think are two big trends in the industry, right?
In which, and I think they're trends across, they're horizontally,
within shipping, right?
They're horizontally applicable.
the first is data and the use of data, and maybe three things, the use of,
data, the use of data, some artificial intelligence and collaboration.
and you knew you couldn't get through a, a podcast with a software
company or data company and not talk about artificial intelligence.
But,
VictoriaM: real.
Sean Riley: some, we've got some really cool stuff coming around that
kind of brings those things together.
We have some really cool stuff coming around.
We believe that the industry very much wants, to connect, and wants to
share data, and share information.
to share information.
Not all data, right?
Not commercially sensitive data, not, strategic data, but there's
a whole bunch of just, efficiencies that can be gained in the industry
by us, as I referenced earlier, like singing from the same song sheet, and
almost to a client, we hear that from.
And so we've got some really cool stuff coming, in those areas, some
between now and the end of the year, some, a couple of things in the early.
Early 2025, but I'm
super excited.
and John Veson and I talk about this.
Like we're, we have such cool stuff coming that we're really excited about where the
product direction of Veson is right now.
VictoriaM: that's really cool.
I love it.
and I think this piece around, if you hit it data AI and connection or
collaboration is critical right now, it's definitely where the industry is
headed, whether they recognize it or not.
But it's this whole aspect that I think we've, we have to move past, being an
island and being siloed across each other.
Still having, as you say, confidentiality, et cetera, but we don't have
to keep reinventing the wheel.
We can learn with each other to solve today's problems and tomorrow's
problems and build that better future.
Sean Riley: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It's coming.
Collaboration is coming.
how you do it and what you share and all that sort of stuff is TBD, but.
And most people want it, the problem is I think a lot of people just, when soon
as they hear it, they default to the like, are you sharing, publishing prices?
No, you're not like, you're not sharing the most sensitive.
Are you sharing our strategy?
no, you wouldn't share your strategy.
of course not.
But like, when's the ship arriving?
That's like pretty good information to,
VictoriaM: Yeah, absolutely.
Sean Riley: that's pretty good.
VictoriaM: to
Sean Riley: could, we want to know, right?
That's a great piece of, great piece of information to share.
VictoriaM: I think, as we talked earlier in our conversation, some of
the challenges and the trends that we're facing around environmental
sustainability, geopolitics, the, volatility that's going on, people
also want to understand, okay, so how are you approaching this?
Because we all need solutions.
And those better solutions may come from having more open conversations
by sharing appropriate amounts of data, and collaborating to get there.
And frankly, that's where the best ideas come from is they don't come
from a single mind or a single company.
They come from that shared vision and collaboration.
Sean Riley: that's this idea.
We talk about, so the roots of this and right are in the owner and charter side.
So it's only in the last, 7 or 8 years that we, maybe a little longer,
but, really started pushing into working with the, chemical producers.
And through that segment of the market, right?
We started to understand the concept of working like.
Our clients, right?
And eventually our clients became our clients, but it's that concept
of, a shared client base, right?
a shared platform and collaboration that, we see as a lot of the future
of what Veson is, but, bigger than, it's a lot bigger than,
VictoriaM: I think that's right.
Yeah.
Sean Riley: Veson
VictoriaM: that's what a successful companies.
In every industry recognize is that if I stop at my direct customer,
I don't understand my business.
I have to go to my customer's customer and my customer's customer
to actually understand the value chain that impact the opportunity.
Sean Riley: But it's a really cool time to be in, shipping and chemical shipping.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
Awesome.
I love it.
thank you.
Thanks, Sean.
I really appreciate you joining me today on the chemical show.
Sean Riley: Thanks for having me.
I, it's a lot of fun.
I like talking about vessels.
and I like talking about our industry.
VictoriaM: I love it too.
I like talking about the industry.
I love talking about and learning about new companies and it's great
to share it with other people in the industry who are also interested,
so appreciate it.
Sean Riley: Thank you.
VictoriaM: All right.
And thanks everyone for joining us today.
Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will
talk with you again soon.