WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.740 --> 00:00:04.540 A key component of the modern world economy, the chemical 00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:07.990 industry delivers products and innovations to enhance everyday life. 00:00:08.605 --> 00:00:12.594 It is also an industry in transformation where chemical executives and 00:00:12.594 --> 00:00:16.215 workers are delivering growth and industry changing advancements while 00:00:16.215 --> 00:00:19.974 responding to pressures from investors, regulators, and public opinion. 00:00:20.515 --> 00:00:23.445 Discover how leading companies are approaching these challenges 00:00:23.455 --> 00:00:25.064 here on the chemical show. 00:00:25.524 --> 00:00:28.875 Join Victoria Meyer, president of Progressio Global and 00:00:28.885 --> 00:00:30.305 host of the chemical show. 00:00:30.575 --> 00:00:34.775 As she speaks with executives across the industry and learns how they are leading 00:00:34.775 --> 00:00:40.374 their companies to grow, transform, and push industry boundaries on all frontiers. 00:00:40.695 --> 00:00:42.944 Here's your host, Victoria Meyer. 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:47.310 VictoriaM: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer. 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:51.160 Welcome back to the Chemical Show, where Chemicals Means Business. 00:00:51.620 --> 00:00:55.720 Today, I am speaking with Sean Riley, who is the President and COO 00:00:55.720 --> 00:01:00.909 of Veson Nautical, where he leads sales and marketing, professional 00:01:00.909 --> 00:01:04.560 services, and all the things that you would assume go into operations. 00:01:05.060 --> 00:01:08.890 Sean's going to talk a little bit about Veson, and we are also going to discuss 00:01:09.380 --> 00:01:10.979 how to gain a decision advantage. 00:01:11.130 --> 00:01:15.800 In this increasingly complex world of maritime and Marine shipping. 00:01:15.820 --> 00:01:18.090 So we've got a lot of things to cover today. 00:01:18.320 --> 00:01:19.929 Sean, welcome to the chemical show. 00:01:20.610 --> 00:01:21.340 Sean Riley: Thanks for having me. 00:01:21.470 --> 00:01:22.090 Excited to be here. 00:01:22.630 --> 00:01:23.620 VictoriaM: Excited to have you here. 00:01:23.740 --> 00:01:25.610 So let's just start with you. 00:01:25.619 --> 00:01:30.289 What's your origin story and how did you get into this world of maritime? 00:01:31.649 --> 00:01:32.479 Sean Riley: So my origin. 00:01:32.529 --> 00:01:36.470 I fell into maritime, but I'm Boston based. 00:01:36.470 --> 00:01:38.409 I'm, Boston born and raised. 00:01:38.420 --> 00:01:44.550 So I'm local as local comes, And I started my career working, on, 00:01:44.600 --> 00:01:45.840 the strategy consulting side. 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:49.159 So working with both private equity businesses, private equity companies 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:54.009 on due diligence, as well as, operating businesses on big strategic 00:01:54.009 --> 00:01:58.070 initiatives, and then joined a supply chain software business. 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:00.640 There was software and data to the power and oil and gas. 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:01.650 industry. 00:02:02.170 --> 00:02:07.720 And I spent a number of years there and along the way I came across this company, 00:02:07.720 --> 00:02:09.850 Veson, that was looking for someone. 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:13.970 And it turned out the founder, went to business school here in 00:02:13.970 --> 00:02:15.540 Boston that my sister went to. 00:02:15.540 --> 00:02:16.640 And I said, do you know him? 00:02:16.640 --> 00:02:20.110 She said, I turns out I sat next to him for six months, in class. 00:02:20.110 --> 00:02:25.000 And so he made the intro and, next thing, John Veson and I had been working 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:26.920 together for, 12 and a half years. 00:02:27.475 --> 00:02:28.235 VictoriaM: That's very cool. 00:02:28.805 --> 00:02:29.115 yeah. 00:02:29.125 --> 00:02:30.615 Serendipity sometimes, right? 00:02:30.740 --> 00:02:31.090 Sean Riley: Yeah. 00:02:31.125 --> 00:02:31.435 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:02:31.665 --> 00:02:31.925 Cool. 00:02:32.225 --> 00:02:34.045 And tell us a little bit about Veson. 00:02:35.255 --> 00:02:38.880 Sean Riley: So Veson is a, I think, with a little bias, but 00:02:38.880 --> 00:02:40.400 a super interesting business. 00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:44.700 We are a software and data business that focuses exclusively 00:02:44.730 --> 00:02:46.900 on, the maritime space. 00:02:47.200 --> 00:02:51.060 So the roots of the business are in, an enterprise software. 00:02:52.735 --> 00:02:56.575 that kind of runs the business of bulk marine freight. 00:02:56.575 --> 00:03:00.925 So buyers and sellers, managing their business on a day to day operations from 00:03:00.925 --> 00:03:05.775 a chartering perspective, a operation, vessel operations and then financials 00:03:05.875 --> 00:03:09.245 and all the different, machinations that go into managing that business. 00:03:09.720 --> 00:03:14.000 Along the way, we have partnered with, all sorts of natural 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:18.470 resource businesses, from mining businesses to, chemicals businesses. 00:03:19.450 --> 00:03:23.510 and then over the last few years, we've recognized that it's not just 00:03:23.510 --> 00:03:25.150 software that our clients want. 00:03:25.510 --> 00:03:27.990 It's data at the point of decision, right? 00:03:27.990 --> 00:03:30.400 It's data in the evaluation of decisions. 00:03:30.690 --> 00:03:34.950 And so we've acquired, four businesses that focus around. 00:03:35.425 --> 00:03:39.685 The data of shipping and each one of them has a unique, proprietary 00:03:39.695 --> 00:03:40.905 set of data that they have. 00:03:41.245 --> 00:03:45.415 And so we're now in the process of combining all those data sets, but then 00:03:45.415 --> 00:03:47.775 folding that into the software platform. 00:03:47.775 --> 00:03:50.395 So we can deliver that to them as they make their decisions. 00:03:51.815 --> 00:03:52.325 VictoriaM: Very cool. 00:03:52.785 --> 00:03:53.215 Very cool. 00:03:53.215 --> 00:03:57.455 And I think, we're certainly, living in the time of data and not just 00:03:57.455 --> 00:04:00.945 data, but getting information and intelligence out of data. 00:04:00.945 --> 00:04:03.425 So it sounds like you guys are in the right place with that. 00:04:03.425 --> 00:04:07.054 Yeah, 00:04:07.634 --> 00:04:08.544 time will tell. 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:09.430 Sean Riley: time will tell. 00:04:09.685 --> 00:04:10.015 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:04:10.875 --> 00:04:16.595 the maritime industry is, probably better than many others, is facing a number 00:04:16.615 --> 00:04:18.475 of disruptions and challenges, right? 00:04:18.505 --> 00:04:23.014 Geopolitical conflicts, weather related impacts, new regulations. 00:04:23.405 --> 00:04:25.525 can you talk just about what you guys are seeing? 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.859 Sean Riley: Yeah, so we, and you'll have to pardon, the pun here a little 00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:34.960 bit, but what we say is there's waves of compounding complexity hitting shipping. 00:04:36.159 --> 00:04:39.489 and I feel like I've been saying that for a number of years or 00:04:39.490 --> 00:04:41.549 we've been saying that and a lot of people have been saying it. 00:04:41.870 --> 00:04:45.480 But I also feel like now it sounds like now really is 00:04:45.570 --> 00:04:47.160 waves of compounded complexity. 00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:51.610 And that's, all of those create risks, right? 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:53.520 There's environmental risks. 00:04:53.550 --> 00:04:55.370 There's business risks. 00:04:55.370 --> 00:04:57.179 There's geopolitical risks. 00:04:57.545 --> 00:04:59.315 Those environmental challenges, right? 00:04:59.345 --> 00:05:00.395 Weather related things. 00:05:00.405 --> 00:05:04.494 All of those are risks to the business and their risks. 00:05:04.505 --> 00:05:09.445 If you're on the ship owner charter side to your, business and profitability. 00:05:09.495 --> 00:05:13.115 If you're on the chemical, manufacturer, chemical producer side, their 00:05:13.115 --> 00:05:15.205 risks to your supply chain, right? 00:05:15.275 --> 00:05:19.455 Risks to your factory or, plant viability or, plant operations, right? 00:05:19.455 --> 00:05:22.275 And all of those things, I like to say we're not in the business of 00:05:22.275 --> 00:05:27.715 eliminating risks for our clients that, I mentioned this to you, in the sort 00:05:27.715 --> 00:05:31.445 of pre conversation, that's where the money is, is, but it's around managing 00:05:31.445 --> 00:05:35.475 that risk, understanding that risk and eliminating the surprise risk. 00:05:35.555 --> 00:05:36.055 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:05:37.505 --> 00:05:38.145 I could see that. 00:05:38.155 --> 00:05:42.150 And I think the Risk management is critical and I've even talked about 00:05:42.380 --> 00:05:47.710 recently, I think, I'm calling the 2020s the decade of supply chain because 00:05:47.710 --> 00:05:51.040 supply chain was really boring up until. 00:05:51.470 --> 00:05:55.320 The last several years, maybe not to people that are deep practitioners 00:05:55.320 --> 00:05:59.070 in it, but really it's, there's this whole benefit of creating 00:05:59.070 --> 00:06:00.640 steady state supply chains. 00:06:00.670 --> 00:06:04.640 And, there's just so much flux going on that there is nothing steady state. 00:06:04.640 --> 00:06:09.340 And as you call it waves of compounding risk and compounding change. 00:06:09.350 --> 00:06:11.290 And, it's a wild 00:06:11.340 --> 00:06:14.520 Sean Riley: I think a lot, of people saw supply chain as procurement 00:06:16.230 --> 00:06:16.620 only. 00:06:16.630 --> 00:06:18.080 So like the purchase of. 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:19.140 X. 00:06:20.730 --> 00:06:25.830 and, as you said, right to those who are in it and live it is way more than that. 00:06:25.960 --> 00:06:29.760 But I think you're right in that in the last, whether it's a, a ship sideways 00:06:29.760 --> 00:06:34.650 in the Suez Canal or, all the, container ships lined up off the port of Long 00:06:34.650 --> 00:06:38.080 Beach, waiting and waiting to come in. 00:06:38.350 --> 00:06:41.200 Those are now all of a sudden people are seeing those, as like 00:06:42.940 --> 00:06:44.180 business critical issues, right? 00:06:45.050 --> 00:06:47.610 we can't run our business if we can't get if we can't keep our 00:06:47.610 --> 00:06:51.180 supply chain going and that, and you add in some of the stuff. 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:54.100 and where it gets really interesting. 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:58.790 I think is, you have a lot of like traceability concepts going 00:06:58.790 --> 00:07:00.390 on in the supply chain as well. 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.240 And, that's finding its way back to the raw material sector. 00:07:04.960 --> 00:07:07.070 itself or the chemical sector itself. 00:07:07.070 --> 00:07:12.380 And that concept of visibility and data and supply chain management and 00:07:12.390 --> 00:07:14.324 active supply chain management is. 00:07:14.745 --> 00:07:16.265 Is a really cool place to live. 00:07:16.850 --> 00:07:20.020 VictoriaM: And is that something that your business, your systems can help with? 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:21.380 Is that traceability? 00:07:21.390 --> 00:07:24.070 Is that kind of an element of what you guys do? 00:07:24.625 --> 00:07:24.915 Sean Riley: Yeah. 00:07:24.915 --> 00:07:27.465 There's a few ways to address that, right? 00:07:27.465 --> 00:07:32.295 There's a data component, in terms of the sort of purchase of data, right? 00:07:32.335 --> 00:07:35.665 And then there's the software piece of it, which is, if you're 00:07:35.705 --> 00:07:37.615 a chemical manufacturer, right? 00:07:37.615 --> 00:07:40.355 You understand where all your feed stocks are coming from. 00:07:40.615 --> 00:07:43.085 You know exactly who shipped those right? 00:07:43.085 --> 00:07:46.515 What ships they came in on where they came, what part of the world they 00:07:46.515 --> 00:07:48.985 came out of, all that sort of stuff. 00:07:49.015 --> 00:07:54.735 You can absolutely trace that all the way back to, in some cases, the ground. 00:07:55.905 --> 00:07:56.155 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:07:56.335 --> 00:07:56.915 Makes sense. 00:07:56.965 --> 00:07:57.235 Great. 00:07:57.975 --> 00:08:01.525 So, let's, maybe talk about trends and what are the big trends that 00:08:01.585 --> 00:08:03.155 chemical shippers are facing today? 00:08:04.550 --> 00:08:06.840 Sean Riley: So I think there's a few, right. 00:08:06.850 --> 00:08:11.370 There's, the, risk trends right around those environmental risks 00:08:11.420 --> 00:08:17.080 around geopolitical risks around volatility risks, supply chain risks. 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:21.410 And then there's like the business opportunities trends. 00:08:21.610 --> 00:08:26.255 And so I think a lot of people talk about the risk piece of it and managing that, 00:08:26.385 --> 00:08:26.432 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:08:26.432 --> 00:08:26.480 Great. 00:08:27.315 --> 00:08:30.615 Sean Riley: we're now starting to hear more conversations around, the 00:08:30.615 --> 00:08:35.445 opportunity and thinking of, the concepts of like collaboration and 00:08:35.445 --> 00:08:38.525 partnership with your suppliers or your vendors or your maritime partners. 00:08:39.105 --> 00:08:41.185 supply chain providers rather than, 00:08:43.405 --> 00:08:46.295 like we're counterparties against each other. 00:08:46.295 --> 00:08:51.365 We need to work together to make sure that our businesses run right. 00:08:51.365 --> 00:08:55.615 There's positive benefits for both of us if we work and we collaborate together. 00:08:57.080 --> 00:08:57.410 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:08:57.520 --> 00:08:58.250 I think that's right. 00:08:58.250 --> 00:09:02.260 And I think that's part of this whole shift in supply chain moving 00:09:02.260 --> 00:09:07.990 from a bit of a utility function to something that's more value creative. 00:09:08.645 --> 00:09:10.565 Sean Riley: Yeah, it's like a well run supply chain is a 00:09:10.565 --> 00:09:12.535 strategic asset to a business. 00:09:13.025 --> 00:09:17.675 Poorly run supply chain, poorly run logistics function, for us, poorly 00:09:17.675 --> 00:09:18.530 run maritime logistics function. 00:09:19.800 --> 00:09:25.560 Function is a real, it's a massive cost center, right? 00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:29.390 And it's a massive risk to the business, both P and L wise, but 00:09:29.390 --> 00:09:31.380 also like business continuity was. 00:09:31.520 --> 00:09:31.770 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:09:32.255 --> 00:09:32.735 Makes sense. 00:09:33.015 --> 00:09:37.245 And we've certainly seen that recently in, particular, just that whole aspect of risk 00:09:37.245 --> 00:09:39.855 and business continuity and cost, man. 00:09:39.865 --> 00:09:44.425 I think that is the number one thing that people I talk to talk about is just 00:09:45.515 --> 00:09:49.615 the increased cost that's taken that we've seen over the past several years. 00:09:49.845 --> 00:09:51.275 And then also the fluctuating, right? 00:09:51.275 --> 00:09:54.745 So we thought there was going to be some resonance and some steady 00:09:54.755 --> 00:09:58.965 state and leveling out and that doesn't hold true for very long. 00:09:58.965 --> 00:09:59.465 Yeah. 00:09:59.465 --> 00:09:59.965 Yeah. 00:10:00.170 --> 00:10:03.280 Sean Riley: the volatility piece is something that's really, and in 00:10:03.280 --> 00:10:07.660 maritime, there's always been, freight rate movements, fairly significantly. 00:10:09.150 --> 00:10:11.400 typically, historically some of that stuff was always, it 00:10:11.400 --> 00:10:12.400 was tied to supply and demand. 00:10:13.635 --> 00:10:16.425 and companies were okay managing their way through supply and demand 00:10:16.575 --> 00:10:20.645 price movements, Cause you understand that they all, these are all right. 00:10:20.675 --> 00:10:25.155 Chemical, most chemical manufacturers are pretty decent size businesses, They have 00:10:25.275 --> 00:10:29.485 thoughts on macroeconomic, trends and how that's going to impact their business. 00:10:29.565 --> 00:10:33.235 things that they couldn't manage, Or that were harder to manage 00:10:33.235 --> 00:10:36.725 were things that were injecting volatility that they couldn't. 00:10:37.875 --> 00:10:39.885 Forecast or control or understand right? 00:10:40.195 --> 00:10:44.045 Everybody can understand interest rates and, a rate drop or rate increase 00:10:44.045 --> 00:10:45.765 and how that impacts their business. 00:10:45.765 --> 00:10:49.115 But like sideways ship in the Suez Canal. 00:10:49.115 --> 00:10:50.335 I what? 00:10:50.875 --> 00:10:51.015 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:10:51.015 --> 00:10:52.925 that was not on my bingo card. 00:10:53.365 --> 00:10:54.485 Sean Riley: it was not on my bingo card. 00:10:54.545 --> 00:10:55.325 Exactly right. 00:10:55.615 --> 00:10:57.115 A missile off of Yemen. 00:10:57.155 --> 00:10:58.235 It was not in my, 00:11:00.355 --> 00:11:01.879 and those are just increasing. 00:11:02.755 --> 00:11:03.345 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:11:03.870 --> 00:11:04.770 Sean Riley: There's more and more of them. 00:11:05.550 --> 00:11:08.920 And unfortunately, you don't see a path where they slow down. 00:11:09.715 --> 00:11:12.845 VictoriaM: no, not in the near term. 00:11:12.945 --> 00:11:13.565 That's for sure. 00:11:14.365 --> 00:11:18.405 So a lot is working with Veson's platforms, help chemical shippers. 00:11:18.405 --> 00:11:19.795 Is it helping to manage risks? 00:11:19.795 --> 00:11:20.995 Is it doing something else? 00:11:21.525 --> 00:11:22.875 Why do you, why do they work with you? 00:11:22.875 --> 00:11:23.660 Yeah. 00:11:25.060 --> 00:11:25.740 Sean Riley: so yes. 00:11:27.150 --> 00:11:29.970 so they were, they work with us for a variety of reasons. 00:11:30.070 --> 00:11:33.730 One is, the risk management and the active risk management. 00:11:34.150 --> 00:11:40.710 The second is, one of the things we found in chemical shippers is that across their 00:11:40.710 --> 00:11:45.570 businesses prior to working with Veson or prior to having a sort of standardized 00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:50.020 system, not everyone in the business was singing from the same song sheet. 00:11:50.650 --> 00:11:55.880 And so when you have disparate data right there and you know you think a ship's 00:11:55.910 --> 00:11:59.790 going to arrive it on Monday and I think the ship's going to arrive on Friday 00:11:59.790 --> 00:12:01.400 and it actually arrives on Wednesday. 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:07.950 creates a lot of challenges in the planning and logistics of your business. 00:12:08.370 --> 00:12:13.340 And then the other one that I think we see is, to the point of collaboration 00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:16.860 between the counterparties right between the chemical shippers 00:12:16.860 --> 00:12:18.240 and the shipping companies. 00:12:18.660 --> 00:12:22.940 That transparency of communication so that everyone is understanding, talking 00:12:22.940 --> 00:12:24.620 the same language, understanding. 00:12:24.940 --> 00:12:30.210 What the risks are, different coffee, like to merge risks or claims type risks. 00:12:30.370 --> 00:12:34.320 Making sure that we're negotiating from a common visibility into the events at hand. 00:12:34.690 --> 00:12:39.010 Those kinds of activities are, really critical to, both your profitability, 00:12:39.010 --> 00:12:40.800 but also your sort of ongoing operations. 00:12:41.555 --> 00:12:41.825 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:12:43.575 --> 00:12:50.685 and are you guys providing services like a freight forward would or a, gosh, 00:12:50.685 --> 00:12:53.625 there's a number of, so many 3PL agencies 00:12:53.625 --> 00:12:56.135 that are providing some of the matchmaking. 00:12:56.325 --> 00:12:58.795 Are you guys doing matchmaking and paperwork and stuff or are you 00:12:59.065 --> 00:13:03.915 Sean Riley: No, so we don't, we're the systems and infrastructure, right? 00:13:04.915 --> 00:13:08.645 we like to talk about, our vision for Veson, is to be the platform 00:13:08.645 --> 00:13:10.155 that propels maritime commerce. 00:13:10.515 --> 00:13:13.405 Bulk shipping, which is where we spend most of our time. 00:13:13.745 --> 00:13:18.565 The facilitation of transactions is really done primarily through a broker 00:13:18.675 --> 00:13:23.125 led engagement, and, Veson doesn't get it, but we get involved in the 00:13:23.125 --> 00:13:27.495 evaluation of deals, meaning our software helps our clients evaluate deals. 00:13:27.495 --> 00:13:29.815 It helps us understand scheduling, right? 00:13:29.825 --> 00:13:33.215 It helps us understand, drivers of price, right? 00:13:33.215 --> 00:13:34.475 Or drivers of cost. 00:13:35.065 --> 00:13:40.985 But in terms of matching a buyer with a seller, that happens not, through us. 00:13:44.145 --> 00:13:46.885 VictoriaM: let's talk maybe a little bit, we touched on this earlier, 00:13:46.905 --> 00:13:49.015 sustainability and regulatory shifts. 00:13:49.515 --> 00:13:55.675 That seems to be really critical at the moment in maritime, and 00:13:55.675 --> 00:13:57.005 with the shipping companies, right? 00:13:57.005 --> 00:14:03.655 Everything from new fuels to new regulations, particularly in Europe, 00:14:04.555 --> 00:14:05.805 what are you guys seeing here? 00:14:06.135 --> 00:14:08.215 And what are your customers responses? 00:14:08.215 --> 00:14:08.555 Yeah. 00:14:08.555 --> 00:14:08.895 Yeah. 00:14:08.895 --> 00:14:09.234 Yeah. 00:14:10.585 --> 00:14:16.195 Sean Riley: so it's one of the, if not the largest, it's one of the largest, both 00:14:16.225 --> 00:14:19.255 trends and challenges in the industry. 00:14:19.395 --> 00:14:25.045 And one of the big challenges in shipping is it's such a global enterprise that you 00:14:25.045 --> 00:14:30.375 have lots of, ships are calling ports in Asia and leaving ports in Asia and calling 00:14:30.375 --> 00:14:34.315 ports in Europe and then leaving ports in Europe and calling ports in Latin America. 00:14:34.315 --> 00:14:37.615 And moving their way around the world and all of them have different regulatory 00:14:37.975 --> 00:14:43.845 profiles, and that's just an array of complexity that is so, hard to manage, 00:14:44.115 --> 00:14:49.825 Europe seems to be taking the lead on, a lot of that part of that is, they tend 00:14:49.825 --> 00:14:50.745 to be a little more forward looking. 00:14:51.335 --> 00:14:53.105 Around some of the environmental stuff. 00:14:53.105 --> 00:14:57.465 Part of it is also they're very central in terms of, global trade, right? 00:14:57.575 --> 00:14:59.535 And then what in terms of what are we seeing? 00:15:00.335 --> 00:15:04.275 we see everything from very active management of these new rules and 00:15:04.275 --> 00:15:08.165 regulations and planning for it all the way to, people who are 00:15:08.165 --> 00:15:11.605 just like putting their head in the sand and hoping it goes away. 00:15:11.995 --> 00:15:15.185 The trend is more towards the, active management of it. 00:15:15.185 --> 00:15:18.725 And we have, we have a number of tools within our software platform and within 00:15:18.725 --> 00:15:22.235 the data, to understand the impact of different types of fuels that you'd be 00:15:22.235 --> 00:15:26.253 consuming on a voyage or the impact of calling, the cost of calling on different, 00:15:27.420 --> 00:15:29.770 European ports or, things like, 00:15:29.830 --> 00:15:30.080 C. 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:30.220 I. 00:15:30.220 --> 00:15:33.950 I data, which is carbon intensity index around, how essentially 00:15:33.950 --> 00:15:35.290 how polluting is a vessel, right? 00:15:36.170 --> 00:15:38.810 what's the quality of a vessel efficiency quality of a vessel? 00:15:38.870 --> 00:15:40.930 Our clients are using the software and data. 00:15:40.930 --> 00:15:46.790 We have to make all of those assessments both at a, individual voyage level, 00:15:47.070 --> 00:15:50.880 and then all the way up, you can you start everything at the voyage level, 00:15:50.880 --> 00:15:56.630 and then you can roll your way up to, on the, carrier side of the shipping 00:15:56.630 --> 00:16:01.060 company side to the fleet level, or, on the producers, the chemical producer 00:16:01.060 --> 00:16:06.010 side, all the way up to your, scheduling and deliveries and things like that, 00:16:06.060 --> 00:16:09.280 and understanding, the impact of all that on your inventory and your costs 00:16:09.725 --> 00:16:10.045 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:16:10.685 --> 00:16:13.855 are you able to discern from the data, obviously you guys are, 00:16:14.785 --> 00:16:17.455 there's a lot of data that filters through you and I know there's an 00:16:17.455 --> 00:16:19.735 abundance of firewalls and all that. 00:16:19.735 --> 00:16:23.575 So understanding, data security, I'm certain is a critical 00:16:23.725 --> 00:16:25.715 thing to you and your company. 00:16:25.975 --> 00:16:28.175 Are you able to discern any specific patterns? 00:16:28.175 --> 00:16:33.585 Are you seeing that, shippers are making more carbon conscious choices? 00:16:33.585 --> 00:16:35.845 Is there enough data to demonstrate that? 00:16:36.920 --> 00:16:37.950 Sean Riley: Yes and no. 00:16:38.520 --> 00:16:43.700 I would say, we haven't dove fully into the data to say, how does it 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:45.900 compare today versus what it was. 00:16:46.400 --> 00:16:53.150 But we absolutely see our clients making carbon related decisions. 00:16:53.260 --> 00:16:55.710 100 100%. 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:57.070 Now, it doesn't mean every. 00:16:57.985 --> 00:17:01.525 It doesn't mean every decision, is made with the, with the 00:17:01.525 --> 00:17:03.445 lowest carbon consumption. 00:17:05.065 --> 00:17:08.675 our clients typically are thinking about it at the portfolio level. 00:17:08.785 --> 00:17:14.730 So they can, a voyage, can consume or produce less carbon. 00:17:15.050 --> 00:17:18.860 On one voyage and, that may allow them to make a different decision later 00:17:18.860 --> 00:17:23.270 on so that on average there, within the range of what they, want to be. 00:17:23.300 --> 00:17:26.740 But if you look, compare that to five years ago, or longer, right? 00:17:26.800 --> 00:17:27.990 It's like night and day, 00:17:28.130 --> 00:17:28.400 VictoriaM: yeah. 00:17:28.860 --> 00:17:29.210 it's just 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:29.480 Sean Riley: And they're 00:17:29.650 --> 00:17:31.760 VictoriaM: and it's everybody is right. 00:17:31.780 --> 00:17:35.300 People are talking about it today in ways that we weren't five years ago 00:17:35.630 --> 00:17:36.150 or 10 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:36.390 Sean Riley: it. 00:17:36.390 --> 00:17:36.680 Yeah. 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:36.970 Yeah. 00:17:36.970 --> 00:17:37.870 No, you couldn't. 00:17:39.070 --> 00:17:42.020 and I think that's where, for me, that's where it all starts, right? 00:17:42.320 --> 00:17:43.960 Is you have to start talking about it first, right? 00:17:44.315 --> 00:17:49.245 And then you have to figure out, every business , has a set of operating 00:17:49.245 --> 00:17:52.605 principles and risk profiles that they're willing to accept for their 00:17:52.605 --> 00:17:56.825 business, and then they have laws and regulations that they have to layer 00:17:56.825 --> 00:17:58.875 in to try to manage through that. 00:17:58.955 --> 00:18:04.965 Our job is not to set the risk profile, of the business, it's to help enable 00:18:04.965 --> 00:18:09.665 their competitive advantage, whatever they decide that would be, and through that, 00:18:09.665 --> 00:18:14.905 we have to deliver a product that captures new regulations right on a regular basis. 00:18:14.915 --> 00:18:19.215 So we're constantly updating to make sure we have the latest in, or fuel, 00:18:19.215 --> 00:18:24.809 you or built into the platform, as well as, providing new data. 00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:29.769 Into it so that they can optimize around that, risk profile or P 00:18:29.769 --> 00:18:32.359 and L profile or whatever their competitive advantage, they say is, 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:34.969 VictoriaM: Oh, cool. 00:18:35.879 --> 00:18:39.109 So, one of the things we talk about a lot on the chemical show is, 00:18:39.139 --> 00:18:41.219 the customer experience, right? 00:18:41.919 --> 00:18:44.449 And, ultimately at the end of the day, that can be a key 00:18:44.449 --> 00:18:46.399 differentiator for companies. 00:18:47.249 --> 00:18:52.899 So when you think about your customers and how you serve them, why they do business 00:18:52.899 --> 00:18:58.369 with you, what's unique or critical about Besson's customer experience? 00:19:00.919 --> 00:19:02.039 Sean Riley: so I would say a couple of things. 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.659 first, I think one of the things that's unique is a lot 00:19:04.659 --> 00:19:05.699 of people talk about customers. 00:19:05.709 --> 00:19:06.689 That's what talks about clients. 00:19:07.699 --> 00:19:11.709 And it's a super small differentiator, right? 00:19:11.709 --> 00:19:13.709 Or super small nuance in the word. 00:19:14.064 --> 00:19:17.384 But there's an implication of partnership that I think comes with the word 00:19:17.384 --> 00:19:20.594 client or an implication of a level of service and commitment to them. 00:19:21.524 --> 00:19:26.224 that doesn't, versus the customer tends to be a bit more transactional in nature. 00:19:26.994 --> 00:19:31.184 1st and foremost, it's that, we view our clients as clients, and as partners 00:19:31.244 --> 00:19:33.974 and, we advise them, but they advise us. 00:19:33.974 --> 00:19:39.434 So it's very much a two way street, almost every product we've ever built. 00:19:39.859 --> 00:19:45.139 Has been in deep collaboration with our partners, right? 00:19:45.369 --> 00:19:50.169 As we add in enhancements to the product to handle new regulations, 00:19:50.169 --> 00:19:54.589 we go to our clients and we say, Hey, How are you handling this regulation? 00:19:54.589 --> 00:19:58.199 What's the timing, by which you need to have this in play? 00:19:58.219 --> 00:20:03.509 Because oftentimes a regulation goes in, January 1st, but clients 00:20:03.509 --> 00:20:04.379 are making decisions, right? 00:20:04.389 --> 00:20:07.569 January 21st, 2025, some, changes are coming. 00:20:08.189 --> 00:20:11.529 They're making decisions, in July for 2025. 00:20:11.539 --> 00:20:13.329 These are not, instantaneous things. 00:20:13.329 --> 00:20:14.539 So we need to have that stuff. 00:20:15.189 --> 00:20:17.909 built in so that I would say is the first piece of it. 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:20.849 I think the second piece is, we've been focused on maritime for 00:20:21.009 --> 00:20:23.479 20 years, and that's all we do. 00:20:23.869 --> 00:20:26.609 And so we have a level of expertise. 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:31.959 Within our team, we have a, an amazing global services team, that 00:20:31.959 --> 00:20:35.239 has a level of expertise in this world, not just shipping. 00:20:35.949 --> 00:20:36.749 But chemical shipping. 00:20:38.214 --> 00:20:38.954 And those are different. 00:20:39.654 --> 00:20:43.564 And, a lot of people from outside of the shipping world talk about, they 00:20:43.564 --> 00:20:48.914 talk about shipping as one monolithic entity, Or, industry and we know, 00:20:49.444 --> 00:20:53.944 And maybe they get to a container is different than a bulk carrier, but, 00:20:54.714 --> 00:20:59.524 we know that a chemical partial tanker behaves and operates very, differently. 00:20:59.909 --> 00:21:02.479 Then a VLCC, which is carrying crude oil, right? 00:21:02.479 --> 00:21:06.069 And, it's not to say we're the only ones that do that, but we understand the 00:21:06.069 --> 00:21:10.439 level of depth and the specificity of, how our clients work and the nuance of 00:21:10.439 --> 00:21:11.759 chemicals that's different than bulk. 00:21:13.249 --> 00:21:13.519 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:14.729 And I think that's a great point. 00:21:14.729 --> 00:21:15.749 I think it's so critical. 00:21:15.749 --> 00:21:19.939 I think you, people take it for granted, to your point from the outside. 00:21:19.939 --> 00:21:23.529 And if you're not embedded within an industry, you assume, maritime 00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:25.079 shipping is maritime shipping, right? 00:21:25.739 --> 00:21:28.529 what's the, but it's what's inside of it 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:29.569 matters. 00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:30.679 Sean Riley: it's different 00:21:30.874 --> 00:21:34.654 VictoriaM: Different treatments, different decisions, processes, different, 00:21:35.614 --> 00:21:38.204 regulatory frameworks, et cetera. 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:40.579 Sean Riley: shipping ethylene is different than shipping Nike. 00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:43.159 Like it just, it is. 00:21:43.189 --> 00:21:47.169 And, I think a lot of people coming from the outside don't 00:21:47.909 --> 00:21:49.399 necessarily appreciate that, 00:21:52.479 --> 00:21:53.749 maybe right at a high level, 00:21:53.794 --> 00:21:54.964 VictoriaM: you got into the industry? 00:21:56.179 --> 00:22:00.039 Sean Riley: not to the level I do now, I think I understood at a high 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:05.529 level, liquids are different than bulk, than dry bulk kind of thing. 00:22:05.539 --> 00:22:09.924 But, and I, Understood a little bit. 00:22:10.024 --> 00:22:12.614 I had done some work with some chemicals companies before. 00:22:13.044 --> 00:22:16.314 So I understood that the same stuff that makes, Barbies makes 00:22:16.314 --> 00:22:17.694 plastic explosives, right? 00:22:18.924 --> 00:22:22.134 and so there's a 9 11 change the chemical shipping. 00:22:23.154 --> 00:22:24.014 if you go way back, right? 00:22:24.024 --> 00:22:27.554 9, 11 change the chemical shipping world massively. 00:22:27.664 --> 00:22:29.004 So I would say I understood it. 00:22:30.104 --> 00:22:33.624 At some level, but probably not, as appreciative of the nuances. 00:22:33.644 --> 00:22:36.734 Maybe I am today and I would say, we have people with 00:22:36.734 --> 00:22:38.104 investment who understand a way, 00:22:39.194 --> 00:22:40.014 VictoriaM: Absolutely. 00:22:40.044 --> 00:22:41.714 Sean Riley: a level way more than even than I do, 00:22:42.214 --> 00:22:42.914 VictoriaM: Absolutely. 00:22:42.984 --> 00:22:43.244 Yeah. 00:22:45.034 --> 00:22:47.274 there's the leadership and then there's the practitioner. 00:22:47.274 --> 00:22:50.884 The practitioners are always going to be, SME subject matter experts. 00:22:50.884 --> 00:22:54.314 They're, they really know it in and out, in ways that 00:22:54.384 --> 00:22:55.774 others can't fully appreciate. 00:22:56.794 --> 00:23:00.354 Sean Riley: no, I'm consistently reality checks by our team with ideas. 00:23:01.154 --> 00:23:04.484 I haven't yeah, it's not going to work, and they're like this, 00:23:04.514 --> 00:23:06.004 and okay, it's a good idea. 00:23:06.994 --> 00:23:07.324 VictoriaM: it's nice. 00:23:07.944 --> 00:23:08.844 I'm testing you guys. 00:23:08.844 --> 00:23:08.974 I'm 00:23:09.034 --> 00:23:11.494 Sean Riley: Yeah, not all my, I would say not all my ideas are good ideas. 00:23:11.554 --> 00:23:12.114 They're just ideas. 00:23:12.496 --> 00:23:16.046 VictoriaM: to talking about leadership, and your career experience. 00:23:18.804 --> 00:23:19.864 what advice do you have? 00:23:19.874 --> 00:23:22.124 Because I think one of the, what advice do you have to people? 00:23:22.399 --> 00:23:27.509 individuals that want to achieve success in the industry, such as you 00:23:27.509 --> 00:23:28.989 have, what's the difference maker. 00:23:29.889 --> 00:23:31.789 Sean Riley: So I don't know that there's like one. 00:23:33.009 --> 00:23:33.229 don't know. 00:23:33.229 --> 00:23:34.859 There's one thing that you can say. 00:23:34.859 --> 00:23:38.789 I think everyone every path is, unique. 00:23:39.239 --> 00:23:43.639 I think things that I would say about myself is, find things you 00:23:43.639 --> 00:23:49.049 like doing and do more of them, find ways to do a little bit more right? 00:23:49.049 --> 00:23:52.279 So when I was a strategy consultant, we always, you would set out 00:23:52.389 --> 00:23:54.539 the client would come to you and say, here's a set of questions 00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:55.819 that we would like you to answer. 00:23:56.219 --> 00:23:56.619 VictoriaM: Right. 00:23:57.029 --> 00:23:58.989 Sean Riley: And one of the partners that I used to work for a lot was 00:23:58.989 --> 00:24:03.819 like, Hey, one of the things that we always want to do is answer one, one 00:24:03.819 --> 00:24:05.609 or two more questions than they asked. 00:24:06.179 --> 00:24:08.379 And we'll uncover what those questions are throughout the 00:24:08.429 --> 00:24:12.909 course of this project and study or whatever, but we've got 12 questions. 00:24:12.909 --> 00:24:14.859 We want to answer 14. 00:24:15.149 --> 00:24:17.649 And what that's going to do is they realize, hey, we're going 00:24:17.649 --> 00:24:20.029 beyond just what they asked. 00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:20.619 We're doing more. 00:24:21.189 --> 00:24:25.089 and I think for, people are starting their career or up and coming in their 00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:27.839 career, like doing just a little bit more. 00:24:28.364 --> 00:24:30.674 And that's not like a little bit more than the bare minimum. 00:24:30.924 --> 00:24:34.124 usually you're asked, you're not asked to do the bare minimum, you're usually 00:24:34.124 --> 00:24:37.394 asked to do, something substantial, but do it, do a little bit more. 00:24:39.014 --> 00:24:42.934 and then just, I would say I'm a generally reasonably curious person. 00:24:42.934 --> 00:24:44.294 I like learning about new things. 00:24:44.684 --> 00:24:50.224 And so that serves you well, but also, I have, enough self confidence that I'm 00:24:50.234 --> 00:24:52.374 probably not afraid to, fail at things. 00:24:52.374 --> 00:24:56.074 So I've, screwed more things up than, I've screwed more 00:24:56.074 --> 00:24:57.364 things up than I've done well. 00:24:57.364 --> 00:25:03.104 And here I am, but, being not afraid and finding people who will tolerate that. 00:25:03.604 --> 00:25:04.934 Because I think one of the, 00:25:07.024 --> 00:25:11.104 mentors who will push you to screw things up and then we'll back you 00:25:11.104 --> 00:25:16.784 up is a really important, really important piece of, developing yourself. 00:25:16.989 --> 00:25:17.509 VictoriaM: Absolutely. 00:25:17.629 --> 00:25:20.539 And that's something you earn in some ways because you've 00:25:20.539 --> 00:25:21.849 gone beyond, you've answered 00:25:21.849 --> 00:25:23.839 the 14 questions instead of 12. 00:25:24.819 --> 00:25:27.579 you're not afraid to take those risks and 00:25:27.929 --> 00:25:28.579 recover. 00:25:29.054 --> 00:25:29.334 Sean Riley: yeah. 00:25:29.334 --> 00:25:33.564 And if they're, if they're a good leader, If, they understand that 00:25:33.904 --> 00:25:36.314 okay, you meant well, you were trying to do the right thing. 00:25:36.314 --> 00:25:38.954 You were trying to, you were trying to move forward. 00:25:39.454 --> 00:25:39.884 That helps. 00:25:39.884 --> 00:25:41.044 And, you do learn stuff. 00:25:41.364 --> 00:25:43.814 I think everybody wants to work also for the best boss ever. 00:25:43.814 --> 00:25:48.574 But I also like I learned, some of the best things I learned were from people. 00:25:48.574 --> 00:25:51.354 I never want to work for again because I was like, oh, don't want to do that. 00:25:52.044 --> 00:25:55.284 if I ever find myself doing that, I better stop. 00:25:55.934 --> 00:25:56.204 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:25:56.264 --> 00:25:56.864 I think it's great. 00:25:57.174 --> 00:26:01.524 and I think, Yeah, we've all had great bosses and crappy bosses. 00:26:01.554 --> 00:26:06.264 And, one of my best bosses that I've learned the most from was 00:26:06.264 --> 00:26:10.634 the guy I was most afraid to go work for because he had a bad rep. 00:26:11.114 --> 00:26:12.824 He had a bit of a reputation. 00:26:13.044 --> 00:26:15.574 I was like, no, you can handle him. 00:26:16.194 --> 00:26:19.294 and I understood, what it took to be successful. 00:26:19.334 --> 00:26:22.754 And man, I grew so much from him. 00:26:23.094 --> 00:26:23.644 It was awesome. 00:26:25.204 --> 00:26:26.374 got to take those chances. 00:26:26.814 --> 00:26:29.594 Sean Riley: I also think , people are afraid a lot of feedback, right? 00:26:29.594 --> 00:26:35.184 And when someone gives you feedback, and I think one of the like big 00:26:35.194 --> 00:26:40.664 keys to success is like, whether you agree or not, with feedback, 00:26:41.554 --> 00:26:41.734 right? 00:26:41.734 --> 00:26:43.654 Feedback is the result of a perception. 00:26:44.504 --> 00:26:45.994 And so you have to deal with that. 00:26:46.104 --> 00:26:48.274 And so you can choose to be like, you know what? 00:26:49.019 --> 00:26:50.179 Victoria is wrong. 00:26:50.699 --> 00:26:52.159 She doesn't know what she's talking about. 00:26:52.719 --> 00:26:57.519 Or you can say, wait a minute, like Victoria thought this, and she may be 00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:03.909 wrong, but could someone else think that, and how do I, and how do I adapt to that? 00:27:03.949 --> 00:27:08.139 I believe like being able to take feedback and find the one that's Thing 00:27:08.139 --> 00:27:11.929 that you can do a little bit better and yourself is like a really key. 00:27:11.959 --> 00:27:12.529 It's a skill. 00:27:12.579 --> 00:27:16.359 Some people maybe do it naturally, but it is definitely an acquired skill, 00:27:16.969 --> 00:27:19.129 particularly when you don't always agree with the feedback you're going to be 00:27:19.324 --> 00:27:23.054 VictoriaM: Yeah, but I like, I agree with that, but I'd like your approach 00:27:23.054 --> 00:27:29.184 that it, it is a perception and you have to be aware that if one person has that 00:27:29.184 --> 00:27:31.434 perception, somebody else may as well. 00:27:32.044 --> 00:27:33.104 and so just 00:27:33.199 --> 00:27:34.119 Sean Riley: So we, 00:27:34.294 --> 00:27:34.664 VictoriaM: with it. 00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:40.329 Sean Riley: within our business, I talk to our team a lot about, 00:27:40.639 --> 00:27:41.959 and it relates to this, right? 00:27:41.959 --> 00:27:47.339 Client comes back to you and, or a team member does something and it's the concept 00:27:47.369 --> 00:27:50.819 of not my fault, but my problem, right? 00:27:50.919 --> 00:27:54.439 And it's like you, it may not be your fault, but It's our job 00:27:54.439 --> 00:27:56.759 and our, it's our problem, but we got to deal with it, right? 00:27:57.769 --> 00:28:00.429 Your teammate may not be very good at their job. 00:28:01.099 --> 00:28:04.339 It's not your fault, but we've got to deal with it. 00:28:04.649 --> 00:28:06.719 Client may have outrageous expectations. 00:28:07.189 --> 00:28:07.919 It's not your fault. 00:28:08.899 --> 00:28:15.299 We still have, you can't just roll over and say, that's outrageous. 00:28:15.329 --> 00:28:16.389 You're like, Oh, that's, 00:28:16.424 --> 00:28:16.604 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:28:16.844 --> 00:28:17.634 it is outrageous. 00:28:17.984 --> 00:28:19.544 And, then what, what are you 00:28:19.589 --> 00:28:20.019 Sean Riley: And then what? 00:28:20.019 --> 00:28:20.669 It may be. 00:28:21.339 --> 00:28:24.019 But we got to, we've got to move forward and deal with that. 00:28:24.019 --> 00:28:24.259 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:28:24.309 --> 00:28:24.829 I like that. 00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:25.719 And I think that's great. 00:28:25.719 --> 00:28:28.009 I think it applies to business life, leadership. 00:28:28.384 --> 00:28:30.484 Your customers and clients. 00:28:30.834 --> 00:28:31.364 Yeah, that's great. 00:28:31.544 --> 00:28:33.604 So what's next for Veson Nautical? 00:28:33.624 --> 00:28:37.164 What do you guys, what should we be looking for you over the rest 00:28:37.164 --> 00:28:38.704 of the year and into next year? 00:28:39.424 --> 00:28:41.584 Sean Riley: We have some really cool stuff coming. 00:28:42.564 --> 00:28:47.874 so we have some really cool products coming around, combining 00:28:47.874 --> 00:28:51.124 where, what I think are two big trends in the industry, right? 00:28:51.144 --> 00:28:56.074 In which, and I think they're trends across, they're horizontally, 00:28:56.094 --> 00:28:57.254 within shipping, right? 00:28:57.254 --> 00:28:58.574 They're horizontally applicable. 00:28:59.114 --> 00:29:03.264 the first is data and the use of data, and maybe three things, the use of, 00:29:03.804 --> 00:29:07.664 data, the use of data, some artificial intelligence and collaboration. 00:29:08.499 --> 00:29:11.829 and you knew you couldn't get through a, a podcast with a software 00:29:12.109 --> 00:29:14.869 company or data company and not talk about artificial intelligence. 00:29:14.869 --> 00:29:15.209 But, 00:29:16.649 --> 00:29:16.999 VictoriaM: real. 00:29:17.149 --> 00:29:19.659 Sean Riley: some, we've got some really cool stuff coming around that 00:29:19.709 --> 00:29:21.539 kind of brings those things together. 00:29:21.899 --> 00:29:24.209 We have some really cool stuff coming around. 00:29:24.529 --> 00:29:31.429 We believe that the industry very much wants, to connect, and wants to 00:29:31.429 --> 00:29:34.689 share data, and share information. 00:29:34.749 --> 00:29:34.789 to share information. 00:29:35.329 --> 00:29:36.729 Not all data, right? 00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:41.139 Not commercially sensitive data, not, strategic data, but there's 00:29:41.139 --> 00:29:45.489 a whole bunch of just, efficiencies that can be gained in the industry 00:29:45.499 --> 00:29:50.709 by us, as I referenced earlier, like singing from the same song sheet, and 00:29:51.899 --> 00:29:54.379 almost to a client, we hear that from. 00:29:54.439 --> 00:29:57.949 And so we've got some really cool stuff coming, in those areas, some 00:29:57.949 --> 00:30:01.689 between now and the end of the year, some, a couple of things in the early. 00:30:02.654 --> 00:30:04.284 Early 2025, but I'm 00:30:04.734 --> 00:30:05.744 super excited. 00:30:06.384 --> 00:30:07.974 and John Veson and I talk about this. 00:30:07.974 --> 00:30:15.234 Like we're, we have such cool stuff coming that we're really excited about where the 00:30:15.234 --> 00:30:17.044 product direction of Veson is right now. 00:30:17.179 --> 00:30:17.909 VictoriaM: that's really cool. 00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:18.429 I love it. 00:30:18.699 --> 00:30:23.519 and I think this piece around, if you hit it data AI and connection or 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:28.259 collaboration is critical right now, it's definitely where the industry is 00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:30.229 headed, whether they recognize it or not. 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:35.809 But it's this whole aspect that I think we've, we have to move past, being an 00:30:35.829 --> 00:30:39.459 island and being siloed across each other. 00:30:39.459 --> 00:30:45.229 Still having, as you say, confidentiality, et cetera, but we don't have 00:30:45.229 --> 00:30:46.879 to keep reinventing the wheel. 00:30:47.029 --> 00:30:52.529 We can learn with each other to solve today's problems and tomorrow's 00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:54.169 problems and build that better future. 00:30:54.994 --> 00:30:55.534 Sean Riley: Absolutely. 00:30:55.854 --> 00:30:56.204 Absolutely. 00:30:56.364 --> 00:30:56.834 It's coming. 00:30:56.894 --> 00:30:57.814 Collaboration is coming. 00:30:59.174 --> 00:31:02.324 how you do it and what you share and all that sort of stuff is TBD, but. 00:31:02.789 --> 00:31:07.229 And most people want it, the problem is I think a lot of people just, when soon 00:31:07.229 --> 00:31:12.879 as they hear it, they default to the like, are you sharing, publishing prices? 00:31:12.909 --> 00:31:15.589 No, you're not like, you're not sharing the most sensitive. 00:31:15.849 --> 00:31:17.089 Are you sharing our strategy? 00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:18.369 no, you wouldn't share your strategy. 00:31:18.569 --> 00:31:19.059 of course not. 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:20.769 But like, when's the ship arriving? 00:31:20.999 --> 00:31:22.209 That's like pretty good information to, 00:31:23.219 --> 00:31:24.469 VictoriaM: Yeah, absolutely. 00:31:24.689 --> 00:31:25.279 Sean Riley: that's pretty good. 00:31:25.369 --> 00:31:25.419 VictoriaM: to 00:31:25.449 --> 00:31:27.079 Sean Riley: could, we want to know, right? 00:31:27.089 --> 00:31:31.269 That's a great piece of, great piece of information to share. 00:31:31.709 --> 00:31:34.579 VictoriaM: I think, as we talked earlier in our conversation, some of 00:31:34.579 --> 00:31:38.229 the challenges and the trends that we're facing around environmental 00:31:38.239 --> 00:31:43.989 sustainability, geopolitics, the, volatility that's going on, people 00:31:43.989 --> 00:31:47.349 also want to understand, okay, so how are you approaching this? 00:31:48.109 --> 00:31:50.019 Because we all need solutions. 00:31:50.389 --> 00:31:55.989 And those better solutions may come from having more open conversations 00:31:55.989 --> 00:32:00.169 by sharing appropriate amounts of data, and collaborating to get there. 00:32:00.719 --> 00:32:05.739 And frankly, that's where the best ideas come from is they don't come 00:32:05.739 --> 00:32:07.629 from a single mind or a single company. 00:32:07.629 --> 00:32:10.809 They come from that shared vision and collaboration. 00:32:11.749 --> 00:32:12.549 Sean Riley: that's this idea. 00:32:12.549 --> 00:32:19.009 We talk about, so the roots of this and right are in the owner and charter side. 00:32:19.309 --> 00:32:24.429 So it's only in the last, 7 or 8 years that we, maybe a little longer, 00:32:24.429 --> 00:32:29.239 but, really started pushing into working with the, chemical producers. 00:32:29.739 --> 00:32:33.619 And through that segment of the market, right? 00:32:33.619 --> 00:32:37.019 We started to understand the concept of working like. 00:32:37.849 --> 00:32:39.529 Our clients, right? 00:32:39.579 --> 00:32:44.739 And eventually our clients became our clients, but it's that concept 00:32:44.779 --> 00:32:47.979 of, a shared client base, right? 00:32:49.179 --> 00:32:54.359 a shared platform and collaboration that, we see as a lot of the future 00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:58.089 of what Veson is, but, bigger than, it's a lot bigger than, 00:32:58.669 --> 00:32:59.719 VictoriaM: I think that's right. 00:32:59.729 --> 00:32:59.749 Yeah. 00:32:59.799 --> 00:33:00.009 Sean Riley: Veson 00:33:00.909 --> 00:33:02.909 VictoriaM: that's what a successful companies. 00:33:03.489 --> 00:33:09.119 In every industry recognize is that if I stop at my direct customer, 00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:11.569 I don't understand my business. 00:33:12.259 --> 00:33:16.139 I have to go to my customer's customer and my customer's customer 00:33:16.439 --> 00:33:20.769 to actually understand the value chain that impact the opportunity. 00:33:22.159 --> 00:33:26.369 Sean Riley: But it's a really cool time to be in, shipping and chemical shipping. 00:33:26.539 --> 00:33:26.919 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:33:27.669 --> 00:33:28.019 Awesome. 00:33:28.569 --> 00:33:29.009 I love it. 00:33:29.339 --> 00:33:29.949 thank you. 00:33:30.069 --> 00:33:30.689 Thanks, Sean. 00:33:30.699 --> 00:33:33.629 I really appreciate you joining me today on the chemical show. 00:33:34.269 --> 00:33:35.159 Sean Riley: Thanks for having me. 00:33:35.209 --> 00:33:36.619 I, it's a lot of fun. 00:33:36.739 --> 00:33:37.699 I like talking about vessels. 00:33:38.859 --> 00:33:40.169 and I like talking about our industry. 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.369 VictoriaM: I love it too. 00:33:41.469 --> 00:33:42.629 I like talking about the industry. 00:33:42.629 --> 00:33:45.959 I love talking about and learning about new companies and it's great 00:33:45.959 --> 00:33:49.419 to share it with other people in the industry who are also interested, 00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:50.739 so appreciate it. 00:33:51.089 --> 00:33:51.589 Sean Riley: Thank you. 00:33:52.369 --> 00:33:52.629 VictoriaM: All right. 00:33:52.629 --> 00:33:54.349 And thanks everyone for joining us today. 00:33:54.659 --> 00:33:57.009 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:33:57.009 --> 00:33:58.459 talk with you again soon.