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Bryant Gillespie: Hi guys.

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Welcome to the next edition of
the better sign shop podcast.

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I've got my friend and colleague Peter
Caris, the sign shop Yoda with me.

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Hey

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Peter Kourounis: Pete.

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What's up, everybody.

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What's going on, Brian.

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How you doing man

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Bryant Gillespie: and missing today
is Mike the sign burrito, Riley?

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Yeah, having technical difficulties,

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Peter Kourounis: apparently Mike lives in
like the Bermuda triangle, nothing works.

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There's no wifi.

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There's no apps.

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There's no microphone.

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There's no cameras.

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It's just not there.

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Bryant Gillespie: All right.

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what's the update with you, Pete.

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How's how are things?

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My man.

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Peter Kourounis: very
busy on a lot of fronts.

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we just completed a couple of projects
on the consulting side, working on

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some really great new projects with
some new clients on programming, some

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products in their shop box accounts.

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My sign shop is busy,
pumping out estimates.

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I actually got in the bucket
truck last week, which was nice.

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I haven't done that in a little bit.

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did you put up search?

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no.

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Listen, my installation days.

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behind me.

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I'm not a, well, I shouldn't
say they're behind me.

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I am not the skilled installer by any
chance, but definitely training somebody

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on like safety procedures on, on the
bucket, how to stay safe, how to use it,

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how to operate it efficiently, obviously,
with the prices of gas these days, I

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don't like wasting that kind of money.

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So, just training them on best
practices on how to use the.

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Got I met a couple of new people this
week met a couple of new vendors.

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I'm really excited about implementing
in my team, in my system.

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And, they'll be coming out
here, hopefully next week.

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I think they're gonna come out here
and meet my team and supply us with

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a whole butt load of samples and
really cool new things that, we can.

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Get introduced to in our market.

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I'm really excited about, are you going

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Bryant Gillespie: tease
everybody about it?

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Peter Kourounis: I'll let you know
after I'll let you know, after I, I

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validate it, I'm I got I'm hopeful.

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I'm hopeful.

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but we'll see.

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We'll see, I've seen really
cool promises before.

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Bryant Gillespie: haven't we all

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Peter Kourounis: what's going on in your

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Bryant Gillespie: world.

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our middle daughter started pre.

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This week, so,

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Peter Kourounis: oh yeah.

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That's right.

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Like school started like for almost
everybody these past weeks, right?

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Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, I was really concerned.

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I thought, okay, I'm gonna get
a call from the, uh, Principal

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like, Hey, you gotta come get her.

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she's either a screaming and
crying uncontrollably or it B is

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being very mean and has knocked
somebody out or something like that.

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But she loves it, man.

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So I'm super proud of her.

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We shoved her out of the
van on Tuesday morning.

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Her first day, she kind
of was nervous about it.

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You could tell that look in her face.

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She was like, ah, I don't know.

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I wanna, can you guys walk me in?

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We're like, Nope.

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That's not how this works.

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You get out that nice lady
over there will walk you in.

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Peter Kourounis: so
this was her first day.

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This was her first day.

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You're doing yeah.

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Her first day.

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Yeah.

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And you've gone through this.

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How many other times.

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just once before, I've
never gone through this.

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And I think about it.

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My, I probably won't be going through it
for a couple years, but I think about it

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every day, how I'm going to react when
that happens, whether that school bus

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comes or whether I have to drop it off
at school and I'm gonna deal with like

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the terror of crying I might be crying.

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I'm probably going to cry.

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I think it'll be like the hardest day.

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I need to take off of like
work for a week because.

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Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, it is
definitely a mental health a day.

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Yeah.

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The first time around, I was definitely,
there were tears in my, I don't know

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if I would call it like bawling and
squalling or anything like that,

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but definitely shed a couple tears.

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But, you, this time around, I
still felt all those emotions,

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but, know, my wife is a little
more emotional than I am at times.

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So, she definitely balled her eyes out.

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Yeah.

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It's yeah, it's definitely a tough
day, but a proud moment as well.

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the other stuff kind of pales in
comparison to that, but yeah, we've

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been working on the platform a bit.

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We've made some progress there, so
excited to, hopefully throw some news

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out there about the signed pricing
course and the rest of it soon.

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Peter Kourounis: You're like a, you're
like a brainiac when it comes to this

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sort of thing, you keep updating us with
like screenshots of what it looks like.

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And I gotta tell you, you have come
up with some really great ideas and

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things that I couldn't even think of.

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And just stemming from a couple
of conversations that you and

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I've had over the past few weeks.

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Like you, what you've done with that
platform is just it's greatness.

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It's greatness.

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This industry is going to need it.

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I I'm not, I'm dancing
around calling you a guru.

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Yeah, well, listen, if you guys
don't know what we're talking

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about right now, that's okay.

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You'll find out soon enough, what
this soon enough, what this platform

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that we're talking about is all about.

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We're gonna be, we're gonna put the, the
finishing touches on it here and up in the

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upcoming days where I should say Bryant's
gonna put the finishing touches on it,

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cuz I have not the slightest idea how he
does what he does, but it looks great.

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It functions fantastic.

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And there will be a lot of really
compelling resources that we have talked

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about here on, on some of these podcasts
and some of our mastermind calls and

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these resources are just gonna be readily
available for you to use because, and like

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I said, I may have said this on another
call, nobody is doing what we're doing.

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Nobody is even coming close to doing what
we are going to do for sign, shop owners.

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It is.

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Something I am up my man.

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Bryant Gillespie: That's really
excited about to live up to

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. 
Peter Kourounis: Well, I think I
think you got some of the best minds

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in the business, in this mastermind.

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Lot of great people have gotten some
good feedback and Hey, if you want to

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make a suggestion, I saw a suggestion
here, in one of the comments, but if

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you wanna make a suggestion, you can do.

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Just get us up, hit us up on the Facebook
chat, tell us what you'd like to see,

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and we'll throw it into the pipeline.

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Maybe we'll get it edited.

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Bryant Gillespie: So I guess
we should probably actually

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get into the topic today.

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So, what do we got today?

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We've got a couple of guests actually
joining us from Hilltop signs and

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graphics, Mike Davis and Scott Dean.

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They're gonna be on in just a little bit.

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we're gonna have those guys on for
a conversation about their shop.

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They

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Peter Kourounis: got a really great story.

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They got a really great story.

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Ah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Bryant Gillespie: I like the story, man.

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And I look forward to
chatting with those guys.

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so the topic.

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we've talked about this on one
of our other mastermind calls

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recently is the looming recession
or the inflation monster.

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I think the code name we
gave this one was surviving.

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The next shop apocalypse.

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is COVID classified as a recession.

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Peter Kourounis: well, I don't know.

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Most people do.

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they use the term very loosely.

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I mean, it, I call it the shut down, what
that means, shut down what that means to

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somebody it's different for everybody,
but I know certain shops stayed open.

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Certain shops never closed.

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So for some shops, it was
just a matter of like mine.

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Just a matter of.

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Figuring out a way to
not be stubborn and pivot

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Bryant Gillespie: yeah.

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I'm gonna read some headlines off to
you because I was researching this one.

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These are like some of
the top stories right now.

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Worse is yet to come economist.

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Steven Roach says us needs a
miracle to avoid the recession.

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Steve hanky says we're going to
have a Whopper of a recession.

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I don't know like why that was in quotes.

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Peter Kourounis: we're gonna
have lots of burger king,

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Bryant Gillespie: 72% of economists say
we're gonna have a recession in 2023.

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. So you read some of these headlines, it's
all doom and gloom, whether that is fact

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or not, or whether it comes to fruition.

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I, we obviously can't give
that prediction, but I think

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Peter Kourounis: when
you're re oh, go ahead.

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When you're research, when you're
researching those topics, Do you

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see anything that's positive?

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Do you see anything that says there's
not gonna be a recession in 2023?

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Stop listening to the ho focus,
stop listening to the BS.

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Is there any of that?

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let's see.

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Bryant Gillespie: well here's
one Nobel prize winning economist

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says he doesn't see anything that
resembles a recession in the us.

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So.

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Yeah, there is no consensus on this, but,
you talk to a lot of people, everybody

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is obviously concerned about inflation,
which is at 8.5% here in the us.

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yeah, for the average guy that
gets a 3% raise every year.

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That's obviously not even keeping.

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Pace with that.

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So materials are going up, prices
for everything are going up.

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It's my kids drink like
six gallons of milk a week.

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so milk is like outrageous right now.

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I feel like a 85 year old man,
Hey, back in the day, like

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Peter Kourounis: the milk man
used to come to the door and it

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used to be a dollar 15, a bottle.

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Now it's tow dollars and 15 cents a
bottle gave that's highway robber.

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Bryant Gillespie: That's
exactly what I feel like.

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But yeah, obviously this is, I just
come up a lot in our mastermind group.

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It's come up with, some of the other
posts I've seen on the sign shop groups.

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Are we entering a recession?

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Are we already in a recession?

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What do we do about the crazy inflation?

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if we do NRA recession, how
can we protect our shop?

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So that's the topic today.

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Me.

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Peter Kourounis: Let me ask you.

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away.

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Oh no.

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I got a bold opening statement.

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Oh, okay.

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Okay.

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I'll around this entire theory.

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Bryant Gillespie: are we in a
recession now or is one coming soon?

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Peter Kourounis: Yeah.

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listen, I think that I'm not an economist.

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I have money in the market money in real.

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and doesn't matter what
channel you turn on.

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You're going to get different information.

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Are we heading into a recession?

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there are a lot of differences
between today's economic climate and.

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Well, our last three recessions, in
our last economic climate, it's, there

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are a lot of differences in technology.

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There are things that we can
do today that we were not doing

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in 2007, 2008, late into 2009.

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the ability of being able to
work remotely was a hard, was

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not even a thought that long ago.

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So do I think that certain markets are
gonna get affected by what's going on

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or have been affected by what's going
on certain in industries being affected?

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I think the short answer is yes.

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And, but I'm not going
to put the hammer down.

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yes, we're going into a recession.

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or you, yeah.

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Shut your shops down.

240
00:11:20,085 --> 00:11:21,987
No, that's not where I'm going.

241
00:11:21,987 --> 00:11:25,467
I think the, that I want you to
understand is that no matter what,

242
00:11:25,467 --> 00:11:30,507
it's called a crisis or inflation,
we're going into inflation.

243
00:11:30,777 --> 00:11:32,037
What the hell does that even mean?

244
00:11:33,357 --> 00:11:39,081
You, the president of the country
just got on the Twitter, like a

245
00:11:39,081 --> 00:11:42,861
week ago and said, I'm eliminating.

246
00:11:43,761 --> 00:11:45,651
School debt or whatever.

247
00:11:45,651 --> 00:11:47,991
It was $10,000 worth of student loan debt.

248
00:11:48,411 --> 00:11:51,247
I was like, hell yeah, go team.

249
00:11:51,297 --> 00:11:51,987
I didn't care.

250
00:11:51,987 --> 00:11:56,007
Who's in office, but I was like,
that's if that's something that affects

251
00:11:56,007 --> 00:11:59,511
the climate again, I, the economy,
I don't know what the long term

252
00:11:59,511 --> 00:12:01,364
ramifications, I'm a sign shop owner, man.

253
00:12:01,364 --> 00:12:06,164
I don't care what goes on in those
rooms with all those politicians

254
00:12:06,164 --> 00:12:07,634
and people that make this official.

255
00:12:08,864 --> 00:12:14,984
all I not wanna know is what does my daily
routine look like when this does happen.

256
00:12:16,094 --> 00:12:21,134
And for a lot of us that have that
technician mindset, or even a manager's

257
00:12:21,139 --> 00:12:27,383
mindset or an owner's mindset, that is a
very different for everyone involved, does

258
00:12:27,383 --> 00:12:30,683
your, do your employees need to have a
conver, do you need to have a conversation

259
00:12:30,683 --> 00:12:35,143
with your employees ex expecting
them to be flexible with time off?

260
00:12:35,678 --> 00:12:40,808
To work around some of these hard
costs that you're gonna be expecting.

261
00:12:41,348 --> 00:12:48,608
Are the owners going to have to look at
manufacturing things themselves rather

262
00:12:48,608 --> 00:12:50,468
than outsourcing giving way more margin?

263
00:12:50,468 --> 00:12:53,538
Because wholesale rates have increased.

264
00:12:54,878 --> 00:12:58,568
There is a lot to unpack
about how this can affect.

265
00:12:59,633 --> 00:13:03,143
Sign shop owner again, specific to
this channel, this station here,

266
00:13:03,533 --> 00:13:06,464
we're talking about sign, shop
owners, print, shop owners, alike.

267
00:13:06,704 --> 00:13:09,224
We want you to have a better sign shop.

268
00:13:09,374 --> 00:13:10,544
That is the name of the show.

269
00:13:10,544 --> 00:13:11,714
We want you to have a better sign shop.

270
00:13:11,714 --> 00:13:15,164
So in other words, how does that happen?

271
00:13:15,164 --> 00:13:16,424
What does that look like?

272
00:13:16,464 --> 00:13:18,264
and honestly that's where
the question starts.

273
00:13:18,294 --> 00:13:21,384
That's where this whole thing
starts is if somebody gets on

274
00:13:21,384 --> 00:13:25,554
the TV today and declares, the
United States is in a recess.

275
00:13:26,299 --> 00:13:29,499
I don't know who that would be,
but if somebody of high stature

276
00:13:29,499 --> 00:13:34,239
gets on whatever news channel
you watch and says, guess what?

277
00:13:34,239 --> 00:13:38,709
Everybody we're in a recession, be
prepared to shut down your businesses.

278
00:13:41,979 --> 00:13:43,539
How are you going to pivot?

279
00:13:44,034 --> 00:13:46,134
And that's gonna be the topic of today.

280
00:13:46,162 --> 00:13:50,987
I hope we're gonna hear how this existing
sign shop owner and his, and his partners

281
00:13:50,987 --> 00:13:56,687
here were able to pivot during the last
crisis, which was COVID when everybody

282
00:13:56,687 --> 00:13:58,157
else shut down, what did they do?

283
00:13:58,169 --> 00:14:02,118
I'm really eager to hear their story,
again, and kind of introduce what

284
00:14:02,118 --> 00:14:03,438
they did to you guys out there.

285
00:14:04,908 --> 00:14:05,118
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

286
00:14:06,168 --> 00:14:08,658
Well said, man, you weren't
lying about the great intro.

287
00:14:09,228 --> 00:14:09,658
I like it.

288
00:14:09,658 --> 00:14:14,569
if we harken back to the great
shutdown of COVID, what were some of

289
00:14:14,569 --> 00:14:16,129
the things that you guys experienced?

290
00:14:16,134 --> 00:14:18,444
were some of the changes that you
guys had to make in your shop?

291
00:14:18,444 --> 00:14:18,684
Pete?

292
00:14:20,664 --> 00:14:22,714
Peter Kourounis: Well, I did
have to lay some people off.

293
00:14:22,924 --> 00:14:25,228
That is, that was, that was a.

294
00:14:26,473 --> 00:14:28,213
A detriment to what had happened.

295
00:14:28,263 --> 00:14:29,613
certain employees did not come back.

296
00:14:29,613 --> 00:14:30,603
They wanted to stay home.

297
00:14:30,603 --> 00:14:34,045
They wanted unemployment, you can't,
you're not gonna be able to solve

298
00:14:34,045 --> 00:14:37,255
everybody's problems, but some people
just would've rather stayed home.

299
00:14:37,255 --> 00:14:38,305
So I lost some employees.

300
00:14:38,365 --> 00:14:41,405
I kept the key ones, which
was a vital piece for me.

301
00:14:41,405 --> 00:14:44,047
I never had to dip into.

302
00:14:44,064 --> 00:14:48,624
any type of reserve account, because we
were able to keep things going, but just

303
00:14:48,624 --> 00:14:53,737
under a different type of strategy, we
were no longer doing business science.

304
00:14:54,247 --> 00:15:00,157
And I say that with, I never thought
I'd honestly ever say that a sign shop

305
00:15:00,162 --> 00:15:02,107
where I never did signs for businesses.

306
00:15:02,197 --> 00:15:08,297
It was nonstop in droves lawn
signs and birthday signs.

307
00:15:09,752 --> 00:15:14,942
Graduation signs and high school
signs because you couldn't attend a

308
00:15:14,942 --> 00:15:16,832
high school or college graduation.

309
00:15:16,832 --> 00:15:22,952
So parents were thinking of ways
to celebrate the occasion, the

310
00:15:22,952 --> 00:15:24,812
monumental occasion of graduating.

311
00:15:24,817 --> 00:15:26,432
So there was a lot of that.

312
00:15:26,582 --> 00:15:29,612
And I just happened, I don't know
if it's lightning in a bottle.

313
00:15:29,612 --> 00:15:34,922
I don't know if it was, I don't know
if it was just luck, but whatever

314
00:15:34,922 --> 00:15:37,262
it was, I happened to be in a very.

315
00:15:38,072 --> 00:15:42,752
Heavily saturated market,
where there's tons of schools.

316
00:15:43,292 --> 00:15:44,972
There's tons of kids.

317
00:15:44,972 --> 00:15:49,022
There's tons of people living
in several towns in five mile,

318
00:15:49,052 --> 00:15:50,792
within a five mile diameter.

319
00:15:51,212 --> 00:15:51,692
I'm go.

320
00:15:51,692 --> 00:15:53,942
I have, I.

321
00:15:54,332 --> 00:15:57,242
Millions of people that
live in these towns.

322
00:15:57,842 --> 00:16:00,362
So I was very fortunate,
especially when you could see

323
00:16:00,372 --> 00:16:02,013
oh, that kid just got assigned.

324
00:16:02,013 --> 00:16:03,183
Now this neighbor got one.

325
00:16:03,183 --> 00:16:04,263
And then that neighbor got one.

326
00:16:04,263 --> 00:16:06,393
And how it's steamrolled for showed.

327
00:16:06,398 --> 00:16:07,953
Yeah, they kind of, after that

328
00:16:07,953 --> 00:16:08,763
Bryant Gillespie: social proof.

329
00:16:08,793 --> 00:16:09,123
Yeah.

330
00:16:10,503 --> 00:16:13,053
Peter Kourounis: And we put up one,
I've never did anything like this,

331
00:16:13,053 --> 00:16:16,053
where I was taking orders through
Facebook and through Instagram, I

332
00:16:16,053 --> 00:16:17,883
had never, that's not my strategy.

333
00:16:17,883 --> 00:16:23,223
That's not our shop's target market,
but this is what we were living off of.

334
00:16:23,628 --> 00:16:28,158
I had some of the best sales months
doing this, and I'm not afraid to admit.

335
00:16:29,073 --> 00:16:34,945
I'm not afraid to admit it, 70, $80,000
a month in corrugated plastic signs.

336
00:16:35,215 --> 00:16:43,210
I mean, I mean, we were stockpiling H
stakes and order every, it seemed every

337
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,000
hour we were calling suppliers from, and
this is, this was again being resourceful.

338
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,724
you have to, you, you're a local guy.

339
00:16:49,724 --> 00:16:51,434
You can't just rely on
the local guy anymore.

340
00:16:51,434 --> 00:16:54,494
I was ordering things
from Canada, Colorado.

341
00:16:54,704 --> 00:16:55,424
I live in New York.

342
00:16:56,594 --> 00:17:00,224
. Ah, if yeah, send me that sheet
of core plus for $24 a sheet.

343
00:17:00,224 --> 00:17:01,004
I don't care.

344
00:17:01,364 --> 00:17:06,074
Get it over here because I'm making,
I gotta, because well, not because

345
00:17:06,074 --> 00:17:07,844
I cared about profits at that point.

346
00:17:07,904 --> 00:17:09,494
I, I mean, we were making profits.

347
00:17:09,494 --> 00:17:10,004
I mean, come on.

348
00:17:10,004 --> 00:17:12,584
It's ink final and corrugated plastic.

349
00:17:12,589 --> 00:17:13,814
We were killing it, but.

350
00:17:15,509 --> 00:17:16,529
I didn't care.

351
00:17:16,709 --> 00:17:21,779
I gotta keep the, I gotta keep the
doors open, making a sale running.

352
00:17:22,289 --> 00:17:22,379
Yeah.

353
00:17:22,379 --> 00:17:27,239
Making a sale was more important than
price costing materials like, oh yeah.

354
00:17:27,244 --> 00:17:30,659
H stakes are now $6 a stake
because we're low on supply.

355
00:17:30,689 --> 00:17:33,722
Well, I was like, keep it coming.

356
00:17:33,722 --> 00:17:34,502
Here's my credit card.

357
00:17:34,502 --> 00:17:36,332
You wanna live off of
your, you want my money?

358
00:17:36,392 --> 00:17:36,992
Here's my money.

359
00:17:37,562 --> 00:17:42,504
And I mean, okay, that's a pivot point
now, do we don't do that anymore?

360
00:17:43,074 --> 00:17:46,690
I think that wave is over, or has
been over for quite some time, but you

361
00:17:46,690 --> 00:17:48,370
know, you ask B a specific question.

362
00:17:48,370 --> 00:17:50,050
This is what our shop turned into.

363
00:17:50,260 --> 00:17:52,060
We morphed, I love that word.

364
00:17:52,330 --> 00:17:54,010
We morphed into.

365
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:59,500
A shop that was literally
pumping out fast signs.

366
00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:03,650
Like every 15 minutes, there was
a sign coming out the printer,

367
00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:06,081
and that's not how it is.

368
00:18:06,111 --> 00:18:06,651
Normally.

369
00:18:06,801 --> 00:18:07,731
That's not how it was.

370
00:18:07,731 --> 00:18:08,481
That's not how it is.

371
00:18:08,486 --> 00:18:09,411
That's not how it was.

372
00:18:09,416 --> 00:18:13,341
It's not, it's just this time period
where, how, I don't remember how

373
00:18:13,341 --> 00:18:15,652
long it was, but, we were doing
everything we could to keep the

374
00:18:15,652 --> 00:18:20,692
lights on and all my key employees,
my project managers, my installers.

375
00:18:21,052 --> 00:18:23,602
I sales people guess what they all did.

376
00:18:24,112 --> 00:18:26,042
They learned how to use a quo cutter.

377
00:18:26,071 --> 00:18:29,341
they learned how to become
efficient in pumping.

378
00:18:29,371 --> 00:18:30,721
They became delivery men.

379
00:18:30,751 --> 00:18:34,493
They became, and that was actually
like a bonding experience.

380
00:18:34,613 --> 00:18:38,153
Like we were in the trenches,
the owners were involved.

381
00:18:38,153 --> 00:18:40,491
I was involved, I had
nothing else going on.

382
00:18:40,701 --> 00:18:41,901
Everything was shut down.

383
00:18:41,901 --> 00:18:43,191
So why not?

384
00:18:43,191 --> 00:18:44,211
I was like, yeah, sure.

385
00:18:44,211 --> 00:18:44,661
I'll come.

386
00:18:44,661 --> 00:18:46,701
I'll spend some, I'll spend
the day with you guys.

387
00:18:46,768 --> 00:18:51,118
I used a coral cutter and I'm,
I don't have one of those Corex

388
00:18:51,118 --> 00:18:52,798
machines I used to, and not anymore.

389
00:18:52,798 --> 00:18:54,428
I would've made my life E easier.

390
00:18:54,428 --> 00:18:55,461
Colex machines rather.

391
00:18:55,461 --> 00:18:55,731
Sorry.

392
00:18:55,731 --> 00:18:56,091
Excuse me.

393
00:18:56,091 --> 00:18:56,281
Yeah.

394
00:18:56,281 --> 00:18:59,974
but yeah, listen, I mean, we morphed
into a shop where we built a better

395
00:18:59,974 --> 00:19:02,704
and stronger team coming out of COVID.

396
00:19:02,704 --> 00:19:04,204
I think we are now.

397
00:19:05,059 --> 00:19:06,049
we think about it a lot.

398
00:19:06,061 --> 00:19:08,111
Hey, remember, oh my God, that was crazy.

399
00:19:08,111 --> 00:19:12,247
when we did 22 boards in 15
minutes, like that was insane.

400
00:19:12,397 --> 00:19:13,147
That was insane.

401
00:19:13,147 --> 00:19:16,815
that time period, and, the, we call
it the box method and what we used

402
00:19:16,815 --> 00:19:18,555
to do to pump these things out.

403
00:19:18,555 --> 00:19:23,865
We had delivery zones and we were running
cars with little birthday signs on it.

404
00:19:23,870 --> 00:19:28,371
And, I mean, we don't do that now, but
what we turned ourselves into to survive.

405
00:19:29,386 --> 00:19:32,806
is what you have to do going into, you
have to actually, well, I'm not saying you

406
00:19:32,806 --> 00:19:39,196
have to, it's more of a philosophy if this
does happen again, if COVID 22 comes out.

407
00:19:39,826 --> 00:19:40,306
Okay.

408
00:19:40,306 --> 00:19:44,782
And if this happens again, hist,
history has to teach you something.

409
00:19:44,787 --> 00:19:46,012
So what are you going to do?

410
00:19:46,012 --> 00:19:49,132
And I hope that is going to pivot.

411
00:19:49,312 --> 00:19:50,752
Not necessarily shut down.

412
00:19:50,902 --> 00:19:53,199
And, I know I would pivot again and we

413
00:19:53,199 --> 00:19:53,379
Bryant Gillespie: would.

414
00:19:55,139 --> 00:19:59,519
lesson, number one, you gotta
be flexible in a recession or

415
00:20:00,179 --> 00:20:02,669
crisis or crazy environment.

416
00:20:04,739 --> 00:20:09,746
Well said, man, that's I didn't know the
extent of the banners and, corrugated

417
00:20:09,746 --> 00:20:13,826
signs that you guys were doing, but that's
yeah, I think a lot of people would get

418
00:20:13,826 --> 00:20:16,176
hung up on, Hey, that's not what we do.

419
00:20:16,176 --> 00:20:20,460
and certainly as you mentioned, that's not
what you did, but what you had to do and.

420
00:20:21,375 --> 00:20:23,235
You got through it came
out the other side better.

421
00:20:24,315 --> 00:20:25,665
So, yeah.

422
00:20:25,755 --> 00:20:26,145
All right.

423
00:20:26,266 --> 00:20:26,416
for sure.

424
00:20:26,656 --> 00:20:27,016
Yeah.

425
00:20:27,436 --> 00:20:30,076
Should we bring on our
guests, Mike and Scott?

426
00:20:30,586 --> 00:20:31,606
Peter Kourounis: Let's do it.

427
00:20:31,906 --> 00:20:32,326
Bring 'em in.

428
00:20:32,331 --> 00:20:32,476
All right.

429
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:37,750
Bryant Gillespie: All right guys.

430
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:42,790
So we are joined by our guests,
Mike Davis and Scott Dean of Hilltop

431
00:20:42,790 --> 00:20:45,580
signs and graphics out of Maryland.

432
00:20:45,585 --> 00:20:46,030
Right.

433
00:20:46,210 --> 00:20:46,900
Mike Davis: What part of Maryland?

434
00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:47,500
Southern Maryland.

435
00:20:47,860 --> 00:20:50,169
It's uh, Southern Maryland,
Hollywood, Maryland.

436
00:20:50,169 --> 00:20:53,313
So we're about 45 minutes
to an hour south of DC.

437
00:20:53,343 --> 00:20:54,133
So we're right.

438
00:20:54,133 --> 00:20:55,613
That sweet spot right around.

439
00:20:56,833 --> 00:20:57,263
excellent.

440
00:20:57,263 --> 00:20:59,423
Peter Kourounis: Do you get a lot of,
do you get a lot of customers in that

441
00:20:59,423 --> 00:21:03,767
triangle there that like, that Washington,
Virginia, Maryland market, you get a

442
00:21:03,767 --> 00:21:05,327
lot of, we do go into different states.

443
00:21:05,357 --> 00:21:05,657
Mike Davis: Yep.

444
00:21:05,987 --> 00:21:06,497
We do.

445
00:21:06,497 --> 00:21:06,917
We do.

446
00:21:06,917 --> 00:21:11,339
We actually, we service a pretty
wide section of the coast.

447
00:21:11,347 --> 00:21:15,224
well of the Northeast, I should say
pretty much the whole Mid-Atlantic region.

448
00:21:15,224 --> 00:21:19,660
We will travel to as long as,
customer's budgets allow for it.

449
00:21:19,665 --> 00:21:21,039
and the guys wanna travel.

450
00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:21,159
We.

451
00:21:22,494 --> 00:21:23,304
What's that like

452
00:21:23,454 --> 00:21:25,854
Peter Kourounis: working with
like different states and counties

453
00:21:25,944 --> 00:21:28,734
sign codes, like that's a lot
to manage just in one state.

454
00:21:29,184 --> 00:21:32,999
You guys get you can get a customer from
DC and it be like a half an hour from you.

455
00:21:33,419 --> 00:21:33,809
What's that?

456
00:21:33,879 --> 00:21:34,749
Mike Davis: I'll let Scott?

457
00:21:34,929 --> 00:21:35,739
reign in on.

458
00:21:35,889 --> 00:21:39,091
Well, on that one, he handles a
lot more of the, permit stuff and.

459
00:21:40,156 --> 00:21:41,176
He'll explain that part of

460
00:21:41,176 --> 00:21:41,296
Scott Dean: it.

461
00:21:41,606 --> 00:21:46,286
it, serendipity, I guess we, we
literally just got out of a meeting

462
00:21:46,286 --> 00:21:50,822
with me and Mike and our two permit,
people that do permits, like all the

463
00:21:50,822 --> 00:21:57,062
time and the amount of permits we do
and the amount of time it takes for

464
00:21:57,062 --> 00:22:00,332
them to do it is just ridiculous.

465
00:22:00,392 --> 00:22:04,023
And you, some of the stuff that
they have to do is not even.

466
00:22:04,863 --> 00:22:06,473
fact, I don't even understand it.

467
00:22:06,473 --> 00:22:11,013
You don't, it's the bureaucracy and
the, it, it just a simple story.

468
00:22:11,013 --> 00:22:15,273
We have a big Aldi we're doing a sign
for, and we've filed all the permits

469
00:22:15,513 --> 00:22:19,263
and we went on a site visit yesterday
and it wasn't the correct address.

470
00:22:19,263 --> 00:22:22,083
So we have to start from scratch
and it's been a two month process.

471
00:22:22,113 --> 00:22:22,723
Oh man.

472
00:22:22,723 --> 00:22:23,883
Pushing paperwork.

473
00:22:24,483 --> 00:22:27,363
And then we fi this, isn't the
address that's on your plans.

474
00:22:27,363 --> 00:22:28,983
And they're like, yeah,
this is our address.

475
00:22:28,983 --> 00:22:30,753
And we're like, well,
that's not what we filed.

476
00:22:30,753 --> 00:22:31,123
So that.

477
00:22:32,088 --> 00:22:35,448
And the bigger counties in Northern
Virginia, DC, not so much the

478
00:22:35,448 --> 00:22:38,228
local smaller counties in Maryland.

479
00:22:39,543 --> 00:22:41,973
tho those are just a
bureaucracy personified.

480
00:22:42,303 --> 00:22:43,143
It's ridiculous.

481
00:22:43,212 --> 00:22:45,792
Peter Kourounis: I imagine that's,
I imagine whether you guys do that

482
00:22:45,792 --> 00:22:49,482
yourself or whether you outsource
that, that's gotta be a challenging

483
00:22:49,482 --> 00:22:51,822
piece just from an SOP perspective.

484
00:22:51,822 --> 00:22:54,852
Like what information you have
to gather and things like that.

485
00:22:54,857 --> 00:22:57,205
So I imagine that's what I thought
of when you guys said Maryland

486
00:22:57,205 --> 00:22:58,525
and like you're in that DC area.

487
00:22:58,525 --> 00:23:01,983
I'm like, my God, they got, they could
probably do Crazy amount of paperwork

488
00:23:01,983 --> 00:23:06,498
that might make my life like explode, like
stressful, like stress to the MTH degree,

489
00:23:06,708 --> 00:23:08,358
just in that one factor right there.

490
00:23:08,392 --> 00:23:08,567
and

491
00:23:08,567 --> 00:23:10,067
Bryant Gillespie: I can't
imagine fighting the DC

492
00:23:10,067 --> 00:23:10,847
Scott Dean: traffic I there.

493
00:23:11,107 --> 00:23:14,117
Well, well, I tell you
to be, and it's not.

494
00:23:14,122 --> 00:23:18,026
And to try to explain that to a customer,
is it's hard to get through that.

495
00:23:18,056 --> 00:23:18,446
Okay.

496
00:23:18,446 --> 00:23:22,346
Our permit fee is what our permit fee
and they're like, that seems ridiculous.

497
00:23:22,866 --> 00:23:24,786
And then it, then we
always offer the option.

498
00:23:24,786 --> 00:23:25,986
You can file it yourself.

499
00:23:26,061 --> 00:23:29,181
and we said this in a meeting
today, every single one of them

500
00:23:29,181 --> 00:23:30,501
always come back saying no way.

501
00:23:30,561 --> 00:23:31,341
You guys got it.

502
00:23:32,331 --> 00:23:37,341
but you talked, you talk to one permit
expedite or one permit technician.

503
00:23:37,461 --> 00:23:39,531
Their answer is different
than this permit.

504
00:23:39,871 --> 00:23:40,721
Technician.

505
00:23:41,411 --> 00:23:41,761
It.

506
00:23:42,316 --> 00:23:46,159
it's, there's no standard format
for any county or within the county.

507
00:23:46,279 --> 00:23:47,659
It's usually a one off.

508
00:23:47,664 --> 00:23:48,409
It's always different.

509
00:23:48,619 --> 00:23:49,309
Always different.

510
00:23:49,309 --> 00:23:49,699
It's nuts.

511
00:23:49,939 --> 00:23:50,179
Peter Kourounis: Yep.

512
00:23:50,419 --> 00:23:50,929
Always different.

513
00:23:50,929 --> 00:23:53,959
So that's what makes it so stressful
is because it's always different.

514
00:23:54,199 --> 00:23:54,439
Right.

515
00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:55,489
Go ahead, Brett.

516
00:23:55,489 --> 00:23:58,512
Bryant Gillespie: So, so let's
back up for just a minute and, kind

517
00:23:58,512 --> 00:24:00,582
of get an overview of your shop.

518
00:24:00,677 --> 00:24:03,948
it can, one of you guys kind of
tell the listeners out there, what

519
00:24:03,948 --> 00:24:07,668
is Hilltop signs and graphics, kind
of, what segments do you guys serve?

520
00:24:07,668 --> 00:24:08,748
What type of products do you.

521
00:24:09,663 --> 00:24:09,843
Peter Kourounis: I'll

522
00:24:09,843 --> 00:24:10,533
Scott Dean: let Mike do that.

523
00:24:11,313 --> 00:24:11,613
Sure,

524
00:24:11,943 --> 00:24:12,093
Mike Davis: sure.

525
00:24:12,093 --> 00:24:12,783
I can cover that.

526
00:24:12,913 --> 00:24:14,803
so we are Hilltop signs and graphics.

527
00:24:14,877 --> 00:24:19,167
we are what we would consider, I
guess, a full service sign and graphics

528
00:24:19,167 --> 00:24:27,177
company, meaning we do pretty much every
segment that the industry has to offer.

529
00:24:27,732 --> 00:24:32,345
We offer everything from little yard
signs and banners to, fabricated

530
00:24:32,345 --> 00:24:37,831
pylons, channel letters, vehicle wraps,
vehicle lettering, striping, popup

531
00:24:37,831 --> 00:24:40,471
displays, pretty much you name it.

532
00:24:40,471 --> 00:24:44,521
If it is in the sign and or
graphics realm, we touch it.

533
00:24:44,521 --> 00:24:45,731
That includes service work.

534
00:24:45,731 --> 00:24:49,361
one thing that makes us a little bit
unique in our region, not necessarily

535
00:24:49,361 --> 00:24:53,591
unique to the industry, but unique
to our region is that we handle.

536
00:24:53,906 --> 00:24:56,336
The entire things start
to finish in house.

537
00:24:56,606 --> 00:25:04,196
So we design, we fabricate or farm out
the fabrication to our wholesalers,

538
00:25:04,201 --> 00:25:07,346
and then we install it, give you
a warranty on the installation.

539
00:25:07,346 --> 00:25:09,326
And we service it after the fact.

540
00:25:09,746 --> 00:25:13,750
So we have a ton of competitors
in our region, just like

541
00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:15,490
I'm sure most other shops.

542
00:25:16,075 --> 00:25:19,255
But not everybody does all of it.

543
00:25:19,975 --> 00:25:22,795
They might do the fabrication
and the installation, but they're

544
00:25:22,795 --> 00:25:25,943
like, eh, we don't really have,
graphic designers on staff.

545
00:25:25,943 --> 00:25:27,743
We can't do your branding for you.

546
00:25:28,043 --> 00:25:31,793
We can't handle those pieces and parts,
get something designed and then bring me a

547
00:25:31,793 --> 00:25:33,233
drawing and we'll build something for you.

548
00:25:33,653 --> 00:25:39,563
Well, that was one thing that when I
bought the company from my parents,

549
00:25:39,623 --> 00:25:42,443
that I said, you know what, we're gonna
do the whole thing start to finish.

550
00:25:43,433 --> 00:25:45,143
And that's really kind of set us apart.

551
00:25:45,713 --> 00:25:46,453
In our region.

552
00:25:47,293 --> 00:25:47,443
Peter Kourounis: Yeah.

553
00:25:47,473 --> 00:25:50,203
How was that buying the
business from your parents?

554
00:25:50,203 --> 00:25:51,823
Was that a smooth transaction?

555
00:25:51,823 --> 00:25:54,114
Was that a lot of no, we
don't wanna sell it to you.

556
00:25:54,114 --> 00:25:55,554
We wanna sell it to somebody else.

557
00:25:55,824 --> 00:25:57,024
What was the fricking

558
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:57,624
Mike Davis: frack like there?

559
00:25:58,254 --> 00:26:01,747
So I had already been running and trying.

560
00:26:04,132 --> 00:26:08,362
Trying to take over the company
essentially for about two years.

561
00:26:08,662 --> 00:26:13,987
And, this was 2009, 2010.

562
00:26:13,987 --> 00:26:18,727
So it was when the economy was
kind of in the tank and we were

563
00:26:18,727 --> 00:26:22,559
struggling to stay afloat, struggling
to get paid, had all these issues.

564
00:26:22,859 --> 00:26:26,429
And I had already been working
for two years to kind of turn

565
00:26:26,429 --> 00:26:28,019
things around and keep us rolling.

566
00:26:28,169 --> 00:26:29,729
We were finally.

567
00:26:30,164 --> 00:26:32,504
Coming out of it,
reputation was coming back.

568
00:26:32,564 --> 00:26:35,684
Vendors were getting paid,
cash flow was starting to roll.

569
00:26:36,134 --> 00:26:38,637
And, my mom was here
with me every single day.

570
00:26:38,691 --> 00:26:42,711
working, it was her company and she
came in one day and she said, I'm done.

571
00:26:43,371 --> 00:26:45,231
She said, either you buy
it or somebody else will.

572
00:26:45,921 --> 00:26:48,771
And she walked out the back
door, got in her car and she left

573
00:26:48,771 --> 00:26:52,041
Scott Dean: for the day  . She had,

574
00:26:52,134 --> 00:26:53,244
Mike Davis: I love that she had enough.

575
00:26:53,634 --> 00:26:54,778
Peter Kourounis: She
had, she just had enough.

576
00:26:55,378 --> 00:26:55,528
Yeah.

577
00:26:55,558 --> 00:26:56,760
The stress got to her Mike.

578
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,412
Well, tell me, what was
the shop like back then?

579
00:26:59,452 --> 00:27:01,312
what was it like to be in that shop?

580
00:27:01,312 --> 00:27:02,512
What were you guys doing back then

581
00:27:02,842 --> 00:27:03,292
Mike Davis: in terms of.

582
00:27:04,372 --> 00:27:06,325
So it was a very different
company back then.

583
00:27:06,325 --> 00:27:08,815
So we were not Hilltop signs and graphics.

584
00:27:08,815 --> 00:27:12,265
At that time, we were
Hilltop graphics and gifts.

585
00:27:12,625 --> 00:27:18,379
So we were a, we were a graphics
and gift company and, we did, we

586
00:27:18,379 --> 00:27:20,335
still did our, our vehicle graphics.

587
00:27:20,335 --> 00:27:21,265
We still did wraps.

588
00:27:21,342 --> 00:27:24,157
lettering striping, we
still do ch class signage.

589
00:27:24,157 --> 00:27:26,557
We still did pylon panels
and that type of thing.

590
00:27:26,592 --> 00:27:29,772
but we also offered dye sub based gifts.

591
00:27:29,777 --> 00:27:34,242
So t-shirts mouse pads, coffee
mugs, Christmas ornaments,

592
00:27:34,302 --> 00:27:35,472
all kinds of different stuff.

593
00:27:35,582 --> 00:27:41,622
and when I bought the company, I
literally had already spent two

594
00:27:41,622 --> 00:27:43,722
years shifting us into new stuff.

595
00:27:44,727 --> 00:27:47,576
Fabricated signage, L
E D retrofits, stuff.

596
00:27:47,606 --> 00:27:49,826
We didn't, it was pretty
much two employees.

597
00:27:49,826 --> 00:27:51,266
It was me and my mom.

598
00:27:51,266 --> 00:27:54,806
So I had to do things that I could
handle with pretty much myself

599
00:27:54,806 --> 00:27:58,526
and a couple buddies in evenings
and weekends in terms of installs.

600
00:27:58,796 --> 00:28:02,936
So the scale of things was still
relatively small back then, but

601
00:28:02,962 --> 00:28:06,532
I started the shift of us going
in that commercial direction.

602
00:28:06,615 --> 00:28:07,035
very nice.

603
00:28:07,035 --> 00:28:09,956
when I purchased the company, changed the.

604
00:28:10,401 --> 00:28:14,961
Hilltop signs and graphics, which is what
we are now and all of those gift items

605
00:28:15,261 --> 00:28:18,970
that I mentioned earlier, pretty much
overnight, they were no longer offered.

606
00:28:18,982 --> 00:28:19,582
you gotta sell

607
00:28:19,582 --> 00:28:22,552
Bryant Gillespie: a lot of coffee
mugs to make a million dollars.

608
00:28:22,732 --> 00:28:26,407
Mike Davis: And I know that the ad
specialty market in our industry, I

609
00:28:26,407 --> 00:28:28,007
know that there are a lot of shops that.

610
00:28:28,037 --> 00:28:32,052
D sub gifts and, small items and,
small orders and stuff like that.

611
00:28:32,412 --> 00:28:36,492
But the thing that I found when I started
looking is I was like, man, I could

612
00:28:36,492 --> 00:28:46,842
do one tenant panel in a pylon and say
it's a $450 order at 35 to 40% margin.

613
00:28:46,842 --> 00:28:47,732
Plus I charge for.

614
00:28:49,456 --> 00:28:52,640
and Let's say the profit on that
piece is, I don't know, 150 bucks,

615
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:53,810
200 bucks, something like that.

616
00:28:54,890 --> 00:29:00,920
Or I could do one coffee mug who I charge
$15 retail for, and I think I'm making

617
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,140
about three bucks and it probably takes
about the same amount of time to make that

618
00:29:06,290 --> 00:29:09,080
tenant panel as it did that coffee mug.

619
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,400
And so.

620
00:29:10,665 --> 00:29:14,465
Once I did the math on that, it was
like the dollars and cents was obvious.

621
00:29:14,615 --> 00:29:17,615
It was like the gift items,
just ain't where it's at, unless

622
00:29:17,615 --> 00:29:19,305
somebody's ordering 300 of 'em.

623
00:29:19,775 --> 00:29:24,575
And even then when I started looking
at the bigger stuff, like doing

624
00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:27,545
channel letters and some of the other
larger fabricated pieces that we do

625
00:29:27,545 --> 00:29:32,119
now, man, I could make, three, four
grand on a piece that I never touch

626
00:29:32,899 --> 00:29:37,959
or make 300 bucks on a set of mugs
that I have to spend three days doing.

627
00:29:38,704 --> 00:29:43,126
And it's it just, it was, it was very
obvious what direction we were gonna

628
00:29:43,126 --> 00:29:44,716
hit the writing was on the wall.

629
00:29:44,776 --> 00:29:45,556
Yeah, absolutely.

630
00:29:45,886 --> 00:29:46,456
Peter Kourounis: Absolutely.

631
00:29:46,456 --> 00:29:48,256
So, so Mike, I got a real for me.

632
00:29:48,256 --> 00:29:51,496
This is the million dollar
question that I have for you.

633
00:29:51,593 --> 00:29:56,082
just listening to your story so far,
we've in this show and prior episodes,

634
00:29:56,082 --> 00:29:59,569
and even in our mastermind group,
we talk a lot about the mindset of

635
00:29:59,569 --> 00:30:01,009
an owner and where they come from.

636
00:30:01,009 --> 00:30:03,177
There's a lot of talk and a
lot of discussion between a

637
00:30:03,177 --> 00:30:04,287
lot of us get in this business.

638
00:30:05,592 --> 00:30:05,862
we did.

639
00:30:05,892 --> 00:30:07,933
We want, we were sticking, working
for the men and we just thought

640
00:30:07,933 --> 00:30:09,373
we could do it better ourselves.

641
00:30:10,123 --> 00:30:13,651
So you came into this as an, as a
technician, as an operations manager with

642
00:30:13,651 --> 00:30:16,734
your mom and a former company of, Hilltop.

643
00:30:16,758 --> 00:30:18,020
graphics and gifts.

644
00:30:18,050 --> 00:30:18,380
Right?

645
00:30:18,435 --> 00:30:22,245
And then what's it been like for
you and I don't, I'm not talking

646
00:30:22,245 --> 00:30:25,172
about from a, what you can do with
your hands perspective, but like

647
00:30:25,172 --> 00:30:27,432
now you're a business owner, right?

648
00:30:27,503 --> 00:30:31,353
and if you didn't do a single
installation or a single retrofit,

649
00:30:31,353 --> 00:30:32,581
what's it been like for you?

650
00:30:33,506 --> 00:30:36,926
To learn how to run your
books or running a business or

651
00:30:37,136 --> 00:30:38,996
marketing budgets and planning.

652
00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:43,406
What's that been like from a
technician mindset to a shift

653
00:30:43,406 --> 00:30:45,116
where now you are an entrepreneur.

654
00:30:45,116 --> 00:30:46,046
Now you are a business.

655
00:30:46,051 --> 00:30:46,856
What's that been like for you?

656
00:30:48,416 --> 00:30:49,376
Mike Davis: It's been a long road.

657
00:30:50,486 --> 00:30:54,657
it's been, it's been a very long
road, a lot of making mistakes, a

658
00:30:54,662 --> 00:31:00,747
lot of spending, way too many hours
trying to avoid being the entrepreneur

659
00:31:00,752 --> 00:31:02,517
and stay in that technician role.

660
00:31:02,997 --> 00:31:08,349
And, it's really been the last,
I'd say two to three years where.

661
00:31:08,724 --> 00:31:10,264
I don't really go on trucks very much.

662
00:31:10,264 --> 00:31:13,606
I don't really spend too
much time in the field.

663
00:31:13,606 --> 00:31:14,416
I do invest.

664
00:31:14,506 --> 00:31:18,659
I even invest a lot of my time in
mastermind groups that I'm a member of,

665
00:31:18,709 --> 00:31:24,189
in, personal development stuff that I
know will help my ability to lead and

666
00:31:24,189 --> 00:31:26,258
my ability to, make the company better.

667
00:31:26,390 --> 00:31:30,871
but when I first came on board,
I know and, and bought the.

668
00:31:30,941 --> 00:31:34,836
one of the first things I took
a business class that was for

669
00:31:34,836 --> 00:31:38,828
entrepreneurs that was, run by our
local small business development,

670
00:31:38,898 --> 00:31:41,028
branch of our local government.

671
00:31:41,118 --> 00:31:43,608
And they offered it for free.

672
00:31:43,698 --> 00:31:45,048
It was a grant based thing.

673
00:31:45,053 --> 00:31:46,308
And I said, heck, why not?

674
00:31:47,328 --> 00:31:47,868
I'll take it.

675
00:31:48,228 --> 00:31:50,808
And one of the biggest things that they.

676
00:31:51,543 --> 00:31:55,533
Preached in this course, and this
was, I don't know, a year or two

677
00:31:55,533 --> 00:31:58,783
after I had taken over things
was, figure out what you're good

678
00:31:58,783 --> 00:32:01,063
at and hire for what you're not.

679
00:32:01,963 --> 00:32:05,863
And so one of the first things that I
did when I bought the company is that

680
00:32:05,868 --> 00:32:09,463
I knew that keep keeping the books
straight was not a strength of mine.

681
00:32:10,153 --> 00:32:11,652
And it just was not.

682
00:32:11,832 --> 00:32:15,672
And I knew that it wasn't a strength of
my parents, and I knew that it plagued.

683
00:32:16,347 --> 00:32:16,947
In the past.

684
00:32:16,947 --> 00:32:19,497
So that was one of the first things I
did was I said, I need an accountant

685
00:32:19,497 --> 00:32:23,217
and I need a bookkeeper and it's gonna
cost me money right off the jump.

686
00:32:23,877 --> 00:32:29,637
But if I do that correctly, I
won't have to ever worry about it.

687
00:32:30,567 --> 00:32:32,167
And so that was one of
the first things I did.

688
00:32:32,167 --> 00:32:33,591
As well as like it's a smart booth.

689
00:32:33,981 --> 00:32:34,191
Yeah.

690
00:32:34,191 --> 00:32:34,491
Well,

691
00:32:34,491 --> 00:32:36,741
Bryant Gillespie: I mean, we preach
that a hundred times to everybody.

692
00:32:36,741 --> 00:32:37,191
Heres yeah.

693
00:32:37,448 --> 00:32:41,798
stop trying to do the finances yourself,
hire somebody that deals in numbers

694
00:32:41,803 --> 00:32:44,198
all day and get them to straighten you.

695
00:32:44,873 --> 00:32:45,173
Peter Kourounis: Absolutely.

696
00:32:45,173 --> 00:32:47,573
And you know, something it's not,
it's a very common, it's very com.

697
00:32:47,573 --> 00:32:51,125
It's very common to see that
first person is the bookkeeper.

698
00:32:51,125 --> 00:32:53,915
Cause when people think of business,
they think of numbers, they think

699
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,595
of profit and law statements.

700
00:32:55,595 --> 00:32:58,205
Oh my God, these financial statements,
who's gonna manage all that.

701
00:32:58,205 --> 00:33:01,709
So it's very common to see what
you've did being like one of the

702
00:33:01,709 --> 00:33:02,639
first things you've done, it.

703
00:33:02,639 --> 00:33:03,519
was one of the first things I've done.

704
00:33:04,001 --> 00:33:05,351
I could do this, get outta here.

705
00:33:05,501 --> 00:33:06,071
I could do this.

706
00:33:06,071 --> 00:33:06,161
Right.

707
00:33:06,161 --> 00:33:09,044
And I could do this, a little bit
cheaper than keeping you around

708
00:33:09,304 --> 00:33:12,073
that, that there's a lot of us.

709
00:33:12,073 --> 00:33:15,343
There's a lot of us that listen to
this podcast that have that same

710
00:33:15,343 --> 00:33:18,717
mindset that you have there, Mike, and
that's one of the cool things about

711
00:33:18,717 --> 00:33:22,167
this business is that you can get
in from many different entry points.

712
00:33:22,234 --> 00:33:25,860
you happen to be a family man,
a family owned business, right.

713
00:33:25,860 --> 00:33:27,660
And you had that door for you.

714
00:33:27,810 --> 00:33:28,950
Not a lot of us have that.

715
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:32,700
So if you were an employee that
you were a graphic designer and I

716
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:34,110
could do this better than anybody.

717
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:34,800
I could do this.

718
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:35,730
I'm gonna start my own.

719
00:33:36,405 --> 00:33:39,945
Place, and then they have to learn how
to become a business owner and they, and

720
00:33:39,945 --> 00:33:42,105
like you said, they do fail more often.

721
00:33:42,105 --> 00:33:45,136
So thank you so much for
sharing your story there.

722
00:33:45,141 --> 00:33:47,746
I'd like to kind of Bring in Scott here.

723
00:33:48,076 --> 00:33:51,426
Scott, why don't you like
introduce yourself and how you got

724
00:33:51,431 --> 00:33:53,196
involved in here in, in Hilltop

725
00:33:53,251 --> 00:33:56,549
Scott Dean: So, like we had talked
about, I went to college, I had an

726
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:58,349
economics degree and I graduated.

727
00:33:58,739 --> 00:33:59,519
I went to work for the go.

728
00:34:00,929 --> 00:34:04,379
As a business financial manager
worked for the government for about

729
00:34:04,379 --> 00:34:07,589
14 years and got really tired of it.

730
00:34:08,129 --> 00:34:14,609
And one day saw an ad for sign
shop and didn't know a thing

731
00:34:14,609 --> 00:34:16,259
about signs or installing signs.

732
00:34:16,264 --> 00:34:20,399
So I went to work for blanket as
an installer and that's, that was

733
00:34:20,399 --> 00:34:22,319
seven, seven, almost eight years ago.

734
00:34:22,589 --> 00:34:27,802
So we've grown together from a three
person shop to a 14, 15 person shop.

735
00:34:27,936 --> 00:34:31,386
my struggle with Mike is to keep him off
the floor, keep him out of the books.

736
00:34:33,186 --> 00:34:36,016
and that's why, when he was telling that
story, I was like, that's absolutely.

737
00:34:36,601 --> 00:34:36,781
wait a

738
00:34:36,781 --> 00:34:37,081
Peter Kourounis: second.

739
00:34:37,081 --> 00:34:37,531
Hold on.

740
00:34:38,191 --> 00:34:39,511
hold on a second here, Scott.

741
00:34:39,511 --> 00:34:40,051
Hold on.

742
00:34:40,081 --> 00:34:42,781
I got two questions for
you before you go on.

743
00:34:42,796 --> 00:34:45,631
the first is you said that you
were in finance for the government

744
00:34:45,811 --> 00:34:46,981
business, financial manager.

745
00:34:46,981 --> 00:34:47,161
Yeah.

746
00:34:47,191 --> 00:34:48,251
Business financial manager.

747
00:34:48,317 --> 00:34:49,727
are you doing the books
for the business now?

748
00:34:49,732 --> 00:34:51,707
Are you that bookkeeper
that he was talking about?

749
00:34:51,827 --> 00:34:52,157
No

750
00:34:52,157 --> 00:34:52,749
Scott Dean: way, no way.

751
00:34:53,429 --> 00:34:53,752
Peter Kourounis: Nope.

752
00:34:53,767 --> 00:34:54,007
no.

753
00:34:54,137 --> 00:34:55,397
So you don't touch the books?

754
00:34:55,487 --> 00:34:55,577
I

755
00:34:55,577 --> 00:34:59,117
Scott Dean: don't, well, I, the only way
I touched the books is said, Mike, we

756
00:34:59,117 --> 00:35:00,497
need some profit and loss statements.

757
00:35:00,497 --> 00:35:01,367
Can we get those?

758
00:35:01,386 --> 00:35:05,969
can we start being  so we can make
decisions based on numbers and not just

759
00:35:05,969 --> 00:35:07,788
what we feel during the morning, you know?

760
00:35:08,341 --> 00:35:11,517
Peter Kourounis: So your background,
your background has a lot of really.

761
00:35:12,932 --> 00:35:15,722
Components when it works with the
government, but you had no sign, shop,

762
00:35:15,842 --> 00:35:17,762
installation experience at all, huh?

763
00:35:18,032 --> 00:35:18,482
Scott Dean: None at all.

764
00:35:18,482 --> 00:35:19,022
Peter Kourounis: So what's that?

765
00:35:19,022 --> 00:35:22,169
What was that like when you met
Mike and Mike, I guess this is

766
00:35:22,174 --> 00:35:25,799
a question for Mike, like Mike
specifically, what made you hire Scott?

767
00:35:27,869 --> 00:35:28,139
go ahead.

768
00:35:28,139 --> 00:35:28,979
Tell him the story, Mike

769
00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:31,899
. 
Mike Davis: So we,

770
00:35:32,159 --> 00:35:34,379
Peter Kourounis: why would you
hire somebody with no experience

771
00:35:34,409 --> 00:35:37,529
that came from a finance
background to install your signs?

772
00:35:38,399 --> 00:35:39,943
Mike Davis: Oh, we hire
people with no experience.

773
00:35:39,976 --> 00:35:40,331
all the.

774
00:35:41,861 --> 00:35:46,063
all the time, because in, in our
region, we really don't have a ton

775
00:35:46,063 --> 00:35:49,643
of applicants that are like, oh yeah,
I used to work for so and so signs.

776
00:35:49,715 --> 00:35:52,385
there is not that pool of applicants.

777
00:35:52,565 --> 00:35:57,305
So especially back then, when I hired
Scott, what I was looking for was

778
00:35:57,305 --> 00:36:03,185
somebody who was physically able,
somebody who had a good can-do attitude.

779
00:36:03,575 --> 00:36:08,990
And I was honest, I was like, Some
days really suck in this industry.

780
00:36:09,020 --> 00:36:10,940
Like we work in the elements.

781
00:36:10,940 --> 00:36:12,260
Like we work at Heights.

782
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,020
Like we work in the mud, we work
in the snow, we work in the rain.

783
00:36:15,020 --> 00:36:16,040
It's hot, it's cold.

784
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,290
Like sometimes stuff doesn't go together.

785
00:36:18,290 --> 00:36:20,810
Like it's supposed to
sometimes stuff breaks.

786
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,120
Like it's, that's just how it is.

787
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,930
The most important thing is that.

788
00:36:27,575 --> 00:36:32,165
we keep a positive attitude and
I will say Scott and I have been

789
00:36:32,165 --> 00:36:34,955
on some really rough job sites.

790
00:36:35,375 --> 00:36:39,785
And there has only been a handful
that have completely kicked our butts.

791
00:36:39,785 --> 00:36:43,715
And we're just like, Look, I really
hate this job as much as you do, but

792
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:45,245
we can't go home until it's done.

793
00:36:45,250 --> 00:36:50,442
So we either just freaking get it together
and get it done or else, but, when I

794
00:36:50,447 --> 00:36:52,092
hired Scott, he had a good attitude.

795
00:36:52,152 --> 00:36:54,852
He was willing to come on
and dig in, do the job.

796
00:36:54,852 --> 00:36:58,812
And within the first week, I
mean, there was nothing that I

797
00:36:58,962 --> 00:37:01,122
proposed to have him go to do that.

798
00:37:01,122 --> 00:37:01,932
He wasn't like.

799
00:37:02,697 --> 00:37:02,847
Yeah.

800
00:37:02,847 --> 00:37:04,377
I've never done that before,
but I'll figure it out.

801
00:37:05,037 --> 00:37:12,717
And  that attitude is way more
valuable than somebody coming on

802
00:37:12,717 --> 00:37:15,177
board and saying, yeah, I've been
hanging signs for three years.

803
00:37:15,927 --> 00:37:16,347
Yeah, I would.

804
00:37:16,416 --> 00:37:17,496
I would rather 10 more.

805
00:37:17,496 --> 00:37:20,196
SCOs honestly, I would rather 10 more.

806
00:37:20,196 --> 00:37:20,676
SCOs that?

807
00:37:20,676 --> 00:37:22,236
Come on with no sign experience.

808
00:37:22,236 --> 00:37:24,396
Don't even know what a channel
letter or a push through letter is.

809
00:37:24,816 --> 00:37:25,866
That's completely.

810
00:37:26,856 --> 00:37:28,146
because I can teach you that stuff.

811
00:37:28,416 --> 00:37:33,756
What I can't teach you is a positive
mental attitude and the grit and

812
00:37:33,756 --> 00:37:39,426
the willingness to get through a
hard job and to problem solve those

813
00:37:39,426 --> 00:37:42,756
things are very tough to find I can

814
00:37:42,756 --> 00:37:43,446
Scott Dean: teach rest.

815
00:37:43,836 --> 00:37:46,663
And what made me stay
was, I'm not gonna lie.

816
00:37:46,663 --> 00:37:49,100
I was making great money with
the government, but what made me

817
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:50,900
stay was that's the macro level.

818
00:37:50,913 --> 00:37:51,377
that's.

819
00:37:51,947 --> 00:37:53,477
Humongous dollars.

820
00:37:53,567 --> 00:37:58,107
And then to come to a small business
and see how a young man, took

821
00:37:58,107 --> 00:37:59,607
a chance and bought a business.

822
00:37:59,612 --> 00:38:04,011
And I said, I gotta, I would love to help
this guy grow this business, and he's

823
00:38:04,011 --> 00:38:09,351
always given me the opportunity to put
my 2 cents in and kind of steer him where

824
00:38:09,561 --> 00:38:15,051
my experience, because there's 20, 22
year difference between Mike and my age.

825
00:38:15,051 --> 00:38:18,111
So I have a lot of lifelong experience.

826
00:38:18,471 --> 00:38:20,421
But he has a lot of the
small business experience.

827
00:38:20,426 --> 00:38:24,761
And I think those two meshed well
together and he, I enjoyed it.

828
00:38:24,821 --> 00:38:25,871
I liked being outside.

829
00:38:25,901 --> 00:38:26,831
I like to challenge.

830
00:38:26,861 --> 00:38:28,141
I know how to use YouTube.

831
00:38:28,141 --> 00:38:31,321
I can figure out how to hang
channel letters and wire signs.

832
00:38:31,321 --> 00:38:32,114
And it was good.

833
00:38:32,144 --> 00:38:34,724
Sign business is one, its
best days is really fun and

834
00:38:34,754 --> 00:38:35,984
a lot of cool things happen.

835
00:38:38,054 --> 00:38:38,774
Bryant Gillespie: on its worst days.

836
00:38:38,774 --> 00:38:41,954
That's why we, it is hot
and sweaty, hot and nasty.

837
00:38:44,624 --> 00:38:44,864
no.

838
00:38:44,924 --> 00:38:45,227
Yeah.

839
00:38:45,249 --> 00:38:47,559
I think one of the things that
you said, Mike is like the

840
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:49,209
positive attitude is huge.

841
00:38:49,236 --> 00:38:52,921
we talk a lot in some of our, in
our mastermind group and our little

842
00:38:52,921 --> 00:38:56,701
Facebook community that we've got
set up about how hard it is to hire.

843
00:38:57,091 --> 00:39:00,301
And lots of people want to
hire somebody with experience.

844
00:39:01,846 --> 00:39:04,006
Depending on your market, like
you're just not gonna find it.

845
00:39:04,186 --> 00:39:07,336
So a hundred percent agree
with what you said there.

846
00:39:07,336 --> 00:39:09,256
And that's a really important part.

847
00:39:09,466 --> 00:39:11,716
Something I wanna drive home
for all the listeners out there.

848
00:39:12,406 --> 00:39:20,642
So let's, kinda steer this back towards
the pending shop apocalypse or recession

849
00:39:20,642 --> 00:39:23,012
Peter and I were talking about the.

850
00:39:23,702 --> 00:39:25,622
The great shutdown during COVID.

851
00:39:25,684 --> 00:39:28,926
we were struggling to come up with what
word we were gonna use for it, whether it

852
00:39:28,926 --> 00:39:31,175
was a recession or a shutdown or whatever.

853
00:39:31,175 --> 00:39:35,900
You guys have a very unique
story there during the recession.

854
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:37,818
Why don't you guys, share
that with the listeners?

855
00:39:38,538 --> 00:39:38,808
Mike Davis: Right.

856
00:39:38,808 --> 00:39:41,851
So I'll start and then
I'll let Scott kinda.

857
00:39:42,676 --> 00:39:43,726
Kind of come in as well.

858
00:39:43,794 --> 00:39:49,418
we all, I guess it was probably
late February, early March, 2020, we

859
00:39:49,423 --> 00:39:51,038
started hearing whispers about stuff.

860
00:39:51,038 --> 00:39:54,723
I can remember, we were on a job
right down the street and it was a

861
00:39:54,723 --> 00:39:59,253
day or two be before lockdown and we
were working on a wallpaper mural.

862
00:39:59,253 --> 00:40:00,513
It was fighting us hard.

863
00:40:00,513 --> 00:40:02,613
We're all in a really
tight confined space.

864
00:40:02,641 --> 00:40:05,859
lots of hands, everybody
in really close proximity.

865
00:40:07,554 --> 00:40:09,654
and then I feel like it was that evening.

866
00:40:09,714 --> 00:40:13,884
All these reports came out, started
talking about lockdown within 48

867
00:40:13,884 --> 00:40:15,594
hours, all this kind of stuff.

868
00:40:15,594 --> 00:40:19,914
And we're like, well, dang, we were
all in each other's face today, man.

869
00:40:20,064 --> 00:40:23,774
Well, hopefully nobody's sick cuz
we all got it if that's the case.

870
00:40:23,843 --> 00:40:27,175
and then I think it was probably
like I said, about 48 hours

871
00:40:27,175 --> 00:40:30,251
later that, Quarantine came down.

872
00:40:30,551 --> 00:40:34,211
Everybody said it was gonna be two
weeks, all this, that, and the other.

873
00:40:34,301 --> 00:40:36,221
And I'm not gonna lie.

874
00:40:36,881 --> 00:40:38,981
I went into full on panic mode.

875
00:40:39,371 --> 00:40:42,282
I mean, I can remember, Scott and
I had a conversation about him.

876
00:40:42,282 --> 00:40:43,602
We were like, we just gotta wait.

877
00:40:43,872 --> 00:40:46,452
We just gotta wait and see what happens.

878
00:40:46,505 --> 00:40:49,235
we try to keep pushing on
as best we possibly can.

879
00:40:49,265 --> 00:40:51,725
And we're like, let's just see
what the next couple days brings.

880
00:40:52,085 --> 00:40:53,136
And I can remember going.

881
00:40:54,136 --> 00:41:00,076
And making dinner for my
family and literally inside,

882
00:41:00,196 --> 00:41:02,771
I was freaking the F out.

883
00:41:02,771 --> 00:41:03,476
I went for a walk.

884
00:41:04,166 --> 00:41:08,756
I called my parents and I'm just like,
and it was, it was pouring down rain.

885
00:41:08,846 --> 00:41:11,006
And I walked for probably two miles.

886
00:41:11,546 --> 00:41:14,516
I talked to them on the phone and
I'm just like, I literally don't

887
00:41:14,516 --> 00:41:15,836
know what the heck I'm gonna do.

888
00:41:17,336 --> 00:41:19,466
I think it was that day as well.

889
00:41:19,495 --> 00:41:20,785
we had a big contract.

890
00:41:20,785 --> 00:41:25,375
We had just been awarded, it was like a
hundred and hundred 20, $130,000 museum.

891
00:41:25,375 --> 00:41:26,405
Biggest one we've ever done.

892
00:41:26,419 --> 00:41:28,759
it was gonna be the biggest
contract we had ever done.

893
00:41:28,764 --> 00:41:32,069
And it was like the perfect job.

894
00:41:33,424 --> 00:41:35,194
For a sign and graphics company.

895
00:41:35,464 --> 00:41:37,774
Like it was, it had
creative elements in it.

896
00:41:37,774 --> 00:41:40,024
We were gonna be able to
fabricate some cool stuff.

897
00:41:40,035 --> 00:41:42,777
there were digital signage
elements, wallpaper, murals pretty

898
00:41:42,777 --> 00:41:44,457
much gets those juices flowing.

899
00:41:44,487 --> 00:41:45,879
everything we offer.

900
00:41:46,449 --> 00:41:48,459
We were gonna be able
to use on this project.

901
00:41:48,459 --> 00:41:52,269
And we were gonna have a little bit of
creative control and engineering control

902
00:41:52,269 --> 00:41:54,279
for some of these exhibits as well.

903
00:41:54,279 --> 00:41:56,019
So we were super jazzed up about it.

904
00:41:56,319 --> 00:42:00,219
Well, that had just gotten canceled that
afternoon and they had no idea when.

905
00:42:00,654 --> 00:42:03,474
It was gonna come back if
it was gonna come back.

906
00:42:03,534 --> 00:42:08,334
So I was freaking out, I got
off that call with my parents.

907
00:42:08,339 --> 00:42:09,474
I went back home.

908
00:42:10,104 --> 00:42:13,104
Didn't sleep much, got
to the shop the next day.

909
00:42:13,374 --> 00:42:15,264
And I pretty much leveled with Scott.

910
00:42:15,264 --> 00:42:17,694
I was like, dude, I am freaking out.

911
00:42:17,904 --> 00:42:19,134
I don't even know what to do.

912
00:42:19,494 --> 00:42:22,774
A lot of my employees were like,
I got elderly parents, I got

913
00:42:22,774 --> 00:42:24,825
this, my wife's pregnant, yada.

914
00:42:24,825 --> 00:42:27,825
And I had employees literally
say, I'm gonna stay.

915
00:42:28,995 --> 00:42:32,625
So I had, and then we had a
couple other clients that canceled

916
00:42:32,625 --> 00:42:34,815
work that next day as well.

917
00:42:35,175 --> 00:42:38,745
It was within a couple days we had almost
like 200 grand worth of work canceled,

918
00:42:39,405 --> 00:42:41,745
and employees dropping like flies.

919
00:42:42,045 --> 00:42:46,675
So I went to Scott,
freaking the F out and,

920
00:42:48,375 --> 00:42:50,325
Peter Kourounis: and still
your installer at this

921
00:42:50,325 --> 00:42:50,635
Mike Davis: time.

922
00:42:50,635 --> 00:42:51,803
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

923
00:42:51,803 --> 00:42:52,994
He is essentially.

924
00:42:53,064 --> 00:42:55,584
my ops manager, which is
the role he is still in.

925
00:42:55,584 --> 00:42:55,614
Okay.

926
00:42:55,614 --> 00:42:58,074
So he was running the show at that point.

927
00:42:58,141 --> 00:43:00,043
but I went to him and I was
like, dude, I'm freaking out.

928
00:43:00,883 --> 00:43:03,283
I don't even know what the heck
we should do with the amount

929
00:43:03,288 --> 00:43:04,483
of work that just got canceled.

930
00:43:04,483 --> 00:43:11,353
And the fact that we got no employees
and Scott, you can come in and tell them

931
00:43:11,413 --> 00:43:13,333
exactly what you told me and what we did.

932
00:43:13,903 --> 00:43:14,353
So

933
00:43:14,413 --> 00:43:18,835
Scott Dean: I told Mike and I didn't
had no, no experience running anything.

934
00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:24,070
Even figuring out how we were gonna keep
everybody employed the most part, keep

935
00:43:24,070 --> 00:43:26,650
Mike employed because it's his business.

936
00:43:27,070 --> 00:43:30,790
So we sat here in my office
and we have whiteboards.

937
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:31,840
We whiteboard everything.

938
00:43:32,770 --> 00:43:35,560
We literally went to the whiteboard
and I said, this is all we can do.

939
00:43:35,830 --> 00:43:40,600
We can do seven day chunks and figure
out how we're gonna survive for seven.

940
00:43:41,350 --> 00:43:45,670
We wrote seven, seven days and
we wrote, we need to do this.

941
00:43:45,790 --> 00:43:47,290
Payroll is coming here.

942
00:43:47,290 --> 00:43:49,270
We need at least this much
amount of money in the bank.

943
00:43:49,630 --> 00:43:51,880
We have these jobs we
can do from the shop.

944
00:43:52,270 --> 00:43:59,230
We have these employees that
did, we did 7 14, 21, 30, 45 60.

945
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,372
and we just kept on doing that
every week to pass by we'd survive.

946
00:44:04,372 --> 00:44:08,092
Another week, it, we have a
saying in the shop we're here now.

947
00:44:08,182 --> 00:44:10,482
So it doesn't do us any good to freak out.

948
00:44:10,482 --> 00:44:11,632
We might as well figure it out.

949
00:44:11,632 --> 00:44:15,840
and me and Mike, and it's a running
joke between us, but we've always

950
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:21,415
said, we're gonna run this shop until
it implodes or we just blow up and be

951
00:44:21,895 --> 00:44:26,035
super successful or it's in the ground,
but we're going down with the ship

952
00:44:26,125 --> 00:44:27,945
and so basically, that was our mantra.

953
00:44:28,530 --> 00:44:31,650
It doesn't matter if we're going to
shut down, we're gonna shut down, but

954
00:44:31,650 --> 00:44:32,910
we might as well go down swinging.

955
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:36,991
And we might as well try to keep everybody
who wants to stay employed, employed.

956
00:44:37,060 --> 00:44:40,310
and then things started to
break our way for a few months.

957
00:44:40,336 --> 00:44:43,901
the governor of Maryland said, Hey,
sign shops are essential employees.

958
00:44:43,931 --> 00:44:44,861
We got letters.

959
00:44:44,921 --> 00:44:46,301
We could still do jobs.

960
00:44:46,961 --> 00:44:50,171
We had a core group of people that
said I wanna work and make money.

961
00:44:50,741 --> 00:44:50,891
And.

962
00:44:51,788 --> 00:44:54,698
we went to our employees and
said, whoever wants to stay home.

963
00:44:54,698 --> 00:44:59,498
You voluntarily, we're gonna lay you off
and you can go do what you need to do

964
00:44:59,678 --> 00:45:01,418
until you feel safe and you can come back.

965
00:45:02,318 --> 00:45:02,498
Great.

966
00:45:02,798 --> 00:45:06,489
And through that, it just, we just kept
chunking along week after week after

967
00:45:06,494 --> 00:45:11,379
week until we had another catastrophe
and Mike can pick it up there.

968
00:45:11,739 --> 00:45:13,781
So we thought we were surviving and then

969
00:45:15,101 --> 00:45:16,685
Mike Davis: well, and I will touch on too.

970
00:45:16,690 --> 00:45:16,895
We.

971
00:45:17,855 --> 00:45:19,175
We were very fortunate.

972
00:45:19,175 --> 00:45:22,066
And I think everybody was kind of
fortunate that, and it's not often

973
00:45:22,066 --> 00:45:28,696
that I applaud government programs,
but I will say the paycheck protection

974
00:45:28,696 --> 00:45:32,566
program saved our, but I mean, we.

975
00:45:33,106 --> 00:45:33,976
Applied for that.

976
00:45:34,036 --> 00:45:36,256
And that literally bought us.

977
00:45:36,616 --> 00:45:38,926
It added a couple weeks
to that crisis plan.

978
00:45:39,136 --> 00:45:43,186
It bought us a couple weeks of being able
to move things around and keep people on

979
00:45:43,186 --> 00:45:49,276
payroll and not have to lay them off and
keep 'em working and be able to reach

980
00:45:49,281 --> 00:45:53,846
out to other customers and market it a
little bit different and learn about you.

981
00:45:55,246 --> 00:46:00,405
About PPE, learn about sneeze guards and
learn about, all these other alternative

982
00:46:00,405 --> 00:46:05,175
things that we could do, all these
other decals and signs and mobile order

983
00:46:05,180 --> 00:46:10,335
pickup stuff, and just all these other
things that helped to pay the bills.

984
00:46:10,665 --> 00:46:14,671
And we shit, we, we
pivoted really fast and.

985
00:46:15,461 --> 00:46:18,931
, but I will say that paycheck
protection program bought us time.

986
00:46:19,051 --> 00:46:22,711
It bought us a couple weeks to adjust.

987
00:46:22,921 --> 00:46:28,411
And as soon as we figured out, Hey,
we can make sneeze guards, Hey, we can

988
00:46:28,411 --> 00:46:33,651
make, caution decals and mobile order
pickup signs and all these other things.

989
00:46:33,651 --> 00:46:37,671
And we reached out to all of our customers
and offered all these different things

990
00:46:37,671 --> 00:46:39,381
and all these different products to them.

991
00:46:39,831 --> 00:46:42,261
And we even.

992
00:46:43,701 --> 00:46:46,071
Like we offered quicker turnaround times.

993
00:46:46,461 --> 00:46:50,121
We said, look, we understand you guys need
this stuff quick, fast, and in a hurry.

994
00:46:50,121 --> 00:46:53,511
So if you place an order, we guarantee
you will have it in 24 hours.

995
00:46:54,861 --> 00:47:00,751
And so with all that stuff put together,
it helped to dig us out a little bit.

996
00:47:00,777 --> 00:47:02,492
and what Scott was touching on.

997
00:47:03,697 --> 00:47:06,097
We started humming along pretty good.

998
00:47:06,118 --> 00:47:08,379
we had a couple big contracts.

999
00:47:08,383 --> 00:47:11,974
we had a couple, of our customers
that were also pivoting at

1000
00:47:11,979 --> 00:47:13,354
the exact same point we were.

1001
00:47:13,359 --> 00:47:18,214
So they were doing a lot of mobile
order structures and it wasn't sign

1002
00:47:18,214 --> 00:47:21,274
related stuff necessarily, but they
were architectural structures that we.

1003
00:47:22,009 --> 00:47:26,269
Picking transporting and installing
all up and down the east coast.

1004
00:47:26,359 --> 00:47:32,081
So we had to travel to get paid,
but we survived, throughout that

1005
00:47:32,081 --> 00:47:34,871
stuff, starting to pick up and
up, starting to get a groove.

1006
00:47:34,958 --> 00:47:43,791
we had a fire and that, I literally
woke up and it was almost the end

1007
00:47:43,791 --> 00:47:47,361
of may, I guess it was May 20th,
May 22nd, somewhere in there.

1008
00:47:47,445 --> 00:47:52,065
and I woke up, it was probably two
30 in the morning to Scott beating

1009
00:47:52,065 --> 00:47:53,205
the crap outta my front door.

1010
00:47:54,015 --> 00:47:58,035
cause like any other person, two
30 in the morning, I am passed out.

1011
00:47:58,035 --> 00:47:59,235
Phone is on silent.

1012
00:47:59,355 --> 00:48:03,615
I am zonked out and he's beating
the crap outta my front door.

1013
00:48:03,855 --> 00:48:07,575
I look out the front door, unlock
my gun, safe, literally pulling

1014
00:48:07,575 --> 00:48:09,945
out a gun cuz somebody's beating
the crap outta my front door.

1015
00:48:10,425 --> 00:48:14,031
And finally realized that Tim, I
opened the door and he's dude, I've

1016
00:48:14,031 --> 00:48:15,171
been trying to call you for half an.

1017
00:48:15,831 --> 00:48:16,821
The shop caught on fire.

1018
00:48:17,931 --> 00:48:18,561
Oh my gosh.

1019
00:48:18,566 --> 00:48:19,201
So and so.

1020
00:48:20,166 --> 00:48:21,636
Bryant Gillespie: Things
are humming along.

1021
00:48:21,666 --> 00:48:23,796
You guys are getting some breathing room.

1022
00:48:23,796 --> 00:48:24,996
You got that margin.

1023
00:48:24,996 --> 00:48:26,496
Like the PPP helped you.

1024
00:48:26,676 --> 00:48:26,856
Yep.

1025
00:48:26,886 --> 00:48:27,756
Stay afloat.

1026
00:48:27,756 --> 00:48:30,906
And then you're just like
two 30 in the morning.

1027
00:48:30,911 --> 00:48:33,066
You got Scott's face staring at you.

1028
00:48:34,116 --> 00:48:35,016
There's been a fire.

1029
00:48:35,466 --> 00:48:35,706
Yep.

1030
00:48:35,706 --> 00:48:35,826
Oh

1031
00:48:35,826 --> 00:48:36,156
Mike Davis: my gosh.

1032
00:48:36,156 --> 00:48:41,299
So I run and get dressed, hop in
the truck and just haul as fast as

1033
00:48:41,299 --> 00:48:44,480
I can to the shop, which is about,
20 minutes away from my house.

1034
00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:45,590
And.

1035
00:48:46,205 --> 00:48:46,925
I get there.

1036
00:48:47,165 --> 00:48:50,615
And by the time I got there,
fire department was gone.

1037
00:48:51,005 --> 00:48:51,905
Everything was out.

1038
00:48:52,475 --> 00:48:58,152
But, and I'm very thankful that
the fire actually, in terms of fire

1039
00:48:58,157 --> 00:49:01,582
damage from flame was not that bad.

1040
00:49:01,608 --> 00:49:05,426
they, the fire department came in,
they sliced open one of my bay doors

1041
00:49:05,426 --> 00:49:07,927
that they didn't have to, they,
they caused a little bit of damage.

1042
00:49:07,927 --> 00:49:10,387
They probably didn't need
to, but they got everything.

1043
00:49:11,827 --> 00:49:16,612
everything was all good there, but, know,
when I initially got there, everything was

1044
00:49:16,612 --> 00:49:19,552
black, everything was soy in my, one bay.

1045
00:49:19,642 --> 00:49:23,981
I walked to the bay next door, cuz
we have adjoining spaces, and looked

1046
00:49:23,981 --> 00:49:26,621
like everything was covered and
just kind of a light layer of soot.

1047
00:49:26,626 --> 00:49:29,771
And I'm like, okay, everything's
kind of dirty, but we should

1048
00:49:29,771 --> 00:49:30,641
be able to clean this up.

1049
00:49:30,641 --> 00:49:30,941
Right.

1050
00:49:30,941 --> 00:49:34,961
Like I immediately went
into let's clean this mess.

1051
00:49:36,956 --> 00:49:41,890
. Yeah, that's when, that's when, other
people started showing up cuz this was

1052
00:49:41,890 --> 00:49:44,110
still very early in, in the end morning.

1053
00:49:44,115 --> 00:49:47,110
So by the time the sun started
coming up, other people started

1054
00:49:47,115 --> 00:49:49,060
showing up like the fire marshal.

1055
00:49:49,765 --> 00:49:56,185
Like insurance adjusters, like
mold remediation and cleanup guys.

1056
00:49:56,575 --> 00:49:59,275
Other people started showing up
cuz they heard about what happened.

1057
00:49:59,354 --> 00:49:59,864
like hounds.

1058
00:49:59,869 --> 00:50:00,224
Yes.

1059
00:50:00,424 --> 00:50:03,146
And man, you would, it was ridiculous.

1060
00:50:03,446 --> 00:50:05,546
It would like, like moths to a flame.

1061
00:50:05,546 --> 00:50:07,466
They all came out of the woodwork.

1062
00:50:07,590 --> 00:50:08,010
and.

1063
00:50:09,065 --> 00:50:12,275
it was explained to me, cuz we had
already been there a couple hours and

1064
00:50:12,275 --> 00:50:15,785
we had already started to clean stuff up
cuz I was like, we got work to do, man.

1065
00:50:15,995 --> 00:50:17,765
Like we're in the middle of a pandemic.

1066
00:50:17,765 --> 00:50:19,985
Like I got orders, we got stuff to do.

1067
00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:22,415
Like I can't be, we gotta roll.

1068
00:50:22,805 --> 00:50:26,405
I sent some of my people who came into
out to get pump sprayers so we could

1069
00:50:26,405 --> 00:50:28,595
clean stuff and we started rocking.

1070
00:50:29,405 --> 00:50:31,505
Well then it was quickly
explained to me that.

1071
00:50:31,925 --> 00:50:32,795
Yeah, no.

1072
00:50:32,795 --> 00:50:39,545
Sot is extremely, extremely caustic and
corrosive to everything that it touches.

1073
00:50:40,565 --> 00:50:48,305
So that means all of my tools,
my printer, my cutter, my CNC,

1074
00:50:48,785 --> 00:50:51,635
anything that was in that space.

1075
00:50:52,085 --> 00:50:56,705
And the air touched was
immediately starting to rust.

1076
00:50:58,175 --> 00:51:00,665
And it's pretty humid down
here, Southern Maryland.

1077
00:51:00,695 --> 00:51:03,935
we're surrounded on water by
water on pretty much all sides.

1078
00:51:04,355 --> 00:51:05,825
So it's always humid here.

1079
00:51:06,245 --> 00:51:09,125
Well, I picked up a saws all blade.

1080
00:51:09,725 --> 00:51:11,525
It was probably nine or
10 o'clock in the morning.

1081
00:51:11,525 --> 00:51:14,615
I picked up a saws all blade that
it was brand new outta the package.

1082
00:51:14,620 --> 00:51:16,985
We used it to cut one piece
of lumber the day before.

1083
00:51:17,075 --> 00:51:17,915
Cause I was moving stuff.

1084
00:51:18,905 --> 00:51:22,625
and it already had a thick enough
coat of rust on it that I could run

1085
00:51:22,625 --> 00:51:24,515
my hand across it and it was green.

1086
00:51:25,085 --> 00:51:25,805
Bryant Gillespie: Oh my gosh.

1087
00:51:26,255 --> 00:51:30,395
Mike Davis: And I was like, and one of
the remediation guys came up to me and

1088
00:51:30,395 --> 00:51:32,885
he was explaining all these things to me.

1089
00:51:32,890 --> 00:51:34,618
And he's that's just
the tip of the iceberg.

1090
00:51:35,218 --> 00:51:38,938
He said, imagine that in every
single piece of equipment you own

1091
00:51:39,148 --> 00:51:43,348
and every single tool that's in this
shop and all of your paper products,

1092
00:51:43,408 --> 00:51:47,260
everything he's everything you have
in this shop has been affected by.

1093
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:49,030
so, oh

1094
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:49,350
Bryant Gillespie: man.

1095
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:53,560
So every, like it there's
nothing that you could salvage.

1096
00:51:54,310 --> 00:51:57,310
Mike Davis: So luckily we were
able to salvage some stuff.

1097
00:51:57,447 --> 00:52:02,727
we had a electronics cleaning
company that came in and were able

1098
00:52:02,727 --> 00:52:04,677
to clean a lot of our electronics.

1099
00:52:04,707 --> 00:52:09,741
They actually used, CO2 that were,
was hooked up to special guns and they

1100
00:52:09,746 --> 00:52:16,115
actually blast the, Off of all the
sensitive electronics, it's a really

1101
00:52:16,115 --> 00:52:20,022
wild process to watch, but they were
able to clean a lot of our tools and our

1102
00:52:20,232 --> 00:52:24,462
electronics and stuff, but there was an
overwhelming amount of stuff that had to

1103
00:52:24,462 --> 00:52:25,912
just literally be thrown in the dumpster.

1104
00:52:25,983 --> 00:52:26,663
oh man.

1105
00:52:27,293 --> 00:52:34,024
So we, we had to relocate for about three
months, and there is nothing available.

1106
00:52:34,894 --> 00:52:39,124
Absolutely nothing to
rent, nothing to go into.

1107
00:52:39,220 --> 00:52:42,160
we actually lucked out right
down the street from our shop.

1108
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,608
We found a warehouse that, another
company was occupying and it

1109
00:52:46,608 --> 00:52:48,108
was just extra storage space.

1110
00:52:48,168 --> 00:52:51,378
Well, they were able to clean some stuff
out and make a temporary home for us.

1111
00:52:51,413 --> 00:52:54,102
very appreciative of those guys.

1112
00:52:54,132 --> 00:52:57,642
we would've been way
worse off if they hadn't.

1113
00:52:59,037 --> 00:53:00,147
To rent to us like that.

1114
00:53:00,241 --> 00:53:04,223
one downfall to that space, our industry,
you have to have an internet connection.

1115
00:53:04,223 --> 00:53:04,488
Right.

1116
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:06,089
email artwork.

1117
00:53:06,089 --> 00:53:06,299
Sure.

1118
00:53:06,299 --> 00:53:08,159
Files, customer supplied stuff.

1119
00:53:08,909 --> 00:53:09,059
Yeah.

1120
00:53:09,064 --> 00:53:10,379
We had no internet for three minutes.

1121
00:53:11,619 --> 00:53:12,249
Scott Dean: my gosh.

1122
00:53:13,859 --> 00:53:16,815
Bryant Gillespie: So you guys are
running like off of, phone 3g,

1123
00:53:16,915 --> 00:53:17,665
Scott Dean: hot off our

1124
00:53:17,665 --> 00:53:17,935
Mike Davis: phone.

1125
00:53:18,535 --> 00:53:19,105
Oh my gosh.

1126
00:53:19,135 --> 00:53:24,375
It was anytime we needed to download
big files or stuff, we were running.

1127
00:53:24,955 --> 00:53:27,955
Up the street, back to the shop
where my internet was still running.

1128
00:53:27,985 --> 00:53:31,945
So we were running back to the
shop that was being rebuilt because

1129
00:53:31,945 --> 00:53:35,635
everything had to be emptied out, put
in storage or cleaned or thrown away

1130
00:53:35,875 --> 00:53:37,375
while they rebuilt the whole shop.

1131
00:53:37,975 --> 00:53:41,748
And, so we would run back, download
files and then run back to our temporary

1132
00:53:41,748 --> 00:53:43,998
offices to actually work on everything.

1133
00:53:45,408 --> 00:53:46,118
So it, so

1134
00:53:46,118 --> 00:53:48,127
Bryant Gillespie: how did, how
did you guys survive this man?

1135
00:53:48,127 --> 00:53:49,506
Scott Dean: it, it was the same.

1136
00:53:49,506 --> 00:53:53,796
We had just had lessons learned from
the COVID literally sat on another

1137
00:53:53,796 --> 00:53:58,416
whiteboard, say here's the first things we
gotta do in seven days, we need a space.

1138
00:53:58,776 --> 00:54:02,744
We need to make sure, insurance, we need
all these meetings we had to, instead

1139
00:54:02,744 --> 00:54:05,206
of having the carpet bagger and the VUL.

1140
00:54:05,536 --> 00:54:07,076
What do we really need to do?

1141
00:54:07,076 --> 00:54:12,605
what is, and we could write a book on
what you need to do with your sign shop,

1142
00:54:12,695 --> 00:54:17,156
to prevent from going through what we
had to do is, proper inventory and you

1143
00:54:17,156 --> 00:54:21,586
should, yeah, we should you need to take
pictures of everything in your shop,

1144
00:54:21,736 --> 00:54:25,216
down to dry erase markers and have it.

1145
00:54:25,276 --> 00:54:29,326
This is my inventory, cuz we were
guessing at stuff we were guessing

1146
00:54:29,326 --> 00:54:30,887
at what our inventory was, how.

1147
00:54:31,982 --> 00:54:35,845
how many envelopes or how many that's,
how, what detail they wanted, Oh my gosh.

1148
00:54:36,595 --> 00:54:41,405
And all that and make sure your books
are straight because your insurance

1149
00:54:41,410 --> 00:54:45,681
is counting on your prior year and to
give you money for when you were down.

1150
00:54:46,191 --> 00:54:46,371
Yep.

1151
00:54:46,445 --> 00:54:50,040
and what they didn't, what you don't
know is you're probably better off

1152
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,880
staying down than trying to stay in.

1153
00:54:52,897 --> 00:54:54,107
for the short term?

1154
00:54:54,587 --> 00:54:55,157
Mike Davis: Absolutely.

1155
00:54:55,427 --> 00:54:56,027
Absolutely.

1156
00:54:56,237 --> 00:55:01,738
And as, as contrary to being
an entrepreneur, as that is

1157
00:55:02,128 --> 00:55:05,248
because for me, it was like,
no, we need to be back up now.

1158
00:55:05,398 --> 00:55:06,568
Like any downtime.

1159
00:55:07,273 --> 00:55:08,313
Is unacceptable.

1160
00:55:08,973 --> 00:55:12,783
And what I learned is no we're
gonna be down for a while.

1161
00:55:12,843 --> 00:55:17,553
And what, like Scott said, what we really
learned was we probably should have

1162
00:55:17,553 --> 00:55:22,413
just taken a step back and said, okay,
we're gonna need to be down completely

1163
00:55:22,413 --> 00:55:27,093
hard down 30 days a week, two weeks, 30
days, whatever that, that number would've

1164
00:55:27,098 --> 00:55:30,573
been and just committed to that instead.

1165
00:55:31,518 --> 00:55:34,728
Like I tried to get us back up
and running as fast as possible.

1166
00:55:34,848 --> 00:55:40,188
I expedited getting new computers
and this and putting this together

1167
00:55:40,188 --> 00:55:44,508
and just dumped all this time and
energy into trying to get us back.

1168
00:55:44,508 --> 00:55:49,488
And I was like, I was fairly
confident I could get us back to 75%

1169
00:55:49,488 --> 00:55:51,648
capacity in terms of our operations.

1170
00:55:51,978 --> 00:55:56,748
And I was lucky if I got
us back to maybe 20 to 25%.

1171
00:55:56,748 --> 00:55:56,808
Yeah.

1172
00:55:57,168 --> 00:55:58,638
Lucky on our best day.

1173
00:55:58,638 --> 00:55:59,748
Ah, geez.

1174
00:56:00,333 --> 00:56:00,543
And,

1175
00:56:00,543 --> 00:56:01,263
Scott Dean: and just to tie.

1176
00:56:01,533 --> 00:56:05,133
And the reason being is that most
people who have the insurance, that

1177
00:56:05,138 --> 00:56:09,573
you're required, there's a clause in
there that will pay your employees

1178
00:56:09,573 --> 00:56:11,043
for the time that they are down.

1179
00:56:11,403 --> 00:56:15,463
So when it came, when it came to
us to make the final adjustment,

1180
00:56:15,488 --> 00:56:19,103
it was, it would've been smarter
to let those guys take the break.

1181
00:56:19,123 --> 00:56:23,983
let us get back to operating to
where we can operate at 65 to 70%.

1182
00:56:24,193 --> 00:56:24,463
Not.

1183
00:56:25,423 --> 00:56:28,423
And just be bleeding money,
which you never got back from the

1184
00:56:28,423 --> 00:56:31,183
insurance company, because you
were technically operating, you

1185
00:56:31,183 --> 00:56:32,293
Mike Davis: were operating so operating

1186
00:56:32,973 --> 00:56:33,463
. 
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

1187
00:56:33,463 --> 00:56:34,993
See, I never would've
thought of that either.

1188
00:56:35,623 --> 00:56:36,613
but that's a good lesson.

1189
00:56:37,573 --> 00:56:38,533
Definitely a good lesson.

1190
00:56:39,403 --> 00:56:42,488
Peter Kourounis: So just a couple
of closing thoughts here, guys.

1191
00:56:42,488 --> 00:56:43,826
Mm-hmm for listeners out there.

1192
00:56:43,876 --> 00:56:46,456
I'll ask this to both
of you, Mike, you first.

1193
00:56:48,856 --> 00:56:55,186
what what advice would you give sign
shop owners, new, old, what have you

1194
00:56:55,546 --> 00:56:57,856
with various different backgrounds?

1195
00:56:57,916 --> 00:57:02,226
What would you do to advise them
on how they can prepare for another

1196
00:57:02,231 --> 00:57:04,086
type of crisis going in the future?

1197
00:57:04,170 --> 00:57:05,425
or that may happen in the future?

1198
00:57:06,565 --> 00:57:09,481
Mike Davis: I would say, the
one thing that we have done

1199
00:57:09,541 --> 00:57:11,060
that I'm really proud of is.

1200
00:57:11,133 --> 00:57:16,203
we haven't pigeonholed ourself
into one specific market into

1201
00:57:16,203 --> 00:57:18,543
one specific type of customer.

1202
00:57:19,293 --> 00:57:24,504
Like it's not, it's not a secret that most
of us work with national sign companies.

1203
00:57:24,774 --> 00:57:28,794
Most of us Subin installs and producing
graphics and signs and that type of thing.

1204
00:57:28,869 --> 00:57:33,069
I know some shop owners that rely on the
nationals for a ton of their business.

1205
00:57:33,309 --> 00:57:36,249
And if the nationals were to dry
up tomorrow, they would be in big.

1206
00:57:37,434 --> 00:57:41,633
And, we are right next to,
pot river enabled air base.

1207
00:57:41,903 --> 00:57:45,683
And I have some other local companies
who they rely on that base for a

1208
00:57:45,688 --> 00:57:47,243
significant source of their income.

1209
00:57:47,843 --> 00:57:51,413
And I made it my goal when I
bought the company that I wasn't

1210
00:57:51,413 --> 00:57:54,623
gonna be one of those guys that
relied on one source of income.

1211
00:57:54,883 --> 00:58:01,673
So I guess my biggest thing that I would
say is that establish multiple markets.

1212
00:58:01,988 --> 00:58:04,568
That you serve, don't
just serve the nationals.

1213
00:58:04,928 --> 00:58:08,378
Don't just serve your
local construction guys.

1214
00:58:08,436 --> 00:58:14,126
don't just be, the go-to guy who
does the vehicle wraps for all the

1215
00:58:14,126 --> 00:58:16,567
plumbing contractors in, your region.

1216
00:58:16,567 --> 00:58:21,967
Don't just pigeonhole yourself to one
market diversify to multiple markets

1217
00:58:21,967 --> 00:58:26,497
because when something slows down,
something else will pick up when

1218
00:58:26,497 --> 00:58:29,047
one type of customer stops buying.

1219
00:58:30,382 --> 00:58:31,762
there's an economic downturn.

1220
00:58:32,002 --> 00:58:33,772
There will be another type of customer.

1221
00:58:33,862 --> 00:58:37,342
If you were already serving
them, that things are picking

1222
00:58:37,342 --> 00:58:39,112
up for them for whatever reason.

1223
00:58:39,202 --> 00:58:39,292
Right?

1224
00:58:39,622 --> 00:58:44,002
And if you're already having those
contacts, you can easily pivot.

1225
00:58:44,362 --> 00:58:48,982
You can easily make those adjustment
adjustments with minimal effort.

1226
00:58:51,012 --> 00:58:51,952
Peter Kourounis: Great advice.

1227
00:58:51,952 --> 00:58:52,732
What about you, Scott?

1228
00:58:52,732 --> 00:58:53,002
I loved

1229
00:58:53,002 --> 00:58:57,332
Scott Dean: it, I guess from my operations
point of view, is I, my advice would.

1230
00:58:58,297 --> 00:59:02,067
two things know your books and
know your production and know your

1231
00:59:02,067 --> 00:59:07,484
sales and what you have been doing
prior to the signed apocalypse or

1232
00:59:07,489 --> 00:59:09,044
what, whatever issue you're having.

1233
00:59:09,674 --> 00:59:13,394
But you also probably should
be looking out into the future.

1234
00:59:13,399 --> 00:59:14,684
And I tell Mike all the time I'm.

1235
00:59:15,344 --> 00:59:18,014
When we were talking about inflation,
I'm like, I don't know if that's really

1236
00:59:18,014 --> 00:59:22,304
gonna affect us because our pricing has
steadily increased, but we haven't got

1237
00:59:22,304 --> 00:59:26,984
much pushback, but I think six, eight
months from now, we'll probably be seeing

1238
00:59:26,984 --> 00:59:30,717
less orders because people will be holding
tighter to their money and all that.

1239
00:59:30,717 --> 00:59:34,626
So my piece of advice is
always look forward, but also

1240
00:59:34,626 --> 00:59:35,616
know where you came from.

1241
00:59:35,676 --> 00:59:38,856
I know that's kind of cliche, but
I think it's important to know what

1242
00:59:38,856 --> 00:59:40,506
your sales are, what your payroll.

1243
00:59:41,046 --> 00:59:44,979
So when those things happen, those dollar
figures that you need to make that day

1244
00:59:45,039 --> 00:59:50,289
or that week, or that month to meet your
payroll, cuz when it comes down to it, our

1245
00:59:50,289 --> 00:59:54,798
main goal is to keep Mike paid and all his
employees paid because that's what we do.

1246
00:59:54,798 --> 00:59:57,048
That's why kind of we're in
business is to make money.

1247
00:59:57,558 --> 00:59:59,218
So that would be my piece of advice.

1248
00:59:59,848 --> 01:00:01,618
Bryant Gillespie: I love the
framework that you guys had.

1249
01:00:02,068 --> 01:00:05,416
That was like one of the big takeaways
for me of Hey, when times are tough.

1250
01:00:05,821 --> 01:00:08,521
Like I've got a whiteboard,
I'm looking seven days ahead.

1251
01:00:08,643 --> 01:00:11,883
just get me through these seven days
and chances are, if I can make it

1252
01:00:11,883 --> 01:00:15,303
through those seven days, the next
seven days we'll make it through.

1253
01:00:15,309 --> 01:00:17,309
it just keeps snowballing on that.

1254
01:00:17,699 --> 01:00:19,575
So what does, what do
you guys look like now?

1255
01:00:19,610 --> 01:00:21,050
what's the future for you guys?

1256
01:00:22,460 --> 01:00:24,530
Mike Davis: So we have.

1257
01:00:25,340 --> 01:00:28,970
We have moved into doing a lot
more larger scale projects.

1258
01:00:28,970 --> 01:00:32,185
And I think that's where we've
made pretty significant investment.

1259
01:00:32,213 --> 01:00:35,578
we actually hired a commercial
project manager and we had her on

1260
01:00:35,578 --> 01:00:37,762
the books for probably 14 months.

1261
01:00:37,783 --> 01:00:40,848
before we had a single project.

1262
01:00:41,888 --> 01:00:43,728
I mean, we just floated it on overhead.

1263
01:00:43,739 --> 01:00:47,129
so we have made significant investments
in the commercial sector to go.

1264
01:00:48,149 --> 01:00:52,319
That segment to not have to rely
on the national companies to not

1265
01:00:52,319 --> 01:00:57,475
have to rely on, just the local
defense stuff that is right.

1266
01:00:57,475 --> 01:00:58,268
Our backyard.

1267
01:00:58,268 --> 01:00:59,599
but we are partnering with.

1268
01:01:01,289 --> 01:01:05,899
national contracting companies,
local GCs that are building municipal

1269
01:01:06,169 --> 01:01:10,724
facilities, fire departments, hospitals,
dental offices, doing these build outs.

1270
01:01:10,724 --> 01:01:14,335
and we're even doing a, a regional
distribution facility for a

1271
01:01:14,335 --> 01:01:15,775
large grocery chain right now.

1272
01:01:16,085 --> 01:01:20,569
And, That is kind of where we are pushing,
more of those types of longstanding

1273
01:01:20,569 --> 01:01:25,309
relationships with these larger companies
that, we provide enough value to them

1274
01:01:25,309 --> 01:01:28,099
because we're experts in our field.

1275
01:01:28,879 --> 01:01:32,779
They don't know why they need
an ADA sign at a stairwell.

1276
01:01:32,784 --> 01:01:37,572
They don't understand, all these
specific installation guidelines

1277
01:01:37,572 --> 01:01:40,932
and why we need to have permits
on a state highway for a stop.

1278
01:01:41,024 --> 01:01:42,819
they don't understand all of these things.

1279
01:01:42,819 --> 01:01:47,579
And that's where we bring our level
of expertise and, we don't expect them

1280
01:01:47,579 --> 01:01:49,439
to give us all the answers and we.

1281
01:01:50,249 --> 01:01:54,269
And we have kind of really started
to carve out a niche and build these

1282
01:01:54,269 --> 01:01:59,579
relationships with these companies where
they don't even try to interpret or make

1283
01:01:59,579 --> 01:02:03,929
sense of these drawings or these plans
or these things that, that they've given.

1284
01:02:04,889 --> 01:02:08,489
They send it straight to us and they're
like, Hey, we got this job coming up.

1285
01:02:08,489 --> 01:02:11,099
It's this big project can,
y'all just make sense of it.

1286
01:02:11,099 --> 01:02:14,969
Tell us exactly what we need
to do and give us a bit, and

1287
01:02:15,059 --> 01:02:15,719
Bryant Gillespie: that's perfect.

1288
01:02:15,809 --> 01:02:16,949
That's the spot you wanna be in?

1289
01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:17,309
Do you wanna

1290
01:02:17,419 --> 01:02:17,819
Mike Davis: be the.

1291
01:02:18,389 --> 01:02:20,672
Well, and we have it.

1292
01:02:20,686 --> 01:02:22,699
we literally, and Scott
talked about whiteboarding.

1293
01:02:22,759 --> 01:02:26,869
We sat at a whiteboard probably almost
four years ago, and we figured out

1294
01:02:26,869 --> 01:02:28,549
who our ideal customer wanted to be.

1295
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:34,309
We wrote it out right down to the
smallest detail who we wanted our ideal

1296
01:02:34,314 --> 01:02:38,809
customer to be and what we wanted them
to look like, what we also mapped out

1297
01:02:38,839 --> 01:02:40,189
what we wanted to be as a company.

1298
01:02:40,194 --> 01:02:43,069
And one of the things we wrote down
four years ago is that we wanted

1299
01:02:43,069 --> 01:02:46,009
to be the authority in our region.

1300
01:02:46,954 --> 01:02:53,338
For these guys to reach out, to help them
and slowly but surely working on where

1301
01:02:53,338 --> 01:02:57,088
we wanted to be every single day over
the last four years, we now are in that

1302
01:02:57,093 --> 01:03:01,228
position where these larger companies are
calling us and being like, please help

1303
01:03:01,228 --> 01:03:03,358
us because we don't know what this means.

1304
01:03:03,598 --> 01:03:04,568
We don't know what this is.

1305
01:03:04,580 --> 01:03:04,850
and we,

1306
01:03:04,850 --> 01:03:05,690
Scott Dean: we talked about that.

1307
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:11,835
We have a group chat, but we just built a
sign for a animal shelter for our county.

1308
01:03:12,465 --> 01:03:16,095
And they literally, they came to
us and said, we wanna sign kind of

1309
01:03:16,095 --> 01:03:17,625
like the sign you did over here.

1310
01:03:17,985 --> 01:03:21,465
Well, it turned out into where our
graphic artists trademarked their

1311
01:03:21,465 --> 01:03:25,395
logo, cuz they didn't have one
and there was no questions asked.

1312
01:03:25,425 --> 01:03:26,355
They wanted to sign.

1313
01:03:26,415 --> 01:03:31,335
They knew we could produce it and we did
it and they were, it, everybody was happy.

1314
01:03:31,645 --> 01:03:33,205
they didn't have to do anything.

1315
01:03:33,205 --> 01:03:34,675
Didn't have to worry about anything.

1316
01:03:35,155 --> 01:03:36,313
And that's what Mike said.

1317
01:03:36,313 --> 01:03:40,033
So we want the architects, the
GCs, the municipalities to come to.

1318
01:03:40,963 --> 01:03:44,293
or at least say you should go to Hilltop
and figure out what it is you want

1319
01:03:44,563 --> 01:03:46,617
and what it is really at early stage
in the process at an early an early

1320
01:03:46,617 --> 01:03:48,528
stage, early stage in the process.

1321
01:03:49,098 --> 01:03:49,608
That's great.

1322
01:03:50,028 --> 01:03:53,734
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah,
guys, super incredible story.

1323
01:03:53,774 --> 01:03:56,997
I would've either pulled all my hair
out and it's kind of long at this point,

1324
01:03:57,087 --> 01:04:01,514
or I just would've gave up at that
point after going through everything

1325
01:04:01,514 --> 01:04:02,324
that you guys have been through.

1326
01:04:03,189 --> 01:04:05,973
I appreciate you guys
joining us on the podcast.

1327
01:04:06,046 --> 01:04:09,006
Peter, any closing thoughts
or questions before?

1328
01:04:10,081 --> 01:04:10,711
Wrap this one up.

1329
01:04:10,711 --> 01:04:10,891
No,

1330
01:04:11,031 --> 01:04:12,891
Peter Kourounis: this was one
of my favorite interviews, guys.

1331
01:04:13,011 --> 01:04:14,931
Thank you so much for
sharing your stories.

1332
01:04:14,931 --> 01:04:15,231
Appreciate it.

1333
01:04:15,291 --> 01:04:19,521
I love that you both came into this
business from very different perspectives,

1334
01:04:19,671 --> 01:04:23,421
from one background to just venturing
into the business, through your family.

1335
01:04:23,421 --> 01:04:24,591
It's a great story.

1336
01:04:24,771 --> 01:04:26,361
I was telling Bryant
before we got on here.

1337
01:04:26,366 --> 01:04:29,691
I think that this is gonna be one of
our better interviews and it sure was.

1338
01:04:29,691 --> 01:04:33,111
So thank you so much for being here
and sharing that with you guys.

1339
01:04:33,111 --> 01:04:35,631
I look forward to hearing about
your success and having you guys.

1340
01:04:36,296 --> 01:04:39,386
Another time talking us about what you
guys are doing, going into the new year.

1341
01:04:39,386 --> 01:04:40,196
So yeah.

1342
01:04:40,226 --> 01:04:41,046
Thank you so much.

1343
01:04:41,376 --> 01:04:43,698
Bryant Gillespie: if they're
interested in learning more about

1344
01:04:43,698 --> 01:04:45,138
Hilltop, where can they find you guys

1345
01:04:45,138 --> 01:04:45,568
Mike Davis: online?

1346
01:04:45,587 --> 01:04:48,857
so Hilltop signs, md.com is.

1347
01:04:49,572 --> 01:04:50,232
Our website.

1348
01:04:50,264 --> 01:04:52,589
we're also on all of our
social media channels.

1349
01:04:52,589 --> 01:04:58,336
So Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter,
LinkedIn, All those really good avenues

1350
01:04:58,341 --> 01:05:02,321
to get ahold of us, or, if anybody
has any comments, questions, concerns,

1351
01:05:02,531 --> 01:05:07,031
we do have a general email inbox,
which is sales, Hilltop signs, md.com.

1352
01:05:08,271 --> 01:05:08,551
Excellent.

1353
01:05:08,831 --> 01:05:10,651
Bryant Gillespie: And we'll
make sure add those links to the

1354
01:05:10,681 --> 01:05:12,391
show notes for this one, guys.

1355
01:05:12,571 --> 01:05:13,171
A pleasure.

1356
01:05:14,001 --> 01:05:14,731
I appreciate it.

1357
01:05:14,941 --> 01:05:15,211
All right.

1358
01:05:15,211 --> 01:05:15,451
Thank you.

1359
01:05:15,451 --> 01:05:15,661
Mike Davis: Okay.

1360
01:05:15,901 --> 01:05:16,831
Appreciate you having us.

1361
01:05:17,431 --> 01:05:17,951
Thanks guys.