WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.190 Pay podcast listener before we get started. 00:00:02.220 --> 00:00:06.030 I just wanted to forewarn you that the audio on my side is not very 00:00:06.030 --> 00:00:10.410 good because I forgot to plug in my microphone when I recorded with Brian. 00:00:10.410 --> 00:00:10.830 Yes. 00:00:11.220 --> 00:00:16.379 Uh, season 12 year plus podcaster makes mistakes from time to time. 00:00:16.860 --> 00:00:20.130 I threw the world's weight in AI processing at it. 00:00:20.669 --> 00:00:23.160 I don't know how good it did, but, uh, it's making it. 00:00:23.790 --> 00:00:24.390 Decent. 00:00:24.990 --> 00:00:27.060 Anyway, some surprises in this episode. 00:00:27.630 --> 00:00:28.290 Thanks for listening. 00:00:38.792 --> 00:00:40.592 Matt: We're back breaking content. 00:00:41.292 --> 00:00:42.722 Brian, it's been a while. 00:00:43.152 --> 00:00:43.542 How you doing? 00:00:44.242 --> 00:00:45.322 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Yeah, been a little while. 00:00:45.372 --> 00:00:46.282 yeah, doing good, Matt. 00:00:47.142 --> 00:00:48.832 I'm, I'm back from a couple trips. 00:00:49.792 --> 00:00:52.562 I've had, I've had some weird health issues that I've been 00:00:52.572 --> 00:00:55.332 battling, but I'm, I think I'm on the, on the other side of that now. 00:00:55.352 --> 00:00:56.902 And just getting back in the swing of things. 00:00:56.902 --> 00:01:01.342 Matt: last time we chatted, we were sort of going our separate ways on 00:01:01.372 --> 00:01:07.092 focusing the, one of the tasks that I was working on was, you know, really 00:01:07.402 --> 00:01:11.872 getting focused on, using LinkedIn a little bit more to drive traffic. 00:01:12.852 --> 00:01:14.872 We had a bit of a therapy session on both sides. 00:01:14.932 --> 00:01:17.972 My therapy session was should I continue to do this content? 00:01:18.132 --> 00:01:23.032 You were just getting started with publishing your first 00:01:23.032 --> 00:01:24.212 few videos to YouTube. 00:01:24.322 --> 00:01:27.812 So we'll catch the listeners up on that and then we have another 00:01:27.812 --> 00:01:32.513 special surprise that we'll chat about roughly halfway through. 00:01:32.513 --> 00:01:37.452 I'll kick it off with the LinkedIn stuff that I was working on. 00:01:38.532 --> 00:01:44.702 It's been, it's been working and I haven't really ever focused in or dialed 00:01:44.702 --> 00:01:50.482 in on LinkedIn as much as I have here in the last, you know, month or so. 00:01:51.072 --> 00:01:52.892 I've been just looking at my, I use Fathom. 00:01:53.302 --> 00:01:59.762 from my website stats, and there is a definite uptick in the incoming 00:01:59.762 --> 00:02:04.412 traffic to the WP minute through LinkedIn as a refer much more so than 00:02:04.412 --> 00:02:06.022 it has been for the previous months. 00:02:06.642 --> 00:02:12.702 And then LinkedIn sort of gives you this, I don't know, boost of encouragement. 00:02:12.922 --> 00:02:15.772 It tells you, which I'm sure everyone listening to this who 00:02:15.772 --> 00:02:18.632 uses LinkedIn has seen, but it will tell you in your updates. 00:02:19.082 --> 00:02:24.242 The impressions, and the comments and, you know, just your weekly reach. 00:02:24.282 --> 00:02:27.412 I think I get an email about that, you know, and it's up like 9, 00:02:27.482 --> 00:02:28.162 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: are you doing on 00:02:28.312 --> 00:02:30.872 Matt: percent because I'm actually using it now. 00:02:31.182 --> 00:02:33.002 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: just, are you just posting your, like 00:02:33.002 --> 00:02:35.132 your latest content from WP Minute? 00:02:35.297 --> 00:02:40.487 Matt: Yeah, I am, and I'm just putting a much more personal message in it. 00:02:40.487 --> 00:02:42.207 or for it on LinkedIn. 00:02:42.497 --> 00:02:45.417 Stuff I don't do on Twitter as much. 00:02:45.847 --> 00:02:48.387 The Twitter engagement is just awful. 00:02:48.877 --> 00:02:49.497 Awful. 00:02:49.647 --> 00:02:52.037 And, you know, it's I think we 00:02:52.117 --> 00:02:55.047 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: And on LinkedIn it's a bit more long form, or? 00:02:55.667 --> 00:03:00.337 Matt: I mean, for me anyway, like, long form for me on LinkedIn is 00:03:00.347 --> 00:03:02.397 like three to four paragraphs. 00:03:03.437 --> 00:03:04.347 Like I open. 00:03:04.357 --> 00:03:06.197 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: that's like still like a normal post 00:03:06.237 --> 00:03:07.817 that people would do on LinkedIn. 00:03:07.817 --> 00:03:10.347 It's not like Twitter where, even though they have longer posts 00:03:10.347 --> 00:03:11.937 now, people still do short tweets 00:03:12.327 --> 00:03:12.827 Matt: Yeah. 00:03:13.287 --> 00:03:17.127 but I'm just getting and I'm not like putting this stuff in an Excel 00:03:17.127 --> 00:03:18.407 spreadsheet or anything like that. 00:03:18.407 --> 00:03:19.807 And really measuring it. 00:03:20.097 --> 00:03:22.247 But I mean, people are engaging more. 00:03:22.387 --> 00:03:22.997 They're talking. 00:03:23.017 --> 00:03:26.597 They're leaving comments more much more than, you know, across 00:03:26.597 --> 00:03:31.017 the board on on Twitter and yeah, it's really been working. 00:03:31.047 --> 00:03:33.317 I just feel like I don't want to be. 00:03:33.357 --> 00:03:36.597 This is my problem with all social media is. 00:03:37.032 --> 00:03:40.362 I start to say, well, I don't want to be just another person 00:03:40.402 --> 00:03:42.252 pitching things on social media. 00:03:42.532 --> 00:03:48.622 How can I make this experience on just LinkedIn a little bit more special? 00:03:48.892 --> 00:03:53.432 Like with Twitter, like you get to really know who I am, what I do, and 00:03:53.912 --> 00:03:56.932 you know, there's a personality there that I think people know and understand 00:03:57.262 --> 00:04:01.162 where it might be less so in LinkedIn because it's a mixture of, you know, 00:04:01.202 --> 00:04:04.982 local professionals that I know and then my friends on the internet, 00:04:05.032 --> 00:04:06.262 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Yeah, that's what I, that's what I want 00:04:06.272 --> 00:04:09.462 to know is like, all right, is there, there's probably a difference in the, 00:04:10.652 --> 00:04:15.682 like the, the people or the types of people that it's probably people, people 00:04:15.722 --> 00:04:19.312 that probably never see your Twitter stuff because they're not Twitter people. 00:04:19.322 --> 00:04:20.252 They're LinkedIn people. 00:04:20.287 --> 00:04:25.037 Matt: Yeah, and, so I've been trying to, bridge that, bridge that gap a little 00:04:25.037 --> 00:04:29.727 bit because I still do get, you know, again, local community having, you 00:04:29.727 --> 00:04:34.087 know, run an agency locally and a car dealership for that and just being, you 00:04:34.087 --> 00:04:38.807 know, more present in my local community over the last, you know, 15, 20 years. 00:04:40.397 --> 00:04:45.707 it was weird for me to go and start using LinkedIn a lot for my WordPress and 00:04:45.707 --> 00:04:47.757 the podcasting stuff that I talk about. 00:04:47.927 --> 00:04:49.707 Oh, Gravity Forms WordPress Podcasting. 00:04:49.717 --> 00:04:53.087 those are the three main silos of things that I'm talking about. 00:04:53.787 --> 00:04:54.167 And something 00:04:54.462 --> 00:04:55.962 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Do you find it's people who are like 00:04:55.962 --> 00:04:57.672 really, engaged in those things? 00:04:57.672 --> 00:04:58.132 Like they 00:04:58.377 --> 00:04:58.727 Matt: Oh, yeah. 00:04:59.832 --> 00:05:01.172 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: either they are podcasters or 00:05:01.172 --> 00:05:02.472 they are running WordPress sites. 00:05:02.887 --> 00:05:10.557 Matt: I feel like LinkedIn does a much better job at At hitting, yeah, at, way, 00:05:10.797 --> 00:05:14.937 and I think that might be the actual, like in the back of my head, I feel like 00:05:14.937 --> 00:05:17.537 I'm, what is it when you're not ghosted? 00:05:17.557 --> 00:05:21.827 what is it when you're pulled out of, you, when you're pulled out of the algorithm 00:05:21.827 --> 00:05:23.197 and people don't see you as much? 00:05:23.197 --> 00:05:25.667 Yeah, 00:05:25.687 --> 00:05:26.647 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I know what you're talking about. 00:05:26.687 --> 00:05:28.877 Yeah, there's, there's like a, a word for that. 00:05:28.877 --> 00:05:29.397 I forgot what it 00:05:29.407 --> 00:05:30.507 Matt: there's a word for it. 00:05:30.507 --> 00:05:33.247 I can't think of it right now, but I really think Twitter doesn't know 00:05:33.247 --> 00:05:35.467 what to do with me algorithmically. 00:05:35.902 --> 00:05:38.692 Because I do talk about WordPress. 00:05:38.962 --> 00:05:42.812 I do talk about podcasting in two very different ways. 00:05:43.882 --> 00:05:46.212 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: This is my, that's been my biggest 00:05:46.652 --> 00:05:51.632 complaint of, of using Twitter and it's, but I still, Twitter is still the only one 00:05:51.632 --> 00:05:53.672 that I ever actually use on a daily basis. 00:05:53.732 --> 00:05:56.002 I really don't use anything else. 00:05:56.702 --> 00:05:59.212 Nowhere near as frequently as I'm on Twitter. 00:05:59.972 --> 00:06:05.082 so I don't know, maybe I should, I really probably should get into LinkedIn. 00:06:05.132 --> 00:06:06.582 I haven't touched it in years. 00:06:06.842 --> 00:06:09.202 I tried to get into threads, but it's just not sticking. 00:06:09.202 --> 00:06:11.022 It just feels like there's not enough people there yet. 00:06:11.702 --> 00:06:12.802 I never touch Facebook. 00:06:13.502 --> 00:06:16.032 But with Twitter, yeah, the thing that I've always wanted on 00:06:16.032 --> 00:06:24.582 Twitter is like some way to sub sub group my father for followers. 00:06:24.622 --> 00:06:28.342 So if I could, if I could say you could subscribe, you could follow me on Twitter. 00:06:28.842 --> 00:06:32.582 But sometimes I talk about politics, or sometimes I talk about 00:06:33.342 --> 00:06:34.052 technical 00:06:34.562 --> 00:06:39.092 web programming, or sometimes I'm talking about bootstrapping in business. 00:06:39.352 --> 00:06:42.522 And if you, and if, and if you are into prop politics, and you want to 00:06:42.522 --> 00:06:46.992 hear my opinions on that, subscribe to, to my politics type tweets. 00:06:47.952 --> 00:06:52.802 And, and then, and then I know that if I'm ever doing some, any sort of 00:06:52.802 --> 00:06:54.232 political rant, only the people who 00:06:54.232 --> 00:06:54.282 are 00:06:54.282 --> 00:06:56.852 actually interested in that are going to see it, you know, and I'm 00:06:56.852 --> 00:06:59.962 not going to annoy the, the people who want to tune politics out. 00:07:00.622 --> 00:07:04.382 You know, not that I and that's actually why I almost never tweet about politics. 00:07:04.392 --> 00:07:06.192 It's because I know most people don't want to hear about it. 00:07:06.782 --> 00:07:09.002 you know, or like, or like New York sports, right? 00:07:09.002 --> 00:07:10.282 there's so much I want to tweet, 00:07:10.317 --> 00:07:10.447 Matt: I 00:07:10.692 --> 00:07:13.752 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: but I know that, yeah, like 99 percent 00:07:14.012 --> 00:07:16.732 of Twitter does not want to hear me talk about the Knicks, you know? 00:07:17.302 --> 00:07:17.722 so 00:07:18.257 --> 00:07:19.597 Matt: So I started to think about. 00:07:19.607 --> 00:07:19.937 So. 00:07:20.787 --> 00:07:22.577 So there's that like that experiment. 00:07:22.647 --> 00:07:29.647 of uncovering new social media, investing in it, at least from what I'm doing 00:07:29.647 --> 00:07:34.217 right now, I'm definitely seeing a positive with, and spending a little 00:07:34.217 --> 00:07:35.877 bit of time, a little extra time. 00:07:36.117 --> 00:07:40.097 It's all it is a little extra time of I'm not running it through chat GPT. 00:07:41.107 --> 00:07:44.387 I'm just, here's the hook and here's the summary. 00:07:44.507 --> 00:07:47.097 Here's the value, you know, and I'm the only, and the other 00:07:47.097 --> 00:07:47.997 thing that I'm doing is like. 00:07:48.462 --> 00:07:52.252 Air quotes strategy is I don't link it in the original post. 00:07:52.312 --> 00:07:53.592 I put the link in the comments. 00:07:53.632 --> 00:07:54.532 Why do I do that? 00:07:54.552 --> 00:07:57.572 I don't know because I see other people do it, right? 00:07:57.832 --> 00:07:58.092 So 00:07:58.452 --> 00:07:58.702 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Yeah. 00:07:58.702 --> 00:08:01.012 And I wonder if LinkedIn, because that's the other thing that's really 00:08:01.012 --> 00:08:04.072 annoying about Twitter is that it's, it's like a known fact now that 00:08:04.102 --> 00:08:08.782 if your tweet has a link in it, it's going to be demoted, right? 00:08:08.842 --> 00:08:11.332 Like they just, they just downplay links for whatever reason. 00:08:11.882 --> 00:08:13.422 I, I wonder if that's the case on LinkedIn. 00:08:14.272 --> 00:08:16.102 Matt: they even downplay Twitter. 00:08:16.592 --> 00:08:17.632 They even downplay video. 00:08:17.642 --> 00:08:22.232 Like I'll do a three text, a three sentence text update, 00:08:22.582 --> 00:08:23.602 like whatever it is I'm doing. 00:08:23.612 --> 00:08:26.362 I'm either showing you something in podcast world, WordPress 00:08:26.382 --> 00:08:27.652 world, gravity forms world. 00:08:27.942 --> 00:08:30.142 I'll write a little paragraph and I'll upload a video. 00:08:30.732 --> 00:08:34.362 And then I'll put the rest of it in like the thread of whatever, I'll tag. 00:08:34.372 --> 00:08:36.942 I won't even tag Gravity Forms, I won't tag my own website. 00:08:37.802 --> 00:08:40.712 And even the videos don't, you know, I'm talking like two 00:08:40.902 --> 00:08:42.402 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I have noticed that about videos. 00:08:42.432 --> 00:08:46.012 I think that images tend to do better on, on Twitter though. 00:08:46.022 --> 00:08:47.912 They seem to promote. 00:08:48.912 --> 00:08:51.382 I mean, you know, there's no like hard and fast rule. 00:08:51.382 --> 00:08:51.857 It, it, yeah. 00:08:52.247 --> 00:08:54.367 It's not going to, it's not if you put an image on every 00:08:54.367 --> 00:08:55.487 tweet, it's going to do better. 00:08:55.517 --> 00:09:00.557 But I do notice that, and this could just be people's behavior to 00:09:00.557 --> 00:09:05.157 like people just might react faster and easier when they see an image 00:09:05.157 --> 00:09:06.977 rather than having to read the text. 00:09:06.987 --> 00:09:08.807 But, yeah, 00:09:09.482 --> 00:09:10.352 Matt: So I did another 00:09:10.477 --> 00:09:11.897 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I, but yeah, that, that like 00:09:11.957 --> 00:09:15.977 concept of and this has been, I've had this like in theory for, 00:09:16.137 --> 00:09:18.187 for months, years at this point. 00:09:18.207 --> 00:09:21.652 And I've never been able to actually put it into practice, which is yeah. 00:09:21.982 --> 00:09:27.032 Every week I want to have, a big new post, whether that be a video or a 00:09:27.032 --> 00:09:31.912 newsletter, and then I want to turn that into X number of tweets and 00:09:31.922 --> 00:09:34.422 linkedin posts and whatever else. 00:09:34.892 --> 00:09:36.262 and it never works that way. 00:09:36.342 --> 00:09:38.762 I, you know, I just, 00:09:38.772 --> 00:09:43.672 Matt: has always been, you know, reactionary to me, for me. 00:09:43.682 --> 00:09:45.532 Like dynamic and reactionary. 00:09:45.802 --> 00:09:48.032 I don't know, and I'm sure you've had this. 00:09:48.837 --> 00:09:50.097 Discussion with others. 00:09:50.307 --> 00:09:56.357 And, you know, I, I know when I left my, my last job in podcasting, I 00:09:56.357 --> 00:10:00.857 talked to other, like podcast hosting companies, you know, interviewing me 00:10:00.857 --> 00:10:02.207 or whatever, like for these roles. 00:10:02.597 --> 00:10:05.597 And even afterwards, people, you know, not to toot my own horn, but 00:10:05.597 --> 00:10:07.457 people were like, Hey, you know, are you, you looking for a job? 00:10:07.457 --> 00:10:09.707 We'd love to have you, like social media. 00:10:10.387 --> 00:10:16.007 And just too many people look at this stuff as a task and I get it, I get 00:10:16.007 --> 00:10:21.177 it like I get that you want to like optimize and you want efficiency and 00:10:21.177 --> 00:10:24.927 you think about the content marketing wheel and you start with the cornerstone 00:10:24.927 --> 00:10:27.947 content, you slice and dice it and then you broadcast it everywhere, 00:10:28.277 --> 00:10:30.907 but the best social media YouTube. 00:10:31.002 --> 00:10:32.022 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: it's like personality. 00:10:32.137 --> 00:10:35.657 Matt: the best way you're going to get represented on social media is 00:10:35.657 --> 00:10:40.467 personality and somebody who's living and breathing that industry and that 00:10:40.467 --> 00:10:42.617 customer mindset for your brand. 00:10:43.092 --> 00:10:46.902 I don't know how the hell else you'll do it effectively, because at the end 00:10:46.902 --> 00:10:49.942 of the day, you're going to, a year is going to go by, you're going to 00:10:49.942 --> 00:10:53.482 look at a spreadsheet, and it's going to say you had 13, 000 impressions, 00:10:53.482 --> 00:10:54.782 and you're not going to be happy. 00:10:55.482 --> 00:10:59.122 Right, so having somebody in the seat that is experienced and 00:10:59.122 --> 00:11:00.642 good at this stuff is, is tough. 00:11:01.342 --> 00:11:01.812 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: For sure. 00:11:02.502 --> 00:11:03.012 Matt: I did some, 00:11:03.242 --> 00:11:03.432 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Yeah. 00:11:03.432 --> 00:11:04.302 I mean, I, I don't know. 00:11:04.302 --> 00:11:08.522 I, I, I, I do still want to, I want to produce and publish more 00:11:08.522 --> 00:11:11.812 content this year, but I haven't been able to actually do it yet. 00:11:12.242 --> 00:11:15.882 That's been a, that's been a big, challenge, just literally, time in the 00:11:15.882 --> 00:11:20.852 day and energy wise, Most of my tweets and part of the thing is like when I 00:11:20.892 --> 00:11:24.502 don't tweet very often, it's usually because I just have these like quick, 00:11:25.222 --> 00:11:30.582 not even half formed thoughts of, of, of some thing I want to share and then I'm 00:11:30.582 --> 00:11:33.212 just like, I haven't thought that through enough and I'm just not going to tweet it. 00:11:33.242 --> 00:11:33.932 And then that's it. 00:11:34.052 --> 00:11:37.102 Um, and, and then I'm just quiet tweets. 00:11:37.737 --> 00:11:39.227 More, more weeks at a time, 00:11:39.952 --> 00:11:40.712 Matt: for more weeks. 00:11:42.052 --> 00:11:45.402 so I did something else from our last time that we connected. 00:11:46.282 --> 00:11:52.292 I, I won't say the, the person's name because it wasn't a negative experience. 00:11:52.292 --> 00:11:54.832 It was just a very flat experience. 00:11:54.867 --> 00:11:55.787 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: let's call him out. 00:11:55.797 --> 00:11:56.397 Come on. 00:11:57.032 --> 00:11:58.592 Matt: I'll tell you off, off air. 00:11:59.142 --> 00:12:03.172 YouTuber, very good size audience, helps other YouTubers. 00:12:03.772 --> 00:12:08.842 Has an offer to, sit, sit with him on a one on one. 00:12:08.842 --> 00:12:10.592 it was 300 bucks for 30 minutes. 00:12:11.292 --> 00:12:13.392 Now, I've been doing YouTube since 2010. 00:12:14.262 --> 00:12:18.232 I'm not like, brand new to this stuff, but I always have questions 00:12:18.232 --> 00:12:19.282 like, should I be tagging? 00:12:19.282 --> 00:12:20.212 Should I be doing SEO? 00:12:20.212 --> 00:12:20.812 Should I be doing this? 00:12:21.342 --> 00:12:22.522 You know, all these things run through your head. 00:12:22.992 --> 00:12:26.472 And I know at the end of the day is, for YouTube, it's creating more content. 00:12:26.682 --> 00:12:28.272 That's just what that machine wants. 00:12:28.642 --> 00:12:29.272 And I hate it. 00:12:29.352 --> 00:12:30.442 I hate it because of that. 00:12:30.672 --> 00:12:32.712 But I also know that that's how it works. 00:12:33.502 --> 00:12:34.082 So whatever. 00:12:34.602 --> 00:12:35.382 Set up the time. 00:12:36.082 --> 00:12:40.192 It's all, you know, I go sign up, get the automated emails, you know, he has this 00:12:40.202 --> 00:12:46.462 process where it says, Hey, share your stats with me, through Google's account 00:12:46.462 --> 00:12:48.092 settings, share your stats with me. 00:12:48.092 --> 00:12:50.072 That way I can go and dive in and look at your stats. 00:12:50.212 --> 00:12:51.312 So man, I'm sitting there ready. 00:12:51.422 --> 00:12:53.112 Like this is, this is great professional. 00:12:53.202 --> 00:12:54.402 This is 600 an hour. 00:12:54.492 --> 00:12:55.292 this is what I expect. 00:12:55.882 --> 00:12:56.172 Right. 00:12:56.392 --> 00:12:58.432 You know, so he's going to look at my stats, let's get into it. 00:12:59.132 --> 00:13:03.362 Hey, then he's 10 minutes late, you know, you know, to the, to the call 00:13:03.652 --> 00:13:07.152 and I'm messaging him trying to be like, okay, I get it sending the 00:13:07.152 --> 00:13:09.782 DMS and I'm replying to an email. 00:13:09.822 --> 00:13:10.322 I'm not getting 00:13:10.432 --> 00:13:11.312 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: And does he really need to be 00:13:11.312 --> 00:13:13.492 invited to your Google analytics? 00:13:13.502 --> 00:13:14.732 You can't just show him or 00:13:14.732 --> 00:13:15.072 Matt: Yeah. 00:13:15.082 --> 00:13:18.562 I mean, but I actually like, I was like, Hey, this is cool 00:13:18.562 --> 00:13:22.772 because now you'll, you'll look at this stuff prior to the meeting. 00:13:22.842 --> 00:13:25.192 And that's kind of what I expect for 600 bucks an hour. 00:13:25.192 --> 00:13:26.522 Like you're ready to go. 00:13:26.552 --> 00:13:27.412 I'm ready to go. 00:13:27.442 --> 00:13:28.182 We're professionals. 00:13:28.182 --> 00:13:28.792 Let's do this. 00:13:29.832 --> 00:13:32.152 And then he like shows, you know, a couple, whatever. 00:13:32.152 --> 00:13:32.212 Yeah. 00:13:32.227 --> 00:13:34.647 you know, 10 minutes late, a couple of excuses, automation, yada, yada. 00:13:34.647 --> 00:13:38.687 So we just dive in and he's just okay, where do you want, where do you want help? 00:13:38.737 --> 00:13:41.027 so I kind of like tell him, you know what I'm looking for him like, Hey, 00:13:41.027 --> 00:13:43.987 I know this is a therapy session, but I need here's my competitors. 00:13:44.207 --> 00:13:45.297 Here's how they're growing. 00:13:45.317 --> 00:13:49.107 Here's how I'm not growing, like where you think I'm like really missing the gap. 00:13:49.477 --> 00:13:53.297 But the short of it is he didn't even look at my account dashboard. 00:13:53.822 --> 00:13:59.522 And it was everything I've always heard him say in his videos. 00:13:59.912 --> 00:14:00.952 It was the same thing. 00:14:01.372 --> 00:14:02.402 It was thumbnail, 00:14:03.072 --> 00:14:04.612 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: of a personalized thing should be like, 00:14:04.622 --> 00:14:09.152 he should be asking you questions so that he can give you personalized feedback. 00:14:09.162 --> 00:14:12.742 Matt: So it was just one of those things where it was like, never 00:14:12.742 --> 00:14:16.842 meet your heroes kind of moment, especially when you're paying for it. 00:14:17.422 --> 00:14:23.732 and, you know, I mean, he, what it was, was he did you know, hey, Don't 00:14:23.732 --> 00:14:28.822 worry so much about the, you know, SEO in the description tagging. 00:14:29.222 --> 00:14:34.292 you know, all this other stuff, which was good because at least that silenced 00:14:34.292 --> 00:14:36.172 that part of my brain a little bit. 00:14:36.182 --> 00:14:39.112 Cause that's always like on my mind, you know, but then it was kind of like, 00:14:39.112 --> 00:14:41.612 well, look, you know, we pulled up one of my competitors and I was just like, 00:14:41.612 --> 00:14:44.722 well, you know, that your competitors thumbnails are better than yours. 00:14:44.762 --> 00:14:49.242 And I was like, that was at that moment where I was just like, no, I was like, 00:14:49.252 --> 00:14:51.757 nah, it's not like his thumbnails aren't. 00:14:52.847 --> 00:14:54.587 Blowing my thumbnails away. 00:14:54.587 --> 00:14:58.057 this is, I'm like, I think that that's kind of not really anyway. 00:14:58.367 --> 00:15:02.147 So we moved on and, and then it got like towards, like towards the end. 00:15:02.147 --> 00:15:03.707 I'm like, all right, well, I have another question. 00:15:03.747 --> 00:15:06.037 So this is like 20 minutes in. 00:15:06.737 --> 00:15:07.717 So I was like, all right. 00:15:07.727 --> 00:15:10.577 So I got one more question on the technical and like audience retention. 00:15:10.597 --> 00:15:11.937 you know, how important is that? 00:15:12.932 --> 00:15:14.672 And then he said something like, oh, he's like, all right, yeah, 00:15:14.922 --> 00:15:17.152 just like one or two more questions and then we got to wrap it up. 00:15:17.852 --> 00:15:20.022 I'm just like, I just man, 00:15:20.212 --> 00:15:21.192 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: like, why are you even offering 00:15:21.322 --> 00:15:27.752 Matt: yeah, like if, if, if I was doing a 300, for 30 minutes, I would 00:15:27.782 --> 00:15:31.502 probably give that person an hour as long as they're not a maniac. 00:15:31.932 --> 00:15:35.302 You know, it's as long as you're not crazy and you're not like, 00:15:35.312 --> 00:15:36.492 this is not a weird thing. 00:15:36.642 --> 00:15:37.732 I'm giving you an hour. 00:15:38.742 --> 00:15:40.572 I'm not like boom, boom, 30 minutes. 00:15:40.692 --> 00:15:41.422 And then as we, 00:15:41.467 --> 00:15:41.797 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: thing. 00:15:41.887 --> 00:15:46.267 I, I mean, I've, I've dabbled in some coaching, some of it recently. 00:15:46.267 --> 00:15:48.577 And then others going back a couple of years ago, I was 00:15:48.577 --> 00:15:49.907 doing that with productize. 00:15:51.047 --> 00:15:55.877 I always, if I do any sort of coaching, I really spend, first 00:15:55.877 --> 00:15:59.577 of all, half an hour is like too short in my opinion for anything. 00:16:00.147 --> 00:16:03.147 I feel like you, you can't even do it unless it's like an hour, because 00:16:03.517 --> 00:16:08.287 a half, cause, cause I, I spent the first 20 minutes just asking questions. 00:16:08.987 --> 00:16:12.597 You know, and then and then the rest of it is okay, now that I understand 00:16:12.597 --> 00:16:16.697 where you're coming from and you're and sometimes just there's just 00:16:16.707 --> 00:16:20.137 the act of asking the questions asking hard questions is like. 00:16:21.297 --> 00:16:22.317 That's part of the value. 00:16:22.367 --> 00:16:25.877 It's like somebody, somebody kind of like grilling you on hard questions, right? 00:16:26.567 --> 00:16:28.967 But it's also a way for me to get an understanding of where you're coming from. 00:16:28.967 --> 00:16:32.537 And then I can spend 30, 40 minutes, giving my thoughts on it. 00:16:32.797 --> 00:16:36.677 The other, the other thing I used to do years ago was website teardowns. 00:16:36.707 --> 00:16:40.937 And this was totally async, where the person would send me. 00:16:41.662 --> 00:16:44.512 I think just, I think it was like, they just sent me the, their 00:16:44.512 --> 00:16:50.252 website and I would record like a 15 minute, 15, 20 minute first 00:16:50.382 --> 00:16:52.252 reaction walkthrough of their website. 00:16:52.252 --> 00:16:55.992 And it's totally me looking at their website and giving them feedback. 00:16:56.072 --> 00:16:58.092 And, and that was that. 00:16:58.142 --> 00:17:02.382 and then recently I was doing, I, I sort of stopped this for now, but I, doing 00:17:02.382 --> 00:17:07.352 some like product strategy coaching where We'd start with a big one question, we 00:17:07.352 --> 00:17:09.902 would sort of go back and forth for a half an hour, and then we would have 00:17:09.942 --> 00:17:11.952 async follow up for three or four days. 00:17:11.952 --> 00:17:17.752 and, and that would be like a one time price, but it's ask one big question. 00:17:17.802 --> 00:17:19.012 I give you my big feedback. 00:17:19.012 --> 00:17:21.472 And then we have a, there's always going to be like, oh, all right. 00:17:21.472 --> 00:17:23.412 So now that you've given me that feedback, I've got 1 or 2 00:17:23.412 --> 00:17:24.942 follow up questions off of that. 00:17:24.962 --> 00:17:27.412 Let's, let's cover those in the next 3, 4 days. 00:17:27.692 --> 00:17:28.382 And then we wrap it up. 00:17:28.482 --> 00:17:28.822 Matt: Yeah. 00:17:29.522 --> 00:17:32.132 And you know, basically what that whole, Oh yeah. 00:17:32.132 --> 00:17:39.562 So then, then like the kicker was, it was like, he had a, whether he rehearsed 00:17:39.562 --> 00:17:44.582 it or it wasn't in front of him, he had a two minute, like outro of Fill out 00:17:44.582 --> 00:17:48.102 this survey on G2 or whatever it was. 00:17:48.242 --> 00:17:50.222 Like if you're really, you know, happy with this consultation, 00:17:50.222 --> 00:17:50.892 fill out this survey. 00:17:50.892 --> 00:17:54.582 And oh, by the way, like I also have if you want to get my, if 00:17:54.582 --> 00:17:56.692 you want to get like my starter pack, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:17:56.692 --> 00:17:58.402 Like you can get it now for 50 percent off. 00:17:58.422 --> 00:18:00.092 I really appreciate the time we spent together today. 00:18:00.092 --> 00:18:01.002 Yada, yada, yada. 00:18:01.002 --> 00:18:02.862 And I was just like, ah, right, dude. 00:18:03.362 --> 00:18:04.152 God, it was just. 00:18:04.527 --> 00:18:06.287 Such a deflating experience. 00:18:06.347 --> 00:18:10.537 And, you know, I still really appreciate his content, but it did two things. 00:18:11.187 --> 00:18:15.917 One, it encouraged me to have the same kind of offer. 00:18:16.617 --> 00:18:20.207 Well, the first part it was, what it did is it made me realize like on 00:18:20.217 --> 00:18:26.707 YouTube anyway, the upload cadence, the thumbnail, the title, and once the 00:18:26.737 --> 00:18:28.917 algorithm knows you for a specific thing. 00:18:29.287 --> 00:18:34.227 Like you kind of lean into that until you start maybe shifting the algorithm again. 00:18:34.427 --> 00:18:38.547 And for me, it's that like right now anyway, I'm living in the 2024 theme, 00:18:38.547 --> 00:18:40.207 which is the default theme for WordPress. 00:18:40.517 --> 00:18:43.187 That's where I'm getting a lot of traffic and I can understand 00:18:43.187 --> 00:18:44.477 that I can double down on that. 00:18:44.477 --> 00:18:45.247 And that's what he was telling me. 00:18:45.247 --> 00:18:50.027 He's you, he's you got to make 12 videos on 2024 and it's just 00:18:50.027 --> 00:18:53.657 going to compound and you're just going to see like massive growth. 00:18:53.657 --> 00:18:55.927 And I don't think he's wrong with that because I've seen him do that. 00:18:56.702 --> 00:19:00.342 So that kind of put that frame that for me and then two is 00:19:00.627 --> 00:19:01.507 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Yeah, I feel like the thing 00:19:01.507 --> 00:19:02.382 with the, with the, yeah. 00:19:02.812 --> 00:19:04.692 Publishing frequently on YouTube. 00:19:05.792 --> 00:19:09.962 I don't think that it's the, it's the act of frequently publishing on YouTube. 00:19:10.272 --> 00:19:14.872 that, that does it's, it's by, by publishing frequently, you're covering 00:19:14.872 --> 00:19:18.682 lots of topics and then you can see which ones hit and then you can go do 00:19:18.682 --> 00:19:22.442 more of those like the 24 or theme, you know, it's, it's more of that, 00:19:22.442 --> 00:19:25.692 like you gets you into the habit of publishing and, and that's been, 00:19:26.032 --> 00:19:27.082 that's been a big challenge for me. 00:19:27.082 --> 00:19:27.792 I'm just trying to. 00:19:27.822 --> 00:19:27.842 Yeah. 00:19:28.542 --> 00:19:32.612 Get into the I'm trying to figure out the systems to outsource editing so that 00:19:32.612 --> 00:19:37.062 I can publish more and that's been a huge pain Maybe we can get into that but 00:19:38.327 --> 00:19:42.057 Matt: so put that it sort of ease that and bolstered me on that side of it. 00:19:42.057 --> 00:19:44.687 And then two is like just coming up with a similar offering. 00:19:45.937 --> 00:19:48.267 because one, yeah, 00:19:48.392 --> 00:19:50.392 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: so you're offering now is basically 00:19:50.452 --> 00:19:52.832 its membership and its sponsors 00:19:53.532 --> 00:19:56.692 Matt: so it's membership and sponsors for the content and 00:19:56.692 --> 00:19:58.222 then it's Google ads, which is. 00:19:58.832 --> 00:19:59.512 You know, whatever. 00:19:59.512 --> 00:20:02.502 It's just a few hundred, a few hundred bucks a month that comes in on that 00:20:02.542 --> 00:20:04.312 until, you know, views go up, et cetera. 00:20:04.312 --> 00:20:11.932 But, training and education is, is something that will always, has 00:20:11.942 --> 00:20:14.172 always existed, existed in WordPress. 00:20:14.662 --> 00:20:20.042 And it's something that I think is still going to be like a thing that is still 00:20:20.052 --> 00:20:22.062 needed for, you know, years to come. 00:20:22.062 --> 00:20:25.232 Especially as WordPress changes dramatically, the admin's going to change. 00:20:25.822 --> 00:20:29.502 The way we're building these sites are going to change and having that 00:20:30.242 --> 00:20:35.462 as, as a product, or a service is something that I'm also interested in 00:20:35.462 --> 00:20:39.942 because that's something that I can, you know, really sink my teeth into 00:20:39.942 --> 00:20:44.812 and I think could be a moneymaker for, you know, for the business and 00:20:44.857 --> 00:20:46.627 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Like personalized training or like 00:20:47.372 --> 00:20:51.992 Matt: either personalized or, Either personalized or like 00:20:51.992 --> 00:20:53.032 a more corporate setting. 00:20:53.592 --> 00:20:59.132 I think, I got paid really well when I ran my agency actually by, Rutgers University. 00:20:59.532 --> 00:21:04.382 we went down there a few times, to train their staff on just how to build pages. 00:21:04.422 --> 00:21:06.972 And they paid us a lot of money. 00:21:08.112 --> 00:21:10.222 They paid us a lot of money to just 00:21:10.317 --> 00:21:13.197 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Yeah, like corporate workshops kind 00:21:13.362 --> 00:21:15.442 Matt: And it was, and back then they were using like. 00:21:16.322 --> 00:21:20.322 WP bakery or whatever it was before that I can't remember the name of it page 00:21:20.322 --> 00:21:24.082 builder like before page builders were a thing it was like what they were building 00:21:24.082 --> 00:21:27.632 was just like a complete disaster but they wanted us to show them how to do it 00:21:27.642 --> 00:21:33.572 the way they had it and we did and we got paid really well for it so that's a thing 00:21:33.882 --> 00:21:37.832 and with the YouTube content like that's where because that's how I see my YouTube 00:21:37.832 --> 00:21:40.352 is is tutorials and education and then. 00:21:41.347 --> 00:21:44.467 The news product is for like the 1 percent of wordpressers. 00:21:44.677 --> 00:21:48.217 That's the sponsors of Pressable, Bluehost, you know, OmniSend. 00:21:48.507 --> 00:21:51.407 Those are the folks that really want to support that kind of content. 00:21:51.457 --> 00:21:55.257 And then on the YouTube side, it's how do I use this wordpress thing? 00:21:55.857 --> 00:21:58.567 And if I just land in front of the right folks who want to get educated, 00:21:59.037 --> 00:22:03.487 through one on one calls or a corporate environment, corporate environment 00:22:03.517 --> 00:22:05.677 with air quotes, that's something that's really interesting to me. 00:22:06.377 --> 00:22:08.937 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: yeah, I like that I could see that I 00:22:08.947 --> 00:22:10.187 guess that working well because it's 00:22:11.052 --> 00:22:12.422 Matt: And I need to figure out how to use Clarity 00:22:12.567 --> 00:22:13.227 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: be like a lead 00:22:13.462 --> 00:22:17.542 Matt: yeah, and I want to, my next step literally, right now I just have a Gravity 00:22:17.542 --> 00:22:21.242 Forms to, to book a time, I literally only have one call to action that went 00:22:21.242 --> 00:22:26.062 out the other day, but I want to set it up through, through Clarity Flow so that I, 00:22:26.342 --> 00:22:29.672 that I can serve more at scale, basically. 00:22:30.547 --> 00:22:30.977 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Totally. 00:22:31.627 --> 00:22:35.287 I mean, that's, I mean, not to promote my own product here, 00:22:35.287 --> 00:22:36.407 but I, but I will anyway. 00:22:37.337 --> 00:22:40.287 The, the, I mean, I use, I use it for asynchronous. 00:22:40.937 --> 00:22:43.767 What happens is I push almost everything to asynchronous. 00:22:44.442 --> 00:22:47.662 And because I'm right now, I'm doing a consulting project with a company. 00:22:48.542 --> 00:22:50.232 it's like a two week sprint. 00:22:50.302 --> 00:22:53.382 I've been doing these where it's two weeks and I help you strategize and 00:22:53.382 --> 00:22:57.862 plan a big new product or a big new feature in your product and, and I kick 00:22:57.862 --> 00:23:00.542 it off with a live call on on day one. 00:23:00.572 --> 00:23:03.722 But then the rest of the two weeks, it's just like all asynchronous. 00:23:04.742 --> 00:23:08.812 Like me going and thinking and writing stuff up a notion and then sending them a 00:23:08.812 --> 00:23:11.192 video on here's what I think about this. 00:23:11.222 --> 00:23:12.342 And here's some questions for you. 00:23:12.342 --> 00:23:13.532 And then they send it back to me. 00:23:13.532 --> 00:23:15.542 And then we go back and forth a sink. 00:23:15.542 --> 00:23:19.282 And I think what quickly happens is, they start to realize, 00:23:19.292 --> 00:23:20.882 I, and I firmly believe this. 00:23:20.882 --> 00:23:25.897 And I, and I think that clients see this pretty quickly is It's actually 00:23:25.907 --> 00:23:30.367 more useful, more productive, higher quality back and forth when it's 00:23:30.397 --> 00:23:35.417 async versus being live, like live is good for like a kickoff call. 00:23:35.507 --> 00:23:38.067 Maybe a welcome or maybe a sales call or something like that. 00:23:38.697 --> 00:23:41.747 But once you're in the engagement and you're getting it and you're digging 00:23:41.747 --> 00:23:48.397 into the details, the asynchronous aspect is it's not just that it's more 00:23:48.397 --> 00:23:55.107 convenient, it's It's, I have space to go think about it and prepare my thoughts 00:23:55.107 --> 00:24:00.787 and write up some notes and then send you a tight five minute thing of here, 00:24:01.467 --> 00:24:02.567 here, what do you think about this? 00:24:02.587 --> 00:24:06.497 And then they can go digest it, think about it, sleep on 00:24:06.497 --> 00:24:07.627 it and then come back to me. 00:24:07.947 --> 00:24:11.087 You know, like that's such a more productive way of going 00:24:11.087 --> 00:24:13.387 back and forth on the details. 00:24:13.427 --> 00:24:13.957 I find, 00:24:14.032 --> 00:24:17.562 Matt: Do you ever feel like, how do you bridge the, urgency gap? 00:24:17.562 --> 00:24:19.802 don't send me anything urgent through this. 00:24:20.802 --> 00:24:22.302 Like, how do you bridge that gap at all? 00:24:22.302 --> 00:24:23.232 Does that ever come up? 00:24:23.282 --> 00:24:25.742 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: well, in this engagement, yeah. 00:24:26.127 --> 00:24:30.887 And most of the engagements, it's like, we're working on one project, so it's 00:24:30.897 --> 00:24:35.357 not like I'm here to give you generalized support on whatever might come up. 00:24:35.697 --> 00:24:40.347 It's more like you brought me in to for 1 specific goal, and we're going to work on 00:24:40.537 --> 00:24:40.907 Matt: Got it. 00:24:41.397 --> 00:24:42.737 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: for 2 or 3 weeks. 00:24:42.807 --> 00:24:48.467 Um, so, so it's almost in both of our best interests to, let's take 00:24:48.467 --> 00:24:53.917 our time and think through to make every every video sort of count. 00:24:54.307 --> 00:24:57.247 Or every message sort of like, let's, let's move the 00:24:57.247 --> 00:24:58.657 ball forward toward our goal. 00:24:58.827 --> 00:25:01.617 At the end of this 2 weeks, we want to have a clear plan in 00:25:01.617 --> 00:25:02.717 place for what we're building. 00:25:03.307 --> 00:25:06.877 but I do, I do experience some of that, with my team, right now, I'm going back 00:25:06.877 --> 00:25:10.747 and forth with my assistant and trying to, this could be like, probably a whole 00:25:11.147 --> 00:25:14.567 other episode of this podcast is Trying to get her set up to be able to edit 00:25:14.567 --> 00:25:21.347 my videos on on my YouTube videos, but just the setup getting her to get access 00:25:21.347 --> 00:25:24.937 to the right Dropbox folder and sharing DaVinci Resolve projects and all this 00:25:25.197 --> 00:25:29.567 crap is literally, it's literally taking us like 2 weeks just to get her to be 00:25:29.617 --> 00:25:32.177 able to open up a project and edit it. 00:25:33.637 --> 00:25:37.207 and there's lots of fast, like, all right, wait, are you seeing this on your screen? 00:25:37.207 --> 00:25:38.397 I'm seeing it on my screen, like. 00:25:39.097 --> 00:25:42.267 You know, and we're in two completely different time zones, and she's on 00:25:42.267 --> 00:25:46.797 Windows, and I'm on Mac, and it's it's just been so that's where, throughout 00:25:46.807 --> 00:25:50.547 one day, we'll have a lot of fast back and forth messages on clarity flow, 00:25:51.027 --> 00:25:55.657 sometimes within within minutes or within an hour or so, but those are 00:25:55.657 --> 00:25:59.477 just like quick to teammates working together on something, you know, 00:25:59.717 --> 00:26:02.487 Matt: And you wanted to go just to, let me just bookend 00:26:02.607 --> 00:26:04.317 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: then, sometimes, even even then, 00:26:04.317 --> 00:26:07.137 it's like, it's still better than, hopping on a call, because, right, 00:26:07.187 --> 00:26:08.677 literally right now, as we speak. 00:26:09.362 --> 00:26:15.112 Me and Aaliyah are in the middle of trying to figure out this big technical problem. 00:26:15.842 --> 00:26:17.972 But at two o'clock, I had a call with you. 00:26:17.982 --> 00:26:20.712 So it's I probably have a message from her, waiting in my inbox now, 00:26:20.712 --> 00:26:21.992 and I'll get back to her later. 00:26:22.182 --> 00:26:24.032 You know, there's no urgency. 00:26:24.032 --> 00:26:29.662 It's just like we, we go back and forth every 15 minutes for a couple hours. 00:26:29.662 --> 00:26:31.822 And then and then 1 of us gets busy. 00:26:31.822 --> 00:26:34.502 Maybe she goes to dinner or I go into a call or something. 00:26:34.502 --> 00:26:39.262 And then and then, you know, then then suddenly there's like a delay and then 00:26:39.312 --> 00:26:40.342 and then we're kind of back at it. 00:26:40.372 --> 00:26:44.467 And it's, You know, and she's literally like on the other side of the world. 00:26:44.467 --> 00:26:47.817 So, we, we, we expect there's going to be like these random delays that 00:26:47.817 --> 00:26:50.387 come up and that's just part of the, part of the dynamic, you know? 00:26:50.932 --> 00:26:53.702 Matt: So, I'll bookend, that's, those are my updates, those are the things 00:26:53.702 --> 00:26:55.862 I'm, you know, I've gone through. 00:26:56.242 --> 00:27:01.322 We'll transition to you because we've buried the lead a bit about the 00:27:01.322 --> 00:27:03.042 limited series of breaking content. 00:27:03.822 --> 00:27:05.802 So, we'll transition to some of the stuff you're working on. 00:27:06.222 --> 00:27:07.552 But let me just throw a monkey wrench at you. 00:27:08.307 --> 00:27:11.097 Did you not want to use, I mean, I know you were heavily 00:27:11.097 --> 00:27:12.377 invested in DaVinci Resolve. 00:27:12.377 --> 00:27:17.297 You probably like it from like the effects and color grading workflow. 00:27:18.267 --> 00:27:21.677 But if you use an app like Descript, then you'd actually have native 00:27:21.677 --> 00:27:22.917 collaboration built right in. 00:27:22.917 --> 00:27:26.007 The file is just shared and she can edit. 00:27:26.827 --> 00:27:29.147 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I think she and I both have become really 00:27:29.147 --> 00:27:32.617 frustrated with Descript and we've stopped using it, even on podcasts. 00:27:33.577 --> 00:27:37.067 I think, I don't think it's great for, I know that it can do video 00:27:37.067 --> 00:27:40.237 and stuff, but it's not, it's not like a professional video editor, 00:27:40.357 --> 00:27:41.747 for YouTube videos and stuff. 00:27:41.797 --> 00:27:42.207 But then. 00:27:43.247 --> 00:27:47.017 I thought that I was going to use it for a while, but honestly, like 00:27:47.047 --> 00:27:48.627 Descript, I don't know how much I know. 00:27:48.637 --> 00:27:55.017 I know you're a big Descript guy, but I find it incredibly buggy and slow to to, 00:27:55.017 --> 00:28:00.007 open up and start projects to a point where it's it took so long to, load this, 00:28:00.007 --> 00:28:04.417 30 minute podcast conversation that that resulted in, shifting the whole time, 00:28:04.467 --> 00:28:08.082 the whole thing by By 20 seconds, and then that screwed up the whole thing. 00:28:08.082 --> 00:28:12.672 And then, I love it in theory, especially editing the text file 00:28:12.782 --> 00:28:14.592 edits the video or edits the audio. 00:28:14.592 --> 00:28:15.632 I love that concept. 00:28:15.672 --> 00:28:19.622 But, yeah, no, it's, it's just not going to work. 00:28:19.947 --> 00:28:23.497 Matt: Yeah, I mean it, you have to be really dialed in with knowing 00:28:23.497 --> 00:28:24.997 what you want out of Descript. 00:28:25.697 --> 00:28:27.097 and I am 100 percent there with you. 00:28:27.097 --> 00:28:31.817 Like it's not, you know, I did a pretty in depth edit for what I normally do for 00:28:31.817 --> 00:28:33.497 YouTube on DaVinci Resolve the other day. 00:28:34.117 --> 00:28:38.367 Tiles, transitions, sound effects, just operating the timeline alone 00:28:38.367 --> 00:28:42.387 in DaVinci Resolve is way faster and more efficient than Descript. 00:28:42.492 --> 00:28:43.602 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: and I got good with the 00:28:43.652 --> 00:28:43.982 Matt: Keyboard 00:28:44.237 --> 00:28:46.167 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I customized some keyboard shortcuts on 00:28:46.167 --> 00:28:48.997 the, on video editing in, in resolve. 00:28:48.997 --> 00:28:52.927 And then, and then I have some like text titles that fly in and some audio, some, 00:28:52.947 --> 00:28:56.817 some, some like audio effect, you know, whoosh sound effects and stuff like that. 00:28:56.857 --> 00:29:03.047 Um, um, you know, I, I did, I did start to look at like other options 00:29:03.047 --> 00:29:08.087 because I'm, I am finding it really difficult to share a project with 00:29:08.087 --> 00:29:09.897 an editor using DaVinci resolve. 00:29:10.087 --> 00:29:10.437 Matt: Yeah. 00:29:11.682 --> 00:29:15.102 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: and so they're on DaVinci Resolve 00:29:15.112 --> 00:29:20.692 version 18 and with the version 18, like their big new feature is this 00:29:20.692 --> 00:29:23.452 like cloud collaboration feature. 00:29:23.982 --> 00:29:26.702 It's like they're basically their version of what Descript has. 00:29:26.702 --> 00:29:29.852 It's like a supposed to be a pretty slick, like cloud based, like 00:29:30.292 --> 00:29:31.522 collaborate with other people. 00:29:32.222 --> 00:29:34.452 And I tried it out and it just did not work. 00:29:34.467 --> 00:29:39.477 Like the thing that that their demo thing is showing me like I'm trying 00:29:39.477 --> 00:29:43.947 it and no, it doesn't, it doesn't function the way that you it's just, 00:29:44.527 --> 00:29:50.067 it's a version one really more like a beta, cloud feature and I tried it. 00:29:50.147 --> 00:29:52.667 I banged my head against the desk and I was like, this is just not going to work. 00:29:52.667 --> 00:29:56.437 So instead, I'm still resorting to a Dropbox based 00:29:57.007 --> 00:29:58.967 approach to sharing projects. 00:29:59.712 --> 00:30:03.462 And that, too, has been a huge headache. 00:30:04.362 --> 00:30:08.462 yeah, like sharing the sharing the Dropbox folder and then DaVinci has 00:30:08.462 --> 00:30:12.002 its own sort of like project database system, which is like different from an 00:30:12.002 --> 00:30:13.842 actual folder on your on your computer. 00:30:13.842 --> 00:30:16.472 And yeah, it's a it's it's tough. 00:30:16.832 --> 00:30:19.022 And I actually had a tweet about this the other day. 00:30:19.022 --> 00:30:21.062 I was like, somebody should really. 00:30:21.592 --> 00:30:25.292 And I've I've seen all the YouTube videos that try to cover on how to, 00:30:25.342 --> 00:30:28.892 collaborate with a with a remote editor, and none of them really cover it well. 00:30:29.427 --> 00:30:32.647 And none of them get into the nuance that you have to figure out, but there are 00:30:32.647 --> 00:30:36.427 so many little problems, like somebody should come out with a course or a 00:30:36.427 --> 00:30:40.007 guide or a really good YouTube video on this, and it's not going to be me 00:30:40.017 --> 00:30:41.757 because we're having trouble with it. 00:30:42.197 --> 00:30:42.887 but the, 00:30:43.967 --> 00:30:44.497 Matt: Can't solve 00:30:44.577 --> 00:30:46.177 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: somebody should cover like how, 00:30:46.537 --> 00:30:51.467 because, because video editing, it's, it's easy to outsource anything, but 00:30:51.487 --> 00:30:56.277 video editing is especially difficult to outsource technically, you know, 00:30:56.277 --> 00:30:57.937 because, because the files are so big. 00:30:58.117 --> 00:30:59.547 Matt: I saw you tweeting about it the other day. 00:30:59.697 --> 00:31:00.967 Yeah, about finding one 00:31:01.062 --> 00:31:01.692 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: that's the thing. 00:31:01.692 --> 00:31:05.522 It's it's not just so and there's so many little problems with it because 00:31:05.522 --> 00:31:10.472 most, most remote video editors, they are freelancers, so they probably have their 00:31:10.522 --> 00:31:14.512 own Dropbox account and they've got other clients and they've got their own stuff. 00:31:15.552 --> 00:31:21.782 I have a Dropbox account and I need to be able to share this huge, each individual 00:31:22.312 --> 00:31:26.292 video project is going to have multiple gigabytes of media files to share. 00:31:26.292 --> 00:31:30.842 I got to make sure that, A, we could actually share the project and both access 00:31:30.842 --> 00:31:33.902 the project and I can go back into it and make more edits after she's done. 00:31:34.362 --> 00:31:38.052 But also, I need to make sure that I'm not going to, overload her computer 00:31:38.052 --> 00:31:39.612 and her storage with my stuff. 00:31:40.432 --> 00:31:44.642 And and she can't be paying for drop off. 00:31:44.682 --> 00:31:45.532 it's my project. 00:31:45.532 --> 00:31:47.512 So I need to be paying for all this story. 00:31:47.552 --> 00:31:48.282 Not her. 00:31:48.332 --> 00:31:49.472 it's just such a mess, you 00:31:49.617 --> 00:31:51.877 Matt: yeah, I mean, I think for freelancers, they're 00:31:51.877 --> 00:31:53.217 just dealing with raw files. 00:31:53.227 --> 00:31:54.107 So hey, Mr. 00:31:54.107 --> 00:31:54.367 Mrs. 00:31:54.367 --> 00:31:55.857 Customer, you just send me your footage. 00:31:56.127 --> 00:31:56.937 I do the rest. 00:31:56.967 --> 00:31:59.427 They're not, they're not trying to collaborate across a 00:31:59.427 --> 00:32:01.587 DaVinci project where you are. 00:32:01.587 --> 00:32:05.387 And that's really where probably the crux of this comes in. 00:32:06.087 --> 00:32:06.757 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: because that's the thing. 00:32:06.757 --> 00:32:09.727 That's what I want to do with with any video editor is like, 00:32:10.557 --> 00:32:13.037 I, I will give her the raw stuff. 00:32:13.582 --> 00:32:18.592 To start it off and then she will do all the all the cuts. 00:32:18.592 --> 00:32:23.992 That's like the most time consuming part is like cut like cut up like turn my 00:32:24.112 --> 00:32:27.712 25 minute footage of me sitting at the desk talking about something like cut 00:32:27.712 --> 00:32:33.352 it down to 8 minutes, you know, cut out all all my bad takes and and do all the 00:32:33.402 --> 00:32:35.762 all the cuts get that taken care of. 00:32:36.412 --> 00:32:39.322 And then, and then she can, put in the titles, but then I can go in at the end 00:32:39.322 --> 00:32:43.542 and maybe, we need a screencast to cover this part, or we need to, you know, 00:32:43.552 --> 00:32:44.842 or I need to make some final edits. 00:32:44.842 --> 00:32:47.512 I should be able to go into the project and, finish it up, you know. 00:32:48.212 --> 00:32:51.832 Matt: We have about 18, we have about 18 minutes left. 00:32:51.832 --> 00:32:53.002 I want to frame it up. 00:32:53.092 --> 00:32:57.192 This is going to be the last episode that we do. 00:32:58.122 --> 00:33:01.652 You messaged me and said, Hey, I don't think I have the bandwidth for this. 00:33:02.262 --> 00:33:03.782 We both, we both truly don't. 00:33:04.482 --> 00:33:06.032 We both truly don't. 00:33:06.522 --> 00:33:08.032 and you, you obviously have a lot going on. 00:33:08.032 --> 00:33:11.152 You have the software business, and then you have this new business. 00:33:11.692 --> 00:33:13.092 And you're doing a little bit of consulting. 00:33:14.222 --> 00:33:15.942 We've been doing this in one hour increments. 00:33:15.942 --> 00:33:18.092 We're going to let this episode go out, We've been doing it in one hour 00:33:18.092 --> 00:33:20.452 increments and then slicing it up into two episodes for the month. 00:33:20.762 --> 00:33:21.742 two thirty minute parts. 00:33:22.042 --> 00:33:25.642 We'll let this run as, the full episode through, through this episode. 00:33:26.207 --> 00:33:31.207 I'd imagine you did some, exploration, some internal thinking and said I've 00:33:31.217 --> 00:33:35.557 really got to dial in on the stuff that I have in front of me now so 00:33:35.557 --> 00:33:39.197 that you can be as successful as possible with those few things at hand. 00:33:39.567 --> 00:33:40.127 Fair statement? 00:33:40.827 --> 00:33:42.807 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I'm, I'm trying to do that there. 00:33:42.867 --> 00:33:44.547 There's still going to be. 00:33:44.597 --> 00:33:48.707 So I just came back from 2 trips, which are a big snow tiny comp. 00:33:48.947 --> 00:33:49.797 I call them. 00:33:49.887 --> 00:33:52.417 they're sort of like mastermind trips with with a lot with 00:33:52.457 --> 00:33:53.427 a bunch of founder friends. 00:33:53.427 --> 00:33:55.757 We go skiing and snowboarding and we talk about business and. 00:33:56.222 --> 00:34:00.322 It's a good like annual retreat where I spend some time and get 00:34:00.322 --> 00:34:03.132 feedback, but also do some thinking on what are the priorities? 00:34:03.232 --> 00:34:07.942 in some ways, like my priorities haven't changed a whole lot, but in other ways. 00:34:08.557 --> 00:34:09.457 They sort of are. 00:34:09.457 --> 00:34:16.217 So I am, I, I, I am still interested in growing my YouTube channel and, and 00:34:16.217 --> 00:34:18.587 doing more content this year for sure. 00:34:18.977 --> 00:34:22.827 But I think that before the trips, like in the, in the, during the, the previous 00:34:22.827 --> 00:34:27.347 episodes we were doing, I was much more, I was thinking more in the mindset 00:34:27.357 --> 00:34:34.017 of I'm going all in on this YouTube content, audience growth treadmill. 00:34:34.017 --> 00:34:36.067 And I'm committing to that for 2024. 00:34:36.487 --> 00:34:41.647 And, and now I'm backing off of that to say, I still want to do it, but it's 00:34:41.657 --> 00:34:44.357 just going to be more of a side hustle. 00:34:44.537 --> 00:34:46.827 alongside the, the businesses that I'm working on. 00:34:47.467 --> 00:34:52.127 Um, uh, but, but I, I'm talking about, one of the things that's enabling it 00:34:52.127 --> 00:34:57.717 to be a side thing is I'm outsourcing the editing, hopefully once we 00:34:57.717 --> 00:34:59.537 get that Dropbox shit figured out. 00:34:59.917 --> 00:35:00.597 but the, yeah. 00:35:01.297 --> 00:35:07.867 Once we get her set up for, for doing the editing, then I should, in theory, be 00:35:07.867 --> 00:35:16.157 able to once or twice a month sit down and write a script and create a video and send 00:35:16.157 --> 00:35:22.317 it off and maybe we can publish one or or two a month instead of One or two a week. 00:35:23.117 --> 00:35:24.107 so that's number one. 00:35:24.167 --> 00:35:27.797 but the, you know, I'm still spending roughly half of my 00:35:27.797 --> 00:35:30.127 time working on clarity flow. 00:35:30.747 --> 00:35:32.507 it's starting to tick up right now. 00:35:32.507 --> 00:35:36.097 And I just hired someone to work on customer success on clarity flow. 00:35:36.697 --> 00:35:38.567 that's like roughly half of my time. 00:35:38.567 --> 00:35:42.007 And then the other half is now I'm doing, a bit more 00:35:42.007 --> 00:35:44.672 consulting on product like, Okay. 00:35:45.252 --> 00:35:48.092 Building products for clients and consulting on product 00:35:48.092 --> 00:35:49.442 strategy with clients. 00:35:49.992 --> 00:35:56.382 Um, and, and I'm working on, like a, a new website to promote my consulting work. 00:35:56.472 --> 00:35:59.932 and, but I think that that's sort of a little bit ties in with the 00:35:59.942 --> 00:36:01.252 stuff that I want to do on YouTube. 00:36:01.322 --> 00:36:03.642 YouTube is still under the name of full stack founder. 00:36:03.642 --> 00:36:07.032 That's still about teaching people how to code, how to design, 00:36:07.032 --> 00:36:08.242 how to build your own products. 00:36:08.652 --> 00:36:11.822 I still want to sort of like water that plant a little bit 00:36:11.832 --> 00:36:13.752 and and keep those videos going. 00:36:13.752 --> 00:36:17.702 But I think that that could also generate some interest in working with me as a, 00:36:17.772 --> 00:36:19.952 as a product, builder product consultant 00:36:20.527 --> 00:36:23.457 Matt: Do you think you're getting more traction in the consultancy side now? 00:36:23.457 --> 00:36:25.507 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I wouldn't call it like a lot of traction. 00:36:25.507 --> 00:36:28.957 I have a couple of clients that I'm, I mean, I work with one at a time. 00:36:29.007 --> 00:36:32.667 I, I just wrapped up one and then I'm working on a second one right now. 00:36:33.697 --> 00:36:37.747 I'm I have two other ones that I'm talking to about starting 00:36:37.747 --> 00:36:39.957 up, in the next couple of weeks. 00:36:40.517 --> 00:36:44.557 Um, uh, and these are just through my personal network. 00:36:44.587 --> 00:36:48.717 These are mostly like friends in the industry who, who happened to need 00:36:48.757 --> 00:36:50.167 the type of help that I'm offering. 00:36:50.647 --> 00:36:52.857 and, so that's, that's a good start. 00:36:52.887 --> 00:36:57.697 I think, it's, it's nice, like having friends who run SAS companies who happened 00:36:57.697 --> 00:36:59.527 to have a need for some product work. 00:37:00.467 --> 00:37:05.597 but, what I'm actually working on right now, like today is, writing up 00:37:05.597 --> 00:37:12.157 a new, landing page to really promote this as like a consulting offer. 00:37:12.227 --> 00:37:16.297 Not really productized, but, but, kind of just writing it up in terms of 00:37:16.317 --> 00:37:21.257 trying to, you know, the sales pitch for why it makes sense to bring me in. 00:37:21.737 --> 00:37:25.077 and, and then I'll probably do more of an active effort to pass 00:37:25.077 --> 00:37:27.307 that out to more people who could. 00:37:27.867 --> 00:37:29.937 Generate some lead flow this year, you know, 00:37:30.187 --> 00:37:32.407 Matt: I was listening to your last episode with Jordan. 00:37:32.797 --> 00:37:38.827 And you were saying something about, like that slow growth that, that like 00:37:38.827 --> 00:37:42.547 any SaaS business, you know, is going to have, I forget how you framed it, or 00:37:42.547 --> 00:37:44.687 like a bootstrap person is going to have. 00:37:45.077 --> 00:37:49.587 I think you said something like growing clarity flow at this point 00:37:49.607 --> 00:37:54.677 is just going to take all these like bigger time consuming aside from you 00:37:54.677 --> 00:37:58.107 know, bringing in a bunch of cash and throwing it at like pay per click 00:37:58.107 --> 00:37:59.797 and just like injecting traffic. 00:38:00.252 --> 00:38:06.342 doing these slower moving, more organic content engagements, whether that's, 00:38:06.742 --> 00:38:09.882 you know, you host the pod, you have your podcast that points to clarity flow 00:38:09.882 --> 00:38:15.072 now, but you could be on more podcasts and guest appear on these podcasts. 00:38:15.092 --> 00:38:18.552 You could create more videos like, but all this stuff is a lot slower. 00:38:18.552 --> 00:38:21.342 It doesn't inject traffic right away. 00:38:21.902 --> 00:38:23.502 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: everything in clarity flow is slow. 00:38:24.152 --> 00:38:26.332 It's growing, but it's just slow. 00:38:26.772 --> 00:38:31.782 And I think, and I think that the, the big takeaway that I have going from 00:38:31.782 --> 00:38:38.842 2023 to 2024 is I tried to throw money at, at the marketing funnel machine. 00:38:38.852 --> 00:38:41.022 let's like, this thing basically works. 00:38:41.022 --> 00:38:43.862 We have customers who come and they really like it and they convert. 00:38:44.657 --> 00:38:48.007 We just need a lot more of them to come more frequently 00:38:48.047 --> 00:38:48.447 Matt: right? 00:38:48.447 --> 00:38:49.285 Yeah. 00:38:49.285 --> 00:38:50.123 Yeah. 00:38:50.777 --> 00:38:53.187 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: you should be able to like, spend dollars 00:38:53.187 --> 00:38:57.627 and get more customers, especially if you have a product that fits that 00:38:57.977 --> 00:39:02.647 honestly, I just don't believe that that is the case and there might be people 00:39:02.647 --> 00:39:06.177 listening who are just like, okay, Brian, you're just bad at marketing. 00:39:06.177 --> 00:39:08.207 And there's probably a lot of truth to that. 00:39:08.577 --> 00:39:18.687 But I have a, I don't know, like a working theory that In 2024, you can't just spend 00:39:18.707 --> 00:39:26.887 money and generate more demand if it's, if it's not there naturally, you can't like, 00:39:26.957 --> 00:39:29.957 buy your way to a distribution channel. 00:39:30.487 --> 00:39:33.157 There's a lot of companies who do really well because they have a 00:39:33.167 --> 00:39:34.657 really good distribution channel. 00:39:35.197 --> 00:39:38.777 You know, maybe they started off with a huge audience, or maybe they, 00:39:39.187 --> 00:39:42.417 they're plugged into some app store that's sending them a lot of traffic. 00:39:42.802 --> 00:39:47.232 Or they have a really key, close integration partnership, and that's 00:39:47.232 --> 00:39:49.182 been really, beneficial for them. 00:39:49.632 --> 00:39:53.782 but if you don't, if you don't have one of those, inroads or one of those, built 00:39:53.782 --> 00:40:00.187 in advantages, I just, the only other way to grow fast, I think, would be if, if, 00:40:00.537 --> 00:40:07.647 if the world happens to be throwing a huge wave of demand at you, if right now you 00:40:07.647 --> 00:40:12.727 just have the type of product where there is just a sudden surge in, in demand. 00:40:12.737 --> 00:40:16.307 I mean, I think WordPress saw this maybe 5 or 10 years ago, where, 00:40:16.367 --> 00:40:20.067 where it's just like every year there are millions and millions of more 00:40:20.067 --> 00:40:22.067 people building WordPress sites. 00:40:22.087 --> 00:40:25.617 And It just floated like every, every WordPress company just 00:40:25.627 --> 00:40:29.537 felt this wave of demand, give them a rush of momentum, right? 00:40:30.087 --> 00:40:33.127 that's the kind of thing that, that, so it's either you have this distribution 00:40:33.127 --> 00:40:38.387 channel or you have this unusually high demand for your, for your thing. 00:40:38.907 --> 00:40:43.047 But if you're in like the other 90 percent of startups that that don't 00:40:43.057 --> 00:40:47.657 have this distribution channel and yeah, there's I see demand for clarity flow. 00:40:47.657 --> 00:40:53.117 We literally get, you know, hundreds of signups a month and, and, and, and 00:40:53.117 --> 00:40:57.417 like a lot of them convert into paying customers, but we're doing things 00:40:57.417 --> 00:41:01.117 that just slowly inch that up month after month, but it's, it's not going 00:41:01.117 --> 00:41:03.477 to see a hockey stick growth in 2024. 00:41:03.477 --> 00:41:06.452 It's just not, you know, so like the only thing that actually, Okay. 00:41:06.452 --> 00:41:10.787 And then I spent a lot of time looking at like Where do our 00:41:10.787 --> 00:41:12.137 actual customers come from? 00:41:12.697 --> 00:41:13.027 Right? 00:41:14.087 --> 00:41:18.747 we, you know, we get people googling like googling for like 00:41:18.757 --> 00:41:22.127 asynchronous coaching or asynchronous communication and stuff like that. 00:41:22.127 --> 00:41:23.757 And that that leads to our homepage. 00:41:23.757 --> 00:41:25.877 that's one chunk of our customers. 00:41:25.877 --> 00:41:29.397 And then the other big chunk is like literally just coaches talking about it. 00:41:29.397 --> 00:41:30.803 They word of mouth. 00:41:30.803 --> 00:41:33.097 They tell they tell other coaches about it. 00:41:33.702 --> 00:41:36.722 Or there's sort of a viral loop, like they see it from another coach. 00:41:37.962 --> 00:41:39.662 I spent thousands on pay per click. 00:41:40.652 --> 00:41:41.592 It drove no customers. 00:41:41.642 --> 00:41:46.392 I, I spend, I do some cold email outreach that sort of works a little bit. 00:41:46.392 --> 00:41:48.512 It adds a handful of more customers a month. 00:41:48.532 --> 00:41:49.412 It's not huge. 00:41:49.832 --> 00:41:53.132 and then, and I've, I've, I've done pay per click. 00:41:53.132 --> 00:41:54.302 I've done integrations. 00:41:54.322 --> 00:41:56.042 I've done, we have an affiliate program. 00:41:56.602 --> 00:41:59.932 I've, I've paid for sponsorships, like I've done all these things 00:42:00.132 --> 00:42:04.042 and nothing moves the needle, like just plain old word of mouth. 00:42:04.712 --> 00:42:06.532 You know, like somebody using the product. 00:42:06.572 --> 00:42:07.082 They like it. 00:42:07.082 --> 00:42:07.732 They tell someone 00:42:07.802 --> 00:42:08.082 Matt: Yeah. 00:42:08.532 --> 00:42:11.442 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: and so that's the only thing that we 00:42:11.442 --> 00:42:14.902 can do at this point is I keep making the product better and keep helping 00:42:14.902 --> 00:42:16.472 customers be successful with the product. 00:42:16.502 --> 00:42:19.512 And so that's that's the only investment that I made in clarity for this year 00:42:19.522 --> 00:42:21.892 is hiring a customer success person. 00:42:21.962 --> 00:42:23.462 And she's just starting up right now. 00:42:24.052 --> 00:42:29.382 And, and the idea is to have her give more personalized attention to every customer 00:42:29.382 --> 00:42:31.462 who comes in, that I'm able to give. 00:42:32.642 --> 00:42:35.742 And that should that should have the effect of. 00:42:36.397 --> 00:42:40.657 Improving our conversion rate, like converting more trials to customers and 00:42:41.407 --> 00:42:45.887 because they get better help, they are, they stay, they stay around a lot longer. 00:42:45.887 --> 00:42:49.277 So that reduces churn rate and because they had such a great 00:42:49.277 --> 00:42:54.577 experience, they will tell their people more readily than they do now. 00:42:54.607 --> 00:42:58.177 And that should, that should help, you know, grow it a little bit. 00:42:58.197 --> 00:43:04.852 But I'm sort of done with Spending big on these like big funnel experiments that are 00:43:04.852 --> 00:43:06.782 going to grow the top of funnel, you know, 00:43:06.882 --> 00:43:09.792 Matt: I mean, from the out, I think when people listen, you know, even when 00:43:09.792 --> 00:43:12.962 I'm listening to your other podcasts, it almost sounds Don't take this the 00:43:12.962 --> 00:43:17.742 wrong way, but it sounds like you're almost like, it feels like it just, just 00:43:17.762 --> 00:43:21.802 that the, I'm going to give up on like putting all of my effort into this, but 00:43:21.802 --> 00:43:23.642 then I'm getting email updates from you. 00:43:23.642 --> 00:43:25.452 You're, you're launching new features. 00:43:26.062 --> 00:43:29.632 And I think, you know, for the folks listening to this, who also follow 00:43:29.632 --> 00:43:32.492 Brian's stuff, on his other channels is. 00:43:33.182 --> 00:43:37.402 Hey, it's a, it's, it's just a more organic way of growing this product. 00:43:37.442 --> 00:43:41.622 I think I see this a lot more in the WordPress space where people are 00:43:41.622 --> 00:43:44.782 launching plugins, but they're still doing their services like they still 00:43:44.782 --> 00:43:50.132 have, like they still plug in service and there's a, there's a fine balance there. 00:43:50.132 --> 00:43:51.692 And I think, you know, to 00:43:51.827 --> 00:43:52.887 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I think you're right about that. 00:43:53.422 --> 00:43:53.682 Matt: yeah, 00:43:53.957 --> 00:43:55.357 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I think you're I think you're reading 00:43:55.357 --> 00:43:59.827 it correctly and I and I it's it's I'm not giving up on clarity flow. 00:43:59.917 --> 00:44:02.367 Like I said, I just hired somebody to work on clarity flow and 00:44:02.367 --> 00:44:04.287 I still have a developer who works on it every single day. 00:44:04.517 --> 00:44:05.607 And I work on it every day, 00:44:05.717 --> 00:44:07.274 Matt: yeah, right. 00:44:07.907 --> 00:44:10.477 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: in 2024, it has come to a point 00:44:10.477 --> 00:44:13.947 where I, I can't give it 100 percent of my hours anymore. 00:44:14.347 --> 00:44:16.657 I, it, it just, I can't afford to do that. 00:44:16.707 --> 00:44:18.517 It doesn't, it doesn't pay for that. 00:44:19.887 --> 00:44:26.427 so I've come to the conclusion that, this is how that business survives is if. 00:44:26.847 --> 00:44:33.337 If, if I can still give it some resources and, and I have to do, I have to be 00:44:33.337 --> 00:44:37.287 working on other things that can not only just generate income, but I'm trying to 00:44:37.297 --> 00:44:41.097 build other stuff, like other assets, like the YouTube channel and stuff like that. 00:44:41.547 --> 00:44:46.427 Um, you know, and that's the hard thing about having a podcast and being 00:44:46.427 --> 00:44:50.657 public about stuff is that, I think, I think most listeners, even I, I 00:44:50.657 --> 00:44:54.167 love my listeners, but I, and, and it's just the nature of the medium. 00:44:55.007 --> 00:44:58.797 It has this effect of making things sound like bigger than 00:44:58.797 --> 00:45:00.757 they actually are like businesses. 00:45:01.307 --> 00:45:06.347 and also, it's almost if I'm talking about my business clarity flow or 00:45:06.347 --> 00:45:11.577 whatever it is, it's just, just the act of talking about it makes it sound 00:45:11.577 --> 00:45:15.567 like I'm 100 percent all in on this thing or, or if I'm talking about 00:45:15.567 --> 00:45:18.827 something else, it's oh, then I must not be touching clarity flow at all. 00:45:19.377 --> 00:45:20.647 But there's a lot more nuance to it. 00:45:20.647 --> 00:45:23.867 I'm literally spending half my hours on one thing and half my hours on another. 00:45:25.157 --> 00:45:29.227 and it's that's hard to come across in a, you know, because people like 00:45:29.227 --> 00:45:32.247 to hear people tune into the podcast because they're hoping to hear like 00:45:32.727 --> 00:45:35.837 a story and a, and a rocket ship that starts on the ground and then, and 00:45:36.017 --> 00:45:37.217 then it keeps going up and up and up. 00:45:37.227 --> 00:45:39.997 But that's not reality, you know? 00:45:40.007 --> 00:45:40.377 Matt: yeah, yeah. 00:45:40.407 --> 00:45:44.217 And it's hard for people to, you know, you know, I listen to it, well, because 00:45:44.217 --> 00:45:47.657 I've been listening to you guys for, you know, forever, and, you know, same 00:45:47.657 --> 00:45:51.207 thing, like the story, and, like to just hear you guys talk about stuff. 00:45:52.072 --> 00:45:54.692 And, but I think there might be a, just a healthy set of other folks who 00:45:54.692 --> 00:45:57.502 are listening, okay, when they run into that problem, how do I solve it 00:45:57.502 --> 00:46:01.452 on, on my side, they did a thing in marketing, how can I do it on, on my side? 00:46:01.912 --> 00:46:05.552 you know, and I think that, you know, that's, that's the benefit that 00:46:05.692 --> 00:46:08.702 the audience gets from, you know, listening to both of your experiences. 00:46:09.632 --> 00:46:10.112 Full stack, 00:46:10.177 --> 00:46:11.867 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I, I, yeah, sorry, go 00:46:11.872 --> 00:46:14.212 Matt: was going to say full stack and full stack founder, like you were 00:46:14.212 --> 00:46:17.762 thinking, all right, I might back at end of 2023, you might be thinking, 00:46:17.762 --> 00:46:19.372 okay, I'm going to go all in with this. 00:46:19.372 --> 00:46:19.932 This will be the. 00:46:20.347 --> 00:46:25.827 The product, a new product, a new stream, but maybe now that 00:46:25.827 --> 00:46:27.677 one gets slid to the side a bit. 00:46:27.687 --> 00:46:31.297 Maybe that only takes 20 percent of your effort and consulting 00:46:31.342 --> 00:46:33.802 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Yeah, because I think, I think that 00:46:33.812 --> 00:46:39.192 the, the conclusion that I came to more recently is, that's fine to do some 00:46:39.192 --> 00:46:43.012 YouTube stuff, but it's not going to pay the bills anytime soon, you know, 00:46:43.152 --> 00:46:49.312 the thing that does pay the bills faster is consulting work and, I thought that 00:46:49.312 --> 00:46:53.082 I, because I thought that I was going to do more, more like coaching work. 00:46:53.092 --> 00:46:56.212 And I, I had started to do that in like December and January. 00:46:57.767 --> 00:47:02.347 but I, I didn't find the coaching to be very effective or, or like 00:47:02.347 --> 00:47:04.087 kind of a good use of my time. 00:47:04.177 --> 00:47:10.747 so I actually shut that down to in favor of more traditional, like consulting work. 00:47:11.037 --> 00:47:13.927 And now the consulting that I'm doing is sort of 2 flavors. 00:47:13.957 --> 00:47:19.797 1 is Me being an advisor on your product, you can, it's sort of looks like 00:47:19.817 --> 00:47:21.447 coaching, but it's, it's deeper than that. 00:47:21.507 --> 00:47:25.607 I am diving into the detailed planning and strategic road 00:47:25.607 --> 00:47:26.837 mapping of, of your product. 00:47:27.367 --> 00:47:32.587 and then the other one is actually built, more longer term, multi month engagements 00:47:32.587 --> 00:47:37.297 to, to have me and my small team, actually build a product for, for you. 00:47:37.857 --> 00:47:43.297 Um, uh, that's, so, so there's a, those are like the two things that I'm, that 00:47:43.297 --> 00:47:47.287 I'm kind of building out in terms of I think that's something that especially 00:47:47.287 --> 00:47:51.347 the build like the building products as a service type of thing that that 00:47:51.347 --> 00:47:55.957 could that is the potential to turn into an agency model, down the road. 00:47:55.957 --> 00:47:58.997 I would say in the short term is more like me consulting. 00:47:59.077 --> 00:48:04.547 Um, uh, so it's a way to, bring in, a decent income. 00:48:04.557 --> 00:48:08.337 It's still me building products, which I love to do. 00:48:08.337 --> 00:48:11.587 That's that's where I think I add the most value is. 00:48:12.062 --> 00:48:14.392 Either advising on product or building products, 00:48:15.092 --> 00:48:17.082 Matt: And you get to use, you get to use your own product like 00:48:17.092 --> 00:48:18.632 while, while you're helping people. 00:48:18.632 --> 00:48:20.912 Yeah. 00:48:21.022 --> 00:48:21.702 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I consult with 00:48:21.972 --> 00:48:22.282 Matt: Yeah. 00:48:22.562 --> 00:48:24.952 So I mean like they could start using it for their own teams or 00:48:24.952 --> 00:48:26.092 like their own customers, right? 00:48:26.092 --> 00:48:29.662 So there's, there is a little bit of a cool opportunity there to be like, 00:48:30.122 --> 00:48:32.272 I communicate on this product and. 00:48:32.692 --> 00:48:35.842 You can have it too, you know, if you want, you know, if 00:48:35.842 --> 00:48:36.902 you want to engage your own, 00:48:37.502 --> 00:48:37.712 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Yeah. 00:48:37.712 --> 00:48:38.502 There's a little bit of that. 00:48:38.602 --> 00:48:41.002 It's, it's, it's nice to dog food it a little bit. 00:48:41.722 --> 00:48:42.222 Matt: Cool, man. 00:48:43.412 --> 00:48:46.242 Anything else, that you're looking forward to for the for the rest of the year? 00:48:46.242 --> 00:48:47.952 Any other big goal that you came up with on 00:48:48.322 --> 00:48:49.332 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I mean, I know that the theme 00:48:49.332 --> 00:48:52.582 of this podcast is about content and I, I really do. 00:48:52.672 --> 00:48:54.602 I, I don't, I don't want to give up on. 00:48:54.602 --> 00:48:58.742 I, I feel like I have, I published four videos on my YouTube channel. 00:48:59.072 --> 00:49:01.872 I have a fifth one that I recorded a couple of weeks ago and that's 00:49:01.872 --> 00:49:02.972 going to be the first one that. 00:49:02.972 --> 00:49:03.027 Yeah. 00:49:03.027 --> 00:49:08.547 My assistant will edit for me and but that's been waiting for 00:49:08.547 --> 00:49:10.187 her to get set up as the editor. 00:49:10.957 --> 00:49:15.287 so that's why there's been like such a delay and like I published the first four. 00:49:15.587 --> 00:49:18.857 I have a fifth that's just been waiting and waiting before for her 00:49:18.857 --> 00:49:22.507 to figure out this and for her and I to figure out the editing set up. 00:49:23.027 --> 00:49:25.897 but what I want to do going forward is like. 00:49:26.597 --> 00:49:28.437 Whenever I have a free week, yeah, right. 00:49:28.437 --> 00:49:29.527 I never have any free weeks. 00:49:29.587 --> 00:49:33.907 But I want to start to be able to record more videos and just put them 00:49:33.907 --> 00:49:35.617 into Dropbox and have her edit them. 00:49:35.617 --> 00:49:38.437 And then hopefully in the next couple of weeks and months, I'll 00:49:38.437 --> 00:49:44.697 get back into the swing of having a regular cadence of new videos. 00:49:44.747 --> 00:49:49.317 I will say the other thing about it is like by by taking a 00:49:49.317 --> 00:49:51.217 step back on the YouTube stuff. 00:49:51.257 --> 00:49:52.647 and the full stack founder stuff. 00:49:53.347 --> 00:49:54.907 I'm also removing some pressure. 00:49:54.907 --> 00:49:58.497 I thought that, I had to build that up as quickly as possible 00:49:58.497 --> 00:50:01.127 to get to a point where I could start to sell courses through it. 00:50:01.777 --> 00:50:06.607 And so my, my thought in the, in the early videos was like, let me be the teacher. 00:50:06.657 --> 00:50:09.187 Let me show you, let me teach you how to learn how to code. 00:50:09.587 --> 00:50:13.947 Step by step and, I still might do an educational course at some point, but 00:50:13.957 --> 00:50:18.437 now it's I don't like I could just maybe publish more like opinion based 00:50:18.667 --> 00:50:24.087 content, you know, or just thought pieces about my philosophy on products 00:50:24.277 --> 00:50:28.497 or my philosophy on building stuff or design patterns and stuff like that. 00:50:29.062 --> 00:50:33.172 and let's just see where, where that stuff goes, because it's just a side hustle. 00:50:33.172 --> 00:50:37.682 It's just something that I'm doing to hopefully grow an audience. 00:50:38.202 --> 00:50:40.532 the, the stuff that will make money is the consulting work 00:50:40.542 --> 00:50:42.122 and, and growing clarity flow. 00:50:42.642 --> 00:50:47.362 So it's like by, by not needing YouTube to necessarily make money. 00:50:47.482 --> 00:50:51.482 I can just, kind of just go, go wherever the content or the inspiration 00:50:51.502 --> 00:50:54.722 takes me rather than trying to Feel like I have to teach a curriculum, 00:50:54.897 --> 00:50:55.787 Matt: yeah, yeah. 00:50:55.787 --> 00:50:58.967 And you're, and like what you did with the podcast or do with the podcast, it's just 00:50:58.967 --> 00:51:01.537 increasing that surface luck area, right? 00:51:01.537 --> 00:51:04.627 Stuff, the term that we've, we've known for a while now is like, the more you're 00:51:04.632 --> 00:51:09.147 putting it out there, if you can lessen that production overhead, you know, 00:51:09.147 --> 00:51:12.777 once you get your editors aligned and everything, then there's less of all 00:51:12.782 --> 00:51:16.587 that cognitive load, and then you can get those opinion pieces out faster. 00:51:16.932 --> 00:51:18.522 you're just increasing that awareness, right? 00:51:18.522 --> 00:51:19.932 And at the end of the day, I think that's going to unlock 00:51:19.932 --> 00:51:21.032 some more opportunity for you. 00:51:21.732 --> 00:51:22.042 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: that's the 00:51:22.312 --> 00:51:23.302 Matt: Fantastic stuff! 00:51:23.912 --> 00:51:25.742 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: I, you know, I, I didn't expect to have 00:51:25.742 --> 00:51:29.332 to cut my side of this podcast, short. 00:51:29.332 --> 00:51:32.712 So, so quickly, but I don't know what your plans are for this thing, 00:51:32.712 --> 00:51:37.032 but I think it would be cool, to get like another, to have maybe seasons 00:51:37.032 --> 00:51:40.542 where you have, it's like you plus a different person each season. 00:51:41.192 --> 00:51:44.442 You know, a different person who's, who's, who's breaking content, if you 00:51:44.442 --> 00:51:47.062 will, right, you know, bring someone else in who's either just starting 00:51:47.062 --> 00:51:49.582 up or they're, or they're in the swing of things with their content. 00:51:49.582 --> 00:51:51.942 And you do a, a string of episodes with them. 00:51:52.042 --> 00:51:52.302 Matt: We've, 00:51:52.352 --> 00:51:52.962 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Is that, is that what 00:51:52.962 --> 00:51:53.952 you had in mind for this 00:51:53.982 --> 00:51:56.352 Matt: We successfully broke Fullstack Founder. 00:51:57.362 --> 00:51:57.522 no. 00:51:57.522 --> 00:52:03.632 no, I mean it It wasn't, it literally was like, was to really just tell your story 00:52:03.632 --> 00:52:09.182 of getting that, that off the ground and, and also at the same time, like showing 00:52:09.182 --> 00:52:11.492 like where I'm at with creating content. 00:52:11.502 --> 00:52:16.542 But I think where, I think that's what I'll do next is just kind of see if anyone 00:52:16.592 --> 00:52:19.402 else wants to co host and really share. 00:52:19.892 --> 00:52:23.042 As intimately as we both have, for the last couple of months. 00:52:23.682 --> 00:52:27.922 And, yeah, maybe we turn it into many seasons and whatever, pressure point 00:52:27.932 --> 00:52:31.592 somebody's dealing with with their content creation journey at that time 00:52:31.592 --> 00:52:33.832 will be the bookend to that season. 00:52:34.082 --> 00:52:34.322 Right? 00:52:34.322 --> 00:52:37.042 Instead of infinity, it's just one thing at a time. 00:52:37.742 --> 00:52:38.352 enhanced_brian_1_02-15-2024_140342_#3: Yeah, for sure.