WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-GB 00:00:08.216 --> 00:00:09.551 I'm Travis Bader 00:00:09.551 --> 00:00:12.387 and this is the Silvercore podcast. 00:00:13.847 --> 00:00:15.515 Silvercore has been providing 00:00:15.515 --> 00:00:20.270 its members with the skills and knowledge necessary to be confident and proficient 00:00:20.270 --> 00:00:23.732 in the outdoors for over 20 years, and we make it easier 00:00:23.732 --> 00:00:26.693 for people to deepen their connection to the natural world. 00:00:27.610 --> 00:00:31.156 If you enjoy the positive and educational content we provide, 00:00:31.614 --> 00:00:36.036 please let others know by sharing, commenting and following 00:00:36.369 --> 00:00:39.581 so that you can join in on everything that Silvercore stands for. 00:00:40.582 --> 00:00:43.668 If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the Silvercore 00:00:43.710 --> 00:00:48.673 Club and Community, visit our website at Silvercore.ca 00:00:51.384 --> 00:00:53.595 Today, I'm joined by the renowned conservationist, 00:00:53.762 --> 00:00:56.639 host of the massively popular Wired to Hunt podcast, 00:00:57.057 --> 00:01:01.519 author, angler, hunter and Resident Whitetail guide at Meat Eater. 00:01:01.686 --> 00:01:03.563 Welcome to the Silvercore podcast. 00:01:03.563 --> 00:01:05.940 Mark Kenyon. Hey, thank you, Travis. 00:01:05.940 --> 00:01:06.566 I appreciate it. 00:01:06.566 --> 00:01:07.358 Glad to be here. 00:01:07.358 --> 00:01:09.778 absolutely well took me a little bit. 00:01:09.778 --> 00:01:10.945 to get through that intro there. 00:01:10.945 --> 00:01:12.822 But we got there. Yes. 00:01:12.822 --> 00:01:17.368 So you've got a reputation, a reputation of being a hard working whitetail hunter, 00:01:17.911 --> 00:01:22.582 but you also have a reputation which precedes you that 00:01:24.084 --> 00:01:26.127 you might be aware of or you might not be. 00:01:26.294 --> 00:01:30.715 I was having sitting by the campfire waiting for the lamb to roast up 00:01:30.715 --> 00:01:34.385 we’re having dinner with a friend of mine who has worked with you in the past. 00:01:34.385 --> 00:01:38.348 And unsolicited, she brings up you 00:01:38.389 --> 00:01:42.352 and she says that you are genuine 00:01:42.352 --> 00:01:45.438 and that you're kind, that you're modest and you're professional. 00:01:45.772 --> 00:01:47.023 And those are the four things 00:01:47.023 --> 00:01:50.944 that really stuck out in my mind, completely unsolicited. 00:01:51.027 --> 00:01:52.821 And I thought, This is really cool. 00:01:52.821 --> 00:01:56.866 Coming from an industry where, you know, I've done chats 00:01:56.866 --> 00:01:59.953 before with people and they talk about ego in the industry, 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:04.707 particularly when it comes to social media and trying to 00:02:04.707 --> 00:02:07.544 I guess you have to promote yourself and promote a business 00:02:07.919 --> 00:02:10.296 for you to be able to navigate that terrain 00:02:10.713 --> 00:02:15.635 and still go through with the reputation of being modest and kind and genuine. 00:02:15.885 --> 00:02:19.556 That was what really intrigued me, what made me want to chat with you. 00:02:21.224 --> 00:02:22.809 I don't know if you've heard that before. 00:02:22.809 --> 00:02:24.811 Chances are you probably have. 00:02:24.811 --> 00:02:28.940 Well, I really I really appreciate that. 00:02:29.190 --> 00:02:32.026 And and hearing that kind of feedback is is 00:02:33.027 --> 00:02:37.657 maybe the best thing I could ask for as far as a reputation precedes me. 00:02:37.657 --> 00:02:39.409 Because those things are really important to me. 00:02:39.409 --> 00:02:41.536 Those are things that that matter to me. 00:02:41.536 --> 00:02:44.122 And I'm glad that that's, 00:02:44.247 --> 00:02:47.709 you know, how people are perceiving 00:02:47.709 --> 00:02:49.252 what I bring to the world. 00:02:49.252 --> 00:02:53.464 I guess it is a pet peeve of mine seeing so much 00:02:53.464 --> 00:02:57.177 of that ego and bravado and 00:02:57.802 --> 00:03:01.472 yeah, there is a lot of that in the world in general and within our community. 00:03:01.514 --> 00:03:04.517 I think in our community there's definitely a lot of opportunities 00:03:04.517 --> 00:03:05.268 for that. 00:03:05.268 --> 00:03:09.731 And and so I try to avoid that kind of stuff and just 00:03:11.983 --> 00:03:13.109 heck, I don't know. 00:03:13.109 --> 00:03:14.819 It's hard talking about yourself, isn't it? 00:03:14.819 --> 00:03:16.529 Yeah, Yeah, it always is. 00:03:16.529 --> 00:03:19.699 But, but yeah, that was really kind of her to say that. 00:03:19.699 --> 00:03:23.494 And I'm going to try to keep on living up to that reputation, 00:03:23.494 --> 00:03:25.788 and that's maybe the best thing I could do. 00:03:26.623 --> 00:03:27.415 Well, 00:03:28.291 --> 00:03:32.587 when you look at a person like who's really in the public eye. 00:03:32.587 --> 00:03:35.840 So Bear Grylls, I've read a few of his books 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:39.260 and he talks about there's Bear and there's B.G., 00:03:39.552 --> 00:03:44.474 there's the Internet persona or the TV persona, the action hero B.G, 00:03:45.350 --> 00:03:49.020 which is built up by others, not necessarily himself. 00:03:49.604 --> 00:03:52.565 And then there's Bear the person at home with his family doing his thing. 00:03:53.274 --> 00:03:58.529 And I get the sense that you probably run into a similar thing 00:03:58.529 --> 00:04:01.908 where others will will portray you in a certain way. 00:04:01.908 --> 00:04:06.162 But the difference between the M.K and the mark 00:04:06.162 --> 00:04:09.916 are probably a little bit more level, like what you see on TV, what you see on 00:04:09.916 --> 00:04:14.295 social media is probably pretty akin to how you are. 00:04:14.754 --> 00:04:17.090 Yeah, you're spot on. That actually is. 00:04:17.799 --> 00:04:21.803 I think maybe that's different for me compared to a lot of folks 00:04:21.803 --> 00:04:24.806 within the the public media space. 00:04:24.806 --> 00:04:26.307 But I think what has 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.353 maybe what has separated me in some regards 00:04:30.353 --> 00:04:33.564 from others within the outdoor media space is that 00:04:34.107 --> 00:04:37.026 I don't have some superhero persona that I can put on. 00:04:37.026 --> 00:04:39.988 I don't have a Superman cape I can throw on and impress people. 00:04:39.988 --> 00:04:41.572 I'm not 00:04:41.614 --> 00:04:44.742 you know, there's I've seen a couple of different ways 00:04:45.034 --> 00:04:49.372 to establish a voice and credibility within the world 00:04:49.372 --> 00:04:52.458 of, you know, outdoor media or probably any kind of media. 00:04:52.458 --> 00:04:53.960 But there's this like the expert. 00:04:53.960 --> 00:04:58.339 There's like the expert guy or girl who's like, amazing at everything. 00:04:58.339 --> 00:04:59.215 They're good at everything. 00:04:59.215 --> 00:05:01.342 They know everything 00:05:01.467 --> 00:05:03.845 and they wow you with how great they are. 00:05:05.263 --> 00:05:08.016 And when I came into this, I came into this 00:05:08.016 --> 00:05:11.477 with no, you know, leg to stand on within that world. 00:05:11.477 --> 00:05:13.730 Because 15 years ago when I started doing this kind of stuff, 00:05:13.730 --> 00:05:16.941 I was just a kid who was in love with this lifestyle. 00:05:16.941 --> 00:05:17.525 I loved it. 00:05:17.525 --> 00:05:18.484 I lived it. 00:05:18.484 --> 00:05:20.194 It was everything I thought about. 00:05:20.194 --> 00:05:21.571 But I wasn't an expert. 00:05:21.571 --> 00:05:23.364 I was just someone with a 00:05:23.364 --> 00:05:26.993 with passion oozing from from every single crack and seam. 00:05:27.410 --> 00:05:31.289 And so what I brought to the table 15 years ago and what I've realized is 00:05:31.289 --> 00:05:38.004 all I really can bring to the table is the very real story of my experiences 00:05:38.212 --> 00:05:43.009 chasing these passions and my unending curiosity to learn more. 00:05:43.968 --> 00:05:49.766 So yeah, like what you see on TV is 100% the same person that my wife sees, 00:05:49.766 --> 00:05:54.228 you know, in the evening, because I'm not I can't impress anyone. 00:05:54.228 --> 00:05:55.605 I'm just who I am. 00:05:55.605 --> 00:06:00.109 I'm just a goofy, lanky guy who's a nerd, who has a lot of books 00:06:00.109 --> 00:06:03.363 behind me, who loves to read, who loves to learn, who's who, 00:06:03.363 --> 00:06:07.200 who loves the outdoors, and who would do anything he could do to 00:06:07.283 --> 00:06:11.037 to to keep them around for future generations and for my kids. 00:06:11.037 --> 00:06:12.121 And I'm a goober. 00:06:12.121 --> 00:06:16.918 And I you know, I that's just that's all I can do. 00:06:17.001 --> 00:06:21.964 I've tried at times in my career or I've felt pressure to try to 00:06:22.382 --> 00:06:24.217 you know, I felt like I had to be like this person 00:06:24.217 --> 00:06:26.969 or that person. I'd see someone who was a role model of mine 00:06:26.969 --> 00:06:30.056 or I'd see somebody who's doing well and in this thing or that thing. 00:06:30.056 --> 00:06:30.681 And I think, Oh, 00:06:30.681 --> 00:06:34.352 I need to be more like that if I want to succeed or achieve my goals. 00:06:34.852 --> 00:06:38.773 And every time I've tried to do that, I fall on my face. 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:39.816 That doesn't 00:06:39.816 --> 00:06:42.860 that doesn't resonate with people because I can't be something I'm not. 00:06:42.860 --> 00:06:45.613 The only thing I've found that has led to success for me 00:06:46.280 --> 00:06:50.576 is just leaning in to being as authentically me as I possibly can. 00:06:51.077 --> 00:06:52.745 That's not going to appeal to everyone. 00:06:52.745 --> 00:06:54.622 Not everyone's going to like what I bring to the table. 00:06:54.622 --> 00:06:57.208 Not everyone's going to appreciate my message or 00:06:57.750 --> 00:07:00.128 my mustache or my hats or my 00:07:00.294 --> 00:07:03.381 whatever it is, Sure, But that's all I can be. 00:07:03.381 --> 00:07:05.967 All I can be at the very best is who I am. 00:07:05.967 --> 00:07:07.051 Really, really, truly. 00:07:07.051 --> 00:07:11.264 And so I've I've finally gotten to a place where I'm comfortable with that. And 00:07:12.265 --> 00:07:15.017 and I think for those people that I resonate with, 00:07:15.476 --> 00:07:18.354 that's the best way that I can be of service to them. 00:07:19.522 --> 00:07:22.608 Well, you're building your audience of people who 00:07:23.484 --> 00:07:25.486 who want to see the genuine you. 00:07:25.486 --> 00:07:29.824 How difficult would it be to live a life where you are putting on that different 00:07:29.824 --> 00:07:32.660 persona, where you're out in one place and you come home? 00:07:33.077 --> 00:07:34.495 You know, it brings to mind 00:07:34.495 --> 00:07:38.749 a local telecommunications company that we have over here called Telus. 00:07:38.749 --> 00:07:42.086 And before it was BC Tel, and there was a point in time 00:07:42.503 --> 00:07:46.257 where if you got a phone bill and let's say 00:07:46.257 --> 00:07:49.677 you dropped calls or pager or whatever, it was, dating myself a little bit 00:07:50.803 --> 00:07:53.848 and you wanted to negotiate your bill down with the company, 00:07:54.390 --> 00:07:57.018 you had to get mad at them and you had to 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:01.314 get a supervisor on the line and go through this whole process. 00:08:01.314 --> 00:08:04.817 And they I remember I didn't like doing that. 00:08:04.817 --> 00:08:05.776 I didn't want to have to go. 00:08:05.776 --> 00:08:08.404 And I would ask, why do I have to get mad in order to get this down? 00:08:08.404 --> 00:08:09.614 I'm going to go through this whole thing. 00:08:09.614 --> 00:08:11.991 And then they'd escalate it and they had this whole procedure in place. 00:08:13.910 --> 00:08:15.578 And at one point 00:08:15.578 --> 00:08:18.623 they made a switch because they realized that they were training 00:08:18.623 --> 00:08:22.376 their audienceor basically training their customer base to get mad at them. 00:08:22.752 --> 00:08:25.755 Like if you want to have that was the interaction that they were having. 00:08:25.755 --> 00:08:29.008 And so all of a sudden they said, you know, you can get as mad as you want. 00:08:29.008 --> 00:08:29.842 We're not doing anything. 00:08:29.842 --> 00:08:33.638 However, if you're kind and respectful and we go through this 00:08:33.638 --> 00:08:35.848 process, will bend over backwards to help you. 00:08:35.848 --> 00:08:38.184 And I thought that was from a business perspective. 00:08:38.184 --> 00:08:43.564 Very interesting that you train your customer, but also from a just 00:08:43.814 --> 00:08:48.444 sustainability and growth standpoint for somebody like yourself in this sphere, 00:08:49.779 --> 00:08:52.698 I see you as a leader in the industry 00:08:52.698 --> 00:08:57.537 and you were essentially training the people who follow you as to 00:08:58.746 --> 00:09:01.791 how you would like to be treated if, let's say you ran into them 00:09:01.791 --> 00:09:05.795 when you're out hunting by your example and you do a lot of that through example, 00:09:05.795 --> 00:09:08.881 you're not out there preaching, but there's a lot of example driven. 00:09:09.382 --> 00:09:13.010 Are you actively thinking of it sort of as in this telecommunication case, 00:09:13.010 --> 00:09:15.596 or is this just something that you're doing? 00:09:16.681 --> 00:09:19.767 I think it's not necessarily something I'm 00:09:19.767 --> 00:09:23.688 actively thinking about all the time, but it is 00:09:25.398 --> 00:09:27.733 I feel like as my platform has grown 00:09:28.109 --> 00:09:30.778 and I reach more people with what I say and what I do, 00:09:31.612 --> 00:09:34.574 I do have a recognition of 00:09:34.574 --> 00:09:36.576 the responsibility I have 00:09:36.576 --> 00:09:41.539 because I am leading by example, whether in a good way or a bad way. And 00:09:43.165 --> 00:09:44.125 I have realized 00:09:44.125 --> 00:09:46.919 that's that's a responsibility and an opportunity, right? 00:09:47.253 --> 00:09:48.337 So it's a responsibility 00:09:48.337 --> 00:09:50.631 that that falls on my shoulders whether I want it or not, 00:09:50.631 --> 00:09:52.675 because a lot of people see and hear what I do. 00:09:52.758 --> 00:09:53.676 So that's inherent. 00:09:53.676 --> 00:09:56.512 But then also you can look at it as an opportunity. 00:09:57.138 --> 00:10:00.308 And I do, because 00:10:00.308 --> 00:10:02.393 almost the only reason I do what I do now, 00:10:03.185 --> 00:10:06.564 which is, you know, write about, talk about and 00:10:07.189 --> 00:10:12.320 produce films and videos about hunting and fishing and how we can, 00:10:12.653 --> 00:10:14.780 you know, continue doing those things in a positive way 00:10:14.780 --> 00:10:17.450 and promote the future of these things and protect the future of things. 00:10:17.575 --> 00:10:18.326 That's what I do. 00:10:18.326 --> 00:10:21.621 And I do that because 00:10:21.621 --> 00:10:23.539 A: I love it. It's the only life I could live. 00:10:23.539 --> 00:10:24.373 But then B: 00:10:25.333 --> 00:10:26.375 all of my 00:10:26.375 --> 00:10:29.462 energy now is is more and more geared towards 00:10:30.379 --> 00:10:33.466 giving back to this thing, protecting this and conserving this thing. 00:10:34.425 --> 00:10:36.927 That's that's where my energy is really focused. 00:10:37.178 --> 00:10:38.346 Hopefully for now, in the next 00:10:38.346 --> 00:10:40.973 35, 40 years, however much longer I have on this earth. 00:10:41.682 --> 00:10:45.019 And so I look at this as an opportunity because there are a lot of things 00:10:45.019 --> 00:10:51.192 that I can see within the world where we need to make progress. 00:10:51.192 --> 00:10:53.694 We need to as a community or 00:10:55.237 --> 00:10:57.657 yeah, as a community, like we need to be working towards things 00:10:57.657 --> 00:11:00.201 or we need to be acting in certain ways or we need to be speaking out and 00:11:00.201 --> 00:11:03.871 representing ourselves in certain ways, or we need to fight this fight to 00:11:05.247 --> 00:11:07.249 support this cause, whatever it is. 00:11:07.249 --> 00:11:11.212 And you mentioned like I could go about this, I could try to, 00:11:11.629 --> 00:11:14.090 you know, work towards those goals by preaching about it all the time. 00:11:14.757 --> 00:11:17.134 And, you know, talking about these things is important. 00:11:17.134 --> 00:11:18.844 But I don't think anything. Right. 00:11:18.844 --> 00:11:21.764 You know, it's the old cliche actions speak louder than words. 00:11:21.764 --> 00:11:24.642 There's nothing that speaks and nothing that can 00:11:25.643 --> 00:11:27.144 promote something or 00:11:27.144 --> 00:11:30.356 showcase something, nothing more than you actually doing. 00:11:30.356 --> 00:11:32.316 It is as powerful as that. 00:11:32.316 --> 00:11:35.403 So I do look at the fact that, hey, I have a platform. 00:11:35.403 --> 00:11:37.071 There are some people who pay attention to 00:11:37.071 --> 00:11:40.991 what I'm doing and I better walk the walk if I plan to ever talk the talk. 00:11:41.283 --> 00:11:45.955 So. So yes, I think about this stuff not all the time, but I do reflect on it 00:11:45.955 --> 00:11:50.543 and and will, you know, try to take the opportunity to think through. 00:11:50.543 --> 00:11:51.836 Okay, What are the things that are important 00:11:51.836 --> 00:11:54.505 to me and important to the future of these things I care about so much? 00:11:55.631 --> 00:11:59.844 Are you living that way just as much as you're saying you do? 00:11:59.844 --> 00:12:01.804 How do you find that balance, though? 00:12:01.804 --> 00:12:05.474 I mean, if you come in to something that you were so passionate about 00:12:05.474 --> 00:12:07.810 and you just you love what you do, you love 00:12:07.810 --> 00:12:11.063 being outdoors, you love the connection with nature, you love the hunting. 00:12:11.605 --> 00:12:14.859 And, you know, it's like that old adage of, let's say 00:12:14.859 --> 00:12:16.819 somebody who's really good at their job. 00:12:16.819 --> 00:12:20.364 They're the top person at the local business that's, let's say, 00:12:20.364 --> 00:12:22.825 the top janitor, and they promote that person to a level. 00:12:23.451 --> 00:12:24.452 We're now they're the manager 00:12:24.452 --> 00:12:26.162 of all the other janitors, and they're like, you know, 00:12:26.162 --> 00:12:29.623 I I've been growing in this space, but I don't enjoy managing. 00:12:29.623 --> 00:12:31.667 I enjoyed what I was doing before. 00:12:32.084 --> 00:12:35.963 Do you find that there's a difficult balance as you grow 00:12:36.380 --> 00:12:39.884 to continue to do what it is that you're passionate about, 00:12:39.884 --> 00:12:41.385 or are your passions evolving? 00:12:42.845 --> 00:12:44.889 You know, it's a good question and it's one that, 00:12:45.973 --> 00:12:49.059 you know, I was actually talking to someone recently that they had asked, 00:12:49.059 --> 00:12:53.355 you know, if I if I harbored interest in, you know, getting more into 00:12:53.689 --> 00:12:54.940 the business side of things 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.778 or the managerial side of things or the leadership side of things. 00:12:58.778 --> 00:13:03.324 And and what I said and how I feel is that 00:13:03.324 --> 00:13:07.661 I want to continue to have leadership, 00:13:07.661 --> 00:13:12.166 but I want to lead with the tools that I have passions and skills around. 00:13:12.166 --> 00:13:17.421 And that's not necessarily in business or in manager managing. 00:13:17.421 --> 00:13:21.550 It's communications, storytelling, speaking, writing. 00:13:21.884 --> 00:13:26.388 That's where I have some level of skill and that really nicely 00:13:26.847 --> 00:13:30.267 matches up with my passion because, you know, 00:13:30.309 --> 00:13:33.729 if you want to speak and tell stories or communicate, 00:13:33.938 --> 00:13:37.191 having lived experiences about those things, sure as heck helps. 00:13:37.191 --> 00:13:43.072 And so I'm able to continue, you know, doing the things I love outside hunting 00:13:43.072 --> 00:13:47.034 and fishing and camping and backpacking and all those things, because it 00:13:47.993 --> 00:13:49.703 gives me a foundation to then 00:13:49.703 --> 00:13:54.166 speak and write and film and and tell important stories. 00:13:54.166 --> 00:13:58.879 So I will say like, I don't want to do anything else in my life. 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.048 Like, I don't there isn't a next step. 00:14:01.048 --> 00:14:03.259 There isn't the next job, 00:14:03.259 --> 00:14:08.514 you know, the basic job description of being a storyteller and a writer 00:14:08.514 --> 00:14:13.310 and a speaker about these things, a storyteller about these things. 00:14:13.769 --> 00:14:14.812 That's what I want to do. 00:14:14.812 --> 00:14:17.147 I just want to continue doing it and speaking to more people 00:14:17.147 --> 00:14:21.235 and hopefully having a larger impact. 00:14:21.235 --> 00:14:24.113 They say leadership's the art of influencing human behavior 00:14:24.321 --> 00:14:27.199 as to accomplish a mission in the manner so desired by the leader. 00:14:27.741 --> 00:14:30.536 And, you know, if your 00:14:31.829 --> 00:14:33.873 you clearly seem to be driven by something 00:14:33.873 --> 00:14:38.252 more than just hunting and fishing, then just being outside. And 00:14:39.503 --> 00:14:42.089 I'm from an outsider looking in 00:14:42.089 --> 00:14:45.467 family seems to play a very massive role with you. 00:14:46.260 --> 00:14:50.598 That seems evident just from somebody looking in. 00:14:50.598 --> 00:14:54.935 Staying grounded seems to be something that you actively work on in order to, 00:14:55.728 --> 00:14:58.397 as you move through your career 00:14:58.397 --> 00:15:01.609 and your social media presence, 00:15:01.609 --> 00:15:06.614 what would you say is your guiding principle that's kind 00:15:06.614 --> 00:15:09.992 of pushing you forward, that allows you to be outside to do what you love to do? 00:15:09.992 --> 00:15:12.620 But is your 00:15:12.828 --> 00:15:17.166 your North Star, I guess, yeah. 00:15:17.791 --> 00:15:22.338 So there's there's there's two parallel, I guess, lines. 00:15:22.338 --> 00:15:26.717 I would think there's this, this line of 00:15:28.135 --> 00:15:29.845 of purpose 00:15:29.845 --> 00:15:33.057 I think is a big thing and just having like a purpose 00:15:33.474 --> 00:15:36.560 focused life I think is something that has helped me 00:15:37.227 --> 00:15:39.605 stay true to, to things. 00:15:39.605 --> 00:15:40.856 And then there's like 00:15:40.856 --> 00:15:45.986 foundational principles or virtues maybe that then guide how I do that. 00:15:45.986 --> 00:15:48.864 I think so. I have I have I'm very purpose. 00:15:48.864 --> 00:15:51.825 I'm very goal oriented, purpose focused. 00:15:51.825 --> 00:15:54.828 So I need to have a thing that I'm chasing or a thing 00:15:54.828 --> 00:15:57.539 that matters a lot to me that I can keep my eye on. 00:15:58.457 --> 00:16:02.127 And so those things would basically involve at this point, 00:16:02.461 --> 00:16:06.173 you know, one is working towards a better future for wildlife 00:16:06.173 --> 00:16:10.469 and wild places like that's that's top of the career focus, that's top of 00:16:11.637 --> 00:16:12.680 anything along those lines. 00:16:12.680 --> 00:16:15.599 Everything needs to be working towards that. 00:16:15.599 --> 00:16:20.688 And then on the personal side, it is, you know, supporting, working towards, 00:16:20.688 --> 00:16:25.693 you know, supporting the long term future and satisfaction and, 00:16:26.610 --> 00:16:28.904 you know, whatever obligations that I have when it comes to my family. 00:16:28.904 --> 00:16:29.571 Right, right. 00:16:29.571 --> 00:16:31.740 Doing right by my family, raising my children, 00:16:32.116 --> 00:16:35.536 being the husband that my wife deserves. Hmm. 00:16:35.744 --> 00:16:40.332 So those two parallel tracks would be and those things work together, I think. 00:16:40.332 --> 00:16:42.751 But those are the two main purposes in my life. 00:16:43.127 --> 00:16:48.590 And then I have, you know, virtues and principles of life that then, 00:16:48.590 --> 00:16:50.926 you know, give me the foundation to do those kinds of things. 00:16:50.926 --> 00:16:53.637 So those would be the things like trying to be grounded. 00:16:53.637 --> 00:16:56.056 Those are the things like continued self-development. 00:16:56.348 --> 00:16:57.808 That's a really important thing for me. 00:16:58.851 --> 00:17:00.853 Never losing your curiosity. 00:17:00.853 --> 00:17:03.564 I think that's something that has been a guiding 00:17:04.565 --> 00:17:06.650 I don't know if says a virtue or principle or what 00:17:06.650 --> 00:17:10.612 the heck that is, but that's that is a huge foundational part of me. 00:17:10.612 --> 00:17:17.327 Just I am obsessed with learning and growing and and exploring new things 00:17:17.369 --> 00:17:21.206 and reading and studying and being a student. 00:17:21.206 --> 00:17:24.918 I think maybe that's being a student of of everything that I explore. 00:17:25.669 --> 00:17:30.841 So that's something that then fuels those two main purposes, 00:17:30.841 --> 00:17:34.636 I think, you know, yeah, just the basics, 00:17:35.554 --> 00:17:38.974 the very basic things like your family teaches you growing up, right? 00:17:38.974 --> 00:17:43.312 Integrity, being a man of your word, being true to what you say you're going to do, 00:17:44.271 --> 00:17:46.774 treating others the way I mean, very simple things being treated 00:17:46.857 --> 00:17:48.025 as the way you want to be treated 00:17:48.025 --> 00:17:53.238 and simply living a good, positive life, being an example for others. 00:17:53.238 --> 00:17:57.242 I mean, you know, this isn't new to new to the world kind of concepts here, 00:17:57.659 --> 00:18:00.412 but I try to live in that kind of way while moving 00:18:00.412 --> 00:18:03.248 towards those two larger, important purposes in my life. 00:18:03.582 --> 00:18:07.002 A lot of the things you're talking about here are very stoic in nature. 00:18:07.086 --> 00:18:12.674 And that's a new sort of I mean, everyone seems to be talking about stoicism 00:18:12.674 --> 00:18:15.928 since I think Ryan Halliday has really popularized it and others. 00:18:16.345 --> 00:18:18.055 Yeah, My wife says, 00:18:19.098 --> 00:18:19.348 you know, 00:18:19.348 --> 00:18:22.559 Mark, he displays all these stoic virtues. 00:18:22.643 --> 00:18:24.353 I'm like, what is that? Right? 00:18:24.353 --> 00:18:25.854 I don't know what this is. 00:18:25.854 --> 00:18:27.648 She's like, Well, you're a stoic Travis. 00:18:27.648 --> 00:18:29.775 I'm like, I still don't know what this is. 00:18:29.775 --> 00:18:30.359 Right. 00:18:31.944 --> 00:18:35.656 But I think you were actually named in by BHA. 00:18:35.823 --> 00:18:38.617 They had attributed that to you. 00:18:38.617 --> 00:18:41.328 Is that something that you actively seek out or is it 00:18:41.328 --> 00:18:44.665 something just has been labeled to you just by the way that you act? 00:18:45.791 --> 00:18:49.503 Well, I think I have developed an interest in the Stoics 00:18:49.503 --> 00:18:53.507 and stoic philosophy by, you know, folks like Ryan Holiday and Tim Ferriss. 00:18:53.507 --> 00:18:56.635 And so so I've read pretty extensively on those topics, 00:18:56.635 --> 00:19:02.516 and I've just found so many parallels and so many things like that, though 00:19:02.558 --> 00:19:07.146 that set of tools, that Stoic philosophy provides. 00:19:07.229 --> 00:19:12.568 So neatly dovetails with so many of the challenges 00:19:12.568 --> 00:19:15.737 that I faced as a hunter, as an outdoorsman, 00:19:16.488 --> 00:19:18.824 or even as a as a writer or anyone in business. 00:19:18.824 --> 00:19:21.451 Like it's simply like a toolset for dealing with life. 00:19:21.869 --> 00:19:24.746 And I found it to be a very useful toolset. 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:26.832 And, and 00:19:26.832 --> 00:19:31.211 yeah, so that's, that's you know, something I'm perfectly fine being, 00:19:32.171 --> 00:19:36.216 you know, in that conversation because I think it's a useful set 00:19:36.216 --> 00:19:39.553 of ideas and again, a pretty decent way to go through life. 00:19:39.553 --> 00:19:43.098 And it's certainly helped me, you know, I don't have all the answers. 00:19:43.098 --> 00:19:46.018 I'm what, 46 I think I am right now. 00:19:46.018 --> 00:19:48.437 I got to double check that one. 00:19:49.062 --> 00:19:53.275 But one thing that I have found, if you want to be happy in life, 00:19:53.317 --> 00:19:57.070 it is that progressive realization of a worthy ideal, as 00:19:58.363 --> 00:19:59.823 Earl Nightingale would put it. 00:19:59.823 --> 00:20:01.158 But the 00:20:01.158 --> 00:20:04.953 the fact that you're always learning and always sort of building for me, 00:20:04.953 --> 00:20:08.081 I like to build things I like the creation of something, 00:20:09.082 --> 00:20:12.502 not necessarily the ongoing upkeep of everything that I create 00:20:12.502 --> 00:20:13.795 and being in there. 00:20:13.795 --> 00:20:14.421 But if I've got 00:20:14.421 --> 00:20:17.591 something that I'm putting together and building and watching it grow, 00:20:18.258 --> 00:20:21.678 there is a natural byproduct of enjoyment 00:20:21.678 --> 00:20:23.639 and happiness that seems to come from that. 00:20:23.639 --> 00:20:27.809 And it seems like you have nailed that on the head with the constant 00:20:27.809 --> 00:20:30.938 learning, with the progression, something that you're working towards. 00:20:31.230 --> 00:20:33.941 Because if I've built something and it's doing well, 00:20:34.691 --> 00:20:36.985 I will become bored with it after a while. 00:20:36.985 --> 00:20:38.737 If I don't have something new that I can learn, 00:20:38.737 --> 00:20:40.906 if it's not pushing me or challenging me 00:20:41.490 --> 00:20:43.909 or building something that's going to And when I'm young, 00:20:43.909 --> 00:20:46.995 you start out like, how can I how can I build myself? 00:20:46.995 --> 00:20:48.830 And then after a certain point, you're like, 00:20:48.830 --> 00:20:51.083 How can I build something that's going to make it better for others? 00:20:51.625 --> 00:20:54.378 Yeah, yeah, 100% relate to that. 00:20:54.378 --> 00:20:57.339 Had had those very same experiences. 00:20:58.006 --> 00:21:00.509 I can't handle stagnation. Hmm. 00:21:01.218 --> 00:21:03.262 So. So yes, growth, 00:21:04.012 --> 00:21:07.307 exploring new things I have to be doing. 00:21:07.307 --> 00:21:08.475 There's got to be another project 00:21:08.475 --> 00:21:12.437 that's got to be the next thing to chase after, to explore, to, to, to work on. 00:21:12.437 --> 00:21:13.563 To, to pursue. 00:21:14.690 --> 00:21:17.359 To my wife’s chagrin 00:21:17.567 --> 00:21:20.445 I can't just sit and be. Yeah. 00:21:20.821 --> 00:21:26.493 You know, I have to have, you know, a cause, a purpose, a something that 00:21:26.493 --> 00:21:30.080 I'm, that I'm working on building whatever it might be in then. 00:21:30.080 --> 00:21:30.372 Yeah. 00:21:30.372 --> 00:21:34.793 Like I definitely had a progression with my career where just like you 00:21:34.793 --> 00:21:38.755 described, you know, early on it was just, you know, could I find a way? 00:21:38.755 --> 00:21:41.633 You know, I started my career in the tech industry working Google, right? 00:21:41.675 --> 00:21:43.593 9 to 5. Yes. 00:21:43.844 --> 00:21:47.764 And right around that same time, I realized within weeks of starting 00:21:47.764 --> 00:21:48.724 that job, I realized like, 00:21:48.724 --> 00:21:51.059 oh, wow, this is not how I can spend the rest of my life. 00:21:51.768 --> 00:21:55.272 But I started a website the summer prior about deer hunting. 00:21:55.272 --> 00:21:56.023 And I thought, you know what? 00:21:56.023 --> 00:21:58.525 I bet you I bet I could do something with that. 00:21:58.525 --> 00:22:01.320 And I decided, like, that fall like, I'm going to I'm going to find a way 00:22:01.320 --> 00:22:05.282 to take my passion for deer hunting and make that a living somehow. 00:22:05.282 --> 00:22:07.159 I don't know how, but I'm going to do it. 00:22:07.159 --> 00:22:09.953 And and so for four years I struggled to do that. 00:22:09.953 --> 00:22:11.121 I worked to build that thing 00:22:11.121 --> 00:22:14.499 on, you know, nights and weekends and all that kind of stuff. 00:22:14.499 --> 00:22:17.002 And so early on it was just, Can I make this thing work? 00:22:17.002 --> 00:22:19.254 Could I somehow make a living doing this thing I love? 00:22:19.254 --> 00:22:22.215 And then, you know, I was able to do that and then it was, okay, can I do this? 00:22:22.215 --> 00:22:25.719 Well, can I, can I you know, reach the top of this 00:22:27.262 --> 00:22:28.055 I don't know 00:22:28.055 --> 00:22:31.391 ladder that I'm I'm climbing up right now within that world and then okay. 00:22:31.391 --> 00:22:34.644 I was able to do that and then some somewhere around 00:22:34.728 --> 00:22:37.898 8-10 years into doing that is when I started having these, 00:22:39.107 --> 00:22:42.110 you know, realizations where 00:22:42.110 --> 00:22:43.987 it had to be about more than just me. 00:22:43.987 --> 00:22:47.157 And and I was so head over heels 00:22:47.157 --> 00:22:50.035 in love with 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:53.038 this world that I get to spend 00:22:53.038 --> 00:22:56.750 time in the natural world, wild animals, wild places, wilderness. 00:22:56.750 --> 00:22:57.959 I mean, I'm 00:22:58.668 --> 00:23:00.962 head over heels is really the only way I can describe it. 00:23:01.922 --> 00:23:04.466 And I wanted so badly, so desperately 00:23:04.800 --> 00:23:07.844 to keep these places around 00:23:07.844 --> 00:23:10.806 that I just I knew, you know, that that's what I need to be doing. 00:23:10.806 --> 00:23:13.517 That's that's the only way I could feel. 00:23:13.517 --> 00:23:17.854 I could use my talents or skills or sweat equity for something worthwhile. 00:23:18.146 --> 00:23:19.773 That was the place. 00:23:19.773 --> 00:23:22.818 Like there's, you know, all this different people are built differently. 00:23:22.818 --> 00:23:25.070 They've got different skill sets, they've got different things 00:23:25.070 --> 00:23:26.238 they could do in the world. 00:23:26.238 --> 00:23:28.740 I'm I can't solve world poverty. 00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:30.867 I can't cure cancer. 00:23:31.952 --> 00:23:32.411 But I. 00:23:32.411 --> 00:23:35.414 But I know this is where I'm supposed to do my thing. 00:23:35.914 --> 00:23:40.210 And and so that was, I don't know, five, five, six years ago, something like that, 00:23:40.210 --> 00:23:44.339 when I kind of realized that this was the path that I need to pursue. 00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:46.842 It's not trying to be the best deer hunter in the world. 00:23:46.842 --> 00:23:50.303 It's not trying to be the most famous, you know, TV show host in the world. 00:23:50.303 --> 00:23:52.222 It's none of those things. 00:23:52.222 --> 00:23:55.809 It has to be focused on that greater good that I could work on. 00:23:55.809 --> 00:23:59.271 And so that's been guiding my decisions since that point. 00:24:00.564 --> 00:24:03.692 And that's where I'm continuously even now, trying to figure out, 00:24:03.692 --> 00:24:06.445 am I doing that well enough, what I need to be doing differently? 00:24:07.237 --> 00:24:07.737 How do I 00:24:09.030 --> 00:24:09.656 how do I matter? 00:24:09.656 --> 00:24:11.241 How do I make a difference? 00:24:11.658 --> 00:24:14.119 Yeah, that conversation with you with yourself often, 00:24:16.121 --> 00:24:17.164 relatively. Yeah. 00:24:17.164 --> 00:24:19.624 I mean, I really do. 00:24:19.624 --> 00:24:23.211 Especially each year, you know, come New Years, that's a great time to reflect. 00:24:23.587 --> 00:24:25.172 So we're just coming off of that this year. 00:24:25.172 --> 00:24:28.967 And I, you know, sat and spent a lot of time thinking about, All right, 00:24:29.885 --> 00:24:32.846 have your actions, you know, have the choices 00:24:32.846 --> 00:24:36.641 you've made in your career or the content you're producing or whether the projects 00:24:36.641 --> 00:24:40.562 you're pursuing, are you are you working enough towards that goal? 00:24:40.562 --> 00:24:42.647 Are you doing enough or do we need to start tweaking things? 00:24:42.647 --> 00:24:45.108 Do we need to change some things? Do we need to reconsider some things? 00:24:45.108 --> 00:24:46.568 Do we need to tackle new projects? 00:24:47.694 --> 00:24:48.653 But yeah, I think that is 00:24:48.653 --> 00:24:53.158 something I think about fairly often, especially if you 00:24:54.576 --> 00:24:57.329 and gosh, I got to be careful not to get preachy. 00:24:57.662 --> 00:25:03.752 but if if you pay, if you pay attention to anything 00:25:03.752 --> 00:25:08.215 when it comes to the environment or public lands, conservation, anything like that, 00:25:08.215 --> 00:25:12.677 if you pay attention to what's going on in the world around us, it's really easy. 00:25:13.011 --> 00:25:15.597 It's really hard not to see 00:25:16.890 --> 00:25:19.518 areas of danger, areas of worry, 00:25:19.518 --> 00:25:22.771 areas for concern, threats from every different angle to our 00:25:23.813 --> 00:25:27.943 public lands, to our clean waters to 00:25:29.361 --> 00:25:30.278 so many different things. 00:25:30.278 --> 00:25:30.779 We can go. 00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:32.781 There's a million different angles. You could go there, right? 00:25:32.781 --> 00:25:34.824 There's so many different things that threaten the future 00:25:34.824 --> 00:25:37.702 of these these places and these animals and these opportunities 00:25:37.827 --> 00:25:40.163 that mean a lot to me and I think to a lot of other people. 00:25:40.580 --> 00:25:43.458 So I'm constantly reminded because of that. 00:25:43.458 --> 00:25:45.460 So I'll constantly get this. 00:25:45.460 --> 00:25:47.712 I'll be reading something in the morning, drinking my coffee and like, 00:25:47.712 --> 00:25:51.841 Oh my gosh, this place has got this this thing happening to it. 00:25:51.841 --> 00:25:55.220 And I can't imagine a future in which we don't have this, 00:25:56.221 --> 00:25:57.138 whatever it is. 00:25:57.138 --> 00:25:57.472 Yeah. 00:25:57.472 --> 00:26:02.060 And you can, you can find yourself get depressed pretty quickly if you let that 00:26:03.144 --> 00:26:04.145 that consumes you. 00:26:04.145 --> 00:26:05.814 Let this. Yeah. Consumes you. 00:26:05.814 --> 00:26:10.610 And I’m constantly reminded of something that Yvonne Shanard says has said, 00:26:10.944 --> 00:26:13.822 which is the greatest cure for depression is action. 00:26:14.155 --> 00:26:16.825 I constantly, whenever I find myself reading an article 00:26:16.825 --> 00:26:20.287 or seeing some new study about, you know, how this wildlife population 00:26:20.287 --> 00:26:22.247 is going down the tube or how this animal's 00:26:22.247 --> 00:26:24.874 just about to go extinct, or this new 00:26:26.209 --> 00:26:29.546 mining project is going to, you know, devastate the headwaters of 00:26:30.130 --> 00:26:31.673 a salmon run or something. Right. 00:26:31.673 --> 00:26:35.468 I just constantly remind myself, well, the only way to deal 00:26:35.468 --> 00:26:38.513 with this, you know, negative feeling right now is is action. 00:26:38.513 --> 00:26:40.307 So what can you what can you do? 00:26:40.307 --> 00:26:43.685 Do you find do you find that battle with that that negativity? 00:26:43.685 --> 00:26:48.189 Is that something that manifests itself you seem like a thinker. 00:26:48.189 --> 00:26:52.819 Yeah, I'm a thinker and so I have the you know, I can I can dwell on things. 00:26:52.819 --> 00:26:53.612 Sure. 00:26:54.029 --> 00:26:57.657 I'm I'm generally a positive, happy person. 00:26:57.657 --> 00:26:59.784 So I don't have, like depression issues. I don't have that. 00:27:00.243 --> 00:27:03.747 But I do have the ability to sometimes just be like really bummed out 00:27:03.747 --> 00:27:06.499 about stuff and maybe upset about things. 00:27:06.875 --> 00:27:10.045 And so then the question is just what do you do with that feeling? 00:27:10.045 --> 00:27:11.296 What do you do with this? 00:27:11.296 --> 00:27:12.547 Do you just read this stuff? 00:27:12.547 --> 00:27:15.884 Do I just become like this guy who reads about everything 00:27:15.884 --> 00:27:17.510 that's wrong with the environment, everything that's wrong 00:27:17.510 --> 00:27:20.889 with wildlife reads, And I know everything there is to be said 00:27:20.889 --> 00:27:24.017 about the million threats to our wild places in the environment. 00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:24.476 Right? 00:27:25.018 --> 00:27:27.187 But what good is that unless you act on it? 00:27:27.187 --> 00:27:28.438 And so that's what I constantly 00:27:28.438 --> 00:27:32.359 try to remind myself of, is is it's no good to just dwell in bad news 00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:36.696 unless you're going to take that information and do something about it. 00:27:36.696 --> 00:27:39.658 So when I was young, I was diagnosed with ADHD, 00:27:39.949 --> 00:27:43.787 and there are people who get energy 00:27:43.787 --> 00:27:47.624 from being around other people call them extroverts, right? 00:27:47.624 --> 00:27:50.960 And in a large group and they're just more and more energized. 00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.297 I've always found myself under that definition 00:27:54.297 --> 00:27:59.052 to be more of an introvert when I am around other people, I enjoy it. 00:27:59.844 --> 00:28:01.805 But at the end of the day, I'm feeling drained. 00:28:01.805 --> 00:28:06.184 Like if I have to go to a shot show in Vegas or one of these man by day 00:28:06.184 --> 00:28:11.106 one and a half, I'm done, You know. 00:28:11.106 --> 00:28:15.652 But I found just being in nature is something that creates a bit of a 00:28:15.860 --> 00:28:18.196 maybe forces me into a meditative state, 00:28:18.947 --> 00:28:21.533 allows me to be recentered. 00:28:21.533 --> 00:28:24.244 And I think there's huge value 00:28:25.078 --> 00:28:29.124 to everyone having a better connection with their natural environment. 00:28:29.124 --> 00:28:33.461 I'm curious what it is for you where you say you absolutely love it, 00:28:33.586 --> 00:28:34.421 you just love it. 00:28:34.421 --> 00:28:36.673 Is it something that you need that fuels 00:28:36.673 --> 00:28:40.635 use in a similar way that I need to get out into the wild? 00:28:40.635 --> 00:28:42.804 Yeah, 100%. 00:28:42.804 --> 00:28:48.184 It's it's, it, it does all of those things and 00:28:49.227 --> 00:28:51.438 all of my 00:28:51.813 --> 00:28:54.023 my greatest memories, my greatest, 00:28:54.023 --> 00:28:58.069 most powerful experiences, the things that, you know, outside of my family. 00:28:58.069 --> 00:29:01.239 The only thing that you know, would get me up in the morning. 00:29:01.281 --> 00:29:02.407 Incredibly jazzed 00:29:02.407 --> 00:29:05.618 The only thing that I'm incredibly excited about doing, the thing that 00:29:06.411 --> 00:29:09.122 does refuel me, that recenters, me, 00:29:09.122 --> 00:29:13.168 that gives me excitement and momentum moving into the future. 00:29:13.168 --> 00:29:15.628 I mean, all of those things revolve around 00:29:16.379 --> 00:29:19.466 the outside world and those things you can do out there. 00:29:19.466 --> 00:29:21.926 And that's been the case since I was a little kid. 00:29:21.926 --> 00:29:26.431 You know, the the things I loved as a child were animals, right? 00:29:26.431 --> 00:29:29.392 I mean, that's a pretty natural thing. Sure. For a lot of kids, right. 00:29:29.392 --> 00:29:31.936 We have an innate connection to nature. 00:29:31.936 --> 00:29:33.062 They call it Biophilia. 00:29:33.062 --> 00:29:36.065 Is this theory that we were you know, 00:29:36.065 --> 00:29:39.277 because we evolved surrounded by these other life forms, 00:29:39.694 --> 00:29:43.573 We are predisposition as humans to have an innate connection to them. 00:29:43.823 --> 00:29:46.618 And some of us stray from that. 00:29:46.618 --> 00:29:49.996 Some of us eventually become divorced from that through, you know, 00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:52.540 you know, choices to live farther apart from nature. 00:29:52.540 --> 00:29:55.627 But it is an inherent human thing 00:29:56.169 --> 00:29:58.546 to to feel what you feel when you go outside. 00:29:58.797 --> 00:30:00.381 And for me to feel those same things. 00:30:00.381 --> 00:30:05.887 And I think oftentimes you get someone who's lived in the city and been an office 00:30:05.887 --> 00:30:09.390 worker and never had that opportunity to get outside and see these places. 00:30:09.390 --> 00:30:11.392 Do these things have up close experiences 00:30:11.392 --> 00:30:13.436 with wild animals if they never had that opportunity, 00:30:13.436 --> 00:30:16.940 But then they're invited to go on a trip and they go to a national park 00:30:16.940 --> 00:30:20.235 and they see a buffalo up close and they come around a corner 00:30:20.235 --> 00:30:21.736 and there's a grizzly bear standing in the river 00:30:21.736 --> 00:30:25.114 and they spend three nights out there and see the stars 00:30:25.114 --> 00:30:28.159 at night and hear the wind rustling through the trees and all those things. 00:30:28.159 --> 00:30:29.536 They all of a sudden realize like 00:30:30.829 --> 00:30:32.205 something has been tapped. 00:30:32.205 --> 00:30:35.583 They've tapped into something that was there all along that was lying 00:30:35.583 --> 00:30:38.962 latent deep down inside their chest, that now they're all of a sudden experiencing 00:30:38.962 --> 00:30:43.132 and realizing that a part of them all of a sudden is being able to 00:30:43.174 --> 00:30:47.053 to to live that never did before. 00:30:47.053 --> 00:30:51.975 And I think that's what I was just very fortunate to encounter and experience it. 00:30:51.975 --> 00:30:54.769 Two, three, four years old and never left it. 00:30:55.103 --> 00:31:00.859 And I just continue to try to experience that as much as I possibly can ever since, 00:31:01.192 --> 00:31:04.195 you know, a lot of people tell me that it's fear that prevents them 00:31:04.195 --> 00:31:08.324 from wanting to go out and explore wild places, whether that's fear 00:31:08.324 --> 00:31:09.409 in the ocean of sharks, 00:31:09.409 --> 00:31:11.244 even if they're in an area where there are no sharks 00:31:11.244 --> 00:31:13.872 or fear of the unknown is usually what it is. 00:31:13.872 --> 00:31:16.165 Fear of bears. I hear that one a lot. 00:31:16.583 --> 00:31:20.461 Yeah, I understand you used to take Tylenol 00:31:20.461 --> 00:31:23.381 PM in order to get through the night in Bear country. 00:31:23.631 --> 00:31:26.509 Yeah. You still do that? No, I don't. 00:31:27.594 --> 00:31:29.929 But yeah, the first 00:31:29.929 --> 00:31:32.390 when I started backpacking 00:31:32.390 --> 00:31:35.184 in Grizzly country is when. 00:31:35.602 --> 00:31:38.646 When I started taking that because, yeah, I grew up, 00:31:38.897 --> 00:31:41.357 as I alluded, like doing outdoorsy things in Michigan 00:31:42.317 --> 00:31:45.570 and Michigan's kind of like a I love Michigan. 00:31:45.570 --> 00:31:47.030 We have some great outside opportunities, 00:31:47.030 --> 00:31:50.700 but it's a slightly domesticated version of the wild world, right? 00:31:50.992 --> 00:31:52.160 We're not in British Columbia. 00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.788 There's not grizzlies around every corner mountain lions and wolves 00:31:55.788 --> 00:31:57.790 and really wild, wild stuff. 00:31:58.791 --> 00:32:01.127 So I had I had a great beginner's 00:32:02.921 --> 00:32:05.006 it was like a beginner's guide to the outside world. 00:32:05.006 --> 00:32:07.216 This my my outdoor experiences at that point. 00:32:07.467 --> 00:32:11.930 And it wasn't until after college that I set off and started going west 00:32:11.930 --> 00:32:14.849 and having some of these different experiences. And so I started backpacking. 00:32:14.849 --> 00:32:17.727 I started going into really wild places, really off the beaten path. 00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:22.315 And so at that point, yeah, that's when I, you know, had those first encounters 00:32:22.315 --> 00:32:25.401 with, with critters that could eat ya for dinner if they really wanted to. 00:32:26.110 --> 00:32:29.864 So for that first couple of years really, you know going to sleep I mean it's 00:32:30.531 --> 00:32:32.992 you know being in grizzly country when you're not at the top of the food 00:32:32.992 --> 00:32:35.036 chain, it's different. It is isn’t it? 00:32:35.536 --> 00:32:36.287 It is different. 00:32:36.287 --> 00:32:39.374 And so early on, especially when you don't know much about 00:32:39.374 --> 00:32:40.833 it and it's so brand new, 00:32:41.876 --> 00:32:42.210 I was 00:32:42.210 --> 00:32:44.545 even, you know, skittish around black bears early on. 00:32:46.172 --> 00:32:47.548 But, you know, with time 00:32:47.548 --> 00:32:51.552 and experience and exposure, you start to understand how to operate 00:32:51.552 --> 00:32:55.098 in those types of places, not living in a world of fear. 00:32:55.306 --> 00:33:00.019 But I think with respect, I think I think that's how I approach 00:33:00.353 --> 00:33:03.856 bear country or grizzly country or really any kind of risk in the natural world 00:33:03.856 --> 00:33:09.237 is not fear focused, but with a with a healthy level of respect 00:33:09.237 --> 00:33:13.157 for the real risk, the realistic risks, understanding it, 00:33:13.157 --> 00:33:18.830 preparing for it, operating within, you know, operating 00:33:18.830 --> 00:33:22.583 within a knowledgeable sense of, okay, how do we how do we deal with this? 00:33:22.583 --> 00:33:25.044 How do we do this stuff in the right, safe way? 00:33:26.337 --> 00:33:28.297 So, yeah, it's funny, you know, like my dad 00:33:29.382 --> 00:33:30.967 has never spent like that kind of time 00:33:30.967 --> 00:33:32.427 in grizzly country and doing these kinds of things. 00:33:32.427 --> 00:33:33.678 So this is different, right? Yeah. 00:33:33.678 --> 00:33:36.347 And so now we go up to northern Michigan and like, 00:33:36.347 --> 00:33:40.018 he wants to go for a walk in the woods and he wants to carry his pistol. 00:33:40.018 --> 00:33:42.437 And I'm like, there's like a couple of black bears somewhere around here. 00:33:42.437 --> 00:33:43.604 But there's nothing that's going to, 00:33:43.604 --> 00:33:45.565 you know, nothing to bother worry about at all. 00:33:45.565 --> 00:33:49.402 Yeah, but you know, he just hasn't had the exposure and time in these places 00:33:49.402 --> 00:33:52.905 where there are some things that are a little bit more 00:33:52.905 --> 00:33:53.656 dicey. 00:33:53.656 --> 00:33:55.950 Yeah. So it's just what you're used to. It's what you're used to. 00:33:55.950 --> 00:33:56.951 It's where you spend time. 00:33:56.951 --> 00:33:59.662 It's what you develop a comfort level with. 00:33:59.662 --> 00:34:02.206 I mean, there's certainly still things that scare me out there, 00:34:03.416 --> 00:34:06.419 but late at night you hear a bump, 00:34:06.419 --> 00:34:08.755 buffaloes rubbing up against your tent in the middle of the night. 00:34:09.297 --> 00:34:09.922 Yeah. 00:34:09.922 --> 00:34:11.132 Yes, that happened to you and your wife. 00:34:11.132 --> 00:34:13.760 And there you go. Yes it did. 00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.888 So. So yeah, I think 00:34:16.888 --> 00:34:20.975 the wild world is such a great place to confront that kind of stuff, though. 00:34:21.684 --> 00:34:23.186 I mean, I don't think there's. 00:34:23.186 --> 00:34:28.066 I don't think there's any better way to learn to deal with discomfort or fear 00:34:28.608 --> 00:34:31.819 than putting yourself out there against the original elements 00:34:32.236 --> 00:34:35.239 and other critters that, you know, again, back to that thing 00:34:35.323 --> 00:34:38.743 mentioned a second ago, like those were the 00:34:38.743 --> 00:34:42.497 that was the iron that we sharpened ourselves against to become humans, right? 00:34:42.497 --> 00:34:43.539 We evolved. 00:34:43.539 --> 00:34:47.960 We became what we are now by going out into the wild and surviving, 00:34:48.836 --> 00:34:52.298 finding food, finding shelter, dealing with the elements, 00:34:52.298 --> 00:34:55.802 dealing with other wildlife out there, like that's what made us who we are. 00:34:55.927 --> 00:34:58.471 So what better way to, 00:34:58.971 --> 00:35:02.642 you know, continue to confront what it means to be a human 00:35:02.809 --> 00:35:07.897 and to go back into that original, you know, landscape that we started. 00:35:08.064 --> 00:35:11.859 I find it really interesting as we evolve as humans, how disconnected 00:35:11.859 --> 00:35:14.695 we started to become from our food and from the process 00:35:14.695 --> 00:35:19.075 and from the natural environment to where we are. 00:35:19.075 --> 00:35:22.954 I feel like the pendulum is swinging back when people are talking about 00:35:22.954 --> 00:35:27.083 the 20 mile diet or 50 mile away for don't even know what the proximity is, 00:35:27.083 --> 00:35:31.671 but locally harvested or foraged, foraged food, 00:35:32.839 --> 00:35:35.716 getting back into the basic virtues 00:35:35.716 --> 00:35:40.346 that are our forefathers would talk about and stoicism being one of them. 00:35:41.139 --> 00:35:44.934 I find it I find it rather interesting that it's swung so far. 00:35:44.934 --> 00:35:45.935 And everyone 00:35:45.935 --> 00:35:46.394 a lot of 00:35:46.394 --> 00:35:49.647 people would look at that and say, Oh man, you know, the future's looking terrible. 00:35:50.148 --> 00:35:51.941 But nature's got an interesting way. 00:35:51.941 --> 00:35:53.985 Of course correcting and 00:35:55.194 --> 00:35:58.614 yeah, I just I think it's when you talk about people 00:35:58.948 --> 00:36:02.660 good at getting out to nature and connecting with those primal fears, 00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:06.414 I see like through COVID, people were afraid. 00:36:06.622 --> 00:36:07.790 They didn't know what was going on. 00:36:07.790 --> 00:36:10.209 They watch the media and they listen to the news. They 00:36:11.878 --> 00:36:14.547 they figure the world's fallen apart, everything’s getting shut down. 00:36:14.547 --> 00:36:19.177 And there was a huge uptick in people wanting to get hunting license. 00:36:19.177 --> 00:36:22.889 I found wanting to get outdoors because they're getting all cooped up. 00:36:23.723 --> 00:36:27.435 Do you do you see that pendulum shifting 00:36:27.435 --> 00:36:31.606 or was that do you think was a momentary kind of blip because of COVID? 00:36:31.606 --> 00:36:33.816 And it's going to start going back to where it was? 00:36:35.109 --> 00:36:37.028 I mean, I think there's there's two things. 00:36:37.028 --> 00:36:38.362 I think, one, 00:36:38.696 --> 00:36:42.408 it was definitely like a unique set of circumstances that 00:36:43.534 --> 00:36:47.705 kind of disproportionately encouraged getting back outside, right, 00:36:47.830 --> 00:36:49.415 because there was all these inside 00:36:49.415 --> 00:36:52.877 activities that people just couldn't do anymore for for some months. 00:36:53.377 --> 00:36:57.590 And so it pushed some number of people, millions of people, turns out, 00:36:57.673 --> 00:36:58.633 as far as the numbers 00:36:58.633 --> 00:37:02.053 tell us to go and try this stuff again or try it for the first time 00:37:02.386 --> 00:37:04.972 maybe they saw hunting on TV or they heard about a friend who did it. 00:37:05.264 --> 00:37:07.225 And this was finally that time where I got nothing else. 00:37:07.225 --> 00:37:10.228 I can't I can't go to the movies, can't go to the mall. 00:37:10.228 --> 00:37:10.770 Let's try it. 00:37:10.770 --> 00:37:13.397 Finally, let's try kayaking or let's try hiking. 00:37:13.397 --> 00:37:15.524 So there definitely was that COVID wave. 00:37:16.484 --> 00:37:18.569 And I think what we've seen, 00:37:18.778 --> 00:37:22.573 what the numbers seem to tell us now, is that a certain percentage of that I'm 00:37:22.573 --> 00:37:24.742 not exactly sure what that percentage 00:37:24.742 --> 00:37:27.119 might average out to be across, you know, different activities, 00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:29.205 but a certain percentage of have stuck with it. 00:37:29.205 --> 00:37:32.124 A lot of them have gone back to their, you know, whatever they're doing prior, 00:37:32.667 --> 00:37:34.377 But a lot of folks have stuck with it. 00:37:34.377 --> 00:37:38.506 So I think we had like a special blip in the radar that bumped it up. 00:37:39.382 --> 00:37:43.344 But then I do think, like there is just there's always going to be 00:37:44.220 --> 00:37:48.808 some portion of the population out there 00:37:49.475 --> 00:37:53.813 that recognizes that inner longing that I talked about. 00:37:53.813 --> 00:37:54.730 Mm hmm. 00:37:55.690 --> 00:37:57.858 And and so I think maybe 00:37:59.151 --> 00:38:01.487 20 years ago, there might not have been 00:38:01.487 --> 00:38:05.866 as many opportunities for people to follow that. Hmm. 00:38:06.242 --> 00:38:08.327 And by that, I mean, like, there might, you know, 00:38:09.287 --> 00:38:12.581 with the technology we have today in the media we have today, 00:38:12.832 --> 00:38:14.208 there's there's an opportunity 00:38:14.208 --> 00:38:18.462 to be exposed to a lot of new things that you maybe wouldn't 00:38:18.462 --> 00:38:21.716 have and to learn about them and to go really deep into that process 00:38:22.466 --> 00:38:25.219 unless you had a mentor or family member who was into it. 00:38:25.511 --> 00:38:26.846 So I think there's a little bit 00:38:26.846 --> 00:38:31.309 of a unique opportunity now to capture that maybe 20% or whatever 00:38:31.309 --> 00:38:34.437 the numbers of people who who feel that inside. 00:38:34.437 --> 00:38:36.689 I'm like, man, I kind of feel like when I watch 00:38:37.106 --> 00:38:39.275 Planet Earth, I feel something there, right? 00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:41.068 But my family doesn't go to national parks, 00:38:41.068 --> 00:38:43.195 my family doesn't hunt, my family doesn't fish. 00:38:43.195 --> 00:38:47.658 We live in Chicago or whatever, and I feel very far removed from that. 00:38:47.658 --> 00:38:51.370 Those people 20 years maybe never would have been able 00:38:51.370 --> 00:38:53.831 to, you know, explore that anymore. 00:38:54.623 --> 00:38:59.754 But now we do have so many opportunities for people to, you know, go down 00:38:59.754 --> 00:39:04.550 that wormhole, you know, of YouTube videos or Instagram accounts 00:39:04.550 --> 00:39:08.679 or podcasts or whatever it might be, and at least explore it a little bit. 00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:12.308 You know, it's there's still a tough gap to bridge 00:39:12.308 --> 00:39:14.602 to get people actually out there still. 00:39:15.394 --> 00:39:18.356 But I think we're seeing that resurgence of interest in these kinds of things. 00:39:18.356 --> 00:39:19.523 And we finally have, 00:39:20.858 --> 00:39:22.902 you know, the media to to 00:39:22.902 --> 00:39:26.322 to to fulfill that desire, at least that curiosity that people have. 00:39:27.656 --> 00:39:29.742 And so I think that's something we're we're seeing. 00:39:30.826 --> 00:39:35.539 There's always going to be this backlash to like the onward, quote 00:39:35.539 --> 00:39:39.377 unquote, progress and, you know, 00:39:39.418 --> 00:39:43.297 of folks moving farther and farther away from nature like that's 00:39:43.297 --> 00:39:44.382 that's where things are going. 00:39:44.382 --> 00:39:45.508 But I think there's going to be 00:39:45.508 --> 00:39:47.593 some percentage of people that are going to say, hey, 00:39:48.552 --> 00:39:51.680 what we're leaving behind here really, really matters. 00:39:51.680 --> 00:39:55.851 And so it'll be interesting to see, you know, where the, 00:39:56.811 --> 00:39:59.355 you know, where the numbers and the demographics continue to go. 00:39:59.355 --> 00:40:02.691 But it certainly seems like outdoor pursuits, 00:40:03.484 --> 00:40:06.445 whether it be hunting, fishing or just more non consumptive 00:40:06.445 --> 00:40:09.782 things, biking, backpacking, camping, all that kind of stuff. 00:40:09.782 --> 00:40:12.284 You know, there continues to be increased interest there. 00:40:12.660 --> 00:40:15.704 And, you know, generally I think that's a good thing. 00:40:16.247 --> 00:40:20.668 So your podcast and because he brought up different modes and media, 00:40:20.668 --> 00:40:24.255 whether it be social media or TV shows, 00:40:24.380 --> 00:40:28.092 podcasting, your podcast is very popular. 00:40:28.092 --> 00:40:30.302 It ranks quite well on an ongoing basis 00:40:30.302 --> 00:40:33.139 when you look at charitable or these different different places. 00:40:33.889 --> 00:40:38.269 How did you find that podcasting and getting your voice out there 00:40:38.310 --> 00:40:42.314 changed the direction of where you're going or amplified the direction? 00:40:44.150 --> 00:40:45.860 Yeah, it was 00:40:45.860 --> 00:40:49.280 surprising a little bit in that I 00:40:50.114 --> 00:40:52.283 it ended up being more impactful than I realized it would be. 00:40:53.033 --> 00:40:55.828 I was fortunate that I was relatively early 00:40:55.995 --> 00:40:58.747 to the podcast wave. 00:40:58.789 --> 00:41:02.543 You know, I started the podcast, you know, I started working on it in 2013 00:41:02.751 --> 00:41:06.505 and launched it in the spring of 14. 00:41:06.505 --> 00:41:11.218 So, you know, just before it really spiked up, you know, 00:41:11.218 --> 00:41:14.388 I was like one of the only deer hunting podcasts out there at the time. 00:41:14.930 --> 00:41:17.516 And, you know, I came to that simply because I was 00:41:17.975 --> 00:41:19.351 I was writing about this stuff. 00:41:19.351 --> 00:41:21.729 I was doing videos about this stuff, 00:41:22.938 --> 00:41:25.107 and I saw a natural hole in the market. 00:41:25.107 --> 00:41:29.111 Basically, I was a podcast consumer already, mostly, 00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:32.406 you know, about business and marketing and different things like that. 00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:34.241 And I saw, Oh man, 00:41:34.241 --> 00:41:36.994 these people are producing something that's really, really useful. 00:41:37.578 --> 00:41:40.789 And I don't see I can't get this kind of information, 00:41:40.789 --> 00:41:43.959 at least at the level that I wanted it in the space 00:41:44.210 --> 00:41:46.587 that I was creating stuff on and consuming stuff with it. 00:41:47.004 --> 00:41:50.007 And so I saw an opportunity there and I knew that was a 00:41:50.007 --> 00:41:53.177 it would be a natural way to continue 00:41:53.344 --> 00:41:55.971 teaching and talking about the stuff that I was doing at the time. 00:41:56.388 --> 00:41:59.600 And so and so, yes, I started it and it was 00:42:00.726 --> 00:42:01.644 a wave 00:42:01.644 --> 00:42:04.855 of of growth and a different level connection 00:42:04.855 --> 00:42:07.816 with my audience that I didn't quite expect. 00:42:07.816 --> 00:42:11.529 So yeah, it grew like gangbusters and really it allowed me to connect 00:42:11.529 --> 00:42:14.657 with my audience in a different way in 00:42:15.407 --> 00:42:19.161 I think a lot of podcasters and even consumers of podcasters 00:42:19.286 --> 00:42:24.333 have now recognized that that's it's a different format than, you know, 00:42:24.667 --> 00:42:28.671 reading an article or watching a YouTube video or whatever. 00:42:29.088 --> 00:42:32.049 It's in many ways feels like you're sitting down 00:42:32.049 --> 00:42:35.594 and having a conversation with someone right there in your earbuds. 00:42:35.928 --> 00:42:40.307 And, you know, sometimes for weeks and weeks on end, months on end. 00:42:40.307 --> 00:42:45.229 So I developed a somewhat one sided intimate relationship 00:42:45.563 --> 00:42:47.648 with tens of thousands of people, right. 00:42:48.357 --> 00:42:50.734 In that, you know, that was a lot different 00:42:50.734 --> 00:42:53.153 than what I was doing when I was just writing a daily blog. 00:42:54.029 --> 00:42:58.784 Well, some of the attributes of someone who's living a stoic lifestyle would be 00:42:59.285 --> 00:43:03.747 having grit, not complaining, being able to push through in difficult times. 00:43:04.540 --> 00:43:09.753 A side effect to that, I would think, is if people don't see your difficulties 00:43:09.753 --> 00:43:12.881 or your struggles and the Jesus nothing, you're complaining 00:43:12.881 --> 00:43:16.093 about, you must have had it all served you on a silver platter. 00:43:16.135 --> 00:43:18.596 Man, it must be easy for Mark to get where he is. 00:43:18.596 --> 00:43:21.056 It was the right time, right place. 00:43:21.348 --> 00:43:22.516 He's lucky right. 00:43:22.516 --> 00:43:24.143 Background, whatever it might be. 00:43:24.143 --> 00:43:25.978 What are some of the 00:43:25.978 --> 00:43:29.815 difficulties that you had to overcome in order to be where you are now? 00:43:31.108 --> 00:43:33.444 Yeah, it's a great point. 00:43:33.444 --> 00:43:36.488 And there's there's kind of two sides of it. 00:43:36.488 --> 00:43:40.159 Like I would say that the 00:43:40.993 --> 00:43:43.621 when it comes to the activity that I talk 00:43:43.621 --> 00:43:46.165 about the most on my podcast, for example, hunting, 00:43:47.458 --> 00:43:50.044 I actually found that by sharing 00:43:50.336 --> 00:43:55.424 the nitty gritty failures along the way that happened to me all the time. 00:43:55.424 --> 00:43:57.718 I failed all the time. 00:43:57.718 --> 00:44:01.347 That's actually what resonated the most with my audience, 00:44:01.847 --> 00:44:05.726 and that stood out compared to a lot of the other stuff, because there's a lot of 00:44:06.518 --> 00:44:09.772 heroes out there who do it all right, and who are amazing what they do. 00:44:09.772 --> 00:44:13.275 I kind of talked about this earlier and that that wasn't me. 00:44:13.525 --> 00:44:17.029 I was this guy who loved it but was still figuring it out. 00:44:17.154 --> 00:44:21.950 And and so by, you know, I can either try to cover up all the mistakes I was making 00:44:21.950 --> 00:44:26.664 in all the failures I was making, or I could embrace them and and share them. 00:44:26.664 --> 00:44:29.667 So I've struggled with all sorts of things when it comes to, 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:32.503 you know, the hunting side of of what I do. 00:44:32.711 --> 00:44:34.797 Right. I've made every mistake you can make. 00:44:35.172 --> 00:44:36.465 I've screwed up. 00:44:36.465 --> 00:44:38.092 I've approached things the wrong way. 00:44:38.092 --> 00:44:40.094 I've done it all. Sure. 00:44:40.135 --> 00:44:43.722 And and I, I decided at times, I 00:44:44.306 --> 00:44:47.476 the times I did not talk about it because I was so embarrassed or so upset. 00:44:47.476 --> 00:44:48.018 Right. 00:44:48.352 --> 00:44:52.398 But the times when I did talk about it, I would get so much feedback from people 00:44:52.523 --> 00:44:54.983 appreciating that I talked about this and how it helped them, 00:44:54.983 --> 00:44:57.986 you know, deal with a similar thing they dealt with or or gave them 00:44:58.821 --> 00:45:00.864 something to think about as they worked on their own journey. 00:45:01.699 --> 00:45:04.076 So I've now gotten to the point where I've realized, like 00:45:04.076 --> 00:45:06.537 I can do the most good by sharing my bad. 00:45:07.329 --> 00:45:10.833 thats a good point, you know, we all. 00:45:11.875 --> 00:45:16.171 we are all human, right? 00:45:16.171 --> 00:45:16.797 Yeah, totally. 00:45:16.797 --> 00:45:21.468 And I think, I think that we can learn most from our most human moments. 00:45:21.468 --> 00:45:24.096 So that's what I've kind of found with, with my platform. 00:45:24.096 --> 00:45:27.141 So I try to share all that now in a way that, you know, 00:45:27.141 --> 00:45:30.227 we can make some kind of positive out of these mistakes. 00:45:31.019 --> 00:45:36.024 So that's a long winded way of saying my hunting failures are well documented, 00:45:36.525 --> 00:45:40.362 I'm sure, and I'm criticized for it sometimes because how does he 00:45:40.404 --> 00:45:42.656 possibly screw up Again, this guy sucks I hear that 00:45:44.658 --> 00:45:45.826 still goes. 00:45:45.826 --> 00:45:50.080 But on the flip side, I think there are some people who might look at, you know, 00:45:51.498 --> 00:45:54.418 where I am today with my platform or the work 00:45:54.418 --> 00:45:58.422 I produce in my career and and say some of those things you said, 00:45:59.131 --> 00:46:01.592 you know, “oh this guy had a silver platter” 00:46:01.592 --> 00:46:05.804 Why is this guy up there who, you know, whatever it might be, this guys overnight 00:46:05.804 --> 00:46:10.559 success, whatever it is and I have been absolutely fortunate. 00:46:10.726 --> 00:46:15.022 I mean there's there's definitely things like I've had privileged opportunities. 00:46:15.063 --> 00:46:17.483 I've had some lucky breaks of it, all those things. 00:46:17.691 --> 00:46:20.778 But I think the thing that probably is 00:46:22.154 --> 00:46:23.071 the stand out 00:46:23.071 --> 00:46:25.282 in my mind, I guess, is not that 00:46:26.158 --> 00:46:30.704 there was any one right thing that I did or that there was any horrible catastrophe 00:46:30.704 --> 00:46:33.665 that I somehow overcame it was rather, 00:46:34.917 --> 00:46:38.086 you know, a million tiny incremental steps 00:46:38.295 --> 00:46:41.173 that have slowly accrued over many, many, many years. 00:46:42.049 --> 00:46:46.261 I you know, for four years I worked, 00:46:46.428 --> 00:46:49.973 you know, a, you know, 60, 70 hour a day job, whatever it was at Google 00:46:50.349 --> 00:46:54.645 while building wired hunt behind the scenes all night, 00:46:54.728 --> 00:46:56.313 you know, staying up till three in the morning, 00:46:56.313 --> 00:47:00.108 waking up at four or whatever it was to get in any kind of time I could 00:47:00.108 --> 00:47:03.737 every single day, grinding away at that thing, never making a dime. 00:47:04.696 --> 00:47:07.783 I get lots and lots of messages from people saying, How do you do what you do? 00:47:07.783 --> 00:47:08.992 I want to make a thing like this. 00:47:08.992 --> 00:47:10.869 I want a podcast, I want to be a YouTuber. 00:47:10.869 --> 00:47:13.372 I want whatever. I want to write a book. 00:47:13.497 --> 00:47:14.248 Mm hmm. 00:47:14.248 --> 00:47:16.083 And they're like, I've been working on for two weeks. 00:47:16.083 --> 00:47:17.668 I've been doing it for the last six months, 00:47:17.668 --> 00:47:19.795 and it's not coming together yet and whatever it might be. 00:47:20.754 --> 00:47:22.297 And I think it's really important to, 00:47:22.297 --> 00:47:26.218 to remember that in most cases there aren't overnight successes. 00:47:26.218 --> 00:47:31.098 Usually it's it's a lot of grinding away, slogging away, trying to get a little bit 00:47:31.098 --> 00:47:34.142 better today and a little bit better tomorrow and do a little bit more. 00:47:34.518 --> 00:47:35.519 And that's been my story. 00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:37.771 It hasn't been that I've had, you know, 00:47:38.605 --> 00:47:42.276 some horrible thing that I had to work through it was just simply sticking 00:47:42.276 --> 00:47:45.571 through the many, many, many, many, many years of, 00:47:47.281 --> 00:47:49.616 you know, not feeling like I was going anywhere with it 00:47:49.867 --> 00:47:51.660 or not feeling like I was making a difference 00:47:51.660 --> 00:47:54.580 or not feeling like anyone listening was listening to what I had to say. 00:47:55.038 --> 00:47:58.375 But, you know, just believe in that purpose enough 00:47:58.375 --> 00:48:01.086 that I would just keep doing it, keep doing it and trying to keep get to 00:48:01.253 --> 00:48:02.045 keep getting better. 00:48:03.255 --> 00:48:05.382 And that, I think, has been my story 00:48:05.507 --> 00:48:10.429 for the last 15 years or so that I've been doing that. 00:48:10.429 --> 00:48:11.972 So essentially been. 00:48:11.972 --> 00:48:16.101 Yeah, So essentially what you're saying is you're an overnight success. 00:48:16.143 --> 00:48:18.937 It only took 15 years. Yes, exactly. 00:48:19.730 --> 00:48:21.273 It's exactly. 00:48:21.273 --> 00:48:24.234 And friend of mine, he would make millions. 00:48:24.234 --> 00:48:26.653 He'd lose millions, make millions, he'd lose millions. 00:48:26.737 --> 00:48:30.949 New endeavor doing something one place and then sell it. 00:48:30.949 --> 00:48:33.118 And he's doing good. Easy come, easy go. 00:48:33.869 --> 00:48:38.457 And at one point he looked at me and I'm like, 00:48:38.457 --> 00:48:42.836 I'm plugging away at my business and I have no business background. 00:48:43.170 --> 00:48:45.672 I'm School of hard knocks. 00:48:45.923 --> 00:48:50.052 Lucky to have gotten through school as it is, and I'm looking at him. 00:48:50.052 --> 00:48:52.387 I'm like, Wow, man, you're doing really good. 00:48:52.387 --> 00:48:56.600 Like when he's on his upswing and he's like, Trav, don't do what I do. 00:48:56.808 --> 00:48:58.310 Keep doing what you're doing. 00:48:58.310 --> 00:49:01.521 The people who I know who are most successful in life 00:49:02.147 --> 00:49:04.650 with their businesses are the ones 00:49:04.983 --> 00:49:09.112 who will plug through and continue to work when the times are tough, 00:49:09.363 --> 00:49:13.075 when there's no money coming in, when everyone is against them, 00:49:13.075 --> 00:49:15.202 and they just keep plugging forward. 00:49:15.202 --> 00:49:16.370 And I've always had a 00:49:17.412 --> 00:49:17.871 that in 00:49:17.871 --> 00:49:21.083 the back of my head as something and I've and found that to be true. 00:49:21.667 --> 00:49:26.630 As I continue, I'm going to make not necessarily mistakes. 00:49:26.630 --> 00:49:29.883 Even as you go through life, you can take different branches. 00:49:29.883 --> 00:49:33.345 I once looked, but another person pointed out and says, Well, maybe that's 00:49:33.345 --> 00:49:37.766 just part of your path as you go through life in those branches, as you call it, 00:49:38.809 --> 00:49:42.562 which didn't turn to be the success that you thought there would be 00:49:42.980 --> 00:49:46.817 are the learning experience that you needed in order to get to where you are. 00:49:47.317 --> 00:49:50.320 So your success story as you're going through. 00:49:51.321 --> 00:49:53.407 And I guess it comes down to what a person 00:49:53.407 --> 00:49:56.451 defines as success for themselves. 00:49:56.451 --> 00:49:58.495 But from an outward experience, 00:49:58.495 --> 00:50:04.334 external appearance of success from maybe a traditional standpoint 00:50:05.419 --> 00:50:08.296 has been that of plugging away on an ongoing basis. 00:50:08.296 --> 00:50:10.507 I find that I find that really interesting. 00:50:11.049 --> 00:50:13.260 And and I guess I would lead to a question as well. 00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:14.344 And you're about to say something. 00:50:14.344 --> 00:50:17.264 What is success to you? 00:50:17.264 --> 00:50:21.268 Yeah, So it's been a changing definition for me, right? 00:50:21.309 --> 00:50:21.476 Right. 00:50:21.476 --> 00:50:24.229 So, so early on, success was 00:50:26.273 --> 00:50:28.358 trying to make 00:50:28.358 --> 00:50:30.652 a living doing this thing I love. 00:50:31.403 --> 00:50:34.823 And then it was trying to like establish myself 00:50:34.823 --> 00:50:38.326 as a credible, you know, 00:50:38.326 --> 00:50:41.747 it was just trying to stake out my place within that community. 00:50:41.747 --> 00:50:44.124 So first I was able to make it work and then it was okay. 00:50:44.583 --> 00:50:48.503 Now I wanted to be a credible, you know, I remember. 00:50:49.129 --> 00:50:49.755 I do. 00:50:49.755 --> 00:50:50.088 I do. 00:50:50.088 --> 00:50:52.674 I'm just I'm this cheesy kind of guy who does like five year goals. 00:50:53.091 --> 00:50:54.384 All right, So thats easy. 00:50:54.384 --> 00:50:54.968 It's good. 00:50:54.968 --> 00:50:57.679 You need a goal. You need a destination. 00:50:57.679 --> 00:50:59.931 So I ran across an old notebook of mine 00:51:00.265 --> 00:51:04.352 from like ten years ago where I had my five year plans. 00:51:04.352 --> 00:51:07.272 Like what I where I wanted to be from a business perspective, 00:51:07.272 --> 00:51:09.232 where I wanted to be from a personal perspective, 00:51:09.232 --> 00:51:11.777 from a financial perspective, all that kind of stuff 00:51:11.777 --> 00:51:15.864 And so one of them was like, I want to be I can't remember the exact wording, 00:51:16.114 --> 00:51:19.576 but something like one of the most respected and, 00:51:20.660 --> 00:51:23.246 you know, impactful 00:51:23.413 --> 00:51:26.041 personalities within the deer hunting world or something like that. 00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:27.834 So stuff like that. 00:51:27.834 --> 00:51:31.671 Like I wanted to have staked out a place at the top of this deer 00:51:31.671 --> 00:51:33.757 hunting community at the time. 00:51:33.757 --> 00:51:37.594 It was those kinds of things and success now has shifted. 00:51:37.844 --> 00:51:39.096 You know, we talked about this a little bit, 00:51:39.096 --> 00:51:42.641 but success now is working towards that larger purpose, which is 00:51:43.016 --> 00:51:47.020 I want to make a serious long term 00:51:47.020 --> 00:51:51.358 positive impact on the future of wildlife in wild places like that's that success. 00:51:51.358 --> 00:51:53.401 Now you could 00:51:54.653 --> 00:51:58.031 I don't care anymore about if I'm some big, 00:51:58.031 --> 00:52:00.700 fancy, successful, well-liked hunter or something 00:52:01.952 --> 00:52:04.663 that that has lost its shine for me in. 00:52:04.663 --> 00:52:07.707 Now I just want to make sure that my kids and their kids 00:52:08.542 --> 00:52:12.379 have wildlife to see and experience and hunt or fish. 00:52:12.379 --> 00:52:16.675 I want to make sure they're still wild places you can go and get lost in. 00:52:16.925 --> 00:52:19.386 I want to make sure there's clean rivers and still have fish in them. 00:52:20.303 --> 00:52:22.514 That's that's. That's it now. 00:52:22.889 --> 00:52:24.057 Well, how old are your kids now? 00:52:25.225 --> 00:52:28.645 I my boys just both had birthdays over the past week, 00:52:28.979 --> 00:52:33.316 so I now I now have a five year old and a three year old. Holy crow. 00:52:33.316 --> 00:52:33.817 Yeah. 00:52:33.817 --> 00:52:36.987 And are they coming out on any of your adventures yet? 00:52:38.071 --> 00:52:39.156 Yeah, a lot. 00:52:39.156 --> 00:52:42.033 They're it's, it's a lot of fun. It's. 00:52:42.075 --> 00:52:43.660 It's changing the game for me. That's. 00:52:43.660 --> 00:52:44.494 That's for sure. 00:52:44.494 --> 00:52:47.122 But they both love the outdoor life. 00:52:47.122 --> 00:52:50.876 And, you know, we're fortunate to be able to spend a lot of time out there 00:52:51.001 --> 00:52:55.255 and just take them, you know, with with us for as much as I possibly can. 00:52:55.255 --> 00:52:59.467 So we spend a lot of time camping and hiking and we've got a boat. 00:52:59.467 --> 00:53:01.970 We float down a lot of rivers and 00:53:01.970 --> 00:53:05.265 throw a lot of rocks, catch a lot of frogs, catch minnows. 00:53:05.640 --> 00:53:06.474 I take the boys. 00:53:06.474 --> 00:53:10.145 I've taken the boys on some hunting trips now with me, a lot of fishing. 00:53:10.979 --> 00:53:13.607 So. So yes, as much as I possibly can. 00:53:13.607 --> 00:53:16.193 They are they're out there and seem to be loving it. 00:53:17.194 --> 00:53:19.279 I was asked to put it a few years ago. 00:53:19.279 --> 00:53:22.073 I was asked put together a video of sighting in a rifle 00:53:22.073 --> 00:53:26.578 and it's up there on YouTube and try my hand at doing some video work. 00:53:26.578 --> 00:53:29.748 And I brought a fishing rod with me because I was down 00:53:29.748 --> 00:53:32.751 by an area where I knew there'd likely be some fish in. 00:53:32.751 --> 00:53:35.754 So when I wasn't filming, I was out there 00:53:36.129 --> 00:53:40.258 catching some fish and carbon fiber rod and I lifted on up in 00:53:40.258 --> 00:53:44.179 there is the area that I was doing it in, had these power lines going overhead. 00:53:44.179 --> 00:53:45.347 And then my first indicator 00:53:45.347 --> 00:53:48.808 should have been what I'm pressing like record on the camera. 00:53:49.100 --> 00:53:52.437 It was making a kind of a snapping sound and I'm getting this feedback 00:53:52.437 --> 00:53:54.606 coming through the ears as I'm listening to the audio. 00:53:54.814 --> 00:53:57.692 And it was I'm lifting up the fishing rod and my rods are 00:53:58.401 --> 00:54:00.403 vibrating in my hand as I do it each time. 00:54:00.403 --> 00:54:04.491 And I think I'm going to cast a little bit lower here, right? Huh. 00:54:04.866 --> 00:54:08.536 But it brings to mind you've been struck by lightning, haven't you? 00:54:09.454 --> 00:54:12.082 Well, I don’t want to say it go so far as say, I was struck 00:54:12.082 --> 00:54:15.377 by lightning, but I felt like I can't even remember what it was called. 00:54:15.377 --> 00:54:15.710 It's. 00:54:17.379 --> 00:54:20.257 It's like the beginning shock of a lightning bolt. 00:54:20.674 --> 00:54:23.301 So I was I was. I was walk. I was fishing. 00:54:23.301 --> 00:54:27.889 I was walking to a river and I was holding my fishing rod up upright. 00:54:28.098 --> 00:54:31.393 And there was a storm coming in and I was, you know, pushing my luck 00:54:31.393 --> 00:54:33.895 and wanted to try to fish before the storm got really gnarly. 00:54:34.479 --> 00:54:39.442 And I was I felt like this vibrating feeling in my arm and me. 00:54:39.442 --> 00:54:41.152 Yeah. And at first not realize what it was. 00:54:41.152 --> 00:54:44.030 And I, I just like, put my hand down, turn around 00:54:44.197 --> 00:54:46.908 looking around and looked up and I'm like, thinking, not realizing. 00:54:46.908 --> 00:54:48.743 And when I did that, it stopped. 00:54:48.743 --> 00:54:50.578 I was kind of looking out, that is what is that? 00:54:50.578 --> 00:54:52.914 And I just noticed this weird thing. 00:54:52.914 --> 00:54:55.583 And then I kept walking, put the rod back over my shoulder and kept walking. 00:54:55.583 --> 00:54:57.127 And then it happened again. 00:54:57.127 --> 00:54:58.128 And that's when I realized, 00:54:58.128 --> 00:55:02.632 Oh, this is electricity coming down through the sky into my fishing pole. 00:55:03.133 --> 00:55:06.094 So I didn't have like a I didn't have a real bolt. 00:55:06.303 --> 00:55:06.886 Okay? 00:55:06.886 --> 00:55:09.139 Just just that there's a word for it. 00:55:09.139 --> 00:55:11.099 I can't get free light right now. 00:55:11.099 --> 00:55:13.810 Something like that's the beginning of those electrons 00:55:13.810 --> 00:55:15.020 starting to connect with you. 00:55:15.020 --> 00:55:17.480 And so I was very lucky that didn't become anything worse. 00:55:17.564 --> 00:55:19.607 No kidding. 00:55:19.607 --> 00:55:21.526 What was your do you, 00:55:22.694 --> 00:55:24.529 I think you've documented a few of these things. 00:55:24.529 --> 00:55:27.198 Do you have big plans for next hunting season coming up? 00:55:27.324 --> 00:55:29.701 Are you able to talk about any big plans that you have? 00:55:30.869 --> 00:55:32.996 Yeah, I mean, 00:55:33.496 --> 00:55:34.914 I wouldn't call them. 00:55:34.956 --> 00:55:39.002 I mean, it was called big plans, but but yeah, I'm filming 00:55:39.044 --> 00:55:42.005 a filming a series of six different hunts 00:55:42.005 --> 00:55:45.050 this coming season across the country. 00:55:45.050 --> 00:55:47.927 Some of those locations are TBD, 00:55:47.927 --> 00:55:52.098 but these will be kind of like short films for the Meat Eater YouTube channel, 00:55:53.308 --> 00:55:57.020 every place from stuff locally here to Michigan to hopefully, 00:55:57.020 --> 00:55:59.147 maybe Montana, some Western states, 00:56:00.023 --> 00:56:02.400 a little bit of the Great Plains in there too 00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:08.031 documenting kind of a wide array of hunting opportunities 00:56:08.031 --> 00:56:10.658 and some conservation stories within those. 00:56:11.910 --> 00:56:14.704 So that's that's on the hunting side and then 00:56:15.288 --> 00:56:18.833 you know hopefully starting to work on some bigger writing projects again, 00:56:18.833 --> 00:56:22.045 tackling some of these things we've talked about that I'm excited about. 00:56:22.962 --> 00:56:26.049 And so that's that's kind of the big stuff staring me in the high hairy, 00:56:26.049 --> 00:56:26.925 all eyeballing. 00:56:26.925 --> 00:56:29.511 Now, I did a podcast with a fellow 00:56:30.345 --> 00:56:33.890 four time bestselling author, nine boxes written, 00:56:33.890 --> 00:56:37.769 and he was working on his 10th book and he says, I'm not going to finish 00:56:37.769 --> 00:56:41.064 writing this book now that A.I.’s out here and they've commoditized 00:56:41.856 --> 00:56:43.483 text and all the rest. 00:56:43.483 --> 00:56:46.152 So he's making he's going to put together a documentary. 00:56:46.152 --> 00:56:51.324 I guess speaking about what he's, his plans there but I wonder how much 00:56:53.618 --> 00:56:54.411 A.I. and the 00:56:54.411 --> 00:56:58.415 the the changing landscape of how people are consuming literature 00:56:58.415 --> 00:57:02.210 is going to impact the future of book writing. 00:57:02.877 --> 00:57:04.254 I wonder. Yeah, I don't know. 00:57:04.254 --> 00:57:06.840 It's something I've something I've wondered about a lot too. 00:57:06.923 --> 00:57:10.009 Just especially with some of his more recent, 00:57:11.052 --> 00:57:13.847 you know, chat bots and stuff over the last three or four or five months 00:57:13.847 --> 00:57:16.182 that are really pretty remarkable. 00:57:16.182 --> 00:57:18.518 It will be interesting to see how that changes things. 00:57:18.518 --> 00:57:22.856 I think it will commoditize, you know, your basic 00:57:23.231 --> 00:57:26.443 copywriting and things like that, you know, basic elements of writing. 00:57:26.443 --> 00:57:30.864 I think it'll become a tool for larger writing projects, 00:57:31.281 --> 00:57:33.950 but I don't see A.I., at least 00:57:33.950 --> 00:57:36.202 not in the short term, replacing 00:57:37.370 --> 00:57:38.997 the human experience. 00:57:38.997 --> 00:57:42.375 That's something that artificial intelligence can't yet have. 00:57:43.668 --> 00:57:45.044 And so 00:57:45.044 --> 00:57:48.173 at least for the next for the foreseeable future, 00:57:48.173 --> 00:57:51.551 I think I'll still have a job there if I continue living life and, 00:57:52.093 --> 00:57:55.972 you know, pursuing things of interest and having something to say. 00:57:56.347 --> 00:57:59.017 I think there isn't a Mark Kenyon robot 00:57:59.017 --> 00:58:01.728 yet that can tell it any realer than I can at least. 00:58:02.312 --> 00:58:04.189 You know, it's funny, I actually typed into it. 00:58:04.189 --> 00:58:05.899 I said, What questions would you ask? 00:58:05.899 --> 00:58:07.066 Mark Kenyon, It comes out. 00:58:07.066 --> 00:58:10.195 I'm like, I don't like any of these things, and I don't think he would either. 00:58:10.195 --> 00:58:12.447 So I think we're safe for a little bit. 00:58:12.447 --> 00:58:15.074 Yes, we'll enjoy it, enjoy 00:58:15.116 --> 00:58:18.453 our paychecks and our our well-being for the moment at least. 00:58:18.536 --> 00:58:24.501 Is there anything that we haven't covered that we should touch on? 00:58:24.501 --> 00:58:25.168 I don't know. 00:58:25.168 --> 00:58:27.921 I mean, I've enjoyed chatting about all this stuff. 00:58:27.921 --> 00:58:31.216 And I just would encourage folks to, you know, 00:58:31.799 --> 00:58:34.552 if you've got an interest in the outdoor 00:58:35.094 --> 00:58:38.806 and the outdoor life, keep keep pursuing it, keep chasing it, get outside. 00:58:39.182 --> 00:58:42.018 You know, all good things come to those outside. 00:58:42.018 --> 00:58:45.647 I'd say if you're looking for something, you can usually find it out there. 00:58:45.647 --> 00:58:48.191 And it's always done me right. 00:58:48.691 --> 00:58:52.195 Well, I'm told that I'm supposed to put it, bookend it, front end, back end. 00:58:52.195 --> 00:58:55.073 So if you are at this point, 00:58:55.073 --> 00:58:58.368 make sure to check out the Wired to Hunt podcast with Mark Kenyon. 00:58:58.826 --> 00:59:00.912 Like, comment, subscribe. 00:59:01.204 --> 00:59:03.206 It helps a lot. Gets word out there. 00:59:03.414 --> 00:59:04.666 Share it with your friends. 00:59:04.666 --> 00:59:07.710 Mark, thank you so much for being on the Silvercore podcast. 00:59:07.710 --> 00:59:09.212 Really appreciate it. 00:59:09.212 --> 00:59:09.796 Yeah, thank you. 00:59:09.796 --> 00:59:18.096 Travis. This was a lot of fun.