WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:11.340 Dave Hoekstra: Welcome to Working Smarter, presented by Calabrio where 00:00:11.340 --> 00:00:15.000 we discuss contact center industry trends and best practices, as well 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:17.820 as sharing success stories and pain points with some of the most innovative 00:00:17.825 --> 00:00:19.170 professionals in the industry. 00:00:19.680 --> 00:00:22.080 We're glad you're joining us to learn and grow together in order to 00:00:22.085 --> 00:00:25.410 provide world-class customer service to each and every one of our clients. 00:00:25.725 --> 00:00:28.275 My name is Dave Hoekstra product evangelist for Col Calabrio. 00:00:28.845 --> 00:00:33.435 And I have several guests joining us today because we are talking 00:00:33.435 --> 00:00:34.755 about workforce management. 00:00:35.205 --> 00:00:37.395 And of course when you talk about workforce management, the last 00:00:37.395 --> 00:00:40.275 thing you want to do is have one person, you want to have three. 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:44.265 So I've got three of my my close associates here that are part of 00:00:44.270 --> 00:00:47.365 the Col Calabrio team, and I'm very, very happy that they are here. 00:00:48.005 --> 00:00:52.125 One of the questions we get asked quite frequently usually has to do with around 00:00:52.125 --> 00:00:54.045 staffing a workforce management team. 00:00:54.635 --> 00:00:56.505 Things like, who should I hire? 00:00:56.505 --> 00:00:58.605 What kind of competencies should I look for? 00:00:58.605 --> 00:01:02.305 What's the ratio of people to agents, right? 00:01:02.330 --> 00:01:04.694 Those things are, they're tough to answer, especially when 00:01:04.700 --> 00:01:05.275 you're first getting started. 00:01:05.415 --> 00:01:09.255 So we decided we wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about those today. 00:01:09.650 --> 00:01:12.230 Now I'm gonna get to all three of my guests, but I want 00:01:12.230 --> 00:01:13.700 to introduce the first one. 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:18.010 He comes to us from many, many years in workforce management. 00:01:18.740 --> 00:01:19.710 Florian Garnet. 00:01:19.730 --> 00:01:22.970 He's our product marketing manager for W F M here at Calabrio. 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.840 But he's also had extensive time in the space here. 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:29.660 So, Florian, first of all, how are you doing today? 00:01:29.660 --> 00:01:32.570 And second of all, tell us, tell us why we should care about what you 00:01:32.570 --> 00:01:32.960 Florian Garnier: say. 00:01:33.300 --> 00:01:34.380 Doing great, Dave. 00:01:34.385 --> 00:01:36.520 Thanks for having me on the podcast today. 00:01:36.520 --> 00:01:36.760 Yeah. 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:39.660 I don't know that you should care about what I have to say, but I do 00:01:39.660 --> 00:01:42.450 have some experience in workforce management, so hopefully that helps. 00:01:42.800 --> 00:01:46.765 I've been in the contact center industry since about 2011. 00:01:46.765 --> 00:01:48.000 I started out as an agent. 00:01:48.339 --> 00:01:51.669 Taking calls for a company that needed somebody to speak 00:01:51.669 --> 00:01:53.020 French, and I could do that. 00:01:53.020 --> 00:01:57.639 So did that for a bit and quickly fell in love because I had some love with 00:01:57.639 --> 00:01:59.940 Excel already with workforce management. 00:02:00.380 --> 00:02:06.925 And over the last few years, really from 2012 through 2020, I ran workforce 00:02:06.940 --> 00:02:08.620 management teams of various sizes. 00:02:08.620 --> 00:02:12.850 The larger one for one of the ride sharing companies here in the US 00:02:13.149 --> 00:02:15.010 where we had about 6,000 agents. 00:02:15.925 --> 00:02:20.635 And we were forecasting, scheduling those agents throughout the globe 00:02:20.635 --> 00:02:25.585 really with you know, BPOs in the Philippines and in South America mainly. 00:02:25.585 --> 00:02:26.455 So, yeah. 00:02:26.705 --> 00:02:30.265 I've been in love and I'm a proud W F M nerd. 00:02:31.675 --> 00:02:32.215 Dave Hoekstra: That's great. 00:02:32.305 --> 00:02:35.215 And so, you know, I know with your experience. 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:40.660 Your, the company was growing pretty fast, to say the least which 00:02:40.660 --> 00:02:44.230 means you had to expand your agent population pretty quickly, which 00:02:44.230 --> 00:02:47.675 also mean conversely, you had to grow your workforce management team. 00:02:48.035 --> 00:02:50.950 You know, like I said earlier, one of the questions we get a lot 00:02:50.950 --> 00:02:51.970 is kind of what kind of ratio. 00:02:52.950 --> 00:02:56.610 Do we see, and I know there's no real definitive objective answer, but when 00:02:56.610 --> 00:03:01.180 we talk about W F M staff versus agents, what's a, what's a good place to start? 00:03:01.610 --> 00:03:02.720 Florian Garnier: Yeah. 00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:06.540 You would really please, our friends at the s WPP who said that there's 00:03:06.540 --> 00:03:08.130 no such thing as industry standards. 00:03:08.370 --> 00:03:10.380 They love to say that and they're not wrong. 00:03:10.830 --> 00:03:14.460 But when it comes to staffing up a WFM team, there are boundaries 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:16.020 that you'd like to respect a bit. 00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:21.390 When it comes to schedulers, that's where you see the most commonly ratios. 00:03:21.460 --> 00:03:25.570 Being applied roughly, I would say one scheduler for every a hundred 00:03:25.570 --> 00:03:28.030 agents seems to be a, a good mark. 00:03:28.030 --> 00:03:31.660 You see that when you need to schedule for 200, 300 folks, 00:03:31.660 --> 00:03:33.049 it becomes really cumbersome. 00:03:33.480 --> 00:03:37.105 When it comes to forecasting, it's a little different. 00:03:37.135 --> 00:03:40.420 It's not so much about the number of agents you're managing, but the number of 00:03:40.420 --> 00:03:43.270 skills that you have to forecast for it. 00:03:43.645 --> 00:03:46.045 Time consuming to forecast for a single skill. 00:03:46.045 --> 00:03:50.395 If you have 20 skills, you, you need to devote quite a few of of your hours in 00:03:50.395 --> 00:03:52.630 a given day or week to, to those skills. 00:03:53.590 --> 00:03:57.355 So you know, looking at ratios more towards the number of skills that 00:03:57.355 --> 00:03:58.775 you have to, to forecast for there. 00:03:59.215 --> 00:04:01.175 And then then you have the third. 00:04:02.320 --> 00:04:05.620 Piece of the triad of workforce management, which is realtime management. 00:04:05.780 --> 00:04:08.680 And there, what I like to think about is the hours of 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:09.970 operations that you're supporting. 00:04:09.970 --> 00:04:15.220 So for rta the number of eyeballs you're gonna need on the screen and how long 00:04:15.220 --> 00:04:18.940 you're gonna need those eyeballs to stick around for, you know, throughout the week. 00:04:18.940 --> 00:04:23.860 So running a 24 7 hour operation might be very different than a five days a week, 00:04:23.950 --> 00:04:26.040 eight to five kind of kind of operation 00:04:27.340 --> 00:04:27.700 Dave Hoekstra: now. 00:04:28.349 --> 00:04:34.109 If doing the math, so you had 60 schedulers working for the team there. 00:04:34.914 --> 00:04:39.194 Florian Garnier: I did not we were running Slim is what I would I would call it. 00:04:39.655 --> 00:04:45.224 But what we did is rely on some of the BPOs and the W F M staff that they 00:04:45.224 --> 00:04:50.354 had at each site to step up on the RTA piece, but also on the scheduler. 00:04:50.359 --> 00:04:56.114 So we were relying on other teams that we managed with a trim down version you 00:04:56.114 --> 00:04:57.825 know, at our headquarters in Nashville. 00:04:58.890 --> 00:05:01.980 Dave Hoekstra: Okay, so that was a bit of a gotcha question and I admittedly 00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:05.550 tried to, tried to stump you on that one because the, clearly there are 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:07.830 economies of scale at play here, right? 00:05:08.010 --> 00:05:12.270 Once you get to a certain number, you don't need the exact one to 00:05:12.270 --> 00:05:16.050 100 ratio that, that kind of comes through it, you know, you start to 00:05:16.050 --> 00:05:18.420 see the, the ability to do that and. 00:05:18.690 --> 00:05:21.630 That's, that's an important thing and that's why it's so hard to answer 00:05:21.630 --> 00:05:23.190 this question is, you know, yes. 00:05:23.190 --> 00:05:26.010 When you're first starting out, you know, you get above a hundred 00:05:26.010 --> 00:05:28.740 agents and one single person is scheduling all of those people. 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:29.880 That's, that's a lot. 00:05:29.885 --> 00:05:33.750 Especially you have to do schedule exceptions and re realtime analysts and 00:05:33.750 --> 00:05:37.471 all of those things, but we, we definitely see some economies of scale there, so. 00:05:37.476 --> 00:05:37.730 Great. 00:05:37.730 --> 00:05:38.789 Thank you for that. 00:05:38.789 --> 00:05:40.230 It's wonderful to have you on. 00:05:40.230 --> 00:05:41.010 Appreciate it. 00:05:41.010 --> 00:05:44.559 The next voice you're about to hear, Is my buddy Kevin Wilk. 00:05:45.269 --> 00:05:49.210 Kevin has been doing this for quite some time and spent a lot of 00:05:49.210 --> 00:05:52.840 time doing a lot of the workforce management, but don't hear it from me. 00:05:52.840 --> 00:05:56.920 Kevin, tell us a little bit about why you're better than Florian and why 00:05:56.920 --> 00:05:58.719 we should understand what's going on. 00:05:59.440 --> 00:05:59.799 I don't know 00:05:59.799 --> 00:06:02.530 Kevin Wilk: about that, Dave, but thanks for the introduction and confidence. 00:06:03.549 --> 00:06:04.729 So yeah. 00:06:04.840 --> 00:06:08.229 I pretty much started in workforce management when I was a teenager. 00:06:08.229 --> 00:06:10.989 My first, well, not in workforce management and customer service. 00:06:11.030 --> 00:06:16.099 Sorry working my way up my first job in high school was doing 00:06:16.099 --> 00:06:18.979 technical support for a small town internet service provider. 00:06:19.070 --> 00:06:23.900 Literally picking up the phone, dealing with customers and 00:06:23.900 --> 00:06:25.090 troubleshooting their issues. 00:06:25.159 --> 00:06:29.909 I kind of worked my way out of that and into more of the technical side 00:06:30.119 --> 00:06:36.690 of things but stayed close to customer service the entire time and eventually 00:06:36.719 --> 00:06:39.159 Found my way into workforce management. 00:06:39.159 --> 00:06:43.240 It was kind of it wasn't anything I really intended at the time. 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:46.750 It was never like the career path that I said, Hmm, I'm 00:06:46.750 --> 00:06:48.190 gonna be a workforce manager. 00:06:48.310 --> 00:06:48.520 But I 00:06:48.520 --> 00:06:52.750 Dave Hoekstra: think there is a 100% ratio of people who never intended to 00:06:52.750 --> 00:06:55.300 be W f M of people that are in W F M. 00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:55.580 Yeah. 00:06:55.930 --> 00:06:57.200 But I got 00:06:57.215 --> 00:07:03.080 Kevin Wilk: in and I found that I really enjoyed the work and the skills and next 00:07:03.080 --> 00:07:07.615 thing I knew I had been working in there for seven in that field for seven years. 00:07:07.615 --> 00:07:10.805 And so that's kind of me in a nutshell. 00:07:11.045 --> 00:07:13.235 Dave Hoekstra: And now you're helping you're helping others 00:07:13.235 --> 00:07:14.826 learn how to use the platform Yeah. 00:07:14.855 --> 00:07:16.925 And spending time with that here at Calabrio. 00:07:16.925 --> 00:07:20.525 So it's really great to have you be a part of this and we value your experience. 00:07:20.765 --> 00:07:24.035 And so the question I kind of want you to address a little bit, this 00:07:24.035 --> 00:07:25.205 is another question we get, is. 00:07:26.505 --> 00:07:30.405 I don't think people write down, you know, when you're in first grade and they say, 00:07:30.405 --> 00:07:31.544 what do you wanna be when you grow up? 00:07:31.575 --> 00:07:34.065 Nobody writes down, I want to be a W F M analyst. 00:07:34.094 --> 00:07:34.484 Right. 00:07:34.724 --> 00:07:37.604 But at a certain point, people who get into contact center 00:07:37.604 --> 00:07:39.135 space, they do see that. 00:07:39.135 --> 00:07:41.205 They kind of maybe want to trend towards that. 00:07:41.474 --> 00:07:44.745 And so if you were to, if someone were to ask you, how could I kind 00:07:44.745 --> 00:07:48.525 of get into workforce management, maybe, how would you do that and what 00:07:48.525 --> 00:07:50.554 kind of skills might you focus on? 00:07:51.604 --> 00:07:51.744 Yeah. 00:07:51.744 --> 00:07:52.534 I 00:07:52.564 --> 00:07:55.515 Kevin Wilk: think probably the most important skills in 00:07:55.515 --> 00:07:58.625 workforce management are the communication and the people skills. 00:07:58.655 --> 00:08:00.795 W F M is about relationships. 00:08:00.795 --> 00:08:05.385 It's about your relationship with operations, with your HR teams 00:08:05.715 --> 00:08:08.595 with all of the other departments that make up the organization 00:08:08.595 --> 00:08:09.975 and make the business function. 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:13.795 So first and foremost for me is communication skills. 00:08:13.825 --> 00:08:16.365 I think second is a good. 00:08:16.849 --> 00:08:24.289 Analytical background, being able to think through problems and propose you know, 00:08:24.289 --> 00:08:29.849 and, and really work out the solution and be able, probably third in that would be, 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:32.610 Dave Hoekstra: Just working 00:08:32.625 --> 00:08:36.554 Kevin Wilk: on your Excel skills to be able to work with data and be 00:08:36.554 --> 00:08:40.664 able to present it in a way that is understood by your audience so that 00:08:40.664 --> 00:08:42.225 you're able to get your point across. 00:08:42.225 --> 00:08:46.569 Because a lot of what you do in W F M revolves around numbers and 00:08:46.569 --> 00:08:48.704 those can be difficult sometimes to, 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:49.454 Dave Hoekstra: to communicate. 00:08:49.745 --> 00:08:50.035 Yeah. 00:08:50.255 --> 00:08:57.645 So f one of the things I notice about US workforce management nerds is there seems 00:08:57.650 --> 00:09:00.795 to be really strong love for spreadsheets. 00:09:01.230 --> 00:09:04.520 And I'm being nice because some of us don't like Excel as much as the other 00:09:04.520 --> 00:09:04.890 Kevin Wilk: one. 00:09:05.230 --> 00:09:09.540 But can you express that in a pivot table, that idea, because that's what I need 00:09:09.540 --> 00:09:10.080 Dave Hoekstra: in my life. 00:09:10.140 --> 00:09:14.610 And see, you stole my thunder, Kevin, because then you really 00:09:14.610 --> 00:09:17.940 get to know the W f N nerds when you talk about pivot tables. 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:23.370 If pivot tables make you excited, you just might be a W F M nerd, right? 00:09:23.370 --> 00:09:26.700 Because it's a very common thread in what, what we do, right? 00:09:27.074 --> 00:09:31.635 And I, you hear the story over and over again when you ask people how they get 00:09:31.635 --> 00:09:35.775 into this business, they said, well, I was working at the contact center 00:09:35.775 --> 00:09:39.225 and I was pretty good with Excel and one thing, you know, led to another 00:09:39.225 --> 00:09:40.545 and I was in workforce management. 00:09:40.545 --> 00:09:42.855 It seems to be very common. 00:09:42.855 --> 00:09:44.656 It's, it's the way I got into it. 00:09:44.895 --> 00:09:49.984 I know that the, it's the way you guys kind of all fell into it and You know, 00:09:50.085 --> 00:09:56.835 that's the really interesting part is when people want to get into this space, you do 00:09:56.835 --> 00:09:58.755 have to have that analytical background. 00:09:58.995 --> 00:10:01.485 And then usually what they do is they find out that they kind of 00:10:01.485 --> 00:10:02.865 like the people part of it too. 00:10:03.449 --> 00:10:04.349 And that's what happened to me. 00:10:04.349 --> 00:10:05.910 I was, I wasn't into math. 00:10:05.910 --> 00:10:08.280 I didn't, I didn't, I hated math in high school. 00:10:08.280 --> 00:10:13.569 I was, I chose my college major specifically because there was no math. 00:10:13.959 --> 00:10:16.290 That's, that, that's what's going on. 00:10:16.290 --> 00:10:18.479 And so there seems to be there. 00:10:18.569 --> 00:10:21.130 You know, we talk a lot about workforce management being 00:10:21.130 --> 00:10:23.160 like part art, part science. 00:10:23.430 --> 00:10:26.729 Some people really like the science part and some people really like the art part. 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:28.410 I was definitely one of those people. 00:10:28.920 --> 00:10:29.219 Yeah. 00:10:29.219 --> 00:10:33.150 Florian Garnier: And I think it's Also the curiosity, right? 00:10:33.150 --> 00:10:37.680 That comes, it's not just loving Excel or being able to love pivot tables, but it's 00:10:37.680 --> 00:10:42.870 also staying curious about the business, understanding why the goals, why the 00:10:42.870 --> 00:10:47.760 results, and through, you know, through your curiosity, just keep on digging and. 00:10:49.040 --> 00:10:49.520 Loving it. 00:10:49.520 --> 00:10:52.340 That's, that's how, that's how I fell into it, is because I wanted 00:10:52.340 --> 00:10:55.939 to understand why service level wasn't achieved on a given day and 00:10:56.180 --> 00:10:57.650 how staffing played a part in that. 00:10:58.370 --> 00:10:59.750 Dave Hoekstra: And such a key word. 00:10:59.990 --> 00:11:00.800 Curiosity. 00:11:00.860 --> 00:11:04.069 Gosh, that word just keeps coming up over and over again when we talk about 00:11:04.400 --> 00:11:05.841 the kind of people that we wanna look. 00:11:06.170 --> 00:11:10.699 And so that's a great segue, Florian into meeting our third guest here. 00:11:10.699 --> 00:11:12.459 And he's been so good and so quiet. 00:11:12.459 --> 00:11:16.120 Joe Presutti, love, love that you're here, Joe. 00:11:16.530 --> 00:11:18.199 Joe's been doing this for a long time. 00:11:18.199 --> 00:11:20.150 He is led lots of W F M teams. 00:11:20.150 --> 00:11:22.160 But again, don't hear it from me. 00:11:22.160 --> 00:11:22.880 Hear it from Joe. 00:11:22.880 --> 00:11:25.100 Joe, tell us a little bit about, about your background. 00:11:25.160 --> 00:11:25.370 All right, 00:11:25.370 --> 00:11:25.980 Joe Prescutti: thanks Dave. 00:11:26.680 --> 00:11:32.160 So I came into the space because I, I, I was in a insurance company. 00:11:32.390 --> 00:11:34.610 I, they were starting a W F M team. 00:11:34.610 --> 00:11:35.640 I didn't know what it was. 00:11:36.469 --> 00:11:37.955 They were like, Hey, you should apply for this. 00:11:38.745 --> 00:11:41.085 So I did and I got an interview. 00:11:41.085 --> 00:11:43.665 They were asking questions about numbers and data. 00:11:43.665 --> 00:11:45.435 They really didn't talk about workforce management. 00:11:45.435 --> 00:11:47.925 It was basically just, you know, numbers and data. 00:11:48.795 --> 00:11:52.185 They hired me and I had to build a team, so I was, it 00:11:52.185 --> 00:11:54.285 was me as like the forecaster. 00:11:54.285 --> 00:11:57.435 And then I was able to hire two real-time analysts and then we grew 00:11:57.435 --> 00:12:00.795 and we had, you know, we added on two more realtime analysts and two 00:12:00.795 --> 00:12:02.535 more forecasting and schedulers. 00:12:02.535 --> 00:12:03.045 So it was. 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:05.120 Something where it started from the ground and we were able to 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:06.230 build it from the ground up. 00:12:06.650 --> 00:12:10.460 And I think a lot of what we're you guys are talking about with analytical 00:12:10.460 --> 00:12:15.230 thinking and communication skills, that, that all, you know, goes into it. 00:12:15.230 --> 00:12:19.070 And whenever you are building something like that from the ground up, you, 00:12:19.130 --> 00:12:22.070 you're, you're looking at people inside the organization who would be good 00:12:22.070 --> 00:12:23.900 for this role inside the organization. 00:12:23.900 --> 00:12:26.630 Cuz you don't really, at that point, it was 2004. 00:12:27.420 --> 00:12:30.480 There weren't really a lot of people out there externally who had the, 00:12:30.660 --> 00:12:33.420 the knowledge and skill related to workforce management that you 00:12:33.420 --> 00:12:35.189 would bring in from the outside. 00:12:35.194 --> 00:12:37.170 So I was looking inside for that kind of talent. 00:12:38.430 --> 00:12:38.699 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah. 00:12:38.699 --> 00:12:46.890 And you know, we, we all know someone who is very analytical, but might 00:12:46.890 --> 00:12:48.930 not be the best choice, right. 00:12:48.959 --> 00:12:50.260 For this particular role. 00:12:50.939 --> 00:12:56.355 Now when the team gets larger, You have a, it's a little easier to kind of hide 00:12:56.355 --> 00:13:00.645 the analytical person behind the, in the dark room, behind the curtain, right? 00:13:00.645 --> 00:13:02.215 And please never talk to anyone. 00:13:02.805 --> 00:13:07.800 But when you're a smaller team, You, those analytical, analytical people can 00:13:07.800 --> 00:13:11.579 often have to be responsible for going out and dealing with the, the, the masses. 00:13:11.579 --> 00:13:14.699 And, and yes, I know times have changed a little bit since we 00:13:14.704 --> 00:13:15.870 all kind of got into this group. 00:13:15.870 --> 00:13:18.209 Everything we used to do is very face-to-face, right? 00:13:18.214 --> 00:13:20.699 You always had the opportunity to walk up to someone's desk. 00:13:20.699 --> 00:13:25.430 And nowadays with remote work and hybrid working lots of different 00:13:25.829 --> 00:13:27.839 choices out there that, that spin that. 00:13:27.839 --> 00:13:31.560 So this question is kind of for you, Joe, and for you Florian. 00:13:31.589 --> 00:13:32.270 I know that. 00:13:32.690 --> 00:13:37.830 A lot of times we get inquiries or I see them online and nobody asks me 00:13:37.830 --> 00:13:41.160 directly, but I see these on, on some of the message boards and things like that. 00:13:41.160 --> 00:13:45.870 Like, Hey, I, I have an interview for a W F M position coming up 00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:48.850 and what, what should I expect? 00:13:49.330 --> 00:13:51.662 And so Joe, let me start with you. 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:55.800 When you were kind of bringing in those, those team members, what kind 00:13:55.800 --> 00:13:57.680 of things were part of the interview? 00:13:57.870 --> 00:14:00.150 You've already mentioned some of the skills that you looked for, but. 00:14:00.555 --> 00:14:03.955 How did you really flesh those out and make sure that those people 00:14:03.975 --> 00:14:05.205 had those actual skills that you 00:14:05.205 --> 00:14:05.565 Joe Prescutti: needed? 00:14:05.895 --> 00:14:08.865 Well, I think the most important part, and I, you know, Kevin mentioned this is 00:14:08.865 --> 00:14:13.335 the people skills, so I was, I was asking questions about how they, how they are 00:14:13.335 --> 00:14:17.505 in a team environment, how they deal with conflict in a team environment, because 00:14:17.510 --> 00:14:19.036 that's ultimately what's going to happen. 00:14:19.041 --> 00:14:22.485 If you're a real-time analyst, you're going to have conflict with. 00:14:22.905 --> 00:14:25.635 The operations team, whenever you ask where somebody is, why aren't 00:14:25.635 --> 00:14:26.775 they on break at the right time? 00:14:26.780 --> 00:14:28.095 Why aren't, why aren't they going to lunch? 00:14:28.605 --> 00:14:30.165 Why are they not ready for so long? 00:14:30.555 --> 00:14:33.075 Those kind of things, you have to be able to ask and be comfortable with that. 00:14:33.405 --> 00:14:37.545 So I was bringing in people who had very, they were friendly, 00:14:37.545 --> 00:14:39.985 people who understood data. 00:14:40.395 --> 00:14:43.905 Team players who could step in for someone else on the team if they 00:14:43.905 --> 00:14:45.405 weren't there or if they needed help. 00:14:46.035 --> 00:14:51.975 So that, that was basically my, you know, and also, When I, we first started again, 00:14:51.975 --> 00:14:55.694 it 2004, we didn't have the chats in the operational, you know, world there. 00:14:56.205 --> 00:15:00.555 When we had calls in q I had to have my realtime analyst stand 00:15:00.560 --> 00:15:05.175 up and yell how many calls were in Q and people hated that. 00:15:05.444 --> 00:15:08.566 And even the people, even the realtime analysts hated that. 00:15:08.635 --> 00:15:11.444 So that was the kind of environment we were in. 00:15:11.444 --> 00:15:14.025 So I wanted to bring in people that could do things like that and kind 00:15:14.025 --> 00:15:17.444 of put themselves out there, but also understand the data piece of it. 00:15:18.375 --> 00:15:21.435 Dave Hoekstra: Now was this, was this like, did they just stand up and yell? 00:15:21.435 --> 00:15:22.085 Seven? 00:15:22.335 --> 00:15:26.775 Joe Prescutti: They would yell, they, well, I won't say we had it's proprietary 00:15:26.775 --> 00:15:29.355 with the, the, the companies we worked with, but they would yell at the 00:15:29.355 --> 00:15:33.405 company name how many calls were in queue and sometimes they would stand 00:15:33.405 --> 00:15:37.314 up and yell that we had four people and not ready on that, that in that guy. 00:15:37.335 --> 00:15:40.005 So it was just there a lot of yelling in the, in the call center. 00:15:41.055 --> 00:15:44.595 Dave Hoekstra: So you guys could see though that there's no real great 00:15:44.595 --> 00:15:49.230 answer to this and so, Florian was, was there anything you, you did 00:15:49.230 --> 00:15:52.380 in particular, I know a big thing that comes across in a lot of these 00:15:52.650 --> 00:15:54.960 interviews is, are tests, right? 00:15:54.965 --> 00:15:56.490 We, we, we do tests. 00:15:56.490 --> 00:15:58.440 Did were, were you responsible for any of those? 00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:00.870 Florian Garnier: Yeah, I've done a few of those. 00:16:00.870 --> 00:16:01.770 Truly. 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:08.020 At first, the main thing I was looking for is somebody who has empathy that's 00:16:08.020 --> 00:16:12.300 gonna join a W F M team is somebody who knows what a high occupancy day 00:16:12.305 --> 00:16:15.365 feels like getting calls back to back. 00:16:15.465 --> 00:16:17.670 It's a, it's a different feeling. 00:16:17.675 --> 00:16:20.440 So I was looking for somebody who had some experience in the contact center 00:16:20.540 --> 00:16:25.620 as an agent, ideally so that they know that when they're impacting somebody's 00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:27.240 schedules, they know they're playing with. 00:16:27.265 --> 00:16:30.415 People's, you know, lives day in and day out. 00:16:30.865 --> 00:16:36.355 But yes, were there occasions where we set up tests to test the the 00:16:36.355 --> 00:16:38.185 Excel skills or the chops overall? 00:16:38.185 --> 00:16:38.905 Absolutely. 00:16:38.910 --> 00:16:43.045 Where we, there's one specific interview process that comes to 00:16:43.045 --> 00:16:44.814 my mind where we had set up a. 00:16:45.449 --> 00:16:48.959 Excel sheet with millions of data points in it. 00:16:49.319 --> 00:16:53.370 Some erroneous data points, some real hidden gems in the, in 00:16:53.370 --> 00:16:55.359 the middle of of the data set. 00:16:55.800 --> 00:17:02.339 And the goal was not only for the interviewee to figure out where the 00:17:02.489 --> 00:17:06.659 anomalies were in the data set, but also how they would present that 00:17:06.659 --> 00:17:11.954 data set at a more executive level and, and just overall build a sheet. 00:17:11.970 --> 00:17:15.665 So the guy we ended up hiring, Now works at Collabreo when, whenever 00:17:15.665 --> 00:17:20.855 we did this and had built this spreadsheet with 17 different tabs 00:17:20.855 --> 00:17:25.370 and a different approach to to the, to the challenges that were presented. 00:17:25.780 --> 00:17:31.895 The explanation that he provided with it is really what sold the, the role for him. 00:17:32.225 --> 00:17:37.115 And yeah, years later still work with him and, and the dude is crushing 00:17:37.115 --> 00:17:38.855 it out there and he still likes you. 00:17:39.515 --> 00:17:40.775 He still loves me for some 00:17:40.775 --> 00:17:41.135 Joe Prescutti: reason. 00:17:42.825 --> 00:17:43.065 That. 00:17:43.065 --> 00:17:43.635 That's awesome. 00:17:43.725 --> 00:17:46.545 You know another thing that, as you're talking about empathy, I was thinking 00:17:46.545 --> 00:17:50.745 about was when you bring those pe, when you're talking to those people about 00:17:50.745 --> 00:17:52.065 W F M, you wanna bring someone in. 00:17:52.065 --> 00:17:55.065 If you're bringing 'em from the inside, even as well, that can keep 00:17:55.065 --> 00:17:57.915 a secret, that cannot, well it is not gonna go out to the floor and talk to 00:17:57.915 --> 00:17:59.145 their friends about what's happening. 00:17:59.145 --> 00:18:03.254 Cuz you're gonna get information as a workforce management person 00:18:03.254 --> 00:18:07.195 around people's, you know, you know, terminations, people that are quitting. 00:18:08.155 --> 00:18:11.910 Maybe there's HR implications that you're aware of cuz you're scheduling 00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:13.470 time for them to be off the phones. 00:18:13.860 --> 00:18:15.720 You don't want somebody that's gonna come in and say, oh, my 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:17.880 friend is being let go on Friday. 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.830 I'm gonna go let them know that's happening. 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.130 So you have to have some kind of, you know, tact when it 00:18:23.130 --> 00:18:24.180 comes to that kind of stuff too. 00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:25.780 And that was something I asked about in every interview. 00:18:27.225 --> 00:18:27.675 Dave Hoekstra: Okay. 00:18:27.735 --> 00:18:28.215 Tact. 00:18:28.245 --> 00:18:31.695 So I mean the, what it really comes down to is people skills, right? 00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:31.965 Right. 00:18:31.965 --> 00:18:36.705 The, the ability to stop for a second and say, okay, I'm dealing with human 00:18:36.705 --> 00:18:39.575 beings about this as well, and so, Now. 00:18:39.675 --> 00:18:43.755 Now, Kevin, when we were talking earlier, when we started talking about 00:18:43.755 --> 00:18:49.245 these tests, you, you, you, you got a little bit upset and I, I'm curious. 00:18:49.245 --> 00:18:49.755 That's a little salty 00:18:49.755 --> 00:18:50.055 Kevin Wilk: maybe. 00:18:50.235 --> 00:18:51.045 Yeah, a little 00:18:51.045 --> 00:18:51.435 Dave Hoekstra: salty. 00:18:51.435 --> 00:18:52.595 That's a, that's a good term. 00:18:53.125 --> 00:18:55.365 Tell me about why this particular process of. 00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:58.889 Of testing employees or testing interviewees. 00:18:58.950 --> 00:18:59.340 Got you. 00:18:59.340 --> 00:19:00.720 A little bit hot on the collar. 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:01.500 Don't get me wrong. 00:19:01.530 --> 00:19:04.500 Kevin Wilk: It's, it's really good to understand the fundamentals and 00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:07.290 the basics, and that's kind of what you're getting at when you're, you're 00:19:07.290 --> 00:19:09.270 trying to do a lot of these tests, but 00:19:09.690 --> 00:19:11.340 Dave Hoekstra: a lot of times the. 00:19:12.689 --> 00:19:16.020 Kevin Wilk: The things that we're testing on are not things that are 00:19:16.020 --> 00:19:17.655 going to be part of your normal day. 00:19:17.715 --> 00:19:22.830 I feel like, at least in my situation, you know, we had W F M scheduling software. 00:19:22.830 --> 00:19:25.169 I never had to build a forecast by hand. 00:19:25.499 --> 00:19:28.770 You know, I never had to do things in Excel. 00:19:29.285 --> 00:19:34.595 Ever, you know, in the position I was in, I did things in Excel outside of 00:19:34.600 --> 00:19:39.125 that for other reasons, and my Excel skills were extremely valuable for that. 00:19:39.635 --> 00:19:45.005 But the, I felt, the, the questions tend to be those sort 00:19:45.010 --> 00:19:48.215 of like w f m catch questions. 00:19:48.220 --> 00:19:53.645 You, you see a lot, you know, calculating occupancy and shrinkage and understanding, 00:19:54.065 --> 00:19:56.075 you know, the, those basic concepts. 00:19:56.105 --> 00:19:57.725 But in practice, they. 00:19:59.450 --> 00:20:03.110 They maybe aren't as useful, but still good to understand. 00:20:03.380 --> 00:20:06.290 So it just, it felt kind of like a gotcha. 00:20:06.290 --> 00:20:11.060 In the interview when I'm going in there and they're like asking about occupancy 00:20:11.060 --> 00:20:15.380 and I have to, you know, wait a minute, I only know this terminology because of 00:20:15.385 --> 00:20:20.390 this particular, you know, W F M thing and like, we don't even use it as a metric. 00:20:20.390 --> 00:20:22.580 It's not a KPI that we're tracking right now. 00:20:23.610 --> 00:20:23.900 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah. 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:24.540 And yeah. 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:24.940 And. 00:20:25.320 --> 00:20:29.640 I will say, like, what I see sometimes posted online is, are things like, 00:20:29.970 --> 00:20:33.870 yeah, I'm, I'm gonna have them take a forecast and then build a, 00:20:33.930 --> 00:20:37.050 a, a staffing requirement and then build a schedule on top of it. 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:37.590 And it's 00:20:37.590 --> 00:20:40.020 Kevin Wilk: like, and then I might even put errors in my data when 00:20:40.025 --> 00:20:40.590 Dave Hoekstra: I do that. 00:20:40.700 --> 00:20:40.900 Yes. 00:20:41.450 --> 00:20:42.840 That, that's just evil. 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:43.420 That's evil. 00:20:44.550 --> 00:20:44.790 Yeah. 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:52.110 And, and the, but what, what you see is, is you what hopefully the goal is. 00:20:52.370 --> 00:20:56.570 Is not to say, okay, this is a test that if you make less than a 00:20:56.570 --> 00:20:58.730 90, you don't make it onto this. 00:20:58.970 --> 00:21:04.040 It's really about how do you apply the knowledge that you've learned in the past. 00:21:04.070 --> 00:21:04.430 Right. 00:21:04.580 --> 00:21:06.695 How can you get Yeah, it's about those analytics. 00:21:07.045 --> 00:21:07.425 Sorry. 00:21:07.425 --> 00:21:07.625 Yeah. 00:21:07.625 --> 00:21:08.120 No, no, no. 00:21:08.270 --> 00:21:08.760 It's the analytics. 00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:09.650 That's exactly what, it's just 00:21:09.655 --> 00:21:12.710 Kevin Wilk: thinking and working through problems, you know, how are you going 00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:17.480 to approach it and get to the solution and can you explain and justify how you 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:18.020 Florian Garnier: got there? 00:21:18.490 --> 00:21:22.990 I think that's the key point is how you explain, you know, what you are seeing. 00:21:22.990 --> 00:21:27.070 Because in the end, workforce management, yes, there's some analytics 00:21:27.070 --> 00:21:30.280 that go into it, but it's how you handle conversations with people. 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.389 When it comes to scheduling or when it comes to your executive 00:21:34.395 --> 00:21:37.240 leadership team, is how you present challenges to them that have. 00:21:37.690 --> 00:21:41.020 Occurred and that you have identified in your contact center your 00:21:41.020 --> 00:21:42.850 ability to communicate with others. 00:21:42.850 --> 00:21:46.480 Because workforce management partners with HR and with marketing and with 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:50.950 finance and with the product team, you have to be able to talk to other people. 00:21:50.955 --> 00:21:54.310 You're, you know, oftentimes you think about the W F M team as what 00:21:54.310 --> 00:21:58.480 we alluded to earlier, the person in the dark room without the windows in 00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:59.920 the closet, just crunching numbers. 00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:03.520 But now really it's somebody who has empathy, who can who is 00:22:03.520 --> 00:22:05.620 curious and can talk to others. 00:22:06.390 --> 00:22:06.540 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah. 00:22:06.540 --> 00:22:09.360 If I had to say like, what's my biggest challenge? 00:22:09.690 --> 00:22:13.170 What, like that I remember from workforce management, right? 00:22:13.170 --> 00:22:17.280 In all the years that I did it, it was, it was those discussions with 00:22:17.280 --> 00:22:20.820 the team leads about, I need so and so to get back on the phones. 00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:22.530 Like, I'm sorry. 00:22:22.530 --> 00:22:25.290 I know you want, you need to do a training with them, but we 00:22:25.290 --> 00:22:26.730 have to get these calls answered. 00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:29.970 It's, it's the conversations and the discussions I had. 00:22:29.975 --> 00:22:34.680 It was never figuring out how to create a weighted average in Excel. 00:22:35.100 --> 00:22:39.870 It was never about crunching a particular forecast and making sure this part was 00:22:39.875 --> 00:22:41.190 weighted more heavily than the other. 00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:43.550 It was always about those conversations. 00:22:43.550 --> 00:22:44.389 And so, Joe, go ahead. 00:22:44.389 --> 00:22:44.899 You were gonna make a 00:22:44.899 --> 00:22:45.230 Joe Prescutti: point. 00:22:45.230 --> 00:22:48.110 Yeah, well, just what you were saying, I, you know, I had a daily, every 00:22:48.110 --> 00:22:51.830 morning we had a meeting and we had all the, all the different managers from 00:22:51.830 --> 00:22:53.060 every department come to that meeting. 00:22:53.389 --> 00:22:56.600 And W F M would explain here are priorities for the day. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.340 So if we're going to be asking later for people to help somewhere else, or 00:23:01.340 --> 00:23:06.110 maybe going home because we have too much staff on that day, it we, I had that. 00:23:06.735 --> 00:23:09.254 The, the leader of that call would RO have rotations. 00:23:09.254 --> 00:23:12.225 So we would have an RTA do it one day, a forecaster, do it one day. 00:23:12.230 --> 00:23:13.095 I would do it one day. 00:23:13.485 --> 00:23:16.995 But I think having those conversations every day and people, we would 00:23:16.995 --> 00:23:19.725 explain, here's where we are, month of date on our service levels. 00:23:20.175 --> 00:23:22.965 Here's where we are in our abandoned numbers, you know, this 00:23:22.970 --> 00:23:24.135 is our attendance for the day. 00:23:24.139 --> 00:23:27.225 We would give all that information in that morning meeting we met for a half hour, 00:23:27.645 --> 00:23:31.680 and I think that when we started doing that, A lot of those conversations were a 00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:35.040 lot easier to have cause people understood where it was coming from and when we 00:23:35.040 --> 00:23:38.460 would go out to a team lead in during the day and say, look, we're gonna cancel 00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:39.990 your team meeting today because of this. 00:23:39.990 --> 00:23:41.790 They, they understood why. 00:23:45.825 --> 00:23:48.225 Kevin Wilk: Yeah, I, I think those are really good points. 00:23:48.255 --> 00:23:53.055 There's like a sort of this balance between the needs of the business 00:23:53.055 --> 00:23:57.135 and recognizing that these are individual people ultimately, and 00:23:57.140 --> 00:24:00.585 at some level they're individual problems that need to be dealt with. 00:24:00.585 --> 00:24:04.005 So definitely having those, those skills is really 00:24:04.005 --> 00:24:04.485 Dave Hoekstra: important. 00:24:04.485 --> 00:24:04.665 Right. 00:24:05.595 --> 00:24:06.015 Yeah. 00:24:06.135 --> 00:24:06.405 The. 00:24:08.085 --> 00:24:11.835 It's, it's the age old question that I'm sure you guys have said hundreds 00:24:11.835 --> 00:24:16.455 of times in your career, if not more, is if they understand the why. 00:24:17.205 --> 00:24:19.305 Yeah, it makes it so much easier to digest. 00:24:19.305 --> 00:24:22.245 And, and you know, I'll admit, at the beginning of my career, I wasn't 00:24:22.245 --> 00:24:24.195 very good at explaining the why. 00:24:24.195 --> 00:24:28.515 It was like, because they're on my butt to get these people back on the phones. 00:24:28.515 --> 00:24:33.285 That's why, because I said so, but if, but if we, if we do a better job, and, 00:24:33.285 --> 00:24:34.295 and that's the thing is sometimes. 00:24:35.005 --> 00:24:38.275 You know, contact centers can be understaffed for many months in a row 00:24:38.275 --> 00:24:41.335 and everybody's feeling the pressure and it's like, seriously, I haven't had a 00:24:41.335 --> 00:24:45.355 one-on-one with my agents in like months and now you want to cancel this one again. 00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:45.740 And yeah. 00:24:45.950 --> 00:24:48.175 I, I, I'm sorry. 00:24:48.175 --> 00:24:50.845 I understand right tho those were the harder conversations 00:24:50.905 --> 00:24:53.595 Joe Prescutti: and you know, there were times where you know, we would have. 00:24:55.125 --> 00:24:58.515 Those conversations where we wanted, we wanted to cancel a meeting where we 00:24:58.515 --> 00:25:00.405 wanted to pull somebody onto the phone. 00:25:00.410 --> 00:25:05.175 Cause we had calls in queue and I always told people we can discuss and argue 00:25:05.175 --> 00:25:09.285 about this later, but let's, when we ask someone to be on the phone, put 'em 00:25:09.285 --> 00:25:10.696 on the phone, there's a reason for it. 00:25:11.065 --> 00:25:11.285 And. 00:25:11.935 --> 00:25:12.835 Right or wrong. 00:25:12.925 --> 00:25:14.005 That's what I wanted them to do. 00:25:14.005 --> 00:25:17.365 Like I I, we can discuss it later and, and if it, if we were wrong for doing 00:25:17.365 --> 00:25:18.535 it, then we can talk about that later. 00:25:18.535 --> 00:25:22.945 Cuz I, you know, w f m in my, in my world has always been responsible 00:25:22.945 --> 00:25:25.015 for those SLAs and those ASAs. 00:25:25.495 --> 00:25:29.605 So I wanted to them to understand that we're never going to ask for something 00:25:29.605 --> 00:25:31.555 because we just are trying to get at you. 00:25:32.185 --> 00:25:35.455 But if there's a problem with it, do it and we'll talk about it later. 00:25:36.764 --> 00:25:38.564 Dave Hoekstra: Oh, I asked for stuff just to get at 'em. 00:25:39.254 --> 00:25:39.975 No, I'm just kidding. 00:25:40.455 --> 00:25:41.024 I wouldn't do that. 00:25:41.024 --> 00:25:41.764 Don't do that. 00:25:41.925 --> 00:25:43.365 WFM is out there. 00:25:43.365 --> 00:25:45.044 Listen, go ahead Kevin. 00:25:45.050 --> 00:25:47.415 You were gonna say. 00:25:47.475 --> 00:25:51.165 Kevin Wilk: Yeah, I, I think that like, especially with operations, you know, 00:25:51.170 --> 00:25:57.015 it's an N W F M, it's so easy to get focused on the numbers portion of it too. 00:25:57.015 --> 00:26:01.545 And I would just wanted to throw the thought out there to encourage people to 00:26:01.545 --> 00:26:06.795 like, focus on the behaviors that change the numbers and not so much the numbers. 00:26:07.015 --> 00:26:07.655 Dave Hoekstra: I, 00:26:08.115 --> 00:26:08.555 I 00:26:08.585 --> 00:26:11.910 Kevin Wilk: just feel like a lot of times you're talking to, you know, 00:26:11.940 --> 00:26:15.389 people about your call volume or your abandon rate or other things like that, 00:26:15.389 --> 00:26:19.650 and that doesn't translate to what they need to do to actually affect change. 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:22.920 It's much better to talk about the behaviors we need to do, you know, 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:24.389 we need agents to wrap up faster. 00:26:24.810 --> 00:26:27.370 We need these other things to happen. 00:26:27.730 --> 00:26:28.380 And 00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:29.730 Dave Hoekstra: address those. 00:26:29.850 --> 00:26:30.030 Yeah. 00:26:30.030 --> 00:26:33.120 It goes back to that skill that we talked about earlier, that 00:26:33.120 --> 00:26:35.250 insatiable curiosity, right? 00:26:35.250 --> 00:26:39.450 That, yeah, why is this happening and what, and what can I do to d to, you 00:26:39.450 --> 00:26:43.350 know, when we just start accepting status quo, that's when, that's when 00:26:43.350 --> 00:26:44.720 things get really, really goofy. 00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:45.490 So 00:26:46.420 --> 00:26:48.440 Florian Garnier: I think you know, the, the, the. 00:26:49.575 --> 00:26:52.485 There are three components that I would always think about whenever 00:26:52.605 --> 00:26:54.405 building a workforce management team. 00:26:54.405 --> 00:26:55.905 And we've talked about one quite a bit. 00:26:55.905 --> 00:26:59.210 It's the people, the people you hire and the people you work with. 00:26:59.210 --> 00:27:03.504 That's definitely one of the, the components, but the other two. 00:27:04.625 --> 00:27:09.605 Our processes and the technology, so processes that you put in place and 00:27:09.605 --> 00:27:13.085 you know, Joe, what you were talking about, reviewing metrics on a daily 00:27:13.085 --> 00:27:14.855 or on a weekly and monthly basis. 00:27:15.045 --> 00:27:18.095 NBRs, qbr, all the various reviews you could do. 00:27:18.825 --> 00:27:23.550 The processes the, the, the goals that are, Put in place, right? 00:27:23.550 --> 00:27:27.959 For adherence numbers or for your SLAs, reviewing your SLAs from time to 00:27:27.959 --> 00:27:32.820 time, is it still good to have a very aggressive service level of 80 20? 00:27:32.820 --> 00:27:36.330 What, you know, is usually considered as the, as the norm out there, but 00:27:36.330 --> 00:27:38.689 truly doesn't impact quality much. 00:27:39.149 --> 00:27:42.889 And then technology, of course, you know, we are a technology company 00:27:42.889 --> 00:27:45.300 and doing workforce management. 00:27:45.715 --> 00:27:49.764 Work without a workforce management platform is incredibly tricky. 00:27:50.065 --> 00:27:52.105 Doing it all via Excel is challenging. 00:27:52.105 --> 00:27:56.125 So of course the technology, but also the integration of your w fm 00:27:56.125 --> 00:28:01.455 platform with the a c d with a chat platform or your CRM of choice. 00:28:02.035 --> 00:28:04.615 Those three components I, I would always think are key to a 00:28:04.615 --> 00:28:07.465 successful workforce management team, people, process, and technology. 00:28:07.905 --> 00:28:08.385 Joe Prescutti: For sure. 00:28:08.385 --> 00:28:12.465 And you know, I think that when, and I talk to Kevin about this very, very often, 00:28:12.525 --> 00:28:17.925 you know, as you are running this and you are staying up on, you know, changes 00:28:17.925 --> 00:28:21.885 and making sure that you're up on the latest things that are going on, you also 00:28:21.885 --> 00:28:26.265 wanna make sure that you are catering those processes toward the, the software 00:28:26.265 --> 00:28:28.185 that you're using and not trying to. 00:28:28.594 --> 00:28:32.554 Change the software to meet the, the processes that you have in your sender. 00:28:32.854 --> 00:28:35.435 I, I work with so many customers who just say, I, you know, we've 00:28:35.435 --> 00:28:36.875 done this for the last 10 years. 00:28:36.879 --> 00:28:37.985 This is how, this is how we do it. 00:28:38.675 --> 00:28:43.625 And when you get a tool like Collabreo, you, you want to see what the 00:28:43.625 --> 00:28:48.274 tool can do and then maybe look at changing processes to that continuous 00:28:48.274 --> 00:28:51.725 education, continuous improvement piece of the, of the wheel there. 00:28:52.935 --> 00:28:53.445 Yeah, you can 00:28:53.445 --> 00:28:53.655 hear 00:28:53.655 --> 00:28:57.885 Dave Hoekstra: the pain in Joe's voice when he says that because that's, that's 00:28:57.885 --> 00:29:01.915 what it's like to try and implement a solution with, with with people. 00:29:01.935 --> 00:29:04.095 And you know what, we're all guilty of it. 00:29:04.545 --> 00:29:09.105 You, you like something the way it is and you know that it's really a mindset more 00:29:09.105 --> 00:29:14.031 than it is necessarily anything else is going in and feeling feeling confident 00:29:14.055 --> 00:29:16.215 that we can get those pieces done. 00:29:18.165 --> 00:29:18.774 Just to 00:29:18.774 --> 00:29:21.465 Kevin Wilk: add to that, I feel like the collaboration with other 00:29:21.465 --> 00:29:25.035 departments also comes into play on that a lot, especially if you're 00:29:25.035 --> 00:29:27.615 talking about an HR m s integration. 00:29:27.615 --> 00:29:31.695 And a lot of times when you're talking about your initial project 00:29:31.695 --> 00:29:35.265 deployment, it's a lot easier to get the energy and motivation to. 00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:40.180 You know, discuss and fix your processes for the new technology, then roll out 00:29:40.180 --> 00:29:45.370 the technology and then have to look at revisiting your processes down 00:29:45.370 --> 00:29:45.690 Dave Hoekstra: the road. 00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:46.570 Yeah. 00:29:47.030 --> 00:29:50.080 When big changes happen, that's also time to make big decisions. 00:29:50.110 --> 00:29:50.440 Right. 00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.260 And, you know, reevaluate your skills, reevaluate your, 00:29:53.260 --> 00:29:54.221 your, your, things like that. 00:29:54.460 --> 00:29:56.020 And so, absolutely. 00:29:56.230 --> 00:30:00.910 All right, guys, the last point I kind of want to talk about is when 00:30:00.910 --> 00:30:07.754 we look at workforce management and career progression, right? 00:30:07.754 --> 00:30:11.475 So I'd love to think that there's a bunch of W f M people out here listening to 00:30:11.475 --> 00:30:13.354 the podcast and, and wanna learn more. 00:30:14.975 --> 00:30:18.595 If you guys, and I'm gonna kind of round robin this, so you 00:30:18.595 --> 00:30:19.784 know, Joe, we'll start with you. 00:30:20.534 --> 00:30:24.615 If you were to give someone some advice on how to get promoted within the W 00:30:24.615 --> 00:30:28.800 F M ranks, You know, in 30 seconds or less, what would your answer be? 00:30:29.340 --> 00:30:29.580 I would 00:30:29.580 --> 00:30:32.399 Joe Prescutti: say understand the contact center, understand the 00:30:32.399 --> 00:30:34.470 metrics, the KPIs, the people. 00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:39.570 Use, use your, your, your coworkers to understand the tool. 00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:42.720 So if I, if I want to, if I'm a real-time analyst and I wanna be a forecaster, 00:30:43.410 --> 00:30:48.330 I need to work with the forecasters on my W f M team to understand what, how 00:30:48.335 --> 00:30:50.580 those things work and why it's important. 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.890 So whenever I get in that position, I know what I'm doing and I understand 00:30:54.120 --> 00:30:57.870 what the numbers mean and how they impact the overall contact center. 00:30:58.860 --> 00:30:59.220 Right. 00:30:59.550 --> 00:31:02.190 Dave Hoekstra: And so Kevin, same question. 00:31:03.320 --> 00:31:07.440 Kevin Wilk: I've always been fond of the saying, don't come to me with problems. 00:31:07.445 --> 00:31:08.760 Come to me with solutions. 00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:12.720 So, find a problem within your organization that's within your scope 00:31:12.780 --> 00:31:16.350 and that you're able to you know, address or come up with some solution 00:31:16.355 --> 00:31:18.001 for it and throw yourself out there. 00:31:18.150 --> 00:31:21.510 You know, it may not be the perfect solution, but you know, 00:31:21.510 --> 00:31:23.190 find a problem, try to fix it. 00:31:23.785 --> 00:31:25.975 Dave Hoekstra: Have, have that person go, ah, this actually, this 00:31:25.975 --> 00:31:27.325 person might have something here. 00:31:27.355 --> 00:31:27.805 Okay. 00:31:27.925 --> 00:31:28.315 All right. 00:31:28.315 --> 00:31:30.175 So Florian, you got the final word here. 00:31:30.255 --> 00:31:35.065 Let's if you, if you were giving someone, someone some advice on how to get promoted 00:31:35.065 --> 00:31:36.505 within the ranks, what would you say? 00:31:37.195 --> 00:31:40.795 Florian Garnier: If I was to go back to my younger self wanting to become 00:31:40.795 --> 00:31:46.510 a W F M manager I would say, WFM managers are people leader first. 00:31:46.820 --> 00:31:52.080 So work on your communication skills on ensuring that you know what it feels like. 00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:57.320 Put yourself in the shoes of a W F M admin or an agent when you are making decisions. 00:31:57.690 --> 00:32:02.540 But overall, be a, a coach a mentor that has a vision for where you want 00:32:02.790 --> 00:32:06.270 to take your WFM team, how you want to scale it, the processes you want to 00:32:06.270 --> 00:32:09.980 put in place, the technology you want to put into your, in your WFM team. 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:14.180 And and yeah, focus on those three things and you'll, you'll go far. 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:18.380 Dave Hoekstra: Wow, three, three really great pieces of advice there from from 00:32:18.380 --> 00:32:21.570 some people who've been, been through this and, and have really done it. 00:32:21.570 --> 00:32:25.700 So first of all, I wanna say thank you guys so much for joining me. 00:32:25.705 --> 00:32:26.720 I appreciate it. 00:32:26.790 --> 00:32:30.560 And hopefully our listeners are gonna get a ton of great information 00:32:30.560 --> 00:32:31.900 out of this particular piece. 00:32:32.280 --> 00:32:36.645 I always like to say thank you to our listeners for spending some time 00:32:36.645 --> 00:32:39.825 with us, and hopefully you found this informative and we're always looking 00:32:39.825 --> 00:32:43.995 for another great idea for what we, what people want to hear on the podcast. 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.095 So if you have an idea, get in touch with us. 00:32:46.095 --> 00:32:48.375 Just go to collaborator.com, literally find any email 00:32:48.375 --> 00:32:50.045 address and, and shoot it to us. 00:32:50.385 --> 00:32:52.205 It'll, it'll find its way where it needs to go. 00:32:52.504 --> 00:32:54.044 So we really do app. 00:32:54.185 --> 00:32:55.205 Appreciate the time. 00:32:55.445 --> 00:32:57.605 Kevin, Florian, Joe, thank you guys so much. 00:32:57.605 --> 00:33:01.365 It's a pleasure working with you guys day in and day out and I think that 00:33:01.385 --> 00:33:04.355 our customers are really gonna benefit quite a bit from the conversation. 00:33:04.355 --> 00:33:08.105 So appreciate you from the Collabreo team. 00:33:08.105 --> 00:33:11.524 Thank you guys so much for spending some time with us and we will see 00:33:11.524 --> 00:33:14.975 you guys on the next episode of working Smarter with Calabria. 00:33:15.095 --> 00:33:15.695 Thanks everybody.