Morgan Franklin: If you've listened to this podcast before,
you might know that my first corporate job was in the
magical, glamorous and awe inspiring world of search engine
optimization. That's right, SEO. I was worried about rankings
before. Worrying about rankings was cool. And let me tell you,
in 2013 it was so much easier than it is today. But not to
worry my friend, I have spent the past decade clawing my way
up the charts on Google, across social media, Apple, podcasts
and Spotify, and I am here to tell the tale. In this episode,
we'll be talking about what rankings are, how they impact
your podcast growth, how to strategize for your own show,
and, of course, how to actually start showing up on the charts
and ranking to find the audience you want to listen to your
podcast. Hello and welcome to podcast for profit. My name is
Morgan Franklin. I'm a Podcast Producer, strategist and
educator. This podcast will help you create and grow a podcast
that cuts through the noise of social media and speaks directly
to your target audience. If you're ready to create a podcast
that will align you with the experts in your industry,
position yourself as a trusted leader and create another source
of revenue for your business, you're in the right place. So
what is a podcast chart? Let's start there, and this might be
old news to you, but let's buckle in for everybody else.
Apple podcast creator says our podcast charts reflect the most
popular shows and episodes available in a given market, and
are designed to help people discover what to listen to next.
Okay, great. We love a vague explanation. Basically, the
chart is exactly as you'd think of any other chart. So let's say
Billboard top 100 we're all pretty familiar with that. Those
are the top 100 songs played or streamed in any given period of
time. So a podcast chart is exactly like that, but as you're
gonna see throughout this episode, not as straightforward
when we're talking about podcast rankings, that can mean so many
different things, and I think that's part of what makes it so
confusing for podcasters, because when I say ranking, that
can mean ranking in a category, it can mean ranking all shows
ever. It can mean ranking for a specific platform, like, let's
say Apple podcasts or Spotify. It can mean ranking globally
using all different points of data from all different hosts
and platforms. It can mean so many different things. So when
you're trying to figure out what your own podcast rankings are,
or the goals that you want to achieve around your rankings,
it's important for you to know what podcast ranking that you're
actually looking at, and so for this reason, I'm going to be
specifically pointing out each part of this episode, what we're
talking about and how it actually works. Let's start with
Apple podcasts and Spotify charts and how to rank on these
platforms. The first thing is going all the way back, way, way
back when you set up your RSS feed and started this podcast
that you have, what did you put as the categories for your
podcast? And does that actually reflect what your podcast is
about? This always has to be step one, and it's very
important, no matter what, you need to do some serious
reflection on your podcast and what kind of content that you
are making, and did you pick the best categories that will speak
to the content you're putting out on your podcast? Here are
two of the biggest problems. First, you're like me, and your
podcast doesn't really have a category. So for example, this
podcast that you're listening to right now about podcasting? Yes,
we know that, but that's not a category. There is no category
about podcasting or content creation or anything like that.
So I had to put it under marketing and business. And even
though it does encompass those things, right? It's really just
the best that I can do, and that most of us are going to have to
figure that out along the way. What is the second best option
that I have for my category, since my category doesn't exist?
The second problem is, you're thinking, Morgan, my podcast is
about everything. How could I possibly pick a category. So for
me, this is one of the biggest problems across the board that
podcasters face. If you can't even narrow down what your
podcast is, how can you put it into a general category? How
will you ever be able to find your target audience with that
strategy? So if you're thinking either of these two things, I
have one on one coaching where you can work with me that can
help you figure this out. This is exactly the kind of thing
that I work with podcasters on every day, my information will
be in the episode description. Okay, so after you pick the most
relevant category to your podcast and the content that
you're putting out with your podcast, this is when the real
work is going. To happen because rankings are determined by a few
different things, one of the most prominent being listener
engagement. Now what's listener engagement? It's someone that is
coming to your podcast, maybe for the first time, listening to
80% of an episode, subscribing, leaving a review. When people
are consistently interacting with your podcast, it is telling
the algorithm. This is a good podcast, this is a relevant
podcast. That's how they're determining the ranking of the
category that you picked. Now Apple podcasts and Spotify are
never going to tell you what the secret sauce is and how you can
rank number one. That's how they get people to buy ads and spend
money and keep working on their podcast forever, but I will tell
you the two biggest factors playing into these rankings are
new subscribers or followers, however you want to define that,
and five star rankings. And I know that there's a lot more
that goes into it than that, but that will make a huge impact on
where you're ranking currently and where you show up on the
chart. But that's not all. I mean, don't you wish that it was
that easy, that you could just keep getting an influx of new
followers, and you would always be ranking and I mean, that is
part of it, but here's where SEO manager Morgan is coming in to
talk about keywords. So what are keywords? Keywords are words and
phrases that your future listener will type into a
platform search to find your show or episode. So stay with
me. So let's say, for example, this podcast that you're
listening to right now, podcast for profit. Someone might be
searching for how to start a podcast, or generally something
about podcasting, or how do I rank on Apple podcasts, and if
my episode shows up first and they click on it and listen to
it and then maybe hopefully subscribe and rank it five
stars, that is perfect. That's amazing. That's what the ranking
algorithm wants to see. So how do we make sure that this
happens for you, and that when your future listener is
searching for the words that you were trying to rank for the you
are showing up. Personally, I think that you should focus on
these three things. First, the episode title. If the episode
title isn't hooking people in, you are never gonna get past
that. You need relevant keyword, rich, interesting titles. That
last part, interesting titles, don't just ask chat GPT to do
this. I hear so many podcasting gurus telling their clients to
just, oh, just chat GPT. Tell it to SEO Optima, no, do not do
that. I always tell my clients, if there is one thing we are not
going to do it is use chat GPT for our titles. And why is that?
It's because you are telling your future listener that you
can't even be bothered to write a five to 10 word title without
AI. And how are you expecting them to trust you with their
most valuable resource of all, their time, their time to listen
to this podcast. So take a little bit of effort and think
about what interesting titles would actually bring someone in
to listen to your podcast, and what they would actually be
searching for. Put effort into your titles. Work backwards from
your titles, if you have to. So basically, if you need to write
all your titles and then record the episodes after that. That is
totally okay. That's what I do every month. So I'll work
through what my four episodes of the month are gonna be based on
what people are asking me, what's trending, what keywords
are ranking, and then from there, I record the episode
based on the research of the titles. Good content takes time
and effort, I think, in the era of short form media, that that
can be lost on a lot of creators, but it really does
matter, and your audience can tell the difference. The next
thing is just focusing on your general search engine
optimization that is going to be making sure that your episode
descriptions and transcriptions are aligned with this episode,
and again, what that person that you want to listen to your
podcast might be searching for. I see so many podcasters just
leaving everything on the table by not doing their episode
description correctly, and I personally think that this is
where you can use AI and chat GPT and any AI assistant like
that. I mean, think about how many people are really going to
read an episode description, other than just to find a link
or something like that. Not very many. I'd be doing everything
possible to get those keywords in there and make sure that when
someone is searching for something, either my podcast is
ranking first and popping up, or it is that specific episode that
is ranking first. So why do podcast rankings really matter?
I should have probably started the episode with this, but I
think it's important to talk about why we're doing all of
this in the first place, and why it matters if your podcast is
ranking on the charts the. First of all, it makes it much more
likely that new listeners will find you. So anyone that's
looking for a new podcast to listen to at any given genre,
this gives them the opportunity to find you, if they're just
scrolling through the charts again, like we talked about a
minute ago, when someone is searching for something specific
you want to be that podcast episode or podcast that pops up
and is being the most compelling to the listener. New listeners
for podcasts usually come to us one of two ways, and that's
either a personal recommendation or from searching natively. So
that means in Spotify or Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen
to podcasts, looking for something to listen to, looking
for something specific. So if you are ignoring the rankings
and thinking, Oh, that's just vanity, that's just a vanity
accomplishment, you're not putting into perspective how
much showing up on these platforms actually matters to
finding new listeners. I mean, that's half of the listeners
that you would be getting. There is one vanity ranking that I
want you to know for your own information and being able to
keep track of the progress that your podcast is having. So
that's your global rank for all podcasts. You can find this on
Listen notes.com I'll have that in the episode description.
You'll go to that website and just search for your podcast. It
should give you a listener score out of 100 and your global
ranking. So that'll be a percentage if you don't yet have
a ranking, is because you are not yet in the top 10% of
podcasts globally. So I'd start by making that my first goal. If
you don't see your global ranking or what your listener
score is, start there. Start by saying, Okay, I want to be in
the top 10% of podcasts, so I can keep track of this, and so I
can work towards getting in the top 1% or the top point 5%
whatever that might look like for your goals in your podcast.
But make sure that you are keeping track of that, so you
can see how many people are listening to your podcast in
comparison to everyone else. Like I said earlier, I'll leave
the websites where you can look at your different rankings in
the episode description. The second website that I want you
to look at is called refonic. That is where you can look at
your rankings for Apple podcasts and Spotify for the categories.
So that is where you will just go to the website you will type
in your podcast, and it will tell you all about where you are
ranking in these different categories and across the globe.
So you might, for example, be ranking in China, but not in
America. So go ahead and go and check that out. And there are
several different podcast platforms like, I'm thinking of
good pods specifically, where they have their own ranking
system, and you can just go on there, make a profile and see
where you are ranking. I'd encourage you to do that and
make some kind of note where you are tracking this information,
especially if you ever plan to monetize your podcast, which I
hope that you are planning to do, that you can have that
information and say, Okay, I rank in the top 200 for business
podcast on Apple podcast in the United States, I'm ranking in
the top for the word podcasting. So let's talk about that really
fast. You need to go into an incognito browser and search
these different terms that are associated with your podcast and
see if your podcast is ranking for any of those words. And if
they are, I probably do this once a month and just see where
you are. I've not found a website that will give you these
rankings or this information, so you'll need to do it for
yourself. But have at least three keywords at any given time
that you are trying to rank for. Make sure that you're checking
to see where are you, and then write that down and keep going
until you are the number one person ranking for that word or
phrase. If you've just launched a podcast, or you're about to
launch a new podcast, make sure that you keep an eye on your
rankings, because you're gonna have a big boost that first few
days or weeks because you just launched this podcast, you're
getting all these new subscribers and ratings. So make
sure to keep an eye on that and start making your notes from
there. I remember when Kylie Kelsey launched her podcast, and
everyone was in a total frenzy because she was ranking above
Joe Rogan. And the whole time I was just thinking, well, this,
this isn't really, I mean, this is not a good representation of
how she will be ranking. And then I think it was like, less
than two weeks later, she wasn't even the top 50 podcast at all.
It's because that huge influx of followers and listeners and
ratings and listener engagement that then subsided and
everything kind of leveled out, and then she was no longer that
number one position. So make sure that you're keeping an eye
and keeping perspective on what is happening with your podcast.
Oh, and by the way, I meant to mention this up front, but do
not pay for websites like listen note or refonic. Don't waste
your money on stuff like this. Podcasting is expensive enough.
Just check in and make sure that you have a Google spreadsheet or
something like that, where you are writing down the date you're
writing down what your rankings are. And remember, this changes
every day. It's very. Volatile. One day you are going to be
ranking 10th in your category, and the next day you're not
going to be ranking at all. So take it one day at a time, keep
measuring where you are and make your goals from there. Remember,
knowledge is power. If you need help creating a strategy for how
your podcast will rank on the charts, I would love to help you
out the information for my one on one coaching is in the
episode description. If you have a question, please feel free to
send me a message. My email is Morgan at Morgan Franklin dot
media that will also be in the episode description. I'd love to
help you. If I can, please subscribe to this podcast if you
haven't already, and as always, I can't wait to listen to your
podcast. Hey, thank you so much for joining me on this episode.
If you enjoyed the podcast and you'd like to hear more episodes
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podcast.