WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.874 --> 00:00:08.784 Lindsay: Welcome to the Lifting Lindsay podcast today. 00:00:08.784 --> 00:00:11.034 I'm really excited to have Dr. 00:00:11.034 --> 00:00:12.414 Allen on here with me. 00:00:12.414 --> 00:00:16.314 Um, I don't even know how I discovered you on Instagram, to be honest. 00:00:16.319 --> 00:00:19.464 I don't follow a ton of accounts. 00:00:19.734 --> 00:00:24.594 I'm very picky about who I follow, but I, I loved your stuff. 00:00:24.594 --> 00:00:30.504 So for those of you who don't follow him, um, he posts a lot of Dr. 00:00:30.504 --> 00:00:32.544 Allen versus like influencers. 00:00:32.544 --> 00:00:33.354 Is that what you say? 00:00:33.699 --> 00:00:35.169 Dr. Allan: Yeah, Alan versus influencers. 00:00:35.169 --> 00:00:37.959 And one of the reasons that we, that we chose that, that moniker 00:00:37.959 --> 00:00:42.309 is because I tend to work a lot of times with Alan Aragon and so as 00:00:42.339 --> 00:00:44.229 collabs for these types of things. 00:00:44.289 --> 00:00:47.709 And uh, and so it was kind of like Alan's versus influencers in a way. 00:00:48.654 --> 00:00:49.584 Lindsay: Oh, I love it. 00:00:49.614 --> 00:00:53.514 Do you know what That's, that's it, that's how I found you. 00:00:53.544 --> 00:00:56.424 'cause I follow him and you guys must have been linked and 00:00:56.424 --> 00:00:57.744 I was like, oh, I like this guy. 00:00:57.924 --> 00:00:58.134 And I 00:00:58.269 --> 00:00:59.199 Dr. Allan: Well, yeah. 00:00:59.199 --> 00:01:02.109 I mean, and it, it was, it's a fun collaboration because, I mean, 00:01:02.199 --> 00:01:06.399 you know, that there's a lot of misinformation out there, and with 00:01:06.399 --> 00:01:08.739 the way the social media works, it's only gonna get worse and worse. 00:01:08.739 --> 00:01:13.419 And so it was a fun way to be able to debunk some of these things and 00:01:13.419 --> 00:01:18.309 essentially use the same tactics that these guys use to misinform people, but 00:01:18.314 --> 00:01:20.019 to switch it around and inform people. 00:01:20.829 --> 00:01:21.119 Lindsay: Okay. 00:01:21.294 --> 00:01:21.624 Okay. 00:01:21.624 --> 00:01:22.644 Hold that thought. 00:01:23.364 --> 00:01:25.044 Tell us a little bit about yourself. 00:01:25.104 --> 00:01:27.684 Who, for those of you, you're, you're jumping the gun here. 00:01:27.954 --> 00:01:33.114 For those of you who don't, for those of my, um, listeners who this is 00:01:33.114 --> 00:01:34.794 their first time hearing from you. 00:01:34.794 --> 00:01:38.064 Give that two minute amazing sales pitch. 00:01:38.124 --> 00:01:39.084 Sell yourself. 00:01:39.264 --> 00:01:42.024 Dr. Allan: So this is, this is why we're so bad at giving good information 00:01:42.024 --> 00:01:43.344 because we don't sell ourselves 00:01:43.344 --> 00:01:43.914 correctly. 00:01:44.334 --> 00:01:45.984 So my name is, my name is Dr. 00:01:45.984 --> 00:01:46.674 Alan Bacon. 00:01:46.674 --> 00:01:50.024 I am a, physique and, certified nutrition coach. 00:01:50.604 --> 00:01:53.634 I had originally had a career in, in dental surgery, believe 00:01:53.634 --> 00:01:54.594 it or not, and then made the 00:01:54.789 --> 00:01:55.289 Lindsay: No way. 00:01:55.494 --> 00:01:55.944 Dr. Allan: Yeah. 00:01:56.124 --> 00:01:56.544 Yeah. 00:01:56.789 --> 00:01:58.109 Lindsay: I was wondering how you got the doctor. 00:01:58.709 --> 00:01:59.129 Dr. Allan: mm-Hmm. 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:00.009 Yeah. 00:02:00.149 --> 00:02:03.444 And, and so it's funny because one of the things that we're gonna be 00:02:03.444 --> 00:02:08.154 talking about is credentialing and, you know, how does that make you a, a, 00:02:08.304 --> 00:02:10.314 specialist or an authority in an area. 00:02:10.314 --> 00:02:15.984 And it's funny, um, this was a transfer in, in life for quality 00:02:15.984 --> 00:02:20.814 of life improvements and, you know, physique, fitness, health, these things 00:02:20.814 --> 00:02:22.704 had always been passions of mine. 00:02:23.574 --> 00:02:26.934 And I was finding that when treating patients, I mean, it was a difficult 00:02:26.934 --> 00:02:30.744 thing because I was working, every day of the year except I got nine days off. 00:02:30.744 --> 00:02:32.784 And that included any sick days. 00:02:32.834 --> 00:02:36.524 My dad had gotten cancer one time and, and he was a, a doctor. 00:02:36.524 --> 00:02:39.254 And I turned to him and I said, Hey, if there was anything that you could 00:02:39.254 --> 00:02:40.754 redo, what would, what would you do? 00:02:40.754 --> 00:02:43.514 And he said, I, I would love to have spent more time with my family. 00:02:43.514 --> 00:02:46.284 I would've loved to have spent, more time actually enjoying life. 00:02:47.244 --> 00:02:52.164 And that same year, it was December 24th, 8:30 PM and I was 00:02:52.164 --> 00:02:54.074 in doing, emergency surgery. 00:02:54.419 --> 00:02:58.409 When, um, my family, my in-laws were having dinner and I was thinking, you 00:02:58.409 --> 00:03:02.279 know, this is just, you know, Christmas Eve doing this, you know, going in. 00:03:02.309 --> 00:03:03.959 This is something that needs to change. 00:03:04.779 --> 00:03:09.729 I turned to my wife and she was a regional's qualifying CrossFit competitor. 00:03:09.734 --> 00:03:12.219 She is an American record holding Olympic weightlifter. 00:03:12.909 --> 00:03:14.709 I was like, you know, we're both really into fitness. 00:03:14.709 --> 00:03:18.279 How about setting up a, a coaching company and doing this on the side? 00:03:18.279 --> 00:03:19.359 And she was like, yeah, let's do it. 00:03:20.289 --> 00:03:24.609 And we were a great combination because I do power lifting and bodybuilding 00:03:24.609 --> 00:03:27.579 and health, and she does the CrossFit and Olympic weightlifting sides. 00:03:28.089 --> 00:03:31.749 And, um, so we complimented each other really well and the, uh, the business 00:03:31.749 --> 00:03:35.409 took off and then, um, you know, switched over to it full time and, 00:03:35.409 --> 00:03:36.909 and have been doing it ever since. 00:03:36.909 --> 00:03:42.459 But, um, it's kind of a circuitous route to the, the health and fitness side, 00:03:42.464 --> 00:03:48.084 but I think that it's, it's ultimately beneficial because, um, having that 00:03:48.084 --> 00:03:52.224 background from, you know, med school anatomy and physiology, um, you know, 00:03:52.224 --> 00:03:55.394 microbiology, all that kind of stuff should allow a person to have a little 00:03:55.394 --> 00:03:59.744 bit more insight into how the body works, be able to help people a little 00:03:59.744 --> 00:04:02.894 bit better, and hopefully I can put that to use to being able to, uh, to 00:04:02.894 --> 00:04:04.124 make a difference in people's lives. 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:04.769 Lindsay: Yeah. 00:04:05.174 --> 00:04:06.014 That's amazing. 00:04:06.014 --> 00:04:11.804 I saw like a glimpse of your wife in, uh, one of your posts, or it might 00:04:11.804 --> 00:04:16.274 have been a story or something, and I was like, okay, she clearly lifts. 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:17.324 Who is this woman? 00:04:17.444 --> 00:04:18.359 Dr. Allan: She knows what she's doing. 00:04:18.569 --> 00:04:21.479 There are a lot of very intelligent people in, in health and fitness. 00:04:21.929 --> 00:04:26.519 I think that for the general population, seeing someone live what they preach 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:27.719 can be a really beneficial thing. 00:04:27.719 --> 00:04:29.939 And I'm sure that you see this too, because you are in really good 00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:34.319 shape and that doesn't, being, being outta shape shouldn't discredit a 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:35.729 person from having good information. 00:04:35.729 --> 00:04:38.969 But the reality is for gen pop, that is a big thing. 00:04:39.729 --> 00:04:42.159 And so we, we kind of benefit from, from that. 00:04:42.159 --> 00:04:45.279 Plus, because we live in Hawaii, we have to stay in shape since it's 00:04:45.459 --> 00:04:46.869 bathing suit season all year round, 00:04:47.049 --> 00:04:47.799 Lindsay: You have to. 00:04:48.459 --> 00:04:53.079 I mean, here I am, here I am in Utah, dead of winter. 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:54.849 There's like, uh, what? 00:04:54.849 --> 00:04:59.529 Like a foot of snow out my window so I can cover really well. 00:04:59.529 --> 00:05:00.939 This is building season. 00:05:01.869 --> 00:05:03.669 Dr. Allan: So we don't, we don't technically have that. 00:05:03.674 --> 00:05:07.059 We have, you build and, and you just, you know, you, you 00:05:07.059 --> 00:05:08.829 fight the urge to, to cut down 00:05:09.129 --> 00:05:09.729 Lindsay: Take cut. 00:05:09.729 --> 00:05:10.299 Yes. 00:05:10.629 --> 00:05:13.899 Dr. Allan: Well, so we came originally from the East coast and, uh, I grew up 00:05:13.899 --> 00:05:15.489 in Maryland and she grew up in Boston. 00:05:16.259 --> 00:05:19.139 We're actually ashamed to say that at this point when it becomes 00:05:19.139 --> 00:05:20.969 like 67 degrees, we're cold. 00:05:21.419 --> 00:05:21.959 Lindsay: Oh yeah, 00:05:22.169 --> 00:05:24.089 Dr. Allan: We've, we've adjusted that badly. 00:05:25.019 --> 00:05:25.379 Lindsay: Do you know what? 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:28.709 It's okay because I live in Utah and I still feel the same way. 00:05:28.714 --> 00:05:32.249 I'm like, okay, like we don't go outside now. 00:05:32.549 --> 00:05:34.064 Like we just, 00:05:34.109 --> 00:05:36.839 Dr. Allan: I mean, I, I remember when we were living back there, we would 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:40.349 go up to Boston to visitor family and I would be in shorts in 27 degree 00:05:40.349 --> 00:05:43.199 weather, and now there's no way. 00:05:43.409 --> 00:05:43.799 Lindsay: Yeah. 00:05:44.309 --> 00:05:44.699 Yeah. 00:05:45.209 --> 00:05:46.049 It's crazy. 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:47.339 Well, that's awesome. 00:05:47.339 --> 00:05:47.579 Okay. 00:05:47.579 --> 00:05:50.159 I love hearing a little bit of your background and also that 00:05:50.159 --> 00:05:52.349 you do this with your wife. 00:05:52.739 --> 00:05:55.349 Let's go back to what you were saying at the very beginning. 00:05:55.689 --> 00:05:57.939 I had somebody explain this to me. 00:05:58.209 --> 00:05:58.719 Well, I. 00:05:59.004 --> 00:06:00.414 We were having this conversation. 00:06:00.414 --> 00:06:02.904 I loved how they put this. 00:06:02.904 --> 00:06:08.124 They said, we live in a world where there's tons of food, mass 00:06:08.124 --> 00:06:13.644 amounts of food, and yet very little nutrition, and it just like hit me. 00:06:13.674 --> 00:06:14.214 Oh my gosh. 00:06:14.219 --> 00:06:18.114 We live in a world where there's mass amounts of information 00:06:18.114 --> 00:06:19.644 and very little wisdom. 00:06:20.814 --> 00:06:22.974 Dr. Allan: Yeah, I, I think that, I think that that's a little, 00:06:22.979 --> 00:06:25.614 I think the way that you put it second is, is a good way to put it. 00:06:25.674 --> 00:06:29.034 And, and I don't, I don't believe that there's a lack of nutrition. 00:06:29.034 --> 00:06:31.194 I believe that there's a lack of nutrition knowledge. 00:06:31.404 --> 00:06:31.674 Lindsay: Okay. 00:06:32.334 --> 00:06:35.604 Dr. Allan: Um, and I say that because, I mean, even if you look at food 00:06:36.264 --> 00:06:40.854 information between like the fifties and now, food is not less nutritious. 00:06:40.854 --> 00:06:46.074 Now we're just making the wrong choices in a lot of situations. 00:06:46.524 --> 00:06:49.224 Um, you know, you can still get whole minimally processed 00:06:49.224 --> 00:06:50.334 foods at the grocery store. 00:06:50.334 --> 00:06:54.234 The question is, are you or are you, or are we reaching for 00:06:54.234 --> 00:06:56.034 all of the prepackaged food? 00:06:56.074 --> 00:07:00.334 It's not that the availability isn't there in most cases, it's that, 00:07:00.604 --> 00:07:02.704 um, we've kind of gotten away from, 00:07:03.034 --> 00:07:06.904 valuing whole minimally processed foods the large majority of the time. 00:07:07.334 --> 00:07:13.814 And we're getting to that stage where we have to be very careful about how we as 00:07:13.814 --> 00:07:18.704 health professionals put this out because we don't want to get into a situation in 00:07:18.709 --> 00:07:20.204 which we're pushing dichotomous thinking. 00:07:20.864 --> 00:07:24.014 We don't wanna say this food is 100% good, this food is 100% bad. 00:07:24.014 --> 00:07:26.954 Because the reality is when you look at the research that that goes over 00:07:26.954 --> 00:07:30.614 this stuff, when you push dichotomous thinking of, of good or bad foods, 00:07:31.034 --> 00:07:35.384 it actually makes it much less likely that a person's going to sustain a 00:07:35.414 --> 00:07:39.254 healthy relationship with food and, and longevity with healthy nutrition. 00:07:39.944 --> 00:07:42.734 Um, and so your point is a hundred percent valid. 00:07:43.094 --> 00:07:47.024 You know, pointing out that we probably need to get better at moderating. 00:07:47.084 --> 00:07:52.814 We probably need to get better at valuing, um, lean proteins. 00:07:52.814 --> 00:07:55.784 We probably need to get better at valuing, um. 00:07:56.384 --> 00:08:00.014 Fruits and vegetables, which is very devoid in our diets. 00:08:00.014 --> 00:08:01.364 And it's not an either or. 00:08:01.754 --> 00:08:04.694 It's, it's not either carnivore or, or vegan. 00:08:04.904 --> 00:08:09.404 And unfortunately we're, we're seeing social media and, you know, documentaries 00:08:09.404 --> 00:08:13.034 on Netflix and, and everything like that, pushing it as only one or, 00:08:13.034 --> 00:08:15.439 or, or the other really make sense. 00:08:15.554 --> 00:08:16.754 Look at all the health benefits here. 00:08:16.754 --> 00:08:17.834 Look at all the health benefits here. 00:08:17.834 --> 00:08:20.534 Well, yeah, I mean, you can show health benefits to both of them, 00:08:21.314 --> 00:08:24.584 but when you look at the research as a whole, what comes out in front 00:08:24.584 --> 00:08:26.294 and that's a smart omnivore diet. 00:08:26.299 --> 00:08:31.604 So to your point, yeah, we do need to, push, you know, nutritional 00:08:31.604 --> 00:08:35.384 education and finding that balance to where we're starting to move away 00:08:35.384 --> 00:08:41.294 from some of that highly processed foods to a more whole foods diet and 00:08:41.294 --> 00:08:44.864 realizing that we can incorporate some, some more processed foods in 00:08:44.864 --> 00:08:46.754 our diet for sustainability purposes. 00:08:47.209 --> 00:08:47.429 And 00:08:47.874 --> 00:08:48.684 Lindsay: I love that. 00:08:48.884 --> 00:08:50.264 Dr. Allan: that's the, that's a hard balance. 00:08:50.664 --> 00:08:54.594 Lindsay: It, it is a hard balance, but, but like you said, finding 00:08:54.594 --> 00:09:00.514 that moderation, but also just being able to have the wisdom to kind of 00:09:00.514 --> 00:09:07.404 spot like, how does this work for my current, calorie nutritional needs? 00:09:07.584 --> 00:09:12.744 And I feel like the same thing kind of moves into the mass amounts 00:09:12.774 --> 00:09:21.264 of information that we're seeing on social media, on podcasts. 00:09:21.269 --> 00:09:24.204 I mean, to be honest, anybody can make an Instagram account, 00:09:24.204 --> 00:09:27.294 anybody can make a TikTok account, anybody can make a podcast. 00:09:27.774 --> 00:09:31.194 So we kind of understand that anybody can make that. 00:09:31.574 --> 00:09:33.914 I mean, I'm a perfect example. 00:09:34.064 --> 00:09:36.194 I made a podcast, right? 00:09:36.554 --> 00:09:40.724 I didn't go to school, well, I did actually go to school for communications. 00:09:40.844 --> 00:09:41.954 Um, so I guess 00:09:41.954 --> 00:09:42.524 I'm fulfilling that 00:09:44.009 --> 00:09:45.509 Dr. Allan: You're putting it to, you're putting it to use. 00:09:45.509 --> 00:09:45.689 That's 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:48.704 Lindsay: I'm, but I, but I also went to school for Spanish, and I'm not 00:09:48.884 --> 00:09:50.084 necessarily fulfilling that part. 00:09:50.084 --> 00:09:54.374 But anyways, so it, it's interesting because anybody can make it 00:09:54.379 --> 00:09:55.814 so we kind of understand that. 00:09:56.564 --> 00:09:57.704 Anybody can make it. 00:09:57.704 --> 00:10:02.324 So those people who don't have those credentials, obviously we're just gonna 00:10:02.324 --> 00:10:03.854 kind of take it worth a grain of salt. 00:10:04.844 --> 00:10:13.394 But also we're now seeing that anybody with a master's or doctorate 00:10:13.814 --> 00:10:21.014 kind of heavily uses that as leverage to be able to say anything. 00:10:21.884 --> 00:10:22.724 Anything. 00:10:23.414 --> 00:10:28.334 And I feel like we're just kind of seeing that in the masses. 00:10:29.384 --> 00:10:30.284 What are your thoughts on 00:10:30.509 --> 00:10:32.879 Dr. Allan: We're seeing this play out in a really negative manner. 00:10:32.929 --> 00:10:35.779 The reality is that I'm just as culpable for this as anybody else. 00:10:35.779 --> 00:10:37.969 I mean, you know, I, I even have my name down as Dr. 00:10:37.969 --> 00:10:38.899 Allen right here. 00:10:39.649 --> 00:10:44.509 But the reason that a lot of people do that is because one, it does instill 00:10:44.689 --> 00:10:46.069 some immediate credibility, right? 00:10:46.099 --> 00:10:51.019 Because you theoretically should be able to understand the body a little bit better 00:10:51.019 --> 00:10:54.619 if you've got a background in some kind of medical science and, you should be 00:10:54.619 --> 00:10:56.779 able to read research a little bit better. 00:10:57.019 --> 00:11:03.184 But the, to your question, people, I wonder, okay, well if a person 00:11:03.184 --> 00:11:07.544 has this type of, credential, how do I know if what they're 00:11:07.544 --> 00:11:09.104 saying is actually trustworthy? 00:11:09.104 --> 00:11:13.184 And the reality is for gen pop, it's very, very difficult to to figure that out. 00:11:13.704 --> 00:11:18.267 Because you even have people that, sound like they should be specialists 00:11:18.357 --> 00:11:22.687 in areas and their completely off in, in the message that they're giving. 00:11:22.687 --> 00:11:25.567 And one of the, the, the examples that stands out to me is Dr. 00:11:25.567 --> 00:11:26.857 Ludwig from Harvard. 00:11:26.887 --> 00:11:28.447 He's from Harvard. 00:11:28.627 --> 00:11:32.707 He is a metabolic researcher and he is 100% wrong in all the stuff that he 00:11:32.707 --> 00:11:38.587 pushes because he has tenure at Harvard, and so they can't really get rid of him. 00:11:39.307 --> 00:11:42.907 And he makes a lot of money off of the carbohydrate insulin theory. 00:11:42.967 --> 00:11:47.227 And unfortunately for him, the carbohydrate insulin theory 00:11:47.232 --> 00:11:48.967 has been largely debunked. 00:11:49.027 --> 00:11:54.307 We know that insulin is not the cause of fat gain in a calorie deficit. 00:11:54.307 --> 00:11:55.087 And how do we know that? 00:11:55.092 --> 00:11:57.817 Well, we have mountains of research at this point to point that out. 00:11:58.357 --> 00:12:03.817 Wegovy, you know, these, these, um, GLP one mimetics, these drugs that are out, 00:12:03.817 --> 00:12:08.647 that people are going towards ozempic, they wouldn't even work if his theory 00:12:08.652 --> 00:12:10.537 was correct because they raise insulin. 00:12:11.977 --> 00:12:18.252 Yet the issue that he has is that he will push situations where, okay, well look at 00:12:18.252 --> 00:12:20.562 this research and he'll show you research. 00:12:20.562 --> 00:12:23.802 And in it the insulin is raised and in it the person gains body fat. 00:12:24.552 --> 00:12:28.872 Well, insulin is essentially a, a, a transport hormone. 00:12:29.232 --> 00:12:34.602 And when you're in a calorie surplus, you've got a lot of extra energy. 00:12:34.837 --> 00:12:38.532 So it can transport it into situations where it can be stored as fat. 00:12:39.132 --> 00:12:41.682 In a calorie deficit, it doesn't matter how high it is, when you 00:12:41.682 --> 00:12:44.592 don't have anything to add to fat, you can't add anything. 00:12:45.372 --> 00:12:51.012 And so he manipulates the science to convince people, but he doesn't 00:12:51.012 --> 00:12:54.282 mention, oh, this only, this is only relevant in a calorie surplus. 00:12:54.282 --> 00:12:58.002 So if you try to lose fat, you're gonna be fine regardless of what your insulin does. 00:12:58.272 --> 00:13:01.332 Even the fact that that, you know, protein spikes insulin, I'm 00:13:01.332 --> 00:13:02.472 gonna, I'm not gonna mention that. 00:13:02.892 --> 00:13:05.742 I'm just gonna say, Hey, cut out all your carbs and you'll be fine. 00:13:06.222 --> 00:13:08.862 And we're ignoring all the benefits that those carbs could give. 00:13:09.642 --> 00:13:10.812 How do you tell? 00:13:11.802 --> 00:13:13.752 Well, unfortunately, credentials are not. 00:13:14.127 --> 00:13:18.867 A good way to tell if a person is, uh, is actually correct and 00:13:18.867 --> 00:13:19.947 neither is follower account. 00:13:19.947 --> 00:13:22.402 And that's where the two main things that people look towards 00:13:22.792 --> 00:13:23.842 right now with social media. 00:13:23.842 --> 00:13:24.772 So what do you do? 00:13:25.522 --> 00:13:30.412 Well, you stay as critical of information as you possibly can. 00:13:30.712 --> 00:13:34.252 Assume that anybody that's talking to you, including myself, is wrong. 00:13:34.312 --> 00:13:36.862 Just assume that off the bat, that's a good way to start. 00:13:37.852 --> 00:13:40.342 And then have a discourse with them if you can. 00:13:40.412 --> 00:13:43.382 If you see any of my posts online or if, or, you know, when you see your 00:13:43.387 --> 00:13:46.292 posts, you're more than happy to have back and forth conversations with 00:13:46.292 --> 00:13:47.972 people, which is a wonderful thing. 00:13:48.662 --> 00:13:52.352 So ask them, Hey, you know, you say that the carbohydrate insulin 00:13:52.352 --> 00:13:54.392 theory isn't accurate, but Dr. 00:13:54.392 --> 00:13:55.632 Ludwig says it is. 00:13:56.322 --> 00:13:57.852 And why do you say that? 00:13:57.852 --> 00:14:02.442 And he says this, if the person that you're talking to can explain 00:14:02.442 --> 00:14:07.782 their stance, and also why the claims of the other guy is wrong. 00:14:08.457 --> 00:14:12.447 That's a really good indicator that they actually know the whole story 00:14:12.447 --> 00:14:16.917 rather than just this one part of the story that they're trying to show you. 00:14:17.127 --> 00:14:21.537 It's like the person that knows what they're doing is, is, you know, turning 00:14:21.537 --> 00:14:25.857 the light on the entire room, whereas the person that's trying to convince you 00:14:25.862 --> 00:14:29.007 of something that may not necessarily be true is showing you one spot of the room 00:14:29.007 --> 00:14:32.427 with a spot with a, with a flashlight and not allowing you to see the rest of it. 00:14:33.507 --> 00:14:38.787 And so, you know, I have been asked this question on, on a couple podcasts 00:14:38.787 --> 00:14:42.237 at this point, and it's a really difficult thing to, to answer because 00:14:42.237 --> 00:14:43.917 there's not a very distinct answer. 00:14:43.917 --> 00:14:47.757 But understanding that the person that you're talking to who might be the 00:14:47.757 --> 00:14:52.737 authority knows the entire story, is likely where you should be going, rather 00:14:52.742 --> 00:14:56.517 than trusting the credentials themselves or the follower count themselves. 00:14:56.947 --> 00:14:59.407 You know, for me, I actually had a conversation with somebody yesterday 00:14:59.407 --> 00:15:01.597 and they were like, well, why should I trust you and not this other 00:15:01.597 --> 00:15:03.127 guy who you're debunk, debunking? 00:15:03.817 --> 00:15:04.987 And I said, don't trust me. 00:15:05.107 --> 00:15:07.597 Look at the research that I've presented, see if there's any 00:15:07.602 --> 00:15:08.857 holes in anything that I said. 00:15:09.037 --> 00:15:12.367 See if there's any holes in anything that I've said about what they've presented, 00:15:12.727 --> 00:15:14.167 and then come back with questions. 00:15:14.737 --> 00:15:17.647 That's literally the best that you can possibly do in the way 00:15:17.647 --> 00:15:18.967 the social media is set up. 00:15:19.627 --> 00:15:25.777 And what's really confusing for most people is that the people that tend to 00:15:25.777 --> 00:15:31.747 be gurus, not all but, but in most cases, tend to have larger follower accounts. 00:15:32.597 --> 00:15:35.897 And you have to understand that the reason that that happens is because of 00:15:35.897 --> 00:15:37.967 how these social media algorithms work. 00:15:38.447 --> 00:15:45.652 If a reputable person comes out and they say, nutrition, sleep, exercise, 00:15:45.802 --> 00:15:51.112 stress management, follow these things and you're gonna do 99% of the best 00:15:51.112 --> 00:15:52.342 that you possibly can for health. 00:15:53.197 --> 00:15:54.427 You get six likes. 00:15:55.387 --> 00:16:00.157 If another person comes out and they say, you have to go sun your taint and 00:16:00.157 --> 00:16:05.527 you'll get a 200% dopamine increase, and then you need to ice in a tub for three 00:16:05.527 --> 00:16:09.487 hours a day and you're gonna boost your dopamine and you're gonna boost your heat 00:16:09.492 --> 00:16:12.277 shock proteins and you're gonna boost your, you know, and, and they start going 00:16:12.277 --> 00:16:14.617 out with these just outrageous claims. 00:16:15.847 --> 00:16:19.537 All of the people who are anti-establishment will hit like all 00:16:19.542 --> 00:16:24.097 of the people who believe in sleep, stress, nutrition, and exercise 00:16:24.307 --> 00:16:25.867 will argue in the comments section. 00:16:26.612 --> 00:16:27.842 Lindsay: Which gives it a boost. 00:16:28.117 --> 00:16:28.717 Dr. Allan: Yes. 00:16:28.722 --> 00:16:30.397 Both of those groups will share it. 00:16:30.967 --> 00:16:33.517 The taint sunners will say, Hey look, this is amazing. 00:16:33.522 --> 00:16:35.317 He there, he's agreeing with what we say. 00:16:35.317 --> 00:16:40.237 And look at these, these studies that were done in Singapore on two nematodes 00:16:40.297 --> 00:16:43.957 and see what it did and look at, that's proof that what we do works. 00:16:44.467 --> 00:16:46.987 And then somebody else goes out and they go, this is the most 00:16:46.987 --> 00:16:48.247 ridiculous thing in the world. 00:16:48.247 --> 00:16:49.237 Let's laugh at this. 00:16:49.237 --> 00:16:50.347 But they've shared it too. 00:16:51.052 --> 00:16:54.052 You have double or triple the reach of a person that's telling you, 00:16:54.322 --> 00:16:56.182 Hey, you should sleep eight hours. 00:16:57.322 --> 00:17:01.522 The social media algorithm is not set up to give you good information. 00:17:02.662 --> 00:17:06.232 It's set up to give you the most outrageous type of 00:17:06.237 --> 00:17:07.492 information that you can find. 00:17:07.762 --> 00:17:11.852 So instead of getting the reputable type of information that we're 00:17:11.852 --> 00:17:14.522 getting, we're essentially getting Jerry Springer day in and day out. 00:17:15.092 --> 00:17:21.062 But it, but Jerry Springer is being presented as a, you know, a reputable TED 00:17:21.067 --> 00:17:25.352 talk or, or whatever you want to consider as, as a reputable source of information. 00:17:25.692 --> 00:17:29.112 I think deep down, you know, when it's explained, I think that we know that. 00:17:29.442 --> 00:17:33.822 But I think that we're, when we're in the moment consuming this 00:17:33.882 --> 00:17:36.552 information, we don't know that. 00:17:36.652 --> 00:17:40.087 And I think that it becomes very difficult because I, just like 00:17:40.087 --> 00:17:43.537 if I were to go into a mechanic and say, my car's making a noise. 00:17:43.537 --> 00:17:44.317 You know, what's the problem? 00:17:44.317 --> 00:17:46.597 They could literally tell me anything and I'd just be like, okay. 00:17:47.227 --> 00:17:50.887 I think that that's how general population deals with the body and 00:17:50.887 --> 00:17:55.027 nutrition and exercise and there's so much, there's more bad information 00:17:55.027 --> 00:17:55.987 out there than there's good. 00:17:56.737 --> 00:18:00.367 And so how are you supposed to know what is good? 00:18:00.487 --> 00:18:05.587 And there's not an easy answer, you know, short of, you know, going through 00:18:05.587 --> 00:18:12.107 these science courses, it's ask questions and be overly critical of people, you 00:18:12.107 --> 00:18:15.367 know, grill them with questions and, and allow them to explain that to you. 00:18:15.667 --> 00:18:17.287 It's the best that you can possibly do. 00:18:17.287 --> 00:18:18.667 And I wish there was an easy answer. 00:18:19.777 --> 00:18:24.907 Lindsay: That was such a good, that was such a good response though, because as 00:18:24.907 --> 00:18:28.717 I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, yeah, the people who really know their stuff, 00:18:28.717 --> 00:18:33.337 they're not threatened and it's not about, they're not threatened by questions. 00:18:33.877 --> 00:18:38.137 They invite them from a genuine place, I mean, you can tell when it's just a toxic 00:18:38.137 --> 00:18:40.777 person coming at you versus a genuine, 00:18:41.332 --> 00:18:42.142 Dr. Allan: Have you heard that term? 00:18:42.142 --> 00:18:42.882 Sea lioning? 00:18:43.387 --> 00:18:43.627 Lindsay: no. 00:18:43.627 --> 00:18:44.107 What's that? 00:18:44.572 --> 00:18:47.242 Dr. Allan: Sea lioning is a disingenuous form of discourse. 00:18:47.242 --> 00:18:50.392 I bring this up because this is what I fall into a lot of times with people 00:18:51.162 --> 00:18:55.152 who are emotionally involved in one of the things that are being debunked. 00:18:56.352 --> 00:19:00.252 Sea lioning is a disingenuous form of discourse where you ask questions, 00:19:00.252 --> 00:19:02.472 not because you're actually trying to learn, but because you're 00:19:02.472 --> 00:19:06.702 trying to trick somebody or, or catch them or, or infuriate them. 00:19:07.092 --> 00:19:12.502 Um, and as an example, I had one guy who, we debunked, um, yesterday a, a, 00:19:12.592 --> 00:19:16.802 a thing where somebody claimed that, I think it was something like 60% of 00:19:16.802 --> 00:19:18.452 whey protein is converted to glucose, 00:19:18.477 --> 00:19:20.057 Lindsay: Oh my gosh, I saw 00:19:20.192 --> 00:19:21.692 Dr. Allan: which is absolutely ludicrous. 00:19:21.692 --> 00:19:25.622 I mean, gluconeogenesis is the, the process of converting protein 00:19:25.627 --> 00:19:27.092 to glucose, which can happen. 00:19:27.122 --> 00:19:29.072 It does not happen very readily. 00:19:29.072 --> 00:19:30.872 And if you eat carbs. 00:19:31.217 --> 00:19:33.317 It almost doesn't happen at all. 00:19:33.317 --> 00:19:34.817 And it doesn't happen 'cause your body doesn't need to 00:19:34.817 --> 00:19:36.437 convert glucose from Protein one. 00:19:36.437 --> 00:19:37.667 It's really hard. 00:19:38.237 --> 00:19:38.567 It is. 00:19:38.597 --> 00:19:43.127 It's very easy to convert carbs to glucose because it doesn't take 15 00:19:43.127 --> 00:19:45.167 different steps in the interim to do that. 00:19:45.917 --> 00:19:49.757 Whereas with, with protein, it takes a lot of extra steps and your body's 00:19:49.762 --> 00:19:50.957 gonna be as efficient as possible. 00:19:50.957 --> 00:19:51.317 Your body's 00:19:51.472 --> 00:19:51.892 Lindsay: Mm-Hmm. 00:19:52.337 --> 00:19:54.557 Dr. Allan: Your body's going to be as efficient as possible. 00:19:55.277 --> 00:20:00.197 And so this, this guy was, was arguing with me and he was trying 00:20:00.202 --> 00:20:02.987 to say, well, why are you, why are you promoting whey protein? 00:20:02.992 --> 00:20:04.462 Because it was whey versus an egg. 00:20:05.302 --> 00:20:08.632 And the claim was that you should never have whey protein because eggs 00:20:08.632 --> 00:20:11.422 provide protein in a better manner. 00:20:11.427 --> 00:20:16.522 And the, the debunking of that was it's context dependent because, 00:20:16.582 --> 00:20:20.512 um, they're both very viable and bioavailable sources of protein. 00:20:20.512 --> 00:20:23.632 One comes likely with a lot less calories per the protein. 00:20:23.872 --> 00:20:27.292 So maybe somebody needs more protein in their diet, but they don't need extra fat. 00:20:27.292 --> 00:20:28.582 They're already eating enough eggs. 00:20:28.942 --> 00:20:30.502 Or avocado or other sources of fat. 00:20:30.502 --> 00:20:35.382 So maybe the, extra eggs in their diet could be prohibitive because it would 00:20:35.387 --> 00:20:36.552 put them over in their daily calories. 00:20:36.552 --> 00:20:38.922 And gaining fat is probably not the right move. 00:20:39.642 --> 00:20:45.132 And so it's context dependent and people hate the answer of it depends, 00:20:45.132 --> 00:20:48.882 which is literally the answer for 99% of fitness and nutrition questions. 00:20:48.912 --> 00:20:50.142 It always depends. 00:20:50.682 --> 00:20:55.782 And so in a, in an attempt to be very disingenuous, um, and I kept saying 00:20:55.782 --> 00:20:59.322 it's context dependent, you know, who is the person, what are their goals? 00:20:59.352 --> 00:21:00.822 What does the rest of their diet look like? 00:21:00.822 --> 00:21:02.652 How does this fit in the overall diet? 00:21:03.252 --> 00:21:06.642 Both of them are excellent sources of protein. 00:21:06.642 --> 00:21:09.342 Both are excellent sources of food and neither of them really comes 00:21:09.342 --> 00:21:13.632 with a major negative unless you're eating like 30 eggs per day, you could 00:21:13.632 --> 00:21:15.882 potentially have some cholesterol issues. 00:21:16.122 --> 00:21:17.082 In normal intakes 00:21:17.082 --> 00:21:19.662 it's not a problem for cholesterol, it's cholesterol normative. 00:21:20.212 --> 00:21:23.212 But again, this is that, there's so much nuance to this and that's why 00:21:23.212 --> 00:21:26.452 I'm kind of like rambling about this because it takes a lot of discussion. 00:21:26.452 --> 00:21:28.222 So I kept saying it's context dependent. 00:21:28.552 --> 00:21:31.882 And he's like, okay, well if you're trapped on an a, a desert island and you 00:21:31.882 --> 00:21:36.472 can only have an egg or whey protein, I'm like, this is not, this is not the 00:21:36.472 --> 00:21:38.902 situation in which we are being presented. 00:21:38.902 --> 00:21:40.672 You're, you have a grocery store. 00:21:40.702 --> 00:21:42.532 Like, you know, there's other things that you're eating. 00:21:42.757 --> 00:21:45.397 Lindsay: I think that's the last thing that's gonna be on your mind 00:21:45.397 --> 00:21:46.892 if you're trapped on an island too, 00:21:46.922 --> 00:21:47.212 like. 00:21:47.602 --> 00:21:52.162 Dr. Allan: he, he literally asked this 10 minutes before we started this podcast. 00:21:52.582 --> 00:21:56.152 And, and in my mind I was laughing so hard about it 'cause I, I had explained 00:21:56.152 --> 00:21:57.952 that it was context dependent each time. 00:21:57.952 --> 00:21:59.962 And there's a lot of questions that you would need to ask to 00:21:59.962 --> 00:22:01.012 figure out if this is right. 00:22:01.012 --> 00:22:03.982 You know, is this the end of the day and we only have a hundred calories that we 00:22:03.987 --> 00:22:05.602 need to get 15 more grams of protein? 00:22:05.602 --> 00:22:06.502 Well, egg's not gonna work. 00:22:07.642 --> 00:22:07.932 Lindsay: Yeah. 00:22:08.022 --> 00:22:11.142 Dr. Allan: It's so funny when people bring up these situations because 00:22:11.142 --> 00:22:14.382 they're literally just trying to prove a point and not trying to learn. 00:22:14.952 --> 00:22:15.912 And that's fine. 00:22:15.917 --> 00:22:20.012 And even when you're talking with somebody who is an supposed authority 00:22:20.102 --> 00:22:23.552 on a subject, and if I'm debunking something, I'm the supposed or, or 00:22:23.552 --> 00:22:25.742 self-appointed authority on it, right? 00:22:25.982 --> 00:22:27.152 Whether I'm right or not. 00:22:27.436 --> 00:22:28.306 I could be wrong. 00:22:28.516 --> 00:22:29.986 And that's, that's okay. 00:22:29.986 --> 00:22:35.656 So present your case in a genuine manner, you know, present some peer-reviewed 00:22:35.661 --> 00:22:40.486 research or a relevant situation in which you could say, Hey, you know, 00:22:40.516 --> 00:22:45.466 I've looked at what you've presented and I don't think that this fits 00:22:45.466 --> 00:22:47.116 what you're saying and this is why. 00:22:47.116 --> 00:22:48.106 And that's okay. 00:22:48.496 --> 00:22:53.926 Let's not create a scenario where we're days from death because we can't get 00:22:53.926 --> 00:22:55.756 water and are trapped on a desert island. 00:22:55.846 --> 00:22:59.866 And so, you know, is what's the difference between whey and and an egg? 00:22:59.871 --> 00:23:01.426 I mean, do I have a shaker cup? 00:23:01.426 --> 00:23:03.556 Do I have water available? 00:23:03.556 --> 00:23:07.066 Like what amount of whe versus what amount of eggs? 00:23:07.546 --> 00:23:11.536 And like in my mind I kept thinking the answer is whatever has more calories. 00:23:11.536 --> 00:23:15.766 Because if I'm trapped on a desert island, any of the minuscule differences 00:23:15.771 --> 00:23:20.266 in vitamins and minerals will make no difference in the absence of calories. 00:23:20.266 --> 00:23:21.406 'cause I'm just gonna die. 00:23:21.706 --> 00:23:23.896 So I didn't wanna answer that 'cause I didn't wanna fall 00:23:23.896 --> 00:23:25.426 into this sea lion in context. 00:23:25.431 --> 00:23:29.596 But, but this is an example of people will get out there and be very disingenuous. 00:23:30.196 --> 00:23:35.506 And so if you are a person that wants to know who to follow and wants to actually 00:23:35.596 --> 00:23:37.876 objectively learn, then objectively learn. 00:23:37.876 --> 00:23:41.716 And don't go into it with a, oh, I'm gonna prove my stance. 00:23:41.716 --> 00:23:42.556 Don't prove your stance. 00:23:42.556 --> 00:23:44.536 Don't ever try to prove your stance. 00:23:45.016 --> 00:23:50.251 Try to figure out, why is what I think potentially wrong, and maybe 00:23:50.251 --> 00:23:54.211 it isn't, but you need to be critical about that because you can be wrong. 00:23:54.691 --> 00:23:57.991 And even anybody with a doctor in front of their title can easily be wrong. 00:23:57.991 --> 00:23:59.761 I mean, we see it all the time on social media. 00:24:00.331 --> 00:24:04.241 So, just like gen Pop needs to be overly critical about themselves, 00:24:04.246 --> 00:24:10.091 so do we as as fitness and nutrition providers, but part of us being genuine 00:24:10.481 --> 00:24:14.561 is receiving legitimate questions and legitimate critiques rather 00:24:14.561 --> 00:24:16.691 than emotionally driven critiques. 00:24:17.516 --> 00:24:22.406 Lindsay: There's, there's somebody that I can, uh, think of, um, I used 00:24:22.406 --> 00:24:30.986 to follow him and then he, he blocked me, but I, I shared a study and he, 00:24:31.016 --> 00:24:32.576 that, that was very threatening to him. 00:24:32.576 --> 00:24:35.996 But anyways, so he blocked me, but it's frustrating. 00:24:35.996 --> 00:24:41.456 I remember when I followed him for a short time, and people would ask him questions 00:24:41.846 --> 00:24:44.156 and his response was, that's stupid. 00:24:44.156 --> 00:24:45.806 Or You're stupid if you believe that. 00:24:45.806 --> 00:24:49.496 And I'm like there's too much ego involved here. 00:24:49.916 --> 00:24:55.136 So I feel like if you're gonna follow somebody, a huge red flag 00:24:55.496 --> 00:24:59.731 can be like, are they more concerned about who's right or what's right. 00:25:00.046 --> 00:25:00.406 Dr. Allan: Yeah. 00:25:00.406 --> 00:25:02.536 I, you know, I, I a hundred percent agree with you. 00:25:02.566 --> 00:25:09.646 Um, I, I'm, I'm, I'm hesitantly responding because I, I can remember long ago when 00:25:09.646 --> 00:25:14.506 I first started, I was a lot worse at responding to some of these questions. 00:25:14.506 --> 00:25:16.426 I mean, like years and years ago. 00:25:16.426 --> 00:25:17.986 And I'd be like, look at the research. 00:25:17.986 --> 00:25:18.946 I literally presented it. 00:25:19.066 --> 00:25:20.776 Now I'm a much more patient person. 00:25:21.436 --> 00:25:24.676 And so as you're, as you're saying that, I a hundred percent agree with you. 00:25:24.676 --> 00:25:28.186 And I think that there are going to be times where people that 00:25:28.186 --> 00:25:31.846 you talk to on social media are going to be emotionally defensive. 00:25:31.846 --> 00:25:33.676 And even people that know what they're talking about are 00:25:33.676 --> 00:25:34.786 being emotionally defensive. 00:25:35.246 --> 00:25:39.201 I don't think that there's necessarily an excuse for acting that way, but I 00:25:39.201 --> 00:25:42.231 do understand sometimes why, why we do. 00:25:42.471 --> 00:25:46.461 Now if, if you're, again, this is, this all goes back to being genuine 00:25:46.461 --> 00:25:49.161 and why, and why I think you're reinforcing that message really well. 00:25:50.061 --> 00:25:54.981 If you have a critique of a person, please try not to bring up desert 00:25:54.981 --> 00:25:59.811 islands, but please do actually pay attention to what they're saying. 00:25:59.811 --> 00:26:03.021 And then if you have a critique and you say, okay, well, and, and I've seen this 00:26:03.021 --> 00:26:07.401 all the time in our, in, you know, the debunks that I do, if a person says, 00:26:07.401 --> 00:26:11.421 well, I see the information that you presented, but I see this study and 00:26:11.421 --> 00:26:12.741 this study says something different. 00:26:13.686 --> 00:26:15.036 And, um, that's fine. 00:26:15.036 --> 00:26:15.636 I love that. 00:26:15.686 --> 00:26:17.066 There's one of two things that are gonna happen. 00:26:17.906 --> 00:26:20.996 Either I'm gonna see that and say, oh, shit, he's right. 00:26:21.356 --> 00:26:26.456 And then, then I potentially have to amend the way that I think, or 00:26:26.461 --> 00:26:28.406 I'm gonna look at that and I'm gonna be like, well, I actually covered 00:26:28.406 --> 00:26:29.906 why this doesn't make any sense. 00:26:29.906 --> 00:26:33.416 But then I get to point that out, and that, that happens more often 00:26:33.416 --> 00:26:35.696 than not with people that really know what they're talking about. 00:26:35.696 --> 00:26:39.176 But that's okay because when you point out why those studies 00:26:39.176 --> 00:26:43.266 aren't necessarily relevant, that person can potentially learn. 00:26:43.271 --> 00:26:45.486 But more importantly than that, because a lot of times those people are 00:26:45.491 --> 00:26:48.656 emotionally vested, more importantly than that, all the lurkers are gonna learn. 00:26:49.176 --> 00:26:49.616 Lindsay: Mm-Hmm. 00:26:49.706 --> 00:26:49.946 Because 00:26:49.946 --> 00:26:54.036 Dr. Allan: the people that don't say anything tend to be more objective 00:26:54.036 --> 00:26:56.016 than the person that's that's arguing. 00:26:56.721 --> 00:26:57.171 Lindsay: Yeah. 00:26:57.291 --> 00:27:00.051 Dr. Allan: And so for the, for the fitness professionals out there 00:27:00.051 --> 00:27:02.151 that are really trying to make a difference, keep that in mind. 00:27:02.151 --> 00:27:05.511 I mean, that's, that's one thing that, that I learned, and I, I try 00:27:05.511 --> 00:27:08.211 to keep in mind every time that I respond to people until it becomes 00:27:08.211 --> 00:27:12.596 ridiculous, that it's not just a conversation between you and that person. 00:27:12.596 --> 00:27:14.186 There are a lot of people that are learning from it. 00:27:14.186 --> 00:27:17.816 So if you can display why some of those things are wrong, you're 00:27:17.816 --> 00:27:21.386 gonna answer a lot of questions that haven't explicitly been posed. 00:27:21.591 --> 00:27:24.261 And the problem with a lot of these people that are spreading misinformation, 00:27:24.266 --> 00:27:32.091 the, the gurus in the charlatans is there is a very, very, um, molecular and 00:27:32.541 --> 00:27:35.241 animal heavy slant to their research. 00:27:36.441 --> 00:27:36.801 Lindsay: Mm. 00:27:36.921 --> 00:27:42.831 Dr. Allan: people don't realize that molecular data and animal data, 00:27:43.129 --> 00:27:48.829 it very rarely translates directly to humans and in the human body. 00:27:49.159 --> 00:27:53.959 You know, I could take someone's liver and I could, I could do something to 00:27:53.959 --> 00:27:58.959 it, and I could, you know, put a whole bunch of, of whatever ingredient it is 00:27:59.019 --> 00:28:03.909 in a medium with this liver, and we could cause liver failure in the human body. 00:28:04.689 --> 00:28:06.369 It might not look anything like that. 00:28:06.399 --> 00:28:09.189 It might not look anything like that because your kidneys are also functioning 00:28:09.189 --> 00:28:12.429 and your kidneys are removing the large majority of that ingredient 00:28:12.429 --> 00:28:14.979 from the body before it even has a chance to do anything to the liver. 00:28:16.044 --> 00:28:20.264 And so in conjunction, the human body is a very complex and amazing thing. 00:28:20.774 --> 00:28:27.044 And so when we get into these things, like nematodes or, or rats or, or 00:28:27.044 --> 00:28:32.654 molecular data, even the in vitro data where we're using human cells, there 00:28:32.659 --> 00:28:37.694 are compensatory mechanisms in the body and additional mechanisms in the 00:28:37.694 --> 00:28:42.884 body that will often prevent these problems from even remotely happening. 00:28:42.884 --> 00:28:46.214 So, you know, the dose of whatever's happening is really important. 00:28:46.454 --> 00:28:49.994 The movement of the rest of the pieces of the body is really important. 00:28:49.994 --> 00:28:55.094 And so be very careful when you are engaging with these people and make 00:28:55.094 --> 00:28:59.564 sure that they're giving you research that's in humans showing practical 00:28:59.654 --> 00:29:04.357 effects at realistic intakes or, methods of whatever you're trying to do. 00:29:04.357 --> 00:29:07.477 And I mean, one of the things that pops up to me is cold water 00:29:07.477 --> 00:29:09.277 immersion and, and cryotherapy. 00:29:10.237 --> 00:29:14.467 99% of the information that these people are giving out to prove that cold water 00:29:14.467 --> 00:29:19.687 and cryo works requires you to sit in an ice tub up to your neck for over an hour. 00:29:19.837 --> 00:29:25.717 It requires you to spend a lot more time doing things that you could get the same 00:29:25.717 --> 00:29:30.157 results, doing other things that are much shorter and provide much more benefits. 00:29:30.622 --> 00:29:33.112 Lindsay: And more enjoyable for most of us too. 00:29:33.247 --> 00:29:34.087 Dr. Allan: and more enjoyable. 00:29:34.117 --> 00:29:34.417 Yeah. 00:29:34.417 --> 00:29:38.377 There's, the dopamine angle comes into play, and I'm gonna give this example 00:29:38.377 --> 00:29:41.857 because it's, it's a good way to discuss this and, and give a practical 00:29:41.857 --> 00:29:43.057 example of what I'm talking about. 00:29:43.747 --> 00:29:46.357 So there are, there are podcasters that will come out and I've actually 00:29:46.357 --> 00:29:50.557 heard them say, if you get in cold water for three minutes, you're 00:29:50.557 --> 00:29:52.447 gonna boost your dopamine by 250%. 00:29:53.707 --> 00:29:56.467 One, that's never been, I've actually heard that exact claim, 00:29:56.467 --> 00:29:59.677 and it's by a person that has over a million followers on, on Instagram. 00:30:01.027 --> 00:30:02.107 One that's never been shown. 00:30:03.442 --> 00:30:06.322 There's a study that shows that there's a 250% increase in 00:30:06.322 --> 00:30:11.452 dopamine, and it was done in 2000 by someone named Shreek, I believe. 00:30:11.452 --> 00:30:13.852 Don't quote me on the last name, but I can get it to anybody 00:30:13.852 --> 00:30:14.902 that wants, just message me. 00:30:15.412 --> 00:30:17.332 But they, they sat in ice for an hour. 00:30:18.172 --> 00:30:24.012 The problem with this is you can get a comparable increase to that by just 00:30:24.012 --> 00:30:25.242 getting on a bike for 10 minutes. 00:30:25.247 --> 00:30:29.472 A stationary bike, you can get a significant increase in dopamine by just 00:30:29.477 --> 00:30:31.722 sitting still for five to 10 minutes. 00:30:32.502 --> 00:30:37.062 And this dopamine increase when you look at the research, if you do this 00:30:37.062 --> 00:30:42.892 icing or cryo repeatedly, the dopamine increase attenuates, it becomes less and 00:30:42.892 --> 00:30:44.332 less and less each time that you do it. 00:30:44.337 --> 00:30:45.652 But none of that's mentioned. 00:30:46.162 --> 00:30:51.667 So instead they're selling thousand dollar cold tubs, for a, an effect 00:30:52.147 --> 00:30:55.087 that you could get by hopping on a bike for 10 minutes and then 00:30:55.087 --> 00:30:56.617 increasing your cardiovascular health. 00:30:57.077 --> 00:30:58.937 Going for a run for 10 minutes would do this. 00:30:58.937 --> 00:31:01.577 Increasing your cardiovascular health, increasing stroke volume 00:31:01.577 --> 00:31:03.797 so you perform better aerobically. 00:31:04.197 --> 00:31:11.247 There are all these nuances and it's really difficult to discuss this because 00:31:11.247 --> 00:31:16.557 you get the guy with a million followers and, you know, without even remotely 00:31:16.557 --> 00:31:20.667 looking at any of the research he presents, people just take that as gospel. 00:31:21.837 --> 00:31:26.517 And so debunking stuff is a, is unfortunately a, a daily job. 00:31:26.517 --> 00:31:29.607 But it's something that I think is, is really important because 00:31:30.447 --> 00:31:33.627 I don't think that people realize how much they're being misled. 00:31:34.017 --> 00:31:34.377 Lindsay: Yeah. 00:31:34.604 --> 00:31:38.504 I'm torn a little bit on sometimes how it's done. 00:31:38.954 --> 00:31:39.284 I 00:31:39.734 --> 00:31:40.724 Dr. Allan: The debunking itself. 00:31:41.354 --> 00:31:41.744 Yeah. 00:31:42.344 --> 00:31:45.524 Lindsay: I really appreciate how you do it. 00:31:46.064 --> 00:31:48.974 You usually keep it comical light. 00:31:49.494 --> 00:31:54.324 I'm not a huge fan of inciting a ton of anger and hate on the internet. 00:31:54.954 --> 00:31:56.874 I think it already exists out there. 00:31:57.114 --> 00:31:59.514 Dr. Allan: I think that debunking itself is gonna incite anger and 00:31:59.514 --> 00:32:00.864 hate regardless of how you do it. 00:32:00.864 --> 00:32:03.894 The reason that, that I like to do the humor in it is because it's the only way 00:32:03.894 --> 00:32:05.124 that I can get through it day to day. 00:32:05.124 --> 00:32:08.694 I mean, it's a lot of, it's a lot of content creation and like when I start 00:32:08.699 --> 00:32:11.514 to think, oh, this would be fun for me to do, like, I, that actually motivates 00:32:11.514 --> 00:32:12.684 me to, to get out there and do it. 00:32:13.104 --> 00:32:17.094 And I understand that there are a lot of people that, that hate there, 00:32:17.184 --> 00:32:19.074 there are far more people that like it, but there are a lot of people 00:32:19.074 --> 00:32:24.804 that, that dislike debunking stuff because they, they feel like it's 00:32:24.804 --> 00:32:26.874 essentially attacking the person. 00:32:26.994 --> 00:32:32.774 But I think that it's, it's a necessary evil in some ways, and it's necessary 00:32:32.774 --> 00:32:38.314 because there is no overarching body that actually looks out for the information 00:32:38.314 --> 00:32:39.514 that's being put out there, right? 00:32:39.934 --> 00:32:43.774 So this directly addresses false and misleading information, and, and in 00:32:43.774 --> 00:32:47.854 the way that at least I do it, there's at, there's at least accessible and 00:32:47.854 --> 00:32:50.224 verifiable peer reviewed research. 00:32:50.704 --> 00:32:54.524 It, you know, ends up protecting the public from health professionals 00:32:54.524 --> 00:32:58.274 who may be preying on them from their fears and misconceptions. 00:32:58.304 --> 00:33:01.514 It can prevent no SIBO or exacerbation of disordered eating. 00:33:01.754 --> 00:33:05.234 These things need to be addressed and unfortunately, as we discussed 00:33:05.234 --> 00:33:10.764 earlier, they're gonna have much higher reach being completely off the wall 00:33:10.764 --> 00:33:13.044 and making absolutely insane claims, 00:33:13.044 --> 00:33:16.224 like you're gonna improve your dopamine by 250% with three minutes, 00:33:16.404 --> 00:33:20.574 which has never been shown, but it, it spread like wildfire. 00:33:21.609 --> 00:33:23.469 People just take it at face value. 00:33:23.469 --> 00:33:27.279 People are more willing to take outrageous claims at face value than 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.319 they are peer reviewed research. 00:33:29.919 --> 00:33:38.379 And so in a way, we almost have to be as engaging and humorous, but 00:33:38.379 --> 00:33:42.519 we have to do it in a way that is ultimately, hopefully for someone 00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:45.519 else's benefit instead of for our own. 00:33:46.059 --> 00:33:49.479 But to be able to reach people on social media, you have to play the game. 00:33:49.822 --> 00:33:51.217 Lindsay: See, I hate that though. 00:33:51.367 --> 00:33:54.127 This is actually a really good conversation right now because I, 00:33:54.547 --> 00:34:01.237 I feel this need, I so much when I see these things out there that 00:34:01.237 --> 00:34:02.827 I'm like, this is ridiculous. 00:34:03.007 --> 00:34:07.567 And I get tons of people messaging me saying, have you seen this exercise 00:34:07.567 --> 00:34:09.487 or have you seen this diet method? 00:34:09.487 --> 00:34:10.747 Or have you seen this claim? 00:34:11.107 --> 00:34:16.387 And I, and I end up in my, like with my clients or my app user 00:34:16.387 --> 00:34:18.217 spending so much time debunking. 00:34:18.577 --> 00:34:24.247 But I'm hesitant because I, I don't want, just like what you said, 00:34:24.277 --> 00:34:27.127 I don't want to attack a person. 00:34:28.117 --> 00:34:33.457 I don't wanna shame a person, but I, I am like struggling right now with 00:34:33.457 --> 00:34:39.532 this, but, we need to address the ideas that are being perpetuated. 00:34:39.622 --> 00:34:46.042 And like you said, it's not just like this idea is in and of itself is 00:34:46.102 --> 00:34:53.602 inaccurate, it's what are the indirect effects it's having or direct on people's 00:34:54.007 --> 00:35:01.972 relationship with food, with fitness, with just overall time management. 00:35:01.977 --> 00:35:06.172 Because now they think that they need to throw in some new modality into 00:35:06.262 --> 00:35:09.922 what's already working and what's already giving them these same benefits. 00:35:09.927 --> 00:35:11.932 But they don't know that. 00:35:11.932 --> 00:35:16.792 And I'm, I find myself really struggling. 00:35:16.792 --> 00:35:23.532 How do I show up having integrity and acting in a way that I believe is in 00:35:23.537 --> 00:35:29.002 line with my own principles that I like to follow, but at the same time, how do 00:35:29.002 --> 00:35:32.737 I show up for other people to say no. 00:35:33.367 --> 00:35:39.667 I know Huberman is a really nice person, but a lot of the people he has on his 00:35:39.667 --> 00:35:43.177 show is spreading such wild information. 00:35:43.177 --> 00:35:45.457 I believe it's hurting rather than helping. 00:35:45.937 --> 00:35:48.157 And it's like, how do I, I don't know. 00:35:48.157 --> 00:35:49.147 What are your thoughts on that? 00:35:49.147 --> 00:35:50.197 Because I, I 00:35:50.257 --> 00:35:51.817 Dr. Allan: you You wanna be able to sleep at night is 00:35:51.817 --> 00:35:52.807 essentially what you're saying. 00:35:53.737 --> 00:35:53.917 Lindsay: Yeah. 00:35:53.917 --> 00:35:54.007 I 00:35:54.007 --> 00:35:55.477 Dr. Allan: Af after putting out content. 00:35:56.137 --> 00:35:56.527 Right. 00:35:57.007 --> 00:36:01.297 Um, you know, it, it's, it's difficult and these people that we're debunking, 00:36:01.327 --> 00:36:04.027 they don't seem to have any qualms with spreading bad information. 00:36:04.837 --> 00:36:08.317 And so unfortunately you are, you're dealing with 00:36:09.352 --> 00:36:11.962 a situation of how can you actually help people. 00:36:12.022 --> 00:36:14.662 And so you need to find that balance for you. 00:36:14.662 --> 00:36:17.152 And, and that balance is gonna be different for every person. 00:36:17.152 --> 00:36:19.132 And not everybody's going to agree with the way that you do it. 00:36:19.522 --> 00:36:23.759 I can tell you that when I would put out stuff and say, Hey, 00:36:24.012 --> 00:36:25.242 this is a controversial topic. 00:36:25.242 --> 00:36:26.082 Here's the research. 00:36:27.252 --> 00:36:28.812 People don't really seem to care. 00:36:28.812 --> 00:36:31.902 Now when you're addressing someone else's claim, then all of a sudden 00:36:31.902 --> 00:36:36.942 they've got a lot of questions because it's almost like, it's almost like, hey, 00:36:36.942 --> 00:36:38.202 they wanna be part of that discussion. 00:36:38.832 --> 00:36:43.212 So it works significantly better than just putting out information. 00:36:44.182 --> 00:36:47.782 And I tried for years with just putting out blanket information, 00:36:47.782 --> 00:36:49.312 Hey, this is, this is what it is. 00:36:49.312 --> 00:36:51.202 And, and it just, it doesn't seem to work. 00:36:51.202 --> 00:36:54.892 Ultimately what I had to ask myself is when I'm debunking this 00:36:54.892 --> 00:36:58.922 person, do I feel like they are smart enough to actually know what 00:36:58.922 --> 00:37:00.572 they're saying is probably wrong. 00:37:00.572 --> 00:37:03.122 And in, in 99% of the cases, the people that I debunk, I'm like, 00:37:03.122 --> 00:37:04.042 they know what they're saying is 00:37:04.042 --> 00:37:04.262 Lindsay: wrong. 00:37:04.262 --> 00:37:04.482 Yeah. 00:37:04.482 --> 00:37:09.062 Dr. Allan: and they're doing it because they want to become famous 00:37:09.067 --> 00:37:12.272 or they want more money and they literally don't care what's happened 00:37:12.482 --> 00:37:13.682 to the people that they're hurting. 00:37:14.232 --> 00:37:17.712 And I think that when you make a lot of money from putting something 00:37:17.712 --> 00:37:19.992 out, I think that you can convince yourself of a lot of things. 00:37:19.992 --> 00:37:27.882 But maybe if you finally get challenged, you start to acknowledge 00:37:27.887 --> 00:37:31.752 or at least get a little bit more concerned about making brazen claims. 00:37:32.802 --> 00:37:37.272 And so maybe challenging some of these people is the right way to help 00:37:37.512 --> 00:37:41.532 ultimately down the line thousands and thousands of more people by 00:37:41.562 --> 00:37:45.702 making them hold some accountability with the platforms that they have. 00:37:45.707 --> 00:37:49.692 Because right now there's no accountability to these large podcasts 00:37:49.692 --> 00:37:50.832 and, and social media platforms. 00:37:50.832 --> 00:37:51.197 There's none. 00:37:52.087 --> 00:37:52.527 There's none. 00:37:52.737 --> 00:37:55.227 And, and the biggest problem is then who's gonna police this? 00:37:55.227 --> 00:38:00.477 And it's gotta be one people that know how to give the right information. 00:38:00.477 --> 00:38:03.477 So it's gotta be somebody that is educated on the topic. 00:38:04.367 --> 00:38:08.237 Then you need to somehow be able to reach people. 00:38:08.267 --> 00:38:12.527 So like you said, they stop wasting their time on the small rocks to 00:38:12.527 --> 00:38:15.617 fill the basket, and they actually pay attention to the large rocks. 00:38:15.887 --> 00:38:18.377 Because right now all we're doing is paying attention to small rocks 00:38:18.467 --> 00:38:23.417 on social media, extended fasts, uh, antinutrients, menstrual phase 00:38:23.422 --> 00:38:27.887 training, cold water, cleansing, toxins, seed oils, and corn syrup. 00:38:27.892 --> 00:38:31.997 I mean, all of these things have been so massively blown out of 00:38:31.997 --> 00:38:33.437 proportion or misrepresented. 00:38:34.342 --> 00:38:36.347 And, and how do you, how do you address this? 00:38:36.347 --> 00:38:39.887 I mean, and every time we come up with a debunking video, you see 00:38:39.887 --> 00:38:41.837 people arguing the opposite stance. 00:38:41.867 --> 00:38:46.217 And so clearly a lot of damage has been done. 00:38:47.122 --> 00:38:51.382 And like I said, you have to find that balance with what you're comfortable with. 00:38:51.382 --> 00:38:55.817 I actually feel less bad about debunking a doctor than I do 00:38:55.817 --> 00:38:57.167 about debunking somebody else. 00:38:57.527 --> 00:39:02.537 Because in the back of my mind I'm like, you have the education to know 00:39:02.627 --> 00:39:04.037 that what you're saying is wrong. 00:39:05.177 --> 00:39:09.187 And yet you are either choosing to ignore the information or you are 00:39:09.457 --> 00:39:12.517 actively pushing the wrong information. 00:39:12.757 --> 00:39:15.904 And so is the direct debunking method, correct. 00:39:15.904 --> 00:39:17.164 It's not correct for everybody. 00:39:17.884 --> 00:39:18.934 Does it work? 00:39:18.934 --> 00:39:19.624 It works. 00:39:19.684 --> 00:39:20.284 Does it help people? 00:39:20.289 --> 00:39:21.244 It helps a lot of people. 00:39:22.144 --> 00:39:29.209 It's difficult to 100% justify showing up someone else's video and saying, 00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:31.789 this is a hundred percent wrong, even when it is a hundred percent wrong. 00:39:32.389 --> 00:39:36.679 And it's difficult to do that because, you know, in a way there's, there's going 00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:41.359 to be people that always disagree with that, but does it do more harm than good? 00:39:41.364 --> 00:39:42.829 I mean, if you're giving the right information, I think 00:39:42.829 --> 00:39:43.789 it does a lot more good. 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:44.539 Lindsay: Hmm, 00:39:45.259 --> 00:39:47.299 Dr. Allan: it's just something to consider and, and does that 00:39:47.299 --> 00:39:48.379 make it the right move for you? 00:39:48.379 --> 00:39:49.459 Maybe, maybe not. 00:39:49.789 --> 00:39:51.349 And it's not the right move for everybody. 00:39:51.709 --> 00:39:51.949 Lindsay: hmm. 00:39:52.999 --> 00:39:53.899 No, I love that. 00:39:53.904 --> 00:39:54.889 I love hearing that. 00:39:54.939 --> 00:39:56.799 We're gonna finish with one other topic. 00:39:56.799 --> 00:40:01.869 We're gonna kind of shift gears, well, not really, but you talked about doctors. 00:40:02.459 --> 00:40:05.789 Now I wanna talk about a different population, and that's just like 00:40:06.419 --> 00:40:08.519 the people with the good stories. 00:40:09.059 --> 00:40:14.369 There's always somebody with a really good story, and that's how they get big and 00:40:14.369 --> 00:40:18.479 sell themselves, and they do it on TikTok and Instagram and all that good stuff. 00:40:18.479 --> 00:40:26.299 They, they, they share, personal stories of how doing, like you said, just getting 00:40:26.299 --> 00:40:30.409 in cold water every morning and they have this big, huge story around it. 00:40:30.619 --> 00:40:31.879 That's why everybody should do it. 00:40:31.879 --> 00:40:36.199 People love stories, so it's not just these doctors that have this 00:40:36.204 --> 00:40:41.059 power, it's somebody with a really good story that has that power. 00:40:41.509 --> 00:40:43.789 And tell me your thoughts on this. 00:40:43.789 --> 00:40:46.369 I've been thinking a lot about this lately, about these 00:40:46.369 --> 00:40:47.929 stories that people tell. 00:40:48.619 --> 00:40:51.829 They always tell these stories to prove that they're right. 00:40:51.919 --> 00:40:53.299 And I'm like, but do you know what? 00:40:53.509 --> 00:40:59.039 I have kids and I listen to their, the whole, correlation isn't causation. 00:40:59.459 --> 00:41:02.849 I listen to my kids making correlations and I'm just like, 00:41:02.879 --> 00:41:04.679 oh my gosh, you're horrible. 00:41:05.144 --> 00:41:06.074 Dr. Allan: Yeah, I mean the, the 00:41:06.359 --> 00:41:07.169 Lindsay: horrible at this. 00:41:07.244 --> 00:41:10.934 Dr. Allan: the story aspect is even more influential than, than 00:41:10.934 --> 00:41:13.364 anything else because people want an emotional connection. 00:41:13.739 --> 00:41:14.429 Lindsay: Yes. 00:41:14.809 --> 00:41:16.514 Dr. Allan: connections really make a big difference. 00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:19.784 That's actually why the debunking tends to work, because people 00:41:19.784 --> 00:41:21.554 love that emotional, it, it raises 00:41:21.554 --> 00:41:22.074 Lindsay: emotion. 00:41:22.074 --> 00:41:22.294 Yeah. 00:41:22.534 --> 00:41:22.764 Yeah. 00:41:22.964 --> 00:41:25.454 Dr. Allan: so, and so you can use that for good or evil. 00:41:25.874 --> 00:41:29.954 The problem is being an evidence-based person. 00:41:29.954 --> 00:41:31.814 I hate that moniker, 00:41:32.074 --> 00:41:33.959 Lindsay: term just like has loft. 00:41:33.959 --> 00:41:34.199 Its, 00:41:34.754 --> 00:41:36.494 Dr. Allan: it's so subverted at this point. 00:41:37.244 --> 00:41:39.344 But with as much citations as I dump in 00:41:39.374 --> 00:41:39.964 Lindsay: There you go. 00:41:40.154 --> 00:41:42.589 Dr. Allan: I think, I think I can put it at least sometimes, people are 00:41:42.594 --> 00:41:43.819 gonna be so angry when they hear this. 00:41:44.419 --> 00:41:46.009 People don't know anything about their bodies. 00:41:46.789 --> 00:41:47.869 You are not, you. 00:41:47.869 --> 00:41:48.559 don't know anything. 00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:49.669 You don't know anything about your body. 00:41:50.089 --> 00:41:50.839 It works for me. 00:41:50.839 --> 00:41:51.469 You don't know that. 00:41:51.829 --> 00:41:52.609 You just, you don't. 00:41:52.819 --> 00:41:56.899 And and it's funny because if you look at any of the placebo research out 00:41:56.899 --> 00:42:00.199 there, I mean, it, it proves over and over and over again that people don't 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:01.129 know anything about their bodies. 00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:02.209 You don't know what works. 00:42:02.659 --> 00:42:03.409 What does work? 00:42:03.409 --> 00:42:04.999 Expectation effects work. 00:42:05.749 --> 00:42:08.419 What does work is the base things that we're all pushing. 00:42:08.419 --> 00:42:09.559 Let, let me give you an example. 00:42:09.589 --> 00:42:11.269 Um, fasting. 00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:14.329 I fasted for three straight days and I lost a lot of weight. 00:42:14.389 --> 00:42:16.969 Therefore, in my experience, fasting is the best thing ever. 00:42:16.974 --> 00:42:17.839 And fasting works. 00:42:18.499 --> 00:42:19.009 Okay. 00:42:19.339 --> 00:42:24.379 So let's look at the research when we compare a fast to an iso 00:42:24.379 --> 00:42:26.689 caloric continuous standard diet. 00:42:27.739 --> 00:42:28.669 Zero difference 00:42:28.979 --> 00:42:29.399 Lindsay: mm-Hmm. 00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:32.209 Dr. Allan: In controlled situations where a person has been sequestered. 00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:34.219 They feed them the food, they monitor what they eat. 00:42:34.699 --> 00:42:35.359 No difference. 00:42:35.569 --> 00:42:36.559 No difference in body comp. 00:42:36.949 --> 00:42:39.559 No dis difference in cardiometabolic Risk factors, no difference in 00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:43.609 blood lipids, no difference in autophagy, no difference in cancer 00:42:43.894 --> 00:42:45.514 risk or susceptibility. 00:42:46.214 --> 00:42:49.544 But there is a risk to muscle loss when you're doing these extended fast. 00:42:49.544 --> 00:42:53.114 So there is a negative to extended fasting, but you'll hear people 00:42:53.114 --> 00:42:55.214 talk about all the time, well, fasting really works for me. 00:42:55.214 --> 00:42:57.614 Well, okay, well let's think about what's happening here. 00:42:57.619 --> 00:43:00.944 Well, you've stopped eating, which means your muscle 00:43:00.974 --> 00:43:02.264 glycogen stores are gonna drop. 00:43:02.294 --> 00:43:04.784 There goes a bunch of weight, there's no food in your system. 00:43:04.844 --> 00:43:05.714 There goes a bunch of weight. 00:43:06.414 --> 00:43:10.344 Your body's flushing out water because there's no gradient. 00:43:10.344 --> 00:43:11.694 There are less electrolytes in your body. 00:43:11.694 --> 00:43:12.864 There are less carbs in your body. 00:43:12.864 --> 00:43:17.329 So there's not anything to pull water into the musculature or into other spots of the 00:43:17.329 --> 00:43:23.629 body where, where, uh, glucose sits and, um, all that weighs a significant amount. 00:43:24.469 --> 00:43:27.889 And so dropping five or six pounds in three days, well, yeah, uh, but 00:43:27.949 --> 00:43:31.789 maybe half a pound of it, a quarter of a pound of it's fat, and then the 00:43:31.789 --> 00:43:33.079 rest is muscle, glycogen and water. 00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:35.539 But for everybody else, they're like, well, I just lost a ton 00:43:35.539 --> 00:43:36.649 of weight, therefore this works. 00:43:37.459 --> 00:43:40.819 You can continue that out for, for longer periods of time or higher frequency, 00:43:40.819 --> 00:43:42.079 and you're gonna continue losing weight. 00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:42.829 But why? 00:43:42.859 --> 00:43:45.199 It's because we know that that calorie deficit works. 00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:48.499 And that's what that, that research between the continuous dieting and, 00:43:48.829 --> 00:43:52.709 and the extended fast tells us the continuous diet works in the same manner. 00:43:52.859 --> 00:43:56.219 It may take a little bit longer, but it takes a little bit longer 00:43:56.219 --> 00:43:58.859 and you retain your performance, you retain that lean muscle. 00:43:58.859 --> 00:44:01.199 That's much harder to get than, than losing fat is. 00:44:01.569 --> 00:44:05.049 You don't have some of these other risks of micronutrient deficiencies 00:44:05.049 --> 00:44:08.109 that come with it, but these people that have the experience of, well, I 00:44:08.109 --> 00:44:10.329 fasted and, and I lost a lot of weight. 00:44:10.334 --> 00:44:14.829 Well, yes, but you don't really know what you lost. 00:44:14.859 --> 00:44:18.609 You're assuming that you lost body fat and you, you looked in the mirror 00:44:18.609 --> 00:44:21.189 and you look a lot better because you lost a lot of water weight. 00:44:21.189 --> 00:44:24.009 So you look more shredded than ever before because you're dry. 00:44:24.924 --> 00:44:28.134 But then you start eating carbs again, and you start drinking 00:44:28.134 --> 00:44:30.294 water again, and then you blow up. 00:44:30.384 --> 00:44:33.324 And you know, there's a lot of people that are saying, well, no, 00:44:33.324 --> 00:44:35.514 you know, I continued fasting and it kept going down and down and down. 00:44:35.544 --> 00:44:36.054 Yes. 00:44:36.264 --> 00:44:40.014 And then you lost more and more and more lean muscle, which made 00:44:40.014 --> 00:44:41.664 the, the weight loss go faster. 00:44:41.664 --> 00:44:44.424 So there's a lot of negatives that people don't look at. 00:44:44.424 --> 00:44:50.394 And so these, these experiences are clouded by what we want to see 00:44:51.204 --> 00:44:52.854 in a lot of, a lot of instances. 00:44:53.184 --> 00:44:55.974 And, you know, going back to the, to the icing, because you, you talked 00:44:55.974 --> 00:44:59.694 about how icing is something that people say, I do this and I feel amazing. 00:45:00.594 --> 00:45:02.814 Okay, well we know that, 00:45:02.914 --> 00:45:07.084 a, you're gonna get a, uh, a short-term boost of your sympathetic nervous 00:45:07.084 --> 00:45:09.994 system when you jump in ice, I mean, you get the same thing when you're 00:45:09.994 --> 00:45:13.654 scared or when you run or when you listen to, to happy music, you get a 00:45:13.654 --> 00:45:15.154 boost and you feel, you feel great. 00:45:15.694 --> 00:45:19.654 On top of that, if you believe that this is something that really works, 00:45:19.684 --> 00:45:23.914 expectation effects kick in, you placebo yourself, and it's amazing 00:45:23.914 --> 00:45:25.774 what we can convince ourselves of. 00:45:26.584 --> 00:45:29.934 And so, are these stories reputable? 00:45:29.934 --> 00:45:30.294 No. 00:45:30.294 --> 00:45:32.124 They're, they're the farthest thing from reputable. 00:45:32.124 --> 00:45:33.234 What control did they have? 00:45:33.234 --> 00:45:38.424 Did they compare it to a situation where they did, you know, for a fasting person, 00:45:38.424 --> 00:45:40.404 I fasted and I lost this much weight. 00:45:40.554 --> 00:45:40.794 Okay. 00:45:40.794 --> 00:45:45.594 Well, did you compare that to a, an isocaloric continuous diet? 00:45:45.594 --> 00:45:46.614 How much weight did you lose there? 00:45:46.614 --> 00:45:47.544 Well, I didn't do that. 00:45:48.114 --> 00:45:48.504 Okay. 00:45:48.504 --> 00:45:52.224 Well, did you get a DEXA scan to see how much muscle you lost 00:45:52.229 --> 00:45:53.094 versus how much fat you lost? 00:45:53.099 --> 00:45:54.054 Well, I didn't do that either. 00:45:54.684 --> 00:45:54.864 Okay. 00:45:54.869 --> 00:45:56.604 Well, what happened to your performance during this period? 00:45:56.604 --> 00:45:57.564 Well, I didn't watch that. 00:45:57.879 --> 00:46:00.624 So you don't really know what happened. 00:46:01.389 --> 00:46:02.019 I guess not. 00:46:02.889 --> 00:46:03.459 Okay. 00:46:03.829 --> 00:46:08.204 There's so much about all of this that's, so you're just 00:46:08.204 --> 00:46:09.674 taking a, a person's word for it. 00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:13.244 And, and, you know, for the, for this is putting it really bluntly, but it's 00:46:13.244 --> 00:46:14.924 essentially like saying, trust me, bro, 00:46:15.809 --> 00:46:16.319 Lindsay: Mm-Hmm. 00:46:16.334 --> 00:46:16.634 Dr. Allan: happened. 00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:18.674 But when you say, trust me, bro, it doesn't sound as convincing 00:46:18.674 --> 00:46:20.924 as, look at how I changed my life. 00:46:20.924 --> 00:46:24.764 And I, you know, I, I gave my sense, you know, you, you reword this differently 00:46:24.764 --> 00:46:26.834 to be very emotionally motivational. 00:46:27.494 --> 00:46:29.864 And I'm not saying that anecdote doesn't have value because 00:46:29.869 --> 00:46:31.844 anecdote does have value, but 00:46:32.594 --> 00:46:38.804 anecdote does have value when we don't have controlled research to guide our 00:46:38.804 --> 00:46:42.614 thoughts on a particular topic, when we have controlled research that has 00:46:42.614 --> 00:46:48.344 been repeated ad nauseum and shows things like a continuous isocaloric 00:46:48.344 --> 00:46:52.184 diet is the same or better than fasting. 00:46:53.684 --> 00:46:56.864 That suggests to us that maybe the benefits we think that we're getting 00:46:56.864 --> 00:47:00.284 from fasting are largely based on the calorie deficit itself, and 00:47:00.284 --> 00:47:02.774 maybe we're not getting as many benefits as we thought we were. 00:47:03.694 --> 00:47:04.114 Lindsay: mm-Hmm. 00:47:04.154 --> 00:47:09.344 Dr. Allan: If there is an absence of information in the research, then anecdote 00:47:09.344 --> 00:47:14.954 probably has a little bit more sway and it has more sway because the, even if it is 00:47:14.954 --> 00:47:17.324 placebo, that could give us some benefits. 00:47:17.714 --> 00:47:23.114 But if we have distinct indications that there are negatives to a practice 00:47:23.114 --> 00:47:26.414 that we're doing, whether it's eating full carnivore where we can say, 00:47:26.444 --> 00:47:29.264 there's a lot of research showing that fruits and veggies have a ton 00:47:29.264 --> 00:47:32.384 of health benefits, particularly long term, are you gonna lose fat? 00:47:32.444 --> 00:47:34.064 Are you gonna lose weight really quickly on carnivore? 00:47:34.064 --> 00:47:34.244 Yeah. 00:47:34.244 --> 00:47:35.954 The same reason that you lost it for fasting. 00:47:35.954 --> 00:47:38.714 You stop eating carbs, your muscle glycogen is tanked. 00:47:38.714 --> 00:47:43.274 Your, you know, all these other things happen with vegans. 00:47:43.724 --> 00:47:46.844 Well, well if you look at our research, you showed that cardiovascular health 00:47:46.844 --> 00:47:51.014 is much better and, and epidemiological studies and an associative data then 00:47:51.449 --> 00:47:52.079 eating meat? 00:47:52.139 --> 00:47:53.309 Well, yeah. 00:47:53.339 --> 00:47:54.569 'cause fruits and veggies are good. 00:47:54.569 --> 00:47:56.729 That doesn't mean that meats meat's bad. 00:47:57.089 --> 00:47:59.129 It means when you take your research and you compare it to a 00:47:59.134 --> 00:48:02.189 McDonald's diet, yeah, your veggies are better than a McDonald's diet. 00:48:03.029 --> 00:48:06.629 But when you actually look at the legit research that compares a smart omnivore 00:48:06.629 --> 00:48:08.399 diet, it's better than both of those. 00:48:08.634 --> 00:48:13.169 But that doesn't make a Netflix documentary because people don't want 00:48:13.169 --> 00:48:18.209 to see that they can eat chicken and fruits and veggies and whole grains. 00:48:18.569 --> 00:48:22.469 They want to see what's the trick that I haven't tried that will give me 00:48:22.469 --> 00:48:27.449 immediate, dramatic results, even if it isn't sustainable or even if it isn't 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:28.949 the right thing for health long term. 00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:32.459 But those things kind of go out the window because we want that feeling 00:48:32.459 --> 00:48:36.749 of being special and knowing a trick and being emotionally involved 00:48:36.754 --> 00:48:39.809 or, or part of a group that knows something that other people don't. 00:48:40.349 --> 00:48:47.262 And so your idea of this touch on an emotional aspect is extremely 00:48:47.262 --> 00:48:50.802 powerful, extremely relevant, and extremely unreliable. 00:48:51.297 --> 00:48:51.717 Lindsay: Mm-Hmm. 00:48:52.572 --> 00:48:53.022 It's true. 00:48:53.022 --> 00:48:57.222 And we, it, it, but it, it, I'm so glad you're saying this because this is 00:48:57.222 --> 00:49:02.262 something that over the past few days I've been thinking so much about and I, I 00:49:02.262 --> 00:49:11.112 had somebody tell me a story of why they believed they hadn't had any injuries. 00:49:11.892 --> 00:49:19.062 But they're like, well, I was doing this one workout by this other influencer, and 00:49:19.062 --> 00:49:24.942 then I changed to another influencer's workout and they had me stretching. 00:49:24.942 --> 00:49:29.322 And because I was stretching, I didn't have injuries for five years. 00:49:29.327 --> 00:49:31.362 And, and I'm like, but what else changed? 00:49:31.362 --> 00:49:39.162 One the way you were lifting with the former one and the exercise 00:49:39.162 --> 00:49:43.302 selection of now this new one were completely different, but did 00:49:43.302 --> 00:49:45.012 we take that into consideration? 00:49:45.432 --> 00:49:45.852 No. 00:49:46.032 --> 00:49:48.942 So we weren't doing these weird frog pumps anymore. 00:49:48.942 --> 00:49:53.082 Now we were going through movements that were working in 00:49:53.082 --> 00:49:55.032 the extreme more in and of itself. 00:49:55.037 --> 00:50:00.552 Those are showing to increase range of motion for movements to, 00:50:00.882 --> 00:50:05.442 well, I don't want to blow up any correlation between injury prevention. 00:50:05.442 --> 00:50:09.552 'cause really the only direct correlation that we're seeing, 00:50:09.552 --> 00:50:13.842 and correct me if, if you've seen something else, is, is really sleep. 00:50:14.292 --> 00:50:16.482 Like that is the main one. 00:50:16.707 --> 00:50:19.692 Dr. Allan: So I, I've done in-depth dives on this, 00:50:19.972 --> 00:50:24.082 I was actually laughing about this because it's a wonderful example and it's a 00:50:24.082 --> 00:50:28.372 wonderful example because if you look at every single systemic review on stretching 00:50:28.372 --> 00:50:31.432 there is, it doesn't reduce injury risk. 00:50:31.757 --> 00:50:31.977 It 00:50:32.407 --> 00:50:33.067 Lindsay: Thank you. 00:50:34.057 --> 00:50:34.477 Thank you. 00:50:34.492 --> 00:50:35.122 Dr. Allan: reduce injury risk. 00:50:35.422 --> 00:50:39.352 And I have, I have had so many people get super angry at me because I'm not 00:50:39.352 --> 00:50:43.912 saying stretching can have some value and that warming up doesn't have value. 00:50:43.912 --> 00:50:45.562 Warming up is fine, warming up is fine. 00:50:45.622 --> 00:50:46.702 It doesn't need to be stretching. 00:50:47.422 --> 00:50:50.452 Um, you could do dynamic stretches, you could do just the weight that you're 00:50:50.457 --> 00:50:53.962 gonna lift, the, the movement that you're gonna do, but lighter and then progress 00:50:53.962 --> 00:50:56.182 up stretching does not reduce injury risk. 00:50:56.392 --> 00:50:59.902 The number one thing that does reduce injury risk and stretching it, it might 00:50:59.932 --> 00:51:02.872 have a very small effect, but it's so small, it's statistically insignificant. 00:51:03.572 --> 00:51:07.712 The number one things that reduce injury, risk, weight, training, 00:51:08.582 --> 00:51:12.192 sleep, the way that you're feeling mentally and emotionally at the time. 00:51:13.242 --> 00:51:16.872 And it's not even form, form to an extent is important, but 00:51:17.322 --> 00:51:19.152 perfect form is a myth first off. 00:51:19.782 --> 00:51:23.322 But you don't need perfect form to get everything that 00:51:23.322 --> 00:51:24.552 you ever want out of fitness. 00:51:24.552 --> 00:51:25.572 You just need adequate form. 00:51:25.572 --> 00:51:29.892 So as long as you're not like completely doing, you know, asinine 00:51:29.892 --> 00:51:31.572 things, you're probably fine. 00:51:31.572 --> 00:51:37.272 Now the, the constant dynamic movements like a hundred box jumps in a row. 00:51:37.277 --> 00:51:37.422 Yeah. 00:51:37.422 --> 00:51:39.762 Dynamic movements have a very high injury risk. 00:51:39.792 --> 00:51:44.262 That's why team sports constant cutting back and forth, forth, you know, the, 00:51:44.427 --> 00:51:47.937 Lindsay: But isn't it because of the level of fatigue that's being incr, like 00:51:48.102 --> 00:51:49.422 Dr. Allan: neuromuscular fatigue. 00:51:49.902 --> 00:51:54.002 Um, and, and there's just a risk from repetitive dynamic movements 00:51:54.002 --> 00:51:57.062 can increase injury risk, which is why bodybuilding is the, the least 00:51:57.062 --> 00:51:59.042 dangerous thing of all time, because it's 00:51:59.212 --> 00:52:02.897 Lindsay: less so than yoga when I read that 00:52:02.972 --> 00:52:05.642 Dr. Allan: know if I've seen, I don't, I don't, I'm not aware of that data. 00:52:05.642 --> 00:52:09.482 I know that compared to like team sports, team sports are like 15 times more likely 00:52:09.482 --> 00:52:11.132 to give you an injury than bodybuilding 00:52:11.382 --> 00:52:11.802 Lindsay: Mm-Hmm. 00:52:12.197 --> 00:52:13.427 Running is more 00:52:13.427 --> 00:52:13.967 likely, 00:52:14.102 --> 00:52:14.522 Dr. Allan: yes. 00:52:15.062 --> 00:52:18.002 Um, so, so yeah, there's a ton of things that are far more 00:52:18.002 --> 00:52:18.932 important than stretching. 00:52:18.932 --> 00:52:21.152 I mean, sleep is a, is a significant one. 00:52:22.262 --> 00:52:25.772 It's, it's a very significant one for injury risk because if you're not mentally 00:52:25.772 --> 00:52:29.912 there during a lift and you get under load and, and you know, you mis groove. 00:52:30.722 --> 00:52:34.112 Now that is a little bit of a, of a form issue, but it's more because of 00:52:34.112 --> 00:52:36.632 the fact that you mentally aren't there. 00:52:37.172 --> 00:52:39.692 And that's one of the reasons that emotional status can play into injury 00:52:39.692 --> 00:52:43.142 risk because you're mentally not there and not, not really paying 00:52:43.142 --> 00:52:44.102 attention to what you're doing. 00:52:44.102 --> 00:52:46.292 But weight training is the number one thing that you 00:52:46.292 --> 00:52:47.612 can do to reduce injury risk. 00:52:47.972 --> 00:52:50.252 Bar none, and it's not even close. 00:52:50.567 --> 00:52:52.277 Lindsay: I love that you brought up form. 00:52:52.277 --> 00:52:57.077 I have a live in like one minute, but I just wanna touch on this one because 00:52:57.077 --> 00:53:00.947 I am one that people are like, Lindsay, but you say you have to have good form. 00:53:00.947 --> 00:53:02.929 And I say, no, no, no, no, no, no. 00:53:03.257 --> 00:53:10.157 I say that if you are trying to work a muscle, then we probably 00:53:10.157 --> 00:53:15.917 want to stay within the range that that muscle can contract, contract 00:53:15.917 --> 00:53:17.477 and contribute to the movement. 00:53:17.807 --> 00:53:23.417 But going a little bit outside of that range, as long as, and this is, this 00:53:23.422 --> 00:53:28.607 is kind of what we're seeing now, is as long as you have, progressively your 00:53:28.607 --> 00:53:37.277 body has worked up to that weight, you're not, you know, doing squats with minimal 00:53:37.277 --> 00:53:43.247 range, and then all of a sudden with the same amount of weight, you're going down 00:53:43.252 --> 00:53:45.887 and doing like, butt winking, squats. 00:53:46.272 --> 00:53:46.692 Squats. 00:53:46.697 --> 00:53:49.367 And then you're like, see, I injured myself because of the butt. 00:53:49.367 --> 00:53:49.517 Wait. 00:53:49.547 --> 00:53:50.087 No, no, no. 00:53:50.147 --> 00:53:55.427 You, you are now increasing your range of motion at a weight 00:53:55.427 --> 00:53:57.257 that you hadn't built up to. 00:53:57.356 --> 00:54:03.476 Dr. Allan: Your body is very adept at, um, being able to adjust to 00:54:03.536 --> 00:54:04.646 stressors that you put on it. 00:54:04.796 --> 00:54:08.126 But you have to progress up in that spinal flexion. 00:54:08.131 --> 00:54:11.276 When deadlifting, one of the best deadlifters of all time, has a lot 00:54:11.276 --> 00:54:15.056 of spinal flexion and he does not get injured, um, butt wink is really not 00:54:15.056 --> 00:54:18.296 that big of a deal for 99% of people, you know, all these things, they don't matter 00:54:18.476 --> 00:54:20.486 as long as you've progressed up slowly. 00:54:20.726 --> 00:54:23.276 The people that get injured are like you say, they all of a sudden do an 00:54:23.336 --> 00:54:24.746 what's essentially a different lift. 00:54:24.746 --> 00:54:24.956 If you're 00:54:25.101 --> 00:54:25.391 Lindsay: Yeah. 00:54:25.661 --> 00:54:25.951 Yeah. 00:54:26.036 --> 00:54:30.896 Dr. Allan: know, 75 degrees to like 180 degree squat, then 00:54:30.926 --> 00:54:32.801 you've created a different lift. 00:54:33.191 --> 00:54:37.271 If you are going from 225 pounds to 315 pounds and you've only ever 00:54:37.271 --> 00:54:40.211 lifted 235, you're gonna get injured. 00:54:40.241 --> 00:54:43.301 And that's why you see some of these injury rates in, in competitive strong 00:54:43.301 --> 00:54:45.191 men and competitive CrossFitters. 00:54:45.191 --> 00:54:49.751 Not that the sports themselves are inherently wrong, it's 00:54:49.756 --> 00:54:51.791 that these are people that are challenging their boundaries. 00:54:51.881 --> 00:54:54.101 And when you go outside of your boundaries, yeah, you're gonna 00:54:54.101 --> 00:54:55.661 be at a much higher rate of risk. 00:54:56.021 --> 00:55:00.791 So if you don't progress things up slowly and gradually, you're going 00:55:00.796 --> 00:55:02.681 to greatly increase your injury risk. 00:55:02.771 --> 00:55:03.041 Lindsay: Hmm. 00:55:03.761 --> 00:55:04.121 Love it. 00:55:04.151 --> 00:55:06.011 Okay, we're gonna have to end with that. 00:55:06.011 --> 00:55:08.381 Thank you so much for coming on. 00:55:08.381 --> 00:55:10.691 I'm gonna have you on here in the near future again. 00:55:10.691 --> 00:55:14.231 We can continue to talk about all the good things. 00:55:14.441 --> 00:55:16.121 I feel like we're just getting started. 00:55:16.601 --> 00:55:18.551 Dr. Allan: There's a lot to talk about, but thank you so 00:55:18.551 --> 00:55:19.451 much for having me, Lindsay. 00:55:19.451 --> 00:55:21.821 Thank you everybody for listening and if you want to reach out at 00:55:21.821 --> 00:55:24.851 any time, um, certainly send me a message on Instagram and I'm happy 00:55:24.856 --> 00:55:25.841 to answer any questions people 00:55:25.841 --> 00:55:30.561 Lindsay: Oh, I, I'll also put in the show notes where to find you on Instagram. 00:55:30.951 --> 00:55:32.601 Do you do one-on-one Coaching? 00:55:32.631 --> 00:55:33.291 How, 00:55:34.116 --> 00:55:37.356 Dr. Allan: Yeah, I, I do all exclusively online coaching, and you can look up 00:55:37.361 --> 00:55:39.286 any information at mauiathletics.com. 00:55:39.801 --> 00:55:40.041 Lindsay: Okay. 00:55:40.081 --> 00:55:42.361 We'll include a link to your site as well. 00:55:42.366 --> 00:55:43.201 Thank you so much. 00:55:43.201 --> 00:55:44.821 You've been, you've been amazing. 00:55:44.821 --> 00:55:45.841 I've loved having you on. 00:55:46.246 --> 00:55:46.486 Dr. Allan: All right. 00:55:46.486 --> 00:55:46.966 Thank you, Lindsay. 00:55:46.966 --> 00:55:47.566 I appreciate it. 00:55:47.851 --> 00:55:48.091 Lindsay: okay. 00:55:48.091 --> 00:55:48.991 We'll talk to you later. 00:55:49.126 --> 00:55:49.456 Dr. Allan: care.