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We try our best to prepare for the whirlwind of difficulties we face throughout our life.

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From daily setbacks to long-term illness, we do what we can to make the bad days a little
less difficult.

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We're talking to Shemani's mom on a daily basis, multiple times.

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So as soon as, you know, Shemani told her like, listen, I'm having shortness of breath,
it's hard to talk, woke up, her mom was like, these are signs of having a pulmonary

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embolism.

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When preparedness meets the blunt and sudden nature of the unexpected, we do our best to
accommodate and accept this new path we're focused to navigate.

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Though many acclimate through resilience and the acceptance of what is, how do we find
hope along the seemingly hopeless path?

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Even though you know we were also well informed we went with the information get by you
know the.

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I just probably needs to rest probably overwork.

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They said they can't really you know about her they need to and again like I said you know
13 days later.

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ended up passing away from a pulmonary embolism.

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Every six minutes, somebody in America dies of a blood clot.

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We're here to change that statistic.

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Welcome to Taking a Breath, a stop the clot podcast.

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An award-winning podcast dedicated to bringing awareness of the dangers of blood clots
from the clotting disorders community to the world.

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With the help of many notable blood clot survivors, we are here to give you the knowledge
and the skills you need to prevent this silent killer.

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My name is Leslie Lake.

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I am the president of the National Blood Clot Alliance and I am a blood clot survivor.

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and my name is Todd Robertson.

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I am the patient engagement liaison for the National Blood Clot Alliance and I am a seven
time blood clot survivor.

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And we're here to stop the clot.

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Navigating tragedy is one of life's most difficult endeavors.

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The shifting from a reality you loved and knew so well into a world you never wished to be
a part of creates a numbing dissonance that many of us, unfortunately, know all too well.

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Today, we are joined by someone whose courage and tenacity in the face of loss is nothing
short of inspiring.

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Our guest today is a father, partner, artist, activist,

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and co-founder of the Area Foundation.

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Here to discuss the life and legacy of his partner, Shamani Gibson, please join me in
welcoming the wonderful Omari Maynard.

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My name is Omari Maynard.

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I am the father of Uriah, Anari, and Kari, and I am the son of Dolores and Elton, the
co-founder of the ARIA Foundation.

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ARIA stands for the Advancement of Reproductive Innovation through Artistry and Hair Loss.

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And I'm just thankful to be here.

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Thank you for the to just be vulnerable with you all and, you know, try to create.

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where these type of conversations happen more often so that, you know, just as a community
we're all better informed and understanding that everybody's going through something.

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So everybody's got to be able to be willing to share their experience to help the next
person.

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So, thankful to be here.

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Armani is an amazing, amazing woman.

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very, man, she was very, she could be a stubborn woman as well.

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Our relationship was, it was, I always say that he was one of the few people where I
remember.

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the exact moment when I saw her.

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We both worked at the athletic league, worked at different sites.

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I was in Brooklyn site, but she was at a different Brooklyn site.

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But we all had to get together for training in Harlem.

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While we were at the training, but then maybe the f-

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second day at the training I saw her walking across the gym and I was in the because I was
like, my god.

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the heck is that?

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She's beautiful.

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And then that was pretty much it.

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Maybe about a year later, I ended up actually getting transferred to her side.

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And that's when.

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actually, you know, built a friendship first, you know, and just started kind of
connecting that way.

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I don't remember moments like that, you know, often uh just in respect to life.

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You know so as far as our relationship goes our relationship was like many other people
you know.

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And it was amazing definitely had that honeymoon phase where we you know couldn't get
enough of each other she's super funny very witty fiery you know said was on the mind, but

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she was also very guarded just dealing with you know.

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You know she just that we have in the grow up you know.

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Always forthcoming.

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with affection with

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letting people that you know, but she let me and you know, and I always appreciated that.

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And you know like many young knucklehead man I knew what I had you know and enjoyed what I
had but also felt like I needed something.

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So how did.

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So we ended up breaking up and as soon as we did that I was like this is not where I want
to be.

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And you know, we ended up getting back together.

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Actually, it was very funny.

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During that time, I ended up leaving.

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He ended up leaving.

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And then.

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I got a job with the Harlem Children's Zone and so

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Very likely that I would be seeing anybody from.

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Brooklyn in that type of situation that can root.

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But I up going to Michael's one day with my son and I was walking to Michael's.

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I it was like near Central Park.

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she was coming down the block the other way, know, and she just so happened to leave
police athletically and get in a job.

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Which was going to see, you know, that kind of part that rekindled our connection and,
know, ever since then, it.

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like, we locked in.

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And that's exactly what it was.

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know, we were locked in and this time around, want to say like it was April dating and
April.

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of 2016.

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again and I want to she you know and you know it was really quick and in hindsight I'm
extremely thankful for you know the way we played out but you know we really had to grow

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up

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relationship really fast and a lot of things that I had to give up as a true father.

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having to give up the things that Ari wanted to do, know, it felt like he should do in
addition to having

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really ship and building a family.

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but just in retro, had to shift and didn't know how to do that shift.

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And she was always pushing that shift and it was like, man, we would bump heads.

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We wanted the same thing, but we wanted to do them differently.

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And it took a lot of time trying to kind of figure out that balance, being in this
relationship while making sure that she's covered.

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and making sure that our child was brought to this earth safely.

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Shemani was, she was a dancer.

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She danced.

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that she got the scholarship to go to LaGuardia and she ended up getting a college
scholarship to Temple.

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But you know that wasn't the path that she wanted to do.

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funny, she was funny, super witty, athletic, smart, just really thoughtful, thought about
people all the time, and just created space for everybody.

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Just her energy, it was infectious, know, she made sure that, you know, she gave people

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to be them, but also, you know, just to just light up a room and just, you her presence.

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Yeah.

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I'll rewind a little bit to talk about Inari's introduction to life first.

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being introduced to this new family, right?

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And, you know, we got Shemean Shemani and learning who she was as a person and, more
important.

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for this conversation learning about her family and her background especially.

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you know, her mom, Shawnee, know, Shawnee's been in this maternal health space.

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She's done a lot of work around reproductive justice, reproductive health, talking about
trauma, grief, all the things that come with conversations that don't necessarily happen,

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like conversations around having a conference called the Motherwick to introduce
conversations around stillbirth and miscarriages and releasing pregnancy, you know.

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things that are kind of taboo to talk about in community.

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But, you know, she created that space and Shemani grew up.

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that space, you know, so she has a high level understanding of what is needed in terms of
community, to the world and signs, all that great stuff.

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With Anari, we had team of duelers going through the gestation process.

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But we ended up having Anari uh and even though we had a team of midwives, which was great
because people don't usually have an opportunity, what we found out was that we needed

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somebody um

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With midwives, anybody who's helping you in that type of capacity, you grow attached to
them, you know?

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So like the team concept wasn't really good for us because we were expecting to see
somebody when we go in for business and be somebody.

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We were expecting somebody in the living room who wasn't necessarily there to be somebody
else or.

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So it was great and it was very important because we had information, we had informed the
team through the process.

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We knew that the second time around.

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We wanted just one midwife and one doula.

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And we wanted to have an ass.

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uh

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did not have a great experience at the hospital that we gave birth to an Aryan.

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So now we knew we wanted to have another child or multiple children.

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Kari wasn't the most planned pregnancy that I've been a part of, but it wasn't necessarily
planned.

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So when we found out that she was pregnant again, it was like, snap, are you serious?

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But it was like, all right, this is great.

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know, round two, we're doing it again.

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And at that point as a partner, as a parent, I was just way more.

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informed and excited about this around a third time around for me the second time around
for us.

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because you know I knew what the expectations were and I'm creating this family unit it
was we were locked in you know.

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It up getting the midwife she was great so we had a one midwife and to me that I want our
one doula and the midwife organization that would use this like.

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right off the block from me.

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We go on for visits, I went to every visit, went to every OBGYN visit, went to every
midwife visit, and when we went, stool a visit, and when we went, was a group of other

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families as well.

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So yeah.

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opportunity to share our experiences with other families who are going through the same
thing as we were ourselves.

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She was healthy, she was ready.

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know, we were walking, she was working out.

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We had a better.

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m

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things that we needed this time around.

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So you were well informed and ready.

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We wanted to try to have a natural.

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feedback, which is a vaginal birth after C-section with carring.

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And that was the plan, you know, we had our birthing plan, had a team so we just

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to execute and.

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one night her water broke and so we had set up the house, set up the pool in the house,
called doula, called our midwife.

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When Shemani's water breaks, know, we wait, counting the contractions.

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After a while, instead of the contractions.

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closer together, they started to get further apart or just kind of stagnant and uh

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The midwife came, she came to the house for a couple of minutes and she was just like, you
know what, just hold tight, but if they get worse, we're gonna have to, or if nothing

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happens, if the contractions.

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get closer together we're going to have to go to the hospital.

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Purchase on hospitals we wanted to go to a hospital percentage of c-sections for birthing
so

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We ended up having to do that and we went, but still, know, our do was present and you
know, we were hoping for the best, you know, and I think more than anything in that whole

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process for anybody who's given birth, right?

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We all have a plan.

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all, well, I shouldn't say we all have a plan.

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We all have something in mind of expectations of what this is supposed to look like and
supposed to be.

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Right.

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And sometimes that doesn't always work out.

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You know, and I think what that said, the most important thing is that you are able to

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bring a healthy baby a healthy right and if that happens

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the plan has been executed.

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So, you know, we go to the hospital and we wait and the thing is, that

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with hospitals, unfortunately.

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they don't always give you the time that you need because birthing is birthing.

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know, some women, bing bang boom, 30 minutes, they in and out, you know.

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And others, know, it's bing bang, boom, boom, boom, ting ting ting.

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The baby comes on its own time.

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And unfortunately, like I said, hospitals, they don't give you that, they don't afford you
that ability.

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When they got people coming in and out all the time, you know, so they waited as long as
they could.

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And, you know, we eventually had

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get a c-section so

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was like, all right, you know, it's not what the plan was, but Shemani's

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It's time for the baby to come, so let's do it.

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we ended up having to get a C-section.

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But the thing is, is that we didn't really have any relationship.

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with the doctors.

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there because we were planning on having a home birth.

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Amen.

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Couldn't tell you his name couldn't pick him out.

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up if he asks me to.

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thing is is that Shemani, she had webbing, which is scarred on the uterine lining from our
previous C-section.

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So when it was time for her to cut Kari, well, it time for the doctor to

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are open to bring Kari through.

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It just took a little bit longer than usual and then car

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out, the doctor decided get some Shemani's fibroids out as well.

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And at the time I thought, hey, you know, it's great.

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And, know, two for one, you know, if we want to have another child, you know, there won't
be any blockage or they'll, you know, be less likely to have a different type of outcome

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for pregnancy because of.

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But in hindsight, I learned that, you know, this is a whole separate surgery.

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Fibroids are living part of your body that if cut or cut improperly, you know, massive
bleeding.

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I think honestly, that was kind of beginning of

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of her demise

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She was already open for too long trying to get through the scar.

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tissue and then again having uh more more air to get in.

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instead of sewing her up for some reason they ended up, know, she ended up passing away 13
days later due to uh blood cuts and her going.

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cardiac arrest.

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She ended up passing away from a pulmonary embolism.

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But between those 13 days, because again, our family is well informed, we know what the
signs and symptoms are, you we're talking to Shemani's mom on a daily basis.

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So as soon as Shemani told her, listen, I'm having shortness of breath, it's hard for me
to talk to her.

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Woke up the steps, her mom was like, this is, these are signs of having a pulmonary
embolism.

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And because, you know, her mom is so active in the community, we knew the head of the
maternity ward at

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that we gave birth that.

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we're able to call them on the cell phone and say, this is what's going on, this is what's
happening.

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Even though we were also well informed, went with the information.

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She just probably needs to rest, she's probably overworked.

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themselves, probably doing too much.

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So just have her lay down and just cover her.

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that's exactly what But in hindsight, class moving through your body, it creates space for
them to move faster and be more aggressive.

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but also between that time we were also going back.

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to the hospital and telling the doctors exactly what was going on and what should we do.

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And every time we went because it wasn't Shaman.

210
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Um, they said they can't really.

211
00:17:32,278 --> 00:17:35,230
And again, like I said, you know, 13 days later.

212
00:17:35,230 --> 00:17:37,410
ended up passing away from a pulmonary

213
00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:41,950
was I know that the silver lining for me.

214
00:17:42,290 --> 00:17:43,870
During that time.

215
00:17:43,870 --> 00:17:51,310
She might as well was like listen, you know, we're going to listen to the doctor so what
we're going to do is we're to have family come over that friends come over keep our

216
00:17:51,310 --> 00:17:55,150
company, you know clean up the house bring food or that great.

217
00:17:55,850 --> 00:17:58,690
You know, so those final those last couple of days.

218
00:17:59,070 --> 00:18:05,890
A best friend came over and we chopped it up, you know she brought us food and and hanging
out and have.

219
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:06,833
She monies.

220
00:18:06,833 --> 00:18:11,509
was there as well and then the second day or the day ended up functioning.

221
00:18:11,509 --> 00:18:13,104
or going into cardiac arrest.

222
00:18:13,104 --> 00:18:16,936
Her god sister was at the house, her mom was at the house.

223
00:18:16,982 --> 00:18:19,114
and her aunt was at the house, you know, so.

224
00:18:19,114 --> 00:18:20,254
oh

225
00:18:20,254 --> 00:18:24,046
we were all laughing, talking, having fun, you know, and then she reminds me.

226
00:18:24,046 --> 00:18:26,526
listen, man, like my chest really hurts.

227
00:18:26,986 --> 00:18:28,086
to the hospital.

228
00:18:28,086 --> 00:18:29,386
as a...

229
00:18:29,386 --> 00:18:35,106
That's when she ended up going into cardiac arrest in the house, you know, and I...

230
00:18:35,106 --> 00:18:36,503
Say that...

231
00:18:36,503 --> 00:18:44,517
If I was in the house by myself, you know 2 babies, you know my partner I don't know if
I'd be sitting here with you all today.

232
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:46,260
I don't know what I would.

233
00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:48,843
would have done if I was by myself.

234
00:18:48,843 --> 00:18:52,765
And you know having this conversation with Sean is she also said the same?

235
00:18:53,286 --> 00:19:05,426
So thankful to me to be with my daughter on her last days I don't know what I would do if
I got a phone call from telling me that this is what And you need to get down here as fast

236
00:19:05,426 --> 00:19:17,441
as you can and you know having that situation occur It's funny because I was having this
exact conversation the other day about how I've changed I'm not the same oh

237
00:19:17,441 --> 00:19:18,763
that I was.

238
00:19:18,820 --> 00:19:21,484
in many capacities and aspects.

239
00:19:21,484 --> 00:19:25,062
my life and um

240
00:19:25,888 --> 00:19:30,183
I'm just so glad that I had an opportunity to have these moments.

241
00:19:30,424 --> 00:19:34,709
like, months before she passed away, we were...

242
00:19:34,976 --> 00:19:37,376
arguing arguing about something I don't

243
00:19:37,442 --> 00:19:49,082
whatever you know couples about and with us we go to sleep and I wake up in the morning
and I'm looking in.

244
00:19:49,082 --> 00:19:54,739
And just you know just captivated and I'm thinking like in my mind I was.

245
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,545
This is where I want to be there's no other.

246
00:19:57,545 --> 00:19:59,389
that I want to be.

247
00:19:59,389 --> 00:20:02,198
I would want to live.

248
00:20:04,395 --> 00:20:07,808
you know, months later she passes away, you know, and...

249
00:20:11,048 --> 00:20:12,690
huh, man.

250
00:20:14,133 --> 00:20:18,982
I remember walking out the hospital and the sun was shining and my dad was next.

251
00:20:18,982 --> 00:20:25,006
It was my dad and my friend, you know, they're walking on walking out.

252
00:20:26,109 --> 00:20:27,291
I will never be the.

253
00:20:27,291 --> 00:20:31,185
same person, like this is going to forever shift and change.

254
00:20:31,436 --> 00:20:34,624
And I think about other men who have gone through.

255
00:20:34,624 --> 00:20:36,891
loss and suffered loss in a similar fashion.

256
00:20:36,891 --> 00:20:38,414
It's very different.

257
00:20:38,414 --> 00:20:42,115
Because I lost my grandmother pretty much a year to the day.

258
00:20:42,596 --> 00:20:46,314
Losing Shemani and my grandmother is 92.

259
00:20:46,798 --> 00:20:48,438
And I thought she would live forever.

260
00:20:48,438 --> 00:20:50,289
Just an amazing person.

261
00:20:50,289 --> 00:20:52,820
And I miss her and think about her often.

262
00:20:52,820 --> 00:21:04,885
But I bring that up because it's a totally different experience when somebody who you have
an opportunity to meet and grow this whole new experience and have these life shifting and

263
00:21:04,885 --> 00:21:07,062
life changing experience with.

264
00:21:07,062 --> 00:21:20,846
in conjunction with with them and you know they suddenly are not here anymore in addition
to now reason is this new life that you have this plan that you're going to be doing

265
00:21:20,846 --> 00:21:22,622
together and.

266
00:21:23,347 --> 00:21:35,284
Plan is out the window and so I'm just thankful for community, I'm thankful for all the
covering that I got the reason that.

267
00:21:35,284 --> 00:21:39,955
I was able to be an advocate the reason why I was able to.

268
00:21:40,476 --> 00:21:48,338
My life that had to quit teaching had to do a lot of different things was the only way I
was able to do is because of community.

269
00:21:48,338 --> 00:21:53,859
I was covered in a way that I know of them people don't have the opportunity to be
covered.

270
00:21:53,999 --> 00:22:03,352
I was getting phone calls text messages people were showing up with gift cards to push on
up with diapers and pamper had a press for like a year.

271
00:22:03,352 --> 00:22:13,965
being covered by community and like I said, the knowing that, know, the go from me that we
had the diapers, the wipes, the phone calls are still all coming in the mill trains, you

272
00:22:13,965 --> 00:22:15,865
know, so there were some things that I didn't have.

273
00:22:15,865 --> 00:22:21,287
uh You know, and then lastly, having the opportunity to be covered by my job.

274
00:22:21,287 --> 00:22:31,100
And in addition to having COVID, I was able to be home, you know, and that gave me an
opportunity to plan and figure things out and really sit with myself, really sit with my

275
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:32,756
brief, really sit with my trauma.

276
00:22:32,756 --> 00:22:34,094
and figure out.

277
00:22:34,094 --> 00:22:39,818
how I was going to have to shift in creating this new life for myself and my family.

278
00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:43,001
You know, I'm an artist, Shemani's an artist.

279
00:22:43,001 --> 00:22:49,206
I was teaching at the time, but like two years, three years prior, we started a business
called Art for Living.

280
00:22:49,206 --> 00:22:54,620
And Art for Living is basically a lifestyle brand where we would use art and artistic
modalities to create community.

281
00:22:54,620 --> 00:23:00,834
So we would do sipping paints, we would do t-shirt making, we would do glass etching, we
would do...

282
00:23:00,898 --> 00:23:07,681
wood carving, would do speed dating, we would do anything that you could think of to be
able to create community.

283
00:23:07,682 --> 00:23:19,358
And that showed me one that we both could use art as a way to express ourselves, but as a
way to also create income, generate income and build this business together, which also

284
00:23:19,358 --> 00:23:22,790
created a different avenue for our relationship to grow as well.

285
00:23:27,052 --> 00:23:33,588
Wow, I'm like crying and laughing and all kinds of different emotions listening to this.

286
00:23:33,588 --> 00:23:35,730
mean, it's incredible.

287
00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:40,443
You touched on something earlier about pulmonary embolism and we're the National Blood
Clot Alliance.

288
00:23:40,443 --> 00:23:48,741
So obviously we're talking about blood clots, but there's something bigger here, which is
maternal health and in particular black maternal health.

289
00:23:48,741 --> 00:23:55,596
And so talk to us about kind of what I perceive to be the forgotten group of people, which
are.

290
00:23:55,618 --> 00:23:59,020
the men and the fathers that are actually impacted by this.

291
00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:00,751
Because we don't talk a lot about this.

292
00:24:00,751 --> 00:24:09,796
And so, in your words, in your mind, in your feelings, what role can men play in this
maternal health advocacy?

293
00:24:09,796 --> 00:24:16,329
I don't think people realize how serious this is in our country, a country that has so
much.

294
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:19,691
And yet this is happening at our doorstep.

295
00:24:19,691 --> 00:24:21,802
So what role can men play?

296
00:24:21,802 --> 00:24:24,954
Because it can't be just women out there saying,

297
00:24:25,038 --> 00:24:30,506
This is a problem like everybody's got to be buying into this, that this is a big issue
here.

298
00:24:30,594 --> 00:24:31,246
Yeah.

299
00:24:31,246 --> 00:24:31,866
Definitely.

300
00:24:31,866 --> 00:24:33,906
It's it's a huge issue.

301
00:24:35,126 --> 00:24:41,506
And unfortunately, like I think that talking about it is taboo.

302
00:24:41,506 --> 00:24:50,486
Like black and brown women, indigenous women are three to four times more likely to pass
away due to internal health complications than...

303
00:24:50,486 --> 00:24:57,782
And the numbers show roughly 800 to 900 women a year, you know, and those are the ones...

304
00:24:57,782 --> 00:24:59,010
that are documented.

305
00:24:59,010 --> 00:25:02,712
But this bigger conversation is maternal morbidity.

306
00:25:02,712 --> 00:25:07,255
Like maternal morbidity is, you we start to 10x that number.

307
00:25:07,255 --> 00:25:18,071
So it's hundreds of thousands of women who are suffering these near death experiences and
now have these traumatic experiences.

308
00:25:18,071 --> 00:25:21,302
And Shemani was one of those people with our first baby.

309
00:25:21,302 --> 00:25:28,334
But because, you know, I think C-sections and just giving birth in hospitals and kind of
just having this one cookie cutter model.

310
00:25:28,334 --> 00:25:30,774
is so prevalent in our community.

311
00:25:30,774 --> 00:25:35,314
We don't even think about the trauma that comes with it if it does not go right.

312
00:25:35,314 --> 00:25:39,354
For the mother and also for the birthing partner, right?

313
00:25:39,354 --> 00:25:50,014
Because the birthing partner also is traumatized, but also has to be there for their
partner who is dealing with the traumatic situation as well.

314
00:25:50,014 --> 00:25:58,222
I think that, well, I know that it's so commonplace that people don't really understand
the

315
00:25:58,222 --> 00:26:00,772
power of their own stories, right?

316
00:26:00,772 --> 00:26:12,106
And their power of being able to share those stories so that other people can resonate
with them and then can get together or create other opportunities for, you know, bigger

317
00:26:12,106 --> 00:26:16,907
conversations to happen, which is how do we change the medical model, right?

318
00:26:16,968 --> 00:26:18,228
And so that's one.

319
00:26:18,228 --> 00:26:23,650
One is, you know, just people just don't feel like it's that serious, I guess.

320
00:26:23,650 --> 00:26:25,546
But I think that from

321
00:26:25,546 --> 00:26:37,549
a partner standpoint, which is, like I said, we don't really talk about it when you're,
especially this very, like I said it earlier, it's very special, different circumstance

322
00:26:37,549 --> 00:26:42,291
when you lose somebody and you're bringing new life into the world.

323
00:26:42,291 --> 00:26:52,429
And now as a man, the plan goes out the window and you don't necessarily know how to deal
and handle.

324
00:26:52,429 --> 00:26:54,734
I think on top of that,

325
00:26:54,734 --> 00:26:57,574
you feel like kind of the only person who's going through this.

326
00:26:57,574 --> 00:27:01,194
Well, there's not really too many people you can talk to about it.

327
00:27:01,194 --> 00:27:12,294
Wholeheartedly, we as men don't give ourselves enough opportunities to create space where
we can be as expressive as we need to be.

328
00:27:12,294 --> 00:27:17,814
Sometimes it sucks, this is hard, and that is it.

329
00:27:17,814 --> 00:27:19,490
There is no...

330
00:27:19,490 --> 00:27:30,354
Gambit right there is no real space where it's like I'm dealing with this this this this
and that I don't know how to do this this this and that and Not necessarily even trying to

331
00:27:30,354 --> 00:27:40,689
find answers for it, but just saying the thing out loud You know where now you have an
opportunity to honor that and more Things you know because it's extremely valid and then

332
00:27:40,689 --> 00:27:48,812
you know figure out how to shift and I know that for me really changed my life because I
Didn't have to carry that burden

333
00:27:48,812 --> 00:27:56,576
by myself, I didn't have to sugarcoat those feelings because I knew that they would be
honored and protected.

334
00:27:56,576 --> 00:28:03,170
And I knew that I could get, if not answers, at least empathy from other men.

335
00:28:03,170 --> 00:28:08,613
And I wanted to make sure that I passed that on because I knew that that was a special
thing.

336
00:28:08,613 --> 00:28:18,518
So fast forward about six months later, Amber Isaac Rose ends up passing away and her
partner, Bruce McIntyre,

337
00:28:18,606 --> 00:28:25,646
was left with this baby and was an amazing child and also lost his partner.

338
00:28:25,646 --> 00:28:28,086
I wanted to make it happen.

339
00:28:28,086 --> 00:28:30,206
I afforded him the same opportunity.

340
00:28:30,766 --> 00:28:37,326
I called him and we talked and we talked and me and him have a very special bond to this
day.

341
00:28:38,326 --> 00:28:43,866
having that, being able to do that, I knew that there was a need for it.

342
00:28:43,866 --> 00:28:46,902
It was just kind of a matter of

343
00:28:46,902 --> 00:28:50,243
If you don't see it, then you gotta build it.

344
00:28:50,383 --> 00:29:04,427
With our foundation, we started a subset called the Luxor Collective where we meet
virtually every other Thursday and I invite men who have suffered from trauma and loss and

345
00:29:04,427 --> 00:29:11,029
grief through the medical system to sit and just have conversations about life.

346
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:16,406
We've been doing it for the last two or three years now and it's shifted from

347
00:29:16,406 --> 00:29:25,391
just from that to in addition to creating space for men to just talk to other men, other
black men specifically, to talk to other men.

348
00:29:25,391 --> 00:29:36,487
Because we harbor so much grief and trauma of just being black and American and don't
really have space where we can have those conversations with how do we honor our feelings?

349
00:29:36,487 --> 00:29:37,508
How do we grow from them?

350
00:29:37,508 --> 00:29:38,478
How do we use them?

351
00:29:38,478 --> 00:29:39,649
How do we utilize them?

352
00:29:39,649 --> 00:29:42,141
How do we impart our wisdom on other people?

353
00:29:42,141 --> 00:29:45,162
How do we just say the things that

354
00:29:45,664 --> 00:29:52,958
are on people's mind, but you don't even know because there was no space to have that
conversation in the first place.

355
00:29:53,058 --> 00:30:00,012
In doing that, you see like, and it becomes heavy sometimes, but you see like the...

356
00:30:02,274 --> 00:30:07,137
You don't know what you need until you get it sometimes.

357
00:30:07,317 --> 00:30:13,812
And you see the need for me specifically, I could talk about myself, but I could also talk
about the men who's in the space.

358
00:30:13,812 --> 00:30:21,407
The need to just consistently work through your emotions because we're dealing with so
much as a society every day.

359
00:30:21,407 --> 00:30:25,390
We don't realize how heavy the world can be on us.

360
00:30:25,390 --> 00:30:31,934
It just takes an hour, an hour and a half sometimes to just sit with your feelings and sit
with others and just talk.

361
00:30:31,934 --> 00:30:46,328
or just listen, but giving you the fuel to be able to learn how to navigate and just grow
as an individual on a daily, weekly, monthly basis to create better situations for

362
00:30:46,328 --> 00:30:49,511
yourself, for your family, and then ultimately community.

363
00:30:49,751 --> 00:30:52,440
It's a really powerful thing, and it's a beautiful thing.

364
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:53,252
thing.

365
00:30:53,258 --> 00:30:57,199
a beautiful thing and you're creating something very, very special.

366
00:30:57,380 --> 00:31:03,902
How do you want medical professionals to better understand patient care for black women in
particular?

367
00:31:03,902 --> 00:31:06,283
You've created this group, this community.

368
00:31:06,283 --> 00:31:11,165
You've lived something that most people haven't and never will.

369
00:31:11,185 --> 00:31:13,866
What do want these medical professionals to know?

370
00:31:15,438 --> 00:31:28,224
ah So, and I'm gonna say this, but I also just wanna preface it first, because I spoke
about it, touched on it earlier a little bit, you know, with our midwife and our doula.

371
00:31:28,224 --> 00:31:33,146
And I know this is true for the medical community as well, right?

372
00:31:33,146 --> 00:31:43,050
For doctors, nurses, medical professionals, doctors particularly, you know, they're held
in high regard, but it's not what it used to be.

373
00:31:43,094 --> 00:31:45,116
And a lot of them are just overworked.

374
00:31:45,116 --> 00:31:50,519
A lot of them are overworked, understaffed, doing doubles, doing triples.

375
00:31:50,519 --> 00:31:52,511
And it takes a toll on the body.

376
00:31:52,511 --> 00:31:54,362
takes a toll on the mental.

377
00:31:54,362 --> 00:32:01,607
And it takes a toll on your emotional capacity to be empathetic and sympathetic sometimes.

378
00:32:01,607 --> 00:32:11,854
And when that happens, and the concern is, what do I need to do so that I can sustain
myself?

379
00:32:12,352 --> 00:32:28,716
sometimes over arches what does my patient need in order for them to get what they came
here for so that we don't have to have this situation reoccurring.

380
00:32:28,897 --> 00:32:36,664
And sometimes when that happens, a good passion for anybody, it just kind of falls to the
wayside sometimes.

381
00:32:36,684 --> 00:32:38,998
So I would say that one, I...

382
00:32:38,998 --> 00:32:42,880
understand the plight, but this is also something that you signed up for, right?

383
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:53,284
And it's important that when people come in for care, regardless of whether they have
private insurance or Medicaid or Medicare or no insurance at all, or is dealing with

384
00:32:53,284 --> 00:33:05,629
psychological issues or physical issues or disabilities, we all need and deserve the
proper care for us to be able to be productive members of the society.

385
00:33:05,629 --> 00:33:08,354
That doesn't happen all the time because

386
00:33:08,354 --> 00:33:12,797
There is stigmas that come with who is deserving and who isn't.

387
00:33:12,878 --> 00:33:23,046
With the medical community, just medical history in general, Black and Brown people have
always not given the things that they need when it comes to maternal healthcare, know,

388
00:33:23,046 --> 00:33:29,712
pushing midwives and granny midwives and doulas out the door because they don't have
accreditation.

389
00:33:29,712 --> 00:33:37,922
And then bringing in this medical model so that we can birth, you know, it creates a space
of cultural disconnect.

390
00:33:37,922 --> 00:33:50,568
And when we're compounding on that with all the other things that we're dealing with in
the medical system, it just creates situations like that I've been in and many other men

391
00:33:50,568 --> 00:33:52,650
and women and families I've been in.

392
00:33:52,650 --> 00:34:01,674
I would say that one, it's important to just step back and just have compassion, but also
two, it's important to...

393
00:34:01,716 --> 00:34:03,507
ask for help and guidance.

394
00:34:03,507 --> 00:34:14,742
know that when we talk about birthing specifically, midwives and doulas, they're part of
every system except the United States, And it's working in so many different places.

395
00:34:14,742 --> 00:34:22,435
There are so many different examples of what it looks like and how it's beneficial for
everybody that's partaking in it.

396
00:34:22,435 --> 00:34:24,466
But it's not a model that we're using here.

397
00:34:24,466 --> 00:34:27,886
And I pray that with this...

398
00:34:27,886 --> 00:34:39,286
pushing or with maternal health being a hot button topic over the last couple of years
that birthing options and birthing teams become more prevalent.

399
00:34:39,486 --> 00:34:52,386
So having a midwife and a doula and a nurse and a doctor and a lactation consultant and a
therapist working in conjunction to help create better systems for us, I pray that that

400
00:34:52,386 --> 00:34:53,486
comes about.

401
00:34:53,486 --> 00:34:56,994
And in addition to your question earlier, how do you

402
00:34:56,994 --> 00:35:09,372
bring in fathers into the fold so that they are not only informed but acknowledged, you
know, and creating systems where paternal health is also as important, right?

403
00:35:09,372 --> 00:35:20,600
Where you have this curriculum for fathers to take care of themselves and their partner
and their newborn once they come, specifically during postpartum, because postpartum is

404
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,351
where we're losing most of our women.

405
00:35:22,351 --> 00:35:24,243
It's it's imperative.

406
00:35:24,243 --> 00:35:26,338
It has to happen in order for us to

407
00:35:26,338 --> 00:35:29,100
really create the shift that we all want to see.

408
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:30,193
Yeah, I think you're right.

409
00:35:30,193 --> 00:35:30,864
is imperative.

410
00:35:30,864 --> 00:35:34,292
It needs to be included and there's just not enough conversation about it.

411
00:35:34,466 --> 00:35:35,832
Yes, definitely.

412
00:35:35,832 --> 00:35:46,058
Talk to us about Aftershock, how that came to be, what it was, how it's influenced you,
how people can learn more about it, because it is a very powerful, powerful thing.

413
00:35:46,158 --> 00:35:47,578
Yes, thank you.

414
00:35:48,078 --> 00:35:51,638
So Aftershock, if you have not seen Aftershock, go check out Aftershock.

415
00:35:51,638 --> 00:35:54,758
It is streaming on Hulu right now.

416
00:35:54,758 --> 00:35:56,438
And it's a beautiful documentary.

417
00:35:56,438 --> 00:35:57,678
It's an amazing documentary.

418
00:35:57,678 --> 00:35:59,918
We won a Peabody Award.

419
00:35:59,918 --> 00:36:01,938
We were Emmy nominated.

420
00:36:02,038 --> 00:36:07,038
We won a slew of other awards and Film Festival and part of many different films.

421
00:36:07,538 --> 00:36:11,694
But the documentary follows myself.

422
00:36:11,694 --> 00:36:16,334
Shawnee Gibson and Bruce McIntyre in our maternal health story.

423
00:36:16,334 --> 00:36:26,294
Pretty much from the beginning, know, Shemani passed away October 11th, 2019, which is
also the same day as my birthday.

424
00:36:26,994 --> 00:36:38,054
We were provided the opportunity to film on December 19th, 2019, which is her birthday,
because we created an event called Aftershock.

425
00:36:38,054 --> 00:36:41,582
And, you know, the producer of the film,

426
00:36:41,582 --> 00:36:47,232
Paula Eisel came to just see, you cause she was like, I want to create a film around
maternal health.

427
00:36:47,232 --> 00:36:50,606
But she saw how what we did with our community.

428
00:36:50,606 --> 00:36:54,504
event called Aftershock and she said that, you know what, I want to follow your family.

429
00:36:54,766 --> 00:37:00,346
So it was really kind of from the rawest moments of our lives.

430
00:37:00,346 --> 00:37:05,026
It was two months after Shemani passed away and they followed us for about a year and a
half.

431
00:37:05,026 --> 00:37:08,866
It goes through all of the emotions.

432
00:37:10,246 --> 00:37:13,886
It was the worst time of my life, to be honest.

433
00:37:14,006 --> 00:37:16,026
I was losing weight.

434
00:37:16,726 --> 00:37:18,726
My bed was all over the place.

435
00:37:18,726 --> 00:37:23,150
I couldn't think straight, but I'm so happy that.

436
00:37:23,150 --> 00:37:28,533
people got a chance to see what grief and growth look like, right?

437
00:37:28,533 --> 00:37:40,000
What grieving and leading looks like uh and the fact that what community engagement looks
like in this maternal health space because it's so important.

438
00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:50,886
having that first conversation with Bruce and me and him chopping it up that first night,
he told me that he had to bury Amber on his birthday as well.

439
00:37:51,074 --> 00:38:01,480
So when you have those things, those types of things that are in alignment, it's really
like, as much as we both maybe didn't want to be in this space and want to do this work,

440
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:09,965
was like Shemani and Amber was like slapping us both in the face saying, this is what you
have to do.

441
00:38:09,965 --> 00:38:13,767
I don't care what you think, this is happening.

442
00:38:13,767 --> 00:38:19,410
know, so as horrific as it sounds and as hard as it was,

443
00:38:19,906 --> 00:38:24,048
the knowing that somebody else actually had to go through this.

444
00:38:24,048 --> 00:38:35,793
And more importantly, like somebody that I connected with outside of even having that
initial conversation, it was just confirmation that we were on the right path.

445
00:38:35,793 --> 00:38:47,798
And that more importantly, as men, we need to be advocates in this space for not just
women and reproductive justice and maternal health, but also how do we create a form, an

446
00:38:47,798 --> 00:38:49,036
opportunity.

447
00:38:49,036 --> 00:38:52,648
to bring fathers into the fold in a more intentional way.

448
00:38:52,648 --> 00:38:54,009
But it's a beautiful film.

449
00:38:54,009 --> 00:38:55,650
Please go check it out.

450
00:38:55,650 --> 00:38:56,580
It'll change your life.

451
00:38:56,580 --> 00:39:05,726
It goes through the history of maternal health care, reproductive health, transition to
granny midwives, to having births in hospitals, and then how we can create more

452
00:39:05,726 --> 00:39:17,086
opportunities for birthing centers, for birthing options, for just people having a better
understanding of what healthcare looks like now in 2025.

453
00:39:17,102 --> 00:39:22,626
and systems that can be put in place for us to redirect birthing outcomes.

454
00:39:22,626 --> 00:39:24,747
Yeah, it's incredibly well done.

455
00:39:24,967 --> 00:39:25,928
It's beautiful.

456
00:39:25,928 --> 00:39:30,490
I've watched it so many times for everybody listening to us here today.

457
00:39:30,490 --> 00:39:31,401
It's aftershock.

458
00:39:31,401 --> 00:39:32,712
It's on Hulu.

459
00:39:32,712 --> 00:39:38,915
I was at a conference last year, all clinicians, all doctors, et cetera, in the audience.

460
00:39:38,915 --> 00:39:41,246
And I actually spoke about maternal health in this country.

461
00:39:41,246 --> 00:39:47,780
And it was amazing to me how many people didn't realize the impact of the problem.

462
00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:50,281
And it's not that they didn't care.

463
00:39:50,281 --> 00:39:51,872
They didn't know.

464
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:59,817
And so here I am as a lay person talking about my pulmonary embolism and I'm like, Hey,
you guys all need to know about this.

465
00:39:59,817 --> 00:40:05,361
And I played pieces of aftershock and they were like, we just, didn't know.

466
00:40:05,361 --> 00:40:10,295
And so that reached people, which will reach more people, which will reach more people.

467
00:40:10,295 --> 00:40:17,151
And yes, we're talking about pulmonary embolism at the national blood clot Alliance, but
this it's bigger than that, right?

468
00:40:17,151 --> 00:40:18,532
It's bigger than that.

469
00:40:18,532 --> 00:40:20,792
Amari, thank you for joining us here today.

470
00:40:20,792 --> 00:40:22,783
This has been an incredible conversation.

471
00:40:22,783 --> 00:40:25,682
You're going to reach so many people.

472
00:40:25,682 --> 00:40:28,466
I know we're going to save lives because of this episode.

473
00:40:28,466 --> 00:40:31,368
Please keep doing the incredible work that you're doing.

474
00:40:31,368 --> 00:40:34,650
And I just want to say, we want to work with you.

475
00:40:34,650 --> 00:40:37,211
We want to raise awareness around this terrible issue.

476
00:40:37,211 --> 00:40:39,933
This is more than just blood clots and pulmonary embolism.

477
00:40:39,933 --> 00:40:46,897
This is, you know, something that at a national level should not be happening in our
country.

478
00:40:46,897 --> 00:40:48,908
Women should not be dying.

479
00:40:48,908 --> 00:40:56,256
Maternal mortality should not be an issue in this country and it's going to take all of us
together to make sure that this stops.

480
00:40:56,256 --> 00:40:58,101
But we have the power to do it together.

481
00:40:58,101 --> 00:40:59,242
So thank you.

482
00:41:03,864 --> 00:41:11,620
We want to thank Omari one more time for sharing his journey and illuminating us with the
legacy and light of Shemona Gibson.

483
00:41:11,860 --> 00:41:17,365
As always, thank you for joining us on another episode of Taking a Breath.

484
00:41:17,505 --> 00:41:24,811
For more information on risk, prevention, and community, please visit StopTheClaught.org.

485
00:41:24,971 --> 00:41:32,518
And if you wish to aid in our efforts of blood clot awareness, please consider donating to
our cause at StopTheClaught.org.

486
00:41:32,518 --> 00:41:33,262
oh

487
00:41:33,262 --> 00:41:35,435
forward slash donate.

488
00:41:35,479 --> 00:41:38,583
We know the patient because we are the patient.

489
00:41:38,583 --> 00:41:43,228
Together with listeners like you, we can collectively stop the clot.

490
00:41:43,832 --> 00:41:47,269
For more information, visit stoptheclot.org.

491
00:41:49,518 --> 00:41:52,379
Another Everything Podcast production.

492
00:41:53,868 --> 00:41:54,350
Visit.

493
00:41:54,350 --> 00:41:58,562
everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.

494
00:41:58,562 --> 00:42:01,207
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