Joel: Welcome to No Compromises. A peek into the mind of two old web devs who have seen some things. This is Joel.
Aaron: And this is Aaron.
Joel: I've been enjoying using video lately to kind of share either status updates, maybe a little product demo. Where in the past I might have typed up an email or taken some screenshots or posted in Slack. I don't know, I've been on this little kick. You've probably noticed this, Aaron. I know you've noticed it. Where I've been recording short videos, not 30-minute demos, but three to four to five-minute videos. And it's not just because that's the free limit that Loom gives you. It's because I'm concise with my... No, I actually did upgrade because it also limits how many you can have at one time so they forced my hand. I love paying for software, software developers-
Aaron: Just say you love paying for software.
Joel: That's right.
Aaron: I'm not surprised.
Joel: Exactly.
Joel: Okay. So anyways, I just thought it might be interesting to talk about because I could see it being overused but I found it effective. Especially with certain clients and in certain cases. And I just want to kind of throw that out to you and see, first of all, what's your take on it and if you have any different opinion than I do.
Aaron: I think there's a lot of context that goes into that too. How polished and prepared is the video?
Joel: It's not.
Aaron: Who is the audience for it? I think really, the audience is probably more important. Like you said, for certain clients it makes sense, for other clients you have to understand how their workflow is. So I'm thinking about maybe for a smaller client, it might make sense to send a video. You understand it, you're having a conversation. For a larger client, maybe a project manager and stuff like that, maybe not so good. Because that's going to have to be reinterpreted, written, shuffled, put into reports, all that kind of stuff, so when you write something, they're probably easy. I'm just making assumptions here. But I've worked with a number of project managers and while they may appreciate that, I don't know if it'll go beyond them then.
Joel: No, that's a good point. And where I was thinking of kind of the... I don't want to say the dark side that's too ominous of video, but where it might be less effective is if I was just talking and not showing you something. I think that maybe would be better communicated in text because you can scan it, you can reread it, you can copy a piece of it, and share it with somebody. I even do that sometimes too. I'll copy a paragraph and you know I love my OmniFocus to-do list, and I have a hotkey to turn that into a To-Do. You can't do any of that stuff with video. So, if you're purely trying to provide a status update, I agree it might be overkill. I was also thinking too, there are some circumstances where maybe you don't want to watch a video. I don't know like somebody's sitting next to you. Like, this part maybe doesn't apply in the work setting, or it could. Like, "I don't want to put my earbuds in and listen to this."
Aaron: Yeah. Or you just don't want to have to wear headphones. Like, "I want to work, I want to do my day without having to put headphones in."
Joel: Right. So I get that.
Aaron: "Now someone's telling me that I have to watch this video to do my work, I don't want to watch a video."
Joel: Just as a side. This is not work-related, but I was listening to somebody complaining about, "Man, my friend doesn't text me. She always sends these voice clips and they're like 20 minutes long." And it was like she kind of dreaded when she would get one of these because it was going to take over her life for the next 20 minutes. But I would never do one that long. But all right, so I threw out this idea and we're shooting it apart. I need to talk about the benefits of it before I look like a total idiot here. In this particular case, the client I was sharing them with actually really appreciated them and it was primarily a demo. Actually, I can praise you, Aaron. This was something you built that was very, I think innovative and is something the client probably should have had in the 10-plus years they ran this app but never did. So you built it, designed it, implemented an early version of it and it wasn't enough fanfare for me to say, "Go click here and look at it." I had to present it like, "Brought to you by Aaron."
Aaron: Well, and it was also a unique enough sort of feature that you wonder if they would've just saw it, would they have known the power of it?
Joel: True.
Aaron: So you being able to give that demo kind of showed like, "These are all the things you could do, you don't have to know them all right now." So it was like a nice little teaser. I would say, I agree too with the idea of video. I've been a huge fan of video meetings and conferences. I know that people hate that. "I want to turn off my camera," and stuff. Well, the reason why you want to turn off your camera is... I know I'm going to go on a little rant here, but the reason why you turn off your camera is because the meeting is crap. It's because someone is making you go to a meeting that's way too long or whatever. It's not the video's fault, it's the person who's running the meeting's fault.
Joel: Or you don't need to be there. It doesn't even really involve you, you're just added on.
Aaron: Exactly. So I believe video is the way that we can see and react with people and understand. Even when we're doing the podcast me and Joel are doing video so we can feed off of each other and I can make hand signals at him. But no, video is good for explanation but it's also just a really good way to communicate whether it's one-direction or multi-direction.
Joel: Yeah, we're kind of riffing off the video meeting thing. There's nothing worse than, let's say there's four people on the meeting and you're the only person who has their camera on. And at that point, I'll be stubborn and I'll just leave it on and I'm hoping they feel a little bad and turn it on but they don't. But it's like you're just speaking into the void. And for me, it highlights... Because I think I was maybe anti-camera and you kind of talked me into it. I think before you and I started working together, I would not have my camera on as much. So now I'm the opposite where I really it and I'll do it even if I'm the only person in the meeting with it on.
Aaron: Yep. Most people are anti-camera for the reason I mentioned. Is because usually you get put on a call and you're like, "All right, now it's an hour. I have to look interested in this while I'm playing a game." It's like no, that meeting should have been 10 minutes. Our eyeballs are all on the screen and we go on with our day.
Joel: That's right.
Aaron: All right. So I mean, I guess in a way you can look at it as it might be easier for you to write a longer explanation of features and stuff if you're just sitting at your keyboard and typing. Whereas if you have, especially if you have that sort of internal goal, regardless of whether it's free or not on Loom, I want to make this three minutes. Then you actually have to be more concise and more to the point with your communication as well.
Joel: And that's kind of what I was thinking of saying next. Is like, just like some things would be better as text I think the thing that's better as video is when you're actually conveying more information more quickly in the video. Because in that email to show all the different iterations and the interactive nature of the tool you built, I would've had to take 10 screenshots with a lot of exposition. "Okay. So this screenshot, I checked this checkbox and notice what changed here." Whereas in a video, I could just make the changes and talk about it. So it might have been a much longer email than what probably ended up being a two or three-minute video. So the information density can work both directions.
Aaron: "But people really like long emails," I thought.
Joel: All that talk about video meetings made me recognize something that I don't know if I'm alone. I'm a little afraid to admit this, but I want to mention it because I'm hoping at least if it's not you, Aaron, other people listening to this will say, "Yes, Joel, I do that too." And the thing is I don't know why, but I look at myself in the video meeting when I'm talking most of the time. Do you look at the other person?
Aaron: Most of the time?
Joel: Yes. I will, I'm doing it right now. I will, now I'm looking at you, Aaron. I will catch myself and I'm like, "Why am I looking at myself?" You know if you're up in front of a bunch of people, sometimes you avoid eye contact because you're a little nervous or something. I don't know if it's like that or if I'm just really obsessed with myself or I'm the one talking so I'm listening to myself. I don't know, so I'm guessing based on your reaction this is not something you do. Or, do you want to open up, Aaron, and tell me you do this too?
Aaron: No, I'm not a narcissist.
Joel: Ah, so that's the only explanation in your mind?
Aaron: The only one.
Joel: Ah, all right. Well, guilty is charged I guess. I'll have to work on that.
Aaron: I know by now you're just itching to see Joel and I on camera and I think that maybe we can help you out and then make it worth your while too.
Joel: That's right. As part of the Mastering Laravel Community, we occasionally have live dev calls where we do Q&A, maybe demo something cool. If that sounds interesting to you, head over to masteringlaravel.io and click the community button.
Aaron: But you got to turn on your camera.