WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.870 --> 00:00:06.600 Welcome to Resilience Talk hosted by Paul Spencer of Second Nature Solutions. 00:00:07.020 --> 00:00:07.860 Let's dive in. 00:00:08.868 --> 00:00:11.838 Brandon Giella: Hello Paul, and welcome back to another episode 00:00:11.838 --> 00:00:14.058 of the Resilience Talk podcast. 00:00:14.358 --> 00:00:17.268 This will be an interesting one because we are gonna talk about negotiation 00:00:17.718 --> 00:00:23.328 and there are, uh, a lot of ways to, to, I guess, discuss that topic, but. 00:00:23.853 --> 00:00:25.503 In light of last episode. 00:00:25.653 --> 00:00:30.603 So last episode we talked about this age of transition that we 00:00:30.603 --> 00:00:35.253 are entering into and how you can thrive in that age of transition. 00:00:35.673 --> 00:00:38.223 And you got some feedback, by the way, on that episode that I'm 00:00:38.223 --> 00:00:39.633 excited to share in the newsletter. 00:00:40.143 --> 00:00:46.713 But um, but as we're entering into this age of transition, you are 00:00:46.713 --> 00:00:48.633 making the argument, Paul, that. 00:00:49.113 --> 00:00:56.343 This is not like a previous big cataclysmic event like 2008 and things 00:00:56.343 --> 00:01:00.333 got hairy for a little while, but more or less we returned to normal 00:01:00.543 --> 00:01:00.663 Paul Spencer: Mm-hmm. 00:01:00.693 --> 00:01:00.843 Brandon Giella: after I. 00:01:01.803 --> 00:01:02.073 Paul Spencer: Yep. 00:01:02.298 --> 00:01:06.438 Brandon Giella: is a big, hairy cataclysmic event that, uh, we 00:01:06.438 --> 00:01:10.248 are in this period where it is actually fundamentally changing. 00:01:10.428 --> 00:01:12.048 It's not an incremental change. 00:01:12.048 --> 00:01:13.608 It's a categorical change. 00:01:13.698 --> 00:01:18.768 It's a, it's a big change that we're entering into, and so to 00:01:18.768 --> 00:01:23.238 create a resilient business within this new age that we're entering 00:01:23.238 --> 00:01:24.858 into for many different reasons. 00:01:25.508 --> 00:01:28.658 One of them being tariffs, one of them being technology. 00:01:28.658 --> 00:01:31.148 You know, there's a number of different events that are happening. 00:01:32.348 --> 00:01:36.458 Negotiation is a very important part of becoming a resilient business. 00:01:36.878 --> 00:01:41.348 But you argue it's not just negotiation in sales and around pricing, 00:01:41.498 --> 00:01:43.028 though, that is a big component. 00:01:43.088 --> 00:01:45.728 It's, it's negotiation around a lot of different things. 00:01:46.718 --> 00:01:48.428 But I wanna start with. 00:01:48.843 --> 00:01:54.213 Um, negotiation as it does relate to the sales and pricing and things like that. 00:01:54.243 --> 00:01:59.523 Maybe that is a good place to start because you have mentioned, um, that 00:01:59.523 --> 00:02:04.293 maybe some of your customers are experiencing this kind of like, um, you 00:02:04.293 --> 00:02:08.913 know, you're getting calls of, Hey, can you reduce your price by 20% or 50%? 00:02:08.943 --> 00:02:12.453 Like, we're going through this crazy time, and then there's maybe skills 00:02:12.453 --> 00:02:14.403 around that that we can talk about. 00:02:14.403 --> 00:02:15.993 How do you handle that conversation? 00:02:16.938 --> 00:02:22.248 So before we get into all of that, can you talk very briefly about what you, 00:02:22.278 --> 00:02:29.868 how you see negotiation as a, a component of a resilient business within this age 00:02:29.868 --> 00:02:32.447 of transition that we're entering into? 00:02:32.463 --> 00:02:34.412 Paul Spencer: So, so negotiating is. 00:02:35.402 --> 00:02:38.972 An input into a resilient business. 00:02:39.092 --> 00:02:42.992 So regardless if we were going through the age of transition here, right, 00:02:43.112 --> 00:02:48.962 uh, normally we would want to be good negotiators, and I would say probably 00:02:48.962 --> 00:02:54.063 a lot of, a lot of you listening are, are fairly decent at negotiating anyway. 00:02:54.542 --> 00:02:59.282 Um, but it's gonna be even more critical, um, as we go forward. 00:02:59.282 --> 00:03:03.422 As, as you mentioned, right, in 2008 is it is just an example. 00:03:03.992 --> 00:03:05.283 If we look backwards, right? 00:03:05.283 --> 00:03:06.843 It's always easy to look backwards. 00:03:07.202 --> 00:03:09.932 In 2008 is a, is a pretty big event. 00:03:10.503 --> 00:03:17.972 Um, and we had a big financial crisis and for some industries and some businesses 00:03:17.972 --> 00:03:20.762 that was more catastrophic than others. 00:03:21.212 --> 00:03:26.462 Um, and it definitely affected the economy and everything that was going on 00:03:26.462 --> 00:03:29.433 around us, um, but eventually went away. 00:03:29.792 --> 00:03:30.092 Right. 00:03:30.212 --> 00:03:32.432 Um, I can use air quotes in that. 00:03:32.492 --> 00:03:35.282 There's lots of, side effects that 00:03:35.502 --> 00:03:37.512 Brandon Giella: Yes, yes, of course. 00:03:37.712 --> 00:03:40.742 Paul Spencer: but we, we did get back to essentially normal. 00:03:41.132 --> 00:03:44.012 Um, and we went on, we went on our way, right? 00:03:44.042 --> 00:03:46.322 And so we can negotiate in that way. 00:03:46.742 --> 00:03:53.702 Um, so here, just proposing that because we are in this transition period that. 00:03:54.078 --> 00:03:59.628 It's going to be difficult to understand what will be normal the back end of this, 00:03:59.912 --> 00:04:00.212 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:04:00.257 --> 00:04:03.227 Paul Spencer: maybe it won't be as dramatic as, as I'm playing it out. 00:04:03.227 --> 00:04:07.938 Maybe it'll be nearly the same, but likely it's gonna be very different. 00:04:08.387 --> 00:04:13.428 And so because of that, um, this is where the negotiating aspect comes in 00:04:13.667 --> 00:04:19.668 to be pretty critical, to be able to understand how I am going to negotiate, 00:04:19.968 --> 00:04:23.328 win-win opportunities with my customers. 00:04:24.152 --> 00:04:26.943 With my suppliers, with my vendors. 00:04:27.123 --> 00:04:30.358 And then we also talk about, um, 'cause we always think about. 00:04:31.337 --> 00:04:34.008 Negotiating as a sales tactic, 00:04:34.328 --> 00:04:39.108 It's a sales strategy and yes, it's part of sales, um, but we also have it, 00:04:39.228 --> 00:04:41.628 um, in other aspects of our business. 00:04:41.628 --> 00:04:42.707 We have it internally, 00:04:42.993 --> 00:04:43.413 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:04:43.457 --> 00:04:46.548 Paul Spencer: So when we have, um, our executive suite, 00:04:47.028 --> 00:04:49.008 right, uh, our leadership team. 00:04:49.323 --> 00:04:53.972 We are always negotiating with each other on where we're going strategically 00:04:54.393 --> 00:04:56.373 and what are we gonna be working on. 00:04:56.793 --> 00:05:01.592 Um, and maybe we even have business partners, ownership partners. 00:05:02.013 --> 00:05:04.323 Um, there's negotiation inside there. 00:05:04.683 --> 00:05:05.703 Um, there could be. 00:05:06.058 --> 00:05:10.707 Different business partners were two entities, share some kind of product 00:05:10.707 --> 00:05:15.448 or maybe they're working together, um, to build a, uh, a unique product. 00:05:15.448 --> 00:05:18.568 And there's a, there's a partnership as part of that. 00:05:18.957 --> 00:05:24.748 Um, so anyway, as stakeholders, shareholders, internal customers, external 00:05:24.748 --> 00:05:27.897 customers, we are constantly negotiating 00:05:28.458 --> 00:05:28.638 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:05:29.098 --> 00:05:30.598 Paul Spencer: it's important that we, we. 00:05:31.018 --> 00:05:36.087 Um, think of that as a skill that we want to elevate ourselves into. 00:05:36.238 --> 00:05:40.378 We want to, we wanna get good at understanding how to negotiate and not 00:05:40.378 --> 00:05:44.967 to take it in a personal way, and to be able to navigate the give and take 00:05:45.027 --> 00:05:48.897 of, um, coming to a win-win situation. 00:05:50.582 --> 00:05:50.912 Brandon Giella: Got it. 00:05:51.483 --> 00:05:54.662 I want to talk about how you actually do that. 00:05:54.662 --> 00:05:58.893 Like what are some ways that you think about negotiation for win-win? 00:05:58.893 --> 00:06:02.162 I know you've got some tips on that, maybe some methodologies. 00:06:02.162 --> 00:06:05.073 There's a, uh, one that you mentioned in a, in a video that you created. 00:06:05.763 --> 00:06:12.303 Um, but before we get there, um, you talk about, um, this kind of period 00:06:12.303 --> 00:06:17.943 that we're in and some feel, some folks feeling this kind of price sensitivity. 00:06:18.453 --> 00:06:22.052 If you could say, so you've got customers, you've got people in your network, 00:06:22.443 --> 00:06:26.792 um, where their, their customers are feeling this kind of pressure given 00:06:26.792 --> 00:06:29.582 the tariff environment, economic environment that we find ourselves in. 00:06:29.823 --> 00:06:29.943 Yeah. 00:06:29.943 --> 00:06:31.563 Talk, talk a little bit about that. 00:06:31.787 --> 00:06:32.897 Paul Spencer: Um, yeah, so, 00:06:35.118 --> 00:06:40.638 as always within our business it sometimes it's hard to separate the noise. 00:06:41.282 --> 00:06:41.342 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:06:41.688 --> 00:06:46.097 Paul Spencer: Um, so we've got the backdrop of the tariffs and, uh, and 00:06:46.097 --> 00:06:52.188 then every, every article, probably every headline, maybe a month ago, it's all 00:06:52.188 --> 00:06:57.168 about we're going into a recession and the market was crashing and all of that. 00:06:57.258 --> 00:07:01.727 And then so when you get customers coming to you saying, 00:07:02.508 --> 00:07:04.248 Hey, can we work on the price? 00:07:04.368 --> 00:07:05.268 Your price? 00:07:05.597 --> 00:07:06.227 Can we cut? 00:07:06.917 --> 00:07:11.357 We're looking to cut our costs and you're in that cost bucket 00:07:12.617 --> 00:07:15.047 can we, uh, can we drop 10%? 00:07:15.047 --> 00:07:16.367 Can we drop 20%? 00:07:16.758 --> 00:07:17.087 Right? 00:07:17.508 --> 00:07:21.677 Um, so then we ask ourselves, oh, is that because of 00:07:22.028 --> 00:07:22.448 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:07:22.787 --> 00:07:23.688 Paul Spencer: what's going on? 00:07:23.868 --> 00:07:24.288 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:07:25.518 --> 00:07:27.438 Paul Spencer: and we don't know that unless we ask. 00:07:28.157 --> 00:07:32.957 Um, but that's part of the negotiating is, ah, yeah, that's interesting. 00:07:33.558 --> 00:07:33.888 like that. 00:07:34.097 --> 00:07:34.367 Right. 00:07:34.727 --> 00:07:35.688 It's interesting. 00:07:36.513 --> 00:07:40.263 You wanna cut our, cut your cost by 10% and we're in that bucket. 00:07:40.953 --> 00:07:44.643 Um, would you propose we do that, right? 00:07:44.643 --> 00:07:45.152 It's a great way 00:07:45.228 --> 00:07:45.498 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:07:45.602 --> 00:07:46.323 Paul Spencer: opening up. 00:07:46.983 --> 00:07:47.103 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:07:47.673 --> 00:07:52.982 Paul Spencer: tell me more about the, the costs and the, the other types of costs 00:07:52.982 --> 00:07:54.933 that are in the bucket that we're in. 00:07:57.243 --> 00:08:03.303 Uh, so you're, you're just listening and then you ask a question based 00:08:03.303 --> 00:08:04.383 on what they're telling you. 00:08:04.832 --> 00:08:06.212 And then you don't talk. 00:08:06.922 --> 00:08:08.568 Brandon Giella: Hmm mm-hmm. 00:08:08.688 --> 00:08:08.988 Mm-hmm. 00:08:09.587 --> 00:08:09.888 Yeah. 00:08:10.457 --> 00:08:14.987 No, this is your first step in, in the win-win mindset is listen 00:08:14.987 --> 00:08:17.058 more than I talk, so I love that. 00:08:17.058 --> 00:08:17.328 Yeah. 00:08:18.062 --> 00:08:18.393 Paul Spencer: Right. 00:08:18.453 --> 00:08:24.513 Uh, because the reason for that is a couple of things is the 00:08:24.513 --> 00:08:30.992 more I listen to you and the more I, I respond in a positive way. 00:08:31.997 --> 00:08:34.308 That I'm listening and that I hear what you're saying. 00:08:34.997 --> 00:08:40.127 then the more I ask more, tell me more questions, 00:08:40.658 --> 00:08:40.878 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:08:41.778 --> 00:08:43.038 Paul Spencer: tell me more about that. 00:08:43.398 --> 00:08:43.758 What? 00:08:44.628 --> 00:08:45.828 does that mean for you? 00:08:46.358 --> 00:08:46.478 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:08:46.608 --> 00:08:49.008 Paul Spencer: me understand how I can help you, 00:08:49.503 --> 00:08:49.743 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:08:50.148 --> 00:08:51.348 Paul Spencer: and then just let them talk. 00:08:52.068 --> 00:08:57.498 The more you do that, the more they feel like they're being listened to and when 00:08:57.498 --> 00:08:59.208 they feel like they're being listened to. 00:08:59.868 --> 00:09:00.168 Uh. 00:09:00.858 --> 00:09:02.478 They're trusting you, right? 00:09:02.938 --> 00:09:03.058 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:09:03.138 --> 00:09:08.868 Paul Spencer: we could take it, um, and move it a, as a comparison, Which 00:09:08.913 --> 00:09:08.973 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:09:09.828 --> 00:09:12.588 Paul Spencer: a combative position, right? 00:09:12.798 --> 00:09:17.568 So you, Brandon, may feel that you're the procurement officer at 00:09:17.688 --> 00:09:22.158 Customer X, and now you're calling Paul, who's the owner of whatever. 00:09:22.608 --> 00:09:29.238 And you say thinking, as soon as I mention this to Paul, gonna come at me. 00:09:29.958 --> 00:09:30.038 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:09:30.183 --> 00:09:34.203 Paul Spencer: gonna come up with all kinds of excuses why he's not gonna drop it 00:09:35.788 --> 00:09:35.908 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:09:35.943 --> 00:09:37.503 Paul Spencer: not even a dime, right? 00:09:37.563 --> 00:09:41.943 And so what you do, and part of your preparation with your call with 00:09:41.943 --> 00:09:46.233 me, you think of all the defensive measures you're going to take, 00:09:46.413 --> 00:09:46.803 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:09:47.313 --> 00:09:50.613 Paul Spencer: So you're putting your guard up you're gonna actually, 00:09:50.613 --> 00:09:52.683 you're getting your, your, um. 00:09:53.523 --> 00:09:59.043 even your anxiety up about the call and you're, you're planning to go to battle. 00:09:59.223 --> 00:09:59.523 Right. 00:09:59.738 --> 00:10:00.158 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:10:00.393 --> 00:10:03.963 Paul Spencer: And when I disarm that by saying, oh, interesting. 00:10:04.293 --> 00:10:05.403 Tell me more about that. 00:10:06.633 --> 00:10:06.843 Yeah. 00:10:06.843 --> 00:10:09.753 That's not a, that's not a, uh, a fun situation. 00:10:09.753 --> 00:10:11.133 We've been through this before. 00:10:11.688 --> 00:10:13.848 Um, what are your, what are your expenses? 00:10:13.848 --> 00:10:14.778 What are you feeling? 00:10:15.048 --> 00:10:16.038 Is this some right? 00:10:16.038 --> 00:10:16.608 And then you 00:10:16.738 --> 00:10:17.158 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:10:17.328 --> 00:10:19.068 Paul Spencer: you could ask lots of different questions 00:10:19.278 --> 00:10:20.958 just based on what you tell me. 00:10:21.138 --> 00:10:21.228 I 00:10:21.238 --> 00:10:21.658 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:10:21.798 --> 00:10:23.538 Paul Spencer: a phrase or a couple of words, 00:10:23.638 --> 00:10:24.058 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:10:24.758 --> 00:10:25.178 Mm-hmm. 00:10:25.248 --> 00:10:25.488 Paul Spencer: Right? 00:10:25.908 --> 00:10:30.408 So anyway, I'm building trust and plus I'm learning more about your 00:10:30.408 --> 00:10:37.098 situation that, um, I can help fashion a win-win opportunity. 00:10:37.368 --> 00:10:37.788 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:10:38.103 --> 00:10:42.453 Paul Spencer: Without that, we're not going to arrive to a win-win. 00:10:42.843 --> 00:10:45.423 And what's, what are the other alternatives? 00:10:45.843 --> 00:10:46.653 Lose win. 00:10:46.683 --> 00:10:47.493 Meaning I lose. 00:10:47.493 --> 00:10:50.913 You Win or, uh, win lose. 00:10:51.033 --> 00:10:51.513 I win. 00:10:51.513 --> 00:10:52.173 You lose. 00:10:52.383 --> 00:10:53.763 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:10:53.764 --> 00:10:53.765 Mm-hmm. 00:10:53.913 --> 00:10:59.103 Paul Spencer: and if we have that kind of deal or an agreement by the time 00:10:59.103 --> 00:11:02.703 we're done, then one of us feels, uh. 00:11:03.993 --> 00:11:07.533 Not happy about the situation and maybe even taken advantage of. 00:11:07.908 --> 00:11:08.238 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:11:08.403 --> 00:11:09.393 Paul Spencer: that doesn't feel good. 00:11:09.483 --> 00:11:13.293 And it wears on our trust with each other. 00:11:13.428 --> 00:11:13.848 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:11:13.923 --> 00:11:16.683 Paul Spencer: And it wouldn't be surprising that if I was the one who 00:11:16.683 --> 00:11:23.193 won and you lost you're my customer that six months from now, you give me 00:11:23.193 --> 00:11:25.563 a call and say, we found somebody else. 00:11:25.563 --> 00:11:25.953 We're done. 00:11:26.628 --> 00:11:26.928 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:11:27.123 --> 00:11:29.253 Paul Spencer: You're not even gonna ask me for a price cut. 00:11:30.063 --> 00:11:30.603 You're done. 00:11:31.283 --> 00:11:31.503 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:11:31.563 --> 00:11:32.913 Paul Spencer: Because you've been sore. 00:11:33.288 --> 00:11:34.848 About the, the situation. 00:11:35.238 --> 00:11:35.688 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:11:35.718 --> 00:11:38.838 Paul Spencer: negotiating doesn't always mean that you arrive to a win-win and 00:11:39.078 --> 00:11:41.298 everybody's happy and skipping around. 00:11:41.298 --> 00:11:42.378 I mean, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:42.378 --> 00:11:43.278 It's not all that. 00:11:43.668 --> 00:11:48.048 Um, but you have to, you have to go through the negotiating 00:11:48.048 --> 00:11:50.718 process, in order to be resilient, 00:11:51.173 --> 00:11:51.463 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:11:51.528 --> 00:11:53.778 Paul Spencer: If you, if you take that across. 00:11:55.124 --> 00:11:58.968 five or six of your customers that are asking you those types of questions 00:11:59.328 --> 00:12:05.028 and you negotiate those deals in a, in an honest win-win way, that has 00:12:05.028 --> 00:12:07.308 long, that has longevity for you, 00:12:07.358 --> 00:12:08.728 Brandon Giella: That's a resilient business 00:12:09.128 --> 00:12:15.408 Paul Spencer: As opposed to making sure I hold on to each one of those five or 00:12:15.408 --> 00:12:18.078 six, I'm gonna hold onto as much as I can. 00:12:18.423 --> 00:12:18.753 Brandon Giella: Hmm, 00:12:19.098 --> 00:12:20.898 Paul Spencer: and I work those agreements. 00:12:21.288 --> 00:12:23.448 Um, I'm actually jeopardizing. 00:12:23.838 --> 00:12:24.688 Maybe all of them 00:12:24.688 --> 00:12:24.768 in 00:12:25.078 --> 00:12:25.408 Brandon Giella: in 00:12:26.018 --> 00:12:26.688 Paul Spencer: the short term. 00:12:26.868 --> 00:12:27.168 Right? 00:12:27.588 --> 00:12:28.728 Definitely in the long term. 00:12:29.133 --> 00:12:33.603 Brandon Giella: I, I like that distinction that you would think that in 00:12:33.603 --> 00:12:39.063 a negotiation like that you are, let's say, getting more revenue per client. 00:12:39.093 --> 00:12:42.213 It means more cash flow, it means more resilience. 00:12:42.933 --> 00:12:49.293 But what you're arguing is a non-monetary kind of resilience where that trust that 00:12:49.293 --> 00:12:53.913 you're building up, or I shouldn't say non, non-monetary 'cause it is eventually 00:12:53.913 --> 00:12:55.923 monetary long-term relationship. 00:12:55.923 --> 00:12:57.723 So a trust is a higher outcome. 00:12:57.753 --> 00:12:58.053 Yeah. 00:12:58.083 --> 00:12:58.353 Okay. 00:12:58.353 --> 00:12:59.403 I like where you're going with that. 00:12:59.403 --> 00:12:59.763 Yeah. 00:12:59.973 --> 00:13:04.893 Paul Spencer: uh, if you, if you focus on the money, uh, you will, you'll, you have 00:13:04.893 --> 00:13:08.313 an opportunity to skip the trust building 00:13:08.583 --> 00:13:08.913 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:13:08.913 --> 00:13:09.423 Yeah, yeah. 00:13:09.428 --> 00:13:09.778 Mm-hmm. 00:13:09.918 --> 00:13:10.338 Mm-hmm. 00:13:10.593 --> 00:13:15.153 Paul Spencer: Um, if you focus on building trust in a win-win negotiation, 00:13:16.563 --> 00:13:21.453 then in theory, again, the outcome will be a better monetary situation. 00:13:22.263 --> 00:13:24.993 Brandon Giella: I think there's a proverb that says, I think there's 00:13:24.993 --> 00:13:28.083 a proverb that says Wealth gained in haste will soon come to ruin. 00:13:28.713 --> 00:13:28.833 Yeah. 00:13:29.448 --> 00:13:30.768 Yeah, I like that. 00:13:30.828 --> 00:13:31.038 Hmm, 00:13:31.053 --> 00:13:34.593 Paul Spencer: So, um, another part of the negotiating is just knowing 00:13:34.593 --> 00:13:37.263 that, uh, we can't get to a win-win. 00:13:37.758 --> 00:13:39.468 Brandon Giella: hmm hmm. 00:13:39.753 --> 00:13:44.193 Paul Spencer: um, and because of that, then there's probably no 00:13:44.193 --> 00:13:46.173 reason to have any kind of agreement, 00:13:46.578 --> 00:13:46.968 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:13:47.788 --> 00:13:48.093 It's not gonna 00:13:48.093 --> 00:13:50.283 Paul Spencer: serve you, it's not gonna serve me. 00:13:50.793 --> 00:13:55.113 And so, We'll just separate ways, right? 00:13:55.443 --> 00:13:57.813 We, we'll, we'll, either if you're a current customer, 00:13:57.903 --> 00:13:59.073 maybe we'll wind it down. 00:13:59.073 --> 00:14:00.273 We'll agree to wind it down. 00:14:00.303 --> 00:14:00.903 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:14:01.473 --> 00:14:04.803 Paul Spencer: because again, that may be the win-win, 00:14:05.523 --> 00:14:05.823 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:14:06.153 --> 00:14:06.483 Paul Spencer: right? 00:14:06.633 --> 00:14:08.803 Which is, let's just call it quits. 00:14:09.563 --> 00:14:10.353 Not in a mean way, 00:14:10.383 --> 00:14:10.563 We can't 00:14:10.863 --> 00:14:11.103 Brandon Giella: Yeah, 00:14:11.769 --> 00:14:15.993 Paul Spencer: get to a place that I can't support your cost cutting needs 00:14:16.103 --> 00:14:19.803 because it's not gonna work for me and my business and my model. 00:14:20.403 --> 00:14:20.463 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:14:20.913 --> 00:14:22.533 Paul Spencer: and you can't afford me. 00:14:22.878 --> 00:14:24.918 Essentially at this point, right? 00:14:25.338 --> 00:14:27.048 Um, so it's not gonna work. 00:14:27.363 --> 00:14:27.783 Brandon Giella: That's right. 00:14:27.873 --> 00:14:28.113 Yeah. 00:14:28.428 --> 00:14:29.628 Paul Spencer: that's also a win-win. 00:14:30.528 --> 00:14:36.028 we can, the other cool thing that is about that is, again you trust me 00:14:36.048 --> 00:14:37.758 because we came to that conclusion 00:14:38.223 --> 00:14:38.523 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:14:38.988 --> 00:14:43.278 Paul Spencer: and then, six months from now, four months from now, I can 00:14:43.278 --> 00:14:45.258 call you and say, Hey, how's it going? 00:14:45.618 --> 00:14:49.578 And you're like, boy, when you get, you get what you pay for. 00:14:50.418 --> 00:14:51.288 yeah, that's right. 00:14:52.773 --> 00:14:57.363 Uh, are you ready to kick up some quality and get back into this? 00:14:57.423 --> 00:14:57.933 Brandon Giella: That's right. 00:14:58.113 --> 00:14:58.443 Paul Spencer: yet. 00:14:58.743 --> 00:14:59.163 Okay. 00:14:59.193 --> 00:15:00.543 I'll call you in three more months. 00:15:00.693 --> 00:15:01.023 Brandon Giella: Hmm, 00:15:01.083 --> 00:15:02.253 Paul Spencer: I'll call you in six months. 00:15:02.493 --> 00:15:02.823 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:15:02.913 --> 00:15:03.213 Paul Spencer: Right. 00:15:03.573 --> 00:15:07.173 That is, that's still part of the negotiating and that's okay. 00:15:07.593 --> 00:15:07.923 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:15:09.093 --> 00:15:12.693 Paul Spencer: Again, just to compare that again, as opposed to you and I 00:15:12.693 --> 00:15:14.793 holding on as tight as we could on each 00:15:14.853 --> 00:15:15.243 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:15:15.693 --> 00:15:16.053 Yeah, 00:15:16.473 --> 00:15:18.243 Paul Spencer: that three months, that six months. 00:15:18.498 --> 00:15:19.728 Just grinding it out 00:15:20.043 --> 00:15:20.523 Brandon Giella: yeah. 00:15:20.928 --> 00:15:23.538 Paul Spencer: each other and, maybe even hate each other's 00:15:23.538 --> 00:15:25.698 guts through that whole process. 00:15:25.698 --> 00:15:26.028 Right. 00:15:26.433 --> 00:15:26.733 Brandon Giella: Well, 00:15:27.168 --> 00:15:30.918 Paul Spencer: there, the, if you think about short term, long term, it's highly 00:15:30.918 --> 00:15:34.698 likely that we're just gonna say we're done working with each other and we will 00:15:34.698 --> 00:15:36.258 never take each other's calls again. 00:15:36.693 --> 00:15:36.963 Brandon Giella: yeah. 00:15:37.413 --> 00:15:37.683 Yeah. 00:15:37.863 --> 00:15:39.543 Which is the worst possible outcome. 00:15:39.708 --> 00:15:40.728 Paul Spencer: That's lose lose. 00:15:40.743 --> 00:15:41.434 Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:15:42.393 --> 00:15:47.103 You mentioned a, a, a part of that is having fun, have fun with negotiation. 00:15:47.673 --> 00:15:48.543 Talk to me about that. 00:15:48.543 --> 00:15:50.823 Like, 'cause that, that, that resonates with me where, okay, 00:15:50.823 --> 00:15:54.693 it's not this, like this bargaining chip that we're pushing around. 00:15:54.693 --> 00:15:56.343 Like, it's like, okay, let's be creative. 00:15:56.343 --> 00:15:58.623 Let's think, let's, let's explore other options that 00:15:58.623 --> 00:15:59.373 we're not even thinking about. 00:15:59.403 --> 00:15:59.643 You know? 00:15:59.643 --> 00:16:01.353 So talk to me a little bit about that. 00:16:01.653 --> 00:16:06.063 Paul Spencer: Well, I would say that, um, negotiating is definitely 00:16:06.123 --> 00:16:08.658 part of sales, but I would say I. 00:16:08.958 --> 00:16:09.408 Hmm. 00:16:10.308 --> 00:16:13.518 all salespeople are good at negotiating, right? 00:16:13.518 --> 00:16:14.118 We may say, 00:16:14.143 --> 00:16:14.423 Brandon Giella: Okay. 00:16:14.688 --> 00:16:17.388 Paul Spencer: sales is good at negotiating, but not, not really. 00:16:17.868 --> 00:16:19.638 Um, some are, some are not. 00:16:21.978 --> 00:16:26.448 and so there's a limiting factor that we put on ourselves, is, oh. 00:16:27.498 --> 00:16:27.768 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:16:27.843 --> 00:16:30.573 Paul Spencer: I gotta go talk to Brandon about this cost cutting thing, and, 00:16:30.618 --> 00:16:31.068 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:16:31.233 --> 00:16:33.153 Paul Spencer: I gotta work out some kind of new agreement and 00:16:33.153 --> 00:16:36.963 it's like, ugh, I'm so terrible at this and I don't like doing it. 00:16:37.213 --> 00:16:37.503 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:16:37.503 --> 00:16:44.403 Paul Spencer: So the fun part, fun part is saying, oh, this'll be fun, right? 00:16:44.463 --> 00:16:44.703 I'm gonna 00:16:44.703 --> 00:16:44.923 Brandon Giella: Yep. 00:16:44.973 --> 00:16:46.833 Paul Spencer: I gotta call with Brandon this afternoon. 00:16:47.013 --> 00:16:48.183 I'm gonna see what he's up to. 00:16:49.143 --> 00:16:55.023 I'm not excited about the opportunity of cutting my cost by 20%. 00:16:55.023 --> 00:16:56.973 My, my, my cost, 00:16:57.073 --> 00:16:57.363 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:16:57.368 --> 00:16:57.528 Yeah. 00:16:58.413 --> 00:17:01.263 Paul Spencer: Um, but I am curious to where he is at and 00:17:01.263 --> 00:17:02.733 there's an opportunity here, 00:17:03.213 --> 00:17:03.603 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:17:04.173 --> 00:17:04.503 Hmm. 00:17:04.563 --> 00:17:09.963 Paul Spencer: And there's an opportunity for us to maybe work in a different way. 00:17:11.133 --> 00:17:13.383 For me to understand more about what he's up to. 00:17:13.383 --> 00:17:17.433 And you know, he and I haven't really talked in a while, and maybe this is a 00:17:17.433 --> 00:17:22.263 good opportunity for us to build some more trust and, and so negotiating 00:17:22.263 --> 00:17:26.193 has to be something that you are willing to just throw out there. 00:17:26.463 --> 00:17:26.793 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:17:27.123 --> 00:17:29.373 Paul Spencer: Let me, this is what I hear you saying, Brandon. 00:17:30.093 --> 00:17:31.443 Let me throw this out there. 00:17:31.683 --> 00:17:34.173 It's, tell me if this is a stupid idea. 00:17:34.833 --> 00:17:43.203 What if, what if we just went ahead and, uh, and did the 20% cut, and then, uh, 00:17:43.203 --> 00:17:48.813 in the next three months we were able to get back to back to whole on our side? 00:17:48.988 --> 00:17:49.408 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:17:49.493 --> 00:17:52.353 Mm-hmm. 00:17:52.593 --> 00:17:52.594 Mm-hmm. 00:17:53.108 --> 00:17:53.528 Mm-hmm. 00:17:53.643 --> 00:17:55.143 Paul Spencer: no, that's not a stupid idea. 00:17:55.533 --> 00:17:56.433 Well, tell me why. 00:17:57.813 --> 00:18:00.603 And I don't know if that, if you're gonna say it's stupid or not. 00:18:01.638 --> 00:18:02.808 I might as well throw it out there. 00:18:02.993 --> 00:18:03.283 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:18:03.288 --> 00:18:03.603 Yeah, yeah. 00:18:04.188 --> 00:18:07.008 Paul Spencer: right, if I do, and you say no, that's not a stupid idea. 00:18:07.008 --> 00:18:07.488 Why? 00:18:07.728 --> 00:18:10.338 Well, because in three months things will change and we'll probably 00:18:10.338 --> 00:18:11.748 be whatever, whatever, right. 00:18:11.748 --> 00:18:12.828 Whatever the narrative is. 00:18:13.368 --> 00:18:15.738 And then now we have a win-win. 00:18:16.218 --> 00:18:20.238 I can get you a, a price cut a few months until you get 00:18:20.598 --> 00:18:21.828 your things in order, and then 00:18:21.858 --> 00:18:21.948 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:18:21.978 --> 00:18:22.428 Paul Spencer: be both. 00:18:22.908 --> 00:18:24.558 We'll go back to normal business. 00:18:24.918 --> 00:18:25.188 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:18:26.058 --> 00:18:30.498 Paul Spencer: So, but you have to, you have to be willing to. 00:18:33.363 --> 00:18:34.623 ideas out there 00:18:34.903 --> 00:18:35.193 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:18:35.253 --> 00:18:39.333 Paul Spencer: and be like, let's have fun with it and see what, see what we get. 00:18:40.293 --> 00:18:41.193 That's the fun part. 00:18:41.988 --> 00:18:44.568 Brandon Giella: That's, it reminds me of, I, I use the phrase like, 00:18:44.568 --> 00:18:45.528 let's just figure this out. 00:18:45.618 --> 00:18:48.078 Like, this is, we can, we can do this, we can figure this out. 00:18:48.138 --> 00:18:49.938 You know, let's, let's put it all out on the table. 00:18:50.088 --> 00:18:51.438 And I like doing that upfront. 00:18:51.438 --> 00:18:54.378 'cause uh, invariably when you're in a conversation, sometimes you have, 00:18:54.798 --> 00:18:56.718 it's a, you know, hour long call. 00:18:56.958 --> 00:19:00.798 You don't get to that real, like, nitty gritty part of the conversation. 00:19:01.248 --> 00:19:04.758 Sometimes until like 45 minutes into the call and then you've got 15 00:19:04.758 --> 00:19:05.898 minutes to kind of work out this thing. 00:19:06.048 --> 00:19:09.138 So just start the call like, Hey look, let's try to figure this out. 00:19:09.138 --> 00:19:10.578 You know, let's be creative about this option. 00:19:10.938 --> 00:19:14.298 But I also, what I hear you say is, is almost like focus 00:19:14.298 --> 00:19:16.008 on the human being behind. 00:19:16.368 --> 00:19:19.788 The relationship or the business deal or, or whatever, where it's like, I 00:19:19.788 --> 00:19:21.498 just wanna hear what, what Paul's up to. 00:19:21.558 --> 00:19:24.648 Like I just wanna figure out like he, he has needs, I have needs. 00:19:24.708 --> 00:19:25.488 Let's talk about this. 00:19:25.488 --> 00:19:27.078 I care about you as a person, you know? 00:19:27.588 --> 00:19:30.468 Um, and so I hear that part of it, which I think is really great too. 00:19:30.468 --> 00:19:32.988 Like, I, I care about you as a person and I wanna hear how can 00:19:32.988 --> 00:19:34.038 we serve each other, you know? 00:19:34.788 --> 00:19:35.178 Paul Spencer: Yeah. 00:19:35.388 --> 00:19:35.808 Yes. 00:19:35.958 --> 00:19:39.408 I, um, I think of it in that way. 00:19:39.888 --> 00:19:43.278 Um, but I mean, you and I may not know each other, right? 00:19:43.518 --> 00:19:43.818 And we 00:19:43.938 --> 00:19:44.268 Brandon Giella: Sure. 00:19:44.268 --> 00:19:45.468 Paul Spencer: our assumptions 00:19:45.783 --> 00:19:46.173 Brandon Giella: Sure. 00:19:47.163 --> 00:19:47.523 Fair. 00:19:47.598 --> 00:19:52.698 Paul Spencer: and we know in our own companies, uh, what we 00:19:52.698 --> 00:19:54.768 talk about each other, right? 00:19:55.323 --> 00:20:00.963 So you have a, um, true or not, uh, opinion and stereotype of my company 00:20:01.263 --> 00:20:01.593 Brandon Giella: Fair. 00:20:01.653 --> 00:20:01.833 Yeah. 00:20:01.833 --> 00:20:03.813 Paul Spencer: and my company does with you, right? 00:20:03.813 --> 00:20:08.403 And we talk about you and your services and what you're up to and whether 00:20:08.403 --> 00:20:09.873 you're easy to work with or not, 00:20:10.113 --> 00:20:10.533 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:20:10.653 --> 00:20:14.223 Paul Spencer: So those things are all part of, those are all 00:20:14.223 --> 00:20:15.723 part of the negotiating, right? 00:20:15.723 --> 00:20:17.403 We, we have to understand that. 00:20:17.553 --> 00:20:18.153 Um. 00:20:18.948 --> 00:20:21.858 And we have to really know whether those are true or not, right? 00:20:21.968 --> 00:20:22.188 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:20:22.248 --> 00:20:23.058 Paul Spencer: assumptions. 00:20:24.198 --> 00:20:28.428 and then, yeah, the only way you're gonna work on making some kind of 00:20:28.428 --> 00:20:30.798 agreement is by talking to each other. 00:20:31.023 --> 00:20:31.263 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:20:31.268 --> 00:20:31.468 Right. 00:20:31.858 --> 00:20:32.148 Yeah. 00:20:32.328 --> 00:20:35.688 Paul Spencer: just to your point, that's a human thing. 00:20:36.948 --> 00:20:40.878 And if we get irritated or if you don't treat me well, or if you're 00:20:40.878 --> 00:20:45.228 arrogant about it, um, that's gonna make the negotiation even harder. 00:20:45.588 --> 00:20:45.828 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:20:46.158 --> 00:20:46.458 Yeah. 00:20:48.018 --> 00:20:52.248 So in, in the last few minutes here, I want to, I want to cover some like. 00:20:52.623 --> 00:20:57.453 You've got a, a section of this article that you wrote, uh, about practical tips. 00:20:57.543 --> 00:21:01.293 So again, entering into this age of transition, things look very different. 00:21:01.863 --> 00:21:04.803 There's a lot of negotiation that's gonna be happening in the future. 00:21:05.103 --> 00:21:07.503 And so you've got these five, um, tips. 00:21:07.503 --> 00:21:08.883 We've covered some of them. 00:21:09.423 --> 00:21:14.463 Um, but essentially number one is practice reflective listening and 00:21:14.463 --> 00:21:16.113 then know who you're talking to. 00:21:16.968 --> 00:21:19.038 Take breaks when emotions run high. 00:21:19.038 --> 00:21:23.628 Speaking to the, the human side of things, consider the relationship value 00:21:23.808 --> 00:21:27.798 thinking long term, not short term, and then be creative with the terms. 00:21:27.798 --> 00:21:30.858 So we kind of covered, covered those, but one I don't think we really talked 00:21:30.918 --> 00:21:33.498 about was know who you're talking to. 00:21:33.828 --> 00:21:40.458 So some part of the negotiations, um, uh, the, the first step you mentioned like 00:21:40.458 --> 00:21:44.388 the Sandler Sandler sales methodology is. 00:21:44.778 --> 00:21:46.398 Know, know who you're talking to. 00:21:46.428 --> 00:21:47.268 Are you the buyer? 00:21:47.328 --> 00:21:48.018 Do you have budget? 00:21:48.018 --> 00:21:48.708 Are you the buyer? 00:21:48.708 --> 00:21:49.788 Are you the decision maker? 00:21:49.788 --> 00:21:50.868 Can you help me with this? 00:21:50.868 --> 00:21:51.678 You know, that kind of thing. 00:21:51.678 --> 00:21:52.488 So, so talk to me. 00:21:52.488 --> 00:21:58.068 So in, in those five, you know, um, tips that number two seems pretty important. 00:21:58.248 --> 00:21:58.638 Uh. 00:21:58.788 --> 00:22:04.608 Paul Spencer: So, um, it depends on the, the makeup of, of who you're 00:22:04.728 --> 00:22:06.228 dealing with, meaning the business. 00:22:06.348 --> 00:22:11.598 So let's say it's a customer uh, you get a call from the customer. 00:22:12.408 --> 00:22:16.098 And they say, um, need to, we need to cut. 00:22:16.128 --> 00:22:18.018 We'll just keep using the prices analogy. 00:22:18.168 --> 00:22:18.458 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:22:18.463 --> 00:22:18.633 Yeah. 00:22:18.798 --> 00:22:19.848 Paul Spencer: need to cut prices. 00:22:19.908 --> 00:22:23.628 Your, your cost, our cost by, by 15%. 00:22:24.618 --> 00:22:28.428 And then, uh, so then you schedule a call with that person. 00:22:30.078 --> 00:22:37.548 you need, you need to understand who that person is and, uh, is it them 00:22:37.728 --> 00:22:39.978 that's figuring out what the cost. 00:22:41.013 --> 00:22:41.193 do 00:22:41.253 --> 00:22:41.943 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:22:42.063 --> 00:22:45.453 Paul Spencer: figure out the 15% or were they told the 15%? 00:22:45.843 --> 00:22:48.093 How did they arrive to the 15%? 00:22:48.543 --> 00:22:54.933 What, what is their thinking about a 15% versus a 20% versus a 10%? 00:22:55.893 --> 00:22:58.293 Uh, those are all the things that you need to know. 00:22:59.043 --> 00:23:00.603 makeup of that person, what's their 00:23:00.648 --> 00:23:00.948 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:23:01.398 --> 00:23:01.788 Hmm. 00:23:02.133 --> 00:23:06.783 Paul Spencer: because a lot of times that person making that call is, is 00:23:06.813 --> 00:23:09.393 maybe a procurement officer, right? 00:23:09.453 --> 00:23:15.213 Or maybe an inventory manager or maybe a, a VP of some sort, maybe 00:23:15.213 --> 00:23:20.103 a VP of operations or, um, client services, vendor management, right? 00:23:22.143 --> 00:23:27.903 they may be being told that that number, and go figure this out with Paul. 00:23:28.878 --> 00:23:32.898 And they don't really know maybe much of the background, or maybe they may 00:23:32.898 --> 00:23:37.218 know the background, but they don't have any authority to negotiate. 00:23:38.028 --> 00:23:38.088 Brandon Giella: Mm. 00:23:38.388 --> 00:23:38.688 Paul Spencer: Right. 00:23:38.958 --> 00:23:44.268 So for you to be able to have the conversation, you have to know Brandon 00:23:44.268 --> 00:23:47.958 is and, and if I don't know, that's one of the first things I'm gonna ask 00:23:48.438 --> 00:23:50.628 is, how did you arrive at the 15%? 00:23:53.268 --> 00:23:54.438 And I just, right. 00:23:54.558 --> 00:23:54.798 And I 00:23:54.933 --> 00:23:56.673 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:23:56.674 --> 00:23:56.675 Mm-hmm. 00:23:56.676 --> 00:23:56.677 Mm-hmm. 00:23:56.703 --> 00:24:04.083 Paul Spencer: normally, uh, you really know or not, I can just tell by the 00:24:04.083 --> 00:24:05.853 way you answer the question, right? 00:24:06.033 --> 00:24:07.353 And your body language and all that. 00:24:07.353 --> 00:24:11.973 Hopefully you can do a in person you can do it on a Zoom call, right? 00:24:12.903 --> 00:24:18.753 Um, and then if you get a sense that, uh, maybe you were told the 15%. 00:24:19.608 --> 00:24:22.578 Then I may ask some questions based on what, what your answer is. 00:24:22.783 --> 00:24:23.003 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:24:23.178 --> 00:24:24.048 Paul Spencer: me more about that. 00:24:24.768 --> 00:24:25.428 me more about that. 00:24:25.428 --> 00:24:31.368 Well, are you aware that that is not related to the service that we provide? 00:24:31.398 --> 00:24:35.358 Actually, our service will make that better for you if you 00:24:35.578 --> 00:24:35.798 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:24:35.808 --> 00:24:40.008 Paul Spencer: service away, that'll make that one thing actually worse, 00:24:40.008 --> 00:24:41.808 which will cost you even more money. 00:24:41.888 --> 00:24:42.308 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:24:42.393 --> 00:24:42.603 Mm-hmm. 00:24:43.038 --> 00:24:43.338 Paul Spencer: Right? 00:24:43.488 --> 00:24:45.468 So anyway, if you're having that conversation and 00:24:45.468 --> 00:24:46.818 this person is not in the. 00:24:47.133 --> 00:24:52.563 In the influential then you need to change the negotiation. 00:24:52.563 --> 00:24:56.163 It's not a negotiation at that point about cost cut. 00:24:56.653 --> 00:24:56.853 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:24:56.913 --> 00:25:02.523 Paul Spencer: a negotiation about how we can work together to get 00:25:02.613 --> 00:25:07.623 in the same room with the person who told you to make the 15% cut. 00:25:08.613 --> 00:25:08.943 Right. 00:25:09.243 --> 00:25:10.743 Because it's only at that point 00:25:10.813 --> 00:25:11.103 Brandon Giella: Yeah, 00:25:12.363 --> 00:25:17.253 Paul Spencer: Paul can make a negotiating win-win proposal, right? 00:25:17.253 --> 00:25:17.703 Brandon Giella: that's right. 00:25:17.943 --> 00:25:23.373 Paul Spencer: in the end, the only way that this is going to end up is you win. 00:25:23.373 --> 00:25:32.373 I lose because you are given this cut, probably some different criteria, right? 00:25:32.373 --> 00:25:34.218 You're not gonna negotiate it on it. 00:25:34.218 --> 00:25:39.213 And no matter what I say or do with you as part of my negotiating, you don't 00:25:39.213 --> 00:25:41.013 have the authority to say yes or no. 00:25:41.373 --> 00:25:42.588 Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:25:42.903 --> 00:25:46.533 Paul Spencer: opportunity I have is to say, take the deal or, or not, 00:25:46.888 --> 00:25:48.298 Brandon Giella: yeah, yeah. 00:25:48.453 --> 00:25:48.903 Paul Spencer: win. 00:25:49.023 --> 00:25:50.913 I, there's no win-win in that situation. 00:25:51.183 --> 00:25:53.793 So there's no point on me even having the conversation. 00:25:53.838 --> 00:25:54.128 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:25:54.183 --> 00:25:56.643 Paul Spencer: the conversation to learn more about it, but 00:25:56.643 --> 00:25:58.053 eventually I need to learn. 00:25:58.233 --> 00:26:03.663 How do I negotiate to the, the, stakeholder, the highest stakeholder 00:26:03.663 --> 00:26:06.393 that we can have a conversation so that we can get to the win-win. 00:26:08.523 --> 00:26:10.098 Brandon Giella: What this reminds me of is. 00:26:10.688 --> 00:26:14.048 I have listened to a lot of Charlie Munger in my day. 00:26:14.138 --> 00:26:17.318 Uh, so Charlie Munger is a business partner of, of Warren Buffet, 00:26:17.618 --> 00:26:19.478 late business partner, a legend. 00:26:20.168 --> 00:26:24.248 Uh, he would always say that the number one thing you can learn 00:26:24.248 --> 00:26:25.658 in business was psychology. 00:26:26.348 --> 00:26:29.378 And he said if he could go back and if he could study one 00:26:29.378 --> 00:26:30.758 thing, it would be psychology. 00:26:31.088 --> 00:26:36.338 And everything you're describing is that in these negotiation conversations, 00:26:36.338 --> 00:26:39.548 it is so human, psychological. 00:26:39.903 --> 00:26:41.793 You know, there's just so much going on in there. 00:26:42.303 --> 00:26:44.583 Uh, with those conversations, there's obviously that you need to know your 00:26:44.583 --> 00:26:48.513 business and margins and what you can do and not do and all that sort of thing, but 00:26:48.513 --> 00:26:49.923 there's just so much psychology in there. 00:26:50.113 --> 00:26:50.403 Paul Spencer: Yeah. 00:26:50.408 --> 00:26:50.508 Yeah. 00:26:50.988 --> 00:26:55.788 So Deming, uh, the Deming, uh, system of profound knowledge, 00:26:55.928 --> 00:26:56.348 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:26:57.108 --> 00:26:59.118 Paul Spencer: thing that we use with when we're thinking about our 00:26:59.548 --> 00:26:59.968 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:27:00.228 --> 00:27:02.388 Paul Spencer: One of those is psychology. 00:27:02.628 --> 00:27:02.848 Brandon Giella: Hm. 00:27:04.053 --> 00:27:07.473 Paul Spencer: And so, uh, you have awareness of the system, right? 00:27:07.593 --> 00:27:11.313 You understand variation, you understand theory of knowledge, and then you 00:27:11.313 --> 00:27:16.743 understand psychology because, uh, you may have systems like what we've talked about, 00:27:16.743 --> 00:27:23.103 processes in place, but you have to also un understand psychology and the people. 00:27:23.553 --> 00:27:25.203 That are running the systems, 00:27:25.323 --> 00:27:25.803 Brandon Giella: That's right. 00:27:25.953 --> 00:27:28.323 Paul Spencer: Because everything that we just talked just now about 00:27:28.323 --> 00:27:34.323 negotiating and, and, uh, developing a win-win opportunity or agreement 00:27:34.503 --> 00:27:34.923 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:27:35.163 --> 00:27:37.563 Paul Spencer: our customer a process. 00:27:38.388 --> 00:27:38.448 Brandon Giella: Hmm 00:27:38.613 --> 00:27:43.983 Paul Spencer: Um, and in that case, it's uh, super critical. 00:27:43.983 --> 00:27:47.883 You understand psychology in order for that process to work. 00:27:48.558 --> 00:27:48.768 Brandon Giella: hmm. 00:27:49.143 --> 00:27:53.793 Paul Spencer: We're not in the, we're not in the, in the, um, furniture making 00:27:53.793 --> 00:27:57.453 process where you just need to know how to operate the gun in the mill, 00:27:57.618 --> 00:27:58.248 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:27:58.248 --> 00:27:58.308 Yeah. 00:27:58.308 --> 00:27:58.309 Yeah. 00:27:58.533 --> 00:28:01.143 Paul Spencer: the drill in the mill right here. 00:28:01.143 --> 00:28:03.213 I have to understand how you work. 00:28:04.038 --> 00:28:04.908 As a human. 00:28:05.058 --> 00:28:09.258 And then I also have to understand how you work as a person, as an individual, 00:28:09.573 --> 00:28:09.843 Brandon Giella: Mm. 00:28:09.888 --> 00:28:12.378 Paul Spencer: and the things, what your role is, right? 00:28:12.393 --> 00:28:12.933 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:28:13.068 --> 00:28:16.608 Paul Spencer: think about things and are you willing to negotiate and right. 00:28:16.638 --> 00:28:17.658 All those things. 00:28:17.748 --> 00:28:20.088 Uh, in order to get to a win-win, you have to. 00:28:20.988 --> 00:28:23.928 you're not gonna, you're not gonna succeed in a win-win. 00:28:25.548 --> 00:28:27.948 Brandon Giella: Thank you for my, uh, monthly reminder that 00:28:27.948 --> 00:28:31.218 I need to study dimming in the system of profound knowledge. 00:28:31.518 --> 00:28:34.248 'cause I feel like every time I talk to you, it's like, no, this is a system. 00:28:34.308 --> 00:28:36.588 Go back, like, to go what our first principles, you know, 00:28:36.588 --> 00:28:38.208 think about this in, in totality, 00:28:38.538 --> 00:28:38.868 Paul Spencer: Yeah. 00:28:39.288 --> 00:28:39.768 Brandon Giella: very helpful. 00:28:40.068 --> 00:28:42.918 Paul Spencer: I think, uh, just, I know we talked about this at the beginning, 00:28:42.918 --> 00:28:48.648 but everything we just talked about would, is a normal input, a normal 00:28:48.648 --> 00:28:51.048 process for a resilient business. 00:28:51.048 --> 00:28:52.308 It's we do, 00:28:52.553 --> 00:28:52.973 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:28:53.058 --> 00:28:53.688 Paul Spencer: we operate. 00:28:54.078 --> 00:29:00.498 So, um, if you're not, if you don't feel like you would score yourself as high. 00:29:01.293 --> 00:29:04.173 In negotiating either internal or external. 00:29:05.133 --> 00:29:06.333 then it's something to work on. 00:29:06.333 --> 00:29:06.483 It's 00:29:06.733 --> 00:29:07.023 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:29:07.353 --> 00:29:07.683 Paul Spencer: about, 00:29:08.083 --> 00:29:08.373 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:29:08.613 --> 00:29:13.923 Paul Spencer: so many things out there, um, to learn on, um, on negotiating. 00:29:13.983 --> 00:29:14.523 There's so 00:29:14.538 --> 00:29:14.618 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:29:14.703 --> 00:29:15.333 Paul Spencer: things out there. 00:29:15.808 --> 00:29:16.098 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:29:16.233 --> 00:29:17.973 Paul Spencer: and just by touching it just a little bit, 00:29:17.973 --> 00:29:19.533 you'll, you'll improve, right? 00:29:20.193 --> 00:29:25.953 But the, the main point of our conversation is that it's going to 00:29:25.953 --> 00:29:28.803 be hypercritical that you understand. 00:29:29.208 --> 00:29:34.728 Psychology and you understand your negotiating process because there are 00:29:34.728 --> 00:29:37.038 going to be a lot of things shifting 00:29:37.443 --> 00:29:37.743 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:29:37.908 --> 00:29:40.068 Paul Spencer: people are gonna be finding their partners. 00:29:40.398 --> 00:29:40.728 Brandon Giella: Mm 00:29:40.728 --> 00:29:44.508 Paul Spencer: the, and it's, it's like when you are a school kid, right? 00:29:44.868 --> 00:29:46.638 And we're picking dodgeball teams. 00:29:46.638 --> 00:29:46.788 If 00:29:46.878 --> 00:29:47.178 Brandon Giella: mm. 00:29:47.538 --> 00:29:49.548 Paul Spencer: if you don't make your kickball teams right, and 00:29:49.548 --> 00:29:52.458 if you don't make your pick, if you don't move fast, right? 00:29:52.728 --> 00:29:53.148 You're like, ugh. 00:29:54.078 --> 00:29:54.378 Brandon Giella: Yep. 00:29:54.558 --> 00:29:55.038 Paul Spencer: Geez. 00:29:55.848 --> 00:29:55.938 Brandon Giella: Yep. 00:29:56.058 --> 00:29:59.688 Paul Spencer: don't wanna, you wanna be able to have the skill the, and 00:29:59.688 --> 00:30:05.268 the, the, the presence to be able to make these agreements and to be able 00:30:05.268 --> 00:30:09.348 to move, constantly on your negotiating 00:30:09.573 --> 00:30:09.933 Brandon Giella: Hmm, 00:30:09.948 --> 00:30:11.808 Paul Spencer: it, it's going to be necessary. 00:30:12.423 --> 00:30:12.843 Brandon Giella: that's right. 00:30:13.443 --> 00:30:18.033 It's, it seems like everything's off the table for the next period, 10 years. 00:30:18.033 --> 00:30:18.393 I don't know. 00:30:18.453 --> 00:30:19.863 You know, whatever it might look like, but 00:30:19.923 --> 00:30:21.033 Paul Spencer: the timeframe is, but 00:30:21.063 --> 00:30:21.453 Brandon Giella: yeah. 00:30:21.603 --> 00:30:24.723 Paul Spencer: uh, if you, going back to the fun aspect. 00:30:25.413 --> 00:30:25.683 Brandon Giella: Yeah, 00:30:26.418 --> 00:30:30.558 Paul Spencer: and I, and just to, just to go back, this is not to be flippant about 00:30:30.618 --> 00:30:32.658 the seriousness of running the business 00:30:32.733 --> 00:30:33.183 Brandon Giella: of course. 00:30:33.183 --> 00:30:33.333 Yeah. 00:30:33.438 --> 00:30:35.058 Paul Spencer: having employees and, 00:30:35.373 --> 00:30:36.393 Brandon Giella: We're all feeling it. 00:30:36.393 --> 00:30:36.723 Yeah. 00:30:36.738 --> 00:30:40.068 Paul Spencer: back for 20% and that's gonna be a, a big 00:30:40.068 --> 00:30:41.448 disruption to our business and 00:30:41.478 --> 00:30:41.898 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:30:42.468 --> 00:30:43.068 Paul Spencer: and all that. 00:30:43.398 --> 00:30:45.378 Yes, of course. 00:30:45.498 --> 00:30:50.928 However, if we can still be fun with our negotiating and we can 00:30:50.928 --> 00:30:54.708 get improvement into our skills on what that process looks like. 00:30:55.203 --> 00:31:02.073 Right then we improve and we elevate, and it only sets us up for more success 00:31:02.373 --> 00:31:02.613 Brandon Giella: That's right. 00:31:02.793 --> 00:31:03.513 Paul Spencer: success. 00:31:03.573 --> 00:31:09.603 And there may be a time where our business is doing today is completely 00:31:09.603 --> 00:31:13.443 different than what we, than what we're gonna be doing in six years. 00:31:13.623 --> 00:31:13.923 Brandon Giella: Yeah. 00:31:14.853 --> 00:31:20.853 Paul Spencer: we naturally, as a resilient business shifted and pivoted and did 00:31:20.853 --> 00:31:24.513 our feedback loops and negotiated, and we ended up in the optimal. 00:31:24.963 --> 00:31:25.353 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:31:25.548 --> 00:31:29.988 Paul Spencer: And our business is now operating, thriving because we 00:31:29.988 --> 00:31:33.558 didn't just sit here and try to figure out how we get this thing to work. 00:31:34.698 --> 00:31:35.058 Brandon Giella: That's right. 00:31:35.238 --> 00:31:39.378 Paul Spencer: and that's the negotiating again, is just an important input into 00:31:39.978 --> 00:31:41.238 Brandon Giella: Hmm, hmm, 00:31:41.238 --> 00:31:42.198 Paul Spencer: a turbulent time. 00:31:42.438 --> 00:31:42.558 Brandon Giella: hmm. 00:31:43.338 --> 00:31:45.558 Paul Spencer: Unpredictable time probably is a better way of saying it. 00:31:46.248 --> 00:31:46.578 Brandon Giella: Amen. 00:31:46.698 --> 00:31:47.058 Amen. 00:31:48.168 --> 00:31:52.008 I'll close with that 'cause that's exactly, exactly right and it's something 00:31:52.008 --> 00:31:53.478 I definitely could get better at. 00:31:53.508 --> 00:31:53.928 So thank you. 00:31:54.558 --> 00:31:56.568 As always, for your wisdom and expertise. 00:31:57.648 --> 00:32:00.498 Well, that'll do it, Paul. 00:32:00.498 --> 00:32:01.698 We'll see you next time. 00:32:01.798 --> 00:32:02.328 Talk soon. 00:32:02.373 --> 00:32:02.583 Paul Spencer: you. 00:32:02.673 --> 00:32:02.943 Yep. 00:32:03.183 --> 00:32:03.453 Bye.