Welcome to Resilience Talk hosted by Paul Spencer of Second Nature Solutions.
Let's dive in.
Brandon Giella: Hello Paul, and welcome back to another episode
of the Resilience Talk podcast.
This will be an interesting one because we are gonna talk about negotiation
and there are, uh, a lot of ways to, to, I guess, discuss that topic, but.
In light of last episode.
So last episode we talked about this age of transition that we
are entering into and how you can thrive in that age of transition.
And you got some feedback, by the way, on that episode that I'm
excited to share in the newsletter.
But um, but as we're entering into this age of transition, you are
making the argument, Paul, that.
This is not like a previous big cataclysmic event like 2008 and things
got hairy for a little while, but more or less we returned to normal
Paul Spencer: Mm-hmm.
Brandon Giella: after I.
Paul Spencer: Yep.
Brandon Giella: is a big, hairy cataclysmic event that, uh, we
are in this period where it is actually fundamentally changing.
It's not an incremental change.
It's a categorical change.
It's a, it's a big change that we're entering into, and so to
create a resilient business within this new age that we're entering
into for many different reasons.
One of them being tariffs, one of them being technology.
You know, there's a number of different events that are happening.
Negotiation is a very important part of becoming a resilient business.
But you argue it's not just negotiation in sales and around pricing,
though, that is a big component.
It's, it's negotiation around a lot of different things.
But I wanna start with.
Um, negotiation as it does relate to the sales and pricing and things like that.
Maybe that is a good place to start because you have mentioned, um, that
maybe some of your customers are experiencing this kind of like, um, you
know, you're getting calls of, Hey, can you reduce your price by 20% or 50%?
Like, we're going through this crazy time, and then there's maybe skills
around that that we can talk about.
How do you handle that conversation?
So before we get into all of that, can you talk very briefly about what you,
how you see negotiation as a, a component of a resilient business within this age
of transition that we're entering into?
Paul Spencer: So, so negotiating is.
An input into a resilient business.
So regardless if we were going through the age of transition here, right,
uh, normally we would want to be good negotiators, and I would say probably
a lot of, a lot of you listening are, are fairly decent at negotiating anyway.
Um, but it's gonna be even more critical, um, as we go forward.
As, as you mentioned, right, in 2008 is it is just an example.
If we look backwards, right?
It's always easy to look backwards.
In 2008 is a, is a pretty big event.
Um, and we had a big financial crisis and for some industries and some businesses
that was more catastrophic than others.
Um, and it definitely affected the economy and everything that was going on
around us, um, but eventually went away.
Right.
Um, I can use air quotes in that.
There's lots of, side effects that
Brandon Giella: Yes, yes, of course.
Paul Spencer: but we, we did get back to essentially normal.
Um, and we went on, we went on our way, right?
And so we can negotiate in that way.
Um, so here, just proposing that because we are in this transition period that.
It's going to be difficult to understand what will be normal the back end of this,
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: maybe it won't be as dramatic as, as I'm playing it out.
Maybe it'll be nearly the same, but likely it's gonna be very different.
And so because of that, um, this is where the negotiating aspect comes in
to be pretty critical, to be able to understand how I am going to negotiate,
win-win opportunities with my customers.
With my suppliers, with my vendors.
And then we also talk about, um, 'cause we always think about.
Negotiating as a sales tactic,
It's a sales strategy and yes, it's part of sales, um, but we also have it,
um, in other aspects of our business.
We have it internally,
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: So when we have, um, our executive suite,
right, uh, our leadership team.
We are always negotiating with each other on where we're going strategically
and what are we gonna be working on.
Um, and maybe we even have business partners, ownership partners.
Um, there's negotiation inside there.
Um, there could be.
Different business partners were two entities, share some kind of product
or maybe they're working together, um, to build a, uh, a unique product.
And there's a, there's a partnership as part of that.
Um, so anyway, as stakeholders, shareholders, internal customers, external
customers, we are constantly negotiating
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: it's important that we, we.
Um, think of that as a skill that we want to elevate ourselves into.
We want to, we wanna get good at understanding how to negotiate and not
to take it in a personal way, and to be able to navigate the give and take
of, um, coming to a win-win situation.
Brandon Giella: Got it.
I want to talk about how you actually do that.
Like what are some ways that you think about negotiation for win-win?
I know you've got some tips on that, maybe some methodologies.
There's a, uh, one that you mentioned in a, in a video that you created.
Um, but before we get there, um, you talk about, um, this kind of period
that we're in and some feel, some folks feeling this kind of price sensitivity.
If you could say, so you've got customers, you've got people in your network,
um, where their, their customers are feeling this kind of pressure given
the tariff environment, economic environment that we find ourselves in.
Yeah.
Talk, talk a little bit about that.
Paul Spencer: Um, yeah, so,
as always within our business it sometimes it's hard to separate the noise.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: Um, so we've got the backdrop of the tariffs and, uh, and
then every, every article, probably every headline, maybe a month ago, it's all
about we're going into a recession and the market was crashing and all of that.
And then so when you get customers coming to you saying,
Hey, can we work on the price?
Your price?
Can we cut?
We're looking to cut our costs and you're in that cost bucket
can we, uh, can we drop 10%?
Can we drop 20%?
Right?
Um, so then we ask ourselves, oh, is that because of
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: what's going on?
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: and we don't know that unless we ask.
Um, but that's part of the negotiating is, ah, yeah, that's interesting.
like that.
Right.
It's interesting.
You wanna cut our, cut your cost by 10% and we're in that bucket.
Um, would you propose we do that, right?
It's a great way
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: opening up.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: tell me more about the, the costs and the, the other types of costs
that are in the bucket that we're in.
Uh, so you're, you're just listening and then you ask a question based
on what they're telling you.
And then you don't talk.
Brandon Giella: Hmm mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
No, this is your first step in, in the win-win mindset is listen
more than I talk, so I love that.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: Right.
Uh, because the reason for that is a couple of things is the
more I listen to you and the more I, I respond in a positive way.
That I'm listening and that I hear what you're saying.
then the more I ask more, tell me more questions,
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: tell me more about that.
What?
does that mean for you?
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: me understand how I can help you,
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: and then just let them talk.
The more you do that, the more they feel like they're being listened to and when
they feel like they're being listened to.
Uh.
They're trusting you, right?
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: we could take it, um, and move it a, as a comparison, Which
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: a combative position, right?
So you, Brandon, may feel that you're the procurement officer at
Customer X, and now you're calling Paul, who's the owner of whatever.
And you say thinking, as soon as I mention this to Paul, gonna come at me.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: gonna come up with all kinds of excuses why he's not gonna drop it
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: not even a dime, right?
And so what you do, and part of your preparation with your call with
me, you think of all the defensive measures you're going to take,
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: So you're putting your guard up you're gonna actually,
you're getting your, your, um.
even your anxiety up about the call and you're, you're planning to go to battle.
Right.
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: And when I disarm that by saying, oh, interesting.
Tell me more about that.
Yeah.
That's not a, that's not a, uh, a fun situation.
We've been through this before.
Um, what are your, what are your expenses?
What are you feeling?
Is this some right?
And then you
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: you could ask lots of different questions
just based on what you tell me.
I
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: a phrase or a couple of words,
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: Right?
So anyway, I'm building trust and plus I'm learning more about your
situation that, um, I can help fashion a win-win opportunity.
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: Without that, we're not going to arrive to a win-win.
And what's, what are the other alternatives?
Lose win.
Meaning I lose.
You Win or, uh, win lose.
I win.
You lose.
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: and if we have that kind of deal or an agreement by the time
we're done, then one of us feels, uh.
Not happy about the situation and maybe even taken advantage of.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: that doesn't feel good.
And it wears on our trust with each other.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: And it wouldn't be surprising that if I was the one who
won and you lost you're my customer that six months from now, you give me
a call and say, we found somebody else.
We're done.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: You're not even gonna ask me for a price cut.
You're done.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: Because you've been sore.
About the, the situation.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: negotiating doesn't always mean that you arrive to a win-win and
everybody's happy and skipping around.
I mean, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's not all that.
Um, but you have to, you have to go through the negotiating
process, in order to be resilient,
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: If you, if you take that across.
five or six of your customers that are asking you those types of questions
and you negotiate those deals in a, in an honest win-win way, that has
long, that has longevity for you,
Brandon Giella: That's a resilient business
Paul Spencer: As opposed to making sure I hold on to each one of those five or
six, I'm gonna hold onto as much as I can.
Brandon Giella: Hmm,
Paul Spencer: and I work those agreements.
Um, I'm actually jeopardizing.
Maybe all of them
in
Brandon Giella: in
Paul Spencer: the short term.
Right?
Definitely in the long term.
Brandon Giella: I, I like that distinction that you would think that in
a negotiation like that you are, let's say, getting more revenue per client.
It means more cash flow, it means more resilience.
But what you're arguing is a non-monetary kind of resilience where that trust that
you're building up, or I shouldn't say non, non-monetary 'cause it is eventually
monetary long-term relationship.
So a trust is a higher outcome.
Yeah.
Okay.
I like where you're going with that.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: uh, if you, if you focus on the money, uh, you will, you'll, you have
an opportunity to skip the trust building
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: Um, if you focus on building trust in a win-win negotiation,
then in theory, again, the outcome will be a better monetary situation.
Brandon Giella: I think there's a proverb that says, I think there's
a proverb that says Wealth gained in haste will soon come to ruin.
Yeah.
Yeah, I like that.
Hmm,
Paul Spencer: So, um, another part of the negotiating is just knowing
that, uh, we can't get to a win-win.
Brandon Giella: hmm hmm.
Paul Spencer: um, and because of that, then there's probably no
reason to have any kind of agreement,
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
It's not gonna
Paul Spencer: serve you, it's not gonna serve me.
And so, We'll just separate ways, right?
We, we'll, we'll, either if you're a current customer,
maybe we'll wind it down.
We'll agree to wind it down.
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: because again, that may be the win-win,
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: right?
Which is, let's just call it quits.
Not in a mean way,
We can't
Brandon Giella: Yeah,
Paul Spencer: get to a place that I can't support your cost cutting needs
because it's not gonna work for me and my business and my model.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: and you can't afford me.
Essentially at this point, right?
Um, so it's not gonna work.
Brandon Giella: That's right.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: that's also a win-win.
we can, the other cool thing that is about that is, again you trust me
because we came to that conclusion
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: and then, six months from now, four months from now, I can
call you and say, Hey, how's it going?
And you're like, boy, when you get, you get what you pay for.
yeah, that's right.
Uh, are you ready to kick up some quality and get back into this?
Brandon Giella: That's right.
Paul Spencer: yet.
Okay.
I'll call you in three more months.
Brandon Giella: Hmm,
Paul Spencer: I'll call you in six months.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: Right.
That is, that's still part of the negotiating and that's okay.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: Again, just to compare that again, as opposed to you and I
holding on as tight as we could on each
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah,
Paul Spencer: that three months, that six months.
Just grinding it out
Brandon Giella: yeah.
Paul Spencer: each other and, maybe even hate each other's
guts through that whole process.
Right.
Brandon Giella: Well,
Paul Spencer: there, the, if you think about short term, long term, it's highly
likely that we're just gonna say we're done working with each other and we will
never take each other's calls again.
Brandon Giella: yeah.
Yeah.
Which is the worst possible outcome.
Paul Spencer: That's lose lose.
Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You mentioned a, a, a part of that is having fun, have fun with negotiation.
Talk to me about that.
Like, 'cause that, that, that resonates with me where, okay,
it's not this, like this bargaining chip that we're pushing around.
Like, it's like, okay, let's be creative.
Let's think, let's, let's explore other options that
we're not even thinking about.
You know?
So talk to me a little bit about that.
Paul Spencer: Well, I would say that, um, negotiating is definitely
part of sales, but I would say I.
Hmm.
all salespeople are good at negotiating, right?
We may say,
Brandon Giella: Okay.
Paul Spencer: sales is good at negotiating, but not, not really.
Um, some are, some are not.
and so there's a limiting factor that we put on ourselves, is, oh.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: I gotta go talk to Brandon about this cost cutting thing, and,
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: I gotta work out some kind of new agreement and
it's like, ugh, I'm so terrible at this and I don't like doing it.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: So the fun part, fun part is saying, oh, this'll be fun, right?
I'm gonna
Brandon Giella: Yep.
Paul Spencer: I gotta call with Brandon this afternoon.
I'm gonna see what he's up to.
I'm not excited about the opportunity of cutting my cost by 20%.
My, my, my cost,
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: Um, but I am curious to where he is at and
there's an opportunity here,
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Hmm.
Paul Spencer: And there's an opportunity for us to maybe work in a different way.
For me to understand more about what he's up to.
And you know, he and I haven't really talked in a while, and maybe this is a
good opportunity for us to build some more trust and, and so negotiating
has to be something that you are willing to just throw out there.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: Let me, this is what I hear you saying, Brandon.
Let me throw this out there.
It's, tell me if this is a stupid idea.
What if, what if we just went ahead and, uh, and did the 20% cut, and then, uh,
in the next three months we were able to get back to back to whole on our side?
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: no, that's not a stupid idea.
Well, tell me why.
And I don't know if that, if you're gonna say it's stupid or not.
I might as well throw it out there.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Paul Spencer: right, if I do, and you say no, that's not a stupid idea.
Why?
Well, because in three months things will change and we'll probably
be whatever, whatever, right.
Whatever the narrative is.
And then now we have a win-win.
I can get you a, a price cut a few months until you get
your things in order, and then
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: be both.
We'll go back to normal business.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: So, but you have to, you have to be willing to.
ideas out there
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: and be like, let's have fun with it and see what, see what we get.
That's the fun part.
Brandon Giella: That's, it reminds me of, I, I use the phrase like,
let's just figure this out.
Like, this is, we can, we can do this, we can figure this out.
You know, let's, let's put it all out on the table.
And I like doing that upfront.
'cause uh, invariably when you're in a conversation, sometimes you have,
it's a, you know, hour long call.
You don't get to that real, like, nitty gritty part of the conversation.
Sometimes until like 45 minutes into the call and then you've got 15
minutes to kind of work out this thing.
So just start the call like, Hey look, let's try to figure this out.
You know, let's be creative about this option.
But I also, what I hear you say is, is almost like focus
on the human being behind.
The relationship or the business deal or, or whatever, where it's like, I
just wanna hear what, what Paul's up to.
Like I just wanna figure out like he, he has needs, I have needs.
Let's talk about this.
I care about you as a person, you know?
Um, and so I hear that part of it, which I think is really great too.
Like, I, I care about you as a person and I wanna hear how can
we serve each other, you know?
Paul Spencer: Yeah.
Yes.
I, um, I think of it in that way.
Um, but I mean, you and I may not know each other, right?
And we
Brandon Giella: Sure.
Paul Spencer: our assumptions
Brandon Giella: Sure.
Fair.
Paul Spencer: and we know in our own companies, uh, what we
talk about each other, right?
So you have a, um, true or not, uh, opinion and stereotype of my company
Brandon Giella: Fair.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: and my company does with you, right?
And we talk about you and your services and what you're up to and whether
you're easy to work with or not,
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: So those things are all part of, those are all
part of the negotiating, right?
We, we have to understand that.
Um.
And we have to really know whether those are true or not, right?
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: assumptions.
and then, yeah, the only way you're gonna work on making some kind of
agreement is by talking to each other.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: just to your point, that's a human thing.
And if we get irritated or if you don't treat me well, or if you're
arrogant about it, um, that's gonna make the negotiation even harder.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah.
So in, in the last few minutes here, I want to, I want to cover some like.
You've got a, a section of this article that you wrote, uh, about practical tips.
So again, entering into this age of transition, things look very different.
There's a lot of negotiation that's gonna be happening in the future.
And so you've got these five, um, tips.
We've covered some of them.
Um, but essentially number one is practice reflective listening and
then know who you're talking to.
Take breaks when emotions run high.
Speaking to the, the human side of things, consider the relationship value
thinking long term, not short term, and then be creative with the terms.
So we kind of covered, covered those, but one I don't think we really talked
about was know who you're talking to.
So some part of the negotiations, um, uh, the, the first step you mentioned like
the Sandler Sandler sales methodology is.
Know, know who you're talking to.
Are you the buyer?
Do you have budget?
Are you the buyer?
Are you the decision maker?
Can you help me with this?
You know, that kind of thing.
So, so talk to me.
So in, in those five, you know, um, tips that number two seems pretty important.
Uh.
Paul Spencer: So, um, it depends on the, the makeup of, of who you're
dealing with, meaning the business.
So let's say it's a customer uh, you get a call from the customer.
And they say, um, need to, we need to cut.
We'll just keep using the prices analogy.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: need to cut prices.
Your, your cost, our cost by, by 15%.
And then, uh, so then you schedule a call with that person.
you need, you need to understand who that person is and, uh, is it them
that's figuring out what the cost.
do
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: figure out the 15% or were they told the 15%?
How did they arrive to the 15%?
What, what is their thinking about a 15% versus a 20% versus a 10%?
Uh, those are all the things that you need to know.
makeup of that person, what's their
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Hmm.
Paul Spencer: because a lot of times that person making that call is, is
maybe a procurement officer, right?
Or maybe an inventory manager or maybe a, a VP of some sort, maybe
a VP of operations or, um, client services, vendor management, right?
they may be being told that that number, and go figure this out with Paul.
And they don't really know maybe much of the background, or maybe they may
know the background, but they don't have any authority to negotiate.
Brandon Giella: Mm.
Paul Spencer: Right.
So for you to be able to have the conversation, you have to know Brandon
is and, and if I don't know, that's one of the first things I'm gonna ask
is, how did you arrive at the 15%?
And I just, right.
And I
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: normally, uh, you really know or not, I can just tell by the
way you answer the question, right?
And your body language and all that.
Hopefully you can do a in person you can do it on a Zoom call, right?
Um, and then if you get a sense that, uh, maybe you were told the 15%.
Then I may ask some questions based on what, what your answer is.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: me more about that.
me more about that.
Well, are you aware that that is not related to the service that we provide?
Actually, our service will make that better for you if you
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: service away, that'll make that one thing actually worse,
which will cost you even more money.
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: Right?
So anyway, if you're having that conversation and
this person is not in the.
In the influential then you need to change the negotiation.
It's not a negotiation at that point about cost cut.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: a negotiation about how we can work together to get
in the same room with the person who told you to make the 15% cut.
Right.
Because it's only at that point
Brandon Giella: Yeah,
Paul Spencer: Paul can make a negotiating win-win proposal, right?
Brandon Giella: that's right.
Paul Spencer: in the end, the only way that this is going to end up is you win.
I lose because you are given this cut, probably some different criteria, right?
You're not gonna negotiate it on it.
And no matter what I say or do with you as part of my negotiating, you don't
have the authority to say yes or no.
Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Paul Spencer: opportunity I have is to say, take the deal or, or not,
Brandon Giella: yeah, yeah.
Paul Spencer: win.
I, there's no win-win in that situation.
So there's no point on me even having the conversation.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: the conversation to learn more about it, but
eventually I need to learn.
How do I negotiate to the, the, stakeholder, the highest stakeholder
that we can have a conversation so that we can get to the win-win.
Brandon Giella: What this reminds me of is.
I have listened to a lot of Charlie Munger in my day.
Uh, so Charlie Munger is a business partner of, of Warren Buffet,
late business partner, a legend.
Uh, he would always say that the number one thing you can learn
in business was psychology.
And he said if he could go back and if he could study one
thing, it would be psychology.
And everything you're describing is that in these negotiation conversations,
it is so human, psychological.
You know, there's just so much going on in there.
Uh, with those conversations, there's obviously that you need to know your
business and margins and what you can do and not do and all that sort of thing, but
there's just so much psychology in there.
Paul Spencer: Yeah.
Yeah.
So Deming, uh, the Deming, uh, system of profound knowledge,
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: thing that we use with when we're thinking about our
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: One of those is psychology.
Brandon Giella: Hm.
Paul Spencer: And so, uh, you have awareness of the system, right?
You understand variation, you understand theory of knowledge, and then you
understand psychology because, uh, you may have systems like what we've talked about,
processes in place, but you have to also un understand psychology and the people.
That are running the systems,
Brandon Giella: That's right.
Paul Spencer: Because everything that we just talked just now about
negotiating and, and, uh, developing a win-win opportunity or agreement
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: our customer a process.
Brandon Giella: Hmm
Paul Spencer: Um, and in that case, it's uh, super critical.
You understand psychology in order for that process to work.
Brandon Giella: hmm.
Paul Spencer: We're not in the, we're not in the, in the, um, furniture making
process where you just need to know how to operate the gun in the mill,
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: the drill in the mill right here.
I have to understand how you work.
As a human.
And then I also have to understand how you work as a person, as an individual,
Brandon Giella: Mm.
Paul Spencer: and the things, what your role is, right?
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: think about things and are you willing to negotiate and right.
All those things.
Uh, in order to get to a win-win, you have to.
you're not gonna, you're not gonna succeed in a win-win.
Brandon Giella: Thank you for my, uh, monthly reminder that
I need to study dimming in the system of profound knowledge.
'cause I feel like every time I talk to you, it's like, no, this is a system.
Go back, like, to go what our first principles, you know,
think about this in, in totality,
Paul Spencer: Yeah.
Brandon Giella: very helpful.
Paul Spencer: I think, uh, just, I know we talked about this at the beginning,
but everything we just talked about would, is a normal input, a normal
process for a resilient business.
It's we do,
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: we operate.
So, um, if you're not, if you don't feel like you would score yourself as high.
In negotiating either internal or external.
then it's something to work on.
It's
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: about,
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: so many things out there, um, to learn on, um, on negotiating.
There's so
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: things out there.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: and just by touching it just a little bit,
you'll, you'll improve, right?
But the, the main point of our conversation is that it's going to
be hypercritical that you understand.
Psychology and you understand your negotiating process because there are
going to be a lot of things shifting
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: people are gonna be finding their partners.
Brandon Giella: Mm
Paul Spencer: the, and it's, it's like when you are a school kid, right?
And we're picking dodgeball teams.
If
Brandon Giella: mm.
Paul Spencer: if you don't make your kickball teams right, and
if you don't make your pick, if you don't move fast, right?
You're like, ugh.
Brandon Giella: Yep.
Paul Spencer: Geez.
Brandon Giella: Yep.
Paul Spencer: don't wanna, you wanna be able to have the skill the, and
the, the, the presence to be able to make these agreements and to be able
to move, constantly on your negotiating
Brandon Giella: Hmm,
Paul Spencer: it, it's going to be necessary.
Brandon Giella: that's right.
It's, it seems like everything's off the table for the next period, 10 years.
I don't know.
You know, whatever it might look like, but
Paul Spencer: the timeframe is, but
Brandon Giella: yeah.
Paul Spencer: uh, if you, going back to the fun aspect.
Brandon Giella: Yeah,
Paul Spencer: and I, and just to, just to go back, this is not to be flippant about
the seriousness of running the business
Brandon Giella: of course.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: having employees and,
Brandon Giella: We're all feeling it.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: back for 20% and that's gonna be a, a big
disruption to our business and
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: and all that.
Yes, of course.
However, if we can still be fun with our negotiating and we can
get improvement into our skills on what that process looks like.
Right then we improve and we elevate, and it only sets us up for more success
Brandon Giella: That's right.
Paul Spencer: success.
And there may be a time where our business is doing today is completely
different than what we, than what we're gonna be doing in six years.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Paul Spencer: we naturally, as a resilient business shifted and pivoted and did
our feedback loops and negotiated, and we ended up in the optimal.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: And our business is now operating, thriving because we
didn't just sit here and try to figure out how we get this thing to work.
Brandon Giella: That's right.
Paul Spencer: and that's the negotiating again, is just an important input into
Brandon Giella: Hmm, hmm,
Paul Spencer: a turbulent time.
Brandon Giella: hmm.
Paul Spencer: Unpredictable time probably is a better way of saying it.
Brandon Giella: Amen.
Amen.
I'll close with that 'cause that's exactly, exactly right and it's something
I definitely could get better at.
So thank you.
As always, for your wisdom and expertise.
Well, that'll do it, Paul.
We'll see you next time.
Talk soon.
Paul Spencer: you.
Yep.
Bye.