[00:00:00] Everyone: happy? [00:00:03] Elena: How does anybody stay happy? [00:00:05] Angela Vega: I think of happiness now as a formula [00:00:08] Sandy: what gives you energy versus what doesn't [00:00:10] Nadia: the most valuable thing that you have is time [00:00:13] Ankur: I treat my personal life, like a high priority e test [00:00:16] Austin: all things come back to your, mental health and your physical health [00:00:19] Sarah: By going outside [00:00:20] Olga: I have sunlight, uh, in my eyes as soon as possible. [00:00:24] Zach: It's a good way to like, kind of shut off my mind [00:00:26] Jane: the need for recovery allows you to make those gains [00:00:29] Megan: creating some boundaries [00:00:30] Keith: I need interesting problems to solve [00:00:32] Constantine: we started adopting a very interesting principle [00:00:34] Sundar: You've gotta look at a long-term trend [00:00:36] Henk-jan: staying true to yourself, [00:00:38] ​ [00:01:05] Phil: People totally roll their eyes at the idea of work-life balance. These days, I'm actually way more curious about happiness and sustainability. Last year I spoke with 50 people that work in MarTech and operations about how they stay happy under pressure. [00:01:19] This three part series titled 50 Operators Shared the Systems that Keep them Happy. Explores three main layers that showed up the most frequently through the lived experience of operators who probably feel the same pressure you're feeling right now. Today we start with part one. Stability through routines, boundaries and systems that protect both the body and the mind. [00:01:38] We'll hear from 15 people and we will cover building non-negotiables, normalizing stress, managing energy, health routines, recovery cycles, and calendar discipline, all that, and a bunch more stuff after a quick word from two of our awesome partners. [00:01:51] ​ [00:03:55] Phil: So let's start with the underlying rules of a happiness system. [00:03:59] Our first [00:04:00] guest talks about a bunch of different things, but he hits on non-negotiables. What has to stay protected no matter how busy or stressful work becomes. [00:04:09] Austin Hay: Building Non Negotiables --- [00:04:09] Austin: I'm very intellectually curious. I, um, I like, I feel like I always like to learn things and try new things and pick up skills. [00:04:17] Phil: That's Austin Hay. He's a co-founder, a teacher, MarTech advisor, but he's also a husband, a dog dad, a student, a water skiing fanatic, an avid runner, a certified financial planner, and a bunch more stuff. [00:04:29] Austin: as it relates to staying happy, uh, you know, I, I'm just such a big believer that all things come back to your, your mental health and your physical health. Um, so you, you know, getting enough sleep, having relationships outside of work, not taking yourself too seriously, having time to reflect, um, working out regularly, uh, having a life outside of work, having games you play and friends you have, and hobbies, like, in my mind, [00:05:00] those are the things that are the foundations of a happy life. [00:05:03] And I do feel like in my twenties, I spent a lot of time in pursuit of other things. I always told myself I would get to them, and that's true. I'm starting to get to them. But it did come at a cost. I mean, there were a lot of days in my twenties where I'd, you know, kind of look at myself in the mirror and not be happy with the life I was creating because I was so singularly fixated on my job and my career and, you know, the work I was doing for clients and money and. [00:05:33] All these things can kind of get in the way of what's obvious and in front of you. And so my advice to people is, is actually pretty simple. It's, it's just what I said. It's like take care of the basics and the rest will take care of itself. Um, and uh, and yeah. Um, as it relates to sacrifices, 'cause you did mention that, like that is a key part of it too. [00:05:54] Um, I've learned a, a really good lesson from my co-founder, Patrick, which is to like view a lot [00:06:00] of decisions and. Outcomes in life just as trade-offs. Um, because at the end of the day, that's what a lot of stuff boils down to. Whether you do an experiment or not, whether you build something or buy, whether you, um, hire a new team member or not, whether you're able to achieve a goal for the year, everything comes back to kind of a mental calculation or sometimes a mathematical calculation of what are you trying to achieve and how much time do you have and how do you make that equation balance? [00:06:24] And I think a lot of people are just unwilling to confront. That equation, they're unwilling to balance the ledger. They're unwilling to say like, oh, I can't do these things. And so increasingly I've just, I've kind of accepted that in order to pursue the things that I care about, it's going to come with trade-offs. [00:06:40] Um, and a really great example of a trade-off that I make all the time is like I have a non-negotiable of trying to go to bed at 9, 9 30 every every night. Nice. Because I have to wake up at five 30 or six to be able to clear my inbox, to be able to go to the gym or do the run. It seems so obvious, and I'm not like touting that as some, um, [00:07:00] you know, impressive thing. [00:07:01] It's just like, it's a math equation. You know? I can't sleep less than seven and a half hours and be a functioning human. So if I want to achieve my goal, if I want to be able to run a marathon one day and I have to run six miles tomorrow, I'm not gonna be able to do that without sleep. And I think just a lot of people are like unwilling to confront those trade-offs, trade-offs like that. [00:07:20] Um, and I think that somehow they can magically create a world. Where they can have everything they want without making the trade-offs. And so, you know, work backwards from your goals, make the decisions you need to get there and, um, and be willing to set some non-negotiables. [00:07:34] Phil: So Austin sets the bar pretty high for us today. For him, daily infrastructure depends on non-negotiables that protect sleep, health, energy, and he emphasizes clear priorities, visible trade-offs, repeatable routines, so that you can build guess, you call it like durability in your career. Uh, so you can handle all the crazy moments, the ups and downs, the pressure, the stress. [00:07:54] Stress is actually something that comes up quite a lot for folks, uh, in these answers. And our next guest stays [00:08:00] on the mental framework vein and talks about building systems that prevent stress from piling up in the first place. [00:08:06] Sundar Swaminathan: Systems That Prevent Stress --- [00:08:06] Sundar: My philosophy has always been you cannot, you can control things and you can't control things. [00:08:12] The thing you, things you can control. If you do your best effort and you try your best, that's okay. And if you can control it, then like. It, you have to figure out a way to not get stressed about it. [00:08:23] Phil: That's Sun Swaminathan, former head of Marketing Science at Uber, and the author and host of the experimental newsletter and podcast. He's also a husband, a father, well traveled home chef, and an amateur chess master. [00:08:35] Sundar: It's the things that you can't control that always get people. And for me, yeah, I've just built up, I think like some resilience towards that. [00:08:42] And that's kept me happy because you know, I would say like many things like short term, there's gonna be fluctuations. It's impossible to always be happy, but like you've gotta look at a long-term trend. And if you think about it, like stocks, like you are gonna take some losses in the short term, but like if you've got this [00:09:00] long term perspective on how you wanna invest in yourself and the relationships that you wanna invest in, like if you do that right repeatedly every day as much as you can in the long term, you're gonna be happy. [00:09:11] And so an example for us is, you know, we left our families and we came to Amsterdam and we're not looking back like, like it's unlocked a level of happiness. That if we had thought too much about it, we would've never even gotten to and reached. So for me, it's just, you know, trying to put myself into situations and see where my energy takes me. [00:09:33] Um, and then being comfortable revisiting some assumptions, like for example, like I grew up in an Indian household and, and work and career were always the number one thing. And I'm very comfortable accepting and like I will never put work first. Like I, you know, I did, at a certain point in my life, I've now got, uh, you know, my wife and my kid and like, it's like pretty clear difference between how much I care [00:10:00] about them and how much of I care about work. [00:10:01] Mm. Um, it doesn't mean I'm gonna be bad at my job or, or crappier, like, you know, it just means like I, I've been very iron Cloud on like my priorities and like we've talked about, like what brings me energy and if it doesn't bring me energy, like, again, like with the stuff that happened in March, like. It's not that life is too short, it's just life is just too unpredictable that like, I'm not gonna chase stuff that doesn't give me energy. [00:10:25] Um, there's no point in just sitting there being like unhappy 'cause it bleeds into every part of your life and it makes you just like a miserable person. So, so, yeah. So long answer. Apologies. Since we've had the kid. I've been on this solo in our journey, so I've had a bit more flexibility. Nice. But also, this is like what I mean by we found this new level of happiness, like we're in a system. [00:10:47] That lets you have that work-life balance. Like there's no part of me that, or my wife, you know, she's been a full-time job, super stressful, super high opposition. They're very understanding, right? [00:11:00] So if the kid can't go to daycare, there's not a question of like, oh man, should I tell them? Should I take a sick day? [00:11:05] Like you're in an ecosystem that I think just puts families and people first. Um, and so. We won't, we won't get into my thoughts on, on the US even though it's where I'm from, but um, you know, we're just, we're in an environment where people get it. Um, and we've actually like found that like, you know, we would love our grandparents to be like, be around 'cause we want them to have a, a good relationship with our kids. [00:11:32] But, um, we haven't like, felt the need, like, we're like struggling without them. And, and I, I, you know, we know a lot of expat couples here and they're kind of the same thing because like. You're just not in this daily grind where you feel like you need grandparents sometimes to help you out. Like you can, you know, it's, luckily for us, our kid has also just been great, so I think there's a little bit of luck of the draw there. [00:11:56] He's, you know, he a, he's a good kid, so. [00:11:58] Phil: So pretty powerful stuff from Sunder [00:12:00] there. He had an awesome episode on the podcast. Great answer here today as well. Uh, he talked about a bunch of stuff. One thing that jumps out to me is, you know, sustainable careers for Him is all about infrastructure that prevents stress before it accumulates. [00:12:12] He talks about strategies like control, boundaries, thinking about the long term and having a supportive environment around you to create stability. Um, some of the folks that talk about stress are less focused on preventing it. Uh, our next guest, Ashley. You know, it just expects stress at every turn in their job, and instead is focused on figuring out a way to normalize it. [00:12:33] Elena Hassan: Normalizing Stress --- [00:12:33] Elena: How does anybody stay happy? Um, I think not taking yourself or life too seriously. It's probably a very good help. I think, [00:12:41] Phil: That's Elena Hassan, global head of Integrated Marketing for Visa Direct. She's also a mom and an avid traveler. [00:12:49] Elena: you know, there is a job that you do and I find huge amount of fulfillment and satisfaction out of what I do and who I work with and things like that. [00:12:59] But there is [00:13:00] always. Stress and problems and things and stuff, you know, and it's a part of the job. And as the, the more, the more, you know, higher position you hold, the, the more stress you have potential or different kinds of stress. So I think in the end of the day, you need to put things in the grand scheme of things. [00:13:19] Like, this is the job and you do the best you do. And, you know, there's always stress and problems. Just like, again, in, in, at home. I'm a homeowner. There's always something breakings, the parts throws, you know, and spring there's, there's always something that you deal with on constant basis. It's just a part of life and it's all like, you know, a part of a part of it. [00:13:48] And you can't get yourself get too, you know, serious, too stressed about things. I think. I think it's all about managing stress for, I think. Just keep it balanced, you know, keep things in [00:14:00] perspective. Um, great advice. Yeah. Whatever happens, it's not the end of the world. [00:14:04] Phil: I love the honesty and the self-reflection from Elena. And her answer here. She's almost framing stresses, you know, just a normal part of the job and instead she's focused on habits that keep it from taking over or getting too crazy. Um, one of the benefits obviously of. Doing this, like having a good handle on stress is that it protects your energy. [00:14:23] And our next lineup of guests talk about how our happiness system needs to be designed around energy and how we think about that. [00:14:32] Sandy Mangat: Managing Energy --- [00:14:32] Sandy: Yeah, I think, um, that's a great question and again, like something I could talk about forever. Um, [00:14:39] Phil: That's Sandy Mangat, head of marketing at pocus. She's also a big fan of tactile hobbies like painting, home decor and interior design. [00:14:47] Sandy: I think there's a few keys to like remaining happy and successful in your career. I think one of 'em is just choosing the right people to work with. Hmm. The, that is like the, I think number one predictor of happiness [00:15:00] in your career is the people you end up working with. [00:15:02] You know, like you should, like the people you work with. Um. And that doesn't always work for people, but for me, like that is the biggest kind of like thing that buoys me every day and makes me excited to work is I love the people I work with. Um, not just because they're like fun, nice people, but I also think like they're leveling me up in my career. [00:15:23] Mm-hmm. Um, and making me better at my job. Um, I think always carving time to work on things. I give you energy and being like really conscious of what gives you energy versus what doesn't. Um, and there will be, and then just like being realistic about the fact that there are gonna be weeks where you are off balance. [00:15:41] You are working on things that drain your energy exclusively and you're just not gonna be that happy. In those cases. Make sure that like when you log off, you are doing something that makes you happy. So for me it's like maybe doing something tactile. Like you said. I love doing creative things to like. [00:15:57] Can give me that happiness. [00:16:00] But uh, other days when I'm like super burnt out, it might just be watching some trash reality tv. [00:16:05] Phil: So one thing that jumps out in Sandy's answer is that sustainable careers depend on infrastructure that allows you to respect your energy limits and really understanding that like she's recommending that you figure out what work restores or drain you, but that you know, there's obviously gonna be periods of imbalance. [00:16:23] Um, our next guest totally agrees with Sandy. He talks about reducing friction by honoring your energy patterns. [00:16:31] Constantine Yurevich: Designing Work That Matches Personal Energy --- [00:16:31] Constantine: Yeah, I would say, um, we started adopting a very interesting principle in the company. [00:16:36] Phil: That's Constantine Vic, CEO, and co-founder at Segment Stream. He's also a husband, a dad, paraglider, surfer, and Husky Dog Dad. [00:16:45] Constantine: We do what we want to do, so I, I, we took it to quite extreme level. For example, I'm doing a lot of sales in the company, and at some point I thought, I don't like CRM [00:17:00] systems. I don't like follow ups. I don't like chasing clients. [00:17:08] Yeah, I like writing content, posting on LinkedIn, having interesting conversations with people who are interested in what we do and have a problem, and also like strategizing and talking to our product team. So. So I decided I won't be doing anything else, so I stopped using CRM. I stopped following up, and at first my partner was a little bit like, oh, you've met with this client like one month ago. [00:17:39] Would you like to follow up with, no, I don't want, Hmm, why? Because like it's like an attribution. Like there is a reason why this client is not reaching out. To me, they might be many different priorities and I will be pushing, but they're gonna be resistance. And myself, I don't like when someone pushes me. [00:17:59] Yeah. [00:18:00] So at, at, at some time when they, they're gonna prioritize this, when it's gonna be huge pain, they're gonna remember our great conversation and they're gonna reach out. And I will remember them and we will have another conversation. So I just stopped doing things that many companies say that you should be doing because this is a proper way to do sales, to do marketing, to do software development. [00:18:24] And we just started doing like what naturally flows and what you really like and you really enjoy. [00:18:31] Phil: So Constantine basically says that the key to happiness is to ditch your CRM and stop following up with fleas. But he, he does make a great point. Like if you do something a lot and you hate it and it's super high friction, figure out a way to stop doing it. Like his advice is all about building routines around how your energy is actually moving throughout the day, and long-term stability will follow if you figure that out. [00:18:56] Our next guest also talks a lot about energy, specifically [00:19:00] how he translates it into pacing and rhythm and finding interesting problems to solve. [00:19:05] Keith Jones: Intentional Work Rhythms --- [00:19:05] Keith: Yeah, that's a really, really wonderful question. So [00:19:08] Phil: That's Keith Jones, head of GTM Systems at OpenAI, but he's also a Lego fanatic, avid cyclist and severance superfan. [00:19:16] Keith: I'll say in terms of like, how do I make sure that I'm staying happy and I would actually say and fulfilled, uh, in my career. Uh, so two things. One, I need interesting problems to solve, right? Um, most humans need some sort of stimulus, if not all Humans need some sort of stimuli to like keep them interested, right? [00:19:36] Um, and it, it needs to be interesting to a certain degree. So I would say first and foremost, I just try to make sure that I have interesting problems to solve, that I feel rewarded for playing a role in solving, right? Um, but I also have to make sure that I can have some degree of balance, right? I know balance is a, a hot button issue, and I'm not gonna try to go all the way [00:20:00] down that route. [00:20:01] Um, you know, you said I'm a newer runner, right? But I've also been an avid cyclist. That means I'm an endurance athlete. That means that I know what happens when you go too hard, too long. Mm-hmm. You crash and you burn and you can't do the, you can't get up the next day or get back on the bike or back on the road. [00:20:19] Right. I'm gonna do a nine and a half mile run tomorrow. You know what that means? I'm not doing on Sunday. Running nine and a half miles again. So it's a balance for me of making sure that I'm interested, that I feel invest, that I have a reason to invest, but also that I can push myself to a point where I have, I have time to pull back and recover. [00:20:39] Right. Um, and then in terms of like, how do I find that balance? It's just, it's intentionality at the end of the day. I have to carve that out for myself. So, um, I'm a calendar freak. Um, I blocked my calendar off. Nice. Right. Um, I, my calendar is blocked off until, uh, 7:00 AM Eastern and after 7:00 PM now I make it clear [00:21:00] like, Hey, if you really need me, I'm not gonna say no, I never take a call after seven o'clock. [00:21:05] Right. Um, I took a 7:00 PM call last night, but I also don't do that every day. Yeah, right. So it's about knowing when to sprint. Knowing when to jog, knowing when to walk, and knowing when to lay your ass down and get some rest. [00:21:19] Phil: So Keith almost had like a two part answer there. Intentionally finding cool problems to solve, but also making time for movements and pacing everything and, and respecting human limits. I love how he calls me out, like instead of, you know, saying that it should be finding success, it should be finding fulfillment, um, much better where they're totally agree with him. [00:21:36] ​ [00:23:32] Phil: Um, but yeah, so far. All the answers we've seen have been about design logic, if you will. So if we shift a bit more to habits and how we stabilize our system through the body and, you know, keeping energy predictable, um, our next guest's answer is all about daily health routines. Without getting into, you know, a different type of podcast here, like these are all marketers that have really cool health routines. [00:23:56] Um, so let's hear our first one. [00:23:58] Olga Andrienko: Daily Health Routines --- [00:23:58] Olga: I don't have balance, [00:24:00] uh, I have priorities and I believe fully that if you wanna have balance, you will be mediocre at everything. [00:24:10] Phil: That's Olga Ako, former VP of Marketing Ops at SEMrush. She's the current CMO at Foxy. She's also a dog mom and a foodie. [00:24:17] Olga: Mm-hmm. Uh, so I choose, well, I choose relationship, I choose work, I choose like personal growth and cooking. Um, so those are my prayer and like, and uh, how I stay. Uh, happy is that I stay healthy. [00:24:36] Um, and then I have like routines and I, I'm a true believer. Like you, ever since pandemic, like I will, I wake up every, well, every single day I wake up almost at the same time. I have three sleep trackers. Uh, I don't drink coffee and I drink a lot of water. Like I, well, I don't wear sunglasses. I wear cap when I walk the dog. [00:24:57] I have sunlight, uh, in my [00:25:00] eyes as soon as possible. Mm-hmm. Um, and this is just like a lot of small health, uh, habits. I have that compound over time. I take cold shower, so it's like all of the things. And then I cook at home, I eat healthy. And that's like where like if my body functions. Uh, that makes everything else a lot easier. [00:25:24] Uh, so I invest a lot of time there. Plus, yeah, only a few priorities. Um, and like everything else is already secondary and I know that I can't win with everything, but I, well, I can win with things that I care about. [00:25:39] Phil: So some pretty intense routines there from Olga. I don't know about the no coffee routine, especially with the two young kids, including a two month old at home right now. Uh, but Olga's answer is, is awesome. Like you need to keep your list of priorities short and your body and your health has to be one of those priorities, and it's. [00:25:57] Easier said than done. Um, our next [00:26:00] guest is also about health routines, um, but they like to stick to things specifically outdoors. [00:26:06] Sarah Krasnik Bedell: Outdoor Routines --- [00:26:06] Sarah: Balance, I think is really the key to life. And so for me, um, my job is in front of a computer and I'm inside all of the time. So I try to balance that by going outside, [00:26:17] Phil: That's Sarah Knick Bedell. She's the founding growth marketer at Railway and former Director of Growth Marketing at Prefect. She's also a renowned TV show, binger ski expert and an avid swimmer. [00:26:28] Sarah: um, whenever I can. So we're recording this right in winter. I ski a lot. It's about to be my life and basically all of my life outside of work for the next five months, which I'm very excited about in the summer. [00:26:41] Um, I live in. Vermont. And so there's skiing and we're right on a lake, and so do paddle boarding, try to get out on the water, but really it's just trying to get that chain of scenery, just trying to get the blood flowing and um, just getting a little bit, a little bit of adrenaline in there too. [00:26:58] Phil: So short but sweet. [00:27:00] Uh, Sarah needs water and snow to stay happy, but she makes a great point, like consistent outdoor movement tied to seasons. It can create repeatable boundaries so that she's able to protect energy, focus, and just like idea of long-term happiness, if you will. And our next guest also has a short answer, but it's along the same lines of like physical separation. [00:27:21] Zach Roberts: Physical Reset Rituals Outside Work --- [00:27:21] Zach: Yeah. Uh, for me, like I, I've shared this before, is that anybody, I've seen this on LinkedIn is that I really love rollerblading. [00:27:29] Phil: That's Zach Roberts, a fractional p and m based in California, and the co-host of the Were Not Marketers podcast. [00:27:36] Zach: I picked it up a few years ago and it's just like, yeah, it, it's, it's, um, it's quite a sight to see because when people see me on Rollerblades, they're like, yo, this is a pretty big dude on Rollerblades right here. [00:27:47] Like, what's he been through? Um. [00:27:58] And it's very, it's very [00:28:00] relaxing. It's a good way to like, kind of shut off my mind and just because I find, like with work that we're doing, albeit it's very fun work, but it's very easy to build tunnel vision and just keep this always on mentality because as you said, Phil, like we're managing this podcast. [00:28:17] We got families, we got um, we got our own endeavors we're building too as well. So I really just love that quiet time itself to just kind of unwind and kick it. [00:28:27] Phil: If you can't unwind and kick it, what are you even doing with your life? But it's true, like we all know it, but we forget it pretty easily. A physical ritual that creates real separation from work helps with focus and emotional steadiness, and. [00:28:43] Probably like long-term career sustainability if you want Also. Um, but taking this another step, like our next guest, talks about what keeps the happiness system from degrading over time. So like recovery presence and emotional stability. [00:28:57] Jane Menyo: Recovery Cycles --- [00:28:57] Jane: Yeah. Yeah. Um, former is definitely the [00:29:00] right way to term it. Um, unfortunately don't have the time to do all of that anymore. But, [00:29:04] Phil: That's Jane eo, senior Director of Solutions and Customer Marketing at Gong. She's also a former pro track in field athlete. [00:29:11] Jane: um, yeah, I mean, I definitely think there was a lot that, for me, that helped really build like a foundational, a lot of these sort of skills that I've brought back into the workplace. [00:29:20] Um, you know, being a, like a collegiate athlete, full-time student, you know, working full-time on top of like, everything. For me, trying to drive balance in my work life, um, became like essential to. Being successful in all regards. Right? And I think, again, in the workplace and for anyone, right? Like being able to find that strike in your balance is, is so important. [00:29:43] But where I, I think where my biggest learning was that, um, you're, whether you're thinking about what your body needs physically, um, as like, again, an athlete fully training, you have to have those cycles where you're actually allowing yourself to rest, right? And so. When [00:30:00] you are maxing out and you're weightlifting, you can't go and do that day after day after day because your body literally needs to heal those muscles to be able to repair and grow and be stronger. [00:30:10] And I think it's very similar on the work front and like when you think about how. Brains learn and how you form new neural pathways. And so if you wanna be able to grow and expand your skillset, you have to be able to have that time to process and to be able to rest as well. And so for me, I would say that, um, again, some of the biggest moments of creativity that I might actually have now don't happen when I'm sitting at my desk and I'm working or when I'm in meetings. [00:30:41] Right. It's usually when I've taken that minute for myself and I went out for that morning run and suddenly things start to click together, right? Hey, this initiative that's going on over here and this like fun idea we've always had over here, those can actually come together now. Like, Hey, we could actually do this and make it something [00:31:00] even bigger. [00:31:00] And like, that's pretty awesome. And so like I think that again, by taking those moments to sort of step back from the day to day of the work allows you to actually have that. Those leaps and bounds into being, um, those growth moments. So I would say for me, that's sort of one of the, uh, the things that I think about too is that you're, you know, that that need for rest or the need for recovery allows you to make those gains that you're really looking for. [00:31:26] Um, and something I like to try to drive within, within our team too. [00:31:29] Phil: I love Jane's answer. As someone who didn't really work out for a good chunk of my late twenties and early thirties and recently having rediscovered it, uh, I couldn't agree more with her answer and the benefits of, you know, moving and, um, her point about recovery is so important and easily overlooked. [00:31:44] That echos a lot of, like what Keith said a couple of answers ago, like schedule, effort and recovery as this like repeating cycle idea. And our next task actually combines recovery with. Chosen challenges. [00:31:56] Angela Vega: Chosen Challenges and Recovery Cycles --- [00:31:56] Angela Vega: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's um. That, [00:32:00] that question around like happiness, like it's something that it's just so normal that we try to like ask you like, what, what will make you happy? And, and [00:32:05] Phil: That's Angela Vega, director of Capabilities and Operations at Expedia Group. She's also a mother of two, a gardener, interior designer, woodworker, rock climber, biker photographer, and a bunch more stuff. [00:32:16] Angela Vega: the, it's like one of those questions that almost everyone has the same answer, but it's never exactly said in the same way. [00:32:22] Mm-hmm. Which I mean, says something, there's some sort of universal truth to this thing. And so the way that I thought about it is. For me, it was at one point, one thing, it was all about success. However, I define success at that time, which was usually a lot of different activities, right? Just deal my thing with stuff to do and not only fill it, but be good at it. [00:32:41] And then if I wasn't good at it or someone told me I was bad at it, then I was no longer successful, so therefore I could not be happy. Um, I'm glad to say, as you know, the Joy of Parenthood, um, for those who have experienced it, it, it's. I know it's said all the time, but man, it does change you. And so with that, for [00:33:00] me is no longer just one thing. [00:33:01] I think of happiness now as like a formula, but just like in any sort of formula, you have all these factors, right? And these factors can actually exist in a ton of different emotional states. So I know sometimes the goal is to feel like I wanna be happy. I also want to sometimes feel grief or sadness or all the other things that are frustrated, angry, um, disappointed. [00:33:24] Um, you know, and I'm sure I've gone through all those emotions today, just like in all the meetings that I've had. Right. And I know there's like a state of wanting to be happy. I think generally that most of the time I am, but I've also recognized in my life that I'm not, and it doesn't mean that those periods of my life were not of, you know, weren't worthwhile or something of that sort. [00:33:46] But all this to say is like, when I think of my formula of like what brings me happiness is, are the values that I have being honored in a environment, in a place and by people that I love, that I hold dear to me? [00:34:00] Do I have, do I get to pick my chosen challenges? Um, I think a lot of the time we have challenges put upon us, and this is the idea of like growth, right? [00:34:10] Everyone talks about like, I want growth. And usually most of the time you get growth is because you've been challenged, because you've worked out at the gym and now you have bigger muscles because you know, you've, uh, watered the tree. You've done some sort of activity that isn't necessarily easy, that has allowed you to change the way in which you think about things. [00:34:27] And I think being able to choose some of those things, which I'm very fortunate. I know not everyone gets that. Is a part of my happiness, discernment, just as we talked about. Mm-hmm. Realizing what things are important and what things aren't prioritization, and then also recognizing that there's growth and rest phases. [00:34:43] I think it's so hard for us who are just constantly go, go, go. That the idea that there's times in your life where your rest isn't like, I'm gonna sit on the sofa and do nothing. It is just more about the idea of. Giving yourself grace and space [00:35:00] to not climb a ladder, but to explore a landscape and be okay with that. [00:35:03] And that it doesn't have to mean that you have to keep getting better at a thing. Sometimes you can just do a thing because it's enjoyable. And so how I remain happy is playing up each of these things. And sometimes it's all of them. Sometimes it's only one of them, but I always have a little bit of happiness there. [00:35:24] And then sometimes those pieces go into other places. To where I'm not so happy, but I'm definitely able to, you know, to understand what would get me to that place of happiness. [00:35:39] Phil: Really awesome answer from Angela. Her words are like worth meditating on. In fact, her entire episode is amazing. She opens up on the podcast about her diagnosis and talks about why A DHD shapes better decision making for marketing operations. Um, but yeah, her answer here kind of sums up one thing she talked a lot about in her episode, building systems [00:36:00] that hold. [00:36:01] Under emotional pressure, uh, our next guest defined presence as the result of those systems being designed and protected. [00:36:09] Megan Kwon: Presence Built Into the Day --- [00:36:09] Megan: How do I stay happy in my career? I think for me, I, I stay happy by staying present. [00:36:17] Phil: That's Megan Qua, director of Digital Customer Communications at Loblaw Digital. She's also a super active biker. She's also golfing a lot, tried and true snowboarder and skier as well. [00:36:27] Megan: Your career is a pretty long road, not linear by any means. Um, early on I felt a lot of stress, like trying to look ahead and being, making fun planned and making sure that I'm, you know, working from all the right things. [00:36:42] That's just like the nature of ambition. But, um, my happiness is really just. Enjoying what I'm doing, looking ahead every so often, but really just enjoying what I'm doing and making the most of it, and creating some boundaries like I [00:37:00] do very intentionally, like walk away at certain parts of the day and remind myself that I really need to work on my golf wing sometimes and you know, spend some time outside. [00:37:10] And that for me creates a lot of balance. Extremely extroverted and I have a lot of energy usually, so I need places to put them. Well, if I've got plan to golf or to snowboard or to get out for a bike ride, usually that keeps me pretty happy. [00:37:27] Phil: So all of Jane, Angela, and Megan talk about preventing erosion of the happiness system, if you will, by focusing on recovery presence and emotional stability. So tons of awesome ideas and concepts in those answers, but how do we actually enforce this? How do those ideas show up in like calendars, weekly plans, or everyday decisions? [00:37:48] Let's hear from our three final guests. [00:37:50] Nadia Davis: Calendar Discipline --- [00:37:50] Nadia: So I have this philosophy that the most valuable thing that you have is time [00:37:56] Phil: that's Nadia Davis. She's the VP of marketing at CaliberMind, but she's also a mother of [00:38:00] two. A Ridgeback parent, avid runner, occasional triathlete, and an amateur new pianist. [00:38:06] Nadia: and how you spend your time and who you give your time to is ultimately what makes you happy and makes you feel accomplished, right? So when I look back at my day, and I know that all of these things that you just named, I. [00:38:18] Did what I needed to do. I dedicated time. I had the discipline to do all of these things in order and somebody would, would call me, you know, obsession of the calendar person, right? But it's true. Once I have the collection of all these things that matter to me, I feel fulfilled. Like, I feel like I spent my day and it did not get wasted. [00:38:36] 'cause that's one less day that I have. Sometimes it is a lot of things, but as you go through your meetings on your LinkedIn Cal or on your, um, outlook calendar or your Google calendar, right? You just be like, okay, that was a good day. I feel like that at the end of the day, once I hit all of my things, if it means getting up at four 30 in the morning, I mean that's what it means to be happy, right? [00:38:55] Then you would have to go to bed earlier. But, um, it's balancing all of those [00:39:00] things and making sure that my time was spent wisely and people that I invested in or things that I invested in, really the ones that nurture my soul. That's my secret to happiness. [00:39:11] Phil: I love how grounded Nadia's answer is. Like for her, your calendar is almost like the central operating system for your daily infrastructure. She's encouraging you to literally plan time around the work in relationships that sustain you, but most importantly, protect those blocks consistently. [00:39:27] I know if you're a big calendar block and fan, easier said than done. Um, but her next guest has an awesome answer, grounded in planning your workday as well. [00:39:36] Henk-jan ter Brugge: Planning the Week as a Constraint System --- [00:39:36] Henk-jan: Yes, I, I, I think it's really about staying true to yourself, being yourself, staying authentic. 'cause otherwise it costs you a lot of energy, [00:39:45] Phil: That's Hank Yto Bhe, former head Global Digital Programs in MarTech at Phillips. He's also a husband and a father of two daughters, frequent traveler, avid sports fanatic and community steward. [00:39:56] Henk-jan: especially in the age of ai. I think it's really [00:40:00] important to be grounded in what you believe and, and have really a bit of optimism also. 'cause sometimes people are daunted by, I dunno, whatever comes their way, or AI or whatever topic. [00:40:09] And I'm really an optimist by nature and belief. Uh, also that optimism is really something to hold onto in most circumstances. You know, it's not always easy. But, uh, also they're choosing to be optimistic. Takes courage to lead also, it takes courage and it both comes with its perks, of course, but also with its responsibilities. [00:40:29] And I'm just very fortunate that I really love that the mix and my background is also from, from a sales, working at a startup now in marketing technology. I really love the, the, the, uh, the tech, the business and the people, and. I think that helps a great deal also, uh, I've developed a habit, uh, and it's maybe a small, uh, life hack that I use every Friday. [00:40:52] I look at my next week, I think of that week, uh, where I work five days. But what if I would go on holiday Thursday, Friday? So actually [00:41:00] I have only three days left. Hmm. What, what would I focus on? You know, it's also really about, uh, focusing and, uh, one more thing, uh, uh, making choices. Of course, they're saying no more often than yes. [00:41:11] It helps you enormously. Otherwise it just gets too big as too much on your plate. And, uh, I think also there's something, uh, yeah, like I said, stay true to yourself. Focus, uh, but also don't do it alone. You know, you, you need to do it together. Share if, if you have a bad day and talk about it with your team, with the people around you, you know, they can help you. [00:41:32] And, and, uh, yeah, I think that that's the most important. Of course, my family helps me. My, my sports helps me, uh, very much as well. And, uh, yeah. I also believe that if you're not feeling well outside of work, you will not do your best job at work also. Mm-hmm. So, uh, yeah, uh, prioritize that me time. I know a lot of people, you know, in my teams, they put in the calendar to spend. [00:41:55] 30 minutes, uh, one hour on self-reflection or personal development, et [00:42:00] cetera, was the first thing in the week that gets thrown out of your calendar. Mm-hmm. Is that one hour with yourself. So it means you're not prioritizing yourself, you know, and I know it's not easy and I also don't do it perfectly. Uh, but yeah, I think that's, that's very important. [00:42:13] Think of, of. What you are in that business, you're way more than that role. Think what you are outside of that business also, you know? And yeah, I just get that awful lot of energy connecting with the community, talking with other people, seeing, uh, like I said before, uh, that you're not so different than the rest and, and everybody's struggling in some way or another. [00:42:33] Sometimes when you see all these, uh, pitches online or, or you go to conference, whatever, it looks so perfect. You know, same as a vendor presentation in the end. Try to, try to connect with the person behind it. And, uh, I also just have fun, uh, while doing it. Enjoy the journey. That's it. Stay a pirate. [00:42:50] Phil: Love Hank's Answer, love Hank's episode entirely. [00:42:54] Also, it's all about, uh, thinking more like pirates. Check that out. Um, but yeah, constraints always have a negative [00:43:00] connotation, but he uses them to design his work week for him. Like limited time actually means priorities are sharper and energy is protected. Our final guest has the shortest answer, but arguably the most unique key AB tests to govern his attention. [00:43:15] Ankur Kothari: Personal Metrics --- [00:43:15] Ankur: Yeah, so my secret to happiness in MarTech space, I treat my personal life, uh, like a high priority e test that always outperforms my work metrics. [00:43:25] Phil: That's Anker Qatari MarTech consultant. He was worked with big tech names and finance consulting firms like Salesforce, JP Morgan, McKinsey. He's also a father of two and a pickleball fanatic. [00:43:36] Ankur: Whenever my smart, uh, my smart, uh, watches or smart, uh, devices buzz with campaign alerts, or that happens all the time during the dinner time, I simply ask whether this notification improve my family engagement rate. [00:43:50] The answer is always no. Apart from that, I, I try to declutter my life over the weekends with, from a technology, uh, [00:44:00] device, techn tech devices to keep my phone away or the technology devices away when I'm playing the pickleball with my, uh, with my friends and family, I. [00:44:07] Outro --- [00:44:07] Phil: Well, there you have it folks. Listening back to these stories back to back to back, one thing that really stands out to me is that no one talks about happiness. Is this like ultimate destination. You know, the pursuit of happiness isn't something that you like get or like achieve, um, and it's not like something that's someone's gonna give you permission or it's not like a milestone badge that you have. [00:44:27] Everyone kinda thinks of it as like, we need to build small systems. Keep us standing while the work continues to come. It's like a, like a non-static thing. It has to be dynamic. We have like Austin and Olga that build physical stability into their days through discipline routines around sleep. Uh, Sundar and Elena designed stress prevention into their workflows. [00:44:50] Nadia and Megan talked a lot about calendars and daily boundaries. Keith and Jane applied endurance principles to work in, you know, sustaining energy. Sarah and [00:45:00] Zach were all about going outside rollerblading or snowboarding and, you know, just like that counterbalanced, screen heavy routines, uh, ker and sandy structured boundaries and collaboration to reduce energy drain. [00:45:12] And then Constantine, Hankin and Angela reshaped rules and rituals. They kind of talked about a lot of different things, but, um, you know. They're reshaping rules and rituals and expectations, so their systems fit human limits rather than forcing humans to fit relentless systems. So if you take one thing from this episode, let it be this pick one daily boundary. [00:45:33] Your job no longer gets to violate. Maybe one thing at like New Year's resolution, we're in February now maybe, you know, you've already degraded that, that resolution a bit. But like, pick one boundary, one thing you want to do and like set it. Keep it, whether it's like a real bedtime, a hard stop on like evening calls, a workout that you do every two days, a calendar block that doesn't move for like meditating or reading, like whatever it [00:46:00] is. [00:46:00] One line that separates work from the systems that keep you steady. Sustainable careers aren't built by doing everything better. They're built by choosing one daily boundary and defending it until it becomes normal, and then doing a second or a third boundary until you've got like a good, really solid foundation base. [00:46:21] So that's it for part one. Uh, I hope you enjoyed all these perspectives. The super fun mashing these, uh, all up together. Um, obviously worked with GPT and, and Claude to figure out like, you know, who should be in what group, how do I structure the narrative there? Disagree with a lot of what I was getting, but, uh, I'm excited to share part two, uh, next week if you listen to this, uh, when it drops gonna be out in seven days. [00:46:42] Um, but we're shifting from like the inner work to the people that are around us and how relationships keep. The whole system running at all. But yeah, thanks for listening. If you stay this far,