WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:03.680 You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a 2 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.440 couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun, in 3 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:13.759 practical ways. Well, welcome back to the newest episode of 4 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:17.600 The Bible Guys. I'm Jeff and this is Wesley Woods, 5 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:21.239 which means, for all of our long time listeners, this 6 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:25.640 is a platinum edition of The Bible Guys. That right, 7 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:27.920 I mean, any anytime you're a guest on the on 8 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:30.960 the Bible Guys, it's a platinum because the last time 9 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:34.079 I wasn't here, you were a part of the You 10 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:35.880 filled in for me, which, by the way, thank you. You 11 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:38.000 did a great job. That's why I had to hurry back, 12 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:39.880 because you did too good of a job. But I 13 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:42.079 think it came up there that you were You made 14 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:43.600 it the platinum latinum version. 15 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:47.399 You and Kyle got diamond or something like that something. 16 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:51.240 So Chris Sarba is working with a ministry we love 17 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.600 called Transform One down in the Dominican Republic and they 18 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:59.039 help rescue children from trafficking in uh So it's just 19 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:01.359 a really great ministry. This where he's at this week. 20 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:03.560 So you and I get to do this together and 21 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.799 we're talking about how Jesus teaches us how to deal 22 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:10.959 with somebody who's hurt us or offended us inside the church. 23 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.560 And so I think it's going to be a really 24 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.480 good challenge for every listener today. But before we do that, 25 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:20.439 this whole week, we're kind of talking about relationships. Right 26 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:24.079 The premise behind our podcast right now is what if 27 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:27.480 Jesus had a podcast? And then we're just taking famous 28 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:32.640 statements and famous passages that Jesus talked about, and that's 29 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:34.959 what we're doing in our podcast. So today is if 30 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.480 your brother sins against you, it's what it is. So 31 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:42.519 since we're talking about relationships, Wesley Desiree said, as we 32 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:46.200 continue our current series, this week's episodes focus on real 33 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:50.480 talk on relationships. For today's segment, let's share some funny 34 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:55.040 or embarrassing stories from your marriages or any other relationship 35 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:58.799 that you want to share. So Wesley, give us, give 36 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:01.439 us a great story about relationship. 37 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:04.200 So I don't know if it falls in funny or embarrassing, 38 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.200 but it's a good story. So I met my wife 39 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:10.080 at Universal Mall. So this is going back to the mall, 40 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:13.039 isn't it anymore? Yeah? Yeah? But I met her at 41 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:16.680 the mall and as I was walking down the hallway. 42 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:19.159 She was captivated by my presence. 43 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:19.840 I bet. 44 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:22.360 Yeah, this is a true story. I guarantee you this 45 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:25.199 is at least eight percent true. I'm telling the truth here. 46 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:29.560 She was captivated. And here's the thing. When I first 47 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:32.719 met her, she had a boyfriend. Yeah, so this there's 48 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:34.560 drama and intrigue in this story. 49 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:37.319 You got pulled. Yeah, that's good. 50 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:40.719 So yeah, I met her, and you know, I bought 51 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:42.879 her lunch and I bought her some gifts, and I 52 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:47.199 was trying to woo her my way. And I think, Jeff, 53 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:52.000 there's something about being pleasantly persistent. Yes, but don't be 54 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:58.120 a stalker stalker. No, pleasantly persistent. Okay, so do not 55 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:02.960 be a stalker advocate. Yes, we are anti stalker to 56 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:04.240 be clear. Yes. 57 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:09.599 So then how long did you pleasantly persist? 58 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:13.000 It wasn't that long. They ended up breaking up. I'm 59 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.560 going to say like six months they ended up breaking up. 60 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:20.000 We started dating, but I was younger. So when I 61 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.400 met her, I was like eighteen. She was like four 62 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:25.800 or five years older. Oh So we dated for a 63 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:27.960 while and then she's like, you're too young, I can't 64 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.719 do this. So that happened for some years where we'd 65 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:33.680 get back together. She's like, no, I can't do it, 66 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.360 And then I guess I finally just stuck. I just 67 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.639 wore down. Okay, good for you, but then pleasantly persistent 68 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:41.520 not stalker. 69 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:44.199 Yes, there's the science of it, but then there's also 70 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:49.039 the art of yes, it don't be a weird Oh yes, 71 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:51.039 did you feel like you got close to being a 72 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:52.560 weirdo a little bit? Or do you feel like you 73 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:53.879 always you always managed that? 74 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:55.960 Just I think I managed it well. Her parents were 75 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:58.560 on my side, which helped. Oh that helps. So her 76 00:03:58.599 --> 00:03:59.840 parents were rooting for me. 77 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:02.919 Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, Well, maybe you should write 78 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:05.000 a book about it. Yeah, write a book for all 79 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:07.879 the people who struggle and they keep falling over the 80 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:09.000 line into stalker mode. 81 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:11.319 Don't be a weirdos the title. 82 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:15.800 Yeah, So I was thinking about that too. And I 83 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:17.920 think I've told this story on the podcast. I know 84 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:20.759 I've told it from stage before. But my wife and 85 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:24.639 I met in high school. We were seniors and we 86 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:28.040 were both musicians, and I found out about this opportunity 87 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.079 to win a scholarship at college that Bonnie's mom and 88 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:36.600 Bonnie lived at, and so I had to I lived 89 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:39.120 in Michigan. The school was down in Indiana, so I 90 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:40.879 sent my music down and Bonnie wound up being my 91 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:44.160 piano player to accompany me. And so I wound up 92 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:47.399 winning full scholarship. And when it was all done, I 93 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:49.240 wrote her a note. I was sick that whole week. 94 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:52.639 I had pneumonia, but I you know that's which is 95 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.199 Pneumonia's rough for a trumpet player. But you know, when 96 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.439 you're good, you're good, you got skilled, well, you got skills, 97 00:04:57.439 --> 00:04:58.680 You got skills, you know what I mean. 98 00:04:58.720 --> 00:04:59.680 Pneumonia can't start. 99 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:04.240 So but I was sick the whole time, so just miserable, 100 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:06.680 And so I wrote her a note, handwritten note, and 101 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:09.079 I said, thank you, Bonnie, and whatever, maybe I'll see 102 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:10.279 in the ful because I didn't decided I was going 103 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:11.399 to go at school. I just wanted to see if 104 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:14.279 I can win that scholarship. Ye, so I left her 105 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:18.399 that note. Well, Bonnie apparently was smitten, and so she 106 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:23.160 kept that card on her nightstand, and every night all 107 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:26.360 summer long she prayed that God would send me to school. 108 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:30.000 Oh wow, And so I wound up going back. We 109 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:32.680 started dating on the first day of college, and I 110 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:35.319 never dated another girl. Again. Oh wow, and so now 111 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:37.519 here I am. We've been married almost thirty three years, 112 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:40.920 and I am still literally God's answer to my wife's prayer. 113 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:45.879 We got to get Bonnie's version. 114 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:48.600 Yeah, no, that's that's a fact. You can ask her. 115 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.720 She'll tell you I am God's answer to her prayers. 116 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:54.959 And so, you know, when she gets frustrated with me, 117 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:57.519 I'm like, is that how you treat God's answer to 118 00:05:57.560 --> 00:05:58.000 your prayer? 119 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:00.000 You pray for this exactly? 120 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:01.800 Be careful what you pray for, ladies. 121 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.879 Yeah, you got it. That's pretty good. 122 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:10.639 So talking about sometimes people getting grumpy though, Yeah, that's 123 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:15.319 what we're talking about today. In the Matthew chapter eighteen, 124 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:18.800 which is an incredibly important passage, it seems like pastors 125 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.480 know this all the time. Elders will know this. When 126 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:24.160 there's a problem, people say, well, what's the Matthew eighteen solution? 127 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.000 But it's amazing to me how few church people know 128 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:31.160 Matthew eighteen right, And so this is incredibly important, I 129 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.680 think for every person listening, because there will be a 130 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.439 time when somebody offends you, and so how should a 131 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:42.839 Christian approach being offended? Excuse me, this cough just won't 132 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:44.959 go away. You got this little cough. Yeah, and it's 133 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:46.519 a tickle in the bottom of my throat. I talked 134 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:48.600 to my doctor about it, and my doctor is like, 135 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:50.800 I think you just your body has this habit now 136 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.839 of coughing. You got a little bit of inflammation. So whatever, 137 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:56.399 So I'm not sick. I just won't won't quit the 138 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:59.480 little cough anyways. Matthew Chapter eighteen, verse fifteen says, if 139 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:03.600 another sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. 140 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:07.480 If the other person listens and confesses it, you have 141 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:11.680 won that person back. But if you are unsuccessful, take 142 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:13.560 one or two others with you and go back again, 143 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:15.759 so that everything you say may be confirmed by two 144 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.240 or three witnesses. If the person still refuses to listen, 145 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:22.519 take your case to the church. Then if he or 146 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:25.560 she won't accept the church's decision, treat that person as 147 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.040 a pagan or a corrupt tax collector. I tell you 148 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:32.360 the truth, whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden 149 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:34.240 in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be 150 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:36.240 permitted in heaven. I also tell you this, If two 151 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:38.759 of you agree here on earth concerning anything you ask, 152 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:41.360 my father in Heaven will do it for you for 153 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:44.319 where two or three gathered together as my followers, I 154 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:45.600 am there among them. 155 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:49.000 So all, yeah, I like that first line. If another 156 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:54.519 believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. 157 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:56.120 I think that's key right there. 158 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:56.519 Yeah. 159 00:07:56.600 --> 00:08:00.680 It does not say go to social media and type 160 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.879 in all caps at them, and that is not what 161 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:11.120 that says. It says go privately because I think the 162 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:16.040 oftentimes when we're mad at someone, we have a tendency 163 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:20.000 to react out of our emotion then acting out of 164 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:22.839 logic or acting out of what the Bible says. So 165 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.560 I think that's super important that we go privately to 166 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:29.120 the to the person and point out the offense. Sometimes 167 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:32.159 we can find out that maybe the person didn't even 168 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:35.600 know they offended you by what they did. So before 169 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:37.799 you you know, fly off the handle, you go on 170 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:41.080 you know, your favorite social media platform and all caps, 171 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:44.320 go to the person privately and have a dialogue with them. 172 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:46.639 Yeah, I think that that that part of it. First, 173 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:53.519 what it's all about human dignity, Yeah, everybody has, there's 174 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:56.360 we all we should have a certain amount of human 175 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:59.159 dignity and a certain amount of personal pride, not the 176 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:01.240 negative kind of plight, but the kind of privately says, Hey, 177 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.039 I'm an adult man, I'm making my decisions. I'm trying 178 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:06.720 to do the best I can. And then a lot 179 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:08.799 of times what we do is we take away people's 180 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:13.639 dignity by just blasting them publicly, embarrassing them or whatever. 181 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:16.559 So there's a dignity issue, and what happens there is 182 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:20.440 if we can resolve it privately and somebody realizes, wow, 183 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.759 I did really cross line. I'm sorry. Then what you 184 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:27.000 just did is you drew them closer to you because 185 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.679 they realize you could have done a lot of damage 186 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:32.000 to them and you chose not to. And we've all 187 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:33.879 been hurt by people who blew up something that they 188 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:36.840 didn't understand and it goes public in high school, in 189 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:39.080 the halls, or you know, on social media or at 190 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:41.840 a family event or something, and what you said, you 191 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:44.559 didn't mean it that way or what they perceived isn't 192 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:47.159 what really happened, and they blow it up rather than 193 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:50.440 coming and making sure they have all the facts straight. Yeah. 194 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:53.440 But here's the funny thing, Jeff, when we do something 195 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:55.559 to someone else, this is what we want. 196 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:57.159 Yeah, yeah, we want this right. 197 00:09:58.200 --> 00:09:59.879 Yeah, come back to me privately. We'll talk about it, 198 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.360 resolve it. But when they do it to us, we're 199 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:06.759 ready to go scorched earth nuclear, you know, which is funny. 200 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:08.399 You know, it's interesting. I think the reason why we 201 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.080 go scorched durts so quickly is because we didn't confront 202 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:14.240 them early. Yeah, we just let offences build up, build up, 203 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:17.159 build up. So now in our minds, we've got twenty 204 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:20.120 offenses we're mad about, but we're blowing up about this one, 205 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:21.799 and it's the first time they're hearing about it. 206 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:25.440 And then when you fire at them over the twenty, 207 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:26.519 they're confused. 208 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:27.840 They have no idea what you're talking about. 209 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:30.679 So then now they're on defense now and they're coming 210 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.639 back at you. So it's this whole weird. 211 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:35.879 Well, I've made this mistake before, where you know, and 212 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:38.960 I've been working a lot on diplomacy lately. I've been 213 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:42.519 trying to solve this big problem overseas and a lot 214 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:46.279 of things, and I've trying to do it from a 215 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.200 biblical perspective. But even as I'm working on this big 216 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.159 project on smaller things, even in my own world, even recently, 217 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:56.919 I haven't always managed it well, particularly with the fact 218 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:00.840 that when I make a confrontation, I bring in other 219 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:04.000 things that I never never brought up before, right, And 220 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:05.799 so that's a skill set that I think you have 221 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:09.639 to just consciously constantly be working on. So I found myself, 222 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:13.960 I'm doing better if I write it out and release 223 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:16.360 it and release it that way. Well, I'll write it 224 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:17.879 out and then say, if you don't mind, I'm going 225 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:19.799 to use these notes because I don't want to say 226 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:23.039 something that's not fair. Right. But in the times I 227 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.120 didn't write it out are the times that maybe I've 228 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:27.399 said more than I needed to say, or I hurt 229 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.159 rather than helped the relationship. So that's been part of it. 230 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:37.080 You know. In Leviticus, chapter nineteen, the Bible calls for 231 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:42.200 direct confrontation. A lot of us we've been raised, you know, 232 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:45.879 maybe socially don't make a big deal about stuff or whatever. 233 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.000 But in Leviticus it says confront people directly so you'll 234 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.000 not be held guilty others in which is interesting. So 235 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:56.600 God wanted his people to have a directness about them, 236 00:11:56.919 --> 00:11:58.799 to say, hey, I don't want this to go so 237 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:01.080 long that it festers and makes us bitter towards each other. 238 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:03.279 Let's just confront it right now. Let's deal with it, 239 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:05.759 and so you don't have to be a jerk about it. 240 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:07.399 But being direct about. 241 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.039 It is you know, I think that's the key, and 242 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.159 I just want to make sure people understand that as 243 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:17.159 they're listening. Yes, be direct, Yes, confront the thing directly. 244 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:19.000 But you know, you don't have to be a jerk. 245 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:22.039 You don't have to, you know, hurt their feelings. You 246 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:23.919 don't have to do any of those other things. But yes, 247 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:24.600 be direct. 248 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:27.200 You don't have to intentionally hurt their feelings. Yeah, perhaps 249 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:30.519 the confrontation itself hurts their feelings, but you're trying to 250 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:32.799 bring correction. Yes, you know, whether we're talking with our 251 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:35.039 teenagers or whether we're talking with a friend or a 252 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:39.120 sibling or a coworker, sometimes the confrontation itself has a 253 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:41.960 certain amount of pain because nobody wants to be told 254 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:45.200 that their behavior is offensive. Yeah, right, so that brings 255 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:46.679 a little bit of pain. But what you're not doing 256 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:49.440 is you're not trying to punish them or hurt them. 257 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:55.000 You're trying to repair both the relationship and correct the behavior. 258 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.480 That's why Jesus tells us to speak the truth in love, 259 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:01.360 Paul says in Romans thirteen, Corinthian is thirteen, I'm sorry 260 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:05.559 that we can have the tongues of angels and we 261 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:08.879 have the power to move mountains. Faith nobody can just 262 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:11.759 even imagine. And he said, but if you don't have love, 263 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.399 you're nothing, meaning you get a zero on your score card. 264 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:19.519 You can speak like angels and your faith can move mountains, 265 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:23.000 but without love, you get a zero on your score card. 266 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:25.480 So love is the first thing, and you have to 267 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.799 do that. So that would be, I think, the first idea. 268 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:31.440 And then as you look at it, there's a heart 269 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:34.159 behind this, and this is where the human dignity comes from. 270 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:38.159 It comes into play. You know. In Galatians chapter six, 271 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:44.200 it says to correct somebody humbly and gently. So you know, 272 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:50.360 I found myself on occasion wanting to come in really 273 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:55.559 heavy and mad and then realizing I can't be leading 274 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:57.879 this meeting or this discussion right now, and I have 275 00:13:57.919 --> 00:13:59.600 to pull back. And I found other times when I 276 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:03.200 just went, know, I'm gonna unleash, and that always is 277 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:06.159 the worst way. Yeah, it never fixes things. But if 278 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:09.320 you can come in humbly and gently to help that 279 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.120 person back, is what Galatian says. Yeah, that's what you're 280 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:13.879 trying to do and so that's why you would go 281 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:15.679 just one on one first. 282 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:19.799 And then it says, if the other person listens and 283 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:21.759 confesses it, you won the person back. 284 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:22.320 Yeah, how good. 285 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:23.320 You fix the problem. 286 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:24.039 That's the whole goal. 287 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.639 Yeah, so you fixed it right there. But then I 288 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:29.679 like how it says, but if you are unsuccessful, So 289 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:32.279 now what do you do? So you went to the person, 290 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:35.919 you try to have a dialogue with them, it blew up. 291 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:38.080 You try to be humble, you try to have a 292 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:40.559 good heart about it. Now what do you do? Yeah, 293 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:42.679 it's kind of where it goes from there. 294 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:47.639 Well, sometimes, you know, because of our need for human 295 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:50.320 dignity and perhaps because of other wounds that people have 296 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.360 given us, sometimes people can become very protective, Yeah, and 297 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:58.200 either be blind to what they did or so protective 298 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:00.960 of themselves they can't admit what they did. Right. So 299 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:05.000 now it's just your word versus their word, and there's 300 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.559 no hope of turning that behavior around if they're rejecting 301 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.440 even the premise behind what you're bringing up. So then 302 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.200 in order to preserve dignity, but at the same time 303 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:18.799 push truth forward, then Jesus says, bring two or three witnesses. Right, 304 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:21.720 So bring two or three people either that know the 305 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:25.960 circumstance or that can also witness the conversation. Yes, right, 306 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:28.360 so there, it's kind of a it's flip sides of 307 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:31.000 the same coin. You know, you want them now, Hey, 308 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:34.679 this may turn somewhat adversarial. So you need witnesses for 309 00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:37.519 the conversation itself, yes, But then if you can bring 310 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.159 witnesses that also were part of, or had seen or 311 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.559 were aware of this circumstance before, that also can kind 312 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:46.240 of put some you know, cause the person to lay 313 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.399 down and lay down their weapons and go okay, yeah, 314 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:49.320 I see what you mean now. 315 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:52.799 And I would also add witnesses with wisdom and a 316 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:57.000 neutral perspective. You're not bringing witnesses to take your side. 317 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:58.480 That's not why you're. 318 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:03.600 Bringing the witnesses. Bringing the witnesses to witness, but also 319 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:06.440 you're bringing them to bring a resolution to what's going on, 320 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:09.320 not to Yeah see, yeah, they are right, that's what 321 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:12.080 they'll No, that's not why you're bringing the witnesses. 322 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.759 So you know, Jesus is John tells us Jesus is 323 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.639 the Word, and the word was with God, and the 324 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:20.840 word was God. And then he became one of us. 325 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:24.120 That's what the John chapter one tells us. So it's 326 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:26.759 amazing to me when Jesus teaches us principles and we 327 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:28.519 look at those and go, oh hey, this is great. 328 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:31.919 This really, this is a good idea. Go privately, preserve 329 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.360 the dignity. See if you can restore the relationship. If 330 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.320 the behavior doesn't change and they don't accept it, bring 331 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.360 some witnesses back. That's great. Well he's quoting it. Well 332 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:44.360 he's suggesting biblical principle here Leviticus or no, Deuteronomy, I'm sorry. 333 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:49.840 Deuteronomy chapter nineteen, verse fifteen talks about establishing the facts 334 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.759 by two or three witnesses. Right, So don't just as 335 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:58.919 a governments, as a leader, as an organizational representative, don't 336 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:00.759 accept the accusation of one person. 337 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:03.639 Which is there's great wisdom in that everyone has blind spots. 338 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:06.880 You know, you may see there. There could be something 339 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.400 that happens in the room that we're in right now. 340 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:12.519 From the seat and angle that you are in, the 341 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:15.119 seat and angle that I am, we could see the 342 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:19.680 exact same thing, completely different and it was the same event, right, yeah. 343 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:23.000 Yeah, same event, different different experiences, yeah, the same event, 344 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:29.400 yeah yeah, So this idea of two or three witnesses, 345 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:36.319 he's not saying, don't don't receive an accusation, right, I 346 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:39.079 think you can. You can have the accusation. What he's 347 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:42.720 saying is with that accusation, that may open up an 348 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:46.240 inquiry or an investigation. But it's hard to hang a 349 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:49.759 person on one claim. Yes, and that's really what he's 350 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:52.720 trying to say. So two or three witnesses then really 351 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:54.880 gives a lot of confirmation. It gives a lot of 352 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:58.640 strength and weight to the accusation and makes it difficult 353 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:02.079 more difficult perhaps for the accused to wiggle out of 354 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.839 it unless they have a legitimate response. Right. 355 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:09.000 Well, in legal scenarios, like in a trial or an investigation, 356 00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:12.519 they always ask and someone corroborate the story. Yeah, yeah, 357 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:14.279 you know, that's what they're always trying. This. Is there 358 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:17.160 another person that can confirm what you're saying? 359 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:17.440 Yeah? 360 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:17.799 Yeah. 361 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:23.240 In First Timothy five, Paul is teaching Timothy how the 362 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:27.200 church should function, and he says, hey, don't receive an 363 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.960 accusation against an elder, you know, for removal in leadership, 364 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:34.160 except if it's established in the mouths of two or 365 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:37.680 three witnesses. Yeah. So in that situation when it comes to, 366 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:43.079 you know, confronting leadership. Paul is telling Timothy, hey, whenever 367 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.720 an accusation comes, because people can accuse. Yeah, we live 368 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.759 in a cancel society today, you know. And I was 369 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.000 just listening to a friend of mine. He was talking 370 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:53.839 about Abdu Murray is a friend of ours here in 371 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:56.400 the area. He's a great thinker and apologists and those things. 372 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:00.480 And Abdu was talking about how cancel culture is very 373 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.119 much an Eastern mindset rather than a Western mindset. The 374 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.640 Western mindset and enlightened mindset, having gone through the Enlightenment, 375 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.160 usually has individual responsibility and autonomy, with the ability then 376 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:16.279 to engage in debate without accusation and without fear, that 377 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:18.920 each of us are free to say what we believe in, 378 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.440 what we think right, the whole free free speech kind 379 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:25.319 of concept. And then in the Western culture, the Western 380 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:28.079 culture is right and wrong. That's the way that we 381 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:30.559 view things, and so it's right or wrong based on 382 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:33.079 your perception and based on the laws of God and 383 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:36.119 the laws of man, and so then open debate is 384 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.960 a part of it. But in the Eastern mindset, it's 385 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:42.000 less about right and wrong and more about honor and dishonor, 386 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:46.839 and the honored dishonored thing often becomes weaponized. It's not 387 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:51.079 really about finding ways to honor. It's usually about weaponizing 388 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:54.799 dishonor to embarrassing. And that's what cancel culture is. Cancel 389 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:58.319 culture is. Now, we've kind of walked away from a 390 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:02.240 lot of this Enlightenment idea. And I don't know that 391 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:04.279 ab do you use the idea of enlightenment, but this 392 00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:06.319 is where I took it. We've walked away from the 393 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:11.359 Enlightenment in the Western linear logical thinking, and we've embraced 394 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.559 this cancel honor, honor dishonor culture, and we've weaponized honor 395 00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:18.759 or weaponized dishonor, quite honestly. And so this is what 396 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.920 Jesus is warning us about. Don't become cancel culture people. 397 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:27.480 Instead use evidence, use proofs, and do it privately and 398 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:30.079 then and then still keep it fairly private with two 399 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:32.319 or three witnesses. You're not bringing this into a full 400 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:35.400 blown trial. It's just two or three witnesses. And then 401 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.160