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This file was generated by Descript 

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Introduction: Welcome to the
Fiscal Firehouse, a podcast

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dedicated to promoting financial
literacy to firefighters.

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I'm your co-host, John Beatty, executive
board member of Local 1309, a lieutenant,

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and also a certified financial planner.

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With me, I have the other co-host of the
fiscal firehouse, Louis Barella, executive

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Board member of Local 1309 ambulance
driver, and want to be financial expert.

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Together, John and I hope to bring
clarity to the world of personal finance,

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specifically relating to firefighters.

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Firefighting is a
difficult job making sound.

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Financial decisions shouldn't be.

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In today's episode of the fiscal
firehouse, John and Louie tackled

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the difficult topic of debt.

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John and Louie talk about the
emotional responses associated

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with debt, including fear, anxiety,
shame, and even hopelessness.

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Your two hosts debate the concept
of good debt versus bad debt.

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Is there such a thing?

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John and Louie will demystify how
credit scores are calculated and

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actionable items to start improving
your financial future today.

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Lastly, John and Louie discuss in their
opinions the biggest risk factors for

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firefighters getting and staying out
of debt, the dreaded truck payment.

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Without further ado, let's kick it
over to local 1309 studios and the

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recording of the fiscal firehouse.

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Jon: Welcome back to another
episode of the Fiscal Firehouse.

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Louie: Don't call it a comeback.

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We've been here.

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we've been here.

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all along.

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Jon: We come

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Louie: Yep.

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Yep.

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Jon: That's right.

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I'm your co-host John
Beatty With Me, as always.

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We're in his best.

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Michigan Blue, my partner
in crime, Louis Barilla.

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What's up, lb?

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Louie: Oh, dude, it has been
a summer for both of us.

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I mean, we did not want to take a hiatus.

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That was never our plan.

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But I mean, life comes at you fast.

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You've been crazy busy at the
training center, Had family

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stuff, all the summer stuff.

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Summer's hard.

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Like summer is really hard.

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I'm learning that now that I have
three boys who are active and

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have things on their schedule.

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I think every day during four
day I have something going on.

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that's just how it has been in the summer.

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Jon: Yeah.

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you've been at it as well.

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And man, I've never been so happy to,
have public school kickoff tomorrow.

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we need some routine at
the Beatty household.

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I love my kids, but they are,
they're driving me crazy.

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Louie: to go

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Jon: It's time to go back.

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It's time

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Louie: back.

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I get that.

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I get that.

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I think I, I was telling Caitlyn just
recently, I'm looking forward to the fall,

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not because we have things planned out,
but because we don't have things planned.

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out.

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Jon: Oh, slow down a little bit and

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Louie: summer's fun, but man, it
wears on You like having stuff

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every four day, like there's always
something going on and it's like, we

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didn't have time for a lot of stuff.

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Like, just for hanging out,
relaxing, doing this podcast.

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Even like, I know we tried a couple
times to get something on the calendar.

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and It was just tough.

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So I'm excited.

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Looking forward to the end of
summer, the beginning of fall.

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and I'm super excited to be
back doing the podcast again.

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I know we've had some good stuff that
we have lined up that we want to talk

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about, so I'm excited to be back.

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Thanks for bearing with us
to all of our fans out there.

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Both of you guys.

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Jon: Yeah.

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There's at least there's one subscriber.

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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Thanks for that.

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but it, yeah, Louis
said it best as always.

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this is something that we've taken
a lot of pride in and we wanted to

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try to keep up the momentum with
releasing at least one episode a month.

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But, yeah, summer came and went and
we just didn't get ahead of the curve.

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So in the future, I think we'll
probably preload some episodes so

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we can continue on, on kind of a
monthly drop, which is just nice.

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So, without further ado though,
we will, we'll kick it off and,

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we're gonna mix it up a little bit.

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And today, what are we gonna talk about?

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Lb

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Louie: This is gonna be the debt episode.

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Everyone's Favorite most exciting episode,
most exciting topic to talk about.

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Is debt.

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Right.

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So

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Jon: love it.

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Love it.

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And what's your, I think it was your
uncle, what was this saying about debt?

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He, the man with the most
debt wins or something.

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What was that, did that
come from a Brother Barella

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Louie: episode?

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I don't know if that was, I feel like
there was something about that I have

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another uncle, he was a former Denver
firefighter, retired Denver firefighter

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who always said happiness is paying cash.

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He was very anti.

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Jon: Oh, okay.

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Okay.

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So

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Louie: there's a lot of anti debt
feelings in my family too, which

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is probably where I got some of it.

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Sure, sure.

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And, and we'll kind of talk about that.

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But you know, John, I think the
first thing we need to do is talk

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about the feelings surrounding debt.

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Because I'm sure people are starting this
podcast right now, hearing that we're

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talking about debt and they're like, I

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Jon: snooze alert, they
shut this thing off.

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Ah.

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Louie: And that's because there's a lot
of like negative feelings about debt.

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There's a lot of hard feelings,
there's a lot of shame.

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There's a lot of regrets related
to debt that people have taken on

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or can't pay back quick enough or.

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Maybe have even defaulted on.

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and that makes it hard to talk about.

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So I think that we want to do
this episode not to make you feel

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guilty, not to make you feel like
you're alone or you're on an island.

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This is something that a
lot of people struggle with.

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It is hard to live in this society
without this feeling that you need

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to have debt or that, that it's an
okay thing or it's a good thing.

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So we wanna talk about that.

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We wanna talk about those
feelings surrounding debt.

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We want to talk about why it could be bad.

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We want to talk about if there's such
a thing as good debt, and maybe some of

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the traps that are easy to fall into so
that you can avoid them in the future.

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So don't feel bad, don't feel guilty.

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We don't want you to feel like
you're the, only person listening

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to this that's struggling with debt.

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Like this is something that
Americans struggle with in general.

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And so we want to give you some knowledge
in order to be able to navigate the

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pitfalls of debt because most of
us, at one point or another have.

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Fallen into one of those traps, right?

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Jon: Yeah, that's well said.

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And that's one of those things
that, debt, really, it'll go across

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all socioeconomic divides as well.

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Mm-hmm.

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Not just people that are on the lower
end of the socioeconomic spectrum, but

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even those people that are, you know,
white collar, one percenters man, they

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have sometimes the most debt and really
struggle with trying to pay bills, you

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know, truly living paycheck to paycheck
so you can live paycheck to paycheck

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and, you know, make 50 grand a year.

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You can live paycheck to paycheck
and make $10 million a year.

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It's really just about how
much money you're spending.

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So we're just gonna give you a little
bit more, education surrounding this.

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This is one of the things that when Louie
and I sit down with our recruits for kind

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of our finance 1 0 1 for firefighters
discussion, this is always the one that

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I'm, I'm surprised at how much discussion.

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Debt generates.

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Yeah.

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When we're talking about credit cards,
when we're talking about mortgages,

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when we're talking about loans, and
I think that's just because there's

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still a lot of misinformation out of
there, about how debt works and how

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credit cards work and even how to
calculate interest, all this other stuff.

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There's just a lot of, there's a lot
of questions surrounding this that

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people, much to what you talked about,
internally kind of struggle with.

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Bringing it up.

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'cause it's, it's a source of conflict for
them or a, a source of, shame sometimes.

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Yeah.

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So that's really what we're trying to
do here is keep this just like we do

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at the firehouse table where we, you
know, share our most intimate secrets.

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this is one of those things that we're
gonna tell it to you, you know, from

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Louie and I's experience as well.

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I've struggled with this just as
much as anyone else, so it really is

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from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

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You're, you're right in there with us
if you've, you know, had high credit

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card balances where you're wondering how
you're going to, how you're gonna pay

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those off, or, you know, you took out too
much of a loan payment on a, on a truck.

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The old 1309 edition, man,
I've lived there, done that.

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So it's, you, you, you welcome aboard.

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Yep.

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You know, it's, it's part of that deal.

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So it's one of those things that
we strive for here is, one of the

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things that I love about the fire
services, we're always trying to

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improve it for the next generation.

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And this is just one of those things
that, you know, maybe we can share

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a couple of our stories to try to
help, prevent you guys from future

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situations that we've run into.

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Louie: Yeah, that sounds good.

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said John.

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I think, before we delve into the couple
topics we're gonna talk about related to

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debt, we just want to zoom out real quick
and say why we're talking about debt.

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you know, our goal in this episode is
not to say that you are right, or you're

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wrong for having debt, or to judge you for
that, but we wanna provide some insight

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as to why we believe paying off debt and
becoming debt free is a fundamental step

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in your journey to financial independence.

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So we've talked about this
on different episodes before.

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I think even one of our first
or second episode we ever did.

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We talked about the steps to becoming
financial independent, and we distilled

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it down to three steps, right?

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And it's like our used
car salesman pitch is

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Jon: like three simple steps, baby,

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Louie: steps, three simple steps.

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Not easy, but simple, right?

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Those steps are, number
one, live below your means.

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Number two, get out and stay out of debt.

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And number three, invest early and often.

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So this is that.

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Step two, it's hard to do.

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Number three, invest early and often.

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If you don't take care
of step two, which is,

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get out and stay outta debt.

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So that's why we're talking about it.

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That's why we think it's important.

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And we think that, you know, the center,
at the center of becoming financially

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independent is the getting out and
staying outta debt, because that's

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what Americans struggle with the most.

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That's what firefighters
struggle with the most.

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And there's always temptation,
right, to, get into debt now.

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So you can have whatever you
want right now instead of later.

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and we just, we know that that is always
gonna be present throughout your life and

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it's okay that, that temptation is there.

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And it's okay if you have, debt
right now that you haven't paid off.

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there are ways and strategies that we'll
talk about for paying off that debt.

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but we don't want it to hinder your
number one wealth building tool, which is

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your income, and that's what debt does.

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It robs you from that.

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So that's where we're at.

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And that's the high level view
of why we're talking about it

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and why we think it's important.

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Jon: Yeah.

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It's, interesting when, when you're
talking about temptations, I just, I

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started to think about just how good
technology has gotten specifically

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algorithms and marketing to where
they can target you specifically.

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And even sometimes you're like,
you didn't even do a Google

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search or a chat GBT search.

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You're literally just chatting about
something with your friends, and

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then all of a sudden you look on your
phone and it's literally right there

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being like, how perfect is this?

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so yeah, the temptations
have never been greater.

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honestly, and how they can drill
down onto your every want or desire.

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And now, because once again
of technology, it's so easy.

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One click payments sometimes, apple
Pay here, you don't even have to

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bring out a physical card anymore.

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It's just with your
phone within a proximity.

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Like they really have taken all the
friction out of transactions and just

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made it as simple as possible, which just
makes it that much more difficult when

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you're talking about tracking expenses.

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How much did I really spend?

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How much money do I have?

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All these things.

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Louie: John, I was thinking about this.

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We were, I think we were talking about
this at the fire station not too long ago.

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is if you are one of our younger guys Yep.

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Or gals on, online.

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you don't really ever deal with cash.

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Everything is Venmo.

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Credit cards, maybe a debit card,
but you don't see like that.

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You don't see or experience the
physical cash going away from you

00:10:21.151 --> 00:10:22.471
to realize like how much you have.

00:10:22.471 --> 00:10:25.921
They're all just numbers on a
digital screen that kind of tell

00:10:25.921 --> 00:10:28.621
you what you have or what you owe.

00:10:28.861 --> 00:10:32.071
And it's, it's weird to get a,
a strong sense of Hey, this is

00:10:32.101 --> 00:10:34.621
more money come going out than
it's coming in, or whatever.

00:10:34.651 --> 00:10:38.101
When you're just dealing with that,
and that's hard for anyone, even people

00:10:38.101 --> 00:10:39.571
who have dealt with cash in the past.

00:10:39.571 --> 00:10:44.941
But if you're a younger person, 21, 22,
23, you're, you probably don't have a lot

00:10:44.941 --> 00:10:48.841
of experience with physical cash because
everything you know is so digitalized.

00:10:49.171 --> 00:10:53.581
Super easy to fall into into those buy
now, pay later traps, credit card traps

00:10:53.671 --> 00:10:57.961
without even realizing, The pain that
comes with spending all that money.

00:10:58.111 --> 00:10:58.201
Yeah.

00:10:58.201 --> 00:10:58.891
that's tough.

00:10:58.966 --> 00:10:59.806
Jon: That is very tough.

00:10:59.806 --> 00:11:02.686
And there's actually quite a few
studies that have shown how much

00:11:02.686 --> 00:11:06.706
more money you are likely to spend
when you don't have like physical

00:11:06.706 --> 00:11:08.466
currency, like fiat currency.

00:11:08.466 --> 00:11:09.996
So paper money or coins.

00:11:10.216 --> 00:11:13.576
once again, just because the ease
of use, so to speak, and being

00:11:13.576 --> 00:11:15.706
able to make those transactions.

00:11:15.706 --> 00:11:17.056
So we're definitely with you.

00:11:17.056 --> 00:11:17.806
We understand that.

00:11:17.806 --> 00:11:20.926
Like I, I never hardly
ever carry cash as well.

00:11:20.926 --> 00:11:23.326
I, I'm typically a digital person as well.

00:11:23.356 --> 00:11:27.526
so I definitely have those same reactions
and those same emotions, but it's

00:11:27.616 --> 00:11:29.476
definitely a generational gap as well.

00:11:29.476 --> 00:11:33.596
Whereas like my grandfather, and my
father-in-law, all they do is carry cash.

00:11:33.626 --> 00:11:35.756
Like literally never have any plastic.

00:11:35.756 --> 00:11:36.566
It's just cold, hard

00:11:36.776 --> 00:11:37.451
Louie: a wad of cash.

00:11:37.586 --> 00:11:38.636
Jon: just a wad of cash.

00:11:38.636 --> 00:11:43.736
So shout out to Big Frank for his big
old gangster wad of ones, Francis.

00:11:43.736 --> 00:11:43.976
Yep.

00:11:43.976 --> 00:11:46.316
Carrying a lot of that ca cold hard cash.

00:11:46.316 --> 00:11:46.326
Yep.

00:11:47.671 --> 00:11:51.071
Louie: so John, I mentioned that,
debt, the reason, the problem that

00:11:51.071 --> 00:11:53.291
we have with it, if you wanna say,
John and I have a problem with it,

00:11:53.321 --> 00:11:56.411
it's because we think it robs you
from your number one wealth building

00:11:56.411 --> 00:11:58.761
tool, which is, which is your income.

00:11:58.791 --> 00:12:02.631
That is your, your source of, of
inflow that you can use to invest, that

00:12:02.631 --> 00:12:04.131
you can use to save for retirement.

00:12:04.131 --> 00:12:07.521
But if you're paying debt, if
you have a bunch of debt that

00:12:07.521 --> 00:12:10.491
you need to make payments on,
it's kind of robbing from that.

00:12:10.941 --> 00:12:14.001
So in order to talk about that, I
think we need to take a little bit of

00:12:14.001 --> 00:12:18.011
a detour here and talk about, something
that I really like to talk about.

00:12:18.011 --> 00:12:19.871
I think this is a great
way to make decisions.

00:12:20.151 --> 00:12:23.031
and it's the old idea of opportunity cost.

00:12:23.086 --> 00:12:25.726
Jon: Oh, this is your big
Michigan brain out at, it's fine.

00:12:25.726 --> 00:12:29.476
It, this is econ 1 0 1,
business Strategy 1 0 1.

00:12:29.476 --> 00:12:29.806
Yes.

00:12:29.806 --> 00:12:29.986
You

00:12:30.036 --> 00:12:30.546
Louie: to talk about

00:12:30.786 --> 00:12:31.386
Jon: opportunity

00:12:31.596 --> 00:12:34.226
Louie: We talk about this, to the
new guys when we give them our

00:12:34.226 --> 00:12:35.996
presentation, our financial presentation.

00:12:36.426 --> 00:12:38.856
and it's a really kind of enlightening
conversation 'cause we get to

00:12:38.856 --> 00:12:40.596
interact with the new folks.

00:12:40.936 --> 00:12:41.926
who are still in the academy.

00:12:41.926 --> 00:12:45.406
And ask them what if they know
what opportunity cost is, if they

00:12:45.406 --> 00:12:48.436
are, if they have an idea, if
they use it to make decisions.

00:12:48.676 --> 00:12:51.106
But it's something that a lot
of people might not be familiar

00:12:51.106 --> 00:12:55.036
with if you are not used to the
economic decision making process.

00:12:55.066 --> 00:12:56.806
Now, full disclosure,
I'm not an economist.

00:12:57.146 --> 00:13:00.716
I went to Michigan where I did
not major in economics, but I

00:13:00.716 --> 00:13:02.336
took a lot of economics classes.

00:13:02.516 --> 00:13:06.186
And this is something that,
economists use to make decisions.

00:13:06.336 --> 00:13:08.316
Business leaders use
this to make decisions.

00:13:08.766 --> 00:13:12.851
So the way that we do it, in our
class for the new recruits is

00:13:12.851 --> 00:13:13.991
kind of what we're gonna do here.

00:13:14.051 --> 00:13:18.081
I'm gonna give you an example and John,
you can, tell me if I'm missing the boat

00:13:18.081 --> 00:13:19.611
here or If I don't have the right idea.

00:13:19.611 --> 00:13:20.661
But here we go.

00:13:20.871 --> 00:13:23.211
So this is the example that
we give in our presentation.

00:13:23.631 --> 00:13:25.251
Jon: And I'm glad that
you've updated this.

00:13:25.251 --> 00:13:27.951
'cause when Louis first did
this, right around COVID, he was

00:13:27.951 --> 00:13:29.471
talking about, movie tickets.

00:13:29.471 --> 00:13:31.811
And I'm like, dude, when was the
last time you were at a movie?

00:13:32.081 --> 00:13:33.341
1984.

00:13:33.341 --> 00:13:34.421
Louie: I think they're still wrong.

00:13:34.421 --> 00:13:35.351
I think I need to go higher.

00:13:35.351 --> 00:13:36.881
These are like matinee prices.

00:13:37.331 --> 00:13:38.021
Jon: with the kids.

00:13:38.021 --> 00:13:38.201
Yeah.

00:13:38.201 --> 00:13:41.696
This is not a Friday night
new release going to the 9:00

00:13:41.696 --> 00:13:43.481
AM show or the 9:00 PM show.

00:13:43.511 --> 00:13:44.201
Exactly.

00:13:44.456 --> 00:13:46.376
Louie: But I don't go to the movies
anymore, so I don't know what

00:13:46.376 --> 00:13:47.786
the prices are, but here we go.

00:13:48.086 --> 00:13:50.876
There's a first grade firefighter
paramedic that's standing in line

00:13:51.026 --> 00:13:54.476
at a movie theater at 5:00 PM
He's gonna buy a movie ticket.

00:13:54.966 --> 00:13:58.026
and I put down here $14, but
it's probably more than that.

00:13:58.026 --> 00:13:58.206
Right?

00:13:58.206 --> 00:13:59.136
It's probably 20 bucks.

00:13:59.271 --> 00:14:02.301
Jon: It might be, yeah, 16, 18,
depending on whether you got

00:14:02.301 --> 00:14:04.011
going to the A MC or the imax.

00:14:04.011 --> 00:14:04.071
The

00:14:04.086 --> 00:14:06.366
Louie: you're gonna The
IMAX or the regular, yeah.

00:14:06.371 --> 00:14:06.491
Yeah.

00:14:06.856 --> 00:14:09.886
he's gonna buy a medium popcorn or
a small popcorn for eight bucks.

00:14:10.216 --> 00:14:13.366
And let's say he's gonna
buy a Coca-Cola for $5.

00:14:13.426 --> 00:14:16.846
So the total that he's gonna
charge to his credit card.

00:14:17.101 --> 00:14:18.481
Of course you gotta
pay on your credit card

00:14:18.511 --> 00:14:19.171
Jon: points, baby.

00:14:19.171 --> 00:14:20.071
I need the points.

00:14:20.071 --> 00:14:21.421
I need some miles sent

00:14:21.421 --> 00:14:21.781
Louie: back.

00:14:21.781 --> 00:14:24.991
I need those two times miles
on entertainment purchases.

00:14:25.171 --> 00:14:27.991
He's gonna charge about
30 bucks with taxes.

00:14:27.991 --> 00:14:29.611
It's gonna be around $30, let's say.

00:14:29.731 --> 00:14:30.121
Okay.

00:14:30.451 --> 00:14:34.501
So while he's standing in line, he
gets that beautiful text from vector

00:14:34.501 --> 00:14:39.751
scheduling for a 12 hour overtime shift
that starts that evening at 7:00 PM and

00:14:39.751 --> 00:14:41.821
it goes to 7:00 AM the next day, 12 hours.

00:14:42.151 --> 00:14:45.511
He ignores that text, that vector
scheduling text, even though he

00:14:45.511 --> 00:14:48.871
could easily respond to it and take
it, and he completes his purchase.

00:14:49.051 --> 00:14:54.551
So my question to the audience is what
did it cost him to go to the movie?

00:14:54.926 --> 00:14:55.736
Jon: 30 bucks, right?

00:14:55.736 --> 00:14:55.796
Yeah.

00:14:55.826 --> 00:15:01.496
Because it was the popcorn, it was the
ticket, it was the Coca-Cola plus taxes.

00:15:01.546 --> 00:15:03.766
and we'll say that this is a good
firefighter and that they pay off

00:15:03.766 --> 00:15:05.326
their credit card every month.

00:15:05.356 --> 00:15:05.446
Yep.

00:15:05.446 --> 00:15:08.566
no, they didn't get charged interest
for their payment, but let's say, yeah.

00:15:08.566 --> 00:15:09.496
So 30 bucks.

00:15:09.556 --> 00:15:09.736
Yeah.

00:15:09.781 --> 00:15:11.761
Louie: Cost him $30 wrong.

00:15:12.181 --> 00:15:13.921
It costs him more than that.

00:15:14.131 --> 00:15:16.531
And that's where the idea of
opportunity cost comes in.

00:15:16.531 --> 00:15:20.341
Opportunity cost is what you give
up when you choose between options.

00:15:20.341 --> 00:15:22.621
It's always fun to ask the recruits that.

00:15:22.621 --> 00:15:24.781
'cause a lot of people will
think like it's 30 bucks, right?

00:15:24.781 --> 00:15:25.531
that's what it is.

00:15:26.131 --> 00:15:29.401
There's always a few people in there that,
know they're like, nah, it doesn't sound

00:15:29.401 --> 00:15:30.871
right 'cause he gave up something else.

00:15:30.871 --> 00:15:31.141
Right?

00:15:31.141 --> 00:15:35.221
They intuitively know that you could
have made more money or you could

00:15:35.221 --> 00:15:37.921
have made money doing something
else, but you chose not to do it.

00:15:37.921 --> 00:15:40.081
And that's what
opportunity costs, Cost is.

00:15:40.351 --> 00:15:41.161
It's a key component.

00:15:41.161 --> 00:15:41.971
Business decisions.

00:15:42.331 --> 00:15:45.271
And a lot of people consider it
the true cost of doing something

00:15:45.271 --> 00:15:48.811
because it's what you give up
when you choose between options.

00:15:49.231 --> 00:15:53.596
So with debt, John, the, the reason
why we say this is a bigger deal

00:15:53.596 --> 00:15:58.006
than just the simple interest rate
is because opportunity cost is the

00:15:58.006 --> 00:16:02.476
amount of money you could have earned
by investing your money instead

00:16:02.476 --> 00:16:03.916
of paying interest to the lender.

00:16:04.546 --> 00:16:06.736
So then we like to talk about
the firefighter's favorite,

00:16:06.736 --> 00:16:07.606
which is a new truck.

00:16:07.786 --> 00:16:07.876
Yeah.

00:16:07.906 --> 00:16:11.656
John, you mentioned the Ford F
1309, which is super common for

00:16:11.896 --> 00:16:13.606
new recruits to buy right after.

00:16:13.621 --> 00:16:14.251
Jon: the, what did you say?

00:16:14.251 --> 00:16:15.271
It's now GMC.

00:16:15.271 --> 00:16:16.291
Is that the or Chevy?

00:16:16.291 --> 00:16:17.861
Is that the truck of choice by the, yeah,

00:16:17.896 --> 00:16:18.856
Louie: the little side generation.

00:16:18.916 --> 00:16:22.036
little side note, I don't know if
everyone else has recognized this,

00:16:22.036 --> 00:16:23.416
but I feel like it comes in waves.

00:16:23.416 --> 00:16:26.746
there are, I don't know if it's
like model years, you know, or, or

00:16:27.346 --> 00:16:30.346
consumer reports or what determines,
but it seems like you'll go to a,

00:16:30.496 --> 00:16:32.266
you'll go to different fire stations.

00:16:32.566 --> 00:16:34.936
And you will see oh, right now
all the people coming out of

00:16:34.936 --> 00:16:36.961
academy are buying the Tundra

00:16:37.201 --> 00:16:38.911
Jon: tundras were big for a long time.

00:16:38.911 --> 00:16:39.151
Yep.

00:16:39.181 --> 00:16:42.191
Louie: then it was like, it was
the Rams like the Rams were huge.

00:16:42.191 --> 00:16:44.231
And now I see a lot of Chevy.

00:16:44.231 --> 00:16:44.981
A lot of GMs.

00:16:44.981 --> 00:16:46.631
Like those are really popular right now.

00:16:46.636 --> 00:16:46.746
Yeah.

00:16:46.901 --> 00:16:47.441
I don't know.

00:16:47.441 --> 00:16:48.131
I don't know what.

00:16:48.461 --> 00:16:49.901
Jon: They got a good,
they got a good deal.

00:16:50.021 --> 00:16:51.491
Louie: got a, everyone gets a good

00:16:51.491 --> 00:16:52.001
Jon: a guy.

00:16:52.031 --> 00:16:53.771
They got a guy and they got a good deal.

00:16:53.771 --> 00:16:55.211
They got the firefighter discount.

00:16:55.331 --> 00:16:57.101
Louie: one's ever gotten
a bad deal on a new car.

00:16:57.101 --> 00:16:57.611
I'm convinced.

00:16:57.611 --> 00:17:00.371
I've never heard a firefighter
tell me that they got fleeced,

00:17:00.401 --> 00:17:01.481
when it came to getting their

00:17:01.571 --> 00:17:02.681
Jon: I just got taken.

00:17:02.831 --> 00:17:03.521
Louie: Oh my gosh.

00:17:03.881 --> 00:17:06.171
But so then we drive it home for
firefighters, and this is where it gets

00:17:06.221 --> 00:17:08.741
personal for a lot of firefighters, and
they start getting offended by this.

00:17:08.741 --> 00:17:13.451
But if you had a 25-year-old firefighter
who graduated the academy and he got

00:17:13.451 --> 00:17:18.011
an average new car payment, which,
John, what is the average new car

00:17:18.011 --> 00:17:19.631
payment in the United States today?

00:17:20.021 --> 00:17:23.801
Jon: If this has been updated,
it's almost 750 bucks per month.

00:17:23.831 --> 00:17:25.901
Louie: $750 a month.

00:17:25.901 --> 00:17:27.791
That means that anytime you see a new car.

00:17:28.121 --> 00:17:31.271
Driving down the road, there's
a good chance that it ha that

00:17:31.271 --> 00:17:32.441
it's towing around with it.

00:17:32.441 --> 00:17:34.631
A $750 car payment.

00:17:34.901 --> 00:17:37.121
Jon: And that's just for the,
that's just for your payment.

00:17:37.121 --> 00:17:40.031
That doesn't include the insurance and
the maintenance and everything else.

00:17:40.031 --> 00:17:42.641
That's truly just to pay
back what you have borrowed?

00:17:42.671 --> 00:17:43.541
Louie: That's what you borrowed.

00:17:43.541 --> 00:17:43.571
Okay.

00:17:44.171 --> 00:17:48.526
And the average length of a new
car loan is about six years.

00:17:48.531 --> 00:17:48.741
Yep.

00:17:49.066 --> 00:17:51.616
So $750 for six years.

00:17:51.826 --> 00:17:54.436
So the total price someone would
pay over that six years, you just

00:17:54.436 --> 00:17:57.136
take $745 a month, multiply it by

00:17:57.431 --> 00:17:58.966
Jon: 72, 72, or Yep.

00:17:59.381 --> 00:18:00.196
Louie: 72 months.

00:18:00.496 --> 00:18:04.186
And that would be about $53,640.

00:18:04.456 --> 00:18:04.801
Right?

00:18:05.021 --> 00:18:05.291
Jon: Dang.

00:18:05.381 --> 00:18:05.471
Yep.

00:18:05.521 --> 00:18:05.741
Louie: Yep.

00:18:06.231 --> 00:18:06.581
Wrong.

00:18:06.851 --> 00:18:07.726
What It's not.

00:18:07.756 --> 00:18:08.026
Yeah.

00:18:08.026 --> 00:18:13.336
It's not $54,000 that you're paying
because if you would've taken that

00:18:13.336 --> 00:18:17.716
money instead and invested it at a
7% real growth rate, which is what

00:18:17.716 --> 00:18:20.746
you would get in an s and p 500 or
a total stock market index fund.

00:18:20.986 --> 00:18:21.076
Yep.

00:18:21.106 --> 00:18:22.456
The real growth you would have.

00:18:22.726 --> 00:18:26.776
is $61,800 over that same timeframe.

00:18:26.776 --> 00:18:30.226
So not only would you not be in
debt, you would have six oh, about

00:18:30.226 --> 00:18:37.186
$62,000 sitting in a whatever
Roth IRA brokerage account, 4 57.

00:18:37.726 --> 00:18:40.576
And if you were to let that money just
sit and grow for the rest of your career,

00:18:40.856 --> 00:18:43.886
it'd be worth $313,000 in retirement.

00:18:44.006 --> 00:18:48.326
That sounds crazy, but what I'm submitting
to you is that the opportunity cost of

00:18:48.326 --> 00:18:54.696
buying that new Ford, F1, F 1309, or
Ram 1309 or whatever it is that you're

00:18:54.696 --> 00:18:59.106
buying, that the true cost of it is not
that 54,000 or 55 that they tell you it's

00:18:59.106 --> 00:19:03.126
gonna cost you or the, over the length of
your loan, but instead it's what you give

00:19:03.126 --> 00:19:05.406
up by not investing that money instead.

00:19:05.646 --> 00:19:09.846
So you're giving up around $300,000
every time you do that, right?

00:19:10.026 --> 00:19:13.056
And how many times do firefighters go
out and be like, eh, you know what, this.

00:19:13.326 --> 00:19:13.656
Truck

00:19:13.941 --> 00:19:16.671
Jon: oh dude, after three or four
years, that thing is a baloney skin.

00:19:16.731 --> 00:19:18.291
You gotta get that thing replaced.

00:19:18.351 --> 00:19:19.971
There's something that
came out that's better

00:19:20.046 --> 00:19:23.106
Louie: and what do, and the dealers
like the dealerships are so good at

00:19:23.106 --> 00:19:26.166
calling you up and being like, Hey,
we know you have this truck that's

00:19:26.166 --> 00:19:28.116
about five years old, four years old.

00:19:28.116 --> 00:19:28.716
and Guess what?

00:19:29.016 --> 00:19:30.156
You bring it into us.

00:19:30.456 --> 00:19:31.896
We'll give you a brand new truck.

00:19:32.286 --> 00:19:36.651
Trade that one in, and we'll keep
your payments the same, same $750.

00:19:36.981 --> 00:19:37.911
You don't have to worry about it.

00:19:37.911 --> 00:19:42.891
Now you got a new Ram 1500 with all
of the bells and whistles, and you

00:19:42.891 --> 00:19:44.661
just pay $750 like you've been doing.

00:19:44.661 --> 00:19:46.311
No, no harm, no foul.

00:19:46.431 --> 00:19:47.361
It's all good.

00:19:47.571 --> 00:19:51.381
I think you can see if you keep doing
that, you're in this vicious cycle if,

00:19:51.681 --> 00:19:55.761
and you are robbing from your future
so that you can have these trucks now.

00:19:56.736 --> 00:19:58.716
Jon: So if I'm tracking you though, go.

00:19:58.716 --> 00:20:02.286
Going back to your example
about the movie theater.

00:20:02.676 --> 00:20:06.246
So the way that I would actually
calculate the opportunity cost, so

00:20:06.246 --> 00:20:10.986
it's not only taking the $30 that I
physically spent to go for this form

00:20:10.986 --> 00:20:15.186
of entertainment, but it would be on
top of call it probably the $600 or

00:20:15.186 --> 00:20:17.016
whatever I would've made in overtime.

00:20:17.146 --> 00:20:17.956
For that 12 hours.

00:20:17.956 --> 00:20:23.286
So it's actually $630 was my opportunity
cost for basically going to the

00:20:23.286 --> 00:20:24.966
movie versus taking the overtime

00:20:25.026 --> 00:20:28.236
Louie: And it was probably, Yeah, it was
probably about 600, five to 600 bucks.

00:20:28.236 --> 00:20:31.926
is what You would make, you could
have taken that and you chose not to.

00:20:31.986 --> 00:20:32.826
You chose to go to the movie.

00:20:32.826 --> 00:20:33.126
theater.

00:20:33.126 --> 00:20:33.186
Yeah.

00:20:33.216 --> 00:20:38.856
So you have that $30 that you spent at
the movies, plus that $600 or whatever

00:20:39.186 --> 00:20:42.846
that you gave up by not taking that
over time, you could have had it.

00:20:43.236 --> 00:20:43.626
Jon: Gotcha.

00:20:43.806 --> 00:20:44.346
I'm tracking.

00:20:44.346 --> 00:20:44.406
So

00:20:44.736 --> 00:20:48.666
Louie: that's opportunity cost and
that's what I would encourage people to

00:20:48.846 --> 00:20:51.036
consider when they're choosing to take on.

00:20:51.036 --> 00:20:56.136
debt Because instead of using that money
for a beneficial purpose like savings

00:20:56.136 --> 00:21:01.116
or investing, you are instead paying
it back as principal and interest to a

00:21:01.116 --> 00:21:04.356
lender over the course of a five years.

00:21:04.356 --> 00:21:05.886
Or four years or whatever it is.

00:21:06.256 --> 00:21:09.916
and I think you can see how that quickly
turns into a vicious cycle with debt.

00:21:10.321 --> 00:21:10.681
Jon: Yep.

00:21:11.071 --> 00:21:14.241
And that's, and that's not
just for, vehicle purchases.

00:21:14.241 --> 00:21:16.261
That could be for, your residents.

00:21:16.261 --> 00:21:18.751
That could be for all sorts of
personal loans that you take

00:21:18.751 --> 00:21:19.771
for all sorts of other things.

00:21:19.771 --> 00:21:21.061
business loans that go bad.

00:21:21.061 --> 00:21:25.861
Like it's not just all about auto loans,
but that's, Louie and I hit on the auto

00:21:25.861 --> 00:21:29.101
loans so much because this is universal.

00:21:29.101 --> 00:21:32.911
And it's not just West Metro Peeps,
it's, it's the fire service in general.

00:21:33.221 --> 00:21:37.991
if we could get our folks to just buy
not brand new vehicles and buy something

00:21:37.991 --> 00:21:41.511
that was used, you know, four or five
years old that's got a little bit of

00:21:41.511 --> 00:21:45.021
mileage on it, and just save some of
that difference, even if it's 30 or

00:21:45.021 --> 00:21:49.461
40% difference from what a new vehicle
is, you don't have to finance as much

00:21:49.461 --> 00:21:51.441
for one, and then you can take that.

00:21:51.831 --> 00:21:53.121
That difference, right?

00:21:53.121 --> 00:21:58.161
If you could just take it from a $750
a month payment to a $350 a month

00:21:58.161 --> 00:22:02.961
payment, so save that $400 and put
that into something like your 4 57

00:22:03.321 --> 00:22:05.481
or a Roth IRA or a brokerage account.

00:22:05.481 --> 00:22:08.151
There's a lot of different investment
vehicles that you could use.

00:22:08.751 --> 00:22:11.811
I mean, you would change the
trajectory of your career and your

00:22:11.811 --> 00:22:13.581
financial life moving forward.

00:22:13.701 --> 00:22:13.791
Yes.

00:22:13.821 --> 00:22:16.551
I mean, that just gives you
so many options and so much

00:22:16.551 --> 00:22:17.961
flexibility moving forward.

00:22:17.961 --> 00:22:20.691
And that's, I think as we've done
this enough and talked to enough

00:22:20.691 --> 00:22:24.441
people, like we understand that people
need modes of transportation, right?

00:22:24.441 --> 00:22:27.471
They need a physical, a safe way
in a reliable way from getting

00:22:27.471 --> 00:22:28.521
from one point to another.

00:22:28.731 --> 00:22:32.541
And we know, you know, generally
our personalities, firefighters

00:22:32.541 --> 00:22:34.371
in general are, active people.

00:22:34.371 --> 00:22:36.771
So they actually do use
their trucks to some degree.

00:22:36.771 --> 00:22:39.291
They put mountain bikes, they go
camping, they go up in the back

00:22:39.291 --> 00:22:40.731
country, they do all sorts of stuff.

00:22:40.791 --> 00:22:41.811
Louie: they're paying for those mountain

00:22:42.186 --> 00:22:43.431
Jon: Cash, cash, coal,

00:22:43.491 --> 00:22:44.601
Louie: they're not getting in debt for

00:22:44.661 --> 00:22:45.801
Jon: No, definitely not.

00:22:45.801 --> 00:22:45.891
Boat.

00:22:46.041 --> 00:22:47.781
Louie: The boat and the ATVs and the,

00:22:47.841 --> 00:22:49.581
Jon: I gotta, I got, I need
something to pull this.

00:22:49.581 --> 00:22:49.641
Yeah.

00:22:49.741 --> 00:22:53.401
Louie: they, the trailers and the fifth
wheels, those are, I'm sure paid for.

00:22:53.881 --> 00:22:57.751
In cash and not high
interest loans at 7% or 8%.

00:22:57.751 --> 00:22:58.171
No way.

00:22:58.246 --> 00:22:58.846
Jon: Never.

00:22:58.906 --> 00:22:59.506
Never.

00:22:59.536 --> 00:22:59.866
No.

00:22:59.866 --> 00:23:03.056
And this is why Louie and I joke about
it, but this is something that, it

00:23:03.056 --> 00:23:04.706
really is near and dear to our heart.

00:23:04.736 --> 00:23:09.176
'cause we really are looking out for our
brothers and sisters and their financial

00:23:09.176 --> 00:23:11.276
futures and what's in their best interest.

00:23:11.276 --> 00:23:13.916
And this is just the one thing
universally, if we could just

00:23:13.916 --> 00:23:17.036
co curb that behavior just a
little bit, just modify it.

00:23:17.036 --> 00:23:19.886
Just a touch to, if you still
want a truck, that's great.

00:23:20.156 --> 00:23:23.126
Just get something that's not
brand new, something that's got

00:23:23.126 --> 00:23:24.896
some depreciation on it already.

00:23:25.106 --> 00:23:27.326
Something where you don't
have to finance as much.

00:23:27.546 --> 00:23:28.446
and keep it longer.

00:23:28.446 --> 00:23:29.916
Don't keep it for three or four years.

00:23:29.916 --> 00:23:33.216
keep it for 10 or 15 years until
the wheels literally fall off.

00:23:33.396 --> 00:23:33.456
Yeah.

00:23:33.526 --> 00:23:37.366
you could definitely change the tides of
where your financial trajectory is headed.

00:23:37.546 --> 00:23:37.636
Yeah.

00:23:37.756 --> 00:23:38.896
Like hands down.

00:23:38.896 --> 00:23:39.226
Yeah.

00:23:39.226 --> 00:23:39.406
I,

00:23:39.541 --> 00:23:39.601
Louie: Yeah.

00:23:39.601 --> 00:23:41.041
John, I think that's
a good point is we're.

00:23:41.781 --> 00:23:45.951
Don't mish heroes, We're, we're not
saying you shouldn't have a reliable

00:23:46.011 --> 00:23:47.541
vehicle that you shouldn't have.

00:23:47.541 --> 00:23:51.231
A truck that you can use to haul things
around and do stuff with your family.

00:23:51.231 --> 00:23:52.491
We're not saying that at all.

00:23:52.801 --> 00:23:57.541
but what we would submit to this
audience is that most people that are

00:23:57.541 --> 00:24:02.251
buying these new trucks had perfectly
good working vehicles in the past.

00:24:02.251 --> 00:24:05.581
Like we see it all the time where
firefighter has a three or 4-year-old

00:24:05.581 --> 00:24:06.991
truck that is working great.

00:24:06.991 --> 00:24:07.681
Like it's fine.

00:24:07.681 --> 00:24:11.701
It is, it is plenty of truck or
car for that person and they will

00:24:11.701 --> 00:24:12.601
still be like, eh, you know what?

00:24:12.601 --> 00:24:16.231
I want this new one or I want this
better model or this upgraded model.

00:24:16.381 --> 00:24:20.071
And they keep doing that year in and year
out or every four or five years I guess.

00:24:20.071 --> 00:24:22.431
And it is, that is
brutal to your finances.

00:24:22.581 --> 00:24:25.341
and To assume otherwise, no matter
how good of a deal you got on your

00:24:25.341 --> 00:24:27.891
car, which we know everyone gets a
good deal on their car, no one will

00:24:27.891 --> 00:24:29.091
ever tell you they got a bad deal.

00:24:29.511 --> 00:24:34.186
It is still taking from your future,
it's still taking from money that you

00:24:34.186 --> 00:24:38.206
could otherwise invest and earn money on.

00:24:38.566 --> 00:24:39.796
And that's what our concern is.

00:24:39.856 --> 00:24:42.496
That's why we're talking about it,
because we think that, we see that so

00:24:42.496 --> 00:24:47.146
often that we know it's taking real
money out of you, out of the your future.

00:24:47.716 --> 00:24:48.106
pocket.

00:24:48.271 --> 00:24:48.601
Jon: Yep.

00:24:48.781 --> 00:24:50.631
No, and that is, as usual.

00:24:50.631 --> 00:24:51.561
that is well said.

00:24:51.561 --> 00:24:55.631
So that's kind of our, our messaging,
when it comes to, the auto loans

00:24:55.631 --> 00:24:58.671
and just some of the traps that
we see, our folks get into.

00:24:58.671 --> 00:25:01.401
And it, and it's just one of those things
like Louis really did explain it well.

00:25:01.401 --> 00:25:02.691
It is a vicious cycle.

00:25:03.041 --> 00:25:06.761
typically it takes a little bit of
age and a little bit of wisdom, and

00:25:06.761 --> 00:25:09.701
sometimes just being, we've talked
about it before, it just sucks being

00:25:09.701 --> 00:25:11.111
broke and paycheck to paycheck.

00:25:11.111 --> 00:25:15.041
And that is typically something
that starts to modify some of the

00:25:15.041 --> 00:25:18.611
behaviors or, you get married and then
you have some kids, so now you have

00:25:18.611 --> 00:25:20.291
competing resources for your money.

00:25:20.291 --> 00:25:22.841
So now it's not about the new
truck anymore, it's about trying

00:25:22.841 --> 00:25:26.681
to afford daycare or maybe co or
education for your kids or something.

00:25:26.681 --> 00:25:28.361
You just have a different
priority in life.

00:25:28.361 --> 00:25:28.451
Louie: Yeah.

00:25:28.606 --> 00:25:28.896
Yeah.

00:25:29.111 --> 00:25:30.161
Jon: and that's natural too.

00:25:30.161 --> 00:25:33.551
So I know we're, I know there's a lot
of people coming around the academy.

00:25:33.551 --> 00:25:34.331
They're just like.

00:25:34.641 --> 00:25:36.681
Just shaking their heads
like, I don't care, man.

00:25:36.681 --> 00:25:37.581
I earned this.

00:25:37.661 --> 00:25:37.991
Louie: yeah, I

00:25:38.151 --> 00:25:38.811
Jon: earned this.

00:25:38.811 --> 00:25:39.801
I need this.

00:25:39.801 --> 00:25:40.971
I worked hard for it.

00:25:41.331 --> 00:25:45.346
And that's just, and that's just one of
those things where so much of debt and

00:25:45.346 --> 00:25:49.396
the concept behind surrounding debting
taking out more and more is just this

00:25:49.396 --> 00:25:51.646
need for feeling some type of fulfillment.

00:25:51.776 --> 00:25:54.066
there's always this,
Instagram and everything else.

00:25:54.066 --> 00:25:57.416
You, it just, it's never been more in
someone's face about how much someone

00:25:57.416 --> 00:25:59.096
else has compared to what you have.

00:25:59.366 --> 00:26:02.946
And it's really, it's, this is modifying
behavior and perceptions more than it

00:26:02.946 --> 00:26:05.076
is about dollars and cents and math.

00:26:06.036 --> 00:26:06.096
Yeah.

00:26:06.096 --> 00:26:08.196
It just is, at the end of the
day, that's what it's about.

00:26:08.196 --> 00:26:10.466
It's about priorities and
values and how you're gonna

00:26:10.466 --> 00:26:11.801
value your time and your money.

00:26:11.806 --> 00:26:11.816
Louie: money.

00:26:13.126 --> 00:26:13.426
Jon: But that

00:26:13.616 --> 00:26:13.976
Louie: there you go.

00:26:13.976 --> 00:26:14.711
So box that I'm there.

00:26:14.711 --> 00:26:14.871
Boom.

00:26:15.026 --> 00:26:15.656
No, I love it.

00:26:15.746 --> 00:26:16.226
I love it.

00:26:16.231 --> 00:26:17.546
Couldn't have said it better myself.

00:26:17.546 --> 00:26:17.936
I love it.

00:26:18.086 --> 00:26:20.366
Jon: Yeah, so that's, so that's auto loan.

00:26:20.366 --> 00:26:23.506
So, and that's opportunity cost and
just some of the things that, that,

00:26:23.556 --> 00:26:24.876
we definitely have experienced.

00:26:24.876 --> 00:26:28.806
I have been that 24-year-old
person that bought a brand new

00:26:28.806 --> 00:26:30.666
Toyota Tacoma right off the line.

00:26:30.696 --> 00:26:31.956
'cause they got a sweet deal.

00:26:32.196 --> 00:26:32.736
Louie: Yes, sir.

00:26:32.736 --> 00:26:32.946
And,

00:26:32.946 --> 00:26:35.916
Jon: I had that thing for a couple
years and I was just spending so much

00:26:35.916 --> 00:26:39.896
money on it that I no longer was getting
a lot of, gratification out of it.

00:26:40.256 --> 00:26:45.746
And I ended up selling it and bought
some used, F-150, manual and it got

00:26:45.746 --> 00:26:47.876
me around just fine and I was happier.

00:26:47.996 --> 00:26:48.086
Nice

00:26:48.506 --> 00:26:49.196
Louie: Nice

00:26:49.196 --> 00:26:50.336
Jon: than I can ever remember.

00:26:50.336 --> 00:26:50.846
So Nice.

00:26:51.026 --> 00:26:51.386
Yep.

00:26:51.386 --> 00:26:52.646
Getting personal there.

00:26:52.646 --> 00:26:54.146
A little personal anecdote.

00:26:54.146 --> 00:26:54.416
Yes.

00:26:54.416 --> 00:26:58.016
So I have definitely been there and
I have owned a couple of new trucks

00:26:58.016 --> 00:26:59.936
and it's one of my biggest regrets.

00:27:00.246 --> 00:27:00.696
what else?

00:27:00.696 --> 00:27:03.896
So, when we're talking about
opportunity costs, we're talking

00:27:03.896 --> 00:27:06.136
about, you know, loans or debt.

00:27:06.496 --> 00:27:07.961
you know, this is one that is interesting.

00:27:07.961 --> 00:27:08.201
We always.

00:27:08.516 --> 00:27:11.876
You know, go around the room with the,
with the new firefighters and say okay,

00:27:11.876 --> 00:27:16.496
cool, we know about financing and we know
about taking out loans, but you know,

00:27:16.496 --> 00:27:18.386
there's gotta be a good loan to take out.

00:27:18.386 --> 00:27:18.716
Right.

00:27:18.836 --> 00:27:21.476
And there's gotta be a bad
loan to take out bad debt.

00:27:21.476 --> 00:27:24.926
and it's really interesting to always
hear people's perspectives on this.

00:27:24.926 --> 00:27:28.016
And I don't know, Louis, what
do you think is the number one

00:27:28.346 --> 00:27:30.146
that people say is a good debt?

00:27:30.146 --> 00:27:33.676
guaranteed, like I'll take this to
the grave, like this is good debt.

00:27:33.676 --> 00:27:35.386
This is something to take a loan out for.

00:27:35.386 --> 00:27:36.586
That is good.

00:27:36.646 --> 00:27:41.106
Louie: I'll tell you, I think
historically, one of the golden examples

00:27:41.106 --> 00:27:43.466
of what a good debt is student loan debt.

00:27:43.656 --> 00:27:44.766
Jon: Oh, 100%.

00:27:44.766 --> 00:27:46.356
They always come out with yep.

00:27:46.566 --> 00:27:47.166
Student loan,

00:27:47.231 --> 00:27:47.561
Louie: for sure.

00:27:47.566 --> 00:27:51.391
You're doing it to improve your
education and your employment chances

00:27:51.391 --> 00:27:54.031
and your marketability in the workforce.

00:27:54.031 --> 00:27:58.071
So yeah, take out student loan debt and
then I, I've pushed back on people and

00:27:58.071 --> 00:28:06.061
say, ask these people who took out 70,
80, $90,000 in student loans and then

00:28:06.061 --> 00:28:11.071
got some liberal arts degree and they
had to come into the workforce earning,

00:28:11.261 --> 00:28:12.941
not much more above minimum wage.

00:28:12.971 --> 00:28:15.341
or Maybe even minimum wage
'cause they couldn't find a job.

00:28:15.551 --> 00:28:16.421
That happens a lot.

00:28:16.721 --> 00:28:20.401
I think there's, we can't assume that
everyone that took out $70,000 in

00:28:20.401 --> 00:28:25.151
student loan debt, has some kind of,
high earning degree or that they are

00:28:25.151 --> 00:28:28.971
a, you know, an engineer or they're in
a STEM field or something like that.

00:28:28.971 --> 00:28:30.171
It doesn't really always work that way.

00:28:30.171 --> 00:28:33.141
A lot of these people who are taking
on 70, or $80,000 in student loan debt,

00:28:33.221 --> 00:28:34.841
sometimes they're teachers, sometimes.

00:28:34.841 --> 00:28:38.951
They're very blue collar,
middle class incomes.

00:28:38.951 --> 00:28:42.791
And I bet if you asked a lot of those
people, if they think that that was good

00:28:42.791 --> 00:28:44.081
debt, they would probably tell you no.

00:28:44.081 --> 00:28:46.901
In retrospect, I wish I
didn't take on that debt.

00:28:46.901 --> 00:28:52.301
I wish I would have went to a
college that wasn't as expensive or.

00:28:52.301 --> 00:28:54.281
did something where I
could have earned more.

00:28:54.281 --> 00:28:57.251
They, they there's a lot of regrets around
student loan debt right now, and that

00:28:57.251 --> 00:29:01.341
you can just tell in our culture, the
debates about, student loan forgiveness.

00:29:01.341 --> 00:29:01.941
and All these things.

00:29:01.941 --> 00:29:03.951
You could tell that there's a lot
of people that are unhappy and

00:29:03.951 --> 00:29:05.991
they don't consider it a good debt.

00:29:06.261 --> 00:29:07.401
Like it was common.

00:29:07.401 --> 00:29:09.111
Like I remember growing up
it was just like, oh, don't

00:29:09.111 --> 00:29:09.921
worry about student loan debt.

00:29:09.921 --> 00:29:10.701
That's a good debt.

00:29:10.941 --> 00:29:13.411
And now I think that tide is
changing and they're like, this is

00:29:13.411 --> 00:29:15.541
not really necessarily a good debt.

00:29:16.031 --> 00:29:17.321
could be depending on how you use it.

00:29:17.321 --> 00:29:19.331
But definitely it is not
guaranteed good debt.

00:29:19.426 --> 00:29:23.176
Jon: And I think some of this is on the
messaging standpoint from society, right?

00:29:23.176 --> 00:29:27.286
They always cite like how much more a
college educated person will make than

00:29:27.286 --> 00:29:30.481
someone that doesn't go to college,
like a high school graduate, and

00:29:30.481 --> 00:29:31.951
how much more money they will make.

00:29:31.951 --> 00:29:35.731
But I would be willing to say that tho
the tides are shifting in that specific

00:29:35.731 --> 00:29:39.861
thing, to Louis's point, unless you go
to school for a specific purpose, so

00:29:39.861 --> 00:29:43.461
whether that's engineering or accounting,
or you're gonna be a physician or you

00:29:43.461 --> 00:29:46.701
practice law or something like that,
where there's a tangible outcome.

00:29:46.971 --> 00:29:49.861
But just general education
now or, or liberal arts.

00:29:50.266 --> 00:29:53.726
for the most part, especially with
AI and the way things are going, it's

00:29:53.726 --> 00:29:55.676
replacing a lot of entry level things.

00:29:55.676 --> 00:30:00.056
the blue collar folks are probably gonna
have a leg up here in the future because

00:30:00.056 --> 00:30:01.796
you can't build houses yet with ai.

00:30:01.796 --> 00:30:04.256
You can't plum a, a house with AI yet.

00:30:04.256 --> 00:30:07.436
there's gonna be a lot of manual labor
that still needs to be done, and those

00:30:07.676 --> 00:30:10.736
are gonna be the jobs that are gonna
be commanding some salaries, and it's

00:30:10.736 --> 00:30:13.976
not gonna be on a lot of entry level
stuff that you might have gotten from

00:30:13.976 --> 00:30:16.466
some type of a liberal arts degree.

00:30:16.466 --> 00:30:19.256
So it's one of those things, it's
I understand the value of college.

00:30:19.256 --> 00:30:20.516
I was like the Van Wilder.

00:30:20.516 --> 00:30:23.636
I can't tell you how many colleges I
went to, and I had a great experience.

00:30:23.636 --> 00:30:23.696
Yeah.

00:30:24.036 --> 00:30:27.366
but did that put me in a better
position to, to get this job?

00:30:27.621 --> 00:30:30.791
I, I really can't say that I was better
prepared because I went to college.

00:30:30.791 --> 00:30:33.731
Now I had some experiences that
might have been beneficial.

00:30:33.951 --> 00:30:37.371
but as far as the physical degree
there, there was no benefit.

00:30:37.371 --> 00:30:39.801
Honestly, for me, in this
specific profession, I'm not

00:30:39.801 --> 00:30:40.971
using that degree at all.

00:30:41.066 --> 00:30:41.426
Louie: Yeah, I.

00:30:41.426 --> 00:30:44.071
mean, we're using our degrees
in our education to help

00:30:44.071 --> 00:30:45.331
educate other firefighters.

00:30:45.331 --> 00:30:45.541
Correct.

00:30:45.541 --> 00:30:50.491
But when it comes to doing the core
aspects of this job, no, no benefit

00:30:50.491 --> 00:30:53.371
from me having a background in finance.

00:30:53.371 --> 00:30:55.821
Really from that perspective,
it's, that's just how it is.

00:30:55.821 --> 00:30:59.001
That's how it is with A lot of people
and their educational backgrounds,

00:30:59.076 --> 00:31:03.936
Jon: so probably a close second behind
student loans is always viewed as a good

00:31:03.936 --> 00:31:09.366
form of, financing or taking out loans to,
to better yourselves or your education.

00:31:09.416 --> 00:31:10.796
I would say very close.

00:31:10.796 --> 00:31:12.626
Second is gotta be homes.

00:31:12.866 --> 00:31:15.206
People will tell you a personal residence.

00:31:15.206 --> 00:31:18.546
It's a great wealth building tool,
that, you know, it's always gonna

00:31:18.546 --> 00:31:20.106
be good debt taken outta a mortgage.

00:31:20.196 --> 00:31:23.346
And I love, I'll always love
your response when you say that

00:31:23.346 --> 00:31:24.696
you flip it right on its head.

00:31:24.996 --> 00:31:28.566
And because right now, once again,
we've got hindsight bias, right?

00:31:28.566 --> 00:31:31.746
The, our real estate market in
Colorado and really across the nation.

00:31:31.796 --> 00:31:35.816
since COVID has just gone, you know, up
into the right, it's gone just vertical

00:31:35.896 --> 00:31:40.356
where we've increased, you know, some
housing values, you know, almost, 50%.

00:31:40.421 --> 00:31:43.151
60% from where they were
even three or four years ago.

00:31:43.151 --> 00:31:46.121
So it's viewed as like a great
investment that's gonna continue

00:31:46.121 --> 00:31:48.611
on that trajectory in perpetuity.

00:31:48.611 --> 00:31:51.851
And it's, you know, it couldn't
actually be further from the truth.

00:31:51.851 --> 00:31:55.841
And, you know, people that have never
lived through a housing recession or a

00:31:55.841 --> 00:32:01.121
housing bubble, which happened in the
GFC, you know, the late, 2007, 2008, up

00:32:01.121 --> 00:32:06.081
to 2010, and actually, when your value of
your house automatically goes underwater,

00:32:06.081 --> 00:32:08.301
so you owe more money than it's worth.

00:32:08.631 --> 00:32:12.051
it, I, I can guarantee you, if, if
we would've done this for a recruit

00:32:12.051 --> 00:32:16.641
class in 2010 or 2011, that probably
would not have been the vibe, right?

00:32:16.641 --> 00:32:18.711
Because there were so many
flare closures going on.

00:32:19.041 --> 00:32:22.191
There was so much issue around so much,
so many houses that have been built,

00:32:22.191 --> 00:32:25.281
and this inventory that's just stacking
up and the value just kept going.

00:32:25.606 --> 00:32:26.656
down and down.

00:32:26.656 --> 00:32:29.026
So a lot of this is timing for one.

00:32:29.026 --> 00:32:29.086
Yeah.

00:32:29.296 --> 00:32:31.816
It's very geographic specific as well.

00:32:31.816 --> 00:32:35.716
Like our market here is different than
it is in other places in the country.

00:32:35.746 --> 00:32:39.616
and I would just, I would just challenge
that, you know, real estate to some

00:32:39.616 --> 00:32:41.326
degree can be at a good investment.

00:32:41.326 --> 00:32:44.036
Just like any of these things
can be, like taking out, student

00:32:44.036 --> 00:32:45.536
loans can be a good investment.

00:32:45.536 --> 00:32:47.756
It just really depends on
how it's used and whether or

00:32:47.756 --> 00:32:48.986
not it's used appropriately.

00:32:49.176 --> 00:32:49.416
Louie: Yeah.

00:32:49.416 --> 00:32:53.286
And John, full disclosure, I'll just
be honest with our audience right here.

00:32:53.431 --> 00:32:55.181
I have mor a mortgage.

00:32:55.211 --> 00:32:57.231
I have, housing debt.

00:32:57.631 --> 00:33:00.931
when we bought a house fairly
recently, I had to take on a

00:33:00.931 --> 00:33:03.751
mortgage in order to buy that house.

00:33:03.751 --> 00:33:08.041
Because that is what the vast
majority of Americans have to do.

00:33:08.041 --> 00:33:08.876
if They wanna buy a house.

00:33:09.016 --> 00:33:13.081
So once again, you know, we're not
saying that you shouldn't do it.

00:33:13.081 --> 00:33:16.111
And if you are buying a house,
you are sacrificing your future.

00:33:16.171 --> 00:33:18.481
you're not necessarily, but you could be.

00:33:18.851 --> 00:33:22.771
there's a lot of people who, Take on too
much house debt and they can't afford

00:33:22.771 --> 00:33:24.331
to invest or save for their future.

00:33:24.601 --> 00:33:26.131
And money is really, really tight.

00:33:26.131 --> 00:33:29.881
and They have to work a bunch of overtime
or try to get a second job because they

00:33:29.881 --> 00:33:32.821
have stretched themselves in order to
buy a house before they were ready.

00:33:32.881 --> 00:33:34.891
And that's a very personal
financial decision.

00:33:34.891 --> 00:33:38.611
Like we get, I mean, John and I always
feel bad when we have to talk to these

00:33:38.701 --> 00:33:42.811
younger firefighters and these new
recruits about buying a house because

00:33:42.811 --> 00:33:45.691
we're like, man, we realize if you don't
own a house now, if you don't own a

00:33:45.691 --> 00:33:49.681
real estate after the last 20 years in
this market, it's really hard to look

00:33:49.681 --> 00:33:53.911
at someone in the face and be like,
Hey, you need to save 20% down and you

00:33:53.911 --> 00:33:56.971
need to buy a house that's way cheaper
in a neighborhood that you might not

00:33:56.971 --> 00:33:58.591
like as much that you can afford it.

00:33:58.951 --> 00:34:02.101
it's hard to tell people that,
but you know, if you, if you just

00:34:02.101 --> 00:34:05.841
look at it objectively, it's a
pretty bad time to buy a home.

00:34:05.871 --> 00:34:06.291
Like it.

00:34:06.651 --> 00:34:09.901
Mortgage rates are high,
in the Denver metro area.

00:34:10.321 --> 00:34:13.141
Prices have kind of leveled off, I
guess you could say that, but it's

00:34:13.141 --> 00:34:14.361
not it hasn't been a bubble burst.

00:34:14.361 --> 00:34:17.031
It's not like the prices have gone
down by 30% and you can get these

00:34:17.031 --> 00:34:20.571
great deals, even though mortgage
rates are high, people still want

00:34:20.751 --> 00:34:22.641
these high prices for their homes.

00:34:23.151 --> 00:34:26.151
And, there's, there's more houses
on the market now than there was

00:34:26.151 --> 00:34:28.051
maybe, six months ago or a year ago.

00:34:28.321 --> 00:34:30.961
But it's not like it's just flooded
and driving the prices down.

00:34:31.181 --> 00:34:31.401
Jon: No.

00:34:31.401 --> 00:34:34.526
And people, people that have
those houses, they can sit on 'em.

00:34:34.556 --> 00:34:40.226
unlike in 2008 and 2009 and 2010 where
they were literally underwater, they

00:34:40.226 --> 00:34:41.636
couldn't afford their mortgage anymore.

00:34:41.996 --> 00:34:46.016
People that have been buying houses
now, like their credit worthiness,

00:34:46.016 --> 00:34:49.171
their ability, to take out that
money, they can easily afford

00:34:49.171 --> 00:34:50.551
those payments for the most part.

00:34:50.551 --> 00:34:52.441
they don't have to get
liquidated to get right.

00:34:52.441 --> 00:34:56.881
So these houses are not getting slashed
from a cost perspective because a lot

00:34:56.881 --> 00:34:58.951
of these people bought it, 5, 6, 10.

00:34:59.016 --> 00:35:01.416
20 years ago, and they've got
a ton of equity in that house.

00:35:01.416 --> 00:35:03.966
There's no reason for them
to sell at a huge discount.

00:35:03.966 --> 00:35:05.101
And they'll just wait, just wait.

00:35:05.101 --> 00:35:07.261
And eventually that
house will move for sure.

00:35:07.356 --> 00:35:10.056
It will eventually move, it might
get discounted a little bit, for them

00:35:10.056 --> 00:35:13.566
it's, it's worth to wait, three or
four or five months to sell it for top

00:35:13.566 --> 00:35:17.776
dollar then to just slash the price
by 20% to get it closed tomorrow.

00:35:17.776 --> 00:35:20.876
So you're just not gonna see
that in, talking to realtors

00:35:20.876 --> 00:35:21.866
and, and everyone else.

00:35:21.866 --> 00:35:26.346
I just, in our area, Denver, I just, I
don't foresee that happening anytime soon.

00:35:26.431 --> 00:35:28.921
Louie: So then, John, let me ask you
this, 'cause I've heard this a lot and I

00:35:28.921 --> 00:35:30.391
just wanted to get your thoughts on it.

00:35:30.631 --> 00:35:32.611
I've heard some people say this a lot.

00:35:32.611 --> 00:35:34.381
I've heard Old timers tell me this.

00:35:34.381 --> 00:35:37.391
Even young people tell me this,
and they'll say something like,

00:35:37.511 --> 00:35:42.611
renting is throwing away money, but
buying a house is an investment.

00:35:43.271 --> 00:35:44.111
What do you think about that?

00:35:44.201 --> 00:35:47.831
Jon: Yeah, once again, in
theory it sounds very logical.

00:35:47.891 --> 00:35:48.341
It does.

00:35:48.341 --> 00:35:52.121
It sounds like, okay, I've got a house
and I know that it's gonna appreciate

00:35:52.121 --> 00:35:53.991
on average, 2% year, over year.

00:35:53.991 --> 00:35:57.801
So if I hold this thing for 10 or 15
years and I spent this much money,

00:35:57.801 --> 00:36:00.561
I know when I get to sell this,
like I'm actually making money.

00:36:00.561 --> 00:36:04.541
I'm gonna, I'm going to sell this at
a higher price than I paid for it.

00:36:04.541 --> 00:36:06.131
Hence, it's a good investment.

00:36:06.131 --> 00:36:11.621
And the problem is the theory or the logic
is flawed in that people, and even people

00:36:11.621 --> 00:36:13.151
that make a killing on their house, right?

00:36:13.151 --> 00:36:15.851
They sell it for a lot more
than they ever paid for it.

00:36:16.131 --> 00:36:18.861
they never account for all
the intangibles that they.

00:36:19.016 --> 00:36:22.496
Paid for the house as far as the
maintenance, any updating they

00:36:22.496 --> 00:36:26.306
did, like all of those housing
costs that go with home ownership,

00:36:26.726 --> 00:36:28.136
that never gets factored into the

00:36:28.701 --> 00:36:29.151
Louie: Correct.

00:36:29.156 --> 00:36:31.646
Jon: Versus, versus if
you're renting, like you know

00:36:31.646 --> 00:36:32.936
exactly what it's gonna cost.

00:36:32.936 --> 00:36:35.846
Right now, you might have to change a
couple light bulbs here and there, but

00:36:35.846 --> 00:36:39.026
any major appliance or whatever, that's
gonna be your landlord's responsibility,

00:36:39.266 --> 00:36:44.626
property taxes, homeowners insurance,
any type of physical, improvement to the,

00:36:44.816 --> 00:36:46.616
residence is all gonna be on the landlord.

00:36:46.616 --> 00:36:48.596
And that eats up a ton of money.

00:36:48.596 --> 00:36:53.276
Like people just never, and even you,
Louie, who is very detail oriented, has

00:36:53.276 --> 00:36:57.336
a nice little spreadsheet, you would
probably still be off, considerably when

00:36:57.336 --> 00:36:58.536
you actually looked at how much did it

00:36:58.546 --> 00:36:59.686
Louie: the true cost of home ownership

00:36:59.856 --> 00:37:00.786
Jon: to live at this place?

00:37:00.786 --> 00:37:03.061
and that's a logic that
is completely flawed.

00:37:03.461 --> 00:37:03.731
Louie: I, Yeah.

00:37:03.731 --> 00:37:07.111
And that's, and we say that to the new
people when we're doing that, financial

00:37:07.111 --> 00:37:10.621
recruit presentation because it's
important to know, you shouldn't feel

00:37:10.621 --> 00:37:12.211
bad if you can't buy a home right now.

00:37:12.211 --> 00:37:14.491
And that's what we're trying to do
is If right now is the time for you

00:37:14.491 --> 00:37:17.671
to rent so you can save up money
for a down payment or to pay off

00:37:17.731 --> 00:37:19.501
other debt, that's an okay thing.

00:37:19.501 --> 00:37:22.591
It's not Like you're missing like some
kind of once in a lifetime opportunity.

00:37:23.011 --> 00:37:24.961
and we just don't want
people to feel bad of that.

00:37:24.961 --> 00:37:28.471
And to John's point, you know, when
you rent you're, the cost of that

00:37:28.471 --> 00:37:30.691
rent is, is the most you'll pay.

00:37:30.781 --> 00:37:33.781
You pay your rent payment, you pay
renter's insurance, but that's about the

00:37:33.781 --> 00:37:37.111
most you're gonna pay when you own a home.

00:37:37.381 --> 00:37:41.221
You're, you pay principal interest, you
pay your property taxes, you pay your

00:37:41.221 --> 00:37:45.181
homeowner's insurance, you pay your HOA,
but that's the minimum you will pay.

00:37:45.181 --> 00:37:45.241
Yeah.

00:37:45.481 --> 00:37:48.511
And then everything else you do on
top of that, all the maintenance

00:37:48.511 --> 00:37:49.711
and all the home improvement.

00:37:50.051 --> 00:37:50.741
I, you're right.

00:37:50.741 --> 00:37:53.261
I, I could, I would have a hard
time telling you and I'm detail

00:37:53.261 --> 00:37:54.251
oriented when it comes to my money.

00:37:54.251 --> 00:37:57.076
I would have a hard time telling
you what I spent on my house.

00:37:57.076 --> 00:37:59.416
Like what I remember our old house like.

00:37:59.986 --> 00:38:01.516
I can just go buy and look at things.

00:38:01.516 --> 00:38:04.006
Whenever you buy a house, you're
like, well, we need a new fence.

00:38:04.006 --> 00:38:07.126
Like when we moved in this house
it had a Fence from 1986 probably

00:38:07.396 --> 00:38:08.326
that needed to be replaced.

00:38:08.326 --> 00:38:08.446
You know?

00:38:08.446 --> 00:38:09.706
How much is this to replace a fence?

00:38:09.856 --> 00:38:10.996
It's not five grand.

00:38:11.026 --> 00:38:13.036
Like fences are absurdly expensive.

00:38:13.216 --> 00:38:13.366
Correct.

00:38:13.546 --> 00:38:14.896
The deck was falling apart.

00:38:14.956 --> 00:38:15.856
Talk about expense.

00:38:15.856 --> 00:38:18.956
You want a new deck, that's
gonna cost you a pretty penny.

00:38:19.176 --> 00:38:22.266
water heater was like not
original to the house, but almost

00:38:22.266 --> 00:38:23.466
that needed To be replaced.

00:38:23.556 --> 00:38:24.546
Oh, HVAC unit.

00:38:24.546 --> 00:38:25.536
You want one of those too.

00:38:25.536 --> 00:38:25.986
Guess what?

00:38:25.986 --> 00:38:27.216
That's gonna cost you something.

00:38:27.456 --> 00:38:28.476
Bathroom remodels.

00:38:28.686 --> 00:38:29.886
You got two or three bathrooms.

00:38:29.886 --> 00:38:30.996
You wanna remodel all of 'em.

00:38:31.596 --> 00:38:32.016
Guess what?

00:38:32.016 --> 00:38:33.216
The wife wants a new kitchen.

00:38:33.456 --> 00:38:37.476
We want new cabinets with the nice
sweet pullouts and that with the soft

00:38:37.476 --> 00:38:40.056
clothes and some granite countertops.

00:38:40.571 --> 00:38:42.371
John, I'm not these are not examples.

00:38:42.371 --> 00:38:44.771
I'm telling you that that's
what I did on my house.

00:38:44.771 --> 00:38:45.041
Like this.

00:38:45.041 --> 00:38:47.951
is All of that cost a lot of money.

00:38:47.951 --> 00:38:49.151
Talk about opportunity cost.

00:38:49.151 --> 00:38:51.431
If I had not done that, I
would've had more money.

00:38:51.476 --> 00:38:54.161
I, I would submit to people, and
this is a very controversial thing,

00:38:54.161 --> 00:38:56.711
there's people that have debated this
on both sides for a long, long time.

00:38:57.101 --> 00:39:00.701
But I would submit to you that if you
took the true cost of home ownership

00:39:00.701 --> 00:39:06.431
and you compared it to renting, you
would not be as far ahead, if at all

00:39:06.491 --> 00:39:08.861
as a homeowner than you are renting.

00:39:09.251 --> 00:39:11.201
A lot of people don't like to hear
it 'cause they just see the price

00:39:11.201 --> 00:39:14.141
and they go in the Denver real estate
market, it goes up an insane amount.

00:39:14.141 --> 00:39:14.651
I get it.

00:39:14.711 --> 00:39:15.341
I do get it.

00:39:15.341 --> 00:39:19.751
And I'm not saying you wouldn't make
money, but would you make as much

00:39:19.751 --> 00:39:22.751
as if you invested, you know, the
difference between renting and owning?

00:39:22.751 --> 00:39:23.381
I don't know.

00:39:23.381 --> 00:39:25.241
It gets really muddled at that point.

00:39:25.826 --> 00:39:28.921
Th That's a very long-winded way
of saying, don't feel bad if you

00:39:28.921 --> 00:39:31.771
can't buy right now and you have
other priorities in your life, like

00:39:31.771 --> 00:39:33.931
hopefully paying off debt, that's okay.

00:39:33.931 --> 00:39:35.101
That's, that's a good thing.

00:39:35.281 --> 00:39:37.731
And you are not, so far behind
your peers and it's you'll

00:39:37.731 --> 00:39:39.141
never be able to buy a house.

00:39:39.471 --> 00:39:43.791
It's, I, I would just try to encourage
people that it's okay, it's okay

00:39:43.791 --> 00:39:48.141
if you have to wait and you're not
throwing away money by, by renting.

00:39:48.141 --> 00:39:51.651
In fact, when you buy a house, you
will throw away money in a lot of ways.

00:39:51.651 --> 00:39:51.741
I.

00:39:51.741 --> 00:39:55.041
mean, Houses are some of the biggest
money pits you will get, and you

00:39:55.041 --> 00:39:58.401
don't get a return on investment on
everything that you do to a home,

00:39:58.731 --> 00:40:00.081
especially if you're living in the home.

00:40:00.081 --> 00:40:02.481
It's not if you had a rental property
or something that you, and you're a

00:40:02.481 --> 00:40:05.461
real estate investor, that's a little
different and we won't get into that.

00:40:05.461 --> 00:40:08.101
But when it's your own home and you're
doing things because you want it and

00:40:08.101 --> 00:40:11.951
you like it that way, you're never gonna
see all the investment return on that

00:40:11.951 --> 00:40:13.451
money, that those are just the facts.

00:40:13.466 --> 00:40:13.736
Jon: Yep.

00:40:13.796 --> 00:40:15.146
It's a, buying a home.

00:40:15.591 --> 00:40:17.661
and living in a place that is yours.

00:40:17.721 --> 00:40:20.211
It's a lifestyle choice and
that's why people do it.

00:40:20.211 --> 00:40:23.241
They do it because there's an
emotional response to it, right?

00:40:23.301 --> 00:40:26.601
Your home and, and all the
emotions and the feelings that

00:40:26.601 --> 00:40:28.761
go along with owning something.

00:40:28.981 --> 00:40:30.811
there's some, there's a lot
of pride built into that.

00:40:30.811 --> 00:40:33.931
That's what a lot of the American
dream is built on, is home ownership.

00:40:33.931 --> 00:40:36.001
So, and there's a lot of pressure as well.

00:40:36.031 --> 00:40:39.391
'cause that's older generations,
you know, that has what they were

00:40:39.391 --> 00:40:42.571
taught to build wealth is to buy
a home and invest in that stuff.

00:40:42.571 --> 00:40:46.251
So a lot of this stuff, the circumstances
we are dealing with now, and Louis,

00:40:46.251 --> 00:40:49.641
and I probably sound a little tone deaf
to some degree, but I have a lot of

00:40:49.941 --> 00:40:54.531
empathy and sympathy for, for our new
firefighters and trying to figure and

00:40:54.531 --> 00:40:58.191
navigate this stuff because it is, it
is very choppy, but there's a lot of

00:40:58.191 --> 00:41:02.421
places in the country and quite frankly,
the world where it is very common to

00:41:02.421 --> 00:41:03.771
rent your, basically your whole life.

00:41:03.771 --> 00:41:07.251
If you grew up in the Bay Area in
California, a lot of people rent there

00:41:07.251 --> 00:41:11.241
just because, once again, the cost
difference, you know, between owning a

00:41:11.241 --> 00:41:13.761
home versus renting, it's astronomical.

00:41:14.061 --> 00:41:17.691
New York City, a lot of other coastal
areas, people that come from there,

00:41:17.691 --> 00:41:22.041
it's not as foreign to them the concept
of renting a single family home and

00:41:22.041 --> 00:41:23.901
not, you know, and not owning it.

00:41:23.901 --> 00:41:27.261
So a lot of this is just people
that have grown up in this area

00:41:27.261 --> 00:41:29.961
or have been surrounded by people
that have always owned their homes.

00:41:30.261 --> 00:41:33.081
It's, it's just kind of what they know
and what they feel comfortable with.

00:41:33.081 --> 00:41:35.496
So, yeah, once again, we're
trying to look out for.

00:41:35.841 --> 00:41:39.861
your guys' best financial futures,
and this is a very personal decision,

00:41:39.861 --> 00:41:43.621
but, the other thing I will say about
home ownership is, it's really tough

00:41:43.621 --> 00:41:47.251
because, you know, you might find
a place, a starter home, and then,

00:41:47.281 --> 00:41:49.741
you know, after four or five years
you kind of outgrow it or you have

00:41:49.741 --> 00:41:55.691
a family and the, the transactional
cost of real estate is criminal.

00:41:56.076 --> 00:41:56.496
Louie: Brutal.

00:41:56.496 --> 00:41:57.576
Jon: it's just one of those things.

00:41:57.576 --> 00:42:00.621
It's not like selling a stock where,
you pay a little bit on your capital

00:42:00.621 --> 00:42:04.641
gains and then you move on, like a,
it's a pain in the butt to move, but

00:42:04.641 --> 00:42:08.471
b, like the friction loss, the amount
of money you lose in transaction

00:42:08.471 --> 00:42:10.911
stuff between, realtors and all these

00:42:10.996 --> 00:42:12.316
Louie: title companies.

00:42:12.376 --> 00:42:13.456
Oh, It's crazy.

00:42:13.521 --> 00:42:14.806
Jon: so super crazy and

00:42:14.956 --> 00:42:15.676
Louie: know it's criminal.

00:42:15.676 --> 00:42:17.956
Like they've tried to change
some of those things and tried to

00:42:17.956 --> 00:42:19.666
pass some laws, but it's still.

00:42:19.756 --> 00:42:21.076
Absurdly expensive.

00:42:21.146 --> 00:42:21.476
Jon: Yep.

00:42:21.626 --> 00:42:26.546
So that's our little soapbox or tangent on
just home ownership and loans and, whether

00:42:26.546 --> 00:42:28.956
or not it's a good debt versus bad debt.

00:42:28.986 --> 00:42:31.806
A lot of this is gonna depend
on your own personal situations,

00:42:31.806 --> 00:42:35.526
but just don't feel like the, the
train's passing you by, so to speak.

00:42:35.526 --> 00:42:39.216
If you are on the sidelines and,
and you're happy and you're renting

00:42:39.216 --> 00:42:43.266
a place like more power to you, you
have the ability to reach a lot of

00:42:43.266 --> 00:42:44.886
financial milestones in your life.

00:42:44.946 --> 00:42:49.116
And that should not be defined by
where your physical address is.

00:42:49.116 --> 00:42:51.476
Louie: And I think, we'll, we
might address this on a future

00:42:51.711 --> 00:42:51.801
Jon: Yeah.

00:42:51.801 --> 00:42:52.791
It should be a whole other

00:42:52.946 --> 00:42:56.486
Louie: just talk about home
ownership, renting best practices

00:42:56.486 --> 00:42:57.896
if you're going to buy a house.

00:42:57.896 --> 00:42:59.756
and How to set yourself up for success.

00:42:59.756 --> 00:43:02.066
there's a lot that we can delve
into there that we're not gonna do.

00:43:02.066 --> 00:43:05.476
So that's just maybe a little bit of
a teaser for, a future episode where

00:43:05.476 --> 00:43:09.286
we kind of fully delve into mortgage
loans and calculating the cost and

00:43:09.286 --> 00:43:12.796
how much you should be able to spend
from your take home Pay on, on, on.

00:43:12.796 --> 00:43:13.276
housing.

00:43:13.576 --> 00:43:15.046
There's a lot of stuff like
that that we can cover.

00:43:15.046 --> 00:43:18.476
and We probably will at a later
episode, just know that we, we do.

00:43:18.656 --> 00:43:21.116
Empathize with that situation
of wanting to buy a home.

00:43:21.116 --> 00:43:23.616
And, we know it could be a big
blessing, but it could also be a

00:43:23.616 --> 00:43:24.816
curse if you're not doing it right.

00:43:24.861 --> 00:43:25.131
Jon: Man.

00:43:25.131 --> 00:43:28.851
I have heard so many people that
you can just hear the resentment

00:43:28.851 --> 00:43:32.871
in their voice, especially that got
caught in the COVID craze when people

00:43:32.871 --> 00:43:36.711
were basically, sight unseen, making
offers, not doing any inspections.

00:43:36.711 --> 00:43:40.161
And I know of several people that
I've actually sat down with, and they

00:43:40.161 --> 00:43:43.641
are beyond frustrated that they just
felt like they had the fomo, right?

00:43:43.641 --> 00:43:46.191
The fear of missing out, and that
if they didn't get it now, it

00:43:46.191 --> 00:43:47.451
was never gonna happen for 'em.

00:43:47.871 --> 00:43:49.371
And then they got just a turd.

00:43:49.861 --> 00:43:51.481
It's just costing 'em nothing but money.

00:43:51.481 --> 00:43:53.281
And you can just tell
that they're frustrated.

00:43:53.431 --> 00:43:55.831
They're at their wit's end,
this was a huge mistake.

00:43:55.831 --> 00:43:57.961
And for most people, this
will be the one of the biggest

00:43:57.961 --> 00:43:59.491
financial decisions they'll make.

00:43:59.791 --> 00:44:02.881
So go in with your eyes wide open
when you're making those decisions

00:44:02.881 --> 00:44:06.381
and have a solid reason and a game
plan for attacking how you're gonna

00:44:06.381 --> 00:44:07.791
afford that or what that looks like.

00:44:07.856 --> 00:44:07.976
Louie: Yeah.

00:44:07.976 --> 00:44:08.276
That's it.

00:44:08.396 --> 00:44:08.576
Yep.

00:44:09.231 --> 00:44:09.681
Jon: All right.

00:44:09.681 --> 00:44:12.261
you know, and then everything
else culminates into, you

00:44:12.261 --> 00:44:13.341
know, the good verse bad.

00:44:13.341 --> 00:44:17.421
And, and once again, a lot of this is just
pen, but I would say on average, you know,

00:44:17.421 --> 00:44:21.791
most, auto debt is probably not great
because it's a depreciating asset, right?

00:44:21.791 --> 00:44:24.491
I wouldn't probably consider that a
great investment for the most part.

00:44:24.861 --> 00:44:27.861
you know, any kind of credit card
balances is a terrible investment.

00:44:28.071 --> 00:44:29.781
So, we would avoid those.

00:44:30.031 --> 00:44:34.021
and really just anything in which
you're not going to get some type of,

00:44:34.071 --> 00:44:37.941
investment gain out of it would more
or less probably be considered from

00:44:37.941 --> 00:44:41.361
just like a mathematical standpoint,
not a great investment, right?

00:44:41.361 --> 00:44:42.231
By definition.

00:44:42.281 --> 00:44:43.841
Louie: and credit card debt,
it should go without saying.

00:44:43.841 --> 00:44:47.261
At this point, I think most people
intuitively know that if you have

00:44:47.261 --> 00:44:49.961
credit card debt and you're carrying
a balance over from one month to

00:44:49.961 --> 00:44:53.861
another, you're, you are paying
an insane amount of interest, like

00:44:53.891 --> 00:44:55.331
a criminal amount of interest.

00:44:55.361 --> 00:44:58.106
I'm talking 20%, 25%.

00:44:58.106 --> 00:44:58.151
Yeah.

00:44:58.271 --> 00:45:02.711
30% is what you are paying to the credit
card companies for the privilege of

00:45:02.771 --> 00:45:06.581
earning that 2% cash back or that 1.5%,

00:45:06.621 --> 00:45:08.421
mileage points or whatever it is.

00:45:08.871 --> 00:45:11.571
And you're probably spending
more than you would otherwise.

00:45:11.571 --> 00:45:13.881
'cause you realize, eh, it's just
credit card, like no big deal.

00:45:14.271 --> 00:45:17.586
Over time that compounds and it
is a brutal hit to your finances

00:45:17.586 --> 00:45:19.866
if you are carrying credit
card debt and it doesn't help.

00:45:19.866 --> 00:45:24.516
you, It doesn't help you in any way except
for getting you what you want right now.

00:45:24.546 --> 00:45:24.786
Jon: Yep.

00:45:25.266 --> 00:45:26.256
And that's one of the things.

00:45:26.256 --> 00:45:30.906
obviously we know that debt is necessary
for the majority of people listening to

00:45:30.906 --> 00:45:34.506
this, it, it just is, whether that's gonna
be a home or some other type, you're gonna

00:45:34.506 --> 00:45:35.946
have to go to a lender and borrow money.

00:45:36.336 --> 00:45:39.816
Part of the way that that borrower
figures out what basically your rate

00:45:39.816 --> 00:45:42.936
is gonna be, How much you're gonna
have to pay back as far as interest

00:45:43.206 --> 00:45:44.646
is based on your credit score.

00:45:44.956 --> 00:45:48.526
So this is one, once again, like I
was baffled when Louis and I first

00:45:48.526 --> 00:45:50.846
brought this up, to our firefighters.

00:45:50.906 --> 00:45:54.566
just the, once again, the amount of
misinformation and disinformation

00:45:54.566 --> 00:45:56.201
surrounding credit scores was scary.

00:45:56.366 --> 00:45:57.266
Louie: A lot of confusion.

00:45:57.761 --> 00:45:58.796
Jon: A lot of confusion.

00:45:58.796 --> 00:46:02.546
most of our folks, I know at least,
speaking for our organization is

00:46:02.786 --> 00:46:05.936
part of the background processes,
is they actually pull your credit.

00:46:06.371 --> 00:46:09.461
They wanna make sure that you
have a decent credit score.

00:46:09.521 --> 00:46:13.161
And the reason for that is, a lot
of your credit score is around,

00:46:13.261 --> 00:46:15.061
your dependability or reliability.

00:46:15.061 --> 00:46:18.151
how good of a borrower are
you, how, how willing are you

00:46:18.151 --> 00:46:19.991
going to, pay that money back?

00:46:19.991 --> 00:46:23.051
So that's one of the things that, you
know, a lot of public safety agencies

00:46:23.051 --> 00:46:27.711
use it look at just to basically, see
whether or not you have risky behavior.

00:46:27.901 --> 00:46:30.331
and it's just like a little
but look behind the curtain

00:46:30.331 --> 00:46:31.591
into your personal profile,

00:46:31.726 --> 00:46:32.656
Louie: John, I got a good idea.

00:46:32.656 --> 00:46:33.376
I just thought of this.

00:46:33.376 --> 00:46:33.796
Okay.

00:46:33.796 --> 00:46:34.216
Tell me if I'm

00:46:34.351 --> 00:46:35.641
Jon: this a business opportunity?

00:46:35.646 --> 00:46:35.656
This

00:46:35.746 --> 00:46:39.226
Louie: an opportunity for West Metro to
get some different people in our pool.

00:46:39.736 --> 00:46:42.856
I think we should find out who
has the worst credit score.

00:46:42.856 --> 00:46:47.056
Just like tank their terrible credit
and hire those guys with the idea that

00:46:47.056 --> 00:46:48.526
maybe they're hungry, like they know they

00:46:48.571 --> 00:46:48.786
Jon: need to

00:46:48.916 --> 00:46:49.186
Louie: job.

00:46:49.186 --> 00:46:49.846
Like they gotta work

00:46:49.846 --> 00:46:53.106
hard 'cause they got these creditors
breathing down their, neck, they're

00:46:53.106 --> 00:46:56.406
in debt up to their eyeballs and they
know I'm gonna work every single.

00:46:56.406 --> 00:46:57.066
overtime to

00:46:57.261 --> 00:46:57.891
Jon: I've got to, I've got to.

00:46:57.966 --> 00:46:59.826
Louie: I'll work all the
overtimes that you'll give me.

00:47:00.156 --> 00:47:04.416
I'll get Mando and I'll be happy about
it, and I'm gonna just do whatever I know

00:47:04.416 --> 00:47:08.226
I can't afford to lose this job, so I'm
gonna tell this to our new administration.

00:47:08.226 --> 00:47:11.106
We got a new chief, we got a lot
of changes coming and I'm gonna.

00:47:11.386 --> 00:47:11.836
encourage 'em.

00:47:11.836 --> 00:47:14.446
I think you guys should go for the
people that have terrible credit scores.

00:47:14.476 --> 00:47:15.316
'cause they're gonna be hungry.

00:47:15.706 --> 00:47:16.246
They're gonna, they're gonna be

00:47:16.351 --> 00:47:20.181
Jon: I love that reverse psychology,
Louis, that's taking a flyer on

00:47:20.181 --> 00:47:23.551
someone that's got a couple discharges,
a couple bankruptcies, Yeah.

00:47:23.751 --> 00:47:24.801
you might be onto something.

00:47:24.801 --> 00:47:28.191
Our our retention in, recruitment
is gonna go through the roof.

00:47:28.281 --> 00:47:28.371
Oh yeah.

00:47:28.401 --> 00:47:30.621
Because people literally
cannot afford to leave.

00:47:32.241 --> 00:47:33.441
you might be onto something

00:47:33.506 --> 00:47:35.936
Louie: So if you're one of the chiefs
there that listening to this, let's go

00:47:35.936 --> 00:47:37.646
for the guys with the bad credit scores.

00:47:37.646 --> 00:47:37.946
All right.

00:47:37.946 --> 00:47:38.816
That's who we're gonna hire.

00:47:38.961 --> 00:47:39.501
Jon: That's it.

00:47:40.191 --> 00:47:40.881
All right.

00:47:40.881 --> 00:47:44.901
So how, so this is one of the
things that is often just not.

00:47:45.281 --> 00:47:46.781
Not well understood.

00:47:46.931 --> 00:47:50.381
And this is an educational
gap, is how do they actually

00:47:50.621 --> 00:47:51.821
come up with your credit score?

00:47:51.821 --> 00:47:53.291
Is that just some random score?

00:47:53.291 --> 00:47:54.401
Like how does that happen?

00:47:54.401 --> 00:47:58.401
So there's a couple different, credit
bureaus basically that kind of have a

00:47:58.401 --> 00:48:00.861
monopoly honestly, on this whole system.

00:48:00.861 --> 00:48:06.051
So Equifax is one, TransUnion is another
one, and I never, what's the third one?

00:48:06.056 --> 00:48:06.396
Experian.

00:48:06.401 --> 00:48:07.401
Experian, thank you.

00:48:07.731 --> 00:48:09.531
Those are kind of the
three credit bureaus.

00:48:09.531 --> 00:48:14.071
So as your credit is getting pulled,
they will the, they will be the ones that

00:48:14.071 --> 00:48:18.631
report back and they all have a little
bit of a different algorithm on how they

00:48:18.671 --> 00:48:23.261
calculate your physical score, but more or
less universally across all three of 'em.

00:48:23.261 --> 00:48:24.821
This is how they calculate it.

00:48:25.071 --> 00:48:29.751
your biggest influence is
on your payment history.

00:48:29.976 --> 00:48:30.366
All right.

00:48:30.366 --> 00:48:32.106
So once again, reliability.

00:48:32.376 --> 00:48:34.506
Do your, pay your bills on time.

00:48:34.506 --> 00:48:36.426
That makes up 35%.

00:48:36.426 --> 00:48:37.476
So that's a pretty good chunk.

00:48:37.476 --> 00:48:41.076
So almost a third of your overall
credit score is whether or not

00:48:41.076 --> 00:48:42.576
you are timely with your payments.

00:48:42.576 --> 00:48:45.726
So you make that monthly payment
on time and you're not delinquent.

00:48:45.891 --> 00:48:48.411
Louie: can do everything right with credit
cards and the mix and all those other

00:48:48.411 --> 00:48:52.821
things, but if you do not pay your debts
on time, you will have a bad credit score.

00:48:52.971 --> 00:48:53.541
'cause It's over.

00:48:53.541 --> 00:48:54.231
It's about a third.

00:48:54.271 --> 00:48:54.721
Jon: it's a third.

00:48:54.751 --> 00:48:57.146
it's a hill you can't overcome, basically.

00:48:57.146 --> 00:48:57.206
Yeah.

00:48:57.316 --> 00:49:01.176
so right on top of that, an equal of
importance besides your timeliness on

00:49:01.176 --> 00:49:03.811
pavement is basically how much do you owe?

00:49:04.331 --> 00:49:08.471
Alright, so once again, the fancy,
technical term for this is what

00:49:08.471 --> 00:49:10.241
they call credit utilization.

00:49:10.511 --> 00:49:14.531
Alright, so let's make this really
simple and let's say that I have

00:49:14.531 --> 00:49:16.601
basically a thousand dollars, right?

00:49:16.601 --> 00:49:17.951
That's what my credit line is.

00:49:17.951 --> 00:49:19.931
That's how much my credit
card says I can take out.

00:49:20.171 --> 00:49:24.941
That's my amount that I can utilize
if I max that thing out every month

00:49:24.941 --> 00:49:26.651
and put a thousand dollars on that.

00:49:26.651 --> 00:49:29.351
So basically I utilize 100% of my credit.

00:49:29.911 --> 00:49:32.401
the credit reporting
agencies do not like that.

00:49:32.551 --> 00:49:34.861
That basically it's a, it's a
risky behavior that's man, this

00:49:34.861 --> 00:49:37.201
guy is maxing out every month.

00:49:37.481 --> 00:49:38.711
ah, I don't know about this.

00:49:38.761 --> 00:49:42.301
he doesn't seem like he's responsible
with credit when he is utilizing it.

00:49:42.931 --> 00:49:44.311
As much to its capacity.

00:49:44.311 --> 00:49:47.011
So that makes up 30% of your credit score.

00:49:47.011 --> 00:49:49.051
So once again, credit utilization.

00:49:49.201 --> 00:49:52.531
So how much of that credit
you utilize makes up about

00:49:52.531 --> 00:49:54.031
another third of your score?

00:49:54.031 --> 00:49:57.421
So kind of the moral of the story
of that in our tip and trick is, is

00:49:57.421 --> 00:49:59.431
to just keep that utilization low.

00:49:59.851 --> 00:50:03.181
So if I've got a thousand dollars
limit, it's basically just put a

00:50:03.181 --> 00:50:04.621
hundred dollars on there, pay it off.

00:50:04.891 --> 00:50:06.991
Now my utilization rate was 10%.

00:50:06.991 --> 00:50:10.051
That looks much, much better
in the credit bureau's eyes.

00:50:10.061 --> 00:50:13.991
if you are responsible, you can
typically get that limit raised.

00:50:14.141 --> 00:50:16.781
It's as simple as a lot of times
you can just do it on your app.

00:50:17.151 --> 00:50:19.941
on your credit card, you can
obviously give 'em a call or do it

00:50:19.941 --> 00:50:22.431
online and get that limit raised.

00:50:22.561 --> 00:50:25.081
a lot of that just has to do with
their little algorithm behind the

00:50:25.081 --> 00:50:28.471
scenes as far as how much money do you
report, how much money do you make?

00:50:28.651 --> 00:50:30.871
They'll look back and see how
much money you've utilized.

00:50:30.961 --> 00:50:33.781
And for most people, it's not a
big deal to, to increase that.

00:50:33.781 --> 00:50:36.481
So if you are trying to bump up your
credit score a little bit, that's a

00:50:36.481 --> 00:50:40.051
simple little way with not opening a
bunch of lines of credit with just making

00:50:40.051 --> 00:50:42.451
sure that utilization rate, stays low.

00:50:43.506 --> 00:50:44.016
beyond those.

00:50:44.016 --> 00:50:48.546
So those, so between those two, that's
it, that's two thirds of your credit score

00:50:48.546 --> 00:50:50.556
basically is in those two components.

00:50:50.736 --> 00:50:55.216
So paying on time and not maxing out your
credit cards, keeping that balance low.

00:50:55.466 --> 00:50:57.486
on top of that is, new credit.

00:50:57.486 --> 00:51:00.876
So that's also, whenever you apply
for something, there's what's called

00:51:00.936 --> 00:51:04.686
a soft poll and a hard poll or a
soft inquiry and a hard inquiry.

00:51:04.876 --> 00:51:08.506
if it's a hard inquiry, which they
are required to disclose, whenever

00:51:08.506 --> 00:51:11.966
you fill out something, that is
what will go, that's what will get

00:51:11.966 --> 00:51:13.916
reported to the credit bureaus.

00:51:14.156 --> 00:51:18.506
If it's a soft poll, which a lot of
these buy now, pay later, programs

00:51:18.506 --> 00:51:20.106
are, it doesn't get reported.

00:51:20.226 --> 00:51:20.556
All right?

00:51:20.556 --> 00:51:22.116
So that makes up about 10%.

00:51:22.116 --> 00:51:25.746
So if you're going, you know, and
trying to open up a lot of new lines

00:51:25.746 --> 00:51:29.106
of credit, that is obviously something
that could be a little bit of a factor.

00:51:29.106 --> 00:51:30.936
But once again, that's only 10%.

00:51:30.986 --> 00:51:32.846
that's not gonna make or
break any of this stuff.

00:51:33.276 --> 00:51:34.296
credit history.

00:51:34.971 --> 00:51:37.461
So this is just how long
you've owned your credit?

00:51:37.461 --> 00:51:40.161
I still have a credit card
that I specifically keep open.

00:51:40.521 --> 00:51:41.961
I use it once per year.

00:51:41.991 --> 00:51:44.841
I buy a pack of bubble gum or
something else from the convenience

00:51:44.841 --> 00:51:46.731
store just to keep this open.

00:51:46.951 --> 00:51:50.821
but it's been, what, almost 25 years
that I've had this one credit card.

00:51:50.821 --> 00:51:51.586
So it's great.

00:51:51.586 --> 00:51:55.471
It looks like I've been responsible,
I've owned this credit for 25 years.

00:51:55.521 --> 00:51:57.831
That makes up about 15%
of your credit score.

00:51:57.831 --> 00:51:59.781
not always closing out your credit cards.

00:51:59.931 --> 00:52:00.951
Louie: a great piece of advice.

00:52:00.951 --> 00:52:04.831
John, is If you buy, you said you
buy a pack of bubble gum once a year.

00:52:04.831 --> 00:52:05.281
twice a year.

00:52:05.281 --> 00:52:07.036
The reason why you do that 'cause
if you don't, they'll close it.

00:52:07.351 --> 00:52:07.891
They'll close it.

00:52:07.891 --> 00:52:10.051
And they'll be like, this
guy's now using the credit.

00:52:10.051 --> 00:52:11.611
We're just gonna take
it away and close it.

00:52:11.611 --> 00:52:16.291
And if that's your longest standing
credit on your account, it will

00:52:16.771 --> 00:52:18.091
take a hit to your credit history.

00:52:18.361 --> 00:52:19.171
Like John said.

00:52:19.381 --> 00:52:22.541
And it will also increase your,
your credit utilization, right.

00:52:22.541 --> 00:52:24.101
Because now you have
less credit available.

00:52:24.101 --> 00:52:27.221
So if you have this credit
card from your college days,

00:52:27.441 --> 00:52:28.671
assuming there's no fee on it.

00:52:28.981 --> 00:52:30.631
it makes sense to probably keep it open.

00:52:30.631 --> 00:52:34.301
There's not a really great reason to
close that line of credit, because

00:52:34.301 --> 00:52:37.421
it will lower your credit utilization
and it will increase your credit

00:52:37.421 --> 00:52:38.711
history, which are really important.

00:52:38.711 --> 00:52:43.331
So take that old credit card that
you've had since college and buy a.

00:52:43.631 --> 00:52:43.841
Buy a.

00:52:44.121 --> 00:52:46.461
a couple cans of Zinn
a couple times a year.

00:52:47.271 --> 00:52:47.991
And you'll be fine.

00:52:48.026 --> 00:52:48.806
Jon: And you'll be fine.

00:52:48.836 --> 00:52:49.286
That's right.

00:52:49.336 --> 00:52:50.746
that's just your credit
card you use for zi.

00:52:51.076 --> 00:52:52.066
All right, there you go.

00:52:52.066 --> 00:52:55.006
and then last but not
least is about another 10%.

00:52:55.006 --> 00:52:56.356
And this is just credit mix.

00:52:56.476 --> 00:52:59.206
And what they mean by this is
just different forms of credit.

00:52:59.206 --> 00:53:00.766
So credit cards are one form.

00:53:01.036 --> 00:53:02.656
Auto loans are another form.

00:53:02.806 --> 00:53:04.426
Student loans are a form.

00:53:04.426 --> 00:53:05.896
Mortgage mortgages are a form.

00:53:05.896 --> 00:53:09.976
So basically if you just have credit from
a lot of different, like asset classes in

00:53:09.976 --> 00:53:12.386
that capacity, that makes up about 10%.

00:53:12.386 --> 00:53:14.246
But really the moral of the story is here.

00:53:14.426 --> 00:53:18.176
Carrying balances does not
somehow improve your credit.

00:53:18.466 --> 00:53:21.466
That was probably the
number one misconception we

00:53:21.466 --> 00:53:22.636
heard time and time again.

00:53:22.636 --> 00:53:24.886
It's no, the credit cards want
to see you have a balance.

00:53:24.886 --> 00:53:25.756
Well, of course they do.

00:53:25.756 --> 00:53:26.836
'cause that's how they make money.

00:53:27.136 --> 00:53:29.836
But it, it, it is not going to
make your credit score better.

00:53:29.836 --> 00:53:33.316
In fact, it'll make it, it'll make
it worse because once again, your

00:53:33.316 --> 00:53:35.716
utilization rate is gonna be higher.

00:53:36.076 --> 00:53:38.806
That's the amount you owe, which
is a third of your credit score

00:53:38.806 --> 00:53:40.666
is gonna continually be used.

00:53:40.886 --> 00:53:42.806
for paying unpaid balances.

00:53:42.951 --> 00:53:43.341
Louie: Yes.

00:53:43.341 --> 00:53:46.861
So just to say it again because
we're very serious about this.

00:53:46.861 --> 00:53:51.661
Do not carry a balance, on your credit
card from month to month in hopes that

00:53:51.661 --> 00:53:53.641
it's gonna increase your credit score.

00:53:53.641 --> 00:53:56.491
And there's a lot of younger people
out there who don't understand how

00:53:56.491 --> 00:53:58.951
it works, that believe they need
to carry a balance in order for

00:53:58.951 --> 00:54:00.061
them to improve their credit score.

00:54:00.061 --> 00:54:00.721
And that's not true.

00:54:00.721 --> 00:54:03.811
If you pay it off every month,
you'll get the same benefits and

00:54:03.811 --> 00:54:07.261
that and have a better credit score
than if you carried a balance.

00:54:07.531 --> 00:54:08.911
Month to month on that credit card.

00:54:08.941 --> 00:54:09.121
Yep.

00:54:09.226 --> 00:54:11.866
Jon: And you should have a great way
of being able to track your credit.

00:54:11.916 --> 00:54:15.456
Almost every credit card now that I've
seen has a way that basically they

00:54:15.456 --> 00:54:19.326
will give you a free, or as part of
owning that credit card, they'll give

00:54:19.326 --> 00:54:21.246
you a credit report or credit score.

00:54:21.456 --> 00:54:26.106
You're also entitled by law, once
per year to go to free annual credit.

00:54:26.391 --> 00:54:28.281
Louie: I think it's,
yeah, free annual credit.

00:54:28.421 --> 00:54:29.531
Jon: report.com

00:54:29.531 --> 00:54:30.251
or something like that.

00:54:30.251 --> 00:54:32.201
You can Google that or chat GPT it.

00:54:32.201 --> 00:54:34.631
But basically it's
required by legislation.

00:54:34.881 --> 00:54:39.441
that will, that is entitled from each
one of the three credit reporting bureaus

00:54:39.561 --> 00:54:41.631
is to get a free copy of that report.

00:54:41.631 --> 00:54:44.361
You can do that once per year per bureau.

00:54:44.361 --> 00:54:47.521
So if you're just wondering, that
will show everything in totality and

00:54:47.631 --> 00:54:50.541
you just wanna make sure that that
is accurate because there's a lot of

00:54:50.541 --> 00:54:54.071
fraudsters out there, And there's a
lot of, financial fraud that happens.

00:54:54.071 --> 00:54:55.361
So that's one way to prevent it.

00:54:55.661 --> 00:54:58.761
But something that got brought up in
one of the, one of our discussions

00:54:58.761 --> 00:55:01.431
that I hadn't really thought about
and I haven't used personally, but

00:55:01.431 --> 00:55:05.061
I know Louie can speak to this,
is ways to protect your credit.

00:55:05.451 --> 00:55:07.131
And that is by freezing your credit.

00:55:07.131 --> 00:55:08.001
You wanna chat on that a

00:55:08.101 --> 00:55:08.191
Louie: bit?

00:55:08.191 --> 00:55:08.431
Yeah.

00:55:08.571 --> 00:55:09.171
Jon: on that, Louis?

00:55:09.261 --> 00:55:09.561
Sure.

00:55:09.596 --> 00:55:12.766
Louie: a lot of people know that
stolen identity is a real thing.

00:55:12.796 --> 00:55:15.316
Stolen credit cards, people
have skimmers that they.

00:55:15.676 --> 00:55:20.146
Put on ATM machines or put on, you
know, at convenience stores, and then

00:55:20.146 --> 00:55:22.786
all of a sudden they get all these
fraudulent charges against their credit

00:55:22.786 --> 00:55:25.816
cards or debit cards, or they get new
lines of credits that are being pulled

00:55:25.816 --> 00:55:29.776
out because they, there was a social
security breach at some, you know, at

00:55:29.836 --> 00:55:32.896
whoever, Verizon or T-Mobile or wherever.

00:55:33.296 --> 00:55:35.696
and then they have these new
credits and it, you know, you could

00:55:35.696 --> 00:55:39.146
eventually get it fixed, but it can
do serious damage to your credit in

00:55:39.146 --> 00:55:40.826
the meantime until they get it fixed.

00:55:41.456 --> 00:55:45.086
So there's, there's two lines of
thought for how people can help with,

00:55:45.396 --> 00:55:49.756
stolen identity or, or, fraudulent
lines of credit taken out one way.

00:55:49.756 --> 00:55:52.666
and the one that you see a lot of
people pitch is credit monitoring.

00:55:52.666 --> 00:55:57.501
And credit monitoring is basically,
someone, a company telling you

00:55:57.531 --> 00:56:00.651
that your identity has been stolen
or that new lines of credit have

00:56:00.651 --> 00:56:02.731
been pulled out, against your name.

00:56:03.031 --> 00:56:05.941
But that happens after the fact,
so you basically have to do

00:56:05.941 --> 00:56:07.981
damage control after the fact.

00:56:08.341 --> 00:56:10.741
What I use and what I like and
tell people that they should

00:56:10.741 --> 00:56:12.571
consider is doing a credit freeze.

00:56:13.081 --> 00:56:15.931
What a credit freeze does is it
prevents new lines of credit from

00:56:15.931 --> 00:56:18.301
being drawn or taken out in your name.

00:56:18.691 --> 00:56:22.861
Now, it does require more work to set
these up because you have to go through

00:56:22.861 --> 00:56:26.581
each of the bureaus that John mentioned,
so Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion.

00:56:27.186 --> 00:56:30.456
You have to create an account and
then you have to freeze your credit.

00:56:30.756 --> 00:56:34.716
What happens when you freeze your credit
is that no one can pull out new lines

00:56:34.716 --> 00:56:37.296
of credit in your name, including you.

00:56:37.446 --> 00:56:38.556
You can't be like, you know what?

00:56:38.556 --> 00:56:39.576
I want this credit card.

00:56:39.846 --> 00:56:41.076
Let me go pull it out.

00:56:41.166 --> 00:56:42.816
Let me just go open this new credit card.

00:56:42.846 --> 00:56:46.506
You will get rejected because they
will not be able to open that line

00:56:46.506 --> 00:56:47.946
of credit when your credit is frozen.

00:56:47.976 --> 00:56:53.016
In order to get a new line of credit,
you would have to log in to those

00:56:53.226 --> 00:56:55.026
bureaus, those credit bureaus, and.

00:56:55.146 --> 00:56:57.336
Thaw your credit or unfreeze your credit.

00:56:57.736 --> 00:57:00.226
and they have these kind of fancy
ways where you can do it for 24

00:57:00.226 --> 00:57:03.496
hours or even a week or whatever, and
then it automatically freezes again.

00:57:04.096 --> 00:57:07.536
so it, it requires a little bit more
work, but then you can be more secure

00:57:07.536 --> 00:57:10.236
in knowing that no one is gonna steal
your credit and open new lines of

00:57:10.236 --> 00:57:12.006
credit if you have those in place.

00:57:12.216 --> 00:57:14.796
So I strongly encourage if you
don't freeze your credit that it's

00:57:14.796 --> 00:57:18.516
something you should consider doing
because it'll prevent some kind

00:57:18.516 --> 00:57:20.191
of costly and just some headaches.

00:57:20.331 --> 00:57:21.441
Jon: Headaches, headaches.

00:57:21.441 --> 00:57:21.801
Yep.

00:57:21.801 --> 00:57:25.141
Anyone that's had their identity
stolen or some type of, credit card or

00:57:25.141 --> 00:57:28.501
something compromised, it's just a huge
pain in the ass to get that rectified.

00:57:28.711 --> 00:57:30.301
Louie: And it is free to
do it at all the bureaus.

00:57:30.301 --> 00:57:32.371
I think it's a law now that
they have to provide that.

00:57:32.441 --> 00:57:33.311
service for free.

00:57:33.701 --> 00:57:37.121
So I strongly encourage you guys to,
to freeze your credit and not have to

00:57:37.271 --> 00:57:40.331
worry about whether or not someone's
taking out new credit in your name.

00:57:40.421 --> 00:57:43.351
Jon: Yeah, that's definitely,
industry best practices for sure.

00:57:43.351 --> 00:57:46.051
So thanks for bringing that
to our attention, Louis.

00:57:46.121 --> 00:57:49.361
so one of the things I wanted to chat
on really quickly, you know, we're

00:57:49.361 --> 00:57:52.811
kind of coming up on about an hour or
so, which is always, seems like all

00:57:52.811 --> 00:57:54.521
our episodes last about an hour or so.

00:57:54.521 --> 00:57:56.261
That's apparently just what we've got.

00:57:56.591 --> 00:57:58.931
but I know it's, I know it's concerning.

00:57:58.931 --> 00:58:01.991
It's concerning to me and I know
it's becoming more of a thing.

00:58:02.241 --> 00:58:05.651
so I feel like a lot of the audience
will probably resonate with this,

00:58:05.801 --> 00:58:07.806
but it's these buy now pay later.

00:58:08.411 --> 00:58:11.891
Firms that are starting to pop
up and they're everywhere, right?

00:58:12.111 --> 00:58:15.081
so Klarna is probably one
of the world's biggest.

00:58:15.081 --> 00:58:16.941
Affirm is another one.

00:58:17.161 --> 00:58:19.441
Amazon is onto this Apple.

00:58:19.441 --> 00:58:23.671
There's a whole subsidiary of different
businesses that the, that they offer this.

00:58:23.911 --> 00:58:25.081
But it's very easy, right?

00:58:25.081 --> 00:58:30.041
Once again, you basically create account,
but it, it allows you to pay over time.

00:58:30.251 --> 00:58:30.701
All right.

00:58:30.761 --> 00:58:30.851
Right.

00:58:31.421 --> 00:58:35.861
And most of the time if you make these
installment payments or you meet the

00:58:35.861 --> 00:58:40.001
certain time in which this has to be paid
back, there literally is 0% interest.

00:58:40.001 --> 00:58:40.931
there's no catch to that.

00:58:40.931 --> 00:58:42.281
It's just like your credit card.

00:58:42.551 --> 00:58:46.061
If you pay it off in time, there
is no fee associated with that.

00:58:46.061 --> 00:58:47.441
You are not paying any interest.

00:58:47.446 --> 00:58:47.456
It's

00:58:47.546 --> 00:58:47.996
Louie: free money.

00:58:48.176 --> 00:58:48.386
So

00:58:48.401 --> 00:58:49.751
Jon: it's basically free money.

00:58:49.761 --> 00:58:51.441
why would I not do this?

00:58:51.751 --> 00:58:55.381
but the problem is that a lot
of people now are using these

00:58:55.381 --> 00:58:57.121
to finance certain things.

00:58:57.301 --> 00:59:00.211
So they're not using it to pay
it off at the end of the month.

00:59:00.211 --> 00:59:03.121
But now, instead of, you know, if
you're making a purchase of, let's

00:59:03.121 --> 00:59:06.841
say it's a thousand dollars, rather
than pay that off, in two months,

00:59:06.931 --> 00:59:08.401
I'm gonna pay it off over a year.

00:59:08.451 --> 00:59:09.081
That's a lot better.

00:59:09.081 --> 00:59:10.401
It's only 80 bucks a month.

00:59:10.401 --> 00:59:13.821
Instead of the 500 a month, I
would've had to pay it off before.

00:59:14.241 --> 00:59:18.801
The problem with that is, they're catchy
in that they actually are putting you into

00:59:19.071 --> 00:59:23.601
an actual a, a loan repayment plan, which
once again, they're pulling your credit.

00:59:23.721 --> 00:59:26.691
It's a hard credit inquiry,
so it's affecting your credit.

00:59:26.696 --> 00:59:26.996
Louie: hard?

00:59:26.996 --> 00:59:29.576
Is it hard pull every time you
get, use one of those services?

00:59:29.751 --> 00:59:33.771
Jon: only if you use it beyond
basically the free terms.

00:59:33.771 --> 00:59:36.771
And most of these places that I
could do research on were between

00:59:36.771 --> 00:59:39.521
30 days to to three to four months.

00:59:39.521 --> 00:59:42.761
If you pay it off in that time over,
you know, a couple installments,

00:59:42.761 --> 00:59:45.761
call it three or four installments,
it wouldn't cost you anything.

00:59:45.971 --> 00:59:48.431
But if you go beyond that, which
a lot of people do, 'cause they

00:59:48.431 --> 00:59:51.761
purchase something for 2,500 bucks
and they're like, man, I don't want

00:59:51.761 --> 00:59:52.901
to pay this off in three months.

00:59:52.901 --> 00:59:53.891
I'll do it in a year.

00:59:54.221 --> 00:59:55.691
They don't read the fine print.

00:59:55.691 --> 00:59:59.621
And then they're basically being charged
like true credit card rates, you know,

00:59:59.621 --> 01:00:03.041
18, 19, 20% to finance that stuff.

01:00:03.041 --> 01:00:08.381
They've, they get it confused with
the literally the 0% installments and

01:00:08.381 --> 01:00:10.121
now they go into a financing option.

01:00:10.121 --> 01:00:12.916
And I've seen a lot of our
folks talk about using this and.

01:00:13.316 --> 01:00:14.846
Literally, you can use it for everything.

01:00:14.846 --> 01:00:18.296
You can use it to buy a little
Caesars pizza as you can.

01:00:18.476 --> 01:00:20.846
You can do installment
payments on that stuff.

01:00:20.846 --> 01:00:24.666
So it's just one of those buyer
beware, situations that we wanted

01:00:24.666 --> 01:00:27.786
to address with you guys because I,
I've been hearing a lot about it.

01:00:27.786 --> 01:00:30.486
I've done a little bit of research
on it and I know people that've used

01:00:30.486 --> 01:00:33.786
it and they've used it responsible
just like with certain credit cards.

01:00:34.026 --> 01:00:37.566
But you really have to dig into the
details with some of these things.

01:00:37.566 --> 01:00:40.896
And I would just harken back to
what we kind of talked about in the

01:00:40.896 --> 01:00:44.516
beginning and just really reprioritizing
you know, the amount of money that

01:00:44.516 --> 01:00:45.656
you have and where it's going.

01:00:45.656 --> 01:00:48.416
And is this something
really that you truly need?

01:00:48.416 --> 01:00:49.316
Or is this a want?

01:00:49.316 --> 01:00:49.376
Yeah.

01:00:49.676 --> 01:00:52.486
And a lot of times those
lines get muddied by us.

01:00:52.546 --> 01:00:55.856
and there's a certain sense of
entitlement with that goes with that,

01:00:55.856 --> 01:00:57.446
where we're just like, oh, I work hard.

01:00:57.446 --> 01:00:58.496
I deserve this kind of thing.

01:00:58.496 --> 01:00:58.856
So

01:00:59.216 --> 01:00:59.306
Louie: and

01:00:59.356 --> 01:01:00.106
Jon: just be careful with

01:01:00.336 --> 01:01:02.976
Louie: Be very careful and I can
al I already know there's some

01:01:02.976 --> 01:01:04.296
smart asses that are listening.

01:01:04.296 --> 01:01:04.596
here.

01:01:04.596 --> 01:01:07.186
It's 'cause they're firefighters
that are going, but.

01:01:07.806 --> 01:01:11.376
Louis and John, you guys just
told me about opportunity cost.

01:01:11.376 --> 01:01:18.896
So if I can take a four month, a firm
loan and keep that money invested,

01:01:18.896 --> 01:01:22.856
instead, Then I am, I'm sticking
it to the man, I'm making money.

01:01:22.856 --> 01:01:24.446
Like I'm crazy not to do it.

01:01:24.786 --> 01:01:27.456
but I think what we're trying to say
is you're kind of playing with fire

01:01:27.456 --> 01:01:30.516
and the chances that you're gonna
have that invested, which you're, if

01:01:30.516 --> 01:01:34.176
you invest for the long term, four,
four months is not the long term.

01:01:34.176 --> 01:01:37.626
You shouldn't be investing your
money, for four months with the

01:01:37.626 --> 01:01:41.226
idea of selling it higher and
then being able to pay off your.

01:01:41.706 --> 01:01:43.146
little Caesar's pizza.

01:01:43.216 --> 01:01:44.116
You're playing with fire.

01:01:44.116 --> 01:01:44.626
so don't,

01:01:45.031 --> 01:01:46.381
Jon: generally not advisable.

01:01:46.726 --> 01:01:47.296
Louie: Don't do that.

01:01:47.296 --> 01:01:47.866
Don't do that.

01:01:47.866 --> 01:01:50.176
that's not how you're gonna make
money and stick it to the man.

01:01:50.221 --> 01:01:51.301
Jon: Yes, exactly.

01:01:51.301 --> 01:01:54.661
So once again, if you're coming up with
a installment or a strategy on how to

01:01:54.661 --> 01:01:58.341
pay something off, maybe just save up
a little bit more money, work that over

01:01:58.341 --> 01:02:02.331
time or two, just keep it in the bank
and then just pay it off all in once

01:02:02.331 --> 01:02:06.261
and get those credit card reward points
that you need to go fly to Europe for.

01:02:06.261 --> 01:02:09.331
So there's other ways to do it,
but I've just, I wanted to at least

01:02:09.331 --> 01:02:12.621
bring, put that, in our notes to shed
a little bit of light on, because

01:02:12.621 --> 01:02:15.286
I know, there has been some people
that have gotten burned by that.

01:02:15.601 --> 01:02:15.661
Yeah.

01:02:15.661 --> 01:02:19.231
So just buyer beware with, Klarna
and any of these other buy now,

01:02:19.291 --> 01:02:20.991
pay later type, businesses.

01:02:21.111 --> 01:02:21.201
Boom.

01:02:21.501 --> 01:02:21.861
Louie: Boom.

01:02:22.111 --> 01:02:23.431
I think that pretty much concludes it.

01:02:23.431 --> 01:02:26.851
We covered a lot of stuff about debt and
we know it's a very personal topic as we

01:02:26.851 --> 01:02:30.121
talked about earlier, I think the major
points that we're trying to get across

01:02:30.121 --> 01:02:32.271
is that debt robs from your future, by.

01:02:32.786 --> 01:02:35.396
Crippling your number one wealth
building tool, which is your income.

01:02:35.796 --> 01:02:39.336
and the cost of debt is not just
the interest you pay, it's the

01:02:39.336 --> 01:02:41.466
opportunity cost of what you
could have done with that money.

01:02:41.886 --> 01:02:44.076
Those are the kind of lessons
that we want to get across here.

01:02:44.766 --> 01:02:48.066
Not judging anyone, not making
you feel bad, just want you to

01:02:48.066 --> 01:02:49.356
consider that going forward.

01:02:49.671 --> 01:02:49.941
Jon: Yep.

01:02:50.011 --> 01:02:50.551
that's good.

01:02:50.551 --> 01:02:51.331
And that's well said.

01:02:51.391 --> 01:02:54.681
One of the things, obviously this
was more of just a general overview

01:02:54.741 --> 01:02:56.541
about debt, generally speaking.

01:02:56.591 --> 01:03:01.601
We know, we just touched on, on some,
on some threads, regarding, auto loans

01:03:01.601 --> 01:03:05.111
and mortgages and home ownership and
just really on the surface level.

01:03:05.376 --> 01:03:07.626
Those will be episodes all to themselves.

01:03:07.656 --> 01:03:10.566
'cause they really do afford more
of an opportunity to discuss those.

01:03:10.816 --> 01:03:13.756
someone I can guarantee you is gonna be
like, oh cool, they're talking about debt.

01:03:13.786 --> 01:03:15.856
Why didn't they talk about 4 57 loans?

01:03:16.096 --> 01:03:20.176
That is the number one question
that Louis and I get all the time.

01:03:20.226 --> 01:03:23.856
Once again, we hear you and we will
specifically talk about certain

01:03:23.856 --> 01:03:28.246
strategies and if you do need to take
out, some type of loan, like where

01:03:28.246 --> 01:03:31.606
should you source that loan from, and
best practices when it comes to that.

01:03:31.606 --> 01:03:34.276
But we just wanted to, once
again, from more of a holistic.

01:03:34.961 --> 01:03:38.711
Standpoint, talk about how it's how,
what goes into debt as far as your credit

01:03:38.711 --> 01:03:40.741
scores and some of these finer details.

01:03:40.741 --> 01:03:45.551
So there'll definitely be a lot more to
come on that, just as some other teasers.

01:03:45.581 --> 01:03:47.461
we will having an episode talking about.

01:03:47.761 --> 01:03:51.481
The beep beep B, the big beautiful Bill.

01:03:51.701 --> 01:03:55.091
once again, that's new legislation
for those of the you that don't

01:03:55.091 --> 01:03:58.361
know, that's new legislation that
was passed by President Trump.

01:03:58.361 --> 01:04:00.941
He signed that on our
Independence Day, July 4th.

01:04:00.941 --> 01:04:02.771
But a lot of moving parts with that.

01:04:02.771 --> 01:04:05.861
I still have not gotten to go through
all of it and its entirety, but there's

01:04:05.861 --> 01:04:09.821
definitely some things that specifically,
Could affect firefighters, and a

01:04:09.821 --> 01:04:11.561
lot of other moving parts with that.

01:04:11.561 --> 01:04:14.801
So we're gonna have an episode all
designated just to the big beautiful

01:04:14.801 --> 01:04:17.501
bill 'cause there are a lot of things
that are coming out that will actually

01:04:17.501 --> 01:04:21.381
be beneficial honestly, to a lot of
our members, in lowering some taxes

01:04:21.381 --> 01:04:24.321
and just keeping some other credits
available and some other stuff like that.

01:04:24.321 --> 01:04:27.081
I've been asked a lot about
that specific legislation.

01:04:27.081 --> 01:04:30.201
So Lou and I will do a deep
dive on the big beautiful bill.

01:04:30.301 --> 01:04:33.561
just kind give you some of the
Reader's Digest or the chat GPT

01:04:33.561 --> 01:04:35.181
notes on how it's gonna apply to us.

01:04:35.631 --> 01:04:36.531
That's perfect.

01:04:36.531 --> 01:04:36.541
Perfect.

01:04:36.891 --> 01:04:37.551
All right, man.

01:04:37.551 --> 01:04:40.101
Without further ado, Louie, it
feels good to be back in local

01:04:40.696 --> 01:04:41.566
Louie: back in the saddle.

01:04:41.566 --> 01:04:42.106
Let's go.

01:04:42.141 --> 01:04:43.761
Jon: It is just like riding a bike, baby.

01:04:43.881 --> 01:04:43.941
Yeah.

01:04:44.021 --> 01:04:44.981
it's been fun.

01:04:45.171 --> 01:04:49.131
thank you all for being patient and I
hope everyone had a wonderful summer.

01:04:49.401 --> 01:04:52.371
I hope you got to spend it with
your friends and family and maybe go

01:04:52.371 --> 01:04:54.681
someplace or maybe just not be at work.

01:04:54.751 --> 01:04:55.351
nonetheless.

01:04:55.401 --> 01:04:57.141
we really appreciate y'all out there.

01:04:57.191 --> 01:04:58.181
love doing this with Glu.

01:04:58.451 --> 01:05:01.541
we'll be back next month another
episode of the Physical Firehouse.

01:05:01.701 --> 01:05:02.841
Louie: Stay safe and keep saving.

01:05:05.234 --> 01:05:08.564
The Fiscal Firehouse Podcast is
a podcast curated specifically

01:05:08.564 --> 01:05:10.304
for local 1309 members.

01:05:10.424 --> 01:05:14.114
This podcast is for informational
and educational purposes only,

01:05:14.324 --> 01:05:17.234
and should not be construed as
professional financial advice.

01:05:17.384 --> 01:05:20.114
Should you need professional
advice, consult a licensed

01:05:20.234 --> 01:05:22.634
financial advisor or tax advisor.

01:05:22.814 --> 01:05:26.684
The opinions of John Beatty, Louis
Barilla and their castmates are

01:05:26.684 --> 01:05:29.924
solely their own, and don't reflect
that of West Metro Fire Rescue.