Show Notes
Intro: songwriting
Let Me Run This By You: The fatal weight of expectations, intentional mourning,
Roadmap Writers,
Interview: We talk to Nasma Toukan
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? I figured. I feel like I don't know what day it is. I
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Know I'm sure. I'm sure I don't know what I'm doing yet.
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And part
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Of what's made it even weird is that for whatever reason, I, when I was setting up my kids a day camps for
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The summer, I
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Failed to realize that this week two of them are in opposite directions each one hour away from my house. So I've been spending like six hours a day driving.
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Oh my God.
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Yeah. Now the good part, because I was like trying to take advantage to the best of my ability of the time is I started to write
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Some songs. I've always
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Really been interested in writing songs and I've written a few, but I don't play music. I don't know anything about like writing music. So I'm like, so I'm trying to work with my family who are mostly all musicians to get like, to, to, to collaborate. So
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Are you all writing songs while you drive the kids or is that what's happening?
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Yeah. Well, I am just sort of like thinking through themes and, and ideas and how, what I really love about good songwriting, modern good song writing is how it can vary up the cadence. My tendency is to be like, <inaudible>, you know, like the, the rhyme scheme is all very the same and I love how people can make B just unexpected and mix it up. So.
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Awesome. Yeah. I mean, it's something new to try.
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So speaking of songs, I went for the first time to a rock show in two years, yea. So Bexley was playing and I'm not managing them, which is good, which is good. They need, they need, I just think they need someone who knows and has a little bit more, well, one, they didn't really want me to, they were like, you're a, like, I am helping, I'm helping I'm being a helper, but, but anyways, so I went to their show and it was three bands and Bexley was playing last.
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And so I haven't been out as past 10:00 PM in maybe, you know, out past 11 actually in like years. So anyway, we went to this venue and in LA, like the arts district kind of downtown and we help sell their t-shirts, which was really miles. My husband and I did, and which was really fun. But what I noticed was, you know, the amount of, I haven't performed in so long, so long. So I used to perform at like mostly reading my writing or in a play or whatever, like we know, but I haven't done that. So that was really interesting to watch.
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I was like, oh, I missed that. I missed that. But the other thing, bringing it to the song stuff is that, like, I just have so much respect for artists that perform in front of other people that saying, and I mean, it is, I always, I forgot because I haven't because of the pandemic and I haven't seen it for so long and I haven't been to live music in so long, but I'm like, this is just like magic that this even can happen at all. That four people on a stage can, can come together, memorize play the same thing with a lot of energy it's loud, it's it was just really beautiful to watch, but it also was like, wow, this is I'm, I'm sort of become really interested in like, what does it take to, to have a good song, like, or a good writing or good whatever.
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Like what makes, what is the magic that makes a song really work or a piece of writing really work, you know? And I don't know what that is, but I, you know, it when you see it, you know, it's undeniable
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And my, my new barometer for everything is just based on this advice. I got, it was advice. I w it was not, if I, somebody was giving me advice, I absorbed somehow. Okay. Which is simply that I think I've said on the podcast before, if you have heard it before, then don't write that,
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Write that thing that you
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Haven't heard. Right. Because it's so easy, you've listened to 10 million songs in your life. It's so easy to sit down and be like, okay, well, songs usually go like this. I mean, I'm not talking about the structure. I just mean if it's, if it's, if there's too much, oh, this is like this song, this song, this song, and this song, then, then that means you don't really have something unique to say, and you, but there is something unique in there. You just have to figure out what it is. Well,
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That's, I think you're right. I think that it is same with writing, right? It's like, what is your take on this theme? Like you were talking about themes. That is all, oh, and I was talking to someone else and saying like, why you, why now, why this? Right. So like, that's what really, what I'm asking myself about everything that I'm doing. And, and then when I talk to like younger people or people that I may be mentoring in some way, I'm like, we got to get really clear on why, why you, why now, why this piece, why this project, why this thing? And it's like, those are really important questions to ask. And I don't ask myself enough.
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Yeah, for sure. It's yeah. It's hard because sometimes you just start writing something that means something to you personally, and something could be excellent Lee written and very personal to you. But if it's not providing something to the culture, then there may not be a place for it right
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Now. Not right now, not right now. You know? And, and it's just interesting. Or, or take the, take the note too, for me of like really ho then honing it in. Why now? Why, what, and then tweaking it based on that. But then you, on the other hand, you have a lot of shit that gets made that shouldn't be made right now. So I, I mean, there's no steadfast rule, but I think, but I think when in doubt, ask those questions of myself and then it'll, it can only make, it can only make the thing better. Yeah,
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Absolutely. Absolutely. I will have to say in case we have, I know we do have, you know, faithful listeners who listened to every episode. It has not been three years since you've been out that late. You were out that late recently when you went to your class reunion. Oh, you are right.
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The faithful you're right. You're right. Yeah. I was
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Out really late somebody. Cause that's what I do
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When I listen to podcasts. If, when I find, when there's something that they're saying, Nope, that's not true. Let me run this by you. I mean, so last time we talked, I told, told you all about the, what's the word for it? The story of the saga, the epics, the long, the lifelong story that has a new chapter in it, which is the story of me and my family and my dad and my sister and my sister died unexpectedly on, I think she actually died a week ago yesterday, although pending autopsy.
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Cause she was very young 50. She would have turned 55 day before yesterday. And it's very weird to be mourning somebody that you haven't spoken to in 17 years. But, and, but to feel it, I presume the same way I would be if I had, I mean, it's certainly, if we had been on the phone to each other every day, maybe it would have a, to be a different kind of hurt, but it's the same kind of hurt I felt with my dad, which is like, okay, well now it's over. And one thing that you always hope for when you have difficult relationships with family members is that you just hope for change.
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You just hope that one day his circumstances are going to be different. And, and what was the impediment to your closeness is now gone. And then when they die, that's really, you really can't hope for that anymore.
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Yeah. I mean, I think that it, it's a, it's a second kind of loss, right? So it's a loss of a dream, the loss of a hope. So you're dealing with two, probably many, but two definite losses, the loss of the life and the loss of the dream that you could reconnect. And that is real rough and it, and it, yeah. And, and the loss of the, that things could have been, you know, maybe been different. And now that there's no hope left and it's rough, it is a rough thing. And I think that's just what it is. It's hard.
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That's just what it is. It's hard. And I have been, Hmm. Maybe because of my distance from her, I have had the, also the distance in grieving her to say to myself, what, what is it about her that I want to remember, because this has happened to me twice now. W when somebody who you had conflict with dies, one of the first things that happens is whatever anger you felt. It, it didn't, it didn't totally leave, but like it's 98% gone.
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Right. You know? And, and instead I want to remember about, you know, who she was, but I don't think she was alone in being a person who was so bound by other people's expectations of her that I'm not totally, like, I don't know who she really was. And I think that's because she didn't know who she really was. And I think that's because she was always beautiful. And this is something I've really learned about beautiful people is they say, it's very limiting for them.
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I feel, especially for women, it's extremely limiting. She was a gorgeous baby and child, and everybody has only ever mostly given her that feedback. So like, this has just been this continuous loop of you're beautiful. You're beautiful. You're beautiful. Which nobody realizes inherent in that is the absence of, oh, and you're a good person and you're smart and you're whatever. So I've been trying to figure out, okay, besides being beautiful, what was she? And I don't have the answers yet. I'm hoping to find out, but one way I'm, I'm learning a little bit about it as when I can look at old pictures, pictures of her and her childhood before all of the trauma.
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And it's more clear. Do you ever see that you go, oh, that's that look in your eye? I didn't know that look because I was too young when you had that look, but that's, I don't totally know exactly, but who that person is, but I know that that's
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Who you yeah. Yes, absolutely. And that's was who she was. I think this is, it's really interesting that you're talking about. Like, you can choose in a way and how to remember somebody that is fascinating to me and it's true. And, but like work through, cause it, you, right. It would be so easy to say, eh, for people and, and, and for, for her, like she was this, she was beautiful and she was troubled like that. Okay. And she had strained relationships, but that's not really who she was. That was what happened to her. Right. But like who she was you're right. Is that fire in the eye pre trauma.
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It's really interesting. It's really interesting. So maybe it's helpful if any of our listeners are out there that, that are working with these issues, it's like maybe try to find a photo of the person pre whatever your, their trauma was and see if that could help, you know, or
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Of yourself. I realized my, I think, I think it was okay to say my mom's sponsor when she was first getting sober, encouraged her to get photographs of herself from when she was a little girl and put them up. And I, to tell you the truth, I was at the time I was a teenager, I thought it was really weird. And I hadn't remembered it until just now, but that I bet that's it. I bet part of it is just reconnect with who you were, because you were born a perfect person and life, you know, shaped you in these various ways. It gives you a lot of compassion.
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I mean, almost, I think anybody, almost anybody, but actually anybody comes into this life with no bad intentions with no, you know, just wanting to like, that's weird. You come into life wanting to be the fullest version of yourself. Not, not consciously, of course, but that's just, you're born with that tension. Like just be who you are. And then basically what you get is a series of messages about why you can't do that. Or you don't, or you have a great upbringing and you, you don't get told that, or you don't get told very much, but I feel like my sister told that exclusively, like, here's how you have to be, you know, and her whole life was just this whirling dervish of like trying to be that person and feeling resentful about it.
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But then being in the cage of, I think she didn't even know why she had the cage that she had, but she was definitely in this prison of expectations. Wow. Other people's expectations of her. So my hope for her, if there's a great beyond is that she's free from people's expectations of her. And she can just be the beautiful spirit anyway, making a complete left turn or right.
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Tell me about what's been going on with you. I normally we have so much more than we've had in the last couple of weeks,
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So true. I am. Okay. So I finished, well, I'm out, I'm now on draft. I'm still working with my mentor, Don on, on hold my calls and I'm on draft seven, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and, and, and I talked a little bit about this, but so I entered that contest for log lines and they picked it and then they wanted to see a full script. So I was like, oh, okay. And then I had a meeting with the woman from that company who picked the script, who asked to see the script. And she's amazing her name. She's amazing. I will just put it out there that Nita at roadmap writers, just the coolest, most generous.
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So their roadmap writers is like an organization that helps. Right. It helps screenwriters television writers and film writers to, to like get reps and, and get in the industry. It's like, that's theirs and they have classes and things like that. But she, it just was really, I gotta say, like I've had meetings where people where I really feel like people are lovely, but they just cannot help. Or they're not in a position to help she's in a position to help. And is me in the conversation. I walked away from the meeting feeling like it's possible to be writer at 45 going on 46.
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It's possible too. So that was really lovely because inherent in a lot of the meetings that I've go on, which is, oh, and the meetings that I've go on are usually friends of friends or like connections that it's not the thing that I walk away feeling terrible. Although sometimes I do and that's my own shit and mixed with other shit. But mostly what it is, is like, oh, they can't really forward advance my cause as a writer or, or, or they're not available. They don't want to, whatever it is. But this really felt, she's just felt so genuine and hopeful about women writers, especially middle-aged women writers.
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And I don't know it was a, that was a great meeting. So I don't know nothing has happened. Like it's so interesting in this industry. It's like, it's like, I think there's so many steps and then something hits, right. So many beings, like it is like, I thought it was like a couple of building blocks. And then you get there, there's probably a hundred hundreds of these little blocks is little stones. It's more like stepping stones than it is these blocks, you know? And so I feel like I'm really building towards something and that was a great meeting and I've had, and I had, yeah, I, that was last week.
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And I
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I've heard that, that by the way, so many times about in various ways, just you think that there's some, once somebody said, you think there's maybe 10 levels of success in this industry and really there's 10,000. I mean,
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That's so true. And so I feel like where I am is now realizing that like, oh, okay. And there are 10,000 little, little stepping stones and I'm somewhere in the middle of all that. And there's different levels, right? So like, then you have a success here. And so I just am focusing on trying to get this script to the B the best to can, like, that's, that's my thing. Like, get it to be the best you can. And my mentor Don is just golden. She's just, she goes above and beyond, and she's so lovely. And I've never worked with someone who I'm not, and this speaks to me too, like, like I've never worked with someone who I haven't been either petrified of or the opposite didn't respect.
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So, because I live in that world, I can live in that black and white thinking. So Don is the first mentor that I've had where I'm like, okay, I do, I do value her opinion. I do trust what she says. There is a level of admiration that leads to a little bit of, I don't know about fear, but it's like, I want to do good, but it's not because I'm afraid. She won't love me. If I it's more, it's like healthier. So that's what I'm saying. So I'm having a healthier relationship with my mentor also
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Sounds like a difference from what you've previously experienced and what I've experienced a little bit too, is there's a lot of people in this industry who, when they off, when they purport to be offering something to you or hinting at offering something to you, it's really just the way that they're leveraging hoping you'll give them something. Right. You know what I mean? Or
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Like, or like, right. They feel they don't really have anything
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To offer, but th but they're faking it till they make it. Like, they're saying, well, if I, if I sort of pretend like I can open certain doors for you, then that will actually help me. And then you're going, I just know that I've been, I've had that experience many times of talking to somebody who's saying, yes, I'm, this is great. And I'm totally into you. And you being like, wow, somebody is really going to help me. And then them being like, so who do you know? Right, right,
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Right, right. And, and, and it, and it feels, yeah, it does. It feels, it can feel desperate and like the blind leading, and then that's actually pretty abelist. But the, the, the loss leading the lost, you know, so I, I just feel like that is not happening, but nothing it's interesting. It's like, none of this has led to any money or any offers of anything, but I still just keep going beans. I mean, like, that's all I can do is keep writing and keep honing
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That's right. That is all you can do. And that is in the same way that auditioning is the job of an actor. This is what you're doing right now is the job. I mean, writing plus this,
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And you're doing well
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Today on the podcast. We're speaking with NASA to con NASA is a delightful young actress who just graduated from school in New York city. And she tells us what her program was like. And she also tells us what it's like to graduate in a pandemic, as well as what it's like to be an international student. So please enjoy our conversation with NASA UConn. Congratulations, you survived theater school,
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Be the second person, but I can't remember who the first person was from the American academy of dramatic art. Is that a very old school? Has that been around for a really long time? It
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Has, it was opened up in the late 18 hundreds actually. And I think its original location was in Broadway. And then around the 1960s is when they moved to Midtown Manhattan around 30th street and Madison avenue, I think. And it's also a very old building. I remember classrooms. When you look at the ceiling, it's just very oriented, very intricate decorations. And you can see where chandelier's, might've hung.
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That's cool. But no chandelier is when you were taking one home.
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No, I mean the stairs though, I, there were a lot of stairs. It was kind of small, but very tall six floors. And you just have to walk up and down those stairs for all your classes. Oh man, no elevator. This is old school. There were some elevators, but they were tiny. One time I remember I needed to get in. Cause I had a suitcase for acting class and I can't bring that up the stairs. So I went in and maybe about four people can fit in this elevator, but seven others decided to shove themselves in there and we get stuck between the first and second floor.
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And I'm just panicking. I'm like, no, this is too small. Thankfully we got out quickly. So I don't know if you've listened
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At all to the podcast, but we, our range of knowledge is, you know, pretty heavily skewed towards the school that we went to. We've talked to people from other schools, but we always love to hear about the ways in which other programs are different. I'm assuming you did the basics, voice and speech and movement and acting. But is it anything like how, you know, at NYU you get assigned to a certain school, you do the experimental or you do that. So is it like that? Was it like that?
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Not really at our school, it was a pretty small school. I would teach school. I think my graduating class was 120, 130 students. And I remember my first year I went in and you know, I felt like all college is like, oh, they're gonna let me choose what classes I want. And I got to build my schedule, but they do that for you. And you know, first day they send out your schedules. You're a part of a section. I was in the largest group, 14 people like that was the largest I've been in. And you do all your classes together, acting voice and speech Alexander. And it was very tight knit, like acting class. I remember we started off with some Eisner techniques, you know, doing repetition work and then move on to doing it.
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As you're doing an activity like someone's coming to visit you and they need to tell you something and you're trying to get something done. That's urgent. Like, let's say you need a big cupcakes for your niece's birthday this afternoon. And you're not allowed to ask any questions. It's pure repetition, back and forth. And then we moved on to like some short scenes with each other then to group scenes in like the end of each semester as kind of a performance and rehearsal preparation.
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Wow. And so you got to do that's when you did your show.
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Second year I got to do two shows. The first one was major Barbara and the second one was comic relief.
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Comic relief is that I don't know about that. Yes.
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It's a very interesting one. It's taken in a futuristic world where acting profession is no longer done by humans, but by realistic robots that you can control everything for them. And they're used for all the soap operas, all like the stuff people are always watching.
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Oh my gosh, is that where we're headed?
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I want to have a job major Barbara. I remember
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Major Barbara. We did that at, at the end, our theater school. And I remember, yeah, Jen. Yeah. Shine
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Is tough, right? I mean, did you, did you like the play?
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It was interesting. My director definitely made it all the better. His name is George. Heselin adore him. I remember first day of rehearsals sits downstairs that he's like, if you haven't done the work, get out, do the work, come back. You have been here. You have trained. You should know how to do things by now, which I agree with. We have done the training. No one should be slacking. No one should be just sitting to the side of playing around while we're doing our graduation plays. Those were major. And he gave such good advice and he made sure for us, you are here, you are on the stage.
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It's your moment. Take it. You only got two lines. Make sure the audience doesn't forget it. Oh, so it's a two year program. Yes, it can be three, but in order to get into third year, you need to audition.
1
Okay. Okay. And you didn't want to do that or?
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I kind of, I had already gotten my associates and I needed a break. I had jumped from high school here in Jordan where it's externals a levels and all of these exams right into an acting academy. Right. I spent two years in blood, sweat and tears building up my acting and I just wanted a break. So I decided I'll just graduate, you know, take a semester off. And then I actually applied to hunter college where I'm at now doing the theater program. Oh, oh, I missed that. Okay. Great. At hunter. Oh, I hear great
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Things about that school. You like it?
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I'm loving it so far. I got to tour it before the pandemic hit literally a month before COVID hits. I got to tour it and it's beautiful. It's really beautiful. Where are you right
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Now? Are you in Jordan? Yes. I
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Came in the end of August is when I arrived to visit my family and I got out of self isolation mid September,
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But so, so you're doing Khan hunter completely. Yeah. Online
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At the moment. Yes. But come fall semester. We're back to hybrid. So half of classes are going to be online and in person and theater majors, a majority are in person.
1
Okay, cool. So we're now we're dying to know about Jordan. Tell us what's the theater scene. Like if there is one, is
2
There is I started theater here in high school because we have these things called IGC, a CS, which are exams that we get from Cambridge or at XL in England. And we take them. So I decided to take drama as it. And that's actually what got me to realize I wanted to be an actor. It was interesting. I got to do a multi-year play in junior year and I got to do or write actually, and perform an absurd play in my senior year. Which recommendations
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You wrote, you wrote the play that you then were in? Yes. Oh, wow. Brave. That's very cool. You said the
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Recommendation was not to do what? Not
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To write. It's hard writing one because absurd plays nothing makes sense. Right? Like you have married them made from the bald pre-Madonna Donald's little girl has one bread. I won what I, well, Elizabeth Little girl has won. What white I won. Red only difference is like they're switched and it's nothing makes sense and make it good. It's like
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Would be like gobbledygook. Mine would be garbled. Digger is what it would be called.
2
I do kind of wonder. I mean, I actually sort
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Of like absurd of stuff, but on the one hand, it's like, how do you even evaluate whether or not an absurdist play as good? I guess if it's absurd in the way that still somehow reminds you of your life, I
3
Think that's probably your best bet because, or else there's no way to judge it. Like Mary has one red eye, one blue eye that's I don't understand what's happening there.
2
Just three old women wearing their brawls outside of their clothes, talking about the best burgers in this Indian restaurant and how, oh, she's going to have such a lovely June wedding. It'll be spring weather and we can wear a winter coat. <inaudible> that was good. It's like turning. And I find my dead husband has hung himself and my friends are freaking out. They're like, what's going on? And I'm like, oh, he left me this letter, but I'm really upset and crying because he made a spelling mistake in his farewell letter. I love
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It. I love it. It's like
2
You did a great job. I tried, I tried, I was lucky to have my drama teacher and she had given me all the absurd plays she had, so I could study them and kind of bring it all together for inspiration
3
And for, you know, forgive my ignorance. But I'm assuming Jordan, there's like a whole, you have your own team. Like there's probably a, a Hollywood of Jordan. Is there like kind of
2
Thing here isn't as big as you would find, for example, in Turkey or in Egypt or Lebanon. But we do have our acting scenes. We actually have a television show here that was put on Netflix called gin. Oh, I heard about it. Yeah, it was here. It was all the students were from a school here called Becca Lauria excuse me. And we were men. There was meant to be another TV show, but then COVID hit and everything was on a stand still. But we have here the Royal film commission and that's where like, that's kind of the center of acting here.
1
Fancy. What does that mean? The Royal, like, are you saying that it's just one centralized place that's making films.
2
It's it's a, it's kind of the headquarters, I guess for filmmaking here, it's called the Royal film commission because Jordan is a monarchy. We have a king and a queen and the Royal family. So a lot of things here tend to go for that. And I think when a lot of people like come to film here, for example, when they filmed Aladdin or star wars, I think that that is where they went like first the Royal film commission to everything. Right.
3
To get the permits, do this, do that. Yeah. That sounds really cool. So you, did you, you started acting in high school when you were taking these tests, like to try to, okay. So not as a child, like, well, you're still young, but I mean, you were like a kid, like a five-year-old, but it was more like when you were reached high school years that you did, what did, what did you love about it? Why did you love it?
2
So my, my junior year when I did the multi-year play was really when it settled in for me, I was set as the first stage manager, my drama teacher to ever had. She just, yeah, I was really happy about that. And I just adored watching this play, come on stage, come to life. I loved being on stage, you know, just being in the character, being to deliver someone else's story and seeing the audience's reactions to it, or when we write a comedic part, cause we edited the play a little bit to fit today's audience. And I adored just hearing their laughter their gasps, just all of their reactions and being really into this thing.
1
Hmm. So tell us about the experience of going from, from that and, and, and the world of, of acting that you knew from high school to, to the college setting. Was it very different? Was it a version of the same thing who is
2
On a completely different spectrum? Completely different because here it was also an examination. So, you know, yes, you need to focus on like some acting techniques, but the main focus was on us getting our grades because it is important. A lot of colleges here and in Europe are going to look at these exams. So when I went to the U S you know, what I had known for acting is memorize your lines, pretend to be this character. And you're good. And I got, yeah, you don't even know how to breathe. You don't know what you're doing.
3
I think that's most of us that's most of us, I, I feel like the, the, the same exact, I, I feel like I knew a little bit, but it was like memorize your lines. You're good. And that's what a lot of people on the podcast say, they thought acting was,
2
I knew there was emotion, but I just thought, pretend it. And then you, you go to a college, like when I went to audit and they're just like, yeah, no, you are the character. You're not pretending to be her. You are her. I was like, oh, was that
1
Overwhelming to you? Did you like it? I mean, cause I, I w w I personally felt really frustrated at the beginning, like, cause I was one of these point and click type actors to just memorize your lines and stand in your place. Did it feel overwhelming to you? It
2
Did, especially at first, I just remember the teachers being like move in class, for example, the teachers just being like, do what you want, move around, make whatever sound you want. I'm in a country where it's very unit where it's very, like, keep to yourself, stay quiet. Like you represent your family. So you got to always be respectful. So going into that, I'm just like, but you didn't give me any directions. Like, what do you want me to do? And I remember so many breakdowns, so many breakdowns and seeing other people acting wondering, am I good enough? Like, look at the other, doing it. And I'm just here, like, what's going on?
1
Did you have a moment where it, it, it clicked for you
2
In my second year, I had this amazing teachers then on for acting and he, for my scene, my, I think it was my first scene of the year. He set me in Rosemary and with ginger and it's, it's a very short play. My scene was I think around 10, 15 minutes, the play itself, maybe half an hour. And it's about these two sisters, Rosemary and ginger. And you know, Ginger's married. She has two kids and Rosemary was married, but she became an alcoholic and her and her husband are separated divorcing.
2
And she's in a custody battle with her children. And it's an emotional roller coaster. Like I remember I was Rosemary and there was a part where I was just drunk and my sister was getting on my nerves. So I made up a story to make her think that I pushed my kids off a cliff. And I remember at first having such a hard time with this character, like, what am I? I've never been the type of person. I'm more of the fun loving, like, I'm, I'm the innocent, like high schooler. I'm go to like, you need advice. That's going like unicorns. That's like <inaudible> character type.
2
So to go to a mother, that's pretending she killed her kids and is just onstage drinking. I was lost. Yeah. And he was just there to encourage me. And I remember one day in a scene, I was just like, oh, this is kind of like my secondary, like breakthrough after bad Jews. I was just like, wait, I feel like character. I am the character. I'm not just pretending to live for life. I have. And I could just feel her. And after that, I've just felt every character I've played, just kind of stitch themselves into my, my, my own being my own identity and kind of have a part of each of them in me.
1
That's the best way. That's the best way just to bring the parts of the character that are, or just, yeah. The parts of the character that are like you and kind of, cause that's also what your unique take is on any given character. Yeah. So this is interesting to me that the idea that did you use the word proper and describing your co, you were saying that everybody needs to represent themselves, represent their FA your family. Does that mean it's very proper, like formal in Jordan
2
To a certain extent, for example, clothes you need to wear gotta be respectable and not too much skin, you know, the way you act around public, like, especially with the women. And especially if you go to the older parts of Jordan, it's, don't be so loud, be calm. And like, you gotta be respectable. Cause everyone knows your last name. And once they know your last name, they know your family. Like I can, I used to go up to my grandmother. If I had a crush on someone and be like, Hey, this is his last name. Tell me about his family. Okay. So you do want to bring disrespect to your parents. Do you want to show that you respect them and you've respected what they've taught you,
1
But you have to act like such a fool in acting school.
2
I mean,
1
That must've been a challenge.
2
It was, it really was. I remember first getting there, like I'm there sitting back straight shoulders back, which is really bad for you. I learned. And like, you know, I'm not to talk a lot, especially cause I've always been allowed and just in your face person when I talk, so I've kind of learned, I kind of had learned to them internalize that not to be as loud. And when I got there, my teacher's like make noise, like, come on. We're we're on our backs for babies, scoop gal roll down. And I'm just like, oh, what have, I don't want to make noise? And they're like force yourself. And I remember one day I had gone to bed, you know, my roommates across the room has been asleep.
2
I'm trying to fall asleep. And then suddenly I hear an exhale like ha and I pause. I'm like she's asleep. He could have done that. And then I realized it was me. My body was just like, yeah, we're releasing sound. You don't even got to think about it. We got you. I was
1
Like, whoa, cool. So it kind of sounds like you, it was, it was a relief to be able to access that side of you.
2
It was because I had internalized so much of it because, and I also don't want to disturb people, especially in society, not just Jordanian culture, but anywhere you are, you don't want to be allowed and disrupt other people with what they're doing. You don't want to annoy them. So I had always internalized most of that because, you know, I don't want to be a bother. Right. But then, and I always just like take as little space as possible. Like if I notice I'm talking too loud. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. I'll, I'll quiet my voice. And when I went to that school, like I remember Zen on my act, one of my acting teachers being like, yeah, when you go to bed, lay on your back and spread out, take the room is your space. And all of my teachers, like if I'm loud, they encouraged it.
2
They're like, yeah. Be loud, make noise. And I was just like, wow. Like I can really just let loose in the acting world. Right. Oh, that's so
3
Good to hear. I mean, that's, so it must've been freeing in some way. And how is it then to return back to Jordan and after all the freeing this,
2
Oh my gosh, the story for this. So I ha I've been here since August and for a few months I had to it's bad, but I did not do any acting exercises. Any of like the things I've learned at school, I just kind of went on a standstill and I felt bad. So when they, my younger sister comes up to me with her, something she needs to read for school and she reads better when she's hearing it. She came up to me and she's like, can you record yourself reading this? So I'm like, sure. And I started reading it, but then, you know, my throat tightens and I'm feeling tired and I'm like, wait, I can just do like some voice and speech exercises. So I'm doing them. And I have this one where it's just like, let your voice out on a vibrate that by family describes as calling.
2
Oh, lost. So <inaudible>, and then I hear them screaming and I run out and I'm like, what's wrong? And they're on the floor laughing. And they're like
3
Really SIG. And they're just laughing. They were calling all lost souls. I love that. I
1
Love that. That's gotta be the name of your podcast calling. So wait, so I'm getting the idea that maybe you're somewhat of a pioneer and your family, like you did. Nobody else has done this, gone into it. Nope. I'm
2
The first, my family is very like my older sister. She works at a software company that creates banking apps right now. And my younger sister is going into the business field. You know, my dad is in business. My uncle has like a PhD in two masters and my cousins are all in sciences. And then I'm just here. Like, I feel like a baby in the class today, Google, Google.
1
That's always rough to have to explain to your parents what they're spending their money on. And you're being a baby and doing yoga. They were, it sounds
3
Like they were, I mean, at least they'd let you go. I mean, so they were supportive in that way in terms of even letting you go so far away. Oh, my dad
2
Was so supportive when we'd like go out and he was with friends. He's like, yeah, my daughter, she's going to New York to be an actress. She got into like a really good school. And he even sent me at the time I needed to audition for school. He sent me to London during a school week. Just so I could I, how was your audition?
3
What did you do? Do you remember what you, the piece you did and how were you nervous and all that?
2
Oh my goodness. So I remember when I applied to the school, I wasn't originally going to apply. I saw like all the alumni, like Paul Rudd and Danny DeVito and Grace Kelly. And I was like, I'm not going to get in here, like skip. But then they sent me an application and I was like, oh, like, got to give this a try. And I went to London and my audition was in the prince of Wales. I think prince of Wales theater, the one that had the house, some more the book of Mormon. Oh, big deal. Yeah. And I'm sitting there and there are like 10 other people in the room and I'm just like, whew. Okay. It's all good. I'm like, everyone disappears upstairs then leaves.
2
And so I got upstairs and it was the cutest old man I had ever seen him just gritty. Obviously. It's so lovely to meet you. And he was so sweet. And then I performed for him a monologue, two monologues, one from a view from the bridge, a scan. The I'm not like when she's talking to her dolphin, she's like, I love Eddie. I want him to be happy, but I don't want to upset him. And I did for him marry the made from the bulk Pima, Donna. He absurd when we were talking about a little while ago and I just remember shaking a little while doing it. But then at the ball, premadonnas soon as I started, he started giggling and I was like, like we're getting there.
2
And I was like the nicest
3
Man in the world. He is, I
2
Loved him. And then I remember talking to him for a little bit. And then he's like, could you do a cold read for me? And I'm like, oh, like, sure. Then he just like, gives me a little monologue to do just like a quick cold read. And it doesn't always happen. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. And then two weeks later I got the news that I got in.
1
So that's also sort of unusual for us. Like the idea that, I mean, it's not that anybody was mean at our additions, but the feeling was very, you know, competitive and tough. And like you had to sort of be on your guard. Did you find that your teachers at that school were support equally supportive and caring? Very
2
Supportive, very caring. They, I never felt them being me and all I ever felt with them was I'm going to push you to be your best. And I remember my second for first year, my acting teacher, I was terrified of him at first because I had heard stories. He strict, like, you always got to like, listen. And if you like do something wrong, like he's going to be strict on you. And I was terrified, but I got there and he became my favorite. He was just, he was just, he was strict in our work. He was strict, but in a way that I felt that I wanted to make him proud. I wanted to, I didn't want to mess up.
2
Not because I was terrified of how he would scold me, but because I wanted him to see, I am taking in your teachings and I am using them because he was such an articulate teacher. And not just through words, but through movement. And at times if I felt lost, I knew I could go to him and he would tell me the truth of where I'm at, what I can do and once do something good. He will encourage you. It will be like, I loved that. Like you were energetic, you were doing great. I see you're working hard to keep at it. And it was great. Something that occurred
1
To me since we haven't really known each other. We've talked a couple of times, but it's not like we went to school together. Something that occurs to me about you is that you have such an openness and an honestness, which, which is the, are those are very good qualities for acting. Are you, are you being received the same way at hunter? Is it, are you having a equally positive experience? I know it's online. So my PRS,
2
I haven't started the acting classes yet. Any theater classes because ATA and hunter have kind of this program to transfer credits, but I ended up emailing the wrong advisor. So I wasn't able to get that done until now. So I can't quite talk about their theater department yet, but I've heard a lot of good things from other students. So
3
You'll go and get your undergrad. Will that be your, your BFA? Are you getting a BFA from hunter
2
At ATA? You just get your associates degree. That's the maximum you can go. I think, I don't know about when you enter third year, but at hunter, I'm going to be continuing for my bachelor's
1
<inaudible>. And what do you hope to do? Do you hope to stay in New York after graduation? Okay.
2
I hope to stay, try to get into the acting world. That's all of our dreams, you know, get into the acting world, be in some big hit movie or television show, gets your name, know, get it to as many things as possible, but I know it's a competitive place. And I hope after being able to go into acting and doing all of these things to teach it, teach it everyone at my school would, I would help my drama teacher teach her younger classes. I remember this one group she gave me, they were doing, he who says, I think it was Brett. And it's a diff it's a difficult play because let's say you have the three students.
2
It's a monotone is play you all, all three of you got to talk at the same time, same tone, same sentence. And that can be difficult for some students. Not everyone can perfectly memorize. And I remember her setting me up the group having the most trouble. And she was like, please, you take this group. And that other group is fine. Just check on them. I'll be with a third in the theater and working with them for an hour. And the pride I felt when I saw them get it the way they should, when I saw them excited to do it was amazing. And once I'm done with my time in the acting world, I would love to help others get into it. Love to help others learn about it and just experience it.
2
That's beautiful is everyone
3
Is so beautiful. Is everyone in your family so positive?
2
Like how did you get this attitude? I'm serious. You're
3
So like, you're so positive. Where do you think that comes
2
From? I think I definitely got it from my mother. She was a teacher too. And she was just the sweetest soul you would have ever met. She was always smiling. She was always so kind and generous and I want to live up to be that I want to live up to be just like she was
1
So you'll have to get a math. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. She passed away. Yes. When I was 15. Wow. That's rough. That's a young age to have to lose your mom.
2
It is what, I'm not too upset. She's I'm a firm believer in my religion. I follow Islam. So I firmly believe she's at peace. She is happy. She is with her family, with like her parents and her aunts and her grandmother. And she's just happy. That's all I could ask
1
For. That's what they say. They say, we're the ones. Have they feel sorry for us living on the living on earth. Right.
2
I heard that quote once I forgot where exactly. But it said pity, the living, not the dead because the dead are arresting, but we're the ones that have to deal with it after.
1
Yeah. In a way. So you'll have to get your master's degree then if you want to be a teacher or are you saying you want to teach at the college level or you want to teach younger kids?
2
Sure. Yet I was planning on getting my bachelor's with a minor in education. Kind of see how things go. And if I really feel that teaching is my passion, go back for my masters. Cause I'd love to teach high school level because I feel a lot of high schoolers. When they go into an acting college, they don't know what to expect. Right. Because high school doesn't really prepare you for the big acting world. And I'd love to give them that stepping stone that I didn't have to make that transition easier.
1
Yeah, that's true. There's a big divide between, I would say maybe like 80% and states and in any case maybe 90% of high school drama programs are just, it's like the English teacher or it's like somebody that they just said here, teach acting. And it's not that they don't know anything. It's just, but then we interviewed somebody who is an actor and he teaches the high school and also junior high level. And he, he takes a ver he takes a conservatory style approach to teaching his students. And many of them have gone on to, to be actors.
1
Whereas, you know, it probably wouldn't have been that way otherwise. So there's a lot to be said for your high school experience being, you know, informed by somebody who really knows what they're talking about. Totally. Yeah.
3
I think that, there's a, if I think that if, if kids want to go to a conservatory, I think it would behoove them. Also. I was thinking to visit conservatories and see what is going on there. Cause it's not like memorize your lines and stand there. And I think, I wish I had, I wish I had done a lot of things differently, but one of them was do more research, research, research on what? And with the internet it's possible to see like, oh, I would like this approach. Oh, I would like, cause when I showed up at NYU, oh my gosh to audition. And they said, what school do you want to be in? And I said your school.
2
And they said, oh no. <inaudible>
3
Program at NYU. And I said, the one they said, you know, we have all these different schools. And I literally said something stupid. Like the one that's the most fun. I don't know what. And they were like, you haven't researched our schools. Like the Atlantic, the, this, the roundabout. I'm like, Nope. Oh God. But
1
At the same time, I think that was a helpful experience for you because you learn like, I mean, that was not. And people of all the things, good things I hear about NYU, I don't hear anybody saying it was fun. Yeah. People saying it was really intense. It was really, and the way that you get kind of put into, I hate that idea by the way that you just get put into a box and then that's all you learn because very few people anymore. Do you meet who say, I'm just the method or I'm just miser. Like everybody does an eclectic thing and that's what you can get if you go to it.
3
Yeah. I love the fact that you found joy in acting in high school and it continued at your college, you know, at your, at your program that the joy wasn't definitely sucked out in any way of acting that they didn't, it sounds like it was fun.
2
And there were times where there was some joy sucking. I mean, it's a very intense program to go into acting because you're very raw. You're very, like I remember one day I was doing a play. I think it was playground injuries. I was doing a scene and it was a funeral post funeral scene. And I had my partner, you know, we were doing our acting and I'm like, I'm supposed to be in the weight room where like my dead father's in his casket. And then I remember my teacher pausing us and being like, okay, where is your father's casket? And I'm like, it's the fourth wall where the audience is. And she's like, okay, grab some blocks, sets them up, points at it.
2
This is your dead father goes back. And you know, with like my past history of family loss, it brought out a lot. And you know, days like that, I was just like, do I want to continue ripping myself emotionally like this? But then it also helps so much because I remember also in some classes you had to be barefoot, like voice and speech had to be barefoot, get to it. And I remember seeing grown men from the military, sobbing their hearts out over a poem about their voices. And it's something that I feel like you need to make sure you're in the right place emotionally to go through and you need to make sure you have a good support system.
2
Like my teachers I'm so thankful there was such great supports. You know, they never, if they felt I was, I didn't fully express everything in a scene. They're like, scream, go ahead, scream here, throw this, get your emotions out, relax yourself. You need to bring yourself out of this after the scene to make sure you take care of yourself. Wow. Yeah. Mental health.
3
Are they mostly teachers at that school working actors still or do or some of them? Yeah, I think that makes a big difference. I think that's a huge difference because as much as I enjoyed some of our teachers and a lot of our teachers, none of them, as far as I know, were like working professionals in the field, still of acting like actors on stage or actors in movies. And it helps to have people that are still working teaching. Yeah.
1
Yeah. A lot of work teachers
2
Were still in the field or had just recently retired from the field. Like I remember one of my acting teachers, the one I had before we went into our place, second year was David Dean betrayal. And he actually has a book on acting. And I remember biggest the guys say to get people to be like, well, it was, he was on a card. This is how I knew people would like get the like, oh, your school was made like, and he wasn't. Other than we're just in the point of, yeah, you just got to do this, get a move on. They were at a point where they were sharing their own personal experience to connect with us.
2
You know, they see us having a hard time. They'll talk about one of their times. They'll talk like I get what you're coming from. Like my guess is this is how you feel. And here are some ways you can work through this. Or if you need to talk, like come to me after class, we can set up time. We can like, you can vent to me. I'm here for you I feel like that's very important in an acting school. Cause a lot of us, as we said earlier, coming in with no idea what's going on. And if we do, we are very, very lucky to have an idea because a lot of us are at a disadvantage. A lot of us are coming from small towns or at a place where we were expected to become lawyers or corporate people. And we're suddenly here in acting, right.
3
Would you teach in Georgia? Would you go to state in New York city to teach? Do you think, or Jordan or where, or are you just like the world's my oyster I'll teach anywhere.
2
I've definitely debated mainly teaching in the us. It's it's a place I want to say it it's a place where I feel like I can do a lot because there's more opportunity. I mean, as I say us, the place of opportunities, the land of opportunity. So I'd love to go there. But one day I would enjoy coming here or at least going to England because that's where we do all of our exams from that's where we get it and kind of see what I can do there to make it better, to get these people to actually act. Cause I remember a lot of students in my class were just in it because it's supposed to be an ECA. Like our teacher just tells me walk here, there, I'm going to get the name done.
2
I'd love to change it in a way that's, you're passionate about this. Cause I was the only one who stayed my senior year. I was the only person. And even for my play, I had to recruit two non drama students in order to get it done. They all left. Everyone left. They all dropped. As soon as we finished grade, grade 11, our junior play, they were just like, yeah, we're dropping. And I was the only one who stayed.
1
Wow. That's a unique experience. So is hunter to your knowledge going to spend any time sort of talking to you about what your post college career situation is going to be? Because one of the things that we talk about a lot on here is just all of us feeling like you didn't learn some of the most important parts about making a living as an actor until you were just forced trial by fire to do it after you graduated. So do you have a sense of what Hunter's approach is to that?
2
I'm not quite sure. I know my advisor. She's pretty good with keeping contact with me and being like, Hey, like, this is what's going on. This is what you need to do. But I'm personally not too worried. Cause they prepared at oughta. They told me like, this is what today's acting world is like they would give us mock auditions with stage met with like not stage managers, agencies and stuff like that. And I remember they they're the ones that are like, these are headshots. This is what she needs to do. We're going to like set up flyers, set up a fair. So you can find someone to get your head shots, be warned. These are the prices. If you change your haircut, like I've got bangs. Since my last head shots were taken, my head shops are now null and void.
2
I need to get new ones because they need to know what to expect. And you know, they helped us set up actor's access accounts, like how to build it up, help us with a resume. And we had career plan classes where they like taught us what your careers and actors going to be like, you know, they would tell us their own stories. And it was, it was really well preparing us. I like literally want to go to this school as a 45 year old just to just,
3
Just to get the experience. It's sort of like a corrective experience of like what it would be like to learn a lot. And it's only two years, right? Yeah. And you can
2
Go in at any age. I remember one of my cast mates in my, in my graduation place, she was 50 and nominal. Like I could do it for two years. Why not? And there were two campuses though. There's a New York campus and an LA campus. And I know each one does things a little differently.
1
Okay. Well she's in LA I'm in New York. We could, we can make something. So one of the major things that we didn't feel like we understood until many, many years after is, you know, marketing ourselves, like figuring out what our essence is, what sticking of ourselves, even though this is such a crude term, thinking of ourselves as a product that we have to try to sell. Do you have any sense of that for your own self? And like, what's going to separate you from the rest.
2
We were helped with that. We were, I remember our teachers were helping us figure out what is your cast type? Like when a person looks at you, what are they gonna cast your role as? And I remember we actually had an exercise in class, a homework where we have three papers that we had to give it out to people and they like kind of circle what they see us as. Wow. And the thing I got with most was girl, next door, you know, the sweet girl, a high schooler, the one that like is going to be baking cupcakes for you all. And it's just going to be hyper and like, hi everybody. Like let's all love each other. Let's like have a good time. We're all happy
1
Captain unicorn.
3
Maybe I should make, maybe
2
I should change that to my acting. Actor's name, captain unicorn, unicorn and roses.
3
So did you, did you agree with that? Did you feel like, yes, that is me. I can embrace this. This is my essence kind of a thing. Or how do you feel about that?
2
At first? I didn't, because at first I was like, I want the serious roles. I want to be taken seriously, which I feel all of us wanted because you know, you just hear these people being, wow, this like actor was in this serious movie, like any movie with Leonardo DiCaprio or just like, wow, it's such a serious movie. NIDA's great. Look at this phenomenal. And that's what I need to get into. But after time and seeing different forms of acting, I'm just like, no, like all acting is hard. And in my opinion, comedy is the hardest. Like if you're on a pedestal, in my opinion. So after some time and some, you know, going through the school and hearing the stories and doing it myself at school, I just realized that no, like this is something I can do easily.
2
And you know, plan is get my foot in the door first, then try to kind of expand kind of like, oh, what was his name? Comedy actor. Jim Carey Carey. Thank you, Jim Carey. How long has he done comedy? And he's just recently been in a drama film, put himself there for he's so good, but never something he would have been able to achieve 10 years ago. They would not have let him because comedy is your type. But once he got in there, yeah,
3
I think that that's a patience game, a long game, looking at this career as a long game. This is a long game and I never knew that. And so I think if there's a way to tell like young people in the end, you're like you feel, which is look, get your foot in the door and make some dough to pay your rent and then, and embrace what people see you as just totally embrace it. Don't fight against it if you fight against and then, and then, and then get some power and create your own situation. But like, I think, I think as, as, as sort of harsh, as it is to hand someone, a piece of paper and say, see how you see me.
3
Right. See it's, it's helpful because I, what I was doing was fighting against what people saw me as. It does not help you in this, in this commercial industry, in the film and TV and commercial world theater, maybe another story. But like, I feel like you feel like they did a good job at your school of combining the sort of theater actor and then how to make a living actor. Like they, they sh okay, that's great.
2
We may need, we were mainly trained in theater because one thing they taught us is it's very easy going from theater to film, but it's very difficult going from film to theater because in theater, you've got a project you're kind of using your body as an instrument and you're pushing it all the more while in film it's, you've got a mic stepped up to you. You can do this take multiple times. So it's okay if you mess up. And we had our, we had our camera times, you know, we had, what was the name of the class camera technique, where we would do self-tapes. They taught us how to self-tape and we would do like mid, like a one minute short movie where it's just like a quick scene of something going on.
2
And it was very helpful on kind of getting to know both worlds. And they told us like, while you're trying to get in, they taught us union non-union they taught us like, make sure you like, have a job on the side because you're, you're not getting money and acting, unless you're in something like friends or Harry Potter, you know, those, you keep on getting money, but other stuff, not as much. Right. So it's good to always have like that job and like backup money in case what you're doing right now. Isn't working out for a while. Yeah. I didn't
3
Feel prepared. I was like, I thought, I don't know what I thought. I just thought, okay, it's going to be fine. And there's here we go. It, it was not fine. And I learned from it, but it was, yeah, it sounds like you got, I mean, all this to say you got such a well-rounded education and I'm hoping that that hunter continues that
1
Yeah. Like talking to, so the difference, I'm going to say the major difference between sort of the generation that we came up with versus the generation now is I, I felt like with us, it was sort of, well, just roll the dice and just see the, a lot of odd says, you know, one of you is gonna win one time versus versus yeah, it there's, this there's this element of randomness to it. So you can't control everything, but the things that you can control, that's what you should be focused on.
1
Like, you know, how you use your, you know, make the best out of your instrument and how you make the best out of advertising yourself. That seems to be the main difference.
3
Go boldly in the direction of embracing who you are as a performer, like go boldly in that direction. You're the crazy neighbor, like just doing great. Do, be that CRE I wish someone had said, that's what you're going to be like the wacky crazy two liner neighbor. And I know you don't, you may not want to hear that, but that's your jam for a while. And I
2
Would be like, oh, maybe I
3
Can make, make, maybe I can make peace with that. And then really hone it and then be the best damn wacky neighbor and book every single wacky neighbor role as, until I can be like Jim Carrey and then do something else. But I, yeah, it's just a different way of looking at it. It's just a different way of looking at
2
It. It is if it's rough, because I feel like it's not just accepting you as what character you can be, but it also really helps you accepting you as yourself. Because I remember complaining to my friends. I look younger than I am. I remember coming back here at the airport, they thought I was 14 and I'm 21. So I know I'm going to be cast as someone younger for a really long time. And that was always difficult for me to accept because it just shows to me in real life too. No, one's going to take me seriously. Everyone's going to view me as this like cute little thing and that's it. But once you accept your typecast, I feel like it just brings a whole new level of accepting yourself to and loving yourself because wow, me looking and like acting younger is really going to get me like money one day in the industry.
2
Like I'm fine with it now. Absolutely. And also
1
Now, because something that people don't necessarily know is when they're casting for a late teenager high school age, they would, if they, if they have a trace between an actual 14 year old and a 18 or 19 or 25 year old, that looks 14, they're going to go away because there's no limits about the, how, how many hours you can work in a day and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah. Can I change
2
As much? I mean, look at stranger things, phenomenal show, show adore all of the actors, but the writers and you know, everyone doing the show is going to have a bit of a rough time, especially with COVID pause because they're growing, you know, the difference between season two and season three. I know he just crazy. Imagine what it's like with a whole year pause due to COVID and that's going to be rough on them. But when you're using older people, like I'm going to look the same for a couple of years. And that out of me, if I, if I, if I get some more wrinkles, they can just like, do some makeup or some like special effects trick to make that all disappear. Yes.
1
It's casting director for stranger things. If you are
2
Listening to this, it's available
3
Cuba. It's Carmen Cuba. She'd be great. You'd be great. I just, yeah. And I think that if I had, I went to war with myself when I graduated theater school and I went to war with the industry for getting angry that they were seeing me in a certain way, instead of just saying, right. Acceptance, acceptance really is the answer to so many things. And if you can't accept, if I couldn't accept it, I needed to do something else, which is what I did. And now I'm back because I've accepted. So it's interesting. It's just such an interesting thing. Are you, what about like agents and representation?
3
Are you waiting till you grow? Like till this COVID thing is over to try to get agents
2
Or how I it's been on my mind a lot ever since I came back here, cause I came back here hoping like I wouldn't be here too long. I'll be back for like spring semester. And then airports were shut down. We had like a week long, like pure locked down and like a lockdown every Friday, 7:00 PM curfews. And it was rough and it was rough seeing like everyone, I graduated with getting commercials, getting agencies, getting booked. And I'm hoping when I get back, kind of see how everything is. I kind of test the a little, see, am I ready to look for an agent now while I'm at school? Or do I want to take that time finished school finished like perfecting myself as much as I can and then going into it.
2
Yeah.
1
Not at the risk of giving advice that I shouldn't give. I would just say like your instinct to stick with forming yourself and learning yours and pushing the agent thing till after I think that's a good instinct because you ultimately, you really not bringing anything to the table until you've done all that work. I mean, not, not like you have to be fully fleshed out before you start working. Just like any bit more along that path, you can be you're, you're better off.
2
I hope so. You're ancient all the more, they know better how to market you basically how to like go to these casting directors or to these castings and be like, yeah, like she is perfect for this role. This is so she would be great for
3
This specificity. I love the idea of getting super specific things instead of this. Cause I had this general vague sense of like, oh, this is who I
2
Am. It was not good.
3
Is like the key, I think to a lot of happiness as well. Agreed, agreed.
1
So we're going to have to wrap up here, but if there was any thing else you wanted to talk to us about any story you've told us some great stories. If there's any other anecdotes you want to get in, now's the time.
2
Let me think. Oh wait, now you're pulling me up as fine. You can also, you can say I'm good. I have a funny story of when I was ushering at my school for a play. So I personally wasn't in the theater. I was out working, but during the break, one of my coworkers comes to me and just sits exasperated on the chair and I'm like, Hey, what's wrong? And she looks at me and she's like, so up in like this mm theater where it's like a circular theater. So if you get off your chair, you're onstage, there was this one woman passed out, like at the other end, from where the exit is passed out sleeping.
2
And she has so many bags on her and like shopping bags and like plastic bags and stuff. And then she just suddenly wakes up, gets up, walks on stage is they're asking. And it's like a kitchen set up. And she walks through that kitchen into backstage, goes back out and it's just standing in the middle of the stage is her real life. And not to mention you find people, like I once found someone with a whole cereal box and the audience eating during a bar. And then like during break, like during intermission, I was just like, I'm sorry.
2
Yeah, you have that.
1
People feel like they're at, I mean, you know, increasingly with entertainment being so available constantly, people just feel like they're at home when they're in any given situation. And they start to treat, I mean, people taking off their shoes, that's gross. I mean, keep your shoes on, eat your cereal at your house. Watch the show. You have to
3
Sleep, sleep, do it quietly. But don't like, don't like, yeah, don't bring your home into, into our theater please. Interesting
1
Stories. So that's true. That's true. Where would we be without them? Well, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much. I appreciate your, I appreciate your energy. I appreciate your perspective and I will be watching you well, loving to see where you, where you go. Thank
2
You so much for having me here today. Of course,
0
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable Inc production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez and Gina Polizzi are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina <inaudible> for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.