WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.520 Music. 00:00:09.515 --> 00:00:14.376 I'm Pastor Luke. And I am Pastor Peter. And this is the Uncut Podcast, where we have, 00:00:15.294 --> 00:00:24.965 uncut, honest conversations about faith, life, and ministry. Today we are back in the office 00:00:25.242 --> 00:00:31.045 after having kind of been out of the office for part of the week last week. We were traveling. 00:00:31.045 --> 00:00:37.085 We weren't not in the state of New York. We were in the grand city of Chicago. 00:00:38.970 --> 00:00:43.965 Which was fun for me because I spent some time spent a couple years in Chicago, but we were, 00:00:44.485 --> 00:00:47.865 There to go to a leadership, 00:00:48.965 --> 00:00:57.525 Conference, that's it. Yeah leadership conference They call the summit but yeah, it makes it sound like a fancy word for a conference. Yeah 00:00:57.525 --> 00:00:58.415 Yeah. 00:00:58.901 --> 00:01:08.408 But Global Leadership Summit, which is a conference put on by the Global Leadership Network. 00:01:08.845 --> 00:01:12.765 How many years have you been watching or participating on it? 00:01:12.765 --> 00:01:18.885 It's something we've done every year since I've been here on staff. 00:01:18.885 --> 00:01:23.937 We've done it here every year that I've been on staff here. 00:01:25.025 --> 00:01:29.485 So that would be eight years. Okay, so for eight years in some form, 00:01:29.485 --> 00:01:32.759 we've been watching like online. Eight or nine years, yeah. 00:01:33.005 --> 00:01:37.745 So is this the first time you had gone in person? This was the first time that I had actually gone in person. 00:01:37.745 --> 00:01:42.745 Usually, or for the first number of years that I had gone, 00:01:42.885 --> 00:01:48.999 including the first year that you went with us, we joined another church, local church Hillcrest, 00:01:49.305 --> 00:01:54.202 to watch the simulcast there at that location. 00:01:54.319 --> 00:02:00.505 And then I think maybe the last, well, not the last two years, 00:02:00.505 --> 00:02:05.032 but last year you guys watched it here while I was on sabbatical. 00:02:06.328 --> 00:02:11.496 And then I wanna say the year before that, the year before you came, 00:02:11.739 --> 00:02:13.705 we actually watched it here as well. 00:02:13.705 --> 00:02:21.825 We didn't go to Hillcrest, so we watched it here. Yeah, I've kind of like, I think I've watched it online 00:02:21.825 --> 00:02:26.425 or either after the fact, a couple of times. 00:02:26.425 --> 00:02:31.465 But you never went when you lived in Chicago? No, even though I was like a half hour away 00:02:31.465 --> 00:02:33.182 from the actual conference. 00:02:35.785 --> 00:02:41.896 I think I just ended up watching it online in Chicago. It was cheaper that way, 00:02:43.065 --> 00:02:45.677 even though I didn't have any travel costs. 00:02:47.451 --> 00:02:54.319 But yeah, so I'd watch it online And maybe a couple times, but it's... 00:02:54.465 --> 00:02:56.545 Well, you know, I take that back. There might have been two years, 00:02:56.545 --> 00:03:02.394 there were definitely two years where we did a church leadership conference out in California. 00:03:02.785 --> 00:03:08.768 Oh, yeah. We went to Catalyst. Did that instead? I think we did that instead for two years. Yeah. Yeah. 00:03:10.893 --> 00:03:15.223 But they don't do that conference anymore. They don't do that. I don't think so. I I was, 00:03:16.403 --> 00:03:20.203 Catalyst, was that the same people who were doing exponential? 00:03:22.235 --> 00:03:29.463 I don't know it catalyst I can't i'm not completely sure but I think catalyst came out of, 00:03:30.734 --> 00:03:37.303 Or maybe i'm wrong there Like I said, I want I know that north point community church and andy stanley was 00:03:37.692 --> 00:03:42.183 a significant like player in Catalyst. 00:03:42.183 --> 00:03:50.903 But they did a Catalyst East in Georgia at his church, and they did a Catalyst West in Orange County, California 00:03:50.903 --> 00:03:52.051 at Mariner's Church. 00:03:55.103 --> 00:04:01.368 But I don't think they do it anymore. I don't even know if, I think I remember looking, 00:04:01.663 --> 00:04:04.743 trying to look up and see when the next Catalyst conference was, and it was like 00:04:04.743 --> 00:04:08.111 you couldn't find any information about it at all. Because it was like. 00:04:08.503 --> 00:04:10.443 Maybe like the domains expired and everything. 00:04:11.263 --> 00:04:14.755 Yeah, but I gotta imagine if there was a conference that they would have a domain. 00:04:15.183 --> 00:04:16.294 Yeah. It was pretty big. 00:04:16.843 --> 00:04:21.263 It was a pretty big conference. Right, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. 00:04:21.263 --> 00:04:24.343 Yeah, so anyways. Yeah, so this was the first year that we went. 00:04:24.343 --> 00:04:25.845 Yeah. At least that I went. 00:04:27.543 --> 00:04:37.283 And the experience of sitting through something live was much better than sitting through something simulcast, 00:04:37.363 --> 00:04:41.083 even though Hillcrest has always done a great job hosting us. Totally. 00:04:41.653 --> 00:04:44.597 But yeah, just the, you know, the energy. 00:04:46.245 --> 00:04:51.830 Both the energy in the room and like my own personal energy to like sit through all those sessions, 00:04:52.530 --> 00:04:55.184 Mm-hmm was much higher. Yeah, then, 00:04:56.190 --> 00:05:01.050 simulcasting it so I thought it was a good experience and I It's kind of I think we all talked as a staff team, 00:05:01.999 --> 00:05:03.169 towards the end about, 00:05:04.699 --> 00:05:12.570 like What are we committing to never watching a simulcast conference again because the in-person experience was so much better 00:05:12.570 --> 00:05:16.910 Well, it there was just like such a big shift from like. 00:05:18.770 --> 00:05:23.890 We're not in town and so people know we're not in town and then people can't get a hold of us, 00:05:24.738 --> 00:05:29.630 To ask us to do things or delay it, you know, so there's a little bit it was a little bit easier 00:05:29.630 --> 00:05:32.345 I think to get some separation from the, 00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:41.470 Stuff that's happening here around, you know around town or even just at home because we were just like okay done for the day at the conference 00:05:41.470 --> 00:05:48.684 Let's go get something to eat and hang out the hotel room. We're not going home and doing chores or anything like that 00:05:48.747 --> 00:05:50.692 So there was even just a little bit more, 00:05:51.133 --> 00:05:56.876 Mental separation to kind of be more fully present with ideas. Yeah. Yeah, 00:05:57.390 --> 00:06:01.130 I think the only thing that could have probably made the conference better for me is if my wife, 00:06:02.089 --> 00:06:08.430 Yeah, I could have been there because you know, you feel bad being Away for you know, four days three nights 00:06:08.430 --> 00:06:12.510 nights. Yeah. I felt very lucky. My wife was able to join us. 00:06:12.510 --> 00:06:16.830 That was a big highlight because she loves that types of stuff, type of stuff. 00:06:17.113 --> 00:06:25.252 And so when our two worlds got to kind of meet like that in this kind of leadership context, it was really fun for us. Yeah. So. 00:06:26.827 --> 00:06:35.310 Um, so yeah, it was a really, I think, you know, I, it was my favorite, uh, favorite conference, I guess I've been to, 00:06:35.310 --> 00:06:38.089 if I had to pick one, probably would be it. 00:06:38.390 --> 00:06:38.809 Yeah. 00:06:40.070 --> 00:06:45.696 But we sat through, how many speakers was that? I wanna see like, I wanna see Surtr's like... 00:06:46.857 --> 00:06:55.947 Three two Five two more seven a day. Yeah, 14 speakers 14 speakers may be 14 to 16 speakers. That's a lot 00:06:55.947 --> 00:07:03.827 It's a lot And I even felt bad for some of them because it seemed like some of them were just getting going and they were like 00:07:04.114 --> 00:07:06.107 Oh, my time is up. We'll see you. So they had a really short, 00:07:06.747 --> 00:07:09.066 Someone had a really short window. Yeah. Yeah. 00:07:10.902 --> 00:07:16.447 Well, because like, at any, like, the thing too is that almost, almost any of those speakers 00:07:16.447 --> 00:07:22.227 could have been keynote speakers at another conference, like a singular keynote. 00:07:22.227 --> 00:07:23.460 They probably have been. 00:07:23.550 --> 00:07:28.307 Right. And so like, they're used to giving, you know, coming to a conference and they're the highlight 00:07:28.307 --> 00:07:32.976 talk, and they've got like, maybe two or three highlight talks that they maybe get to give 00:07:33.039 --> 00:07:34.893 inside of a day or two days. 00:07:35.685 --> 00:07:41.027 But when each and every single speaker is at that level, you know, like... 00:07:41.546 --> 00:07:50.161 Yeah, I think they do a good job at making... of not promoting one person as the keynote. 00:07:50.987 --> 00:07:55.112 No one's the big draw. No. Although there kind of is. There kind of is. 00:07:55.347 --> 00:07:58.443 There kind of is. Well, and maybe it depends on who you are. 00:07:59.064 --> 00:08:01.587 Right. Right. What kind of environment you're in. 00:08:02.323 --> 00:08:07.562 Yeah. One of the names I was more familiar with was James Clear, 00:08:08.427 --> 00:08:10.659 author of Atomic Habits, who was there. 00:08:12.467 --> 00:08:19.067 So if you're really into his stuff and you've listened to that, you would be really, 00:08:19.067 --> 00:08:24.427 he could end up being the draw for you. But if you're not as familiar with some of the other names. 00:08:25.947 --> 00:08:31.373 Yeah, I mean, if you're in the church world, and names like Craig Rochelle. 00:08:33.687 --> 00:08:39.617 Pretty much one of the biggest names, right? Well, I feel like we end up talking about him a lot on this podcast. 00:08:39.617 --> 00:08:45.377 We do, yep. Because we listen to his podcast and interact with a lot of his content. 00:08:45.377 --> 00:08:48.737 Yep, and we stay in the same hotel as he stays in when we go to the conference. 00:08:48.737 --> 00:08:52.417 Unintentionally, but... Unintentionally. 00:08:54.737 --> 00:08:59.297 But others would be like Albert Tate, who's a pastor in California, but I saw that he's also 00:08:59.297 --> 00:09:00.793 a teaching pastor at Willow Creek. 00:09:01.036 --> 00:09:03.017 Oh, he is? Yeah. Okay. 00:09:03.322 --> 00:09:12.883 So Albert Tate, Patrick Lencioni, who's a Catholic, but we love him still. 00:09:14.257 --> 00:09:21.497 Who else? Well, there's... I mean, like, that's just like the ones that you normally see at church conferences. 00:09:21.497 --> 00:09:22.497 Church conferences, yeah. 00:09:22.758 --> 00:09:26.683 But there were also other big names. There were some other big names. Condoleezza Rice. 00:09:27.385 --> 00:09:30.977 Yep. She was a big name. She was a big name in the world. 00:09:31.697 --> 00:09:40.340 They had her videoed in, there was the, oh am I gonna be bad and forget his name, I'm 00:09:40.537 --> 00:09:42.977 blanking on it right now, The Chosen, the director. 00:09:42.977 --> 00:09:49.297 Dallas Jenkins. Dallas Jenkins of The Chosen, they had a video interview with him, which was really fascinating. 00:09:49.297 --> 00:09:53.150 Erwin McManus. Erwin McManus. famous church guy. Um... 00:09:54.500 --> 00:10:00.130 Ryan leak who stood out as one of my favorites from the from the conference. 00:10:02.170 --> 00:10:13.190 We should have got the notebook with us so that we could name Specifically some of the other ones but well, there was a lady last name was color doctor professor. Dr. Elber's, 00:10:14.330 --> 00:10:19.130 Harvard Enjoyed her talk did a fantastic job talking about, 00:10:20.328 --> 00:10:23.280 just like essentially pursuing. 00:10:25.549 --> 00:10:38.530 Not like Never being complacent in the like intensity of your leadership Striving for excellence. Yeah, and how that can change and turn around and change organizations, 00:10:40.394 --> 00:10:45.970 What would so that's kind of like a flyby and if you are interested if you're listening and or watching and you're interested in leadership 00:10:46.130 --> 00:10:49.970 content, you know, I would really encourage you both on your social media and 00:10:49.970 --> 00:10:53.610 and you can go to the website and sign up for their mailing list 00:10:53.610 --> 00:10:56.330 and just kind of consume as much material as they have. 00:10:56.330 --> 00:10:58.910 The Global Leadership Network. 00:11:00.550 --> 00:11:10.850 And highly, highly, highly recommend them as a group. They're not even specifically oriented 00:11:10.850 --> 00:11:13.369 towards church leaders, although many of them are. 00:11:14.090 --> 00:11:18.130 Church leaders. And they have a very much Christian worldview that orients them a little bit, 00:11:18.130 --> 00:11:23.479 but they are very much just trying to get good leadership content into people's hands. 00:11:25.513 --> 00:11:34.560 Right, so what would you, after reflecting, you know, here we are, almost a week since we've been back. Yep, yep. 00:11:34.930 --> 00:11:40.844 What would be some of the biggest takeaways for you on the week? 00:11:41.978 --> 00:11:43.970 You know, like, uh... 00:11:46.281 --> 00:11:55.651 I think the one, I think there's two that come to mind. The first one that comes to mind is, and this, it's funny because it came out in a couple 00:11:55.651 --> 00:12:02.771 of the different speakers and their talks, but I think James Clear said it the best, 00:12:02.771 --> 00:12:07.651 which is interesting because as much as I really liked James Clear's talk, I knew most 00:12:07.651 --> 00:12:09.451 of it because I'd read his book. 00:12:09.804 --> 00:12:12.784 It's a fantastic book, Atomic Habits. 00:12:13.411 --> 00:12:17.771 But he has a concept in there. I'm not gonna get this exactly right, but he talks about the, 00:12:18.651 --> 00:12:20.651 accumulative effect of the 1%, 00:12:21.957 --> 00:12:31.851 All right. I I Love new things like as just like a individual I love like new ideas new concepts starting new things new technology, 00:12:32.531 --> 00:12:39.881 and I love finding like solutions for things and so that kind of leads me to be disposed, 00:12:40.491 --> 00:12:43.691 towards finding silver bullets at times and 00:12:44.013 --> 00:12:48.731 And it's something I know about myself that like sometimes you just got to sit down and you got to grind a little bit. 00:12:50.621 --> 00:12:56.171 But he's kind of this idea of the cumulative effect of the 1% of saying what is, 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:03.566 What are I was kind of as I've been thinking about it my own life. I've been asking the question of what are the leaky faucets in. 00:13:04.571 --> 00:13:10.431 My life my personal life my professional life spiritual life that are just these small little things 00:13:10.431 --> 00:13:16.952 things that if I were to take care of them, it would increase like my effectiveness by 00:13:17.051 --> 00:13:19.842 even 5%. 00:13:20.811 --> 00:13:27.171 You know, that's kind of like when you've got like that to do list of things that's 00:13:27.171 --> 00:13:31.091 like, well, you've got like, because we've all got to do lists and we got those things 00:13:31.091 --> 00:13:35.571 on that to do list that kind of just sit on the back burner because they never are urgent 00:13:35.571 --> 00:13:37.387 enough for us to take care of. 00:13:37.486 --> 00:13:42.231 But they're always like taking up brain space, taking up like emotional space. 00:13:42.357 --> 00:13:45.871 What if we were to just like tackle that, you know? 00:13:46.871 --> 00:13:53.825 He gave the example from, do you remember the cycling team? Was it the British cycling team? 00:13:54.465 --> 00:13:58.271 Or was it the French cycling team? It was one of the European cycling teams 00:13:58.408 --> 00:14:01.054 that participates in the Tour de France. 00:14:01.198 --> 00:14:05.211 And they were not winning at all. They weren't doing very well. 00:14:05.211 --> 00:14:06.798 They're very mediocre. 00:14:06.987 --> 00:14:17.051 And they decided to do a bunch of really small things as a team in order to build a cumulative effect that 00:14:17.051 --> 00:14:21.451 they kind of attribute to their winning streak that they've been having. 00:14:21.451 --> 00:14:30.483 Things like figuring out which pillow the racers slept best with and then always having that pillow with them when they traveled. 00:14:30.555 --> 00:14:33.778 Or the truck that they transported the... 00:14:35.146 --> 00:14:40.136 Bicycles in painting the inside of it white so that they could make sure the trailer was, 00:14:40.592 --> 00:14:46.536 Spick spot clean, you know No dirt so that there was no dirt that would get in the gears and slow the performance of the bike 00:14:46.633 --> 00:14:49.156 Like those really really small things, 00:14:50.018 --> 00:14:55.266 and you're like, how would that have like that seems like so much overkill to you know to, 00:14:56.274 --> 00:15:01.176 Get so specific on something like that, but the cumulative effect of it over time 00:15:01.586 --> 00:15:04.367 So that's a big one for me that's kind of sitting with me. 00:15:04.816 --> 00:15:12.376 Right, right. And that is, like we can recognize that in, like the way I like to think about that, 00:15:12.577 --> 00:15:17.655 and I know I've used this analogy or this example in my preaching before is. 00:15:18.936 --> 00:15:25.126 We say this the same about the cumulative effect of small sin, which we think is, 00:15:25.376 --> 00:15:26.441 well, it's not that big a deal. 00:15:27.216 --> 00:15:32.236 It's just, it's tiny, right? so I'm not gonna really stress over it too much 00:15:32.236 --> 00:15:37.236 or work to have the Lord release me or free me from that, 00:15:37.796 --> 00:15:42.536 or give me victory over that because it's just a little small thing. 00:15:42.536 --> 00:15:52.376 When we get one degree, just one degree off kilter or off center, and you travel with that one degree 00:15:52.376 --> 00:15:56.058 long enough, when you get to the proverbial destination, 00:15:56.256 --> 00:16:00.749 you are 90 degrees off course, right? 00:16:01.416 --> 00:16:06.176 You're very far off course. Right, like the standard illustration is like what, 00:16:06.176 --> 00:16:10.816 from New York, traveling to California, 00:16:10.816 --> 00:16:14.836 Seattle or something like that, and you're off by like so many degrees, 00:16:14.836 --> 00:16:19.256 you'll end up in Los Angeles, which is very far apart. 00:16:19.256 --> 00:16:22.435 Yes, very far apart. So the opposite is also true. 00:16:23.176 --> 00:16:33.816 When you stack little degrees of habits or practices or fixing this leaky faucet or fixing 00:16:33.816 --> 00:16:37.397 that leaky faucet, eventually you have all your water pressure back. 00:16:37.613 --> 00:16:46.219 Oh yeah, that's a really good example. I actually missed the first part of James' talk because I had gotten a phone call, but 00:16:46.291 --> 00:16:50.456 I missed the story about the cycling team. 00:16:50.456 --> 00:17:00.361 I never heard it, but yeah, I think that there was some... 00:17:02.945 --> 00:17:10.555 Some of the same, I don't know, sentiment or like leadership culture-ish stuff was in. 00:17:13.595 --> 00:17:17.915 Anita, I think it's Anita, her name, Harvard, Dr., Professor Dr. Elbers, 00:17:20.689 --> 00:17:28.635 when she told the story about the F1 racing team she was studying. Yeah, the Mercedes. 00:17:28.635 --> 00:17:31.995 The Mercedes. The Mercedes racing team. Formula 1 racing. 00:17:31.995 --> 00:17:37.875 Yeah, and how they had similar to the cycling team had was poor performance, 00:17:38.675 --> 00:17:41.035 They hired a new manager, 00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:46.555 And he really turned around the racing team now. They're one of the most successful and, 00:17:47.209 --> 00:17:49.395 Like what were the things that he did? 00:17:50.495 --> 00:17:58.115 And There were all kinds of things that he did that were seemingly periphery to actual racing, 00:18:00.182 --> 00:17:58.246 Yeah. 00:18:01.271 --> 00:18:06.015 One of the major examples that she gave was that at the racing headquarters, 00:18:07.266 --> 00:18:10.003 he hired a custodian yeah, 00:18:12.001 --> 00:18:18.591 And on the day that he hired the custodian he took them. He took the custodian into the bathroom. Yeah, and, 00:18:19.923 --> 00:18:26.715 he spent I I don't like this is hard for me to even fathom. Whether this is a hyperbole or or not, 00:18:28.315 --> 00:18:33.481 Supposedly He spent eight hours with the custodian, 00:18:34.035 --> 00:18:41.075 Showing him how he expected the bathroom to look how he wanted the bathroom to be cleaned, 00:18:43.411 --> 00:18:49.395 And like trained him on like some one person goes into the bathroom you go back in after them and you clean up 00:18:49.577 --> 00:18:56.795 Immediately after that. Yes, I make sure it's perfect all the time. Yeah. Yeah, and so it did a few things one it, 00:18:57.949 --> 00:19:03.195 Showed it made the employee the custodian Miguel. I think it's his name was yeah 00:19:03.195 --> 00:19:11.415 I think it it told Miguel how important his job was Yeah, like he that the manager, 00:19:12.398 --> 00:19:18.355 Like built up the importance of a job that a lot of people would think is a menial job 00:19:18.618 --> 00:19:22.381 but that he felt was like every little bit of. 00:19:27.095 --> 00:19:34.534 I think it was more about not necessarily the way the bathroom looked as it was developing a culture of. 00:19:35.750 --> 00:19:43.040 Not accepting anything other than the very best in everything that happens and everything that we do. 00:19:43.040 --> 00:19:46.520 Very much about culture, it's not about the bathroom, it's about the culture. 00:19:46.520 --> 00:19:50.702 It's about the culture, it's about the culture that expects things to be well done, 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:59.520 and excellent and taken care of and the details, looked after, the T's dotted and the I's crossed. 00:19:59.520 --> 00:20:05.040 You know what I mean. And so she talked a lot about that, 00:20:05.040 --> 00:20:10.040 But then Dallas Jenkins, the director of The Chosen, 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:16.701 used a phrase that really stuck with me and that I'm really wanting to implement here, 00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:20.581 or just in my life in general, is about, 00:20:22.840 --> 00:20:28.143 he said, sanding the underside of the drawer. Yeah, because they were talking about building the set 00:20:28.320 --> 00:20:34.040 on which they filmed The Chosen and the amount of detail they've put into building that set. 00:20:34.354 --> 00:20:44.200 It's like we've essentially we've sanded the underside of the doors There's we've put effort into details that will never ever be on camera or you will never be able to see or notice, right? 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:51.700 Because It was about the culture of the thing that they were doing. Yeah, it was about creating this culture of. 00:20:54.240 --> 00:21:03.640 Attention to detail and the cumulative attention to detail over time creating significant results. 00:21:04.728 --> 00:21:13.600 And so, we've been talking about, as it pertains to, or even the building that we have 00:21:13.600 --> 00:21:15.600 this ministry in, Kanu is in, 00:21:15.600 --> 00:21:20.086 and we have like the front faces of our drawers. 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:27.960 That aren't sanded in some places, right? We're being vulnerable today. 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:35.471 Yeah, so we have like the things that people use every day that aren't Sanded. Yeah, so, 00:21:36.360 --> 00:21:46.751 beginning to shift that culture not because we desire to be overly materialistic or focus on things that are important but 00:21:47.080 --> 00:21:48.600 because of. 00:21:50.433 --> 00:21:54.682 If we don't care about the things that are small and menial, like the cleanliness of the bathroom, 00:21:55.906 --> 00:22:02.842 it does begin to create questions around like, well, what do you, like, do you have the. 00:22:04.611 --> 00:22:10.202 Wherewithal to care about the big things? You know, I think someone on our leadership team 00:22:10.202 --> 00:22:16.922 here, I kind of a few weeks ago asked the question about like, are we aware of how we 00:22:16.922 --> 00:22:24.522 are stewarding all the things that we have. There was a situation that came up, it was clear that 00:22:24.522 --> 00:22:33.162 we had kind of missed something administratively years ago, and it led to the question of like, 00:22:33.229 --> 00:22:39.082 okay, what else has God entrusted us with that we are not... 00:22:39.486 --> 00:22:50.874 Not taking stock of. Taking stock of, stewarding. And it's not a, I feel like it would be really easy, not easy, but like it, it's not like. 00:22:51.602 --> 00:22:56.882 You know, I think one of the things that like has drawn me to Conduit and like I really 00:22:56.882 --> 00:23:05.349 appreciate is that like the authenticity that we have at the core of a lot of our culture. 00:23:05.642 --> 00:23:15.122 We, you know, we've very much prioritized, like, let's, let's be authentic. Let's be real. Let's be like genuine. And so 00:23:15.122 --> 00:23:23.082 sometimes we've, you know, we're, I don't think we're in danger of being whitewashed to, I don't think so. Yeah. And so, 00:23:23.122 --> 00:23:25.322 but it is, there always is the danger, but I don't think we 00:23:25.560 --> 00:23:35.462 are. Sure. And so I don't think, you know, it's not an effort to maybe clean things up because of, um. 00:23:36.704 --> 00:23:42.727 To create an appearance, to create like a falseness. It's just a like, because it's, 00:23:42.817 --> 00:23:50.809 you know, I feel this and think about this in like our own, in like my workspace, right? We 00:23:50.809 --> 00:23:57.005 were talking about like, how good it feels to sit down at a desk that's clear of clutter, 00:23:57.347 --> 00:24:02.489 of like, if I have like all these papers and things that like I haven't dealt with, and like, 00:24:02.631 --> 00:24:06.409 Maybe it's a paper from a couple months ago or from a week ago, and I'm done with it 00:24:06.409 --> 00:24:08.320 And I just haven't gotten it off my desk yet, 00:24:08.842 --> 00:24:13.369 like I sit down and I'm feeling like the stress of just all the stuff on my desk or, 00:24:14.100 --> 00:24:19.049 For you, maybe it's like, uh the entryway to your home if you're walking into your entryway, 00:24:19.645 --> 00:24:23.369 You've got like a mudroom and your mudroom is just where everything gets tossed. 00:24:24.969 --> 00:24:35.329 Why don't you just hashtag me just just at just at me There are a bunch of shoes as you come into our apartment 00:24:35.329 --> 00:24:44.086 There's a bunch of everything when you come into my house And you're just like, if that's the first thing that hits you when you come in, how does that impact you? 00:24:44.581 --> 00:24:48.329 Like when you're coming home and you're like, ah, do I feel good to be home? 00:24:48.329 --> 00:24:55.114 Or do you like, huh, this stuff, like everything, you know? So it's asking those questions of like, 00:24:55.222 --> 00:24:58.463 how does that impact people who come on a Sunday morning? 00:24:58.823 --> 00:25:03.589 Because we often say on Sunday mornings, we say, welcome home, right? 00:25:03.589 --> 00:25:09.068 We desire conduit to be a place that people can find to be a relational, spiritual home. 00:25:10.209 --> 00:25:15.711 But if you're coming into your home, into a place that we want you to feel like home, 00:25:15.882 --> 00:25:19.389 and it's not taking care of physically in a place, 00:25:19.681 --> 00:25:25.641 and it doesn't help you feel invited, where there's an unnecessary obstacle there to that goal. 00:25:27.621 --> 00:25:36.254 Yeah, and all of that is, well, I don't know if it's all connected to it, but there was 00:25:36.479 --> 00:25:47.351 an interesting activity that Craig Groeschel did at the end of his talk, which was the first talk. 00:25:47.351 --> 00:26:03.231 And you've heard us fanboy over Craig a lot. It's funny because I've listened to the GLS a couple of times, and he's always the first 00:26:03.231 --> 00:26:05.951 speaker because he's kind of the public face for it. 00:26:05.951 --> 00:26:09.374 He does a lot of promotion for it over the course of the year. 00:26:10.071 --> 00:26:17.031 And usually you don't put your strongest speaker at the first part, but almost every year I 00:26:17.031 --> 00:26:22.382 walk out saying, I don't know. His talk was still probably the best. 00:26:22.553 --> 00:26:26.496 Yeah. Like I walk out hearing his first talk and I'm just like, well, 00:26:26.631 --> 00:26:30.169 it was worth the price of coming here. Yep. You know? Yeah. 00:26:31.111 --> 00:26:37.991 He did a talk at the beginning about how to develop trust as a leader. How do we develop 00:26:37.991 --> 00:26:43.111 trust? Cause if we are in an, maybe we are in an era where people are having a difficult time 00:26:43.111 --> 00:26:50.231 trusting leaders. So what are the things that develop trust? He had three main things that 00:26:50.231 --> 00:26:51.801 that he thought developed trust. 00:26:52.468 --> 00:26:54.664 Number one, transparency. 00:26:55.564 --> 00:26:57.527 Can you be transparent? 00:26:58.625 --> 00:27:03.810 And well, I should back up. And he said, I'm gonna tell you my three things. 00:27:04.603 --> 00:27:13.173 And then at the end, I'm gonna ask you to stand up to identify which of these three things 00:27:13.389 --> 00:27:17.107 you need to work on most in your leadership journey. 00:27:18.187 --> 00:27:23.411 All right, so the first was transparency. You know, and that goes down, 00:27:23.411 --> 00:27:30.889 that went down from just being personally vulnerable to being able to clearly communicate, 00:27:31.825 --> 00:27:36.931 the things of your organization or your church or whatever, like make sure you're communicating 00:27:36.931 --> 00:27:38.631 because whatever people aren't up on, they're down on. 00:27:39.011 --> 00:27:39.851 You know? 00:27:41.571 --> 00:27:46.841 And there was a little bit in that transparency thing, more from like I think a, 00:27:47.012 --> 00:27:49.974 Well, there's personal transparency that needs to be, like... 00:27:51.505 --> 00:27:56.875 That I need, certainly need to do better at being more vulnerable with my team. 00:27:57.635 --> 00:28:00.555 And I don't know what to do or when I don't have the answer. 00:28:03.910 --> 00:28:09.675 And, you know, or whatever, but like be more transparent. Right. Yeah. 00:28:11.499 --> 00:28:17.595 And then it was, the second was empathy. So that the old adage, people don't care how much, 00:28:17.595 --> 00:28:22.184 what you know, until they know how much you care, um, and, you know, having a, 00:28:22.463 --> 00:28:25.479 a kind of a people centered view of leadership. 00:28:26.115 --> 00:28:29.835 And I felt really good when he was talking about empathy. Cause I was like, 00:28:30.214 --> 00:28:32.546 I mean, like, I don't, I don't know what the last one is, 00:28:32.591 --> 00:28:37.515 but I know empathy is not the main leadership issue here. Yeah. We're very, 00:28:37.515 --> 00:28:40.435 we're a very empathetic team. Um, 00:28:40.475 --> 00:28:49.155 sometimes so empathetic that we end up like absorbing the other's issues, right? 00:28:49.155 --> 00:28:50.875 We care deeply. Care deeply. 00:28:52.595 --> 00:28:56.438 And then the third was consistency. 00:28:58.275 --> 00:29:00.955 So leaders need to be transparent, they need to be empathetic, 00:29:00.955 --> 00:29:02.334 and they need to be consistent. 00:29:02.812 --> 00:29:06.827 Yep, it's not about what you do once, it's about what you do all the time. Yes, right. 00:29:09.167 --> 00:29:18.557 Yeah, good leaders do consistently what all others only do occasionally, which was his motto. 00:29:19.635 --> 00:29:26.235 And he talked a little bit more about consistency and he was like, okay, stand up for transparency. 00:29:27.315 --> 00:29:33.068 None of our team stood up. No, right. Okay, stand up for empathy. 00:29:33.235 --> 00:29:34.166 None of our team stood up. 00:29:35.058 --> 00:29:39.708 Okay, stand up for creating, you know, like consistency and our whole team stood up all of us. 00:29:41.692 --> 00:29:49.148 Which I knew that was definitely for me. And that, you know, I was gonna, but I was surprised 00:29:49.148 --> 00:29:54.828 that our whole that it was the thing for our whole team. So it was revealing to me and interesting 00:29:54.828 --> 00:30:03.108 to me and I'm, I'm, I'm eager to develop that as a team. 00:30:03.108 --> 00:30:08.978 And I think probably one of the things that is, one of the things that is most, I don't, 00:30:09.428 --> 00:30:17.152 want to say difficult for me post something like GLS is there's times where you, where 00:30:17.508 --> 00:30:19.079 you get really encouraged for sure. 00:30:20.141 --> 00:30:26.188 Yup. But there's also times where you come away just being really challenged about the. 00:30:28.477 --> 00:30:36.084 Deficiencies in your leadership, or at least I came away being really, really challenged 00:30:36.201 --> 00:30:40.612 about the deficiencies in my leadership, trying not to be discouraged about them, 00:30:42.348 --> 00:30:44.508 but a little bit of discouragement there. 00:30:46.428 --> 00:30:56.148 But then coming back into the, into the fray, into the grind, and trying to wrestle with, okay. 00:30:58.626 --> 00:31:02.695 How much of this do I need to do all at once? 00:31:05.056 --> 00:31:14.636 And does it show a lack of, does it show a lack of like awareness of my deficiencies 00:31:14.636 --> 00:31:16.945 if I don't tackle everything at once? 00:31:17.496 --> 00:31:22.968 Do I need to tell everyone as a leader, okay, here are the things that I wanna work on over the next year? 00:31:24.216 --> 00:31:29.816 Or do I just take them like one by one or do I take the whole list of things 00:31:29.816 --> 00:31:36.556 that I feel like God really asking me to work on and do I prioritize them and rank them 00:31:36.556 --> 00:31:38.616 and then just kind of like click them off. 00:31:39.901 --> 00:31:49.020 And so I come away from GLS and other times like that feeling, having a little bit more clarity. 00:31:53.096 --> 00:32:02.056 Having a little bit more discouragement, having a little bit more encouragement simultaneously, 00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:05.080 but also wondering kind of, okay, 00:32:05.416 --> 00:32:10.416 how do I begin to tackle the deficiencies, 00:32:11.176 --> 00:32:14.065 in a healthy way, and how do I know, 00:32:14.896 --> 00:32:20.924 when's the right time to move from deficiency number one to deficiency number two? 00:32:22.056 --> 00:32:29.836 And how do the people that I lead perceive me as I'm leading through that? 00:32:29.836 --> 00:32:34.836 Which was another question that just like, oh my gosh. 00:32:35.868 --> 00:32:40.216 It was a question from, was it Ryan Leak? Ryan Leak, which I'm reading his book, 00:32:40.216 --> 00:32:42.701 Leveling Up Your Leadership, which is great. 00:32:42.896 --> 00:32:47.238 And he asked the question, or he encouraged us to ask the question, 00:32:47.436 --> 00:32:52.436 What's it like to be on the other side of you? 00:32:55.727 --> 00:33:05.657 Like that's a great question fantastic question. I don't want anyone to actually answer it. I'm afraid of what am I here? You know 00:33:06.035 --> 00:33:11.544 Because I have a sense of what what it's probably like to be on the other side of me. I don't really like it. Yeah, 00:33:14.457 --> 00:33:23.057 And so But yeah, it just so it lends to that Craig if you're out there listening since you're the leadership goat 00:33:23.057 --> 00:33:34.897 So, do a leadership podcast on how to process through a thing like GLS where you have maybe 00:33:34.897 --> 00:33:38.236 10 things that you want to integrate into your leadership. 00:33:38.697 --> 00:33:44.937 How do you do that in a way that keeps you not feeling absolutely drowned or paralyzed 00:33:44.937 --> 00:33:50.173 in the immensity of the tasks that are before you? how do we run a marathon, not a sprint? 00:33:51.397 --> 00:33:57.582 Which is what you said to me, Mr. Leadership guy, when I came here on staff. 00:33:59.337 --> 00:34:05.937 I don't know if you remember, I remember this very, very keenly because it was for me a confirmation 00:34:05.937 --> 00:34:07.937 that I had ended up at the right place. 00:34:07.937 --> 00:34:14.560 I think it was within the first couple of months of being here on staff and I was still kind of figuring out the ropes. 00:34:14.737 --> 00:34:22.017 I was like, what does it mean to be on staff here? are the things I'm supposed to be doing?" And I came to you, and I was like, Cameron, I. 00:34:23.688 --> 00:34:27.057 Just want to do ministry. I just want to do more. I was just coming. I was like, 00:34:27.057 --> 00:34:31.297 what's, what do you want me to do? I was like offering to start like five ministries at once 00:34:31.297 --> 00:34:32.497 And you were just like, 00:34:33.726 --> 00:34:40.296 take care of yourself and just hold on. You'll get there, you'll be doing plenty soon enough, 00:34:40.296 --> 00:34:46.136 and you're like, we're doing a marathon on a sprint. And I was just like, wow, he's right. 00:34:46.248 --> 00:34:50.936 And partly, I was just amazed, because I don't know if... I don't know. There's not very many 00:34:50.936 --> 00:34:55.256 pastors when you have people come to them and say, I wanna do more, that the pastor says, 00:34:55.256 --> 00:35:00.936 don't do more. We're constantly... We feel like there's so much to do. 00:35:00.936 --> 00:35:05.936 But that's been in my mind, even today, earlier today, I was like sitting and 00:35:05.936 --> 00:35:11.736 going through my list of things and I was like, Ooh, how do I not get burned 00:35:11.736 --> 00:35:15.256 out trying to make all of these big changes at once? 00:35:15.296 --> 00:35:21.056 How do I just like slowly tick away at the things that like I can, I can knock 00:35:21.056 --> 00:35:27.816 off my list, sustainable pace, a sustainable pace, 26.4 miles, you know? 00:35:28.865 --> 00:35:34.856 Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm definitely resonating with that question of like, how do I. 00:35:36.652 --> 00:35:43.816 How do I affect long-term change? You know, it's, yeah, I don't know if anyone's listening 00:35:43.816 --> 00:35:49.016 and you've got a solution to it. But, um, Eugene Peterson has a book, 00:35:50.785 --> 00:35:55.576 titled Long Obedience in the Same Direction. And that's kind of like what I want 00:35:55.576 --> 00:35:58.383 It's not my, it's an oversimplification, 00:36:02.736 --> 00:36:09.496 my leadership or pastoral journey to be when I'm dead and gone, 00:36:09.496 --> 00:36:11.643 when people don't remember my name anymore. 00:36:13.536 --> 00:36:19.025 It was a long obedience in the same direction. It wasn't flashy. 00:36:19.898 --> 00:36:22.581 It wasn't like, of course I think every leader. 00:36:25.896 --> 00:36:33.447 And every pastor wants to change the world, and I do, but it wasn't like charismatically world-changing. 00:36:35.056 --> 00:36:43.536 I just want it to be, I want my kids to be able to be, like my dad served the Lord and served the church, 00:36:44.616 --> 00:36:59.376 and loved his family for 50 years or however long, a pastor and did so without like the the need for or the actual presence of the 00:36:59.376 --> 00:37:03.476 accolades of men, long obedience, same direction. 00:37:04.640 --> 00:37:04.910 Yeah. 00:37:06.891 --> 00:37:15.523 And when you say that, that makes me think of like, um, makes me think of a couple of things. But one of the things is that like, 00:37:16.298 --> 00:37:24.364 when it, there's this principle that, uh, I'm sure somebody smarter than me has got a name for it, 00:37:24.967 --> 00:37:32.620 but there seems to be this principle in life of like, the thing that we chase is the thing that we, uh, 00:37:32.660 --> 00:37:35.851 have probably like the hardest time getting and holding onto. 00:37:36.085 --> 00:37:44.860 But then when we finally come to a place where that is not the thing that we must have, is when we find that we have that thing in abundance. 00:37:45.321 --> 00:37:55.360 Like, if you want to chase the accolades of men, you won't get them, or you won't ever be satisfied by them when you get them. Yeah. 00:37:55.746 --> 00:38:03.340 But if you're willing to pursue, like, the will of God and to be faithful and to take the 00:38:03.340 --> 00:38:08.620 opportunities that are in front of you, you very well might find yourself up with the accolades of 00:38:08.620 --> 00:38:11.980 men, but very unconcerned that you now do have them. 00:38:13.462 --> 00:38:21.348 Right. Right, yeah. It's similar to what Jesus said to the disciples about the Pharisees' public prayers. 00:38:22.717 --> 00:38:30.460 Yeah. they say really intricate prayers out in the public street or out on the street corner 00:38:30.657 --> 00:38:35.980 to get the praise of men, they have it, that is their reward. 00:38:36.481 --> 00:38:36.139 Right. 00:38:37.876 --> 00:38:41.180 Or maybe he says that about their giving or their tithing or something like that. 00:38:41.180 --> 00:38:45.100 I think there's two. There's praying, the tithing, the fasting. 00:38:45.100 --> 00:38:51.820 Yeah, the same thing. You have a big, huge outward display of your personal righteousness 00:38:51.820 --> 00:38:57.580 and people think you are just an amazing man of God because of it, that is the reward you receive. 00:38:57.654 --> 00:39:03.420 You receive the praises of men as a reward, but not the praises of the Lord. You don't receive 00:39:03.740 --> 00:39:15.340 that. So yeah, I think you're spot on there about what your heart wants and desires and when it 00:39:15.340 --> 00:39:17.441 and it gets it, how does it, you know, like, 00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:28.980 the reason for which you ran after it it will determine how you feel when you actually get it. 00:39:28.190 --> 00:39:35.400 Because I'm always, this is like a little thing I always throw in, but like it's a. 00:39:37.048 --> 00:39:43.647 We're limited in every single capacity of ourselves as humans, right? Except for what 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:49.960 we desire. We always want more. We always want another good meal. We always want another good 00:39:50.237 --> 00:39:57.160 experience, we always want more affirmation. If you're someone who, like, if you've ever 00:39:57.160 --> 00:40:04.046 dealt with like, chasing approval, or chasing the opinions or people pleasing, you know 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:11.580 that like, yeah, you're one bad comment away from spiraling over your self worth, right? 00:40:11.580 --> 00:40:18.240 We always want more of something. Our desires, our heart is the one thing about ourselves 00:40:18.240 --> 00:40:24.160 that is infinite. And that points to the fact that we were meant to fill ourselves not with 00:40:24.160 --> 00:40:29.361 finite things, but something infinite. And there is only one infinite thing, and that's God, 00:40:29.520 --> 00:40:37.680 right? It's Christ. It's, you know, was it Blaise Pascal that said that idea in the concept of a 00:40:37.680 --> 00:40:45.600 God-shaped hole inside of our souls? Only one thing can fill it. And so if we're chasing accolades, 00:40:45.600 --> 00:40:49.800 that we're chasing success, we get those things, those things 00:40:50.237 --> 00:40:54.280 are our only temporary, it will feel really good in the moment, 00:40:54.280 --> 00:41:01.640 but give it a little bit and it will start to leak out. And we will find we're still wanting something. We just don't know 00:41:01.640 --> 00:41:02.921 what yeah, yep. Yeah. 00:41:06.477 --> 00:41:06.880 Well, 00:41:10.618 --> 00:41:22.680 do we call that? Call it Okay. So thank you everyone for listening, for, um, you know, listening in on this conversation. 00:41:22.680 --> 00:41:29.260 Let us know your thoughts, your comments, your questions, things that sparked things 00:41:29.260 --> 00:41:34.300 for you or places you'd want to hear us go. Um, we might return to some of these as we 00:41:34.300 --> 00:41:40.580 kind of think and process them more over the coming weeks and yeah, we're going to try 00:41:40.580 --> 00:41:46.249 and continue to be consistent here on the podcast. It's one place we can practice that rule. 00:41:48.211 --> 00:41:55.860 If you want to send us a comment or a question, you can do that through leaving anywhere on the 00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:59.860 comments, but also through our text line. Cameron, do you remember our text line? 00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:03.400 716-267-0157. Oh, wow. 00:42:05.200 --> 00:42:07.278 Well, that's it, folks. Thanks for joining us. 00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:16.446 Music.