Good morning Grid Connections listeners.
In today's episode we're excited to have Brenton Murray, the founder of
Electruck4x4 .com to join us.
We'll dive into Brenton's journey from starring at Tesla, then working at Rivian,
and from there explore how Electruck4x4 came to be.
We'll take a closer look at the impressive range of products Electruck4x4 offers for
off -road electric vehicles.
Brenton will share insights on the EV models they currently support and give us
a sneak peek into the exciting EV models they're planning to cover in the future.
We'll also discuss why EVs excel in off -road conditions and the burgeoning
industry that's developing for aftermarket items to support off -roading EV
enthusiasts.
If you enjoyed today's conversation, please share this episode with at least
one friend or colleague who you think would appreciate it as well.
And don't forget to leave us a positive review on our podcast page.
Your support helps us continue bringing you great content.
With that, enjoy.
Brenton thank you so much for being on today.
And for those who may not be familiar, can just give kind of like a little quick
background on how you got involved and then tell us more about Electruck four by
four.
Sure, yeah.
Well, it's a long story, but I'll try and keep it short.
But basically, I've been a car person, car guy my whole life.
My journey kind of started in the aftermarket.
I worked at a racing school in college, and then I worked at a brake manufacturer.
We made racing brakes for classic cars, muscle cars.
Went back to school.
I kind of had a crisis of conscience where I was like, you know, this whole...
hot rod thing is great and all, but I kind of also want to do something that's maybe
a little bit more productive for the environment and society.
And so I got my MBA in sustainability.
At the time there was this company that nobody had heard of called Tesla that was
working on a roadster.
And so they were on my radar.
I kind of packed my bags, moved out to California, said I'll figure it out when I
got there and just started hitting the ground trying to network my way into
Tesla.
Got a job there early on with the launch of the Model S.
I was at Tesla for about five years, moved on to another couple startups, wound up at
Rivian, was at Rivian for two years.
After that, I moved on and founded Electruck 4x4.
I also worked at a company called Wind River doing software product management
for software -defined vehicles.
And yeah, now I'm doing the Electruck thing full -time and just
Yeah, continuing to build and support the community.
No, that's I mean, that's such a great foundational background to have to not
only have the electric vehicle and kind of the software defined side of stuff that's
become so prevalent, but then also kind of figuring out how can you implement
hardware, especially kind of like the classic car background of what was OEM and
what was stock and then kind of how do you take it to the next level and make sure
all these systems and components on a hardware and also internal systems kind of
work together.
So let's talk about electric.
I know you have electric four by four, and then there's also the make what kind of
product
Let's just kind of get a overview of both and I'm sure they'll can open up the door
to a lot more conversations.
Sure, yeah, so let's see.
When I left Caribbean, yeah, back in, what was it, 2022, there was an opportunity
that I had identified in the market for accessories for trucks.
I had an R1, or have an R1T.
I knew a bunch of other folks that I had worked with, as well as just other people
in the community that were owners and that they had all expressed needs for different
accessories and things like that.
And so, yeah, I also...
knew that there are plenty of, particularly in the overlanding space,
there are all kinds of accessories that are universal, but just aren't marketed
towards EVs.
Things like ditch lights and various brackets and things like that, tires,
certain wheels and things like that.
And so, yeah, I basically set out to market those particular products to, at
that time, Rivian owners specifically, as well as to develop additional products in
-house.
And so...
One of the big items that we developed is the megawatt rock sliders, which we offer
for the R1S and R1T.
But early on there were some kind of more low -hanging fruits, things like sunshades
and things like that that we designed as well.
So rock sliders, I feel like one of the big things people have kind of talked
about with, I think just off -roading in general, but especially with some of these
electric vehicles, they're getting them the off -roading space.
They're obviously awesome off -road.
I just even rewatched Top Gear's kind of comparison between the Cybertruck and the
Rivian R1T.
Both did pretty amazing on challenging terrains.
However, the concern I think a lot of people have in the off -roading community
and just in general is just the general price of the vehicles and so adding
something like rock sliders to help kind of protect and minimize damage that could
happen while off -roading is that Has that been an area that kind of lent itself
like?
Like starting with what products you wanted to develop.
Obviously in some ways rock sliders are a little bit just physically easier to add
to the vehicle.
But has there been any sort of decisions around what products specifically have
like the highest return?
I think just a lot of people who are new to the off -road community, those are kind
of the things they look at first just because it helps them protect the vehicle
electric or not getting into the off -road and sometimes the unfortunate side effects
that can happen with some of these fun adventures.
Yeah, that was kind of the what what prompted it really is I had a couple of
friends and co workers that I would go four wheeling with we take our one tease
out.
This was pretty early days.
So yeah, in like, yeah, there was 2022 or 20.
Yeah, I can't recall the exact year.
But anyways, we go.
Yeah, we go four wheeling and we would tend to push the trucks kind of hard.
But at the same time, you know, there's that kind of continual pucker factor when
you're driving a vehicle that you really don't want to get damaged.
And so rock sliders were a very apparent need for us.
And then as I continued to engage with the communities, both online and forums and
discord and other groups and social, you know, on social and things like that, that
need was exemplified even further there.
And so, yeah.
reached out to some folks that I knew from my aftermarket days and kind of shook some
trees networking wise.
They introduced me to some folks who are fabricators.
They've been in the off -road and custom motorcycle space for decades building a
lot of bikes for Hot Bike magazine and they do a lot of work with Harley and then
they also dirt bikes and they...
Also do some work with rock crawlers and trophy trucks and some serious off -road
stuff.
And so, yeah, started working with them.
They're out in Arizona, which is where a lot of my aftermarket network is.
So drove out there, drove my truck out there, and we spent some time kind of
going over some of the product requirements as far as what we were
looking to cover.
Like a kick out, for instance, being a feature that was important.
Obviously, the particular weight requirements for an electric truck.
Yeah, spent some time designing and over time came up with a pretty solid product.
You know, it worked without a few hiccups and twists along the ways, but yeah, we
managed to deliver something that we're really happy with and has been very
successful so far.
So I have a question for you.
You're working with these great teams, but teams that have been pretty well
entrenched in the combustion engine space for a while now.
I've actually been surprised to the feedback and reception I have when I kind
of talk about that or like even sometimes classic car conversions.
There is sometimes people who have very strong opinions, pro and con, but I'm kind
of curious, what has been in your experience overall the...
interactions with these like, I'm doing these for electric vehicles.
What are their kind of thoughts on it?
Yeah, it's been really interesting.
So the yeah, the my aftermarket experience was yeah, in muscle cars.
And so you know, I kind of throughout my career transition from this world where I
would go into the office and people would have carburetors on their desks to this
world where people have circuit boards on their desks and things like that.
And, you know, the the guys that we I partner with that are now part of the team
to manufacture these there, I would say, you know, decidedly old school, you know,
they'll they'll
incredibly talented fabricators.
That said, I would say they're not, environmentalism is probably not high on
their list.
Great guys though.
And so they're interested in and curious, I mean, in developing new products.
They see the vehicles starting to be on the road more and more.
They know the direction the industry is headed.
They just saw the opportunity as well.
And so, I would say,
We exchanged some jabs at each other about, whether it's politics or various
things.
But for better or for worse, we're all aligned on the same ultimate goal as far
as expanding the availability and support of accessories for these trucks.
And we've been really able to develop some really awesome products as a result.
Yeah, I think that's great to hear because I think that's been my experience too.
Environmentalism probably isn't the top reason for a lot of people in the, whether
it be the classic car or the off -roading spaces.
But what is pretty interesting to me is that aside, they're always pretty
interesting, the performance and the actual like...
usability or like how effective it is.
And I think more often than not, they're pretty open to kind of like learning more
and have a curiosity around it.
And you're right, I think there can be some friendly jabs made here and there,
but it usually is in kind of good fun versus like.
being completely shut off to the idea and there's an element I think also kind of
times are changing but at the end of the day especially in if it's performance
related I think what is more interest to them is like if it's better they're into
it or they at least want to be aware of how it in what areas it's better
Yeah, I think with the exception of the true zealots who are anti -EV or whatnot,
yeah, when it comes down to it, we're all in this industry or in this car culture
because we enjoy them as machines and the things they can do and the places they can
take us.
And so any vehicle that can do that in a different or perhaps more performant way
is of interest to, just kind of transcends politics or
things like that.
But yeah, early on, you know, we'd be out on the trails and we'd come across like a,
you know, an H1 Humvee on the trail or, you know, an old Jeep or something like
that.
And, you know, you kind of, you get a little uneasy, you know, you're not sure
how this interaction is going to go out, go down.
And almost every single time, whether it was here or, you know, Arizona is a little
more, I live in the Bay area, but in Arizona is a little more conservative.
People have been it's been positive across the board people are really curious and
interested and it's been really awesome as a result
Yeah, I actually have family down there and took a EV conversion course that's
offered by a company down there called Legacy EV.
And I think it has been really interesting to see that sometimes there will be
definitely defenses and kind of walls up by a lot of people when you start talking
about this.
But I think pretty quickly there's once they kind of know, you know what you're
talking about for sure.
And that you're trying to come at it from like a logical position of either
performance or
Having clear metrics of what you're trying to accomplish and how like an ev may
accomplish that better.
It's definitely been Pretty positive and people start kind of I actually when I
even took the course It was really funny because I was pretty much kind of the only
let's say average joe in there There's a lot of people from different companies and
a good quite a few were actually from shelby america And so them obviously
building the massive like shelby,
I think everyone knows the Shelby Mustang cars, but now they a lot of their cars are
actually like jacked up Shelby F three fifties and stuff that are just like on a
whole nother level.
But they were also like pretty quickly.
They saw that there's a huge area for this where these electric vehicles, whether
it's Pike's Peak or off road that have some pretty big advantages.
So that's kind of great to hear.
And we're it's interesting being bring up Arizona, because I think when a lot of
people think of the kind of
Not necessarily off -road, but third -party space for cars.
Southern California, I think, comes up for kind of tuning and like that sort of
stuff.
But there's such a large kind of industry now.
I think there has been for quite a while, but I've found it pretty impressive just
over the last decade.
And maybe it is some of it has been a shift out of Southern California to the
Phoenix area and kind of beyond around just
off -roading classic car and then now even EV conversion kind of stuff in the Arizona
area.
Are there any things that you've noticed as to why that is or any preference to
kind of working with third -party teams in that area?
Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, the the aftermarket has been, I'd say, strong in
Arizona for for a while.
That said, you're right.
I mean, you know, when you think of of hot rods and things like that, SoCal is
definitely kind of the powerhouse.
Right.
That said, yeah, over time, you're starting to see the economics just in
general of whether it's labor or real estate prices.
The combination of that is driving a lot of that.
growth in the Phoenix area.
You know, the area also, you also have a lot of automotive culture around, you
know, Barrett Jackson is out there, Russo Steel, a variety of other auctions out
there, and so that drives the automotive culture big time.
But yeah, so I think the exciting part actually is the growth in the EV space in
particular, right?
So obviously, you know, Lucid being in Casa Grande, that kind of was the
the big, I would say one of the first big stakes in the ground.
The OEMs have been using the proving grounds outside of Casa Grande for
everything, EVs and otherwise for a while.
But yeah, now you're starting to see, Licycle is out there for battery
recycling.
You're starting to see a lot of other folks in the space starting to grow there
as well as the off -roading culture as well.
Particularly growing up right there, I don't know if you're familiar with the
term desert rat, but that's kind of.
Yeah, so like that sort of desert off -road culture is big out there.
And so you need parts and accessories for that.
That's spurring that aspect of the aftermarket as well in the Phoenix area.
But yeah, a lot of different avenues of growth out there.
I think that's just awesome to see because there's been a lot of concerns, I think,
around electric vehicles.
And I think a lot of it in some regards is valid around electric vehicles replacing
jobs and what is needed for the next generation of vehicles.
But it's also been, I think, a lot harder for people to look at how to go to the
aftermarket or how to improve their vehicles beyond maybe just aesthetic
stuff.
I think we're finally starting to see some of its right to repair, some of its
the automakers, especially the startups, kind of being more open to sharing some of
the software and other stuff.
So you can actually, I wouldn't say tune so much, but actually have more access to
that and like knowing what's going on with the battery to kind of take these
aftermarket improvements to the next level.
Now with the off road side of stuff, it's in some regards, obviously aesthetic, but
there's a lot that you can bolt on that.
well, aesthetic has huge things exactly like rock sliders where it's, it isn't
maybe so defined like maybe the aftermarket for performance or car side of
stuff versus off -roaders.
So I'm kind of curious, you started with rock sliders.
For those listening, can you share what vehicles that Electruck 4x4 right now is
kind of focused on in the EV space and maybe which ones you're looking to expand
to offering additional items for in the future?
Yeah, I would say right now we're primarily focused on the Rivian segment
within the EV space.
We also offer a handful of products for F -150 Lightnings.
The Cybertruck is something of interest to us.
We're kind of seeing how things play out there.
There's obviously some support, a decent amount of support already for the
Cybertruck.
But yeah, at this point it's been primarily focused on Rivians.
The Silverado EV is another one that is possible.
I think some of the kind of traditional or legacy OEMs have been a little slower on
the rollout of trucks and SUVs.
And so, yeah, and then I would say on the Tesla side, I'm sure somebody will have
some feedback about...
but the cyber truck, you know, it's it's I would say it it is a very capable and
dynamic truck that said off -road it might not be quite as capable at least, you know
until a couple upgrades or our OTA updates or whatnot later as you know, like some of
the other trucks like the Rivian is a very capable vehicle and and you know being
passionate about that the about four -wheeling it just you know that that that
personal passion has really driven a lot of that interest in
developing new accessories for that vehicle, those vehicles in particular.
For sure.
And it's kind of interesting some of the vehicles that you mentioned that you're
covering and looking to cover because I'm curious when you talk about like Rivian
R1T, it obviously has that kind of off -road.
That's a huge part of why people buy the Rivian in general, let alone the R1T
especially.
And I think when you look at the R1T and even the Cybertruck off -road differences
aside, they're kind of considered more kind of lifestyle trucks.
And I don't know if that's necessarily the right
I think people kind of say that to almost cast them off, but I look at both vehicles
and obviously I want to see more of the Cybertruck.
But what I think is really cool when you look at it as like a spider graph, both of
those vehicles, maybe they don't do, I would say like the, speaking of like the F
-150 Lightning and the Silverado, those are very focused, like traditional kind of
work trucks that have kind of evolved to be more lifestyle and like SUV
replacements.
Whereas I think some of the ones from the startups are a little bit more, cover a
little.
a little bit of everything pretty well.
And so I'm kind of curious with the off -road and just like the aftermarket things
that you're offering, are you seeing or even positioning the different things for
like maybe what you do for the Rivian R1T as being more focused for off -road and
then for the F -150 Lightning, probably some off -road stuff, but also maybe more
for like if you are using it as a work truck or kind of a clear different use
case day to day for what these additional items are.
Yeah, you know, it is interesting.
I think the startups have done their homework or chosen a great path there as
far as pursuing more lifestyle, if you want to call it lifestyle trucks or
whatnot, just, you know, the margins are going to be a lot bigger there in terms
of, yeah, so compared to a work truck, which is going to...
And so, you know, we are support just by nature of kind of what the...
those owners tend to be interested in and gravitate towards.
That's where the majority of our support there is.
The other thing is, you know, the F -150 Lightning, this kind of goes back to what
I mentioned about there being off -the -shelf products that are already available
but just not marketed.
It's sharing the same, you know, a large, yeah, exactly.
So, you know, suspension items, maybe not quite the same.
I mean, we do,
have a number of F -150 Lightning suspension items in our catalog.
I'm not sure if they're online right now, but we do have access to those.
And so we do support it.
But that said, right now, it's kind of the bread and butter, I would say, low
-hanging fruit that appeals to kind of the broader ownership base rather than just
off -road or lifestyle sort of owner.
Gotcha.
And so when you start looking at like you mentioned, Cybertruck Silverado, obviously
a big component of that is the actual volume of these that will be delivered.
But what have what are kind of the I'm just curious from yourself, what are the
determining factors like, OK, we're going to start offering it is it has to be
volume or are there other kind of considerations that go into what future
vehicles that you want to kind of offer support for?
Yeah, I mean, I would say the determining factors are a lot more basic than that.
We're an entirely bootstrap company.
And so it comes down to what's a mix of what are the capital requirements in terms
of developing new accessories and then what is the potential return.
And so owning an R1T myself, that makes it a lot easier, particularly early on, to
develop products for.
for sure.
And then now the community in Arizona has been incredibly supportive.
So we work with a number of owners out there for, yeah, for measurement and
engineering of new accessories.
I don't have a Cybertruck.
I know a handful of folks who do.
It's, you know, the, we just kind of need to see how, what that ownership is going
to be like, you know, what sort of delivery volumes are going to be for the
Cybertruck and things like that.
So, and I, that totally makes sense.
Kind of taking a step back when you're talking about, kind of choosing the right
products, what, not, not even for which, cars by me or trucks, but what has been
kind of the determining factors or like, is it market research or is it on
personal?
Like, I've like figuring out like, there are ones he definitely needs rock sliders.
And then to kind of like, what are some of the things that you're offering today for
people listening?
And then maybe go into some of the products that
probably aren't ready just yet but ones that you're hoping to really offer maybe
in the medium to longer term future.
Yeah, you know, we engage with the community a lot on various forums as well
as on social media.
There's also a couple Discord and other channels as well that we're engaged on.
So yeah, we work with owners there as well as with the Rivian Clubs of America.
They've been great partners of ours as well as just a variety of other places
like that to perform market research and really assess kind of like what's the
demand.
The other aspects that we look at are, is there an offering for that product
already?
Is somebody already offering that?
And then what sort of design and engineering requirements are going to be
needed in order to develop that product?
What does manufacturing look like?
Is that something that can be easily produced here domestically?
Is that something that has to be made abroad?
some hybrid of the two, how complex is the product, is there assembly required,
things like that.
So we kind of take all those into consideration before determining where
we're gonna go next.
Gotcha.
That what we're gonna say.
yeah, and then I'd say coming down the road, we're looking to do a number of
other off -road products for the R1S and R1T.
The platform has been revised recently, and so we kind of need to, that will
obviously influence where we go next.
But I would say things like,
steps or running boards as opposed to rock sliders or something that's on our radar
in the future.
There are a handful of other items for mounting things in the bed of the R1T that
are also coming down the pipe.
Yeah, those are a couple of them.
Yeah, I mean, this is a, it's a passion project of mine.
It's something that I've put a lot of time and energy into, but at the same time, I
also have a day job.
And so that kind of split, and obviously now with a growing family, that makes time
a resource that is not as easily, it's harder to find somebody who's willing to
invest time as opposed to other resources, you know, and so that also is a factor.
For sure with with kind of where you are and like you said there's there is a lot
you're kind of juggling But obviously there's a big interest in the space with
where you are now What what are some of the things that kind of like surprised you
along the way to get to where you are whether it be?
Maybe things that were more difficult or just maybe they're being a larger market
than you expect I'm just kind of curious what what have been the challenges good
and bad maybe that you can share with us
Yeah, so well, yeah, there have been quite a few challenges.
I mean, with the platform itself, the R1 platform changed.
There were some cost reduction changes that were implemented that required us to
go kind of go back to the drawing board and re -engineer some aspects of a couple
of products like the rock sliders.
That was a hiccup that we overcame.
There, you know, when you're...
Yeah, when you're bootstrapping something like this, everything is new, right?
So everything from packaging, finding a carrier who's going to support direct
consumer freight on an ongoing basis, things like that.
That's been a learning experience that we've overcome.
We also do manufacture parts abroad.
So there's four.
I tend to use, so yeah, I'm very particular about which parts we'll.
build domestically versus abroad.
And it's kind of without naming any names of retailers, but there are inexpensive
tool resellers that many automotive enthusiasts go to.
And I use the same philosophy for when I buy tools from those sorts of stores, and
it's the dumber the part, the more acceptable it is to manufacture it abroad.
If it's a solid chunk of aluminum.
Sure, with the right partner abroad, we can co -produce that or contract those
sorts of things.
And so, yes, building the supply chain for that, as well as we also drop ship and
resell a variety of other products as well.
And so building out that network of suppliers has been a learning experience.
And then everything, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of the, other than the actual
assembly and engineering of the rock sliders, I'm kind of the chief cook and
bottle washer here.
And so,
learning everything from the e -commerce platform.
We use Shopify, which luckily is very intuitive, but kind of lean back on some
of prior work experience for some of that other software stuff.
But yeah, there's been learning kind of across the board and changes that we've
had to kind of follow in order to stay competitive and keep growing.
I realize you're doing obviously the majority of kind of getting this off the
ground and the bootstraps I saw.
But if you're willing to share, is there any, if there's anyone listening, are
there any skill sets or something that might be of value that if someone wanted
to work with you to maybe to reach out to maybe kind of help you get electric moving
even faster or just kind of keeping the momentum going.
Yeah, something that actually I found that has been really unique to this particular
startup.
I've had a couple other startups in the past, but something that's very unique
about this particular one is the community aspect.
We've worked with owners who also are building their own parts.
I've worked with owners.
There's a great guy who lives in Oregon who owns a manufacturing.
company and he's he's co -produced some some parts for us out of stainless steel
and been really great there.
I've worked with a number of owners to design and engineer accessories like
brackets and things like that.
So shout out to my friends over at Sunish .com.
They've been fantastic partners.
We've worked together on we make iPad brackets for the seat back out of out of
stainless steel.
And so yeah, I would say folks with
you know, engineering expertise, that's been great, you know, working with folks
there.
That's probably the biggest one.
I'm a software guy and I would say aspiring mechanic, you know, I can rebuild
an engine or, you know, do things like that, but I'm not, you know, an engineer
by trade.
And so having someone particularly with like Fusion 360 skills, that's really kind
of like...
That's really the biggest part.
It's the, you know, the transforming the sketch into a digital model that is then
manufacturable.
And then that can then be tested, you know, to ensure performance and things
like that.
That's kind of, those are the skills that I'm looking for really.
That's great to know and hopefully anyone listening can definitely kind of reach out
and help you with that.
With where you're looking to kind of take Electruck 4x4, can you share any of the
roadmap maybe that we haven't discussed already that I realize this is kind of
your passion project and you've got a lot you're juggling right now.
But is there anything you can kind of share for maybe like the next year as far
as roadmap for where you're looking to take Electruck and maybe expand into?
Yeah, I think Cybertruck is definitely on the horizon.
I think we might pursue more of a reseller route there, more so than building
Megawatt products.
I think there are a handful that it's possible we might make, but yeah, it's
kind of a...
right now, we wanna kind of stay abreast of where things are headed with the R1
platform.
And so I think, yeah, a combination of kind of, I guess you could call it
maintenance and just staying up to speed with changes on the platform as well as
expansion into more of the Tesla vehicles.
That's kind of what we'll see over the next year.
Okay, that's great.
And I guess this kind of maybe brings a couple of things together.
You're talking about not just expansion of your business, but like one of the areas
you're trying to work on more is community.
And I actually am involved kind of with the central Oregon Land Rovers off
-roading group here.
Obviously not really EV focused, but is that something that you're looking to do
on the community side is looking to kind of do even maybe not like longer trips,
but even kind of day.
Rivian or other kind of focused vehicle off -road trips or even just EV focused
off -road trips to maybe build awareness or kind of get the name out there more.
Because I found that to seem like it's a really effective way for people in kind of
your area to get the name out there and definitely get those kind of adamant
customers that want to really return for specifically your products.
Yeah, so we work a lot with the clubs, the Rivian Clubs of America, both at the
national level.
Those folks have all been great supporters and customers, as well as the individual
local clubs.
The club in Texas just did an event that we sponsored here in the Bay Area.
There's folks in New York.
Basically, yeah, nationally, there have been a lot of events that we've supported.
There are also a handful of off -road schools that use Rivians.
And so we've been fortunate enough to connect with them and they've become
customers and advocates for our products.
And so, yeah, really continuing to engage with the community.
We're owners just as much as we are contributors and suppliers.
And so we want to continue to...
participate as well as learn from the community to figure out how we can
continue to better serve them and support them.
No, that's all great.
and kind of awesome to hear because I think that that has been an area that I
don't know.
I feel like over the last five years, there has been such a, and maybe it's like
a unintentional kind of outgrowth of COVID.
I feel like there has been a much larger interest in overlanding and kind of off
-roading, almost like a rebirth.
I feel like, I feel like it's always been a thing, but I just feel like the, and
maybe just personal experience.
I just feel like there's been such a growing interest that we just haven't seen
for awhile.
and going to kind of where you're based.
I'm really curious, like in the Bay Area, I lived down in Palo Alto actually for a
little bit, but I'm kind of curious, like for you, where are some of your favorite
trails or like best areas to go to to go off road and kind of get away from things?
Yeah, you know, it depends on how long we're going to go for.
Hollister is great because it's right there.
Yeah, Carnegie's nearby.
There are a variety of, you know, SBRAs and OHV sites that are accessible and a
good time.
Personally, I'm a big fan of the Sierras.
So, you know, anywhere from Lone Pine to Tahoe.
There's great stuff.
Death Valley is, yeah, I've got a soft spot for Death Valley.
There's some great trails out there.
Infrastructure, that kind of comes back to the unique aspects of off -roading in an
electric vehicle.
And so it's been a learning process, particularly over the last couple of
years.
Luckily, the charging networks, particularly in California, are getting
more expansive.
But even then, there's still areas,
If you're out in Arnold, which is a small town, kind of, yeah, inland a ways kind of
on the way towards Tahoe ish.
There it's kind of a charging desert and there are a lot of good trails out there.
You know, I, it's funny that you mentioned the COVID thing because that's kind of
what reinvigorated my interest in four wheeling.
I grew up kind of stealing or borrowing my dad's truck going four wheeling, you know,
for,
years.
And then more recently, you know, when COVID hit, I was big into camping and
backpacking, but campgrounds started to get closed down.
And so, you know, I kind of turned to my wife and I said, you know, like,
campgrounds be damned, we're getting out into nature.
And so I bought an old XJ Jeep.
It was, yeah, it was, it was one of the more interesting and also one of the more
ramshackle vehicles I've ever owned, but it was great.
got us out there and that kind of then continued on into the R1 ownership and
things like that.
And yeah, it's been awesome.
Yeah, I'm kind of like I think that's been one of my things lately is a lot of the
trips we've done are kind of day trips and I'm definitely looking to do more longer,
kind of few day, if not more extensive trips or even doing just a long road trip
across the country and then kind of having a couple, multi -day kind of, detours here
and there.
But it's interesting.
You mentioned the infrastructure side a bit because.
I think a lot of people talk about that.
I think in general, EV charging has come massively from where it was a decade ago.
And I mean, DC fast charging wasn't even a thing pretty much a decade ago.
And now where we are today and you go by like I -5 and pretty much any of the major
corridors, especially for kind of passenger vehicle EVs, that's not a
problem.
But being based here in central Oregon, really within the last year, actually both
Tesla and Rivian have expanded their charging options, especially north and
south.
you're going west, but you had east of here being in Bend.
There really isn't much until you hit Boise.
And so that is kind of interesting when it's looking at Rivian, one of the cool
things I've thought they've done, obviously have kind of maybe slowed down
on the DC fast chargers, but they offered a lot of level two charging and kind of
working with the national parks and getting more places for that, which I
think is kind of the perfect balance.
You really don't necessarily need DC fast charging.
You just need more plentiful and reliable level two charging in a lot of these
national parks and other areas like that.
I mean, I'm just kind of curious, has that been anything that with what you do and
kind of your background working in Riviera and others, is that going to come up as
far as like a partnership opportunity of like trying to look at areas to kind of
help extend and maybe speed?
the charging opportunities even through kind of sponsored or advertised ways add a
lot more kind of off -road opportunities.
Yeah, you know, I have a number of friends on both, I guess you could say, on the
Supercharger team, or you know, still, as well as Destination Charging, and as well
as at Rivian on their waypoint team and their RAND team, and I think both of
their, yeah, and each of them, you know, they're kind of often under the same
umbrella.
But each kind of has a different mantra or different methodology that they have
pursued to building out those charging networks.
And so, you know, DC fast charging, you're looking at corridors between spots of
where you're going to be camping.
But I think for those overnight lodging, I think that there's an opportunity there
for partnerships with campsites.
It would be great to see, you know, more national parks as well as US Forest
Service campgrounds.
to have integrated charging.
I personally prefer more backcountry camping and four -wheeling.
And so having a 30 -amp charger at a campsite is luxury, which is great.
But I think the opportunity to see more level two charging at campgrounds is
definitely an opportunity that needs to be capitalized on.
Well, it's kind of interesting to talk about that too, especially when you start
getting the more off road and really kind of making your own path sort of EV
adventures.
And there have been some really wild and interesting, there's still pretty early
type, but kind of solar roof mount things that I've seen for a couple different EVs
that essentially do spread out and kind of unlock to anywhere from one to two
kilowatts of solar, which is a decent, I mean, it's not.
of solar, I mean for portable, yeah.
if you're gonna be like camp there or something it obviously will kind of cover
whatever usage you're gonna use for your Water and some other stuff and maybe
recharges the battery a little bit, but I'm kind of curious I'm sure as someone
personally who's been in the EV space like one of the first things you get her asked
about are kind of Why don't you put a solar panel on it?
and I'm just kind of curious being on now the off -road and the
side that you're on selling these products, I'm sure you get a lot of
questions around kind of products around that or how has that been?
Yeah, you know, it's that conversation has been the same since I since I was at
Tesla.
You know, at first it was road trips pre -supercharger, right?
How are you going to get to how are you going to go on a road trip?
And so it's and it's really difficult to kind of convey it in a way that sinks in
and registers with people until they like until you actually like try it and own it.
Then if you really understand the kind of
how overblown a lot of the range anxiety is.
You know, four -wheeling, we'll go out for a couple days out in the backcountry and
when you're sitting there camping, you're not consuming a lot of power, even if you
do have, you know, string lights hooked up and, you know, an inductive cooktop and,
you know, all these other things that are great luxuries to be able to have and run
off your truck, you still don't use that much.
And then when you're rock crawling, you don't consume
that much energy, you'll spend a whole day out in Hollister and use under a hundred
miles or, you know, I'm sure somebody's going to blast me for an inaccurate
statistic there, but you'll use significantly less mileage than you would
expect.
It's kind of the only situation it seems like where your power really goes is if
you're doing a lot of sand stuff and then and obviously then you're going to.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, high speed or even just kind of mess around the sand.
But even then, you're right.
Like the majority of the time, especially rock crawling stuff, it uses definitely
some.
But the Delta is.
pretty small compared to what you think it'd be, especially as opposed to like
doing highway driving or something.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I mean, we've gone to King of Hammers the last couple of years and that's way out,
you know, in Johnson Valley.
And there's this last year we towed a trailer as well.
And so, you know, I would say that that is the only, the only time when range anxiety
has become a thing is that combination of middle of nowhere and towing.
That said, you know, Optima has been great.
Optima batteries has been great about.
providing charging out there.
They had this whole hydrogen powered DC fast charging setup this last year.
So we're able to continue charging.
Even then though, I think you could still do a night or two out there and still be
fine.
But yeah, I mean, as long as you plan, if you're just going four -wheeling or
overlanding, if you're in the back country, you're going to use significantly
less than you think you're going to use, although it's nice to plan with a buffer.
But yeah, you also get, you know, regen back and so you're going to get that back
as well.
And so, yeah, I think it's just a, it's a learning experience and just, you kind of
have to do it in order to fully internalize it.
You know, you can, you can talk about it and have it register, you know, but it
doesn't actually register until you, you're, you do it yourself.
Now, and I think I even kind of realize how fruitless like usually adding solar to
any sort of UV is, but there have been just, I feel like it's only within like
the last six months and I still don't know how practical it is, but there are now
these stationary things that essentially a roof mounted that fold out and now you're,
it's still not a whole lot, but the fact you're kind of getting around the two
kilowatt mark, you're like, okay, that is a decent amount of solar.
And that could actually, if you're not driving far, or if you're like based,
camp for a couple days.
It's probably a net positive.
Yeah.
Well, exactly.
Exactly.
I would say, when we first started going out and it was a concern, I was like,
okay, well, what if we run out of range?
And so I found myself driving on conserve.
I'd be on these dirt roads, just, traction was mostly there, but probably could have
been in a different drive mode, but just for the sake of using as little
energy batteries and blah,
yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I'm like, as someone who's been in the space for so long, I realize it's
really not necessary, but I still kind of fall for it every now and then.
Like, God, that does seem kind of cool just to get, you don't have a generator,
you don't have to have anything.
If you have like just enough solar, it doesn't need to be a lot.
And especially when the battery's that big, yeah, you could be like posted out,
especially like in Southeast Oregon or anywhere in the Southwest.
It's like, you could be out there for a week at least.
Yeah, I think it's definitely that, you know, that.
Yeah, exactly.
It's it's it's kind of, you know, it's it's it's the dream.
That's the ideal scenario.
Unlimited gas from that, you know, falling from the sky.
No, exactly.
Well, OK, so let's I realize we're kind of coming up a little bit here, but when
you're looking at some of these products that you're trying to offer for electric,
have there been any?
I think one, it's just such a new thing to have, obviously electric four by four is
that anything is kind of a great option.
But are there any things that you're most excited about or like you really want to
maybe take to the next level for specifically an electric four by four?
You know, suspension systems, I think, are an opportunity there.
Obviously, focusing on Rivian specifically right now with the air suspension, which
is fantastic.
The truck is kind of a Swiss Army knife of performance, which is great.
Great road handling as well as off -road handling.
That said, long travel suspension, higher ground clearance, and things like that
does provide
an opportunity, particularly for more aggressive off -road or higher speed.
I think we're starting to see more and more motorsports involvement in the off
-road space.
I think things like short track racing and other more off -road, Pike's Peak is
fantastic, but it would be great to see more off -road involvement.
got paved, I think would be like the perfect ride.
Yeah, yeah.
a Rivian.
I know there was definitely a Cybertruck at the Mint 500 this year.
I don't know as far as actual competition wise, but you know, just having the
representation there.
And I think from there, you'll start to see more, you know, those suspension
systems that are capable of supporting, you know, higher impact, longer travel,
higher performance, those sorts of things are something I'm really excited about.
You know, that's a great topic actually, because there's so many people, even
coming from the non -EV space, like the defender world, everyone's all about that
hard axle, like traditional kind of stuff, like in the old Jeeps and obviously the
Land Rovers.
And I'm a big fan of them personally, but what starts getting really interesting is
there's a couple of companies, one in particular of Australia called airbag man
that, which is just such a funny name, but they have an airbag system, airbag ride
system for a hard axle.
And it is truly,
not just about like delivering a better on -road experience but what it can do off
-road without impacting your travel and stuff is unbelievable.
It's obviously not the cheapest thing and I think there's a lot of kind of
predisposition and understandably so from some of the history of like air ride
systems being really finicky or breaking and then you think well semis use them
there's a reason.
But either way, people start kind of getting scared off because it does seem
like it's such a much more, there's obviously an electronic component to it.
There's just the air unit unto itself.
And so that's really interesting to hear that.
And it makes sense that there'd be an opportunity for that, but you look at the
Rivian, you look at the Cybertruck, both of them have air suspension setups.
What do you think are like the easiest ways?
to get those big ones.
Is it really just increasing the ride height, increasing the ability for travel?
I've heard from some on the Rivian, I'd be curious on your take on this, is the air
tank itself kind of could be bigger and is like that something you could see as even
being a replacement too.
Yeah, you know, obviously there's trade -offs with raising suspension.
Drag goes up significantly.
You're going to lose a lot of range.
And so I think for an off -road or motorsports application, those sorts of
lifted or long travel suspension systems are more kind of like traditional shock
and spring setups can be a bit, or yeah, are great options.
You're seeing
Airbags Continental makes a great product.
And so, you know, you're seeing things like airbags on an air ride on, yeah, the,
the cyber truck and on the Rubian, because you're trying to be that jack of all
trades, right?
You know, you want to, you want a truck that you can take to the track and then
you can take off road and you can't do both of those things unless you have the
dynamic suspension, you know, off, you know, in an airbag, or other, yeah, other
dynamic suspension.
So.
Personally, it's a longevity thing as well as a complexity thing.
Trail repairs, being a Land Rover owner, I'm sure you're all too familiar with the
hunting down leaks on lines and things like that.
But yeah, I think it's a great product.
It's a great configuration.
I just think.
for yeah, that sort of more high performance.
You start to have to, there are trade -offs that have to be made and that's kind
of, yeah.
well that kind of just remind me of something I does the Rivian does it have
an electronic does it have a sway bar or is it essentially kind of like a because
of the fluid system that it has the hydraulic system it has it kind of creates
like a fake sway bar essentially
Yeah, so it has hydraulic roll control.
It's very similar to some of the systems on McLarens and basically compensates.
Yeah, it's really cool.
And again, that's another one of those things where it's like, okay, you want to
make something that's very dynamic and performant, but at the same time, then you
wind up with additional complexity.
And so I think in terms of the future of overlanding and off -road, particularly
truly off -road capable EVs,
I think simplicity is something that we're going to need to see more of.
Also in terms of affordability, the Rubian's a fantastic vehicle, but there
are a lot of bells and whistles.
And so I think some of that could be stripped out for the sake of just
durability, longevity, and obviously affordability.
Well, it's funny you should say that because I was going to throw out possibly
a product idea for you guys.
If you do go down the path of cyber check, because one of the interesting things
about it, just with the research I've been doing, kind of looking into it, is it does
have a sway bar, but it doesn't have a physical or electronic disconnect.
Just some of the reviews I've been watching lately.
It's like obviously now that the locker updates kind of gone out It's definitely
improved pretty significantly its off -road ability, but the travel issue is
kind of still it's not bad But that could be an area would be better.
I've just be curious on Because I feel like it wouldn't be even if you did a
manual one That would be a pretty big improvement and there might be that may be
a quick off -road win for people who are looking to do that with their Cybertrucks
No, it's a great point.
I think lockers are probably a pretty transformational change.
But then independent suspension does have its limitations in terms of travel and
being able to disconnect that sway bar would go a long ways.
And you know, I'm not as familiar with the electronic systems like on Toyota.
I mean, obviously that's kind of big one with a lot of the land crews, the newer
land cruisers and the forerunners as they just don't electronic one.
Do you know if that would ever be easy to do as like a third or essentially
aftermarket retrofit option?
Not even Cybertruck, because I just don't think I've even seen that.
I could be wrong.
I just don't think I've even seen that many in for other vehicles.
Yeah, you know, I think, yeah, if I recall correctly, there are some reliability
issues that Jeep owners have had with, yeah, with Rubicon and just having that
sway bar disconnect.
I think a lot of folks actually have deleted it.
But yeah, you know, with the right platform, I think a retrofit is not out of
the question, but I think, yeah, the cost associated with it as opposed to something
that's manual.
might not be worth the trade off.
for sure.
Interesting.
Well, no, I really appreciate this conversation.
And this has really been just kind of a fun area to talk about that I'm excited to
see grow more.
And I think honestly, it's been an area, especially if you're on the West Coast,
that
I think a lot of people I talk to, it's part of the reason they've kind of held
off on going to EVs is maybe they maybe they're not a traditional Jeep or some
other kind of driver, but they have a Subaru or something because it has the
ground clearance and has a little more of at least the adventure ability that you
really haven't seen until the entry of Rivian.
And like we've kind of talked about as of now, at least there's still a bit of a
price issue.
So seeing more opportunity and just kind of future products coming out to help with
that, I think such a great thing.
there's anyone that's kind of looking to reach out to you or learn more about your
product, what's the best way to kind of get in contact with you or like learn more
about Electruck 4x4?
Yeah, and folks are welcome to email me directly, brenton at Electruck4x4 .com.
There's always the website, Electruck4x4 .com.
We're on a number of social outlets.
We're pretty well engaged.
The door is always open, live chat, any of those things.
Yeah, very accessible and happy to engage with folks about their trucks, about just
the industry.
or yeah, the hobby or passion for trucks and off -road as well.
And I think that's actually something to mention.
Did you say before our conversation, you'll be at SEMA this year?
Are there any other events that you'll be at, you know, just yet that maybe if
people want to talk to you or meet with you in person?
Yeah, let's see.
So, yeah, I've been going to SEMA for a while.
I'm not sure if I'll make it this year.
I'm gonna try.
Same thing, King of Hammers.
We've gone in the last few years.
I'll try and go again this year.
Let's see.
There are a couple EV Expos we'll be going to as well.
Yeah, I would say, you know, if folks are in the Bay Area, definitely shoot me a
note.
I'm also out in Phoenix from...
you know, pretty regularly.
Otherwise, yeah, just email and all that other stuff.
Happy to, happy to engage with folks.
That's great.
And thank you so much for coming on today, Brenton looking forward to kind of just
seeing the company grow and talk with you more about this space specifically.
So we'll definitely have to have you on soon.
Thank you so much.
Chase.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Thank you for tuning into this episode of Grid Connections.
We hope you enjoyed our conversation with Brendan Murray, the founder of electric4x4
.com.
It was fascinating to learn about Brendan's background, the genesis of
electric4x4, and the innovative products they offer for off -road EVs.
We hope you found insights on the current and future EV models covered by
electric4x4, as well as the growing aftermarket industry for off -roading EVs,
both informative and inspiring.
If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to share it with at least
one of their listener who you think would appreciate the insights as well.
And don't forget to leave a positive review on our podcast page.
Your feedback helps us to continue bringing you engaging and valuable
content.
Thanks for tuning in and until next week, this is the Grid Connections podcast
signing