Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business.
I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights
from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry.
Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the
strategies that make an impact.
Let's get started.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Welcome back to The Chemical Show.
Today I am speaking with Jennifer Dusen, who is the Chief Procurement
Officer at Lyon Del Bassell and Danielle Warnock, who is the senior
manager of Global Carbon Business Strategy at noon and more importantly.
Both of them represent together for sustainability.
We're gonna learn a little bit more about what that is.
Jen is the president of TFS and Chairs the steering committee, and
Danielle is the regional lead for TFS.
And so both of them are here today to talk about what is TFS,
what is sustainable procurement,
why it matters, and more so ladies,
welcome to the Chemical Show.
Speaker: Thank you for having us.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah.
Excited to have you.
So I'm gonna start with Jen.
Tell us a little bit about your origin story and how you got to
where you are in the chemical industry and in your current role.
Jennifer Jewson: so from a personal perspective, um, absolutely I can share.
So I've been in the chemical industry actually almost 30 years,
which is a amazingly long time.
Uh, I'm a chemist by training actually, and moved over into the commercial area.
And I've had several roles within our organization, whether it is.
On the sell side, you know, or know, supply chain, et cetera.
I moved over to procurement in the last three years.
I took over as CPO, and it's a really, you know, it's an exciting time for, I think
our industry in general, you know, as we look at how we manufacture things today
and doing it very differently than before.
So this, this level of innovation, and for someone like me who originally
came from r and d, it's a very.
It's very interesting.
So for me, a natural progression for me was to find other areas where
I could have impact and influence specifically in the sustainability space.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: I love it.
That's great.
Danielle, how about you?
How did you get started in the chemical
industry into where you are
today?
Danielle Warnock: yeah.
Really similar background to Jen.
So my background is in chemical engineering.
I started in r and d as well.
And I really kind of moved through.
I did not start in the chemical industry.
I started in the industrial gases industry so I would say close cousins.
And I've held various roles in different types of design engineering,
before moving into supply chain.
And so I spent about six and a half years, in different roles in procurement.
Somehow sustainable procurement found me and it was a really
exciting, I think, pivotal turn.
So still working in supply chain, really understanding how the value
chain works, and looking at those commercial, commercial aspects, but
adding sustainability, here at noon.
And so I did that for three and a half years, which is how I found TFS as well.
Um, and now in my current role.
Um, looking at really how do we integrate sustainability and carbon
reduction opportunities into our day-to-day business decisions where
it makes sense for us the most.
Uh, so it's really exciting to, to look at how, like Jen mentioned, how
the industry is changing and how we're evolving and how certain buzzwords like
sustainability, even the definition of sustainability has changed since
I've become part of this world.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah, I love that.
And I think you're right.
I think we're absolutely at, at a transformational inflection point in the
industry, and sustainability is one of these areas that I, you know, I started
hearing about it 20 years ago and I had no stinking idea what it map like I don't.
I don't get it.
Like I just don't get it.
And then certainly in the 2020s it feels like we've reached peak hype and now
we're getting back to reality because it is part of our longevity of our
industry, the world, business, et cetera.
So, let's just talk a little bit about together for sustainability,
because I know that some people may not be aware of the organization.
Jennifer Jewson: Yeah, I'd be, I'd be happy to start with that.
So.
I think Danielle and I will both agree we have a passion for that organization
because it is so unique and so special.
And why I say that is, you know what?
What together for sustainability is, is really, it.
It's, it's an industry alliance with over 50 pet chem companies.
And if you think the about the spend that we touch in a given year a
collective, we probably touch, you know, over $500 billion of spend.
So when you, when you have us together thinking about things, we
really have impact and influence.
Why I think it is so incredibly special is you look at the pet chem industry.
When I first started, we never talked to each other, right?
Because we were so worried about antitrust and you know, we were coached so much.
Don't talk about product and don't talk about price, but sustainability
is this topic where you absolutely, one, have to collaborate, but now
have the ability to collaborate right as we, as we work together.
So for me, I think TFS, the folks come in.
We may touch the chemical industry a little bit differently here and there.
and we all realize that there's not gonna be a perfect answer for everything, but
we all know that we have to make progress.
And so therefore we've gotta figure out what is that, what is that middle ground
where we can make sure that people.
Truly understand what we're trying to do from moving the needle from
a sustainability perspective.
And so the only way you can do that is if you are this industry alliance.
And I always say we do together what we cannot do alone.
Which is why I think this organization is an incredibly special one.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah, I really like that.
What inspired your companies to get involved?
So, you guys have obviously been involved for quite a while, but I, you know,
must your company must see something that says, yeah, this is worthwhile.
'cause Jen, I'm with you.
I, you know, I grew up in this era where you weren't allowed to say boo
to competitors, much less collaborate inside of an industry group.
I think some of that had always happened, but,
You know, what really prompted the, and inspired your companies, maybe Danielle,
do you have a, can respond to
that?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Jen hid it really well, I think with describing TFS and, and really
leveraging the, power in numbers.
And so.
With N on here, we have three major pillars of sustainability.
Looking at environmental performance, looking at safety,
and looking at sustainable growth.
And really it's how do we operationalize and make actions in these areas.
And TFS really this peer to peer organization in numbers where we can
leverage making like scaling impact is really where we saw that opportunity.
The, so not only can TFS offer tools and community, but it's really like
we're shaping the tools that we can use to really drive progress in this area.
And so that's really one of the, the key drivers for Nuon becoming a member
back in, uh, back in April of 2023.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: That's great.
So obviously TFS operates as a member driven initiative, right?
So, um, across cutting across companies.
Jen, you referenced 50 petrochemical companies.
How does this really work?
'cause it's hard to create, alignment sometimes inside your own
company, much less across companies.
And yet, TFS has obviously been very successful in, um, its organization
in the initiatives it's taking out, guidelines and practices as
we talk about, uh, sustainable procurement across the industry.
Jennifer Jewson: why is it successful?
I think, so we at lined ell, we really, you know.
We have clear, just like Danielle was saying, for ion, we have clear
goals and objectives of what we wanna do from a sustainability standpoint.
And if you think about why does TFS work so well, it is a collection of
companies that are very like-minded.
So you do have people that already have, you know, very public
goals that they wanna achieve.
They want to be leading edge.
And so I think that helps it to, to, to give them momentum.
So if you have people that are
like-minded, understand that it's a very complex problem to solve
and really wanna lean
in and do
it, I
Speaker: Okay.
Jennifer Jewson: that's really what
helps it.
I will also share too, that these types of alliances, and it's maybe
not the most exciting part to talk about governance matters, right?
Like how do you operate, right?
And so, tFS office is incredibly well organized and driven to help
us make sure that we can make the most of everybody's time, that we
are very thoughtfully executing, and so we have multiple work streams.
I think companies can lean into work streams, differentially, depending on
what's most important to them, but, but we've aligned on what those are
and we make sure that we are making progress and the folks that are there.
know, You will have folks that are a little more
sophisticated than others, right?
Because they've been added a little bit longer.
Same for line ell.
We joined in 21.
We are leaps and bounds ahead of where I thought we would be.
And it's because the fact that you have, you have folks that are
very sophisticated in these work streams that want to help you.
So, so I do think, one, you've got the leaders that are pushing the boundaries
so that we are doing really good things, but then they're also so collaborative
that as you join, they help get you up to speed a lot faster and make a
a tremendous amount more progress.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah, I think that's really great.
And as you say, governance is key, especially to, you know, manage
antitrust concerns and also to be effective because you know, it's
a choice for companies to be.
Part of an organization like this, obviously there's a lot of business
benefit, but it's also, you want, when you join, you want to be effective
and know that it's gonna be effective.
So, so I'm going to take us back one step a little bit and let's just talk
about sustainable procurement what is it, because this is kind of the center point
of what we're doing here today, and yet
people may not fully understand what it is and what it
means.
Speaker: Yeah, I think, um, you know, I think that if you ask five different
people you might get five different definitions of what sustainable
procurement might be, depending on what might be the hot topic.
At hand, but it's really thinking long term how decisions in our supply chain
and our value chains affect the people, the planet and profit of a company.
Um, and it's really how do we build resilience in our supply chains?
How do we reduce risk and how do we, how do we optimize and
opportunity and growth, um, in a, in a sustainable and ethical manner?
And where TFS really helps with that, again, is looking at.
That peer-to-peer model looking at different types of tools where we can
standardize and optimize our thought processes to really take action with our
suppliers and, and engage and collaborate.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah.
And is this about and measuring?
Greenhouse gas emissions, um, logistics things.
I guess there's, it's, is it, does it tie like to the uns, is it 23 practices, which
include people and these other things?
Or how does it all tie together?
Jennifer Jewson: It, it does.
It, it it does.
And so I, I think, it does tie to that and it does it touch, it touches
multiple areas like Danielle was saying.
So I think, you know, if you think about, we try and figure out what are
the big problems we're trying to solve.
One is making sure our suppliers that we work with have the same ambitions
that we do, and it could be on how they manufacture, how they treat their people.
It's a number of facets.
know, I think about economies of scale instead of 50 member companies going
to the same supplier and asking the same questions over and over again.
now we have it coming out from eight an organization asking questions,
and so I think it makes it.
Easier for the, the suppliers to work with us.
It helps us to align ambitions with us on, so one, are they
trying to do all the right things?
I think, you know, product carbon footprint.
So CO2 reduction is very important too, and it's incredibly complex.
So you think about Scope one, scope two, scope three.
Scope three is usually our largest footprint for our companies.
Right?
So for lined El Acel, I think it it, to this point, our Scope three footprint
is somewhere around 78 to 80% of our
overall footprint.
It's.
Big, right?
And so,
and
it's complicated, right?
Because you're bringing all these different raw materials and things into
your system from many different suppliers.
So again, that's where I think matters and consistency matters.
There is still always gonna be a little bit of variability,
but I think where we can drive consistency, at least to a acceptable
level is gonna be very important.
Because why at the end of the day, we wanna be able to say, this is my baseline.
I'm going to show you customer what I am doing to make it better.
And it go, it does drive back to exactly what Danielle said
earlier, and that is the value proposition because it's not free.
And the things that we do as a chemical industry are very hard to abate.
We're energy intensive.
And so I think it's important.
It allows us this opportunity to truly.
to our customers how we do what we do, because they don't necessarily know.
Right.
They know that they order something and it comes to their door.
But the process behind all of that, they don't necessarily, and nor do
they need to know all of it, but they need to understand kind of the,
what I would call the big steps to, to get to a more greener solution.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah.
You know, it strikes me interesting and I know that TFS is a lot about sustainable
procurement, and yet your companies both are sellers of chemical products, often
to other chemical companies, um, and often to final product producers that
are, you know, whether they're packaging, whether they're formulating, et cetera.
do you pull through some of these learnings into your sales team?
or do you, is it still too early yet?
'cause you guys are both pretty young in your
TFS journey.
Um,
Speaker: Yeah, I, I could speak a little bit on behalf of Nuon.
So, um, you know, I think we're probably not unique in this, but, the, you,
know, your sustainability goals and your targets that comes from the top.
And there's a lot of different functions and organizations across the company
that need to work together to be able to meet those targets and goals.
And sustainable procurement is one of those key functions, especially
in the area of Scope three.
But in order to make impacts in Scope three, one person, scope
three is another company Scope.
And so, as you reduce emissions in your Scope one and two as direct
emissions for your company, you're therefore helping your customers reduce
their scope three as they buy up.
So, really across the value chain, we're also closely interconnected regardless
of really whether you're B2B or you're selling directly to customers, we all have
to make these changes, um, to be able to.
To progress forward.
And the way that Jen, you know, Jen hit on talking about how Scope Three makes up
the majority of our emissions right now.
Well, if you think about it five years from now, as companies reduce their scope
ones, whether that's to meet regulations or to meet their own internal targets,
and , then our share of Scope three is just going to continue to grow and those
complexities will continue to grow.
But therefore we'll also start to reduce in those areas as
scope one and two reduces.
So it's all very interconnected and procurement is really, it's
a pivotal, it's a pivotal piece of making, making those changes.
But the, all of the different functions across the company need to be able to,
to work together to meet those goals.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah, makes a
Jennifer Jewson: I and, and May, sorry.
Maybe one thing to add to that too that I think is very important is that of our
suppliers are also our customers, right?
And so there is this interconnectivity that we see and, and I think
Danielle said it very well, I think sustainable procurement is one
piece of the puzzle, but how you communicate across an organization is.
very important.
And so I'm gonna make a pitch for one other thing with TFS, and
that's our TFS Academy, right?
We have learnings that people to understand sustainability and
really learn through those modules.
What we've done at LyondellBasell, we, we've taken a lot of those
learnings and we make sure.
That the, that the same messaging is very seamless to our customers as well.
So we are speaking and using the same terminology and making
sure we're educating across the board because, you know.
At the end, you really have to make sure that you've got really good visibility
to the end-to-end value chain, right?
Because our customers so let's, a lot of what we do is B2B, but we've gotta
make sure our customers are talking to their customers in a very similar light.
As we look at how does value transfer down that end-to-end value chain?
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: it's, it's complex.
And I even just think about when you guys talk about Scope three
and Jen, you talk about 78 to 80%, which is, yeah, that makes
Jennifer Jewson: Okay.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: 'cause if I
Jennifer Jewson: Yeah.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Draw a box around my household, personal scope
three emissions have to be more than 80%.
I don't know what they are.
Um, I mean, I know there's tools out there that'll do the math for you, but it's
like, yeah, if we just look at it, all of, it's about how we procure, how we utilize
sustainably at a corporate level, at a personal level, and across industries.
so I'm gonna, you started talking about the academy and you, you've also
talked about how, frankly, how quickly you guys have both gotten up to speed.
Let's talk about what TFS maybe offers for its members and new members.
'cause both of you are, and your companies are actively engaged,
but when, when somebody joins TFS, how do they get onboarded?
What resources are available and what kind of support is there to make?
Their, venture into sustainable procurement effective.
Jennifer Jewson: there are prepackaged things, so like the TFS Academy,
which I think is incredibly helpful so that you are educating folks and
so, and so one of the things that we did for us, and I'm gonna talk about
the other offerings in a minute, but.
We have what we call an ambassador program, so sustainable,
our sustainable procurement.
have folks that sit all through the organization, so we have procurement
people that drive sustainable procurement, but we also have members
of our businesses and supply chain and others that are ambassadors
so that they hear what we hear.
So when they communicate outward to their organizations, again, we're
all in lockstep with each other.
But we do, we have certain goals and objectives, and we all have targets.
So Danielle will have targets for ion, we have targets for tf, uh,
for line elba cell, but how many suppliers we're assessing, right?
And there, there, it's again, I'm gonna go back to governance and structure, right?
So that your data is trust, trustworthy, good data, right?
So.
know, are you assessing your suppliers?
TFS?
We also audit certain suppliers that we think could be potentially at re at risk.
The nice thing about the audits is we work with a supplier.
We don't just say, okay, you have problems.
You need to go fix 'em.
We actually have corrective action plans to say, Hey, here's some
suggestions that could help you so you don't have to reinvent the
wheel, and we're here for you.
We want you to come along with us on the journey.
So.
So there's those things.
The thing that is actually, I think that a lot of us spend a lot of time
on, including probably Danielle, is the product carbon footprint.
Because as we said, Very complex, right?
So, we've worked together to look at, and not reinventing the wheel, but
taking the greenhouse gas protocol and figuring out like how do we create
guidelines, that help people if there are options of how to calculate.
things that maybe make more sense for our industry to drive consistency.
Right.
So, and, and maybe I'll stop on the last piece of it and that is, okay, how do I
calculate my data, which is fundamentally foundationally the most important.
But then how do we figure out how to share the data in a thoughtful way?
And some companies are okay with sharing some of their data, some are not yet.
So how do we, how do we navigate this?
Because I think this is still.
of this is still growing and we're still learning from it.
And again, I think it comes back to it's so great to have collective
organization because it, it allows us to share and decide at the end maybe
what, what we think might make the most sense for us as an organization.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah.
Are you guys able to actually share data or, you know, you talk about
audits, is that something that can be shared across companies inside of TFS
or is it more that it's a standard process
for auditing that gets shared?
Speaker: Yeah.
TFS has, we have our own audit that is performed by verified and
approved third party auditors.
Um, and we ha we go through.
All the different types of data privacy, uh, before any of the suppliers that
are approached go through this audit.
And TFS has a platform that's a shared platform with the TFS community.
So that really, to Jen's point earlier where we're reducing the workload, right?
So.
Lots of us are all interconnected.
Lots of us share similar suppliers.
So if one TFS company asks a supplier to go through an audit, another, they're
not going to have to do it again for another TFS company because it'll be on
a shared platform that is data protected, and goes through the correct antitrust
processes before any data is shared.
So it really does help.
And to, to add on to, to Jen's.
Moving back to the PCF calculations, not only does TFS have the, the PCF
guidelines published, but there's also a data exchange platform called Sea Green.
Um, and that really, it's, it's helping companies create a standardized way
to share this data in a similar.
Format in a similar place.
I think that all of us could probably relate to all the different types of
Excel spreadsheets, through emails, all the different types of NDAs, CDAs
that we need to go through as all of us are maturing in this space and
understand what data is okay to share.
And like Jen said, which companies are not okay to share.
So this platform right now, we're piloting using the platform and are seeing a
lot of, of, of good use cases for it.
So as more companies become familiar with it and share, I think it'll be a really
good way to standardize data exchange, um, and, and try and alleviate some of
those, some of those Excel spreadsheets that we all are just too familiar with.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Well, and I I think that's excellent.
'cause it, it is a challenge and Right, and when and when you're running these
things on Excel or you ask the question slightly differently, who's answering?
How is it answered?
It can get interpreted in a lot of different ways.
And I think just the consistency of standards, consistency of data.
And to your point, let's be efficient with this.
Like we don't need 50 companies.
Asking a supplier the exact same thing.
Ask it once, manage it appropriately, and share appropriately because
it's the same information.
So it seems like the industry and the public, um, and certainly
government is, we're in a period of flux on sustainability, right?
And, and I think of it as we've gone from sustainability with a big s with
these big giant promises, um, down to sustainability with a little s where
it's just about being sustainable and having sustainable practices.
Um, and I, you know, we've even seen across the chemical industry,
Projects getting delayed that had a high sustainability component.
Other things moving forward.
And I think this whole space that we're in a lot right now is a lot around
strategic discipline, doing the right thing, step by step, to get there.
How does this factor into your companies and your work with TFS in terms of, are
your customers still and stakeholders still prioritizing sustainability?
Is this something that you guys are still focused on?
And obviously you're here today and we're talking about it, but, but how, how
has the narrative changed and where is the narrative today around that for you
guys?
Speaker: Yeah, we're really looking at it, you know, from a, a.
Business opportunity and growth perspective, and again, integrating it
into our day-to-day business practices.
You know, sustainability, it, the biggest, the little less, it's
not a trend, it's here to stay.
And again, like we've mentioned, like the definition might change over time, but
it's a, it's future proofing business.
And, you know, if companies are approaching that with the
right mindset, it'll really be a strategic differentiator.
When going out to market, not every market, like you mentioned, there
is some projects that are paused or delayed, but there are new
projects that are coming up to speed.
Um, you know, and so that pipeline I.
think is going to continue to change and evolve.
But regular regulatory pressures are going to continue to arise, um,
and companies are going to have to stand tall and rise to the occasion.
It's really thinking strategically about how do we change or revise our
approach to sustainability to do that in a smart and uh, methodical matter.
Jennifer Jewson: Yeah, and, and I agree with Danielle a hundred percent.
I think playing a long game here, right?
And I think, I think today.
the chemical industry is going through a downturn, which does
make it a lot more challenging.
this will pass.
It's, it's, our industry is cyclical.
It will, it will, it will, we will get back up, up to, to
the upper end of the cycle.
I, I, think too, that.
sometimes you have to go slow to go faster later.
And this may be just part of the maturity process.
This is not an easy problem to solve.
Right.
And regions think about things differently.
So, and most of our companies ship globally, so how do you think about
like, how do we get to this point where we are understanding what are
the rules of engagement for each of the regions to drive these things?
Different governments think differently and all of that, so, I don't consider
this, a negative yes, I, we all wish we were moving a little bit faster.
But I do think this is part, probably part of the maturity process and I agree with
Danielle, it, it will be a differentiator.
We wanna make sure that we, we deserve the right to operate because we are
doing the right things for our customers.
I also think too that, I do a lot of university recruiting and when I go
and talk to the folks about coming into our industry, the first thing
they ask me is about sustainability.
So it is on the hearts and minds of the newer generation that will
become part of the workforce today.
What they don't have is disposable income, but they will, right.
They will, they'll come into the industry.
And so I do think that, as the generations change.
I do think you will see a shift on how people buy.
So I constantly say it's not if it's just when.
And so if it, if it takes us a little longer to get these
projects moving, maybe that's okay.
Um, because you have to understand what is the value proposition at the
end of the day and the risk level.
And, and Danielle said it earlier and I agree a hundred percent on the risk piece.
We are gonna go back to our industry is very hard to abate and very costly.
And if you're really gonna put hundreds of millions of dollars into something,
you gotta be right that you're gonna get something out the other side.
And so if it takes a little bit of time to get to that
maturity level, I think that's.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah, I love that.
And I do think you're right, this, it is a long game and I think some
of the, early promises and goals and, and things that, targets that
were set around sustainability and greenhouse gas reductions, et cetera.
aspirational and yes, and you need to shoot for those aspirations, but
all of a sudden you start realizing, oh, this is really, really hard.
And, and we've moved a long way.
I, um, I spoke with Bonnie Tulley last year from Ivo, I remember one of the
things she said is, you know, in the seventies, clean air and clean water
and the Clean Air Act, which came out.
Think late seventies, early eighties, that was a big deal.
And yet today it's table stakes.
Of course, we focus on clean air and clean water, and then if we look ahead to
where we are today in 2025, we go to 2030.
Of course, sustainability and sustainable practices and
sustainable procurement makes sense.
It becomes table stakes and, and it is a long journey that we're on.
improvement, uh, et cetera, all of that.
So this is, you know, we're, we're kind of wrapping here at the end.
questions.
Question one is, just as it relates to TFS, obviously there's 50
companies, there's room for more.
and, you know, what's your advice to companies that are considering it
and how do they get involved in TFS?
Jennifer Jewson: So I, so we do have a process to join.
And you know, and honestly it is a, it's a, it's a pretty
thorough screening process, right?
Because.
It, it's important for us to make sure that people that want to
join, you know, want to lean in.
And Danielle's a perfect example, right?
They joined in 23, she's already the regional lead.
She's doing great things from her side.
That that is, we want that energy and enthusiasm.
And why is that the case?
It's because it's a member led company.
So it's not about putting the TFS logo on your website.
We really want people, we wanna understand.
mature are you in this process?
What is your ambition?
And really are, are you ready to lean in and really work with us?
Right?
Because that is how we, we make a difference in this, in this organization.
And so, you know, those are the things we ask people.
And so, you know, if you're interested, we'd love to have you and talk to
you about it, but realize like.
You, you have to put the sweat equity into this organization.
You know, because
we're only here today because
of the strength of the, of the member
base.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: I love that.
Speaker: it really is member led and you know, we all have our day jobs
and we all have to react, right?
And we understand what the current environment is with
this, the sustainability word.
But when you come to the, TFS meetings, uh, you know, we do have in-person
annual workshops the energy because.
the the members that.
are part of this organization are so passionate about the topic
and so, they wanna drive change.
And it is a, a safe space with all of the antitrust that's in place to
really have positive conversations and interactions and networking to be able
to come to, to solutions that, you know, might make sense in today's state
to, to be able to make a difference.
And so, you.
know, we actually, we have that event coming up.
And I'm really looking forward to seeing my peers and my colleagues and to be
able to, to have that energy again.
So if there's companies out there that, you know, you have those people in your
organizations that are really passionate about this topic, it is a great outlet
to get involved and make things happen.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Love it.
Love it.
And I think this is actually a great place to wrap.
So thank you.
Um, thank you ladies for joining me today on The Chemical Show.
I've really enjoyed talking with both of
you, learning about you, and learning more about TFS together for
sustainability.
Speaker: Thank you.
so much.
victoria_1_10-09-2025_090526: Yeah, and thanks everyone for joining.
Keep following, keep listening, keep sharing, and we will
talk with you again soon.