Matt Abrahams: Hi, Matt here.
Being put on the spot and having to communicate in the
moment can be really stressful.
In celebration of the two year anniversary of my book, Think Faster, Talk Smarter:
How to Speak Successfully When Put on the Spot, we're going back into our
vault for a Rethinks episode where I speak with Jenny Luna, our original
executive producer, about ways to feel more comfortable and confident
when you have to speak in the moment.
Before we start the episode though, I wanted to quickly share that while
I learned a ton writing the book, I am amazed at how much I continue to
learn from readers all over the world who share their stories and successes
since reading or listening to the book.
Beyond the English edition, the book is now in fifteen other languages.
I thank all of you for taking the time to learn from the book, and I am
thrilled that so many people around the world are working to hone and
develop their spontaneous speaking.
Thank you, and on with the show.
I gotta admit, I'm both excited and a little nervous.
I'm in the hot seat.
Jenny Luna: I'm Jenny Luna.
Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
Today we have a bit of a twist on our normal episode format.
I'm going to sit in the host seat and put Matt in the hot seat.
Matt's new book, Think Faster, Talk Smarter: How to Speak Successfully
When You're Put On The Spot, launches at the end of this month.
So I thought it would be fun to put him in the hot seat and ask him his
thoughts on spontaneous speaking.
Welcome.
Matt, are you ready for this?
Matt Abrahams: I am super excited for this, Jenny.
Thank you.
I'm gonna do my best to think faster and talk smarter.
Jenny Luna: Okay.
Let's get started.
Your new book is on spontaneous speaking.
How do you define that and what made you wanna focus on that for your book?
Matt Abrahams: Throughout my life, I have always been spontaneous speaking.
With the last name, Abrahams, AB, I have always gone first.
So in elementary school, in high school, even in college and graduate school, I was
always the first person asked to speak.
I know what it feels like to
be put on the spot.
And that's really what spontaneous
Matt Abrahams: speaking is all about.
It's about that moment where you are called on to step up and say something.
Maybe it's answering a question, giving feedback in the moment, fixing a mistake
you made, being called on to introduce somebody, or even during small talk.
So spontaneous speaking, if you think about it happens all the time in our
personal lives and our professional lives.
Jenny Luna: I didn't realize this had such personal roots for you, Matt.
I really like that.
And so how did you come to be interested in kind of helping
others with this concept?
Matt Abrahams: About a decade ago, the deans at the business school
came to me with a problem, and the problem was that our incredibly
bright students were panicking and choking in cold call situations.
You know, where the professor says, what do you think?
And you have to respond.
Our students who knew the answers, who were very bright,
could not in the moment respond.
And they asked me, can you help?
As a result of that, I got very interested in exploring how we can
be better speakers in the moment.
And through doing research on my own, looking into other fields, and
collaborating with people here at the business school, but especially with my
colleague from the arts department, Adam Tobin, who's an excellent improviser,
came up with a lot of this content.
Jenny Luna: Interesting.
Okay.
And I know you are famous around campus and out in the world for this six step
methodology on spontaneous speaking.
Can you walk us through those steps?
Matt Abrahams: Famous is a big word, uh, but, uh, I, I've definitely spent
a lot of time talking about this.
The methodology that I've come up with, and that we walk all of our MBA
students through, they can opt in to learn this content, and most of them do.
It's really divided into two
major areas, mindset and messaging.
So we have
Matt Abrahams: to adjust our mindset, and part of mindset is also
dealing with anxiety and listening.
And then messaging is about how we structure our messages,
and then how do we focus them.
On this podcast, we've talked a lot about structure.
We've talked a lot about being concise and clear, and those are all
part of the six step methodology.
Jenny Luna: Yeah, I, we've talked a lot about managing anxiety a
few times on this podcast, we've had a lot of guests talk about it.
You did a whole episode on it a few years ago.
It's one of our more popular episodes among listeners.
Uh, so let's, let's drill down more into the mindset part of your methodology.
Can you help us understand these different shifts that you suggest in a mindset?
And also tell us what you mean when you write in the book about missed takes.
Matt Abrahams: The way we approach communication period, but especially
spontaneous communication, really matters.
There are a couple key mindset shifts I think that we, we should
adopt to feel more comfortable and confident in spontaneous situations.
First is, we often strive for perfection, and I would argue that we should
rather be looking for connection.
On the very first day of the strategic communication class I co-teach,
I have the audacity to say to my students, maximize your mediocrity.
And Jenny, you should see their jaws drop.
These students have never been told to be mediocre, but
here's the logic behind that.
When we strive to be great, when we strive to be right or perfect
in our communication, it actually prevents us from doing it well at all.
And it comes down to a simple issue of cognitive bandwidth.
Think of your brain as a computer.
It's not a perfect analogy, but when you're running your, your laptop or
your phone, and you have lots of apps or windows open, your computer is not
running as effectively as it could.
In, in essence, everything's a little slower.
The same thing is true when you're speaking and you're monitoring
everything you're saying and judging and evaluating it as you're saying
it, or even before you're saying it.
You're not as effective.
So when we dial the volume down, we can actually perform better.
I'm not saying we shouldn't judge and evaluate what we say, we should,
but if we turn the volume down a little bit, we can do it better.
So the whole saying I tell my students on that first day, is maximize
mediocrity so you can achieve greatness.
When we focus on connecting with our audience, delivering a
message that's relevant for them, we can actually do it better if
we're not judging and evaluating.
So that's the first mindset shift.
Connection over perfection.
The second is to see these spontaneous speaking situations as
opportunities rather than threats.
Many of us, when we're put under the gauntlet of Q and A, or asked
for feedback in the moment, we feel like we have to defend our position.
We have to be perfect in the threat of challenge.
And so how do we deal with that?
We get in a very tight body posture.
Our responses are, are curt and short.
Our tone is harsh.
If we see these as opportunities, as the ability to connect,
to expand, to collaborate, it changes completely how we feel.
Now, I'm not naive.
I know people do actually challenge us, but even in those moments,
if we see it as an opportunity to connect, it really changes things.
So we wanna strive for connection over perfection.
We wanna see these circumstances as opportunities.
And then finally, many of us fear making mistakes.
We don't wanna make mistakes.
And as we've talked about on this podcast before, mistakes are ways that we learn.
You, you have to break a few things in order to actually learn and progress.
So I like to encourage people to reframe how they see mistakes.
And, and, you know, in the making of films or television,
they, they do lots of takes.
We've all seen that little clapboard that comes down.
They say, take one, take two.
I think if we see our communication and the, and the things that go
wrong, as missed takes rather than mistakes, it can really help us.
So when a movie director is looking at a particular scene, she might be
asking the actors to do it again and again, different takes, not because any
one take is wrong, but because they're looking for something a little different.
Maybe you do it standing up versus sitting.
Maybe you put a little more emotion in one part versus the other.
So when things don't go the way we want them to, if we see them as a missed
take, just another opportunity to do it differently next time, that feels very
different than having gotten it wrong.
So those three mindset shifts can make a big difference in our communication.
Jenny Luna: I love this concept of turning the volume down,
turning the internal volume down.
And then taking things not as threats, but as opportunities, and then reframing
into a missed take instead of a mistake.
That's great.
When it
comes to structure, I love in your book
Jenny Luna: how you provide series of examples and advice for situations
we find ourselves in like small talk, making an apology, giving a toast, or
an introduction, and giving feedback.
That's a big one.
Um, the one structure that I put into use right away was your pitching structure.
Can you share that with listeners and then give an example of pitching structure?
Matt Abrahams: Sure.
So often we're in these circumstances where we have to sell an idea
or sell a product or a service, and we're put on the spot.
You, you literally get in the elevator with somebody
and they say, what do you do?
And you have to give that elevator pitch, and it can be hard.
As a result of work I've done here at the business school with lots
of entrepreneurs, I developed a four sentence structured pitch.
If you finish these sentence starters, you have a good pitch.
And they are, what if you could, so that, for example, and that's not all.
So if you finish each one of those, it gives you a really tight, clear
pitch and idea of what it is that you are selling, if you will.
So let's say I was explaining to somebody about our podcast, Think Fast Talk Smart,
something that you do amazing work for.
And somebody, let's say I'm in an elevator, or I'm at a small
talk, uh, chitchat situation.
Somebody says, tell me about your podcast.
I would say, what if you could learn to hone and develop your communication
skills, so that you can achieve your personal and professional goals?
For example, you could learn how to be more confident, more persuasive, and
even more creative in your communication.
And that's not all, you'll join a wonderful community of other
people who are also trying to build their communication skills.
Do you hear how just finishing those four sentences really
provides a tight, clear pitch?
It makes it relevant, it makes it impactful, and memorable.
Jenny Luna: I'm sold.
This sounds like a fantastic podcast.
Matt Abrahams: Well, you should listen to it, maybe.
Jenny Luna: Uh, something that we hear time and again from our
guests, and from our listeners, is how well you do with paraphrasing,
being concise and being clear.
You have a chapter in your new book, what you call the F
word of spontaneous speaking.
So can you give us some advice around that
Matt Abrahams: F word for focus, not that naughty word that some
of you were, were talking about.
I think paraphrasing is a critical tool in communication, and one of the
ways that you can be more focused is to make sure that what you're saying is
relevant and targeted to your audience.
Asking clarifying questions and paraphrasing serves as
a tool to help you focus.
So if we are in a conversation and you ask me for feedback, I could jump right
into giving feedback or I might say, I might ask you a question, uh, do you want
feedback about what you said or about what we could do differently in the future?
And that clarifying question helps me focus.
So there's a lot we can do to help focus our messages based on what we do before
we actually provide those messages.
Certainly there are things we can do once we're speaking as well.
I'm a huge fan of trying to eliminate extraneous words or acronyms or jargon.
So really focusing on focusing our messages is critical, especially in
spontaneous speaking because so often we are actually taking people along
the journey of ourselves discovering what we want to say as we say it,
and we say much more than we need to.
Jenny, you've heard me say this many times, but I'll share it again.
My mother has this wonderful saying that gets to the heart of this.
Tell me the time.
Don't build me the clock.
Jenny Luna: Focus is a great segue into my next question.
We've had a lot of guests talk about mindfulness, taking a pause, focusing
on the breath, when we're getting anxious about our communication.
I know that you practiced martial arts and you have for many years, right?
Matt Abrahams: I have decades, yes.
Jenny Luna: So what similarities, I'm curious, do you see between
communication and martial arts?
Matt Abrahams: I love this question and, and thank you for asking.
I don't often share about my martial arts journey, but I, I've been doing
the martial arts for four decades now.
I've, I've studied many, many styles.
I still, uh, participate and teach the martial arts today.
And it, it's been so instructive to me in so many ways.
But in terms of communication, the martial arts teach you to be present,
to respond to what's happening in front of you, to think about how your moves,
or what it is that you do, impacts not just the person in front of you,
but the environment and situation.
And all of those are mirrored in communication.
I am a better communicator because of my martial arts and perhaps a better martial
artist because of my communication.
But they're, they're intimately linked.
I encourage everybody to try to find a physical practice that can
inform our day-to-day interactions and who we are in the world.
And for me, the martial arts have done that.
Jenny Luna: I know you tell a great story about a martial arts
experience you had as a young person.
I'm wondering if you can tell that story again just while we
have more listeners right now.
Matt Abrahams: Thank you, Jenny.
The, perhaps the most embarrassing moment of my entire life happened
when I was a fourteen year old boy.
On the very first day of my freshman year, my English professor had all of us
stand up and tell what we did that summer.
Of course, I went first, as I said, uh, being first row first seat.
And at the end of the day, he came up to me and said, Matt,
you're good at this talking thing.
I need you to go to this speech tournament.
I think every teacher had to send one student from their classes.
So I was his student.
And he said, give a speech on something that's important to you.
So begrudgingly I went.
I put on, you know, I had my dad tie a tie for me.
I was wearing pants that were way too short.
I had grown over the summer.
I show up seven thirty in the morning, giving a speech on the martial arts.
That was important to me then as it is now.
And in the room are forty or fifty people.
The parents of my friends who are judging, my friends, the
girl I liked is in the room.
It's my turn to go.
I'm so nervous.
I am so nervous.
So nervous that I forgot to put on my special karate pants.
If you know anything about the martial arts, the pants you wear are very
loose fitting so you can do kicks.
And that's exactly how I started my speech, with a karate kick.
It got everybody's attention, and it really got their attention, because
when I did this kick, I ripped my pants.
I kid you not, from zipper to belt buckle.
In the first ten seconds of a ten minute speech.
And it is at that moment, and from that moment, that I became fascinated by
the impact of anxiety on communication.
And that's what really motivated me to actually study it and do
everything that I've done, all goes back to that gym on a Saturday
morning as a fourteen year old boy.
So yes, the martial arts had a huge impact on me.
It exposed me to so many things, literally and figuratively.
Jenny Luna: That's a great story and there are so many things that
influence our work that come from our personal lives as an example of that.
Matt, let's take a break from spontaneous speaking and ask
you about hosting this podcast.
I feel very fortunate to be part of our small but mighty team.
And I'm curious how you feel about having completed a hundred episodes.
Matt Abrahams: The first word that comes to mind is gratitude.
It has been a true pleasure to work with you, Jenny, and all the,
the work you do behind the scenes to make this thing a success.
Our colleague Neil, and others, in, in the marketing communication
team is, is fantastic.
But the thing that I'm most grateful for is just the connection that
I and we have with our listeners.
It has been truly a blessing and just amazing to get to know people from all
over the world, from all walks of life, from places I've never heard of, who are
not just benefiting from the podcast, but also connecting to our larger community.
And really helping each other and role modeling some of the
things that we talk about.
I have learned more hosting this podcast from our guests and our audience
members than I ever thought possible.
So when you asked me what do I think about it, how do I reflect on this, it's, it's
really just from a place of gratitude.
It's been awesome.
Jenny Luna: Okay.
Well, I thought we'd end today's show a little bit differently since on a
prior episode, you've answered the questions that you ask all of the guests.
I wanna put you to the test and ask you to think faster and talk smarter.
I'm gonna give you three prompts that reflect some of the situations
that you provide in your new book and ask you to respond.
Are you ready for that?
Matt Abrahams: I am.
And just so everybody knows, I have no idea what Jenny is gonna ask me.
Jenny Luna: Okay.
Well, I treasure feedback.
What is one thing you would suggest that I could do to be a better podcast host?
Matt Abrahams: I'm going to leverage the what, so what now, what structure that I
teach, and for those of you who haven't heard me talk about this, what is the
information, the idea, the product, the service, in this case, the feedback,
the so what is, why is it important?
And the now what is, what could the person do differently or, or what comes next?
So I'm gonna find some constructive thing to say because you asked for it and I know
you truly, uh, accept feedback is a gift.
There are times where you have been looking away in our conversation and it,
for me, it's a little hard because I know you make such intense eye contact always.
So the feedback I would give you in the what is sometimes you look
away when you're asking questions.
When you do that, it makes me feel disconnected.
That's the so what.
So in the future, I would ask that you keep your eye contact on me
or whoever you're interviewing to really help foster that connection
and make it easier on the guest.
Jenny Luna: It sounds like by making more eye contact, we can be more
successful in our communication, and I'm gonna work on that.
Matt Abrahams: Wow, great paraphrase.
Jenny Luna: It takes a lot of listening to be able to do that.
Okay, so we have a new resource we're providing listeners who want to learn
English by listening to our podcast.
How would you pitch that to them?
Matt Abrahams: Alright, so we're gonna try this.
What if you could learn to feel more comfortable speaking in the English
language, so that you can participate in some of your daily and business
interactions more comfortably.
For example, you could learn specific idioms and phrasing that
might help you in situations that you encounter, and that's not all.
You'll be able to enjoy Think Fast Talk Smart episodes even more.
Jenny Luna: Wonderful.
That structure really does work well.
Okay, question three.
The entire Stanford GSB community has come together to celebrate the podcast.
You have to give a toast.
Go.
Matt Abrahams: Oh boy.
So I have a structure I teach in the book.
It's called WHAT.
WHAT for giving toast and tributes.
The W is, why are we all here?
The H is, how are you the person speaking connected.
Then an anecdote or two, that's the A. And then finally the thanking
or the toasting at the end.
So it's WHAT.
So I might say thank you all for being here to celebrate the GSB's Think Fast
Talk Smart hundredth anniversary episode.
I, Matt, am the host of this podcast and just one of, of a small but mighty
team of people that bring this to you.
I remember back, years ago, when we were first thinking of this idea
and brainstorming and wondering, would anybody ever listen, let alone
want to be a guest on the podcast?
And it has been fantastic to see that people actually do wanna
listen and do wanna join us.
So I thank every single one of you for being here, and I thank every
single one of you for being a part of the Think Fast Talk Smart family.
Jenny Luna: Wonderful.
Hear, hear.
And congratulations, Matt, not only to a hundred episodes, but to your new book.
I know we're all looking forward to cracking that open, um, your
passion for communication, and thank you for your concise, clear,
and helpful guidance as always, and I wish you well on the new book.
That was a great conversation and I look forward to many more.
Matt Abrahams: Jenny, thank you so much for all you do for the podcast,
for sitting in and interviewing me.
While this guest seat is pretty comfy, I look forward to getting
back into the host seat soon.
Thank you for listening to this Rethinks episode of Think
Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
To learn more about managing speaking anxiety, please listen to episode 10,
and to work on your spontaneous speaking mindset, please check out episode 112.
This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.
With special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.
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