WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:03.401 --> 00:00:09.421 Jethro Jones: Welcome to Transformative Principle, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading. 00:00:09.961 --> 00:00:11.421 I am your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:11.421 --> 00:00:14.181 You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones. 00:00:35.063 --> 00:00:37.463 Welcome to Transformative Principal. 00:00:37.463 --> 00:00:39.068 I am so excited to have Dr. 00:00:39.068 --> 00:00:41.213 Lane Dillard on the program today. 00:00:41.483 --> 00:00:48.563 She is dedicated over 27 years to transforming schools and empowering leaders to create environments where students thrive. 00:00:49.298 --> 00:01:00.548 She was principal for 18 years and she led a high poverty school from an F to a B on the state report card earning recognition as A-C-L-A-S, banner School, and a National Blue Ribbon School of Excellence. 00:01:00.878 --> 00:01:02.168 And here's the real kicker. 00:01:02.258 --> 00:01:09.368 Under her leadership, all third graders at her school achieved 100% proficiency in reading on state assessments. 00:01:09.368 --> 00:01:15.668 And as we've talked about many times on this show, if kids can read, that's the gateway to all other learnings. 00:01:15.668 --> 00:01:16.508 So it is very. 00:01:16.838 --> 00:01:19.208 Worthwhile for that to be one of the goals. 00:01:19.538 --> 00:01:26.618 Uh, she is a passionate speaker who loves motivating districts, schools, and educators to be the absolute best they can every single day. 00:01:26.978 --> 00:01:35.108 And right now she spends her days, uh, as the edu educational Administrator in the Office of School Improvement with the Alabama State Department of Education. 00:01:35.438 --> 00:01:38.138 So Lane, welcome to Transformative Principal. 00:01:38.138 --> 00:01:38.978 Great to have you 00:01:39.123 --> 00:01:39.903 Dr. Layne Dillard: Thank you so much. 00:01:39.933 --> 00:01:42.243 I'm so excited to be here with you today, Jethro. 00:01:42.453 --> 00:01:44.103 I love your podcast, so super 00:01:44.103 --> 00:01:44.763 excited to be a guest. 00:01:45.713 --> 00:01:48.293 Jethro Jones: I am honored and it means the world to me. 00:01:48.293 --> 00:01:54.743 Every time I can talk to somebody who actually knows what my podcast is, even though it's been around for so long. 00:01:54.743 --> 00:01:58.043 I feel like, uh, every time I talk to someone, I'm like, oh, you know about it. 00:01:58.043 --> 00:01:58.643 That's great. 00:01:58.703 --> 00:02:01.433 Uh, because I've put a lot of energy and effort 00:02:01.433 --> 00:02:01.883 into this. 00:02:01.883 --> 00:02:10.013 So, um, tell me first about this idea of, uh, having a hundred percent of your third graders proficient on a reading. 00:02:10.103 --> 00:02:10.223 I 00:02:10.223 --> 00:02:13.283 mean, that just seems, uh, unreal. 00:02:13.418 --> 00:02:15.908 Dr. Layne Dillard: You know, um, it was our big goal. 00:02:16.298 --> 00:02:20.318 I mean, it was a goal that, I'm gonna be honest, like I love to cast a vision. 00:02:20.348 --> 00:02:22.358 I think as a leader you've really gotta cast this vision. 00:02:22.358 --> 00:02:24.128 You got people to believe that it can happen. 00:02:24.128 --> 00:02:24.188 I. 00:02:25.028 --> 00:02:31.868 But I'm gonna be honest with you, this is one that I cast and was just hoping that maybe that if I set that bar really high, we might come close, you know? 00:02:32.258 --> 00:02:35.108 But I was like, if I set it at like, oh, 90%, I don't wanna do that. 00:02:35.108 --> 00:02:36.968 I don't wanna say we want every single child. 00:02:37.538 --> 00:02:44.103 And the school that I was leading, we were 92% poverty and um, we had a really high special ed population as well. 00:02:44.438 --> 00:02:48.548 That class actually was 37% sped, about 11% el. 00:02:49.028 --> 00:02:49.988 And so. 00:02:50.473 --> 00:02:50.923 Yeah. 00:02:51.133 --> 00:02:54.493 Yeah, we had a really high number in that grade level. 00:02:54.823 --> 00:02:59.143 And so we had been, you know, this was, this was our goal. 00:02:59.143 --> 00:03:00.793 This is something that we wanted to do. 00:03:01.153 --> 00:03:04.603 Um, but you also have to remember, we had a pandemic in the midst of this. 00:03:04.603 --> 00:03:09.103 And so this was, this third grade group was actually the group that were kindergartners. 00:03:09.593 --> 00:03:10.433 During that time. 00:03:10.583 --> 00:03:13.103 So they came through a odd first grade. 00:03:13.103 --> 00:03:14.993 You know, part kindergarten got messed up anyway. 00:03:15.533 --> 00:03:16.733 First grade was strange. 00:03:16.763 --> 00:03:17.663 Second grade wasn't great. 00:03:17.693 --> 00:03:23.123 You know, was second grade was just trying to get them to learn how to actually function together because they had been so socially distanced and things. 00:03:23.453 --> 00:03:25.133 So this was a big deal for us. 00:03:25.133 --> 00:03:29.873 But I'm gonna tell you, I think that thing that I think is the most rewarding about that is that. 00:03:30.263 --> 00:03:32.123 We realize that we just changed lives. 00:03:32.423 --> 00:03:38.693 I mean, when you think that you can read at grade level, at third grade, what we have just done is shifted the trajectory. 00:03:38.693 --> 00:03:43.403 When you look at, you know, um, like generational poverty and just it's things like that. 00:03:43.403 --> 00:03:47.933 A lot of times this child may be the only person in the house that can actually read. 00:03:48.383 --> 00:03:55.373 I mean, when you look at just, they may be in an EL situation where they're the only person that could read English in their house, and we've just shifted everything. 00:03:55.373 --> 00:03:58.673 And so it was so important to us because. 00:03:58.958 --> 00:04:03.188 We just like, if, if we wanna make a difference in these kids' lives, they got to be able to do this. 00:04:03.188 --> 00:04:07.208 And so there were seven schools in the state that, that accomplished that. 00:04:07.208 --> 00:04:15.758 And I cannot tell you how excited we were when we realized we were one of those seven because we don't match up with most of those other schools that pulled that off. 00:04:15.758 --> 00:04:17.498 We don't have the same kind of demographic. 00:04:17.498 --> 00:04:23.528 And so it was super important and it, it was, it was really, it's just like I said, um, just because we know we change lives. 00:04:24.553 --> 00:04:24.943 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:04:24.973 --> 00:04:25.933 That's, that's awesome. 00:04:25.933 --> 00:04:32.228 And, and that really does change lives because it makes it possible for kids to do anything else and. 00:04:33.183 --> 00:04:40.503 It removes those generational barriers of, of anything that could be preventing them and, and opens the door for their success. 00:04:40.503 --> 00:04:42.483 And I think that's really amazing. 00:04:42.903 --> 00:04:46.383 So tell me about how you actually did that 00:04:46.383 --> 00:04:49.893 though, because it, it's easy to look back and be like, yeah, we did that. 00:04:49.893 --> 00:04:50.523 That's great. 00:04:50.523 --> 00:04:52.653 But you know, how did you do it? 00:04:52.713 --> 00:04:57.843 Lots of obstacles obviously, but what frameworks and systems did you have in place to make that happen? 00:04:58.163 --> 00:05:09.563 Dr. Layne Dillard: So one of the things that we did, so when I first came to, um, the school, we had an, um, after I had been there a year when the first State report card came out and we had a 51 on the state report card. 00:05:09.563 --> 00:05:10.613 So that's terrible. 00:05:10.613 --> 00:05:16.913 I mean, that, that's an f And we were already working really hard when we had that f It's not like we weren't working hard. 00:05:16.913 --> 00:05:20.183 I mean, we were, but we realized, hey, we gotta figure something out. 00:05:20.273 --> 00:05:22.463 Because I'm seeing a shift in the culture. 00:05:22.553 --> 00:05:26.243 Uh, I'm seeing a shift in some things, but we're not getting enough change. 00:05:26.723 --> 00:05:34.553 And what they're doing academically to feel like it's gonna be fast enough and so to, to be able to pull something off where we can get change. 00:05:34.853 --> 00:05:38.873 So first of all, we just created urgency around why are we doing this? 00:05:38.963 --> 00:05:41.333 Like, what is at the heart of why we're doing this? 00:05:41.333 --> 00:05:42.473 It can't be the f. 00:05:43.163 --> 00:05:44.513 It can't be a score. 00:05:44.993 --> 00:05:48.773 Um, scores are results of things, but they're not your why. 00:05:48.863 --> 00:05:49.253 You know? 00:05:49.253 --> 00:05:50.243 I mean, it can't be your why. 00:05:50.543 --> 00:05:55.823 Our why had to be that we really wanted to give these kids every opportunity they could to be successful. 00:05:56.063 --> 00:05:57.923 If that's the case, what are we gonna have to do? 00:05:58.073 --> 00:06:02.603 Well, we're gonna have to do things that are hard for adults and right for kids. 00:06:02.903 --> 00:06:09.233 And so, um, basically we started with, you know, we've got to have tier one at grade level. 00:06:11.048 --> 00:06:11.888 End of sentence. 00:06:12.308 --> 00:06:19.088 How do you do that though, when you're at a school with an F, like, and the teachers are like, but they're like three grade levels behind. 00:06:19.088 --> 00:06:21.068 We don't, we don't know how to do that. 00:06:21.068 --> 00:06:28.268 And so, honestly, even now going in and working with schools that you know are priority schools or you know, that can have some struggles, we do with the exact same thing. 00:06:28.268 --> 00:06:30.218 And I say, guys, this is the problem. 00:06:30.488 --> 00:06:33.968 Tier one's gotta be at grade level, but how do you get to grade level if you don't? 00:06:34.643 --> 00:06:40.253 If they can't do grade level, um, and I just say this, then you're gonna have to shift your schedule. 00:06:40.493 --> 00:06:44.873 You're gonna have to find ways to do this so that you can teach at grade level. 00:06:45.353 --> 00:06:50.738 One of the things I find in most places is that when we're struggling, and this is what we were doing when we were struggling, I. 00:06:50.828 --> 00:06:56.918 Those third graders weren't seeing third grade content content, they were still seeing second grade content or first grade content. 00:06:57.068 --> 00:07:03.998 How can we expect them to be proficient if they've never seen it at the level that they're going to have to be able to perform at? 00:07:04.148 --> 00:07:10.868 So we made a commitment to that, that we're gonna shift our schedule so that we will teach grade level in tier one. 00:07:11.438 --> 00:07:13.328 And that was a big shift for us. 00:07:13.538 --> 00:07:14.678 So that was one shift. 00:07:14.678 --> 00:07:17.018 One was the commitment to grade level teaching in tier one. 00:07:17.893 --> 00:07:26.833 Jethro Jones: Okay, so why does that matter so much though that they see that grade level content go, go into the the reasons why 00:07:27.223 --> 00:07:28.093 that matters? 00:07:28.093 --> 00:07:36.703 Because people may be like, yeah, I get that, but if they're gonna fail every time they're exposed to it, then they're just gonna struggle continually. 00:07:36.703 --> 00:07:37.363 So why? 00:07:37.423 --> 00:07:38.773 Why make that a priority? 00:07:38.993 --> 00:07:41.543 Dr. Layne Dillard: if they've never seen it, I can promise you they can't do it. 00:07:41.813 --> 00:07:45.173 And so if we don't, we have, it's kind of like compounding interest. 00:07:45.593 --> 00:07:47.603 So every year they don't see grade level. 00:07:47.603 --> 00:07:53.363 The next year they're more, they're further behind than they were because now that fourth grade teacher's gonna get them and go, I. 00:07:54.128 --> 00:07:55.808 Now they don't know third grade level. 00:07:55.868 --> 00:07:57.578 We're not sure they know second grade level. 00:07:57.578 --> 00:08:00.068 And then the fourth grade teacher's going, well, I'm gonna teach down. 00:08:00.128 --> 00:08:02.708 And every year we get this cyclical problem. 00:08:02.918 --> 00:08:07.208 I think it starts out where you think, oh, I'm just gonna fill in some skill gaps from last year. 00:08:07.928 --> 00:08:09.818 Then you never get to this year, you know? 00:08:09.818 --> 00:08:14.378 And so you've gotta have that commitment to how we gotta know where our kids are. 00:08:14.588 --> 00:08:18.278 We've gotta start looking at data, like blood work and stop looking at it personally. 00:08:18.548 --> 00:08:20.798 We've gotta start looking at it like, what are we doing right? 00:08:21.008 --> 00:08:24.038 And what are we doing that we need to change? 00:08:24.428 --> 00:08:28.328 Um, and it's not personal, it's just, it's just, it is what it is. 00:08:28.328 --> 00:08:34.688 And so we started literally looking at each piece where we could, we could get down to that little nitty gritty and say. 00:08:35.078 --> 00:08:36.788 Okay, these are our kids who can't do this. 00:08:36.788 --> 00:08:38.078 These are our kids who can't do this. 00:08:38.078 --> 00:08:39.398 These are our kids who can't do this. 00:08:39.578 --> 00:08:40.748 These are our ones who can. 00:08:40.958 --> 00:08:50.108 And instead of trying in every room to fix that, we started taking those kids that had common issues and putting them together for a portion of the day, like for 30 minutes every day. 00:08:50.588 --> 00:08:52.718 Well, now I can cross grade levels, you know? 00:08:52.718 --> 00:08:55.358 Now I can fill gaps across a grade level span. 00:08:55.478 --> 00:08:59.378 And I'm not just looking at one teacher trying to figure out how am I gonna do this in my classroom? 00:09:00.128 --> 00:09:00.488 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:09:00.548 --> 00:09:10.208 'cause it's nearly impossible when you've got five different groups of kids for you as the teacher to meet all of their individual needs and, and that's the reality. 00:09:10.877 --> 00:09:16.967 So you said something that you, that you, you probably say many times, look at data like 00:09:16.967 --> 00:09:18.977 blood work, not like personal data. 00:09:18.977 --> 00:09:19.787 What does that mean to 00:09:20.057 --> 00:09:21.227 Dr. Layne Dillard: what it means to me is. 00:09:22.592 --> 00:09:25.802 Data can feel like we're blaming people for things. 00:09:26.042 --> 00:09:32.192 Um, data can feel, I, I think data can be used like a weapon and when it is, teachers are not embracing it. 00:09:32.492 --> 00:09:41.222 I mean, no one is, you know, but when we look at it like this is feedback, this is just feedback on how we're doing what we're doing and are our kids learning. 00:09:41.882 --> 00:09:44.042 So we look, I look at blood work like feedback. 00:09:44.042 --> 00:09:45.212 I go get my blood work done. 00:09:45.212 --> 00:09:46.622 I don't want my doctor to say. 00:09:47.012 --> 00:09:52.742 I didn't wanna hurt her feelings, so I just didn't tell her this, you know, no, please tell me what I need to do. 00:09:52.742 --> 00:09:55.412 Now I may not do it, but that's on me, you know? 00:09:55.592 --> 00:09:59.522 Um, but I need you to tell me the truth so that we can come up with a plan. 00:09:59.912 --> 00:10:02.582 And so that was the way we approached data. 00:10:02.642 --> 00:10:05.522 It was never, and you know, I sometimes, we'll. 00:10:05.792 --> 00:10:06.992 Even still going to a school. 00:10:06.992 --> 00:10:11.282 I was in a school not long ago and I heard an administrator say, this is not all your fault. 00:10:11.462 --> 00:10:14.672 I'm thinking, oh, I mean talking to teachers, it's my fault too. 00:10:14.672 --> 00:10:17.192 She said, oh, I know that sound made her feel better. 00:10:17.222 --> 00:10:18.512 'cause she said, Hey, it's not just your fault. 00:10:18.512 --> 00:10:19.022 It's my fault too. 00:10:19.022 --> 00:10:19.412 How about this? 00:10:19.412 --> 00:10:20.192 It's nobody's fault. 00:10:20.462 --> 00:10:21.362 It is what it is. 00:10:21.782 --> 00:10:23.822 I mean, like who knows who's fault it is. 00:10:23.822 --> 00:10:25.802 I mean, if we're gonna start doing like, whose fault is it? 00:10:25.802 --> 00:10:26.912 We gotta go all the way back to birth. 00:10:26.942 --> 00:10:29.012 I mean like, I dunno whose fault this is. 00:10:29.222 --> 00:10:30.812 It doesn't matter whose fault it is. 00:10:30.932 --> 00:10:31.592 How about this? 00:10:31.712 --> 00:10:33.902 We're just gonna look at this like it's not a fault. 00:10:33.932 --> 00:10:34.982 It's not a blame. 00:10:35.597 --> 00:10:38.717 It is literally what do we need to do to get this better? 00:10:39.107 --> 00:10:43.817 And not only that, you've got kids that even in a struggling environment, are doing well. 00:10:44.792 --> 00:10:49.172 I mean, so you don't need to do this same, you need to take those and we need to be pushing those kids. 00:10:49.172 --> 00:10:51.842 You cannot just focus on the kids that are struggling. 00:10:52.052 --> 00:10:56.762 You've gotta take those kids that are at grade level or above, and you may not even have many, or you may have more than you think you do. 00:10:57.062 --> 00:10:59.312 Depends on how you're using your data and say, Hey, you know what? 00:10:59.312 --> 00:11:00.722 I'm pushing you even further. 00:11:01.112 --> 00:11:02.612 And so everybody's moving. 00:11:02.612 --> 00:11:10.682 It's not just interventions, it's true differentiation, like in my opinion, true differentiation is I'm taking this standard. 00:11:11.042 --> 00:11:17.012 I'm helping you below, or I'm pushing you beyond, but I'm not watering things down or making it harder. 00:11:17.042 --> 00:11:17.522 You know what I'm saying? 00:11:17.522 --> 00:11:20.762 Like, I'm actually like spiraling to different parts within it. 00:11:20.762 --> 00:11:23.342 So that's what I mean by the blood work piece. 00:11:23.342 --> 00:11:24.392 It's just not personal. 00:11:24.392 --> 00:11:28.472 We've got to look at what we can do to fix things or make it, or, or, or continue doing what we're doing. 00:11:29.502 --> 00:11:33.017 Jethro Jones: Yeah, I, I really like that and I think it's an appropriate way to look at it. 00:11:33.077 --> 00:11:39.342 And the other aspect of that is that when you, when you see kids who are, are. 00:11:40.052 --> 00:11:42.062 Down below where they should be. 00:11:42.542 --> 00:11:50.462 It's, it's really easy for you to, uh, to, to make excuses or to say, this is why these things aren't happening. 00:11:50.852 --> 00:12:00.152 But more important than that is when you are okay with it, you can start adjusting how you're doing things so that you are taking. 00:12:01.177 --> 00:12:07.412 You, you're taking the kids out of a environment where they're not going to succeed and you're putting them in a place where they can succeed. 00:12:07.772 --> 00:12:13.892 And, and when you're teaching, when tier one is at grade level, then you can say, here are the gaps. 00:12:14.162 --> 00:12:20.612 And we can identify 'em and know who is missing what, and then we can put kids in the right place to get that support. 00:12:21.032 --> 00:12:21.692 And it. 00:12:22.997 --> 00:12:23.837 It's all hands on 00:12:23.837 --> 00:12:24.317 deck. 00:12:24.527 --> 00:12:28.247 You know it, it's not like, okay, here's our third graders. 00:12:28.247 --> 00:12:29.267 All right, third grade team. 00:12:29.267 --> 00:12:30.947 You're the only ones who are allowed to work with 00:12:30.947 --> 00:12:31.577 these kids. 00:12:32.207 --> 00:12:33.437 That is so crazy. 00:12:33.437 --> 00:12:41.177 Why don't we put the kids who need help with the person who is best positioned to actually help them and, and maybe it's a first grade skill. 00:12:41.177 --> 00:12:43.817 We go put 'em with the first grade teacher and give them. 00:12:44.132 --> 00:12:52.682 That exposure, again, on a very specific thing, you can actually then tell how well they are achieving that specific thing or not. 00:12:52.772 --> 00:12:57.602 And, and, and, and talk a little bit more about that and what your experience with that has been. 00:12:57.692 --> 00:13:06.932 Dr. Layne Dillard: So, you know, one of the things that I would hear is, well, when you put like a, 'cause I was at that time, um, in a a K six, pre-K six environment. 00:13:06.932 --> 00:13:07.982 So we went through sixth grade. 00:13:08.372 --> 00:13:12.272 Um, what happens when you put a, a. 00:13:12.947 --> 00:13:15.077 Third, a fourth grader and a sixth grader together. 00:13:15.077 --> 00:13:15.917 Or a third grader. 00:13:15.917 --> 00:13:16.997 And a first grader together. 00:13:16.997 --> 00:13:18.557 I mean, how does this work? 00:13:18.767 --> 00:13:21.827 Do they think I, I said, well, let me tell you what is interesting about this. 00:13:22.697 --> 00:13:29.027 When you view teaching like we're teaching a skill and not like it's remediation. 00:13:30.167 --> 00:13:31.427 You've gotta think for a minute. 00:13:31.457 --> 00:13:38.657 I've got a kid who is a first grader who may have just jumped into a third grade world, like with, with third graders. 00:13:38.957 --> 00:13:43.517 Those third graders may be behind, but they're with this super smart first grader. 00:13:43.607 --> 00:13:46.007 These kids just think I'm in the smart group. 00:13:46.157 --> 00:13:47.837 I mean, they don't even know. 00:13:47.987 --> 00:13:54.047 They just, they cannot figure out because you've got the highs in one group with the lows of another. 00:13:54.347 --> 00:13:56.747 But when we crisscross things and we start shifting. 00:13:57.107 --> 00:13:58.547 It starts blending together. 00:13:58.547 --> 00:14:03.497 So for one, it's, it's acceleration while at the exact same time for the other, it's remediation. 00:14:03.677 --> 00:14:06.797 So it's no longer I'm just helping these kids who can't do this. 00:14:07.547 --> 00:14:09.647 It we're intervening at their level. 00:14:09.647 --> 00:14:14.237 Stop thinking of intervention as intervention brings somebody up. 00:14:14.507 --> 00:14:15.797 I mean, like it's behind. 00:14:16.007 --> 00:14:18.827 Intervention may be intervening to make you even better, you know? 00:14:18.827 --> 00:14:20.837 So, I mean, intervention can be both sides. 00:14:21.912 --> 00:14:25.422 Jethro Jones: Yeah, and and I appreciate that approach also because that is. 00:14:26.012 --> 00:14:30.752 That is a very powerful way for everybody because then you're not cutting anybody out. 00:14:30.752 --> 00:14:32.492 You're not making people feel dumb. 00:14:32.552 --> 00:14:42.482 And I, I was in a school where we had, uh, kids who, who we had an afterschool program and the afterschool program and the summer school program was for the kids who were behind 00:14:42.482 --> 00:14:43.022 grade level. 00:14:43.472 --> 00:14:46.502 So these kids got told all day long, you're dumb. 00:14:46.772 --> 00:14:50.222 And then we had 'em stay after school and they got told they were dumb again. 00:14:50.522 --> 00:14:53.372 And then we had 'em come in the summer where they got told they were dumb again. 00:14:53.852 --> 00:14:54.362 They don't 00:14:54.362 --> 00:14:55.412 wanna succeed. 00:14:55.412 --> 00:14:56.342 They don't want to progress. 00:14:56.342 --> 00:15:00.512 They don't believe that they can because we've set them up for failure in that approach. 00:15:01.112 --> 00:15:03.602 And, and it's not helpful to anybody. 00:15:03.722 --> 00:15:06.062 And it is just, it is only destructive. 00:15:06.062 --> 00:15:08.972 And it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be that way. 00:15:08.972 --> 00:15:10.712 And that's, that's an area where. 00:15:11.792 --> 00:15:25.052 You know, if, if you're like, all right, these kids don't know how to do phonemic segmentation, anybody who doesn't know how to do phonemic segmentation is getting this support, whether they are in kindergarten or they're in sixth grade or even 12th grade. 00:15:25.472 --> 00:15:36.572 This is the process that we're going through to help them, that is incredibly worthwhile and valuable to support them in that discreet skill, and, and there's no shame involved in that because. 00:15:36.932 --> 00:15:38.402 It doesn't matter when you don't know how to do that. 00:15:38.402 --> 00:15:40.862 When you don't know how to do that, then you need to learn 00:15:41.462 --> 00:15:42.842 and it can be direct, 00:15:42.992 --> 00:15:43.202 Dr. Layne Dillard: Yeah. 00:15:43.202 --> 00:15:46.952 And especially like when you start looking at math, math is so interesting. 00:15:46.982 --> 00:15:50.582 I mean, it's such a different process than reading, uh, in my opinion. 00:15:50.582 --> 00:15:55.292 Now I've got an ELA background, actually, I'm secondary by trade, so I taught high school, middle school. 00:15:55.292 --> 00:15:56.552 I mean, that's, that's what I did. 00:15:56.972 --> 00:16:00.482 And, but I, and I've led that level, but I've led elementary too. 00:16:00.482 --> 00:16:03.032 And I absolutely love leading elementary, but I can tell you. 00:16:03.647 --> 00:16:04.817 Math is just different. 00:16:05.237 --> 00:16:14.267 Uh, math has these skills that if I fill one gap, I may have then filled a hole that that allowed me to jump up three or four notches. 00:16:14.477 --> 00:16:19.007 Like if they just don't understand fractions and how to manipulate fractions. 00:16:19.007 --> 00:16:29.117 Think about how that's affecting algebra and how it's affecting geometry and how it affects all of our upper level, upper level maths when it's a low level math skill. 00:16:30.572 --> 00:16:42.272 But I'm gonna tell you, if we don't go back and fix that, if that does not get addressed, that child is going to struggle all the way through high math when all they really may have been missing was one skill. 00:16:42.602 --> 00:16:47.642 So when we can find those skills, it's, I say it's like magic, but it kind of is. 00:16:47.642 --> 00:16:52.682 It's like, oh my goodness, we filled a gap and it filled four other gaps. 00:16:52.682 --> 00:16:54.392 I mean, it, it's just amazing. 00:16:54.392 --> 00:16:56.972 And so when you can get to that real granular level. 00:16:56.972 --> 00:17:00.542 But you've gotta know your data to do that, you've gotta really know your kid. 00:17:00.542 --> 00:17:05.642 You've got to look at this stuff, and you're gonna have to sit down and go, okay, who is it that's missing this skill? 00:17:06.137 --> 00:17:10.007 And then you've gotta have that time to, you've gotta figure out how, how, how to do this. 00:17:10.007 --> 00:17:12.647 And so, um, small schools, it looks one way. 00:17:12.707 --> 00:17:15.347 Large schools, it looks another, but everybody can do it. 00:17:15.347 --> 00:17:20.597 It's just gonna, like, I just say, it's kinda like a skeleton, you know, like if you, if you find a skeleton, we can't tell who it is. 00:17:20.597 --> 00:17:26.022 I mean, they, it, I mean they all kind of look the same, but when you flesh them out, they look different. 00:17:26.557 --> 00:17:30.367 There's a skeleton to this and that skeleton's gonna look the same. 00:17:30.427 --> 00:17:38.017 You know, like, I mean, so now you flesh it out for, do you have 14 sections of fourth grade or do you have one section of fourth grade? 00:17:38.017 --> 00:17:38.827 I mean, it doesn't matter. 00:17:38.827 --> 00:17:41.137 You've gotta flesh that thing out for what works for your school. 00:17:42.287 --> 00:17:42.797 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:17:42.857 --> 00:17:49.697 Boy, I, I love that analogy of your data's like skeleton that really, uh. 00:17:50.372 --> 00:17:53.252 We all share that it's the same between all of us. 00:17:53.282 --> 00:17:59.282 And once those building blocks are in place, then, then we can add in the unique features on top of that. 00:17:59.522 --> 00:18:00.242 I like that. 00:18:00.512 --> 00:18:01.682 I've never heard of it that way. 00:18:01.682 --> 00:18:03.302 So that's, that's good. 00:18:03.542 --> 00:18:10.112 Um, alright, so surely there must have been more than just looking at your why and having tier one at grade level. 00:18:10.112 --> 00:18:11.432 What else went into this? 00:18:13.112 --> 00:18:19.832 Dr. Layne Dillard: I'm gonna tell you that, um, just turning the school around, you know, going from an F to a B is a journey. 00:18:19.892 --> 00:18:26.852 And you know, we were talking a while ago just about, you know, um, you said, you know, really you were talking about ownership. 00:18:26.882 --> 00:18:28.922 I mean, you know, everybody has to own this. 00:18:29.372 --> 00:18:35.912 And so that was one of our collective things is if we wanna turn this around, I think we're gonna have to all own this place. 00:18:36.242 --> 00:18:38.852 We're gonna have to own our success, and we're gonna have to own our failure. 00:18:39.332 --> 00:18:40.622 We're gonna have to just own it. 00:18:40.622 --> 00:18:43.772 And you know, I hear a lot of people talk about buy-in and I'm like, I really don't want buy-in. 00:18:43.802 --> 00:18:44.672 I don't want you to rent. 00:18:44.672 --> 00:18:47.462 I want you to own, I mean, I want you to say, this is mine. 00:18:47.492 --> 00:18:47.912 Okay. 00:18:47.912 --> 00:18:49.562 This is, everyone owns this. 00:18:49.892 --> 00:18:52.382 So we bought into that ownership piece of that. 00:18:52.442 --> 00:18:54.332 Um, the vision was a big piece of it. 00:18:54.752 --> 00:19:00.842 Um, but I'm gonna say engaged instruction, really engaging students in instruction, not just. 00:19:01.017 --> 00:19:08.157 That ritualistic engagement where they're sitting there, but really saying, we are going to commit to what does good instruction look like? 00:19:08.157 --> 00:19:09.987 What does high quality instruction look like? 00:19:10.317 --> 00:19:16.527 How can we engage our students and um, and how can we have them in these lessons so that. 00:19:17.282 --> 00:19:23.372 Our goal every day and we would, you know, I wanna know what you're gonna do today that makes them where they cannot wait to get back tomorrow. 00:19:23.912 --> 00:19:25.562 And so that fixes attendance. 00:19:25.862 --> 00:19:30.692 You know, we start changing attendance when they can't wait to come back to school because they're loving what we're doing. 00:19:30.692 --> 00:19:38.042 So we really made these commitments to just high quality lessons and high quality engagement and um, and helping each other. 00:19:38.042 --> 00:19:41.162 So we had this very open door policy at school. 00:19:41.162 --> 00:19:46.142 Like if I have a teacher who's fantastic at teaching math, I want everybody. 00:19:46.422 --> 00:19:49.572 To be able to go in and watch her teach math. 00:19:49.812 --> 00:19:54.702 You know, I'm gonna find my bright spots in this building and we're gonna replicate those bright spots. 00:19:55.062 --> 00:19:59.472 Um, yeah, and that's, that's literally like, what, what, what we did. 00:19:59.472 --> 00:20:04.422 And then not only would they go watch this teacher teach, I would say, okay, here's what I want you to do. 00:20:04.632 --> 00:20:08.142 I want you to plan, I want this teacher to come teach your math class 00:20:08.772 --> 00:20:10.842 so that, because sometimes we think. 00:20:11.807 --> 00:20:16.097 Well, it looks like that in their class, but that's not what my kids act like, you know, that's not what my kids are like. 00:20:16.097 --> 00:20:21.677 But when you see them bring that same lesson into that other room, you realize, hey, this does work. 00:20:21.737 --> 00:20:23.357 You know, what they're doing actually works. 00:20:23.357 --> 00:20:29.087 So just really just being collective and owning and it never, never feeling like somebody was the queen bee. 00:20:29.297 --> 00:20:32.027 There's no queen bees here we are, we're all on the same team. 00:20:32.027 --> 00:20:33.167 We all wear a jersey. 00:20:33.497 --> 00:20:35.927 Um, and we're all here for the same reason. 00:20:35.927 --> 00:20:37.787 And that's so that every single kid here. 00:20:38.147 --> 00:20:41.837 Can reach their absolute full potential regardless of what barriers they have. 00:20:41.957 --> 00:20:45.137 And I'm just gonna tell you, they bought into it. 00:20:45.137 --> 00:20:47.357 And when they bought into it, they owned it. 00:20:47.357 --> 00:20:51.287 And that's what I was waiting on, is I want you to own this thing, own this process. 00:20:51.287 --> 00:20:56.447 And so that was really the next piece was just the instructional piece, like the engaged instruction. 00:20:57.257 --> 00:20:57.677 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:20:58.067 --> 00:21:02.927 Well, and that's exactly what has to happen is they, they have to see that they are. 00:21:04.037 --> 00:21:08.507 Part of the solution, even if they don't see that they're part of the problem, you know? 00:21:08.537 --> 00:21:17.117 And, and if they can recognize that, if they can see I have an impact here, then they can make amazing things happen. 00:21:17.417 --> 00:21:25.967 But if they feel like it's outta their hands or out of their control, or, you know, we can't fight this generational poverty, there's just, you know, no way to overcome it. 00:21:26.417 --> 00:21:31.277 It, uh, it just makes it really difficult for us to, um, to do that. 00:21:31.277 --> 00:21:37.187 And so, you know, I, I love that approach of, of having everybody know that they are part of the same team. 00:21:37.187 --> 00:21:42.287 We're all together and, you know, we, we, do this together. 00:21:42.377 --> 00:21:51.797 And like, even if one of us is great, we still have to be, we have to be awesome, uh, each one of us and, and, and do it together. 00:21:51.797 --> 00:21:54.137 And yeah, I think that's really powerful. 00:21:55.734 --> 00:22:03.144 So my last question is what, what is, we've talked about a lot of stuff and we didn't even barely scratch the surface. 00:22:03.174 --> 00:22:05.364 That's, that's the nature of short podcasts. 00:22:05.364 --> 00:22:05.604 Right? 00:22:06.144 --> 00:22:13.429 Um, so what is one thing that someone can do this week to be a Transformative leader like you Lane. 00:22:15.624 --> 00:22:17.334 Dr. Layne Dillard: I didn't even get into culture really. 00:22:17.334 --> 00:22:19.464 I mean, I guess everything I mentioned was culture, because 00:22:19.464 --> 00:22:20.364 it is a culture. 00:22:20.364 --> 00:22:21.474 It is culture. 00:22:21.474 --> 00:22:24.114 but but I'm just gonna say this. 00:22:24.504 --> 00:22:34.374 Um, I think the one thing that they could do, if, if there was one thing I could say today, do this or tomorrow do this, get a clipboard out and go down your halls. 00:22:35.244 --> 00:22:37.854 And, and, and I don't want it to be in an evaluative way. 00:22:37.944 --> 00:22:39.234 I don't want, you're not evaluating. 00:22:39.294 --> 00:22:41.724 I want you to look for everything in your building that's going right. 00:22:42.309 --> 00:22:44.529 Because we tend to look at things that go wrong. 00:22:44.529 --> 00:22:45.939 It is just the nature. 00:22:45.969 --> 00:22:47.319 We, we just go, well, that's not right. 00:22:47.319 --> 00:23:00.789 And that, um, I mean, we see those things, but I really want you to walk down those halls and really just be like authentic about, just, just be authentic and go out there and say, I'm going to find everything that's right. 00:23:01.209 --> 00:23:05.079 And when you go down there, go with that clipboard and everything you saw, that was good. 00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:08.559 Write it down and then I want you to celebrate it. 00:23:08.859 --> 00:23:11.889 Even if it is the tiniest thing, like even if it's small. 00:23:11.919 --> 00:23:18.579 'cause I'm gonna tell you when you're struggling, when we had that 51, I had to stretch to find things for us to celebrate. 00:23:19.149 --> 00:23:21.879 But there are always things to celebrate, you know? 00:23:21.879 --> 00:23:24.369 I mean, there are, and I don't mean celebrate, I don't mean having a party. 00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:27.309 I mean, send them an email, send them a text. 00:23:27.309 --> 00:23:27.789 Literally. 00:23:27.849 --> 00:23:32.049 I want you to know I walked by your room today and I was so excited when I saw this. 00:23:32.259 --> 00:23:33.759 Now that's that personal piece. 00:23:34.104 --> 00:23:36.864 That you do with the teacher and they need to get that from you. 00:23:37.044 --> 00:23:41.454 Um, that's the personal thing you're gonna do with the custodian when you say, you're making our school look so great. 00:23:41.694 --> 00:23:43.614 Thank you so much for the time you spent. 00:23:43.644 --> 00:23:45.924 When I walk in, you're, you're our first impression. 00:23:46.284 --> 00:23:49.494 You know, they need that personal, but they also need to hear it said out loud. 00:23:49.764 --> 00:23:51.414 Other people need to hear that. 00:23:51.864 --> 00:24:01.014 And I think when you start doing those things, when you start looking for what's going right, you can start replicating good things and then you've just created that as the incentive. 00:24:01.404 --> 00:24:02.604 Why do I wanna do this? 00:24:02.604 --> 00:24:05.004 Because it's making the school better, you know? 00:24:05.004 --> 00:24:12.534 And when you see kids doing things that are right, that same thing for them, you know, like we're not just looking for the adults, what they're doing well in the building, we're looking for the kids too. 00:24:12.534 --> 00:24:16.794 So I would just say get outta clipboard and look for the things that are going right and celebrate that stuff. 00:24:17.964 --> 00:24:18.864 Jethro Jones: Oh, I love it. 00:24:18.894 --> 00:24:19.914 I think that's so good. 00:24:20.484 --> 00:24:25.854 Literally getting out a clipboard and writing down the things, uh, would be huge. 00:24:25.869 --> 00:24:28.734 And so if you have not done that, get out there and do it. 00:24:28.764 --> 00:24:32.574 That is totally a worthwhile thing to do, and hopefully I. 00:24:32.764 --> 00:24:41.074 You fill out multiple pages, and if you don't, wherever you're at, go notice, recognize, acknowledge, and and move on with that. 00:24:41.074 --> 00:24:41.704 That's great. 00:24:42.034 --> 00:24:45.934 Uh, Elaine, how should people get in touch with you and learn more about the work you do? 00:24:46.514 --> 00:24:49.454 Dr. Layne Dillard: Um, well, they can, um, reach out to me on LinkedIn. 00:24:49.454 --> 00:24:50.654 I'm pretty active on there. 00:24:50.654 --> 00:24:54.914 I do, um, put a lot of, I try to put articles out and things that might actually help principals and leaders. 00:24:55.094 --> 00:24:56.804 So I'm there also. 00:24:56.834 --> 00:24:59.414 Um, my website is Lane, L-A-Y-N-E. 00:24:59.444 --> 00:25:04.874 Have a y in my name, uh, lane Dillard, uh, uh.com so they can find me there too. 00:25:04.874 --> 00:25:05.804 So Lane dot, I'm sorry. 00:25:05.804 --> 00:25:06.914 Yeah, lane dealer.com. 00:25:06.914 --> 00:25:09.884 Sometimes it's just Lane Dillard and I can't remember which one it is, but I think that's it. 00:25:09.884 --> 00:25:11.144 So yeah, those are great ways. 00:25:11.609 --> 00:25:12.179 To reach 00:25:12.294 --> 00:25:15.504 Jethro Jones: Uh, lane dillard.com is the right website. 00:25:16.134 --> 00:25:19.344 Um, so, uh, please do check her out. 00:25:19.434 --> 00:25:27.264 Uh, I've got links to all of her, uh, information, including the lead framework article on LinkedIn, which is fantastic. 00:25:27.264 --> 00:25:28.314 You should definitely go read it. 00:25:28.704 --> 00:25:32.034 Um, you can find those show notes at Transformative principle.org. 00:25:32.364 --> 00:25:33.264 And Lane. 00:25:33.324 --> 00:25:35.424 Thank you so much for being part of Transformative 00:25:35.609 --> 00:25:36.629 Dr. Layne Dillard: Thank you for asking me. 00:25:36.629 --> 00:25:37.169 I had a ball. 00:25:37.169 --> 00:25:37.589 Thank you. 00:25:37.769 --> 00:25:38.429 Thank you, Jethro.